00:00:06
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks HEEDB.
00:00:11
Speaker 2: Wellington Rugby and local referees have struck a deal after abuse towards officials forced the cancelation of all club rugby this weekend. Nineteen incidents of verbal abuse have been reported this season, prompting referees to withdraw their services. Wellington Rugby and the Local Referees Association have now agreed on new measures to better support officials, with rugby set to resume next weekend. President of the Wellington Rugby Referees Association, Ben van Berkel joins me, now, very good morning to.
00:00:43
Speaker 3: You morning, Kerry. Thanks for having me on.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: Oh no, this is something that really grinds mcgear's it really does. But the thing that struck me is hearing about Russia being allowed back into the Olympics, into the Olympic Games. Now they were banned because of the war in Ukraine. They're now allowed back. But the war in Ukraine's going on here you've got rugby resuming. I cannot imagine that the attitudes of people will change in a week towards referees. So it's how is it going to change in a week.
00:01:15
Speaker 3: It's not so much that the attitude will change in a week. It's more that we start up for our referees by making this decision. And we've had really constructive conversations with WFE this week and we feel like we've got a more mutually beneficial path moving forward and we can put this to bed and just get through essentially the next six weeks of community rugby, and then we'll continue to work in the off season around twenty twenty seven and beyond.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: Because this is not a new problem. This is you know, we've done talk back on the abuse of officials and the disgusting abuse that they have to wear through numerous codes all around the country. Did you just not feel supported by Wellington Rugby? Is that why you had to make a stand.
00:02:05
Speaker 3: It's not that we didn't feel supported. There were some tension there in terms of the outcomes to some of the abuse incidents.
00:02:13
Speaker 2: I see.
00:02:15
Speaker 3: It was more around just we said enough is enough. After well we gave written letter to w I think it was about three weeks ago now saying that if this was to continue, we wouldn't be appointing referees, and that was after we'd had sixteen verbal abuse incidents, and then following three more last weekend, we decided that yeah, there's just this can't continue.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: I mean, jolly got on you. Why on earth should you give up your free time to go and referee a game you love to get that sort of abuse. And it's across all age groups. Is it or a specific age group or are there specific clubs that are worse than others?
00:02:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's across all age groups. Of the nineteen two have been in junior rugby. They are referees who haven't been appointed by us, but just like volunteer coaches who are out there referring to the kids. For example four we're in second score rugby in thirteen and senior club rugby. So I'm not going to go into specifics about clubs because it's I don't want to call them. It's more of a wider issue than just individual clubs.
00:03:23
Speaker 2: Well it is, as I say, it goes right around the country. You know, this is a nation wide issue. But then you look at the FIFA Games that are on now, and there's been some magnificent games and some amazing results, but you've got the Egyptian coach absolutely losing his shinizzle blaming the referee and accusing him to all intents and purposes, have been corrupt. And you think, how on earth is that. Are you supposed to tell people to respect the referee when one of the biggest games on the biggest platforms in the world, you've got people abusing the ref.
00:03:58
Speaker 3: Oh I fully agree, and the referee is always a very easy escapegoat for anyone to use. It doesn't matter what the players have done during that game, or actions of or tactics and everything that the coaches have done. If a referee can make one bad decision and look, we can own that we're not going to get everything right. You say, we're volunteers, We're just out there trying to facilitate a game. But one decision can come back and suddenly it's all the referees fault. It doesn't matter if the players in our context knocked on the ball ten times or committed all sorts of penalties. It's always the referees fault.
00:04:35
Speaker 2: Do you think because I know there was a bit of doing and throwing between the top tennis players in the in the Nadal Federer Djokovic era, where I think it was Federer who felt that you know it was pointless having computers. They were happy to go, you know, go with the swings and roundabouts that some calls went with you, some went against you, and you just accepted that it would work itself out in the end when you had humans calling the line calls. Do you think with a computerization of of refereeing that people are more demanding of referees.
00:05:16
Speaker 3: I think we need to separate professional refereeing from community referee because.
00:05:20
Speaker 2: I don't think we can do do they no exactly?
