Access Control Beyond the Door: The Intelligence Era with Lee Odess

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the security equation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Today, I have distinguished guest Lee Odes, who is CEO of the Access Control Collective, which I can't wait to learn more about what that really means.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a lot of visions of Access Control Lee, but I know it's a much brighter scale, but welcome to the show, and thank you for joining us today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I appreciate it, Dan, I have a miss, so thank you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go back before we get into the industry topics,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Where'd you grow up when did you know you're going to be in some field related to security or what did you want to be when you grew up what was your what was your vision professional football player or.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not for half, but it's like born and cleave and grew up in South Florida actually, not far from where you are.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, but I graduated high school at a Pittsburgh, but we moved around a good bit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And my thoughts around what I wanted to be, honestly, I just wanted to get out of school.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew I was going to be in sales.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I took a job out of sales with a company called Lutron Electronics.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So building products.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I, I think I was destined to just get in the sales.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to play football, um, I went to UCF to do so.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I ended up walking on there and deciding it wasn't for me and, um, at that point, just started focusing on school and then getting out of school.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, for the security standpoint,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Realistically, you didn't get into it until I was here in the Bethesda, Maryland area where I live and wanted to get back into the manufacturing side.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot of manufacturing here, but a friend of Monica Collig, when my wife and I sold her business, said, hey, you should check out this company called Brevo, which happens to be an access control.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to the CEO, got involved there, and that's what got me into security.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was sort of, I'm not in it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Before that, it was more electrical,
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[SPEAKER_00]: more of the sort of lighting control industry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the nobody goes to college and says, I want to be in sales.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's no sales degree in college.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But the most successful people have come through, you know, that they figured out sales and commissions and bonus plans is a great life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How did you determine that you were going to be in sales?
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[SPEAKER_00]: My dad was in sales and I don't know again.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I go back to I didn't really know what I wanted to do But I do I got a general business degree from University Central Florida, which was sort of like I think they should have called it you don't know what you want to do But you're want to be in some sort of business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you take a whole bunch of classes That were business related
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I honestly interviewed from Lutron in my junior year.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So my entire senior year, I knew I was going to be in sales at their company.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think what I wanted more than anything else, and it's, you know, an interesting sort of self-reflection.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I knew I wanted to make money.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't grow up with a lot of money, and I knew I wanted to.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a maybe a high level of confidence in myself of being able to
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[SPEAKER_00]: sell something and I didn't have necessarily a specific discipline like accounting or marketing or medical or whatever it might be and sales was like it's a degree or a job that's like you bet on you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the closest thing in my opinion, two sports, which is it just me against whatever and my job is to to sell you whatever it is that I'm selling and you buy whatever I'm selling and and then I make money so it's somewhat transactional in that there's not like I didn't see it creatively I saw it as the quickest way for me to to start making money frankly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty particular, a particular saying in your sales career like, you know, one of my favorites is the second best answer you can get is no, like don't don't string me along.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any any any any favorites?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so two, one of them, the both of them are for my father.
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[SPEAKER_00]: One is surround the job, which is the concept and idea if you want to go sell something to an individual, a company whatever might be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the people that surround them, and if they're all bought into you and also referring you, and when that person goes out, says, hey, I'm looking at this, should I do that, or whatever it might be, if they all are sort of voting for you, it's pretty hard to lose
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, I'm taking that into what I do currently now with everything that we've done since I've been in in sales and I still look at myself and sales and marketing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is sort of based around community and the concept of an idea about surrounding yourself with a bunch of people and you know good things happen when you typically do that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last one is, this is not a hobby, and that's just saying my father would always talk about, you know, when people would say things like, good job or how'd you do that or, you know, one of the, you always was like, that's, this isn't a hobby, like, this is, this is my job, like, and we grew up, I don't remember a time of not hearing that from him, and so that's been always sort of the,
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[SPEAKER_00]: the mantra around our house is, this is not a hobby.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when people are like, oh, how did you get that done?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what do you think I was gonna do?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right, no, I'm truly a professional.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't, I'm not doing this for fun.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this isn't just games.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like we, I take, I'm a serious person, serious things happen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like that was the attitude that my father had grown up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, there's, there's parts where that bite you, but in all in all, it's played out okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love it because we've just I've been in this business for 30 some years and I've never had truly a sales team right because we're subject matter experts and so it's more the relationships that grows revenue.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the stuff we do is, it's hard to bring so many in from the outside and sell the consulting service that we provide.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Nonetheless, here we are, we're six and a half years into these companies and I've invested in a growth officer and we have a sales team and I just met with them yesterday.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So now it's going to be great to find out how many of them actually listen to my podcast because I better here one of those two things when I'm on the next call with them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I did that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll find out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I did this one store, IT director, and I had a guy on specific decipher, and I said, I'll find out if Joel listens to my podcast, because he's going to fix this problem that I just shared with the cyber guy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Did he do it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, and then I called him out on it like a month later and he felt so bad, he sent me multiple messages to let me know I actually listened to that episode, but I was in the car and I didn't get to that particular segment of the episode, so he felt terrible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So my sales team, you know, the targets on your back now, you know, exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So you end up in in the access control collective.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What is that to tell me more?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So the access control collective is a collection of companies that serve initially the access control industry.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's broad and since then, and to just the security industry, physical security industry as the market has shifted in change.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It actually is an evolution that tracks what's happening in our industry now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's broken up in the three areas.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's broken up into community that I talked about, so I've been online community and an offline community of people within the industry globally.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That have an app that people talk.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We do shows and they show up to them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We go to shows and they're there So think of it as part of something and usually with that part of something is is people that see the Today and tomorrow of our industry being very different than yesterday and whatever that might be So that's the community we create content not only our own content that we put out But we also create content for other people
