304. Becoming a Young Manager - Never Too Young to Lead

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Yes.
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Law, you alright?
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Yeah, I'm really good.
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Yeah, I can still hear your croaky voice a little bit, so you've obviously been doing more singing, Laura.
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I just seem to be doing a lot of chatting.
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Yeah.
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Chatting, are you sure?
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In in loud, noisy places and just trying to have the alpha female voice there just to beat them into learning submission.
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I mean create a psychologically safe learning environment.
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Well, everybody contributes, yeah, absolutely.
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Me mostly.
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Yeah, of course.
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Oh my god, I love that.
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So you've had a good week though.
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Yeah, really good week.
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And you know, I am loving this four-part focus that we're doing, all about how do you thrive through life stages.
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So we enjoy the transition between different chapters rather than kind of dreading, you know, what might what might be ahead.
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And I think I feel very um connected at the moment, Debs, with the fact that the responsibility that we have to younger generations to um at least look like life has some opportunities if you choose to put the effort in and make it happen.
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And I think the last thing that the um newer generation that will be entering into the workforce either now or soon need is to already feel like the puff has been taken out of their ambition.
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Because I certainly did not have that environment as I entered into the world of work in the mid to late 90s, and I I I don't think I really I don't think I could really have clocked it at the time just how important some of those leadership role model figures that I had around me.
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And yeah, so we thought, wouldn't it be interesting on the second in this four-part focus to look at well, what does it mean to become a young manager?
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And especially that moment where you shift from peer to leader.
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Yeah, definitely.
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And obviously, we're joined by the wonderful Dave McCabe.
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Um, big up to Papa Bear.
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Um, because you listen to him, and you're I know you're gonna, we're all gonna listen to him in a minute, but when you listen to him and what his belief is and where his core values sit, you can hear it as he talks about the passion he has for enabling new managers or inverted commas, young managers, first-time managers at the dawn of their career, whatever you want to call it, we're not pigeonholing people solely.
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Um, he just speaks with so much passion um because he cares.
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It comes from a place of care.
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And yeah, so shall we take a listen and see what he shared with us?
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Oh, yes.
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And just a heads up, if you haven't listened to Dave McKay before, because he is secrets from a coach, like number number one, we adore him.
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Um, he has got the best voice in the business.
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So uh pop this in your ears and enjoy.
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So, hi everyone.
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As you can see, I have got a guest.
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Yeah, we love guests, and we actually have probably our number one fan with us today, Mr.
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Dave McCabe.
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Um, and it's a real privilege to have you, Dave, because we had you on our podcast a while back now talking about some amazing stuff.
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And I myself and Laura are delighted that on this one we've got you talking about what it is it like to be a young manager.
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Um, and through your experience, obviously you're only 24 now, obviously.
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Um not being but no, uh but through your experience of being a manager and a leader, it's really important, I think, that we can explore some of the pitfalls, some of the things to be aware of, because you know, we've noticed that over the years, younger people coming into management may not have had a good role model or they may not have a mentor or somebody that can share with them some of that wisdom and knowledge that you know you've acquired over years.
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So I kind of wait for this as part of our series of living, uh thriving through life changes.
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And as we know, moving in from a team member into the team manager, then on to maybe the you know department head or director, it's huge.
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Um, and it's how do we transition through that well?
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So thank you for joining us, Dave, uh, again.
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So give us a bit of an update for our listeners that haven't heard from you for a little while.
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Tell us a little bit of where you're at now.
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Yeah, so uh I think I joined the last podcast back in 24 depths.
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Wow, that's yeah, too long.
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Oh my goodness, that's too long.
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Yeah, so um since then I've uh changed roles and moved into a leadership role with a long haul airline.
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Yes.
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And I there are other airlines out there, aren't they?
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But we There are, there are, yeah, yeah, other airlines are available.
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Um but uh yes, so I've joined a long haul airline uh in a people leadership role.
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I've been there now for j over two and a half years.
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Um, so it's been a really good experience and just bringing all that experience that I have um from all of the years that I've been in a leadership role.
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Yeah.
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And it's all starting to fit in in place, um, which is that's brilliant.
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Surprising, but also not surprising if that makes sense.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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I think sometimes we move and then we realise just how much we do know or are doing, and it's quite natural.
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Yeah, at the very beginning of your you know, stepping into a manager role when you were and you know maybe became a manager for the first time.
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Um, what was the biggest change that you had to navigate?
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And I suppose what helped you to believe that you were ready to lead?
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Yeah, so I think around the biggest change and realising that being good at the job and being good at leading people, two very different things.
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Very true, yeah.
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That was what I identified very, very early on because when I stepped in to manager at 21, okay.
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That was a big, big because you're leading then peers that you were once part of a team with.
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Yeah, sure.
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You had you know giggles with and you know, some inappropriate comments and jokes uh that you that you can't do then when when you move into a leadership role.
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And but I think the pressure that I put on myself was around having all of the answers.
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Right.
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Okay, yeah.
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And being looked up to by that group of people for that direction and that leadership when actually I didn't have all of the answers.
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Yeah.
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I learned really quickly that it's not about being the person in the room who knows everything.
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It's about when you create that environment for people where they feel valued and they're able to contribute and they feel valued more so than anything.
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That's a real important thing for me.
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And that's where I think you get the best out of individuals.
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Yeah, definitely.
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And I love you know, 21 is young, right?
