Moon

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Hello everybody and welcome to a brand new episode of
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Second Take Cinema. I'm Jamie Evans, joined as always by
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Rory Jocelyn.
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Hello.
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And Benton Hodges.
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Hello.
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Did you buy that just for this?
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It lights up but you can't really tell in this light.
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Did you buy it just for this?
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No.
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Or did you already have it?
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I already had it.
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Right, okay. I'm going to say, because last time you
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bought a bunch of stuff just for this. And it's
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in the episode for like a minute.
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Yeah. Look, Jamie, another Earth.
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Don't carry him.
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And today we are talking about the 2009 sci-fi indie
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movie directed by Duncan Jones. He's the son of David Bowie.
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This is Moon.
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Thank you.
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Moon is a 2009 science fiction film directed by Duncan Jones,
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and it stars Sam Rockwell, Dominique Michaligo, Kea Scodelario, Benedict Wong,
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Matt Berry, Malcolm Stewart, and Kevin Spacey in a voice role.
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It was made for a budget of $ 5 million and
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grossed $ 9. 8 million at the box office, so actually it
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was a bit more.
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$ 5 million?
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It was a bit more than I thought it was,
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so I apologise earlier when I said it didn't make anything.
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I was actually incorrect. That was false information on my part.
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It was generally well received by critics on Rotten Tomatoes.
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It has a score of 90%, with the critical consensus
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reading boosted by Sam Rockwell's intense performance. Moon is a
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compelling work of science fiction and a promising debut from
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director Duncan Jones. Damon Weiss of The Times praised Jones'
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thoughtful direction and Rockwell's poignant performance, and wrote that though
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it uses impressive sci-fi trappings to tell its story, the
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fabulous models and moonscapes are recognisably retro, yet surprisingly real.
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This is a film about what it means and takes
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to be human.
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That was funny enough what I was going to bring
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up about the set design and stuff.
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I really liked it.
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It felt very NASA, but like 60s, 70s NASA sort.
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Of thing, isn't it?
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We'll talk about that in a bit, because there is
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actually a lot of references in the set design to
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other film genres. There's a reason for that, outside of
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the look.
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There's a little section here, Reception from the Science Community.
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I'm just going to read this real quick, because usually
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it's not good with sci-fi films, is it? Usually the
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science community are like, boo.
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Well, it should be a pretty good reception, because they've
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got them big satellite dishes.
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Moon was screened as part of a lecture series at
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NASA's Space Center in Houston at the request of a
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professor there. He'd been reading online that we'd done this
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film about helium-3 mining, and that's something that people at
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NASA are working on. We did a Q & A afterwards.
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They asked me why the base looked so sturdy, like
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a bunker, and not like the kind of stuff they're
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designing that they're going to transport with them. I said, well,
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in the future, I assume you won't want to continue
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carrying everything with you. You'll want to use the resources
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on the moon to build things. And a woman in
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the audience raised her hand and said, I'm actually working
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on something called Mooncrete. which is concrete that mixes lunar
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regolith and ice water from the moon's polar ice caps.
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In the 2013 October issue of the journal Trends in
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Cognitive Science, that sounds like a thrilling read, doesn't it?
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Academics ranked their top brain science movies of all time.
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Top brain science?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Is that the equivalent of elevated horror?
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No, it means the science of brains.
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Yeah, but this hasn't got brains in it.
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I don't know. The database called the Cognitive Science Movie
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Index ranks films for quality, relevance and accuracy in the
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field of cognitive science.
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So it's the elevated horror of sci-fi.
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On their top ten lists of brain science movies of
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all time, Moon appears at number five on the quality list,
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number nine on the accuracy list and number three on
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the relevance list. It also kind of technically has a sequel,
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but not really. that came out in 2018 called Mute.
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It's a Netflix exclusive.
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Sam Rockwell does do a cameo.
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Sam Rockwell has a little cameo in it. He didn't
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do very well. Basically doing a I'm Spartacus moment where
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all of his clones are seen in court arguing for
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the legal rights of clones. And they're all going, I'm
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Sam Bell.
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Which seems like a moot point seeing as they're all
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about to, they all die within like two, three years.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So, Moon. This is a film that I've actually wanted
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to see for a really long time. I remember seeing
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a trailer for it when I was at uni, which
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is forever ago now. And I don't know why I
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never did watch it. I've had it all this time,
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and Black Swan is a similar one for me. I've
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literally had it on DVD since it came out, but
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I've never watched it. And every time I see it
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on the shelf, I go, I need to watch that.
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And then I just never do.
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Yeah.
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Had you guys seen Moon before this?
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Yes.
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Do you remember when you first saw it, Rory?
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So I didn't see it at the cinema, but I
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saw it not long after. Actually getting Moon and re-watching
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Moon in the early 2010s is why I then ended
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up getting a load of other sci-fi films. One I've
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still not watched called Love, which apparently is not very
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good either. But I watched one that was very good,
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and that was Another Earth. And I was like, so
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it's not necessarily led me down the right path every
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time because hated another earth as people might have been
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able to tell from the episode um but yeah no
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i i love moon um i loved it back then
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and i was a bit worried about a rewatch for
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this because i was like will it be as good
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as i remember and yeah ticks every box for me
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still so we'll get into why but do.
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You remember when you first saw it ben.
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Uh i think just last year i got into a
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sort of i was just going through the catalog of
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prime and netflix and just watching everything they had just
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To sort of, yeah, see more films, up my little
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letterboxd count and all that. I saw Moon. I was
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enjoying sci-fi films at the time, and I thought I'd
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watch it.
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Yeah, and did you enjoy it?
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I remember enjoying it. I remember leaving it thinking, yeah,
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that was an interesting think piece. I had nothing bad
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to say about it. And then I just kind of
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completely purged it from my memory. I remember the twist
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being clones. I remember that he goes back to Earth
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at the end.
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That was about it.
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Genuinely, it just purged from my memory. And I rewatched
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it and kind of almost experienced it again. And again,
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I can't tell you what it is because I think
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it looks good. I think there's good performances. I think
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it's a good script. I think everything but just something
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about it. just doesn't stick with me and I watched
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something quite similar Project Hail Mary I watched that recently
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as well and that I could probably tell you beat
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for beat everything that happens in that film I thought
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it was absolutely incredible different budgets different story different sort
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of tone and everything but still the same sort of
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premise of like lone guy in space and it just
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I don't know it just stuck with me a lot
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more it was such a powerful and poignant piece and
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I just keep coming back to it over and over
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and over Whereas this one, I can't tell you anything
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wrong with it. I can't tell you what I'd do differently.
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But there's something about it that just....
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I completely agree, funnily enough. I feel like I probably
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waited too long to watch it. It's probably the reason
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why you shouldn't hold on to films for that long
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without watching them. I think I built up my expectations
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too high. So I only watched this yesterday.
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Okay.
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And yeah, exactly the same. There is nothing wrong with it.
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Everything's very good. The set's really good. Sam Rockwell's amazing.
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The performance is brilliant. Kevin Spacey is good. I won't
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say that anymore, but he is. I like the twist
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as well. Obviously, I think 2001 Space Odyssey is going
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to be maybe not fresh in people's minds, but it's
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certainly going to be a touchstone that people are kind
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of expecting the calm, talking, sort of eerie computer.
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They're sort of expecting... him to be the villain.
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I was going to say, I kept thinking that. I
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kept thinking, how 9000? And also, it's Kevin fucking Spacey,
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who even before we realised was a bad, bad man
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in real life.
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He played a lot of bad, bad men.
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Yeah, he played seven famously.
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Yeah, and you're expecting him to kind of, at some point,
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to be like, I can't let you do that, Sam,
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and shut everything. And it does, but it is for
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his own... protection and then he's like you're expecting him
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to be like oh why are there clones and he'd
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be like oh no there's no such thing and he
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just quite like blase just goes oh no there there's
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clones it's such like a it's because i.
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Don't think it was you kind of get this vibe
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from gertie that which is the name of the computer
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but you get the vibe from gertie that it's it
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is genuinely programmed to look after sam yeah but it
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doesn't really have the coding required to deal with more
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than one because it's never they they never considered that
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it would ever have to deal with more than one
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Sam at a time well.
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They have the protocol because you see the guys at
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the end turn up with guns so presumably the protocol
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has killed them.
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All but the protocol isn't with Gertie no so Gertie
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has told them that there's been an accident but at
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that point they haven't gone and got like new Sam
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hasn't gone and gotten the old Sam so as far
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as they're aware it's self contained Project Elijah is just
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going to come down and scorch earth it a little
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bit and they're going to bring out a new Sam
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and start again and then everything runs just fine it's
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new Sam fucking that up by breaking the regulations going
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and finding old Sam. That kind of scuppers it.
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It's very similar to Mickey 17.
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But Gertie isn't the one initiating a death. And you
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think he's part of it because he'd be like, well,
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of course you've got to come and scorch earth it.
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But genuinely, when he's asked questions about when they first,
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when we first have two Sams, either of the Sams
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asking Gertie going, who is that guy? So it's Sam.
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It just doesn't have an answer of, oh, it's another you.
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It's just, it's Sam. My job is to protect Sam.
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You expect it to suddenly become the antagonist and it
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never does, which I think is a nice twist. Even
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if it's only a twist because of our assumptions going
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in that we expect him to then become the villain.
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Whereas he never really does. There isn't really a quote-unquote
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villain except the corporation.
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Yeah, corporate greed is the villain, isn't it?
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Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's quite
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a faceless villain. I do think the clone degradation part
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is maybe why I don't connect with it.
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Because, you know, there's no long-lasting, even if they do
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make it back.
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Yeah, so it's like, oh yeah, it's a nice moment
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that they save each other and that they're going to
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get on the ship and he's going to go see
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his daughter. Which is also like, yeah, you've got two years, mate,
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and then you're going to degrade and there's nothing you
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can do about that. It kind of makes it harder
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to feel like it's a victory.
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Okay, that's interesting.
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And the daughter has got another father on Earth anyway.
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Clearly he's going to turn up and be like, I'm
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your daddy. And she's going to be like, no. But
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there is a victory.
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There's a victory in that you get that little bit
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where there's a little newscast at the end that's like, oh,
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and then the clones have now brought this sort of thing.
