00:00:00The Secret That Keeps an Audience
00:02:04The Most Dangerous Feeling
00:05:16The People and the Plan
00:07:53Build Belonging Before Buzz
00:11:26Meet Them, Don’t Aim
이 에피소드에 관해
When did your audience stop being people and become a number?
Most independent films and podcasts do not fail because the work is bad. They fail because no one ever felt like they belonged to them. This Deep Dive is about how to build an audience for your documentary before it is ever released, and the one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make.
In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 284 with Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong, host Christian Taylor takes the idea at the heart of his film “Human Forever,” the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history, and follows it somewhere unexpected: the same thing that makes dementia care humane is the thing that built his audience.
The spine of the episode is a single word, belonging. Jonathan says the most dangerous part of dementia is not the diagnosis, it is the feeling of not belonging. Christian tests that idea against her own father’s move into memory care this month, then turns it on filmmakers through Martin Buber’s 1923 book “I and Thou” and the difference between treating a person as an “It” and meeting them as a “Thou.” The through line: build belonging before you build buzz.
In this episode, Christian explores:
- Why the feeling of not belonging is the most dangerous part of dementia, in Jonathan de Jong’s own words
- The one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make
- How Jonathan built an audience for “Human Forever” before a single frame was shot
- Why building a movement beat marketing a film
- What belonging looks like in one real room, on her father’s move day
- Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” and the difference between an It and a Thou
- How filmmaking goes wrong the moment your audience becomes a number
- Why you invite people to belong instead of reaching for them
- The question to ask about anyone you put in front of your camera
- What a documentary about dementia can teach any filmmaker about reach
CHAPTERS
0:00 The Secret That Keeps an Audience
2:04 The Most Dangerous Feeling
5:16 The People and the Plan
7:53 Build Belonging Before Buzz
11:26 Meet Them, Don’t Aim
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
How do you build an audience for a documentary before it is released? You build belonging first. Jonathan de Jong built a movement around “Human Forever” before the film existed, a real person at the center and bestselling books out in the world, so audiences already felt part of something by release. The lesson for any filmmaker: make people feel they belong to what you are doing long before you ask them to watch, buy, or share it.
What is the best way to market a documentary with no budget? Stop marketing and start including. Invite people into the mission instead of aiming promotion at them. When an audience feels seen and part of the story, they carry it for you. Belonging spreads a film further than any ad spend, which is why Jonathan filled theaters for a film about dementia without a marketing war chest.
What is Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” about? “I and Thou,” published in 1923, describes two ways of relating to another person. You can treat someone as an “It,” a thing to manage, a number, a problem to handle. Or you can meet them as a “Thou,” a whole person, encountered directly. Buber argued that real life is found in the “Thou,” in genuine meeting rather than use.
Why do people stop watching independent films and podcasts? Because they can feel when a creator is aiming something at them instead of making something for them. The moment an audience becomes a view count or a click to convert, the work loses the sense that it was made for real people. People stay when they feel met and included, and they drift when they feel handled.
ABOUT THE FILMS AND TOPIC
“Human Forever” is a documentary directed by Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong through SUPER7EVEN Productions. It follows the young dementia-care nurse Teun Toebes as he lives among and travels the world alongside people with dementia, and it became the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. The film is one piece of a larger movement that also includes Teun’s bestselling books and the Article 25 Foundation he co-founded.
Jonathan de Jong is a Dutch filmmaker and author who builds socially focused stories, and the guest on Documentary First Episode 284. SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com. Film: https://human-forever.com.
Teun Toebes is a nurse, humanitarian activist, and bestselling author who has spent years living inside dementia wards around the world. https://www.teuntoebes.com.
ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST: THE DEEP DIVE
Each week, host Christian Taylor takes an insight from a recent Documentary First filmmaker interview and follows it through literature, philosophy, faith, and her own life. Christian is an award-winning documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of “The Girl Who Wore Freedom.” The Deep Dive is built for documentary filmmakers, lovers of story, and anyone who wants to think more deeply about the work of making things.
RESOURCES MENTIONED
- “Human Forever” (film), Jonathan de Jong, SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://human-forever.com
- SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com
- Teun Toebes: https://www.teuntoebes.com
- Martin Buber, “I and Thou” (Ich und Du), 1923
Documentary First Episode 284 with Jonathan de Jong: https://pod.fo/e/50bde1
LISTEN AND FOLLOW
Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first Watch on YouTube: @DocumentaryFirst
SUPPORT THE SHOW
Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/documentaryfirst
CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST
All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor
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