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To be a manager.
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Um, and then as you say, you're sort of just growing up still as well in life.
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Um, and I think it's that bit where you said, How do I create that environment?
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And I think that's where some people get it a bit wrong, because they're you're right.
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I love the fact you said, you know, I thought I needed to have all the answers, but you realize that you don't.
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So I suppose when you when you sort of have got that and went, oh, that makes perfect sense.
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How then did you carry on building your belief into being a great manager and now on being a great leader over the years?
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What was it that enabled you to keep that self-belief going?
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I recognized that I didn't need to be a different person just because I'd moved into a leadership role.
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Nice.
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I didn't need to change who I was because fundamentally who I was got me to where I needed to be.
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Yeah.
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Because I cared about people.
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I recognized the importance of great service and delivering a great experience for customers because that brings, you know, repeat business and customers then come back because they've had such a great experience.
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So all of that stuff I felt was really important and fundamental to who I wanted to be as a leader as well.
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Because you need to care for people when you leave.
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Yeah, yeah, you need to.
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Yeah, you've got to have some semblance of like, as you said, liking to work with people.
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Otherwise, why are you a people manager, as we always say?
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You don't like people, why are you working with people?
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Um, so I love the fact that you you recognize that that and that's stood you in good stead, I suppose, over the years.
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Now you're like 27, you know.
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I'm actually 26 steps, but that's oh sorry.
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Well, yeah, I think you know, in terms of that, communicating as well is really important.
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So because that I wasn't aware of some of the um the big stuff that was coming down the line, I needed to kind of keep that communication channel open with with the team, making sure you know that I wasn't kind of doing anything that I wouldn't expect them to do.
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Yeah, and then lead leading from the front.
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But I think I felt really outside my comfort zone.
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That's what it was.
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And okay, and I know that when when we've spoken, we've said that when you're outside your comfort zone, that's where the magic happens.
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It does, yes.
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And I've always carried that with me around that in some form.
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Um, but also it was more around there's never there's never a right time to step into a new role or a leadership role.
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It's more about the mindset that you have, and when you shift that mindset to, am I ready to, I'm actually willing to learn this.
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Yeah, that's a that's such a valid point, isn't it?
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Because as you said, you might be good at the job, but the minute you step into a manager leader role, it's it's a it is a different mindset, and and that and you've got to care.
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I love the fact you've said that, you've got to care.
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And I know we were joking about age, and uh, we're not being age or anything like that, but there is a lot of um, I suppose, when age versus credibility, and as you said, joining, you know, being a manager at a young age, working with peers that may have been older than you, they might have sometimes thought, oh, as a young manager, I might have to prove myself.
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Um, as you say, especially if you're leading people that are older or much more experienced than you, that could be quite daunting.
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So I suppose my question, Dave, would be how did you establish credibility without feeling you needed to know everything or become someone you weren't?
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Because that's what you said.
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You stay true to who you were, you realize you didn't need to know all the answers.
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But I suppose the credibility thing is the one that people struggle with sometimes.
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So, how did you establish that?
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I learned very quickly, Debs, that actually being, you know, you don't need to prove that you're the smartest person in the room.
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Yeah, true.
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You really don't, because there was more people in that room that got more experience than I than I had at 21.
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Why would I not then tap into that experience to say, what have you experienced?
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Yeah.
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How can you give me that information?
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Yes.
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And I've taken that through all of my leadership roles because I think if you remain insular with all the stuff that you've learned, why wouldn't you help somebody that wants to progress as a leader?
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That's primarily what you're doing.
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You're enabling people to reach that next stage in their leadership journey if that's where they want to go.
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Yeah.
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That's where I was very conscious around that.
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And I wanted people to feel that you know, if they made a mistake or they didn't know the answer, that's fine.
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Because I was also that person.
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Yes.
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I didn't know the answer all the time.
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You kind of think I can either wing this.
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Which sometimes we can, but then realize, oh, maybe not.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think you know, there's there's elements that you can wing.
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Yeah.
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I think you know, I think it's really important to show that vulnerability as well as a leader.
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Yeah.
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Because that then builds credibility with your team because they see you as a human and not just as a robot.
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Yeah, oh Laura will love that.
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Absolutely.
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That's what differentiates us, right?
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That's right, yeah.
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I hope I hope that she doesn't um be too part of that comment.
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No, no, no, she won't be.
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She'll just thrive on that comment because she says, Yes, that's absolutely right.
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And I I love how you said about the vulnerability piece because I know certainly where we've worked with people over years who are stepping into that manager role for um the first time, um, and maybe even the second time, or they're stepping into a head-of role.
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Um same thing.
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It's sort of whenever you're progressing, right?
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Vulnerability and their confidence are two things that I found have really challenged some people.
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They feel like they can't show their emotion or anything, you know, that's like remotely outside of the box.
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So for you, when you thought about actually, you know what, I need to be human and I need to show my level of vulnerability here.
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How do you decide how deep you go?
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Because I've seen some managers go way too far with their information, and others that haven't given anything.
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How do you find the middle ground?
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I think for me, Debs, it's very much around knowing your own boundaries.
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Nice, yeah.
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And knowing what people are willing to share and not willing to share.
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Yeah.
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And I've seen that in in coaching as well with some people that they really want to go deep into stuff, and you're you kind of think, actually, this is going to trigger me, or this is not going to end in a in a good way, because it might bring up something that's happened.