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00:12:31.470 --> 00:12:34.129
But I think that's what they then did in Nuke
249
00:12:34.190 --> 00:12:36.590
by the sounds of it. But I didn't need, I
250
00:12:36.610 --> 00:12:37.649
don't need a film of it.
251
00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:38.350
No.
252
00:12:38.370 --> 00:12:41.200
The bit at the end of Moon gives me that satisfaction.
253
00:12:41.289 --> 00:12:41.750
Yeah.
254
00:12:41.889 --> 00:12:43.899
But it's just hard to feel like it's a victory
255
00:12:43.940 --> 00:12:45.679
when you know that all of the clones are just
256
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:46.980
going to kind of melt.
257
00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:51.279
I'm, Oh, that's interesting.
258
00:12:51.340 --> 00:12:54.659
I think it's tragically, in a tragic sense, it's very
259
00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.120
tragic and it's like you feel really bad for the clones,
260
00:12:57.460 --> 00:12:59.720
but it's also hard to feel like it's a victory
261
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.860
knowing that all of the clones have less lifetime than
262
00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:04.419
a dog.
263
00:13:05.059 --> 00:13:07.120
But then I think that's kind of half the point,
264
00:13:07.179 --> 00:13:09.049
isn't it? It's because they're clones, they don't actually have
265
00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:13.389
any legal rights. The way I wrote it, and I'm.
266
00:13:13.309 --> 00:13:13.950
Not sure if.
267
00:13:15.149 --> 00:13:17.970
This may be overselling it or what, but basically, where
268
00:13:17.990 --> 00:13:24.139
did I put it? Essentially, the cold bleakness of the
269
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:29.919
film is that it's a sci-fi retelling of the human sacrifice.
270
00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.679
But in films, usually we don't follow the human sacrifice.
271
00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:38.789
We usually follow other characters witnessing someone being sacrificed. In
272
00:13:38.850 --> 00:13:40.250
this sense, Sam Bell.
273
00:13:40.289 --> 00:13:41.210
Except Wicker Man.
274
00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:44.769
Except Wicker Man. But in this sense, Sam Bell is
275
00:13:44.830 --> 00:13:47.769
the human sacrifice, or at least the clones are. And
276
00:13:47.809 --> 00:13:49.690
it's like, right, you get your time, we burn you,
277
00:13:49.710 --> 00:13:54.000
we replace you. At least the company, if not everyone
278
00:13:54.019 --> 00:13:57.840
else on Earth, is aware this is happening. The company
279
00:13:57.879 --> 00:13:58.899
has to know it's happening.
280
00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:00.759
Oh, the company doesn't. I don't think the Earth does.
281
00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:02.419
That's the point, is that at the end, the Earth
282
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:02.919
finds out.
283
00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:05.539
It's like, well, that's the... You know, the reason we
284
00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:10.720
give them short lifespans is because that's the acceptable cost of, essentially,
285
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.179
someone must suffer... so that we don't have to pay
286
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:16.879
out for someone to come and do this job.
287
00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:19.179
Is it cheap?
288
00:14:19.220 --> 00:14:22.100
This is the thing. Maybe it's not discussed enough. Is
289
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.559
it actually cheaper to maintain a hive of clones than
290
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:26.580
it would be to just employ.
291
00:14:28.169 --> 00:14:30.389
Employ five people but then you.
292
00:14:30.289 --> 00:14:32.690
Also have to keep flying to and from the moon
293
00:14:32.750 --> 00:14:33.309
as well.
294
00:14:33.110 --> 00:14:36.490
Yeah and bringing resources there and back yeah you just
295
00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:38.649
establish it and let it run for god knows how
296
00:14:38.669 --> 00:14:39.049
long if.
297
00:14:39.009 --> 00:14:41.379
You've got three years but they must be having food
298
00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:43.840
drops because he's eating things like baked beans and stuff
299
00:14:44.419 --> 00:14:44.940
so a.
300
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:47.580
Lot of the stuff in there is long lasting And
301
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:50.100
they can't send a team because they send the Eliza team.
302
00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:53.049
This has only been going for like 15 years at
303
00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:57.090
most because his daughter is 16, isn't she? And she's
304
00:14:57.129 --> 00:15:00.049
a baby when the first clone left.
305
00:15:00.149 --> 00:15:03.460
We actually do have dates given right towards the end
306
00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:05.720
when Gertie gives Sam access to the logs, yeah. And
307
00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:09.340
I wrote down those dates. The first log is from
308
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.799
the 12th of November, 2026. Yeah, I thought that was
309
00:15:12.860 --> 00:15:13.779
a funny coincidence.
310
00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:14.549
I was like, yay!
311
00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:17.360
But it does actually go back to prior to the
312
00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:20.240
film's date anyway, because there's one where it's 9th of
313
00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:24.000
October 2015, and then 6th of October 2007. Now, to
314
00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:28.009
be fair, it may not be this century, because the
315
00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:30.389
years are only given in the last two digits. So
316
00:15:30.409 --> 00:15:32.259
it could be that 2026 isn't 2026, because it's just 26.
317
00:15:32.250 --> 00:15:40.740
It could be 4226. But Yeah, you are right. Within
318
00:15:40.769 --> 00:15:43.279
the timescale of the fact that his daughter went from
319
00:15:43.340 --> 00:15:46.860
being just born to being 15, we've only got a
320
00:15:46.899 --> 00:15:48.059
certain amount of time.
321
00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:50.460
If they live three years, then we know that this
322
00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:52.860
would be either fifth or sixth.
323
00:15:52.899 --> 00:15:56.840
When they go down underneath, actually, the way I figured
324
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:01.460
it is almost all of the stored clones have a
325
00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.240
white light. but there's only a few on the far
326
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.919
right-hand side of the screen that have orange, which would
327
00:16:06.940 --> 00:16:10.250
suggest that those are the expended ones. The only thing
328
00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:12.570
that kind of screws that up is the one they
329
00:16:12.610 --> 00:16:15.370
look at is also an orange light. Right. And I'm like,
330
00:16:15.429 --> 00:16:17.870
I think that may have been a continuity error, because
331
00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:19.970
realistically it should have had a white light.
332
00:16:20.370 --> 00:16:23.210
Am I right in thinking that the film doesn't confirm
333
00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:26.830
what happened to the OG? Did he get sick and die? No,
334
00:16:27.210 --> 00:16:27.590
he's back home.
335
00:16:27.610 --> 00:16:28.070
He's back home.
336
00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:28.320
Is he?
337
00:16:29.009 --> 00:16:29.769
He's the CEO.
338
00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:34.049
When old Sam makes the call and contacts his daughter,
339
00:16:34.129 --> 00:16:36.480
and she's 15, at the end she goes, Dad, did
340
00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:38.299
we hear Sam's voice?
341
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.740
I heard a voice, but I couldn't tell it was
342
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.399
Sam Rockwell. I thought it was going to be that
343
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:47.490
Dominique McCallagher had moved on and banged someone else. No, no.
344
00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:51.690
Obviously the CEO gave them clones of himself, I guess.
345
00:16:52.809 --> 00:16:53.529
And let them believe.
346
00:16:53.549 --> 00:16:55.190
Because they said it's injected memories.
347
00:16:55.730 --> 00:16:57.629
So I wonder if real Sam ever even went to
348
00:16:57.669 --> 00:16:58.330
the moon at all.
349
00:16:58.450 --> 00:16:58.950
Possibly not.
350
00:16:58.970 --> 00:17:00.649
They might have just cloned him on Earth and sent
351
00:17:00.669 --> 00:17:01.129
the clones.
352
00:17:01.570 --> 00:17:03.690
Quite possible. Or just sent his DNA and did the
353
00:17:03.710 --> 00:17:04.410
cloning there and then.
354
00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:07.410
I do like that there's ambiguity in it. I do
355
00:17:07.450 --> 00:17:12.200
like that sort of ambiguity endings. But it definitely... There's
356
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.559
just something about it. And I can't tell you what
357
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:16.420
it was. But there is something about it that just
358
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:18.180
didn't stick with me.
359
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.029
I think for me... It's ironic because I've had the opposite.
360
00:17:21.109 --> 00:17:22.849
It's always stuck with me. That ending, I watched it
361
00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:25.730
yesterday for this and it made me cry again.
362
00:17:25.970 --> 00:17:26.230
Yeah.
363
00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:28.490
So it really hits me.
364
00:17:28.509 --> 00:17:32.670
I didn't not enjoy the film, but I get exactly
365
00:17:32.690 --> 00:17:34.990
the same thing, Ben, and where I finished it and
366
00:17:35.069 --> 00:17:37.950
I was like, yeah, it's okay. And I think partly
367
00:17:37.990 --> 00:17:44.539
for me it's because from the moment the second Sam
368
00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:49.579
turned up, my brain instantly went, okay, I know what's happening.
369
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:51.700
I know everything that's going to happen here. It's going
370
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.119
to turn out the corporations are cloning him because they
371
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:55.660
don't want to have to pay the money of sending
372
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.319
new people. It will turn out that they just kill
373
00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.140
them at the end of each life cycle.
374
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.980
I mean, all of that's obvious because when I first
375
00:18:04.029 --> 00:18:07.890
watched it, I wasn't surprised by the twist. And to
376
00:18:07.910 --> 00:18:10.589
be fair, the film doesn't really hide it because from
377
00:18:10.650 --> 00:18:12.750
one of the first conversations the two Sams have with
378
00:18:12.769 --> 00:18:14.329
each other, oh, you're a clone. No, I'm not a clone.
379
00:18:14.690 --> 00:18:17.650
You're the clone if anyone's a clone. So they don't really,
380
00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:19.150
it's not the whole thing of, you know, you get
381
00:18:19.170 --> 00:18:21.650
to the last ten minutes up, they're clones!
382
00:18:21.730 --> 00:18:24.190
They play with the idea that it's a hallucination, don't they?
383
00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:26.369
Because at the start he's hallucinating.
384
00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:26.230
A lot of people.
385
00:18:26.250 --> 00:18:29.269
He wants him to shake his hand and he won. Yeah,
386
00:18:29.470 --> 00:18:32.509
but I don't think that they hold that tension long enough.
