Erik [0:00:00]: A work to the wise, keep your eyes on the ninety five thick.
Erik [0:00:03]: I'm Erik Jacobson, welcome to 95% Content.
Erik [0:00:08]: A show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the ninety percent of buyers who are out of market today, but we'll be ready to buy in the future.
Erik [0:00:16]: Alright.
Erik [0:00:21]: Well, Deedi, thank you for joining me today.
Erik [0:00:23]: I'm excited to chat for those who don't know you're the Head of Content at Bubble.
Erik [0:00:28]: I'm sure a ton of people that listen to the show if not, almost everybody has heard of Bubble.
Erik [0:00:33]: And I think, you know, a lot of the reason for that will be some of the stuff that we talk about today related to your content strategies specifically.
Erik [0:00:42]: But for anybody, the small portion of the audience who doesn't know.
Erik [0:00:46]: So Bubble is essentially a platform that can help you build an app, product, website, an Ai tool, all for the most part without knowing how to code.
Deedi [0:00:57]: A hundred percent without knowing how to code.
Erik [0:00:59]: A hundred percent without knowing how to code in and frankly, that category has gotten a lot of attention and further of late, but you all have been doing this for a very long time, potentially even, you know, one of the earliest or if not the earliest, really, really sort of bringing this sort of product to market and champion these capabilities essentially.
Erik [0:01:20]: So really, what I'm excited to chat about today is the content approaches you have done or are currently doing that have helped you build up that mind share.
Erik [0:01:32]: Because mind share, sitting at one of the key industry leader positions is not easy to attain.
Erik [0:01:41]: And so maybe the first place we could start is if we just take the highest level perspective of this, From a content and marketing perspective, you've got those in market, looking for a solution today.
Erik [0:01:54]: It's usually a very small portion of the market, five percent or less.
Erik [0:01:57]: Thinking to themselves, I need to find a tool like Bubble.
Erik [0:02:01]: And they're going to Google, asking friends, whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:02:04]: And then you've got the much larger portion of the market who's not necessarily actively looking, but maybe they will...
Erik [0:02:11]: They're still the right persona, and it's likely they will be in market at some point, and we want them to know about us.
Erik [0:02:18]: In the future.
Erik [0:02:19]: What percentage breakdown or how you think about those two different camps when it comes to your content strategy?
Erik [0:02:26]: Do you focus primarily on one or the other, like, how do you think about that in general
Deedi [0:02:31]: That's a good question.
Deedi [0:02:32]: I have to admit that I don't, like, specifically think about that a lot these days in those exact terms because we are undergoing a massive category shift right now.
Deedi [0:02:44]: Not just like us, although that is also drew, like, Bubble specifically, but also our industry in general, You know, a year ago, we would have been talking about an entirely different competitor set, then Bubble is, like, frankly caring about these days.
Deedi [0:02:58]: And moving away from this no code era, which we kind of see is, like, the first era was no code and and Bubble, like you mentioned is been around for over ten years.
Deedi [0:03:06]: We really pioneered in hand in hand with our users.
Deedi [0:03:08]: Like, this no code era, and it was great.
Deedi [0:03:11]: And we had a lot of growth there, and we were able to build a massive community, which is, like, honestly one of our biggest assets, but there were a lot of people who didn't know that it's actually possible for you to build an application or build software yourself without knowing how to code or hiring a dev team, growth and then we had this, like, second era, which is what we like to call the vibe coating era, and you saw lovable and rep and v zero and all of these others enter the scene, and that has not only shifted the entire industry and what it means to have product market fit and whatnot, but it also did us a huge favor in the fact that people know that you can build your own software now.
Deedi [0:03:46]: Right?
Deedi [0:03:46]: Like the number of people who used to be divided into those two categories that you mentioned?
Deedi [0:03:51]: Yes.
Deedi [0:03:51]: Is so much less black and white.
Erik [0:03:54]: Yes.
Deedi [0:03:54]: Than it used to be because now we're, like, do you consider us in the auction set alongside lovable, and that's our part at the moment.
Deedi [0:04:02]: Right?
Deedi [0:04:02]: Because lovable has a lot of oxygen in the media, but there are a lot of shortcomings because
Erik [0:04:08]: mh
Deedi [0:04:09]: Sure you can create an app.
Deedi [0:04:10]: Right?
Deedi [0:04:10]: But, like, it's still code.
Erik [0:04:12]: Right.
Deedi [0:04:13]: Like you still know how to code.
Deedi [0:04:13]: Then what you gonna do?
Deedi [0:04:14]: Like, it's still code.
Deedi [0:04:15]: And so really, like, a lot of these vibe coding platforms are band aids on the problem that we set out to solve over ten years ago.
Deedi [0:04:22]: The the competitor is still code.
Deedi [0:04:24]: Right?
Deedi [0:04:24]: The idea is still, but you don't need to know how to code.
Deedi [0:04:27]: You don't need how to read it.
Deedi [0:04:28]: You don't need to have to interact with it at all.
Deedi [0:04:30]: So we have gone from this idea of people need to, like, know that there are alternatives to code to people need to know that there's a better way than just having Ai fit out code for you.
Deedi [0:04:40]: There are alternatives to code.
Deedi [0:04:42]: Right.
Deedi [0:04:42]: And so this entire calendar year has really been a focus from us on a content perspective of that share of voice question, and that category shift question, bit So we are obviously still very focused on things like acquisition metrics, but we are much more laser focused on share of voice metrics and awareness metrics.
Erik [0:05:05]: Absolutely.
Erik [0:05:05]: Yeah.
Erik [0:05:06]: It's almost, like the market education you all have been doing, which is frankly, very difficult from a content and marketing perspective.
Erik [0:05:16]: There's been a lot of gasoline port on that fire for you with, like, just this entire sort of ecosystem.
Erik [0:05:23]: And now to your point, it's about, like, redirecting your wedge in, like, sort of the positioning and the strategic narrative, it sounds like, to being amongst those options seen as a comparable or better option in in you know, for certain segments or personas.
Erik [0:05:39]: So what sort of mechanisms if we look at your content ecosystem.
Erik [0:05:45]: You know, whatever prioritization of those channels or, you tactics you're using right now whether that be Youtube newsletter.
Erik [0:05:53]: I know community's is a big one for you all.
Erik [0:05:55]: You did a couple really big events recently.
Erik [0:05:58]: So you've got...
Erik [0:05:59]: Obviously, social.
Erik [0:06:00]: Could you just run us through, like, quick high level of what those things are, and then maybe we could go into some of the stuff you're doing with them.
Deedi [0:06:08]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:06:08]: Totally.
Deedi [0:06:08]: So let me just first say that we have a community team on the marketing team, and they are rocking and enrolling with live events and whatnot.
Deedi [0:06:16]: So thankfully, because that's not my super skill set that doesn't fall underneath my content org.
Deedi [0:06:20]: But obviously, we work really, really closely with them.
Deedi [0:06:23]: And because our community is, Say it again, like, our company's greatest asset.
Deedi [0:06:27]: I mean, there's an entire industry of Bubble developers who are building professional, like, agencies with hundreds of Bubble developers who are building Bubble apps for other people like, that's something that Aria has a content marketer never take for granted.
Deedi [0:06:40]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:40]: Because you help people who are so invested in the brand and want to read the content that you create and want to watch the videos that you produce, content marketers know that that's...
Deedi [0:06:48]: You don't know if get that.
Deedi [0:06:49]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:49]: I in intern in college for, like, a hearing aid company.
Deedi [0:06:52]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:52]: Like, I worked at a high net worth insurance company.
Deedi [0:06:54]: Nobody cared about float switches whatever.
Deedi [0:06:57]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:57]: So it's such a joy to
Erik [0:06:59]: create community.
Erik [0:07:00]: If you don't mind me.
Erik [0:07:01]: Like...
Erik [0:07:01]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:07:02]: Oh, it's...
Deedi [0:07:02]: I mean, we have six million users or something like that, but I I'm not sure that I could quote you the size of all of our social following.
Deedi [0:07:10]: It's Right.
Deedi [0:07:11]: Pretty awesome.
Deedi [0:07:11]: I I know we have a hundred thousand dollars on Twitter.
Deedi [0:07:14]: We have fifty thousand subscribers on Youtube, but we have a really engaged user forum, like, the the Bubble forum.
Deedi [0:07:21]: We have a really engaged group of, obviously, people who are building in public on Twitter and and our no good and visual development app advocates on Twitter.
Deedi [0:07:29]: We also have a Bubble and ambassador program that our community team runs that's got a lot of the, like, most engaged power users, and both visible users who are, like, helping us test products and, like, they're giving us feedback on messaging, which is, like, really, really helpful, especially in this era where, like, influencer or marketing is just as much of an organic function as it is a paid function.
Erik [0:07:50]: Yeah.
Erik [0:07:50]: It's almost an army of Evangelist out there for you, sort of champion the product and bringing the product to net new customers as well and also helping you shape what the product itself is.
Erik [0:08:01]: So is there one of the levers you're pulling right now that you think it would be interesting to sort of go down, like, what you're doing with it, whether that be one of the main ones you're working on right now or just something that's, like most interesting to you.
Deedi [0:08:15]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:08:15]: So just to sort of answer your previous question about like, the ecosystem of content.
Deedi [0:08:18]: Right?
Deedi [0:08:19]: So I think we've got a pretty standard editorial practice.
Deedi [0:08:21]: We've got the blog.
Deedi [0:08:22]: We've got case studies.
Deedi [0:08:23]: We are really doubling down on, like, Ge o or a I o, whatever.
Deedi [0:08:28]: Tl three letter acronym.
Deedi [0:08:30]: You wanna...
Deedi [0:08:31]: You wanna use for that, but our target audiences on chat More than even, like, your standard person.
Deedi [0:08:36]: Right?
Deedi [0:08:36]: They are already asking Chat, how do I do this?
Deedi [0:08:39]: How do I do that.
Deedi [0:08:40]: And so especially because we focus on being considered in that option set alongside some of these newer competitors in the market.
Deedi [0:08:45]: We're doubling down there, but that's boring because everybody's doing that.
Deedi [0:08:48]: But I just have to put that there that we're also thinking about that a lot.
Deedi [0:08:51]: But What is interesting is so our content team miss five people, including myself.
Deedi [0:08:55]: I have a content manager who's really doing a lot of editing and project managing better it tutorial content, newsletter writing, We have a monthly newsletter that has two additions, one for developers and professional developers or power users and one for what we go and call founders or builders who are, like, less expert.
Deedi [0:09:10]: And so they're very similar, but sometimes the content.
Deedi [0:09:12]: It's a clip show, newsletter, essentially right.
Deedi [0:09:15]: And so that just helps...
Deedi [0:09:16]: It's a content distribution mechanism and, like, keeping us top of mind and giving them some, like, fun inside sneak peaks.
Deedi [0:09:23]: And then I also have our video production manager on my team.
Deedi [0:09:27]: And he is primarily focused on Youtube.
Deedi [0:09:30]: And really, as we...
Deedi [0:09:32]: We're gonna talk more about Youtube later, I'm sure, but we are really shifting into a lot more storytelling, a lot more showing off our own customers and interviews and thought leadership on Youtube.
Deedi [0:09:40]: I have also our enable make content manager, and so he helps us with creating demo apps and showing off product improvements on social as we build in public and also our Bubble academy and educational content.
Deedi [0:09:55]: And then what is most recent and most exciting, I think from, like, a how content teams are working these days perspective is I also have our social media person on my team.
Deedi [0:10:05]: And I love social media.
Deedi [0:10:07]: You see you all these books behind me.
Deedi [0:10:08]: I'm actually lo a book.
Deedi [0:10:09]: Influencer on Instagram Like, I love social media.
Deedi [0:10:12]: And so when I had the opportunity to bring social under the content umbrella, I was so excited because especially in this era of Ai search where social platforms are becoming so much more But also in this world where, like, native content on social is the only way to be successful.
Deedi [0:10:29]: You can no longer fight against the tide where the users don't wanna go off platform.
Deedi [0:10:33]: The platforms don't wanna send people off platform.
Deedi [0:10:35]: Like you can't just, like, send blog posts on Linkedin anymore and expect that to work And so having video and social on my team is really exciting because we can start to treat social as a content function and not just a distribution channel, which is a lot of fun.
Deedi [0:10:51]: Yes.
Deedi [0:10:51]: And I think that those are like, the main areas that think you could hear my voice that social really excites me, but what we're gonna be doing on Youtube is also really, really exciting.
Erik [0:11:00]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:00]: And all these things are, like, to your point, all of these things are integrated together.
Erik [0:11:05]: So having it all under one roof in one team, I think is very important.
Erik [0:11:11]: I have seen quite a few occasions where the teams are sort of siloed, and there's more of, like, a handoff and then, like, reviews and approvals, but there's no connective tissue between them on, like, what is the actual goal we're trying to achieve here and how all of these things are connected.
Erik [0:11:27]: So I think that's amazing that you all are, like, all under one roof like that?
Erik [0:11:32]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:32]: Maybe let's start with social.
Erik [0:11:34]: Like, maybe if you wanna run through, like, what you're finding or seeing with social right now, you could take it from a specific platform standpoint, Maybe one you're going, like, are you focused on one or two primary channels is like, this is the one we're gonna focus on, like, unlocking the most right now, then we'll go to that...
