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Hi,
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you're listening to the Queensland Theatre Quality Time podcast.
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Let me set the scene headed by artistic director Maddie Little Undercover Artists Festival exists to profile and promote outstanding work by performing artists with disability In 2021,
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they were one of the few organizations in the entire world to successfully share an arts festival through numerous COVID updates,
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lockdowns and restrictions.
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Today,
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our Artistic Director Lee Lewis is joined by Maddie and performer/writer of the festival's opening act,
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Oliver Heatherington-Page to discuss just how they proved risky wrong and ended up with a roaring success,
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enjoy.
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Yeah,
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mm hmm.
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Welcome everybody.
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I am lee Lewis,
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I'm the artistic director here at Queensland Theatre and I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Queensland Theatre’s Quality Time podcast.
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I'm here with Maddie and Oliver and I'll hand over to them to introduce themselves.
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And we're going to have a conversation about the Undercover Arts Festival which happened in the Queensland Theatre space.
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How long ago was it now?
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It was over a month,
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a month ago.
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That was the 16th to the 18th of September,
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which is a biennial once every two-year festival that happens in this space that we've been supporting for a while.
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But I'll let Maddie tell you all about it because she is the driving force.
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She is the Artistic Director of the festival and it's been a real pleasure to have the work that you curated in the Bille Brown's space and in the Diane Cilento space for that period of time.
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It's a really special time in our,
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in our year when a huge range of artists come into the building and we get to share the space.
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So hello and welcome to these lands.
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The lands the Yuggera and the Turrbal people.
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We make all of our work on these lands.
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But we look forward to times when we can travel it to lands beyond welcome and thank you for joining me for this fabulous podcast.
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Thank you for having us.
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Thank you for having me and Maddie as well.
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You're welcome Oliver.
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Now we were having a pre conversation to this conversation about how difficult it is to open up the mysterious world of theatre and let people know how it is that we do what we do.
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And Oliver,
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you were talking about when your play was on in the Bill Brown theatre as part of the festival.
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How people had questions for you about how this thing happened.
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It was interesting because we're just having those conversations with friends that came to see the show that like theatre but aren't necessarily theatre people.
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And they were asking,
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oh, the lights were so good,
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how did that come to me?
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And I was like,
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that was 20 conversations between me and my lighting designer of like every moment that you see is 20 choices that we didn't make.
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And I think there's a lack of understanding around that of like for every choice that you make,
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there are 10 choices that are equally good different that we for various reasons,
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chose not to make or if we had the opportunity to do it again in a different space in a different time,
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we might have made a different choice.
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But the circumstances in that moment while we made that choice,
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because that was the right choice for the Bille Brown because originally, I was meant to be in the Diane Cilento
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but do the ticket sales I was which seems like,
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which is a great problem to have but being bumped up to a bigger venue,
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everyone knows the story where you go down to a smaller venue because you haven't sold enough tickets,
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terrible story.
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This is the reverse of that,
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but it meant on a design level,
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the very different spaces and we suddenly with about a month to go head to bump all our tech to a suit that space.
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And that was a big conversation between me,
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my lighting designer,
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our technical team of how do we not sacrifice a show that was designed for a smaller fringe space,
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like the Dyin Celente 90 seats,
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which is 90 seats Into suddenly a theatre that is 300 but also make it bigger but not sacrifice the intimacy of what we wanted when we were designing the show so that those conversations were really interesting and not what people see that question of intimacy.
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The Bille Brown can be intimate,
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but you have to work quite hard technically to make it so and your show,
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which was fabulous fun was also a very personal and was really dependent,
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it feels from an audience point of view on that magic that you created between you and the audience.
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So that personal relationship,
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that intimacy was integral to the success of the work.
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And you knew you could do it in the dance alone toe.
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But your technical support for work so that it can reach in a larger space is huge.
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So sorry,
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sorry about that.
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You're right.
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It is a great problem to have.
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And I'm not going to complain about being able to perform in the Bille Brown,
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but also it was a adjustment that me and my team had to make very quickly.
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I'll say it was also a very big problem for us as the festival team Oliver selling out so quickly.
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And then again,
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when we released more seats,
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it was actually,
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it's all your fault Oliver that you were too popular.
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There are lots of strategic decisions that had to go into conversations with Oliver and I about whether or not you and your team felt like it's something you wanted to do or do we add another show performance in the DCs or he'll just sell that out really quickly too.
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So biggest space.
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And it worked out too because we lost some of our interstate performers due to Covid.
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So tell me as a festival director who's survived in the Covid times.
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What's that been like?
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Um,
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hardly traumatic is a good way to put it.
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But it's also about opportunity really in the end.
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So, you can have these hopes and dreams and then trying to shift your reframe your thinking so that it's not about what you've lost,
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but we have the opportunity to do something different now and respond that was the only way I got through it was with this sense of don't overthink it.
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We just need to make the decisions.
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And so when we knew,
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okay,
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Sarah her bolt,
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who is incredible,
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isn't able to kick off our festival with her show,
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cuckoo the bird girl.
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But Oliver's over here selling out and he's like a local crowd favourite at this point.
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So, he can kick off our festival.
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And that's a really profound opportunity as well to support an emerging artist with his brand-new work that,
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you know,
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that kind of opportunity doesn't normally exist in a festival format.
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So yeah,
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look,
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it was,
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it was a mix of emotions and lots of sleepless nights.
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But we got there in the end, and I say that the applause was awesome and incredible and almost blew my mind a little bit.
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So, I think it was a good choice in the end.
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Absolutely.
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Look as one of the happy audience members sitting there reporting on opening night.
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I thought that that was a great,
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it was a great choice.
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But it was,
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it was also that thing,
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isn't it?
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Of what seems risky.
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It's great when the world proves to you that it's not when you program a work,
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you try and put it in a space that you think is a good fit for it.
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It's lovely when a work blows the roof off the space and bursts out of that smaller space into a bigger one was if you'd been put into the Bille Brown to begin with,
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there's a pressure in that scale which sometimes welcome,
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sometimes not.
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Yeah,
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I look back on it as the artist involved when I came to marry,
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I had a title and a vague concept of I want to use music theatre to talk about autism and a show called the No Bang Theory.
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That was really all that I had and it's matty's faith and like I can see what Oliver is trying to do that even got me the funding to start that ball rolling and I,
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and if I had been told in a year's time you're going to perform this show in the Bille Brown,
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I'd be going,
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no,
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let's abort mission.
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Abort mission Not going to happen but because it was just baby steps every step of the way.
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First it was the 1st 15 minutes.
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Then it was the whole show in the Die in Sorrento.
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And then suddenly it was in the Bille Brown opening the festival,
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the head of the state theatre companies in the front row.
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Sorry about that.
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I don't organize the seating when I saw that,
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I was like,
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oh,
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this is so horrible.
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And I have a seat up the back.
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I never get to sit in the front row.
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That was that was completely my fault too.
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There was a conversation about,
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okay,
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well festival director should sit next to the artistic director of the State Theatre Company,
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but Maddie's access requirements dictate no stairs.
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So, I guess you're in the front of the background.
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I'm sure that front row was better.
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Yeah,
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it's phenomenal.
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You know,
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it was an adjustment of like,
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okay,
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there is no hiding,
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there is no and not that you can hide on stage anyway,
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but you'd like to lie to yourself sometimes and things that you can hide on stage and I'm just doing a show.
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No one's going to know.
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No good.
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Yeah,
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it's a funny thing,
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isn't it?
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When you I mean there must have been and I ask you about that moment where you kind of went,
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oh,
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let me pick up the phone and call Oliver and see if he would like to do this.
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Because there is one thing where you go,
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this is sold and you have to ask the artist if this is something that you want,
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How did that conversation go?
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I mean,
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first of all,
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it was a conversation with myself and our fabulous festival producer Hana Towe because you know,
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we kind of are inseparable almost,
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it's a bit sickening.
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Um,
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but we're quite close.
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And so we,
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we talk almost everything through.
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And when we were like,
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okay,
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look,
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we just have to make the call,
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we just have to cut these interstate artists because we can't risk,
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you know,
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all of these massive touring parties and border restrictions and buying tickets and losing money and all of those things.
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But at the same time,
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the happy point for us was I think Oliver first originally sold out two days after we went on sale and launched our program.
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I mean,
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that's phenomenal.
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And so it's,
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it comes back to that opportunity.
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You know,
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I can't remember if it was Hannah or myself who suggested it,
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but there was a really interesting conversation there about,
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hang on a minute,
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all of us really popular and he's going to smash it.
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We're confident in the quality of his work because we saw the creative development that we supported last year.
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It's going to be hilarious and poignant and beautiful and what an opportunity to put an emerging artist on stage to open the festival.
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And there was a conversation about what it actually sets the tone for the whole festival is that we're putting authentic disabled stories on stage or what better way to do it than with someone talking about his own life and doing it so well and making us all laugh and potentially cry in the process.
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So, thank you for the kind words very well eventually learn how to receive positive affirmation,
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but that day is not today.
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No one is good at taking a compliment dude.
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No one not at all.
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Well,
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what's this now?
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You ran one of the most successful festivals in the world in that time frame,
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if you think about it and so far, as you can put a context about it and say it's in this time,
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but the fact that you were doing a festival at all and a festival inside the festival,
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doubly complicated.
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It has to be celebrated in the scheme of World Theatre in the last two years.
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Were all very good at not looking at the big picture because the big picture when you're in the run up can be quite frightening,
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but a month afterwards.
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What are you most happy about insofar as that most happy about?
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I guess there's,
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I mean there's the relief that we made it and certainly that's something hard and I felt on our closing night,
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we're watching a spike jones and his band play, and I think I had my first proper drink of the entire festival.
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I'm sitting there going,
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oh my gosh,
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we,
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we actually made it through watching the 10 a.m. Press conferences every single day wondering if we'd started festival have to stop.
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But I think there's something really beautiful too about seeing the growth of the festival and getting that momentum going for some of our artists as well.
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So, the fact that all of his show is going to win,
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infringe next is amazing.
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He's going from success to another success.
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I'm complimenting you more and I'm just nodding quietly accepting the compliment.
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Excellent.
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And then we've got some other artists who like Asspy Jones for example,
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he's releasing single after single and he and his band said it was one of the best gigs that he ever played.
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And as we actually saw most of the shows throughout the festival leading up to his own gig and something he reflected on during his performance was the fact that the quality of talent was so incredible,
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but also, to be part of a community feel to know that this is the place where you can make art and you can be,
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you know,
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authentic to yourself in your own stories and tell them in the best way possible,
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that that was reflected so well over the course of the few days,
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I think that's the biggest accomplishment or biggest uh I don't know what the word I'm looking for is success is that we've done something that meant a lot to the artists and then to the community that we serve.
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And then also putting that on stage in such a way that the wider community can see that we actually make really good stuff and the time for underestimating us is well over.
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And I can build on that from my own experience since the festival.
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I've gotten a number of working opportunities,
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not necessarily because of the festival,
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but because I am out there doing this now,
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I can't just be kind of brushed aside.
238
00:13:34,270 --> 00:13:44,100
So, I've been getting access work and doing working with companies to really how can they be the most accessible company as possible.
239
00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:50,090
And that wouldn't have happened before because I wasn't being seen as a disabled artist.
240
00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:54,290
It was that's just Oliver doing what Oliver does talking about.
241
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:58,310
But now it's I know he's respected his getting opportunities.
242
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:59,780
He performed in the Bille Brown theatre.
243
00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:00,130
He's,
244
00:14:00,130 --> 00:14:00,360
you know,
245
00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:01,830
a serious artist.
246
00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:07,090
Now we need to get him on board and because we want to work with him.
247
00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:10,220
And that wouldn't have happened before undercover at festival.
248
00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:21,810
Which is why I think it's a great festival because it creates opportunities that might lead to something else, or it might not and it might go down a completely different path.
249
00:14:21,810 --> 00:14:26,850
But the fact that I had the opportunity in the first instance is a win in and of itself.
250
00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:28,060
Yeah.
251
00:14:28,070 --> 00:14:31,110
So, for people who might not have made it to the festival,
252
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:33,790
but who should be looking to come next year?
253
00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:36,040
But the year after 2023 is the next festival.
254
00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:38,580
Give me an idea of what the scale of it is,
255
00:14:38,580 --> 00:14:41,990
what the ambition of it is and what why people should come in 23.
256
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:42,410
Yeah.
257
00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:42,620
Well,
258
00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:47,650
undercover artist festival exists to profile and promote the outstanding work of artists with disability,
259
00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:50,150
so, and disability that encompasses,
260
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:50,320
you know,
261
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,770
a whole different range of experiences.
262
00:14:51,770 --> 00:14:52,430
We're talking death,
263
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:53,180
we're talking disable,
264
00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:54,790
we're talking chronically ill,
265
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:55,480
mentally ill,
266
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:55,710
you know,
267
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,890
all of these things that perhaps,
268
00:14:57,900 --> 00:14:58,310
you know,
269
00:14:58,310 --> 00:15:01,150
people caught up with what is disability as an identity,
270
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:01,360
you know,
271
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,560
don't worry about all of that.
272
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:04,340
It's just putting work on stage,
273
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:06,730
that's really phenomenal and it's about the performing arts.
274
00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:07,540
So, it's music,
275
00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:07,990
dance,
276
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:08,400
theatre,
277
00:15:08,410 --> 00:15:08,940
comedy,
278
00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:09,830
poetry,
279
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,240
I don't think I've missed anything cabaret circus,
280
00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:16,450
I have missed things and so much more and you know,
281
00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:22,580
sometimes a combination of all of these things like Oliver combining cabaret and musical theatre and quite a bit of comedy if I do say so.
282
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:23,420
Um,
283
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:25,780
this year it was originally meant to be four days,
284
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:26,820
it turned out to be three.
285
00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:27,550
Thanks, Covid.
286
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:28,620
But that's okay.
287
00:15:28,630 --> 00:15:30,690
We had three tracks to the festival,
288
00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:36,160
we had a career track which is existed to provide workshop opportunities,
289
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,760
professional development for artists with disability who,
290
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:39,770
you know,
291
00:15:39,770 --> 00:15:43,580
you can't access the same opportunities elsewhere because they're just not accessible.
292
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:44,550
And part of that,
293
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:51,020
we partnered with arts access Australia to bring their meeting place for him to what was meant to be to Brisbane.
294
00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:51,390
But again,
295
00:15:51,390 --> 00:15:52,240
Covid change plans,
296
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:52,990
but it was virtual,
297
00:15:52,990 --> 00:15:56,930
We hosted it and it was great and then there's community tracks.
298
00:15:56,930 --> 00:16:04,540
So, thinking about the community choirs and theatre dance ensembles that we're all familiar with probably when we think of disability arts,
299
00:16:04,540 --> 00:16:18,830
we think of those groups and then we have the creative track, and it was really important to me and to the whole festival that the creative track focused on disability led professional standard work.
300
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:26,930
And when we say professional standard were aware of the fact that a lot of our artists may not have had that opportunity to present professional standard work,
301
00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:31,070
but it's about challenging what the professional standard even looks like.
302
00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:33,730
If we only see abled bodies on stage,
303
00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:35,430
we're going to think that that's professional,
304
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:39,630
but there's nothing unprofessional about a disabled body on the same stage,
305
00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:42,730
in the same lighting with the same sound and etcetera etcetera.
306
00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:43,820
So yeah,
307
00:16:43,820 --> 00:16:45,670
we had all of this phenomenal show.
308
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:49,560
We had Lauren Watson's incredible aerial theatre work nerve.
309
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,650
She'd been working on it for a few years.
310
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,100
We had Andy Snelling our soul interstate artist.
311
00:16:55,100 --> 00:17:03,070
We took a risk with a one person touring party to come up from Adelaide and she blew us away with her incredible theatre work.
312
00:17:03,070 --> 00:17:03,820
Happy go wrong.
313
00:17:03,820 --> 00:17:08,580
Which had clowning and verbatim theatre elements and it was just really beautiful.
314
00:17:08,590 --> 00:17:09,240
Oh my gosh,
315
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,060
I could talk forever.
316
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:13,110
The podcast would just be me raving about every single artist.
317
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:16,050
It's happened a couple of times where you talked about Oliver,
318
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:19,290
you talked about 15 minutes in the conversation,
319
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:21,760
the conversation with Maddie that started it all.
320
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,600
How long did it take you to make that show?
321
00:17:24,610 --> 00:17:30,270
I started that in the height of Covid last year,
322
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:47,310
that access arts and undercover artists were doing a grant program for a mentor ship program, and I received $2000 to develop that 1st 15 minutes with Alex Woodward,
323
00:17:47,310 --> 00:17:54,740
a Brisbane based music theatre producer person that being the technical tent,
324
00:17:54,750 --> 00:18:20,170
check it on your cv Alex and he came on board very early to mentor me through the producing side of it and we also at that stage got onboard louis jones who was a Brisbane based director and he came on board and really helped Finesse that 15 minutes of the show and that was presented at undercover artists online,
325
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:28,770
which Maddie could probably talk more about at some point during this discussion and from there,
326
00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:30,560
Maddie was very kind to say,
327
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:34,720
hey we're doing a in person version next year,
328
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:37,580
do you want to come on board?
329
00:18:37,580 --> 00:18:38,750
And I said yes,
330
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,960
of course I do,
331
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:41,960
let me figure out how to pay for it.
332
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,960
And I was very lucky,
333
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:47,140
I apply tarts Queensland,
334
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:53,300
I got some cost funding for that and so I was able to keep Alex on board,
335
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:59,160
I was able to keep loss on board and I was able to hire my music teacher,
336
00:18:59,170 --> 00:19:01,500
timothy Forrester as a music director.
337
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:02,240
Music designer,
338
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:12,610
was able to hire Freddie comp as lighting and sound designer and I was able to get a big team on board to do my show,
339
00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:15,280
which is not a simple show,
340
00:19:15,290 --> 00:19:20,050
it can we just very quickly because all of us being humble,
341
00:19:20,050 --> 00:19:21,560
how much funding did you get?
342
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,250
$25 and correct me if I'm wrong.
343
00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:25,970
Wasn't this your first grant application?
344
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:27,500
It was my first application.
345
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:29,060
Just throwing that out there.
346
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:32,480
That Oliver in his first grant application for his first solo show,
347
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:33,590
first out of uni,
348
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:34,510
is that correct?
349
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:40,070
First started because I graduated in 2019 and then the world change.
350
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,140
But I think it's,
351
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:55,930
it's absolutely testament to all of the skill and capability and then I think also to the fact that there was an opportunity presented for an accessible development situation program that helped not enable you to do it because you have the capacity to do it all along.
352
00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:59,070
But I kind of just nudge you along a little bit gently.
353
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:05,820
Every artist needs nudges and support in different ways and it's acknowledging that the needs are different across every artist,
354
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:17,160
but that there any making of a new work is its petrifying and I don't write because I'm not that brave imagine making and then being in the work,
355
00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:25,650
but creating something out of nothing where there was no show to go from a zero to a fully produced and successful work.
356
00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:29,790
That's an extraordinary journey for every artist and every artist will have different needs,
357
00:20:29,790 --> 00:20:36,670
but actually a path that actually is tailored to the needs of artists is incredibly important and without it,
358
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,650
people can't make those next steps you were talking about.
359
00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:41,100
And I'm sorry,
360
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:42,720
I don't know the name of the artist from Adelaide.
361
00:20:42,730 --> 00:20:44,300
And you're smelling well,
362
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:48,850
that question about a work that takes has taken many years to produce.