387
00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:36.349
They kind of, once you've accepted that it's a clone
388
00:18:37.130 --> 00:18:39.869
and that it's probably one of many clones, you kind
389
00:18:39.910 --> 00:18:42.779
of know where the film's going. And after that point,
390
00:18:42.930 --> 00:18:45.980
it's just sort of watching it play out but because
391
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:51.140
there isn't really any sort of antagonist beyond just corporate
392
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:57.420
greed there isn't in my opinion it doesn't hold that tension.
393
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:01.049
Well technically the villain in it is Matt Berry in.
394
00:19:01.069 --> 00:19:03.769
A sense yeah he has like what one line I
395
00:19:03.789 --> 00:19:06.970
think he's got two lines maybe it's just that I
396
00:19:06.990 --> 00:19:11.690
was expecting that sort of I couldn't tell you what
397
00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:15.690
this kind of film what this film is genre-wise, because
398
00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:18.839
it's not really a thriller. It's not really a mystery.
399
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:20.640
It's not really a.
400
00:19:22.220 --> 00:19:22.799
Human.
401
00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:25.460
Maybe you could say it's a drama, like a human piece.
402
00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:28.710
It's a sci-fi drama, I'd say. Yeah, but even then,
403
00:19:28.730 --> 00:19:31.990
the science elements of it aren't really in the forefront.
404
00:19:32.130 --> 00:19:36.779
They're very much... This could be... The cloning, absolutely, but
405
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.059
the actual setting itself, this could be an arctic thing
406
00:19:40.099 --> 00:19:40.420
as well.
407
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.089
Yeah, it doesn't need to be on the moon. Yeah,
408
00:19:43.109 --> 00:19:44.170
you're right.
409
00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:47.130
It could be. There's nothing that puts it in a
410
00:19:47.170 --> 00:19:49.269
specific genre. I'm not saying that anything needs to be
411
00:19:49.309 --> 00:19:52.549
in a specific genre. but it doesn't feel thrillery enough
412
00:19:52.589 --> 00:19:54.970
to be a thriller because it doesn't feel.
413
00:19:54.670 --> 00:19:56.410
So i can i explain that a little bit actually
414
00:19:56.430 --> 00:19:58.410
because actually that you you make a very good point
415
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:05.319
and it is on purpose um so Duncan Jones made
416
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:07.960
a short film before this in 2002 called Whistle. That's
417
00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:11.599
all he'd made before he made this feature, which suggests
418
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:13.180
that he had a lot of connections because one of
419
00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:16.339
the other connections he made was Sam Rockwell because he'd
420
00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:19.299
been talking to Sam Rockwell for some time. Sam couldn't
421
00:20:19.420 --> 00:20:22.980
do something else with him. I think he had the
422
00:20:23.059 --> 00:20:24.940
idea for Mute, but Sam Rockwell was like, I don't
423
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:29.089
want to do that. So he went, So he asked
424
00:20:29.109 --> 00:20:32.210
Sam Rockwell, what sort of film would you like to do?
425
00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:35.539
So Sam Rockwell gave him a list and I've seen
426
00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:40.160
all three of these films. It says Rockwell's suggestions being leads,
427
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:42.069
the sort of character he wanted to do was like
428
00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:48.220
the leads of Outland, Silent Running and Aliens. With the
429
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.019
sets and the company, you get very much that Weyland-Yutani
430
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:53.079
vibe from Alien.
431
00:20:53.259 --> 00:20:55.779
We could have had Sam Rockwell running around in tighty-whities
432
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.589
fighting a monster.
433
00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.130
But airbrush out his pubes.
434
00:21:00.730 --> 00:21:04.009
It starts out like a horror. There is horror elements
435
00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:05.349
in the start, which is kind of another one of
436
00:21:05.369 --> 00:21:07.210
those genres that he doesn't quite commit to.
437
00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:09.670
Have either of you two seen... I'm guessing you've both
438
00:21:09.690 --> 00:21:12.769
seen Alien. I know you have. But have you either
439
00:21:12.809 --> 00:21:16.119
seen Outland or Silent Runnings? Right, so if you were
440
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:20.279
to watch all three, all three are Moon, if you
441
00:21:20.299 --> 00:21:24.339
were to combine them all. So Moon is, from watching
442
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.539
it this time, with that in mind, I was watching
443
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:28.960
it going, yeah, I know what all this is. So
444
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:34.940
Outland was originally a Western. It was written as a Western.
445
00:21:35.299 --> 00:21:39.660
It was made in 1981, 1982. Sean Connery in the lead.
446
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:42.079
And the idea was that he was a sheriff that
447
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:46.180
goes to a mining town... people start having freakouts seeing, like,
448
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:49.950
satanic or devilish or evil things. And he's trying to
449
00:21:49.970 --> 00:21:52.130
work out what the satanic thing is, and it turns
450
00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:54.410
out that, basically, they've been given a stimulant drug to
451
00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:57.470
help them mind more, and it makes their minds go nuts.
452
00:21:58.609 --> 00:22:02.160
So they just start seeing hallucinations, and he has to
453
00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:05.019
take down the guy who's dealing the drugs. Nobody wanted
454
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.839
to buy a Western in the early 80s.
455
00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:08.140
Because Star Wars.
456
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.339
Yeah, and they were like, if you want to sell it,
457
00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:15.630
make it sci-fi. So... It's the story is identical, like
458
00:22:15.710 --> 00:22:17.700
even down to the fact that the sheriff, he's still
459
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.000
the sheriff. His best friend is still, you know, the
460
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.539
village doctor, but it's just the station doctor. And they're
461
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:29.069
mining for some chemical on a moon of Jupiter.
462
00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:31.269
Yeah, basically.
463
00:22:31.769 --> 00:22:34.589
And all the visual, like it's one of those films
464
00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:36.910
a bit like Blade Runner where people try to go, oh,
465
00:22:36.950 --> 00:22:40.640
this is in the alien universe because technically there's nothing
466
00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:44.319
that says it isn't. And it is, again, it's about corporations.
467
00:22:45.390 --> 00:22:47.779
Alien is in the Blade Runner universe now.
468
00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:53.180
Yeah, yeah. But the idea was that this and Moon
469
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.759
technically could also be bolted in if you wanted to
470
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:58.059
do so in your fan canon, because there's nothing that
471
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.650
goes against it, and they're both about the theme of
472
00:23:00.730 --> 00:23:06.549
corporate greed over humanity. So there's that one. And Silent
473
00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:10.190
Running is another classic film from the 70s, about a
474
00:23:10.269 --> 00:23:13.769
guy on a, there's like two or three ships, and
475
00:23:13.789 --> 00:23:18.519
they've got the last plant life from Earth, for whatever reason.
476
00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:19.160
So it's Wally.
477
00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:23.400
Yeah, essentially. And it's kind of weird because it's a,
478
00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:26.420
I think it's rated universal for anyone to watch, but
479
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.539
essentially the main guy in it, they get a message
480
00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:31.750
from Earth going, look, there's no point, burn all the plants,
481
00:23:32.109 --> 00:23:34.470
kill all the plant life, there's no point in bringing
482
00:23:34.509 --> 00:23:36.910
it back. So he decides he doesn't want to do
483
00:23:36.930 --> 00:23:38.849
that because he spent so long looking after the plants.
484
00:23:38.869 --> 00:23:42.509
So he murders his crewmates and manages to salvage one
485
00:23:42.589 --> 00:23:48.190
ship with plants from Earth. And, yeah, and basically jettisons
486
00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:50.849
everyone else and just goes off on his own to
487
00:23:50.910 --> 00:23:55.829
keep the plants alive. And it's a very... Essentially, you've
488
00:23:55.869 --> 00:24:00.049
got a lonely person having to... You've got the isolated
489
00:24:00.089 --> 00:24:02.470
man element of Silent Running where you've just got one
490
00:24:02.509 --> 00:24:03.470
guy ends up on his own.
491
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.779
Basically doing one job for the company but then getting
492
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:12.160
jettisoned by that company you've got the element of the
493
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.349
sheriff trying to you know wrangle things in and you've
494
00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:18.200
got the company trying to not caring about human life
495
00:24:18.269 --> 00:24:21.630
in order to get higher productivity that part is also
496
00:24:21.690 --> 00:24:24.309
in this and then you've got the alien sector which
497
00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:27.109
has again got very much those similar elements but i
498
00:24:27.170 --> 00:24:29.069
guess that side of it is where you bring in
499
00:24:30.029 --> 00:24:32.849
things that connect more with things like Gertie. And again,
500
00:24:32.869 --> 00:24:35.769
you're probably right, 2001 A Space Odyssey had some element of,
501
00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:41.539
some influence on that. So realistically, looking at Moon with
502
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.960
the knowledge of those sci-fi, like sort of their cultural
503
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.099
classics more than saleable classics, I think Moon, you kind
504
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.799
of get what Moon is a little bit more because
505
00:24:54.819 --> 00:24:57.839
it is just a hodgepodge of other things. The thing
506
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:02.309
that really makes Moon work as its own unique entity,
507
00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:06.049
I think, is Sam Rockwell. It's him being on his own,
508
00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:10.740
only having himself to perform against, and having to do
509
00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:13.839
two distinct performances that you can tell from a glance
510
00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:15.000
are two different people.
511
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:17.880
I think the makeup did more work there.
512
00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:20.059
The makeup did a lot of work. I'm not, I won't,
513
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:22.440
disagree with that because he gets.
514
00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:24.539
Greyer doesn't he the old one looks like he's about
515
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.319
to sort of collapse into sludge at any point he
516
00:25:27.380 --> 00:25:28.019
looks like.
517
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:30.640
He's decaying doesn't he before your very eyes.
518
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.049
But the performances are different like you get this kind
519
00:25:33.089 --> 00:25:38.430
of older slightly calmer older version of him as well
520
00:25:38.470 --> 00:25:40.970
as the fact that he does employ I think certainly
521
00:25:41.009 --> 00:25:43.210
about halfway through he employs like a limp or something
522
00:25:43.750 --> 00:25:46.819
after the crash whereas the young guy is very much
523
00:25:46.930 --> 00:25:49.200
standing upright he's a bit more aggressive in style more
524
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:54.509
brash um so i think yeah i think he does
525
00:25:54.549 --> 00:25:56.430
do a good job with his physicality as well as
526
00:25:56.470 --> 00:25:59.250
his performance but yeah that would be the difference with
527
00:25:59.269 --> 00:26:02.609
moon is it's a it's a character study yeah that
528
00:26:02.650 --> 00:26:06.900
happens to use all of these things as props touchstones yeah.
