00:00:04
Speaker 1: He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson show on your twenty four to seven home of the Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Welcome back. I'm Dale LOLLI he is Matt Williamson and this is a drive on Steelers Nation Radio. And Matt as people know of regularly listeners to the show and regular readers of Steelers dot Com. You, myself and Mike Pursuda have put together our triple take rankings of the top five players at each position in this draft, and Bucky Brooks for NFL dot Com put together his top five list for this time. He's got to.
00:00:48
Speaker 1: Think about mine and where we differ on those.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's updated. This is three point oh. So I assume this is going to be his last one as we're just over a week out from the draft. So at quarterback he Bryce Young number one, CJ. Stroud number two, and Din Hooker number three, followed by Anthony Richardson and will Levis Gutsy.
00:01:11
Speaker 1: I know you put Hooker at four, which I was impressed with your moxie on that I thought about. It didn't quite have the stones. My list went Stroud, Young, Richardson, Levis, Hooker, but stroudverd Young to me is really a toss up. I don't feel super strong at one with it.
00:01:29
Speaker 2: It is, and I do think that there is a gap between those two and the next the next three guys.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I like Richardson more than you do, just because I think he can live. He can survive for two years with athleticism and Ronnie.
00:01:45
Speaker 2: Still know these ever, you know, there's certain guys who who are going to get more accurate or have shown that they can be more accurate, but not everybody gets more accurate.
00:01:56
Speaker 1: Not everybody does.
00:01:57
Speaker 2: And the guys like when we're talking about you know, Josh Allen getting more accurate, well, he was still reasonably accurat in college, Like he was a sixty percent passer ish in that rate. Joe Burrow now either, Yeah, Anthony richards is a fifty percent passer in college.
00:02:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worse. I mean his competition was a little harder, but still, you know, like we didn't do a lot of talking about the Jalen Hurts contract. Like I've heard a lot of this since he signed the deal, and I'm sure it's from agents in the team, and everybody's excited about Jalen Hurts great, but they said every day he's been an eagle. He's been the first person in the building and the last person out. And not that this matters, but he walks in with a briefcase and he treats it like a job, you know, like and if Richardson takes that approach, he could be rewarded. Like Jalen Hurts. I just don't know. I mean, everyone's oh, he's a hard worker, he's a great guy. Yeah, but are you and a scene worker like Jalen Hurts and Tom Brady? If he is, he might be the best one in this class, isn't He's in trouble.
00:03:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see. I think what I what I think I've seen happening here and this is what I did as well. I've just kind of soured on Levis as much as anything.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: Me too, quite a bit.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: At running back. But Jean Robinson, Jamior Gibbs as are pretty chalky.
00:03:24
Speaker 1: Zach Charbonney, Yeah, I think he's locked in a three as well.
00:03:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, Devin a chain and then ty j spears those those after three I think is where you get a lot of movement there, because it's what do you what are you looking for exactly want to do you want an explosive back? Okay, do you want a guy who's two hundred and twenty pounds is gonna can carry the ball for you twenty times? What are you looking for in that back?
00:03:52
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. I feel very wishy washy about four through nine to be honest with.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: And they can all be good. They can all be good, but it's going to depend on where they land too.
00:04:06
Speaker 1: I think I put Roshawn Johnson in my final five. I think of all the backs, I have the best clue of what he is and it's not dynamic, but it's solid.
00:04:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he's kind of like Brian Robinson from last year.
00:04:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, good call.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know he's going to be a grinder. He's he's gonna take the football. You know you can live with those guys.
00:04:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. I mean he's big and he's talented.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Wide receiver, Jackson Smith and Jigban number one, Jay Flowers number two, Wynton Johnston three, Jordan Addison four, Jalen Hyatt five.
00:04:45
Speaker 1: That's my exact list.
00:04:46
Speaker 2: I think I think it might be mine too. If not, it's darn close to it.
00:04:49
Speaker 1: It's done close. I couldn't remember if I went hiat five or downs, but there they couldn't be any more different. You know, it just kind of depends what you're looking for. But I feel pretty strong about say Flowers of two now.
00:05:03
Speaker 2: At tight End. He moved, but Dalton kon Kate up to one, Michael Mayer's now down at two, Darnell Washington, who visited the Steelers on Tuesday, is three. Luke Musgrave for Sam Laporta five. Those are my top five as well. I went with I had Mayor number one, though.
00:05:28
Speaker 1: Okay, I regretted a little. I had Musgrave number one. I don't hate that. I mean, I still like him more than consensus. But the more Laporta work I've done, and you had him in your top five and I had him six, I had Tucker Craft at five. I like Laporto as much as any of these guys. You know, like, there's a couple dudes like this is a Flowers argument. Iowa's offense was awful, awful, last awful. Yeah, and he was the only thing they had going for.
00:06:00
Speaker 2: And they've got a pretty good track record with tight Ends.
00:06:03
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's a lot more elusive. You're like, I love Musgrave and I love Washington, but they're not real wiggily, you know, like they don't have a lot of left right agility. They run real fast in a big straight line and they're huge. But like Laporta gets the ball and makes someone miss and stops and starts and you know, and the whole world knows he's getting the football. He's a really good player.
00:06:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. If I was a young tight end, I would want to go to Iowa. Yeah, no doubt, because I'm going to learn how to block and I'm still going.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: To catch the football. Oh yeah, I'm.
00:06:36
Speaker 2: Gonna be very valuable to the NFL team.
00:06:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: No, you're right.
00:06:40
Speaker 1: That's a great class though it is.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: It's interesting the Steelers brought Washington and on Tuesday, I'm enamored with him.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he's such a good blocker. I mean, you and I walked past him. I was like, whoa. I mean, it's a big dude. Yeah yeah, I mean there's a lot of We've seen a lot of football players up close, and a few of them look like that. I think he's a raw receiver, you know, but the Steelers don't need him to be a top three option next year.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: You know, and that's the thing. So you know, yeah, they they you know, they went out and resigned Zach Gentry, but it was a one year deal.
00:07:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've still got Connor Hayward, but he's probably going to be their fullback.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: And if he walked past us in the hall, we wouldn't have had the same.
00:07:31
Speaker 2: Actually I actually did walk past him yesterday. So yeah, and that's nothing. He is Connor Hayward. They couldn't be any different.
00:07:40
Speaker 1: They could be any different. Gentry and Connor Hayward are any different.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: But darn Darnell Washington. He's the one guy of this group that Okay, if it's if he's there at thirty two or even forty nine, it depends on you know, m I get it because he's They liked that, They liked that number two tight end to be a big dude, a big blocking tight end.
00:08:06
Speaker 1: Battling Ravens Bengals, and yeah, and he can do that, and but he could be more than that and more than that. Right again, Gentry, it's fine, we've seen that it works. But what if he ran a four or five.
00:08:18
Speaker 2: Right, you know, right, Okay, an offensive tackle. He's got Pete Skeronsky one I was called him Pete Skronsky, not Peter. I wonder if he I wonder if he likes to if that's something he does, he have to be called Peter is like his mom said, you. I remember there was a kid that I coached in baseball. His name was Jonathan, and every once in a while I'd call him John and his mom would correct me, it's Jonathan. I'm like short, I shortened everybody's name when I'm when I'm coaching him. Let's see you.
00:08:56
Speaker 1: A lot worse things. No one calls me Matthew, but I don't care one bit if they do. You know, you know now I was because you do see that, and you know it better than I do. A lot of these guys get drafted and they're like, everyone's been pronouncing my name wrong my whole life. I really want to go by Peter. Please call me Pete, you know, change my football card and know I didn't want to make a fuss dour in the draft, but you guys have been butchering my name the whole time, or you know, things like it.
00:09:21
Speaker 2: Started when I was a freshman in college and I wasn't allowed to talk to the media then, so nobody knew, you know, have a two.