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[SPEAKER_00]: Or we just create content in general that are underwritten or is in partnership with people and it primarily YouTube and LinkedIn is where heavily focused majority of our content creation around LinkedIn and gone deep there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last one being consulting so we do consulting work for a wide variety of people from integrators and users manufacturers whatever might be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we sometimes look at ourselves as sort of a modern digital media company that you see a lot of other people that are in the market.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Outside of our industry, this is very normal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Inside of our industry, it's something new and different.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But that's that company.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I say, we have a business partner.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Hillary, she did it with me for years doing this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So our second iteration, we sold the first one in 2022 and then sat out for about 10 months and then came back and said, let's do this again now that the market's open.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we could travel.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we've done that and we've refined a lot of things and it's, yeah, we have a good time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting because when I first read about it,
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[SPEAKER_01]: My brain initially went to technical access control.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I've been involved in the design from many stadiums and arenas.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so whether it's a milestone and a vigilante on a genotech system and then access control and card readers and all that stuff, we were very involved in the design side and integrating campus and all that stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I know this subject because it's that and then I read more about what you're doing and I'm like, no, this is much broader because, you know, now with our companies, we talk about physical access control all the time with our clients, right, where's our perimeter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Our screening at that perimeter, and then what is that that widget that says we is allowed to come into this perimeter, a credential, a ticket, whatever that is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, so, and there's technologies being deployed for that to streamline that access control to that's much different than a door on a building.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the evolution and change.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when we look at it, if you go back, the electronic access control started in 1973 and from 1973 to roughly about 2020 when COVID happened, the expectations of how those systems work were always the same, blocking unlocked door keep bad people out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: we've done a very good job of that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we've been asked to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a cottage industry of about 10 billion, 12 billion, depending on who you talk to.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a pretty well-defined understanding.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it is fairly technical, marketing and storytelling.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have to do that stuff because it was sort of like, do you want to lock it on lock a dorky, be-pat people out?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the systems.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now there's differences, we're out in the world, there's components like all that's up, but realistically it's it's somewhat straightforward.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's trends that were happening before him, but it got accelerated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And this idea now that it was about letting the right people in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was the need for cloud-based systems to actually deliver value, SaaS.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And what happened was it shifted from being about the door and control in the door to now being about the person.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then yeah, I still want to lock it on lock a door, keep back people up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to let the right people in now order the operational efficiencies.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want the system to do more so that utility plus.
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[SPEAKER_00]: of what that would be and we put math behind it and said, hey, that difference between keeping bad people out and actually delivering value beyond that is about 70 billion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I talk about beyond that is like I bet you it's even bigger as we start to verticalize and our systems start to get into other things and now we're starting to see people deliver and you know more AI into the system and the way they work and sort of automation workflows and it redefines in a lot of ways that cottage industry into a mainstream one and because of that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a need for us to tell different stories and to have conversations about value creation that integrator looks very different.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The end user's expectations change.
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[SPEAKER_00]: IT convergence happens like all of these things that are happening.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it is still, I talk heavily about readers and controllers and wire and all that good fun stuff that we are industry against all.
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[SPEAKER_00]: crazy about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it also now is like the application and all the other stuff that is needed to capture that value creation that is there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't mean one is bad or good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean this is the end of conversation about both.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I just choose to spend my time talking about where things are going versus where they've been.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have an appreciation for where they've been, but that doesn't hold me back to my belief of where things are going.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So where's it going?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, we deal with stadiums or corporate clients, where their headquarters are completely different topics, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: At a corporate headquarters, they're looking at tailgating and they're putting in lobby controls and then badge access on their floors and their spaces.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now we talk about the risks to the sea suite,
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[SPEAKER_01]: and we see what happened at 350 park Avenue with the shooter that gets that access and elevators.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So where is it going?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's still that, which is an important part to understand that that's not changing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Where it's going in addition to that is, and I've been trying to think about this, I've recently written a piece called Welcome to the Intelligence Era.
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[SPEAKER_00]: the expectations of what we do with our systems, the data that comes off of it, the automation that happens, the ability for us to respond to those things differently than they had before.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like as you think about the one in New York City that you talked about, it showed a failure of how our systems have worked in the past, so where they're not as dynamic as they probably need to be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, where we believe it's going, a lot of places.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, verticalizing, like you talked about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Historically, if you think about it, that same system that you used for that stadium was probably the same system used for an airport also.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You just use less of it or slightly different, but theoretically,
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[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of it was the same thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You just, sure, applied it horizontally, instead of looking at it vertically, and our industry was okay with it, because it was about controlling doors, and like it wasn't necessarily about having deep expertise if you would in two things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Not only, like when we talk about keeping bad people out, yeah, I get it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So like, how did you high levels of assurance?
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[SPEAKER_00]: But in other applications, like in the stadiums of that, I need high levels of throughput, and I need an experience to be delivered that
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[SPEAKER_00]: We no longer celebrate when somebody's supposed to be there and they can't get in like, oh, well, at least I didn't get in right like, no, that's a bad experience like right and it's no longer okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to be able to do two things at once, which is like we're going to keep back people out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to let the right people in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to deliver a good experience to the people that are supposed to be there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And for the people that aren't, we're going to give them a good experience to we know that they shouldn't be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And if they're bad actors, we're not going to give them a good experience.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to keep them out type thing and then notify and do all the things that you've done that you want to do it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's deep verticalization.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It is complex.
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[SPEAKER_00]: security, as well as experience.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's revenue generation opportunities too, because the data that's coming off, if I know like people are queuing at a certain part of an arena, it's not only is at bad, it's good, but because like I now know people are there, I can roll another beer card over or whatever to them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I can solve two things at once, take care of the people that are
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[SPEAKER_00]: you let bring down the level of risk that's associated to it by spreading out the groups, whatever it might be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like those are the dynamic needs that you have per vertical to be able to deliver the use case, which leads me to the big thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking more like an enterprise software industry where it's about solution-based selling.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's no longer like I've got this thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to apply it to you whether you want it or not because you have no not a lot of choices other than this maybe change the color of it now it is what do you need and whether it's modality choices system functionality of how you want it is very more it's a lot more complex and it's I think.