529
00:26:06.690 --> 00:26:10.519
I thought it was impressive how many like pretty famous
530
00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:14.140
actors are in like really minor roles well i suppose
531
00:26:14.180 --> 00:26:15.779
maybe they wouldn't have been that big back then i
532
00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:20.190
mean you've got It's funny that they've got Matt Berry
533
00:26:20.230 --> 00:26:23.480
and Benedict Wong in it in the same scene and
534
00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:25.720
they obviously were both in the IT crowd together.
535
00:26:26.299 --> 00:26:28.180
In 2009, would that have been about the same year
536
00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:28.720
they did that?
537
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:30.119
Yeah, I think it would be.
538
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.200
That's probably how he got them, because it's literally, as
539
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:35.089
you say, it's like two five-second films. So it's probably
540
00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:35.769
in their lunch break.
541
00:26:36.390 --> 00:26:38.490
If the camera pulls out a bit, they're actually on
542
00:26:38.549 --> 00:26:41.529
the IT crowd set. Roy and Moss are just off
543
00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:42.210
in the corner.
544
00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:43.529
Do you reckon the other actors come and go, it's
545
00:26:43.589 --> 00:26:44.519
not for you, Jack?
546
00:26:44.630 --> 00:26:47.700
Or it could be the same universe. There's nothing saying
547
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:49.099
that it isn't the same universe.
548
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.619
Well, they do try turning Gertie off and on again
549
00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:52.000
at the end.
550
00:26:52.849 --> 00:26:55.910
Remember Renham Industries? You never find out what Renham Industries does.
551
00:26:56.130 --> 00:26:56.809
No, no.
552
00:26:57.150 --> 00:26:59.079
That would have been the best twist. If it had
553
00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:02.960
turned out this was Renham Industries. But yeah, you've got
554
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:08.480
his daughter's played by Kaya Scodelario from Skins. She played
555
00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:12.940
Claire Redfield in Welcome to Raccoon City. Dominique McKelligot is
556
00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:15.519
his girlfriend. She is Queen Maeve in The Boys.
557
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:17.940
So the question I have on all of these, because
558
00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:20.420
these are all names that So some of them, like
559
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.019
Scodelaria wasn't a massive name at the time. She's become
560
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.259
bigger since. But some of them were known names. Matt
561
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.220
Berry wasn't huge in like a Hollywood level, but he
562
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:32.039
was a known name. But also we know from the
563
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:35.990
trivia and stuff that Duncan Jones was already in talks
564
00:27:36.089 --> 00:27:38.309
with Sam Rockwell about making a film with him.
565
00:27:38.329 --> 00:27:41.059
Well, because he's delivering Bowie's son. I mean, he is
566
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:42.579
a nepo baby.
567
00:27:42.700 --> 00:27:44.119
It's one of those things where it's like.
568
00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:46.119
We didn't use Bowie as a name, so at least
569
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:46.640
there's that.
570
00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:48.819
Well, that was the thing. So Duncan Jones has said
571
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:50.420
that the reason he didn't use the Bowie name is
572
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.640
he didn't want to sort of lean on that nepo
573
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.690
baby thing. And in that sense, he hasn't. But it's
574
00:27:56.730 --> 00:27:59.430
the question of how much does being a nepo baby
575
00:27:59.490 --> 00:28:01.109
give you? In this sense, he didn't lean on the
576
00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:03.769
name and go, look, it's Zowie Bowie's first film. Fine. Fine.
577
00:28:04.430 --> 00:28:07.329
But it still, it must have been the thing that
578
00:28:07.349 --> 00:28:09.130
got him, because I don't see how else, if he's
579
00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:14.279
only done one short in 2002, he somehow got a
580
00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:18.920
connection with Sam Rockwell that then granted him not only
581
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.099
to write a potential version of Mute for him that
582
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.440
he rejected, but to then go, right, okay, if you
583
00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:25.859
don't want to do that, what else do you want
584
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:28.599
to do? I'll write that for you. And then go, hey,
585
00:28:28.660 --> 00:28:31.029
Kevin Spacey, on a five million budget.
586
00:28:32.089 --> 00:28:34.250
One short and then go, hey, Sam Rockwell.
587
00:28:34.369 --> 00:28:36.650
I think Spacey at the height of his career as well.
588
00:28:36.769 --> 00:28:39.700
Yeah. That's not a name you got if you were
589
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:42.619
sort of our level filmmaker. You just go, I'm just
590
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:44.539
going to contact Kevin Spacey and see what he's up
591
00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:46.940
to at his peak of fame.
592
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:47.819
Yeah, yeah.
593
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:52.400
So there's definitely elements of nepotism. Yeah. No, I mean,
594
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:54.220
it's not like he was a nepo baby that then
595
00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:57.660
had no talent. It's a competently put together film.
596
00:28:57.779 --> 00:29:01.220
Unfortunately, his career after it's been garbage. Is it really?
597
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.829
The film he did after this is fucking World of Warcraft. Yeah.
598
00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:06.009
No, no, no, it's not.
599
00:29:06.470 --> 00:29:07.910
Or do you have another one between?
600
00:29:07.970 --> 00:29:10.630
Ish. So the next one he wrote was World of Warcraft. Right.
601
00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:12.009
But he directed World of Warcraft.
602
00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:12.690
Yeah, he did as well.
603
00:29:12.710 --> 00:29:14.630
Was it just called Warcraft?
604
00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:17.650
Yeah. Warcraft, the beginning in America, I think it was called. But,
605
00:29:17.710 --> 00:29:20.029
you know, always good to have different names in different countries.
606
00:29:20.150 --> 00:29:21.079
Garbage movie.
607
00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:24.180
But yeah, it was really bad. So the thing is,
608
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.769
he did Whistle in 2002, which he wrote and directed.
609
00:29:27.089 --> 00:29:30.609
He wrote and directed Moon in 2009. He then went
610
00:29:30.730 --> 00:29:33.869
and directed, but didn't write, Source Code, which was a
611
00:29:33.910 --> 00:29:34.670
decent movie.
612
00:29:34.710 --> 00:29:36.670
Oh yeah, I've not seen that. I've heard good things.
613
00:29:36.750 --> 00:29:39.190
Yeah, it's a decent movie. For me, it's not as
614
00:29:39.230 --> 00:29:42.440
good as Moon. and the ending is a bit too Hollywood.
615
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:46.089
But overall, not a bad film. He then wrote and
616
00:29:46.130 --> 00:29:50.589
directed Mute, which is his lowest rated film, even though
617
00:29:50.609 --> 00:29:55.869
that's technically a sequel to this. Then he did... I
618
00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:58.349
think the next one after that, actually, is the one
619
00:29:58.390 --> 00:30:00.630
that's come out this year, but only in a French
620
00:30:01.170 --> 00:30:04.690
film festival, which is, yeah, the next one is that
621
00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:08.990
is Rogue Trooper, which is in the 2000 AD comic series,
622
00:30:09.029 --> 00:30:11.509
which is where Judge Dredd is from. It's a fully
623
00:30:11.609 --> 00:30:15.170
CGI animated movie. It's come out, it's got, it's his
624
00:30:15.230 --> 00:30:16.890
highest rated movie currently.
625
00:30:16.970 --> 00:30:19.279
We've both just poured faces of disgust.
626
00:30:19.299 --> 00:30:20.920
I just thought of early to Battle Angel.
627
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.720
Yeah.
628
00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:27.299
But he's, I mean, that's, Getting a release next year in,
629
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:31.240
I think, an American film festival. But it's not... What
630
00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:34.599
I mean is there's not a wide cinema release. And
631
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:36.579
the other thing that's annoying is, oh, it's an indie
632
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.319
film at $ 10 to $ 20 million. And you're like, yeah,
633
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:41.579
nice small budget.
634
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:45.900
We do need to bring the term AA. Because we
635
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.509
have indie... In the game sphere, you have indie, AA
636
00:30:49.549 --> 00:30:54.269
and AAA. Whereas indie is some guy with Game Maker. Yeah.
637
00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:58.059
Then you have AA, which is not backed by a
638
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:03.440
big publisher, mid-tier production. It's not Rockstar, but it's got
639
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.339
some money back. Yeah, where you have the people who
640
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:09.950
make the Elite Sniper games and Atomfall and stuff like that,
641
00:31:09.990 --> 00:31:12.210
where that middle band sort of thing.
642
00:31:12.250 --> 00:31:14.230
But they don't want to make mid-range films, do they? No.
643
00:31:14.849 --> 00:31:15.349
No, true.
644
00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:17.609
Because if you can make mid-range films, that's a nice
645
00:31:17.630 --> 00:31:18.970
step up to getting to.
646
00:31:18.829 --> 00:31:22.349
Higher cost films. Yeah, and then obviously you have AAA,
647
00:31:22.369 --> 00:31:27.160
where it's like multiple publishers. I think we need to
648
00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:31.460
bring that term over for films like Moon, where it's like...
649
00:31:31.339 --> 00:31:32.559
Certainly like Road Troopers.
650
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:35.740
We're doing a $ 20 million budget and going, that's an indie.
651
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:37.450
That's not an indie film, is it?
652
00:31:37.460 --> 00:31:40.240
You know, the bread and butter of the film industry
653
00:31:40.299 --> 00:31:44.900
for a long time was those... mid-range five to ten
654
00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:48.519
million dollar films so many films that we now look
655
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.099
back on and go yeah that's an absolute classic of
656
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:54.859
cinema were in that five to ten million dollar range
657
00:31:55.099 --> 00:31:57.819
because it's high enough that you can get a couple
658
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:00.119
of famous people in it and it looks nice but
659
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.200
it's low enough that you can still make your money
660
00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:05.359
back obviously this is before we entered the streaming areas
661
00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:08.160
you could make it back seven million no not always
662
00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:11.730
but you can make your money back hmm Just, even
663
00:32:11.769 --> 00:32:13.150
if it didn't do well at the cinema, you would
664
00:32:13.190 --> 00:32:15.970
make your money back on DVDs and things like that.
665
00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:16.259
Yes.
