WEBVTT
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I represented dozens of names, but we also work with hundreds more through their own agents.
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And one such towering talent is the comedian, best-selling author and mental health campaigner, Ruby Wax Drumroll.
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How are you, Ruby?
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I don't like to say fine, but I'm fine.
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My stock answer is well enough, but unfortunately that makes people ask more questions.
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Like, you know, hail fellow, well met.
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You know, fine.
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Yes.
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We've saluted each other.
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Now we can get on with reality.
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Do you know?
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In thinking about today, I remembered a conversation which you probably won't remember.
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A very long time ago, I can put an actual date on it.
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It was in 1997.
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I took a phone call from somebody organizing John Major's campaign tour in a hapless attempt to get re-elected as Prime Minister.
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Right.
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And they wanted somebody effectively as a warm-up.
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And they were under pressure to go with Jim Davidson, if you remember Jim David.
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I remembered that, yeah.
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And the producer said we think we cannot have Jim Davidson.
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It will just be a nightmare.
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So can you come up with somebody else?
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So I drew up a long list.
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I mean, it was quite a long list, it was 30 or so names.
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And one by one I phoned everyone.
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And everyone's answer was you gotta be kidding.
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No, no way.
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Except for you.
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Because I took the money and ran.
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That was your first question.
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I remember it now as though it was yesterday.
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Yeah, you said, What's the money?
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I don't know whether I gave you an answer.
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I don't know if I had an answer.
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Did I do it?
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No, you didn't.
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Oh, right.
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There you go.
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Do you know who did?
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Who?
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Jim Davidson.
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You get what you asked for.
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Well, quite.
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Let's not go.
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Anyway, I just I just wanted to share that because I can't get rid of that memory.
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Just let me be clear.
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I don't think I would have done Sean Majors.
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It wasn't the money.
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I just want to be clear.
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I think perhaps your answer might have been flippant.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it was a hiding to nothing, for goodness sake.
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But the conversation took place, I promise you.
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So I usually start with some kind of a recap.
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Not that my listeners will need much of a reminder, but your extraordinary career.
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I mean, truly extraordinary.
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You landed over here.
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I'm going to miss lots of bits out, by the way.
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We can skip birth.
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I can't remember in your memoir whether you went into that.
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But I remember, I don't even know.
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Do I call it a wiener factory or a is that the right pronunciation?
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You could say it wiener, yes.
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We're very proud of it.
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Sausage is another translation.
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Exactly.
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No, I really wanted to push myself.
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Anyway, we're not going to go into that.
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You landed on these shores.
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You found yourself eventually in the Royal Shakespeare Company.
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I clawed my way into the Royal Shakespeare Company.
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Which would be another story, but we haven't got time for it today.
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I saw you in Measure for Measure, the dates.
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Oh, playing Horestroke None.
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It was an extraordinary production which I didn't fully understand.
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And that's before I knew that it was regarded as a problem play.
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I remember enjoying it as an A-level student, and I remember your performance, but I don't remember any detail.
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Anyway, so you did that.
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Then was it your last outing as a nun?
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Yeah, it was my last outing as a nun that I never was asked again.
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And I thought I was Julia Stevens and I were fabulous.
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We had Pac Marks, and eventually we were laden with Pac Marks.
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We upstaged everybody else in the show.
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We had to improvise being hookers.
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And the assistant director made us go with through the town of Stratford being 17th century hookers.
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I got many clients.
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Many clients.
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I must have turned up late, unfortunately.
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You did.
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You ended up after a little while in a sitcom called Girls on Top.
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Then, and you did so many other things and appearances and as an actor.
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But you landed a chat show, and it became the first of a number of chat shows.
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Don't miss wax, the full wax, wax on wheels, and you start with French and Saunders, Comic Strip Presents, and you were also, I hadn't remembered this, I had to look it up.
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You were script editor on Av Fab.
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So it's the whole kind of front and behind camera stuff.
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And you have performed your One Woman show all over the place.
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Not just this country, but Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.
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You've been around, basically.
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And then I really you can you can tell I'm skipping now.
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I don't mind.
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I love listening about me.
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You did so do I actually.
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Then you decided, after seeing uh a comic relief campaign, to share your own experience of depression.
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And you went on to give a massive TED talk.
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A lot of my listeners will be fans of TED Talks, and you spoke about mental illness.
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And you went on to do a master's in mindfulness-based cognitive therapy and became a visiting professor in mental health mental health, mental health nursing.
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So that's a bit of a jump.
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Did you just decide to reinvent yourself or did it happen almost without thinking about it?
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Did you press pause on everything and say, I want to talk about me?
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What happened?
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Well, this the story is that Comic Relief asked me to pose for a poster, and I thought it was going to be a small poster.
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It was raising money for mental health.
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And instead, they put huge posters in the tube station, giant ones that said, with my face saying one in four people have mental illness, one in five people have dandruff.
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I have both.
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And I was mortified.
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They didn't ask for my permission.
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So I had to write a show because I pretended that was my publicity poster for a show.
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I didn't have one.
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So I wrote a show about mental health, but I didn't want it to be in the public because good luck holding on to a job.
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So I presented it in mental institutions for two years for free, including the priory.
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I did life from the priory where half were my friends and half were inmates.
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So nobody knew what was going on.
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Some people just screamed all the way through it.
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The bipolars laughed and cried.
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I mean, it was just mayhem.
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But I enjoyed it so much I did go to clinics for two years because the audiences were fantastic.
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I got material.
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And so that's how it happened.
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Then I became associated with mental health.
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And then you studied it seriously.
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And then I was thrown out lovingly from the BBC.
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Alan Yentob took over my job.
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You know, they said I didn't get enough ratings.
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Well, we had 14 million.
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But I mean, I'm not bitter because I wouldn't have gotten an OBE if I didn't get kicked out.
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So then I thought I have to reinvent again.
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So I became a psychotherapist.
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I was terrible as a psychotherapist.
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Because I kept saying, oh, just cut to the punchline, you know, just get to the end.
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I couldn't stand the, you know, that we didn't know what his mind was about, and that was my interest.
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I can crack people really.
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That's my only gift, I think, is that I can crack them and figure them out.
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That's why I did all the celebrity interviews because I wasn't interested in their career.
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I was interested in who they really were and what were they hiding.
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I got into Oxford eventually to study mindfulness.
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Okay, well, let's just take a break very quickly because I think for one of my own company away days, or whatever we used to call them, we kind of inverted commas did mindfulness.
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But I never really got what it was.
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Can you come up with the definition?
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I studied the neuroscience of it, so I like to when I explain.
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It's not in a pat little sentence, you sit there and breathe.
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I explain what is happening in your brain when you're doing specific exercises.
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And that's building a bulk in certain areas of the brain that are exactly what you're after, which is how to lower your own cortisol when you're in a situation where the shit hits the fan.
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But you know, people say I relax by jogging or I do golf.
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But if you're in the midst of chaos or your kids are screaming, or your boss is about to fire you, you can't say I'm getting out of the golf clubs.
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So mindfulness is something, it's a it's something to use in the situation.
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You don't get locked in anger.
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You can lower your cortisol and you can focus your attention.
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So the exercise, which I demonstrate, is exactly like explaining somebody doing a sit-up.
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You know, you lie down, you get up, you lie down, you get up.
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Eventually you'll get a six-pack.
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So with the mindfulness exercise, you're building up muscle in the brain so that you can do exactly what I just said you could do.
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And I can bring down my anger, which was my emotion of choice.
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I always love to express anger because it gives you such an adrenaline hit is delicious.
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I mean, nobody ever gets addicted to things that are good for you.
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Nobody gets addicted to kale.
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I love that rage.
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And now I know what it does to your health, so I pull it down.
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I am glossing over the fact that you've become an absolute authority on matters of mental health.
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You've written, I've got a list here, is it six books about mental health?
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How do you want me to say new world?
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Mindfulness guide for the frazzled, how to be human, and now for the good news, and a mindfulness guide for survival.
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That's probably not in chronological order.
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The mindfulness guide, which I had a very quick look at, you talk about the six big realities.
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Okay, just to list them so that the listeners get it quickly.
