S2E3: Breaking Down "The Profligate" - Episode 3 of Season 2 of Fallout on Amazon Prime

Hi everybody, and welcome back to I Will Go down with this Ship. My name is Heather and I'm Chelsea. And today we are going to dissect episode three. But before we jump in, we had a question slash comment from our last episode and we want to definitely address that. If anyone has any questions or comments or theories or like, you want to ask us stuff, feel free to leave us comments.
We love that kind of stuff. So this comment is from Cuddlefish. First of all, thank you so much for dropping it. It is a very, very big comment, so we are going to take it piece by piece. Chelsea, why don't you start us off just basically talking about the first thing that the commenter says is.
I'm surprised that you didn't explore deeper on the fact that Cooper and Lucy pretty much had their first big fight before the shit show in the hospital. Like, so let's dissect that if you want to jump in first. Right. Well, like, obviously they've been fighting since they met each other, but the tone is different this season. Let's be perfectly clear about that.
Like, there's a feeling of like exasperated fondness behind the fighting a little bit. And there's an implicit kind of trust there that they have with each other. And even like before this.
Communication breakdown. Yeah. In the hospital, let's say. And you know, like, I'm just going to say it. It's very passive aggressive married couple energy.
Like, you've been around each other for so long. Which again brings me back to, like, I want to know how long that they've been traveling together before we got to see them in episode one. Because there's like, been a lot of energetic development between them. And like, this is very married couple. I'm not speaking with you right now because I just can't deal with you passive aggressive energy.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that I loved watching the communication breakdown because it reminds me so much of a married couple. I think Ella called them a married couple multiple times in, in interviews and stuff like that. Like, she. They remind her of like an old married couple.
I could be wrong. The interview blur together. But in terms of us not picking up on, like, it being their big fight, I think the big issue that me and Chelsea have is that because. And we're just estimating based on potential, like they're getting sidetracked with bullshit. Plus the logistics of actually walking to Las Vegas, Santa Monica, that's about 10 days on a.
On a good. We're walking 18 hours a day kind of thing. So I think Chelsea and I are estimating that they've probably been traveling together for about two weeks, maybe a little bit more at this point. And like Chelsea mentioned, I think that because there's this exasperated fondness and also this trust, I mean, we clearly see that at the very least, Cooper trusts Lucy to shoot the rope, and he would never put himself in such a vulnerable position if he did not trust her. That they've kind of argued out their differences off the screen.
And this is one of the issues, like I mentioned that Chelsea and I had because we wanted to see those arguments. We wanted to see how they've established the. Their roles in this dynamic that they have. I think that the argument that they do have in the. Like, on the way to the hospital, I think it's really funny because I think that Lucy makes really excellent points about, why are you such a dick?
I'm sure your family's not going to want you to be such a dick. And the fact that she let, like, he let her talk about his family, I think is a huge thing, because I would have assumed that he would have been like, don't talk about my family. Like, don't bring them up. I don't want to talk about them. So in terms of us sort of like, not touching on it, I think that it's just because we've assumed that they've had these fights already, and we've seen them clearly in season one, arguing all the time.
Like, they have had a lot of fights. But like Chelsea mentioned, the tone is very different. It's more exasperated affection, but also familiar. Like, we've had this argument before or we've discussed, like, I just see, like, Cooper. Every time Lucy's ready to go sidetrack and save someone, Cooper's literally just, like, rolling his eyes and he's.
But he follows her like, this is nothing new for him. So I think that's something why we didn't really go into that.
So, yeah, like, I think that.
Let's see, what else. That he cannot be trusted. He also used another person as a human shield. And in her worldview, that was unforgivable. Yeah, I agree with.
With that. That, like, Cooper using the tunic as a human shield is just like, that pissed Lucy off because of his complete disregard for human life. And I think that's one of the lessons that she has to learn.
And I think that. I think that Lucy desperately wants to change Cooper because deep down, I think she even mentions. I can't remember what episode, but even she mentions that, you Know, you pretend the hope is gone, but the hope is still in there, or else, basically, you wouldn't be chasing after a family 200 years after, you know, they've disappeared. So I think she desperately wants him to be this good guy that she believes he is instead of just accepting him for who he is right now in this moment. And I think that especially with everything that happens in episode three, and then, of course, episode four was Chef's Kiss, I think that we really see her realize that not the world is not black and white.
Sometimes you need to be addicted to drugs to save your life. Like, sometimes it just needs to happen. Like, so. So in terms of that, I think that she's grieving the loss of her identity, the loss of the way that she was raised, and she's desperately clinging to this notion of how people should be, not just Cooper, but the way this tunic is supposed to be. And it's easy for her to lash out to Cooper because there is that trust between them, because she does trust that he can be cruel and a monster and all of those things, but at the same time, she's comfortable enough to lash out, even though she's seen what he can do and how dismissive of life he can be.
Now, whether that means he. You know, she trusts that he won't hurt her because she represents something to him or that she's an ends to a means that. That's up for debate. But I think it does speak to their relationship that she's comfortable being that honest and being kind of a dick to him, basically, in that moment. But Chelsea, let me.
Yeah, go ahead. I really love that she's kind of, in this season, really giving as good as she gets. Yeah. From him with the. The being a dick and like, the.
The report is sharper and snappier, and you don't talk to a person that. Like that. That you are not comfortable with unless you wish said person to, like, exit your life. And I don't think that's the case for Lucy at all. So it does show a massive level of comfort between the two of them that feels comfortable enough to.
To, like, call him on his. Oh, I call him higher. Honestly, I absolutely agree, because, I mean, we see it in that moment in the hospital. He literally kills the dude, and he uses the tunic as a human shield. If he completely disregarded Lucy's life, he could have used Lucy as a human shield and given her the stim pack.
There's nothing that says he cannot overpower her. He's Cooper Howard. He is A powerful bounty hunter. So I just think that she trusts him not to hurt her or to, like, kill him. Like, kill her.
And he obviously trusts her too. Okay, so, Chelsea, let's jump into the next part where you know about Norm. So the commenter wants to know what our expectations for Norm is as a story writer, because at the moment, they can't seem to point their finger to what they plan to do with him, and they're worried that he will become a mirror to his father. Father, or they're just going to waste his arc. And part of this commenter says, you know, there's a 50, 50 chance that they make him find or run into Janie and Barb on accident in some shape or form.
So what do you think about that? I think episode four really did inform that, and I think there is a high probability that he is going to run into Janie and Barb, but we will get to that more in episode four. Like, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here. Yeah. But I do think there's a high probability of that.
What I hope and what I would try to do personally as a writer is make Norm everything that Hank could have been and really, like, show these qualities that, yes, Norm inherited from Hank, but show them in a more heroic light. I really don't want Norm to end up being a shit bag like Hank. I don't think.
I don't think that he would be just based on everything we know of him from season one in his arc. Because I think, like you said, I think it's like Hank has always been ambitious. He was Barb's, I think, administrator, executive assistant. So he was kind of like, Barb was his boss. And I think that he's always sort of not only wanted the power, but I mean, even though he's kind of like, we see him now working on, you know, the.
The. The little machine, the. The neck, you know, mind control thing. And he's still. It almost feels like he's working for someone and he doesn't mind the role that he's in.
I think when it comes to Norm, Norm has never wanted power. He has never been ambitious. And I think that he's almost forced to take a leadership role in order to, like, understand the truth. And so I feel like his arc is more about, do you want to kind of stay in the safety of the vault, or do you want to actually learn the truth, not only about the world around you, but about your family? And it's almost in a way similar to Lucy's arc, but they're going about it in very different ways because Lucy has always been a leader.
She's always done her duty. She's always followed the rules. Norm wasn't like that. Norm had to be moved around because he didn't really get along well with others because he's so damn smart, and he just doesn't have patience for everyone's. But now he's going to be forced to have patience in order to work with these vaultes who have so much more knowledge about the world before him and yet be so naive about the world that's going on right now.
And so he has to sort of like what he mentioned to Bud Askins in episode one. He has to get this chaos under control. And I think that. I mean, it's. It could be clear, like, it could be that he does take a villain arc.
I just don't think that they're going to do it. I think it's more of Hank or. Or Lucy and Norm are going to do things sort of the right way, in complete contrast to Hank, even though. Even though Hank clearly loves his kids and thinks he's doing the wrong thing, but for the right reasons, like Shady Sands, like, all of that stuff. So that's kind of how I see Norm as of right now, in terms of finding Janie and Barb, that would be extremely interesting, especially depending on how Barb presents herself.
