00:00:00
Speaker 1: Fifteen. All right, there we go. It's fine. That's Zacher three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: My name is Maleger. Thank you for listening. I've you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. Paul Danner Junior is here. He covers the Bengals for The Athletic.
00:00:16
Speaker 1: Didn't cover Joe Burrow today.
00:00:18
Speaker 2: The Athletic dot com, as well as the Growler podcast, where he and Jay Morrison broke down everything that was said yesterday in the media availability, which was that a gaggle. I think it was less than gaggle, less than gaggle, Yeah, because what I mean four people's not I gaggle.
00:00:34
Speaker 3: I think of his more than four. It was a nice, quiet little room. Didn't feel gaggling to me. Okay, yeah, it just felt more like a little conversation, little chat, just a chat, all right.
00:00:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys broke it down in a great detail on the Growler podcast, and Paul joins us every Tuesday, and unfortunately no Joe Burrow to talk about today, or we could talk about him, but no Joe Burrow to hear from you.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: No.
00:00:57
Speaker 3: I heard you mentioned this with Tony and Austin, and I said it myself. I said, I would just lap up a Joe Flacco press that's right now if.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: He came in. I mean, I got to tell you, like I have.
00:01:10
Speaker 3: I would love to just talk to Joe Flacco right now if that's what we had to do. Sure, sure, I mean now we could have. He was just in the locker room like it was no, it was available. But if he just would have walked in, I think we all would have sat there and been like, yeah, okay, love Joe Flacco. Press conferences the best, Yes, yeah, I'll do it.
00:01:28
Speaker 1: Well. But that didn't happen, No, it didn't. That's okay.
00:01:31
Speaker 3: Whatever Joe was spending extra time throwing after practice, I don't know if he was still grinding his gears a little bit over an interception by Josh Newton early in early in the practice, and so maybe he was out there working on his five yard out to make sure that that didn't happen anymore, or just it just put him in a bad enough mood that he said, I just don't want to do this. Not quite sure where that lands, but uh punted to tomorrow.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: All right, Well, tomorrow Joe will talk today we can psychoanalyze his unwillingness to do the press conference today.
00:02:03
Speaker 3: What would have been worse though one day of this or he actually goes up today and he's in a bad mood from whatever. Right, Yeah, and then we spend the next five weeks debating his happiness again that I don't need, I.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Don't know, I don't need that, nobody wants.
00:02:19
Speaker 2: I mean, as much as I can lament the dearth of hard hitting Bengals topics this summer relative to recent seasons, I have no interest in that.
00:02:26
Speaker 1: I have no interest in that either. So this is probably for the best.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: You had the mandatory mini camp this week, and we'll talk about the chat you had with Elizabeth and Katy yesterday. But has there been anything that has stood out in the locker room or on the field this week from your perspective?
00:02:42
Speaker 1: Not really. I mean we were there today. It was like an hour and fifteen minutes.
00:02:46
Speaker 3: It was pretty light if you want to if you want to get a glimpse of the type of stuff that was going on today, big big news when we had I believe it was called the Doomsday unit was in there practicing field goals. It was Tanner Hudson holding, Ryan Rico kicking and Cam Grandy snapping. This is you got just in case, in case you get to a situation where any of those pieces are hurt. They have to know that they can execute. So they were they were going through kicking four or five field goals. That's where we're at with the field goals. Good three for four for Ryan kick. You said that it was the first time he probably kicked a field goal since his freshman year in college. But he's proven that he can do it now where he can be the guy to get you through a game and then they go get somebody, which is what he's looking But that's where any camp is currently living right now.
00:03:41
Speaker 2: Has he been practicing any punting, like inside the ten that sort of thing. Yeah, he's working onstead of just you know hitting you know Aaron Judge Holmers through the back of the end zone when they they're looking for a you know, a webshot.
00:03:57
Speaker 3: I didn't get into that well today, I was really really focused on the kicking.
00:04:03
Speaker 1: I get it.
00:04:03
Speaker 3: We'll get to that and train plenty of time to unpack that box.
00:04:06
Speaker 1: Okay, very good.
00:04:08
Speaker 3: No, I mean outside of that, I mean they're realistically there really hasn't been a you know, a ton all parties that you want to see were there and accounted for. So that was that was for the most part. Dax was on the side for the seven on seven level of an type stuff, but he said, he said, that's no big deal. He's fine, nothing really going on there. But outside of that, I mean, it's been just kind of it was kind of more of the same.
00:04:36
Speaker 1: Okay, very good.
00:04:37
Speaker 2: Yesterday you had the conversation with Katie Blackburn and Elizabeth Blackburn and I I said this after the Duke Tobin thing, and this is no disrespect to anybody who is in nonsports media who gets sent to cover those things. But I like it when it's just the folks who cover the team closely, you know, answering questions, because I think you guys are most in touch with most what most of us want to hear. So in that setting, what stood up most about what Elizabeth and Katie had to.
00:05:07
Speaker 3: Say, you know, it's that what we've been kind of talking about, is there The conversation sort of reflected the themes of the off season, which is, man, there's not a.
00:05:19
Speaker 4: Whole lot to really get after here, is there in terms of content where it could be content where we're broaching uncomfortable topics, which we always seem to be doing in these conversations with Katie, and there just really wasn't a whole lot uncomfortable yesterday.
00:05:33
Speaker 3: It was like, why are things going so good here? About how great that went? How about you know, it was really a lot of like things seem to be going really well. And that's the tone of it, and that's why maybe the takeaway is a little bit of how much it has continued.
00:05:50
Speaker 1: To do what it always does every time we have news.
00:05:53
Speaker 3: Is cycle more pressure onto this season because it just feels in such a good place right now, where all this pressure is now being put on this season and then consequently really being put on Zach Taylor. And you know, they sort of discussed that and you could feel that, I mean, it wasn't overwhelming. They weren't going out of their way to be like playoffs or bust or anything like that. It was very you know, easy, He's treated very easily. But I think there was a sense of everybody here expects a really good season, and so if that doesn't happen, there's gonna be a lot of other questions to be answered.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: I think was the unsaid part of that.
00:06:31
Speaker 2: It was, you know, I am a fan of the world champion New York Knicks.
00:06:36
Speaker 1: I heard that.
00:06:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, where the owner of the team, who is mostly somebody that I've despised for the better part of the last twenty five years. But he said publicly back in January, we need we should make the finals and we should win the finals. That's pretty much what he said, set it on the radio today, which put a lot of pressure on the world champion New York Knicks to eventually get to the finals and vanquish whoever they would play from the Western Conference. There was a part of me that was hoping for a Cincinnati Bengals version of that. I knew I wasn't going to get it, but I got some implications there that they believe like, Okay, maybe they're not going to the super Bowl, but we've we've kind of done our thing here and so now like it's it's kind of on Zach, it's on Joe, who have both admitted this to go do your thing.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker 3: I think they said that in their way, Yeah, I mean it was yeah, I think in their way, there was a like, yeah, this should be a great season. We were expecting that. I mean, that's that's we've done a good job. There's no glaring holes apparently, you know that there's there's no feeling of anything's missing from this team. And I think there's you know, obviously plenty of arguments you made that that's the case. But yeah, I think in their way, they said that this is the expectation, this it should look like that, but there's never gonna be you know there. It was always followed with, well, the season's got to play out and you never know what's going to happen, and that is fair. But I think that's you know that that was sort of the message in their way.
00:08:04
Speaker 2: This was And correct me if I'm wrong, because typically Katie will talk at the owners meetings. You went to the owners meetings, Katie didn't talk. This was basically in lieu of that.
00:08:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's why it was only myself, Ben Baby from ESPN and Kelsey Comace Inquirer and Jeff Hobson because we were the ones originally slated to talk and they kind of changed that after we all had planned to go out there. Yeah, and so there was okay, well we'll have a make good for you on that. We just want to change away the schedule went. And I'll say, like, looking back on it now, I give credit to them for the change. I liked the changes that were made in terms of what I felt like the messages were able to be delivered to fans by different people at important points in time, from putting Duke Tobin out there right after the season, which is where that needed to be, to making the assistant general managers available during the draft, which we great to hear those voices, and then having Katie and Elizabeth here now after the promotion she got this promotion to vice president along with Caroline, and to have those voices here together at this point. And then obviously the plan right now as far as we know is that we'll still have Mike at Mock Turtle Soup and everybody that's involved in that. I like that layout. Yeah, and I would let you you know, I'm always looking for more. I would still love to talk to people at the league meetings if there's but there's just a lot less news that comes out of the league meetings, which is true, Like that used to be a real Newsy Week. Now it's kind of the league is kind of shifted away from that. It's just you talk out there because everyone is and hopefully that will still have something out there. But I do think that this layout and the movement, I think it gives people the answers that they want. They hear from different people and at better mile posts, probably in the off season.
