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The problem that we're already seeing is that, for example, when people use AI, they're basically offloading their responsibilities onto AI.
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And what that means about our brain functioning is that we're reducing the cognitive effort and load.
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The problem with that is that when you're growing and developing, that's not helpful.
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We need that, you know, a certain level of stress that's conducive for learning and for neuroplasticity and for complexity to emerge.
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And without that, if we just writing essays using AI and all that sort of stuff, they're not developing the skills.
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They're not developing the ability to think critically.
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Behind every mission, every movement, and every attempt to create change, there's a human story shaping how it all unfolds.
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I'm Dr.
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Pyle Berry, organizational psychologist and founder of Empathy Storyteller Salon, Disruptive Empathy Experiences, and this is Reframing Perspectives.
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This podcast is for those change makers, those purpose-led founders, nonprofit leaders, growth mindset individuals, and purpose-driven entrepreneurs who believe the work that they're doing in the world should actually make people's lives better.
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Each week, I'm going to be sitting down with these change makers who are shaping impact in their industries and communities.
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And together, we're going to explore the moments, the questions, and the perspective shifts that changed how they lead, how they build relationships, and how they create meaningful change in our world.
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So if you're someone who believes that impact begins with how we show up as human beings, then you're in the right place.
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So let's reframe the way that we see the world and the role that we each play in shaping it.
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Welcome to Reframing Perspectives, the podcast for change makers who believe relationships are the real infrastructure of impact.
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Hello, Aldrich.
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How are you?
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Good, good.
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How are you, Pyle?
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Good.
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It has been for people who are listening, this is such an exciting moment for me because we went, we were in grad school together, finished in 2011, haven't seen each other since, or really talked, not because of any other reason besides just life and whatever it's taken us, and then reconnected.
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And uh, you were always that person in grad school that we knew was gonna go far with the work that you do, the way that your mind works with what you did, um, and to see all the things that you have accomplished and who you've worked with and where you've gotten to be able to go in the inners of.
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And and of course, now the books you've written around it, it's to me, it's of no surprise.
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And it's so exciting to have you here to be able to talk about some of the more elevated consciousness of humanity that is so deeply needed and we're starving for right now.
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So welcome.
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Well, thank you so much for for having me.
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It's a great pleasure to be here talking to you now.
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Your um your journey, you know, I I really was thinking about this that we finished our clinical psych program, our master's in 2011.
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And both of us, and and anyone who goes into the field of psychology is obviously trying to answer the questions about, you know, what is our humanity, what is our human behavior, how do we connect, how do we process the emotional responses that we're having, all of these things.
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You and I actually have another type of connection that is similar as being third culture kids, where we've grown up in multiple different places that have given us a window to understanding a perspective about human values and human behavior that exists that isn't just siloed.
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I'm so curious to dive in directly is that what does that version of you in 2011 now with with the path that you have gone on and through the journey that you have experienced, that training didn't necessarily teach you, but this path and experience of the work and space that you've held has?
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Yeah, that's a very good question.
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Something I I haven't touched on or thought about in a while.
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But uh, you know, I it's really interesting how being a third culture kid, that term is relatively new to me.
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I just learned about it a few months ago, actually.
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Okay, well, welcome to the club.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
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I was like, oh, that's that's what I am.
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Okay.
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But uh, you know, there's a great benefit to it, despite the sort of feelings of of being somewhat lost or feeling like there is no quote unquote really real home base.
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One of the things that I think it it really, at least how it impacted me is it it helped me become very, very flexible in my ability to, well, adapt to different cultures in different settings.
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By being exposed to such different cultures at a young age, it sort of primes your brain to be open-minded, right?
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Which is such a central quality to the work that that we do.
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And so in the beginning, and and I will say it wasn't an easy process, you know, in the beginning, we aren't really aware of at least I wasn't really aware of my cultural identity, nor was it that important to me until stereotypes and all sorts of other pushback, we might say, or racial comments have been thrown out and things of that nature that that tend to emerge through experience.
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And then you become very sharply aware.
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And for me, the first thing that happened was this identification with the dominant culture, right?
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Trying to just blend in, trying to be well, even though I grew up in Costa Rica, it was an international school, it was an American school, and and this, how would I put it?
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Uh it's very westernized, right?
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And so I tried to be very Western, right?
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That was a sort of big draw for me.
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And and I was rejecting my own culture in many ways.
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And eventually what happened was I uh started to recognize the the value of my own culture and my own people as you know, you get older and you become more mature about these matters.
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And then, however, I started rejecting the dominant culture to some extent, you know, thinking, why was I so quote-unquote whitewashed, you know, and you know, rejecting those aspects of myself.
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But, you know, eventually you come to then realize that you don't need to choose one or the other, right?
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And what you can end up doing is integrating those different parts of yourself.
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And you mentioned the word values, and I think that's really what it comes down to.
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What are the central values of the West and you know, the East and wherever you're from that can be integrated into a whole and that can be selectively used in particular environments, right?
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That can benefit your life in some way.
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How do you be adaptive yet genuine?
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And I think that reflects the first one of the first principles of nature, by the way, for the newest book, creativity.
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And to me, that's what I would say how I ended up, you know, really processing it and coming to an outcome that ended up being quite beneficial.
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Yeah.
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I think what what you just really also spoke about so beautifully is talking about this journey that humans have of that, you know, because of the way that our brains function, that we have to choose a category and so that we can make things a little easier for us to be able to process.
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But I think it ties very well into the work that you've done as well to think about that humans have been immigrating and moving for thousands of years.
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So even this evolution of culture, values, and who we are is going to continue to evolve.
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And the more that we create flexibility and the near plasticity just continues to allow us to adapt to recognizing that who I am in this moment as whether it's a third culture kid, whether it's an immigrant, whether it's a person who grew up in the farmlands of Nebraska and then moved to New York City and lives in, you know, one of the most deepest, densest areas, that change in itself is going to then change the next of kin for that individual that's going to change the values and change the evolution of our society.
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But we try to cling so much to what we see as a sign of comfort, which is our traditions, who we are, because this is identity of like what we believe in.
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And so that makes it hard for us to recognize that evolution of how we operate is going to continue to change and evolve and to be more accepting of that.
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But that's something that I think right now in this modern day of life, where we're seeing such rapid paces of change that is really hard for the human brain to understand and wrap our heads around, like we're seeing with AI, and we're seeing with the changes that are happening in our economy, in our world, in our society, and the the the fragmentation that we're having.
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You really bring it all of this back to this one particular argument and point that this all really began 2,500 years ago.
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And I'm so curious to understand that what was it about 2,500 years ago, as that's the marker that this evolution of us as humans starting to move away from us being in one with nature, with us being true to ourselves and our humanity.
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What was it about 2,500 years ago?
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So the 2500 years was actually a little more related to the um the the Taoist philosophical documents that that emerged.
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It actually started even before that.
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The argument would go that it actually began probably around 10,000 BCE with the agricultural revolution.
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Before that, and there are different estimates, but 95 up to 99% of our human history has been spent as hunter-gatherers.
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And that's a very large percentage of our species history.
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And it's a very tiny percentage that would, you know, that we've been living in in the way that we're living today.
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And because of this big difference, one thing to note that just that biologically speaking, we have barely changed since those days.
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Yes, there is such thing as, of course, neuroplasticity and even what we call phenotypic plasticity, which is at a genetic level.
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But nonetheless, there are certain what we call mismatches between the environments that we originally evolved for versus the environment that we are currently inhabiting that leads to all sorts of problems in our our everyday lives and even as a society.
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So what was it that happened?
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Well, the agricultural revolution basically was the beginning of, you know, farming and sedentary living.
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Before that, as hunter-gatherers, as you kind of pointed out, we were nomadic.
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We were always on the move, right?
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And moving from one place to the next.
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And what was consistent with us are the people that surrounded us.
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And that points out all sorts of other important things like the, well, the magnitude of importance of human connection, for example.
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But but let's not jump too far.
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Let's go back to the agricultural revolution.
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We're living sedentary lives all of a sudden.
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People don't have to be moving 20,000 steps a day in order to survive.
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And when that happens, all of a sudden, and if we look at our culture today, actually, the average Westerner is moving about 4,000 steps a day, you know, and there's a huge- I mean sometimes I hit 300 steps a day.
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So that's a win.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So and just to point out that the from a practical perspective, you know, if we look, we don't're not so my book is not about us returning to become hunter-gatherers.
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It's about really integrating the modern with the values from the past, the ancient, ancient past, um, that lots of people are becoming more and more familiar with.
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And and the idea here, right, um, and this is a perfect example, is well, if you look at the science, what is empirically supported, how many steps is it would be ideal?
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And it's usually around 7,000 to 10,000 steps, which is sort of in between how much unfortunately we are walking every day versus what hunter-gatherers tend to average, which other estimates show 14,500 and 18,000, and you know, it differs depending on where we're looking at, but they're all above 4,500s for sure, right?
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And so that's sort of, you know, middle ground is is is a perfect sort of estimate.
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And so, you know, the same thing is happening today with AI, as you pointed out.
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And I think the exact same thing is occurring because we don't one of the, you know, major forces of evolution is is uh is actually the conservation of energy.
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People don't think about that one.
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And what agriculture helped us do is, well, basically conserve our energy because we don't have to move as much anymore.
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But it also led to expanded villages and eventually, you know, cities and and greater and greater and higher populations, more dense populations.
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It leads to more competition, leads to more pressure to perform, it leads to increased disease, it led to malnutrition and all sorts of other consequences that the people who started farming had no idea about, you know, especially at a massive scale.
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And AI is the same thing now.
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It's the same thing.
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We're we're we're in experimenting with something that we are still very, very unaware of in regards to the consequences.
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We're now just figuring out some of them.
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Like for me, I get lots of patients, sometimes kids, who have, for example, no social skills or very poor social skills, right?
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Or people who are in relationships who are unable to argue with each other face to face.
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And instead they're they're sitting next to each other in the room, but they're texting each other on the phone because they can't express themselves.
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They can't regulate their emotions.
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Like these are basic skills that we all learn as we grow up and interact with each other.
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But, you know, uh technology, uh not just AI, even, but the internet and everything has changed the game completely and in fact introduced an entire new dimension of existence, that of the virtual world.
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I'm not sure if I answered your question there on a complete tangent.
