Folktellers : Stories to be Shared

Go Write Me a Book, Kid!

2023년 7월 25일 · 전사

이 에피소드에 관해

The ins and outs of books, publishing and their impact upon getting your story out there.

We are joined by RJ King – Editor of dBusiness Magazine of Hour Media - Hour Media is the largest publisher of city and regional magazines in the United States — as well as a multimedia production and digital distribution company.

Knowledge is Power, and in the middle ages reserved for the rich and royal – THROUGH BOOKS. Throughout the Middle Ages, books were made by hand. Much of the writing was done by monks working in monasteries. It wasn’t until Johann Gutenberg used the technology of movable type from China and Korea to develop the printing press, allowing common, ordinary people access to knowledge.

Suddenly, knowledge was portable, accessible, and available to the masses. Gutenberg’s printing press revolutionized communication, much like the Internet revolutionized how people communicated in the second half of the 1900s—although at not quite the same lightning speed! Plentiful, affordable books opened the door to a whole new world of learning and ideas.

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All right,
everybody.
Welcome to episode five.
Go write me a book kid.
That's uh my best Frank Sinatra.
So this is,
this is gonna be all about storytelling through publishing and books and magazines and all these things.
But uh let's get our intros out of the way.
This is Joseph.
I am here with my two cohorts.
There's,
there's no adjective for me today.
Um The or what was it called?
Amphibious?
What was going down?
I was gonna say the no,
I won't say it anyhow.
Now I'm here,
Steve Sadler is here.
The stupendous Stephen Sadler and the KK here too.
I came back.
I,
I show up they don't have last names apparently anymore.
There,
they're so popular now.
They're just going by their first names.
They are.
Oh I thought you were referring that your,
that's your new pronoun.
Well,
how,
how many famous people are?
They,
you,
you hear their one word name and you know who they are,
right?
That's,
are we at that point?
You guys are so famous?
You,
you should just go by a simple,
that's what I think we're not quite there yet.
The,
the artist formerly known as the podcast known as Oh my gosh.
OK.
So,
yeah,
what a start.
So we're already going down the rabbit hole.
This is again,
I will this up.
So we're talking about storytelling in,
in books and in publishing.
And we actually have uh a guest a little later on.
We'll have RJ King who is the editor in chief of the business magazine of our media.
And I will tell you from my notes,
our media is the largest publisher of city and regional magazines in the United States as well as a multimedia production and digital distribution company.
So this is big time.
Yeah.
Yeah,
he's,
yeah,
he's a heavy hitter.
He's a heavy hitter.
So uh we're all authors.
We're all been uh we've been self published,
we've been with,
with uh major publishers,
independent publishers.
So it'll be interesting uh because we've all had different experiences there.
But I I open with this for your consideration.
So how long have books been around?
I mean,
originally books starting in the middle ages were handwritten by monks.
And uh it wasn't until Gutenberg,
I think it was like 15,
17 adapted movable type from the Chinese and the Koreans.
And you could actually mass produce books.
And the significance of that is that regular people now were given portable knowledge.
Think about that,
think about that access,
access to knowledge.
So it wasn't just for the elite anymore.
And now regular people could have access to that knowledge and it was portable,
you could take that you could take that with you.
So,
you know,
knowledge is power if you knew how to read,
if you knew how to read,
right?
So all of a sudden now you've got this acceleration in learning and reading because it was access to knowledge,
what's going,
what's going through my mind is,
you know,
before it was all handwritten,
everything had to be handwritten as far as a book or content you mentioned about the Gutenberg Press and it became mass production at that time.
What was that like?
Versus one copy per,
per book.
There is now 10 that the good word press or five,
whatever that number.
But,
but either way it was a bigger number,
right?
And I don't know what that volume is.
But um it,
it allowed people access and I think that's the biggest thing is access to information,
access to information.
And now all of a sudden there are authors,
you know,
you know,
the first,
the,
the biggest translated work was the Bible.
That's what the monks were.
I was working on and they were working on,
you know,
religious text and,
and manuscript.
But now,
you know,
now you've got movable type and it's a,
it's a business because before uh they were doing that for the kings and queens and the elite,
we have,
you know,
having these books hand done and then passed on from generation to generation.
Now you had uh you had books that were accessible to the general public,
they were cheaper.
And now there's a whole,
I wonder which King went to Gutenberg first and said,
hey,
let's do a publishing deal,
right?
Publish,
publish my biography.
Will you do that for me or follow the money?
I mean,
really,
I bet if you,
if you followed all the traditional presses and,
and publishers and you followed it all the way back,
it would be,
you know,
whoever bankrolled that because I'm sure it wasn't cheap to,
to,
to,
to build the press and,
and to do that and,
you know,
it probably was in all the major cities started the major cities and then smaller presses moving out and that wasn't just books.
I mean,
so once they did that,
that now you had,
you know,
newspapers,
now you had,
you know,
magazines,
you had,
you know,
all those things you gotta remember,
like,
um,
the printing presses.
What were they originally created for anyways?
And it wasn't just books.
It was for money.
Mm.
Yeah.
Oh,
they were printing money?
Of course.
I mean,
you don't,
that's probably the biggest thing.
I mean,
without the money you're not gonna be able to buy the books.
So,
I don't.
So,
the chicken and the egg thing,
right.
Which one came first?
The money or the books?
Well,
we're gonna get RJ on the phone and,
uh,
we'd love to hear his perspective because he's a guy that's in the industry,
he's been in the industry for decades.
So he's been in it when things were hot in print,
you still had newspapers.
It wasn't,
everything wasn't digital.
I mean,
RJ started,
you know,
he's of our era.
So when he started,
you know,
uh,
print in magazines and newspapers and books was still a thing and then you've,
you know,
you've heard of the slow death.
So I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about,
you know,
what it was like,
you know,
in the eighties and beyond.
And then what is it now?
I mean,
are people even reading anymore?
He's also an amazing author.
Yeah.
And there,
yeah,
there you go.
Hey RJ,
it's Joseph.
We were Steve and Kurt.
Uh great to have you on.
We gave you a lovely intro already.
You've been,
your ears are probably burning.
Uh We're talking about your role as editor in chief of the business magazine as a part of our media.
And you're,
have you on because you are an author,
you are an editor,
you are a chief bottle washer and cap caper in the publishing industry.
So,
what we were talking about and we'd like to get your perspective on is we were talking about,
you know,
the history of,
of print and publishing and it was all,
you know,
it was all ink and paper and now we've moved from ink and paper into digital and,
uh,
and what does that look like?
Are people reading less or are they reading differently?
And,
uh,
you know,
what,
what's your take on that?
What's your take on sort of your history?
You know,
it'd be good to get a little bit about when you started in the industry and what it was like,
uh,
transitioning to where you are today.
I mean,
what,
what have you seen in the industry over the past decades?
What I started in journalism,
I was a business writer for the Detroit News and we had a huge,
uh,
business staff,
uh,
probably 16 people,
including editors,
uh,
and slowly over time that,
uh,
just got,
uh widowed down and there's probably maybe seven or eight of the Detroit news these days,
I'm just guessing.
Uh,
but with computers to becoming much more prominent and access to information much,
uh,
more quickly when the information age,
uh,
people are looking to get their content,
uh,
much quicker and faster and,
and online.
So the good news is,
there's still plenty of journalists around,
um,
whether they're working full time or,
uh,
many of them are retired and working part time.
So there's a lot of tribal knowledge and,
uh,
those folks,
um,
pretty much like to stay active,
uh,
writing in a feature once or twice a month.
Um,
what it's for the business or our Detroit or,
you know,
any,
uh,
newspaper magazine or online publication and as well,
you have,
you know,
a lot more smaller stories that tell people very quickly what's going on and those are great for your smartphones.
But if you're looking for a deep dive,
uh say a feature story on General Motors,
very hard to read that on the phone.
Uh especially if there's charts and graphs that go with it.
So,
Prince is a great,
still a great medium for that.
And uh Prince is uh it's very mobile uh as well.
So it's great for airplanes,
driving in cars and uh waiting in doctors lounges and those types of things.
But I think overall the news is coming in quicker and faster and there's smaller bites of it.
Uh but there's also the in depth pieces uh in depth features out there that uh that are still enjoyed in print.
Yeah.
So,
so it sounds like what I'm hearing you say is though the format has changed.
So uh people want their news or,
or facts quickly,
they want it quickly and that,
that seems to be they're accessing in,
in digital formats on their,
on their phones or ipads or whatever.
Um but when they want to do a deeper dive and then when they really want more of a,
an in depth story that that books and print are still uh are still a valid mechanism and they're getting it in many other different places as well.
What do you,
what do you mean?
Well,
I mean,
the content can be found in search,
it can be on RSS feeds,
which we can talk about later.
But I mean,
it's,
there's ways of being able to,
for people to be able to subscribe to certain things right now digitally.
And so you get notified on whatever device you're using,
whether it's a phone or whether it's a browser or whatever,
it's like,
hey,
here's a new article from,
you know,
our magazine or the business.
So now,
now,
now content and information is being pushed based upon your customized interests.
Well,
I think,
and,
and this is Curt RJ,
it's so great having you on.
I can tell you that.
I think it's more from the digital side.
I think it's headlines.
I really think that's what's being marketed and pushed is headlines and then it might go a little bit deeper,
right on the digital side.
People are reading headlines first and then deciding if they want to read any content that's in there.
But RJ,
I guess one of the questions I have is,
is I think there's,
you know,
because I still like paper,
I still like having like a magazine or something like a,
a great magazine like B Business or,
or like our Detroit,
our magazine where I can still pick it up.
There's images,
there's graphs,
there's different things in there that is hard to digest and it's hard to,
I guess,
fully enjoy on a digital side.
So there,
there's still a need for that is what you're finding.
Correct.
Oh,
yeah,
I mean,
the uh descriptions we have are,
are still very strong and we have great distribution for the doctor's offices or the Skyline clubs.
Um,
high traffic lobbies,
country clubs anywhere where people are,
uh have time on their hands,
looking to relax and,
and books,
uh you know,
physical books are still dominating over uh what you would call E readers.
So,
uh there are e readers out there and,
you know,
Kindle and those types of formats.
Uh but people uh still predominantly prefer a physical book as well.
I think that uh partly that uh you know,
they just want some downtime and uh you know,
if you stay on the computer or on your phone for too long,
you can just drive yourself right.
And,
and that to your point too,
I,
I pulled some sta statistics uh down this line.
These are publishing net revenues and other,
these are from the publishers themselves for books,
the net revenue.
If you look at the last 10 years,
it,
it's,
it's not changed drastically.
Like in 2013,
it was approximately 27 billion in 2022 is 28 billion.
And then there's a little dip in between there,
but it's really kind of remained consistent.
And that was surprising to me because I thought it'd be a more of a major drop in the publishing world to understand that.
But it sounds like there's still,
like you said,
there's people want physical books,
they want physical publishing according to the net revenue.
My side table seems to tell me that I like books.
Most of them are from Joseph though.
But uh and I have,
I have a bunch of RJ S there as well,
which I've read eight track being one of them,
which is a great book.
But um and you got another one coming out,
right RJ.
You got something else coming out here soon.
I was uh yeah,
just after Labor Day,
a book called Taboo which tells the story of it's the life story of Nino re uh and focusing in on uh one of his clubs and restaurants that he owns called Club Taboo,
which was,
and the East River Front of Detroit from 1985 to 1995.
And it was kind of like the studio 54 of Detroit.
And you had such things as Cinemax doing a tape show called James Brown and Friends,
which included AAA one hour show with James Brown and Aretha Franklin,
Robert Palmer,
Joe Cocker Wilson Pickett and um a few other stars.
And uh you know,
Prince Madonna,
uh you know,
Sheila,
he,
they all came through that club because uh after their shows,
they were looking for something to do and invariably people wound up there.
So it was a,
a huge hit in quite a dynamic time in Detroit.
A few stories I would imagine that came along with that.
I have,
I have a few stories we heard about those.
I wonder if in the book.
No,
no.
So,
so I think this is,
this is a good segue to RJ.
I mean,
you,
you are an author,
you are a writer and I,
you know,
I'm very interested in talking to you about what the impact of traditional publishing to,
you know,
the digit digitization of media.
Say that three times fast,
easy for you to say uh it was not,
I can take a deep breath after that.
Um But I really,
really interested in getting your perspective as an author,
uh what your experience is and,
and a publisher as well.
So,
you know,
you've published in many different formats.
Um where,
where are your challenges?
Because this is funny,
the terminology has changed.
So you hear,
still hear the word author,
but there's also the word content creator because now the the things that we write is are now called content because it,
it's our written word is not just being used in print,
it's being used in many different spaces,
it's being used digitally and,
and other areas.
So now like,
not only are you if you're an author,
you're a content creator,
intellectual property as well.
So,
so a you know,
what's your take on that as a,
as a writer and as an author and now as a content creator,
um you know,
does that open up more opportunities.
Does it present more challenges?
You know,
what have you seen?
Well,
I think it does open up more opportunities.
Um,
so more things you can come out with,
it's just like anything is if you stay busy,
uh you're going to be busy because people will gravitate to your work.
Um,
and you know,
a thing that's,
uh,
is emerging now is um these sort of online,
um,
digital services,
but I'm referring specifically to something like chat GCP uh where they are just uh combing the internet for uh information based on a query from uh uh a user.
Unfortunately,
the uh service does not distinguish between uh copyrights and un copyrighted material.
And now you're starting to see lawsuits pop up because,
um,
the service is pulling from copyrighted material and uh the authors or content uh uh owners if you will,
aren't getting any revenue derived from that.
Um And it is a violation of copyright laws.
So that's an interesting thing to follow.
I think,
uh for your listeners,
um,
you know,
I think services like are,
are good for internal things that are public facing.
But uh if you're trying to,
um use that to,
to write a white paper or publish a brochure uh or,
you know,
get literature out uh and hand it out during conferences and things like that,
that could definitely come back to bite you if you're not careful in terms of uh how the information is being sourced and uh you could open yourself up to um to copyright matters.
The other thing that books provide um is content for,
for movies and uh TV series and,
and all those types of things that um you know,
because Hollywood in general is uh always looking for good content.
So uh writing your next book and getting it um published and uh it's very easy now these days to,
to get your book uploaded on uh Amazon and,
and get your sales going.
And uh the other great thing is you don't have with Amazon and other services like that.
You don't have um books sitting in a warehouse.
It's all on books on demand and as well for the authors,
they provide a steep discount or a wholesale price if you will and uh they'll ship them um all over the United States.
So if you're in Detroit and speaking at a conference in Denver,
uh you could have the books arrive uh shipped to Denver,
you know,
and each um you know,
let's say you're speaking to 250 people,
they each have a copy of your book right there.
You don't have to log in on the airplane and log in from the hotel and all that good stuff be shipped right to the Convention Center.
And um so there's all different ways that you can um maximize on demand uh uh book publishing uh to your advantages.
And up there,
which uh you know,
wasn't available really because I'm not gonna take 250 books in my carry on bag.
I know that Delta will kill you.
They'll kill my personal item that would be heavy.
So RJ,
I,
I have another,
I have a,
I have another question for you along those lines.
Um So,
I mean,
you are uh a leader in the publishing industry.
Where do you think the industry is going and will it survive in its current form?
Well,
I think it's moving uh a little bit more,
you know,
very tiny bit each day to digital.
Uh but people are living longer and uh you know,
we're um our media LLC we're in 12 different states and Florida is the best state.
Uh It does get a little older.
Um a lot of retirees and people that have,
uh you know,
sort of made it with time on their hands.
So not only magazines,
but the books are a very uh excellent state for that market.
And I think eventually you'll see people develop um Polygraphs so that,
uh you know,
you could check things on a wall,
say,
for instance,
uh a,
a recipe that you might be working on,
uh that uh literally will float above your kitchen stove and oven.
Um or,
you know,
if you're outside trying to learn how to uh hit a ball off a tea uh for T ball uh baseball,
uh if you could have the instructions right there in front of you.
Um,
and I would foresee that there would be some sort of a tie in with your phone,
um,
or,
or an ancillary device and,
uh,
it would speak to you and,
uh,
with a camera,
it,
it could even track how you're doing in terms of swinging the bat.
Uh,
it could be golf.
It,
it could be horseback riding,
it could be so many different things.
So,
uh those things haven't,
have not been invented yet.
Um But certainly everybody recalls seeing,
uh from the first Star Wars movie when Princess Leia popped up as a holograph part of R two D two.
Uh So I think that's the future.
Uh,
you know,
in the beginning you'll be able to send messages like that and then in time it'll be more of a back and forth conversation with,
uh,
you know,
say a resident expert and,
and say gardening or something like that.
Yeah.
Well,
that's,
I mean,
that's fascinating.
So if you pull that thread all the way through,
because I'm always thinking like,
ok,
we're,
we're all authors and writers and this goes back to that,
the,
the term content creator because someone's still gonna have to create those stories or create those instructions or whatever.
So,
you know,
maybe that's the,
like what you're saying,
that's really the future of,
you know,
how,
how do journalists and,
and writers and authors stay in business they stay in business by uh creating content and,
and creating the stories regardless of what the new medium is,
maybe the future of reading is going to change.
What do you mean?
Maybe instead of reading left to right or right to left,
depending upon whether you're here in China or whatever.
Maybe that goes away.
Have you ever seen those little widgets that says,
yeah,
you want to read,
you know,
like 1000 words a minute and it pops up one word at a time and it puts them in front of your eyes and all of a sudden you're reading at that speed.
Have you seen those little widgets had a speed reading class?
So I took it.
But this is beyond that.
This is literally,
it introduces,
introduces to you one word at a time and your brain has the capabilities of being able to read at extremely high rate.
And the reason we can is because it's the mechanical process of moving our eyes across the page.
And because my dyslexia is,
was actually caused because of my eyes because what would happen is my eyes were misaligned and they would actually,
you know,
blend together words.
So it wasn't really kind of dyslexia.
It's the mechanical process of how I was reading.
Well,
imagine if in the future that changes.
So it's the new Evelyn Wood Speed reading course,
but someone's got to write that no one knows who that is.
RJ.
RJ we,
we really appreciate your time today and uh just so sort of enclosing uh what's the best advice you could give to a budding writer or journalist or someone who wants to get into the publishing industry.
Well,
number one,
I would uh jump on Amazon and um their book publishing division uh KDP.
And uh you know,
there's nice instructional videos there that teach you uh exactly how to um you load a book up on to Amazon.