00:09:56
Speaker 2: So that's kind of where I was going, because it has felt like this offsea there has been and maybe transparency isn't the right word, but there's there's been a little bit more information coming from the Bengals and starting with the Duke Tobin mega press CONTI. I mean that's the biggest one, and that needs to happen on a on a regular basis. So is there a sense of, all right, we've got to be a little bit more forthright with information in our own way, and we have to take a little heat off Zach Taylor, who's still going to be the public voice of the organization or whoever the head coach is, just because of the volume of press conferences and availabilities that, yeah, he's going to do his thing, but like we we kind of have to.
00:10:36
Speaker 3: Be out there as well as that. Is this going to be the new norm? I guess I feel like this is going to be the new norm. I mean I think it. I haven't come across a single person inside or outside the organization that is thought the way things went was bad outside of obviously what that Duke Tobin press conference turned into. Yeah, but I don't think that's going to be the case going forward. Right, We've talked about that before, Like, I just think the nature of this season and that that had never happened for turned that into a thing that it probably that was way out of control. I don't think that'll be the case when that's just a regular part of the season structure. And so for that fact, I think that's But outside of that, like I think everything has been met with like, hey, this was all really good, and I think this is the way that things will probably operate out. I think it's also like at certain point you've got to reevaluate the way you're you're talking to your fans, but also when to talk to them and the league. The league does kind of change that, like just it's constantly stretching itself out where it's not at small like small points anymore, and you can kind of find your own your own lane and so I I think this is good. I think everybody felt like it was good, and I certainly liked hearing from the different voices at different times.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: Now one may say, well, this summer, there's no distraction, there's no Trey Hendricks, and there's no they're obviously players and both talked about like we've we've got some guys we want to resign, but there's no controversial holdout, hold in guy throwing shots like Shamar Stewart last year. When we get back to that and those things are you know, over the course of the next few years, is going to be unavoidable. They happen around the NFL. It's nice to not have them this year, But do you feel like what you had yesterday sort of goes away?
00:12:28
Speaker 3: If there's no no, no, I don't think that there's any move by anybody to have those people not out there talking about whatever's going on. At this point in time. There's not a ton, but I think I don't. I think it's more about finding the time that best fits, you know, in the new NFL calendar right now, and I don't think that there's I mean, certainly you would hear a lot from us if there was, you know, any idea of not having.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: Something like this available still, And I don't think that's the case.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: All are there is what you guys did yesterday, Is that the norm around the NFL?
00:13:07
Speaker 3: No, No, not not not really, I mean, I mean hear from all the time.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like there are there are teams where I couldn't name their owner because they're never out there.
00:13:18
Speaker 3: So like a lot of markets, just by the nature of what they are, it's there's a lot more people. And now there would have been more people in a normal year, but like, yeah, you know, but at the league meetings, that's probably not a crazy site like that in a courtyard there's like four or five media members with a GM or with an owner because those are the people that traveled out there. Like what happened in Cincinnati is not all that far off from what happens at the Biltmore or the Breakers or any of those things when they go down. So but no, I think the you know, the the access was was certainly like that's the best case scenario for anybody on any beat is to be able to just be able to sit down in a room in a very conversational environment with a small group of people where there doesn't feel like there's any jumping in or it's not a super intense it feels much more like a regular conversation with someone at that level in this league.
00:14:13
Speaker 1: That's hard to get. I'm very appreciative that we were able to get it.
00:14:17
Speaker 3: I wish it would have been like a year where we had more stuff to get.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: Right now.
00:14:23
Speaker 3: It was, you know, I'll say this, and I talked our good friend Richard Skinner. I talked about this with him yesterday, and he was pointing out that was an opportunity for them to take a little victory lap, and there was none. There was no like, hey, I mean the first my first question was basically like about how aggressive the off season had been, and like, you know, look, you guys, tod new precedent, this, this and this, it seems like it's gone. And it was basically like, would you like take a victory lap? And the answer was kind of no, Like it was more of a saluting the people around them, and they're just doing you know, it was very matter of fact and logical, and I guess I wouldn't have necessarily expected that from them, but it was there with the off season that they've had the decision to keep Duke and go forward with continuity and to see that play out advantageously to them and that personnel staff. To be sitting where they're at right now. There was a chance for a little bit of an off season victory lap, and they didn't.
00:15:22
Speaker 1: They didn't take it.
00:15:23
Speaker 3: Didn't like the ring of honor answer, nor did I. I mean, but here's the thing. But here's the thing I said, I'm not received a good answer on that question yet, and I don't know that that I I don't agree with that answer. I appreciated the answer. I just answer. I didn't like it because my point is, if it's about giving these guys the right moment, well let's make sure they get a moment. Let's make alive for the moment, right Like, if it's about giving them them a moment, let's not make it harder for them to actually get the moment. That was That'd be my side of what they said. But I see what they're saying with some of the the promotion of being on the ballot as part of it too. But I you know, I did I just disagree.
00:16:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, wholeheartily.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: But I appreciated the the relative candor with which the answer was provided.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: And I do believe that.
00:16:15
Speaker 3: They've put a lot of thought into it, which is what Elizabeth said. And I don't think that that's a stretch. I just, you know, I just I don't want to be talking about Ken Riley's and Bob Trumpy's and things like this anymore.
00:16:28
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that.
00:16:29
Speaker 2: I have a few of the things I want to ask you about, but that have nothing to do with Katie and Elizabeth. And I have maybe two assignments for you, okay, because I know there's not a lot going on. I need I need work.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: I got two assignments for you. We'll get to that when we come back.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: Twenty two minutes after three o'clock, Paul Danner Junior, covering the Bengals for the Athletic dot Com has two pieces on some of the things that were talked about yesterday, and the Growler podcast up as well.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: He's here till four. We are here toll six.
00:16:57
Speaker 2: We have the Reds and their win last night, with Chase Burns absolutely bodying Juan Soto. We have the Brendan sores By issued to discuss, and a lot of other ins and outs as well. On ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
00:17:08
Speaker 5: Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.
00:17:13
Speaker 2: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegger with Paul Danner Junior covering.
00:17:17
Speaker 1: The Bengals for the Athletic and the Growl of podcast. I don't know. Between now and training camp.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're taking some time off, but if you're in need of something to do, I was thinking this week, this would be pretty easy assignment for you. It's a supplemental mock draft. Sure, why not get a big board out for the supplemental draft?
00:17:37
Speaker 3: Can I do my supplemental mock draft? Yeah, it's just the big X on a piece of paper. Not happening. No, not here anyway.
00:17:44
Speaker 2: Bengals aren't taking Brendan Soresby in the supplemental draft.
00:17:47
Speaker 1: I don't see that no being a part of the equation. I guess.
00:17:51
Speaker 3: I mean, I I never want to say never anymore, all right with this team?
00:17:56
Speaker 2: So this team the most uncircused like off season of all trend setting trailblazers in Cincinnati.
00:18:03
Speaker 3: How could I possibly say that it's definitely off the Okay, I do not see that as a gift to people like me are you kidding me?
00:18:11
Speaker 2: Look here it is. We're taking Brendan Sourcebe in the supplemental draft. Go ahead, mo, all.
00:18:18
Speaker 1: Yours, all yours? Yeah, No, I do not do not see that uch?
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Can I ask you from a serious perspective as somebody who knows the league well and knows how NFL personnel people think. And obviously every team is different, every team's quarterback situation is different. But do you think Brendan Sorosby will have difficulty finding teams that are really interested in him?
00:18:38
Speaker 3: Somebody's gonna take a chance. I mean there, you know, we saw a little bit as the league, the college game has shifted. How empty the last couple rounds felt right as everyone just took a million tight ends because they were the one position they feel like there were a bunch of good ones in. It is the value of those late round picks. While there still is some that's it gets less and less. There's more and more guys stay in school and there's less early entrants and.
