WEBVTT
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One family on one mission through one cooperative effort.
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You are now listening to the SE Baptist Podcast.
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Listen, welcome to our panel discussion time.
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This is really one of my favorite times of the day where we get to take uh live questions from our audience and and let our experts lead and guide and respond to those.
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Before we do that though, before we get into too much of that, I do want to say thank you to Southeastern Seminary.
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They have uh sponsored our break time, so all the snacks and drinks and food and coffee and things like that bags, they've provided that for us.
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And so uh yeah, absolutely.
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So super appreciative.
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Um we're we're we're fortunate enough to have uh two professors here with us from Southeastern.
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Uh Dr.
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Kellen was just gonna ask you like, why why should someone who's in here who wants to consider training and furthering their continuing education, why should Southeastern be a place they consider?
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Can I say because we're the best seminary in the industry?
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Oh well hey, watch out now.
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Watch out.
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I mean we've got a lot of seminaries represented in here, but there are, yes.
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Uh do you have any Southeastern current students or alumni in here?
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All right.
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Okay.
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So they can attest to you.
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Uh all of our seminaries are wonderful seminaries.
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Yep.
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Uh we all partner together to for the sake of the gospel in advancing the Great Commission.
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Uh, so you're in good hands at any of them.
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I may be a little bit biased, uh, but Southeastern is a place that I've been for almost two decades now, uh, and it has been a joy and a privilege to labor alongside of brothers and sisters uh to share the Great Commission, fulfill the Great Commission.
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Uh Southeastern has all sorts of training programs.
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So if you leave today and you think I need more, and I want to do theology in community, like we've been talking about earlier today, like Clint was talking about earlier, uh, we have everything from Ghost certificates.
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Dr.
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Hambrick and I have taught for those Ghost certificates.
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We have bachelor's, master's, three doctoral programs in counseling, and a host of other areas of specialization.
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Uh we are known as the Happy Seminary.
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We have a lot of fun.
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Uh we're serious about accomplishing the work of God, but we have a lot of fun doing it.
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So if that sounds like your flavor of school, come on and join us.
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Absolutely, very good, very good.
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Well, listen, uh, here's what we want to do right now is that we want to open up the floor to questions that you would like to send in.
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Maybe some questions that came up during your breakout time that you didn't get an opportunity to ask, you're gonna have the opportunity to do that now.
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So here's how this works.
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So we have a QR code that's on the screen.
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Uh we want to encourage everyone to grab your phones, scan that QR code.
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It's gonna take you to a link where you can begin to begin the process of asking questions.
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And what's gonna happen is, is as you text in questions, we have a couple of screeners in the back of the room.
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Um, uh one student pastor, another former student pastor who was uh kind of the vision behind this.
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They're gonna be selecting those questions, and as they come up on the screen, uh we'll allow our experts to dive in and respond to those.
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So go ahead and get your phones out if you want to go ahead and participate.
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Um, that screen is not gonna always be up there, uh, so it's gonna be up there for another minute or two.
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I'm gonna go ahead and ask just a couple of questions, though, to go ahead and get us started on this conversation.
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Uh, Dr.
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Hambrick, I'm gonna start with you.
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So the way that I found out about you was I had a senior pastor who used to be a student pastor, uh, mention to me, I was talking to him about premarital counseling, leading a couple through that process, and I had a senior pastor mention to me Bradhambrick.com and your resources section, and how you make so many of your resources available uh to pastors, ministers that can use the biblical counseling principles that you teach, use them in their local church setting.
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Would you talk a little bit about what what your website is about, what is designed, and how it can help children's ministry leaders and student pastors in the room uh with shepherding and ministering to the next generation?
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I'd be happy to.
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Yes.
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Uh and so the website is just simply my name, uh Bradham Brick.com.
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And uh you know, a lot of people look at the number of resources there and they go, wow, you're really generous.
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Uh I would say my church is really generous uh that I have the opportunity to serve on staff at a church uh where my role is pastor of counseling, no slash.
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Uh many of us here live with a variety of titles.
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We are the pastor of this slash that slash another thing.
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Uh I get to devote my time to developing resources.
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Um I serve uh is that we place a very high emphasis on church planting.
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Uh it's our ambition to plant a thousand churches in this generation.
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Uh we're well on our way to doing that.
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And so in a position like mine, resourcing churches, resourcing churches is something my church wants me to do.
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Uh and so they allow me to put together uh or devote a significant amount of my time to developing resources.
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Uh so if you go on there and you just kind of scroll down the page, you're gonna see a series of buttons.
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It's alphabetical uh from anger to whatever struggle starts with Z.
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Um and uh you'll see that it's arranged topically.
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And so as I do a new post on a given subject, uh I try to make it easy to find.
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Uh there's video-based content, written content, uh that hopefully uh will serve you well and try to make it where it's easy to find what you're looking for.
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Yep, yeah, it's excellent, excellent work.
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It's definitely worth going to Bradhambrook.com.
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Definitely that resources section is fantastic.
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Um, Dr.
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Kellen, I was gonna ask you so I could be wrong about this, um, but the most recent quick reference counseling guide or book for teenagers is really, in a lot of ways, decades old.
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Like the most recent one is is long ago.
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From what I understand, you are writing a book on reaching teenagers and children, counseling them in their issues.
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Would you talk a little bit about like what that book's about, where are you going with it, when will it be available?
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Share a little bit about that.
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Uh I just turned in the draft to the editor about two weeks ago.
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Okay.
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Uh which means it'll take over a year to come out because that's how publishing works.
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Uh so early spring of 26, it's a book on counseling teens from a biblical perspective.
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You're right.
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The most recent books were about 12 to 13 years old.
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Right.
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And so I thought, well, teenagers today are different than they were a decade ago.
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Yep.
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So we need to be able to attend to them.
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So in that book, I'm creating a framework for how do we understand people and their problems and counseling.
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So kind of 30,000-foot view, and then walk through 13 or 14 different issues that teenagers face and how do we help them from scripture where they are developmentally.
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So I do chapters on suicide, self-harm, gender dysphoria, same-sex attraction, addiction, pornography, uh, anxiety, depression, fill in the blank.
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There's a bunch of them.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, looking forward to when that comes out for sure.
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Absolutely.
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Me too.
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And Clint was gonna absolutely.
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Tell us a little bit about uh your free resource that we gave this year at Elephant the Pew is Clint's book uh that he wrote.
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When did you write that book?
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Uh it came out last November.
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Okay, yeah.
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Tell us a little bit about the background of why you wrote that book.
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Yeah, so same thing.
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I mean, the resources for uh parenting around sexual health and development and discipling our kids through you know zero to eighteen, there's just not a lot out there in the biblical world.
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Right.
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And I have two boys, and so we're going through all the development of little kids and their bodies changing and having questions about babies, and and I also work in the addiction realm, and so seeing all the trauma from church and not having these conversations and neglecting that, um, and then all my friends are calling me, being like, hey, my four-year-old's doing this, what do I do?
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And I got tired of telling them, so I wrote a book about it.
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Um, but seriously, I mean I think if you're a parent, you know, I don't most people don't have time to listen to 12 podcasts and read the 30 books that are out there, and so I tried to just take all of the best little pieces and put it into one resource so parents could kind of have it all in one spot.
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Very good.
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Okay, excellent, excellent.
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Yeah, these are all things that are worth considering.
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Um really do appreciate what you guys are doing, making it available to help children's ministers, student pastors uh be more effective in reaching the next generation.
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All right, I think we're ready for some uh live questions here.
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All right, so here we go.
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All right, you guys ready?
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Here's our first question.
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Can Snapchat really be safe for your teen?
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No.
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No.
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This is what I would call like a red, there's green, yellow, and red social media apps, and this would be a red.
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No.
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Why is it a red?
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Well, it's red because you can't monitor it, you can't keep track of what they send.
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Uh well, Snapchat does, so as they send new pictures back and forth to each other, Snapchat has it, but they don't.
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Um there's tons of inappropriate content, tons of strangers.
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I mean, there's their brains aren't developed enough to use it appropriately.
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It's also harming them with their inability to have conversations and literally talk back and forth.
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So they're you know spending five years texting three words in a picture to each other and that's how they communicate.
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Um got any other reasons?
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Would you add anything else?
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I I would echo all of that.
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And just because we're talking to parents and helpers of parents, uh, I would say we we need to be more assertive and firm to say if if this is in the red category, and I'd wholeheartedly agree, it is okay for us to say no, you may not have this, uh, and have some boldness there.
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Yeah, good word.
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And please don't take your youth group somewhere and then say, hey, everybody download Snapchat so that we can send each other pictures from the event.
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Because that happens.
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Very good.
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Okay.
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Well, not good.
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Not good.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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All right, we'll see what else.
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Uh what's our next question that's come in here?
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All right.
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How do you have conversations with children and students when a peer or family member dies by suicide?
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So I think in terms of two timetables here.
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One is before they know, uh, the second is after.
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Uh and so I'm not quite sure if this question is how do you tell them about what happened, or if it's more a question about how do you process with them uh after they found out what happened.
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Um anytime when it comes to difficult things with children, uh, I think one of the things that gets in the way most for us as adults, and we talked about this in one of the breakouts, is we tend to help kids navigate our world instead of helping kids navigate their world.
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And so there's lots of questions, and you know, on something like this, do we start to have beliefs about gun control and things like that, that when you get 18, here's how I want you to vote on this so that this never happens again.
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Well, to an eight-year-old, that's at least a decade away.
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That's not helping them navigate uh their world.
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Um and so uh as much as I can, and usually I get this information by listening.
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And so uh give them enough information uh that they know what happened.
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Uh confusion prompts creativity.
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Uh kids are going to fill in the information that we don't give them.
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Uh and so uh the more ambiguous we are in the name of being delicate, uh, we're leaving more room for creativity there.
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We don't want to be um vulgar or things that are shocking in how we describe it.
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Um don't assume conversation.
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Uh like there's a sense in which we kind of think, okay, I'm going to do this, and then when we're done, whew, it's over.
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The goal of the initial conversation is to invite questions.
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You really know whether you did a good job uh with the initial conversation, with whether or not you get questions.
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If you don't get questions, that usually doesn't mean you were so clear that they didn't have any.
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That's much more an indication that they were overwhelmed or like it was hard for them to process what they got.
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Uh kids tend to do things in bytes.
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Uh, even emotionally, they'll do it in smaller bytes.
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So give them information, leave it open-ended, uh, touch base with them.
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Uh just saying, hey, how are you doing with in whatever the family member's name would be, uh, with their passing.
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Uh coming back where they know it really is okay for them to speak about that.
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Um the freedom to share is as important as the sharing itself in terms of their long-term emotional health and processing.
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I think the only thing I would add, which I think you were getting at, Brad, was we need to speak on the child's terms.
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So an eight-year-old doesn't understand what the word suicide means.
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So we want to be very careful to speak in concrete terms, simple terms that they can understand giving appropriate details, developmentally appropriate, um, but recognizing too that it's going to take them time to process and grieve through that.
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Um, and they may understand new things at different stages.
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So just we we step into their world instead of making them step into ours.
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That last comment that Kristen made is huge.
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Kids they grieve at the in the way that their current stage of development will allow them.
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And so as they age, let's say they lose a parent.
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Um, well, at homecoming when they're 16 and like their parents supposed to be there with them, the fact that that is freshly hard isn't a relapse of grief.
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It's just that grief wasn't available to them at 10.
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And so that comment about development and the way that that works through, uh, it's for the child, they often wonder, did I not grieve completely back then?
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No, you grieved as holistically as you could when you were 10 or when you were 12, and as you matured, new elements of grief became came into your capacity, and helping them understand that so that they don't view the earlier grief as failure uh can be important.
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Crushed it.
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Absolutely.
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On the topic of deconstruction, what do you think are the main reasons behind most stories of deconstruction?
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What can the church and leaders do to prevent this?
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Okay.
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You know, there's a piece of me that wants to recognize, we're talking about human development, the developmental appropriateness of trying to sift through one's own beliefs.
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So if that's the aspect of deconstruction that's happening, that is actually developmentally normal and appropriate, provided that we give them resources to reconstruct after.
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I don't know that we need a fancy word to place on a developmentally normal process.
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Now, I would want to ask the question: what has led to this?
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Is it developmentally normal?
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Is it some sort of church hurt?
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Is it some sort of trauma?
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What is it?
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And that frames for me how I come alongside of them and help them piece those things together.
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Uh, it is actually unhealthy to walk through something problematic, a loss or a trauma, and not wrestle with your faith.
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That's more problematic to me than the deconstruction, reconstruction piece.
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So, what's what's the circumstances?
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How are they doing that?
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Do they have what they need to build it back up?
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I mean, yeah, I think uh that's great.
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I think um the reality is that like you said, deconstruction depends on the definition that you're using.
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Um I would say we're all deconstructing parts of faith and parts of church and the American system, and that's a good thing.
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Um I think we should deconstruct a lot of American Christianity and get back to some historical Christianity as we talked about earlier on.
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I think when dis deconstruction, as the way we're probably using it or it's questioned, is is when somebody's already made their mind up.
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So they're they're going confirmation bias is the thing.
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They they're mad they want a way out of the church, so now they're gonna prove why God's bad and why the church doesn't work and why everything's negative, and so they're looking for anything that can affirm that.
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And um, I think we have to have a lot of grace and empathy for that.
