Performing When It Counts - Inside the Mind of an Elite Performance Psychologist

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Welcome to Between Tubernets, a show dedicated to highlighting Canadian voices.
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Together we're sharing authentic conversations with the people shaping the future of Canada.
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We hope you enjoy the show.
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Dr. Dana Sinclair, welcome to the pod, we're so excited to have you today.
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Are you ready for a conversation between Tubernets?
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Absolutely, I'm looking forward to it.
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In terms of where we wanted to start, I think we just wanted to credentialize you for
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our audience a little bit.
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So you are a performance psychologist, Canadian-based, and we'll go deep into what that means.
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You work with surgeons, with athletes, executives, you've worked with organizations, all sorts
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of sports organizations, MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, what am I missing?
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WNBA, all of the Olympic athletes, basically anyone that needs to perform at the highest
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level when the stakes are high, which is at some point in our life, all of us.
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So so much to learn, I guess in terms of where we wanted to start, can you at the broadest
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kind of level explain to everyone what is a performance psychologist, what do you do
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day-to-day?
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Right.
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Well, performance psychology is sort of a newer area, and what I do day-to-day is really
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my main job is to help people learn to manage their emotions when they feel pressure.
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So most people are doing pretty well in their daily lives, they're pretty successful,
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but I'm talking to people about when things get a little tight, when it's that decisive
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moment, when something's really meaningful, where they need something, or they want something,
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those are the moments that I deal in.
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So I help coach people to better performances.
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And I wanted to ask actually both of you, we were talking about this last night, but
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one is the first time in life that you kind of had the like, oh shit, moment of like
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people really don't perform the same way under pressure when the stakes are high.
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Probably when I was playing on the national field hockey team, and how old were you at
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that point?
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I was 16 when I made the national team, and you start to realize that at sort of the
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higher level competitions, some of your teammates bring it, and they play great, whether
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it's training a regular game or a championship, and other people, they don't quite get to
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their best when the pressure is on.
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That's where I started to notice it, and that made a difference how you approached it
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mentally.
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And for you?
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Well, we talked about this later, and we talked about this, like I didn't even clock
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this for a really long time.
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For me, my first memory was in university, when you start seeing friends give presentations
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and you're like, oh, some people, this is a really strong skill of theirs, and others
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it's not.
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But like, for me, it was great.
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I never thought about signing of this when I was little, like a ballet recital in grade
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three.
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I'll never forget it.
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We all practice the same amount.
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And then my best friend just killed it on stage, and I collapsed.
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And that was it.
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And then I would say like grade four or five, when you started to like hear people needing
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to present in front of the class, it was the first time that I was like, they're like
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crumbling under pressure, and that person's just totally got it.
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So it's like at a young age, it affected, it affected just like my perspective on performance.
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So you kind of figured that out, because it's exams as well, right?
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Exams study.
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Yeah.
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So anybody, no matter who you are, what you do, we all, I guess, fall prey to sort of the
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pressures of the moment sometimes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's definitely happened to me on multiple occasions.
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Oh, we've all, we've all underperformed in certain situations.
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Yeah.
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And I think most of us, when we hear the term high performer, we think about talent, but
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this is one of the things you talk about a lot in your book, which is talent is a bit
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overrated when it comes to performance.
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And you say that assessing talent is one thing, but predicting success is entirely different.
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So how does one go about predicting success, and why is it, you know, equally, if not
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more important than the raw underlying talent?
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So I always say that talent doesn't ensure success.
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It's the mindset or the mental approach.
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Now, of course, you know, you have to have the basic talent if you are trying to succeed.
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So you have to know the highest levels, right, which is who you're dealing with.
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Right.
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I mean, I can't go do a piano recital if I don't know how to play the piano, right?
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So having the skills obviously is the base, but it's how you use those when the pressure
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is on that matters.
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So you know, I know a lot of people who are extremely talented, but they sort of flamed
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out in their careers because they just couldn't get that talent to work for them.
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So for example, we'll talk hockey, I guess, say NHL.
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So I do a lot of draft assessments for a lot of the professional teams.
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I remember going into one draft, and it was for, actually, I'll tell you, it was for
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the Maple Leafs a long time ago, and they loved this guy.
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He was a super talent.
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He had the shot, he had the skating, he had all of these things, but the behavioral side
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of his assessment, he was a bit of a flag.
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The scouts didn't want to hear it.
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They fell in love with this guy, which they always do, and they thought, no, he's going
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to be a franchise player now.
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And what were the flags?
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Yeah.
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Right.
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What were the flags?
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Okay.
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So the flags to me are undisciplined.
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Can't see.
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This one is so important.
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It is.
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Can't see other people's points of view.
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Doesn't listen very well, gets overly reactive, very good, sort of a snap dragon.
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When the pressure is on, sort of backs off in terms of his role and his responsibilities
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on the ice, you know, won't go into the corners, won't stay in front of the night because
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it's getting rough, and, you know, not really working hard in practice, not working
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on us.
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These types of things, they took him anyway, and he's still a great player, and he did
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improve over time, but they ended up trading him, and he got traded around the league because
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he just couldn't make his skills work for him because of the behavioral side.
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So when you're working with whether, I mean, top performing athletes or executives at
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a very high level or anyone else, and you're working with them to sort of start to identify
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their weak spots, how honest are people about where they're coming short or why they're
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coming short?
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How much of it is, is even aware, because, like, for me, I'm like, okay, there's one
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piece of me being willing to acknowledge it to people and work on my issues, but sometimes
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you think the wrong thing is the cause of very true performance, very true.
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It's a mix of like 15 different things, and you don't know the few areas that are actually
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going to have the disproportionate, like, I think we're like really good at evaluating
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other people, and it's much easier for us to point out and see the issues with others,
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and then we think about ourselves, and we're not as aware.
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So I'm curious, yeah, when you work with others, like, are they reflective enough to identify
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and how, how do they identify?
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Well, short answer, some are some art.
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So, say, I'm thinking of an NBA draft that I was in a hotel room interviewing people
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as they came in every half an hour, and some people, you know, they would fill out a
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form for me, and I could know right away, oh, that person is being very honest, and other
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people, you look at it, and you start thinking, oh, they're really trying to fake me out,
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which is what they're trying to do.
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They're trying to do a job.
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And is it because their scores are just, like, too perfect?
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Some of it's too perfect, or it's all over the place, and they don't match up.
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Oh.
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So there's, like, incongruencies.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So that's why you do the interview, because you can't just go off of a form for anybody.
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Yeah.
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You have to talk it through and ask some questions and see what they're really like.
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So, most people, though, are fairly straightforward, because it's just a conversation, and I'm not
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asking anything untoward, it's just trying to get them to know them in 15 minutes, so
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it is kind of fun.
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And do you do it multiple times over the course of working with them, because the one thing
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that comes to mind for me is all of these, like, personality tests, we were just talking
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about a values test last night.
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My answers can change depending on, like, the state I'm in in that moment, and I'm feeling
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about myself, like, would you respond differently if you're going through something at home, or
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you just performed really well versus you just performed poorly the day before, and, like,
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how do you account or factor for those fluctuations?
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There are nuances, of course, depending on what's going on.
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But when I'm doing an assessment, really, the core of it doesn't change.
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Yeah.
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After 16, 17, 18, it's not changing.
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You can improve.
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You can change your behavior in certain situations for certain periods of time, but you're
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not going to change your personality.
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Yeah.
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So it really is just a matter of learning what does get in the way, and getting around
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that.
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And what is the process?
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Yeah.
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Step one, you have these introductory conversations, you do this questionnaire, you start to identify
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the buckets of opportunity, and then where, where from there?
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How does that have to agree with the person on, okay, what's making you thrive?
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And what are the things that are really derailing your performance, because the people that I work
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with, either, like, people always think, oh, your clients all have problems or issues.
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No, they don't.
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I do work with people who either have a challenge that they want to overcome, or they just think
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they can be a little bit better, or they want to be better.
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We all want to be better.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you're working with high performing successful people, they're going to be demanding
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of themselves, right?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And they are coming to me because they're not doing something that they know they can
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do.
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And there's something that they're just not aware of going back to what you were saying
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about, you know, people being reflective, or not necessarily accurate in terms of this
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self-assessment.
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Yeah.
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And it's not because people are trying to say, fake me out or fake themselves, or they just
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they don't know.
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Mm-hmm.
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I wanted to segue just quickly, because I forgot, we didn't really talk about the book
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yet, but you have a book where you've written all of your incredible learnings and lessons.
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A big portion of the first part of the book is the fact that there's a lot of myths to
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performance.
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Yes.
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And one of the core ones being that confidence is overrated, extremely overrated.
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Can you unpack this one for me just a little bit?
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So I think a lot of people move through this world still thinking that they need to be
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a degree of confidence to execute well.
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It's nice, it's nice to feel confident, and I want people to feel confident, but so many
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people get caught up in, I cannot perform it unless I am confident, because don't you guys
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always hear, oh, you've just got to trust yourself, you've got to believe in yourself,
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it's going to happen.
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Don't think it'll just, you know, just believe in, it's all going to unfold for you.
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And I think, oh, my goodness, confidence is such an unreliable strategy to go with, because
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have you not ever felt really good about going into something and then kind of bombed?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And vice versa.
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So, leading to healing, like happiness, you know, it like abs and flows, and so to your
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point, it's not something that you can safely rely on to ensure that consistent performance.
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It's a feeling, feelings, you know, feelings are out there, and confidence is about feeling,
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whereas performing is about what you're doing, so you can't tell me that if you've got
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some skills and some knowledge in your job, oh, I can't execute that if I'm not feeling
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very confident today.
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No, you have to be able to shift over onto what to do, no matter how you're feeling,
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and that those people who can get over their feelings or push it aside for the moment
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and focus on what to do, they become consistently good at what they do.
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And that's really hard to do.
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It's really hard to isolate your emotions.
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I, like, I feel like for me, that's my hardest thing.
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So what are some tactics that people can use to isolate or kind of put in a nice little
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box for that to us?
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However, they're feeling whether it's sadness, whether it's grief, anxiety, stress, so
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that they can show up in the same way and deliver in the same way every single time.
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You're successful people.
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Okay, wonderful.
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I wouldn't bother you at all with anything unless you wanted to talk about, okay, certain
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moments that cause you stress that you get too tense and because tension throws us all
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off.
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And if your tension gets too high, like on a scale of one to ten, if it's six, okay,
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seven, eight, nine, you're not going to be thinking as clearly and you're not going
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to be focused on what you're doing, right?
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So you have to first pick out the situation or two or three that bother you that you know,
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oh, here we go.
