Graham Stack: Inside The Invincibles Dressing Room & Why The Goalkeepers’ Union Is A Lie

WEBVTT
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Our guest today is someone who's experienced football from just about every angle.
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That was clearly Dave's uh Dave Simmer's boots at the time as well.
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I felt I was privileged to be able to make sure his boots were tied in.
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A former Arsenal Academy product, an invincible era squad member.
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They have some big characters in there.
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Like Patrick, Sol, Dennis, Thierry.
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It was like the maddest feeling ever.
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Like going to games, go to Old Trafford, knowing that you're not going to lose.
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From title winning dressing rooms to survival in the lower leagues.
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You just think that journey is going to go forever, naively.
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And when it gets cut short, it's quite hard for us to swallow.
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He now brings ex-players together, raising money for charity and creating an event with a real purpose behind it.
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As we've sort of coming to the end of their career and leading football, some of the boys are finding it tough.
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I wanted to try and come up with a concept where we could all get involved, all going on this journey together to ultimately raise money.
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Welcome, Graham Stack, to the Beyond the Box podcast.
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Welcome, mate.
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Very well, thank you.
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How are you?
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Yeah, I'm good, mate.
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I'm good.
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Welcome to the studio.
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Welcome.
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Um how you been?
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I've been very well.
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I've been busy.
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Uh it's a same studio, by the way.
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It's nice, isn't it?
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Yeah, they've gone done a really good job, haven't they?
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And built it up over time, yeah.
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It started off as shambles, an absolute shambles, but we've got there eventually, haven't we?
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Yeah, my boy, my boy Affi will be gutted because he wanted to come desperately and take a day off school.
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But he's uh I thought it'd be best uh best not to do that and upset my partner.
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So uh he hasn't come, but blind me when I've walked in and I've seen all his gloves, it'd be uh it'd be in his element, be gutted.
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Did he wear does he wear one glove?
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He does, yeah.
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He loves him, absolutely loves him.
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Well no, I do because Marles looks after me.
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Miles sends me a couple couple of pairs every now and again, so and they are the best gloves.
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Uh so yeah, he uh he loves them.
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Wicked.
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I want to start this episode by talking about your time at Arsenal because that's probably what you're you're best known for in your playing career.
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Tell tell people about your time at Arsenal, how you were at the club, how you grew your career there, and take us through your journey working with Yens and all the experiences that you had there.
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Yeah, so it's an incredible journey, really.
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I've I mean I started off at the club as a nine-year-old uh and initially went in as I was I was on trial at the club as a midfielder.
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So I was training at the JVC Centre.
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Uh Pat Rice and George Armstrong were my sort of youth team managers at the time.
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And then I went on a Bob Wilson uh sort of camp.
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It was a it was an overnight camp, so it was a residential, it was in Potter's Bar.
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So I went there for for the week and done extremely well.
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Probably about 100 goalies, if not more.
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Uh Hans Hagers was one of the coaches, Alex Welsh was one of the coaches, Perry Sucklin, uh, and obviously Bob Wilson himself.
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Uh done really well.
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And I was uh voted best goalkeeper of the camp.
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Uh and I was presented a signed David Seaman shirt uh on a Friday uh in front of everyone, all the coaches, all the all the goalkeepers, and my parents.
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And uh it was after it was the the green JVC one, by the way, which is like I remember it, yeah, yeah iconic.
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Yeah, iconic, yeah.
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So which I still have.
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Uh and after I was presented with the award from Bob, he said I need to have a chat with your mum and dad.
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So I said, Yeah, no problem.
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Went over and Bob said uh to my dad, he said, Look, your son's got real potential.
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You know, we think he's we we'd love to get him into Arsenal.
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My dad was like, he's at Arsenal.
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He was like, Oh, he didn't mention that.
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He's like, Yeah, but he's in he's he's playing midfield.
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So Bob went okay, let me have a chat with the club and let me see what we can arrange.
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So I actually sort of sort of it was like a bit in a head.
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I was like playing out on pitch for like a couple of weeks and I was getting goal for a couple of weeks and got to the point where I had to make a decision.
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I think when Bob Wilson sort of gives you an inkling that you've got a chance of becoming a goalkeeper, I think that's advice uh that you probably you don't want to turn down.
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So that was the start of my journey, really.
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I went into Arsenal, I signed school boy forbs off the back of that, sort of get to the age of 16, 18, apprenticeship, YTS.
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Uh found myself in probably the the best youth team in the country.
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Uh there's no doubt.
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But you my youth team, it was us and West Ham, to be fair.
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Uh, I think West Ham won the youth cup the previous year, we won it back to back after that.
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Um, I played in one of them years, but we had the likes of Jay Bothroyd, David Noble, Steve Sidwell, Jerome Thomas, Jermaine Pennant, Jeremy Ledier, Morris Folk, Ben Chorley.
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We had loads.
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Uh, so blessed to be in such a great team.
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Youth team coaches are incredible.
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Uh, we had uh Neil Banfield, uh, we had Liam Brady was our youth youth development officer, and obviously Bob Wilson was our goalkeeping coach.
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So, yeah, blessed with quality players and and obviously great coaches.
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So, yeah, one of the youth cup, and then after that, you sort of start to take it what it starts to get serious because you're now thinking next move for me is obviously trying to sign a professional contract.
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Even at sort of 16, I was like, I was training with David Seaman on like a day-to-day basis.
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It was like me, Dave, Alex Malinga, Richard Wright, Stuart Taylor, John Lukic.
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I was clearly Dave's uh Dave Seaman's boots at the time as well, because that was part parcel of one of your roles as a big book.
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Just the one set?
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Just the one set?
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No, he had a couple, yeah, he had a couple, and uh I do my very, very best to make sure they were the best boots in the boot room because that was just it was Dave Seaman, he was one of my adults, and I felt I was privileged to be able to make sure his boots were tidy and nice and clean for the weekend.
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So uh, so yeah, that was yeah, that that was off well, what a blessing really to be able to sort of gain knowledge and and not just like verbally when you were talking about goalkeeping, but just actually visually just being able to be on the same training ground day in, day out, working with with the best in the country, arguably the best around the world.
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So that was a massive help for me uh to get advice as well, uh, you know, off the pitch about that.
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Sometimes they would give me advice about being a young goalkeeper and what I need to be doing better, and uh and bits and pieces, which which is always very valuable.
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And then I would also get opportunities to train with the first team.
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So even as a young kid, what I'm 16, 17, I'd yeah, I'd get opportunities to go with the first team and train with them, which uh obviously the the calibre of players that were involved at the time were were out of this world, you know.
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We're talking full international World Cup winners, England International's captain.
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So so yeah, so very, very fortunate.
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Um, I worked extremely hard as a young lad.
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I would probably go as far as I say as I probably wasn't the most talented um if I was to compare myself with somebody like Stuart Taylor.
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Stuart Taylor had all the tools to be a top, top goalie, like in my opinion, probably should have played for England.
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Um, but I always felt as though I had a mindset and probably different qualities in terms of say lunacy, but I was certainly I sort of I saw myself as a leader as from a very young age, good communicator.
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I thought it was very vocal, I thought I saw I had presence around the goal, uh, but not just that, but in around the change room and around the training ground.
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So um they they were definitely qualities that put me in a good place sort of moving forward when I was training with senior pros because I felt confident, I felt as you know I could hold my own.
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Uh and then yeah, it just progressed really, and then I signed my first pro deal uh and then found my way into the first team after a year or so, a couple of you know, it was a lone move.
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I went to Millwall uh in the championship.
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My very first lone move was when I was 19.
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Went over to Belgium, played for a club called Bivelen, uh, just outside Antwerp, played with Yeah Torre, Colo Torre.
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Uh, and it was me, Stephen Sidwell, John Halls, and Liam Chilvers, who were all academy products at the time that had come through at Arsenal.
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And it was from the advice of Arson, really.
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Arson sort of sat me down and said, Look, opportunities will be limited here rather than playing Academy football, uh reserve football.
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This would be a great opportunity for you to go and test yourself in a different environment, different culture, with different coaches, have got different ideas and philosophies, different language, you know, so many things that just were standing out to me, going, Well, this is a no-brainer, I've got to go and take this experience.
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So I went over there, absolutely loved it.
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Played teams like Andelette, Club Rouge, Standard Liege, all were in the Champions League at the time.
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I was like 19.
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Um, and actually done really well over there uh while I was there.
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Yeah, there was when you play abroad, you get interest from crazy countries like there was people from like Galatashari, Fenabarci there week in, week out, and you know, buying Munich, Dortmund, because it was like close to where they sort of where they would be based.
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And I think they were coming to probably look at a lot of the Ivorian boys that we had in the had in the team at the time.
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So I always felt as though that was an opportunity for me to shine uh and put myself in a position where people would take notice.
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So yeah, an incredible experience.
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Uh all my low moves really have been beneficial for me, uh, not just for reasons on the pitch, but to grow up a little bit outside of football as well.
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So yeah, and then after some uh yeah, after some sacrifices, some loan moves, it's not always easy going on alone as a kid.
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And I say a kid, I was 19, but you know, that that's that's living on your own, that's fed it for yourself, that's not having any family or friends around, that's making your own decisions and having to live by them.
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Uh so when I got back from my loan moves, I felt I was in a much better place.
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I felt I'd grown up and matured and felt as though the time was right really now for me to try and push uh and get into the Arsenal first team.
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And then I was given an opportunity uh in the League Cup, uh, which was the Carling Cup at the time.
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Um I was I I felt leading up to the game, I thought I'd get an opportunity.
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So it was me, Jens Lehman, Rami Shaban, Stuart Taylor.
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Um, I'd been involved with the first team and on the squad for I couldn't say how many games, but it was quite a few games before the actual because we came in later, obviously, because because we were in the Champions League and stuff.
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So uh and then I had a chat with Arsenal, he said, Look, I want to give you the opportunity to play, I think you deserve it.
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And I was like, Wow, okay, highbree, debut.
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So we played Rotherham.
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I had two coach loads of people that uh came from my pub to come and watch because I was living in a pub at the time.
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They had flags, my mum had t-shirts made up with my face on it, my name on the back, and yeah, it was all quite a lot of hype around it, um, which was nice because it was it was almost my dream to play for Arsenal, play at Highbury, walk out under the lights on a Tuesday.
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All right, you wouldn't have had Rotherham down as your first game, but it didn't matter.
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Uh and what a debut, it was like it makes me just like tingle now because it was like most amazing day.
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You could you just couldn't write.
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If it was if it was a film, you would have said it was too corny, like that's too scripted.
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But I ended up uh I ended up having a really good game.
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Uh, we were 1-0 up, played extremely well in the game, conceded really late on.
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Uh, Darren Byfield scored, went to extra time, uh, ended up going to pens, uh, saved a pen.
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I think it might have saved the first or second pen.
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And then it went back round and I had to take a pen.
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I scored a pen and then we won the game.
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So to make my debut at Arsenal, uh and score.
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Score and the goalie.
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Score and save a penalty on my debut.
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So what was better scoring or saving a penalty?
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Do you know what?
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That's a that's a great question.
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Do you know what?
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Uh it would be really hard to say.
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I just never ever thought in a million years I'd be taking a penalty for Arsenal.
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So I think it was more of an element of surprise.
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Uh, I actually felt less pressure taking it than I did having to save one because I was expected to save him, but taking one actually the expectations were probably lowered.
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Uh, but I felt extremely confident in taking one, scored.
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Uh, and then we ended up getting to the semi-finals that year of the of the League Cup.
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I played in every round.
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Uh, we lost to Borough over two legs.
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Um yeah, and then sort of that sort of first team journey come to an end in terms of playing.
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But but I was involved for the whole season of the Invincibles, and you know, just even looking back at that, it's not until really when your career comes to an end that you sort of you take stock of things and you go, wow, I didn't actually realise what was going on in my life at the time.
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Soul Campbell, Carnu, Burkamp, Henri, yeah, right, Ashley Cole, going like, wow.
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But that was just the norm.
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So it was kind of not a shame I didn't embrace it because I think I did, but you just think that journey is gonna go forever, uh, naively, and when that gets cut short, it's it's quite a hard, yeah, quite a hard pill to swallow.
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But but listen, I loved it there.
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I love the club to pieces, uh, got some unbelievable memories there, and still got loads of friends uh from you know from my times at Arsenal when I'm you know in the youth team all the way through to the first team.
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So yeah, very special time of my life uh my football career when I look back on there.
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I've got a couple questions.
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First of all, I've noticed every goalkeeper we've had in was an out-on-pitch player.
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Yeah, me and you.
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Because you were an out-on-pitch player as well.
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Yeah, I was a striker, mate.
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Yeah, terrible one, but I was a striker.
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Yeah, same as me, right?
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I think that's gonna happen more and more.
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Yeah, so what made you go into goalkeeping?
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What why why that?
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It was by default, really, because because we lived in a pub, my parents didn't really want me being in the pub during the school holidays, and it wasn't like we didn't fight I I had done like multi-sport camps before, I didn't really like it, I just wanted to play football.
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So, yeah, we saw this advertised basically.
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It was in Potter's Bikes, miles away, but it was residential as well, so it was good for me to be out of the pub, so not in the pub for five days, like five days during the half term.
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So, yeah, through default, really I went on it and yeah, done, yeah, obviously done well.
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So, yeah, so that's all that's where that started.
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And how did you feel before your debut?
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I noticed you used the word opportunity.
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I was excited, I was I was obviously nervous going into it, that goes without saying, but yeah, I was excited, but I didn't want to let I didn't want to let my family down really this which was a bit crazy really because I knew the sacrifices that they had made for me to get to that position, and that there was a lot of riding on that, and there was a lot of friends there watching it as well.
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So, but I I think I've always done better under pressure anyway, so yeah, it's crazy.
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I I changed my gloves again, just schoolboy error, really.
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So I was wearing a different pair of gloves, uh, and I got them out of the packet for the that for the game, and it was obviously chucking it down with rain tuesday.
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I remember in the warm up, I couldn't catch a thing, and the thing was just like flying through my gloves, and I was like, What have I done here?
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I didn't have any spare gloves, so I was like trying to rub it with a towel to try and get that like that that shine, that, that, that sheen off the glove.
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Uh, so I was going into the glove, I'm paranoid about the first shot.
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Um, and I think someone had hit one and it skidded on the ground right in front of me, and I held it and I was like, right, that'll settle me down a little bit.
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But yeah, I've never done that again.
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Uh unless I've always told myself you can't just get about the rapper, you have to break a will a little bit.
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Yeah, unless it's summer.
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Unless it's summer, unless it's humming a beautiful, yeah.
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That's very true.
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Yeah.
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You you obviously had an unbelievable youth team, and you mentioned some of the players that you played with, like Jay Bothroyd, Steve Sibwell, being coached by Neil Banfield, who's obviously gone on to have a very, very successful coaching career, Steven Hidge, Arsenal, QPR, etc.
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How did those moments in that youth team prepare you to walk into that senior men's environment?
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Because I feel like the transition now between youth team football and first team football, there's a there's probably a bigger gulf now because you don't get that grounding in youth team football like you did back in the day.
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Do you know what?
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It's like we were spoken to a treated like adults, and we had to behave like adults, and there was no there was no attitude, there was no ego, there was no answering back, there was no, you know, even I see body language now with young people, like young players, and it drives me mad.
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I just I find it hard to watch.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:45.279
There was a real respect that we had for our coaches, it was too Don Howard been to a World Cup.
00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.639
It's like I could not respect this man and what he says.
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.879
Uh so I think that's changed a lot, and it saddens me a little bit.
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.159
Maybe power's been taken away from coaches, possibly.
00:16:56.319 --> 00:16:58.639
Maybe the attitude of players has changed.
00:16:58.959 --> 00:17:09.440
I think there's a probably a bit of both, but but yeah, I think we were very respectful at my age group, and we listened, we were like sponges because we were we didn't think we knew the answers.
00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:15.759
We knew we were still trying to find them, and who you know, why would you not listen to sort of the best coaches in the country?
00:17:15.840 --> 00:17:17.200
It'd be crazy not to.
00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:22.799
So, yes, we had a great team, but we were coached properly, and but more important, I think we were managed properly.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.759
Uh, because we listen, we had some characters and that changed on them.
00:17:25.840 --> 00:17:30.960
Um you being one of them, me being one of them, that you would have to manage properly, you know.
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:39.120
We you know, even younger lads like David Bentley, character, Jermaine Pennant had a character, you know, could be a bit aloof at times, but sometimes might have had to be reined in.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:44.960
But but coaches were able to do that, and I think by giving them that power, I think that was really important.
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.480
And without them having that, we probably wouldn't have had the success we did.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:50.160
Because you do, I think you do need that.
00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:58.400
It's important to have that discipline uh and almost know where that where the line is, uh, which we did in our youth team, but but yeah, what youth team?
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.600
I think you've only got to go through it by name and find out who they've played for England Caps, Champions League games, yeah.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:04.400
It's incredible.
00:18:04.560 --> 00:18:07.600
See, I think I think the grounding that you get as a YTS is really important.
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:13.519
So like even when I was at Wickham, I used to clean Matty Ingram's boots and Martin's boots, so like goalie coach, the goalies.
00:18:14.320 --> 00:18:17.600
Do you think players now are losing out on that education?
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:20.400
Because that's something that they don't, I think I don't think they have to do that anymore.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.680
Yeah, no, they don't.
00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:24.960
Uh yeah, I don't know why that is.
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.000
I don't know why that is.
00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:29.040
I j I I think it is a good ground enough, it keeps them humble.
00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:32.720
I think it's I I didn't see it as a chore though.
00:18:32.800 --> 00:18:33.360
It's crazy.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.000
Like I actually You said the word privilege, it's a privilege, right?
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.360
You said it's a privilege to keep it.
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:57.120
I did, I well I thought it was, I generally did, because like, but it was like it was it was the banner we had when we were all doing it, like it's freezing, like it's chucking it down with rain, you're trying not to get their boots wet, you're like hovered over the boots, and no water gets in it, like you're hanging it up, you've got hair dryers out, it's because you just don't want to disappoint the first team.
00:18:57.280 --> 00:19:04.000
Uh, and then at Christmas, you know, you get an envelope with a hundred quid in it, or in Dave's case, 250 quid.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:12.080
Well, all the other lads were like they were gutted because I had a big fat one of though at the end of the day, and all the others like got away with like 50 pounds, 100 pounds.
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:20.560
So, but it wasn't even it wasn't even a bat of the money, it was just the whole, like, like I'm I'm not, I'm actually this ain't a chore for me, I'm quite enjoying this.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.519
Uh, and it was the and it and it was a satisfaction you got at the end of it.