So at least you have that background uh in terms of writing a book,
uh I found the best way is to first come up with the chapters.
Uh you know,
you wanna write about the history of,
say the Eiffel Tower.
So you,
you know,
you go back in France and,
and talk about what happened to lead to the construction of the Eiffel Tower and then how it was built and then uh disassembled and then shipped across,
you know,
so you can sort of see the chapters one by one sort of flow into and once you have your chapters that really gives you a great organizational uh template for writing your book,
you know.
So one day,
OK,
I'm gonna work on chapter eight and hey,
I just had a good idea on chapter two.
I'll jump to that and pretty soon it all comes together.
It's a very good organizational um practice to uh come up with the chapters first and then get to know designers,
um you can just Google images and uh for particular things that you're looking for and,
and also spend time in bookstores to look at um book covers to see what's uh what's working and what's not working.
You really wanna draw the reader in.
Um instead of having a kind of a cover,
you really,
really want something to draw people in.
Um and don't be afraid to change things.
Um You could have a different cover this year and next year you could have a,
a different cover for your book.
Uh You could have it come out in different colors,
uh All different types of things to,
to drive sales additions for pink for uh Breast Awareness Month in October.
Uh you know,
all those different types of things that,
you know,
something orange for Halloween,
whatever it might be.
Um And then really look at your properties is um really not just a book but potentially a movie or a TV series or a podcast series.
Uh Just always thinking,
you know,
how you can maximize uh the content you're creating by introducing it through all different mediums.
Awesome.
I think he's saying trans media,
Joseph.
Yes,
I think he is.
Well,
sage advice as always RJ,
we appreciate your time today and your energy and your smarts and thanks for uh for being on the folk tellers.
OK.
Well,
thank you so much guys.
I really appreciate it.
We'll talk to you soon.
Thank you take care.
Thank you.
All right,
bye bye.
Well,
that,
that was fascinating.
I'm glad we had RJ on um a wealth of knowledge.
So he's,
he's got me thinking now of as writers,
as authors and publishers of books in this modern age.
How are we getting our stories out there?
How are you pulling people in?
I mean,
I think it's such a challenge because what I didn't get to ask RJ was,
I really do think people are reading differently.
I don't think people are reading less.
I think they're reading differently.
And for,
like,
for me,
like I read,
if I'm reading a digital on a screen or on a,
on an ipad or on my phone,
I'm usually reading for knowledge and information.
I'm,
I'm gathering information books.
I'm a book person.
I love books.
I love going to bookstores.
I love spending time in there.
If you guys,
have you guys ever been down to John King?
Books?
Down down in the city.
So John,
I think it's the second largest used bookstore in the United States.
It's an old glove factory.
It's five floors of pure literary joy.
If you love books is to get down there.
I actually did,
um,
it was on the sale table.
It was just the bargain bin.
Yeah,
it was the bargain bin.
I,
I was,
yeah,
there was,
there was 10 of them.
Yeah.
My,
my book,
they just,
they just give them away.
Like tell them what,
what's the average,
oh,
yeah,
the,
yeah,
the average lifetime book sales for an author.
And this is like,
whether you're self published or whatever,
it's 10 books.
I wouldn't think that.
And that's only if you have,
have a,
a friendly family and relatives,
you have enough people to buy that.
Or is that that's bought,
that's,
that's bought,
which goes back,
I brought up one of the stats with RJ about the publishing that sales,
right?
Annual Nets,
I was surprised that it was basically,
it,
it didn't change drastically throughout the years.
However,
the unit sales retail,
which are the numbers of books sold to retail dropped a little bit like 325,000 annually to 2 25.
Um But why,
why is that?
Yeah,
that's the,
the,
the,
you know,
so people are still reading books but not a subs.
I mean,
I guess one of my questions is how are publishers still making net profits that are remaining consistent?
So,
yeah,
this is like,
this is what I want to kind of dig into because there's still a lot of publishing.
But the face of publishing has changed.
There's so much more noise out there because the great thing is you can self publish,
but it's a double edged sword because now anyone can write a book.
It used to be like there was a certain amount of whatever your subject matter was.
There's a certain amount of curation and validation of your content and being able to string words together.
That's what traditional publishers did.
And they found,
they found authors and writers that were good at their craft and that were,
were telling stories and that would be interesting to the public.
Right.
It had to be sellable too.
But wasn't,
they wouldn't take it.
Right.
So,
now you've got like,
anyone,
anyone can write a book and actually,
if you do it on Amazon it's free.
If you,
I don't agree with that,
you don't agree with what that,
that anyone can write a book.
It,
it's because it's extremely difficult,
the whole entire process.
I mean,
even if you're just using Amazon alone,
that doesn't mean that all of that other things are being done for.
You.
See,
see,
well,
there are many men then because I,
I still,
I still say I know you just,
you're just,
someone hit him,
hit him.
If I,
if I come here from hockey,
I'm calm.
Ok.
I don't get to play hockey.
This is,
this is hockey,
at least a quarter of wood or something.
No,
no,
let's talk about,
let's talk about this.
So I think anyone can,
can write a book,
get a book published.
That doesn't mean it's good and that doesn't mean anyone's gonna know about it.
That's what you're,
that's what you're hitting on.
Even the technical ability to be able to do it.
I mean,
I'm a,
I,
but you you just said,
pay someone to do it.
That's not you doing it.
I'm talking about self publish.
You do everything all the way to eight.
I was saying,
well,
I think what I'm hearing,
that's what self publish means self.
If it,
if I'm paying someone else to do it,
it ain't self.
But there's a whole industry on self publishing support that you can pay people to do the bits and pieces.
But don't you think that's kind of fighting girls?
Go in the other room,
please.
Uh We're fighting over books here.
Stop it.
It's not a bad thing to fight over,
I guess.
Go ahead.
So,
what I'm hearing though is Joseph to your point.
Anybody has the capability of authoring a book,
all the tools and everything,
right?
That's what you're saying,
Steve,
what you're saying is,
well,
not everybody can write a book and I,
and I agree with both of you,
right?
Not everybody can write a book,
but everybody has the capability with what's available these days to write a book.
Am I correct in saying that for both of you?
But let's use one thing,
just one thing like the copy writing process.
Yes.
Ok.
That alone is a very complicated thing to do.
Yeah,
I can pay a lawyer to do it,
but I paid a lawyer.
Well,
then you're not self,
you had the publisher do it.
That's what I'm saying.
I mean,
to,
to be able to be in a completely independent and do it all yourself.
The steps to the,
to the process of publishing a book are many.
And I know I've been through it several times and,
uh,
but here's,
it's difficult.
I mean,
it,
it,
it can be,
here's,
here's my mantra though,
Steve.
I,
if I can write a book and it becomes a regional best seller in its category,
anybody can write a book in my opinion.
right?
It takes one thing,
it takes an idea,
it takes an idea that you have to have now.
Is it work?
Yeah,
it's a lot of work.
It's a lot of struggle.
It's a lot of challenge.
It's a lot of,
you know,
soul searching about.
Well,
how do I,
what,
what wordsmith do I do here and how do I change this?
But I think if I can write a book and it does,
OK,
and it turns into a TV show and all this other fun stuff,
anybody can in my opinion.
So what you're what you're saying and I agree with you,
this is,
this goes back to the storytelling.
So everyone does a story to tell.
But if you've never,
if you want to tell that story through publishing,
through a book,
you may not understand the medium,
how,
how to get,
how to get that out there.
I think your point and that's Steve's point.
We all agree with each other.
Could write a book if you understood every single part of the process.
I didn't have to,
I didn't have to.
But that's different.
You,
you said anyone can write a book.
Well,
anyone can't get a publisher.
You had connections because who you are and you were able to get a publisher.
Anyone can't just go out and say I'm gonna self today,
I'm gonna be a self published author.
They're not gonna know the process.
And I,
yeah,
there's a lot of self help stuff out there to be able to help them do that.
But the bar is still extremely high.
So to say anyone can do it,
I don't agree.
Anyone can't,
not without help.
They need lots of help to be able to do it.
So even if you self publish or you have a publisher,
the work is pretty well,
this significant amount of work that I'm not talking about writing the book.
Anyone can write a book,
whether you do it yourself or whether you have a publisher or you,
you have someone,
you pay someone to do some support activity for you.
You get that book published.
Let's so that's done now how there's so much noise out there?
How do you get the word out?
And this is,
I think this is a constant struggle.
I mean,
the New York best time seller list is rigged.
So and Steve,
you could share that,
but there's a,
it is a formula and so is the ranking algorithm on I won't say,
well,
I won't say it on Amazon.
They all are,
they can be gained.
I mean,
a lot of people have gained the system and,
and got to be a best seller by doing what they made their book a penny.
And so they sold a ton of books for a penny and that's what drove them up the ranks and then they change the rate later on and,
and,
and services that will do that.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But in other countries,
we don't do that.
So we set that aside,
set that aside on the side table.
And if you're just someone that's not gonna try to game the system or,
or rig the system,
how do you get the word out?
And I go back to the way people are consuming stories and consuming information.
It's kind of like you,
you almost have to spoon feed them something that's like,
hey,
that's cool.
What's that?
And then that allows them to go deeper and deeper.
But,
but how do you,
how do you do that?
I mean,
is there,
is there a formula for that or is it sort of catches catch?
Can it's extremely difficult to market one book?
Because if you give,
you know,
if you share out that information or share out the story,
then it's like a one and done and then everyone has your story anyway.
Um,
like what you're doing makes way more sense because you have many,
many,
many stories to follow the first one.
So it's all about constant content generation.
That's what is will be successful.
It's not about just,
hey,
I'm gonna make one book today and it's gonna be um you know,
New York Times best seller.
I'm gonna make millions of dollars.
That is not how it works.
So don't,
don't give away the secret sauce because you're gonna give that away in the next.
Well,
we're gonna talk about digital marketing,
we talk about which is obviously,
but I think to me the book,
the book is always a platform for something bigger,
right?
If I'm just writing a book to sell a book,
there has to be something bigger than that,
whether it be speaking,
whether it be a TV show,
whether it be a movie.
So you talk about your personal experience with that because you've like,
what do you,
you've got a book coming out?
Well,
you can plug your book.
Well,
I,
I have had,
this is my third one now.
And so my first book from Glory days is with interviews with former professional athletes.
I interviewed athletes for this book.
The book did pretty good turned into a TV show.
We've done four in four seasons of interviews,
50 TV,
interviews with these athletes.
And so the book turned into something bigger.
I speak on the topics that we talk about.
Now from that book.
In other words,
the transitions of athletes,
the transitions of uh businesses and companies.
So that book is morphed into so much more,
which is my point that a book needs to be a platform for something bigger.
It's also turned into two more books titled The Change where I,
you know,
talk about Leading Change and,
and um how to,
how to change.
And so um the idea of,
to me is boy,
if I wanna use this book as a platform to speak,
then I wanna make sure that I'm doing whatever I need to do to get it out there,
whether it be a trans media approach,
right?
In other words,
it's not just a book,
I'm marketing,
I wanna market some video,
I wanna market some uh you know,
other content about that book or about me or about the company in order to do so.
But it,
to me,
anybody writing a book,
it has to start with this book needs to be something,
a platform for something bigger,
correct.
And it,
and it obviously it depends on what kind of book it is.
I mean,
if it's a self help book or that type of thing versus a novel,
you know,
those are two different things.
I mean,
you're gonna speak around your books and that uh but when you're dealing with novels,
what do people want,
they want more stories,
they want to be like,
why is Netflix popular because of series?
So book series TV,
series,
that's what's important.
You gotta,
you gotta keep the if you're a great author,
keep the content coming.
I took,
uh Joseph to Los Angeles once and they said,
you know,
you need to stop writing and,
and I on the plane back seriously and on the plane back,
I looked at him,
I said I was crying to them.
I was crying.
I was sad.
I was like a kicked puppy.
Like it's ok.
I can't get back.
They're like you have enough content.
I said,
no,
you never have enough content.
Well,
I just can't get past.
You said you took him once.
Is that,
is there a lot?
OK.
All right.
I just want to clarify that.
But,
but yeah,
so the content.
So there's two different angles like you talked about Steve,
there's one of if I'm a novel or I'm creating a novel type story,
pushing more and more content building,
that story is important if in my case,
it's nonfiction.
Um having a bigger platform for that nonfiction.
Yeah.
And this,
this bleeds into and we've talked about this on multiple occasions.
So we're talking today,
we're talking about publishing.
So this bleeds into that whole trans media.
Like looking at it goes back to the story,
Kurt,
you said it,
it's like you have to have a platform where you're in and in this case,
you can replace platform with story,
like you have to start with a compelling story.
Uh And we were talking about if you,
if you're gonna make it in a book or whatever.
But if you think of,
if you have a compelling story,
you need to tell that story across media.
So,
and that's sort of that trans media approach.
And even if you're talking about publishing,
you may say,
ok,
I'm going to publish a book,
but you got to pull that thread all the way through because then it's like,
OK,
you have this physical book now.
But what are you gonna do with it?
How are you,
how are people going to the story?
What is the story?
What,
what,
why you wrote it?
What it's for?
I mean,
what's the story behind that part of it,
in your opinion?
Well,
I mean,
and this is when how Steve and I connected was,
you know,
I had basically built out this storytelling universe,
this concept of the folk tellers universe and people traveling in time and space to tell others the stories they need to hear,
to fulfill their destinies and a,
a in a series of children's books.
But it was like,
OK,
how am I?
I was a book writer,
author.
That's all I knew,
you know,
that was the medium that I was working in.
But I knew like just doing a book series wasn't gonna cut it and Steve saw it and was like,
no,
this is like,
you kind of need to look at this.
Yeah,
we were,
and you know,
we were talking about,
it's like,
ok,
how do you,
when you change the medium,
you change the experience?
So it goes back to the story,
how are people interacting with the story?
And my biggest concern was um what I can control is the book series because that's what I know.
But I need to bring in other experts that understand other media and could,
could amplify and to tell this same story in a different way in a different medium.
And we all interact through different types of publishing,
whether it's being published as music,
whether it's being published art or you know,
literary works.
It's all being,
it's all,
it's how,
how,
how people are connecting,
how they're bringing all of these pieces together.
And those all sit on top of what Kurt just said the platform,
right?
So if we can say anything today,
you know,
if someone's out there and they,
they've got all of these stories in their mind,
they should really step back,
get a white piece of paper,
put it on the,
yeah,
I'm not saying computer same paper,
lay it out onto the kitchen table and say,
how am I going to design my universe?
How am I going to design my platform?
And I think most people don't,
don't do that.
Don't,
don't start there.
Here's my mantra with that.
We have more information available than ever before in history,
right.
Ever.
If I can't find something in 30 seconds,
something's wrong,
right?
But yet we have less thinking and it takes thinking to do that what you just described,
Steve.
And so,
you know,
whether it be the Gutenberg Press to where we are today,
right?
The publishing that started with the Gutenberg Press that we talked about at the beginning.
R J's content to where we are today.
How do we wrap this up?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the,
I think the,
the question for if I was listening to this,
I'd be like,
where do I start?
Like you touched on a little bit?
But OK,
so all this,
there's all this noise and all this going on in trans media and multimedia and content creation and blah,
blah,
blah.
If I have a story,
where do I start to capture and communicate this story?
I think it depends on where they,
who the audience is,
right?
Because to me that depends on which form I use.
Like for a book.
I know I have a certain audience,
somebody wants to read a book,
whether it be online,
whether it be uh physical,
whether it be audio,
if I have a TV show based on those stories that's a different,
could be the same demographic,
but it's a different way of digesting.
I think you've talked about that the way you digest the content.
Um I think that's an important question to answer early on of who,
who is my audience,
why is this important and what is the best um medium to use for this,
I think that's a good point.
So I'll push back and say,
I,
I would say as a creator,
it starts from within.
So how as a creator are you best as an artist?
Really think of yourself as,
how are you best hardwired to communicate that?
For me,
it was writing books.
Um For me it's TV,
for you,
it's TV.
For me,
what about you,
Steve?
I mean,
like,
where's your starting point when you're trying to,
trying to put stuff together to,
to tell a story?
If you were to,
to look at pieces of paper that sit on my desk,
I doodle like if I'm on a zoom call,
I'm sitting there drawing little pictures,
you know,
I'm a left handed engineer.
What can I say?
Um But I love to draw little pictures.
It get,
it makes,
it brings ideas out with me.
So then what I'll do is actually go back and look at my notes,
my notes don't look like regular people's notes,
they doodles and pictures and all kinds all over the place.
And then I,
I look at,
I go OK.
Yeah,
this is what I want to do.
And so even if I'm building technology or just inventing things or whatever,
it's all done the same way,
it's all done through doodling.
So what you're hitting on and I think we can all agree to this at some point.
If you're gonna tell a story and you want to publish in whatever format you have to crystallize it down to its simplest form,
at least in your own head.
Like,
so for me,
you know,
this whole storytelling universe that I built.
I crystallized it down into people say,
well,
what's this about?
What's this whole huge thing about?
I'm like,
it's a boy,
a book in a shadow,
meaning what?
It's a story about a boy,
a book in a shadow.
That's the whole thing.
Yeah.
It's,
it's like what Disney,
like they said,
it all began with a little mouse.
You know,
you like,
that's what,
and,
and it,
it's way harder to do that than,
than you would think.
But at some point you have to do that.
So,
um anyway,
that's all we've got today.
Uh any closing thoughts and words on storytelling and publishing and,
and the madness,
the rabbit hole that we've gone down.
Yeah.
For me,
it,
it's back to what you two were having dialogue.
I don't want to call it argument.
It probably was,
but I didn't see any.
Oh,
let him go.
That's the Monty Python.
Because Joseph to your point,
the,
the anybody is capable of writing a book these days with what's available out there for,
for people to write and a publishing.
It could be music too.
Right.
There's avenues out there to Steve to your point that it,
it,
it might be any,
anybody is capable of,
of um having information or have an opportunity to write a book but not everybody is capable of.
It is,
I guess I want to frame that.
Yeah,
I mean,
anyone has the capabilities to be able to write a story but publishing it because of the,
the complicated process that you have to go through,
you either have to get external help or you have to figure it out yourself.
It's one way or another and it's not easy.
It doesn't matter whether you're self publishing or whether you're gonna have someone else publish it,
it's hard and,
um,
it's hard for a reason.
I mean,
because it's hard work and anything that's hard work,
you know,
is worth doing great point.
So that's a great,
that's a great way to end.
It's not easy,
but it's worth doing.
So we highly recommend if you have a story to tell,
just get started.
I would tell it.
Thanks everyone.
We'll see you soon.

