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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests, and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station, it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and we have Ava Kaplan. I are a producer with us this evening and Sam and Adams standing by the phone. It's Sunday, May twenty fourth. Happy Memorial Day weekend. Everyone, guess what? We have A stack night of headlines. The viral quote egg Lady of the Alex Murda trial reveals her identity amid jury tampering allegations, plus major updates in the criminal investigation into former Prince Andrew and three new alleged Epstein conspirators are identified. Plus a tragic apparent murder suicide of an elderly couple who were the target of a scammer opposing to be Tom sell It. Remember Tom Selleck of Magnum p I. A friend of Lynnette Hooker, the missing mom and wife in the Bahamas, has a friend who has spoken that about Brian's alleged unusual behavior. Ladies, did you have a good weekend so far? I did.
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Speaker 3: It's so hot where I live. I live in Las Vegas. It is it's like the surface of the sun. I can't watch.
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Speaker 2: Look at me. I look like I'm naked right now. Huh, you do look topless. It's a funny. It's a fun thing. Listen, give those shoulders a break. It is so hot. How hot is it?
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Speaker 3: It's probably only like ninety three, but I'm very sensitive to the heat.
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Speaker 2: So I'm being a baby. And I'll tell you that. In Los Angeles. There's so much happening right now with that potential disaster in Orange County. We're following it so closely. If there are any new developments, of course, we will be letting you know. But it seems as though things are heading in the positive right direction.
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Speaker 3: So scary in Garden Grove, right, I think that's right. We took this trip to god and Grove sublind I love it.
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Speaker 2: Okay, Now, how was your weekend, Stephanie so far? Listen? It is still full swing.
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Speaker 4: You know.
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Speaker 2: I am claiming full weekend. So tomorrow we will be Memorial daying. I don't know what that involves here in Nashville. There might be a parade involved in I don't know, brunch, what do you guys think anyone is welcome to come? Oh on my way, get me out of this heat for a minute, fair enough. By the way, in case we go any further, body is going to be a crime con this upcoming weekend, so let's make sure if you are planning on being there, that you go find her. And I believe Courtney Armstrong and Taha are heading that way as well. So much revelee to be had. We will of course be jealous us Ava and I and Adam and Sam and listen. If you want to join us live, please do eight A eight three one crime. We'd love to hear from you, or you could always leave us a talk back. In fact, let's go to one now.
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Speaker 5: I'm just thinking about the Alex Murdaw trial you guys are talking about in the retrial, and I'm wondering if there's any world in where he has a bench trial as opposed to a jury trial because of this insurmountable job of trying to find an impartial jury. Just the thought, I don't know if that's even a thing.
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Speaker 3: Gosh, cricket, that's a really good question, right, Ken, So a bench trial? What is a bench trial? The bench trials where the judge decides, right, the judge decides guilt or innocence, rather than a jury, right, And you know, everybody in the United States is afforded to be tried in front of a jury of your peers. It is up to the defend din't to determine if they want a bench trial or not, not the judge. So what do they do if they can't find a jury? Can they force a bench trial? I don't think so, because that is a violation of your sixth Amendment.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a jury of your peers is sort of the end goal unless it's elected. To my understanding, at least, and again, not having a jury trial is also a scary thing. You're looking at one person's decision. So at least when you have multiple people weighing in, that could be you know, important, frankly, But if only the judge is deciding, that could also be really scary, quite frankly.
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Speaker 6: My understanding is that while you do, of course have a constitutional right you can ask for the judge jury in a criminal but yeah, the prosecutor and.
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Speaker 2: The judge, like they all have to be a.
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Speaker 3: You remember Kelly Fitzsimmons, the police officer who was accused of shooting another police officer. Yes, she asked for trial, remember, right, And she was the one who initiated that from you know, She's like, I'm going to give up this right, I want this to be a bench trial. And of course, you know, the judge ruled in her favor, so it actually worked out to her benefit.
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Speaker 6: But and in that documentary Crash, they also it was a bench trial that ended that case.
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Speaker 2: That's right, You're absolutely right.
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Speaker 3: So, I mean, it is certainly something that can happen, But I do believe it's something that the defense side has to like ask for and then of course the judge has to agree in the state, you know, and the prosecution has to agree as well. I don't think it's something that the judge can force on on Allen's worth at all. Yeah, but that's a really good question, I mean, because I don't know what the jury's going I don't know what they're going to do to find a jury for this case in South Carolina, like, and they can't move it to another state, you know, I don't know what they're.
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Speaker 2: Going to do. It's going to be really it's a real pressure point. And again, really it's just one of those cases that many people would assume he's very guilty. I mean, this was not a great look. That trial, the last time that Alex Murder went through, did not leave him in a good light. And many of us saw that trial so a you can't unsee the trial. You really can't unsee the many documentaries and the scripted show out on Hulu about this case. None of those versions of any of them that I've seen at least make Alex look like a great guy. If I'm his a defense attorney. Not that I'm suggesting this is a good thing, but if I was his defense attorney, this would be the pressure point that I would lean into.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, But at the same time, you are allowed to know the details of a case, even you know, to be selected as a jury member.
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Speaker 2: You just can't have any bias.
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Speaker 3: You can't just say, you know, I believe he's guilty or I I you know, I'm not going to be able to change my mind, because when they decide on guilt or innocence in the jury room, they have notes that they are, you know, allowed to take in things that they're allowed to look at. If that yet, if the evidence wasn't presented at trial, it's not something that they can.
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Speaker 2: Consider for guilt.
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Speaker 3: And you know, Drew void Dar they can eliminate people who are biased. You know, it's really gonna I don't know, this is really complicated. I'm tend to ramble because I get excited.
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Speaker 2: About this stuff.
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Speaker 6: No, it's interesting. And if you're just kind of catching up on this case. Alex Murda, he's the guy who's the really powerful attorney in South Carolina and he was convicted of murdering his wife Maggie and his son Paul in twenty twenty three. However, recently the South Carolina Supreme Court overturned that verdict, and that all goes back to something we've spoken a little bit about, which is the former clerk of the court, Becky Hill, who was assessed to have been putting undue pressure on the jury to get a guilty verdict, which is insane in total misconduct. Well, there's some new information. Did you guys know about the egg jur.
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Speaker 2: I do, and I'm desperate to talk to you about it. Yeah, let's I didn't hear about it till today. Yeah.
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Speaker 6: So the eggger now we all know as of today, her name Myrah Crosby. So she earned that nickname because immediately after being dismissed from the jury in twenty twenty three, at the trial for alleged misconduct, she asked the judge if she could a get her purse and b grab a dozen free range eggs that a fellow juror had brought in, which I think is kind of a riot. That was her priority in that moment.
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Speaker 2: Right right, those eggs, I want those sikes. Yeah, forget the murder trial.
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Speaker 6: So, but this is impactful because the recent retial orders, they allege that the kind of dirty clerk, Becky Hill, that she systematically targeted this egg ger, Bra Crosby, and she did it to secure a swift, unanimous guilty verdict. Apparently, Becky Hill, the court clerk, forged a Facebook post pretending to be the egg jurors estranged ex husband and saying that the juror was discussing the trial while drunk.
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Speaker 2: I mean, so Becky Hill is out of hand. Can we just discuss Becky Hill from one quick moment? So Becky Hill if this is accurate, right, which, by the way, any of the things that now Becky Hill has been accused of, like the book she wrote about the trial, that she should not have been spewing any information about. It's a really sacred position. You're in a courtroom. You're dealing with people who are, by the way, who have been through a lot number one, because they're witnessing and hearing really difficult things. To be a juror in a case like this is not easy. We're talking about a wife and a young son who's been murdered. You know, you're seeing details, you're hearing things. It can be very confusing, it can be very triggering. And Becky Hill, who's in charge of making sure the jury is in good hands, is the hands that's actually rocking this cradle. It's shocking, and again it's very important that we're discussing it and that she's getting a handslab. But what does that mean for justice for Alex's wife and kid.
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Speaker 6: Well, I think the new jury is going to be where whatever form of justice justice takes place.
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Speaker 2: I mean, okay, yeah, can we really really quickly?
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Speaker 3: So they're saying, the defense is saying Alex Murdle's defense is saying that Becky Hill basically created a Facebook profile in the name and the profile photo of the juror's ex husband and then made a Facebook post that she was discussing the trial with him while she was drinking. That's what they're alleging, and they use this The Supreme Court of South Carolina used this information to determine whether or not Alex Murdall was going to receive a new trial, and they did determine that.
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Speaker 2: It's a brazen lack of judgment. I mean, think about it. How much time does it take to actually your Becky, let's just go for one quick moment. You're Becky Hill, You're in charge of making sure all of the needs of this jury is met, and you go ahead and create a fake profile on social media. How much time and energy does that alone take? Like she's a little bit off her rocker. So, unfortunately, despite the fact that Alex Murder may have murdered his wife and son, it is completely justified that he gets a new jury based on this flagrant behavior.
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Speaker 3: And apparently this juror was a little, you know, maybe up in the air about whether or not Alex murda was guilty or not and was targeted by Becky Hill, like Becky Hill is overly invested in Alex Murdaws.
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Speaker 2: Why would that baby? You think that's.
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Speaker 3: Crazy now, I mean you could say a lot of things, like maybe she was getting paid off by somebody, or she was somehow very resentful of him in some way. I mean, she works's, she works with the courts. He's a lawyer. Maybe there was something in their past, like some true altercation at the supermarket. I don't know, Like, why is she so invested? It's very weird to me, very weird.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think is there a reason that comes to mind? Again, we had talked about it, because you know, we've had a few talkbacks and a caller that was suggesting, hey, maybe she's being paid off, because again, the level by which she is behaving badly is pretty unprecedented. Again, if you work at the court, at least in my experience, you are so dedicated and devoted to justice. It is not an easy job. It's an under paid job. You were hearing and dealing with really difficult things on a daily basis. It's one of those jobs that you say, hats off, We're so proud of you because you're really serving your community. But Becky Hill is just throwing a jackknife into it and lighten the whole house on fire.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it was, and it's all speculation if it was a like a Robin Hood vigilante thing she was taking on, or.
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Speaker 2: If she's just I think I don't know.
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Speaker 6: She just this way, I said earlier, can you imagine being her, ex Like, if you're gonna go ahead and create fake profiles and do all this nonsense. So I don't know. But additional things she did body as you mentioned the Jurormira Crosby, she was hold out. She was having some doubt over missing murder weapons in the in the crime, and the cloak told her to quote forget about the guns. Oh yeah, insane, And then she went ahead and used a totally unverified rumor about this poor egg jur and said, hey, judge, the sheer has been discussing the case with a tenant of hers, And ten minutes later she was removed from the trial as.
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Speaker 2: She should have been. It's again, this is a weird, wild miscarriage of justice, and this is what we're dealing with. Somebody who may have committed a double homicide, or who has been found guilty of committing a double homicide unfair, would be a real danger to society, may be freed because of her poor behavior.
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Speaker 6: Wow, Becky behaving badly, Becky, So I know, right, So we'll see. The people are also fighting over this sealed files. Two parties want files that are sealed to be transparent. Mara Crosby, the juror, wants complete public transpace and see because her dismissal was so controversial, and Alex Murda's defense wants it too.
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Speaker 2: So we'll see. We'll keep you updated.
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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they're suing her civilly right, they want that. They want those files released because it's going to prove how meddling she was.
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Speaker 2: And those dang kids too, just like Scooby Doo.
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Speaker 4: Right.
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Speaker 2: Well, coming up next, will we.
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Speaker 3: Come back, We're going to get into some Epstein files and we're going to talk about a really tragic case out of California involving a scammer impersonating Tom Selleck.
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Speaker 2: Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. Happy Memorial Day weekend, everybody. We have Avias Zaplin, who is in the hot seat with us this evening. Taha is off of the night. We miss you, but Ava, we're so happy you're here. Plus of course we have Sam and Adam in the control room just waiting for your call eight eight eight three one crime. If you have a second or one away in we'd love to hear from you. Or again, you can keep those talkbacks coming. For the record, you guys leave the greatest talkbacks and dms, So just know that we're getting them and we love them. And keep it up, Keep it up, keep it up. So this Epstein saga continues, it doesn't appear that it's going away, although in some cases it does. I will speak for myself anecdotically, even on my algorithm within whatever I'm on Instagram, et cetera, which again is not major sourcing. But I used to be flooded with information. Now it feels like I'm getting zero. You have to actually really go to look for that. And I don't know is that by design? Is there something to that? But now that Thomas Massey is you know, looking at his final days, he of course being one of the main voices behind the release of the EPSTEIN files. You know, the question remains, who will be accountable, if anyone, and how is it possible that there has been no action you know overseas. Of course in the UK, Prince Andrew is coming under fire a bit. So we have a bit of an update tonight, Courtney. Do you want to fill us in absolutely?
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Speaker 6: And Andrew mount Batton Windsor, formerly known as Prince Andrew. He's been under investigation with regards to EPSTEIN for a long time and his name has come up in these millions of documents that came out through the Epstein Transparency Act. Well, there's been some new allegations that have come out and they span several decades. They involve multiple police sources all across the UK. So one thing that we knew about was that in twenty ten, while former Prince Andrew was as the UK Special Trade Envoy, he was leaking confidential government and trade reports to EPSTEIN.
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Speaker 2: Very bad, beyond bad.
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Speaker 6: What has just come out in sort of different Correspondents papers that came out between two thousand and one two thousand and two it revealed that Queen Elizabeth was very keen to secure her son's envoy role and confirmed theories that her maternal love sort of compromised her handling of his ties to Epstein potentially.
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Speaker 2: Oh wow, so she really did. Yeah, she really did say that, and she really looked the other way. Remember, even she some of her own money was actually part of, you know, her son's ability to have cash to get out of some of these crimes. I mean, so that's also a little bit of a pocket here. And it seems as though Prince Andrew got away with a lot of things, and it doesn't appear that he's going to always get away with anything anymore. So they are cracking down on him as they should, I guess. But why are we not seeing that here?
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Speaker 6: There's been such when hinting with a huge wink and a nod, I believe it's already had been let out that part of her monies went to Virginia Goufrey one of the victims.
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Speaker 2: Is that right, Stephanie, That's correct exactly. So just think about that following of the money. So this is the Queen of England, our beloved queen. I grew up in a home that just loves the Royals. I've seen all the weddings. I got up at the crack of whatever to watch Princess Diana's wedding. It was such a big deal. I watched Megan Markle's wedding, such a big deal. We take the Royals pretty seriously. To so hear that, you know, our beloved Queen kind of knew that there might be some shady deliverings with her son, and that some of her money, yeah, went to Virginia Gouffrey, who is the lead face. Of course, she's no longer with us because she took her life back in twenty twenty. But that's pretty explosive to quote you directly. That's a great point. It's explosive.
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Speaker 3: And you know you mentioned Virginia Gufay and that famous photo of them two together Andrew, you know, former Prince Andrew and Virginia Guffay when she was a lot younger. Obviously, it's very famous. Everybody has seen this photo. It's one of I mean, it kind of is legendary at this point, that's the two of them together.
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Speaker 2: He said it was fake. He said that photo was fake for years and years. Frankly, a decade he said that was fake, as did so many people. Whereas this evidence comes forward, it's always, oh, that was manufactured, that was something that was completely made up. That was ai oh a birthday book that has completely inappropriate things written by real important people to Jeffrey Epstein on his birthday. You all remember that book. Apparently it was all fake. It was fake. It was fake. Hey, guess what, it turns out it wasn't fake. That book.
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Speaker 6: By the way, I literally just made such a face to myself. How repugnant that book was, Like you said, these powerful leaders of states and countries doing dirty limericks and referencing just.
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Speaker 2: Say, dirty things and dirty pictures.
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Speaker 7: Yeah.
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Speaker 6: Dirty, I mean, shame shame on everyone who went after went into that book.
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Speaker 2: But there's a couple of other.
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Speaker 6: Things that have come out which were brand new to me about the former prints, and they were they involved sexual misconduct and human trafficking. So I want to be hyper clear that as far as our understanding, and these are coming from victims making their accounts, they have not yet been verified, but they have been submitted to the FBI. There's a child abuse claim that separate inquiries into a couple of different allegations, one back all the way to the eighties and another one from like nineteen ninety five to two thousand and per these unsealed FBI files, there was an anonymous victim who alleged the former prince struck them with a car and sexually assaulted them between the ages of six and eight's.
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Speaker 2: Let's just underscore that these are six and eight year olds. I mean, this is again that depravity is really hard to wrap your brain around. Hit them with a car.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, The claim is that they were hit by a car and they left the detail of that. The car hood ornament came off in their hand. Again, these are in the FBI files. We're sharing what has come out as news recently. Additionally, another email allegation accuses the former prince of being an accessory to the death of a woman who was sold into sex, slavery and torture. So that's a big allegation and the government and royal response. We all know King Charles stripped his brother Andrew of his title, but Parliament is considering legislation to formally remove the former prince from the line of succession.
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Speaker 3: Wow, that'll be very interesting if that happens. This is true Crime tonight we are on iHeartRadio.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Listen.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: This is a really heavy topic. If you want to weigh in, download the iHeartRadio up and just leave us a little talk back and we'll play it on the show, don't you guys. I don't know if what do you guys think about these allegations. I'd love to hear it. Will just give us a call and let us know. Eight eight eight thirty one crime. These allegations are pretty.
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Speaker 2: Intense.
