Maximizing Return On Decision (Kiri-Maree Moore)

This week on the Creative Genius Podcast, Gail Doby sits down with global advisor and strategist Kiri-Maree Moore, Founder and CEO of Decision Velocity Global. Kiri-Maree shares her powerful journey from initially resisting the label of “leader” to realizing the responsibility of leading others. She defines her mission: curating spaces where humans have a greater voice and helping leaders align their decisions with long-term success.

Listen in as Kiri-Maree discusses the biggest mistakes leaders make, often by failing to set a strong “GPS” or exhibiting a lack of ownership. She recounts the life-changing lesson she learned from Sir Richard Branson—whom she sees as a mentor—about thinking bigger and understanding the value of surrounding yourself with the right people. Kiri-Maree introduces her concept of Return on Decision—measuring decisions to ensure they are moving the business toward its goals, not away from them.

The conversation dives deep into the difference between management (dictatorship within a broken, static construct) and leadership (mentoring and empowering others to shine their light). Kiri-Maree also explains her fascination with patterns and the crucial need to exercise the muscle of human intelligence to achieve peak performance, accelerate cultural impact, and gain a measurable ROD.

Plus, hear the following discussions:

• Embrace New Approaches: We must adopt new approaches to leadership to change ineffective patterns and create new pathways to success.
• Exercise the Muscle of Human Intelligence (HI): Learning to exercise this muscle—gaining certainty in your truths and making smarter decisions—is the key to increasing peak performance and cultural impact.
• Demand a Measurable Return on Decision: Every decision, big or small, must be tracked to ensure it is adding to the mission, driving speed, curating capacity, and optimizing time and energy.

If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s14e4-shownotes

Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors.

Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Keri Marie. It is so great to have you here. I’ve only known you for 11 years when I met your husband. I met you at a retreat out in California, which was just wonderful. And actually back in the corral again with you all. But I am very excited to talk to you about leadership today.

what a great topic. Let’s get into it. And I’m so excited to be here. So thank you, Gail.

It’s our pleasure. So I think leadership starts, quite frankly, when you are a mom, don’t you think?

think anytime you make a decision and you’ve got people following you, I think that’s where leadership starts. And if you’re a mom, then that’s definitely a place in which it can start. I think for me, I mean, way before I was a mom, I was a leader in leading other people and taking them on a journey.

And when did you start realizing that that’s what you were, a leader?

Here’s the funny thing, and I think this is always funny when we talk about leadership. For a long time I did not want to think about leadership and being my name sort of being put into that pot as well. And the reason being is that I realized I didn’t really like leadership as a thought, as being a leader. What is a leader and what does that need to look like? It didn’t really look like a lot of fun and it definitely didn’t look like lots of good things happening there.

I just served other humans and I just did that and people would go, you’re such a great leader. I can see leadership on your life. And it sort of always was this word that followed with me rather than I went, I see myself as a leader. I just love serving other humans and helping to see that together we bring change. And I think there was never ever a moment that I went, I’m a leader.

There was a moment I walked away from leadership and said I don’t want to be involved in leadership and I had to come back and really own my place in leadership. But I don’t remember ever a moment saying, hey, all of a sudden I’m a leader.

Was there some sort of a shift or something that happened that all of a sudden you said, my gosh, I am just fascinated with this topic.

Yeah, I think what happened was, and you know me in the business world, I have always been fascinated with growth in the business world, but the thing that I saw that was not happening in the business world was leadership within it. I saw people wanting to build businesses, wanting to build companies, organizations, but they were ignoring this big thing called leadership. And I realized that was something that I was very passionate about.

to see that we do way better and more effectively. And it was that that I went, am I gonna take up that mentor and go, yes, I’m gonna walk in and really own in the leadership space, am I seat at the table or am I just gonna complain that I don’t like where leadership is going? And I felt there was a responsibility once I had that moment to go, I’m gonna own this.

I’m gonna really see what it is I don’t like, see what it is I love, and do more of that.

Well, you’re the founder and CEO of Decision Velocity Global, and I’d love to know a little bit more about your mission and your vision of that.

Thank you. I think the interesting part of it was I built originally what it looked like just like everyone else and meaning that it was a nice little business and kind of consulting in that way and realized that there was something else that I was doing but I wasn’t bringing it in my organization. And so I went back to the drawing board and we have evolved a lot in the last little while and I’m so excited at what

we’re bringing out and what that looks like. But really it went back to, like you said, what is the mission? What is the drive behind it? And reality was, I created what I did because I wanted to see how can we help curate spaces in which humans really can have a greater voice. I was one of those kids that grew up that didn’t have a voice. I was in leadership.

or under leadership that used it in the wrong way. I’ve been that person that has not had the seat at the table, pushed away, not looked like everyone else. And I realized that I wanted to curate spaces that everyone has the permission to be at the table. But how can we do that better? And what is that value that we bring? And if I can help people through looking at decisions.

and looking at the way in which we make them and do that more aligned with actually the long-term success of where you want to go, then that’s been a great day and that’s what we do in all that we look at, we work through and we create in Decision Velocity Global.