00:09:28
Speaker 1: Star recruit and they put Peter in the in the thing and nobody calls me Peter. I'm Peter, you know whatever it.
00:09:33
Speaker 2: Is, right, But I don't know that he bumped him up to one. Yeah, moving Paris Johnson down, Okay.
00:09:41
Speaker 1: I have some questions about Johnson and Jones, but I would put Scarronski with the interior guys.
00:09:48
Speaker 2: Uh. He has Broderick Jones three, Darnell Right four, and Anton Harrison five.
00:09:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm liking Harrison more than I did before. He's longer, has heavier hands than I expected. And the Big twelve so goofy. Like the more tape I watch on this guy that it's r po rpo or they're they're always going against three man defensive fronts, you know, like rarely is there this dude screaming off the edge like he's got to deal with in the in the league, but he handles it with ease. But man, I mean the college game is so weird sometimes.
00:10:25
Speaker 2: That's just I can't get past that with some of the Big twelve. Yeah players like that, It's I always look at them as being finesse players.
00:10:34
Speaker 1: It's just so much space. Yeah, they're not.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: You just don't have that in the NFL. No, because you've got twenty twenty two huge bodies in a you know. I mean it looks like it's a huge space, but it's really not. When you put twenty two big men out there like it.
00:10:49
Speaker 1: No, they covered a much ground as they do. And the hash marks don't give you that wide side and the even like the offensive line splits are so wide sometimes. And I mentioned the three man fronts, so I mean every team now is running a five man front, and you know, the everyone thinks the Eagles a four to three team. They have five guys across the line of scrimmage like seven percent of the time, and he's dealing with three of them, you know, and not.
00:11:12
Speaker 2: To figure out who you know, who you're picking up.
00:11:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, But I like the player more and more just watching him do what he does. But it's not it's apples oranges.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: I still like Bergeron was my number five. I just think he's a tremendous run blocker. Like whether he plays left or right, I don't care. He's done, but you know he can do it. And maybe he plays guard for you why he learns Yeah, at guard. We got Osyrus Torrance, Steve Avila, John, Michael Schmidz or these the interior interior guys, I should say Luke and Joe Tipman.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: Okay, that's five.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little different to my my top five. I think we both listed uh Scronsky inside, so that bumps one guy for your list. I had Tipman as my number two. I think behind Tour, I think I had it. I think I had him ahead of Torrents. If I didn't have him ahead of tor inside, they were two three.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: And I had Cody mack in there too.
00:12:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker 1: I hated leaving Avilia out, but I had Scarronsky, Michael Schmidts, Torrens, Tipman, Mock.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: This interior group's not bad, No, it's not.
00:12:32
Speaker 1: I like it more and more.
00:12:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's just a dude.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: Just this morning I heard this about Mock. Is he he snapped every day at practice of his college career, Like he's very comfortable doing the center stuff. Never got a chance to do it because he was a tackle. You know, he was a tight turned tackle. He can be a center.
00:12:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a it's an interesting group. He's just not he doesn't have the base that some of the these other guys like Michael Schmitz or right, yeah, or Tipman or Avila or you know, pick one.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: Like I think Avelia is Avelia is a ten year starter, you know what I mean?
00:13:10
Speaker 2: Like from day I think, I mean, I think every one of these guys on that top five list. Yeah, these are the guys are all long time starters.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: Like I look at the giants at the end of the first round, like as much as they run the ball, just give me any of those.
00:13:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, two of them on the edge. He's got will Anderson number one, No surprise there, Tyree Wilson two, Miles Murphy three, Lucas van Ness four, key On White five. He bumped Murphy up two spots to three, up ahead of van Ness and key On White me too, Yeah, I mean I did. I had him there all the entire time. I thought he would do well. And you know when he finally got the chance to work out, he didn't just do well at his workout, he blew it up.
00:13:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he I was way too low on them. I'd have a hard time passing on him at seventeen. To be very honest with you.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there not only did he blow up his you know he ran a fourth was a four or five to three. Yeah, he did it at two hundred and I think it was two hundred and seventy three pounds. Oh yeah, he was listed at to sixty eight. So he actually got heavier for his workout and still ran in the four.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: Fives and faster, and all his agility drills were phenomenal. I mean, like, and his tape is really good. I mean he has a stud edged or run defender. He has some inconsistencies, sure, but all these d linemen do.
00:14:39
Speaker 2: So he's young. He's really young.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: Like I rarely, rarely, rarely do mock drafts without you, to be honest with you. But I did like a week ago, and I with the intentions of what's it look like if they take Murphy at seventeen? And it worked out that way, and I posted it on Twitter, and of course eighty five percent of the people he doesn't fit. He'd be a third string guy here between behind high Smith and Watt. And I'm like, you're looking at this all wrong, all wrong, all wrong, And I don't care. He doesn't have to turn into Aaron Smith to me. He doesn't have to skim down to.
00:15:17
Speaker 2: Be t J.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: Watt. Just I almost wrote an article this week about it. If the Steelers isn't trade for Robinson, I was going to write this article, and someday I will that. I almost don't care what defensive lineman you know, of course they have to have a position and a responsibility every snap. But all I want are apex predators, you know, Like I use this example, and I'm still kind of refining how I say it, Like, oh, we have a tiger based defense. I have no use for a leopard or lion, Like, shut up, you know, I don't need that tiger shark. I don't need that make o because we only want great whites or you know what I mean. Like, give me an apex predator that's nasty as can be, that's impossible to block, and I'll figure it out.
00:15:59
Speaker 2: Again, I don't. I don't have to squint real hard to get Miles Murphy at six ' five up to two hundred and eighty five two hundred and ninety pounds.
00:16:07
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't, I don't care. But if he doesn't, you know what I mean?
00:16:12
Speaker 2: I mean, that was that was always the issue. I go back to when the Steelers have Mike Rabel and one year he's a one year he's a defensive end. Yeah. The next year, go ahead and lose twenty pounds. We want you to play outside linebacker. Then the next year, now we're going to bump you back to defensive end. Like make up your mind. Now, it just hugs the player.
00:16:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right right. I mean on second and ten, he's out there on first and ten, he's out there. Sometimes he sits, you know, just keep rotating them in. Yeah, find a guard that can't handle his length and line him up over that guy that week, you know, or a tackle that is a little slow footed and line him up there that week. The one funny thing, I don't know if you know this, he's got tiny hands.
00:16:52
Speaker 2: He is eight and a half.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: He has he's crazy long arms. He's six ' five, but he is tiny hands and doesn't really show up on I mean, we had this conversation a year ago about tiny hands. But I found that's kind of funny. I'm like, how did that happen?
00:17:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's strange. And you know the other three guys here on this list, van Ness and key On White. The final three guys all kind of the same type. Big White's a little bit what White's the outlier there, he's two eighty five. Now, yeah, but they're all kind of in that range of they're all six five, you know, two seventy to two eighty five, and they just you just line them up and and I get it. In years past, the Steelers wouldn't have looked at those guys because they're four to three defensive ends.
00:17:38
Speaker 1: I'm trying to train our listeners and readers that that stuff matters so much less.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Now than well, you're in your nickel or dime defense. Seventy five percent of the time.
00:17:49
Speaker 1: They're a four man front or a five man front, you know whatever. I mean, I could play him all over the place. I just don't happen to like Van that's that much, you know. But he's the same way. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just prefer Murphy a great deal. Yeah, I do too, big guys that are hard to block.
00:18:07
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm with you on that, and uh yeah, we'll see where that goes. At defensive tackle, he's got Jalen Carter one. He's bumped Elijah Knsey up to his number two, moving Brian burs down to three Mazie Smith FO.
00:18:24
Speaker 1: He's one of the few that I don't think Cancey does fit though I'm trying not to talk out of both sides of my right.