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No, no, you absolutely yeah, I you know, but I think that that that's right there is what you're talking about is we haven't changed much biologically from the caveman hunter-gatherer's time.
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Yet our environment and our society has continued to rapidly shift in, especially in, you know, say even since the industrial revolution and since, you know, I always say pre-internet days, the 90s versus the 2000s and again now with AI.
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What at the same time though, the evolution of species in order to exist requires them to continue to shift some to some degree, right?
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To be able to evolve, to be able to then survive in the environment that they're creating.
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And so there's two things happening here.
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We're we're evolving too, we're evolving faster than our bodies are able to adjust.
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And we're not also going to stop evolving the technology because of the societal values that we have placed onto capitalism and whatever it may be.
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So as you're talking about this shift that you see with your patients, with your clients who are limited social skills, where they're not able to argue, they're not able to build relationships, and relationships being such a core part of a necessary survival tactic for humans.
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What do you think that the dangers are of the society that we're creating and starting to really it's unavoidable?
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Yeah.
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So one thing I wanted to comment on, and it actually directly relates to this also the technology is evolving faster than our bodies can match it, right?
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And the idea here, right, is and the problem that we're already seeing is that, for example, when people use AI, they're basically offloading their responsibilities onto AI.
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And what that means about our brain functioning is that we're reducing the cognitive effort and load.
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The problem with that is that when you're growing and developing, that's not helpful.
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We need that, you know, a certain level of stress that's conducive for learning and for neuroplasticity and for complexity to emerge.
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And without that, if we just, you know, students coming up, you know, writing essays using AI and all that sort of stuff, they're not developing the skills.
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They're not developing the ability to think critically, right?
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And so what's the concern?
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The concern is already here, right?
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I think there was a, what was it, Dr.
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Horvath who who spoke out recently, and I think he did like a meta-analysis or a review, and his conclusion basically is that the Flynn effect is is no longer actually um present, whereby people's IQs um were were, you know, 10 years at a time or so were increasing, right?
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But this is the first time where the generation, uh, the upcoming generation seems to be the IQ is seemingly plateaued.
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And so we're we're noticing that and this correlates, uh, pretty sure, directly correlates with the the increase of use of technology in classrooms, right?
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And so it's not that the subject matters have changed or the rigor has even changed.
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I I'm sure lots of people know that these private schools and and other schools, you know, not just private schools, can be can be pretty difficult.
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And there are lots of difficult subjects, but it's it's it it really is seemingly the the use of of all the technology that's reducing our capacity.
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Now, a a really far-out theory that's kind of fun to entertain is that, well, with our ability to create technologies that can act as our memory, that can think for us, that can do all sorts of things for us, the human no longer needs to evolve.
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That evolution suddenly stops and comes to an end because everything is simply offloaded onto technology.
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That's of course, I think, an extreme version.
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I think as humans, we we we face many other pressures.
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Even the kids who who who come in who who who have, you know, let's say reduced emotional regulation skills, they know that their skills are reduced and they're in there for a reason.
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Sometimes it's not even their parents, but they know there's something off and they want to improve.
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So the motivation is there.
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They just don't know why they're unable to, for example, argue in person or why they have to depend on the phone.
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Right.
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So sometimes it's just this lack of awareness.
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And I think that again, integrating some of these older values can be beneficial to help us approach AI and technology with more caution as opposed to being impulsive about the decisions that we make, right?
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Because at the end of the day, it's our attention that is so important.
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I really liked how uh McGillchrist talked about attention as a moral action, that attention is a moral act.
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Like you don't think of it that way usually, right?
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But why is it a moral act?
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It's a moral act because what we attend to ends up defining much of what we learn and can define how things come into being and can define how we experience the present moment, right?
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And with and if we think about technology, everyone's trying to capitalize on our attention, right?
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Sell us products, sell us ideas.
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And so the the issue with that, of course, is if you're attending to all of the BS and all the polarizing information and all the propaganda and and all this sort of stuff, well then, you know, unfortunately, you've you're you're now defined by all sorts of uh misinformation, right?
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And that's a major problem, right?
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Yeah.
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Here's one more cool thing that I thought was interesting.
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I forgot who said this, so I don't know.
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And they mentioned perhaps at one point there's going to be so much false information out there that we cannot rely on anything.
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And so we will all be forced to live like we lived in the, you know, the 80s or or or the the 90s or whatever the case is, where we didn't use AI for everything or where we had to put it aside and so on and so forth.
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I thought that was also a fun idea.
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Well, I think that that's also something really interesting because if we look at what's happening is to your point about, you know, that fun theory that we're gonna stop evolving.
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I think it's actually really interesting that no matter what comes in an op whether it's, you know, you consider obstacle, you consider a technology an obstacle in human evolution or you consider it to be an advancement of whatever, however you consider it.
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I think it's actually really fascinating and interesting to think about how still biologically, even if we consciously are like, yeah, we're we're jumping on this bandwagon for you know the new technology, biologically our bodies know how to course correct.
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And what I mean by that is we're seeing because of this depletion, and I said like I would say dehydration of connection that humans have been struggling with since whether it's with the advent of internet, COVID exasperating that, and now with AI and and whatever it may be, we're seeing an uptick in analog communities.
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We're seeing an uptick in people wanting to connect without their phones.
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We're seeing younger generations actually, you know, going back to vintage.
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I say vintage because it hurts since they think the 1900s or the 80s and 90s is vintage, but you know, really embracing some of those things because and I'm wondering and I'm I'm curious what your take on this is.
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Is that that is it a conscious alert of, oh, I'm going to start engaging in more analog stuff because I'm tired of the technological advances as much as we are in it?
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Or is it more that our bodies are course correcting and saying, like, I need this, we're we're gonna drive this way instead of actually moving into uh the technological pieces that are that are starving us of our connection.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's a wonderful question, and I love how you framed it.
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Because when I think about the mind, I no longer think of it as just our brain, but I do include the body, and that's a very important aspect of intelligence.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.759
We know that there is a gut brain.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:35.039
You know, there are more nerve endings that are sent up to the brain from the gut, and the brain down to the gut, and there's all this communication happening between the two.
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:44.240
We know that if you, you know, alter the microbiota, you can, you know, alter personality and and cognition and even personality.
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:58.160
So I just I say all this because it's it's um the course correction that you speak of, I think, involves both the sort of abstract thoughts that we have and planning and recognition and a hyper awareness of the issues that are now arising.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.759
But again, I think it is also.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.920
So coming from an intuitive sort of moral compass, we could say, that is feeling violated to some extent, right?
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.599
Like it's just not natural for things to be this way.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.400
Right.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:22.880
And so the the the delays of development that we find in individuals' malfunctioning and and self-regulation and so forth, I think, are a combination of of of both.
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:27.599
And that's a a central argument also of of of the book, as you might know.
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:28.160
Yeah.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:45.279
And so when you see this, you know, one of the things that I consider and think about is if we take a specific group of individuals outside of, you know, just us as the larger human species, and we look at change makers, we look at individuals that are working in the thick of psychologists, right?
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.680
People who are out there doing the good work.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:23:09.440
And they're continuously bombarded with the changes that they're having to navigate, the crisis that are now compounded because of the access that we have through technology and what's happening to our brains and the overwhelm.
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:15.119
You know, we'll say it's kind of like when your computer is overheated, it just shuts down.
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.559
And to some you were seeing that in society that's happening.
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:19.759
It's like the shutdown.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.079
But then you've got these individuals that are out there that are working, the activists.
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:41.680
How are you noticing the shift that's happening within them with their gut health, with their, you know, their gut brain, their mind, their consciousness, and the way that they're able to navigate these moments of crisis and these challenges while they're also navigating their own sense of self.
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.920
How are people addressing these these problems that you mentioned?
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:48.400
Yeah, especially the change makers, right?
00:23:48.480 --> 00:24:00.240
The individuals that are working in spaces, ER doctors who are getting a compounded amount of crisis.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:00.720
Yeah.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:10.400
So I don't have a optimistic answer to you about this, because I don't think much change is really happening at a level that I think is deserved.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:21.039
I think that with all this new information that's that's now becoming available, there are people who are making concerted efforts, I think in many different domains of life.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:34.240
But at the same time, there are still a lot of individuals who are, well, rigid and stuck in their own identities and unable to accept realities that that go beyond what they're comfortable with.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.200
Right?
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:52.799
That said, uh, I will say that since the release of the book and and you know getting feedback from many other professionals, there there are lots of other people out there who are really trying hard to make large changes in in society that I think can really help shift us towards a more healthy trajectory.
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.400
And so there are many ways in which people have approached it.
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:01.039
If we were to, for example, touch on mismatch theory as an example.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:13.279
I guess the first question would be what are some of the central mismatches between our species, the way that we live for so long, the way that we originally evolved and the environments we originally evolved for versus how we're living today, right?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.279
And a few things come up.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:20.319
You know, one of them is, as you may have predicted, is social interaction.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:20.880
Right.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:28.480
Another one is really related to the different and within the social interaction, we could say also, is related to uh allo parenting.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:30.000
What's alloparenting?
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:36.240
So so allo parenting is the idea that there are multiple parents for a single child.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:36.799
Right.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:37.119
Okay.
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:43.680
And these days, for example, um, it's very common for two parents to try and raise a child on their own.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.279
The problem with that is that the two parents are usually working.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:51.200
And things, I don't know about you, but are getting very expensive.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.799
And and it costs money to live and to support a child.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.799
It's very easy to burn out as a parent if it's just two people.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.319
We are not used to that condition.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:17.759
Humans, there were there was a study, I think it was looking at Hadza hunter-gatherers in modern day, and I think the proportion was that 60% of the time the child was actually spending time with other parents, whereas 40% of the time they were being spent with their biological parents.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.039
And you might wonder, well, what's the benefit of that, right?
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:27.039
Well, one, the parents don't burn out, in which case they can really spend quality time with their child.
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:34.160
Another thing is that by being exposed to many other parents, it sort of protects them from attachment difficulties.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:38.720
Say if you had crappy, unfortunately, biological parents who aren't very good at parenting.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.400
Well, you have other healthy parents that can be surrogates, we could say.
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.640
Another one is that it improves social skills.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.319
You have to interact with many others.
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.240
And uh by being exposed to many people, you're also exposed to more bacteria.
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.960
And you might think that's a bad thing, but it's a good thing when you're developing because it improves your immune system.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.839
So there are many of these sorts of benefits that play a role in in allo parenting, right?
