The Evolution of Joshi Pro Wrestling: From the Peak to the Modern Era (Part 3)

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Write that, write that down for me, Saito. Write that down for me, Saito.
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Music.
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Hi everyone, welcome back to Write That Down. I'm one of your hosts, Justin Nipper.
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I edit for fightgamemedia.com and I'm a staff writer at F4WOnlineWrestlingObserver.com.
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I am back with Japan's leading pro wrestling author, historian,
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sociologist, and broadcast journalist, Mr.
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Fumi Saito Alright, welcome to the final episode of our mini-series on the history
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of Joshi Pro Wrestling Women's Wrestling in Japan Part 3, this is Part 3.
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Today on this episode we spend a lot of time We spend
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time up front especially talking about Akira Hokuto and Shinobi Kondori's
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legendary historic match 1993 dream
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slam um we spoke
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about that plus the extended
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rivalry between all japan women and llpw we
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also talked about groups like llpw jwp
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uh the women's group at fmw in
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the early 90s uh later on the episode we
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definitely spoke about we spent
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some time talking about chigisunageo's come back to pro
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wrestling as well as linus oska's come back in 1994
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and 1995 the launch of gaia
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japan we spoke about gaia girls the
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documentary which you i mentioned it on
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the episode but you can easily find it on
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youtube or daily motion or some sort of open source video website uh if you
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are interested in that documentary uh what else do we talk about on this final
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episode and we spent time talking about the the fallout of all japan women in um when it eventually.
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Finished but also uh morphed into a number of splinter groups that came out
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of it groups like arcyon neo new ladies oz academy later stardom.
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Wave sendai girls these days said seedling um
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we talked about the dark ages for joji pro wrestling as
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well and from there we led our
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discussion into the modern era of joji pro wrestling and there are a
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lot of topics that i'm sure we couldn't hit so this is a general history uh
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despite you know three episodes we gave you there's we're gonna have to hit
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on certain topics and certain figures in the future in, you know,
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solo series, showcase series that we do.
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We focused on one wrestler, one tag team.
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So if there is something that we had to leave out that you are interested in,
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just hit us up on Twitter, hit us up via Patreon.
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We'll try to get to it. There's lots and lots to get to, so don't you worry.
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All right, if you haven't already, please subscribe to the
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fight game media network podcast feed on spotify on
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apple stitch or downcast wherever you listen
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to your podcast it does help out a ton and also
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i have a book out right now a digital ebook thing
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about bob it's on the amazon you can buy
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it for your kindle it's called stronger than all it's a digital match guide
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to every single new japan strong match for the first two years of the show's
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existence um there is a sale going on this month too if you can buy it for just
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2.99 us dollars all right that's enough let's get right into joshu pro wrestling,
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the history of joshu pro wrestling our final episode part three.
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Music.
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And yeah, the very first in a promotional match starting from All Japan Women
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against FMW Women in November of 92.
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But the first very, very famous one being April 2nd, 1993, Yokohama Arena,
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where the match lasted all the way to like 1245 at night.
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Everybody missed their last train. And most of them missed the train and became a legend. Yeah. Yeah.
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Can you imagine? Actually, you know, the wrestling match lasted that long, but people decided.
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And Yokohama Arena is in Shin Yokohama. So you basically have to take bullet
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train one stop to get there, you know.
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And the bullet train runs, you know, even regular train and the subway usually
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runs to like 1 o'clock in the morning.
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But the bullet train stops running like 10.30, you know.
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And uh yeah they decided to stay and then
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you know they didn't think about what's going to happen after the show and then
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it's becoming like almost like a local legend that
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people run into each other middle of the night
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wandering around you know just to find a local bar or izakaya or someplace where
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they can i can you can actually walk in and spend time until the very first
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you know train in the morning a lot of life some people friendship started that
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night i guess yeah Yeah, that night.
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And some people went into 7-Eleven or Lawson's for English-speaking world.
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The Japanese 7-Elevens and Lawson's love them. They sell beer,
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liquor. Did you notice that? That's right. When you were here?
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Yeah. So they picked up six cans of beer and went to the park to sit.
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And I don't know how warm that was in April of 1993. It was pretty cold.
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Yeah. Yeah, and they decided to spend the night at the park drinking canned
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beer and talk wrestling even more.
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It was a great time. They became like a legend that night after the Yokohama Arena show.
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We, you know, yeah, yeah, spend the night outside until the first train in the morning.
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And they were happy to do so. But that was the very beginning of the peak era
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of this inter-promotion, superstar against superstar, supercar.
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Kohama Arena especially, that was the night Akira Hokuto became larger than
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life superstar beating Shinobu Kandori of LLPW.
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Shinobu Kandori was a star, but not like an idol superstar.
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But the star in that, she was a world champion judo, judoka, amateur rank.
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And how far can you go as a judo champion, right?
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And becoming instructor or sensei somewhere or teach high school in the gym class or,
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just be a judo person the rest of your life and you probably won't be making
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that much money you know and kandori wanted to pursue something professionally
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in a profession as an athlete and.
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Shandori was one of those people that wandered into the wrestling world much
00:08:04.147 --> 00:08:06.147
like now we are Ogawa later on. Yeah.
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Or the little bit like a Brock Lesnar for that matter. Yeah.
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Yeah. But Ronda Rousey was wrestling fan. She, yeah, she, she admits that,
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you know what I'm saying?
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Ronda Rousey was a great Olympic judo and also went to UFC, you know,
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like a real fight, but it wasn't like step down for Ronda Rousey to become professional
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wrestler because she was lifelong wrestling fan.
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And also that she admits that she was a Rowley Piper fan and also that she studied
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under judo Jean LaBelle.
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Jean LaBelle also trained Rowley Piper, so there was a connection.
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That's why she has this Rowley T-shirt and kilt skirt and a black leather jacket she inherited.
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And there's a nice, warm wrestling story to it, right?
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I mean, for Ronda Rousey's case, but Shinobu Kandri admits that herself.
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She never watched wrestling as a kid, you know, but this is what she wants to do to make money.
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You know, so there's like a mixed bag feeling that they're right.
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This legitimate tough woman should go into this business, you know, and improve something.
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Or some people resent that. Yeah, she's in there just to make money, you know, something.
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But the common understanding was that this woman, Shinobu Kandori is legitimate tough woman.
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Then in a single match against Akira Hokuto oh my gosh this is going to be very
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interesting right and in today's world it's a double juice you know both women
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played you know and at the end that the Northern Light power bomb that the Northern
00:09:47.472 --> 00:09:51.572
Light you know like a brain buster thing that Akira Hokuto pinned.
00:09:52.992 --> 00:09:58.932
Shinobu Kandori very convincingly and it was a sensational match and that was
00:09:58.932 --> 00:10:06.432
like that really sped this boom period, the peak era that let's come back and
00:10:06.432 --> 00:10:07.672
watch more women's wrestling.
00:10:07.872 --> 00:10:13.772
Because this year, Yokohama Arena show, that drew 18,000 plus fans.
00:10:13.992 --> 00:10:19.812
And a lot of these male fans, it was their first women's match live.
00:10:20.112 --> 00:10:21.472
You know, they attended the big show.
00:10:21.872 --> 00:10:26.072
So there's, you know, right, let's come back for a more live show, you know.
00:10:26.212 --> 00:10:31.032
And that year alone, all Japan women had, you know, Osaka Fritz,
00:10:31.212 --> 00:10:36.472
Budokan, you know, Nippon Budokan and Nagoya, you know,
00:10:37.072 --> 00:10:41.232
Rainbow Nagoya Hall show that the Tokyo Bay NK Hall.
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That's a nice 10,000 people audience building that's right next to Tokyo Disneyland but that building,
00:10:51.434 --> 00:10:56.574
Tokyo Bay NK Hall it's not there anymore but for about 10 year period a lot
00:10:56.574 --> 00:11:01.694
of the big show was held at the Tokyo Bay NK Hall right next to Tokyo Disneyland that's another,
00:11:01.754 --> 00:11:11.734
well useless trivia and end of this December 93 they finally came back to Sumo Arena Sumo Palace,
00:11:12.534 --> 00:11:15.574
yeah some more palace
00:11:15.574 --> 00:11:19.574
you know didn't they hadn't had that similar power show since crash
00:11:19.574 --> 00:11:22.754
girls era so that was symbolic and i
00:11:22.754 --> 00:11:25.714
think listeners that might be a little younger need
00:11:25.714 --> 00:11:28.774
to also recognize that at this time
00:11:28.774 --> 00:11:34.534
there wasn't such a thing as mma quite yet it wasn't nope nope not yet we were
00:11:34.534 --> 00:11:39.494
talking about rousey earlier ronda rousey had the option she she went into ufc
00:11:39.494 --> 00:11:43.154
and MMA first because she had that option because it had already established
00:11:43.154 --> 00:11:46.394
itself as a business by the time she started while Kandori,
00:11:46.634 --> 00:11:49.914
probably I would say it's safe to say she would have done something similar.