00:18:29
Speaker 2: Right because of the length. He doesn't have the length you have.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: The short arms worry me to no end.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, if you're a D tackle in this defense, you've gotta be able to take on specialty, you know, double teams. And I can't just have a designated pass.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Rusher D tackle right right.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's a fifth round pick, sure, but.
00:18:49
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, it's a little different. He better be able to do more than just rush on passing downs.
00:18:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if because Murphy can line up at nine techniques having technique before I you know were I think.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: They did it with lee Al last year. You know when TJ. They did it with lee Al last year when t J. Watt was out, le All was playing out essentially outside linebacker. He wasn't dropping in the coverage right right, but he was out there rushing the passer, setting the edge.
00:19:18
Speaker 1: Like I don't think Chancy could do that. Murphy would be fine there andy inside or whatever.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, at Abaris, his number five.
00:19:27
Speaker 1: I loved him in my top five too.
00:19:30
Speaker 2: I had Bent in ahead of him, did you Yeah, I had Bent in the head of Maze Smith too, so.
00:19:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that. I'm not sure if I Bent in my top five or now. I must not have because I had at a bar and I think he was a just miss Benton could be a Steeler though.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely could be. And you know, if you miss you miss on Bris in the first round, you know we're at thirty two if he happens to be available there. I think Bent's a nice fall back there if you want to add a a defensive tackle.
00:20:02
Speaker 1: His style will play in the league.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think people are Is Brian Burssy a classic nose tackle?
00:20:12
Speaker 1: No?
00:20:14
Speaker 2: No, Can he play nose tackle? Yes?
00:20:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: I would much rather take Brian Brussa and say, hey, Brian, you're gonna play fifteen snaps a game on the nose, because well, last year we had times where we put Cam Heyward on the nose, and we don't want to do that to Cam anymore.
00:20:34
Speaker 1: M I don't love that. I mean, he lined up more outside the tackle, which I thought was miscast, than he did on the nose. Yeah, but he can, you know, I mean he's another one just he's an interior defensive lineman. You know, between him and Ogan Jobie and Cam, one of them can play the nose. And they have two dudes that are nose tackles, you know, that aren't dynamic, but they're sit there, squatty nos tackle types.
00:21:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he'll play a lot of snaps as a rookie at linebacker. He moved Nolan Smith to off ball linebacker, which I don't have a problem with.
00:21:14
Speaker 1: I think we both did that cheat code too.
00:21:16
Speaker 2: I didn't on my second go round. I probably should have because I've talked about it enough that you know, I just kept on outside just because I wanted to get some more names onto the inside linebacker spot. He is Drew Sanders number one, followed by Nolan Smith.
00:21:35
Speaker 1: Do you have a preference for the Steelers Like I think those three, I would say Nolan Smith out of the equation. I think Simpson, Sanders Campbell are the top three true off the ball linebackers, and all are dependent on what you're looking for, like they're very different. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure Henley's not in his top five. I think Henley's clearly the fourth true off the ball guy.
00:22:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so as well. For me, I think, to me, Drew Sanders is Lawrence Timmins with better pass rush ability. Yeah yeah. Simpson to me is more Kendra Bell, and then Campbell is kind of a combination, you know what he's He's I think more of the modern day. Hey, I could do everything pretty well.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have a great comp for him, but yeah.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: I don't either because of that length. I mean, the length is unbelievable.
00:22:35
Speaker 1: I think he's a green dot guy, you know. I mean, I think he's a get everyone aligned.
00:22:41
Speaker 2: The closest thing for Campbell is Tremaine Edmonds, except I think he's better than Tremaine Edmonds.
00:22:49
Speaker 1: I mean Edmunds was so raw him in the league where you.
00:22:52
Speaker 2: Know what I mean, Yeah, I think he's a much more finished product. And yet Edmunds went in the first round in Campbell is probably gonna go in the second. It because that's how that position is now valued.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: Like I think Campbell wins the starting job before the first preseason game here not, Yeah, but I think he I would. I feel real good about that.
00:23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah I would too. So I'm listening to NFL Serious NFL Today and it was the Charlie Weiss Show and they were talking about this inside linebacker group and he was asked, I think it was John Papa who hosted it with him, and he asked him or Weiss just offered it up on his own. He says, the question I would have for Drew Sanders is why did he transfer from Alabama to Arkansas? Now he was mistaken about this for his senior year. Drew Sanders is still a junior, so he could have gone back to school this year.
00:23:53
Speaker 1: Right, He had a really good year when he came out.
00:23:56
Speaker 2: To me, I think it's he wanted to play and play.
00:24:00
Speaker 1: So I heard this same conversation on a podcast this morning. It was actually Cosel. He was on Thrust Tucker and he said he because he was talking highly of Sanders on the podcast and said, remember, this guy's an off the ball linebacker for one year, and that's a position it takes a long time to learn. So he's way ahead of the curve from doing that. And this should shock no one, but Bama's edge rushers are Will Anderson, who's gonna be a top three pick. And next year they got a guy who's just as good as Will Anderson. I forget his name, you know, like of course they do, you know.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they may have just told him, hey, look, we're we're not going to move you inside because we got you know, we have Henry Tutu there, we have you know.
00:24:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you're good at rushing the pastors. So you're a third dude. You're not a starter here, but it would be ninety nine percent of the teams.
00:24:50
Speaker 2: And so he transferres Arkansas and the other The other thing about it is people forget about the nil money. Yeah, yeah, somebody you know. He he said, Hey, I'm gonna go into the transfer portal and see what's out there. I'm the third guy, you know, I'm coming off the bench and playing fifteen snaps a game at Alabama. But if I go to Arkansas, this guy's offered me, I'm gonna get one hundred thousand dollars a year in nil money.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, as a starter my door two years ago to sign me. Yeah, I didn't do anything. I'm still the same player. I don't know everyone transfers now. I don't call anybody out on transferring.
00:25:27
Speaker 2: No, I mean, that's just that's that's just the reality of today's college football and college athletics period. Guy's transferring like that. I I love Drew Sanders. I like his fit for the Steelers me too, because of how you know, I think he killed He would help kill two birds with one stone, even if if he's the starter, Okay, that's fine. But if he's not the starter, right, he's my number one edge rusher coming off the bench, and I have a.
00:25:58
Speaker 1: Package for him with Watton, Hot Smith and right, and it's not the same, but it's a little bit like my Miles Murphy rans like, give me really hard guys to block, right, you know, you know he's he's hard to play against.
00:26:17
Speaker 2: It's kind of the way I looked at my number five guy on my inside backers list, and that was Nate Herbig or Nick Herbig. I'm sorry, I look at him kind of the same way, right, right, you know, they're both both of them know how to get to the quarterback mm hmm. They you know. The only difference with her Big is he's played outside, although they did have him, you know, do linebacker drills at the combine and things of that nature. And he's super athletic. I just I think those guys again positionless football. Yeah, I could take that guy again. I brought up a chat the Steelers taking Chad Brown and bumping him inside, and then later in his career they bump him back outside and you know, he goes out and gets you know, fourteen and a half sacks or whatever it was.
00:27:00
Speaker 1: As long as guys are diligent workers and smart, you know, I mean that that plays all day, and your defensive front is gonna look a lot different against the Ravens than it is against the Bengals, you know what I mean.
00:27:12
Speaker 2: Well, that's the other thing I mean, because of the teams in your own in your own division. Yeah, you know you're gonna have you have to be able to attack teams differently. You can't just go out there, well, we run our four to three or three four defense, and here it is, and you know it's not, it's not. It's not two thousand and two anymore. And even in two thousand and two, you know when when you tried to do that, the Patriots and Raiders came out and said, Okay, you're gonna you're just gonna play with your three four defense. We're gonna go three wide receivers and just throw the football on you every single down.
