Trump's War on the U.S. Government

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Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favre.
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I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
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On today's show, we'll talk about Trump's new proposal for
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the United States to, quote, own Gaza. His continued destruction
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of our own government that's being led by Elon Musk.
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And he may finally be hitting some legal roadblocks, so
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we'll talk about that. The Democrats are also now using
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what little power they have to fight back. And later
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you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Senator Brian Schatz about why
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he and his colleagues gave speeches all night to oppose
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Trump's nominee for OMB director and what else they're planning.
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But first, Trump attended the national prayer breakfast on Thursday
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in Washington, which you don't want to miss when you've
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been chosen by God to save America, as Trump has.
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In the spirit of our Lord and Savior, he gave
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a speech filled with his trademark humility and grace. Let's listen.
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And as the Bible says, blessed are the peacemakers.
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And in that end, I hope my greatest legacy, when
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it's all finished, will be known as a peacemaker.
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And a unifier. I hope that's going to be clear.
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The opposite side, the opposing side, and they oppose religion.
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They oppose God. I don't know if you've been watching,
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but we got rid of woke over the last two weeks.
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Woke is gonzo. I'm sure you've seen it.
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The water comes down from the northwest parts of Canada,
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I guess, but the Pacific Northwest. And it comes down
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by millions and millions of barrels a day.
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And I opened it up.
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Wasn't that easy to do, but I opened it up
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and it's pouring down and it's a beautiful thing.
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You know, it is pouring in Los Angeles, has been
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the last couple of days, and I assumed it was rain,
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but apparently it's water from our Lord and Savior, Donald Trump.
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Barrels of water from Northwest Canada via Donald Trump.
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Yeah, he just opened up the spigots and it's just
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been flowing from the skies because that's how water travels
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from north to south on our heads.
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That's how gravity works.
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So much to unpack here, but let's start with Trump's
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aspiration to be known as a peacemaker. Since we haven't
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had the pleasure of discussing his plan to turn Gaza
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into what he calls the Riviera of the Middle East,
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a phrase he blurted out during a press conference with
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Bibi Netanyahu on Tuesday. Trump did not rule out sending
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American troops into Gaza, which he said the U.S. should, quote, own.
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but not before the forced relocation of 2 million Palestinians,
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the very definition of ethnic cleansing. Trump later walked back
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the part about sending U.S. troops, but aside from Israeli
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politicians and Trump surrogates, just about every other observer is
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a mix of very confused and very opposed. Does this
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fall into the watch what he does, not what he
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says category, or is this one to take seriously? What
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was your reaction to this? I.
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You know, we've talked a lot since Trump has been
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sworn in about how to modulate our reaction to certain things.
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We don't want to be at an 11 all the
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time and you want to try to separate just him
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having verbal diarrhea on the stage from like the thing
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he's actually doing to hurt people's lives, many of which
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we're going to talk about in this podcast. But I
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do think that's at times a false dichotomy, right? Like
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what the president says matters, right?
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It has- Especially in foreign affairs.
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Especially in foreign affairs. And so- Do I think that
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Donald Trump is going to be able to put together
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a plan to forcibly relocate 2 million people who do
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not want to go to countries who do not want
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to have them against the wishes of everyone in the
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region and do so without the U.S. troops so we
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can build luxury condos in Gaza? No, I think that's
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unlikely to happen. But the fact that he said it
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and Tommy pointed this out matters because that is a
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massive recruitment tool for Hamas and groups like Hamas. This
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is exactly what they have talked about, the idea they're
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going to be moved from their home so the United
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States of America can own Gaza for a resort, for
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a series of Trump resorts on the waterfront. That's a
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damaging thing to say. That does matter.
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Oh, is it? Yeah.
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I mean, well, we had this... Everyone is... We're having
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concern policing. Like, oh, you can't be worried about this.
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You have to be worried about this. You're not worried
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enough about this.
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I know.
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One of the ways we concern police is there's things
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he says that he's never going to do, and there
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are things that he's doing that he never talks about.
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Sometimes the things he says he's never going to do matter,
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as you point out, particularly in foreign policy.
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So all the reporting, and it was confirmed by the
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White House, was that this wasn't just off the cuff.
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He had been thinking about this for a while. He's
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had this plan for a while. And Axios had a story.
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I think the headline was like, what was in Trump's
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mind and what Trump was thinking with this? And so
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I said, ooh, I'm interested to learn this. And there
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was a source close to Trump that told Axios, he
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is a disruptor and he wanted to challenge the discourse.
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That story made me want to throw my phone against
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the wall.
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He's a disruptor. He's just, you know, it's a war-torn
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country with starving people in a in the middle of
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a conflict that has been going on for hundreds of years,
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if not more, that is sort of a solution has
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evaded presidents and leaders. But you know what? Donald Trump's
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a disruptor. He's just wanting to, he wants to challenge
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the discourse by saying that we should own Gaza as
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a country. We've got Greenland, Canada, the Panama Canal, Gaza.
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We're going to forcibly displace 2 million Palestinians. But then
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he said, oh, well, then they're going to have new homes,
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new homes and just a nice life.
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Modern new homes. Modern new homes.
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Modern new homes. Modern new homes they're going to have.
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Yeah.
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So like clearly I think what happened here is someone
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told him that a very real problem right now is
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how are the people of Gaza going to live in
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a country that because of Hamas and the Israeli government
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is just absolutely fucking destroyed. There's people starving everywhere. Like,
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it's just horrible. Hamas has still not been completely rooted
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out either. And what are you going to... Like, how
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are you going to rebuild? What are people going to
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do while you rebuild? Like, these are real questions and
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it's a real challenge. And I think he didn't want
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to know more than that. And all he wanted to
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think of was like, well, why don't we do it?
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We're buying up everything else. We're getting Greenland and getting
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the rest of it. We'll do it. It'll be great.
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We'll send troops. It'll be fine. They'll be fine. And
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then he just said it. I think that's probably... He
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wants to be the guy who... is seen as fixing
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hard problems, but he doesn't want to do any of
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the difficult or unpopular things required to solve the hard problems.
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Look, if there is one situation in the history of
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world where it makes sense to just start spitballing ideas,
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it's Middle East peace. That's where you do it.
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That's where you want to freelance. That's where you want
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to freelance. As you also heard in the clip of
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the prayer breakfast, woke is gonzo. We've talked about Trump
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and Elon trying to root out and fire federal workers.
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who've had anything to do with any diversity initiatives. They're
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also trying to cancel all diversity programs. I think we've
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said this before, but there was even a Lunar New
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Year event at a public university that was canceled. Pam Bondi,
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who is now our Attorney General, so congratulations, Pam Bondi,
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she has already released a memo instructing the Civil Rights
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Division of the Justice Department to, quote, investigate, eliminate, and
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penalize illegal DEI and DEIA preferences, mandates, policies, programs, and
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activities in the private sector and in educational institutions that
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receive federal funds. In case you don't know, DEIA, the
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A is for accessibility, so we are also making sure
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that people with disabilities cannot have any initiatives or help
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or anything like that. We don't want to do anything
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for folks with disabilities as well. They got added to
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the DEI for Trump. Bondi is also heading up a
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new task force to, quote, eradicate anti-Christian bias, which Trump
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also announced at the breakfast. And on Wednesday, Trump signed
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an executive order to ban trans girls from participating in
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girls' sports, which will almost surely be challenged in court,
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though apparently the NCAA has already moved on this and
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is abiding by the order. But the 10 athletes that
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that applies to in the NCAA, So we got that
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problem covered. Promise is kept, right? The reaction from MAGA
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fans on social media suggests that this is the stuff
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they're most excited about. They're all high-fiving, they're celebrating these moves.
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Question is, are these performative? Are they real? And are
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some of them seemingly just too an excuse to fire
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and harass people who aren't Trump loyalists.
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In everything Trump and his minions do, harassing people who
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are different than them is always... That's the benefit of
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all of it, right? That is to them what cutting
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Medicare was to Paul Ryan, right? It's the thing they
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talked about when they were sitting by the keg in college.
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That is the truth. These things are somewhat performative in
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the sense that there are always... questions about the legal
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authority they are using here. Does it exist? Will a
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court uphold it? Is the bizarre interpretation of various regulations
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they're using for these sorts of things truly give them
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the authority to do stuff? But they have real-world effect.
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There's a very real chance you point out that the
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executive order on banning trans participation in sports is going
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to be held up by a court. That didn't stop
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the NCAA. They did it. Half the country has laws
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on the books that ban trans participation in sports. What's
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going to happen to half the country? It does not
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have those laws, right? Do you think our high school
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and rec leagues going to really take a fight with
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the Department of Justice? Even if the Department of Justice
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has no chance of winning that, you see the same
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thing with the DEI programs, right? Just Google the other
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day announced they were abandoning theirs. Now, I think on
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the corporate side, a lot of them are just waiting
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for the reason and excuse to do this. They're not
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necessarily afraid that Trump's going to come after them. It's
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like they were waiting for a reason to get rid
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of these programs, and now Trump has given them cover
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to do it. But it has real impact. And it
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makes me think about, you'll remember this, at a rally
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early in the campaign when Trump was first talking about
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this issue, he basically said, when I bring up tax cuts,
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I give you all tax cuts, no one cheers. When
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I bring this up, you all cheer. And you can
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see it clicking his brain. There is real enthusiasm for
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it in the base, and that's probably why they are
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cheering here.
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Just in case people think that, you know, Trump going
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after all these DEI, DEIA initiatives, programs is about like canceling,
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you know, the agency's unconscious bias training or, you know,
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getting rid of all the Ibram X. Kendi books, you know,
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that are sitting on the federal government agencies. A right
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wing group called the American Accountability Foundation last week started
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a DEI watch list website. that published photos, names, and
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public information of mostly black employees within the Department of
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Health and Human Services. These are people in the public
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health agencies and had the word targets above their pictures.
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These are doctors, scientists, researchers. And so that website has
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been going around. There was about 50 employees suspended at
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the Department of Education. So there's a guy who works
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in a, Regional office for the education department at the
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Office for Civil Rights. This person is a West Point grad,
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Army veteran, former prosecutor, got a perfect rating in his
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last three evaluations. He was suspended from his job because
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he had been appointed by two Trump political appointees to
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a diversity council that was created under the first Trump administration.
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Cool.
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Trump administration creates a diversity council, two Trump appointees appoint
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this guy to the council, veteran prosecutor, perfect ratings, doing
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his job. He has now been suspended from his job.
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So these are the effects of these orders and this climate,
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which is as Russ Vogt, who is set to be
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the new OMB director, said that their goal is to
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terrorize federal employees, to traumatize them. He said their goal
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is to traumatize federal employees so that it's miserable to
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come to work every day. That's what the real goal is.
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And you know what? You can say, like, federal workforce
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is too big and too many bureaucrats and we should
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cut weight. Like, yeah, sure, of course. There's a way
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to do it. There's a way to identify budget cuts
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and send them to Congress and have them in a
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budget and tell employees, okay, you can leave. You got severance.
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You got this. You got that. This is not what's happening.
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This is not what's happening at all.
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Ezra Klein made this point on his podcast recently talking
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about this effort to basically force federal government employees to leave.
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It's like, do they have a plan for this? What
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happens if a bunch of primary care physicians in the
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VA decide to leave?
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Yep.
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How are you going to replace them? Who's going to
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give healthcare to veterans?
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Scientists and researchers at the NIH, law enforcement officials, judges.
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I mean, the list goes on and on. Air traffic controllers.
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Exactly. Where we have a shortage of people already. Do
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I think that the federal government could probably operate with
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fewer employees across the board? I'm sure that's the case. Absolutely.
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But you have to have a plan that focuses on
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the most essential workers. Where do you have excess staff?
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Where do you have a dearth of staff? I mean,
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where do you have if you lose these people, you
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have no easy way to replace them? Because you know
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what's really hard to do? get other doctors who are
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not currently in the federal government to come work for
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the federal government.
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A lot of these federal workers, most of these federal
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workers could be making a lot more money in the
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private sector, but they do it because they believe in
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public service. And how are we going to get new
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people now? You're going to go to the DOJ so
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you can work for Pam Bondi as she hunts down
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DEI initiatives? Oh, by the way, so Pam Bondi, she's
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going after DEI initiatives now. and she's going to stop
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the weaponization of government. Here's another one of her first moves.
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One of her first moves was to eliminate the DOJ's
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anti-corruption unit that prosecuted white-collar crime and seized Russian oligarchs'
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yachts and billions of dollars in stolen assets. Sources tell
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Bradley Hope, who's a Wall Street Journal contributor, former writer there,
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he says that the sources tell him that the money
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that they have recouped from oligarchs' yachts, billions of dollars
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in stolen assets, The money that was supposed to go
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back to the victims and the governments it was stolen
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from is instead going to fund detention facilities in Gitmo.
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So we're cutting down on white-collar crime so we can
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build mass detention centers to send undocumented immigrants.
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That's what people voted for.
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That's what people voted for. We were being too tough
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on white-collar crime and Russian oligarchs.
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Let's talk about Elon Musk, the world's richest man and
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00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.859
dumbest genius. He continues his Civics 101 education, which involves
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learning how government works before trying to illegally dismantle the
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services people count on and terrorize the public servants who
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provide them. But he is starting to run into some
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resistance with the courts. On Thursday, a federal judge in D.C.
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ruled that the Treasury Department cannot provide access to any
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payment record or payment system of records to Elon's Doge bags.
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I'm calling them doge bags. This comes as CNN reports
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that just days after the inauguration, the doge bags tried
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to force the highest ranking career official at the Treasury
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Department to just stop all payments to USAID. Just stop them.
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And when he refused, that's when he resigned. It has
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also come to light that USAID's inspector general was investigating
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the agency's partnership with Starlink, a service Musk owns to
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provide Internet in Ukraine. Separately, another judge on Thursday also
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delayed the deadline for federal employees to decide whether they
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want to take Elon's fork-in-the-road buyout offer, at least until
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the hearing on Monday when the judge decides whether to
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block the program, which around 40,000 employees have now agreed to.
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Charlie Savage at the New York Times wrote a piece
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rounding up all the ways that Trump and Elon are
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ignoring organizations. or contravening the law as they do all this.
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You're seeing the lawsuits pop up, federal judges starting to
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issue orders. You see this as a hint of good news, systems,
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the guardrails are holding, or is it just too early
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to tell?
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I think it's early to tell, but I think if
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you're looking for good news, and we should all look
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quite hard for good news these days.
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You really got to dig deep. That's right.
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We're like a truffle pig for good news. You got
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to get deep in there. The good news is that
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Trump and Elon Musk and his minions are not going
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about this in a smart way. There are ways in
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which you could try to affect real long-term change and damage, frankly,
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the federal government in ways that are more legally sustainable.
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There are ways to paper it over, to go through
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steps or process to pause and think about it. But
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they're not trying to do that. They are looking for
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short-term wins, headlines. It's like Silicon Valley, move fast, break things.