00:11:52.094 --> 00:11:56.934
Kandori, she would have done that, right, right, I think so in Japan you had
00:11:56.934 --> 00:12:02.134
to wait till late 90s, right Shinobu Kandori debuted 86,
00:12:02.434 --> 00:12:05.194
yeah so she and others that
00:12:05.194 --> 00:12:08.754
wrestled like her were ahead of their time and along
00:12:08.754 --> 00:12:12.394
with the the uwf groups and all the
00:12:12.394 --> 00:12:15.294
shooters this slightly different
00:12:15.294 --> 00:12:18.674
era right right so they in pro wrestling
00:12:18.674 --> 00:12:21.914
terms and pro wrestling context it was it had
00:12:21.914 --> 00:12:25.674
a different flavor than it would now it could only have happened then
00:12:25.674 --> 00:12:28.634
in the 90s because and that's also what
00:12:28.634 --> 00:12:31.374
gave it that uh that intensity and that
00:12:31.374 --> 00:12:34.434
a lot there was a lot of fire between hokuto
00:12:34.434 --> 00:12:37.814
and kandori in that match it was really like a precursor to
00:12:37.814 --> 00:12:40.714
the uwf excuse me uwfi new
00:12:40.714 --> 00:12:43.574
japan feud a couple years later where
00:12:43.574 --> 00:12:47.474
they seem like it pro wrestling versus shoot
00:12:47.474 --> 00:12:51.234
fighting mixed martial arts whatever you want to call it right not
00:12:51.234 --> 00:12:58.894
quite mma yet but not pro wrestling either or not yeah yeah so and and people
00:12:58.894 --> 00:13:04.174
it's progressing but not fully grew out of you know the traditional pro wrestling
00:13:04.174 --> 00:13:09.134
flavor either but But the wrestling fans enjoy that, though, because, you know.
00:13:09.894 --> 00:13:15.194
Like you and the same in America or Japan, the wrestling fans generally grew
00:13:15.194 --> 00:13:19.474
up being told that wrestling is fake, wrestling is bad, you know,
00:13:19.614 --> 00:13:24.254
and whomever loved wrestling so much as a kid, you know, they tell you in your neighborhood,
00:13:24.474 --> 00:13:28.094
some uncle or the school teacher, your homeroom teacher will tell you.
00:13:29.288 --> 00:13:34.588
Oh, the wrestling. You know, so we have same stigma, you know?
00:13:34.948 --> 00:13:40.348
So there's a time that they proved, look, watch this match. You call it fake? Huh? Right?
00:13:40.808 --> 00:13:45.688
So wrestling fans always have to, like, almost defend themselves, defend myself. Yeah.
00:13:46.448 --> 00:13:51.628
And I think a lot of those wrestlers from that time were the heroes of the people
00:13:51.628 --> 00:13:53.768
who felt that way. Like Sayama.
00:13:56.628 --> 00:14:01.808
Yeah, but a lot of them, like, you know. Satoru Sayama himself that created
00:14:01.808 --> 00:14:06.568
Shuto, a complete MMA genre.
00:14:07.148 --> 00:14:12.948
UWF, then into Fujiwara Gumi, then Funaki and Minoru Suzuki ended up starting Pancras.
00:14:13.188 --> 00:14:18.368
And Pancras ended up being complete MMA today. You know, nothing to do with pro wrestling anymore.
00:14:18.788 --> 00:14:21.608
This is interesting, you know, history piece there.
00:14:21.768 --> 00:14:27.688
But anyhow, yeah, different path. Some people like Nobuhiko Takada joined with
00:14:27.688 --> 00:14:30.328
MMA and never were able to come back.
00:14:30.448 --> 00:14:33.868
You know, I wish they did. But, you know what I'm saying?
00:14:34.368 --> 00:14:39.788
Well, he's more like a TV personality these days. He's not really much of a fighter. Oh, yeah.
00:14:41.708 --> 00:14:46.468
Retired. And Nobuhiko Takada, in his case, he doesn't mingle with wrestling
00:14:46.468 --> 00:14:49.548
people anymore. No, he's like, you know, he's a talent. Yeah.
00:14:50.462 --> 00:14:57.662
Yeah, yeah, definitely talent. Just the other day, I happened to switch channel,
00:14:57.802 --> 00:14:59.902
and then I saw him as a detective or something.
00:15:00.862 --> 00:15:07.342
Yeah. Yeah, he's transitioned to the post-wrestling life, like some wrestlers
00:15:07.342 --> 00:15:09.402
over here do too, John Cena or The Rock.
00:15:10.302 --> 00:15:15.702
Right. Like Riki Choshu, and yeah, yeah, right. That's fine. That's fine with me.
00:15:15.862 --> 00:15:21.242
But back to women's wrestling, this 1993, April 2nd, Yokohama Arena show was
00:15:21.242 --> 00:15:23.142
a big landmark, you know, landmark, I think.
00:15:23.342 --> 00:15:27.662
And that year alone, they had a lot of, you know, huge shows,
00:15:27.682 --> 00:15:33.002
like almost every month, every month, you know, the Budokan this month and Osaka
00:15:33.002 --> 00:15:36.322
next month and the following month, Nagoya, the back to Tokyo,
00:15:36.542 --> 00:15:38.042
the Sumo Palace and all these things.
00:15:38.342 --> 00:15:44.982
And well into 94, they had another Yokohama Arena in March again.
00:15:44.982 --> 00:15:47.502
And then August, you know, Budokan.
00:15:47.702 --> 00:15:51.982
And then 94, in November, you have Tokyo Dome. Yeah.
00:15:52.842 --> 00:15:59.062
So around this time, who were the superstars that people wanted to see the most?
00:15:59.062 --> 00:16:03.382
Who was at the forefront of these couple years, 93, 94, 95?
00:16:03.602 --> 00:16:11.102
Bonacano, Ajakon, Manami Toyota, Kyoko Inoue, Takako Inoue, Mima Shimoda.
00:16:11.502 --> 00:16:18.662
Yeah, those. And we mingled well enough with JWP and LLPW.
00:16:19.022 --> 00:16:22.982
The hardcore wrestling fan knew of Shinobu Kandori, right?
00:16:23.282 --> 00:16:27.682
But by having this in a promotional match, that the people started going to
00:16:27.682 --> 00:16:30.522
LLPW show. So that was a win-win situation.
00:16:31.142 --> 00:16:38.222
And with JWP, there were people like Dynamite Kanzai, the Quri Suzuki,
00:16:38.882 --> 00:16:43.162
the Mayumi Ozaki. that they got their own stars, right?
00:16:43.462 --> 00:16:47.862
And there was like a single match, Aja Kong against Dynamite Kansai. Oh, wow.
00:16:49.796 --> 00:16:53.536
I almost said the two tough guys, but no, no, tough women. I'm sorry.
00:16:53.916 --> 00:16:58.336
That like a short hair, you know, that the costume is really masculine.
00:16:58.596 --> 00:17:01.796
And it's like, they're women, but they were a type of, you know,
00:17:02.236 --> 00:17:04.196
Manami Toyota type of women's wrestler.
00:17:04.536 --> 00:17:08.116
But there's a type of Dynamite Council in Ajakon and Kyoko, you know,
00:17:08.196 --> 00:17:14.876
the more boyish kind of athletes that they catered to different kind of audience,
00:17:15.056 --> 00:17:16.936
if I don't, you know what I'm talking about.
00:17:16.936 --> 00:17:20.136
They wrestled more like orthodox style
00:17:20.136 --> 00:17:22.896
male wrestling like they didn't do any of
00:17:22.896 --> 00:17:25.976
the high flying any of the lucha yeah and both dynamite
00:17:25.976 --> 00:17:29.476
kansai and and aj aj aj it works
00:17:29.476 --> 00:17:32.436
like uwf almost kicking pad and this
00:17:32.436 --> 00:17:35.316
mma finger gloves and the the
00:17:35.316 --> 00:17:38.276
suplex submission and they don't
00:17:38.276 --> 00:17:42.496
even lock up they'll kick you first you know i'm saying more style
00:17:42.496 --> 00:17:45.256
was there yeah yeah kind of mirrored what
00:17:45.256 --> 00:17:48.536
was popular in some circles at the time with men's
00:17:48.536 --> 00:17:51.476
wrestling and with yeah with a with the
00:17:51.476 --> 00:17:54.376
women's wrestling all japan's
00:17:54.376 --> 00:17:57.916
women didn't have as much of that flavor as
00:17:57.916 --> 00:18:04.896
the non-japan women's groups and all japan women's had the influence from male
00:18:04.896 --> 00:18:11.596
wrestling yeah and the manami toyota admits that she grew up watching all japan
00:18:11.596 --> 00:18:16.436
women but never really watched men's wrestling very interesting you know so
00:18:16.436 --> 00:18:17.736
it's a completely different style.