00:19:04
Speaker 1: Things like that.
00:19:06
Speaker 3: For that fact, somebody's got a six round pick or a fifth round pick, or they have comp pay, they've got a bunch, they've stockpiles, Like, what's the matter we got three fives next year, Let's let's start throw at a quarterback who can sit in the background. Maybe we can coach them up and see what we can get out of them and whatever. Right, I mean, at that position in the NFL, if you feel like he has the tools and you can get it out of him, somebody's somebody is going to be willing to use a late round pick to just see what they can do. So for me, I think that's probably where this thing, this thing lands. There's enough, there's just too much value, too much need to try to hit on something like that that some team wouldn't take a chance.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: But there have to be teams that view the gambling thing as a total non starter. Yeah, and I think a lot of them would.
00:19:57
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the idea of maybe he'll be a good quarter back with trumpet, I mean, his storyline is going to be minimal. Wherever he goes. I think you can put him in programs and deal with whatever this year. You're you're not gonna be counting on him to do anything this year. So if you're helping him get right, you're helping him get help. He's in your system. You got him in the whatever the NFL puts in place, the NFLPA puts in place to help that stuff.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: You can feel like you can come in to the twenty twenty seven season and see what you have for real.
00:20:30
Speaker 2: Well if when you're done with the mock supplemental.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: Tram, I'm done with that, so go ahead.
00:20:35
Speaker 2: I asked on social media last night what people enjoyed more the Brendan Soresby era at Texas Tech the Ryan Madson era with the Reds, which, for folks who don't remember, in the spring of twenty twelve, Reds had made a series of like all in moves that year, Matt Lato's, Sean Marshall, Ryan Ludwig. They also got Ryan Madson, who played one game of catch, blew out his elbow and never pitched in a regular season game or a spring training game for that matter for the Reds. And then there was my favorite of all time, Antoniobrian. And this was before I believe your full you were full time on the beat.
00:21:11
Speaker 1: No, but I was around. I was around, Yeah, I was there.
00:21:13
Speaker 2: So antonio'brien science with the Bengals, and it's the same offseason they get too, but right before they get too they started training camp in Georgetown and antonio'brien had like a knee issue or a hamstring or something, and as I recall, Marvin Lewis made him practice. That practice cost the Bengals like nine million.
00:21:32
Speaker 1: Dollars did cause, no, it was the nine million dollar practices. It is now known.
00:21:37
Speaker 2: You could do the oral history for the athletics of the nine million dollar practice.
00:21:43
Speaker 3: I'd do a thousand words on every limping step I saw this, dude make. I have never seen, you know how like it was the equivalent of like, you know, the tire drill or like the little where you're just doing steps over the pads. I've never once doubted if an NFL player can run over the pads in that drill until I saw that practice where I was like, Oh, I don't know that he's.
00:22:07
Speaker 1: Going to be able to do this. Why is he out there?
00:22:10
Speaker 3: And then you come to find out all the drama behind it of him being able to be out there and doing that was worth nine million dollars to him and a lot more of that makes sense. I believe a lot some people lost their jobs over that one, But I mean, his knee was people knew that his knee was shot coming into it, and everybody was waiting. Everybody was waiting to see Antonio. He's going to practice today and everyone, Oh no, I was.
00:22:37
Speaker 2: There, Lindsey Patterson and I drove down to Georgetown because like Teo was going to show up, right, And I remember looking at her going our other new wide receiver runs like he's got a keg of beer strapped to his shoulders, Like this isn't I don't think this is good. And then you came to find out like they made him practice and so like Antonio Bryant should send Christmas cards or something every year to a lot of folks, Yes, but primarily Marvin Lewis.
00:23:05
Speaker 3: He certainly benefited. I mean it was one of the wildest things where you just instantly knew, well, this guy's broken, this is not there spent a lot of money on this guy, and he is broken. And the crowds. Do you remember the crowds that you do? Yes, I will never forget the crowds at Georgetown during the.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: Toho Circus year. I remember that.
00:23:24
Speaker 3: I mean it was insane And the best part was the next year. So the next year, after that disastrous ten season, the disastrous following off season. Now in actuality they drafted Dalton and Agent Green or whatever, but that they were as low as they could be from a pr perspective with their fans entering eleven because they had just gotten roasted. And I remember being there at that same place talking to Cedric Benson in one of those little walking paths between the two fields where the previous year was over floats with just people everywhere, and Cedric just kind of stops me in the middle of it and he goes, man, do we have fans anymore?
00:24:10
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't think you do.
00:24:12
Speaker 3: I mean, it was unbelievable how few people were down. Then they ended up being, you know, a decent season and they kind of started the track back, but it was those two years are very.
00:24:23
Speaker 1: Vivid memories of a lot going on with the Cincinnati Bangles. Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that included a nine million dollar time million dollars. There's a little project for you. You know what I might do it if I I'll credit you in my my little story. If I if I can track down Antonio O'Brien, I'm sure he's around somewhere.
00:24:45
Speaker 1: I wouldn't much money.
00:24:47
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about the one time he practiced and got paid nine million dollars for you.
00:24:50
Speaker 1: At this point, I would have had a book written.
00:24:52
Speaker 3: If I was him about that where sixteen years removed, I think we can open up on it.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: Twenty four away from four o'clock Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Podcast Here till four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:25:06
Speaker 1: Not just talk.
00:25:07
Speaker 5: This is sports with soul, sweat and swagger. Tony Pike, Sincy three sixty Tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic on uce.
00:25:23
Speaker 2: Health TRAFFICCA see our service of a Kelsey Chevrolet Home of lifetime power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life kelseyshev dot Com. Red's play the Mets again tonight at gabp A for last night's three homer blowout wins spearheaded by Chase Burns doing Chase Burns thing. Euhaneo Suarez hit a couple of bombs and the Reds took the series opener, and you know, now they've won two out of three. Tonight they hand the ball to Brady Singer seven to ten, first pitch, seven hundred. Wl W Moore on that a little bit later on Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler pod cast is whether US Bengals training camp begins end of July. And I know we've talked about the relative quiet nature of the off season and the things that we're not talking about now that we were talking about a year or so ago. Let's talk about the extensions that could be done. Do you think that between now in July twenty eighth, it's at the first practice.
00:26:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that weekend. Do we believe that one of them will get done between now and then?
00:26:31
Speaker 3: Potentially these things go a couple different ways, because it feels like some years you get one that yeah right before camp starts, bam, just both sides saw eye to eye, they knocked it out. There's been a bunch of those over the years. Logan Wilson, Tyler Boyd like I can go through the line. I'm just thinking about them. This one feels a little harder. I'm talking about DJ just because it's more expensive and those tend to get a little bit more into the training, into training camp and further so, I'm not gonna say if I'm if I'm guessing, I would say maybe it bleeds over into camp a little bit. But there's a potential that it gets done. So I mean we've you've seen around the league. I mean, there's tons of big deals getting done right now. So I don't think it's out of the question. But as Katie said yesterday, you know, the quote was, we've got our work cut out for us when you consider the other commitments that.
00:27:29
Speaker 1: They also have.
00:27:30
Speaker 3: I mean they have five players with twenty plus million dollars against the cap next year. It's a lot. Now, they can do a lot of things. They can restructure a quarterback contract. Really yeah, they can't.
00:27:44
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:27:45
Speaker 3: But that said, I think the tone used on that suggests if you were thinking that all four of those extension candidates were happening, you're crazy.
00:27:54
Speaker 1: Sure.
00:27:54
Speaker 3: I would say it maybe pushes the number down to one and a half being the over under, okay, instead of maybe two and a half.
00:28:01
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:28:02
Speaker 3: I just think that I think one gets done with somebody. I think one of those four ends up getting a franchise tag next year, and then I think they try to find ways.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Maybe that most likely Brown Chase Brown.
00:28:16
Speaker 3: It feels most likely the running back number is easiest to handle, and so that feels like it would make the most sense. They don't have an answer. I mean, they'd be dependent on the draft. They don't really have an answer for his position right now in the long run, so it feels like a franchise tag, kick the can down the road, we'll try to get a deal done type thing. You can be surprised by that stuff, but that's certainly what it feels like right now.