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Difficult emotions, uncertainty, loneliness, change, dissatisfaction, and the big one death.
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I mean, I guess that encompasses just about everything.
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Your point is we all go through all of those things.
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So we need to equip ourselves and know what's happening and have a clue, just some kind of idea how to deal with each one.
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Is that in a nutshell?
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Yeah.
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Well, I wrote it during COVID.
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And these are the things that, you know, existentially we've never figured out.
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So much we haven't figured out.
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If you can deal with those, then you're, you know, you're liberated from your own mind.
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Uncertainty is the only thing that's certain and how to deal with change.
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People don't know that every second, every millisecond, everything is changing.
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So the part of the mindfulness is to understand how to you notice what state you're in, but then you release it.
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Where you pay attention is who you are in that moment.
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If you decide, I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough, you're not good enough.
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But if you let that thought go, because it's just a recording, eventually you learn to live with these little negative influencers that you had from childhood.
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But I don't want to be captured by it.
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It's like having a scar from your youth.
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Eventually it gets fainter and fainter, but you're in charge rather than enhancing the pain.
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Just on that subject of change, it's kind of all around us now.
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And it was always I mean, I get that.
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It's in a high speed.
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And it's everywhere, I guess, is the point I'm trying to make.
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It's out there in the world in terms of shifting sands, relationships between countries, and is my job still going to exist in however many years' time?
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And am I going to be able to get a mortgage or afford one?
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All those questions, partly depending on age, I guess, and uh your own kind of circumstances.
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There's a whole lot of change going on out there, as well as whatever you're dealing with internally, as it were.
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Because I know you do that, you do that for my old company still, and they love you.
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When you're talking to conferences and people about leadership and change and things like that.
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I mean, this is the interesting thing to me.
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These are not rooms full of people who've paid to come and see you as they are when you're on tour.
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These are people who go where they're told to go, sit in the seat, and then Ruby Wax, lo and behold, is out in front of them talking about mental health and leadership and change.
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What's your shtick to those people?
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My shtick is that you paid for me, you know, for an hour or whatever, and it's not going to change you at all.
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You've just check marked that you've discussed something about mental illness or health, whatever you want to call it.
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But I do give them tools to recognize that we know nothing about how the mothership works, first of all, but there is a way of getting a little bit of knowledge about it.
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So I do talk a little bit, and they like this about neuroscience.
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But I dumb it down and I make it funny because once you get their mouths open, you can shove anything down there.
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Um, so it, you know, I at least I presented in a way that's not a lecture and they're intimidated.
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Oh, here's something else I don't know about.
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So I do give them tools because I think people discuss this is what's wrong, this is the world of changers, whatever.
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But I want to have what do I walk away with?
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And so I do give them some tools to walk away with.
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How to deal with you know the chaos around us.
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Hold on while the winds are blowing.
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So you don't blow away.
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We need to have an anchor.
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Do you ever hear back from them afterwards?
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Do you ever hear that they've actually done some of the things that you were talking about?
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I do retreats.
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So a lot of them show up at my retreats now.
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And I do them at home and I do them in in retreat centers.
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I do hear that they picked up on it.
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I meet people at my shows who say, after you spoke at our company or whatever, I still do what you were talking about.
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And it's changed me.
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You want to change people.
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You don't want to just talk at them.
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If their minds aren't listening, they're not there.
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So I get them into the room mentally.
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And I think that's what I can do.
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That must be one of the most gratifying things out there, isn't it?
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Isn't it a a bit like getting a big laugh in front of a live audience?
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So that's my challenge with all my shows is make them laugh.
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Because otherwise you don't deserve to give information.
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You have to deserve giving us a serious message.
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So give them some foreplay.
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Something else I'm going to write down.
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If I turn up at one of your retreats, which you do it at home, I gather.
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I do it at home too.
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Yeah.
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We 20 people come.
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They come downstairs, it's catered, it's a day where I teach them what to do.
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And they really have great results.
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I'm not being am I proselytizing my own work.
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I kind of imagine everybody sitting there in sort of bathrobes with nice smells going on in the background.
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Well, I don't do teaching.
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I don't sit on a gluten-free cushion.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:48.879
The way I teach it is very practical, so that you can smoke, you can swim, you can do sword fighting, you can put your kids to bed, but you can do it in a different way.
00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.399
But you have to do an exercise, maybe a minute a day.
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:57.919
Everybody has this entitlement that if they just push the right button or take the right drug, everything will be okay.
00:14:58.159 --> 00:14:59.600
You have to do something.
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.799
You have to conquer the brain, otherwise, the brain will conquer you.
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.440
Your recent book, I'm not as well as I thought I was.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.440
I mean, the title is self-explanatory, but what made you write that?
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.279
Well, it was tongue-in-cheek.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.559
It was during COVID.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.919
And I thought when this is over, I'm going to do something with more depth.
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.120
I'm going to find meaning.
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.440
So I challenged myself to go on a 30-day silent retreat.
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:24.960
I just picked the extremes.
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.679
I went to work at refugee camps and tried to get people out of Afghanistan.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.600
I swam with whales off backs that were migrating back up to Iceland.
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:34.720
I mean, there were big ones.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:42.960
I lived in a Christian monastery and to see the results, to see if they would deepen me or, you know, lead me anywhere inspiring.
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:44.159
They did.
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.480
They really put their money where their mouth is.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.039
The descriptions of them in my book are funny.
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:58.639
You know, a 30-day silent retreat is going to be with that gong going off all the time, telling you now to walk, to eat, to whatever, that made my cervix vibrate.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:16.000
And when they take away your phone, the desperation you are to kind of have something to do, when they take away everything, what you're left with is I wanted to go shopping so badly, I started buying stones in my own mind and making deals with myself, how much they would be, and then returning them the next day.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:17.360
They weren't the right stone.
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.279
You know, you want to do what you do to distract yourself from your thoughts.
00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:27.200
But eventually, after a week, the thoughts get so exhausting that they start to quiet down.
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:33.039
And then, I'm sure this is why kids do psilocybin, suddenly colors look much more poignant.
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.240
Food, I had a love affair with the digestive.
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.279
Food starts to be delicious because you don't have to sit next to somebody and ask them what they do for a living.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.399
I ran into the kitchen and I broke my silence.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.000
I said, How did you make this egg?
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.360
My tears were coming out.
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.960
They said, With an egg, everything becomes more poignant.
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:56.639
Once those thoughts shut up, which is impossible, you know, that really takes discipline.
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.080
I mean, they're quieter.
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:00.559
They're not completely gone because we're creatures that think.
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:02.399
It became really interesting.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:10.640
And then I ended up, ironically, and what makes the book kind of funny is I ended up in a mental board at the very end of all this.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.680
But there's a reason.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.279
I wanted to do psilocybin, so I came off my medication and I ended up in a clinic.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.519
I know it's a cliche, everybody wants to try this, but that was part of my journey.
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.000
The lesson is don't come off your medication.
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:24.559
Wow.
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.480
So I did all these extraordinary things which were life-changing.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:28.880
Yeah.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:30.960
Every one of them was life-changing.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:37.440
And I could see, you know, how with neuroplasticity the inner landscape was changing.
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.200
But then I have depression.
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:40.720
I need those drugs.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:42.160
And I was depleted.
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.240
So I went back to square one.
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:45.680
It was a waste.
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:47.599
But that's what happened.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.039
My goodness.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:58.960
And then, sublime to ridiculous, some would say, you accepted an invitation to go on to the last series of I'm a Celeb, get me out of here.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:01.599
What made you accept that invitation?
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:02.960
I'm I don't know.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.000
Am I surprised?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.759
Maybe not, but I'm intrigued.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.440
To me, reality shows are the lowest form of life on the on earth.
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:14.559
So I I've been turning it down, but suddenly they said, here's who would be with you.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.319
You'd find everybody interesting.
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:17.359
I believe them.
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.119
They said, This isn't about conflict.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.200
You'll like every single one of them, and I thrive in a communal atmosphere.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.799
That's where I'm at my best.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.200
Even people that everybody else would find loathsome, I can find interesting.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.599
So I thought this is an opportunity to lose weight because that you really don't eat.
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:34.720
I've lost a stone.