00:27:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And what's your answer for Gronk And you know, yeah, of course, no doubt. And it was Chiefs. I mean she played seven man fronts against the Ravens at the end of the year. Sanders would be on the line of scrimmage there, you know, yeah, next to Watt or not, you know, outside high Smith or whatever.
00:28:03
Speaker 2: At cornerback. This is pretty Yeah, it's.
00:28:07
Speaker 1: Kind of well, there's a guy from Maryland, not on here, not on there.
00:28:11
Speaker 2: So he has Devin Witherspoon number one, Christian Gonzalez number two, Joey Porter number three, Cam Smith number four, Emmanuel Forbes number five. So yeah, no, uh, all.
00:28:25
Speaker 1: Over the board on cam Smith.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen, you know a lot of a lot of mock drafters or a lot of analysts have him sliding down deeper. I still like him.
00:28:37
Speaker 1: I like him too. I don't think I could use the first round pick on him, but no I don't.
00:28:40
Speaker 2: I don't think I would do that, but it wouldn't surprise me if somebody did.
00:28:44
Speaker 1: He's sown heavier than some of these other top corners.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Forbes is the guy to me that I just I can't. I have a hard time getting past one hundred and sixty six pounds because he's the tape is so good, and then I have to keep reminding myself this dude was one hundred and sixty six pounds.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: Right, right, right. I mean I feel like if if you pass on him, you might regret it for a long time. Yeah, take him, you might regret.
00:29:18
Speaker 2: It for a long time.
00:29:20
Speaker 1: That's kind of the field, you know. Yeah, So you're just happier if he goes somewhere else and he's not your problem. You know, I really have mixed feelings.
00:29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I love the again, I love the ball skills. They're elite. But one hundred and sixty six pound corner does that play in today's NFL?
00:29:41
Speaker 1: I don't.
00:29:41
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
00:29:43
Speaker 3: But right right, you know he held up in the sec right, no, no question, But like he was, you know, not like he was playing, you know, in the in the mac right right.
00:29:54
Speaker 1: You mentioned I mean it's unfair you mentioned Golson earlier. They're not built the same at all. They made, weigh the same, but Forbes is six ' one or whatever, super long arms. He's just very skinny. I would have Banks over Smith and Forbes.
00:30:07
Speaker 2: Though I think so too. The thing that I was if I were a team looking at Emmanuel Forbes, I want to take a look at his mom and dad.
00:30:18
Speaker 1: That's a huge recruiting thing.
00:30:20
Speaker 2: Like what a mom and dad are? Mom and dad's super thin like that, and they've that's just their genetics.
00:30:27
Speaker 1: In a body composition. Stuff's come a long way where this guy's still grow I mean, I know they I'm talking way below ahead of my pay grade, but I do know that things have changed where you measure their wrists and all this stuff and say he's probably still growing. Or boy, look how big mom and dad are. Maybe he's just a late bloomer physically. Or my buddy skip Breaker, who I pledged with in my fraternity at UPJ, we used to get find him ten bucks if he wore shorts in the lobby because he was too skinny and he embarrassed all of us. And he could be eight twenty four hours a day and wouldn't have got over one hundred and ten pounds. Skips the best, But it was like, there's just some people that can't put on weight.
00:31:13
Speaker 2: There's just some people that can't put on weight. I will say this. Forbes is twenty two. He just turned twenty two. You know some guy. Again. People age a little differently, they develop a little differently. You know, maybe he hits you talk to mom and dad, and dad was the same size that. I have a friend that when he was a senior in high school, he was six foot three and wrestled at ninety eight pounds. I'm sorry, he was six to one and wrestled ninety eight pounds. By the time he graduated college, he was six three and you know, one hundred and eighty pounds.
00:31:47
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:31:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know some again, some people just developed differently. My brother in law, My.
00:31:54
Speaker 1: Brother in law is six ' five, has lived off of almost exclusively Copenhagen, Corps, Light and McDonald's. And I think he weighs one twenty five. Yeah, like would be four hundred pounds.
00:32:11
Speaker 2: The safety position, Matt, And this is one way I like this group again. I think because of the way the position is now valued, maybe some of these guys get pushed down a little bit more. He has Brian Branch one, Antonio Johnson two, Jordan Battle three c Yeah, yeah, Sydney Brown four, JayR. Brown five. Battle didn't make my top five, but he just missed. Again. Loved the player, but you know, I just love both Illinois safeties too. And you know, I don't understand how you can't have quez Que or Clump Story Kwan Yeah on this list.
00:33:03
Speaker 1: Unless you call him a corner, Well that would.
00:33:06
Speaker 2: Be that would be the difference. And some people do that and I get that, and I get that because he is athletic enough to play corner.
00:33:13
Speaker 1: And he probably wouldn't be in my top five corners, but he was my two safety.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: Yeah mine as well. And that's Kawan Martin by the way. For people wondering, I just think he's he's a dynamic player again positionless football. I'd have absolutely if the Steelers took him at forty nine. I wouldn't. I would not only have not have a problem with it, I would love.
00:33:38
Speaker 1: It at forty nine. Yes, I agree. I don't think he's in my top thirty two anyway you cut it.
00:33:45
Speaker 2: But kind of like to Drew Sanders.
00:33:47
Speaker 1: Conversation, like he can be a corner. Probably don't want to be a corner, but I know he's a slot. He might be Menka's backup if he gets hurt when you have two safeties out there. He's certainly a big nickel guy positions football.
00:34:01
Speaker 2: I mean, that's I think I've compared him to Demante Kyz a little bit. The better comparison might be Cam Sutton.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: I think he's longer than both of them and more athletic than both.
00:34:13
Speaker 2: Of them right wise. And he takes the football away and he's played you know, he's he's played all over the defense oft Illinois, and you know it's a really good pass defense. Like, yeah, sign me up for that guy.
00:34:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's going the second round. He just brings too much to the table.
00:34:30
Speaker 2: Right right. And I realized, you know, you got Cam Sutton in the third round back in twenty seventeen, but you know he didn't run as well as this guy.
00:34:41
Speaker 1: He didn't. You know, it was big either. Yeah, that was all really good corner draft too. I remember when they took Sutton saying most years he goes higher than this. Yeah.
00:34:50
Speaker 2: So to me, I just look at Martin and I think this is a guy that I want. I want to do business with that guy.
00:34:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we can find something to do with him. Sure, he's good on special teams. I mean, but that's down the list of what I want him for. He's going to be a major contributor in this defense.
00:35:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Bucky Brooks updated top fives at each position. And well this is if things work out correctly for the Steelers, they should get at least two, possibly three of those guys.
00:35:22
Speaker 1: Oh very possibly.
00:35:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker 1: I mean, the way this draft works out, a lot of names that aren't listed that will get drafted in the top three rounds or in the top two rounds, you know.
00:35:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's again, that's why this is such a fascinating draft. And wouldn't surprise me, give them what the Steelers have done if they try to acquire a couple more picks in those mid mid to late rounds. This is the bigger late Day two, some somewhere in Day two and maybe early Day three pick. Wouldn't surprise me if they try to acquire something there.
00:35:56
Speaker 1: I just don't know how many were roster spots are available on this team.
00:35:59
Speaker 2: Well that's the problem too. A lot of these contracts that they gave out in this offseason are easy to get out of.
00:36:08
Speaker 1: They're easy to get out of and right, and there's players you're not gonna mind that leave the team a year from now and they'll bring you back compiicts and.
00:36:16
Speaker 2: Not only but you know when you have these veteran guys like that on your roster and then you get into training camp and another team has an injury, yeah, trade those guys.
00:36:27
Speaker 1: You can trade those guys and people get hurt unfortunately.