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So I'm very, very aware of that as well.
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Yeah, um, but just being authentic, you know, being an authentic leader is really important.
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And I've always said this around doing what you say you'll do, not breaking promises.
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And if you can't deliver on something, let that individual know.
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Don't leave them, you know, hanging in the in the background, or he hasn't got back to me, or he's not responded.
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A holding email can have so much power to say, I've read your email, I need to look into it a bit further.
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Can you please bear with me?
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I will come back to you as soon as possible.
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Yeah, and nine times out of ten, that will always always get a positive reaction from people, and it then also that builds your reliability as well as a leader.
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Yes, and people trust you as well, then because you're not trying to hide behind silence or anything like that.
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But so on that, just uh this is another side question.
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Um, how does a young manager even understand that knowledge?
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Where do they get that from if they haven't had a great mentor or haven't watched somebody do it themselves?
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How else can they get that info?
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I think life experiences are really important.
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And just because that you're 18 or 19 or 20 or whatever age you are, your life experiences can prepare you for the majority of things that you go through in life.
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Yeah, true, yeah.
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And just because that you mightn't have the qualification or you didn't go to college to do a degree, and I'm not taking away from anybody that because you know, hats off to you.
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Yeah, I didn't know.
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No, I didn't.
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No, there was couldn't wait to get out of school.
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I was like, I want to earn money, I want to get out there, and you know, and that for me was around just being part of of me being authentic to myself.
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Around I didn't want to do further education because I thought I don't I don't want to.
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I loved school when I was there, but didn't want to continue on on that journey.
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But that's knowing yourself though, as well, isn't it?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But I also think as well, young people, and I you know, I don't like really using that.
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No, I don't like using that, but for this, yeah.
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For the purpose of this, but people stepping into a new leadership role.
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It doesn't matter what age you are, if you can if you've got good communication skills, you care about people, you understand fundamentally what the role is that you're doing, and you're not winging it.
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Um, you know, you can't fake it till you make it, and so in some places.
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No, you definitely can't in some places, yeah.
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I think as well, it's around just having that want for people to do good.
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Yeah, I think that's it.
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And is that how I suppose when you're thinking about when you're working with a younger, newer manager, doesn't it might be 45-year-old, but new into management, let's say that.
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How do you instill belief in them through your coaching and your mentoring?
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I know you lead by example, you practice what you preach, you say you're gonna do it and do it.
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So, but how else do you, I suppose, enable them to be great?
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Yeah, so I I think um micromanaging for me doesn't work.
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No, I think you're right.
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It really doesn't.
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So when you're in that that space where somebody is brand new, yes, you need to be walking alongside them, yeah, but you don't need to be micromanaging them at that stage.
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You need to provide guidance and you need to provide the objective, and you need to say, here's where we need to be.
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Yeah, let me know if you need anything.
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Give the set them up for success, is how I've always um set new managers up.
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Give them that then constant feedback, that reassurance, you know, you're doing a real, really good job.
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Maybe have you thought about it from coming from this angle, or have you considered maybe engaging with another stakeholder or another person um in the team?
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Yeah.
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:19.359
Because it's always great to have that different views, because that's where you then have real collaboration between teams, and that's great.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:22.160
Yeah, that is where you can really get a great output.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.160
Yeah, you do, and and all aiming in the same direction, I think, as well, isn't it?
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:34.799
That knowing the reason we're here is because, and whether that's providing a great customer service or it's giving a service of any sort, because we are in service of others, right?
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:35.440
I always think.
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:37.279
So, how do we do that and do that well?
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:44.880
But I suppose that shift into learning through change, because I suppose learning by from our mistakes is going to help us.
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:57.119
Um, but I would love to know which experiences, the ones you can share, maybe, maybe one or two, um, which experiences or mistakes or unexpected changes shaped you most as a leader?
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.240
Um, and I suppose what did they teach you about yourself?
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:07.200
Yeah, so I think you know, one of the situations that that I felt most uncomfortable at has taught me the most.
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:08.400
Right, yes.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.559
Because they're out of your comfort zone.
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.799
Yes, because that's where you think I've got no idea.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:19.039
I'm willing to learn, and you're never on your own.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:28.240
This is what I always say when you're coaching or leading somebody, you're never on your own because there's always somebody there that can help and guide and support you.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.799
Yes, yeah, to have a network.
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:36.720
Yeah, I think for me, I've learned that avoiding difficult conversations.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:39.920
People don't like them though, do they?
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:40.880
They don't.
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.519
But as a leader, they are necessary.
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:44.640
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:53.680
Conversations are necessary because if you allow behavior to develop and you don't challenge it, it then becomes bigger.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.960
And I've said this before.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:55.839
Yeah, you have.
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:07.200
You know, if if you then show people that actually here's you know what's not maybe great at the moment, how do we then get you to where we where you need to be?
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:10.079
How do you be the best version of you that you can be?
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:11.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:25.839
But avoiding all of those conversations, not providing meaning or providing guidance or or providing actual you know, proper um procedural things.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.559
Yeah, yeah, it can get you in trouble.
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:40.720
Yeah, I mean it does because it grows, Debs, and then that builds into then you know, going into like that topic that we spoke about before around toxicity and toxic teams, yes.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:44.400
Yeah, it does.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:50.559
Part of my part of my leadership is around honest and factual feedback.