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.720
It was just a human experiment.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.559
My children were appalled because they said that's an appalling show.
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.599
For some reason, I like having new adventures.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.039
Otherwise, you don't shift.
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.039
You just become same old, same old.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.559
And it turned out to be one of the most rewarding things I've ever done in my life.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:52.799
I mean, I made friends with 23-year-olds.
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:53.839
Where do you meet them?
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.160
I did say what makes you like me so much.
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.160
And they said, because you remind me of my man.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:04.079
I thought it was because I was so cool or attractive, but I loved every single one of those people.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.599
And you didn't know where the cameras were, so you weren't performing.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:09.200
You were totally yourself.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:11.599
You know, throw me into a situation like that.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.799
I do that in my real life anyway, the fact that it was filmed.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.759
I bought a place in Findhorn, which is a communal eco village.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.920
I mean, to me, that's experimental.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.400
I love just changing the locale, like you change your screensaver.
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.079
I literally change it.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:29.920
You won't remember this either.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:35.920
You and Ed once walked into a cottage I owned.
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:37.119
Oh my god.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.039
I mean, I think I know what you're gonna say.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.440
Go on.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:40.720
Quite literally.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.519
You weren't the only person to do so, I have to say.
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:52.799
The front door was open for whatever reason, and this American couple came in, and I was there with somebody else, and I was just open-mouthed, thinking, What are you doing in my house?
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:55.119
I didn't say anything, I just watched them.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.359
And they wandered around.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.400
And then after a while they said, We're just gonna go upstairs.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.559
And I I went, uh okay.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.039
And then a few minutes later they left.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:10.480
The difference with you and Ed being that we had a chat outside, and you said, Do you mind if we have a look around?
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:11.839
Where was your house?
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.240
In a Disney fied Cotswold village called Lois Slaughter.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:19.279
Oh my god, that's magnificent.
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:24.799
And I think you were partly there because the house round the corner was for sale.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.359
And it was funny and it was lovely.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:29.200
But it's weird.
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:34.079
It's weird to have people coming at your house as though you're an extra.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.720
Your house wasn't for sale, I just walked in.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:37.920
I mean, that's something I do.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.240
You asked, and that was cool.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:55.279
One day I was outside the little garden at the front, I remember picking up my mug of coffee on the windowsill and lighting a flag as I do, and then got a sense that something strange was happening.
00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:05.759
And I turned around towards the little kind of village green, and there were uh half a dozen Japanese people looking at me and pointing.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.680
I felt I was in some kind of theme park.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:14.640
I felt, you know, I ought to have straw coming out of my mouth or something, I ought to play my part.
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:15.839
God, it was weird.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:26.480
But you didn't buy the house on the corner, and you had, I think, the insight to realize that had you done so, you would have had people staring at you the whole time.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.279
Oh, really?
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.119
Was that the reason I didn't like your house?
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:30.079
I've no idea.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:31.519
No, my house wasn't for sale.
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:33.519
Let's let's let's let's That's the funniest.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.559
That's the funniest.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.680
But I used to walk into people's homes and say, Would you sell me this?
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.200
That wasn't unusual.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.559
Uh I would see a house and say, I'd like to buy this.
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:43.759
So you didn't want to.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.319
You know what?
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.319
I was really just looking at the house.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.599
You know, I wanted to get in homes and just see how everybody lived.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.920
Well, I didn't really live there, so I guess it that probably showed as well.
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.839
It looked probably like a rental cottage.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.079
Anyway, I want to come bang up to date.
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.839
Well, sort of come up to date.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:09.920
I want to talk about the tour that you're doing right now, from now to July, from South End to Newcastle, taking two places at random.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.200
And you're playing 200 yards from my house in Barry St.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:13.759
Edmonds.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:18.799
So I will be there on the 5th of May, as will a number of my listeners.
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.440
Otherwise, I'll go to your home and drag you out.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.440
Well, you probably will know anyway, wouldn't you?
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.200
You walk around and you'll go, hmm.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:27.039
That was for me.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.000
The tour is called Absolutely Famous.
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:40.240
And at its heart, as I understand it, correct me where I go wrong, is you and Clive, the wonderful Clive, who you've worked with for a long, long, 25 years, yeah.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:48.160
I talked to Clive a few years ago about um touring somebody that I uh represented at the time.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.079
And I had this I actually think it's quite a good idea.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:57.359
And I think Clive might have done it, but you know, circumstances or whatever.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.480
So I have a very, very greatest of respect for Clive.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:07.599
So Clive is your producer, and you two go back certainly to the wax meat space.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.079
Yeah.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.359
And that's the core, as I understand it, the core of the show.
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:20.400
So you're telling stories and you're showing clips, among other things, of some of the people you did those legendary interviews with.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:27.279
Yeah, we show but we're talking about the nature of fame, the nature of what it takes to be a murderer.
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.799
You know, I went from everyone from you know Madonna to O.J.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.240
Simpson to Amelda Marcos to Donald Trump.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.240
Guess which category I put him in.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:41.200
But we do kind of discuss what really happened rather than what you're seeing.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.599
But what you're seeing is pretty extraordinary.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:46.640
As I imagine lots of your audience will do.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:58.319
That must be what it felt like.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:04.319
When he refers to you as the world's most obnoxious reporter.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:06.319
Yeah.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.759
I mean, my mouth was open in disbelief.
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:11.519
I don't remember seeing it at the time.
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:23.920
You go with him into his casino and the Taj Mahal and watch him signing books for people who lost money there.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:39.440
Yeah, the Millionaires Club, where they have to spend a million in his casino, and these are poor trailer park people, so God knows how they got a million, but probably borrowed it, and then that he makes them buy his books, and they're adoring him and having him sign it.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.480
It's a loathsome scene, but it's so revealing.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.039
Steal from the poor and take to the rich.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:53.279
Which, you know, is a game we might be seeing, well, not a game, a story we might be seeing playing out all over again.
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:55.119
But watching you and Melania.
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:56.400
Oh, yeah.
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.759
That was different.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:24:59.440
That looked like you were having fun.
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.680
I mean, you were smiling, she was smiling.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:08.480
And she was, insofar as uh an international model ever is, she was in Petacoma's normal.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:09.839
What did you discover?
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.799
Anything about her?
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.279
Or She reminded me of Pamela Anderson.
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:14.799
You know, she had no front.
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.480
You know, she was she had a big front.
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.440
She didn't have an image that she was holding on to.
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:23.359
And she could play ball, and that always shows me how smart they are.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:27.200
They could do the irony with me, and so it's like playing a tennis game.
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.440
I'd throw something to her, she'd throw it back.
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:31.519
And you watch a rapport happening.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:36.400
Whereas with somebody who doesn't get the joke, like Madonna, it falls flat on its face.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.200
But bad television is still good television.
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:40.160
I liked her.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:41.359
She was in love with him.
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.319
She found him incredibly sexy, Donald Trump.
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:46.799
And she told me how what she likes to do in bed.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:48.319
I mean, it's fine.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:49.759
And I tell her the same thing.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:51.920
I mean, I'm always honest with my guess.
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.920
I told her I wouldn't sleep with Donald Trump and I found him lothsome.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.599
My guess is that he wouldn't have slept with you either.
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:00.559
And he didn't.
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.000
He found me disgusting.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.000
Which is a badge of pride, isn't it?
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.279
Isn't that something you're quite proud about?
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.519
No, it's it was a terrible interview.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:12.400
I mean, he made me so nervous that if somebody treats you like an idiot, you become an idiot.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.880
So I was asking moronic questions.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:15.759
I didn't hold my own.
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:17.680
It happened with Bill Cosby, too.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.000
There's something so evil in front of you.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.200
I'm not talking politically, I'm just talking as a human being.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:32.240
There was such hatred and such of kind of visceral disgust that I wasn't even human, and he threw me off his plane at 33,000 feet.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.119
When I met Bill Cosby, he tried to choke me to death.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:38.880
So you kind of know, give me a few years and I'll reveal these people.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:40.240
Wow.
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:47.119
You know, the interview that I couldn't find online was the one with Sarah Ferguson.
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.039
And I think the BBC made us take it off, but you see it in the show.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.039
And that's incredibly revealing.