00:36:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Hey, you can subscribe now to The Drive. Every episode we do is available for you to download. Subscribe today through the Steelers Mobile app, the iHeartRadio app, and wherever you find your podcast. He is Matt Williamson. I am Dale, Lallie. You're listening to the Drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We're gonna be back with segment three right after this
Speaker 1: He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson show on your twenty four to seven home of the Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Welcome back. I'm Dale LOLLI he is Matt Williamson and this is a drive on Steelers Nation Radio. And Matt as people know of regularly listeners to the show and regular readers of Steelers dot Com. You, myself and Mike Pursuda have put together our triple take rankings of the top five players at each position in this draft, and Bucky Brooks for NFL dot Com put together his top five list for this time. He's got to.
00:00:48
Speaker 1: Think about mine and where we differ on those.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's updated. This is three point oh. So I assume this is going to be his last one as we're just over a week out from the draft. So at quarterback he Bryce Young number one, CJ. Stroud number two, and Din Hooker number three, followed by Anthony Richardson and will Levis Gutsy.
00:01:11
Speaker 1: I know you put Hooker at four, which I was impressed with your moxie on that I thought about. It didn't quite have the stones. My list went Stroud, Young, Richardson, Levis, Hooker, but stroudverd Young to me is really a toss up. I don't feel super strong at one with it.
00:01:29
Speaker 2: It is, and I do think that there is a gap between those two and the next the next three guys.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I like Richardson more than you do, just because I think he can live. He can survive for two years with athleticism and Ronnie.
00:01:45
Speaker 2: Still know these ever, you know, there's certain guys who who are going to get more accurate or have shown that they can be more accurate, but not everybody gets more accurate.
00:01:56
Speaker 1: Not everybody does.
00:01:57
Speaker 2: And the guys like when we're talking about you know, Josh Allen getting more accurate, well, he was still reasonably accurat in college, Like he was a sixty percent passer ish in that rate. Joe Burrow now either, Yeah, Anthony richards is a fifty percent passer in college.
00:02:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worse. I mean his competition was a little harder, but still, you know, like we didn't do a lot of talking about the Jalen Hurts contract. Like I've heard a lot of this since he signed the deal, and I'm sure it's from agents in the team, and everybody's excited about Jalen Hurts great, but they said every day he's been an eagle. He's been the first person in the building and the last person out. And not that this matters, but he walks in with a briefcase and he treats it like a job, you know, like and if Richardson takes that approach, he could be rewarded. Like Jalen Hurts. I just don't know. I mean, everyone's oh, he's a hard worker, he's a great guy. Yeah, but are you and a scene worker like Jalen Hurts and Tom Brady? If he is, he might be the best one in this class, isn't He's in trouble.
00:03:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see. I think what I what I think I've seen happening here and this is what I did as well. I've just kind of soured on Levis as much as anything.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: Me too, quite a bit.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: At running back. But Jean Robinson, Jamior Gibbs as are pretty chalky.
00:03:24
Speaker 1: Zach Charbonney, Yeah, I think he's locked in a three as well.
00:03:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, Devin a chain and then ty j spears those those after three I think is where you get a lot of movement there, because it's what do you what are you looking for exactly want to do you want an explosive back? Okay, do you want a guy who's two hundred and twenty pounds is gonna can carry the ball for you twenty times? What are you looking for in that back?
00:03:52
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. I feel very wishy washy about four through nine to be honest with.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: And they can all be good. They can all be good, but it's going to depend on where they land too.
00:04:06
Speaker 1: I think I put Roshawn Johnson in my final five. I think of all the backs, I have the best clue of what he is and it's not dynamic, but it's solid.
00:04:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he's kind of like Brian Robinson from last year.
00:04:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, good call.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know he's going to be a grinder. He's he's gonna take the football. You know you can live with those guys.
00:04:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. I mean he's big and he's talented.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Wide receiver, Jackson Smith and Jigban number one, Jay Flowers number two, Wynton Johnston three, Jordan Addison four, Jalen Hyatt five.
00:04:45
Speaker 1: That's my exact list.
00:04:46
Speaker 2: I think I think it might be mine too. If not, it's darn close to it.
00:04:49
Speaker 1: It's done close. I couldn't remember if I went hiat five or downs, but there they couldn't be any more different. You know, it just kind of depends what you're looking for. But I feel pretty strong about say Flowers of two now.
00:05:03
Speaker 2: At tight End. He moved, but Dalton kon Kate up to one, Michael Mayer's now down at two, Darnell Washington, who visited the Steelers on Tuesday, is three. Luke Musgrave for Sam Laporta five. Those are my top five as well. I went with I had Mayor number one, though.
00:05:28
Speaker 1: Okay, I regretted a little. I had Musgrave number one. I don't hate that. I mean, I still like him more than consensus. But the more Laporta work I've done, and you had him in your top five and I had him six, I had Tucker Craft at five. I like Laporto as much as any of these guys. You know, like, there's a couple dudes like this is a Flowers argument. Iowa's offense was awful, awful, last awful. Yeah, and he was the only thing they had going for.
00:06:00
Speaker 2: And they've got a pretty good track record with tight Ends.
00:06:03
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's a lot more elusive. You're like, I love Musgrave and I love Washington, but they're not real wiggily, you know, like they don't have a lot of left right agility. They run real fast in a big straight line and they're huge. But like Laporta gets the ball and makes someone miss and stops and starts and you know, and the whole world knows he's getting the football. He's a really good player.
00:06:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. If I was a young tight end, I would want to go to Iowa. Yeah, no doubt, because I'm going to learn how to block and I'm still going.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: To catch the football. Oh yeah, I'm.
00:06:36
Speaker 2: Gonna be very valuable to the NFL team.
00:06:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: No, you're right.
00:06:40
Speaker 1: That's a great class though it is.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: It's interesting the Steelers brought Washington and on Tuesday, I'm enamored with him.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he's such a good blocker. I mean, you and I walked past him. I was like, whoa. I mean, it's a big dude. Yeah yeah, I mean there's a lot of We've seen a lot of football players up close, and a few of them look like that. I think he's a raw receiver, you know, but the Steelers don't need him to be a top three option next year.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: You know, and that's the thing. So you know, yeah, they they you know, they went out and resigned Zach Gentry, but it was a one year deal.
00:07:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've still got Connor Hayward, but he's probably going to be their fullback.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: And if he walked past us in the hall, we wouldn't have had the same.
00:07:31
Speaker 2: Actually I actually did walk past him yesterday. So yeah, and that's nothing. He is Connor Hayward. They couldn't be any different.
00:07:40
Speaker 1: They could be any different. Gentry and Connor Hayward are any different.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: But darn Darnell Washington. He's the one guy of this group that Okay, if it's if he's there at thirty two or even forty nine, it depends on you know, m I get it because he's They liked that, They liked that number two tight end to be a big dude, a big blocking tight end.
00:08:06
Speaker 1: Battling Ravens Bengals, and yeah, and he can do that, and but he could be more than that and more than that. Right again, Gentry, it's fine, we've seen that it works. But what if he ran a four or five.
00:08:18
Speaker 2: Right, you know, right, Okay, an offensive tackle. He's got Pete Skeronsky one I was called him Pete Skronsky, not Peter. I wonder if he I wonder if he likes to if that's something he does, he have to be called Peter is like his mom said, you. I remember there was a kid that I coached in baseball. His name was Jonathan, and every once in a while I'd call him John and his mom would correct me, it's Jonathan. I'm like short, I shortened everybody's name when I'm when I'm coaching him. Let's see you.
00:08:56
Speaker 1: A lot worse things. No one calls me Matthew, but I don't care one bit if they do. You know, you know now I was because you do see that, and you know it better than I do. A lot of these guys get drafted and they're like, everyone's been pronouncing my name wrong my whole life. I really want to go by Peter. Please call me Pete, you know, change my football card and know I didn't want to make a fuss dour in the draft, but you guys have been butchering my name the whole time, or you know, things like it.
00:09:21
Speaker 2: Started when I was a freshman in college and I wasn't allowed to talk to the media then, so nobody knew, you know, have a two.