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.799
Yeah, it's gotta be real, hasn't it?
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:53.839
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.279
You know, the the Ben model, which I'm a big fan of.
00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:59.759
Yes, you know, remind people what that means.
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:01.680
Behave their emotion needs.
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:02.319
Yes.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:13.839
Uh so that has really helped me supporting those conversations because sometimes you go into those big, big conversations and you kind of you're probably even more nervous than the individual is.
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.359
And that's not, I think.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.720
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:17.759
Yes, yeah.
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:20.240
And I think we've seen we've seen a lot of that, haven't we?
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:29.119
I think with people, I know certainly when we worked together, um, people was that that was one of the things that people would say, how do you have that difficult, difficult conversation?
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:34.960
And I know we were just it's it is a conversation, um, and it's having giving people the confidence.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:43.759
So I suppose when you're thinking about how you then support, you know, one of your managers has got to have a difficult conversation or what they perceive it to be.
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.960
How do you help them get ready for it without being too rehearsed, I suppose?
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:50.480
Absolutely.
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:55.279
I would always sit down with them first and say, talk me through your approach.
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:56.160
Nice.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.759
Tell me how you're going to lead in with the conversation.
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.240
I always think the welfare side of things should always be done first.
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.799
Yeah.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:05.599
I think you're right.
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:06.720
How are you?
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:07.200
Yeah.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:08.559
What's going on?
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:26.079
Setting the conversation up so it's not a surprise, then halfway through, when you start bringing in maybe there's an underperforming area of their performance, then there is no confusion then what the purpose of the conversation is.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:27.759
Yeah, I think I think you're right.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.039
And that setup is key.
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:38.559
It's like contracting in the moment, which you know, I know when we worked on the uh purpose and values workshops uh way back when that was always how we set up the room, wasn't it?
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.599
To so people knew that that's what we were going to do with them.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.359
And I think you're right, even with you know, talking managers through what are you thinking?
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:46.559
Yeah, how might you do that?
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.839
I think is really important.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.279
Um, and I think because people have talent, right?
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.839
And when you think about they've they're in that job for a reason, or they've been promoted into that role for a reason.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:08.960
Um, and when you think about, I suppose, what are you noticing between before I suppose the managers that maybe you looked up to uh and those that are now coming through into management?
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:18.799
What are you noticing about the strengths and potential of I hate the word again, as you said, the younger generations or those, as we always say, on the on the dawn of their careers?
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.039
Um yeah, that's what we normally say.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:25.839
Yeah, what have you noticed with regards to strength and potential that you know difference brings?
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.559
I think difference is really important.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.680
So leadership isn't a one size fits all.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.240
True.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:52.079
It's really not because everybody has a different skill set, someone's got very something different to bring to the table, and being in a leadership role is about adaptability, and I think I see that a lot more now with the crew that are coming in now, yeah.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:59.359
You know, they're they're more around, I want to know how I'm doing, tell me how I'm performing.
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:06.079
But you also see that then around colleagues that have stepped into manager roles.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:06.880
Yeah, sure.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:13.759
Yeah, that they've come from cabin crew, they've moved into you know a leadership role with the within the airline.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.039
That's brilliant.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:21.839
It's absolutely great, but they're hungry for it, they want it because they want change.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.559
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good point, isn't it?
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.640
Yeah, don't want the same old, same old.
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.440
No, no, they want they want to drive change.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:35.519
A lot of a lot of what what I see around behaviors is well, why do we do it like this?
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.839
Yeah, questioning it, yeah, good question.
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:39.119
Which is great.
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:40.880
You know, challenge appropriately.
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.279
I'll always say to my team, challenge appropriately.
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:49.920
Yes, uh ask the right questions, and you might like the answer because it might be a work in progress.
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:50.960
That's fine.
00:24:51.119 --> 00:25:01.440
Yeah, but just know that as long as you're doing what you need to do and you're staying true to yourself, and that really sets them up for being a really great leader.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:02.960
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:08.880
And uh on that point, I suppose, where do you think, and this is you know, your thoughts, we're not gonna hold you to it.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:18.960
Um, organizations or more experienced leaders sometimes misunderstand that to a point, I would say.
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:19.839
Right, cool.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:30.960
Because there's elements of it needs to be done this way because either there's a change coming, yeah, sure, or there's a financial impact if we do change.
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:32.720
Yeah, there's lots of factors.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:35.359
Yeah, okay.
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.359
There's a lot of factors to consider around delivering a change.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:40.160
Yeah.
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:47.680
But being part of the organization, I'm a part of there is a healthy appetite for change.
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:48.880
That's good, yeah.
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:50.319
And I even see it now.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:55.759
I'm part of delivering a change with um our uniform and styling.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:56.799
Oh, okay.
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:57.599
Yeah, okay.
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:13.279
I'm working on with with my colleague, and you you can see that people really want it, they want that clear direction, they want that recognition, they want to know that how they're turning up is representing the brand correctly.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:24.240
We're doing everything that we can to deliver a great service on board because customers expect you know, good good high standards.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:34.720
Um I I don't necessarily think that that is a bad thing to to maybe re-educate um the right way.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:35.759
Yes, yeah.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.839
I think it's the expectation, isn't it?
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.240
As you said, people are paying for that service.
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:51.119
And if you turn up with your scruffy old shirt on, or your hair's all over the place, or you haven't been bothered to put your you know, you got crocs on still, yeah, you wouldn't feel safe with them, would you?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.559
No, absolutely not.