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I think we have to sit with people and love on them and hear their story and and speak truth and grace at the same time and say, okay, well, I hear you in that part, but this part's still true.
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Um and I think we have to be really good with scripture and and bring it back to the text and read the text as it is instead of going to the text with a certain issue and then go, okay, I want to prove this thing, so I'm gonna go to the text.
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I've got to let the text say what the text has said for thousands of years and go from there.
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And it's a spirit working to do that.
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Um I have a counseling client right now that has just walked through all of this process, and no amount of logical argument could kind of turn that train around.
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I I had to wait and be patient for the Holy Spirit to come in and patiently show her I am good, I am kind, I am real, I am loving, but that was the Spirit's work, not my work.
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Uh so it's not it's not a large logical argumentation there.
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All right, let's go to the next question.
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We've talked about sexual trauma.
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How do we handle the offender?
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What about an afternoon incarceration they want to attend our church?
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Yeah, it's a tough question.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:07.359
And uh it is one that in ways that I like are uniquely hard at our church.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.240
Um for those of you who don't know, Summit Church is a multi-site church.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:16.079
Uh we have two sites in prisons.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:29.200
And so every week uh in two state prisons near our church, uh we have church while men and women are incarcerated.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:20:02.160
Uh and uh so that uh there's a blue card process and a salmon card process that you go through at different stages in incarceration that uh in the exit process, so that you have a lower recidism rate if folks have relationships when they get on the back side of their uh tenure in prison so that they don't go from prison with a lot of structure to out of prison with no structure whatsoever.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:11.119
That means as a church, for a whole variety of offenses, uh we have a whole lot of such were some of you.
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.200
Kind of borrowing from that phrase in 1 Corinthians.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:36.480
Um with a subject like sex offenders, where this recidicism rate is exceedingly high, uh and uh the presence of children and the easy access of children uh is not just a liability, it's a temptation.
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:59.359
Uh and so the uh posture that we have taken is that uh anyone who is under RSO status, uh they have a shepherding presence with them at all times, uh, from the time they come on our campus until the time that they leave our campus, uh, that person cannot be a family member.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.200
Uh a spouse would not count.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:09.920
Uh, the reality of that is the spouse was probably in their life for a period of time while that was going on.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:20.640
And to ask a spouse to serve the dual role of spouse and accountability is just really unfair.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:29.279
I will tell you it's only about 30 percent of those who are offenders who will agree to our policy.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.720
Um that the majority feel like it is too intrusive.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:43.440
Uh I will also tell you we get attacked on a regular basis online for our uh policy being too lax and too free.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:59.279
Uh that people that I really respect would say, uh, once you have crossed that threshold, uh, access to minors in any way, uh, that this should only be a home church experience with uh no children there whatsoever.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:11.119
Uh Again, with that shepherding presence, as you don't serve in student ministry or children's ministry, you don't go into those areas of the church that are campuses.
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:23.119
We have campuses that create some weird language there of like we want campus awareness as opposed to church-wide awareness because like this person isn't at those other campuses.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:33.839
And so putting something in place, if you create a policy, if you create a policy and you don't follow through on it, you did not create a policy, you created a liability.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:42.880
Good intentions on the front end and not follow up on the back end is not a blessing to anybody.
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.960
It gives a false sense of security to the parents who are entrusting their children to the church.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.920
And when and if something goes wrong, it creates a greater liability for the church.
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.960
Now we should do this well, not out of fear for liability, but out of love for one another.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:05.359
And so that's that's where we are, that's where it's critiqued in different ways.
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:07.200
I hope that's helpful.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:08.160
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.519
Anything y'all want to add to that?
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:18.160
I would just say that the importance of recovery for the victim and where they're at and the walk that the church has done, and that's why it takes a robust thing.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.000
I mean, I think everything you said was spot on.
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:20.880
Like that's so good.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.240
I think it takes balance, right?
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:40.799
It it it's a the reality is we live in a world where people do horrible things to each other and there's sin and there's brokenness, but if there's supervision and reconciliation and responsibility, if a person was coming to a church or a community and they were saying, I don't need supervision, I'm fine, that would cue me in that they haven't recovered and they're not a safe person.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.759
So that would actually be the reason why they wouldn't be coming to the church.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:49.440
Um if the person was taking full responsibility and saying, I own this, this is my testimony.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:24:00.240
God is redeeming and has redeemed me from this thing, and so whatever I need to do for the body of Christ, I'll do that at my my you know, diligence and my accountability.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.240
That's gonna bleed a lot safer in.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:11.440
So I think as you have those conversations, the health of the person and the recovery of the person and the work Christ has done in their life is gonna say a lot about where you can move and how you can move.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:20.400
Most of the time, the people who don't want the boundaries and who push back give you a very clear indication, but you've got to have the boundaries in order to find that out.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:26.400
Well, and just putting some logistical flesh to that in terms of what that looks like.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:36.400
If somebody wants to serve and they've got a background as an RSO, uh they're not in any leadership position where they have authority over others.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:43.279
Uh and so uh tech team, parking team, different teams that we have along the church that are just serving.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:53.519
But even with that, uh, when they would come to us and say, we want to serve, um as a church, we feel like we have a shepherding due diligence.
00:24:53.680 --> 00:25:02.240
Uh, and so that means going to folks on that team and saying, hey, there's somebody that would like to serve.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.559
This is part of their background.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.359
Uh would that make anyone here uncomfortable?
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.319
You don't have to tell us in this moment, you can tell us later.
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.559
You don't have to tell us why.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.200
Like this is one where we don't need to pry to get that information.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:25.839
Uh, but we're going to look for a location for them to serve that is not disruptive and feels safe with a small group.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:38.720
That if they want to be a part of a small group, we look for a small group without uh children, we approach the small group, we have the same kind of conversation, that becomes a closed small group if they say yes.
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:49.519
Because you can do your due diligence on the front end, and then somebody else joins that group later, and it's not just about are there children in that group.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:26:06.640
You can have other victims of abuse for whom that is if their weekly discipleship rhythm involves that degree of traumatic triggering, uh, it's going to be a major deterrence to their growth.
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:15.119
Uh and so uh that's one where you don't get into ministry to avoid having the awkward conversations.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.559
You know, my title is pastor of counseling.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.960
People ask me what does that mean?
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:28.079
Uh one spoofy version I have for my title, amongst many other, is I'm the pastor of whatever makes you uncomfortable.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:42.640
Um because these types of things that are that level of discomfort, I don't know why everything that makes people uncomfortable is counseling, uh, but that seems to be the uh jobs as otherwise specified line item in my job description.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:44.640
All right, next question we've got.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.839
Oh, here we go.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:51.119
Is nethetic counseling ever viable or should we always use integrated strategies?
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:53.200
This is gonna be an interesting discussion, I think.
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:54.400
Here we go.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:56.880
I don't mind.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:57.599
Go for it.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.279
Uh and so I think for some folks, this is a very informed question.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.519
Well, this is a very informed question.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:11.039
For some folks, we may need some explanation uh for a Greek term.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:27.599
Uh so neuthetic counseling is a uh counseling tradition began in the 1970s, uh around 1970, that specific year, with the publication of a book uh called Competent to Counsel uh by Jay Adams.
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.400
Uh until around 2012, uh it was called Nuthetic Counseling.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:38.559
Uh they then had a name change where they're now the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:45.680
Uh so neuthetic is still the clearest term uh because biblical counseling is kind of like saying vanilla ice cream.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:50.400
Uh there's uh it's it's not the most specific term.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.240
Uh newhetic counseling, it comes from the word nutheteo.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.559
I know you all do your devotions in the Greek New Testament, um, meaning to confront.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:06.720
And uh and so the question here is is nuthetic counseling ever viable?
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.119
And then the flip side, should we always integrate?
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:21.759
In terms of critiquing a question, uh putting the words ever and always in your questions gives me a great scapegoat.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:41.440
There's times when nuthetic counseling is really, really useful on issues of maturation, where clear direction, guidance, instruction, correction that is what neuthetic counseling does in spades.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:58.079
When somebody has a strong commitment to scripture, neuthetic counseling is very dependent upon a shared presupposition on the authority and utility of scripture.
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:12.400
I did the first decade of my counseling in a parachurch environment where I could not assume every person who came for me had that kind of shared commitment.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.160
I had plenty of counselees who were Southern Christians.
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:21.279
Um I'm American, I'm a Christian.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:26.000
Uh like that sense of like we're a Christian nation, this is who we are, right?
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:36.480
Uh and that degree of shared presupposition was uh was not something that could be assumed.
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:43.279
Um now that question of should we always integrate?
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:47.519
Uh there's a whole load of term in integration.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.480
And what does it mean and what degree of utilization is there?
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.680
Uh I would say, are there areas where being clinically informed is really important?
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.400
Well, I teach at Southeastern.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:06.799
The tagline for our counseling program is that we do clinically informed biblical counseling.
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:18.319
Uh that we, those parts of the social sciences uh that carry validity and they're good, we want to learn from that.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:24.400
We think it would be foolish not to learn from those who do excellent work in their field.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.799
We also recognize there's a calling to eat the fish and spit out the bones.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.200
The noetic effects of sin are not erased by science.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:41.680
And so even those things that have an empirical base, the assumptions of our day and age, get embedded within that.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:53.599
Uh and so if this conversation is really interesting to you and you hear that and your spidey sense is tingling in a good way, you should come study with us.
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:58.000
Uh that is, you know, I think you're gonna smile and go, yeah, that's what we do.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:09.119
Uh that if you go, ah, I want to be a faithful shepherd uh teacher, uh, that uh that that's my calling.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:19.759
Uh then to get into counseling in its clinical expression and do things that would fit in a parachurch or professional setting is probably not going to feel like something that is a great fit for you.
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.319
Uh I think Jesus can be honored at every point along that spectrum.
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:44.559
In the same way that there's some folks who go, you know, I feel called to education, and I want to teach in an overtly Christian school environment because I don't want any restrictions on what I can say, and I want to teach in an environment that is uh that my context is a wind at my back for what I want to do.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:56.960
And other people will go, no, I want to missionally be in a public school environment because I want to be a salt and light uh presence in those places, and I want to do that redemptively and missionally.
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:02.240
Well, those are the ones who have more of a clinically informed bent to how they go about it.
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:04.400
So correct me.
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:09.680
No, I'd agree with all of that, and I know you've you've taught a lot on that and talked a lot on that.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:17.519
Um I think just to boil some of it down, I think three things matter, and like a good Baptist, they're all starting with the same letter.
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:22.480
Uh one is uh the context in which we're counseling.
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:29.200
So, as Brad mentioned, if you are a pastor in a church, you're probably going to be doing more neuthetic biblical counseling.
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:34.799
If you are a uh a chaplain in the military, that's gonna look a little different.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.240
If you're at a state mental health hospital, that's gonna look different.
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.240
If you're at a private practice, that's gonna look different.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:46.559
Your context in many ways can drive whether you're doing neuthetic, integrated, fill in the blank, right?
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.480
The second one is the client or the counselee, what do they need?
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:51.680
What's their struggle?
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.279
Is it admonition maturity?
00:32:53.359 --> 00:33:03.200
Is it unrepentant sin, or is it some sort of uh deep, complex trauma or some other issue, ADHD, those sorts of things?
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:05.359
What are their needs that are present?
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:12.960
We attend to their needs just like we attend to a child, uh, we don't want to make them force them into our box.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:14.400
And then third is the counselor.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.160
So how have we been trained?
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.000
What tools do we have in our tool belt?
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:19.599
Don't step outside of your lane.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:24.319
So I as a counselor can't prescribe medication, so I don't prescribe medication.
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:29.519
Uh so what areas of newthetic to integration, where am I trained on?
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.960
How can I do that well?
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.640
And I need to stay in my lane.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:33.839
So yeah.
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.799
You don't believe in integrated strategies, do you?
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.000
No integrated strategies.
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:39.680
Science, throw it out.
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:39.920
No.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.200
Uh yeah, no, I I think uh everything they said is accurate.
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:48.079
I mean, I think it depends on where you're at, the context in which you're in, your client caseload.
00:33:48.240 --> 00:34:02.400
Um, as I've said from the beginning, I think I I, you know, got my master's in marriage and family therapy, got licenses, got all the certifications, but then quickly realized like, you know, for 10, 15 years, I'm like, hey guys, church, we should talk about the brain and the body and how God made us.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:06.240
And now we're over here going, can we stop labeling all these things as all these things?
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:12.000
So it's an interesting time in history to have that question because we don't know.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:20.559
I mean, we're in the middle trying to figure it out, but I think if if it's good in psychology and it's good in science, there is going to be biblical principle and base to it.
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:33.840
And so, you know, there's a lot of things that we can look at that that the world would say is a scientific evidence for something, and then we can go back to scripture and go, well, that doesn't make sense based on even your own science.
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.559
So, you know, it can be very confusing and convoluted.
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:46.800
So I think it's again, if we get back to the church and discipleship and our context, and a lot of that stuff works itself out, um, I think the other problem is need.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.519
Um, as I talked about at the beginning, uh it's like so being in the army.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:35:00.559
If you only like let's say you're a medic and you don't know how to shoot your M16 or drag somebody out of like a crisis, right?
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:12.159
But it's like our society is basically, in some ways, as a church, going, hey, listen, we're not combat engineers, we don't know how to shoot our guns, and when the bad guys in the crisis gets here, it's like you need to go to counseling, right?