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.960
That's what characterized your.
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:06.880
I think somewhere I saw them described as comedy documentaries, your long-form interviews where you're having fun, you're following people around, you're programming them, you're asking questions that nobody else will ask.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.799
And because you do it in that way, they answer you.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:12.000
It's extraordinary.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:13.359
It's mind-blowing.
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:31.279
And even that little clip that is still out there of you with Sarah Ferguson noticing the post-it notes she has on a chest of drawers, and which drawer has got the white t-shirts, and which drawer has got the pink t-shirts.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:38.000
And it's because apparently she was in such a rush in the mornings that she didn't want to waste time trying to remember.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:39.680
Opening the drawers.
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:40.319
Yeah.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.720
Also telling me that she was injected with something, and that made her crazy.
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:52.480
She was on a diet, so she had some injections done when she was 16, and she said that was responsible for her peculiar behavior.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:55.599
And so I said, an injection made you crazy?
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.400
I mean, clearly she was delusional.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.400
And of all my guests, everybody had a talent except her.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.240
She just wanted fame so badly and would do anything for it.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:07.759
And we see the results now.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:08.720
Anything for it.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.119
She wanted attention and she wanted power.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:12.400
And she got neither.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.680
I was with people for a week, and I'd always have dinner with them.
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.759
So you would see who they really were.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.160
I didn't get that interview after a half an hour.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:21.920
It was sometimes 17 hours.
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.039
Sometimes it was a week.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:23.519
O.J.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:25.839
Simpson was three days.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.160
So it looks like I'm getting right into them, but I am, you know, I'm warming them up.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:35.440
She says how how she regrets what she's done in her life back then.
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.839
And you can see she's kind of addicted to gazumping herself.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:45.119
So you do learn this is a person who will do anything for some attention.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.000
Anything.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.000
And plays the humble card.
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.720
I don't know if this is a ridiculous question or not, but did you feel sorry for her?
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:54.640
And do you feel sorry for her now?
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.079
I did feel sorry for her.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.079
I've Clive and I both felt kind of bad that she didn't want to cut anything out.
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:02.720
But we kept saying, take out what you don't want.
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.400
Now I don't feel sorry for her.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:04.880
No.
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:11.519
I think it's disgusting that she gets a pedophile in jail and asks them for a loan and knows exactly what's going on.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.279
That's a different ballpark.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.160
I can talk to you about those interviews forever.
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:19.440
I love the Victoria Beckham one, by the way, of the Spice Girls.
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:20.160
Oh, right.
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.559
Thank you.
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:27.519
The chat with this really kind of ordinary, down to earth.
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:28.960
I think she still was.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.880
She comes across as down to earth then.
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:31.839
Yeah, she was.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:32.880
Down to earth.
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.319
You kind of watch it.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:35.680
And do you know what I thought?
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:42.079
And what I think your audiences, a lot of them, will be thinking when they watch these clips and listen to you and Clive.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:46.960
They'll be thinking, oh, Ruby, go back, do it again, do it now.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:54.319
Give us a wax meets with Victoria Beckham these days, and we can see where she came from and what she's become.
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.000
Any chance at all of that happening?
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:56.799
No chance.
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.079
I would do it in a second.
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:00.880
You'd never be allowed to get the access that I had.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:04.720
Because, you know, the internet, you can learn what they want you to learn.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.079
They don't need your time.
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:07.759
They can put out what they want.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.640
And this is why people get locked into images because they write up their own fantasy.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.680
We'll never get to know them as human beings ever again.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.880
Do you know the extraordinary thing, Ruby, after this chat?
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:28.319
And in your books, and in so much of what we do, we, the audience, get to know quite a lot about you, or we think we do.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.839
There's a bit of a paradox going on, which is wonderful.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:37.759
Because as you just say, people put out what they like, and maybe we all do that.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.000
But the point I'm making is you show us a great deal more than they do.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.720
And that's revealing and that's wonderful.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.480
But you're still, in many ways, you're still the same old Ruby.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.960
You haven't changed all that much, I don't think.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:57.759
I was playing a character then because of nerves and because I thought that would keep me going in a series.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.920
I don't think I was like that in real life.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:05.200
Whereas now I don't really put on that person, you know, who's kind of you know Zanian American.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:07.279
So I don't think I was her then.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.759
It was a good front for 25 years.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.200
It kept me going.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:20.640
If I played it differently, I would be, unless I, you know, it had to do with age, I would be more deadpan like Louis Thoreau, but it wasn't in me.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:25.839
Yeah, well Deadpan means you can go on for much longer because people are guessing what you are.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.079
Whereas it was obvious what I was.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:32.160
I want to see you back doing those big interviews.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:38.480
Because Yeah, okay, I can see people making the comparisons with Louis Thoreau, but you're both distinctive.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:51.200
But what you've got, I think, is an ability to engage in conversation without it looking like the subject feels like they're being interviewed.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:51.680
Right.
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:58.960
With Louis, yes, he gets into them and he gets them to apparently anyway to give honest answers.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.400
But it still feels like an interview, whereas with you it feels like it always felt like a chat.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:10.160
I mean, a probing one, getting into bed with Goldie Horn or whatever, goes beyond an interview.
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.640
The difference is I formed relationships.
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:13.119
Yeah.
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.039
And he's doing an interview.
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.119
Some of these people became my friends.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:22.160
And that was the point of my interviews, is I wanted to have some A-listers because I was so unpopular in high school.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.799
I thought, now I'm going to show you.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.440
I got some A-listers in my address book.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.200
So it was my revenge for being the ugly girl who was mocked.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:33.440
And I said, Now I know Tom Hanks.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.559
That was my reasoning.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:36.160
It worked and some.
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:41.279
Listen, dear listener, if you can, I don't know whether there are still tickets available.
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:50.079
They're probably going pretty quickly, but if you can catch Ruby on tour, Ruby and Clive, I should say, and relive those moments.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:54.079
Because they were unique in the true sense of the word.
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:55.680
As indeed are you, Ruby.
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:56.720
Thanks for your time today.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:58.799
You look really wonderful.
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.039
I wish I booked into one of your retreats.
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:02.799
To be honest, I'm a bit scared.
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:08.720
But maybe one day I'll get over it and I'll uh and I'll it'd be nice before the end to know your mind.
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:10.640
I mean, to me, that's the ultimate.
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.359
Not me know yours, you know yours.
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:14.720
I think I know what you mean.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.000
Come on, outro music.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.720
We need the outro music before I say something I don't mean to say.
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:20.640
Ruby, thank you so much.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.759
Thank you.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.519
Great interview.
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:22.320
I represented dozens of names, but we also work with hundreds more through their own agents.
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:32.640
And one such towering talent is the comedian, best-selling author and mental health campaigner, Ruby Wax Drumroll.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:33.679
How are you, Ruby?
00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:35.840
I don't like to say fine, but I'm fine.
00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.840
My stock answer is well enough, but unfortunately that makes people ask more questions.
00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.479
Like, you know, hail fellow, well met.
00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:43.359
You know, fine.
00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:43.679
Yes.
00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:44.799
We've saluted each other.
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:46.399
Now we can get on with reality.
00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:47.280
Do you know?
00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:53.200
In thinking about today, I remembered a conversation which you probably won't remember.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.200
A very long time ago, I can put an actual date on it.
00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:59.520
It was in 1997.
00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:12.560
I took a phone call from somebody organizing John Major's campaign tour in a hapless attempt to get re-elected as Prime Minister.
00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:13.120
Right.
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:17.519
And they wanted somebody effectively as a warm-up.
00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:23.040
And they were under pressure to go with Jim Davidson, if you remember Jim David.
00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:24.159
I remembered that, yeah.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:28.719
And the producer said we think we cannot have Jim Davidson.
00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:30.159
It will just be a nightmare.
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:32.000
So can you come up with somebody else?
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:33.439
So I drew up a long list.
00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:36.400
I mean, it was quite a long list, it was 30 or so names.
00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.920
And one by one I phoned everyone.
00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:44.879
And everyone's answer was you gotta be kidding.
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:46.079
No, no way.
00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:49.040
Except for you.
00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:50.879
Because I took the money and ran.
