Will we still write code? :: Javier Durá at EngageU의 전체 녹취록

have a conversation in Cloud Code too. 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:23.120 Look at all your scripts, add documentation to your scripts, look at your layouts, rename them, organize them, sort them, do all the coding and scripting that you want, um, create calculations, create layouts, modify layouts, apply themes and styles, uh secure everything, security. 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:31.680 It's it completely brings FileMaker up to the level of full agentic development that we can enjoy, for example, in doing JavaScript websites or something like that. 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:35.919 It's a game-changing, a game-changing uh thing for the FileMaker developer. 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:42.159 And it has the wow effect when you start working with this product. 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.000 And yeah, one of the And also immediately useful. 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.520 I don't know if you've been putting it into practice for things, but I just immediately started using it in my workflow daily. 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:59.120 Especially working with layout, which is a lot of work behind any new layout you you should prepare. 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:13.919 And you can do, you can, for example, you take a CSS file from your website and you say to Cloud Code, okay, prepare a new theme using this file, this CSS file, and boom, it's done. 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:19.520 You only need to make a couple of fixes or yeah, and and that's it. 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.599 So uh it changes the way we will work with FileMaker. 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:31.120 We will spend more time thinking about how we want the things done, but we will not code anymore. 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:32.800 I I won't do this, of course. 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:39.280 I yeah, I think we will, but I mean, as FileMaker developers, when it writes script code, we'll be able to look at it, understand it, go, why did it do it that way? 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:41.919 And then we can say, Yeah, my standard is this. 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:44.960 When I do code, I always use transactions or I don't or whatever. 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.599 And then it will follow those rules the way we work. 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:55.360 Yeah, one of the things that's important is that you should tell AI, in this case, uh cloud code, how do you want the things done? 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:55.919 Yep. 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:05.280 I mean, you have to work it at the markdown file to say, I want my fields called like this, my layouts, my stables. 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:12.000 And if you do this and you work in your prompt, the results are simply amazing. 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.039 Yep, agreed. 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:13.599 Amazing. 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:19.680 Yeah, and it can take us a solution that has different standards and apply the same to all of them. 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:20.240 Yes. 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.199 You which you would do carefully, but um it can do that. 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:36.720 And even for working with all files, those files that come from FileMaker 11 or so, um, or maybe new files that from our customers you have no idea. 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:46.000 You can just say, hey, cloud, make an analysis or get all the tables, or tell me what is this solution about. 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:46.639 Right. 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.800 And it can work for you and do an amazing job. 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:58.319 There's there's to be fair, there's some other tools you can get that are free on GitHub published by different people that go way beyond what you can do. 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:08.160 But it goes quite a ways to be able to do the analysis and understanding of your database, um, and uh and to be able to make those changes and data changes. 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:18.399 So you can say, you know, find these, find all the records that have, you know, um uh such and such date field, and we're gonna push that date back 15 days. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:24.480 So modify all of those to 15 days plus whatever they are, which you could do by a calculation, but then you could make it smart. 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.959 You could say, if this if this is true or that is true, then do this thing. 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:35.279 And then just entirely by prompt, and it will directly uh read and write data in the file, which is very powerful. 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.839 Yeah, and apart from that, we should talk about user interface. 00:05:40.160 --> 00:06:00.079 I mean working with uh all the experience that they have in web coding for using everything inside a web viewer that you say, hey, this is my tables, make all the user interface and change this and change that, and it's done. 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:00.560 Yep. 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:01.120 Wow. 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:07.600 I I introduced three new tools that are free and they run in a web viewer and FileMaker. 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:17.600 Um, and um there's one of them that's uh uh called Pythia Reports, it's a report tool, ask your data so you can have a conversation with your data. 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:25.839 FileMaker is gonna be having something like this, but I think what I have is considerably more powerful because you have access to the source code. 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.959 So anything that you want it to do, you can just uh have it do that. 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:43.120 And because we're gonna have the agentic tool in FileMaker, you'll be able to have a prompt conversation that changes the code of the Pythia and also a FileMaker so that they can work together in different ways. 00:06:43.199 --> 00:07:03.040 Um, because there's just things you can't do with AI inside FileMaker, like have a Python uh script run a certain thing, or go get data from outside that you don't want to live inside FileMaker, um, or have uh script scheduling type of things that go to different APIs that you don't want to install as server-side scripts on FileMaker. 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:04.560 So there's many, many

things like that. 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:16.480 That's do you think we are now ready to offer a brand new customer a solution that all the interface is inside a web viewer, or maybe it's too early? 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:18.800 I think, well, let's see. 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:20.800 I think you we can absolutely do that. 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:34.240 There's some difficulties with it, like you and I know, because it's like committing records and some other things that uh doing it with a web viewer where you're not directly like in WebDirect, for example, you you're getting advantage of WebDirect for all of the record locking and all the other features, which is great. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:43.759 When you uh take that a step back to doing all your layout work entirely in a web viewer, and now you're committing all your records with different steps, right? 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:47.360 You're using OData, uh data API to read and write the data. 00:07:47.519 --> 00:08:00.240 So I think what we might be ready for is having a lot of layouts that are entirely web viewer for reading the data and organizing it and getting the colors and everything because it's much more powerful in a web viewer. 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:06.240 And then when a user clicks an action, it brings up a file maker card window or something like that. 