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.199
As if we don't have the Holy Spirit within us and we can't do anything.
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.159
So we all I think do need basic training.
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:19.440
What is that training?
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.199
Is the question, and I think that can be tiered up depending on your context.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:28.239
So I would say all of us need more training about how God wired us, how we were created.
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:35.519
Depending on like how far you need to go in that education, depends on how much you're gonna be doing that specific type of counseling and care.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:42.480
But I think part of the problem is is like like we're doing this whole thing because most of us don't have any basic training in seminary and in church.
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:50.960
And so I would like to lean a little bit more on the integration of like the science with the theology if we're gonna be dealing with humans in all of their pain.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.320
All right, Kathy, I know you've got the next question.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:54.880
No pressure.
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:56.480
We've got 50 questions in the key thing.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.480
Oh, well, that's just go at it.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.519
All right, here we go.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.480
All right, next one.
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:05.119
How important is it for youth pastors to take care of their own mental health?
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.440
And what are some practical tips to do so?
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:17.679
I mean, uh who I was talking to somebody, maybe it was Tucker, I think, earlier, and I was saying, um, what's the best way to get like you know, to know about counseling, what should I read?
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:19.199
And I said, You should go to counseling.
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:25.039
Like I think one of the biggest problems is that like the biggest training tool for me was going to therapy for 23 years.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.400
So it's like, if you're gonna be a pastor and you've never been pastored, that's a problem, right?
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.719
If you want to shepherd people but no one's ever shepherded you, it's a problem.
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:56.400
And so if you want to counsel people and know what it's like to be vulnerable and share emotions and for somebody to check their watch or yawn or show up late or all the things that go on in counseling, then the best thing you can do is sit on the couch and talk and process and like do the work, because then you're gonna have a load of empathy for the people that you're asking to do something.
00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:04.800
And I think if I get from the beginning, like if we're asking people to do things that we're not doing for them, that's a major problem within the church.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:25.679
In terms of like some real practical tips, if you get 50 hours of sleep a week, if you're not averaging seven hours a week a night, um, then you're living with a sleep debt, that's gonna significantly impair uh your cognitive functioning.
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:28.400
Uh eat a balanced diet.
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:38.719
Like if chemical balance is a significant part of uh mental health, it's not the totality of it, it's significant of it.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:43.119
Where does our body get the raw material to create a chemical balance?
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:45.039
From our diet.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:49.199
Right.
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:54.000
Uh that regular cardiovascular exercise.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:38:06.400
Uh nothing has been proven more effective at treating anxiety and depression than getting 30 minutes of cardiovascular exercise three to five times a week.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.280
We are embodied souls.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:15.119
Like good friends, praying, Bible study, meditation, solitude.
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:18.159
There's lots of spiritual disciplines that we could put out there.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:47.920
But as embodied souls in an environment like this where we want faith and faithfulness to be the totality of mental health, uh, and knowing student ministry is an area where sleep and diet and exercise really usually aren't core values, uh, those would be things that I would draw out and say, hey, don't let your season of life become an excuse to create habits that are going to bite you in the years to come.
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:58.880
Uh that set those habits up now so those things don't seem as foreign when you go to the doctor like I did a month ago and he told me I need to get started with those.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:09.280
So, in summary, be fed, physically, spiritually, be fed, and know your limitations.
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:20.880
We are finite human beings, and all of us, counselors included, have capacities and and limitations, and you have to have the self-awareness to know your own limitations.
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:22.480
Great answers.
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.320
Isn't it interesting that everything on social media is called a feed?
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:28.719
Right?
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:30.719
Your news feed, your social media feed.
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:39.840
Like, I mean, I can't say this enough for pastors, but like what we consume from the internet, what we consume from news, what we consume like it it's killing us.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:41.920
And I mean, I love what he said.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:42.719
It's so crazy.
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:44.400
People come in, and I do this myself.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.599
It's like, what do I need to get rid of my anxiety and my depression and my frustration?
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.079
It's like I haven't slept in like six years.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:51.920
You know, I never drink water.
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:56.400
Like, I'm shaking right now, and they've got like literally a Red Bull in their hand in my office.
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.000
And I'm like, how many of those have you had?
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.400
Well, I drank like two cups of coffee and three Red Bull.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:03.840
It's like, yeah, let's give it a break with the energy drinks, guys.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.320
Like, just do that alone, and uh and you'll feel a lot less anxious, I promise.
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.440
We have a new plan for Somersault Kidsalt staffers now, don't we?
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:12.559
Sounds great.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:12.960
Sounds great.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:13.920
Yeah, this is great.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:15.119
All right, absolutely.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.320
Great answers, good, great, very practical.
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:18.800
All right.
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.519
Next question.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.360
What would be considered green and yellow social media apps?
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.679
I think for y'all looking at me.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.000
I think for age appropriateness, okay, this is okay, let's talk about social media.
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:56.639
If you've trained your kid, like you would train them with a gun and a car, if you've discipled them and watched them and equipped them, and you think they're mature enough at 16 or 17 to get on social media and you're willing to monitor it and teach them how to use it appropriately and watch who they're engaging with until you can give them the freedom to do that on their own as an adult, all that preface, then I mean Instagram used to be yellow for me, it's moving to red.
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:07.599
The problem is now that like everything has reels, so everything has things playing that you don't look for, where Instagram used to just be pictures, and so you could like post pictures and stay out of the drama.
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:11.599
Now there's TikTok reels and there's Instagram reels on all of that stuff.
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.119
I mean, even Facebook.
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.280
I was literally looking at Bryant.
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:21.119
I pulled it up, I was looking at Bryant because I was like, how do I share this uh this video that we're doing, Elephant in the Pew?
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:27.039
And there was an ad for like you can undress somebody with AI, you know, at the bottom, literally.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:34.000
And I'm like, I'm literally looking at the Southwestern Seminary, and there's a fake AI porn app, play in, you know, commercial.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.519
Like you can't get you can't get away from these things.
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.599
And so I don't know of much that I would say is not red for kids.
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:49.119
Um it's more about training them to use it since they're going to anyway.
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:53.840
But that's a lot like saying, well, I'm gonna show my kid porn or give them drugs because they're gonna use it anyway.
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:55.760
So I just think you gotta be really careful.
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:57.199
You laugh, but that's the culture.
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:57.920
I heard it.
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:07.920
ABC News literally, the head like interviewer was telling like two years ago, did an article about how she showed her daughter pornography so she could point out how it was all fake and false.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.880
And it's like that that's a crazy world that we live in.
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:17.039
So I don't know what I don't know what would be a that I could say a green app, honestly.
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.920
I mean, even guys, the Bible app.
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.960
Like, you know that you can get to porn through the Bible app.
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.199
So every every app is a social media app.
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:36.960
So if you can add friends and you can add emails, then random people can create profiles and put bot links and things in the messaging that anybody can get to.
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.960
So again, now most kids don't know that, so they're not going to it.
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:48.800
But any app that's online is a social media platform on some way because anybody can access it and add you, and you can add them.
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:53.599
Holy cow.
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:55.280
All right.
00:42:56.320 --> 00:43:00.480
Um any all I keep thinking is definitely not YouTube.
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:12.000
Uh YouTube has within it algorithms to very quickly bring children or unfettered access to problematic material within four or five videos.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:16.079
Is it okay to post hot takes on college football?
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.599
That's all I really want to know.
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:18.800
If you're a Christian?
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:20.239
Okay, I'll stop then.
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.199
I'll stop then.
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:21.679
All right.
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:23.840
As long as you've posted about Jesus.
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:24.320
Yes.
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:34.159
If you can stand up and cheer for LSU, that's what I'm gonna cheering for, and scream your head off and throw your hat because they lost, but you can't raise your hands on Sunday to worship the Lord, you got a problem.
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.719
Okay.
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.519
Thanks for beating us earlier this um uh this year.
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:41.679
All right, let's see what else we got.
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:42.719
Throw another one up.
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:43.440
Sorry.
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:51.280
How do you address sources of anxiety when there are only a necessary part of a student's life?
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.079
Example, when the source of anxiety of a student's grades or school uh schoolwork.
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:57.840
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.679
I'll I'll jump in because I did that session.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:06.880
Um and here again I'd I point to something we did in that session is distinguish between stress and anxiety.
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:08.960
And those are two different things.
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:13.840
So stress is a normal part of everyday life, and stress can either be positive or negative.
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:15.840
It can be motivating or debilitating.
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:23.039
And so we have to help our young people reframe and say this is a normal and necessary part of life, but welcome to life.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:24.719
There are going to be stressful things.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:32.239
And so I want to help you bring it down from an anxiety and a fear to a stress and from distress to motivating stress.
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:35.360
And so how to help them kind of walk walk that down.
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:41.679
We cannot so insulate young people to think that there's never going to be stressors in life.
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.360
That's not preparing them well for adulthood or real living.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.639
So we have to help them frame it rightly and respond to it rightly and not get rid of it.
00:44:52.800 --> 00:45:00.639
We talked about this bullying a little bit, like somebody being mean to you and bumping into you or calling you a name and then falling apart, right?
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.480
Like and we want to go, man, that's sad.
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:06.000
I hate that they were mean to you, but your identity is not based on this one person.
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:10.079
But if that person does that every day for a month, that's a whole different story.
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:15.440
And so I think we have to help kids, you know, clarify on an individual basis what is going on for them.
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.320
Same thing with the word trauma or gaslighting or any of these terms we're using and throwing around.
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:28.800
For me, it always comes back to the relationship piece and the case-by-case basis of going, okay, why are why is this affecting you the way that it is?
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:31.039
Anything else.
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.719
Is this a real fear or a hypothetical fear?
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:45.360
And so there's sometimes fear is telling the truth.
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:47.199
You're in danger.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:46:03.679
And it's an alarm and it's an alert, and that learning how to respond to that the most God-honoring emotional response to a real threat is like God gave us that emotion to energize us to respond to it.
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.079
And what things are hypothetical.
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:15.840
And sometimes I think in discussions around this subject, people have their preferred side of the equation.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:23.360
There's some people who treat all fear as if it is real fear, and it should be responded to as if it's real.
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.599
And that tends to be alarmist.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:35.760
And then there's people who treat all fear as if it's hypothetical fear, and you're just not believing God to care for that thing that hasn't happened yet, and that can be dismissive.
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:46.800
And so differentiating fear from a real response, the person who says, I've got people calling my house and they're trying to foreclose on it because I'm in debt.
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.679
And the person who says, I'm just not sure I've saved for my kids' college fund yet.
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.199
One is real, I'm about to be foreclosed on.
00:46:55.360 --> 00:47:07.760
One is more in the hypothetical, future-oriented, knowing the difference between those things and even helping teenagers sort that laundry is part of the maturational development that is a way that we serve them.
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.679
And as adults who care about them, that is part of our role.
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:17.760
In what ways can Christian universities and seminaries focus on biblical counseling for pastors?
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.960
How can the students learn more themselves?
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:26.000
Yeah, two part.
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:26.719
I'll jump in.
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:41.920
Certainly, I think we have great degree programs, but some institutions don't have the ability to do that.
00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:48.320
Uh but even a class or a certificate or some sort of resource pointing them to Brad's website.
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.400
Um we we are part of a community of learning.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:56.239
Uh, and it is okay to rely on other people for portions of that.
00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:00.880
Um as far as students learning more themselves, I'll say what Clint said earlier.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:09.280
Uh we're gonna learn more about counseling by being counseled, watching others counsel than we will in any classroom.
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:17.840
And I tell my students this we want you watching other people counsel, we want you to be counseled because experientially that's how we're gonna make those connections.
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:22.000
Um you can get your own counseling, you can read on your own.
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:26.000
There are a ton of good resources out there about biblical counseling.
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:33.199
Uh you can do formal degree programs, you can do certificate programs, uh, you can attend conferences like this, you're doing that.
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.079
Hey, can I just um just stop for a second?
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.079
I want to ask a question, just a follow-up to that.
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:56.079
So the question I get sometimes is uh I want to go see a counselor, um I see the word biblical beside their name, I've gone and ex and had counseling from them, but I did not find that to be a truly biblical experience.
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:11.119
What like what is the litmus test for deciding who like if we're talking about we all need to have counseling in order to have experience and to be able to counsel others, then what is the litmus test for figuring out who is worth listening to and who is not?
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:17.199
I I think that is a question that I get a lot, and I don't really know what the answer is to that.
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:25.119
This might be a surprising answer, but I think we forget that we can interview our counselors before we engage their services.
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:25.679
Okay.
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:35.360
Uh so it's perfectly acceptable to have a conversation with them and say, tell me what your understanding is about people, their problems, the solution, sin, brokenness, God, the place of scripture.
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:36.880
We don't think about that.
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:38.639
Uh so that's one option.
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:45.760
Certainly how they talk about on their website or where their what their background is, uh what resources they're promoting.
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:46.559
Okay.
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:47.119
Certainly.
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:49.920
I think just an extension of that.
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:58.559
Um that while I consider myself a biblical counselor, I don't think I can provide good biblical counseling for everything.
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:03.519
Uh that I am the limiting agent.
00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:06.719
My experience, my training, my capacity.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:15.920
Uh, and so for somebody, sometimes it's that their counselor lacked character, lacked training.
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.599
Sometimes it was the counselor wasn't a good fit for their need.
