AEW DYNAMITE POST-SHOW (10/21): Keller & Halley discuss Dragunov debut, Davis & Doyle decimating Bucks, Shafir stepping up to Mercedes, more

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.540 --> 00:00:03.020
You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership
2
00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:05.360
through your Apple account and the Apple Podcast app and
3
00:00:05.379 --> 00:00:08.880
also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP
4
00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.619
membership with full access to archives, an ad-free website, and
5
00:00:12.699 --> 00:00:16.589
customizable podcast feeds that are compatible with the Apple Podcast
6
00:00:16.769 --> 00:00:20.190
app and many iOS and Android apps, along with streaming
7
00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:25.010
ability right from our ad-free mobile site, go to pwtorch.com
8
00:00:25.429 --> 00:00:30.530
slash govip. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. That'll give you all
9
00:00:30.550 --> 00:00:33.049
the details on everything you're missing out on by not
10
00:00:33.170 --> 00:00:36.649
being a VIP member. The whole array of VIP exclusive
11
00:00:36.670 --> 00:00:41.200
podcasts like the Wade Keller News Bulletins, our post pay-per-view roundtables,
12
00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:43.820
the fix that I host with Todd Martin, everything with
13
00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:46.060
Rich and Wade, and an array of other shows with
14
00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:49.420
different hosts and different themes, along with unlocking our archives
15
00:00:49.460 --> 00:00:53.399
dating back nearly four decades. Nearly 2,000 Pro Wrestling Torch
16
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.929
weekly newsletters. Over two decades of podcasts on demand dating
17
00:00:56.969 --> 00:01:00.310
back to the mid-2000s, starting with pay-per-view roundtables, hundreds of
18
00:01:00.450 --> 00:01:03.829
fascinating retro radio shows, including many that I hosted in
19
00:01:03.850 --> 00:01:07.780
the 1990s, and an ad-free website, exclusive content on that
20
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:12.439
website only for VIP members, written and audio, and a lightning-fast, smooth,
21
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.980
ad-free VIP mobile site for all of our content. Don't
22
00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.519
miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a
23
00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:25.670
VIP membership. pwtorch.com slash govip. Go all the way. Go VIP. pwtorch.com
24
00:01:25.890 --> 00:01:39.189
slash govip. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the
25
00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:41.390
Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.
26
00:01:41.790 --> 00:01:44.890
It's time to talk this week's AEW Dynamite.
27
00:01:48.829 --> 00:01:50.689
Art Taylor, we got blood and guts set up. We'll
28
00:01:50.709 --> 00:01:52.530
talk about that, but let's begin with the main event
29
00:01:52.609 --> 00:01:55.980
of tonight's Dynamite. Ilya Dragunov making his debut in the
30
00:01:56.019 --> 00:02:01.359
main event against Speedball Mike Bailey. AW presented it as
31
00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.459
a big signing. They presented Dragunov as a big deal.
32
00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:08.580
They had a nice match, went, I don't know, 17
33
00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:10.750
minutes or something like that. What'd you think of the
34
00:02:10.770 --> 00:02:13.120
overall presentation of Dragunov and how they framed him?
35
00:02:13.990 --> 00:02:16.449
Yeah, I mean, it presented him as a huge star.
36
00:02:17.169 --> 00:02:18.270
I mean, you knew what you were going to get
37
00:02:18.289 --> 00:02:19.469
from the match. I mean, I think it would be
38
00:02:19.509 --> 00:02:21.370
impossible for those two to probably put on a bad
39
00:02:21.409 --> 00:02:24.379
match together. But yeah, no, I mean, they presented him
40
00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.199
as a big deal and a big star. He comes
41
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:31.319
off as it. He looks it. I guess my question is, though,
42
00:02:32.419 --> 00:02:34.479
whenever they kind of bring these guys in and they
43
00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:36.580
present them as a big deal, I mean, everyone there
44
00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:38.370
can wrestle. It's kind of like, what are you going
45
00:02:38.379 --> 00:02:40.990
to do over the next three to six months now
46
00:02:41.009 --> 00:02:44.539
to kind of separate yourself from everyone else who can wrestle.
47
00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:49.319
I feel like sometimes with AEW, you know, everyone can wrestle.
48
00:02:49.340 --> 00:02:51.000
Sometimes these guys will come in and kind of get
49
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.979
lost in the crowd. Sometimes they come in hot for
50
00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.219
a few months and then, you know, see him for
51
00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:57.870
a week and then they get a couple of matches
52
00:02:57.930 --> 00:03:01.650
on collision. Then they're in like a random TNT title match.
53
00:03:01.889 --> 00:03:05.629
So it's kind of like, but I, you know, I, I,
54
00:03:05.689 --> 00:03:07.550
I have faith that he's, he's, he's one of the
55
00:03:07.610 --> 00:03:09.289
ones that can, you know, maybe get over that hump.
56
00:03:10.460 --> 00:03:13.270
So, I thought you were going to say, but I'll
57
00:03:13.289 --> 00:03:16.949
add to it, Dragunov was, by definition, and this is
58
00:03:16.990 --> 00:03:19.270
not a dig, a mid-carder in WWE. He wasn't a
59
00:03:19.289 --> 00:03:23.050
pay-per-view main event guy. Mid-card in a broad term. Different
60
00:03:23.069 --> 00:03:25.229
people think mid-card is a more derisive term than I
61
00:03:25.250 --> 00:03:27.669
think it is, but he was defending and fighting for
62
00:03:27.710 --> 00:03:30.849
secondary titles. He wasn't a top guy feuding with top,
63
00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:34.449
top people in the main event realm. AEW brings him in,
64
00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:36.879
they put him in the main event, and they have
65
00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:40.810
him go toe-to-toe with A wrestler I like, I appreciate.
66
00:03:40.870 --> 00:03:44.189
Speedball Mike Bailey. Takes 16, 17 minutes back and forth
67
00:03:44.250 --> 00:03:48.740
action to beat him. I get why they put him
68
00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:51.879
against him. And I understand wanting to give them a
69
00:03:52.099 --> 00:03:53.419
time to show off what they do. That is the
70
00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:55.159
AW brand. We talk about it all the time. That's
71
00:03:55.180 --> 00:03:57.219
what AW does. If you can wrestle, we're going to
72
00:03:57.259 --> 00:03:59.159
give you 15 minutes, give or take, to do it.
73
00:03:59.650 --> 00:04:04.969
And I defend in kind of AW's way of presenting
74
00:04:05.050 --> 00:04:05.990
the product that.
75
00:04:07.449 --> 00:04:09.629
Even a wrestler who is destined to win a match
76
00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.919
against someone who's anywhere near him, it takes a while.
77
00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:18.839
Unless it's a jobber against Swerve, like tonight. And so,
78
00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:22.779
this has been a complaint, so to speak, going back
79
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.699
to Cody Rhodes taking forever to beat QT Marshall or whatever. So,
80
00:04:26.139 --> 00:04:30.110
I'm not saying it's new, but... they're making a really
81
00:04:30.149 --> 00:04:32.939
big deal out of signing somebody from WWE, who was
82
00:04:32.980 --> 00:04:34.600
a mid-quarter. They put them in a main event, build
83
00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:36.040
them up a lot. It takes them a long time
84
00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:39.139
to beat Speedball, who is an AEW mid-quarter, but I
85
00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.160
think they aspire for him to be more than that.
86
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:48.180
So two things. One, it can hurt Dragunov. Yes, they
87
00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:49.420
give him plenty of time to show what he can do,
88
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:51.980
and that's an absolute positive on one side of the ledger,
89
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.399
but it took him a long time to beat somebody
90
00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:56.750
who isn't a main eventer, even though he's mixing it
91
00:04:56.810 --> 00:04:59.649
up with Will Ospreay a little bit on camera. So
92
00:05:00.819 --> 00:05:02.279
you have that working against you, but then you have
93
00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.500
from the AW brand standpoint, woohoo, we got a WWE
94
00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:07.399
mid Carter cast off again, and we're going to promote
95
00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:10.379
him as a big deal. And, and wow, we're so
96
00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:12.160
glad to have him. That's the most impressive debut since
97
00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:15.199
Tony Schiavone. So none of this is like a huge deal.
98
00:05:15.230 --> 00:05:17.009
Cause obviously the AW fan base is going to love that.
99
00:05:17.029 --> 00:05:19.750
They signed him. They're smart and smart enough to understand
100
00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:23.089
what he brings. And I don't think they're going to
101
00:05:23.110 --> 00:05:25.430
be hung up on the fact that he wasn't a
102
00:05:25.449 --> 00:05:29.860
main eventer in WWE, but I still think there's, There's
103
00:05:29.899 --> 00:05:34.490
something to be said for looking at a different approach,
104
00:05:34.790 --> 00:05:38.970
which is bring a Dragunov in and kind of, and
105
00:05:39.009 --> 00:05:40.930
I'm not, I think there's a fair corner argument I
106
00:05:40.970 --> 00:05:42.410
can make it, but there's something to be said for
107
00:05:42.449 --> 00:05:46.920
considering the other approach, which would be Dragunov has to
108
00:05:46.939 --> 00:05:52.560
come in and prove himself. Like, don't celebrate him in
109
00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:54.019
the way that they did, which by the way, they
110
00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:55.600
gave him more attention than they gave him Will Ospreay
111
00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:57.360
since he won the world title, you know, in terms
112
00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.949
of just promotional build and hype and excitement. Um, so
113
00:06:01.790 --> 00:06:04.269
I like, to me, there's something about, Hey, he's had
114
00:06:04.310 --> 00:06:08.379
success elsewhere, but he's got to prove himself and speedball
115
00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:09.819
is a good starting point. So I don't know. I
116
00:06:09.819 --> 00:06:13.100
mean like great match people who just want good wrestlers
117
00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:14.920
getting a chance to show what they do. I get,
118
00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:17.220
there's a reason to be excited. He signed the vignette.
119
00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:19.149
They aired with him, you know, I'm in the right place.
120
00:06:19.509 --> 00:06:21.870
This is a place for me. I'm kind of a
121
00:06:22.009 --> 00:06:26.569
meta modern AW realm level. I get it. but there's
122
00:06:26.610 --> 00:06:28.870
still traits here that worry me a little bit about
123
00:06:28.889 --> 00:06:31.250
what it says about the brand and also a little
124
00:06:31.269 --> 00:06:33.430
bit about rushing him to the top, but having him
125
00:06:33.470 --> 00:06:35.170
take so long to beat Speedball. Your thoughts on that?
126
00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:40.060
Yeah, no, I mean, I agree basically what most of
127
00:06:40.100 --> 00:06:42.699
what you're saying there in terms of like, you know,
128
00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:45.420
he is going to have to come in and prove
129
00:06:45.459 --> 00:06:49.759
himself a little bit, you know, kind of, like I
130
00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:52.300
said before, like everyone can wrestle, but do you have
131
00:06:52.339 --> 00:06:55.250
that little extra? Like, do you have that extra little
132
00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:57.610
that's going to make you Like how Swerve came in.
133
00:06:57.699 --> 00:06:59.399
You know what I mean? Swerve came in, was kind
134
00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:03.910
of the same mid-cotter in WWE. Kind of came in
135
00:07:04.129 --> 00:07:05.990
and he kind of just had that little extra something,
136
00:07:06.009 --> 00:07:07.709
that little extra star power. You know what I mean?
137
00:07:07.730 --> 00:07:09.829
That kind of helped them. You know, they came in
138
00:07:09.850 --> 00:07:12.160
and they put him with, I forget who was he
139
00:07:12.189 --> 00:07:16.439
tagging with. I'm blanking.
140
00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:19.379
Who was tagging with whom?
141
00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:21.779
Who was Swerve tagging with when he came in?
142
00:07:23.139 --> 00:07:23.660
Oh, initially?
143
00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:27.860
Yeah. Yeah. he's in like a cult now or something.
144
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.060
What was his name?
145
00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:30.459
I'm blanking too.
146
00:07:30.699 --> 00:07:31.730
I'm totally blanking.
147
00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:34.129
Chad, help us out. I'm sure the chat will just,
148
00:07:34.230 --> 00:07:35.470
it'll come back to them.
149
00:07:35.490 --> 00:07:36.930
Keith Lee. Thank you. Yes.
150
00:07:37.490 --> 00:07:40.509
Oh my God. Yeah. I would not have gotten that.
151
00:07:40.529 --> 00:07:42.290
I completely forgot about that, but yeah.
152
00:07:42.790 --> 00:07:44.149
Like they had, you know, they had him come in.
153
00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:45.990
He tagged with Keith Lee for a while, kind of
154
00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.410
built himself up. You know, we kind of got to build,
155
00:07:48.430 --> 00:07:50.449
you know, build his character up a little bit. It
156
00:07:50.490 --> 00:07:52.129
took a little bit of time. You know what I mean?
157
00:07:52.149 --> 00:07:54.879
To kind of turn swerve into swerve what he is now.
158
00:07:56.379 --> 00:07:58.449
So I think if, if I think that's kind of
159
00:07:58.470 --> 00:07:59.730
what you have to do with these guys who are
160
00:07:59.769 --> 00:08:01.529
coming in, it's not going to happen right away. It's
161
00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:03.350
going to take a little bit of time to, to,
162
00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:06.810
you know, have these guys get their footing and they're
163
00:08:06.829 --> 00:08:08.250
going to put on great matches. Like you can put
164
00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:10.279
them on Wednesday nights, every Wednesday, and he's going to
165
00:08:10.300 --> 00:08:13.420
put on a great match, but is it, you know,
166
00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.839
you're investing in these guys, you're bringing these guys in.
167
00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:17.899
So what are you going to do with them now?
168
00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:19.240
I guess. Yeah.
169
00:08:19.579 --> 00:08:22.660
Yeah. A couple of chat comments along these lines, Mark Paschetti.
170
00:08:23.649 --> 00:08:26.230
It says Dragunov is where he was meant to be.
171
00:08:27.129 --> 00:08:30.389
Derek Mitchell posted this even before we started the show
172
00:08:30.410 --> 00:08:33.250
while he was waiting. He goes, super chat from Derek.
173
00:08:33.309 --> 00:08:34.850
Thank you for your super chat. King of the super
174
00:08:34.870 --> 00:08:36.889
chats here on the show, Derek. Much, much appreciated. He goes,
175
00:08:36.909 --> 00:08:39.710
Ilya has a vignette talking about being an AW. When
176
00:08:39.730 --> 00:08:42.450
he's featured in the main event versus Speedball, he already
177
00:08:42.470 --> 00:08:46.240
feels more important than the champ. He adds in another
178
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.899
super chat, Will feels like another guy on the roster
179
00:08:49.340 --> 00:08:53.059
instead of the central figure in the promotion. Now, mid-show...
180
00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:56.509
I made a post during commercial break in the VIP
181
00:08:56.549 --> 00:09:00.809
forum about this and said that, you know, this is
182
00:09:00.850 --> 00:09:03.149
an example of what I'm talking about where people go,
183
00:09:03.169 --> 00:09:05.230
I don't understand. Will's a champion. He's getting to show
184
00:09:05.269 --> 00:09:06.879
what he does. He's in pay-per-view made events. What do
185
00:09:06.889 --> 00:09:10.240
you mean, Wade, when you say they're not featuring him enough?
186
00:09:10.340 --> 00:09:13.700
And to me, they made Ilya feel like a bigger
187
00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.840
deal than Will Ospreay this week. Now, Will is, he's
188
00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:18.740
the chair in the corner you always had and you
189
00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:20.850
love it, but now we got this new couch. We're
190
00:09:20.870 --> 00:09:23.090
all excited about this or, you know, whatever. Like I
191
00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:26.470
understand shiny new toy syndrome, um, is part of it.
192
00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:28.559
And the novelty is part of it. But to me,
193
00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:31.100
and in the VIP post, I said, they need to
194
00:09:31.419 --> 00:09:33.320
watch what David Crockett did in the late eighties when
195
00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:35.960
dusty roads is going to be on NWA worldwide wrestling.
196
00:09:36.220 --> 00:09:37.559
Oh my God, dusty roads are going to be here.
197
00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:39.279
Now he was a book. Dusty was a booker and
198
00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:40.809
he was a self promoter. And at that time, the,
199
00:09:41.169 --> 00:09:44.809
the hardcore fans despise dusty. Um, there's been a very
200
00:09:45.110 --> 00:09:47.990
good turnaround in terms of his reputation among, uh, ardent
201
00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:51.870
fans over the decades and, and well-earned, um, Or how
202
00:09:52.029 --> 00:09:55.059
Nitro promoted a Goldberg appearance. Or how Jim Ross talked
203
00:09:55.100 --> 00:09:57.019
about Stone Cold's going to be on the show tonight.
204
00:09:57.570 --> 00:09:59.330
You don't get that. Will just happens to have the
205
00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:02.210
most important title. happens to main event, but he's such
206
00:10:02.250 --> 00:10:05.509
a guy in a tag match that's he happens to
207
00:10:05.529 --> 00:10:07.789
have the number one belt, but he's in a tag
208
00:10:07.830 --> 00:10:11.889
match where it's more about Adam Copeland than him, and
209
00:10:11.909 --> 00:10:14.250
it accomplished a goal, which, you know, Zach Barber will
210
00:10:14.269 --> 00:10:16.110
point out, hey, what more do you want? Wait, they
211
00:10:16.129 --> 00:10:18.169
set up a world title match with Kyle Fletcher, and yeah,
212
00:10:18.190 --> 00:10:21.470
they did a good job, but If Will Ospreay's on
213
00:10:21.490 --> 00:10:26.600
the show, don't call... I don't even like calling Dragunov
214
00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:28.879
and Speedball the main event. I would just say later
215
00:10:28.909 --> 00:10:30.799
on the show, Ilya's going to make his debut. It's
216
00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:32.720
later on the show. But first, we have a special
217
00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:35.759
treat for you fans. Will Ospreay, our world champion, is
218
00:10:36.019 --> 00:10:38.220
in a match. And it's coming up in this hour.
219
00:10:38.539 --> 00:10:41.720
And he's teaming with a legendary, Adam Copeland, who just
220
00:10:41.779 --> 00:10:44.899
announced last week. He's down to the last year, roughly,
221
00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:48.500
of his career. And it's against two... strong members of
222
00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.179
the Don Callis family but Will Ospreay a world champion
223
00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:53.899
is going to be here send that signal to the
224
00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:56.669
fan base that it's a big deal I know Tony
225
00:10:56.690 --> 00:10:59.149
Khan thinks everybody who watches our show knows how good
226
00:10:59.169 --> 00:11:00.710
Will is I'm on social media all the time they
227
00:11:00.750 --> 00:11:03.049
love him we don't want to force our opinion on
228
00:11:03.110 --> 00:11:06.049
people we don't want to be pushy but if you
229
00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:08.669
want to grow you got to frame your world champion
230
00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:12.460
as a huge deal and if you think that like
231
00:11:12.529 --> 00:11:14.690
how are they going to do it well just do
232
00:11:14.730 --> 00:11:17.029
what they did for dragon off tonight and do it
233
00:11:17.049 --> 00:11:21.149
for will every week, you know, for, for, and so, yeah,
234
00:11:21.190 --> 00:11:21.629
go ahead.
235
00:11:21.669 --> 00:11:23.909
And I, you know, AWW doesn't do it either, but
236
00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.129
like starting the show at will, you know what I mean?
237
00:11:26.149 --> 00:11:28.220
Starting the show with your world champion, set the tone
238
00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:30.960
for the night. Like the, the, you know, I, I
239
00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.700
feel like they did that with MJF, like MJF would
240
00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:37.019
come out. That you knew that you knew that episode
241
00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.789
was going to revolve around MJF. It was going to
242
00:11:39.809 --> 00:11:41.690
bookend the show. You know, MJF was going to be
243
00:11:41.710 --> 00:11:44.149
at the beginning. He was bookending everything. He was going
244
00:11:44.169 --> 00:11:48.460
to have a promo. That was important. So I just
245
00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:51.820
don't feel like that. I agree with you. They're just
246
00:11:51.860 --> 00:11:54.000
not doing that with Will. And I mean, and I think,
247
00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:58.799
you know, Ospreay has the potential to be a mega star.
248
00:11:58.909 --> 00:12:01.230
You know what I mean? He's got, he has everything
249
00:12:01.269 --> 00:12:03.029
that you need. I mean, he's a five tool guy.
250
00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:07.029
And yeah, they're just not, they're just not using them
251
00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:09.350
like they should. I mean, he's a, you know, he's Otani.
252
00:12:09.669 --> 00:12:12.649
He can pitch and hit, you know, you got to
253
00:12:12.690 --> 00:12:15.720
feature that guy. That's, you know, that's, it's, he's, he's,
254
00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:17.059
he's a rare, it's a rare breed.
255
00:12:19.100 --> 00:12:22.139
Did you know that you can enjoy commercial free versions
256
00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:24.600
of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PW
257
00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.669
torch daily casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search
258
00:12:28.809 --> 00:12:32.590
PW torch and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You
259
00:12:32.610 --> 00:12:34.490
get a seven day free trial, by the way, to
260
00:12:34.509 --> 00:12:35.929
kick the tires a bit and see if you like
261
00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:38.559
the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you
262
00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:41.360
can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows, like
263
00:12:41.379 --> 00:12:43.720
the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
264
00:12:44.059 --> 00:12:47.100
our Flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup. Again,
265
00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:51.110
all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
266
00:12:51.129 --> 00:12:54.529
you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything
267
00:12:54.549 --> 00:12:56.250
with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that
268
00:12:56.289 --> 00:12:59.029
I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin,
269
00:12:59.169 --> 00:13:03.809
Post Pay-Per-View Roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts
270
00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:06.840
with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.