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# aretha franklin

# james brown

curt rj

stephen sadler

# steve sadler

# frank sinatra

# johann gutenberg

# rj king

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전사 🔗

1
00:00:08,300 --> 00:00:08,779
All right,
2
00:00:08,789 --> 00:00:09,340
everybody.
3
00:00:09,350 --> 00:00:12,359
Welcome to episode five.
4
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,300
Go write me a book kid.
5
00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:16,729
That's uh my best Frank Sinatra.
6
00:00:16,739 --> 00:00:17,309
So this is,
7
00:00:17,319 --> 00:00:26,760
this is gonna be all about storytelling through publishing and books and magazines and all these things.
8
00:00:26,770 --> 00:00:29,159
But uh let's get our intros out of the way.
9
00:00:29,170 --> 00:00:30,360
This is Joseph.
10
00:00:30,370 --> 00:00:34,099
I am here with my two cohorts.
11
00:00:34,779 --> 00:00:35,009
There's,
12
00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:36,819
there's no adjective for me today.
13
00:00:37,119 --> 00:00:40,270
Um The or what was it called?
14
00:00:40,639 --> 00:00:41,119
Amphibious?
15
00:00:41,459 --> 00:00:42,509
What was going down?
16
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,659
I was gonna say the no,
17
00:00:45,669 --> 00:00:47,740
I won't say it anyhow.
18
00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:49,310
Now I'm here,
19
00:00:49,319 --> 00:00:50,700
Steve Sadler is here.
20
00:00:50,909 --> 00:00:55,950
The stupendous Steven Sadler and the KK here too.
21
00:00:56,979 --> 00:00:57,790
I came back.
22
00:00:58,009 --> 00:00:58,020
I,
23
00:00:59,930 --> 00:01:04,610
I show up they don't have last names apparently anymore.
24
00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:04,930
There,
25
00:01:05,620 --> 00:01:06,730
they're so popular now.
26
00:01:06,739 --> 00:01:08,120
They're just going by their first names.
27
00:01:08,389 --> 00:01:08,849
They are.
28
00:01:10,199 --> 00:01:12,029
Oh I thought you were referring that your,
29
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,529
that's your new pronoun.
30
00:01:16,540 --> 00:01:16,739
Well,
31
00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:16,919
how,
32
00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:18,120
how many famous people are?
33
00:01:18,129 --> 00:01:18,319
They,
34
00:01:18,330 --> 00:01:18,669
you,
35
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,059
you hear their one word name and you know who they are,
36
00:01:21,069 --> 00:01:21,339
right?
37
00:01:21,349 --> 00:01:21,629
That's,
38
00:01:21,639 --> 00:01:22,639
are we at that point?
39
00:01:22,809 --> 00:01:23,989
You guys are so famous?
40
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,160
You,
41
00:01:24,169 --> 00:01:25,769
you should just go by a simple,
42
00:01:25,779 --> 00:01:27,680
that's what I think we're not quite there yet.
43
00:01:27,730 --> 00:01:27,860
The,
44
00:01:28,209 --> 00:01:34,879
the artist formerly known as the podcast known as Oh my gosh.
45
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:35,360
OK.
46
00:01:35,370 --> 00:01:36,019
So,
47
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:36,300
yeah,
48
00:01:36,309 --> 00:01:37,040
what a start.
49
00:01:37,050 --> 00:01:39,559
So we're already going down the rabbit hole.
50
00:01:39,569 --> 00:01:40,949
This is again,
51
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I will this up.
52
00:01:42,370 --> 00:01:45,190
So we're talking about storytelling in,
53
00:01:45,199 --> 00:01:46,290
in books and in publishing.
54
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And we actually have uh a guest a little later on.
55
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We'll have RJ King who is the editor in chief of the business magazine of our media.
56
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And I will tell you from my notes,
57
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:08,029
our media is the largest publisher of city and regional magazines in the United States as well as a multimedia production and digital distribution company.
58
00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:09,929
So this is big time.
59
00:02:09,940 --> 00:02:10,089
Yeah.
60
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:10,990
Yeah,
61
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:11,470
he's,
62
00:02:11,479 --> 00:02:11,630
yeah,
63
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:12,490
he's a heavy hitter.
64
00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:13,220
He's a heavy hitter.
65
00:02:13,229 --> 00:02:15,839
So uh we're all authors.
66
00:02:15,850 --> 00:02:19,080
We're all been uh we've been self published,
67
00:02:19,089 --> 00:02:20,029
we've been with,
68
00:02:20,039 --> 00:02:21,610
with uh major publishers,
69
00:02:21,619 --> 00:02:22,720
independent publishers.
70
00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:26,500
So it'll be interesting uh because we've all had different experiences there.
71
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But I I open with this for your consideration.
72
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So how long have books been around?
73
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I mean,
74
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originally books starting in the middle ages were handwritten by monks.
75
00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:44,619
And uh it wasn't until Gutenberg,
76
00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:46,029
I think it was like 15,
77
00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:53,229
17 adapted movable type from the Chinese and the Koreans.
78
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And you could actually mass produce books.
79
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And the significance of that is that regular people now were given portable knowledge.
80
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Think about that,
81
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think about that access,
82
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access to knowledge.
83
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So it wasn't just for the elite anymore.
84
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And now regular people could have access to that knowledge and it was portable,
85
00:03:18,119 --> 00:03:20,070
you could take that you could take that with you.
86
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:20,440
So,
87
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you know,
88
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knowledge is power if you knew how to read,
89
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if you knew how to read,
90
00:03:24,479 --> 00:03:25,070
right?
91
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:32,789
So all of a sudden now you've got this acceleration in learning and reading because it was access to knowledge,
92
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:33,139
what's going,
93
00:03:33,570 --> 00:03:34,869
what's going through my mind is,
94
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you know,
95
00:03:35,089 --> 00:03:36,229
before it was all handwritten,
96
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everything had to be handwritten as far as a book or content you mentioned about the Gutenberg Press and it became mass production at that time.
97
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What was that like?
98
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Versus one copy per,
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per book.
100
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There is now 10 that the good word press or five,
101
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whatever that number.
102
00:03:51,809 --> 00:03:51,940
But,
103
00:03:51,949 --> 00:03:53,630
but either way it was a bigger number,
104
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right?
105
00:03:53,970 --> 00:03:55,240
And I don't know what that volume is.
106
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But um it,
107
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it allowed people access and I think that's the biggest thing is access to information,
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access to information.
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And now all of a sudden there are authors,
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you know,
111
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you know,
112
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the first,
113
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the,
114
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the biggest translated work was the Bible.
115
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That's what the monks were.
116
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I was working on and they were working on,
117
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you know,
118
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religious text and,
119
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and manuscript.
120
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But now,
121
00:04:18,489 --> 00:04:18,690
you know,
122
00:04:18,700 --> 00:04:20,529
now you've got movable type and it's a,
123
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it's a business because before uh they were doing that for the kings and queens and the elite,
124
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we have,
125
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you know,
126
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having these books hand done and then passed on from generation to generation.
127
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Now you had uh you had books that were accessible to the general public,
128
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they were cheaper.
129
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,269
And now there's a whole,
130
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I wonder which King went to Gutenberg first and said,
131
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hey,
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let's do a publishing deal,
133
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right?
134
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:46,329
Publish,
135
00:04:46,339 --> 00:04:47,589
publish my biography.
136
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,720
Will you do that for me or follow the money?
137
00:04:49,730 --> 00:04:50,000
I mean,
138
00:04:50,010 --> 00:04:50,329
really,
139
00:04:50,339 --> 00:04:51,130
I bet if you,
140
00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:54,269
if you followed all the traditional presses and,
141
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,709
and publishers and you followed it all the way back,
142
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,489
it would be,
143
00:04:57,820 --> 00:04:58,010
you know,
144
00:04:58,019 --> 00:05:00,790
whoever bankrolled that because I'm sure it wasn't cheap to,
145
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:01,070
to,
146
00:05:01,089 --> 00:05:01,119
to,
147
00:05:01,850 --> 00:05:03,549
to build the press and,
148
00:05:03,559 --> 00:05:04,329
and to do that and,
149
00:05:04,339 --> 00:05:04,690
you know,
150
00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:11,559
it probably was in all the major cities started the major cities and then smaller presses moving out and that wasn't just books.
151
00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:11,760
I mean,
152
00:05:11,769 --> 00:05:12,839
so once they did that,
153
00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:13,869
that now you had,
154
00:05:14,119 --> 00:05:14,320
you know,
155
00:05:14,329 --> 00:05:15,220
newspapers,
156
00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:16,160
now you had,
157
00:05:16,170 --> 00:05:16,299
you know,
158
00:05:16,309 --> 00:05:17,350
magazines,
159
00:05:17,359 --> 00:05:17,929
you had,
160
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:18,700
you know,
161
00:05:18,859 --> 00:05:20,320
all those things you gotta remember,
162
00:05:20,329 --> 00:05:20,660
like,
163
00:05:20,670 --> 00:05:20,959
um,
164
00:05:20,970 --> 00:05:22,359
the printing presses.
165
00:05:22,369 --> 00:05:24,720
What were they originally created for anyways?
166
00:05:24,730 --> 00:05:25,839
And it wasn't just books.
167
00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:27,100
It was for money.
168
00:05:27,739 --> 00:05:27,899
Mm.
169
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:28,540
Yeah.
170
00:05:28,570 --> 00:05:28,579
Oh,
171
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:29,589
they were printing money?
172
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:30,269
Of course.
173
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I mean,
174
00:05:30,809 --> 00:05:31,309
you don't,
175
00:05:31,910 --> 00:05:33,269
that's probably the biggest thing.
176
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:33,440
I mean,
177
00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:35,489
without the money you're not gonna be able to buy the books.
178
00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:35,760
So,
179
00:05:35,769 --> 00:05:36,029
I don't.
180
00:05:36,670 --> 00:05:36,839
So,
181
00:05:36,850 --> 00:05:37,899
the chicken and the egg thing,
182
00:05:37,910 --> 00:05:38,079
right.
183
00:05:38,089 --> 00:05:39,190
Which one came first?
184
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The money or the books?
185
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Well,
186
00:05:41,179 --> 00:05:43,209
we're gonna get RJ on the phone and,
187
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uh,
188
00:05:43,239 --> 00:05:48,410
we'd love to hear his perspective because he's a guy that's in the industry,
189
00:05:48,420 --> 00:05:51,579
he's been in the industry for decades.
190
00:05:51,589 --> 00:05:57,170
So he's been in it when things were hot in print,
191
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you still had newspapers.
192
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It wasn't,
193
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everything wasn't digital.
194
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I mean,
195
00:06:01,429 --> 00:06:02,359
RJ started,
196
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you know,
197
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he's of our era.
198
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So when he started,
199
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you know,
200
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uh,
201
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print in magazines and newspapers and books was still a thing and then you've,
202
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you know,
203
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you've heard of the slow death.
204
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So I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about,
205
00:06:18,510 --> 00:06:18,660
you know,
206
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what it was like,
207
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you know,
208
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in the eighties and beyond.
209
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And then what is it now?
210
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I mean,
211
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are people even reading anymore?
212
00:06:24,779 --> 00:06:26,410
He's also an amazing author.
213
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:26,959
Yeah.
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00:06:26,970 --> 00:06:27,279
And there,
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00:06:27,290 --> 00:06:27,380
yeah,
216
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there you go.
217
00:06:28,529 --> 00:06:29,299
Hey RJ,
218
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it's Joseph.
219
00:06:30,170 --> 00:06:31,450
We were Steve and Kurt.
220
00:06:31,459 --> 00:06:32,829
Uh great to have you on.
221
00:06:33,290 --> 00:06:35,779
We gave you a lovely intro already.
222
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You've been,
223
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your ears are probably burning.
224
00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:44,250
Uh We're talking about your role as editor in chief of the business magazine as a part of our media.
225
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And you're,
226
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have you on because you are an author,
227
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you are an editor,
228
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you are a chief bottle washer and cap caper in the publishing industry.
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So,
230
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what we were talking about and we'd like to get your perspective on is we were talking about,
231
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you know,
232
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the history of,
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of print and publishing and it was all,
234
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you know,
235
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it was all ink and paper and now we've moved from ink and paper into digital and,
236
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uh,
237
00:07:11,679 --> 00:07:12,869
and what does that look like?
238
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Are people reading less or are they reading differently?
