speaker-0: Welcome back to DCJS Dialogue. Today, we're talking with a leader who spent his career on the front lines of public safety with a deep commitment to serving and protecting the citizens of the Southern Tier. From years in law enforcement to shaping policy at the state level, he brings a unique perspective on what it takes to build safe communities. His hands-on approach and focus on collaboration have helped him strengthen partnership, support officers, and drive meaningful change across his community. Please welcome... Broom County Sheriff Fred Akshar. Thank you so much for joining me.
speaker-1: Commissioner, it is a pleasure to see you. It's a pleasure to be on your podcast. I am ⁓ truly looking forward to the conversation that we'll have today.
speaker-0: Me too, because I've been admiring the work you've been doing out in Broome County and in Binghamton. ⁓ So you had an interesting experience, and we've talked about this in the past, when you spent seven years in Albany. I want you to talk about how did that affect the way you lead today?
speaker-1: You know, I'll tell you, I never thought I'd have an opportunity to go, but, you know, as you had mentioned during the outset, you know, I spent 13 years in law enforcement, had the great pleasure of working in so many different capacities, became the undersheriff in Broome County, albeit for a very short period of time, and then had the opportunity to run for public office. You know, I tell people all the time, my experiences in Albany, the seven years that I spent there, think truly ⁓ molded me into the person that I am today and has helped me, it helped me become a much more effective leader in terms of leading this organization. So while I took a break, so to speak, from law enforcement, ⁓ the time I spent away from the badge certainly ⁓ helped kind of. make me into the person, make me into the leader that I am today.
speaker-0: I think for many of us that's true when we leave the Corps, even though you knew you were gonna go back home, but to take a break from the Corps and spend some time in a different area. that Albany is the best place, but you came across people who you wouldn't have crossed paths with, right?
speaker-1: Yeah, I'll tell you what I think was most important, right? As I reflect is that, you know, and I'm happy to say this, I share publicly all the time. When you, when you operate in a space and I think you'll agree with me for so long, you begin to view the world through only that lens and, know, go leaving law enforcement, go into Albany. You began to view the world through a much larger lens. And I think most importantly, you started to view the world through the lens of others. And that is what is critically important. think to shaping public policy or moving public policy forward in a meaningful way. So my friend, Jamal Bailey, and I consider him a friend, albeit we are of different political persuasion, but we served on very important committees together. And having the opportunity to have meaningful conversations with someone like Jamal Bailey or Gustavo Rivera, viewing the world through their lens in addition to my lens. was incredibly meaningful and impactful in terms of the way I govern today and of course the way I governed when I was in Albany.
speaker-0: It also makes you realize how similar we are, right? Regardless of where we feel politically, how similar our experience is, how we came from generations of parents who really sacrificed so that we could have these important positions today. So I know that you're happy to be back home and you have your dream job in Broome County. ⁓ Is there such thing as an average day?
speaker-1: You know, don't think so. It's interesting, ⁓ Emmanuel Priest, my director of communications, he's the public information officer here. ⁓ know, obviously he was with me when I was in Albany. He's with me now here at the office. you know, the work is just, and he mentions this, right? The work is just so much different, right? And it's a matter of life and death, you know, every single day and the decisions that we make. The day is always different. ⁓ But You know, what I love the most and I shared this with you before is at the end of the day, barring an emergency, you know, I have the good fortune of going home, being with my wife and my children. And I didn't necessarily have that when I was, when I was in Albany and you know, being, being present and being able to help raise our children with my wife is, most important to me. And this is my dream job. I will tell you, you know, publicly. my public life ⁓ in terms of public service, this really has been the best job that I could have ever asked for.
speaker-0: I think it's great and serving in your hometown is also special. I came to state government, it's like a second career, because I did 30 years in media and my kids were already in college. When I look at my colleagues in the state, kind of when you have to travel the state and all that, I look at my colleagues, the people who work with me at DCJS, I couldn't have done this while raising kids. I would not have been home enough. And so ⁓ I think it's... ⁓ It's great that you get the two things. You get to be a public servant, but you get to be in your hometown. And that's very special because we see in this work in criminal justice, we see so many examples of when parenting doesn't go well, where people wind up. And so it makes you even more present with your family. So I hear that. ⁓ I really love what you're doing. you know, in the jail. So I want you to talk a little bit about that because you don't have to do programs, but I think ⁓ you have so many programs going on and this whole concept about trying to make the time count so that when people get back into the community, we've given them something more, right, than what they came to us with. And so I think it's, you know, we have several sheriffs, you know, in the state who are really doing this. Again, regardless of political views, they're really focused on what we do with folks while we have them. ⁓ And I would love to hear about your views on
speaker-1: Yeah, I'll tell you. there's a recognition. again, I look back on my time in Albany, ⁓ you know, in conversations that we had there or shaping public policy while there. was an acknowledgement on the part of the undersheriff and I that ⁓ a couple of things, right? You can, I learned very early when I came back here and as I was preparing to come back, you know, you can be law and order, but you can also equally ⁓ make time. and acknowledge that it is incredibly important for the community's success to meet the incarcerated where they are and have a willingness to give them the tools they need to be successful. At the end of the day, my number one priority as Broome County's 58th sheriff is to keep this community safe. All so we do that in a whole host of ways. But one of the ways that we reduce recidivism, right? Meet people where they are, give them the tools they need to be successful. ⁓ And then when they go back out in the community, our hope of course, and I know your hope is and your staff's hope is that they're not reoffending. They're not creating new victims when they go back on the street. And that's really, that's been our mentality, right? Like, know, but for the grace of God, there go I. ⁓ And you you don't know. Unless you've walked in a person's shoes, you don't know what they've been through in life. You don't know why they got here. But what we do know is that we have people who are with us. We average about 450 or 475 people on any given day. Kind of a medium sized facility, as you well know. It's incumbent upon us as leaders to meet these folks where they are and at least give them an opportunity. to change their lives, recognizing that not everyone is going to do that. ⁓ But you know what? is we would be falling far short if we did not take that approach. that's our commitment. So we can proactively enforce the law. We can hold people accountable. ⁓ And at the same time, we can acknowledge that we must give people the tools they need to be successful so they're not reoffending when they go back into the community. And I've been incredibly proud ⁓ of the people in this community that have stepped up and said, we wanna be part of that process. We wanna be part of helping keep our community safe. I've been super blessed to have so many people in the community that have stepped up as well.