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:10.800 Yeah, and then we get to that we get all of the advantages that you get in a file maker card window. 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:13.519 And it looks so natural that the user doesn't know. 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:17.839 It also turns out that that's really easy to do that level of development. 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:33.440 Yeah, especially because uh once you have the HTML of the Webviewer, you can use any uh AI to make little changes or to improve different calls to any FileMaker scripts. 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:40.320 And you already have those Web viewers, or I'm sorry, the card windows, and you already have all the scripts and you already have all the automation, everything's there working. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.480 So you're just kind of putting something different behind it. 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:48.720 It's weird nowadays when you see a regular layout, regular FileMaker layout, and you say, hmm. 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:49.759 It looks a little old. 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:51.759 It looks a little bit old. 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:52.000 Yeah. 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:53.440 But um it works. 00:08:53.679 --> 00:09:12.320 It works, it works, but everything is happening so fast, yeah, and we have to be there to especially because uh we want to share all this AI knowledge to our regular customers because most of them are are asking for AI. 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:13.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.000 And some of sometimes they don't know what they want, the SAA. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:17.039 Frequently they don't. 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:18.399 But let me give you another example. 00:09:18.480

--> 00:09:19.759 I'll pitch one of my other tools. 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.320 It doesn't seem like I'm selling it because it's free. 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.799 Um, so a long time ago I wrote FM search results and I've kept that up with a bunch of versions. 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.320 Well, the latest version of it is just AI powered. 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:36.879 Uh it actually doesn't require any AI to use, though, um, because there's a bunch of JavaScript code. 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:49.519 So what it does is it synchronizes all your data from FileMaker to a really, really fast SQL database that runs next to FileMaker server on a little dedicated, uh very inexpensive to run box and easy to maintain. 00:09:49.600 --> 00:10:00.720 Um then when the user does a search, they go into a web viewer, and as they type characters, it shows records vastly faster, hundreds of times faster than FileMaker can do. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:08.960 And then also can do all kinds of other sorts and things like that that are not that are kind of not possible in FileMaker, even with semantic search. 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:16.000 And then when the user says, Oh, okay, well, this is the result they find through whatever misspellings, they click on the record and now now they're back into FileMaker. 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.759 So that's a free thing implementable in a very small amount of time. 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:27.279 And then you could put something like that and then say, hey, you now you have AI in your solution, um, with no kind of risk or downside. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:28.480 Uh, I think. 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:32.320 There are a lot of interesting tools around about AI. 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:38.720 You have released a lot of them with uh any uh with several different Greek names. 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:39.200 Yes. 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.720 And uh and it's great. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:45.279 And it's just that people like you offer this stuff free for the community. 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:47.440 Yeah, you gotta name it's something. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.080 You call it FM Search, it's boring. 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:51.360 So I call it Mythos. 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:55.519 And if you look up the history of that, it's like finding your way through the thread to the thing. 00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:13.840 So yeah, we have to be there and uh especially offer useful uses of AI to our customers, something that uh makes sense because most of them probably they they don't need that special feature or something that is already available in FileMaker. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:14.960 Yeah, exactly. 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:25.039 And uh, you know, we one of the things that was clear to me from one of the recent sessions is many people think that there's a lot of FileMaker databases that just don't need AI. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:39.279 And I think that's true, but I think there's also some that uh that really could benefit from it, but we have to sort of be, as developers, we have to know a little bit more than our clients do about where AI can fit. 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:42.879 So we're not listening to them say, oh, I have this problem. 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:53.679 Instead, we know all these things that it can do and we understand their business, and we can think, oh, I have this tool that I know would solve that problem that you didn't even know was a problem. 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:54.639 I'm gonna put it in. 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.480 It happens to be AI-based, and now you have a new feature. 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:04.960 Um, I think, and you know, because we we have to be the ones who are creative uh and looking at our customer system. 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:06.159 That's what I feel pretty strongly. 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:14.240 Yeah, but we have to we have to be really aware of every new piece of information that we receive because things are moving really, really fast. 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:17.360 Yes, not every new thing, but I think we need some tools. 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:20.159 I need to be we need to add some tools to our tool belt. 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:21.039 Yeah. 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.360 And um how was the event? 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:24.720 It's amazing. 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.399 Yeah, so we just wrapped the closing session a few minutes ago. 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.440 Um, yeah, some really, really great sessions. 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:37.360 Uh that you know it has all the feel of the good dev of DEF CON in past days. 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.120 A couple hundred people here. 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.360 Um and a really great organization. 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:42.879 Yeah, amazing organization. 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:44.960 Everything works like a charms. 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:49.519 Uh people were there in the sessions at the time. 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:53.200 So if it's time to finish the session, they just finished the session. 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:57.919 Things were on on time, pretty much, uh, starting and ending pretty much on time. 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:06.480 Um when you go up to your room, you come down to the lobby, and there's a bunch of filmmaker people, you connect and meet, have a drink, go to dinner. 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:10.399 Uh that that that's such an important part, you know, the community part. 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:11.200 Yeah. 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:22.320 And I guess that all the people from Claris that attended the events were taking notes about how to make an event mistakes, probably in in a couple of years if they do it again. 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:24.799 You and I got to interview the CEO. 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:26.559 Yes, yes. 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:27.519 Differently. 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.600 Uh so that was definitely exciting and valuable. 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:42.799 Yeah, but it's great to have uh uh the Claris people here because all of them are really open to to talk to them, to ask tricky questions