Erik [0:11:53]: We'll get that playbook down, keep putting resources towards that, and then we add the next...
Erik [0:11:58]: Or, like, just broad execution across the board?
Erik [0:12:02]: Or, yeah, How do you think about your social execution.
Deedi [0:12:05]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:12:05]: So our bread and butter channels are Twitter and Linkedin.
Deedi [0:12:09]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:12:10]: I think we have those running pretty well right now, but they're still interesting because they're always changing.
Deedi [0:12:15]: Especially, Linkedin.
Deedi [0:12:16]: I feel like it's really moving towards like short form video and just, like, less like, boring corporate blah blah blah that, like, Linkedin has been an echo chamber for, like a million years and it honestly, it looks still kind of.
Deedi [0:12:27]: Right?
Deedi [0:12:27]: But, like, you gotta play the game.
Deedi [0:12:28]: Right.
Deedi [0:12:28]: But I do think that they're doing fun stuff over there.
Deedi [0:12:30]: And we have our most engaged power users are, like, really active on Twitter.
Deedi [0:12:35]: So we find that the building in public content, like, hey, we changed this little tiny button that kind of product information.
Deedi [0:12:43]: They love it on Twitter.
Deedi [0:12:44]: And so we do a lot of that there, but we also put pretty much everything on Twitter in some format because we have an engaged audience over there.
Deedi [0:12:52]: And also, you're seeing this movement of the industry happening on Twitter.
Deedi [0:12:57]: Right The CEO of some of these other competitors of ours are extremely active on Twitter in extremely unconventional ways, And there's...
Deedi [0:13:04]: Like I said, a lot of oxygen.
Deedi [0:13:05]: Right?
Deedi [0:13:05]: There's just a lot of momentum Npr.
Deedi [0:13:08]: And so, you know, we have over the last few months, like, really accelerated an increase like, our posting cadence just because we...
Deedi [0:13:15]: Like I said, we're really focused on.
Deedi [0:13:17]: That share of voice and that awareness.
Erik [0:13:19]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:13:20]: So we're still innovating, I think in those two platforms that are kind of our bread and butter.
Deedi [0:13:24]: And then we have been really also trying to come back.
Deedi [0:13:29]: I and say, like, start on Instagram because we have been on Instagram, but We especially have a pretty good audience from Brazil.
Deedi [0:13:36]: On Instagram, actually, Brazil is our second largest country by user count after the United States.
Deedi [0:13:42]: And so for a long time, we had as so many contact teams do limitations on getting visual visuals for Instagram Instagram requires visuals.
Deedi [0:13:50]: Right.
Deedi [0:13:50]: So now we would have unblock some of those.
Deedi [0:13:52]: So we really started to, like lean into Instagram a little bit more works excited to play with broadcast channels and things like that.
Deedi [0:13:57]: And then we have Tiktok honestly, like, just a fun office humor, Tiktok at this point, but that, I think speaking of going step by steps.
Deedi [0:14:05]: Right Like, right now, we're kinda like focusing on adding Instagram into the mix alongside Twitter and Linkedin.
Deedi [0:14:10]: And then, of course, we also have to see what happens with Tiktok from a company perspective.
Deedi [0:14:15]: So man can see there who knows.
Deedi [0:14:18]: Let's gonna imagine.
Erik [0:14:19]: Yes.
Erik [0:14:19]: I understand.
Erik [0:14:20]: Yeah.
Erik [0:14:20]: I'm a big fan of that, which is kind of the stair step, but per, like, obviously coverage across channels so that you are visible everywhere, but, like, it is really hard to deeply execute.
Erik [0:14:31]: At the level that's often required on a platform by platform basis, all of them at the same time.
Erik [0:14:38]: There are only so many resources and team members that you can throw at, you know, things at any given time.
Erik [0:14:44]: So I'm a big fan of that.
Erik [0:14:46]: How are you thinking about in the context of social personal accounts versus the company accounts.
Erik [0:14:53]: Is there anything you all are doing to help enable internal...
Erik [0:14:57]: Team members or Smes and things like that to be posting and building up audiences on behalf of what you all are building on their own accounts versus like the company accounts or any learnings there.
Deedi [0:15:11]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:15:11]: That's something I think is on our radar for next year once we sort of, like, we just had...
Deedi [0:15:17]: As you mentioned a couple of big events.
Deedi [0:15:18]: So we're Yeah.
Deedi [0:15:19]: Coming out of product launch mode, but we're definitely right now really focused on our CEO.
Deedi [0:15:24]: And we have always supported them.
Deedi [0:15:26]: But really just like, standing up a much more robust executive comm strategy and supporting them even more in an organic way.
Deedi [0:15:34]: Right?
Deedi [0:15:34]: Like I don't even have emmanuel Twitter login.
Deedi [0:15:37]: He's posting himself.
Deedi [0:15:38]: Right?
Deedi [0:15:38]: But I think, like, as we think about our broader team, there are certainly a couple of people on the team who are already engaged.
Deedi [0:15:45]: Those are our internal Bubble developers.
Deedi [0:15:47]: Like, Bubbles website is a Bubble app.
Deedi [0:15:49]: We call it This is a fun fact.
Deedi [0:15:51]: Here's some lower for you, but the team that works on Bubble.io is called Meta because they're, like, Bubble.
Deedi [0:15:56]: Working on Bubbles.
Erik [0:15:58]: Yes.
Deedi [0:15:59]: So you, like, we'll talk with our contractors and say Meta.
Deedi [0:16:01]: And they're like, you're talking about Facebook and we're like, no.
Deedi [0:16:03]: Sorry.
Deedi [0:16:04]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:16:04]: And, some of our Bubble developers who work on the Meta team are, like, well known on Twitter already because they...
Deedi [0:16:09]: Like, are dog leading the product all the time, and that's a lot of fun, but definitely something that we wanna think about.
Deedi [0:16:14]: I think in the short term, we're more focused on those Bubble ambassadors.
Deedi [0:16:18]: We call them the bands.
Deedi [0:16:18]: Right.
Deedi [0:16:19]: Because they already have those audiences.
Deedi [0:16:20]: And I also think that you just aren't gonna trust a brand as much anymore.
Deedi [0:16:25]: Right?
Deedi [0:16:25]: Like, I think we're just in an era where it's the era of the creator.
Deedi [0:16:29]: And, I mean, like I said, I am one myself in a totally different vertical than the one I work in professionally, but I don't wanna force it on in place who don't already have the audience who aren't honored to talking about those things you don't have any interest in that.
Deedi [0:16:40]: When we have this, like, insanely engaged community already waiting, and they would love our help growing their platforms and them come.
Deedi [0:16:47]: No.
Erik [0:16:48]: Yeah.
Erik [0:16:48]: That is a competitive advantage for sure.
Erik [0:16:50]: You know, there's a lot of companies looking to scale, like, creator programs right now, but they don't have a user base or sort of customer ambassadors in the quantity or not quality from the standpoint of, like, who they are or anything, but more so just like, they already have audiences as well.
Erik [0:17:09]: Like, that is such a good advantage to be able to lean into.
Erik [0:17:12]: And one of the big reasons is just because, like, if even just look at it from this simple standpoint of, like, number of at at bats.
Erik [0:17:19]: Like, so every day, if we can have two hundred times the volume of post going out across dozens and dozens and dozens of accounts with something related to what we're doing a Bubble or Bubble in general because of how all these algorithms work now like, we now have two hundred times more at bats for these to go viral or just whatever to pick up huge amount of awareness and impressions.
Erik [0:17:44]: Because, fortunately, and unfortunately, like, the following numbers where those that follow you is not as, like, valuable.
Erik [0:17:53]: In my opinion, it's still a good north start indicator of, like, are we being successful here and obviously, it's a big asset, but the platforms aren't sending all your stuff to all your followers.
Erik [0:18:02]: The flip side though is that any account really no matter how big how small can have content that goes extremely far.
Erik [0:18:11]: So even just simply from an app perspective across...
Erik [0:18:16]: I mean, whether it's multiple brand accounts, which is also an interesting angle is maybe there's a content format that Bubble wants to do, but it could live on its own handles, basically, or these ambassador accounts or sort of like, create accounts.
Erik [0:18:32]: As well.
Deedi [0:18:33]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:18:33]: I mean, so I am a subscriber to a subs Called lincoln gi bio, written by Rachel Kart, and she has a discord community, and the members of the discord community who are paying subs subscribers.
Deedi [0:18:45]: Were invited to a webinar with the Instagram team.
Deedi [0:18:49]: And this was a room full of brand account managers and yet seventy five percent of the insights that the Instagram team presented us were creator insights.
Deedi [0:19:00]: Mh.
Deedi [0:19:00]: You're like here it works for creators.
Deedi [0:19:02]: This is what we have data on and I'm like, that says a lot about who you're prioritizing.
Erik [0:19:07]: Yes.
Deedi [0:19:07]: And who you're platforming and who you're supporting with a your resources to be successful, and so that's just underscores sort of everything that you just mentioned.
Erik [0:19:15]: Yeah.
Erik [0:19:15]: It can be a bit overwhelming to be honest, but it's also...
Erik [0:19:19]: There's so many opportunities now.
Erik [0:19:22]: There's so many different social channels.
Erik [0:19:24]: There's so many different approaches you could take to multiple accounts or ambassador accounts or different company accounts.
Erik [0:19:32]: So there's just so much opportunity.
Erik [0:19:34]: I feel like, now more than ever to be, like, in content, you know, or social or something like that.
Erik [0:19:40]: As long as we don't feel like...
Erik [0:19:41]: Because it also can be extremely overwhelming.
Erik [0:19:43]: We at the same time, So let's talk about Youtube a little bit.
Erik [0:19:47]: From me outside looking in, you've got a really great engine working right now on Youtube.
Erik [0:19:51]: Your channel looks really fantastic to me.
Erik [0:19:54]: But so could you give me an idea of what you all are sort of prioritizing or executing with Youtube now and you also mentioned you've got some plans in the works as well.
Deedi [0:20:04]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:20:04]: So last year, in twenty twenty four, we had a a very specific initiative of growing our Youtube channel, and we took it from about thirty thousand to fifty thousand followers, which we were really excited about.
Deedi [0:20:14]: Huge...
Deedi [0:20:15]: Credit to my video production manager on my team who led the charge there because it was really successful.
Deedi [0:20:20]: And a big piece of what drove our growth last year was the creation of long form courses with someone who was very well known as an educator in the community.
Deedi [0:20:32]: Mh.
Deedi [0:20:32]: He has his own business, his own channels, but we partnered with him to produce not only, like, a fully new getting started with Bubble course, but also some additional, like, courses and quick tips and whatnot.
Deedi [0:20:45]: And it worked.
Deedi [0:20:46]: It was great.
Deedi [0:20:47]: And part of it was that we were driving to Youtube more than we had done before combined with, like, sort of the well known influencer and also bringing people in via those courses.
Deedi [0:20:58]: I think that while, we are not gonna stop creating education educational content by any means.
Deedi [0:21:02]: We are actually about to fully refresh the Bubble academy.
Deedi [0:21:06]: And, like I mentioned, I do have the name team member who's, like, really working on the academy a lot.
Deedi [0:21:11]: I don't think that this, like, long form course style is a Youtube growth mechanism, like, not even one year later.
Deedi [0:21:18]: Mh.
Deedi [0:21:19]: Especially because our product has changed.
Deedi [0:21:21]: So we just launched Bubble Ai agent, which is conversational editing.
Deedi [0:21:25]: And...
Deedi [0:21:26]: But even earlier this year when we launched Ai generated apps, all of a sudden, we have a fundamental education conundrum, which is people aren't gonna learn how to build something from scratch anymore.
Deedi [0:21:38]: And if they aren't building it from scratch, how do you teach them how to use the platform.
Deedi [0:21:42]: Right?
Deedi [0:21:42]: How do you say here with you go.
Deedi [0:21:44]: We built this app for you.
Deedi [0:21:45]: Here are all the workflows.
Deedi [0:21:47]: Oh, by the way, here's what workflow is.
Erik [0:21:49]: Right.
Deedi [0:21:49]: Right?
Deedi [0:21:49]: Look, that's crazy actually.
Deedi [0:21:51]: And so I think that we are...
Deedi [0:21:53]: Really moving towards the place where the Bubble Ai agent can also help educate you as it makes you.
Deedi [0:22:00]: Edits for you and teaches you you can ask them how to do things that has contacts on your app?
Deedi [0:22:03]: And so then the question is how do we provide education that fits in this frankly attention span of people who wanna build apps by just like asking a chatbot to do it for them.
Deedi [0:22:13]: Right?
Deedi [0:22:14]: Like, they're even less likely to spend twenty hours in a fundamentals course.
Deedi [0:22:18]: And so how do you build the next generation of certified Bubble developers who understand platform inside and out when they're starting from this place.
Deedi [0:22:25]: So that's something that I don't have the answer to quite yet.
Deedi [0:22:27]: We're working toward through it as I mentioned.
Deedi [0:22:29]: But for that reason, our Youtube strategy for that reason, and then also paired with this fact that we are really hyper focused on awareness and share of voice, platform we are gonna be evolving our Youtube strategy to being so much more customer focused.
Deedi [0:22:43]: And by that, I mean, putting our customers on our Youtube channel.
Erik [0:22:48]: Yes.
Deedi [0:22:48]: Right?
Deedi [0:22:48]: We want to tell their stories, we want to celebrate their product launches.