363
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:51,750
Every work takes its own time.
364
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:59,380
You had a year under particular Covid circumstances in a regular year where all your time when it's different,
365
00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:02,960
it might not have come two full shape within a year.
366
00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:03,690
And the thing is,
367
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,530
I don't think I could have made that show before Covid.
368
00:21:07,540 --> 00:21:14,770
I jokingly said I want to do an autism musical cabaret thing at some 20.4 years and years and years.
369
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,560
But it was during Covid when everything was paused and everything was shut down.
370
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:31,270
I was finally able to reflect on where I am now and all the things that have happened to me throughout my life and put it in a larger context.
371
00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:39,860
But I wouldn't have been able to do that if we hadn't been shut down because it forces us to reflect.
372
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,210
And it was that reflection that I had that light bulb moment of,
373
00:21:44,220 --> 00:21:44,880
oh no,
374
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,010
this is a musical with a beginning a middle and an end.
375
00:21:49,010 --> 00:21:54,560
And the kind of arc of it only happened because I was nothing else was happening.
376
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:56,090
That in real life,
377
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,920
you're constantly moving and life is happening.
378
00:21:58,930 --> 00:22:01,350
So you're not noticing the narrative forming.
379
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:02,360
Yeah,
380
00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:04,000
so it's good that life stopped happening.
381
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,760
So the story of your life could happen.
382
00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:07,640
Well,
383
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:07,810
look,
384
00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:10,030
there are all sorts of strange covid silver linings.
385
00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:17,740
And I think again in the myriad of stories that different artists will have this last period of time we've lost some artists from the industry,
386
00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:18,360
they've gone just,
387
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:18,460
no,
388
00:22:18,460 --> 00:22:19,210
this is too hard.
389
00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:23,530
But then other artists have found their way in in a way it's been an extraordinary time.
390
00:22:23,530 --> 00:22:28,530
So I think it's going to take the world a few years to recover and reflect.
391
00:22:28,530 --> 00:22:31,910
And then the next wave of work that comes from this time I'm really interested in.
392
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,270
Absolutely,
393
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:33,670
I just,
394
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,930
I've heard whisperings and mumblings from different colleagues are like,
395
00:22:36,940 --> 00:22:37,390
oh,
396
00:22:37,390 --> 00:22:38,530
what are you working on?
397
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:39,180
Oh,
398
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:40,550
this hint of an idea.
399
00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:41,370
It could be really,
400
00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,030
really great at what stages are going to be on in three years time.
401
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,830
All of this magical connections and networking,
402
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:49,420
but also brainstorming,
403
00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:54,330
that just happens over zoom because you're trapped in your house or whatever.
404
00:22:54,340 --> 00:23:07,260
But it's interesting and thinking back to last year where everything was online realizing the extraordinary amount of access that people who in the past maybe hadn't been able to make it in the theatre into the theatre.
405
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:11,230
Those conversations were really quite mind boggling for me where people are saying,
406
00:23:11,230 --> 00:23:11,380
no,
407
00:23:11,380 --> 00:23:13,810
this is the first time I've actually been able to engage.
408
00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:14,760
Oh,
409
00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:21,420
so how do we keep this channel of communication and engagement open rather than it being a well,
410
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:21,650
yes,
411
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:22,930
it was a product of the time,
412
00:23:22,930 --> 00:23:23,850
but you kind of go,
413
00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:27,060
it actually should be a way that we communicate all the time.
414
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:27,860
Absolutely,
415
00:23:27,870 --> 00:23:28,670
absolutely.
416
00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:33,350
We were so hoping and wishing and praying that we could have an online component to the festival this year.
417
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:35,660
And for a number of different reasons it wasn't feasible.
418
00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:38,620
But that's something we're definitely looking to because it's twice as much work,
419
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:39,130
twice,
420
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:40,600
twice as much money.
421
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:41,530
Yeah,
422
00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:42,960
it's,
423
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:43,430
yes,
424
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:43,810
yes.
425
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:45,930
So we've got to find the money to do that.
426
00:23:45,940 --> 00:23:48,250
But what's interesting is that we've all gone,
427
00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:48,670
oh no,
428
00:23:48,670 --> 00:23:56,330
we have to because just the sheer accessibility have crossed across time and space for people has been amazing.
429
00:23:56,330 --> 00:24:00,460
And I've spoken to a number of disabled people about this for years and years,
430
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:10,520
they were saying I can work but I can't do the 9-5 in the office thing that was required and can I work from home,
431
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,820
can I do zoom in or not?
432
00:24:12,820 --> 00:24:13,580
That we had soon,
433
00:24:13,580 --> 00:24:16,030
but Skype or you know,
434
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,060
video conferencing and employees were always,
435
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,110
oh no,
436
00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:36,930
we have to have the 9 to 5 office things and then suddenly Covid forced everyone to up skill even though this is what disabled people have been doing long before covid,
437
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:40,430
but they needed everyone else to up skill essentially.
438
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:40,780
Yeah,
439
00:24:40,780 --> 00:24:41,140
I was like,
440
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:44,230
come on guys like I'm used to this already Tiktok hurry up.
441
00:24:44,240 --> 00:25:04,740
But having been in a company that had to go from everybody feeling fairly computer literate the freak out when everybody said they had to log into an unfamiliar thing and how do I do this because people pride themselves in seem incompetent and no one seemed competent in the first two weeks and soon we're all going,
442
00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:08,330
it was comic really.
443
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:21,320
But that happened across the country across the world that suddenly people who didn't have to use that tool before had to become competent in it very quickly and we did and the tool got better.
444
00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:21,910
Yes.
445
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,390
Poor little guys who invented zoom.
446
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:25,090
I felt a bit sorry for them and suddenly everyone's going,
447
00:25:25,090 --> 00:25:25,200
well,
448
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,330
it doesn't do this and it doesn't do this.
449
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:32,040
It was like it was a failing company before coverage and suddenly it was the way we survived.
450
00:25:32,050 --> 00:25:32,350
So,
451
00:25:32,350 --> 00:25:32,710
you know,
452
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,270
I hope they're sitting on a beach somewhere going having a month off and going home.
453
00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:38,050
Maybe the pressure can start to ease off a bit.
454
00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:42,020
But that became really interesting.
455
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:48,610
That question of what that communication space is what it allows and so what's been missing before?
456
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:49,230
Yes,
457
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,170
Yeah,
458
00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:50,950
absolutely.
459
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:55,680
We can't go back nor can we afford to do it completely at the same time.
460
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,360
Exactly.
461
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:57,570
So we're figuring out the money,
462
00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:59,390
we're in the days of figuring out the money,
463
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,210
the money side of things is horrific.
464
00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:02,650
I mean,
465
00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:03,410
that's the other thing.
466
00:26:03,410 --> 00:26:03,600
You know,
467
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,060
a lot of what happened and what was able to happen during Covid happened because if she had goodwill people desperate for connection,
468
00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,600
we just found ways to connect.
469
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:16,940
We found ways to make work and I know I was writing was trying to write a show,
470
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:17,950
a couple of different artists,
471
00:26:17,950 --> 00:26:22,340
friends of mine through zoom and we weren't getting paid to do it.
472
00:26:22,340 --> 00:26:25,830
We were just doing it because we had time and we had to do something.
473
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:27,210
We had to stay creative.
474
00:26:27,220 --> 00:26:28,230
But now,
475
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:28,720
okay,
476
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:37,700
how do we transition into a sustainable method of working and a sustainable audience development strategy through making it work accessible online,
477
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:41,700
through inviting people in and seeing what we do and how we do it.
478
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,810
And there's no quick fix or easy answer.
479
00:26:43,810 --> 00:26:48,420
But it goes back to that whole thing about what Oliver's saying,
480
00:26:48,430 --> 00:26:53,200
there are 20 questions or 20 decisions that are made before you can get to that final one.
481
00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:59,270
It's the same thing with how do we continue that accessibility trajectory for the work that we make.
482
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,060
And the thing about the money side of theatre is one of the things that most people don't see.
483
00:27:04,060 --> 00:27:12,350
Like for the longest time I was coming to see shows here or at the bar or any of the myriad of other companies doing amazing work in Brisbane.
484
00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:15,200
And I just had a good time at the theatre.
485
00:27:15,210 --> 00:27:18,130
I was a general audience human.
486
00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:29,150
And it was only when I was getting to uni and meeting the people that were making that work and they were telling me the horror stories of what is going on behind the scenes where I'm going,
487
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,170
I mean I saw that show,
488
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,860
I either liked it or didn't like it depending on whatever the show was.
489
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,050
And to hear that feedback of what was going on behind the scenes somehow made that show.
490
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:55,010
Even if I really didn't like it at the time that I saw it fascinating because there's so many choices and so much like the money behind it and the things behind it,
491
00:27:55,020 --> 00:28:00,910
it's more complicated than we can ever see on stage and the audience shouldn't see that.
492
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,540
Yeah.
493
00:28:01,550 --> 00:28:01,940
You know,
494
00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:02,870
they really shouldn't,
495
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:09,920
they should just be able to go and have their night where our job is to inspire and challenge and entertain them.
496
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:10,210
You know,
497
00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:10,520
they,
498
00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:13,990
it's about them on that night shouldn't be sitting there going,
499
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:14,060
oh,
500
00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:16,380
that fight carrier was probably about two grand.
501
00:28:16,390 --> 00:28:18,620
You shouldn't be able to cost out What?
502
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:20,830
Although it's sometimes fun to do that.
503
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:24,760
I did a show once where we had to have a beautiful dress trashed each night.
504
00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:29,330
It must have been coloured Dunnegan donated address.
505
00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:36,510
This thing came out and it turns out it was made with something that could be washed in the washing machine and she gave us two.
506
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,990
So this thing and it was the new season stuff.
507
00:28:38,990 --> 00:28:46,170
So there were all these like society women looking at this thing and they knew exactly how much that dress cost and we were trashing it each night and they were horrified.
508
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:48,340
So sometimes it can work in your favourite,
509
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:49,830
but most of the time,
510
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:50,160
No,
511
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,950
I mean at the moment we've got returned to the dirt on stage,
512
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:54,040
which is deep in his play.
513
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:54,970
It's phenomenal.
514
00:28:56,380 --> 00:28:58,170
It's the recycled play,
515
00:28:58,540 --> 00:28:59,630
the challenge with this,
516
00:28:59,630 --> 00:28:59,830
you know,
517
00:28:59,830 --> 00:29:04,200
in the scheme of a year where things are a bit tight and we've had a couple of like we had Boy swallows Universe,
518
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,780
which was incredibly expensive is what it is.
519
00:29:06,790 --> 00:29:12,070
But the way I snuck in a different one is by keeping the budget super low because Renee Mulder said,
520
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,870
I'll make it out of stuff that's already there.
521
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,650
So we've pillaged,
522
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:18,540
you could actually have proper bingo.
523
00:29:18,550 --> 00:29:21,260
There are things from so many different plays,
524
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:21,930
costumes.
525
00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:27,350
A lot of the costumes apart from the suits of the funeral directors were just in stock here.
526
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:34,660
We have storage here of things that we haven't used from other shows and like the all of the golfing stuff.
527
00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:36,850
They don't own all of that.
528
00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:42,800
So we find tricky ways as a big theatre company to save money and cut corners in cost.
529
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:44,070
But yeah,
530
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,790
it's a terribly expensive thing that we do.
531
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:54,180
One of my favourite quotes that I think about in this conversation is no one leaves the theatre humming the scenery that look,
532
00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:54,710
I don't know.
533
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:57,870
Sometimes there's some fab scenery.
534
00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:58,220
I look,
535
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:58,890
I actually,
536
00:29:58,890 --> 00:29:59,880
I would dispute that.
537
00:29:59,890 --> 00:30:04,330
But what I think about when I think about that quote is what you're talking about.
538
00:30:04,330 --> 00:30:07,000
If someone is coming out of the show going,
539
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:10,100
that was some expensive scenery.
540
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:10,660
It's true.
541
00:30:10,670 --> 00:30:13,300
You don't want that to be the primary comment.
542
00:30:13,310 --> 00:30:15,770
That's saying that they didn't,
543
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:19,570
if they're talking about those periphery things,
544
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:22,270
then whatever the show was trying to say.
545
00:30:22,340 --> 00:30:22,780
Yeah,
546
00:30:22,780 --> 00:30:26,390
I know the conversation should be about what the show was trying to say.
547
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,610
The conversation should be about what matters inside it,
548
00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:30,570
not how we've made it.
549
00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:31,130
It's true.
550
00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:36,040
Like I loved returned to the dirt and my conversations are about what it says about.
551
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,760
Yes.
552
00:30:36,770 --> 00:30:37,240
Yes.
553
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,840
And not about the gulf costumes about,
554
00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:41,600
although they were excellent.
555
00:30:41,610 --> 00:30:41,980
Yes,
556
00:30:41,980 --> 00:30:43,290
completely free.
557
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:43,600
Yeah.
558
00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:45,670
That picture didn't cost a sense.
559
00:30:45,670 --> 00:30:49,750
So what I'm hearing is that the highest cost of the budget with consumables,
560
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:52,030
meaning the popcorn that Steve eats on states.
561
00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:53,110
A lot of popcorn.
562
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:53,460
Okay.
563
00:30:53,530 --> 00:30:55,040
I was wondering popcorn.
564
00:30:55,050 --> 00:30:56,580
I was wondering about that because I was like,
565
00:30:56,580 --> 00:30:57,620
hang on a minute,
566
00:30:57,630 --> 00:30:59,880
but it doesn't seem to be a lot left in that bag.
567
00:30:59,890 --> 00:31:02,320
He goes through a bag of popcorn a night.
568
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,590
That is an expensive artists.
569
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:04,110
There you go.
570
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,090
So now we know the inner workings returned to the dirt.
571
00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:10,760
It's the popcorn expect there's a popcorn and a biscuit.
572
00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:11,260
Ah,
573
00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:11,650
yes.
574
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,140
It's biscuit I saw and I was like,
575
00:31:14,150 --> 00:31:14,380
oh,
576
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:17,270
I could really go for a short red cream right now.
577
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,750
That's the benefit of sitting in the front row.
578
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,020
You see the exact well,
579
00:31:21,030 --> 00:31:22,560
that's what I love about that space.
580
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,980
And you talk about the confronting thing.
581
00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:26,690
If your artistic happens to be sitting in the front row,
582
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:34,590
when you make a show in a venue like that you're making for the front row people a slightly different show to the back row people,
583
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,830
you've got to have enough big picture for the story to play up the back,
584
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,180
but you've also got to offer some details to the front row and the detail matters.
585
00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:45,000
You can't get away with anything in that space.
586
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,080
It is as you know,
587
00:31:46,090 --> 00:31:46,440
Oliver,
588
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,080
it's so close because people can see what biscuit goes into the mouth.
589
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:51,570
You kind of go,
590
00:31:51,570 --> 00:31:52,620
it's easy to eat.
591
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:54,570
Some of those are honest biscuits,
592
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:55,150
easy to,
593
00:31:55,150 --> 00:31:55,400
to.
594
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,870
But you know,
595
00:31:55,870 --> 00:31:57,750
you had a short one of the shortbread ones,
596
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:58,910
that's a lot of dry biscuit.
597
00:31:58,910 --> 00:32:04,580
I was counting the crumbs coming out of the mental as he says,
598
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:05,920
a few fabulous lines.
599
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,390
So I was like,
600
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:06,660
oh,
601
00:32:06,660 --> 00:32:07,960
that was about seven crime.
602
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:09,300
Yeah,
603
00:32:09,310 --> 00:32:13,860
It's also phenomenal though to that space and the versatility of it,
604
00:32:13,940 --> 00:32:17,330
knowing how many different shows can be brought to life in that space.
605
00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:17,910
You go,
606
00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:18,550
The Bille Brown.
607
00:32:18,550 --> 00:32:18,790
Okay,
608
00:32:18,790 --> 00:32:19,830
it's a corner stage,
609
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:20,370
That's great.
610
00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:21,200
What does that mean?
611
00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:23,370
How many different stories do you tell?
612
00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:23,700
I mean,
613
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:27,440
I think about what we were able to do with undercover artist festival and go,
614
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,750
this is so different to a Queensland theatre mainstage.
615
00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:32,000
But oh my goodness,
616
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,390
it's a very welcoming spaces.
617
00:32:33,390 --> 00:32:34,500
Such a welcoming space.
618
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,060
You can make it your own.
619
00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:38,010
What's it like standing on the stage?
620
00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:39,780
It was when I first went in,
621
00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:40,070
I'm like,
622
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:40,640
oh my God,
623
00:32:40,650 --> 00:32:43,140
I as a single person on this stage,
624
00:32:43,150 --> 00:32:52,080
I'm going to like felt for a while that I was just going to melt in that space because it's a big space,
625
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,700
but it's also an intimate space and finding that balance.
626
00:32:54,710 --> 00:33:03,830
But thanks to the work of louis jones who did an amazing job creating the world through simple set,
627
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,850
but it's really just a couple of placards,
628
00:33:06,980 --> 00:33:11,050
costume coat rack and a chair and a table,
629
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:14,560
but that creates the world of the thing.
630
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,900
And so then I'm in the world of that and I'm not in the Bille Brown space anymore.
631
00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:25,310
And that was comforting and it was overwhelming,
632
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:32,560
but also an amazing opportunity because I've been coming to this space for so long and as an emerging artist,
633
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,700
you dream of getting onto that stage and then to be there.
634
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:38,640
It was a gift,
635
00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:42,120
but also a terrifying things simultaneously.
636
00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:43,190
It's an interesting one though,
637
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:43,830
it doesn't fight,
638
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:44,640
you know,
639
00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:49,100
it's not because you're straight the audience when they see the walls,
640
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:50,270
they're not that far away.
641
00:33:50,270 --> 00:33:52,530
It's not a mysterious cavern of a space,
642
00:33:52,540 --> 00:33:56,340
not in the same way about the playhouses that can be that can be really,
643
00:33:56,350 --> 00:33:58,150
it's a lovely love love for you as well.
644
00:33:58,150 --> 00:33:59,020
But so big.
645
00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:01,380
You wonder how far it goes backstage.
646
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:01,880
You go,
647
00:34:01,890 --> 00:34:02,220
look,
648
00:34:02,220 --> 00:34:04,380
I know the river is somewhere around here,
649
00:34:04,390 --> 00:34:06,000
but I'm not too sure.
650
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,920
I need a compass.
651
00:34:06,930 --> 00:34:10,430
But when you're standing centre stage and the Bill Brown,
652
00:34:10,430 --> 00:34:13,490
you can almost see the eyes of the people in the background,
653
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:15,550
which means that they can see yours.
654
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,680
So all your subtext is very present.
655
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:19,050
Good.
656
00:34:19,050 --> 00:34:22,850
We have this conversation after all of it.
657
00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:25,160
Have we had this conversation before hand?
658
00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:26,770
Yeah,
659
00:34:26,780 --> 00:34:28,910
it would be a very different show.
660
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,610
But I've gotten a very panicked phone call.
661
00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:30,950
Yes.
662
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:32,930
You would have definitely gotten a very panicked phone.
663
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,810
But it's interesting artists work towards a particular space.
664
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:39,210
You know,
665
00:34:39,210 --> 00:34:40,580
I'd love to do that.
666
00:34:40,590 --> 00:34:42,300
And it then takes time.
667
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:42,680
Like you said,
668
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:51,300
you talked for years about wanting to do to do your show or version of your show and then the time happens and you kind of becomes inevitable at a certain point.