271
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.419
go to Patreon and search PW torch and subscribe and
272
00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:14.480
sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
273
00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:18.039
Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven
274
00:13:18.059 --> 00:13:24.720
day free trial. I, I, my, my preference would have
275
00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.879
been to save that main, to, to have Will Ospreay
276
00:13:28.899 --> 00:13:30.580
in the main event. Cause he's your world champion and
277
00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.860
you're building up a world title match with Kyle Fletcher.
278
00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.679
Copeland's coming off a huge announcement last week about his
279
00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:39.610
last year. Um, To me, that's the main event. And
280
00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:42.490
you headline with that and you lead with Dragunov or
281
00:13:42.570 --> 00:13:45.129
you advertise Dragunov and lead like the second hour with it.
282
00:13:45.429 --> 00:13:48.960
You make a big deal out of it. But yeah,
283
00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.940
just it's like he's I'm super glad he's in A.W.
284
00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:54.419
and I loved his work and I'm a big fan
285
00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:55.899
of his work. This is this is not a dig
286
00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.889
on him at all. This is trying to preserve. What
287
00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:02.769
I believe should be or preserves the wrong word to promote,
288
00:14:02.830 --> 00:14:06.580
to advocate for. protecting your brand aw you got to
289
00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:08.460
earn main events here you don't get to be a
290
00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:10.620
mid carter from w who had some good matches that
291
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.340
our fan base online loved and praised and we're so
292
00:14:13.379 --> 00:14:16.690
glad to have his his his talents here yeah but
293
00:14:16.850 --> 00:14:18.330
make it seem like he's kind of got to earn
294
00:14:18.350 --> 00:14:20.409
his place not that he's just instantly a main eventer
295
00:14:20.470 --> 00:14:23.070
so i know that i know tony khan just is
296
00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.549
online and the people are excited there tony's excited so
297
00:14:25.570 --> 00:14:27.850
let's main event with it it's his first appearance They
298
00:14:27.889 --> 00:14:29.549
could have done worse. Like, it could have been on
299
00:14:29.570 --> 00:14:31.370
the other side. They just had him come out without fanfare,
300
00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:32.909
and I'd be way more critical of that. I do
301
00:14:32.929 --> 00:14:35.289
want to make clear, this isn't like a disaster, but
302
00:14:35.340 --> 00:14:38.039
it's illustrative of something that I advocate for, and I
303
00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.960
think this was a good chance to make that point.
304
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:43.759
I love Zach Barber going, hey, wow, I'm out here
305
00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:44.419
catching strays.
306
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:47.500
Yeah, yeah.
307
00:14:48.019 --> 00:14:50.779
Taylor, before I go, let me throw up Zach's comment.
308
00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:52.080
I don't know if he made this before or after
309
00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:54.019
I made the comment, because I hadn't seen this, but
310
00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:56.929
he goes, Wade, it's a wrestling forward company. The undefeated
311
00:14:57.049 --> 00:14:59.460
49ers barely beat the lowly commanders Monday night when they
312
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:03.019
should have rolled them. Dragunov not squashing speedball isn't a
313
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:04.399
big deal. So I don't know if he said that
314
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:06.220
before or after I said, of course, he's going to
315
00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:08.440
run in and defend this, but he did. Okay, Taylor,
316
00:15:08.539 --> 00:15:08.789
over to you.
317
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:10.639
I was going to say too, and especially when you
318
00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:12.590
bring a guy in like that and you start him
319
00:15:12.610 --> 00:15:14.629
in the main event, you're setting the bar so high.
320
00:15:14.710 --> 00:15:16.789
Like he's not going to be, he's not a main
321
00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:18.570
event guy right now. You know what I mean? Like
322
00:15:18.610 --> 00:15:20.690
the way, even the way that you can, we can
323
00:15:20.830 --> 00:15:22.509
kind of see the way the stories are going right now.
324
00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:24.549
They're not just going to drop Dragunov now in the
325
00:15:24.590 --> 00:15:26.960
middle of a world title game. you know, feud with,
326
00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:30.000
with Ospreay. So now you're, you're setting it up as
327
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:33.419
this guy's a main eventer. Now, you know, if next
328
00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:36.500
week he's on collision and a third match on collision,
329
00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.960
it's like, okay, I thought this guy was a big deal.
330
00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:40.679
Now he's not even on the show next week. Or,
331
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.659
you know, if he's in the second match on, on
332
00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.720
dynamite next week, it's kind of like, okay, I, you know,
333
00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:48.679
I guess, I guess he's not a big deal as
334
00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.700
big of a deal as I thought.
335
00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:52.679
I also think if you're going to put speed ball,
336
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:54.720
is this his first, is this speed balls first singles
337
00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:58.750
main event? on dynamite proper i mean i don't know
338
00:15:58.929 --> 00:16:00.269
i don't i'm not sure i.
339
00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:03.980
Would probably say i would probably say no i would
340
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:06.559
i would imagine he's maybe had one at least one
341
00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:08.919
not that i can think of at the top of.
342
00:16:08.899 --> 00:16:11.440
My head our live research team in the chat maybe
343
00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:13.340
can look this up for us i know i'm genuinely
344
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.580
curious to me if you're gonna put speedball in a
345
00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.549
singles match main event speedball is has been well aspirated
346
00:16:19.570 --> 00:16:21.509
little buddy i mean it's just he's you know he's
347
00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:25.279
not like I don't want to make too much out
348
00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:29.779
of this. Again, it's illustrative of if you're going to
349
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.970
do this, give us some promos. Give us a video package.
350
00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:35.590
Explain why this is his first opponent. What does Speedball
351
00:16:35.629 --> 00:16:38.629
want to prove? Speedball sees himself as a gatekeeper to
352
00:16:38.669 --> 00:16:42.149
the main event. Tell that story. Speedball says, hey, Dragunov
353
00:16:42.210 --> 00:16:46.299
is coming in with big expectations. I have big expectations.
354
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.360
I've made it clear. I want to go after the
355
00:16:48.379 --> 00:16:53.100
world champ. That's an aspiration I have. And I see
356
00:16:53.139 --> 00:16:58.519
no better way to test my credentials than this hot
357
00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:02.320
new signing who also aspired. Like there's a story to
358
00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:04.160
tell there, give more backstory, but I sort of felt
359
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.349
it just defaulted on, it's going to be great work
360
00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:09.549
because these two guys are really good workers and our
361
00:17:09.589 --> 00:17:11.950
audience knows that. And I, from day one with Dynamite,
362
00:17:12.250 --> 00:17:14.390
I've advocated and aspired for them to do more than that.
363
00:17:15.410 --> 00:17:19.089
Yeah, no, I agree totally. Okay.
364
00:17:19.349 --> 00:17:22.819
A couple other chat comments here. DCW says, even though
365
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:27.839
Will is the champion, he felt less important tonight. And
366
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:31.339
Darrell says, Speedball and Dragunov shouldn't have been the main event,
367
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:32.099
but it was a nice match.
368
00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:32.900
100%.
369
00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:37.410
It was definitely a nice match. That is the baseline,
370
00:17:37.609 --> 00:17:39.869
of course. I'm not taking that away from them. If
371
00:17:39.890 --> 00:17:42.269
it wasn't, we would have talked about that. Ducky D
372
00:17:42.289 --> 00:17:43.950
in the chat says, I always looked at Dragunov as
373
00:17:44.009 --> 00:17:48.509
a you-can't-kill-me guy, as opposed to the I'm-gonna-kill-you guy, at
374
00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:52.769
least from his NXT UK stuff. It's a good portal
375
00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:57.410
into another topic on him, Taylor, which is what should
376
00:17:57.650 --> 00:18:05.369
Dragunov's persona in AWB to avoid what you talked about earlier,
377
00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:07.930
which is big deal at the beginning, but then he
378
00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:09.690
just kind of merges into the speed of traffic and
379
00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:11.950
he's just another guy. We thought Ricochet would have that problem.
380
00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:16.769
He distinguished himself with kind of a gutsy reinvention of
381
00:18:16.809 --> 00:18:18.930
his persona that I think has stuck and it's worked.
382
00:18:18.970 --> 00:18:22.190
He's upper mid card, but he mixes with the main eventers,
383
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:25.240
and that's fine. But he's earned his keep as a character,
384
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:30.019
not just a guy doing more spots. What would you
385
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.420
do with Dragunov, taking into account what Ducky D brought up,
386
00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:36.599
which is he is kind of a you-can't-kill-me, not I'm-going-to-kill-you,
387
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.029
and I think that's a good contrast.
388
00:18:38.769 --> 00:18:44.049
Yeah, so with Dragunov, I don't watch WWE as consistently
389
00:18:44.230 --> 00:18:47.690
over the last few years as I used to. I
390
00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.240
saw some of his matches in WWE... I don't know
391
00:18:50.289 --> 00:18:52.829
much of his background before that. Obviously, I know the name.
392
00:18:53.230 --> 00:18:54.930
You're a great person to talk about this then.
393
00:18:55.269 --> 00:18:58.410
Yeah. So when I first saw the vignette, like when
394
00:18:58.430 --> 00:19:01.390
they started doing the vignettes, I got a little bit
395
00:19:01.430 --> 00:19:05.190
of like the really tailored suits and the tats and
396
00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:06.880
like the watches. I kind of got like a little
397
00:19:06.910 --> 00:19:09.000
bit of like a McGregor vibe from him. You know
398
00:19:09.019 --> 00:19:09.519
what I mean?
399
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:10.170
Yeah, I get it.
400
00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.920
Totally get it. So I think if you kind of
401
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:17.710
go towards that, like the cocky bravado vibe, Um, I
402
00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:19.849
even like the little symphony thing he does. You know
403
00:19:19.869 --> 00:19:22.930
what I mean? I think that's cool. Um, I think
404
00:19:23.069 --> 00:19:24.910
if you could, I kind of like the whole kind
405
00:19:24.950 --> 00:19:29.019
of McGregor tone of it. It was like cocky bravado. Um,
406
00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:31.539
like I'm the man, like, you know what I mean?
407
00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:32.900
Just kind of like that.
408
00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:37.259
Um, so this, and this is great because you don't
409
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.019
have this, you didn't watch NXT UK. You weren't watching
410
00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.529
everything he did in WWE. So you, you're a great
411
00:19:42.569 --> 00:19:44.920
person to ask about this, not to say based on,
412
00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:48.009
watching everything he's done, here's what they should accentuate. You're
413
00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:51.900
coming at it from, I watch everything. AEW I've watched
414
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.220
the build for him I have a you know general
415
00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:59.359
familiarity with him they haven't clearly defined him you're kind
416
00:19:59.380 --> 00:20:03.599
of giving being you are having to extrapolate an impression
417
00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.259
from what they've done but I don't sense that I
418
00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:08.730
think you are what a lot of AEW fans are
419
00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:11.359
which is heard good things know he's a good worker
420
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.490
what why am i rooting for or against him what's
421
00:20:15.529 --> 00:20:19.609
his journey where what what about him i am i
422
00:20:19.630 --> 00:20:22.069
going to identify with with a whole array of wrestlers
423
00:20:22.109 --> 00:20:25.250
to choose from i don't watch wrestling just to see
424
00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:29.250
stars stack up over 15 or 20 minutes um and
425
00:20:29.569 --> 00:20:31.539
star ratings stack up with a bunch of cool moves
426
00:20:31.579 --> 00:20:34.279
and drama That's a baseline for what makes AW stand out.
427
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.180
But what really gets me to the TV set every
428
00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:39.170
Wednesday and Saturday night and invested in talking about, thinking about,
429
00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:43.950
podcasting about, writing about this product is the personality. What
430
00:20:44.109 --> 00:20:46.670
is it about him? Sometimes you show, not tell. I
431
00:20:46.710 --> 00:20:49.069
get that. And I think he showed aspects that you're
432
00:20:49.130 --> 00:20:51.529
talking about, Taylor. The little bit of Conor McGregor thing.
433
00:20:51.549 --> 00:20:52.410
There's a symphony thing.
434
00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:53.630
Yeah.
435
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.079
It's a beginning, but I don't want them to think
436
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:58.460
they're 85% of the way there. I think they're 15
437
00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:00.200
or 20% of the way there. I don't want them
438
00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:04.440
to keep putting thought into this. So the average viewer goes, OK,
439
00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.640
this is a guy I can get behind because X, Y, Z.
440
00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:11.160
I think he's cool. I like his personality. I like
441
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.740
his drive. Or I root for people like him because
442
00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:18.930
I'm learning more about him. And again, it's just there's
443
00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:22.750
assumed knowledge with AW bringing people in sometimes, more often
444
00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:26.569
than not. And so, you know, you're an example of going, hey,
445
00:21:27.269 --> 00:21:29.869
I'm intrigued. But tell me more. Show me more of
446
00:21:29.930 --> 00:21:31.029
what makes him who he is.
447
00:21:31.549 --> 00:21:33.509
Yeah. Cause I mean, definitely has the look like he's
448
00:21:33.549 --> 00:21:35.549
definitely someone you, you stop and.
449
00:21:35.490 --> 00:21:36.170
Go, who is that?
450
00:21:36.349 --> 00:21:39.970
You know what I mean? Like, um, yeah. So, I mean,
451
00:21:39.990 --> 00:21:41.809
it's definitely, like you said, it's definitely something there. It's just,
452
00:21:41.829 --> 00:21:45.049
are they going to invest the time to, is he
453
00:21:45.069 --> 00:21:48.190
just going to kind of fall to the wayside as just, Hey,
454
00:21:48.210 --> 00:21:49.660
you can wrestle, but what, what kind of, what else
455
00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:51.059
does he have? Yup.
456
00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:55.720
Uh, by the way, um, Adam kid says, yes. Great
457
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.700
comparison by Taylor. Uh, Derek Mitchell says, agreed. Conor McGregor
458
00:21:59.740 --> 00:22:03.230
was more sports entertainer than UFC fighter. I can see Conor, uh,
459
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.400
Conor and Ilya comparison. If that's not what Tony Khan wants,
460
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:12.670
you want to be cognizant of how he's coming across. Um,
461
00:22:12.930 --> 00:22:15.190
for sure. Uh, Pickens in the chat says, Tony Khan
462
00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:17.970
couldn't license some B-roll of Dragunov and Speedball from when
463
00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:19.990
they faced each other before. I feel that may have
464
00:22:20.009 --> 00:22:26.069
helped for fans less aware of Ilya. Um, so yeah. Um,
465
00:22:27.529 --> 00:22:34.380
And let's see. I think there's a comment from Zach. Oh,
466
00:22:34.420 --> 00:22:37.799
here it is. Derek Mitchell says, Speedball faced off against
467
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:40.339
MGF in the main event of Dynamite on April 6th,
468
00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:46.009
earlier this year. So good memory, Taylor. He said he
469
00:22:46.029 --> 00:22:46.670
thought he might have, yeah.
470
00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:49.730
Yeah, I just figured he, because he was, they were
471
00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:52.029
really pushing him there for a little bit. And I
472
00:22:52.069 --> 00:22:55.910
figured he'd, if I was, you know, I bet. So
473
00:22:55.990 --> 00:22:58.829
I figured the odds were. Yeah, yeah.
474
00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:03.450
The odds were on your side for sure. And Zach
475
00:23:03.470 --> 00:23:05.670
Barber says, hey, Wade, it's his first week. He doesn't
476
00:23:05.930 --> 00:23:08.950
even have an established feud yet. That works from the
477
00:23:08.990 --> 00:23:10.869
premise that you should have a feud before you have
478
00:23:10.910 --> 00:23:13.069
an established personality. And I think it should go the
479
00:23:13.109 --> 00:23:16.369
other way around. Controversial take, Taylor. I don't think you
480
00:23:16.390 --> 00:23:18.470
have to wait for a feud. But that said, I
481
00:23:18.490 --> 00:23:19.970
think there's plenty of room to show us and not
482
00:23:19.990 --> 00:23:23.109
tell us. I just don't want them to think, wow,
483
00:23:23.170 --> 00:23:25.700
we did it. We got Ilya established, and now just
484
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:26.920
send him to the ring, ring the bell, and let
485
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:31.029
him wrestle. I'm advocating for more than that. All right,
486
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:34.269
let's pause, introduce ourselves, and talk about other things on
487
00:23:34.289 --> 00:23:35.390
this show. There's a lot to talk about.
488
00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:41.130
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Well,
489
00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:44.089
come join me, Alan Forel, over in the Pro Wrestling
490
00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:48.049
Paradise at PWTorch VIP as we bask on the bright
491
00:23:48.130 --> 00:23:50.730
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
492
00:23:50.789 --> 00:23:55.579
matches and shows from around the world. be it the US, Japan, Europe,
493
00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:58.920
or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestling's past in
494
00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:02.079
the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such
495
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:05.519
as the We Love Liger series, celebrating the glorious career
496
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:09.079
of Jushin Thunder Liger, and our I Was There When shows,
497
00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:11.059
where our guests will join me to talk about a
498
00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:14.869
classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety,
499
00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:17.109
and you can expect lots of it at the Pro
500
00:24:17.150 --> 00:24:22.130
Wrestling Paradise. Detailed PWTorch VIP subscription information And a list
501
00:24:22.170 --> 00:24:27.940
of all the VIP benefits is available at pwtorchvipinfo.com. And yes,
502
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:32.240
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on.
503
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.539
iPhone and Android devices.
504
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.519
Or you can stream them directly from our ad-free VIP
505
00:24:37.579 --> 00:24:39.769
mobile site. See you in the paradise.
506
00:24:43.069 --> 00:24:45.009
This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Wednesday,
507
00:24:45.029 --> 00:24:49.009
October 21st, 2026. I'm Wade Keller, host of the show. editor, publisher,
508
00:24:49.049 --> 00:24:52.329
and founder of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter, the
509
00:24:52.369 --> 00:24:56.009
website PWTorch.com, and hosts a variety of podcasts, including the
510
00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.650
Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, which includes our Tuesday night flagship,
511
00:25:01.309 --> 00:25:03.170
dropped this week with Greg Parks. We spent over an
512
00:25:03.269 --> 00:25:05.670
hour and a half talking to AEW and WWE topics,
513
00:25:05.690 --> 00:25:08.829
so check that out. Search Wade Keller in your podcast
514
00:25:08.970 --> 00:25:11.490
app to subscribe. Search Wade Keller. You'll see the red
515
00:25:11.529 --> 00:25:13.710
logo and the blue logo pop up. Subscribe to both.
516
00:25:14.210 --> 00:25:17.829
The blue logo includes our weekly flagship, pay-per-view previews, interviews, mailbags,
517
00:25:18.210 --> 00:25:21.990
classic shows from 5, 10, 15 years ago, and long
518
00:25:22.029 --> 00:25:24.549
form big name interviews. And that is audio only, not
519
00:25:24.589 --> 00:25:26.230
on YouTube. So if you're watching us on YouTube, be
520
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:29.150
sure to subscribe to listen to that. You can also
521
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:32.339
subscribe to the audio version of these post shows by
522
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.759
searching Wade Keller and subscribing to the Red Logo Show.
523
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.420
If you are listening to us on the podcast side
524
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.759
of things, you are invited to join us on YouTube
525
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:42.279
every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday night is when I host.
526
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.960
We also have our Tuesday night NXT post show and
527
00:25:45.019 --> 00:25:48.289
pay-per-view post shows. I actually hosted the Wrestling Night in
528
00:25:48.329 --> 00:25:52.910
America post-show after WrestleDream on Saturday night with Chris Lansdell.
529
00:25:53.230 --> 00:25:55.829
That is on the PWTorch daily cast feed. In order
530
00:25:56.250 --> 00:25:58.809
to subscribe to that for free, you need to search
531
00:25:59.289 --> 00:26:02.490
PWTorch in your podcast app. That includes a different show
532
00:26:02.509 --> 00:26:04.519
each day of the week with different hosts, including the
533
00:26:04.690 --> 00:26:08.130
All Elite Conversation Club with Joel Donnell and Greg Kanter.
534
00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:10.599
That is also free to subscribe to. To get all
535
00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:18.470
these shows commercial free, govippwtorch.com slash govip. That's PWTorch.com slash
536
00:26:18.490 --> 00:26:22.559
GoVIP for full details on getting all the VIP benefits,
537
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.900
including a customizable podcast feed compatible with Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
538
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:29.789
and many other podcast feeds, depending on how you sign up.
539
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.880
My guest host tonight is Taylor Haley. He's a PWTorch contributor.
540
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.640
He wrote an excellent article as a follow-up to WrestleDream
541
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.059
that is up on PWTorch right now. I encourage you
542
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:43.579
to go check it out in the opinion section or
543
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.789
on the main listing. I featured it in the aforementioned
544
00:26:46.829 --> 00:26:49.369
PWTorch VIP forum, drew attention to it. I thought it
545
00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:51.730
was a really good piece. It's a new feature you're
546
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.779
writing now that is scheduled for after AW pay-per-views, where
547
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.200
you kind of look at, there's an evaluation of the
548
00:26:58.220 --> 00:27:01.279
pay-per-view in the structure, but it is also looking at
549
00:27:01.539 --> 00:27:04.319
what's next. What did this set up going forward? Talk
550
00:27:04.339 --> 00:27:06.529
about the format and maybe a couple of points you
551
00:27:06.549 --> 00:27:07.890
made in the column before we move on, Taylor.