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And in doing so, they are leaving themselves very vulnerable
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to legal challenges. Now, ultimately, you're getting things stopped at
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the district court level. What's going to happen when it
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gets to the appeals court level, where you're going to
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have more of these circuits that are going to be
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filled with Trump judges? And then, of course, what happens
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when it gets to the Supreme Court level? And the
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Supreme Court is going to have some pretty big decisions
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to make about how much power the president has. And
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they love Donald Trump. There's a majority that loves Donald Trump.
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He put a lot of them on that court. But
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something will have to be in the back of their
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mind is if you do a massive expansion of presidential power,
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is there's going to be a Democrat in that office,
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hopefully in the not too distant future. And are they
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willing to.
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Do that?
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When you talk about just the ability of the president
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to unilaterally just get rid of the power of the
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purse to not spend money Congress appropriates, that would be
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a massive change in sort of the balance of power
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in this country that is extended for centuries.
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Yeah, I mean, you could see them ruling, and they've
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been sort of hinting at this for a while, and
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there have been some other rulings that pointed this direction,
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that the president does have more power than precedent suggests
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in terms of, like, you know, firing civil servants or
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all that kind of stuff. The Schedule F stuff. Again, though,
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the way that Elon has gone about it, the whole
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thing about the payment systems and having you know, random
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doge bags access the payment systems. I don't think they're
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going to get away with that one. But on some
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of the federal workers, I do wonder about the USAID
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stuff because I don't imagine that you can just eliminate
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an independent agency that was created due to a law
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that passed Congress. Yeah. They're, of course, trying to get
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away with saying that they are reorganizing it. But, you know,
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just before we record it, The news is that only
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290 of the 10,000 USAID employees worldwide will keep their jobs.
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I mean, that has to be illegal, right? Obviously, the
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courts can decide what is truly legal or not, but
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as you pointed out, an agency created by Congress, funded
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by Congress, you do these things, and you can't just
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unilaterally fire all the people and make it go away
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and not spend the money. That clearly is a violation
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of something.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it is. The USAID thing, and again, we all
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know that foreign aid doesn't poll well. Get it. But
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what is happening to USAID? Some of the employees at
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USAID have been serving their country for decades. They are
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some of the most apolitical, nonpartisan people you'll ever meet.
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They're in dangerous areas all over the world trying to
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keep people alive with food and with medicine. And since
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this freeze and, you know, Rubio's out there bullshitting that like, oh,
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the freeze is over and we've made exceptions and now
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everything should be fine. And if you can't get your
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00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.650
grant back, then that's your problem. And maybe you're doing
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it on purpose to make us look bad, which is
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all bullshit. But since the freeze and since the freeze
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has been ended, or at least there's been a carve
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out for sort of life-saving assistance, it hasn't really worked.
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HIV patients still aren't getting their medicine in Sudan where,
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There is a genocide, according to the United States government.
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Half the population of 50 million is starving, needs food.
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Famine is spreading. And two-thirds of the soup kitchens in Khartoum,
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the biggest city, are closed because of this. I saw
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Samantha Power, the former USAID director, our friend, on Colbert
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the other night saying that this is how bad it was.
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In some places in Africa, kids were in line for
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their TB medication, their tuberculosis. And three kids... got theirs,
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and then the rest of the line had to go
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home because the freeze happened and they couldn't legally provide anymore.
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In Zambia, there's medical supplies to stop hemorrhaging pregnant women
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and life-threatening diarrhea in toddlers, and those are all gone now.
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So it's just going to be like people around the
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world are going to die. And by the way, the
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money that it costs for malaria nets or some of
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these life-saving HIV drugs is like tiny, tiny. amount of, sorry,
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a small, small amount of money. We're not saving as money,
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money that's already been appropriated. So like, don't fucking tell
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00:24:54.829 --> 00:24:56.769
me that you were, we're like going to take this
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00:24:56.869 --> 00:24:59.170
money and now give people tax cuts in America, which would,
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which most people still probably wouldn't prefer. But like, now
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this is just a waste now. And these, these USAID employees,
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like they, they have families in foreign countries. Suddenly they've
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been told like, you got to go home. They don't
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know how to go home. They don't know who to contact.
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They're taking their kids out of school. They've like, given
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their life for this. They are also, I've talked to
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some people at USAID, they are threatening to investigate the
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senior officials at USAID for some of this DEI stuff
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or whatever. And the reason they want to do this
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is to try to fire them for a cause so
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they can make sure that none of these people have
474
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.420
a severance, none of these people have healthcare after they leave.
475
00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:39.160
So just like cut them off immediately and send them
476
00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:39.500
out the door.
477
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:44.180
This is truly insane. It is a fraction of the
478
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.500
government's budget. And you can argue about individual programs or
479
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:50.240
whatever else. It is a fraction of the government's budget.
480
00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:53.119
And maybe the reason they're going after this is because
481
00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.880
Elon Musk is mad at the USAID inspector general for
482
00:25:55.900 --> 00:26:01.019
investigating Starlink, or maybe because they recognize politically that foreign
483
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:02.819
aid is the weakest of the herd, right? It's the
484
00:26:02.900 --> 00:26:05.039
easiest to go after, the hardest to defend. You get
485
00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:07.220
Democrats in a position where they're defending foreign aid. I
486
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:08.859
think Democrats should defend foreign aid in this case. We
487
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:10.980
should defend the point of it. We should defend the
488
00:26:11.029 --> 00:26:12.740
fact that we view it as our responsibility in the
489
00:26:12.789 --> 00:26:16.799
world to do good things. And the– it's just the
490
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:21.160
way that– like, it is ruthless. It is cruel. It's
491
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:24.900
truly sociopathic, the way they are doing this. Just, like,
492
00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.940
targeting these people who did nothing. Like, this isn't even–
493
00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:33.650
USAID isn't even really part of some crazy MAGA conspiracy
494
00:26:33.769 --> 00:26:36.670
like the FBI or the DOJ. Like, you under– like,
495
00:26:36.690 --> 00:26:37.230
it is also absurd.
496
00:26:37.250 --> 00:26:38.970
It's a new one. They just discovered.
497
00:26:39.150 --> 00:26:46.329
They just– As a scholar of Trump insanity or MAG insanity,
498
00:26:46.349 --> 00:26:48.809
you can understand we're going after Jack Smith people or
499
00:26:48.849 --> 00:26:51.289
the FBI agents who've investigated January 6th, even if they
500
00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:52.890
were just asked to do so by the superiors. That
501
00:26:52.930 --> 00:26:55.599
is also wrong and terrible. But this one just seems
502
00:26:55.859 --> 00:27:02.940
so random and the ruthlessness of it is truly crazy.
503
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:04.660
It's hard to fathom how insane this is.
504
00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:10.220
Another possibility is that Elon and the dogebags are just–
505
00:27:10.299 --> 00:27:14.710
they're looking at programs that they're finding online and they
506
00:27:15.029 --> 00:27:17.569
are in some cases outright lying about them or taking
507
00:27:17.589 --> 00:27:18.809
it out of context or they don't know what the
508
00:27:18.829 --> 00:27:21.690
fuck they're talking about so it seems nefarious. And they
509
00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:23.210
could have just seen a couple of those programs at
510
00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:25.190
USAID and decided, oh, that's where we're going to start.
511
00:27:25.690 --> 00:27:28.349
And then, again, these people, because they have no experience
512
00:27:28.390 --> 00:27:30.730
in government, because they don't bother to learn anything, because
513
00:27:30.750 --> 00:27:32.900
they think they're the smartest fucking people in the world–
514
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.180
because everyone in government's bad and everyone's attack is a
515
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:36.920
fucking genius who's going to save the world. That's how
516
00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:39.900
they think out there, a lot of them, unfortunately. They
517
00:27:40.069 --> 00:27:45.730
are now just, they're going on a website, usaspending.gov, and
518
00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:49.190
all the Elon fanboy accounts on Twitter are doing this too.
519
00:27:50.009 --> 00:27:56.170
And they're looking at publicly available information about government spending
520
00:27:56.289 --> 00:28:01.990
and acting like they are making some incredible discovery about
521
00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:05.710
corruption that has been hidden. The website is there because
522
00:28:06.769 --> 00:28:10.029
George W. Bush signed it into law thanks to a
523
00:28:10.309 --> 00:28:13.849
law that was sponsored by Senator Barack Obama and Republican,
524
00:28:14.029 --> 00:28:17.029
extremely conservative Republican Tom Coburn to make sure that all
525
00:28:17.069 --> 00:28:19.630
the government spending in the entire budget is online for
526
00:28:19.710 --> 00:28:22.430
everyone to see. That's the only reason that they're all
527
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.380
finding all this fucking spending that they're like, oh, this
528
00:28:25.420 --> 00:28:27.859
is the greatest scandal in history. And they just like
529
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.240
stumbled over it because they weren't fucking paying attention to
530
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.269
anything the government did up until now. unless it had
531
00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:35.450
something to do with their companies and making sure they
532
00:28:35.470 --> 00:28:40.269
couldn't make more billions of dollars. I can't stand these.
533
00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:43.190
It does make me wonder if transparency is a mistake.
534
00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:48.269
It's just, if you have people with massive megaphones just
535
00:28:48.710 --> 00:28:52.339
pushing out out-of-contact misinformation to large-spots people at a time
536
00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:54.920
which the media does not have the capability or the
537
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.680
reach to push back, it's not particularly great.
538
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:00.720
There's so many examples of this, but the one that
539
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.329
really took off this week is a real, a huge scandal,
540
00:29:04.410 --> 00:29:06.970
huge scandal. Here's Donald Trump describing it at the prayer
541
00:29:06.990 --> 00:29:07.650
breakfast this morning.
542
00:29:08.089 --> 00:29:11.569
Did you see what happened yesterday where they found hundreds
543
00:29:11.630 --> 00:29:15.450
of millions of dollars of money was fraudulently given to
544
00:29:16.849 --> 00:29:21.920
newspapers and I guess Politico? I don't know. They're here.
545
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:22.799
Good.
546
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:27.619
I hope you're enjoying your breakfast. No, they gave money
547
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:34.039
to all this out of, out of USAID.
548
00:29:36.549 --> 00:29:39.930
So, again, huge scandal. Trump also truthed about it early on.
549
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:43.279
Thursday morning, saying that billions of dollars had been stolen, quote,
550
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:45.519
much of it going to the fake news media as
551
00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:49.180
a payoff for creating good stories about the Democrats. What
552
00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:50.640
a scandal. What a scandal.
553
00:29:50.779 --> 00:29:52.420
Well, think of all the good stories they've read about
554
00:29:52.460 --> 00:29:54.140
Joe Biden. Money well spent.
555
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:56.769
And just in case you think this is Donald Trump, no,
556
00:29:56.789 --> 00:30:01.309
the brain rot is now Trump, Elon Musk... just dozens
557
00:30:01.390 --> 00:30:07.960
of fucking MAGA, Doge accounts online, Musk fanboys, Trump fanboys, everywhere, right?
558
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:11.279
They all think the right-wing media, they've got Fox, it's everywhere.
559
00:30:11.819 --> 00:30:18.609
The federal government purchased $ 8 million worth of Politico Pro subscriptions.
560
00:30:18.670 --> 00:30:23.250
Politico Pro is separate from regular Politico and it's for
561
00:30:23.630 --> 00:30:28.049
CEOs and companies and governments and it's basically... I don't know,
562
00:30:28.309 --> 00:30:32.589
you learn information about legislation and analysis and very complicated.
563
00:30:32.630 --> 00:30:34.269
It's like a Bloomberg terminal is basically what it's like.
564
00:30:34.289 --> 00:30:37.630
It's like a Bloomberg terminal. And it's like $ 7, 000 a
565
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.940
year for a subscription to it. Pretty expensive. Look, if
566
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.880
I saw a bunch of Politico Pro subscriptions in our budget,
567
00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:46.200
I'd be like, hey, do we really need that? Maybe
568
00:30:46.220 --> 00:30:50.180
we should cut those down. But the idea that that
569
00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:55.400
was turned into... USAID is secretly funneling money to Politico
570
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.349
to get good stories for Democrats. First of all, not
571
00:30:58.390 --> 00:30:59.109
getting their money's worth.
572
00:31:00.029 --> 00:31:00.630
Seriously.
573
00:31:01.930 --> 00:31:04.089
I don't know if you've read Politico the last couple
574
00:31:04.109 --> 00:31:06.390
of years. Not getting their money's worth on that one.
575
00:31:07.029 --> 00:31:09.049
There's also something they go through in all of these
576
00:31:09.470 --> 00:31:15.059
Republican Senate offices, House offices, also spending government money on
577
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:19.640
a subscription to Politico Pro. In fact, in 2017, the
578
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:23.410
executive office of the president under Donald Trump paid $ 97, 000
579
00:31:23.309 --> 00:31:23.960
to Politico Pro.
580
00:31:23.970 --> 00:31:32.000
You're... You are missing one key part of this conspiracy
581
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:35.279
theory that is very important, which is on the day
582
00:31:35.420 --> 00:31:39.220
this sort of came up, it was reported by Semaphore
583
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.920
that because of a glitch, Politico failed to pay their employees.
584
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:47.019
So the theory is not just that the government- Oh,
585
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:51.210
that's a coincidence. Was giving all this money to- Politico,
586
00:31:51.309 --> 00:31:53.769
it's that once Elon Musk in the doge bags, which
587
00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:55.250
I assume he made up and is quite impressive.
588
00:31:55.769 --> 00:31:56.549
On the spot, really.
589
00:31:56.710 --> 00:32:00.930
Very good. That's just genius at work. You know what, guys?
590
00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:02.990
I'm just a little behind the scenes. Reid didn't want
591
00:32:03.029 --> 00:32:04.930
me to call them nerds because he thought that was,
592
00:32:05.190 --> 00:32:05.410
you know.
593
00:32:05.630 --> 00:32:08.829
He said, and I quote, where he comes from in
594
00:32:08.950 --> 00:32:11.250
his social circle, nerds are cool. That's what he said.
595
00:32:11.769 --> 00:32:12.210
You know what?
596
00:32:12.250 --> 00:32:12.450
Nerds.
597
00:32:12.609 --> 00:32:14.769
I was a nerd. Nerds are cool. I'm not making
598
00:32:14.789 --> 00:32:15.289
fun of nerds.
599
00:32:15.309 --> 00:32:15.490
I get it.
600
00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:17.099
I get it. But fuck these people.
601
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:17.390
Yeah.
602
00:32:17.910 --> 00:32:19.690
Yeah, the problem is not that they're nerdy.
603
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:21.779
That is not- Or that they're young or that they're
604
00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:25.220
smart or that they're like, great. I want young, smart
605
00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:29.599
people in government. And that's amazing. Want that.