speaker-0: Good. And do you know, like, I know you like data. ⁓ So do you know more or less what's the profile, you know, do you have a lot of young people or is it kind of across the board?
speaker-1: No, so we have about 4 % of the population is between the ages of 18 and 21. You the largest segment of the population is between the ages of 22 and 40, about 56%. Or kind like in the mid thirties when you go to 41 to 60 and then, you know, the balance is the older population 61 to 80, the number is very low, you one or 2%. But you know, kind of that 22 to 40 years old is the majority of the population that is with us. You know, ⁓ you mean type of crime? Yes. Yeah, unfortunately, you you see a lot of property crime. Of course, we certainly have gun activity. have, you know, unfortunately, homicide activity in the county. But, you know, I would say much lower than other parts, more urban parts of the state, of course, but ⁓ a lot of property crime.
speaker-0: and crimes. And how do you use data to decide policy?
speaker-1: Yeah, I would say it is a driving force in everything we do, right? So ⁓ thanks to ⁓ the governor's commitment and your commitment in terms of the Crime Analysis Center, we have one here in the Southern Tier. ⁓ Albeit it's bursting at the seams, as you well know, because it's grown so fast. ⁓ It's housed in Binghamton. ⁓ Data drives... ⁓ nearly every single thing that we do, whether it's deploying resources or if it's creating a new program. ⁓ Thanks to Joe Popkin, we're having very meaningful conversations with DCGS right now about. really taking a deep dive into ⁓ our recidivism numbers locally, really taking a granular look because ⁓ I think you mentioned this the other day, right? Is the juice worth the squeeze, so to speak? So we wanna make sure that we've made all of these changes, right? We've implemented all of these programmatic changes internally. Is it having a meaningful impact on those that are taking the... and programmatic opportunities, and is it having a meaningful impact for the community at large? I suspect when we're done with the project, we'll have a better idea of that. But numbers are critically important to us.
speaker-0: Yes, and I think it's important. One thing we're trying to do now that crime is relatively down in the state, you we have time to do some innovation and also to think about things. And one of the things that I'm a fan of is I know we collect, we in government collect all this data. I feel like we have a responsibility to return that data, you know, to the practitioners like yourself and also to the community to explain what we're doing. You know, we're not just, you know, spitballing here. You know, we have, we have programs that are based on the need. have, you know, evidence-based practices. We have examples in other parts of the state. I think you mentioned when we spoke that you had a model in Columbia County for programs. And so I want to be helpful at DCJS to help all of you in law enforcement tell that story, return that information back to the community.
speaker-1: Not only from the jails perspective, but we're doing it on a monthly basis too, as we travel back into the community and meet with the Rotary Clubs of the world and the local supervisors and town board ⁓ members, to be able to put that public safety data together in a nice, neat package and then share that. I from my perspective as the principal, of course, I want folks to see what the men and women of law enforcement are doing every day on their behalf. I want to make sure that they understand that the monies that they've given us to administer this office are being used in a very meaningful way. And of course, you can tell stories about success stories, ⁓ but there is nothing better than to be able to look back and show people that data for them to review.
speaker-0: Yeah, so they can know where they stand and they can know where they stand versus other communities. When we were out there in Binghamton, I guess two years ago, ⁓ it was interesting that we have these snug programs, are kind of gun violence intervention. And we went to communities that had high incidence of shootings, which in Binghamton we didn't have. But the probation... practitioners there said, how do we get a snug program? Because some of the tactics we use in those programs go to ⁓ youth who are disengaged, right? They may not, know, they may be dropping out or they may be, and in the Binghamton area, we had a lot of rural youth. And so ⁓ I found it interesting. So we came back home and we said, okay, well, in communities where you don't really have the high incidence of shootings, but you have disengaged youth, how can we use these tactics, right? How can we? and that's what's been great about GIVE and the CAC, it allows us to see what works in other areas and try to tailor it to your community.
speaker-1: And we're seeing that regularly, right? That information come from the Crime Analysis Center, come from our give partners, right? Where, you know, whether it's a 28-day report or it's a weekly gun meeting, you know, whatever it is, bringing all of the practitioners. So say our agency has a gun arrest, you know, this past Saturday. On Monday morning, the folks in the Crime Analysis Center are going to be doing those workups. And then we're going to all come back as practitioners and discuss that particular case or a series of cases. ⁓ Are there common themes? Are there common players? Whatever it may be. ⁓ And then try to collectively address those issues. We just did a meeting last week. ⁓ It was at the Crime Analysis Center. to hear the partners, the intel coming out of the jail, Our other law enforcement partners throughout the community all working collectively to solve these cases, critically important to the safety of.
speaker-0: That collaboration is wonderful to watch. I was once in Buffalo and the guy who, because we do hire some former law enforcement, formal officers for these jobs. And he said, ⁓ I would love to be a detective again with this new technology because it's using Intel and it's also bringing everyone to the table. It seems important because you're able to, as a group of law enforcement folks, you know, kind of target the bad apples, you know who they are, and you know, and then you don't have to disturb the whole community. You can just say, okay, here's, you know, here's where the problem is. So that's been, we've had great success with the crime analysis centers. And we also have a great combination of people in there. You have young analysts, you have experienced kind of, you know, retired ⁓ cops, sheriffs, you know, law enforcement, people at different stages. You have the DAs, the DA investigators. I mean, it's wonderful to watch. It looks like little bit like CSI with all the screens, but it's a great view of a community.