Deedi [0:22:52]: We want to connect our community with the expertise of people who have built legitimate scaled businesses.
Deedi [0:23:00]: Like, we have one formula bot.
Deedi [0:23:02]: Has a million users.
Deedi [0:23:03]: It's one guy at that company.
Deedi [0:23:05]: Like that's so cool.
Deedi [0:23:06]: Right?
Deedi [0:23:07]: Like, I don't know if any of those other competitors.
Deedi [0:23:09]: Say the thing.
Deedi [0:23:10]: Apps like that I that.
Deedi [0:23:11]: Right?
Deedi [0:23:11]: Like so it's really exciting.
Deedi [0:23:13]: We are in the middle of sort of transitioning some of our processes to really support that.
Deedi [0:23:17]: How do we make sure we have a steady pipeline, Like, how are we partnering with the community team to make sure that, like, they're connecting us with the opportunities in these stories, and it's all very, very exciting, but I think we're gonna be doubling down on storytelling, doubling down on, like, a casual exactly what you and Doing right now, like a podcast style q and a tell me what you learned.
Erik [0:23:36]: Yes.
Deedi [0:23:36]: And so I'm really excited about it.
Deedi [0:23:38]: And I think that my video production manager who really loves storytelling.
Erik [0:23:42]: Yes.
Deedi [0:23:43]: Is especially excited that even more of his job.
Deedi [0:23:45]: Gets to be focused on this kind of thing.
Deedi [0:23:47]: Especially because, like, talking to users and hearing about them, like that's my favorite part.
Deedi [0:23:50]: Right?
Deedi [0:23:50]: We are so many cool and world changing Bubble apps out there.
Deedi [0:23:56]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:23:56]: We have one in our story of a company that does, like, the back end processing of connecting people like, organs that are ready to be donated and, like, transporting them very, very quickly to people who need to receive them.
Deedi [0:24:09]: And, like, they have saved people's lives like, and the hours and hours that they save with their Bubble app in the back end, means that these, like, viable organs like make it in time.
Deedi [0:24:18]: It's just like, that's kinda stuff to hear about as a pre content marketer.
Deedi [0:24:21]: I'm like this why I'm here.
Deedi [0:24:22]: Right?
Deedi [0:24:22]: Like what else do you need?
Erik [0:24:24]: Yes.
Erik [0:24:24]: I love this.
Erik [0:24:26]: I love this.
Erik [0:24:26]: I do think that this...
Erik [0:24:28]: Obviously, there's different approaches depending on your market and your expertise and your resources and stuff like this.
Erik [0:24:36]: But this idea, I think is a really, really, really strong one, and there are some examples.
Erik [0:24:41]: I have seen and we've helped with as well.
Erik [0:24:44]: But basically, kind of what you're describing is to me the most evolved version of a case study where it's almost like having your broccoli wrapped inside of candy or whatever.
Erik [0:24:59]: You know, Like, for all the parents out there because an example of this is if you've heard of owner.com.
Erik [0:25:05]: I don't know if you have it or not, but there a software platform, that helps restaurant owners basically have all of the the website, a, like, app for ordering.
Erik [0:25:17]: A lot of restaurant owners could maybe actually use Bubble to create these things too, but this is kinda like in a box like done for you.
Erik [0:25:23]: Yeah.
Erik [0:25:24]: And one thing they did was create almost like a bar rescue or hotel impossible type episode with one of their restaurant owners and the founder actually, like, flew to them.
Erik [0:25:38]: It was like an episode about what they were doing at the restaurant, and then ideas and things they could do, and then they actually did in the episode to make them more successful, but the platform was a through line.
Erik [0:25:49]: Inside of all of that.
Deedi [0:25:51]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:25:51]: If there's one thing that people are talking about in the social media space specifically.
Deedi [0:25:56]: It is episodic content.
Erik [0:25:58]: Right.
Erik [0:25:58]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:25:59]: Tiktok is a new TV.
Deedi [0:26:00]: Right?
Erik [0:26:01]: Yes.
Deedi [0:26:01]: Like, you're like, oh, my shows on.
Deedi [0:26:02]: Right?
Deedi [0:26:03]: When, like, you get some on your for you page.
Deedi [0:26:05]: And, like, even Instagram released a feature that lets you link real to one another here.
Deedi [0:26:09]: Like, this is literally a series so that people can go back and find it.
Deedi [0:26:13]: And that was in that session that I mentioned earlier that I attended with lincoln Bio.
Deedi [0:26:17]: One of their top recommendations was have a recurring character, have a recurring team.
Deedi [0:26:22]: Like, day five of testing new, like recipes until we get it right or whatever.
Deedi [0:26:27]: Right?
Deedi [0:26:28]: And so episodic content, that is also very top of mind for.
Deedi [0:26:31]: Like, are we gonna tap into that and do that in a way that feels really authentic and really centers the expertise and, like, the experiences of our founders and our community.
Erik [0:26:40]: Series based because it gives people a reason to wanna hit followed, like, comment, what have you so that they get the next installment of the series.
Erik [0:26:47]: Basically.
Erik [0:26:47]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:48]: And people are watching the stuff on their living room TVs.
Erik [0:26:50]: Like, I've just had a lot of conversations with a lot of marketers, and I just asked them.
Erik [0:26:54]: How are you consuming content and a huge percentage of them are like, yeah.
Erik [0:26:59]: I watch Youtube.
Erik [0:26:59]: I don't watch TV anymore.
Erik [0:27:01]: I'm watching my favorite Youtube shows, which are just whatever channels like it can be from a company a creator, or whatever.
Erik [0:27:08]: There are lessons that can be had outside of how the platform helped those people that the person watching can get, whether it's inspiration, ideas, tactics, but the platform is a through line through all of that.
Erik [0:27:20]: And so it's like, it widen the aperture for how many people can basically watch...
Erik [0:27:26]: Nobody wants to really watch an ad.
Erik [0:27:29]: But, like, don't watch a show that has cool stuff inside of it.
Erik [0:27:32]: So...
Deedi [0:27:33]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:27:33]: I have been pushing my team to think about that a lot more, especially because we do...
Deedi [0:27:39]: I mean, our sales team loves the traditional case studies.
Deedi [0:27:43]: So we do still create those and more great stories.
Deedi [0:27:46]: But the content that can be reproduced out of them, just lends itself to just, like, testimonials.
Deedi [0:27:50]: Right?
Deedi [0:27:51]: And we want people to know the Bubble is great.
Deedi [0:27:53]: So we're like, oh, this is such a great quote.
Deedi [0:27:55]: And I'm like, nobody's is gonna care.
Deedi [0:27:56]: Right?
Deedi [0:27:56]: Like, we were looking for a while.
Deedi [0:27:58]: We were sharing like, clip, of my, like, Google hangout with founders when I'm doing these intake interviews for these showcase stories, these case studies.
Deedi [0:28:06]: And they're not, like, the most produced right and, but they didn't perform very well.
Deedi [0:28:10]: And my social media person was like I think it's because, like, not well.
Deedi [0:28:13]: And I was, I think it's because so it's a testimonial.
Deedi [0:28:16]: And nobody cares about testimonials.
Deedi [0:28:17]: Actually, Right?
Deedi [0:28:18]: Like, especially on Instagram, like, maybe it fits on Linkedin.
Deedi [0:28:21]: And so this idea of how do you make sure that you are providing value in this content for the watcher that you are giving them what they need a not telling them what you want them to know.
Erik [0:28:32]: Exactly.
Deedi [0:28:32]: And that is so hard as a content marketer to do and to remember to do because this instincts go the other way.
Erik [0:28:40]: Yes.
Deedi [0:28:40]: But it's really important.
Erik [0:28:41]: Yes.
Erik [0:28:41]: Like the product in those cases, and I still think super bottom of funnel testimonials and case studies that are put front of people who are literally like, I'm trying to make a decision today.
Erik [0:28:51]: Those are...
Deedi [0:28:52]: Especially like at large companies enterprise.
Erik [0:28:54]: Absolutely.
Erik [0:28:54]: Like, those are incredibly valuable.
Erik [0:28:56]: But this is actually just taking that to a more evolved version to widen, like the potential audience that would actually care about it.
Erik [0:29:04]: And so your product can be the hero in the story, but your product is not the point of the story.
Deedi [0:29:11]: And I think our product is the side kick.
Deedi [0:29:12]: I think the exact founder is here.
Deedi [0:29:14]: Yeah.
Erik [0:29:14]: Yeah.
Erik [0:29:14]: There you go.
Erik [0:29:15]: I love that.
Erik [0:29:16]: Okay.
Erik [0:29:16]: Cool.
Erik [0:29:16]: Anything else with that that you're thinking about or any other...
Erik [0:29:21]: Like, whether it be the newsletter or any other sort of channel that you found really exciting or interesting lately that you wanna to kinda go into.
Deedi [0:29:30]: I think those are the the main ones our top of mind.
Deedi [0:29:32]: Our our team is really excited to...
Deedi [0:29:34]: I mean, it's not just content that's gonna be shifting and telling more customer stories.
Deedi [0:29:37]: Like this has become it we are doubling down on it as a marketing strategy.
Deedi [0:29:41]: And that, I think the entire marketing team is really excited about.
Erik [0:29:44]: Yeah.
Erik [0:29:44]: That's awesome.
Erik [0:29:44]: So how do you look at the success Kpis metrics, what have you, and it doesn't have to be this could be more philosophical because, like, content that is effective is often very hard to measure from a purely attribution standpoint.
Erik [0:30:02]: But I'm just curious philosophically or big picture, how you all look at, like, is this content achieving what we wanted to achieve?
Deedi [0:30:10]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:30:10]: It's a good question.
Deedi [0:30:11]: And we are in the middle of figuring that out all over again as our category has shifted as our marketing strategy is shifting, as the world is shifting because we spent a lot of time this year shipping really cool features.
Deedi [0:30:25]: And so we were really heads down on just getting the word out.
Deedi [0:30:28]: And so we've kind of, like, now we're like, okay.
Deedi [0:30:30]: Let's go back and, like, re attach the metrics to these things that we just haven't been, like, not that we're not watching them, but, like, they haven't been guiding us as much as, like, oh we need to tell people that we launch something very cool.
Erik [0:30:40]: Right.
Deedi [0:30:41]: So we rely primarily on self reported attribution.
Deedi [0:30:45]: So we do a lot of Atms, a lot of segment events, but then also, we have a mandatory onboarding survey, which like one question hard to hear about us, and we use that for a lot of...
Deedi [0:30:54]: Obviously, it's not perfect.
Deedi [0:30:55]: And we're evolving it all the time, like, we used to have Youtube there.
Deedi [0:30:58]: Now It says chat Instead.
Deedi [0:30:59]: Right?
Deedi [0:30:59]: And so...
Deedi [0:31:00]: For that reason, we are able to track things like Mr or new paying users that came from organic channels.
Deedi [0:31:07]: I think we're most heavily focused in that regard on search.
Deedi [0:31:11]: That includes both traditional search and also these days, Ai search and LL search.
Deedi [0:31:15]: And so we are also in the middle right now of establishing baseline Kpis around things like citation rate for LL search that we're gonna be benchmarking off of.
Deedi [0:31:25]: But that's, I think a leading indicator like, traffic and, like, page views from organic search and whatnot are leading indicators for some of like, downstream, like, revenue drivers.
Deedi [0:31:34]: And so it's very refreshing to work for a VP of marketing who understands that we can focus on those leading indicators because they're much easier to influence.
Deedi [0:31:41]: When you're putting out content versus always anchoring on, especially, like, for us, you don't pay for the product until you're ready to launch.
Deedi [0:31:48]: So Right.
Deedi [0:31:49]: New paying users.
Deedi [0:31:50]: I can't affect October today.
Deedi [0:31:53]: I might not even be getting effect November today.
Deedi [0:31:55]: Right?
Deedi [0:31:56]: Like...
Deedi [0:31:56]: But I can affect traffic and, sign ups and things like that.
Deedi [0:31:59]: So those are, like, probably our North stars there.
Deedi [0:32:01]: And then for social, we are this quarter paying really close attention to a combination of impressions and engagements.
Deedi [0:32:09]: And we tried to choose between the two of them, and we couldn't...
Deedi [0:32:13]: Because if you over index on impressions, then you are just gonna put out, click baby stuff.
Erik [0:32:21]: Memes.
Deedi [0:32:21]: Right.
Deedi [0:32:21]: Exactly Memes.
Deedi [0:32:22]: And if you are over focusing on engagement, then you are gonna post things that your current audience is gonna love, and not gonna actually grow your audience at all because it's for existing users.
Deedi [0:32:32]: Right?
Deedi [0:32:33]: So I was like, we actually need to pay attention to both of them so that we don't accidentally create these, like, per reverse incentives against ourselves, especially when the, like, North star company metric right now is growth.
Deedi [0:32:45]: Right.
Erik [0:32:46]: So super smart.
Deedi [0:32:47]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:32:47]: Exactly.
Deedi [0:32:47]: So it's an adventure.
Deedi [0:32:48]: I'm really excited to head into twenty twenty six with some of these, like, a lines, a lot more established and you have a little bit more of a sense of exactly what we wanna report out on a weekly basis, etcetera, etcetera.
Erik [0:33:00]: Yeah.
Erik [0:33:00]: I love that.