606
00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:32.220
But to go back to this, the point here is,
607
00:32:32.329 --> 00:32:34.769
is people believe that Politico was unable to make payroll
608
00:32:34.789 --> 00:32:38.329
because Elon Musk in the doge bags shut off the
609
00:32:38.369 --> 00:32:41.289
fountain of money. And this one really is, this is
610
00:32:41.390 --> 00:32:46.140
like the chef's kiss apotheosis of perfect right-wing conspiracy theories.
611
00:32:46.890 --> 00:32:53.349
You have a shadowy government agency that helps foreign countries
612
00:32:53.630 --> 00:32:59.900
and foreign people funneling money to a Washington, D.C.-based outlet
613
00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:05.359
that's owned by a German billionaire to write good stories
614
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.769
about Joe Biden and Democrats and bastards with Donald Trump.
615
00:33:08.130 --> 00:33:10.730
That is everything. If you could just get Anthony Fauci's
616
00:33:10.750 --> 00:33:13.190
name in there, it would be just perfect. It's also perfect.
617
00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:17.220
It's also perfect for like the anti-anti-Trumps or the former
618
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:20.400
anti-Trumps since they're all on board now. Because they're all
619
00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:23.450
out there like, look, obviously the craziest conspiracy is wrong,
620
00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:25.920
but that is so much money and the fact that
621
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.809
everyone's defending this much money. It's like, no, if you
622
00:33:28.829 --> 00:33:32.089
don't like the government spending this much on Politico Pro subscriptions,
623
00:33:32.450 --> 00:33:35.589
go talk to your fucking Republican senators and congressmen. Go
624
00:33:35.630 --> 00:33:38.130
through the normal process. So talk to your, talk to
625
00:33:38.150 --> 00:33:40.109
the fucking, like, fine, cut it. I don't give a
626
00:33:40.170 --> 00:33:41.329
shit if anyone subscribes to Politico Pro.
627
00:33:41.349 --> 00:33:44.210
Yeah, if Donald Trump wants to cancel all the Politico Pro,
628
00:33:44.349 --> 00:33:46.009
that's his, do it.
629
00:33:46.549 --> 00:33:46.910
Fine.
630
00:33:47.289 --> 00:33:48.910
Do not cut those message box ones, though. I'll be
631
00:33:48.930 --> 00:33:49.319
very clear.
632
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:51.119
No, do not. I'm sure there's a lot of those
633
00:33:51.259 --> 00:33:53.769
in the federal government right now. One more thing about
634
00:33:53.789 --> 00:33:57.069
the doge bags before we moved on. So, of course,
635
00:33:57.109 --> 00:34:02.009
everyone is like, what are these kids helping Elon who
636
00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:06.089
haven't been vetted, don't have security clearances? They're trying to,
637
00:34:06.569 --> 00:34:08.659
I don't know, shut off millions of dollars of payments
638
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.139
that have been appropriated by law. This is concerning. And
639
00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:16.300
then you get this from the Silicon Valley assholes who
640
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.960
are on Twitter now, the Musk fans, and they're like,
641
00:34:19.530 --> 00:34:22.639
We should want. This is ridiculous. These are young, smart,
642
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.199
brilliant people. I know this one and he's brilliant. He's
643
00:34:25.219 --> 00:34:28.480
a coder. But it's like, great, fine, whatever. That's not
644
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:31.500
our issue. Well, Wall Street Journal, right before we recorded.
645
00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:35.119
Here's the lead. A key Doge staff member who gained
646
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:38.920
access to the Treasury Department's central payment system resigned Thursday
647
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:41.679
after he was linked to a deleted social media account
648
00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:45.670
that advocated racism and eugenics. And you're thinking to yourself, well,
649
00:34:45.949 --> 00:34:49.050
what were the tweets? What do you mean by racism
650
00:34:49.070 --> 00:34:51.219
and eugenics? How bad could it really have been? Well,
651
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.539
here's a quote. Just for the record, I was racist
652
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:57.440
before it was cool, the account posted in July, according
653
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:01.119
to the journal's review of archived posts. Another one. You
654
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.230
could not pay me to marry outside of my ethnicity,
655
00:35:04.550 --> 00:35:08.110
the account wrote on X in September. Another one. Normalize
656
00:35:08.289 --> 00:35:12.409
Indian hate. And then this was in December. This was
657
00:35:12.449 --> 00:35:16.050
just a couple months ago. 99% of Indian H-1Bs will
658
00:35:16.070 --> 00:35:21.139
be replaced by slightly smarter LLMs, AI. They're going back.
659
00:35:21.619 --> 00:35:25.300
Don't worry, guys. To me, that's just that. That is the, right?
660
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:29.260
We're going to replace immigrants, people of color, ethnicities we
661
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:33.190
don't like with the machines, with the robots. That's the vibe.
662
00:35:33.590 --> 00:35:34.230
That's the vibe there.
663
00:35:34.989 --> 00:35:36.190
I hate to tell this to this Doge guy, but
664
00:35:36.230 --> 00:35:37.769
who do you think the LLMs are coming for next?
665
00:35:40.989 --> 00:35:42.889
Look, there was another one. There's another one whose name
666
00:35:42.929 --> 00:35:45.130
had been out there, and I went to his Twitter account.
667
00:35:45.150 --> 00:35:49.329
It's still up. He's retweeting fucking Nick Fuentes. You know,
668
00:35:49.510 --> 00:35:50.929
I know he had dinner with Donald Trump, so I
669
00:35:50.949 --> 00:35:54.219
guess that's fine now. But, like, what? It's un-fucking-believable.
670
00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:06.099
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701
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:32.780
All right, now it's time to talk about the Democrats again.
702
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:34.400
You know what?
703
00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:37.989
It's getting better every time we do this section. Lawmakers
704
00:37:38.010 --> 00:37:41.250
have been more vocal about trying new legislative tactics, as
705
00:37:41.269 --> 00:37:44.510
we'll discuss in a minute. There's also been protests, rallies,
706
00:37:45.449 --> 00:37:48.989
went to Treasury, went to USAID. They are still working
707
00:37:49.010 --> 00:37:50.969
on landing the perfect soundbite. Let's listen.
708
00:37:51.369 --> 00:37:52.489
Hello, everybody.
709
00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:54.289
Are we going to fight the fight?
710
00:37:55.969 --> 00:37:59.340
Are we going to win the fight? Are we not
711
00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:00.929
going to rest till we win?
712
00:38:00.949 --> 00:38:03.420
We will win.
713
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:07.079
We will win. We will win.
714
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:08.880
We will win.
715
00:38:09.469 --> 00:38:18.019
We won't rest. What do we need? We won't rest.
716
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.900
We won't rest.
717
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:21.739
We won't rest.
718
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:23.340
Thank you, everybody.
719
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:29.309
Okay, okay. So, I just want to say, poor Chuck Schumer.
720
00:38:29.329 --> 00:38:32.829
He's gotten a lot of shit online for that. And, yeah,
721
00:38:33.110 --> 00:38:34.239
do you cringe listening to it?
722
00:38:34.530 --> 00:38:34.769
Sure.
723
00:38:34.789 --> 00:38:39.539
Sure. Is Chuck Schumer the most eloquent speaker? Is he
724
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:42.969
going to rile up a crowd? Probably not. Could you
725
00:38:43.010 --> 00:38:46.030
not understand what the crowd said when they said, what
726
00:38:46.070 --> 00:38:48.949
do we want? Me neither. Me neither. But you know what?
727
00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:52.170
They're trying. They are out there trying and they are
728
00:38:52.230 --> 00:38:55.699
doing their best with what they got. And like, I
729
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:57.500
am going to give them credit for that. And I
730
00:38:57.619 --> 00:39:00.280
realize it's cringe and I realize it's not great, but like,
731
00:39:01.150 --> 00:39:03.150
You know what? It's all hands on deck right now,
732
00:39:03.230 --> 00:39:04.849
and everyone's just throwing stuff at the wall to see
733
00:39:04.869 --> 00:39:07.389
what sticks, and we're trying, and I encourage that.
734
00:39:08.469 --> 00:39:10.280
When we were on this podcast last week or the
735
00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:12.320
week before some other time in the 12 years in
736
00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:15.500
which Donald Trump has been president, we talked about how
737
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.480
Democrats have to get out there and make noise, just
738
00:39:18.500 --> 00:39:20.739
start talking, stop worrying about what exactly it is you're
739
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.489
going to say, and just be out there. That clip
740
00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:26.889
makes me question that advice, I would say. No, in
741
00:39:26.909 --> 00:39:28.610
all seriousness, like, look, is it perfect?
742
00:39:28.849 --> 00:39:29.010
No.
743
00:39:29.050 --> 00:39:31.199
Don't worry about everything you're going to say, but do
744
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:31.739
say something.
745
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.539
That's right. I mean, the clip of Maxwell Frost asking,
746
00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:36.900
what do we want? And then the part of being
747
00:39:36.940 --> 00:39:40.159
unable to answer is kind of like the moment that will, like,
748
00:39:40.179 --> 00:39:42.440
if you put how we lost this election at Time Castle,
749
00:39:42.460 --> 00:39:45.960
that would be it. But look, let's give credit where
750
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.250
credit is due, is they are out there They are
751
00:39:49.289 --> 00:39:53.199
making noise. They are raising hell. We'll talk about it
752
00:39:53.300 --> 00:39:55.340
in a minute. They are fighting back now in ways
753
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:56.599
they were not in the first couple of weeks, and
754
00:39:56.619 --> 00:39:59.960
we should give them credit for that. And just the
755
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.139
mere fact that there is an opposition presence raising hell
756
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.760
about the bad things that are happening is a huge
757
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.260
change from where we were two weeks ago, and it's
758
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:10.210
a net positive for sure.
759
00:40:11.070 --> 00:40:13.730
And again, let's talk about Chuck Schumer. He's got this
760
00:40:13.769 --> 00:40:16.710
Democratic caucus. He's got, you know, John Fetterman in the caucus.
761
00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:19.239
He's got some other people who, like, are probably telling him,
762
00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:20.800
we want to vote for some of the nominees because
763
00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:22.599
that's good politics in my state. And he has to
764
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.760
sort of balance all the needs of the caucus. And
765
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:26.920
to Schumer's credit, you know, they came up with a
766
00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:29.050
strategy this week. They said, can we stop any of
767
00:40:29.090 --> 00:40:32.030
these nominees? No, we don't have the votes because we
768
00:40:32.050 --> 00:40:34.989
don't have enough senators. And so what can we do? Well,
769
00:40:35.030 --> 00:40:38.309
we can slow them down. We can hold the floor
770
00:40:38.849 --> 00:40:40.679
and give a bunch of speeches so that we delay
771
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:43.579
these nominations already. I think Kash Patel now is not
772
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:45.860
going to be voted on for another week because of
773
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:49.000
Democrats' delay tactics. So they're gumming up the works. They're
774
00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:50.539
doing what they can. And they decided to hold the
775
00:40:50.619 --> 00:40:56.030
floor Wednesday night into Thursday for the nomination of Russ
776
00:40:56.050 --> 00:40:59.210
Vogt for Office of Management and Budget, the budget director.
777
00:40:59.929 --> 00:41:02.550
And Brian Schatz, who you're going to hear in a bit,
778
00:41:02.769 --> 00:41:05.949
talked to Tommy and Schumer's office and everyone. They reached
779
00:41:05.969 --> 00:41:07.030
out to us and said, look, we're going to hold
780
00:41:07.050 --> 00:41:09.300
the floor. We want to make some noise. You guys
781
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:11.800
were talking about making noise. How about you guys do
782
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:14.690
a live stream and You know, we'll have all the
783
00:41:14.730 --> 00:41:16.050
senators who are on the floor or a bunch of
784
00:41:16.070 --> 00:41:18.460
senators on the floor, Democratic senators, come talk to you guys. And,
785
00:41:18.659 --> 00:41:21.219
you know, we did it. It was great. And, you know,
786
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.639
they sat down. They were there all night. They popped
787
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:26.400
into the live stream. And again, it's like people are
788
00:41:26.420 --> 00:41:29.070
trying here. People are trying. And we have limited power.
789
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.409
That doesn't mean that people who aren't good or bad
790
00:41:32.449 --> 00:41:34.889
messaging or whatever gets a pass, like we can all improve.
791
00:41:35.309 --> 00:41:38.610
But they're trying. They're trying. So now Schumer has also
792
00:41:38.650 --> 00:41:41.570
got the whole caucus to oppose or he's asking Congress
793
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.820
the whole caucus, to oppose all of the remaining Trump
794
00:41:44.860 --> 00:41:48.360
nominees as a protest. Again, probably not going to do
795
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:51.719
anything unless we get Susan Collins and Murkowski and McConnell
796
00:41:51.949 --> 00:41:53.730
and someone else to vote against them. So it's probably
797
00:41:53.750 --> 00:41:55.989
not going to happen, but good for him. And then
798
00:41:56.010 --> 00:41:59.449
Hakeem Jeffries, Democratic minority leader in the House, he had
799
00:41:59.489 --> 00:42:01.949
a letter earlier this week that made clear that House
800
00:42:01.969 --> 00:42:05.170
Democrats won't be helping Republicans deal with government funding or
801
00:42:05.210 --> 00:42:09.079
the debt limit unless they undo the Trump's federal spending freeze,
802
00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:12.440
and potentially other concessions. What do you think about that?
803
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.239
That strikes me as the most effective move because it's
804
00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:17.219
probably the one piece of leverage the Democrats have.
805
00:42:17.469 --> 00:42:21.429
Yeah, this runs very counter to everything I've ever said
806
00:42:21.469 --> 00:42:25.449
before in my career, but Democrats should absolutely, in my view,
807
00:42:26.309 --> 00:42:27.429
hold the debt ceiling hostage.
808
00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:30.829
Me too. And now- We're in a new time.
809
00:42:31.050 --> 00:42:33.489
But it's also, it is different. To be fair, before
810
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:35.719
all the people who are yelling hypocrite at us come
811
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.030
at us, is Democrats are not in the same position
812
00:42:38.090 --> 00:42:41.039
that McCarthy was with Biden or Boehner was with Obama.
813
00:42:41.340 --> 00:42:44.679
Democrats don't control the floor and there are enough Republican
814
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:45.719
votes to extend the debt ceiling.
815
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:46.300
Yep.
816
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:50.219
They do not need a single Democratic vote. If Mike
817
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.599
Johnson and Donald Trump are unable to get the votes
818
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.800
they need and they want a Democratic vote, they're going
819
00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:56.809
to have to give us something very significant for it.
820
00:42:57.820 --> 00:42:58.960
This is on them. It's not.
821
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.380
And by the way, we're not saying give us something like,
822
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.139
give us universal healthcare and we'll raise them. It's like,
823
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:10.280
stop fucking... shutting down payments that Congress lawfully appropriated.
824
00:43:10.300 --> 00:43:11.860
Yes, this is a very important point.
825
00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:17.650
Stop letting 25-year-old racists access to the fucking Treasury payment system,
826
00:43:17.929 --> 00:43:18.769
you assholes.