00:05:24
Speaker 3: For us, normally it's just one referee. We don't have assistant referees in probably ninety percent of the games we do, and we definitely don't have a television match official that we can go up to. So we'll just get one look at a decision we're making, and, like I've touched on, it could be wrong. We might have not seen something, but we are out there trying to do our best and make the decisions based on what we can see.
00:05:49
Speaker 2: What kind of abuse are you getting without saying the words themselves? Is it threats against ref's well being? Is it just been called a useless C word?
00:06:01
Speaker 3: Is it? Yeah, as you say, I can't you the exact language on here, but there are quite a few threats towards referees in our families. Go sometimes it is using profane language regarding decisions was made, whether that's from the players, the coaches, or spectators. But yeah, just anything, isn't it acceptable? Let alone threats towards my referees.
00:06:28
Speaker 2: Threats towards a referee over a social game of rugby. It's like, yep, it's what is this world coming to being? Honestly, no arguments. Okay, So speaking to I mean, I really love the fact that you have done this, that you've just drawn a line in the sand and said no, we're not putting up with this and it's not acceptable and we're going to call it out. I know I've only got you for about thirty more seconds. But what would your advice be to those who play and those who support rugby and sport around the country.
00:07:04
Speaker 3: Well, passion is a big part of rugby, and there's nothing wrong with passion, but one of the core values is also respect, and that respect should be shown to referees regardless whether we get a decision right or wrong. We're happy to have a constructive conversation after the game, for example, but there's no need to throw abuse at us. We're out there as volunteers to trying to have some fun with them, to players and facilitate a game that we all love. We are human, we're out there to enjoy it. So if they can do that themselves without throwing abuse at us, then all the better for it.
00:07:42
Speaker 2: Good on you, and I hope you. You know, if it doesn't improve, I hope you just draw a line in the sand again. And that happens right around the country. If reefs are getting abused, if officials are getting abused, just call it. No, you do it, then you ref the games. You think you're so bloody good, you do it yourselves.
00:07:59
Speaker 1: For more from Kerry Wood in Mornings, listen live to news Talks it'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks HEEDB.
00:00:11
Speaker 2: Wellington Rugby and local referees have struck a deal after abuse towards officials forced the cancelation of all club rugby this weekend. Nineteen incidents of verbal abuse have been reported this season, prompting referees to withdraw their services. Wellington Rugby and the Local Referees Association have now agreed on new measures to better support officials, with rugby set to resume next weekend. President of the Wellington Rugby Referees Association, Ben van Berkel joins me, now, very good morning to.
00:00:43
Speaker 3: You morning, Kerry. Thanks for having me on.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: Oh no, this is something that really grinds mcgear's it really does. But the thing that struck me is hearing about Russia being allowed back into the Olympics, into the Olympic Games. Now they were banned because of the war in Ukraine. They're now allowed back. But the war in Ukraine's going on here you've got rugby resuming. I cannot imagine that the attitudes of people will change in a week towards referees. So it's how is it going to change in a week.
00:01:15
Speaker 3: It's not so much that the attitude will change in a week. It's more that we start up for our referees by making this decision. And we've had really constructive conversations with WFE this week and we feel like we've got a more mutually beneficial path moving forward and we can put this to bed and just get through essentially the next six weeks of community rugby, and then we'll continue to work in the off season around twenty twenty seven and beyond.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: Because this is not a new problem. This is you know, we've done talk back on the abuse of officials and the disgusting abuse that they have to wear through numerous codes all around the country. Did you just not feel supported by Wellington Rugby? Is that why you had to make a stand.
00:02:05
Speaker 3: It's not that we didn't feel supported. There were some tension there in terms of the outcomes to some of the abuse incidents.
00:02:13
Speaker 2: I see.
00:02:15
Speaker 3: It was more around just we said enough is enough. After well we gave written letter to w I think it was about three weeks ago now saying that if this was to continue, we wouldn't be appointing referees, and that was after we'd had sixteen verbal abuse incidents, and then following three more last weekend, we decided that yeah, there's just this can't continue.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: I mean, jolly got on you. Why on earth should you give up your free time to go and referee a game you love to get that sort of abuse. And it's across all age groups. Is it or a specific age group or are there specific clubs that are worse than others?