00:18:18.416 --> 00:18:22.636
Almost like a different sport NFL Sunday Ticket is now on YouTube and YouTube
00:18:22.636 --> 00:18:27.156
TV which means that it just got easier to be an NFL fan even if you live far
00:18:27.156 --> 00:18:31.556
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Oh, before I forget, 1993 was a year that Chigusa Nagayo made a comeback.
00:19:29.002 --> 00:19:34.702
She died back in 89, but she decided to come back as a wrestler.
00:19:34.702 --> 00:19:41.742
And 94 Lioness Asuka another half of Crash Girls Lioness Asuka decided to make
00:19:41.742 --> 00:19:45.742
a comeback in 94 which was interesting and initially,
00:19:46.522 --> 00:19:51.922
Nagayo worked you know shows for all Japan women but they announced that August
00:19:51.922 --> 00:19:57.482
of 94 that she's starting a new group called Gaia Japan another new company
00:19:57.482 --> 00:20:03.102
yes and Gaia Japan yeah their first show won't happen until 95 but the.
00:20:04.704 --> 00:20:09.504
Gaia Japan is famous for this. It was a British documentary,
00:20:09.684 --> 00:20:16.484
Gaia Girls, that they did a long documentary movie that was really almost like a violent,
00:20:17.384 --> 00:20:22.004
that these young girls trying to become a professional wrestler,
00:20:22.204 --> 00:20:24.304
they had a long documentary.
00:20:25.264 --> 00:20:31.404
You should maybe, you know this movie, so maybe you better explain that to the audience.
00:20:31.644 --> 00:20:34.344
Yeah, it was a BBC documentary in 1999.
00:20:34.704 --> 00:20:37.604
2000 was it right around that time
00:20:37.604 --> 00:20:40.524
and yeah we got a lot
00:20:40.524 --> 00:20:43.704
yeah of nagai she was
00:20:43.704 --> 00:20:46.604
in charge of the gaia school and we saw a
00:20:46.604 --> 00:20:49.584
young and very intense meiko satamura i think 15 was
00:20:49.584 --> 00:20:52.444
she 15 15 year old meiko satamura was in it yeah
00:20:52.444 --> 00:20:55.464
my gosh she's intense right on ninth grade yeah she didn't
00:20:55.464 --> 00:20:58.324
even go go back to school 10th grade 10th grade
00:20:58.324 --> 00:21:01.124
she decided to become wrestler and a few
00:21:01.124 --> 00:21:03.944
years later she i think around that time she did show up on a
00:21:03.944 --> 00:21:07.324
wcw broadcast yeah yeah right that's
00:21:07.324 --> 00:21:10.144
a smaller show like wcw world or
00:21:10.144 --> 00:21:17.924
wcw pro yeah worldwide yeah wcw pro wcw worldwide show yeah and her taped like
00:21:17.924 --> 00:21:23.784
three matches and left yeah her and we matz yes but yeah the documentary i think
00:21:23.784 --> 00:21:28.704
it's pretty easy to find on youtube or daily motion if you just type in gaia girls g-a-e-a,
00:21:29.384 --> 00:21:31.344
girls. It's out there.
00:21:32.384 --> 00:21:36.804
It's pretty intense. Not for the faint of heart. Right, and also how brutal
00:21:36.804 --> 00:21:39.824
the training was and almost like a vibe.
00:21:40.524 --> 00:21:45.784
It was almost like they had to prove. It was a very shocking documentary piece.
00:21:47.144 --> 00:21:48.304
Serious, they were.
00:21:50.284 --> 00:21:54.784
It wasn't the original for Chigusa Nagayo because it was the exact training
00:21:54.784 --> 00:21:59.224
that she went through as a rookie when she was with All Japan Women.
00:22:01.022 --> 00:22:06.102
So it was a kind of a first glimpse into that kind of background world. Right, right.
00:22:06.582 --> 00:22:10.982
And documentary and the movie footage. Yeah, and you can still watch that.
00:22:11.222 --> 00:22:12.702
And that's how they do in Japan.
00:22:13.842 --> 00:22:17.682
It was something. It was almost prejudice, but not so far from reality.
00:22:17.882 --> 00:22:21.502
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's 94, the boom period.
00:22:22.342 --> 00:22:27.462
Yeah? Oh, I was just going to mention before, if anybody's a fan of Hiroto Sakura,
00:22:27.862 --> 00:22:30.842
that Gaia movie, it features. She's in it.
00:22:31.022 --> 00:22:33.862
I think 14-year-old Hirota Sakura.
00:22:34.302 --> 00:22:38.002
It's funny to see. She's a mother of two now, but it was a while ago.
00:22:38.582 --> 00:22:42.062
So there was a funny kind of wrestler and a serious kind of wrestler because
00:22:42.062 --> 00:22:46.382
Hirota Sakura and Meiko Satomura is like a complete...
00:22:47.402 --> 00:22:48.482
Night and day.
00:22:50.442 --> 00:22:55.722
Extreme from one end of the spectrum to the other, yeah. But they both came
00:22:55.722 --> 00:22:57.662
out of the Gaia school. Same training.
00:22:59.242 --> 00:23:04.402
Same training camp, yeah. So, 93, huge period.
00:23:05.022 --> 00:23:14.182
And also, that was the year that Bo Nakano, the Aja Kong finally beat Bo Nakano for the red belt.
00:23:14.762 --> 00:23:16.782
So, the torch was handed.
00:23:18.282 --> 00:23:23.922
Bo Nakano, huge superstar, but she dropped the title, red belt,
00:23:24.442 --> 00:23:27.542
the World Japan, the WWWA world title to Aja.
00:23:27.722 --> 00:23:32.782
So, Aja becomes a total main event. And Bonacano decided to leave four-time schedule.
00:23:33.082 --> 00:23:37.062
First, she went to Mexico and became CMLL Women's Champion.
00:23:37.422 --> 00:23:41.642
Then in 1994, she went to WWF.
00:23:42.082 --> 00:23:47.902
And it's not that Bonacano wanted to go, but it was Alondra Blaze,
00:23:48.162 --> 00:23:52.422
Medusa, who became Alondra Blaze in WWF.
00:23:52.422 --> 00:24:00.982
And they put a package together, WWF Women's Champion, Alondra Blaze against Bonacano in America.
00:24:01.282 --> 00:24:03.302
And that was Bonacano's transition.
00:24:03.962 --> 00:24:10.222
For Tokyo Dome, November 94, November 20, Tokyo Dome card, Alondra Blaze against
00:24:10.222 --> 00:24:15.442
Bonacano title match was brought back from America and had that.
00:24:15.622 --> 00:24:22.002
So when Tokyo Dome showed, it was like an eight-hour show. I was there the entire day.
00:24:24.322 --> 00:24:29.282
You were on commentary I watched so many matches that day It's almost like escaping,
00:24:30.022 --> 00:24:33.602
Yeah, I couldn't do all eight hours But I did a three hour portion of it We
00:24:33.602 --> 00:24:36.922
switched, you know, because people were getting tired And you can't call, you know,
00:24:37.142 --> 00:24:41.602
all the matches For eight, nine hours So we, you know, traded a spot Yeah,
00:24:41.642 --> 00:24:45.282
and yeah, I was doing that What did fans do?
00:24:46.142 --> 00:24:49.922
I guess they decided To stay, or some of the matches You know,
00:24:50.282 --> 00:24:54.222
there was actually like Like, you know, Miyu Yamamoto is, you know,
00:24:54.282 --> 00:24:57.562
amateur wrestling gold medal champion, older sister of Yamamoto.
00:24:58.745 --> 00:25:03.985
Yamamoto Kid Yoshifumi, and they brought this Olympic level women's amateur
00:25:03.985 --> 00:25:08.805
wrestlers, you know, yeah, Kid Yamamoto's older sister, Miyu Yamamoto,
00:25:08.985 --> 00:25:13.005
she wrestled, not professional match, but the exhibition in professional ring.
00:25:13.765 --> 00:25:18.705
And there was time that, well, I guess people decide to just get up and go get
00:25:18.705 --> 00:25:22.485
something to drink or something to eat and come back and, you know, and watch more.