Erik [0:33:01]: And it's a hard problem, but I think it's a great point of view basically to have, like, we need to be on these channels.
Erik [0:33:08]: Our users, our prospects, our customers are there.
Erik [0:33:11]: So to me, sometimes there can be this thought.
Erik [0:33:14]: Of will this channel work for us.
Erik [0:33:16]: And then you look at it, you sort of assess it.
Erik [0:33:20]: You've test it, like, a full strategy on it for a very short window of time.
Erik [0:33:24]: And then you look at Ut based sign ups.
Erik [0:33:27]: And you're like, this channel actually did not perform very well.
Erik [0:33:31]: But all of these channels work.
Erik [0:33:33]: Every single one of them, if there's one single competitor or adjacent in your category that's using it and they are successful on the platform, then you can be too.
Erik [0:33:43]: So to me, it's not about, like, will it work I think the point of all this is, like, we need to be where our customers are and customers are on a lot of platforms these days.
Erik [0:33:51]: So we need to be smart about maybe which ones we choose and prioritize and focus on, so we don't bite off one we can chew.
Erik [0:33:57]: But then it's about kinda what you mentioned in my opinion of, like, in platform.
Erik [0:34:00]: In platform based success.
Erik [0:34:03]: Are we actually being successful in the channel, not...
Erik [0:34:07]: Can we see how many people clicked from the link over to our website?
Erik [0:34:11]: Because that gets a little fuzz.
Erik [0:34:13]: Like, not everybody does that.
Erik [0:34:14]: Maybe they've been following your Youtube?
Erik [0:34:16]: But they also follow your Twitter.
Deedi [0:34:18]: You shouldn't even be sharing just like a link.
Deedi [0:34:19]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:34:20]: Exactly.
Deedi [0:34:21]: Well...
Deedi [0:34:22]: Exactly.
Erik [0:34:23]: And then, like, they're on your newsletter.
Erik [0:34:24]: So it's, like, which one of these?
Erik [0:34:26]: Actually, like, if you're looking for, like, which one was the thing, It's almost the wrong question because, like...
Deedi [0:34:32]: Right.
Erik [0:34:33]: It's really all of them together.
Erik [0:34:34]: It's a content ecosystem.
Erik [0:34:35]: And if you're doing the channels the best to your point.
Erik [0:34:39]: You're not pushing people for a conversion.
Erik [0:34:42]: If you do a good job, educating them, them trusting you, them liking you.
Erik [0:34:48]: When they're ready to do something.
Erik [0:34:50]: They're gonna just go to Google to your point.
Erik [0:34:52]: And so that's where it's like branded search is one leading indicator in in terms of social or content.
Erik [0:34:57]: It actually would be a lagging indicator of already being effective on those channels and then that leads to a branded search.
Deedi [0:35:06]: So I actually, like, we're seeing branded search.
Deedi [0:35:08]: I mean, we've always had really strong branded search because we've been around so long.
Deedi [0:35:11]: Yes.
Deedi [0:35:11]: We've such a big community.
Deedi [0:35:12]: So it's been, like, oh, how do we fix that?
Deedi [0:35:14]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:15]: Like, how do we, like, increase non branded search.
Deedi [0:35:17]: And these days, I'm like, I think that an increase in branded search actually means they found us on Chad Gp.
Erik [0:35:22]: Oh, yes.
Erik [0:35:23]: Yes.
Erik [0:35:23]: Yes.
Erik [0:35:24]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:35:24]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:24]: Like, that's actually not a bad thing.
Deedi [0:35:26]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:26]: If you're like Ge metrics are going up and then you're seeing a lot of branded search.
Deedi [0:35:29]: That's what's happening there.
Deedi [0:35:30]: Probably.
Deedi [0:35:31]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:31]: But you wanna know what?
Deedi [0:35:33]: This is, like, uncomfortable.
Deedi [0:35:34]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:34]: Like, I had to, like, really sell it Like, I was, like, we were going through, like, what are the metrics that we care about, and we're talking about social, like, right after we move social onto to the content team and they were like, oh, traffic from social.
Deedi [0:35:46]: And I was like, stop.
Deedi [0:35:46]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:35:47]: Stop stop asking you to care about traffic from social because it's not gonna do what you want.
Deedi [0:35:51]: And you wanna know what?
Deedi [0:35:52]: It's a lot harder for us to measure, and I understand that because now if I assess the success of a campaign, I have to pull together blog views and this post views and this post views and this post views and maybe add them together, and that doesn't sound fun for me, but that's what we have to do.
Deedi [0:36:07]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:36:08]: If you want to actually do the thing the right way.
Erik [0:36:13]: Yes.
Erik [0:36:13]: Exactly.
Erik [0:36:14]: And so it's interesting too because, like, logically, I think if you're talking to anybody that all makes sense.
Erik [0:36:20]: It's like, what's your behavior on Twitter?
Erik [0:36:22]: Are you going to the people's thing and clicking their Url and then converting right there from the, like, you're not?
Deedi [0:36:28]: How many times you go to somebody's Linkedin bio.
Erik [0:36:30]: Exactly.
Erik [0:36:30]: But if you like are in a need for, like, something, you just go to your role of x in your mind Of, like, who have I've been paying attention to who do I like in that space?
Erik [0:36:39]: And that's the purpose honestly of this whole show is like, how do you get to be six months from now, one of the top three vendors that somebody is immediately putting on their shortlist list.
Erik [0:36:52]: Because they already know about you from the content you've been creating for them.
Erik [0:36:57]: And to me, that's like the holy grail of all of this.
Erik [0:37:00]: It it's frustrating enough, it is extremely hard to measure all of that and connect that.
Erik [0:37:06]: And I understand, like, the challenge with that connecting that with, like, exact teams and leadership teams on, like, well, how do we actually know if this is working or not?
Erik [0:37:15]: It's a difficult problem.
Erik [0:37:16]: The teams that I think fundamentally understand it of a huge competitive advantage.
Erik [0:37:22]: Against the ones the content teams that have, like, one hand tied behind their back because they're being kinda measured against extreme quantitative click based things.
Deedi [0:37:32]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:37:32]: I mean, there's also a resource privilege there too.
Deedi [0:37:36]: Right?
Deedi [0:37:37]: Like, if you're a one man team?
Erik [0:37:38]: Yes.
Deedi [0:37:39]: It is so much harder for you to make a case for you spending time on things that you cannot track.
Erik [0:37:43]: Yes.
Deedi [0:37:44]: And so I don't take that for granted either.
Erik [0:37:47]: Yes.
Erik [0:37:47]: How do you think about paid within all of this.
Erik [0:37:53]: So there is a few concepts of paid in relation to organic as well.
Erik [0:37:59]: So in a lot of cases now, like, organic can be the leading piece of content to find out what people are like, responding to and what outperform amongst like, a standard post or video or what have you.
Erik [0:38:16]: And then that itself can be repurposed into an actual ad that you run or a whole number of different things.
Erik [0:38:24]: Have you all experimented with, like, any organic plus paid things together?
Erik [0:38:29]: What's your opinion on that stuff?
Deedi [0:38:31]: I would love to do more of that with my growth team in the future.
Deedi [0:38:35]: I feel like sometimes like the stars have to align on the content that each team is focusing on for that to work and that's just hasn't necessarily been the case in, like, recent months.
Deedi [0:38:44]: But I think that...
Deedi [0:38:45]: I mean, we have certainly tested, putting some dollars behind or, like, editorial content and then running retargeting and boosting, like, organic social posts, especially when we have something that we wanna drive like a hack or something, like, very fun like that.
Deedi [0:39:00]: But I think that right now, the biggest gray area between my growth team in terms of paid marketing and my team is influencers.
Deedi [0:39:11]: Mh.
Deedi [0:39:12]: Because we have a paid influencer program that they are running.
Deedi [0:39:16]: And that is about going out and finding people who are not part of talking about Bubble already.
Deedi [0:39:21]: Yes.
Deedi [0:39:21]: Who are maybe totally unrelated.
Deedi [0:39:23]: Right?
Deedi [0:39:24]: Like, or tangent generally related to our industry and finding the right fit or, like, very fun things like going and finding people who have been unsuccessful on other platforms and being, like, come rebuild on Bubble and building in public.
Deedi [0:39:38]: You know what I mean?
Deedi [0:39:39]: Like, Yeah.
Deedi [0:39:39]: Well, who's your post whatever, which is like a...
Deedi [0:39:41]: I think, really fun because watching people build in public on Bubble is just Great fun.
Deedi [0:39:46]: Yes.
Deedi [0:39:47]: So they have that.
Deedi [0:39:48]: And then for us, you know, we're working really closely with, like I mentioned with the community team with the Bubble ambassadors and how do we enable people who are already talking about it.
Deedi [0:39:56]: So we...
Deedi [0:39:56]: Like, not that we're not gonna pay them ever But, like, there's a much more organic partnership with these people because the more inside info we give them the better for them.
Deedi [0:40:05]: Right?
Deedi [0:40:05]: And they're following and whatnot.
Deedi [0:40:06]: So we are able to work with them in a way, Like, that's what they signed up for.
Deedi [0:40:11]: Like, they want to have a relationship with our team.
Deedi [0:40:14]: And so we're a lot more focused on these, but those things obviously.
Deedi [0:40:17]: Mh.
Deedi [0:40:17]: Like sometimes do overlap.
Deedi [0:40:19]: We just had to use our conferences in Europe.
Deedi [0:40:21]: And so we did have a couple of our ambassadors who reached out and said, can we put together a contract for...
Deedi [0:40:26]: Sponsored posts and we were like, yeah, Let's do it.
Deedi [0:40:28]: Right?
Deedi [0:40:29]: So Yes.
Deedi [0:40:29]: I think there...
Deedi [0:40:30]: There's, like, only up to go from there in the ways that, like I partnered with growth on that program.
Erik [0:40:34]: Totally.
Erik [0:40:34]: Yeah.
Erik [0:40:35]: And I think there's gonna be a lot more opportunity for organic plus paid.
Erik [0:40:40]: In the form of just brand organic plus paid, but also the, like, the influencer side of things because I think we're gonna find more, like, a huge increase in Sm creators and whether or not they turn, like, into really huge have huge following sort of business type creators or they're super niche, but I think there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for companies to, like, partner with them whether to, like, white list their content as ads or some sort of integrated campaign or they're just posting on behalf of the company, whatever the case may be.
Deedi [0:41:22]: Right.
Erik [0:41:23]: So I think sometimes, it can be playing on hard mode just doing, like, pure organic.
Erik [0:41:30]: And I think there is an interesting relationship between complain including on Youtube, you can run Youtube ads to your organic Youtube videos to be able to have your video that you've already proven successful and maybe it's thirty days past your, like, publish date for that, and you're like, oh, this one.
Erik [0:41:52]: The community's really resonating with, you can get more legs.
Erik [0:41:57]: You can get more people to watch that video and instead of putting in a Youtube ad to go sign up for Bubble.
Erik [0:42:03]: You put a Youtube ad for that video to appear as a suggested video on the right hand side or on the for you page, and you can mark people who watch these other channels.
Erik [0:42:14]: I want them to be the ones who get served this video or here's our newsletter with our opt ins, our email opt ins and we'd like to make sure as many of these people as possible.
Erik [0:42:25]: So there is targeting capabilities inside of Youtube to get the most reach out of your already successful organic Youtube content, stuff like that.
Erik [0:42:33]: So, yeah, I'm pretty bullish on that.
Erik [0:42:35]: Any other, like, things you're excited about or think is, like, an interesting observation you've had related to just content execution lately as we kinda round things out here.
Deedi [0:42:47]: I think that covers it.
Erik [0:42:49]: Awesome.
Erik [0:42:49]: Well, this has been amazing.
Erik [0:42:51]: I really appreciate you kinda walking us through that.
Erik [0:42:54]: I would recommend for everybody Number one, to go check out all the content channels we just described, so that you can see it in action.
Erik [0:43:03]: So go to Bubbles.
Erik [0:43:04]: Youtube, social channels, sign up for the newsletter, and then, obviously, if you are looking to, like, build something, sign up for Bubble.
Erik [0:43:14]: Like, I'll give a direct CTA there.
Erik [0:43:17]: Go sign up for Bubble.
Erik [0:43:19]: And then Did, anywhere else you would recommend people to go to like, connect with you or just check out something specific,
Deedi [0:43:26]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:43:26]: So I'm on Linkedin, but I'm gonna tell you if you send me a connection and you don't put a message in there.
Deedi [0:43:30]: I'm gonna ignore you.
Deedi [0:43:32]: So if you really want me to accept your connection, let me know that you came from the podcast, basically and that you're also content marketer or whatnot.
Deedi [0:43:39]: But I'm most active on Instagram at Did Reads, which is a little bit of a self plug, but that's truly where I hang out the time, and I I run a sub stack as well related to books.
Deedi [0:43:48]: So that's my...
Deedi [0:43:49]: Like, to say I do that by night and very early morning and everywhere in between.
Deedi [0:43:53]: But, yeah, Find man Linkedin.
Deedi [0:43:54]: If you're interested in connecting professionally and let's chat books If you're also interested in talking about books.
Erik [0:44:01]: Love it.
Erik [0:44:01]: Awesome.
Erik [0:44:01]: Well, thank you, Deedi.
Erik [0:44:02]: This has been great.
Deedi [0:44:04]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:44:04]: This has been great.