00:19:23.840 --> 00:19:29.680
That sounds crazy, but if like if you'd done well at the weekend, you felt a small part you'd played in that, uh small as that might be.
00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:35.200
But um, but yeah, I think I think certain things have changed for the worse.
00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:41.360
I must say that in terms of the way these academy players uh maybe get too much.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:46.000
A lot of the stuff is brilliant in terms of like the psychology stuff behind it for young players.
00:19:46.080 --> 00:20:01.920
Uh, they've got someone to reach out to and sit down, whether that's a mentor or whoever that might be, sort of the education, probably better than what it was, you know, when when I was when I was coming through the strength and conditioning, the an you know, the uh the analytical side of the game, the data side of the game.
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.880
How important is that at that age?
00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:08.160
I I think there's yeah, I think that's a conversation to be had.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.400
I think there's so many different opinions.
00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:30.240
Uh, and how much time is actually spent doing things away from the training picks that or away from the gym, where actually I think probably gone too far uh in some respects now, and I think we've come away from what what what made young players great, and that's building character, building personality, building resilience.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.440
Uh and and I and I think young players have started to lose that.
00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:35.920
That's the word I was looking for, resilience, building resilience.
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.320
The resilience building is one of the key traits that you need to be a pro, right?
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:41.040
Resilience.
00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:59.519
And even more so, so yeah, resilience is important for any player, but for a goalkeeper, I think it's so important because when you face adversity and you struggle to find form, or you you know how do you deal with failure, how do you deal with disappointment?
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:07.200
I think if you're not resilient, you're not strong, you you will never ever get to the get to the next bit or get to the top.
00:21:07.280 --> 00:21:10.080
I think it's so important as a goalkeeper to have that as a quality.
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.680
So you said earlier that one of your key strengths was your mindset.
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:13.920
Yeah.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.040
How did you build your mindset and what does mindset mean?
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.040
So mindset for me was simple.
00:21:19.120 --> 00:21:20.800
I just outwork everyone else.
00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:23.600
But that would go back to the running in pre-season.
00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:26.080
Like goalies at the back, I don't believe in that.
00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:28.240
Why can't the goalies be up near the front?
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.120
Like that's what I'm trying to explain to my son now.
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:37.200
But but it there's a bit of a stigma and a bit of a stereotype that goalies shouldn't be shouldn't be anywhere near the front.
00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:43.120
Well, I think they should be, and I also think that with all the speed stuff and the power stuff, because that's what we're based on.
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.160
We're based on speed and power.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.040
So why are goalies not up the top where they should be?
00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:53.759
Um, but for me, the running pre-season was a mindset thing, it was a psych, yeah, it was a psychological thing because it was hard.
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.759
So I think you're being tested, not not so much at uh at where you're coming, but are you digging in?
00:21:59.840 --> 00:22:01.200
Like, do you want to get to the top?
00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:03.040
Do you want to finish in the top three?
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:07.360
Uh and when when things get tough sometimes, I think you work a lot of people out.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:08.880
And that's what I've done as a coach.
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:20.320
I would always make the goalkeepers run, not make the goalies run, but I would put sessions on that would involve something that would be take them to another place mentally, and I would look to see how they would deal with it.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:30.560
And I think that set the tone for me a little bit to say, not sure, looks great in a goal, but has he got that next next bit, which is we which which we all know is gonna be key.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.320
So there were always little tests I put in.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:33.519
Then I'd say, What are we running for?
00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:34.160
Why are we running?
00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:38.720
And and I would say, Well, you're running, you're I wanna I wanna see, I wanna see what you got.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:40.480
I really like, I really like that.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:46.240
I think you have to show that mentality, you've got to be a little bit different, and it's test is you're testing someone, aren't you?
00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:49.840
You're testing what their character's like, yeah, you're testing their expectations where you're going, right?
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.160
You're gonna do a run, and how how do you react to that?
00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:53.360
Does your head go down?
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:55.040
That you're like, oh, I can't be bothered to do this.
00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:57.280
Pull out, make it rigid, said that before.
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:57.680
Yeah.
00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:00.000
Do you go, well, I'm a goalie, I don't need to run.
00:23:00.080 --> 00:23:00.320
Yeah.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.400
Even at park run, if 11-year-old's in front of me, I'm not, I'm just gonna take you down.
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.200
Or me before me before park run.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.759
I think it it is all a test.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:11.120
I think everything crosses over.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:13.120
You've got to see how you react under pressure.
00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:15.040
How do you react when the chips are down?
00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:19.120
Because if you can't deal with that, how are you gonna deal with making a mistake?
00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:26.720
If you struggle to deal with you got to go for a run and you've got to do a 12-minute run, for example, how are you gonna deal and you struggle with that and you're like, oh, I don't want to do that?
00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:28.400
How are you gonna deal with making a mistake?
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.600
How are you gonna deal with playing in front of 40,000 people?
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:32.800
How are you gonna deal with it?
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.600
I I think it makes a massive difference, and people don't see that.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:44.480
But the other thing is, just to add to that, so the most enjoyable thing for me was coming off the training pitch feeling like I had trained.
00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:51.360
I hated coming off the pitch thinking lost a day there or I've lost a session, like I could have done more there.
00:23:51.600 --> 00:23:59.680
So I would love to just I see the stitches and the cramps and like the sweating and you know, just feeling shattered.
00:23:59.840 --> 00:24:04.320
Like that was my way of saying I've enjoyed that, I've I deserve that.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.480
I you know, I've I've worked hard, now I'm gonna start reaping the rewards.
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:14.720
If I fall short in training, I always felt as I sort of cheated myself a little bit, and that would include the running.
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:19.360
If I go flat out and I don't win it, then I've I've done my very best.
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.200
I'm picking up on the fact that you have an unbelievable amount of grit.
00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:30.640
So, like, grit is that hardiness, that determination, that resilience to push through pain, to push through adversity.
00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:38.320
And I think from all the goalkeepers that we've interviewed or worked with, a lot of goalkeepers have unbelievable grit because of the nature of the position.
00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:48.240
But I I also think that that comes from somewhere in your past, from your childhood, from your upbringing, from your from your YTS, your education as a goalkeeper and as a human being.
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.320
So, where does your grit come from and why are you the way that you are?
00:24:52.560 --> 00:24:56.800
Yeah, I think I would probably be probably from my parents, I suppose.
00:24:57.120 --> 00:25:02.160
Uh I wouldn't say we were on the floor growing up, but it was like weren't easy.
00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:09.840
Uh but I just think that was something my dad had installed for me so early that it was just like my dad never let me win at nothing.
00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:11.920
Like, nothing.
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.840
Game of cards, pull, darts, a run.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:21.680
And I'll never forget the first day I've been my dad at a run, and my dad was like, You're ready.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:22.800
I'm you ready.
00:25:23.040 --> 00:25:28.480
You're ready because I can see that you you've got to the point now where you know what it's all about.
00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:56.720
Uh and I'm the same with my kids, and I think that's so important.
00:25:56.800 --> 00:25:58.800
I don't believe in my daughter.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:09.200
Yeah, my daughter went uh golf, she's 18, so she went uh to Put Shack yesterday in London with with her work, and uh she sent me a message, she said everyone at work is like, can't believe how competitive I am.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:14.160
And I was like, You're playing to win, and that's just end of.
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:19.200
So you can still be friends with people, but ultimately it's it's all about the winning, in my opinion.
00:26:19.280 --> 00:26:22.800
Uh, and that's something I've always installed to to my children.
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:35.120
But but sometimes you have to dig deep, nothing's easy, nothing, especially winning, because there's always competition, and when you think you're there, that's when you that's when you start to decline.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:37.360
I'm literally just going, yeah, yeah.
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:38.800
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:45.200
Same as my little girl, she's four years old, and uh she's fuming if I don't let her win at little games.
00:26:45.280 --> 00:26:51.360
I'm like, what you'll win when you deserve to win, but they'll pass that on, which is what you want.
00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:51.920
Yeah.
00:26:52.080 --> 00:27:00.800
Yeah, becoming second is like I've got a football academy, and when I first when I first started it, everyone got medals, and I was like, Well, what am I doing?
00:27:01.360 --> 00:27:07.360
Like, because it wasn't an elite academy, it was like an academy for all, so it was everyone was included.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:14.960
It didn't matter who you played Sunday League, whether you played in uh uh JPL, it didn't matter, it was for kids that just wanted to come and play football.
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:35.440
And my thinking behind it was these kids have never got a medal, so I want them to feel a bit special, which was great for them kids, but it completely diluted the fact that the kids that were brilliant are now sort of dragging them down because now everyone's got a medal, so there's actually no substance of winning the medal anymore.
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:54.160
So I took that away and it was just like the very best got medals, but everyone got a certificate of you know for attending, so there was there was a bit of balance in that, but but uh yeah, listen, it's I think that's you know, I think that's something that personally me and my family life and have my kids, I would I I would never change that.
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:58.800
I I I agree because only one person can be the number one, right?
00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:05.600
You see sports days and there's no winner, everyone gets a medal, and I'm like it actually doesn't set you up for life.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.000
Can I ask you a question then?
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.280
Of course, just uh from yeah, from my point of view.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:18.240
So, what do you think when when we hear goalkeepers union, how do you feel about the goalkeepers union?
00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:24.080
So if you're at a football club, so we used to we used to have it a lot when I was at Arsenal, oh there's a goalie union.
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:34.320
They used to think it was like uh a bit of a family, but but how did you feel when you're playing or you've been involved with a a a group of goalkeepers?
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:35.280
What was it like for you?
00:28:35.360 --> 00:28:38.000
What what what was your feelings on the other goalkeepers?
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.120
Well, I wanted to win, I wanted to be number one.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.600
Obviously, you're there to support, but you're you're there for you.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.960
I think you're there for you, you're there for yourself.
00:28:49.280 --> 00:28:54.000
Obviously, I'm there to support, and my nature is to help people and and bring them up.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:58.240
So, like you said, did you ever say good luck to the goalie that was playing?
00:28:58.560 --> 00:28:59.120
Nah.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:04.960
I I remember doing a like I was at Wickham um and I remember competing with the other goalkeepers.
00:29:05.040 --> 00:29:07.360
We used to do this running drill where you've got to run around the pitch.
00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:12.320
And there were there was a lad who used to struggle with the running, and I thought, you know what, fuck this.
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.960
I'm not gonna run next to him, I'm gonna just keep lapping him.
00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:17.040
Yeah, and I think you have to have that mindset.
00:29:17.120 --> 00:29:20.240
I know it's horrible, and people listen to this video, that's horrible, but I agree.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:25.520
I think when someone's down in the football world and you're competing with them, you've got to put your foot on their throat.
00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:25.920
Yeah.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.680
Because it's I know it's horrible.
00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:29.120
It's a mess weapon, isn't it?
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.400
Yeah, but it's exclusive there.
00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:40.960
But I say that from a point of ruthlessness because if you become too nice or you try and support people, eventually that person will overtake you.
00:29:41.120 --> 00:29:41.440
Yeah.
00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:45.840
And you're all competing for a very finite number of contracts or positions.
00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:54.560
I think naturally it's tough because if a goalie has a bad game, because you've got a connection, it's hard because you're going, you're coming in the game and you're going, unlucky, mate.
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:59.040
But really, you're not thinking unlucky, you're thinking a buzzing, because I'm gonna get a chance now.
00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:02.880
Because I've when you're a goalkeeper, you have to be so selfish.
00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:12.000
And I'm not saying you've got to be horrible about it, like around a place in the change of room and and and and sort of backdoor him and say things about him when he's not around and all that.
00:30:12.080 --> 00:30:12.800
I don't believe in that.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.280
I I think that's like Schneider, I don't like that.
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:23.760
But but certainly like when you're me and you, us three are competing to play at the weekend, it's like it's no holds barred.
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:30.080
Like when I get on that training pitch and we're doing shooting drills or finishing drills or whatever we're doing, I'm gonna try and bury you.
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.320
And when I go goal, I'm gonna try and shine.
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:34.240
That's just that's just the way it's gotta be.
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:51.760
But I've been involved at some clubs where it's all very, very nicey nicey, and that tells me that the one that's actually not playing is probably quite comfortable or quite happy, and I've never quite got that, which is yeah, yeah, which is something that's I just thought I'd ask you to get your opinion on that because it depends on your nature.
00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:59.120
I'm very competitive, and I speak to players when I speak to players and they go, Oh, I lost and I'm I'm down, I'm like, good.
00:31:00.320 --> 00:31:03.600
Like I want I want to win that, I want to win, I want to be really good.
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:05.120
I'll do the best that I can possibly do.
00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:08.800
It doesn't matter if it's a park run on a Saturday, I'll do the best that I can possibly do.
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.800
If I'm playing a game, I want to win.
00:31:11.040 --> 00:31:16.400
Yeah, head tennis, all like anything like that, it would just be like, yeah, goalie wars.
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:24.480
Like I just think because you are because you're it's such a like a like it's just a it's a mad space to be in as a goalie.
00:31:24.800 --> 00:31:26.720
It's like so different.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:34.240
It's just like it, it's just you, it feels like you against the world at times, even you against your own teammates, because it's just like you.
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:46.480
And you know, you'll get the blame for things when you when you when you make errors, you'll get the plaudits occasionally when you when you when you deserve it, but it's a really isolated position like on the pitch and in the game in general.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:51.120
When you train on your own, you're training at the corner of the training pitch, you know, over out of the way.
00:31:51.280 --> 00:32:01.360
Uh, and and and sometimes when you feel that isolated, sometimes you do feel like you've got a connection with a goal is because you it's almost like you're on your own, but you are together, so it's just trying to find that balance, I think.
00:32:01.520 --> 00:32:03.520
Yeah, it's not it's not easy.
00:32:03.840 --> 00:32:06.000
My nature is to support and I want to help people.
00:32:06.080 --> 00:32:07.680
Yeah, that's what I want to do.
00:32:07.760 --> 00:32:15.760
I'll always try and improve people, but then for me, it's like right, I want to improve you, but that's gonna improve it's a selfish thing, that's gonna improve me, that's gonna make me better.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:27.920
I always look at how can I improve, how can I be better, how can, but then if I help people, as I said, in my help, because they can not too much, no, no, if they improve too much and then puts you in a bad position.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.400
It's tough, it's it's funny it's trying to find that balance.
00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:34.080
It is a balance, it is a balance, but I'm always like, right, how can this help me?
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.120
Yeah, in a way, but I obviously want to help others as well.
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:41.680
So I want to help others, but if you're not gonna be able to do it, you start telling them to use the wrong technique, so he starts throwing them in and then you get in.
00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:42.960
That's not a bad way to do it.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.080
I I think I think it's hard.
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:58.080
I do think it's hard to manage that union because you are maybe two or three guys in a group of people and you're isolated and your job is completely different to everyone else, but at the same time, you've got a responsibility to yourself.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.960
You you know from experience how how cutthroat football is.
00:33:01.040 --> 00:33:04.320
Yeah, the person who's playing has a future at the club.
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:06.880
The two that aren't, their futures are on the line.
00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:14.560
And I think you think about how hard you have to work to become a pro, and then you get there, and then you've got to compete again to get the starting position.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.760
I just I just don't think you can you can help too much.
00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:19.200
I think you have to be a bit selfish.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.560
What about what about this?
00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:27.440
Yeah, I won't say what club, but they they they they put me with the other goalie, like when we used to go wait two away trips.
00:33:27.520 --> 00:33:30.880
So I'd room with him, and I'd be like, I don't room with him.
00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:34.080
Like I'll he's in the team, like I've got the ham.
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:47.680
Like, and then all of a sudden you actually naturally start to like become closer, and you're almost trying to hold yourself back from not letting that happen because you just you want to have a professional relationship, but what happens is you end up becoming quite good friends.
00:33:47.840 --> 00:34:03.600
So in the end, I just said, Look, I don't want to room with him, not because I don't like him, but because I want to try and keep that that that barrier, which is people might think that's probably wrong, but I just didn't think that was beneficial for me by by becoming that close with the other goalie.
00:34:03.840 --> 00:34:09.039
So it's like, yeah, so that that never happened after, and nor did it moving forward at any other club.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.880
But I think some managers get that because some managers haven't even like questioned that.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:14.240
It was like, yeah, we would do that anyway.
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:24.000
So I think there's any I know and I think the other reason I must add, yeah, by putting you both together, if I get sick overnight, and I I do get sick because we're in the same room, you've got no goalie for the next day.
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:24.960
I never thought so.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.519
That's that that's why I never understood it anyway.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.280
Um, but but yeah, that's that that's happened strangely enough, which I felt.
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.519
Something that's popped up in my head, you know.
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:37.039
So Scott Shearer, Jamie Young, like two of my really good friends.
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:38.079
Yeah, I know both of them.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:41.440
You know both of them as Cheers and Youngie, and they was in the same room.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:43.440
Cheers was a nutter, yeah.
00:34:44.240 --> 00:34:45.920
You should see him now, he's completely changed.
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:47.039
He has completely changed.
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:49.199
That's what that's what the financial world does to you, right?
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:53.599
Yeah, him and Youngie room together at Wickham.
00:34:54.240 --> 00:35:00.079
Younggy talked about this on a podcast recently, but I I'm not gonna swear too much, and I don't want to.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:06.079
So Shears went for a toilet, number two, yeah, and then didn't flush it, yeah, and just left it.
00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:11.440
Yeah, and then Youngie went, I can't let him get one over me.
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:14.320
So then he did a number two, but didn't flush it.
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:20.480
And then the whole weekend there was shit on shit on shit and shit, and then I was like, no one's gonna break.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.519
This is now who's gonna flush the toilet?
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:25.039
Whoever flushes the toilet loses.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:29.360
They went away for a photo.
00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:33.600
Must have been hanging around.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.400
Yeah, that is this is the bad for the cleaner that I had to clean it up.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.600
You got a question for you, Tate.
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:40.880
Would you flush it?
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:41.600
No.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:44.800
I'd have flushed it the first time.
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.320
I'd have flushed it the first time because it's probably a bad game, it's probably not a good game to play.
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:55.200
Especially if you're two really stubborn people, it's just not gonna end well for anyone.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.200
Maybe we should play it the game next time we go away.
00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:57.519
Absolutely.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:35:59.440
I can think of other games to play.
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.760
Sorry, we take we've gone downhill quickly.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.440
But that's the competitive nature, right?
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.640
So you said the two goal kick, they're really competitive with each other and it's yeah, young kicking kids.