speaker-1: Well, and I also think it speaks volumes to the commitment of the governor. It speaks volumes to your leadership at DCJS, bringing all of the practitioners together, giving them the resources that they need to be successful. You know, and this idea, ⁓ and we just discussed this again this week, you know, The issues we're having here in Binghamton, there can be a group of people doing the very same thing in Buffalo and in Syracuse and up in the North country. And now having the resources to know that this is a traveling group of people committing crimes against, maybe say it's the elderly, right? ⁓ And they're... When they're done in Binghamton, they're going to Buffalo and then the North country. So, you know, having all of those resources at your fingertips, all of the crime analysis centers and all of those people that you described working together to solve those crimes. And there are success story after success story, as you well know. And at the end of the day, again, it's a commitment from state government.
speaker-0: Yes, we have been very lucky to have the support from Governor Hoko to resource. And I want to say that our most important role at DCJ is we're so happy to be part of the infrastructure. Our most important role, in my view, is when we come to that table to bring community folks into that table, right? Because in the past, people said, well, know, crime is a problem of the cops. The cops can't do it alone. They need community folks. They need community influencers and they need community leaders, A, to know what you're doing. and be to be part of the solution. And what we found through the centers and through give is that some communities need different tweaking. They have different needs. And you'll be happy to know that now when we're looking, we're looking at a project in the Bronx right now that the boroughs are so big. But when we try to put a circle around like Purina Sanchez is a council woman, we put a circle around her district and we try to make it the size of a Utica or somewhere else where we're doing stuff. And then it's manageable. You work with two precincts and you you apply these evidence based practices because she just happened to have like six of the most major crimes in the last two years happened in her district. And, ⁓ and it wasn't a snug site. So we're, so all the experience we're having all over the state, we're able to trade stories and to, and, to look at best practices and we're able to speak the language of both law enforcement and you know, the community folks. think that the key for us has been bringing the community to the table so that You know, they have trust in the process. They know they see the data and then they see, you know, the numbers coming down in terms of crimes. It feels safer in one community. People didn't want the LPR's, the license plate readers. And then when they realized what they were being used for, they're like, okay, put it right over my garage. You know, I want to be part of the solution. ⁓
speaker-1: communicating effectively and having the community understand what you're doing and I think more importantly why you're doing it and how it impacts them. Our value here is community first. the platform of this organization. And part of that, to your point, I think is so critically important. If I could just go back to the jail for just a moment. Prior to assuming office on January 1st of 2023, we created what we call our Jail's Reentry Task Force. And this task force is made up of people who, their politics are different than mine, so to speak. We have previously incarcerated people who sit on this task force. We have community-based providers who are sitting on this task force. So when we talk about all of this change, know, tripling the amount of visitation that we currently have, the enhanced visitation program, we talk about the community garden that we created in 2023 in the green space in the middle of the jail, right, where the incarcerated are growing hundreds and hundreds of pounds of produce, giving it to organizations like ⁓ CHOW. or taking that produce and bringing it back and using it within the confines of the correctional facility, right? The learn programs over 60 hours of ⁓ educational material on the tablet. Like we didn't come up with those ideas ourselves, right? We brought stakeholders to the table and had meaningful, but sometimes difficult conversations about how we move forward in a very, very productive way. So either from the jail's perspective, involving the community in every single thing that we do, or even from a law enforcement perspective, engaging with the community to solve crime. Now there are some people who are critical of that. We shouldn't have to give you a tip because that's your job, it's not mine. But I've been amazed just at the amount of people who step up in a very meaningful way and help us. you know, solve crimes. very first day here as the sheriff, we had a young boy who was killed. He was riding his bicycle on the side of the road and a truck hit him. Very first day. And if it were not for the help, of course, the detectives, everybody did a remarkable job. But if it were not for the help of the community, I don't know as though we would have solved that crime. Community is just so important, every single thing that.
speaker-0: Absolutely. And we've, you we've been able to enhance that relationship. I to say that I'm the witness since I've been here four years. This is my fifth year at DCJS and we've seen many police departments all over the state really doing the right thing. My goal this year is to tell more of those stories because, you know, doing a good job doesn't always get the headlines, right? The headlines go to the most egregious incidents in our community. And I'm hoping to be able to to change that. ⁓ I wanted to ask you, ⁓ I know there's a lot of talk these days about ICE and the activities all over the state, and I know you have some strong positions I wanna give you a chance to express because I know everything you do is in the best interest of your community.
speaker-1: Yeah, so I've really on this issue, know, recognizing that it is certainly a polarized issue. We here in Broome County have really taken a very measured and pragmatic approach to what we are doing and what we're not doing. So, you know, my position. Again, and some people disagree with me on this wholeheartedly, ⁓ is that the men and women who work for me, we are not immigration and customs enforcement folks. don't do immigration work ⁓ on the street. I've taken a position on that, that that's the responsibility of the federal government. What I have said is that if our federal partners request our assistance to go after a known criminal, someone that has a ⁓ criminal background, somebody that is dangerous living in the Broome County community, then I will always support our partners in the federal government to do that. We're just not enforcing civil immigration issues on the street. ⁓ ICE has operated in Broome County maybe two or three times, specifically doing their work. They've asked us for assistance. They've asked us to use our place as a forward operating base. And I very respectfully said no, because I think we have listened to the people in the community and that's not exactly what they expect of us. What we are doing, Commissioner, and this organization for a very long time, the better part of 25 years, has held federal detainees from a correctional perspective. I recognize that with the change in the administration, we were probably going to see an uptick in the amount of ICE detainees that we were holding. So on any given day, we hold about 20 ICE detainees, about 40 or 45 US Marshal detainees. So we are continuing to hold. both ⁓ the US Marshal detainees, FBI, ATF, as well as ICE. So we're continuing that practice. ⁓ Having spent seven years in Albany, I recognize that change is on the horizon. So we started to have those conversations with our federal partners that, look, I think at the end of the day, I personally, Commissioner, believe that New York for all goes too far. ⁓ I had an opportunity to speak with the governor recently. I think the governor too has taken a very measured and pragmatic approach in addressing the issue. So, you know, based on that conversation, ⁓ based on being able to read tea leaves, so to speak, we're kind of transitioning out of this idea that we're going to hold people just on civil. ⁓ detainers and starting to transition into a posture ⁓ that is aligned with what the governor is proposing. I don't have an issue if you're holding people with judicial detainers.