Erik [0:00:03]: I'm Erik Jacobson, welcome to 95% Content.
Erik [0:00:08]: A show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the ninety percent of buyers who are out of market today, but we'll be ready to buy in the future.
Erik [0:00:16]: Alright.
Erik [0:00:21]: Well, Deedi, thank you for joining me today.
Erik [0:00:23]: I'm excited to chat for those who don't know you're the Head of Content at Bubble.
Erik [0:00:28]: I'm sure a ton of people that listen to the show if not, almost everybody has heard of Bubble.
Erik [0:00:33]: And I think, you know, a lot of the reason for that will be some of the stuff that we talk about today related to your content strategies specifically.
Erik [0:00:42]: But for anybody, the small portion of the audience who doesn't know.
Erik [0:00:46]: So Bubble is essentially a platform that can help you build an app, product, website, an Ai tool, all for the most part without knowing how to code.
Deedi [0:00:57]: A hundred percent without knowing how to code.
Erik [0:00:59]: A hundred percent without knowing how to code in and frankly, that category has gotten a lot of attention and further of late, but you all have been doing this for a very long time, potentially even, you know, one of the earliest or if not the earliest, really, really sort of bringing this sort of product to market and champion these capabilities essentially.
Erik [0:01:20]: So really, what I'm excited to chat about today is the content approaches you have done or are currently doing that have helped you build up that mind share.
Erik [0:01:32]: Because mind share, sitting at one of the key industry leader positions is not easy to attain.
Erik [0:01:41]: And so maybe the first place we could start is if we just take the highest level perspective of this, From a content and marketing perspective, you've got those in market, looking for a solution today.
Erik [0:01:54]: It's usually a very small portion of the market, five percent or less.
Erik [0:01:57]: Thinking to themselves, I need to find a tool like Bubble.
Erik [0:02:01]: And they're going to Google, asking friends, whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:02:04]: And then you've got the much larger portion of the market who's not necessarily actively looking, but maybe they will...
Erik [0:02:11]: They're still the right persona, and it's likely they will be in market at some point, and we want them to know about us.
Erik [0:02:18]: In the future.
Erik [0:02:19]: What percentage breakdown or how you think about those two different camps when it comes to your content strategy?
Erik [0:02:26]: Do you focus primarily on one or the other, like, how do you think about that in general
Deedi [0:02:31]: That's a good question.
Deedi [0:02:32]: I have to admit that I don't, like, specifically think about that a lot these days in those exact terms because we are undergoing a massive category shift right now.
Deedi [0:02:44]: Not just like us, although that is also drew, like, Bubble specifically, but also our industry in general, You know, a year ago, we would have been talking about an entirely different competitor set, then Bubble is, like, frankly caring about these days.
Deedi [0:02:58]: And moving away from this no code era, which we kind of see is, like, the first era was no code and and Bubble, like you mentioned is been around for over ten years.
Deedi [0:03:06]: We really pioneered in hand in hand with our users.
Deedi [0:03:08]: Like, this no code era, and it was great.
Deedi [0:03:11]: And we had a lot of growth there, and we were able to build a massive community, which is, like, honestly one of our biggest assets, but there were a lot of people who didn't know that it's actually possible for you to build an application or build software yourself without knowing how to code or hiring a dev team, growth and then we had this, like, second era, which is what we like to call the vibe coating era, and you saw lovable and rep and v zero and all of these others enter the scene, and that has not only shifted the entire industry and what it means to have product market fit and whatnot, but it also did us a huge favor in the fact that people know that you can build your own software now.
Deedi [0:03:46]: Right?
Deedi [0:03:46]: Like the number of people who used to be divided into those two categories that you mentioned?
Deedi [0:03:51]: Yes.
Deedi [0:03:51]: Is so much less black and white.
Erik [0:03:54]: Yes.
Deedi [0:03:54]: Than it used to be because now we're, like, do you consider us in the auction set alongside lovable, and that's our part at the moment.
Deedi [0:04:02]: Right?
Deedi [0:04:02]: Because lovable has a lot of oxygen in the media, but there are a lot of shortcomings because
Erik [0:04:08]: mh
Deedi [0:04:09]: Sure you can create an app.
Deedi [0:04:10]: Right?
Deedi [0:04:10]: But, like, it's still code.
Erik [0:04:12]: Right.
Deedi [0:04:13]: Like you still know how to code.
Deedi [0:04:13]: Then what you gonna do?
Deedi [0:04:14]: Like, it's still code.
Deedi [0:04:15]: And so really, like, a lot of these vibe coding platforms are band aids on the problem that we set out to solve over ten years ago.
Deedi [0:04:22]: The the competitor is still code.
Deedi [0:04:24]: Right?
Deedi [0:04:24]: The idea is still, but you don't need to know how to code.
Deedi [0:04:27]: You don't need how to read it.
Deedi [0:04:28]: You don't need to have to interact with it at all.
Deedi [0:04:30]: So we have gone from this idea of people need to, like, know that there are alternatives to code to people need to know that there's a better way than just having Ai fit out code for you.
Deedi [0:04:40]: There are alternatives to code.
Deedi [0:04:42]: Right.
Deedi [0:04:42]: And so this entire calendar year has really been a focus from us on a content perspective of that share of voice question, and that category shift question, bit So we are obviously still very focused on things like acquisition metrics, but we are much more laser focused on share of voice metrics and awareness metrics.
Erik [0:05:05]: Absolutely.
Erik [0:05:05]: Yeah.
Erik [0:05:06]: It's almost, like the market education you all have been doing, which is frankly, very difficult from a content and marketing perspective.
Erik [0:05:16]: There's been a lot of gasoline port on that fire for you with, like, just this entire sort of ecosystem.
Erik [0:05:23]: And now to your point, it's about, like, redirecting your wedge in, like, sort of the positioning and the strategic narrative, it sounds like, to being amongst those options seen as a comparable or better option in in you know, for certain segments or personas.
Erik [0:05:39]: So what sort of mechanisms if we look at your content ecosystem.
Erik [0:05:45]: You know, whatever prioritization of those channels or, you tactics you're using right now whether that be Youtube newsletter.
Erik [0:05:53]: I know community's is a big one for you all.
Erik [0:05:55]: You did a couple really big events recently.
Erik [0:05:58]: So you've got...
Erik [0:05:59]: Obviously, social.
Erik [0:06:00]: Could you just run us through, like, quick high level of what those things are, and then maybe we could go into some of the stuff you're doing with them.
Deedi [0:06:08]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:06:08]: Totally.
Deedi [0:06:08]: So let me just first say that we have a community team on the marketing team, and they are rocking and enrolling with live events and whatnot.
Deedi [0:06:16]: So thankfully, because that's not my super skill set that doesn't fall underneath my content org.
Deedi [0:06:20]: But obviously, we work really, really closely with them.
Deedi [0:06:23]: And because our community is, Say it again, like, our company's greatest asset.
Deedi [0:06:27]: I mean, there's an entire industry of Bubble developers who are building professional, like, agencies with hundreds of Bubble developers who are building Bubble apps for other people like, that's something that Aria has a content marketer never take for granted.
Deedi [0:06:40]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:40]: Because you help people who are so invested in the brand and want to read the content that you create and want to watch the videos that you produce, content marketers know that that's...
Deedi [0:06:48]: You don't know if get that.
Deedi [0:06:49]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:49]: I in intern in college for, like, a hearing aid company.
Deedi [0:06:52]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:52]: Like, I worked at a high net worth insurance company.
Deedi [0:06:54]: Nobody cared about float switches whatever.
Deedi [0:06:57]: Right?
Deedi [0:06:57]: So it's such a joy to
Erik [0:06:59]: create community.
Erik [0:07:00]: If you don't mind me.
Erik [0:07:01]: Like...
Erik [0:07:01]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:07:02]: Oh, it's...
Deedi [0:07:02]: I mean, we have six million users or something like that, but I I'm not sure that I could quote you the size of all of our social following.
Deedi [0:07:10]: It's Right.
Deedi [0:07:11]: Pretty awesome.
Deedi [0:07:11]: I I know we have a hundred thousand dollars on Twitter.
Deedi [0:07:14]: We have fifty thousand subscribers on Youtube, but we have a really engaged user forum, like, the the Bubble forum.
Deedi [0:07:21]: We have a really engaged group of, obviously, people who are building in public on Twitter and and our no good and visual development app advocates on Twitter.
Deedi [0:07:29]: We also have a Bubble and ambassador program that our community team runs that's got a lot of the, like, most engaged power users, and both visible users who are, like, helping us test products and, like, they're giving us feedback on messaging, which is, like, really, really helpful, especially in this era where, like, influencer or marketing is just as much of an organic function as it is a paid function.
Erik [0:07:50]: Yeah.
Erik [0:07:50]: It's almost an army of Evangelist out there for you, sort of champion the product and bringing the product to net new customers as well and also helping you shape what the product itself is.
Erik [0:08:01]: So is there one of the levers you're pulling right now that you think it would be interesting to sort of go down, like, what you're doing with it, whether that be one of the main ones you're working on right now or just something that's, like most interesting to you.
Deedi [0:08:15]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:08:15]: So just to sort of answer your previous question about like, the ecosystem of content.
Deedi [0:08:18]: Right?
Deedi [0:08:19]: So I think we've got a pretty standard editorial practice.
Deedi [0:08:21]: We've got the blog.
Deedi [0:08:22]: We've got case studies.
Deedi [0:08:23]: We are really doubling down on, like, Ge o or a I o, whatever.
Deedi [0:08:28]: Tl three letter acronym.
Deedi [0:08:30]: You wanna...
Deedi [0:08:31]: You wanna use for that, but our target audiences on chat More than even, like, your standard person.
Deedi [0:08:36]: Right?
Deedi [0:08:36]: They are already asking Chat, how do I do this?
Deedi [0:08:39]: How do I do that.
Deedi [0:08:40]: And so especially because we focus on being considered in that option set alongside some of these newer competitors in the market.
Deedi [0:08:45]: We're doubling down there, but that's boring because everybody's doing that.
Deedi [0:08:48]: But I just have to put that there that we're also thinking about that a lot.
Deedi [0:08:51]: But What is interesting is so our content team miss five people, including myself.
Deedi [0:08:55]: I have a content manager who's really doing a lot of editing and project managing better it tutorial content, newsletter writing, We have a monthly newsletter that has two additions, one for developers and professional developers or power users and one for what we go and call founders or builders who are, like, less expert.
Deedi [0:09:10]: And so they're very similar, but sometimes the content.
Deedi [0:09:12]: It's a clip show, newsletter, essentially right.
Deedi [0:09:15]: And so that just helps...
Deedi [0:09:16]: It's a content distribution mechanism and, like, keeping us top of mind and giving them some, like, fun inside sneak peaks.
Deedi [0:09:23]: And then I also have our video production manager on my team.
Deedi [0:09:27]: And he is primarily focused on Youtube.
Deedi [0:09:30]: And really, as we...
Deedi [0:09:32]: We're gonna talk more about Youtube later, I'm sure, but we are really shifting into a lot more storytelling, a lot more showing off our own customers and interviews and thought leadership on Youtube.
Deedi [0:09:40]: I have also our enable make content manager, and so he helps us with creating demo apps and showing off product improvements on social as we build in public and also our Bubble academy and educational content.
Deedi [0:09:55]: And then what is most recent and most exciting, I think from, like, a how content teams are working these days perspective is I also have our social media person on my team.
Deedi [0:10:05]: And I love social media.
Deedi [0:10:07]: You see you all these books behind me.
Deedi [0:10:08]: I'm actually lo a book.
Deedi [0:10:09]: Influencer on Instagram Like, I love social media.
Deedi [0:10:12]: And so when I had the opportunity to bring social under the content umbrella, I was so excited because especially in this era of Ai search where social platforms are becoming so much more But also in this world where, like, native content on social is the only way to be successful.
Deedi [0:10:29]: You can no longer fight against the tide where the users don't wanna go off platform.
Deedi [0:10:33]: The platforms don't wanna send people off platform.
Deedi [0:10:35]: Like you can't just, like, send blog posts on Linkedin anymore and expect that to work And so having video and social on my team is really exciting because we can start to treat social as a content function and not just a distribution channel, which is a lot of fun.
Deedi [0:10:51]: Yes.
Deedi [0:10:51]: And I think that those are like, the main areas that think you could hear my voice that social really excites me, but what we're gonna be doing on Youtube is also really, really exciting.
Erik [0:11:00]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:00]: And all these things are, like, to your point, all of these things are integrated together.
Erik [0:11:05]: So having it all under one roof in one team, I think is very important.
Erik [0:11:11]: I have seen quite a few occasions where the teams are sort of siloed, and there's more of, like, a handoff and then, like, reviews and approvals, but there's no connective tissue between them on, like, what is the actual goal we're trying to achieve here and how all of these things are connected.
Erik [0:11:27]: So I think that's amazing that you all are, like, all under one roof like that?
Erik [0:11:32]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:32]: Maybe let's start with social.
Erik [0:11:34]: Like, maybe if you wanna run through, like, what you're finding or seeing with social right now, you could take it from a specific platform standpoint, Maybe one you're going, like, are you focused on one or two primary channels is like, this is the one we're gonna focus on, like, unlocking the most right now, then we'll go to that...
Erik [0:11:53]: We'll get that playbook down, keep putting resources towards that, and then we add the next...