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Like I can feel palm sweaty and like heartbeat racing a little bit.
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Yeah, I feel like that one has a few of those.
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Well, is it the tell tell science that it's coming on or are you talking about the actual
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triggers that cause the getting to the triggers?
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I'm talking first of all, what situations do you get sweaty palms?
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Mine is straight up the only thing that will throw me off in a high stress environment is
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if I start feeling like a vibe from someone that they aren't impressed or they don't like
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me or there's like a personal misalignment, I feel like I'm very in tune to people's energies.
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And if I start getting a weird energy, if they didn't say anything, it would totally throw
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off my presentation.
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You're so lucky that that doesn't matter.
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But it doesn't matter like if someone's throwing hard questions, I mean, no problem.
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But like if I sense something is off on a personal level with who I'm speaking to, it
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like totally derails.
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You know, one on one thing or in a group, it could even be like on like virtually.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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If you think that they are like a disconnect critical of you, I'll give an example.
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So like one person that I was working with for a short period of time, I was doing pitches
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and she was joining these pitches with me.
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And I kind of got the sense that she wasn't on board with me being at this company and
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maybe wasn't my biggest fan.
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And so when she would be on these calls, my performance would tank.
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So your mind set, your focus would drift on over to all the hotspots, all the worries
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sort of.
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Yeah.
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And I would be like, these were virtual.
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So I would be like watching her facial expressions to see how she was reacting.
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Okay.
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So you were, you got, I guess, lost some of your focus because you were busy thinking
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about what is she thinking, what's happening, how am I doing here?
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What's the result?
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What do you think I'm doing?
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Yeah.
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Versus like just being authentically myself and being able to like connect with that person
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in a way that I approach sales.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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But it took you away from your usual, bang up job.
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Yes.
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Right.
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So she didn't necessarily do anything.
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Mm-hmm.
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Just her being.
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Right.
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But it's still my reaction.
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Like I know it all falls on me, right?
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Like no one.
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Yeah.
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But identifying what those sort of hotspots are, which one would be if you think someone's
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being critical of you, or however you wouldn't say it, because there's a whole, or like
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unconvinced or like not bought it.
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And yeah.
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Right.
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Or just, she's, yeah, she's not thinking that you're good.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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And I feel like that's one that a lot of people have.
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Maybe that's one that a lot of people have.
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Yeah.
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I always say to Germana, like we've had this conversation of what would be the worst thing
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that someone could say or like describe you as if you weren't there in one game.
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Very different answers.
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But for me, it would be someone being like, yeah, like I actually don't think Sam's that
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smart.
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Like she's not that impressive.
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I would say that, that answer is the same.
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You said like is not well-informed, which is like, I don't, yeah, I don't care if people
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think.
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Yeah.
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Or to call me like a bitch, someone could say I'm rude, someone could say I'm annoying,
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someone could say I'm crazy.
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Don't care.
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Right.
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But if someone says you're not informed.
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If it's like something tied to my knowledge and my intelligence, I would be like, so
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I would be surprised.
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So that gets into sort of that kicks off some self-doubt.
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But there's like connections there to what we're talking about with this example, which
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is like someone not, someone being critical of me or not thinking that I have that skill
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or knowledge.
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But they're not can you, they're not can you sideways.
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Yeah.
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And then you are suddenly doubting yourself, you're doubting yourself, so you're thinking
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about all of this and you're not doing what you would normally do in that what sales
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situation.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's so funny.
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So I'm impacted by everything that Sam just said plus the precursor.
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So I don't know.
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I'm going to share this just because I don't know if anyone else relates.
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Like early in my career, I would say it's gotten better, but early 20's like entering my
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first job any day before a big meeting, a big workshop, a big presentation, whether
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it was to the board to like a steer go to executives and an organization.
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It was the night before crippling.
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I could not I was so singular focused like all I could think about was the presentation
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which my brain was like is a threat.
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So it's like until that threat is neutralized, nothing else got done in my life.
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I had to Uber Eats.
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I couldn't make dinner.
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I couldn't call friends and family.
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I couldn't do laundry like I had nothing functioned every hour up until sleep was prep
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and that's really high tension through the roof next morning.
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And this is how I know you don't need to be confident to knock it out of the park tension
333
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through the roof.
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I am feeling awful presentation comes, kill it, amazing good outcome.
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And that was that cycle was on repeat most years in my early 20's for and it was like
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I know it was crippling and it's I would consider like I guess it's like performance anxiety
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to a degree.
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Of course.
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And some people have it, but some people like Sam don't until you had that trigger of
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someone's potentially judging you versus for me, the trigger was before the event even
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happened.
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It would just be like it's gotten better because I think with reps and like time and
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I don't know.
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We've grown a lot as people.
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But it was I don't know if other people in their early 20's feel it as they enter the
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workplace, but like crippling.
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And then they think that they can't they have to keep this stress going otherwise they're
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not prepared.
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Yes.
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Right.
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Yes.
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This means that I'm doing the most I can and then I'm prepared to do this rather than figuring
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out maybe how to soften that a little so it's not so stressful for so long.
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And that's where the skills come in.
355
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But again, everybody's got a situation that they are many well right that they feel
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I you know what, maybe I should figure out how to get around this a little bit in your
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mid 20's you end up having like 10 of these a week like five years, especially the
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whole thing.
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It's not like a quarterly event.
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There's no world where I think you pop it's like destabilized leading up to this event.
361
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So like talk us through an exercise of how we could put together routines.
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I think in these two are different examples, one scenario where it's before the high stress
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moment and the routine or structures you set up leading up to it.
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And then for me, what do you do in the moment to like recenter yourself when things have
365
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gone?
366
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.160
All right.
367
00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:16.160
Right.
368
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.160
Well, you do have to get a plan.
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00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.160
I'll take it back.
370
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.720
It's just it's a bit of a process, right?
371
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:26.000
But again, it's simple and it doesn't take long to put it into action.
372
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:31.560
So anybody say reading how to do it in here, they can make it work right away.
373
00:20:31.560 --> 00:20:34.880
I mean, that's athletes have to have to do it right away.
374
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:40.720
And again, they are adjusting their mindset and their approach, not their skill.
375
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:41.720
Right?
376
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:48.320
They're not learning how to do a better wrist shot right then and that they're learning
377
00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:52.280
to think it through so they can actually get that wrist shot off.
378
00:20:52.280 --> 00:20:53.280
Right.
379
00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:54.280
Right.
380
00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:56.320
So like first up is like an awareness of mindfulness?
381
00:20:56.320 --> 00:21:00.440
Well, first up is, okay, what does mess you up?
382
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:01.440
Really what does?
383
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.320
Is it being criticized?
384
00:21:04.320 --> 00:21:06.920
Is it people not thinking you sound smart?
385
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:07.920
Right.
386
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.040
And again, I'm just going to give you a list of others too.
387
00:21:11.040 --> 00:21:15.760
So really everyone, like if I output a list in front of people, because it's a lot easier
388
00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:17.760
sometimes for them to just check, check, check, check.
389
00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:19.080
And then they start freaking out.
390
00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:21.320
There's two men checking off two men and like, don't worry about it.
391
00:21:21.320 --> 00:21:22.320
We're all getting them up.
392
00:21:22.320 --> 00:21:23.320
All of these things.
393
00:21:23.320 --> 00:21:24.320
Yeah.
394
00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:25.320
We're going to come up with your top two or three.
395
00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:26.320
So don't worry about it.
396
00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:29.920
Because once you come up with the top two or three, the other ten, it's probably a
397
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:30.920
byproduct.
398
00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:32.680
And they don't really matter anyway.
399
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:34.360
You're not really working about it.
400
00:21:34.360 --> 00:21:37.680
But one, everybody has to check off as results outcome.
401
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.680
How am I doing?
402
00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.240
Because everyone's thinking about how they're doing, not what they're doing.
403
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.880
And that's the big mistake.
404
00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:50.960
It's ultimately, if you can get calm-ish in the moment and shift your mind space onto
405
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.920
what to do, you're good.
406
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:58.680
But to get there, you have to, again, figure out, is it my expectations of myself?
407
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.320
Is it, I mean, you really have to sort of nail down what gets in the ways.
408
00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:04.800
Yeah, the fear of about outcome, the fear of failure.
409
00:22:04.800 --> 00:22:05.800
Fear of failure.
410
00:22:05.800 --> 00:22:07.600
Is it a lack of reassurance?
411
00:22:07.600 --> 00:22:12.440
Is it, if someone's being confrontational, is it my own negative self-talk?
412
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:19.760
Is it like, there's a whole bunch, but you do have to be really honest with yourself
413
00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:21.640
because people love to skip that step.
414
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:22.640
That's first step.
415
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:23.640
Okay.
416
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:24.640
So, tactically.
417
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:31.000
It's clearly the fact that I am either one concerned that I'm going to get criticized
418
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:36.240
or to that someone is not going to think I'm made competent.
419
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:39.720
So if those are the, let me ask, why would they not think you're competent?
420
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.320
So we all, we overplay it.
421
00:22:41.320 --> 00:22:42.320
We make stuff up.
422
00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:47.280
And in that hotspot zone that I'm talking about, that distraction zone, the check-off zone,
423
00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:53.640
we get in there and we start to just, it's like Disneyland and there's made up stuff
424
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:59.120
all over the place because if I look at your life, at your facts, why would anybody
425
00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:00.120
think you're incompetent?
426
00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:01.120
Okay.
427
00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:07.120
So during presentations, if someone is giving like a, this smug side, smirk, like the side
428
00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:12.000
smile, do you know what I'm talking about, like if I start seeing that when someone,
429
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:19.040
like during a presentation, I'll be like, oh, they are, like they're not buying what
430
00:23:19.040 --> 00:23:20.040
I'm saying right now.
431
00:23:20.040 --> 00:23:24.920
Or it could have something to do with something else it is not to do with you, right?
432
00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:28.120
But we go in there and think, take everything personally.
433
00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:29.120
Yes.
434
00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:30.120
Yeah.
435
00:23:30.120 --> 00:23:32.960
It's really, really high when you're also like feeling even a smidge unprepared because
436
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:38.200
I think there's also, there's no like, especially in business, there's no end to a level
437
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:39.200
of preparedness.
438
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:42.160
You can be, or like, how well-read you need to be able to explain anything, how much you
439
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.160
can understand that.
440
00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:44.160
Yeah.
441
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.160
Anything.
442
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:46.160
That it's not even like been that.
443
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:49.000
So it's not, so how do you think people would find you incompetent?
444
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:50.000
I don't know.
445
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.000
I don't know.
446
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.000
I don't know.
447
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.760
I feel like I need to take this to my therapist now.