239
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And,
240
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uh,
241
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you know,
242
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what,
243
00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:20,420
what's your take on that?
244
00:07:20,429 --> 00:07:22,920
What's your take on sort of your history?
245
00:07:22,929 --> 00:07:23,089
You know,
246
00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:28,149
it'd be good to get a little bit about when you started in the industry and what it was like,
247
00:07:28,399 --> 00:07:28,410
uh,
248
00:07:28,429 --> 00:07:30,640
transitioning to where you are today.
249
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I mean,
250
00:07:30,890 --> 00:07:31,059
what,
251
00:07:31,070 --> 00:07:34,760
what have you seen in the industry over the past decades?
252
00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:37,380
What I started in journalism,
253
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I was a business writer for the Detroit News and we had a huge,
254
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uh,
255
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business staff,
256
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uh,
257
00:07:45,269 --> 00:07:47,549
probably 16 people,
258
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including editors,
259
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:50,899
uh,
260
00:07:50,910 --> 00:07:52,890
and slowly over time that,
261
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uh,
262
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:53,750
just got,
263
00:07:54,179 --> 00:08:00,679
uh widowed down and there's probably maybe seven or eight of the Detroit news these days,
264
00:08:00,690 --> 00:08:01,700
I'm just guessing.
265
00:08:02,619 --> 00:08:02,640
Uh,
266
00:08:02,649 --> 00:08:09,899
but with computers to becoming much more prominent and access to information much,
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uh,
268
00:08:09,929 --> 00:08:12,500
more quickly when the information age,
269
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uh,
270
00:08:13,859 --> 00:08:16,329
people are looking to get their content,
271
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uh,
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much quicker and faster and,
273
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and online.
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00:08:22,429 --> 00:08:24,350
So the good news is,
275
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there's still plenty of journalists around,
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um,
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whether they're working full time or,
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00:08:29,559 --> 00:08:29,570
uh,
279
00:08:29,589 --> 00:08:32,719
many of them are retired and working part time.
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00:08:32,729 --> 00:08:35,190
So there's a lot of tribal knowledge and,
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uh,
282
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those folks,
283
00:08:36,739 --> 00:08:36,950
um,
284
00:08:38,219 --> 00:08:39,630
pretty much like to stay active,
285
00:08:40,549 --> 00:08:40,828
uh,
286
00:08:40,838 --> 00:08:43,458
writing in a feature once or twice a month.
287
00:08:43,468 --> 00:08:43,739
Um,
288
00:08:43,749 --> 00:08:48,179
what it's for the business or our Detroit or,
289
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:48,719
you know,
290
00:08:48,729 --> 00:08:49,140
any,
291
00:08:49,969 --> 00:08:49,989
uh,
292
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:57,359
newspaper magazine or online publication and as well,
293
00:08:57,369 --> 00:08:58,200
you have,
294
00:08:58,409 --> 00:08:58,719
you know,
295
00:08:58,729 --> 00:09:06,250
a lot more smaller stories that tell people very quickly what's going on and those are great for your smartphones.
296
00:09:06,260 --> 00:09:07,840
But if you're looking for a deep dive,
297
00:09:08,909 --> 00:09:11,770
uh say a feature story on General Motors,
298
00:09:12,099 --> 00:09:14,400
very hard to read that on the phone.
299
00:09:15,159 --> 00:09:18,229
Uh especially if there's charts and graphs that go with it.
300
00:09:18,239 --> 00:09:18,630
So,
301
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:20,090
Prince is a great,
302
00:09:20,099 --> 00:09:21,760
still a great medium for that.
303
00:09:22,179 --> 00:09:27,729
And uh Prince is uh it's very mobile uh as well.
304
00:09:27,929 --> 00:09:29,859
So it's great for airplanes,
305
00:09:29,869 --> 00:09:35,440
driving in cars and uh waiting in doctors lounges and those types of things.
306
00:09:36,250 --> 00:09:41,440
But I think overall the news is coming in quicker and faster and there's smaller bites of it.
307
00:09:42,190 --> 00:09:51,599
Uh but there's also the in depth pieces uh in depth features out there that uh that are still enjoyed in print.
308
00:09:51,869 --> 00:09:52,270
Yeah.
309
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:52,729
So,
310
00:09:52,739 --> 00:09:58,869
so it sounds like what I'm hearing you say is though the format has changed.
311
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,630
So uh people want their news or,
312
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,469
or facts quickly,
313
00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:05,669
they want it quickly and that,
314
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,989
that seems to be they're accessing in,
315
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,150
in digital formats on their,
316
00:10:10,159 --> 00:10:12,369
on their phones or ipads or whatever.
317
00:10:12,380 --> 00:10:16,539
Um but when they want to do a deeper dive and then when they really want more of a,
318
00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:28,940
an in depth story that that books and print are still uh are still a valid mechanism and they're getting it in many other different places as well.
319
00:10:30,059 --> 00:10:30,469
What do you,
320
00:10:30,479 --> 00:10:31,070
what do you mean?
321
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:31,770
Well,
322
00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:32,049
I mean,
323
00:10:32,059 --> 00:10:34,049
the content can be found in search,
324
00:10:34,059 --> 00:10:35,530
it can be on RSS feeds,
325
00:10:35,539 --> 00:10:37,090
which we can talk about later.
326
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:37,909
But I mean,
327
00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:38,390
it's,
328
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:39,609
there's ways of being able to,
329
00:10:39,820 --> 00:10:44,210
for people to be able to subscribe to certain things right now digitally.
330
00:10:44,289 --> 00:10:47,309
And so you get notified on whatever device you're using,
331
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,890
whether it's a phone or whether it's a browser or whatever,
332
00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:50,159
it's like,
333
00:10:50,169 --> 00:10:50,289
hey,
334
00:10:50,299 --> 00:10:51,789
here's a new article from,
335
00:10:52,010 --> 00:10:52,250
you know,
336
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:54,250
our magazine or the business.
337
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:54,719
So now,
338
00:10:54,729 --> 00:10:55,419
now,
339
00:10:55,510 --> 00:11:01,619
now content and information is being pushed based upon your customized interests.
340
00:11:02,010 --> 00:11:02,299
Well,
341
00:11:02,309 --> 00:11:02,700
I think,
342
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:02,739
and,
343
00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:03,710
and this is Curt RJ,
344
00:11:03,719 --> 00:11:04,780
it's so great having you on.
345
00:11:04,789 --> 00:11:05,520
I can tell you that.
346
00:11:05,530 --> 00:11:07,739
I think it's more from the digital side.
347
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:08,969
I think it's headlines.
348
00:11:08,979 --> 00:11:14,330
I really think that's what's being marketed and pushed is headlines and then it might go a little bit deeper,
349
00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:15,619
right on the digital side.
350
00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:20,159
People are reading headlines first and then deciding if they want to read any content that's in there.
351
00:11:20,390 --> 00:11:20,890
But RJ,
352
00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:22,520
I guess one of the questions I have is,
353
00:11:22,530 --> 00:11:23,799
is I think there's,
354
00:11:23,809 --> 00:11:24,020
you know,
355
00:11:24,030 --> 00:11:25,299
because I still like paper,
356
00:11:25,309 --> 00:11:27,580
I still like having like a magazine or something like a,
357
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:29,450
a great magazine like B Business or,
358
00:11:29,460 --> 00:11:30,539
or like our Detroit,
359
00:11:30,619 --> 00:11:33,010
our magazine where I can still pick it up.
360
00:11:33,020 --> 00:11:33,919
There's images,
361
00:11:33,929 --> 00:11:34,780
there's graphs,
362
00:11:34,789 --> 00:11:39,200
there's different things in there that is hard to digest and it's hard to,
363
00:11:39,419 --> 00:11:40,000
I guess,
364
00:11:40,010 --> 00:11:42,719
fully enjoy on a digital side.
365
00:11:42,729 --> 00:11:43,039
So there,
366
00:11:43,049 --> 00:11:44,909
there's still a need for that is what you're finding.
367
00:11:44,919 --> 00:11:45,419
Correct.
368
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:45,969
Oh,
369
00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:46,200
yeah,
370
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,119
I mean,
371
00:11:47,130 --> 00:11:49,979
the uh descriptions we have are,
372
00:11:50,239 --> 00:11:58,500
are still very strong and we have great distribution for the doctor's offices or the Skyline clubs.
373
00:11:58,510 --> 00:11:59,039
Um,
374
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,630
high traffic lobbies,
375
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,210
country clubs anywhere where people are,
376
00:12:04,219 --> 00:12:05,530
uh have time on their hands,
377
00:12:05,539 --> 00:12:07,609
looking to relax and,
378
00:12:07,619 --> 00:12:08,460
and books,
379
00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:09,710
uh you know,
380
00:12:10,309 --> 00:12:15,539
physical books are still dominating over uh what you would call E readers.
381
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,200
So,
382
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,599
uh there are e readers out there and,
383
00:12:21,210 --> 00:12:21,409
you know,
384
00:12:21,419 --> 00:12:23,179
Kindle and those types of formats.
385
00:12:23,419 --> 00:12:28,380
Uh but people uh still predominantly prefer a physical book as well.
386
00:12:28,390 --> 00:12:32,820
I think that uh partly that uh you know,
387
00:12:32,830 --> 00:12:35,359
they just want some downtime and uh you know,
388
00:12:35,369 --> 00:12:38,039
if you stay on the computer or on your phone for too long,
389
00:12:38,049 --> 00:12:40,169
you can just drive yourself right.
390
00:12:40,179 --> 00:12:40,320
And,
391
00:12:40,330 --> 00:12:41,700
and that to your point too,
392
00:12:41,710 --> 00:12:41,719
I,
393
00:12:41,729 --> 00:12:44,309
I pulled some sta statistics uh down this line.
394
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,219
These are publishing net revenues and other,
395
00:12:46,229 --> 00:12:49,059
these are from the publishers themselves for books,
396
00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:50,059
the net revenue.
397
00:12:50,070 --> 00:12:51,659
If you look at the last 10 years,
398
00:12:51,669 --> 00:12:51,739
it,
399
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:52,059
it's,
400
00:12:52,070 --> 00:12:54,039
it's not changed drastically.
401
00:12:54,049 --> 00:12:55,210
Like in 2013,
402
00:12:55,219 --> 00:12:59,979
it was approximately 27 billion in 2022 is 28 billion.
403
00:12:59,989 --> 00:13:01,719
And then there's a little dip in between there,
404
00:13:01,729 --> 00:13:04,020
but it's really kind of remained consistent.
405
00:13:04,030 --> 00:13:09,580
And that was surprising to me because I thought it'd be a more of a major drop in the publishing world to understand that.
406
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:10,570
But it sounds like there's still,
407
00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:11,099
like you said,
408
00:13:11,109 --> 00:13:13,039
there's people want physical books,
409
00:13:13,049 --> 00:13:16,000
they want physical publishing according to the net revenue.
410
00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:20,760
My side table seems to tell me that I like books.
411
00:13:21,539 --> 00:13:23,309
Most of them are from Joseph though.
412
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,530
But uh and I have,
413
00:13:27,539 --> 00:13:29,260
I have a bunch of RJ S there as well,
414
00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:31,000
which I've read eight track being one of them,
415
00:13:31,010 --> 00:13:32,369
which is a great book.
416
00:13:32,619 --> 00:13:34,609
But um and you got another one coming out,
417
00:13:34,619 --> 00:13:35,229
right RJ.
418
00:13:35,239 --> 00:13:36,989
You got something else coming out here soon.
419
00:13:37,890 --> 00:13:38,750
I was uh yeah,
420
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,070
just after Labor Day,
421
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:54,119
a book called Taboo which tells the story of it's the life story of Nino re uh and focusing in on uh one of his clubs and restaurants that he owns called Club Taboo,
422
00:13:54,469 --> 00:13:55,130
which was,
423
00:13:55,849 --> 00:14:01,340
and the East River Front of Detroit from 1985 to 1995.
424
00:14:01,349 --> 00:14:04,520
And it was kind of like the studio 54 of Detroit.
425
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:11,750
And you had such things as Cinemax doing a tape show called James Brown and Friends,
426
00:14:12,669 --> 00:14:20,059
which included AAA one hour show with James Brown and Aretha Franklin,
427
00:14:20,070 --> 00:14:20,840
Robert Palmer,
428
00:14:20,849 --> 00:14:26,940
Joe Cocker Wilson Pickett and um a few other stars.
429
00:14:26,950 --> 00:14:28,440
And uh you know,
430
00:14:28,549 --> 00:14:29,909
Prince Madonna,
431
00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:31,349
uh you know,
432
00:14:31,359 --> 00:14:31,690
Sheila,
433
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:31,869
he,
434
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,070
they all came through that club because uh after their shows,
435
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,429
they were looking for something to do and invariably people wound up there.
436
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,299
So it was a,
437
00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:44,820
a huge hit in quite a dynamic time in Detroit.
438
00:14:44,830 --> 00:14:48,210
A few stories I would imagine that came along with that.
439
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:48,700
I have,
440
00:14:49,109 --> 00:14:52,150
I have a few stories we heard about those.
441
00:14:52,559 --> 00:14:53,469
I wonder if in the book.
442
00:14:53,950 --> 00:14:54,260
No,
443
00:14:54,479 --> 00:14:54,710
no.
444
00:14:56,049 --> 00:14:56,539
So,
445
00:14:56,549 --> 00:14:57,369
so I think this is,
446
00:14:57,380 --> 00:14:59,179
this is a good segue to RJ.
447
00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:59,570
I mean,
448
00:14:59,580 --> 00:14:59,739
you,
449
00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:00,940
you are an author,
450
00:15:00,950 --> 00:15:02,280
you are a writer and I,
451
00:15:02,289 --> 00:15:02,659
you know,
452
00:15:02,669 --> 00:15:11,739
I'm very interested in talking to you about what the impact of traditional publishing to,
453
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:12,219
you know,
454
00:15:12,229 --> 00:15:15,700
the digit digitization of media.
455
00:15:15,710 --> 00:15:16,799
Say that three times fast,
456
00:15:16,809 --> 00:15:19,280
easy for you to say uh it was not,
457
00:15:19,309 --> 00:15:20,750
I can take a deep breath after that.
458
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,469
Um But I really,
459
00:15:22,479 --> 00:15:25,000
really interested in getting your perspective as an author,
460
00:15:25,239 --> 00:15:27,130
uh what your experience is and,
461
00:15:27,140 --> 00:15:28,369
and a publisher as well.
462
00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:28,809
So,
463
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:29,130
you know,
464
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:31,690
you've published in many different formats.
465
00:15:31,979 --> 00:15:33,219
Um where,
466
00:15:33,229 --> 00:15:34,299
where are your challenges?
467
00:15:34,309 --> 00:15:35,630
Because this is funny,
468
00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:37,280
the terminology has changed.
469
00:15:37,289 --> 00:15:38,979
So you hear,
470
00:15:38,989 --> 00:15:40,469
still hear the word author,
471
00:15:40,479 --> 00:15:49,309
but there's also the word content creator because now the the things that we write is are now called content because it,
472
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,520
it's our written word is not just being used in print,
473
00:15:52,530 --> 00:15:54,700
it's being used in many different spaces,
474
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:56,820
it's being used digitally and,
475
00:15:56,830 --> 00:15:57,780
and other areas.
476
00:15:57,789 --> 00:15:58,369
So now like,
477