Great. Well, what are some of the things that you have seen as maybe the biggest mistakes that people make in trying to become a leader?

my gosh, where do we start with that? Right? And I think, you know, it’s funny because it’s like, what is that mission? And I think, you know, with anything, it’s like, if you think about that, you asked me that with the decision velocity global, and there’s so many pieces to what I do and how I do it. literally we could spend hours and hours on what the mission is. And I think that’s the difference between someone that knows

that this is where we are heading. And I always talk about setting your GPS to where you wanna go. And for me, that’s your global platform shift, right? Like what is that that you wanna stand for? What is that that you wanna head towards? What is that that you will get up every day and build whatever that is that you’re doing to be able to create, you know, curate the spaces to serve other humans and do it well.

And I think that is one thing that I don’t see well done in leadership is people setting that GPS. You see, depending what the economic landscape’s doing, it changes, or depending what the next trend is, or, my goodness, now everyone is canceling us, we better not say this, let’s change that. That direction of what people are setting keeps shifting and it gets diluted, it goes into chaos and…

I think that’s one of the biggest issues is that we are not setting it to where we know that’s what, and everyone’s individual to what that is and how you wanna play in that way, but we’re not standing strong on what that is. And then when we are setting it, we’re not in leadership, we’re not standing strong on what that is that you’re willing to stand strong no matter what.

We need leadership to take ownership. And I’m seeing this less and less and less. And I get it. It’s a scary world sometimes. It’s hard. You have to, you know, I don’t know how kosher you are here, but like grow some balls is what I would say. Like you literally have to sometimes get back up and have this resilience that others don’t realize.

it takes to stand strong today in leadership. And honestly, I don’t see a lot of that when, when, when the going gets tough, when it’s, when the challenges are hitting us. And there’s a lot of that. And reality is we have to build our leadership and what we’re willing to stand for in leadership, knowing that we are in this volatile world that can, can rock us.

But what does that mean and how will you still stand and what will you, you know, I hear a lot of people talking about brand right now because people are realizing that you can’t just build around what was, what used to happen and how everyone used to build it out. And people are going, you need to build your brand. No, people, we need to build what it is we’re going for and we need to build what we’re standing for and we need to create.

solutions and why this is so important to help others to come on that journey with us. And I think if that’s the sort of the things that are not working is we’re not taking people on a journey with us. We’re building a lot for ourselves and not taking people with us. And we’re not taking ownership and we’re not, you know, heading towards something and standing strong on it.

And I think what I’m hearing underneath all of that is there’s a lack of authenticity. So people are willing to say what they think others should be hearing about them versus who they really are. So.

Yeah, and I guess just on the back end of that, all I’d say is there’s a safety, right? When we are not willing to stand up for that. And I get it because it does mean that in leadership, I think that we have to build a much stronger resilience. We have to be stronger as individuals and we have to collaborate and come together as a force, much more as a collective and really look at what

what our decisions are making across the globe.

Well, it’s interesting too, and this goes back to a story I remember hearing about you and Taki going to Necker Island and meeting with Sir Richard Branson. And I just really, I think of him as a leader and I think of him as somebody who will stand for what he believes in and that he will do the hard stuff. And I’d love to know about that experience and how that’s impacted you and your vision and maybe some of the ideas you’ve had.

And just two things, one was I’ve been to Necker Island twice, Taki has never been there. But I took Taki as my plus one. I really wanted Taki to meet Richard because for me, Richard has been a mentor both when I’ve been in the room with him, but also from afar because I do see him as a very, very strong leader, a leader who will be willing to stand in leadership.

in different ways and disrupt it in ways that are adding to the human race not taking away from. I, so for me that has been such a powerful thing. So I said, I’d really love you Taki to come along and we went to South Africa together to his, it’s the most beautiful spot in the world there. When I first met, so here’s the funny thing. I always wanted to meet Richard, but not because I thought he was this really amazing human that

was doing all these great things and I could learn from him. I wanted to learn from him in a way that I was like, well, he’s got a great impact. He’s doing amazing things in the world. How does he do all of that? That side of it. And I actually thought from social media side that he was this show off and this, like I had this whole perspective about him that honestly, the moment I met the guy, he is just the most amazing.

amazing human being. And if I ever get a moment to be at the table with Richard, I will always take that up because they’re just the conversations and I have never ever ever met a human that is more engaged in who I am and care about our conversation even when I don’t necessarily say it the best way or have the most intelligent

thing to say at that moment, but he still saw through that. And for me, that was a really powerful moment. The one thing though that I will never forget from Richard that I think is the greatest learning that I ever learned. And that was, I sat there and I said, Richard, you must have every opportunity under the sun to be able to take up a new company, a new idea.

a new concept or go and be a part of something. How do you know which ones to do? Because I was often getting told, Kerry Murray, you’ve to focus on the one thing, you’re doing too many things. And I was like, I hear you. I understand it in theory, but it never really sat with me. And it was this moment that Richard said, and he goes, Kerry Murray.