448
00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:59.800
No, but you see, when we're talking about it, you might realize, oh, I actually am competent.
449
00:23:59.800 --> 00:24:02.000
Because I'm never good enough for myself, maybe.
450
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.000
I don't know.
451
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.000
Well, it's perfectionism.
452
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:05.000
Yeah.
453
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.800
And so people fall prey really bad, which is, to me, with my clients, I'm always talking
454
00:24:09.800 --> 00:24:11.320
about perfectionism.
455
00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:15.080
And it's a, trying to be perfect is a script profilier.
456
00:24:15.080 --> 00:24:16.080
Yeah.
457
00:24:16.080 --> 00:24:17.520
Because it's unattainable.
458
00:24:17.520 --> 00:24:20.880
When I unpacked it with her, she's like, it's like, it's our therapist, it's anxiety
459
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:22.360
with a cloak.
460
00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:25.080
That's what she, because she's like, your perfectionism is anxiety with a cloak.
461
00:24:25.080 --> 00:24:26.080
Yeah.
462
00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:27.080
Right.
463
00:24:27.080 --> 00:24:32.200
Because like, all of these things are, are ways that we sabotage ourselves to try to control
464
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:38.720
our tension or anxiety about something meaningful, again, pressure situations, again, most
465
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.360
of the time just fine, you know?
466
00:24:41.360 --> 00:24:48.280
But that's why I like people to really think about when they need the skills, what is going
467
00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:52.400
on in their lives, that they're going to bump up against, that's going to make them
468
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:53.400
think, oh no.
469
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.400
Yeah.
470
00:24:54.400 --> 00:25:00.680
Where do you see involved parents with kids that are performing under pressure, whether
471
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:07.520
it's in school, whether it's in sports, show up as a positive, like net positive for
472
00:25:07.520 --> 00:25:13.120
the kids versus where you see it, causing more harm.
473
00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:18.840
There are lots of good parents out there, of course, of course, most are well-intentioned.
474
00:25:18.840 --> 00:25:19.840
Yeah.
475
00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:20.840
Well-intentioned, yes.
476
00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:29.120
And the good ones, they listen to their kid, they will actually get involved with their
477
00:25:29.120 --> 00:25:33.800
kids' activities by asking how the kid feels.
478
00:25:33.800 --> 00:25:35.120
What do you think?
479
00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:36.320
What do you want to do?
480
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.200
No, we're not talking about ten years, we're talking about people who have a bit more
481
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:46.720
agency, older kids, but the parents talk it through with them and actually will ask them
482
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.760
as opposed to in there telling them what to do all the time.
483
00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:54.760
Those are the best helpers, I think.
484
00:25:54.760 --> 00:26:03.840
There are so many parents that I see in performance situations, whether it's music, arts, sports,
485
00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:07.720
whatever, school, who just need to back off.
486
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:08.720
They are-
487
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:09.720
Not a copy of your parents?
488
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.480
By kerosene living through these kids, they want this, they want that.
489
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:20.040
I mean, I've had kids come in who will be so upset, you know, with their father, say,
490
00:26:20.040 --> 00:26:27.480
like girls, it doesn't matter, and I say a tennis example, and as kid was 12, well, can
491
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:28.880
you beat your dad?
492
00:26:29.520 --> 00:26:31.360
Well, yeah, I've been beating for two years.
493
00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:40.040
So the dad can't play tennis at this 12-year-old's level yet feels that it's incumbent upon him
494
00:26:40.040 --> 00:26:44.360
to start haranging him about what he's got to do and what he's doing wrong, and it's
495
00:26:44.360 --> 00:26:45.360
just ridiculous.
496
00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:51.120
Yeah, it's really tough because I feel like children don't fear pressure, but when that
497
00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:54.920
message is modeled by parents, where it's like pressure is a threat, like you have to
498
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:59.760
do this or else, like you must, like this is your one opportunity, but it's like modeled
499
00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:04.280
in an aggressive behavior, and then just naturally you end up starting to, like, as you get older,
500
00:27:04.280 --> 00:27:05.960
you have that in the back of your head, isn't it?
501
00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.160
No, but that's a very real experience, no.
502
00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:17.800
As people progress up the, I guess, performance ladder, you do start to think more about failing
503
00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:23.560
and success and what that means, and you can't help but feel pressure as you get older
504
00:27:23.560 --> 00:27:24.560
and get better.
505
00:27:24.560 --> 00:27:25.560
Yeah.
506
00:27:25.560 --> 00:27:28.280
But it's, nobody ever tells us how to get around it.
507
00:27:28.280 --> 00:27:29.280
Yeah.
508
00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:32.720
It's just you sort of thrown in there and hope for the best, and we don't learn the mental
509
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.520
skills to just chill, think about the right things, keep going.
510
00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:38.520
Yeah.
511
00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:39.520
Evaluate yourself after.
512
00:27:39.520 --> 00:27:45.760
When we were prepping for this, we were talking about parents letting their kids fail
513
00:27:45.760 --> 00:27:51.440
at young ages, and the importance of that and building resilience, and Germana and I,
514
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:57.280
it sounds like we had very different experiences when it came to the willingness of our parents
515
00:27:57.280 --> 00:28:02.160
to let us fail, and then when we failed what their responses were.
516
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:07.760
And so from your perspective, what do you think, like, the healthy balances for parents?
517
00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:11.400
Like, you obviously want to guide, and you want to set your kid up for a success.
518
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:12.400
Sure.
519
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:14.760
Also, you can't prevent failure for them.
520
00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:16.760
You can't prevent them from losing.
521
00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:20.240
You can't protect them from losing or doing a poor job.
522
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.800
And I think the micro-failures end up supporting the nervous system's development of then how
523
00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:27.040
you deal with pressure and cope later in life.
524
00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:31.320
Like, I think that's, you need recoverable failures early on in life, is my point of view
525
00:28:31.320 --> 00:28:32.320
at this point.
526
00:28:32.320 --> 00:28:33.320
Yeah.
527
00:28:33.320 --> 00:28:35.680
And you know, we all fail, and we're going to fail.
528
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:39.640
And I feel like that gets into, like, resiliency, too.
529
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:47.160
When I think about the resilience that I've built over the years, it's come from increasing
530
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:52.760
the, or decreasing the recovery period it takes from, like, a setback or failure to
531
00:28:52.760 --> 00:28:58.000
getting back up versus, like, the first couple of times, especially if you're a perfectionist.
532
00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:59.000
It's debilitating, right?
533
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.000
And you sit there and you, like, sulk in the failure, and you start giving yourself
534
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.000
the narrative of, I'm not capable.
535
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.000
I can't do this.
536
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:07.000
I'm no good.
537
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:08.000
I'm no good.
538
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.280
And then, really, time you start to build up whatever it is.
539
00:29:11.280 --> 00:29:17.600
The muscles, the skills, the behaviors that you know you can do to, like, get back out
540
00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:18.600
of that.
541
00:29:18.600 --> 00:29:19.600
To focus on the right now.
542
00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:22.680
Yeah, I also think what's changed a lot for me, and I don't know if everyone now thinks
543
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:28.520
this way, but to me, consistent performance or people that are the most consistent performers,
544
00:29:28.520 --> 00:29:32.320
whether it's a success or a failure, they do not tie that to identity.
545
00:29:32.320 --> 00:29:33.760
It is just a data point.
546
00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:34.760
It is not a verdict.
547
00:29:34.760 --> 00:29:39.160
So that way, when you have a failure, it doesn't, like, totally collapse your identity.
548
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.200
And then when you have a success, you're not, like, overinflating and giving yourself,
549
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.520
like, props went, like, for life when that's really not what's deserving.
550
00:29:46.520 --> 00:29:51.160
So it's kind of like successes and failures are data points at points in time and, like,
551
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:54.280
reflections of, like, you at that place, but it's not your whole identity.
552
00:29:54.280 --> 00:29:57.800
So either way, you should not be collapsing or overinflating.
553
00:29:57.800 --> 00:29:59.000
At least that's what I tell myself now.
554
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:00.000
I don't know.
555
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.600
You've got to do works for you too.
556
00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:02.600
Yeah.
557
00:30:02.600 --> 00:30:03.600
Yeah.
558
00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:05.920
I love people to celebrate their good bits in this success.
559
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:06.920
Celebrate for sure.
560
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:12.040
It's more or so, like, it's a point in time, like, just because I succeeded at something
561
00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:16.120
a week ago, like, does not necessarily mean that same situation.
562
00:30:16.120 --> 00:30:21.080
Let's talk about this because I think that that data point is fabulous and you better
563
00:30:21.080 --> 00:30:26.080
write it down and have it on your fax list because when you go into something the next
564
00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:30.920
week, you want to pull that out and say, Hey, I did that, did that, this, okay.
565
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:31.920
You know what?
566
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.920
The person on here is kind of capable.
567
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:34.920
Yeah.
568
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:35.920
Oh, that's actually pretty good.
569
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:42.000
Not only does that let you, I guess, relive, okay, that was a check mark.
570
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.000
That was good.
571
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:47.600
It helps calm you down because you know you've done it and you would like to try to.
572
00:30:47.600 --> 00:30:48.600
Yeah.
573
00:30:48.600 --> 00:30:49.600
For sure.
574
00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:50.600
It's a track record there.
575
00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:53.440
Like, data points of confidence too, right?
576
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:54.920
So I love all the good stuff.
577
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:57.160
I want people to pay more attention to their good stuff.
578
00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:58.160
Yeah.
579
00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.160
I love your fax.
580
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:00.160
Yeah.
581
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:01.160
And we have good track records.
582
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.680
Like, we do lean on that a lot, but I still just don't love it.
583
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:08.880
And maybe it's because of the way that I grew up where in my household's achievement and
584
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.880
like being the best was overvalued.
585
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:12.280
So I had to work extra hard.
586
00:31:12.280 --> 00:31:16.600
I feel like in my 20s, remove that from being the part of my identity so that my identity
587
00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:20.560
is not very, very tied to, are you performing very, very well?
588
00:31:20.560 --> 00:31:22.280
Like, you have to be the best or else.
589
00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:27.400
If you, if you got home with the, if you came home with like a 94% on an exam, what
590
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:28.400
would your parents have said?
591
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.160
And then I'll share what, what did the other kids get?
592
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.520
Is that 94 like in the top, then the bottom quartile of the classic?
593
00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:37.920
If everyone got 98 and you got a 94, you might as well have failed.
594
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.920
For example.
595
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:43.080
So for me, with my parents, the question would have been, was this the best that you could
596
00:31:43.080 --> 00:31:44.080
do?