666
00:32:16.539 --> 00:32:20.400
Obviously, that revenue stream has gone now. very few people
667
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:21.539
buy physical media.
668
00:32:21.579 --> 00:32:23.140
People would rather stream something.
669
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.740
Yeah, but that's the problem is streaming only pays like 0.01
670
00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:29.220
pence per stream.
671
00:32:29.369 --> 00:32:31.630
You're not making a massive amount of money.
672
00:32:31.650 --> 00:32:34.750
So now no one wants to make those mid-range films
673
00:32:34.789 --> 00:32:38.150
because they're all squabbling. And gaming's doing the same thing.
674
00:32:38.549 --> 00:32:42.230
All the big companies are all scrabbling for that Fortnite jackpot.
675
00:32:42.349 --> 00:32:44.170
Well, that's what GTA 6 is going to be.
676
00:32:44.190 --> 00:32:45.410
Well, yeah, that'll be the next one.
677
00:32:45.430 --> 00:32:47.549
Which is why nothing is coming out later this year.
678
00:32:47.730 --> 00:32:51.420
Yeah. So, by the way, if you look at Rogue Trooper,
679
00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:55.809
the new film, it is literally jam-packed with celebrities, including
680
00:32:55.829 --> 00:32:59.690
people like Sean Bean. What's his name who was in this?
681
00:32:59.710 --> 00:33:04.509
We just named him from IT Crowd. Matt Barry is
682
00:33:04.549 --> 00:33:07.319
in it. And there's loads of Hollywood celebrities in it
683
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.740
as well, and you're just like, God.
684
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.460
Stunt casting nine times out of ten doesn't really work.
685
00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:13.960
Does it?
686
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.500
What did you think of the score on this film?
687
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:18.599
Can't remember the score again i've got to say it
688
00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:20.500
didn't stick with me i love the score in this
689
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:24.259
film yeah i don't know why like vampires i guess
690
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:26.119
this one just didn't stick with me it didn't stand
691
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:27.930
out as being bad no but.
692
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.740
It didn't stick i think most scores should be like
693
00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:34.410
that where they're kind of just serve as background noise
694
00:33:34.430 --> 00:33:37.670
to kind of iron out any silences or give you
695
00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:40.109
silences so you have that light and shade there's very
696
00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:42.690
it's very rare for me to Because if it was
697
00:33:42.710 --> 00:33:47.589
like big synth numbers, like it was like a rock opera. Yeah.
698
00:33:48.849 --> 00:33:49.950
Wow.
699
00:33:50.130 --> 00:33:51.609
I'm bored just I haven't watched in a while. But
700
00:33:51.670 --> 00:33:53.769
if you had like a big synth opera sort of
701
00:33:54.190 --> 00:33:57.509
like vibe to it, like a sci-fi sort of synth opera,
702
00:33:57.529 --> 00:33:59.009
I don't think that would have worked for it.
703
00:33:59.369 --> 00:33:59.569
No.
704
00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:03.410
The main theme in this I love, though. You are right,
705
00:34:03.430 --> 00:34:07.519
because it's more of an understated, unlike some of the
706
00:34:07.539 --> 00:34:09.000
other ones that I've mentioned. This one is a little
707
00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:11.920
bit more of an understated soundtrack. However, it kind of
708
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:13.820
makes sense. So Clint Mansell was the guy who made
709
00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:18.869
the soundtrack for this film. And he also did soundtracks
710
00:34:18.909 --> 00:34:22.110
for Requiem for a Dream. More in line with this,
711
00:34:22.210 --> 00:34:24.909
he did Mass Effect 3. He did the soundtrack for
712
00:34:24.929 --> 00:34:29.510
that game. And something that you've definitely seen before, he
713
00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:32.409
did the 2005 Doom movie soundtrack.
714
00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:33.869
I've seen that movie as well.
715
00:34:33.889 --> 00:34:35.489
It's a good film and a good soundtrack.
716
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.000
You know what? More bombastic than this soundtrack. We turned
717
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:39.679
into a gay porno on VGMP.
718
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:40.420
Yes, we did, yeah.
719
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.800
The only good part of that is the little first-person
720
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:44.639
montage right at the fucking end of it.
721
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.579
What about Semper Fi, motherfucker?
722
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:51.969
I don't remember that. All I remember is that The
723
00:34:52.030 --> 00:34:54.130
Rock actually plays a villain for once.
724
00:34:54.510 --> 00:34:57.210
It was one of his first roles after the WWE,
725
00:34:57.349 --> 00:35:00.309
and at the time, he was like, I don't want to...
726
00:34:59.889 --> 00:35:02.090
They offered him the Carl Urban role, and he went, no, no,
727
00:35:02.130 --> 00:35:03.110
I want to do something different.
728
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:03.730
I want to be the villain.
729
00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:04.829
Yeah, I want to be a villain, I want to
730
00:35:04.869 --> 00:35:07.820
be a more interesting part. At the time, he was
731
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.510
actually looking at going into acting to do acting... So
732
00:35:11.550 --> 00:35:13.309
he was like, give me the villain part. It's more interesting.
733
00:35:13.329 --> 00:35:13.710
So he does that.
734
00:35:13.730 --> 00:35:15.840
It helps if you can actually act, unfortunately.
735
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:17.639
I mean, he was decent in the film, but let's
736
00:35:17.659 --> 00:35:21.280
be honest, it wasn't a challenging part. He wasn't Sam
737
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:22.139
Rockwell in Moon.
738
00:35:22.340 --> 00:35:23.239
No, no.
739
00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:26.019
But yeah, he was good in it. And then after that,
740
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.130
he just went, eh, just give me parts as the Rock.
741
00:35:29.489 --> 00:35:30.989
And he just gave up on being.
742
00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:33.130
Yeah, the only other time I've seen him be a
743
00:35:33.170 --> 00:35:34.429
villain since then.
744
00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:35.070
Scorpion King.
745
00:35:35.110 --> 00:35:36.630
No, that's Scorpion Kings before Doom.
746
00:35:36.789 --> 00:35:36.869
Oh.
747
00:35:38.070 --> 00:35:42.070
Is Red Notice, although he technically is a villain, he's
748
00:35:42.130 --> 00:35:44.949
not really, because they're all villains, like the film's from
749
00:35:44.989 --> 00:35:46.869
their point of view. The only other time I've seen
750
00:35:46.889 --> 00:35:47.349
him actually.
751
00:35:47.369 --> 00:35:48.610
But he betrays Ryan Reynolds.
752
00:35:48.710 --> 00:35:50.239
Yeah, but then they all make friends again at the end.
753
00:35:50.250 --> 00:35:52.570
How could you betray Ryan Reynolds? Easily.
754
00:35:54.110 --> 00:35:56.409
Every single time I see an advert for that Welcome
755
00:35:56.449 --> 00:35:59.659
to Wrexham, I hope Mac just turns around and shanks him,
756
00:36:00.099 --> 00:36:02.739
does some of his karate move. Get Smart was the
757
00:36:02.780 --> 00:36:05.300
film I was going to say, by the way. We're
758
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:05.820
back to Moon.
759
00:36:06.019 --> 00:36:07.610
Back to Moon, yeah. Is there any.
760
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:09.510
So, I mean.
761
00:36:09.789 --> 00:36:10.409
I really have.
762
00:36:10.750 --> 00:36:12.889
This came out the same year as Avatar. This is
763
00:36:12.929 --> 00:36:13.909
way better than Avatar.
764
00:36:13.929 --> 00:36:16.849
It is way better than Avatar, but Avatar made all
765
00:36:16.869 --> 00:36:17.429
of the cash.
766
00:36:17.610 --> 00:36:22.349
Yes, 100%. It's also the same year that Catherine Bigelow
767
00:36:22.909 --> 00:36:25.909
won the directing thing for The Hurt Locker.
768
00:36:25.929 --> 00:36:26.400
The Hurt Locker.
769
00:36:26.420 --> 00:36:27.880
I looked it up because I wanted to see, please
770
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.300
tell me Avatar didn't win Best Director, and it didn't.
771
00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:34.340
it did at the Golden Globes though and I'm like
772
00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:35.420
sorry if you're not going to give it to the
773
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:39.539
Hurt Locker as every other award ceremony did Moon deserves
774
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:41.659
it way more than Avatar there's probably other films that
775
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:43.940
deserved it I can't think of anything that deserves it
776
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:44.500
less than.
777
00:36:44.420 --> 00:36:48.210
Avatar yeah Avatar was a really bad film well I.
778
00:36:48.170 --> 00:36:50.670
Was saying we were saying on the show once ages
779
00:36:50.710 --> 00:36:53.269
ago now the first one fair enough it made all
780
00:36:53.309 --> 00:36:55.510
that money because it was at the time this like
781
00:36:55.530 --> 00:37:00.340
new technology blah blah the second one made almost as much. Like,
782
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.380
it's one of the highest-grossing films of all time. I
783
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:07.199
do not know a single person who has seen Avatar 2.
784
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:07.840
Or the third.
785
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:09.039
Or the third one.
786
00:37:09.099 --> 00:37:12.480
I met one person who watched the second one, and actually,
787
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.539
I met two, and they're both women. And I'm wondering
788
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.110
if maybe more women went and watched it.
789
00:37:18.139 --> 00:37:20.260
Or the women randomly went and watched Avatar.
790
00:37:20.900 --> 00:37:21.739
I'm aware of.
791
00:37:22.539 --> 00:37:24.199
Feminist icon, James Cameron.
792
00:37:24.739 --> 00:37:26.210
But to be fair, all the people I know that
793
00:37:26.250 --> 00:37:29.090
have positive things to say about Avatar tend to be women.
794
00:37:29.590 --> 00:37:34.250
So maybe it's actually hitting a demographic that most sci-fi...
795
00:37:34.429 --> 00:37:37.449
Because sci-fi isn't generally a female genre. Not that it
796
00:37:37.510 --> 00:37:41.559
can't be, but it is generally a bit male-dominated. So
797
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:43.719
I do wonder if maybe Avatar has managed to hit
798
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.340
a sweet spot, which is why it doesn't appeal to me,
799
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.000
even though I love sci-fi. But it might appeal to
800
00:37:49.059 --> 00:37:51.409
someone who generally isn't into sci-fi.