speaker-0: committed crimes and she's been straight. She's been from the beginning. She said it. We will help you find the bad players. We will cooperate with people who are doing the right thing or you know, you know, she doesn't want ICE agents in schools and in other places just, you know, looking to see what somebody looks like. And then, you know, and then, you know, again, we have so many examples of how that's gone wrong.
speaker-1: to the country. And I think it's important and I said this to the governor during our conversations and I'll share it with you today. I don't want those things either, right? I don't want people who maybe look different than I to be uncomfortable, right? Living, working or raising their families in this community. That is wholly unfair. And I don't want to be part and parcel to something. that makes folks that don't necessarily look like me feel that way. I would stress to you that we're not involved in a task force model. We have trained nine of our members of corrections to be able to serve process within the confines of the facility. Now that has been a point of contention, I think, because it's part of the 287G program. But it's very important that I share with you, your viewers, that we not engaged in civil immigration enforcement on the street.
speaker-0: Thank you for that. Also, you shared a story when we spoke about Donna Lupardo, who I think is retiring this year. What was she scolding you about?
speaker-1: You know, I just, mentioned earlier about our learn program and it being, you know, a digital learning initiative. And when I was in Albany, there was a time, and again, you talk about personal growth, there was a time in my career as a Senator when I actually thought that the idea that the incarcerated would have access to a tablet ⁓ while they were incarcerated, I thought that was a terrible, terrible idea. Now this was many years ago. When I became the sheriff and I started to understand more clearly, you know, the benefit of the tablet and access to digital learning. And we launched the learn initiative ⁓ in the jail on the tablet. She was very quick to call me and say, do you remember when you fought against that on the floor of the Senate? ⁓ And sadly I did, but I think it speaks, I just think it speaks to that personal growth, right? Or that. that growth that we spoke about in terms of, you know, having meaningful conversations, viewing the world through a different lens and recognizing, you know, the impact of things that maybe you didn't think were impactful or beneficial. So ⁓ I'm going to miss the assembly woman. She's been a great partner. Yeah, she's been a great partner.
speaker-0: you'll activate her in different ways. know, things change, know, times change, you know, and I think we are at a point today, and I want to say that DCJS is part of that, that we bring to, ⁓ even to people, you know, who are incarcerated, you know, even in state prisons, we bring a humanity to it and say, okay, we're not going to look at people as numbers and as inmates, we don't call them that anymore, we call them incarcerated individuals to try to retain that humanity. And they say, okay, you take one human at a time. Can we help them? What do they need? That's what's great what's happening in the jails right now. You do an assessment and you say, maybe they need learning, maybe they need a skill, maybe they can train. I I love the image you painted of someone gardening, maybe in their regular life, they don't have time to do that because they're living a fast life or they're living with people who are involved in crime. And suddenly they find this passion. I you have, I heard once there were more cows in Boone County than people. But to be able to take that moment while you're in jail, you know, to just plant something and watch it grow, it must be special, right? And then it helps people get into a different mode, right? For when they come back.
speaker-1: to see it with your own eyes, right? To see the folks that are out in the green space and literally to see the fruits of their labor, right? And then to be used in a meaningful and impactful way to go to our friends at Cornell Cooperative Extension and have the female incarcerated individuals make zucchini bread at their commercial kitchen, right? And then bring it back to the facility and share with their... the other people who are incarcerated with them is meaningful, right? And in the hope, you know, to work with the trades, to build these raised bed gardens and then to have the trades want to, ⁓ you know, have people to create a jail on the job pipeline, right? So get out of jail and then, you know, get into an apprentice program with the trades. It's just meaningful. And you're seeing the fruits of that labor happen right in front of you. And I think commissioner at the end of the day, whether it's you and your position, me and mine, Our goal should be to leave it a little bit better than we found it. And I would hope that the collaboration that that, you know, New Yorkers are seeing between your organization and organizations like mine. We are we are in fact leaving New York a little bit better than we found it. We should.
speaker-0: Korean, and I think so. But even more than that, I go around saying this a lot. I think exactly what you described is about making communities whole, right? We recognize that some of our policies in the past were, yeah, they were law and order, but they were harsh. And now, you know, we bring this humanity and we're making communities whole and we're letting them be part of the law enforcement decisions. And then we're all reaping the benefits. And while we have this kind of low, right, this the crime rates are low, we're all taking a victory lap. We're also saying, well, what else can we fix, right? We have communities where they need some mental health services, and some people need a little more. ⁓ But I love that program you described, know, in the zucchini bread. You know, we have time to innovate. How do we take that to the next level? do we, you know, how do we take that to a farmer's market? You know, how do we train people for these careers? It's a one, to me, it's wonderful. Thank you to the investments of this governor that we get to do some innovation and maybe, you know, plan ⁓ post incarceration, post release for people to have careers that they didn't think about before. Thank you so much for joining us. And ⁓ do you have any parting remarks for our listeners about the role of law enforcement or are you having a tough time recruiting people? I think you said you were staffed up well,
speaker-1: Yeah, we are super blessed that, folks are looking to come here, right? Transfer into the organization. We're about 10 positions short in the jail. Certainly not as bad as some of my colleagues throughout the state. you know, Commissioner, I am. I am. humbled that the people allowed me to serve in this role. I hope of course that I am making the people of Broome County proud. Glad to have an opportunity to discuss some of the innovative things that we're doing in the community. But again, as I said earlier, we would not be able to do the things we're doing in a very forward thinking way if it were not for your support and the support of state government. again, I think it's just a It's an acknowledgement of, you know, there may be times when we disagree and that's okay. But what is most important is that we continue to come back to the table as people. We continue to have meaningful conversations about how we move the community forward and how we all collectively work to leave it a little bit better than we found it. ⁓ And I think we're doing that. ⁓ And that wouldn't happen if it weren't for leaders like yourself that continue to push that conversation forward. So I'm grateful.