00:25:22.705 --> 00:25:28.625
So, like, almost like going to ball game, you know, you can't pay attention to every second.
00:25:28.745 --> 00:25:32.805
Of it and every match of every second of it for eight
00:25:32.805 --> 00:25:35.965
hours four hours eight nine eight is
00:25:35.965 --> 00:25:38.965
eight nine hours you know impossible but they yeah that was
00:25:38.965 --> 00:25:44.585
yeah yeah and then also all japan women's wrestling company knew that it was
00:25:44.585 --> 00:25:49.125
that the one and only time they would be running tokyo dome so i guess they
00:25:49.125 --> 00:25:54.285
wanted to have everything on it you know you know there was mm not the mma but
00:25:54.285 --> 00:25:56.205
they They used to call it Vali Tudo.
00:25:56.825 --> 00:25:59.345
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything goes match.
00:26:00.185 --> 00:26:07.125
And the interesting was that Chigusa Nagayo against Reggie Bennett single match.
00:26:07.365 --> 00:26:11.045
And they had, you know, and also one night tournament going,
00:26:11.225 --> 00:26:15.965
you know, and also it was Akira Hokuto's first retirement show, you know, card.
00:26:16.845 --> 00:26:21.845
And Aja Kong against Manami Toyota single match. They put a lot of interesting
00:26:21.845 --> 00:26:24.825
thing on it. But I think it was just tiring.
00:26:25.385 --> 00:26:31.165
And to be honest with you, I don't really remember all the details of matches from that night.
00:26:31.625 --> 00:26:33.825
I just remember the fact that I was there.
00:26:34.685 --> 00:26:38.945
So weren't any big memorable moments? Is there anything you can recall?
00:26:40.105 --> 00:26:46.485
It's just a bit in peace, you know, because it was something that happened at Tokyo Dome.
00:26:46.485 --> 00:26:49.845
And it was all that thing is how I remember. and also
00:26:49.845 --> 00:26:53.885
when you watch Tokyo Dome you know wrestling show
00:26:53.885 --> 00:26:58.565
at the Tokyo Dome it always happens that you are not really watching ring you
00:26:58.565 --> 00:27:03.825
are watching the monitor right yeah especially if you're sitting farther away
00:27:03.825 --> 00:27:11.965
oh yeah every scene is pretty far away if you ask me and the ring and you hear thumbs.
00:27:14.202 --> 00:27:17.122
You know like a bottom or hip toss or something you hear the sound from
00:27:17.122 --> 00:27:19.782
you know from your right ear but you hear like a
00:27:19.782 --> 00:27:23.902
half second delay sound from that screen you know the something really kind
00:27:23.902 --> 00:27:30.662
of strange feeling it's like almost half second delay you have two sounds you
00:27:30.662 --> 00:27:35.642
know different sound and that that takes attention away from you but that happens
00:27:35.642 --> 00:27:39.342
every tokyo dome show you know even New Japan's, you know, Wrestle Kingdom,
00:27:40.022 --> 00:27:42.482
everybody's watching this from pretty far away.
00:27:42.822 --> 00:27:49.042
And if you're not in a big floor arena, that's still far away too.
00:27:49.122 --> 00:27:53.962
But if you're sitting on a stand, you will be watching the big monitor,
00:27:54.282 --> 00:27:57.322
you know, what they call it, or a vision. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:57.982 --> 00:28:02.302
Yeah, there's really no way around it. There's a delayed reaction on the big
00:28:02.302 --> 00:28:03.942
matches. Right, right. Yeah.
00:28:04.622 --> 00:28:07.502
So the being in being there and
00:28:07.502 --> 00:28:10.702
being part of the big historical show was
00:28:10.702 --> 00:28:13.802
what it was about and yeah i think
00:28:13.802 --> 00:28:16.682
uh if you watch this tokyo dome car on
00:28:16.682 --> 00:28:19.782
video it's out there that uh
00:28:19.782 --> 00:28:22.662
it looked like a completely different night too so now
00:28:22.662 --> 00:28:25.302
that if you want to watch the serious content of the match as a
00:28:25.302 --> 00:28:28.302
match that you should go back and watch videos but the fact
00:28:28.302 --> 00:28:32.362
you were there was just as important yeah but uh
00:28:32.362 --> 00:28:35.122
a lot of people call this you know like a
00:28:35.122 --> 00:28:38.262
the peak and the highest moment
00:28:38.262 --> 00:28:41.982
of this woman's you know joshi wrestling's boom
00:28:41.982 --> 00:28:45.362
period but it was actually the tokyo
00:28:45.362 --> 00:28:48.682
dome was like the beginning of the end beginning of
00:28:48.682 --> 00:28:51.462
the end almost i why do
00:28:51.462 --> 00:28:54.602
you say it was the beginning of the end the next year 95 that they
00:28:54.602 --> 00:28:57.282
still had yokohama arena beginning yeah beginning of the
00:28:57.282 --> 00:29:00.722
end because it was like something that something peaked and
00:29:00.722 --> 00:29:03.702
also you and i are old enough to
00:29:03.702 --> 00:29:06.802
look at this three-year period of something concrete some.
00:29:06.802 --> 00:29:10.042
Three-year period when you were young like when
00:29:10.042 --> 00:29:13.662
you in a teenage or 20s you know three years
00:29:13.662 --> 00:29:16.462
seem like forever does that make sense
00:29:16.462 --> 00:29:19.522
it seemed like a long long three years
00:29:19.522 --> 00:29:22.422
yeah yeah so it was like the boom
00:29:22.422 --> 00:29:25.082
period anything you know
00:29:25.082 --> 00:29:28.522
that the disco music or uh the space invader
00:29:28.522 --> 00:29:31.402
or there's a game you know some computer game video boy something
00:29:31.402 --> 00:29:34.842
that your favorite thing you know that the software or
00:29:34.842 --> 00:29:38.142
something the actual boom peak
00:29:38.142 --> 00:29:43.362
period is about three years you know what i'm saying and then it kind of tapers
00:29:43.362 --> 00:29:50.802
this was yeah right right and i think that this november 94 tokyo dome show
00:29:50.802 --> 00:29:52.202
was like the beginning of the
00:29:52.202 --> 00:29:56.842
end they still had Yokohama Arena show the following year, you know, the.
00:29:58.088 --> 00:30:03.328
The small palace show and all these things, but it was like, wasn't really there.
00:30:03.468 --> 00:30:09.588
And when they finally had two consecutive nights at the Budokan in August of
00:30:09.588 --> 00:30:14.028
96, we saw some empty, empty seats. Yeah.
00:30:15.068 --> 00:30:23.708
And that was a 96 was the year Akira Hokuto coming, coming out of retires just after two short years.
00:30:23.868 --> 00:30:28.808
And she joined Gaia Japan for that this time, you know, And also another group
00:30:28.808 --> 00:30:35.888
called JD, you know, John Dark, JD started and Jaguar Yokota became coach of that.
00:30:36.588 --> 00:30:41.428
And a lot of the new thing, you know, not just all Japan women,
00:30:41.648 --> 00:30:46.108
but, you know, actually Bonacano is no longer the part of the all Japan women group.
00:30:46.108 --> 00:30:51.368
And Aja Kong and Manami Toyota, the Kyoko Inoue, the Mima Shimoda,
00:30:51.688 --> 00:30:56.328
the Mita probably, and probably Yumi Kohota.
00:30:56.628 --> 00:30:58.568
That's about the big roster.
00:30:58.948 --> 00:31:05.228
But something was missing already in the year of 95, 96. In my eyes, yeah.
00:31:05.968 --> 00:31:11.368
So they burned out new wrestling fans or they just...
00:31:12.508 --> 00:31:16.008
I guess Boomperio was coming to an end.
00:31:16.108 --> 00:31:20.288
It felt like yeah so when
00:31:20.288 --> 00:31:23.468
was it exactly that all Japan women started to
00:31:23.468 --> 00:31:27.448
fizzle out falling I think it
00:31:27.448 --> 00:31:30.368
started falling like the summer
00:31:30.368 --> 00:31:37.728
spring of 97 it lasted 96 you know and they were still having their last corner
00:31:37.728 --> 00:31:44.788
in a promotion match all Japan against JWP all Japan women against LLPW and
00:31:44.788 --> 00:31:48.088
trying to scratch every bit of it.
00:31:48.648 --> 00:31:53.648
In 1997, Kyoko Inoue all of a sudden quit all Japan women.
00:31:55.268 --> 00:32:03.588
Because they were actually late for the paychecks every month Saturday.
00:32:03.968 --> 00:32:10.708
What was interesting was that September of 1997, September of 1997,
00:32:11.408 --> 00:32:16.568
all Japan women all of a sudden filed bankruptcy. Oh, right?