669
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,590
And then circumstances mean that you're there.
670
00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:54,170
Now,
671
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,760
now there's no stopping you.
672
00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:59,040
I believe that some stories almost demand to be told,
673
00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:59,450
right?
674
00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:00,210
The nuggets,
675
00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:04,030
they rise up and they have to rise.
676
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,410
It's hard to force the story.
677
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:05,800
Yes.
678
00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:06,610
Oh,
679
00:35:06,850 --> 00:35:08,340
as an artistic director,
680
00:35:08,350 --> 00:35:11,320
you find that you're talking to people and they want to,
681
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,530
but you can you feel sometimes that they're not quite ready.
682
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:15,300
Absolutely.
683
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:21,340
And sometimes they want to be encouraged ahead of their readiness and sometimes they actually don't.
684
00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:27,630
and sometimes I might be dragging behind a little bit and you just have to go now the idea is great,
685
00:35:27,630 --> 00:35:28,220
come on.
686
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:28,820
You know,
687
00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:29,630
we can do this,
688
00:35:29,630 --> 00:35:30,450
we can do this together.
689
00:35:30,450 --> 00:35:32,330
I mean the whole process of programming,
690
00:35:32,330 --> 00:35:39,300
the festival was quite well because we had an expressions of interest period and we had a couple of different artists that I reached out to like Oliver and you know,
691
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:41,860
in all of this case I had to because I saw the development,
692
00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:42,250
I was like,
693
00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:42,750
no,
694
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,210
like that is that is something that belongs in this festival.
695
00:35:46,210 --> 00:35:46,860
We need this,
696
00:35:46,860 --> 00:35:54,950
it says something really important and I believe in this work and this artist and then you look at some of the expressions of interest and you go like this artist does phenomenal work.
697
00:35:54,950 --> 00:36:02,200
But this idea doesn't feel like the right opportunity for this festival and it's really hard to let go of some of those because you go,
698
00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:02,710
oh,
699
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:06,450
that that particular show would work great at the powerhouse for example,
700
00:36:06,530 --> 00:36:18,210
in its cultural hub space probably on the turbine platform where anyone could walk in and out as opposed to a corner stage at the State Theatre company and it's really tough.
701
00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:20,250
You feel like you're breaking hearts along the way,
702
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:22,060
but at the same time,
703
00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:22,400
you know,
704
00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:36,140
I would much rather brake carts by trying to serve the work as it demands to be served and told rather than use the work for your own ends in building exactly at the expense of the artist or that work Exactly.
705
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:36,660
Exactly.
706
00:36:36,660 --> 00:36:40,720
I don't like the term setting people up to fail because I don't think that's it.
707
00:36:40,730 --> 00:36:45,840
But I do think that there's something about what we're trying to do is profile and promote outstanding work.
708
00:36:46,030 --> 00:36:50,050
Then we have to support outstanding work the way that it should be presented.
709
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:52,380
Not the way that I you know,
710
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:52,640
I mean,
711
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,040
I'm an artist myself.
712
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,010
I can't go to Oliver and go,
713
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:55,400
you know what,
714
00:36:55,410 --> 00:36:56,870
I would have done it differently.
715
00:36:56,870 --> 00:37:00,840
I would have changed this set element or I would that's not what the story is about.
716
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,600
It's not the No Bang Theory featuring Madeline Little.
717
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,950
It's Oliver Heatherington-Page and he deserves to tell his story the way that he needs to.
718
00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:10,230
So yeah,
719
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:10,430
look,
720
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:14,240
it's but there are sleepless nights involved and I'm sure you'd have the same thing where you go,
721
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:19,400
how do you piece works together and even just works that are brilliant,
722
00:37:19,410 --> 00:37:23,540
but don't fit alongside the four others that kills me.
723
00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:29,040
But then sometimes when there are works that are similar because people stories rise up in a time,
724
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,490
right?
725
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:33,750
And sometimes people are trying to tell similar stories,
726
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,850
it's particular to them.
727
00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:38,790
But from an audience on the outside point of view,
728
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:50,940
they can seem too similar and that would be to the detriment of both are so saying no to one because if you take a gamble that the other one will work more in this time and that just,
729
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:51,220
I mean,
730
00:37:51,330 --> 00:37:51,780
you know,
731
00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:52,830
look,
732
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,340
I love being an artistic director,
733
00:37:54,340 --> 00:37:55,440
don't get me wrong,
734
00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:58,460
but most of my job is saying no to people.
735
00:37:58,730 --> 00:38:02,100
We program eight shows a year here at Queensland here,
736
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:04,310
that's only eight s is yeah,
737
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,830
there's a lot of knows how did you manage that?
738
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,430
There was there was a fair amount of,
739
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,980
I don't know if trepidation is the right word.
740
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:17,950
I had to go in with an excitement for what the festival would be.
741
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:18,660
So,
742
00:38:18,670 --> 00:38:20,160
in looking at the bigger picture,
743
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,150
I had to go,
744
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:21,880
okay,
745
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:28,270
I can choose to spend my time really grieving the works that we lose or that aren't ready yet,
746
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,620
or I can go in with the knowledge that these artists,
747
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:36,310
there are other ways that we can support them and perhaps by putting certain shows on stage,
748
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,980
they see that are inspired by it,
749
00:38:38,980 --> 00:38:40,050
are influenced by it,
750
00:38:40,050 --> 00:38:45,830
or they can join in our professional development opportunities or even just have a chat about.
751
00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:48,340
I was a big fan of works that I really,
752
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:48,890
really wanted,
753
00:38:48,890 --> 00:38:55,660
but I had to say no to a really thoughtful s a of a rejection email just outlining why?
754
00:38:55,670 --> 00:39:00,330
Because I think it's really important for artists to also know that they're not being,
755
00:39:00,340 --> 00:39:04,410
we're not saying no to the artists were saying no to this particular opportunity.
756
00:39:04,420 --> 00:39:05,120
And,
757
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:05,380
you know,
758
00:39:05,380 --> 00:39:06,890
one of the works in particular,
759
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:09,380
my heart actually broke quite a bit,
760
00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:12,080
but it was a very intimate performance.
761
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:12,610
Are,
762
00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:12,890
you know,
763
00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:19,890
one on one experience where we basically needed the whole festival to put it on and across that whole festival,
764
00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:21,920
only 30 people would experience it.
765
00:39:21,930 --> 00:39:24,820
And we had too many concerns around logistics,
766
00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:26,260
space ticketing,
767
00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:28,840
covid safe protocols,
768
00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:30,060
that it just was like,
769
00:39:30,070 --> 00:39:30,650
oh,
770
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,330
my heart breaks.
771
00:39:32,340 --> 00:39:34,440
I want to be part of this work.
772
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,630
I want to be a participant in this intimate experience,
773
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:37,990
but we can't make it happen.
774
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,650
How do we make sure that that door stays open to that artist who is doing incredible things.
775
00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:44,370
So,
776
00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:45,040
I don't know,
777
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:54,120
there are lots of different elements and I think there's also a heavier weight involved knowing that in the performing arts there are so few opportunities for deaf and disabled artists.
778
00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:54,960
So I have,
779
00:39:54,970 --> 00:39:56,780
I have to say no to them.
780
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:58,060
It is,
781
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:00,670
it's a little bit upsetting because I go,
782
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,630
I know how hard you work and how few opportunities are available.
783
00:40:06,210 --> 00:40:08,490
I don't want this to feel like another door shut.
784
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:14,040
I want it to be a different door is opening on a different path or a different opportunity.
785
00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:19,910
And that possibly a lot of that comes from being a disabled artist myself and being on the receiving end of those nose.
786
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:20,910
Oh Maddie,
787
00:40:20,910 --> 00:40:24,900
you'll never work in the arts unless you fix the way you walk.
788
00:40:24,910 --> 00:40:25,360
I'm like,
789
00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:26,030
okay,
790
00:40:26,110 --> 00:40:26,330
I mean,
791
00:40:26,330 --> 00:40:28,480
that person had to watch me do my opening speech,
792
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:29,360
the festival.
793
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,490
So that was that was a nice,
794
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:31,020
uh,
795
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:31,240
you know,
796
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:32,280
full circle moment.
797
00:40:32,290 --> 00:40:32,970
Little winds,
798
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:34,080
little winds.
799
00:40:34,090 --> 00:40:34,520
I was like,
800
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:34,730
oh,
801
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:35,690
you're keeping your head down,
802
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:36,520
not talking to me,
803
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:36,980
that's fine.
804
00:40:36,990 --> 00:40:39,480
But that's the sort of thing that I heard.
805
00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:40,660
And if I'm hearing it,
806
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:42,940
so many other people would be hearing it too.
807
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:46,770
I can certainly say I experienced a lot of it definitely during university as well.
808
00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:47,480
I studied a B.
809
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:47,640
F.
810
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:56,920
A in drama and that program is set up for a certain type of body and a certain type of mind and how they make theatre and my body was not that body.
811
00:40:56,930 --> 00:41:04,350
So how do I say no to someone who's had that experience whilst also welcoming them in.
812
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,740
It's a very tricky balance and I haven't perfected it.
813
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:10,610
But I've also had the benefit of Brisbane Festival.
814
00:41:10,610 --> 00:41:12,240
Artistic Director Louise Bezzina,
815
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,950
she's been my mentor through the process.
816
00:41:13,950 --> 00:41:17,460
And so it's been really helpful just having someone going to your instincts are right,
817
00:41:17,470 --> 00:41:18,530
you can keep going.
818
00:41:18,910 --> 00:41:19,670
It's okay.
819
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:20,700
It's unfortunate,
820
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:22,540
but we just have to do the best we can.
821
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:26,520
And you talk about similar shows existing.
822
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,220
I know of a work based out of Melbourne called the Asspy Hour,
823
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:33,230
which is a very similar work to mind.
824
00:41:33,230 --> 00:41:34,980
They're both autism,
825
00:41:34,990 --> 00:41:35,500
music,
826
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:35,920
theatre,
827
00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:40,330
cabarets kind of stuff and I haven't seen the work.
828
00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:43,550
I've only heard wonderful things about this work.
829
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:50,330
And they reached out to me in the lead up to the festival and said that I think they said that they'd applied.
830
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:51,080
Yes,
831
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,050
they had for this festival and it didn't work out,
832
00:41:55,050 --> 00:41:56,860
but they were super congratulatory.
833
00:41:56,860 --> 00:41:57,430
And I,
834
00:41:58,110 --> 00:42:05,730
my heart breaks for those artists because I want to see that work because I as an autistic artist that loves music,
835
00:42:05,730 --> 00:42:06,050
theatre,
836
00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:08,960
I want to see autistic music theatre performances.
837
00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:10,670
So I want to see it.
838
00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:14,010
But I understand from a Maddie business perspective,
839
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:17,780
my show and that show can't coexist at the same time.
840
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:18,850
And let me tell you,
841
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:20,690
we talked about it for hours.
842
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,180
We talked about it for hours.
843
00:42:22,180 --> 00:42:28,940
The quality of the material in both works was so outstanding and my stomach is rumbling.
844
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:29,130
Now,
845
00:42:29,130 --> 00:42:31,720
I'm sorry if you're picking that up.
846
00:42:31,730 --> 00:42:35,260
But the quality was there and it was a really hard decision.
847
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:39,470
And if you go back to I think drafts one through six of the program,
848
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:45,220
you probably would have seen both of them there and trying to shuffle them around and it just it wasn't going to work.
849
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:47,830
And yet it broke my heart,
850
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,590
but it was one of those moments where I had to go,
851
00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:50,310
you know what,
852
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,600
what are the factors that can help me make this decision?
853
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:58,740
And it did come down to covid how safe is it planning more interstate than local artists?
854
00:42:58,750 --> 00:43:05,150
Is that I've really committed to Oliver in this work because I believe in it and it needs to be seen by the Brisbane theatre scene.
855
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,460
So that's what we have to do.
856
00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:11,490
And that's not to say that the Asspy Hour may not Come to us in 2023,
857
00:43:11,490 --> 00:43:13,010
I think that would be fantastic.
858
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,160
But you know.
859
00:43:14,170 --> 00:43:15,230
Yeah,
860
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:16,850
thank you for breaking my heart.
861
00:43:16,850 --> 00:43:17,430
I bring that up.
862
00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:21,020
I wouldn't have brought it up.
863
00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:22,460
Except yeah,
864
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:25,020
I've had conversations with look,
865
00:43:25,020 --> 00:43:33,230
that's also that thing of you as an artist when you do receive a know how do you not let that turn you against other artists?
866
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:38,020
That's a really big conversation that we're having more as a theatre community.
867
00:43:38,030 --> 00:43:38,840
I really like that.
868
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,770
There's been a conversation between you and them as makers going,
869
00:43:43,780 --> 00:43:44,240
look,
870
00:43:44,250 --> 00:43:44,950
you know,
871
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,680
working for similar territory.
872
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:47,120
Yeah,
873
00:43:47,130 --> 00:43:48,330
like supporting each other.
874
00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:48,870
Absolutely.
875
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:51,190
And actually realizing sometimes your paths are going to cross,
876
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:56,250
sometimes your parents will never cross because the same thing will actually come up for a period of time.
877
00:43:56,250 --> 00:44:02,890
But it's just forming the short list for the Queensland Premier's Drama Award that's happening right at the moment.
878
00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:04,450
And it's really interesting.
879
00:44:04,460 --> 00:44:08,840
We saw a lot of people from around the country writing similar stories.
880
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,120
There are lots of trauma stories being written at the moment in different ways.
881
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:18,460
People have had time and they're writing quite close to themselves and looking at them all.
882
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:21,600
It's kind of like of the players about this topic.
883
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,930
There are four or five.
884
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:35,260
So which you're already making that thing of the choice is happening in that and trying to reassure playwrights that just because one was their playwriting cries that actually goes to production,
885
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:36,940
you're going to make a choice with players,
886
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:39,010
they're further along formally.
887
00:44:39,090 --> 00:44:41,470
So sometimes it's the work is further along.
888
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,030
Sometimes it's put in a different way,
889
00:44:44,030 --> 00:44:46,280
but there is no science to it.
890
00:44:46,290 --> 00:44:48,070
That's what I try and reassure people.
891
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:54,230
It's an artist like yourself sitting in their choice decision spot going,
892
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:55,380
I'm going to choose one or the other.
893
00:44:55,380 --> 00:45:03,000
There is no right choice is just the choice that you as an artist are going to make with the best of intense in supporting both the artist and the work in the time that you're in.
894
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:03,940
Absolutely.
895
00:45:03,950 --> 00:45:11,010
And there's also that element to of having to shut out the inevitable critique of the decisions that you make because certainly,
896
00:45:11,010 --> 00:45:11,200
I mean,
897
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,090
we did the post event surveys and they were I mean,
898
00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:17,910
the vast majority of feedback was overwhelmingly positive and we did get,
899
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:18,200
you know,
900
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,010
some people who weren't happy with the decisions that I made and how,
901
00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:22,560
I mean,
902
00:45:22,570 --> 00:45:26,420
I've been meaning to actually email you about this for a while and just how do you deal with that?
903
00:45:26,490 --> 00:45:29,390
Because sometimes it can feel very personal to go.
904
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,060
I know so many,
905
00:45:31,070 --> 00:45:31,540
you know,
906
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:33,580
in search genre,
907
00:45:33,580 --> 00:45:38,160
artists who deserved this spot and I don't think that this other show deserved a spot.
908
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:38,620
I saw it.
909
00:45:38,620 --> 00:45:39,640
And I didn't like it.
910
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:40,240
It's like,
911
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,870
well We have to come back to your art being subjective and that concept that you just said,
912
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:46,430
there is no right decision.
913
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:47,910
It's about what is,
914
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,330
I guess the most instinctive decision,
915
00:45:50,340 --> 00:45:53,000
looking at all of the factors across the board,
916
00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:53,590
like you said,
917
00:45:53,590 --> 00:45:55,370
if you've got 10 plays on the same topic,
918
00:45:55,370 --> 00:45:59,600
which ones rise to the top and that's about the time that you're in.
919
00:45:59,610 --> 00:46:00,080
Yeah,
920
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:01,070
it's about yes.
921
00:46:01,070 --> 00:46:07,980
There's a subjective of like how you are as you're reading and considering and mm and it doesn't,
922
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:12,580
it shouldn't ever mean that it's a complete no to the other works.
923
00:46:12,590 --> 00:46:14,010
It's just at this time.
924
00:46:14,020 --> 00:46:14,680
Absolutely.
925
00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:17,560
And two years down the track with more development,
926
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,170
you absolutely embrace something.
927
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,370
And that's interesting for me in that space between the festivals,
928
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:23,760
in between the programs,
929
00:46:23,770 --> 00:46:29,980
both advocating for other works that I've come across that weren't right for for one of our seasons.
930
00:46:29,980 --> 00:46:30,800
I consciously work,
931
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,770
especially with the Australian plays to recommend writers to other companies and feel.
932
00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:37,510
And then I'll drop a line to someone saying,
933
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:38,030
hey,
934
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,370
you came up in conversation,
935
00:46:39,370 --> 00:46:40,470
I hope you don't mind.
936
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,610
I told them to look,
937
00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:43,920
have a look at on your work.
938
00:46:43,930 --> 00:46:45,190
I hope that's okay.
939
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,210
Always try and check because the work could have changed the artist could have moved on from it.
940
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,130
But it's also that thing of trying to reassure artists that just the no,
941
00:46:53,130 --> 00:46:54,560
on that day doesn't mean you know,
942
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,210
forever.
943
00:46:55,220 --> 00:47:03,090
It just means I know on that day and I think about that because I apply for the I don't know if I make the short list and I'm sorry,
944
00:47:04,250 --> 00:47:06,730
that's what we're in the middle of right now,
945
00:47:06,730 --> 00:47:08,700
we're just coming towards the long list,
946
00:47:09,180 --> 00:47:10,500
I'm sure is great.
947
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,150
I have no idea if you have yet because I don't know,
948
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,050
I don't know.
949
00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:21,430
I'm literally I'm literally a half a day away from actually getting all of the names that that go with the place.
950
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:22,760
So I don't know,
951
00:47:23,470 --> 00:47:25,670
like no,
952
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:26,180
no,
953
00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:30,380
I'm genuinely not worried.
954
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:37,750
And I bring it up to say I have confidence in my script that I've even since submitting it,
955
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,280
it's not the end of the process.
956
00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:44,090
I've already changed that script about five times since submitting it,
957
00:47:44,090 --> 00:47:47,720
but it was on the deadline,
958
00:47:47,730 --> 00:47:51,750
that is where the script was at when I submitted it.
959
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:53,370
What my thinking was about it,
960
00:47:53,370 --> 00:47:59,120
where what I thought it's an unproduced play it on that day.
961
00:47:59,130 --> 00:48:04,610
Thinking about knowing that it has to be produced at the end of this.
962
00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:17,610
I'm also at the time thinking about what can Queensland theatre functionally do in that moment and all those kind of decisions that it might be with a different company in a different time,
963
00:48:17,620 --> 00:48:19,420
in a different circumstance,
964
00:48:19,420 --> 00:48:27,770
a different home look next year's season has to place that came to us through the Queensland Premier Drama Award neither of them won,
965
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:29,100
one was shortlisted,
966
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:37,470
but one was in the round of meetings and that was six years ago that I met Christopher Johnson and stayed in touch with him.