552
00:27:08.809 --> 00:27:11.650
Yeah, so like you said, it touches on a little
553
00:27:11.690 --> 00:27:13.549
bit of what happened in the pay-per-view, but kind of
554
00:27:13.589 --> 00:27:15.049
like one of my favorite things to do is just
555
00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:16.930
talk with my buddies and try to guess, all right,
556
00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:19.730
where are we going now? So just trying to guessing,
557
00:27:19.910 --> 00:27:21.529
you know, coming out of the pay-per-view, you know, where
558
00:27:21.549 --> 00:27:26.859
we're going from now. I actually had, after the Moxley-Davis match,
559
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:29.539
one of my things was, I don't know where Moxley's going,
560
00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:31.920
but I know for sure that on Wednesday night, he
561
00:27:31.940 --> 00:27:33.880
will be in a match no matter what, defending the
562
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.630
continental title. And then there he was Wednesday night, I
563
00:27:37.829 --> 00:27:39.710
wasn't defending it. It was an eliminator, but he was
564
00:27:39.750 --> 00:27:43.539
in it. I also talked about what was maybe next
565
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:47.619
for Mercedes after the Tecla match, which I thought was
566
00:27:47.660 --> 00:27:50.200
a little weird. I thought that match was a little weird.
567
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.230
I thought the aftermath was a little weird too. Kind
568
00:27:54.250 --> 00:27:56.509
of came off like maybe they didn't like each other.
569
00:27:56.769 --> 00:27:59.809
I don't know. It just was weird. I talked about
570
00:27:59.829 --> 00:28:02.650
maybe Tecla teaming up to go after some tag titles,
571
00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:05.059
which I don't know. Tonight it looked like she's getting
572
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:07.000
involved in kind of the tag title scene after that
573
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.690
kind of beatdown in the back. So, yeah, check it out.
574
00:28:11.410 --> 00:28:12.970
It's new. It's the first time I've wrote it this month.
575
00:28:13.710 --> 00:28:16.250
So I'm looking forward to keeping it going. Awesome.
576
00:28:16.990 --> 00:28:19.029
All right. You can be part of the show in
577
00:28:19.049 --> 00:28:21.710
the live chat if you're watching us on our live
578
00:28:21.730 --> 00:28:25.309
YouTube stream. If you're not, just search or go to YouTube,
579
00:28:25.329 --> 00:28:27.190
search PWTorch, and you can find our shows. You can
580
00:28:27.210 --> 00:28:28.890
also find a link to our shows in my TV
581
00:28:28.910 --> 00:28:32.109
reports at PWTorch.com. So join the chat if you're watching
582
00:28:32.140 --> 00:28:34.269
us live. Otherwise, you can email us if you don't
583
00:28:34.289 --> 00:28:36.269
watch us live, but you watch Dynamite on our SmackDown.
584
00:28:36.690 --> 00:28:40.589
WadeKellerPostShow at gmail.com is how you contribute your question or
585
00:28:40.650 --> 00:28:42.329
comments that we can read on the air. And finally,
586
00:28:42.349 --> 00:28:43.670
you can be a live caller if you want. The
587
00:28:43.750 --> 00:28:46.519
link changes with every show. And in my TV report
588
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.730
tonight on Dynamite, there is a link. Click on it.
589
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:50.599
It'll bring you to the waiting room. You can leave
590
00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:52.460
your camera on or turn it off and be audio only.
591
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:55.019
Either way works. And we invite you to do so.
592
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.660
All right. Let's turn back to more content on tonight's show. Actually,
593
00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:03.650
another comment on Dragunov before we move on. Mark Buschetti says,
594
00:29:03.710 --> 00:29:06.069
Dragunov was great with Sammy in the U.S. title stuff.
595
00:29:06.430 --> 00:29:08.230
He should be able to get his character, which is
596
00:29:08.250 --> 00:29:11.750
hopefully more than just being intense, over quickly. He has
597
00:29:11.789 --> 00:29:15.849
the storytelling ability. Absolutely. I just don't want anyone to
598
00:29:15.869 --> 00:29:18.000
think they're done. It's not mission accomplished yet. This is
599
00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:19.980
the beginning of establishing who he is. Show us. Don't
600
00:29:20.019 --> 00:29:21.900
tell us. That's fine if that's the approach. But when
601
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:23.240
you put him in the main event and hype him
602
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.490
as the main eventer, Soon I want it more than
603
00:29:26.670 --> 00:29:29.049
look at his ring entrance and look at how he
604
00:29:29.069 --> 00:29:30.789
cares himself. Give us a little bit more than that.
605
00:29:30.809 --> 00:29:35.250
So we'll see. But I'm excited to have him here
606
00:29:35.289 --> 00:29:37.630
for match quality. And there's a ton of dream matches
607
00:29:38.349 --> 00:29:40.670
for him to have with a lot of like. wrestlers
608
00:29:41.130 --> 00:29:42.670
who are in their athletic prime, so that'll be good.
609
00:29:43.150 --> 00:29:46.059
Ducky D says, Excalibur gave us a lot, but I
610
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:50.299
think they're leaning into the mystery blank slate purposely. Calus
611
00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:55.400
even said he was scouting. So interesting. We'll see. I
612
00:29:55.420 --> 00:29:57.279
think they want Dragunov to take on Will Ospreay at
613
00:29:57.299 --> 00:30:00.029
some point. Taylor before they define him down. I mean,
614
00:30:00.049 --> 00:30:02.670
that's just, it's, it's, it's on the list of what
615
00:30:02.730 --> 00:30:05.029
matches would be great. And I want them to turn
616
00:30:05.069 --> 00:30:10.250
it into what match will sell tickets, sell pay-per-views, draw ratings,
617
00:30:10.549 --> 00:30:13.660
make Osprey seem like a bigger star, define what AW
618
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.859
stands for besides great matches, tell a really good story here.
619
00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:20.740
And I, again, not saying that they don't have those plans.
620
00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:23.099
I'm just saying, I hope they do.
621
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:24.160
Yeah.
622
00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:28.930
That's all. not, not being a negative on it in
623
00:30:28.970 --> 00:30:33.410
that sense. All right. So we had a intriguing, let's
624
00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:36.799
just talk about the young box getting decimated by Mark
625
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.500
Davis and Jake Doyle. Renee, the cat set this up
626
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:42.819
beforehand with a ringside report saying that the box were
627
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.160
medically cleared, kind of gave the impression it was barely
628
00:30:45.619 --> 00:30:47.359
and that they were not feeling good after what they
629
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.430
went through on a Saturday. I didn't expect that. I
630
00:30:50.470 --> 00:30:54.670
kind of liked it. I think fans were like, wow, like,
631
00:30:55.170 --> 00:30:58.009
I mean, some were disappointed. I think you show up
632
00:30:58.029 --> 00:30:59.529
at an AEW Dynamite event, you want to watch the
633
00:30:59.549 --> 00:31:02.009
Young Bucks do their thing, but I thought it had impact,
634
00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:05.309
and I think it can help sell the match that
635
00:31:05.329 --> 00:31:08.630
they announced now for Full Gear. What did you think
636
00:31:08.829 --> 00:31:11.430
of the elevation, I'll call it, of Davis and Doyle
637
00:31:11.450 --> 00:31:15.750
with their decimation of the Decimators, could be their tag
638
00:31:15.769 --> 00:31:18.089
team name, of the Young Bucks after tonight?
639
00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:20.880
Yeah, I mean, I loved it. I liked that it
640
00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:23.019
wasn't kind of like a fluke win. They just went
641
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:28.619
in there and just kick their ass about you know
642
00:31:28.859 --> 00:31:31.359
a few minutes into that match i was like they're
643
00:31:31.460 --> 00:31:34.720
really kicking their ass like this is like this is
644
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.380
not a young this is not a young bucks match
645
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:39.559
i kind of like you know so i kind of
646
00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:40.880
like sat up on my couch a little bit more
647
00:31:40.900 --> 00:31:43.799
like what's what's kind of going on yeah it's.
648
00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.450
Like you think you're leaving the territory.
649
00:31:45.349 --> 00:31:49.920
Yeah yeah right the old days yeah uh Yeah, no,
650
00:31:50.029 --> 00:31:51.970
I loved it. And then, you know, as the show
651
00:31:51.990 --> 00:31:53.430
went on, you kind of realized why they did that
652
00:31:53.450 --> 00:31:55.190
and set it up for, for blood and guts and everything.
653
00:31:55.210 --> 00:31:57.509
But yeah, no, I love stuff like that every once
654
00:31:57.549 --> 00:32:00.789
in a while, just something that shocks you that you
655
00:32:00.809 --> 00:32:04.210
don't see coming at all. And yeah, I thought it
656
00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:07.359
was great. You know, I feel like they do kind
657
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.440
of need some more people in the tag team division,
658
00:32:10.460 --> 00:32:13.119
like actual tag teams, not just guys thrown together, like
659
00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:17.660
actual teams. So yeah, I thought anytime you can elevate
660
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:20.009
a new tag team and, If you're going to do it,
661
00:32:20.029 --> 00:32:20.950
that's the hell of a way to do it.
662
00:32:22.490 --> 00:32:24.009
Derek Mitchell in the chat says, I haven't seen a
663
00:32:24.029 --> 00:32:26.339
beatdown like that since Brock Lesnar took John Cena to
664
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.880
Suplex City at SummerSlam a decade ago. Davis and Doyle
665
00:32:28.900 --> 00:32:32.359
feel like Hanson and Brody in all Japan. Yeah, I mean,
666
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:36.180
if you can frame them that way. I'm a fan
667
00:32:36.220 --> 00:32:37.559
of Davis and Doyle and what they've done with them.
668
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.369
Davis has had bangers with John Moxley and others. I
669
00:32:42.390 --> 00:32:45.390
think they've established their brand. And I like AEW having
670
00:32:45.430 --> 00:32:46.730
a bruiser tag team like that.
671
00:32:47.049 --> 00:32:47.230
Yeah.
672
00:32:47.369 --> 00:32:49.829
In the mix. And I like the contrast style wise
673
00:32:50.069 --> 00:32:53.630
with the young bucks. So, yeah, I'm all for it.
674
00:32:53.630 --> 00:32:55.599
I mean, I think they're kind of what WWE wanted,
675
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:59.400
like the Viking Raiders to be and just can't pull
676
00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:03.140
it off. And it just it it worked tonight. Ducky
677
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:05.299
D says Mark Davis is the sixth man of the
678
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:08.849
year equivalent for wrestling. Really love everything he's done in
679
00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:10.430
twenty twenty six. Yeah, I like that. I like that
680
00:33:10.750 --> 00:33:14.049
NBA analogy there. Zach Barber said, yeah, that was a
681
00:33:14.250 --> 00:33:18.730
legally authorized murder. Davis and Doyle looked great. And Adam
682
00:33:18.750 --> 00:33:22.609
Kidd says, loved it. Nice shocker to start the show.
683
00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:25.839
I'm curious what kind of follow-up there will be. We
684
00:33:25.859 --> 00:33:27.640
saw Nick later. He was fine to set up blood
685
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:29.720
and guts, but Matt wasn't, and he took the brunt
686
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.359
of it. They have time. They've got a few weeks.
687
00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:36.039
I want the Bucks to, I want AW to treat
688
00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:37.619
that as the big deal that we are here in
689
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.420
segment two. Like, what was that? we've never seen a
690
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:42.980
beat like that. Excalibur did a good job. He's like,
691
00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:44.700
I've been watching the Bucks for nearly 20 years. Never
692
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:47.319
seen that. Um, I want, and I'm, you know, I'm
693
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.900
really glad it's sort of multiple purposes, but I'm really
694
00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:52.000
glad Don Callis later in the show stood with the
695
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:55.170
Don Callis family and gloated about that and underlined it.
696
00:33:55.180 --> 00:33:58.529
That's one thing AW could do a better job on is,
697
00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:01.269
is if you do something in the first hour, find
698
00:34:01.309 --> 00:34:03.700
a way to follow up and add something to it,
699
00:34:03.750 --> 00:34:07.190
but also amplify and emphasize what the point of what
700
00:34:07.250 --> 00:34:09.489
that big thing was in the first hour in the
701
00:34:09.550 --> 00:34:13.849
second hour, just, to reinforce memories. You know, and I,
702
00:34:14.070 --> 00:34:16.710
I know it's controversial because Netflix has instructed like their
703
00:34:17.230 --> 00:34:19.610
people who make their original movies and their TV shows.
704
00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:22.489
It's been people written about this and talked about how
705
00:34:22.510 --> 00:34:26.780
they've been instructed to explain plot, have characters explain plot
706
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:29.119
lines as the show progresses. Cause they know they're looking
707
00:34:29.139 --> 00:34:31.860
at their phones and not paying attention. And our attention
708
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:34.360
spans have been ruined. I'm a victim of it. I'm trying, I'm,
709
00:34:34.909 --> 00:34:36.429
I'm trying to get better about it and kind of
710
00:34:36.489 --> 00:34:39.550
rehab my, my memory and my, need like, I mean,
711
00:34:39.610 --> 00:34:41.909
two seconds of nothing. And I'm like, oh, where's my phone?
712
00:34:41.949 --> 00:34:43.920
Or let me do something. I'm really trying to hit
713
00:34:43.940 --> 00:34:46.519
the reset button deliberately because I do think technology has
714
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:50.699
driven us to that. And part of it, part of
715
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:53.719
that happens in terms of wrestling, where if you just
716
00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:56.260
have one thing after another, after another, and then people
717
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:57.960
looking at their phones and it's just, oh, the next match,
718
00:34:57.980 --> 00:35:00.019
the next angle, you come away from the show going,
719
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.300
I enjoyed the experience, but it's sort of like mindlessly
720
00:35:02.409 --> 00:35:04.469
eating snacks. You can like eat a whole bag of
721
00:35:04.489 --> 00:35:06.550
chips and be like, oh, wait, it's empty. I wasn't
722
00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:09.730
even paying attention. And you don't want with wrestling. It's
723
00:35:09.769 --> 00:35:12.909
not just about, hey, we got you to watch. It's
724
00:35:13.170 --> 00:35:15.170
we want you to care. We want you emotionally moved
725
00:35:15.210 --> 00:35:16.789
by what we did so that you'll tune in again
726
00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:19.320
and pay money for a pay-per-view. So part of that
727
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.119
is what they did late in the show. And I
728
00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:23.260
want to commend them for that, which is Don Callis
729
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.500
gloating and reminding us it happened. So thumbs up for that.
730
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:29.510
And I thought the announcers did a good job selling
731
00:35:29.550 --> 00:35:31.369
it at the moment to Taylor Taylor.
732
00:35:31.510 --> 00:35:34.119
Yep. Yeah, no, I love that segment at the end too.
733
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.820
I liked him talking about, you know, and we're going to,
734
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:38.659
I love when wrestlers talk about the money that they're
735
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:41.659
going to get to when they, and then, oh God.
736
00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.530
And then that, that line when, you know, what's more
737
00:35:44.570 --> 00:35:46.489
important than money. And then Okada pops out of the
738
00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:51.989
back and says, family was just like, so perfect. That's like,
739
00:35:52.030 --> 00:35:54.750
that's just perfect. But yeah. And to go back to
740
00:35:54.789 --> 00:35:57.670
Mark Davis too, I, I think it's awesome what they've
741
00:35:57.809 --> 00:35:59.510
been doing with them. I mean, he, they've really turned
742
00:35:59.550 --> 00:36:03.300
him into like, an old school, like terrifying heel, you
743
00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:06.320
know what I mean? Just like an absolute bruiser. It
744
00:36:06.340 --> 00:36:08.500
reminds me of like, you know, when I was a
745
00:36:08.539 --> 00:36:11.059
kid and they, they'd pair Hogan up with like just
746
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:13.579
a scary monster. And you're like, this might be it
747
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:17.179
for Hulk. I don't know. He's just one of those,
748
00:36:17.619 --> 00:36:20.530
one of those, one of those guys, you know what
749
00:36:20.570 --> 00:36:23.369
I mean? Yeah. Especially coming out of the group with,
750
00:36:24.429 --> 00:36:26.550
with Fletcher and Osprey, you know what I mean? You could,
751
00:36:26.650 --> 00:36:27.969
it's so easy to just kind of be the third
752
00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:30.199
wheel and fall off. So, you know good for him
753
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.139
happy to see that you know he's he's really getting
754
00:36:32.539 --> 00:36:33.039
a look here.
755
00:36:32.969 --> 00:36:35.070
A couple years ago i was just a week after
756
00:36:35.150 --> 00:36:37.369
i'm like put the don callous family on tv on
757
00:36:37.389 --> 00:36:39.469
camera together i want to see them as a group
758
00:36:39.510 --> 00:36:42.230
i really wanted to understand that they hang out together
759
00:36:42.269 --> 00:36:45.269
it's not just some abstract notion that there's a family
760
00:36:45.309 --> 00:36:47.329
and i want them to be in the don callous
761
00:36:47.389 --> 00:36:49.550
business and they are and i know some people complain
762
00:36:49.590 --> 00:36:51.960
the faction's too big i don't mind i don't want
763
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.199
too big i don't want two factions that big and
764
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:58.420
the death riders pushes it sometimes but um I just
765
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.820
think Don Callis has become a defining manager of this
766
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.420
era for AEW and it takes persistence and repetition and
767
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:09.590
presence on a weekly basis and a diverse group of wrestlers.
768
00:37:09.650 --> 00:37:12.110
I just, I really like what they've done with them.
769
00:37:12.210 --> 00:37:15.250
I mean, and like that promo tonight with them standing
770
00:37:15.289 --> 00:37:18.610
around and, you know, Okada being Okada with his smirk.
771
00:37:18.670 --> 00:37:21.250
And I just like, you know, their personalities are different,
772
00:37:21.570 --> 00:37:23.869
but they're there for the money. They're there because they
773
00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:26.349
kind of help each other out in ways that are,
774
00:37:26.570 --> 00:37:30.190
you know, nefarious and shenanigan oriented. But it makes them
775
00:37:30.210 --> 00:37:32.550
heels and it works. But Davis and Doyle are a
776
00:37:33.429 --> 00:37:36.309
different brand of wrestler within that within that family, so
777
00:37:36.329 --> 00:37:38.329
to speak. And I like that. Adam Kidd says, and
778
00:37:38.349 --> 00:37:40.730
it was believable. They are monsters compared to the Bucks
779
00:37:40.789 --> 00:37:43.429
and jumped them at the bell and didn't let up.
780
00:37:44.710 --> 00:37:45.070
Totally.
781
00:37:45.710 --> 00:37:47.820
Mark Biscotti says, yeah, the Bludgeon brothers.
782
00:37:48.610 --> 00:37:48.820
Yeah.
783
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:52.619
Um, Michigan sports guy says, I also like seeing a
784
00:37:52.659 --> 00:37:54.380
Haas tag team in the mix. And that's what I
785
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.480
was saying. Like AW isn't known for that. You know,
786
00:37:56.500 --> 00:37:59.079
like the Haas, you know, Brody King, it's like, Oh yay.
787
00:37:59.139 --> 00:38:00.280
He's in a tournament and we're going to see kind
788
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:02.429
of a, more of a Haas fight with him. Um,
789
00:38:02.769 --> 00:38:06.690
you know, Wardlow hasn't delivered in that realm. Lance Archer hasn't. Um,
790
00:38:07.369 --> 00:38:08.889
I'm trying to think who, who would be the best
791
00:38:08.929 --> 00:38:13.789
kind of Haas fighter in, uh, AW history. I mean, Eddie, um,
792
00:38:14.630 --> 00:38:16.090
I know Eddie Kingston was different than that. He was
793
00:38:16.110 --> 00:38:17.010
more kind of hardcore.
794
00:38:17.030 --> 00:38:19.909
Um, Yeah. So I, he's more of a street fighter.
795
00:38:19.949 --> 00:38:22.269
He was more of like a street fighter guy. Yeah.
796
00:38:22.909 --> 00:38:24.809
So I like this. You don't want everybody just to
797
00:38:24.849 --> 00:38:28.739
be collar Riley meets Adam Cole meets Roderick strong. You know,
798
00:38:28.780 --> 00:38:31.280
it's like, there's a lot of kind of, you know,
799
00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:35.360
similarities in body types and ring styles. Um, Derek Mitchell
800
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:37.400
says it does have a David Goliath feel with the
801
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.659
bucks against Davidson Doyle, similar to the rock and roll express.
802
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:41.110
And they battle teams like the Russians.
803
00:38:41.179 --> 00:38:41.449
Yes.
804
00:38:41.570 --> 00:38:44.949
Nikita Koloff, Ivan Koloff, pressure crew show for sure. I
805
00:38:44.969 --> 00:38:48.590
like the contrast of both teams. Um, Indeed.
806
00:38:48.869 --> 00:38:49.030
Yep.
807
00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:53.329
Totally agree. You know that last segment you're just listening
808
00:38:53.369 --> 00:38:55.570
to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to?
809
00:38:55.750 --> 00:38:58.349
Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership.
810
00:38:58.389 --> 00:39:02.289
You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com
811
00:39:02.349 --> 00:39:06.110
slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com
812
00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:10.840
slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using
813
00:39:10.860 --> 00:39:13.039
your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you
814
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:15.659
can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS
815
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.670
or Android app with a full VIP membership. You can
816
00:39:18.750 --> 00:39:21.969
customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows
817
00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:26.400
and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details
818
00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:29.869
on all the options to listen commercial-free and with upper-tier options.
