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So much more data.
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Much more data, but at the end, it's not just for the engineer, for the companies,
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and to maintain the trend, but also for the benefit of the passengers.
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Hello, I'm Giles Gherson, and this is Toronto Talks, the voice of Toronto's business community.
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What are we talking about?
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Each episode is a conversation with top business leaders about how they're shaping growth,
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driving competitiveness, and building up our economy.
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It's about what they believe it will take to make sure the Toronto region remains one of the world's great global cities.
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Here's today's conversation.
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Arthur, welcome to Toronto Talks.
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Great to have you here.
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I think what's really interesting, why it's great to have you here, is Toronto is in the middle of a huge transit build-out.
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The Toronto region is, I should say, which started a number of years ago.
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We're kind of in the middle of it now.
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And the company that you represent, TransDev Canada, plays a significant role in all of this.
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It's a very important company, but hardly anybody, I imagine, knows the role you play.
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So we thought it would be really useful to have you come and talk a little bit about the role that TransDev plays in the scheme of things, in the transit world.
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And, of course, you don't just operate in Canada.
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You operate across the world.
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And so I think it's really interesting to get a sense of what experiences you've had and what you bring then to the Canadian market and the Toronto market specifically.
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So to start off, maybe tell us a little bit about Transdev and the role you play.
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I mean, just in general terms, we'll get into specifics in a minute.
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Of course.
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Transdev is the mobility company.
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So we are really a multimodal operator.
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really all modes of transportation from rail, buses, ferries, gondolas, bicycles, all modes of
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transportation. That's really the approach. We are a worldwide leader. We operate in more than 20
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countries. So all different, you know, contexts, environments, that's where we bring our value,
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our knowledge, our experience and challenges as well. And what we bring also to the Canadian
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market. And that's really unique. When you look at the global market, there is no equivalent in
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terms of private company, which are multimodal companies. So when we speak with an authority,
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with a client, could be a private one, could be a city, we can answer with all modes of
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transportation. It's not just a one-way thinking with just one mode. We look at the situation
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and we can give advice on how to manage that.
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And so, you know, when TransDev came to Canada,
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it was a very mature company and, as you said, very multimodal.
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How did it start, though?
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It presumably started with one mode, and I'm assuming in France.
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Is that right?
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Oh, we started with a really humble, you know, situation,
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with just a couple of buses around Montreal.
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Oh, in Montreal, okay.
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Yeah, in the south of Montreal.
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And then we grew the business.
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We grew the business all across Canada, so for the past eight years.
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So that was a fantastic development through RFPs, M&As as well, and organic growth.
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So we really developed the business, and now we are really in all six provinces, one territory.
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So we have a large footprint.
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So you talk about being an operator.
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I mean, that's an important word.
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I think when people think about transiting in Canada, and particularly in Toronto, you
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say, well, you've got the provincial government is responsible for the GO commuter rail system.
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The TTC is responsible for the transit system.
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They're the operators, but no, maybe not.
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Transdev plays a role.
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So what role, how do you define, can you explain a little bit about what operating a system
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means for a private company?
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In Canada, especially in Ontario, it starts by providing the drivers to find the right
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talents, find the mechanics.
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That's as simple as that, but that's complex.
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So under contract to the TTC or Metrolinx?
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Or under the contract of Metrolinx, of course.
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So we provide the workforce.
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We train the workforce.
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We find the talents.
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Sometimes we bring also and we give advice to our clients how we should design.
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That's part of some of PPP projects.
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We bring ideas.
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We challenge the projects.
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That's why some clients are asking TransDev to be in the project.
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But when you say operator, it sort of almost implies that you find, say, the workforce,
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You train the workforce, but they are still employed by the TTC or Metrolinx, no?
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Or are they employed by you?
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They are employed by us.
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Okay.
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So that's due.
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Well, to TTC.
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No, that's totally separate.
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Okay.
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So really, for project like the Azel-McAllian line, we recruit the employee, and the employee
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would be transdev employees.
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Okay.
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But they can come from everywhere.
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Right.
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Some of our workers, they come from TTC or they can come from any kind of industry.
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Okay.
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So let's think about, you know, I know one of the big projects, obviously, that is underway now is the Ontario Line, significant expansion of the subway system for Toronto.
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We see a station is being built now.
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The line is being built.
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Tunneling is taking place.
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What sort of role would you play in a project like that?
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At the early stage, and that's something that we promote a lot just to involve an operator
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like Transdev.
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At the early stage, it's great because we bring our expertise from everywhere on the place.
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So basically, we will challenge, of course, the designer on the way they do.
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So you're brought in right in the very early stages.
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Exactly.
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And I believe it brings a lot of value of PPP project.
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Because of course, it's a different point of view, of course.
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We are looking for the long term, what would be the cost, what would be the benefit for
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the passengers.
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And I believe it's pretty aligned with authorities also sometimes, because it's more long-term
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vision.
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For us, a good transit system is a transit system with a high level of ridership, a huge
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usage from the population.
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That would be a successful one.
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And that matters for us.
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So all the KPIs around that, the safety KPIs, the on-time performance, the commercial speed
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will matter a lot because we know that will play a big role for the ridership.
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But not only that, because as I said, we are a multimodal operator.
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So we always think about all the modes of transportation around the backbone.
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It's not just the backbone.
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If we want that the backbone works, we need to have around that a good network of bus,
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a good network of last mine, first mine, everything should work if we want that big system work.
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Now, Arthur, presumably, if I'm the TTC, I'm responsible for the Ontario line being built,
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along with the provincial government, Metrolinks, I also want to maximize the use of it.
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I want as many passengers as I can get.
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I'm interested in all the things that you've just mentioned.
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So where would you come in and say, here's an idea, or here is something we discovered in another city
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that you might want to think about here?
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I'm thinking that's how you're kind of expressing it.
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What would be some of the things that you would bring to a project like this?
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As an example, we brought the signaling question topic, as you may know.
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Big issue here.