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[SPEAKER_00]: no better time than now to be in our industry, because you can define it however you want, not necessarily based off a 30-year-old stuff, but based off of learnings from that, but then now applying it to where things are going.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's no better time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I got so many questions that need from what you just mentioned.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So let me start with the lowest common denominator in all this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I got nine best in these systems and I invest in the future.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The 350 park Avenue tragedy still had a lot to do with a human to push a button to stop that elevator from going up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to know that because I know some of the people that were involved in that building and from afterwards.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How do we minimize the human factor in all of these systems?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Our clients are spending what they probably should be for the humans that are supposed to be operating the systems.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think a couple of things are going to happen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A, there are now middleware companies and platforms that can sit on top to deliver more automation, more intelligence, more readiness, if you would, around that to assist in the functioning of the building, assist in the people to make them,
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[SPEAKER_00]: better at whatever they're looking to do or whatever needs it on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A good example is, if you think most of those access control systems that you had, and if you think about that instance and I'm not an expert in this instance, but I could imagine based off of just behaviors that are normal, there was probably signs before the person got to the elevator when the button needed repressed, that probably should have been shut off by that, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So,
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[SPEAKER_00]: one of the things that are happening now is the definition of access control and security is moving like you said to the perimeter in beyond and there's also a human aspect of this that can be tied into it where there are markers that probably led to a risk level that was increased that would have hit some policy somewhere.
19:29.222 --> 19:38.885
[SPEAKER_00]: that would have told the system to act a certain way, or give even more levels of exposure to data points to help that person make the decision.
19:39.545 --> 19:52.490
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are systems that exist, and it's not as expensive as people might think, because in a lot of cases, what I do here on that is, is that based off of what they have and what they know, they define the expense side.
19:52.870 --> 19:58.412
[SPEAKER_00]: But like I said, there are now systems, and now this isn't true for everybody.
19:59.072 --> 20:03.500
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have, uh, I call it four types of people in our industry and it's, it's, it's.
20:04.463 --> 20:06.884
[SPEAKER_00]: It's simple and it's simple and person not purpose.
20:07.044 --> 20:07.865
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got the nevers.
20:08.645 --> 20:32.477
[SPEAKER_00]: So these are the people and the systems that are like it's never going to happen never going to do it never going to happen fine that exists heavily in our industry and if you're like why you're like safety or because it's expensive or whatever the reasons are because maybe they're tired and they thought they'd be retired by now I don't know or also we don't like maybe they're not incentivized to do anything different fine right never's then there's the babies which are like yeah
20:33.259 --> 20:42.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably, I don't know, I can't convince my boss or whatever, or at least they're like, yeah, they're not stubborn, but they maybe they're not moving.
20:42.664 --> 20:46.626
[SPEAKER_00]: Then there's the yesss, and those are the people that are among board.
20:47.407 --> 21:00.214
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to know more, or somebody hasn't reached out yet, or I don't know who to talk to, or whatever, but they're in that direction, and they're, I just met a small retailer that has 500 locations
21:01.174 --> 21:05.917
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're in the RFP process, so there are yes, like they're they're doing exactly what we're talking about.
21:06.257 --> 21:12.981
[SPEAKER_00]: Then there's the already there's and these are the people that are like, yeah, of course I'm using AI, of course I'm doing this, of course I'm doing that.
21:13.301 --> 21:15.062
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have budget issues like all that stuff.
21:15.522 --> 21:24.467
[SPEAKER_00]: So in some cases, we oversimplify binary like they're either not doing it or they are doing it, but in frankly, I think there's those four types.
21:29.570 --> 21:43.997
[SPEAKER_00]: to deliver some levels of functionality that have historically maybe been in the never bucket, that are either in the maybe's in the yes's bucket now, and it takes a different level of curiosity to an open-mindedness, in my opinion, to go find that.
21:44.798 --> 21:44.978
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
21:46.112 --> 21:50.894
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I'm trying to do more than anything is that I'm so tired of our industry.
21:51.014 --> 22:13.781
[SPEAKER_00]: I go to all these other shows in our industry and you're all the same people to get up there who self identify as the people, the experts because they've been doing this for a very long time and they've got the credentials and the three letter acronyms on their badge to tell you and they'll tell you 100% all the reasons why you can't and most of it comes down to a self identity crisis, not a technical reason.
22:14.468 --> 22:30.785
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I want to tell the stories that move people from that are those people that are we've always done it this way, are they in the never bucket or they in the in the in the in the in the in another bucket because because we're going to add to like no we've always done it that way we don't know we're not going to change it.
22:31.306 --> 22:34.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there are plenty of those yes, I do believe though.
22:35.603 --> 22:42.886
[SPEAKER_00]: There are many of them that are actually in the yes, but they act like a never, because they have been seen as the experts.
22:42.906 --> 22:45.887
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're entire self identity is about keeping people safe.
22:46.487 --> 22:52.069
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have some kid that comes in that's like, AI, AI, AI, and they're like, no.
22:52.489 --> 22:53.710
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say I saw it with mobile.
22:53.730 --> 22:54.310
[SPEAKER_00]: Great examples.
22:54.330 --> 23:01.832
[SPEAKER_00]: From mobile first came out, long list of these experts in our industry that said, never, that all of a sudden have religion.
23:02.433 --> 23:02.673
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:04.008 --> 23:10.074
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think some of that comes down to the fact that they weren't comfortable because they didn't know.
23:10.514 --> 23:12.276
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's quickly easy to say no.
23:12.957 --> 23:19.883
[SPEAKER_00]: When if they really embraced it and sat down and thought about it, it doesn't mean just, you know, whole hog into everything.