967
00:48:37,470 --> 00:48:38,640
I remember calling and saying,
968
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:39,780
is it okay,
969
00:48:40,270 --> 00:48:44,960
can I stay in touch with that playwright or are you going to keep developing that play because I really want to.
970
00:48:44,970 --> 00:48:51,180
So there are different paths and it's taken years for that player to get ready to be on the stage.
971
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:52,860
Plays will find different pathways.
972
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:59,380
But I think it's also that thing for artists to have faith that you have a faith in your in your script,
973
00:48:59,390 --> 00:49:02,690
that actually it will catch someone,
974
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:05,200
there are players across many different competitions,
975
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,770
which I've read that have found a way to have been in conversations that I really love that play,
976
00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:14,860
that thing of the whole Australian theatre community is looking for great stories,
977
00:49:14,860 --> 00:49:16,210
but we're all looking for different things.
978
00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:18,040
So that thing,
979
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:18,490
I mean,
980
00:49:18,570 --> 00:49:29,350
you'll stay in touch with artists that you said no to because you are deeply invested in the idea of that work coming to stage and we all get on the phone to each other and we talk and you say,
981
00:49:29,350 --> 00:49:29,520
oh,
982
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,350
there's this or I pick up the phone and say,
983
00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:32,380
what do I do about this matter?
984
00:49:32,380 --> 00:49:34,380
And you calm down,
985
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:35,680
you know,
986
00:49:35,690 --> 00:49:42,030
and I think I find that reassuring as an artist that it's not the end of a conversation.
987
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:42,310
No,
988
00:49:42,310 --> 00:49:43,790
it's the start of a different one.
989
00:49:43,870 --> 00:49:45,040
All art is subjective.
990
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:48,890
And so someone could read the script that I've submitted and gone.
991
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:51,610
I absolutely hated that it wasn't funny,
992
00:49:51,620 --> 00:49:53,810
it wasn't whatever.
993
00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:57,270
And I would be upset that someone didn't like my play,
994
00:49:57,270 --> 00:50:03,800
but I also understand that I like it and I have enough faith in it that if someone goes,
995
00:50:03,810 --> 00:50:05,580
it didn't work for me.
996
00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:10,840
Here's why I will receive that feedback and I'm not going to ignore that feed.
997
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,430
And you know what's interesting you say that phrase?
998
00:50:12,430 --> 00:50:13,640
I think we always always here.
999
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:14,400
There's that thing of like,
1000
00:50:14,410 --> 00:50:21,520
I hated it so rarely have I ever heard that word coming out of the amount of an artist who is assessing other people's work,
1001
00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:22,630
just don't do that.
1002
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:23,240
They kind of go,
1003
00:50:23,250 --> 00:50:23,870
oh look,
1004
00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:27,850
this didn't connect with me probably because of this and this in my taste.
1005
00:50:27,860 --> 00:50:28,950
But who else?
1006
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:29,390
Like,
1007
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,940
we didn't connect to someone else.
1008
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:34,010
I could probably count on one hand,
1009
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:34,540
works wherever,
1010
00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:35,800
actively going to hate.
1011
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,190
That.
1012
00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:38,180
That's the movie.
1013
00:50:38,860 --> 00:50:40,040
Didn't see it.
1014
00:50:40,050 --> 00:50:41,190
Didn't see it.
1015
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,550
But look at all those amazing people who we're trying to make something really great.
1016
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:47,300
Absolutely.
1017
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,140
I mean,
1018
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:50,990
we have huge fears that we kind of we go,
1019
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,960
I think all these great people commit to something and it can be awful.
1020
00:50:53,970 --> 00:50:55,430
We know that that's a possibility.
1021
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:56,740
But so rarely,
1022
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:58,500
most of the time we look at something and go,
1023
00:50:58,500 --> 00:50:58,620
oh,
1024
00:50:58,620 --> 00:50:59,350
that didn't work,
1025
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,590
but no one was trying to make something that didn't work.
1026
00:51:01,590 --> 00:51:07,490
And as someone who as well as being an artist works regularly as a critic,
1027
00:51:08,260 --> 00:51:17,190
I always have this weird thing of like when I'm putting on my critic hat understanding the artist point of view.
1028
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:22,410
And even if I am giving a show like a very negative review,
1029
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:31,930
I'm careful to understand that what choices were made for a reason and I respect those choices even if they don't work for me for X,
1030
00:51:31,930 --> 00:51:38,690
y and Z reasons and I'm not going to be nice about it because you know,
1031
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,340
I feel it is my job as a critic.
1032
00:51:41,350 --> 00:51:45,030
If I don't like something to explain why I don't like it,
1033
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:52,030
but I'm doing that out of respect and honesty that I would want critic to do that for my work.
1034
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,780
And it always comes from a place of love and understanding.
1035
00:51:55,780 --> 00:52:13,210
And I think there is a miss demeanour about critics that are failed artists that they're in opposition to as opposed to an extension of the critical dialogue around how and why we make work that core question of who is this work for and it's okay if the answer is,
1036
00:52:13,210 --> 00:52:14,530
it's not for me.
1037
00:52:14,540 --> 00:52:16,260
I've sat in a few different shows.
1038
00:52:16,450 --> 00:52:16,720
Yeah,
1039
00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:23,270
well I was going to say over the past two years over the past year because I didn't see anything to you before where I've just sat there and I've gone,
1040
00:52:23,650 --> 00:52:23,900
look,
1041
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:26,020
I really like some of the choices that were made,
1042
00:52:26,020 --> 00:52:27,450
but I also go out of it going,
1043
00:52:27,460 --> 00:52:28,440
I don't feel moved.
1044
00:52:28,450 --> 00:52:29,950
But this work is not for me.
1045
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,840
This story was not written for me to absorb for me and,
1046
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:34,010
you know,
1047
00:52:34,010 --> 00:52:37,160
my tastes and my sense of humour,
1048
00:52:37,170 --> 00:52:38,840
but I can come out of it going,
1049
00:52:38,850 --> 00:52:39,690
that was still,
1050
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:40,140
you know,
1051
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:42,620
so I the responses,
1052
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:43,710
this happens to everyone.
1053
00:52:43,710 --> 00:52:46,600
There'll be a moment where you don't laugh at something and everyone else seems to,
1054
00:52:46,610 --> 00:52:47,300
yes,
1055
00:52:47,310 --> 00:52:48,820
I'm looking around the room going,
1056
00:52:48,830 --> 00:52:49,990
okay,
1057
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,500
what did what did I miss you when you're the only personal.
1058
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:56,860
Yes.
1059
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:57,810
And you're like,
1060
00:52:57,820 --> 00:52:58,590
was that a joke?
1061
00:52:58,590 --> 00:53:02,110
Was I meant to laugh and you feel like saying to people,
1062
00:53:02,110 --> 00:53:02,190
oh,
1063
00:53:02,190 --> 00:53:02,600
it's okay.
1064
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:03,060
It's because,
1065
00:53:03,060 --> 00:53:03,510
sorry,
1066
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,060
It's just because this thing happened to me.
1067
00:53:05,060 --> 00:53:05,630
And I find that,
1068
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:06,370
yeah,
1069
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:11,940
there were a couple of moments in your show actually where you have made a couple of autistic jokes and I mean,
1070
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:13,040
I loved because number one,
1071
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:13,580
I know you,
1072
00:53:13,580 --> 00:53:15,080
but I also know a bit more about how,
1073
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:15,280
you know,
1074
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,380
the autistic community jokes about certain things.
1075
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:20,650
And then you hear that staggered laugh response where people go,
1076
00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:21,570
give me permission.
1077
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:29,890
I can sink into it now because one of the lines of that sounded quite autistic.
1078
00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:37,670
And that line was consistently even in the kind of test shows that I did of it would get a oh,
1079
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:38,130
okay,
1080
00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:39,790
we can laugh now.
1081
00:53:39,850 --> 00:53:40,690
Yes.
1082
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:43,190
It's a joke.
1083
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:43,700
Yeah.
1084
00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:51,200
It's funny because I actually got quite self conscious on the night because I realized I was laughing quite big to a number of these jokes and again,
1085
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,860
no one else was really trying to catch the wave of your laughter great or sitting next to you just so you know,
1086
00:53:56,860 --> 00:53:57,360
I was like,
1087
00:53:57,370 --> 00:53:57,690
okay,
1088
00:53:57,690 --> 00:53:58,120
yes,
1089
00:53:58,130 --> 00:53:58,430
yeah,
1090
00:53:58,430 --> 00:53:59,840
I have permission to laugh at that.
1091
00:53:59,850 --> 00:54:00,490
Yeah.
1092
00:54:00,500 --> 00:54:02,180
But there are also some moments where you go,
1093
00:54:02,180 --> 00:54:02,450
okay,
1094
00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:02,580
well,
1095
00:54:02,580 --> 00:54:08,750
maybe there are some comments that are jokes for people who relate to your experience or people who have similar.
1096
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,200
Again,
1097
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,180
not every joke is for every person in the room.
1098
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:11,700
And I mean,
1099
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:16,480
I think about I saw a return to the dirt on Saturday night and was bawling in the second half,
1100
00:54:16,490 --> 00:54:17,290
I saw it with Hannah,
1101
00:54:17,290 --> 00:54:21,800
our producer who very kindly gave me her spare ticket so I could see it.
1102
00:54:21,810 --> 00:54:24,880
But I remember speaking to her beforehand and she's like,
1103
00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:25,850
I won't say anything,
1104
00:54:25,850 --> 00:54:26,670
I just want you to see it,
1105
00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:27,990
I want to see you see it.
1106
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:28,500
And I'm like,
1107
00:54:28,510 --> 00:54:29,170
okay,
1108
00:54:29,180 --> 00:54:30,050
all right,
1109
00:54:30,060 --> 00:54:31,060
a little bit on edge,
1110
00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:37,030
But I got it because as soon as I went and it's like she knew that that show was something that would really I mean,
1111
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:37,750
it's not written for me,
1112
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:38,860
it's written for Steve,
1113
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:43,510
but overall it would be something that I would find really resonated in style,
1114
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:44,160
in form,
1115
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,870
in verbatim ness if that's the word,
1116
00:54:47,870 --> 00:54:50,900
I'm making it a word just dramaturgical e and the direction,
1117
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:52,810
which I thought was fabulous by the way,
1118
00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:54,920
did all of it just worked together.
1119
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,660
It was a show that I would love.
1120
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,140
And I was saying to Oliver and said in the elevator,
1121
00:55:02,140 --> 00:55:02,600
I actually,
1122
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:03,250
you know,
1123
00:55:03,340 --> 00:55:03,670
yes,
1124
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:09,160
very moved by and I had to sit in my car afterwards just for a moment and quickly message my boyfriend and go,
1125
00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:22,220
I just need to know I really moved and this is how I feel and you're really important to me because it made me reflect on me and my life and the people I love and death and grief and and this hilarious story I have of being,
1126
00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:24,210
I think it was 11 or 12 years old,
1127
00:55:24,220 --> 00:55:30,760
not knowing how cremation works being at my great grandmother's funeral sobbing because I thought they were going to like the confident on fire right in front of me.
1128
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,250
So I got taken out of the room because I thought that that's how they did cremation.
1129
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,770
But it's weird how these stories resonate.
1130
00:55:37,780 --> 00:55:40,670
But I also know that there might be someone else in that audience who they might go,
1131
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:42,130
that's a great show,
1132
00:55:42,140 --> 00:55:45,420
but theatre at its finest,
1133
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:47,710
because it's not complex.
1134
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:48,560
It's not,
1135
00:55:49,640 --> 00:56:00,360
I think what theatre has the power to do when it is working on all cylinders is you could theoretically remove all the tech elements,
1136
00:56:00,370 --> 00:56:02,030
all of the yeah,
1137
00:56:02,530 --> 00:56:04,540
whatever and just in a room,
1138
00:56:05,130 --> 00:56:10,960
read a script and if the script or if theatre is pure enough,
1139
00:56:12,730 --> 00:56:18,460
it works magic and that's not to say with all the bells and whistles do,
1140
00:56:18,830 --> 00:56:19,980
but we don't need them,
1141
00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:21,950
but we connect to what's human about it.
1142
00:56:22,330 --> 00:56:23,640
Like that's what it comes down to.
1143
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,560
I think that's one of the reasons why Oliver's work worked so well is because it was human,
1144
00:56:27,570 --> 00:56:32,450
you can see the human and you don't even need to be telling your own story to have a really human work.
1145
00:56:32,460 --> 00:56:33,990
But that's what we connect to most.
1146
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:35,150
I mean triple X.
1147
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,580
I mean I knew that that work was not for me,
1148
00:56:37,580 --> 00:56:40,510
but it was so human and I still was moved and oh my God,
1149
00:56:40,510 --> 00:56:41,740
it was incredible.
1150
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:43,070
But coming out of it going,
1151
00:56:43,070 --> 00:56:46,340
that was some of the most phenomenal theatre I've seen in a very long time.
1152
00:56:46,830 --> 00:56:50,390
What did just name three works that were personal stories,
1153
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:51,190
personal stories.
1154
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:51,650
I did,
1155
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:52,480
I did,
1156
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:53,400
I did do that,
1157
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:54,060
didn't I?
1158
00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:54,910
It's okay,
1159
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:55,480
it's okay.
1160
00:56:55,490 --> 00:56:58,000
It's also a thing that's happening a lot in theatre.
1161
00:56:58,010 --> 00:56:58,640
Yeah.
1162
00:56:58,650 --> 00:57:07,380
And that question about the valuing of authenticity is actually making people braver about identifying with the story that they're writing.
1163
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:17,260
I think it used to be the tradition that you disappeared yourself into the work that you had to create layers on top of it and something rang true,
1164
00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:19,060
but you denied it was autobiographical,
1165
00:57:19,060 --> 00:57:19,960
that was naff,
1166
00:57:19,970 --> 00:57:20,580
yes,
1167
00:57:20,590 --> 00:57:22,010
all that emotion.
1168
00:57:22,020 --> 00:57:26,570
But times are changing And I think that that question,
1169
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:30,200
I'm just conscious that sin is waving the hand that says,
1170
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,520
we should probably wrap up sometime soon.
1171
00:57:32,540 --> 00:57:47,850
I'm trying to find a very big reach that talks about authenticity and things that matter and stories that reach us and spaces that allow it to happen in the Bille Brown and your extraordinary show and your extraordinary festival and how I'm already looking forward to the next one.
1172
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:49,680
I can't wrap it all up together.
1173
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,570
This has been too wide ranging and beautiful a conversation about art and artists.
1174
00:57:54,830 --> 00:57:56,770
Is there anything you wanted to throw into the pool?
1175
00:57:56,780 --> 00:57:58,840
I was quickly and I'll end on this.
1176
00:57:58,850 --> 00:58:03,990
I was reading David Williamson's ‘Home Truths’ his new memoir,
1177
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:16,660
and he talks about how it was only this year when he was researching for his new book how autobiographical his works uh when he was writing them,
1178
00:58:16,660 --> 00:58:17,310
he's like,
1179
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:18,010
I'm,
1180
00:58:18,020 --> 00:58:19,040
you know,
1181
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,630
doing whatever he was that he was dealing with at the time,
1182
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,610
unaware that what he was actually dealing was sorting through his own traumas.
1183
00:58:28,610 --> 00:58:39,970
And I think even if you're telling a fictional story or on some level there are doing it because you need to you're doing it because you need to and it will bleed in like,
1184
00:58:39,980 --> 00:58:44,540
the script that I submitted for the media has elements of my life in it.
1185
00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:50,690
It is also a fictional story that is completely made up and did not happen,
1186
00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:52,330
but moments have happened,
1187
00:58:52,340 --> 00:58:54,390
but moments have happened.
1188
00:58:54,400 --> 00:59:07,320
There's something really interesting that happens in the disability arts community to is we kind of instinctively one of our first big works will be a very personal autobiographical work and that's largely because of the lack of representation on stage.
1189
00:59:07,330 --> 00:59:10,840
Because if we don't see characters and stories that we can,
1190
00:59:11,220 --> 00:59:11,710
you know,
1191
00:59:11,710 --> 00:59:13,390
just pick up a text and go,
1192
00:59:13,390 --> 00:59:14,050
you know what I want to,
1193
00:59:14,060 --> 00:59:16,830
I want to put on secret Bridesmaid's business and sure,
1194
00:59:16,830 --> 00:59:18,110
like The Bride can be disabled,
1195
00:59:18,110 --> 00:59:18,340
you know,
1196
00:59:18,340 --> 00:59:19,090
no big deal.
1197
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:20,640
If I don't feel like I can do that,
1198
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,820
I'm going to create a show as I have done about my own life,
1199
00:59:23,830 --> 00:59:27,860
but then the next work is a little bit different and very similar.
1200
00:59:27,860 --> 00:59:33,450
The work that I submitted with a co playwright um is informed by our experiences,
1201
00:59:33,450 --> 00:59:34,950
but it's definitely not.
1202
00:59:35,020 --> 00:59:37,600
Um our story by any means.
1203
00:59:37,610 --> 00:59:42,530
And I think that perhaps there's a shift happening in the industry because we're looking for yes,
1204
00:59:42,530 --> 00:59:43,240
what's human,
1205
00:59:43,250 --> 00:59:44,980
what's true and authentic,
1206
00:59:44,990 --> 00:59:48,760
But we're also looking to see ourselves on stage somehow.
1207
00:59:48,770 --> 00:59:50,390
And how do we do that?
1208
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,450
We'll do we have to make our own work or can we invite people in to make it with us?
1209
00:59:55,020 --> 00:59:58,180
Big questions that's going to require another podcast.
1210
00:59:58,650 --> 00:59:59,060
Yeah,
1211
00:59:59,070 --> 01:00:03,520
so we're going to leave it there for today Maddie Oliver,
1212
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:10,050
thank you so much for being in conversation and thank you to all of the Queensland theatre quality time listeners who tuned in.
1213
01:00:10,060 --> 01:00:24,200
I don't know when this will be available online for people to have a listen to but I hope that it's giving you some food for thought and that you're already putting 2023 somewhere in the September area around there in September.
1214
01:00:24,210 --> 01:00:30,490
Just put it in your long term google calendar that there'll be stuff to look out for with the undercover arts festival.
1215
01:00:30,490 --> 01:00:31,330
Thank you both.
1216
01:00:31,340 --> 01:00:32,140
Thank you.
1217
01:00:33,410 --> 01:00:38,210
Thanks so much for listening to quality time.
1218
01:00:38,220 --> 01:00:43,480
Please rate and review it and follow us on Facebook Instagram LinkedIn and twitter at Q.
1219
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:43,620
L.
1220
01:00:43,620 --> 01:00:43,800
D.
1221
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:44,330
Theatre.
1222
01:00:44,810 --> 01:00:52,810
You can visit our website Queensland theatre dot com dot au to sign up to our e news and learn more about the stories we'll be sharing next.
1223
01:00:52,820 --> 01:00:59,100
We can't wait to see you at the theatre again soon by the way.
1224
01:00:59,110 --> 01:00:59,850
There we go.
1225
01:00:59,860 --> 01:01:00,520
Sorry,
1226
01:01:00,530 --> 01:01:04,390
I as if as if that one was gonna run shorter,
1227
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:09,810
please sorry there that with the kids I believe.
1228
01:01:13,510 --> 01:01:13,740
Yeah.
1229
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Mm hmm,
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mm hmm.
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Uh huh.
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Yeah,
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Hi,
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you're listening to the Queensland Theatre Quality Time podcast.