597
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:46.880
And if I said yes, they were happy.
598
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.120
And if I said no, there are these questions I actually studied for and I should have done
599
00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:54.160
better, they would not be happy with me.
600
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.160
Right.
601
00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:02.400
So it was always dependent on my own self evaluation of my capability and my readiness
602
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:03.400
in that moment.
603
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:07.120
What did your parents do, like, like, like, for work?
604
00:32:07.120 --> 00:32:15.400
Yeah, if they, if they expected 98% well, it's more so I would say, um, my parents immigrated
605
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:16.400
to Canada.
606
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:20.720
There's always a little bit of that, like, and I've said this in another pod, I left everything
607
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:21.720
behind for you.
608
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:22.720
I see.
609
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:24.760
And I also come here a little bit.
610
00:32:24.760 --> 00:32:31.040
So it's, yeah, they expected a lot was, is that, but it's in many ways I'm so thankful
611
00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:32.040
because I do.
612
00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:36.840
And your brother, I'm like, both, like, wonderfully human, great value system, very hard
613
00:32:36.840 --> 00:32:37.840
work, very hard work.
614
00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:38.840
Very successful.
615
00:32:38.840 --> 00:32:42.320
And I tribute, yeah, to my parents, it was pressure, but it was good pressure in many
616
00:32:42.320 --> 00:32:43.320
ways.
617
00:32:43.320 --> 00:32:48.080
So they brought, they had a certain performance culture, yeah, in your house, your parents
618
00:32:48.080 --> 00:32:51.280
created that and that they gave to you.
619
00:32:51.280 --> 00:32:52.280
Yeah.
620
00:32:52.280 --> 00:32:55.280
I'm so, so thankful, but I know there's also, I'm sure there's stories where it doesn't
621
00:32:55.280 --> 00:32:56.280
go that way.
622
00:32:56.280 --> 00:33:01.840
And your mom was, your mom was a teacher and your dad was, he was in engineering.
623
00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:02.840
Right.
624
00:33:02.840 --> 00:33:03.840
Okay.
625
00:33:03.840 --> 00:33:04.840
Yeah.
626
00:33:04.840 --> 00:33:05.840
And then my parents were both entrepreneurs.
627
00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:06.840
Okay.
628
00:33:06.840 --> 00:33:07.840
Yeah.
629
00:33:07.840 --> 00:33:08.840
Right.
630
00:33:08.840 --> 00:33:09.840
Okay.
631
00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:10.840
Yeah.
632
00:33:10.840 --> 00:33:11.840
Different, different performance cultures in the houses, right?
633
00:33:11.840 --> 00:33:12.840
Yeah.
634
00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:13.840
Crazy parenting.
635
00:33:13.840 --> 00:33:17.680
And well, what, what have you, like, because you're in this space and you have two daughters,
636
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:20.760
like, what have you left with them in terms of wisdom?
637
00:33:20.760 --> 00:33:25.080
Like, how do you get, do they get, like, side of field, Dana at home?
638
00:33:25.080 --> 00:33:26.080
Yeah.
639
00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:27.480
They, they do at times, for sure.
640
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:28.480
Yeah.
641
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.280
I mean, I think they're great.
642
00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:37.520
And I think, Jim and I have done a really good job, but of course, they sometimes look
643
00:33:37.520 --> 00:33:38.520
at me.
644
00:33:38.520 --> 00:33:39.520
It's like, yeah.
645
00:33:39.520 --> 00:33:40.520
Okay, mom.
646
00:33:40.520 --> 00:33:41.520
Like, okay.
647
00:33:41.520 --> 00:33:42.520
Got it.
648
00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:43.520
I know, I know.
649
00:33:43.520 --> 00:33:47.720
So I will, you know, if somebody's getting anxious or, you know, we'll talk through, talk
650
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:48.720
it through.
651
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:54.960
And usually it works out pretty well, but sometimes I do get side-eye, you know, side-eye.
652
00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:01.640
But what I'm trying to teach them is, no matter what, you're going to have, sometimes
653
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:08.640
when you freak out and some things that go wrong, one, if you're going into a stressful
654
00:34:08.640 --> 00:34:13.640
situation, be ready, be ready to try to keep the tension under control.
655
00:34:13.640 --> 00:34:20.320
Don't let the anxieties run away and be ready to stay, I guess, connected to what you need
656
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:23.360
to do to make that go a little bit better.
657
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:24.360
And then that's all you can do.
658
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:25.360
Okay.
659
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.400
There are a lot of people who, public speaking is a fear of their, or sure, so when most
660
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:38.280
common ones, when people get up on stage, and they are nervous, they are having a hard
661
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:48.480
time getting calm, getting focused, speaking their words, what are a couple of kind of standard
662
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.280
tricks that people can use?
663
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:53.160
Number one, you've got to slow down.
664
00:34:53.160 --> 00:34:54.680
You've got to assess how goofy it is.
665
00:34:54.680 --> 00:34:57.520
So many people speed up when they're nervous, getting fuzzies.
666
00:34:57.520 --> 00:34:58.520
We all do.
667
00:34:58.520 --> 00:34:59.520
Yeah.
668
00:34:59.520 --> 00:35:03.040
It's when the tension rises when we speed up, and then we can't think.
669
00:35:03.040 --> 00:35:04.280
And why do we do that?
670
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:10.560
Is it to, like, fill the nervous energy or anxiety and you're trying to quell the anxiety,
671
00:35:10.560 --> 00:35:11.560
right?
672
00:35:11.560 --> 00:35:12.560
Yeah.
673
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:15.840
So, or you just haven't thought about it, you're just rolling with whatever's coming
674
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:16.840
out.
675
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.720
That pace is going and whatever your personality is, you just roll with it.
676
00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:26.880
It's you go back to your default, right, which is brushing, speaking fast.
677
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.960
Maybe some people do the opposite, right?
678
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:29.960
Yeah.
679
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:31.760
Some people freeze, whatever.
680
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.760
Okay.
681
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:33.760
So calming.
682
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:34.760
You've got blowing yourself down.
683
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:35.760
A lot to breathe.
684
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.560
It's, it's breathing.
685
00:35:37.560 --> 00:35:44.200
Even something as simple as a couple of long slow outpress through nose or mouth.
686
00:35:44.200 --> 00:35:45.200
I say nose.
687
00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:46.200
Okay.
688
00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:48.280
Like I've heard like four seconds and eight seconds out.
689
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:53.400
That's another way to do it, but you don't have time necessarily to do that on your stage.
690
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:54.400
Hold on.
691
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:55.400
I'm here right back.
692
00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:56.400
Let me do my breath.
693
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.400
I'm going to do team breathwork.
694
00:35:57.400 --> 00:35:59.680
Let's start the session there.
695
00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:00.680
And that's good before.
696
00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:01.680
Yeah.
697
00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:02.680
Three step on state.
698
00:36:02.680 --> 00:36:03.680
Yeah.
699
00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:04.680
For sure.
700
00:36:04.680 --> 00:36:05.680
No, the whole audience.
701
00:36:05.680 --> 00:36:06.680
Everyone's doing breathwork together.
702
00:36:06.680 --> 00:36:07.680
Right.
703
00:36:07.680 --> 00:36:08.680
Okay.
704
00:36:08.680 --> 00:36:09.680
Well, it's going to be worse.
705
00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:10.680
You go to your strategy.
706
00:36:11.680 --> 00:36:19.040
And exhale and longer really is amazing to help quickly and help reset your nervous system.
707
00:36:19.040 --> 00:36:21.800
Slowing down allows you to think.
708
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:26.840
Because if you have some control over that, then you can start performing more to your
709
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:27.840
level.
710
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.760
Like if you don't have any, if you can't self-soothe to a certain degree, it's going
711
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:34.160
to be tough.
712
00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:35.160
Yeah.
713
00:36:35.160 --> 00:36:36.160
There I know.
714
00:36:36.160 --> 00:36:37.160
In tight situations.
715
00:36:37.160 --> 00:36:39.000
So that's the number one thing.
716
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:40.920
And you have to kind of practice it.
717
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.600
But again, say my players, they'll do it between plays.
718
00:36:44.600 --> 00:36:51.440
Like I've got NFL guys who like quarterback who, okay, before, like how it'll break,
719
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:55.800
okay, boom, and he's got to calm down so that he can actually go through his progression
720
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:56.800
so he can think.
721
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:57.800
It's not about the skill.
722
00:36:57.800 --> 00:36:58.800
It's not about throwing the ball.
723
00:36:58.800 --> 00:36:59.800
It's the skills there.
724
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:00.800
Yeah.
725
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:01.800
Yeah.
726
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:02.800
Yeah.
727
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:06.200
So we've got to be able to breathe like on stage, right?
728
00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:10.320
And then the, you've got to have your cues ready, like what am I doing?
729
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.560
Like, okay, I see that person giving me a problem there or this person looks bored or
730
00:37:15.560 --> 00:37:18.520
on their phone or whatever, how rude.
731
00:37:18.520 --> 00:37:25.800
You've got to quickly shift away from that onto what you're trying to say.
732
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:28.640
Some people, they just need to focus on one person.
733
00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:33.160
Some people need to look at the back, say not make eye contact with people.
734
00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:37.080
Some people need to speak up, get their shoulders out.
735
00:37:37.080 --> 00:37:38.080
It depends.
736
00:37:38.080 --> 00:37:42.600
It's good to think about it beforehand, but breathing and shifting your head.
737
00:37:42.600 --> 00:37:43.600
What am I seeing?
738
00:37:43.600 --> 00:37:44.800
What am I supposed to be saying?
739
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:45.800
What's the topic?
740
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:46.800
What's the topic?
741
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:47.800
What's the bullet point?
742
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.640
That's where you have to go and muddle your way through that way.
743
00:37:50.640 --> 00:37:51.640
But it's, it works.
744
00:37:51.640 --> 00:37:52.640
Yeah.
745
00:37:52.640 --> 00:37:55.920
Let's talk for a second, superstitions, because there's a whole chapter on this in the
746
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:56.920
book.
747
00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:00.640
And as a expert, yeah, we have a lot of superstitions that we live, we live our lives
748
00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:01.640
with superstitions.
749
00:38:01.640 --> 00:38:02.640
They're not just own.
750
00:38:02.640 --> 00:38:05.280
No, they're not performance tied for me, though.
751
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:06.280
There's a couple of performance.
752
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.400
No, but there's just like, I have a lot of life ones, and then there's a few performance.
753
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:11.400
Okay.
754
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:12.400
Walk me through.
755
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.880
So in the, at the kind of very beginning, why do people have superstitions and what like
756
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:22.080
emotional or like physiological need is the superstition trying to feel?
