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Welcome to the Decide Your Legacy podcast, helping
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individuals and businesses unleash their potential.
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Join us every episode as host Adam Bragg
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discusses what is holding us back and how
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to find hope for moving forward.
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Along the way, we discuss developing healthy relationships
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and navigating life transitions while overcoming fear, stress,
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and anxiety.
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Live the life you want, the legacy you
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decide.
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So, have you ever noticed that the hardest
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conversations in a family business and in a
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family, they aren't about the surface level issues,
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they're actually much deeper and that's why people
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avoid them.
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They're about jealousy and trust and who's going
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to run the business, who is their favoritism.
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Those are the hard things that people avoid.
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No one says it out loud, but it
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shows up in business meetings, in the boardroom,
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it shows up in decisions not getting made,
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it shows up at Thanksgiving dinner, shows up
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at Christmas.
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What's unspoken at the dinner table shows up
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elsewhere in sometimes really unhealthy ways.
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A family business can outlive the founder or
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it can actually split the family.
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And the difference is usually decided long before
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the transition ever occurs, years before.
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Today, we're going to talk about passing the
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business down without breaking the family.
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Three decisions that every family business must make
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and hopefully you're going to see that some
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of these are practical.
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Not comfortable, but they're practical.
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And you can talk about them with somebody
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and they're going to understand, even your six
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-year-old child.
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They can be something that makes sense.
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So welcome to the Decide Your Legacy podcast.
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I'm your host, Adam Gragg.
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I'm a coach and a family therapist and
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I founded Decide Your Legacy in 2012.
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Our passion is connecting people, helping them talk
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about the real core issues.
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Courageously, connection builds legacy and legacy is now
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how we live now.
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In fact, it's the foundation.
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Connection is the foundation of legacy.
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It happens through courageous conversations.
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Joining me today is a special guest, Clem
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Ost.
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And I wanted to have Clem on the
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podcast because I have known him for approximately
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roughly 20 years, known of him and seen
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him interact in the community with businesses.
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He has a unique perspective and he's a
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good communicator.
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He has some really valuable stuff to share.
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And he shared with me probably a month
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ago, maybe less, but an article called the
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Enterprising Family Tree.
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And it describes the family business like a
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tree, which I think is very relevant.
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Three aspects of the tree.
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The family is the roots.
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Under the surface, ownership is the trunk and
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the business is the canopy.
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The business is the canopy.
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I loved how simple it was.
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You can grasp it and look at it.
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So Clem, will you share some things about
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yourself personally and professionally so the audience can
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get to know you better today?
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Okay.
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Thank you.
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And I appreciate the opportunity to come together
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and kind of explore this together because I
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know you've done wonderful work in this field.
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And so thank you very much.
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Thanks for being here.
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I'll give you a little background.
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I came from a farm family and it
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was a large farm family.
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There were 10 of us boys and four
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girls.
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And so it was, you talk about family,
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it was a big family, but it was,
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it was really blessed at an early age
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in terms of being able to connect with
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all my siblings.
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And we grew up and played together, fought
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together, whatever.
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Where did you fall in the birth order?
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I was the fifth oldest.
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I had two older brothers and two older
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sisters.
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And so I was really kind of the
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head of the next group.
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There was myself and then my younger siblings
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that there were three, three of them in
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particular that followed me.
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And then they're kind of a slight.
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With 13 siblings, did you ever forget their
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names?
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No, no, you didn't forget their names.
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I mean, you might not call them the
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best names, but exactly, exactly.
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But it was, you know, as I reflect
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back on my experience in life it was
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a wonderful and still is a wonderful experience
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because we get together every two years and
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there's many, many cousins and usually there's 250
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to 300 people that gather for family gathering
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every two years.
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Oh wow.
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One in Missouri and one in Kansas because
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of relocation of some of my siblings to
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Missouri.
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But give you a little background.
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I grew up on the farm and I
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always knew in my heart that that's not
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what I wanted to do.
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And so in the early years I noticed
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that people that were really driving nice cars
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and dressed up would come into our yard
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and it turned out to be insurance salesmen.
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And so I told myself that's how I,
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that's my path to leaving the farm.
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So as in my early teens, before I
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had, right after I graduated from grade school,
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large Catholic family and 10 of the boys,
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my mother and dad always thought that there's
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got to be a priest in these 10
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boys somewhere.
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And so I even, following graduating from high
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school, spent about two weeks at a seminary
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in Missouri and decided that's not the path
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I was going to go on.
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And then our church burned down.
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My freshman year of high school, I went
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to the public school in Conway.
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The church burned down and some of the
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priests, they had just opened that year.
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The all boys Jesuit school at Woodlawn and
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Central called Chaplain Capon High School.
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And the priests were coming out to help
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the pastor and apparently approached my parents about
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is there somebody in the parish that could
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come and live at the school?
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And the next thing I know, my father
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and mother, my dad, he drove to Wichita
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on the east side of town.
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I had a little cardboard suitcase and I'm
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walking up the walk and not showing where
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to go.
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They were in their second year and so
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they were all coming in from the feeder
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schools and dressed in their uniforms as was
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kind of common.
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And finally, they took me to where I
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was going to live and one of the
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priests and it was a dressing room off
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the gymnasium stage.
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So I moved into that dressing room and
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that's where I lived for three years.
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I'd have to move out whenever there was
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a play.
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So it was a life changing event and
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very traumatic in the early months.
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But it also enabled me to go on
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through high school.
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I went to a four year private school
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in that city where I met my wife
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and then I pursued getting into the insurance
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business because I felt that was my avenue.
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Ultimately, I did get in the insurance business,
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did that for 10 years.
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But during those 10 years, my primary clients
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were family owned businesses.
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I was attracted to the dairymen and the
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community entrepreneurs and that sort of thing.
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So that was a path that just connected
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for me.
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And then in the late 70s, a mentor
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of mine encouraged me to identify the most
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successful people I know and just call on
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them and ask them the key to success.
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And I happened to call on Frank Carney.
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And fortunately, his person that was kind of
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shepherding him was not at the front desk
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and he was in the office and he
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waved me in and we developed a relationship.
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So he was a tremendous mentor and coach
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because I got involved in strategic planning when
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it was just emerging.
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It came out of the financial planning field,
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but I was intrigued by the planning process.
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And for the audience, Frank Carney is one
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of the co-founders of Pizza Hut.
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Yes, he was one of the brothers.
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Which was started in Wichita where we're speaking
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today.
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Okay.
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So that gives you a little background of
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my entry into it and then I've watched
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the field emerge.
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I've been involved with it since 1977 is
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when I got out of the insurance business,
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went strictly to a fee-based advisory firm.
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For family businesses.
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For family businesses.
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That field really developed in the 80s through
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an organization called Family Firm Institute.
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And so I got very involved in it
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and watched the field really emerge tremendously where
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today there's unlimited opportunities to reimagine the focus
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in terms of shifting from the concept of
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a family business to an enterprising family.
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And so, Clem, what are some of the
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biggest misconceptions you see families having about passing
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down the business?
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I think the biggest succession is thinking of
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it as succession.
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In other words, somebody succeeding them versus a
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generation coming in to be able to redefine
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and reimagine and reinvent together with the elder
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generation what it could become.
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And so transitioning and transformation become very important.
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That it needs to transition and transform into
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something different in order to be current.
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And so we get trapped in the fact
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that it's got to be duplicated from one
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generation to the next when in fact that's
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not sustainable.
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Not in today's world.
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It's reinvented.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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And the other big thing is the shift
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from the concept of focusing on the family
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enterprise, which focuses on the business, is now
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really focusing on the enterprising family of which
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the glue is the family, not the business.
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Okay.
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The family is the key, you might say,
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container that holds the business together.
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And that's a misconception.
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I think one of the misconceptions too is
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that we don't have to proactively talk about
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the future and we don't have to actually...
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So there's an avoidance.
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We'll get to it some other time.
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I would agree totally, Adam.
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I mean, you have to imagine the world
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and the company and the organization, the family,
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what you want it to be, what you
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feel it was really created by a higher
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power and by God with a special mission
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and a special purpose.
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That's a great way of describing it because
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I look at business as being such an
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amazing growth opportunity to reveal blind spots and
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things in yourself that you can work on.
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Yes.
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We grow through it.
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Yes.
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So why the tree?
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What does that picture help families see that
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a chart or a plan doesn't?
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There's a lot of discussion today in emergence
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of a living organization.
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There's a number of people that have written
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about the living company.
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Ajias, a fellow that came out of Shell
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Company, the living company.
277
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:22,560
And then also today, it's even more emphasized
278
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,720
in terms of the recognition that it's a
279
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,060
dynamic living system.
280
00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:30,900
And it is because of the relationships, because
281
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:35,280
of the dynamics that go on in the
282
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family, which can be a very powerful trigger
283
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,000
for helping to solve problems if we recognize
284
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and are willing to be open to the
285
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,240
fact that differences involved in the family and
286
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,240
crisis that appear or tensions that appear are
287
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,120
positive if we work them through, if we
288
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:56,840
talk them through.
289
00:13:57,220 --> 00:14:00,220
They create new ideas, new thoughts and new
290
00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:02,400
energy, but we have to be open with
291
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,480
an open heart and open mind and open
292
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,420
soul to recognize that.
293
00:14:07,780 --> 00:14:08,200
That's amazing.
294
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,460
And also to me, the tree, most of
295
00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:12,320
the roots are underground.
296
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:13,180
Yes.
297
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,180
Yet we only see, what we see external
298
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:18,300
isn't really what is the foundation of the
299
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:18,520
tree.
300
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:20,340
It's the roots underground, the family.
301
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,880
And that's why I love that illustration there.
302
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,600
And you can think of even some trees,
303
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,740
I don't know for sure, but the majority
304
00:14:28,740 --> 00:14:32,000
of the tree is underground with the roots
305
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:32,440
like that.
306
00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:35,020
The root system is so massive and it's
307
00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:37,140
so stabilizing for that tree that if we
308
00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:39,920
get that right, it makes everything better.
309
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,280
And that tree seed in many occasions has
310
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,760
been planted generations before.
311
00:14:48,780 --> 00:14:49,360
There you go.
312
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:55,900
And one of the favorite little poems by
313
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:58,680
William Stafford, which is The Way It Is,
314
00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:02,080
talks about the thing that never changes.
315
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,960
And it is a brief little poem that
316
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,020
really resonates.
317
00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,340
And if you're familiar with Jim Collins and
318
00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:16,580
Porus, he alludes to that, that it's critical
319
00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:17,620
to define that.
320
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,000
It's critical to define the intent and the
321
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,440
purpose and why we exist as a family,
322
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,880
why we exist as an individual.
323
00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:30,000
And our great task is to discover what
324
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:30,580
that is.
325
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,800
And to get them to talk about it
326
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,680
and clarify it.
327
00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:35,040
The history is so powerful.
328
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,060
Can you think of a very sentimental gift
329
00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:40,940
that you've been given at some point, Clem,
330
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:42,100
that you treasure?
331
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:43,660
Like what one of the most treasured gifts
332
00:15:43,660 --> 00:15:44,680
is that you have?
333
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,900
You know, I went through a process called
334
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:53,480
the strategic coach, which you're very familiar with
335
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:54,760
because I know you're involved in it.
336
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,480
Dan Sullivan, yes.
337
00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,840
And the unique ability exercise was one that
338
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,940
I went through and took about 15 to
339
00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:10,540
20 family members, clients, advisors, people that knew
340
00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:14,640
me, and just really peeled that back.
341
00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:16,340
And one of the things that kept emerging
342
00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:21,600
was my ability to really sense things and
343
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,100
see things that aren't visible to them.
344
00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:32,560
And here, listening to what they're thinking, not
345
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:33,420
what they're saying.
346
00:16:33,420 --> 00:16:36,740
Because oftentimes, you can see those patterns when
347
00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:38,700
we go into the relationship.
348
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,580
So it's really that self-discovery, helping them
349
00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:46,540
discover their unique gifts, their unique talents, and
350
00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:50,940
beginning to see that through dialogue and through
351
00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:55,380
feedback and through conversations, many people, by just
352
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:57,360
asking them, what do you feel that I
353
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:58,880
am really good at?
354
00:16:58,960 --> 00:16:59,940
Oh, that's such a great question.
355
00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:04,119
And that allows you to begin to notice
356
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,540
the patterns and the trends that keep reoccurring.
357
00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:07,900
So that's been a gift from other people
358
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:09,380
to you to help you clarify.
359
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,980
I have always found that I can't see
360
00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:15,359
myself as clearly often without feedback from other
361
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,880
people, from a community, from my family, from
362
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,660
people seeing and pointing out to me that
363
00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:21,200
you're good at that, or why are you
364
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,220
insecure there, Adam?
365
00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:23,359
You really shouldn't be.
366
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,800
And it's sunk in for the first time
367
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:26,680
in those interactions.
368
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,960
Can you think of a tangible gift that
369
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,520
you've gotten that you'd say, like, I really
370
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:31,680
treasure this sentimentally?
371
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,380
I mean, for me, I can share one,
372
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,760
as you think about that, because I'm putting
373
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:35,300
you on the spot.
374
00:17:35,620 --> 00:17:38,260
I have my grandfather's watch that my aunt
375
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:38,840
gave to me.
376
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:41,940
And he came over from when he was
377
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,340
nine from London, from England.
378
00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:46,180
And he worked for the Southern Pacific Railroad
379
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:47,600
his whole career, except when he was in
380
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:48,580
the Navy during World War II.
381
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:50,240
And so he got this watch when he
382
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,640
retired.
383
00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:51,940
It's a gold watch.
384
00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:53,380
My aunt gave it to me, though.
385
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,540
And the reason it's so sentimental is because
386
00:17:55,540 --> 00:17:57,820
of the history, because of the roots, because
387
00:17:57,820 --> 00:17:58,720
of what he meant to me.
388
00:17:58,760 --> 00:17:59,760
He died when I was 15.
389
00:18:00,020 --> 00:18:02,780
But he was such an influence on my
390
00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:06,340
life, even in those 15 years, that I
391
00:18:06,340 --> 00:18:08,140
will get emotional thinking about him in hard
392
00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:10,940
times because I had this sense of unconditional
393
00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:11,640
love from him.
394
00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:13,000
So it represents so much more.
395
00:18:14,140 --> 00:18:16,880
What's for you, Clem, a tangible gift that
396
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:17,220
you've received?
397
00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:19,020
Well, a couple of them.
398
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,200
One is the little community of Oost, Kansas,
399
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,600
O-S-T, by the Cheney Reservoir.
400
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:28,360
That's where my father grew up, and right
401
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,580
across the road from the Catholic Church there.
402
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,880
And it's today a very flourishing little community.
403
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,140
But I can remember my great-grandfather, who
404
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:41,300
helped found that community.
405
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,920
We used to, as children, run over to
406
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,120
his general store, and for a dime you
407
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,940
could get some candy or whatever the case,
408
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,620
or nickel, penny, really.
409
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,820
And so, Oost, Kansas, has really always been
410
00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:00,860
a special gift.
411
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:06,040
I go back there every year and really
412
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:12,960
reconnect with my grandparents in the cemetery, and
413
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,940
my grandparents as well.
414
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,780
The other thing that connects to me is,
415
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,780
I have kind of a book that has
416
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:31,280
a family tree with all, still creating little
417
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,000
birds that we, every time one of my,
418
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,140
one of us had a child, there's a
419
00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:40,860
little bird that goes on the canopy of
420
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:41,240
the tree.
421
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:45,700
And my mother had 67 grandchildren, and then
422
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:48,560
out of that came many, many great-grandchildren,
423
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:51,320
and now it's great-great-great-grandchildren, and
424
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:51,780
so forth.
425
00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:57,040
So, it's a really, really valuable reminder of
426
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,200
how my parents kept us together, and even
427
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,120
when the transfish in the farm, we went
428
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,480
through the exercise of talking about it and
429
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,240
trying to understand where everybody's passions or interests
430
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,680
were at, that reached agreement after my father
431
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,960
died, and then after my mother died, that
432
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,740
it was a legacy that just really was
433
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:23,980
one I never really thought about, because I
434
00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:27,380
started that process when I was in the
435
00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:30,000
insurance business, encouraging my parents to do that.
436
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:32,280
And so, it's lived on.
437
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,420
To make that tree, you encourage them to.
438
00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:37,440
So, why should business leaders pay attention to
439
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,380
this episode, even if they don't currently own
440
00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:41,180
a family business?
441
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,160
I think the key is that family businesses
442
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,780
need the support of others.
443
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:51,380
It's not just about the family business.
444
00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:53,700
They can't succeed without others.
445
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:56,160
So, if you're in a profession or you're
446
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,380
a member of a community and so forth,
447
00:20:58,780 --> 00:21:01,940
to support them, to realize that they're generating
448
00:21:01,940 --> 00:21:08,400
such positive opportunities for jobs and opportunities with
449
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,600
reference to perpetuating the faith, or whatever that
450
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,260
case might be, of recognizing that those tight
451
00:21:16,260 --> 00:21:20,640
communities of your own families are the communities
452
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,740
you want your children or grandchildren to grow
453
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:23,260
up in.
454
00:21:23,820 --> 00:21:29,740
And so, I think professionals really have a
455
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:35,720
tremendous opportunity of helping others become the best
456
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:36,400
they can be.
457
00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:37,120
Yeah, absolutely.
458
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,360
And I think, for me as a family
459
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,320
therapist, I look at the way business teams
460
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,260
function, having a lot of similarities to a
461
00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:45,620
family.
462
00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:48,680
And they are family, but they may have
463
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,140
non-family executives.
464
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,640
And people bring in, you know, just being
465
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,620
a middle child or just feeling some exclusion
466
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:58,340
from their parents growing up.
467
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,820
They could bring that into a team.
468
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,760
And knowing that things work as a system
469
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,200
is valuable for anybody in making those connections.
470
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:12,120
So, yeah, there's, I'd recommend a book called
471
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,860
Business as a Calling by, author is Michael
472
00:22:15,860 --> 00:22:16,220
Nova.
473
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:22,180
And Michael Nova was a very good, connected
474
00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:25,720
with St. John Paul II, as well as
475
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,080
he's written many books.
476
00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:30,280
But he talks about the fact that the
477
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,740
way out of poverty is through being an
478
00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:33,300
entrepreneur.
479
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,900
Oftentimes, and I often find that, that many
480
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:41,780
entrepreneurs oftentimes have not gone on to get
481
00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:43,080
a PhD.
482
00:22:44,060 --> 00:22:47,100
They maybe dropped out of school or they
483
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:50,560
pursued their dream or they pursued an idea.
484
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,660
And so, there's a, in our free enterprise
485
00:22:53,660 --> 00:22:57,080
system, it's critical that we have these healthy
486
00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:01,880
families and these healthy businesses that provide the
487
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,340
opportunities to others who help create the success
488
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:07,380
within the business.
489
00:23:07,660 --> 00:23:13,760
And that there be that unspoken connection that
490
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,340
we can't do this without each other.
491
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,460
We can't do it without each other.
492
00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:20,680
And so much of our economy is driven
493
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:21,460
by family business.
494
00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:23,460
People don't realize that oftentimes.
495
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:25,880
And people don't realize how many people do
496
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:26,960
actually work with family.
497
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:27,640
Yeah.
498
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,660
And some of these leaders out there may
499
00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:31,500
have a family business or maybe growing into
500
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:32,140
a family business.
501
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:32,600
That's right.
502
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,180
So, before we get into the three decisions,
503
00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:36,720
one last question here.
504
00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:39,460
What's the difference, Clem, between a healthy handoff
505
00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:40,500
and an unhealthy one?
506
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:45,980
A healthy handoff works when you're open and
507
00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:49,000
willing to embrace the differences and the conflict,
508
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,320
to name it, to make it without, without
509
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,320
fear, without judgment, without just that a person
510
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,240
feels safe that they can say what they're
511
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:02,660
thinking.
512
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:10,160
And the recipient, out of curiosity and wonder,
513
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:12,360
can try to get clarity on what that
514
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:12,680
means.
515
00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:15,920
So, a healthy conversation back and forth is
516
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,400
not jumping to conclusions, but jump to, what
517
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,580
did you mean by that?
518
00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:22,240
Yeah.
519
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,500
You know, did I understand what you just
520
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:24,800
said?
521
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,040
And so, we need to be able to
522
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,980
not quickly react.
523
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,000
I've been through that situation oftentimes where I
524
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,320
was giving my, I had the answer before
525
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,160
they even finished talking.
526
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,440
And it's a natural tendency for all of
527
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,740
us as emotional human beings to react to.
528
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,960
And these are highly emotional interactions with family.
529
00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:49,520
And they can have 40, 50 years of
530
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:49,860
history.
531
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,900
And I have found that the unhealthy handoffs,
532
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,260
they don't talk about this stuff.
533
00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:58,420
And they react and run rather than engage.
534
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,660
And these are multiple conversations over a period
535
00:25:01,660 --> 00:25:04,180
of time, often years of time, where they're
536
00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:07,040
making progress because there is some openness and
537
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,260
there's more trust being built.
538
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,880
But they're painful.
539
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:14,340
Both Clem and I know what it's like
540
00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:16,040
to have clients that want to fire us
541
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,440
after they get started in the process.
542
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,900
So, there's people that, because it's uncomfortable, but
543
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:22,220
they don't often see the progress.
544
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:24,220
We try to help them see it.
545
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:27,620
But sometimes there's resistance as we get engaged
546
00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:28,520
in these conversations.
547
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,760
Well, you bring up a very good point,
548
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:36,920
Adam, because patience is critical.
549
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,940
Being able to let things emerge.
550
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,600
Oftentimes, we have to have an answer.
551
00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:45,640
We want to fix it.
552
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,740
But actually, when you get into those conversations,
553
00:25:49,980 --> 00:25:51,700
there are differences and there's tension.
554
00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:54,720
There's something better coming out of it if
555
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,560
you hold that space, hold that canine.
556
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:00,600
And the beautiful part about a family, enterprise
557
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,280
or an enterprising family, it's a tight container.