00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:28.000
Uh and so, what is my need for which I am coming to get counseled biblically?
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:36.719
Um is that counselor good at it, whether they use their Bible or not?
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:50.239
Now, in terms of a context of Christian universities and seminaries, uh I think that one of the most powerful things that happens in counseling is the authentic dialogue.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.280
Authentic dialogue.
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.320
The honest, open conversation.
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:08.960
That um, you know, usually if you counsel for a while and then you're old enough that people come to you and they're like, I remember when I counseled with you X number of years ago.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:15.920
They're usually not remembering that really profound thing you said that changed their entire life.
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:21.519
There was that one sentence that just remade my world.
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:26.559
It's usually that relationship over time.
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:34.639
Like one counselor that I know uh did an experiment with several of his counselees, and this was just very telling.
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:39.840
Uh like he let them play in, he wasn't doing an experiment without them knowing, but he said, Here's what we're gonna do.
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.719
I guess they we're gonna say they met on Thursday.
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:44.480
He says, We're gonna meet on Thursday.
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:56.880
When we finish, on Tuesday, we're each going to write down, like email each other, what was the most significant thing that happened in that session the week before.
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:05.679
And so the counselee would write down this is what was most impactful, and the counselor would write down this is the most profound thing I think I said.
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:09.920
Um it never matched.
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:22.079
And that it was much more just having that place of an authentic and informed, it's not just authenticity, the informed of it, the content is not valueless.
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:34.400
But without that place where you feel a sense of trust and being known, it significantly devalues uh the impact of some of the content that does get shared.
00:52:34.559 --> 00:53:00.800
And so in a classroom, the teacher being authentic about their struggle, about how they came to where this was useful, areas of weakness that was shored up by what that modeling of honesty and an invitation where weakness is not abnormal amongst God's people is a huge part to all of this being far more attractive and normalized.
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:08.320
Yeah, I think the thing that separates biblical counseling from psychotherapy is community and scripture.
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:18.320
So it's really scary to me that we live in a world where we can keep everybody's secrets and their community never knows their secrets.
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:48.719
So I think moving forward in the next five to ten years, the goal for me as Christians who are wanting to do counseling or pastors who are looking at their job as shepherding is how do we take people's stories and their pains and their suffering and all these things that they want to heal from, and how do we help them join the community to walk alongside that and help with that instead of being this kind of uh we talked about it earlier, but like Catholic confessional, where we go to the therapist because we don't really want to tell our pastor, we don't want to tell our wife, we don't want to tell our friends.
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:50.159
We share this thing.
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:55.920
And if you're biblical, I think your goal would be who in your life can you go tell these things to?
00:53:56.079 --> 00:54:04.079
I'm not your f best friend, I'm not your pastor, and you need somebody as equally as equipped as me to help you at some point.
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:17.599
I am just here to bridge you to that community versus a psychotherapist who would say, My job is to just be completely private and never tell anybody anything, and I don't care whether you tell anybody anything or not, and that's gonna be isolated.
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:23.679
I think that's a key component to the difference between like whether you say you're a Christian who counsels.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:35.599
I mean, you've got the other problem of lots of people that have licenses who say they're Christian counselors who have no theology training and who aren't gonna talk to them about the deeper, richer things that you know she mentioned.
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.000
And so within your context, you've got to fight really hard to find the right people.
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:45.599
You've got to ask the right questions, you've got to email, you've got to call, you've got to say, okay, how do I advocate for this?
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:53.760
And then lastly, I truly believe that within this room, there are a lot more biblical counselors than you think there are.
00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:11.360
And I would challenge you that if you feel called and gifted to shepherd people, that you figure out how to get that training and get that education and partner with your church so they can somebody have somebody in their own community who's guiding them and loving them and encouraging the staff and encouraging the people.
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:15.679
And I just can't believe that there's so few people who are called to do that.
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:20.239
I just think that I wanted to be a pastor, but I didn't want to preach.
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:24.400
Like I wanted to shepherd people, but I didn't want to stand on a uh uh stage and talk.
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.199
I mean, I know we're doing that, but you know, God does what he wants.
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:32.239
But the reality is that man, there's just so many more of you guys who do this every day.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:33.920
You are counselors, right?
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:37.760
You are shepherds, you are pastors, and that's what we're getting to do.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.079
But we gotta work together.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:44.639
And I think that's the missing piece that I really want the church to get healthy in the next five to ten years.
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:46.559
How about one more question, Kathy?
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:48.239
All right, let's go.
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:54.320
Can we let's acknowledge our veterans?
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:55.760
There are veterans in the room.
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.320
Stand up.
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:58.159
Stand up if you are a veteran.
00:55:58.400 --> 00:55:58.800
Absolutely.
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:00.159
All right, there we go.
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:02.000
Yes, yes, yes.
00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:04.079
Thank you for your service.
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:05.199
Thank you for your service.
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:05.760
Absolutely.
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:06.719
We appreciate you guys.
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:09.440
There we go, that's right.
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:11.440
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:16.480
Well, listen, I think we've come to an end of our time here for Elephant in the Pew today.
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:19.519
Uh, I just want to thank everyone for your participation.
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:25.039
Listen, the the feedback and the response for this was greater than we could have ever imagined.
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:29.679
Um, and we are certainly going to plan and prepare for next year, for next year's Elephant in the Pew.
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:32.559
Uh, before we do that, though, want to do a few things.
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.480
Uh, number one, I just want to say thank you to First Baptist Church and Sage Moody.
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:39.119
Uh, thank you guys for opening up your spot to us.
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:40.960
We're so appreciative of that.
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:42.639
Super gracious.
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:47.840
Um, super thankful of North Greenville University for their worship team coming and leading us to worship today.
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:49.280
They were fantastic as well.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:58.480
And then, of course, let's make sure uh that we thank uh Daniel Kerr, who was the vision behind this, who is a student pastor at East Side Baptist in Spartanburg.
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:00.880
Very thankful for him speaking into that.
00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:04.880
And then, of course, I want to thank uh our leaders for today, all of our experts.
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:06.239
Uh Clint Davis, Dr.
00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:07.440
Kristen Kellen, Dr.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.480
Brad Hambrick, super thankful for your time here.
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:12.559
Um, we had a great experience.
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:14.639
Really appreciate all your wisdom.
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:16.320
Absolutely.
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.920
Um let's do this.
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.000
I'm gonna ask Charlie to come up here real quick.
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:26.559
Um, just got a couple other things I want to highlight as we're kind of wrapping up our time together.
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:28.639
Um quick commercials.
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:38.880
Uh, we're right in the middle of uh recruiting, hiring, and getting ready to train summer staffers for somersault and kids salt staff applications.
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:56.639
Um, if you have a high school senior or a college student that you think is ready to exercise their ministry muscles in a camp setting, we would love to have that conversation with you and show you a little bit about um how we can take them in ministry and use them for God's glory this upcoming summer.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:59.679
So if you're interested in that, please feel free to do that.
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:01.920
Um, would also like to say this.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:13.599
Um, we're already talking a little bit about what the conversation is gonna be for Elephant in the Pew next year, and we already have um kind of our uh direction of where we're gonna go with Elephant in the Pew.
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:25.920
It has become obvious to us that since uh COVID that we've had less teenagers, less children involved in missions.
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:28.880
There's been a fear of that.
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:32.559
There's been less push and desire to see that happen.
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:41.519
And so what we're gonna be talking about and tackling next year is how do we get children and teenagers on mission with the hope of the gospel?
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:44.559
How can we do that with all the challenges that we have?
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:54.320
And so I'm gonna be working with Charlie and Kathy, and we're gonna look a little, talk a little bit about how we can get at that as far as how we can get children and students on the mission field.
00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:58.960
Uh, but Charlie already has an idea of how we can go ahead and get that started.
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:02.159
So I've asked Charlie to come up here and share a little bit about SEGO.
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:09.119
Sure, and I do realize that I'm the last thing before they get up out of the most comfortable black chair you have ever sat in in your entire life.
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:11.519
Uh which I do want I would be remiss.
00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:15.679
He he said a bunch of thank yous to a bunch of them, but this wouldn't happen without Kathy and Brian.
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:19.280
Uh so let's uh let's give some thanks to them.
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:22.079
This is the largest elephant in the pew that has ever been.
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:22.719
Is that right?
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:24.719
So you guys have a lot to be proud of.
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:26.960
So thank you for your work uh in that.
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:33.119
Um so you guys received this card in your bags, and I and it and it has it has two QR codes to it.
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:36.960
So they are both different, and I want to make sure that you guys know what's going on with them.
00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:49.280
So I work for the convention in Next Gen Missions, and I would love to help you in any way that I can get your kids outside of the walls, outside on mission to the nations uh to be involved in ministry everywhere.
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:56.320
On the front, on one side of the card, uh, so in April, uh we're putting on a one-day training session.
00:59:56.480 --> 01:00:06.000
If you are taking your students 6th to 12th grade, if you're taking them anywhere on mission in 2025, we have a one-day training for them.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:12.800
So, what we'd want for you is to bring your team if you're going to Uganda or whether you're going to Myrtle Beach, it doesn't matter.
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:18.639
We would love for you to bring your mission team anywhere between sixth and twelfth grade uh to this mission training.
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:19.679
It's only 15 bucks.
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:24.639
We provide provide lunch, lots of great breakouts for your students directly and your leaders.
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:26.719
So we'd love to for you to take part in that.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:30.159
So that's the blue side of the card there with that QR code.
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:33.119
Uh 15 bucks includes a bunch of swag and lunch.
01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:34.320
We'd love for you guys to be there.
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:37.360
It's in the uh in the Columbia area.
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:41.440
On the other side of the card, there's a brand new initiative that we're launching today.
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:53.519
Uh, because here's the deal over 90% of our IMB missionaries say that the reason why God ignited their heart for missions overseas is because they went on a short-term mission trip.
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:54.880
Let me say it one more time.
01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:04.000
Over 90% of our IMB missionaries say that God ignited their heart for missions while they were on a short-term mission trip and mostly when they were students.
01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:08.239
And so it's incredibly important that you guys get your get your students out on mission.
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:09.199
So here's the deal.
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:14.480
I know that there's a lot of churches out there that they don't have capacity to bring their kids on a mission.
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:18.079
And so it's my job to make sure that that's possible.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:27.519
So there's churches that do go on mission trips that they are allowing uh you to send your students through them through the collaboration of our uh of our convention.
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:33.599
So basically, student ministers are opening up spots for at-large students from anywhere in our state to go with them.
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:39.519
And so the convention is kind of functioning like match.com or Tinder, um, which I know that that's like a red app.
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:40.800
It's a red app.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:41.119
I get it.
01:01:41.920 --> 01:01:47.119
But I can I can guarantee you that the SC Baptist website is not red, okay?
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:48.960
I I I can guarantee it, okay?
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:57.199
So on our website, there's several trips listed, and your students can sign up for those trips and go with other churches just like they would be going with you.
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:58.079
Does that make sense?
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:07.039
And so on where it says SC Go Network, uh, I'd love and you guys can check that out too because you can join that same network and allow kids to go with you as well if you're going on a mission trip.
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:11.760
So anyway, if if you have any questions about missions and student missions, I would love to talk with you after the day.
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.000
Yeah, just want to say love what Charlie's doing.
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:21.519
I think it um his vision for seeing students um on the mission field, children, teenagers, I just think is great.
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:24.880
I think we something that is worthy, uh worth being involved with.
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:27.519
So uh would like to encourage you to check that out for sure.
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:31.760
So, anyway, listen, we have come to the end of Elephant the Pew.
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.840
We are so grateful for your engagement, your participation in this.
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.280
It has been a great day.
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:43.519
I know a lot of y'all have got uh maybe a trip home, uh, but if you're sticking around, you're gonna be at the annual meeting.
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:47.840
We can't wait to see you at the annual meeting so we can celebrate what God has done this past year.
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:48.719
Thank you so much.
01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:50.079
God bless, we'll see you later.
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:51.199
Thanks so much.
01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:59.760
Thanks for listening to the SE Baptist Podcast.
01:02:59.920 --> 01:03:07.280
This SC Baptist resource is made possible through the cooperative program giving of South Carolina Baptist Churches.
00:00:06.959 --> 00:00:10.960
One family on one mission through one cooperative effort.
00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:14.640
You are now listening to the SE Baptist Podcast.
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.879
Listen, welcome to our panel discussion time.
00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:31.519
This is really one of my favorite times of the day where we get to take uh live questions from our audience and and let our experts lead and guide and respond to those.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:37.119
Before we do that though, before we get into too much of that, I do want to say thank you to Southeastern Seminary.
00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:45.920
They have uh sponsored our break time, so all the snacks and drinks and food and coffee and things like that bags, they've provided that for us.
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And so uh yeah, absolutely.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:49.200
So super appreciative.
00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:54.799
Um we're we're we're fortunate enough to have uh two professors here with us from Southeastern.
00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:55.439
Uh Dr.
00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:06.959
Kellen was just gonna ask you like, why why should someone who's in here who wants to consider training and furthering their continuing education, why should Southeastern be a place they consider?
00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:08.959
Can I say because we're the best seminary in the industry?
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.040
Oh well hey, watch out now.
00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:11.840
Watch out.
00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:16.000
I mean we've got a lot of seminaries represented in here, but there are, yes.
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Uh do you have any Southeastern current students or alumni in here?
00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:20.480
All right.