757
00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:25.920
To me, the biggest thing about superstitions, and I don't like them, by the way.
758
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:26.920
I know.
759
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:27.920
So, yeah.
760
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:28.920
I want your take on them.
761
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:33.200
It's, it's our way of trying to manage our anxiety.
762
00:38:33.200 --> 00:38:34.960
We're tense.
763
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:37.440
We are coming up against performance moment.
764
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:38.440
We're scared.
765
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:40.240
We want to do well.
766
00:38:40.240 --> 00:38:41.240
It's uncomfortable.
767
00:38:41.240 --> 00:38:43.040
It takes mental effort.
768
00:38:43.040 --> 00:38:48.280
It's a lot easier, rather breathing, and telling yourself what to do, and, yeah, and focusing
769
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:49.280
properly.
770
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:54.200
It's a lot easier to just pull your socks up and do this and do that and do things
771
00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:55.720
that have to lock her three times.
772
00:38:55.720 --> 00:38:56.720
Right.
773
00:38:56.720 --> 00:38:58.200
It has someone who used to do that.
774
00:38:58.200 --> 00:38:59.200
Right.
775
00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:00.840
It has nothing to do with your performance.
776
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.400
I can't imagine, rely.
777
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:10.400
Like this to me would be, like you lose all agency when you do this, because like I, like
778
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:13.600
in your book, you talk about someone I think needed, like their old red hat.
779
00:39:13.600 --> 00:39:14.600
Oh yeah.
780
00:39:14.600 --> 00:39:15.600
They need to wear.
781
00:39:15.600 --> 00:39:17.560
Well, I need to wear, what if the hat got lost?
782
00:39:17.560 --> 00:39:18.560
Of course.
783
00:39:18.560 --> 00:39:20.560
Then you're in your brand thinking you're never able to perform again.
784
00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:21.800
Like, then you're protected.
785
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:25.080
You need to like have this protected from having to put yourself out there.
786
00:39:25.080 --> 00:39:26.080
Yeah.
787
00:39:26.120 --> 00:39:29.240
I always looking for these barriers between us and the performance.
788
00:39:29.240 --> 00:39:30.720
It's not my fault.
789
00:39:30.720 --> 00:39:31.960
I couldn't do it.
790
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:33.440
You know, only this hat.
791
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:34.680
If only he hadn't said that.
792
00:39:34.680 --> 00:39:39.840
So it's an accountability thing to like your increasing, yeah, maybe your place in accountability
793
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.840
elsewhere.
794
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.800
Oh, well, it all ties into the excuses and pushing it all out.
795
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:44.800
It's done.
796
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:45.800
Wiggling and kicking it down the road.
797
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:46.800
So I can't do it.
798
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.320
So we act superstitions with your clients.
799
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:50.320
I do.
800
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:51.320
I try to.
801
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:52.320
Yeah.
802
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.240
Or I'll explain to the man, do it if you want.
803
00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:57.760
If it's a little level, but it's actually not helping you perform.
804
00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.960
He'll have to sit down with your man as mom.
805
00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:00.960
Yeah.
806
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:02.560
Well, I have skin in her purse.
807
00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:03.920
Yeah, I've skinned my purse.
808
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:07.400
I have to wear red getting on the plane, have to get on the plane with my right foot.
809
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:09.480
If I see a black cat, I have to switch directions.
810
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:10.840
Can't put my purse on the ground.
811
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:11.840
You lose your money.
812
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:12.840
There's so many.
813
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:13.840
Oh, right.
814
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:14.840
And they have money.
815
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:15.840
Do they all work?
816
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:16.840
I don't know.
817
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:17.840
Can't.
818
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:23.560
What is it that you can't gift romantic partners shoes because they'll walk away from you?
819
00:40:23.560 --> 00:40:24.560
Oh, right.
820
00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:25.560
Yes.
821
00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:26.560
Oh, these are quite fun.
822
00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:29.000
Some of them are just life superstitions, some of them aren't, yeah.
823
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:38.560
And again, if they're not dangerous or, you know, whatever, right, it's the ones I do
824
00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:42.000
get in the way, the ones that I, you know, only this happened.
825
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.000
If only he hadn't said so.
826
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:48.360
So it's an accountability thing to start increasing, yeah, maybe I have one more random
827
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:49.360
question.
828
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:50.360
So don't have a point of view.
829
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:54.680
We can access, but given we just lost the world series, Blue Jays game seven.
830
00:40:54.680 --> 00:40:59.120
Do you have any, I don't know if you watched the game or not, but any point of view on what
831
00:40:59.120 --> 00:41:03.360
happened to us, as we had the game, 70 percent of it, I do.
832
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:04.360
How did it unravel?
833
00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:07.440
You know, I have to tell you, I did work for the Dodgers for like 10 years.
834
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:13.960
And I was there at the games with the Dodgers people, oh, yes, but I did work for the Jays
835
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:14.960
at 1.2.
836
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:18.760
So I was very back on the Jays because maybe we would have won game seven.
837
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:19.760
Yeah.
838
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:24.440
We lost on base running, we lost on, okay, there were some mistakes.
839
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:25.440
Yeah.
840
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:30.960
Now, having said that, was it not a fabulous series, it had it all, it couldn't have been
841
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:31.960
any tighter.
842
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:32.960
Right?
843
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:33.960
Okay.
844
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:34.960
Yeah.
845
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:35.960
Game seven.
846
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:42.360
Unfortunately, game six, you knew there might be trouble because they were in Toronto.
847
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:43.360
They had it.
848
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:44.360
Right.
849
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:45.360
And then they didn't.
850
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:46.360
Game.
851
00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:50.760
So that's a hard way to step into game seven for the losing team.
852
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:51.760
What happened?
853
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:52.760
Yeah.
854
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:53.760
There's just a few mistakes.
855
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:58.760
And I mean, the Dodgers are making mistakes too.
856
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:05.760
But there were, yeah, a couple of preventable mistakes.
857
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.760
It's a tense game.
858
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:10.760
Tensions were up.
859
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:11.760
Focus was off.
860
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:12.760
Focus was off.
861
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:13.760
Yeah.
862
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:14.760
Yeah.
863
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:26.560
So if you were on the sidelines for the Blue Jays and all the Dodgers, in those moments,
864
00:42:26.560 --> 00:42:27.560
what would you have advised?
865
00:42:27.560 --> 00:42:29.360
Well, anything that could have been done.
866
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.560
In the moments, you can't do anything in the moment.
867
00:42:31.560 --> 00:42:32.560
They're out there.
868
00:42:32.560 --> 00:42:33.560
They're going.
869
00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:34.560
Yeah.
870
00:42:34.560 --> 00:42:37.160
And it's, you know, they're on base.
871
00:42:37.160 --> 00:42:42.600
Unfortunately, you know, the guy I think was, I don't know, but trying to be aggressive,
872
00:42:42.600 --> 00:42:47.440
which is good, just maybe in that situation, it just didn't, it didn't work out.
873
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.160
So, but in the moment, like, I can't go and say anything.
874
00:42:50.160 --> 00:42:53.600
Of course, these people, right, they're on the field, they're doing things, but they
875
00:42:53.600 --> 00:42:58.360
know, no, no, I was, I was, I was spectator, I was spectator.
876
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:05.800
But the idea in my role is trying to get them ready for these things, pre, you know, before.
877
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:09.840
So that they have a plan, they know what could happen.
878
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.120
And if they can stay calm in those moments, it's a lot easier for them to do what they
879
00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:16.120
need to do.
880
00:43:16.120 --> 00:43:17.120
Yeah.
881
00:43:17.120 --> 00:43:18.120
Okay.
882
00:43:18.120 --> 00:43:21.560
So if they were, if they were Jesus watching right now, the coach is watching, called Dana,
883
00:43:21.560 --> 00:43:24.680
because next year we're going to, we're going to have our redo.
884
00:43:24.680 --> 00:43:25.680
Yeah.
885
00:43:25.680 --> 00:43:29.960
Do we want to talk about our performance styles and the scoring for a little bit?
886
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:30.960
Sure.
887
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.960
Yeah.
888
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:32.960
Maybe we can start with what are performance styles?
889
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:36.840
Because reading the book is the first I ever actually heard of the term.
890
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:42.960
So I call it a performance style, sort of personality default, what, you know, I'm, I'm more
891
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:48.600
likely to be like I'm a patient listener, I'm, you know, there's, there's different scales
892
00:43:48.600 --> 00:43:52.240
that you can go off of in terms of how passive or aggressive you are.
893
00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:55.880
And there's, there's lots of scales, there's lots of ways to do it.
894
00:43:55.880 --> 00:44:02.000
But the way I find helpful is to look at, again, for, you can have any kind of performance
895
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.160
style and be successful.
896
00:44:05.160 --> 00:44:10.600
Except, except, except, if you're a red flag, you're going to have trouble.
897
00:44:10.600 --> 00:44:11.600
If you're a red flag.
898
00:44:11.600 --> 00:44:12.600
Yeah.
899
00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:18.800
When red flags are people that are not disciplined, they can't, they can't, yeah, they can't
900
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:26.040
think through the consequences of their actions before they, they, they, they don't listen.
901
00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:27.040
It's crazy to think.
902
00:44:27.040 --> 00:44:28.040
It's like that.
903
00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:32.240
Probably giving up millions of dollars, like, have to rail to their courier, right?
904
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.440
So would you say the red flags and executives, the red flags are resolved in the therapy
905
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.480
chair before they come to see you?
906
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:44.160
For me, red flags, they're not going to get much better.
907
00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:48.800
And they have a very difficult time changing anything, even for short periods of time.
908
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:54.560
They might be fine for a while, but they always usually revert back to their destructive
909
00:44:54.560 --> 00:44:55.560
ways.
910
00:44:55.560 --> 00:44:57.000
So are people just stuck in their ways?
911
00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:58.000
Or can they change?
912
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:04.400
Well, they can be a little bit better, but if I'm hiring for a team or an organization,
913
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.240
I am saying, don't do it.
914
00:45:07.240 --> 00:45:08.240
It's not worth it.
915
00:45:08.240 --> 00:45:12.320
I think we're released with fairly green flags, yeah, I think so.
916
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:14.040
Yeah, I think you guys are just fine.
917
00:45:14.040 --> 00:45:15.040
Thank you so much.
918
00:45:15.040 --> 00:45:16.040
Thank you.
919
00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:18.640
I think if anything, there's no problem for the other people to get into problems, ladies,
920
00:45:18.640 --> 00:45:22.240
you dial it down sometimes with how much we expect of ourselves that I would say that
921
00:45:22.240 --> 00:45:23.240
with others and others.