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Speaker 3: I don't know the word to use for them outside of intense. They're saying that a woman that was sold into slavery and a sex ring, who, by the way, is an asset right at that point for the person who quote unquote owns her. They're saying that Prince William is an accessory to murder of that woman.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, dout. That's very very dark start. And by the way, even with Thomas Massey, as we spoke about at the top of the segment, again, these are names that just are not being set out loud because these are dangerous allegations. Number One, you know, to be a victim to speak out to say something about people that are very powerful and very litigious and also very scary. This specifically is speaking about murder. So yeah, it's not that easy to go to Capitol Hill and put your name on an allegation knowing that the people that you're going up against could not only destroy your entire life and frankly have destroyed so many, but also your reputation out the window. But now we're talking life and death stuff and threats against your family, threats against your being, and if any of this is true, this is far darker than I think any of us were prepared for. Thomas Massey has what seven months left in office, but it's quite possible that he might get loose lipped. And you know Marjorie Taylor Green, who you know spoke out and spoke against you know, her former boss. She really hasn't said too much about what she was aware of. But Thomas Massey still has a place at the table, so maybe there is something actionable still to come. Where is allegations against Leon Black, Jess Staley for example, You know, some of these names are forever being repeated on a cycle. They've gone and done interviews before, you know, the House Oversight Committee. To what end, nothing really seems to happen. Les Wexner.
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Speaker 3: You know, you said something that just kind of like tickled my brain a little bit. You said something like, the same names keep getting mentioned. Do you think at some point they are offering up like sacrificial lambs to keep everyone kind of distracted so that yes, you know, the outer circle or the inner circle I should stay stays protected. And that's why these three or four names keep getting.
00:26:18
Speaker 2: You know, in the new cycle interesting. There is a handful of men, specifically a handful of humans that have been not just alleged crimes or things that have been said about them, it's been said about them by so many Like how is there literally nothing actionable happening to somebody who's been accused of the level of things that some of these gentlemen have been accused of. It really does make it nerve wracking for any victim to come forward moving forward? Why would you nothing seems to happen.
00:26:50
Speaker 6: Well, that may be changing based on what just happened with the really brave testimony of Sarah Kellen. So she was a former distant to Epstein, and she has accused three previously unlinked men of wrongdoings. And this happened during the closed door testimony before the House Oversight Committee.
00:27:12
Speaker 2: So first of all, bravo Sarah Kellen, Yeah, big flat for sure.
00:27:18
Speaker 6: And James Comer, who's the committee chair, he called her interview the most substantive and productive to date and noted that these specific sexual abuse allegations were previously unknown to Congress.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: And keep in mind, this is somebody who's a tricky person also, so just to give some more context to that and make sure that we're sharing both sides of this. She was Jeffrey Epstein's assistant at some point, and allegedly she was also part of the grooming process that both she was a victim who then also victimized. This is something we've discussed here so much. You know, this cycle of abuse, it really does happen, and it happens very regularly. However, on its nose, it's easy for an outsider looking in to dismiss her testimony because she was an insider and had real access to information that she too allegedly acted on. So she's not a perfect person in this regard. However, her coming forward and speaking her truth I think will be one of the more monumental pieces of this case moving forward. Is she reinforcing some of the names that we've already heard. Yes, so we're seeing the same cycle of humans going through the process and through the process. And now that she's naming those three people, it's pretty groundbreaking, absolutely, because.
00:28:41
Speaker 6: All of the perpetrator's names have you know, unlike the survivors who were unredacted and had their information put out to the whole wide world, the perpetrators have not. But in this testimony, Sarah Kellen mentioned Fredrick Akai, who you guys are a hairdresser, yeah, addresser, And she testified that Fakai sexually assaulted her. This happened in the early two thousands, it was before she was employed by Ebstein, and files show that Epstein, I guess he liked to get his hair done because he spent thousands at the salon, and it seemed like they were buddy buddy, and that Frederick Krakai would request to repeatedly use Ebstein's apartments and rooms, and Ebstein boasted that he helped launch Faki's company.
00:29:31
Speaker 2: Which was a really big deal.
00:29:33
Speaker 6: So that's one name that none of us said, no one in Congress had heard.
00:29:38
Speaker 3: It seems like all these people somehow Jeffrey gets entangled with financially right in some capacity, whether he's investing or you know, maybe guiding them on investing into other people. He's kind of always got a grip on them somehow financially. And I think that when we talk about Jeffrey Epstein, we often mentioned blackmail and compromond and that might be part of it, you know, that he would entangle him themselves in his lie for some kind of control in some way, And.
00:30:10
Speaker 2: Just to offer some context to that, and I know we'll get to the other names after the break. Frederick, for Kai, was a very big deal, at least in New York City when I lived there. His salon was a big deal, Like this was the guy that had you know, the air quotes hairline of the century, Like he was famous in his field. We're need deep talking about epscene and some new revelations about some people who have been named by his former assistant in front of the House Oversight Committee. So Frederick Forkai, as we were just discussing, is one of those names. He is a renowned hair stylist and colorist and had a fancy salon that I used to go to in New York. The best color I ever had in my life. Was at the Frederick Forrachai hair salon and he had a whole beauty line and you know product, and this was the guy. So this is a name that was also not on anybody's radar. So welcome to the conversation. Frederick. He has not commented, but there are more people that are being brought into the conversation, Courtney tell us more.
00:31:17
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and by the way, Stephanie Year exactly right that Frederick Faki himself has not commented. However, a representative has category orically denied the claims and said that not only has he never abused anyone, he knew nothing of sex trafficker Ebstein's trafficking.
00:31:36
Speaker 2: So that is what is coming from Faki's camp.
00:31:40
Speaker 6: But two other names that Ebstein's former assistant mentioned in her testimony, So Sarah Kellen also said that the former mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine. Uh huh yeah, so she accused him of sexual assault and revealed that in twenty following Epstein's release from jail from sex crimes, by the way, this former mayor emailed him, quote, You're a great guy.
00:32:12
Speaker 2: Skirt skirt stop.
00:32:15
Speaker 3: So Jeffrey Epstein he's living in West Palm Beach. I believe in two thousand and eight, he makes this ACCTA deal with Acosta. He goes to like, you know, prison camp basically only at night to go to bed, and he's got like a day release for sex crimes. Right, he gets out. He gets out for these known sex crimes, and the mayor of Miami Beach emails him and he's like, you're a good dude.
00:32:44
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? That's right? I have to repeat it because I don't believe it too even just to bring bring it one step further. Jeffrey Epstein, during this time when he had been air quotes, serving time and in West Palm Beach, to your point, he would only sleep in jail at night, and during the day he was a free man to kind of wander and allegedly also abuse young girls. So allegations came forward. Do we discuss this, even as recently as last week, that even during that time that he was allegedly being charged and serving a sentence for the crimes he had committed, he was still wandering around able to still commit that exact same crime, which is shocking in and of itself, and the fact that that has continued for so long. By the way, where are the rest of the emails we have? You know, three million documents have been released allegedly, there's two and a half million more that are never going to see the light of day. Why why there? If you are innocent and your name is being associated with something that is not appropriate or that you had nothing to do with, the truth will set you free. Let the files out. But again, everything is getting pushed. Our algorithms are pushing this aside. We're not really hearing a ton about it in the press. It is certainly not anywhere in the mainstream media anymore. And I'm telling you, I am paying attention. We source this stuff in many different ways. It is not even easy to do that any longer. Even the air quotes left leaning media establishments. The lead is not Epstein any longer. It's almost as though there's a mandate that we're not allowed to talk about it. I think people, I'm surprised we're talking about it, and that in and of itself might be dangerous, But these names are being put out there. We would never want to accuse anybody of something that they didn't do. So again, these are allegedly allegedly allegedly allegations, but they're really serious and again, until some justice is seen. We've hundreds of women who have come out and their stories have been cooperated and still it's crickets. Wow.
00:34:56
Speaker 3: Okay, So the former mayor of Miami is like, a you know, you're a good dude. Let's chill. You know, I hope things come to an you know, a positive end for you moving forward.
00:35:08
Speaker 2: Take care. Wow. Yes, interesting, Yeah, so that's how his name came up.
00:35:13
Speaker 6: In addition, of course, in a paramount for the accusation that he indeed sexually assaulted Sarah Kellen. And then a few other tidbits was that this former mayor directed Ebstein in twenty thirteen on how to donate online, so many many years after he was a known convicted sex criminal. And also Gileene Maxwell, she called, she called Levine a very good friend, and he apparently is the one who introduced her to President Bill Clinton. And both Gileen Maxwell and this former mayor used to love trading a sexual joker too.
00:35:57
Speaker 2: I'm confused.
00:35:59
Speaker 3: I thought Gilaine was like dating somebody who knew the Clintons, and that's how she met them and that's why she was at the wedding. Why is it now that this Philip Levine Mayor introduced them Elaine?
00:36:15
Speaker 2: It's too much. Is it possible that Elaine Maxwell is lying or is not her story completely st It's possible. I think Elaine Maxwell is saying what she needs to say. Whoever, she needs to say it too in the moment. Right, So, some of these you know, dates are getting blurry. The how did I meet them exactly kind of blurry. And again some of this stuff was from yesteryear. But and the reality is these guys traveled in very specific circles Gilaine included. And let's remember Jeffrey Epstein, as we talked about earlier, was the number one honey potter. He was the guy that was blackmailing many be able to be able to get his agenda. Served That agenda was not only sex trafficking young girls, it was also political, it was financial. He was scamming banks, hand over fists. Let's remember Jess Staley, who's one of those names that again should be being held accountable, who headed up JP Morgan and let all of those red flags go away. You know how hard it is to make money in this life imagine this is a crew of people that are just making money hand over fist, break in every rule under the sun, and there is no accountability. We all have to pay our taxes. They don't have to worry about it. We have to pay our little fines if your check is laid or if you missed a payment, not if you're a Jess Staley and you run JP Morgan or Barkley's bank, which happened later and let these guys run rampant. So it's one believing the victims and two following the money. Who's the third person? Courtney Armstrong?
00:37:52
Speaker 6: Ooh, he is a French photographer, Patrick Demarcialier and Sarah Kellen, Epstein's former assistant.
00:38:02
Speaker 2: She textified that he exposed himself.
00:38:05
Speaker 6: To her and also that he was the one who originally introduced her to Epstein. And this is while he was scouting for Victoria's Secret models. So those that is the third name bodies fallen off our chair, listen and let's if you're while body's getting up. If you have any reaction to even the fact that new names are finally being revealed, we'd love to hear from you. This is true crime tonight. We're at eighty eight three one crime bodies are covered and covered.
00:38:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, Batty.
00:38:39
Speaker 3: I was just going to say, like, I remember being a younger woman and looking at these beautiful models walk the runway and being like jealous of them because they were so beautiful and thin and confident. And I'm not saying every one of them was a victim of anything, but it's it seems like there were many that were. And here I am. I have shame now that I was jealous of them, and it shouldn't shame. This was the industry that was targeted in so.
00:39:12
Speaker 2: It was no, it wasn't even an industry. It seems like it was an industry that was actually just a version of trafficking, Like this was part of the Yes, that's we've talked about it, right, So the you know Ford Modeling Agency, These are Gileen Ford. These are names that at least back in my day, this was the top of the top. And to your point, we all aspired to be like these beautiful women who were running the runways and wearing angel wings at the victorious Secret model competitions and this was all major stuff. So you think you can know or top model or whatever, the less wetster in Ohio who owns Victoria's secret. He is one of the main co contributors that's never been brought to justice. So how is that possible. Yes, there's this huge machine of the modeling in industry. We have this huge machine of the banking industry. Twenty banks have been indicted and have been brought into this. Have you guys been hearing about much about any of that? No?
00:40:11
Speaker 6: No, I mean I did when it happened and body you had mentioned earlier about.
00:40:16
Speaker 2: Yes, there has been less.
00:40:19
Speaker 6: News coming out information coming out about Epstein, And I think there can be many things true at once, and I do think one may be fatigue people simply when you hear day in day out about it is simply a fatigue and people move on with their daily lives, you know, listen until a testimony like this.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: So Sarah Kellen not good for Sarah. For Sarah, it was a lot of that was brave of her and hopefully there's some action because of it.
00:40:55
Speaker 7: Grab atacra Hi, guys, this is lastlie a listener Day one, huge fan. I'm so excited that you guys bring true crime on a daily basis. I just have a comment to make about the six year old in Virginia the shooting. I'm really glad that they dismissed the case against the vice principal. I just felt like, even though she was aware, they did do a bag search. And I have seen so many times on YouTube footage in school where students have absolutely thrown a fit if they tried to search their person, and I see teachers are very hesitant to search the children too. I mean, you just think of all the lawsuits that could come out of that as well. So I really felt like the mother went on the way to the school and the vice principal checked the bag. I just felt like she really had done the majority in her power to try and handle the situation anyway, Huge fans, Thanks ladies, love you.
00:42:01
Speaker 2: Oh we love you right back. That it was the best talkback. Yeah, I agree with her.
00:42:06
Speaker 3: I'm glad that, you know, the prince assistant principal, Ebity Parker was acquitted or the charges were dropped.
00:42:13
Speaker 2: I should say.
00:42:14
Speaker 3: She's the former assistant principal of the rich Neek Elementary School in Virginia and she was facing eight felony counts of child neglect after one of her students shot and wounded a first grade teacher, Abby's Werner in January twenty twenty three. The prosecutors argued that Ebony ignored multiple explicit warnings from staff members that the child had a gun right remember this, Yeah, and just right before the incident occurred where he shot the teacher. A jury awarded Abby's Warner ten million dollars in damages against Ebene Parker in late twenty twenty five, but her criminal trial came to an abrupt halt just last week. The presiding judge dismissed all the criminal charges mid trial, ruling that Ebony Parker's actions did not constitute a crime under Virginia law or common law.
00:43:08
Speaker 2: What do you guys think? I agree with the decision. Yeah, I agree with the decision. I agree with what the talk back said.
00:43:17
Speaker 6: And also thank you for that energy you just put out into the universe. And I also think that the prosecution they absolutely mishandled the charges. I'm gonna mess up at detail, but not by much. That they carried account for each of the bullets that had not yet been discharged, and that is not part of Virginia law, and so it was just a mischarge. Regardless of everything else, you're a hunter. On top of that, you're a hundred percent correct.
00:43:46
Speaker 3: The judge was like, you can't charge with these unspent bullets that were in the weapon. That's there's no victim, right, and in these bullets that were not fired, So you're one hundred percent right.
00:43:56
Speaker 2: That's how I remember as well.
00:43:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I uh, you know, and I I think it does matter too, And I've seen those same YouTube videos. Now, how would you guys feel if your children and you know, we're searched other person?
00:44:08
Speaker 2: Would you throw a fit? Or would you be like, oh, okay, there's probably a reason, I'm okay with it, You're okay with it. What if what if your child didn't want to be searched? Why? I don't know. I mean, how would you guys feel?
00:44:26
Speaker 3: It?
00:44:26
Speaker 2: Is loving it, but yeah, it's part of the deal. It's the world we live in. Unfortunately, this is a real problem. And I don't know what the answer is systemically to solve the problem, but in the immediate yeah, if that means you've got to have your person searched as a young child in this world we now live in that seems sometimes upside down but also awesome. So I don't want to be perpetuating sadness, but in reality, yeah, we can't have six year olds rolling into school with a backpack filled with weapons or a gun. And you know, guess I do think the principal may to bad judgment call and it was a super bad day to be the principal that day, and I think she probably will not do it again. I also think her response felt a bit indignant and therefore it escalated. But calling all teachers, you're all saints, and whatever we can do to make sure that you are safe in the classroom, I am on board with.
00:45:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, listen, stick around because at the top of the hour, we're gonna talk about a tragic apparent murder suicide of an elderly couple. They were a target of a scammer posing as actor Tom Selleck. Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.
00:45:47
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in on this beautiful Memorial Day weekend, although not so beautiful in Mick the Woods. It's been pouring all weekend, so hopefully you all are soaking up some sun and enjoying some time off from work in life. If you're not, we're also so glad that you're here, So pulpa cher and join us. A couple of big announcements that we're really proud to say. We have a new podcast coming out on iHeart called AI Made Me Die that we've all been working on very proudly, Courtney. The airdate is June June tenth, that is right exactly. And also Kat's documentary Murder one oh one will be premiering on Amazon on July sixth, which we're really excited about. I hope you'll love it and that you'll tune in. And also we'll be launching kt TV, which we're also super excited about. It'll be a video version of all of our projects we're experimenting with documentaries, also mini docu entories and scripted and interviews, all things true crime and all things true crime adjacent. So if you want to finally see any of our mugs, that is where you will do it. We are also trying to learn how to do a merch store, so I guess some of that to come. We're working on it. If anybody has any big tips or suggestions or things that they want to see. We really want to hear it, so we'll have updates on the KT Studios website or on our Instagram at KT Studios, so please keep checking that for updates to come and listen. We have a lot to still get to tonight. If you've missed any of the first hour of the show, though, do not sweat it for a second. You can always catch it as a podcast right after and just keep those talkbacks coming. So Tom Selleck, do you all know who Tom Sellick is? Because our baby Ava Caplan does not know who this is, and that makes total sense because this is where the generations are real. We grew up in a house or at least I did where Tom Selleck from Magnum Pi and also more recently Blued Bloods. You might have seen him also on Friends. He was Courtney Cox's boyfriend at one point. Mustache he was. He was iconic back in the day. Iconic. Oh, and now he's at the center of a scam, which is terrible. Nothing to do with him, by the way, he is with innocent. He's perfect.
00:48:28
Speaker 3: Yes, he's perfect, right, Yeah, I grew up in the same household Tom Sellick was like, my mom's heart draw.
00:48:35
Speaker 2: Right, And I think it's really important.