And so in a way like that would like if. If Cooper actually trusts Lucy enough to tell him the truth about, you know, who he is and. And all of that. And you have Barb over here telling Norm something very different. And when they meet, you have brother, sister who do trust each other and who do love each other.
You're gonna be. Put them in a very interesting position of, like, who do I trust? Do I trust my brother? Who, you know, like, all. That would be a very intriguing point, but, yeah, that would be interesting.
It could also be really fun to watch, like the. The panic spiral while they compare notes. Yeah, absolutely.
So, yeah, in terms of Norm, I. We both love Norm, honestly. Like, the romantic in me wants him to find a girl who kind of pushes him and challenges him and, like, I don't know, helps him develop in that way. Not that he needs to. I'm not, you know, trying to make everything into romance, but I would just like that because I like him so much.
Right. Well. And as romance writers, like, I feel like we have a tendency to romanticize everything, and, like, some people really don't like that. But sue me, like, I'm a romance writer. I. I've been a shipper for like my whole life in fandoms.
I'm never gonna stop romanticizing things and I'm not. Sorry. Let's just be really clear on that. So, yeah, so that's our take on that. And then they continue.
I firmly believe Max might choose a Brotherhood after his own ideals over Lucy in some form or fashion in the show. I like that Max takes on a more self assured role in season two, but I don't think he is anything close to a mastermind. I agree with. I think it was Dane or another third party that notified the Commonwealth chapter. That being said, the Commonwealth guy was very weird and I love the theory that he might have been a synth because he calls the clerics cockroaches and not rad roaches, which is a really good point.
And it's weird. But hey, maybe the education and vocabulary is different in the Brotherhood. I. I agree. I don't know. Max is interesting, especially after watching episode four.
Obviously we're not going to get into episode, but what do you think, Chelsea? Do you think Max might choose the Brotherhood after his own ideals over Lucy in the show? Like if he had to? I actually, I think I could see Max choosing himself over Lucy and like his own growth and him like stepping into this role of leaving the world a little better place than how he found it, like his father taught him. Yeah.
You know, No, I. I could. I could see him choosing that and that ideal over Lucy. I could also see him taking on a role within the Brotherhood community, but like reshaping the Brotherhood in a similar way that his dad sort of helped reshape. Yeah. Shady Sands.
Only because I feel like. And we'll get into it when we discuss episode three, but I feel like Max is just. His whole life, he's just been told what to do and he's earnest and genuine, but somehow, even when he tries to do the right thing, he does the wrong thing. And it's sort of like this poor kid cannot catch a break. And addressing the part in the comment where they don't think that Max was a mastermind or reached out to the Commonwealth upon watching episode four, I would agree that it was probably Dane or someone else.
And I lean hard to Dane because Dane is very much a moral compass. Yeah. And so I just think that with Max, I think that. Yeah, I. I think that he would choose the. The Brotherhood, but not the Brotherhood as we know it right now.
More like a reshaped version of it with Dane with the Codex. Like. Like following the Codex and also altering the Codex and, like, making people realize that, like, not all ghouls are bad and there's never any excuse to kill children. Right. Whether they're ghouls or not.
Yes. And sort of reshaping the civilization through morals that aren't being, you know, misconstrued or taken advantage of or. Oh, when it's convenient. I'm going to ignore what the Codex says in order to get more power or wealth or power fusions or whatever. So I do.
And I. And I think that Lucy would accept that choice with understanding. I think that. I think. I would hope that they end this as friends who respect each other and they have a responsibility and a duty to other groups or other people.
I think that Max, especially watching him interact in episode two with a kid and like, telling him we have to take our problems and make them smaller and, you know, that sort of thing. I really see him taking on a leadership and a mentorship role. It's just a matter of getting his, like, having more confidence in who he is and not needing, you know, anyone. Quintus, whatever, even to a degree. Dane.
I want to tell him what to do. I want to make his own decisions and really grow into himself. Yeah. To. To define what he wants in terms of his own morality and what he truly believes in.
And I think it's like what you said, Chelsea. It's going to go back to, let's leave the world a better place. Now, that's an interesting, ominous kind of thing. Does that mean that Max winds up making a sacrifice? You know, oh, don't put that on my heart.
I know, right? Like, that would. Like, that would wreck me. But, I mean, that would be a very interesting narrative device that they used, which would line up with everything. Yeah.
And it would be like a beautifully heartbreaking call back to his father. But I will be pissed if it happens. Right. So anyway, so I think that that wraps up the comment again. Thank you so much.
It was such a detailed comment. It was really fun to sort of break that down. And if anyone has any other theories or comments that they want us to discuss, please, we love that stuff. Like, let us, like, give it to us. Like, we're here for all of it.
So with that being said, we're gonna jump into the episode. The I'm help me profligate. Yes. I loved it. We see Thaddeus.
Like, we open with Thaddeus. I already know it's gonna be a good. It's gonna be a great episode. Like, that's my bae. I love him.
And it's like, it's so damn funny. I love it. He's perfect. He's literally like Thaddeus. Like, so I. I just thought it was such an interesting.
Like, again, it's the world building. It's like, we see that there are kid ghouls, and we see that there are regular ghouls, and they're just working together, and Thaddeus is in charge of them. And you know what? That does a damn good job. Like, I was like, you know what?
You're good, Thaddeus. You're great with kids. Good job. I just. I was impressed.
I was very impressed. I was, too. Yeah. Like, he's giving these kids advice. He's helping them.
I mean. Yes. Are the shifts child labor resistant? Yes, absolutely. 100%.
But this is the wastelands. There's a different type of morality. And, you know, he's teaching the kid how to open the bottles with his hand. You know, when one of the girls is pouting and, you know, he's like, why aren't you making money for me? And, you know, he handles that.
Like, he's doing a lot of conflict resolution, right? And, like, you know, they're talking about, like, Thaddeus, who is supposed to be this monster, this abomination. And he's basically like, hey, there's nothing wrong with being a ghoul, except you're not a ghoul. And there's nothing wrong with being a smooth skin, you know? And it's just funny because you have these quote unquote monsters who are actually giving good advice and being more moral than you.
The brotherhood. Yep. Who would call them abominations? Like, come on now. And I. I love that Thaddeus is just a sunshine.
Like, he's like, guys, we have a roof over our head. You know, we could be, like, dead right now. But we're not. Right? Like, most kids are dead, but yeah, so.
And then he. He sends everyone back to work. And so I just. I just thought that was great. And then the scene flashes, and we get.
We get Lucy. I love this. I love this, because Lucy just can't help herself. Ms. Smarty pants over here. I just.
I don't know. I just love that they call him Kaiser and they don't realize it. And she's, like, educating them. Like, history teacher over here is just telling them, no, you're wrong. You're not Kaiser.
You're Caesar. I just thought that was so funny. That was hilarious. And then they are just. Okay, first of All.
Can we just give, like, Matt McClelan, like, perfect. Like, I loved it. I thought it was great. He was great. Makai Culkin was great.
What did you think? Chelsea Culkin was freaking excellent. I was so excited. He played it so, so well. Like, his face, like, when she's like, by the way, I'm not even a virgin.
And the list of cousin stuff that I like. His face was just, like, perfect. Good. It was excellent. Like, even the legion is judging her for the cousin stuff.
Like, I just love that. That seems to be this wasteland theme of, like, there's a lot of weird. Like, there's a chicken over here, but incest. That's where we're gonna draw the line. Like, I just thought that was so funny.
That's so hard. No, and I like, it is. It is hysterical to me that there's that. That judgment about that. I have a question for you.
And this could just be because I don't play the video games or I'm not quite familiar with the lore of the world. Why do they kill the woman? Why do they kill the tunic? The tunic lady, I like, I'm not entirely sure. I have not played Fallout New Vegas.
I haven't had a lot to do with Caesar's Legion in the games, but I know that they're like. They're slavers, and she. Like, it could be that she compromised their position, something of that nature. Yeah. Because I'm trying to figure out.
Oh, no, no, no. I remember why. And they say it in the show. It's because she got her. Whatever.
Like, the dude that was with her killed. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Because I'm just like, okay. Because she came back, so it's not like she was running away from this.
The. This group.
So the ghoul got her back to. Okay. Anyway, so Makai Golkin's all like, hey, we're negotiating the rights to your prima noctis, and I'm just assuming it's who gets to her, right? Essentially. Yeah.
Your first night, and it's a medieval ritual type thing where the.
And I. Technically, it would be like, the leader of wherever the hell you are. Right. Gets to you before whoever ultimately gets you. I love that she's like, as much as I want to respect your traditions. No, Lucy, certain traditions we don't need to respect.