And I’ll never forget, didn’t flinch, he just said, Keri Marie. He said, I don’t go, what do I need to do? How, what would I need to? He goes, who in my world do I need to do that? Take on that one. Bring on that. Do you know how much that opens up what you can do, Gail? It is amazing. And I realized at that moment, I’m not thinking big enough. I can think way bigger.

I just need to make sure I’ve got the right people that are coming on that journey with me to do that bit, that bit, that bit. And that was life changing for me. And the one other thing that in the moment it meant the world to me. I remember I was walking through the bush and we were going up to where we were having a leadership gathering. And out of the bush, out of nowhere, Richard just jumped out.

He looked me in the eyes and he goes, you. And he punched me on the arm and he goes, you. Punched me again. He goes, are. And he just went.

Unbelievable. And I just went, And here I can tell you, I was not doing what I’m doing now. hadn’t even like any of the things that I was thinking weren’t even a part of my world at that moment. But it was like he saw me even in my what I felt like my worst time. And I was still so confused at where I was going and what I was doing. And I was like,

Okay, I can do this. He’s seen me and he’s amazing and he’s doing awesome things. So I must be okay and I must be, I must have something that I’m bringing. Let’s just get on with this.

Yeah, that’s a crazy story and I love that because he meets so many people and obviously there’s something that he saw or he would not have said that.

I because I can tell you it was literally at one of my messiest times, because I was trying to figure out how, all of a sudden I had this, not all of a sudden, I knew on my heart that I had a much bigger plan for where I wanted to bring impact in my world, but also build out the economic access that I had. And I was only playing at a very little spot, but I couldn’t see how those two things would work. So I was in a lot of chaos.

So when people would ask me what do I do, how do I do that, I was like, mm, you know, I was not very good at communicating at that point.

Interesting. Well, what this is also saying to me is that it’s really critically important for you to have a vision that you can even articulate. But more than that, I think we have an obligation as humans to really show up in whatever way we can and push ourselves beyond what we think we can do. Because it’s not about doing the easy things. It’s really about challenging.

our ability to contribute.

Yeah, exactly. the thing that is to have that during that vision that is beyond you, like I say, your GPS set to something, but it’s also to know what are those drivers? What are those things that are going to take you through the times that are hard or that you’re not going to get lost in amongst ego when it is being successful and is going amazing and you lose focus on building what you think about you rather than about

the bigger picture and I think sometimes in leadership both those things can happen if you’re not careful.

Hmm, no, that’s true. What does return on decision mean to you?

Yeah, this is funny because it’s gone right back to my, so when you’re talking about communicating, think when you’ve got, you play at a big level, so I get to play with global leadership a lot and looking at, you know, leaders of industries and movement leadership. So that when you talk at that level and you’re talking about big concepts, here’s what I know is true.

the things that you’re talking about at that level, we need to talk about it at the everyday level as well. And you remember how I said we need to take people on that journey. I was really good. When I once I figured out what I was doing and how I was doing, was very good at communicating that to leaders of leaders, if you like to say, know, like at UN level, at, you know, private. I mean, one of the things I went to in Necker Island was

closed doors with private, know, leaders of nations, in other words, you know, presidents and things like that. And so I’ve, I felt very comfortable having conversations with that. What I realized was when I wanted to, and this I say wanted to, because it took me a while, by the way, to get to this point. But when I got to that stage where I was willing to go, I can’t just be that secret source.

that works with just leadership behind the doors, I actually have something I want to bring to the wider environment and the wider landscape. And I had to go back to the drawing board and go, what is it that the everyday human can relate to in my world so that you could come in the doorway? And I realized it’s around decisions. It’s return on decisions. That was literally where I started right at the beginning. And that is when we look at our decisions,

And we go, is this adding? Is this taking away from? Is so adding or subtracting? Is this moving us towards? Is this moving us away from? And if we actually had measurable ways in which we looked at the decisions that we made, then we’d make every decision count. And I realized that’s such an important concept and foundational to leadership because I do think

If you are gonna take ownership, you really need to know what decisions you’re taking ownership of and why, and what is the return on that decision? Is it moving, if you think about the GPS, is it moving us towards that GPS? Is it moving us away from? And so I became obsessed with figuring out the patterns around decisions. And there’s a lot of things, if you think about it, if you think of ROI, which is return on investment,

That’s around numbers, it’s around things that we really measure. What do we do? We prioritize when we actually know what we’re investing in. And that’s what I want to do is really get leadership to think about what are the decisions you’re making. if you are prior, you know, if you realize that this is getting the return that you’re wanting, helping to build out what you need to for your community, your people.