00:09:28
Speaker 1: Star recruit and they put Peter in the in the thing and nobody calls me Peter. I'm Peter, you know whatever it.
00:09:33
Speaker 2: Is, right, But I don't know that he bumped him up to one. Yeah, moving Paris Johnson down, Okay.
00:09:41
Speaker 1: I have some questions about Johnson and Jones, but I would put Scarronski with the interior guys.
00:09:48
Speaker 2: Uh. He has Broderick Jones three, Darnell Right four, and Anton Harrison five.
00:09:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm liking Harrison more than I did before. He's longer, has heavier hands than I expected. And the Big twelve so goofy. Like the more tape I watch on this guy that it's r po rpo or they're they're always going against three man defensive fronts, you know, like rarely is there this dude screaming off the edge like he's got to deal with in the in the league, but he handles it with ease. But man, I mean the college game is so weird sometimes.
00:10:25
Speaker 2: That's just I can't get past that with some of the Big twelve. Yeah players like that, It's I always look at them as being finesse players.
00:10:34
Speaker 1: It's just so much space. Yeah, they're not.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: You just don't have that in the NFL. No, because you've got twenty twenty two huge bodies in a you know. I mean it looks like it's a huge space, but it's really not. When you put twenty two big men out there like it.
00:10:49
Speaker 1: No, they covered a much ground as they do. And the hash marks don't give you that wide side and the even like the offensive line splits are so wide sometimes. And I mentioned the three man fronts, so I mean every team now is running a five man front, and you know, the everyone thinks the Eagles a four to three team. They have five guys across the line of scrimmage like seven percent of the time, and he's dealing with three of them, you know, and not.
00:11:12
Speaker 2: To figure out who you know, who you're picking up.
00:11:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, But I like the player more and more just watching him do what he does. But it's not it's apples oranges.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: I still like Bergeron was my number five. I just think he's a tremendous run blocker. Like whether he plays left or right, I don't care. He's done, but you know he can do it. And maybe he plays guard for you why he learns Yeah, at guard. We got Osyrus Torrance, Steve Avila, John, Michael Schmidz or these the interior interior guys, I should say Luke and Joe Tipman.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: Okay, that's five.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little different to my my top five. I think we both listed uh Scronsky inside, so that bumps one guy for your list. I had Tipman as my number two. I think behind Tour, I think I had it. I think I had him ahead of Torrents. If I didn't have him ahead of tor inside, they were two three.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: And I had Cody mack in there too.
00:12:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker 1: I hated leaving Avilia out, but I had Scarronsky, Michael Schmidts, Torrens, Tipman, Mock.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: This interior group's not bad, No, it's not.
00:12:32
Speaker 1: I like it more and more.
00:12:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's just a dude.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: Just this morning I heard this about Mock. Is he he snapped every day at practice of his college career, Like he's very comfortable doing the center stuff. Never got a chance to do it because he was a tackle. You know, he was a tight turned tackle. He can be a center.
00:12:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a it's an interesting group. He's just not he doesn't have the base that some of the these other guys like Michael Schmitz or right, yeah, or Tipman or Avila or you know, pick one.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: Like I think Avelia is Avelia is a ten year starter, you know what I mean?
00:13:10
Speaker 2: Like from day I think, I mean, I think every one of these guys on that top five list. Yeah, these are the guys are all long time starters.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: Like I look at the giants at the end of the first round, like as much as they run the ball, just give me any of those.
00:13:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, two of them on the edge. He's got will Anderson number one, No surprise there, Tyree Wilson two, Miles Murphy three, Lucas van Ness four, key On White five. He bumped Murphy up two spots to three, up ahead of van Ness and key On White me too, Yeah, I mean I did. I had him there all the entire time. I thought he would do well. And you know when he finally got the chance to work out, he didn't just do well at his workout, he blew it up.
00:13:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he I was way too low on them. I'd have a hard time passing on him at seventeen. To be very honest with you.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there not only did he blow up his you know he ran a fourth was a four or five to three. Yeah, he did it at two hundred and I think it was two hundred and seventy three pounds. Oh yeah, he was listed at to sixty eight. So he actually got heavier for his workout and still ran in the four.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: Fives and faster, and all his agility drills were phenomenal. I mean, like, and his tape is really good. I mean he has a stud edged or run defender. He has some inconsistencies, sure, but all these d linemen do.
00:14:39
Speaker 2: So he's young. He's really young.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: Like I rarely, rarely, rarely do mock drafts without you, to be honest with you. But I did like a week ago, and I with the intentions of what's it look like if they take Murphy at seventeen? And it worked out that way, and I posted it on Twitter, and of course eighty five percent of the people he doesn't fit. He'd be a third string guy here between behind high Smith and Watt. And I'm like, you're looking at this all wrong, all wrong, all wrong, And I don't care. He doesn't have to turn into Aaron Smith to me. He doesn't have to skim down to.
00:15:17
Speaker 2: Be t J.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: Watt. Just I almost wrote an article this week about it. If the Steelers isn't trade for Robinson, I was going to write this article, and someday I will that. I almost don't care what defensive lineman you know, of course they have to have a position and a responsibility every snap. But all I want are apex predators, you know, Like I use this example, and I'm still kind of refining how I say it, Like, oh, we have a tiger based defense. I have no use for a leopard or lion, Like, shut up, you know, I don't need that tiger shark. I don't need that make o because we only want great whites or you know what I mean. Like, give me an apex predator that's nasty as can be, that's impossible to block, and I'll figure it out.
00:15:59
Speaker 2: Again, I don't. I don't have to squint real hard to get Miles Murphy at six ' five up to two hundred and eighty five two hundred and ninety pounds.
00:16:07
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't, I don't care. But if he doesn't, you know what I mean?
00:16:12
Speaker 2: I mean, that was that was always the issue. I go back to when the Steelers have Mike Rabel and one year he's a one year he's a defensive end. Yeah. The next year, go ahead and lose twenty pounds. We want you to play outside linebacker. Then the next year, now we're going to bump you back to defensive end. Like make up your mind. Now, it just hugs the player.
00:16:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right right. I mean on second and ten, he's out there on first and ten, he's out there. Sometimes he sits, you know, just keep rotating them in. Yeah, find a guard that can't handle his length and line him up over that guy that week, you know, or a tackle that is a little slow footed and line him up there that week. The one funny thing, I don't know if you know this, he's got tiny hands.
00:16:52
Speaker 2: He is eight and a half.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: He has he's crazy long arms. He's six ' five, but he is tiny hands and doesn't really show up on I mean, we had this conversation a year ago about tiny hands. But I found that's kind of funny. I'm like, how did that happen?
00:17:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's strange. And you know the other three guys here on this list, van Ness and key On White. The final three guys all kind of the same type. Big White's a little bit what White's the outlier there, he's two eighty five. Now, yeah, but they're all kind of in that range of they're all six five, you know, two seventy to two eighty five, and they just you just line them up and and I get it. In years past, the Steelers wouldn't have looked at those guys because they're four to three defensive ends.
00:17:38
Speaker 1: I'm trying to train our listeners and readers that that stuff matters so much less.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Now than well, you're in your nickel or dime defense. Seventy five percent of the time.
00:17:49
Speaker 1: They're a four man front or a five man front, you know whatever. I mean, I could play him all over the place. I just don't happen to like Van that's that much, you know. But he's the same way. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just prefer Murphy a great deal. Yeah, I do too, big guys that are hard to block.
00:18:07
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm with you on that, and uh yeah, we'll see where that goes. At defensive tackle, he's got Jalen Carter one. He's bumped Elijah Knsey up to his number two, moving Brian burs down to three Mazie Smith FO.
00:18:24
Speaker 1: He's one of the few that I don't think Cancey does fit though I'm trying not to talk out of both sides of my right.