00:32:17.428 --> 00:32:20.528
Wait a minute. That lasted until 2005, right?
00:32:20.808 --> 00:32:26.568
What was so interesting was that the old Japan women's company in 1997,
00:32:27.348 --> 00:32:33.788
when they filed their bankruptcy, that meaning that no bank will do business with you, right?
00:32:35.979 --> 00:32:40.139
That make sense yeah hello are
00:32:40.139 --> 00:32:43.759
you there yeah yeah what was
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.179
happening was that they announced that after they're
00:32:47.179 --> 00:32:50.459
betting the first bankruptcy they announced it
00:32:50.459 --> 00:32:53.699
we will be still running wrestling show
00:32:53.699 --> 00:32:56.999
how right cash only basis
00:32:56.999 --> 00:33:04.479
that was like oh that's just like a hope it's it's making any sense is anything
00:33:04.479 --> 00:33:09.299
you could say about right now you could say they were in trouble by they filed
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:15.859
bankruptcy and yeah yeah and all japan women you know we haven't covered this much but,
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:24.379
it's a very interesting you know company they opened business six 1968 right
00:33:24.379 --> 00:33:31.039
and they always had this channel eight fujitelevisions you know the fujitelevision
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:36.179
always carried the show and it I was also paying them annual rights fee.
00:33:36.479 --> 00:33:41.299
You know, there's a good chunk of money coming from the network channel.
00:33:41.539 --> 00:33:44.339
And actually, they were in business for 10 years by then.
00:33:44.779 --> 00:33:49.959
And the Old Japan Women's Wrestling, 1968 to 1997. So they lasted 30 years,
00:33:50.059 --> 00:33:51.399
right? Almost, you know.
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:57.599
And New Japan, Anthony Noki's New Japan Pro Wrestling never had their own building.
00:33:57.879 --> 00:34:02.039
You know, they were in one floor of some building, right?
00:34:02.999 --> 00:34:06.779
Giant Barbers, All Japan Pro Wrestling, they never had their own building.
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:13.179
You know, again, All Japan, you know, Giant Barbers.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.759
Whereas all Japan women own their own building, two buildings in Meguro.
00:34:21.099 --> 00:34:26.759
And there was like, we used to call it palace because it's a two building built,
00:34:26.919 --> 00:34:28.339
you know, right next to each other.
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:33.819
One had this, you know, the parking space where they can park three different
00:34:33.819 --> 00:34:37.899
buses, you know, like two buses, baby face and the heel bus.
00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:43.279
And also that another truck to have just the ring and cheers in there, you know.
00:34:43.279 --> 00:34:48.099
And the second half of this the ground floor, there was a dojo you know,
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:52.799
dojo, all Japan dojo was ringing and everybody practiced and second floor,
00:34:52.979 --> 00:34:55.839
they had the office and the second floor, left hand,
00:34:56.419 --> 00:35:03.339
half the building they had Sanzoku, the big restaurant and the third floor fourth floor on, that the,
00:35:03.919 --> 00:35:09.379
rookies and girls were living and up on fifth floor midgets were living, you know, the midget,
00:35:09.839 --> 00:35:13.179
wrestlers, and they had restaurants they
00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:16.579
had karaoke houses you know
00:35:16.579 --> 00:35:19.419
but karaoke you know studio is not i mean
00:35:19.419 --> 00:35:22.419
it's like you can now you call it you know the karaoke became english word
00:35:22.419 --> 00:35:25.979
but they were they had karaoke studio bar
00:35:25.979 --> 00:35:30.979
way back in 80s you know and they had different restaurants they had ramen houses
00:35:30.979 --> 00:35:38.279
and they had real estate department and we don't know much details but all japan
00:35:38.279 --> 00:35:42.539
women and four Matsunaga brothers were the only one had their own building and
00:35:42.539 --> 00:35:44.619
their own restaurant going and real estate.
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:48.219
Department and they must be doing.
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.519
Fortune right something probably about the real estate you know that,
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:59.859
the part something they done or something that they lost a lot of money or something
00:35:59.859 --> 00:36:06.819
and then all of a sudden 1997 you know a year after this peak year they were
00:36:06.819 --> 00:36:11.779
filing bankruptcy and nobody knew what was really the reason for it.
00:36:12.359 --> 00:36:18.359
But they still announced it, that they are still running wrestling shows because they're,
00:36:19.308 --> 00:36:24.948
The boss, Takashima Tsunaga's core. This is the only thing they can sell now.
00:36:25.588 --> 00:36:31.608
And on cash-only based business, between 1997 and 2005, they lasted another
00:36:31.608 --> 00:36:33.228
seven years. It's just incredible.
00:36:34.588 --> 00:36:36.348
And different kind of people, right?
00:36:38.288 --> 00:36:42.928
Diehards. Diehards help really. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:43.628 --> 00:36:50.348
And also more like a bank and pay, you know, like a checkbooks and the bookkeeping.
00:36:50.728 --> 00:36:53.448
It's not holding it. They can still run wrestling.
00:36:54.368 --> 00:36:57.188
Cash in cash out every, you know, night out, night in, you know,
00:36:57.248 --> 00:37:01.868
day in, day out. They can still operate wrestling. And that's exactly what they did.
00:37:02.228 --> 00:37:07.188
Another seven years. I needed to point that out because 1997 was the year that
00:37:07.188 --> 00:37:09.268
the first Kyoko Inoue left.
00:37:09.528 --> 00:37:12.068
Then Rossi left the company, Rossi Ogawa.
00:37:14.368 --> 00:37:18.228
And Kyoko Inoue started her first neo ladies wrestling.
00:37:18.508 --> 00:37:27.628
And Rossi Ogawa, they took Aja Khan and Reggie Bennett, Mariko Yoshida,
00:37:27.888 --> 00:37:32.788
and like a 567 girl came with Rossi Ogawa and he started his Arsion company.
00:37:33.088 --> 00:37:39.908
Yeah, like a forerunner of today's startup. Yeah. The first company Rossi started was Arsion. Yeah.
00:37:40.368 --> 00:37:48.028
That started in 1997. that meaning that all Japan was you know like going to
00:37:48.028 --> 00:37:55.948
three you know different you know like a split you know Bonakano is not part
00:37:55.948 --> 00:37:59.528
of that group anymore and Akira Hokuto in,
00:38:00.952 --> 00:38:06.032
was not part of the group. She joined Gaia Japan and Toshio Yamada later on
00:38:06.032 --> 00:38:13.292
joined Gaia Japan as well because Toshio Yamada was like Chigusa Nagaya's number one pro-J.
00:38:14.792 --> 00:38:18.652
So it's like half the crew left, all Japan women.
00:38:19.212 --> 00:38:25.192
And Manami Toyota became like a single main event wrestler with all japan woman
00:38:25.192 --> 00:38:32.872
yeah that year and that's already end of 1990s right so the millennium,
00:38:33.672 --> 00:38:36.652
coming and you hear that the
00:38:36.652 --> 00:38:43.832
96 97 was the year nobihiko takada had this hickson gracie match at the tokyo
00:38:43.832 --> 00:38:49.472
dome like your uwfi superstar and the best thing ever nobihiko takada right
00:38:49.472 --> 00:38:55.172
and had this Tokyo Dome MMA match against Hickson Gracie two years in a row 96,
00:38:55.392 --> 00:38:59.052
97, two years in a row he lost in a few minutes, you know what I'm saying and
00:38:59.052 --> 00:39:01.912
it was like, that's when this really,
00:39:03.532 --> 00:39:06.772
loyal professional pro wrestling fan starts scratching their heads.
00:39:08.452 --> 00:39:11.392
Something wrong with this picture, right? are you with me on this?
00:39:12.972 --> 00:39:15.732
People's, what's the word not just their minds were
00:39:15.732 --> 00:39:18.592
changing but it was the whole perception of what pro wrestling
00:39:18.592 --> 00:39:21.672
was was completely flipping over on
00:39:21.672 --> 00:39:24.552
its head at least in japan at first and then later in states
00:39:24.552 --> 00:39:28.532
and worldwide yeah because ufc was
00:39:28.532 --> 00:39:31.332
was not you know they're not you know
00:39:31.332 --> 00:39:34.992
running shows in japan but the videotape and
00:39:34.992 --> 00:39:40.272
and and you know like a cable satellite tv special of ufc was happening and
00:39:40.272 --> 00:39:47.172
also people have seen masakatsu funaki minoru suzuki ken shamrock's pancras
00:39:47.172 --> 00:39:52.412
you know coming out of traditional pro wrestling and pro wrestlers start MMA.