Like, and even she says there's a line to all of that, but I'm like, lucy, like, no, there are certain traditions we can say off, too. Yes. And then she's like, like, I'm not even a virgin. And it makes me wonder, like, is she talking. Is her first time with her husband?
Because obviously they don't have sex with the cousins. There's cousin stuff. But that's not actual intercourse. Right. Am I remembering?
Unless they use protection. I guess that's true. Like, I guarantee you they have prophylactics. Oh, for. Sure, sure.
But, like, I don't. I don't know if, like, if she did, like, how far she went with Chet before she had that night. I don't think. I don't think she went because it says. And that's not including all of the cousin stuff I did, which is at least a page or two on my resume.
Right. Which I just, like, can we just talk about how hysterically funny that line is? Like, gold star to whoever wrote that line. Well, and the fact that she's so proud of it. Like, I'm just like, lucy.
Oh, Lucy. Like, anyway. But I do love that she's like you. Yeah. Claiming her agency and is like, you know, like, I'm not a virgin.
This is my body. Like, whatever. You guys and your traditions. Right. And I love that for her.
I love it for her, too. And so we kind of get a little bit of world building, I guess. It's interesting this whole episode's theme seems to be about war, but a lot of civil war. So they discuss that, you know, the legion is at war with the new California Republic, the cons, the brotherhood, and that they have to conquer the members of Caesar's legion. But over there, there are two, apparently, legions and two kind of like, fighting over who is actually inheriting Caesar, Caesar, and this land, which I think is.
I think is very thematic, like, inheritance and responsibility and stuff like that. Legacy. And legacy. Yep. That's a good one.
And, like, followers, like, who do they follow? I think this is very mirrored in the Brotherhood and what's going on with them. And I just love Lucy so much. Like, hey, I can help you. Like, sometimes conflict resolution is easier than you think, you know?
Like, and then it's like, nope, nope. We're gonna put you on a cross so you can correct me if I'm wrong. I thought that they legitly actually crucified people. Like, I thought that it was gonna. Like, I thought that they raped.
They crucified. Like, I thought it was gonna be bad. And I'm not saying what happened to Lucy wasn't bad, but it almost felt like she's not as bad as I was expecting it to be. I agree. I agree.
Like after season one, everyone was talking about, oh, the Legion. That's. That's like, pretty messed up, pretty bad. Like, very, you know, medieval Roman traditions. And I just felt like, okay, hanging her up on a cross, not even nailing her up on a cross.
Like, to me, it felt like the stakes weren't as high as it could. Right. Not to say that I needed it to be super dramatic, but why do. Like, why do that to Lucy and not slit her throat? Like, that's what I'm kind of confused about.
Or like, why not wound her in some way while she's on the cross so she's like, slowly and painfully bleeding out. Right. Or even options. Why not have sex with her? Right.
Why not sell her as a. Like, she. To me and the way that it was presented to me, she has all of her teeth. She's a very pretty looking girl. And, you know, she's well read and educated.
She would be like the perfect person that you would sell as a slave to somebody. And this is why Cooper does it in season one, because she has a lot of parts. Why are they taking someone like her when they could use her for something and then just sticking her up on the cross? Like, and I guess waiting for her to die that way. It just.
To me, that doesn't. That doesn't make sense. And I. I do get it, you know, like, we're not trying to, like, have super, super high stakes right now. I think everyone kind of knew at the end of season two or episode two that Cooper was going to go save her, and so we kind of needed to wrap it up. But to me, it took away a lot of those stakes about who the Legion is and how dangerous they are because it felt like they didn't do.
There was no real threat to Lucy. And I think I, as a writer, I kind of had an issue with that, you know. Absolutely. So.
And then I. I thought that it was a very interesting. Because, you know, she talks about if everyone thinks you're the bad guy or, you know, chances are you are. But Macai Culkin's just like, well, good is not a meaningful vector in history, only strength. And I think not only that, it's who gets to decide who's. What Good is defined as, like, what does good even mean to certain people?
I always. Usually it's the victors who get to decide that 100. And it's interesting because I always have this debate with people about, like, the Walking Dead and because I'm like a huge negan Girly for obvious reasons, but it's sort of like my biggest argument about Negan versus Rick. To me, it's like they're the same person. They're both heroes of their own story.
And so the only reason we empathize and we want Rick to win is because that is the person who we've been following for, you know, four or five seasons. We haven't been following Negan. We don't really know, like, what he's had to deal with a leader, but he's clearly kept his, you know, group, you know, safe. So when you have Lucy, who, again, can be very judgmental for. For obvious reasons and for good reasons, it's sort of like, again, that morality that she was raised with, you can't really apply it to the wasteland, you know?
Yep. I agree. And it's like this. Is this the wall she keeps coming up against here? Yeah.
Constantly attempting to apply the morality that she was raised with to a place where it doesn't belong. Yeah, exactly. Like, she's trying to get everyone else to conform to her worldview instead of stepping back and realizing, I don't agree with this, but I understand why this particular worldview is, you know, applied here or here or here.
So, anyway, so we. We get over to the Ghoul, and he's talking about poor Cooper. He's just, like, in so much pain. And, like, I just love Goggin's reactions because it feels so genuine and authentic. Not like some dude gets some poison in him and he's like.
You know, like. It's like. He's like, oh, like, you can feel the pain. Like, I'm just. Yeah.
I would be saying all of this, like, when he's. What did he say? He said something like, off, sweetheart to the radroach I died. I was like, yes. So, you know, like, he's talking about.
How about a boat that's not a boat? You know what I mean? Of course you do. You take out one plank, boat's the same as it ever was. It's just got a hole in it.
That's all. You take out a lot of planks, and all of a sudden, you got yourself.
What the am I even looking at? That ain't no boat. It's just a pile of wood, man. It's just a pile of wood. What do you think he means by this?
Like, why do we have this dialogue here? What is Cooper trying to say? What do you think? He's. He's talking about himself and, like, becoming more and more and more ghoul.
Yeah. And like, you know, like, literally, as he's cutting this poisoned flesh out of his leg from the rad scorpion and that's. The hole in the boat is very literal in that moment. Oh, yeah. I think he's considering his own goal.
Eventual mortality, maybe. And, you know, like, no, go ahead. Waiting himself with the eventual, like, pile of wood is where he feels like he's gonna end up is what I'm getting out of it. Do you think it has anything to do with what Lucy told him about. You're gonna sit here and think about the consequences of your actions?
Like, because if you think about whole conversation leading up to the hospital was, why are you like this? You have a family. Are they going to be proud of who you've become? And it's so. It felt like to me, when he's talking about the boats, that he's like, you start removing bits of yourself or you start having to do certain things to survive.
You can still tell yourself you're still a human, you still have your humanity. But at the end of the day, when. When you've crossed this line of what's acceptable and what isn't, when you completely throw out your morality, what are you even looking at? Are you even human at this point? You know, and like you said, that change from Hollywood silver screen actor all the way to, you know, ghoul his.
He's a monster, quote, unquote, on the outside, and it's finally reflecting on the inside. Like, I don't know if that's just me being too shipper e like that Lucy is making him think of things like this. But I also think that based on what the actors have said in terms of we need to figure out, like, Cooper needs to get his humanity back. And so I'm curious, like, if. If he's actually, as he's cutting, like, gouging out a part of his thigh, like, if he's genuinely doing what Lucy said and thinking about.
I think he absolutely is. Yeah. The way the rest of the episode and, you know. Yeah. Goes.
That's absolutely it. And can we just talk about how poignant and that moment was when he's talking to dog meat after this moment and, like, I. I had literal tears in my eyes. Like, that moment was so beautiful. And it, like, just makes your chest ache in that very special way. Yeah.
Well, and because you can feel his pain. And it's not just the physical pain poison, you know, because he. He says, like, I don't know what I'm telling you all this for. I know you already know this. It's just been a while since I had someone worth talking to, and I love so much that it's dog meat.
He feels like dog meat is worth talking, too. I just. What's interesting is if. Is he really thinking about dog meat or is he equating this to Lucy and now that Lucy's gone. Because the flashback that happens right after this is him and Barbara.
And since we know that he sees Lucy as a version of himself, but also as a version of Barb, I'm curious, like, if, you know, he's so annoyed by Lucy and her talking about Charles Dickens and morality and all of that, but now that she's gone, you know, he literally is talking to Dogmeat about some kind of morality that I am positive he's not talking to Lucy about. But now that he doesn't have her to talk to, it almost feels like he. He has to. It's almost like without Lucy, he has to tell himself this in order to hang on to that tiny sliver of humanity he has left. Whereas when Lucy's there, yap, yap, yap, yap, yapping about it, he doesn't necessarily need to get this vulnerable because she's.