00:28:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker 2: But in if there was one, and I know I made you do this like two weeks ago with your your run pass or boot that you do. But if one got done, the most likely one does feel like DJ.
00:28:59
Speaker 3: It does to me, Yeah, just because you know you're gonna start with what feels like the most expensive the best player. Yeah, and that's both both of those things would be DJ.
00:29:10
Speaker 1: Now.
00:29:11
Speaker 3: I love the idea of you know, this would be an interesting I would love to sit down and hear Miles Murphy and his representation's.
00:29:18
Speaker 1: Reaction if they drop three years forty five on them. Would you do it if I was them?
00:29:23
Speaker 3: You were Miles boy, I take it because think about it. If he has we talked about this. If he has a good year this year, he's boy mafe. Yeah, he's the same same resume if he has a good year this year or one that just looks like a second half of last year, which is twenty plus million dollars per and set right, would you take three years forty five right now or bet on yourself to for it could be twenty twenty five. Maybe he's a dafeoa and it's even better and twenty twenty five mil per year after this year if you have a big year or maybe not, like you're just your rolling the dice, Yes, what would you do?
00:30:01
Speaker 1: I take the security? Yeah, that's just me.
00:30:04
Speaker 2: Now that's from from the perspective of somebody who can't wrap my brain around making that kind of money. But there's there's a degree of security that the three for forty five offers me that I'm not turning down. Yeah, but I yeah, how well can you sleep at night thinking about what could have been? Especially if you do end up having this you have that year and.
00:30:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go out an opening day against Tampa and get two sacks, you are immediately a bargain. Yes, yes, you're like already you're like, no, you know, but I mean that's that's the game. Like, that's the kind of an offer the Bengals are in a position right to make to Miles, Right, make him make a decision if he wants the security or if he wants to try to bet on himself, and.
00:30:46
Speaker 1: Maybe they get a deal done then.
00:30:48
Speaker 3: But I just it's it's an he's the most He's an interesting one in that respect because you can go in on early on him and and and maybe save some money on the fact that you are offering him this because there's a good chance that he's going to be a lot more expensive next year.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: You signed the deal, you play the season, and then you complain about it.
00:31:07
Speaker 3: Look, he has a mentor that has blazed this path. You can just ask out of it the moment you sign it.
00:31:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:31:16
Speaker 2: Do you believe because the Bengals when they turned down the opportunity to pick up the fifth year option, that was stated publicly he's a guy we do want to work something out with long term. Yeah, so you believe there'll be some proactivity from the Bengals to offer him that kind of deal that he would have to make a tough decision about.
00:31:33
Speaker 3: I think there'd be interesting. I think there's gonna you know, I think there would be an offer that looks like that.
00:31:39
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, maybe it's lower, I don't know.
00:31:42
Speaker 3: I don't know specifics on what they would offer, but I think in more of like the philosophy of what we're talking about here. The exact numbers, I don't know where that would land, but like the philosophy of something that, hey, we can offer you some security, but if you have a big season, it'll be a bargain for us, right, And that's an interesting decision for a lot of players.
00:32:00
Speaker 2: I mean, three for forty five would put him where among edge rushers on an annual average annual basis, I mean not even.
00:32:08
Speaker 3: I mean it's below what the what the you know, the top tiers of the free agent ye that we're getting this year. It's it's in the middle. It's a solid for a young guy in his prime. It's a it's an okay deal, sure, I mean it's fifty million dot yes, But and it's also right at what his option would have been. So maybe their offer would be less than that or spread out differently, but doesn't matter. I just think the idea of are you a bet on yourself guy, or you are a security guy.
00:32:33
Speaker 1: I think it kind of comes down to that one. Anything. I'm a security guy.
00:32:37
Speaker 3: When you start talking about fifteen million dollars, I'm feeling real secure.
00:32:40
Speaker 2: I'm a security guy knowing that, you know what, maybe I can maybe I could become Trey Hendrickson two point zero for the latter part of the decade.
00:32:49
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember, I always vividly remember I mentioned Tyler Boyd because I vividly remember the conversation I had with him after he signed his deal where we all anticipated it being I think at that time around like twelve or thirteen mil per year and he signed for like ten. Yeah, and I remember saying, like he could have got He's like, man making ten million dollars, and I'm just happy about that. Yeah, I'm not out here. I didn't want to haggle over a couple of this or that I'm making lots of money. I'm happy here.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: I like it.
00:33:18
Speaker 3: Like he was very much about the quality of life and things like that. And you know, there's so much beaut that a lot of guys come and that's their approach, the one that we're talking about, and so you never know, and I think that's why the Bengals being offers that look like that Tigers said that the franchise tag year, yeah, right where he signed the tag and showed up and was here for everything and was like, dude, I'm making twenty one twenty one point eight million dollars, Like I don't know, dude, I'm pretty good.
00:33:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if I go and do what I do most seasons, I'll I'll get mine here or somewhere else. I was refreshing to hear. Yeah, the classic quote.
00:33:54
Speaker 3: In Bengals media lord from Michael Johnson when he got the franchise tag for whatever that was, and he goes, I'm from Selma, Alabama eleven point eight million dollars, Like it's just like, are you kidding me? Like this is so you know, and you know Aj Green talking about the franchise tag and his wife would kill him if he didn't go playing for that money, and.
00:34:16
Speaker 1: Right, that's yeah, that's what it is.
00:34:19
Speaker 3: But I think there's a lot of because of the situation there and then having their quote work cut out for them, I think there's gonna be a lot of you know, I don't know, haggling might not be the best word. But there's gonna be a lot of negotiation here in terms of how can they find a way to make all this work or what they want to work right now?
00:34:37
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I would do if I were any one of these guys is I would take a page from NBA Finals MVP Jalen Brunson left a lot of money on the table and he will recoup that tenfold and uh will be a legend for life because of what he did to help the NBA World Champion New York knickt win. And if these guys could accomplish something similar, and it's the result of maybe some guys making some financial sacrifices, they will be rewarded down the road as NBA Finals MVP, NBA Eastern Conference Finals MVP NBA Cup MVP Jalen Brunson is being rewarded in New York.
00:35:15
Speaker 3: Look, I'm just happy that you allowed me to still come in here and be in the presence of world your world champion.
00:35:19
Speaker 2: I try to get James Edwards to do an hour, and you gotta cover a parade, got a parade to cover, so there's things to do.
00:35:27
Speaker 3: But uh, you know, congratulations to you. Thanks what a What a run. It was awesome, What a run. It was hard between that and Carolina the next night, and then it was hard not to look at Katie and Elizabeth and think like, here it is, Yes, here it is. It's happening, Like it's the same. Like I wonder, you know, it's like, what do you guys think when you see things like that? It's like, man, what you can do for a city? I thought it was a beautiful what Monica McNutt said afterwards, like the the love letter that you can pen to your city and to your fans by bringing a championship is going to be the stuff that can be remembered forever.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: Right now, here's the chance.
00:36:08
Speaker 2: Of somebody who loves the Knicks and Bengals, but who lives here. I have watched the Knicks through the lens of imagine if we had something like that here. Yeah, And I think it can happen. So I'm hopeful.
00:36:23
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what it feels like now you honestly, there's never been a better opportunity for you to enter the Bengals Organization director of Common Sense and director of How to Bring a Championships.
00:36:34
Speaker 1: That's right, you can follow follow your Knicks model.
00:36:38
Speaker 2: So I'll tell this very quickly and then I know you gotta go. But we we had a luncheon today for some folks that we hope partner with us in the fall, and we had a couple of Bengals legends with us, and I had to moderate the Q and A. And this gentleman raised his hand to ask a question and he went right after my heart where he started to compare Joe Burrow to NBA Finals MVP Jalen Brunson. And somebody asked me, did you plant that guy? I'm like, no, but yeah, I yes, that's that's the comp I'm looking for.
00:37:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe Joe Burrow's restructure is kind of it's not. It's kind but it's not quite even you know, one hundred million.
00:37:27
Speaker 2: It's in the same canon of heroes. Yes, sure, we'll put it that way, all right. Thank you as always. Read the Athletic dot Com Paul Danner Junior's covers of the Bengals and the Growler Podcast latest episode with Jay Morrison reacting to everything that was said yesterday. It's five away from four o'clock on Moweger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports
00:37:48
Speaker 5: Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty t
Speaker 1: Fifteen. All right, there we go. It's fine. That's Zacher three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: My name is Maleger. Thank you for listening. I've you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. Paul Danner Junior is here. He covers the Bengals for The Athletic.