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.039
So that's like one example of something that's often used.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.480
Movement is an obvious one that we already, we already touched on.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:12.000
We know that the lack of exercise, it's such a deficit that there's so many health problems today.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:29.119
And I, you know, one of the issues talking about gut and brain that I find is that some people, for example, they don't want to exercise or they don't want to like they wouldn't use the word be healthy, but they don't want to go to the gym or or, you know, do things like that because they think it might be superficial.
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.599
But the way that I tell people now is that it's not about superficiality anymore.
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.839
It's it's it's maybe it's a component, but you can go for mental health reasons.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.680
We know it's like one of the best antidepressants that's out there.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:47.440
We also know that it's very healthy for cognitive performance as well as many different health factors, right?
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.720
And so again, this sort of connecting the mind and body.
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.559
And I would also say one more thing here that I think is very important.
00:27:54.799 --> 00:28:05.920
It's the belief that I think the belief that the mind and the body are separate is very unhealthy because it sets somebody up for perpetual conflict, right?
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.680
If we think about the belief system that they're separate, then you stop taking care of your body, right?
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.079
Or you just take care of your body and you don't take care of your mind.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.519
There are those also, right?
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.920
Some might say there's a lot of those in Miami.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.160
But the case is it's important both both ways, right?
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:22.960
Yeah.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:33.920
You will be in perpetual conflict if you think that your mind is where all the purity comes from and and all the amazing decisions you make, and all the bad decisions and all the sin is attributed to the body.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.000
Because you live, you exist in a body, and there's no escaping that, right?
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:39.200
Except for death.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.240
So there's two things here that I want to comment on.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:49.519
First one is someone said this to me a long time ago, and it's always stayed with me, is that we've really reversed the way that we function in our bodies.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:29:01.680
Our bodies are meant to move and our brains are meant to be still, and we've flipped it where we're continuously racing in our minds and we're staying very sedentary in our bodies.
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.440
And so it stayed with me.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:04.799
And I was like, oh my goodness.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:19.200
And so every time you're in that state of anxiety, chaos, and nervousness, it's reminding yourself in that moment that it's because you've literally flipped the function of the way that you're supposed to function in your mind and your body and the connection you have there.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:43.599
And the second piece about this that, you know, I think it's so true and why we have separated that again goes back to capitalism is that the way that the more that we can show people, you know, that you have to function in this individuality of who you are and the way that you operate, the more beneficial it is of buying back your community and buying back all the things that you need.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:30:18.480
But to go back even one step further, when you're talking about allo parenting and that hunter and gatherers, I think this is where, again, I go back to that what we were talking about about the course correction, because what we're also seeing in specifically in the United States, because of how we've gone to, I would say, hyper-individualistic culture, we're seeing a return now where you're seeing more and more, first of all, individuals who are remaining single, child-free, whatever it is, that they are now starting to come together and live in a commune.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:25.599
They're starting to, you're starting to see single mothers come together and live together to raise all of their kids together.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:32.799
You're seeing friends that are buying homes on a compound together and living to be able to take care of each other.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:46.880
So we're seeing this return again of things that are not working in our society and that have been fractured on purpose in order to create and perpetuate the, you know, the markets that and the industries that benefit from it.
00:30:47.039 --> 00:31:03.279
And yet our human craving for connection and our human craving for coming back to society and coming back to community is bringing us into the space where we're seeing younger generations because of our economy, we're seeing younger generations living now in joint families again.
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:08.240
Grandparents are now living with parents and raising their grandchildren.
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:25.119
We and we know that there's a relationship of grandparents living longer lives because of the happiness that they get from being around their grandchildren and grandchildren's actually building more healthier self-esteem because of being around grandparents.
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:32.880
But everything that you're talking about are things that I also just think about as someone who belongs to a collectivist culture.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.440
And, you know, when we think about Indian culture, it is that everyone is raising you.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:50.000
You're in a community that, you know, you see this in other cultures as well, and people talking about that when we were growing up in the 80s and 90s, if another parent yelled at you for doing something wrong, your parent doesn't care.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.880
Like they're like, you probably deserve to get yelled at for that.
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:54.480
You probably did do something wrong.
00:31:54.640 --> 00:32:06.640
And now we've created this helicopter parenting that is how dare you for the and we're building fragility in being able to handle emotional capacity of what you're talking about.
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:25.920
But again, all of this, what you're talking about, the aloe parenting, the, you know, the way that we are functioning in the society, it's like I just continue to go back to what you're saying and the seven principles of nature of we're course correcting ourselves, even without our conscious awareness of it.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:30.559
We are our bodies are asking for it and we are we're having to give into that.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:38.880
And so we're going, I I personally believe that we are moving back into a collaborative, community-centered space.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.920
Because if we don't, I do think that we're going to create extinction for ourselves.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:44.480
Yeah.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:44.960
Yeah.
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.160
Social connection is so, and I loved everything you said, by the way.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:33:11.039
Social connection is so important that we know that, for example, in the brain, when someone is isolated socially for just 10 hours and you put someone in a brain scanner, what they'll find is that these ancient areas called the the midbrain dopamine circuits, those tend to fire, similar to somebody who is fasting for 10 hours and is being exposed to food cues.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:17.759
And so, you know, you know, we know we need food for survival, but we also need social connection for survival.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:25.920
The other fascinating thing that people have found in in studies relates to physical pain and social pain, right?
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:31.920
This idea that, well, someone is being mauled by a bear to death versus somebody is being rejected on social media.
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:39.279
Why is it that the consequences, if the person survived the the mauling of the bear, can be so similar?
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:57.200
And the sense of people feeling so hurt or fearful at the end of the day, well, it's because there's extensive overlap in the regions when someone is so in certain regions, specifically the anterior cingular cortex and the ventral medial prefrontal cortex for the brain nerds out there, when there's someone is socially rejected or when somebody is in physical pain.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:09.519
And um, it helps us better understand why people who are on social media can feel so hurt when, let's say, they don't get enough likes or if they're getting cyberbullied in some way or feeling rejected from the community, right?
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.360
Because our brain registers social rejection as deaf, right, in in severe circumstances.
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:26.320
So um so yeah, I just wanted to make those comments and say that everything that we're talking about right now, by the way, it falls into the first theory of the book that I introduced that I called the sad theory.
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:39.199
And the sad theory, it's not it's not seasonal affective disorder, but it stands for, in this case, separation, alienation, and discord, which are three phases that I use to track how we've strayed from nature.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:54.320
And as you mentioned, there is a lot of intuitive pull back into nature, but there are also lots of stragglers out there and others who aren't feeling that pull, but becoming more and more fragmented from the pull of nature, we'll say, at this point in time.
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:54.719
Right.
00:34:54.800 --> 00:35:13.039
And so this book was intended to empower and maybe bolster people's reasonings for for returning to the a more natural way of living, but also to help convince those who are not to potentially uh see the advantages that are involved with with returning to nature.
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.559
And when I say returning to nature, I mean returning to principles of nature.
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.599
Yeah, can you can you kind of dive into that a little bit?
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:33.119
Because I'm curious that how do you take the world that we have inevitably built and seem to continue to grow into or the path that it is it is moving in?
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:45.360
That if you don't, if you don't line up to this path, then you're ultimately going to, you know, self-destruct yourself in a way, but you're not gonna be part of that society or community for the way that we are moving and how we're moving.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.760
How do we instill these seven principles of nature?
00:35:49.920 --> 00:36:02.239
And how do we return to living in a way that is in alignment with how we are meant to be living in a society, in a world that is not aligned to the way we're supposed to be living?
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:02.800
Right.
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:03.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.519
And that's the golden question.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:11.599
I think the first thing to mention would be to share what the principles of nature are, the ones that I identified.
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:23.360
Sure, there are more, but these are the central ones that came up from a dialogue between classical Taoism, which is an ancient philosophy of nature, which by the way, I'm not viewing it as a religion, just for anyone listening.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:30.639
It's a philosophy the way they approach it, whose principles and way of thinking can be adopted by many different religions out there.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:40.320
So with classical Taoism, neuropsychology, as well as uh hunter-gatherer literature, so I sort of put those in dialogue throughout the book, and this is what I came up with.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:41.920
And it comes up with a great acronym.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.000
The acronym is CPR West.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:37:01.679
And so the C stands for creativity, the P is process, the R is relationship, which we've talked extensively about, uh, and the W for West is wholeness, the E is equilibrium, which is a slightly deceptive word, the S is spontaneity, and the T is transformation.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:17.679
So I was thinking, well, at every single level of analysis, when we think about, you know, from the perspective of physics all the way to biology, from cells to networks to, you know, our minds and so on and so forth, what principles are there, present?
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.920
And those are all principles that I believe are all present within all of those different domains.
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.039
And I provide examples throughout all of these different ways of thinking.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:33.360
So let's just speak about one of these principles, because the return segment is all about elaborating on these principles and and how they actually apply to somebody's life.
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:37.360
So when I say creativity, I think most people tend to think, well, I'm not a creative person.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:41.519
I don't play an instrument or I don't write poetry and I don't dance or something.
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:41.920
Yeah.
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:42.400
Yeah.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.400
So I'm not necessarily talking about that type.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:46.559
I'm not talking about creativity as a quality.
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:49.599
That could be a part of it, a subcomponent for sure.
00:37:49.920 --> 00:38:00.639
But I'm actually even speaking from a more base perspective, that being that we are continually being created and recreated every single moment.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.599
We are in a continual act of creation.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.960
We are in a continual act of becoming, continually changing.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:12.159
And that would mean if you agree that that is a principle of nature, right?
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.920
Then that invites a certain way of being in the world.
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.880
And that invites the way of being that's specifically related to being open, right?
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:22.400
Being open to change.
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:26.639
Change is the action of creativity, is the way that I frame it.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:31.440
And one of the things that I think lots of us face as a major problem is uncertainty.
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:33.440
People are afraid of uncertainty.
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:38.639
You mentioned before, people cling to their identities, they hold on, they're afraid for the change.
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:39.039
Why?
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:42.159
Because it's comfortable and because they're afraid of uncertainty.
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.920
And our brains can react to uncertainty in different ways, right?
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:55.119
The first way, the one that I think most people think of again, amygdala, fight-flight circuitry goes off, and our frontal lobes are seeking for threats all around us, right?