00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:52.000
That was your first question.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:53.840
I remember it now as though it was yesterday.
00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.439
Yeah, you said, What's the money?
00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:57.280
I don't know whether I gave you an answer.
00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:58.560
I don't know if I had an answer.
00:01:58.959 --> 00:01:59.760
Did I do it?
00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:00.640
No, you didn't.
00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:01.200
Oh, right.
00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:01.680
There you go.
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:02.719
Do you know who did?
00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:03.439
Who?
00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:04.799
Jim Davidson.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:06.480
You get what you asked for.
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:07.680
Well, quite.
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:08.400
Let's not go.
00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:12.879
Anyway, I just I just wanted to share that because I can't get rid of that memory.
00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:14.080
Just let me be clear.
00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:16.080
I don't think I would have done Sean Majors.
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:17.039
It wasn't the money.
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:18.319
I just want to be clear.
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:21.360
I think perhaps your answer might have been flippant.
00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:21.759
Yeah.
00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:24.240
I mean, it was a hiding to nothing, for goodness sake.
00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.400
But the conversation took place, I promise you.
00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:29.840
So I usually start with some kind of a recap.
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:36.719
Not that my listeners will need much of a reminder, but your extraordinary career.
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.240
I mean, truly extraordinary.
00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:39.520
You landed over here.
00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:41.199
I'm going to miss lots of bits out, by the way.
00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:42.719
We can skip birth.
00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.840
I can't remember in your memoir whether you went into that.
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.080
But I remember, I don't even know.
00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:51.199
Do I call it a wiener factory or a is that the right pronunciation?
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:53.120
You could say it wiener, yes.
00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:54.719
We're very proud of it.
00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:56.639
Sausage is another translation.
00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:57.199
Exactly.
00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:58.800
No, I really wanted to push myself.
00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:00.479
Anyway, we're not going to go into that.
00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.080
You landed on these shores.
00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.680
You found yourself eventually in the Royal Shakespeare Company.
00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:08.240
I clawed my way into the Royal Shakespeare Company.
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.199
Which would be another story, but we haven't got time for it today.
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:13.840
I saw you in Measure for Measure, the dates.
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:15.919
Oh, playing Horestroke None.
00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:20.719
It was an extraordinary production which I didn't fully understand.
00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.800
And that's before I knew that it was regarded as a problem play.
00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:30.560
I remember enjoying it as an A-level student, and I remember your performance, but I don't remember any detail.
00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:32.319
Anyway, so you did that.
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.479
Then was it your last outing as a nun?
00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.479
Yeah, it was my last outing as a nun that I never was asked again.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.520
And I thought I was Julia Stevens and I were fabulous.
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:47.919
We had Pac Marks, and eventually we were laden with Pac Marks.
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.319
We upstaged everybody else in the show.
00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:52.639
We had to improvise being hookers.
00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:59.039
And the assistant director made us go with through the town of Stratford being 17th century hookers.
00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:00.960
I got many clients.
00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:02.240
Many clients.
00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:04.560
I must have turned up late, unfortunately.
00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:05.199
You did.
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:10.560
You ended up after a little while in a sitcom called Girls on Top.
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:15.439
Then, and you did so many other things and appearances and as an actor.
00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:21.360
But you landed a chat show, and it became the first of a number of chat shows.
00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:33.600
Don't miss wax, the full wax, wax on wheels, and you start with French and Saunders, Comic Strip Presents, and you were also, I hadn't remembered this, I had to look it up.
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.079
You were script editor on Av Fab.
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.920
So it's the whole kind of front and behind camera stuff.
00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.000
And you have performed your One Woman show all over the place.
00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.439
Not just this country, but Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.
00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.040
You've been around, basically.
00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.240
And then I really you can you can tell I'm skipping now.
00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:53.360
I don't mind.
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.040
I love listening about me.
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.199
You did so do I actually.
00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:05.600
Then you decided, after seeing uh a comic relief campaign, to share your own experience of depression.
00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:09.439
And you went on to give a massive TED talk.
00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.639
A lot of my listeners will be fans of TED Talks, and you spoke about mental illness.
00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:27.439
And you went on to do a master's in mindfulness-based cognitive therapy and became a visiting professor in mental health mental health, mental health nursing.
00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:30.160
So that's a bit of a jump.
00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:36.240
Did you just decide to reinvent yourself or did it happen almost without thinking about it?
00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.639
Did you press pause on everything and say, I want to talk about me?
00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:41.519
What happened?
00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:48.319
Well, this the story is that Comic Relief asked me to pose for a poster, and I thought it was going to be a small poster.
00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:50.160
It was raising money for mental health.
00:05:50.399 --> 00:06:00.000
And instead, they put huge posters in the tube station, giant ones that said, with my face saying one in four people have mental illness, one in five people have dandruff.
00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.040
I have both.
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:02.399
And I was mortified.
00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:04.000
They didn't ask for my permission.
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.879
So I had to write a show because I pretended that was my publicity poster for a show.
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:10.160
I didn't have one.
00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:17.680
So I wrote a show about mental health, but I didn't want it to be in the public because good luck holding on to a job.
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:23.600
So I presented it in mental institutions for two years for free, including the priory.
00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.560
I did life from the priory where half were my friends and half were inmates.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.319
So nobody knew what was going on.
00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.560
Some people just screamed all the way through it.
00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:34.560
The bipolars laughed and cried.
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:36.000
I mean, it was just mayhem.
00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:42.000
But I enjoyed it so much I did go to clinics for two years because the audiences were fantastic.
00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:43.439
I got material.
00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:44.959
And so that's how it happened.
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.519
Then I became associated with mental health.
00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:49.680
And then you studied it seriously.
00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:53.759
And then I was thrown out lovingly from the BBC.
00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.319
Alan Yentob took over my job.
00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.720
You know, they said I didn't get enough ratings.
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:00.079
Well, we had 14 million.
00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.160
But I mean, I'm not bitter because I wouldn't have gotten an OBE if I didn't get kicked out.
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.879
So then I thought I have to reinvent again.
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:08.959
So I became a psychotherapist.
00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:10.959
I was terrible as a psychotherapist.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:14.800
Because I kept saying, oh, just cut to the punchline, you know, just get to the end.
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:19.360
I couldn't stand the, you know, that we didn't know what his mind was about, and that was my interest.
00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:21.199
I can crack people really.
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.519
That's my only gift, I think, is that I can crack them and figure them out.
00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.439
That's why I did all the celebrity interviews because I wasn't interested in their career.
00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:33.040
I was interested in who they really were and what were they hiding.
00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.879
I got into Oxford eventually to study mindfulness.
00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:50.480
Okay, well, let's just take a break very quickly because I think for one of my own company away days, or whatever we used to call them, we kind of inverted commas did mindfulness.
00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.360
But I never really got what it was.
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.120
Can you come up with the definition?
00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.879
I studied the neuroscience of it, so I like to when I explain.
00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.920
It's not in a pat little sentence, you sit there and breathe.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:06.399
I explain what is happening in your brain when you're doing specific exercises.
00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:17.120
And that's building a bulk in certain areas of the brain that are exactly what you're after, which is how to lower your own cortisol when you're in a situation where the shit hits the fan.
00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:20.720
But you know, people say I relax by jogging or I do golf.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:28.160
But if you're in the midst of chaos or your kids are screaming, or your boss is about to fire you, you can't say I'm getting out of the golf clubs.
00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:32.000
So mindfulness is something, it's a it's something to use in the situation.
00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.919
You don't get locked in anger.
00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.279
You can lower your cortisol and you can focus your attention.
00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:42.639
So the exercise, which I demonstrate, is exactly like explaining somebody doing a sit-up.
00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.679
You know, you lie down, you get up, you lie down, you get up.
00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:47.279
Eventually you'll get a six-pack.
00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:54.000
So with the mindfulness exercise, you're building up muscle in the brain so that you can do exactly what I just said you could do.
00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.240
And I can bring down my anger, which was my emotion of choice.
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.679
I always love to express anger because it gives you such an adrenaline hit is delicious.
00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.399
I mean, nobody ever gets addicted to things that are good for you.
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:07.759
Nobody gets addicted to kale.