801
00:37:51.789 --> 00:37:54.230
I think that's more of a talk for if we
802
00:37:54.269 --> 00:37:57.050
ever do Avatar, which I really don't want to re-watch.
803
00:37:57.849 --> 00:38:01.570
I'll add it to the list. I'm kidding.
804
00:38:01.610 --> 00:38:03.610
I don't know. I genuinely don't have anything to say
805
00:38:03.670 --> 00:38:05.289
about Moon. It's one of those ones where it's like,
806
00:38:05.349 --> 00:38:08.300
I wouldn't change anything. I probably wouldn't change anything. I
807
00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:11.920
probably wouldn't do anything. That's the thing. I don't know
808
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:14.099
what I would say. I don't think there's anything you
809
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:16.880
can do to make it better. There's nothing to fix.
810
00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:22.880
It's a perfectly adequate... movie. I really just don't have
811
00:38:22.940 --> 00:38:27.960
anything to say about it. Nothing gripped me. Nothing stuck
812
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.690
with me. But it's not for the fault of the movie.
813
00:38:31.110 --> 00:38:33.269
It just didn't hit a chord with me. I think
814
00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:35.769
the three-point system may be the only thing I would
815
00:38:35.789 --> 00:38:39.570
change is that the clones degrade. and rather that it's
816
00:38:39.610 --> 00:38:41.230
something that the corporations do.
817
00:38:41.429 --> 00:38:42.690
Maybe it's in the food.
818
00:38:42.710 --> 00:38:43.070
On the bus.
819
00:38:43.090 --> 00:38:45.900
Yeah, so he's degrading because he's eating the food and
820
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:46.539
it's degrading him.
821
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:48.800
And at least that kind of gives you a sort of, A,
822
00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:51.460
it makes the corporation a bit more evil, and B,
823
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:57.429
sort of gives him a little bit more autonomy to that.
824
00:38:57.929 --> 00:38:59.610
You could have this moment where you find out that
825
00:38:59.630 --> 00:39:02.010
the corporation is actively making the clones die when they
826
00:39:02.050 --> 00:39:04.849
start reaching a point of consciousness where they're sort of
827
00:39:04.949 --> 00:39:07.519
figuring it all out. And that each time they figure
828
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.420
it out, they get killed off. Which, again, though, I
829
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.119
think makes it more of an active villain. Whereas this
830
00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:15.239
is more of an existential sort of thing.
831
00:39:15.340 --> 00:39:16.840
I don't think that would work, though. At least not
832
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.639
in the... You'd have to change the way that they die.
833
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:20.329
Because the way they die at the moment is they
834
00:39:20.750 --> 00:39:24.170
willingly lay in that coffin-looking thing. Because they're going to
835
00:39:24.190 --> 00:39:26.690
be transported back home.
836
00:39:26.710 --> 00:39:28.570
But they go in that specifically. I mean, they go
837
00:39:28.590 --> 00:39:30.539
in that because they're kind of already... at this sort
838
00:39:30.579 --> 00:39:32.659
of point of degradation.
839
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:33.860
Can I raise a really stupid point that I'm only
840
00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:37.000
raising just for a laugh did anyone notice when they
841
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:41.019
go and see that incineration chamber there's a pattern on
842
00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:44.280
the floor underneath it that looks an awful lot like
843
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:50.239
the Umbrella Corporation logo and I was like Resident Evil
844
00:39:50.300 --> 00:39:51.219
in space.
845
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:52.619
Does that mean Duncan Jones is more of a fan
846
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:54.980
of Resident Evil than the current director of Resident Evil
847
00:39:57.500 --> 00:39:59.019
it's like it could be any corporation it could be
848
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.320
Weyland-Yutani it could be Umbrella I have one I have
849
00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:05.039
a question then since you know the idea of rewriting
850
00:40:05.059 --> 00:40:07.900
the film isn't going to take off on this particular.
851
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:12.329
One so genuinely just because I don't I honestly can't
852
00:40:12.369 --> 00:40:15.070
think of anything to change other than turning it either
853
00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:17.250
other than leaning into a genre more.
854
00:40:17.309 --> 00:40:20.960
I completely agree it's It's a perfectly well-made film that
855
00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:23.909
I do not regret watching. I had a good time
856
00:40:23.929 --> 00:40:26.269
while I was watching it, but like you said, Ben,
857
00:40:26.329 --> 00:40:29.530
and it hasn't resonated with me or struck an emotional
858
00:40:29.570 --> 00:40:30.039
chord with me.
859
00:40:30.050 --> 00:40:30.869
But it's not slop.
860
00:40:31.250 --> 00:40:34.070
This is the thing. Most Marvel films go in one ear,
861
00:40:34.289 --> 00:40:35.949
out the other, and I kind of go, oh, there
862
00:40:35.969 --> 00:40:39.420
was absolutely no passion. There was no... This is just
863
00:40:39.460 --> 00:40:42.440
a corporate pay-by-numbers, and that's kind of why it always goes...
864
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:46.559
And I forget about it. I remember we left a film...
865
00:40:46.940 --> 00:40:50.309
with a group of friends and we left I think
866
00:40:50.349 --> 00:40:52.130
it was the Eternals it might not actually be the
867
00:40:52.170 --> 00:40:54.710
Eternals because I think that made us so angry but
868
00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:56.199
it was a Marvel film and we left and in
869
00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:59.860
the walk to the car we hadn't said anything and
870
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.219
it wasn't you know we could be like oh my
871
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:03.619
god wasn't that or just like oh I hated this
872
00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:07.610
I hated that Genuinely, we just walked back and went,
873
00:41:07.650 --> 00:41:10.360
that was content. This isn't the same thing, but it
874
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.519
gives me the same feeling, and I genuinely couldn't tell
875
00:41:13.539 --> 00:41:13.900
you why.
876
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:16.699
I think it's just it doesn't strike with your taste. Yeah.
877
00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:17.980
And that's fine. That happens.
878
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:22.300
But I didn't not enjoy it. It's just that it
879
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:23.800
didn't resonate with me.
880
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.900
So my question was this. Duncan Jones' career took a
881
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.860
steep decline shortly after this film. He did Source Code,
882
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:33.880
which did well, but he didn't write it. but then
883
00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:38.500
he did warcraft which tanked domestically and critically mute's critical
884
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:42.019
reception was even lower we have no um financial figures
885
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:43.559
for that because it was a netflix thing and they
886
00:41:43.579 --> 00:41:46.909
don't release numbers um and then the only other thing
887
00:41:46.949 --> 00:41:49.130
he's done is what's coming what's come out this year
888
00:41:49.150 --> 00:41:51.929
which is road troopers which is doing well critically but
889
00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:55.389
only from like a french film festival um and isn't
890
00:41:55.610 --> 00:41:59.030
actually in general release and is also a fully animated feature.
891
00:41:59.309 --> 00:42:01.519
I'm surprised he hasn't done a biopic about his dad.
892
00:42:03.019 --> 00:42:04.480
Again, it's that thing of not wanting to lean on
893
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:06.460
his career, I guess. On his dad's career.
894
00:42:06.739 --> 00:42:09.300
He seemed like the person who... I don't know anything
895
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.690
about Duncan Jones, but it does seem like... David Bowie
896
00:42:13.809 --> 00:42:17.070
seems like the perfect person to do a real biopic about.
897
00:42:17.170 --> 00:42:19.449
It'd have to be two or three films to do,
898
00:42:19.469 --> 00:42:22.050
because he had a very eventful life, didn't he, David Bowie?
899
00:42:22.070 --> 00:42:24.590
And he led through different phases as well in his career.
900
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:27.679
But my question was, do you think Duncan Jones is
901
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.239
a director with only one, maybe two good films in him,
902
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:32.539
If so, what do you think makes that the case?
903
00:42:32.579 --> 00:42:34.780
And if not, what do you think has contributed to
904
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.579
his recent live action projects failing?
905
00:42:38.539 --> 00:42:42.320
Stars, I think he's choosing bad projects. Warcraft was never
906
00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:47.550
going to be good. You can't turn an MMORPG into
907
00:42:47.590 --> 00:42:48.989
a film that's going to have wide success.
908
00:42:49.010 --> 00:42:50.599
Well, it was meant to be a part one, wasn't it?
909
00:42:50.730 --> 00:42:53.369
But part one wasn't good enough for anyone to want
910
00:42:53.409 --> 00:42:54.130
the part two.
911
00:42:55.110 --> 00:42:59.210
You almost can't go into films wanting a second part.
912
00:43:00.050 --> 00:43:03.989
unless you properly advertise that, I think, because... Or make
913
00:43:04.030 --> 00:43:07.030
the first part work. Yeah, well, that's the problem with
914
00:43:07.449 --> 00:43:09.389
Alita as well, where you kind of ended it and
915
00:43:09.409 --> 00:43:11.730
were just like, I don't want another part of this.
916
00:43:11.849 --> 00:43:14.610
No, because even the MCU, which obviously is the thing
917
00:43:14.670 --> 00:43:17.260
everything's trying to copy when they're saying, we're going to
918
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:18.059
have ten films.
919
00:43:18.099 --> 00:43:18.500
Yeah.
920
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:20.079
The first Iron Man.
921
00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:21.099
The films still work on their own.
922
00:43:21.139 --> 00:43:23.159
Yeah, the first Iron Man... Don't get me wrong, they've
923
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:25.840
fallen apart now, but the first Iron Man, if they'd
924
00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:28.099
have never made anything else after the first Iron Man...
925
00:43:28.670 --> 00:43:30.269
That film is fine on its own.
926
00:43:30.449 --> 00:43:31.070
Yeah.
927
00:43:31.369 --> 00:43:32.449
It's a perfectly adequate film.
928
00:43:32.789 --> 00:43:36.340
But the Tom Cruise mummy is not fine on its own.
929
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:39.159
So there's no reason to ever go back to it.
930
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:40.380
I mean, not that you would know because it wasn't
931
00:43:40.420 --> 00:43:42.420
any good. But there is no reason to ever go
932
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.920
back to it. Same as there's not really any reason
933
00:43:43.940 --> 00:43:46.519
to go back to Alita because you know you're not
934
00:43:46.579 --> 00:43:48.360
getting a full story.