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:55.679
Threat.
00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:01.840
And they think of all these possibilities, all the possibilities being all the negative possibilities, not the positive possibilities, by Right.
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:02.239
Right.
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:10.559
Because we're built for with more we're built to to pay attention more to those than we are built to for for anything else, right?
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:11.039
Yeah.
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:20.239
Well, what's interesting about that, by the way, when we reflect and think about a memory in the past, we tend to think about more negative instances.
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.920
There's a negativity bias.
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:31.840
But when it comes to prospection or simulating future events in general, we actually tend to have a positivity bias because it gives us hope and it keeps us moving forward.
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:32.719
That makes sense.
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:41.599
But in the case of uncertainty, it is certainly true that most people tend to think about the negative possibilities, right?
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:47.599
So what I just shared with you is one way that someone can handle it, not a very productive way, mind you, right?
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:50.159
Because it doesn't really lead us anywhere, right?
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:53.360
Except So what's another way we could approach uncertainty, right?
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:55.920
Well, first, can we look at uncertainty differently?
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:04.639
Change is all about bringing in new information, creating new connections, also letting go of old information and refining, right?
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:06.880
And so let's see what is uncertainty.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:08.320
Well, uncertainty, what does it do?
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:09.679
It makes us more alert.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:14.880
It gives us an open range of more possibilities when we're faced with uncertainty.
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.079
Without uncertainty, there's no adventure in life.
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:24.000
If everything was certain, everything would be predictable and life would be pretty boring, I think, for most people, right?
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:24.480
Yeah.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:32.400
And I like this, and this one comes more as philosoph more philosophical, but some people say that certainty is the death of a question.
00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:36.960
As soon as you know something is true, the question that was asked is gone.
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.320
It's unnecessary.
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:38.960
Right.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:46.480
But there are questions in life that are perhaps more worthy of answering because those questions have multiple answers to them.
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.039
And the answers continue to evolve through time.
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:54.639
Questions like, you know, what is my purpose or, you know, meaning and being and all that sort of fun stuff.
00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:00.239
So uncertainty can set us up definitely for all sorts of advantages in the way that I've already presented it, right?
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.360
And so we can face uncertainty in this perspective.
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.800
And when we are faced with an uncertain event, you can approach it differently.
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:18.559
Instead of viewing the uncertain event with certainty or coming up with your possibilities, approaching it like a curious scientist would approach data as they're making an observation, right?
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:23.280
Just looking at it just as information and energy, and it's coming my way.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:28.239
And I'm just collecting this data that's going to help inform me for my next move.
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:30.719
It's not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:39.199
And when you start approaching it from this perspective, what I call a discovery-oriented approach versus a solution-oriented approach, because there is no solution really in uncertainty.
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:39.440
Right.
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:39.760
Right.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:40.960
It's just too unpredictable.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:41.920
We don't know.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:43.679
There's too many variables involved.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:51.039
And so when you are solution focused, well, it it ends up driving you nuts because you there is no solution to pinpoint.
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.679
Some things we just need to live through, right?
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:55.760
And so that's one of those circumstances.
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:59.760
And when you approach it this way, you find the amygdala starts to quiet.
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:09.199
And you find that the frontal lobes and the amygdala start to have an increased dialogue with each other, a more balanced dialogue as opposed to, you know, both of them freaking out in some way.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:13.119
There's a very wonderful Taoist parable that goes with this, if you don't mind me sharing.
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:14.079
It's very popular.
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:15.280
It's it's short also.
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:20.480
You may have already heard this, but for the audience, if they haven't, it's very useful for a lot of patients of mine.
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:28.559
There was a there's a famous, I'll just say there's a I'm paraphrasing completely, but there is uh a family of diviners.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:31.360
Okay, so they like to make predictions and they're always accurate.
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:36.880
And uh the family of diviners, a father was also a farmer, and he had a beautiful horse, right?
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.280
And this beautiful horse escaped one day.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:44.159
When it escaped, the villagers stopped by and they were expressing their sympathies.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.800
How unfortunate that your horse has left.
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.400
But the father just looked at them and said, This will be great fortune.
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:51.599
This will be good fortune.
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:53.920
And they left scratching their heads, like, what's going on here?
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:54.719
This doesn't make sense.
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.119
And they're like, okay, the guy's just crazy, whatever, right?
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.800
Five days later, the horse comes back with five other wild horses.
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:05.679
And so the villagers stopped by and they say, Wow, this is such a fortunate event.
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:08.000
You have five more horses now to your stock.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:08.880
That's that's amazing.
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:12.559
And the father looks at some and says, This is going to be a calamity.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.079
This is gonna be misfortune.
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:14.960
This is not good.
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.320
They left scratching their heads.
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:18.480
This makes sense again, right?
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:25.280
A month later, the son of the farmer was training one of the horses and gets thrown off the horse and breaks his leg.
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.920
And so the villagers stop by and they're like, We're so sorry to hear that your son broke his leg.
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:33.199
But the father looks at them and says, No, this will be very fortunate.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:34.320
This will be fortunate.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:40.480
A few months into the line, the army came by to recruit, but the son has had a broken leg.
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:41.920
So they didn't recruit the son.
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:48.400
And they realized later that the son would have been recruited to a battle at the frontiers where nine out of ten people died.
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:51.760
And so the villagers stopped by and said, Wow, this is very fortunate.
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.840
And the father looked at them and says, No, no, this is going to be a calamity.
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:56.960
Oh, I love that.
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.840
That's a very that's a beautiful thank you for sharing that.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:11.599
That's really beautiful because it just shares again for every fortune, there's a misfortune, but it's it's all about how you look at things, it's all perspective of how you're looking at that moment and that opportunity.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:30.000
And what I find really interesting in this as well is that those villagers are looking at things just for this instance, and they're not seeing the actual expansive of how does this one moment then influence the ripple effects of life and circumstances that are yet to come.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:34.239
And that predictor model of what it means to create that.
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:40.880
I mean, our human brains also are constantly just hungry, infinite hungry for answers, always.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:58.320
And I find it really interesting to find that balance of, you know, where I'm sure you've dealt with a lot of clients that have high anxiety and are continuously ruminating and ruminating and ruminating and ruminating and don't know how to create that pause for themselves.
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:09.760
And being able to recognize that there are some questions that are okay to be left unanswered and not to have the continuous why, why, why.
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:21.760
And then there's some that instead of asking it from the place of why, it's really understanding what is the, what is the, not what is the cause of this, but what is this now going to create.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:24.320
That's right, it's right on the money.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:26.559
I'll drag it's and we could go on forever.
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:31.519
You know, I think that what you're touching on is something that our society is really starving for right now.
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:40.719
And your book could not have come out at a better time because I think that there is, to your point, I think we are returning back to looking at Eastern philosophies.
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:54.960
When, you know, if we circle back all the way to our beginning of our conversation, talking about being a third culture kid and gravitating to the Western culture and denying our own versus returning to one and then finding some kind of balance or the the gray and the spectrum in that.
00:45:55.199 --> 00:46:12.880
I think one of the pieces of that is recognizing how much, you know, Western society actually has incorporated so much of Eastern philosophies, but just renames it and uh, you know, to make it a little bit more palatable for Western society to accept it.
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:19.360
And so a lot of I think what you mentioned talk about are things that we are seeing already.
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:24.400
We see Ayurveda being called integrative medicine and functional medicine, right?
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:34.719
We're seeing yoga take a next level form of expansion here, you know, mindfulness practices, things that have been there for thousands of years.
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.800
But why is it that the wellness industry has just exploded?
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:44.480
Is because when we look at that, it's we are craving, we are dehydrated.
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:45.360
I'll say that word again.
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:55.760
We are dehydrated for returning back to the way that we are supposed to be, you know, let's call it resetting ourselves back to manufacturer settings.
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:56.079
Yeah.
00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:00.400
And while being able to process the world that we're in.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:02.719
So, Aldric, thank you so much for being here.
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:04.960
Thank you so much for everything you've shared.
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:06.559
Again, we could go on forever.
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:34.880
Definitely want to have you back because I want to talk deeper about just the ramifications when it comes to some of the more challenges that we have as a society when it comes to human suffering and the things that we take for granted and the areas that we're kind of created gaps in, whether it's our healthcare system, our mental health, the things that actually provide humanitarian safety measures and safety nets that we are finding a lot of holes in.
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:35.760
Yeah.
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.760
And the way that our values are moving towards a thing that's in misalignment with it.
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:45.199
But I think what you're talking about in your book, it's phenomenal, it's fantastic, it's timely, it's what we need.
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:50.079
I think it's it's going to help people really find some form of alignment back to themselves.
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:50.960
So thank you so much.
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:52.960
Thank you so much again for having me.
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:54.639
Hi friends.
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:56.400
I have a favor to ask you.
00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:05.519
If you're finding meaning and you're really resonating with these episodes, I'd love if you could subscribe, leave a review, or share it with your friends and family.
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:10.639
Your words help others discover the stories and perspectives that we're exploring over here.
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:20.960
And the more that we grow and the more feedback that we get from you through these reviews, the more we can make sure to create meaningful episodes that you're gonna enjoy.
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:27.440
You have no idea how much it means to me and how much it means to creating these podcast episodes for you.
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:28.719
And I'd appreciate it so much.
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:34.559
So subscribe, follow, leave a review, and share it with your family and friends.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:35.840
Thank you so much.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:09.519
The problem that we're already seeing is that, for example, when people use AI, they're basically offloading their responsibilities onto AI.
00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:16.480
And what that means about our brain functioning is that we're reducing the cognitive effort and load.
00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:20.399
The problem with that is that when you're growing and developing, that's not helpful.
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:28.559
We need that, you know, a certain level of stress that's conducive for learning and for neuroplasticity and for complexity to emerge.
00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:35.600
And without that, if we just writing essays using AI and all that sort of stuff, they're not developing the skills.
00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:38.079
They're not developing the ability to think critically.
00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:46.240
Behind every mission, every movement, and every attempt to create change, there's a human story shaping how it all unfolds.
00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:47.119
I'm Dr.
00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:56.719
Pyle Berry, organizational psychologist and founder of Empathy Storyteller Salon, Disruptive Empathy Experiences, and this is Reframing Perspectives.