558
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,360
Nobody abandons their family.
559
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,560
You're always family.
560
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,260
They can estrange themselves.
561
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,580
They can distance themselves.
562
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,000
But you always go back to those roots.
563
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:16,940
And many of the things that were passed
564
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:20,220
on to you were passed on to the
565
00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:21,240
previous generation.
566
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,380
And, you know, it's amazing how much of
567
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,180
our own health is connected to our family.
568
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,840
Even how much if someone has anxiety issues
569
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,160
or depression issues, and then resolving things within
570
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,880
their family can make a big impact.
571
00:26:35,020 --> 00:26:37,700
So, what's the first decision here?
572
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:40,700
What's the first decision right now when it
573
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:42,860
comes to this topic, Clem?
574
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:44,520
Commitment.
575
00:26:45,820 --> 00:26:49,580
The first decision is that you're committed to
576
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:50,160
the family.
577
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,340
You're committed to helping it become the best
578
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:54,220
that it can be.
579
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,560
And finding ways and finding resources and finding
580
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,560
information because it's out there.
581
00:27:02,020 --> 00:27:03,760
I've seen the field emerge.
582
00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:05,940
It's all out there.
583
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,540
But we have great individual growth and it
584
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:11,600
starts with the individual.
585
00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:15,180
You have to become the change that you're
586
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:15,520
wanting.
587
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,020
And that means individual self-awareness and self
588
00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:23,000
-determination that you can make a difference.
589
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:27,780
And so, it doesn't require all the family
590
00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:28,220
members.
591
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,140
It just takes one person to change the
592
00:27:31,140 --> 00:27:33,740
system to a very positive movement.
593
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,860
So, what you're saying, commitment to the roots.
594
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:37,460
Yes.
595
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:38,360
Commitment to the roots.
596
00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:42,100
So, the values, the faith, the traditions, the
597
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:44,200
stories that makes...
598
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,040
And those are the deep roots.
599
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,600
Those are the things that never really change.
600
00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:57,020
It's extremely valuable to understand where you came
601
00:27:57,020 --> 00:28:01,060
from and what are those things that you
602
00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:03,400
want to pass on to future generations because
603
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:10,140
they're so true and good and beautiful in
604
00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:10,880
most cases.
605
00:28:11,260 --> 00:28:13,880
Healthy roots are paramount for a healthy tree.
606
00:28:14,580 --> 00:28:18,400
So, unresolved conflict, unspoken expectations.
607
00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:20,180
They rot the roots.
608
00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:21,740
They're out of sight, but they rot.
609
00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:28,460
And oftentimes, families find themselves not even being
610
00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:29,920
able to be in the same room with
611
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,440
each other.
612
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,520
And that takes courage to be able to
613
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,120
say, this isn't what was intended.
614
00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:41,170
And what is it that each of us...
615
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,760
You might ask the question, why do I
616
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:46,160
exist?
617
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,040
And why does this family exist?
618
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,060
What is it that's special for us to
619
00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:52,180
give back to others?
620
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,600
And that takes time and courage.
621
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:58,760
And it's not something that happens overnight.
622
00:28:59,380 --> 00:29:02,100
But the impact of it, beginning it, will
623
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:08,360
make significant difference to be authentic and willing
624
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,060
to stay connected and embrace the struggle, embrace
625
00:29:12,060 --> 00:29:14,920
the pain that we all go through.
626
00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:16,540
It's not isolated.
627
00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:22,200
All families have something traumatic that has occurred
628
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:22,920
in their life.
629
00:29:23,260 --> 00:29:23,660
Right.
630
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,500
You know, and I can think of examples
631
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:30,140
where siblings may not talk to each other.
632
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,420
And there's rivalry that goes way back.
633
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:36,820
And there's leadership decisions that aren't made.
634
00:29:37,540 --> 00:29:41,600
And there's even spousal conflict related to this.
635
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:44,180
And it comes out in passive-aggressive board
636
00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:46,240
meetings because maybe they still work together or
637
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,440
slow decisions.
638
00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:48,480
It costs the company.
639
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800
It impacts the value of the company.
640
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,340
And then facilitating those conversations and working through
641
00:29:55,340 --> 00:29:57,580
the conflict helps them recover.
642
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:58,560
And I can think of a lot of
643
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:58,880
examples.
644
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,940
So what does that actually look like week
645
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:05,280
to week for a family to commit and
646
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,160
to tend to the roots?
647
00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:13,220
You need to identify those family leaders that
648
00:30:13,220 --> 00:30:18,000
see the importance of the whole system, that
649
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000
they want to find ways to learn and
650
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,800
grow and begin to have those conversations.
651
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,060
It's my opinion and the opinion of the
652
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:30,060
people that have worked in this field, you
653
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:31,900
can't do it without outside help.
654
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,320
That third party facilitator is a must to
655
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:41,800
get it because you can't facilitate your own
656
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,020
dynamics without triggering things that maybe wasn't intended
657
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:48,900
where somebody else couldn't.
658
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,180
A third party can help think that through
659
00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:57,300
deeper and realize that the intent helps stabilize
660
00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:58,240
the conversation.
661
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,700
And then how the receiver.
662
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:00,260
Yeah.
663
00:31:00,380 --> 00:31:02,660
Because they show that, Hey, this wasn't intended
664
00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:05,160
to offend you or, and they give them,
665
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:06,880
they shine a light on what the truth
666
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,740
is in the interaction.
667
00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:09,300
Very valuable.
668
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,840
So what do you say to somebody who
669
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,980
has, they want to engage in tending the
670
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:15,020
roots, but a lot of the part of
671
00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:16,520
the family does not want to engage in
672
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,100
this process?
673
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,100
I would say that the elder who are,
674
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,320
have the influence in the business are the
675
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,880
ones that have to support the idea and
676
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,960
be committed to it.
677
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,440
The elder generation has a critical role to
678
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,480
play, even if they're.
679
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,420
Even if they're not in the business anymore.
680
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,220
Yes.
681
00:31:40,660 --> 00:31:40,860
Okay.
682
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,700
Like they've given the business to the second
683
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:43,820
generation or whatever.
684
00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:46,140
Let's go back to what I said earlier.
685
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:48,900
It's not about the business that we're talking
686
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:49,180
about.
687
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,700
It's about the family and it's about the
688
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:55,160
enterprising family that has room for everybody, even
689
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,000
those not being in the business.
690
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,800
They have something to contribute, even if they're
691
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:00,980
pursuing other careers.
692
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,620
Oftentimes in this concept of the enterprising family
693
00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:07,580
is there's, they have ideas that they want
694
00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:10,040
to pursue on their own with their spouse
695
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:10,780
and so forth.
696
00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:12,160
How do we support that?
697
00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:15,280
How does that core family business provide them
698
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,980
with the opportunities to.
699
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:19,560
To do that.
700
00:32:19,820 --> 00:32:21,960
Maybe they want to, maybe somebody wants to
701
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,980
become a dentist and they're really passionate about
702
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:25,720
it and if the business would support them
703
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,160
with that.
704
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Yes.
705
00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:28,100
Because you'd hate to see them have a
706
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:31,640
passion for dentistry and not go pursue it.
707
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:31,860
Right.
708
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,300
Well, and they have something to contribute from
709
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:40,120
their own experience of serving others or helping
710
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:40,540
others.
711
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,840
And oftentimes you'll find that when you have
712
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,180
a family gathering or family counselor, really those
713
00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:51,520
structures become important that help you come together.
714
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Maybe it's once a year, maybe it's once
715
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,240
every six months.
716
00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:59,180
It's important to look at the knowledge and
717
00:32:59,180 --> 00:33:03,180
talents that live within the family, but not
718
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:04,620
necessarily in the business.
719
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:05,280
In the business.
720
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:06,680
That's a family conversation.
721
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,080
So what are the conversations families avoid most
722
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,160
when it comes to who takes over?
723
00:33:12,260 --> 00:33:17,720
Well, they avoid thinking in terms of who's
724
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,380
the most qualified and what kind of qualifications
725
00:33:21,380 --> 00:33:24,560
are required to take us into the future.
726
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,220
Oftentimes it's not a family member.
727
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:33,080
Oftentimes they maybe have not had those experiences
728
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,000
outside, but they can learn that.
729
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,940
And that's why it's strongly encouraged that family
730
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:45,860
members go work someone else for a period
731
00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:47,840
of five years or so to get that
732
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,120
inside experience plus confidence that they know they
733
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,340
can, they, they earned it.
734
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:57,680
And so, but the tradition has been moving
735
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,380
it within the family, but it puts it
736
00:34:00,380 --> 00:34:01,360
at great risk.
737
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,060
Stewardship is more, most critical to think in
738
00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:08,960
terms of who are the best custodians or
739
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,500
stewards to keep this alive.
740
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:13,600
And, and it could be a non-family
741
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,400
member oftentimes can be, or even somebody that
742
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,580
married into the family oftentimes can be that
743
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:22,060
person.
744
00:34:23,659 --> 00:34:27,600
And if, if that's developed internally, that's been
745
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,699
a very favorable environment.
746
00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:32,340
If it's a family member themselves that have
747
00:34:32,340 --> 00:34:35,320
maybe ran a division or proved that they
748
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,219
can build a team and that sort of
749
00:34:38,219 --> 00:34:38,480
thing.
750
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,980
So, so stewardship, I'd like to think of
751
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:43,380
much more than ownership.
752
00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:45,060
We don't really own anything.
753
00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:47,920
I mean, if you have a few key
754
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,420
people go or, you know, because of the
755
00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:53,080
toxicity or whatever that might be going on,
756
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,880
it can have a major impact on the
757
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:56,780
business itself.
758
00:34:57,060 --> 00:34:57,160
Yeah.
759
00:34:57,300 --> 00:34:58,860
And so how do we- You don't
760
00:34:58,860 --> 00:34:59,620
really own the business.
761
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:00,740
It's God's business.
762
00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:03,280
It's like, it's like tithing, you know, you
763
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,440
tithing releases the power of money over your
764
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:06,800
life.
765
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,260
If, if, if it's, it's hard thing to
766
00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:11,780
do, but it releases the same thing with
767
00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:14,500
the business and it gets them thinking about,
768
00:35:14,660 --> 00:35:16,480
well, we may not have the right people
769
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,640
yet in the family.
770
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:19,580
And we're going to go and find the
771
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:21,620
right people for the stewardship of the business.
772
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,480
And what if they've already put people in
773
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,920
positions where they're not really ready?
774
00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:28,680
Well, that, that has to start at the
775
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,920
family level of talking about our commitment to
776
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,520
see this continue from generation to generation.
777
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,480
And in many cases, if you've established some
778
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,200
outside counsel or advisors and so forth to
779
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:48,400
talk that through, but recognize that we, we
780
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,360
know that we need someone that can take
781
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,140
this forward.
782
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,280
People that are there, we have to understand
783
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,940
what their aspirations and wishes are.
784
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,940
And it becomes a nurturing developmental issue.
785
00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:04,940
Is it someone that is committed to growing
786
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:05,660
and learning?
787
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,940
And you have to provide that support and
788
00:36:08,940 --> 00:36:11,740
that opportunity for them to grow and develop
789
00:36:11,740 --> 00:36:12,380
and nurture.
790
00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:17,360
It's, it's nurturing the human resource, not commanding
791
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,060
it or telling it what it needs to
792
00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:19,180
do.
793
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:21,680
Nobody changes because somebody tells you to change.
794
00:36:21,940 --> 00:36:22,100
Yeah.
795
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,580
We change because of our own self-discovery
796
00:36:24,580 --> 00:36:28,460
and, and, and knowing that somebody really cares
797
00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:31,020
for me to be the best I can
798
00:36:31,020 --> 00:36:31,380
be.
799
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:31,840
Yeah.
800
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,580
I know that's in that just knowing that
801
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:39,580
they're, they're not forcing a person to do
802
00:36:39,580 --> 00:36:41,200
a leadership role who isn't ready as well.
803
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,300
And I've seen that happen.
804
00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:45,540
And then there's no conversation about it and
805
00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:47,640
pointing out like they've, they've shown really that
806
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,440
their behavior means that they're really not ready.
807
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:51,980
Maybe they can't regulate themselves emotionally.
808
00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:56,960
You know, and leaders, leaders are, there's certain
809
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,020
qualities that you're going to have that show
810
00:36:59,020 --> 00:37:00,100
that you're ready for this.
811
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:03,320
So when does the next generation need a
812
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,640
voice and what happens when they don't get
813
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:04,920
one?
814
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,460
They need a voice as soon as you
815
00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:08,360
can give it to them.
816
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,000
I know families that have family gatherings and
817
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,300
a 10 year old or 12 year olds
818
00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:17,720
voices in the room.
819
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,400
And oftentimes you're shocked at what they pick
820
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,100
up and say and do.
821
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:24,580
How much insight they have.
822
00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:29,100
And so, and nurturing that can make it
823
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:32,520
much more attractive to them if they want
824
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,620
to come back someday or knowing that, that
825
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:38,400
family system is a very vibrant and very
826
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,800
healthy environment.
827
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:44,140
And so families have unlimited opportunities in my
828
00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:47,280
opinion today, if they do their work and
829
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,660
realize how living systems and nurturing and, and
830
00:37:50,660 --> 00:37:54,560
the living tree concept by, by cultivating it,
831
00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:57,240
by pulling the weeds, by making sure that
832
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:01,300
it's not infested or toxic can have such
833
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,520
positive results.
834
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,960
So what happens when part of the family
835
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:06,880
doesn't have a voice?
836
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:12,480
Well, I think that if they don't have
837
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,720
a voice, then you're probably going to see
838
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:16,360
it in a strain.
839
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,900
It's going to be, it's going to be
840
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:18,200
toxic.
841
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,040
People want their voices heard.
842
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,840
They don't necessarily think that you should follow
843
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,340
what they say.
844
00:38:25,420 --> 00:38:27,180
They just want to know that they have
845
00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:31,720
the opportunity to, and you're asking them that
846
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:32,980
your voice is important.
847
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,040
And you're listening and trying to understand.
848
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:35,680
That's right.
849
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:39,740
Because I've found many times that that's all
850
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:40,620
they're asking for.
851
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,220
And they honor and respect that and are
852
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:47,380
explaining that, you know, the people in charge
853
00:38:47,380 --> 00:38:48,920
are taking that information.
854
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,180
They've considered it and, and respect and honor
855
00:38:53,180 --> 00:38:56,160
and appreciate they're willing to participate.
856
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,640
So how do you tell the difference between
857
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,760
a family wound and a business disagreement?
858
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,180
So like the difference between a business disagreement
859
00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:09,220
and a family wound wearing a business suit,
860
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,220
how did you tell the difference?
861
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,920
Well, I would say the family wound is
862
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,100
highly emotional.
863
00:39:18,220 --> 00:39:26,000
And it's the business wound, just logically, you
864
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,880
can probably talk it through if it's without
865
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,700
the human emotions.
866
00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:35,060
But the family wound is not uncommon at
867
00:39:35,060 --> 00:39:35,340
all.
868
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,620
And, and avoiding it is not going to
869
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:40,020
solve it.
870
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:41,820
It's going to just fester and grow.
871
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,580
And it's going to put the whole organization
872
00:39:43,580 --> 00:39:44,240
at risk.
873
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:48,320
Because that's what is toxic underneath the soil.
874
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,280
And it looks and appears oftentimes that a
875
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,740
business from the outside is doing well.
876
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,640
But if it's not addressing that, it'll collapse
877
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,340
at some point.
878
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:03,260
Isn't that so true?
879
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,860
And then you're surprised when you see what's
880
00:40:05,860 --> 00:40:06,200
going on.
881
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,580
This business is sold and it's devalued and
882
00:40:09,580 --> 00:40:11,620
everyone's wondering, well, what really happened?
883
00:40:11,660 --> 00:40:12,780
But it was all under the soil.
884
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,280
I see when it's really a personal family
885
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,040
issue, you see little tiny things becoming huge
886
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:20,380
things.
887
00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:23,840
And this resistance to decisions and you're wondering
888
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:24,920
what's really going on there.
889
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:27,620
And an outsider that's not in the family
890
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:30,580
can usually spot it and say, well, if
891
00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:32,540
what, this is something else that we should
892
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:33,400
probably discuss here.
893
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,100
What's really, you go rise above that interaction
894
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,420
and point out and say, what's really behind
895
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:38,740
that?
896
00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:40,960
How is that connected to the past and
897
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,180
getting them to engage in it?
898
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:43,900
Because if they do, they can have real
899
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:44,460
breakthroughs.
900
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:47,000
So, what's a simple first step that a
901
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,320
family can take when it comes to commitment?
902
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,500
Engage in dialogue.
903
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:55,440
Engage in dialogue.
904
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:55,920
Yeah.
905
00:40:56,180 --> 00:40:57,160
I mean, communicate.
906
00:40:57,340 --> 00:40:58,540
So, what does that look like?
907
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:05,620
Bring together and share the intent and the
908
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:07,280
purpose of what we're wanting to do.
909
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,200
And think through, think through, do we want
910
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,240
this legacy to continue in future generations?
911
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,900
And are we willing to do whatever it
912
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:20,220
takes to make that happen?
913
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:26,260
With God's help and faith, there's no way
914
00:41:26,260 --> 00:41:29,980
that it won't happen in the sense of
915
00:41:29,980 --> 00:41:34,680
helping because it takes courage and it takes
916
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,160
risk and it takes faith.
917
00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:44,780
And so, having dialogue and clearly saying that
918
00:41:44,780 --> 00:41:47,960
we can, we want to talk about the
919
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:48,720
future of the business.
920
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,320
And I've found that if somebody has been
921
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,380
running a business without the dialogue and maybe
922
00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:57,020
they made some mistakes as they listened to
923
00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:59,020
this episode and they think, well, I've already
924
00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:01,000
made some of these decisions that I'm hearing
925
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,240
about and I want to, I don't know
926
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:05,020
what I can do.
927
00:42:05,140 --> 00:42:07,000
I think apologizing and saying, you know, there's
928
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,140
some ways that I missed the mark and
929
00:42:09,140 --> 00:42:12,240
I want to start having this dialogue now
930
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,100
and listen to all the different parts of
931
00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:16,400
the family and take the steps.
932
00:42:16,780 --> 00:42:19,920
I think when I was a kid, we
933
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,480
had family meetings usually on Sundays and I
934
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:25,940
look back and think those were some of
935
00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:28,440
the best times because it was my dad
936
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,860
was passionate about us having these family meetings.
937
00:42:30,860 --> 00:42:33,940
And I think we talked about some things
938
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:35,280
and they were later.
939
00:42:35,380 --> 00:42:37,340
It was really probably when I was 10
940
00:42:37,340 --> 00:42:40,220
or older, but we could bring whatever we
941
00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:42,980
wanted to the table and it was helpful
942
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:45,220
and really positive right now, even as I
943
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:46,280
think about it right now.
944
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,680
So, that is such a big deal to
945
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:50,420
start the dialogue.
946
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:52,680
And who's involved in those discussions, Clem?
947
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,240
Well, I think the person that's most committed
948
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,000
and interested to see it work.
949
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:58,840
Okay.
950
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,220
You know, I think it can start from
951
00:43:01,220 --> 00:43:08,660
a non-employed family member that sees the
952
00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:13,000
family and wants those conversations to happen.
953
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,160
Might be the younger generation.
954
00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:22,400
Ideally, the elder generation who has typically the
955
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,940
respect and the power and the influence, sees
956
00:43:25,940 --> 00:43:28,720
the opportunity to really step into that.
957
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,080
And it's timely.
958
00:43:30,260 --> 00:43:32,380
We need the wisdom of the elders.
959
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:33,300
Yes.
960
00:43:33,580 --> 00:43:36,400
The rising generation is not going to succeed
961
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,660
without repeating all the errors that they're going
962
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:43,500
to go through if they don't listen to
963
00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:44,000
the elders.
964
00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:47,780
And the elders are not going to succeed
965
00:43:47,780 --> 00:43:50,920
unless they nurture and develop the rising generation
966
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,320
and mentor and coach them.
967
00:43:52,660 --> 00:43:54,640
There's got to be an integration of those
968
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:55,280
generations.
969
00:43:55,860 --> 00:43:57,860
And you just need one or two from
970
00:43:57,860 --> 00:44:01,800
each generation that really want to take that
971
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,460
step, that have an influence.
972
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,100
Even if they don't work in the business
973
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:05,360
currently.
974
00:44:05,540 --> 00:44:05,640
Yes.
975
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:08,380
They can come back and start now.
976
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,800
And ideally, oftentimes, because you can get into
977
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,920
such things as family champion, family councils, and
978
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,020
so forth, there's a governance system that needs
979
00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:22,020
to reflect the voice of the family.
980
00:44:22,860 --> 00:44:24,980
That voice is critically heard.
981
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:31,260
Years ago, the focus was on the building
982
00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:33,920
that business and making it strong and getting
983
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,040
rid of the interference of the family because
984
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,000
they're messing it up.
985
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:40,760
When in reality, it's the unraveling of the
986
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:46,300
family guarantees eventually the unraveling of the business.
987
00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:49,620
If you build a stronger family, you'll build
988
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:50,520
a stronger business.
989
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:52,780
So let's talk about the second decision.
990
00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:57,180
What is that that these family business owners
991
00:44:57,180 --> 00:44:57,700
can make?
992
00:44:59,060 --> 00:45:06,940
The second decision is really the stewardship concept
993
00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:10,880
that we don't own this.
994
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:16,180
We need to serve a higher purpose and
995
00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:19,460
ask for that help and that guidance for
996
00:45:19,460 --> 00:45:22,700
us to be able to come together and
997
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:26,180
really be able to recognize that this is
998
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:26,880
God's work.
999
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:30,600
He put us in this position for a
1000
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:30,900
reason.
1001
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,360
There's an old saying that I think about
1002
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,880
it often because my wife reminded me of
1003
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:38,040
it.
1004
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,420
God doesn't call the qualified.
1005
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:44,340
He qualifies those he's called.
1006
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:48,180
And I've often, my wife would say, you're
1007
00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:50,140
no more qualified to do this work than
1008
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:50,480
anybody.