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That's a challenge.
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But that's also an opportunity for lots, the transit project.
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For faster headways.
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Exactly.
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You spoke during the transit symposium about that.
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But that's a key challenge.
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It's a quick win.
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It's a low-hanging fruit.
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Just if we standardize with signaling for LRTs, but I would speak more about LRTs, that
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could increase the commercial speed and the benefit for the passenger.
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Of course, the passenger, they will-
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They want faster trips.
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Exactly.
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That's as simple as that.
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They want to go to point A to point B faster than with the cars.
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Yes.
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So we have to consider everything around that.
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So that's hopeful because, I mean, I think, you know, one of the projects that, you know, that was troubled, I think, for quite a while was the Eglinton Crosstown project here.
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Now it's up and running.
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I think people are very pleased with it.
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And it kind of, I think, plays a significant role in easing congestion and moving more people to transit.
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But it was a long, long project.
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And one of the things that I think that people talked about during it is issues like signaling, getting the right sort of signaling technology so that you can move these LRTs vehicles much more quickly.
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Again, I believe the question is just the early involvement of an operator.
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And the operator, you know, at the early stage of each major project, we should have an operator.
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But not just as an advisor, the operator who will really operate.
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Well, you're going to use it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Who will be accountable for the transition.
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It's not a true region that we plan projects without the operator at the table, but it sounds like we did.
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I mean, it seems to me that these projects have evolved quite substantially in terms of how they're managed and the governance of them and the planning.
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In relatively few years, it seems like they've changed quite a lot.
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But it's still hard to imagine that, say, 15 years ago when some of these projects were planned, that they didn't bring the operator in right at the start.
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But my sense is it was more sequential.
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That's correct.
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But now the game is changing.
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Yeah.
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And I believe the situation is totally different and that would be the benefit of the upcoming projects.
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So, of course, we learn also.
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We try things.
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And I believe there is a real importance now on what the operator are saying in those projects
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because we are a small piece of the stakes at the beginning, of course,
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because everything is around the building, is construction, is technology.
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But sometimes, because of that, we miss the operation piece and the passenger piece, the ridership, what would be the real efficiency, not just running a transit or just operating there, but with higher ridership, the performance, the quality of that.
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We are working around those major projects, but it should benefit the population at the end.
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As you mentioned, at the Board of Trade, we had a conference recently on multimodal transit and transportation.
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And what I want to do is bring together some of these ideas to make sure that we have a seamless system.
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I think, as you point out, one of the problems with transit can be that each part of the system works well, but doesn't connect well.
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And I think it really becomes, as I tried to say in my remarks then, you want to maximize
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the effectiveness and efficiency of the assets you do have because you're going to build new
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ones, but really to get sure to maximize the number of people using it, you want the system
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to kind of connect well.
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And you mentioned at the outset of this conversation that TransDev manages, as you said, multimodal
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systems, so trains, buses, and bicycles.
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So explain that.
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So is it what you're saying?
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I get off at the subway stop and I find a bicycle from a bike share service that you might control or operate?
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What's the connection between operating the transit system and a bicycle ride share?
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It would start with simple things.
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How long does it take to go from the bicycle station to the train station?
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How long does it take?
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Sometimes it could be more than 20 minutes.
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Okay.
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So is the one available then?
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Because you are on the path to go there is not really practical.
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And that's a key challenge.
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Sometimes it's better to just five minutes walk or even less than that.
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200 meters around the station.
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So the way we design, we implement the bicycle station is key.
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That's the same for the bus.
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The bus station should be really, really close.
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We know that each time that you change of mode,
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you can lose nearly 20% of ridership.
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So if you want to reduce this percentage,
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you have to design really closely all modes of transportation
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just to go from one mode to another one.
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So it's why the look for the upcoming project is really a global project.
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If we want that it works, really looking at what's the network design, the bus of the network design, bicycles, could be the ferries, could be the gondolas.
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Everything should be linked if we want to create really successful transit projects.
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I mean, as you know, one of the issues that the Board of Trade has been pushing is we've got fair integration now in our region, thanks to the provincial government spending a fair bit of money to underwrite a single fair system, which is terrific.
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We fought for that for a long time.
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But now we're very much asking for service integration.
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And a bit like what you're talking about, we've got many or quite a few municipal transit systems that all operate in this region, whether it's MyWay and Mississauga, whether it's the North York subway system, or the York region subway system, and Peel and so on, and then coming into Toronto itself where the TTC operates, and then the GO system operating as well as a commuter rail system.
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the schedules aren't at all connected.
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And I think one of the things we learned was that Europe,
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the European rail system is a single scheduling system,
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unified, united.
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So passengers can go from one to the next easily.
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We don't even have that in the Toronto region,
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but is that something that TransDiv can play a role in,
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for example,
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because when you're talking about a multimodal system,
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it's being able to go from a bus, as you said,
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to a subway system, to a subway.
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We can bring an added value on that. Just bringing an example how it works elsewhere,
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how it works in Europe, how it works in Australia, in the US as well. And I believe there is a strong
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benefit with a single authority, I would say, of course, to manage the phrase, as you said,
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sometimes to have the same information. Because everything we do to ease the way to use the system.
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So wayfinding, for example, is very different.
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Or we can find in Europe, like looking at transport for London.
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There is just one brand, just one site, just one fare for everybody living there.
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It's simple.
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It works.
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The population doesn't care who is doing the job.
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They care how it's simple it is for them just to go to A to B.
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That's the goal.
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That's really the goal.
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So everything that we are doing collectively and we need to, all the stakeholders will play a positive and will have a positive impact for the population.
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When you look at the transit system in the Toronto region, what are the big gaps then to you in terms of a well-functioning multimodal system that could maximize usage?
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And obviously, maximizing usage reduces congestion on our roads.
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So there's a huge benefit to that.
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There are a lot of wonderful and great projects ongoing.
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So it's coming.
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It's really coming.