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:57.440
I definitely wouldn't feel safe with a crew member if I was there, oh my god, are they really wearing crocs?
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:00.000
You know, that's like not that they do.
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.640
I haven't seen that, but I just thought that's an extreme, isn't it?
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:02.799
Really?
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:03.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:29.440
Well, I think I think the um the those um that enthusiasm that that I see from new people who have been promoted, it's so infectious because it is they're hungry for it, they want they want the knowledge, and I'm more than happy to share that with them because like I said before, why would you not enable somebody to reach their potential as a leader?
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:37.680
I think that's primarily the the function of a leader, yeah, is to produce more, it's just yes, absolutely, because yeah, it is.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.680
I'm not gonna be around forever, you know, in in a leadership role.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:49.839
And you know, the the new managers that are coming in, there's some real great talent there that's really good.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:52.319
And that's always reassuring to hear, right?
00:27:52.400 --> 00:28:02.240
Because sometimes, you know, people coming out of uni or college or just straight out of school into a job get a bit of a bad rep sometimes because everybody's paint painting them with the same brush.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:11.920
Um, but you're right, there is some incredible talent out there when you look at that and you delve deeper and you don't cast everybody in the same batch.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.279
There is amazing talent.
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:20.559
And I suppose for you as a leader now, how do you, I suppose, encourage those that don't see that talent in people?
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:25.759
So if you think of your peers that just write them off or think, oh, they you know, can't do that.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:31.440
How do you, I suppose, change their mindset to look at them from a different perspective?
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:36.160
I just think I think that younger generations bring an enormous amount of energy.
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.119
Yeah, definitely.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:43.039
Curiosity, willingness to challenge, and the things that have maybe been traditionally have been done in the past.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:59.359
And I think all of those things, when challenged appropriately and within the right environment and the right, the right setting, then that is absolutely that's absolutely okay because we want change because the only constants is change, right?
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:01.599
That's it, that's the what we always say.
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:04.480
Time and change, they're the only things we can rely on.
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:10.480
Yeah, and yeah, I also think as well, it's about saying to thank you for that feedback.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:23.839
That's really valuable to kind of see that from a different perspective because it might be something that we haven't considered as a leadership team to say, actually, no, we actually haven't considered that, or yeah, let's let's try it that way.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:27.839
But their innovation and commitment is incredible.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:34.720
Yeah, that and and I suppose you just made me think about being able to do that for others.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:43.519
There is there has to be a level of emotional intelligence within you, there has to be a level of self-awareness that you know you really well, what you like, what you don't like.
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.400
So you've done work on yourself to understand that.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.480
So you know, therefore, that I'm welcoming that feedback.
00:29:50.720 --> 00:30:03.440
But in our day-to-day job, and I'm not saying you've got them in your organization, but sometimes we see where people aren't willing to listen to any any new ideas, let alone who from whatever generation, because they think they know best.
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:09.519
And it's that can be tricky for a um a new manager coming in to navigate their way through that.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:16.240
So, in your experience, how how have you either helped somebody navigate their way through or how have you done that in the past?
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.160
Because it's quite scary, right?
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:24.960
Yeah, I think questions can be misconstrued as disrespect.
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:26.559
Yes, yes.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:32.079
I really do think that, but yeah, wanting progression can be mistaken for impatience.
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:33.920
Oh, that's cool.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:39.119
Yeah, I really don't think that that is necessarily their intention.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:39.680
No.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:55.839
Going back to those new managers that are in their dawn of their new career, they want to know that their contribution is going to lead to something that is either going to change the organization or enhance the customer experience or do something for the good.
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:56.319
Yeah.
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:01.680
And once you have that buy-in, and we talk about that emotional buy-in when you join an organization.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:16.160
Um, I think if you if you have that emotional buy-in and you're committed to the brand or you're committed to the service that that organization delivers, yeah, then that really does help to build really strong leaders.
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.160
Yeah, I think you're right, actually.
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:18.559
Yeah.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:27.920
And you've got to have a level of understanding of self as to when you know, as you said earlier, when do you when do you lean in, when do you not, when do you ask questions, when do you tell, direct?
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:31.440
And they're all things that you've learned, I suppose.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:35.599
Um, some of it I think comes naturally, having you know had the pleasure of working with you.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:43.119
You can see the impact you have because you naturally have a care, empathetic, wanting people to be the best person they can be.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.839
So it's not about you, but not everybody's like that.
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:52.400
And that's where I suppose sometimes in younger, newer managers, we sometimes see the ego come in a little bit.
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:59.839
Um, and I suppose if you see that in your younger managers, how do you how do you call that out?
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:03.200
I think it's about the language that that you use.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:03.759
Yeah.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:11.119
And again, how you position that conversation is really important because you don't want to dull their enthusiasm.
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:11.680
Yeah.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:16.079
You don't want to turn that creative spark off if that's what they've got.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:27.279
You, you know, you you don't want to say you're not ready for this part, but it's about how do you rephrase that to say, let's look like let's look at what you're ready for.
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:27.680
Yes.
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:29.200
And then build on that.
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:29.839
Yeah.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.920
And that's that, as I say, that is huge emotional intelligence right there, right?
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.440
Because you're not pushing, you're not leaving them, you're not, you're bringing them with you, right?