1009
00:45:50,660 --> 00:45:54,440
You haven't grown up in the environment.
1010
00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:59,540
But I realized that my deep desire and
1011
00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:02,020
recognition of the unique gifts and talents God
1012
00:46:02,020 --> 00:46:04,640
had given me just aligned to what the
1013
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,100
work I am doing today.
1014
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,020
And the fact that all those ups and
1015
00:46:11,020 --> 00:46:15,540
downs and struggles are duplicated by every family.
1016
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,400
There is no such thing as a perfect
1017
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:17,880
family.
1018
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,740
No matter how we try to glaze it
1019
00:46:20,740 --> 00:46:23,640
over or think we'll be embarrassed if any
1020
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,700
of this gets out.
1021
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:25,480
Oh, yeah.
1022
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,540
There's a community of families.
1023
00:46:32,420 --> 00:46:32,580
Yeah.
1024
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,600
And that has been a struggle personally, just
1025
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,600
to accept my own, my challenges.
1026
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,440
And in my family, we've had addiction.
1027
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,440
And I've gone through a divorce and they're
1028
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:44,960
not perfect.
1029
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,920
I don't wish those things had happened, but
1030
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,280
we have this messiness to families, which we
1031
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,400
can actually look at and say, how can
1032
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,920
this actually be used as an asset that
1033
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:57,920
we've gone through these things?
1034
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,020
It's hard to understand, but I know it's
1035
00:47:01,020 --> 00:47:01,320
true.
1036
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,500
Well, you know, you bring up a great
1037
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:07,400
point because for years, I was reluctant in
1038
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,260
the mid 80s when the economic times were
1039
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:11,380
pretty tough.
1040
00:47:13,820 --> 00:47:18,520
I declared bankruptcy and I was embarrassed by
1041
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:18,720
that.
1042
00:47:18,820 --> 00:47:20,240
People would tell me, well, how can you
1043
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:23,160
help other companies when you can't help yourself?
1044
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:23,920
Having gone through that?
1045
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:24,820
Yeah, yeah.
1046
00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:28,780
But what come out of that, it was
1047
00:47:28,780 --> 00:47:29,620
my PhD.
1048
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:33,320
I realized, and I can sense and see
1049
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,300
the mindset because I had it myself.
1050
00:47:36,740 --> 00:47:38,920
It was my, I didn't listen to what
1051
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,400
the voice was telling me.
1052
00:47:40,580 --> 00:47:43,180
And as I look back on it, it
1053
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:46,580
was suggested by the attorney and my accountant.
1054
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,040
It was, it was nothing compared to it.
1055
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:50,220
Yeah.
1056
00:47:50,380 --> 00:47:51,760
Because it was, it was.
1057
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:54,840
That's, there's a lot of like Dan Sullivan
1058
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,740
and Dave Ramsey.
1059
00:47:56,740 --> 00:48:00,140
You heard his story when he declared bankruptcy
1060
00:48:00,140 --> 00:48:02,620
and he started this massive business.
1061
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,220
And what I found, my group, my most
1062
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:07,680
successful clients had all gone through it.
1063
00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:08,220
Wow.
1064
00:48:08,380 --> 00:48:09,200
In one form or another.
1065
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,980
Some of them didn't necessarily declare, but they
1066
00:48:13,980 --> 00:48:14,520
were there.
1067
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,860
And so I think the beautiful part of
1068
00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:23,600
it about failure is the embracing the failure
1069
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,920
because that's the opportunity we can really learn.
1070
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:27,800
To help people.
1071
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,720
To help people and serve people.
1072
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,340
Because that's the path and pattern of life.
1073
00:48:34,740 --> 00:48:35,220
It is.
1074
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:37,900
Yeah, it's painful.
1075
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:38,820
Embrace the pain.
1076
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,840
And so this stewardship part, we're talking the
1077
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:43,420
ownership.
1078
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,100
It carries what the family wants up.
1079
00:48:47,220 --> 00:48:49,580
That ownership carries what the family wants up
1080
00:48:49,580 --> 00:48:51,700
to the business and what the business needs
1081
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:52,740
back down to the family.
1082
00:48:52,740 --> 00:48:55,660
So governance is the bark that protects it.
1083
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:56,640
Who owns what?
1084
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,240
Who decides what and how?
1085
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,040
And that article that we're going to actually
1086
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,800
have in the show notes on the enterprising
1087
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,660
family describes a real estate family.
1088
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:09,360
They passed ownership to the second generation, but
1089
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,780
there was no shareholder agreement.
1090
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,260
And decisions got fragmented and they slowed down.
1091
00:49:15,340 --> 00:49:17,220
And then they lost a prime property to
1092
00:49:17,220 --> 00:49:18,220
a faster competitor.
1093
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,120
Yet they fixed it with a clear decision
1094
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:21,480
map.
1095
00:49:22,220 --> 00:49:24,840
And an advisory board and a shareholder agreement.
1096
00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:27,840
So why is this attitude of, we'll figure
1097
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,660
it out when the time comes, so dangerous,
1098
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:29,980
Clem?
1099
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:32,160
Because it's too late.
1100
00:49:33,940 --> 00:49:36,860
In our world today, we don't have the
1101
00:49:36,860 --> 00:49:42,440
privilege of a time with AI, artificial intelligence,
1102
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,400
information moving so rapidly and so forth.
1103
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Whereas years ago, you could say, we can
1104
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,960
recover in the next five years or 10
1105
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:52,440
years.
1106
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:55,940
Today, you have to be out ahead of
1107
00:49:55,940 --> 00:49:56,080
it.
1108
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,000
You have to be able to address these
1109
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,580
issues when you don't need to.
1110
00:50:03,460 --> 00:50:07,240
And that's why the time is now.
1111
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,540
Because things can rapidly unravel.
1112
00:50:11,820 --> 00:50:14,300
And the elephants in the room, it's not
1113
00:50:14,300 --> 00:50:15,100
being talked about.
1114
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,200
I always find that when the elephant is
1115
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,120
brought out, everybody knows it's there.
1116
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,180
The tension starts to decrease over the next
1117
00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:22,700
couple of months.
1118
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:26,220
And people's misconceptions, if they don't talk about
1119
00:50:26,220 --> 00:50:27,020
it, can just grow.
1120
00:50:27,580 --> 00:50:28,760
They feed their fears.
1121
00:50:29,020 --> 00:50:30,740
And I think, even for me, I mean,
1122
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,680
there's times I think these crazy thoughts about,
1123
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,960
just because I'm a middle child and I
1124
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,980
felt excluded at times.
1125
00:50:37,060 --> 00:50:38,980
And even when holidays are planned at my
1126
00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:41,420
brother's house, I can have this attitude of,
1127
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,540
they're doing that intentionally.
1128
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,480
And I don't believe it necessarily is.
1129
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,540
But if I don't talk about it, which
1130
00:50:47,540 --> 00:50:48,920
I've learned to do and say, hey, you
1131
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,020
know, I'd like, or this is what's on
1132
00:50:51,020 --> 00:50:51,420
my mind.
1133
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:52,100
Is this accurate?
1134
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:55,040
So, owning a business, working in the business,
1135
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,080
and leading the business are three different things.
1136
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,100
How do you help families separate them?
1137
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:01,620
They're one system.
1138
00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:06,670
Go back to, it's one system.
1139
00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:08,650
What do you stand for?
1140
00:51:08,750 --> 00:51:09,630
Why do you exist?
1141
00:51:09,770 --> 00:51:10,590
What's your purpose?
1142
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:13,510
And how are you serving others?
1143
00:51:14,770 --> 00:51:23,070
Because that taproot, those virtues, those principles that
1144
00:51:23,070 --> 00:51:28,590
you stand for, permeate the whole tree.
1145
00:51:28,830 --> 00:51:34,550
So, historically, they put them in separate silos.
1146
00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:37,030
Today, it's one system.
1147
00:51:37,070 --> 00:51:37,550
It's the tree.
1148
00:51:37,590 --> 00:51:39,690
The key is to get the system healthy.
1149
00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:43,730
And it starts with the couple, the roots,
1150
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:47,630
the principles within the organization.
1151
00:51:48,970 --> 00:51:52,990
And it will permeate within the business because
1152
00:51:52,990 --> 00:51:57,550
it provides the very nature of what we
1153
00:51:57,550 --> 00:52:00,410
stand for and why we exist that goes
1154
00:52:00,410 --> 00:52:04,370
into how you treat your customers and care
1155
00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:07,510
about your customers and your fellow workers.
1156
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:11,930
And so, that's why I go back.
1157
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:16,910
If you read any of the living organizations
1158
00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:19,570
work by Norman Wolfe and his wife, Jane,
1159
00:52:19,850 --> 00:52:23,110
it goes in-depth on how systems work.
1160
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:27,090
And now, you go through that process and
1161
00:52:27,090 --> 00:52:32,090
it really can be overwhelming to understand how
1162
00:52:32,090 --> 00:52:33,990
natural living systems.
1163
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:36,230
But everybody's living it every day.
1164
00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:38,810
It's not something that we're not doing.
1165
00:52:38,930 --> 00:52:40,170
It's just creating awareness.
1166
00:52:40,890 --> 00:52:41,230
Okay.
1167
00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:43,070
It's recreating consciousness.
1168
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:48,270
Just like this conversation, there'll be a number
1169
00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:50,570
of people that aren't ready to go through
1170
00:52:50,570 --> 00:52:51,970
that process.
1171
00:52:52,350 --> 00:52:55,370
But there'll be some that feel like we've
1172
00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:56,250
got to do something.
1173
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:59,430
I find that some people are interested in
1174
00:52:59,430 --> 00:53:00,270
getting things clarified.
1175
00:53:00,610 --> 00:53:01,350
Some people are resistant.
1176
00:53:01,570 --> 00:53:03,810
So, what should be decided and written down
1177
00:53:03,810 --> 00:53:05,690
before the founder steps back?
1178
00:53:06,670 --> 00:53:12,360
I would say the founder transcends to another
1179
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:12,780
level.
1180
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:18,000
The founder has something to give back through
1181
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,540
the stories he can share with the rising
1182
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:27,600
generation, with the grandchildren, and the history and
1183
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:32,460
the legacy that gets passed on.
1184
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:38,120
And so, when we take out the elders
1185
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,360
within the generation, I've said this before, and
1186
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,240
there's an old adage, when an elder dies,
1187
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:48,140
but an African proverb, a library burns down.
1188
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,460
And the same is true in the family.
1189
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:52,660
But when the elders die and we didn't
1190
00:53:52,660 --> 00:53:54,600
have a chance to really know what they
1191
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,080
thought or what their story was, what were
1192
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,320
some of the things that we wished we
1193
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:02,180
would have asked them.
1194
00:54:02,180 --> 00:54:03,080
It's a huge loss.
1195
00:54:03,260 --> 00:54:03,980
Yes, it is.
1196
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,080
So, I go back to what I was
1197
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:06,360
saying.
1198
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:12,660
I've seen the convergence of the silos and
1199
00:54:12,660 --> 00:54:16,900
even this article referred to about the living
1200
00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:17,280
tree.
1201
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,060
It's converged into one system where it's the
1202
00:54:21,060 --> 00:54:21,560
family.
1203
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,560
You take care and strengthen and develop the
1204
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:25,420
family system.
1205
00:54:26,140 --> 00:54:30,000
It will permeate how the business gets run
1206
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,580
through the governance and through the expectations that
1207
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:34,380
the board has.
1208
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,420
Are we living up to the purpose that
1209
00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:39,500
the families identify of why they exist and
1210
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:40,280
what they're trying to do?
1211
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,020
Those questions need to be asked and answered.
1212
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,420
What are the owner's dreams and hopes?
1213
00:54:45,780 --> 00:54:47,840
And so, sometimes I see where the owner
1214
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,460
will pass it to the second generation and
1215
00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:51,080
they don't want to work as much in
1216
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:51,560
the business.
1217
00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:53,860
Like even saying that, well, I don't want
1218
00:54:53,860 --> 00:54:55,800
to go to the office anymore because that
1219
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,240
undermines their performance or I'll feel pressure to
1220
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:01,080
step in and do what I did before
1221
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,260
when I was the president or the CEO.
1222
00:55:03,940 --> 00:55:04,800
What do you say to that?
1223
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,780
I'd say they're right.
1224
00:55:07,140 --> 00:55:08,060
They're right, okay.
1225
00:55:08,260 --> 00:55:10,560
Yeah, I'd say it's not about working in
1226
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:11,080
the business.
1227
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:15,600
It's about cultivating the system, supporting the system,
1228
00:55:15,740 --> 00:55:19,360
being available to the grandchildren, great-grandchildren, the
1229
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,920
tribe, whatever it might be, sharing their stories
1230
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,660
to the employees.
1231
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,620
And people love to hear the stories.
1232
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:27,300
Meeting with them.
1233
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:28,160
Yeah, meeting with them.
1234
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,000
Having lunch and coffee and then I've also
1235
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,320
seen it where the spouse survives the founder
1236
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,660
and they feel unqualified to be that person
1237
00:55:37,660 --> 00:55:39,540
because they didn't work in the day-to
1238
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,500
-day but they now are the person involved
1239
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:46,600
because their spouse, who was the founder, died.
1240
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,200
And they're insecure about it, conveying that information.
1241
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,040
What would you say to them?
1242
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,540
Well, I would say come back to the
1243
00:55:55,540 --> 00:56:00,200
family and share with them what you know,
1244
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,760
the spouse that passed away and what those
1245
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,740
principles, if they were the founding spouse because
1246
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:07,940
they're very much a part of that success.
1247
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:08,900
They're more than they know.
1248
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,600
Yeah, much more than they know.
1249
00:56:11,060 --> 00:56:14,320
Build good governance systems and structures.
1250
00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:18,900
But that's based on what they've experienced and
1251
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:19,240
lived.
1252
00:56:19,540 --> 00:56:23,380
They share that and it begins to plant
1253
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,640
the seeds in other people's minds and hearts.
1254
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,860
And not think of it in terms of,
1255
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,100
I got this load to carry.
1256
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,280
You've got the whole family to help you
1257
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,100
carry it as well as the...
1258
00:56:35,780 --> 00:56:38,940
Because I've seen them in interactions where you
1259
00:56:38,940 --> 00:56:40,360
ask them questions and they know a lot
1260
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:41,280
more than they realize.
1261
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:43,960
And they have this history because they were
1262
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,600
living it without even knowing it.
1263
00:56:46,700 --> 00:56:49,100
And they didn't even work in the business
1264
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:51,740
potentially, but they did work in the business
1265
00:56:51,740 --> 00:56:53,680
a lot more than they thought, which is
1266
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:54,200
pretty amazing.
1267
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,460
Beautiful about the spousal relationship.
1268
00:57:00,580 --> 00:57:04,660
And I've often said this, the feminine characteristics
1269
00:57:04,660 --> 00:57:07,500
are powerful.
1270
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,860
They have a sensing and an intuition that
1271
00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:14,620
oftentimes they've never worked in the business, but
1272
00:57:14,620 --> 00:57:15,420
they just know.
1273
00:57:16,460 --> 00:57:18,400
And I had that happen with my...
1274
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:25,480
My first wife died about 11 years ago
1275
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,160
and then I remarried and she passed away
1276
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:28,020
earlier this year.
1277
00:57:28,260 --> 00:57:31,720
But what I discovered was with my first
1278
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,880
wife, when I connected with Frank Carney, the
1279
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,520
co-founder of Pizza Hut, I would come
1280
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,200
home and I'd tell her, well, this is
1281
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:40,980
what Frank told me.
1282
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,400
She said, well, I've told you that several
1283
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:44,940
times.
1284
00:57:46,180 --> 00:57:48,900
And I finally woke up and realized she
1285
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:52,860
could sense and see things that I thought,
1286
00:57:53,380 --> 00:57:55,360
here's the guy that really lived it.
1287
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,000
You have to honor and respect those, the
1288
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,420
voices.
1289
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,660
That's very insightful.
1290
00:58:04,060 --> 00:58:05,180
So how do you help?
1291
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,460
What do you have to say with family
1292
00:58:07,460 --> 00:58:09,920
members who own part of the business, yet
1293
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,080
they actually don't work in it?
1294
00:58:11,620 --> 00:58:12,260
They're stewards.
1295
00:58:14,140 --> 00:58:17,600
They have to care about the perpetuation of
1296
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:18,940
the business as a steward.
1297
00:58:18,980 --> 00:58:20,620
But sometimes they will say like, I don't
1298
00:58:20,620 --> 00:58:21,380
know how it runs.
1299
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:22,220
How can I contribute?
1300
00:58:22,540 --> 00:58:23,900
They're not operating the business.
1301
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:28,800
They're guiding the direction and they're guardians of
1302
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,060
the vision and the principles of what was
1303
00:58:33,060 --> 00:58:34,560
passed on to us.
1304
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:36,320
That's a great question.
1305
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:40,540
But it's, see, that's what, living systems are
1306
00:58:40,540 --> 00:58:45,880
much more dynamic than the traditional, you might
1307
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,000
say, path that we've been taught in what's
1308
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,620
called a mechanistic or machine model of logic
1309
00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:53,540
and everything else.
1310
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:56,600
But when you know the intent and purpose,
1311
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,460
you're a custodian of that to see that
1312
00:58:59,460 --> 00:59:00,240
it's passed on.
1313
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,700
And just even with simple questions because they're
1314
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:05,400
valued, not working in the business and observing
1315
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,360
and supporting whoever is working in the business.
1316
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,640
The ownership has, even if they don't work,
1317
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,680
they still have a huge, massive role in
1318
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,360
keeping the family healthy and having the conversations
1319
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,240
and understanding the dynamics, understanding where everyone else
1320
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,160
stands.
1321
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:22,820
And them seeing that, because I've had challenges
1322
00:59:22,820 --> 00:59:24,660
with that at times, getting people to see
1323
00:59:24,660 --> 00:59:26,160
how important their role is.
1324
00:59:26,300 --> 00:59:26,600
Oh, yeah.
1325
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:27,860
And convincing them of that.
1326
00:59:28,060 --> 00:59:29,200
But I mean, selling them on that.
1327
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,920
So, what's the third decision, Clem, when it
1328
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:33,380
comes to this?
1329
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,280
And it's related to the tree here.
1330
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,800
So, that business owners can do to pass
1331
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:38,960
it down the right way.
1332
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,750
They need to define the purpose and the
1333
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:46,410
future vision.
1334
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:50,550
The intent and the reason that this should
1335
00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:52,630
perpetuate for generations to come.
1336
00:59:53,180 --> 00:59:54,430
They have a...
1337
00:59:54,430 --> 00:59:56,870
It's the most critical at work that the
1338
00:59:56,870 --> 01:00:00,530
most difficult for people to do is to
1339
01:00:00,530 --> 01:00:04,910
be able to clarify something simple, but something
1340
01:00:04,910 --> 01:00:07,310
clear about why we exist.
1341
01:00:07,630 --> 01:00:07,790
Okay.
1342
01:00:08,330 --> 01:00:16,150
And that's not just a separate activity.
1343
01:00:16,470 --> 01:00:22,030
That's engaging family members in dialogue in terms
1344
01:00:22,030 --> 01:00:22,930
of...
1345
01:00:22,930 --> 01:00:23,490
Making that decision.
1346
01:00:23,610 --> 01:00:24,610
Making that decision.
1347
01:00:24,850 --> 01:00:26,830
A big part of that is really understand
1348
01:00:26,830 --> 01:00:27,710
where you came from.
1349
01:00:28,670 --> 01:00:32,310
That has a huge influence on us in
1350
01:00:32,310 --> 01:00:34,810
self-awareness and awareness of the legacy that
1351
01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:37,070
was passed on to us and honor that
1352
01:00:37,070 --> 01:00:39,110
legacy from our ancestors.
1353
01:00:40,830 --> 01:00:43,590
You know, it's in the article to the
1354
01:00:43,590 --> 01:00:44,010
canopy.
1355
01:00:44,310 --> 01:00:45,810
The canopy of the tree is the actual
1356
01:00:45,810 --> 01:00:48,850
business where people can see the visual, the
1357
01:00:48,850 --> 01:00:49,530
growth happen.
1358
01:00:49,530 --> 01:00:52,210
And it's the roots and the health of
1359
01:00:52,210 --> 01:00:53,670
the roots and then the health of the
1360
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:56,230
trunk are paramount.
1361
01:00:57,170 --> 01:01:00,150
Termites, it references, are hidden problems that eat
1362
01:01:00,150 --> 01:01:02,930
away at it while it still may look
1363
01:01:02,930 --> 01:01:04,810
healthy, but they're eating away.
1364
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:09,630
And there's five termites referenced, outdated processes, unhealthy
1365
01:01:09,630 --> 01:01:12,890
family dynamics, poor communication, low morale, high turnover,
1366
01:01:13,590 --> 01:01:16,730
a culture that resists change when the next
1367
01:01:16,730 --> 01:01:20,250
generation isn't involved yet.
1368
01:01:20,290 --> 01:01:21,390
They're resisting change.
1369
01:01:22,210 --> 01:01:26,130
So what are the termites that you see
1370
01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:27,970
most often in a family business, Clem?
1371
01:01:28,770 --> 01:01:31,250
Well, the very thing you just...
1372
01:01:31,250 --> 01:01:34,310
It's behind the scenes gossiping.
1373
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:39,370
It's behind the scenes being critical.
1374
01:01:39,950 --> 01:01:43,670
It's behind the scenes of eroding the confidence
1375
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:48,110
in that the family on the same page,
1376
01:01:48,510 --> 01:01:49,830
because people pick that up.
1377
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:53,010
They know when there's sabotaging going on.
1378
01:01:54,110 --> 01:01:59,790
Even though they aren't in on those conversations.
1379
01:02:00,230 --> 01:02:04,450
So that's the beginning of the unraveling unless
1380
01:02:04,450 --> 01:02:06,930
that gets confronted and made visible.