00:39:52.652 --> 00:39:57.712
There was no word yet. I don't think, but the MMA type professional wrestling
00:39:57.712 --> 00:40:01.232
around that time era. So people start going like, huh.
00:40:01.472 --> 00:40:08.132
And if it was all a hundred percent legitimate contest, it would not look like that. Right.
00:40:08.472 --> 00:40:14.492
And yeah. So the millennium coming and just the beginning of dark age of professional wrestling.
00:40:17.372 --> 00:40:20.172
And trend. That's what I'm saying, I think.
00:40:21.172 --> 00:40:29.552
Then, yeah, then 99, 2000, of course, wrestling is around, you know, but, oh, wow, this,
00:40:30.492 --> 00:40:33.892
something about this, you know, this pro wrestling was like,
00:40:34.372 --> 00:40:37.112
people, I mean, even the lawyers wrestling fans,
00:40:38.303 --> 00:40:43.503
wrestling was something that we all enjoyed during the 20th century.
00:40:44.063 --> 00:40:52.163
And when the 21st century comes, it may not be part of our everyday life or
00:40:52.163 --> 00:40:53.863
something. We had the feeling.
00:40:54.123 --> 00:40:57.383
A real bad feeling about pro wrestling. Does that make sense?
00:40:57.783 --> 00:41:01.463
There was a gray cloudiness in the air.
00:41:02.023 --> 00:41:05.203
Yeah, wrestling was changing. Yeah, everything
00:41:05.203 --> 00:41:08.163
has to come to an end or something
00:41:08.163 --> 00:41:11.123
we really felt that during this millennium era
00:41:11.123 --> 00:41:14.823
you know people who liked like ufos
00:41:14.823 --> 00:41:17.903
you know like you know like you know what i'm saying yeah it's
00:41:17.903 --> 00:41:20.983
like oh that was all bad and it's like everything that
00:41:20.983 --> 00:41:28.963
you know like supernatural that was so fake all these misses solved before the
00:41:28.963 --> 00:41:38.463
new century or something all the music will be changed or everything will be once in 100 years,
00:41:38.643 --> 00:41:41.243
and we were there, and we really felt that.
00:41:42.163 --> 00:41:48.043
I mean, not all that much different from previous years, but we were led to
00:41:48.043 --> 00:41:52.683
believe that when a new century starts, everything will be different. Does that make sense?
00:41:53.383 --> 00:41:58.923
It was going to be different, but it was, everyone thought bigger or better. Yeah, of course.
00:41:59.543 --> 00:42:02.363
Bigger and better. It hasn't been, though.
00:42:02.363 --> 00:42:06.123
20 years later now it's what the covid and
00:42:06.123 --> 00:42:09.643
a war and well at that time i think joshua
00:42:09.643 --> 00:42:12.483
pro wrestling got smaller and more niche than ever
00:42:12.483 --> 00:42:15.443
for you know from between
00:42:15.443 --> 00:42:22.703
the yeah all in all that the boom era peak era really had to come to an end
00:42:22.703 --> 00:42:28.283
yeah but it's all we had to where the current stars came from a lot of the current
00:42:28.283 --> 00:42:33.663
stars that we see they came from this time period they came out of that time period Asuka,
00:42:33.923 --> 00:42:39.063
Yoshirai yeah yeah oh of course Yoshirai, Asuka or.
00:42:41.303 --> 00:42:48.663
Today's superstar didn't really watch good wrestling or that the 90s peak period
00:42:48.663 --> 00:42:54.623
was something they heard about or watch on old VHS tapes and there really was
00:42:54.623 --> 00:43:00.223
dark period not just women's wrestling but men's This is the rest.
00:43:02.060 --> 00:43:07.160
It's not a day to cover this, but we have to really touch this subject too.
00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:12.400
New Japan Pro Wrestling was the one who got hit the most.
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:20.980
Retired Inoki, Anthony Inoki, pretty much sided himself with the MMA world.
00:43:21.520 --> 00:43:26.140
You lived in Japan, and if you remember about the six, seven-year period,
00:43:26.140 --> 00:43:31.880
every New Year's Eve, December 31st. And NHK had.
00:43:34.540 --> 00:43:39.400
Always traditional singing, the music festival kind of thing all night long.
00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:46.600
And Channel 4 had Inoki Bomaiye. Channel 6 had Pride. Channel 8 had K1.
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.920
They all looked the same because all MMA shows all night long.
00:43:50.180 --> 00:43:55.600
Then there was not a wrestler. Oh, probably like a Kazuyuki Fujita from Kamara
00:43:55.600 --> 00:44:01.120
New Japan, But Fujita wasn't considered pro wrestlers anymore at the time.
00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:04.440
Probably maybe Kazushi Sakuraba.
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:11.940
But Kazushi Sakuraba's peak was much like 2001, 2002 when he beat Boyce Gracie.
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:18.900
But Sakuraba himself switched K1 and Pryde back and forth for this bigger contract or something.
00:44:19.040 --> 00:44:21.920
But people didn't look at Sakuraba as a professional wrestler.
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:26.380
The ones like Yuji Nagata, then IWGP champion,
00:44:26.680 --> 00:44:31.960
or somebody like Kendo Kashi without masks, they had matches against people
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:37.620
like Milko Krakop or Federer Emelienko with just two days training.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:38.880
That's impossible, right?
00:44:40.580 --> 00:44:47.080
It's still, every time you hear it, it's pretty unprecedented. I mean, shoot.
00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:53.200
And it really, it was a big gamble. all of it, there was a lot of big gambles yeah.
00:44:55.101 --> 00:45:00.001
Not that Nagata was, you know, not good enough.
00:45:00.261 --> 00:45:06.641
He, both Nagata, Yuji Nagata, Kendo Kashi, Ishizawa, or Manabu Nakanishi,
00:45:06.761 --> 00:45:11.521
they were all college wrestling champions that turned professional wrestler.
00:45:13.921 --> 00:45:19.401
Manabu Nakanishi's case, he was an Olympic wrestler, 92 bar and professional wrestler.
00:45:19.661 --> 00:45:22.841
But Inoki still had influence over this,
00:45:23.001 --> 00:45:25.641
you know, he wasn't even living in japan at the time he was
00:45:25.641 --> 00:45:30.981
living in la and la dojo it was another story for another day but inoki still
00:45:30.981 --> 00:45:37.341
had enough influence to call up new japan company in offices or send us nagata
00:45:37.341 --> 00:45:43.861
and kendokashin over for mmn they couldn't say no and nagata kendokashin both you know,
00:45:45.601 --> 00:45:49.001
it was under contract dress so that they couldn't say no about it but they you
00:45:49.001 --> 00:45:50.081
know they were nice about it.
00:45:50.241 --> 00:45:54.541
They showed up the night after they had a wrestling match and had a match against
00:45:54.541 --> 00:45:57.181
people like Krakow and Federer, Emelienko.
00:45:57.521 --> 00:46:02.021
Of course, they weren't ready for that. But that costed wrestling a lot,
00:46:02.201 --> 00:46:03.321
a lot more than the surface.
00:46:04.361 --> 00:46:09.841
A lot of loyal professional wrestling fans really left pro wrestling because of it.
00:46:10.101 --> 00:46:14.061
Well, I want to watch something like Pride and K1. I don't blame them.
00:46:16.181 --> 00:46:19.401
That was the dark of wrestling. and women's
00:46:19.401 --> 00:46:22.181
wrestling was not pop trying to get there oh it took them like
00:46:22.181 --> 00:46:25.181
years to you know we probably had
00:46:25.181 --> 00:46:31.621
to wait till like 2010 that's when rossi started his stardom this time yeah
00:46:31.621 --> 00:46:38.081
stardom already has 10 year history you know but it was 2005 all japan women
00:46:38.081 --> 00:46:43.821
you know finally went out of business and really closed the chapter i mean the biggest,
00:46:44.961 --> 00:46:51.621
a women's wrestling company and that had a rich history and they produced so many legends and.
00:46:53.081 --> 00:46:58.161
We said Joshi Pro Wrestling, Women's Pro Wrestling that meant All Japan Pro
00:46:58.161 --> 00:47:02.381
Wrestling All Japan Women's Pro Wrestling for decades but they finally went
00:47:02.381 --> 00:47:07.941
out of business in 2005 did we get any questions from listeners this time?
00:47:08.461 --> 00:47:11.421
No I don't have any at hand but if anybody
00:47:11.421 --> 00:47:14.381
has them they know where to get us they can get out of us at twitter or
00:47:14.381 --> 00:47:17.821
via email but uh we are
00:47:17.821 --> 00:47:22.561
recording this a little bit earlier than let's fast forward let's fast forward
00:47:22.561 --> 00:47:31.321
yeah right right but doing it every week you know write that down with me and
00:47:31.321 --> 00:47:35.121
you know justin nipper that that should happen every week.