speaker-0: Thank you. I'm grateful too and I'm so proud that again, you're doing this very important work in your hometown. Thank you for joining us.
speaker-1: Thanks Commissioner.
speaker-1: Commissioner, it is a pleasure to see you. It's a pleasure to be on your podcast. I am ⁓ truly looking forward to the conversation that we'll have today.
speaker-0: Me too, because I've been admiring the work you've been doing out in Broome County and in Binghamton. ⁓ So you had an interesting experience, and we've talked about this in the past, when you spent seven years in Albany. I want you to talk about how did that affect the way you lead today?
speaker-1: You know, I'll tell you, I never thought I'd have an opportunity to go, but, you know, as you had mentioned during the outset, you know, I spent 13 years in law enforcement, had the great pleasure of working in so many different capacities, became the undersheriff in Broome County, albeit for a very short period of time, and then had the opportunity to run for public office. You know, I tell people all the time, my experiences in Albany, the seven years that I spent there, think truly ⁓ molded me into the person that I am today and has helped me, it helped me become a much more effective leader in terms of leading this organization. So while I took a break, so to speak, from law enforcement, ⁓ the time I spent away from the badge certainly ⁓ helped kind of. make me into the person, make me into the leader that I am today.
speaker-0: I think for many of us that's true when we leave the Corps, even though you knew you were gonna go back home, but to take a break from the Corps and spend some time in a different area. that Albany is the best place, but you came across people who you wouldn't have crossed paths with, right?
speaker-1: Yeah, I'll tell you what I think was most important, right? As I reflect is that, you know, and I'm happy to say this, I share publicly all the time. When you, when you operate in a space and I think you'll agree with me for so long, you begin to view the world through only that lens and, know, go leaving law enforcement, go into Albany. You began to view the world through a much larger lens. And I think most importantly, you started to view the world through the lens of others. And that is what is critically important. think to shaping public policy or moving public policy forward in a meaningful way. So my friend, Jamal Bailey, and I consider him a friend, albeit we are of different political persuasion, but we served on very important committees together. And having the opportunity to have meaningful conversations with someone like Jamal Bailey or Gustavo Rivera, viewing the world through their lens in addition to my lens. was incredibly meaningful and impactful in terms of the way I govern today and of course the way I governed when I was in Albany.
speaker-0: It also makes you realize how similar we are, right? Regardless of where we feel politically, how similar our experience is, how we came from generations of parents who really sacrificed so that we could have these important positions today. So I know that you're happy to be back home and you have your dream job in Broome County. ⁓ Is there such thing as an average day?
speaker-1: You know, don't think so. It's interesting, ⁓ Emmanuel Priest, my director of communications, he's the public information officer here. ⁓ know, obviously he was with me when I was in Albany. He's with me now here at the office. you know, the work is just, and he mentions this, right? The work is just so much different, right? And it's a matter of life and death, you know, every single day and the decisions that we make. The day is always different. ⁓ But You know, what I love the most and I shared this with you before is at the end of the day, barring an emergency, you know, I have the good fortune of going home, being with my wife and my children. And I didn't necessarily have that when I was, when I was in Albany and you know, being, being present and being able to help raise our children with my wife is, most important to me. And this is my dream job. I will tell you, you know, publicly. my public life ⁓ in terms of public service, this really has been the best job that I could have ever asked for.
speaker-0: I think it's great and serving in your hometown is also special. I came to state government, it's like a second career, because I did 30 years in media and my kids were already in college. When I look at my colleagues in the state, kind of when you have to travel the state and all that, I look at my colleagues, the people who work with me at DCJS, I couldn't have done this while raising kids. I would not have been home enough. And so ⁓ I think it's... ⁓ It's great that you get the two things. You get to be a public servant, but you get to be in your hometown. And that's very special because we see in this work in criminal justice, we see so many examples of when parenting doesn't go well, where people wind up. And so it makes you even more present with your family. So I hear that. ⁓ I really love what you're doing. you know, in the jail. So I want you to talk a little bit about that because you don't have to do programs, but I think ⁓ you have so many programs going on and this whole concept about trying to make the time count so that when people get back into the community, we've given them something more, right, than what they came to us with. And so I think it's, you know, we have several sheriffs, you know, in the state who are really doing this. Again, regardless of political views, they're really focused on what we do with folks while we have them. ⁓ And I would love to hear about your views on
speaker-1: Yeah, I'll tell you. there's a recognition. again, I look back on my time in Albany, ⁓ you know, in conversations that we had there or shaping public policy while there. was an acknowledgement on the part of the undersheriff and I that ⁓ a couple of things, right? You can, I learned very early when I came back here and as I was preparing to come back, you know, you can be law and order, but you can also equally ⁓ make time. and acknowledge that it is incredibly important for the community's success to meet the incarcerated where they are and have a willingness to give them the tools they need to be successful. At the end of the day, my number one priority as Broome County's 58th sheriff is to keep this community safe. All so we do that in a whole host of ways. But one of the ways that we reduce recidivism, right? Meet people where they are, give them the tools they need to be successful. ⁓ And then when they go back out in the community, our hope of course, and I know your hope is and your staff's hope is that they're not reoffending. They're not creating new victims when they go back on the street. And that's really, that's been our mentality, right? Like, know, but for the grace of God, there go I. ⁓ And you you don't know. Unless you've walked in a person's shoes, you don't know what they've been through in life. You don't know why they got here. But what we do know is that we have people who are with us. We average about 450 or 475 people on any given day. Kind of a medium sized facility, as you well know. It's incumbent upon us as leaders to meet these folks where they are and at least give them an opportunity. to change their lives, recognizing that not everyone is going to do that. ⁓ But you know what? is we would be falling far short if we did not take that approach. that's our commitment. So we can proactively enforce the law. We can hold people accountable. ⁓ And at the same time, we can acknowledge that we must give people the tools they need to be successful so they're not reoffending when they go back into the community. And I've been incredibly proud ⁓ of the people in this community that have stepped up and said, we wanna be part of that process. We wanna be part of helping keep our community safe. I've been super blessed to have so many people in the community that have stepped up as well.