00:15:58,380 --> 00:15:59,950
not only are you if you're an author,
478
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:01,020
you're a content creator,
479
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,099
intellectual property as well.
480
00:16:04,549 --> 00:16:04,979
So,
481
00:16:04,989 --> 00:16:05,760
so a you know,
482
00:16:05,770 --> 00:16:06,869
what's your take on that as a,
483
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,710
as a writer and as an author and now as a content creator,
484
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:11,719
um you know,
485
00:16:11,729 --> 00:16:14,000
does that open up more opportunities.
486
00:16:14,010 --> 00:16:15,690
Does it present more challenges?
487
00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:16,299
You know,
488
00:16:16,309 --> 00:16:17,479
what have you seen?
489
00:16:19,549 --> 00:16:19,700
Well,
490
00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:21,799
I think it does open up more opportunities.
491
00:16:21,809 --> 00:16:22,320
Um,
492
00:16:22,359 --> 00:16:25,669
so more things you can come out with,
493
00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:28,960
it's just like anything is if you stay busy,
494
00:16:28,969 --> 00:16:35,789
uh you're going to be busy because people will gravitate to your work.
495
00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:36,299
Um,
496
00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:38,729
and you know,
497
00:16:38,739 --> 00:16:39,789
a thing that's,
498
00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:39,809
uh,
499
00:16:39,820 --> 00:16:46,349
is emerging now is um these sort of online,
500
00:16:46,359 --> 00:16:46,690
um,
501
00:16:48,119 --> 00:16:49,190
digital services,
502
00:16:49,200 --> 00:17:04,010
but I'm referring specifically to something like chat GCP uh where they are just uh combing the internet for uh information based on a query from uh uh a user.
503
00:17:05,198 --> 00:17:06,208
Unfortunately,
504
00:17:06,218 --> 00:17:12,088
the uh service does not distinguish between uh copyrights and un copyrighted material.
505
00:17:12,098 --> 00:17:16,588
And now you're starting to see lawsuits pop up because,
506
00:17:16,598 --> 00:17:16,928
um,
507
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:26,660
the service is pulling from copyrighted material and uh the authors or content uh uh owners if you will,
508
00:17:27,060 --> 00:17:29,410
aren't getting any revenue derived from that.
509
00:17:29,420 --> 00:17:32,050
Um And it is a violation of copyright laws.
510
00:17:32,349 --> 00:17:34,949
So that's an interesting thing to follow.
511
00:17:34,959 --> 00:17:35,520
I think,
512
00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:37,530
uh for your listeners,
513
00:17:38,199 --> 00:17:38,800
um,
514
00:17:38,890 --> 00:17:39,119
you know,
515
00:17:39,130 --> 00:17:41,560
I think services like are,
516
00:17:41,569 --> 00:17:45,619
are good for internal things that are public facing.
517
00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:47,619
But uh if you're trying to,
518
00:17:47,630 --> 00:17:49,359
um use that to,
519
00:17:49,369 --> 00:17:55,109
to write a white paper or publish a brochure uh or,
520
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:55,400
you know,
521
00:17:55,410 --> 00:18:00,219
get literature out uh and hand it out during conferences and things like that,
522
00:18:00,530 --> 00:18:11,410
that could definitely come back to bite you if you're not careful in terms of uh how the information is being sourced and uh you could open yourself up to um to copyright matters.
523
00:18:11,859 --> 00:18:16,410
The other thing that books provide um is content for,
524
00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:19,880
for movies and uh TV series and,
525
00:18:20,089 --> 00:18:23,510
and all those types of things that um you know,
526
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:28,199
because Hollywood in general is uh always looking for good content.
527
00:18:29,069 --> 00:18:37,750
So uh writing your next book and getting it um published and uh it's very easy now these days to,
528
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,030
to get your book uploaded on uh Amazon and,
529
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:43,040
and get your sales going.
530
00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:49,369
And uh the other great thing is you don't have with Amazon and other services like that.
531
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:52,060
You don't have um books sitting in a warehouse.
532
00:18:52,069 --> 00:18:56,589
It's all on books on demand and as well for the authors,
533
00:18:56,599 --> 00:19:05,560
they provide a steep discount or a wholesale price if you will and uh they'll ship them um all over the United States.
534
00:19:05,569 --> 00:19:10,109
So if you're in Detroit and speaking at a conference in Denver,
535
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,099
uh you could have the books arrive uh shipped to Denver,
536
00:19:14,109 --> 00:19:14,430
you know,
537
00:19:14,439 --> 00:19:15,880
and each um you know,
538
00:19:15,890 --> 00:19:17,900
let's say you're speaking to 250 people,
539
00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:20,329
they each have a copy of your book right there.
540
00:19:20,339 --> 00:19:27,219
You don't have to log in on the airplane and log in from the hotel and all that good stuff be shipped right to the Convention Center.
541
00:19:28,050 --> 00:19:38,719
And um so there's all different ways that you can um maximize on demand uh uh book publishing uh to your advantages.
542
00:19:38,729 --> 00:19:39,339
And up there,
543
00:19:40,489 --> 00:19:41,319
which uh you know,
544
00:19:41,329 --> 00:19:46,819
wasn't available really because I'm not gonna take 250 books in my carry on bag.
545
00:19:46,829 --> 00:19:49,780
I know that Delta will kill you.
546
00:19:50,479 --> 00:19:53,810
They'll kill my personal item that would be heavy.
547
00:19:54,979 --> 00:19:55,650
So RJ,
548
00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:55,670
I,
549
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:56,369
I have another,
550
00:19:56,380 --> 00:19:56,660
I have a,
551
00:19:56,670 --> 00:19:59,619
I have another question for you along those lines.
552
00:19:59,630 --> 00:20:00,410
Um So,
553
00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:00,709
I mean,
554
00:20:00,719 --> 00:20:04,540
you are uh a leader in the publishing industry.
555
00:20:04,550 --> 00:20:09,719
Where do you think the industry is going and will it survive in its current form?
556
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:10,530
Well,
557
00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:14,410
I think it's moving uh a little bit more,
558
00:20:14,420 --> 00:20:14,589
you know,
559
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:16,750
very tiny bit each day to digital.
560
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:21,160
Uh but people are living longer and uh you know,
561
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:26,699
we're um our media LLC we're in 12 different states and Florida is the best state.
562
00:20:27,579 --> 00:20:29,589
Uh It does get a little older.
563
00:20:30,339 --> 00:20:33,890
Um a lot of retirees and people that have,
564
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:34,520
uh you know,
565
00:20:34,530 --> 00:20:36,010
sort of made it with time on their hands.
566
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:37,270
So not only magazines,
567
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:42,250
but the books are a very uh excellent state for that market.
568
00:20:44,060 --> 00:20:49,709
And I think eventually you'll see people develop um Polygraphs so that,
569
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:50,510
uh you know,
570
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,430
you could check things on a wall,
571
00:20:52,439 --> 00:20:52,650
say,
572
00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:53,540
for instance,
573
00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:53,599
uh a,
574
00:20:53,650 --> 00:20:56,410
a recipe that you might be working on,
575
00:20:57,130 --> 00:21:02,180
uh that uh literally will float above your kitchen stove and oven.
576
00:21:03,109 --> 00:21:04,180
Um or,
577
00:21:04,189 --> 00:21:04,459
you know,
578
00:21:04,469 --> 00:21:12,670
if you're outside trying to learn how to uh hit a ball off a tea uh for T ball uh baseball,
579
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,030
uh if you could have the instructions right there in front of you.
580
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:16,380
Um,
581
00:21:16,449 --> 00:21:21,689
and I would foresee that there would be some sort of a tie in with your phone,
582
00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:22,410
um,
583
00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:22,920
or,
584
00:21:23,939 --> 00:21:25,689
or an ancillary device and,
585
00:21:25,699 --> 00:21:25,709
uh,
586
00:21:25,719 --> 00:21:28,500
it would speak to you and,
587
00:21:28,510 --> 00:21:28,569
uh,
588
00:21:28,579 --> 00:21:29,520
with a camera,
589
00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:29,660
it,
590
00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:33,119
it could even track how you're doing in terms of swinging the bat.
591
00:21:33,849 --> 00:21:33,869
Uh,
592
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:34,900
it could be golf.
593
00:21:34,910 --> 00:21:34,939
It,
594
00:21:34,949 --> 00:21:36,579
it could be horseback riding,
595
00:21:36,589 --> 00:21:38,089
it could be so many different things.
596
00:21:38,099 --> 00:21:38,300
So,
597
00:21:39,540 --> 00:21:40,739
uh those things haven't,
598
00:21:41,199 --> 00:21:42,589
have not been invented yet.
599
00:21:43,189 --> 00:21:45,920
Um But certainly everybody recalls seeing,
600
00:21:46,650 --> 00:21:53,310
uh from the first Star Wars movie when Princess Leia popped up as a holograph part of R two D two.
601
00:21:53,949 --> 00:21:55,670
Uh So I think that's the future.
602
00:21:56,020 --> 00:21:56,540
Uh,
603
00:21:57,050 --> 00:21:57,410
you know,
604
00:21:57,420 --> 00:22:04,410
in the beginning you'll be able to send messages like that and then in time it'll be more of a back and forth conversation with,
605
00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:04,449
uh,
606
00:22:04,459 --> 00:22:04,869
you know,
607
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,410
say a resident expert and,
608
00:22:06,819 --> 00:22:08,770
and say gardening or something like that.
609
00:22:08,780 --> 00:22:08,900
Yeah.
610
00:22:09,439 --> 00:22:09,640
Well,
611
00:22:09,650 --> 00:22:09,959
that's,
612
00:22:09,969 --> 00:22:10,260
I mean,
613
00:22:10,270 --> 00:22:11,280
that's fascinating.
614
00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:14,959
So if you pull that thread all the way through,
615
00:22:14,969 --> 00:22:16,420
because I'm always thinking like,
616
00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:16,760
ok,
617
00:22:16,770 --> 00:22:17,069
we're,
618
00:22:17,079 --> 00:22:20,719
we're all authors and writers and this goes back to that,
619
00:22:20,729 --> 00:22:20,839
the,
620
00:22:20,849 --> 00:22:30,479
the term content creator because someone's still gonna have to create those stories or create those instructions or whatever.
621
00:22:30,489 --> 00:22:30,780
So,
622
00:22:30,790 --> 00:22:30,979
you know,
623
00:22:30,989 --> 00:22:32,180
maybe that's the,
624
00:22:32,189 --> 00:22:33,500
like what you're saying,
625
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,770
that's really the future of,
626
00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:36,439
you know,
627
00:22:36,449 --> 00:22:36,859
how,
628
00:22:36,869 --> 00:22:38,219
how do journalists and,
629
00:22:38,589 --> 00:22:45,150
and writers and authors stay in business they stay in business by uh creating content and,
630
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,550
and creating the stories regardless of what the new medium is,
631
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:55,109
maybe the future of reading is going to change.
632
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:56,489
What do you mean?
633
00:22:57,609 --> 00:23:00,869
Maybe instead of reading left to right or right to left,
634
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,319
depending upon whether you're here in China or whatever.
635
00:23:03,569 --> 00:23:04,739
Maybe that goes away.
636
00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:07,250
Have you ever seen those little widgets that says,
637
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:07,339
yeah,
638
00:23:07,349 --> 00:23:08,099
you want to read,
639
00:23:08,109 --> 00:23:08,300
you know,
640
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:15,140
like 1000 words a minute and it pops up one word at a time and it puts them in front of your eyes and all of a sudden you're reading at that speed.
641
00:23:15,150 --> 00:23:18,040
Have you seen those little widgets had a speed reading class?
642
00:23:18,050 --> 00:23:18,800
So I took it.
643
00:23:18,939 --> 00:23:20,420
But this is beyond that.
644
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:21,359
This is literally,
645
00:23:21,369 --> 00:23:22,540
it introduces,
646
00:23:22,550 --> 00:23:31,560
introduces to you one word at a time and your brain has the capabilities of being able to read at extremely high rate.
647
00:23:31,849 --> 00:23:37,359
And the reason we can is because it's the mechanical process of moving our eyes across the page.
648
00:23:37,369 --> 00:23:39,660
And because my dyslexia is,
649
00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:45,959
was actually caused because of my eyes because what would happen is my eyes were misaligned and they would actually,
650
00:23:46,060 --> 00:23:46,390
you know,
651
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,699
blend together words.
652
00:23:47,709 --> 00:23:49,599
So it wasn't really kind of dyslexia.
653
00:23:49,609 --> 00:23:52,589
It's the mechanical process of how I was reading.
654
00:23:52,849 --> 00:23:52,949
Well,
655
00:23:52,959 --> 00:23:55,000
imagine if in the future that changes.
656
00:23:55,410 --> 00:23:58,760
So it's the new Evelyn Wood Speed reading course,
657
00:23:58,910 --> 00:24:01,780
but someone's got to write that no one knows who that is.
658
00:24:04,229 --> 00:24:04,979
RJ.
659
00:24:04,989 --> 00:24:05,790
RJ we,
660
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:20,939
we really appreciate your time today and uh just so sort of enclosing uh what's the best advice you could give to a budding writer or journalist or someone who wants to get into the publishing industry.
661
00:24:21,959 --> 00:24:22,329
Well,
662
00:24:22,339 --> 00:24:23,089
number one,
663
00:24:23,099 --> 00:24:30,400
I would uh jump on Amazon and um their book publishing division uh KDP.
664
00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:32,719
And uh you know,
665
00:24:32,729 --> 00:24:43,189
there's nice instructional videos there that teach you uh exactly how to um you load a book up on to Amazon.
666
00:24:43,199 --> 00:24:47,790
So at least you have that background uh in terms of writing a book,
667
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:53,280
uh I found the best way is to first come up with the chapters.
668
00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:54,130
Uh you know,
669
00:24:54,140 --> 00:24:56,959
you wanna write about the history of,
670
00:24:56,969 --> 00:24:58,540
say the Eiffel Tower.
671
00:24:58,550 --> 00:24:58,939
So you,
672
00:24:58,949 --> 00:24:59,180
you know,
673
00:24:59,189 --> 00:25:01,020
you go back in France and,
674
00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:10,949
and talk about what happened to lead to the construction of the Eiffel Tower and then how it was built and then uh disassembled and then shipped across,
675
00:25:10,959 --> 00:25:11,239
you know,
676
00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:22,369
so you can sort of see the chapters one by one sort of flow into and once you have your chapters that really gives you a great organizational uh template for writing your book,
677
00:25:22,380 --> 00:25:22,680
you know.
678
00:25:22,689 --> 00:25:23,300
So one day,
679
00:25:23,310 --> 00:25:23,589
OK,
680
00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:25,400
I'm gonna work on chapter eight and hey,
681
00:25:25,410 --> 00:25:27,900
I just had a good idea on chapter two.
682
00:25:27,910 --> 00:25:30,949
I'll jump to that and pretty soon it all comes together.
683
00:25:30,959 --> 00:25:39,819
It's a very good organizational um practice to uh come up with the chapters first and then get to know designers,
684
00:25:39,829 --> 00:25:45,150
um you can just Google images and uh for particular things that you're looking for and,
685
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:52,349
and also spend time in bookstores to look at um book covers to see what's uh what's working and what's not working.
686
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,089
You really wanna draw the reader in.
687
00:25:55,099 --> 00:25:59,089
Um instead of having a kind of a cover,
688
00:25:59,099 --> 00:25:59,670
you really,
689
00:26:00,339 --> 00:26:02,310
really want something to draw people in.
690
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,540
Um and don't be afraid to change things.
691
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:12,390
Um You could have a different cover this year and next year you could have a,
692
00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:14,900
a different cover for your book.
693
00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:17,380
Uh You could have it come out in different colors,
694
00:26:17,390 --> 00:26:19,380
uh All different types of things to,
695