1381
01:02:07,950 --> 01:02:10,510
And address those, like you said so well,
1382
01:02:10,570 --> 01:02:12,210
as the elephants in the room.
1383
01:02:12,750 --> 01:02:14,450
It's for everybody's benefit.
1384
01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:17,970
The people that may not like something going
1385
01:02:17,970 --> 01:02:23,050
on has a responsibility to share that and
1386
01:02:23,050 --> 01:02:27,170
be open to the fact that you're doing
1387
01:02:27,170 --> 01:02:29,250
it because you care about others, not because
1388
01:02:29,250 --> 01:02:31,170
you have your own interests.
1389
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:34,070
Right, it's to help.
1390
01:02:34,490 --> 01:02:38,230
So they're identifying that there's comparison and jealousy
1391
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:40,990
and resentment and saying, hey, might this be
1392
01:02:40,990 --> 01:02:42,330
something we should talk about?
1393
01:02:42,550 --> 01:02:43,690
And that's very common.
1394
01:02:43,690 --> 01:02:45,550
This is not about...
1395
01:02:46,570 --> 01:02:48,510
The families have to make their choices and
1396
01:02:48,510 --> 01:02:51,790
decisions, but they have to know there's a
1397
01:02:51,790 --> 01:02:55,130
way to work that through and not just
1398
01:02:55,130 --> 01:02:58,790
harbor it because eventually it will collapse.
1399
01:03:00,050 --> 01:03:03,010
It's a given that you destroy the root
1400
01:03:03,010 --> 01:03:05,010
system, the tree will collapse.
1401
01:03:05,150 --> 01:03:06,310
Eventually will collapse.
1402
01:03:06,850 --> 01:03:08,270
And how do you find the real source
1403
01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:10,170
of the problem instead of treating the symptoms?
1404
01:03:11,330 --> 01:03:16,150
You get into the commitment that we want
1405
01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:17,130
to go a different direction.
1406
01:03:18,430 --> 01:03:21,410
Somebody has to have the courage to stand
1407
01:03:21,410 --> 01:03:24,910
up and say, you know, this...
1408
01:03:24,910 --> 01:03:25,690
One person.
1409
01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:28,130
Yes, at least one.
1410
01:03:28,290 --> 01:03:30,570
Ideally, a couple, three, whatever it is, depends
1411
01:03:30,570 --> 01:03:31,750
on the size of the family.
1412
01:03:31,890 --> 01:03:34,070
But you want to have that core group
1413
01:03:34,070 --> 01:03:36,770
that is really a steward and who cares
1414
01:03:36,770 --> 01:03:38,510
about all the family members.
1415
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:39,830
They're not isolating.
1416
01:03:40,330 --> 01:03:42,890
It's not about just addressing the needs of
1417
01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:43,470
one person.
1418
01:03:43,850 --> 01:03:48,570
It's about the canopy, the whole system of
1419
01:03:48,570 --> 01:03:51,070
health because it passes on to children and
1420
01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:51,590
grandchildren.
1421
01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:56,090
If that's a pattern, that's likely to repeat
1422
01:03:56,090 --> 01:03:57,530
itself in the next generation.
1423
01:03:57,890 --> 01:04:00,610
But if that pattern is broken, that's likely
1424
01:04:00,610 --> 01:04:04,830
to have great rewards for future generations.
1425
01:04:05,250 --> 01:04:07,750
And the thing that can happen is the
1426
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:10,970
symptoms are very tempting to get consumed by.
1427
01:04:11,230 --> 01:04:15,350
Somebody may have an addiction or somebody may
1428
01:04:15,350 --> 01:04:18,550
always continually cause conflict.
1429
01:04:19,310 --> 01:04:21,090
And they look and say, well, this person
1430
01:04:21,090 --> 01:04:23,950
has a problem, rather than saying, what's underneath?
1431
01:04:24,550 --> 01:04:26,670
What's underneath that's not being talked about?
1432
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:31,830
And being honest with that because that's going
1433
01:04:31,830 --> 01:04:33,350
to make the roots healthy.
1434
01:04:33,670 --> 01:04:35,410
And knowing how important that is because that's
1435
01:04:35,410 --> 01:04:37,790
the one takeaway that I would say, I
1436
01:04:37,790 --> 01:04:39,250
hope people get from listening to this is
1437
01:04:39,250 --> 01:04:40,910
if you don't tend to it and start
1438
01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:43,730
addressing it, that it may not happen in
1439
01:04:43,730 --> 01:04:44,970
the next year, it may not happen in
1440
01:04:44,970 --> 01:04:46,770
five years, but it's going to happen.
1441
01:04:47,390 --> 01:04:48,430
It's going to come out.
1442
01:04:48,590 --> 01:04:49,710
And you're seeing it now.
1443
01:04:49,810 --> 01:04:52,750
There are opportunities to recognize how it's coming
1444
01:04:52,750 --> 01:04:54,370
out now if you're willing to be honest
1445
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:57,650
and see that there's something under the surface.
1446
01:04:57,690 --> 01:04:59,350
And maybe you as a leader are contributing
1447
01:04:59,350 --> 01:04:59,930
to that.
1448
01:05:00,790 --> 01:05:06,130
Maybe you are showing a lack of willingness
1449
01:05:06,130 --> 01:05:07,550
to listen and understand.
1450
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:10,210
Maybe you are showing an inflexibility to the
1451
01:05:10,210 --> 01:05:12,030
next generation about what you want the business
1452
01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:13,910
to do now and not letting them to
1453
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:14,950
be creative.
1454
01:05:17,050 --> 01:05:18,170
It's important stuff.
1455
01:05:18,330 --> 01:05:22,970
So how do employees who aren't family, so
1456
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:23,850
we'll get into that a little bit.
1457
01:05:23,970 --> 01:05:26,150
They aren't family, but they're executives in the
1458
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:27,830
business or even just employees of the business.
1459
01:05:28,170 --> 01:05:30,630
How do they feel the effects of family
1460
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:31,010
tension?
1461
01:05:32,270 --> 01:05:35,250
Whether it's positive or negative energies that's being
1462
01:05:35,250 --> 01:05:36,470
transmitted inside.
1463
01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:37,850
And that's going to come.
1464
01:05:38,070 --> 01:05:39,710
The family's under the spotlight.
1465
01:05:40,890 --> 01:05:42,010
They are under the spotlight.
1466
01:05:42,270 --> 01:05:43,270
They're under the spotlight.
1467
01:05:44,170 --> 01:05:47,950
They know and sense if there's differences.
1468
01:05:48,790 --> 01:05:51,690
And that energy permeates all organization.
1469
01:05:52,110 --> 01:05:53,190
It doesn't go away.
1470
01:05:53,350 --> 01:05:57,530
It either is uplifted into a positive vein
1471
01:05:57,530 --> 01:06:01,410
or it's allowed to fester and continue to
1472
01:06:01,410 --> 01:06:01,990
get worse.
1473
01:06:02,970 --> 01:06:05,970
And so everybody has something to gain by
1474
01:06:05,970 --> 01:06:10,650
really caring about each other and loving the
1475
01:06:10,650 --> 01:06:12,710
work you're doing, loving the people you work
1476
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:15,370
with, loving the family members and so forth.
1477
01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:19,090
And it requires us to overcome many of
1478
01:06:19,090 --> 01:06:22,630
the temptations we have to be human.
1479
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:29,010
And how do we stand by the faith
1480
01:06:29,010 --> 01:06:31,390
and the hope and love that's so necessary
1481
01:06:31,390 --> 01:06:33,430
to sustain ourselves?
1482
01:06:34,290 --> 01:06:38,550
Yeah, it really takes people being honest with
1483
01:06:38,550 --> 01:06:38,990
themselves.
1484
01:06:40,550 --> 01:06:43,590
And I can think of, and you've probably
1485
01:06:43,590 --> 01:06:46,370
seen this before, family businesses who have people
1486
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:48,870
in positions that they're really not mature enough
1487
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:53,730
for and the owners not being willing to
1488
01:06:53,730 --> 01:06:56,330
say, I probably made a wrong move here.
1489
01:06:56,490 --> 01:06:57,950
And let's find a right position for this
1490
01:06:57,950 --> 01:06:59,630
person and help them get to the place
1491
01:06:59,630 --> 01:07:03,190
where they're emotionally, they have the leadership ability
1492
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:05,650
to actually handle the situation, which- And
1493
01:07:05,650 --> 01:07:07,290
that's a role that I think a lot
1494
01:07:07,290 --> 01:07:08,310
of elders can play.
1495
01:07:08,410 --> 01:07:09,390
They've been through it.
1496
01:07:09,510 --> 01:07:12,110
They've seen it and so forth and not
1497
01:07:12,110 --> 01:07:19,490
separate themselves from the opportunities and the responsibilities
1498
01:07:19,490 --> 01:07:23,590
to mentor and coach and be able to
1499
01:07:23,590 --> 01:07:24,910
observe.
1500
01:07:25,810 --> 01:07:31,750
Because they know oftentimes that shouldn't be happening
1501
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:34,410
or that's going to create some conflict, but
1502
01:07:34,410 --> 01:07:36,330
they don't want to overstep that bounds.
1503
01:07:38,050 --> 01:07:39,770
And that's not the case.
1504
01:07:40,070 --> 01:07:43,090
You're all responsible for the outcomes of what
1505
01:07:43,090 --> 01:07:45,290
happens with the system, no matter what age
1506
01:07:45,290 --> 01:07:47,630
no matter what role you play.
1507
01:07:47,950 --> 01:07:51,110
So how do you keep the business open
1508
01:07:51,110 --> 01:07:53,130
to change when the founder built it a
1509
01:07:53,130 --> 01:07:53,670
certain way?
1510
01:07:55,620 --> 01:07:59,020
You do that because you're guaranteed that if
1511
01:07:59,020 --> 01:08:01,380
you keep on the same path, it's not
1512
01:08:01,380 --> 01:08:03,900
going to survive unless it adapts and it's
1513
01:08:03,900 --> 01:08:11,400
flexible and it's viable to reimagine what is
1514
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,360
the world today and what are the risks
1515
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,560
that we- If they don't change.
1516
01:08:15,620 --> 01:08:16,380
If they don't change.
1517
01:08:16,380 --> 01:08:20,180
We don't have an option except to adapt
1518
01:08:20,180 --> 01:08:24,040
into a very agile, adaptive learning organization.
1519
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:26,779
If you look at the histories of these
1520
01:08:26,779 --> 01:08:28,740
family businesses, they've had to adapt a lot.
1521
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,620
They may have started multiple divisions and had
1522
01:08:31,620 --> 01:08:33,020
to change based on the marketplace.
1523
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:35,439
They may have hired a lot of people
1524
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:36,840
that weren't the right fit at times and
1525
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:37,979
made changes with that.
1526
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,200
And to know that and reflect on that
1527
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,220
because it's going to be a lot of
1528
01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:43,859
learning and growth for that second generation.
1529
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,060
I mean, I know I've heard you say
1530
01:08:45,060 --> 01:08:47,040
it's hardest to go from the first to
1531
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,000
second generation, even that it's miraculous when it
1532
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:50,399
happens.
1533
01:08:50,500 --> 01:08:52,319
Or you've referenced that before.
1534
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,300
Can you talk a little bit about that?
1535
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,460
Well, yeah, that comes from a mentor of
1536
01:08:57,460 --> 01:08:59,279
mine by the name of James E.
1537
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,560
Hughes, who's written, I don't know how many
1538
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:07,380
books, but he once said that in order
1539
01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:11,240
for a first generation to transition to a
1540
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,520
second generation or really a second to third,
1541
01:09:15,060 --> 01:09:16,319
it's an impossibility.
1542
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,000
But when it happens, it's a miracle.
1543
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:24,540
And that's how challenging, but it's also a
1544
01:09:24,540 --> 01:09:27,899
great opportunity because today things have progressed so
1545
01:09:27,899 --> 01:09:30,800
much that it's not about getting bigger and
1546
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:31,100
bigger.
1547
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,220
There's a fellow by the name of E
1548
01:09:34,220 --> 01:09:37,180
.F. Schumacher wrote the book, Small is Beautiful.
1549
01:09:37,540 --> 01:09:42,000
It's about being flexible, agile, nimble, and being
1550
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,439
adjusting, being able to adjust in different parts
1551
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,840
of the family and the organization.
1552
01:09:48,300 --> 01:09:51,420
And because you're serving a higher purpose.
1553
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:53,160
Yeah, that makes sense.
1554
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,340
So Clem, if you could challenge family business
1555
01:09:56,340 --> 01:09:58,300
leaders to do one thing to grow here,
1556
01:09:58,900 --> 01:10:00,420
what would it be?
1557
01:10:02,340 --> 01:10:05,740
Become much more familiar and more self-aware
1558
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:10,320
of why God created you and what it
1559
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,860
is that you believe he's calling you to
1560
01:10:14,860 --> 01:10:15,840
be and to do.
1561
01:10:18,380 --> 01:10:21,160
That you dream a dream so big that
1562
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:22,820
only he can help you fulfill it.
1563
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,000
And it's our own work.
1564
01:10:26,620 --> 01:10:30,120
It has to start with ourselves, the willingness
1565
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:33,040
to step up and the willingness because you
1566
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:37,160
love and care to be engaged and be
1567
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:42,260
able to support the rising generation, being able
1568
01:10:42,260 --> 01:10:44,700
to support those that have been a part
1569
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:47,640
of that legacy in a way that strengthens
1570
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:51,820
the future generations for this to continue for
1571
01:10:51,820 --> 01:10:53,240
many years to come.
1572
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,020
Yeah, be willing.
1573
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:07,080
Yeah, that's, so in summary, just briefly, 10,
1574
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,640
we have, this was not exactly how Clem
1575
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:14,340
described it, but he, three decisions were in
1576
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:17,420
summary, tend to the roots and strengthen the
1577
01:11:17,420 --> 01:11:19,000
trunk and hunt the termites.
1578
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,160
That's how it's described in the article.
1579
01:11:20,580 --> 01:11:22,520
And that's a lot of work.
1580
01:11:23,480 --> 01:11:28,700
That's some real stepping back and focusing on
1581
01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:31,220
what matters most is what I, how I
1582
01:11:31,220 --> 01:11:31,940
would describe it.
1583
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,980
So how can people get ahold of you,
1584
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:36,400
Clem, if they want to learn more, how
1585
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:37,240
can they connect with you?
1586
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,860
They could reach me by phone.
1587
01:11:40,140 --> 01:11:40,400
Okay.
1588
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:46,400
And 316-644-0688.
1589
01:11:50,220 --> 01:11:53,860
And I'd be happy to try to answer
1590
01:11:53,860 --> 01:11:55,220
any questions they might have.
1591
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:57,620
Okay, yeah, very good.
1592
01:11:57,620 --> 01:12:01,040
So I want to close and encourage you
1593
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,160
to connect with Clem and you know how
1594
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:03,720
to reach me.
1595
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,140
But I thought about, as I wrote this
1596
01:12:06,140 --> 01:12:08,640
podcast, you know, I thought about just how
1597
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,700
even recently I've been triggered with my own
1598
01:12:11,700 --> 01:12:12,140
family.
1599
01:12:13,220 --> 01:12:15,160
And so I can, as I mentioned, get
1600
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,680
jealous when my parents go and visit my
1601
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,420
brother or have Thanksgiving with my brother and
1602
01:12:20,420 --> 01:12:20,980
not me.
1603
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,880
And even this current upcoming Thanksgiving, it's going
1604
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:25,720
to be in New Orleans.
1605
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:29,100
And I've realized that I have not always
1606
01:12:29,100 --> 01:12:32,880
expressed my jealousy and I've not always expressed
1607
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:34,940
this feeling of favoritism.
1608
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:36,120
And I don't know how accurate it is,
1609
01:12:36,140 --> 01:12:36,400
honestly.
1610
01:12:36,540 --> 01:12:38,300
I do believe my parents love me and
1611
01:12:38,300 --> 01:12:39,760
they love us all.
1612
01:12:40,020 --> 01:12:42,280
So I shared it though with my mom
1613
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:43,980
and dad, had a discussion about it.
1614
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,540
And for some reason, the things, some of
1615
01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:49,860
that resentment, even though I'm 53 years old,
1616
01:12:49,980 --> 01:12:51,800
you know, dissipated because I talked to him
1617
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:52,220
about it.
1618
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,060
And it was not the most enjoyable conversation,
1619
01:12:55,060 --> 01:12:57,520
but for some reason I could accept it
1620
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:57,860
better.
1621
01:12:58,460 --> 01:13:02,120
And it's amazing because a tree without healthy
1622
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,440
roots can't stand the test of time and
1623
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:05,660
neither can a family business.
1624
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,820
The legacy isn't the business you hand down.
1625
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,380
It's the family that's still standing when you
1626
01:13:11,380 --> 01:13:11,700
do.
1627
01:13:12,220 --> 01:13:12,880
Right there.
1628
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:14,700
And so I want to challenge you in
1629
01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:15,460
the audience today.
1630
01:13:15,580 --> 01:13:18,100
What insight did you gain from listening to
1631
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:22,040
Clem and hearing about this valuable, extremely valuable
1632
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,220
content on passing down a family business?
1633
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:26,120
What did you gain?
1634
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:29,260
Because there's no positive change unless you take
1635
01:13:29,260 --> 01:13:30,160
some kind of an action.
1636
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,600
Insight, if you're going to make a change
1637
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,680
in your life and your business, insight is
1638
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,100
about 20% of change, I find.
1639
01:13:36,180 --> 01:13:37,640
You can gain insight from good books, from
1640
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:39,580
listening to this podcast, from listening to Clem.
1641
01:13:40,180 --> 01:13:42,680
And the action is 80% plus.
1642
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,040
Do something with it.
1643
01:13:44,140 --> 01:13:45,260
Talk to somebody about it.
1644
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:46,980
Make a commitment to step back from the
1645
01:13:46,980 --> 01:13:49,740
business and start answering some of these questions.
1646
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,040
Reach out and get help.
1647
01:13:51,820 --> 01:13:55,600
And so if this has resonated with you,
1648
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,040
please subscribe and leave a rating and review
1649
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:02,500
somewhere on Apple or Spotify or go check
1650
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:03,480
out the video on YouTube.
1651
01:14:03,660 --> 01:14:05,480
You can check out this article in the
1652
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:06,760
show notes from today.
1653
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,080
And you can reach out to Clem.
1654
01:14:09,220 --> 01:14:12,180
There's no positive change until you decide to
1655
01:14:12,180 --> 01:14:12,660
change.
1656
01:14:13,060 --> 01:14:15,580
To decide means you're eliminating other options.
1657
01:14:16,060 --> 01:14:18,560
Your legacy is the impact your life has
1658
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,180
on others today, starting today.
1659
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:22,240
You decide your legacy.
1660
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,480
Nobody else gets to decide that for you.
1661
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:26,700
You decide your legacy for your business, for
1662
01:14:26,700 --> 01:14:27,680
your life, for your family.
1663
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:28,960
You decide your legacy.
1664
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:29,920
Start today.
1665
01:14:30,340 --> 01:14:31,340
I appreciate you greatly.
1666
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,300
And I'll talk to you next time.
1667
01:14:33,620 --> 01:14:35,340
And thank you very much for being here,
1668
01:14:35,380 --> 01:14:35,560
Clem.
1669
01:14:35,820 --> 01:14:37,660
I really appreciate having you on here today.
1670
01:14:38,180 --> 01:14:39,780
So really great insight.
1671
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:40,640
Great information.
00:00:01,860 --> 00:00:05,740
Welcome to the Decide Your Legacy podcast, helping
2
00:00:05,740 --> 00:00:08,780
individuals and businesses unleash their potential.
3
00:00:09,540 --> 00:00:12,100
Join us every episode as host Adam Bragg
4
00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:14,240
discusses what is holding us back and how
5
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,200
to find hope for moving forward.
6
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,160
Along the way, we discuss developing healthy relationships
7
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,120
and navigating life transitions while overcoming fear, stress,
8
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:24,940
and anxiety.
9
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,920
Live the life you want, the legacy you
10
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:28,440
decide.
11
00:00:29,140 --> 00:00:32,040
So, have you ever noticed that the hardest
12
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,660
conversations in a family business and in a
13
00:00:35,660 --> 00:00:40,240
family, they aren't about the surface level issues,
14
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,980
they're actually much deeper and that's why people
15
00:00:43,980 --> 00:00:44,460
avoid them.
16
00:00:44,540 --> 00:00:47,900
They're about jealousy and trust and who's going
17
00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:51,900
to run the business, who is their favoritism.
18
00:00:52,540 --> 00:00:54,460
Those are the hard things that people avoid.
19
00:00:54,460 --> 00:00:56,680
No one says it out loud, but it
20
00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,540
shows up in business meetings, in the boardroom,
21
00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:02,640
it shows up in decisions not getting made,
22
00:01:02,740 --> 00:01:05,280
it shows up at Thanksgiving dinner, shows up
23
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:05,760
at Christmas.
24
00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:10,360
What's unspoken at the dinner table shows up
25
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,880
elsewhere in sometimes really unhealthy ways.
26
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,460
A family business can outlive the founder or
27
00:01:19,460 --> 00:01:21,000
it can actually split the family.
28
00:01:21,940 --> 00:01:25,480
And the difference is usually decided long before
29
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,680
the transition ever occurs, years before.
30
00:01:29,140 --> 00:01:31,500
Today, we're going to talk about passing the
31
00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,460
business down without breaking the family.
32
00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:39,300
Three decisions that every family business must make
33
00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:42,260
and hopefully you're going to see that some
34
00:01:42,260 --> 00:01:43,120
of these are practical.
35
00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:45,300
Not comfortable, but they're practical.
36
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,460
And you can talk about them with somebody
37
00:01:48,460 --> 00:01:50,160
and they're going to understand, even your six
38
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:50,700
-year-old child.
39
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,540
They can be something that makes sense.
40
00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:54,860
So welcome to the Decide Your Legacy podcast.
41
00:01:55,860 --> 00:01:57,340
I'm your host, Adam Gragg.