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:15.600
Yeah, good goalie youngie, super professional in everything he'd done.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:25.360
Just again, great to have around the place, always like always, always had a smile on his face, always love training, love goalkeeping, like fascinated with it, like brilliant.
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.600
But it was uh yeah, no, it was good to work with youngie.
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:38.720
On the competitive side of things, then obviously breaking into the Arsenal first team, you're around Arson Wenger, you're around some top players, the Dennis Burkamps of the world, etc.
00:36:39.120 --> 00:36:46.559
What was it like walking into that environment, having that competitive nature that you've got, but then taking that to another level to meet those demands?
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.000
Yeah, it was tough.
00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:56.480
And I the reason it was tough, because I was Jens, I think was I think it was German number one at the time, or got himself in front of Kahn.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.280
So I saw I was like Jens is understanding like number two.
00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:07.920
And it's like you're trying to convince convince yourself that you can you can get there and you'll get a chance.
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:12.559
But I was never gonna get in for ability because I wasn't I wasn't as good as Jens.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.160
That's the fact.
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:25.920
And it and he was a grafter, he was a super professional, he was militant, the way he trained, the way he ate, the way he lived, it was like perfect example on how you should be as a pro.
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:39.440
So it sort of gets to the point where I'm like, I'm only gonna get in through injury here, or you know, or Jens being an upcase of doing something stupid, which could have happened at any moment, by the way, with him.
00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:59.360
And he ended up never ever, he he he didn't miss a minute in that Premier League season, played every single minute, so I never quite got in, but I was almost resigned to the fact, which almost contradicts myself in what I was saying, but it's like it was so difficult for me to sit there behind the end and go, I'm gonna get in here, because it's just not good enough.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:03.120
Uh, but I think that was that was a matter of fact, that wasn't like my opinion.
00:38:03.200 --> 00:38:05.200
I think that was that was that was the truth.
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:06.800
So that that was tough.
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:17.039
Uh that was tough, and then you start signing other keepers like Almunia come in, and and then you're starting to think to yourself, well, maybe it's time to maybe move on.
00:38:17.120 --> 00:38:23.600
But the expectations when you're in a changing room like that is like you can't have an off day.
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:25.600
Like I remember doing finishing.
00:38:25.680 --> 00:38:32.400
So at the end of at the end of most training sessions, definitely on a Friday, they would basically rig the edge of the box.
00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:34.720
So it would just be like hitting dead balls.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:41.200
So you'd have like, and I remember going in the day before the game, I was like, that's the worst thing for like a goalie.
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:45.120
Because it was just like, well, it was for me, because I just got buried every Friday.
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:55.680
So you'd have like Thierry just like slinging one in the sanction, then Perez would just roll one in the bottom corner, Dennis Burkamp would like give you the eyes, I'd whip one in the other corner, and do a smash one in the top corner.
00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:01.200
You'd be like, This is like this is the last thing I want to do on a Friday, is get buried by everyone.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:13.600
But that was the level, like that that's that's that's why you're there, and you need to get after it, you need to start making saves because if you don't, you'll soon be caught up and be overtaken.
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:19.200
So, yeah, the the the levels and the expectations were were very, very high.
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:23.280
But listen, that's it's Arsenal Football Club, you can't expect nothing less.
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:28.320
So you said about the change room and like the levels.
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.880
So, what was it like in the change room?
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.960
What was the changing room like behind the scenes?
00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:33.760
Do you know what?
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:35.120
It was pretty chilled, really.
00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:40.880
Uh, I've got to say, I mean, there were some big characters in there, like Patrick, Sol, Dennis, Thierry.
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:44.320
Uh yeah, I mean it was that was that was loads.
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:50.320
Some different to others, there was quieter ones, Carnu was quiet, reserved, Sylvan reserved, Robert reserved.
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:54.720
But uh Coley, Ray Parla characters, Michael Keon, Jens.
00:39:55.120 --> 00:40:01.519
It was just like, but I think because we all had the same goal, um, the mission was the same.
00:40:01.600 --> 00:40:05.440
It was to win the league, which then became not losing a game.
00:40:05.600 --> 00:40:09.760
And I think because we all bought into that and we all believed in it, which was the main thing.
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:11.200
Like, it was actually believable.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:14.160
We actually look around and go, yeah, we'll do this.
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.840
Yeah, no one's beating us.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.000
It was like the maddest feeling ever.
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:22.240
Like going to games, going to Old Trafford, knowing that you are not gonna lose.
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:30.240
Like, I'm sitting on the bus, I'm not playing, I'm thinking I'd be so scared, like, because of the record and because of going to Old Trafford.
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:36.160
But they were like playing cards, playing, oh no, chilling, laughing, tunes on, playing one touch, in the change of them.
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.440
It was like it was just so chilled, but I just think that was the belief.
00:40:39.600 --> 00:40:41.840
I think that's what worked, the dynamics of that change of them.
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:46.400
Like they all complemented each other with so many different characters in there, but I think that's what made it work.
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:48.480
Did it ever get talked about not losing a game?
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:52.160
You said about you said about you went into it about not losing a game.
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:56.160
Did the mentality come about not losing, or was it about winning?
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.960
I think it became, yeah, it was always winning.
00:40:59.120 --> 00:40:59.920
It was always that.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:06.480
But I think with with a few games to go, obviously the conversations then started getting taken seriously.
00:41:06.640 --> 00:41:12.480
Obviously, the media, people in and outside the building sort of knew that that was achievable.
00:41:12.640 --> 00:41:14.000
It was going to be tough, but it was achievable.
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.680
And I think when it was good because we had something else to play for.
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:21.440
So once we had won the title, it was like, right now we've got another, we've got another target.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:22.960
So it kept everyone on their toes.
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:28.800
There was no normally, if you win a title, I've been there before, you win a league and it's just like feet up, it's the end of the season.
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:36.400
I'll win a title, not if you just get because if you're in a playoffs or you let's say you're you're second, but you're guaranteed promotion, you still want to win the league.
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:49.120
But there's always something, but but yeah, even just having that where we knew there was another goal and not and something that in my opinion will not be done, in my opinion, in this country in the Premier League, while I'm here.
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.680
I just I I just don't see that being done.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.720
Because it's not until you look at teams like Liverpool.
00:41:54.800 --> 00:42:00.160
When I was first team coach at Watford, um, I was a goalkeeping coach when uh we played Liverpool.
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:02.079
Liverpool hadn't lost the game.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.000
I think it must have been about 20 games in, it couldn't have been far off that.
00:42:06.160 --> 00:42:09.920
And uh we beat them 3-0 at Vic Road, and that was it, it was over.
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:16.000
Obviously, I was buzzing, but and then after that, I think they went on to lose probably five or six games.
00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:41.200
So yeah, it just goes to show like what an achievement that was, like from the group, but how you could continue to to you know to keep that mentality because naturally you you you come off or you'll have a dip, or but you weren't allowed to earn that team, and there was no respite, there was no sort of standard dropping, it was just like it was consistent, which is obviously why they're the greatest in the Premier League.
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:42.800
What a really selfish question.
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.519
No, it isn't selfish because I've always fought this.
00:42:45.600 --> 00:42:55.840
So you obviously had shots against Tier Henry, and when you when he went through, you knew what he was gonna do.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.200
You knew what he was gonna do, he's gonna cut in and he's gonna bend it.
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:01.680
But if you go early, you'll just it'll just reverse it.
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.079
How how did you deal with that?
00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:07.120
Because every goalkeeper, I remember discussions going, well, you know he's gonna go.
00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:08.960
How how do you deal with that in training?
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.000
Was it you just couldn't save it?
00:43:12.160 --> 00:43:15.760
No, I think you've just got uh in the end, you're trying everything.
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:20.880
So, like you're trying to go early, you're trying to like drop the shoulder, you're you're trying to make him think.
00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:31.600
You're trying to stay up as long as you can, and you know, there's loads of things you're you know, you're almost playing my games of yourself where you know what you should be doing, like just stop as long as you can and wait.
00:43:31.680 --> 00:43:39.519
Maybe if he's opening his foot up, which he would normally do, you can maybe then start to lean slightly to give yourself the best opportunity to save it.
00:43:39.600 --> 00:44:01.600
But he'd play it with that much pace and that much precision, it was actually like unless you would go seconds early and then he'd just go round you or he'd just reverse it, it was like it was it was heartbreaking at times because we used to do one-on-ones, they used to do a drill from like the halfway line, so it would be she'd have X amount of seconds to go and score a goal, and like like Thierry was just like a joke.
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:20.160
Like, there was other players in that team to be fair that were exact as capable, but but he would just go through, and if he runs down the middle of the goal, he could go either way, it's a step over shift, roll it, or he'd it'd step over, chop, sit you down, roll it, just it was like it was you didn't have a lot of chance to be fair.
00:44:20.240 --> 00:44:25.519
But I I don't think from uh from a coach's point of view we're expected to do much anyway.
00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:27.039
He was obviously elite, right?
00:44:27.120 --> 00:44:42.800
I know I know this is a goalkeeping podcast, but you can I think you can learn a lot from elite people, and he's I mean, I know Alan Shearer has got the the goal scoring record, but I think he's arguably not even arguably, I think he's the greatest Premier League striker of all time at this moment, in my opinion.
00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:48.800
Yeah, I've always liked I think he was a bit like like the Avatar or Avatar.
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:57.840
It was just like the way he was built, like he could run faster than everyone, he could jump higher than everyone, he could hit the ball harder than everyone.
00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:01.039
His attitude, his mindset was as good as anyone's.
00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:03.039
So he had all of the tools.
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:13.200
Okay, at times he was a bit untidy, for example, with his link up initially, anyway, uh, and probably tactically wasn't as intelligent as, say, Dennis.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:23.120
But he was just like it was just it was just a maverick, it was just like he Do he could score goals from anywhere at any time within like an instant.
00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:28.400
So yeah, I mean he was just uh incredible to work with, just in in the flesh.
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.120
But yeah, yeah, I mean that's the debate, isn't it?
00:45:31.200 --> 00:45:32.720
Is he is he the greatest all time?
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:33.920
It's up for debate.
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:34.960
He's certainly up there.
00:45:35.120 --> 00:45:40.160
Dennis Burkamp, I think Thierry Already's gone on record to say that Dennis Burkamp's you know the best he's played with, I think.
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:41.039
Sure, he said that.
00:45:41.120 --> 00:45:43.360
And and he's played with Lionel Messi and people like that.
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:52.160
But but I think that combination that you know them them two together, sort of Dennis dropping in and Thierry sort of flicks around the corner, one, twos.
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.480
It was like no one knew what they were gonna do next.
00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:55.920
But what made them special?
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:59.920
Because I think elite people are special in the way they think, in the way they see the world.
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:05.920
What made the likes of Ray Parla, Keon, Jens, uh, Thierry, Dennis.
00:46:06.240 --> 00:46:10.160
Yeah, I think it was just the desire to be the best, just the the mentality.
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:11.840
I think that's what separated them.
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:13.920
I know everyone wants to win.
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:18.079
Like we all want to win, but do you really want to win?
00:46:18.160 --> 00:46:18.720
You know what I mean?
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:27.760
But they it's no good being uh, you know, being the biggest sort of wanting to win in the room, but if you ain't got the ability to go with it, then you ain't you're never gonna get there.
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:46.000
So I think it's having all the tools as a player, having that mindset, but also being surrounded by great people, great players, because without without you, you we we wouldn't have done it with there's it's almost like if you take something away, it probably wouldn't have flowed the way it did, because everyone played their own little part.
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:52.480
You know, if you take that one part away, it probably is not gonna move as swiftly or as nicely is it as it was.
00:46:52.640 --> 00:46:55.840
So I think everyone had their role to play, but yeah, I think you're right.
00:46:56.160 --> 00:47:01.519
You know, the elite have got that that that spark, they've got that edge, and I think in that group, I think they all had that.
00:47:01.680 --> 00:47:12.559
So circling back to goalies then, because it's a goalie podcast, Jens again debatable, but arguably one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time, certainly achieved so much in his career.
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.079
What made him special?
00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:24.079
Like, did you have any interaction with him and see anything when you were working with him that made you believe, like, okay, like he's got something that I don't have or other goalies don't have?
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:31.760
Yeah, yeah, Jens was like his attitude to training, his commitment to keeping the ball out the net was just like unreal.
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:36.960
Like he never really, you never really see him put his feet up and go through the motions, never.
00:47:37.200 --> 00:47:38.800
And his mentality was the same.
00:47:39.200 --> 00:47:39.840
Didn't want to lose.
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:48.960
Like in the warm-up, if we used to do like races, it just like at the last final, but in the warm up, it was just like once we were sort of ready, we would just do something on a Friday.
00:47:49.120 --> 00:47:50.640
And even that he would hate losing.
00:47:50.720 --> 00:47:52.640
Uh, and he did because he wasn't the quickest.
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:59.680
Uh wasn't the greatest with his feet, but probably the best I've seen with taking crosses.
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:02.320
Like his starting position was so aggressive.
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:06.960
I'd be thinking, he's gonna get done here, he's gonna get he's gonna get like someone's gonna lob him.
00:48:07.120 --> 00:48:17.840
And people tried, but he would back himself, like he would just he was so confident or almost arrogant, really, that he like he felt as though he's not gonna get beaten from certain areas of the pitch.
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:29.920
Uh, but again, like character, personality, persona, like presence, he had all of that in abundance, which is yeah, which is probably uh which is why he is one of the greatest in the world or was one of the greatest in the world.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:33.760
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I've got a question for you.
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:18.400
So Carriger daddy's top 10 goalkeepers, and I've got it here.
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:24.559
Carriger daddy's top 10 goalkeepers the other day, and there's been a big debate, a mass debate.
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:26.720
Since when when are we going back?
00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:29.519
Are we going back my generation since I started?
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:31.840
Um, yeah, that's just what I wanted to ask you.
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:35.120
So he's put, because you've played again and David Steamon.
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:36.160
Shall I tell you what I put?
00:49:36.240 --> 00:49:37.280
Let's see if we've got the same.
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.760
Go on, so this isn't this is go on, who would you do?
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:44.480
So top ten, no particular order, or this is from yeah, all time Premier League goalkeepers.
00:49:44.640 --> 00:49:50.559
I'll tell you he's got you do yours, and then I want to show you his because you obviously played with these goalkeepers.
00:49:50.720 --> 00:49:52.880
Yeah, so yeah, like uh sorry, Dave Steaman.
00:49:53.120 --> 00:49:55.280
So this would be your all-time league.
00:49:55.600 --> 00:49:56.480
No particular order, though, yeah?
00:49:56.640 --> 00:49:57.360
Premier League, yeah?
00:49:57.519 --> 00:49:58.880
Yeah, you've got to do it from one to ten.
00:49:59.120 --> 00:50:00.160
What in order?
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:00.640
Yeah.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.000
Yeah, that's more challenging.
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:06.079
A whole podcast on this could be a good one.
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:08.160
Peter Schmichael, yeah, I agree.
00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:11.519
Let's make this clear that it's a generational thing as well.
00:50:11.680 --> 00:50:17.200
The game and the profile and expectations and responsibilities of a goalkeeper have changed like tenfold.
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:44.559
So, yes, Peter Schmichael would definitely not be the greatest in the world right about now, but uh you know, my my growing up, I would put him at one, uh I would have uh Dave Seaman at two, I'd have Vandersar at three, I'd have Edison, I'd have Alison, I'd have Donna Ruma, I'd have Martinez, how many is that?
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:46.480
Seven, I think.
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:55.440
I would have uh Courtois check I haven't got that.
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.320
That's not in order because I've just I've forget what I am.
00:50:58.880 --> 00:50:59.360
How many is that?
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:04.480
Courtois, check, Martinez, Mandasar, how many is that?
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:05.760
I think that's nine.
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:06.800
About twenty-five.
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.360
So I tell you his because there's been uh obviously a big debate about it recently.
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:21.519
So one Petacek, two, Schumacher, three, Allison, four, De Gea, five De Gea, Portois.
00:51:21.680 --> 00:51:22.160
That's one of them.
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:26.000
Six Van de Sar, seven, Edison, eight, Neville Southall.
00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:27.840
That's his youth team bias coming up here.
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:28.400
Yeah, a little bit.
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:30.079
I love Neville Southall though.
00:51:30.160 --> 00:51:30.800
I loved him.
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:35.120
Yeah, nine, David Seaman, yeah, ten, Pepe Rayner.
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:37.360
Pepe's a good shout.
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:39.440
I just don't think he's he's got yeah.
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:47.440
I know Donald Runa Donald Rumba's only been in it for five minutes, but if if we're saying Premier League goal is Martinez has won the World Cup, he's he's got to be in there.
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.559
Not just because of the World Cup, because he's a top-top goalie.
00:51:50.640 --> 00:51:54.000
He got I reckon he could play for anyone in the world.
00:51:54.720 --> 00:51:57.039
So yeah, I think he's got most of them right.
00:51:57.120 --> 00:52:01.600
The only ones I've you know Shay Gibbon's got to be sort of really unlucky to mess out there as well.
00:52:01.680 --> 00:52:03.600
But yeah, but listen, it's it or Pickford?
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.559
So I think Pickford as well Pickford, yeah.
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.120
Yeah, there's always saying no with Pickford, in there.
00:52:09.200 --> 00:52:09.840
That's just me.
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:15.039
Like I'm just I think he's brilliant, but there's some I've got my reservations about him.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.160
Yeah, no yens, no yens in there.
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:21.360
No, no, I don't I wouldn't have yens in that.
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:26.480
If there was top 15 yens update in it, yeah, going on, yeah.
00:52:26.720 --> 00:52:38.400
I wouldn't yeah, I wouldn't have yens in that as much as I love him, but uh I think there's probably better goalies in that in that, but yeah, yeah, the whole Pickford thing, so I think what he's done for England is incredible.
00:52:38.720 --> 00:52:51.440
Probably been the most reliable goalkeeper for England that that I can remember, and that's you know, that's with Dave Seaman and whoever else, David James, you go back, Paul Robinson, Joe Hart, Joe Hart, yeah.
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:54.000
I'd probably say he's probably been the most reliable.
00:52:54.160 --> 00:52:56.079
Uh and and the same for Evan.
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:59.039
He's you know, he's never injured, he always plays.
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:05.120
I love I I love his I love his makeup on the ball when he's got at his feet.
00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:09.600
I think he can be a bit erratic at times in the goal.
00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:12.079
So I I I've got a question on that then.
00:53:12.160 --> 00:53:24.000
So I've had this conversation with a few pros and we have this these conversations and debates about the personality profile of a goalkeeper, and I think there's like a bit of a yin and a yang to it.