She's already telling him the things that he already knows. I don't know. Does that make sense? Do you get what I'm trying to. It does make sense.
And, like. And it does show, like, how much work she's doing. Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. So then we have.
And this kind of. This scene kind of got me, like, it did, like, again, it did kind of get me, like, where, you know, she's trying to get the stuffed animal in the keepsake box for the vault. And that got me in my feels about Barb and that. Like, I have to applaud the writers because that's really as. As much as I disliked her from season one, that was really hard to do.
Well, because we've. I think we've all been there. Like, when we're packing up something for our kid, we don't want to leave anything behind. You know, like, we want to make sure they have their special toy, especially in a situation like this. And the kind of packer I am, which my husband complains about 24 7, anytime we go on a trip, like we just did to Michigan, I am an absolute overpacker.
And, like, I get where Barb's coming from right here because I'm very much a just in case. What if we need it? What if, like, that kind of person. So, like, my Suitcase is physically bigger than me. Like, it's massive.
And I just think I, It. I think it was really interesting because Cooper basically comes back with, well, we may not have to. Right. Like, we may not have to leave anything behind. But Barb doesn't respond.
And I feel like when Cooper sees that Barb doesn't respond, he pulls away because now he's like, I've got to go do this thing for Charlie. Which is interesting because Cooper from season one before he realized what Barb is planning to do, he would have stayed, he would have comforted her, he would have hugged her, he would have done, you know, he would have been soft boy Cooper Howard. And I feel like you're already starting to see how he's looking at her differently and how the relationship has shifted based on what he overheard. And again, like, it's funny because I was watching this again with my husband yesterday and he was like, I really hope. I really hope they don't make her some kind of victim in this or they try to make it seem like, you know, like, I think that this scene right here is perfect because she still tied to her.
Her decisions. I don't want her to have the little thing on the back of her neck. I don't want her to be in a position where she was forced to make this decision. I don't want Barb to be the victim. I want.
I like Barb as a bad with agency who made this choice for a reason because she thinks she's doing the right thing. And that's the thing in this show. Every single character believes that they are doing the right thing or the best thing for themselves. Yeah. And people that they care about.
Absolutely. And so that's why I just. I don't want it to turn. I. This is going to be like, really terrible.
I mean, I don't want Cooper to get a happily ever after with Barb. I don't want him to. And it's not even because I don't like it. It's. I don't think Barb has earned that.
And I don't think it would. I think that it would disrespect the entire journey that Cooper is going on. Yes, it would. At the bottom, at the heart of it, it would just be disingenuous. Yes, I agree.
Like, I like. Yeah, okay. So. So anyway, so we move on from that scene and we see Cooper talking to Charlie about, you know, Robert House and Charlie's saying, you know, all I heard is that he's building some kind of weapon system. In Vegas.
Or intel thinks it's connected to what you heard Barb talking about. So there is already an assumption that Robert House is building these weapons, possibly selling them to Vault TEC in order to cause the destruction of the world.
So what's interesting is that we're only getting one side of Robert House. And if you're a writer. If I'm a writer. I mean, I am a writer. You're a writer.
But, like, what if Robert House is not the bad guy? Do you get what I'm saying? Like, we're supposed to believe that he is, but, like, what if he's not? Like, what if he's. He has all of these weapons and he wants to save the world?
Right. Or, like, because I just think as a narrative device, like, it's like in a mystery. Everyone's assuming these terrible things about Robert House, but we don't actually have any evidence. We're just just listening to it through third party, which is obviously unreliable narrators, possibly. You know, and so it's just.
It would be very interesting if there was a twist of, like, no, Robert House is actually a good guy or something like that. You know, I would love that. And I think it would give him a lot more dimension. Yeah, well, because remember, we're getting this information from Moldaver, and she has her own reasons for wanting all of this information. You know, like.
And that's what I like about the show, is that everyone's hands are. Are dirty, and everyone is do. Like you said. Like, everyone has their own reasons for doing stuff, and it's not, like, good. And I think that's why we see Lucy trying so desperately to fight for her own morals, because nobody else really has them.
It's all based on how it can benefit them, whether we automatically think that it's a good versus evil. So, like, Vault, Tec versus Moldaver. They're both bad. Like, they're. They're none of us.
Like, in my opinion, it's just. It's not. They're not good. Neither of them are good. It's like, what's the lesser of two evils?
So anyway, so I just. You know, like, there's this conversation with Cooper and Charlie, and Cooper's basically like, do you know what your boss wants me to do to him? And there's kind of a look, and that goes between them. And Charlie's like, well, I didn't know. And he's like, look, I'll help you.
I'll do whatever you can, but there's got to be another way which is the looseiest thing Cooper Howard has ever said. 100. And I think this is why he's having these flashbacks right now. For obvious reasons. But Charlie's like, half the guys in here have killed people.
Maybe not the right ones. Robert House is just one person. And it's so interesting to me because it's sort of like we can justify murder. And that's the thing that's interesting. And that goes back to that golden rule or morality or whatever is.
You know what it reminds me of? Yeah. Shirley Jackson's the Lottery. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
That's a. Oh, that's haunting.
But it's. It's just fascinating to me because it's sort of like you go to war and you. Your orders are to kill the opposition. Even though you're probably the same person. You know, you're just.
You just have different views of the same kind of coin. And I just. It's just interesting where it's sort of like it's okay to kill this person because of this reason. And it's. I don't know.
And so it's like, even though the waste. We have a completely different morality. Even before the wasteland existed. You have that same morality. Even then where it's okay to kill this guy.
He's just one person for the greater good. Yeah. So then we. Very morally ambiguous. Which I love.
Yes, exactly. And it kind of puts you in a position of like, who do you support? Like, what would you do in this position? And then. So we get whoever the actress is playing this congresswoman, like, she was perfect.
Like, her. Her timing. Like, it was just. I felt her. Like, she clearly did not want to be there.
But she's trying to safe. Like she's trying to get out there and do what she's. I thought it was the funniest thing. And then they're like, get on with it.
So obviously they're there to honor different vets. And Cooper is just decides, well, now is the perfect time for me to go to the bathroom.
And then we see who we're assuming is Robert House. I still don't know if. If. If Justin Thoreau is Robert House or if the guy from episode one at the round table that says House is Robert House.
So I don't. I just. I just think who the real Robert House is. It'll be interesting. But Cooper's literally taking a piss.
And he starts talking to him like they're friends. Like, that is the weirdest, weirdest thing I have seen. But it fits. We better not be having bathroom Stall chat. Unless I have known you for, like, my literal entire life since I was born.
Otherwise, just let me pee in peace, and we can talk when we are not in the bathroom. This is just common courtesy. Yeah, it's common sense. And, you know, like, the. I just love.
I love Cooper's. Cooper's line, you know, about, like, well, I take it you're not a vet. And he's like, what gave me away? And Cooper's like. Because Yvette would know better than to talk politics when a man has his dick in his hand.
Which I just thought, like, the way that Goggins delivers that line, I just. It was just perfect. Like, so it's interesting because obviously we have this conversation. They talk about, you know, the pinko point of view, the communist point of view. And it's.
It's interesting because it's like the. They're saying the communists have grievances with traditional institutions, and it's entirely justified. And Cooper's like, I'm not having this conversation. I didn't ask you. And Robert is basically saying, you back a body into a corner and they're liable to try anything, but you back billions of bodies into a corner at the same time.
Tisk. Everyone trying to solve the same problem at the same time with a multitude of solutions. Messy. Messy. If that doesn't.
If he's not directly talking about essentially, the whole vault, tec war, all of that stuff, like, Robert House is a lot smarter than. If this, you know, like, than people are giving him credit for. And makes me curious. Why do you think he's targeting Cooper? Do you think that he knows that Cooper knows or that Cooper's talking to Moldaver or.
Why do you think he's specifically talking to Cooper about this? I think that he knows that Cooper knows things. Like, I don't know how he knows Cooper knows things, but I think he is intimately aware that Cooper knows things. And, like, from the clips we've seen. Yeah.
He has that whole moment somewhere later in the season about, like, how, like, information is his business. Right. Basically. And so I absolutely believe that he knows what Cooper's up to. Yeah.
I think it's part of his job to know these things, too. And I can't get over the fact that the band reminds me so much of Walt Disney. It's weird.
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I don't. I don't. I, I, I completely agree with you.