Would you do more of that? And if so, would you then prioritize it? And particularly when it comes to, think about the physical, Where we know that when we’re healthy and our body is ticking over and optimized at the highest level, our productivity goes up much higher. Guess what? When our productivity goes up higher, what happens to our bottom line? It goes up higher too, right? What we’re able to do, how we interact with relationships, connect with humans.

build up. So there’s a massive effect on that, but we’re not necessarily tracking that and realizing what that is. And I, I know that if we prioritize things like that as well, and we track that, then we’re going to make sure that when we’re looking after our teams, that we’re making sure our teams are healthy. And that so the cumin capital in which we is an asset in our, in anything that we build out, that we’re looking at that, where, where

making sure we’re treating it right and we’re doing the best to make sure we’re getting the best results from it. So that’s what return on decision is, looking at literally measurable ways in which we are getting returns on our decisions.

And our decisions can be very small too. And it can be as simple as I’m going to scroll on LinkedIn or I’m going to scroll on Instagram versus taking that time to think about how to do something that is going to move the needle in our business. So we get the opportunity throughout the day, 24 hours a day to make decisions. And if we don’t choose the right ones to make, then all of a sudden we’re giving up

to other people.

Correct, and I teach the decision, return on decision pathway. And in that I talk about what I call a drainer, a strainer, and a no-brainer. And the drainer, we get rid of all of those decisions and we don’t do them anymore. A no-brainer, we do more of those, we increase those, we change things into those, we want no-brainers, right?

And then the strainer, like anything, if we go back to the exercise, if we’re doing a muscle, when we don’t work a muscle, it dies, it atrophies, you no longer have the use there. We need to keep working that muscle, and so the strainer is either you’re working it towards a drainer so that you wanna get rid of it, or you’re moving it towards becoming a no-brainer. And I just find that’s a great way in which people have…

containers they can move their decisions through and it’s really helpful.

I love that. You made a statement that everything changes when you start asking better questions and that it opens the doors to ongoing growth. So tell us more about that.

Yeah, I think one of the things that we’ve heard when the world has sort of gone, we’ve got to change who we have at the table, what that table needs to look like, how we have those conversations at the table. I think one of the things that we know and we create these awareness, but we get the same results at those tables. We get the same outcomes, the same things are happening in culture. And in fact, what I’m seeing a lot across leadership right now, instead of narrowing the gap,

between problem and solution, I’m actually seeing it widening right now because those conversations we’re afraid of, like I said, people being canceled, we’re afraid of, you know, we have to, there’s an etiquette of what you say, what you don’t say, how you say this, how you show up. One of the reasons I am, I’m quite disruptive in the way that I look in the way that I, is because I feel very comfortable in the way I look.

And I don’t think we have to look a certain way to fit in. In fact, I think that we have to look the way that we were meant to look and we have to feel comfortable at that table. That doesn’t mean that we agree at the table. It doesn’t mean that we have to look the same at the table. And it doesn’t mean that your, your truths that you bring are going to be the same as my truth at that time. But I do think.

that we have to learn how to agree on something to move that dial forward, to narrow that gap in some way. And the only way we can do that is if we’re asking different questions and more effective questions and deeper ones. I’m many have called me neuro, neurodivergent and, you know, and I have come around to

being more comfortable with that and agreeing with them on many cases on this. But the reason being is, being neuro is that I do not do surface conversations very well. I’m very awkward at surface conversations. You mentioned my husband, Taki. He is great at doing those and that’s why I love it because he can do all of those. And we have this joke that he makes the friends, I keep the friends. And the reason being is that I

I love humans, but I’m, I really don’t know how to add to a conversation if all you’re going to talk about is the weather or very basic surface conversations. And so I learned very, very quickly that if I was going to connect with another human, I needed to learn how to ask a deeper question that we can go to that conversation and connect on and go deeper into that. so questions became my connection point.

to another human to actually have a conversation. Otherwise, you know, for a long time in my life, people thought I was very quiet. People thought I was not very smart. People thought that I didn’t have much to say. And you’re right, I didn’t. On surface conversation, I didn’t have anything to add to talking about another funnel. I mean, I can talk about funnels till you’re coming out of, you know, whatever. I mean, I can literally talk the talk.

because I’ve been in that world, I know it so much, but there’s many others that can do that. So why use that energy to do that? I would rather stay quiet. And when we’ve got the better conversation, I’m open, let’s have it. And you can’t shut me up. So the reason I realized that I had to ask better questions was because if I wanted to connect with humans and I wanted to get the conversation changing, then I needed to be able to do that.

and I’ve become very, very good at it now. But I really think it’s such a skill that many don’t have or are frightened to use because there is often in spaces right times to ask a question or not. And I don’t have a filter in that way, so I’m not afraid to ask a question.

I love that. So how did you figure out how to ask better questions?

Well, I became obsessed with patterns, funny enough. yeah, as the only time that I remember being like curious in science as a young girl was when my teacher said, we have all these brain cells in our head, but we only use a very small amount. And I just pondered on that. And then I put my hand up and I said, sir, does that mean all the rest of your brain cells are dead? And he just laughed and he said, no.