00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:09.519
I love that rage.
00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.879
And now I know what it does to your health, so I pull it down.
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:21.440
I am glossing over the fact that you've become an absolute authority on matters of mental health.
00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:25.200
You've written, I've got a list here, is it six books about mental health?
00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:27.679
How do you want me to say new world?
00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:34.799
Mindfulness guide for the frazzled, how to be human, and now for the good news, and a mindfulness guide for survival.
00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:36.960
That's probably not in chronological order.
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:44.080
The mindfulness guide, which I had a very quick look at, you talk about the six big realities.
00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:48.000
Okay, just to list them so that the listeners get it quickly.
00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:56.159
Difficult emotions, uncertainty, loneliness, change, dissatisfaction, and the big one death.
00:09:56.799 --> 00:09:59.279
I mean, I guess that encompasses just about everything.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:03.759
Your point is we all go through all of those things.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:12.080
So we need to equip ourselves and know what's happening and have a clue, just some kind of idea how to deal with each one.
00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:13.120
Is that in a nutshell?
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:13.519
Yeah.
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:15.360
Well, I wrote it during COVID.
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:19.120
And these are the things that, you know, existentially we've never figured out.
00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:20.799
So much we haven't figured out.
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:25.519
If you can deal with those, then you're, you know, you're liberated from your own mind.
00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:30.000
Uncertainty is the only thing that's certain and how to deal with change.
00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:34.159
People don't know that every second, every millisecond, everything is changing.
00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:41.200
So the part of the mindfulness is to understand how to you notice what state you're in, but then you release it.
00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.840
Where you pay attention is who you are in that moment.
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:48.159
If you decide, I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough, you're not good enough.
00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:57.840
But if you let that thought go, because it's just a recording, eventually you learn to live with these little negative influencers that you had from childhood.
00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.000
But I don't want to be captured by it.
00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.240
It's like having a scar from your youth.
00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:08.080
Eventually it gets fainter and fainter, but you're in charge rather than enhancing the pain.
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:13.200
Just on that subject of change, it's kind of all around us now.
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.480
And it was always I mean, I get that.
00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:18.159
It's in a high speed.
00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.080
And it's everywhere, I guess, is the point I'm trying to make.
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:34.159
It's out there in the world in terms of shifting sands, relationships between countries, and is my job still going to exist in however many years' time?
00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:37.360
And am I going to be able to get a mortgage or afford one?
00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:43.039
All those questions, partly depending on age, I guess, and uh your own kind of circumstances.
00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:50.399
There's a whole lot of change going on out there, as well as whatever you're dealing with internally, as it were.
00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.720
Because I know you do that, you do that for my old company still, and they love you.
00:11:55.039 --> 00:12:00.799
When you're talking to conferences and people about leadership and change and things like that.
00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:03.120
I mean, this is the interesting thing to me.
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:08.399
These are not rooms full of people who've paid to come and see you as they are when you're on tour.
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:18.480
These are people who go where they're told to go, sit in the seat, and then Ruby Wax, lo and behold, is out in front of them talking about mental health and leadership and change.
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:20.399
What's your shtick to those people?
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:25.279
My shtick is that you paid for me, you know, for an hour or whatever, and it's not going to change you at all.
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:30.879
You've just check marked that you've discussed something about mental illness or health, whatever you want to call it.
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:41.360
But I do give them tools to recognize that we know nothing about how the mothership works, first of all, but there is a way of getting a little bit of knowledge about it.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.120
So I do talk a little bit, and they like this about neuroscience.
00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:51.039
But I dumb it down and I make it funny because once you get their mouths open, you can shove anything down there.
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:56.480
Um, so it, you know, I at least I presented in a way that's not a lecture and they're intimidated.
00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:58.559
Oh, here's something else I don't know about.
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:04.960
So I do give them tools because I think people discuss this is what's wrong, this is the world of changers, whatever.
00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.279
But I want to have what do I walk away with?
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.559
And so I do give them some tools to walk away with.
00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.000
How to deal with you know the chaos around us.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:17.039
Hold on while the winds are blowing.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:18.559
So you don't blow away.
00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:19.919
We need to have an anchor.
00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.320
Do you ever hear back from them afterwards?
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:26.960
Do you ever hear that they've actually done some of the things that you were talking about?
00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:28.399
I do retreats.
00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.799
So a lot of them show up at my retreats now.
00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.919
And I do them at home and I do them in in retreat centers.
00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:35.519
I do hear that they picked up on it.
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:40.720
I meet people at my shows who say, after you spoke at our company or whatever, I still do what you were talking about.
00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:41.919
And it's changed me.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:43.200
You want to change people.
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.039
You don't want to just talk at them.
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.679
If their minds aren't listening, they're not there.
00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.240
So I get them into the room mentally.
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.080
And I think that's what I can do.
00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.159
That must be one of the most gratifying things out there, isn't it?
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:59.919
Isn't it a a bit like getting a big laugh in front of a live audience?
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:04.480
So that's my challenge with all my shows is make them laugh.
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.360
Because otherwise you don't deserve to give information.
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.279
You have to deserve giving us a serious message.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.039
So give them some foreplay.
00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:14.799
Something else I'm going to write down.
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:18.720
If I turn up at one of your retreats, which you do it at home, I gather.
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:20.080
I do it at home too.
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:20.399
Yeah.
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:22.000
We 20 people come.
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:26.320
They come downstairs, it's catered, it's a day where I teach them what to do.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.399
And they really have great results.
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.360
I'm not being am I proselytizing my own work.
00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:36.960
I kind of imagine everybody sitting there in sort of bathrobes with nice smells going on in the background.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:38.559
Well, I don't do teaching.
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.399
I don't sit on a gluten-free cushion.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:48.879
The way I teach it is very practical, so that you can smoke, you can swim, you can do sword fighting, you can put your kids to bed, but you can do it in a different way.
00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.399
But you have to do an exercise, maybe a minute a day.
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:57.919
Everybody has this entitlement that if they just push the right button or take the right drug, everything will be okay.
00:14:58.159 --> 00:14:59.600
You have to do something.
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.799
You have to conquer the brain, otherwise, the brain will conquer you.
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.440
Your recent book, I'm not as well as I thought I was.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.440
I mean, the title is self-explanatory, but what made you write that?
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.279
Well, it was tongue-in-cheek.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.559
It was during COVID.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.919
And I thought when this is over, I'm going to do something with more depth.
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.120
I'm going to find meaning.
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.440
So I challenged myself to go on a 30-day silent retreat.
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:24.960
I just picked the extremes.
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.679
I went to work at refugee camps and tried to get people out of Afghanistan.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.600
I swam with whales off backs that were migrating back up to Iceland.
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:34.720
I mean, there were big ones.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:42.960
I lived in a Christian monastery and to see the results, to see if they would deepen me or, you know, lead me anywhere inspiring.
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:44.159
They did.
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.480
They really put their money where their mouth is.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.039
The descriptions of them in my book are funny.
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:58.639
You know, a 30-day silent retreat is going to be with that gong going off all the time, telling you now to walk, to eat, to whatever, that made my cervix vibrate.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:16.000
And when they take away your phone, the desperation you are to kind of have something to do, when they take away everything, what you're left with is I wanted to go shopping so badly, I started buying stones in my own mind and making deals with myself, how much they would be, and then returning them the next day.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:17.360
They weren't the right stone.
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.279
You know, you want to do what you do to distract yourself from your thoughts.
00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:27.200
But eventually, after a week, the thoughts get so exhausting that they start to quiet down.
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:33.039
And then, I'm sure this is why kids do psilocybin, suddenly colors look much more poignant.
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.240
Food, I had a love affair with the digestive.
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.279
Food starts to be delicious because you don't have to sit next to somebody and ask them what they do for a living.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.399
I ran into the kitchen and I broke my silence.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.000
I said, How did you make this egg?
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.360
My tears were coming out.
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.960
They said, With an egg, everything becomes more poignant.
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:56.639
Once those thoughts shut up, which is impossible, you know, that really takes discipline.
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.080
I mean, they're quieter.
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:00.559
They're not completely gone because we're creatures that think.