922
00:45:23.240 --> 00:45:24.240
Well, sorry.
923
00:45:25.240 --> 00:45:26.400
Well, it's true.
924
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:31.200
If you are sort of have those perfectionist tendencies, you're going to have very high
925
00:45:31.200 --> 00:45:34.560
standards for yourself and those around you, right, to a degree.
926
00:45:34.560 --> 00:45:38.200
It's sometimes like relaxing a little bit, because not everyone's built the same way.
927
00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:39.200
Right.
928
00:45:39.200 --> 00:45:46.200
But again, if you can identify the situation that could cause trouble before you start
929
00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:50.720
there, dealing with a certain person or the situation you walk into, then you can tap
930
00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:54.480
it down and behave a different way for that interaction.
931
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:55.480
Yeah.
932
00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:56.800
And then go back to you.
933
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:57.800
So it's like it's working.
934
00:45:57.800 --> 00:45:58.800
Yeah.
935
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:05.800
It's the main thing, then, is just approaching life in this way to be present, slow, intentionals
936
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:09.560
that you're able to be reflective, be aware, recognize things, not always.
937
00:46:09.560 --> 00:46:10.560
Not always.
938
00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:11.560
Okay.
939
00:46:11.560 --> 00:46:14.680
No, I figure it's not an overhaul.
940
00:46:14.680 --> 00:46:18.040
It's a picking out for yourself.
941
00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:22.280
Again, what the default behaviors are that are going to get in your way.
942
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:27.680
And the biggest ones are being too passive, not taking, not being assertive enough in
943
00:46:27.680 --> 00:46:29.280
certain situations, not taking action.
944
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:30.280
No problem.
945
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:31.280
Right?
946
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:32.280
Okay.
947
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.280
Or too aggressive.
948
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:34.280
Could be the other one.
949
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:35.280
Sure.
950
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:39.360
Those people are like domineering a bit belligerent and whatnot.
951
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:44.600
Most people are more on the passive side and it's learning to take action that's important.
952
00:46:44.600 --> 00:46:47.720
In some situations, only some situations.
953
00:46:47.720 --> 00:46:53.120
The other big one is, yeah, being too reactive, going to fast rushing.
954
00:46:53.120 --> 00:46:58.800
We don't get to our best when we rush and a lot of people are really fast paced, which
955
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:05.760
is great, but they get defensive and they over, they overreact too often and cause problems
956
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.520
for themselves and others.
957
00:47:07.520 --> 00:47:08.520
Yeah.
958
00:47:08.520 --> 00:47:09.520
Those are the biggest.
959
00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:13.480
I'm like in my company and executive actions when you're trying to keep a team motivated
960
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:14.480
as well.
961
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:23.160
I think in interactions like driving in the board rooms everywhere, that's a big behavioral
962
00:47:23.160 --> 00:47:24.160
issue.
963
00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:27.160
I agree with that.
964
00:47:27.160 --> 00:47:32.640
And then trying to be too detailed and take off everything and get everything right and
965
00:47:32.640 --> 00:47:36.120
not move something forward because you've got to check and recheck and you just get too
966
00:47:36.120 --> 00:47:37.120
much stress going.
967
00:47:37.120 --> 00:47:38.120
Yeah.
968
00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:39.120
Yeah.
969
00:47:39.120 --> 00:47:40.120
That's like what we do.
970
00:47:40.120 --> 00:47:41.120
It's not necessarily the enemy of grace.
971
00:47:41.120 --> 00:47:42.120
Yeah.
972
00:47:42.120 --> 00:47:43.120
I hate that as well.
973
00:47:43.120 --> 00:47:44.120
Yeah.
974
00:47:44.120 --> 00:47:49.720
But all since I left consultants, it's like such a byproduct of like once your life becomes
975
00:47:49.720 --> 00:47:52.760
busier, you're just like, I can't.
976
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:56.960
Like something is needed to just be good enough, you know?
977
00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:57.960
That's my take.
978
00:47:57.960 --> 00:47:58.960
Yeah.
979
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.160
I mean, you're, you know, not everybody's going to be number one in the world.
980
00:48:01.160 --> 00:48:02.160
Yeah.
981
00:48:02.160 --> 00:48:03.160
Let's ease up everybody.
982
00:48:03.160 --> 00:48:06.560
How about being really good or just good enough and then you've gone?
983
00:48:06.560 --> 00:48:07.560
Yeah.
984
00:48:07.560 --> 00:48:08.560
Yeah.
985
00:48:08.560 --> 00:48:09.560
Cause you get a lot done if you're good enough.
986
00:48:09.560 --> 00:48:10.560
Yeah.
987
00:48:10.600 --> 00:48:15.000
So we have our scores for ourselves here and you're welcome.
988
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.120
I don't know if you have this memorized or if you want to pull out your book, but you
989
00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:26.320
can put us a little bit on the spot here and talk through what some of these different
990
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:32.520
performance styles are, what they could indicate as maybe some, I don't want us to use
991
00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:36.520
the word weaknesses, but things for us to be aware of and mindful of.
992
00:48:36.520 --> 00:48:37.520
We can use weaknesses or sensitivities.
993
00:48:37.520 --> 00:48:38.520
How about that?
994
00:48:38.520 --> 00:48:39.520
Sure.
995
00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:40.520
Right.
996
00:48:40.520 --> 00:48:41.520
Okay.
997
00:48:41.520 --> 00:48:45.800
And again, remember, you can be high or low on a whole bunch of things, it just, it doesn't
998
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:46.800
really matter.
999
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:48.400
It just matters what gets in the way.
1000
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:49.400
Okay.
1001
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:50.400
Do you want to start?
1002
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:51.400
The first one is not so good.
1003
00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:54.840
Under, also, I'll say that I'm really impressed with how like a like we are and some of these
1004
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:55.840
categories.
1005
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:58.000
Some of them and others were like complete off.
1006
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:59.000
We don't.
1007
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:00.000
It's not so good.
1008
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:01.000
Under pressure.
1009
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:06.360
We, and from one through to 10, 10 is really good under pressure and both of us scored
1010
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:07.680
a six, six to seven.
1011
00:49:07.680 --> 00:49:08.440
Okay.
1012
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:09.440
Yeah.
1013
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:10.440
Great.
1014
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:11.440
I think she's better under pressure than me.
1015
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:12.440
Okay.
1016
00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:13.440
Yeah.
1017
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:16.960
I think, like, I think any rating of sort of seven and above, nice.
1018
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:17.960
Okay.
1019
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:18.960
Okay.
1020
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:19.960
So guess what?
1021
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:20.960
Forget it.
1022
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:21.960
You're good.
1023
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:22.960
Okay.
1024
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:23.960
Meticulous planner.
1025
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:24.960
One.
1026
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:26.760
All the way through to prefers to wing it.
1027
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:27.760
I scored a three.
1028
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:29.760
I'm a pretty big winner.
1029
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:30.760
Sam's even worse.
1030
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:31.760
I'm a two.
1031
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:32.760
Okay.
1032
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:33.760
All right.
1033
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:35.760
Well, you're in that low zone.
1034
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:44.200
So, again, if it is generally giving you kudos in life, go for it.
1035
00:49:44.200 --> 00:49:45.200
It's only if...
1036
00:49:45.200 --> 00:49:46.200
It's a problem area.
1037
00:49:46.200 --> 00:49:47.200
Yeah.
1038
00:49:47.200 --> 00:49:48.200
I...
1039
00:49:48.200 --> 00:49:54.520
So it's funny because when it is a problem area is when you're like managing a team and
1040
00:49:54.520 --> 00:49:58.400
people are not being as thoughtful with, like, an approach to doing something and then
1041
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:02.320
you're trying to, like, but anyway, well, that's a, I don't want a side tangent that.
1042
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:03.320
Okay.
1043
00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:04.320
Well, let me add something to that one.
1044
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.320
The other side prefers to wing it at 10.
1045
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:07.320
Okay.
1046
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.160
These people, again, like to do their own thing.
1047
00:50:10.160 --> 00:50:12.600
If they see a workaround, they're going to use that rule.
1048
00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:13.600
That rule doesn't make sense.
1049
00:50:13.600 --> 00:50:14.600
I'm going to do it this way.
1050
00:50:14.600 --> 00:50:18.360
They can be very intelligent and wonderful at the jobs too.
1051
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:25.280
But again, if you're too high, those people, you know, they kind of annoy the meticulous
1052
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:31.080
planners because they don't pay as much attention to some things that say you guys would think
1053
00:50:31.080 --> 00:50:32.080
is important.
1054
00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:33.080
Yeah.
1055
00:50:33.080 --> 00:50:34.080
Well, that doesn't really matter.
1056
00:50:34.080 --> 00:50:35.080
That's not important.
1057
00:50:35.080 --> 00:50:36.080
Yeah.
1058
00:50:36.080 --> 00:50:39.080
But it's going to annoy you and you're going to think I don't care and I'm not, I'm not
1059
00:50:39.080 --> 00:50:40.080
involved.
1060
00:50:40.080 --> 00:50:41.080
Yes.
1061
00:50:41.080 --> 00:50:42.080
Properly.
1062
00:50:42.080 --> 00:50:43.080
Or these people, they tend to be late.
1063
00:50:43.080 --> 00:50:45.200
Oh, just, you know, they're rushing around.
1064
00:50:45.200 --> 00:50:46.200
You guys will be...
1065
00:50:46.200 --> 00:50:47.200
I'm not late.
1066
00:50:47.200 --> 00:50:48.200
Driven nuts by people being late.
1067
00:50:48.200 --> 00:50:49.200
She's late all the time.
1068
00:50:49.200 --> 00:50:50.200
Oh.
1069
00:50:50.200 --> 00:50:51.200
Ah!
1070
00:50:51.200 --> 00:50:52.200
Like, I'm a five-godden.
1071
00:50:52.200 --> 00:50:53.200
So much better now.
1072
00:50:53.200 --> 00:50:54.200
So much better.
1073
00:50:54.200 --> 00:50:55.200
So much better.
1074
00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:56.200
But yeah.
1075
00:50:56.200 --> 00:50:59.200
And to the point on like how things are received or like you said, people thinking it's
1076
00:50:59.200 --> 00:51:00.200
not important.
1077
00:51:00.200 --> 00:51:04.280
I used to feel like Germana didn't think by time was important there.
1078
00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:05.280
That's usually...
1079
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:06.280
Yeah.
1080
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:07.280
That's usually responding.
1081
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:08.280
Yeah.
1082
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.280
Why are you so much more important than me?
1083
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:10.280
I'm waiting for you.