00:48:37
Speaker 3: That we talk about this because, you know, I think probably a lot of our listeners are likely similar ages to us, right, maybe forties to fifties, and you know, we have aging parents and they're very susceptible to this kind of scam, you know, especially if they're widowed perhaps or maybe suffering medically from something and maybe feeling a little lonely. I'm terrified of this myself, like falling to something like this when I get older. So I take this personally very seriously. It's very sad story. So on Friday the fifteenth that just passed, the police conducted a welfare tech at a Bermuda Dunes, California home, and they discovered a tragedy seventy nine year old Karen Whitaker and her husband, eighty year old Donna Donald Whittaker.
00:49:29
Speaker 2: They were found dead with violent injuries all right.
00:49:33
Speaker 3: The Riverside County Sheriff's Office is investigating this tragedy as a suspected murder suicide that was driven by intense financial stress and tention. A close friend of the couple revealed that Karen Whitaker the seventy nine year old Karen Whitaker had fallen victim to a sophisticated online scam that drained the couple's finances over the course of about a year. Authorities are still investigating a case for financial elder abuse. They emphasize there is no evidence to suggest that the online scammers were physically present or were responsible and involved in the violence, but they're pointing to it as the reason. Okay, So here's how it went down. So the scam began after Karen Whittaker, she's the the wife and one of the decedents. The scam began after she posted to Facebook a tribute to a deceased friend from high school. Okay, and it was probably a public Facebook post that everybody in the world can see. Well, she received a message on her Facebook from this scammer. Okay, and this guy he had a profile picture in the name of Tom Selik.
00:50:49
Speaker 8: Wow.
00:50:49
Speaker 3: Okay, So he was pretending to be Tom Selick. And he said to her, I'm so sorry to hear about our high school friend that died. I used to date her back in the day, all right, I'm paraphrasing.
00:51:03
Speaker 2: All right.
00:51:03
Speaker 3: So they start chatting and of course, as all scammers do, they move it off of the platform into texting, right, And as the conversation, you know, gets chattier and chattier, the scammer introduces romantic elements to the conversation. Right. So, now this woman who's seventy nine years old thinks that she is in a romantic relationship with Tom Selik, she's not, right.
00:51:32
Speaker 2: And by the way, and like she's again a married woman, but she's also like feeling the all the feelings, Like Tom Sellick is an amazing celebrity who's suddenly you know, iconic, who's now reaching out there. They're they're kindling a friendship.
00:51:49
Speaker 3: Right, and you know, in as we were saying earlier, tom Selick was the heart throb for people are mother's age, Like my mom had posters of Tom sell like on a refrigerator, Like, yeah, he was in like the Hawaiian shirt, the chest hair everywhere in the little short shorts and stuff like it's iconic.
00:52:11
Speaker 2: So it's scammers.
00:52:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, these scammers knew whose profile to use, right, they knew who to use.
00:52:20
Speaker 2: So and here's another very sad part.
00:52:23
Speaker 3: A friend of the couple noted that she believed Karen might have been suffering from early stage dementia on top of it all. So this woman who might have been suffering from some early stage dementia is thinking that she's in a relationship with Tom Selleck. And of course the scammer starts asking for money, right, And it started it started out small because they're fishing, right, They're they're testing the waters. Eighty dollars. I'm having an event, Could you maybe donate eighty dollars in a gift card? Okay, that's how it starts, right, And that escalates, you know, over the course of the conversation to well, if you want to buy a table at my event, it's eight hundred dollars, but you can't come. So of course this escalates, and over the course of the year, she gives this guy or a woman, I.
00:53:16
Speaker 2: Don't know, thirty thousand dollars.
00:53:18
Speaker 3: You buy my goodness, thirty thousand dollars, and they insisted that you keep paying me these gift cards. That's what they do, They want the gift cards. So how this all kind of came out was that the husband, Donald Whitaker, he's eighty years old. They learned about this only after Adult Protective Services came to their house in January. Apparently, you know, Karen was very vocal with her friends about her relationship, and they called Adult Protective Services on her. They came to visit the house, and that's how the husband found out about it. The family started cutting up her credit cards, you know, they removed her name from any banking accounts they could, and despite all that, she still found way to send the scammer money. All right, So sad.
00:54:09
Speaker 2: Oh, it is so sad and such an important topic.
00:54:12
Speaker 6: If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight, and we'd love to hear from you. We're at eight at eight three one crime, and we're talking about an elderly couple who died from an a parent murder suicide after being swindled by someone purporting to be.
00:54:32
Speaker 2: Homseellick.
00:54:33
Speaker 6: But there are many, many, many thousands or hundreds of thousands of scams like this.
00:54:39
Speaker 2: But what happened?
00:54:40
Speaker 6: So the Adult Protective Services comes to the home.
00:54:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they come to the home in January. The family learns about this and they're like, oh my gosh. They cut up through her credit cards and remove her name from make accounts and she's still finding ways. I don't know, what those ways were, but she's still finding ways to send the scammer money. And the day before the couple was found dead on Thursday, they were found dead on Friday. The day before they were found dead, apparently Karen that well, you know, the older woman in this case, reportedly asked her friends for money. And she was claiming that Tom Sellick's manager's wife had died and needed some financial help to get through it. So, I mean, up until the very end, she was, you know, top, my boyfriend's manager's wife died and they need help. Can you loan me some money? So friends noted that this was the last straw for her husband. Okay, he was embarrassed, he was overwhelmed, and he had like no ability to cope with this, and he reportedly confided that he feared taking his own life only because.
00:55:56
Speaker 2: It would leave Karen, you know, the older woman alone.
00:55:59
Speaker 3: With the finances and the total depletion of the children's inheritance. So he's like, I can't kill myself because she'll spend all the money and my kids won't get anything.
00:56:12
Speaker 6: It's terrible, it is, and on words, you know when you're being scammed and when you're being you know, brought in and reeled in over time, and people are working on all different avenues of whether it be a charity you should support or if they you know, feel you are lonely, and then start offering different kinds of friendships or relationships.
00:56:36
Speaker 2: And listen, it happens. You can be have as you know.
00:56:40
Speaker 6: Be as highly educated, and be as smart and a brain surgeon who flies airplanes. And no one is immune to these, I mean complaints people over age sixty. The complaints of skyrocketed to over two hundred thousand victim complaining of total financial losses. It's over seven point seven billion with a B dollars being scammed out of the elderly.
00:57:11
Speaker 2: Let's be honest. Two to that point, Courtney, It's only gonna get worse, you know now that we're on the advent of all things AI taking over the world, you know, with AI bots and fake it's very, very common for people to get phone calls with AI voices basically saying hey, look, you know, hey Tom Celick, Grandpa, it's me send me some money. I'm in trouble for you know, dad, I need your help. Please send me some money or I'm Tom Selleck. By the way, tom Sellek in my house, I actually sent away. I'm from Long Island, as you guys know, and we have something called news Day, which at the at the time, Newsday would have a little section that you could write to celebrities and get their autograph. And Tom Selleck was such a big deal, Like I wrote them a whole letter and he sent me headshots with his signature on them. That was like actually like real ink. And I was telling you guys earlier. I gave it to my teacher, Missus Fleming, who loved it because he was that big of a deal. So if somebody liked Tom Selleck, or any celebrity for that matter, would call and you're feeling a little lonesome or you know, life has gotten the best of you, You're the perfect target for this, and I think we're only going to see a huge uptick of this moving forward.
00:58:30
Speaker 3: I agree, And they get into your head right, like they know that Tom Selleck, to somebody who's eighty years old or seventy nine years old, is iconic and a trustworthy character, right, a trustworthy actor, and he is and he is like there's you know, he is completely innocent in this. By the way, how sad for him, by the way, because now people expect him to make a statement and stuff, and he's like, what is he supposed to say?
00:58:57
Speaker 2: He had nothing to do with this.
00:59:00
Speaker 6: What he say, and this certainly doesn't need to be only celebrity based, of course. I mean there's people who forever I remember dance instructors. It used to be a big scam a long time ago. Young handsome or good looking dance instructures would go to elderly holmes on and hey, I'm your dance inshoctor, and then they'd feel someone want a little romance whisper in their ear and somehow get a line.
00:59:29
Speaker 2: To their pocketbook, you know what I mean, and do it, you know, and.
00:59:32
Speaker 3: Over you know what, I'm seeing a lot on my Facebook, of all things, I get a lot of friend requests and you know whatever. A lot of them are saying they're military doctors now, and I go look at their profile and I'm like, okay, this is and then you know, three years ago they were Nigeria and I'm like, oh, you know, but a lot of them, I'm like a ton of them. I would say probably three a week I get and they're kidding. No, I'm not even kidding. They're military doctors all the time. They'll they'll pretend to be law enforcement of some kind or military doctors. And listen, if you guys, if people are asking you to send them gift cards, it is a scam. Do not be embarrassed. Tell somebody the scam happen to very highly educated people. As Courtney was mentioning, there is no embarrassment to be had.
01:00:20
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, no shame. There literally somebody on your vulnerability, the people that you love, you know, please help, yes, because you're kind and you want to help people.
01:00:32
Speaker 3: They pray on that. So please, if you feel that your your family or yourself is praying victim to this, please talk to your family. Let somebody know so that you know this can be this can be wrapped up. If it sounds too good to be true, I promise you that it is right. So well, yes, in any capacity, in right, but.
01:00:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, even in crypto too.
01:00:56
Speaker 3: If they ask you to send bitcoin, bitcoin or gift card car and it's usually like GameStop gift cards, are Walgreens gift cards, any kind of gift card, Apple pay gift cards, those are really big.
01:01:08
Speaker 2: Don't send them. Do not send them. It's a scam. I promise it's a scam.
01:01:13
Speaker 6: Well listen, stick around because after the break, we're gonna go into a friend of Lynette Hookers.
01:01:20
Speaker 2: She is the woman who is still.
01:01:22
Speaker 6: Missing in the Bahamas and her friend is speaking out about the husband, Brian's allegedly suspicious behavior. True Crime Tonight.
01:01:42
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney and Body. Listen, we have a talk back to get to all things Bahamas. We still have not found Lynette Hooker. You'll remember she's the wife and mother who was at sea or on a boat with her husband, Brian Hooker, who has claimed to know nothing about the incident other than it was very tragic where she fell off the boat allegedly with the key to the boat in her pocket and has yet to be found. The boat has been taken into custody, into US custody. The Bahamas authorities are still investigating, but no Lynette Hooker has been found. And for her daughter and her family, it's just incredibly tragic. And we have a little bit of an update now because one of her friends is speaking out. So before we get there, though, let's go to a talkback. I'm walking my.
01:02:42
Speaker 9: Neighborhood and listening on Tenda Needles because it's very interesting this whole Bahamas case number one. Is it too late to find any evidence on that boat? Maybe not, because they can tell if there's clean up, hopefully. I have a lot of questions because they didn't initially think criminal. So there's that questions in my brain. Keep up the good work.
01:03:03
Speaker 2: We have the same questions and audience too.
01:03:06
Speaker 4: There.
01:03:06
Speaker 2: Keep that walk going high five on the walk by the way and the pins and needles. We are right there with you. Can we talk about this for a moment. I think Gina brings up a really good point. I think you know she had mentioned is it too late to find evidence?
01:03:19
Speaker 3: Right?
01:03:20
Speaker 2: I don't you know?
01:03:22
Speaker 3: We do know from talking to Joseph Scott Morgan, who is our forensics expert, right Professor Joseph Scott Morgan. You can find him at his wonderful podcast Body Bags, And one of the things that we learned from him is that, yeah, ocean and sea air can deteriorate forensic evidence, and what investigators are likely going to focus on is like a washing down of the boat, just like Gina mentioned, you know, I think that's what they're really going to focus on. Was there an exhaustive cleanup done on this boat? And you know, a month has passed since between the time one that hooker vanished and between the time the vote was basically captured by the Coast Guarden toad to that Coast Guard facility in Florida, so a month had passed. Are they going to be able to determine what happened, if anything, on that boat? I think it's really interesting.
01:04:19
Speaker 6: I think it's interesting, and I think there's a distinction between will they be able to find anything maybe and even quite possibly, However, will it then be admissible should any future trial come to bear? And that's got to be a big fat no.
01:04:36
Speaker 3: That's a really good like chain of custody is going to come into play there.
01:04:40
Speaker 2: The boat was open to you.
01:04:42
Speaker 6: Know, yeah, anyone who wanted to walk on and plant any evidence that may be found, that's right.
01:04:50
Speaker 2: I secretly am not convinced. And again this is my personal opinion. This is not based on new evidence or anything. So just you know, I'm theorizing here. It just seems in possible that how things went down according to husband Brian Hooker, happened. Is it possible that she had her life taken? God forbid, I hate him and saying this out loud, but is it possible that she had her life taken elsewhere? And this was a convenient story because again, the currents are you know, specific there. You know, as we've discussed in previous episodes, it it isn't totally uncommon that her body, if in fact she was no longer with us, would have come up to shore by now. I guess the way this particular water way is she just may never be found. But I don't think this guy is so clever to be able to pull that off. I mean, I would imagine he had to have cleaned up and this boat would have had some evidence on it, and I'm just not confident that this guy could pull it off.
01:05:51
Speaker 3: You make a good point in his friend is calling him to the carpet on that. You know, you set it up so well earlier. You know about Lena's disappearance and all that, so I need to repeat that. But you know, one of the things that has happened now is a friend of the couple recently revealed to Fox News that he was shocked to learn that Brian Hooker never activated this thirty three thousand dollars system and camera system that they have on the sailboat as part of the search. So apparently there's this thermal camera imaging system that the boat has on it that they had installed that detects a lot of things that Brian never offered up. His name is Dan Danforth and he's a friend of the couple.
01:06:37
Speaker 5: Right.
01:06:37
Speaker 3: He met them while they were I think anchored next to them at another port in the United States, I think in Louisiana and louis So they became friends. They became friends with a couple, and Dan Danforth said that he got a tour of the soul meat while you know, they were parked next to each other, and he got to see all this equipment and it included an infrared and heat camera system. He and by the way, I guess he told his friend Dan a totally different story than he told the authorities.
01:07:16
Speaker 2: That's a very big piece of invatation. Can we unpack that too, Both of these are very big pieces of information. But can we pause for a second just to untrack that, Yes, unpassed. So the device so a thirty four thousand dollars piece of equipment that's put into your boat. Again, this is expensive stuff.
01:07:33
Speaker 7: You know.
01:07:34
Speaker 2: We have Lynette and her husband, you know, Brian, who are her living their best life? Right, They're on a boat, they're at the Hired Yo Hired, They're coming and going, They're in the Bahamas, They've been to Louisiana, amongst many many places. You know, in so many scenarios, that's the American dream which is now seemingly turned into a nightmare. If he had the equipment in order to find her, why and the world would he not use that or why in the world would he not be sharing that information with authorities. Yeah.
01:08:07
Speaker 3: I'm not really familiar with what this system, the security system is, so I don't know what its capabilities are. But apparently the friend is this guy Daniel Danforth. He's familiar with what the system does, and like I said, he said he was stunned that Brian Hooker didn't offer it up as part of the search. Yeah, so, I mean, I believe that's a pretty big deal. If it's true, right, it's a pretty big deal. And you know, the story that Brian Hooker told him is is that Lynette fell and started swimming toward the sailboat. Yeah, that's what he says. Okay, this is what the friend says. And he thought it was weird that Brian immediately told authorities that she was lost at sea and that he didn't go check the sailboat immediately, right and believing all these sex messages and one thing too, he said he did confirm that he spoke to a coast guard and told them about the system. The coast guard found it very interesting and they should be able to access the history of that system on the boat. If they were close to the boat, it would have tracked entrances, exits, things of that nature, so attracts like the ins and outs of the boat, and the coastguard is saying they should be able to come up with data on that if there were any coming into comings and goings. It came with the boat. It's a high end, luxury, military grade security system. And he went on to say if I was trying to rescue someone the next day, it would have been a benefit to the rescue party. That's what it does. So the system is a pretty big deal. And the friends calling them out to the carpet, So.
01:10:01
Speaker 2: The wrong story is insane. Also, we have to like drop the mic there for a moment for him to actually have a different set of circumstances around Lynette's disappearance that are so staggeringly different the idea that he saw her swimming versus he could never find her again and actually had to go in a different direction on his own, because again, the circumstances of this is so scary. Imagine you're at sea, it's dark, You're with your beloved who falls overboard. What do you do? Do you jump in? I assume that you would jump in and try to find them, But now what does that mean? Now two people are out of the boat, now all of us are back in, and now both of us are stranded. So that wouldn't be a great call. What do you do? You panic, you scream, you yell, you and his case eventually finds his way to the shoreline, But without Lynette, you think he would be losing his mind. Where is Brian Hooker right now? I have seen peep from him either here in the US?
01:11:02
Speaker 4: Have you?
01:11:04
Speaker 3: And his lawyer isn't isn't making any statements to the press either about his whereabouts last time he did her be.
01:11:11
Speaker 2: Caring for his mother and his mother to getting tons of attention from him because again, even Mom, this is her daughter in law that has now gone missing. I don't even want to say that she's deceased because we don't know that to be true. Maybe she is safe in some place and confused. And I just would imagine that Brian and her husband would be searching for her. Yeah, I would too.
01:11:34
Speaker 3: And apparently Dan Danforth, the couple's friend, feels the same way. And you know, you mentioned the inconsistency in the story. Maybe that's why the Bahamian Police Force picked him up for those seven days. You know, he was held for questioning me due to inconsistencies in his story. Maybe that's one of them. Maybe we're just learning now what those inconsistencies were.