00:02:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's across all age groups. Of the nineteen two have been in junior rugby. They are referees who haven't been appointed by us, but just like volunteer coaches who are out there referring to the kids. For example four we're in second score rugby in thirteen and senior club rugby. So I'm not going to go into specifics about clubs because it's I don't want to call them. It's more of a wider issue than just individual clubs.
00:03:23
Speaker 2: Well it is, as I say, it goes right around the country. You know, this is a nation wide issue. But then you look at the FIFA Games that are on now, and there's been some magnificent games and some amazing results, but you've got the Egyptian coach absolutely losing his shinizzle blaming the referee and accusing him to all intents and purposes, have been corrupt. And you think, how on earth is that. Are you supposed to tell people to respect the referee when one of the biggest games on the biggest platforms in the world, you've got people abusing the ref.
00:03:58
Speaker 3: Oh I fully agree, and the referee is always a very easy escapegoat for anyone to use. It doesn't matter what the players have done during that game, or actions of or tactics and everything that the coaches have done. If a referee can make one bad decision and look, we can own that we're not going to get everything right. You say, we're volunteers, We're just out there trying to facilitate a game. But one decision can come back and suddenly it's all the referees fault. It doesn't matter if the players in our context knocked on the ball ten times or committed all sorts of penalties. It's always the referees fault.
00:04:35
Speaker 2: Do you think because I know there was a bit of doing and throwing between the top tennis players in the in the Nadal Federer Djokovic era, where I think it was Federer who felt that you know it was pointless having computers. They were happy to go, you know, go with the swings and roundabouts that some calls went with you, some went against you, and you just accepted that it would work itself out in the end when you had humans calling the line calls. Do you think with a computerization of of refereeing that people are more demanding of referees.
00:05:16
Speaker 3: I think we need to separate professional refereeing from community referee because.
00:05:20
Speaker 2: I don't think we can do do they no exactly?
00:05:24
Speaker 3: For us, normally it's just one referee. We don't have assistant referees in probably ninety percent of the games we do, and we definitely don't have a television match official that we can go up to. So we'll just get one look at a decision we're making, and, like I've touched on, it could be wrong. We might have not seen something, but we are out there trying to do our best and make the decisions based on what we can see.
00:05:49
Speaker 2: What kind of abuse are you getting without saying the words themselves? Is it threats against ref's well being? Is it just been called a useless C word?
00:06:01
Speaker 3: Is it? Yeah, as you say, I can't you the exact language on here, but there are quite a few threats towards referees in our families. Go sometimes it is using profane language regarding decisions was made, whether that's from the players, the coaches, or spectators. But yeah, just anything, isn't it acceptable? Let alone threats towards my referees.
00:06:28
Speaker 2: Threats towards a referee over a social game of rugby. It's like, yep, it's what is this world coming to being? Honestly, no arguments. Okay, So speaking to I mean, I really love the fact that you have done this, that you've just drawn a line in the sand and said no, we're not putting up with this and it's not acceptable and we're going to call it out. I know I've only got you for about thirty more seconds. But what would your advice be to those who play and those who support rugby and sport around the country.
00:07:04
Speaker 3: Well, passion is a big part of rugby, and there's nothing wrong with passion, but one of the core values is also respect, and that respect should be shown to referees regardless whether we get a decision right or wrong. We're happy to have a constructive conversation after the game, for example, but there's no need to throw abuse at us. We're out there as volunteers to trying to have some fun with them, to players and facilitate a game that we all love. We are human, we're out there to enjoy it. So if they can do that themselves without throwing abuse at us, then all the better for it.
00:07:42
Speaker 2: Good on you, and I hope you. You know, if it doesn't improve, I hope you just draw a line in the sand again. And that happens right around the country. If reefs are getting abused, if officials are getting abused, just call it. No, you do it, then you ref the games. You think you're so bloody good, you do it yourselves.
00:07:59
Speaker 1: For more from Kerry Wood in Mornings, listen live to news Talks it'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