819
00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:20.550
All right.
820
00:39:20.670 --> 00:39:23.889
So moving on, let's talk about the Will Osprey, Adam Copeland, Fletcher,
821
00:39:23.909 --> 00:39:26.380
Kevin Knight match. Speaking of the brought up the Callis
822
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.119
family and we brought up the Copeland and Osprey thing.
823
00:39:49.659 --> 00:39:55.019
What did you make of Fletcher and how he looked
824
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:59.230
in this match and then what they did afterwards and
825
00:39:59.329 --> 00:40:01.590
where it's leading? There's a lot of moving parts here,
826
00:40:01.610 --> 00:40:04.210
a lot to talk about coming out of the pay-per-view.
827
00:40:05.449 --> 00:40:08.329
Yeah, so this is the one match that I've really been,
828
00:40:08.349 --> 00:40:11.920
and it seems like we're getting to it. This is
829
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:14.599
the one match I really was waiting to see with Ospreay,
830
00:40:14.659 --> 00:40:17.829
was the Ospreay-Fletcher match. just because I feel like they
831
00:40:17.849 --> 00:40:20.190
can really tell a story here. I mean, there's so
832
00:40:20.909 --> 00:40:24.820
much between these guys where I really hope they take
833
00:40:24.860 --> 00:40:29.159
the time to really, you know, make this special because
834
00:40:29.179 --> 00:40:32.519
it really can be. And to really make this like
835
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.480
the defining rivalry of Ospreay's title reign. I'd like to
836
00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:40.670
see these guys really, you know, have a, have a swerve,
837
00:40:41.070 --> 00:40:43.530
you know, hangman kind of vibe to it with, you know,
838
00:40:43.949 --> 00:40:46.110
this is a, this is a rivalry that goes deep.
839
00:40:46.150 --> 00:40:47.739
I'm going to see this for a long time. Um,
840
00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:51.179
you know, we're going to get, we're going to get
841
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:56.570
the Copeland Osprey, uh, match. I would imagine. Um, you know, I,
842
00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:59.800
I wrote in my article that, uh, I don't, you know,
843
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:04.389
I appreciate everything Copeland's done. Um, you know, I, I was, uh,
844
00:41:04.469 --> 00:41:06.730
I've always been a fan of his, I've, you know, uh,
845
00:41:07.730 --> 00:41:09.829
but I just don't think he needs the title. We've
846
00:41:09.849 --> 00:41:13.150
seen so many of these, you know, veteran at the
847
00:41:13.210 --> 00:41:15.820
end of his run going for the title. I, you know,
848
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.099
we've kind of seen it, you know, I just don't
849
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:20.699
think at this point for AEW, they need to put
850
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:23.559
the title on Adam Copeland and give him kind of
851
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:26.920
a run and a goodbye. Um, I, I just don't
852
00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:28.039
think they need to do it. I think they got
853
00:41:28.059 --> 00:41:29.550
a good thing going with Osprey and I don't think
854
00:41:29.610 --> 00:41:33.909
that they should halt that to give Adam Copeland, you know,
855
00:41:34.010 --> 00:41:38.139
kind of his flowers at the end. Um, He also,
856
00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:42.239
he also like, he can get really long winded with
857
00:41:42.260 --> 00:41:46.139
these promos. I just, I worry about him and, and
858
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:49.400
he always, I feel like whenever he is with these
859
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:53.159
younger kids, he always kind of falls back into that. Like, Hey, listen, kid,
860
00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:55.320
I've been doing this for da, da, da, da, da.
861
00:41:55.469 --> 00:41:57.329
And I just, I don't, I don't want him to
862
00:41:57.369 --> 00:41:59.409
do that to Osprey. I don't need to, you know,
863
00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:02.150
Osprey is not a kid, you know, he is, but
864
00:42:02.170 --> 00:42:05.590
he's not. And I feel like sometimes, you know, he,
865
00:42:05.670 --> 00:42:07.570
he just falls back on that too much. I just,
866
00:42:07.650 --> 00:42:10.050
I hope it's just kind of a quick, I hope
867
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.019
it's shorter than longer, I guess, if they're going.
868
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:15.559
To do it. They set up it to me, it
869
00:42:15.579 --> 00:42:19.019
seems like to Copeland and Okada just because Okada was
870
00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:21.840
kind of the primary person going after him after the match.
871
00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:25.719
So we may not be immediately in that room. Cause
872
00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:27.300
he's the one who held up the belt and cost him,
873
00:42:27.989 --> 00:42:29.530
you know, it got the belt shot to his head
874
00:42:29.570 --> 00:42:31.090
and cost him during the match. And then he attacked
875
00:42:31.130 --> 00:42:32.349
him after the match. And I know there are a
876
00:42:32.349 --> 00:42:33.610
lot of moving parts, as I said, cause this is
877
00:42:33.630 --> 00:42:36.449
setting up blood and guts too, but, I'm here for
878
00:42:36.730 --> 00:42:41.570
Copeland and Okada, especially... Do I want to say this?
879
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:43.929
Especially if Copeland wins to justify a world title shot
880
00:42:43.949 --> 00:42:47.980
against Ospreay. But if they're looking at Ospreay later, you
881
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.440
could also have a story where Okada beats him and
882
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:54.579
Copeland goes through a phase of actually trying to prove himself.
883
00:42:54.699 --> 00:42:57.340
I don't know. There's different stories they can tell with Copeland.
884
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.239
They have a long runway here to tell the story
885
00:43:00.260 --> 00:43:02.179
that they want to tell. I don't think we need
886
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.239
to rush into... copeland osprey but maybe they're going to
887
00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:06.730
do it quickly and he has a setback and then
888
00:43:06.750 --> 00:43:09.289
he fights back to try to get a one more
889
00:43:09.349 --> 00:43:11.170
match after coming up short too which i think is
890
00:43:11.190 --> 00:43:13.329
in in the mix too as a possibility.
891
00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:15.150
Yeah and i had in my notes too um i
892
00:43:15.190 --> 00:43:17.849
know that he copeland had a copeland had put out
893
00:43:17.869 --> 00:43:20.710
that kind of checklist of venues he wanted to go
894
00:43:20.829 --> 00:43:22.789
and tokyo dome was one of them so i wonder
895
00:43:22.829 --> 00:43:24.510
if maybe they're setting that up with him and okada
896
00:43:24.969 --> 00:43:26.449
um that would be.
897
00:43:26.429 --> 00:43:29.690
Cool that would be really cool yeah yeah that definitely
898
00:43:29.710 --> 00:43:30.309
could be it yeah.
899
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:31.679
Yeah, I mean, that's kind of one of those things
900
00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:33.780
I had in my, you know, we'll probably talk about
901
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:35.739
it later. It was like, it's one of those things
902
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:37.739
I love about wrestling. Like imagine two years, you know,
903
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:40.389
imagine four years ago, I would have told you that,
904
00:43:40.429 --> 00:43:43.230
you know, we could possibly have in Copeland, Okada at
905
00:43:43.289 --> 00:43:46.090
the Tokyo Dome. Or if, you know, imagine the flash here,
906
00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:48.269
I had told you, you know, New Day might be
907
00:43:48.309 --> 00:43:51.840
in a Texas death match with, you know, Hank Mann
908
00:43:51.940 --> 00:43:54.840
and Swerve. That's one of the best things about wrestling.
909
00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:59.880
You just, literally anything can happen. It's just, it's the best. Yep. Yep.
910
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:03.639
Um so blood and guts talk just talk about the
911
00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:06.559
the setup for this how you feel about the uh
912
00:44:06.619 --> 00:44:08.840
the wrestlers involved and what they did to build it
913
00:44:08.900 --> 00:44:12.159
up tonight with steve borden making his return.
914
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.340
Yeah i mean i i love blood and guts but
915
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:17.550
i feel like the past couple years they're just doing
916
00:44:17.610 --> 00:44:19.989
it because now it's something that's on the calendar so
917
00:44:20.409 --> 00:44:22.269
they're not really putting a lot of thought into it
918
00:44:22.789 --> 00:44:24.829
it's just kind of like two weeks before blood and
919
00:44:24.849 --> 00:44:28.949
guts you know let's get this faction of guys together
920
00:44:28.989 --> 00:44:30.949
and that faction of guys together, we'll have them team
921
00:44:30.989 --> 00:44:33.590
up with another faction. We'll have run-ins. And I mean,
922
00:44:33.610 --> 00:44:35.559
there was so many people in the ring tonight. It
923
00:44:35.579 --> 00:44:40.159
was like, it was insane. There's so many people that
924
00:44:40.219 --> 00:44:42.420
I was kind of like, all right, who's turning on
925
00:44:42.460 --> 00:44:44.860
who here who's with who like, um.
926
00:44:45.429 --> 00:44:47.030
Well that, yeah, we'll get to that.
927
00:44:47.570 --> 00:44:47.750
Yeah.
928
00:44:47.829 --> 00:44:48.670
Yeah.
929
00:44:49.469 --> 00:44:50.429
One segment in particular.
930
00:44:50.469 --> 00:44:50.650
Yeah.
931
00:44:50.949 --> 00:44:51.170
Yeah.
932
00:44:51.210 --> 00:44:54.869
They kind of did that classic, uh, you know, when, when, when, uh,
933
00:44:56.269 --> 00:44:58.969
when Jay White turned, they did the classic kind of
934
00:44:59.630 --> 00:45:01.349
the guy in front of him turns his back. And
935
00:45:01.369 --> 00:45:03.110
then there's kind of like that one second of like,
936
00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:04.230
Oh my God, is he going to do it?
937
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:04.940
And then he does it.
938
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:09.840
So, yeah. I mean, it would be great match. It
939
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.639
was nice to see Steve Boren back whenever he talks.
940
00:45:13.699 --> 00:45:15.099
It's always crazy to me how much he sounds like
941
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.360
his dad. It's like so crazy. I mean, it's really
942
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.619
better for worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
943
00:45:19.900 --> 00:45:21.079
I mean, there's sort of a, yeah.
944
00:45:21.699 --> 00:45:23.079
Yeah. But you know, I just kind of feel like,
945
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:25.739
you know, it's just kind of another rush job heading
946
00:45:25.780 --> 00:45:28.619
into a blood and guts. I like more when there's
947
00:45:28.739 --> 00:45:32.019
actually like, you know, these guys have been going at
948
00:45:32.059 --> 00:45:34.489
each other for the last six months and they've had
949
00:45:34.510 --> 00:45:36.929
a couple of matches. And the only way we can
950
00:45:37.010 --> 00:45:39.190
settle this is in a cage, blood and guts. You
951
00:45:39.210 --> 00:45:42.170
know what I mean? These kind of just thrown together
952
00:45:42.289 --> 00:45:45.269
ones don't really kind of, don't really kind of get,
953
00:45:45.789 --> 00:45:47.219
you know, get the juices going, I guess.
954
00:45:47.260 --> 00:45:50.519
You know what I mean? Would you rather not have
955
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.769
blood and guts fall on the same time each year? Um,
956
00:45:53.969 --> 00:45:58.090
but instead aim for it, it arrests are saying it
957
00:45:58.170 --> 00:46:01.789
because it feels like we've got, that's the, that's the
958
00:46:01.809 --> 00:46:04.050
only way to settle this or, or fight it out
959
00:46:04.590 --> 00:46:06.550
because we see with war games too. It's like, it
960
00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:08.230
sort of has the, Oh, how convenient.
961
00:46:08.590 --> 00:46:09.989
Yeah. Yeah.
962
00:46:10.190 --> 00:46:10.489
Yeah.
963
00:46:10.530 --> 00:46:13.130
I don't, I don't like that. Oh, how convenient vibe
964
00:46:13.170 --> 00:46:14.809
of it. And I wouldn't even mind if they don't
965
00:46:14.849 --> 00:46:16.570
do it every year. You know what I mean? It's,
966
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:19.579
you know, it's one of those things where it's, you know,
967
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:21.360
it's one of those things it's cool, but like at
968
00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:24.230
this point, well, we've kind of seen everything, you know
969
00:46:24.250 --> 00:46:26.699
what I mean? You know, take a year off. Let
970
00:46:26.739 --> 00:46:28.300
us kind of forget some of the things that have
971
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.559
happened inside the cage. You know what I mean? There's
972
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.360
only so many things you can do in there with,
973
00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:34.960
with stuff, you know, there's always at least one inventive
974
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.699
thing that they'll come up with. But, um, those matches
975
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.139
sometimes to me, like, it's like, all right, okay, we've
976
00:46:43.179 --> 00:46:46.590
seen it. All right.
977
00:46:48.909 --> 00:46:51.110
I don't think it should feel like something they have to,
978
00:46:52.099 --> 00:46:56.340
make happen each year with contrived booking but it should
979
00:46:56.500 --> 00:46:58.579
feel like i hope they do it because it's been
980
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:00.980
a while and it feels like it's justified yeah and
981
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.170
so like to me the the the clockwork match is
982
00:47:04.210 --> 00:47:07.030
fine to do annually especially and i've you know defended
983
00:47:07.110 --> 00:47:11.449
it with the caveat of it being tweaked um what
984
00:47:11.829 --> 00:47:13.730
as it was there were flaws and and there were
985
00:47:13.750 --> 00:47:16.090
things that just didn't in the lore of how aw
986
00:47:16.650 --> 00:47:19.440
wrestlers kick out of finishers it wasn't believable how there
987
00:47:19.460 --> 00:47:21.880
were so many pinfalls so quickly there wasn't enough to
988
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.659
justify it had the announcer said these wrestlers are exhausted
989
00:47:24.699 --> 00:47:26.769
after qualifying and lasting in the first part of the
990
00:47:26.869 --> 00:47:29.849
match and and i made this case with chris lansdell
991
00:47:29.869 --> 00:47:31.969
on saturday night on the post show if the announcer
992
00:47:31.989 --> 00:47:33.769
said said you know we're seeing a lot acknowledge it
993
00:47:33.849 --> 00:47:35.409
we're seeing a lot of pinfalls here with wrestlers who
994
00:47:35.429 --> 00:47:37.610
don't normally lose you know why because these wrestlers are
995
00:47:37.650 --> 00:47:39.710
used to one-on-one matches where they know their opponent is
996
00:47:39.730 --> 00:47:41.230
they don't have five other people coming at them from
997
00:47:41.269 --> 00:47:43.150
other directions and they haven't fought for 15 or 20
998
00:47:43.150 --> 00:47:45.949
minutes before we got to this stage second of all
999
00:47:46.010 --> 00:47:50.809
wrestlers know that they can fight another day. They're not
1000
00:47:50.909 --> 00:47:53.190
losing a point. The person pinning them is gaining a point.
1001
00:47:53.550 --> 00:47:55.349
It does lead, and it'd be great to have Taz
1002
00:47:55.409 --> 00:47:57.110
on commentary here to go, it does lead to a
1003
00:47:57.110 --> 00:47:59.190
different mindset. As a wrestler, if you know you can
1004
00:47:59.230 --> 00:48:04.449
take a pin, you're less likely to worry about it
1005
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.130
because you just want to take the pin, get up,
1006
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:07.880
and fight more. You don't want to give... I don't know.
1007
00:48:08.179 --> 00:48:09.980
Maybe that's overdoing it a bit, but there's a way
1008
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:13.039
to talk about how the context is different, therefore expect
1009
00:48:13.059 --> 00:48:15.400
it to feel different. Certainly they did that.
1010
00:48:17.070 --> 00:48:19.510
I think it was Nigel who said, you know, talk about, Oh,
1011
00:48:19.670 --> 00:48:26.469
Osprey or, um, uh, Moxley, uh, Osprey giving up was
1012
00:48:27.150 --> 00:48:29.590
a self-preservation move because it wasn't going to hurt him
1013
00:48:30.170 --> 00:48:32.150
other than it gives another opponent a chance to score
1014
00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:34.710
a point, but you want to tap out to fight
1015
00:48:34.750 --> 00:48:36.349
another day. And that's been, it's something that's been brought
1016
00:48:36.389 --> 00:48:38.710
up in best of two out of three falls situations too,
1017
00:48:39.409 --> 00:48:41.130
where it's no, it's okay in the second fall to
1018
00:48:41.170 --> 00:48:43.789
tap out, to tie it, because if you don't, you
1019
00:48:43.809 --> 00:48:46.590
might not have any energy left to fight a third fall. So,
1020
00:48:47.030 --> 00:48:50.369
It makes sense to step out. So own that it's
1021
00:48:50.409 --> 00:48:53.230
different and actually make that a feature, not a flop. Also,
1022
00:48:53.250 --> 00:48:54.889
I think it shouldn't be with the champion in it.
1023
00:48:54.889 --> 00:48:56.780
I think it should be for a contendership. You know,
1024
00:48:56.820 --> 00:48:58.679
I think it should just be you're in a title shot.
1025
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:00.960
I know there's a lot of gimmicky ways to earn
1026
00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:03.280
a title shot, but I would do that or have
1027
00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:06.079
it be for one of the secondary titles and have
1028
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:07.780
it be a signature match for a belt other than
1029
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.360
the world title. I think having the world champ enter it,
1030
00:49:10.389 --> 00:49:11.550
I think, turns some people off.
1031
00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:16.079
Yeah, I felt the same way. I wrote in my article,
1032
00:49:16.550 --> 00:49:19.969
I'll never hate on a promotion for trying something different.
1033
00:49:20.829 --> 00:49:23.389
as long as it's not like you know viagra on
1034
00:49:23.429 --> 00:49:25.269
a pole match you know what i mean it's like
1035
00:49:25.869 --> 00:49:28.860
um you know um or judy bagwell yeah judy bagwell
1036
00:49:28.949 --> 00:49:33.360
yeah on a forklift um yeah uh i i i
1037
00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:35.139
enjoyed the match like i kind of had the same
1038
00:49:35.179 --> 00:49:37.039
thoughts that you did like i think the bones are
1039
00:49:37.059 --> 00:49:40.610
there for something cool something different um doing it with
1040
00:49:40.630 --> 00:49:43.710
the world title on a pay-per-view probably, I think they
1041
00:49:43.730 --> 00:49:46.789
got a little too excited with it. Like, Hey, this
1042
00:49:46.809 --> 00:49:49.150
will be really cool. Let's do this. Um, especially when
1043
00:49:49.190 --> 00:49:51.690
will came up first, I was like, Oh, well, of
1044
00:49:51.809 --> 00:49:56.230
course you came up, um, you know, the, the ending
1045
00:49:56.269 --> 00:49:58.210
was like, I wish they had done something a little
1046
00:49:58.250 --> 00:50:00.670
bit different with the ending to like the, what are
1047
00:50:00.690 --> 00:50:03.789
the odds of a will being able to get the
1048
00:50:03.829 --> 00:50:06.389
three count right with four seconds left. And I wish
1049
00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:08.480
they'd kind of tweak that a little bit, but yeah, no,
1050
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:11.199
I enjoyed that match too. I, I, I think the,
1051
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.260
the structure on like the bones are there for something cool.
1052
00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:20.510
I like the thought of like for a number one contendership. Yeah.
1053
00:50:20.530 --> 00:50:21.329
I felt the same way.
1054
00:50:22.110 --> 00:50:26.610
I think wrestling bookers and producers and wrestlers just run
1055
00:50:26.650 --> 00:50:30.750
their ideas through the filter of, are people going to go,
1056
00:50:31.250 --> 00:50:34.579
what are the odds or how convenient let's find a
1057
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:36.719
different way to do it. Cause there's so many ways
1058
00:50:36.739 --> 00:50:39.940
to tell stories. Don't, settle for, Oh, what are the
1059
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:42.510
odds or how convenient it's like when two wrestlers are
1060
00:50:42.530 --> 00:50:45.090
going to face each other are in a team. And
1061
00:50:45.110 --> 00:50:48.389
then there's a miscommunication and it's easily explained, but a
1062
00:50:48.429 --> 00:50:52.409
normally level headed, smart person who's reasonable acts unreasonable over
1063
00:50:52.690 --> 00:50:55.690
the convenience that they bumped into each other. And now they're,
1064
00:50:55.769 --> 00:50:58.300
they're hotheaded and mad. Like they're just tropes. And there's,
1065
00:50:58.389 --> 00:51:00.599
there's so many ways to tell stories. Look for, just
1066
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:02.519
put a little extra thought into it. We're not asking
1067
00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:05.460
something that can't be done or that gets in the
1068
00:51:05.500 --> 00:51:07.099
way of what you want to do. We're just saying,
1069
00:51:07.469 --> 00:51:10.690
put a little extra effort into making these things feel
1070
00:51:10.730 --> 00:51:14.110
less convenient. Oh, what are the odds? How convenient? You
1071
00:51:14.130 --> 00:51:15.849
don't want that going through your head when you're watching wrestling.
1072
00:51:16.610 --> 00:51:18.670
You get a better experience when it seems like the
1073
00:51:18.690 --> 00:51:22.369
people putting things together make it feel plausible that this
1074
00:51:22.409 --> 00:51:25.750
could be naturally happening. Wrestlers work hard to learn how
1075
00:51:25.789 --> 00:51:29.349
to do moves that look good and sell convincingly. So
1076
00:51:29.670 --> 00:51:33.769
why does the booking and the tropes undercut that? So
1077
00:51:33.789 --> 00:51:35.429
much effort is made to make things look real. If
1078
00:51:35.469 --> 00:51:37.590
that wasn't important, wrestlers wouldn't work hard to make their
1079
00:51:37.630 --> 00:51:39.730
punches look real, but they do. So let's make everything
1080
00:51:39.750 --> 00:51:45.360
else around it feel more realistic, including the rapid-fire pinfalls. Also,
1081
00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:47.079
I wrote about this in the VIP forum earlier today.