00:53:24.160 --> 00:53:35.760
So you get those goalkeepers who are maybe a bit more involved, like uh an Aaron Ramsdale, a Jordan Pickford, a Dean Henderson, and then you get the the Van der Sars, the De Gea's, those super, super chilled out guys.
00:53:36.640 --> 00:53:36.800
Yeah.
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:37.440
Yeah.
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:44.400
What do you think in terms of profile makes up a top goalie?
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:54.559
Because you, for example, when I've watched you play at Barnet, I think you've got that kind of in the middle where you can get up there and and hammer people, but you've also got that ability to stay calm as well.
00:53:54.800 --> 00:54:00.880
So where if you're coaching someone, if you're you're mentoring someone, where are you trying to put them on that spectrum?
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:05.840
I look, I think everyone's personality is completely different, and I think you've got to play with your personality.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.840
So I get that Dave Seymour was the most laid-back guy in the world.
00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:15.519
You look at Courtois, you look at Czech, there's so many on the other end of the scale, but then you look at the other end.
00:54:15.600 --> 00:54:31.840
I just think the reason I don't believe you you should get too emotional or too alright, because I think it can put you off your stride, and I think that you can lose complete focus about, you know, actually get too carried away with what's going on in the game and forget about just being a goalkeeper.
00:54:32.160 --> 00:54:57.120
I've done it before, I've made a worldie save, gone out for a corner, I get too excited, I get too emotional, cross comes in, I missed a cross, balls in the back of the net because I feel like I've got too high at that moment and I should have just absorbed it, took it in, thought about it after the game and just deal with the next action rather than getting too hyped up with making a worldie because there's still loads there's still loads more football to be played.
00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:00.640
So just not yeah, just be careful you don't overdo it.
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:12.400
But yeah, I think you should show emotion, you should show personality because that's who you are, and I think that's what's going to separate, certainly what separated me from other goalkeepers because I played with personality, but it's just finding that fine line and that balance.
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:20.079
Yeah, I think I think it's a really, really hard balance to find as well because I think in goalkeeping we don't celebrate ourselves enough, but we also don't like celebrating saves.
00:55:20.240 --> 00:55:23.440
Yeah, I was in the middle of celebrating us the other day, I don't know if you saw it.
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:26.640
He he made a save, celebrated, and the cross was still coming in.
00:55:27.200 --> 00:55:29.120
Literally coming out to the side, it didn't go out.
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:32.079
Yeah, going on record to say I don't like that.
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:33.120
I really don't.
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:34.640
I don't know where that's come from.
00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:37.360
I think it's come from like when the Italians won the World Cup.
00:55:38.240 --> 00:55:38.640
I do.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:47.280
Remember, they were blocking things and you know they were high fiving and like fist pumping and chest pumping, and I'm like, I didn't quite get that.
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:53.760
Obviously, you it show for me it's I think it's look at me, I've just made a weldie.
00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.039
Like, look at like almost of the fans, like look at that.
00:55:57.200 --> 00:55:59.120
It's almost like a big pat on the back.
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:00.400
I don't like that.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.720
Like you're there to keep the ball out of the net.
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:09.600
Like, I get it, if you're a centre forward and you score, you celebrate, but the game's you know, the game's dead, and I think that's completely different.
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.240
People will say, well, why is that different to make it a great save?
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.680
I just I just I just think it is, I don't think you should be celebrating it.
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.440
That's just me personally.
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:25.920
I don't I don't like I don't mind I don't I don't mind the high five, but when people are like fist pumping and all the rest of it and go into the crowd and all that, I just I can't buy into that.
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.320
I just think it's I think it's slippery personally.
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:29.440
No, I I agree with you.
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:39.120
Like I think from an emotional control point of view, like I can remember a couple of times I've made saves, and you know those saves that you make where you have to try and hide your smile, yeah, and you're trying to stay locked in.
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:44.480
Yeah, you should enjoy it, and there's been moments I probably haven't enjoyed that I should have enjoyed more.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:48.800
But again, it's that it's that fine line, not to get too carried away.
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:50.720
Obviously, smile, enjoy it, you know.
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:54.320
And centre half comes over to you and goes, Right, save, son, whatever.
00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:55.600
That's nice, that'll do for me.
00:56:55.680 --> 00:56:57.840
You know, I'll get some recognition after the game.
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.360
Manager, by the way, lads, we won 2-0, but what a save.
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:02.320
That's nice.
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:03.519
That means more to me, you know.
00:57:03.600 --> 00:57:06.800
When you hear that from players or managers, that's what that's what you want to wear.
00:57:07.120 --> 00:57:11.920
So I've seen Pickford, so I have this debate with my partner.
00:57:13.120 --> 00:57:16.240
I live in Liverpool now and they're all Everton through and through.
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:19.200
And I did say, I think sometimes, oh, maybe it is for the camera.
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:21.840
I had this debate, I was like, maybe it is for the cameras.
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:26.559
And my partner was like, nah, nah, he's just like that all the time.
00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:33.840
So I I thought, you know, well, next game I'm gonna I'm gonna go watch, and I'm just gonna watch Pickford, and he's that animated when the balls come.
00:57:34.160 --> 00:57:34.480
It's constant.
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:35.680
I've seen him, I've seen him with Wember.
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:37.120
He's that animated all the time.
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:42.000
And I was thinking if you took that, if you do take that away from him, does it take away something from his game?
00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:43.440
Yeah, almost certainly.
00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:44.079
I think so.
00:57:44.240 --> 00:57:44.559
Yeah.
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:48.559
If he says to John and Pickford you can't talk for this whole game, he'd probably have a sinker.
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:55.280
Because I think that's what help helps him to stay, stay, stay in the game and stay focused and stay attached to everything.
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:56.720
But yeah, that's probably what it is.
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:58.160
I do love watching him.
00:57:58.240 --> 00:58:05.760
I mate, I I don't, I don't, I think I come from a different a different school of thought to you, in the sense that I don't mind when goalies are overly active.
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:11.760
Like I think Aaron Ramsdale came out and said like he has to be involved in the game in order to be focused.
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:16.000
And I feel like different goalies have different personalities, like Van der Sarr, super chilled.
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:18.160
Aaron Ramsdale, really involved, picked everyone.
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:21.200
I used to, but I used to do that by communicating and talking for the whole game.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:21.440
Yeah.
00:58:21.600 --> 00:58:23.680
So that would be my way of staying concentrated.
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:31.519
Sometimes I would I would it would get to the point where I would have to stop myself because I felt like I was commentating a little bit, and that's not a good thing.
00:58:31.680 --> 00:58:53.039
But selfishly, I would be constantly giving information to to my back four or back three or whatever it might be, uh, in terms of like getting tight and no turning and stopping crosses and squeezing and just like just but that would always keep me like on the ball, and it would just help me be a bit more proactive, waiting for the next thing to happen because I would almost be ready.
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:54.559
But it keeps you present, doesn't it?
00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:56.800
It's not getting inside your own head.
00:58:57.039 --> 00:59:01.200
So I talk to players about Japanese pointing and shouting.
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:02.720
You love this one, I love this one.
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:13.600
Yeah, so I've probably repeated myself many a times, but in Japan, what they do when the train comes, the the instructors and that they point and shout.
00:59:13.680 --> 00:59:16.400
And the whole point of that is there's less accidents.
00:59:16.640 --> 00:59:20.160
There's less accidents because they have to stay present, so they're pointing and shouting.
00:59:20.320 --> 00:59:23.440
I have to do it for me when I get changed in the gym, so I don't lose my phone.
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:24.960
I'm like, there's a phone, there's that.
00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:27.039
Don't lose my keys.
00:59:27.200 --> 00:59:28.240
But that's exactly what you're doing.
00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:30.640
You say, Did you do it too, did you do it too much?
00:59:30.720 --> 00:59:32.000
But it helped you stay present.
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:37.600
Is that it helped you stay present and not get inside your own head?
00:59:37.840 --> 01:00:00.079
Yeah, one of the first times I trained with the Arsenal first team, uh, it was like Tony Adams was playing, and I think it was just like uh I think that the first team we're playing against maybe like our 18th, like the must have we just must have thrown over like an 11 just to go and play against them, and I think I don't think Tony was in the team, so there was a few of the first team lads that would like the or the leftovers on the subs that would sort of make our team up.
01:00:00.160 --> 01:00:01.920
And obviously, I want to make an impression.
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:04.800
So I'm going like Tony, tight, tight, Tony, no turn.
01:00:05.120 --> 01:00:06.240
He told me I went, son.
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:08.320
He went, I'm captain of this football club.
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:09.120
He went, I know I'm doing.
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:10.720
I was like, I tell you.
01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:13.680
I'll never forget that.
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:16.480
But all right, did that stop you though?
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:18.240
So I think it did for about five minutes.
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:18.720
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:20.000
I was going Tony, Tony.
01:00:20.640 --> 01:00:21.600
But what are you supposed to do?
01:00:21.680 --> 01:00:22.880
That's that's your way of keeping people.
01:00:23.680 --> 01:00:24.640
But I think he loved it.
01:00:24.720 --> 01:00:24.880
Yeah.
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:26.400
So secretly, I think he loved it.
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:33.280
I think he loved the fact that there was an 18-year-old kid that's come over to the first team and he's telling the England captain what to do and where to go.
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:45.519
So yeah, I I well, I know he liked it because he said after, or it might whether it was that day or was the following day, he said, he said, he said, great information, he said, but maybe not as much.
01:00:45.600 --> 01:00:47.280
And I was like, okay, that's a fair point.
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:48.800
Did that help you?
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:50.000
That information?
01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:51.840
Did you give less information afterwards?
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:52.320
Like you might have to do it.
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:56.559
Because it was Tony Adams, but I I wouldn't have changed if I was playing on my YouTube, I'd still do the same.
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:58.000
But that was where I got to understand.
01:00:58.160 --> 01:01:02.559
Well, when you're playing with the elite, they don't need as much information because they don't they know what they're doing.
01:01:02.720 --> 01:01:05.600
Yeah, it shows massive courage though and confidence to go in.
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:10.800
Because most people wouldn't they go, Oh, I don't need to Tony Adams, the England captain, I don't need to tell him what to do.
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.079
Yeah, I don't need to give him information, he knows what he's doing.
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:21.280
Yeah, but again, that's that selfishness selfish thing for me to make sure I was concentrated, so I would just do it for me, really.
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:25.120
Yeah, because you see younger players, they don't they go up a level.
01:01:25.200 --> 01:01:27.440
I notice this and I don't talk, young players.
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:29.680
I got I go and watch Academy football all the time.
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:31.039
My son's at Watford.
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:36.480
I've said to my son, I I want to hear you like loud, but I do talk, but you know, I can't hear you.
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:38.400
Um on the sideline, I want to hear you talk.
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:46.880
So when the ball's gone wide, I want to I want to hear the information you're giving that fullback or that winger because I think that's something that's gone out of the game completely.
01:01:47.120 --> 01:01:48.400
Why do you think that is?
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:49.519
I don't know.
01:01:49.600 --> 01:01:57.280
I think that I think that would be more of a social thing, more of a cult, like more of a a now time where kids are at.
01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:00.320
They're not good communicators, or they're not as good.
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:01.600
That's just a fact.
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:11.440
No, they they they I don't want to get into it, but it would have a lot to do with what they're doing outside of football in terms of the vices and so on.
01:02:11.600 --> 01:02:17.120
But I think that yeah, I think the the confidence to communicate now, I think that's probably gone with some young lads.
01:02:17.200 --> 01:02:21.360
I thought I've done if they'd probably down themselves a little bit, or do they know it, do they know the information?
01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:23.600
Do they know what they're saying is right?
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:25.120
Are they questioning it?
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:29.440
Um, I think you've got to give kids a license to just go and say, go and express yourself, go and say what you want.
01:02:29.600 --> 01:02:31.440
If it's not right, we can talk about it after.
01:02:31.600 --> 01:02:32.880
But don't take that away from them.
01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:34.800
You know, let them let them try and be leaders.
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:35.920
I I agree with that.
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:41.680
I think the devices have got a lot to do with it in terms of like how we communicate now as like young people, but also as well, I think.
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:43.840
Have you heard of like something called spotlight theory?
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:49.039
So it's this idea that people don't like being in the spotlight anymore because they're worried about the fear of judgment.
01:02:49.120 --> 01:03:10.000
And you see it a lot with younger goalkeepers, they go into a first team environment or they're in a you know a youth environment, but they're so worried about the judgment of younger players around them, yeah, that they don't want to communicate because they're worried about being judged or saying the wrong things, and it's such a hard thing to coach out of them, and he's probably very lucky, your son, that he's got you because you've played, so you can give him that advice.
01:03:10.720 --> 01:03:14.800
You're worried about being judged, but you want to get to that top level, so you have to be judged, yeah.
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:16.480
And also playing and judgment.
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:17.600
I say don't worry about it.
01:03:17.680 --> 01:03:20.240
I say, don't worry about being judged, let people judge you.
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:35.920
Don't worry about that, just you know, just I I know what you're doing's right, so I've got to I've got to make him believe that because I don't want to take that away from him, because I think that's a real good quality for a goalkeeper to have is being able to have the confidence to dictate to people on what you want.
01:03:36.160 --> 01:03:41.760
Because I think you do that, if you do that part of your job well, you'll have less to do.
01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:42.559
It's a fact.
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:52.000
You get people in the right position and you urge people to stop shots and stop crosses and not get rolled, they won't get rolled because they know that you're on them.
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:56.800
If you just let them get away with it, it's sometimes it's that it's just that reaction to people.
01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:01.280
Stop the cross, it's just like an instant uh inchal reaction from them.
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:04.079
So yeah, I yeah, I it's it's something I look for.
01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:08.079
When I go and watch games, even if my son, for example, isn't playing, I go and watch a game.
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:09.440
I look at the goalkeeper.
01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:18.559
When even when the ball's down the other end of the pitch, I'm sure we all do it, just to go and see his you know, his mannerisms and what he's doing when the ball's at the other end of the pitch, because I think that's really important.
01:04:18.640 --> 01:04:41.200
Just as a goalie who's proactive who's who's constantly attached to the game, attached to his back four, but moving in relation to where the ball is, maybe not giving information at that moment in time, but certainly when the ball breaks down or it gets turned over, he's he's ready to sort of organise and make sure he's in the right position to deal with anything that comes over the top or comes through.
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:48.640
There was a uh just on that point, the communication side of it, there was a trial that they had at Barnett's that Barnett's training ground, mass trial.
01:04:48.720 --> 01:04:55.440
I think it was like 200 players, and they had them all across all the different pitches, you know, before they built all the astro turf and stuff there, and they had all the grass.
01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:59.360
And there was there must have been at least five or six games going on.
01:04:59.600 --> 01:05:01.680
And I had this goalie that was going on trial there.
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:04.480
I said to him, What's one way that you can stand out?
01:05:04.720 --> 01:05:06.000
And he said, Oh, I'm not sure.
01:05:06.160 --> 01:05:09.039
I said, I want you to be the loudest person at that trial.
01:05:09.200 --> 01:05:14.800
So all the scouts went to go and watch this top game where you had all the Cat 1 releases and all the top players.
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:20.960
And one of the scouts came over to watch his game because he said to him he could hear his voice from the other side of the training ground.
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.240
And he ended up getting signed by a Cat 2 Academy because of that.
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:25.920
Yeah, I could I could see that.
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:31.200
It's a it's a it's a it's a big quality, it's a great quality, it really is for a young lad to be able to do that.
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:33.200
So, how do we coach question?
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:34.240
How do we coach that?
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:37.680
Does do you need specific coaching or is it in you or not in you?
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:42.000
In my opinion, it's very, very hard to make someone a leader.
01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:56.000
You lead in different ways, so you could be, you know, you could you could be professional, you could be uh you can lead off the pitch by the way you by the way you train, by the way you present, by the way you appear, by the way you talk, you could be professional.
01:05:56.240 --> 01:06:03.039
Or you could be um you you can't I can't make you go and talk.
01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:06.480
I can't make you be brave.
01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:09.120
I just can't, they're not qualities I can teach you.
01:06:09.200 --> 01:06:11.680
I think it's I think it's innate, I think it's in you.
01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:18.240
You fight some people fight it's some people will try, but it's not it's not natural, and you can see it's not natural.
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:22.000
You know, you know, some captains you'll see, some captains now they're not talkers.
01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:28.240
Say Bruno Fernandez, maybe, maybe slightly, maybe sometimes he doesn't lead by example.
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:35.760
You can say the same with with lads at other clubs, but the lad at Tottenham who keeps getting sent off, he's he's probably not leading the way he should be.
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:41.360
But but my point is I think it's really it's up to the individual.
01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:44.640
It's up to the individual whether or not they feel comfortable doing that.
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:46.240
I think you touched on it earlier.
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:49.600
I think it's that fear of people questioning what you're saying.
01:06:49.840 --> 01:07:01.200
But yeah, I I I think bravery and uh being vocal, being yeah, being being a leader vocally on a pitch, I don't I I really don't think that's something that you can uh that you can make someone do.
01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:03.600
Do you think you can coach it?
01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:09.600
Because for me, I don't think you can coach the personality part.
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:14.079
I think you can show someone examples of what great communication looks like.
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:16.000
But do you want to make someone uncomfortable?
01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:18.640
So if he's not comfortable, Doing it.
01:07:19.120 --> 01:07:27.840
Even though it's the right thing to do, you know, it it it that could that could have an adverse effect by by making him do something he's not comfortable doing.
01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:31.600
I feel like you have to do things that are uncomfortable in order to go though.
01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:32.559
Yeah, yeah, good point.
01:07:32.640 --> 01:07:33.840
Yeah, isn't it?
01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:36.000
Well, yeah, the courage to step out of the comfort zone.
01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:40.240
I've got I was gonna have a really deep thought in that because I've seen play that.
01:07:41.039 --> 01:08:02.800
I was like, oh my god, I'm I and I was as I was going there, I'm thinking of the players I've worked with, and the players that I've worked with who weren't leaders and now lead or club captains and captains, but I think it comes from self-leadership first, so they led themselves, they become more self-aware, more experienced, more experienced, yeah.
01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:04.800
As you get older, more qualified intelligent.
01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:09.440
Yeah, I've seen some players as well who who are leaders when they're young.
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:12.720
There's they're outliers, right?
01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:14.640
But I've seen people go through their journeys.
01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.199
Can you can you make them leaders?
01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:19.119
I think they've got it in them already.
01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:22.159
So is that but born or made?
01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:25.039
There'll be managers now though that you'll look at that, you know.