827
00:43:18.969 --> 00:43:23.349
Yeah, this is not Ted Cruz demanding the defunding of
828
00:43:23.469 --> 00:43:27.329
the Affordable Care Act. This is asking for the government
829
00:43:27.369 --> 00:43:30.269
to spend the money appropriated by Congress the way Congress
830
00:43:30.329 --> 00:43:34.610
wanted it to be appropriated. in, mind you, bipartisan budget deals, right?
831
00:43:34.969 --> 00:43:39.409
We are not even asking, although we could, for Donald
832
00:43:39.429 --> 00:43:42.190
Trump to spend all the money that Hakeem Jeffries, Chuck Schumer,
833
00:43:42.250 --> 00:43:43.909
and Joe Biden sent his way. That's not even it.
834
00:43:44.210 --> 00:43:47.190
These are all deals signed off on by Mitch McConnell,
835
00:43:47.230 --> 00:43:51.539
Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, Mike Johnson. That's all we're asking.
836
00:43:51.940 --> 00:43:56.360
But no Democrat should vote for the debt ceiling absent
837
00:43:56.500 --> 00:43:59.039
a significant set of concessions from the Republicans.
838
00:44:00.340 --> 00:44:00.679
Yeah.
839
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.860
You want the debt ceiling votes? Go talk to Chip Roy,
840
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:05.449
who's probably not going to give you a yes vote
841
00:44:05.489 --> 00:44:07.909
on that because it doesn't cut enough, which is for
842
00:44:07.949 --> 00:44:10.909
him most of government. Go yell at him. Go talk
843
00:44:10.929 --> 00:44:13.150
to the Freedom Caucus. They're the ones who are going
844
00:44:13.170 --> 00:44:15.150
to vote no on this. Don't fucking talk to Democrats
845
00:44:15.170 --> 00:44:18.809
when you are violating the law and refuse to be
846
00:44:18.849 --> 00:44:20.300
held accountable by anyone.
847
00:44:21.090 --> 00:44:25.119
I think Democrats should adopt as a general approach, essentially
848
00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:28.599
a no layups rule. Everything you want to do, we're
849
00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:29.159
going to make harder.
850
00:44:29.980 --> 00:44:30.139
Right.
851
00:44:30.219 --> 00:44:32.280
Even if like, it may, you may see, like you
852
00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:35.059
guys did this live stream, the centers were out there, they're,
853
00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:37.079
they're eating up clock and you say, well, what did
854
00:44:37.099 --> 00:44:39.400
that actually get? He is going to get confirmed. You
855
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:42.139
know what it gets us is every single minute that we,
856
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.780
that we're Donald Trump and the Republicans are not able
857
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:46.239
to do what they want to do. It's the minute
858
00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:47.059
they're never going to get back.
859
00:44:47.780 --> 00:44:47.940
Yep.
860
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:48.380
Right.
861
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:51.679
We are burning clock here and we should do on everything.
862
00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:54.309
You delay it. We use every tactic we have and
863
00:44:55.110 --> 00:44:56.650
it's frustrating to people. There are, we don't have a
864
00:44:56.670 --> 00:44:57.889
lot of leverage. We don't have a lot of power.
865
00:44:58.269 --> 00:45:01.889
But everything we do have, you do to delay, to obstruct,
866
00:45:02.010 --> 00:45:04.920
to make it, because there are no other checks, right?
867
00:45:05.019 --> 00:45:06.579
There's no one in the Republican, there are not a
868
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:07.880
people in the Republican Party who are going to stand
869
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.699
up to him. The media cannot do it. The Supreme
870
00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:13.320
Court is on his side. They are trying to run
871
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:16.139
roughshod over how our government works. And we have to
872
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:18.820
use every tool we have to fight back in every
873
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:20.719
way possible. And it's not always going to be satisfying,
874
00:45:21.059 --> 00:45:23.679
but every single little bit helps. That delay, that is
875
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:26.619
one week that Kash Patel is not going to be
876
00:45:26.659 --> 00:45:31.809
able to prosecute Donald Trump's, investigate Donald Trump's political enemies, right?
877
00:45:32.170 --> 00:45:33.570
That seemed like a lot. It's going to seem like
878
00:45:33.590 --> 00:45:35.190
a lot to the people in that we're going to
879
00:45:35.230 --> 00:45:37.750
prosecute that one week. Like that's, it's not the end.
880
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.400
It's not going to solve all of our problems, but
881
00:45:39.460 --> 00:45:41.360
it's the right approach. No layups.
882
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.260
And again, the rest of us don't have to be
883
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:47.099
spectators here. In fact, we shouldn't be spectators. Like the
884
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:48.739
other tool we have is to make a lot of
885
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:51.699
noise about this. And we don't have the megaphone that
886
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.730
Donald Trump and Elon have, you know, we have some numbers.
887
00:45:55.449 --> 00:45:57.829
And everyone has, you always say this, everyone has the
888
00:45:57.849 --> 00:46:00.230
potential in their own life to talk to friends and
889
00:46:00.309 --> 00:46:03.230
colleagues and post. And we all have platforms and it
890
00:46:03.550 --> 00:46:05.849
doesn't matter how big your following is. Like we, we
891
00:46:05.869 --> 00:46:07.829
got to get up off the mat here and actually
892
00:46:07.849 --> 00:46:11.030
start fighting. And, um, I know that like, you know,
893
00:46:11.050 --> 00:46:14.139
there was an Axios story that, uh, Democrats were getting
894
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:18.059
like deluged with calls and, uh, to like ask them
895
00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:19.920
to fight. And I think that some of the democratic
896
00:46:19.940 --> 00:46:21.800
politicians are like, okay, we are, what else do you
897
00:46:21.820 --> 00:46:23.920
want us to do? Like, Call some of the Republicans,
898
00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:27.480
the House Republicans in vulnerable districts so we can take
899
00:46:27.500 --> 00:46:32.530
the House back. Call their offices. Go protest outside their offices. Because, like,
900
00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:35.449
you know, we got to... The Democrats, they get it now.
901
00:46:35.489 --> 00:46:38.409
They don't have much power because they didn't win. And,
902
00:46:38.469 --> 00:46:40.150
you know, if they're backing off and not even putting
903
00:46:40.170 --> 00:46:41.489
up a fight, then, yeah, we should yell at them.
904
00:46:41.530 --> 00:46:43.989
But right now, they're trying to fight. Okay, when we
905
00:46:44.010 --> 00:46:45.780
come back from the break, you'll hear Tommy's interview with
906
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.500
a very tired Brian Schatz, who just talked through the night.
907
00:46:48.940 --> 00:46:51.219
Two quick things before we do that. Latest episode of
908
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.960
Polar Coaster... Dan, what's the latest episode like?
909
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:57.320
Well, we talked a lot about where Trump stands right now,
910
00:46:57.380 --> 00:47:00.570
some of the weakness in his numbers, how all his
911
00:47:00.610 --> 00:47:04.170
various executive orders and policies are polling, and some sense
912
00:47:04.190 --> 00:47:07.030
of where Democrats go from here. And Caroline Reston floats
913
00:47:07.670 --> 00:47:10.809
a very notable former Bravo personality as a Democratic nominee
914
00:47:11.650 --> 00:47:12.429
in 2028.
915
00:47:12.429 --> 00:47:15.130
Wow. Okay. Now that's, look, if that isn't reason enough
916
00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:17.510
to tune in, and if you're not listening to Polo
917
00:47:17.530 --> 00:47:20.539
Coaster because you're not yet a subscriber, Go to Crooked.com
918
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:23.460
slash friends and subscribe. You can get ad-free episodes of
919
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:25.579
Pod Save America and more, a lot of other series.
920
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And for a limited time, you can get a seven-day
921
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.079
free trial. Just go to Crooked.com slash friends, or you
922
00:47:30.099 --> 00:47:33.699
can subscribe directly on the Pod Save America Apple podcast feed. Also,
923
00:47:33.699 --> 00:47:37.949
20% off now, all t-shirts at the Crooked store. Go
924
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to Crooked.com slash store to shop before the sale ends.
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Got all kinds of great merch there, and you can
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00:47:42.769 --> 00:47:45.849
get 20% off right now, all t-shirts. When we come back,
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00:47:46.289 --> 00:47:46.809
Brian Schatz.
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00:47:56.539 --> 00:47:58.840
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of them use it in the morning to kind of
948
00:48:51.889 --> 00:48:53.929
figure out a meal plan for the day. Some people
949
00:48:54.030 --> 00:48:56.130
use it before and after to work out, just like
950
00:48:56.170 --> 00:48:58.389
see how hard they went or see the impact or
951
00:48:58.429 --> 00:49:01.190
see things they can tweak. It's just a really cool, fun,
952
00:49:01.230 --> 00:49:03.389
new piece of data that you can incorporate into your
953
00:49:03.429 --> 00:49:05.489
fitness regime and just, you know, have a little more,
954
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:08.500
a little more understanding of what's going on. Your metabolism
955
00:49:08.539 --> 00:49:10.599
is your body's engine. It's how your body turns the
956
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:12.980
food you eat into fuel that keeps you going because
957
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.380
your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does.
958
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.150
Optimal metabolic health translates into a bunch of benefits, including
959
00:49:19.250 --> 00:49:39.940
easier weight gain Thank you for watching. Thank you, Lumen,
960
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:46.250
for sponsoring this episode. I am excited to welcome to
961
00:49:46.269 --> 00:49:50.070
the show a great friend of the podcast, Hawaii Senator
962
00:49:50.170 --> 00:49:50.769
Brian Schatz.
963
00:49:50.789 --> 00:49:51.349
How are you, Senator?
964
00:49:51.650 --> 00:49:56.250
I'm doing fine. We're mobilized. We're motivated. We're a little
965
00:49:56.289 --> 00:49:58.139
tired from the overnight, but we're doing fine.
966
00:49:58.489 --> 00:50:01.340
I was going to say, you're fresh off a democracy bender.
967
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:06.059
Senate Democrats held the floor for about 30 hours, I believe.
968
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:08.550
First question is just how you feeling, but also can
969
00:50:08.570 --> 00:50:10.980
you explain to listeners who didn't catch our live stream
970
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:14.119
yesterday what you and other Senate Democrats have been up to?
971
00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:18.440
Well, we're maximally delaying the vote on Russ, Russ vote
972
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:21.840
to run the Office of Management and Budget. And in
973
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:23.719
order to do that, we, you know, we took to
974
00:50:23.739 --> 00:50:26.559
the floor and basically haven't relinquished it. It will be
975
00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:30.340
done in a couple of hours. And all Democrats are
976
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:33.300
united against Russ vote. I don't think anybody in the
977
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.469
public has ever really paid attention to OMB. But the
978
00:50:36.510 --> 00:50:38.769
reason that this guy is so important is he's one
979
00:50:38.789 --> 00:50:43.449
of the authors of Project 2025. And part of Project
980
00:50:43.449 --> 00:50:47.380
2025 specifically talks about how they think the job of
981
00:50:47.489 --> 00:50:52.179
OMB should be especially powerful, that it should be representing, quote,
982
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.679
the president's mind in all things, like just weird stuff.
983
00:50:56.440 --> 00:50:59.059
And the person who wrote that is Russ Vogt. And
984
00:50:59.099 --> 00:51:01.039
now the person who is going to assume that position
985
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:03.239
is Russ Vogt. This guy is the architect of the
986
00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:08.309
federal funding freeze. He's the architect of illegally dismantling agencies.
987
00:51:08.909 --> 00:51:11.949
He's quite a dangerous character. For those people who thought
988
00:51:11.969 --> 00:51:13.829
they were going to get like, we're going to shake
989
00:51:13.889 --> 00:51:17.730
up Washington and maybe we'll get some mean tweets, they
990
00:51:17.869 --> 00:51:23.079
are setting about to dismantle the American government's capacity to
991
00:51:23.139 --> 00:51:27.400
solve basic problems, not like new programs, but Medicaid, Medicare,
992
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:33.670
Head Start, federal firefighters, VA home loans, the Small Business Administration.
993
00:51:33.750 --> 00:51:36.969
So this is deadly serious. We are fighting back. And
994
00:51:37.030 --> 00:51:40.079
even today, I think there were at least two positive
995
00:51:40.460 --> 00:51:42.880
results in the federal courts. So part of what we're
996
00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:46.280
trying to say to everybody is we will fight where
997
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.159
we can. We are in the minority, which means that
998
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:52.710
we're going to, frankly, lose some of these battles because
999
00:51:52.750 --> 00:51:56.070
it's going to be 53-47 a lot. But we're starting
1000
00:51:56.130 --> 00:51:58.809
to see a mass movement out there in the world
1001
00:51:58.829 --> 00:52:02.179
that that is standing up for democracy. And by the way,
1002
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.239
we are starting to see that, yes, the things that
1003
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:09.179
he is doing are illegal and they are being found
1004
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:12.260
to be illegal and they are being stopped by the courts.
1005
00:52:12.449 --> 00:52:16.530
So one of Trump's magical sort of political powers is
1006
00:52:16.969 --> 00:52:20.349
to get people to believe things that are flatly not
1007
00:52:20.429 --> 00:52:23.730
true about him. And he's trying to EO his way
1008
00:52:23.789 --> 00:52:26.269
around the fact that the stuff that he's doing or
1009
00:52:26.289 --> 00:52:28.610
the stuff that he wants to do is so unpopular,
1010
00:52:28.849 --> 00:52:31.429
there's no way it would get through any legislative body.
1011
00:52:31.469 --> 00:52:33.869
They can't pass a bill. So they just like write
1012
00:52:33.909 --> 00:52:36.929
it down as if that makes it law. That's not
1013
00:52:37.010 --> 00:52:37.949
actually how it works.
1014
00:52:38.389 --> 00:52:39.389
That's not in the constitution.
1015
00:52:39.429 --> 00:52:40.150
Just jot it down.
1016
00:52:41.329 --> 00:52:41.869
Will it to be?
1017
00:52:41.889 --> 00:52:42.849
Yeah.
1018
00:52:42.949 --> 00:52:45.530
Well, you know, you were telling me yesterday that Russ
1019
00:52:45.570 --> 00:52:47.889
Vogt kind of thinks of himself as the hand of
1020
00:52:47.949 --> 00:52:50.510
the king. Is that in the constitution as well? I mean,
1021
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:54.300
there's just, it's just, I was ready for Trump 2.0
1022
00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:58.000
to be bad, but this whole element of, setting up
1023
00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:00.699
this Doge team under Elon Musk and having this young
1024
00:53:00.739 --> 00:53:02.400
group of people that I don't even know if.
1025
00:53:02.380 --> 00:53:05.110
They work for the government or not. They've never been vetted.
1026
00:53:05.139 --> 00:53:06.650
We don't know their names necessarily.
1027
00:53:06.670 --> 00:53:10.809
They're just kind of rampaging through agencies, I guess, trying
1028
00:53:10.849 --> 00:53:13.929
to cut whatever they can whenever they feel like it.