So Cooper leaves, and then we go back to the Brotherhood, and, you know, the Yosemite elder is talking about the Clear Chain of command from the Codex. And Quintus is like, look, we can't squander this opportunity. You know, the fact that, you know, this guy's here from the Commonwealth, it complicates things. But then he goes into, like, almost like this backstory of the rebellion or of how, like, the brotherhood, you know, happened. Yeah.
Came to be. And, you know, does he serve his God or his government? He chose his God. He killed the scientists. He shot the people who tried to stop him.
His government had defied God, so he defied his government, but he wasn't punished. He was saved so that he could find, you know, this noble order, blah, blah, blah. If our rebellion is righteous, the way will be paved for us. And that's interesting, because that is very, very Biblical. Like, if, you know, if you look a lot of Old Testament wars with Israel, if God, you know, wants you to sort of, basically, victory goes to God.
God decides, you know, if. If Israel is winning or if Israel must be punished because of, you know, whatever, you know, in the Bible that they have done to not follow the covenant that they have with God or whatever. And I thought that was really interesting because it clearly moves Max. Like, we see. We see Max go and say, hey, listen, I could.
I could just kill him, you know, And Quintus, like, super judges him, like, gives him a face. And Max is like, wait, but that's what we do here. And it really pissed me off because Quintus, like, is now insulting Max. Like, you know, behold the dimness of the sword that made me so mad on Max's behalf, like, you, first of all. Well, and part of me is like, max, you gotta stand up for yourself.
Like, you can't let this guy talk to you. And so he's basically saying, if we kill Xander, the envoy from the Commonwealth, like, it'll be war. And without the support of the other chapters, who basically just said, you, you know, like, we're all going to die. But then Max comes back with his own words, like, well, if our cause is righteous, like, if we're supposed to have God on our side, then it shouldn't matter. And that's like.
At least biblically, that's what the Bible says. Like, the armies were much more powerful, and Israel, like, when God is with them, overcomes them. And that's just Max's point of view. But then we see, like, I have no thoughts for. Or I have no need for the thoughts of the sword.
And that's, again, Quintus is completely taking advantage of Max and his beliefs. Because Max is just reciting what Quintus literally just said, and now that it's being thrown back at him, he's. He know. Because he knows. It's.
He knows that he's completely using this for what he specifically wants. And, like, I hate. I hate how condescending he was to Max. And part of me was pissed off at Max. I'm like, you don't have to take this.
You're the one who killed Moldaver. Like, you are the golden kid. Like, you are the representative of, you know, the. The brotherhood right now in terms of the warrior. And so I think that's why he really gravitates to Xander.
Absolutely. What's your opinion of Xander? Like, I like him. I'm not gonna lie. I liked him.
I liked him, too. He was. He was funny. He was witty. Like, I. I liked him right up until the point, you know, I'm thinking about in episode four, and then I was like, oh, no, no, let me rescind my statement.
My husband hated him from, like, he's just like, no, this guy's annoying. I don't like this guy. Same thing. I don't understand. Like, maybe it's because, like, I just fell for the charm or whatever.
Like, I'm just like, my husband, like, knew, like, without going into it, because we will talk about it, but, you know, when they go to the building before my husband knew exactly what building it was, he's like, oh, that's the building where this happened. I'm like. I'm like, how the did you know that? I sure as didn't know that. And so I'm just like.
I don't know if it's, like, a dude thing, but, yeah, my husband didn't like them, but what's interesting, at least. And I don't know if this is. If he's. If he's manipulating Max, if part of him genuinely likes Max. I honestly think it's a little bit of both.
But he said, I think it's a little bit of both. But I read it as heavy on the manipulation, for sure. I think that. I think that, like, he's basically telling Max, look, we're the ones who bleed. We're the ones who decide things with our fighting.
We should be the ones who get to make the decision of whether we go to war or not. And your cleric is going to make a mistake. You know, And I. I really as much. Like, again, I fell for the charm because I was like, he makes really good points. He's pushing on all of Max's.
Pain points. And to me, like, that just shows that Max is very easy to read, which also makes him easily to manipulate. Yeah, we see that with Quintus calling him my son. We see that right here with Harkness. And it's interesting because now Xander's talking about.
If you ask me, fomenting a rebellion sounds a lot like chaos. I feel like the theme of chaos is in every single story. Like, whether it's the vultis and norm releasing them, and now a bunch of different civil wars. Like, it is chaos, and it's sort of like. It's almost like, what morality can we live with within this chaos if it's so.
If every chaos is so different.
But I love Max. He's just like, well, what the hell do you want me to do about it? Like, okay, that's great, but what do I do? You know? And Xander's like, just talk to me.
You know, this isn't the first time that we've been on the verge of a civil war, but if us Soldiers figure something out, then we could have cooler heads prevailing. And Max is like, yeah, okay, let's talk.
So I think it was very much manipulation. And, like, maybe he does like Max a little bit, but I think it was all manipulative in order to get the information that he wants. Yeah. And to get Max in his pocket so he can sway the outcome of how this is going to go with this little insurrection. Yeah.
So, yeah. And then we go back to the ghoul, and he has his little spyglass, his little telescope, and he. He's looking at her, and he says, well, Ms. Lucy, how's that golden rule working out for you now? So what do you think he meant by that, Chelsea? What do you think that line is for?
I think that's a. You wouldn't be in this situation right now that you're in if you would have given me the stim pack instead of the tunic. A hundred percent. And also, you just. You saved this woman's life, and look at where that got you.
Right. Like, so. Real productive. Right? And so we see.
Okay. Cooper notices also that there is a civil war going between the Legion. And he's again, still talking to dog meat. What do you think, Dog? Okay, I love this.
And I want your interpretation. He says, what? Don't look at me like that. I don't like her either, but we're going to need her down the line. So what do you think he means by that?
Like, it. I don't know. It almost came across like you're protesting too much about liking her or not. Like, it absolutely. Read that way to me.
Like, me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Yeah. Like, and when he says we're gonna need her down the line, I think he's convincing himself that he's gonna need her down the line as a way to justify rescuing her instead of going after Hank himself right now. It's an excuse. It's an ex.
Like, he needs to say it. It's like, I do this all the time. Like, I need to tell myself things out loud to make me okay with making a decision. Like, he needs to talk it through himself. He needs to say, I don't like her.
Because he needs to hear that he doesn't like her, and he needs to give himself a reason to go save her.
I will be using this device myself in one of the later hockey books. Yes. But, yeah, ex. Like, we just need that. And it's interesting.
Like, okay. He's like, I ain't going up against two legions in one afternoon. We need some help. And this is about the best place to get it. Or it used to be, anyway.
Okay, I know this seems like such a subtle thing, but I feel like Cooper asking people for help as the ghoul it to me. Like, I feel like that's a big deal. It's a huge deal. Yeah.
Okay, so this whole conversation with Victor, Chelsea, explain the world building here, is he going to. Who? Who is this? Is this the NCR that he goes to? This building that's completely empty?
Victor is. I'm not sure, like, because I've only played Fallout 4. Yeah. And, like, the through line I played had nothing to do with that. So I honestly, on the world building there, I'm not entirely certain, like, who Victor is.
I feel like it's a personality that he knows either from his time in New Vegas, or it's, like, similar. Like the personality was based on somebody he knew. Yeah, like the. The guy who was the voice of Codsworth. Yes.
For the Mr. Handy boss. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Well, he says, I gotta save a vaulty from the legion, which I thought was so funny.
And then he says, I came here hoping to get some help from the ncr. So I'm assuming, like, maybe this was a place where the NCR was. But then Victor comes back saying, the ncr. I ain't seen him. So I don't know.
Like, I don't know if this is a place to get to the NCR or if this was a place the NCR was. But the ghoul says, you know who's running these parts these days? And he says, well, you know how it is around here. The NCR and the Legion are going at each other like cats and dogs. So now we got the Legion fighting the Legion like cats and dogs, too, and.
But you know what they say in Vegas. Everyone's a winner eventually. And the ghouls that breathe. Very new Vegas time to me. Yeah, there.
And the ghoul says, the same goes for losing in my experience. Except for one man. The man that built you. Where is Robert House? And Victor says, he's gone.
He had all the money in the world, but all he really wanted was to live forever. Life just ain't fair, I guess.
So he says, well, typically, I would agree, but you should know better than anyone that House had a knack for planning ahead. And Victor said, oh, he had plans, all right, but he needed the cold fusion doodad from before the war. Didn't you have something to do with all that way back when? What is he referring to here is, I think, alluding to maybe Cooper finds a way to stop Barb from giving House the cold fusion thing that Moldaver created. Okay, but I don't know, like, how exactly that's going to play out yet.