01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:34.960
I don't know him personally, but like, for example, Kieran McKenna at Ipswich, like I probably I would I don't know if he was a you look at him as a as a as a person as I said, I don't know.
01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:40.319
Thomas Frank, for example, you know, there'll be other managers out there that you you go, well, what was it?
01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:41.519
Was he a vocal was he vocal?
01:08:41.679 --> 01:08:42.719
Was he a leader on the pitch?
01:08:42.799 --> 01:08:44.079
Was he was he like that?
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:49.359
You know, Carrick was was quite a quiet character, like on the pitch.
01:08:49.599 --> 01:08:56.639
So it's not necessarily to say that if if you're not vocal and you don't lead with your words on a pitch, you can often leave your action.
01:08:56.799 --> 01:09:01.439
It doesn't mean you're not going to become a leader later on, which they clearly are because they're top, top managers.
01:09:01.599 --> 01:09:04.239
So there's yeah, I think there's different elements to it, I suppose.
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:07.439
Yeah, there's loads of different elements to leadership, like so many.
01:09:07.679 --> 01:09:16.639
One of them is like you say, communication, how you hold yourself, resilience, resourcefulness, being honest.
01:09:16.799 --> 01:09:20.079
I think there's so many things that go into leadership that can be talking about framework.
01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:21.199
I think appearance is big.
01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:36.079
I I'm on it all the time with, yeah, as I say, I keep reverting back to my son because it's because he's current, but yeah, the whole cut socks thing, the holes in the back of the socks, the boots undone, like playing with your laces undone, because they're obviously sock boots.
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:40.079
Like the socks down here now, it's like the shorts down there.
01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:42.159
Damn, what does he look like?
01:09:42.559 --> 01:09:43.679
Who's managing that kid?
01:09:43.759 --> 01:09:44.639
Like who's coaching him?
01:09:44.719 --> 01:09:47.119
Who's letting him walk on a football pitch looking like that?
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:58.959
He's 13 and he looks like he's played in two World Cups and won three Premier League titles, and he's on 100 grand a week because he should not be that's not the way that that they should be looking at that age.
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:01.039
That's not the way they should be appearing.
01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:04.879
I think you have to appear and look the part.
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:07.519
Yeah, you can have your coloured boots, that's fine.
01:10:07.679 --> 01:10:08.879
Make sure they're done up.
01:10:09.039 --> 01:10:11.279
Oh, you got your socks on, pull your socks up.
01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:16.399
It's like just I think, yeah, I think to all captains for me should look the part.
01:10:16.559 --> 01:10:17.119
Should look the part.
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:22.479
Do you think that comes from seeing people in on TV and getting influenced in some TV?
01:10:22.639 --> 01:10:28.159
So, for example, I go and watch my nephew play and they're tied on their knees and going.
01:10:33.199 --> 01:10:34.959
Yeah, but is that that's not academy level?
01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:36.079
Is that grassroots?
01:10:36.719 --> 01:10:37.119
Academy.
01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:38.399
Oh, it's academy level.
01:10:38.559 --> 01:10:39.519
Yeah, okay.
01:10:39.839 --> 01:10:42.719
Yeah, but well that's what they do, it's not fever as well, isn't it?
01:10:43.519 --> 01:10:45.119
It's the fever, different celebrations.
01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:46.959
I I I do get it, I do get it.
01:10:47.679 --> 01:10:49.199
Yeah, it's it is a mad one.
01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:53.999
But is that come does that come from being a like going through the experiences you've been through?
01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:59.119
So from obviously cleaning boots, you had to wear did you have to wear black boots?
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:00.319
Black boots only black boots.
01:11:00.799 --> 01:11:01.599
Only black boots, yeah, yeah.
01:11:01.759 --> 01:11:02.479
It was only black boots.
01:11:03.919 --> 01:11:05.519
It was Cope, didn't it?
01:11:05.679 --> 01:11:07.679
Yeah, and I think you had the specialis, didn't you?
01:11:07.759 --> 01:11:09.439
Yeah, the outro specialis as well.
01:11:09.599 --> 01:11:11.119
Uh but yeah, that's what it was.
01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:16.399
But listen, I uh you can't wear what you feel comfortable in, but look the part.
01:11:17.999 --> 01:11:23.119
I think I think it comes down to and we're gonna talk about managers in a second, but like I think it comes down to your manager.
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:30.639
Like, uh my YTS was with quite a strict manager, so black boots only, even if you had like any colour of them, you had to black them out, right?
01:11:30.719 --> 01:11:36.319
Okay, cleaning the snow off the pitches when it snowed, yeah making sure the kit like we used to do our own kit, we didn't have kit men.
01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:38.639
We used to wash our own kit in the training rounds.
01:11:38.719 --> 01:11:47.519
Yeah, I think things like that then shape the the player that you become on the pitch and the way that you carry yourself and the respect that you have for the game and for the environment.
01:11:47.599 --> 01:11:59.039
But I think obviously with FIFA, with social media, with the way that Premier League players maybe present themselves now and with social media, I think maybe kids' perceptions of what footballers are like has changed.
01:11:59.199 --> 01:12:00.159
Yeah, I agree with that.
01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:01.839
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:07.439
Yeah, that that they are everything is so instant, everything is so accessible.
01:12:07.919 --> 01:12:18.479
They could just you know, the YouTube, they'll pick up on stuff and naturally they because they look up to these players, they're like they're role models, they're their idols, they're they're like heroes, that's who they want to be.
01:12:18.719 --> 01:12:20.399
So you try and emulate them, don't you?
01:12:20.559 --> 01:12:21.279
So, yeah.
01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:25.439
I mean, look, it's not to say the first team players shouldn't be doing it, they can do what they like.
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:30.479
They're top athletes, but I think it's down to the coaches to say, listen, you're not there yet, son.
01:12:30.719 --> 01:12:40.639
When you get in the first team, you can pull your socks down, you can cut holes in the back of them, but until you get to the first team, you'll look like everyone else, and that's looking like a fuck looking like a proper football team.
01:12:41.599 --> 01:12:49.439
We can't move on until we speak about arguably one of the most innovative managers in Premier League, if not world football, in Arson Wenger.
01:12:50.079 --> 01:12:51.359
Wenger, Wenger.
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:53.519
I just had never heard him.
01:12:55.679 --> 01:12:57.039
In Arson Wenger.
01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:09.999
Um stepping into that first team and working under him, what were your early experiences like stepping into that dressing room, stepping into that environment under his leadership?
01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:10.959
What was that like?
01:13:11.199 --> 01:13:24.159
Yeah, I think it was it was made pretty, it was made easier because Arson Wenger used to at the old London Coney where Watford are now, the first team pitch used to back on to where the 18s used to play.
01:13:24.639 --> 01:13:28.559
So so after training, Arsenal would sometimes play on a Sunday.
01:13:28.879 --> 01:13:31.359
Nine times out of ten because they play Champions League games.
01:13:31.519 --> 01:13:41.119
So after they're training on a Sunday, uh so after they're training on Saturday, he would walk over to watch our games in the 18s, and he would stand behind the goal.
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:42.559
Imagine that with Pat Rice.
01:13:42.639 --> 01:13:44.879
I'd be like, oh my god, gaffer's watching.
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:50.879
So he would do that, for he would do that like every time we were there, he would always show a keen interest and he would always know your name.
01:13:51.039 --> 01:13:53.199
And they were all so well played, well done.
01:13:53.359 --> 01:13:57.919
So it wasn't like I wasn't like a rabbit in the head, like some just going, oh my god, that's Arsenal Linger.
01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:00.799
Never spoke to him, you know, he don't even know who I am.
01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:16.959
Like it was a little bit easier because I felt comfortable, but then obviously, when you're given that opportunity and you know what the expectations look like, and you know who he's worked with, and you know what he's all about, it's like the standards are high.
01:14:17.759 --> 01:14:38.239
But he was also very realistic as well, like he wouldn't he would understand that you're a young kid coming into the first team, you've got to find your feet, uh, and you're gonna make mistakes, but he would uh but he would but he would expect you to overcome that and just you know and almost just mould yourself into the group because that's why you're there.
01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:40.959
He would almost say, look, you're here because you're good enough.
01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:42.239
Over to you.
01:14:42.559 --> 01:14:48.479
Do you have any memories of like interactions with him or like memorable moments with him that sit in the memory?
01:14:48.719 --> 01:14:54.159
Um, yeah, look, we had conversations uh during my time at Arsenal where I was probably getting a bit frustrated.
01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:57.119
I was a player, they'd pull me and say, Look, you're doing great.
01:14:57.279 --> 01:15:06.159
You know, we'll see you've got a bright future at the club, just keep working hard, so on and so on, and it'd be another conversation to say, Look, we've had interest from somebody else.
01:15:06.239 --> 01:15:09.359
I think it's a great opportunity for you to go alone, get some games.
01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:10.959
So there'd be all that sort of stuff.
01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:12.719
But but he would keep himself to himself.
01:15:12.879 --> 01:15:26.719
But I think that was a good thing because when he spoke to you, you knew it was important, so it didn't get diluted over a period of time where there was constant conversations, which I think some managers do, and it ends up not really resonating as much as it probably should have.
01:15:26.959 --> 01:15:28.639
So um, yeah, we had our chats.
01:15:28.799 --> 01:15:30.639
It was it was a big help to me to Gaffer.
01:15:30.879 --> 01:15:34.319
And obviously, your your time at Arsenal came came to an end.
01:15:34.559 --> 01:15:39.919
What was that like for you having your education pretty much a whole football life at that football club?
01:15:39.999 --> 01:15:42.399
What was the transition like away from the club?
01:15:42.719 --> 01:15:46.399
Yeah, it was difficult at first uh because it's all I ever knew.
01:15:46.639 --> 01:16:00.079
I was at the club for 15 years, so it was like I was excited because it was a fresh challenge, but it's not until that's gone you're going, oh, like that will probably never come back now, that Arsenal won.
01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:03.359
So now it's got like I've got to deal with that, I've got to get out, I've got to get over that.
01:16:03.519 --> 01:16:07.039
Like now I've really got to go and sort of forage my own career.
01:16:07.199 --> 01:16:11.919
But that was me being sort of selfish, really, because I didn't want to be mad.
01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:16.799
Like I was number two at Arsenal and I weren't happy in the Premier League.
01:16:17.039 --> 01:16:18.159
I want to go play.
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:21.919
I look now and I'm going, are these goalie's actually want to go play?
01:16:21.999 --> 01:16:28.639
Like they're like number three and number four, they're not playing games, but they're on a fortune, and maybe that's maybe that's what they want to do.
01:16:28.799 --> 01:16:51.359
I don't know, but but I was so driven to go and forge a career and experience winning, like playing and being a first-team goalkeeper, not part of a first team squad, but actually being number one, and I think that you know you've only got to look at my career to see that I've had probably six, six, seven loan moves.
01:16:51.599 --> 01:16:57.999
I think I've played for like seven championship clubs or eight championship clubs, because I've wanted to go and progress and play.
01:16:58.239 --> 01:17:01.759
But again, that's that's the the character side of it, yeah.
01:17:01.839 --> 01:17:12.639
So so so when you leave Arsenal, it's it's a tough one, it's a tough one to take because you yeah, you know sort of that opportunity's probably gone that uh and that and that boat sailed.
01:17:12.879 --> 01:17:19.519
Uh but but you but you you deal with it, you get over it, it takes a bit of time, but uh, but yeah, not easy.
01:17:19.679 --> 01:17:21.199
Great, one of the greatest clubs in the world.
01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:26.079
So when you when you know that opportunity is gone, it's it's uh yeah, it's a it's a tough one.
01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:29.439
But you'll always be able to say that you play for Arsenal at Highbury.
01:17:29.679 --> 01:17:32.319
I certainly will, and scored a penalty and saved a penalty.
01:17:32.959 --> 01:17:34.239
I left that part out.
01:17:35.519 --> 01:17:39.839
So, how did you find the transition from Arsenal then to becoming a number one?
01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:41.199
Loved it.
01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:51.919
Yeah, I really enjoyed being yeah, walking out, doing a warm-up, preparation for the week, the adulation and the euphoria after winning a game.
01:17:52.479 --> 01:17:57.759
Going out, even going out with a team after after a win, knowing that you've played your part in that.
01:17:57.919 --> 01:17:59.759
I felt like fulfilled.
01:17:59.919 --> 01:18:08.879
I I didn't feel uh when I've been at clubs and I've been a number two, I never actually quite felt I was involved as much as I would have liked to be.
01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:17.359
And that that's obviously frustrating, but you don't obviously you don't let it affect you, you've just got to consistently trying to find ways of how I can get in the team.
01:18:17.679 --> 01:18:23.119
Or if you get to a stage where you're not getting in the team, it's like right, okay, maybe I've got to try and find somewhere else to go and play.
01:18:23.279 --> 01:18:25.599
Which at times I was un I say I was unlucky.
01:18:25.679 --> 01:18:30.399
I was I went to Wolves on loan and Wayne Hennessey was there, like what a goalie.
01:18:30.639 --> 01:18:32.319
But I think he was like 17.
01:18:32.559 --> 01:18:35.439
I know he just broke the record for clean sheets in the in the football league.
01:18:35.519 --> 01:18:38.799
I think get nine in a row at Stockport, it was like outrageous.
01:18:38.959 --> 01:18:42.959
And uh Mick McCarthy broke me to Wolves and said, Look, Stacky, he said, we've got this young kid here.
01:18:43.039 --> 01:18:51.439
He said, I'm not too sure if he's ready to play in the championship because Matt Murray and Carla Kimmy are both injured, both top lads, both brilliant goalies.
01:18:51.679 --> 01:19:08.559
And uh I said, okay, I thought I'd I'd I'll take my chances, I'll go to Wolves, and then within like an hour of working with uh Wayner, I was like, Wow, this kid's good, he's gonna go to the top, and uh I never put up again.
01:19:08.639 --> 01:19:09.439
I played in the cup games.
01:19:09.519 --> 01:19:13.119
I think I probably played a couple of league games that year against Carvan Palace, I think.
01:19:13.359 --> 01:19:16.879
Uh, but yeah, you can get unlucky sometimes as a goalie.
01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:23.999
Um Redin, for example, lost two lost two league games the whole season when Marcus Hanneman was there.
01:19:24.559 --> 01:19:27.119
Uh it's just like you're waiting for an opportunity.
01:19:27.199 --> 01:19:31.039
But if you're not losing games of football, it's very hard to get in or he's not getting injured.
01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:42.159
So yeah, it you go for the right reasons because you want to play, because you want that feeling back, but then sometimes you can yeah, it you can be unfortunate if you're behind a very good number one.
01:19:42.399 --> 01:19:45.759
Yeah, Wayne, Wayne's probably what the one that really kicked on, right?
01:19:46.159 --> 01:19:46.879
When he was at Wolf.
01:19:46.959 --> 01:19:49.919
So I remember I can't believe Arsenal did take him, somewhere like that.
01:19:49.999 --> 01:19:50.159
Yeah.
01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:52.959
I thought he would go, I thought we'd go big Wayne.
01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:57.039
I thought we'd go to United, somewhere like that, because he he was that good.
01:19:57.119 --> 01:19:59.279
I've never seen someone strike a ball as cleanly as him.
01:19:59.679 --> 01:20:04.079
Like he couldn't well with his left foot, like like Edison and his right foot.
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:07.999
That's how I would compare his ball striker was like Edison, like now, like crazy.
01:20:08.239 --> 01:20:09.919
Yeah, my dad's a massive Wolves fan.
01:20:09.999 --> 01:20:19.199
I remember the time when there was the transition period between Kyle Aikimi and uh Matt Murray, and obviously Wayne was kind of coming through, and my dad's no 17-year-old, like young goalie.
01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:21.759
I think he just had his first season in the Prem.
01:20:21.919 --> 01:20:23.279
I'm not sure if he's gonna be ready.
01:20:23.359 --> 01:20:30.639
And then he came out and he just looked the part like he used to have the shirt tucked in, yeah, green wolves kit, he looked like a proper goalie.
01:20:31.679 --> 01:20:32.159
Yeah, yeah.
01:20:32.239 --> 01:20:33.839
He used to have small feet as well, Wayne.
01:20:33.919 --> 01:20:38.719
I remember his feet looked tiny because he was so big.
01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:41.599
But uh, but yeah, good lad.
01:20:41.679 --> 01:20:42.639
Yeah, he was young.
01:20:42.719 --> 01:20:44.959
I tried to yeah, say mentor him.
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:45.919
I think Mick covered me.
01:20:46.239 --> 01:20:50.399
I was very different to Wayne, but I think, yeah, Mick brand me into well people, to be fair.
01:20:50.559 --> 01:20:58.959
You know, probably give him a kick up the ass if he was sort of getting sloppy or putting an arm around him if he was probably struggling a little bit.
01:20:59.199 --> 01:21:04.239
Um, I don't think Mick would have been too keen on me taking him out, intervaling him after a game, put it that way.
01:21:05.919 --> 01:21:07.679
What was what was Mick like as a manager?
01:21:07.759 --> 01:21:11.439
Because he's obviously another massive character that you've got to work with in in Premier League football.
01:21:11.519 --> 01:21:11.999
What was he like?
01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:14.079
Yeah, I've played yeah, that's a mick, yeah.
01:21:14.159 --> 01:21:16.159
Mick's black and white, Mick's who he is.
01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:17.919
Like I love that about Mick.
01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:22.559
So I've yeah, Mick signed me twice actually for Wolves, uh, two low moves.
01:21:23.519 --> 01:21:28.319
I've played twice for Martin Allen, mad dog, he's a big character.
01:21:28.639 --> 01:21:34.719
Mick McCarthy signed me twice, Dennis Wise signed me twice, and Steve Coppel took me twice.
01:21:34.879 --> 01:21:42.399
And I would say they're all certainly the first three, uh Dennis Wise, strong character, Martin Allen, strong character, Mick's the same.
01:21:42.639 --> 01:21:45.919
But Mick's no thrills, Mick tells you straight.
01:21:46.079 --> 01:21:48.399
And when Mick tells you something, you you listen to it.
01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:51.999
Because if you don't, you ain't gonna play, or it'll get someone else in.
01:21:52.159 --> 01:21:53.439
And I do like that about Mick.
01:21:53.519 --> 01:21:59.199
And that's one thing I've throughout my career, I've always tried to take different uh different traits from different managers.
01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:01.519
For example, I like the way he does it.
01:22:01.999 --> 01:22:03.439
I would do that if I was a gaffer.
01:22:03.759 --> 01:22:05.919
So you try and pick little bits out of it.