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Let me set the scene headed by artistic director Maddie Little Undercover Artists Festival exists to profile and promote outstanding work by performing artists with disability In 2021,
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they were one of the few organizations in the entire world to successfully share an arts festival through numerous COVID updates,
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lockdowns and restrictions.
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Today,
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our Artistic Director Lee Lewis is joined by Maddie and performer/writer of the festival's opening act,
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Oliver Heatherington-Page to discuss just how they proved risky wrong and ended up with a roaring success,
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enjoy.
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Yeah,
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mm hmm.
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Welcome everybody.
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I am lee Lewis,
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I'm the artistic director here at Queensland Theatre and I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Queensland Theatre’s Quality Time podcast.
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I'm here with Maddie and Oliver and I'll hand over to them to introduce themselves.
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And we're going to have a conversation about the Undercover Arts Festival which happened in the Queensland Theatre space.
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How long ago was it now?
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It was over a month,
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a month ago.
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That was the 16th to the 18th of September,
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which is a biennial once every two-year festival that happens in this space that we've been supporting for a while.
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But I'll let Maddie tell you all about it because she is the driving force.
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She is the Artistic Director of the festival and it's been a real pleasure to have the work that you curated in the Bille Brown's space and in the Diane Cilento space for that period of time.
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It's a really special time in our,
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in our year when a huge range of artists come into the building and we get to share the space.
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So hello and welcome to these lands.
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The lands the Yuggera and the Turrbal people.
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We make all of our work on these lands.
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But we look forward to times when we can travel it to lands beyond welcome and thank you for joining me for this fabulous podcast.
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Thank you for having us.
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Thank you for having me and Maddie as well.
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You're welcome Oliver.
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Now we were having a pre conversation to this conversation about how difficult it is to open up the mysterious world of theatre and let people know how it is that we do what we do.
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And Oliver,
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you were talking about when your play was on in the Bill Brown theatre as part of the festival.
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How people had questions for you about how this thing happened.
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It was interesting because we're just having those conversations with friends that came to see the show that like theatre but aren't necessarily theatre people.
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And they were asking,
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oh, the lights were so good,
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how did that come to me?
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And I was like,
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that was 20 conversations between me and my lighting designer of like every moment that you see is 20 choices that we didn't make.
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And I think there's a lack of understanding around that of like for every choice that you make,
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there are 10 choices that are equally good different that we for various reasons,
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chose not to make or if we had the opportunity to do it again in a different space in a different time,
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we might have made a different choice.
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But the circumstances in that moment while we made that choice,
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because that was the right choice for the Bille Brown because originally, I was meant to be in the Diane Cilento
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but do the ticket sales I was which seems like,
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which is a great problem to have but being bumped up to a bigger venue,
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everyone knows the story where you go down to a smaller venue because you haven't sold enough tickets,
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terrible story.
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This is the reverse of that,
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but it meant on a design level,
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the very different spaces and we suddenly with about a month to go head to bump all our tech to a suit that space.
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And that was a big conversation between me,
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my lighting designer,
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our technical team of how do we not sacrifice a show that was designed for a smaller fringe space,
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like the Dyin Celente 90 seats,
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which is 90 seats Into suddenly a theatre that is 300 but also make it bigger but not sacrifice the intimacy of what we wanted when we were designing the show so that those conversations were really interesting and not what people see that question of intimacy.
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The Bille Brown can be intimate,
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but you have to work quite hard technically to make it so and your show,
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which was fabulous fun was also a very personal and was really dependent,
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it feels from an audience point of view on that magic that you created between you and the audience.
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So that personal relationship,
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that intimacy was integral to the success of the work.
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And you knew you could do it in the dance alone toe.
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But your technical support for work so that it can reach in a larger space is huge.
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So sorry,
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sorry about that.
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You're right.
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It is a great problem to have.
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And I'm not going to complain about being able to perform in the Bille Brown,
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but also it was a adjustment that me and my team had to make very quickly.
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I'll say it was also a very big problem for us as the festival team Oliver selling out so quickly.
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And then again,
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when we released more seats,
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it was actually,
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it's all your fault Oliver that you were too popular.
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There are lots of strategic decisions that had to go into conversations with Oliver and I about whether or not you and your team felt like it's something you wanted to do or do we add another show performance in the DCs or he'll just sell that out really quickly too.
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So biggest space.
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And it worked out too because we lost some of our interstate performers due to Covid.
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So tell me as a festival director who's survived in the Covid times.
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What's that been like?
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Um,
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hardly traumatic is a good way to put it.
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But it's also about opportunity really in the end.
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So, you can have these hopes and dreams and then trying to shift your reframe your thinking so that it's not about what you've lost,
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but we have the opportunity to do something different now and respond that was the only way I got through it was with this sense of don't overthink it.
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We just need to make the decisions.
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And so when we knew,
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okay,
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Sarah her bolt,
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who is incredible,
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isn't able to kick off our festival with her show,
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cuckoo the bird girl.
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But Oliver's over here selling out and he's like a local crowd favourite at this point.
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So, he can kick off our festival.
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And that's a really profound opportunity as well to support an emerging artist with his brand-new work that,
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you know,
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that kind of opportunity doesn't normally exist in a festival format.
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So yeah,
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look,
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it was,
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it was a mix of emotions and lots of sleepless nights.
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But we got there in the end, and I say that the applause was awesome and incredible and almost blew my mind a little bit.
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So, I think it was a good choice in the end.
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Absolutely.
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Look as one of the happy audience members sitting there reporting on opening night.
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I thought that that was a great,
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it was a great choice.
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But it was,
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it was also that thing,
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isn't it?
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Of what seems risky.
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It's great when the world proves to you that it's not when you program a work,
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you try and put it in a space that you think is a good fit for it.
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It's lovely when a work blows the roof off the space and bursts out of that smaller space into a bigger one was if you'd been put into the Bille Brown to begin with,
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there's a pressure in that scale which sometimes welcome,
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sometimes not.
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Yeah,
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I look back on it as the artist involved when I came to marry,
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I had a title and a vague concept of I want to use music theatre to talk about autism and a show called the No Bang Theory.
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That was really all that I had and it's matty's faith and like I can see what Oliver is trying to do that even got me the funding to start that ball rolling and I,
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and if I had been told in a year's time you're going to perform this show in the Bille Brown,
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I'd be going,
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no,
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let's abort mission.
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Abort mission Not going to happen but because it was just baby steps every step of the way.
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First it was the 1st 15 minutes.
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Then it was the whole show in the Die in Sorrento.
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And then suddenly it was in the Bille Brown opening the festival,
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the head of the state theatre companies in the front row.
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Sorry about that.
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I don't organize the seating when I saw that,
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I was like,
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oh,
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this is so horrible.
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And I have a seat up the back.
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I never get to sit in the front row.
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That was that was completely my fault too.
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There was a conversation about,
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okay,
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well festival director should sit next to the artistic director of the State Theatre Company,
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but Maddie's access requirements dictate no stairs.
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So, I guess you're in the front of the background.
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I'm sure that front row was better.
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Yeah,
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it's phenomenal.
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You know,
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it was an adjustment of like,
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okay,
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there is no hiding,
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there is no and not that you can hide on stage anyway,
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but you'd like to lie to yourself sometimes and things that you can hide on stage and I'm just doing a show.
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No one's going to know.
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No good.
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Yeah,
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it's a funny thing,
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isn't it?
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When you I mean there must have been and I ask you about that moment where you kind of went,
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oh,
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let me pick up the phone and call Oliver and see if he would like to do this.
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Because there is one thing where you go,
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this is sold and you have to ask the artist if this is something that you want,
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How did that conversation go?
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I mean,
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first of all,
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it was a conversation with myself and our fabulous festival producer Hana Towe because you know,
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we kind of are inseparable almost,
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it's a bit sickening.
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Um,
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but we're quite close.
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And so we,
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we talk almost everything through.
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And when we were like,
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okay,
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look,
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we just have to make the call,
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we just have to cut these interstate artists because we can't risk,
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you know,
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all of these massive touring parties and border restrictions and buying tickets and losing money and all of those things.
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But at the same time,
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the happy point for us was I think Oliver first originally sold out two days after we went on sale and launched our program.
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I mean,
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that's phenomenal.
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And so it's,
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it comes back to that opportunity.
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You know,
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I can't remember if it was Hannah or myself who suggested it,
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but there was a really interesting conversation there about,
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hang on a minute,
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all of us really popular and he's going to smash it.
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We're confident in the quality of his work because we saw the creative development that we supported last year.
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It's going to be hilarious and poignant and beautiful and what an opportunity to put an emerging artist on stage to open the festival.
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And there was a conversation about what it actually sets the tone for the whole festival is that we're putting authentic disabled stories on stage or what better way to do it than with someone talking about his own life and doing it so well and making us all laugh and potentially cry in the process.
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So, thank you for the kind words very well eventually learn how to receive positive affirmation,
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but that day is not today.
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No one is good at taking a compliment dude.
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No one not at all.
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Well,
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what's this now?
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You ran one of the most successful festivals in the world in that time frame,
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if you think about it and so far, as you can put a context about it and say it's in this time,
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but the fact that you were doing a festival at all and a festival inside the festival,
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doubly complicated.
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It has to be celebrated in the scheme of World Theatre in the last two years.
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Were all very good at not looking at the big picture because the big picture when you're in the run up can be quite frightening,
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but a month afterwards.
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What are you most happy about insofar as that most happy about?
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I guess there's,
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I mean there's the relief that we made it and certainly that's something hard and I felt on our closing night,
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we're watching a spike jones and his band play, and I think I had my first proper drink of the entire festival.
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I'm sitting there going,
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oh my gosh,
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we,
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we actually made it through watching the 10 a.m. Press conferences every single day wondering if we'd started festival have to stop.
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But I think there's something really beautiful too about seeing the growth of the festival and getting that momentum going for some of our artists as well.
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So, the fact that all of his show is going to win,
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infringe next is amazing.
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He's going from success to another success.
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I'm complimenting you more and I'm just nodding quietly accepting the compliment.
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Excellent.
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And then we've got some other artists who like Asspy Jones for example,
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he's releasing single after single and he and his band said it was one of the best gigs that he ever played.
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And as we actually saw most of the shows throughout the festival leading up to his own gig and something he reflected on during his performance was the fact that the quality of talent was so incredible,
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but also, to be part of a community feel to know that this is the place where you can make art and you can be,
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you know,
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authentic to yourself in your own stories and tell them in the best way possible,
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that that was reflected so well over the course of the few days,
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I think that's the biggest accomplishment or biggest uh I don't know what the word I'm looking for is success is that we've done something that meant a lot to the artists and then to the community that we serve.
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And then also putting that on stage in such a way that the wider community can see that we actually make really good stuff and the time for underestimating us is well over.
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And I can build on that from my own experience since the festival.
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I've gotten a number of working opportunities,
235
00:13:25,870 --> 00:13:28,950
not necessarily because of the festival,
236
00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:31,800
but because I am out there doing this now,
237
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,270
I can't just be kind of brushed aside.
238
00:13:34,270 --> 00:13:44,100
So, I've been getting access work and doing working with companies to really how can they be the most accessible company as possible.
239
00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:50,090
And that wouldn't have happened before because I wasn't being seen as a disabled artist.
240
00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:54,290
It was that's just Oliver doing what Oliver does talking about.
241
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:58,310
But now it's I know he's respected his getting opportunities.
242
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:59,780
He performed in the Bille Brown theatre.
243
00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:00,130
He's,
244
00:14:00,130 --> 00:14:00,360
you know,
245
00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:01,830
a serious artist.
246
00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:07,090
Now we need to get him on board and because we want to work with him.
247
00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:10,220
And that wouldn't have happened before undercover at festival.
248
00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:21,810
Which is why I think it's a great festival because it creates opportunities that might lead to something else, or it might not and it might go down a completely different path.
249
00:14:21,810 --> 00:14:26,850
But the fact that I had the opportunity in the first instance is a win in and of itself.
250
00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:28,060
Yeah.
251
00:14:28,070 --> 00:14:31,110
So, for people who might not have made it to the festival,
252
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:33,790
but who should be looking to come next year?
253
00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:36,040
But the year after 2023 is the next festival.
254
00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:38,580
Give me an idea of what the scale of it is,
255
00:14:38,580 --> 00:14:41,990
what the ambition of it is and what why people should come in 23.
256
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:42,410
Yeah.
257
00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:42,620
Well,
258
00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:47,650
undercover artist festival exists to profile and promote the outstanding work of artists with disability,
259
00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:50,150
so, and disability that encompasses,
260
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:50,320
you know,
261
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,770
a whole different range of experiences.
262
00:14:51,770 --> 00:14:52,430
We're talking death,
263
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:53,180
we're talking disable,
264
00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:54,790
we're talking chronically ill,
265
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:55,480
mentally ill,
266
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:55,710
you know,
267
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,890
all of these things that perhaps,
268
00:14:57,900 --> 00:14:58,310
you know,
269
00:14:58,310 --> 00:15:01,150
people caught up with what is disability as an identity,
270
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:01,360
you know,
271
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,560
don't worry about all of that.
272
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:04,340
It's just putting work on stage,
273
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:06,730
that's really phenomenal and it's about the performing arts.
274
00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:07,540
So, it's music,
275
00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:07,990
dance,
276
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:08,400
theatre,
277
00:15:08,410 --> 00:15:08,940
comedy,
278
00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:09,830
poetry,
279
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,240
I don't think I've missed anything cabaret circus,
280
00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:16,450
I have missed things and so much more and you know,
281
00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:22,580
sometimes a combination of all of these things like Oliver combining cabaret and musical theatre and quite a bit of comedy if I do say so.
282
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:23,420
Um,
283
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:25,780
this year it was originally meant to be four days,
284
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:26,820
it turned out to be three.
285
00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:27,550
Thanks, Covid.
286
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:28,620
But that's okay.
287
00:15:28,630 --> 00:15:30,690
We had three tracks to the festival,
288
00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:36,160
we had a career track which is existed to provide workshop opportunities,
289
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,760
professional development for artists with disability who,
290
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:39,770
you know,
291
00:15:39,770 --> 00:15:43,580
you can't access the same opportunities elsewhere because they're just not accessible.
292
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:44,550
And part of that,
293
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:51,020
we partnered with arts access Australia to bring their meeting place for him to what was meant to be to Brisbane.
294
00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:51,390
But again,
295
00:15:51,390 --> 00:15:52,240
Covid change plans,
296
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:52,990
but it was virtual,
297
00:15:52,990 --> 00:15:56,930
We hosted it and it was great and then there's community tracks.
298
00:15:56,930 --> 00:16:04,540
So, thinking about the community choirs and theatre dance ensembles that we're all familiar with probably when we think of disability arts,
299
00:16:04,540 --> 00:16:18,830
we think of those groups and then we have the creative track, and it was really important to me and to the whole festival that the creative track focused on disability led professional standard work.
300
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:26,930
And when we say professional standard were aware of the fact that a lot of our artists may not have had that opportunity to present professional standard work,
301
00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:31,070
but it's about challenging what the professional standard even looks like.
302
00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:33,730
If we only see abled bodies on stage,
303
00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:35,430
we're going to think that that's professional,
304
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:39,630
but there's nothing unprofessional about a disabled body on the same stage,
305
00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:42,730
in the same lighting with the same sound and etcetera etcetera.
306
00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:43,820
So yeah,
307
00:16:43,820 --> 00:16:45,670
we had all of this phenomenal show.
308
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:49,560
We had Lauren Watson's incredible aerial theatre work nerve.
309
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,650
She'd been working on it for a few years.
310
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,100
We had Andy Snelling our soul interstate artist.
311
00:16:55,100 --> 00:17:03,070
We took a risk with a one person touring party to come up from Adelaide and she blew us away with her incredible theatre work.
312
00:17:03,070 --> 00:17:03,820
Happy go wrong.
313
00:17:03,820 --> 00:17:08,580
Which had clowning and verbatim theatre elements and it was just really beautiful.
314
00:17:08,590 --> 00:17:09,240
Oh my gosh,
315
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,060
I could talk forever.
316
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:13,110
The podcast would just be me raving about every single artist.
317
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:16,050
It's happened a couple of times where you talked about Oliver,
318
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:19,290
you talked about 15 minutes in the conversation,
319
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:21,760
the conversation with Maddie that started it all.
320
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,600
How long did it take you to make that show?
321
00:17:24,610 --> 00:17:30,270
I started that in the height of Covid last year,
322
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:47,310
that access arts and undercover artists were doing a grant program for a mentor ship program, and I received $2000 to develop that 1st 15 minutes with Alex Woodward,
323
00:17:47,310 --> 00:17:54,740
a Brisbane based music theatre producer person that being the technical tent,
324
00:17:54,750 --> 00:18:20,170
check it on your cv Alex and he came on board very early to mentor me through the producing side of it and we also at that stage got onboard louis jones who was a Brisbane based director and he came on board and really helped Finesse that 15 minutes of the show and that was presented at undercover artists online,
325
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:28,770
which Maddie could probably talk more about at some point during this discussion and from there,
326
00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:30,560
Maddie was very kind to say,
327
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:34,720
hey we're doing a in person version next year,
328
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:37,580
do you want to come on board?
329
00:18:37,580 --> 00:18:38,750
And I said yes,
330
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,960
of course I do,
331
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:41,960
let me figure out how to pay for it.
332
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,960
And I was very lucky,
333
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:47,140
I apply tarts Queensland,
334
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:53,300
I got some cost funding for that and so I was able to keep Alex on board,
335
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:59,160
I was able to keep loss on board and I was able to hire my music teacher,
336
00:18:59,170 --> 00:19:01,500
timothy Forrester as a music director.
337
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:02,240
Music designer,
338
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:12,610
was able to hire Freddie comp as lighting and sound designer and I was able to get a big team on board to do my show,
339
00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:15,280
which is not a simple show,
340
00:19:15,290 --> 00:19:20,050
it can we just very quickly because all of us being humble,
341
00:19:20,050 --> 00:19:21,560
how much funding did you get?
342
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,250
$25 and correct me if I'm wrong.
343
00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:25,970
Wasn't this your first grant application?
344
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:27,500
It was my first application.
345
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:29,060
Just throwing that out there.
346
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:32,480
That Oliver in his first grant application for his first solo show,
347
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:33,590
first out of uni,
348
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:34,510
is that correct?
349
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:40,070
First started because I graduated in 2019 and then the world change.
350
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,140
But I think it's,
351
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:55,930
it's absolutely testament to all of the skill and capability and then I think also to the fact that there was an opportunity presented for an accessible development situation program that helped not enable you to do it because you have the capacity to do it all along.
352
00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:59,070
But I kind of just nudge you along a little bit gently.
353
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:05,820
Every artist needs nudges and support in different ways and it's acknowledging that the needs are different across every artist,
354
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:17,160
but that there any making of a new work is its petrifying and I don't write because I'm not that brave imagine making and then being in the work,
355
00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:25,650
but creating something out of nothing where there was no show to go from a zero to a fully produced and successful work.
356
00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:29,790
That's an extraordinary journey for every artist and every artist will have different needs,
357
00:20:29,790 --> 00:20:36,670
but actually a path that actually is tailored to the needs of artists is incredibly important and without it,
358
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,650
people can't make those next steps you were talking about.
359
00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:41,100
And I'm sorry,
360
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:42,720
I don't know the name of the artist from Adelaide.
361
00:20:42,730 --> 00:20:44,300
And you're smelling well,
362
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:48,850
that question about a work that takes has taken many years to produce.
363
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:51,750
Every work takes its own time.