1082
00:51:48.539 --> 00:51:51.360
I don't like when something is done, not because it's
1083
00:51:52.539 --> 00:51:54.420
a logical way the fight would play out, but because
1084
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:58.530
it'll add extra excitement to a match. Matches will be
1085
00:51:58.610 --> 00:52:03.829
exciting if all the exciting stuff... It'll be more exciting
1086
00:52:03.849 --> 00:52:06.110
if all the exciting stuff is in a context... that
1087
00:52:06.150 --> 00:52:11.599
has some logic that feels consistent with the normal rules
1088
00:52:11.619 --> 00:52:14.300
of engagement of how things kind of are in wrestling matches.
1089
00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:16.719
You can do a lot of different, you can have
1090
00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:18.900
a lot of different ways that you present wrestling, but
1091
00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:22.760
a promotion on a show should have a certain through
1092
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.289
line of consistency in how they present their product in
1093
00:52:26.369 --> 00:52:32.449
their world. There's different rules for horror movies versus dramas versus,
1094
00:52:32.710 --> 00:52:34.800
I mean, there's just a kind and there's different type
1095
00:52:34.820 --> 00:52:38.059
with Halloween season. There's different kinds of horror movies. They're supernatural.
1096
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:40.300
And then there's slasher movies. And then there's a sub
1097
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:43.780
genre of thrillers and whatever. So they all kind of
1098
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:45.219
have their own set of rules, but you, when you
1099
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:47.070
sit down to watch a movie, you want to see
1100
00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:49.809
that set of rules for that genre applied consistently from
1101
00:52:50.050 --> 00:52:53.210
opening to closing credits. Wrestling could do better. Wrestling could
1102
00:52:53.250 --> 00:52:55.349
do better. It's not just AW. I mean, it's across
1103
00:52:55.389 --> 00:52:57.050
the board. And I think we should ask, we should
1104
00:52:57.309 --> 00:52:59.360
ask for that. It's not, It is not unreasonable for
1105
00:52:59.389 --> 00:53:01.989
wrestling fans to ask for a higher IQ execution of
1106
00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:02.789
these concepts.
1107
00:53:05.030 --> 00:53:05.750
I'm Chris Maitland.
1108
00:53:06.170 --> 00:53:07.150
I'm Justin McClelland.
1109
00:53:07.489 --> 00:53:10.570
We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, a podcast of independent wrestling.
1110
00:53:11.010 --> 00:53:13.210
Every week, Chris and I review a different show or
1111
00:53:13.250 --> 00:53:16.170
talk about important topics from around the indie wrestling world.
1112
00:53:16.510 --> 00:53:19.050
Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main
1113
00:53:19.090 --> 00:53:22.510
eventers before anyone else. You can reach us at TorchCoastToCoast
1114
00:53:22.579 --> 00:53:25.960
at gmail.com and me on Blue Sky at Mind of Maitland.
1115
00:53:26.300 --> 00:53:29.519
You can reach me at BlueSky at Justin McClelland. Find
1116
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:33.219
the show on your PWTorch Daily Cast podcast feed. Search
1117
00:53:33.260 --> 00:53:37.010
PWTorch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
1118
00:53:37.309 --> 00:53:44.630
Also, stream the latest shows on PWTorch.com. Yeah. When I
1119
00:53:44.650 --> 00:53:47.679
was watching the match, when Samoa Joe came in last,
1120
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:50.199
he came in 8th, I just loved the thought of
1121
00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:52.659
someone in the back explaining the match to him and
1122
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:54.219
the rules and him just being like, yeah, that all
1123
00:53:54.239 --> 00:54:00.469
sounds cool. I'll come in 8th. I'm not, I'm not
1124
00:54:00.510 --> 00:54:02.969
doing all that BS before I'll come in a, when
1125
00:54:02.989 --> 00:54:06.829
the match starts, I'll give you 15 minutes. Yup. Yup.
1126
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:12.960
Um, yeah, no, totally. Um, Zach Barber in the chat,
1127
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:14.639
by the way, as far as the scheduling of letting
1128
00:54:14.659 --> 00:54:16.480
guts goes, war games always took place at the same
1129
00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:19.719
time every year, first wrestle war, and then fall brawl. Zach,
1130
00:54:19.739 --> 00:54:21.360
you know this is violating one of the top rules
1131
00:54:21.420 --> 00:54:23.300
of my podcast, which is just because something was done
1132
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:25.260
in the past doesn't mean it's justification to do it
1133
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:29.619
in the future. I mean, if you go back and
1134
00:54:29.659 --> 00:54:31.639
read the back issues, I covered almost every single war
1135
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.090
games that there was. I don't know when the first
1136
00:54:34.110 --> 00:54:38.210
year was, but I was complaining about that then, too.
1137
00:54:38.230 --> 00:54:41.969
How convenient that now we have these two sets of
1138
00:54:42.469 --> 00:54:44.289
four or five wrestlers who want to face each other,
1139
00:54:44.309 --> 00:54:45.750
and the only way to settle it is war games,
1140
00:54:45.809 --> 00:54:49.530
and it happens annually at the same time. So, don't
1141
00:54:49.570 --> 00:54:53.809
do that. Um, Zach, don't, don't use past. Past is
1142
00:54:53.869 --> 00:54:57.309
not justification for, uh, what happens currently. If it was
1143
00:54:57.710 --> 00:55:03.239
kind of dumb, then it's still dumb now. Um, all right. Uh,
1144
00:55:03.389 --> 00:55:07.199
Derek Mitchell, um, says, let me get this up here. Uh,
1145
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.739
war games was invented to stop the four horsemen against
1146
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:13.000
Dusty Nikita and the road workers was a part of
1147
00:55:13.019 --> 00:55:16.199
the great American bash tours in the mid eighties and
1148
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:21.400
WCW bastardized it after that. Yes, we got our I
1149
00:55:21.420 --> 00:55:23.239
need to get another wrestling form back issue. The first
1150
00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:25.480
newsletter I ever got in the mail pre-internet in the
1151
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:28.780
1980s was a wrestling form newsletter. The editor, John Gallagher,
1152
00:55:28.820 --> 00:55:32.219
gave us rights to put them up digitally. And that's
1153
00:55:32.260 --> 00:55:35.480
when I was reading about those summer tours of WCW
1154
00:55:35.500 --> 00:55:37.800
during the Great American Bash summer tours from their stadium
1155
00:55:37.820 --> 00:55:41.739
shows at baseball stadiums. And then war games kind of
1156
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:43.880
came out of that. And it's so exciting to read
1157
00:55:43.900 --> 00:55:46.300
in the newsletter what was happening even before I started
1158
00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.090
the Pursing Torch newsletter. But it inspired me to want
1159
00:55:49.110 --> 00:55:51.719
to do that. I love the idea of giving people
1160
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:54.480
coverage in the pre-internet days of wrestling shows outside of
1161
00:55:54.500 --> 00:55:57.880
their territory. And those summer tours with war games especially
1162
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:02.719
was really fun. All right. Thank you, Derek, as always,
1163
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:06.409
for the history fact there. So, by the way, blotting
1164
00:56:06.429 --> 00:56:08.170
out for those who didn't see the show, you got Darby,
1165
00:56:09.010 --> 00:56:12.210
you got the Young Bucks, Will Ospreay, Stephen Borden and
1166
00:56:12.250 --> 00:56:16.070
Adam Copeland against the Don Callis families, Davis and Doyle,
1167
00:56:16.409 --> 00:56:21.019
Kevin Knight, Kazuchika Okada, Kyle Fletcher, and Wardlow. So that
1168
00:56:21.059 --> 00:56:23.940
is the five on five, and that's happening on November 4th.
1169
00:56:23.980 --> 00:56:29.230
So two weeks on Dynamite. I think I got that right,
1170
00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:29.510
didn't I?
1171
00:56:29.510 --> 00:56:30.250
Yeah.
1172
00:56:30.269 --> 00:56:30.789
Everything right there?
1173
00:56:30.889 --> 00:56:31.050
Okay.
1174
00:56:31.369 --> 00:56:32.570
If I ever get anything wrong, tell me. I don't
1175
00:56:32.630 --> 00:56:35.650
ever want to think that. Sometimes I'll just mindlessly interchange
1176
00:56:35.690 --> 00:56:37.070
a name or say something, and I don't want a
1177
00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:38.659
co-host to be scared or the chat to be scared
1178
00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:40.920
to go, wait, you just said something that isn't right.
1179
00:56:41.780 --> 00:56:46.050
All right. So what was I going to bring up?
1180
00:56:47.110 --> 00:56:51.809
next from this. We haven't covered everything.
1181
00:56:51.909 --> 00:56:52.610
Oh, I know.
1182
00:56:53.170 --> 00:56:56.969
You had alluded to it. Did we have like seven
1183
00:56:57.030 --> 00:57:01.199
turns in one segment with the dogs? I mean, it's fine.
1184
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:04.420
It was chaotic, but a lot happened there. And I
1185
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.039
made note, Orange Cassidy and Jay White against Wheeler Yuta
1186
00:57:07.059 --> 00:57:10.579
and Danny Garcia. We had Wheeler Yuta and Danny as heels,
1187
00:57:10.619 --> 00:57:13.159
and the crowd's chanting, F you, Wheeler. And it's fun
1188
00:57:13.179 --> 00:57:15.000
to chant that. I get that. And Cassidy and Jay
1189
00:57:15.019 --> 00:57:17.570
White were the baby faces here. But it's strange given
1190
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:20.150
the journey John Moxley's been on with the fans lately
1191
00:57:20.710 --> 00:57:23.989
that we're now just back to just treat Garcia and
1192
00:57:24.190 --> 00:57:27.210
Yuta as like these heels we want to see get
1193
00:57:27.230 --> 00:57:31.329
beat up. But by the end of the John Moxley
1194
00:57:31.369 --> 00:57:38.289
Roderick Strong match that came later, things got really reshuffled.
1195
00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:46.780
And so you had multiple turns, new alliances, A lot
1196
00:57:46.820 --> 00:57:50.860
going on. I don't know. Taylor, recap what you thought
1197
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:52.659
of this or tell us what you thought of it.
1198
00:57:53.099 --> 00:57:55.760
And where do you think this goes and what's it
1199
00:57:55.780 --> 00:57:57.260
setting up? And do you approve of it based on
1200
00:57:57.280 --> 00:57:57.920
what we've seen so far?
1201
00:57:58.900 --> 00:58:00.719
So when it first started happening, I was like, are
1202
00:58:00.739 --> 00:58:02.840
they going to have two blood and guts matches?
1203
00:58:02.900 --> 00:58:06.320
I know. I totally thought that too.
1204
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:09.110
Because they normally do the men's and the women's, but
1205
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:10.650
I was like, I don't know if there's even a
1206
00:58:10.699 --> 00:58:13.710
women's blood and guts that they could have. There's really
1207
00:58:13.750 --> 00:58:14.969
nothing really kind of going on there.
1208
00:58:15.050 --> 00:58:15.329
Yeah.
1209
00:58:16.389 --> 00:58:17.989
So I was wondering if they're going to have two
1210
00:58:18.570 --> 00:58:21.010
blood and guts, which I think would be a mistake.
1211
00:58:21.170 --> 00:58:24.610
I don't need two, especially two that have just been
1212
00:58:24.630 --> 00:58:28.110
thrown together two weeks, two weeks ahead.
1213
00:58:28.369 --> 00:58:29.710
A hundred percent.
1214
00:58:29.730 --> 00:58:32.630
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like seeing, I mean, I'm
1215
00:58:32.650 --> 00:58:36.070
a big Jay White fan. I like seeing him in
1216
00:58:36.199 --> 00:58:40.780
a meaningful kind of program. I've been begging at this point,
1217
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:42.420
I think it feels like for years now to get
1218
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.800
him away from this bang bang gang, which I don't think,
1219
00:58:46.530 --> 00:58:52.230
it seems like it's going to happen. Yeah. But I, I,
1220
00:58:52.710 --> 00:58:54.510
I love the little ending though, where it was him
1221
00:58:54.530 --> 00:58:57.500
and Moxley kind of, you know, White was kind of
1222
00:58:57.519 --> 00:58:59.500
going after Moxley there at the end. I don't know.
1223
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:01.619
I was trying to think if they had ever faced
1224
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:05.909
each other one-on-one, I would imagine probably yes. But I
1225
00:59:06.010 --> 00:59:07.710
I'd love to see those two. I would just like,
1226
00:59:08.110 --> 00:59:10.460
I'm just happy that Jay White's back and he's in
1227
00:59:10.539 --> 00:59:14.480
something meaningful and he's going to be on TV, you know,
1228
00:59:14.619 --> 00:59:18.840
even if he's with the dogs and the bang, bang, bang.
1229
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:20.480
What's left of the dogs. Yeah.
1230
00:59:20.900 --> 00:59:23.780
Yeah. I just, him in the mix with Moxley, I
1231
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:24.679
think is, is good.
1232
00:59:25.699 --> 00:59:29.199
Is Moxley, Marina Shafir standing up to Mercedes, which we'll
1233
00:59:29.219 --> 00:59:33.519
get to, and then this angle with Gabe Kidd kind
1234
00:59:33.539 --> 00:59:38.179
of officially joining the Death Riders, either officially aligned or
1235
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:41.929
an official member. I don't know if they'll establish that. Whatever.
1236
00:59:42.610 --> 00:59:45.550
It's not essential, but it's just a detail. Are the
1237
00:59:45.570 --> 00:59:49.989
Death Riders now babyfaces? Has this kind of shifted them
1238
00:59:50.130 --> 00:59:53.989
to that spot? And are fans going to still chant,
1239
00:59:54.429 --> 00:59:58.590
F you, you'd F you, you'd, uh, at him. Um,
1240
00:59:58.809 --> 01:00:01.570
but you know, like angle sucks way, but that's affectionate
1241
01:00:01.630 --> 01:00:03.329
and we, we love you, but we still say this.
1242
01:00:04.030 --> 01:00:06.949
Yeah. I, I don't think it is. I just don't
1243
01:00:06.969 --> 01:00:10.610
think Willie Uter and Daniel Garcia are ever going to
1244
01:00:10.659 --> 01:00:12.489
come on. I mean, they can try to, they can make,
1245
01:00:12.530 --> 01:00:15.099
put them in the baby face spot. I just don't
1246
01:00:15.139 --> 01:00:17.079
think they're ever going to be, you're never going to
1247
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:20.579
get the fans to get on their side, but especially,
1248
01:00:20.900 --> 01:00:23.400
especially Uta. I mean, they've, You've already done that with
1249
01:00:23.420 --> 01:00:27.159
Garcia so many times, you know, trying to make him
1250
01:00:27.179 --> 01:00:29.590
the scrappy underdog and get the fans behind him. And
1251
01:00:29.610 --> 01:00:32.309
it just hasn't worked. He's, he's better in the spot
1252
01:00:32.349 --> 01:00:35.750
that he is now as kind of like, you know,
1253
01:00:36.090 --> 01:00:39.030
the yappy dog in the back, just kind of barking with.
1254
01:00:38.929 --> 01:00:42.710
The big dog in front of him.
1255
01:00:43.510 --> 01:00:46.210
So, yeah, I, I don't know that those death drives, man,
1256
01:00:46.250 --> 01:00:48.570
they just live in a kind of their own, And
1257
01:00:48.710 --> 01:00:49.989
I know you hate it, but they kind of just
1258
01:00:50.010 --> 01:00:51.829
live in their own little world of their own where
1259
01:00:51.849 --> 01:00:55.469
they're just– which I'm not a fan of either. I
1260
01:00:55.510 --> 01:01:00.460
feel like, you know, especially Leon. Moxley is basically just
1261
01:01:00.659 --> 01:01:04.639
a babyface at this point. I mean, especially after WrestleDream where,
1262
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.239
you know, he's basically– I thought he was going to quit.
1263
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:09.130
I mean, he had me. I thought he was getting
1264
01:01:09.150 --> 01:01:10.510
ready to quit when he was on the outside of
1265
01:01:10.530 --> 01:01:13.530
the ring. Yeah, I know. He totally had me. Yeah.
1266
01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:18.599
And when Connors and Finley attacked his opponent, Roderick Strong,
1267
01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:21.320
after Moxley beat him, Mox slid into the ring and
1268
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:24.929
backed them away. I mean, that was the most clearly
1269
01:01:24.969 --> 01:01:28.389
babyface thing he's done. Other things are like, I'm sympathizing
1270
01:01:28.429 --> 01:01:31.070
with him. I feel for him. He's cool. I like
1271
01:01:31.090 --> 01:01:36.610
what he's saying. But that was just straightforward, timeless 1962, 1974, 1987.
1272
01:01:36.610 --> 01:01:45.500
That is a babyface move wherever it happens. I guess
1273
01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:48.480
heel if we want to say that or whatever whatever
1274
01:01:48.739 --> 01:01:51.400
Moxley had he could have just walked away said not
1275
01:01:51.460 --> 01:01:54.320
my business and he didn't he put himself at risk
1276
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:55.849
and he went in there did the right thing stood
1277
01:01:55.869 --> 01:01:58.030
up for somebody who wasn't even his friend but he
1278
01:01:58.070 --> 01:02:00.590
knew it was something that was wrong so to me
1279
01:02:01.429 --> 01:02:03.469
I think the Death Riders are officially baby faces as
1280
01:02:03.530 --> 01:02:05.769
of tonight chat you let us know what your interpretation
1281
01:02:06.030 --> 01:02:09.889
is but yeah Ducky D says the Death Riders are
1282
01:02:09.909 --> 01:02:12.219
the Death Riders nobody's confused about where they stand except
1283
01:02:12.300 --> 01:02:17.809
wrestling analysts I don't think we're confused about where they stand.
1284
01:02:17.829 --> 01:02:19.989
We're just, I mean, but clearly tonight was a shift
1285
01:02:20.530 --> 01:02:24.019
away from a mild ambiguity where you just kind of
1286
01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:27.199
react how you want inconsistently to each member. And now
1287
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:31.119
they stand for something that is clearly set up in
1288
01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:35.110
the booking now opposite of a heel group who acted
1289
01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:37.590
in a consistent heel way and the Death Riders acted
1290
01:02:37.630 --> 01:02:40.610
in a consistent baby face way. So before it was,
1291
01:02:40.650 --> 01:02:44.519
there was never confusion. It was being sort of confounded
1292
01:02:44.539 --> 01:02:47.480
uh by like what are they doing here we want
1293
01:02:47.500 --> 01:02:50.539
to like them but they keep giving us interference with
1294
01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:53.559
those emotions um so it's more of a criticism than
1295
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:57.130
confusion ducky d um standard deviation says i was pleased
1296
01:02:57.150 --> 01:02:58.429
with the heat at the end of that segment i
1297
01:02:58.469 --> 01:03:02.769
suspect they're heating up jay for will it's a fan
1298
01:03:02.829 --> 01:03:04.550
yeah i was gonna say as a fan of his
1299
01:03:04.590 --> 01:03:06.329
are you excited about that yeah.
1300
01:03:06.150 --> 01:03:08.699
I i love that i mean i i i i
1301
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:10.800
just you know it's so it's been so like stop
1302
01:03:10.820 --> 01:03:13.019
start with him every time he gets something going he
1303
01:03:13.530 --> 01:03:15.309
gets hurt and it's just like ah man like i
1304
01:03:15.349 --> 01:03:16.739
don't know he's just one of those guys i root
1305
01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:20.000
for i i just you just have your guys you
1306
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.019
know he's just one of my he's just kind of
1307
01:03:22.059 --> 01:03:24.139
one of my guys i i always root for i
1308
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:26.840
just really hope that now that like the dogs and
1309
01:03:26.860 --> 01:03:29.570
the bang bang gang together please don't do bullet club
1310
01:03:29.590 --> 01:03:32.210
stuff just please let it let it lie just don't
1311
01:03:32.309 --> 01:03:35.769
i don't want to hear anything bullet club i know
1312
01:03:36.030 --> 01:03:40.449
i just let it go please please let it go.
1313
01:03:41.340 --> 01:03:44.429
Yes So I like in the chat, I'm just noticing
1314
01:03:44.929 --> 01:03:49.440
we had Derek Mitchell recap things like what happened for us. Oh,
1315
01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:51.139
first of all, a quick note. Derek Mitchell did say
1316
01:03:51.219 --> 01:03:53.260
Mox and Jay White faced off in the Continental Classic.
1317
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:54.059
That makes sense.
1318
01:03:54.619 --> 01:03:56.639
I remember that match. That was a great match. Yeah,
1319
01:03:56.760 --> 01:03:57.519
I actually remember that.
1320
01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:03.320
Thanks, Derek. So then he says, I don't feel like
1321
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:05.869
Will is. Oh, no, I'm sorry. That's a different comment.