01:22:06.159 --> 01:22:09.759
So Mick was someone that I always thought he stays true to himself.
01:22:09.919 --> 01:22:17.599
Sometimes he'll probably say things, it'll probably look back on and go, maybe a bit too strong, but yeah, but he'll he'll but he'll live with it and he'll sleep at night.
01:22:17.759 --> 01:22:20.399
So uh yeah, no, I I I love working with Mick.
01:22:20.719 --> 01:22:22.959
So like they're like TC was there, was TC.
01:22:23.279 --> 01:22:23.919
TC was there, yeah.
01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:25.199
They're like a dynamic Jew, aren't they?
01:22:25.359 --> 01:22:29.919
Yeah, they are like completely different, completely different, but it worked.
01:22:30.079 --> 01:22:31.919
It did work, it did work.
01:22:32.079 --> 01:22:33.199
Two very different characters.
01:22:33.519 --> 01:22:34.719
TC was led as well.
01:22:34.799 --> 01:22:37.199
Yeah, Terry Connor.
01:22:37.279 --> 01:22:40.639
Yeah, the only reason I know all of this because my dad, he's a massive Wolves fan.
01:22:40.719 --> 01:22:46.079
So he he we used to watch the TV together when I was younger, and you'd see them on the TV, goes, Oh, that's TC and that's Mick.
01:22:46.479 --> 01:22:49.119
Yeah, yeah, good Super Bowl, actually, yeah, they were.
01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:55.039
Oh man, and then you obviously left Arsenal to go and pursue first team football and to play.
01:22:55.279 --> 01:23:00.959
And I think the first time in your career after that where you really established yourself was was at Barnett, right?
01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:01.199
Yeah.
01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:08.559
How before that, before that, I would say the first, yeah, my first real sort of at Hibs in Scotland.
01:23:08.799 --> 01:23:09.359
Sorry, yeah.
01:23:09.519 --> 01:23:12.639
Yeah, I would say that's probably where I really set my stall out.
01:23:12.879 --> 01:23:16.399
Uh I became a number one for a number of years.
01:23:16.639 --> 01:23:24.719
Uh, yeah, playing, yeah, playing for Hibbs, played in Europe for Hibs, which was which was special, played, played at Hampton for Hibbs, got to a Scottish Cup final.
01:23:24.959 --> 01:23:32.959
But yeah, Hibbs is probably where I really found my feet a little bit after flirting with a number of clubs and not quite yeah, getting settled.
01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:38.399
Um, but then yes, I went to Barnet, which was yeah, loved it, absolutely loved Barnet.
01:23:38.719 --> 01:23:43.119
Yeah, bit of history really, because I sort of grew up, I grew up in uh Hedden.
01:23:43.359 --> 01:23:45.279
So that's like what well, Collingdale.
01:23:45.519 --> 01:23:52.319
So yeah, I grew up around there and obviously the hive and obviously the story of Underhill played there with Arsenal Reserves.
01:23:52.479 --> 01:23:55.519
We used to play there, so there was a a bit of history with that.
01:23:55.919 --> 01:24:12.799
Uh and yeah, what yeah, an emotional couple of seasons, you know, heartbreak and joy getting relegated last day of the season, went at Northampton, saving the last ever penalty at Underhill in the last minute against Wickham, which obviously got down in history because it's not there anymore.
01:24:12.959 --> 01:24:18.959
Uh and then well, yeah, winning the uh National League, which was like actually one of my greatest ever seasons.
01:24:19.119 --> 01:24:19.919
I loved it.
01:24:20.079 --> 01:24:29.519
Gates had away, Halifax away, yeah, the journeys, like the just the camaraderie and the spirit we had in that team was just I was unreal.
01:24:29.679 --> 01:24:33.599
Loved it, despite despite the level, it didn't bother me.
01:24:33.839 --> 01:24:39.999
I was playing week in, week out with a brilliant group of lads for a club I liked, for a manager that I liked.
01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:43.839
It was yeah, it was a it was a good way to sort of go out of league football, really.
01:24:43.999 --> 01:24:45.839
Yeah, I I loved my time there.
01:24:45.999 --> 01:24:47.599
How did you like throughout your career?
01:24:47.679 --> 01:24:51.839
I'm gonna come on to Barnett in a second in more detail because there's there's some stories there that I wanted to tap into.
01:24:51.999 --> 01:24:54.559
But how did you deal with the constant change in your career?
01:24:54.719 --> 01:24:57.999
Because you move you you play for a lot of clubs, either on loan or permanent.
01:24:58.159 --> 01:24:59.519
How did you deal with the constant change?
01:24:59.599 --> 01:25:06.559
Because a lot of young players struggle with dealing with the uncertainty of football and the change that comes from from a career in goalkeeping and football.
01:25:07.279 --> 01:25:11.359
Yeah, it's uh I think you get used to it a lot of the time as well.
01:25:11.439 --> 01:25:19.279
It's like it's so unit's so unsettling because you're going for a three-month loan now, or you're you're yeah, I think I went for three months.
01:25:19.359 --> 01:25:21.039
I never went for a month anywhere.
01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:33.999
Uh, but it's hotels, it's like you're not with your family, you're not with your kids, you're not with your missus, you're up there on your own, you're left to your own devices, you know, you you've got no support really.
01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:36.079
It's just you know, you're constantly travelling.
01:25:36.159 --> 01:25:39.839
So I yeah, Plymouth, it's the other side of the country, not down the bottom.
01:25:39.919 --> 01:25:52.239
But I went I I went assigned uh on a two-year deal down there plus an option, then I went to Blackpool on loan, and then I've you know, I went to Leeds, I was at Leeds on loan, and I was at you know, Wolves on loan.
01:25:52.399 --> 01:25:53.279
Where else did I go?
01:25:53.439 --> 01:25:55.039
Lime, I forget the clubs.
01:25:55.119 --> 01:25:58.159
I I think I went uh where else did I go on loan?
01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:02.239
I forget, there's been quite a few actually, but then obviously just going to Belgium, going to India.
01:26:02.399 --> 01:26:08.159
Like you constantly like I was I was open to the fact of of moving because I wanted to play.
01:26:08.319 --> 01:26:20.879
So there was the the desire of playing football outweighed the stresses and the um sort of like difficulties in in going alone and moving all round the place, staying in hotels.
01:26:20.959 --> 01:26:22.399
It's not easy though, it's not easy.
01:26:22.479 --> 01:26:31.519
It's nice to have a base and be settled and and you know have an apartment and know that you're gonna be there for a season rather than going, I've only got three months here, I need to do well or I'll be back out the door.
01:26:31.679 --> 01:26:33.119
People don't see that side of football, do they?
01:26:33.199 --> 01:26:36.319
Because everyone says to me, Why do you help pro footballers?
01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:40.559
They've got it easy, and I'm like, Whoa! Like you couldn't, isn't it?
01:26:40.719 --> 01:26:44.559
If I put you in their shoes, you'd you'd fall apart.
01:26:44.719 --> 01:26:46.479
It's the judgment, the criticism.
01:26:46.559 --> 01:26:47.919
Yeah, people don't see the moving.
01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:51.519
Like, for example, I had a meltdown just moving to Liverpool, yeah, and I was staying there.
01:26:51.599 --> 01:26:53.439
It wasn't like three months and then back.
01:26:53.519 --> 01:26:59.599
It's constant travelling, going to a new place, meeting new people, new environments, and then before you know it, someone else.
01:26:59.759 --> 01:27:00.639
I've tried doing that with kids.
01:27:00.719 --> 01:27:01.999
I'd like I've got four kids.
01:27:02.079 --> 01:27:05.119
I left my kids' building, went to Israel, went to India.
01:27:05.519 --> 01:27:06.799
How did you find that mentally?
01:27:07.039 --> 01:27:18.959
Tough, yeah, tough because you're you're not, you know, you're on uh FaceTime and you know the first day at school or save the penalty at the weekend, you're not there to watch it.
01:27:19.679 --> 01:27:25.759
All them little sort of memories that you should have been there to witness and you're not there, that's tough.
01:27:25.919 --> 01:27:29.599
But you're staying in a you know, staying in a hotel, you're in a room, you're on your own.
01:27:29.999 --> 01:27:32.319
It's like that's that's no way really.
01:27:32.559 --> 01:27:35.279
It's not what it's not how you want to be living, it's just a fact.
01:27:35.359 --> 01:27:37.199
You want to be surrounded by your friends and family.
01:27:37.279 --> 01:27:39.439
But but then the sacrifices you have to make.
01:27:39.679 --> 01:27:47.999
And you know, people it's easy for people to say that, but I'd like to see people maybe take on some of the challenges that I've took on throughout my career and see how they got on.
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:49.199
That's not always easy.
01:27:49.599 --> 01:27:54.399
Do you think people ever truly get to know the person behind the gloves?
01:27:55.359 --> 01:27:57.039
Yeah, yeah.
01:27:57.599 --> 01:28:02.879
I think I think loads of people know who I am because I'm pretty open and honest.
01:28:03.199 --> 01:28:05.759
Don't really dress anything, don't I have nothing, nothing to add.
01:28:06.319 --> 01:28:10.159
But I think that's just uh yeah, I I I see no reason why they can't.
01:28:10.799 --> 01:28:11.839
Who are you?
01:28:12.799 --> 01:28:13.759
What do you think?
01:28:15.919 --> 01:28:19.279
We always talk about this and like who who we are, who are we?
01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:20.719
I think it's our values and what we stand for.
01:28:21.039 --> 01:28:33.519
Yeah, I think listen, I think I'm a I think I'm a great teammate, I think I'm honest, I think I'm very helpful, respectful, I think I'm loyal, um driven, hardworking.
01:28:34.479 --> 01:28:42.319
Can sometimes be a little bit too much, maybe at times, whether that's whether that would have been on the pitch or off the pitch.
01:28:42.639 --> 01:28:43.599
I get that.
01:28:44.159 --> 01:28:47.599
But uh, but I think yeah, I I think that's probably all right.
01:28:47.839 --> 01:28:50.799
I'm just an honest, I think I'm one of the good guys, put it that way.
01:28:50.959 --> 01:28:53.279
Yeah, I've always tried to help younger players.
01:28:53.439 --> 01:28:58.159
If you speak to any young goalies or any young players at any club I've been at, I would always try and help them out.
01:28:58.319 --> 01:29:03.599
Or try and do the right thing and spend some time with them or give them advice or whatever that might be.
01:29:03.759 --> 01:29:08.079
I've never got too too high, I don't think, as a as as a as a goalie.
01:29:08.159 --> 01:29:13.039
I've always been very mindful that it could could come crashing down at any minute.
01:29:13.199 --> 01:29:14.959
Uh, but I've always spoken my mind.
01:29:15.119 --> 01:29:17.599
I've always spoken my mind with managers, with coaches.
01:29:18.399 --> 01:29:36.239
I've fallen out of a few because I won't I've got principles and I won't there's some non-negotiables that I just won't I I won't I won't accept whether that's with teammates or whether that's with managers the way you speak to people.
01:29:36.399 --> 01:29:41.759
I'm a big believer in the way you deal with people and we speak to them, the way you behave in front of people.
01:29:42.159 --> 01:29:46.799
I'm quite set in stone with that because that's a whole respect thing.
01:29:46.959 --> 01:29:53.199
Uh and that's why I've fallen out of people in the past because I think they've sort of probably gone over the line at times.
01:29:53.679 --> 01:30:12.159
But uh yeah, I'd like to say from my time in football, I'd like to think in every change when I've been in, I can honestly not say that I've I've come out and hated any of them, which is like quite rare, because I know a lot of lads do fall out.
01:30:12.479 --> 01:30:16.319
But I've I've kept uh my relationships pretty sweet over the years, to be fair.
01:30:17.199 --> 01:30:21.919
I I think the word they're looking for, we talked about it, we're gonna do a we were gonna do a session like it the other day, uh authenticity.
01:30:21.999 --> 01:30:22.159
Yeah.
01:30:22.319 --> 01:30:26.319
That's the thing, it's like I know what my values are, I know what I stand for.
01:30:27.279 --> 01:30:30.239
If you like me, you like me, and if you don't, you don't.
01:30:30.959 --> 01:30:32.559
That's for me is authenticity.
01:30:32.639 --> 01:30:36.399
We said it the other day, one of my coaches says a lot of people say that though.
01:30:36.559 --> 01:30:38.719
A lot of people say they're like that, but they're not.
01:30:38.879 --> 01:30:40.239
No, they're not, they're not.
01:30:40.399 --> 01:30:54.239
A lot of people like a lot of people like to think they are, and they say, Yeah, well, I'll say what I how I feel and what I think, but I know that's not the case because I've seen people hammer managers after the game or hammer players after the game.
01:30:54.479 --> 01:30:56.559
And I'm like, go and tell him.
01:30:57.439 --> 01:31:01.679
Man, that you're like you're you're a liar then.
01:31:01.759 --> 01:31:03.039
It's as simple as that.
01:31:03.199 --> 01:31:06.079
It's not always easy to say it, but there's a way of saying it.
01:31:06.399 --> 01:31:15.119
Just you know, if someone's had a bad game, don't have to dig him out in front of everyone, but don't say it behind his back, just go and pull him up, just say, listen, what was up with you today?
01:31:15.279 --> 01:31:18.239
Or it might be a reason why he's played badly, you don't know.
01:31:18.319 --> 01:31:22.239
So don't isolate him and put him in a position where it's uncomfortable.
01:31:22.399 --> 01:31:24.479
But yeah, I've played with a lot of them as well.
01:31:24.959 --> 01:31:28.879
Frauds that actually think they're someone that they're not.
01:31:29.279 --> 01:31:43.439
Yeah, so when you say in football, the the mask, yeah, it's like putting the mask on, and you notice that with a lot of people, like especially from behind the scenes, and you'll see a player, and then you'll see what they're like, and it's not them, you know.
01:31:43.599 --> 01:31:48.559
Hold on a minute, that's there's something there's a bit of inauthenticity.
01:31:48.639 --> 01:31:53.759
So my coach, I said it the other day, he says authenticity is just a lack of inauthenticity.
01:31:53.999 --> 01:31:54.799
I think that's really cool.
01:31:54.879 --> 01:32:00.479
And it's like there's a difference between being another thing that popped up being nice and being kind.
01:32:00.799 --> 01:32:06.479
Kind is you actually there's a way to say it, you're saying it in a in a certain way.
01:32:06.879 --> 01:32:11.279
Nice is you're not you're not saying you're not being authentic in what you mean.
01:32:11.519 --> 01:32:15.039
Yeah, I think obviously you need to have a nasty side as well.
01:32:15.439 --> 01:32:24.159
I know I've said that before, but in this world and in this game, if you haven't got that side to you, you will get walked all over and people will take liberties.
01:32:24.559 --> 01:32:26.559
That's just whether that's with coaches.
01:32:26.719 --> 01:32:30.639
If coaches think you're easy to drop or easy to leave out, they'll leave you out.
01:32:30.879 --> 01:32:40.719
If they think that you've gonna start charging down that tunnel or down that you know into their into their office and bang on the door, I do think they'd have question marks over doing it.
01:32:40.799 --> 01:32:41.599
I genuinely believe that.
01:32:41.759 --> 01:32:43.519
I was gonna say, do you think do you think that?
01:32:43.599 --> 01:32:45.199
Because I get bullies time on my turn.
01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:46.079
That's one thing I don't like.
01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:58.559
I don't like bullies in the change room, I don't like bullies in general, but you've got to back yourself and you've got to almost put the pressure on the gaffer to say, listen, if you leave me out, we're gonna need to talk about this.
01:32:59.199 --> 01:33:02.159
Or you don't play me after he's thrown three in.
01:33:02.399 --> 01:33:04.079
We need to have a conversation.
01:33:04.239 --> 01:33:08.959
So I think you've definitely got to have that belief as well that you can.
01:33:09.359 --> 01:33:15.119
And if someone questions you and say, You I think you've got to be, you've got to be your own man, you've got to be able to deal with it.
01:33:15.199 --> 01:33:17.679
And if you if he's right, you've got to be able to hold your hands up.
01:33:17.839 --> 01:33:19.999
So yeah, you're just you know, you're bang on.
01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:25.679
But you've definitely gotta, you've definitely got to be able to sort of yeah, be true to yourself.
01:33:25.999 --> 01:33:27.999
Because if you if you're not, you can't.
01:33:28.079 --> 01:33:31.439
Oh well, I can't stick the head on a pillow at night if I'm if if I'm not.
01:33:31.679 --> 01:33:33.119
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:33:33.359 --> 01:33:37.039
Before you go on, we've got a massive offer for you.
01:33:37.199 --> 01:33:42.799
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01:33:42.959 --> 01:33:46.639
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01:33:46.879 --> 01:33:50.559
Do you get six mindset sessions, two technical test changes?
01:33:50.639 --> 01:33:52.159
Why should they go and get the phone?
01:33:52.559 --> 01:33:58.399
But listen, if you're a goalkeeper and you've ever felt nervous going into a game, maybe you feel that you've lacked that confidence or that courage.
01:33:58.639 --> 01:33:59.999
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01:34:00.239 --> 01:34:05.679
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01:34:05.839 --> 01:34:11.279
And Rob, I've always said if you're gonna have world-class gloves, you've got to have a world-class mindset to go with it.
01:34:11.519 --> 01:34:12.639
Back to the show.
01:34:12.959 --> 01:34:18.719
I remember you probably won't remember this, but I went in on the trial at Barnett when I was like 15, 16 years old.
01:34:18.879 --> 01:34:26.479
And I walked into the gym upstairs at the hive, and you were in the gym, and I couldn't get in because you used to need the key cards to get in.
01:34:27.359 --> 01:34:31.039
So you let me in the gym, you're like, Oh hi, come over, like, come and use the gym.
01:34:31.119 --> 01:34:32.079
This is where all the stuff is.
01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:35.359
I thought, oh, Stacky's a great guy, like he's super chilled.
01:34:35.759 --> 01:34:43.439
So I came out, went training with the with the 18s and the 16s, and you were training behind the uh the building behind the ground on the bottom pitch.
01:34:43.679 --> 01:34:44.799
Came over and watched.
01:34:45.039 --> 01:34:47.119
I just remember thinking, oh yeah, Stacky's a really nice guy.
01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:49.119
I think it's Jamal low in that team when he was younger.
01:34:49.359 --> 01:34:54.479
Yeah, you've pinged the ball up to him, he's not held it up, and you've just absolutely fucking hammered him.
01:34:54.559 --> 01:34:56.959
I went, Oh, Stacky weren't like that with me earlier.
01:34:57.759 --> 01:34:59.279
And what's Jamal gone on to do?