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And you talk about Ontario and Ontario will bring a lot of added value for the population
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and in terms of commercial speed to move from a place to another.
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So lots of great things.
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Maybe we can do a bit better in terms of integration.
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Yeah.
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That seems to be the big issue.
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A bit more.
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A bit more.
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So thinking and be on the population side, just seamless on the fares, I believe it's really a great initiative.
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We just push more and more, even maybe on the information side.
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Well, information is key.
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Yeah, and the difference, I think right now, GO system, TTC, the different municipal transit agencies all have different wayfinding.
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So it's not common.
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So if you're a passenger, you're not going to see the same kind of information across the system.
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It'll be different each time you cross a municipal border, basically.
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And I think that's what you're alluding to.
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So it would be a benefit.
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And it would be a benefit.
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That's not from transit, but we are saying that, you know, lots of major authorities across the world,
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they are just one single website, just to say, or one single hub.
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I believe that something will play a positive role, a positive impact for Toronto.
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That's a given.
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Right.
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Now, as the operator of the Ontario line, when it is up and running, which is probably five or six years away now, but time is marching on, we're going to have driverless trains.
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These are going to be, in a sense, automated trains, which you see around the world, but I think relatively new here.
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Talk a little bit about that.
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That's going to be a new thing for the TTC system, I think, to have driverless trains.
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But I think what it means is a fully automated system can move much more quickly.
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I think that's the logic.
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Really?
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Ontario will be really a showroom that's, you know, the high end in terms of transit system.
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Do you have a way for it just to be a bit more technical?
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So everything is automatized.
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You have screen doors.
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You can increase the number of trains per hour by 30%.
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Really?
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That's huge.
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That's really improving when you have-
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Because you know their safety.
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So the driver or the train coming in, there's no likelihood anybody's going to do anything.
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Exactly.
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So he can move more quickly.
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Right now, the trains, as you know, the TTC is always interesting.
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They come in very slowly into the station.
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Yeah, for safety reasons.
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For safety reasons.
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But there's long pauses through a station, right?
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Exactly.
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The amount of time spent in a station is actually quite long.
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So that will really improve, especially for rush hour,
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whether you have a major event when it's crowded.
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Yeah.
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It will improve a lot.
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So you have more safety.
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you will have more frequency for the train, more capacity.
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So really something really, you know, the high end,
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even in North America, that would be, we can be proud of that.
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Well, that's going to be exciting.
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And again, really interesting because on the interior line,
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you'll have essentially very different trains with, as you said,
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on the stations, you have these screens preventing people
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from getting to the train until the train has arrived.
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You'll have signaling that's much quicker.
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You'll have automated trains, very different from the rest, from lines, say, one and two.
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Does that work well to have sort of very different systems on different lines of a subway system?
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Does that happen in other cities?
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Of course.
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Of course.
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That's continuous improvement.
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Okay.
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And we have to deal with innovation, even in this kind of project.
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Every year you have new innovation coming, and we have to consider, like, AI.
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That AI is also a piece of innovation in the Ontario line.
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We will have the capacity.
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We will collect the data.
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We can anticipate any cracks in the rail.
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We will have the opportunity to reduce the service interruption, which would benefit again for the passengers.
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So preventative maintenance, preventative...
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Exactly. Everything is around that.
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We can monitor pretty much everything on the train, which is also new.
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So much more data.
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Much more data.
321
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But at the end, it's not just for the engineer, for the companies.
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and to well maintain the train, but also for the benefit of the passengers.
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Reduce the service interruption is the key element.
324
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Oh, absolutely.
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Punctuality is a top priority also for the passengers.
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So we'll see, I think, something very different than when the interior line opens
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in terms of speed of the trains, the way they come into the station and leave the station,
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the amount of time they spend in the station, the headway,
329
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which is the time gap between trains, will be shorter, it sounds like.
330
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Exactly. Just to give you an example, on the line one,
331
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the commercial speed is around 30 kilometers.
332
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In Ontario, it would be 40 kilometers.
333
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Okay.
334
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So it's much more faster.
335
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And you see that in Europe.
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I mean, I think people, it's interesting.
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I mean, I was in London recently.
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I was in Paris earlier in the year.
339
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And it does strike you that the trains come into the station quite quickly.
340
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They open the doors.
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People get in.
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They shut the doors.
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Off they go quite quickly compared to here where it kind of seems more leisurely.
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And part of it is, I think, on large portions of the system now, we've got fairly old signaling.
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So there's safety reasons why they have to slow down for certain periods.
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But then when they come into the station, as I've said, they come in quite slowly.
347
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And it seems like a long pause.
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It doesn't seem like you're in a hurry.
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It seems more like, you know, more leisurely, as I say.
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So that will be different.
351
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That will be quite exciting, I think.
352
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Oh, definitely.
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That will bring a lot.
354
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Definitely.
355
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Because, again, it's the high end in terms of transit system, you know, GOA4.
356
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So it's really the last version.
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But Arthur, it's going to be interesting because once the interior line is open
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and people experience this kind of faster movement,
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I think there'll be pressure, I'm assuming, on lines one and two for people to say,
360
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well, you know, why do I not have this?
361
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Why is it so much slower on these lines?
362
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I mean, I can assume that there'll be a lot of pressure to upgrade those systems.
363
00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:25,200
Yeah, and, you know, all the big cities around the world, they are doing that.
364
00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:33,200
sub-ruade on all the metro lines just to bring them to a GOA4, so the high end in terms of automation.
365
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Right.
366
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It's fascinating.
367
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Last thing.
368
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We're running out of time here, but this is a great conversation.
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I know that you mentioned when you talked about multimodal, you said gondolas.
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And I know that in Europe and in some other places, gondolas are becoming a form of transit,
371
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not just to go up a mountainside for tourists, but actually to move commuters.
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is there a prospect of that in a city like Toronto?
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Oh, I really believe.
374
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Where would we, could you imagine one, for example?
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On the first one, I would imagine it would be
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from the Toronto center to the island,
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just in the front.