speaker-0: Good. And do you know, like, I know you like data. ⁓ So do you know more or less what's the profile, you know, do you have a lot of young people or is it kind of across the board?
speaker-1: No, so we have about 4 % of the population is between the ages of 18 and 21. You the largest segment of the population is between the ages of 22 and 40, about 56%. Or kind like in the mid thirties when you go to 41 to 60 and then, you know, the balance is the older population 61 to 80, the number is very low, you one or 2%. But you know, kind of that 22 to 40 years old is the majority of the population that is with us. You know, ⁓ you mean type of crime? Yes. Yeah, unfortunately, you you see a lot of property crime. Of course, we certainly have gun activity. have, you know, unfortunately, homicide activity in the county. But, you know, I would say much lower than other parts, more urban parts of the state, of course, but ⁓ a lot of property crime.
speaker-0: and crimes. And how do you use data to decide policy?
speaker-1: Yeah, I would say it is a driving force in everything we do, right? So ⁓ thanks to ⁓ the governor's commitment and your commitment in terms of the Crime Analysis Center, we have one here in the Southern Tier. ⁓ Albeit it's bursting at the seams, as you well know, because it's grown so fast. ⁓ It's housed in Binghamton. ⁓ Data drives... ⁓ nearly every single thing that we do, whether it's deploying resources or if it's creating a new program. ⁓ Thanks to Joe Popkin, we're having very meaningful conversations with DCGS right now about. really taking a deep dive into ⁓ our recidivism numbers locally, really taking a granular look because ⁓ I think you mentioned this the other day, right? Is the juice worth the squeeze, so to speak? So we wanna make sure that we've made all of these changes, right? We've implemented all of these programmatic changes internally. Is it having a meaningful impact on those that are taking the... and programmatic opportunities, and is it having a meaningful impact for the community at large? I suspect when we're done with the project, we'll have a better idea of that. But numbers are critically important to us.
speaker-0: Yes, and I think it's important. One thing we're trying to do now that crime is relatively down in the state, you we have time to do some innovation and also to think about things. And one of the things that I'm a fan of is I know we collect, we in government collect all this data. I feel like we have a responsibility to return that data, you know, to the practitioners like yourself and also to the community to explain what we're doing. You know, we're not just, you know, spitballing here. You know, we have, we have programs that are based on the need. have, you know, evidence-based practices. We have examples in other parts of the state. I think you mentioned when we spoke that you had a model in Columbia County for programs. And so I want to be helpful at DCJS to help all of you in law enforcement tell that story, return that information back to the community.
speaker-1: Not only from the jails perspective, but we're doing it on a monthly basis too, as we travel back into the community and meet with the Rotary Clubs of the world and the local supervisors and town board ⁓ members, to be able to put that public safety data together in a nice, neat package and then share that. I from my perspective as the principal, of course, I want folks to see what the men and women of law enforcement are doing every day on their behalf. I want to make sure that they understand that the monies that they've given us to administer this office are being used in a very meaningful way. And of course, you can tell stories about success stories, ⁓ but there is nothing better than to be able to look back and show people that data for them to review.
speaker-0: Yeah, so they can know where they stand and they can know where they stand versus other communities. When we were out there in Binghamton, I guess two years ago, ⁓ it was interesting that we have these snug programs, are kind of gun violence intervention. And we went to communities that had high incidence of shootings, which in Binghamton we didn't have. But the probation... practitioners there said, how do we get a snug program? Because some of the tactics we use in those programs go to ⁓ youth who are disengaged, right? They may not, know, they may be dropping out or they may be, and in the Binghamton area, we had a lot of rural youth. And so ⁓ I found it interesting. So we came back home and we said, okay, well, in communities where you don't really have the high incidence of shootings, but you have disengaged youth, how can we use these tactics, right? How can we? and that's what's been great about GIVE and the CAC, it allows us to see what works in other areas and try to tailor it to your community.
speaker-1: And we're seeing that regularly, right? That information come from the Crime Analysis Center, come from our give partners, right? Where, you know, whether it's a 28-day report or it's a weekly gun meeting, you know, whatever it is, bringing all of the practitioners. So say our agency has a gun arrest, you know, this past Saturday. On Monday morning, the folks in the Crime Analysis Center are going to be doing those workups. And then we're going to all come back as practitioners and discuss that particular case or a series of cases. ⁓ Are there common themes? Are there common players? Whatever it may be. ⁓ And then try to collectively address those issues. We just did a meeting last week. ⁓ It was at the Crime Analysis Center. to hear the partners, the intel coming out of the jail, Our other law enforcement partners throughout the community all working collectively to solve these cases, critically important to the safety of.
speaker-0: That collaboration is wonderful to watch. I was once in Buffalo and the guy who, because we do hire some former law enforcement, formal officers for these jobs. And he said, ⁓ I would love to be a detective again with this new technology because it's using Intel and it's also bringing everyone to the table. It seems important because you're able to, as a group of law enforcement folks, you know, kind of target the bad apples, you know who they are, and you know, and then you don't have to disturb the whole community. You can just say, okay, here's, you know, here's where the problem is. So that's been, we've had great success with the crime analysis centers. And we also have a great combination of people in there. You have young analysts, you have experienced kind of, you know, retired ⁓ cops, sheriffs, you know, law enforcement, people at different stages. You have the DAs, the DA investigators. I mean, it's wonderful to watch. It looks like little bit like CSI with all the screens, but it's a great view of a community.
speaker-1: Well, and I also think it speaks volumes to the commitment of the governor. It speaks volumes to your leadership at DCJS, bringing all of the practitioners together, giving them the resources that they need to be successful. You know, and this idea, ⁓ and we just discussed this again this week, you know, The issues we're having here in Binghamton, there can be a group of people doing the very same thing in Buffalo and in Syracuse and up in the North country. And now having the resources to know that this is a traveling group of people committing crimes against, maybe say it's the elderly, right? ⁓ And they're... When they're done in Binghamton, they're going to Buffalo and then the North country. So, you know, having all of those resources at your fingertips, all of the crime analysis centers and all of those people that you described working together to solve those crimes. And there are success story after success story, as you well know. And at the end of the day, again, it's a commitment from state government.