364
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:59,380
You had a year under particular Covid circumstances in a regular year where all your time when it's different,
365
00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:02,960
it might not have come two full shape within a year.
366
00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:03,690
And the thing is,
367
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,530
I don't think I could have made that show before Covid.
368
00:21:07,540 --> 00:21:14,770
I jokingly said I want to do an autism musical cabaret thing at some 20.4 years and years and years.
369
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,560
But it was during Covid when everything was paused and everything was shut down.
370
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:31,270
I was finally able to reflect on where I am now and all the things that have happened to me throughout my life and put it in a larger context.
371
00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:39,860
But I wouldn't have been able to do that if we hadn't been shut down because it forces us to reflect.
372
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,210
And it was that reflection that I had that light bulb moment of,
373
00:21:44,220 --> 00:21:44,880
oh no,
374
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,010
this is a musical with a beginning a middle and an end.
375
00:21:49,010 --> 00:21:54,560
And the kind of arc of it only happened because I was nothing else was happening.
376
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:56,090
That in real life,
377
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,920
you're constantly moving and life is happening.
378
00:21:58,930 --> 00:22:01,350
So you're not noticing the narrative forming.
379
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:02,360
Yeah,
380
00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:04,000
so it's good that life stopped happening.
381
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,760
So the story of your life could happen.
382
00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:07,640
Well,
383
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:07,810
look,
384
00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:10,030
there are all sorts of strange covid silver linings.
385
00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:17,740
And I think again in the myriad of stories that different artists will have this last period of time we've lost some artists from the industry,
386
00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:18,360
they've gone just,
387
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:18,460
no,
388
00:22:18,460 --> 00:22:19,210
this is too hard.
389
00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:23,530
But then other artists have found their way in in a way it's been an extraordinary time.
390
00:22:23,530 --> 00:22:28,530
So I think it's going to take the world a few years to recover and reflect.
391
00:22:28,530 --> 00:22:31,910
And then the next wave of work that comes from this time I'm really interested in.
392
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,270
Absolutely,
393
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:33,670
I just,
394
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,930
I've heard whisperings and mumblings from different colleagues are like,
395
00:22:36,940 --> 00:22:37,390
oh,
396
00:22:37,390 --> 00:22:38,530
what are you working on?
397
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:39,180
Oh,
398
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:40,550
this hint of an idea.
399
00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:41,370
It could be really,
400
00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,030
really great at what stages are going to be on in three years time.
401
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,830
All of this magical connections and networking,
402
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:49,420
but also brainstorming,
403
00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:54,330
that just happens over zoom because you're trapped in your house or whatever.
404
00:22:54,340 --> 00:23:07,260
But it's interesting and thinking back to last year where everything was online realizing the extraordinary amount of access that people who in the past maybe hadn't been able to make it in the theatre into the theatre.
405
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:11,230
Those conversations were really quite mind boggling for me where people are saying,
406
00:23:11,230 --> 00:23:11,380
no,
407
00:23:11,380 --> 00:23:13,810
this is the first time I've actually been able to engage.
408
00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:14,760
Oh,
409
00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:21,420
so how do we keep this channel of communication and engagement open rather than it being a well,
410
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:21,650
yes,
411
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:22,930
it was a product of the time,
412
00:23:22,930 --> 00:23:23,850
but you kind of go,
413
00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:27,060
it actually should be a way that we communicate all the time.
414
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:27,860
Absolutely,
415
00:23:27,870 --> 00:23:28,670
absolutely.
416
00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:33,350
We were so hoping and wishing and praying that we could have an online component to the festival this year.
417
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:35,660
And for a number of different reasons it wasn't feasible.
418
00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:38,620
But that's something we're definitely looking to because it's twice as much work,
419
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:39,130
twice,
420
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:40,600
twice as much money.
421
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:41,530
Yeah,
422
00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:42,960
it's,
423
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:43,430
yes,
424
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:43,810
yes.
425
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:45,930
So we've got to find the money to do that.
426
00:23:45,940 --> 00:23:48,250
But what's interesting is that we've all gone,
427
00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:48,670
oh no,
428
00:23:48,670 --> 00:23:56,330
we have to because just the sheer accessibility have crossed across time and space for people has been amazing.
429
00:23:56,330 --> 00:24:00,460
And I've spoken to a number of disabled people about this for years and years,
430
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:10,520
they were saying I can work but I can't do the 9-5 in the office thing that was required and can I work from home,
431
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,820
can I do zoom in or not?
432
00:24:12,820 --> 00:24:13,580
That we had soon,
433
00:24:13,580 --> 00:24:16,030
but Skype or you know,
434
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,060
video conferencing and employees were always,
435
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,110
oh no,
436
00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:36,930
we have to have the 9 to 5 office things and then suddenly Covid forced everyone to up skill even though this is what disabled people have been doing long before covid,
437
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:40,430
but they needed everyone else to up skill essentially.
438
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:40,780
Yeah,
439
00:24:40,780 --> 00:24:41,140
I was like,
440
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:44,230
come on guys like I'm used to this already Tiktok hurry up.
441
00:24:44,240 --> 00:25:04,740
But having been in a company that had to go from everybody feeling fairly computer literate the freak out when everybody said they had to log into an unfamiliar thing and how do I do this because people pride themselves in seem incompetent and no one seemed competent in the first two weeks and soon we're all going,
442
00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:08,330
it was comic really.
443
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:21,320
But that happened across the country across the world that suddenly people who didn't have to use that tool before had to become competent in it very quickly and we did and the tool got better.
444
00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:21,910
Yes.
445
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,390
Poor little guys who invented zoom.
446
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:25,090
I felt a bit sorry for them and suddenly everyone's going,
447
00:25:25,090 --> 00:25:25,200
well,
448
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,330
it doesn't do this and it doesn't do this.
449
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:32,040
It was like it was a failing company before coverage and suddenly it was the way we survived.
450
00:25:32,050 --> 00:25:32,350
So,
451
00:25:32,350 --> 00:25:32,710
you know,
452
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,270
I hope they're sitting on a beach somewhere going having a month off and going home.
453
00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:38,050
Maybe the pressure can start to ease off a bit.
454
00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:42,020
But that became really interesting.
455
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:48,610
That question of what that communication space is what it allows and so what's been missing before?
456
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:49,230
Yes,
457
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,170
Yeah,
458
00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:50,950
absolutely.
459
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:55,680
We can't go back nor can we afford to do it completely at the same time.
460
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,360
Exactly.
461
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:57,570
So we're figuring out the money,
462
00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:59,390
we're in the days of figuring out the money,
463
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,210
the money side of things is horrific.
464
00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:02,650
I mean,
465
00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:03,410
that's the other thing.
466
00:26:03,410 --> 00:26:03,600
You know,
467
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,060
a lot of what happened and what was able to happen during Covid happened because if she had goodwill people desperate for connection,
468
00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,600
we just found ways to connect.
469
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:16,940
We found ways to make work and I know I was writing was trying to write a show,
470
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:17,950
a couple of different artists,
471
00:26:17,950 --> 00:26:22,340
friends of mine through zoom and we weren't getting paid to do it.
472
00:26:22,340 --> 00:26:25,830
We were just doing it because we had time and we had to do something.
473
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:27,210
We had to stay creative.
474
00:26:27,220 --> 00:26:28,230
But now,
475
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:28,720
okay,
476
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:37,700
how do we transition into a sustainable method of working and a sustainable audience development strategy through making it work accessible online,
477
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:41,700
through inviting people in and seeing what we do and how we do it.
478
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,810
And there's no quick fix or easy answer.
479
00:26:43,810 --> 00:26:48,420
But it goes back to that whole thing about what Oliver's saying,
480
00:26:48,430 --> 00:26:53,200
there are 20 questions or 20 decisions that are made before you can get to that final one.
481
00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:59,270
It's the same thing with how do we continue that accessibility trajectory for the work that we make.
482
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,060
And the thing about the money side of theatre is one of the things that most people don't see.
483
00:27:04,060 --> 00:27:12,350
Like for the longest time I was coming to see shows here or at the bar or any of the myriad of other companies doing amazing work in Brisbane.
484
00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:15,200
And I just had a good time at the theatre.
485
00:27:15,210 --> 00:27:18,130
I was a general audience human.
486
00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:29,150
And it was only when I was getting to uni and meeting the people that were making that work and they were telling me the horror stories of what is going on behind the scenes where I'm going,
487
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,170
I mean I saw that show,
488
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,860
I either liked it or didn't like it depending on whatever the show was.
489
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,050
And to hear that feedback of what was going on behind the scenes somehow made that show.
490
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:55,010
Even if I really didn't like it at the time that I saw it fascinating because there's so many choices and so much like the money behind it and the things behind it,
491
00:27:55,020 --> 00:28:00,910
it's more complicated than we can ever see on stage and the audience shouldn't see that.
492
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,540
Yeah.
493
00:28:01,550 --> 00:28:01,940
You know,
494
00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:02,870
they really shouldn't,
495
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:09,920
they should just be able to go and have their night where our job is to inspire and challenge and entertain them.
496
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:10,210
You know,
497
00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:10,520
they,
498
00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:13,990
it's about them on that night shouldn't be sitting there going,
499
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:14,060
oh,
500
00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:16,380
that fight carrier was probably about two grand.
501
00:28:16,390 --> 00:28:18,620
You shouldn't be able to cost out What?
502
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:20,830
Although it's sometimes fun to do that.
503
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:24,760
I did a show once where we had to have a beautiful dress trashed each night.
504
00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:29,330
It must have been coloured Dunnegan donated address.
505
00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:36,510
This thing came out and it turns out it was made with something that could be washed in the washing machine and she gave us two.
506
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,990
So this thing and it was the new season stuff.
507
00:28:38,990 --> 00:28:46,170
So there were all these like society women looking at this thing and they knew exactly how much that dress cost and we were trashing it each night and they were horrified.
508
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:48,340
So sometimes it can work in your favourite,
509
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:49,830
but most of the time,
510
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:50,160
No,
511
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,950
I mean at the moment we've got returned to the dirt on stage,
512
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:54,040
which is deep in his play.
513
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:54,970
It's phenomenal.
514
00:28:56,380 --> 00:28:58,170
It's the recycled play,
515
00:28:58,540 --> 00:28:59,630
the challenge with this,
516
00:28:59,630 --> 00:28:59,830
you know,
517
00:28:59,830 --> 00:29:04,200
in the scheme of a year where things are a bit tight and we've had a couple of like we had Boy swallows Universe,
518
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,780
which was incredibly expensive is what it is.
519
00:29:06,790 --> 00:29:12,070
But the way I snuck in a different one is by keeping the budget super low because Renee Mulder said,
520
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,870
I'll make it out of stuff that's already there.
521
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,650
So we've pillaged,
522
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:18,540
you could actually have proper bingo.
523
00:29:18,550 --> 00:29:21,260
There are things from so many different plays,
524
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:21,930
costumes.
525
00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:27,350
A lot of the costumes apart from the suits of the funeral directors were just in stock here.
526
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:34,660
We have storage here of things that we haven't used from other shows and like the all of the golfing stuff.
527
00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:36,850
They don't own all of that.
528
00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:42,800
So we find tricky ways as a big theatre company to save money and cut corners in cost.
529
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:44,070
But yeah,
530
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,790
it's a terribly expensive thing that we do.
531
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:54,180
One of my favourite quotes that I think about in this conversation is no one leaves the theatre humming the scenery that look,
532
00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:54,710
I don't know.
533
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:57,870
Sometimes there's some fab scenery.
534
00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:58,220
I look,
535
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:58,890
I actually,
536
00:29:58,890 --> 00:29:59,880
I would dispute that.
537
00:29:59,890 --> 00:30:04,330
But what I think about when I think about that quote is what you're talking about.
538
00:30:04,330 --> 00:30:07,000
If someone is coming out of the show going,
539
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:10,100
that was some expensive scenery.
540
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:10,660
It's true.
541
00:30:10,670 --> 00:30:13,300
You don't want that to be the primary comment.
542
00:30:13,310 --> 00:30:15,770
That's saying that they didn't,
543
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:19,570
if they're talking about those periphery things,
544
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:22,270
then whatever the show was trying to say.
545
00:30:22,340 --> 00:30:22,780
Yeah,
546
00:30:22,780 --> 00:30:26,390
I know the conversation should be about what the show was trying to say.
547
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,610
The conversation should be about what matters inside it,
548
00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:30,570
not how we've made it.
549
00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:31,130
It's true.
550
00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:36,040
Like I loved returned to the dirt and my conversations are about what it says about.
551
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,760
Yes.
552
00:30:36,770 --> 00:30:37,240
Yes.
553
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,840
And not about the gulf costumes about,
554
00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:41,600
although they were excellent.
555
00:30:41,610 --> 00:30:41,980
Yes,
556
00:30:41,980 --> 00:30:43,290
completely free.
557
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:43,600
Yeah.
558
00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:45,670
That picture didn't cost a sense.
559
00:30:45,670 --> 00:30:49,750
So what I'm hearing is that the highest cost of the budget with consumables,
560
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:52,030
meaning the popcorn that Steve eats on states.
561
00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:53,110
A lot of popcorn.
562
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:53,460
Okay.
563
00:30:53,530 --> 00:30:55,040
I was wondering popcorn.
564
00:30:55,050 --> 00:30:56,580
I was wondering about that because I was like,
565
00:30:56,580 --> 00:30:57,620
hang on a minute,
566
00:30:57,630 --> 00:30:59,880
but it doesn't seem to be a lot left in that bag.
567
00:30:59,890 --> 00:31:02,320
He goes through a bag of popcorn a night.
568
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,590
That is an expensive artists.
569
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:04,110
There you go.
570
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,090
So now we know the inner workings returned to the dirt.
571
00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:10,760
It's the popcorn expect there's a popcorn and a biscuit.
572
00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:11,260
Ah,
573
00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:11,650
yes.
574
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,140
It's biscuit I saw and I was like,
575
00:31:14,150 --> 00:31:14,380
oh,
576
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:17,270
I could really go for a short red cream right now.
577
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,750
That's the benefit of sitting in the front row.
578
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,020
You see the exact well,
579
00:31:21,030 --> 00:31:22,560
that's what I love about that space.
580
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,980
And you talk about the confronting thing.
581
00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:26,690
If your artistic happens to be sitting in the front row,
582
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:34,590
when you make a show in a venue like that you're making for the front row people a slightly different show to the back row people,
583
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,830
you've got to have enough big picture for the story to play up the back,
584
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,180
but you've also got to offer some details to the front row and the detail matters.
585
00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:45,000
You can't get away with anything in that space.
586
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,080
It is as you know,
587
00:31:46,090 --> 00:31:46,440
Oliver,
588
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,080
it's so close because people can see what biscuit goes into the mouth.
589
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:51,570
You kind of go,
590
00:31:51,570 --> 00:31:52,620
it's easy to eat.
591
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:54,570
Some of those are honest biscuits,
592
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:55,150
easy to,
593
00:31:55,150 --> 00:31:55,400
to.
594
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,870
But you know,
595
00:31:55,870 --> 00:31:57,750
you had a short one of the shortbread ones,
596
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:58,910
that's a lot of dry biscuit.
597
00:31:58,910 --> 00:32:04,580
I was counting the crumbs coming out of the mental as he says,
598
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:05,920
a few fabulous lines.
599
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,390
So I was like,
600
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:06,660
oh,
601
00:32:06,660 --> 00:32:07,960
that was about seven crime.
602
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:09,300
Yeah,
603
00:32:09,310 --> 00:32:13,860
It's also phenomenal though to that space and the versatility of it,
604
00:32:13,940 --> 00:32:17,330
knowing how many different shows can be brought to life in that space.
605
00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:17,910
You go,
606
00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:18,550
The Bille Brown.
607
00:32:18,550 --> 00:32:18,790
Okay,
608
00:32:18,790 --> 00:32:19,830
it's a corner stage,
609
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:20,370
That's great.
610
00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:21,200
What does that mean?
611
00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:23,370
How many different stories do you tell?
612
00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:23,700
I mean,
613
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:27,440
I think about what we were able to do with undercover artist festival and go,
614
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,750
this is so different to a Queensland theatre mainstage.
615
00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:32,000
But oh my goodness,
616
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,390
it's a very welcoming spaces.
617
00:32:33,390 --> 00:32:34,500
Such a welcoming space.
618
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,060
You can make it your own.
619
00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:38,010
What's it like standing on the stage?
620
00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:39,780
It was when I first went in,
621
00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:40,070
I'm like,
622
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:40,640
oh my God,
623
00:32:40,650 --> 00:32:43,140
I as a single person on this stage,
624
00:32:43,150 --> 00:32:52,080
I'm going to like felt for a while that I was just going to melt in that space because it's a big space,
625
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,700
but it's also an intimate space and finding that balance.
626
00:32:54,710 --> 00:33:03,830
But thanks to the work of louis jones who did an amazing job creating the world through simple set,
627
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,850
but it's really just a couple of placards,
628
00:33:06,980 --> 00:33:11,050
costume coat rack and a chair and a table,
629
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:14,560
but that creates the world of the thing.
630
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,900
And so then I'm in the world of that and I'm not in the Bille Brown space anymore.
631
00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:25,310
And that was comforting and it was overwhelming,
632
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:32,560
but also an amazing opportunity because I've been coming to this space for so long and as an emerging artist,
633
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,700
you dream of getting onto that stage and then to be there.
634
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:38,640
It was a gift,
635
00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:42,120
but also a terrifying things simultaneously.
636
00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:43,190
It's an interesting one though,
637
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:43,830
it doesn't fight,
638
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:44,640
you know,
639
00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:49,100
it's not because you're straight the audience when they see the walls,
640
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:50,270
they're not that far away.
641
00:33:50,270 --> 00:33:52,530
It's not a mysterious cavern of a space,
642
00:33:52,540 --> 00:33:56,340
not in the same way about the playhouses that can be that can be really,
643
00:33:56,350 --> 00:33:58,150
it's a lovely love love for you as well.
644
00:33:58,150 --> 00:33:59,020
But so big.
645
00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:01,380
You wonder how far it goes backstage.
646
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:01,880
You go,
647
00:34:01,890 --> 00:34:02,220
look,
648
00:34:02,220 --> 00:34:04,380
I know the river is somewhere around here,
649
00:34:04,390 --> 00:34:06,000
but I'm not too sure.
650
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,920
I need a compass.
651
00:34:06,930 --> 00:34:10,430
But when you're standing centre stage and the Bill Brown,
652
00:34:10,430 --> 00:34:13,490
you can almost see the eyes of the people in the background,
653
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:15,550
which means that they can see yours.
654
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,680
So all your subtext is very present.
655
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:19,050
Good.
656
00:34:19,050 --> 00:34:22,850
We have this conversation after all of it.
657
00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:25,160
Have we had this conversation before hand?
658
00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:26,770
Yeah,
659
00:34:26,780 --> 00:34:28,910
it would be a very different show.
660
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,610
But I've gotten a very panicked phone call.
661
00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:30,950
Yes.
662
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:32,930
You would have definitely gotten a very panicked phone.
663
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,810
But it's interesting artists work towards a particular space.
664
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:39,210
You know,
665
00:34:39,210 --> 00:34:40,580
I'd love to do that.
666
00:34:40,590 --> 00:34:42,300
And it then takes time.
667
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:42,680
Like you said,
668
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:51,300
you talked for years about wanting to do to do your show or version of your show and then the time happens and you kind of becomes inevitable at a certain point.