00:00:16
Speaker 1: Didn't cover Joe Burrow today.
00:00:18
Speaker 2: The Athletic dot com, as well as the Growler podcast, where he and Jay Morrison broke down everything that was said yesterday in the media availability, which was that a gaggle. I think it was less than gaggle, less than gaggle, Yeah, because what I mean four people's not I gaggle.
00:00:34
Speaker 3: I think of his more than four. It was a nice, quiet little room. Didn't feel gaggling to me. Okay, yeah, it just felt more like a little conversation, little chat, just a chat, all right.
00:00:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys broke it down in a great detail on the Growler podcast, and Paul joins us every Tuesday, and unfortunately no Joe Burrow to talk about today, or we could talk about him, but no Joe Burrow to hear from you.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: No.
00:00:57
Speaker 3: I heard you mentioned this with Tony and Austin, and I said it myself. I said, I would just lap up a Joe Flacco press that's right now if.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: He came in. I mean, I got to tell you, like I have.
00:01:10
Speaker 3: I would love to just talk to Joe Flacco right now if that's what we had to do. Sure, sure, I mean now we could have. He was just in the locker room like it was no, it was available. But if he just would have walked in, I think we all would have sat there and been like, yeah, okay, love Joe Flacco. Press conferences the best, Yes, yeah, I'll do it.
00:01:28
Speaker 1: Well. But that didn't happen, No, it didn't. That's okay.
00:01:31
Speaker 3: Whatever Joe was spending extra time throwing after practice, I don't know if he was still grinding his gears a little bit over an interception by Josh Newton early in early in the practice, and so maybe he was out there working on his five yard out to make sure that that didn't happen anymore, or just it just put him in a bad enough mood that he said, I just don't want to do this. Not quite sure where that lands, but uh punted to tomorrow.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: All right, Well, tomorrow Joe will talk today we can psychoanalyze his unwillingness to do the press conference today.
00:02:03
Speaker 3: What would have been worse though one day of this or he actually goes up today and he's in a bad mood from whatever. Right, Yeah, and then we spend the next five weeks debating his happiness again that I don't need, I.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Don't know, I don't need that, nobody wants.
00:02:19
Speaker 2: I mean, as much as I can lament the dearth of hard hitting Bengals topics this summer relative to recent seasons, I have no interest in that.
00:02:26
Speaker 1: I have no interest in that either. So this is probably for the best.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: You had the mandatory mini camp this week, and we'll talk about the chat you had with Elizabeth and Katy yesterday. But has there been anything that has stood out in the locker room or on the field this week from your perspective?
00:02:42
Speaker 1: Not really. I mean we were there today. It was like an hour and fifteen minutes.
00:02:46
Speaker 3: It was pretty light if you want to if you want to get a glimpse of the type of stuff that was going on today, big big news when we had I believe it was called the Doomsday unit was in there practicing field goals. It was Tanner Hudson holding, Ryan Rico kicking and Cam Grandy snapping. This is you got just in case, in case you get to a situation where any of those pieces are hurt. They have to know that they can execute. So they were they were going through kicking four or five field goals. That's where we're at with the field goals. Good three for four for Ryan kick. You said that it was the first time he probably kicked a field goal since his freshman year in college. But he's proven that he can do it now where he can be the guy to get you through a game and then they go get somebody, which is what he's looking But that's where any camp is currently living right now.
00:03:41
Speaker 2: Has he been practicing any punting, like inside the ten that sort of thing. Yeah, he's working onstead of just you know hitting you know Aaron Judge Holmers through the back of the end zone when they they're looking for a you know, a webshot.
00:03:57
Speaker 3: I didn't get into that well today, I was really really focused on the kicking.
00:04:03
Speaker 1: I get it.
00:04:03
Speaker 3: We'll get to that and train plenty of time to unpack that box.
00:04:06
Speaker 1: Okay, very good.
00:04:08
Speaker 3: No, I mean outside of that, I mean they're realistically there really hasn't been a you know, a ton all parties that you want to see were there and accounted for. So that was that was for the most part. Dax was on the side for the seven on seven level of an type stuff, but he said, he said, that's no big deal. He's fine, nothing really going on there. But outside of that, I mean, it's been just kind of it was kind of more of the same.
00:04:36
Speaker 1: Okay, very good.
00:04:37
Speaker 2: Yesterday you had the conversation with Katie Blackburn and Elizabeth Blackburn and I I said this after the Duke Tobin thing, and this is no disrespect to anybody who is in nonsports media who gets sent to cover those things. But I like it when it's just the folks who cover the team closely, you know, answering questions, because I think you guys are most in touch with most what most of us want to hear. So in that setting, what stood up most about what Elizabeth and Katie had to.
00:05:07
Speaker 3: Say, you know, it's that what we've been kind of talking about, is there The conversation sort of reflected the themes of the off season, which is, man, there's not a.
00:05:19
Speaker 4: Whole lot to really get after here, is there in terms of content where it could be content where we're broaching uncomfortable topics, which we always seem to be doing in these conversations with Katie, and there just really wasn't a whole lot uncomfortable yesterday.
00:05:33
Speaker 3: It was like, why are things going so good here? About how great that went? How about you know, it was really a lot of like things seem to be going really well. And that's the tone of it, and that's why maybe the takeaway is a little bit of how much it has continued.
00:05:50
Speaker 1: To do what it always does every time we have news.
00:05:53
Speaker 3: Is cycle more pressure onto this season because it just feels in such a good place right now, where all this pressure is now being put on this season and then consequently really being put on Zach Taylor. And you know, they sort of discussed that and you could feel that, I mean, it wasn't overwhelming. They weren't going out of their way to be like playoffs or bust or anything like that. It was very you know, easy, He's treated very easily. But I think there was a sense of everybody here expects a really good season, and so if that doesn't happen, there's gonna be a lot of other questions to be answered.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: I think was the unsaid part of that.
00:06:31
Speaker 2: It was, you know, I am a fan of the world champion New York Knicks.
00:06:36
Speaker 1: I heard that.
00:06:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, where the owner of the team, who is mostly somebody that I've despised for the better part of the last twenty five years. But he said publicly back in January, we need we should make the finals and we should win the finals. That's pretty much what he said, set it on the radio today, which put a lot of pressure on the world champion New York Knicks to eventually get to the finals and vanquish whoever they would play from the Western Conference. There was a part of me that was hoping for a Cincinnati Bengals version of that. I knew I wasn't going to get it, but I got some implications there that they believe like, Okay, maybe they're not going to the super Bowl, but we've we've kind of done our thing here and so now like it's it's kind of on Zach, it's on Joe, who have both admitted this to go do your thing.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker 3: I think they said that in their way, Yeah, I mean it was yeah, I think in their way, there was a like, yeah, this should be a great season. We were expecting that. I mean, that's that's we've done a good job. There's no glaring holes apparently, you know that there's there's no feeling of anything's missing from this team. And I think there's you know, obviously plenty of arguments you made that that's the case. But yeah, I think in their way, they said that this is the expectation, this it should look like that, but there's never gonna be you know there. It was always followed with, well, the season's got to play out and you never know what's going to happen, and that is fair. But I think that's you know that that was sort of the message in their way.
00:08:04
Speaker 2: This was And correct me if I'm wrong, because typically Katie will talk at the owners meetings. You went to the owners meetings, Katie didn't talk. This was basically in lieu of that.
00:08:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's why it was only myself, Ben Baby from ESPN and Kelsey Comace Inquirer and Jeff Hobson because we were the ones originally slated to talk and they kind of changed that after we all had planned to go out there. Yeah, and so there was okay, well we'll have a make good for you on that. We just want to change away the schedule went. And I'll say, like, looking back on it now, I give credit to them for the change. I liked the changes that were made in terms of what I felt like the messages were able to be delivered to fans by different people at important points in time, from putting Duke Tobin out there right after the season, which is where that needed to be, to making the assistant general managers available during the draft, which we great to hear those voices, and then having Katie and Elizabeth here now after the promotion she got this promotion to vice president along with Caroline, and to have those voices here together at this point. And then obviously the plan right now as far as we know is that we'll still have Mike at Mock Turtle Soup and everybody that's involved in that. I like that layout. Yeah, and I would let you you know, I'm always looking for more. I would still love to talk to people at the league meetings if there's but there's just a lot less news that comes out of the league meetings, which is true, Like that used to be a real Newsy Week. Now it's kind of the league is kind of shifted away from that. It's just you talk out there because everyone is and hopefully that will still have something out there. But I do think that this layout and the movement, I think it gives people the answers that they want. They hear from different people and at better mile posts, probably in the off season.