00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:27,339
to drive sales additions for pink for uh Breast Awareness Month in October.
696
00:26:27,819 --> 00:26:28,530
Uh you know,
697
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:30,400
all those different types of things that,
698
00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:30,719
you know,
699
00:26:30,729 --> 00:26:32,000
something orange for Halloween,
700
00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:32,900
whatever it might be.
701
00:26:33,969 --> 00:26:43,579
Um And then really look at your properties is um really not just a book but potentially a movie or a TV series or a podcast series.
702
00:26:44,410 --> 00:26:46,180
Uh Just always thinking,
703
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:46,650
you know,
704
00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:52,400
how you can maximize uh the content you're creating by introducing it through all different mediums.
705
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:54,079
Awesome.
706
00:26:54,089 --> 00:26:55,489
I think he's saying trans media,
707
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:55,800
Joseph.
708
00:26:55,869 --> 00:26:56,060
Yes,
709
00:26:56,069 --> 00:26:56,920
I think he is.
710
00:26:57,209 --> 00:26:57,829
Well,
711
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:00,319
sage advice as always RJ,
712
00:27:00,329 --> 00:27:07,020
we appreciate your time today and your energy and your smarts and thanks for uh for being on the folk tellers.
713
00:27:08,339 --> 00:27:08,689
OK.
714
00:27:08,699 --> 00:27:08,869
Well,
715
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:09,949
thank you so much guys.
716
00:27:09,959 --> 00:27:10,829
I really appreciate it.
717
00:27:11,439 --> 00:27:12,199
We'll talk to you soon.
718
00:27:12,969 --> 00:27:15,459
Thank you take care.
719
00:27:15,890 --> 00:27:16,079
Thank you.
720
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:16,550
All right,
721
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,189
bye bye.
722
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:29,589
Well,
723
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:29,680
that,
724
00:27:29,689 --> 00:27:30,640
that was fascinating.
725
00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:34,589
I'm glad we had RJ on um a wealth of knowledge.
726
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:35,030
So he's,
727
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,599
he's got me thinking now of as writers,
728
00:27:40,609 --> 00:27:45,920
as authors and publishers of books in this modern age.
729
00:27:46,699 --> 00:27:48,510
How are we getting our stories out there?
730
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,189
How are you pulling people in?
731
00:27:51,199 --> 00:27:51,430
I mean,
732
00:27:51,439 --> 00:27:55,410
I think it's such a challenge because what I didn't get to ask RJ was,
733
00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:58,849
I really do think people are reading differently.
734
00:27:58,859 --> 00:28:00,420
I don't think people are reading less.
735
00:28:00,670 --> 00:28:01,939
I think they're reading differently.
736
00:28:01,949 --> 00:28:02,729
And for,
737
00:28:02,739 --> 00:28:02,989
like,
738
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:03,430
for me,
739
00:28:03,439 --> 00:28:04,130
like I read,
740
00:28:04,140 --> 00:28:07,359
if I'm reading a digital on a screen or on a,
741
00:28:07,369 --> 00:28:09,420
on an ipad or on my phone,
742
00:28:09,699 --> 00:28:13,339
I'm usually reading for knowledge and information.
743
00:28:13,349 --> 00:28:13,500
I'm,
744
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:15,280
I'm gathering information books.
745
00:28:15,290 --> 00:28:16,849
I'm a book person.
746
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,680
I love books.
747
00:28:18,689 --> 00:28:20,359
I love going to bookstores.
748
00:28:20,369 --> 00:28:21,819
I love spending time in there.
749
00:28:21,969 --> 00:28:22,569
If you guys,
750
00:28:22,579 --> 00:28:24,569
have you guys ever been down to John King?
751
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,280
Books?
752
00:28:25,290 --> 00:28:26,369
Down down in the city.
753
00:28:26,479 --> 00:28:27,619
So John,
754
00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:31,900
I think it's the second largest used bookstore in the United States.
755
00:28:32,339 --> 00:28:33,939
It's an old glove factory.
756
00:28:33,949 --> 00:28:39,689
It's five floors of pure literary joy.
757
00:28:39,699 --> 00:28:42,489
If you love books is to get down there.
758
00:28:44,170 --> 00:28:45,630
I actually did,
759
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:45,689
um,
760
00:28:45,699 --> 00:28:47,489
it was on the sale table.
761
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:48,930
It was just the bargain bin.
762
00:28:48,939 --> 00:28:49,209
Yeah,
763
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:50,640
it was the bargain bin.
764
00:28:50,650 --> 00:28:50,750
I,
765
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,069
I was,
766
00:28:51,819 --> 00:28:52,219
yeah,
767
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,020
there was,
768
00:28:53,329 --> 00:28:54,170
there was 10 of them.
769
00:28:54,260 --> 00:28:54,520
Yeah.
770
00:28:55,420 --> 00:28:55,930
My,
771
00:28:55,939 --> 00:28:56,569
my book,
772
00:28:56,579 --> 00:28:57,030
they just,
773
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,489
they just give them away.
774
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:00,589
Like tell them what,
775
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:01,369
what's the average,
776
00:29:01,609 --> 00:29:01,619
oh,
777
00:29:01,709 --> 00:29:01,729
yeah,
778
00:29:01,739 --> 00:29:02,239
the,
779
00:29:02,420 --> 00:29:02,599
yeah,
780
00:29:02,609 --> 00:29:06,619
the average lifetime book sales for an author.
781
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:07,369
And this is like,
782
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,180
whether you're self published or whatever,
783
00:29:09,189 --> 00:29:09,939
it's 10 books.
784
00:29:11,270 --> 00:29:11,890
I wouldn't think that.
785
00:29:12,010 --> 00:29:13,180
And that's only if you have,
786
00:29:13,189 --> 00:29:13,819
have a,
787
00:29:13,829 --> 00:29:15,939
a friendly family and relatives,
788
00:29:15,949 --> 00:29:17,640
you have enough people to buy that.
789
00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:19,609
Or is that that's bought,
790
00:29:19,949 --> 00:29:20,260
that's,
791
00:29:20,829 --> 00:29:21,130
that's bought,
792
00:29:21,209 --> 00:29:22,089
which goes back,
793
00:29:22,099 --> 00:29:26,300
I brought up one of the stats with RJ about the publishing that sales,
794
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:26,560
right?
795
00:29:26,569 --> 00:29:27,160
Annual Nets,
796
00:29:27,170 --> 00:29:29,079
I was surprised that it was basically,
797
00:29:29,089 --> 00:29:29,359
it,
798
00:29:29,369 --> 00:29:31,520
it didn't change drastically throughout the years.
799
00:29:31,530 --> 00:29:32,300
However,
800
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:34,040
the unit sales retail,
801
00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:41,619
which are the numbers of books sold to retail dropped a little bit like 325,000 annually to 2 25.
802
00:29:41,630 --> 00:29:44,119
Um But why,
803
00:29:44,130 --> 00:29:44,739
why is that?
804
00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:44,969
Yeah,
805
00:29:44,979 --> 00:29:45,510
that's the,
806
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:45,560
the,
807
00:29:45,569 --> 00:29:45,790
the,
808
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,079
you know,
809
00:29:46,089 --> 00:29:49,560
so people are still reading books but not a subs.
810
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:50,229
I mean,
811
00:29:50,270 --> 00:29:55,270
I guess one of my questions is how are publishers still making net profits that are remaining consistent?
812
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:55,770
So,
813
00:29:55,780 --> 00:29:55,949
yeah,
814
00:29:55,959 --> 00:29:57,020
this is like,
815
00:29:57,030 --> 00:30:02,219
this is what I want to kind of dig into because there's still a lot of publishing.
816
00:30:02,229 --> 00:30:04,520
But the face of publishing has changed.
817
00:30:04,530 --> 00:30:08,959
There's so much more noise out there because the great thing is you can self publish,
818
00:30:08,969 --> 00:30:12,859
but it's a double edged sword because now anyone can write a book.
819
00:30:12,869 --> 00:30:18,839
It used to be like there was a certain amount of whatever your subject matter was.
820
00:30:18,849 --> 00:30:24,339
There's a certain amount of curation and validation of your content and being able to string words together.
821
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,609
That's what traditional publishers did.
822
00:30:26,619 --> 00:30:27,500
And they found,
823
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,989
they found authors and writers that were good at their craft and that were,
824
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,540
were telling stories and that would be interesting to the public.
825
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:35,810
Right.
826
00:30:35,819 --> 00:30:37,109
It had to be sellable too.
827
00:30:37,349 --> 00:30:37,829
But wasn't,
828
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:38,569
they wouldn't take it.
829
00:30:38,579 --> 00:30:38,660
Right.
830
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:39,329
So,
831
00:30:39,339 --> 00:30:41,500
now you've got like,
832
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:42,150
anyone,
833
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,640
anyone can write a book and actually,
834
00:30:43,650 --> 00:30:45,489
if you do it on Amazon it's free.
835
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:45,810
If you,
836
00:30:45,819 --> 00:30:46,829
I don't agree with that,
837
00:30:47,199 --> 00:30:48,829
you don't agree with what that,
838
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:50,550
that anyone can write a book.
839
00:30:50,869 --> 00:30:51,140
It,
840
00:30:51,329 --> 00:30:53,640
it's because it's extremely difficult,
841
00:30:53,650 --> 00:30:55,260
the whole entire process.
842
00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:55,599
I mean,
843
00:30:55,609 --> 00:30:58,500
even if you're just using Amazon alone,
844
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,920
that doesn't mean that all of that other things are being done for.
845
00:31:02,930 --> 00:31:03,189
You.
846
00:31:03,770 --> 00:31:04,150
See,
847
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:04,260
see,
848
00:31:04,550 --> 00:31:04,849
well,
849
00:31:04,859 --> 00:31:08,709
there are many men then because I,
850
00:31:08,819 --> 00:31:09,390
I still,
851
00:31:10,239 --> 00:31:12,099
I still say I know you just,
852
00:31:12,109 --> 00:31:12,589
you're just,
853
00:31:14,530 --> 00:31:15,280
someone hit him,
854
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,180
hit him.
855
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:19,140
If I,
856
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,810
if I come here from hockey,
857
00:31:20,819 --> 00:31:21,489
I'm calm.
858
00:31:22,050 --> 00:31:22,310
Ok.
859
00:31:22,790 --> 00:31:23,810
I don't get to play hockey.
860
00:31:23,819 --> 00:31:24,270
This is,
861
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,189
this is hockey,
862
00:31:25,199 --> 00:31:28,469
at least a quarter of wood or something.
863
00:31:29,219 --> 00:31:29,329
No,
864
00:31:29,339 --> 00:31:29,359
no,
865
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,500
let's talk about,
866
00:31:30,510 --> 00:31:31,369
let's talk about this.
867
00:31:31,630 --> 00:31:33,290
So I think anyone can,
868
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:34,319
can write a book,
869
00:31:34,329 --> 00:31:35,290
get a book published.
870
00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:38,520
That doesn't mean it's good and that doesn't mean anyone's gonna know about it.
871
00:31:38,530 --> 00:31:39,609
That's what you're,
872
00:31:39,839 --> 00:31:40,969
that's what you're hitting on.
873
00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:44,949
Even the technical ability to be able to do it.
874
00:31:44,959 --> 00:31:45,349
I mean,
875
00:31:47,020 --> 00:31:47,569
I'm a,
876
00:31:47,579 --> 00:31:47,589
I,
877
00:31:48,385 --> 00:31:50,145
but you you just said,
878
00:31:50,155 --> 00:31:51,214
pay someone to do it.
879
00:31:51,295 --> 00:31:52,594
That's not you doing it.
880
00:31:52,734 --> 00:31:54,805
I'm talking about self publish.
881
00:31:54,814 --> 00:31:56,515
You do everything all the way to eight.
882
00:31:57,285 --> 00:31:57,895
I was saying,
883
00:31:57,994 --> 00:31:58,265
well,
884
00:31:58,275 --> 00:31:59,505
I think what I'm hearing,
885
00:31:59,515 --> 00:32:01,964
that's what self publish means self.
886
00:32:01,974 --> 00:32:02,305
If it,
887
00:32:02,314 --> 00:32:03,854
if I'm paying someone else to do it,
888
00:32:03,864 --> 00:32:04,385
it ain't self.
889
00:32:04,564 --> 00:32:09,895
But there's a whole industry on self publishing support that you can pay people to do the bits and pieces.
890
00:32:09,905 --> 00:32:15,430
But don't you think that's kind of fighting girls?
891
00:32:15,439 --> 00:32:16,199
Go in the other room,
892
00:32:16,209 --> 00:32:16,890
please.
893
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:18,619
Uh We're fighting over books here.
894
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:19,280
Stop it.
895
00:32:19,979 --> 00:32:21,510
It's not a bad thing to fight over,
896
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:21,920
I guess.
897
00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:22,589
Go ahead.
898
00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:22,829
So,
899
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:25,050
what I'm hearing though is Joseph to your point.
900
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:28,390
Anybody has the capability of authoring a book,
901
00:32:28,459 --> 00:32:29,489
all the tools and everything,
902
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:29,760
right?
903
00:32:29,770 --> 00:32:30,709
That's what you're saying,
904
00:32:30,719 --> 00:32:31,150
Steve,
905
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,430
what you're saying is,
906
00:32:32,439 --> 00:32:32,869
well,
907
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,349
not everybody can write a book and I,
908
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:35,489
and I agree with both of you,
909
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:35,660
right?
910
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:37,069
Not everybody can write a book,
911
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:41,219
but everybody has the capability with what's available these days to write a book.
912
00:32:41,229 --> 00:32:43,030
Am I correct in saying that for both of you?
913
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,410
But let's use one thing,
914
00:32:45,219 --> 00:32:48,050
just one thing like the copy writing process.
915
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:48,949
Yes.
916
00:32:49,390 --> 00:32:50,000
Ok.
917
00:32:50,260 --> 00:32:53,119
That alone is a very complicated thing to do.
918
00:32:53,130 --> 00:32:53,349
Yeah,
919
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:54,869
I can pay a lawyer to do it,
920
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,239
but I paid a lawyer.
921
00:32:56,849 --> 00:32:56,939
Well,
922
00:32:56,949 --> 00:32:57,530
then you're not self,
923
00:33:00,790 --> 00:33:01,920
you had the publisher do it.
924
00:33:01,939 --> 00:33:02,739
That's what I'm saying.
925
00:33:02,750 --> 00:33:02,900
I mean,
926
00:33:02,910 --> 00:33:03,119
to,
927
00:33:03,130 --> 00:33:06,430
to be able to be in a completely independent and do it all yourself.
928
00:33:06,439 --> 00:33:07,449
The steps to the,
929
00:33:07,459 --> 00:33:10,560
to the process of publishing a book are many.
930
00:33:10,989 --> 00:33:14,140
And I know I've been through it several times and,
931
00:33:14,150 --> 00:33:14,160
uh,
932
00:33:14,170 --> 00:33:14,619
but here's,
933
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:15,680
it's difficult.
934
00:33:15,689 --> 00:33:15,959
I mean,
935
00:33:15,969 --> 00:33:16,079
it,
936
00:33:16,089 --> 00:33:16,119
it,
937
00:33:16,130 --> 00:33:16,939
it can be,
938
00:33:16,949 --> 00:33:17,170
here's,
939
00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:18,319
here's my mantra though,
940
00:33:18,329 --> 00:33:18,839
Steve.
941
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:19,329
I,
942
00:33:19,339 --> 00:33:23,890
if I can write a book and it becomes a regional best seller in its category,
943
00:33:24,619 --> 00:33:26,449
anybody can write a book in my opinion.
944
00:33:26,459 --> 00:33:26,790
right?
945
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,189
It takes one thing,
946
00:33:28,199 --> 00:33:29,290
it takes an idea,
947
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,069
it takes an idea that you have to have now.
948
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:33,130
Is it work?
949
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:33,469
Yeah,
950
00:33:33,479 --> 00:33:34,530
it's a lot of work.
951
00:33:34,540 --> 00:33:35,510
It's a lot of struggle.
952
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,469
It's a lot of challenge.
953
00:33:36,479 --> 00:33:37,329
It's a lot of,
954
00:33:37,339 --> 00:33:37,630
you know,
955
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,829
soul searching about.
956
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:38,910
Well,
957
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,319