00:18:29
Speaker 2: Right because of the length. He doesn't have the length you have.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: The short arms worry me to no end.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, if you're a D tackle in this defense, you've gotta be able to take on specialty, you know, double teams. And I can't just have a designated pass.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Rusher D tackle right right.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's a fifth round pick, sure, but.
00:18:49
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, it's a little different. He better be able to do more than just rush on passing downs.
00:18:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if because Murphy can line up at nine techniques having technique before I you know were I think.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: They did it with lee Al last year. You know when TJ. They did it with lee Al last year when t J. Watt was out, le All was playing out essentially outside linebacker. He wasn't dropping in the coverage right right, but he was out there rushing the passer, setting the edge.
00:19:18
Speaker 1: Like I don't think Chancy could do that. Murphy would be fine there andy inside or whatever.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, at Abaris, his number five.
00:19:27
Speaker 1: I loved him in my top five too.
00:19:30
Speaker 2: I had Bent in ahead of him, did you Yeah, I had Bent in the head of Maze Smith too, so.
00:19:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that. I'm not sure if I Bent in my top five or now. I must not have because I had at a bar and I think he was a just miss Benton could be a Steeler though.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely could be. And you know, if you miss you miss on Bris in the first round, you know we're at thirty two if he happens to be available there. I think Bent's a nice fall back there if you want to add a a defensive tackle.
00:20:02
Speaker 1: His style will play in the league.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think people are Is Brian Burssy a classic nose tackle?
00:20:12
Speaker 1: No?
00:20:14
Speaker 2: No, Can he play nose tackle? Yes?
00:20:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: I would much rather take Brian Brussa and say, hey, Brian, you're gonna play fifteen snaps a game on the nose, because well, last year we had times where we put Cam Heyward on the nose, and we don't want to do that to Cam anymore.
00:20:34
Speaker 1: M I don't love that. I mean, he lined up more outside the tackle, which I thought was miscast, than he did on the nose. Yeah, but he can, you know, I mean he's another one just he's an interior defensive lineman. You know, between him and Ogan Jobie and Cam, one of them can play the nose. And they have two dudes that are nose tackles, you know, that aren't dynamic, but they're sit there, squatty nos tackle types.
00:21:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he'll play a lot of snaps as a rookie at linebacker. He moved Nolan Smith to off ball linebacker, which I don't have a problem with.
00:21:14
Speaker 1: I think we both did that cheat code too.
00:21:16
Speaker 2: I didn't on my second go round. I probably should have because I've talked about it enough that you know, I just kept on outside just because I wanted to get some more names onto the inside linebacker spot. He is Drew Sanders number one, followed by Nolan Smith.
00:21:35
Speaker 1: Do you have a preference for the Steelers Like I think those three, I would say Nolan Smith out of the equation. I think Simpson, Sanders Campbell are the top three true off the ball linebackers, and all are dependent on what you're looking for, like they're very different. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure Henley's not in his top five. I think Henley's clearly the fourth true off the ball guy.
00:22:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so as well. For me, I think, to me, Drew Sanders is Lawrence Timmins with better pass rush ability. Yeah yeah. Simpson to me is more Kendra Bell, and then Campbell is kind of a combination, you know what he's He's I think more of the modern day. Hey, I could do everything pretty well.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have a great comp for him, but yeah.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: I don't either because of that length. I mean, the length is unbelievable.
00:22:35
Speaker 1: I think he's a green dot guy, you know. I mean, I think he's a get everyone aligned.
00:22:41
Speaker 2: The closest thing for Campbell is Tremaine Edmonds, except I think he's better than Tremaine Edmonds.
00:22:49
Speaker 1: I mean Edmunds was so raw him in the league where you.
00:22:52
Speaker 2: Know what I mean, Yeah, I think he's a much more finished product. And yet Edmunds went in the first round in Campbell is probably gonna go in the second. It because that's how that position is now valued.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: Like I think Campbell wins the starting job before the first preseason game here not, Yeah, but I think he I would. I feel real good about that.
00:23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah I would too. So I'm listening to NFL Serious NFL Today and it was the Charlie Weiss Show and they were talking about this inside linebacker group and he was asked, I think it was John Papa who hosted it with him, and he asked him or Weiss just offered it up on his own. He says, the question I would have for Drew Sanders is why did he transfer from Alabama to Arkansas? Now he was mistaken about this for his senior year. Drew Sanders is still a junior, so he could have gone back to school this year.
00:23:53
Speaker 1: Right, He had a really good year when he came out.
00:23:56
Speaker 2: To me, I think it's he wanted to play and play.
00:24:00
Speaker 1: So I heard this same conversation on a podcast this morning. It was actually Cosel. He was on Thrust Tucker and he said he because he was talking highly of Sanders on the podcast and said, remember, this guy's an off the ball linebacker for one year, and that's a position it takes a long time to learn. So he's way ahead of the curve from doing that. And this should shock no one, but Bama's edge rushers are Will Anderson, who's gonna be a top three pick. And next year they got a guy who's just as good as Will Anderson. I forget his name, you know, like of course they do, you know.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they may have just told him, hey, look, we're we're not going to move you inside because we got you know, we have Henry Tutu there, we have you know.
00:24:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you're good at rushing the pastors. So you're a third dude. You're not a starter here, but it would be ninety nine percent of the teams.
00:24:50
Speaker 2: And so he transferres Arkansas and the other The other thing about it is people forget about the nil money. Yeah, yeah, somebody you know. He he said, Hey, I'm gonna go into the transfer portal and see what's out there. I'm the third guy, you know, I'm coming off the bench and playing fifteen snaps a game at Alabama. But if I go to Arkansas, this guy's offered me, I'm gonna get one hundred thousand dollars a year in nil money.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, as a starter my door two years ago to sign me. Yeah, I didn't do anything. I'm still the same player. I don't know everyone transfers now. I don't call anybody out on transferring.
00:25:27
Speaker 2: No, I mean, that's just that's that's just the reality of today's college football and college athletics period. Guy's transferring like that. I I love Drew Sanders. I like his fit for the Steelers me too, because of how you know, I think he killed He would help kill two birds with one stone, even if if he's the starter, Okay, that's fine. But if he's not the starter, right, he's my number one edge rusher coming off the bench, and I have a.
00:25:58
Speaker 1: Package for him with Watton, Hot Smith and right, and it's not the same, but it's a little bit like my Miles Murphy rans like, give me really hard guys to block, right, you know, you know he's he's hard to play against.
00:26:17
Speaker 2: It's kind of the way I looked at my number five guy on my inside backers list, and that was Nate Herbig or Nick Herbig. I'm sorry, I look at him kind of the same way, right, right, you know, they're both both of them know how to get to the quarterback mm hmm. They you know. The only difference with her Big is he's played outside, although they did have him, you know, do linebacker drills at the combine and things of that nature. And he's super athletic. I just I think those guys again positionless football. Yeah, I could take that guy again. I brought up a chat the Steelers taking Chad Brown and bumping him inside, and then later in his career they bump him back outside and you know, he goes out and gets you know, fourteen and a half sacks or whatever it was.
00:27:00
Speaker 1: As long as guys are diligent workers and smart, you know, I mean that that plays all day, and your defensive front is gonna look a lot different against the Ravens than it is against the Bengals, you know what I mean.
00:27:12
Speaker 2: Well, that's the other thing I mean, because of the teams in your own in your own division. Yeah, you know you're gonna have you have to be able to attack teams differently. You can't just go out there, well, we run our four to three or three four defense, and here it is, and you know it's not, it's not. It's not two thousand and two anymore. And even in two thousand and two, you know when when you tried to do that, the Patriots and Raiders came out and said, Okay, you're gonna you're just gonna play with your three four defense. We're gonna go three wide receivers and just throw the football on you every single down.