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:45.519
And they, I suppose, have that level of trust because you do what you say you're going to do when you say it.
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:51.359
And I suppose that builds that trust amongst you and others, and that's what help helps, isn't it?
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.599
Um, and I think how do you get people to believe in themselves more?
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:01.680
Because a lot of people struggle with confidence when they first take on a manager role or leader or head of role.
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:05.119
How do you how do you even get them to believe in themselves?
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.440
So I've always referred back to um your your podcast step to help you for that.
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:21.440
To help you know my team as well, because I can give them a certain amount of coaching, support, development.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:21.680
Yeah.
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:29.599
But to hear from trained people like yourself and Lauren Linz, and you know, all those great people that that that we work with, yeah.
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:35.680
I think it's around setting them up for success and removing that imposter syndrome.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:36.480
Yes.
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:42.559
Which I think is really evident in the first stages of somebody's leadership career.
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:42.799
Yeah.
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:48.720
Because we think I haven't got all the answers, I don't know what I'm doing, I shouldn't be here.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.400
Actually, yes, you should.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:50.880
Yeah.
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:57.920
And I coached somebody through in my last airline who has now moved into my current airline that I made.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:58.960
Oh, brilliant.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.640
Uh, which is amazing.
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:24.880
And I've seen that individual grow from a crew member in a previous airline into the manager that she is now, and to see that development and that passion that I saw, and I thought to myself, there's something there that needs to be brought out and developed in that individual, but didn't necessarily maybe have the right platform at the time to do it.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:26.159
Okay, okay.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:37.840
So, me coming in then to a leadership role, for me, that was one of my success stories because that individual then, after I left that organization, was was like thriving.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:39.519
Yeah, so awesome.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:45.920
And you know, constantly, you know, every time that I speak to her, it's like you made me into the manager that I am now.
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.559
Oh, that makes you feel so proud, like a proud papa bear, isn't it?
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.639
It's like just say that I've been mcabed.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:56.400
She'd be mcabed.
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:57.599
I love that.
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.599
Hey, you'll take that feedback every single day, right?
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:16.400
Well, I think you know, that's really lovely because I don't you never know the impact that you have on people, Deb, absolutely that new stage where they're so receptive to everything that you're saying to them.
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.719
And it's about setting people up for success.
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:19.760
Yeah, it is.
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:20.079
Yeah.
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:34.079
Had I not allowed that individual to make some of the well, I won't say mistakes, but maybe the you know, decisions that that were made, and you kind of think, right, let's take a step back and see how would you do that differently next time.
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:34.719
Yeah.
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:44.159
And that stuff is really powerful because you're not saying you didn't do it right, you had the information that you had at the time, you made a decision based on that.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:44.559
Yeah.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:51.760
However, as the situation grew, it it needed maybe a little bit more of a push that way or this way.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:52.239
Yeah.
00:35:52.480 --> 00:36:02.159
Or not again damping, dampening down their enthusiasm or or making them feel like that they're not not good enough.
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:02.800
Yeah.
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.559
That's a huge thing for me.
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:05.599
We can't do people.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.199
No, you can't do that with people.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:08.800
I'm I'm with you on that one.
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.000
You can't do that.
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:15.920
Everyone brings something, as we always say, and everybody, as you say, you can spot that potential.
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:23.280
Doesn't matter what it looks like, but if you're open to notice and care, like you are, you will spot something with people, right?
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.719
Because I think everybody has something, it's whether you're a good enough leader to even notice that.
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.159
And I think that's what's important.
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:31.840
So, Dave, I know we could chat about this.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.719
I'm going to get you back to talk about imposter syndrome on another episode.
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:41.760
But in the meantime, what advice would you give to your younger self as a new manager stepping in?
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.400
What advice would you have loved to have had yourself?
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.119
So, what advice would you have given to your younger self?
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:52.320
Have the belief in what you can bring.
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:53.519
Yeah.
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:57.599
I think use the experience that that you've gained.
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:03.440
It doesn't whether that's education, whether that's life experience, whatever it is, bring that in.
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.000
Don't let anybody dull your sparkle.
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:09.199
I've always said that, but never ever let them dull your sparkle.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:09.599
Yeah.
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:15.440
Because you will bring something into the team that maybe hasn't been considered.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:22.000
And I always think it's really important to give people a shot at doing things.
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:30.320
Somebody took a shot on me, Debs, and you know, they they said, right, we see something, I want to then repay that.
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:36.639
So that's how I look at myself in the in the past, but also in the future.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:47.280
I mean, I always want to make sure that if somebody wants that opportunity and I can help them get to where they need to be, for me, that's that's a good day at the office.
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:48.559
Oh, that's awesome.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:54.079
And I like that, yeah, because people can dull people's sparkles without realizing they've done it.
00:37:54.239 --> 00:38:03.199
But the fact that you know you you had that opportunity, somebody saw something within you, and that's a great thing to happen because you know what that feels like.
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:08.239
So to give that back to somebody else and pay it forward, I just think is incredible.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:19.679
And you know, I I just love chatting to you about this stuff because you see it from all different angles and you're dealing with all sorts of different, you know, people in the walks of life that you work within now.
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:30.000
And I think it's always nice to have that different perspective on things, and that you know, if you want it and you want to support others and help them grow, why would you not do that?
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.559
Because that to me doesn't make any sense either.
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:37.039
So, Dave, if you were to give us all a call to action, what would you tell us?