And if I'm right or not, well into your point, the fact that Victor would even allude to that has to say that he knows who Cooper was before the war. Yes. So. And nobody, as long, as far as I know, nobody knows who Cooper was before the war. So this had to be.
And it. It clearly, he. Robert House built this guy. So whether that means he just means the machine and he put a brain in it. Kind of like Bud Askins or what?
I don't know. Right. So.
So basically, Victor's like, okay, are you leaving? Ain't nobody around here to keep poor Victor company these days. Just them rangers up the hill. So, rangers in the hills. The ghoul stops, obviously.
And Victor says, well, you know how it is. The NCR and the Legion, they can't stop fighting like cats and dogs. So the Rangers, I'm assuming, are part of the ncr. Right, That's. That's what I mean.
Okay, so after that, we go back to Xander and Max, and, you know, again, it's that fun. It's that manipulation.
You know, he. They're just hanging out, being some dudes, you know, like. And again, you have that. I like Xander. He seems like a chill dude Max likes.
I think Max is also very much like Lucy in that, you know, he. He's very cautious with people at first, but if they can easily manipulate him, he does want to trust people to do the right thing, too, you know, so. So, yeah, so, you know, they are just hanging out. And I love Xander saying, like, hey, Maximus, can we just be hard dick for a second? I was like, what the.
Like that? Even me? Yeah. Like, do guys talk to each other like that? Can we just be hard dick?
Like, what does that mean? I need a translator. I'm sorry. That's. No idea.
Yeah, I was just like, okay, so, you know, Xander then goes into, like, unless Quintus gives me that relic, we're going to war. And you're pretty good, but I'm pretty good, too. And if I just go with. If I go home with the relic, we don't have to have this war. And so he's insinuating that if the Commonwealth falls, there's not going to be much civilization, which is interesting, because I feel.
I feel like Quintus basically said that for the Brotherhood, too. Like, each civilization thinks that if they fall, then the rest of civilization is just going to completely die out. And I don't think that that's true. I think that civilization will continue, you know, to happen, you know? Absolutely.
So, you know, Xander's basically saying it could get worse out here. And then the. The machine starts going crazy, and they pick up power signatures in a complex nearby. Unauthorized automated activity.
And again, Max is like. Like, why do you care? You're 2,000 miles away from your own home. And then Xander says, we're the Brotherhood of Steel. We keep the wasteland safe.
That's what we do. And again, it's like, you can't pick and choose when you're the Brotherhood of Steel and when you want power for yourself or when you want to do things your own. I just thought it was a really interesting sort of, like, when do you wear the badge and when do you take it off kind of thing, you know? Yeah. Okay.
So. So they go. And then we get back. We go back over to the Ghoul, and we see him with the ncr, and I loved the ncr. I think they were kind of weird, but everyone's weird in the wasteland.
And I just. It's clear that Rodriguez knows the ghoul. Like, they have had dealings with each other in the past. You probably positive ones, you know, if they. If Cooper feels comfortable going over and talking to them, you know, but so we have.
They're talking about, you know, this school and the NCR go way back. And, you know, Cooper starts laughing. Poor Biff. He thinks that there's gonna be a war any day now.
Oh, my gosh. When Cooper's all like, you guys might want to drop the new because y' all looking dusty as hell. I died. I'm not gonna lie.
I was like, that's interesting coming from you, Coop. Like, right? I just. I just thought that was really funny. So then it's.
They say, okay, well, it's just us. We've been cut off from reinforcements for more than a decade. Guess time takes a toll on some more than others.
And then when Shady Sands fell, we had a battalion out east. We could still get to them. And then the ghoul points out, that was over 20 years ago. But Rodriguez says, the legion has us boxed in. We lost touch.
She basically wants his help to contact them and to let them know that they're still out there. And the ghoul's like, look, I came to the NCR looking for help because, again, it's that humanity of the good guys are going to win. That is just what he assumed.
And, you know, she's insisting we are winning. And Cooper's like, if this is winning, I don't even want to see what losing looks like. And it's interesting because then Rodriguez says, you know, please, the stuff we fight for. Clean water, so schools, rights for folks like you, you know, ghouls. Story has it you used to believe in those things, too.
And again, how does she know? Like, do people know who Cooper is? Or is she just making an assumption? But clearly the NCR and Cooper have a history, so how much of this is, like, passed down? And what kind of history is it?
So Cooper's just like, nobody's coming. There's nobody left. You know, when something's dead, it usually is because it deserves to die. And that's it. You know, that's a perfect setup to make us think one thing, and then he does another and makes me proud.
And I'm. I had to watch it twice before I understood what happened. I'm not gonna lie. And once I did, I was like, okay, because I was. I was kind of worried.
I'm not gonna lie. But then we go back to Xander and Max, and they're just doing some dude in the complex. Like, they're things up.
I love that. It's like a massage robot mixed with a security guard robot. Like, it was the funniest thing.
And, yeah, so, like, they fight that, and it's like they're bro bonding. You Know, like, again, we get the bro bonding, and that's basically it. And then we go over to Lucy, and, you know, her face is red, her lips are chopped. She's clearly been up there for a few hours.
But when she sees the ghoul, I thought for a second that she was imagining him. I did, too. I thought she was hallucinating. Yeah, I thought that she was hallucinating. And that again, it would have been one of those lessons of, like, oh, he's not coming to save me because I up kind of thing.
But then we see the ghoul, and he's like, my. I'm curious again. Why do they just let the ghoul in? Like, why do they take him all the way in? Like, right.
I mean, maybe he has information. Sure. But why would they trust him? So the ghoul's, like, always, or whatever the y' all say to each other, you know? And then Makai Culkin's like, okay, well, you claim to have information for Kaiser.
I love. I love that both Lucy and the ghoul, like, are little shits and point out how stupid they are by not pronouncing it Caesar. Right? Love that, too. Like, that was some solid couple solidarity telepathy moment.
Oh, yeah. Like, yeah. And then Chelsea, oh, my gosh. When he was like, I give you something you want, and you give me something I want. Like, the way he said the, like, that line, I was like, am I in a dark romance novel?
Like, what is going on here? Like, I was just. My little dark romance girly heart, very happy. I'm not gonna lie. Like, the way he says he want.
Like, he didn't have. Like. Like, come on. I didn't have to say it like that. You didn't have to say it like that.
Like, he did not have to. If he. If he doesn't like Lucy, you know, like, he told dog meat and is just using her, he could have just said, I have information and I want the girl back. Or so. He does not have to say it like that.
He does not have to say it like that. That. But that's just me wearing my shipper goggles. But it's the way that he delivered. It was too much.
It was too much. Like, that is not. It was possessive. Let me just. Anyway, yes.
And it was deliciously possessive. I'm not gonna lie. Yes. And then Makai Cohen's like, okay, we could just put you up on a cross. And the ghoul's like, well, you could do that, or you could exterminate the last holdout of the New California Republic.
And I genuinely thought he was going to turn over, you know, the two. I did for like two seconds. I did. Yeah. I didn't.
I thought that he genuinely was going to do it. So then we have Charles and you know, he's going to this really nice speech about Cooper and it's again, it's that manipulation. I think Charlie right here is manipulating Cooper. Absolutely. Because.
Yeah. And, and he's saying like, you know, like, we like to tell about stories that we did out there, but not all of them. Some of them we can't tell. But the ones we do tell, we tell them to make us feel good about what we did, to give us hope when it was all for the right reasons. But we're just Marines.
We don't get the privilege of knowing. We just had to go off what they told us. They, you know, they told us that it was all on the line. Fate of the whole free world. With the stakes stacked that high, we didn't get much choice.
And I guarantee you the guys on the other side got told the same shit. And then it says, at the end of the day, we just got to hope that we bet on the right side, the side that protects the people that you love. Because if it did, I guess that's worth doing pretty much anything, even something bad. He specifically says that because he's trying to get Howard to go and kill Robert House. And I thought that was really fucked up of him because it's like Cooper Howard.
It was. Yeah. Before the bombs even drop. Cooper Howard is still trying desperately to do the right thing. And he wants to, you know, he wants to think that his wife is doing the right thing.
He wants to believe in her. He want. But he knows that it's not the truth and he wants to do the right thing, you know, for Janie and for all of these people. And I just like. But what was so interesting is during that speech, it cuts to current day Cooper Howard rescuing Lucy.
Rescuing Lucy. And so Chelsea, tell me your interpretation of, of that speech with the ghouls rescue of Lucy and like how do you think, what do you think's going through Cooper's head right now? I think the speech, like Charlie's speech as a whole, a is completely a psychological operation. Yeah. On Cooper to get him to do what he wants him to do.