1029
00:53:14.050 --> 00:53:17.329
And it's taken us all, I think, a minute to
1030
00:53:17.389 --> 00:53:18.849
catch up with how radical that is.
1031
00:53:19.170 --> 00:53:22.429
Yeah, that's right. I mean, but also it's so radical
1032
00:53:22.550 --> 00:53:26.369
that it sort of benefits us because, you know, it's
1033
00:53:26.449 --> 00:53:30.510
not the frog being boiled, right? It's the frog being fried.
1034
00:53:30.969 --> 00:53:33.230
And so everybody's kind of like, okay, I'm out of
1035
00:53:33.269 --> 00:53:37.090
my slumber now, right? There is no ability to relax.
1036
00:53:37.130 --> 00:53:40.449
There is no ability for anybody to claim, well, why
1037
00:53:40.489 --> 00:53:42.980
don't you guys give him a chance? Or, and there's
1038
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:46.400
no ability for even the punditocracy to like stroke their
1039
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:49.760
chins and say, there the Democrats go again. I can't
1040
00:53:49.780 --> 00:53:53.480
believe they're overreacting. This is no big deal. He's basically
1041
00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:57.480
a normal Republican and they're complaining about outcomes. but they
1042
00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.409
don't like the outcome. So they're saying democracy is at stake.
1043
00:54:00.969 --> 00:54:06.309
Nobody can credibly claim that what's happening is, um, is legal.
1044
00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:10.710
And they have a very specific theory of action, which is,
1045
00:54:10.750 --> 00:54:13.550
you know, as they talked about, you know, muzzle speed
1046
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:17.079
flood the zone, but you know, that's a fancy way
1047
00:54:17.139 --> 00:54:19.960
of saying we're going to do a ton of illegal stuff, uh,
1048
00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:22.340
at the same time and see if like one or
1049
00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:24.780
two of them will stick. And, You know, I thought
1050
00:54:24.860 --> 00:54:28.440
Ezra Klein last Sunday wrote a very nice piece called
1051
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:32.320
Don't Believe Him. And I think he got criticized, you know,
1052
00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:39.480
by the Internet for being too casual about the Trump presidency.
1053
00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:41.380
And that's not how I took it. I think we
1054
00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:45.420
should be totally alarmed. But we also shouldn't concede our
1055
00:54:45.500 --> 00:54:49.539
power away, either our people power or our ability to
1056
00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:51.880
win in the courts or our ability to at least
1057
00:54:51.980 --> 00:54:55.510
gum up the works legislatively. There's this sense that the
1058
00:54:55.570 --> 00:54:58.349
coolest thing on the left to do is to catastrophize
1059
00:54:58.409 --> 00:55:01.489
and say we've already lost, that the Democrats are hopeless,
1060
00:55:01.849 --> 00:55:04.710
that the movement is dead, and that ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
1061
00:55:05.170 --> 00:55:08.050
I'm so left that I don't even want to participate
1062
00:55:08.130 --> 00:55:11.599
in the left anymore. And I think everyone, like normal
1063
00:55:11.659 --> 00:55:13.679
people who want to fight for our democracy and fight
1064
00:55:13.699 --> 00:55:16.159
for our country are saying, yeah, enough of that bullshit.
1065
00:55:16.710 --> 00:55:19.769
Activism is not just getting into someone's replies and saying,
1066
00:55:19.829 --> 00:55:22.860
why aren't you fighting harder? It's figuring out how you
1067
00:55:22.949 --> 00:55:25.199
personally can fight harder. And I think one of the
1068
00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:29.300
places that I've seen over the last week, real courage
1069
00:55:29.340 --> 00:55:31.679
is within the federal government. A bunch of people are
1070
00:55:31.699 --> 00:55:38.389
starting to disobey, or I should say, decline to execute
1071
00:55:38.590 --> 00:55:44.739
illegal orders, to establish themselves as whistleblowers. to stand in
1072
00:55:44.820 --> 00:55:48.780
front of federal buildings and protest, which is not risk-free.
1073
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:51.380
But I think once you start to see each other,
1074
00:55:52.099 --> 00:55:55.849
there really is strength and safety in numbers. And I
1075
00:55:56.630 --> 00:55:59.030
don't want to get too philosophical about this, but I
1076
00:55:59.070 --> 00:56:02.170
just do think there's something very important about showing up
1077
00:56:02.329 --> 00:56:04.280
in real life when you start to see each other
1078
00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.440
on the street and not just intermediated through an app.
1079
00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:11.159
that you go, okay, I got friends here. This is real.
1080
00:56:11.780 --> 00:56:15.079
I'm in. Let's go. We're going to win this thing.
1081
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:17.340
We may be getting our butts kicked for the next
1082
00:56:17.380 --> 00:56:21.940
six weeks, but six weeks is not six years. And
1083
00:56:22.059 --> 00:56:27.329
other Americans have faced other challenges to the American experiment,
1084
00:56:27.789 --> 00:56:31.070
and they did not simply tweet, we're cooked. They fought
1085
00:56:31.130 --> 00:56:33.590
like hell, and they continued the experiment.
1086
00:56:34.429 --> 00:56:34.860
Listen, I.
1087
00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:38.280
You and I both spend some time on Twitter. I
1088
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.860
think I know the kind of frustration you're feeling, the
1089
00:56:40.900 --> 00:56:43.860
kind of tone you're talking about where people are somehow
1090
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:47.039
blaming the Democratic Party for everything.
1091
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:49.389
That Donald Trump is doing. And it's exhausting.
1092
00:56:49.550 --> 00:56:50.090
It's frustrating.
1093
00:56:50.130 --> 00:56:52.429
But let's just sort of talk about the tension and
1094
00:56:52.449 --> 00:56:54.449
the anger. I mean, Democrats are pretty angry right now.
1095
00:56:55.030 --> 00:56:57.349
We're angry at Trump, angry at what he's doing. We're
1096
00:56:57.369 --> 00:56:59.730
angry at Joe Biden for putting us in this place.
1097
00:57:00.750 --> 00:57:02.869
And as you mentioned, a lot of people are lashing
1098
00:57:03.030 --> 00:57:06.659
out at Democrats in Congress for not doing more. So
1099
00:57:06.699 --> 00:57:10.840
help me just set expectations a bit. What power do
1100
00:57:10.900 --> 00:57:14.079
Democrats in the Senate actually have? What can we do
1101
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.059
to block some of Trump's actions? And what is just
1102
00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:20.760
gonna have to be messaging to create a political cost
1103
00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:23.460
down the road to some of the things Trump is doing?
1104
00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:25.599
Well, think of it this way. There are certain things
1105
00:57:25.659 --> 00:57:29.900
that need 51 votes and certain things that need 60.
1106
00:57:29.900 --> 00:57:32.889
So anytime it's 51 votes, All we can do is
1107
00:57:32.949 --> 00:57:35.750
make our best case and delay them a little. And
1108
00:57:35.789 --> 00:57:40.250
by a little, I mean 15 minutes, 27 minutes, 45 minutes,
1109
00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:44.030
sometimes not at all. And, you know, we can make
1110
00:57:44.050 --> 00:57:46.829
a nuisance of ourselves in small ways, but that's not
1111
00:57:46.869 --> 00:57:50.429
really changing either public opinion or the situation on the ground.
1112
00:57:50.449 --> 00:57:54.619
They're not getting their cabinet any slower if we do
1113
00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:57.119
minor procedural roadblocks. And by the way, we are doing
1114
00:57:57.179 --> 00:57:58.260
all of the, you know, in and out of a
1115
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:01.489
quorum call or in and out of executive session, but
1116
00:58:01.510 --> 00:58:05.079
there's no magic bullet called slow them down. Remember that
1117
00:58:05.099 --> 00:58:09.340
the people talking about Mitch McConnell's obstructionism are talking about
1118
00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:13.300
an era when the cabinet needed 60 votes. Now the
1119
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:17.780
cabinet needs 51 and they've got 53. So everybody needs
1120
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:21.460
to understand they're very likely to get their entire cabinet.
1121
00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:23.760
And all we can do is scream bloody murder about
1122
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:26.880
how dangerous this is. Then there comes a point this year,
1123
00:58:26.980 --> 00:58:29.699
and it's not that long from now, when they need
1124
00:58:29.699 --> 00:58:32.860
60 votes for regular legislation. And that's when Democrats are
1125
00:58:32.920 --> 00:58:37.219
very relevant because they need seven more than 53. And
1126
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:41.360
that's when the Democratic senators can exert some authority and
1127
00:58:41.469 --> 00:58:45.070
use some leverage. I'm not prepared to sort of tell
1128
00:58:45.110 --> 00:58:48.730
you exactly how we're going to do that because frankly,
1129
00:58:48.769 --> 00:58:53.170
we have to become united and that's a leadership call,
1130
00:58:53.210 --> 00:58:57.900
that's a joint decision, but we're not casual about those
1131
00:58:57.980 --> 00:59:01.360
moments in time when we actually do have like raw
1132
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.449
leverage to push back on what's happening. Right now, we
1133
00:59:05.489 --> 00:59:09.570
have very little ability to stop them. And the best
1134
00:59:09.610 --> 00:59:12.199
thing we can do do is, as you say, make
1135
00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:16.400
them own these votes. I do not think the RFK Jr.
1136
00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.670
yes vote is going to age well. I don't think
1137
00:59:20.809 --> 00:59:24.170
the Pete Hegseth vote is going to age well. Obviously,
1138
00:59:24.230 --> 00:59:27.809
Kash Patel and all the rest of it. But I'll
1139
00:59:28.050 --> 00:59:31.889
also just say that To be fair to folks who
1140
00:59:31.969 --> 00:59:35.769
are frustrated, you know, they're not sure what we're supposed
1141
00:59:35.789 --> 00:59:37.610
to be doing, but they know we're not supposed to
1142
00:59:37.650 --> 00:59:40.349
be doing nothing, right? And so one of the reasons
1143
00:59:40.389 --> 00:59:43.179
that people were, I think, fired up at this 30
1144
00:59:43.179 --> 00:59:46.420
hours on the floor is like it was something. We're fighting.
1145
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:49.380
We're showing some fight. We understand the urgency of the moment.
1146
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:52.860
But it's like the old, you know, Steve Jobs used
1147
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:56.139
to say, people don't know what they want until you
1148
00:59:56.199 --> 00:59:58.949
show it to them. It is not their job to say,
1149
00:59:59.010 --> 01:00:01.090
why don't you put the Senate in a quorum call?
1150
01:00:01.510 --> 01:00:04.190
Because I take that as a, I'm at the end
1151
01:00:04.210 --> 01:00:06.150
of my rope. Would you please tell me what you're
1152
01:00:06.190 --> 01:00:09.710
doing here? And let me just tell you my theory
1153
01:00:09.750 --> 01:00:12.130
of change here. Yes, we can gum up the works
1154
01:00:12.170 --> 01:00:15.889
and we should. Yes, we will have actual raw leverage
1155
01:00:15.949 --> 01:00:18.190
on the vote count later. And we should use that
1156
01:00:18.849 --> 01:00:23.190
as ruthlessly and aggressively as we can. I also think,
1157
01:00:23.510 --> 01:00:26.070
you know, let's not underestimate the power of the federal
1158
01:00:26.110 --> 01:00:30.039
courts to declare and this has already borne fruit, what
1159
01:00:30.460 --> 01:00:33.579
the president of the United States is doing as flatly illegal,
1160
01:00:34.019 --> 01:00:39.280
and to enjoin and stop those actions. And then I
1161
01:00:39.340 --> 01:00:43.369
think we also have to, together, as citizens, build a
1162
01:00:43.429 --> 01:00:46.769
mass movement, because when you're fighting autocracy, and you know
1163
01:00:46.789 --> 01:00:51.449
this as well as anybody, you need the legitimacy of
1164
01:00:51.570 --> 01:00:54.619
people on your side. So it's not just us fighting
1165
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:57.670
and then people either cheering us on or not cheering
1166
01:00:57.710 --> 01:01:00.389
us on, you know, on social media. People need to
1167
01:01:00.449 --> 01:01:02.780
see each other in three dimension. It has to be
1168
01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:05.480
tens of thousands of people. It has to be peaceful.
1169
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.099
We have to have the moral high ground. But the
1170
01:01:08.179 --> 01:01:13.059
way to beat autocracy is not just like legislative maneuvering.
1171
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:16.719
It's actual people power. And let's not forget that.
1172
01:01:16.969 --> 01:01:17.659
Yeah, that's well said.
1173
01:01:18.610 --> 01:01:19.150
And I agree with you.
1174
01:01:19.170 --> 01:01:21.949
I think that that RFK vote is going to age
1175
01:01:21.989 --> 01:01:23.969
like a vat of raw milk that we might be
1176
01:01:23.989 --> 01:01:24.889
available in stores soon.
1177
01:01:25.349 --> 01:01:26.329
Let's talk about you personally.
1178
01:01:26.730 --> 01:01:29.530
One way you have used your power is you've put
1179
01:01:29.570 --> 01:01:31.949
a hold on all of Trump's State Department nominees over
1180
01:01:32.010 --> 01:01:37.110
this Elon Musk-led effort to illegally gut USAID. Can you
1181
01:01:37.389 --> 01:01:39.980
give listeners just a quick explanation of what does that
1182
01:01:40.059 --> 01:01:40.980
mean in practice?
1183
01:01:41.739 --> 01:01:44.500
And also, what are you asking Trump.
1184
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:47.039
To do that will get you to release these holds
1185
01:01:47.059 --> 01:01:47.539
going forward?
1186
01:01:47.900 --> 01:01:49.760
What it means in practice is that there are a
1187
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:53.280
bunch of State Department nominations because, let me back up.
1188
01:01:54.440 --> 01:02:00.650
A lot of these nominations are mandatory, um, two hours. Um,
1189
01:02:00.809 --> 01:02:02.869
and so that doesn't sound like a long time, but
1190
01:02:02.909 --> 01:02:06.050
there are, you know, hundreds and hundreds of them. So when,
1191
01:02:06.090 --> 01:02:09.619
for instance, Tuberville held up all the military nominations, these
1192
01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:12.360
are like a two star becoming a three star. There
1193
01:02:12.380 --> 01:02:14.820
were a thousand of them. And some folks were like,
1194
01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:17.019
why don't you go to the floor and just start
1195
01:02:17.079 --> 01:02:19.460
plowing through them? And the answer is because it's a
1196
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:23.679
thousand nominations times two hours we would have been in
1197
01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:26.860
the Senate for a year and a half confirming a
1198
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.960
bunch of, you know, rear admirals and literally have no
1199
01:02:31.019 --> 01:02:33.909
time for anything else. And so it does gum up
1200
01:02:33.929 --> 01:02:38.610
their ability to get ambassadors and assistant secretaries through, but
1201
01:02:38.750 --> 01:02:41.469
anyone they really want to get through, they just allocate
1202
01:02:41.510 --> 01:02:44.610
the time and do it. And my, I haven't actually
1203
01:02:44.820 --> 01:02:47.119
said this anywhere else because I just, I issued the
1204
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:49.940
press release sort of without going through too much of
1205
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:52.519
a Internal policy planning progress.