00:47:36.161 --> 00:47:41.661
So I guess we're doing it. And fast forward a little bit that the 2005,
00:47:42.101 --> 00:47:47.801
yes, All Japan Women's finally had.
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.840
Closed out the shop and it really
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:55.900
went down and that was also the
00:47:55.900 --> 00:47:59.140
year Gaia Japan Chigusa Nagaya's
00:47:59.140 --> 00:48:02.220
Gaia Japan closed down too because they were only
00:48:02.220 --> 00:48:07.060
going to do it for 10 year period the sponsor that the money promoter person
00:48:07.060 --> 00:48:12.660
was only committed for 10 year and 10 year project was over and Nagaya Chigusa
00:48:12.660 --> 00:48:19.400
said yeah we'll close Gaia Japan 95 and 2006 was the year
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.900
Now grown-up superstar,
00:48:22.660 --> 00:48:27.640
Meiko Satomura opened her Sendai Girls Pro Wrestling 2006.
00:48:28.240 --> 00:48:31.280
I felt like that was a brand new era. Yes.
00:48:32.100 --> 00:48:38.740
And 2007, you know, the pro wrestling wave started. 2009, Ice Ribbon started.
00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:44.380
2011, the Deanna, the Reina, all these new companies coming out, you know.
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:52.720
And finally, I got a text message from Rossi one day in the spring of 2010,
00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:56.760
I believe, that, actually, I'm doing the company again. Are you sure?
00:48:57.140 --> 00:49:03.460
And I was really, really happy that I was chosen to be one of the very few people
00:49:03.460 --> 00:49:05.820
that Rossi decided to inform on.
00:49:06.080 --> 00:49:10.400
And, oh, great, please be careful, kind of thing, right? because he lost a lot
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:16.840
of money and he himself had to file his personal bankruptcy when the company Arsian went down.
00:49:17.080 --> 00:49:21.040
And he himself had to live in this dark place.
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.399
Professional wrestling for like several years and
00:49:25.399 --> 00:49:28.219
yeah and 2010 he decided to you
00:49:28.219 --> 00:49:31.139
know go you know back this company up
00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:34.059
and this time called stardom and i felt
00:49:34.059 --> 00:49:39.399
really really it was like a promising it's like it was all accident when almost
00:49:39.399 --> 00:49:45.499
like an accident when rossi started the stardom 2010 if you remember fuka another
00:49:45.499 --> 00:49:51.859
idol wrestler that was like a niche niche niche but pretty popular.
00:49:53.099 --> 00:50:00.459
And Rossi for about five year period was just running small and just had enough 300,
00:50:00.939 --> 00:50:05.499
400 people in the audience but very loyal fan base for five,
00:50:05.659 --> 00:50:09.699
you know, every month for five year period and Rossi and Fuka was making,
00:50:09.859 --> 00:50:15.499
like a hand-to-hand making business and making living with this small portion of wrestling audience,
00:50:15.759 --> 00:50:23.939
very loyal fan base and that Fuka at the time was training new girls without
00:50:23.939 --> 00:50:26.659
really telling Russ about it.
00:50:26.759 --> 00:50:33.139
At the time, you know, like 2004, 2005, you can actually rent space during the
00:50:33.139 --> 00:50:34.999
week, during the daytime, the Shinkiba.
00:50:35.999 --> 00:50:41.279
The Shinkiba building always have wrestling ring in there. Any independent group can use it, you know.
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:44.659
And the wrestling ring was always there. And during the day,
00:50:44.699 --> 00:50:48.639
when nobody was using, that building, you know, a manager was like,
00:50:48.779 --> 00:50:53.859
you know, if a wrestler would come in and pay $10, $15, $20, they'll let you use.
00:50:55.786 --> 00:50:58.326
During the day, like during the week for the practice. Okay.
00:50:58.726 --> 00:51:01.746
Then Fuka started training rookies.
00:51:02.146 --> 00:51:06.406
Like among that, there was like Yoshiko, young Mayu Iwatani.
00:51:06.986 --> 00:51:10.406
They were like, Fuka was training these girls. Then one day,
00:51:10.586 --> 00:51:13.126
Fuka brought Rossi over.
00:51:13.266 --> 00:51:15.446
Come over. I'm training these girls.
00:51:15.966 --> 00:51:20.066
And it's like eight girls already to debut in the ring. And Rossi scratched his head.
00:51:20.426 --> 00:51:26.506
Wait a minute. He said, are you guys, like, what are you trying to do here?
00:51:27.186 --> 00:51:31.086
None of these girls wanted to work in existing wrestling companies.
00:51:32.406 --> 00:51:37.926
They pretty much was thinking that when they were ready, there's a place to
00:51:37.926 --> 00:51:38.906
wrestle or something, right?
00:51:39.386 --> 00:51:42.806
And not concrete plans. Then Rashi looked at it. One, two, three,
00:51:42.906 --> 00:51:44.826
four, five, six, seven, eight. He said, wait a minute.
00:51:45.146 --> 00:51:52.166
This might be his mission for these girls, in order for these girls to work
00:51:52.166 --> 00:51:56.506
in the ring in a completely new environment, therefore a new company.
00:51:57.846 --> 00:52:02.906
And then there was Yuzupon, if you remember, her TV project was going,
00:52:03.246 --> 00:52:08.406
Yuzupon was a pretty famous model and also what we call a gravier idol that
00:52:08.406 --> 00:52:12.206
the magazine with bikinis and stuff that she was really,
00:52:12.966 --> 00:52:14.906
Yuzupon was pretty famous.
00:52:15.086 --> 00:52:19.706
And there was a TV project to have her as a women's wrestler and have one match
00:52:19.706 --> 00:52:24.546
and one match only you know for the TV special and Rossi was you know helping
00:52:24.546 --> 00:52:28.246
that thing and when Yuzupon showed up at the.
00:52:29.779 --> 00:52:34.839
To start practicing. She was so serious that she doesn't want to do just one match for TV.
00:52:35.259 --> 00:52:38.719
It's like, she came every, started coming over to, you know,
00:52:38.799 --> 00:52:42.359
dojo, not the dojo, but the Shinkiba every day to join their,
00:52:42.359 --> 00:52:43.479
you know, Fuka's practice.
00:52:43.779 --> 00:52:48.199
And they said, if I do something, I want to do it for right and do it for real.
00:52:48.399 --> 00:52:50.739
And they ended up becoming a wrestler for a three-year period.
00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:58.039
Therefore, Rossi had a completely just all fresh roster to start, stardom with them.
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:04.019
And it's like, The rest is, you know, the rest of the story.
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:11.319
And the beginning of stardom was really exciting because no existing wrestler is all rookie.
00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:17.479
And then Takahashi from Old Japan, they joined to coach these wrestlers.
00:53:17.739 --> 00:53:25.739
And yeah, it just happened like a snowball effect that I felt that this stardom is going to make it.
00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:31.579
Does that make sense? I mean, it seems like you're correct on that because stardom
00:53:31.579 --> 00:53:36.359
is, I mean, you have to, can't argue that it's the number one women's wrestling
00:53:36.359 --> 00:53:38.859
company in the world right now, just like All Japan was.
00:53:39.919 --> 00:53:47.519
Oh, yeah, yeah. Then Rossi is the only one that has All Japan Women's DNA in him.
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:54.239
And after, All Japan Women's Company, like we always talk about,
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:59.459
was run by four Matsunaga brothers. Kenji Matsunaga, Takashi Matsunaga,
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.979
Kuni Matsunaga, and Toshi Kuni Matsunaga, four brothers.
00:54:03.439 --> 00:54:10.619
One by one, they all passed. And none of these brothers are with us anymore.
00:54:11.259 --> 00:54:17.339
And actually, in reality, Rossi is the only one who had this decades of experience
00:54:17.339 --> 00:54:23.719
with all Japan women and basically just knows how to run a women's wrestling company.
00:54:25.819 --> 00:54:29.499
And in 21st century style and yeah
00:54:29.499 --> 00:54:32.739
that's what we're talking about and today
00:54:32.739 --> 00:54:39.759
i try to count how many women's companies are there in japan right now you know
00:54:39.759 --> 00:54:45.499
we have stardom you know then this is big you know like number one company now
00:54:45.499 --> 00:54:50.779
is 35 wrestlers in full-time roster He sold the company to Bushiro,
00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:53.019
the same owning company with New Japan.
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:57.439
It's a big game, you know, trading card, big, huge company with big capital
00:54:57.439 --> 00:55:01.539
that Rossi just became a president of it.
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:05.959
No longer be paying wrestlers from, you know, his account.