01:11:56
Speaker 6: Right, recently, I was talking to Jared Farantino, are a favorite prosecutor and now best selling author Murders, Mothers and Motivations. By the way, but anyway, speaking with Jared Farantino about a totally separate case, and he's like, yeah, if you start lying about the smallest things, there is a big.
01:12:19
Speaker 3: Problem, totally totally. So we're going to continue to follow this and see it through. So stay tuned for that. This is true crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all time. You want to give us a call, do please do so. We'd love to hear from you. Eight eight eight thirty one Crime on you know, pretty much any topic we've been covering.
01:12:37
Speaker 2: Let's go to a talkback right now.
01:12:39
Speaker 10: Hi, guys, Ali from Orlando. You just had the judge Michelle on I wanted to turn you onto an Instagram account called one Mom's Battle. Tina Swiften. Her goal in life in general is to educate judges and lawyers about narcissistic disorder, especially when it comes up in cases in court. She gives away free books to new lawyers who just graduated.
01:13:08
Speaker 2: I love that. Oh wow, that's major, very cool.
01:13:12
Speaker 3: That is major, because yeah, I mean you have to in order to, like, you know, uh, I imagine, introduce somebody as being a narcissist and and that's why you're fighting over custody or something. You have to introduce some kind of expert. And guess what that costs a lot of money, right, so expensive.
01:13:30
Speaker 2: It's als so impossible, and we see it now in some major cases even real time. You know, we've talked about it here so frequently, the former Dancing with the Stars, the Mormon uh Dakota and on her name Jordan, the former Bachelorette correct who her show never even aired because of this contentious you know, custody dispute that she was having with her ex and you know videos where she was behaving horribly in the presence of her child, and it obviously was very abusive, and we talked about it here where there was two sides to that. It seemed as though she was reacting to a level of abuse also from potentially a narcissist. So I think sometimes talking about these cases and unpacking them at the base level is important stuff because it's hard to really understand it unless you see it. And I think some of those cases, like even that one, as tragic as it was from the former bachelorette, seeing it was kind of staggering and took your breath away and made you mad, and you can sort of now see how that can happen. And yes, here's to our fantastic judge, she really knows how to bring home the information. Judge Michelle.
01:14:49
Speaker 6: Speaking, I wanted to brag on Ava for one hot second, and this relates back to things that are going on in the court. Ava, would you share a little bit of what you said last week?
01:15:02
Speaker 8: Yes, I as I am a producer of True Crime Tonight, but I'm also a listener and I was so inspired by a guess that we had on a couple months ago. I'm forgetting her name right now, but she works with an organization called KASA, which stands for I'm blanking.
01:15:20
Speaker 2: Court Appointed Special Advocates, thank you.
01:15:24
Speaker 8: And it's essentially people who are go through a long training process in order to be able to support foster children as they're navigating the court system. So it's not just lawyers kind of arguing for one side or another or everyone kind of is there that are getting paid. It's their job, and you know, foster children kind of want to have someone who is there because they care about them, not because of their dogs care about them. And so this guest was talking about specifically how foster children are so much more likely to fall into the criminal justice, some in a really negative way because they just have so little support.
01:16:03
Speaker 2: So I foster children are kind of like a soft spot in my heart.
01:16:06
Speaker 8: A really cool friend of mine grew up as a like in a foster home. So anyway, I I went to like the first training, So did you really a long application process and you have to like have all these references and get approved by the courts and all that stuff. But we're gonna we're gonna see.
01:16:23
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so proud of step one.
01:16:27
Speaker 6: I'm so proud of the interest You've got saved three recommendations right.
01:16:32
Speaker 2: Here and start there planning on it.
01:16:37
Speaker 6: But it's incredibly cool.
01:16:40
Speaker 2: Because, yeah, you're right.
01:16:42
Speaker 3: We learned a lot about the foster care system that day, and I was very surprised to learn that it's considered kind of a pipeline to prison. Yes, you know, I had no idea. So you're going to be changing someone's life at least.
01:16:57
Speaker 2: Oh you're going to get approved. I wouldn't you. You're perfect? You're perfect? Agree, Thanks guy? Perfect? Well, stick around, we've got more to dig into. We're going to play some more of your talk. That's when we returned keep it right here, True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We've been talking true crime all the time. Happy Memorial Day weekend. We hope you guys have been having a great one. I'm Steph here with Courtney and Body and let's go to we're talking about.
01:17:34
Speaker 11: Ananda from Mississippi. I'm listening to the show where he has Jarrett Garantina line, you guys are talking about representing yourself in court, and I gave old one body said she would do it because I actually did do it for Stephen Took and I was doing so good until the very end whenever she straight up asked me Bossuton the city and they were like, okay, but were you Steeden And I was like, I don't recall.
01:17:58
Speaker 7: Judge was like, oh.
01:18:00
Speaker 11: Yeah, he got you. So anyway, he only charged me twenty dollars for the speeding ticket instead of like it would have been like a four hundred dollars ticket, So I s metically one. I was okay with that and it was worth it to me, so give.
01:18:14
Speaker 7: It a shot.
01:18:16
Speaker 2: Give it a shot. By the way, that was a three hundred and eighty dollars savings. And I appreciate the honesty, you know, like I don't reply under oath.
01:18:25
Speaker 3: That was great, But listen, I probably would When I say I would do it, I mean for like something like that. I don't think I would do it if I was you know, facing serious charges, right, because first of all, I'm not qualified in any capacity to represent anyone, including myself, and especially if I'm innocent. Can you imagine I go to prison because I didn't do things or I didn't felt the right form and I would do something like that. So if it's something stupid like a speeding ticket or a parking ticket, yeah criminally, Uh, no way, I'm getting a lawyer, No way, Jose. But good for you for saving yourself all that money.
01:19:07
Speaker 2: I think you should be very proud of yourself for showing up and doing all the things, and yeah, having a good lawyer accounts. But if you can swing it by yourself. Have you guys ever seen that video? It's like a viral video on Instagram or something where and I think we've talked about it before. I don't know why. I find it's so so funny where the man gets pulled over for allegedly drunk driving and the police officer is a female and she, rather than making him count or do the alphabet, she makes him like do a dance and she does her own little kickball chain little dance and she's like.
01:19:38
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I think it's Reno nine one one. Isn't it from that show?
01:19:43
Speaker 2: I don't know it's real. No, no, it's real, it's not. I'm gonna find it right now, let's look, let's look, see it's real right now. No, it's not Ai, it's a skit. And then he does the dance and at the end he was like, not bad for a drunk.
01:19:58
Speaker 3: I think it's Rena on nine one one. I think it's a TV show.
01:20:01
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. I don't think so well, I'm I'm wrong often.
01:20:05
Speaker 3: So it's funny and it's great. It's funny and it's great. It doesn't matter. Yeah, if it's really or not, it's funny and it's great. But yeah, that would be me a hundred percent. I think do a little kickball team trying to sway.
01:20:17
Speaker 2: The judge to let me go, let me go. Yeah, you have another talk back?
01:20:24
Speaker 4: Hey, Oh it's Flita from Virginia. I just wanted to say that I just finished watching The Crash and oh my goodness, at the end of that movie, I cried and cried.
01:20:41
Speaker 2: That smile on.
01:20:44
Speaker 4: Those boys faces, Oh my goodness.
01:20:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really sad story.
01:20:52
Speaker 3: I mean three young people essentially, you know, I mean two lost their life and one is not getting out of her anytime soon. So three young lives basically ended. It's it's horrific. It's a horrific story.
01:21:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's it's referring back to a Netflix documentary called The Crash And there was a girl seventeen at the time, Mackenzie Shrilla, who was driving at one hundred miles an hour when she crashed her car into like directly into a wall, and very sadly that resulted in the death of her boyfriend Dominic Russo and their friend Davian Flanagan. And it talks, you know, what it does is explore that case. And yes, you are correct that they're smiling faces of the now deceased boys or will wrench any heart.
01:21:48
Speaker 3: But you know, last week we were talking about like the family wasn't represented, but the sister, his sister, I can't remember whose sister it was, but she was excellent.
01:22:01
Speaker 2: I thought so too. And they have now had video, even some BODYCM video of the parents being told about the loss of their children, and it's awful like hearing that real time and mom and dad's reaction or even in one particular case, mom's reaction is so heart wrenching. By the way, you guys were right, were youno nine to one one? Yeah? I stand was Wait, so this was completely scripted.
01:22:29
Speaker 3: Listen, you can't be in the world when you get When you get older, I'm making you give me all your.
01:22:34
Speaker 2: Credit cards and Courtney knows all of my passwords.
01:22:38
Speaker 4: I say.
01:22:39
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, the light over one, two, three, exclamation point. I had to change it at some point. No, yeah, that is terrible, Tom Selleck, do not call me. I'll give you all my money.
01:22:57
Speaker 4: If somebody called me.
01:22:58
Speaker 2: It was like ava something and you got to see it right now and don't tell anybody because she can't get in trouble. I'd be like, oh, I'm up, I'm good. I'll keep this secret to the day I die and listen in cash no problem. And then there you are down the rabbit hole getting screwed. Yeah, anyway, that's what hap continue. Yes, and the crash. Have you guys watched it yet? Yes? I watched it. What do you guys think? Was she guilty or innocent? I think she's guilty.
01:23:24
Speaker 3: But again I know that you know, uh that this is a Netflix document. They probably left some things out right because you can't fit everything in, right, you.
01:23:34
Speaker 2: Can have You only had so much time.
01:23:35
Speaker 3: You only have so much time. And I haven't gone through the case personally and looked at any documents or anything like that. But it's the documentary itself seemed pretty convincing to me. But if I'm just going on that, which I rarely do, then yeah, I think she's guilty.
01:23:51
Speaker 2: But I'd have to look personally. Let's get another talk back or actually, but yeah.
01:24:00
Speaker 12: Hey everyone, I just wanted to do a quick comment on Steve Shrilla from The Crash. He can complain all he wants about the film's editing, but nobody made him wear a shirt that says boom on it when it's a documentary about someone who died in a car crash. Mister tone death.
01:24:20
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, Yes, yeah, could not agree more.
01:24:26
Speaker 3: And we talked about this kind of you know, you guys make documentaries. I was in a documentary, so we know you know from first hand experience how wardrobe works. Right, you wear what you want and they say, yeah, you're nay to that in most cases. Right, he showed up to that documentary shoot wearing a boom shirt. Now, this is the father of Mackenzie Shrilla, the woman accused of murder in that horrific car crash. If you're the father of her and you're trying to proclaim her innocence, wouldn't you wear like a nice button up or tie even show some respect. This guy's wearing a shirt with boom on it. Tone deaf is an understatement.
01:25:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true. Tone deaf times a thousand.
01:25:12
Speaker 6: Yeah, I totally agree with I'll talk about you got.
01:25:17
Speaker 2: Some DM Let's get some dms going AVA. Yes, okay, I love oh last bit she Those dms are coming close. But while we're waiting on AVA with a little bit of a tech issue, Oh there she is.
01:25:35
Speaker 8: I wanted to read some of the dms that I get because I'm special when I get to have them on my phone. And we got some really nice ones in the past couple of week days that I don't think you guys have seen yet, so I wanted to share the first one.
01:25:48
Speaker 2: It's very timely.
01:25:49
Speaker 8: We got a DM from Julie who said, hey, True Crime besties, I'm over here building my crime com schedule and in all caps, body, where.
01:25:58
Speaker 2: Are you Julie? So cute?
01:26:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm apparently Courtney and Taha and I are going to be at crime Con.
01:26:10
Speaker 2: It starts Thursday.
01:26:11
Speaker 3: There's a lot there's like a nineties launch party on Thursday night that I'm going to, and then on Friday and Saturday, I'm gonna be running around, you know whatever. But Saturday nights, I am presenting a Clue Award for I believe it's best TV Documentary series. So I will definitely be at the Clue Awards and I'll be presenting there and I'll be wearing a maybe a fancy dress. I probably won't be wearing heels for sure, So I got to figure something out that I can wear the award show. And Courtney, you should probably probably bring something fancy to wear.
01:26:50
Speaker 2: Two.
01:26:51
Speaker 3: Oh, I think Courtney might be my plus one. I think Courtney might be my plus one. I'm asking her out live on the air.
01:27:00
Speaker 2: Oh what and not, by the way, you guys should definitely wear flats and you're going I care. I'm gonna be so there in spirit, but yeah, body is like the mayor of Crime Con, sosay there looking fabulous and running a butt. And I can't imagine Taha and Courtney in tow It's going to be quite the scene.
01:27:23
Speaker 3: I'm going to such a thing, and I want to tell everybody, if you're not used to Las Vegas in the summer, make sure you bring chapstick. Number one most important thing that you can bring chapstick in some lotion.
01:27:35
Speaker 2: It is dry.
01:27:36
Speaker 3: We have like almost no humidity, and if you're from like Florida or something, you're gonna die with another. Your skin is going to crack, your lips are gonna hurt. You might even get a bloody nose.
01:27:47
Speaker 6: I was going to say, bring a little nose spray along with that chapstick, not to get common off. Yes, common off a plane and then being in Vegas with the air conditioning to heat the dry.
01:27:59
Speaker 3: A lot of people ry show out bloody noses. Yeah, so just you know and listen. Dressed casually. I'm going to be wearing like Vans tennis shoes on, like a sun dress. I ain't getting dressed up.
01:28:10
Speaker 2: Wait, did you get a bloody nose getting off the plane because it's so hot and dry. I always assumed people in Las Vegas that were getting bloody noses, we're all doing drugs.
01:28:18
Speaker 4: No.
01:28:18
Speaker 6: I would kind of joke because I would get a bloody nose every time I went, and I I have actually never do.
01:28:25
Speaker 2: Not on that list. I know people who are rounding around running a rampant doing drugs in Vegas. So seriously, you would get that from just the dry air well because you just you don't have those moistures that you're used to, and your skin cracks a little bit. Depends on how long you're here.
01:28:42
Speaker 3: When I first moved here, I moved here in August in the nineties and the late nineties, and it was like one hundred and twelve degrees one hundred and seventeen something like that. And that first week I was here, I was so sick from it being so hot and dry, and I came from the California coast where it's it's like a little bit of humidity, very tepid, and so when I got here, my skin and my nose, oh, and I had cracked lips. I had never experienced anything like that before. So bring some chrapstick, you guys. Let's go to another DM.
01:29:16
Speaker 8: Yeah, okay, so this one's really nice. I can't wait for you guys to hear it. So this is a DM from Tanja and she's a classic. She's part of our true creme checker. She says, Hello, TCT crew, It's Tanja from just outside Nashville. I don't have a comment on any specific topics. I just want to say that as a listener from episode one, you guys are all caps the best podcast out there. I think so because each of you have such distinct personalities that compliment each other so well. Okay, then here we go with the specific compliments. Stephanie and her eternal optimism is refreshing body with her analytical and beautiful mind, and Coordny with her just the facts, and then I will form an opinion mindset. You formed the perfect team taha. Sam and Adam included. And can I just say I love Courtney's laugh and when she says be good or be good at it, it just makes my day. Sorry for the long DM, but one final note, I love my allegedly allegedly allegedly sweatshirt. Maybe next time around you something with oof.
01:30:15
Speaker 2: You guys so nice and is so lovely. We have the nicest crew.
01:30:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was so nice, and I think that I think that we do make a good team. We're so different, all of us, right, but we respect each other's opinions. We let each other have their voice. Yeah, and I think we do compliment one another. And I feel like, you know, she was so on spot, Stephanie with her eternal optimism. Oh it's a force of literal force of nature. Like she's always so kind and giving and thoughtful. And of course Courtney, she's very stoic. She just sits back and waits for the facts, lets them come in, and then and only then once she knows everything does she form a very educated opinion.
01:31:09
Speaker 2: And I respect the of that mm hmmm. And then you also analyzing the world. I mean again, we all bring different things at the table, but that's all. We have the fun and all of you listeners who have been participating so kindly, I mean, we can't say enough great things. So thank you for being so devoted. Yes, thank you very much.
01:31:28
Speaker 6: It's very cool that we get to be part of your days. It's like a real cool honor that we do. And thank you for reaching out.
01:31:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. What should we do now? One more? DM? Can we sneaky sneak?
01:31:44
Speaker 8: This one's This one's for body too, it says, well, I think body will appreciate it. This is Liz from Washington, originally from Michigan. She has a dog named Annie Arber. DM goes from Annie Arber's Instagram account, just largely Staddy arbor House grown Instagram account. And she said, I just want to let Boddy know that Detroit officially announced it's getting a PWHL team, and I don't know what this means at all. And while she could keep her v g K for the men, she's better Detroit fan for the women.
01:32:18
Speaker 2: What does that mean? Okay?
01:32:20
Speaker 3: So it's the Professional Women's Hockey League, Okay.
01:32:23
Speaker 2: And we got one in Vegas too. It's it's it's branching out.
01:32:27
Speaker 3: And by the way, Vegas Golden Knights are playing in the Western Conference Final against the Colorado Avalanche right now. I literally have the game on my phone. I'm looking at it because we might win the Stanley Cup. But listen, Detroit Red Wings my number one team, number one team, Detroit Win Wings.
01:32:42
Speaker 2: BGK is number two. That's so exciting. I go the distance, sending good vibes, definitely sending good vibes. Thank you everybody for being with us tonight. We'll be back on Tuesday and have the best Memorial Day, hopefully proper time off, and we are sending a proverbial hug to all of you, have a good good night, good night,
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests, and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station, it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and we have Ava Kaplan. I are a producer with us this evening and Sam and Adams standing by the phone. It's Sunday, May twenty fourth. Happy Memorial Day weekend. Everyone, guess what? We have A stack night of headlines. The viral quote egg Lady of the Alex Murda trial reveals her identity amid jury tampering allegations, plus major updates in the criminal investigation into former Prince Andrew and three new alleged Epstein conspirators are identified. Plus a tragic apparent murder suicide of an elderly couple who were the target of a scammer opposing to be Tom sell It. Remember Tom Selleck of Magnum p I. A friend of Lynnette Hooker, the missing mom and wife in the Bahamas, has a friend who has spoken that about Brian's alleged unusual behavior. Ladies, did you have a good weekend so far? I did.