Erik [0:11:58]: Or, like, just broad execution across the board?
Erik [0:12:02]: Or, yeah, How do you think about your social execution.
Deedi [0:12:05]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:12:05]: So our bread and butter channels are Twitter and Linkedin.
Deedi [0:12:09]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:12:10]: I think we have those running pretty well right now, but they're still interesting because they're always changing.
Deedi [0:12:15]: Especially, Linkedin.
Deedi [0:12:16]: I feel like it's really moving towards like short form video and just, like, less like, boring corporate blah blah blah that, like, Linkedin has been an echo chamber for, like a million years and it honestly, it looks still kind of.
Deedi [0:12:27]: Right?
Deedi [0:12:27]: But, like, you gotta play the game.
Deedi [0:12:28]: Right.
Deedi [0:12:28]: But I do think that they're doing fun stuff over there.
Deedi [0:12:30]: And we have our most engaged power users are, like, really active on Twitter.
Deedi [0:12:35]: So we find that the building in public content, like, hey, we changed this little tiny button that kind of product information.
Deedi [0:12:43]: They love it on Twitter.
Deedi [0:12:44]: And so we do a lot of that there, but we also put pretty much everything on Twitter in some format because we have an engaged audience over there.
Deedi [0:12:52]: And also, you're seeing this movement of the industry happening on Twitter.
Deedi [0:12:57]: Right The CEO of some of these other competitors of ours are extremely active on Twitter in extremely unconventional ways, And there's...
Deedi [0:13:04]: Like I said, a lot of oxygen.
Deedi [0:13:05]: Right?
Deedi [0:13:05]: There's just a lot of momentum Npr.
Deedi [0:13:08]: And so, you know, we have over the last few months, like, really accelerated an increase like, our posting cadence just because we...
Deedi [0:13:15]: Like I said, we're really focused on.
Deedi [0:13:17]: That share of voice and that awareness.
Erik [0:13:19]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:13:20]: So we're still innovating, I think in those two platforms that are kind of our bread and butter.
Deedi [0:13:24]: And then we have been really also trying to come back.
Deedi [0:13:29]: I and say, like, start on Instagram because we have been on Instagram, but We especially have a pretty good audience from Brazil.
Deedi [0:13:36]: On Instagram, actually, Brazil is our second largest country by user count after the United States.
Deedi [0:13:42]: And so for a long time, we had as so many contact teams do limitations on getting visual visuals for Instagram Instagram requires visuals.
Deedi [0:13:50]: Right.
Deedi [0:13:50]: So now we would have unblock some of those.
Deedi [0:13:52]: So we really started to, like lean into Instagram a little bit more works excited to play with broadcast channels and things like that.
Deedi [0:13:57]: And then we have Tiktok honestly, like, just a fun office humor, Tiktok at this point, but that, I think speaking of going step by steps.
Deedi [0:14:05]: Right Like, right now, we're kinda like focusing on adding Instagram into the mix alongside Twitter and Linkedin.
Deedi [0:14:10]: And then, of course, we also have to see what happens with Tiktok from a company perspective.
Deedi [0:14:15]: So man can see there who knows.
Deedi [0:14:18]: Let's gonna imagine.
Erik [0:14:19]: Yes.
Erik [0:14:19]: I understand.
Erik [0:14:20]: Yeah.
Erik [0:14:20]: I'm a big fan of that, which is kind of the stair step, but per, like, obviously coverage across channels so that you are visible everywhere, but, like, it is really hard to deeply execute.
Erik [0:14:31]: At the level that's often required on a platform by platform basis, all of them at the same time.
Erik [0:14:38]: There are only so many resources and team members that you can throw at, you know, things at any given time.
Erik [0:14:44]: So I'm a big fan of that.
Erik [0:14:46]: How are you thinking about in the context of social personal accounts versus the company accounts.
Erik [0:14:53]: Is there anything you all are doing to help enable internal...
Erik [0:14:57]: Team members or Smes and things like that to be posting and building up audiences on behalf of what you all are building on their own accounts versus like the company accounts or any learnings there.
Deedi [0:15:11]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:15:11]: That's something I think is on our radar for next year once we sort of, like, we just had...
Deedi [0:15:17]: As you mentioned a couple of big events.
Deedi [0:15:18]: So we're Yeah.
Deedi [0:15:19]: Coming out of product launch mode, but we're definitely right now really focused on our CEO.
Deedi [0:15:24]: And we have always supported them.
Deedi [0:15:26]: But really just like, standing up a much more robust executive comm strategy and supporting them even more in an organic way.
Deedi [0:15:34]: Right?
Deedi [0:15:34]: Like I don't even have emmanuel Twitter login.
Deedi [0:15:37]: He's posting himself.
Deedi [0:15:38]: Right?
Deedi [0:15:38]: But I think, like, as we think about our broader team, there are certainly a couple of people on the team who are already engaged.
Deedi [0:15:45]: Those are our internal Bubble developers.
Deedi [0:15:47]: Like, Bubbles website is a Bubble app.
Deedi [0:15:49]: We call it This is a fun fact.
Deedi [0:15:51]: Here's some lower for you, but the team that works on Bubble.io is called Meta because they're, like, Bubble.
Deedi [0:15:56]: Working on Bubbles.
Erik [0:15:58]: Yes.
Deedi [0:15:59]: So you, like, we'll talk with our contractors and say Meta.
Deedi [0:16:01]: And they're like, you're talking about Facebook and we're like, no.
Deedi [0:16:03]: Sorry.
Deedi [0:16:04]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:16:04]: And, some of our Bubble developers who work on the Meta team are, like, well known on Twitter already because they...
Deedi [0:16:09]: Like, are dog leading the product all the time, and that's a lot of fun, but definitely something that we wanna think about.
Deedi [0:16:14]: I think in the short term, we're more focused on those Bubble ambassadors.
Deedi [0:16:18]: We call them the bands.
Deedi [0:16:18]: Right.
Deedi [0:16:19]: Because they already have those audiences.
Deedi [0:16:20]: And I also think that you just aren't gonna trust a brand as much anymore.
Deedi [0:16:25]: Right?
Deedi [0:16:25]: Like, I think we're just in an era where it's the era of the creator.
Deedi [0:16:29]: And, I mean, like I said, I am one myself in a totally different vertical than the one I work in professionally, but I don't wanna force it on in place who don't already have the audience who aren't honored to talking about those things you don't have any interest in that.
Deedi [0:16:40]: When we have this, like, insanely engaged community already waiting, and they would love our help growing their platforms and them come.
Deedi [0:16:47]: No.
Erik [0:16:48]: Yeah.
Erik [0:16:48]: That is a competitive advantage for sure.
Erik [0:16:50]: You know, there's a lot of companies looking to scale, like, creator programs right now, but they don't have a user base or sort of customer ambassadors in the quantity or not quality from the standpoint of, like, who they are or anything, but more so just like, they already have audiences as well.
Erik [0:17:09]: Like, that is such a good advantage to be able to lean into.
Erik [0:17:12]: And one of the big reasons is just because, like, if even just look at it from this simple standpoint of, like, number of at at bats.
Erik [0:17:19]: Like, so every day, if we can have two hundred times the volume of post going out across dozens and dozens and dozens of accounts with something related to what we're doing a Bubble or Bubble in general because of how all these algorithms work now like, we now have two hundred times more at bats for these to go viral or just whatever to pick up huge amount of awareness and impressions.
Erik [0:17:44]: Because, fortunately, and unfortunately, like, the following numbers where those that follow you is not as, like, valuable.
Erik [0:17:53]: In my opinion, it's still a good north start indicator of, like, are we being successful here and obviously, it's a big asset, but the platforms aren't sending all your stuff to all your followers.
Erik [0:18:02]: The flip side though is that any account really no matter how big how small can have content that goes extremely far.
Erik [0:18:11]: So even just simply from an app perspective across...
Erik [0:18:16]: I mean, whether it's multiple brand accounts, which is also an interesting angle is maybe there's a content format that Bubble wants to do, but it could live on its own handles, basically, or these ambassador accounts or sort of like, create accounts.
Erik [0:18:32]: As well.
Deedi [0:18:33]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:18:33]: I mean, so I am a subscriber to a subs Called lincoln gi bio, written by Rachel Kart, and she has a discord community, and the members of the discord community who are paying subs subscribers.
Deedi [0:18:45]: Were invited to a webinar with the Instagram team.
Deedi [0:18:49]: And this was a room full of brand account managers and yet seventy five percent of the insights that the Instagram team presented us were creator insights.
Deedi [0:19:00]: Mh.
Deedi [0:19:00]: You're like here it works for creators.
Deedi [0:19:02]: This is what we have data on and I'm like, that says a lot about who you're prioritizing.
Erik [0:19:07]: Yes.
Deedi [0:19:07]: And who you're platforming and who you're supporting with a your resources to be successful, and so that's just underscores sort of everything that you just mentioned.
Erik [0:19:15]: Yeah.
Erik [0:19:15]: It can be a bit overwhelming to be honest, but it's also...
Erik [0:19:19]: There's so many opportunities now.
Erik [0:19:22]: There's so many different social channels.
Erik [0:19:24]: There's so many different approaches you could take to multiple accounts or ambassador accounts or different company accounts.
Erik [0:19:32]: So there's just so much opportunity.
Erik [0:19:34]: I feel like, now more than ever to be, like, in content, you know, or social or something like that.
Erik [0:19:40]: As long as we don't feel like...
Erik [0:19:41]: Because it also can be extremely overwhelming.
Erik [0:19:43]: We at the same time, So let's talk about Youtube a little bit.
Erik [0:19:47]: From me outside looking in, you've got a really great engine working right now on Youtube.
Erik [0:19:51]: Your channel looks really fantastic to me.
Erik [0:19:54]: But so could you give me an idea of what you all are sort of prioritizing or executing with Youtube now and you also mentioned you've got some plans in the works as well.
Deedi [0:20:04]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:20:04]: So last year, in twenty twenty four, we had a a very specific initiative of growing our Youtube channel, and we took it from about thirty thousand to fifty thousand followers, which we were really excited about.
Deedi [0:20:14]: Huge...
Deedi [0:20:15]: Credit to my video production manager on my team who led the charge there because it was really successful.
Deedi [0:20:20]: And a big piece of what drove our growth last year was the creation of long form courses with someone who was very well known as an educator in the community.
Deedi [0:20:32]: Mh.
Deedi [0:20:32]: He has his own business, his own channels, but we partnered with him to produce not only, like, a fully new getting started with Bubble course, but also some additional, like, courses and quick tips and whatnot.
Deedi [0:20:45]: And it worked.
Deedi [0:20:46]: It was great.
Deedi [0:20:47]: And part of it was that we were driving to Youtube more than we had done before combined with, like, sort of the well known influencer and also bringing people in via those courses.
Deedi [0:20:58]: I think that while, we are not gonna stop creating education educational content by any means.
Deedi [0:21:02]: We are actually about to fully refresh the Bubble academy.
Deedi [0:21:06]: And, like I mentioned, I do have the name team member who's, like, really working on the academy a lot.
Deedi [0:21:11]: I don't think that this, like, long form course style is a Youtube growth mechanism, like, not even one year later.
Deedi [0:21:18]: Mh.
Deedi [0:21:19]: Especially because our product has changed.
Deedi [0:21:21]: So we just launched Bubble Ai agent, which is conversational editing.
Deedi [0:21:25]: And...
Deedi [0:21:26]: But even earlier this year when we launched Ai generated apps, all of a sudden, we have a fundamental education conundrum, which is people aren't gonna learn how to build something from scratch anymore.
Deedi [0:21:38]: And if they aren't building it from scratch, how do you teach them how to use the platform.
Deedi [0:21:42]: Right?
Deedi [0:21:42]: How do you say here with you go.
Deedi [0:21:44]: We built this app for you.
Deedi [0:21:45]: Here are all the workflows.
Deedi [0:21:47]: Oh, by the way, here's what workflow is.
Erik [0:21:49]: Right.
Deedi [0:21:49]: Right?
Deedi [0:21:49]: Look, that's crazy actually.
Deedi [0:21:51]: And so I think that we are...
Deedi [0:21:53]: Really moving towards the place where the Bubble Ai agent can also help educate you as it makes you.
Deedi [0:22:00]: Edits for you and teaches you you can ask them how to do things that has contacts on your app?
Deedi [0:22:03]: And so then the question is how do we provide education that fits in this frankly attention span of people who wanna build apps by just like asking a chatbot to do it for them.
Deedi [0:22:13]: Right?
Deedi [0:22:14]: Like, they're even less likely to spend twenty hours in a fundamentals course.
Deedi [0:22:18]: And so how do you build the next generation of certified Bubble developers who understand platform inside and out when they're starting from this place.
Deedi [0:22:25]: So that's something that I don't have the answer to quite yet.
Deedi [0:22:27]: We're working toward through it as I mentioned.
Deedi [0:22:29]: But for that reason, our Youtube strategy for that reason, and then also paired with this fact that we are really hyper focused on awareness and share of voice, platform we are gonna be evolving our Youtube strategy to being so much more customer focused.
Deedi [0:22:43]: And by that, I mean, putting our customers on our Youtube channel.
Erik [0:22:48]: Yes.
Deedi [0:22:48]: Right?
Deedi [0:22:48]: We want to tell their stories, we want to celebrate their product launches.