1322
01:04:05.909 --> 01:04:07.969
The dogs attacked Mox and turned on Kid and merged
1323
01:04:07.989 --> 01:04:09.849
with the Bang Bang Gang, who turned heel officially to
1324
01:04:09.869 --> 01:04:15.289
make the Death Riders baby faces. Then, just to keep count,
1325
01:04:15.369 --> 01:04:19.190
Derek says, it's the Dogs and the Bang Bang Gang,
1326
01:04:19.210 --> 01:04:22.570
which is Jay White, David Finlay, Clark Connors, Juice Robinson,
1327
01:04:22.650 --> 01:04:27.690
Ace Austin, and the Guns. So, you'll be quizzed later, everybody.
1328
01:04:29.889 --> 01:04:32.050
And Zach goes, are they going to revive the Bullet
1329
01:04:32.070 --> 01:04:33.449
Club name now? Question mark?
1330
01:04:33.889 --> 01:04:34.110
Please.
1331
01:04:34.869 --> 01:04:36.670
Ducky D says, as far as Wheeler Yuta goes, it
1332
01:04:36.710 --> 01:04:38.590
doesn't matter if Wheeler Yuta cures cancer. The crowd will
1333
01:04:38.610 --> 01:04:39.309
still say F.U.
1334
01:04:39.369 --> 01:04:39.670
Yuta.
1335
01:04:39.929 --> 01:04:41.409
I'm not sure this is a good indication that he's
1336
01:04:41.469 --> 01:04:46.599
framed as a heel anymore. I mean, it's like fans
1337
01:04:46.619 --> 01:04:49.340
love chanting you suck at Kurt Angle. Like, I mean,
1338
01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:52.960
like it could be a term of endearment, dare we say,
1339
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:55.920
with the A.W. fans to chant F.U. Yuta. And he
1340
01:04:56.239 --> 01:04:58.929
pretends to act upset, but they actually kind of just
1341
01:04:59.070 --> 01:05:00.429
like doing it. And I don't know. I mean, I
1342
01:05:00.449 --> 01:05:04.460
think there's actually a way to pull that off. Only
1343
01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:05.360
in pro wrestling.
1344
01:05:05.900 --> 01:05:08.619
Yeah. Yeah.
1345
01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:12.329
Ducky D says they've done this before against the Don
1346
01:05:12.349 --> 01:05:14.610
Cal's family. They cheat. They don't fight for fans' cheers,
1347
01:05:14.650 --> 01:05:17.170
but they have been getting them consistently for like 11 months.
1348
01:05:17.469 --> 01:05:19.329
Nothing has changed in my opinion. Do you agree with that, Taylor?
1349
01:05:19.630 --> 01:05:21.530
Ducky D's saying nothing's changed with the Death Riders, the
1350
01:05:21.550 --> 01:05:23.809
way Moxley stood up for Roderick Strong tonight, and they
1351
01:05:23.829 --> 01:05:27.840
all aligned against a heel group. I mean, Ducky D's right.
1352
01:05:27.860 --> 01:05:29.099
I mean, there was a time where he thought, well,
1353
01:05:29.139 --> 01:05:31.619
for sure they're babyfaces, but then there's just been mixed
1354
01:05:31.659 --> 01:05:35.900
signals everywhere. After that, including tonight with Garcia and Yuta
1355
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:36.820
being against babyfaces.
1356
01:05:37.300 --> 01:05:40.480
Yeah, I mean, I just think it's just been mixed
1357
01:05:40.500 --> 01:05:42.489
signals with them for so long. I think the fans
1358
01:05:42.550 --> 01:05:45.010
are just probably at this point like, we love Mox.
1359
01:05:45.730 --> 01:05:49.010
We hate Yuta and Garcia. We like Claudio. This is
1360
01:05:49.030 --> 01:05:50.489
who we're going to cheer for. We're going to boo
1361
01:05:50.530 --> 01:05:51.329
them no matter what.
1362
01:05:54.989 --> 01:05:59.900
Yeah, I think it's... Dougie says, Mox has always respected
1363
01:05:59.940 --> 01:06:03.070
an opponent who gave him a good fight. Saturday deviation
1364
01:06:03.110 --> 01:06:06.090
says I viewed Moxley as a baby face since world's end. Well,
1365
01:06:06.110 --> 01:06:08.219
the rest of the group remained heels. Well, yes, but
1366
01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:09.880
you shouldn't have a top baby face hanging out with
1367
01:06:10.300 --> 01:06:14.000
heels acting like heels. Uh, Mark Buschetti says, yeah, Mox
1368
01:06:14.019 --> 01:06:15.219
seemed like he was going to break away from the
1369
01:06:15.260 --> 01:06:17.099
death riders, but now it seems like he's solid in
1370
01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:19.320
the group again. I do wonder if there's going to
1371
01:06:19.340 --> 01:06:21.760
be something with POC that was going to happen and
1372
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:24.440
they had to recalibrate everything. Um, if he was going
1373
01:06:24.460 --> 01:06:25.139
to break from them.
1374
01:06:25.300 --> 01:06:28.469
Yeah. Yeah. As I always thought, uh, when, when, when
1375
01:06:28.530 --> 01:06:31.440
POC came back this last time, um, And he was
1376
01:06:31.460 --> 01:06:33.880
putting on great matches and phenomenal promos. And he was
1377
01:06:33.980 --> 01:06:37.000
really like kind of sinister. I thought that's when they
1378
01:06:37.019 --> 01:06:38.360
were going to do it. And I think everybody thought
1379
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:40.659
that's when it was coming. And then it just never,
1380
01:06:41.050 --> 01:06:43.469
it just never happened. They just never did it. Yeah.
1381
01:06:44.230 --> 01:06:46.309
Zach Barber says, I love this segment. I wrote in
1382
01:06:46.329 --> 01:06:48.030
my column that the death rider should split from the
1383
01:06:48.070 --> 01:06:51.869
dogs and be baby faces. And we got both. Zach,
1384
01:06:51.909 --> 01:06:58.079
are you booking? Are you booking AW? If so, nice. Uh,
1385
01:06:58.139 --> 01:07:00.239
let's see. Oh, and, and Derek Mitchell did note with,
1386
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:03.420
with Pac, uh, passing, it has changed the sentiment of
1387
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:07.179
the fans have got behind them. Um, yeah, I mean,
1388
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:10.880
it's hard with what Moxley has shown emotionally. Um, it
1389
01:07:10.900 --> 01:07:13.519
would have been, there'd have been such a headwind, um,
1390
01:07:13.900 --> 01:07:16.489
to try to portray them as to try to portray
1391
01:07:16.630 --> 01:07:19.389
Moxley as a villain in any way. People aren't going
1392
01:07:19.409 --> 01:07:20.010
to boo that guy.
1393
01:07:20.190 --> 01:07:23.639
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
1394
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:28.219
So Mercedes brought her up. She came out to celebrate
1395
01:07:28.300 --> 01:07:32.179
her win, said who's next. And Marina Shafir came out
1396
01:07:32.519 --> 01:07:33.940
and they had a stare down the highlight. One of
1397
01:07:33.960 --> 01:07:35.340
the highlights of the show was a highlight. It was
1398
01:07:35.380 --> 01:07:39.539
just John Moxley at ringside. Whoa. You know, like that
1399
01:07:39.579 --> 01:07:40.179
was really fun.
1400
01:07:41.579 --> 01:07:41.900
So, yeah.
1401
01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:44.900
Well, what do you think of the Mercedes segment? As always,
1402
01:07:44.940 --> 01:07:45.980
she dressed the part.
1403
01:07:46.059 --> 01:07:46.199
She.
1404
01:07:46.869 --> 01:07:49.889
It carries herself like a star, but did you like her, her,
1405
01:07:50.170 --> 01:07:52.699
her mic work with Renee? And then after she shoot
1406
01:07:52.739 --> 01:07:53.320
Renee out of the ring.
1407
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:55.960
Yeah. I mean, this is the, this is the Mercedes
1408
01:07:55.980 --> 01:07:59.840
that I like just kind of like the, the total asshole.
1409
01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:04.199
This is what I, this is the Mercedes that I love.
1410
01:08:04.340 --> 01:08:04.960
No ambiguity.
1411
01:08:05.099 --> 01:08:08.800
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when Marina came out, for me,
1412
01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:11.619
it was a little bit like, you know what I mean?
1413
01:08:11.719 --> 01:08:14.909
I was kind of expecting, I was hoping for somebody,
1414
01:08:15.550 --> 01:08:19.689
you know, different um i think we've kind of seen
1415
01:08:19.710 --> 01:08:23.850
what marina i think she kind of plays kind of
1416
01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:26.439
like the china role a little bit better i guess
1417
01:08:26.939 --> 01:08:29.840
of like kind of the enforcer uh on the side
1418
01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.340
more than actually getting in the ring and putting on
1419
01:08:32.819 --> 01:08:35.659
you know a match um so yeah i was a
1420
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:38.539
little disappointed that it was uh marina.
1421
01:08:40.329 --> 01:08:43.109
Before pushing play on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows,
1422
01:08:43.149 --> 01:08:46.960
check out PWTorch.com and our TV review section and skim
1423
01:08:46.979 --> 01:08:49.020
through a full rundown of the TV show. If you
1424
01:08:49.060 --> 01:08:50.979
didn't see it, that's your way to get an overview
1425
01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:55.069
of what happened before you dive into our in-depth analysis
1426
01:08:55.250 --> 01:08:58.510
of the key happenings on the show. That's PWTorch.com, your
1427
01:08:58.550 --> 01:09:02.039
home for live TV content. every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
1428
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:04.300
with my TV reports. And also check out our NXT
1429
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:07.100
and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports
1430
01:09:07.140 --> 01:09:09.079
on Saturday nights, and of course our live pay-per-view and
1431
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:13.479
PLE coverage on weekends. All waiting for you at PWTorch.com.
1432
01:09:15.500 --> 01:09:18.199
I was hoping that, this kind of goes back to
1433
01:09:18.229 --> 01:09:20.949
my thought with Tekla, um, I was hoping maybe they're
1434
01:09:20.970 --> 01:09:23.210
going to do one more run with, with Mercedes and Tecla.
1435
01:09:24.689 --> 01:09:26.630
I was hoping that like Tecla is going to come
1436
01:09:26.689 --> 01:09:28.710
out and attack her from behind maybe, and just kind of,
1437
01:09:28.970 --> 01:09:30.890
you know, heat that up for a little bit more,
1438
01:09:30.930 --> 01:09:33.560
but I don't know. Something weird's there with those two.
1439
01:09:34.029 --> 01:09:37.319
I feel like, so I don't know. We'll see, you know,
1440
01:09:38.760 --> 01:09:40.420
kind of just like a placeholder. I feel like right
1441
01:09:40.460 --> 01:09:42.319
now until they're getting to what they really want to
1442
01:09:42.340 --> 01:09:45.000
get to with Mercedes. Part of me in the back
1443
01:09:45.039 --> 01:09:49.020
of my brain was like, and I was like, it's
1444
01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:54.079
Tony storm coming. Oh yeah. It's like, um, just the
1445
01:09:54.100 --> 01:09:55.239
way they did it. And it was kind of the
1446
01:09:55.260 --> 01:09:57.739
long pause. Like no one really knows what's going on
1447
01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.680
with Tony. Um, everything was like, it's going to be
1448
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:04.020
till next year. I thought maybe, uh, you know, maybe
1449
01:10:04.399 --> 01:10:05.359
it's how long has it been?
1450
01:10:06.579 --> 01:10:07.279
How long has it been now?
1451
01:10:08.380 --> 01:10:12.060
I feel like it's been, I don't know, nine months, eight, nine,
1452
01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:12.539
eight months.
1453
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:16.050
Um, I mean, I feel like if it's, yeah, I
1454
01:10:16.060 --> 01:10:18.069
think it'll probably be about a year.
1455
01:10:19.140 --> 01:10:19.399
Yeah.
1456
01:10:19.560 --> 01:10:23.699
I mean, if it's, yeah, it's at least not, you know, whatever.
1457
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:27.140
I mean, it's, it's her, it's her personal situation and
1458
01:10:27.180 --> 01:10:30.229
people aren't talking about it, but I, I, yeah, it could,
1459
01:10:30.390 --> 01:10:32.069
it could, I don't know the exact timeline, but it
1460
01:10:32.090 --> 01:10:34.710
could be any, any time, almost any time now. I
1461
01:10:34.770 --> 01:10:36.350
am a fan of the Marina Shafir thing though. I,
1462
01:10:36.470 --> 01:10:38.630
I mean, I like, I like her. I think she,
1463
01:10:38.670 --> 01:10:42.130
there's some cachet there. I don't think you're what you
1464
01:10:42.170 --> 01:10:44.939
said about her is true, but I also think it's fine.
1465
01:10:45.020 --> 01:10:47.319
Like I think her just stand up to Mercedes who's
1466
01:10:47.340 --> 01:10:50.539
super cocky and, And Marina's a badass, and she's got
1467
01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.810
the credibility of the Death Riders and Jon Moxley behind her.
1468
01:10:52.819 --> 01:10:54.859
I just think people want to see Marina beat up Mercedes,
1469
01:10:54.899 --> 01:10:57.199
even if ultimately she loses in the end. I think
1470
01:10:57.220 --> 01:10:58.979
people are going to be there for it. I think
1471
01:10:59.020 --> 01:11:03.590
it's fine. I mean, not every opponent has to be A-level.
1472
01:11:03.609 --> 01:11:05.130
I think they might win and have a long reign,
1473
01:11:05.189 --> 01:11:10.329
like you felt with Toni Storm. I don't want them
1474
01:11:10.369 --> 01:11:12.649
to cool off Willow entirely, either, though. You want to
1475
01:11:12.670 --> 01:11:18.640
still have You don't want to seem like you're just
1476
01:11:18.659 --> 01:11:21.180
cycling through and forgetting about. What do you think of
1477
01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:23.420
the angle backstage, though, with Tackler with Line of Cross
1478
01:11:23.460 --> 01:11:25.079
and the Sisters of Sin beating it on the Brawling
1479
01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:27.520
Birds and Statlander and Cameron? And then Excalibur said, what
1480
01:11:27.539 --> 01:11:28.960
does that mean for full gear? Because they had set
1481
01:11:28.979 --> 01:11:32.180
up a match with the Birds against Harley and Statlander.
1482
01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:36.149
And now it seemed like Excalibur saying, is that going
1483
01:11:36.159 --> 01:11:37.439
to happen or is it going to be different? Are
1484
01:11:37.470 --> 01:11:41.869
we going to get a three-way tag or an eight-woman tag?
1485
01:11:42.090 --> 01:11:44.970
Or what do you extrapolate? What comes out of that?
1486
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.239
Yeah, I mean, I wonder if they're going to have
1487
01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:51.579
Tecla kind of get involved with the women's tag titles now.
1488
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:56.319
That was kind of my thought. She's too good to
1489
01:11:56.359 --> 01:11:58.979
keep her off TV. You know what I mean? I
1490
01:11:59.010 --> 01:12:01.930
was worried that AEW might do that thing where someone
1491
01:12:01.949 --> 01:12:04.069
loses and they go away. I was worried they were
1492
01:12:04.090 --> 01:12:06.569
going to do that with Nick Wayne, too. I was
1493
01:12:06.890 --> 01:12:08.550
really happy to see Nick Wayne on TV tonight. I
1494
01:12:08.569 --> 01:12:10.010
got a little nervous that they were going to do
1495
01:12:10.989 --> 01:12:13.489
the kind of thing they do where they have a
1496
01:12:13.510 --> 01:12:16.000
moment and they go away for a bit. Mm-hmm. Yeah,
1497
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:18.159
I'd like to see Tekla kind of get involved in
1498
01:12:18.300 --> 01:12:21.779
that tag title kind of realm. I'd like to see
1499
01:12:21.800 --> 01:12:25.319
her and Jamie Hayter and could put on some good
1500
01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:26.159
promo battles there.
1501
01:12:27.020 --> 01:12:30.720
Yeah. Zach Barber, by the way, endorses Marina Shafir. I
1502
01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:33.890
call this one. Marina versus Mercedes should be awesome. I say, Zach,
1503
01:12:33.930 --> 01:12:39.989
you're booking. You're booking it. Yeah. Let's see. I was
1504
01:12:40.010 --> 01:12:43.699
going to say something else about... Derek Mitchell noted her
1505
01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:49.000
last Tony's last appearance date was in March of last
1506
01:12:49.039 --> 01:12:52.619
year so we're at about the seven month mark I
1507
01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:54.880
guess April May June July September October yeah so we're
1508
01:12:54.899 --> 01:12:57.979
about seven months in it was at Revolution on March
1509
01:12:58.159 --> 01:13:00.039
18th so yeah we gotta wait we probably have a
1510
01:13:00.060 --> 01:13:02.539
little ways to go depending on you know everything that
1511
01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:09.289
that is happening all right um oh Chris Jericho Nick
1512
01:13:09.310 --> 01:13:13.199
Wayne um We've got Nick Wayne showing up in a
1513
01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:20.010
white limo. Jericho's on the trailer behind him outside the arena.
1514
01:13:20.609 --> 01:13:24.829
Struts out, hams it up. If you don't like him,
1515
01:13:24.970 --> 01:13:26.430
that's not a reason to take him off the air.
1516
01:13:27.029 --> 01:13:28.350
You're supposed to not like him.
1517
01:13:28.550 --> 01:13:30.310
He's playing as.
1518
01:13:30.630 --> 01:13:33.350
We've all known somebody like that. I mean, we've all
1519
01:13:33.369 --> 01:13:35.250
known somebody like that. We're like, I can't wait for
1520
01:13:35.289 --> 01:13:38.470
this guy to get shown up and have life slap
1521
01:13:38.510 --> 01:13:41.699
him across the face that, you know, He's got life
1522
01:13:41.720 --> 01:13:44.079
figured out. He's got a lot coming his way. I
1523
01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:45.600
think he's playing that well. I thought this was his
1524
01:13:45.659 --> 01:13:51.100
best performance because I think his prior work, his facial
1525
01:13:51.119 --> 01:13:54.850
expressions were exaggerated in a way that felt like it
1526
01:13:54.970 --> 01:13:58.329
wasn't intended, but it was just bad acting or a
1527
01:13:58.369 --> 01:14:02.670
little try hard. This felt like a guy you want
1528
01:14:02.710 --> 01:14:05.430
to pay to see get bumped all over the ring
1529
01:14:05.449 --> 01:14:09.729
and beat up. What The downside is Jericho wasn't, I mean,
1530
01:14:09.750 --> 01:14:11.840
the crowd sort of sang for him, but Copeland's kind
1531
01:14:11.850 --> 01:14:13.350
of taken it over. I just imagine, I wrote this
1532
01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:17.399
in my report, I imagine Jericho just has to have
1533
01:14:17.420 --> 01:14:21.380
something to bite on backstage when everyone's singing a Copeland song,
1534
01:14:21.420 --> 01:14:23.880
or he's got chopsticks or pencils and he's just breaking
1535
01:14:23.899 --> 01:14:25.840
them out of stress relief, like, he stole my gimmick,
1536
01:14:25.859 --> 01:14:28.300
the fans are into him more than me. That's supposed
1537
01:14:28.319 --> 01:14:30.880
to be me out there. But I will say, say
1538
01:14:30.899 --> 01:14:31.960
what you will about Jericho, and there's a lot you
1539
01:14:31.979 --> 01:14:35.880
can say. I think he played his role really well here,
1540
01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:38.529
and I think he has in this feud. Um, he
1541
01:14:38.590 --> 01:14:41.510
seems like he's trying to re earn lost goodwill.
1542
01:14:41.529 --> 01:14:42.380
Yeah.
1543
01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:47.920
And I think the bit of, I think he played
1544
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:50.500
off of Nick Wayne in a way that I have
1545
01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:54.579
no critique. Jericho has been a masterful performer, reinvented himself.
1546
01:14:55.039 --> 01:14:57.659
There's a lot of, uh, a smart ring psychology, high
1547
01:14:57.680 --> 01:15:01.189
wrestling IQ, um, all of that. And I thought that
1548
01:15:01.270 --> 01:15:03.649
was present here. The problem is the fans still aren't
1549
01:15:03.750 --> 01:15:06.789
that into him. Um, you know, they didn't pop at
1550
01:15:06.949 --> 01:15:09.270
certain times. I didn't think it was, he died out there,
1551
01:15:09.329 --> 01:15:11.590
but it wasn't like, yeah, you get them Jericho. So
1552
01:15:12.050 --> 01:15:14.210
it's still a work in progress. So Taylor, what, tell
1553
01:15:14.229 --> 01:15:15.789
me what you thought of the segment pro and con.
1554
01:15:16.510 --> 01:15:20.789
Yeah, I loved it. Um, you know, I, I wrote
1555
01:15:20.829 --> 01:15:26.899
in my article, Nick, Nick Wayne is slowly growing on me. Um, I, I,
1556
01:15:27.079 --> 01:15:28.539
and one of my favorite things is wrestling when you
1557
01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:31.420
can kind of see a young guy, it's starting to
1558
01:15:31.460 --> 01:15:34.420
click and it's, you can really see it. And I
1559
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:37.380
felt tonight was his best performance as well. I felt
1560
01:15:37.399 --> 01:15:39.939
like he was confident. I felt like he knew that
1561
01:15:40.039 --> 01:15:43.920
he had the crowd. I loved when he kept cutting
1562
01:15:43.979 --> 01:15:47.079
off Jericho, when Jericho would go to apologize. And even
1563
01:15:47.119 --> 01:15:48.979
after the second or third time, you could kind of
1564
01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:50.859
see a look on Jericho's face that he was really
1565
01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:53.800
enjoying watching him do that. You know what I mean?
