00:00:13
S1: Some real concerns regarding the access taxi situation in South Australia. Let's chat about it with Jeremy Muir, who's the CEO for the Physical Disability Council. Jeremy. Oh, it's good to catch up and thank you for your time.
00:00:25
S2: Hi, Peter. Great to be with you again.
00:00:27
S1: Now, there have been some changes in the last little while here in South Australia. You're a little bit concerned regarding the repercussions of these changes.
00:00:34
S2: Yeah. Look we were we were concerned when we saw the, the policy changes around, um, how people with disabilities access or book access cabs in South Australia. And we just felt that perhaps the approach they, they have taken without seems to be without little or no consultation with, um, those that use access cabs. Um, we're just concerned about, you know, what those changes are.
00:01:02
S1: Now, many people may recall the situation. It was very public of a a young mother with a younger child, an 11 year old trying to get to a medical appointment. And they missed it because the access cab didn't turn up. I mean, I'm sure things like that happen regularly, but you feel it's a bit of an overreaction or a knee jerk reaction to one sort of public incident.
00:01:23
S2: Well, look, I mean, that incident for that family, you know, that that shouldn't happen and it shouldn't happen at any state. And our concerns is they've made these changes without any further consultation. You're right. Those sorts of incidences occur. Unfortunately, they occur in every state because trying to get an access cab when you really need it is difficult. But I think the response the government has put in place is a little bit knee jerk. And as I said, they have seemed to have done so without without any consultation with other users.
00:01:58
S1: I think part of the issue, if you like Jerry, with due deference to the ministers, and we actually had him on the program to talk about it. One of the concerns that we had and people expressed to us was that a really good system, not perfect, but a good system. Up until then was that if I were to use an access cab. I know Jeremy. He's a good bloke. I trust him or I trust him with my kids. I trust him with my family members. I'll give him a call and arrange him to pick me up tomorrow at nine. That now is no longer available. Or if you do that, the Jeremy the driver misses out on his fee.
00:02:32
S2: Yeah, and we understand that. Like if you're having to use access cab, if that is your only way of transportation, the only means of transportation, then you want it to be safe. You want it to be reliable and you want to have consistency around that service. You know, as a person who uses access cabs and and if you rely on them, you know, you have the right to be able to access those vehicles and feel safe in doing so, just like anybody else who catches a cab. And remember, people who use mobility devices like, you know, wheelchairs and so on and so forth. Usually cabs are their only means of transportation. Don't have the option of using Uber. Sometimes other sorts of transportation can be Difficult to use or, you know, they just don't fit your lifestyle. So if you're using excess carbs, you want to make sure that you can do so equitably, safely, and reliably. Because, you know, our lives are just as important as everybody else's, and you shouldn't be at the mercy of a system that doesn't meet your needs.
00:03:38
S1: Another issue is you're obviously very articulate. You kind of know what you want and what you don't want. You're able to express yourself. I mean, the way life goes, not everyone is in that position. And that's also really, really important to bear in mind when you're maybe even putting them at risk or as a family member, putting a vulnerable family member at risk are.
00:03:59
S2: Exactly. Imagine if a cab turned up, you had to put your family member or person that you support into a cab. You didn't know the driver. You were unsure about their, um, level of expertise, their level of knowledge of how to, you know best to work with people with disabilities and what that particular person's needs be. Um, it just creates a level of anxiety that's just completely unnecessary. But, you know, you're right. Particularly if you can't speak up for yourself and you can't make it knowing what you want. The other problem with also that is, even if you are a person that can articulate, there's a little bit of fear about speaking up and making yourself known because you think, what are the repercussions of that driver going to make this trip even more difficult for me? Are they not going to respond to my trips in the future? You know, so there's that vulnerability and that power imbalance that always occurs in these situations. And again, it shouldn't, but it does.
00:04:55
S1: So you've um, I know since the last time we spoke and certainly since last time we spoke regarding the transport minister, South Australia, there's been a change of minister. Emily Bourke is now the minister. Uh, you've got some thoughts regarding some things that could be at least considered.