1206
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:52.820
Okay.
1207
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:54.280
I just sort of it's very Trumpy interview.
1208
01:02:54.300 --> 01:02:54.670
I like it.
1209
01:02:54.989 --> 01:02:57.429
Well quite Trumpy I mean I have with me but
1210
01:02:57.449 --> 01:02:58.750
I just told him this is what I wanted to do.
1211
01:02:59.389 --> 01:03:03.010
Um Look, I am actually a little more willing than
1212
01:03:03.050 --> 01:03:07.909
people may know to have a negotiation about how USAID
1213
01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:13.039
is done and I think that it's not unreasonable to
1214
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:15.639
ask the question if we've got the Belt and Road
1215
01:03:16.099 --> 01:03:19.079
and everybody watches what China is doing and and says, wow,
1216
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:21.780
that's really smart that they're all around the world helping folks,
1217
01:03:21.820 --> 01:03:27.059
but it's also aligned with their economic and geopolitical, geostrategic objectives.
1218
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:31.619
USAID does some of that, but there's an argument and
1219
01:03:31.659 --> 01:03:35.199
it's been on a bipartisan basis that sometimes USAID is
1220
01:03:35.260 --> 01:03:38.000
even at cross purposes with the State Department. So I'm
1221
01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:42.719
open to better alignment. I'm also open to the idea
1222
01:03:43.340 --> 01:03:46.650
that we should reduce overhead. I think wherever we can
1223
01:03:46.730 --> 01:03:49.869
reduce overhead, We should. And I'm also open to the
1224
01:03:49.909 --> 01:03:52.429
idea that, yes, there's some civil society stuff that we
1225
01:03:52.449 --> 01:03:55.820
should be funding. But, you know, I'm not sure we
1226
01:03:55.840 --> 01:04:00.659
should ever fund an opera overseas if we haven't gotten
1227
01:04:00.860 --> 01:04:03.539
everybody who needs a mosquito net, a mosquito net. So
1228
01:04:03.659 --> 01:04:08.239
I am actually open minded to reforms if they're done through,
1229
01:04:08.659 --> 01:04:12.429
you know, a regular legislative process. I've just told everybody
1230
01:04:12.449 --> 01:04:16.190
I will only arrive at the negotiating table once the
1231
01:04:16.250 --> 01:04:20.789
agency is reopened. And right now they're shuttering the whole place.
1232
01:04:20.869 --> 01:04:25.280
I mean, just flatly legally, it is an extraordinary thing
1233
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:29.400
they're doing. They are bringing, you know, thousands and thousands
1234
01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:34.219
of patriotic Americans, skilled Americans who have set up a
1235
01:04:34.300 --> 01:04:37.820
life in wherever it is, right? In Asia or South
1236
01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:40.510
America or Central America or Africa or wherever it is.
1237
01:04:41.429 --> 01:04:44.110
They brought their family there. And then they just got
1238
01:04:44.130 --> 01:04:46.230
this email saying, you're coming home within the next 30 days.
1239
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:50.719
It's just a rotten thing to do to humans. But also,
1240
01:04:51.340 --> 01:04:54.530
we may end up with eight people from our primary
1241
01:04:54.670 --> 01:04:57.269
development agency in all of Asia.
1242
01:04:58.150 --> 01:04:59.550
This is nuts.
1243
01:04:59.710 --> 01:05:07.909
There's Marburg's disease in Tanzania. There's Ebola in Uganda. So
1244
01:05:08.389 --> 01:05:10.570
I actually think this is going to back up on
1245
01:05:10.630 --> 01:05:13.050
Donald Trump. And I know there's some conventional wisdom knocking
1246
01:05:13.090 --> 01:05:15.940
around that foreign aid, people don't care about it. And
1247
01:05:15.980 --> 01:05:18.820
I stipulate to the idea that if you took a poll,
1248
01:05:19.659 --> 01:05:22.980
most people would not rank foreign aid as their top priority.
1249
01:05:23.420 --> 01:05:25.510
But it's one of those things where like, also people
1250
01:05:25.550 --> 01:05:29.030
wouldn't rank the FAA as their top priority. People don't
1251
01:05:29.070 --> 01:05:32.789
rank food inspections as their top priority until any of
1252
01:05:32.829 --> 01:05:36.849
those things cause a disruption at home, a lack of
1253
01:05:36.909 --> 01:05:39.889
stability and safety at home. And I think, you know,
1254
01:05:40.090 --> 01:05:45.099
these diseases are No, no political or geographic boundaries. And
1255
01:05:45.619 --> 01:05:48.099
this is a very serious situation.
1256
01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:51.880
Yeah, no, look, I understand this. I have the same
1257
01:05:51.900 --> 01:05:53.699
sort of tension in my head as you do, where
1258
01:05:54.300 --> 01:05:57.230
I worked in the national security world. I've seen the
1259
01:05:57.329 --> 01:06:02.110
amazing good that organizations funded by USAID can do. I've
1260
01:06:02.150 --> 01:06:07.449
also seen the agency as a whole feel bureaucratic and slow,
1261
01:06:07.769 --> 01:06:09.150
and it can be frustrating at times.
1262
01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:10.059
But you're right.
1263
01:06:10.099 --> 01:06:14.079
I mean, there are specific examples of programs being run
1264
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:20.210
by USAID like tracking highly contagious, deadly diseases all.
1265
01:06:20.110 --> 01:06:20.630
Around the world.
1266
01:06:20.670 --> 01:06:25.250
You mentioned too Marburg, which is like Ebola without a vaccine, basically,
1267
01:06:25.389 --> 01:06:26.610
is sort of how it's been described to me.
1268
01:06:26.909 --> 01:06:27.590
There's Ebola.
1269
01:06:27.929 --> 01:06:30.710
There's this bird flu outbreak that seems to be everywhere
1270
01:06:30.750 --> 01:06:33.170
all of a sudden. And if suddenly we're just flying
1271
01:06:33.210 --> 01:06:35.369
blind to this stuff and you can trace it back
1272
01:06:35.409 --> 01:06:38.800
to cuts to USAID, that is an incredibly powerful message.
1273
01:06:39.380 --> 01:06:39.739
Yeah.
1274
01:06:39.880 --> 01:06:42.579
I mean, and you know, look, I mean, I'm not
1275
01:06:42.619 --> 01:06:45.019
rooting for Donald Trump, but I am trying to solve
1276
01:06:45.059 --> 01:06:47.480
this problem. And so, you know, one of the things
1277
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.780
I've said to Republican colleagues is like, I get that
1278
01:06:50.820 --> 01:06:52.659
foreign aid is not on the top of your list,
1279
01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:56.239
except when we have our first Ebola case, you know,
1280
01:06:56.380 --> 01:06:58.739
in the United States. And so, and people are going
1281
01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:01.750
to say, wait, what the hell? We don't monitor this anymore. Or,
1282
01:07:01.829 --> 01:07:04.469
you know, PEPFAR is shut down and PEPFAR is shut down.
1283
01:07:04.869 --> 01:07:08.960
The HIV AIDS prevention program, which has save tens of
1284
01:07:09.019 --> 01:07:12.519
millions of lives is shut down. It's technically not, but
1285
01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:16.480
the problem is that, um, you know, everyone's shut out
1286
01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:20.159
of their email. Literally people can't even operate. They've been
1287
01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:24.079
sent home and nominally in order to like pretend to
1288
01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:28.530
not violate federal civil service laws and other laws, they're saying,
1289
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.449
we'll still pay you, please work from home. But then
1290
01:07:31.469 --> 01:07:33.289
they shut them out of their emails, which I, but
1291
01:07:33.389 --> 01:07:36.090
by the way is, you know, I'm not a lawyer,
1292
01:07:36.130 --> 01:07:39.590
but I'm smart enough to understand this. It's one thing
1293
01:07:39.630 --> 01:07:42.429
to send people home to telework, but if you don't
1294
01:07:42.489 --> 01:07:44.900
have a reason to do that and then you shut
1295
01:07:44.940 --> 01:07:47.500
them out of their ability to work, then it's all
1296
01:07:47.539 --> 01:07:50.159
a pretext, right? And then you are just de facto
1297
01:07:50.219 --> 01:07:53.739
shutting down the agency. And that's why I'm very, very
1298
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:56.269
confident that this will also be found to be in
1299
01:07:56.309 --> 01:08:00.690
violation of the law. But this one in particular, USAID,
1300
01:08:00.750 --> 01:08:03.329
it's an arson job, right? The other ones, they're trying
1301
01:08:03.349 --> 01:08:06.190
to see what they can get away with, NSF. Small
1302
01:08:06.210 --> 01:08:09.929
Business Administration, VA, and it's really super damaging. This one,
1303
01:08:09.949 --> 01:08:12.139
they want to, I think they know they only have
1304
01:08:12.159 --> 01:08:15.420
a couple more days before the full freak out happens
1305
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:18.420
with the media and international attention. And by the way,
1306
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:20.819
we have, sorry to get all fired up here, but
1307
01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:23.300
we have the Munich Security Conference next week. We have
1308
01:08:23.319 --> 01:08:25.840
a bipartisan delegation of United States senators.
1309
01:08:26.300 --> 01:08:26.539
J.D.
1310
01:08:26.579 --> 01:08:29.250
Vance is going to be there. I'm assuming Secretary Rubio
1311
01:08:29.310 --> 01:08:31.329
is going to be there. All we're going to spend
1312
01:08:31.369 --> 01:08:33.729
our time doing is getting yelled at. Why did you
1313
01:08:33.810 --> 01:08:39.850
shut off the primary armed of goodwill internationally. So usually
1314
01:08:39.930 --> 01:08:44.630
the Munich Security Conference is a three-dimensional example of why
1315
01:08:45.170 --> 01:08:49.029
America remains the indispensable nation. Everybody's hanging on our every word.
1316
01:08:49.409 --> 01:08:53.449
Everyone wants to know what direction we're going in. And
1317
01:08:53.529 --> 01:08:55.289
I think it's not going to be that. I think
1318
01:08:55.329 --> 01:08:58.029
we're going to get just, I mean, people will be polite,
1319
01:08:58.090 --> 01:09:02.449
some of them, but whether it's africa or asia or
1320
01:09:03.189 --> 01:09:06.220
central europe or anywhere else people are just getting the
1321
01:09:06.270 --> 01:09:08.920
first item on their list when we have our bilateral
1322
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:11.500
meetings is what the hell did you do to pepfar
1323
01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:14.180
what the hell did you do to disease prevention what
1324
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:16.520
the hell did you do to foreign military financing or
1325
01:09:16.579 --> 01:09:20.109
any of the economic supports um This is such small
1326
01:09:20.170 --> 01:09:23.090
money in the scheme of things that we need to
1327
01:09:23.149 --> 01:09:24.890
understand it for what it is. It is not a
1328
01:09:24.989 --> 01:09:32.420
budget or fiscal question. This is a America first policy, right?
1329
01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:36.600
What they want is for us to recede from the
1330
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:39.260
rest of the world. They want our government to be
1331
01:09:39.340 --> 01:09:42.680
about half as big. They want it to do way
1332
01:09:42.779 --> 01:09:46.279
fewer things. And they want, I mean, it is a
1333
01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:49.699
quite radical vision. They don't want FEMA to exist. They
1334
01:09:49.720 --> 01:09:54.000
think the FAA should have AI doing air traffic control.
1335
01:09:54.020 --> 01:09:58.970
I mean, it's a very creepy, radical vision. And I'm
1336
01:09:59.010 --> 01:10:02.090
not sure Donald Trump cares one way or another about
1337
01:10:02.130 --> 01:10:05.210
all this, but he is letting these, you know, combination
1338
01:10:05.250 --> 01:10:08.810
of these sort of, you know, oligarch tech dudes and whatever,
1339
01:10:09.510 --> 01:10:14.069
and some old school right wing think tank people just
1340
01:10:14.090 --> 01:10:15.590
kind of have the run of the place.
1341
01:10:16.390 --> 01:10:16.649
Yeah.
1342
01:10:16.670 --> 01:10:18.529
And just on the foreign aid piece, I mean, a
1343
01:10:18.569 --> 01:10:20.909
lot of this is money that has been dispersed and
1344
01:10:20.970 --> 01:10:23.619
is budgeted, you know, and if we are helping fund
1345
01:10:23.659 --> 01:10:27.659
some major component of the government in Jordan, for example,
1346
01:10:27.739 --> 01:10:31.260
we can like rug pull them once on actually providing
1347
01:10:31.300 --> 01:10:35.199
that funding before we lose our influence with that government
1348
01:10:35.300 --> 01:10:38.510
in that country forever. So this is incredibly damaging no
1349
01:10:38.529 --> 01:10:39.529
matter how it.
1350
01:10:39.510 --> 01:10:39.970
Kind of ends.
1351
01:10:40.170 --> 01:10:42.149
But you mentioned your Republican colleagues. I mean, look, they
1352
01:10:42.170 --> 01:10:44.670
like foreign aid when it's in the form of bombs.
1353
01:10:45.670 --> 01:10:48.630
They might not talk about USAID, but they think they
1354
01:10:48.649 --> 01:10:51.189
know it's valuable. And there's also some Republicans in the
1355
01:10:51.210 --> 01:10:54.350
Senate that we know hate Donald Trump. Like Mitch McConnell
1356
01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:57.460
hates Donald Trump, famously so. Not enough to do anything
1357
01:10:57.500 --> 01:11:00.140
about it, but he doesn't like him. Susan Collins is
1358
01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:04.800
now complaining publicly about Elon Musk's role being inappropriate.
1359
01:11:05.239 --> 01:11:08.659
In conversations with them, do you think this is going to.
1360
01:11:08.659 --> 01:11:11.229
Shape up being like the first term where these guys
1361
01:11:11.239 --> 01:11:14.270
kind of grumble on background? but then refuse to use
1362
01:11:14.310 --> 01:11:17.590
their power to change anything? Or are people getting more
1363
01:11:17.649 --> 01:11:18.869
worked up? Like, how do you read this?
1364
01:11:19.590 --> 01:11:23.560
I don't know. I just don't know. I've certainly had
1365
01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:28.699
conversations with, I mean, seven to 10 Republicans who have
1366
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:33.840
a real stomachache about this thing in particular, because as
1367
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:38.159
much as I disagree with many of them about almost everything,
1368
01:11:38.180 --> 01:11:41.819
a lot of them don't want, you know, babies dying
1369
01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:45.420
on their conscience. And the question is whether they're going
1370
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:48.229
to exert themselves. So this weekend, the Republican senators are
1371
01:11:48.250 --> 01:11:50.229
going to be meeting with the president. And we'll see.