935
00:43:49.099 --> 00:43:53.420
So, for me, because I wanted to ponder that. It's
936
00:43:53.659 --> 00:43:55.179
kind of easier with him because he's got such a
937
00:43:55.300 --> 00:43:58.829
small film career despite it being... having gone on for
938
00:43:59.329 --> 00:44:03.150
over 20 years um I think what it is is
939
00:44:03.530 --> 00:44:06.829
and watching Moon this time with everything that I figured
940
00:44:06.869 --> 00:44:11.130
out I found out I don't think he's actually ever
941
00:44:11.190 --> 00:44:14.050
written anything apart from maybe Whistle because I haven't seen
942
00:44:14.110 --> 00:44:17.230
that I don't know if he's ever written anything truly
943
00:44:17.269 --> 00:44:20.329
original like this is the closest in his feature film
944
00:44:20.349 --> 00:44:22.510
catalogue that's truly original.
945
00:44:22.130 --> 00:44:24.449
But as you said it's a distillation of three existing
946
00:44:24.469 --> 00:44:25.909
movies which he was given.
947
00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:30.489
By Sam Rockwell yeah but The themes are so strong.
948
00:44:31.090 --> 00:44:33.409
The set design is so Weyland-Yutani.
949
00:44:33.489 --> 00:44:37.030
Yeah, I think it's original in the sense of I
950
00:44:37.070 --> 00:44:37.969
can't think of anything.
951
00:44:38.090 --> 00:44:42.050
But at least this is a unique idea from all
952
00:44:42.090 --> 00:44:43.570
of these different inspirations.
953
00:44:43.590 --> 00:44:46.539
Well, they say, isn't it, plagiarism... If you steal from
954
00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:49.460
one thing, it's plagiarism. If you steal from everything, it's art.
955
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.199
Everything you make will be distillations of other things that
956
00:44:52.219 --> 00:44:52.659
you enjoy.
957
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:57.579
But following this, other than Mute... following this, he's only
958
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:02.260
really done Warcraft, which is based solely on an IP,
959
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:05.030
and now Rogue Troopers, which, even if it's as good
960
00:45:05.070 --> 00:45:08.690
as the critical reception so far has been, it's still
961
00:45:08.730 --> 00:45:12.739
based on someone else's IP. Which makes me wonder, it's like,
962
00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:15.599
you've been in the business for basically 20 years plus.
963
00:45:17.190 --> 00:45:20.269
And in all that time you've created one unique idea,
964
00:45:20.590 --> 00:45:23.150
which in itself was kind of a prequel slash sequel.
965
00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:26.889
Either this is a prequel rewritten off the back of Mute,
966
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:29.820
or Mute is a sequel written off the back of this.
967
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:31.860
So even then, one of those two is a copy
968
00:45:31.900 --> 00:45:32.400
of the other.
969
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:34.300
You do find that people will go back to doing
970
00:45:34.340 --> 00:45:36.539
a sequel of something they did successful if they've run
971
00:45:36.619 --> 00:45:37.920
out of ideas.
972
00:45:37.940 --> 00:45:39.440
But that was like his third film.
973
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:41.900
Or if you know that this is the only thing
974
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:43.949
that you did that sold, so you go back to it.
975
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:47.809
I mean, harkening back to Nicolas Cage they are doing
976
00:45:47.849 --> 00:45:51.730
a sequel to Lord of War yeah Lords of War
977
00:45:53.219 --> 00:45:56.739
which was I mean that's getting to 20 years old
978
00:45:57.699 --> 00:45:59.659
Lord of War is a fantastic film though I would
979
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.460
genuinely highly recommend Lord of War to anyone it's a
980
00:46:02.539 --> 00:46:04.000
fantastic film maybe.
981
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.840
They send another Lord of War in because he's gone
982
00:46:05.969 --> 00:46:09.349
full vampire's kiss in the middle of it's.
983
00:46:09.190 --> 00:46:12.030
A popular now situation I think it's... So it's a
984
00:46:12.050 --> 00:46:14.409
true story. This is the weird thing. Lord of War
985
00:46:14.429 --> 00:46:18.230
is a true story, but it's an amalgam of three
986
00:46:18.289 --> 00:46:23.659
very famous arms dealers of the post-Cold War era. And
987
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:26.300
then they sort of amalgam all their characters into the
988
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:27.980
one that we get in.
989
00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:29.880
The film.
990
00:46:30.579 --> 00:46:32.619
So there's lots of true things happening, but they didn't
991
00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:36.199
all happen to one person. So to sequel a character
992
00:46:36.260 --> 00:46:40.239
who's based on real people but didn't exist... I guess
993
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:42.409
they're going to have to draw on tropes from.
994
00:46:42.429 --> 00:46:44.130
It's going to end up like John Wick. Like, the
995
00:46:44.170 --> 00:46:46.210
first John Wick had a story behind it, even if
996
00:46:46.250 --> 00:46:48.409
it was base. And then after that, they were just like, eh,
997
00:46:49.329 --> 00:46:52.130
make any odd shit up and just throw Keanu Reeves
998
00:46:52.190 --> 00:46:54.110
into it. That's what they're going to do with it.
999
00:46:54.110 --> 00:46:56.789
Go bigger and bigger and more guns and stuff.
1000
00:46:56.829 --> 00:46:58.230
He's going to be riding around on the back of
1001
00:46:58.289 --> 00:47:00.829
a Harley shooting machine guns into the air.
1002
00:47:01.969 --> 00:47:04.090
Ghostful cage. But yeah, it's just really bizarre.
1003
00:47:04.110 --> 00:47:05.269
I want Alfred in the film.
1004
00:47:05.989 --> 00:47:08.820
He... Where are the guns, Alpha?
1005
00:47:13.460 --> 00:47:18.130
Ta-da! It's just a weird one, usually, that when you find,
1006
00:47:18.150 --> 00:47:20.789
when they do a legacy sequel to something, that it's
1007
00:47:20.949 --> 00:47:23.230
usually kind of a sign that they can't get anything
1008
00:47:23.269 --> 00:47:26.300
else off the ground, so they return to something that's
1009
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:30.340
got a guaranteed... base for it but the one that.
1010
00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:32.539
Makes me laugh is they're doing Heat 2 Michael.
1011
00:47:32.449 --> 00:47:36.389
Mann's doing Heat 2 electric boogaloo but it's not Heat
1012
00:47:36.389 --> 00:47:40.690
2 Val Kilmer's dead Al Pacino's not in it is
1013
00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:44.070
Michael Mann directing it Michael Mann's directing it De Niro's.
1014
00:47:43.650 --> 00:47:45.230
Not in it and De Niro's character is dead at
1015
00:47:45.269 --> 00:47:47.820
the end of the first film anyway unless sorry if
1016
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.820
I've spoiled Heat for anyone unless it like he's it's
1017
00:47:50.860 --> 00:47:54.300
a prequel apparently it's Leo DiCaprio playing who's in it
1018
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:55.699
right so why.
1019
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.360
Would you prequel it though everything's This is the thing
1020
00:47:59.400 --> 00:47:59.980
where it's like.
1021
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:02.139
Certain films don't need extra information.
1022
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.920
You're looking at them and you're going, okay, I don't
1023
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:07.260
see what you could add to this story. There was
1024
00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:11.230
no plot threads or being like, oh, I wonder how
1025
00:48:11.250 --> 00:48:12.369
they developed this.
1026
00:48:12.650 --> 00:48:14.730
It's like you said, what's Michael Mann done in the
1027
00:48:14.750 --> 00:48:18.269
last ten years? Nothing. So it's clearly the only thing
1028
00:48:18.309 --> 00:48:20.289
he can get off the ground. He too.
1029
00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:24.630
Which is supposed to be a prequel though. That's bizarre.
1030
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.780
That's bizarre.
1031
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.539
It should be Heat Zero.
1032
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:31.590
I mean Fargo did a very similar thing where they
1033
00:48:31.610 --> 00:48:33.989
did a legacy sequel to a film where the film
1034
00:48:34.130 --> 00:48:37.050
connects to the TV series but then goes on about
1035
00:48:37.090 --> 00:48:40.030
completely different characters and it's just the fact it's the
1036
00:48:40.110 --> 00:48:43.469
money from the first film that actually connects to the
1037
00:48:43.510 --> 00:48:46.860
TV series and that's it. But it's a very tenuous
1038
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.639
thread but it allows you to tell stories in that
1039
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:52.059
area and maybe that's what they should have done with
1040
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:54.360
Heat is like the money that was stolen in Heat
1041
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:56.239
winds up somewhere else.
1042
00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:00.409
And then they should call this one preheat you and
1043
00:49:00.429 --> 00:49:01.230
then the third one.
1044
00:49:01.190 --> 00:49:02.510
Should be cooked.
1045
00:49:04.030 --> 00:49:07.869
Um fun fact about heeks i doubt we'll do it
1046
00:49:07.949 --> 00:49:13.289
on stc um i enjoy there you go see um
1047
00:49:13.409 --> 00:49:17.530
was that val kilmer's reload was so crisp and clean
1048
00:49:17.869 --> 00:49:20.469
that it was used by the US Marines to show
1049
00:49:20.550 --> 00:49:22.829
the reload of an M16 where they said if Val
1050
00:49:22.869 --> 00:49:24.530
Kilmer can do it this good you should be able
1051
00:49:24.550 --> 00:49:28.550
to do it twice as fast yeah it's the bit
1052
00:49:28.570 --> 00:49:30.269
when they're in the street and they're shooting at each
1053
00:49:30.329 --> 00:49:35.150
other and he does an incredibly clean AR-15 reload.
1054
00:49:35.010 --> 00:49:38.750
Also they didn't dub in or ADR in any of
1055
00:49:38.789 --> 00:49:41.860
the gunfire he because he was when he was editing
1056
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:43.679
the film he was just like it sounds so raw
1057
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:45.820
and they're like well we normally add in these gunshot
1058
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:49.179
sound effects like why this sounds great like you can
1059
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:50.280
hear it reverberating off.
1060
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:52.630
All the glass buildings yeah everything like just keep that
1061
00:49:52.769 --> 00:49:54.449
yeah you've got all that the blanks being shot and
1062
00:49:54.469 --> 00:49:57.190
everything like yeah the the gunplay in it and the
1063
00:49:57.329 --> 00:50:00.190
the physicality of it is very very impressive and yeah
1064
00:50:00.230 --> 00:50:05.170
val kilmore obviously uh trained at his craft but Completely
1065
00:50:05.349 --> 00:50:05.949
sidebar there.