1566
01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:56.760
You could see he was like, all right, this kid,
1567
01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:59.000
this is good. This kid is starting. This is really
1568
01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:02.720
good stuff. Yeah, I love the pyro bit. It's just...
1569
01:16:03.619 --> 01:16:05.479
I love the shirt he had, but like, it was
1570
01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:10.069
like the WCW nitro font. It was just like, I
1571
01:16:10.109 --> 01:16:12.489
really enjoy this. I think Jericho has done a really,
1572
01:16:12.810 --> 01:16:16.270
really good job with them. I, I, I, but the
1573
01:16:16.289 --> 01:16:19.270
thing is now like build off this, give them reps.
1574
01:16:19.489 --> 01:16:21.689
You know what I mean? You can kind of see
1575
01:16:21.750 --> 01:16:24.630
something starting there. Keep them on TV, give them reps,
1576
01:16:24.689 --> 01:16:26.329
keep putting a mic in his hand, you know, get
1577
01:16:26.350 --> 01:16:27.979
them out there, get them in front of the crowd,
1578
01:16:28.029 --> 01:16:30.000
make the crowd hate them. You know what I mean?
1579
01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:32.079
Make them Dominic Mysterio. You know what I mean? You
1580
01:16:32.100 --> 01:16:37.159
could like, you could, You know, so yeah, I'm really
1581
01:16:37.239 --> 01:16:39.739
into this. This is one of my favorite segments of
1582
01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:40.380
the night on the show.
1583
01:16:41.180 --> 01:16:43.600
Do you like the pyro thing? Is that sustainable? Or
1584
01:16:43.659 --> 01:16:45.140
would that kind of wear out its welcome?
1585
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:47.939
It's going to wear out its welcome. I think they get,
1586
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:51.579
you know, I wouldn't be, he can't do it with everybody. Like,
1587
01:16:52.140 --> 01:16:54.439
I think this might be, I think tonight might be
1588
01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:58.989
the night. You know, it worked with Jericho. It was funny.
1589
01:16:59.010 --> 01:17:02.090
He can't, you know, he can't go now, you know, fight.
1590
01:17:02.890 --> 01:17:05.270
I don't know. go get a win off Samoa Joe.
1591
01:17:05.449 --> 01:17:07.789
And now, you know, Nick went and beat Samoa Joe
1592
01:17:07.869 --> 01:17:09.550
and he does the pyro. It just, it isn't going to,
1593
01:17:09.890 --> 01:17:13.750
it worked with Jericho, you know, because, um, but I,
1594
01:17:14.029 --> 01:17:15.140
I wouldn't beat it into the ground.
1595
01:17:16.100 --> 01:17:16.279
Yeah.
1596
01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:17.039
Yeah.
1597
01:17:17.699 --> 01:17:20.840
Uh, Zach Barber consistent. If nothing else goes, uh, please
1598
01:17:20.859 --> 01:17:22.539
let this be the last time we see Jericho for
1599
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:25.220
a while, please. Um, what, what, what, how do you
1600
01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:27.829
feel about Jericho in this and after this?
1601
01:17:29.270 --> 01:17:31.609
So I actually, I put him, I, when I talked
1602
01:17:31.649 --> 01:17:34.909
about the, the match, uh, at the pay-per-view in my article,
1603
01:17:34.930 --> 01:17:37.289
I said, and where do we go from here? I said, I'm,
1604
01:17:37.470 --> 01:17:39.850
I'm good now with seeing Jer. I'm good now until
1605
01:17:39.869 --> 01:17:42.569
like the first of the year with Jericho, like take
1606
01:17:42.609 --> 01:17:45.640
the holidays off, see you in the first of the year.
1607
01:17:46.229 --> 01:17:48.100
See what, see what we can do there. Um, leave
1608
01:17:48.140 --> 01:17:49.279
on a high note. You know what I mean? Uh,
1609
01:17:50.020 --> 01:17:53.140
you know, do the old George Costanza, always leave him
1610
01:17:53.180 --> 01:17:59.060
wanting more. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I, yeah, I don't,
1611
01:17:59.100 --> 01:18:01.220
I don't think he should go into something right away. Um,
1612
01:18:02.380 --> 01:18:03.840
but I think he earned a little bit of goodwill
1613
01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:06.779
back after this one, you know, let, let people miss you.
1614
01:18:06.970 --> 01:18:09.489
You know what I mean? You know, that's kind of
1615
01:18:09.689 --> 01:18:10.310
how I feel about it.
1616
01:18:11.689 --> 01:18:13.689
If he waits too long though, he just is getting older.
1617
01:18:14.909 --> 01:18:15.149
Yeah.
1618
01:18:15.329 --> 01:18:15.569
Yeah.
1619
01:18:15.750 --> 01:18:18.470
I mean, a month or two is all right. Okay.
1620
01:18:18.489 --> 01:18:18.810
Fair enough.
1621
01:18:18.829 --> 01:18:18.930
Yeah.
1622
01:18:19.210 --> 01:18:20.090
Yeah. Yeah.
1623
01:18:20.770 --> 01:18:22.689
Can't, you can't take like six years off and come back.
1624
01:18:22.989 --> 01:18:26.020
No, no. Oh God. I, geez.
1625
01:18:26.060 --> 01:18:28.699
I'm exaggerating, but yeah. So some comments on, on both
1626
01:18:28.720 --> 01:18:31.920
Jericho and Nick Wayne in the chat. Um, Ducky D says,
1627
01:18:32.260 --> 01:18:34.079
I'd honestly take Jericho reading a phone book in the
1628
01:18:34.100 --> 01:18:36.590
ring before another Nick Wayne promo. I can't stand anything
1629
01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:38.250
he's doing besides his ring work. He needs to go
1630
01:18:38.310 --> 01:18:42.930
back to the lab. Um, and Sanitation says when Nick
1631
01:18:42.970 --> 01:18:46.710
paused before speaking, it reminded me of Dom, but without
1632
01:18:46.810 --> 01:18:49.250
the crowd response. Let's see if the crowd learns to boo.
1633
01:18:49.310 --> 01:18:50.680
If he keeps raising his hand. the mic to his
1634
01:18:50.739 --> 01:18:53.920
mouth and weights, Zach Barber says, Nick Wayne is getting
1635
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:55.779
better each week. He's a great, he's great in ring
1636
01:18:55.819 --> 01:18:57.380
and he's got the cocky punk thing down to a
1637
01:18:57.439 --> 01:19:00.260
T separate him from Jericho. Now for the love of
1638
01:19:00.439 --> 01:19:04.060
all that's good. And holy, uh, Derek Mitchell says, I
1639
01:19:04.060 --> 01:19:05.979
don't want to make WWE comparisons, but I know I'd
1640
01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:10.119
never think Nick Wayne is ahead of Dominic right now. Um,
1641
01:19:10.800 --> 01:19:11.819
but I'll never say.
1642
01:19:11.659 --> 01:19:13.779
He's definitely not ahead of him. Not, not by a
1643
01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:17.010
long shot, but that same vibe of like, when he
1644
01:19:17.090 --> 01:19:22.029
comes out immediately booed, you know, just like get this guy.
1645
01:19:22.170 --> 01:19:22.630
Out of here.
1646
01:19:23.050 --> 01:19:25.069
Um, the one thing that he does though, that I,
1647
01:19:25.210 --> 01:19:27.840
I hate he does when he, when he comes out,
1648
01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:30.640
he does like the Zoolander face, like the pose, like
1649
01:19:30.659 --> 01:19:33.739
with his mouth. I don't know something about he stopped.
1650
01:19:33.779 --> 01:19:39.600
He got to stop that. That's like, that's like a cartoonish, uh, that,
1651
01:19:40.220 --> 01:19:41.979
that makes me like, just want you to go away.
1652
01:19:42.020 --> 01:19:43.239
Cause I don't want to look at you. You know
1653
01:19:43.260 --> 01:19:46.279
what I mean? Not like a hundred percent.
1654
01:19:46.300 --> 01:19:47.779
That's what he's got to make sure he doesn't do is,
1655
01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:50.569
is get into the go away. He'd be the type of,
1656
01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:53.859
you know, every heel, the, the goal is to get,
1657
01:19:53.979 --> 01:19:54.859
you want to see him lose. You want to see
1658
01:19:54.890 --> 01:19:56.430
him get beat up. You want to see him get, get,
1659
01:19:57.369 --> 01:19:59.250
get what they have coming. He has a lot coming
1660
01:19:59.430 --> 01:20:04.729
his way. Ducky D says, bring back mother Wayne. Interesting.
1661
01:20:04.750 --> 01:20:07.369
Ducky D says, I've never seen a Dominic promo, but
1662
01:20:07.409 --> 01:20:10.979
it sounds like I'd hate him too. That's funny. There
1663
01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:13.560
are definitely people are AW only and WWE only, um,
1664
01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:16.640
out there, uh, for sure. And, and both companies need
1665
01:20:16.659 --> 01:20:18.819
to keep that in mind when they bring people in,
1666
01:20:19.100 --> 01:20:21.800
you know, who have a history in, in, um, in
1667
01:20:21.819 --> 01:20:24.060
the other company. Um, a lot of people just suggesting the,
1668
01:20:24.140 --> 01:20:25.800
the angle backstage with the women, by the way, is
1669
01:20:25.899 --> 01:20:29.619
setting up a women's blood and guts match. So we'll see, um,
1670
01:20:29.720 --> 01:20:31.850
how that goes. Any thoughts on Britt Baker on commentary
1671
01:20:31.890 --> 01:20:34.810
tonight during the, uh, um, the, uh, Queen Aminata, my
1672
01:20:34.850 --> 01:20:35.229
world match.
1673
01:20:35.729 --> 01:20:38.109
Yeah. I wasn't a fan of it. Uh, I wasn't
1674
01:20:38.130 --> 01:20:40.380
a fan of it at all. Um, It was almost
1675
01:20:40.420 --> 01:20:44.619
like she was disconnected from what was going on. I
1676
01:20:44.640 --> 01:20:46.600
didn't think it was great.
1677
01:20:47.500 --> 01:20:47.680
Yeah.
1678
01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:51.289
Yeah, I'm with you. They announced there'll be the next
1679
01:20:51.329 --> 01:20:53.369
Motorcycle Machine Guns FTR match on Collision and then a
1680
01:20:53.829 --> 01:21:00.729
possible deciding third match if there's a sweep on next Wednesday.
1681
01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:03.039
Any thoughts on what they did to kind of show
1682
01:21:03.060 --> 01:21:03.960
highlights and set that up?
1683
01:21:04.909 --> 01:21:07.069
Yeah, I mean, I thought the match that they had
1684
01:21:07.170 --> 01:21:10.369
on the pre-show was really great. I really enjoyed it.
1685
01:21:10.789 --> 01:21:13.409
I like that they're kind of reestablishing the machine guns,
1686
01:21:14.750 --> 01:21:17.609
making them feel important. I hope they win. I'd like
1687
01:21:17.630 --> 01:21:19.270
to see them go against the Bucs. It's a little
1688
01:21:19.289 --> 01:21:22.470
bit of like a dream match. We've seen Bucs FDR
1689
01:21:22.489 --> 01:21:25.090
so many times at this point. I'd like to see
1690
01:21:25.130 --> 01:21:29.909
something different. But yeah, no, I like that they're... Because
1691
01:21:29.930 --> 01:21:31.909
they brought them in and then it was like, all right, well,
1692
01:21:31.930 --> 01:21:33.329
what's kind of going on? And they're not really doing
1693
01:21:33.350 --> 01:21:35.729
anything with them. Um, so I love this kind of
1694
01:21:35.750 --> 01:21:38.229
best of five to get them on TV. Um, cause
1695
01:21:38.300 --> 01:21:39.689
I mean, it's so much fun on the ring.
1696
01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:44.699
Um, what was I going to say about that? Can't recall.
1697
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:46.619
I'll go to an email. This is from a Milo
1698
01:21:46.659 --> 01:21:48.979
in Los Angeles. He goes, um, I think a two
1699
01:21:49.000 --> 01:21:51.680
minute swerve promo clearly defining what's going on with him.
1700
01:21:52.100 --> 01:21:54.300
Why new level is gone. Why Prince Nana is no
1701
01:21:54.340 --> 01:21:56.520
longer dancing. Why this loss of the pay-per-view is eating
1702
01:21:56.539 --> 01:21:59.159
them up so much would have been way more effective
1703
01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:02.520
than what they did tonight. Do you agree or disagree?
1704
01:22:03.899 --> 01:22:06.920
A two-minute fire swerve promo would have given the show
1705
01:22:06.939 --> 01:22:08.850
some energy because otherwise it just seemed like a parade
1706
01:22:08.859 --> 01:22:13.010
of endless matches. Do they need to explain? Part of
1707
01:22:13.029 --> 01:22:17.989
me thinks they've shown us. Swerve and Hangman perpetually hate
1708
01:22:18.010 --> 01:22:21.939
each other, get on each other's nerves. There's a truce
1709
01:22:22.220 --> 01:22:24.699
in a way with what they've been through where they
1710
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:26.779
can share screen time and not just attack each other.
1711
01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:30.079
But they're always just right on the edge. And I
1712
01:22:30.100 --> 01:22:31.699
think that was firmly.
1713
01:22:33.350 --> 01:22:35.970
So your thoughts on what Mila said?
1714
01:22:37.189 --> 01:22:39.289
Yeah, I don't think that we needed a promo. I
1715
01:22:39.590 --> 01:22:42.079
kind of like, I think we, I like the squash.
1716
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:44.260
I like the squash match that he was in tonight.
1717
01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:46.939
When he took his coat off, I wish he had
1718
01:22:46.979 --> 01:22:48.979
kept his coat on. I wish he had just gone in,
1719
01:22:49.060 --> 01:22:51.399
kept the coat on, beat the hell out of that guy,
1720
01:22:51.720 --> 01:22:54.270
walked out of the ring. I thought that would have been,
1721
01:22:54.449 --> 01:22:56.189
I thought that would have been pretty cool if he
1722
01:22:56.210 --> 01:22:58.470
didn't even like take the time to take the coat off.
1723
01:22:58.510 --> 01:22:59.689
He was just going to go in there and kick ass.
1724
01:23:00.510 --> 01:23:02.090
But yeah, I mean, I think when it comes to
1725
01:23:02.130 --> 01:23:07.420
Swerve and Hangman, you know kind of the history there.
1726
01:23:07.819 --> 01:23:10.260
But Swerve's a good promo. Ken Swerve, just come on.
1727
01:23:10.460 --> 01:23:14.039
And I think they wanted us to wonder what happened
1728
01:23:14.060 --> 01:23:17.260
to New Level and what's going on with them. Because
1729
01:23:17.300 --> 01:23:19.930
fans are wondering after how Swerve has been acting. But
1730
01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:23.550
I guess I'm okay with them not being on the show,
1731
01:23:23.609 --> 01:23:25.369
not draw a ton of attention to it, have Swerve
1732
01:23:25.569 --> 01:23:27.670
act out the way that he is, and now next
1733
01:23:27.789 --> 01:23:31.369
week uh, Kofi and Austin just go, dude, what's going on?
1734
01:23:31.409 --> 01:23:32.770
You know, and he's like, you don't understand you weren't
1735
01:23:32.810 --> 01:23:35.189
around for this and, and, and kind of justify his
1736
01:23:35.250 --> 01:23:38.329
behavior and have that either lead attention or new level going.
1737
01:23:38.489 --> 01:23:41.329
Oh yeah. I mean, I guess I understand. And, you know,
1738
01:23:41.350 --> 01:23:43.510
but there's kind of that sense of, Ooh, are they
1739
01:23:43.829 --> 01:23:45.369
really going to be on the same page much longer?
1740
01:23:45.869 --> 01:23:46.109
Yeah.
1741
01:23:46.270 --> 01:23:49.270
Yeah. Cause I, I, I do, I don't want swerve
1742
01:23:49.329 --> 01:23:51.710
and new level to be together for too long. I
1743
01:23:51.750 --> 01:23:54.189
do want this to kind of be a quick little thing.
1744
01:23:54.250 --> 01:23:56.310
So if anything, you know, so if that's something that
1745
01:23:56.340 --> 01:23:59.489
can kind of cause tension, It would be great if
1746
01:24:00.609 --> 01:24:04.760
Swerve is still so obsessed with Hangman, it costs him
1747
01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:08.619
his friendship with New Level. You know what I mean?
1748
01:24:08.659 --> 01:24:12.609
These two just take everything from each other, back and forth, everything. Friendships, belts,
1749
01:24:12.949 --> 01:24:14.529
whatever we can take from each other, we take.
1750
01:24:15.329 --> 01:24:16.430
Yeah, absolutely.
1751
01:24:18.609 --> 01:24:19.789
Hey, everyone. Greg Parks here.
1752
01:24:20.050 --> 01:24:22.550
You've probably heard me hosting Wrestling Night in America after
1753
01:24:22.609 --> 01:24:25.560
pay-per-views and also co-hosting the Tuesday flagship with Wade Keller.
1754
01:24:26.189 --> 01:24:28.760
I also host a VIP exclusive podcast every week called
1755
01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:31.560
Greg Parks Out Loud. In this podcast, I delve into
1756
01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:33.960
a single topic for around 20 minutes, perfect length for
1757
01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:35.960
one of your daily commutes or while walking the dog.
1758
01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:38.619
A couple of my recent episodes included a look at
1759
01:24:38.699 --> 01:24:41.850
TNA as they moved to AMC and WWE and AEW
1760
01:24:41.949 --> 01:24:45.069
injuries for the year 2025. You can listen to VIP
1761
01:24:45.109 --> 01:24:49.210
podcasts with a VIP membership on many platforms, including on Patreon, Spotify,
1762
01:24:49.250 --> 01:24:51.939
the Apple Podcasts native app on iPhone and CarPlay, just
1763
01:24:51.949 --> 01:24:54.720
about every popular iOS and Android podcast app out there,
1764
01:24:55.100 --> 01:24:57.840
and even stream right from the ad-free PWTorch VIP website.
1765
01:24:58.300 --> 01:25:02.720
Full details on VIP membership at pwtorch.com slash govip. As
1766
01:25:02.739 --> 01:25:05.229
an added bonus, VIP membership means you won't hear this
1767
01:25:05.270 --> 01:25:08.210
commercial again, or any commercials, as commercial breaks are skipped
1768
01:25:08.289 --> 01:25:11.229
right over on the VIP podcast feed in addition to
1769
01:25:11.310 --> 01:25:12.989
all the commercial-free VIP podcasts.
1770
01:25:13.390 --> 01:25:13.789
Check it out.
1771
01:25:13.970 --> 01:25:15.850
We'd love for you to join our community and unlock
1772
01:25:15.930 --> 01:25:18.170
access to all our VIP-exclusive content.
1773
01:25:20.340 --> 01:25:22.340
All right. Email you can use for any of our
1774
01:25:22.359 --> 01:25:24.720
post shows is Wade Keller post show at gmail.com. Milo
1775
01:25:24.739 --> 01:25:26.640
just did that and you were invited to do so too.
1776
01:25:27.579 --> 01:25:29.899
We have some super chats from Derek Mitchell from earlier
1777
01:25:29.979 --> 01:25:32.569
that I want to get to hear about Will Ospreay
1778
01:25:32.609 --> 01:25:35.390
circling back to that. Derek, thank you again. King of
1779
01:25:35.409 --> 01:25:38.489
the super chats. Super appreciate it. Will booking as world
1780
01:25:38.529 --> 01:25:41.310
champion has been disappointing. Instead of him discussing his victory
1781
01:25:41.850 --> 01:25:49.520
at WrestleDream, he's wrestling in his eighth straight Dynamite match
1782
01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:57.199
since winning the title at All Out. And he adds... Oh,
1783
01:25:57.260 --> 01:26:03.869
that's a secondary, so I'll save that. It's a separate issue. So, yes,
1784
01:26:03.989 --> 01:26:07.409
it does feel like they just kind of... They did
1785
01:26:07.489 --> 01:26:10.289
follow up on WrestleDream, but they made such a big
1786
01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:12.470
deal out of the Clockwork match. It's almost like they're
1787
01:26:12.489 --> 01:26:15.220
kind of running from it. Like, they didn't want to...
1788
01:26:15.229 --> 01:26:17.939
I don't know. I think They talked about what the
1789
01:26:17.979 --> 01:26:19.930
Bucs went through. I think they should have talked about
1790
01:26:20.210 --> 01:26:24.569
what Will went through more, you know, have non-buyer's remorse
1791
01:26:24.630 --> 01:26:27.909
and emphasize that a little bit more. But also, is
1792
01:26:27.930 --> 01:26:30.890
there something just kind of a bigger picture? Some would
1793
01:26:30.909 --> 01:26:33.470
say don't give Will Ospreay the mic every week. Sometimes
1794
01:26:33.510 --> 01:26:36.840
it can do more harm than good. And maybe he
1795
01:26:36.880 --> 01:26:40.359
shouldn't be wrestling every week, even if he's willing to. So, yeah, Taylor,
1796
01:26:40.399 --> 01:26:42.960
talk about the points Derek brings up.