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It could be a way just,
379
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not just to replace the ferries,
380
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but just in complement.
381
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Yeah.
382
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And that brings a lot.
383
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:17,980
It brings, you know,
384
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as a transportation mode,
385
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but it's also something which could be iconic
386
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for a city.
387
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The difference between, I would say, an LRT and a Gordola system,
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a Gordola system is five times cheaper.
389
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:33,540
- Five times cheaper?
390
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,420
- Five times cheaper.
391
00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:36,240
It's faster. - Well, there's no tunneling.
392
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- No tunneling.
393
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It's faster to build.
394
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So if you want to go fast, if you want to go cheap,
395
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if you want to be effective, it makes sense.
396
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But it's--
397
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- Does it have the passengers, the number of passengers?
398
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- The passenger, it's a bit lower than the LRT system.
399
00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:55,080
But still, depending.
400
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,900
So, of course, everything is around making the case around the transit system,
401
00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:02,940
what would be the ridership, what are the targets.
402
00:24:03,580 --> 00:24:06,560
But sometimes it makes sense just to look at the different modes of transportation.
403
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,820
As I told you, you know, Transdev, we bring all the solutions, all modes of transportation.
404
00:24:12,010 --> 00:24:14,260
And we are not, you know, stuck in one mode.
405
00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:18,240
I believe that we need to have the discussion with the authority.
406
00:24:19,180 --> 00:24:21,060
What's the final goal for the authority?
407
00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:27,640
Except if you're going to do different transit, if you're going to think outside the box and think about different transit systems, you need to plan for that.
408
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:29,740
So, for example, you think about the waterfront here.
409
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We're building buildings, you know, all up and down Queen's Cay.
410
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A gondola system, I'm assuming, if we were to think about that, five times cheaper.
411
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,880
But presumably the gondola system would have to do a loop.
412
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Is there space here for that?
413
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Or we already used up all that space?
414
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:47,160
I'm not, you know, I can't.
415
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,060
I can't as well, you know, like that.
416
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,960
But I'm just thinking that if you want to plan something.
417
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,220
I believe it's a system really flexible.
418
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Yeah.
419
00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:56,460
And by the way, most of the big cities,
420
00:24:56,460 --> 00:24:59,040
they are using this system when you have tracks,
421
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:00,900
rivers to cross,
422
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,120
when you have really challenging environments
423
00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:08,400
where launching an LRT system,
424
00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:09,700
it's complex or costly.
425
00:25:10,420 --> 00:25:13,800
So it makes a lot of sense when we are closer in a river,
426
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when you have limits.
427
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,500
We've got tracks here,
428
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and if you're crossing from the center of Toronto,
429
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:20,840
like the core of Toronto,
430
00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:23,760
even Front Street to get to
431
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Queens Quay for example
432
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,660
you're crossing the Gardner, you're crossing
433
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,800
railway tracks and so on, I mean they're overhead
434
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:30,220
but
435
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,500
it's not a huge distance
436
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:35,840
but would something have gone to
437
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,920
lower for something like that or do you need longer
438
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:39,300
distances like to the island?
439
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,360
No, definitely
440
00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:43,200
there's always
441
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,680
we need to find a balance in each project
442
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,800
of course when it's too short
443
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,799
you can't really leverage sometimes
444
00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:53,260
a transit system. It's like doing a LRT of two kilometers.
445
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Not worth it.
446
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:54,500
Make no sense.
447
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:54,740
Yeah.
448
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:59,640
So we need to provide an added value on that. So of course, we have to think about that,
449
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:04,800
just throwing the ideas. We need to make the analysis, but it could make sense depending on
450
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how you want to design that, how long, what would be when you start the line, where it's ending.
451
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:12,920
Interesting.
452
00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:18,419
Yeah. But definitely makes sense. And it's happening in a lot of the cities. It could
453
00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:23,060
make sense it's not just one one size well i think the cost of transit we we did a study i mean the
454
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,140
cost of transit is rising very rapidly i think it's close to you know toronto now it's close to a
455
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:32,400
billion dollars a kilometer so if you could do it five times cheaper yeah to get the you know to get
456
00:26:32,410 --> 00:26:37,780
the benefit uh for passengers i think that would be worth looking at and that's the same for the
457
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,520
operation by the way as well okay not right of course because it's far less complex yeah right
458
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:44,880
Arthur, thank you
459
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,340
great conversation, really enjoyed the conversation
460
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,620
it looks like the sky's the limit
461
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,840
in terms of transit if we're talking about gondolas
462
00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:53,620
but as well
463
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:55,740
we're obviously looking forward to the Ontario Line
464
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,440
coming here and what the benefits
465
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that's going to bring, so great work
466
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,080
and glad to have TransDev
467
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:03,740
involved in the
468
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operation of our transit system here
469
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:06,400
Thank you so much
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00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,980
Thanks for listening to Toronto Talks
471
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:11,600
conversations with the leaders
472
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shaping the region's economy.
473
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Follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
474
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ご視聴ありがとうございました
00:00:00,020 --> 00:00:00,860
So much more data.
2
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Much more data, but at the end, it's not just for the engineer, for the companies,
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and to maintain the trend, but also for the benefit of the passengers.
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Hello, I'm Giles Gherson, and this is Toronto Talks, the voice of Toronto's business community.
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What are we talking about?
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Each episode is a conversation with top business leaders about how they're shaping growth,
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driving competitiveness, and building up our economy.
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It's about what they believe it will take to make sure the Toronto region remains one of the world's great global cities.
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Here's today's conversation.
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Arthur, welcome to Toronto Talks.
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Great to have you here.
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I think what's really interesting, why it's great to have you here, is Toronto is in the middle of a huge transit build-out.
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The Toronto region is, I should say, which started a number of years ago.
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We're kind of in the middle of it now.
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And the company that you represent, TransDev Canada, plays a significant role in all of this.
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It's a very important company, but hardly anybody, I imagine, knows the role you play.