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:20.799
Okay.
00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:22.400
So they can attest to you.
00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:25.120
Uh all of our seminaries are wonderful seminaries.
00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:25.439
Yep.
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:30.079
Uh we all partner together to for the sake of the gospel in advancing the Great Commission.
00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:32.400
Uh, so you're in good hands at any of them.
00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:46.799
I may be a little bit biased, uh, but Southeastern is a place that I've been for almost two decades now, uh, and it has been a joy and a privilege to labor alongside of brothers and sisters uh to share the Great Commission, fulfill the Great Commission.
00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:50.079
Uh Southeastern has all sorts of training programs.
00:01:50.159 --> 00:02:01.359
So if you leave today and you think I need more, and I want to do theology in community, like we've been talking about earlier today, like Clint was talking about earlier, uh, we have everything from Ghost certificates.
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:01.760
Dr.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:04.079
Hambrick and I have taught for those Ghost certificates.
00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:10.639
We have bachelor's, master's, three doctoral programs in counseling, and a host of other areas of specialization.
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.439
Uh we are known as the Happy Seminary.
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:15.039
We have a lot of fun.
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.280
Uh we're serious about accomplishing the work of God, but we have a lot of fun doing it.
00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.400
So if that sounds like your flavor of school, come on and join us.
00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:24.400
Absolutely, very good, very good.
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:31.680
Well, listen, uh, here's what we want to do right now is that we want to open up the floor to questions that you would like to send in.
00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:39.199
Maybe some questions that came up during your breakout time that you didn't get an opportunity to ask, you're gonna have the opportunity to do that now.
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:40.639
So here's how this works.
00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.439
So we have a QR code that's on the screen.
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Uh we want to encourage everyone to grab your phones, scan that QR code.
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It's gonna take you to a link where you can begin to begin the process of asking questions.
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And what's gonna happen is, is as you text in questions, we have a couple of screeners in the back of the room.
00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:04.240
Um, uh one student pastor, another former student pastor who was uh kind of the vision behind this.
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:12.159
They're gonna be selecting those questions, and as they come up on the screen, uh we'll allow our experts to dive in and respond to those.
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.199
So go ahead and get your phones out if you want to go ahead and participate.
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.759
Um, that screen is not gonna always be up there, uh, so it's gonna be up there for another minute or two.
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:26.319
I'm gonna go ahead and ask just a couple of questions, though, to go ahead and get us started on this conversation.
00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:26.879
Uh, Dr.
00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:28.639
Hambrick, I'm gonna start with you.
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So the way that I found out about you was I had a senior pastor who used to be a student pastor, uh, mention to me, I was talking to him about premarital counseling, leading a couple through that process, and I had a senior pastor mention to me Bradhambrick.com and your resources section, and how you make so many of your resources available uh to pastors, ministers that can use the biblical counseling principles that you teach, use them in their local church setting.
00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:12.479
Would you talk a little bit about what what your website is about, what is designed, and how it can help children's ministry leaders and student pastors in the room uh with shepherding and ministering to the next generation?
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:13.919
I'd be happy to.
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Yes.
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Uh and so the website is just simply my name, uh Bradham Brick.com.
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And uh you know, a lot of people look at the number of resources there and they go, wow, you're really generous.
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Uh I would say my church is really generous uh that I have the opportunity to serve on staff at a church uh where my role is pastor of counseling, no slash.
00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.879
Uh many of us here live with a variety of titles.
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We are the pastor of this slash that slash another thing.
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Uh I get to devote my time to developing resources.
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Um I serve uh is that we place a very high emphasis on church planting.
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Uh it's our ambition to plant a thousand churches in this generation.
00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:06.079
Uh we're well on our way to doing that.
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:13.279
And so in a position like mine, resourcing churches, resourcing churches is something my church wants me to do.
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Uh and so they allow me to put together uh or devote a significant amount of my time to developing resources.
00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:24.399
Uh so if you go on there and you just kind of scroll down the page, you're gonna see a series of buttons.
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It's alphabetical uh from anger to whatever struggle starts with Z.
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Um and uh you'll see that it's arranged topically.
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And so as I do a new post on a given subject, uh I try to make it easy to find.
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Uh there's video-based content, written content, uh that hopefully uh will serve you well and try to make it where it's easy to find what you're looking for.
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Yep, yeah, it's excellent, excellent work.
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It's definitely worth going to Bradhambrook.com.
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Definitely that resources section is fantastic.
00:05:57.600 --> 00:05:58.560
Um, Dr.
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Kellen, I was gonna ask you so I could be wrong about this, um, but the most recent quick reference counseling guide or book for teenagers is really, in a lot of ways, decades old.
00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:16.480
Like the most recent one is is long ago.
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From what I understand, you are writing a book on reaching teenagers and children, counseling them in their issues.
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Would you talk a little bit about like what that book's about, where are you going with it, when will it be available?
00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:31.279
Share a little bit about that.
00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.079
Uh I just turned in the draft to the editor about two weeks ago.
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Okay.
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:38.720
Uh which means it'll take over a year to come out because that's how publishing works.
00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:44.560
Uh so early spring of 26, it's a book on counseling teens from a biblical perspective.
00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:45.199
You're right.
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The most recent books were about 12 to 13 years old.
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Right.
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And so I thought, well, teenagers today are different than they were a decade ago.
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Yep.
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:54.560
So we need to be able to attend to them.
00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.519
So in that book, I'm creating a framework for how do we understand people and their problems and counseling.
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:10.399
So kind of 30,000-foot view, and then walk through 13 or 14 different issues that teenagers face and how do we help them from scripture where they are developmentally.
00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:20.959
So I do chapters on suicide, self-harm, gender dysphoria, same-sex attraction, addiction, pornography, uh, anxiety, depression, fill in the blank.
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There's a bunch of them.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, looking forward to when that comes out for sure.
00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:25.439
Absolutely.
00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:26.160
Me too.
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:28.160
And Clint was gonna absolutely.
00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:40.000
Tell us a little bit about uh your free resource that we gave this year at Elephant the Pew is Clint's book uh that he wrote.
00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:41.680
When did you write that book?
00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:44.000
Uh it came out last November.
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.720
Okay, yeah.
00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.000
Tell us a little bit about the background of why you wrote that book.
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:49.360
Yeah, so same thing.
00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:59.680
I mean, the resources for uh parenting around sexual health and development and discipling our kids through you know zero to eighteen, there's just not a lot out there in the biblical world.
00:07:59.839 --> 00:07:59.920
Right.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:19.040
And I have two boys, and so we're going through all the development of little kids and their bodies changing and having questions about babies, and and I also work in the addiction realm, and so seeing all the trauma from church and not having these conversations and neglecting that, um, and then all my friends are calling me, being like, hey, my four-year-old's doing this, what do I do?
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:21.759
And I got tired of telling them, so I wrote a book about it.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:36.559
Um, but seriously, I mean I think if you're a parent, you know, I don't most people don't have time to listen to 12 podcasts and read the 30 books that are out there, and so I tried to just take all of the best little pieces and put it into one resource so parents could kind of have it all in one spot.
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:37.120
Very good.
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:38.320
Okay, excellent, excellent.
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.480
Yeah, these are all things that are worth considering.
00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:48.799
Um really do appreciate what you guys are doing, making it available to help children's ministers, student pastors uh be more effective in reaching the next generation.
00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:52.080
All right, I think we're ready for some uh live questions here.
00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.000
All right, so here we go.
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:01.360
All right, you guys ready?
00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:02.399
Here's our first question.
00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.559
Can Snapchat really be safe for your teen?
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:07.679
No.
00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:08.399
No.
00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:17.279
This is what I would call like a red, there's green, yellow, and red social media apps, and this would be a red.
00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:18.000
No.
00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:19.519
Why is it a red?
00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.759
Well, it's red because you can't monitor it, you can't keep track of what they send.
00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:29.279
Uh well, Snapchat does, so as they send new pictures back and forth to each other, Snapchat has it, but they don't.
00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:34.000
Um there's tons of inappropriate content, tons of strangers.
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:37.759
I mean, there's their brains aren't developed enough to use it appropriately.
00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:43.279
It's also harming them with their inability to have conversations and literally talk back and forth.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.080
So they're you know spending five years texting three words in a picture to each other and that's how they communicate.
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.840
Um got any other reasons?
00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:51.279
Would you add anything else?
00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:53.200
I I would echo all of that.
00:09:53.360 --> 00:10:09.679
And just because we're talking to parents and helpers of parents, uh, I would say we we need to be more assertive and firm to say if if this is in the red category, and I'd wholeheartedly agree, it is okay for us to say no, you may not have this, uh, and have some boldness there.
00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:10.720
Yeah, good word.
00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:18.799
And please don't take your youth group somewhere and then say, hey, everybody download Snapchat so that we can send each other pictures from the event.
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:20.000
Because that happens.
00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:21.600
Very good.
00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:22.080
Okay.
00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:23.440
Well, not good.
00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:23.919
Not good.
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:25.200
Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:27.039
All right, we'll see what else.
00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.759
Uh what's our next question that's come in here?
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:31.440
All right.
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:39.440
How do you have conversations with children and students when a peer or family member dies by suicide?
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.960
So I think in terms of two timetables here.
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:47.519
One is before they know, uh, the second is after.
00:10:48.000 --> 00:11:02.879
Uh and so I'm not quite sure if this question is how do you tell them about what happened, or if it's more a question about how do you process with them uh after they found out what happened.
00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:20.639
Um anytime when it comes to difficult things with children, uh, I think one of the things that gets in the way most for us as adults, and we talked about this in one of the breakouts, is we tend to help kids navigate our world instead of helping kids navigate their world.
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:35.039
And so there's lots of questions, and you know, on something like this, do we start to have beliefs about gun control and things like that, that when you get 18, here's how I want you to vote on this so that this never happens again.
00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.480
Well, to an eight-year-old, that's at least a decade away.
00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:42.799
That's not helping them navigate uh their world.
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:49.679
Um and so uh as much as I can, and usually I get this information by listening.
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:55.679
And so uh give them enough information uh that they know what happened.
00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.879
Uh confusion prompts creativity.
00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:03.200
Uh kids are going to fill in the information that we don't give them.
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:14.480
Uh and so uh the more ambiguous we are in the name of being delicate, uh, we're leaving more room for creativity there.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:23.120
We don't want to be um vulgar or things that are shocking in how we describe it.
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:26.799
Um don't assume conversation.
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:33.919
Uh like there's a sense in which we kind of think, okay, I'm going to do this, and then when we're done, whew, it's over.
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.679
The goal of the initial conversation is to invite questions.
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:50.240
You really know whether you did a good job uh with the initial conversation, with whether or not you get questions.
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:55.759
If you don't get questions, that usually doesn't mean you were so clear that they didn't have any.
00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:04.159
That's much more an indication that they were overwhelmed or like it was hard for them to process what they got.
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.639
Uh kids tend to do things in bytes.
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.480
Uh, even emotionally, they'll do it in smaller bytes.
00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:16.159
So give them information, leave it open-ended, uh, touch base with them.
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:24.480
Uh just saying, hey, how are you doing with in whatever the family member's name would be, uh, with their passing.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.919
Uh coming back where they know it really is okay for them to speak about that.
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:39.600
Um the freedom to share is as important as the sharing itself in terms of their long-term emotional health and processing.
00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:48.720
I think the only thing I would add, which I think you were getting at, Brad, was we need to speak on the child's terms.
00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.399
So an eight-year-old doesn't understand what the word suicide means.
00:13:53.039 --> 00:14:08.559
So we want to be very careful to speak in concrete terms, simple terms that they can understand giving appropriate details, developmentally appropriate, um, but recognizing too that it's going to take them time to process and grieve through that.
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.840
Um, and they may understand new things at different stages.
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:15.679
So just we we step into their world instead of making them step into ours.
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.480
That last comment that Kristen made is huge.
00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:31.039
Kids they grieve at the in the way that their current stage of development will allow them.
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:36.159
And so as they age, let's say they lose a parent.
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:48.399
Um, well, at homecoming when they're 16 and like their parents supposed to be there with them, the fact that that is freshly hard isn't a relapse of grief.
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.159
It's just that grief wasn't available to them at 10.
00:14:52.399 --> 00:15:02.240
And so that comment about development and the way that that works through, uh, it's for the child, they often wonder, did I not grieve completely back then?
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:19.440
No, you grieved as holistically as you could when you were 10 or when you were 12, and as you matured, new elements of grief became came into your capacity, and helping them understand that so that they don't view the earlier grief as failure uh can be important.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:20.879
Crushed it.
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:22.240
Absolutely.
00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:36.639
On the topic of deconstruction, what do you think are the main reasons behind most stories of deconstruction?
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.320
What can the church and leaders do to prevent this?
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:44.320
Okay.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:59.600
You know, there's a piece of me that wants to recognize, we're talking about human development, the developmental appropriateness of trying to sift through one's own beliefs.
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:11.360
So if that's the aspect of deconstruction that's happening, that is actually developmentally normal and appropriate, provided that we give them resources to reconstruct after.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:17.600
I don't know that we need a fancy word to place on a developmentally normal process.
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.559
Now, I would want to ask the question: what has led to this?
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:24.240
Is it developmentally normal?
00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.399
Is it some sort of church hurt?
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:28.639
Is it some sort of trauma?
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:29.600
What is it?