He goes, just means that we’re only accessing a very small amount. And I just became obsessed with that concept. And I went, what if, what if we could access all those other brain cells if something isn’t working? So I thought that I wasn’t working because I was taught I was dumb. I would never amount to anything that, you know, I was different to everyone else. So that meant that I needed to fit into that. So I was like, what if I could access

other brain cells in my head to rewire pathways in me that were broken, right? And, or that were my weaknesses to get different results. And then I just became obsessed with humans going, why are they getting those results? What are they doing? How are they doing that? What is that? What decisions are they making to get that as their results? And I connected the pathways. And so that’s, that’s what

All my work is around, and particularly my fascination with exercising the muscle human intelligence. It’s all around looking at HI, which is human intelligence. And the easy way to say that is my thinking is we as humans are all born with smartness. We don’t all know how to use it, and we don’t all use it.

But I do believe that we can become smarter humans and make smarter decisions which are more effective to the results we want, right? And so that’s where patterns became such a fascination because when you can recognize patterns, you can then connect those with the pathways to the actual results. And most people think in short term, but I’m one of those random humans that think on both sides of her brain.

So I’m very visionary, creative, designer, that sort of side of me. And so I can think very, very big, dream, innovate, and then I’m very analytical, data-driven, strategic. And so I can connect from the everyday going, hey, this is how we do it, and that’s where we go. So that’s fun for me. The more complex the problem, the more fun it is for me, because it’s got all these different variables, and it’s like,

How do we make this all work as an ecosystem? And that to me is a joy. I know it’s not everyone’s joy, but it’s mine.

I get that completely. I’ve got that dual dominant brain too. And so for me, I feel like it makes it harder to really think it through all the way because you have to look at the sides, you have to look at the right brain and the left brain and figure out how to mesh the best decision out of using both of those factors.

So, even in the way that you communicate, right? Like there are people that, so if you’re communicating, I always, and this is why I created the saying in my world, the everyday human was there’s the, there’s the, for me, the global like legacy sort of leadership level that you talk to. And then there’s the everyday human or everyday leader that is going to be different to how we communicate.

what that needs to look like or how much you give to that person versus the one that plays at a much bigger level that can can deal at a much more complex. And it’s not that one’s more smarter than the other. It’s just we have to understand just as if someone looks different, sounds different at your table. We have to understand that it’s it’s you don’t know what you don’t know. But.

how do we get them to know something that might be a little different and then take ownership of that? And that can be different if you’re playing at a bigger level of what that needs to look like versus the everyday human. And I think that is the hardest when you do think from both sides of your brain or think in a really different way is how do you now bring that smartness out to the world that others can share and learn the learnings that you have?

because what you have is amazing, now how do you share that in a bigger, better way? And I think that’s not always been an easy thing. It hasn’t for me, but I see it a lot, especially with those that are pioneers, those that play at a much bigger level.

Yeah, it definitely makes me think about impact and about how important all of this thinking and the questions are to make an impact. And also that you’ve got to have a voice about it. You can’t just have that quiet thought. You need to share it.

I sometimes I think people think you should have that quiet thought. I get told that. go, sometimes I say something and I go, you mean that was when I was meant to have that inside voice, not outside?

Right, I get that. So how do you define the difference between management and leadership?

Yeah, that’s a great question. I do bring it up sometimes in my work because I do see a lot of people that say they’re great leaders or in leadership, but they are managing others. And I think there’s a lot of management at the moment where it’s dictatorship. We’re putting boundaries on people. We’re putting constructs. if you’re alive in this world, you’ll hear those conversations everywhere in leadership right now. it’s where…

We’re working within a broken construct. We’re working within a, know, people are just trying to make me do this and they’re not listening to me and they’re not doing it. The reason being is that that is the old way. Those are the old principles. The old principles in leadership were very much that we do it step by step. We do it by principles. It’s very lateral and linear.

and static, right? Like that’s how we built everything. So if you’re a construct, if you’re within a leadership and a team, we tend to go, these are the systems, these are how we’re doing it, and we manage people. What that misses, and I think this is the difference between leadership and management, is leadership recognizes that there’s times we need to mentor. Just like Richard, I feel like, is a mentor from afar, right? Is that we learn

what are his truths, what he’s found works, why he’s found it working. And we put that into us and going, what do I need to take from that? What do I need to go? That was, that’s great for him. But in what I’m doing, this is how I do that. So we learn from a great leader. And the other side is that we, as leadership, we don’t give.

the static, the old, we give lenses, we give filters. What I mean by that is we should be giving lenses in which you start asking questions. You have different conversations. You tell me, I put you in a position because Gail, I believe that you have the value to add in that position. I’m not there to tell you to babysit you, to manage you. I’m there to help you shine the best way that you can and add your value so you do your work.

really well and I am a believer that you should be having all these lights just shining brighter, right? Like if you can shine that light, if you can make them be able to shine their light so that they can be brighter and we’re shining all these lights, then together we’re gonna be a greater force, right? The problem in management is that we’re putting those lights out. We’re saying, no, I’m the only one that knows how to do this. You need to work with my system, my thing.