42
00:01:57,540 --> 00:02:00,500
I'm a coach and a family therapist and
43
00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:02,920
I founded Decide Your Legacy in 2012.
44
00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:10,160
Our passion is connecting people, helping them talk
45
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,060
about the real core issues.
46
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:19,000
Courageously, connection builds legacy and legacy is now
47
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,720
how we live now.
48
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,040
In fact, it's the foundation.
49
00:02:22,420 --> 00:02:24,520
Connection is the foundation of legacy.
50
00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,440
It happens through courageous conversations.
51
00:02:29,420 --> 00:02:33,220
Joining me today is a special guest, Clem
52
00:02:33,220 --> 00:02:33,720
Ost.
53
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,900
And I wanted to have Clem on the
54
00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:40,780
podcast because I have known him for approximately
55
00:02:40,780 --> 00:02:43,900
roughly 20 years, known of him and seen
56
00:02:43,900 --> 00:02:46,660
him interact in the community with businesses.
57
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,580
He has a unique perspective and he's a
58
00:02:49,580 --> 00:02:50,460
good communicator.
59
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,300
He has some really valuable stuff to share.
60
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,020
And he shared with me probably a month
61
00:02:56,020 --> 00:02:58,700
ago, maybe less, but an article called the
62
00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:00,100
Enterprising Family Tree.
63
00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:03,120
And it describes the family business like a
64
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,620
tree, which I think is very relevant.
65
00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:07,140
Three aspects of the tree.
66
00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:09,220
The family is the roots.
67
00:03:09,220 --> 00:03:12,440
Under the surface, ownership is the trunk and
68
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:13,980
the business is the canopy.
69
00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:15,940
The business is the canopy.
70
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:17,700
I loved how simple it was.
71
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,360
You can grasp it and look at it.
72
00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:22,180
So Clem, will you share some things about
73
00:03:22,180 --> 00:03:24,600
yourself personally and professionally so the audience can
74
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:25,660
get to know you better today?
75
00:03:26,140 --> 00:03:26,340
Okay.
76
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,180
Thank you.
77
00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:32,140
And I appreciate the opportunity to come together
78
00:03:32,140 --> 00:03:35,560
and kind of explore this together because I
79
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,460
know you've done wonderful work in this field.
80
00:03:38,780 --> 00:03:41,860
And so thank you very much.
81
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:42,580
Thanks for being here.
82
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:43,540
I'll give you a little background.
83
00:03:44,940 --> 00:03:49,880
I came from a farm family and it
84
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,120
was a large farm family.
85
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,100
There were 10 of us boys and four
86
00:03:54,100 --> 00:03:54,580
girls.
87
00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:59,480
And so it was, you talk about family,
88
00:04:00,060 --> 00:04:03,540
it was a big family, but it was,
89
00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:06,000
it was really blessed at an early age
90
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,500
in terms of being able to connect with
91
00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:10,240
all my siblings.
92
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,160
And we grew up and played together, fought
93
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:14,160
together, whatever.
94
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:15,899
Where did you fall in the birth order?
95
00:04:16,380 --> 00:04:17,459
I was the fifth oldest.
96
00:04:17,860 --> 00:04:19,940
I had two older brothers and two older
97
00:04:19,940 --> 00:04:20,399
sisters.
98
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,060
And so I was really kind of the
99
00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:25,320
head of the next group.
100
00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:29,460
There was myself and then my younger siblings
101
00:04:29,460 --> 00:04:33,380
that there were three, three of them in
102
00:04:33,380 --> 00:04:35,180
particular that followed me.
103
00:04:35,380 --> 00:04:37,140
And then they're kind of a slight.
104
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,820
With 13 siblings, did you ever forget their
105
00:04:39,820 --> 00:04:40,160
names?
106
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,220
No, no, you didn't forget their names.
107
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:44,760
I mean, you might not call them the
108
00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,820
best names, but exactly, exactly.
109
00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:51,860
But it was, you know, as I reflect
110
00:04:51,860 --> 00:04:58,100
back on my experience in life it was
111
00:04:58,100 --> 00:05:00,900
a wonderful and still is a wonderful experience
112
00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:04,980
because we get together every two years and
113
00:05:04,980 --> 00:05:11,500
there's many, many cousins and usually there's 250
114
00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:15,640
to 300 people that gather for family gathering
115
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:16,580
every two years.
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00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:17,400
Oh wow.
117
00:05:17,580 --> 00:05:19,740
One in Missouri and one in Kansas because
118
00:05:19,740 --> 00:05:24,560
of relocation of some of my siblings to
119
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:25,780
Missouri.
120
00:05:26,180 --> 00:05:29,360
But give you a little background.
121
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,020
I grew up on the farm and I
122
00:05:34,020 --> 00:05:36,220
always knew in my heart that that's not
123
00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:37,320
what I wanted to do.
124
00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:40,360
And so in the early years I noticed
125
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,980
that people that were really driving nice cars
126
00:05:43,980 --> 00:05:46,800
and dressed up would come into our yard
127
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,720
and it turned out to be insurance salesmen.
128
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,660
And so I told myself that's how I,
129
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,480
that's my path to leaving the farm.
130
00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:03,200
So as in my early teens, before I
131
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,180
had, right after I graduated from grade school,
132
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,600
large Catholic family and 10 of the boys,
133
00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:15,720
my mother and dad always thought that there's
134
00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,180
got to be a priest in these 10
135
00:06:17,180 --> 00:06:17,860
boys somewhere.
136
00:06:18,780 --> 00:06:22,460
And so I even, following graduating from high
137
00:06:22,460 --> 00:06:25,100
school, spent about two weeks at a seminary
138
00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:29,000
in Missouri and decided that's not the path
139
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,120
I was going to go on.
140
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,140
And then our church burned down.
141
00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:35,060
My freshman year of high school, I went
142
00:06:35,060 --> 00:06:36,680
to the public school in Conway.
143
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,760
The church burned down and some of the
144
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,300
priests, they had just opened that year.
145
00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:48,080
The all boys Jesuit school at Woodlawn and
146
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,840
Central called Chaplain Capon High School.
147
00:06:51,940 --> 00:06:53,800
And the priests were coming out to help
148
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,580
the pastor and apparently approached my parents about
149
00:06:57,580 --> 00:06:59,760
is there somebody in the parish that could
150
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,960
come and live at the school?
151
00:07:04,060 --> 00:07:07,760
And the next thing I know, my father
152
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:13,800
and mother, my dad, he drove to Wichita
153
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,220
on the east side of town.
154
00:07:15,460 --> 00:07:17,440
I had a little cardboard suitcase and I'm
155
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,460
walking up the walk and not showing where
156
00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:20,900
to go.
157
00:07:21,220 --> 00:07:23,600
They were in their second year and so
158
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,220
they were all coming in from the feeder
159
00:07:25,220 --> 00:07:28,440
schools and dressed in their uniforms as was
160
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:29,520
kind of common.
161
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,780
And finally, they took me to where I
162
00:07:32,780 --> 00:07:36,480
was going to live and one of the
163
00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,020
priests and it was a dressing room off
164
00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:40,420
the gymnasium stage.
165
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,380
So I moved into that dressing room and
166
00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:44,960
that's where I lived for three years.
167
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,140
I'd have to move out whenever there was
168
00:07:47,140 --> 00:07:47,460
a play.
169
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,620
So it was a life changing event and
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00:07:49,620 --> 00:07:52,360
very traumatic in the early months.
171
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:58,400
But it also enabled me to go on
172
00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,380
through high school.
173
00:07:59,580 --> 00:08:03,160
I went to a four year private school
174
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,180
in that city where I met my wife
175
00:08:06,180 --> 00:08:11,220
and then I pursued getting into the insurance
176
00:08:11,220 --> 00:08:14,020
business because I felt that was my avenue.
177
00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:16,680
Ultimately, I did get in the insurance business,
178
00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:18,360
did that for 10 years.
179
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,560
But during those 10 years, my primary clients
180
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,400
were family owned businesses.
181
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:29,560
I was attracted to the dairymen and the
182
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,260
community entrepreneurs and that sort of thing.
183
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,500
So that was a path that just connected
184
00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:39,039
for me.
185
00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:43,860
And then in the late 70s, a mentor
186
00:08:43,860 --> 00:08:47,200
of mine encouraged me to identify the most
187
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,360
successful people I know and just call on
188
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,520
them and ask them the key to success.
189
00:08:52,860 --> 00:08:55,060
And I happened to call on Frank Carney.
190
00:08:55,940 --> 00:09:00,600
And fortunately, his person that was kind of
191
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,220
shepherding him was not at the front desk
192
00:09:03,220 --> 00:09:04,500
and he was in the office and he
193
00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:08,060
waved me in and we developed a relationship.
194
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,560
So he was a tremendous mentor and coach
195
00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:14,560
because I got involved in strategic planning when
196
00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:15,560
it was just emerging.
197
00:09:16,140 --> 00:09:20,640
It came out of the financial planning field,
198
00:09:20,860 --> 00:09:23,080
but I was intrigued by the planning process.
199
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,740
And for the audience, Frank Carney is one
200
00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:27,200
of the co-founders of Pizza Hut.
201
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:28,580
Yes, he was one of the brothers.
202
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,160
Which was started in Wichita where we're speaking
203
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:31,700
today.
204
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:32,560
Okay.
205
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,360
So that gives you a little background of
206
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,600
my entry into it and then I've watched
207
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:39,780
the field emerge.
208
00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:43,840
I've been involved with it since 1977 is
209
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,940
when I got out of the insurance business,
210
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,900
went strictly to a fee-based advisory firm.
211
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,140
For family businesses.
212
00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,120
For family businesses.
213
00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:56,100
That field really developed in the 80s through
214
00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:58,960
an organization called Family Firm Institute.
215
00:09:59,460 --> 00:10:01,980
And so I got very involved in it
216
00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:08,820
and watched the field really emerge tremendously where
217
00:10:08,820 --> 00:10:15,020
today there's unlimited opportunities to reimagine the focus
218
00:10:15,020 --> 00:10:18,320
in terms of shifting from the concept of
219
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,720
a family business to an enterprising family.
220
00:10:22,740 --> 00:10:25,200
And so, Clem, what are some of the
221
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,100
biggest misconceptions you see families having about passing
222
00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,060
down the business?
223
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,840
I think the biggest succession is thinking of
224
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,460
it as succession.
225
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In other words, somebody succeeding them versus a
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generation coming in to be able to redefine
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and reimagine and reinvent together with the elder
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generation what it could become.
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And so transitioning and transformation become very important.
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That it needs to transition and transform into
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something different in order to be current.
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And so we get trapped in the fact
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that it's got to be duplicated from one
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generation to the next when in fact that's
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not sustainable.
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Not in today's world.
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It's reinvented.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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And the other big thing is the shift
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from the concept of focusing on the family
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enterprise, which focuses on the business, is now
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really focusing on the enterprising family of which
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the glue is the family, not the business.
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Okay.
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The family is the key, you might say,
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container that holds the business together.
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And that's a misconception.
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I think one of the misconceptions too is
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that we don't have to proactively talk about
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the future and we don't have to actually...
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So there's an avoidance.
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We'll get to it some other time.
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I would agree totally, Adam.
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I mean, you have to imagine the world
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and the company and the organization, the family,
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what you want it to be, what you
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feel it was really created by a higher
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power and by God with a special mission
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and a special purpose.
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That's a great way of describing it because
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I look at business as being such an
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amazing growth opportunity to reveal blind spots and
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things in yourself that you can work on.
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Yes.
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We grow through it.
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Yes.
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So why the tree?
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What does that picture help families see that
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a chart or a plan doesn't?
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There's a lot of discussion today in emergence
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of a living organization.
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There's a number of people that have written
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about the living company.
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Ajias, a fellow that came out of Shell
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Company, the living company.
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And then also today, it's even more emphasized
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in terms of the recognition that it's a
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dynamic living system.
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And it is because of the relationships, because
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of the dynamics that go on in the
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family, which can be a very powerful trigger
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for helping to solve problems if we recognize
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and are willing to be open to the
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fact that differences involved in the family and
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crisis that appear or tensions that appear are
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positive if we work them through, if we
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talk them through.
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00:13:57,220 --> 00:14:00,220
They create new ideas, new thoughts and new
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00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:02,400
energy, but we have to be open with
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an open heart and open mind and open
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soul to recognize that.
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That's amazing.
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And also to me, the tree, most of
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00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:12,320
the roots are underground.
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Yes.
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Yet we only see, what we see external
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00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:18,300
isn't really what is the foundation of the
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tree.
300
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It's the roots underground, the family.
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And that's why I love that illustration there.
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00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,600
And you can think of even some trees,
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I don't know for sure, but the majority
304
00:14:28,740 --> 00:14:32,000
of the tree is underground with the roots
305
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:32,440
like that.
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00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:35,020
The root system is so massive and it's
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00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:37,140
so stabilizing for that tree that if we
308
00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:39,920
get that right, it makes everything better.
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00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,280
And that tree seed in many occasions has
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been planted generations before.
311
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There you go.
312
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:55,900
And one of the favorite little poems by
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00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:58,680
William Stafford, which is The Way It Is,
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00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:02,080
talks about the thing that never changes.
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00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,960
And it is a brief little poem that
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00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,020
really resonates.
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And if you're familiar with Jim Collins and
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00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:16,580
Porus, he alludes to that, that it's critical
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00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:17,620
to define that.
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00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,000
It's critical to define the intent and the
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00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,440
purpose and why we exist as a family,
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why we exist as an individual.
323
00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:30,000
And our great task is to discover what
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00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:30,580
that is.
325
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,800
And to get them to talk about it
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00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,680
and clarify it.
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00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:35,040
The history is so powerful.
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00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,060
Can you think of a very sentimental gift
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that you've been given at some point, Clem,
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00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:42,100
that you treasure?
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Like what one of the most treasured gifts
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is that you have?
333
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,900
You know, I went through a process called
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00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:53,480
the strategic coach, which you're very familiar with
335
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:54,760
because I know you're involved in it.
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00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,480
Dan Sullivan, yes.
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00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,840
And the unique ability exercise was one that
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00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,940
I went through and took about 15 to
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00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:10,540
20 family members, clients, advisors, people that knew
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00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:14,640
me, and just really peeled that back.
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00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:16,340
And one of the things that kept emerging
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00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:21,600
was my ability to really sense things and
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00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,100
see things that aren't visible to them.
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00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:32,560
And here, listening to what they're thinking, not
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00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:33,420
what they're saying.
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Because oftentimes, you can see those patterns when
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00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:38,700
we go into the relationship.
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00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,580
So it's really that self-discovery, helping them
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00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:46,540
discover their unique gifts, their unique talents, and
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00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:50,940
beginning to see that through dialogue and through
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00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:55,380
feedback and through conversations, many people, by just
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00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:57,360
asking them, what do you feel that I
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00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:58,880
am really good at?
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00:16:58,960 --> 00:16:59,940
Oh, that's such a great question.
355
00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:04,119
And that allows you to begin to notice
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00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,540
the patterns and the trends that keep reoccurring.
357
00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:07,900
So that's been a gift from other people
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00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:09,380
to you to help you clarify.
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00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,980
I have always found that I can't see
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00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:15,359
myself as clearly often without feedback from other
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00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,880
people, from a community, from my family, from
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00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,660
people seeing and pointing out to me that
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00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:21,200
you're good at that, or why are you
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00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,220
insecure there, Adam?
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00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:23,359
You really shouldn't be.
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00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,800
And it's sunk in for the first time
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00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:26,680
in those interactions.
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00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,960
Can you think of a tangible gift that
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00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,520
you've gotten that you'd say, like, I really
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00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:31,680
treasure this sentimentally?
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00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,380
I mean, for me, I can share one,
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00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,760
as you think about that, because I'm putting
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00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:35,300
you on the spot.
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00:17:35,620 --> 00:17:38,260
I have my grandfather's watch that my aunt
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00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:38,840
gave to me.
376
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:41,940
And he came over from when he was
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00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,340
nine from London, from England.
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00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:46,180
And he worked for the Southern Pacific Railroad
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00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:47,600
his whole career, except when he was in
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00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:48,580
the Navy during World War II.
381
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:50,240
And so he got this watch when he
382
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,640
retired.
383
00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:51,940
It's a gold watch.
384
00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:53,380
My aunt gave it to me, though.
385
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,540
And the reason it's so sentimental is because
386
00:17:55,540 --> 00:17:57,820
of the history, because of the roots, because
387
00:17:57,820 --> 00:17:58,720
of what he meant to me.
388
00:17:58,760 --> 00:17:59,760
He died when I was 15.
389
00:18:00,020 --> 00:18:02,780
But he was such an influence on my
390
00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:06,340
life, even in those 15 years, that I
391
00:18:06,340 --> 00:18:08,140
will get emotional thinking about him in hard
392
00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:10,940
times because I had this sense of unconditional
393
00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:11,640
love from him.
394
00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:13,000
So it represents so much more.
395
00:18:14,140 --> 00:18:16,880
What's for you, Clem, a tangible gift that
396
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:17,220
you've received?
397
00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:19,020
Well, a couple of them.
398
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,200
One is the little community of Oost, Kansas,
399
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,600
O-S-T, by the Cheney Reservoir.
400
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:28,360
That's where my father grew up, and right
401
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,580
across the road from the Catholic Church there.
402
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,880
And it's today a very flourishing little community.
403
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,140
But I can remember my great-grandfather, who
404
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:41,300
helped found that community.
405
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,920
We used to, as children, run over to
406
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,120
his general store, and for a dime you
407
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,940
could get some candy or whatever the case,
408
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,620
or nickel, penny, really.
409
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,820
And so, Oost, Kansas, has really always been
410
00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:00,860
a special gift.
411
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:06,040
I go back there every year and really
412
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:12,960
reconnect with my grandparents in the cemetery, and
413
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,940
my grandparents as well.
414
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,780
The other thing that connects to me is,
415
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,780
I have kind of a book that has
416
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:31,280
a family tree with all, still creating little
417
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,000
birds that we, every time one of my,
418
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,140
one of us had a child, there's a
419
00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:40,860
little bird that goes on the canopy of
420
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:41,240
the tree.
421
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:45,700
And my mother had 67 grandchildren, and then
422
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:48,560
out of that came many, many great-grandchildren,
423
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:51,320
and now it's great-great-great-grandchildren, and
424
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:51,780
so forth.
425
00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:57,040
So, it's a really, really valuable reminder of
426
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,200
how my parents kept us together, and even
427
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,120
when the transfish in the farm, we went
428
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,480
through the exercise of talking about it and
429
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,240
trying to understand where everybody's passions or interests
430
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,680
were at, that reached agreement after my father
431
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,960
died, and then after my mother died, that
432
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,740
it was a legacy that just really was
433
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:23,980
one I never really thought about, because I
434
00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:27,380
started that process when I was in the
435
00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:30,000
insurance business, encouraging my parents to do that.
436
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:32,280
And so, it's lived on.
437
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,420
To make that tree, you encourage them to.
438
00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:37,440
So, why should business leaders pay attention to
439
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,380
this episode, even if they don't currently own
440
00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:41,180
a family business?
441
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,160
I think the key is that family businesses
442
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,780
need the support of others.
443
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:51,380
It's not just about the family business.
444
00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:53,700
They can't succeed without others.
445
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:56,160
So, if you're in a profession or you're
446
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,380
a member of a community and so forth,
447
00:20:58,780 --> 00:21:01,940
to support them, to realize that they're generating
448
00:21:01,940 --> 00:21:08,400
such positive opportunities for jobs and opportunities with
449
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,600
reference to perpetuating the faith, or whatever that
450
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,260
case might be, of recognizing that those tight
451
00:21:16,260 --> 00:21:20,640
communities of your own families are the communities
452
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,740
you want your children or grandchildren to grow
453
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:23,260
up in.
454
00:21:23,820 --> 00:21:29,740
And so, I think professionals really have a
455
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:35,720
tremendous opportunity of helping others become the best
456
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:36,400
they can be.
457
00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:37,120
Yeah, absolutely.
458
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,360
And I think, for me as a family
459
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,320
therapist, I look at the way business teams
460
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,260
function, having a lot of similarities to a
461
00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:45,620
family.
462
00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:48,680
And they are family, but they may have
463
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,140
non-family executives.
464
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,640
And people bring in, you know, just being
465
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,620
a middle child or just feeling some exclusion
466
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:58,340
from their parents growing up.
467
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,820
They could bring that into a team.
468
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,760
And knowing that things work as a system
469
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,200
is valuable for anybody in making those connections.
470
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:12,120
So, yeah, there's, I'd recommend a book called
471
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,860
Business as a Calling by, author is Michael
472
00:22:15,860 --> 00:22:16,220
Nova.
473
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:22,180
And Michael Nova was a very good, connected
474
00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:25,720
with St. John Paul II, as well as
475
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,080
he's written many books.
476
00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:30,280
But he talks about the fact that the
477
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,740
way out of poverty is through being an
478
00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:33,300
entrepreneur.
479
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,900
Oftentimes, and I often find that, that many
480
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:41,780
entrepreneurs oftentimes have not gone on to get
481
00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:43,080
a PhD.
482
00:22:44,060 --> 00:22:47,100
They maybe dropped out of school or they
483
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:50,560
pursued their dream or they pursued an idea.
484
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,660
And so, there's a, in our free enterprise
485
00:22:53,660 --> 00:22:57,080
system, it's critical that we have these healthy
486
00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:01,880
families and these healthy businesses that provide the
487
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,340
opportunities to others who help create the success
488
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:07,380
within the business.
489
00:23:07,660 --> 00:23:13,760
And that there be that unspoken connection that
490
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,340
we can't do this without each other.
491
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,460
We can't do it without each other.
492
00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:20,680
And so much of our economy is driven
493
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:21,460
by family business.
494
00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:23,460
People don't realize that oftentimes.
495
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:25,880
And people don't realize how many people do
496
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:26,960
actually work with family.
497
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:27,640
Yeah.
498
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,660
And some of these leaders out there may
499
00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:31,500
have a family business or maybe growing into
500
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:32,140
a family business.
501
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:32,600
That's right.