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:43.519
I would say be your authentic self when meeting people.
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:44.880
Yeah, love, nice.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.280
Don't let anybody dull that sparkle.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:50.079
I love that.
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.760
I'm gonna I'm gonna write that down.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.559
I'm not gonna get a tattoo on that one, but I'm gonna write it down.
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.079
Don't anybody dole your sparkle by Mr.
00:38:58.159 --> 00:38:58.639
McCabe.
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:01.760
I'm gonna copyright that down.
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:02.719
Yeah, exactly.
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:04.159
Get out there now quickly.
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.320
Oh Dave, it's been an absolute pleasure.
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:12.000
And if people want to reach out to you, where's the best place for them to sort of see a bit more about you?
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:18.639
Um, and if they want to tap into your wisdom, and because you're a safe pair of hands, how might somebody find you?
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.639
LinkedIn, Debbie platform uh to get me on.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.360
Brilliant.
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:27.840
And happy to you know have whatever conversations people want to have.
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:32.639
And you know, if they want to talk a little bit more around this, I'm happy to do that or anything else.
00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:37.199
Um yeah, but you know, it's just caring for people, Debs.
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:38.559
It's it costs nothing.
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:39.760
It does cost nothing.
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.760
I wish more people would do it, but it costs nothing.
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.840
But I mean, as always, Dave, a huge pleasure talking to you.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:58.079
Um, and I know when you know law it will just be flying high, literally, when she hears uh what you had to say, because it so resonates with both of us for sure.
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:06.159
So, as always, I really thank you for your time and um your wisdom, and thank you for giving us your you know your expertise and wisdom, Dave.
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:06.480
Thank you.
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:07.360
Much appreciated.
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:08.480
You're so welcome, Dad.
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:11.039
Any time you take care, see you later.
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:11.840
Thanks again.
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:12.480
Bye.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:20.000
So, Law, tell me, what did you think?
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:30.159
How was the voice for you, and what did you take from listening to his brilliant thoughts, ideas, beliefs, core values, everything about how he shows up?
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:33.280
I am just getting all the feels right now.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:34.559
So thank you, Dave.
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:42.400
I love how he um brings real life um examples that you can, you know, you can sort of visualize yourself being in those situations.
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:52.239
And I particularly love the bit where Dave was saying how questions and questioning people doesn't necessarily mean that you're disrespecting that person.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:41:00.400
And being ambitious doesn't mean that you're being impatient and being vulnerable doesn't undermine your credibility.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:02.719
It's the it's the salt with the caramel.
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:04.880
That's what gives you that human bit.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:05.360
Yes.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:18.480
It means that people can buy into you and and connect with you because they can see that um actually if you're stretching your comfort zone, then that means you're creating a space for them, though, those uh that for themselves to do as well.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.000
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:27.440
And I think also he sort of alluded to the fact that you know, as the leader, new manager, whatever, you don't need to have all the answers.
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:32.559
And that was the bit that really resonated because I think that's a fear that I don't know what I'm doing.
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.239
And he briefly touched on that.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:40.639
Um, and I think it is that bit of we don't need to have all the answers, just be curious, ask questions, be honest.
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:47.199
And I think that you know, that listening to him from when he first became a manager at 21 to where he is now at 37.
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:48.320
No, he's not.
00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:52.639
We had to play around with his ages we went through, as you can hear in uh as you heard.
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:59.440
Yeah, but it's just that you know, creating boundaries around what you can do, what you want to do, how you want to be.
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.760
It it sits within all of us, and I think he's just living proof of that, really.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.079
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:26.320
And I think I'll go first and we'll share this, share the secret, Debs, because I think there is um I I have heard in sort of all sorts of different industries, but almost like a perception of people rolling their eyes about this this new lot coming through, they want to be immediately promoted to director, and and that being seen as a negative.
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:29.840
Take that sparkle and run with it, my friends.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:34.000
Because who are we to squash the ambitions?
00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:39.440
Because then in a parallel room, someone might be saying, Oh, this lot, this young lot, they don't want to work anymore.
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:42.400
So just shift the bias.
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:54.159
We all need to be able to um, you know, get the best out of uh our work life if that's if that's uh you know, some uh position that someone's at, because um, who are we to dull someone's sparkle?
00:42:54.239 --> 00:43:02.559
So I think that ambition, yeah, rather than it creating eye rolls and it and it because people are thinking it means they're disrespecting the system, yeah.
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:05.760
Um that's someone wanting to succeed in that system.
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:09.199
And so, what role do we then have to be able to unlock that talent?
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:14.239
Because going back to something that you know I talk about every now and then, Debs, I promise it's not the robots.
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:14.960
Oh, you're sure?
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:16.960
Oh, I'm waiting for this one then.
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:28.239
But kind of links to it is, you know, as someone that is on the brink of turning 50, I need young people to come into the workforce and generate tax.
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.519
Other there, otherwise, there is no state pension.
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:36.320
No, we have awaiting me in in 25 years or whatever it is.
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:38.320
So uh yeah, bring it on, my friend.
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:46.320
Be ambitious, yeah, ask for more because uh we all need each other to be able to have that you know that kind of uh opportunity mindset.
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:47.119
So thank you, Dave.
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:48.159
No, it was really good.
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:51.840
I think just picking and also Law, I think we all started there, right?