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:36.480
And that frames for me how I come alongside of them and help them piece those things together.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:44.320
Uh, it is actually unhealthy to walk through something problematic, a loss or a trauma, and not wrestle with your faith.
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.960
That's more problematic to me than the deconstruction, reconstruction piece.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.399
So, what's what's the circumstances?
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:51.200
How are they doing that?
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.279
Do they have what they need to build it back up?
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.600
I mean, yeah, I think uh that's great.
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:09.599
I think um the reality is that like you said, deconstruction depends on the definition that you're using.
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:17.920
Um I would say we're all deconstructing parts of faith and parts of church and the American system, and that's a good thing.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:24.640
Um I think we should deconstruct a lot of American Christianity and get back to some historical Christianity as we talked about earlier on.
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:31.119
I think when dis deconstruction, as the way we're probably using it or it's questioned, is is when somebody's already made their mind up.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:34.480
So they're they're going confirmation bias is the thing.
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:43.839
They they're mad they want a way out of the church, so now they're gonna prove why God's bad and why the church doesn't work and why everything's negative, and so they're looking for anything that can affirm that.
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.640
And um, I think we have to have a lot of grace and empathy for that.
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:56.720
I think we have to sit with people and love on them and hear their story and and speak truth and grace at the same time and say, okay, well, I hear you in that part, but this part's still true.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:08.720
Um and I think we have to be really good with scripture and and bring it back to the text and read the text as it is instead of going to the text with a certain issue and then go, okay, I want to prove this thing, so I'm gonna go to the text.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.880
I've got to let the text say what the text has said for thousands of years and go from there.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:16.720
And it's a spirit working to do that.
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:25.920
Um I have a counseling client right now that has just walked through all of this process, and no amount of logical argument could kind of turn that train around.
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:38.640
I I had to wait and be patient for the Holy Spirit to come in and patiently show her I am good, I am kind, I am real, I am loving, but that was the Spirit's work, not my work.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.640
Uh so it's not it's not a large logical argumentation there.
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.680
All right, let's go to the next question.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:47.839
We've talked about sexual trauma.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.599
How do we handle the offender?
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.200
What about an afternoon incarceration they want to attend our church?
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:58.000
Yeah, it's a tough question.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:07.359
And uh it is one that in ways that I like are uniquely hard at our church.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.240
Um for those of you who don't know, Summit Church is a multi-site church.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:16.079
Uh we have two sites in prisons.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:29.200
And so every week uh in two state prisons near our church, uh we have church while men and women are incarcerated.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:20:02.160
Uh and uh so that uh there's a blue card process and a salmon card process that you go through at different stages in incarceration that uh in the exit process, so that you have a lower recidism rate if folks have relationships when they get on the back side of their uh tenure in prison so that they don't go from prison with a lot of structure to out of prison with no structure whatsoever.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:11.119
That means as a church, for a whole variety of offenses, uh we have a whole lot of such were some of you.
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.200
Kind of borrowing from that phrase in 1 Corinthians.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:36.480
Um with a subject like sex offenders, where this recidicism rate is exceedingly high, uh and uh the presence of children and the easy access of children uh is not just a liability, it's a temptation.
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:59.359
Uh and so the uh posture that we have taken is that uh anyone who is under RSO status, uh they have a shepherding presence with them at all times, uh, from the time they come on our campus until the time that they leave our campus, uh, that person cannot be a family member.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.200
Uh a spouse would not count.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:09.920
Uh, the reality of that is the spouse was probably in their life for a period of time while that was going on.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:20.640
And to ask a spouse to serve the dual role of spouse and accountability is just really unfair.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:29.279
I will tell you it's only about 30 percent of those who are offenders who will agree to our policy.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.720
Um that the majority feel like it is too intrusive.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:43.440
Uh I will also tell you we get attacked on a regular basis online for our uh policy being too lax and too free.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:59.279
Uh that people that I really respect would say, uh, once you have crossed that threshold, uh, access to minors in any way, uh, that this should only be a home church experience with uh no children there whatsoever.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:11.119
Uh Again, with that shepherding presence, as you don't serve in student ministry or children's ministry, you don't go into those areas of the church that are campuses.
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:23.119
We have campuses that create some weird language there of like we want campus awareness as opposed to church-wide awareness because like this person isn't at those other campuses.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:33.839
And so putting something in place, if you create a policy, if you create a policy and you don't follow through on it, you did not create a policy, you created a liability.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:42.880
Good intentions on the front end and not follow up on the back end is not a blessing to anybody.
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.960
It gives a false sense of security to the parents who are entrusting their children to the church.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.920
And when and if something goes wrong, it creates a greater liability for the church.
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.960
Now we should do this well, not out of fear for liability, but out of love for one another.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:05.359
And so that's that's where we are, that's where it's critiqued in different ways.
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:07.200
I hope that's helpful.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:08.160
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.519
Anything y'all want to add to that?
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:18.160
I would just say that the importance of recovery for the victim and where they're at and the walk that the church has done, and that's why it takes a robust thing.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.000
I mean, I think everything you said was spot on.
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:20.880
Like that's so good.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.240
I think it takes balance, right?
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:40.799
It it it's a the reality is we live in a world where people do horrible things to each other and there's sin and there's brokenness, but if there's supervision and reconciliation and responsibility, if a person was coming to a church or a community and they were saying, I don't need supervision, I'm fine, that would cue me in that they haven't recovered and they're not a safe person.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.759
So that would actually be the reason why they wouldn't be coming to the church.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:49.440
Um if the person was taking full responsibility and saying, I own this, this is my testimony.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:24:00.240
God is redeeming and has redeemed me from this thing, and so whatever I need to do for the body of Christ, I'll do that at my my you know, diligence and my accountability.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.240
That's gonna bleed a lot safer in.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:11.440
So I think as you have those conversations, the health of the person and the recovery of the person and the work Christ has done in their life is gonna say a lot about where you can move and how you can move.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:20.400
Most of the time, the people who don't want the boundaries and who push back give you a very clear indication, but you've got to have the boundaries in order to find that out.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:26.400
Well, and just putting some logistical flesh to that in terms of what that looks like.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:36.400
If somebody wants to serve and they've got a background as an RSO, uh they're not in any leadership position where they have authority over others.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:43.279
Uh and so uh tech team, parking team, different teams that we have along the church that are just serving.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:53.519
But even with that, uh, when they would come to us and say, we want to serve, um as a church, we feel like we have a shepherding due diligence.
00:24:53.680 --> 00:25:02.240
Uh, and so that means going to folks on that team and saying, hey, there's somebody that would like to serve.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.559
This is part of their background.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.359
Uh would that make anyone here uncomfortable?
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.319
You don't have to tell us in this moment, you can tell us later.
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.559
You don't have to tell us why.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.200
Like this is one where we don't need to pry to get that information.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:25.839
Uh, but we're going to look for a location for them to serve that is not disruptive and feels safe with a small group.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:38.720
That if they want to be a part of a small group, we look for a small group without uh children, we approach the small group, we have the same kind of conversation, that becomes a closed small group if they say yes.
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:49.519
Because you can do your due diligence on the front end, and then somebody else joins that group later, and it's not just about are there children in that group.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:26:06.640
You can have other victims of abuse for whom that is if their weekly discipleship rhythm involves that degree of traumatic triggering, uh, it's going to be a major deterrence to their growth.
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:15.119
Uh and so uh that's one where you don't get into ministry to avoid having the awkward conversations.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.559
You know, my title is pastor of counseling.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.960
People ask me what does that mean?
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:28.079
Uh one spoofy version I have for my title, amongst many other, is I'm the pastor of whatever makes you uncomfortable.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:42.640
Um because these types of things that are that level of discomfort, I don't know why everything that makes people uncomfortable is counseling, uh, but that seems to be the uh jobs as otherwise specified line item in my job description.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:44.640
All right, next question we've got.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.839
Oh, here we go.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:51.119
Is nethetic counseling ever viable or should we always use integrated strategies?
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:53.200
This is gonna be an interesting discussion, I think.
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:54.400
Here we go.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:56.880
I don't mind.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:57.599
Go for it.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.279
Uh and so I think for some folks, this is a very informed question.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.519
Well, this is a very informed question.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:11.039
For some folks, we may need some explanation uh for a Greek term.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:27.599
Uh so neuthetic counseling is a uh counseling tradition began in the 1970s, uh around 1970, that specific year, with the publication of a book uh called Competent to Counsel uh by Jay Adams.
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.400
Uh until around 2012, uh it was called Nuthetic Counseling.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:38.559
Uh they then had a name change where they're now the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:45.680
Uh so neuthetic is still the clearest term uh because biblical counseling is kind of like saying vanilla ice cream.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:50.400
Uh there's uh it's it's not the most specific term.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.240
Uh newhetic counseling, it comes from the word nutheteo.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.559
I know you all do your devotions in the Greek New Testament, um, meaning to confront.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:06.720
And uh and so the question here is is nuthetic counseling ever viable?
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.119
And then the flip side, should we always integrate?
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:21.759
In terms of critiquing a question, uh putting the words ever and always in your questions gives me a great scapegoat.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:41.440
There's times when nuthetic counseling is really, really useful on issues of maturation, where clear direction, guidance, instruction, correction that is what neuthetic counseling does in spades.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:58.079
When somebody has a strong commitment to scripture, neuthetic counseling is very dependent upon a shared presupposition on the authority and utility of scripture.
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:12.400
I did the first decade of my counseling in a parachurch environment where I could not assume every person who came for me had that kind of shared commitment.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.160
I had plenty of counselees who were Southern Christians.
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:21.279
Um I'm American, I'm a Christian.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:26.000
Uh like that sense of like we're a Christian nation, this is who we are, right?
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:36.480
Uh and that degree of shared presupposition was uh was not something that could be assumed.
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:43.279
Um now that question of should we always integrate?
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:47.519
Uh there's a whole load of term in integration.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.480
And what does it mean and what degree of utilization is there?
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.680
Uh I would say, are there areas where being clinically informed is really important?
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.400
Well, I teach at Southeastern.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:06.799
The tagline for our counseling program is that we do clinically informed biblical counseling.
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:18.319
Uh that we, those parts of the social sciences uh that carry validity and they're good, we want to learn from that.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:24.400
We think it would be foolish not to learn from those who do excellent work in their field.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.799
We also recognize there's a calling to eat the fish and spit out the bones.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.200
The noetic effects of sin are not erased by science.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:41.680
And so even those things that have an empirical base, the assumptions of our day and age, get embedded within that.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:53.599
Uh and so if this conversation is really interesting to you and you hear that and your spidey sense is tingling in a good way, you should come study with us.
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:58.000
Uh that is, you know, I think you're gonna smile and go, yeah, that's what we do.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:09.119
Uh that if you go, ah, I want to be a faithful shepherd uh teacher, uh, that uh that that's my calling.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:19.759
Uh then to get into counseling in its clinical expression and do things that would fit in a parachurch or professional setting is probably not going to feel like something that is a great fit for you.
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.319
Uh I think Jesus can be honored at every point along that spectrum.
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:44.559
In the same way that there's some folks who go, you know, I feel called to education, and I want to teach in an overtly Christian school environment because I don't want any restrictions on what I can say, and I want to teach in an environment that is uh that my context is a wind at my back for what I want to do.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:56.960
And other people will go, no, I want to missionally be in a public school environment because I want to be a salt and light uh presence in those places, and I want to do that redemptively and missionally.
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:02.240
Well, those are the ones who have more of a clinically informed bent to how they go about it.
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:04.400
So correct me.
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:09.680
No, I'd agree with all of that, and I know you've you've taught a lot on that and talked a lot on that.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:17.519
Um I think just to boil some of it down, I think three things matter, and like a good Baptist, they're all starting with the same letter.
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:22.480
Uh one is uh the context in which we're counseling.
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:29.200
So, as Brad mentioned, if you are a pastor in a church, you're probably going to be doing more neuthetic biblical counseling.
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:34.799
If you are a uh a chaplain in the military, that's gonna look a little different.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.240
If you're at a state mental health hospital, that's gonna look different.
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.240
If you're at a private practice, that's gonna look different.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:46.559
Your context in many ways can drive whether you're doing neuthetic, integrated, fill in the blank, right?
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.480
The second one is the client or the counselee, what do they need?
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:51.680
What's their struggle?
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.279
Is it admonition maturity?
00:32:53.359 --> 00:33:03.200
Is it unrepentant sin, or is it some sort of uh deep, complex trauma or some other issue, ADHD, those sorts of things?
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:05.359
What are their needs that are present?
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:12.960
We attend to their needs just like we attend to a child, uh, we don't want to make them force them into our box.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:14.400
And then third is the counselor.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.160
So how have we been trained?
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.000
What tools do we have in our tool belt?
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:19.599
Don't step outside of your lane.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:24.319
So I as a counselor can't prescribe medication, so I don't prescribe medication.
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:29.519
Uh so what areas of newthetic to integration, where am I trained on?
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.960
How can I do that well?
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.640
And I need to stay in my lane.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:33.839
So yeah.
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.799
You don't believe in integrated strategies, do you?
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.000
No integrated strategies.
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:39.680
Science, throw it out.
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:39.920
No.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.200
Uh yeah, no, I I think uh everything they said is accurate.
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:48.079
I mean, I think it depends on where you're at, the context in which you're in, your client caseload.