I only know what I know, so I’ve created out of what I know is truth at that moment. Sure, it might work, but you’re the one that’s overseeing that. You’re the one in that area. You may see something I don’t. So I need to listen if you think that you want to change that. So I think we have to know what that cost is to why we’re making decisions, and I always believe there’s a value to decisions. In other words,

If you’re coming to me and you want to show me what this is, you’ve got to show me the value of why we need to change this and what it needs to look like. If you’re managing that person, you’re going to say, no, you’ve got to do it my way. That’s the only way. And I have been in that leadership. I continue to see flavors of that through my work, even to this day. And I love leadership where it’s like, okay, I love what you were just saying there.

and what you’re bringing there, if we just do this little tweak with it, I think we can move that towards that. I love that. I’m always saying, don’t just bring me the problem, bring me three opportunities we can change that. And I think that’s the difference between a manager and a leader.

That’s so good. So what does it take to be a great leader?

What does it take? I think that it takes having the right lenses and filters in which you make decisions. And one of the real fundamentals to anyone, right, whether you’re in leadership or not, to be honest, is that I think to think of yourself as building out, whether you’re building out a business, company, an organization, we’re building out ecosystems. We are a part of an ecosystem. We are an ecosystem.

how we flow in that will have either add to it or take away from it. just a really simple way to think about it is that we, as in leadership, we have to look after us as a leader, right? So as an individual, and again, what is that GPS you’re setting? Are you setting something up that you love doing? Is that what you’re really meant to be doing in life? Are you creating something that you’re proud of, that you love?

every day of your life, sowing into, serving others, and building that out and bringing change. And then the other side of it is, knowing what you’re willing to do within that leadership, so that’s you as an individual, then how does that affect the collective, your sphere of influence, your community, your customers, your clients, whatever that is, right? The collective. And then this is the important thing that most people forget.

Sometimes we just get locked in and looking at us as an individual and leadership and I think that’s a problem. And I think then if all we do is look at the collective, what are we building? Are we an influencer? Are we severe of influence? What is that? How are we using our platform? Great. Do it good. Do it well. But I think the third thing is that often gets missed is do you realize that we all make up the global landscape?

So if you think about that, every decision I make, you make, everyone else makes is making up the global landscape. So how does us as an ecosystem, an individual, us as an ecosystem as the collective and us as the ecosystem as the global, how does that all flow? And I think if we actually realize that every decision we make has an impact on the globe, then I think we would look at our decisions a lot more.

and think about how we’re using our platforms a lot more. And I think that that is so important as a leader.

That’s very interesting thought. How do you go about making great decisions?

I think about it, so when I talk about the measurable side of it, when we go back to return on decision, I look at return on decision, there’s four areas I look at, And it’s like, what drives speed? In other words, how fast can you make these decisions? How fast do you wanna make these decisions? Anything to do with that side of it, right? Hence, decision velocity global. I’ve got this saying that success comes when you make the right decisions fast. And…

One, you gotta know what those decisions are. You gotta know how to make those decisions. you, for me, because I wanna play at a big level, I wanna speed dial that up and do it as fast as possible so I can make more decisions, right? So driving, what drives speed? What curates capacity? How much capacity do you have? What does the capacity look like with your team, your company, your business, your leadership, your community, your clients? Like, what is the capacity of your environment?

your people. That is such an important thing to understand and a measure in which I look at when we’re looking at return on decision. And the third one is designs, energy, efficiency and effectiveness. We have to think, and again, this is, I love using the analogy of fitness and health because of my own journey of that. I’ve always been fascinated with health and fitness.

And when I ended up in their wheelchair 16 and a half years ago and still having to work with the glitches in my body now, I mean, I’m very strong and healthy and doing really well, but it’s a continuous journey, right? And one of the things that is really important in, and I think that we have to think about when we’re making decisions is what is our energy? What’s the energy we’re going to put into this decision?

You know, sometimes people go, you should really fight for that. And I’m like, you know what? I don’t want to waste my energy on that decision. If I’d rather lose to this decision right now, then put my because I am way better off and going to get more output by focusing in on that decision over there than being right on this decision. And so I will move away from that. So I think there’s a lot to be said about looking at the energy.

of what that decision’s doing for us, taking from us, creating, you know, that side of it. And the last one, and really important for any leader, you know, anyone in leadership is looking at time. Are we optimizing time? Are we using our time effectively? What does that look like for time? What if I just block this amount of time? Will this move us towards that? That also helps us to make sure that our capacity.