00:01:21
Speaker 3: It's so hot where I live. I live in Las Vegas. It is it's like the surface of the sun. I can't watch.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Look at me. I look like I'm naked right now. Huh, you do look topless. It's a funny. It's a fun thing. Listen, give those shoulders a break. It is so hot. How hot is it?
00:01:41
Speaker 3: It's probably only like ninety three, but I'm very sensitive to the heat.
00:01:44
Speaker 2: So I'm being a baby. And I'll tell you that. In Los Angeles. There's so much happening right now with that potential disaster in Orange County. We're following it so closely. If there are any new developments, of course, we will be letting you know. But it seems as though things are heading in the positive right direction.
00:02:07
Speaker 3: So scary in Garden Grove, right, I think that's right. We took this trip to god and Grove sublind I love it.
00:02:16
Speaker 2: Okay, Now, how was your weekend, Stephanie so far? Listen? It is still full swing.
00:02:20
Speaker 4: You know.
00:02:21
Speaker 2: I am claiming full weekend. So tomorrow we will be Memorial daying. I don't know what that involves here in Nashville. There might be a parade involved in I don't know, brunch, what do you guys think anyone is welcome to come? Oh on my way, get me out of this heat for a minute, fair enough. By the way, in case we go any further, body is going to be a crime con this upcoming weekend, so let's make sure if you are planning on being there, that you go find her. And I believe Courtney Armstrong and Taha are heading that way as well. So much revelee to be had. We will of course be jealous us Ava and I and Adam and Sam and listen. If you want to join us live, please do eight A eight three one crime. We'd love to hear from you, or you could always leave us a talk back. In fact, let's go to one now.
00:03:12
Speaker 5: I'm just thinking about the Alex Murdaw trial you guys are talking about in the retrial, and I'm wondering if there's any world in where he has a bench trial as opposed to a jury trial because of this insurmountable job of trying to find an impartial jury. Just the thought, I don't know if that's even a thing.
00:03:37
Speaker 3: Gosh, cricket, that's a really good question, right, Ken, So a bench trial? What is a bench trial? The bench trials where the judge decides, right, the judge decides guilt or innocence, rather than a jury, right, And you know, everybody in the United States is afforded to be tried in front of a jury of your peers. It is up to the defend din't to determine if they want a bench trial or not, not the judge. So what do they do if they can't find a jury? Can they force a bench trial? I don't think so, because that is a violation of your sixth Amendment.
00:04:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a jury of your peers is sort of the end goal unless it's elected. To my understanding, at least, and again, not having a jury trial is also a scary thing. You're looking at one person's decision. So at least when you have multiple people weighing in, that could be you know, important, frankly, But if only the judge is deciding, that could also be really scary, quite frankly.
00:04:38
Speaker 6: My understanding is that while you do, of course have a constitutional right you can ask for the judge jury in a criminal but yeah, the prosecutor and.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: The judge, like they all have to be a.
00:04:52
Speaker 3: You remember Kelly Fitzsimmons, the police officer who was accused of shooting another police officer. Yes, she asked for trial, remember, right, And she was the one who initiated that from you know, She's like, I'm going to give up this right, I want this to be a bench trial. And of course, you know, the judge ruled in her favor, so it actually worked out to her benefit.
00:05:14
Speaker 6: But and in that documentary Crash, they also it was a bench trial that ended that case.
00:05:21
Speaker 2: That's right, You're absolutely right.
00:05:23
Speaker 3: So, I mean, it is certainly something that can happen, But I do believe it's something that the defense side has to like ask for and then of course the judge has to agree in the state, you know, and the prosecution has to agree as well. I don't think it's something that the judge can force on on Allen's worth at all. Yeah, but that's a really good question, I mean, because I don't know what the jury's going I don't know what they're going to do to find a jury for this case in South Carolina, like, and they can't move it to another state, you know, I don't know what they're.
00:05:53
Speaker 2: Going to do. It's going to be really it's a real pressure point. And again, really it's just one of those cases that many people would assume he's very guilty. I mean, this was not a great look. That trial, the last time that Alex Murder went through, did not leave him in a good light. And many of us saw that trial so a you can't unsee the trial. You really can't unsee the many documentaries and the scripted show out on Hulu about this case. None of those versions of any of them that I've seen at least make Alex look like a great guy. If I'm his a defense attorney. Not that I'm suggesting this is a good thing, but if I was his defense attorney, this would be the pressure point that I would lean into.
00:06:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, But at the same time, you are allowed to know the details of a case, even you know, to be selected as a jury member.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: You just can't have any bias.
00:06:43
Speaker 3: You can't just say, you know, I believe he's guilty or I I you know, I'm not going to be able to change my mind, because when they decide on guilt or innocence in the jury room, they have notes that they are, you know, allowed to take in things that they're allowed to look at. If that yet, if the evidence wasn't presented at trial, it's not something that they can.
00:07:01
Speaker 2: Consider for guilt.
00:07:02
Speaker 3: And you know, Drew void Dar they can eliminate people who are biased. You know, it's really gonna I don't know, this is really complicated. I'm tend to ramble because I get excited.
00:07:13
Speaker 2: About this stuff.
00:07:15
Speaker 6: No, it's interesting. And if you're just kind of catching up on this case. Alex Murda, he's the guy who's the really powerful attorney in South Carolina and he was convicted of murdering his wife Maggie and his son Paul in twenty twenty three. However, recently the South Carolina Supreme Court overturned that verdict, and that all goes back to something we've spoken a little bit about, which is the former clerk of the court, Becky Hill, who was assessed to have been putting undue pressure on the jury to get a guilty verdict, which is insane in total misconduct. Well, there's some new information. Did you guys know about the egg jur.
00:08:00
Speaker 2: I do, and I'm desperate to talk to you about it. Yeah, let's I didn't hear about it till today. Yeah.
00:08:06
Speaker 6: So the eggger now we all know as of today, her name Myrah Crosby. So she earned that nickname because immediately after being dismissed from the jury in twenty twenty three, at the trial for alleged misconduct, she asked the judge if she could a get her purse and b grab a dozen free range eggs that a fellow juror had brought in, which I think is kind of a riot. That was her priority in that moment.
00:08:35
Speaker 2: Right right, those eggs, I want those sikes. Yeah, forget the murder trial.
00:08:42
Speaker 6: So, but this is impactful because the recent retial orders, they allege that the kind of dirty clerk, Becky Hill, that she systematically targeted this egg ger, Bra Crosby, and she did it to secure a swift, unanimous guilty verdict. Apparently, Becky Hill, the court clerk, forged a Facebook post pretending to be the egg jurors estranged ex husband and saying that the juror was discussing the trial while drunk.
00:09:17
Speaker 2: I mean, so Becky Hill is out of hand. Can we just discuss Becky Hill from one quick moment? So Becky Hill if this is accurate, right, which, by the way, any of the things that now Becky Hill has been accused of, like the book she wrote about the trial, that she should not have been spewing any information about. It's a really sacred position. You're in a courtroom. You're dealing with people who are, by the way, who have been through a lot number one, because they're witnessing and hearing really difficult things. To be a juror in a case like this is not easy. We're talking about a wife and a young son who's been murdered. You know, you're seeing details, you're hearing things. It can be very confusing, it can be very triggering. And Becky Hill, who's in charge of making sure the jury is in good hands, is the hands that's actually rocking this cradle. It's shocking, and again it's very important that we're discussing it and that she's getting a handslab. But what does that mean for justice for Alex's wife and kid.
00:10:26
Speaker 6: Well, I think the new jury is going to be where whatever form of justice justice takes place.
00:10:33
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, yeah, can we really really quickly?
00:10:38
Speaker 3: So they're saying, the defense is saying Alex Murdle's defense is saying that Becky Hill basically created a Facebook profile in the name and the profile photo of the juror's ex husband and then made a Facebook post that she was discussing the trial with him while she was drinking. That's what they're alleging, and they use this The Supreme Court of South Carolina used this information to determine whether or not Alex Murdall was going to receive a new trial, and they did determine that.
00:11:14
Speaker 2: It's a brazen lack of judgment. I mean, think about it. How much time does it take to actually your Becky, let's just go for one quick moment. You're Becky Hill, You're in charge of making sure all of the needs of this jury is met, and you go ahead and create a fake profile on social media. How much time and energy does that alone take? Like she's a little bit off her rocker. So, unfortunately, despite the fact that Alex Murder may have murdered his wife and son, it is completely justified that he gets a new jury based on this flagrant behavior.
00:11:54
Speaker 3: And apparently this juror was a little, you know, maybe up in the air about whether or not Alex murda was guilty or not and was targeted by Becky Hill, like Becky Hill is overly invested in Alex Murdaws.
00:12:06
Speaker 2: Why would that baby? You think that's.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: Crazy now, I mean you could say a lot of things, like maybe she was getting paid off by somebody, or she was somehow very resentful of him in some way. I mean, she works's, she works with the courts. He's a lawyer. Maybe there was something in their past, like some true altercation at the supermarket. I don't know, Like, why is she so invested? It's very weird to me, very weird.
00:12:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think is there a reason that comes to mind? Again, we had talked about it, because you know, we've had a few talkbacks and a caller that was suggesting, hey, maybe she's being paid off, because again, the level by which she is behaving badly is pretty unprecedented. Again, if you work at the court, at least in my experience, you are so dedicated and devoted to justice. It is not an easy job. It's an under paid job. You were hearing and dealing with really difficult things on a daily basis. It's one of those jobs that you say, hats off, We're so proud of you because you're really serving your community. But Becky Hill is just throwing a jackknife into it and lighten the whole house on fire.
00:13:17
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it was, and it's all speculation if it was a like a Robin Hood vigilante thing she was taking on, or.
00:13:26
Speaker 2: If she's just I think I don't know.
00:13:29
Speaker 6: She just this way, I said earlier, can you imagine being her, ex Like, if you're gonna go ahead and create fake profiles and do all this nonsense. So I don't know. But additional things she did body as you mentioned the Jurormira Crosby, she was hold out. She was having some doubt over missing murder weapons in the in the crime, and the cloak told her to quote forget about the guns. Oh yeah, insane, And then she went ahead and used a totally unverified rumor about this poor egg jur and said, hey, judge, the sheer has been discussing the case with a tenant of hers, And ten minutes later she was removed from the trial as.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: She should have been. It's again, this is a weird, wild miscarriage of justice, and this is what we're dealing with. Somebody who may have committed a double homicide, or who has been found guilty of committing a double homicide unfair, would be a real danger to society, may be freed because of her poor behavior.
00:14:39
Speaker 6: Wow, Becky behaving badly, Becky, So I know, right, So we'll see. The people are also fighting over this sealed files. Two parties want files that are sealed to be transparent. Mara Crosby, the juror, wants complete public transpace and see because her dismissal was so controversial, and Alex Murda's defense wants it too.
00:15:06
Speaker 2: So we'll see. We'll keep you updated.
00:15:09
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they're suing her civilly right, they want that. They want those files released because it's going to prove how meddling she was.
00:15:17
Speaker 2: And those dang kids too, just like Scooby Doo.
00:15:19
Speaker 4: Right.
00:15:20
Speaker 2: Well, coming up next, will we.
00:15:21
Speaker 3: Come back, We're going to get into some Epstein files and we're going to talk about a really tragic case out of California involving a scammer impersonating Tom Selleck.
00:15:29
Speaker 2: Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. Happy Memorial Day weekend, everybody. We have Avias Zaplin, who is in the hot seat with us this evening. Taha is off of the night. We miss you, but Ava, we're so happy you're here. Plus of course we have Sam and Adam in the control room just waiting for your call eight eight eight three one crime. If you have a second or one away in we'd love to hear from you. Or again, you can keep those talkbacks coming. For the record, you guys leave the greatest talkbacks and dms, So just know that we're getting them and we love them. And keep it up, Keep it up, keep it up. So this Epstein saga continues, it doesn't appear that it's going away, although in some cases it does. I will speak for myself anecdotically, even on my algorithm within whatever I'm on Instagram, et cetera, which again is not major sourcing. But I used to be flooded with information. Now it feels like I'm getting zero. You have to actually really go to look for that. And I don't know is that by design? Is there something to that? But now that Thomas Massey is you know, looking at his final days, he of course being one of the main voices behind the release of the EPSTEIN files. You know, the question remains, who will be accountable, if anyone, and how is it possible that there has been no action you know overseas. Of course in the UK, Prince Andrew is coming under fire a bit. So we have a bit of an update tonight, Courtney. Do you want to fill us in absolutely?
00:17:25
Speaker 6: And Andrew mount Batton Windsor, formerly known as Prince Andrew. He's been under investigation with regards to EPSTEIN for a long time and his name has come up in these millions of documents that came out through the Epstein Transparency Act. Well, there's been some new allegations that have come out and they span several decades. They involve multiple police sources all across the UK. So one thing that we knew about was that in twenty ten, while former Prince Andrew was as the UK Special Trade Envoy, he was leaking confidential government and trade reports to EPSTEIN.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: Very bad, beyond bad.
00:18:08
Speaker 6: What has just come out in sort of different Correspondents papers that came out between two thousand and one two thousand and two it revealed that Queen Elizabeth was very keen to secure her son's envoy role and confirmed theories that her maternal love sort of compromised her handling of his ties to Epstein potentially.
00:18:30
Speaker 2: Oh wow, so she really did. Yeah, she really did say that, and she really looked the other way. Remember, even she some of her own money was actually part of, you know, her son's ability to have cash to get out of some of these crimes. I mean, so that's also a little bit of a pocket here. And it seems as though Prince Andrew got away with a lot of things, and it doesn't appear that he's going to always get away with anything anymore. So they are cracking down on him as they should, I guess. But why are we not seeing that here?
00:19:05
Speaker 6: There's been such when hinting with a huge wink and a nod, I believe it's already had been let out that part of her monies went to Virginia Goufrey one of the victims.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: Is that right, Stephanie, That's correct exactly. So just think about that following of the money. So this is the Queen of England, our beloved queen. I grew up in a home that just loves the Royals. I've seen all the weddings. I got up at the crack of whatever to watch Princess Diana's wedding. It was such a big deal. I watched Megan Markle's wedding, such a big deal. We take the Royals pretty seriously. To so hear that, you know, our beloved Queen kind of knew that there might be some shady deliverings with her son, and that some of her money, yeah, went to Virginia Gouffrey, who is the lead face. Of course, she's no longer with us because she took her life back in twenty twenty. But that's pretty explosive to quote you directly. That's a great point. It's explosive.
00:20:06
Speaker 3: And you know you mentioned Virginia Gufay and that famous photo of them two together Andrew, you know, former Prince Andrew and Virginia Guffay when she was a lot younger. Obviously, it's very famous. Everybody has seen this photo. It's one of I mean, it kind of is legendary at this point, that's the two of them together.
00:20:25
Speaker 2: He said it was fake. He said that photo was fake for years and years. Frankly, a decade he said that was fake, as did so many people. Whereas this evidence comes forward, it's always, oh, that was manufactured, that was something that was completely made up. That was ai oh a birthday book that has completely inappropriate things written by real important people to Jeffrey Epstein on his birthday. You all remember that book. Apparently it was all fake. It was fake. It was fake. Hey, guess what, it turns out it wasn't fake. That book.
00:20:59
Speaker 6: By the way, I literally just made such a face to myself. How repugnant that book was, Like you said, these powerful leaders of states and countries doing dirty limericks and referencing just.
00:21:16
Speaker 2: Say, dirty things and dirty pictures.
00:21:18
Speaker 7: Yeah.
00:21:19
Speaker 6: Dirty, I mean, shame shame on everyone who went after went into that book.
00:21:26
Speaker 2: But there's a couple of other.
00:21:27
Speaker 6: Things that have come out which were brand new to me about the former prints, and they were they involved sexual misconduct and human trafficking. So I want to be hyper clear that as far as our understanding, and these are coming from victims making their accounts, they have not yet been verified, but they have been submitted to the FBI. There's a child abuse claim that separate inquiries into a couple of different allegations, one back all the way to the eighties and another one from like nineteen ninety five to two thousand and per these unsealed FBI files, there was an anonymous victim who alleged the former prince struck them with a car and sexually assaulted them between the ages of six and eight's.
00:22:19
Speaker 2: Let's just underscore that these are six and eight year olds. I mean, this is again that depravity is really hard to wrap your brain around. Hit them with a car.
00:22:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, The claim is that they were hit by a car and they left the detail of that. The car hood ornament came off in their hand. Again, these are in the FBI files. We're sharing what has come out as news recently. Additionally, another email allegation accuses the former prince of being an accessory to the death of a woman who was sold into sex, slavery and torture. So that's a big allegation and the government and royal response. We all know King Charles stripped his brother Andrew of his title, but Parliament is considering legislation to formally remove the former prince from the line of succession.
00:23:19
Speaker 3: Wow, that'll be very interesting if that happens. This is true Crime tonight we are on iHeartRadio.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Listen.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: This is a really heavy topic. If you want to weigh in, download the iHeartRadio up and just leave us a little talk back and we'll play it on the show, don't you guys. I don't know if what do you guys think about these allegations. I'd love to hear it. Will just give us a call and let us know. Eight eight eight thirty one crime. These allegations are pretty.