Deedi [0:22:52]: We want to connect our community with the expertise of people who have built legitimate scaled businesses.
Deedi [0:23:00]: Like, we have one formula bot.
Deedi [0:23:02]: Has a million users.
Deedi [0:23:03]: It's one guy at that company.
Deedi [0:23:05]: Like that's so cool.
Deedi [0:23:06]: Right?
Deedi [0:23:07]: Like, I don't know if any of those other competitors.
Deedi [0:23:09]: Say the thing.
Deedi [0:23:10]: Apps like that I that.
Deedi [0:23:11]: Right?
Deedi [0:23:11]: Like so it's really exciting.
Deedi [0:23:13]: We are in the middle of sort of transitioning some of our processes to really support that.
Deedi [0:23:17]: How do we make sure we have a steady pipeline, Like, how are we partnering with the community team to make sure that, like, they're connecting us with the opportunities in these stories, and it's all very, very exciting, but I think we're gonna be doubling down on storytelling, doubling down on, like, a casual exactly what you and Doing right now, like a podcast style q and a tell me what you learned.
Erik [0:23:36]: Yes.
Deedi [0:23:36]: And so I'm really excited about it.
Deedi [0:23:38]: And I think that my video production manager who really loves storytelling.
Erik [0:23:42]: Yes.
Deedi [0:23:43]: Is especially excited that even more of his job.
Deedi [0:23:45]: Gets to be focused on this kind of thing.
Deedi [0:23:47]: Especially because, like, talking to users and hearing about them, like that's my favorite part.
Deedi [0:23:50]: Right?
Deedi [0:23:50]: We are so many cool and world changing Bubble apps out there.
Deedi [0:23:56]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:23:56]: We have one in our story of a company that does, like, the back end processing of connecting people like, organs that are ready to be donated and, like, transporting them very, very quickly to people who need to receive them.
Deedi [0:24:09]: And, like, they have saved people's lives like, and the hours and hours that they save with their Bubble app in the back end, means that these, like, viable organs like make it in time.
Deedi [0:24:18]: It's just like, that's kinda stuff to hear about as a pre content marketer.
Deedi [0:24:21]: I'm like this why I'm here.
Deedi [0:24:22]: Right?
Deedi [0:24:22]: Like what else do you need?
Erik [0:24:24]: Yes.
Erik [0:24:24]: I love this.
Erik [0:24:26]: I love this.
Erik [0:24:26]: I do think that this...
Erik [0:24:28]: Obviously, there's different approaches depending on your market and your expertise and your resources and stuff like this.
Erik [0:24:36]: But this idea, I think is a really, really, really strong one, and there are some examples.
Erik [0:24:41]: I have seen and we've helped with as well.
Erik [0:24:44]: But basically, kind of what you're describing is to me the most evolved version of a case study where it's almost like having your broccoli wrapped inside of candy or whatever.
Erik [0:24:59]: You know, Like, for all the parents out there because an example of this is if you've heard of owner.com.
Erik [0:25:05]: I don't know if you have it or not, but there a software platform, that helps restaurant owners basically have all of the the website, a, like, app for ordering.
Erik [0:25:17]: A lot of restaurant owners could maybe actually use Bubble to create these things too, but this is kinda like in a box like done for you.
Erik [0:25:23]: Yeah.
Erik [0:25:24]: And one thing they did was create almost like a bar rescue or hotel impossible type episode with one of their restaurant owners and the founder actually, like, flew to them.
Erik [0:25:38]: It was like an episode about what they were doing at the restaurant, and then ideas and things they could do, and then they actually did in the episode to make them more successful, but the platform was a through line.
Erik [0:25:49]: Inside of all of that.
Deedi [0:25:51]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:25:51]: If there's one thing that people are talking about in the social media space specifically.
Deedi [0:25:56]: It is episodic content.
Erik [0:25:58]: Right.
Erik [0:25:58]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:25:59]: Tiktok is a new TV.
Deedi [0:26:00]: Right?
Erik [0:26:01]: Yes.
Deedi [0:26:01]: Like, you're like, oh, my shows on.
Deedi [0:26:02]: Right?
Deedi [0:26:03]: When, like, you get some on your for you page.
Deedi [0:26:05]: And, like, even Instagram released a feature that lets you link real to one another here.
Deedi [0:26:09]: Like, this is literally a series so that people can go back and find it.
Deedi [0:26:13]: And that was in that session that I mentioned earlier that I attended with lincoln Bio.
Deedi [0:26:17]: One of their top recommendations was have a recurring character, have a recurring team.
Deedi [0:26:22]: Like, day five of testing new, like recipes until we get it right or whatever.
Deedi [0:26:27]: Right?
Deedi [0:26:28]: And so episodic content, that is also very top of mind for.
Deedi [0:26:31]: Like, are we gonna tap into that and do that in a way that feels really authentic and really centers the expertise and, like, the experiences of our founders and our community.
Erik [0:26:40]: Series based because it gives people a reason to wanna hit followed, like, comment, what have you so that they get the next installment of the series.
Erik [0:26:47]: Basically.
Erik [0:26:47]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:48]: And people are watching the stuff on their living room TVs.
Erik [0:26:50]: Like, I've just had a lot of conversations with a lot of marketers, and I just asked them.
Erik [0:26:54]: How are you consuming content and a huge percentage of them are like, yeah.
Erik [0:26:59]: I watch Youtube.
Erik [0:26:59]: I don't watch TV anymore.
Erik [0:27:01]: I'm watching my favorite Youtube shows, which are just whatever channels like it can be from a company a creator, or whatever.
Erik [0:27:08]: There are lessons that can be had outside of how the platform helped those people that the person watching can get, whether it's inspiration, ideas, tactics, but the platform is a through line through all of that.
Erik [0:27:20]: And so it's like, it widen the aperture for how many people can basically watch...
Erik [0:27:26]: Nobody wants to really watch an ad.
Erik [0:27:29]: But, like, don't watch a show that has cool stuff inside of it.
Erik [0:27:32]: So...
Deedi [0:27:33]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:27:33]: I have been pushing my team to think about that a lot more, especially because we do...
Deedi [0:27:39]: I mean, our sales team loves the traditional case studies.
Deedi [0:27:43]: So we do still create those and more great stories.
Deedi [0:27:46]: But the content that can be reproduced out of them, just lends itself to just, like, testimonials.
Deedi [0:27:50]: Right?
Deedi [0:27:51]: And we want people to know the Bubble is great.
Deedi [0:27:53]: So we're like, oh, this is such a great quote.
Deedi [0:27:55]: And I'm like, nobody's is gonna care.
Deedi [0:27:56]: Right?
Deedi [0:27:56]: Like, we were looking for a while.
Deedi [0:27:58]: We were sharing like, clip, of my, like, Google hangout with founders when I'm doing these intake interviews for these showcase stories, these case studies.
Deedi [0:28:06]: And they're not, like, the most produced right and, but they didn't perform very well.
Deedi [0:28:10]: And my social media person was like I think it's because, like, not well.
Deedi [0:28:13]: And I was, I think it's because so it's a testimonial.
Deedi [0:28:16]: And nobody cares about testimonials.
Deedi [0:28:17]: Actually, Right?
Deedi [0:28:18]: Like, especially on Instagram, like, maybe it fits on Linkedin.
Deedi [0:28:21]: And so this idea of how do you make sure that you are providing value in this content for the watcher that you are giving them what they need a not telling them what you want them to know.
Erik [0:28:32]: Exactly.
Deedi [0:28:32]: And that is so hard as a content marketer to do and to remember to do because this instincts go the other way.
Erik [0:28:40]: Yes.
Deedi [0:28:40]: But it's really important.
Erik [0:28:41]: Yes.
Erik [0:28:41]: Like the product in those cases, and I still think super bottom of funnel testimonials and case studies that are put front of people who are literally like, I'm trying to make a decision today.
Erik [0:28:51]: Those are...
Deedi [0:28:52]: Especially like at large companies enterprise.
Erik [0:28:54]: Absolutely.
Erik [0:28:54]: Like, those are incredibly valuable.
Erik [0:28:56]: But this is actually just taking that to a more evolved version to widen, like the potential audience that would actually care about it.
Erik [0:29:04]: And so your product can be the hero in the story, but your product is not the point of the story.
Deedi [0:29:11]: And I think our product is the side kick.
Deedi [0:29:12]: I think the exact founder is here.
Deedi [0:29:14]: Yeah.
Erik [0:29:14]: Yeah.
Erik [0:29:14]: There you go.
Erik [0:29:15]: I love that.
Erik [0:29:16]: Okay.
Erik [0:29:16]: Cool.
Erik [0:29:16]: Anything else with that that you're thinking about or any other...
Erik [0:29:21]: Like, whether it be the newsletter or any other sort of channel that you found really exciting or interesting lately that you wanna to kinda go into.
Deedi [0:29:30]: I think those are the the main ones our top of mind.
Deedi [0:29:32]: Our our team is really excited to...
Deedi [0:29:34]: I mean, it's not just content that's gonna be shifting and telling more customer stories.
Deedi [0:29:37]: Like this has become it we are doubling down on it as a marketing strategy.
Deedi [0:29:41]: And that, I think the entire marketing team is really excited about.
Erik [0:29:44]: Yeah.
Erik [0:29:44]: That's awesome.
Erik [0:29:44]: So how do you look at the success Kpis metrics, what have you, and it doesn't have to be this could be more philosophical because, like, content that is effective is often very hard to measure from a purely attribution standpoint.
Erik [0:30:02]: But I'm just curious philosophically or big picture, how you all look at, like, is this content achieving what we wanted to achieve?
Deedi [0:30:10]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:30:10]: It's a good question.
Deedi [0:30:11]: And we are in the middle of figuring that out all over again as our category has shifted as our marketing strategy is shifting, as the world is shifting because we spent a lot of time this year shipping really cool features.
Deedi [0:30:25]: And so we were really heads down on just getting the word out.
Deedi [0:30:28]: And so we've kind of, like, now we're like, okay.
Deedi [0:30:30]: Let's go back and, like, re attach the metrics to these things that we just haven't been, like, not that we're not watching them, but, like, they haven't been guiding us as much as, like, oh we need to tell people that we launch something very cool.
Erik [0:30:40]: Right.
Deedi [0:30:41]: So we rely primarily on self reported attribution.
Deedi [0:30:45]: So we do a lot of Atms, a lot of segment events, but then also, we have a mandatory onboarding survey, which like one question hard to hear about us, and we use that for a lot of...
Deedi [0:30:54]: Obviously, it's not perfect.
Deedi [0:30:55]: And we're evolving it all the time, like, we used to have Youtube there.
Deedi [0:30:58]: Now It says chat Instead.
Deedi [0:30:59]: Right?
Deedi [0:30:59]: And so...
Deedi [0:31:00]: For that reason, we are able to track things like Mr or new paying users that came from organic channels.
Deedi [0:31:07]: I think we're most heavily focused in that regard on search.
Deedi [0:31:11]: That includes both traditional search and also these days, Ai search and LL search.
Deedi [0:31:15]: And so we are also in the middle right now of establishing baseline Kpis around things like citation rate for LL search that we're gonna be benchmarking off of.
Deedi [0:31:25]: But that's, I think a leading indicator like, traffic and, like, page views from organic search and whatnot are leading indicators for some of like, downstream, like, revenue drivers.
Deedi [0:31:34]: And so it's very refreshing to work for a VP of marketing who understands that we can focus on those leading indicators because they're much easier to influence.
Deedi [0:31:41]: When you're putting out content versus always anchoring on, especially, like, for us, you don't pay for the product until you're ready to launch.
Deedi [0:31:48]: So Right.
Deedi [0:31:49]: New paying users.
Deedi [0:31:50]: I can't affect October today.
Deedi [0:31:53]: I might not even be getting effect November today.
Deedi [0:31:55]: Right?
Deedi [0:31:56]: Like...
Deedi [0:31:56]: But I can affect traffic and, sign ups and things like that.
Deedi [0:31:59]: So those are, like, probably our North stars there.
Deedi [0:32:01]: And then for social, we are this quarter paying really close attention to a combination of impressions and engagements.
Deedi [0:32:09]: And we tried to choose between the two of them, and we couldn't...
Deedi [0:32:13]: Because if you over index on impressions, then you are just gonna put out, click baby stuff.
Erik [0:32:21]: Memes.
Deedi [0:32:21]: Right.
Deedi [0:32:21]: Exactly Memes.
Deedi [0:32:22]: And if you are over focusing on engagement, then you are gonna post things that your current audience is gonna love, and not gonna actually grow your audience at all because it's for existing users.
Deedi [0:32:32]: Right?
Deedi [0:32:33]: So I was like, we actually need to pay attention to both of them so that we don't accidentally create these, like, per reverse incentives against ourselves, especially when the, like, North star company metric right now is growth.
Deedi [0:32:45]: Right.
Erik [0:32:46]: So super smart.
Deedi [0:32:47]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:32:47]: Exactly.
Deedi [0:32:47]: So it's an adventure.
Deedi [0:32:48]: I'm really excited to head into twenty twenty six with some of these, like, a lines, a lot more established and you have a little bit more of a sense of exactly what we wanna report out on a weekly basis, etcetera, etcetera.
Erik [0:33:00]: Yeah.
Erik [0:33:00]: I love that.
Erik [0:33:01]: And it's a hard problem, but I think it's a great point of view basically to have, like, we need to be on these channels.