how do I,
958
00:33:39,329 --> 00:33:39,579
what,
959
00:33:39,589 --> 00:33:42,439
what wordsmith do I do here and how do I change this?
960
00:33:42,729 --> 00:33:45,540
But I think if I can write a book and it does,
961
00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:46,010
OK,
962
00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:49,130
and it turns into a TV show and all this other fun stuff,
963
00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:50,760
anybody can in my opinion.
964
00:33:51,770 --> 00:33:54,989
So what you're what you're saying and I agree with you,
965
00:33:55,290 --> 00:33:55,819
this is,
966
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,170
this goes back to the storytelling.
967
00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:01,939
So everyone does a story to tell.
968
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,209
But if you've never,
969
00:34:04,219 --> 00:34:07,349
if you want to tell that story through publishing,
970
00:34:07,359 --> 00:34:08,399
through a book,
971
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:10,139
you may not understand the medium,
972
00:34:11,169 --> 00:34:11,679
how,
973
00:34:11,689 --> 00:34:12,399
how to get,
974
00:34:12,409 --> 00:34:13,580
how to get that out there.
975
00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:15,790
I think your point and that's Steve's point.
976
00:34:16,510 --> 00:34:17,689
We all agree with each other.
977
00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:23,100
Could write a book if you understood every single part of the process.
978
00:34:23,110 --> 00:34:24,000
I didn't have to,
979
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:26,399
I didn't have to.
980
00:34:27,129 --> 00:34:28,399
But that's different.
981
00:34:28,409 --> 00:34:28,610
You,
982
00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:30,300
you said anyone can write a book.
983
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:30,699
Well,
984
00:34:30,709 --> 00:34:32,520
anyone can't get a publisher.
985
00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:36,060
You had connections because who you are and you were able to get a publisher.
986
00:34:36,678 --> 00:34:39,698
Anyone can't just go out and say I'm gonna self today,
987
00:34:39,708 --> 00:34:41,468
I'm gonna be a self published author.
988
00:34:41,809 --> 00:34:43,569
They're not gonna know the process.
989
00:34:43,789 --> 00:34:44,118
And I,
990
00:34:44,128 --> 00:34:44,249
yeah,
991
00:34:44,259 --> 00:34:47,729
there's a lot of self help stuff out there to be able to help them do that.
992
00:34:47,739 --> 00:34:50,729
But the bar is still extremely high.
993
00:34:50,739 --> 00:34:52,928
So to say anyone can do it,
994
00:34:52,948 --> 00:34:53,688
I don't agree.
995
00:34:53,698 --> 00:34:54,878
Anyone can't,
996
00:34:54,888 --> 00:34:56,188
not without help.
997
00:34:56,198 --> 00:34:57,759
They need lots of help to be able to do it.
998
00:34:57,769 --> 00:35:00,948
So even if you self publish or you have a publisher,
999
00:35:01,879 --> 00:35:03,929
the work is pretty well,
1000
00:35:03,939 --> 00:35:08,510
this significant amount of work that I'm not talking about writing the book.
1001
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,229
Anyone can write a book,
1002
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,860
whether you do it yourself or whether you have a publisher or you,
1003
00:35:14,879 --> 00:35:16,129
you have someone,
1004
00:35:16,139 --> 00:35:19,479
you pay someone to do some support activity for you.
1005
00:35:19,699 --> 00:35:21,290
You get that book published.
1006
00:35:21,429 --> 00:35:26,889
Let's so that's done now how there's so much noise out there?
1007
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:30,219
How do you get the word out?
1008
00:35:30,229 --> 00:35:31,020
And this is,
1009
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:32,860
I think this is a constant struggle.
1010
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:33,179
I mean,
1011
00:35:33,709 --> 00:35:36,229
the New York best time seller list is rigged.
1012
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,100
So and Steve,
1013
00:35:38,110 --> 00:35:38,949
you could share that,
1014
00:35:39,929 --> 00:35:40,239
but there's a,
1015
00:35:40,479 --> 00:35:45,800
it is a formula and so is the ranking algorithm on I won't say,
1016
00:35:46,179 --> 00:35:46,419
well,
1017
00:35:46,429 --> 00:35:47,600
I won't say it on Amazon.
1018
00:35:47,610 --> 00:35:48,310
They all are,
1019
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,679
they can be gained.
1020
00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:50,159
I mean,
1021
00:35:50,169 --> 00:35:52,600
a lot of people have gained the system and,
1022
00:35:52,610 --> 00:35:56,840
and got to be a best seller by doing what they made their book a penny.
1023
00:35:57,100 --> 00:36:03,139
And so they sold a ton of books for a penny and that's what drove them up the ranks and then they change the rate later on and,
1024
00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:03,449
and,
1025
00:36:03,459 --> 00:36:06,560
and services that will do that.
1026
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:06,870
Absolutely.
1027
00:36:07,669 --> 00:36:08,239
Absolutely.
1028
00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:09,469
But in other countries,
1029
00:36:09,479 --> 00:36:09,899
we don't do that.
1030
00:36:10,149 --> 00:36:12,280
So we set that aside,
1031
00:36:12,469 --> 00:36:14,669
set that aside on the side table.
1032
00:36:14,969 --> 00:36:18,919
And if you're just someone that's not gonna try to game the system or,
1033
00:36:18,929 --> 00:36:20,360
or rig the system,
1034
00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:23,030
how do you get the word out?
1035
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:31,290
And I go back to the way people are consuming stories and consuming information.
1036
00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:32,659
It's kind of like you,
1037
00:36:32,669 --> 00:36:35,530
you almost have to spoon feed them something that's like,
1038
00:36:35,540 --> 00:36:35,969
hey,
1039
00:36:35,979 --> 00:36:36,649
that's cool.
1040
00:36:36,659 --> 00:36:37,850
What's that?
1041
00:36:37,860 --> 00:36:40,550
And then that allows them to go deeper and deeper.
1042
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:40,889
But,
1043
00:36:40,899 --> 00:36:41,550
but how do you,
1044
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:42,370
how do you do that?
1045
00:36:42,379 --> 00:36:42,590
I mean,
1046
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:42,989
is there,
1047
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,889
is there a formula for that or is it sort of catches catch?
1048
00:36:46,899 --> 00:36:50,689
Can it's extremely difficult to market one book?
1049
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:53,669
Because if you give,
1050
00:36:53,870 --> 00:36:54,149
you know,
1051
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:56,830
if you share out that information or share out the story,
1052
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,110
then it's like a one and done and then everyone has your story anyway.
1053
00:37:00,709 --> 00:37:01,229
Um,
1054
00:37:01,439 --> 00:37:04,959
like what you're doing makes way more sense because you have many,
1055
00:37:04,969 --> 00:37:05,280
many,
1056
00:37:05,290 --> 00:37:08,010
many stories to follow the first one.
1057
00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:11,850
So it's all about constant content generation.
1058
00:37:12,229 --> 00:37:14,639
That's what is will be successful.
1059
00:37:14,649 --> 00:37:15,699
It's not about just,
1060
00:37:15,709 --> 00:37:15,899
hey,
1061
00:37:15,909 --> 00:37:19,260
I'm gonna make one book today and it's gonna be um you know,
1062
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:20,820
New York Times best seller.
1063
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:22,020
I'm gonna make millions of dollars.
1064
00:37:22,030 --> 00:37:23,439
That is not how it works.
1065
00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:24,489
So don't,
1066
00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:27,729
don't give away the secret sauce because you're gonna give that away in the next.
1067
00:37:27,739 --> 00:37:27,850
Well,
1068
00:37:27,860 --> 00:37:29,360
we're gonna talk about digital marketing,
1069
00:37:29,370 --> 00:37:31,149
we talk about which is obviously,
1070
00:37:31,379 --> 00:37:33,469
but I think to me the book,
1071
00:37:33,479 --> 00:37:36,020
the book is always a platform for something bigger,
1072
00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:36,169
right?
1073
00:37:36,179 --> 00:37:38,020
If I'm just writing a book to sell a book,
1074
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,100
there has to be something bigger than that,
1075
00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:41,260
whether it be speaking,
1076
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:42,760
whether it be a TV show,
1077
00:37:42,770 --> 00:37:43,870
whether it be a movie.
1078
00:37:44,149 --> 00:37:47,169
So you talk about your personal experience with that because you've like,
1079
00:37:47,179 --> 00:37:47,590
what do you,
1080
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,770
you've got a book coming out?
1081
00:37:48,959 --> 00:37:49,110
Well,
1082
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,189
you can plug your book.
1083
00:37:50,199 --> 00:37:50,610
Well,
1084
00:37:50,620 --> 00:37:50,629
I,
1085
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:51,629
I have had,
1086
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:52,770
this is my third one now.
1087
00:37:52,780 --> 00:37:56,469
And so my first book from Glory days is with interviews with former professional athletes.
1088
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,899
I interviewed athletes for this book.
1089
00:37:59,330 --> 00:38:02,350
The book did pretty good turned into a TV show.
1090
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,879
We've done four in four seasons of interviews,
1091
00:38:04,889 --> 00:38:05,479
50 TV,
1092
00:38:05,489 --> 00:38:06,820
interviews with these athletes.
1093
00:38:06,830 --> 00:38:08,510
And so the book turned into something bigger.
1094
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,649
I speak on the topics that we talk about.
1095
00:38:10,659 --> 00:38:11,389
Now from that book.
1096
00:38:11,399 --> 00:38:11,810
In other words,
1097
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:13,129
the transitions of athletes,
1098
00:38:13,139 --> 00:38:15,790
the transitions of uh businesses and companies.
1099
00:38:16,020 --> 00:38:18,250
So that book is morphed into so much more,
1100
00:38:18,260 --> 00:38:21,290
which is my point that a book needs to be a platform for something bigger.
1101
00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:24,689
It's also turned into two more books titled The Change where I,
1102
00:38:24,699 --> 00:38:24,770
you know,
1103
00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:26,669
talk about Leading Change and,
1104
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:27,689
and um how to,
1105
00:38:27,699 --> 00:38:28,649
how to change.
1106
00:38:28,659 --> 00:38:31,199
And so um the idea of,
1107
00:38:31,209 --> 00:38:32,370
to me is boy,
1108
00:38:32,379 --> 00:38:34,969
if I wanna use this book as a platform to speak,
1109
00:38:34,979 --> 00:38:38,669
then I wanna make sure that I'm doing whatever I need to do to get it out there,
1110
00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:40,409
whether it be a trans media approach,
1111
00:38:40,419 --> 00:38:40,620
right?
1112
00:38:40,629 --> 00:38:41,020
In other words,
1113
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:41,790
it's not just a book,
1114
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:42,409
I'm marketing,
1115
00:38:42,530 --> 00:38:44,159
I wanna market some video,
1116
00:38:44,169 --> 00:38:46,409
I wanna market some uh you know,
1117
00:38:46,419 --> 00:38:51,580
other content about that book or about me or about the company in order to do so.
1118
00:38:51,590 --> 00:38:52,050
But it,
1119
00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:52,290
to me,
1120
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:53,629
anybody writing a book,
1121
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:57,310
it has to start with this book needs to be something,
1122
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,129
a platform for something bigger,
1123
00:38:59,139 --> 00:38:59,669
correct.
1124
00:38:59,679 --> 00:38:59,830
And it,
1125
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,250
and it obviously it depends on what kind of book it is.
1126
00:39:02,260 --> 00:39:02,439
I mean,
1127
00:39:02,449 --> 00:39:05,879
if it's a self help book or that type of thing versus a novel,
1128
00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:06,300
you know,
1129
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:07,689
those are two different things.
1130
00:39:07,699 --> 00:39:07,899
I mean,
1131
00:39:07,909 --> 00:39:12,120
you're gonna speak around your books and that uh but when you're dealing with novels,
1132
00:39:12,129 --> 00:39:13,080
what do people want,
1133
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:14,479
they want more stories,
1134
00:39:14,739 --> 00:39:16,030
they want to be like,
1135
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,399
why is Netflix popular because of series?
1136
00:39:18,409 --> 00:39:20,620
So book series TV,
1137
00:39:20,629 --> 00:39:21,560
series,
1138
00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:23,560
that's what's important.
1139
00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:24,110
You gotta,
1140
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,120
you gotta keep the if you're a great author,
1141
00:39:26,129 --> 00:39:27,340
keep the content coming.
1142
00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:28,399
I took,
1143
00:39:28,409 --> 00:39:30,800
uh Joseph to Los Angeles once and they said,
1144
00:39:30,810 --> 00:39:30,919
you know,
1145
00:39:30,929 --> 00:39:32,679
you need to stop writing and,
1146
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,770
and I on the plane back seriously and on the plane back,
1147
00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:36,179
I looked at him,
1148
00:39:36,189 --> 00:39:38,330
I said I was crying to them.
1149
00:39:38,340 --> 00:39:39,010
I was crying.
1150
00:39:39,020 --> 00:39:39,709
I was sad.
1151
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,030
I was like a kicked puppy.
1152
00:39:41,610 --> 00:39:43,419
Like it's ok.
1153
00:39:43,439 --> 00:39:43,939
I can't get back.
1154
00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:46,770
They're like you have enough content.
1155
00:39:46,780 --> 00:39:47,300
I said,
1156
00:39:47,310 --> 00:39:47,830
no,
1157
00:39:47,870 --> 00:39:49,530
you never have enough content.
1158
00:39:49,699 --> 00:39:49,820
Well,
1159
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:50,689
I just can't get past.
1160
00:39:50,699 --> 00:39:51,870
You said you took him once.
1161
00:39:51,879 --> 00:39:52,250
Is that,
1162
00:39:52,429 --> 00:39:53,639
is there a lot?
1163
00:39:53,860 --> 00:39:53,949
OK.
1164
00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:54,320
All right.
1165
00:39:54,330 --> 00:39:55,500
I just want to clarify that.
1166
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:55,709
But,
1167
00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:56,389
but yeah,
1168
00:39:56,399 --> 00:39:57,350
so the content.
1169
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,510
So there's two different angles like you talked about Steve,
1170
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,070
there's one of if I'm a novel or I'm creating a novel type story,
1171
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,469
pushing more and more content building,
1172
00:40:05,479 --> 00:40:07,750
that story is important if in my case,
1173
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:08,840
it's nonfiction.
1174
00:40:09,110 --> 00:40:12,020
Um having a bigger platform for that nonfiction.
1175
00:40:12,219 --> 00:40:12,310
Yeah.
1176
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:12,739
And this,
1177
00:40:12,750 --> 00:40:16,389
this bleeds into and we've talked about this on multiple occasions.
1178
00:40:16,399 --> 00:40:17,719
So we're talking today,
1179
00:40:17,729 --> 00:40:19,870
we're talking about publishing.
1180
00:40:19,879 --> 00:40:23,750
So this bleeds into that whole trans media.
1181
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:26,530
Like looking at it goes back to the story,
1182
00:40:26,540 --> 00:40:26,810
Kurt,
1183
00:40:26,820 --> 00:40:27,530
you said it,
1184
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:31,110
it's like you have to have a platform where you're in and in this case,
1185
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,969
you can replace platform with story,
1186
00:40:32,979 --> 00:40:36,679
like you have to start with a compelling story.
1187
00:40:36,810 --> 00:40:38,580
Uh And we were talking about if you,
1188
00:40:38,590 --> 00:40:40,110
if you're gonna make it in a book or whatever.
1189
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,050
But if you think of,
1190
00:40:41,060 --> 00:40:42,879
if you have a compelling story,
1191
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,489
you need to tell that story across media.
1192
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:47,780
So,
1193
00:40:47,790 --> 00:40:49,449
and that's sort of that trans media approach.
1194
00:40:49,459 --> 00:40:51,800
And even if you're talking about publishing,
1195
00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:52,199