669
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,590
And then circumstances mean that you're there.
670
00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:54,170
Now,
671
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,760
now there's no stopping you.
672
00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:59,040
I believe that some stories almost demand to be told,
673
00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:59,450
right?
674
00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:00,210
The nuggets,
675
00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:04,030
they rise up and they have to rise.
676
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,410
It's hard to force the story.
677
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:05,800
Yes.
678
00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:06,610
Oh,
679
00:35:06,850 --> 00:35:08,340
as an artistic director,
680
00:35:08,350 --> 00:35:11,320
you find that you're talking to people and they want to,
681
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,530
but you can you feel sometimes that they're not quite ready.
682
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:15,300
Absolutely.
683
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:21,340
And sometimes they want to be encouraged ahead of their readiness and sometimes they actually don't.
684
00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:27,630
and sometimes I might be dragging behind a little bit and you just have to go now the idea is great,
685
00:35:27,630 --> 00:35:28,220
come on.
686
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:28,820
You know,
687
00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:29,630
we can do this,
688
00:35:29,630 --> 00:35:30,450
we can do this together.
689
00:35:30,450 --> 00:35:32,330
I mean the whole process of programming,
690
00:35:32,330 --> 00:35:39,300
the festival was quite well because we had an expressions of interest period and we had a couple of different artists that I reached out to like Oliver and you know,
691
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:41,860
in all of this case I had to because I saw the development,
692
00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:42,250
I was like,
693
00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:42,750
no,
694
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,210
like that is that is something that belongs in this festival.
695
00:35:46,210 --> 00:35:46,860
We need this,
696
00:35:46,860 --> 00:35:54,950
it says something really important and I believe in this work and this artist and then you look at some of the expressions of interest and you go like this artist does phenomenal work.
697
00:35:54,950 --> 00:36:02,200
But this idea doesn't feel like the right opportunity for this festival and it's really hard to let go of some of those because you go,
698
00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:02,710
oh,
699
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:06,450
that that particular show would work great at the powerhouse for example,
700
00:36:06,530 --> 00:36:18,210
in its cultural hub space probably on the turbine platform where anyone could walk in and out as opposed to a corner stage at the State Theatre company and it's really tough.
701
00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:20,250
You feel like you're breaking hearts along the way,
702
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:22,060
but at the same time,
703
00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:22,400
you know,
704
00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:36,140
I would much rather brake carts by trying to serve the work as it demands to be served and told rather than use the work for your own ends in building exactly at the expense of the artist or that work Exactly.
705
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:36,660
Exactly.
706
00:36:36,660 --> 00:36:40,720
I don't like the term setting people up to fail because I don't think that's it.
707
00:36:40,730 --> 00:36:45,840
But I do think that there's something about what we're trying to do is profile and promote outstanding work.
708
00:36:46,030 --> 00:36:50,050
Then we have to support outstanding work the way that it should be presented.
709
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:52,380
Not the way that I you know,
710
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:52,640
I mean,
711
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,040
I'm an artist myself.
712
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,010
I can't go to Oliver and go,
713
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:55,400
you know what,
714
00:36:55,410 --> 00:36:56,870
I would have done it differently.
715
00:36:56,870 --> 00:37:00,840
I would have changed this set element or I would that's not what the story is about.
716
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,600
It's not the No Bang Theory featuring Madeline Little.
717
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,950
It's Oliver Heatherington-Page and he deserves to tell his story the way that he needs to.
718
00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:10,230
So yeah,
719
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:10,430
look,
720
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:14,240
it's but there are sleepless nights involved and I'm sure you'd have the same thing where you go,
721
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:19,400
how do you piece works together and even just works that are brilliant,
722
00:37:19,410 --> 00:37:23,540
but don't fit alongside the four others that kills me.
723
00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:29,040
But then sometimes when there are works that are similar because people stories rise up in a time,
724
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,490
right?
725
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:33,750
And sometimes people are trying to tell similar stories,
726
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,850
it's particular to them.
727
00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:38,790
But from an audience on the outside point of view,
728
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:50,940
they can seem too similar and that would be to the detriment of both are so saying no to one because if you take a gamble that the other one will work more in this time and that just,
729
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:51,220
I mean,
730
00:37:51,330 --> 00:37:51,780
you know,
731
00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:52,830
look,
732
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,340
I love being an artistic director,
733
00:37:54,340 --> 00:37:55,440
don't get me wrong,
734
00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:58,460
but most of my job is saying no to people.
735
00:37:58,730 --> 00:38:02,100
We program eight shows a year here at Queensland here,
736
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:04,310
that's only eight s is yeah,
737
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,830
there's a lot of knows how did you manage that?
738
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,430
There was there was a fair amount of,
739
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,980
I don't know if trepidation is the right word.
740
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:17,950
I had to go in with an excitement for what the festival would be.
741
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:18,660
So,
742
00:38:18,670 --> 00:38:20,160
in looking at the bigger picture,
743
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,150
I had to go,
744
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:21,880
okay,
745
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:28,270
I can choose to spend my time really grieving the works that we lose or that aren't ready yet,
746
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,620
or I can go in with the knowledge that these artists,
747
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:36,310
there are other ways that we can support them and perhaps by putting certain shows on stage,
748
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,980
they see that are inspired by it,
749
00:38:38,980 --> 00:38:40,050
are influenced by it,
750
00:38:40,050 --> 00:38:45,830
or they can join in our professional development opportunities or even just have a chat about.
751
00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:48,340
I was a big fan of works that I really,
752
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:48,890
really wanted,
753
00:38:48,890 --> 00:38:55,660
but I had to say no to a really thoughtful s a of a rejection email just outlining why?
754
00:38:55,670 --> 00:39:00,330
Because I think it's really important for artists to also know that they're not being,
755
00:39:00,340 --> 00:39:04,410
we're not saying no to the artists were saying no to this particular opportunity.
756
00:39:04,420 --> 00:39:05,120
And,
757
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:05,380
you know,
758
00:39:05,380 --> 00:39:06,890
one of the works in particular,
759
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:09,380
my heart actually broke quite a bit,
760
00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:12,080
but it was a very intimate performance.
761
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:12,610
Are,
762
00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:12,890
you know,
763
00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:19,890
one on one experience where we basically needed the whole festival to put it on and across that whole festival,
764
00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:21,920
only 30 people would experience it.
765
00:39:21,930 --> 00:39:24,820
And we had too many concerns around logistics,
766
00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:26,260
space ticketing,
767
00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:28,840
covid safe protocols,
768
00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:30,060
that it just was like,
769
00:39:30,070 --> 00:39:30,650
oh,
770
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,330
my heart breaks.
771
00:39:32,340 --> 00:39:34,440
I want to be part of this work.
772
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,630
I want to be a participant in this intimate experience,
773
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:37,990
but we can't make it happen.
774
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,650
How do we make sure that that door stays open to that artist who is doing incredible things.
775
00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:44,370
So,
776
00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:45,040
I don't know,
777
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:54,120
there are lots of different elements and I think there's also a heavier weight involved knowing that in the performing arts there are so few opportunities for deaf and disabled artists.
778
00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:54,960
So I have,
779
00:39:54,970 --> 00:39:56,780
I have to say no to them.
780
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:58,060
It is,
781
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:00,670
it's a little bit upsetting because I go,
782
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,630
I know how hard you work and how few opportunities are available.
783
00:40:06,210 --> 00:40:08,490
I don't want this to feel like another door shut.
784
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:14,040
I want it to be a different door is opening on a different path or a different opportunity.
785
00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:19,910
And that possibly a lot of that comes from being a disabled artist myself and being on the receiving end of those nose.
786
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:20,910
Oh Maddie,
787
00:40:20,910 --> 00:40:24,900
you'll never work in the arts unless you fix the way you walk.
788
00:40:24,910 --> 00:40:25,360
I'm like,
789
00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:26,030
okay,
790
00:40:26,110 --> 00:40:26,330
I mean,
791
00:40:26,330 --> 00:40:28,480
that person had to watch me do my opening speech,
792
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:29,360
the festival.
793
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,490
So that was that was a nice,
794
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:31,020
uh,
795
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:31,240
you know,
796
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:32,280
full circle moment.
797
00:40:32,290 --> 00:40:32,970
Little winds,
798
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:34,080
little winds.
799
00:40:34,090 --> 00:40:34,520
I was like,
800
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:34,730
oh,
801
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:35,690
you're keeping your head down,
802
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:36,520
not talking to me,
803
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:36,980
that's fine.
804
00:40:36,990 --> 00:40:39,480
But that's the sort of thing that I heard.
805
00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:40,660
And if I'm hearing it,
806
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:42,940
so many other people would be hearing it too.
807
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:46,770
I can certainly say I experienced a lot of it definitely during university as well.
808
00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:47,480
I studied a B.
809
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:47,640
F.
810
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:56,920
A in drama and that program is set up for a certain type of body and a certain type of mind and how they make theatre and my body was not that body.
811
00:40:56,930 --> 00:41:04,350
So how do I say no to someone who's had that experience whilst also welcoming them in.
812
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,740
It's a very tricky balance and I haven't perfected it.
813
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:10,610
But I've also had the benefit of Brisbane Festival.
814
00:41:10,610 --> 00:41:12,240
Artistic Director Louise Bezzina,
815
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,950
she's been my mentor through the process.
816
00:41:13,950 --> 00:41:17,460
And so it's been really helpful just having someone going to your instincts are right,
817
00:41:17,470 --> 00:41:18,530
you can keep going.
818
00:41:18,910 --> 00:41:19,670
It's okay.
819
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:20,700
It's unfortunate,
820
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:22,540
but we just have to do the best we can.
821
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:26,520
And you talk about similar shows existing.
822
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,220
I know of a work based out of Melbourne called the Asspy Hour,
823
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:33,230
which is a very similar work to mind.
824
00:41:33,230 --> 00:41:34,980
They're both autism,
825
00:41:34,990 --> 00:41:35,500
music,
826
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:35,920
theatre,
827
00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:40,330
cabarets kind of stuff and I haven't seen the work.
828
00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:43,550
I've only heard wonderful things about this work.
829
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:50,330
And they reached out to me in the lead up to the festival and said that I think they said that they'd applied.
830
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:51,080
Yes,
831
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,050
they had for this festival and it didn't work out,
832
00:41:55,050 --> 00:41:56,860
but they were super congratulatory.
833
00:41:56,860 --> 00:41:57,430
And I,
834
00:41:58,110 --> 00:42:05,730
my heart breaks for those artists because I want to see that work because I as an autistic artist that loves music,
835
00:42:05,730 --> 00:42:06,050
theatre,
836
00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:08,960
I want to see autistic music theatre performances.
837
00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:10,670
So I want to see it.
838
00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:14,010
But I understand from a Maddie business perspective,
839
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:17,780
my show and that show can't coexist at the same time.
840
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:18,850
And let me tell you,
841
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:20,690
we talked about it for hours.
842
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,180
We talked about it for hours.
843
00:42:22,180 --> 00:42:28,940
The quality of the material in both works was so outstanding and my stomach is rumbling.
844
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:29,130
Now,
845
00:42:29,130 --> 00:42:31,720
I'm sorry if you're picking that up.
846
00:42:31,730 --> 00:42:35,260
But the quality was there and it was a really hard decision.
847
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:39,470
And if you go back to I think drafts one through six of the program,
848
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:45,220
you probably would have seen both of them there and trying to shuffle them around and it just it wasn't going to work.
849
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:47,830
And yet it broke my heart,
850
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,590
but it was one of those moments where I had to go,
851
00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:50,310
you know what,
852
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,600
what are the factors that can help me make this decision?
853
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:58,740
And it did come down to covid how safe is it planning more interstate than local artists?
854
00:42:58,750 --> 00:43:05,150
Is that I've really committed to Oliver in this work because I believe in it and it needs to be seen by the Brisbane theatre scene.
855
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,460
So that's what we have to do.
856
00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:11,490
And that's not to say that the Asspy Hour may not Come to us in 2023,
857
00:43:11,490 --> 00:43:13,010
I think that would be fantastic.
858
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,160
But you know.
859
00:43:14,170 --> 00:43:15,230
Yeah,
860
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:16,850
thank you for breaking my heart.
861
00:43:16,850 --> 00:43:17,430
I bring that up.
862
00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:21,020
I wouldn't have brought it up.
863
00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:22,460
Except yeah,
864
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:25,020
I've had conversations with look,
865
00:43:25,020 --> 00:43:33,230
that's also that thing of you as an artist when you do receive a know how do you not let that turn you against other artists?
866
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:38,020
That's a really big conversation that we're having more as a theatre community.
867
00:43:38,030 --> 00:43:38,840
I really like that.
868
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,770
There's been a conversation between you and them as makers going,
869
00:43:43,780 --> 00:43:44,240
look,
870
00:43:44,250 --> 00:43:44,950
you know,
871
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,680
working for similar territory.
872
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:47,120
Yeah,
873
00:43:47,130 --> 00:43:48,330
like supporting each other.
874
00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:48,870
Absolutely.
875
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:51,190
And actually realizing sometimes your paths are going to cross,
876
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:56,250
sometimes your parents will never cross because the same thing will actually come up for a period of time.
877
00:43:56,250 --> 00:44:02,890
But it's just forming the short list for the Queensland Premier's Drama Award that's happening right at the moment.
878
00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:04,450
And it's really interesting.
879
00:44:04,460 --> 00:44:08,840
We saw a lot of people from around the country writing similar stories.
880
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,120
There are lots of trauma stories being written at the moment in different ways.
881
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:18,460
People have had time and they're writing quite close to themselves and looking at them all.
882
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:21,600
It's kind of like of the players about this topic.
883
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,930
There are four or five.
884
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:35,260
So which you're already making that thing of the choice is happening in that and trying to reassure playwrights that just because one was their playwriting cries that actually goes to production,
885
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:36,940
you're going to make a choice with players,
886
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:39,010
they're further along formally.
887
00:44:39,090 --> 00:44:41,470
So sometimes it's the work is further along.
888
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,030
Sometimes it's put in a different way,
889
00:44:44,030 --> 00:44:46,280
but there is no science to it.
890
00:44:46,290 --> 00:44:48,070
That's what I try and reassure people.
891
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:54,230
It's an artist like yourself sitting in their choice decision spot going,
892
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:55,380
I'm going to choose one or the other.
893
00:44:55,380 --> 00:45:03,000
There is no right choice is just the choice that you as an artist are going to make with the best of intense in supporting both the artist and the work in the time that you're in.
894
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:03,940
Absolutely.
895
00:45:03,950 --> 00:45:11,010
And there's also that element to of having to shut out the inevitable critique of the decisions that you make because certainly,
896
00:45:11,010 --> 00:45:11,200
I mean,
897
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,090
we did the post event surveys and they were I mean,
898
00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:17,910
the vast majority of feedback was overwhelmingly positive and we did get,
899
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:18,200
you know,
900
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,010
some people who weren't happy with the decisions that I made and how,
901
00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:22,560
I mean,
902
00:45:22,570 --> 00:45:26,420
I've been meaning to actually email you about this for a while and just how do you deal with that?
903
00:45:26,490 --> 00:45:29,390
Because sometimes it can feel very personal to go.
904
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,060
I know so many,
905
00:45:31,070 --> 00:45:31,540
you know,
906
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:33,580
in search genre,
907
00:45:33,580 --> 00:45:38,160
artists who deserved this spot and I don't think that this other show deserved a spot.
908
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:38,620
I saw it.
909
00:45:38,620 --> 00:45:39,640
And I didn't like it.
910
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:40,240
It's like,
911
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,870
well We have to come back to your art being subjective and that concept that you just said,
912
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:46,430
there is no right decision.
913
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:47,910
It's about what is,
914
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,330
I guess the most instinctive decision,
915
00:45:50,340 --> 00:45:53,000
looking at all of the factors across the board,
916
00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:53,590
like you said,
917
00:45:53,590 --> 00:45:55,370
if you've got 10 plays on the same topic,
918
00:45:55,370 --> 00:45:59,600
which ones rise to the top and that's about the time that you're in.
919
00:45:59,610 --> 00:46:00,080
Yeah,
920
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:01,070
it's about yes.
921
00:46:01,070 --> 00:46:07,980
There's a subjective of like how you are as you're reading and considering and mm and it doesn't,
922
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:12,580
it shouldn't ever mean that it's a complete no to the other works.
923
00:46:12,590 --> 00:46:14,010
It's just at this time.
924
00:46:14,020 --> 00:46:14,680
Absolutely.
925
00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:17,560
And two years down the track with more development,
926
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,170
you absolutely embrace something.
927
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,370
And that's interesting for me in that space between the festivals,
928
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:23,760
in between the programs,
929
00:46:23,770 --> 00:46:29,980
both advocating for other works that I've come across that weren't right for for one of our seasons.
930
00:46:29,980 --> 00:46:30,800
I consciously work,
931
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,770
especially with the Australian plays to recommend writers to other companies and feel.
932
00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:37,510
And then I'll drop a line to someone saying,
933
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:38,030
hey,
934
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,370
you came up in conversation,
935
00:46:39,370 --> 00:46:40,470
I hope you don't mind.
936
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,610
I told them to look,
937
00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:43,920
have a look at on your work.
938
00:46:43,930 --> 00:46:45,190
I hope that's okay.
939
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,210
Always try and check because the work could have changed the artist could have moved on from it.
940
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,130
But it's also that thing of trying to reassure artists that just the no,
941
00:46:53,130 --> 00:46:54,560
on that day doesn't mean you know,
942
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,210
forever.
943
00:46:55,220 --> 00:47:03,090
It just means I know on that day and I think about that because I apply for the I don't know if I make the short list and I'm sorry,
944
00:47:04,250 --> 00:47:06,730
that's what we're in the middle of right now,
945
00:47:06,730 --> 00:47:08,700
we're just coming towards the long list,
946
00:47:09,180 --> 00:47:10,500
I'm sure is great.
947
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,150
I have no idea if you have yet because I don't know,
948
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,050
I don't know.
949
00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:21,430
I'm literally I'm literally a half a day away from actually getting all of the names that that go with the place.
950
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:22,760
So I don't know,
951
00:47:23,470 --> 00:47:25,670
like no,
952
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:26,180
no,
953
00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:30,380
I'm genuinely not worried.
954
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:37,750
And I bring it up to say I have confidence in my script that I've even since submitting it,
955
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,280
it's not the end of the process.
956
00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:44,090
I've already changed that script about five times since submitting it,
957
00:47:44,090 --> 00:47:47,720
but it was on the deadline,
958
00:47:47,730 --> 00:47:51,750
that is where the script was at when I submitted it.
959
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:53,370
What my thinking was about it,
960
00:47:53,370 --> 00:47:59,120
where what I thought it's an unproduced play it on that day.
961
00:47:59,130 --> 00:48:04,610
Thinking about knowing that it has to be produced at the end of this.
962
00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:17,610
I'm also at the time thinking about what can Queensland theatre functionally do in that moment and all those kind of decisions that it might be with a different company in a different time,
963
00:48:17,620 --> 00:48:19,420
in a different circumstance,
964
00:48:19,420 --> 00:48:27,770
a different home look next year's season has to place that came to us through the Queensland Premier Drama Award neither of them won,
965
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:29,100
one was shortlisted,
966
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:37,470
but one was in the round of meetings and that was six years ago that I met Christopher Johnson and stayed in touch with him.
967
00:48:37,470 --> 00:48:38,640
I remember calling and saying,
968
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:39,780
is it okay,
969
00:48:40,270 --> 00:48:44,960
can I stay in touch with that playwright or are you going to keep developing that play because I really want to.