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So we thought it would be really useful to have you come and talk a little bit about the role that TransDev plays in the scheme of things, in the transit world.
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And, of course, you don't just operate in Canada.
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You operate across the world.
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And so I think it's really interesting to get a sense of what experiences you've had and what you bring then to the Canadian market and the Toronto market specifically.
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So to start off, maybe tell us a little bit about Transdev and the role you play.
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I mean, just in general terms, we'll get into specifics in a minute.
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Of course.
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Transdev is the mobility company.
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So we are really a multimodal operator.
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really all modes of transportation from rail, buses, ferries, gondolas, bicycles, all modes of
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transportation. That's really the approach. We are a worldwide leader. We operate in more than 20
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countries. So all different, you know, contexts, environments, that's where we bring our value,
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our knowledge, our experience and challenges as well. And what we bring also to the Canadian
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market. And that's really unique. When you look at the global market, there is no equivalent in
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terms of private company, which are multimodal companies. So when we speak with an authority,
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with a client, could be a private one, could be a city, we can answer with all modes of
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transportation. It's not just a one-way thinking with just one mode. We look at the situation
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and we can give advice on how to manage that.
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And so, you know, when TransDev came to Canada,
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it was a very mature company and, as you said, very multimodal.
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How did it start, though?
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It presumably started with one mode, and I'm assuming in France.
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Is that right?
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Oh, we started with a really humble, you know, situation,
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with just a couple of buses around Montreal.
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Oh, in Montreal, okay.
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Yeah, in the south of Montreal.
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And then we grew the business.
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We grew the business all across Canada, so for the past eight years.
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So that was a fantastic development through RFPs, M&As as well, and organic growth.
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So we really developed the business, and now we are really in all six provinces, one territory.
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So we have a large footprint.
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So you talk about being an operator.
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I mean, that's an important word.
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I think when people think about transiting in Canada, and particularly in Toronto, you
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say, well, you've got the provincial government is responsible for the GO commuter rail system.
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The TTC is responsible for the transit system.
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They're the operators, but no, maybe not.
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Transdev plays a role.
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So what role, how do you define, can you explain a little bit about what operating a system
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means for a private company?
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In Canada, especially in Ontario, it starts by providing the drivers to find the right
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talents, find the mechanics.
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That's as simple as that, but that's complex.
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So under contract to the TTC or Metrolinx?
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Or under the contract of Metrolinx, of course.
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So we provide the workforce.
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We train the workforce.
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We find the talents.
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Sometimes we bring also and we give advice to our clients how we should design.
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That's part of some of PPP projects.
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We bring ideas.
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We challenge the projects.
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That's why some clients are asking TransDev to be in the project.
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But when you say operator, it sort of almost implies that you find, say, the workforce,
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You train the workforce, but they are still employed by the TTC or Metrolinx, no?
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Or are they employed by you?
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They are employed by us.
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Okay.
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So that's due.
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Well, to TTC.
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No, that's totally separate.
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Okay.
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So really, for project like the Azel-McAllian line, we recruit the employee, and the employee
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would be transdev employees.
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Okay.
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But they can come from everywhere.
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Right.
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Some of our workers, they come from TTC or they can come from any kind of industry.
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Okay.
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So let's think about, you know, I know one of the big projects, obviously, that is underway now is the Ontario Line, significant expansion of the subway system for Toronto.
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We see a station is being built now.
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The line is being built.
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Tunneling is taking place.
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What sort of role would you play in a project like that?
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At the early stage, and that's something that we promote a lot just to involve an operator
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like Transdev.
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At the early stage, it's great because we bring our expertise from everywhere on the place.
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So basically, we will challenge, of course, the designer on the way they do.
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So you're brought in right in the very early stages.
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Exactly.
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And I believe it brings a lot of value of PPP project.
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Because of course, it's a different point of view, of course.
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We are looking for the long term, what would be the cost, what would be the benefit for
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the passengers.
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And I believe it's pretty aligned with authorities also sometimes, because it's more long-term
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vision.
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For us, a good transit system is a transit system with a high level of ridership, a huge
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usage from the population.
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That would be a successful one.
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And that matters for us.
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So all the KPIs around that, the safety KPIs, the on-time performance, the commercial speed
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will matter a lot because we know that will play a big role for the ridership.
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But not only that, because as I said, we are a multimodal operator.
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So we always think about all the modes of transportation around the backbone.
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It's not just the backbone.
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If we want that the backbone works, we need to have around that a good network of bus,
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a good network of last mine, first mine, everything should work if we want that big system work.
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Now, Arthur, presumably, if I'm the TTC, I'm responsible for the Ontario line being built,
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along with the provincial government, Metrolinks, I also want to maximize the use of it.
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I want as many passengers as I can get.
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I'm interested in all the things that you've just mentioned.
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So where would you come in and say, here's an idea, or here is something we discovered in another city
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that you might want to think about here?
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I'm thinking that's how you're kind of expressing it.
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What would be some of the things that you would bring to a project like this?
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As an example, we brought the signaling question topic, as you may know.
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Big issue here.
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That's a challenge.
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But that's also an opportunity for lots, the transit project.
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For faster headways.
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Exactly.
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You spoke during the transit symposium about that.
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But that's a key challenge.
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It's a quick win.
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It's a low-hanging fruit.
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Just if we standardize with signaling for LRTs, but I would speak more about LRTs, that
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could increase the commercial speed and the benefit for the passenger.
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Of course, the passenger, they will-
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They want faster trips.
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Exactly.
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That's as simple as that.
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They want to go to point A to point B faster than with the cars.
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Yes.
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So we have to consider everything around that.
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So that's hopeful because, I mean, I think, you know, one of the projects that, you know, that was troubled, I think, for quite a while was the Eglinton Crosstown project here.
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Now it's up and running.
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I think people are very pleased with it.
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And it kind of, I think, plays a significant role in easing congestion and moving more people to transit.
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But it was a long, long project.