1372
01:11:50.329 --> 01:11:54.069
I mean, you know, I think it's not a, I mean,
1373
01:11:54.170 --> 01:11:57.970
it's probably a safe bet to assume, no, they will
1374
01:11:58.010 --> 01:12:01.920
not step up. And even if like handicapping wise, maybe
1375
01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:04.439
I still think there will be instances where they stand
1376
01:12:04.500 --> 01:12:07.859
up for, you know, what they think is important. I
1377
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:10.279
think there has to be more time elapsed. And one
1378
01:12:10.300 --> 01:12:13.119
of the conversations I'm having with, you know, some folks is,
1379
01:12:13.699 --> 01:12:15.800
I don't think the question is time elapsed. I think
1380
01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:18.960
it is damage done. And if they're doing the damage
1381
01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:23.239
super quickly, you may not have six months. But I
1382
01:12:23.300 --> 01:12:26.869
think there's also a human psychology element, which is if
1383
01:12:27.090 --> 01:12:29.430
it sort of piles up over six months, it's easier
1384
01:12:29.470 --> 01:12:32.590
to get there to displaying your independence. If it all
1385
01:12:32.649 --> 01:12:36.149
happens at once, it looks like to them, you're immediately
1386
01:12:36.210 --> 01:12:39.289
turning on the newly inaugurated president. So they've got a
1387
01:12:39.369 --> 01:12:43.640
tightrope to walk. Some of them do that more skillfully and, frankly,
1388
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:47.659
more honorably than others. And, you know, my job is
1389
01:12:47.739 --> 01:12:51.140
obviously to articulate, to try to slow them down, to
1390
01:12:51.220 --> 01:12:54.680
articulate to the public, you know, where I think the
1391
01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:57.119
country is going in the wrong direction. And that part,
1392
01:12:57.319 --> 01:12:59.760
on some level, is the easy part. But I still,
1393
01:13:00.020 --> 01:13:02.319
you know, I'm still trying to find three or four
1394
01:13:02.359 --> 01:13:07.560
votes for certain things because that is the job. And
1395
01:13:07.579 --> 01:13:11.020
I think we should all– Hope that our democratic senators
1396
01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:14.079
are in the business of describing how horrific all this
1397
01:13:14.220 --> 01:13:16.279
is in the business of trying to slow it down
1398
01:13:16.619 --> 01:13:19.470
but also in the business of Trying to do the
1399
01:13:19.510 --> 01:13:21.970
senator thing which is to find four votes to stop
1400
01:13:22.029 --> 01:13:24.470
all this crazy shit And if it if it is
1401
01:13:24.670 --> 01:13:28.020
if we're unable to do so then um Then at
1402
01:13:28.060 --> 01:13:31.439
least we know that we've exhausted the possibility and that
1403
01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:34.819
we can go, you know, rhetorically speaking full thermonuclear.
1404
01:13:35.220 --> 01:13:37.590
Yeah Let's talk about the Democratic Party right now because
1405
01:13:37.789 --> 01:13:39.489
we don't have a leader right now, right? Like we
1406
01:13:39.529 --> 01:13:42.649
have former presidents, we have congressional leaders, but there's not
1407
01:13:42.670 --> 01:13:46.149
like a single person guiding the party on messaging and
1408
01:13:46.189 --> 01:13:48.590
policy like you would have if there were a Democrat
1409
01:13:48.609 --> 01:13:51.770
in the White House or a major nominee running for president.
1410
01:13:52.250 --> 01:13:54.510
On top of that, a lot of the Republican leadership
1411
01:13:55.069 --> 01:13:58.449
is getting up there. They don't seem particularly fluent in
1412
01:13:58.550 --> 01:14:02.850
digital media platforms. The messaging can feel a little behind
1413
01:14:02.930 --> 01:14:04.949
the eight ball. Now, I'm saying this to you because
1414
01:14:04.979 --> 01:14:08.479
you're an exception to this. You are young and an
1415
01:14:08.539 --> 01:14:12.560
effective communicator and someone who understands like how to communicate
1416
01:14:12.619 --> 01:14:17.239
in 2025. And I'm just wondering for people who are like, look,
1417
01:14:17.319 --> 01:14:19.439
a lot of us are getting the cringy clips on
1418
01:14:19.460 --> 01:14:22.260
the group chat. What do you say to them about
1419
01:14:22.340 --> 01:14:25.659
the way you are pushing Democrats to evolve and get
1420
01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:27.140
better and be more nimble?
1421
01:14:27.819 --> 01:14:30.140
Look, I remember there was a lot of that kind
1422
01:14:30.180 --> 01:14:33.680
of chatter about Nancy Pelosi as she was speaker. And
1423
01:14:34.020 --> 01:14:37.159
then there were various moments during which we went, ah,
1424
01:14:38.199 --> 01:14:41.859
she's really very good at this. And I just, um,
1425
01:14:42.739 --> 01:14:46.399
Chuck Schumer is really very good at this. Is it
1426
01:14:46.439 --> 01:14:48.619
true that he's new to the internet age? Sure. But
1427
01:14:48.659 --> 01:14:51.970
so am I, frankly. So I just worry about the
1428
01:14:52.029 --> 01:14:56.029
theater criticism part of the job, right? Like we need
1429
01:14:56.050 --> 01:14:56.630
to cheer each other.
1430
01:14:56.649 --> 01:14:57.550
Like it's a theater critic.
1431
01:14:57.590 --> 01:15:01.510
It's like, it's, it's, there's good messaging and there's bad, right?
1432
01:15:01.829 --> 01:15:04.369
Like there's a good... the harder part is getting it
1433
01:15:04.409 --> 01:15:05.970
to the people who need to hear it. And maybe
1434
01:15:06.050 --> 01:15:07.350
if it's so cringy, it gets to them.
1435
01:15:07.369 --> 01:15:07.810
That's good.
1436
01:15:07.850 --> 01:15:10.449
But like, you know, there's like the corny ass chance,
1437
01:15:10.489 --> 01:15:12.670
like we can all just agree that maybe that's not
1438
01:15:12.689 --> 01:15:13.500
going to cut it.
1439
01:15:13.569 --> 01:15:16.689
Right. Well, let me, let me answer the question this way.
1440
01:15:17.649 --> 01:15:22.569
You know, Chuck has designated Cory Booker and Tina Smith
1441
01:15:23.170 --> 01:15:25.890
to kind of get us to be better at digital.
1442
01:15:26.710 --> 01:15:32.079
And look, I think you're exactly identifying the problem, which is,
1443
01:15:32.909 --> 01:15:34.869
We can say exactly the right thing, but if nobody
1444
01:15:34.930 --> 01:15:37.369
sees it, it doesn't matter. And the problem with the
1445
01:15:37.409 --> 01:15:41.100
kind of battle tested way of doing things from the
1446
01:15:41.140 --> 01:15:46.399
past is you pull a thing among the things on
1447
01:15:46.420 --> 01:15:48.619
the list of things you pulled, you pick the one
1448
01:15:48.640 --> 01:15:52.079
that's at 70 and not 67 and not 64. And
1449
01:15:52.100 --> 01:15:54.149
then you say the thing that pulls the best. The
1450
01:15:54.210 --> 01:15:57.670
problem with that model is it's very likely that the
1451
01:15:57.710 --> 01:16:00.149
thing that pulls the best is also the thing that
1452
01:16:00.210 --> 01:16:03.319
is the least offensive. because that's why it polls the best.
1453
01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:06.199
So it's really a kind of lowest common denominator, which
1454
01:16:06.260 --> 01:16:09.859
thing do you find least objectionable? And that might work
1455
01:16:10.060 --> 01:16:12.939
if you're in the mode of making a television commercial
1456
01:16:13.140 --> 01:16:16.319
and basically forcing it into the brains of a bunch
1457
01:16:16.359 --> 01:16:19.000
of viewers, but it will not go viral because it's
1458
01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:20.619
definitionally not interesting.
1459
01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:21.720
Yeah, it's boring.
1460
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:27.039
And so that's where I think Trump is brilliant, right?
1461
01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:30.180
They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats. That was offensive,
1462
01:16:30.300 --> 01:16:33.729
it hurt him in the short run, but he again
1463
01:16:33.890 --> 01:16:37.569
surfaced the question of immigration. And what happens is he
1464
01:16:37.609 --> 01:16:41.340
suffers for two days looking like an idiot, but then
1465
01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:43.460
on the third day people go, yeah, but you know
1466
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:46.079
he's got a point about immigration. And then we're talking
1467
01:16:46.100 --> 01:16:48.039
about the thing that he wanted us to talk about.
1468
01:16:48.100 --> 01:16:52.409
So his ability to command attention is not a trivial thing. Now,
1469
01:16:52.470 --> 01:16:54.829
we have a structural problem, as you pointed out. When
1470
01:16:54.850 --> 01:16:57.310
you're out of power, you just definitionally don't have a
1471
01:16:57.350 --> 01:17:00.020
leader until you have a nominee. We could say it's
1472
01:17:00.039 --> 01:17:02.699
the Democratic Party chairman. We could say it's Chuck. We
1473
01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:04.760
could say it's Hakeem. But the truth is, there's not
1474
01:17:04.779 --> 01:17:07.140
going to be a one person who leads our party
1475
01:17:07.180 --> 01:17:09.130
out of the wilderness. It's got to be all of
1476
01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:12.430
us together. But I will say, we're all getting better
1477
01:17:12.989 --> 01:17:17.140
at communicating online and understanding that Yeah, cable hits are important,
1478
01:17:17.180 --> 01:17:22.760
but there's very, very few undecided voters who are watching
1479
01:17:22.840 --> 01:17:25.020
any of the cable shows. It's not that we shouldn't
1480
01:17:25.039 --> 01:17:27.510
do those anymore. It's just that we should think of
1481
01:17:27.550 --> 01:17:30.970
those as one of the tactics in our toolkit. And
1482
01:17:31.250 --> 01:17:34.909
just by virtue of metrics, we are doing, I mean,
1483
01:17:34.949 --> 01:17:38.590
like five-fold, eight-fold better than we did even three weeks ago,
1484
01:17:38.970 --> 01:17:41.840
because there's a commitment, not just from the sort of
1485
01:17:42.300 --> 01:17:45.750
digital native members, of the Senate, but some others who
1486
01:17:45.789 --> 01:17:50.720
are like newly willing to be authentic and speak plainly.
1487
01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:53.600
And like, uh, you know, because part of it too,
1488
01:17:53.659 --> 01:17:55.460
is like, you got hearings and you got votes and
1489
01:17:55.479 --> 01:17:58.159
you got meetings and you got everything else. You have
1490
01:17:58.180 --> 01:18:00.960
to actually allocate time to like staring into an iPhone
1491
01:18:00.979 --> 01:18:03.680
and saying, here's what I'm up to. It's weird, but
1492
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:05.699
it's a, and I actually had to tell my staff, like,
1493
01:18:06.439 --> 01:18:08.899
we're doing this thing. You have to grab me, even
1494
01:18:08.939 --> 01:18:11.170
if it's just while I'm walking to the floor, stick
1495
01:18:11.210 --> 01:18:13.090
a camera in my face and make me start talking.
1496
01:18:13.609 --> 01:18:17.539
And so we're doing that more and it's starting to work.
1497
01:18:17.979 --> 01:18:22.899
We also need to, over time, build a bigger ecosystem of,
1498
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:26.739
you know, progressive media. And it's not exclusively, well, it's
1499
01:18:26.779 --> 01:18:27.270
you guys.
1500
01:18:27.310 --> 01:18:28.409
I like what you're saying right now.
1501
01:18:28.649 --> 01:18:29.050
Keep going.
1502
01:18:29.149 --> 01:18:30.210
I didn't mean to cut you off.
1503
01:18:30.430 --> 01:18:36.710
Showing up, but it's also kind of the network effect
1504
01:18:37.050 --> 01:18:41.649
of like, you went on Barstool, right? It's the recognition that,
1505
01:18:41.880 --> 01:18:45.479
think of it like you're, high school buddies, you do not,
1506
01:18:45.659 --> 01:18:50.939
I don't, exclude anybody who thinks RFK Jr. is great.
1507
01:18:51.239 --> 01:18:53.039
You might argue with them or you might never talk
1508
01:18:53.079 --> 01:18:55.800
about it, but you just try to find common ground
1509
01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:58.180
and try to build community because I think one of
1510
01:18:58.199 --> 01:19:00.220
the things Trump did in the last election that was
1511
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:04.810
kind of brilliant is you can talk yourself out of
1512
01:19:04.890 --> 01:19:08.899
Tulsi Gabbard's base mattering because you could take a poll
1513
01:19:08.939 --> 01:19:11.819
and go, oh, that's only 1%. And then you could
1514
01:19:11.859 --> 01:19:14.739
do the same thing with RFK and say, that's only 2.5%. Well,
1515
01:19:15.060 --> 01:19:17.220
holy shit, we only lost by 1.5%.
1516
01:19:17.220 --> 01:19:17.939
Exactly.
1517
01:19:18.270 --> 01:19:21.210
And so coalitions that work, and you were part of
1518
01:19:21.250 --> 01:19:25.069
the maybe most powerful coalition on the Democratic side in
1519
01:19:25.109 --> 01:19:29.550
recent memory, are always on policy and on politics kind
1520
01:19:29.569 --> 01:19:34.069
of contradictory. And we became the party that wouldn't accept
1521
01:19:34.180 --> 01:19:38.140
anyone with a weird idea, wouldn't accept anybody with without
1522
01:19:38.180 --> 01:19:41.359
like a kind of down the middle view that was
1523
01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:44.659
totally rational and totally acceptable. And I think we have
1524
01:19:44.699 --> 01:19:47.300
to be a party that says, look, if you've got
1525
01:19:47.319 --> 01:19:50.840
some heterodox views, if you've got even some offensive views,
1526
01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:54.279
we still want you in the tent, right? Like one
1527
01:19:54.310 --> 01:19:56.489
of the reasons in the state of Hawaii, Democrats are
1528
01:19:56.550 --> 01:20:00.250
so powerful is we have conservative Democrats, right? We just
1529
01:20:00.289 --> 01:20:03.449
like welcome them because we figure, hey, better you're a
1530
01:20:03.449 --> 01:20:08.100
conservative Democrat than a moderate Republican. And, um, I tell
1531
01:20:08.109 --> 01:20:10.819
you what, your listeners are going to hate this. I
1532
01:20:10.840 --> 01:20:12.600
miss Joe Manchin, right?
1533
01:20:13.220 --> 01:20:16.220
I miss his vote. Not his personality, but yeah, I
1534
01:20:16.239 --> 01:20:19.260
miss his vote. The House vote seemed nice too.