23:19.903 --> 23:22.646
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the other one out here is like, I'll get, I'll get, you know,
23:23.987 --> 23:47.338
[SPEAKER_00]: painted that I am telling everyone to just go do everything right like no at some somewhere between not every new truths a good truth either just like not every old truths a bad truth somewhere between old truths and new truths together is where the reality is it's just those those people that act as never just like you need to give me a hug.
23:50.352 --> 23:51.533
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be okay.
23:52.173 --> 23:56.075
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you brought up mobile and it I think you said you're glad I brought up hugging, but yeah.
23:56.115 --> 23:57.315
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:58.536 --> 24:05.459
[SPEAKER_01]: So we we were working on an arena NBA and access control to the players garage.
24:06.100 --> 24:06.300
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
24:07.000 --> 24:12.883
[SPEAKER_01]: And the the integrator, the client was the team, you know, and I'm sitting in the middle and
24:14.900 --> 24:20.586
[SPEAKER_01]: Stumped on how we're going to make sure only the players vehicle gets in the grudge.
24:21.046 --> 24:22.608
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's all sorts of technologies, right?
24:22.808 --> 24:28.473
[SPEAKER_01]: Plate reader, this fast, this mobile was the answer.
24:29.534 --> 24:37.002
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's only one common denominator with this persona, a player, they got multiple cars.
24:39.050 --> 24:44.854
[SPEAKER_01]: wife could have the car with the pass in it, girlfriend could have it, whatever, the one constant was the phone.
24:45.314 --> 24:48.797
[SPEAKER_01]: The phone was always with the individual, didn't matter what car they were in.
24:48.817 --> 24:51.178
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was pretty eagerly in the mobile.
24:51.198 --> 24:53.400
[SPEAKER_01]: This would be price 6, 7, 8 years ago.
24:54.681 --> 25:01.065
[SPEAKER_01]: And we got the, we got, we got the owner to buy off on this being the solution and it worked fantastic.
25:02.003 --> 25:06.429
[SPEAKER_01]: But to your point, it's not good for the whole organization at that time.
25:07.170 --> 25:12.876
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need it for every door, for every employee to go mobile because there was a cost to it then.
25:12.896 --> 25:16.401
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the cost is now for mobile versus physical cards.
25:16.941 --> 25:19.064
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great application in that scenario.
25:19.685 --> 25:24.487
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's a good example of historically binary decision of the credential type that you used.
25:24.987 --> 25:32.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And the security department said, we use these cards, and they have these pictures on it, whatever it might be, and we're gonna give the badges to everybody.
25:32.650 --> 25:35.892
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't have a badge, you're gonna use the visitor management system that we have, right?
25:36.532 --> 25:36.893
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
25:37.633 --> 25:43.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what you're talking about is you have a modality choice based off the experience that you want to deliver.
25:44.101 --> 25:45.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it's still as card.
25:45.943 --> 25:48.826
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it's still a visitor management system, what you're talking about here is mobile.
25:49.167 --> 25:52.290
[SPEAKER_00]: I guarantee you there's an application for biometrics that makes sense there.
25:53.351 --> 25:56.775
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all of those different, I'm sure there's some areas where they're still using keys.
25:57.336 --> 26:03.842
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there is a motel choice, yes, I know, but there be a guy and I'm not advocating for him.
26:03.862 --> 26:11.530
[SPEAKER_00]: I just like, you know, those things have been around for hundreds of years and I will be dead and retired or both by the time they're gone.
26:11.630 --> 26:13.332
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, all right, what do we get to do with them?
26:13.812 --> 26:14.793
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we manage them?
26:16.235 --> 26:17.856
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do we make them part of?
26:18.879 --> 26:30.648
[SPEAKER_00]: the modality choice and understand the positives and negatives, but we're not going to go into it basically saying, no, it has to be cards and you're like, why, and it'll be like, we're the security department.
26:32.135 --> 26:34.696
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want the risk and they're like, now I'm okay.
26:34.716 --> 26:35.477
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to the risk.
26:35.517 --> 26:35.717
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
26:36.317 --> 26:36.877
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
26:36.957 --> 26:40.039
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they'll say something like, did anyone get shot or stabbed right lately?
26:40.059 --> 26:41.339
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, no, like, fine.
26:41.379 --> 26:42.200
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm the expert.
26:42.220 --> 26:42.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Leave me alone.
26:43.120 --> 26:47.882
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's like how we've been doing things and realistically, that's not how it's moving forward.
26:48.403 --> 26:55.126
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad you brought up by a metric because in this same project team and player to be unnamed.
26:57.020 --> 27:01.621
[SPEAKER_01]: we deployed biometric for the locker room, because same scenario, right?
27:02.281 --> 27:12.043
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we've got players going from court to locker room, locker room to trainings, and so how do you lock down the locker room, they're not carrying a phone, they're not going to wear a credential, et cetera.
27:14.123 --> 27:17.544
[SPEAKER_01]: So we go to biometric, really simple biometric, right?
27:17.604 --> 27:21.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it looks like an iPhone on the wall, you just look at it, it opens the door.
27:26.750 --> 27:28.231
[SPEAKER_01]: has made a lot of noise in the league.
27:29.853 --> 27:37.279
[SPEAKER_01]: When we went to implement it, the VP of Security said, Dan, this player will not register with the system.
27:39.261 --> 27:40.823
[SPEAKER_01]: Afraid that it's going to scramble his brain.
27:43.345 --> 27:44.646
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're like, wait, what?
27:45.347 --> 27:48.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's working for this particular player would not.
27:49.423 --> 28:00.693
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they made him carry a card for a few months until he finally bought into the fact that it wasn't in a scrambles brain, but these, these are just odd ball stories of different, you know, solutions that have been put in place.
28:01.353 --> 28:03.815
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know what to do with that one.
28:05.397 --> 28:07.038
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's what I'll say to that.
28:07.959 --> 28:13.324
[SPEAKER_00]: I do this is a good, actually, it's, it's, it's, it's a little out there from this, but I think you relate.