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And one of the things that I think that people talked about during it is issues like signaling, getting the right sort of signaling technology so that you can move these LRTs vehicles much more quickly.
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Again, I believe the question is just the early involvement of an operator.
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And the operator, you know, at the early stage of each major project, we should have an operator.
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But not just as an advisor, the operator who will really operate.
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Well, you're going to use it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Who will be accountable for the transition.
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It's not a true region that we plan projects without the operator at the table, but it sounds like we did.
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I mean, it seems to me that these projects have evolved quite substantially in terms of how they're managed and the governance of them and the planning.
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In relatively few years, it seems like they've changed quite a lot.
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But it's still hard to imagine that, say, 15 years ago when some of these projects were planned, that they didn't bring the operator in right at the start.
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But my sense is it was more sequential.
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That's correct.
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But now the game is changing.
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Yeah.
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And I believe the situation is totally different and that would be the benefit of the upcoming projects.
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So, of course, we learn also.
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We try things.
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And I believe there is a real importance now on what the operator are saying in those projects
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because we are a small piece of the stakes at the beginning, of course,
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because everything is around the building, is construction, is technology.
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But sometimes, because of that, we miss the operation piece and the passenger piece, the ridership, what would be the real efficiency, not just running a transit or just operating there, but with higher ridership, the performance, the quality of that.
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We are working around those major projects, but it should benefit the population at the end.
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As you mentioned, at the Board of Trade, we had a conference recently on multimodal transit and transportation.
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And what I want to do is bring together some of these ideas to make sure that we have a seamless system.
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I think, as you point out, one of the problems with transit can be that each part of the system works well, but doesn't connect well.
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And I think it really becomes, as I tried to say in my remarks then, you want to maximize
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the effectiveness and efficiency of the assets you do have because you're going to build new
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ones, but really to get sure to maximize the number of people using it, you want the system
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to kind of connect well.
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And you mentioned at the outset of this conversation that TransDev manages, as you said, multimodal
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systems, so trains, buses, and bicycles.
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So explain that.
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So is it what you're saying?
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I get off at the subway stop and I find a bicycle from a bike share service that you might control or operate?
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What's the connection between operating the transit system and a bicycle ride share?
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It would start with simple things.
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How long does it take to go from the bicycle station to the train station?
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How long does it take?
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Sometimes it could be more than 20 minutes.
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Okay.
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So is the one available then?
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Because you are on the path to go there is not really practical.
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And that's a key challenge.
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Sometimes it's better to just five minutes walk or even less than that.
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200 meters around the station.
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So the way we design, we implement the bicycle station is key.
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That's the same for the bus.
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The bus station should be really, really close.
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We know that each time that you change of mode,
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you can lose nearly 20% of ridership.
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So if you want to reduce this percentage,
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you have to design really closely all modes of transportation
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just to go from one mode to another one.
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So it's why the look for the upcoming project is really a global project.
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If we want that it works, really looking at what's the network design, the bus of the network design, bicycles, could be the ferries, could be the gondolas.
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Everything should be linked if we want to create really successful transit projects.
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I mean, as you know, one of the issues that the Board of Trade has been pushing is we've got fair integration now in our region, thanks to the provincial government spending a fair bit of money to underwrite a single fair system, which is terrific.
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We fought for that for a long time.
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But now we're very much asking for service integration.
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And a bit like what you're talking about, we've got many or quite a few municipal transit systems that all operate in this region, whether it's MyWay and Mississauga, whether it's the North York subway system, or the York region subway system, and Peel and so on, and then coming into Toronto itself where the TTC operates, and then the GO system operating as well as a commuter rail system.
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the schedules aren't at all connected.
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And I think one of the things we learned was that Europe,
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the European rail system is a single scheduling system,
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unified, united.
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So passengers can go from one to the next easily.
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We don't even have that in the Toronto region,
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but is that something that TransDiv can play a role in,
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for example,
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because when you're talking about a multimodal system,
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it's being able to go from a bus, as you said,
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to a subway system, to a subway.
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We can bring an added value on that. Just bringing an example how it works elsewhere,
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how it works in Europe, how it works in Australia, in the US as well. And I believe there is a strong
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benefit with a single authority, I would say, of course, to manage the phrase, as you said,
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sometimes to have the same information. Because everything we do to ease the way to use the system.
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So wayfinding, for example, is very different.
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Or we can find in Europe, like looking at transport for London.
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There is just one brand, just one site, just one fare for everybody living there.
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It's simple.
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It works.
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The population doesn't care who is doing the job.
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They care how it's simple it is for them just to go to A to B.
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That's the goal.
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That's really the goal.
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So everything that we are doing collectively and we need to, all the stakeholders will play a positive and will have a positive impact for the population.
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When you look at the transit system in the Toronto region, what are the big gaps then to you in terms of a well-functioning multimodal system that could maximize usage?
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And obviously, maximizing usage reduces congestion on our roads.
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So there's a huge benefit to that.
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There are a lot of wonderful and great projects ongoing.
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So it's coming.
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It's really coming.
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And you talk about Ontario and Ontario will bring a lot of added value for the population
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and in terms of commercial speed to move from a place to another.
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So lots of great things.
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Maybe we can do a bit better in terms of integration.
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Yeah.
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That seems to be the big issue.
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A bit more.
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A bit more.
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So thinking and be on the population side, just seamless on the fares, I believe it's really a great initiative.
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We just push more and more, even maybe on the information side.
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Well, information is key.
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Yeah, and the difference, I think right now, GO system, TTC, the different municipal transit agencies all have different wayfinding.
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So it's not common.
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So if you're a passenger, you're not going to see the same kind of information across the system.
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It'll be different each time you cross a municipal border, basically.
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And I think that's what you're alluding to.
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So it would be a benefit.
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And it would be a benefit.
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That's not from transit, but we are saying that, you know, lots of major authorities across the world,
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they are just one single website, just to say, or one single hub.
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I believe that something will play a positive role, a positive impact for Toronto.