00:09:56
Speaker 2: So that's kind of where I was going, because it has felt like this offsea there has been and maybe transparency isn't the right word, but there's there's been a little bit more information coming from the Bengals and starting with the Duke Tobin mega press CONTI. I mean that's the biggest one, and that needs to happen on a on a regular basis. So is there a sense of, all right, we've got to be a little bit more forthright with information in our own way, and we have to take a little heat off Zach Taylor, who's still going to be the public voice of the organization or whoever the head coach is, just because of the volume of press conferences and availabilities that, yeah, he's going to do his thing, but like we we kind of have to.
00:10:36
Speaker 3: Be out there as well as that. Is this going to be the new norm? I guess I feel like this is going to be the new norm. I mean I think it. I haven't come across a single person inside or outside the organization that is thought the way things went was bad outside of obviously what that Duke Tobin press conference turned into. Yeah, but I don't think that's going to be the case going forward. Right, We've talked about that before, Like, I just think the nature of this season and that that had never happened for turned that into a thing that it probably that was way out of control. I don't think that'll be the case when that's just a regular part of the season structure. And so for that fact, I think that's But outside of that, like I think everything has been met with like, hey, this was all really good, and I think this is the way that things will probably operate out. I think it's also like at certain point you've got to reevaluate the way you're you're talking to your fans, but also when to talk to them and the league. The league does kind of change that, like just it's constantly stretching itself out where it's not at small like small points anymore, and you can kind of find your own your own lane and so I I think this is good. I think everybody felt like it was good, and I certainly liked hearing from the different voices at different times.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: Now one may say, well, this summer, there's no distraction, there's no Trey Hendricks, and there's no they're obviously players and both talked about like we've we've got some guys we want to resign, but there's no controversial holdout, hold in guy throwing shots like Shamar Stewart last year. When we get back to that and those things are you know, over the course of the next few years, is going to be unavoidable. They happen around the NFL. It's nice to not have them this year, But do you feel like what you had yesterday sort of goes away?
00:12:28
Speaker 3: If there's no no, no, I don't think that there's any move by anybody to have those people not out there talking about whatever's going on. At this point in time. There's not a ton, but I think I don't. I think it's more about finding the time that best fits, you know, in the new NFL calendar right now, and I don't think that there's I mean, certainly you would hear a lot from us if there was, you know, any idea of not having.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: Something like this available still, And I don't think that's the case.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: All are there is what you guys did yesterday, Is that the norm around the NFL?
00:13:07
Speaker 3: No, No, not not not really, I mean, I mean hear from all the time.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like there are there are teams where I couldn't name their owner because they're never out there.
00:13:18
Speaker 3: So like a lot of markets, just by the nature of what they are, it's there's a lot more people. And now there would have been more people in a normal year, but like, yeah, you know, but at the league meetings, that's probably not a crazy site like that in a courtyard there's like four or five media members with a GM or with an owner because those are the people that traveled out there. Like what happened in Cincinnati is not all that far off from what happens at the Biltmore or the Breakers or any of those things when they go down. So but no, I think the you know, the the access was was certainly like that's the best case scenario for anybody on any beat is to be able to just be able to sit down in a room in a very conversational environment with a small group of people where there doesn't feel like there's any jumping in or it's not a super intense it feels much more like a regular conversation with someone at that level in this league.
00:14:13
Speaker 1: That's hard to get. I'm very appreciative that we were able to get it.
00:14:17
Speaker 3: I wish it would have been like a year where we had more stuff to get.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: Right now.
00:14:23
Speaker 3: It was, you know, I'll say this, and I talked our good friend Richard Skinner. I talked about this with him yesterday, and he was pointing out that was an opportunity for them to take a little victory lap, and there was none. There was no like, hey, I mean the first my first question was basically like about how aggressive the off season had been, and like, you know, look, you guys, tod new precedent, this, this and this, it seems like it's gone. And it was basically like, would you like take a victory lap? And the answer was kind of no, Like it was more of a saluting the people around them, and they're just doing you know, it was very matter of fact and logical, and I guess I wouldn't have necessarily expected that from them, but it was there with the off season that they've had the decision to keep Duke and go forward with continuity and to see that play out advantageously to them and that personnel staff. To be sitting where they're at right now. There was a chance for a little bit of an off season victory lap, and they didn't.
00:15:22
Speaker 1: They didn't take it.
00:15:23
Speaker 3: Didn't like the ring of honor answer, nor did I. I mean, but here's the thing. But here's the thing I said, I'm not received a good answer on that question yet, and I don't know that that I I don't agree with that answer. I appreciated the answer. I just answer. I didn't like it because my point is, if it's about giving these guys the right moment, well let's make sure they get a moment. Let's make alive for the moment, right Like, if it's about giving them them a moment, let's not make it harder for them to actually get the moment. That was That'd be my side of what they said. But I see what they're saying with some of the the promotion of being on the ballot as part of it too. But I you know, I did I just disagree.
00:16:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, wholeheartily.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: But I appreciated the the relative candor with which the answer was provided.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: And I do believe that.
00:16:15
Speaker 3: They've put a lot of thought into it, which is what Elizabeth said. And I don't think that that's a stretch. I just, you know, I just I don't want to be talking about Ken Riley's and Bob Trumpy's and things like this anymore.
00:16:28
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that.
00:16:29
Speaker 2: I have a few of the things I want to ask you about, but that have nothing to do with Katie and Elizabeth. And I have maybe two assignments for you, okay, because I know there's not a lot going on. I need I need work.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: I got two assignments for you. We'll get to that when we come back.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: Twenty two minutes after three o'clock, Paul Danner Junior, covering the Bengals for the Athletic dot Com has two pieces on some of the things that were talked about yesterday, and the Growler podcast up as well.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: He's here till four. We are here toll six.
00:16:57
Speaker 2: We have the Reds and their win last night, with Chase Burns absolutely bodying Juan Soto. We have the Brendan sores By issued to discuss, and a lot of other ins and outs as well. On ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
00:17:08
Speaker 5: Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.
00:17:13
Speaker 2: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegger with Paul Danner Junior covering.
00:17:17
Speaker 1: The Bengals for the Athletic and the Growl of podcast. I don't know. Between now and training camp.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're taking some time off, but if you're in need of something to do, I was thinking this week, this would be pretty easy assignment for you. It's a supplemental mock draft. Sure, why not get a big board out for the supplemental draft?
00:17:37
Speaker 3: Can I do my supplemental mock draft? Yeah, it's just the big X on a piece of paper. Not happening. No, not here anyway.
00:17:44
Speaker 2: Bengals aren't taking Brendan Soresby in the supplemental draft.
00:17:47
Speaker 1: I don't see that no being a part of the equation. I guess.
00:17:51
Speaker 3: I mean, I I never want to say never anymore, all right with this team?
00:17:56
Speaker 2: So this team the most uncircused like off season of all trend setting trailblazers in Cincinnati.
00:18:03
Speaker 3: How could I possibly say that it's definitely off the Okay, I do not see that as a gift to people like me are you kidding me?
00:18:11
Speaker 2: Look here it is. We're taking Brendan Sourcebe in the supplemental draft. Go ahead, mo, all.
00:18:18
Speaker 1: Yours, all yours? Yeah, No, I do not do not see that uch?
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Can I ask you from a serious perspective as somebody who knows the league well and knows how NFL personnel people think. And obviously every team is different, every team's quarterback situation is different. But do you think Brendan Sorosby will have difficulty finding teams that are really interested in him?
00:18:38
Speaker 3: Somebody's gonna take a chance. I mean there, you know, we saw a little bit as the league, the college game has shifted. How empty the last couple rounds felt right as everyone just took a million tight ends because they were the one position they feel like there were a bunch of good ones in. It is the value of those late round picks. While there still is some that's it gets less and less. There's more and more guys stay in school and there's less early entrants and.