28:14.188 --> 28:24.050
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe our industry is on a horrific job of delivering value creation stories, to where educating people around the positive side of these technologies.
28:24.491 --> 28:29.212
[SPEAKER_00]: What we do is a technical one, we're like our answer to him would be like, but we only do 42 parts of your face.
28:29.252 --> 28:30.012
[SPEAKER_00]: Not 36, right?
28:30.052 --> 28:30.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:30.232 --> 28:34.373
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I don't even know what that means, but we give him a technical answer.
28:34.945 --> 28:41.528
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but when you look at sort of the dystopian side of the world, anything that is considered bad is viral.
28:41.888 --> 28:42.568
[SPEAKER_00]: And it goes.
28:43.148 --> 28:49.191
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but we again, because we just don't value the the positive stories that help.
28:50.391 --> 28:56.395
[SPEAKER_00]: educate and, you know, can be the counterweight, you know, not saying there isn't bad.
28:56.435 --> 29:00.097
[SPEAKER_00]: There is, like the bad actors everywhere that do bad things and stupid things.
29:00.778 --> 29:05.520
[SPEAKER_00]: But we need to do a better job as an industry of telling the value.
29:05.821 --> 29:08.863
[SPEAKER_00]: And it goes back to also your question around how I got into the industry.
29:08.883 --> 29:12.365
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, let me ask you, did you, did you seek out to be in security?
29:13.465 --> 29:13.665
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
29:14.145 --> 29:14.345
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
29:14.565 --> 29:16.306
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone in our industry falls into it.
29:16.726 --> 29:22.288
[SPEAKER_00]: We all laugh about it, but show me another industry that delivers the value that we do.
29:23.028 --> 29:23.248
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
29:24.008 --> 29:26.809
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a reason why the stickiness of it.
29:26.829 --> 29:27.669
[SPEAKER_00]: We all get into it.
29:28.289 --> 29:34.451
[SPEAKER_00]: The value we deliver, the ability to make money, the, you know, all of the goodness that we have.
29:35.131 --> 29:37.492
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't tell people about it at all.
29:37.532 --> 29:38.672
[SPEAKER_00]: And we allow the market
29:44.443 --> 30:06.488
[SPEAKER_00]: Or smaller, you know, or we're or we're spying on everybody because we want videos to be all bad, all bad and we need to do a better job in my opinion of telling our own story so that, you know, when someone's like it's going to scream on my brain now, you know, people are going to believe whatever they want, right, but at least we can do a better job of telling value creation stories.
30:07.488 --> 30:15.958
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's go back to the technologies, one of the complaints that I see quite often and more so from the manufacturer side.
30:17.240 --> 30:25.410
[SPEAKER_01]: But I see it with clients of ours is, we can deploy this technology, it does all of these things, whatever they are, right?
30:28.170 --> 30:39.734
[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest challenge is making sure you have someone on your team that knows how to utilize the system to take advantage of all of those features and things that the system can do.
30:40.234 --> 30:54.799
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I talk to manufacturers, they're like, you know, pull what percent of your client base are using greater than 10 percent of the functionality of your system and it's like very low.
30:58.450 --> 31:02.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Either we're manufacturing too much complexity, which I don't think is the case.
31:04.333 --> 31:13.879
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we educate the end users to say, you signed up, you wanted all of this technology, you wanted all this capability, but you're using 10% of what you purchased.
31:14.522 --> 31:29.305
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, see, I would tell you, I think our systems were built to only be utilized 10% because, again, most of these systems that you're using were built for zero verticals or maybe they were built for an airport and then they were brought into verticals.
31:29.325 --> 31:40.727
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't necessarily built for, so they're actually built to just be used a small percentage because unless you're an airport like, why do I need, you know, these, this functionality, right?
31:45.089 --> 31:57.078
[SPEAKER_00]: an integrator whose job was to then apply it and call me when you need me if something goes wrong or you want to add a card or a user or whatever.
31:58.279 --> 32:12.610
[SPEAKER_00]: So now I have a manufacturer disconnect from an end user community so I actually don't know what I'm building this for and I'll only person I'm talking to is really an integrator who's telling me what an end user needs but isn't necessarily really in that business
32:13.871 --> 32:19.334
[SPEAKER_00]: they are, you know, doing sort of like specification bitwork if you would have like I need this feature.
32:19.374 --> 32:29.960
[SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm creating Frankenstein of a system to serve an application specific for one person hoping it works other places and like right so like you do that.
32:30.040 --> 32:43.307
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what I think is going to start happening is this is where AI and some of the natural language processing and a lot of what you see coming in the market is where well and on top of it
32:44.189 --> 32:58.683
[SPEAKER_00]: I think now that systems are going to start verticalizing and the expectation of the end user is that I actually use 90% of my system or 100 plus because I'm using it in other areas and the value needs to be greater than just the security end of it.
32:59.263 --> 33:00.765
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe a combination of,
33:02.758 --> 33:08.440
[SPEAKER_00]: AI helping configure systems properly like this idea that I'm going to go in with the system.
33:08.601 --> 33:15.924
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be zero and I'm going to sit on a bucket down in a basement and I'm going to program it to 10%.
33:17.444 --> 33:21.786
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're going to tweak it a little bit here and there and then we're going to be like, don't touch it.
33:24.115 --> 33:28.660
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think as systems become more cloud-based like they are, think about like cars.
33:29.461 --> 33:36.109
[SPEAKER_00]: Historically over time, you bought a car, depreciating value, you know, went down because of wear and tear.
33:36.129 --> 33:42.596
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think of our systems, the best day they ever had was the day they were installed and they decline over time because.
33:43.837 --> 33:52.949
[SPEAKER_00]: System do they just add more to it changes happen, but it's, you know, Tom retires, who knows how to use it.
33:53.009 --> 33:54.651
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, just don't touch you.