01:34:59.359 --> 01:34:59.679
Yeah.
01:34:59.919 --> 01:35:01.999
He's had what a career he's had.
01:35:02.239 --> 01:35:06.479
Because that's because you're setting standards, the expectations are higher.
01:35:06.639 --> 01:35:08.959
Jamal, you're playing centre forward, you've got to get hold of the ball.
01:35:09.119 --> 01:35:10.319
What we're gonna do, not tell him.
01:35:10.399 --> 01:35:11.279
I've got to tell him.
01:35:11.439 --> 01:35:12.799
It's gonna make him a better player.
01:35:12.959 --> 01:35:14.319
And I absolutely love Jamal.
01:35:14.479 --> 01:35:17.839
And I'm buzzing he's gone on to have the career he's had, and what a lovely kid as well.
01:35:17.919 --> 01:35:18.959
I absolutely love him.
01:35:19.199 --> 01:35:21.119
But but there's nothing wrong with that.
01:35:21.359 --> 01:35:27.279
Okay, it's the way you deal with it, but when you're on a football pitch, it's not uh, excuse me, please, uh, yeah, thank you, nice one.
01:35:27.359 --> 01:35:29.279
It's wait, do it like this.
01:35:29.599 --> 01:35:43.439
And if I ain't come for a cross, I expect someone to pull me and say, wait, come and take that cross, get off your line, because that's that's the environment we're in, or it used to be anyway, which is accountability, yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah.
01:35:43.839 --> 01:35:50.319
But sometimes people don't like doing that because they it's just again, it might not be a just manifest out.
01:35:50.399 --> 01:35:50.959
Don't worry about it.
01:35:51.279 --> 01:35:52.639
Kick another one up there, made another one.
01:35:53.679 --> 01:35:55.599
Do you think times have changed in football?
01:35:55.759 --> 01:36:02.959
So we talk about the dressing room now, it is a lot, it's a lot different, but uh couldn't be further away from where it used to be.
01:36:03.199 --> 01:36:05.999
That's why I stopped to enjoy it, I'll be honest with you.
01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:20.719
It weren't the so it wasn't always a social side to it, but it was yeah, I just think that obviously I sound like an old man, but like the phones, when the phone started coming into it, and yeah, it would just it just lost its touch, really.
01:36:20.879 --> 01:36:21.839
Yeah, it lost its touch.
01:36:21.919 --> 01:36:28.079
I think the personality is the you know the the crazy sort of side to it, which is what I loved.
01:36:28.319 --> 01:36:32.319
Uh it just yeah, it started to fizzle out for me.
01:36:32.399 --> 01:36:38.959
Uh, you know, Christmas dudes, 25 man squad, there's like ten of you, no good.
01:36:39.439 --> 01:36:43.679
Away trip for six hours, no card school, that's no good.
01:36:43.999 --> 01:36:50.079
Win a game away from home, want to get back, go out for a beer, no takers, that's no good.
01:36:50.239 --> 01:36:52.799
So there was like parts of that that I struggled with.
01:36:52.879 --> 01:36:54.239
I didn't understand, you know.
01:36:54.319 --> 01:36:56.959
You you you've just signed, you've got to stand on a chair and sing a song.
01:36:57.039 --> 01:36:58.719
You get people refusing to do it.
01:36:59.519 --> 01:37:00.319
What is going on?
01:37:00.559 --> 01:37:05.039
This is like no, just what you do, get on a chair, you've got to sing a song.
01:37:05.439 --> 01:37:08.799
But then again, you go, you don't want to sing a song, you can't make him.
01:37:08.959 --> 01:37:11.199
But that was kind of where the game was going.
01:37:11.439 --> 01:37:14.799
It was just like, yeah, it almost like the game started losing.
01:37:14.959 --> 01:37:18.719
Or the changing room started to lose a bit of power, I think.
01:37:18.959 --> 01:37:22.799
Um, and I think that was due to sort of characters really just being faded out.
01:37:23.359 --> 01:37:27.279
Because not a lot of managers want too many characters, which I think's mad.
01:37:27.359 --> 01:37:31.279
Because if I was a manager, I'd get loads of characters because they'd run the changing room for me.
01:37:32.239 --> 01:37:33.279
Make my job easier.
01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:38.799
As long as they've done what I asked them to do and delivered the same messages that I wanted them to deliver, that's fine.
01:37:39.119 --> 01:37:46.239
But because characters have an opinion, a lot of managers don't like dealing with too many of them.
01:37:47.919 --> 01:37:48.479
Questionable.
01:37:48.559 --> 01:37:51.759
With Frank going into Tottenham, there are too many characters in there for him.
01:37:51.839 --> 01:37:53.039
There's too many egos.
01:37:53.359 --> 01:37:59.199
When he was at Brentford, it might be nice and nice and easy because of who they're recruit who who they'd recruited.
01:37:59.359 --> 01:38:04.639
But yeah, some managers don't like having too many of them in the squad, which I think is like crazy.
01:38:04.719 --> 01:38:07.839
As long as they're doing the right thing, then you've got to keep them on side as well.
01:38:07.919 --> 01:38:11.519
Otherwise, it could have badly because that's power in numbers.
01:38:12.719 --> 01:38:13.919
Edgar Davids.
01:38:14.879 --> 01:38:21.439
Tell tell us about your time at Barnett with Edgar Davids, because I remember my experience there of just observing from the outside.
01:38:21.599 --> 01:38:23.759
What was your inner workings like with him?
01:38:24.319 --> 01:38:24.719
Do you know what?
01:38:24.799 --> 01:38:26.079
I really liked Edgar.
01:38:26.319 --> 01:38:27.839
I really, really liked him.
01:38:28.079 --> 01:38:33.199
Uh obviously, the the obviously the famous thing is obviously with him wearing number one.
01:38:33.359 --> 01:38:44.479
Um, but he came and pulled me in a in a canteen on the yeah, the day before our team photo, I think it was, or leading up to our first game of the season, and he just said uh he said uh stack.
01:38:44.559 --> 01:38:47.519
He's called me stack at the moment.
01:38:47.599 --> 01:38:48.799
But you we used to have to call him Mr.
01:38:49.039 --> 01:38:49.839
How mad's that?
01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:50.559
Mr.
01:38:50.959 --> 01:38:51.999
Mister, yeah.
01:38:52.159 --> 01:38:54.319
So Edgar Davids, we had to call him Mr.
01:38:54.559 --> 01:38:58.479
But it's like gaffer, it's just Mr.
01:38:58.879 --> 01:39:05.359
from where we're from, is like what it's normally gaffer or boss, but it was I think it's like the same thing basically in Holland.
01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:09.519
So that was a bit of a shock, but that's the first thing that blew my mind calling this geezer Mr.
01:39:09.759 --> 01:39:10.639
It's like mad.
01:39:10.879 --> 01:39:21.439
Uh, but yeah, he asked her wear number one, and uh I was like, yeah, cool, because I got played a year the season before that, and I thought I wore 26, 26 or something like that.
01:39:21.519 --> 01:39:23.359
Yeah, 26 or 25.
01:39:23.679 --> 01:39:25.919
Uh, so I was I was absolutely fine with it.
01:39:25.999 --> 01:39:26.959
It was just the squad number.
01:39:27.039 --> 01:39:32.559
And I actually asked Mick McCarthy because we played it for each other pre-season friendly, and Mick, uh, I said to Mick, what about?
01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:37.919
He said, Well, I said, I said to Mick, what about uh the gaffer wearing like number one?
01:39:37.999 --> 01:39:39.599
And he went, Stacky, he went, son.
01:39:39.839 --> 01:39:42.719
He said, I've had plenty of number ones sit behind me on the bench.
01:39:42.879 --> 01:39:46.639
In other words, it don't matter what number you got on the back, it matters whether or not you're on a pitch or not.
01:39:46.799 --> 01:39:48.319
So I was like, Do you know what, Mick?
01:39:48.399 --> 01:39:49.519
I said, just put on.
01:39:49.679 --> 01:39:51.439
So uh yeah, that was his thing.
01:39:51.599 --> 01:39:54.079
But uh, but I listen, I was excited.
01:39:54.159 --> 01:39:57.839
I see his Bentley Continental come down the drive at Barnett, I was like, Who's this?
01:39:57.999 --> 01:40:02.639
And then I see the dreadlocks and the glasses come out, and I was like, that is actually Edgar David's.
01:40:02.879 --> 01:40:05.599
Uh but I was buzzing, I was excited.
01:40:05.759 --> 01:40:10.879
Yeah, I used to uh yeah, I used to watch him when he was at Juve and Barcel and stuff like that.
01:40:10.959 --> 01:40:12.159
It was like it's a legend.
01:40:12.879 --> 01:40:16.559
So uh yeah, playing under him was brilliant, playing with him was brilliant.
01:40:16.799 --> 01:40:28.399
Um I don't think he would probably part of it was a little bit disappointed because I expected him to run the games from start to finish, like because of who he was.
01:40:28.559 --> 01:40:31.519
But I just think he probably struggled with a level as well, to be fair.
01:40:31.599 --> 01:40:36.959
Uh, no disrespect to the level or the players that we were playing with or against, but he weren't at the level he was used to.
01:40:37.119 --> 01:40:41.759
But uh, but sometimes he'd be poor, he'd let himself down, he wouldn't play well, get sent off.
01:40:41.919 --> 01:40:43.919
That's just got sent off in his first game, didn't he?
01:40:44.159 --> 01:40:45.839
Sent off three times in one season, I think.
01:40:46.319 --> 01:40:47.759
Yeah, he had a temper.
01:40:48.399 --> 01:40:50.479
I heard this story, I don't know if it's true.
01:40:50.639 --> 01:40:52.399
I wanted to ask if you could confirm it or not.
01:40:52.479 --> 01:40:56.639
But is it true that he once parked his Bentley behind the goal to watch training?
01:40:56.799 --> 01:41:03.199
Yeah, because it was Chuck and Nelvin Ray, and a cappuccino and a cross on, and he just watched training like that for his Bentley with a wiper's going.
01:41:05.039 --> 01:41:06.239
That's a true story.
01:41:06.799 --> 01:41:07.679
True story.
01:41:07.919 --> 01:41:10.879
Well, so the goal, so the the car was parked behind the goal.
01:41:10.959 --> 01:41:12.879
Were you in the goal in front of the Bentley?
01:41:12.959 --> 01:41:16.239
No, I think I was at the other end and watched it like I could I could see the car.
01:41:16.479 --> 01:41:19.039
I was at the other end of the pitch while he was watching it.
01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:20.719
But he was a player, by the way.
01:41:20.799 --> 01:41:21.679
So he was a player.
01:41:22.079 --> 01:41:24.559
He just decided that he didn't want to train for that on that day.
01:41:25.599 --> 01:41:27.759
Yeah, he was such so he was so chilled out.
01:41:27.919 --> 01:41:29.439
He went from one extreme to the other.
01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:37.599
Like he'd be like in your face and wanted to like have a punch up, or he'd be like, nicest geezer in the world, talk about his type and have a Holland World Cups.
01:41:37.839 --> 01:41:39.519
Like it was like quite intriguing, really.
01:41:39.599 --> 01:41:47.759
You'd want to get to know you'd it was like you'd want to get to know him because he he's got probably so much to talk about and so much experience that you'd want to try and get out of him.
01:41:48.079 --> 01:41:50.079
But he was just a bit guarded like that.
01:41:50.239 --> 01:41:51.119
But I liked him.
01:41:51.279 --> 01:41:51.839
I liked him.
01:41:51.919 --> 01:42:09.919
Not everyone liked him, he wasn't the most popular amongst our group because of the way he spoke to people, which I didn't like, but he had he had standards and he had expectations, and if he can't live up to them, then that's just you know, it's he he he he can't accept that.
01:42:09.999 --> 01:42:12.719
But he's got to understand that that's that's the level we were at.
01:42:13.599 --> 01:42:17.839
I gotta ask you about obviously I'm Indian heritage, right, from India.
01:42:17.999 --> 01:42:22.399
I gotta ask you about your time at Kerala playing in the uh Indian Premier League over there.
01:42:22.639 --> 01:42:27.039
What was that what was that like as an experience going all the way over there to play?
01:42:27.279 --> 01:42:28.799
Oh, listen, I loved it.
01:42:29.039 --> 01:42:32.639
Probably one of the best things I've done in my life to go to India.
01:42:32.799 --> 01:42:36.159
Uh played for Kerala Blasters in the Indian Super League.
01:42:36.399 --> 01:42:41.279
Um went with Michael Chopra and Aaron Hughes.
01:42:41.439 --> 01:42:43.599
There was a couple of sort of British lads there.
01:42:43.679 --> 01:42:46.319
Uh Steve Copper was a manager, Wally Downs was the assistant.
01:42:46.399 --> 01:42:47.839
So again, that helped.
01:42:47.999 --> 01:42:50.639
Uh, but yeah, what an experience.
01:42:50.879 --> 01:42:53.599
And I think we touched on it before we started this.
01:42:53.759 --> 01:42:57.999
That got to an Indian Super League final in front of 80,000 people.
01:42:58.319 --> 01:43:00.719
I thought my career was sort of finished.
01:43:00.959 --> 01:43:02.559
So that would come out of nowhere, really.
01:43:02.719 --> 01:43:09.599
But yeah, just travelling around India, playing a good Mumbai, Calcutta, Delhi, North East.
01:43:09.759 --> 01:43:11.759
It was like, yeah, it was an incredible journey.
01:43:11.839 --> 01:43:12.319
I loved it.
01:43:12.399 --> 01:43:17.199
Yeah, just seeing parts of India, the expense of the culture, the people were incredible.
01:43:17.439 --> 01:43:18.719
I couldn't know enough yeah.
01:43:18.799 --> 01:43:22.319
It was uh, yeah, it was one I looked back with with uh with full memories.
01:43:22.479 --> 01:43:23.999
Gutted that we didn't win the final.
01:43:24.399 --> 01:43:25.839
I saved the near Hume penalty.
01:43:25.919 --> 01:43:26.879
I don't know if you remember him.
01:43:27.039 --> 01:43:28.639
You look a bit like Hume, actually.
01:43:28.959 --> 01:43:30.479
Is he a good-looking ball geezer?
01:43:30.719 --> 01:43:33.119
Yes, with a lot about him.
01:43:33.359 --> 01:43:38.719
So you got a Google in Hume, and I wanted to put your face and his face next to each other.
01:43:38.959 --> 01:43:39.359
I love that.
01:43:39.519 --> 01:43:40.479
So talk about the end.
01:43:40.879 --> 01:43:41.999
We talked about Barnett.
01:43:42.079 --> 01:43:43.519
How did you find the end of your career?
01:43:43.679 --> 01:43:49.279
And was coaching your natural progression to go to, or is it like I don't know anything else about football?
01:43:49.359 --> 01:43:50.559
This is what I need to get into.
01:43:50.799 --> 01:43:52.239
Yeah, well, I yeah, it was.
01:43:52.319 --> 01:44:01.439
I I went back, well, I went to university to do uh a degree in uh professional sports running and broadcasting, but I always felt as though coaching was what I wanted to do.
01:44:01.519 --> 01:44:12.879
I felt that's I I thought I'd be I thought I'd be brilliant at it, you know, whether or not I turned out to be brilliant, we don't know, but but yeah, I I loved the idea of being a goalkeeping coach or being a football coach.
01:44:12.959 --> 01:44:28.239
I mean I had my outfield A licence when I was 20 27, maybe 28, and then I had my goalkeeping like uh A licence by the time I was probably I don't know, 30 something, quite early, yeah.
01:44:28.319 --> 01:44:37.519
Maybe not as early as that for my outfield actually, but yeah, but I basically got both my A licences, obviously my outfield uh B, my goalkeeping B youth mods.
01:44:37.599 --> 01:44:40.479
I'd done all of them by the time I was probably like 32, 33.
01:44:40.559 --> 01:44:41.599
I was like qualified.
01:44:42.079 --> 01:44:46.879
So I always knew naturally I would sort of probably go in that direction, yeah.
01:44:47.119 --> 01:44:50.079
But yeah, no, I I I loved the coaching side of it, I really did.
01:44:50.159 --> 01:45:01.679
I love developing young goalies, I've got a massive buzz out of going and watching play Kings Langley on loan or Willstone on loan or Oxford City on loan, it didn't matter.
01:45:01.759 --> 01:45:24.399
Like I loved actually going and watch these young boys go and play and play their train and see how they react to certain scenarios on it on a match day when they're fully grown blokes are playing for a hundred pound win bonus and they're like getting the um if you can't kick it to the winger or you're kicking off the pitch or you're not covered for crosses, like seeing how they reacted to that was something I really enjoyed.
01:45:24.559 --> 01:45:25.839
Uh I do miss it.
01:45:25.919 --> 01:45:26.799
I miss it a little bit.
01:45:26.959 --> 01:45:32.239
I miss I miss being around people more than anything.
01:45:32.479 --> 01:45:42.239
Uh and talking football, but but even that, I mean yeah, this is another podcast, but yeah, even some of the coaches now, like they drive me mad a little bit.
01:45:42.479 --> 01:45:51.599
Yeah, it's all a bit prescribed for me, it's all a bit like YouTube, sort of like I've seen this and I heard that, and have you seen what they're doing on here?
01:45:51.679 --> 01:45:56.719
And I've it's just like, yeah, it does frustrate me, some of these coaches, I've got to say.
01:45:57.039 --> 01:46:05.359
Not trying to reinvent the world, but uh yeah, you can see now the game's just going back to the way it was a little bit, bit of a throwback at the moment, isn't it?
01:46:05.439 --> 01:46:06.799
With long phones and all the rest of it.
01:46:07.359 --> 01:46:12.879
We could talk about restarts, uh blue in the face and how different to do it against different presses and different builds and all that.
01:46:12.959 --> 01:46:17.119
It's just yeah, it's just I think it's become a little bit overcoached now.
01:46:17.279 --> 01:46:33.919
Um it's taken the uh yeah, I'd like to see the shackles be taken off some kids just to let them go and do their own thing and just play what they see and play what they feel, not necessarily having it so set up and like rigid, which I think it is at times.
01:46:34.079 --> 01:46:38.559
But but yeah, as I say, that's that's like another conversation with coaches and stuff.
01:46:38.719 --> 01:46:39.759
Some are some are unreal.
01:46:39.839 --> 01:46:46.959
I mean, Alfie works with a goalkeeping coach at at Watford at the minute, Arthur Janetta, and he's like he's top, top, top.
01:46:47.279 --> 01:46:48.479
Played against him at Orient.