00:23:46
Speaker 2: Intense.
00:23:48
Speaker 3: I don't know the word to use for them outside of intense. They're saying that a woman that was sold into slavery and a sex ring, who, by the way, is an asset right at that point for the person who quote unquote owns her. They're saying that Prince William is an accessory to murder of that woman.
00:24:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, dout. That's very very dark start. And by the way, even with Thomas Massey, as we spoke about at the top of the segment, again, these are names that just are not being set out loud because these are dangerous allegations. Number One, you know, to be a victim to speak out to say something about people that are very powerful and very litigious and also very scary. This specifically is speaking about murder. So yeah, it's not that easy to go to Capitol Hill and put your name on an allegation knowing that the people that you're going up against could not only destroy your entire life and frankly have destroyed so many, but also your reputation out the window. But now we're talking life and death stuff and threats against your family, threats against your being, and if any of this is true, this is far darker than I think any of us were prepared for. Thomas Massey has what seven months left in office, but it's quite possible that he might get loose lipped. And you know Marjorie Taylor Green, who you know spoke out and spoke against you know, her former boss. She really hasn't said too much about what she was aware of. But Thomas Massey still has a place at the table, so maybe there is something actionable still to come. Where is allegations against Leon Black, Jess Staley for example, You know, some of these names are forever being repeated on a cycle. They've gone and done interviews before, you know, the House Oversight Committee. To what end, nothing really seems to happen. Les Wexner.
00:25:53
Speaker 3: You know, you said something that just kind of like tickled my brain a little bit. You said something like, the same names keep getting mentioned. Do you think at some point they are offering up like sacrificial lambs to keep everyone kind of distracted so that yes, you know, the outer circle or the inner circle I should stay stays protected. And that's why these three or four names keep getting.
00:26:18
Speaker 2: You know, in the new cycle interesting. There is a handful of men, specifically a handful of humans that have been not just alleged crimes or things that have been said about them, it's been said about them by so many Like how is there literally nothing actionable happening to somebody who's been accused of the level of things that some of these gentlemen have been accused of. It really does make it nerve wracking for any victim to come forward moving forward? Why would you nothing seems to happen.
00:26:50
Speaker 6: Well, that may be changing based on what just happened with the really brave testimony of Sarah Kellen. So she was a former distant to Epstein, and she has accused three previously unlinked men of wrongdoings. And this happened during the closed door testimony before the House Oversight Committee.
00:27:12
Speaker 2: So first of all, bravo Sarah Kellen, Yeah, big flat for sure.
00:27:18
Speaker 6: And James Comer, who's the committee chair, he called her interview the most substantive and productive to date and noted that these specific sexual abuse allegations were previously unknown to Congress.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: And keep in mind, this is somebody who's a tricky person also, so just to give some more context to that and make sure that we're sharing both sides of this. She was Jeffrey Epstein's assistant at some point, and allegedly she was also part of the grooming process that both she was a victim who then also victimized. This is something we've discussed here so much. You know, this cycle of abuse, it really does happen, and it happens very regularly. However, on its nose, it's easy for an outsider looking in to dismiss her testimony because she was an insider and had real access to information that she too allegedly acted on. So she's not a perfect person in this regard. However, her coming forward and speaking her truth I think will be one of the more monumental pieces of this case moving forward. Is she reinforcing some of the names that we've already heard. Yes, so we're seeing the same cycle of humans going through the process and through the process. And now that she's naming those three people, it's pretty groundbreaking, absolutely, because.
00:28:41
Speaker 6: All of the perpetrator's names have you know, unlike the survivors who were unredacted and had their information put out to the whole wide world, the perpetrators have not. But in this testimony, Sarah Kellen mentioned Fredrick Akai, who you guys are a hairdresser, yeah, addresser, And she testified that Fakai sexually assaulted her. This happened in the early two thousands, it was before she was employed by Ebstein, and files show that Epstein, I guess he liked to get his hair done because he spent thousands at the salon, and it seemed like they were buddy buddy, and that Frederick Krakai would request to repeatedly use Ebstein's apartments and rooms, and Ebstein boasted that he helped launch Faki's company.
00:29:31
Speaker 2: Which was a really big deal.
00:29:33
Speaker 6: So that's one name that none of us said, no one in Congress had heard.
00:29:38
Speaker 3: It seems like all these people somehow Jeffrey gets entangled with financially right in some capacity, whether he's investing or you know, maybe guiding them on investing into other people. He's kind of always got a grip on them somehow financially. And I think that when we talk about Jeffrey Epstein, we often mentioned blackmail and compromond and that might be part of it, you know, that he would entangle him themselves in his lie for some kind of control in some way, And.
00:30:10
Speaker 2: Just to offer some context to that, and I know we'll get to the other names after the break. Frederick, for Kai, was a very big deal, at least in New York City when I lived there. His salon was a big deal, Like this was the guy that had you know, the air quotes hairline of the century, Like he was famous in his field. We're need deep talking about epscene and some new revelations about some people who have been named by his former assistant in front of the House Oversight Committee. So Frederick Forkai, as we were just discussing, is one of those names. He is a renowned hair stylist and colorist and had a fancy salon that I used to go to in New York. The best color I ever had in my life. Was at the Frederick Forrachai hair salon and he had a whole beauty line and you know product, and this was the guy. So this is a name that was also not on anybody's radar. So welcome to the conversation. Frederick. He has not commented, but there are more people that are being brought into the conversation, Courtney tell us more.
00:31:17
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and by the way, Stephanie Year exactly right that Frederick Faki himself has not commented. However, a representative has category orically denied the claims and said that not only has he never abused anyone, he knew nothing of sex trafficker Ebstein's trafficking.
00:31:36
Speaker 2: So that is what is coming from Faki's camp.
00:31:40
Speaker 6: But two other names that Ebstein's former assistant mentioned in her testimony, So Sarah Kellen also said that the former mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine. Uh huh yeah, so she accused him of sexual assault and revealed that in twenty following Epstein's release from jail from sex crimes, by the way, this former mayor emailed him, quote, You're a great guy.
00:32:12
Speaker 2: Skirt skirt stop.
00:32:15
Speaker 3: So Jeffrey Epstein he's living in West Palm Beach. I believe in two thousand and eight, he makes this ACCTA deal with Acosta. He goes to like, you know, prison camp basically only at night to go to bed, and he's got like a day release for sex crimes. Right, he gets out. He gets out for these known sex crimes, and the mayor of Miami Beach emails him and he's like, you're a good dude.
00:32:44
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? That's right? I have to repeat it because I don't believe it too even just to bring bring it one step further. Jeffrey Epstein, during this time when he had been air quotes, serving time and in West Palm Beach, to your point, he would only sleep in jail at night, and during the day he was a free man to kind of wander and allegedly also abuse young girls. So allegations came forward. Do we discuss this, even as recently as last week, that even during that time that he was allegedly being charged and serving a sentence for the crimes he had committed, he was still wandering around able to still commit that exact same crime, which is shocking in and of itself, and the fact that that has continued for so long. By the way, where are the rest of the emails we have? You know, three million documents have been released allegedly, there's two and a half million more that are never going to see the light of day. Why why there? If you are innocent and your name is being associated with something that is not appropriate or that you had nothing to do with, the truth will set you free. Let the files out. But again, everything is getting pushed. Our algorithms are pushing this aside. We're not really hearing a ton about it in the press. It is certainly not anywhere in the mainstream media anymore. And I'm telling you, I am paying attention. We source this stuff in many different ways. It is not even easy to do that any longer. Even the air quotes left leaning media establishments. The lead is not Epstein any longer. It's almost as though there's a mandate that we're not allowed to talk about it. I think people, I'm surprised we're talking about it, and that in and of itself might be dangerous, But these names are being put out there. We would never want to accuse anybody of something that they didn't do. So again, these are allegedly allegedly allegedly allegations, but they're really serious and again, until some justice is seen. We've hundreds of women who have come out and their stories have been cooperated and still it's crickets. Wow.
00:34:56
Speaker 3: Okay, So the former mayor of Miami is like, a you know, you're a good dude. Let's chill. You know, I hope things come to an you know, a positive end for you moving forward.
00:35:08
Speaker 2: Take care. Wow. Yes, interesting, Yeah, so that's how his name came up.
00:35:13
Speaker 6: In addition, of course, in a paramount for the accusation that he indeed sexually assaulted Sarah Kellen. And then a few other tidbits was that this former mayor directed Ebstein in twenty thirteen on how to donate online, so many many years after he was a known convicted sex criminal. And also Gileene Maxwell, she called, she called Levine a very good friend, and he apparently is the one who introduced her to President Bill Clinton. And both Gileen Maxwell and this former mayor used to love trading a sexual joker too.
00:35:57
Speaker 2: I'm confused.
00:35:59
Speaker 3: I thought Gilaine was like dating somebody who knew the Clintons, and that's how she met them and that's why she was at the wedding. Why is it now that this Philip Levine Mayor introduced them Elaine?
00:36:15
Speaker 2: It's too much. Is it possible that Elaine Maxwell is lying or is not her story completely st It's possible. I think Elaine Maxwell is saying what she needs to say. Whoever, she needs to say it too in the moment. Right, So, some of these you know, dates are getting blurry. The how did I meet them exactly kind of blurry. And again some of this stuff was from yesteryear. But and the reality is these guys traveled in very specific circles Gilaine included. And let's remember Jeffrey Epstein, as we talked about earlier, was the number one honey potter. He was the guy that was blackmailing many be able to be able to get his agenda. Served That agenda was not only sex trafficking young girls, it was also political, it was financial. He was scamming banks, hand over fists. Let's remember Jess Staley, who's one of those names that again should be being held accountable, who headed up JP Morgan and let all of those red flags go away. You know how hard it is to make money in this life imagine this is a crew of people that are just making money hand over fist, break in every rule under the sun, and there is no accountability. We all have to pay our taxes. They don't have to worry about it. We have to pay our little fines if your check is laid or if you missed a payment, not if you're a Jess Staley and you run JP Morgan or Barkley's bank, which happened later and let these guys run rampant. So it's one believing the victims and two following the money. Who's the third person? Courtney Armstrong?
00:37:52
Speaker 6: Ooh, he is a French photographer, Patrick Demarcialier and Sarah Kellen, Epstein's former assistant.
00:38:02
Speaker 2: She textified that he exposed himself.
00:38:05
Speaker 6: To her and also that he was the one who originally introduced her to Epstein. And this is while he was scouting for Victoria's Secret models. So those that is the third name bodies fallen off our chair, listen and let's if you're while body's getting up. If you have any reaction to even the fact that new names are finally being revealed, we'd love to hear from you. This is true crime tonight. We're at eighty eight three one crime bodies are covered and covered.
00:38:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, Batty.
00:38:39
Speaker 3: I was just going to say, like, I remember being a younger woman and looking at these beautiful models walk the runway and being like jealous of them because they were so beautiful and thin and confident. And I'm not saying every one of them was a victim of anything, but it's it seems like there were many that were. And here I am. I have shame now that I was jealous of them, and it shouldn't shame. This was the industry that was targeted in so.
00:39:12
Speaker 2: It was no, it wasn't even an industry. It seems like it was an industry that was actually just a version of trafficking, Like this was part of the Yes, that's we've talked about it, right, So the you know Ford Modeling Agency, These are Gileen Ford. These are names that at least back in my day, this was the top of the top. And to your point, we all aspired to be like these beautiful women who were running the runways and wearing angel wings at the victorious Secret model competitions and this was all major stuff. So you think you can know or top model or whatever, the less wetster in Ohio who owns Victoria's secret. He is one of the main co contributors that's never been brought to justice. So how is that possible. Yes, there's this huge machine of the modeling in industry. We have this huge machine of the banking industry. Twenty banks have been indicted and have been brought into this. Have you guys been hearing about much about any of that? No?
00:40:11
Speaker 6: No, I mean I did when it happened and body you had mentioned earlier about.
00:40:16
Speaker 2: Yes, there has been less.
00:40:19
Speaker 6: News coming out information coming out about Epstein, And I think there can be many things true at once, and I do think one may be fatigue people simply when you hear day in day out about it is simply a fatigue and people move on with their daily lives, you know, listen until a testimony like this.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: So Sarah Kellen not good for Sarah. For Sarah, it was a lot of that was brave of her and hopefully there's some action because of it.
00:40:55
Speaker 7: Grab atacra Hi, guys, this is lastlie a listener Day one, huge fan. I'm so excited that you guys bring true crime on a daily basis. I just have a comment to make about the six year old in Virginia the shooting. I'm really glad that they dismissed the case against the vice principal. I just felt like, even though she was aware, they did do a bag search. And I have seen so many times on YouTube footage in school where students have absolutely thrown a fit if they tried to search their person, and I see teachers are very hesitant to search the children too. I mean, you just think of all the lawsuits that could come out of that as well. So I really felt like the mother went on the way to the school and the vice principal checked the bag. I just felt like she really had done the majority in her power to try and handle the situation anyway, Huge fans, Thanks ladies, love you.
00:42:01
Speaker 2: Oh we love you right back. That it was the best talkback. Yeah, I agree with her.
00:42:06
Speaker 3: I'm glad that, you know, the prince assistant principal, Ebity Parker was acquitted or the charges were dropped.
00:42:13
Speaker 2: I should say.
00:42:14
Speaker 3: She's the former assistant principal of the rich Neek Elementary School in Virginia and she was facing eight felony counts of child neglect after one of her students shot and wounded a first grade teacher, Abby's Werner in January twenty twenty three. The prosecutors argued that Ebony ignored multiple explicit warnings from staff members that the child had a gun right remember this, Yeah, and just right before the incident occurred where he shot the teacher. A jury awarded Abby's Warner ten million dollars in damages against Ebene Parker in late twenty twenty five, but her criminal trial came to an abrupt halt just last week. The presiding judge dismissed all the criminal charges mid trial, ruling that Ebony Parker's actions did not constitute a crime under Virginia law or common law.
00:43:08
Speaker 2: What do you guys think? I agree with the decision. Yeah, I agree with the decision. I agree with what the talk back said.
00:43:17
Speaker 6: And also thank you for that energy you just put out into the universe. And I also think that the prosecution they absolutely mishandled the charges. I'm gonna mess up at detail, but not by much. That they carried account for each of the bullets that had not yet been discharged, and that is not part of Virginia law, and so it was just a mischarge. Regardless of everything else, you're a hunter. On top of that, you're a hundred percent correct.
00:43:46
Speaker 3: The judge was like, you can't charge with these unspent bullets that were in the weapon. That's there's no victim, right, and in these bullets that were not fired, So you're one hundred percent right.
00:43:56
Speaker 2: That's how I remember as well.
00:43:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I uh, you know, and I I think it does matter too, And I've seen those same YouTube videos. Now, how would you guys feel if your children and you know, we're searched other person?
00:44:08
Speaker 2: Would you throw a fit? Or would you be like, oh, okay, there's probably a reason, I'm okay with it, You're okay with it. What if what if your child didn't want to be searched? Why? I don't know. I mean, how would you guys feel?
00:44:26
Speaker 3: It?
00:44:26
Speaker 2: Is loving it, but yeah, it's part of the deal. It's the world we live in. Unfortunately, this is a real problem. And I don't know what the answer is systemically to solve the problem, but in the immediate yeah, if that means you've got to have your person searched as a young child in this world we now live in that seems sometimes upside down but also awesome. So I don't want to be perpetuating sadness, but in reality, yeah, we can't have six year olds rolling into school with a backpack filled with weapons or a gun. And you know, guess I do think the principal may to bad judgment call and it was a super bad day to be the principal that day, and I think she probably will not do it again. I also think her response felt a bit indignant and therefore it escalated. But calling all teachers, you're all saints, and whatever we can do to make sure that you are safe in the classroom, I am on board with.
00:45:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, listen, stick around because at the top of the hour, we're gonna talk about a tragic apparent murder suicide of an elderly couple. They were a target of a scammer posing as actor Tom Selleck. Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.
00:45:47
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in on this beautiful Memorial Day weekend, although not so beautiful in Mick the Woods. It's been pouring all weekend, so hopefully you all are soaking up some sun and enjoying some time off from work in life. If you're not, we're also so glad that you're here, So pulpa cher and join us. A couple of big announcements that we're really proud to say. We have a new podcast coming out on iHeart called AI Made Me Die that we've all been working on very proudly, Courtney. The airdate is June June tenth, that is right exactly. And also Kat's documentary Murder one oh one will be premiering on Amazon on July sixth, which we're really excited about. I hope you'll love it and that you'll tune in. And also we'll be launching kt TV, which we're also super excited about. It'll be a video version of all of our projects we're experimenting with documentaries, also mini docu entories and scripted and interviews, all things true crime and all things true crime adjacent. So if you want to finally see any of our mugs, that is where you will do it. We are also trying to learn how to do a merch store, so I guess some of that to come. We're working on it. If anybody has any big tips or suggestions or things that they want to see. We really want to hear it, so we'll have updates on the KT Studios website or on our Instagram at KT Studios, so please keep checking that for updates to come and listen. We have a lot to still get to tonight. If you've missed any of the first hour of the show, though, do not sweat it for a second. You can always catch it as a podcast right after and just keep those talkbacks coming. So Tom Selleck, do you all know who Tom Sellick is? Because our baby Ava Caplan does not know who this is, and that makes total sense because this is where the generations are real. We grew up in a house or at least I did where Tom Selleck from Magnum Pi and also more recently Blued Bloods. You might have seen him also on Friends. He was Courtney Cox's boyfriend at one point. Mustache he was. He was iconic back in the day. Iconic. Oh, and now he's at the center of a scam, which is terrible. Nothing to do with him, by the way, he is with innocent. He's perfect.