speaker-0: Yes, we have been very lucky to have the support from Governor Hoko to resource. And I want to say that our most important role at DCJ is we're so happy to be part of the infrastructure. Our most important role, in my view, is when we come to that table to bring community folks into that table, right? Because in the past, people said, well, know, crime is a problem of the cops. The cops can't do it alone. They need community folks. They need community influencers and they need community leaders, A, to know what you're doing. and be to be part of the solution. And what we found through the centers and through give is that some communities need different tweaking. They have different needs. And you'll be happy to know that now when we're looking, we're looking at a project in the Bronx right now that the boroughs are so big. But when we try to put a circle around like Purina Sanchez is a council woman, we put a circle around her district and we try to make it the size of a Utica or somewhere else where we're doing stuff. And then it's manageable. You work with two precincts and you you apply these evidence based practices because she just happened to have like six of the most major crimes in the last two years happened in her district. And, ⁓ and it wasn't a snug site. So we're, so all the experience we're having all over the state, we're able to trade stories and to, and, to look at best practices and we're able to speak the language of both law enforcement and you know, the community folks. think that the key for us has been bringing the community to the table so that You know, they have trust in the process. They know they see the data and then they see, you know, the numbers coming down in terms of crimes. It feels safer in one community. People didn't want the LPR's, the license plate readers. And then when they realized what they were being used for, they're like, okay, put it right over my garage. You know, I want to be part of the solution. ⁓
speaker-1: communicating effectively and having the community understand what you're doing and I think more importantly why you're doing it and how it impacts them. Our value here is community first. the platform of this organization. And part of that, to your point, I think is so critically important. If I could just go back to the jail for just a moment. Prior to assuming office on January 1st of 2023, we created what we call our Jail's Reentry Task Force. And this task force is made up of people who, their politics are different than mine, so to speak. We have previously incarcerated people who sit on this task force. We have community-based providers who are sitting on this task force. So when we talk about all of this change, know, tripling the amount of visitation that we currently have, the enhanced visitation program, we talk about the community garden that we created in 2023 in the green space in the middle of the jail, right, where the incarcerated are growing hundreds and hundreds of pounds of produce, giving it to organizations like ⁓ CHOW. or taking that produce and bringing it back and using it within the confines of the correctional facility, right? The learn programs over 60 hours of ⁓ educational material on the tablet. Like we didn't come up with those ideas ourselves, right? We brought stakeholders to the table and had meaningful, but sometimes difficult conversations about how we move forward in a very, very productive way. So either from the jail's perspective, involving the community in every single thing that we do, or even from a law enforcement perspective, engaging with the community to solve crime. Now there are some people who are critical of that. We shouldn't have to give you a tip because that's your job, it's not mine. But I've been amazed just at the amount of people who step up in a very meaningful way and help us. you know, solve crimes. very first day here as the sheriff, we had a young boy who was killed. He was riding his bicycle on the side of the road and a truck hit him. Very first day. And if it were not for the help, of course, the detectives, everybody did a remarkable job. But if it were not for the help of the community, I don't know as though we would have solved that crime. Community is just so important, every single thing that.
speaker-0: Absolutely. And we've, you we've been able to enhance that relationship. I to say that I'm the witness since I've been here four years. This is my fifth year at DCJS and we've seen many police departments all over the state really doing the right thing. My goal this year is to tell more of those stories because, you know, doing a good job doesn't always get the headlines, right? The headlines go to the most egregious incidents in our community. And I'm hoping to be able to to change that. ⁓ I wanted to ask you, ⁓ I know there's a lot of talk these days about ICE and the activities all over the state, and I know you have some strong positions I wanna give you a chance to express because I know everything you do is in the best interest of your community.
speaker-1: Yeah, so I've really on this issue, know, recognizing that it is certainly a polarized issue. We here in Broome County have really taken a very measured and pragmatic approach to what we are doing and what we're not doing. So, you know, my position. Again, and some people disagree with me on this wholeheartedly, ⁓ is that the men and women who work for me, we are not immigration and customs enforcement folks. don't do immigration work ⁓ on the street. I've taken a position on that, that that's the responsibility of the federal government. What I have said is that if our federal partners request our assistance to go after a known criminal, someone that has a ⁓ criminal background, somebody that is dangerous living in the Broome County community, then I will always support our partners in the federal government to do that. We're just not enforcing civil immigration issues on the street. ⁓ ICE has operated in Broome County maybe two or three times, specifically doing their work. They've asked us for assistance. They've asked us to use our place as a forward operating base. And I very respectfully said no, because I think we have listened to the people in the community and that's not exactly what they expect of us. What we are doing, Commissioner, and this organization for a very long time, the better part of 25 years, has held federal detainees from a correctional perspective. I recognize that with the change in the administration, we were probably going to see an uptick in the amount of ICE detainees that we were holding. So on any given day, we hold about 20 ICE detainees, about 40 or 45 US Marshal detainees. So we are continuing to hold. both ⁓ the US Marshal detainees, FBI, ATF, as well as ICE. So we're continuing that practice. ⁓ Having spent seven years in Albany, I recognize that change is on the horizon. So we started to have those conversations with our federal partners that, look, I think at the end of the day, I personally, Commissioner, believe that New York for all goes too far. ⁓ I had an opportunity to speak with the governor recently. I think the governor too has taken a very measured and pragmatic approach in addressing the issue. So, you know, based on that conversation, ⁓ based on being able to read tea leaves, so to speak, we're kind of transitioning out of this idea that we're going to hold people just on civil. ⁓ detainers and starting to transition into a posture ⁓ that is aligned with what the governor is proposing. I don't have an issue if you're holding people with judicial detainers.