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That's a given.
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Right.
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Now, as the operator of the Ontario line, when it is up and running, which is probably five or six years away now, but time is marching on, we're going to have driverless trains.
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These are going to be, in a sense, automated trains, which you see around the world, but I think relatively new here.
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Talk a little bit about that.
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That's going to be a new thing for the TTC system, I think, to have driverless trains.
266
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But I think what it means is a fully automated system can move much more quickly.
267
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I think that's the logic.
268
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Really?
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Ontario will be really a showroom that's, you know, the high end in terms of transit system.
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Do you have a way for it just to be a bit more technical?
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So everything is automatized.
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You have screen doors.
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You can increase the number of trains per hour by 30%.
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Really?
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That's huge.
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That's really improving when you have-
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Because you know their safety.
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So the driver or the train coming in, there's no likelihood anybody's going to do anything.
279
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Exactly.
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So he can move more quickly.
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Right now, the trains, as you know, the TTC is always interesting.
282
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They come in very slowly into the station.
283
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Yeah, for safety reasons.
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For safety reasons.
285
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:52,940
But there's long pauses through a station, right?
286
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Exactly.
287
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The amount of time spent in a station is actually quite long.
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So that will really improve, especially for rush hour,
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whether you have a major event when it's crowded.
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Yeah.
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It will improve a lot.
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So you have more safety.
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00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:09,760
you will have more frequency for the train, more capacity.
294
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So really something really, you know, the high end,
295
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even in North America, that would be, we can be proud of that.
296
00:19:16,590 --> 00:19:17,380
Well, that's going to be exciting.
297
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,160
And again, really interesting because on the interior line,
298
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you'll have essentially very different trains with, as you said,
299
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on the stations, you have these screens preventing people
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from getting to the train until the train has arrived.
301
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You'll have signaling that's much quicker.
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00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,380
You'll have automated trains, very different from the rest, from lines, say, one and two.
303
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Does that work well to have sort of very different systems on different lines of a subway system?
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Does that happen in other cities?
305
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Of course.
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Of course.
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That's continuous improvement.
308
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Okay.
309
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,920
And we have to deal with innovation, even in this kind of project.
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Every year you have new innovation coming, and we have to consider, like, AI.
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That AI is also a piece of innovation in the Ontario line.
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We will have the capacity.
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We will collect the data.
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We can anticipate any cracks in the rail.
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We will have the opportunity to reduce the service interruption, which would benefit again for the passengers.
316
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So preventative maintenance, preventative...
317
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:19,740
Exactly. Everything is around that.
318
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We can monitor pretty much everything on the train, which is also new.
319
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So much more data.
320
00:20:27,540 --> 00:20:28,700
Much more data.
321
00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:32,480
But at the end, it's not just for the engineer, for the companies.
322
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and to well maintain the train, but also for the benefit of the passengers.
323
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Reduce the service interruption is the key element.
324
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:39,180
Oh, absolutely.
325
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Punctuality is a top priority also for the passengers.
326
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,100
So we'll see, I think, something very different than when the interior line opens
327
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in terms of speed of the trains, the way they come into the station and leave the station,
328
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the amount of time they spend in the station, the headway,
329
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,180
which is the time gap between trains, will be shorter, it sounds like.
330
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,860
Exactly. Just to give you an example, on the line one,
331
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:05,380
the commercial speed is around 30 kilometers.
332
00:21:05,910 --> 00:21:07,660
In Ontario, it would be 40 kilometers.
333
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:08,960
Okay.
334
00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:10,860
So it's much more faster.
335
00:21:11,860 --> 00:21:12,640
And you see that in Europe.
336
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:13,660
I mean, I think people, it's interesting.
337
00:21:14,060 --> 00:21:15,060
I mean, I was in London recently.
338
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:17,260
I was in Paris earlier in the year.
339
00:21:17,660 --> 00:21:22,340
And it does strike you that the trains come into the station quite quickly.
340
00:21:22,780 --> 00:21:23,360
They open the doors.
341
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People get in.
342
00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:24,900
They shut the doors.
343
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,920
Off they go quite quickly compared to here where it kind of seems more leisurely.
344
00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:35,840
And part of it is, I think, on large portions of the system now, we've got fairly old signaling.
345
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So there's safety reasons why they have to slow down for certain periods.
346
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But then when they come into the station, as I've said, they come in quite slowly.
347
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,080
And it seems like a long pause.
348
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:45,780
It doesn't seem like you're in a hurry.
349
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It seems more like, you know, more leisurely, as I say.
350
00:21:49,740 --> 00:21:50,480
So that will be different.
351
00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:52,160
That will be quite exciting, I think.
352
00:21:52,420 --> 00:21:52,880
Oh, definitely.
353
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,860
That will bring a lot.
354
00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:55,620
Definitely.
355
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,200
Because, again, it's the high end in terms of transit system, you know, GOA4.
356
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:02,760
So it's really the last version.
357
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:05,900
But Arthur, it's going to be interesting because once the interior line is open
358
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:08,320
and people experience this kind of faster movement,
359
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,460
I think there'll be pressure, I'm assuming, on lines one and two for people to say,
360
00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:15,300
well, you know, why do I not have this?
361
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,340
Why is it so much slower on these lines?
362
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,900
I mean, I can assume that there'll be a lot of pressure to upgrade those systems.
363
00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:25,200
Yeah, and, you know, all the big cities around the world, they are doing that.
364
00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:33,200
sub-ruade on all the metro lines just to bring them to a GOA4, so the high end in terms of automation.
365
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:33,880
Right.
366
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:34,480
It's fascinating.
367
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:35,520
Last thing.
368
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:37,560
We're running out of time here, but this is a great conversation.
369
00:22:38,380 --> 00:22:42,740
I know that you mentioned when you talked about multimodal, you said gondolas.
370
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And I know that in Europe and in some other places, gondolas are becoming a form of transit,
371
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,780
not just to go up a mountainside for tourists, but actually to move commuters.