00:48:28
Speaker 3: Yes, he's perfect, right, Yeah, I grew up in the same household Tom Sellick was like, my mom's heart draw.
00:48:35
Speaker 2: Right, And I think it's really important.
00:48:37
Speaker 3: That we talk about this because, you know, I think probably a lot of our listeners are likely similar ages to us, right, maybe forties to fifties, and you know, we have aging parents and they're very susceptible to this kind of scam, you know, especially if they're widowed perhaps or maybe suffering medically from something and maybe feeling a little lonely. I'm terrified of this myself, like falling to something like this when I get older. So I take this personally very seriously. It's very sad story. So on Friday the fifteenth that just passed, the police conducted a welfare tech at a Bermuda Dunes, California home, and they discovered a tragedy seventy nine year old Karen Whitaker and her husband, eighty year old Donna Donald Whittaker.
00:49:29
Speaker 2: They were found dead with violent injuries all right.
00:49:33
Speaker 3: The Riverside County Sheriff's Office is investigating this tragedy as a suspected murder suicide that was driven by intense financial stress and tention. A close friend of the couple revealed that Karen Whitaker the seventy nine year old Karen Whitaker had fallen victim to a sophisticated online scam that drained the couple's finances over the course of about a year. Authorities are still investigating a case for financial elder abuse. They emphasize there is no evidence to suggest that the online scammers were physically present or were responsible and involved in the violence, but they're pointing to it as the reason. Okay, So here's how it went down. So the scam began after Karen Whittaker, she's the the wife and one of the decedents. The scam began after she posted to Facebook a tribute to a deceased friend from high school. Okay, and it was probably a public Facebook post that everybody in the world can see. Well, she received a message on her Facebook from this scammer. Okay, and this guy he had a profile picture in the name of Tom Selik.
00:50:49
Speaker 8: Wow.
00:50:49
Speaker 3: Okay, So he was pretending to be Tom Selick. And he said to her, I'm so sorry to hear about our high school friend that died. I used to date her back in the day, all right, I'm paraphrasing.
00:51:03
Speaker 2: All right.
00:51:03
Speaker 3: So they start chatting and of course, as all scammers do, they move it off of the platform into texting, right, And as the conversation, you know, gets chattier and chattier, the scammer introduces romantic elements to the conversation. Right. So, now this woman who's seventy nine years old thinks that she is in a romantic relationship with Tom Selik, she's not, right.
00:51:32
Speaker 2: And by the way, and like she's again a married woman, but she's also like feeling the all the feelings, Like Tom Sellick is an amazing celebrity who's suddenly you know, iconic, who's now reaching out there. They're they're kindling a friendship.
00:51:49
Speaker 3: Right, and you know, in as we were saying earlier, tom Selick was the heart throb for people are mother's age, Like my mom had posters of Tom sell like on a refrigerator, Like, yeah, he was in like the Hawaiian shirt, the chest hair everywhere in the little short shorts and stuff like it's iconic.
00:52:11
Speaker 2: So it's scammers.
00:52:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, these scammers knew whose profile to use, right, they knew who to use.
00:52:20
Speaker 2: So and here's another very sad part.
00:52:23
Speaker 3: A friend of the couple noted that she believed Karen might have been suffering from early stage dementia on top of it all. So this woman who might have been suffering from some early stage dementia is thinking that she's in a relationship with Tom Selleck. And of course the scammer starts asking for money, right, And it started it started out small because they're fishing, right, They're they're testing the waters. Eighty dollars. I'm having an event, Could you maybe donate eighty dollars in a gift card? Okay, that's how it starts, right, And that escalates, you know, over the course of the conversation to well, if you want to buy a table at my event, it's eight hundred dollars, but you can't come. So of course this escalates, and over the course of the year, she gives this guy or a woman, I.
00:53:16
Speaker 2: Don't know, thirty thousand dollars.
00:53:18
Speaker 3: You buy my goodness, thirty thousand dollars, and they insisted that you keep paying me these gift cards. That's what they do, They want the gift cards. So how this all kind of came out was that the husband, Donald Whitaker, he's eighty years old. They learned about this only after Adult Protective Services came to their house in January. Apparently, you know, Karen was very vocal with her friends about her relationship, and they called Adult Protective Services on her. They came to visit the house, and that's how the husband found out about it. The family started cutting up her credit cards, you know, they removed her name from any banking accounts they could, and despite all that, she still found way to send the scammer money. All right, So sad.
00:54:09
Speaker 2: Oh, it is so sad and such an important topic.
00:54:12
Speaker 6: If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight, and we'd love to hear from you. We're at eight at eight three one crime, and we're talking about an elderly couple who died from an a parent murder suicide after being swindled by someone purporting to be.
00:54:32
Speaker 2: Homseellick.
00:54:33
Speaker 6: But there are many, many, many thousands or hundreds of thousands of scams like this.
00:54:39
Speaker 2: But what happened?
00:54:40
Speaker 6: So the Adult Protective Services comes to the home.
00:54:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they come to the home in January. The family learns about this and they're like, oh my gosh. They cut up through her credit cards and remove her name from make accounts and she's still finding ways. I don't know, what those ways were, but she's still finding ways to send the scammer money. And the day before the couple was found dead on Thursday, they were found dead on Friday. The day before they were found dead, apparently Karen that well, you know, the older woman in this case, reportedly asked her friends for money. And she was claiming that Tom Sellick's manager's wife had died and needed some financial help to get through it. So, I mean, up until the very end, she was, you know, top, my boyfriend's manager's wife died and they need help. Can you loan me some money? So friends noted that this was the last straw for her husband. Okay, he was embarrassed, he was overwhelmed, and he had like no ability to cope with this, and he reportedly confided that he feared taking his own life only because.
00:55:56
Speaker 2: It would leave Karen, you know, the older woman alone.
00:55:59
Speaker 3: With the finances and the total depletion of the children's inheritance. So he's like, I can't kill myself because she'll spend all the money and my kids won't get anything.
00:56:12
Speaker 6: It's terrible, it is, and on words, you know when you're being scammed and when you're being you know, brought in and reeled in over time, and people are working on all different avenues of whether it be a charity you should support or if they you know, feel you are lonely, and then start offering different kinds of friendships or relationships.
00:56:36
Speaker 2: And listen, it happens. You can be have as you know.
00:56:40
Speaker 6: Be as highly educated, and be as smart and a brain surgeon who flies airplanes. And no one is immune to these, I mean complaints people over age sixty. The complaints of skyrocketed to over two hundred thousand victim complaining of total financial losses. It's over seven point seven billion with a B dollars being scammed out of the elderly.
00:57:11
Speaker 2: Let's be honest. Two to that point, Courtney, It's only gonna get worse, you know now that we're on the advent of all things AI taking over the world, you know, with AI bots and fake it's very, very common for people to get phone calls with AI voices basically saying hey, look, you know, hey Tom Celick, Grandpa, it's me send me some money. I'm in trouble for you know, dad, I need your help. Please send me some money or I'm Tom Selleck. By the way, tom Sellek in my house, I actually sent away. I'm from Long Island, as you guys know, and we have something called news Day, which at the at the time, Newsday would have a little section that you could write to celebrities and get their autograph. And Tom Selleck was such a big deal, Like I wrote them a whole letter and he sent me headshots with his signature on them. That was like actually like real ink. And I was telling you guys earlier. I gave it to my teacher, Missus Fleming, who loved it because he was that big of a deal. So if somebody liked Tom Selleck, or any celebrity for that matter, would call and you're feeling a little lonesome or you know, life has gotten the best of you, You're the perfect target for this, and I think we're only going to see a huge uptick of this moving forward.
00:58:30
Speaker 3: I agree, And they get into your head right, like they know that Tom Selleck, to somebody who's eighty years old or seventy nine years old, is iconic and a trustworthy character, right, a trustworthy actor, and he is and he is like there's you know, he is completely innocent in this. By the way, how sad for him, by the way, because now people expect him to make a statement and stuff, and he's like, what is he supposed to say?
00:58:57
Speaker 2: He had nothing to do with this.
00:59:00
Speaker 6: What he say, and this certainly doesn't need to be only celebrity based, of course. I mean there's people who forever I remember dance instructors. It used to be a big scam a long time ago. Young handsome or good looking dance instructures would go to elderly holmes on and hey, I'm your dance inshoctor, and then they'd feel someone want a little romance whisper in their ear and somehow get a line.
00:59:29
Speaker 2: To their pocketbook, you know what I mean, and do it, you know, and.
00:59:32
Speaker 3: Over you know what, I'm seeing a lot on my Facebook, of all things, I get a lot of friend requests and you know whatever. A lot of them are saying they're military doctors now, and I go look at their profile and I'm like, okay, this is and then you know, three years ago they were Nigeria and I'm like, oh, you know, but a lot of them, I'm like a ton of them. I would say probably three a week I get and they're kidding. No, I'm not even kidding. They're military doctors all the time. They'll they'll pretend to be law enforcement of some kind or military doctors. And listen, if you guys, if people are asking you to send them gift cards, it is a scam. Do not be embarrassed. Tell somebody the scam happen to very highly educated people. As Courtney was mentioning, there is no embarrassment to be had.
01:00:20
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, no shame. There literally somebody on your vulnerability, the people that you love, you know, please help, yes, because you're kind and you want to help people.
01:00:32
Speaker 3: They pray on that. So please, if you feel that your your family or yourself is praying victim to this, please talk to your family. Let somebody know so that you know this can be this can be wrapped up. If it sounds too good to be true, I promise you that it is right. So well, yes, in any capacity, in right, but.
01:00:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, even in crypto too.
01:00:56
Speaker 3: If they ask you to send bitcoin, bitcoin or gift card car and it's usually like GameStop gift cards, are Walgreens gift cards, any kind of gift card, Apple pay gift cards, those are really big.
01:01:08
Speaker 2: Don't send them. Do not send them. It's a scam. I promise it's a scam.
01:01:13
Speaker 6: Well listen, stick around because after the break, we're gonna go into a friend of Lynette Hookers.
01:01:20
Speaker 2: She is the woman who is still.
01:01:22
Speaker 6: Missing in the Bahamas and her friend is speaking out about the husband, Brian's allegedly suspicious behavior. True Crime Tonight.
01:01:42
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney and Body. Listen, we have a talk back to get to all things Bahamas. We still have not found Lynette Hooker. You'll remember she's the wife and mother who was at sea or on a boat with her husband, Brian Hooker, who has claimed to know nothing about the incident other than it was very tragic where she fell off the boat allegedly with the key to the boat in her pocket and has yet to be found. The boat has been taken into custody, into US custody. The Bahamas authorities are still investigating, but no Lynette Hooker has been found. And for her daughter and her family, it's just incredibly tragic. And we have a little bit of an update now because one of her friends is speaking out. So before we get there, though, let's go to a talkback. I'm walking my.
01:02:42
Speaker 9: Neighborhood and listening on Tenda Needles because it's very interesting this whole Bahamas case number one. Is it too late to find any evidence on that boat? Maybe not, because they can tell if there's clean up, hopefully. I have a lot of questions because they didn't initially think criminal. So there's that questions in my brain. Keep up the good work.
01:03:03
Speaker 2: We have the same questions and audience too.
01:03:06
Speaker 4: There.
01:03:06
Speaker 2: Keep that walk going high five on the walk by the way and the pins and needles. We are right there with you. Can we talk about this for a moment. I think Gina brings up a really good point. I think you know she had mentioned is it too late to find evidence?
01:03:19
Speaker 3: Right?
01:03:20
Speaker 2: I don't you know?
01:03:22
Speaker 3: We do know from talking to Joseph Scott Morgan, who is our forensics expert, right Professor Joseph Scott Morgan. You can find him at his wonderful podcast Body Bags, And one of the things that we learned from him is that, yeah, ocean and sea air can deteriorate forensic evidence, and what investigators are likely going to focus on is like a washing down of the boat, just like Gina mentioned, you know, I think that's what they're really going to focus on. Was there an exhaustive cleanup done on this boat? And you know, a month has passed since between the time one that hooker vanished and between the time the vote was basically captured by the Coast Guarden toad to that Coast Guard facility in Florida, so a month had passed. Are they going to be able to determine what happened, if anything, on that boat? I think it's really interesting.
01:04:19
Speaker 6: I think it's interesting, and I think there's a distinction between will they be able to find anything maybe and even quite possibly, However, will it then be admissible should any future trial come to bear? And that's got to be a big fat no.
01:04:36
Speaker 3: That's a really good like chain of custody is going to come into play there.
01:04:40
Speaker 2: The boat was open to you.
01:04:42
Speaker 6: Know, yeah, anyone who wanted to walk on and plant any evidence that may be found, that's right.
01:04:50
Speaker 2: I secretly am not convinced. And again this is my personal opinion. This is not based on new evidence or anything. So just you know, I'm theorizing here. It just seems in possible that how things went down according to husband Brian Hooker, happened. Is it possible that she had her life taken? God forbid, I hate him and saying this out loud, but is it possible that she had her life taken elsewhere? And this was a convenient story because again, the currents are you know, specific there. You know, as we've discussed in previous episodes, it it isn't totally uncommon that her body, if in fact she was no longer with us, would have come up to shore by now. I guess the way this particular water way is she just may never be found. But I don't think this guy is so clever to be able to pull that off. I mean, I would imagine he had to have cleaned up and this boat would have had some evidence on it, and I'm just not confident that this guy could pull it off.
01:05:51
Speaker 3: You make a good point in his friend is calling him to the carpet on that. You know, you set it up so well earlier. You know about Lena's disappearance and all that, so I need to repeat that. But you know, one of the things that has happened now is a friend of the couple recently revealed to Fox News that he was shocked to learn that Brian Hooker never activated this thirty three thousand dollars system and camera system that they have on the sailboat as part of the search. So apparently there's this thermal camera imaging system that the boat has on it that they had installed that detects a lot of things that Brian never offered up. His name is Dan Danforth and he's a friend of the couple.
01:06:37
Speaker 5: Right.
01:06:37
Speaker 3: He met them while they were I think anchored next to them at another port in the United States, I think in Louisiana and louis So they became friends. They became friends with a couple, and Dan Danforth said that he got a tour of the soul meat while you know, they were parked next to each other, and he got to see all this equipment and it included an infrared and heat camera system. He and by the way, I guess he told his friend Dan a totally different story than he told the authorities.
01:07:16
Speaker 2: That's a very big piece of invatation. Can we unpack that too, Both of these are very big pieces of information. But can we pause for a second just to untrack that, Yes, unpassed. So the device so a thirty four thousand dollars piece of equipment that's put into your boat. Again, this is expensive stuff.
01:07:33
Speaker 7: You know.
01:07:34
Speaker 2: We have Lynette and her husband, you know, Brian, who are her living their best life? Right, They're on a boat, they're at the Hired Yo Hired, They're coming and going, They're in the Bahamas, They've been to Louisiana, amongst many many places. You know, in so many scenarios, that's the American dream which is now seemingly turned into a nightmare. If he had the equipment in order to find her, why and the world would he not use that or why in the world would he not be sharing that information with authorities. Yeah.
01:08:07
Speaker 3: I'm not really familiar with what this system, the security system is, so I don't know what its capabilities are. But apparently the friend is this guy Daniel Danforth. He's familiar with what the system does, and like I said, he said he was stunned that Brian Hooker didn't offer it up as part of the search. Yeah, so, I mean, I believe that's a pretty big deal. If it's true, right, it's a pretty big deal. And you know, the story that Brian Hooker told him is is that Lynette fell and started swimming toward the sailboat. Yeah, that's what he says. Okay, this is what the friend says. And he thought it was weird that Brian immediately told authorities that she was lost at sea and that he didn't go check the sailboat immediately, right and believing all these sex messages and one thing too, he said he did confirm that he spoke to a coast guard and told them about the system. The coast guard found it very interesting and they should be able to access the history of that system on the boat. If they were close to the boat, it would have tracked entrances, exits, things of that nature, so attracts like the ins and outs of the boat, and the coastguard is saying they should be able to come up with data on that if there were any coming into comings and goings. It came with the boat. It's a high end, luxury, military grade security system. And he went on to say if I was trying to rescue someone the next day, it would have been a benefit to the rescue party. That's what it does. So the system is a pretty big deal. And the friends calling them out to the carpet, So.
01:10:01
Speaker 2: The wrong story is insane. Also, we have to like drop the mic there for a moment for him to actually have a different set of circumstances around Lynette's disappearance that are so staggeringly different the idea that he saw her swimming versus he could never find her again and actually had to go in a different direction on his own, because again, the circumstances of this is so scary. Imagine you're at sea, it's dark, You're with your beloved who falls overboard. What do you do? Do you jump in? I assume that you would jump in and try to find them, But now what does that mean? Now two people are out of the boat, now all of us are back in, and now both of us are stranded. So that wouldn't be a great call. What do you do? You panic, you scream, you yell, you and his case eventually finds his way to the shoreline, But without Lynette, you think he would be losing his mind. Where is Brian Hooker right now? I have seen peep from him either here in the US?
01:11:02
Speaker 4: Have you?
01:11:04
Speaker 3: And his lawyer isn't isn't making any statements to the press either about his whereabouts last time he did her be.
01:11:11
Speaker 2: Caring for his mother and his mother to getting tons of attention from him because again, even Mom, this is her daughter in law that has now gone missing. I don't even want to say that she's deceased because we don't know that to be true. Maybe she is safe in some place and confused. And I just would imagine that Brian and her husband would be searching for her. Yeah, I would too.