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:02.399
It became really interesting.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:10.640
And then I ended up, ironically, and what makes the book kind of funny is I ended up in a mental board at the very end of all this.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.680
But there's a reason.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.279
I wanted to do psilocybin, so I came off my medication and I ended up in a clinic.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.519
I know it's a cliche, everybody wants to try this, but that was part of my journey.
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.000
The lesson is don't come off your medication.
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:24.559
Wow.
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.480
So I did all these extraordinary things which were life-changing.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:28.880
Yeah.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:30.960
Every one of them was life-changing.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:37.440
And I could see, you know, how with neuroplasticity the inner landscape was changing.
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.200
But then I have depression.
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:40.720
I need those drugs.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:42.160
And I was depleted.
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.240
So I went back to square one.
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:45.680
It was a waste.
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:47.599
But that's what happened.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.039
My goodness.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:58.960
And then, sublime to ridiculous, some would say, you accepted an invitation to go on to the last series of I'm a Celeb, get me out of here.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:01.599
What made you accept that invitation?
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:02.960
I'm I don't know.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.000
Am I surprised?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.759
Maybe not, but I'm intrigued.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.440
To me, reality shows are the lowest form of life on the on earth.
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:14.559
So I I've been turning it down, but suddenly they said, here's who would be with you.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.319
You'd find everybody interesting.
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:17.359
I believe them.
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.119
They said, This isn't about conflict.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.200
You'll like every single one of them, and I thrive in a communal atmosphere.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.799
That's where I'm at my best.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.200
Even people that everybody else would find loathsome, I can find interesting.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.599
So I thought this is an opportunity to lose weight because that you really don't eat.
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:34.720
I've lost a stone.
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.720
It was just a human experiment.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.559
My children were appalled because they said that's an appalling show.
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.599
For some reason, I like having new adventures.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.039
Otherwise, you don't shift.
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.039
You just become same old, same old.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.559
And it turned out to be one of the most rewarding things I've ever done in my life.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:52.799
I mean, I made friends with 23-year-olds.
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:53.839
Where do you meet them?
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.160
I did say what makes you like me so much.
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.160
And they said, because you remind me of my man.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:04.079
I thought it was because I was so cool or attractive, but I loved every single one of those people.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.599
And you didn't know where the cameras were, so you weren't performing.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:09.200
You were totally yourself.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:11.599
You know, throw me into a situation like that.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.799
I do that in my real life anyway, the fact that it was filmed.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.759
I bought a place in Findhorn, which is a communal eco village.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.920
I mean, to me, that's experimental.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.400
I love just changing the locale, like you change your screensaver.
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.079
I literally change it.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:29.920
You won't remember this either.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:35.920
You and Ed once walked into a cottage I owned.
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:37.119
Oh my god.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.039
I mean, I think I know what you're gonna say.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.440
Go on.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:40.720
Quite literally.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.519
You weren't the only person to do so, I have to say.
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:52.799
The front door was open for whatever reason, and this American couple came in, and I was there with somebody else, and I was just open-mouthed, thinking, What are you doing in my house?
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:55.119
I didn't say anything, I just watched them.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.359
And they wandered around.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.400
And then after a while they said, We're just gonna go upstairs.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.559
And I I went, uh okay.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.039
And then a few minutes later they left.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:10.480
The difference with you and Ed being that we had a chat outside, and you said, Do you mind if we have a look around?
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:11.839
Where was your house?
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.240
In a Disney fied Cotswold village called Lois Slaughter.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:19.279
Oh my god, that's magnificent.
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:24.799
And I think you were partly there because the house round the corner was for sale.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.359
And it was funny and it was lovely.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:29.200
But it's weird.
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:34.079
It's weird to have people coming at your house as though you're an extra.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.720
Your house wasn't for sale, I just walked in.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:37.920
I mean, that's something I do.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.240
You asked, and that was cool.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:55.279
One day I was outside the little garden at the front, I remember picking up my mug of coffee on the windowsill and lighting a flag as I do, and then got a sense that something strange was happening.
00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:05.759
And I turned around towards the little kind of village green, and there were uh half a dozen Japanese people looking at me and pointing.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.680
I felt I was in some kind of theme park.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:14.640
I felt, you know, I ought to have straw coming out of my mouth or something, I ought to play my part.
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:15.839
God, it was weird.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:26.480
But you didn't buy the house on the corner, and you had, I think, the insight to realize that had you done so, you would have had people staring at you the whole time.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.279
Oh, really?
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.119
Was that the reason I didn't like your house?
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:30.079
I've no idea.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:31.519
No, my house wasn't for sale.
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:33.519
Let's let's let's let's That's the funniest.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.559
That's the funniest.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.680
But I used to walk into people's homes and say, Would you sell me this?
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.200
That wasn't unusual.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.559
Uh I would see a house and say, I'd like to buy this.
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:43.759
So you didn't want to.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.319
You know what?
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.319
I was really just looking at the house.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.599
You know, I wanted to get in homes and just see how everybody lived.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.920
Well, I didn't really live there, so I guess it that probably showed as well.
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.839
It looked probably like a rental cottage.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.079
Anyway, I want to come bang up to date.
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.839
Well, sort of come up to date.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:09.920
I want to talk about the tour that you're doing right now, from now to July, from South End to Newcastle, taking two places at random.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.200
And you're playing 200 yards from my house in Barry St.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:13.759
Edmonds.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:18.799
So I will be there on the 5th of May, as will a number of my listeners.
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.440
Otherwise, I'll go to your home and drag you out.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.440
Well, you probably will know anyway, wouldn't you?
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.200
You walk around and you'll go, hmm.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:27.039
That was for me.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.000
The tour is called Absolutely Famous.
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:40.240
And at its heart, as I understand it, correct me where I go wrong, is you and Clive, the wonderful Clive, who you've worked with for a long, long, 25 years, yeah.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:48.160
I talked to Clive a few years ago about um touring somebody that I uh represented at the time.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.079
And I had this I actually think it's quite a good idea.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:57.359
And I think Clive might have done it, but you know, circumstances or whatever.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.480
So I have a very, very greatest of respect for Clive.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:07.599
So Clive is your producer, and you two go back certainly to the wax meat space.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.079
Yeah.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.359
And that's the core, as I understand it, the core of the show.
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:20.400
So you're telling stories and you're showing clips, among other things, of some of the people you did those legendary interviews with.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:27.279
Yeah, we show but we're talking about the nature of fame, the nature of what it takes to be a murderer.
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.799
You know, I went from everyone from you know Madonna to O.J.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.240
Simpson to Amelda Marcos to Donald Trump.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.240
Guess which category I put him in.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:41.200
But we do kind of discuss what really happened rather than what you're seeing.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.599
But what you're seeing is pretty extraordinary.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:46.640
As I imagine lots of your audience will do.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:58.319
That must be what it felt like.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:04.319
When he refers to you as the world's most obnoxious reporter.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:06.319
Yeah.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.759
I mean, my mouth was open in disbelief.
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:11.519
I don't remember seeing it at the time.
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:23.920
You go with him into his casino and the Taj Mahal and watch him signing books for people who lost money there.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:39.440
Yeah, the Millionaires Club, where they have to spend a million in his casino, and these are poor trailer park people, so God knows how they got a million, but probably borrowed it, and then that he makes them buy his books, and they're adoring him and having him sign it.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.480
It's a loathsome scene, but it's so revealing.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.039
Steal from the poor and take to the rich.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:53.279
Which, you know, is a game we might be seeing, well, not a game, a story we might be seeing playing out all over again.
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:55.119
But watching you and Melania.
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:56.400
Oh, yeah.
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.759
That was different.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:24:59.440
That looked like you were having fun.
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.680
I mean, you were smiling, she was smiling.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:08.480
And she was, insofar as uh an international model ever is, she was in Petacoma's normal.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:09.839
What did you discover?
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.799
Anything about her?
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.279
Or She reminded me of Pamela Anderson.
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:14.799
You know, she had no front.
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.480
You know, she was she had a big front.
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.440
She didn't have an image that she was holding on to.
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:23.359
And she could play ball, and that always shows me how smart they are.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:27.200
They could do the irony with me, and so it's like playing a tennis game.
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.440
I'd throw something to her, she'd throw it back.