1066
00:50:06.030 --> 00:50:06.989
No, no, that's okay.
1067
00:50:07.230 --> 00:50:08.389
You have your quiz for Moon.
1068
00:50:08.469 --> 00:50:12.389
Yes, so that's the end of us talking about Moon.
1069
00:50:12.429 --> 00:50:14.989
We hope you've enjoyed it. We're now going to be
1070
00:50:15.030 --> 00:50:18.889
back with a quiz after this commercial break. Okay, so
1071
00:50:18.909 --> 00:50:20.849
we're back and it's time for this week's quiz. So
1072
00:50:20.869 --> 00:50:24.590
I believe last week Benton went first, so Rory, you're
1073
00:50:24.610 --> 00:50:29.059
going first this time. Okay, question one, Rory. Rory, put
1074
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:36.130
the fucking Moon down. Question one. Which Guillermo del Toro
1075
00:50:36.289 --> 00:50:38.829
monster movie won the Best Picture Oscar in 2018?
1076
00:50:38.829 --> 00:50:45.559
2018? Oh, I don't know. I don't know what he's
1077
00:50:45.579 --> 00:50:48.920
done past the 90s. Devil's Backbone, but I know that's not.
1078
00:50:49.820 --> 00:50:50.889
Any guesses, Ben?
1079
00:50:50.900 --> 00:50:53.119
It's either Shape of Water or Frankenstein.
1080
00:50:53.260 --> 00:50:56.409
Shape of Water is correct. Frankenstein was only like last year.
1081
00:50:57.750 --> 00:51:00.750
Question two, coming at you first this time, Benton. Which
1082
00:51:00.849 --> 00:51:04.250
Parks and Rec star played the titular role in the
1083
00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:06.849
2017 movie Ingrid Goes West?
1084
00:51:07.949 --> 00:51:13.099
Oh, um... What's her name? Fucking Aubrey Plaza. Rory?
1085
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:15.920
I'm going to be honest.
1086
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:19.519
I have no idea. I could have been a cheeky bugger.
1087
00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:21.159
Aubrey Plaza, I think, Jamie.
1088
00:51:21.260 --> 00:51:23.639
You just said it wrong anyway, so... I.
1089
00:51:23.579 --> 00:51:25.880
Don't even know the name of the film you've named.
1090
00:51:25.900 --> 00:51:29.820
I'm like... oh it's an a24 and i've never watched
1091
00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:33.219
the i've never watched um parks and rec yeah so
1092
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:36.409
literally like these are people i don't know in something
1093
00:51:36.449 --> 00:51:39.250
i've never heard of but it's aubrey plaza.
1094
00:51:40.349 --> 00:51:42.789
Well you said audrey plaza first it's.
1095
00:51:42.750 --> 00:51:47.679
Victoria plaza it's all it is aubrey plaza it is aubrey.
1096
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:49.670
Plaza It's a decent film.
1097
00:51:49.690 --> 00:51:51.110
We need to get little tablets that we can just
1098
00:51:51.130 --> 00:51:51.750
flip over.
1099
00:51:51.769 --> 00:51:54.349
Yeah, I thought about getting little chalkboards so you could
1100
00:51:54.369 --> 00:51:56.090
do that. I might do that if we're going to
1101
00:51:56.130 --> 00:51:57.789
carry on, but obviously we don't know what's happening with
1102
00:51:57.809 --> 00:52:00.610
this space now either, so we'll see what happens with that.
1103
00:52:00.969 --> 00:52:04.349
Question three, so we're back to Rory first this time.
1104
00:52:04.969 --> 00:52:07.449
Who voiced Lord Farquaad in Shrek?
1105
00:52:08.750 --> 00:52:13.150
Oh, that was... He was the main character in Third
1106
00:52:13.489 --> 00:52:21.630
Rock from the Sun. He was in Dexter season three. No,
1107
00:52:21.690 --> 00:52:23.610
I'm not going to get the name. I don't know.
1108
00:52:23.630 --> 00:52:24.550
It's really annoying.
1109
00:52:25.150 --> 00:52:25.730
John Lithgow.
1110
00:52:26.590 --> 00:52:27.019
That's it.
1111
00:52:27.050 --> 00:52:27.760
That's correct.
1112
00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:29.039
I don't want to shoot your head at me. That
1113
00:52:29.059 --> 00:52:30.119
was exactly who I was thinking of.
1114
00:52:30.860 --> 00:52:31.440
John Lithgow.
1115
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:33.320
John Lithgow was exactly who I was thinking of.
1116
00:52:33.340 --> 00:52:39.489
Yeah, John Lithgow. Okay, Benton. Which real-life wrestler does Rocky
1117
00:52:39.570 --> 00:52:42.880
fight in Rocky 3? I thought he fought Mr.
1118
00:52:42.909 --> 00:52:43.809
T in Rocky 3.
1119
00:52:43.809 --> 00:52:45.670
He does, but before he fights Mr. T, he fights
1120
00:52:45.710 --> 00:52:46.690
a real-life wrestler.
1121
00:52:51.570 --> 00:52:52.110
Is it Hogan?
1122
00:52:52.690 --> 00:52:53.409
You're going with Hogan?
1123
00:52:53.429 --> 00:52:54.030
I'm going with Hogan.
1124
00:52:54.409 --> 00:52:54.690
Roy?
1125
00:52:57.349 --> 00:52:59.929
I think it's either Hogan or Andre the Giant. Let
1126
00:52:59.949 --> 00:53:03.329
me pick one. Sod it. I'll go down in flames
1127
00:53:03.349 --> 00:53:04.050
with him. Hogan.
1128
00:53:04.369 --> 00:53:05.969
Hulk Hogan is correct.
1129
00:53:06.550 --> 00:53:08.710
I thought it was too early for the era of
1130
00:53:08.769 --> 00:53:10.690
The Rock and Grey Mysterio and all.
1131
00:53:10.659 --> 00:53:12.719
That sort of stuff. No, it's Hulk Hogan.
1132
00:53:12.780 --> 00:53:14.320
It wouldn't be Batista or something like that, would it?
1133
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:14.480
No.
1134
00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:18.920
Okay, last question, so we're back to you first, Roy. See,
1135
00:53:18.980 --> 00:53:20.320
I know you're not going to know this one because
1136
00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:23.840
you hate these films, so I apologise. Which British actor
1137
00:53:23.889 --> 00:53:26.710
played the role of Gilderoy Lockhart in Harry Potter and
1138
00:53:26.730 --> 00:53:28.010
the Chamber of Secrets?
1139
00:53:28.289 --> 00:53:29.610
And who's Gilderoy Lockhart?
1140
00:53:29.630 --> 00:53:31.230
Yeah, I knew you were going to say that.
1141
00:53:31.489 --> 00:53:33.159
I don't even know what type of character that is.
1142
00:53:33.170 --> 00:53:34.110
Is it one of the kids?
1143
00:53:34.150 --> 00:53:34.730
He's a teacher.
1144
00:53:35.289 --> 00:53:36.190
He's a teacher? Yeah.
1145
00:53:36.769 --> 00:53:38.849
It's a very Preston-style character, if that helps.
1146
00:53:39.969 --> 00:53:41.969
Matt Berry? You going Matt Berry?
1147
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:43.590
I've got no idea, man.
1148
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:44.619
Okay, that's all right.
1149
00:53:45.369 --> 00:53:45.889
Kenneth Branagh.
1150
00:53:46.250 --> 00:53:50.030
Kenneth Branagh is correct. It's Kenneth Branagh, I'm afraid. Right.
1151
00:53:50.050 --> 00:53:52.469
Don't worry, that's the only Harry Potter question I've got
1152
00:53:52.510 --> 00:53:55.309
on the quiz so far, so don't worry. There we go.
1153
00:53:55.349 --> 00:53:57.170
That is the end of it. So Benton definitely won
1154
00:53:57.230 --> 00:53:58.849
this week. I won last week.
1155
00:53:58.869 --> 00:53:59.570
Well done, Benton.
1156
00:54:00.150 --> 00:54:02.869
I'm going to add it up in the edit. Thank you, everyone,
1157
00:54:02.889 --> 00:54:04.909
for tuning in. Hope you did well on the quiz.
1158
00:54:04.969 --> 00:54:06.260
Feel free to send us a.
1159
00:54:06.250 --> 00:54:06.670
We've lost this.
1160
00:54:06.690 --> 00:54:09.809
I'm going to start a petition to have Rory banned
1161
00:54:09.869 --> 00:54:13.469
from ever being, not only on this show, but anything
1162
00:54:13.510 --> 00:54:17.389
that's for public consumption. at all so you can find
1163
00:54:17.429 --> 00:54:20.750
that at change.org is it if you get a thousand
1164
00:54:20.809 --> 00:54:23.699
signatures they have to debate it in parliament it's way
1165
00:54:23.739 --> 00:54:26.440
more than a thousand oh right ten thousand I think
1166
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:28.139
it is isn't it imagine that.
1167
00:54:28.219 --> 00:54:30.059
And even so they can just say they don't even
1168
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:32.010
have to debate it they can just say no there
1169
00:54:32.030 --> 00:54:34.530
was the stop killing games thing wasn't it and they
1170
00:54:34.570 --> 00:54:36.760
got to the And the one about digital IDs.
1171
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.500
Oh, have we ignored the stock-killing games one?
1172
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:41.360
Yeah, it had to go to Europe.
1173
00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:43.820
Yeah, Europe have taken it really seriously, haven't they?
1174
00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:46.500
Britain basically took one look at it and went, no.
1175
00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:48.840
We went, capitalist hellscape, we'll go for that one.
1176
00:54:49.019 --> 00:54:51.699
Well, they went, same thing with digital IDs, where they went, okay,
1177
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:53.860
we'll bring out digital IDs, and everyone signed the petition
1178
00:54:53.900 --> 00:54:55.780
saying no, and they went, no.
1179
00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:59.219
Well, thank you everyone for tuning in, and we'll see
1180
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:01.550
you next time for more Second Take Cinema.