00:19:04
Speaker 1: Things like that.
00:19:06
Speaker 3: For that fact, somebody's got a six round pick or a fifth round pick, or they have comp pay, they've got a bunch, they've stockpiles, Like, what's the matter we got three fives next year, Let's let's start throw at a quarterback who can sit in the background. Maybe we can coach them up and see what we can get out of them and whatever. Right, I mean, at that position in the NFL, if you feel like he has the tools and you can get it out of him, somebody's somebody is going to be willing to use a late round pick to just see what they can do. So for me, I think that's probably where this thing, this thing lands. There's enough, there's just too much value, too much need to try to hit on something like that that some team wouldn't take a chance.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: But there have to be teams that view the gambling thing as a total non starter. Yeah, and I think a lot of them would.
00:19:57
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the idea of maybe he'll be a good quarter back with trumpet, I mean, his storyline is going to be minimal. Wherever he goes. I think you can put him in programs and deal with whatever this year. You're you're not gonna be counting on him to do anything this year. So if you're helping him get right, you're helping him get help. He's in your system. You got him in the whatever the NFL puts in place, the NFLPA puts in place to help that stuff.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: You can feel like you can come in to the twenty twenty seven season and see what you have for real.
00:20:30
Speaker 2: Well if when you're done with the mock supplemental.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: Tram, I'm done with that, so go ahead.
00:20:35
Speaker 2: I asked on social media last night what people enjoyed more the Brendan Soresby era at Texas Tech the Ryan Madson era with the Reds, which, for folks who don't remember, in the spring of twenty twelve, Reds had made a series of like all in moves that year, Matt Lato's, Sean Marshall, Ryan Ludwig. They also got Ryan Madson, who played one game of catch, blew out his elbow and never pitched in a regular season game or a spring training game for that matter for the Reds. And then there was my favorite of all time, Antoniobrian. And this was before I believe your full you were full time on the beat.
00:21:11
Speaker 1: No, but I was around. I was around, Yeah, I was there.
00:21:13
Speaker 2: So antonio'brien science with the Bengals, and it's the same offseason they get too, but right before they get too they started training camp in Georgetown and antonio'brien had like a knee issue or a hamstring or something, and as I recall, Marvin Lewis made him practice. That practice cost the Bengals like nine million.
00:21:32
Speaker 1: Dollars did cause, no, it was the nine million dollar practices. It is now known.
00:21:37
Speaker 2: You could do the oral history for the athletics of the nine million dollar practice.
00:21:43
Speaker 3: I'd do a thousand words on every limping step I saw this, dude make. I have never seen, you know how like it was the equivalent of like, you know, the tire drill or like the little where you're just doing steps over the pads. I've never once doubted if an NFL player can run over the pads in that drill until I saw that practice where I was like, Oh, I don't know that he's.
00:22:07
Speaker 1: Going to be able to do this. Why is he out there?
00:22:10
Speaker 3: And then you come to find out all the drama behind it of him being able to be out there and doing that was worth nine million dollars to him and a lot more of that makes sense. I believe a lot some people lost their jobs over that one, But I mean, his knee was people knew that his knee was shot coming into it, and everybody was waiting. Everybody was waiting to see Antonio. He's going to practice today and everyone, Oh no, I was.
00:22:37
Speaker 2: There, Lindsey Patterson and I drove down to Georgetown because like Teo was going to show up, right, And I remember looking at her going our other new wide receiver runs like he's got a keg of beer strapped to his shoulders, Like this isn't I don't think this is good. And then you came to find out like they made him practice and so like Antonio Bryant should send Christmas cards or something every year to a lot of folks, Yes, but primarily Marvin Lewis.
00:23:05
Speaker 3: He certainly benefited. I mean it was one of the wildest things where you just instantly knew, well, this guy's broken, this is not there spent a lot of money on this guy, and he is broken. And the crowds. Do you remember the crowds that you do? Yes, I will never forget the crowds at Georgetown during the.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: Toho Circus year. I remember that.
00:23:24
Speaker 3: I mean it was insane And the best part was the next year. So the next year, after that disastrous ten season, the disastrous following off season. Now in actuality they drafted Dalton and Agent Green or whatever, but that they were as low as they could be from a pr perspective with their fans entering eleven because they had just gotten roasted. And I remember being there at that same place talking to Cedric Benson in one of those little walking paths between the two fields where the previous year was over floats with just people everywhere, and Cedric just kind of stops me in the middle of it and he goes, man, do we have fans anymore?
00:24:10
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't think you do.
00:24:12
Speaker 3: I mean, it was unbelievable how few people were down. Then they ended up being, you know, a decent season and they kind of started the track back, but it was those two years are very.
00:24:23
Speaker 1: Vivid memories of a lot going on with the Cincinnati Bangles. Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that included a nine million dollar time million dollars. There's a little project for you. You know what I might do it if I I'll credit you in my my little story. If I if I can track down Antonio O'Brien, I'm sure he's around somewhere.
00:24:45
Speaker 1: I wouldn't much money.
00:24:47
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about the one time he practiced and got paid nine million dollars for you.
00:24:50
Speaker 1: At this point, I would have had a book written.
00:24:52
Speaker 3: If I was him about that where sixteen years removed, I think we can open up on it.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: Twenty four away from four o'clock Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Podcast Here till four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:25:06
Speaker 1: Not just talk.
00:25:07
Speaker 5: This is sports with soul, sweat and swagger. Tony Pike, Sincy three sixty Tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic on uce.
00:25:23
Speaker 2: Health TRAFFICCA see our service of a Kelsey Chevrolet Home of lifetime power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life kelseyshev dot Com. Red's play the Mets again tonight at gabp A for last night's three homer blowout wins spearheaded by Chase Burns doing Chase Burns thing. Euhaneo Suarez hit a couple of bombs and the Reds took the series opener, and you know, now they've won two out of three. Tonight they hand the ball to Brady Singer seven to ten, first pitch, seven hundred. Wl W Moore on that a little bit later on Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler pod cast is whether US Bengals training camp begins end of July. And I know we've talked about the relative quiet nature of the off season and the things that we're not talking about now that we were talking about a year or so ago. Let's talk about the extensions that could be done. Do you think that between now in July twenty eighth, it's at the first practice.
00:26:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that weekend. Do we believe that one of them will get done between now and then?
00:26:31
Speaker 3: Potentially these things go a couple different ways, because it feels like some years you get one that yeah right before camp starts, bam, just both sides saw eye to eye, they knocked it out. There's been a bunch of those over the years. Logan Wilson, Tyler Boyd like I can go through the line. I'm just thinking about them. This one feels a little harder. I'm talking about DJ just because it's more expensive and those tend to get a little bit more into the training, into training camp and further so, I'm not gonna say if I'm if I'm guessing, I would say maybe it bleeds over into camp a little bit. But there's a potential that it gets done. So I mean we've you've seen around the league. I mean, there's tons of big deals getting done right now. So I don't think it's out of the question. But as Katie said yesterday, you know, the quote was, we've got our work cut out for us when you consider the other commitments that.
00:27:29
Speaker 1: They also have.
00:27:30
Speaker 3: I mean they have five players with twenty plus million dollars against the cap next year. It's a lot. Now, they can do a lot of things. They can restructure a quarterback contract. Really yeah, they can't.
00:27:44
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:27:45
Speaker 3: But that said, I think the tone used on that suggests if you were thinking that all four of those extension candidates were happening, you're crazy.
00:27:54
Speaker 1: Sure.
00:27:54
Speaker 3: I would say it maybe pushes the number down to one and a half being the over under, okay, instead of maybe two and a half.
00:28:01
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:28:02
Speaker 3: I just think that I think one gets done with somebody. I think one of those four ends up getting a franchise tag next year, and then I think they try to find ways.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Maybe that most likely Brown Chase Brown.
00:28:16
Speaker 3: It feels most likely the running back number is easiest to handle, and so that feels like it would make the most sense. They don't have an answer. I mean, they'd be dependent on the draft. They don't really have an answer for his position right now in the long run, so it feels like a franchise tag, kick the can down the road, we'll try to get a deal done type thing. You can be surprised by that stuff, but that's certainly what it feels like right now.