502
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,180
So, before we get into the three decisions,
503
00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:36,720
one last question here.
504
00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:39,460
What's the difference, Clem, between a healthy handoff
505
00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:40,500
and an unhealthy one?
506
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:45,980
A healthy handoff works when you're open and
507
00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:49,000
willing to embrace the differences and the conflict,
508
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,320
to name it, to make it without, without
509
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,320
fear, without judgment, without just that a person
510
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,240
feels safe that they can say what they're
511
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:02,660
thinking.
512
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:10,160
And the recipient, out of curiosity and wonder,
513
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:12,360
can try to get clarity on what that
514
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:12,680
means.
515
00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:15,920
So, a healthy conversation back and forth is
516
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,400
not jumping to conclusions, but jump to, what
517
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,580
did you mean by that?
518
00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:22,240
Yeah.
519
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,500
You know, did I understand what you just
520
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:24,800
said?
521
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,040
And so, we need to be able to
522
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,980
not quickly react.
523
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,000
I've been through that situation oftentimes where I
524
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,320
was giving my, I had the answer before
525
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,160
they even finished talking.
526
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,440
And it's a natural tendency for all of
527
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,740
us as emotional human beings to react to.
528
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,960
And these are highly emotional interactions with family.
529
00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:49,520
And they can have 40, 50 years of
530
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:49,860
history.
531
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,900
And I have found that the unhealthy handoffs,
532
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,260
they don't talk about this stuff.
533
00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:58,420
And they react and run rather than engage.
534
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,660
And these are multiple conversations over a period
535
00:25:01,660 --> 00:25:04,180
of time, often years of time, where they're
536
00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:07,040
making progress because there is some openness and
537
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,260
there's more trust being built.
538
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,880
But they're painful.
539
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:14,340
Both Clem and I know what it's like
540
00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:16,040
to have clients that want to fire us
541
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,440
after they get started in the process.
542
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,900
So, there's people that, because it's uncomfortable, but
543
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:22,220
they don't often see the progress.
544
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:24,220
We try to help them see it.
545
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:27,620
But sometimes there's resistance as we get engaged
546
00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:28,520
in these conversations.
547
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,760
Well, you bring up a very good point,
548
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:36,920
Adam, because patience is critical.
549
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,940
Being able to let things emerge.
550
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,600
Oftentimes, we have to have an answer.
551
00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:45,640
We want to fix it.
552
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,740
But actually, when you get into those conversations,
553
00:25:49,980 --> 00:25:51,700
there are differences and there's tension.
554
00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:54,720
There's something better coming out of it if
555
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,560
you hold that space, hold that canine.
556
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:00,600
And the beautiful part about a family, enterprise
557
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,280
or an enterprising family, it's a tight container.
558
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,360
Nobody abandons their family.
559
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,560
You're always family.
560
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,260
They can estrange themselves.
561
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,580
They can distance themselves.
562
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,000
But you always go back to those roots.
563
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:16,940
And many of the things that were passed
564
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:20,220
on to you were passed on to the
565
00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:21,240
previous generation.
566
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,380
And, you know, it's amazing how much of
567
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,180
our own health is connected to our family.
568
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,840
Even how much if someone has anxiety issues
569
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,160
or depression issues, and then resolving things within
570
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,880
their family can make a big impact.
571
00:26:35,020 --> 00:26:37,700
So, what's the first decision here?
572
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:40,700
What's the first decision right now when it
573
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:42,860
comes to this topic, Clem?
574
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:44,520
Commitment.
575
00:26:45,820 --> 00:26:49,580
The first decision is that you're committed to
576
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:50,160
the family.
577
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,340
You're committed to helping it become the best
578
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:54,220
that it can be.
579
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,560
And finding ways and finding resources and finding
580
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,560
information because it's out there.
581
00:27:02,020 --> 00:27:03,760
I've seen the field emerge.
582
00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:05,940
It's all out there.
583
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,540
But we have great individual growth and it
584
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:11,600
starts with the individual.
585
00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:15,180
You have to become the change that you're
586
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:15,520
wanting.
587
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,020
And that means individual self-awareness and self
588
00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:23,000
-determination that you can make a difference.
589
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:27,780
And so, it doesn't require all the family
590
00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:28,220
members.
591
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,140
It just takes one person to change the
592
00:27:31,140 --> 00:27:33,740
system to a very positive movement.
593
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,860
So, what you're saying, commitment to the roots.
594
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:37,460
Yes.
595
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:38,360
Commitment to the roots.
596
00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:42,100
So, the values, the faith, the traditions, the
597
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:44,200
stories that makes...
598
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,040
And those are the deep roots.
599
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,600
Those are the things that never really change.
600
00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:57,020
It's extremely valuable to understand where you came
601
00:27:57,020 --> 00:28:01,060
from and what are those things that you
602
00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:03,400
want to pass on to future generations because
603
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:10,140
they're so true and good and beautiful in
604
00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:10,880
most cases.
605
00:28:11,260 --> 00:28:13,880
Healthy roots are paramount for a healthy tree.
606
00:28:14,580 --> 00:28:18,400
So, unresolved conflict, unspoken expectations.
607
00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:20,180
They rot the roots.
608
00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:21,740
They're out of sight, but they rot.
609
00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:28,460
And oftentimes, families find themselves not even being
610
00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:29,920
able to be in the same room with
611
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,440
each other.
612
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,520
And that takes courage to be able to
613
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,120
say, this isn't what was intended.
614
00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:41,170
And what is it that each of us...
615
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,760
You might ask the question, why do I
616
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:46,160
exist?
617
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,040
And why does this family exist?
618
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,060
What is it that's special for us to
619
00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:52,180
give back to others?
620
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,600
And that takes time and courage.
621
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:58,760
And it's not something that happens overnight.
622
00:28:59,380 --> 00:29:02,100
But the impact of it, beginning it, will
623
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:08,360
make significant difference to be authentic and willing
624
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,060
to stay connected and embrace the struggle, embrace
625
00:29:12,060 --> 00:29:14,920
the pain that we all go through.
626
00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:16,540
It's not isolated.
627
00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:22,200
All families have something traumatic that has occurred
628
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:22,920
in their life.
629
00:29:23,260 --> 00:29:23,660
Right.
630
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,500
You know, and I can think of examples
631
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:30,140
where siblings may not talk to each other.
632
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,420
And there's rivalry that goes way back.
633
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:36,820
And there's leadership decisions that aren't made.
634
00:29:37,540 --> 00:29:41,600
And there's even spousal conflict related to this.
635
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:44,180
And it comes out in passive-aggressive board
636
00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:46,240
meetings because maybe they still work together or
637
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,440
slow decisions.
638
00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:48,480
It costs the company.
639
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800
It impacts the value of the company.
640
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,340
And then facilitating those conversations and working through
641
00:29:55,340 --> 00:29:57,580
the conflict helps them recover.
642
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:58,560
And I can think of a lot of
643
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:58,880
examples.
644
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,940
So what does that actually look like week
645
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:05,280
to week for a family to commit and
646
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,160
to tend to the roots?
647
00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:13,220
You need to identify those family leaders that
648
00:30:13,220 --> 00:30:18,000
see the importance of the whole system, that
649
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000
they want to find ways to learn and
650
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,800
grow and begin to have those conversations.
651
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,060
It's my opinion and the opinion of the
652
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:30,060
people that have worked in this field, you
653
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:31,900
can't do it without outside help.
654
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,320
That third party facilitator is a must to
655
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:41,800
get it because you can't facilitate your own
656
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,020
dynamics without triggering things that maybe wasn't intended
657
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:48,900
where somebody else couldn't.
658
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,180
A third party can help think that through
659
00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:57,300
deeper and realize that the intent helps stabilize
660
00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:58,240
the conversation.
661
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,700
And then how the receiver.
662
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:00,260
Yeah.
663
00:31:00,380 --> 00:31:02,660
Because they show that, Hey, this wasn't intended
664
00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:05,160
to offend you or, and they give them,
665
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:06,880
they shine a light on what the truth
666
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,740
is in the interaction.
667
00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:09,300
Very valuable.
668
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,840
So what do you say to somebody who
669
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,980
has, they want to engage in tending the
670
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:15,020
roots, but a lot of the part of
671
00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:16,520
the family does not want to engage in
672
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,100
this process?
673
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,100
I would say that the elder who are,
674
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,320
have the influence in the business are the
675
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,880
ones that have to support the idea and
676
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,960
be committed to it.
677
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,440
The elder generation has a critical role to
678
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,480
play, even if they're.
679
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,420
Even if they're not in the business anymore.
680
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,220
Yes.
681
00:31:40,660 --> 00:31:40,860
Okay.
682
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,700
Like they've given the business to the second
683
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:43,820
generation or whatever.
684
00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:46,140
Let's go back to what I said earlier.
685
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:48,900
It's not about the business that we're talking
686
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:49,180
about.
687
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,700
It's about the family and it's about the
688
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:55,160
enterprising family that has room for everybody, even
689
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,000
those not being in the business.
690
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,800
They have something to contribute, even if they're
691
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:00,980
pursuing other careers.
692
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,620
Oftentimes in this concept of the enterprising family
693
00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:07,580
is there's, they have ideas that they want
694
00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:10,040
to pursue on their own with their spouse
695
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:10,780
and so forth.
696
00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:12,160
How do we support that?
697
00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:15,280
How does that core family business provide them
698
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,980
with the opportunities to.
699
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:19,560
To do that.
700
00:32:19,820 --> 00:32:21,960
Maybe they want to, maybe somebody wants to
701
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,980
become a dentist and they're really passionate about
702
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:25,720
it and if the business would support them
703
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,160
with that.
704
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Yes.
705
00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:28,100
Because you'd hate to see them have a
706
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:31,640
passion for dentistry and not go pursue it.
707
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:31,860
Right.
708
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,300
Well, and they have something to contribute from
709
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:40,120
their own experience of serving others or helping
710
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:40,540
others.
711
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,840
And oftentimes you'll find that when you have
712
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,180
a family gathering or family counselor, really those
713
00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:51,520
structures become important that help you come together.
714
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Maybe it's once a year, maybe it's once
715
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,240
every six months.
716
00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:59,180
It's important to look at the knowledge and
717
00:32:59,180 --> 00:33:03,180
talents that live within the family, but not
718
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:04,620
necessarily in the business.
719
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:05,280
In the business.
720
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:06,680
That's a family conversation.
721
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,080
So what are the conversations families avoid most
722
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,160
when it comes to who takes over?
723
00:33:12,260 --> 00:33:17,720
Well, they avoid thinking in terms of who's
724
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,380
the most qualified and what kind of qualifications
725
00:33:21,380 --> 00:33:24,560
are required to take us into the future.
726
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,220
Oftentimes it's not a family member.
727
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:33,080
Oftentimes they maybe have not had those experiences
728
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,000
outside, but they can learn that.
729
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,940
And that's why it's strongly encouraged that family
730
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:45,860
members go work someone else for a period
731
00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:47,840
of five years or so to get that
732
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,120
inside experience plus confidence that they know they
733
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,340
can, they, they earned it.
734
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:57,680
And so, but the tradition has been moving
735
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,380
it within the family, but it puts it
736
00:34:00,380 --> 00:34:01,360
at great risk.
737
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,060
Stewardship is more, most critical to think in
738
00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:08,960
terms of who are the best custodians or
739
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,500
stewards to keep this alive.
740
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:13,600
And, and it could be a non-family
741
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,400
member oftentimes can be, or even somebody that
742
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,580
married into the family oftentimes can be that
743
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:22,060
person.
744
00:34:23,659 --> 00:34:27,600
And if, if that's developed internally, that's been
745
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,699
a very favorable environment.
746
00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:32,340
If it's a family member themselves that have
747
00:34:32,340 --> 00:34:35,320
maybe ran a division or proved that they
748
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,219
can build a team and that sort of
749
00:34:38,219 --> 00:34:38,480
thing.
750
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,980
So, so stewardship, I'd like to think of
751
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:43,380
much more than ownership.
752
00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:45,060
We don't really own anything.
753
00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:47,920
I mean, if you have a few key
754
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,420
people go or, you know, because of the
755
00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:53,080
toxicity or whatever that might be going on,
756
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,880
it can have a major impact on the
757
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:56,780
business itself.
758
00:34:57,060 --> 00:34:57,160
Yeah.
759
00:34:57,300 --> 00:34:58,860
And so how do we- You don't
760
00:34:58,860 --> 00:34:59,620
really own the business.
761
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:00,740
It's God's business.
762
00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:03,280
It's like, it's like tithing, you know, you
763
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,440
tithing releases the power of money over your
764
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:06,800
life.
765
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,260
If, if, if it's, it's hard thing to
766
00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:11,780
do, but it releases the same thing with
767
00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:14,500
the business and it gets them thinking about,
768
00:35:14,660 --> 00:35:16,480
well, we may not have the right people
769
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,640
yet in the family.
770
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:19,580
And we're going to go and find the
771
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:21,620
right people for the stewardship of the business.
772
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,480
And what if they've already put people in
773
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,920
positions where they're not really ready?
774
00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:28,680
Well, that, that has to start at the
775
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,920
family level of talking about our commitment to
776
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,520
see this continue from generation to generation.
777
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,480
And in many cases, if you've established some
778
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,200
outside counsel or advisors and so forth to
779
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:48,400
talk that through, but recognize that we, we
780
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,360
know that we need someone that can take
781
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,140
this forward.
782
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,280
People that are there, we have to understand
783
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,940
what their aspirations and wishes are.
784
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,940
And it becomes a nurturing developmental issue.
785
00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:04,940
Is it someone that is committed to growing
786
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:05,660
and learning?
787
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,940
And you have to provide that support and
788
00:36:08,940 --> 00:36:11,740
that opportunity for them to grow and develop
789
00:36:11,740 --> 00:36:12,380
and nurture.
790
00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:17,360
It's, it's nurturing the human resource, not commanding
791
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,060
it or telling it what it needs to
792
00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:19,180
do.
793
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:21,680
Nobody changes because somebody tells you to change.
794
00:36:21,940 --> 00:36:22,100
Yeah.
795
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,580
We change because of our own self-discovery
796
00:36:24,580 --> 00:36:28,460
and, and, and knowing that somebody really cares
797
00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:31,020
for me to be the best I can
798
00:36:31,020 --> 00:36:31,380
be.
799
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:31,840
Yeah.
800
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,580
I know that's in that just knowing that
801
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:39,580
they're, they're not forcing a person to do
802
00:36:39,580 --> 00:36:41,200
a leadership role who isn't ready as well.
803
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,300
And I've seen that happen.
804
00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:45,540
And then there's no conversation about it and
805
00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:47,640
pointing out like they've, they've shown really that
806
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,440
their behavior means that they're really not ready.
807
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:51,980
Maybe they can't regulate themselves emotionally.
808
00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:56,960
You know, and leaders, leaders are, there's certain
809
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,020
qualities that you're going to have that show
810
00:36:59,020 --> 00:37:00,100
that you're ready for this.
811
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:03,320
So when does the next generation need a
812
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,640
voice and what happens when they don't get
813
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:04,920
one?
814
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,460
They need a voice as soon as you
815
00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:08,360
can give it to them.
816
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,000
I know families that have family gatherings and
817
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,300
a 10 year old or 12 year olds
818
00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:17,720
voices in the room.
819
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,400
And oftentimes you're shocked at what they pick
820
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,100
up and say and do.
821
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:24,580
How much insight they have.
822
00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:29,100
And so, and nurturing that can make it
823
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:32,520
much more attractive to them if they want
824
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,620
to come back someday or knowing that, that
825
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:38,400
family system is a very vibrant and very
826
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,800
healthy environment.
827
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:44,140
And so families have unlimited opportunities in my
828
00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:47,280
opinion today, if they do their work and
829
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,660
realize how living systems and nurturing and, and
830
00:37:50,660 --> 00:37:54,560
the living tree concept by, by cultivating it,
831
00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:57,240
by pulling the weeds, by making sure that
832
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:01,300
it's not infested or toxic can have such
833
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,520
positive results.
834
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,960
So what happens when part of the family
835
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:06,880
doesn't have a voice?
836
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:12,480
Well, I think that if they don't have
837
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,720
a voice, then you're probably going to see
838
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:16,360
it in a strain.
839
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,900
It's going to be, it's going to be
840
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:18,200
toxic.
841
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,040
People want their voices heard.
842
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,840
They don't necessarily think that you should follow
843
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,340
what they say.
844
00:38:25,420 --> 00:38:27,180
They just want to know that they have
845
00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:31,720
the opportunity to, and you're asking them that
846
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:32,980
your voice is important.
847
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,040
And you're listening and trying to understand.
848
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:35,680
That's right.
849
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:39,740
Because I've found many times that that's all
850
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:40,620
they're asking for.
851
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,220
And they honor and respect that and are
852
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:47,380
explaining that, you know, the people in charge
853
00:38:47,380 --> 00:38:48,920
are taking that information.
854
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,180
They've considered it and, and respect and honor
855
00:38:53,180 --> 00:38:56,160
and appreciate they're willing to participate.
856
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,640
So how do you tell the difference between
857
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,760
a family wound and a business disagreement?
858
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,180
So like the difference between a business disagreement
859
00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:09,220
and a family wound wearing a business suit,
860
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,220
how did you tell the difference?
861
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,920
Well, I would say the family wound is
862
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,100
highly emotional.
863
00:39:18,220 --> 00:39:26,000
And it's the business wound, just logically, you
864
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,880
can probably talk it through if it's without
865
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,700
the human emotions.
866
00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:35,060
But the family wound is not uncommon at
867
00:39:35,060 --> 00:39:35,340
all.
868
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,620
And, and avoiding it is not going to
869
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:40,020
solve it.
870
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:41,820
It's going to just fester and grow.
871
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,580
And it's going to put the whole organization
872
00:39:43,580 --> 00:39:44,240
at risk.
873
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:48,320
Because that's what is toxic underneath the soil.
874
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,280
And it looks and appears oftentimes that a
875
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,740
business from the outside is doing well.
876
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,640
But if it's not addressing that, it'll collapse
877
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,340
at some point.
878
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:03,260
Isn't that so true?
879
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,860
And then you're surprised when you see what's
880
00:40:05,860 --> 00:40:06,200
going on.
881
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,580
This business is sold and it's devalued and
882
00:40:09,580 --> 00:40:11,620
everyone's wondering, well, what really happened?
883
00:40:11,660 --> 00:40:12,780
But it was all under the soil.
884
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,280
I see when it's really a personal family
885
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,040
issue, you see little tiny things becoming huge
886
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:20,380
things.
887
00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:23,840
And this resistance to decisions and you're wondering
888
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:24,920
what's really going on there.
889
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:27,620
And an outsider that's not in the family
890
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:30,580
can usually spot it and say, well, if
891
00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:32,540
what, this is something else that we should
892
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:33,400
probably discuss here.
893
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,100
What's really, you go rise above that interaction
894
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,420
and point out and say, what's really behind
895
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:38,740
that?
896
00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:40,960
How is that connected to the past and
897
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,180
getting them to engage in it?
898
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:43,900
Because if they do, they can have real
899
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:44,460
breakthroughs.
900
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:47,000
So, what's a simple first step that a
901
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,320
family can take when it comes to commitment?
902
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,500
Engage in dialogue.
903
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:55,440
Engage in dialogue.
904
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:55,920
Yeah.
905
00:40:56,180 --> 00:40:57,160
I mean, communicate.
906
00:40:57,340 --> 00:40:58,540
So, what does that look like?
907
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:05,620
Bring together and share the intent and the
908
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:07,280
purpose of what we're wanting to do.
909
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,200
And think through, think through, do we want
910
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,240
this legacy to continue in future generations?
911
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,900
And are we willing to do whatever it
912
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:20,220
takes to make that happen?
913
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:26,260
With God's help and faith, there's no way
914
00:41:26,260 --> 00:41:29,980
that it won't happen in the sense of
915
00:41:29,980 --> 00:41:34,680
helping because it takes courage and it takes
916
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,160
risk and it takes faith.
917
00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:44,780
And so, having dialogue and clearly saying that
918
00:41:44,780 --> 00:41:47,960
we can, we want to talk about the
919
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:48,720
future of the business.
920
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,320
And I've found that if somebody has been
921
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,380
running a business without the dialogue and maybe
922
00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:57,020
they made some mistakes as they listened to
923
00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:59,020
this episode and they think, well, I've already
924
00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:01,000
made some of these decisions that I'm hearing
925
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,240
about and I want to, I don't know
926
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:05,020
what I can do.
927
00:42:05,140 --> 00:42:07,000
I think apologizing and saying, you know, there's
928
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,140
some ways that I missed the mark and
929
00:42:09,140 --> 00:42:12,240
I want to start having this dialogue now
930
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,100
and listen to all the different parts of
931
00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:16,400
the family and take the steps.
932
00:42:16,780 --> 00:42:19,920
I think when I was a kid, we
933
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,480
had family meetings usually on Sundays and I
934
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:25,940
look back and think those were some of
935
00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:28,440
the best times because it was my dad
936
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,860
was passionate about us having these family meetings.
937
00:42:30,860 --> 00:42:33,940
And I think we talked about some things
938
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:35,280
and they were later.
939
00:42:35,380 --> 00:42:37,340
It was really probably when I was 10
940
00:42:37,340 --> 00:42:40,220
or older, but we could bring whatever we
941
00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:42,980
wanted to the table and it was helpful
942
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:45,220
and really positive right now, even as I
943
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:46,280
think about it right now.
944
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,680
So, that is such a big deal to
945
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:50,420
start the dialogue.
946
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:52,680
And who's involved in those discussions, Clem?
947
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,240
Well, I think the person that's most committed
948
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,000
and interested to see it work.
949
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:58,840
Okay.
950
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,220
You know, I think it can start from
951
00:43:01,220 --> 00:43:08,660
a non-employed family member that sees the
952
00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:13,000
family and wants those conversations to happen.
953
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,160
Might be the younger generation.
954
00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:22,400
Ideally, the elder generation who has typically the
955
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,940
respect and the power and the influence, sees
956
00:43:25,940 --> 00:43:28,720
the opportunity to really step into that.