970
00:48:44,970 --> 00:48:51,180
So there are different paths and it's taken years for that player to get ready to be on the stage.
971
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:52,860
Plays will find different pathways.
972
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:59,380
But I think it's also that thing for artists to have faith that you have a faith in your in your script,
973
00:48:59,390 --> 00:49:02,690
that actually it will catch someone,
974
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:05,200
there are players across many different competitions,
975
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,770
which I've read that have found a way to have been in conversations that I really love that play,
976
00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:14,860
that thing of the whole Australian theatre community is looking for great stories,
977
00:49:14,860 --> 00:49:16,210
but we're all looking for different things.
978
00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:18,040
So that thing,
979
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:18,490
I mean,
980
00:49:18,570 --> 00:49:29,350
you'll stay in touch with artists that you said no to because you are deeply invested in the idea of that work coming to stage and we all get on the phone to each other and we talk and you say,
981
00:49:29,350 --> 00:49:29,520
oh,
982
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,350
there's this or I pick up the phone and say,
983
00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:32,380
what do I do about this matter?
984
00:49:32,380 --> 00:49:34,380
And you calm down,
985
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:35,680
you know,
986
00:49:35,690 --> 00:49:42,030
and I think I find that reassuring as an artist that it's not the end of a conversation.
987
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:42,310
No,
988
00:49:42,310 --> 00:49:43,790
it's the start of a different one.
989
00:49:43,870 --> 00:49:45,040
All art is subjective.
990
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:48,890
And so someone could read the script that I've submitted and gone.
991
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:51,610
I absolutely hated that it wasn't funny,
992
00:49:51,620 --> 00:49:53,810
it wasn't whatever.
993
00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:57,270
And I would be upset that someone didn't like my play,
994
00:49:57,270 --> 00:50:03,800
but I also understand that I like it and I have enough faith in it that if someone goes,
995
00:50:03,810 --> 00:50:05,580
it didn't work for me.
996
00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:10,840
Here's why I will receive that feedback and I'm not going to ignore that feed.
997
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,430
And you know what's interesting you say that phrase?
998
00:50:12,430 --> 00:50:13,640
I think we always always here.
999
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:14,400
There's that thing of like,
1000
00:50:14,410 --> 00:50:21,520
I hated it so rarely have I ever heard that word coming out of the amount of an artist who is assessing other people's work,
1001
00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:22,630
just don't do that.
1002
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:23,240
They kind of go,
1003
00:50:23,250 --> 00:50:23,870
oh look,
1004
00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:27,850
this didn't connect with me probably because of this and this in my taste.
1005
00:50:27,860 --> 00:50:28,950
But who else?
1006
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:29,390
Like,
1007
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,940
we didn't connect to someone else.
1008
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:34,010
I could probably count on one hand,
1009
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:34,540
works wherever,
1010
00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:35,800
actively going to hate.
1011
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,190
That.
1012
00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:38,180
That's the movie.
1013
00:50:38,860 --> 00:50:40,040
Didn't see it.
1014
00:50:40,050 --> 00:50:41,190
Didn't see it.
1015
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,550
But look at all those amazing people who we're trying to make something really great.
1016
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:47,300
Absolutely.
1017
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,140
I mean,
1018
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:50,990
we have huge fears that we kind of we go,
1019
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,960
I think all these great people commit to something and it can be awful.
1020
00:50:53,970 --> 00:50:55,430
We know that that's a possibility.
1021
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:56,740
But so rarely,
1022
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:58,500
most of the time we look at something and go,
1023
00:50:58,500 --> 00:50:58,620
oh,
1024
00:50:58,620 --> 00:50:59,350
that didn't work,
1025
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,590
but no one was trying to make something that didn't work.
1026
00:51:01,590 --> 00:51:07,490
And as someone who as well as being an artist works regularly as a critic,
1027
00:51:08,260 --> 00:51:17,190
I always have this weird thing of like when I'm putting on my critic hat understanding the artist point of view.
1028
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:22,410
And even if I am giving a show like a very negative review,
1029
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:31,930
I'm careful to understand that what choices were made for a reason and I respect those choices even if they don't work for me for X,
1030
00:51:31,930 --> 00:51:38,690
y and Z reasons and I'm not going to be nice about it because you know,
1031
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,340
I feel it is my job as a critic.
1032
00:51:41,350 --> 00:51:45,030
If I don't like something to explain why I don't like it,
1033
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:52,030
but I'm doing that out of respect and honesty that I would want critic to do that for my work.
1034
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,780
And it always comes from a place of love and understanding.
1035
00:51:55,780 --> 00:52:13,210
And I think there is a miss demeanour about critics that are failed artists that they're in opposition to as opposed to an extension of the critical dialogue around how and why we make work that core question of who is this work for and it's okay if the answer is,
1036
00:52:13,210 --> 00:52:14,530
it's not for me.
1037
00:52:14,540 --> 00:52:16,260
I've sat in a few different shows.
1038
00:52:16,450 --> 00:52:16,720
Yeah,
1039
00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:23,270
well I was going to say over the past two years over the past year because I didn't see anything to you before where I've just sat there and I've gone,
1040
00:52:23,650 --> 00:52:23,900
look,
1041
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:26,020
I really like some of the choices that were made,
1042
00:52:26,020 --> 00:52:27,450
but I also go out of it going,
1043
00:52:27,460 --> 00:52:28,440
I don't feel moved.
1044
00:52:28,450 --> 00:52:29,950
But this work is not for me.
1045
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,840
This story was not written for me to absorb for me and,
1046
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:34,010
you know,
1047
00:52:34,010 --> 00:52:37,160
my tastes and my sense of humour,
1048
00:52:37,170 --> 00:52:38,840
but I can come out of it going,
1049
00:52:38,850 --> 00:52:39,690
that was still,
1050
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:40,140
you know,
1051
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:42,620
so I the responses,
1052
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:43,710
this happens to everyone.
1053
00:52:43,710 --> 00:52:46,600
There'll be a moment where you don't laugh at something and everyone else seems to,
1054
00:52:46,610 --> 00:52:47,300
yes,
1055
00:52:47,310 --> 00:52:48,820
I'm looking around the room going,
1056
00:52:48,830 --> 00:52:49,990
okay,
1057
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,500
what did what did I miss you when you're the only personal.
1058
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:56,860
Yes.
1059
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:57,810
And you're like,
1060
00:52:57,820 --> 00:52:58,590
was that a joke?
1061
00:52:58,590 --> 00:53:02,110
Was I meant to laugh and you feel like saying to people,
1062
00:53:02,110 --> 00:53:02,190
oh,
1063
00:53:02,190 --> 00:53:02,600
it's okay.
1064
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:03,060
It's because,
1065
00:53:03,060 --> 00:53:03,510
sorry,
1066
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,060
It's just because this thing happened to me.
1067
00:53:05,060 --> 00:53:05,630
And I find that,
1068
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:06,370
yeah,
1069
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:11,940
there were a couple of moments in your show actually where you have made a couple of autistic jokes and I mean,
1070
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:13,040
I loved because number one,
1071
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:13,580
I know you,
1072
00:53:13,580 --> 00:53:15,080
but I also know a bit more about how,
1073
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:15,280
you know,
1074
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,380
the autistic community jokes about certain things.
1075
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:20,650
And then you hear that staggered laugh response where people go,
1076
00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:21,570
give me permission.
1077
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:29,890
I can sink into it now because one of the lines of that sounded quite autistic.
1078
00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:37,670
And that line was consistently even in the kind of test shows that I did of it would get a oh,
1079
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:38,130
okay,
1080
00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:39,790
we can laugh now.
1081
00:53:39,850 --> 00:53:40,690
Yes.
1082
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:43,190
It's a joke.
1083
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:43,700
Yeah.
1084
00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:51,200
It's funny because I actually got quite self conscious on the night because I realized I was laughing quite big to a number of these jokes and again,
1085
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,860
no one else was really trying to catch the wave of your laughter great or sitting next to you just so you know,
1086
00:53:56,860 --> 00:53:57,360
I was like,
1087
00:53:57,370 --> 00:53:57,690
okay,
1088
00:53:57,690 --> 00:53:58,120
yes,
1089
00:53:58,130 --> 00:53:58,430
yeah,
1090
00:53:58,430 --> 00:53:59,840
I have permission to laugh at that.
1091
00:53:59,850 --> 00:54:00,490
Yeah.
1092
00:54:00,500 --> 00:54:02,180
But there are also some moments where you go,
1093
00:54:02,180 --> 00:54:02,450
okay,
1094
00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:02,580
well,
1095
00:54:02,580 --> 00:54:08,750
maybe there are some comments that are jokes for people who relate to your experience or people who have similar.
1096
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,200
Again,
1097
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,180
not every joke is for every person in the room.
1098
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:11,700
And I mean,
1099
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:16,480
I think about I saw a return to the dirt on Saturday night and was bawling in the second half,
1100
00:54:16,490 --> 00:54:17,290
I saw it with Hannah,
1101
00:54:17,290 --> 00:54:21,800
our producer who very kindly gave me her spare ticket so I could see it.
1102
00:54:21,810 --> 00:54:24,880
But I remember speaking to her beforehand and she's like,
1103
00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:25,850
I won't say anything,
1104
00:54:25,850 --> 00:54:26,670
I just want you to see it,
1105
00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:27,990
I want to see you see it.
1106
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:28,500
And I'm like,
1107
00:54:28,510 --> 00:54:29,170
okay,
1108
00:54:29,180 --> 00:54:30,050
all right,
1109
00:54:30,060 --> 00:54:31,060
a little bit on edge,
1110
00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:37,030
But I got it because as soon as I went and it's like she knew that that show was something that would really I mean,
1111
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:37,750
it's not written for me,
1112
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:38,860
it's written for Steve,
1113
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:43,510
but overall it would be something that I would find really resonated in style,
1114
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:44,160
in form,
1115
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,870
in verbatim ness if that's the word,
1116
00:54:47,870 --> 00:54:50,900
I'm making it a word just dramaturgical e and the direction,
1117
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:52,810
which I thought was fabulous by the way,
1118
00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:54,920
did all of it just worked together.
1119
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,660
It was a show that I would love.
1120
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,140
And I was saying to Oliver and said in the elevator,
1121
00:55:02,140 --> 00:55:02,600
I actually,
1122
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:03,250
you know,
1123
00:55:03,340 --> 00:55:03,670
yes,
1124
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:09,160
very moved by and I had to sit in my car afterwards just for a moment and quickly message my boyfriend and go,
1125
00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:22,220
I just need to know I really moved and this is how I feel and you're really important to me because it made me reflect on me and my life and the people I love and death and grief and and this hilarious story I have of being,
1126
00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:24,210
I think it was 11 or 12 years old,
1127
00:55:24,220 --> 00:55:30,760
not knowing how cremation works being at my great grandmother's funeral sobbing because I thought they were going to like the confident on fire right in front of me.
1128
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,250
So I got taken out of the room because I thought that that's how they did cremation.
1129
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,770
But it's weird how these stories resonate.
1130
00:55:37,780 --> 00:55:40,670
But I also know that there might be someone else in that audience who they might go,
1131
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:42,130
that's a great show,
1132
00:55:42,140 --> 00:55:45,420
but theatre at its finest,
1133
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:47,710
because it's not complex.
1134
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:48,560
It's not,
1135
00:55:49,640 --> 00:56:00,360
I think what theatre has the power to do when it is working on all cylinders is you could theoretically remove all the tech elements,
1136
00:56:00,370 --> 00:56:02,030
all of the yeah,
1137
00:56:02,530 --> 00:56:04,540
whatever and just in a room,
1138
00:56:05,130 --> 00:56:10,960
read a script and if the script or if theatre is pure enough,
1139
00:56:12,730 --> 00:56:18,460
it works magic and that's not to say with all the bells and whistles do,
1140
00:56:18,830 --> 00:56:19,980
but we don't need them,
1141
00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:21,950
but we connect to what's human about it.
1142
00:56:22,330 --> 00:56:23,640
Like that's what it comes down to.
1143
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,560
I think that's one of the reasons why Oliver's work worked so well is because it was human,
1144
00:56:27,570 --> 00:56:32,450
you can see the human and you don't even need to be telling your own story to have a really human work.
1145
00:56:32,460 --> 00:56:33,990
But that's what we connect to most.
1146
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:35,150
I mean triple X.
1147
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,580
I mean I knew that that work was not for me,
1148
00:56:37,580 --> 00:56:40,510
but it was so human and I still was moved and oh my God,
1149
00:56:40,510 --> 00:56:41,740
it was incredible.
1150
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:43,070
But coming out of it going,
1151
00:56:43,070 --> 00:56:46,340
that was some of the most phenomenal theatre I've seen in a very long time.
1152
00:56:46,830 --> 00:56:50,390
What did just name three works that were personal stories,
1153
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:51,190
personal stories.
1154
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:51,650
I did,
1155
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:52,480
I did,
1156
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:53,400
I did do that,
1157
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:54,060
didn't I?
1158
00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:54,910
It's okay,
1159
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:55,480
it's okay.
1160
00:56:55,490 --> 00:56:58,000
It's also a thing that's happening a lot in theatre.
1161
00:56:58,010 --> 00:56:58,640
Yeah.
1162
00:56:58,650 --> 00:57:07,380
And that question about the valuing of authenticity is actually making people braver about identifying with the story that they're writing.
1163
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:17,260
I think it used to be the tradition that you disappeared yourself into the work that you had to create layers on top of it and something rang true,
1164
00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:19,060
but you denied it was autobiographical,
1165
00:57:19,060 --> 00:57:19,960
that was naff,
1166
00:57:19,970 --> 00:57:20,580
yes,
1167
00:57:20,590 --> 00:57:22,010
all that emotion.
1168
00:57:22,020 --> 00:57:26,570
But times are changing And I think that that question,
1169
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:30,200
I'm just conscious that sin is waving the hand that says,
1170
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,520
we should probably wrap up sometime soon.
1171
00:57:32,540 --> 00:57:47,850
I'm trying to find a very big reach that talks about authenticity and things that matter and stories that reach us and spaces that allow it to happen in the Bille Brown and your extraordinary show and your extraordinary festival and how I'm already looking forward to the next one.
1172
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:49,680
I can't wrap it all up together.
1173
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,570
This has been too wide ranging and beautiful a conversation about art and artists.
1174
00:57:54,830 --> 00:57:56,770
Is there anything you wanted to throw into the pool?
1175
00:57:56,780 --> 00:57:58,840
I was quickly and I'll end on this.
1176
00:57:58,850 --> 00:58:03,990
I was reading David Williamson's ‘Home Truths’ his new memoir,
1177
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:16,660
and he talks about how it was only this year when he was researching for his new book how autobiographical his works uh when he was writing them,
1178
00:58:16,660 --> 00:58:17,310
he's like,
1179
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:18,010
I'm,
1180
00:58:18,020 --> 00:58:19,040
you know,
1181
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,630
doing whatever he was that he was dealing with at the time,
1182
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,610
unaware that what he was actually dealing was sorting through his own traumas.
1183
00:58:28,610 --> 00:58:39,970
And I think even if you're telling a fictional story or on some level there are doing it because you need to you're doing it because you need to and it will bleed in like,
1184
00:58:39,980 --> 00:58:44,540
the script that I submitted for the media has elements of my life in it.
1185
00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:50,690
It is also a fictional story that is completely made up and did not happen,
1186
00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:52,330
but moments have happened,
1187
00:58:52,340 --> 00:58:54,390
but moments have happened.
1188
00:58:54,400 --> 00:59:07,320
There's something really interesting that happens in the disability arts community to is we kind of instinctively one of our first big works will be a very personal autobiographical work and that's largely because of the lack of representation on stage.
1189
00:59:07,330 --> 00:59:10,840
Because if we don't see characters and stories that we can,
1190
00:59:11,220 --> 00:59:11,710
you know,
1191
00:59:11,710 --> 00:59:13,390
just pick up a text and go,
1192
00:59:13,390 --> 00:59:14,050
you know what I want to,
1193
00:59:14,060 --> 00:59:16,830
I want to put on secret Bridesmaid's business and sure,
1194
00:59:16,830 --> 00:59:18,110
like The Bride can be disabled,
1195
00:59:18,110 --> 00:59:18,340
you know,
1196
00:59:18,340 --> 00:59:19,090
no big deal.
1197
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:20,640
If I don't feel like I can do that,
1198
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,820
I'm going to create a show as I have done about my own life,
1199
00:59:23,830 --> 00:59:27,860
but then the next work is a little bit different and very similar.
1200
00:59:27,860 --> 00:59:33,450
The work that I submitted with a co playwright um is informed by our experiences,
1201
00:59:33,450 --> 00:59:34,950
but it's definitely not.
1202
00:59:35,020 --> 00:59:37,600
Um our story by any means.
1203
00:59:37,610 --> 00:59:42,530
And I think that perhaps there's a shift happening in the industry because we're looking for yes,
1204
00:59:42,530 --> 00:59:43,240
what's human,
1205
00:59:43,250 --> 00:59:44,980
what's true and authentic,
1206
00:59:44,990 --> 00:59:48,760
But we're also looking to see ourselves on stage somehow.
1207
00:59:48,770 --> 00:59:50,390
And how do we do that?
1208
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,450
We'll do we have to make our own work or can we invite people in to make it with us?
1209
00:59:55,020 --> 00:59:58,180
Big questions that's going to require another podcast.
1210
00:59:58,650 --> 00:59:59,060
Yeah,
1211
00:59:59,070 --> 01:00:03,520
so we're going to leave it there for today Maddie Oliver,
1212
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:10,050
thank you so much for being in conversation and thank you to all of the Queensland theatre quality time listeners who tuned in.
1213
01:00:10,060 --> 01:00:24,200
I don't know when this will be available online for people to have a listen to but I hope that it's giving you some food for thought and that you're already putting 2023 somewhere in the September area around there in September.
1214
01:00:24,210 --> 01:00:30,490
Just put it in your long term google calendar that there'll be stuff to look out for with the undercover arts festival.
1215
01:00:30,490 --> 01:00:31,330
Thank you both.
1216
01:00:31,340 --> 01:00:32,140
Thank you.
1217
01:00:33,410 --> 01:00:38,210
Thanks so much for listening to quality time.
1218
01:00:38,220 --> 01:00:43,480
Please rate and review it and follow us on Facebook Instagram LinkedIn and twitter at Q.
1219
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:43,620
L.
1220
01:00:43,620 --> 01:00:43,800
D.
1221
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:44,330
Theatre.
1222
01:00:44,810 --> 01:00:52,810
You can visit our website Queensland theatre dot com dot au to sign up to our e news and learn more about the stories we'll be sharing next.
1223
01:00:52,820 --> 01:00:59,100
We can't wait to see you at the theatre again soon by the way.
1224
01:00:59,110 --> 01:00:59,850
There we go.
1225
01:00:59,860 --> 01:01:00,520
Sorry,
1226
01:01:00,530 --> 01:01:04,390
I as if as if that one was gonna run shorter,
1227
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:09,810
please sorry there that with the kids I believe.
1228
01:01:13,510 --> 01:01:13,740
Yeah.
1229
01:01:17,410 --> 01:01:18,130
Mm hmm,
1230
01:01:20,010 --> 01:01:20,520
mm hmm.
1231
01:01:22,110 --> 01:01:22,820
Uh huh.
1232
01:01:23,210 --> 01:01:23,440
Yeah,