00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:09.840
This podcast is for those change makers, those purpose-led founders, nonprofit leaders, growth mindset individuals, and purpose-driven entrepreneurs who believe the work that they're doing in the world should actually make people's lives better.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:17.120
Each week, I'm going to be sitting down with these change makers who are shaping impact in their industries and communities.
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:27.840
And together, we're going to explore the moments, the questions, and the perspective shifts that changed how they lead, how they build relationships, and how they create meaningful change in our world.
00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:34.000
So if you're someone who believes that impact begins with how we show up as human beings, then you're in the right place.
00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.719
So let's reframe the way that we see the world and the role that we each play in shaping it.
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:46.480
Welcome to Reframing Perspectives, the podcast for change makers who believe relationships are the real infrastructure of impact.
00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:47.760
Hello, Aldrich.
00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:48.239
How are you?
00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:48.959
Good, good.
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:49.920
How are you, Pyle?
00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:50.560
Good.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:02:08.960
It has been for people who are listening, this is such an exciting moment for me because we went, we were in grad school together, finished in 2011, haven't seen each other since, or really talked, not because of any other reason besides just life and whatever it's taken us, and then reconnected.
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:27.520
And uh, you were always that person in grad school that we knew was gonna go far with the work that you do, the way that your mind works with what you did, um, and to see all the things that you have accomplished and who you've worked with and where you've gotten to be able to go in the inners of.
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:33.759
And and of course, now the books you've written around it, it's to me, it's of no surprise.
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:45.759
And it's so exciting to have you here to be able to talk about some of the more elevated consciousness of humanity that is so deeply needed and we're starving for right now.
00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:46.400
So welcome.
00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:48.639
Well, thank you so much for for having me.
00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:51.520
It's a great pleasure to be here talking to you now.
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:59.680
Your um your journey, you know, I I really was thinking about this that we finished our clinical psych program, our master's in 2011.
00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:15.039
And both of us, and and anyone who goes into the field of psychology is obviously trying to answer the questions about, you know, what is our humanity, what is our human behavior, how do we connect, how do we process the emotional responses that we're having, all of these things.
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:33.439
You and I actually have another type of connection that is similar as being third culture kids, where we've grown up in multiple different places that have given us a window to understanding a perspective about human values and human behavior that exists that isn't just siloed.
00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:54.960
I'm so curious to dive in directly is that what does that version of you in 2011 now with with the path that you have gone on and through the journey that you have experienced, that training didn't necessarily teach you, but this path and experience of the work and space that you've held has?
00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:56.719
Yeah, that's a very good question.
00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.680
Something I I haven't touched on or thought about in a while.
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But uh, you know, I it's really interesting how being a third culture kid, that term is relatively new to me.
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.719
I just learned about it a few months ago, actually.
00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:10.719
Okay, well, welcome to the club.
00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:13.520
I was like, oh, that's that's what I am.
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Okay.
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:23.439
But uh, you know, there's a great benefit to it, despite the sort of feelings of of being somewhat lost or feeling like there is no quote unquote really real home base.
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One of the things that I think it it really, at least how it impacted me is it it helped me become very, very flexible in my ability to, well, adapt to different cultures in different settings.
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By being exposed to such different cultures at a young age, it sort of primes your brain to be open-minded, right?
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Which is such a central quality to the work that that we do.
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And so in the beginning, and and I will say it wasn't an easy process, you know, in the beginning, we aren't really aware of at least I wasn't really aware of my cultural identity, nor was it that important to me until stereotypes and all sorts of other pushback, we might say, or racial comments have been thrown out and things of that nature that that tend to emerge through experience.
00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.639
And then you become very sharply aware.
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And for me, the first thing that happened was this identification with the dominant culture, right?
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:25.040
Trying to just blend in, trying to be well, even though I grew up in Costa Rica, it was an international school, it was an American school, and and this, how would I put it?
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Uh it's very westernized, right?
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And so I tried to be very Western, right?
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That was a sort of big draw for me.
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And and I was rejecting my own culture in many ways.
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And eventually what happened was I uh started to recognize the the value of my own culture and my own people as you know, you get older and you become more mature about these matters.
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And then, however, I started rejecting the dominant culture to some extent, you know, thinking, why was I so quote-unquote whitewashed, you know, and you know, rejecting those aspects of myself.
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But, you know, eventually you come to then realize that you don't need to choose one or the other, right?
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And what you can end up doing is integrating those different parts of yourself.
00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:10.879
And you mentioned the word values, and I think that's really what it comes down to.
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:22.560
What are the central values of the West and you know, the East and wherever you're from that can be integrated into a whole and that can be selectively used in particular environments, right?
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That can benefit your life in some way.
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How do you be adaptive yet genuine?
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And I think that reflects the first one of the first principles of nature, by the way, for the newest book, creativity.
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And to me, that's what I would say how I ended up, you know, really processing it and coming to an outcome that ended up being quite beneficial.
00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:42.480
Yeah.
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I think what what you just really also spoke about so beautifully is talking about this journey that humans have of that, you know, because of the way that our brains function, that we have to choose a category and so that we can make things a little easier for us to be able to process.
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:12.240
But I think it ties very well into the work that you've done as well to think about that humans have been immigrating and moving for thousands of years.
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So even this evolution of culture, values, and who we are is going to continue to evolve.
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And the more that we create flexibility and the near plasticity just continues to allow us to adapt to recognizing that who I am in this moment as whether it's a third culture kid, whether it's an immigrant, whether it's a person who grew up in the farmlands of Nebraska and then moved to New York City and lives in, you know, one of the most deepest, densest areas, that change in itself is going to then change the next of kin for that individual that's going to change the values and change the evolution of our society.
00:07:52.800 --> 00:08:03.600
But we try to cling so much to what we see as a sign of comfort, which is our traditions, who we are, because this is identity of like what we believe in.
00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:14.720
And so that makes it hard for us to recognize that evolution of how we operate is going to continue to change and evolve and to be more accepting of that.
00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:36.720
But that's something that I think right now in this modern day of life, where we're seeing such rapid paces of change that is really hard for the human brain to understand and wrap our heads around, like we're seeing with AI, and we're seeing with the changes that are happening in our economy, in our world, in our society, and the the the fragmentation that we're having.
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:46.080
You really bring it all of this back to this one particular argument and point that this all really began 2,500 years ago.
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And I'm so curious to understand that what was it about 2,500 years ago, as that's the marker that this evolution of us as humans starting to move away from us being in one with nature, with us being true to ourselves and our humanity.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:07.759
What was it about 2,500 years ago?
00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:16.879
So the 2500 years was actually a little more related to the um the the Taoist philosophical documents that that emerged.
00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:18.720
It actually started even before that.
00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:26.080
The argument would go that it actually began probably around 10,000 BCE with the agricultural revolution.
00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:33.840
Before that, and there are different estimates, but 95 up to 99% of our human history has been spent as hunter-gatherers.
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.440
And that's a very large percentage of our species history.
00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:44.320
And it's a very tiny percentage that would, you know, that we've been living in in the way that we're living today.
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:51.919
And because of this big difference, one thing to note that just that biologically speaking, we have barely changed since those days.
00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:59.600
Yes, there is such thing as, of course, neuroplasticity and even what we call phenotypic plasticity, which is at a genetic level.
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:15.440
But nonetheless, there are certain what we call mismatches between the environments that we originally evolved for versus the environment that we are currently inhabiting that leads to all sorts of problems in our our everyday lives and even as a society.
00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:16.879
So what was it that happened?
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:22.879
Well, the agricultural revolution basically was the beginning of, you know, farming and sedentary living.
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:27.039
Before that, as hunter-gatherers, as you kind of pointed out, we were nomadic.
00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.440
We were always on the move, right?
00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:31.759
And moving from one place to the next.
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.039
And what was consistent with us are the people that surrounded us.
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:42.799
And that points out all sorts of other important things like the, well, the magnitude of importance of human connection, for example.
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:44.559
But but let's not jump too far.
00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:46.559
Let's go back to the agricultural revolution.
00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:48.879
We're living sedentary lives all of a sudden.
00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:53.759
People don't have to be moving 20,000 steps a day in order to survive.
00:10:53.919 --> 00:11:06.080
And when that happens, all of a sudden, and if we look at our culture today, actually, the average Westerner is moving about 4,000 steps a day, you know, and there's a huge- I mean sometimes I hit 300 steps a day.
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.519
So that's a win.
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:08.240
Yeah.
00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:08.720
Yeah.
00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:17.360
So and just to point out that the from a practical perspective, you know, if we look, we don't're not so my book is not about us returning to become hunter-gatherers.
00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:25.600
It's about really integrating the modern with the values from the past, the ancient, ancient past, um, that lots of people are becoming more and more familiar with.
00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:33.679
And and the idea here, right, um, and this is a perfect example, is well, if you look at the science, what is empirically supported, how many steps is it would be ideal?
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:54.080
And it's usually around 7,000 to 10,000 steps, which is sort of in between how much unfortunately we are walking every day versus what hunter-gatherers tend to average, which other estimates show 14,500 and 18,000, and you know, it differs depending on where we're looking at, but they're all above 4,500s for sure, right?
00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.919
And so that's sort of, you know, middle ground is is is a perfect sort of estimate.
00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:02.480
And so, you know, the same thing is happening today with AI, as you pointed out.
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:11.440
And I think the exact same thing is occurring because we don't one of the, you know, major forces of evolution is is uh is actually the conservation of energy.
00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:12.879
People don't think about that one.
00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:18.080
And what agriculture helped us do is, well, basically conserve our energy because we don't have to move as much anymore.
00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:26.159
But it also led to expanded villages and eventually, you know, cities and and greater and greater and higher populations, more dense populations.
00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:41.200
It leads to more competition, leads to more pressure to perform, it leads to increased disease, it led to malnutrition and all sorts of other consequences that the people who started farming had no idea about, you know, especially at a massive scale.
00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:42.879
And AI is the same thing now.
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:44.000
It's the same thing.
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:52.399
We're we're we're in experimenting with something that we are still very, very unaware of in regards to the consequences.
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:54.480
We're now just figuring out some of them.
00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:04.240
Like for me, I get lots of patients, sometimes kids, who have, for example, no social skills or very poor social skills, right?
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.480
Or people who are in relationships who are unable to argue with each other face to face.
00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:15.039
And instead they're they're sitting next to each other in the room, but they're texting each other on the phone because they can't express themselves.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:16.399
They can't regulate their emotions.