00:33:48.240 --> 00:34:02.400
Um, as I've said from the beginning, I think I I, you know, got my master's in marriage and family therapy, got licenses, got all the certifications, but then quickly realized like, you know, for 10, 15 years, I'm like, hey guys, church, we should talk about the brain and the body and how God made us.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:06.240
And now we're over here going, can we stop labeling all these things as all these things?
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:12.000
So it's an interesting time in history to have that question because we don't know.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:20.559
I mean, we're in the middle trying to figure it out, but I think if if it's good in psychology and it's good in science, there is going to be biblical principle and base to it.
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:33.840
And so, you know, there's a lot of things that we can look at that that the world would say is a scientific evidence for something, and then we can go back to scripture and go, well, that doesn't make sense based on even your own science.
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.559
So, you know, it can be very confusing and convoluted.
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:46.800
So I think it's again, if we get back to the church and discipleship and our context, and a lot of that stuff works itself out, um, I think the other problem is need.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.519
Um, as I talked about at the beginning, uh it's like so being in the army.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:35:00.559
If you only like let's say you're a medic and you don't know how to shoot your M16 or drag somebody out of like a crisis, right?
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:12.159
But it's like our society is basically, in some ways, as a church, going, hey, listen, we're not combat engineers, we don't know how to shoot our guns, and when the bad guys in the crisis gets here, it's like you need to go to counseling, right?
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.199
As if we don't have the Holy Spirit within us and we can't do anything.
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.159
So we all I think do need basic training.
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:19.440
What is that training?
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.199
Is the question, and I think that can be tiered up depending on your context.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:28.239
So I would say all of us need more training about how God wired us, how we were created.
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:35.519
Depending on like how far you need to go in that education, depends on how much you're gonna be doing that specific type of counseling and care.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:42.480
But I think part of the problem is is like like we're doing this whole thing because most of us don't have any basic training in seminary and in church.
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:50.960
And so I would like to lean a little bit more on the integration of like the science with the theology if we're gonna be dealing with humans in all of their pain.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.320
All right, Kathy, I know you've got the next question.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:54.880
No pressure.
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:56.480
We've got 50 questions in the key thing.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.480
Oh, well, that's just go at it.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.519
All right, here we go.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.480
All right, next one.
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:05.119
How important is it for youth pastors to take care of their own mental health?
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.440
And what are some practical tips to do so?
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:17.679
I mean, uh who I was talking to somebody, maybe it was Tucker, I think, earlier, and I was saying, um, what's the best way to get like you know, to know about counseling, what should I read?
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:19.199
And I said, You should go to counseling.
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:25.039
Like I think one of the biggest problems is that like the biggest training tool for me was going to therapy for 23 years.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.400
So it's like, if you're gonna be a pastor and you've never been pastored, that's a problem, right?
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.719
If you want to shepherd people but no one's ever shepherded you, it's a problem.
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:56.400
And so if you want to counsel people and know what it's like to be vulnerable and share emotions and for somebody to check their watch or yawn or show up late or all the things that go on in counseling, then the best thing you can do is sit on the couch and talk and process and like do the work, because then you're gonna have a load of empathy for the people that you're asking to do something.
00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:04.800
And I think if I get from the beginning, like if we're asking people to do things that we're not doing for them, that's a major problem within the church.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:25.679
In terms of like some real practical tips, if you get 50 hours of sleep a week, if you're not averaging seven hours a week a night, um, then you're living with a sleep debt, that's gonna significantly impair uh your cognitive functioning.
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:28.400
Uh eat a balanced diet.
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:38.719
Like if chemical balance is a significant part of uh mental health, it's not the totality of it, it's significant of it.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:43.119
Where does our body get the raw material to create a chemical balance?
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:45.039
From our diet.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:49.199
Right.
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:54.000
Uh that regular cardiovascular exercise.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:38:06.400
Uh nothing has been proven more effective at treating anxiety and depression than getting 30 minutes of cardiovascular exercise three to five times a week.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.280
We are embodied souls.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:15.119
Like good friends, praying, Bible study, meditation, solitude.
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:18.159
There's lots of spiritual disciplines that we could put out there.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:47.920
But as embodied souls in an environment like this where we want faith and faithfulness to be the totality of mental health, uh, and knowing student ministry is an area where sleep and diet and exercise really usually aren't core values, uh, those would be things that I would draw out and say, hey, don't let your season of life become an excuse to create habits that are going to bite you in the years to come.
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:58.880
Uh that set those habits up now so those things don't seem as foreign when you go to the doctor like I did a month ago and he told me I need to get started with those.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:09.280
So, in summary, be fed, physically, spiritually, be fed, and know your limitations.
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:20.880
We are finite human beings, and all of us, counselors included, have capacities and and limitations, and you have to have the self-awareness to know your own limitations.
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:22.480
Great answers.
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.320
Isn't it interesting that everything on social media is called a feed?
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:28.719
Right?
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:30.719
Your news feed, your social media feed.
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:39.840
Like, I mean, I can't say this enough for pastors, but like what we consume from the internet, what we consume from news, what we consume like it it's killing us.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:41.920
And I mean, I love what he said.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:42.719
It's so crazy.
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:44.400
People come in, and I do this myself.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.599
It's like, what do I need to get rid of my anxiety and my depression and my frustration?
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.079
It's like I haven't slept in like six years.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:51.920
You know, I never drink water.
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:56.400
Like, I'm shaking right now, and they've got like literally a Red Bull in their hand in my office.
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.000
And I'm like, how many of those have you had?
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.400
Well, I drank like two cups of coffee and three Red Bull.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:03.840
It's like, yeah, let's give it a break with the energy drinks, guys.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.320
Like, just do that alone, and uh and you'll feel a lot less anxious, I promise.
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.440
We have a new plan for Somersault Kidsalt staffers now, don't we?
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:12.559
Sounds great.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:12.960
Sounds great.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:13.920
Yeah, this is great.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:15.119
All right, absolutely.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.320
Great answers, good, great, very practical.
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:18.800
All right.
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.519
Next question.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.360
What would be considered green and yellow social media apps?
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.679
I think for y'all looking at me.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.000
I think for age appropriateness, okay, this is okay, let's talk about social media.
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:56.639
If you've trained your kid, like you would train them with a gun and a car, if you've discipled them and watched them and equipped them, and you think they're mature enough at 16 or 17 to get on social media and you're willing to monitor it and teach them how to use it appropriately and watch who they're engaging with until you can give them the freedom to do that on their own as an adult, all that preface, then I mean Instagram used to be yellow for me, it's moving to red.
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:07.599
The problem is now that like everything has reels, so everything has things playing that you don't look for, where Instagram used to just be pictures, and so you could like post pictures and stay out of the drama.
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:11.599
Now there's TikTok reels and there's Instagram reels on all of that stuff.
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.119
I mean, even Facebook.
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.280
I was literally looking at Bryant.
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:21.119
I pulled it up, I was looking at Bryant because I was like, how do I share this uh this video that we're doing, Elephant in the Pew?
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:27.039
And there was an ad for like you can undress somebody with AI, you know, at the bottom, literally.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:34.000
And I'm like, I'm literally looking at the Southwestern Seminary, and there's a fake AI porn app, play in, you know, commercial.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.519
Like you can't get you can't get away from these things.
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.599
And so I don't know of much that I would say is not red for kids.
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:49.119
Um it's more about training them to use it since they're going to anyway.
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:53.840
But that's a lot like saying, well, I'm gonna show my kid porn or give them drugs because they're gonna use it anyway.
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:55.760
So I just think you gotta be really careful.
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:57.199
You laugh, but that's the culture.
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:57.920
I heard it.
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:07.920
ABC News literally, the head like interviewer was telling like two years ago, did an article about how she showed her daughter pornography so she could point out how it was all fake and false.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.880
And it's like that that's a crazy world that we live in.
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:17.039
So I don't know what I don't know what would be a that I could say a green app, honestly.
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.920
I mean, even guys, the Bible app.
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.960
Like, you know that you can get to porn through the Bible app.
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.199
So every every app is a social media app.
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:36.960
So if you can add friends and you can add emails, then random people can create profiles and put bot links and things in the messaging that anybody can get to.
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.960
So again, now most kids don't know that, so they're not going to it.
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:48.800
But any app that's online is a social media platform on some way because anybody can access it and add you, and you can add them.
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:53.599
Holy cow.
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:55.280
All right.
00:42:56.320 --> 00:43:00.480
Um any all I keep thinking is definitely not YouTube.
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:12.000
Uh YouTube has within it algorithms to very quickly bring children or unfettered access to problematic material within four or five videos.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:16.079
Is it okay to post hot takes on college football?
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.599
That's all I really want to know.
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:18.800
If you're a Christian?
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:20.239
Okay, I'll stop then.
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.199
I'll stop then.
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:21.679
All right.
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:23.840
As long as you've posted about Jesus.
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:24.320
Yes.
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:34.159
If you can stand up and cheer for LSU, that's what I'm gonna cheering for, and scream your head off and throw your hat because they lost, but you can't raise your hands on Sunday to worship the Lord, you got a problem.
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.719
Okay.
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.519
Thanks for beating us earlier this um uh this year.
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:41.679
All right, let's see what else we got.
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:42.719
Throw another one up.
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:43.440
Sorry.
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:51.280
How do you address sources of anxiety when there are only a necessary part of a student's life?
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.079
Example, when the source of anxiety of a student's grades or school uh schoolwork.
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:57.840
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.679
I'll I'll jump in because I did that session.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:06.880
Um and here again I'd I point to something we did in that session is distinguish between stress and anxiety.
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:08.960
And those are two different things.
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:13.840
So stress is a normal part of everyday life, and stress can either be positive or negative.
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:15.840
It can be motivating or debilitating.
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:23.039
And so we have to help our young people reframe and say this is a normal and necessary part of life, but welcome to life.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:24.719
There are going to be stressful things.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:32.239
And so I want to help you bring it down from an anxiety and a fear to a stress and from distress to motivating stress.
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:35.360
And so how to help them kind of walk walk that down.
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:41.679
We cannot so insulate young people to think that there's never going to be stressors in life.
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.360
That's not preparing them well for adulthood or real living.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.639
So we have to help them frame it rightly and respond to it rightly and not get rid of it.
00:44:52.800 --> 00:45:00.639
We talked about this bullying a little bit, like somebody being mean to you and bumping into you or calling you a name and then falling apart, right?
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.480
Like and we want to go, man, that's sad.
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:06.000
I hate that they were mean to you, but your identity is not based on this one person.
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:10.079
But if that person does that every day for a month, that's a whole different story.
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:15.440
And so I think we have to help kids, you know, clarify on an individual basis what is going on for them.
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.320
Same thing with the word trauma or gaslighting or any of these terms we're using and throwing around.
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:28.800
For me, it always comes back to the relationship piece and the case-by-case basis of going, okay, why are why is this affecting you the way that it is?
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:31.039
Anything else.
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.719
Is this a real fear or a hypothetical fear?
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:45.360
And so there's sometimes fear is telling the truth.
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:47.199
You're in danger.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:46:03.679
And it's an alarm and it's an alert, and that learning how to respond to that the most God-honoring emotional response to a real threat is like God gave us that emotion to energize us to respond to it.
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.079
And what things are hypothetical.
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:15.840
And sometimes I think in discussions around this subject, people have their preferred side of the equation.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:23.360
There's some people who treat all fear as if it is real fear, and it should be responded to as if it's real.
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.599
And that tends to be alarmist.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:35.760
And then there's people who treat all fear as if it's hypothetical fear, and you're just not believing God to care for that thing that hasn't happened yet, and that can be dismissive.
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:46.800
And so differentiating fear from a real response, the person who says, I've got people calling my house and they're trying to foreclose on it because I'm in debt.
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.679
And the person who says, I'm just not sure I've saved for my kids' college fund yet.
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.199
One is real, I'm about to be foreclosed on.
00:46:55.360 --> 00:47:07.760
One is more in the hypothetical, future-oriented, knowing the difference between those things and even helping teenagers sort that laundry is part of the maturational development that is a way that we serve them.
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.679
And as adults who care about them, that is part of our role.
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:17.760
In what ways can Christian universities and seminaries focus on biblical counseling for pastors?
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.960
How can the students learn more themselves?
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:26.000
Yeah, two part.
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:26.719
I'll jump in.
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:41.920
Certainly, I think we have great degree programs, but some institutions don't have the ability to do that.
00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:48.320
Uh but even a class or a certificate or some sort of resource pointing them to Brad's website.
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.400
Um we we are part of a community of learning.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:56.239
Uh, and it is okay to rely on other people for portions of that.
00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:00.880
Um as far as students learning more themselves, I'll say what Clint said earlier.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:09.280
Uh we're gonna learn more about counseling by being counseled, watching others counsel than we will in any classroom.
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:17.840
And I tell my students this we want you watching other people counsel, we want you to be counseled because experientially that's how we're gonna make those connections.
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:22.000
Um you can get your own counseling, you can read on your own.
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:26.000
There are a ton of good resources out there about biblical counseling.
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:33.199
Uh you can do formal degree programs, you can do certificate programs, uh, you can attend conferences like this, you're doing that.
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.079
Hey, can I just um just stop for a second?
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.079
I want to ask a question, just a follow-up to that.
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:56.079
So the question I get sometimes is uh I want to go see a counselor, um I see the word biblical beside their name, I've gone and ex and had counseling from them, but I did not find that to be a truly biblical experience.