00:05:11
S2: Yeah. Look, we, um, we we would like them to, you know, investigate, you know, the impact of eliminating the direct drive of bookings, as far as I'm aware. The numbers of people that use access cabs. This is data that's available daily, weekly, monthly. So it should be quite easy to see what the impact has been of eliminating this. You know, we want to assess whether this change has led to any improvements in service quality for users. You know, we'd like to explore what alternate methods there are to expand and improve transport options for people with physical disabilities in South Australia. Undertake a review to improve the current experience of users of access Cabs. You know, consider conducting a co-design development process involving people with disabilities to use these services regularly. And, you know, use their feedback to shape service improvements. Don't just as a government think, oh yeah, we've got cabs. That's good enough. How do we make this better for the users? And that's what it's all about isn't it. The end user. You know, and improve the knowledge base of accessible taxi drivers and increase the safeguarding so members of community can feel confident in in the driver's ability.
00:06:21
S1: That co-design work is so important. And we have some excellent advocates here in South Australia that could certainly represent the users of Access Cabs really, really well.
00:06:31
S2: Yeah, definitely. And you know, that's what you want. You want that local knowledge. You want those advocates that understand the system. Then they understand Adelaide in South Australia and can really add value to the to the whole process of, you know, of improving the quality of service.
00:06:47
S1: What about in terms of the drivers. Yeah, it's a two way equation if you like. We catch the cab. The drivers obviously got to earn a living and you know, sort of do his day to day task. What about sort of uh, consulting and taking their situation into account as well?
00:07:02
S2: Exactly. And if we're talking about, you know, what the impact has been of eliminating direct driver bookings, then let's talk to the taxi drivers. Let's talk to how it's impacted them and looks to talk to the drivers that perhaps felt they were impacted by that direct driver bookings. You know, there's a little bit of a lack of information on what the impacts been on both counts. And the reality is, if there's enough cabs, you know, uh, to provide the service, um, then there should be enough work for all drivers. So let's talk to the drivers and see what their issues are with with both systems direct driver and not pick.
00:07:39
S1: The minister made the point that, uh, you know, the problem was or the sort of peak hour, if you like, or peak time use for cabs was one of the issues that if everyone or if people were choosing their favorite driver and it was, you know, school run time or work time, then that might create a bit of an issue.
00:07:56
S2: And what I don't quite understand about that is if it's peak time and someone's booking a driver directly, then obviously they need that driver, so they're only booking them for that particular time. So what's the issue then in relation to what does the driver just sit around for three hours and wait for that person to finish their booking, or do two that they don't sit around the school all day and wait. So there's always going to be demands at peak time. So if drivers are missing out at peak time, what is the cause of that? Because you would think all drivers would be would have bookings at that peak time.
00:08:35
S1: I guess it's a bit like New Year's Eve or special occasions. Sometimes the wait is going to have to be longer, and I guess if you know that, that doesn't make it so good. Another really interesting point that you made, Jeremy. If people are uncomfortable about, you know, their personal support or their loved one, uh, going, uh, in the cab, that they might not know the driver very well, if particularly if it's a support worker, then that's time that comes out of, say, their NDIS package. If the support worker is travelling with the with the person on the NDIS.
00:09:06
S2: Exactly. And and if you're, if you're only using a support worker to come with you because you're unsure of the driver and you're unsure of the trip and you're unsure of your safety, and that's not necessarily appropriate use of your funds, isn't it? You want to use those funds when you really need them. Not because, gee, I don't know this driver. Maybe it's better if I have someone with me. Surely that's not what the government wants in relation to how people use their NDIS funding?
00:09:32
S1: Well, especially for last year. This time I didn't need that situation because I did trust her. Jeremy, who was picking me up.
00:09:38
S2: Exactly. And then if I have to use that funding as a support worker while I'm using a cab, then I can't use it elsewhere, you know? And then you're having to compromise on how you use those funds. And, you know, we all know that the funds aren't, um, are a bottomless pit of money that you get, you know, in your funding package. And you shouldn't have to compromise on how you use NDIS funding. Um, because, ah, it's probably safe if I use it while catching a cab.
00:10:06
S1: Yeah. We also spoke to the shadow spokesperson for transport to Ben Hood, who acknowledged these issues, and they were going to do some, um, I guess, you know, formulating policies because we have an election in March next year, which is not too far away. So we might see if they've come up with something because I guess, you know, even though the amount of people that use the excess carbs might not be huge, family members support workers, people they know could be. And, uh, whilst not going to say it's going to, it's going to turn an election, but it certainly could be something that at worst can be put into the public forum, which would be good for general awareness anyway.