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:31.519
And you watch a rapport happening.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:36.400
Whereas with somebody who doesn't get the joke, like Madonna, it falls flat on its face.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.200
But bad television is still good television.
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:40.160
I liked her.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:41.359
She was in love with him.
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.319
She found him incredibly sexy, Donald Trump.
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:46.799
And she told me how what she likes to do in bed.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:48.319
I mean, it's fine.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:49.759
And I tell her the same thing.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:51.920
I mean, I'm always honest with my guess.
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.920
I told her I wouldn't sleep with Donald Trump and I found him lothsome.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.599
My guess is that he wouldn't have slept with you either.
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:00.559
And he didn't.
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.000
He found me disgusting.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.000
Which is a badge of pride, isn't it?
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.279
Isn't that something you're quite proud about?
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.519
No, it's it was a terrible interview.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:12.400
I mean, he made me so nervous that if somebody treats you like an idiot, you become an idiot.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.880
So I was asking moronic questions.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:15.759
I didn't hold my own.
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:17.680
It happened with Bill Cosby, too.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.000
There's something so evil in front of you.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.200
I'm not talking politically, I'm just talking as a human being.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:32.240
There was such hatred and such of kind of visceral disgust that I wasn't even human, and he threw me off his plane at 33,000 feet.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.119
When I met Bill Cosby, he tried to choke me to death.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:38.880
So you kind of know, give me a few years and I'll reveal these people.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:40.240
Wow.
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:47.119
You know, the interview that I couldn't find online was the one with Sarah Ferguson.
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.039
And I think the BBC made us take it off, but you see it in the show.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.039
And that's incredibly revealing.
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.960
That's what characterized your.
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:06.880
I think somewhere I saw them described as comedy documentaries, your long-form interviews where you're having fun, you're following people around, you're programming them, you're asking questions that nobody else will ask.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.799
And because you do it in that way, they answer you.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:12.000
It's extraordinary.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:13.359
It's mind-blowing.
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:31.279
And even that little clip that is still out there of you with Sarah Ferguson noticing the post-it notes she has on a chest of drawers, and which drawer has got the white t-shirts, and which drawer has got the pink t-shirts.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:38.000
And it's because apparently she was in such a rush in the mornings that she didn't want to waste time trying to remember.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:39.680
Opening the drawers.
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:40.319
Yeah.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.720
Also telling me that she was injected with something, and that made her crazy.
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:52.480
She was on a diet, so she had some injections done when she was 16, and she said that was responsible for her peculiar behavior.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:55.599
And so I said, an injection made you crazy?
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.400
I mean, clearly she was delusional.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.400
And of all my guests, everybody had a talent except her.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.240
She just wanted fame so badly and would do anything for it.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:07.759
And we see the results now.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:08.720
Anything for it.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.119
She wanted attention and she wanted power.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:12.400
And she got neither.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.680
I was with people for a week, and I'd always have dinner with them.
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.759
So you would see who they really were.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.160
I didn't get that interview after a half an hour.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:21.920
It was sometimes 17 hours.
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.039
Sometimes it was a week.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:23.519
O.J.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:25.839
Simpson was three days.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.160
So it looks like I'm getting right into them, but I am, you know, I'm warming them up.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:35.440
She says how how she regrets what she's done in her life back then.
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.839
And you can see she's kind of addicted to gazumping herself.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:45.119
So you do learn this is a person who will do anything for some attention.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.000
Anything.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.000
And plays the humble card.
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.720
I don't know if this is a ridiculous question or not, but did you feel sorry for her?
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:54.640
And do you feel sorry for her now?
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.079
I did feel sorry for her.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.079
I've Clive and I both felt kind of bad that she didn't want to cut anything out.
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:02.720
But we kept saying, take out what you don't want.
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.400
Now I don't feel sorry for her.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:04.880
No.
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:11.519
I think it's disgusting that she gets a pedophile in jail and asks them for a loan and knows exactly what's going on.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.279
That's a different ballpark.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.160
I can talk to you about those interviews forever.
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:19.440
I love the Victoria Beckham one, by the way, of the Spice Girls.
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:20.160
Oh, right.
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.559
Thank you.
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:27.519
The chat with this really kind of ordinary, down to earth.
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:28.960
I think she still was.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.880
She comes across as down to earth then.
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:31.839
Yeah, she was.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:32.880
Down to earth.
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.319
You kind of watch it.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:35.680
And do you know what I thought?
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:42.079
And what I think your audiences, a lot of them, will be thinking when they watch these clips and listen to you and Clive.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:46.960
They'll be thinking, oh, Ruby, go back, do it again, do it now.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:54.319
Give us a wax meets with Victoria Beckham these days, and we can see where she came from and what she's become.
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.000
Any chance at all of that happening?
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:56.799
No chance.
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.079
I would do it in a second.
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:00.880
You'd never be allowed to get the access that I had.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:04.720
Because, you know, the internet, you can learn what they want you to learn.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.079
They don't need your time.
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:07.759
They can put out what they want.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.640
And this is why people get locked into images because they write up their own fantasy.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.680
We'll never get to know them as human beings ever again.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.880
Do you know the extraordinary thing, Ruby, after this chat?
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:28.319
And in your books, and in so much of what we do, we, the audience, get to know quite a lot about you, or we think we do.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.839
There's a bit of a paradox going on, which is wonderful.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:37.759
Because as you just say, people put out what they like, and maybe we all do that.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.000
But the point I'm making is you show us a great deal more than they do.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.720
And that's revealing and that's wonderful.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.480
But you're still, in many ways, you're still the same old Ruby.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.960
You haven't changed all that much, I don't think.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:57.759
I was playing a character then because of nerves and because I thought that would keep me going in a series.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.920
I don't think I was like that in real life.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:05.200
Whereas now I don't really put on that person, you know, who's kind of you know Zanian American.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:07.279
So I don't think I was her then.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.759
It was a good front for 25 years.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.200
It kept me going.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:20.640
If I played it differently, I would be, unless I, you know, it had to do with age, I would be more deadpan like Louis Thoreau, but it wasn't in me.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:25.839
Yeah, well Deadpan means you can go on for much longer because people are guessing what you are.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.079
Whereas it was obvious what I was.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:32.160
I want to see you back doing those big interviews.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:38.480
Because Yeah, okay, I can see people making the comparisons with Louis Thoreau, but you're both distinctive.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:51.200
But what you've got, I think, is an ability to engage in conversation without it looking like the subject feels like they're being interviewed.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:51.680
Right.
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:58.960
With Louis, yes, he gets into them and he gets them to apparently anyway to give honest answers.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.400
But it still feels like an interview, whereas with you it feels like it always felt like a chat.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:10.160
I mean, a probing one, getting into bed with Goldie Horn or whatever, goes beyond an interview.
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.640
The difference is I formed relationships.
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:13.119
Yeah.
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.039
And he's doing an interview.
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.119
Some of these people became my friends.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:22.160
And that was the point of my interviews, is I wanted to have some A-listers because I was so unpopular in high school.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.799
I thought, now I'm going to show you.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.440
I got some A-listers in my address book.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.200
So it was my revenge for being the ugly girl who was mocked.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:33.440
And I said, Now I know Tom Hanks.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.559
That was my reasoning.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:36.160
It worked and some.
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:41.279
Listen, dear listener, if you can, I don't know whether there are still tickets available.
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:50.079
They're probably going pretty quickly, but if you can catch Ruby on tour, Ruby and Clive, I should say, and relive those moments.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:54.079
Because they were unique in the true sense of the word.
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:55.680
As indeed are you, Ruby.
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:56.720
Thanks for your time today.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:58.799
You look really wonderful.
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.039
I wish I booked into one of your retreats.
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:02.799
To be honest, I'm a bit scared.
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:08.720
But maybe one day I'll get over it and I'll uh and I'll it'd be nice before the end to know your mind.
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:10.640
I mean, to me, that's the ultimate.
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.359
Not me know yours, you know yours.
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:14.720
I think I know what you mean.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.000
Come on, outro music.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.720
We need the outro music before I say something I don't mean to say.
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:20.640
Ruby, thank you so much.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.759
Thank you.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.519
Great interview.