33:54.671 --> 34:00.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right now, though, there attaches system upgrades things like that, just like Tesla's.
34:01.825 --> 34:04.186
[SPEAKER_00]: The best day of a Tesla is in the future.
34:04.846 --> 34:05.086
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:05.807 --> 34:07.207
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how our systems are changing.
34:07.227 --> 34:11.089
[SPEAKER_00]: To where now, the best day of all of these systems should be is the future.
34:11.729 --> 34:18.893
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I can start by applying technology to it to say, how do I get the highest performance out of this?
34:18.953 --> 34:19.513
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm this and that.
34:19.833 --> 34:28.117
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like a huge data set out that it doesn't have a fork because every one of these systems that have been sold have been client surveyed systems that manufacturers don't even know or they're being deployed.
34:28.237 --> 34:30.518
[SPEAKER_00]: Let alone do I know how they're using them, right?
34:31.848 --> 34:50.204
[SPEAKER_00]: And then now they're all attached, I can look at data and I can make these systems get better over time based off of how people are using it or go to you and say, hey, you're a stadium, you know, 99% of the standards we work with do it this way, you are in, is this something you would like to do, like it can do that.
34:50.914 --> 34:51.034
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
34:51.054 --> 35:16.330
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I believe we have a more educated and user base that is interacting more with manufacturers and you have an integrator base that is doing more Consultative selling and box selling and you put all that together and I think what you're going to start to see is a better adoption of our systems delivering more value.
35:17.980 --> 35:27.887
[SPEAKER_00]: as time goes on, then it has currently been doing historically, and that's where I tell and users when I talk to them, stadiums, whoever that I've worked with, and I've said basically
35:29.398 --> 35:31.859
[SPEAKER_00]: change the expectations that you have.
35:32.299 --> 35:37.040
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, almost like take that men in black stick and like, you know, like, do it to your face.
35:37.400 --> 35:37.620
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
35:37.640 --> 35:41.541
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, don't forget everything, you know, you just like short-term memories, Con.
35:42.341 --> 35:44.162
[SPEAKER_00]: And say, how do we want to do this now?
35:44.342 --> 35:48.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because the answer is yes, at this point, where historically it's been no.
35:49.864 --> 35:52.224
[SPEAKER_01]: That you bring up great points.
35:52.544 --> 35:56.785
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, time retiring
35:59.973 --> 36:01.073
[SPEAKER_01]: or that key person leaves.
36:01.874 --> 36:21.360
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I kind of looked at this five, six years ago and said, as the consultant, I was at fault because I wasn't informing the security team or the client team and saying, you have to have a security technology person on your team.
36:21.760 --> 36:25.942
[SPEAKER_01]: We're investing in all of this technology when we build you this new building.
36:26.936 --> 36:33.461
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got all physical security experts that are running the building, crowd management, whatever it happens to be.
36:34.081 --> 36:38.444
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't anybody that really understood the technology that got put in.
36:38.464 --> 36:53.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the integrators have done a very good job historically to help their clients to really take advantage of the technologies because they're box selling, they're not solution selling, but hopefully that does change,
36:58.006 --> 37:06.651
[SPEAKER_01]: features and enhancements that could help a team do a better job, a security team do a better job in their in their in their site security.
37:07.272 --> 37:11.434
[SPEAKER_01]: If they deploy and if they really truly understand the technology, it's at their fingertips.
37:12.034 --> 37:13.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think a couple things.
37:13.815 --> 37:19.439
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is no different than any industry in my opinion, so like I don't
37:20.630 --> 37:24.372
[SPEAKER_00]: I think any industry going to where there's technology being applied, everyone can do better.
37:24.432 --> 37:31.056
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the Spider-Man meme, like literally, like I think everyone's to blame, like all of that is there.
37:31.876 --> 37:37.159
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're in a better position, because there are good examples, also like that we can share.
37:37.659 --> 37:43.002
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think we're the better position now, and as technology gets applied, like if you think about it, like,
37:44.446 --> 37:48.051
[SPEAKER_00]: information now access to it is is great.
37:48.752 --> 37:53.819
[SPEAKER_00]: We're before it was like the person that worked there the longest had that information in their head.
37:54.400 --> 37:57.985
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the person who would sit down and read the manual and do all the trailer.
37:58.405 --> 38:01.690
[SPEAKER_00]: Like so it was like the idea that now, though, if we
38:01.930 --> 38:09.573
[SPEAKER_00]: of A, the systems can somewhat configure themselves based off of data to a point, right, not 100%, but like, you know, pick a number.
38:09.873 --> 38:15.495
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to say it's 40%, 10%, it's north of zero, then what it clearly is now.
38:16.115 --> 38:20.957
[SPEAKER_00]: Then on top of that, the ability for me to query into my systems and have a conversation with it,
38:21.777 --> 38:49.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Historically, I couldn't do like access to that information unless I read the manuals I was never going to get to it now I can you know it's amazing what I could do like and I thought I was okay with some of these systems now I'm like crap I am like a lot I and I didn't even realize and all I got to do is go in and ask the question and now I'm like magic man right I think you're going to see more of that I still think they're specialty and this is actually now if we want to go to some impacts like yeah.
38:49.887 --> 38:57.053
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think AI is going to teach people how to cut a door and add a lock, right?
38:57.273 --> 38:58.994
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't help you, but hoof.
38:59.807 --> 39:06.051
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, machineries there and like, like, saws in like, it's, could you do it?
39:06.411 --> 39:06.812
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
39:06.932 --> 39:09.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to try it on a client door the first time?
39:09.333 --> 39:10.194
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably not.
39:10.955 --> 39:14.217
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's some specialty stuff like that that I think is gonna be there.
39:14.777 --> 39:24.384
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the ability to understand the capabilities of the system and laying out and design work and frankly taking on the outcome.