957
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,080
And it's timely.
958
00:43:30,260 --> 00:43:32,380
We need the wisdom of the elders.
959
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:33,300
Yes.
960
00:43:33,580 --> 00:43:36,400
The rising generation is not going to succeed
961
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,660
without repeating all the errors that they're going
962
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:43,500
to go through if they don't listen to
963
00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:44,000
the elders.
964
00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:47,780
And the elders are not going to succeed
965
00:43:47,780 --> 00:43:50,920
unless they nurture and develop the rising generation
966
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,320
and mentor and coach them.
967
00:43:52,660 --> 00:43:54,640
There's got to be an integration of those
968
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:55,280
generations.
969
00:43:55,860 --> 00:43:57,860
And you just need one or two from
970
00:43:57,860 --> 00:44:01,800
each generation that really want to take that
971
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,460
step, that have an influence.
972
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,100
Even if they don't work in the business
973
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:05,360
currently.
974
00:44:05,540 --> 00:44:05,640
Yes.
975
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:08,380
They can come back and start now.
976
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,800
And ideally, oftentimes, because you can get into
977
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,920
such things as family champion, family councils, and
978
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,020
so forth, there's a governance system that needs
979
00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:22,020
to reflect the voice of the family.
980
00:44:22,860 --> 00:44:24,980
That voice is critically heard.
981
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:31,260
Years ago, the focus was on the building
982
00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:33,920
that business and making it strong and getting
983
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,040
rid of the interference of the family because
984
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,000
they're messing it up.
985
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:40,760
When in reality, it's the unraveling of the
986
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:46,300
family guarantees eventually the unraveling of the business.
987
00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:49,620
If you build a stronger family, you'll build
988
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:50,520
a stronger business.
989
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:52,780
So let's talk about the second decision.
990
00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:57,180
What is that that these family business owners
991
00:44:57,180 --> 00:44:57,700
can make?
992
00:44:59,060 --> 00:45:06,940
The second decision is really the stewardship concept
993
00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:10,880
that we don't own this.
994
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:16,180
We need to serve a higher purpose and
995
00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:19,460
ask for that help and that guidance for
996
00:45:19,460 --> 00:45:22,700
us to be able to come together and
997
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:26,180
really be able to recognize that this is
998
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:26,880
God's work.
999
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:30,600
He put us in this position for a
1000
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:30,900
reason.
1001
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,360
There's an old saying that I think about
1002
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,880
it often because my wife reminded me of
1003
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:38,040
it.
1004
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,420
God doesn't call the qualified.
1005
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:44,340
He qualifies those he's called.
1006
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:48,180
And I've often, my wife would say, you're
1007
00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:50,140
no more qualified to do this work than
1008
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:50,480
anybody.
1009
00:45:50,660 --> 00:45:54,440
You haven't grown up in the environment.
1010
00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:59,540
But I realized that my deep desire and
1011
00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:02,020
recognition of the unique gifts and talents God
1012
00:46:02,020 --> 00:46:04,640
had given me just aligned to what the
1013
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,100
work I am doing today.
1014
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,020
And the fact that all those ups and
1015
00:46:11,020 --> 00:46:15,540
downs and struggles are duplicated by every family.
1016
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,400
There is no such thing as a perfect
1017
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:17,880
family.
1018
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,740
No matter how we try to glaze it
1019
00:46:20,740 --> 00:46:23,640
over or think we'll be embarrassed if any
1020
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,700
of this gets out.
1021
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:25,480
Oh, yeah.
1022
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,540
There's a community of families.
1023
00:46:32,420 --> 00:46:32,580
Yeah.
1024
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,600
And that has been a struggle personally, just
1025
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,600
to accept my own, my challenges.
1026
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,440
And in my family, we've had addiction.
1027
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,440
And I've gone through a divorce and they're
1028
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:44,960
not perfect.
1029
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,920
I don't wish those things had happened, but
1030
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,280
we have this messiness to families, which we
1031
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,400
can actually look at and say, how can
1032
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,920
this actually be used as an asset that
1033
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:57,920
we've gone through these things?
1034
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,020
It's hard to understand, but I know it's
1035
00:47:01,020 --> 00:47:01,320
true.
1036
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,500
Well, you know, you bring up a great
1037
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:07,400
point because for years, I was reluctant in
1038
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,260
the mid 80s when the economic times were
1039
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:11,380
pretty tough.
1040
00:47:13,820 --> 00:47:18,520
I declared bankruptcy and I was embarrassed by
1041
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:18,720
that.
1042
00:47:18,820 --> 00:47:20,240
People would tell me, well, how can you
1043
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:23,160
help other companies when you can't help yourself?
1044
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:23,920
Having gone through that?
1045
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:24,820
Yeah, yeah.
1046
00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:28,780
But what come out of that, it was
1047
00:47:28,780 --> 00:47:29,620
my PhD.
1048
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:33,320
I realized, and I can sense and see
1049
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,300
the mindset because I had it myself.
1050
00:47:36,740 --> 00:47:38,920
It was my, I didn't listen to what
1051
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,400
the voice was telling me.
1052
00:47:40,580 --> 00:47:43,180
And as I look back on it, it
1053
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:46,580
was suggested by the attorney and my accountant.
1054
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,040
It was, it was nothing compared to it.
1055
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:50,220
Yeah.
1056
00:47:50,380 --> 00:47:51,760
Because it was, it was.
1057
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:54,840
That's, there's a lot of like Dan Sullivan
1058
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,740
and Dave Ramsey.
1059
00:47:56,740 --> 00:48:00,140
You heard his story when he declared bankruptcy
1060
00:48:00,140 --> 00:48:02,620
and he started this massive business.
1061
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,220
And what I found, my group, my most
1062
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:07,680
successful clients had all gone through it.
1063
00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:08,220
Wow.
1064
00:48:08,380 --> 00:48:09,200
In one form or another.
1065
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,980
Some of them didn't necessarily declare, but they
1066
00:48:13,980 --> 00:48:14,520
were there.
1067
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,860
And so I think the beautiful part of
1068
00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:23,600
it about failure is the embracing the failure
1069
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,920
because that's the opportunity we can really learn.
1070
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:27,800
To help people.
1071
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,720
To help people and serve people.
1072
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,340
Because that's the path and pattern of life.
1073
00:48:34,740 --> 00:48:35,220
It is.
1074
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:37,900
Yeah, it's painful.
1075
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:38,820
Embrace the pain.
1076
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,840
And so this stewardship part, we're talking the
1077
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:43,420
ownership.
1078
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,100
It carries what the family wants up.
1079
00:48:47,220 --> 00:48:49,580
That ownership carries what the family wants up
1080
00:48:49,580 --> 00:48:51,700
to the business and what the business needs
1081
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:52,740
back down to the family.
1082
00:48:52,740 --> 00:48:55,660
So governance is the bark that protects it.
1083
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:56,640
Who owns what?
1084
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,240
Who decides what and how?
1085
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,040
And that article that we're going to actually
1086
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,800
have in the show notes on the enterprising
1087
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,660
family describes a real estate family.
1088
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:09,360
They passed ownership to the second generation, but
1089
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,780
there was no shareholder agreement.
1090
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,260
And decisions got fragmented and they slowed down.
1091
00:49:15,340 --> 00:49:17,220
And then they lost a prime property to
1092
00:49:17,220 --> 00:49:18,220
a faster competitor.
1093
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,120
Yet they fixed it with a clear decision
1094
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:21,480
map.
1095
00:49:22,220 --> 00:49:24,840
And an advisory board and a shareholder agreement.
1096
00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:27,840
So why is this attitude of, we'll figure
1097
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,660
it out when the time comes, so dangerous,
1098
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:29,980
Clem?
1099
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:32,160
Because it's too late.
1100
00:49:33,940 --> 00:49:36,860
In our world today, we don't have the
1101
00:49:36,860 --> 00:49:42,440
privilege of a time with AI, artificial intelligence,
1102
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,400
information moving so rapidly and so forth.
1103
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Whereas years ago, you could say, we can
1104
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,960
recover in the next five years or 10
1105
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:52,440
years.
1106
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:55,940
Today, you have to be out ahead of
1107
00:49:55,940 --> 00:49:56,080
it.
1108
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,000
You have to be able to address these
1109
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,580
issues when you don't need to.
1110
00:50:03,460 --> 00:50:07,240
And that's why the time is now.
1111
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,540
Because things can rapidly unravel.
1112
00:50:11,820 --> 00:50:14,300
And the elephants in the room, it's not
1113
00:50:14,300 --> 00:50:15,100
being talked about.
1114
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,200
I always find that when the elephant is
1115
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,120
brought out, everybody knows it's there.
1116
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,180
The tension starts to decrease over the next
1117
00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:22,700
couple of months.
1118
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:26,220
And people's misconceptions, if they don't talk about
1119
00:50:26,220 --> 00:50:27,020
it, can just grow.
1120
00:50:27,580 --> 00:50:28,760
They feed their fears.
1121
00:50:29,020 --> 00:50:30,740
And I think, even for me, I mean,
1122
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,680
there's times I think these crazy thoughts about,
1123
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,960
just because I'm a middle child and I
1124
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,980
felt excluded at times.
1125
00:50:37,060 --> 00:50:38,980
And even when holidays are planned at my
1126
00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:41,420
brother's house, I can have this attitude of,
1127
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,540
they're doing that intentionally.
1128
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,480
And I don't believe it necessarily is.
1129
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,540
But if I don't talk about it, which
1130
00:50:47,540 --> 00:50:48,920
I've learned to do and say, hey, you
1131
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,020
know, I'd like, or this is what's on
1132
00:50:51,020 --> 00:50:51,420
my mind.
1133
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:52,100
Is this accurate?
1134
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:55,040
So, owning a business, working in the business,
1135
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,080
and leading the business are three different things.
1136
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,100
How do you help families separate them?
1137
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:01,620
They're one system.
1138
00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:06,670
Go back to, it's one system.
1139
00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:08,650
What do you stand for?
1140
00:51:08,750 --> 00:51:09,630
Why do you exist?
1141
00:51:09,770 --> 00:51:10,590
What's your purpose?
1142
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:13,510
And how are you serving others?
1143
00:51:14,770 --> 00:51:23,070
Because that taproot, those virtues, those principles that
1144
00:51:23,070 --> 00:51:28,590
you stand for, permeate the whole tree.
1145
00:51:28,830 --> 00:51:34,550
So, historically, they put them in separate silos.
1146
00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:37,030
Today, it's one system.
1147
00:51:37,070 --> 00:51:37,550
It's the tree.
1148
00:51:37,590 --> 00:51:39,690
The key is to get the system healthy.
1149
00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:43,730
And it starts with the couple, the roots,
1150
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:47,630
the principles within the organization.
1151
00:51:48,970 --> 00:51:52,990
And it will permeate within the business because
1152
00:51:52,990 --> 00:51:57,550
it provides the very nature of what we
1153
00:51:57,550 --> 00:52:00,410
stand for and why we exist that goes
1154
00:52:00,410 --> 00:52:04,370
into how you treat your customers and care
1155
00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:07,510
about your customers and your fellow workers.
1156
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:11,930
And so, that's why I go back.
1157
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:16,910
If you read any of the living organizations
1158
00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:19,570
work by Norman Wolfe and his wife, Jane,
1159
00:52:19,850 --> 00:52:23,110
it goes in-depth on how systems work.
1160
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:27,090
And now, you go through that process and
1161
00:52:27,090 --> 00:52:32,090
it really can be overwhelming to understand how
1162
00:52:32,090 --> 00:52:33,990
natural living systems.
1163
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:36,230
But everybody's living it every day.
1164
00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:38,810
It's not something that we're not doing.
1165
00:52:38,930 --> 00:52:40,170
It's just creating awareness.
1166
00:52:40,890 --> 00:52:41,230
Okay.
1167
00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:43,070
It's recreating consciousness.
1168
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:48,270
Just like this conversation, there'll be a number
1169
00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:50,570
of people that aren't ready to go through
1170
00:52:50,570 --> 00:52:51,970
that process.
1171
00:52:52,350 --> 00:52:55,370
But there'll be some that feel like we've
1172
00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:56,250
got to do something.
1173
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:59,430
I find that some people are interested in
1174
00:52:59,430 --> 00:53:00,270
getting things clarified.
1175
00:53:00,610 --> 00:53:01,350
Some people are resistant.
1176
00:53:01,570 --> 00:53:03,810
So, what should be decided and written down
1177
00:53:03,810 --> 00:53:05,690
before the founder steps back?
1178
00:53:06,670 --> 00:53:12,360
I would say the founder transcends to another
1179
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:12,780
level.
1180
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:18,000
The founder has something to give back through
1181
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,540
the stories he can share with the rising
1182
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:27,600
generation, with the grandchildren, and the history and
1183
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:32,460
the legacy that gets passed on.
1184
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:38,120
And so, when we take out the elders
1185
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,360
within the generation, I've said this before, and
1186
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,240
there's an old adage, when an elder dies,
1187
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:48,140
but an African proverb, a library burns down.
1188
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,460
And the same is true in the family.
1189
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:52,660
But when the elders die and we didn't
1190
00:53:52,660 --> 00:53:54,600
have a chance to really know what they
1191
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,080
thought or what their story was, what were
1192
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,320
some of the things that we wished we
1193
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:02,180
would have asked them.
1194
00:54:02,180 --> 00:54:03,080
It's a huge loss.
1195
00:54:03,260 --> 00:54:03,980
Yes, it is.
1196
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,080
So, I go back to what I was
1197
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:06,360
saying.
1198
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:12,660
I've seen the convergence of the silos and
1199
00:54:12,660 --> 00:54:16,900
even this article referred to about the living
1200
00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:17,280
tree.
1201
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,060
It's converged into one system where it's the
1202
00:54:21,060 --> 00:54:21,560
family.
1203
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,560
You take care and strengthen and develop the
1204
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:25,420
family system.
1205
00:54:26,140 --> 00:54:30,000
It will permeate how the business gets run
1206
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,580
through the governance and through the expectations that
1207
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:34,380
the board has.
1208
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,420
Are we living up to the purpose that
1209
00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:39,500
the families identify of why they exist and
1210
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:40,280
what they're trying to do?
1211
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,020
Those questions need to be asked and answered.
1212
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,420
What are the owner's dreams and hopes?
1213
00:54:45,780 --> 00:54:47,840
And so, sometimes I see where the owner
1214
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,460
will pass it to the second generation and
1215
00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:51,080
they don't want to work as much in
1216
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:51,560
the business.
1217
00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:53,860
Like even saying that, well, I don't want
1218
00:54:53,860 --> 00:54:55,800
to go to the office anymore because that
1219
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,240
undermines their performance or I'll feel pressure to
1220
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:01,080
step in and do what I did before
1221
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,260
when I was the president or the CEO.
1222
00:55:03,940 --> 00:55:04,800
What do you say to that?
1223
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,780
I'd say they're right.
1224
00:55:07,140 --> 00:55:08,060
They're right, okay.
1225
00:55:08,260 --> 00:55:10,560
Yeah, I'd say it's not about working in
1226
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:11,080
the business.
1227
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:15,600
It's about cultivating the system, supporting the system,
1228
00:55:15,740 --> 00:55:19,360
being available to the grandchildren, great-grandchildren, the
1229
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,920
tribe, whatever it might be, sharing their stories
1230
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,660
to the employees.
1231
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,620
And people love to hear the stories.
1232
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:27,300
Meeting with them.
1233
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:28,160
Yeah, meeting with them.
1234
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,000
Having lunch and coffee and then I've also
1235
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,320
seen it where the spouse survives the founder
1236
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,660
and they feel unqualified to be that person
1237
00:55:37,660 --> 00:55:39,540
because they didn't work in the day-to
1238
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,500
-day but they now are the person involved
1239
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:46,600
because their spouse, who was the founder, died.
1240
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,200
And they're insecure about it, conveying that information.
1241
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,040
What would you say to them?
1242
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,540
Well, I would say come back to the
1243
00:55:55,540 --> 00:56:00,200
family and share with them what you know,
1244
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,760
the spouse that passed away and what those
1245
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,740
principles, if they were the founding spouse because
1246
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:07,940
they're very much a part of that success.
1247
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:08,900
They're more than they know.
1248
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,600
Yeah, much more than they know.
1249
00:56:11,060 --> 00:56:14,320
Build good governance systems and structures.
1250
00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:18,900
But that's based on what they've experienced and
1251
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:19,240
lived.
1252
00:56:19,540 --> 00:56:23,380
They share that and it begins to plant
1253
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,640
the seeds in other people's minds and hearts.
1254
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,860
And not think of it in terms of,
1255
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,100
I got this load to carry.
1256
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,280
You've got the whole family to help you
1257
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,100
carry it as well as the...
1258
00:56:35,780 --> 00:56:38,940
Because I've seen them in interactions where you
1259
00:56:38,940 --> 00:56:40,360
ask them questions and they know a lot
1260
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:41,280
more than they realize.
1261
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:43,960
And they have this history because they were
1262
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,600
living it without even knowing it.
1263
00:56:46,700 --> 00:56:49,100
And they didn't even work in the business
1264
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:51,740
potentially, but they did work in the business
1265
00:56:51,740 --> 00:56:53,680
a lot more than they thought, which is
1266
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:54,200
pretty amazing.
1267
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,460
Beautiful about the spousal relationship.
1268
00:57:00,580 --> 00:57:04,660
And I've often said this, the feminine characteristics
1269
00:57:04,660 --> 00:57:07,500
are powerful.
1270
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,860
They have a sensing and an intuition that
1271
00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:14,620
oftentimes they've never worked in the business, but
1272
00:57:14,620 --> 00:57:15,420
they just know.
1273
00:57:16,460 --> 00:57:18,400
And I had that happen with my...
1274
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:25,480
My first wife died about 11 years ago
1275
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,160
and then I remarried and she passed away
1276
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:28,020
earlier this year.
1277
00:57:28,260 --> 00:57:31,720
But what I discovered was with my first
1278
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,880
wife, when I connected with Frank Carney, the
1279
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,520
co-founder of Pizza Hut, I would come
1280
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,200
home and I'd tell her, well, this is
1281
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:40,980
what Frank told me.
1282
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,400
She said, well, I've told you that several
1283
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:44,940
times.
1284
00:57:46,180 --> 00:57:48,900
And I finally woke up and realized she
1285
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:52,860
could sense and see things that I thought,
1286
00:57:53,380 --> 00:57:55,360
here's the guy that really lived it.
1287
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,000
You have to honor and respect those, the
1288
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,420
voices.
1289
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,660
That's very insightful.
1290
00:58:04,060 --> 00:58:05,180
So how do you help?
1291
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,460
What do you have to say with family
1292
00:58:07,460 --> 00:58:09,920
members who own part of the business, yet
1293
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,080
they actually don't work in it?
1294
00:58:11,620 --> 00:58:12,260
They're stewards.
1295
00:58:14,140 --> 00:58:17,600
They have to care about the perpetuation of
1296
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:18,940
the business as a steward.
1297
00:58:18,980 --> 00:58:20,620
But sometimes they will say like, I don't
1298
00:58:20,620 --> 00:58:21,380
know how it runs.
1299
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:22,220
How can I contribute?
1300
00:58:22,540 --> 00:58:23,900
They're not operating the business.
1301
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:28,800
They're guiding the direction and they're guardians of
1302
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,060
the vision and the principles of what was
1303
00:58:33,060 --> 00:58:34,560
passed on to us.
1304
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:36,320
That's a great question.
1305
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:40,540
But it's, see, that's what, living systems are
1306
00:58:40,540 --> 00:58:45,880
much more dynamic than the traditional, you might
1307
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,000
say, path that we've been taught in what's
1308
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,620
called a mechanistic or machine model of logic
1309
00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:53,540
and everything else.
1310
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:56,600
But when you know the intent and purpose,
1311
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,460
you're a custodian of that to see that
1312
00:58:59,460 --> 00:59:00,240
it's passed on.
1313
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,700
And just even with simple questions because they're
1314
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:05,400
valued, not working in the business and observing
1315
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,360
and supporting whoever is working in the business.
1316
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,640
The ownership has, even if they don't work,
1317
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,680
they still have a huge, massive role in
1318
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,360
keeping the family healthy and having the conversations
1319
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,240
and understanding the dynamics, understanding where everyone else
1320
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,160
stands.
1321
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:22,820
And them seeing that, because I've had challenges
1322
00:59:22,820 --> 00:59:24,660
with that at times, getting people to see
1323
00:59:24,660 --> 00:59:26,160
how important their role is.
1324
00:59:26,300 --> 00:59:26,600
Oh, yeah.
1325
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:27,860
And convincing them of that.
1326
00:59:28,060 --> 00:59:29,200
But I mean, selling them on that.
1327
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,920
So, what's the third decision, Clem, when it
1328
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:33,380
comes to this?
1329
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,280
And it's related to the tree here.
1330
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,800
So, that business owners can do to pass
1331
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:38,960
it down the right way.
1332
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,750
They need to define the purpose and the
1333
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:46,410
future vision.
1334
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:50,550
The intent and the reason that this should
1335
00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:52,630
perpetuate for generations to come.
1336
00:59:53,180 --> 00:59:54,430
They have a...
1337
00:59:54,430 --> 00:59:56,870
It's the most critical at work that the
1338
00:59:56,870 --> 01:00:00,530
most difficult for people to do is to
1339
01:00:00,530 --> 01:00:04,910
be able to clarify something simple, but something
1340
01:00:04,910 --> 01:00:07,310
clear about why we exist.
1341
01:00:07,630 --> 01:00:07,790
Okay.
1342
01:00:08,330 --> 01:00:16,150
And that's not just a separate activity.
1343
01:00:16,470 --> 01:00:22,030
That's engaging family members in dialogue in terms
1344
01:00:22,030 --> 01:00:22,930
of...
1345
01:00:22,930 --> 01:00:23,490
Making that decision.
1346
01:00:23,610 --> 01:00:24,610
Making that decision.