01:46:48.639 --> 01:46:58.719
Yeah, but he's got some really good ideas, but he doesn't have a coach, it doesn't, he understands what what the what you need to look like.
01:46:58.799 --> 01:46:59.919
Where's the end game?
01:46:59.999 --> 01:47:04.959
It doesn't have to be all thrills and just be good at this, be good at this, be good at this, be great at that.
01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:05.839
Can you be great at that?
01:47:05.919 --> 01:47:07.199
And then you'll you'll get there eventually.
01:47:07.359 --> 01:47:08.239
Do you know what I mean?
01:47:08.479 --> 01:47:19.919
But uh yeah, I I must say I I I don't I don't watch stuff online, but I get sent stuff, like other goalkeeping coaches would send me stuff, but other goalies would send me stuff on WhatsApp and go, Have you seen this?
01:47:20.079 --> 01:47:23.839
And I'd watch it and I go, like, what am I watching?
01:47:23.919 --> 01:47:25.679
Like, how is that improving a goalie?
01:47:25.839 --> 01:47:29.999
At what point is that are you thinking that is relevant to the game?
01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:38.959
Uh and I will have a little nibble as well now because the other thing that drives me mad is when goalkeepers put their sessions on when LinkedIn, like that just does my head in.
01:47:39.119 --> 01:47:54.479
Because that's like, look at me, and I don't know if you do that, I don't care, but I don't want a goalie coach, but it's just like the whole I don't know, it's just become like a bit of a PR stunt, and it's just like free advertising, yeah.
01:47:54.559 --> 01:47:59.439
And I know goalies do it, and I know you've had uh you've had some of them on here, and I love you all to pieces, by the way.
01:47:59.519 --> 01:48:05.439
It's not personal, but um yeah, I just don't I've I've never quite got that.
01:48:05.599 --> 01:48:06.799
I never quite got that.
01:48:06.959 --> 01:48:11.519
I understand you want to show people what you're capable of doing, and you know, we've done stuff.
01:48:11.599 --> 01:48:17.359
I've done the Mike Tup thing at Watford, and you know, they put that on the website, which I was happy with, but I never changed where I was.
01:48:17.439 --> 01:48:18.959
I played their tennis now to laugh.
01:48:19.279 --> 01:48:23.199
Don't win in a warm-up for the 21s because the club had asked me to do it, which I'm fine with.
01:48:23.519 --> 01:48:29.999
But I wouldn't I wouldn't put stuff on my LinkedIn or about the session, and yeah, I just wouldn't do that.
01:48:30.079 --> 01:48:34.479
I think you're trying to glorify who you are and what you're doing, just let other people do that.
01:48:34.719 --> 01:48:45.439
Um let other people compliment you about the work you're doing, or actually go one better, get people in the first team, you know, get get get goalies, signing new contracts, getting moves.
01:48:45.599 --> 01:48:48.639
That's when you get a pat on the back, not putting on a session.
01:48:48.719 --> 01:48:51.119
And uh it's all a bit too mad for me.
01:48:51.199 --> 01:48:52.319
But couple last questions.
01:48:52.479 --> 01:48:53.119
What do you think?
01:48:53.199 --> 01:48:59.119
Because you've been through a great career and then you've gone into coaching.
01:48:59.279 --> 01:49:02.559
What do you think a young goalkeeper needs?
01:49:02.719 --> 01:49:03.759
What traits do they need?
01:49:03.839 --> 01:49:06.479
Because this is here to help people and help young goalkeepers.
01:49:06.559 --> 01:49:08.159
What do you think the main traits that they need?
01:49:08.559 --> 01:49:10.799
Yeah, we touched on it earlier, didn't we?
01:49:10.879 --> 01:49:15.839
In terms of like, first and foremost, to be a goalie, you need a real strong mentality.
01:49:16.319 --> 01:49:29.039
You know, you need to you need to believe in yourself, you need to back yourself, you need to out train the other goalie, you need to listen more than the other goalie, you need to be a quicker learner than the other goalie.
01:49:29.759 --> 01:49:32.479
There's all these things that are gonna make you better.
01:49:32.639 --> 01:49:35.199
Uh self-belief is massive, in my opinion.
01:49:35.439 --> 01:49:40.559
If you if you're not backing yourself as a goalie, then I think you can see that.
01:49:40.719 --> 01:49:46.959
I think that I think you can actually observe that that goalie's not quite sure about himself.
01:49:47.199 --> 01:49:52.879
Sometimes it can be a bit of a facade, sometimes it's almost like chest out, loud.
01:49:53.119 --> 01:49:54.399
There's an element of that.
01:49:54.559 --> 01:50:00.559
I'm not saying everyone's got to do that, but I think you have to you have to have that aura about you as a goalie, definitely.
01:50:00.799 --> 01:50:05.919
Uh be resilient, so important when you make mistakes.
01:50:06.399 --> 01:50:07.439
Don't let it fester.
01:50:07.679 --> 01:50:08.879
How quickly can you move on?
01:50:08.959 --> 01:50:13.119
You know, wait for that next action, get that one right, and then you can build, you know, could build from there.
01:50:13.359 --> 01:50:15.359
Can you make match-winning saves?
01:50:15.599 --> 01:50:17.599
Ultimately, can you keep the team in the game?
01:50:17.759 --> 01:50:19.039
Are you reliable?
01:50:19.279 --> 01:50:21.039
That's the biggest thing for me.
01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:22.559
You know, is he reliable?
01:50:22.799 --> 01:50:24.079
Well, I'll pick him every week.
01:50:24.319 --> 01:50:25.119
Has he let me down?
01:50:25.199 --> 01:50:25.839
Does he let me down?
01:50:25.919 --> 01:50:27.519
Is he good around the changing room?
01:50:27.679 --> 01:50:29.279
Uh does he lead in the right ways?
01:50:29.439 --> 01:50:30.559
Does he help people?
01:50:30.719 --> 01:50:32.239
You know, is he on time?
01:50:32.319 --> 01:50:33.439
Does he look the part?
01:50:34.239 --> 01:50:37.039
There's a there's a there's a list you could go on.
01:50:37.599 --> 01:50:39.759
What does the perfect player look like?
01:50:39.999 --> 01:50:42.399
Certainly, what does a perfect young player look like?
01:50:42.559 --> 01:50:45.839
And I think there's all of the above, really, everything I've just said.
01:50:45.919 --> 01:50:50.319
Uh but you'll be judged-listen, you'll be judged on performances and training and and in games.
01:50:50.399 --> 01:51:01.119
And I think just understand as a young goalie that opportunities are going to be few and far between, and your career can be short and heartbreakingly enough at times.
01:51:01.199 --> 01:51:17.439
I mean, just this week at Watford, you know, obviously, because my son's in the academy, they released a number of players this week at under 14s, and all and then that was a wake up call to my son a little bit, saying that this is reality, you know, this is this is tough.
01:51:17.919 --> 01:51:19.199
This is all you've ever wanted to do.
01:51:19.279 --> 01:51:20.479
This is your dream.
01:51:20.719 --> 01:51:22.959
Uh, all we ever talk about is football.
01:51:23.279 --> 01:51:27.439
All you want to do is play football, but you're no different to these lads that have just been released.
01:51:27.519 --> 01:51:33.119
So they're now gonna have to try and dust themselves down and pick themselves up and need support from family and friends.
01:51:33.199 --> 01:51:44.479
But but it's tough, it's hard for young goalkeepers, it's hard for young players in general because the margins, you know, the the opportunity, the competition, it's not in your favour.
01:51:44.639 --> 01:51:45.759
It's not in your favour.
01:51:45.919 --> 01:51:51.519
So to make it or to turn it at least close to being in your favour, you need to do, you know, everything that I've just mentioned.
01:51:51.679 --> 01:51:58.319
But but it takes dedication, takes drive, making sacrifices from a really young age.
01:51:58.399 --> 01:52:00.079
It's just something that you're gonna have to do.
01:52:00.239 --> 01:52:01.439
That's something that I did.
01:52:01.679 --> 01:52:04.319
So I'm trying to educate my son or do it himself.
01:52:04.559 --> 01:52:09.279
Uh but yeah, it's uh it's a long journey, but it's one worth doing.
01:52:09.679 --> 01:52:17.359
If you get to the top and you can experience some of the stuff that I've experienced, playing against some of the players I've played against, I've played with at stadiums, I've played in.
01:52:17.439 --> 01:52:19.599
It's like yeah, very quite true.
01:52:20.479 --> 01:52:22.159
And just finally, last question.
01:52:22.239 --> 01:52:29.519
Uh obviously you've transitioned again in your in your career, you're still doing the coaching stuff, and I know you're available for coaching at the moment, right?
01:52:30.799 --> 01:52:31.759
We'll see.
01:52:32.719 --> 01:52:40.479
But you've obviously you've obviously started doing some some really big charity work, I'd argue, and in in the charity boxing with ex-professional footballers.
01:52:40.559 --> 01:52:42.079
Do you want to tell people a little bit about that?
01:52:42.319 --> 01:52:48.239
Yeah, so I set up Pro Project Promotions uh just over a year ago, I think now.
01:52:48.399 --> 01:52:58.799
Uh, and I was having a lot of conversations with a lot of players uh over the last probably two, three years, sort of more or so, when players were sort of coming to the end of their career and leaving football.
01:52:58.959 --> 01:53:20.559
Uh, whether that would be sort of on the phone or in person, but there was a common theme that I was sort of getting at that that that some of the boys were finding it tough, finding it really hard, whether that was that they're missing that that structure, you know, that that that stability and you know, that goal, that end of the week, that training, that camaraderie, that connection, I think that was sort of they'd gone.
01:53:20.799 --> 01:53:24.799
Uh and I and I knew I I knew lads were finding it hard.
01:53:24.879 --> 01:53:33.679
Uh as I did at times, not brutally hard, not it was all mat, it was always manageable, but you have your up days and you have your down days and stuff.
01:53:33.839 --> 01:53:42.399
So I wanted to try and come up with a concept where we could all get involved, sort of try and create a platform where we could help each other to perform at some point.
01:53:42.559 --> 01:53:43.839
So, what's that end goal?
01:53:43.999 --> 01:53:44.799
It's a fight.
01:53:44.959 --> 01:53:46.319
What does that journey look like?
01:53:46.479 --> 01:53:56.799
It's 10 weeks of training in a camp, getting physically fitter, stronger, getting mentally better, uh, and having some structure and some routine, probably being happier.
01:53:57.039 --> 01:54:15.999
Uh, so it was it was trying to reconnect ex-athletes, ex-footballers, where we get together, we had a press conference recently, you know, 10 of the boys with stories for days, you know, nice to catch up with them, played against each other, played with each other, all going on this journey together to ultimately raise money.
01:54:16.079 --> 01:54:18.639
So we're trying to raise half a million pounds within a year.
01:54:18.879 --> 01:54:20.479
We're just short of 150 at a minute.
01:54:20.559 --> 01:54:31.439
We've got an event in the April at the Titanic Hotel on April the 17th, where we've got 10 more players, we hope to raise another 150k, and then we're back.
01:54:31.599 --> 01:54:39.519
Uh we're back at the Grover in September, but we've got Jamie Carragher, Francis Jeffers, uh, and Neil Raddock doing a football Q ⁇ A.
01:54:39.679 --> 01:54:43.279
Carla Keemy is a boxer, Carla Kimmy is a goalkeeper, and he'll be boxing in it.
01:54:43.359 --> 01:54:44.959
We had Paddy Kenny boxing it.
01:54:45.119 --> 01:54:49.919
So we've had a number of internationals that have that have been involved, Premier League players.
01:54:50.239 --> 01:54:53.999
Yeah, I mean we've had we've had a brilliant uptake uh from lads.
01:54:54.159 --> 01:55:09.919
I've been contacted by a number of lads, and I've had to let say I haven't let them down, but I've it's almost like a I've had to say, look, maybe for the next one, because we've you know we've been it's been quite been quite popular in the sense that people get it and people are going, do you know what?
01:55:10.079 --> 01:55:13.199
I do fancy that because I probably need that in my life right now.
01:55:13.519 --> 01:55:14.639
That purpose as well, isn't it?
01:55:14.959 --> 01:55:16.399
Purpose is massive, yeah.
01:55:16.799 --> 01:55:36.399
When you're not working or or you are working, but it's not fulfilling, it's it's just uh you you you you're constantly trying to find ways of satisfying your yourself, and uh it's a bit different for me because I've got four kids, so you know I I'm busy with them, so that's sort of my life.
01:55:36.559 --> 01:55:48.239
Um, and then obviously coaching came alongside that, but but yeah, I I want to I was desperately thinking of something that what can I do?
01:55:48.319 --> 01:55:55.759
Uh golf days last five hours, six hours, bacon butting round the golf beer, gone home, don't see each other again.
01:55:55.919 --> 01:56:02.319
The charity football games last 90 minutes, you'll warm up, you have a beer in a bar, or you don't have a beer in a bar, you just shoot straight off.
01:56:02.479 --> 01:56:14.639
And that connection only lasts a really small period of time, and that sort of performing in front of a crowd, if you're playing in a charity game, is like even though there's probably 500 people there, it was still quite nice, you still feel pressure.
01:56:14.799 --> 01:56:21.439
But now getting in a boxing ring where it's going to be streamed live on talk sport boxing, I've got nearly 400,000 subscribers.
01:56:21.599 --> 01:56:26.479
There's the football world of watching, there's no two ways about it, because I know so many people that watched the last one at the Grover.
01:56:27.039 --> 01:56:32.239
Uh, and then we're potentially uh joining up with a global streaming partner, sports.com.
01:56:32.639 --> 01:56:35.839
So obviously access to Malaysia, Indonesia and stuff like that.
01:56:35.999 --> 01:56:39.999
So, but yeah, look, ultimately, it's about raising money.
01:56:40.319 --> 01:56:51.679
Secondly, to that, it's about uh helping these lads on a journey to to fulfil maybe a lifetime's ambition to get in a ring, maybe a bucket list.
01:56:52.159 --> 01:56:56.239
Uh, but and also it's a it's called a night to remember for a reason.
01:56:56.319 --> 01:57:00.079
We want it to be a special night of fun and entertainment, which is what we've delivered so far.
01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:01.919
So yeah, it's going well, I'm loving it.
01:57:01.999 --> 01:57:06.959
It's keeping me busy and it's uh it's getting me back into seeing players and and everything else.
01:57:07.279 --> 01:57:07.999
It's connection, right?
01:57:08.079 --> 01:57:09.119
So it's it's the connection.
01:57:09.679 --> 01:57:16.639
The biggest thing is connection, it's connecting to other players and getting that kind of that changing room back that you've missed.
01:57:17.439 --> 01:57:20.319
Because you've got a common, you've got c you've got common grounds, haven't you?
01:57:20.479 --> 01:57:27.279
You've got you've got so much in common, you can relate to each other because you just kind of both been there, or you've all been there.
01:57:27.359 --> 01:57:32.559
Yeah, so you understand it, but some it hits some harder than others, is what I found out.
01:57:32.799 --> 01:57:40.159
So, you know, some have been in a real bad place, others less so, but still need it as much as as as the other one does.
01:57:40.319 --> 01:57:49.039
So yeah, I just think it's a really it's a really good way of re-engaging with people and getting people back together and going on a journey, which has been yeah, it's been incredible so far.
01:57:49.199 --> 01:57:50.319
Yeah, I think it's amazing.
01:57:50.559 --> 01:58:00.479
So you're doing something for charity, doing something good, you're hitting your values of connecting with people, it gives players a purpose or something to train towards.
01:58:00.799 --> 01:58:02.319
Because I I struggle with that.
01:58:02.399 --> 01:58:11.279
And if I haven't got since I've finished football, it was like, right, I've got to create I created AstroTuff, which is a fitness business where it could be my own changing room and then move into Liverpool.
01:58:11.519 --> 01:58:17.279
I left that and I was like, right, I need to do some stupid events or something or something stupid to have something to train towards.
01:58:17.439 --> 01:58:19.999
Otherwise, I'm just training for no purpose, I'm training for no reason.
01:58:20.239 --> 01:58:24.639
Yeah, but it's good that you've got that mindset though, because you're not sat at home and you're not doing nothing.
01:58:24.879 --> 01:58:26.319
Because there's an easy way out.
01:58:26.399 --> 01:58:36.799
It's like, oh, world's against me, I've lost this, and I oh I've fallen out of her, or I've fallen out of him, and you know some people find that really hard just to go, right?
01:58:36.879 --> 01:58:40.319
I need to be motivated, I need to come up with something.
01:58:40.479 --> 01:58:49.919
It's not easy, it's really not easy because sometimes when you feel like the world's against you and you've got nowhere to turn, it's tough, which is why you need people around you that are gonna help and support you.
01:58:50.319 --> 01:58:51.439
Purpose is created, right?
01:58:51.519 --> 01:58:53.759
You can create your own purpose.
01:58:53.839 --> 01:58:54.719
So you've done it now.
01:58:54.799 --> 01:59:00.959
You've like, right, I this is what I need, it fulfills my values, which is basically connection, right?
01:59:01.039 --> 01:59:05.439
Yeah, but it connects it's the other values of you want to help people.
01:59:05.679 --> 01:59:15.679
You said that during the end of your career, you wanted to help people, and then it's a bigger, it's kind of a bigger purpose than us as well, like helping the charities that you that you do.
01:59:15.839 --> 01:59:17.199
So yeah, I think it's amazing, mate.
01:59:17.279 --> 01:59:20.639
I think it's really cool, and I I'm looking forward to getting some free tickets to the Titanic.
01:59:21.999 --> 01:59:23.039
I was just thinking that.
01:59:29.919 --> 01:59:30.959
I really appreciate it.
01:59:31.119 --> 01:59:31.679
Thank you so much.
01:59:31.839 --> 01:59:32.559
Anything you want to add?
01:59:33.039 --> 01:59:34.079
No, it's been incredible, mate.
01:59:34.159 --> 01:59:35.759
It's great to see you again after all these years as well.
01:59:35.919 --> 01:59:37.759
I'm glad to see yourself doing so well for yourself.
01:59:37.839 --> 01:59:39.359
So uh yeah, thanks for coming on.
01:59:39.439 --> 01:59:43.199
I know we've chewed you here off, but it's been nearly two hours, so that's nice, it's nice.
01:59:43.279 --> 01:59:43.999
I've really enjoyed it.
01:59:44.079 --> 01:59:44.879
Yeah, thanks for having me.
01:59:45.279 --> 01:59:45.759
Thank you so much.
01:59:46.079 --> 01:59:46.239
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