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.759
But yeah, Rossi is really happy to be.
00:55:10.721 --> 00:55:14.761
Doing the show as a creative end of it. And the business part of it is run by
00:55:14.761 --> 00:55:17.381
Bushirod now. So it's in a good position.
00:55:17.861 --> 00:55:23.041
And very big, biggest company in Japan, women's wrestling is stardom right now.
00:55:23.421 --> 00:55:29.021
And then distant second would be what? Who do you think? Sendai Girls or Tokyo
00:55:29.021 --> 00:55:31.261
Joshi? Yeah, it's hard to say.
00:55:32.041 --> 00:55:35.701
Ice Raven, Oz Academy, yeah?
00:55:36.041 --> 00:55:39.681
In Japan, yeah, I don't know.
00:55:39.681 --> 00:55:43.361
Because the crowds for each
00:55:43.361 --> 00:55:47.041
promotion are pretty different there's not too much crossover Sendai
00:55:47.041 --> 00:55:51.701
girls fans don't often go to the Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling they're all supported
00:55:51.701 --> 00:56:00.981
by very loyal fan base you have actress girls the world pro wrestling or Shinshu
00:56:00.981 --> 00:56:06.641
girls wrestling they still have the group called LLPWX,
00:56:07.601 --> 00:56:14.961
90s LLPW but today's version run by Endo, LLPWX but they don't run,
00:56:15.921 --> 00:56:22.301
that old show there's another company called PRJ that run by Borishoi,
00:56:22.501 --> 00:56:30.781
the command Borishoi that is the spin-off of JWP that exists, Sheilings Gato Move.
00:56:31.821 --> 00:56:39.141
Wars Wrestling, Deanna Reina, Tokyo Joshi The Wave, we just named about 15 different companies.
00:56:40.061 --> 00:56:49.161
Yeah. And it's good. You know, it's like the WWE should not conquer every single company.
00:56:49.341 --> 00:56:52.101
The independent company should exist. You know what I'm saying?
00:56:52.741 --> 00:57:00.481
And just like the independent scene in America that a talented young wrestler
00:57:00.481 --> 00:57:06.341
debuted elsewhere will eventually come into, you know, eventually will come to stardom now.
00:57:06.341 --> 00:57:15.921
That's how their roster got so much bigger now yeah but about 15 women's company
00:57:15.921 --> 00:57:17.821
you know still running their shows,
00:57:18.821 --> 00:57:21.741
today right now it's good
00:57:21.741 --> 00:57:24.741
though I'd say that the market is big that it doesn't
00:57:24.741 --> 00:57:28.141
have to be one just one giant company you know that's healthier
00:57:28.141 --> 00:57:36.821
as a market I did notice that there was the Hokuto put the special shows together
00:57:36.821 --> 00:57:43.561
for all the companies I forget what it was right right the beginning of the
00:57:43.561 --> 00:57:46.321
pandemic yeah yeah oh definitely us.
00:57:47.892 --> 00:57:50.652
Yeah yeah they haven't done it
00:57:50.652 --> 00:57:53.632
this year though or the last yeah so that was not
00:57:53.632 --> 00:57:56.812
like the company but the more like a project to make
00:57:56.812 --> 00:57:59.772
women's wrestling genki does that make sense yeah
00:57:59.772 --> 00:58:02.652
just like kind of because like what do you how
00:58:02.652 --> 00:58:05.572
do you translate the word genki exactly i
00:58:05.572 --> 00:58:09.332
mean high energy lively lively vigorous
00:58:09.332 --> 00:58:13.292
okay okay like yeah the whole motivation
00:58:13.292 --> 00:58:16.912
behind it was to make women's wrestling genki yeah
00:58:16.912 --> 00:58:20.012
and and bright and and yeah like
00:58:20.012 --> 00:58:23.752
you said lively and some words don't translate huh it's
00:58:23.752 --> 00:58:26.652
a special word yeah yeah but so
00:58:26.652 --> 00:58:30.212
akira hokuto as like a big senior you
00:58:30.212 --> 00:58:33.792
know almost like a luminous right alumni
00:58:33.792 --> 00:58:36.752
then of the whole industry that she
00:58:36.752 --> 00:58:39.632
was influential enough that they can you
00:58:39.632 --> 00:58:42.952
know when and if she pick up a phone a
00:58:42.952 --> 00:58:46.292
lot of group will gather yeah and it
00:58:46.292 --> 00:58:50.172
only happened maybe two shows probably yeah and
00:58:50.172 --> 00:58:53.052
it wasn't there weren't any mixed promotion yeah
00:58:53.052 --> 00:58:56.832
but the intention you know that the was a
00:58:56.832 --> 00:59:04.692
project yeah yeah and i think that the pandemic also interrupted the yeah that's
00:59:04.692 --> 00:59:14.832
kind of gaia right but it's still under you know basically still under COVID, you know.
00:59:15.312 --> 00:59:20.652
Era, I think, you know, none of these companies are running full-time schedule, you know, that.
00:59:21.872 --> 00:59:27.132
Social distance is getting easier a little bit, but you're still supposed to
00:59:27.132 --> 00:59:30.312
be wearing your mask, you know, when you're in the building,
00:59:30.532 --> 00:59:32.592
you know, for the safety precaution, I guess.
00:59:32.992 --> 00:59:39.312
And none of these companies in Japan running as many shows as back in 2019.
00:59:39.632 --> 00:59:42.952
Yeah, that's Not just wrestling, but everything. Yeah.
00:59:44.580 --> 00:59:50.160
I mean, it's hard to cover every single year of Joshi Pro Wrestling,
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.740
but I think we did a pretty good job at covering everything from,
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:56.100
let's say, 1951 up until now.
00:59:57.260 --> 01:00:03.320
I think so, yeah. Then also after these three long episodes that people might
01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:07.740
know more about it or the details of certain events or the certain wrestlers
01:00:07.740 --> 01:00:15.240
or the timeline or the company map and the wrestling company's geographic,
01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:21.600
who went where and what happened with this company and that company and this
01:00:21.600 --> 01:00:26.340
company became this company and the change of names and whatnot.
01:00:26.540 --> 01:00:28.440
And we can always answer more questions.
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:35.260
Yeah, this is the foundation. I think with this three episodes.
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.400
All the way from 1948 all the way to 2020, too
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.640
and i hope we did okay job
01:00:42.640 --> 01:00:45.540
on this yeah feel free to reach out and
01:00:45.540 --> 01:00:48.440
ask questions if we you know of course we had to
01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:51.320
gloss over some aspects of or some
01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:54.240
years some there are
01:00:54.240 --> 01:00:57.040
certain things that we can we'll go over in
01:00:57.040 --> 01:01:00.240
detail down the road in the future when we focus on
01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:03.280
you know yeah yeah we might have left out something big
01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:06.660
yeah you know we'll get to everything there's
01:01:06.660 --> 01:01:09.800
lots there are lots of topics unique or
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.000
distinct topics to talk about and also we provided
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:17.140
the enough years and dates and names that some
01:01:17.140 --> 01:01:23.020
serious wrestling fans out there younger than we are they please would start
01:01:23.020 --> 01:01:29.500
their own research from this point on there's a lot to research too so yeah
01:01:29.500 --> 01:01:33.080
it's a lot out there yeah yeah no no it's our role.
01:01:34.623 --> 01:01:39.003
To head this down to wrestling historian and researching people.
01:01:39.283 --> 01:01:41.803
Yeah, I really hope that.
01:01:42.343 --> 01:01:46.563
Well, if people have questions, where can they reach out to you directly, Fumi?
01:01:47.063 --> 01:01:54.983
Okay, at Fumihiko Dayo F-U-M-I-H-I-K-O D-A-Y-O Fumihiko Dayo on Twitter or Fumisaito
01:01:54.983 --> 01:01:59.623
on Facebook and please message me first or friendly right away.
01:02:00.163 --> 01:02:04.143
And I'm at Justin M. Nipperke and IPPER on Twitter.
01:02:04.543 --> 01:02:08.263
If you have questions, comments, we'll follow up on the next episode.
01:02:08.463 --> 01:02:13.723
So I guess that's it for now. That's the end of our history of pro wrestling,
01:02:14.463 --> 01:02:19.903
in Japan, women's pro wrestling in Japan series, Jojo Pro Wrestling. What should we do next?
01:02:20.823 --> 01:02:24.883
Well, if anybody has any ideas. Next week, yeah. But otherwise,
01:02:25.103 --> 01:02:27.783
we'll come at you with a surprise. Yeah, we'll be doing this every week.
01:02:28.463 --> 01:02:30.843
And until then, so long from Tokyo.
01:02:32.240 --> 01:02:50.960
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