00:28:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker 2: But in if there was one, and I know I made you do this like two weeks ago with your your run pass or boot that you do. But if one got done, the most likely one does feel like DJ.
00:28:59
Speaker 3: It does to me, Yeah, just because you know you're gonna start with what feels like the most expensive the best player. Yeah, and that's both both of those things would be DJ.
00:29:10
Speaker 1: Now.
00:29:11
Speaker 3: I love the idea of you know, this would be an interesting I would love to sit down and hear Miles Murphy and his representation's.
00:29:18
Speaker 1: Reaction if they drop three years forty five on them. Would you do it if I was them?
00:29:23
Speaker 3: You were Miles boy, I take it because think about it. If he has we talked about this. If he has a good year this year, he's boy mafe. Yeah, he's the same same resume if he has a good year this year or one that just looks like a second half of last year, which is twenty plus million dollars per and set right, would you take three years forty five right now or bet on yourself to for it could be twenty twenty five. Maybe he's a dafeoa and it's even better and twenty twenty five mil per year after this year if you have a big year or maybe not, like you're just your rolling the dice, Yes, what would you do?
00:30:01
Speaker 1: I take the security? Yeah, that's just me.
00:30:04
Speaker 2: Now that's from from the perspective of somebody who can't wrap my brain around making that kind of money. But there's there's a degree of security that the three for forty five offers me that I'm not turning down. Yeah, but I yeah, how well can you sleep at night thinking about what could have been? Especially if you do end up having this you have that year and.
00:30:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go out an opening day against Tampa and get two sacks, you are immediately a bargain. Yes, yes, you're like already you're like, no, you know, but I mean that's that's the game. Like, that's the kind of an offer the Bengals are in a position right to make to Miles, Right, make him make a decision if he wants the security or if he wants to try to bet on himself, and.
00:30:46
Speaker 1: Maybe they get a deal done then.
00:30:48
Speaker 3: But I just it's it's an he's the most He's an interesting one in that respect because you can go in on early on him and and and maybe save some money on the fact that you are offering him this because there's a good chance that he's going to be a lot more expensive next year.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: You signed the deal, you play the season, and then you complain about it.
00:31:07
Speaker 3: Look, he has a mentor that has blazed this path. You can just ask out of it the moment you sign it.
00:31:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:31:16
Speaker 2: Do you believe because the Bengals when they turned down the opportunity to pick up the fifth year option, that was stated publicly he's a guy we do want to work something out with long term. Yeah, so you believe there'll be some proactivity from the Bengals to offer him that kind of deal that he would have to make a tough decision about.
00:31:33
Speaker 3: I think there'd be interesting. I think there's gonna you know, I think there would be an offer that looks like that.
00:31:39
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, maybe it's lower, I don't know.
00:31:42
Speaker 3: I don't know specifics on what they would offer, but I think in more of like the philosophy of what we're talking about here. The exact numbers, I don't know where that would land, but like the philosophy of something that, hey, we can offer you some security, but if you have a big season, it'll be a bargain for us, right, And that's an interesting decision for a lot of players.
00:32:00
Speaker 2: I mean, three for forty five would put him where among edge rushers on an annual average annual basis, I mean not even.
00:32:08
Speaker 3: I mean it's below what the what the you know, the top tiers of the free agent ye that we're getting this year. It's it's in the middle. It's a solid for a young guy in his prime. It's a it's an okay deal, sure, I mean it's fifty million dot yes, But and it's also right at what his option would have been. So maybe their offer would be less than that or spread out differently, but doesn't matter. I just think the idea of are you a bet on yourself guy, or you are a security guy.
00:32:33
Speaker 1: I think it kind of comes down to that one. Anything. I'm a security guy.
00:32:37
Speaker 3: When you start talking about fifteen million dollars, I'm feeling real secure.
00:32:40
Speaker 2: I'm a security guy knowing that, you know what, maybe I can maybe I could become Trey Hendrickson two point zero for the latter part of the decade.
00:32:49
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember, I always vividly remember I mentioned Tyler Boyd because I vividly remember the conversation I had with him after he signed his deal where we all anticipated it being I think at that time around like twelve or thirteen mil per year and he signed for like ten. Yeah, and I remember saying, like he could have got He's like, man making ten million dollars, and I'm just happy about that. Yeah, I'm not out here. I didn't want to haggle over a couple of this or that I'm making lots of money. I'm happy here.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: I like it.
00:33:18
Speaker 3: Like he was very much about the quality of life and things like that. And you know, there's so much beaut that a lot of guys come and that's their approach, the one that we're talking about, and so you never know, and I think that's why the Bengals being offers that look like that Tigers said that the franchise tag year, yeah, right where he signed the tag and showed up and was here for everything and was like, dude, I'm making twenty one twenty one point eight million dollars, Like I don't know, dude, I'm pretty good.
00:33:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if I go and do what I do most seasons, I'll I'll get mine here or somewhere else. I was refreshing to hear. Yeah, the classic quote.
00:33:54
Speaker 3: In Bengals media lord from Michael Johnson when he got the franchise tag for whatever that was, and he goes, I'm from Selma, Alabama eleven point eight million dollars, Like it's just like, are you kidding me? Like this is so you know, and you know Aj Green talking about the franchise tag and his wife would kill him if he didn't go playing for that money, and.
00:34:16
Speaker 1: Right, that's yeah, that's what it is.
00:34:19
Speaker 3: But I think there's a lot of because of the situation there and then having their quote work cut out for them, I think there's gonna be a lot of you know, I don't know, haggling might not be the best word. But there's gonna be a lot of negotiation here in terms of how can they find a way to make all this work or what they want to work right now?
00:34:37
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I would do if I were any one of these guys is I would take a page from NBA Finals MVP Jalen Brunson left a lot of money on the table and he will recoup that tenfold and uh will be a legend for life because of what he did to help the NBA World Champion New York knickt win. And if these guys could accomplish something similar, and it's the result of maybe some guys making some financial sacrifices, they will be rewarded down the road as NBA Finals MVP, NBA Eastern Conference Finals MVP NBA Cup MVP Jalen Brunson is being rewarded in New York.
00:35:15
Speaker 3: Look, I'm just happy that you allowed me to still come in here and be in the presence of world your world champion.
00:35:19
Speaker 2: I try to get James Edwards to do an hour, and you gotta cover a parade, got a parade to cover, so there's things to do.
00:35:27
Speaker 3: But uh, you know, congratulations to you. Thanks what a What a run. It was awesome, What a run. It was hard between that and Carolina the next night, and then it was hard not to look at Katie and Elizabeth and think like, here it is, Yes, here it is. It's happening, Like it's the same. Like I wonder, you know, it's like, what do you guys think when you see things like that? It's like, man, what you can do for a city? I thought it was a beautiful what Monica McNutt said afterwards, like the the love letter that you can pen to your city and to your fans by bringing a championship is going to be the stuff that can be remembered forever.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: Right now, here's the chance.
00:36:08
Speaker 2: Of somebody who loves the Knicks and Bengals, but who lives here. I have watched the Knicks through the lens of imagine if we had something like that here. Yeah, And I think it can happen. So I'm hopeful.
00:36:23
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what it feels like now you honestly, there's never been a better opportunity for you to enter the Bengals Organization director of Common Sense and director of How to Bring a Championships.
00:36:34
Speaker 1: That's right, you can follow follow your Knicks model.
00:36:38
Speaker 2: So I'll tell this very quickly and then I know you gotta go. But we we had a luncheon today for some folks that we hope partner with us in the fall, and we had a couple of Bengals legends with us, and I had to moderate the Q and A. And this gentleman raised his hand to ask a question and he went right after my heart where he started to compare Joe Burrow to NBA Finals MVP Jalen Brunson. And somebody asked me, did you plant that guy? I'm like, no, but yeah, I yes, that's that's the comp I'm looking for.
00:37:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe Joe Burrow's restructure is kind of it's not. It's kind but it's not quite even you know, one hundred million.
00:37:27
Speaker 2: It's in the same canon of heroes. Yes, sure, we'll put it that way, all right. Thank you as always. Read the Athletic dot Com Paul Danner Junior's covers of the Bengals and the Growler Podcast latest episode with Jay Morrison reacting to everything that was said yesterday. It's five away from four o'clock on Moweger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports
00:37:48
Speaker 5: Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty t