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.600
Like these are basic skills that we all learn as we grow up and interact with each other.
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:33.279
But, you know, uh technology, uh not just AI, even, but the internet and everything has changed the game completely and in fact introduced an entire new dimension of existence, that of the virtual world.
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:36.879
I'm not sure if I answered your question there on a complete tangent.
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:49.679
No, no, you absolutely yeah, I you know, but I think that that that's right there is what you're talking about is we haven't changed much biologically from the caveman hunter-gatherer's time.
00:13:50.320 --> 00:14:06.240
Yet our environment and our society has continued to rapidly shift in, especially in, you know, say even since the industrial revolution and since, you know, I always say pre-internet days, the 90s versus the 2000s and again now with AI.
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:16.240
What at the same time though, the evolution of species in order to exist requires them to continue to shift some to some degree, right?
00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:21.440
To be able to evolve, to be able to then survive in the environment that they're creating.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:23.360
And so there's two things happening here.
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:30.159
We're we're evolving too, we're evolving faster than our bodies are able to adjust.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:38.879
And we're not also going to stop evolving the technology because of the societal values that we have placed onto capitalism and whatever it may be.
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:57.039
So as you're talking about this shift that you see with your patients, with your clients who are limited social skills, where they're not able to argue, they're not able to build relationships, and relationships being such a core part of a necessary survival tactic for humans.
00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:05.200
What do you think that the dangers are of the society that we're creating and starting to really it's unavoidable?
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:05.759
Yeah.
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:13.919
So one thing I wanted to comment on, and it actually directly relates to this also the technology is evolving faster than our bodies can match it, right?
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:26.399
And the idea here, right, is and the problem that we're already seeing is that, for example, when people use AI, they're basically offloading their responsibilities onto AI.
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:32.240
And what that means about our brain functioning is that we're reducing the cognitive effort and load.
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.879
The problem with that is that when you're growing and developing, that's not helpful.
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:45.440
We need that, you know, a certain level of stress that's conducive for learning and for neuroplasticity and for complexity to emerge.
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:54.399
And without that, if we just, you know, students coming up, you know, writing essays using AI and all that sort of stuff, they're not developing the skills.
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.200
They're not developing the ability to think critically, right?
00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:58.879
And so what's the concern?
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:00.720
The concern is already here, right?
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:02.960
I think there was a, what was it, Dr.
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:20.720
Horvath who who spoke out recently, and I think he did like a meta-analysis or a review, and his conclusion basically is that the Flynn effect is is no longer actually um present, whereby people's IQs um were were, you know, 10 years at a time or so were increasing, right?
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:27.759
But this is the first time where the generation, uh, the upcoming generation seems to be the IQ is seemingly plateaued.
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:36.960
And so we're we're noticing that and this correlates, uh, pretty sure, directly correlates with the the increase of use of technology in classrooms, right?
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.039
And so it's not that the subject matters have changed or the rigor has even changed.
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:48.320
I I'm sure lots of people know that these private schools and and other schools, you know, not just private schools, can be can be pretty difficult.
00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:56.399
And there are lots of difficult subjects, but it's it's it it really is seemingly the the use of of all the technology that's reducing our capacity.
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:11.759
Now, a a really far-out theory that's kind of fun to entertain is that, well, with our ability to create technologies that can act as our memory, that can think for us, that can do all sorts of things for us, the human no longer needs to evolve.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:17.759
That evolution suddenly stops and comes to an end because everything is simply offloaded onto technology.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:19.920
That's of course, I think, an extreme version.
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.720
I think as humans, we we we face many other pressures.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:31.440
Even the kids who who who come in who who who have, you know, let's say reduced emotional regulation skills, they know that their skills are reduced and they're in there for a reason.
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:35.599
Sometimes it's not even their parents, but they know there's something off and they want to improve.
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:37.039
So the motivation is there.
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:42.880
They just don't know why they're unable to, for example, argue in person or why they have to depend on the phone.
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:43.519
Right.
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.160
So sometimes it's just this lack of awareness.
00:17:46.319 --> 00:18:00.480
And I think that again, integrating some of these older values can be beneficial to help us approach AI and technology with more caution as opposed to being impulsive about the decisions that we make, right?
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.799
Because at the end of the day, it's our attention that is so important.
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:11.839
I really liked how uh McGillchrist talked about attention as a moral action, that attention is a moral act.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.000
Like you don't think of it that way usually, right?
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.680
But why is it a moral act?
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:26.880
It's a moral act because what we attend to ends up defining much of what we learn and can define how things come into being and can define how we experience the present moment, right?
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:31.359
And with and if we think about technology, everyone's trying to capitalize on our attention, right?
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:33.839
Sell us products, sell us ideas.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:49.599
And so the the issue with that, of course, is if you're attending to all of the BS and all the polarizing information and all the propaganda and and all this sort of stuff, well then, you know, unfortunately, you've you're you're now defined by all sorts of uh misinformation, right?
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.359
And that's a major problem, right?
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:51.599
Yeah.
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:53.920
Here's one more cool thing that I thought was interesting.
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.079
I forgot who said this, so I don't know.
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:03.200
And they mentioned perhaps at one point there's going to be so much false information out there that we cannot rely on anything.
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:16.400
And so we will all be forced to live like we lived in the, you know, the 80s or or or the the 90s or whatever the case is, where we didn't use AI for everything or where we had to put it aside and so on and so forth.
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.799
I thought that was also a fun idea.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:30.160
Well, I think that that's also something really interesting because if we look at what's happening is to your point about, you know, that fun theory that we're gonna stop evolving.
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:43.359
I think it's actually really interesting that no matter what comes in an op whether it's, you know, you consider obstacle, you consider a technology an obstacle in human evolution or you consider it to be an advancement of whatever, however you consider it.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:57.279
I think it's actually really fascinating and interesting to think about how still biologically, even if we consciously are like, yeah, we're we're jumping on this bandwagon for you know the new technology, biologically our bodies know how to course correct.
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:20.799
And what I mean by that is we're seeing because of this depletion, and I said like I would say dehydration of connection that humans have been struggling with since whether it's with the advent of internet, COVID exasperating that, and now with AI and and whatever it may be, we're seeing an uptick in analog communities.
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:26.319
We're seeing an uptick in people wanting to connect without their phones.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:31.599
We're seeing younger generations actually, you know, going back to vintage.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:44.480
I say vintage because it hurts since they think the 1900s or the 80s and 90s is vintage, but you know, really embracing some of those things because and I'm wondering and I'm I'm curious what your take on this is.
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:56.960
Is that that is it a conscious alert of, oh, I'm going to start engaging in more analog stuff because I'm tired of the technological advances as much as we are in it?
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:12.000
Or is it more that our bodies are course correcting and saying, like, I need this, we're we're gonna drive this way instead of actually moving into uh the technological pieces that are that are starving us of our connection.
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:13.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.079
That's a wonderful question, and I love how you framed it.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:25.279
Because when I think about the mind, I no longer think of it as just our brain, but I do include the body, and that's a very important aspect of intelligence.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.759
We know that there is a gut brain.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:35.039
You know, there are more nerve endings that are sent up to the brain from the gut, and the brain down to the gut, and there's all this communication happening between the two.
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:44.240
We know that if you, you know, alter the microbiota, you can, you know, alter personality and and cognition and even personality.
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:58.160
So I just I say all this because it's it's um the course correction that you speak of, I think, involves both the sort of abstract thoughts that we have and planning and recognition and a hyper awareness of the issues that are now arising.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.759
But again, I think it is also.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.920
So coming from an intuitive sort of moral compass, we could say, that is feeling violated to some extent, right?
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.599
Like it's just not natural for things to be this way.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.400
Right.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:22.880
And so the the the delays of development that we find in individuals' malfunctioning and and self-regulation and so forth, I think, are a combination of of of both.
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:27.599
And that's a a central argument also of of of the book, as you might know.
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:28.160
Yeah.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:45.279
And so when you see this, you know, one of the things that I consider and think about is if we take a specific group of individuals outside of, you know, just us as the larger human species, and we look at change makers, we look at individuals that are working in the thick of psychologists, right?
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.680
People who are out there doing the good work.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:23:09.440
And they're continuously bombarded with the changes that they're having to navigate, the crisis that are now compounded because of the access that we have through technology and what's happening to our brains and the overwhelm.
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:15.119
You know, we'll say it's kind of like when your computer is overheated, it just shuts down.
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.559
And to some you were seeing that in society that's happening.
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:19.759
It's like the shutdown.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.079
But then you've got these individuals that are out there that are working, the activists.
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:41.680
How are you noticing the shift that's happening within them with their gut health, with their, you know, their gut brain, their mind, their consciousness, and the way that they're able to navigate these moments of crisis and these challenges while they're also navigating their own sense of self.
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.920
How are people addressing these these problems that you mentioned?
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:48.400
Yeah, especially the change makers, right?
00:23:48.480 --> 00:24:00.240
The individuals that are working in spaces, ER doctors who are getting a compounded amount of crisis.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:00.720
Yeah.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:10.400
So I don't have a optimistic answer to you about this, because I don't think much change is really happening at a level that I think is deserved.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:21.039
I think that with all this new information that's that's now becoming available, there are people who are making concerted efforts, I think in many different domains of life.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:34.240
But at the same time, there are still a lot of individuals who are, well, rigid and stuck in their own identities and unable to accept realities that that go beyond what they're comfortable with.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.200
Right?
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:52.799
That said, uh, I will say that since the release of the book and and you know getting feedback from many other professionals, there there are lots of other people out there who are really trying hard to make large changes in in society that I think can really help shift us towards a more healthy trajectory.
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.400
And so there are many ways in which people have approached it.
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:01.039
If we were to, for example, touch on mismatch theory as an example.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:13.279
I guess the first question would be what are some of the central mismatches between our species, the way that we live for so long, the way that we originally evolved and the environments we originally evolved for versus how we're living today, right?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.279
And a few things come up.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:20.319
You know, one of them is, as you may have predicted, is social interaction.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:20.880
Right.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:28.480
Another one is really related to the different and within the social interaction, we could say also, is related to uh allo parenting.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:30.000
What's alloparenting?
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:36.240
So so allo parenting is the idea that there are multiple parents for a single child.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:36.799
Right.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:37.119
Okay.