1084
00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:11.280
Yeah.
1085
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.280
Why is your time more valuable?
1086
00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:13.280
I'm sorry.
1087
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:14.280
That's okay.
1088
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:15.280
I publicly apologize.
1089
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:16.280
We've gone so much better.
1090
00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:17.280
Yeah.
1091
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:18.280
And you're not our worst friend.
1092
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:21.280
I can think of others that are like 45 minutes hour late.
1093
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:22.280
Okay.
1094
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:24.720
So I'm like a five to 15 late.
1095
00:51:24.720 --> 00:51:25.720
A little bit.
1096
00:51:25.720 --> 00:51:26.720
Okay.
1097
00:51:26.720 --> 00:51:27.720
Next one.
1098
00:51:27.720 --> 00:51:28.720
Yeah.
1099
00:51:28.720 --> 00:51:29.720
Okay.
1100
00:51:29.720 --> 00:51:35.280
On a scale, once 10, how impatient, patient you are, we said we're both fairly patient.
1101
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:36.880
Me, seven, her, seven, eight.
1102
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:38.960
I actually think I'm like a five-six.
1103
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:39.960
Really?
1104
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:40.960
Depending on the situation.
1105
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:41.960
I would think that too.
1106
00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:42.960
Just by observation.
1107
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:43.960
Really?
1108
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:44.960
Yep.
1109
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:45.960
Yeah.
1110
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:46.960
Would you say I am also less patient?
1111
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:47.960
I would say so.
1112
00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:48.960
I would say you guys would be in the middle.
1113
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:49.960
Interesting.
1114
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:51.960
I don't think you're on the high or side of this.
1115
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:52.960
Yeah.
1116
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:53.960
I definitely think about how I operate at work.
1117
00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:54.960
I'm definitely not.
1118
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:55.960
I'm not patient lower.
1119
00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:56.960
I'm not patient lower.
1120
00:51:57.040 --> 00:52:02.920
I thought more of like, am I willing to do work and wait a long time for the results?
1121
00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:06.040
So it's like patients in life, like the marshmallow test.
1122
00:52:06.040 --> 00:52:07.040
Oh, okay.
1123
00:52:07.040 --> 00:52:08.040
That was more what I thought about.
1124
00:52:08.040 --> 00:52:09.040
That's what I thought about.
1125
00:52:09.040 --> 00:52:10.040
Okay.
1126
00:52:10.040 --> 00:52:12.200
I've been able to see the outcome down the road.
1127
00:52:12.200 --> 00:52:13.200
Okay.
1128
00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:14.200
Okay.
1129
00:52:14.200 --> 00:52:19.000
Defensive, to take criticism well, like six, but I would say we're both pretty coachable.
1130
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:20.920
Like I would not maybe put a seven.
1131
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:26.360
In personal settings, I actually think that you get quite defensive at first.
1132
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.080
And then it's like, you know, you're right down, you're right.
1133
00:52:30.080 --> 00:52:34.320
But it's when it's like more in a personal on the personal side.
1134
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:38.280
So it's funny because I just went through something like this with a friend and like for
1135
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:41.840
the first two minutes or a few minutes, I'm defensive because it's like you're just
1136
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:45.840
hearing the information for the first time, you take a second to breathe and you're like,
1137
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:46.840
I like to think about it.
1138
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:47.840
I'm like, you know what, you're right.
1139
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:48.840
Yeah.
1140
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:49.840
It happens pretty quick.
1141
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:50.840
I'm like, you're 100% right.
1142
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:51.840
I'm sorry.
1143
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:52.840
I take accountability.
1144
00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:58.920
From a performance style, taking criticism well is obviously where we want to get to like
1145
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:00.320
an eight plus.
1146
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:01.320
You know what?
1147
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:06.520
Again, these are just general notions of where you are.
1148
00:53:06.520 --> 00:53:12.720
And it just, it doesn't matter where you want to get to is again, in that situation where
1149
00:53:12.720 --> 00:53:20.000
maybe you don't react properly, maybe you do get defensive and don't take the criticism
1150
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:23.320
in the intent that it's meant as into help.
1151
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:24.320
Yeah.
1152
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:30.520
And it's said kindly and whatnot, it's, it's knowing how to deal with that.
1153
00:53:30.520 --> 00:53:31.520
Okay.
1154
00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:39.960
So again, if, if you're an eight or a five, whatever, it just depends on, okay, I keep
1155
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:45.480
messing up in these situations and feeling bad about it because I'm not taking criticism
1156
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:52.880
while I'm too defensive, so I need to be able to slow down when that happens again.
1157
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:53.880
And respond differently.
1158
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:55.280
And I've got to plan out my response.
1159
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:56.280
Yeah.
1160
00:53:56.280 --> 00:54:00.560
So Jermana and I both scored very low on the controlling to hands off.
1161
00:54:00.560 --> 00:54:07.120
We both scored ourselves a two on controlling, which you're probably not surprised by.
1162
00:54:07.120 --> 00:54:09.680
Does it cause you problems though?
1163
00:54:09.680 --> 00:54:10.680
For sure.
1164
00:54:10.680 --> 00:54:11.680
Okay.
1165
00:54:11.680 --> 00:54:12.680
Yeah.
1166
00:54:12.680 --> 00:54:23.200
So yeah, I was going to say like, what's, what is underlying, a need for control in most
1167
00:54:23.200 --> 00:54:24.200
people?
1168
00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:30.320
Sometimes it's anxiety, sometimes it's defensiveness, sometimes it's just thinking everyone's output
1169
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:35.880
is that a reflection of you, which is also just feeling defensive, like feeling criticized.
1170
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:46.200
To me the word safety, safety comes to mind, yeah, safety from that I have, if I can
1171
00:54:46.200 --> 00:54:51.200
control things, then you feel safe, right, because you feel in control of yourself.
1172
00:54:51.200 --> 00:54:52.200
Yeah.
1173
00:54:52.200 --> 00:54:53.200
So much the environment.
1174
00:54:53.200 --> 00:54:54.440
I'm trying to control the environment.
1175
00:54:54.440 --> 00:55:00.000
I'm trying to, but I like try to control, because you're anxiety, like people getting
1176
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.200
back together, I've tried to control, I tried to control lots of things.
1177
00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:05.200
Right.
1178
00:55:05.200 --> 00:55:09.840
So I mean, obviously we haven't talked, I don't really know, but it's just, it's a rising
1179
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:10.840
tension.
1180
00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:11.840
Yeah.
1181
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:16.480
I would say I think I'm a bit better than you, and I think I'm a bit of a purer for, but
1182
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:17.480
still controlling.
1183
00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:18.480
Maybe even five.
1184
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:19.480
I don't know if I'm wrong.
1185
00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:23.320
You're also very different at work versus in your personal relationships.
1186
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:25.160
And I feel like I'm a bit more consistent.
1187
00:55:25.160 --> 00:55:28.160
Do you see that a lot of people being just two different personalities, like she's more
1188
00:55:28.160 --> 00:55:30.280
less a fair in her personal life.
1189
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:36.400
Like I am definitely intense type A, like high expectations at work.
1190
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:41.080
And then in life, I'm okay with being less a fair type B, hands off, go with a flow.
1191
00:55:41.080 --> 00:55:44.040
But it's like, it's like I throw it all back and forth.
1192
00:55:44.040 --> 00:55:45.040
Yeah.
1193
00:55:45.040 --> 00:55:46.040
It's so weird.
1194
00:55:46.040 --> 00:55:50.840
I think you're you, and I don't think it's different people in different situations.
1195
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:56.920
I don't think you're, I think maybe there's different stresses or expectations attached
1196
00:55:56.920 --> 00:56:00.800
to working versus when you're in a social situation, whenever you, it's not the same
1197
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:03.040
stress level or goal.
1198
00:56:03.040 --> 00:56:04.040
Interesting.
1199
00:56:04.040 --> 00:56:05.040
I could be.
1200
00:56:05.040 --> 00:56:06.040
Yeah.
1201
00:56:06.040 --> 00:56:07.040
Good to know.
1202
00:56:07.040 --> 00:56:12.040
So for our audience, there's quite a bit of people that are entrepreneurs, builders, maybe
1203
00:56:12.040 --> 00:56:15.960
they have co-founders or they're thinking about building teams.
1204
00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:24.040
Are there any of these scales or aspects where you would say being too different will maybe
1205
00:56:24.040 --> 00:56:30.440
pose problems or cause people to rub up against each other the wrong way?
1206
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:42.440
The best teamwork is gained by people learning to consistently deliver the goods individually.
1207
00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:49.440
I think a team can't be any good unless everybody is putting forth a good effort.
1208
00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:51.640
Everybody knows their role.
1209
00:56:51.640 --> 00:56:54.400
There's the individual delivery of high performance, right?
1210
00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:55.400
Yeah.
1211
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:59.240
I think a lot of founders get worked up about it's teamwork.
1212
00:56:59.240 --> 00:57:02.880
The team has to work on this, the team has to know that no, the individuals, the teams
1213
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:05.600
have to know what they're responsible for and each individual needs to know what their
1214
00:57:05.600 --> 00:57:08.640
role is and their responsibilities and they have to be.
1215
00:57:08.640 --> 00:57:11.240
And a lot of times the sum of the individuals.
1216
00:57:11.240 --> 00:57:14.120
It's got to get down, it's got to be drilled down to that level.
1217
00:57:14.120 --> 00:57:19.200
So your answer is for every team member to do this exercise, work on the areas that they've
1218
00:57:19.200 --> 00:57:21.400
identified as their flags.
1219
00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:23.560
And then as a team, you'll be better.
1220
00:57:23.560 --> 00:57:24.560
Absolutely.
1221
00:57:24.560 --> 00:57:31.880
If everybody cleans up what is not going the greatest for them, you're going to be that
1222
00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:32.880
much better.
1223
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:36.680
And that's the whole point of all of this is, how do we be just a little bit better here?
1224
00:57:36.680 --> 00:57:42.520
Your book covers a lot of strategies for improving performance and one that I picked up on was
1225
00:57:42.520 --> 00:57:46.560
the power to actually one is the power of self-talk and the second is the power of day
1226
00:57:46.560 --> 00:57:47.560
dreaming.
1227
00:57:47.560 --> 00:57:50.040
And you have like all different components of day dreaming.
1228
00:57:50.040 --> 00:57:53.000
Can you just walk through the kind of the science behind this?
1229
00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:58.160
Because I think we all manifest to a degree, whether it's like written or like visual,
1230
00:57:58.160 --> 00:58:01.640
but specifically with day dreaming, what is the power of it?