00:27:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And what's your answer for Gronk And you know, yeah, of course, no doubt. And it was Chiefs. I mean she played seven man fronts against the Ravens at the end of the year. Sanders would be on the line of scrimmage there, you know, yeah, next to Watt or not, you know, outside high Smith or whatever.
00:28:03
Speaker 2: At cornerback. This is pretty Yeah, it's.
00:28:07
Speaker 1: Kind of well, there's a guy from Maryland, not on here, not on there.
00:28:11
Speaker 2: So he has Devin Witherspoon number one, Christian Gonzalez number two, Joey Porter number three, Cam Smith number four, Emmanuel Forbes number five. So yeah, no, uh, all.
00:28:25
Speaker 1: Over the board on cam Smith.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen, you know a lot of a lot of mock drafters or a lot of analysts have him sliding down deeper. I still like him.
00:28:37
Speaker 1: I like him too. I don't think I could use the first round pick on him, but no I don't.
00:28:40
Speaker 2: I don't think I would do that, but it wouldn't surprise me if somebody did.
00:28:44
Speaker 1: He's sown heavier than some of these other top corners.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Forbes is the guy to me that I just I can't. I have a hard time getting past one hundred and sixty six pounds because he's the tape is so good, and then I have to keep reminding myself this dude was one hundred and sixty six pounds.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: Right, right, right. I mean I feel like if if you pass on him, you might regret it for a long time. Yeah, take him, you might regret.
00:29:18
Speaker 2: It for a long time.
00:29:20
Speaker 1: That's kind of the field, you know. Yeah, So you're just happier if he goes somewhere else and he's not your problem. You know, I really have mixed feelings.
00:29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I love the again, I love the ball skills. They're elite. But one hundred and sixty six pound corner does that play in today's NFL?
00:29:41
Speaker 1: I don't.
00:29:41
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
00:29:43
Speaker 3: But right right, you know he held up in the sec right, no, no question, But like he was, you know, not like he was playing, you know, in the in the mac right right.
00:29:54
Speaker 1: You mentioned I mean it's unfair you mentioned Golson earlier. They're not built the same at all. They made, weigh the same, but Forbes is six ' one or whatever, super long arms. He's just very skinny. I would have Banks over Smith and Forbes.
00:30:07
Speaker 2: Though I think so too. The thing that I was if I were a team looking at Emmanuel Forbes, I want to take a look at his mom and dad.
00:30:18
Speaker 1: That's a huge recruiting thing.
00:30:20
Speaker 2: Like what a mom and dad are? Mom and dad's super thin like that, and they've that's just their genetics.
00:30:27
Speaker 1: In a body composition. Stuff's come a long way where this guy's still grow I mean, I know they I'm talking way below ahead of my pay grade, but I do know that things have changed where you measure their wrists and all this stuff and say he's probably still growing. Or boy, look how big mom and dad are. Maybe he's just a late bloomer physically. Or my buddy skip Breaker, who I pledged with in my fraternity at UPJ, we used to get find him ten bucks if he wore shorts in the lobby because he was too skinny and he embarrassed all of us. And he could be eight twenty four hours a day and wouldn't have got over one hundred and ten pounds. Skips the best, But it was like, there's just some people that can't put on weight.
00:31:13
Speaker 2: There's just some people that can't put on weight. I will say this. Forbes is twenty two. He just turned twenty two. You know some guy. Again. People age a little differently, they develop a little differently. You know, maybe he hits you talk to mom and dad, and dad was the same size that. I have a friend that when he was a senior in high school, he was six foot three and wrestled at ninety eight pounds. I'm sorry, he was six to one and wrestled ninety eight pounds. By the time he graduated college, he was six three and you know, one hundred and eighty pounds.
00:31:47
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:31:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know some again, some people just developed differently. My brother in law, My.
00:31:54
Speaker 1: Brother in law is six ' five, has lived off of almost exclusively Copenhagen, Corps, Light and McDonald's. And I think he weighs one twenty five. Yeah, like would be four hundred pounds.
00:32:11
Speaker 2: The safety position, Matt, And this is one way I like this group again. I think because of the way the position is now valued, maybe some of these guys get pushed down a little bit more. He has Brian Branch one, Antonio Johnson two, Jordan Battle three c Yeah, yeah, Sydney Brown four, JayR. Brown five. Battle didn't make my top five, but he just missed. Again. Loved the player, but you know, I just love both Illinois safeties too. And you know, I don't understand how you can't have quez Que or Clump Story Kwan Yeah on this list.
00:33:03
Speaker 1: Unless you call him a corner, Well that would.
00:33:06
Speaker 2: Be that would be the difference. And some people do that and I get that, and I get that because he is athletic enough to play corner.
00:33:13
Speaker 1: And he probably wouldn't be in my top five corners, but he was my two safety.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: Yeah mine as well. And that's Kawan Martin by the way. For people wondering, I just think he's he's a dynamic player again positionless football. I'd have absolutely if the Steelers took him at forty nine. I wouldn't. I would not only have not have a problem with it, I would love.
00:33:38
Speaker 1: It at forty nine. Yes, I agree. I don't think he's in my top thirty two anyway you cut it.
00:33:45
Speaker 2: But kind of like to Drew Sanders.
00:33:47
Speaker 1: Conversation, like he can be a corner. Probably don't want to be a corner, but I know he's a slot. He might be Menka's backup if he gets hurt when you have two safeties out there. He's certainly a big nickel guy positions football.
00:34:01
Speaker 2: I mean, that's I think I've compared him to Demante Kyz a little bit. The better comparison might be Cam Sutton.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: I think he's longer than both of them and more athletic than both.
00:34:13
Speaker 2: Of them right wise. And he takes the football away and he's played you know, he's he's played all over the defense oft Illinois, and you know it's a really good pass defense. Like, yeah, sign me up for that guy.
00:34:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's going the second round. He just brings too much to the table.
00:34:30
Speaker 2: Right right. And I realized, you know, you got Cam Sutton in the third round back in twenty seventeen, but you know he didn't run as well as this guy.
00:34:41
Speaker 1: He didn't. You know, it was big either. Yeah, that was all really good corner draft too. I remember when they took Sutton saying most years he goes higher than this. Yeah.
00:34:50
Speaker 2: So to me, I just look at Martin and I think this is a guy that I want. I want to do business with that guy.
00:34:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we can find something to do with him. Sure, he's good on special teams. I mean, but that's down the list of what I want him for. He's going to be a major contributor in this defense.
00:35:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Bucky Brooks updated top fives at each position. And well this is if things work out correctly for the Steelers, they should get at least two, possibly three of those guys.
00:35:22
Speaker 1: Oh very possibly.
00:35:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker 1: I mean, the way this draft works out, a lot of names that aren't listed that will get drafted in the top three rounds or in the top two rounds, you know.
00:35:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's again, that's why this is such a fascinating draft. And wouldn't surprise me, give them what the Steelers have done if they try to acquire a couple more picks in those mid mid to late rounds. This is the bigger late Day two, some somewhere in Day two and maybe early Day three pick. Wouldn't surprise me if they try to acquire something there.
00:35:56
Speaker 1: I just don't know how many were roster spots are available on this team.
00:35:59
Speaker 2: Well that's the problem too. A lot of these contracts that they gave out in this offseason are easy to get out of.
00:36:08
Speaker 1: They're easy to get out of and right, and there's players you're not gonna mind that leave the team a year from now and they'll bring you back compiicts and.
00:36:16
Speaker 2: Not only but you know when you have these veteran guys like that on your roster and then you get into training camp and another team has an injury, yeah, trade those guys.
00:36:27
Speaker 1: You can trade those guys and people get hurt unfortunately.
00:36:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Hey, you can subscribe now to The Drive. Every episode we do is available for you to download. Subscribe today through the Steelers Mobile app, the iHeartRadio app, and wherever you find your podcast. He is Matt Williamson. I am Dale, Lallie. You're listening to the Drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We're gonna be back with segment three right after this