00:10:41
S2: Yeah. And look, let's hope that the, um, the, the current opposition come up with some realistic and they, you know, they, they talk to those that need answers and want a better scheme because this, you know, it might not be a big issue for each individual, but it's certainly a big issue for, um, South Australians with disabilities and South Australians with disabilities have family members, have friends. And, you know, if they're aware of this issue, then that could influence their vote. And like the other point, Peter, I'd really like to make is remembering that the number of people with disabilities that use access cabs in Adelaide or South Australia, whatever that number is, we don't really know. But remembering again that we don't have the option to use Uber or other ride sharing facilities, so the demand for those services is certainly there. It's just how is it better utilized.
00:11:35
S1: Or indeed public transport? One of the points that was made by the minister was that people could email or ring and say, look, I'd like Jeremy to pick me up. But again, that's okay for a lot of people, but not for everyone. You know, some people might not either have the ability to send an email or indeed choose to. I mean, that's that's again a personal. Right.
00:11:55
S2: Well, you shouldn't have to go jump through more hoops to get a cab, should you? You should be able to call, get a cab like everybody else and know that your journey is going to be safe and reliable. Why make people with disabilities have to jump through more hoops just to get a cab? You know, and they're trying. We're just trying to meet our everyday needs and live our lives. Why make us jump through extra hoops to do that?
00:12:21
S1: Well, my next door neighbor who doesn't use access clubs doesn't have to do that.
00:12:24
S2: Exactly. And and do you know anybody without a disability that has to do that? Peter I don't.
00:12:29
S1: Know. No. So, Jeremy, you've put this media release out there. I guess you kind of wait and see what the response is to say. New minister in the chair. Uh, an election coming up. You know, we stand by for maybe some responses.
00:12:41
S2: Yeah. Um, usually we get a response. We haven't yet, but I'm assuming that we will, um, you know, we've we've had some little inroads in other states around different, uh, transport issues where we receive responses. So, um, we look forward to hearing from the minister and the government shortly.
00:12:57
S1: There's nothing like an election to get people motivated, Jeremy, but on both sides of the voting slip, if I can put it that way. So we'll see what happens exactly.
00:13:05
S2: Peter, let's let's hope we get some positive outcomes with this.
00:13:08
S1: Thanks to Jeremy.
00:13:09
S2: Thank you Peter, much appreciate it.
00:13:11
S1: Who's the CEO for the Physical Disability Council? If you've had some experience in this area we'd love to hear from you. So get in touch and we will chase up the Minister and the Shadow Minister. We'll at least put in a request and see where we go to from there.
S1: Some real concerns regarding the access taxi situation in South Australia. Let's chat about it with Jeremy Muir, who's the CEO for the Physical Disability Council. Jeremy. Oh, it's good to catch up and thank you for your time.
00:00:25
S2: Hi, Peter. Great to be with you again.
00:00:27
S1: Now, there have been some changes in the last little while here in South Australia. You're a little bit concerned regarding the repercussions of these changes.
00:00:34
S2: Yeah. Look we were we were concerned when we saw the, the policy changes around, um, how people with disabilities access or book access cabs in South Australia. And we just felt that perhaps the approach they, they have taken without seems to be without little or no consultation with, um, those that use access cabs. Um, we're just concerned about, you know, what those changes are.
00:01:02
S1: Now, many people may recall the situation. It was very public of a a young mother with a younger child, an 11 year old trying to get to a medical appointment. And they missed it because the access cab didn't turn up. I mean, I'm sure things like that happen regularly, but you feel it's a bit of an overreaction or a knee jerk reaction to one sort of public incident.
00:01:23
S2: Well, look, I mean, that incident for that family, you know, that that shouldn't happen and it shouldn't happen at any state. And our concerns is they've made these changes without any further consultation. You're right. Those sorts of incidences occur. Unfortunately, they occur in every state because trying to get an access cab when you really need it is difficult. But I think the response the government has put in place is a little bit knee jerk. And as I said, they have seemed to have done so without without any consultation with other users.
00:01:58
S1: I think part of the issue, if you like Jerry, with due deference to the ministers, and we actually had him on the program to talk about it. One of the concerns that we had and people expressed to us was that a really good system, not perfect, but a good system. Up until then was that if I were to use an access cab. I know Jeremy. He's a good bloke. I trust him or I trust him with my kids. I trust him with my family members. I'll give him a call and arrange him to pick me up tomorrow at nine. That now is no longer available. Or if you do that, the Jeremy the driver misses out on his fee.