39:24.404 --> 39:27.586
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why I think outcome based stuff is gonna actually start to impact that industry
39:29.727 --> 39:39.576
[SPEAKER_00]: You're saying you want all these things, here's some solutions of how we can do it, and we'll even participate if we do save you, or increase revenue by this, we get a 10%.
39:40.096 --> 39:52.647
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think there's an entire different way now of that we're gonna be able to approach these systems that will fundamentally deliver better security but then also additional value.
39:53.268 --> 39:55.330
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll make the job I believe,
39:56.523 --> 40:16.975
[SPEAKER_00]: But more fun and more fulfilling, you know, than doing some of the other work that I know people do that, I mean, I don't think anybody really enjoys systems set up in configuration, you know, I think they enjoy once they do it, the outcome to the customer that they get from it, right?
40:16.995 --> 40:20.777
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, every people's names and stuff like, I don't think so.
40:21.577 --> 40:21.778
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:23.128 --> 40:31.432
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you involved in some of the AI-based weapons detection in that part of the industry?
40:33.053 --> 40:35.734
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious enough about it and pay attention to it.
40:36.254 --> 40:52.222
[SPEAKER_00]: Companies out there like Ambien AI and for Cotta, Motorola and Genetech, like what they're doing around, weapon detection, I wouldn't, I'm not an expert in it, but I'm dangerous enough to understand it.
40:52.930 --> 40:56.193
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, then let me go back to what you had just said previously.
40:56.213 --> 41:02.258
[SPEAKER_01]: Are the legacy companies, the milestones, the genotax, the abitulons, et cetera?
41:02.678 --> 41:08.223
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they going to get surpassed by an AI-based solution for access control?
41:09.584 --> 41:14.208
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're seeing that in the SaaS industry,
41:16.973 --> 41:32.140
[SPEAKER_01]: Legacy databases and companies that I've had huge success are taking a beating right now, because now I've got a solution out there that is less clumsy, easier to program, et cetera.
41:32.180 --> 41:34.601
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna name any names because some of them are my clients.
41:36.842 --> 41:44.306
[SPEAKER_01]: But do you think on the access control system side, are the legacy guys gonna get passed up?
41:46.866 --> 42:03.151
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the way I explain this in my writing is I call it the sailing ship syndrome, where if you go back early days of the sailboats, when that was the main way that commerce was done, that actually if you look at it, their businesses were increasing year over year.
42:04.012 --> 42:06.252
[SPEAKER_00]: So they kept creating better sales.
42:07.073 --> 42:07.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:07.433 --> 42:10.254
[SPEAKER_00]: And then this team ship came along and put them
42:16.988 --> 42:20.190
[SPEAKER_00]: that runs the risk of being selling ships.
42:20.650 --> 42:21.871
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:21.891 --> 42:30.596
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can hear some of them sort of moaning out loud by saying, you know,
42:31.982 --> 42:47.894
[SPEAKER_00]: things around, you know, you can't really trust this or if that's not enterprise, like enough, all of these things that they say, which are sort of their work cry of a sailing ship on that end.
42:48.675 --> 43:00.324
[SPEAKER_00]: I do believe I've talked about there's a handful of them that are transforming, as we speak, where they've made some decisions on either building bridges to different systems or some of them
43:01.986 --> 43:09.351
[SPEAKER_00]: didn't realize what they had in our, you know, they had maybe had a visitor management system before or an identity management system before.
43:09.851 --> 43:16.796
[SPEAKER_00]: And they just weren't utilizing it properly, but it's like, oh, wow, we've got this thing now, if we prepackaged it this way, it's like, wow, we're further along.
43:17.256 --> 43:21.199
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're making some decisions on how they want to utilize their APIs and who they integrate with.
43:21.759 --> 43:27.143
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think there is a very large sucking sound
43:32.979 --> 43:41.645
[SPEAKER_00]: video, siloed, access siloed intrusion siloed part of our industry where people are looking at platforms.
43:42.891 --> 43:46.713
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on top of it, I think you have a lot companies, some of these hardware people going up.
43:47.414 --> 43:52.196
[SPEAKER_00]: And then even more, I've got software companies coming in that are platform sitting on top of.
43:52.837 --> 44:05.184
[SPEAKER_00]: And more, is it your guy, arrows coming at you everywhere to where you have to make a decision in the decision today is the quarter to Mahal.
44:05.204 --> 44:07.305
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of them are not moving fast enough, yes.
44:08.234 --> 44:20.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they not moving fast enough because they're stubborn because they've got all of this infrastructure that they've invested in over years and built and spent all this time building the software.
44:23.604 --> 44:26.286
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is, yeah, the common denominator.
44:26.906 --> 44:28.427
[SPEAKER_00]: So first thing I'll say is.
44:29.466 --> 44:38.070
[SPEAKER_00]: I still think there is a viable $10 billion industry that grows at 5% a year and they all get their bonuses because that's the expectation they have in the market, right?
44:38.571 --> 44:47.455
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's declining when you take a step back out and look at the overall market, the growth numbers that are expected for the industry where it's going to be.
44:47.475 --> 44:51.698
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, it's just a choice at this, what type of business do you want to be?
44:51.718 --> 44:56.060
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what's so wonderful about what we're doing right now, like it's just not a place I necessarily want to work.
44:56.997 --> 45:19.206
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think it degrades value over time and I think that's what some of these people are going to find out quickly is when maybe they try to sell their system to a PE firm and they're going to find out to the valuation is very different than five years ago they're going to be a trouble the expectations of return that they get or they turn into very very nice family businesses which is fine too like not everything needs to be a you know.
45:19.746 --> 45:21.548
[SPEAKER_00]: $400 billion business.
45:21.608 --> 45:29.777
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to be, you know, a $20 million business year of year, and then you have a nice boat on the lake.
45:29.917 --> 45:30.498
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's fine.
45:30.918 --> 45:36.164
[SPEAKER_00]: So to your question specifically around the ones that are maybe struggling with innovators dilemma right now.