1535
01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:22.920
I actually like his personality better than his vote. But
1536
01:20:22.960 --> 01:20:26.920
I still like, we would be thrilled to have three
1537
01:20:26.960 --> 01:20:29.659
or four Joe Manchins. So we could all be frustrated
1538
01:20:30.039 --> 01:20:33.319
at the fact that he doesn't vote like a Hawaii Democrat,
1539
01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:36.659
but at least he votes to make Chuck Schumer the
1540
01:20:36.739 --> 01:20:40.260
leader Correct. And and puts Patty Murray in charge of
1541
01:20:40.460 --> 01:20:43.520
appropriations and put Ron Wyden in front of in charge
1542
01:20:43.539 --> 01:20:46.880
of tax and Martin Heinrich in charge of energy and
1543
01:20:46.960 --> 01:20:50.239
all that. And Sheldon Whitehouse in charge of the environment
1544
01:20:50.260 --> 01:20:52.779
and public works like that's what matters in the end.
1545
01:20:52.850 --> 01:20:55.149
And so we have to kind of like we have
1546
01:20:55.170 --> 01:20:58.550
to decide, do we want to win? I remember talking
1547
01:20:58.590 --> 01:21:01.590
to a buddy of mine who who was in the
1548
01:21:01.609 --> 01:21:04.520
Hawaii legislature and. And the magic number in the Hawaii
1549
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:07.069
legislature to become the speaker is 26 out of 51.
1550
01:21:07.069 --> 01:21:12.609
So you need 26 votes. And he was at 22.
1551
01:21:12.609 --> 01:21:17.640
And it was really hard to get to 26. And
1552
01:21:17.699 --> 01:21:21.039
we had a private conversation about a group of people
1553
01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:25.989
who he found to be kind of objectionable. And I said, Well,
1554
01:21:26.010 --> 01:21:27.729
what the fuck, man? Do you want to win? And
1555
01:21:27.789 --> 01:21:31.210
try to get to 26 with no objectionable people. You
1556
01:21:31.270 --> 01:21:34.600
can't do it. So you have to make deals, arrangements,
1557
01:21:34.899 --> 01:21:38.819
promises with people that don't agree with you. And that's
1558
01:21:39.039 --> 01:21:41.399
the way we're going to rebuild this political party is
1559
01:21:41.430 --> 01:21:44.409
we're going to have to aggressively welcome people into our tent.
1560
01:21:44.430 --> 01:21:47.180
It doesn't mean we abandon our core values. It just
1561
01:21:47.220 --> 01:21:50.239
means that one of our core values is to exercise
1562
01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:53.170
power on behalf of people. And we can't do that
1563
01:21:53.289 --> 01:21:57.010
unless we actually win some damned elections. And people do
1564
01:21:57.090 --> 01:22:00.649
not like being scolded out of the tent. And that
1565
01:22:00.689 --> 01:22:02.689
was definitely the vibe for a while. And I think
1566
01:22:02.729 --> 01:22:04.939
we've kind of shook off those cobwebs.
1567
01:22:05.939 --> 01:22:07.079
Look, I love what you're saying.
1568
01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:10.619
I've noticed that a lot of you, you and a
1569
01:22:10.640 --> 01:22:13.260
lot of your colleagues are taking reps from recording things
1570
01:22:13.279 --> 01:22:16.460
that you're just posting on TikTok or on Twitter or wherever,
1571
01:22:16.539 --> 01:22:19.119
just trying to get out there, talk more, explain what's
1572
01:22:19.159 --> 01:22:19.739
going on.
1573
01:22:19.760 --> 01:22:22.199
I think that's great.
1574
01:22:22.350 --> 01:22:22.930
I think you're right.
1575
01:22:22.970 --> 01:22:26.010
We cannot rely on MSNBC hits because those people are
1576
01:22:26.109 --> 01:22:28.390
old and already agree with us. I could not agree
1577
01:22:28.430 --> 01:22:32.409
more with the need to go to different places. I
1578
01:22:33.069 --> 01:22:35.329
once said Democrats should never go on Fox. I'm wrong.
1579
01:22:35.649 --> 01:22:37.770
We should go on Fox. We should pick fights. We
1580
01:22:37.789 --> 01:22:40.449
should be interesting. We should make content that is compelling
1581
01:22:40.470 --> 01:22:43.010
to watch because there is tension in it And people
1582
01:22:43.029 --> 01:22:46.029
should go on like Barstool sports shows or other places
1583
01:22:46.069 --> 01:22:49.590
that I think were seen as not kosher. And it's
1584
01:22:49.630 --> 01:22:53.149
not because you agree with everything Dave Portnoy thinks or said,
1585
01:22:53.270 --> 01:22:55.649
it's because that's not a standard that we apply anywhere else.
1586
01:22:56.029 --> 01:22:56.430
You know what I mean?
1587
01:22:56.449 --> 01:23:00.689
Like I don't judge like ESPN talent based on what
1588
01:23:00.789 --> 01:23:03.810
John Skipper's political views are when back when he was
1589
01:23:04.229 --> 01:23:06.909
in charge of ESPN, he's not anymore. It's someone else
1590
01:23:06.930 --> 01:23:08.909
who I, I forget his name, but anyway, so I
1591
01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:11.020
think that's great. One thing I just would love to,
1592
01:23:11.829 --> 01:23:14.970
get a sense from you on is, okay, you, uh,
1593
01:23:15.430 --> 01:23:18.850
we're re we're worst NFL team. We're in a full rebuild.
1594
01:23:18.930 --> 01:23:21.430
We're tanking to get the draft picks. We're firing the coach.
1595
01:23:21.529 --> 01:23:26.520
New GM quarterback is, uh, uh, doing ayahuasca somewhere. What
1596
01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:28.819
three things do you want people to think of when
1597
01:23:28.859 --> 01:23:30.640
they think of the democratic party? Like what are the
1598
01:23:30.699 --> 01:23:34.300
three core values that is part of our rebrand?
1599
01:23:35.140 --> 01:23:42.159
Um, economic fairness, um, and fighting corruption. and standing up
1600
01:23:42.199 --> 01:23:44.560
for each other. And the standing up for each other,
1601
01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:48.119
I think, let's be honest, I did this on the fly.
1602
01:23:48.149 --> 01:23:53.449
I just think economic fairness is very straightforward. And the
1603
01:23:53.710 --> 01:23:56.930
billionaires on the stage in front of the cabinet was,
1604
01:23:56.970 --> 01:24:00.189
I think, a gift to us because it put three
1605
01:24:00.210 --> 01:24:03.020
dimensions around what we think is happening. And they're about
1606
01:24:03.060 --> 01:24:05.979
to move forward with a massive tax cut. They're obviously
1607
01:24:06.159 --> 01:24:09.020
trying to almost literally raid the Treasury and shut down
1608
01:24:09.159 --> 01:24:13.949
critical services. So that's relatively easy to talk about. And
1609
01:24:13.989 --> 01:24:17.449
I just think, you know, we are no longer the
1610
01:24:17.510 --> 01:24:21.090
party in power. And so we need to fight against
1611
01:24:21.409 --> 01:24:25.449
the power structure and not defend all the elite institutions.
1612
01:24:25.489 --> 01:24:28.920
These people are at the helm and the corruption story
1613
01:24:29.159 --> 01:24:33.539
is both true and alarming, but it's also something that
1614
01:24:34.180 --> 01:24:37.340
attracts swing voters and attracts some of the voters that
1615
01:24:37.460 --> 01:24:41.560
liked Barack Obama, And then swung over to Trump because
1616
01:24:41.579 --> 01:24:44.689
they wanted someone who was going to kick these politicians
1617
01:24:45.810 --> 01:24:48.609
in the stomach, right? And then the third thing, and
1618
01:24:48.649 --> 01:24:51.170
forgive me for not having the precise words, but it
1619
01:24:51.350 --> 01:24:53.810
is just a little bit of belief in each other, right?
1620
01:24:54.329 --> 01:25:00.949
This core value that we're building a mass movement to
1621
01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:05.500
actually envision something different and to forgive each other our
1622
01:25:05.560 --> 01:25:10.680
past political or personal transgressions. to be welcoming and coalition
1623
01:25:10.699 --> 01:25:13.359
building in a way that I think is gonna make
1624
01:25:13.420 --> 01:25:15.850
all of us a little uncomfortable because we're gonna be
1625
01:25:15.890 --> 01:25:20.010
so fucking pissed, right? Now you realize Trump's an idiot.
1626
01:25:20.329 --> 01:25:22.149
I know, and we gotta be nice to those people.
1627
01:25:22.310 --> 01:25:23.470
We gotta be nice.
1628
01:25:23.489 --> 01:25:27.439
We gotta be nice to those people. I've been having
1629
01:25:27.479 --> 01:25:31.140
a bunch of those conversations with folks. And remember that
1630
01:25:31.199 --> 01:25:36.359
people move from in favor of somebody to a little
1631
01:25:36.380 --> 01:25:39.310
bit less in favor of somebody to undecided, and then
1632
01:25:39.350 --> 01:25:43.069
they join you. They never flip, right? Because it's just
1633
01:25:43.109 --> 01:25:45.449
psychologically too hard to go like, holy shit, I was
1634
01:25:45.489 --> 01:25:48.170
wrong about everything. Some people might do that, but for
1635
01:25:48.189 --> 01:25:50.970
the most part, you're moving them over in a way
1636
01:25:51.350 --> 01:25:55.270
that allows them to not feel stupid, not feel put upon,
1637
01:25:55.329 --> 01:25:57.609
not feel like they're being told that they were wrong.
1638
01:25:58.149 --> 01:26:01.850
And like, that is honestly, like there's millions of people
1639
01:26:01.890 --> 01:26:05.100
who listen to podcasts and are politically engaged. One of
1640
01:26:05.119 --> 01:26:07.460
the most important things we can do is win people
1641
01:26:07.579 --> 01:26:10.140
over like one by one. I believe that. I know
1642
01:26:10.180 --> 01:26:13.050
that there's a little bit of like almost technocratic, like
1643
01:26:13.149 --> 01:26:17.390
data driven campaign stuff where it's like, it's all person
1644
01:26:17.409 --> 01:26:20.630
to person conversations. But at this stage, we're not in
1645
01:26:20.649 --> 01:26:23.510
a campaign and we do just need to create a
1646
01:26:23.550 --> 01:26:26.750
little room for people to, to say, by the way,
1647
01:26:26.810 --> 01:26:30.140
people all the time misremember who they voted for. The
1648
01:26:30.180 --> 01:26:33.140
worse Trump gets, the fewer people will remember that they
1649
01:26:33.159 --> 01:26:36.159
voted for him. There's also a category of people. I
1650
01:26:36.199 --> 01:26:40.779
talked to a buddy who was describing his friends who
1651
01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:43.819
are Republicans. And they said, you know, they they voted
1652
01:26:43.859 --> 01:26:46.199
for Trump because they were pissed about Biden and prices
1653
01:26:46.539 --> 01:26:49.189
and his age. But they're not fans of Trump and
1654
01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:52.250
they're going to give him a relatively short leash before
1655
01:26:52.289 --> 01:26:55.329
they abandon him. And so those are those are real
1656
01:26:55.390 --> 01:26:58.930
opportunities for us. if we can just appear to be
1657
01:26:59.189 --> 01:27:02.329
somewhat welcoming and not just turn this into a, I
1658
01:27:02.369 --> 01:27:04.489
can't believe you allowed this guy to take the helm
1659
01:27:04.529 --> 01:27:07.079
and now you want to join us. The answer is
1660
01:27:07.439 --> 01:27:09.939
everybody's welcome. And I don't give a shit what your
1661
01:27:09.979 --> 01:27:13.479
views used to be, how you voted. This is the
1662
01:27:13.539 --> 01:27:17.739
biggest possible tent right now, because in my view, everything
1663
01:27:17.819 --> 01:27:18.399
is at stake.
1664
01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:19.560
I agree.
1665
01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:23.220
Those are great words to end on. Senator Schatz, thank
1666
01:27:23.239 --> 01:27:26.100
you for staying up all night for democracy. And also, Listen,
1667
01:27:26.140 --> 01:27:29.020
those Maryland senators, they got nothing of a commute. You're
1668
01:27:29.039 --> 01:27:30.340
coming from Hawaii to D.C.
1669
01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:30.699
And back.
1670
01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:33.079
So shout out to you for logging some miles.
1671
01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:33.539
And thank you.
1672
01:27:33.939 --> 01:27:34.300
Thank you.
1673
01:27:39.859 --> 01:27:41.600
That's our show for today. Thanks to Senator Schatz for
1674
01:27:41.640 --> 01:27:43.779
coming by. And thanks to all the Democratic senators who
1675
01:27:43.800 --> 01:27:46.159
stopped by our live stream on Wednesday as they spent
1676
01:27:46.180 --> 01:27:48.100
the night holding the Senate floor to oppose Russ' vote.
1677
01:27:48.479 --> 01:27:50.300
Dan's going to be back in the feed on Sunday
1678
01:27:50.470 --> 01:27:53.949
with an interview with Ben Smith, the co-founder and editor-in-chief
1679
01:27:54.029 --> 01:27:56.569
of Semaphore. and former media columnist at the New York
1680
01:27:56.609 --> 01:27:59.699
Times about the wonderful media environment we're all living in.
1681
01:28:00.409 --> 01:28:01.689
That should be fun for Sunday, and then we'll be
1682
01:28:01.729 --> 01:28:03.970
back with a new episode in your feeds on Tuesday.
1683
01:28:04.069 --> 01:28:06.720
Have a great weekend, everyone. Bye, everyone. If you want
1684
01:28:06.729 --> 01:28:09.220
to listen to Pod Save America ad-free or get access
1685
01:28:09.260 --> 01:28:13.000
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1686
01:28:13.060 --> 01:28:16.180
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01:28:16.239 --> 01:28:20.079
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01:28:20.220 --> 01:28:23.279
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01:28:23.380 --> 01:28:26.880
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01:28:26.899 --> 01:28:28.720
before you hit that next button, you can help boost
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01:28:28.760 --> 01:28:31.359
this episode by leaving us a review and by sharing
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01:28:31.399 --> 01:28:34.329
it with friends and family. Pod Save America is a
1693
01:28:34.390 --> 01:28:37.930
Crooked Media production. Our producers are David Toledo and Saul Rubin.
1694
01:28:38.369 --> 01:28:41.529
Our associate producer is Farah Safar. Reid Cherlin is our
1695
01:28:41.569 --> 01:28:44.789
executive editor and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The
1696
01:28:44.829 --> 01:28:48.300
show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor
1697
01:28:48.340 --> 01:28:50.850
is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin
1698
01:28:50.899 --> 01:28:53.619
and Charlotte Landis. Madeline Herringer is our head of news
1699
01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:56.859
and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi
1700
01:28:56.880 --> 01:28:59.600
Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team,
1701
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Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hefcoat,
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Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kirill Pelleviv, and David Tolles. Our
1703
01:29:08.130 --> 01:29:10.720
production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of
1704
01:29:10.760 --> 01:29:11.560
America East.