You know, I know there’s this big thing always about, we can’t have balance. I believe there is balance. If we are talking ecosystem and we think about it, if us as an individual, if we’re not physically well, there is something wrong in our ecosystem. If something’s going on in our personal, there’s something that’s going to be annoying us. We are not going to show up the best at business. We are an ecosystem. There are different levels.

in which we need to have that balance out depending what your goals are, where your GPS is set, what that needs to look like for you, your pathways forward, but there is a balance and you need to know what those are and that’s why we need to know what decisions we’re making so that we can have a measurable return on that.

Hmm. So good. Let’s talk a little bit about feedback because as a leader, we have to give feedback and what are some things that we should be doing? What should we not be doing in giving feedback to help people grow?

Yeah, that’s a funny question, feedback, because sometimes feedback comes back. And I know one particular person that when you give feedback, they take it so personally. so I always, so the reason I say this is because I think part of what we’re communicating as we’re moving forward is that things have had, words have had power that people

take on as their insights, as their truths. And so even feedback in that way is an interesting thing. I love feedback. I love being told what I’m not good at. I love getting told what I’m really good at. So I do more of that. I love getting told. For me, it’s not because of me personally, but because when you get feedback, there’s a gap in which if it’s not working,

Now I know what we can work on now I know where I need to find a strategy now I know where I need to get better or find someone else who is better at that to be able to do that and I think feedback is and it’s funny because then I’ve studied music and Of course because like if you know my background, it’s so random There’s so many things probably if you say have you done that I’ve probably say yes but like

One of the things around production and learning sound and the board and the microphones and all that is feedback, right? If you get that feedback wrong, if you jam some cord in the wrong place, that is so noisy. is so… It is not pleasant to the ears. And I think there’s so much given. And we have to be careful how we communicate because…

just because you’re giving it in a loving, caring, really understanding way, while you feel like you are, and I often can feel like this, the person receiving it sees you as a scary person, as someone that’s not like, is in your face. And so they’re not gonna even think about receiving it in a loving, caring way, even though it is given with care.

And I remember this in such a way. remember for, I was a youth speaker for many, many years. And I remember always just being motivational and inspirational and loving and caring. And I thought I was helping people by doing that. Because I thought that way people could receive the love, they could receive the help, they could receive what I was saying. Do you know what? I now even sometimes get told, you’re…

You know, they know me as the global advisor and strategist and lately they’ve been adding brutal global advisor and strategist to it. Now, many would be very insulted by that. I actually find it quite hilarious. But reality was I learned that there are so many people that are going to keep loving you going, hey, it’s OK. You’ve got this. This is great. And nothing ever changes. But I have helped.

as in I know how to get these patterns and pathways and disrupt them to give you some strategies that will actually get you to where you’ve got to choose to whether you want it or not. And I think that’s with feedback. We’ve got to choose whether we want it. But I also know that I am OK being a global advisor and strategist that is very direct. You know, like I am direct, but I care. I care so much. And what I realized was I was getting way more results.

by being the one that actually was helping you by not letting you do your excuses, limitations and buts, right? Like, but, but, but, yeah, we’ve all got them. But, you know, and I realized that I, that’s who I am and that’s what I needed to do and that’s how I need to show up. Now, that doesn’t mean that everyone’s gonna receive the feedback from someone like me in a way that maybe even I’m sending it to you.

and you’ve got to be okay with it. And I think that’s the difference in leadership right now with feedback is that we’ve got to understand how it’s given. We’ve got to understand that everyone is going to receive things differently. And I always say to people, when you make a decision, you’ve just got to know that you’re okay when you go to sleep at night, that you did what you were meant to do. You were who you were meant to be.

and today you made the best decisions and I can go to sleep. I always say I stand before God on judgment day, not humans. And so I am okay, very okay with who I am, what I’m doing and the decisions I’m making. And as long as I can keep knowing that at the end of the day that I’m gonna be able to stand before him on judgment day, then I’m okay, I’m good. And I know not everyone thinks like that and not everyone will make decisions based on that, but that’s how.

I play at such a big level.

Love that. Why is leadership so crucial to business success today?

because the, I don’t know about you, but I think, say the question again, sorry. I got lost with the gates of, if I stand before on judgment day and I was like, have I been, I went down a rabbit hole. Welcome to my brain. I went down a rabbit hole. Have I done what I was meant to do today? Sorry. Yeah, I always ask myself, like I always say to people, I don’t ask you a question.

I’m sorry. Now what now?

that I’m not willing to ask myself. And I’m the hardest critique on myself. And the reason being, because if I know that it works for me, then I’ll bring it out to the world. So that’s why I can stand so strong on what I believe, because I always talk about us as a human experiment. I am the human experiment. And that is how we learn. That’s how we grow. And that’s why I can be so certain about what I’m saying. Sorry. I know you asked me a question.

That’s okay. Let’s go back to it. So why is leadership so crucial to business success today?

Yeah, I think because, and this goes back to what I just said earlier, which was, you know, I think a lot around business is that we are so focused on the numbers, we’re so focused on building, and in many cases, your own empire rather than like a vision that is a collaborative one that is working. You know, it’s not fun for people just to build someone else’s something.