But hearing that speech in this context is supposed to make us believe that he's actually going to turn over those NCR guys. Yeah. And give. Give the Legion their location for Real and not do something about it to prevent them from going after the Legion. That's what the intention is there for, is to lead us in that direction.
Well, and also too like that. Again, Cooper is in that same position of I have to do something bad for the right reasons and so I have to give up these two people because I am betting on Lucy. And that is essentially his choice. He had that choice. But Cooper, I love that he's smart enough to find a way not to over the NCR people.
So do you think that he tells them where the NCR people are, but he just causes the explosions or what do you, like, how do you think that kind of happened? I don't know that whether he gave them the actual location or not or gave them a false location. Yeah. But I think if he did give them the actual location, he is counting on the Legion to wipe each other out before they go after the ncr. Well, because my thing is, and I think he trusts those two that are left of the NCR to be able to handle themselves with whatever does come from the Legion once they're done tearing each other apart.
And if anyone is left at all. Well, I think that, Yeah, I agree with that. But my thing is, like, why would the Legion just automatically believe him? Like, what did he have to do to prove himself? Because some random ghoul who wants some smooth skin, like, I just, I don't.
Reputation as a bounty hunter, maybe. Maybe. Actually, I would believe that if they put it more on the page for that. If they were like, oh, I've heard about you. You have a reputation.
Like, if that was what happened, I would believe that and I would be fine with that. It just felt so weird. Yeah. That was something that I made in my head. Yeah.
It felt too easy. But I also liked, okay, so for the speech, like, to me, you know, obviously we see the lighter, we see the explosion. And I, I, I loved the part because he, he helps her up, but he doesn't carry her out. And I think that that's giving her that autonomy, but also that dignity of she's gonna walk out of that compound. She doesn't need his help.
She's going to get that dignity to walk out. Even though. Yeah. And we see Lucy eat a little bit of the humble pie by saying, you know, thank you. And I think it kind of shocked the ghoul that like, she, like, he kind of.
Yeah. Like he kind of stops and looks at her and he's like, well, don't thank me yet, you know, and then it kind of flashes back to Charlie, and he's like, this is for you. He hands him the lighter, and he's like, they gave that to me for saving a man, not for killing the three it took to do it. And again, you get that insinuation of he sacrificed the two NCR people for Lucy. Right.
Then you have the ghoul say, maybe this was a mistake. Why do you think he says that? Why do you think he doubts himself? Because that sounded genuine, like he's questioning his decisions. Why do you think?
I think. I think possibly the reason that he said that is because it's an attack of conscience, and he really did give the Legion people the location of the NCR people. Yeah. And it's. It's a fit of conscience.
Consciousness. Conscience. Thank you, Tongue. And that. He's like.
He's worried that not enough of the opposing factions of the Legion are going to kill each other off before they go after those NCR Rangers in the hills. Yeah, that's the way I read it. And then Lucy's like, well, why? What did you do? And G. The ghoul says, I don't know.
Maybe something good or maybe something stupid. And. And to me, that was like, did I bet on the right person? And that's. And that.
That whole.
That whole mentality of the doubt, the hesitation, to me, that is proof enough that he does not just see Lucy as an ends to a means, because if that. Or means to an ends, because if that were the case, then he would sacrifice the NCR for his family without any guilt, because he's doing it for the family, the same way Hank thinks that he's doing everything that he can for his family. So, like, I feel like him doubting whether saving Lucy was the right thing or not, to me, that says that, no, this is deeper than just, I need her to get to Hank or I need her to find my family or. Because if. If those are his intentions and those are his motivations, those are two very strong motivations where you are willing to sacrifice what you need for your family to get to your family.
And so when he hesitates like that, to me, it's. It's sort of like this flicker of vulnerability of, oh, shit, I don't know if I made that right decision at the end, like, entire. And I feel like he's picking Lucy not necessarily because she's a tool, but because he is good and that he. She does represent all of the things that he used to be, and he does still have hope. Yeah.
And so I. I Feel like. And maybe to a degree, he's keeping Lucy. Like, if you just look, if we, if we take a step back, right. And we're trying not to, like, put our shipper glasses on or whatever. And I know we've already kind of touched on this in previous episodes, but it's like Cooper doesn't actually need Lucy to go after Hank.
He's too good, he's too knowledgeable, he knows the world. Like, he doesn't have to do that. And like, hyper competent. Yeah. And I feel like he would know Hank's pain points to get him to give up either Barb and Jamie's location or, you know, whatever else he wants to get from, from Hank or to find his family or whatever.
I don't think at this point, I don't even think he needed Lucy when they left. You know, like, maybe he thought that he did, but to two to three weeks into this, I don't think he really needs Lucy at this point anymore. And because technically speaking, like, look at how he was able to manipulate the Legion. Look at how he was able to go after the ncr. Like, he, I don't think he needs her.
And I think that at this point, he is taking Lucy on this trip to just understand the truth. I think he needs to tell the truth about what happened and she. And like, he need, he needs her to see it for herself. But I also think that he, he, he chose her. Like, he chose her.
He made a choice. He chose her and essentially he chose her because she's good and she's hope and she's, you know, she has these beliefs that he doesn't necessarily agree with. And that to me is why we see this speech and we see, you know, this hesitation and this doubt of did I make the right choice? Because if, if this was just for his family, it would automatically be the right choice. I would have no problem.
If I'm trying to find my kid in this fucking wasteland, as shitty as it would make me, I would have no problem sacrificing who I needed to sacrifice in order to get my kid back. Back.
And Cooper has always been that way. Like, that is his drive. That is what he's. He's trying to find his family. But now being around Lucy has made him doubt, not necessarily that he wants his family, but is this the right way to do it?
Is this the right thing? And I, I genuinely think, and especially going into episode four, I genuinely think that he cares about her and that it's not just because she's a Tool. And that's not me with the shipper goggles on. It's all of the decisions that he's made. The hesitations or even, like, Charlie's speech was, to me, a huge point for the emotions that he has for Lucy.
And. And you can absolutely argue whether it's romantic or not, but there is a genuine affection for her, a protectiveness for her, even if she pisses him off like nobody's business. And so, yeah, so we kind of. That's kind of what I saw, the speech and the hesitation and. And all of that.
And I do like what you're saying. Like, he thinks that the Legion is just going to destroy itself. And I think to a degree, we kind of see that because. And we don't have to go too far into episode four, but they wake up with the NCR and, you know, like, so. And it seemed like the NCR was leaving, so I think that Cooper did tell the actual location, and.
But he. But he went back to not only get Lucy help, but to warn them. Hey. You know. Yeah.
So anyway, so then we go back to Xander and Max, and it's so cute. Perry is so such a cute little ghoul. And he's like, hey, it's just a baby abomination. Hey, where are your friends? That gave me rage issues on a massive scale.
Like, yeah, I was going ballistic for that whole scene. And it's like he separates, you know, the smooth skins and the. And the other, you know, the ghouls. And, like, my question to you is, because obviously, when we go into episode four, we understand why Max does what he does, but he essentially says he would have killed the ghoul children, and he would have. They.
They would have forced the others to enlist, but they don't take females. So what would have happened to the girls? Do they just abandon them? Like, what does the brotherhood do if he. If they have children who are girls?
Like, what do they do with them? Well, some factions of the brotherhood do allow women. Yeah. But some don't. And I. I don't know if they would have forced.
Like, if Xander's branch of the brotherhood would have, like, forced the girls to enlist as well, or would have abandoned them or. Like, what. Yeah. Situation would be. So, okay, so he splits them up.
And. And I love Max. This is. Again, Max is starting to jump in, and he's like, hey, wait, don't do it. Please stop.
And then Thaddeus, my guy, like, I love you so much. Yes. Remember Thaddeus from season one? He just, like, wants to run away. He's kind of a coward, and he stands up for these kids, you know, Even though he knows the brotherhood, he knows he's putting his life at risk, but, like, he does it anyway.
And, like, I just. I love Thaddeus so much. That was such a heroic moment for him, and I genuinely loved it. Yeah. So much, seeing him stand up for those kids to be like, hey, no.
Yeah. Like, who cares? They're just kids. And Xander's like, no, they're not just kids. They're abominations.
And so are you. And Max is like, no, they are kids. They are like, come on. We don't essentially. We don't kill kids.
And he's begging Xander, like, please stop. And Xander's like, the codex again. The codex is clear on this. And without rules, where are we? And that is so.
Again, it's that civilization concept and theme of, like, what are the rules? Who decides the rules? Like, why can't a male stiff. Yeah. Yes.