speaker-0: committed crimes and she's been straight. She's been from the beginning. She said it. We will help you find the bad players. We will cooperate with people who are doing the right thing or you know, you know, she doesn't want ICE agents in schools and in other places just, you know, looking to see what somebody looks like. And then, you know, and then, you know, again, we have so many examples of how that's gone wrong.
speaker-1: to the country. And I think it's important and I said this to the governor during our conversations and I'll share it with you today. I don't want those things either, right? I don't want people who maybe look different than I to be uncomfortable, right? Living, working or raising their families in this community. That is wholly unfair. And I don't want to be part and parcel to something. that makes folks that don't necessarily look like me feel that way. I would stress to you that we're not involved in a task force model. We have trained nine of our members of corrections to be able to serve process within the confines of the facility. Now that has been a point of contention, I think, because it's part of the 287G program. But it's very important that I share with you, your viewers, that we not engaged in civil immigration enforcement on the street.
speaker-0: Thank you for that. Also, you shared a story when we spoke about Donna Lupardo, who I think is retiring this year. What was she scolding you about?
speaker-1: You know, I just, mentioned earlier about our learn program and it being, you know, a digital learning initiative. And when I was in Albany, there was a time, and again, you talk about personal growth, there was a time in my career as a Senator when I actually thought that the idea that the incarcerated would have access to a tablet ⁓ while they were incarcerated, I thought that was a terrible, terrible idea. Now this was many years ago. When I became the sheriff and I started to understand more clearly, you know, the benefit of the tablet and access to digital learning. And we launched the learn initiative ⁓ in the jail on the tablet. She was very quick to call me and say, do you remember when you fought against that on the floor of the Senate? ⁓ And sadly I did, but I think it speaks, I just think it speaks to that personal growth, right? Or that. that growth that we spoke about in terms of, you know, having meaningful conversations, viewing the world through a different lens and recognizing, you know, the impact of things that maybe you didn't think were impactful or beneficial. So ⁓ I'm going to miss the assembly woman. She's been a great partner. Yeah, she's been a great partner.
speaker-0: you'll activate her in different ways. know, things change, know, times change, you know, and I think we are at a point today, and I want to say that DCJS is part of that, that we bring to, ⁓ even to people, you know, who are incarcerated, you know, even in state prisons, we bring a humanity to it and say, okay, we're not going to look at people as numbers and as inmates, we don't call them that anymore, we call them incarcerated individuals to try to retain that humanity. And they say, okay, you take one human at a time. Can we help them? What do they need? That's what's great what's happening in the jails right now. You do an assessment and you say, maybe they need learning, maybe they need a skill, maybe they can train. I I love the image you painted of someone gardening, maybe in their regular life, they don't have time to do that because they're living a fast life or they're living with people who are involved in crime. And suddenly they find this passion. I you have, I heard once there were more cows in Boone County than people. But to be able to take that moment while you're in jail, you know, to just plant something and watch it grow, it must be special, right? And then it helps people get into a different mode, right? For when they come back.
speaker-1: to see it with your own eyes, right? To see the folks that are out in the green space and literally to see the fruits of their labor, right? And then to be used in a meaningful and impactful way to go to our friends at Cornell Cooperative Extension and have the female incarcerated individuals make zucchini bread at their commercial kitchen, right? And then bring it back to the facility and share with their... the other people who are incarcerated with them is meaningful, right? And in the hope, you know, to work with the trades, to build these raised bed gardens and then to have the trades want to, ⁓ you know, have people to create a jail on the job pipeline, right? So get out of jail and then, you know, get into an apprentice program with the trades. It's just meaningful. And you're seeing the fruits of that labor happen right in front of you. And I think commissioner at the end of the day, whether it's you and your position, me and mine, Our goal should be to leave it a little bit better than we found it. And I would hope that the collaboration that that, you know, New Yorkers are seeing between your organization and organizations like mine. We are we are in fact leaving New York a little bit better than we found it. We should.
speaker-0: Korean, and I think so. But even more than that, I go around saying this a lot. I think exactly what you described is about making communities whole, right? We recognize that some of our policies in the past were, yeah, they were law and order, but they were harsh. And now, you know, we bring this humanity and we're making communities whole and we're letting them be part of the law enforcement decisions. And then we're all reaping the benefits. And while we have this kind of low, right, this the crime rates are low, we're all taking a victory lap. We're also saying, well, what else can we fix, right? We have communities where they need some mental health services, and some people need a little more. ⁓ But I love that program you described, know, in the zucchini bread. You know, we have time to innovate. How do we take that to the next level? do we, you know, how do we take that to a farmer's market? You know, how do we train people for these careers? It's a one, to me, it's wonderful. Thank you to the investments of this governor that we get to do some innovation and maybe, you know, plan ⁓ post incarceration, post release for people to have careers that they didn't think about before. Thank you so much for joining us. And ⁓ do you have any parting remarks for our listeners about the role of law enforcement or are you having a tough time recruiting people? I think you said you were staffed up well,
speaker-1: Yeah, we are super blessed that, folks are looking to come here, right? Transfer into the organization. We're about 10 positions short in the jail. Certainly not as bad as some of my colleagues throughout the state. you know, Commissioner, I am. I am. humbled that the people allowed me to serve in this role. I hope of course that I am making the people of Broome County proud. Glad to have an opportunity to discuss some of the innovative things that we're doing in the community. But again, as I said earlier, we would not be able to do the things we're doing in a very forward thinking way if it were not for your support and the support of state government. again, I think it's just a It's an acknowledgement of, you know, there may be times when we disagree and that's okay. But what is most important is that we continue to come back to the table as people. We continue to have meaningful conversations about how we move the community forward and how we all collectively work to leave it a little bit better than we found it. ⁓ And I think we're doing that. ⁓ And that wouldn't happen if it weren't for leaders like yourself that continue to push that conversation forward. So I'm grateful.
speaker-0: Thank you. I'm grateful too and I'm so proud that again, you're doing this very important work in your hometown. Thank you for joining us.
speaker-1: Thanks Commissioner.