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:11.119
What like what is the litmus test for deciding who like if we're talking about we all need to have counseling in order to have experience and to be able to counsel others, then what is the litmus test for figuring out who is worth listening to and who is not?
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:17.199
I I think that is a question that I get a lot, and I don't really know what the answer is to that.
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:25.119
This might be a surprising answer, but I think we forget that we can interview our counselors before we engage their services.
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:25.679
Okay.
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:35.360
Uh so it's perfectly acceptable to have a conversation with them and say, tell me what your understanding is about people, their problems, the solution, sin, brokenness, God, the place of scripture.
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:36.880
We don't think about that.
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:38.639
Uh so that's one option.
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:45.760
Certainly how they talk about on their website or where their what their background is, uh what resources they're promoting.
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:46.559
Okay.
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:47.119
Certainly.
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:49.920
I think just an extension of that.
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:58.559
Um that while I consider myself a biblical counselor, I don't think I can provide good biblical counseling for everything.
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:03.519
Uh that I am the limiting agent.
00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:06.719
My experience, my training, my capacity.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:15.920
Uh, and so for somebody, sometimes it's that their counselor lacked character, lacked training.
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.599
Sometimes it was the counselor wasn't a good fit for their need.
00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:28.000
Uh and so, what is my need for which I am coming to get counseled biblically?
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:36.719
Um is that counselor good at it, whether they use their Bible or not?
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:50.239
Now, in terms of a context of Christian universities and seminaries, uh I think that one of the most powerful things that happens in counseling is the authentic dialogue.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.280
Authentic dialogue.
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.320
The honest, open conversation.
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:08.960
That um, you know, usually if you counsel for a while and then you're old enough that people come to you and they're like, I remember when I counseled with you X number of years ago.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:15.920
They're usually not remembering that really profound thing you said that changed their entire life.
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:21.519
There was that one sentence that just remade my world.
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:26.559
It's usually that relationship over time.
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:34.639
Like one counselor that I know uh did an experiment with several of his counselees, and this was just very telling.
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:39.840
Uh like he let them play in, he wasn't doing an experiment without them knowing, but he said, Here's what we're gonna do.
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.719
I guess they we're gonna say they met on Thursday.
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:44.480
He says, We're gonna meet on Thursday.
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:56.880
When we finish, on Tuesday, we're each going to write down, like email each other, what was the most significant thing that happened in that session the week before.
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:05.679
And so the counselee would write down this is what was most impactful, and the counselor would write down this is the most profound thing I think I said.
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:09.920
Um it never matched.
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:22.079
And that it was much more just having that place of an authentic and informed, it's not just authenticity, the informed of it, the content is not valueless.
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:34.400
But without that place where you feel a sense of trust and being known, it significantly devalues uh the impact of some of the content that does get shared.
00:52:34.559 --> 00:53:00.800
And so in a classroom, the teacher being authentic about their struggle, about how they came to where this was useful, areas of weakness that was shored up by what that modeling of honesty and an invitation where weakness is not abnormal amongst God's people is a huge part to all of this being far more attractive and normalized.
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:08.320
Yeah, I think the thing that separates biblical counseling from psychotherapy is community and scripture.
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:18.320
So it's really scary to me that we live in a world where we can keep everybody's secrets and their community never knows their secrets.
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:48.719
So I think moving forward in the next five to ten years, the goal for me as Christians who are wanting to do counseling or pastors who are looking at their job as shepherding is how do we take people's stories and their pains and their suffering and all these things that they want to heal from, and how do we help them join the community to walk alongside that and help with that instead of being this kind of uh we talked about it earlier, but like Catholic confessional, where we go to the therapist because we don't really want to tell our pastor, we don't want to tell our wife, we don't want to tell our friends.
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:50.159
We share this thing.
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:55.920
And if you're biblical, I think your goal would be who in your life can you go tell these things to?
00:53:56.079 --> 00:54:04.079
I'm not your f best friend, I'm not your pastor, and you need somebody as equally as equipped as me to help you at some point.
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:17.599
I am just here to bridge you to that community versus a psychotherapist who would say, My job is to just be completely private and never tell anybody anything, and I don't care whether you tell anybody anything or not, and that's gonna be isolated.
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:23.679
I think that's a key component to the difference between like whether you say you're a Christian who counsels.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:35.599
I mean, you've got the other problem of lots of people that have licenses who say they're Christian counselors who have no theology training and who aren't gonna talk to them about the deeper, richer things that you know she mentioned.
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.000
And so within your context, you've got to fight really hard to find the right people.
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:45.599
You've got to ask the right questions, you've got to email, you've got to call, you've got to say, okay, how do I advocate for this?
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:53.760
And then lastly, I truly believe that within this room, there are a lot more biblical counselors than you think there are.
00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:11.360
And I would challenge you that if you feel called and gifted to shepherd people, that you figure out how to get that training and get that education and partner with your church so they can somebody have somebody in their own community who's guiding them and loving them and encouraging the staff and encouraging the people.
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:15.679
And I just can't believe that there's so few people who are called to do that.
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:20.239
I just think that I wanted to be a pastor, but I didn't want to preach.
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:24.400
Like I wanted to shepherd people, but I didn't want to stand on a uh uh stage and talk.
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.199
I mean, I know we're doing that, but you know, God does what he wants.
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:32.239
But the reality is that man, there's just so many more of you guys who do this every day.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:33.920
You are counselors, right?
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:37.760
You are shepherds, you are pastors, and that's what we're getting to do.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.079
But we gotta work together.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:44.639
And I think that's the missing piece that I really want the church to get healthy in the next five to ten years.
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:46.559
How about one more question, Kathy?
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:48.239
All right, let's go.
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:54.320
Can we let's acknowledge our veterans?
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:55.760
There are veterans in the room.
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.320
Stand up.
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:58.159
Stand up if you are a veteran.
00:55:58.400 --> 00:55:58.800
Absolutely.
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:00.159
All right, there we go.
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:02.000
Yes, yes, yes.
00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:04.079
Thank you for your service.
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:05.199
Thank you for your service.
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:05.760
Absolutely.
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:06.719
We appreciate you guys.
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:09.440
There we go, that's right.
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:11.440
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:16.480
Well, listen, I think we've come to an end of our time here for Elephant in the Pew today.
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:19.519
Uh, I just want to thank everyone for your participation.
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:25.039
Listen, the the feedback and the response for this was greater than we could have ever imagined.
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:29.679
Um, and we are certainly going to plan and prepare for next year, for next year's Elephant in the Pew.
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:32.559
Uh, before we do that, though, want to do a few things.
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.480
Uh, number one, I just want to say thank you to First Baptist Church and Sage Moody.
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:39.119
Uh, thank you guys for opening up your spot to us.
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:40.960
We're so appreciative of that.
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:42.639
Super gracious.
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:47.840
Um, super thankful of North Greenville University for their worship team coming and leading us to worship today.
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:49.280
They were fantastic as well.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:58.480
And then, of course, let's make sure uh that we thank uh Daniel Kerr, who was the vision behind this, who is a student pastor at East Side Baptist in Spartanburg.
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:00.880
Very thankful for him speaking into that.
00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:04.880
And then, of course, I want to thank uh our leaders for today, all of our experts.
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:06.239
Uh Clint Davis, Dr.
00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:07.440
Kristen Kellen, Dr.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.480
Brad Hambrick, super thankful for your time here.
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:12.559
Um, we had a great experience.
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:14.639
Really appreciate all your wisdom.
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:16.320
Absolutely.
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.920
Um let's do this.
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.000
I'm gonna ask Charlie to come up here real quick.
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:26.559
Um, just got a couple other things I want to highlight as we're kind of wrapping up our time together.
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:28.639
Um quick commercials.
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:38.880
Uh, we're right in the middle of uh recruiting, hiring, and getting ready to train summer staffers for somersault and kids salt staff applications.
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:56.639
Um, if you have a high school senior or a college student that you think is ready to exercise their ministry muscles in a camp setting, we would love to have that conversation with you and show you a little bit about um how we can take them in ministry and use them for God's glory this upcoming summer.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:59.679
So if you're interested in that, please feel free to do that.
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:01.920
Um, would also like to say this.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:13.599
Um, we're already talking a little bit about what the conversation is gonna be for Elephant in the Pew next year, and we already have um kind of our uh direction of where we're gonna go with Elephant in the Pew.
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:25.920
It has become obvious to us that since uh COVID that we've had less teenagers, less children involved in missions.
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:28.880
There's been a fear of that.
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:32.559
There's been less push and desire to see that happen.
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:41.519
And so what we're gonna be talking about and tackling next year is how do we get children and teenagers on mission with the hope of the gospel?
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:44.559
How can we do that with all the challenges that we have?
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:54.320
And so I'm gonna be working with Charlie and Kathy, and we're gonna look a little, talk a little bit about how we can get at that as far as how we can get children and students on the mission field.
00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:58.960
Uh, but Charlie already has an idea of how we can go ahead and get that started.
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:02.159
So I've asked Charlie to come up here and share a little bit about SEGO.
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:09.119
Sure, and I do realize that I'm the last thing before they get up out of the most comfortable black chair you have ever sat in in your entire life.
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:11.519
Uh which I do want I would be remiss.
00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:15.679
He he said a bunch of thank yous to a bunch of them, but this wouldn't happen without Kathy and Brian.
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:19.280
Uh so let's uh let's give some thanks to them.
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:22.079
This is the largest elephant in the pew that has ever been.
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:22.719
Is that right?
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:24.719
So you guys have a lot to be proud of.
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:26.960
So thank you for your work uh in that.
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:33.119
Um so you guys received this card in your bags, and I and it and it has it has two QR codes to it.
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:36.960
So they are both different, and I want to make sure that you guys know what's going on with them.
00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:49.280
So I work for the convention in Next Gen Missions, and I would love to help you in any way that I can get your kids outside of the walls, outside on mission to the nations uh to be involved in ministry everywhere.
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:56.320
On the front, on one side of the card, uh, so in April, uh we're putting on a one-day training session.
00:59:56.480 --> 01:00:06.000
If you are taking your students 6th to 12th grade, if you're taking them anywhere on mission in 2025, we have a one-day training for them.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:12.800
So, what we'd want for you is to bring your team if you're going to Uganda or whether you're going to Myrtle Beach, it doesn't matter.
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:18.639
We would love for you to bring your mission team anywhere between sixth and twelfth grade uh to this mission training.
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:19.679
It's only 15 bucks.
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:24.639
We provide provide lunch, lots of great breakouts for your students directly and your leaders.
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:26.719
So we'd love to for you to take part in that.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:30.159
So that's the blue side of the card there with that QR code.
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:33.119
Uh 15 bucks includes a bunch of swag and lunch.
01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:34.320
We'd love for you guys to be there.
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:37.360
It's in the uh in the Columbia area.
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:41.440
On the other side of the card, there's a brand new initiative that we're launching today.
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:53.519
Uh, because here's the deal over 90% of our IMB missionaries say that the reason why God ignited their heart for missions overseas is because they went on a short-term mission trip.
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:54.880
Let me say it one more time.
01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:04.000
Over 90% of our IMB missionaries say that God ignited their heart for missions while they were on a short-term mission trip and mostly when they were students.
01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:08.239
And so it's incredibly important that you guys get your get your students out on mission.
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:09.199
So here's the deal.
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:14.480
I know that there's a lot of churches out there that they don't have capacity to bring their kids on a mission.
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:18.079
And so it's my job to make sure that that's possible.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:27.519
So there's churches that do go on mission trips that they are allowing uh you to send your students through them through the collaboration of our uh of our convention.
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:33.599
So basically, student ministers are opening up spots for at-large students from anywhere in our state to go with them.
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:39.519
And so the convention is kind of functioning like match.com or Tinder, um, which I know that that's like a red app.
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:40.800
It's a red app.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:41.119
I get it.
01:01:41.920 --> 01:01:47.119
But I can I can guarantee you that the SC Baptist website is not red, okay?
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:48.960
I I I can guarantee it, okay?
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:57.199
So on our website, there's several trips listed, and your students can sign up for those trips and go with other churches just like they would be going with you.
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:58.079
Does that make sense?
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:07.039
And so on where it says SC Go Network, uh, I'd love and you guys can check that out too because you can join that same network and allow kids to go with you as well if you're going on a mission trip.
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:11.760
So anyway, if if you have any questions about missions and student missions, I would love to talk with you after the day.
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.000
Yeah, just want to say love what Charlie's doing.
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:21.519
I think it um his vision for seeing students um on the mission field, children, teenagers, I just think is great.
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:24.880
I think we something that is worthy, uh worth being involved with.
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:27.519
So uh would like to encourage you to check that out for sure.
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:31.760
So, anyway, listen, we have come to the end of Elephant the Pew.
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.840
We are so grateful for your engagement, your participation in this.
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.280
It has been a great day.
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:43.519
I know a lot of y'all have got uh maybe a trip home, uh, but if you're sticking around, you're gonna be at the annual meeting.
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:47.840
We can't wait to see you at the annual meeting so we can celebrate what God has done this past year.
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:48.719
Thank you so much.
01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:50.079
God bless, we'll see you later.
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:51.199
Thanks so much.
01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:59.760
Thanks for listening to the SE Baptist Podcast.
01:02:59.920 --> 01:03:07.280
This SC Baptist resource is made possible through the cooperative program giving of South Carolina Baptist Churches.