372
00:22:56,140 --> 00:22:58,580
is there a prospect of that in a city like Toronto?
373
00:22:59,220 --> 00:23:00,160
Oh, I really believe.
374
00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:03,620
Where would we, could you imagine one, for example?
375
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,160
On the first one, I would imagine it would be
376
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from the Toronto center to the island,
377
00:23:08,940 --> 00:23:09,980
just in the front.
378
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,640
It could be a way just,
379
00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:13,900
not just to replace the ferries,
380
00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:14,740
but just in complement.
381
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:15,300
Yeah.
382
00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:17,060
And that brings a lot.
383
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:17,980
It brings, you know,
384
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:20,840
as a transportation mode,
385
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:25,180
but it's also something which could be iconic
386
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:25,660
for a city.
387
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,520
The difference between, I would say, an LRT and a Gordola system,
388
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:31,800
a Gordola system is five times cheaper.
389
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:33,540
- Five times cheaper?
390
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,420
- Five times cheaper.
391
00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:36,240
It's faster. - Well, there's no tunneling.
392
00:23:36,730 --> 00:23:37,360
- No tunneling.
393
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,700
It's faster to build.
394
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,280
So if you want to go fast, if you want to go cheap,
395
00:23:43,060 --> 00:23:46,120
if you want to be effective, it makes sense.
396
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:47,320
But it's--
397
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,460
- Does it have the passengers, the number of passengers?
398
00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:53,380
- The passenger, it's a bit lower than the LRT system.
399
00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:55,080
But still, depending.
400
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,900
So, of course, everything is around making the case around the transit system,
401
00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:02,940
what would be the ridership, what are the targets.
402
00:24:03,580 --> 00:24:06,560
But sometimes it makes sense just to look at the different modes of transportation.
403
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,820
As I told you, you know, Transdev, we bring all the solutions, all modes of transportation.
404
00:24:12,010 --> 00:24:14,260
And we are not, you know, stuck in one mode.
405
00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:18,240
I believe that we need to have the discussion with the authority.
406
00:24:19,180 --> 00:24:21,060
What's the final goal for the authority?
407
00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:27,640
Except if you're going to do different transit, if you're going to think outside the box and think about different transit systems, you need to plan for that.
408
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:29,740
So, for example, you think about the waterfront here.
409
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,860
We're building buildings, you know, all up and down Queen's Cay.
410
00:24:33,620 --> 00:24:36,940
A gondola system, I'm assuming, if we were to think about that, five times cheaper.
411
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,880
But presumably the gondola system would have to do a loop.
412
00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:42,300
Is there space here for that?
413
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,100
Or we already used up all that space?
414
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:47,160
I'm not, you know, I can't.
415
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,060
I can't as well, you know, like that.
416
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,960
But I'm just thinking that if you want to plan something.
417
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,220
I believe it's a system really flexible.
418
00:24:53,540 --> 00:24:53,700
Yeah.
419
00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:56,460
And by the way, most of the big cities,
420
00:24:56,460 --> 00:24:59,040
they are using this system when you have tracks,
421
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:00,900
rivers to cross,
422
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,120
when you have really challenging environments
423
00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:08,400
where launching an LRT system,
424
00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:09,700
it's complex or costly.
425
00:25:10,420 --> 00:25:13,800
So it makes a lot of sense when we are closer in a river,
426
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:14,560
when you have limits.
427
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,500
We've got tracks here,
428
00:25:17,180 --> 00:25:19,660
and if you're crossing from the center of Toronto,
429
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:20,840
like the core of Toronto,
430
00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:23,760
even Front Street to get to
431
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:24,920
Queens Quay for example
432
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,660
you're crossing the Gardner, you're crossing
433
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,800
railway tracks and so on, I mean they're overhead
434
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:30,220
but
435
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,500
it's not a huge distance
436
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:35,840
but would something have gone to
437
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,920
lower for something like that or do you need longer
438
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:39,300
distances like to the island?
439
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,360
No, definitely
440
00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:43,200
there's always
441
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,680
we need to find a balance in each project
442
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,800
of course when it's too short
443
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,799
you can't really leverage sometimes
444
00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:53,260
a transit system. It's like doing a LRT of two kilometers.
445
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:53,880
Not worth it.
446
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:54,500
Make no sense.
447
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:54,740
Yeah.
448
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:59,640
So we need to provide an added value on that. So of course, we have to think about that,
449
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:04,800
just throwing the ideas. We need to make the analysis, but it could make sense depending on
450
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:12,240
how you want to design that, how long, what would be when you start the line, where it's ending.
451
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:12,920
Interesting.
452
00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:18,419
Yeah. But definitely makes sense. And it's happening in a lot of the cities. It could
453
00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:23,060
make sense it's not just one one size well i think the cost of transit we we did a study i mean the
454
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,140
cost of transit is rising very rapidly i think it's close to you know toronto now it's close to a
455
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:32,400
billion dollars a kilometer so if you could do it five times cheaper yeah to get the you know to get
456
00:26:32,410 --> 00:26:37,780
the benefit uh for passengers i think that would be worth looking at and that's the same for the
457
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,520
operation by the way as well okay not right of course because it's far less complex yeah right
458
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:44,880
Arthur, thank you
459
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,340
great conversation, really enjoyed the conversation
460
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,620
it looks like the sky's the limit
461
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,840
in terms of transit if we're talking about gondolas
462
00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:53,620
but as well
463
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:55,740
we're obviously looking forward to the Ontario Line
464
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,440
coming here and what the benefits
465
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,700
that's going to bring, so great work
466
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,080
and glad to have TransDev
467
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:03,740
involved in the
468
00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:05,660
operation of our transit system here
469
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:06,400
Thank you so much
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00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,980
Thanks for listening to Toronto Talks
471
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:11,600
conversations with the leaders
472
00:27:11,940 --> 00:27:13,300
shaping the region's economy.
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00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:15,980
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
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