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:56.800
We you know, we weren't born as managers or leaders, we all started somewhere in our career.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.679
And as you said, back when you first started, back when I first started in.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.360
80s, if you didn't have a great role model, you would never learn this stuff.
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:09.119
So why would you not give that back to somebody who's just stepping in and learning and wants to learn?
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.239
Give it to them.
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:11.760
You know, don't have any fear.
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:13.280
They're not gonna run all over you.
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.159
And you know, they want generally a luck sponges.
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:24.400
So if you're supporting them and helping them and giving them that guidance to be the best version of themselves, as Dave said, and I believe, why would you not do that?
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:25.760
It takes nothing.
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:44.639
So get out, as you said, get out of your own bubble and you know, actually look, wake up and smell the roses type thing, and say, actually, that that person has lots of um ambition, curiosity, it's motivating, it's energy driving when you're with somebody who's so enthusiastic, it's like having a new puppy, right?
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:50.480
So, and then we just have to you know enable it to calm down a bit and learn, and that's what you know, that's what it would be.
00:44:50.559 --> 00:45:03.440
So, my sh my call to action would be if somebody is triggering you because you think they're disrespecting the system, or what do they know, they've only been in work two minutes?
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.880
Stop yourself and re-re-center and ask a question.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:22.719
I'm be curious again, back to what we said uh with Andrea, that curious mindset is the your gift to yourself to not judge, and just because you have been there around the block a million and one times, that person hasn't.
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:30.800
So, how can you just hold your thoughts, not judge, and open up to having a great conversation because your birth learned something?
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.119
So that would be, yeah, if it's triggering you, connect with self first.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:36.400
What is that that's triggering you?
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.559
Because it'd be your own insecurities, not theirs.
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:40.960
Oh, mic chop.
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:42.239
Bang.
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:44.480
You think I'm passionate about this topic, Laura?
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:46.239
Oh, yeah, bring it on.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:46.880
Sorry.
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:53.679
So are you telling me that the things that we're judgmental externally tend to be the things that we're less comfortable with internally?
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.039
A hundred percent.
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:56.079
Sorry, Debs.
00:45:56.239 --> 00:46:04.480
Are you telling me that the reason why someone on the brink of turning 50 might roll their eyes at someone who's 21 and got their whole life ahead of them?
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:04.639
Yeah.
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.480
It's because I know yours is like I'm never gonna be 21 again.
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:13.440
No, you're not, and you've got the rest of your life ahead of you, but not that life, if that makes sense.
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:14.000
So yeah.
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:17.039
So it's like, oh, I remember when it's reminiscent.
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:17.599
So yeah.
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:18.480
Yeah.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.039
So nostalgic, not toxic.
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:22.320
Oh, nice.
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:24.079
Oh, that's a good catchphrase.
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.679
Nostalgic, not toxic.
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:30.000
100% a break, yeah, create that mindset as you walk into anything.
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:30.880
Love it, Lau.
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.800
Yeah, are you really 50, Laura?
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:34.079
Are you really I know Debs?
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:34.400
I know.
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.800
Well, with the skincare that I've got, I've got the neck of a 23-year-old.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:47.280
I mean, the uh the the uh the toiletry kit is getting heavier and heavier.
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:48.400
Tell me about it.
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:53.360
It's like, how many potions do you need to like lift and stretch and moisturize?
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:54.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:55.360
It's all good fun though.
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:01.519
Yeah, oh it absolutely is, and it was a three-step routine where I first entered into the world of work, and now it's a minimum seven-step.
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:02.800
Everything seven, yeah.
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:04.320
And it's different for night time.
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:05.840
So there we go.
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:08.159
We're always learning, Laura.
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:08.639
Always learning.
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:09.360
We certainly are.
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:15.760
Every day's a school day, absolutely, and we're the first part of this four-part focus, which is looking at thriving through life stage.
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.679
We had Andrea, who was inviting us to keep a growth mindset.
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:21.199
So every day is school day.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:27.920
We've then had the gorgeous Dave McCabe giving us some words of wisdom around being that first-time manager.
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:35.760
So, as you said, it's not it's not age description, but it's that phase of life um sort of mode when you're doing it for the first time from peer to leader.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:50.079
And I'm really looking forward to the next two topics we're going to be focusing on, Debs, which is sometimes there are some things that happen externally which can create some blips on that planning and that kind of smooth ascent.
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:59.360
And so sometimes we might need to do the zigzag route, or we might need to do things that um might not um be easy to prioritize, but it is what it is.
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:09.519
So I'm so looking forward, Debs, to hear in our second two of this mini-series, which will be looking at handling care commitments and also dealing with setbacks.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:11.119
For example, being made redundant.
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:14.880
What does that then mean in terms of thriving through those life stages?
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:16.239
So super excited for that.
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:18.719
In the meantime, Debs, have a gorgeous week.
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:21.039
You two keep your skincare routine going.
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:26.480
Oh, every day's a seven-step uh routine day, Debs.
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:28.880
Hey, it's moved on from your three, Laura.
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:29.920
Absolutely.
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:30.880
Yes, yes, yes.
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:32.400
And it's trebled in price.
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.119
Yes, um on that note, yeah.
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:37.280
I love you lots.
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.000
You look after me.
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:38.880
I love you.
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:39.440
You two.
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:40.079
Bye.
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.119
We hope you've enjoyed this podcast.
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:46.719
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00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:53.599
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