45:36.682 --> 45:41.904
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I start off and I always say is, I believe a lot of these people are incentivized improperly.
45:42.384 --> 45:44.885
[SPEAKER_00]: And I believe that they were incentivized for growth.
45:45.345 --> 45:58.751
[SPEAKER_00]: If things like little parts, like 20% of our revenue needs to be from products that are built for the past two years ago versus getting bonus off of value engineering 30 year old products, right, how much you want to bet most of these people would figure out.
45:58.871 --> 45:59.751
[SPEAKER_00]: We go back to sales.
46:00.351 --> 46:00.471
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:00.491 --> 46:04.213
[SPEAKER_00]: I've mentioned a bunch of these people would figure out as so a lot of new stuff versus the old stuff.
46:04.776 --> 46:04.936
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:04.956 --> 46:28.835
[SPEAKER_00]: The other one is that I say, second one is demographics that I believe you've had if you think a electronic access control from 1973, we have a lot of 80 to 60 year olds that are managing these businesses that have made a lot of money or more money than they thought they would ever make and I believe that they're at the tail end of their career where injecting risk.
46:29.943 --> 46:43.246
[SPEAKER_00]: actually jeopardizes their legacy, their current job, whatever it might be, and we may not want to admit that that's driving decisions that are made, but I'll say the hard part out loud.
46:43.626 --> 46:45.147
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise you, that's what's happening.
46:46.187 --> 46:49.468
[SPEAKER_00]: So then on top of that, yes, then there's all the other stuff.
46:49.508 --> 46:53.229
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I do think some of these systems were built a certain way.
46:54.646 --> 47:07.511
[SPEAKER_00]: that are on site or were made decisions based on of architectures that, you know, if I think about AI cloud mobile, these are architectures in a lot of ways, more than they are features.
47:08.111 --> 47:18.295
[SPEAKER_00]: And we try to take these features in attach them and it's funky and weird, whereas these companies that are coming in, built on these as architectures, man, they can move fast.
47:18.975 --> 47:21.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, another analogy I use for that is,
47:24.277 --> 47:25.517
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a lot of wood behind it.
47:26.598 --> 47:33.880
[SPEAKER_00]: And those new companies, they've got a problem because once they start getting adopted with their arrowhead new stuff, they got to build a lot of wood.
47:34.380 --> 47:45.664
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is a risk factor for some of these new companies I talk about all the time where I'm like, man, you take all this new and you shove it through all this old you wonder why it's like slow growth and not having to do something different.
47:46.064 --> 47:48.445
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you got a balance between really understanding.
47:49.614 --> 47:54.182
[SPEAKER_00]: What is needed on the wood part so that your arrows continue to be built?
47:56.285 --> 47:56.927
[SPEAKER_00]: That's hard.
47:57.207 --> 48:02.115
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to be these large companies, but some of them that you've mentioned,
48:03.277 --> 48:06.139
[SPEAKER_00]: They're living with some of the decisions that were made before.
48:06.720 --> 48:19.149
[SPEAKER_00]: And frankly, they may just be big fish in a small pond and that being the cottage side and that's OK. And there's this entire larger part of the marketplace that's maybe not built for them.
48:19.349 --> 48:25.554
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, too, is OK. For sure, allow those companies to serve the market.
48:27.072 --> 48:30.813
[SPEAKER_00]: or figure out how to work with those companies.
48:31.534 --> 48:38.316
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of getting a dollar, maybe you're getting a nickel, your install base is worth a lot.
48:38.976 --> 48:41.677
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dealer channel relationships are worth a lot.
48:42.437 --> 48:43.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's value there.
48:45.068 --> 48:51.112
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think some are figuring it out, some are harder than others, and I just wrote a piece that's going out Friday.
48:51.592 --> 48:52.693
[SPEAKER_00]: I broke it out in the thirds.
48:52.773 --> 48:57.275
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some of these that are gonna go out of business or be family owned businesses, which is the family side is fine.
48:58.056 --> 48:59.436
[SPEAKER_00]: Some are gonna figure it out and grow.
49:00.117 --> 49:00.897
[SPEAKER_00]: And just some aren't.
49:01.538 --> 49:01.778
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:02.582 --> 49:03.643
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:03.843 --> 49:19.294
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a company that's going through that PE process right now, and five years ago, their valuation was X, and today it's Y, and they're not happy with Y. Yeah, and I feel bad for them, but it's called reality.
49:19.734 --> 49:21.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
49:22.016 --> 49:23.357
[SPEAKER_01]: This has been fantastic.
49:23.477 --> 49:25.758
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate your insight and your time.
49:26.399 --> 49:27.860
[SPEAKER_01]: How do people get in touch with you?
49:28.502 --> 49:41.712
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you can go to attack.me, TACC.me, or the best way is linked in, just leave us, and I'm the only one called Leo to his son here, so we're glad to be there, and that's the best already in all of me.
49:42.447 --> 49:46.511
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you are you a regular at IC West are you going to look at at least the college easier.
49:46.531 --> 49:47.091
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, catch.
49:47.171 --> 49:48.493
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so we partner with them.
49:49.033 --> 49:53.057
[SPEAKER_00]: They we're the quarter, quarter official podcast of IC West.
49:53.117 --> 49:55.799
[SPEAKER_00]: So you'll find us there doing the secured podcast.
49:55.839 --> 49:56.720
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to have you on.
49:57.181 --> 49:59.923
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect one we're there and we can maybe you a co lab if you would.
49:59.943 --> 50:01.505
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they call that's what the kids call it then.
50:03.446 --> 50:13.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll let George and the kids to figure out the right terminology, but Lee I really appreciate it We'll see you in Vegas and I don't know four or five months and I'm going from there.
50:14.091 --> 50:15.251
[SPEAKER_00]: Look forward to it Thank you, sir.
50:15.271 --> 50:15.571
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks Lee