Erik [0:33:08]: Our users, our prospects, our customers are there.
Erik [0:33:11]: So to me, sometimes there can be this thought.
Erik [0:33:14]: Of will this channel work for us.
Erik [0:33:16]: And then you look at it, you sort of assess it.
Erik [0:33:20]: You've test it, like, a full strategy on it for a very short window of time.
Erik [0:33:24]: And then you look at Ut based sign ups.
Erik [0:33:27]: And you're like, this channel actually did not perform very well.
Erik [0:33:31]: But all of these channels work.
Erik [0:33:33]: Every single one of them, if there's one single competitor or adjacent in your category that's using it and they are successful on the platform, then you can be too.
Erik [0:33:43]: So to me, it's not about, like, will it work I think the point of all this is, like, we need to be where our customers are and customers are on a lot of platforms these days.
Erik [0:33:51]: So we need to be smart about maybe which ones we choose and prioritize and focus on, so we don't bite off one we can chew.
Erik [0:33:57]: But then it's about kinda what you mentioned in my opinion of, like, in platform.
Erik [0:34:00]: In platform based success.
Erik [0:34:03]: Are we actually being successful in the channel, not...
Erik [0:34:07]: Can we see how many people clicked from the link over to our website?
Erik [0:34:11]: Because that gets a little fuzz.
Erik [0:34:13]: Like, not everybody does that.
Erik [0:34:14]: Maybe they've been following your Youtube?
Erik [0:34:16]: But they also follow your Twitter.
Deedi [0:34:18]: You shouldn't even be sharing just like a link.
Deedi [0:34:19]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:34:20]: Exactly.
Deedi [0:34:21]: Well...
Deedi [0:34:22]: Exactly.
Erik [0:34:23]: And then, like, they're on your newsletter.
Erik [0:34:24]: So it's, like, which one of these?
Erik [0:34:26]: Actually, like, if you're looking for, like, which one was the thing, It's almost the wrong question because, like...
Deedi [0:34:32]: Right.
Erik [0:34:33]: It's really all of them together.
Erik [0:34:34]: It's a content ecosystem.
Erik [0:34:35]: And if you're doing the channels the best to your point.
Erik [0:34:39]: You're not pushing people for a conversion.
Erik [0:34:42]: If you do a good job, educating them, them trusting you, them liking you.
Erik [0:34:48]: When they're ready to do something.
Erik [0:34:50]: They're gonna just go to Google to your point.
Erik [0:34:52]: And so that's where it's like branded search is one leading indicator in in terms of social or content.
Erik [0:34:57]: It actually would be a lagging indicator of already being effective on those channels and then that leads to a branded search.
Deedi [0:35:06]: So I actually, like, we're seeing branded search.
Deedi [0:35:08]: I mean, we've always had really strong branded search because we've been around so long.
Deedi [0:35:11]: Yes.
Deedi [0:35:11]: We've such a big community.
Deedi [0:35:12]: So it's been, like, oh, how do we fix that?
Deedi [0:35:14]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:15]: Like, how do we, like, increase non branded search.
Deedi [0:35:17]: And these days, I'm like, I think that an increase in branded search actually means they found us on Chad Gp.
Erik [0:35:22]: Oh, yes.
Erik [0:35:23]: Yes.
Erik [0:35:23]: Yes.
Erik [0:35:24]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:35:24]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:24]: Like, that's actually not a bad thing.
Deedi [0:35:26]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:26]: If you're like Ge metrics are going up and then you're seeing a lot of branded search.
Deedi [0:35:29]: That's what's happening there.
Deedi [0:35:30]: Probably.
Deedi [0:35:31]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:31]: But you wanna know what?
Deedi [0:35:33]: This is, like, uncomfortable.
Deedi [0:35:34]: Right?
Deedi [0:35:34]: Like, I had to, like, really sell it Like, I was, like, we were going through, like, what are the metrics that we care about, and we're talking about social, like, right after we move social onto to the content team and they were like, oh, traffic from social.
Deedi [0:35:46]: And I was like, stop.
Deedi [0:35:46]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:35:47]: Stop stop asking you to care about traffic from social because it's not gonna do what you want.
Deedi [0:35:51]: And you wanna know what?
Deedi [0:35:52]: It's a lot harder for us to measure, and I understand that because now if I assess the success of a campaign, I have to pull together blog views and this post views and this post views and this post views and maybe add them together, and that doesn't sound fun for me, but that's what we have to do.
Deedi [0:36:07]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:36:08]: If you want to actually do the thing the right way.
Erik [0:36:13]: Yes.
Erik [0:36:13]: Exactly.
Erik [0:36:14]: And so it's interesting too because, like, logically, I think if you're talking to anybody that all makes sense.
Erik [0:36:20]: It's like, what's your behavior on Twitter?
Erik [0:36:22]: Are you going to the people's thing and clicking their Url and then converting right there from the, like, you're not?
Deedi [0:36:28]: How many times you go to somebody's Linkedin bio.
Erik [0:36:30]: Exactly.
Erik [0:36:30]: But if you like are in a need for, like, something, you just go to your role of x in your mind Of, like, who have I've been paying attention to who do I like in that space?
Erik [0:36:39]: And that's the purpose honestly of this whole show is like, how do you get to be six months from now, one of the top three vendors that somebody is immediately putting on their shortlist list.
Erik [0:36:52]: Because they already know about you from the content you've been creating for them.
Erik [0:36:57]: And to me, that's like the holy grail of all of this.
Erik [0:37:00]: It it's frustrating enough, it is extremely hard to measure all of that and connect that.
Erik [0:37:06]: And I understand, like, the challenge with that connecting that with, like, exact teams and leadership teams on, like, well, how do we actually know if this is working or not?
Erik [0:37:15]: It's a difficult problem.
Erik [0:37:16]: The teams that I think fundamentally understand it of a huge competitive advantage.
Erik [0:37:22]: Against the ones the content teams that have, like, one hand tied behind their back because they're being kinda measured against extreme quantitative click based things.
Deedi [0:37:32]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:37:32]: I mean, there's also a resource privilege there too.
Deedi [0:37:36]: Right?
Deedi [0:37:37]: Like, if you're a one man team?
Erik [0:37:38]: Yes.
Deedi [0:37:39]: It is so much harder for you to make a case for you spending time on things that you cannot track.
Erik [0:37:43]: Yes.
Deedi [0:37:44]: And so I don't take that for granted either.
Erik [0:37:47]: Yes.
Erik [0:37:47]: How do you think about paid within all of this.
Erik [0:37:53]: So there is a few concepts of paid in relation to organic as well.
Erik [0:37:59]: So in a lot of cases now, like, organic can be the leading piece of content to find out what people are like, responding to and what outperform amongst like, a standard post or video or what have you.
Erik [0:38:16]: And then that itself can be repurposed into an actual ad that you run or a whole number of different things.
Erik [0:38:24]: Have you all experimented with, like, any organic plus paid things together?
Erik [0:38:29]: What's your opinion on that stuff?
Deedi [0:38:31]: I would love to do more of that with my growth team in the future.
Deedi [0:38:35]: I feel like sometimes like the stars have to align on the content that each team is focusing on for that to work and that's just hasn't necessarily been the case in, like, recent months.
Deedi [0:38:44]: But I think that...
Deedi [0:38:45]: I mean, we have certainly tested, putting some dollars behind or, like, editorial content and then running retargeting and boosting, like, organic social posts, especially when we have something that we wanna drive like a hack or something, like, very fun like that.
Deedi [0:39:00]: But I think that right now, the biggest gray area between my growth team in terms of paid marketing and my team is influencers.
Deedi [0:39:11]: Mh.
Deedi [0:39:12]: Because we have a paid influencer program that they are running.
Deedi [0:39:16]: And that is about going out and finding people who are not part of talking about Bubble already.
Deedi [0:39:21]: Yes.
Deedi [0:39:21]: Who are maybe totally unrelated.
Deedi [0:39:23]: Right?
Deedi [0:39:24]: Like, or tangent generally related to our industry and finding the right fit or, like, very fun things like going and finding people who have been unsuccessful on other platforms and being, like, come rebuild on Bubble and building in public.
Deedi [0:39:38]: You know what I mean?
Deedi [0:39:39]: Like, Yeah.
Deedi [0:39:39]: Well, who's your post whatever, which is like a...
Deedi [0:39:41]: I think, really fun because watching people build in public on Bubble is just Great fun.
Deedi [0:39:46]: Yes.
Deedi [0:39:47]: So they have that.
Deedi [0:39:48]: And then for us, you know, we're working really closely with, like I mentioned with the community team with the Bubble ambassadors and how do we enable people who are already talking about it.
Deedi [0:39:56]: So we...
Deedi [0:39:56]: Like, not that we're not gonna pay them ever But, like, there's a much more organic partnership with these people because the more inside info we give them the better for them.
Deedi [0:40:05]: Right?
Deedi [0:40:05]: And they're following and whatnot.
Deedi [0:40:06]: So we are able to work with them in a way, Like, that's what they signed up for.
Deedi [0:40:11]: Like, they want to have a relationship with our team.
Deedi [0:40:14]: And so we're a lot more focused on these, but those things obviously.
Deedi [0:40:17]: Mh.
Deedi [0:40:17]: Like sometimes do overlap.
Deedi [0:40:19]: We just had to use our conferences in Europe.
Deedi [0:40:21]: And so we did have a couple of our ambassadors who reached out and said, can we put together a contract for...
Deedi [0:40:26]: Sponsored posts and we were like, yeah, Let's do it.
Deedi [0:40:28]: Right?
Deedi [0:40:29]: So Yes.
Deedi [0:40:29]: I think there...
Deedi [0:40:30]: There's, like, only up to go from there in the ways that, like I partnered with growth on that program.
Erik [0:40:34]: Totally.
Erik [0:40:34]: Yeah.
Erik [0:40:35]: And I think there's gonna be a lot more opportunity for organic plus paid.
Erik [0:40:40]: In the form of just brand organic plus paid, but also the, like, the influencer side of things because I think we're gonna find more, like, a huge increase in Sm creators and whether or not they turn, like, into really huge have huge following sort of business type creators or they're super niche, but I think there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for companies to, like, partner with them whether to, like, white list their content as ads or some sort of integrated campaign or they're just posting on behalf of the company, whatever the case may be.
Deedi [0:41:22]: Right.
Erik [0:41:23]: So I think sometimes, it can be playing on hard mode just doing, like, pure organic.
Erik [0:41:30]: And I think there is an interesting relationship between complain including on Youtube, you can run Youtube ads to your organic Youtube videos to be able to have your video that you've already proven successful and maybe it's thirty days past your, like, publish date for that, and you're like, oh, this one.
Erik [0:41:52]: The community's really resonating with, you can get more legs.
Erik [0:41:57]: You can get more people to watch that video and instead of putting in a Youtube ad to go sign up for Bubble.
Erik [0:42:03]: You put a Youtube ad for that video to appear as a suggested video on the right hand side or on the for you page, and you can mark people who watch these other channels.
Erik [0:42:14]: I want them to be the ones who get served this video or here's our newsletter with our opt ins, our email opt ins and we'd like to make sure as many of these people as possible.
Erik [0:42:25]: So there is targeting capabilities inside of Youtube to get the most reach out of your already successful organic Youtube content, stuff like that.
Erik [0:42:33]: So, yeah, I'm pretty bullish on that.
Erik [0:42:35]: Any other, like, things you're excited about or think is, like, an interesting observation you've had related to just content execution lately as we kinda round things out here.
Deedi [0:42:47]: I think that covers it.
Erik [0:42:49]: Awesome.
Erik [0:42:49]: Well, this has been amazing.
Erik [0:42:51]: I really appreciate you kinda walking us through that.
Erik [0:42:54]: I would recommend for everybody Number one, to go check out all the content channels we just described, so that you can see it in action.
Erik [0:43:03]: So go to Bubbles.
Erik [0:43:04]: Youtube, social channels, sign up for the newsletter, and then, obviously, if you are looking to, like, build something, sign up for Bubble.
Erik [0:43:14]: Like, I'll give a direct CTA there.
Erik [0:43:17]: Go sign up for Bubble.
Erik [0:43:19]: And then Did, anywhere else you would recommend people to go to like, connect with you or just check out something specific,
Deedi [0:43:26]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:43:26]: So I'm on Linkedin, but I'm gonna tell you if you send me a connection and you don't put a message in there.
Deedi [0:43:30]: I'm gonna ignore you.
Deedi [0:43:32]: So if you really want me to accept your connection, let me know that you came from the podcast, basically and that you're also content marketer or whatnot.
Deedi [0:43:39]: But I'm most active on Instagram at Did Reads, which is a little bit of a self plug, but that's truly where I hang out the time, and I I run a sub stack as well related to books.
Deedi [0:43:48]: So that's my...
Deedi [0:43:49]: Like, to say I do that by night and very early morning and everywhere in between.
Deedi [0:43:53]: But, yeah, Find man Linkedin.
Deedi [0:43:54]: If you're interested in connecting professionally and let's chat books If you're also interested in talking about books.
Erik [0:44:01]: Love it.
Erik [0:44:01]: Awesome.
Erik [0:44:01]: Well, thank you, Deedi.
Erik [0:44:02]: This has been great.
Deedi [0:44:04]: Yeah.
Deedi [0:44:04]: This has been great.