It is fun if you’re building something that together we’re making a solution that is helping and serving many others out there. And I think that is something that is really important in leadership and that as someone in leadership needs to get in their head, think leadership is really important that even in business that when you’re building out businesses, one of the problems with leadership, if we go back to what I said about earlier around individual collective global,

In leadership, if you’re not looking after you as a leader, if you’re not making sure you’re filling your bucket, learning more, think leadership needs to keep learning, keep growing, keep stretching, because you will only take your people to where you’re willing to go yourself. And we always have to be going to other levels to be able to take people with us to.

I also think, you know, we talk about a lot in business ADHD and I think we do have a problem because there’s so much noise, there’s so much stimulation that there is what I call business ADHD. And I don’t even know if it’s a human, maybe we’re changing brains so much that now all humans are getting ADHD and ADD and all that sort of thing as well. But we have so much noise going on, there’s so much going on.

And you as a leader have to learn how to regulate you as a human, but also those that are in your sphere of influence, so your team. And that’s why I’m so, I’m tied on things like capitalization. So what are you doing with your money? How are you using your money? But also your human assets. What are you doing human capital wise?

Are you looking after your people? What does that look like? What is the culture you’re building out? What is happening in their world? You’re going in, you know, you’re giving them a hard time for them not achieving something. But let’s, let’s actually go and have a conversation and see what’s going on at home. Maybe something’s happening that we had no idea about and they’re really struggling just to turn up and they’ve been amazing and showing up. And maybe we need to give them a little more support, you know? I think in leadership, that is one of the things that is so important right now.

And that is why if we don’t look at leadership and those that are in leadership, and it’s funny because I mean, I know it firsthand. I have people in my world that call themselves not leaders, yet they run things. And I’m sorry, but I believe anyone is in leadership if they’ve got anyone following them. If there’s someone following you, you’re a leader, you’re in leadership. And here’s the…

Here’s why I know they don’t take responsibility of being a leader is if I don’t take responsibility of leadership, then I don’t have to take ownership of the decisions I make as a leader. And so that is why I think that in business, leadership has to be looked at, has to be exercised as a muscle. And we need to really look at our decisions being made there.

Excellent. Well, I always like to end these with three takeaways. And you had so many big nuggets today. Let’s see if we can get it down to three.

Which one? can get it down three. I think there’s three major ones and I always talk about it. Remember how I said, and sometimes it’s going back to what I’ve already said anyway, you know, the old approach was linear lateral, the principles, the steps. It was done in a very, you know, the proven model. I believe that one of the number one thing is that we need to have new approaches. We will not see the patterns and leadership change.

if we don’t make different patterns and wire to different pathways. So I do believe that there is a need, a non-negotiable is that we need new approaches to how we do leadership so that we change those patterns. The other one that I feel so strongly about as a non-negotiable is

we need in leadership to know how to exercise the muscle of human intelligence. Again, human intelligence, smarter humans making smarter decisions. If we can build things like human intelligence, HI ecosystems and what we’re doing and how we’re doing that and we learn to exercise that muscle, doing it more and more, by the way, we do that by tracking what our decisions are doing, is this working? Do we do more of this? Do we do less of that?

That is the same thing, right? We’re exercising the muscle. We do need to learn how to exercise the muscle of human intelligence more and we will get more peak performance out of our people, our results at the table, our conversations will change, the way that we’re building out our capitalization and what we’re doing, we’re gonna increase economic access and at the same time, not one or the other, we’re gonna accelerate culture impact at the same time.

And the other side of that is that our truths, I talk about insights, our truths, we are gonna know what our truths are, what we’re standing on, and we’re gonna know how that changes and how we can have certainty with that if we are exercising the muscle human intelligence. So that’s the other one. And the third one, and it just wraps up everything that I’ve been saying, is that we do have to,

really look at as a non-negotiable, a measurable return on our decision. I don’t know, we can’t change patterns if we don’t know what that pattern is. We can’t change numbers if we don’t know what our numbers are. We can’t change conversations if we are not having different conversations and knowing what we’re getting from those conversations. So for me, those are the three things, new approach, knowing how to exercise the muscle of human intelligence and getting a measurable return on decision.

Love it. Thank you so much for your time and it was so kind of you to be on the line today. I know you’re in Sydney, aren’t you? Okay, great. And what time is it there?

I am in Sydney right now, yes.

It’s actually like it’s it’s much later than normal when I’m having overseas conversations. So it’s like nine o’clock now. But I have been sick in bed for the last seven days. So I did I did get out of there to come here. And it’s been such a such a pleasure. And I always love being able to have more conversations. think the only way we’re ever going to change patterns at the table is if we’re willing to sit down, have a conversation.

Ask better questions. Your questions today, I really appreciate. And I don’t just say that, I literally mean it because when you ask great questions, we can have a much deeper conversation. And I hope I’ve been able to add some value to you and those that listen to this.

thank you so much. It’s wonderful.