1347
01:00:24,850 --> 01:00:26,830
A big part of that is really understand
1348
01:00:26,830 --> 01:00:27,710
where you came from.
1349
01:00:28,670 --> 01:00:32,310
That has a huge influence on us in
1350
01:00:32,310 --> 01:00:34,810
self-awareness and awareness of the legacy that
1351
01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:37,070
was passed on to us and honor that
1352
01:00:37,070 --> 01:00:39,110
legacy from our ancestors.
1353
01:00:40,830 --> 01:00:43,590
You know, it's in the article to the
1354
01:00:43,590 --> 01:00:44,010
canopy.
1355
01:00:44,310 --> 01:00:45,810
The canopy of the tree is the actual
1356
01:00:45,810 --> 01:00:48,850
business where people can see the visual, the
1357
01:00:48,850 --> 01:00:49,530
growth happen.
1358
01:00:49,530 --> 01:00:52,210
And it's the roots and the health of
1359
01:00:52,210 --> 01:00:53,670
the roots and then the health of the
1360
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:56,230
trunk are paramount.
1361
01:00:57,170 --> 01:01:00,150
Termites, it references, are hidden problems that eat
1362
01:01:00,150 --> 01:01:02,930
away at it while it still may look
1363
01:01:02,930 --> 01:01:04,810
healthy, but they're eating away.
1364
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:09,630
And there's five termites referenced, outdated processes, unhealthy
1365
01:01:09,630 --> 01:01:12,890
family dynamics, poor communication, low morale, high turnover,
1366
01:01:13,590 --> 01:01:16,730
a culture that resists change when the next
1367
01:01:16,730 --> 01:01:20,250
generation isn't involved yet.
1368
01:01:20,290 --> 01:01:21,390
They're resisting change.
1369
01:01:22,210 --> 01:01:26,130
So what are the termites that you see
1370
01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:27,970
most often in a family business, Clem?
1371
01:01:28,770 --> 01:01:31,250
Well, the very thing you just...
1372
01:01:31,250 --> 01:01:34,310
It's behind the scenes gossiping.
1373
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:39,370
It's behind the scenes being critical.
1374
01:01:39,950 --> 01:01:43,670
It's behind the scenes of eroding the confidence
1375
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:48,110
in that the family on the same page,
1376
01:01:48,510 --> 01:01:49,830
because people pick that up.
1377
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:53,010
They know when there's sabotaging going on.
1378
01:01:54,110 --> 01:01:59,790
Even though they aren't in on those conversations.
1379
01:02:00,230 --> 01:02:04,450
So that's the beginning of the unraveling unless
1380
01:02:04,450 --> 01:02:06,930
that gets confronted and made visible.
1381
01:02:07,950 --> 01:02:10,510
And address those, like you said so well,
1382
01:02:10,570 --> 01:02:12,210
as the elephants in the room.
1383
01:02:12,750 --> 01:02:14,450
It's for everybody's benefit.
1384
01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:17,970
The people that may not like something going
1385
01:02:17,970 --> 01:02:23,050
on has a responsibility to share that and
1386
01:02:23,050 --> 01:02:27,170
be open to the fact that you're doing
1387
01:02:27,170 --> 01:02:29,250
it because you care about others, not because
1388
01:02:29,250 --> 01:02:31,170
you have your own interests.
1389
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:34,070
Right, it's to help.
1390
01:02:34,490 --> 01:02:38,230
So they're identifying that there's comparison and jealousy
1391
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:40,990
and resentment and saying, hey, might this be
1392
01:02:40,990 --> 01:02:42,330
something we should talk about?
1393
01:02:42,550 --> 01:02:43,690
And that's very common.
1394
01:02:43,690 --> 01:02:45,550
This is not about...
1395
01:02:46,570 --> 01:02:48,510
The families have to make their choices and
1396
01:02:48,510 --> 01:02:51,790
decisions, but they have to know there's a
1397
01:02:51,790 --> 01:02:55,130
way to work that through and not just
1398
01:02:55,130 --> 01:02:58,790
harbor it because eventually it will collapse.
1399
01:03:00,050 --> 01:03:03,010
It's a given that you destroy the root
1400
01:03:03,010 --> 01:03:05,010
system, the tree will collapse.
1401
01:03:05,150 --> 01:03:06,310
Eventually will collapse.
1402
01:03:06,850 --> 01:03:08,270
And how do you find the real source
1403
01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:10,170
of the problem instead of treating the symptoms?
1404
01:03:11,330 --> 01:03:16,150
You get into the commitment that we want
1405
01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:17,130
to go a different direction.
1406
01:03:18,430 --> 01:03:21,410
Somebody has to have the courage to stand
1407
01:03:21,410 --> 01:03:24,910
up and say, you know, this...
1408
01:03:24,910 --> 01:03:25,690
One person.
1409
01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:28,130
Yes, at least one.
1410
01:03:28,290 --> 01:03:30,570
Ideally, a couple, three, whatever it is, depends
1411
01:03:30,570 --> 01:03:31,750
on the size of the family.
1412
01:03:31,890 --> 01:03:34,070
But you want to have that core group
1413
01:03:34,070 --> 01:03:36,770
that is really a steward and who cares
1414
01:03:36,770 --> 01:03:38,510
about all the family members.
1415
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:39,830
They're not isolating.
1416
01:03:40,330 --> 01:03:42,890
It's not about just addressing the needs of
1417
01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:43,470
one person.
1418
01:03:43,850 --> 01:03:48,570
It's about the canopy, the whole system of
1419
01:03:48,570 --> 01:03:51,070
health because it passes on to children and
1420
01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:51,590
grandchildren.
1421
01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:56,090
If that's a pattern, that's likely to repeat
1422
01:03:56,090 --> 01:03:57,530
itself in the next generation.
1423
01:03:57,890 --> 01:04:00,610
But if that pattern is broken, that's likely
1424
01:04:00,610 --> 01:04:04,830
to have great rewards for future generations.
1425
01:04:05,250 --> 01:04:07,750
And the thing that can happen is the
1426
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:10,970
symptoms are very tempting to get consumed by.
1427
01:04:11,230 --> 01:04:15,350
Somebody may have an addiction or somebody may
1428
01:04:15,350 --> 01:04:18,550
always continually cause conflict.
1429
01:04:19,310 --> 01:04:21,090
And they look and say, well, this person
1430
01:04:21,090 --> 01:04:23,950
has a problem, rather than saying, what's underneath?
1431
01:04:24,550 --> 01:04:26,670
What's underneath that's not being talked about?
1432
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:31,830
And being honest with that because that's going
1433
01:04:31,830 --> 01:04:33,350
to make the roots healthy.
1434
01:04:33,670 --> 01:04:35,410
And knowing how important that is because that's
1435
01:04:35,410 --> 01:04:37,790
the one takeaway that I would say, I
1436
01:04:37,790 --> 01:04:39,250
hope people get from listening to this is
1437
01:04:39,250 --> 01:04:40,910
if you don't tend to it and start
1438
01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:43,730
addressing it, that it may not happen in
1439
01:04:43,730 --> 01:04:44,970
the next year, it may not happen in
1440
01:04:44,970 --> 01:04:46,770
five years, but it's going to happen.
1441
01:04:47,390 --> 01:04:48,430
It's going to come out.
1442
01:04:48,590 --> 01:04:49,710
And you're seeing it now.
1443
01:04:49,810 --> 01:04:52,750
There are opportunities to recognize how it's coming
1444
01:04:52,750 --> 01:04:54,370
out now if you're willing to be honest
1445
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:57,650
and see that there's something under the surface.
1446
01:04:57,690 --> 01:04:59,350
And maybe you as a leader are contributing
1447
01:04:59,350 --> 01:04:59,930
to that.
1448
01:05:00,790 --> 01:05:06,130
Maybe you are showing a lack of willingness
1449
01:05:06,130 --> 01:05:07,550
to listen and understand.
1450
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:10,210
Maybe you are showing an inflexibility to the
1451
01:05:10,210 --> 01:05:12,030
next generation about what you want the business
1452
01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:13,910
to do now and not letting them to
1453
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:14,950
be creative.
1454
01:05:17,050 --> 01:05:18,170
It's important stuff.
1455
01:05:18,330 --> 01:05:22,970
So how do employees who aren't family, so
1456
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:23,850
we'll get into that a little bit.
1457
01:05:23,970 --> 01:05:26,150
They aren't family, but they're executives in the
1458
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:27,830
business or even just employees of the business.
1459
01:05:28,170 --> 01:05:30,630
How do they feel the effects of family
1460
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:31,010
tension?
1461
01:05:32,270 --> 01:05:35,250
Whether it's positive or negative energies that's being
1462
01:05:35,250 --> 01:05:36,470
transmitted inside.
1463
01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:37,850
And that's going to come.
1464
01:05:38,070 --> 01:05:39,710
The family's under the spotlight.
1465
01:05:40,890 --> 01:05:42,010
They are under the spotlight.
1466
01:05:42,270 --> 01:05:43,270
They're under the spotlight.
1467
01:05:44,170 --> 01:05:47,950
They know and sense if there's differences.
1468
01:05:48,790 --> 01:05:51,690
And that energy permeates all organization.
1469
01:05:52,110 --> 01:05:53,190
It doesn't go away.
1470
01:05:53,350 --> 01:05:57,530
It either is uplifted into a positive vein
1471
01:05:57,530 --> 01:06:01,410
or it's allowed to fester and continue to
1472
01:06:01,410 --> 01:06:01,990
get worse.
1473
01:06:02,970 --> 01:06:05,970
And so everybody has something to gain by
1474
01:06:05,970 --> 01:06:10,650
really caring about each other and loving the
1475
01:06:10,650 --> 01:06:12,710
work you're doing, loving the people you work
1476
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:15,370
with, loving the family members and so forth.
1477
01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:19,090
And it requires us to overcome many of
1478
01:06:19,090 --> 01:06:22,630
the temptations we have to be human.
1479
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:29,010
And how do we stand by the faith
1480
01:06:29,010 --> 01:06:31,390
and the hope and love that's so necessary
1481
01:06:31,390 --> 01:06:33,430
to sustain ourselves?
1482
01:06:34,290 --> 01:06:38,550
Yeah, it really takes people being honest with
1483
01:06:38,550 --> 01:06:38,990
themselves.
1484
01:06:40,550 --> 01:06:43,590
And I can think of, and you've probably
1485
01:06:43,590 --> 01:06:46,370
seen this before, family businesses who have people
1486
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:48,870
in positions that they're really not mature enough
1487
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:53,730
for and the owners not being willing to
1488
01:06:53,730 --> 01:06:56,330
say, I probably made a wrong move here.
1489
01:06:56,490 --> 01:06:57,950
And let's find a right position for this
1490
01:06:57,950 --> 01:06:59,630
person and help them get to the place
1491
01:06:59,630 --> 01:07:03,190
where they're emotionally, they have the leadership ability
1492
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:05,650
to actually handle the situation, which- And
1493
01:07:05,650 --> 01:07:07,290
that's a role that I think a lot
1494
01:07:07,290 --> 01:07:08,310
of elders can play.
1495
01:07:08,410 --> 01:07:09,390
They've been through it.
1496
01:07:09,510 --> 01:07:12,110
They've seen it and so forth and not
1497
01:07:12,110 --> 01:07:19,490
separate themselves from the opportunities and the responsibilities
1498
01:07:19,490 --> 01:07:23,590
to mentor and coach and be able to
1499
01:07:23,590 --> 01:07:24,910
observe.
1500
01:07:25,810 --> 01:07:31,750
Because they know oftentimes that shouldn't be happening
1501
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:34,410
or that's going to create some conflict, but
1502
01:07:34,410 --> 01:07:36,330
they don't want to overstep that bounds.
1503
01:07:38,050 --> 01:07:39,770
And that's not the case.
1504
01:07:40,070 --> 01:07:43,090
You're all responsible for the outcomes of what
1505
01:07:43,090 --> 01:07:45,290
happens with the system, no matter what age
1506
01:07:45,290 --> 01:07:47,630
no matter what role you play.
1507
01:07:47,950 --> 01:07:51,110
So how do you keep the business open
1508
01:07:51,110 --> 01:07:53,130
to change when the founder built it a
1509
01:07:53,130 --> 01:07:53,670
certain way?
1510
01:07:55,620 --> 01:07:59,020
You do that because you're guaranteed that if
1511
01:07:59,020 --> 01:08:01,380
you keep on the same path, it's not
1512
01:08:01,380 --> 01:08:03,900
going to survive unless it adapts and it's
1513
01:08:03,900 --> 01:08:11,400
flexible and it's viable to reimagine what is
1514
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,360
the world today and what are the risks
1515
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,560
that we- If they don't change.
1516
01:08:15,620 --> 01:08:16,380
If they don't change.
1517
01:08:16,380 --> 01:08:20,180
We don't have an option except to adapt
1518
01:08:20,180 --> 01:08:24,040
into a very agile, adaptive learning organization.
1519
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:26,779
If you look at the histories of these
1520
01:08:26,779 --> 01:08:28,740
family businesses, they've had to adapt a lot.
1521
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,620
They may have started multiple divisions and had
1522
01:08:31,620 --> 01:08:33,020
to change based on the marketplace.
1523
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:35,439
They may have hired a lot of people
1524
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:36,840
that weren't the right fit at times and
1525
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:37,979
made changes with that.
1526
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,200
And to know that and reflect on that
1527
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,220
because it's going to be a lot of
1528
01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:43,859
learning and growth for that second generation.
1529
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,060
I mean, I know I've heard you say
1530
01:08:45,060 --> 01:08:47,040
it's hardest to go from the first to
1531
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,000
second generation, even that it's miraculous when it
1532
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:50,399
happens.
1533
01:08:50,500 --> 01:08:52,319
Or you've referenced that before.
1534
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,300
Can you talk a little bit about that?
1535
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,460
Well, yeah, that comes from a mentor of
1536
01:08:57,460 --> 01:08:59,279
mine by the name of James E.
1537
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,560
Hughes, who's written, I don't know how many
1538
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:07,380
books, but he once said that in order
1539
01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:11,240
for a first generation to transition to a
1540
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,520
second generation or really a second to third,
1541
01:09:15,060 --> 01:09:16,319
it's an impossibility.
1542
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,000
But when it happens, it's a miracle.
1543
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:24,540
And that's how challenging, but it's also a
1544
01:09:24,540 --> 01:09:27,899
great opportunity because today things have progressed so
1545
01:09:27,899 --> 01:09:30,800
much that it's not about getting bigger and
1546
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:31,100
bigger.
1547
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,220
There's a fellow by the name of E
1548
01:09:34,220 --> 01:09:37,180
.F. Schumacher wrote the book, Small is Beautiful.
1549
01:09:37,540 --> 01:09:42,000
It's about being flexible, agile, nimble, and being
1550
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,439
adjusting, being able to adjust in different parts
1551
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,840
of the family and the organization.
1552
01:09:48,300 --> 01:09:51,420
And because you're serving a higher purpose.
1553
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:53,160
Yeah, that makes sense.
1554
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,340
So Clem, if you could challenge family business
1555
01:09:56,340 --> 01:09:58,300
leaders to do one thing to grow here,
1556
01:09:58,900 --> 01:10:00,420
what would it be?
1557
01:10:02,340 --> 01:10:05,740
Become much more familiar and more self-aware
1558
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:10,320
of why God created you and what it
1559
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,860
is that you believe he's calling you to
1560
01:10:14,860 --> 01:10:15,840
be and to do.
1561
01:10:18,380 --> 01:10:21,160
That you dream a dream so big that
1562
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:22,820
only he can help you fulfill it.
1563
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,000
And it's our own work.
1564
01:10:26,620 --> 01:10:30,120
It has to start with ourselves, the willingness
1565
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:33,040
to step up and the willingness because you
1566
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:37,160
love and care to be engaged and be
1567
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:42,260
able to support the rising generation, being able
1568
01:10:42,260 --> 01:10:44,700
to support those that have been a part
1569
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:47,640
of that legacy in a way that strengthens
1570
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:51,820
the future generations for this to continue for
1571
01:10:51,820 --> 01:10:53,240
many years to come.
1572
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,020
Yeah, be willing.
1573
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:07,080
Yeah, that's, so in summary, just briefly, 10,
1574
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,640
we have, this was not exactly how Clem
1575
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:14,340
described it, but he, three decisions were in
1576
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:17,420
summary, tend to the roots and strengthen the
1577
01:11:17,420 --> 01:11:19,000
trunk and hunt the termites.
1578
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,160
That's how it's described in the article.
1579
01:11:20,580 --> 01:11:22,520
And that's a lot of work.
1580
01:11:23,480 --> 01:11:28,700
That's some real stepping back and focusing on
1581
01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:31,220
what matters most is what I, how I
1582
01:11:31,220 --> 01:11:31,940
would describe it.
1583
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,980
So how can people get ahold of you,
1584
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:36,400
Clem, if they want to learn more, how
1585
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:37,240
can they connect with you?
1586
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,860
They could reach me by phone.
1587
01:11:40,140 --> 01:11:40,400
Okay.
1588
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:46,400
And 316-644-0688.
1589
01:11:50,220 --> 01:11:53,860
And I'd be happy to try to answer
1590
01:11:53,860 --> 01:11:55,220
any questions they might have.
1591
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:57,620
Okay, yeah, very good.
1592
01:11:57,620 --> 01:12:01,040
So I want to close and encourage you
1593
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,160
to connect with Clem and you know how
1594
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:03,720
to reach me.
1595
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,140
But I thought about, as I wrote this
1596
01:12:06,140 --> 01:12:08,640
podcast, you know, I thought about just how
1597
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,700
even recently I've been triggered with my own
1598
01:12:11,700 --> 01:12:12,140
family.
1599
01:12:13,220 --> 01:12:15,160
And so I can, as I mentioned, get
1600
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,680
jealous when my parents go and visit my
1601
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,420
brother or have Thanksgiving with my brother and
1602
01:12:20,420 --> 01:12:20,980
not me.
1603
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,880
And even this current upcoming Thanksgiving, it's going
1604
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:25,720
to be in New Orleans.
1605
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:29,100
And I've realized that I have not always
1606
01:12:29,100 --> 01:12:32,880
expressed my jealousy and I've not always expressed
1607
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:34,940
this feeling of favoritism.
1608
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:36,120
And I don't know how accurate it is,
1609
01:12:36,140 --> 01:12:36,400
honestly.
1610
01:12:36,540 --> 01:12:38,300
I do believe my parents love me and
1611
01:12:38,300 --> 01:12:39,760
they love us all.
1612
01:12:40,020 --> 01:12:42,280
So I shared it though with my mom
1613
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:43,980
and dad, had a discussion about it.
1614
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,540
And for some reason, the things, some of
1615
01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:49,860
that resentment, even though I'm 53 years old,
1616
01:12:49,980 --> 01:12:51,800
you know, dissipated because I talked to him
1617
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:52,220
about it.
1618
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,060
And it was not the most enjoyable conversation,
1619
01:12:55,060 --> 01:12:57,520
but for some reason I could accept it
1620
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:57,860
better.
1621
01:12:58,460 --> 01:13:02,120
And it's amazing because a tree without healthy
1622
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,440
roots can't stand the test of time and
1623
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:05,660
neither can a family business.
1624
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,820
The legacy isn't the business you hand down.
1625
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,380
It's the family that's still standing when you
1626
01:13:11,380 --> 01:13:11,700
do.
1627
01:13:12,220 --> 01:13:12,880
Right there.
1628
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:14,700
And so I want to challenge you in
1629
01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:15,460
the audience today.
1630
01:13:15,580 --> 01:13:18,100
What insight did you gain from listening to
1631
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:22,040
Clem and hearing about this valuable, extremely valuable
1632
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,220
content on passing down a family business?
1633
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:26,120
What did you gain?
1634
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:29,260
Because there's no positive change unless you take
1635
01:13:29,260 --> 01:13:30,160
some kind of an action.
1636
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,600
Insight, if you're going to make a change
1637
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,680
in your life and your business, insight is
1638
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,100
about 20% of change, I find.
1639
01:13:36,180 --> 01:13:37,640
You can gain insight from good books, from
1640
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:39,580
listening to this podcast, from listening to Clem.
1641
01:13:40,180 --> 01:13:42,680
And the action is 80% plus.
1642
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,040
Do something with it.
1643
01:13:44,140 --> 01:13:45,260
Talk to somebody about it.
1644
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:46,980
Make a commitment to step back from the
1645
01:13:46,980 --> 01:13:49,740
business and start answering some of these questions.
1646
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,040
Reach out and get help.
1647
01:13:51,820 --> 01:13:55,600
And so if this has resonated with you,
1648
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,040
please subscribe and leave a rating and review
1649
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:02,500
somewhere on Apple or Spotify or go check
1650
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:03,480
out the video on YouTube.
1651
01:14:03,660 --> 01:14:05,480
You can check out this article in the
1652
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:06,760
show notes from today.
1653
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,080
And you can reach out to Clem.
1654
01:14:09,220 --> 01:14:12,180
There's no positive change until you decide to
1655
01:14:12,180 --> 01:14:12,660
change.
1656
01:14:13,060 --> 01:14:15,580
To decide means you're eliminating other options.
1657
01:14:16,060 --> 01:14:18,560
Your legacy is the impact your life has
1658
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,180
on others today, starting today.
1659
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:22,240
You decide your legacy.
1660
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,480
Nobody else gets to decide that for you.
1661
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:26,700
You decide your legacy for your business, for
1662
01:14:26,700 --> 01:14:27,680
your life, for your family.
1663
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:28,960
You decide your legacy.
1664
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:29,920
Start today.
1665
01:14:30,340 --> 01:14:31,340
I appreciate you greatly.
1666
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,300
And I'll talk to you next time.
1667
01:14:33,620 --> 01:14:35,340
And thank you very much for being here,
1668
01:14:35,380 --> 01:14:35,560
Clem.
1669
01:14:35,820 --> 01:14:37,660
I really appreciate having you on here today.
1670
01:14:38,180 --> 01:14:39,780
So really great insight.
1671
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:40,640
Great information.