And even Maximus is like, the codex. Just listen to me. And Max essentially kills Xander. And it was just. Again, I.
It was the right thing to do. But I feel like Max always, like, gets himself into this. This, like. Right. He always gets himself back into a corner.
Right? And I'm like, damn it, son. Come on, now. And I love it because Thaddeus is like, oh, hey, man. And Max is like, oh, hey.
And Thaddeus is like, oh, what have you been up to? And Max is like, I think I just started a war. And that. He's just like, okay. Yeah, well, I'm the floor manager here, so it sounds like we both got a lot going on right now.
And I died. I, like, died, too. I. It was so funny. I just thought that was the, like, the perfect way to end, you know, the episode.
I loved it because I. I loved going from every single story. It wasn't like, it was dragging in one place. And I was like, get back to Cooper and Lucy. Like, I was happy going everywhere. Yes.
So, overall, thoughts on episode three.
I really enjoyed it. And I'm not gonna lie, like, I cheered when Max killed Xander. Yeah. My husband was very happy about this. Like, he just.
Again, I don't know how my husband picked up on. I don't like this dude. I don't see. I don't know how, like, picked up on that either. Like, I was kind of dazzled by the charm and.
Yeah. Like. Yeah. And, like, oh, look, Max has, like, a dude bro that he can, like, be friends with. Like, I want Max to have dude, like, friends, you know, not just Dane as the conscious.
Like, I want him to have friends. I think Max wants friends, you know? Right. Max deserves friends. Right.
So. Yeah. So that's the way that we ended the episode, Episode three, in my opinion, better than episode four. Like, and then without getting into it, episode four was better than, like, every episode has gotten better. So I'm happy about it.
And we have a lot more to say about episode four, because I thought episode three was, like, full of shippingness. But no, like, episode four is, like, hold my beer, because. Yes. And it was so good. I loved it.
So let me ask you your. Obviously just taking into the first three episodes, do you think that Cooper turns over Lucy to Hank at any point still? Or do you think, like, maybe they make a plan or. I think that we're gonna see a reversal of what we got in episode one. Okay.
And it's gonna be a, like, shoot the rope moment, but Lucy's the one in the vulnerable position in order to trap Hank. Oh, that's interesting. And she'll have to trust the ghoul, because I don't really see her trusting the ghoul. We see a lot of the ghoul trusting Lucy, but we don't see a lot of Lucy trusting the ghoul, because I don't even think she expected the ghoul to rescue her. I think she was more like, I guess I'm gonna have to figure out how to do this kind of thing.
You know what I mean? Yep. That's an. I like that. If they do that, I would be very pleased by it.
Enjoy it. If we did get that reversal, I. I again, I really want Lucy.
I really want Lucy to be in a position of picking either her dad and Cooper or Cooper and somebody. And her picking Cooper not because she knows who that he's Cooper Howard, but because she accepts Cooper and his morality. Like, she doesn't necessarily have to like his choices, but she understands them. And, you know, and obviously, we'll get into this in episode four because she kind of changes her tune a little bit when she's under the influence. And so it's sort of like, I just.
I just really. I think that Cooper needs to be chosen by somebody. You know what I mean? I want that chosen for who he is as he is right now in this moment, not who he was in the past, not for who he might be in the future, who he is at present. Because I think that's why Lucy.
I think I. I can't remember if I was talking to you about this or if I was talking to my husband, but we were talking about, you know, Cooper and Lucy in episode two and why she was so emotional. And it's. It's just like Lucy is desperately holding on to the way that she was raised, because if she doesn't. If she doesn't have this, then who is she? And she's kind of going through this identity crisis.
And so I just think that it's really important that. That she realizes that, again, you don't have to agree with Cooper and how he's handling things, but at the same time, you have to at least trust him enough to. To, like, I don't agree with this, but you're making the decision. And I'm. I don't know as much as I like as you do in this context and in this situation.
I. I just really. I. I really wish she would have apologized to him, but I. But I. I'm glad we got the. Thank you. Yeah.
And so I just. I want to see a lot more of now Lucy trusting the ghoul. I think that we get a little bit of that in episode four, you know, but you could kind of argue, well, she's in a very.
She's in a very interesting situation about why she listens to him. It's beneficial for her to listen to him. It's not because she disagrees but chooses to listen to him anyway. So I don't know. I just.
Again, I'm not. I don't need them to necessarily be romantic or get together. Now. What do you think would be completely, like. Would completely ruin either characterization?
I think it's what, like. And by that, I mean, is there a situation where you'd be like, after all of this build up and he makes that choice or she makes that choice, it would be him getting back with Barb for me, like, for the sake of Janie or whatever. Like, that would just ruin his entire character arc for me. I think, too, if. If he.
If he takes advantage of Lucy in the state that she's in in episode four, and I don't mean in the fun way, I mean, like, legitly turning her over to Hank. I think that if he legitly turned her over to Hank and there wasn't a reversal like you said, or there wasn't some kind of plan of how they're both going to get out of this together still. Yeah. I would be like, if he still uses her as a means to an end and there's no guilt to it, or there's no Questioning it or doubting it the same way that he did when he rescued her. I think I would be really pissed off because.
Yeah, extremely upsetting. I just. I need them to, like, the way that the series needs to end. They just need to, like, go off together, whether they're romantically together or not, but, like, go off and have adventures together. Right.
Like, whether they're romantic, whether they're plinkers, like, whether it's a buddy cop thing, whatever. I just want them to, like, choose to stay with each other. Yeah. Yes. So I'm rooting for what you said I would love for Lucy.
I mean, again, we have that scene from the beginning where the ghoul and Max have teamed up. Like, so I'm thinking that something happens to Lucy, and I don't know. I have no idea. But, like, I just. I don't know.
I just don't want them, like, I. Again, every episode is better than the last, and I'm like, can this keep going? Can we get. Yeah. Like, I mean, I'm hoping so.
Any. Any final thoughts for this episode? Not really final thoughts, but, like, my question for everyone else is, what do you personally think that Cooper was referencing when he said maybe something stupid? Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, because that could be anything, right? Like, him believing in Barb was stupid. You know, like, him listening to Moldaver and trying to, you know, do that was stupid. And the fact that Lucy is classified as. I.
It's that. I think it's that he made the choice on his naive, like, believing the good in somebody. Even after Lucy left him, I think that he genuinely knew she would come back if she could and that she is good. She. It.
Whether how annoying she is or whether he agrees with it or not. He is good. She is good, and that is who he's betting on. What I want to know is, like, what context does that mean? Because, like, did you save her because you cared about her?
Because if you're just using her as a tool, then you. Then what you did wasn't stupid. That's where my issue is. Like, like you said, what does that mean?
So I guess. I guess. I guess we'll hopefully find out. We have four more weeks of fallout, and then. And then we have to starve for however long until we get the next season.
Do we know for sure if it's renewed? I don't know. I don't know. Like, please, God, let it be renewed. I just.
I love this show so much, and I would be sad if there are only two seasons. Let's See? Okay, so Fallout season three is confirmed. Yes. Thank you, God.
And it's filming scheduled to begin in Santa Clarita, California, around May of this year. May 1, 2026, with a potential late 2026 release to maintain momentum. That would be awesome. Die. I would be so excited.
Like, oh, wait. Apparently Amazon's Fallout website is counting down to something. Oh. They're talking about video games. So hopefully for all of you gamers, just.
That works out for you guys. Enjoy that. Yeah. But. Okay, so we already know Fallout Season 3 is happening, and they're hoping that it's going, clearly, because every time I go, it's in the top 10 of the TV shows.
So. Yeah, like, it's killing it. And I love that for us. For us. Yeah, I know.
I love for us all of the ghoulsy we're getting, and I just keep as. As a crack shipper. I'm just waiting. I'm waiting for the other shooter. Like.
Like, how long can we get this? How long? Right. Like, how long can we get it for before the other shoe drops? Right, Exactly.
So hopefully it works out. Hopefully. Episode five. I mean, we'll come back and we'll talk episode four. Because we have to.
Because what's interesting about episode four is that it's the shortest episode of the season, and it's the midpoint. Like, that is a pretty important episode. That's wild and bold, but so worth it, though. Like, God, I'm. I'm so ready for Monday, so we can talk about this again.
Yeah. All right, well, okay, so Chelsea asked the question. Put in the comments. If you have any other questions that you want us to talk about or dissect, feel free to leave those in the comments. Anything else you want to say, Chelsea?
Nope, I'm good. Awesome. Same here. And. Okay, guys, well, it was fun hanging out.
We'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.