1231
00:58:01.640 --> 00:58:09.240
Neurologically with imagery, I call it imagery, sorry, I call it day dreaming because imagery
1232
00:58:09.240 --> 00:58:13.280
connotes like it's, you've got to do it for an hour a day or sit there and think, think,
1233
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:14.280
think.
1234
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:22.880
And really all the research shows that small clips more frequently are extremely helpful.
1235
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:28.360
So I'd want somebody to daydream, you know, a daydream is a short clip, you just sort
1236
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:31.520
of drift off, something, I want people to harness that.
1237
00:58:31.520 --> 00:58:38.760
So really what you're doing is you're practicing an outcome, a skill, an attitude, behavior,
1238
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:44.520
practicing it without actually doing it, but it's still firing off the same neural pathways
1239
00:58:44.520 --> 00:58:47.880
as you would if you actually had a much lower level of support.
1240
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:52.600
And what's really interesting is I remember seeing this study that looked at people who
1241
00:58:52.600 --> 00:58:55.480
imagined themselves working out.
1242
00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:59.240
And they, I don't think they increased their muscle mass, but they increased their strength.
1243
00:58:59.240 --> 00:59:00.240
Yes.
1244
00:59:00.240 --> 00:59:03.880
So they actually, like the next time you went into the gym, you were able to lift, I think
1245
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:09.480
it was one to two times the pounds that they were in the control group.
1246
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:14.480
And that's like the neuropath ways firing and like, it's the power of mindset.
1247
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:15.680
That's good for injury too.
1248
00:59:15.680 --> 00:59:16.680
Yeah.
1249
00:59:16.680 --> 00:59:20.120
People who are actually, imagine themselves improving it or say you've got a broken bone.
1250
00:59:20.120 --> 00:59:23.880
I mean, there's actual studies and scripts out there.
1251
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:24.880
Okay.
1252
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.720
Trying to see the blood and plasma healing the bone and whatnot.
1253
00:59:28.720 --> 00:59:31.960
And it increases the power of the mind is insane.
1254
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:33.960
It is.
1255
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:34.960
We've got to use it.
1256
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:35.960
Even just a little bit.
1257
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:36.960
Yeah.
1258
00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:40.560
Well, I used, after reading this book again, I used this technique last night when I was
1259
00:59:40.560 --> 00:59:41.960
going to bed.
1260
00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:47.600
And as I was just laying there in bed, I was just imagining myself kicking off the conversation
1261
00:59:47.600 --> 00:59:49.800
with our next guest, because I'm leading that one.
1262
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:50.800
Great.
1263
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:55.160
And like what I was saying, how it was going to go, how your reaction was going to be,
1264
00:59:55.160 --> 00:59:58.560
how their reaction was going to be in like the optimal way I wanted.
1265
00:59:58.560 --> 00:59:59.560
Fabulous.
1266
00:59:59.560 --> 01:00:00.560
And we'll see if it works.
1267
01:00:00.560 --> 01:00:01.560
Fabulous.
1268
01:00:01.680 --> 01:00:05.360
I heard the example that you spoke about about surgeons, too.
1269
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:09.880
And I think, because I mean, I'm in veterinary care, so we hire a lot of doctors, but just
1270
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:15.120
like the practice of, and it's very meticulous, like they're having to do like crazy procedures
1271
01:00:15.120 --> 01:00:20.400
cut, like so everything, but having to like map out and almost like imagine the surgery
1272
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:22.880
going well and what the steps are helps them a lot.
1273
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:23.880
Absolutely.
1274
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:30.960
Because it's skill development, and you can increase your abilities and the outcomes,
1275
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:36.320
but outcomes just by rehearsing crazy, but any other tactical examples of ways to improve
1276
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:38.000
performance day to day.
1277
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:45.000
So I like people to have a plan, like on a sticky note, okay, before the event or whatever
1278
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.560
it is, what am I going to do?
1279
01:00:47.560 --> 01:00:51.080
So I'm going to daydream a bit, see how I want it to go.
1280
01:00:51.080 --> 01:00:53.040
I'm going to check my tension and breathe a little.
1281
01:00:53.040 --> 01:00:54.520
I'm going to review my facts.
1282
01:00:54.520 --> 01:00:55.520
Okay, great.
1283
01:00:55.520 --> 01:01:00.960
Now, during what are the most important cues for me to do?
1284
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:08.160
It's all about doing in the moment, and then have a number one focus.
1285
01:01:08.160 --> 01:01:12.200
So it could be just, whenever something's going inside, I like people that's something
1286
01:01:12.200 --> 01:01:17.440
in mind, oh, this is really not going well, and I'm feeling really uncomfortable.
1287
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:21.560
What's the one thing that I can do to help reset and bring it back, and it could just
1288
01:01:21.560 --> 01:01:26.960
be a long slow breaths, no one's going to see you're doing it anyway, or it could just
1289
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:31.840
be getting back to that task, what's the one thing I'm going to tell myself to do?
1290
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:32.840
Yeah.
1291
01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:33.840
The notion that pressure is a privilege.
1292
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:35.320
Were you the one that said that?
1293
01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:36.320
Well, look at Jean King.
1294
01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:37.320
Jean King says it.
1295
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:38.320
Yeah.
1296
01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:39.320
Yeah.
1297
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:40.320
It's not saying that.
1298
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:41.320
Which I love that statement.
1299
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:42.320
Yeah.
1300
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:45.520
It's such a, like if you're feeling pressure and you care about something that much, it's
1301
01:01:45.520 --> 01:01:47.320
like, it is a privilege to feel that way.
1302
01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:49.320
And we shouldn't avoid pressure, right?
1303
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:54.280
Because if you're never having pressure, it means that you're never doing anything of
1304
01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:55.280
importance.
1305
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:56.280
It's part of a striving life.
1306
01:01:56.280 --> 01:01:57.280
Yeah.
1307
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:58.280
So I love that.
1308
01:01:58.280 --> 01:01:59.280
I love that.
1309
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:00.280
It's part of a striving life.
1310
01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:01.280
We want to strive for a great life.
1311
01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:05.400
And I'm not, I'm not even sure, I mean, I like it, but I'm not even sure it's a privilege,
1312
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:11.200
I think it's just a given, and I want people to be ready for it because it takes courage
1313
01:02:11.200 --> 01:02:13.160
to try to be good, or be better.
1314
01:02:13.160 --> 01:02:17.040
That's a very, that's a very great way to end this.
1315
01:02:17.040 --> 01:02:21.240
So we'll move to some rapid-fire closing questions.
1316
01:02:21.240 --> 01:02:31.200
First one, rank these three skills in order of importance, talent, discipline, coachability,
1317
01:02:31.200 --> 01:02:37.000
coachability, okay, discipline, talent, okay, question two.
1318
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:43.440
What's one habit, high performers think is helping them, but is actually hurting them?
1319
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:51.320
Fashion, reacting too fast, slow down, not slowing down, they don't think about it.
1320
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:54.760
What's the most memorable moment you've had with a client?
1321
01:02:54.760 --> 01:03:06.400
Oh, I've had many, probably a very talented world cup skier.
1322
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:16.280
And he had a near fatal accident, skiing down the famous Kitspil.
1323
01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:19.440
And I didn't meet him until after that, he decided to come back.
1324
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:24.000
He was airlifted and was not supposed to make it.
1325
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:31.920
And he decided to come back to skiing at the top level, I mean, it's, you know, and I
1326
01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:35.080
helped him get through getting down Kitspil again.
1327
01:03:35.080 --> 01:03:36.080
Wow.
1328
01:03:36.080 --> 01:03:37.080
Wow.
1329
01:03:37.080 --> 01:03:38.080
Yeah, we're still really good friends.
1330
01:03:38.080 --> 01:03:42.360
It's still pride about it here and there, you know, yeah, he was great.
1331
01:03:42.360 --> 01:03:47.160
He came back and he, he was still fabulous back to the Olympics and everything, so incredible.
1332
01:03:47.160 --> 01:03:48.160
That is an incredible story.
1333
01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:52.760
Well, the guy is incredible, so.
1334
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:56.160
What would your future self tell you to do more of today?
1335
01:03:56.160 --> 01:03:59.480
Oh, wow.
1336
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:02.600
Future selves can be pretty old, by the way.
1337
01:04:02.600 --> 01:04:05.080
So I should have a lot of wisdom on this one.
1338
01:04:05.080 --> 01:04:14.240
No, just to continue to just chill, keep doing the stuff that you want to do and just keep
1339
01:04:14.240 --> 01:04:18.320
trying to be better, you're never going to be perfect, just keep trying to be better.
1340
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:19.320
It's driving.
1341
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:20.320
Yeah.
1342
01:04:20.320 --> 01:04:21.320
Yeah.
1343
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:22.320
Amazing.
1344
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:23.320
Okay.
1345
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:24.320
Well, thank you so much.
1346
01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:25.320
Thanks for coming on the show.
1347
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:26.920
If anyone wants to buy your book, it's incredible.
1348
01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:27.920
Where can they go?
1349
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:30.000
Oh, Indigo, Amazon.
1350
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:34.440
And if anyone is interested in working with you, getting in touch, where can they find
1351
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:35.440
you?
1352
01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:40.600
They can find me at drdynasonclair.com and on Instagram, drdynasonclair.
1353
01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:41.600
Amazing.
1354
01:04:41.600 --> 01:04:43.600
I'm just noticing here you've worked with Kyle Lowry.
1355
01:04:43.600 --> 01:04:44.600
I love him.
1356
01:04:44.600 --> 01:04:45.600
Shout out.
1357
01:04:45.600 --> 01:04:46.600
Yeah, he was fun.
1358
01:04:46.600 --> 01:04:48.600
He's a good guy.
1359
01:04:48.600 --> 01:04:49.600
Kyle.
1360
01:04:49.600 --> 01:04:50.600
Here's team.
1361
01:04:50.600 --> 01:04:52.600
Man of testing, working with the Blue Jays next year.
1362
01:04:52.600 --> 01:04:53.600
Yes.
1363
01:04:53.600 --> 01:04:57.640
Give me Toronto the win that we very much need and thank you again for your time.
1364
01:04:57.640 --> 01:04:58.640
Thank you.
1365
01:04:58.640 --> 01:05:00.800
And thanks very much, you guys.
1366
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:04.640
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Between Two Bernats.
1367
01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:09.200
If you enjoy the show, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.
1368
01:05:09.200 --> 01:05:12.240
We'd love to hear your feedback and do our best to get back to everyone.
1369
01:05:12.240 --> 01:05:16.560
So feel free to leave your comments or reach out to us on any of our socials.
1370
01:05:16.560 --> 01:05:17.240
See you next time.