that probably they won't never answer. 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.240 Yes, true. 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:57.279 Yeah, but it it's great that they feel the proximity of community and that we can meet those people that we only see, we only watch on through meetings. 00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:57.759 Yeah. 00:13:57.919 --> 00:13:59.200 And this thing, yeah. 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.600 Yeah, I um I don't know. 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:09.440 I I did in the sessions I did, I asked some audience questions to try to gauge where the community is on AI. 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:15.919 Um, how much, you know, how many of them actually have anything implemented, what their feelings are. 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:24.639 Um one just one of like half of the people pretty much not thinking that their databases would even need AI in a year, some of their customers' databases. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:26.960 I didn't ask if it if any of them did. 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.919 Um but uh and some of that was definitely really positive. 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:40.960 Some of the responses from those questions, I'm trying to think of exactly which ones, but it was really good to get a pulse of where people are because you can't otherwise really do that. 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:42.000 Exactly. 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:49.279 Yeah, and if you do it live, you can talk to people and they can explain what they are thinking about. 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.320 They have different customers with some different needs. 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:57.600 Yeah, so it's it's a great place uh engaged you to do all these things. 00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.519 Yeah, I get the take from Clarice. 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:09.120 Yeah, it seems like most people uh have positive uh views of AI, where like in the US, 80% of people have negative views of AI. 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:09.600 Really? 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:11.679 So that doesn't seem the case in the FileMaker community. 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:12.799 What is it like in Spain? 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:13.759 Uh I don't know. 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:14.399 I don't know. 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:18.159 I mean, I think there's a big hype about AI. 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:19.840 Overhyped? 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.759 Yeah, it's overhyped because AI is all around. 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.000 Many people talk about AI without any knowledge. 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:28.799 Yeah. 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:36.559 They don't know what is an LLM, but I mean, but um you cannot ignore it. 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.200 Because it's it's changing everything. 00:15:39.600 --> 00:16:02.240 Yeah, it's like uh well for me, you know, just using it, not only using it in my own life to make things easier and better, um various different ways, many different ways, but also you know, delivering side project sites, like several different website things that I do, changing the way that I run in FileMaker, but most of my time is actually creating these tools for FileMaker users. 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.879 Yeah, like this uh search one and also an audit log one that I've released. 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:18.559 Um that's designed to be extremely easy to implement and then create logs that are stored outside of FileMaker and you know, very easy to and they are useful tools, which is very important. 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.639 Yeah, and then again, you know, so like customers are asking for AI. 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:30.879 If your system doesn't have an auto log, well put an AI log in, and then now you have a really cool AI solution that you can point at, you know. 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:35.519 So we are preparing an five-maker event next year. 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:36.080 Are you? 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.720 Yeah, in Madrid, 9 and 10 of April. 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:40.159 It's called Code Wave. 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.519 So uh Code Wave, April 9th and 10th, you said April 2027. 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:46.639 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:47.279 In Madrid. 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:48.960 In Madrid, Spain. 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:53.200 So um small amount of Spanish. 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:55.679 Hopefully, you you you will attend. 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.039 I have a plan on it. 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.799 Yeah, there will be a lot of content about AI, of course. 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.360 That will be in Spanish and English. 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:08.880 Yeah, most of the conference will be in Spanish, but English speakers are more than welcome. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:20.880 And I think that it will be in a really um interesting time because probably if ADT, the Agentic Development Tool for Claris, is available basically. 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:23.440 Yeah, that'll be fully LB 2027. 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:24.319 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.759 So um there will be sessions about it. 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:31.119 So yeah, you can miss it. 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:38.160 In the past, I've actually I'm sure it's gonna be easier then than it is now, but it's also quite easy now to just have a live translator as you talk. 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:38.480 Yeah. 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:43.519 It just translates in the text on supertitles uh from English to Spanish and vice versa. 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.599 Yeah, we we prepared this event because um it's in Spanish. 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.599 I think we there's no reason to make another English event in in Europe. 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:52.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:53.920 There's it makes sense. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:02.880 There's there's several in different countries that are in the local language, because several of the countries in Europe have a large enough Filmaker uh group that they can have a conference in that language. 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:05.279 And I think it's amazing and great that Spain has that. 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:06.799 Yeah, and close to the city. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.880 I mean, they they can take a train or many people live in Madrid. 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:11.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:14.160 Yeah. 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:14.960 Cool. 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:16.799 So it's been a pleasure having you here. 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:18.559 It's always great to talk to you, Javier.