00:02:32
S2: Yeah, and we understand that. Like if you're having to use access cab, if that is your only way of transportation, the only means of transportation, then you want it to be safe. You want it to be reliable and you want to have consistency around that service. You know, as a person who uses access cabs and and if you rely on them, you know, you have the right to be able to access those vehicles and feel safe in doing so, just like anybody else who catches a cab. And remember, people who use mobility devices like, you know, wheelchairs and so on and so forth. Usually cabs are their only means of transportation. Don't have the option of using Uber. Sometimes other sorts of transportation can be Difficult to use or, you know, they just don't fit your lifestyle. So if you're using excess carbs, you want to make sure that you can do so equitably, safely, and reliably. Because, you know, our lives are just as important as everybody else's, and you shouldn't be at the mercy of a system that doesn't meet your needs.
00:03:38
S1: Another issue is you're obviously very articulate. You kind of know what you want and what you don't want. You're able to express yourself. I mean, the way life goes, not everyone is in that position. And that's also really, really important to bear in mind when you're maybe even putting them at risk or as a family member, putting a vulnerable family member at risk are.
00:03:59
S2: Exactly. Imagine if a cab turned up, you had to put your family member or person that you support into a cab. You didn't know the driver. You were unsure about their, um, level of expertise, their level of knowledge of how to, you know best to work with people with disabilities and what that particular person's needs be. Um, it just creates a level of anxiety that's just completely unnecessary. But, you know, you're right. Particularly if you can't speak up for yourself and you can't make it knowing what you want. The other problem with also that is, even if you are a person that can articulate, there's a little bit of fear about speaking up and making yourself known because you think, what are the repercussions of that driver going to make this trip even more difficult for me? Are they not going to respond to my trips in the future? You know, so there's that vulnerability and that power imbalance that always occurs in these situations. And again, it shouldn't, but it does.
00:04:55
S1: So you've um, I know since the last time we spoke and certainly since last time we spoke regarding the transport minister, South Australia, there's been a change of minister. Emily Bourke is now the minister. Uh, you've got some thoughts regarding some things that could be at least considered.
00:05:11
S2: Yeah. Look, we, um, we we would like them to, you know, investigate, you know, the impact of eliminating the direct drive of bookings, as far as I'm aware. The numbers of people that use access cabs. This is data that's available daily, weekly, monthly. So it should be quite easy to see what the impact has been of eliminating this. You know, we want to assess whether this change has led to any improvements in service quality for users. You know, we'd like to explore what alternate methods there are to expand and improve transport options for people with physical disabilities in South Australia. Undertake a review to improve the current experience of users of access Cabs. You know, consider conducting a co-design development process involving people with disabilities to use these services regularly. And, you know, use their feedback to shape service improvements. Don't just as a government think, oh yeah, we've got cabs. That's good enough. How do we make this better for the users? And that's what it's all about isn't it. The end user. You know, and improve the knowledge base of accessible taxi drivers and increase the safeguarding so members of community can feel confident in in the driver's ability.
00:06:21
S1: That co-design work is so important. And we have some excellent advocates here in South Australia that could certainly represent the users of Access Cabs really, really well.
00:06:31
S2: Yeah, definitely. And you know, that's what you want. You want that local knowledge. You want those advocates that understand the system. Then they understand Adelaide in South Australia and can really add value to the to the whole process of, you know, of improving the quality of service.
00:06:47
S1: What about in terms of the drivers. Yeah, it's a two way equation if you like. We catch the cab. The drivers obviously got to earn a living and you know, sort of do his day to day task. What about sort of uh, consulting and taking their situation into account as well?
00:07:02
S2: Exactly. And if we're talking about, you know, what the impact has been of eliminating direct driver bookings, then let's talk to the taxi drivers. Let's talk to how it's impacted them and looks to talk to the drivers that perhaps felt they were impacted by that direct driver bookings. You know, there's a little bit of a lack of information on what the impacts been on both counts. And the reality is, if there's enough cabs, you know, uh, to provide the service, um, then there should be enough work for all drivers. So let's talk to the drivers and see what their issues are with with both systems direct driver and not pick.
00:07:39
S1: The minister made the point that, uh, you know, the problem was or the sort of peak hour, if you like, or peak time use for cabs was one of the issues that if everyone or if people were choosing their favorite driver and it was, you know, school run time or work time, then that might create a bit of an issue.
00:07:56
S2: And what I don't quite understand about that is if it's peak time and someone's booking a driver directly, then obviously they need that driver, so they're only booking them for that particular time. So what's the issue then in relation to what does the driver just sit around for three hours and wait for that person to finish their booking, or do two that they don't sit around the school all day and wait. So there's always going to be demands at peak time. So if drivers are missing out at peak time, what is the cause of that? Because you would think all drivers would be would have bookings at that peak time.