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:43.680
And these days, for example, um, it's very common for two parents to try and raise a child on their own.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.279
The problem with that is that the two parents are usually working.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:51.200
And things, I don't know about you, but are getting very expensive.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.799
And and it costs money to live and to support a child.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.799
It's very easy to burn out as a parent if it's just two people.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.319
We are not used to that condition.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:17.759
Humans, there were there was a study, I think it was looking at Hadza hunter-gatherers in modern day, and I think the proportion was that 60% of the time the child was actually spending time with other parents, whereas 40% of the time they were being spent with their biological parents.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.039
And you might wonder, well, what's the benefit of that, right?
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:27.039
Well, one, the parents don't burn out, in which case they can really spend quality time with their child.
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:34.160
Another thing is that by being exposed to many other parents, it sort of protects them from attachment difficulties.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:38.720
Say if you had crappy, unfortunately, biological parents who aren't very good at parenting.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.400
Well, you have other healthy parents that can be surrogates, we could say.
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.640
Another one is that it improves social skills.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.319
You have to interact with many others.
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.240
And uh by being exposed to many people, you're also exposed to more bacteria.
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.960
And you might think that's a bad thing, but it's a good thing when you're developing because it improves your immune system.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.839
So there are many of these sorts of benefits that play a role in in allo parenting, right?
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.039
So that's like one example of something that's often used.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.480
Movement is an obvious one that we already, we already touched on.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:12.000
We know that the lack of exercise, it's such a deficit that there's so many health problems today.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:29.119
And I, you know, one of the issues talking about gut and brain that I find is that some people, for example, they don't want to exercise or they don't want to like they wouldn't use the word be healthy, but they don't want to go to the gym or or, you know, do things like that because they think it might be superficial.
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.599
But the way that I tell people now is that it's not about superficiality anymore.
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.839
It's it's it's maybe it's a component, but you can go for mental health reasons.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.680
We know it's like one of the best antidepressants that's out there.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:47.440
We also know that it's very healthy for cognitive performance as well as many different health factors, right?
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.720
And so again, this sort of connecting the mind and body.
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.559
And I would also say one more thing here that I think is very important.
00:27:54.799 --> 00:28:05.920
It's the belief that I think the belief that the mind and the body are separate is very unhealthy because it sets somebody up for perpetual conflict, right?
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.680
If we think about the belief system that they're separate, then you stop taking care of your body, right?
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.079
Or you just take care of your body and you don't take care of your mind.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.519
There are those also, right?
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.920
Some might say there's a lot of those in Miami.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.160
But the case is it's important both both ways, right?
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:22.960
Yeah.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:33.920
You will be in perpetual conflict if you think that your mind is where all the purity comes from and and all the amazing decisions you make, and all the bad decisions and all the sin is attributed to the body.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.000
Because you live, you exist in a body, and there's no escaping that, right?
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:39.200
Except for death.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.240
So there's two things here that I want to comment on.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:49.519
First one is someone said this to me a long time ago, and it's always stayed with me, is that we've really reversed the way that we function in our bodies.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:29:01.680
Our bodies are meant to move and our brains are meant to be still, and we've flipped it where we're continuously racing in our minds and we're staying very sedentary in our bodies.
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.440
And so it stayed with me.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:04.799
And I was like, oh my goodness.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:19.200
And so every time you're in that state of anxiety, chaos, and nervousness, it's reminding yourself in that moment that it's because you've literally flipped the function of the way that you're supposed to function in your mind and your body and the connection you have there.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:43.599
And the second piece about this that, you know, I think it's so true and why we have separated that again goes back to capitalism is that the way that the more that we can show people, you know, that you have to function in this individuality of who you are and the way that you operate, the more beneficial it is of buying back your community and buying back all the things that you need.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:30:18.480
But to go back even one step further, when you're talking about allo parenting and that hunter and gatherers, I think this is where, again, I go back to that what we were talking about about the course correction, because what we're also seeing in specifically in the United States, because of how we've gone to, I would say, hyper-individualistic culture, we're seeing a return now where you're seeing more and more, first of all, individuals who are remaining single, child-free, whatever it is, that they are now starting to come together and live in a commune.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:25.599
They're starting to, you're starting to see single mothers come together and live together to raise all of their kids together.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:32.799
You're seeing friends that are buying homes on a compound together and living to be able to take care of each other.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:46.880
So we're seeing this return again of things that are not working in our society and that have been fractured on purpose in order to create and perpetuate the, you know, the markets that and the industries that benefit from it.
00:30:47.039 --> 00:31:03.279
And yet our human craving for connection and our human craving for coming back to society and coming back to community is bringing us into the space where we're seeing younger generations because of our economy, we're seeing younger generations living now in joint families again.
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:08.240
Grandparents are now living with parents and raising their grandchildren.
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:25.119
We and we know that there's a relationship of grandparents living longer lives because of the happiness that they get from being around their grandchildren and grandchildren's actually building more healthier self-esteem because of being around grandparents.
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:32.880
But everything that you're talking about are things that I also just think about as someone who belongs to a collectivist culture.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.440
And, you know, when we think about Indian culture, it is that everyone is raising you.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:50.000
You're in a community that, you know, you see this in other cultures as well, and people talking about that when we were growing up in the 80s and 90s, if another parent yelled at you for doing something wrong, your parent doesn't care.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.880
Like they're like, you probably deserve to get yelled at for that.
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:54.480
You probably did do something wrong.
00:31:54.640 --> 00:32:06.640
And now we've created this helicopter parenting that is how dare you for the and we're building fragility in being able to handle emotional capacity of what you're talking about.
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:25.920
But again, all of this, what you're talking about, the aloe parenting, the, you know, the way that we are functioning in the society, it's like I just continue to go back to what you're saying and the seven principles of nature of we're course correcting ourselves, even without our conscious awareness of it.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:30.559
We are our bodies are asking for it and we are we're having to give into that.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:38.880
And so we're going, I I personally believe that we are moving back into a collaborative, community-centered space.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.920
Because if we don't, I do think that we're going to create extinction for ourselves.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:44.480
Yeah.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:44.960
Yeah.
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.160
Social connection is so, and I loved everything you said, by the way.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:33:11.039
Social connection is so important that we know that, for example, in the brain, when someone is isolated socially for just 10 hours and you put someone in a brain scanner, what they'll find is that these ancient areas called the the midbrain dopamine circuits, those tend to fire, similar to somebody who is fasting for 10 hours and is being exposed to food cues.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:17.759
And so, you know, you know, we know we need food for survival, but we also need social connection for survival.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:25.920
The other fascinating thing that people have found in in studies relates to physical pain and social pain, right?
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:31.920
This idea that, well, someone is being mauled by a bear to death versus somebody is being rejected on social media.
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:39.279
Why is it that the consequences, if the person survived the the mauling of the bear, can be so similar?
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:57.200
And the sense of people feeling so hurt or fearful at the end of the day, well, it's because there's extensive overlap in the regions when someone is so in certain regions, specifically the anterior cingular cortex and the ventral medial prefrontal cortex for the brain nerds out there, when there's someone is socially rejected or when somebody is in physical pain.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:09.519
And um, it helps us better understand why people who are on social media can feel so hurt when, let's say, they don't get enough likes or if they're getting cyberbullied in some way or feeling rejected from the community, right?
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.360
Because our brain registers social rejection as deaf, right, in in severe circumstances.
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:26.320
So um so yeah, I just wanted to make those comments and say that everything that we're talking about right now, by the way, it falls into the first theory of the book that I introduced that I called the sad theory.
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:39.199
And the sad theory, it's not it's not seasonal affective disorder, but it stands for, in this case, separation, alienation, and discord, which are three phases that I use to track how we've strayed from nature.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:54.320
And as you mentioned, there is a lot of intuitive pull back into nature, but there are also lots of stragglers out there and others who aren't feeling that pull, but becoming more and more fragmented from the pull of nature, we'll say, at this point in time.
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:54.719
Right.
00:34:54.800 --> 00:35:13.039
And so this book was intended to empower and maybe bolster people's reasonings for for returning to the a more natural way of living, but also to help convince those who are not to potentially uh see the advantages that are involved with with returning to nature.
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.559
And when I say returning to nature, I mean returning to principles of nature.
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.599
Yeah, can you can you kind of dive into that a little bit?
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:33.119
Because I'm curious that how do you take the world that we have inevitably built and seem to continue to grow into or the path that it is it is moving in?
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:45.360
That if you don't, if you don't line up to this path, then you're ultimately going to, you know, self-destruct yourself in a way, but you're not gonna be part of that society or community for the way that we are moving and how we're moving.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.760
How do we instill these seven principles of nature?
00:35:49.920 --> 00:36:02.239
And how do we return to living in a way that is in alignment with how we are meant to be living in a society, in a world that is not aligned to the way we're supposed to be living?
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:02.800
Right.
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:03.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.519
And that's the golden question.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:11.599
I think the first thing to mention would be to share what the principles of nature are, the ones that I identified.
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:23.360
Sure, there are more, but these are the central ones that came up from a dialogue between classical Taoism, which is an ancient philosophy of nature, which by the way, I'm not viewing it as a religion, just for anyone listening.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:30.639
It's a philosophy the way they approach it, whose principles and way of thinking can be adopted by many different religions out there.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:40.320
So with classical Taoism, neuropsychology, as well as uh hunter-gatherer literature, so I sort of put those in dialogue throughout the book, and this is what I came up with.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:41.920
And it comes up with a great acronym.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.000
The acronym is CPR West.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:37:01.679
And so the C stands for creativity, the P is process, the R is relationship, which we've talked extensively about, uh, and the W for West is wholeness, the E is equilibrium, which is a slightly deceptive word, the S is spontaneity, and the T is transformation.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:17.679
So I was thinking, well, at every single level of analysis, when we think about, you know, from the perspective of physics all the way to biology, from cells to networks to, you know, our minds and so on and so forth, what principles are there, present?
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.920
And those are all principles that I believe are all present within all of those different domains.
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.039
And I provide examples throughout all of these different ways of thinking.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:33.360
So let's just speak about one of these principles, because the return segment is all about elaborating on these principles and and how they actually apply to somebody's life.
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:37.360
So when I say creativity, I think most people tend to think, well, I'm not a creative person.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:41.519
I don't play an instrument or I don't write poetry and I don't dance or something.
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:41.920
Yeah.