you may say,
1196
00:40:52,209 --> 00:40:52,570
ok,
1197
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:54,399
I'm going to publish a book,
1198
00:40:54,409 --> 00:40:56,860
but you got to pull that thread all the way through because then it's like,
1199
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:57,169
OK,
1200
00:40:57,179 --> 00:40:59,040
you have this physical book now.
1201
00:40:59,219 --> 00:41:00,229
But what are you gonna do with it?
1202
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:00,699
How are you,
1203
00:41:00,709 --> 00:41:02,540
how are people going to the story?
1204
00:41:02,850 --> 00:41:03,760
What is the story?
1205
00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:04,520
What,
1206
00:41:04,530 --> 00:41:04,919
what,
1207
00:41:04,929 --> 00:41:05,879
why you wrote it?
1208
00:41:05,889 --> 00:41:06,989
What it's for?
1209
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:07,270
I mean,
1210
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,929
what's the story behind that part of it,
1211
00:41:08,939 --> 00:41:09,560
in your opinion?
1212
00:41:09,699 --> 00:41:10,020
Well,
1213
00:41:10,030 --> 00:41:10,439
I mean,
1214
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:14,540
and this is when how Steve and I connected was,
1215
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:14,800
you know,
1216
00:41:14,810 --> 00:41:18,560
I had basically built out this storytelling universe,
1217
00:41:18,570 --> 00:41:24,860
this concept of the folk tellers universe and people traveling in time and space to tell others the stories they need to hear,
1218
00:41:24,899 --> 00:41:27,070
to fulfill their destinies and a,
1219
00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:30,020
a in a series of children's books.
1220
00:41:30,030 --> 00:41:31,189
But it was like,
1221
00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:31,439
OK,
1222
00:41:31,449 --> 00:41:31,739
how am I?
1223
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:33,979
I was a book writer,
1224
00:41:33,989 --> 00:41:34,669
author.
1225
00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:35,540
That's all I knew,
1226
00:41:35,550 --> 00:41:35,729
you know,
1227
00:41:35,739 --> 00:41:38,199
that was the medium that I was working in.
1228
00:41:38,209 --> 00:41:44,399
But I knew like just doing a book series wasn't gonna cut it and Steve saw it and was like,
1229
00:41:44,409 --> 00:41:44,639
no,
1230
00:41:44,649 --> 00:41:45,209
this is like,
1231
00:41:45,219 --> 00:41:46,649
you kind of need to look at this.
1232
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:47,500
Yeah,
1233
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:47,760
we were,
1234
00:41:47,770 --> 00:41:48,070
and you know,
1235
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,010
we were talking about,
1236
00:41:49,020 --> 00:41:49,270
it's like,
1237
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:49,570
ok,
1238
00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:50,389
how do you,
1239
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:51,780
when you change the medium,
1240
00:41:51,790 --> 00:41:52,879
you change the experience?
1241
00:41:52,889 --> 00:41:53,979
So it goes back to the story,
1242
00:41:53,989 --> 00:41:56,719
how are people interacting with the story?
1243
00:41:56,750 --> 00:42:02,949
And my biggest concern was um what I can control is the book series because that's what I know.
1244
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:07,300
But I need to bring in other experts that understand other media and could,
1245
00:42:07,570 --> 00:42:12,939
could amplify and to tell this same story in a different way in a different medium.
1246
00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:15,649
And we all interact through different types of publishing,
1247
00:42:15,889 --> 00:42:17,590
whether it's being published as music,
1248
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,939
whether it's being published art or you know,
1249
00:42:20,949 --> 00:42:22,300
literary works.
1250
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:23,040
It's all being,
1251
00:42:23,050 --> 00:42:23,510
it's all,
1252
00:42:23,689 --> 00:42:24,270
it's how,
1253
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:24,530
how,
1254
00:42:24,540 --> 00:42:25,540
how people are connecting,
1255
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:27,760
how they're bringing all of these pieces together.
1256
00:42:28,030 --> 00:42:32,310
And those all sit on top of what Kurt just said the platform,
1257
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:32,760
right?
1258
00:42:32,770 --> 00:42:35,179
So if we can say anything today,
1259
00:42:35,189 --> 00:42:35,469
you know,
1260
00:42:35,479 --> 00:42:36,449
if someone's out there and they,
1261
00:42:36,459 --> 00:42:38,449
they've got all of these stories in their mind,
1262
00:42:38,459 --> 00:42:40,600
they should really step back,
1263
00:42:41,370 --> 00:42:42,649
get a white piece of paper,
1264
00:42:42,659 --> 00:42:43,320
put it on the,
1265
00:42:43,330 --> 00:42:43,399
yeah,
1266
00:42:43,409 --> 00:42:45,300
I'm not saying computer same paper,
1267
00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:47,479
lay it out onto the kitchen table and say,
1268
00:42:47,540 --> 00:42:49,530
how am I going to design my universe?
1269
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:51,139
How am I going to design my platform?
1270
00:42:52,310 --> 00:42:53,959
And I think most people don't,
1271
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,260
don't do that.
1272
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:55,639
Don't,
1273
00:42:55,649 --> 00:42:56,600
don't start there.
1274
00:42:56,610 --> 00:42:57,679
Here's my mantra with that.
1275
00:42:57,689 --> 00:43:00,570
We have more information available than ever before in history,
1276
00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:00,899
right.
1277
00:43:00,909 --> 00:43:01,500
Ever.
1278
00:43:01,510 --> 00:43:03,379
If I can't find something in 30 seconds,
1279
00:43:03,389 --> 00:43:04,219
something's wrong,
1280
00:43:04,229 --> 00:43:04,629
right?
1281
00:43:04,860 --> 00:43:08,449
But yet we have less thinking and it takes thinking to do that what you just described,
1282
00:43:08,459 --> 00:43:08,840
Steve.
1283
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:09,810
And so,
1284
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:10,080
you know,
1285
00:43:10,090 --> 00:43:12,969
whether it be the Gutenberg Press to where we are today,
1286
00:43:12,979 --> 00:43:13,300
right?
1287
00:43:13,310 --> 00:43:17,229
The publishing that started with the Gutenberg Press that we talked about at the beginning.
1288
00:43:17,330 --> 00:43:20,060
R J's content to where we are today.
1289
00:43:20,449 --> 00:43:21,580
How do we wrap this up?
1290
00:43:21,590 --> 00:43:21,939
Yeah.
1291
00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:22,310
Yeah.
1292
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:22,899
So the,
1293
00:43:22,909 --> 00:43:23,379
I think the,
1294
00:43:23,389 --> 00:43:26,219
the question for if I was listening to this,
1295
00:43:26,399 --> 00:43:26,989
I'd be like,
1296
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:28,189
where do I start?
1297
00:43:28,580 --> 00:43:29,760
Like you touched on a little bit?
1298
00:43:29,770 --> 00:43:30,389
But OK,
1299
00:43:30,399 --> 00:43:31,010
so all this,
1300
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:36,909
there's all this noise and all this going on in trans media and multimedia and content creation and blah,
1301
00:43:36,919 --> 00:43:37,050
blah,
1302
00:43:37,060 --> 00:43:37,379
blah.
1303
00:43:38,010 --> 00:43:39,360
If I have a story,
1304
00:43:40,449 --> 00:43:44,270
where do I start to capture and communicate this story?
1305
00:43:45,739 --> 00:43:47,560
I think it depends on where they,
1306
00:43:47,570 --> 00:43:48,879
who the audience is,
1307
00:43:49,179 --> 00:43:49,449
right?
1308
00:43:49,459 --> 00:43:52,669
Because to me that depends on which form I use.
1309
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:54,149
Like for a book.
1310
00:43:54,159 --> 00:43:55,530
I know I have a certain audience,
1311
00:43:55,540 --> 00:43:56,929
somebody wants to read a book,
1312
00:43:56,939 --> 00:43:57,850
whether it be online,
1313
00:43:57,860 --> 00:43:59,270
whether it be uh physical,
1314
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,429
whether it be audio,
1315
00:44:00,820 --> 00:44:04,870
if I have a TV show based on those stories that's a different,
1316
00:44:04,879 --> 00:44:06,149
could be the same demographic,
1317
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:08,360
but it's a different way of digesting.
1318
00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:11,370
I think you've talked about that the way you digest the content.
1319
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,270
Um I think that's an important question to answer early on of who,
1320
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,290
who is my audience,
1321
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:21,370
why is this important and what is the best um medium to use for this,
1322
00:44:21,379 --> 00:44:22,550
I think that's a good point.
1323
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,889
So I'll push back and say,
1324
00:44:24,899 --> 00:44:24,929
I,
1325
00:44:24,939 --> 00:44:27,610
I would say as a creator,
1326
00:44:28,229 --> 00:44:29,570
it starts from within.
1327
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,040
So how as a creator are you best as an artist?
1328
00:44:34,050 --> 00:44:35,050
Really think of yourself as,
1329
00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:38,800
how are you best hardwired to communicate that?
1330
00:44:38,810 --> 00:44:39,379
For me,
1331
00:44:39,389 --> 00:44:40,620
it was writing books.
1332
00:44:40,989 --> 00:44:42,939
Um For me it's TV,
1333
00:44:42,949 --> 00:44:43,179
for you,
1334
00:44:43,189 --> 00:44:44,040
it's TV.
1335
00:44:44,050 --> 00:44:44,520
For me,
1336
00:44:44,530 --> 00:44:45,020
what about you,
1337
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:45,350
Steve?
1338
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:45,820
I mean,
1339
00:44:45,830 --> 00:44:46,000
like,
1340
00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:48,800
where's your starting point when you're trying to,
1341
00:44:48,810 --> 00:44:50,949
trying to put stuff together to,
1342
00:44:50,959 --> 00:44:52,060
to tell a story?
1343
00:44:52,330 --> 00:44:53,159
If you were to,
1344
00:44:53,169 --> 00:44:55,959
to look at pieces of paper that sit on my desk,
1345
00:44:55,969 --> 00:44:58,000
I doodle like if I'm on a zoom call,
1346
00:44:58,010 --> 00:45:00,040
I'm sitting there drawing little pictures,
1347
00:45:00,050 --> 00:45:00,560
you know,
1348
00:45:00,570 --> 00:45:02,100
I'm a left handed engineer.
1349
00:45:02,110 --> 00:45:03,080
What can I say?
1350
00:45:03,419 --> 00:45:05,620
Um But I love to draw little pictures.
1351
00:45:05,629 --> 00:45:05,820
It get,
1352
00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:06,560
it makes,
1353
00:45:06,570 --> 00:45:09,060
it brings ideas out with me.
1354
00:45:09,070 --> 00:45:11,909
So then what I'll do is actually go back and look at my notes,
1355
00:45:11,919 --> 00:45:14,729
my notes don't look like regular people's notes,
1356
00:45:14,919 --> 00:45:18,020
they doodles and pictures and all kinds all over the place.
1357
00:45:18,030 --> 00:45:18,370
And then I,
1358
00:45:18,379 --> 00:45:19,000
I look at,
1359
00:45:19,010 --> 00:45:20,080
I go OK.
1360
00:45:20,090 --> 00:45:20,139
Yeah,
1361
00:45:20,149 --> 00:45:21,479
this is what I want to do.
1362
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,750
And so even if I'm building technology or just inventing things or whatever,
1363
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,010
it's all done the same way,
1364
00:45:27,020 --> 00:45:28,330
it's all done through doodling.
1365
00:45:28,340 --> 00:45:33,340
So what you're hitting on and I think we can all agree to this at some point.
1366
00:45:33,350 --> 00:45:42,129
If you're gonna tell a story and you want to publish in whatever format you have to crystallize it down to its simplest form,
1367
00:45:42,139 --> 00:45:43,350
at least in your own head.
1368
00:45:43,830 --> 00:45:44,280
Like,
1369
00:45:44,290 --> 00:45:45,429
so for me,
1370
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:46,330
you know,
1371
00:45:46,340 --> 00:45:49,479
this whole storytelling universe that I built.
1372
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,050
I crystallized it down into people say,
1373
00:45:53,060 --> 00:45:53,139
well,
1374
00:45:53,149 --> 00:45:53,800
what's this about?
1375
00:45:53,810 --> 00:45:55,280
What's this whole huge thing about?
1376
00:45:55,290 --> 00:45:55,810
I'm like,
1377
00:45:56,129 --> 00:45:56,679
it's a boy,
1378
00:45:56,689 --> 00:45:57,560
a book in a shadow,
1379
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,010
meaning what?
1380
00:46:00,010 --> 00:46:01,419
It's a story about a boy,
1381
00:46:02,270 --> 00:46:04,000
a book in a shadow.
1382
00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:04,929
That's the whole thing.
1383
00:46:04,959 --> 00:46:04,979
Yeah.
1384
00:46:05,699 --> 00:46:06,080
It's,
1385
00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:07,050
it's like what Disney,
1386
00:46:07,060 --> 00:46:07,479
like they said,
1387
00:46:07,489 --> 00:46:09,239
it all began with a little mouse.
1388
00:46:09,550 --> 00:46:09,919
You know,
1389
00:46:09,929 --> 00:46:10,840
you like,
1390
00:46:10,850 --> 00:46:11,399
that's what,
1391
00:46:11,409 --> 00:46:11,540
and,
1392
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:11,959
and it,
1393
00:46:11,969 --> 00:46:14,780
it's way harder to do that than,
1394
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:15,860
than you would think.
1395
00:46:15,870 --> 00:46:17,840
But at some point you have to do that.
1396
00:46:17,850 --> 00:46:18,239
So,
1397
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:19,120
um anyway,
1398
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:21,590
that's all we've got today.
1399
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:27,110
Uh any closing thoughts and words on storytelling and publishing and,
1400
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,090
and the madness,
1401
00:46:28,350 --> 00:46:29,830
the rabbit hole that we've gone down.
1402
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:29,919
Yeah.
1403
00:46:29,929 --> 00:46:31,000
For me,
1404
00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:31,149
it,
1405
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:34,110
it's back to what you two were having dialogue.
1406
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,350
I don't want to call it argument.
1407
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:36,030
It probably was,
1408
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:36,840
but I didn't see any.
1409
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:39,350
Oh,
1410
00:46:41,139 --> 00:46:41,709
let him go.
1411
00:46:42,139 --> 00:46:43,090
That's the Monty Python.
1412
00:46:43,649 --> 00:46:45,300
Because Joseph to your point,
1413
00:46:45,590 --> 00:46:45,899
the,
1414
00:46:45,909 --> 00:46:50,969
the anybody is capable of writing a book these days with what's available out there for,
1415
00:46:50,979 --> 00:46:53,020
for people to write and a publishing.
1416
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:53,969
It could be music too.
1417
00:46:53,979 --> 00:46:54,219
Right.
1418
00:46:54,229 --> 00:46:58,540
There's avenues out there to Steve to your point that it,
1419
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:58,580
it,
1420
00:46:58,699 --> 00:46:59,540
it might be any,
1421
00:46:59,550 --> 00:47:01,540
anybody is capable of,
1422
00:47:01,550 --> 00:47:06,219
of um having information or have an opportunity to write a book but not everybody is capable of.
1423
00:47:06,229 --> 00:47:06,419
It is,
1424
00:47:06,429 --> 00:47:07,540
I guess I want to frame that.
1425
00:47:08,030 --> 00:47:08,129
Yeah,
1426
00:47:08,139 --> 00:47:08,580
I mean,
1427
00:47:08,590 --> 00:47:14,600
anyone has the capabilities to be able to write a story but publishing it because of the,
1428
00:47:14,610 --> 00:47:17,840
the complicated process that you have to go through,
1429
00:47:17,850 --> 00:47:21,000
you either have to get external help or you have to figure it out yourself.
1430
00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:23,649
It's one way or another and it's not easy.
1431
00:47:23,659 --> 00:47:27,350
It doesn't matter whether you're self publishing or whether you're gonna have someone else publish it,
1432
00:47:27,699 --> 00:47:29,699
it's hard and,
1433
00:47:29,709 --> 00:47:29,959
um,
1434
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,199
it's hard for a reason.
1435
00:47:31,209 --> 00:47:31,550
I mean,
1436
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,770
because it's hard work and anything that's hard work,
1437
00:47:35,070 --> 00:47:35,399
you know,
1438
00:47:35,409 --> 00:47:36,639
is worth doing great point.
1439
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:37,780
So that's a great,
1440
00:47:37,790 --> 00:47:38,899
that's a great way to end.
1441
00:47:38,909 --> 00:47:40,129
It's not easy,
1442
00:47:40,459 --> 00:47:42,179
but it's worth doing.
1443
00:47:42,189 --> 00:47:46,020
So we highly recommend if you have a story to tell,
1444
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,500
just get started.
1445
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:48,639
I would tell it.
1446
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,199
Thanks everyone.
1447
00:47:50,479 --> 00:47:52,000
We'll see you next time.

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