00:08:35
S1: I guess it's a bit like New Year's Eve or special occasions. Sometimes the wait is going to have to be longer, and I guess if you know that, that doesn't make it so good. Another really interesting point that you made, Jeremy. If people are uncomfortable about, you know, their personal support or their loved one, uh, going, uh, in the cab, that they might not know the driver very well, if particularly if it's a support worker, then that's time that comes out of, say, their NDIS package. If the support worker is travelling with the with the person on the NDIS.
00:09:06
S2: Exactly. And and if you're, if you're only using a support worker to come with you because you're unsure of the driver and you're unsure of the trip and you're unsure of your safety, and that's not necessarily appropriate use of your funds, isn't it? You want to use those funds when you really need them. Not because, gee, I don't know this driver. Maybe it's better if I have someone with me. Surely that's not what the government wants in relation to how people use their NDIS funding?
00:09:32
S1: Well, especially for last year. This time I didn't need that situation because I did trust her. Jeremy, who was picking me up.
00:09:38
S2: Exactly. And then if I have to use that funding as a support worker while I'm using a cab, then I can't use it elsewhere, you know? And then you're having to compromise on how you use those funds. And, you know, we all know that the funds aren't, um, are a bottomless pit of money that you get, you know, in your funding package. And you shouldn't have to compromise on how you use NDIS funding. Um, because, ah, it's probably safe if I use it while catching a cab.
00:10:06
S1: Yeah. We also spoke to the shadow spokesperson for transport to Ben Hood, who acknowledged these issues, and they were going to do some, um, I guess, you know, formulating policies because we have an election in March next year, which is not too far away. So we might see if they've come up with something because I guess, you know, even though the amount of people that use the excess carbs might not be huge, family members support workers, people they know could be. And, uh, whilst not going to say it's going to, it's going to turn an election, but it certainly could be something that at worst can be put into the public forum, which would be good for general awareness anyway.
00:10:41
S2: Yeah. And look, let's hope that the, um, the, the current opposition come up with some realistic and they, you know, they, they talk to those that need answers and want a better scheme because this, you know, it might not be a big issue for each individual, but it's certainly a big issue for, um, South Australians with disabilities and South Australians with disabilities have family members, have friends. And, you know, if they're aware of this issue, then that could influence their vote. And like the other point, Peter, I'd really like to make is remembering that the number of people with disabilities that use access cabs in Adelaide or South Australia, whatever that number is, we don't really know. But remembering again that we don't have the option to use Uber or other ride sharing facilities, so the demand for those services is certainly there. It's just how is it better utilized.
00:11:35
S1: Or indeed public transport? One of the points that was made by the minister was that people could email or ring and say, look, I'd like Jeremy to pick me up. But again, that's okay for a lot of people, but not for everyone. You know, some people might not either have the ability to send an email or indeed choose to. I mean, that's that's again a personal. Right.
00:11:55
S2: Well, you shouldn't have to go jump through more hoops to get a cab, should you? You should be able to call, get a cab like everybody else and know that your journey is going to be safe and reliable. Why make people with disabilities have to jump through more hoops just to get a cab? You know, and they're trying. We're just trying to meet our everyday needs and live our lives. Why make us jump through extra hoops to do that?
00:12:21
S1: Well, my next door neighbor who doesn't use access clubs doesn't have to do that.
00:12:24
S2: Exactly. And and do you know anybody without a disability that has to do that? Peter I don't.
00:12:29
S1: Know. No. So, Jeremy, you've put this media release out there. I guess you kind of wait and see what the response is to say. New minister in the chair. Uh, an election coming up. You know, we stand by for maybe some responses.
00:12:41
S2: Yeah. Um, usually we get a response. We haven't yet, but I'm assuming that we will, um, you know, we've we've had some little inroads in other states around different, uh, transport issues where we receive responses. So, um, we look forward to hearing from the minister and the government shortly.
00:12:57
S1: There's nothing like an election to get people motivated, Jeremy, but on both sides of the voting slip, if I can put it that way. So we'll see what happens exactly.
00:13:05
S2: Peter, let's let's hope we get some positive outcomes with this.
00:13:08
S1: Thanks to Jeremy.
00:13:09
S2: Thank you Peter, much appreciate it.
00:13:11
S1: Who's the CEO for the Physical Disability Council? If you've had some experience in this area we'd love to hear from you. So get in touch and we will chase up the Minister and the Shadow Minister. We'll at least put in a request and see where we go to from there.