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:42.400
Yeah.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.400
So I'm not necessarily talking about that type.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:46.559
I'm not talking about creativity as a quality.
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:49.599
That could be a part of it, a subcomponent for sure.
00:37:49.920 --> 00:38:00.639
But I'm actually even speaking from a more base perspective, that being that we are continually being created and recreated every single moment.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.599
We are in a continual act of creation.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.960
We are in a continual act of becoming, continually changing.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:12.159
And that would mean if you agree that that is a principle of nature, right?
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.920
Then that invites a certain way of being in the world.
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.880
And that invites the way of being that's specifically related to being open, right?
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:22.400
Being open to change.
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:26.639
Change is the action of creativity, is the way that I frame it.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:31.440
And one of the things that I think lots of us face as a major problem is uncertainty.
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:33.440
People are afraid of uncertainty.
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:38.639
You mentioned before, people cling to their identities, they hold on, they're afraid for the change.
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:39.039
Why?
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:42.159
Because it's comfortable and because they're afraid of uncertainty.
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.920
And our brains can react to uncertainty in different ways, right?
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:55.119
The first way, the one that I think most people think of again, amygdala, fight-flight circuitry goes off, and our frontal lobes are seeking for threats all around us, right?
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:55.679
Threat.
00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:01.840
And they think of all these possibilities, all the possibilities being all the negative possibilities, not the positive possibilities, by Right.
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:02.239
Right.
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:10.559
Because we're built for with more we're built to to pay attention more to those than we are built to for for anything else, right?
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:11.039
Yeah.
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:20.239
Well, what's interesting about that, by the way, when we reflect and think about a memory in the past, we tend to think about more negative instances.
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.920
There's a negativity bias.
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:31.840
But when it comes to prospection or simulating future events in general, we actually tend to have a positivity bias because it gives us hope and it keeps us moving forward.
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:32.719
That makes sense.
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:41.599
But in the case of uncertainty, it is certainly true that most people tend to think about the negative possibilities, right?
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:47.599
So what I just shared with you is one way that someone can handle it, not a very productive way, mind you, right?
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:50.159
Because it doesn't really lead us anywhere, right?
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:53.360
Except So what's another way we could approach uncertainty, right?
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:55.920
Well, first, can we look at uncertainty differently?
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:04.639
Change is all about bringing in new information, creating new connections, also letting go of old information and refining, right?
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:06.880
And so let's see what is uncertainty.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:08.320
Well, uncertainty, what does it do?
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:09.679
It makes us more alert.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:14.880
It gives us an open range of more possibilities when we're faced with uncertainty.
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.079
Without uncertainty, there's no adventure in life.
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:24.000
If everything was certain, everything would be predictable and life would be pretty boring, I think, for most people, right?
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:24.480
Yeah.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:32.400
And I like this, and this one comes more as philosoph more philosophical, but some people say that certainty is the death of a question.
00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:36.960
As soon as you know something is true, the question that was asked is gone.
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.320
It's unnecessary.
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:38.960
Right.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:46.480
But there are questions in life that are perhaps more worthy of answering because those questions have multiple answers to them.
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.039
And the answers continue to evolve through time.
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:54.639
Questions like, you know, what is my purpose or, you know, meaning and being and all that sort of fun stuff.
00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:00.239
So uncertainty can set us up definitely for all sorts of advantages in the way that I've already presented it, right?
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.360
And so we can face uncertainty in this perspective.
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.800
And when we are faced with an uncertain event, you can approach it differently.
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:18.559
Instead of viewing the uncertain event with certainty or coming up with your possibilities, approaching it like a curious scientist would approach data as they're making an observation, right?
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:23.280
Just looking at it just as information and energy, and it's coming my way.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:28.239
And I'm just collecting this data that's going to help inform me for my next move.
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:30.719
It's not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:39.199
And when you start approaching it from this perspective, what I call a discovery-oriented approach versus a solution-oriented approach, because there is no solution really in uncertainty.
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:39.440
Right.
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:39.760
Right.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:40.960
It's just too unpredictable.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:41.920
We don't know.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:43.679
There's too many variables involved.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:51.039
And so when you are solution focused, well, it it ends up driving you nuts because you there is no solution to pinpoint.
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.679
Some things we just need to live through, right?
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:55.760
And so that's one of those circumstances.
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:59.760
And when you approach it this way, you find the amygdala starts to quiet.
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:09.199
And you find that the frontal lobes and the amygdala start to have an increased dialogue with each other, a more balanced dialogue as opposed to, you know, both of them freaking out in some way.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:13.119
There's a very wonderful Taoist parable that goes with this, if you don't mind me sharing.
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:14.079
It's very popular.
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:15.280
It's it's short also.
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:20.480
You may have already heard this, but for the audience, if they haven't, it's very useful for a lot of patients of mine.
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:28.559
There was a there's a famous, I'll just say there's a I'm paraphrasing completely, but there is uh a family of diviners.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:31.360
Okay, so they like to make predictions and they're always accurate.
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:36.880
And uh the family of diviners, a father was also a farmer, and he had a beautiful horse, right?
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.280
And this beautiful horse escaped one day.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:44.159
When it escaped, the villagers stopped by and they were expressing their sympathies.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.800
How unfortunate that your horse has left.
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.400
But the father just looked at them and said, This will be great fortune.
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:51.599
This will be good fortune.
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:53.920
And they left scratching their heads, like, what's going on here?
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:54.719
This doesn't make sense.
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.119
And they're like, okay, the guy's just crazy, whatever, right?
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.800
Five days later, the horse comes back with five other wild horses.
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:05.679
And so the villagers stopped by and they say, Wow, this is such a fortunate event.
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:08.000
You have five more horses now to your stock.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:08.880
That's that's amazing.
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:12.559
And the father looks at some and says, This is going to be a calamity.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.079
This is gonna be misfortune.
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:14.960
This is not good.
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.320
They left scratching their heads.
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:18.480
This makes sense again, right?
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:25.280
A month later, the son of the farmer was training one of the horses and gets thrown off the horse and breaks his leg.
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.920
And so the villagers stop by and they're like, We're so sorry to hear that your son broke his leg.
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:33.199
But the father looks at them and says, No, this will be very fortunate.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:34.320
This will be fortunate.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:40.480
A few months into the line, the army came by to recruit, but the son has had a broken leg.
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:41.920
So they didn't recruit the son.
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:48.400
And they realized later that the son would have been recruited to a battle at the frontiers where nine out of ten people died.
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:51.760
And so the villagers stopped by and said, Wow, this is very fortunate.
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.840
And the father looked at them and says, No, no, this is going to be a calamity.
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:56.960
Oh, I love that.
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.840
That's a very that's a beautiful thank you for sharing that.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:11.599
That's really beautiful because it just shares again for every fortune, there's a misfortune, but it's it's all about how you look at things, it's all perspective of how you're looking at that moment and that opportunity.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:30.000
And what I find really interesting in this as well is that those villagers are looking at things just for this instance, and they're not seeing the actual expansive of how does this one moment then influence the ripple effects of life and circumstances that are yet to come.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:34.239
And that predictor model of what it means to create that.
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:40.880
I mean, our human brains also are constantly just hungry, infinite hungry for answers, always.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:58.320
And I find it really interesting to find that balance of, you know, where I'm sure you've dealt with a lot of clients that have high anxiety and are continuously ruminating and ruminating and ruminating and ruminating and don't know how to create that pause for themselves.
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:09.760
And being able to recognize that there are some questions that are okay to be left unanswered and not to have the continuous why, why, why.
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:21.760
And then there's some that instead of asking it from the place of why, it's really understanding what is the, what is the, not what is the cause of this, but what is this now going to create.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:24.320
That's right, it's right on the money.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:26.559
I'll drag it's and we could go on forever.
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:31.519
You know, I think that what you're touching on is something that our society is really starving for right now.
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:40.719
And your book could not have come out at a better time because I think that there is, to your point, I think we are returning back to looking at Eastern philosophies.
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:54.960
When, you know, if we circle back all the way to our beginning of our conversation, talking about being a third culture kid and gravitating to the Western culture and denying our own versus returning to one and then finding some kind of balance or the the gray and the spectrum in that.
00:45:55.199 --> 00:46:12.880
I think one of the pieces of that is recognizing how much, you know, Western society actually has incorporated so much of Eastern philosophies, but just renames it and uh, you know, to make it a little bit more palatable for Western society to accept it.
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:19.360
And so a lot of I think what you mentioned talk about are things that we are seeing already.
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:24.400
We see Ayurveda being called integrative medicine and functional medicine, right?
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:34.719
We're seeing yoga take a next level form of expansion here, you know, mindfulness practices, things that have been there for thousands of years.
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.800
But why is it that the wellness industry has just exploded?
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:44.480
Is because when we look at that, it's we are craving, we are dehydrated.
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:45.360
I'll say that word again.
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:55.760
We are dehydrated for returning back to the way that we are supposed to be, you know, let's call it resetting ourselves back to manufacturer settings.
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:56.079
Yeah.
00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:00.400
And while being able to process the world that we're in.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:02.719
So, Aldric, thank you so much for being here.
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:04.960
Thank you so much for everything you've shared.
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:06.559
Again, we could go on forever.
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:34.880
Definitely want to have you back because I want to talk deeper about just the ramifications when it comes to some of the more challenges that we have as a society when it comes to human suffering and the things that we take for granted and the areas that we're kind of created gaps in, whether it's our healthcare system, our mental health, the things that actually provide humanitarian safety measures and safety nets that we are finding a lot of holes in.
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:35.760
Yeah.
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.760
And the way that our values are moving towards a thing that's in misalignment with it.
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:45.199
But I think what you're talking about in your book, it's phenomenal, it's fantastic, it's timely, it's what we need.
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:50.079
I think it's it's going to help people really find some form of alignment back to themselves.
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:50.960
So thank you so much.
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:52.960
Thank you so much again for having me.
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:54.639
Hi friends.
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:56.400
I have a favor to ask you.
00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:05.519
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00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:10.639
Your words help others discover the stories and perspectives that we're exploring over here.
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:20.960
And the more that we grow and the more feedback that we get from you through these reviews, the more we can make sure to create meaningful episodes that you're gonna enjoy.
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:27.440
You have no idea how much it means to me and how much it means to creating these podcast episodes for you.
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:28.719
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00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:34.559
So subscribe, follow, leave a review, and share it with your family and friends.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:35.840
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