01:11:34
Speaker 3: And apparently Dan Danforth, the couple's friend, feels the same way. And you know, you mentioned the inconsistency in the story. Maybe that's why the Bahamian Police Force picked him up for those seven days. You know, he was held for questioning me due to inconsistencies in his story. Maybe that's one of them. Maybe we're just learning now what those inconsistencies were.
01:11:56
Speaker 6: Right, recently, I was talking to Jared Farantino, are a favorite prosecutor and now best selling author Murders, Mothers and Motivations. By the way, but anyway, speaking with Jared Farantino about a totally separate case, and he's like, yeah, if you start lying about the smallest things, there is a big.
01:12:19
Speaker 3: Problem, totally totally. So we're going to continue to follow this and see it through. So stay tuned for that. This is true crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all time. You want to give us a call, do please do so. We'd love to hear from you. Eight eight eight thirty one Crime on you know, pretty much any topic we've been covering.
01:12:37
Speaker 2: Let's go to a talkback right now.
01:12:39
Speaker 10: Hi, guys, Ali from Orlando. You just had the judge Michelle on I wanted to turn you onto an Instagram account called one Mom's Battle. Tina Swiften. Her goal in life in general is to educate judges and lawyers about narcissistic disorder, especially when it comes up in cases in court. She gives away free books to new lawyers who just graduated.
01:13:08
Speaker 2: I love that. Oh wow, that's major, very cool.
01:13:12
Speaker 3: That is major, because yeah, I mean you have to in order to, like, you know, uh, I imagine, introduce somebody as being a narcissist and and that's why you're fighting over custody or something. You have to introduce some kind of expert. And guess what that costs a lot of money, right, so expensive.
01:13:30
Speaker 2: It's als so impossible, and we see it now in some major cases even real time. You know, we've talked about it here so frequently, the former Dancing with the Stars, the Mormon uh Dakota and on her name Jordan, the former Bachelorette correct who her show never even aired because of this contentious you know, custody dispute that she was having with her ex and you know videos where she was behaving horribly in the presence of her child, and it obviously was very abusive, and we talked about it here where there was two sides to that. It seemed as though she was reacting to a level of abuse also from potentially a narcissist. So I think sometimes talking about these cases and unpacking them at the base level is important stuff because it's hard to really understand it unless you see it. And I think some of those cases, like even that one, as tragic as it was from the former bachelorette, seeing it was kind of staggering and took your breath away and made you mad, and you can sort of now see how that can happen. And yes, here's to our fantastic judge, she really knows how to bring home the information. Judge Michelle.
01:14:49
Speaker 6: Speaking, I wanted to brag on Ava for one hot second, and this relates back to things that are going on in the court. Ava, would you share a little bit of what you said last week?
01:15:02
Speaker 8: Yes, I as I am a producer of True Crime Tonight, but I'm also a listener and I was so inspired by a guess that we had on a couple months ago. I'm forgetting her name right now, but she works with an organization called KASA, which stands for I'm blanking.
01:15:20
Speaker 2: Court Appointed Special Advocates, thank you.
01:15:24
Speaker 8: And it's essentially people who are go through a long training process in order to be able to support foster children as they're navigating the court system. So it's not just lawyers kind of arguing for one side or another or everyone kind of is there that are getting paid. It's their job, and you know, foster children kind of want to have someone who is there because they care about them, not because of their dogs care about them. And so this guest was talking about specifically how foster children are so much more likely to fall into the criminal justice, some in a really negative way because they just have so little support.
01:16:03
Speaker 2: So I foster children are kind of like a soft spot in my heart.
01:16:06
Speaker 8: A really cool friend of mine grew up as a like in a foster home. So anyway, I I went to like the first training, So did you really a long application process and you have to like have all these references and get approved by the courts and all that stuff. But we're gonna we're gonna see.
01:16:23
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so proud of step one.
01:16:27
Speaker 6: I'm so proud of the interest You've got saved three recommendations right.
01:16:32
Speaker 2: Here and start there planning on it.
01:16:37
Speaker 6: But it's incredibly cool.
01:16:40
Speaker 2: Because, yeah, you're right.
01:16:42
Speaker 3: We learned a lot about the foster care system that day, and I was very surprised to learn that it's considered kind of a pipeline to prison. Yes, you know, I had no idea. So you're going to be changing someone's life at least.
01:16:57
Speaker 2: Oh you're going to get approved. I wouldn't you. You're perfect? You're perfect? Agree, Thanks guy? Perfect? Well, stick around, we've got more to dig into. We're going to play some more of your talk. That's when we returned keep it right here, True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We've been talking true crime all the time. Happy Memorial Day weekend. We hope you guys have been having a great one. I'm Steph here with Courtney and Body and let's go to we're talking about.
01:17:34
Speaker 11: Ananda from Mississippi. I'm listening to the show where he has Jarrett Garantina line, you guys are talking about representing yourself in court, and I gave old one body said she would do it because I actually did do it for Stephen Took and I was doing so good until the very end whenever she straight up asked me Bossuton the city and they were like, okay, but were you Steeden And I was like, I don't recall.
01:17:58
Speaker 7: Judge was like, oh.
01:18:00
Speaker 11: Yeah, he got you. So anyway, he only charged me twenty dollars for the speeding ticket instead of like it would have been like a four hundred dollars ticket, So I s metically one. I was okay with that and it was worth it to me, so give.
01:18:14
Speaker 7: It a shot.
01:18:16
Speaker 2: Give it a shot. By the way, that was a three hundred and eighty dollars savings. And I appreciate the honesty, you know, like I don't reply under oath.
01:18:25
Speaker 3: That was great, But listen, I probably would When I say I would do it, I mean for like something like that. I don't think I would do it if I was you know, facing serious charges, right, because first of all, I'm not qualified in any capacity to represent anyone, including myself, and especially if I'm innocent. Can you imagine I go to prison because I didn't do things or I didn't felt the right form and I would do something like that. So if it's something stupid like a speeding ticket or a parking ticket, yeah criminally, Uh, no way, I'm getting a lawyer, No way, Jose. But good for you for saving yourself all that money.
01:19:07
Speaker 2: I think you should be very proud of yourself for showing up and doing all the things, and yeah, having a good lawyer accounts. But if you can swing it by yourself. Have you guys ever seen that video? It's like a viral video on Instagram or something where and I think we've talked about it before. I don't know why. I find it's so so funny where the man gets pulled over for allegedly drunk driving and the police officer is a female and she, rather than making him count or do the alphabet, she makes him like do a dance and she does her own little kickball chain little dance and she's like.
01:19:38
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I think it's Reno nine one one. Isn't it from that show?
01:19:43
Speaker 2: I don't know it's real. No, no, it's real, it's not. I'm gonna find it right now, let's look, let's look, see it's real right now. No, it's not Ai, it's a skit. And then he does the dance and at the end he was like, not bad for a drunk.
01:19:58
Speaker 3: I think it's Rena on nine one one. I think it's a TV show.
01:20:01
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. I don't think so well, I'm I'm wrong often.
01:20:05
Speaker 3: So it's funny and it's great. It's funny and it's great. It doesn't matter. Yeah, if it's really or not, it's funny and it's great. But yeah, that would be me a hundred percent. I think do a little kickball team trying to sway.
01:20:17
Speaker 2: The judge to let me go, let me go. Yeah, you have another talk back?
01:20:24
Speaker 4: Hey, Oh it's Flita from Virginia. I just wanted to say that I just finished watching The Crash and oh my goodness, at the end of that movie, I cried and cried.
01:20:41
Speaker 2: That smile on.
01:20:44
Speaker 4: Those boys faces, Oh my goodness.
01:20:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really sad story.
01:20:52
Speaker 3: I mean three young people essentially, you know, I mean two lost their life and one is not getting out of her anytime soon. So three young lives basically ended. It's it's horrific. It's a horrific story.
01:21:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's it's referring back to a Netflix documentary called The Crash And there was a girl seventeen at the time, Mackenzie Shrilla, who was driving at one hundred miles an hour when she crashed her car into like directly into a wall, and very sadly that resulted in the death of her boyfriend Dominic Russo and their friend Davian Flanagan. And it talks, you know, what it does is explore that case. And yes, you are correct that they're smiling faces of the now deceased boys or will wrench any heart.
01:21:48
Speaker 3: But you know, last week we were talking about like the family wasn't represented, but the sister, his sister, I can't remember whose sister it was, but she was excellent.
01:22:01
Speaker 2: I thought so too. And they have now had video, even some BODYCM video of the parents being told about the loss of their children, and it's awful like hearing that real time and mom and dad's reaction or even in one particular case, mom's reaction is so heart wrenching. By the way, you guys were right, were youno nine to one one? Yeah? I stand was Wait, so this was completely scripted.
01:22:29
Speaker 3: Listen, you can't be in the world when you get When you get older, I'm making you give me all your.
01:22:34
Speaker 2: Credit cards and Courtney knows all of my passwords.
01:22:38
Speaker 4: I say.
01:22:39
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, the light over one, two, three, exclamation point. I had to change it at some point. No, yeah, that is terrible, Tom Selleck, do not call me. I'll give you all my money.
01:22:57
Speaker 4: If somebody called me.
01:22:58
Speaker 2: It was like ava something and you got to see it right now and don't tell anybody because she can't get in trouble. I'd be like, oh, I'm up, I'm good. I'll keep this secret to the day I die and listen in cash no problem. And then there you are down the rabbit hole getting screwed. Yeah, anyway, that's what hap continue. Yes, and the crash. Have you guys watched it yet? Yes? I watched it. What do you guys think? Was she guilty or innocent? I think she's guilty.
01:23:24
Speaker 3: But again I know that you know, uh that this is a Netflix document. They probably left some things out right because you can't fit everything in, right, you.
01:23:34
Speaker 2: Can have You only had so much time.
01:23:35
Speaker 3: You only have so much time. And I haven't gone through the case personally and looked at any documents or anything like that. But it's the documentary itself seemed pretty convincing to me. But if I'm just going on that, which I rarely do, then yeah, I think she's guilty.
01:23:51
Speaker 2: But I'd have to look personally. Let's get another talk back or actually, but yeah.
01:24:00
Speaker 12: Hey everyone, I just wanted to do a quick comment on Steve Shrilla from The Crash. He can complain all he wants about the film's editing, but nobody made him wear a shirt that says boom on it when it's a documentary about someone who died in a car crash. Mister tone death.
01:24:20
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, Yes, yeah, could not agree more.
01:24:26
Speaker 3: And we talked about this kind of you know, you guys make documentaries. I was in a documentary, so we know you know from first hand experience how wardrobe works. Right, you wear what you want and they say, yeah, you're nay to that in most cases. Right, he showed up to that documentary shoot wearing a boom shirt. Now, this is the father of Mackenzie Shrilla, the woman accused of murder in that horrific car crash. If you're the father of her and you're trying to proclaim her innocence, wouldn't you wear like a nice button up or tie even show some respect. This guy's wearing a shirt with boom on it. Tone deaf is an understatement.
01:25:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true. Tone deaf times a thousand.
01:25:12
Speaker 6: Yeah, I totally agree with I'll talk about you got.
01:25:17
Speaker 2: Some DM Let's get some dms going AVA. Yes, okay, I love oh last bit she Those dms are coming close. But while we're waiting on AVA with a little bit of a tech issue, Oh there she is.
01:25:35
Speaker 8: I wanted to read some of the dms that I get because I'm special when I get to have them on my phone. And we got some really nice ones in the past couple of week days that I don't think you guys have seen yet, so I wanted to share the first one.
01:25:48
Speaker 2: It's very timely.
01:25:49
Speaker 8: We got a DM from Julie who said, hey, True Crime besties, I'm over here building my crime com schedule and in all caps, body, where.
01:25:58
Speaker 2: Are you Julie? So cute?
01:26:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm apparently Courtney and Taha and I are going to be at crime Con.
01:26:10
Speaker 2: It starts Thursday.
01:26:11
Speaker 3: There's a lot there's like a nineties launch party on Thursday night that I'm going to, and then on Friday and Saturday, I'm gonna be running around, you know whatever. But Saturday nights, I am presenting a Clue Award for I believe it's best TV Documentary series. So I will definitely be at the Clue Awards and I'll be presenting there and I'll be wearing a maybe a fancy dress. I probably won't be wearing heels for sure, So I got to figure something out that I can wear the award show. And Courtney, you should probably probably bring something fancy to wear.
01:26:50
Speaker 2: Two.
01:26:51
Speaker 3: Oh, I think Courtney might be my plus one. I think Courtney might be my plus one. I'm asking her out live on the air.
01:27:00
Speaker 2: Oh what and not, by the way, you guys should definitely wear flats and you're going I care. I'm gonna be so there in spirit, but yeah, body is like the mayor of Crime Con, sosay there looking fabulous and running a butt. And I can't imagine Taha and Courtney in tow It's going to be quite the scene.
01:27:23
Speaker 3: I'm going to such a thing, and I want to tell everybody, if you're not used to Las Vegas in the summer, make sure you bring chapstick. Number one most important thing that you can bring chapstick in some lotion.
01:27:35
Speaker 2: It is dry.
01:27:36
Speaker 3: We have like almost no humidity, and if you're from like Florida or something, you're gonna die with another. Your skin is going to crack, your lips are gonna hurt. You might even get a bloody nose.
01:27:47
Speaker 6: I was going to say, bring a little nose spray along with that chapstick, not to get common off. Yes, common off a plane and then being in Vegas with the air conditioning to heat the dry.
01:27:59
Speaker 3: A lot of people ry show out bloody noses. Yeah, so just you know and listen. Dressed casually. I'm going to be wearing like Vans tennis shoes on, like a sun dress. I ain't getting dressed up.
01:28:10
Speaker 2: Wait, did you get a bloody nose getting off the plane because it's so hot and dry. I always assumed people in Las Vegas that were getting bloody noses, we're all doing drugs.
01:28:18
Speaker 4: No.
01:28:18
Speaker 6: I would kind of joke because I would get a bloody nose every time I went, and I I have actually never do.
01:28:25
Speaker 2: Not on that list. I know people who are rounding around running a rampant doing drugs in Vegas. So seriously, you would get that from just the dry air well because you just you don't have those moistures that you're used to, and your skin cracks a little bit. Depends on how long you're here.
01:28:42
Speaker 3: When I first moved here, I moved here in August in the nineties and the late nineties, and it was like one hundred and twelve degrees one hundred and seventeen something like that. And that first week I was here, I was so sick from it being so hot and dry, and I came from the California coast where it's it's like a little bit of humidity, very tepid, and so when I got here, my skin and my nose, oh, and I had cracked lips. I had never experienced anything like that before. So bring some chrapstick, you guys. Let's go to another DM.
01:29:16
Speaker 8: Yeah, okay, so this one's really nice. I can't wait for you guys to hear it. So this is a DM from Tanja and she's a classic. She's part of our true creme checker. She says, Hello, TCT crew, It's Tanja from just outside Nashville. I don't have a comment on any specific topics. I just want to say that as a listener from episode one, you guys are all caps the best podcast out there. I think so because each of you have such distinct personalities that compliment each other so well. Okay, then here we go with the specific compliments. Stephanie and her eternal optimism is refreshing body with her analytical and beautiful mind, and Coordny with her just the facts, and then I will form an opinion mindset. You formed the perfect team taha. Sam and Adam included. And can I just say I love Courtney's laugh and when she says be good or be good at it, it just makes my day. Sorry for the long DM, but one final note, I love my allegedly allegedly allegedly sweatshirt. Maybe next time around you something with oof.
01:30:15
Speaker 2: You guys so nice and is so lovely. We have the nicest crew.
01:30:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was so nice, and I think that I think that we do make a good team. We're so different, all of us, right, but we respect each other's opinions. We let each other have their voice. Yeah, and I think we do compliment one another. And I feel like, you know, she was so on spot, Stephanie with her eternal optimism. Oh it's a force of literal force of nature. Like she's always so kind and giving and thoughtful. And of course Courtney, she's very stoic. She just sits back and waits for the facts, lets them come in, and then and only then once she knows everything does she form a very educated opinion.
01:31:09
Speaker 2: And I respect the of that mm hmmm. And then you also analyzing the world. I mean again, we all bring different things at the table, but that's all. We have the fun and all of you listeners who have been participating so kindly, I mean, we can't say enough great things. So thank you for being so devoted. Yes, thank you very much.
01:31:28
Speaker 6: It's very cool that we get to be part of your days. It's like a real cool honor that we do. And thank you for reaching out.
01:31:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. What should we do now? One more? DM? Can we sneaky sneak?
01:31:44
Speaker 8: This one's This one's for body too, it says, well, I think body will appreciate it. This is Liz from Washington, originally from Michigan. She has a dog named Annie Arber. DM goes from Annie Arber's Instagram account, just largely Staddy arbor House grown Instagram account. And she said, I just want to let Boddy know that Detroit officially announced it's getting a PWHL team, and I don't know what this means at all. And while she could keep her v g K for the men, she's better Detroit fan for the women.
01:32:18
Speaker 2: What does that mean? Okay?
01:32:20
Speaker 3: So it's the Professional Women's Hockey League, Okay.
01:32:23
Speaker 2: And we got one in Vegas too. It's it's it's branching out.
01:32:27
Speaker 3: And by the way, Vegas Golden Knights are playing in the Western Conference Final against the Colorado Avalanche right now. I literally have the game on my phone. I'm looking at it because we might win the Stanley Cup. But listen, Detroit Red Wings my number one team, number one team, Detroit Win Wings.
01:32:42
Speaker 2: BGK is number two. That's so exciting. I go the distance, sending good vibes, definitely sending good vibes. Thank you everybody for being with us tonight. We'll be back on Tuesday and have the best Memorial Day, hopefully proper time off, and we are sending a proverbial hug to all of you, have a good good night, good night,