1797
01:26:43.609 --> 01:26:46.329
Yeah, no, I mean, one of my main concerns when
1798
01:26:46.409 --> 01:26:48.989
Osprey won the title was I was hoping it wasn't
1799
01:26:49.020 --> 01:26:52.260
going to be another Hangman situation where the chase turned
1800
01:26:52.319 --> 01:26:56.359
into something that was better than the actual reign. And
1801
01:26:56.380 --> 01:26:58.819
even with Hangman, sometimes he kind of went to the
1802
01:26:58.859 --> 01:27:02.439
back of kind of storylines and the main focus of
1803
01:27:02.479 --> 01:27:07.880
the show when he was the champ. I think when
1804
01:27:07.899 --> 01:27:11.090
AEW is running the best is when their champion is
1805
01:27:11.909 --> 01:27:14.409
out front and focused. And I think if you look
1806
01:27:14.449 --> 01:27:18.520
at the MJF run from like January to March that
1807
01:27:18.539 --> 01:27:21.140
they had last year, I think that's the strongest the
1808
01:27:21.180 --> 01:27:23.939
company had been in a long time. And it was
1809
01:27:24.060 --> 01:27:27.229
because everyone was focused on the world title. Your champion
1810
01:27:27.239 --> 01:27:29.850
was the main guy. He was coming out, setting the tone.
1811
01:27:31.069 --> 01:27:32.829
And Ospreay is a guy who can do that. I
1812
01:27:33.689 --> 01:27:36.470
understand what you say sometimes with his promos can get
1813
01:27:36.510 --> 01:27:40.170
a little bit wonky. He can sometimes say things that
1814
01:27:40.210 --> 01:27:43.520
are like, what the hell you're talking about guy uh
1815
01:27:44.600 --> 01:27:46.720
but um you know he's such a charismatic guy like
1816
01:27:46.840 --> 01:27:48.930
i i just feel like he he he should be
1817
01:27:48.939 --> 01:27:56.989
the main focus of that show every week i think
1818
01:27:57.010 --> 01:27:57.750
you're muted.
1819
01:27:57.670 --> 01:28:01.710
Wade thank you yeah you want him to be embrace
1820
01:28:01.750 --> 01:28:03.949
being kind of quirky but you don't want that to
1821
01:28:03.989 --> 01:28:06.210
be the main thing you think about like and and
1822
01:28:06.619 --> 01:28:08.619
So it's sort of like, okay, normally you would kind
1823
01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:09.739
of have a third of this or a third of
1824
01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:11.479
that and a third of that. This third is what
1825
01:28:11.520 --> 01:28:14.520
we want to be 80%. So let's find a way
1826
01:28:14.560 --> 01:28:19.239
to make this third that is a superstar mega champion,
1827
01:28:19.430 --> 01:28:23.510
mega star champion centerpiece act who's grown into this role.
1828
01:28:24.810 --> 01:28:27.970
That's there, but it gets kind of drowned out by
1829
01:28:27.989 --> 01:28:32.409
a couple other personality traits that you have. Let's make
1830
01:28:32.449 --> 01:28:36.170
a deliberate effort to minimize that, other two thirds down
1831
01:28:36.189 --> 01:28:37.779
to just 10 or 20% of what you do. So
1832
01:28:37.819 --> 01:28:40.500
it's still there. We're not asking you to, you know,
1833
01:28:40.840 --> 01:28:42.659
just snuff it out and not, not show that, but
1834
01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:44.279
the thing that's going to make you more of a
1835
01:28:44.300 --> 01:28:46.539
draw and be a serious, you know, more serious champion,
1836
01:28:46.960 --> 01:28:49.550
let's emphasize that. And that just takes some planning and,
1837
01:28:49.890 --> 01:28:52.829
you know, a little bit of finesse. Darrell in the
1838
01:28:52.850 --> 01:28:54.569
chat says, I would have loved to have heard from
1839
01:28:54.609 --> 01:28:56.590
Will since he's in his new title run. They let
1840
01:28:56.609 --> 01:28:58.729
Nick Wayne go out, out there and bomb on the
1841
01:28:58.750 --> 01:29:01.899
mic tonight. Will could have talked a little. So some
1842
01:29:02.300 --> 01:29:06.579
disagreement with– in terms of the opinion on how that
1843
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:08.840
Nick Wayne thing went, which I understood. That's why I
1844
01:29:08.880 --> 01:29:11.779
said if you're mad, you're supposed to be. But I
1845
01:29:11.819 --> 01:29:13.600
think bombing is not accurate, Taylor.
1846
01:29:14.239 --> 01:29:16.520
No, I don't think he bombed at all. That's– no.
1847
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:20.479
I think Britt Baker bombed on commentary. You know what
1848
01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:21.000
I mean?
1849
01:29:21.079 --> 01:29:21.239
Yeah.
1850
01:29:21.260 --> 01:29:24.909
You know what I mean? Yeah. But I will say, though,
1851
01:29:24.970 --> 01:29:27.390
with Ospreay coming up, if we're going to get Ospreay-Fletcher,
1852
01:29:27.710 --> 01:29:29.569
that's going to be a real focus of the show
1853
01:29:30.149 --> 01:29:33.489
going forward. Maybe they were just kind of biding their
1854
01:29:33.529 --> 01:29:37.810
time to get to that. But I think if we're
1855
01:29:37.840 --> 01:29:42.159
going to get Fletcher, Ospreay, Ospreay-Copeland, those are going to
1856
01:29:42.180 --> 01:29:45.060
be big-time feuds that are going to get a lot
1857
01:29:45.079 --> 01:29:45.819
of focus on the show.
1858
01:29:47.020 --> 01:29:48.960
Derek in the chat says, it's like Will's title reign
1859
01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:51.180
is avenging losses against the same opponents. I was hoping
1860
01:29:51.220 --> 01:29:53.260
for so much more with Will, but AW leans on
1861
01:29:53.770 --> 01:29:56.810
This is the best wrestle, and he needs a singular
1862
01:29:57.189 --> 01:30:00.270
number one contender. In his super chat, he said, Will's
1863
01:30:00.289 --> 01:30:02.069
booking his world champ has been disappointing. Instead of him
1864
01:30:02.109 --> 01:30:04.829
discussing his victory, he's wrestling as a straight down. Okay,
1865
01:30:04.850 --> 01:30:06.550
I covered that. Where's the other super chat that I
1866
01:30:06.569 --> 01:30:12.390
wanted to bring up from Derek? Well, anyway, yeah, so
1867
01:30:13.029 --> 01:30:14.750
kind of just step back to the big picture. How
1868
01:30:14.770 --> 01:30:17.439
do you feel about what they've done with Will, and
1869
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:21.890
do you think tonight's show– set enough wheels in motion
1870
01:30:21.949 --> 01:30:26.529
for things that it is breaking away from, um, some
1871
01:30:26.850 --> 01:30:29.529
concerns people had before the clockwork carnage match.
1872
01:30:30.409 --> 01:30:33.109
Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think you can see
1873
01:30:33.130 --> 01:30:34.869
what's kind of coming on the horizon. We just have
1874
01:30:34.890 --> 01:30:36.729
to get there, I guess. You know what I mean? Um,
1875
01:30:37.489 --> 01:30:42.130
you know, not every show can be, uh, sometimes you
1876
01:30:42.149 --> 01:30:43.630
have to have a show tonight. That's kind of setting
1877
01:30:43.649 --> 01:30:44.970
things up. You know what I mean? Tonight was kind
1878
01:30:44.989 --> 01:30:46.810
of like a setup show. I feel like, um, we're
1879
01:30:47.250 --> 01:30:51.909
setting things up for the future. Um, I, you can
1880
01:30:52.050 --> 01:30:54.850
kind of see coming out of that clockwork carnage match
1881
01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:57.720
where they want to go with certain things. So if
1882
01:30:57.739 --> 01:30:59.760
they're going to go that way, I, I, I'm not
1883
01:31:00.119 --> 01:31:03.100
too worried. I, you know, my, my scale of one
1884
01:31:03.140 --> 01:31:06.899
to 10, I worry probably at a four, you know? Yeah. Yep.
1885
01:31:07.819 --> 01:31:12.670
Yep. I, yeah, I, there's so much that will has
1886
01:31:12.829 --> 01:31:14.670
so much going for him. You know, he's just, he
1887
01:31:14.689 --> 01:31:17.390
can be the face of this brand and you only
1888
01:31:17.430 --> 01:31:21.260
have so much time to, to, just have him be
1889
01:31:21.319 --> 01:31:24.020
a guy, you know, and, and that's what Derek says,
1890
01:31:24.039 --> 01:31:25.970
you know, will feels like another guy in the roster
1891
01:31:26.310 --> 01:31:29.090
instead of a central figure in the promotion. And that
1892
01:31:29.109 --> 01:31:33.069
just is an ongoing, I think legit concern to have
1893
01:31:33.130 --> 01:31:36.789
about what they're doing is don't miss the window to
1894
01:31:37.529 --> 01:31:39.710
make him seem special. Boris in the chat says, you know,
1895
01:31:39.729 --> 01:31:42.369
he's been knocked out for, uh, for six with the tragedies.
1896
01:31:42.430 --> 01:31:44.310
It's okay that it's not perfect with Osprey.
1897
01:31:44.670 --> 01:31:44.810
Yeah.
1898
01:31:44.949 --> 01:31:47.000
I mean, it's, it's okay to say there might be
1899
01:31:47.039 --> 01:31:51.369
justification or reason out of their control. Um, But it
1900
01:31:51.390 --> 01:31:53.770
doesn't mean it's not worth bringing up. Let's make a
1901
01:31:53.829 --> 01:31:58.329
real effort to make sure that things get on track
1902
01:31:58.670 --> 01:32:00.369
in a better way. Here's the other super chat from
1903
01:32:00.390 --> 01:32:02.310
Derek I wanted to bring up. Thank you, Derek, again. Wade,
1904
01:32:02.329 --> 01:32:04.390
you discussed this on the WrestleDream post show. AW really
1905
01:32:04.409 --> 01:32:05.930
needs to get away from their tagline. This is where
1906
01:32:05.949 --> 01:32:08.710
the best wrestle. And they should emphasize having the best
1907
01:32:08.979 --> 01:32:10.529
superstars in wrestling.
1908
01:32:11.840 --> 01:32:12.109
Yes.
1909
01:32:13.420 --> 01:32:15.739
I agree. I mean, I can say it in passing,
1910
01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:20.369
but your tagline, when you define something that's self-evident, What
1911
01:32:20.390 --> 01:32:22.869
you want to do is emphasize something that, if you
1912
01:32:22.909 --> 01:32:26.470
emphasize it, it manifests into reality, which is just say,
1913
01:32:26.609 --> 01:32:30.470
with a straight face, boldly, without seeming manipulative or pushy,
1914
01:32:30.590 --> 01:32:33.449
this is where the biggest stars are. Are people going
1915
01:32:33.470 --> 01:32:35.189
to go, no, none of your guys are bigger than
1916
01:32:35.670 --> 01:32:39.260
Roman Reigns or now Olva Femi or Cody Rhodes or
1917
01:32:39.300 --> 01:32:43.420
Randy Orton? Well, maybe, but I think there's an audience
1918
01:32:43.479 --> 01:32:45.819
out there, Taylor, who are willing to embrace that, yes,
1919
01:32:46.460 --> 01:32:50.180
Will Ospreay, I mean, Kenny Omega and Swerve Strickland and Hangman,
1920
01:32:50.220 --> 01:32:52.800
these are the biggest stars in wrestling. Mercedes Monet and
1921
01:32:52.840 --> 01:32:56.260
Adam Copeland are every bit the star that Becky Lynch
1922
01:32:56.300 --> 01:32:59.779
and Randy Orton are. Don't sell yourself short and don't think, oh,
1923
01:32:59.880 --> 01:33:01.939
we have to just settle for having the best wrestlers,
1924
01:33:01.979 --> 01:33:05.310
but not the biggest stars. People become big stars because
1925
01:33:05.350 --> 01:33:08.510
the promoter frames them as big stars. And I do
1926
01:33:08.590 --> 01:33:13.170
think they have enough with Kyle Fletcher, Don Callis, Okada.
1927
01:33:13.189 --> 01:33:15.369
I mean, we could start anywhere on that roster and go,
1928
01:33:15.989 --> 01:33:18.670
this is a roster with people where it's not a
1929
01:33:18.689 --> 01:33:21.869
stretch to say we have the biggest stars on the
1930
01:33:21.930 --> 01:33:25.039
planet who also happen to be having the best matches.
1931
01:33:25.380 --> 01:33:27.140
Yeah no i i totally agree with that i i
1932
01:33:27.180 --> 01:33:29.659
think you could if you lined up you know the
1933
01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:33.819
rosters of aw and wwe it's you know it it's
1934
01:33:33.859 --> 01:33:36.779
close you know it's it's it's it's closer than it
1935
01:33:36.850 --> 01:33:38.949
was you know what i mean over the last uh
1936
01:33:39.010 --> 01:33:41.310
few years um and kind of just to go back
1937
01:33:41.369 --> 01:33:43.810
to which which i you know i didn't really think
1938
01:33:43.850 --> 01:33:48.779
about too like the the amount of kind of that
1939
01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:51.720
AEW has dealt with over the last, you know, month
1940
01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:54.579
or two since Will's reign, you know, with The Butcher
1941
01:33:54.699 --> 01:33:59.180
and Pac, and then they had the Rebel episode. You know,
1942
01:33:59.539 --> 01:34:00.819
I think if you kind of take that on the
1943
01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:03.449
perspective too, which, you know, I didn't really think about myself,
1944
01:34:04.350 --> 01:34:06.489
kind of hard to get momentum going for a guy
1945
01:34:06.670 --> 01:34:10.569
when you're having these type of, you know, tribute matches
1946
01:34:10.590 --> 01:34:12.949
and tribute shows and special shows.
1947
01:34:13.289 --> 01:34:14.710
And a Tuesday night episode too.
1948
01:34:14.970 --> 01:34:17.710
Yeah. With a much smaller audience. That was, I forget,
1949
01:34:18.229 --> 01:34:19.829
who just made that comment. That was a great comment
1950
01:34:19.890 --> 01:34:22.010
that I didn't even really, you know, kind of think
1951
01:34:22.050 --> 01:34:23.609
about when I was thinking about kind of the will run.
1952
01:34:24.750 --> 01:34:26.310
So a little pushback from a couple of people in
1953
01:34:26.350 --> 01:34:29.460
chat about AW promoting Will Ospreay as a big star.
1954
01:34:29.479 --> 01:34:33.340
I hope I'm framing your counter argument fairly. Standard Deviation says,
1955
01:34:33.380 --> 01:34:37.279
I disagree. Then you're comparing yourself to WWE, but you're worse.
1956
01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:39.800
So if he's talking about what we were just talking about,
1957
01:34:39.819 --> 01:34:43.079
and I think he is, what makes it work? Let's
1958
01:34:43.239 --> 01:34:47.050
flip everybody around. Let's say AW has WWE's roster and
1959
01:34:47.100 --> 01:34:50.600
suddenly AEW Will Ospreay and Swerve Strickland and Hangman Page
1960
01:34:50.640 --> 01:34:53.380
and the Young Bucks and New Level and Adam Copeland
1961
01:34:53.399 --> 01:34:57.970
and Mercedes and Marina Shafir and John freaking Moxley are
1962
01:34:58.170 --> 01:35:03.329
in WWE and they promote them the way they promote
1963
01:35:03.789 --> 01:35:06.350
Oba and Roman and Cody and Pump. You would just
1964
01:35:06.369 --> 01:35:08.890
be saying the same thing. The reason that it is
1965
01:35:11.569 --> 01:35:14.149
it feels lopsided and a stretch is because AW isn't
1966
01:35:14.189 --> 01:35:16.399
in the business of framing their best wrestlers with the
1967
01:35:16.460 --> 01:35:19.899
most charisma and the most the the most familiarity to
1968
01:35:19.920 --> 01:35:23.340
the larger mainstream audience, they don't frame them as big stars. Now,
1969
01:35:24.840 --> 01:35:29.130
the disadvantage, and this is, it's kind of funny because
1970
01:35:29.149 --> 01:35:32.130
the disadvantage is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. They run smaller
1971
01:35:32.149 --> 01:35:35.670
buildings in front of smaller crowds in WWE. So why
1972
01:35:35.750 --> 01:35:37.310
is that? Well, because you don't promote your wrestlers as
1973
01:35:37.350 --> 01:35:40.250
stars and there's only, there's a certain limited audience that
1974
01:35:40.510 --> 01:35:42.550
just wants to see the best wrestle. Most people want
1975
01:35:42.569 --> 01:35:44.350
to go to see a star that they're invested in
1976
01:35:44.380 --> 01:35:46.720
their journey and they think that they're watching the top,
1977
01:35:47.010 --> 01:35:49.569
the top rock stars of this industry. WWE does a
1978
01:35:49.569 --> 01:35:51.550
better job with that. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You
1979
01:35:51.569 --> 01:35:55.340
end up with bigger arenas with bigger crowds. So you
1980
01:35:55.380 --> 01:35:58.199
kind of have to put, you have to promote them
1981
01:35:58.939 --> 01:36:01.680
as the biggest stars, even before you have the biggest
1982
01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:04.659
crowds in order to grow your crowds. So there has
1983
01:36:04.680 --> 01:36:06.739
to be a little bit of a, of a fraudulent
1984
01:36:06.859 --> 01:36:09.600
overstatement that I think people are, that their fan base
1985
01:36:09.619 --> 01:36:12.600
would be willing to live with, with the excuse being
1986
01:36:12.699 --> 01:36:15.369
WWE has a big head start. And they also, by
1987
01:36:15.390 --> 01:36:17.899
the way, have Wembley, and other big crowds that they're
1988
01:36:17.909 --> 01:36:20.680
going to, to show we are not small time. This
1989
01:36:20.739 --> 01:36:24.399
is not, you know, we, we draw big crowds. We have,
1990
01:36:24.819 --> 01:36:27.199
but they should emphasize more of their giant pay-per-view crowds
1991
01:36:27.260 --> 01:36:30.239
and in their, you know, when they visually show their wrestlers,
1992
01:36:30.260 --> 01:36:33.090
they should be showing more Wembley footage and more of
1993
01:36:33.119 --> 01:36:35.529
their pay-per-view crowds. Cause they still do draw big crowds
1994
01:36:35.550 --> 01:36:41.470
that match these typical Ron Smackdown for their pay-per-views. iPhone users.
1995
01:36:41.510 --> 01:36:43.390
If you're listening to us on the native podcast app
1996
01:36:43.489 --> 01:36:47.220
on your iPhone app, You can unlock our commercial-free versions
1997
01:36:47.439 --> 01:36:51.729
of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts.
1998
01:36:51.750 --> 01:36:54.289
You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP
1999
01:36:54.369 --> 01:36:56.350
on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of
2000
01:36:56.390 --> 01:36:59.989
VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup,
2001
01:37:00.010 --> 01:37:03.220
which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free
2002
01:37:03.260 --> 01:37:06.920
shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on
2003
01:37:06.939 --> 01:37:10.260
the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day free trial.
2004
01:37:10.300 --> 01:37:12.739
And after that, you can become a VIP member using
2005
01:37:12.779 --> 01:37:15.970
your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a streamlined listening
2006
01:37:16.020 --> 01:37:19.649
experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives,
2007
01:37:19.689 --> 01:37:23.369
including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything
2008
01:37:23.409 --> 01:37:25.550
with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with
2009
01:37:25.569 --> 01:37:29.010
Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just
2010
01:37:29.029 --> 01:37:31.270
search PWTorch in your Apple podcast app.
2011
01:37:33.350 --> 01:37:35.729
Yeah, no, I totally, I mean, I, I, I totally agree.
2012
01:37:35.770 --> 01:37:37.609
I mean, even if you look at WWE's roster, I mean,
2013
01:37:38.239 --> 01:37:41.699
They started with WWE, but Punk and Cody are two
2014
01:37:41.729 --> 01:37:43.109
of the biggest guys they had there, and they were
2015
01:37:43.130 --> 01:37:45.989
at AEW for a long time. You know what I mean?
2016
01:37:46.010 --> 01:37:48.960
So if you are promoting your guys the right way–
2017
01:37:49.010 --> 01:37:51.869
I mean, Roman's Roman. Roman's in a different– you put
2018
01:37:51.890 --> 01:37:54.210
him to the side. That's a different level of different stratosphere.
2019
01:37:54.250 --> 01:37:57.229
You know what I mean? But, yeah, I mean, like
2020
01:37:57.250 --> 01:37:58.989
you said, if you flip the rosters, there's no reason
2021
01:37:59.029 --> 01:38:04.140
why guys like The Bucks and Kenny Omega and Kyle
2022
01:38:04.180 --> 01:38:06.319
Fletcher couldn't be as big as the guys they have
2023
01:38:06.359 --> 01:38:07.680
now on WWE right now.
2024
01:38:08.569 --> 01:38:09.890
And I don't wave the white flag as far as
2025
01:38:09.949 --> 01:38:13.170
Roman goes, because Will Ospreay and Jon Moxley did just
2026
01:38:13.470 --> 01:38:16.270
pull two names out to the AW audience and people
2027
01:38:16.310 --> 01:38:20.550
are sampling the product. I think people are lacking imagination.
2028
01:38:22.189 --> 01:38:25.229
There were ECW fans in the original Paul Heyman ECW
2029
01:38:25.619 --> 01:38:27.399
who thought that Raven was a bigger star than anyone
2030
01:38:27.420 --> 01:38:32.989
in the WWE for WCW or that public enemy or the, like,
2031
01:38:33.489 --> 01:38:35.229
I'm just like, so many names are coming through my
2032
01:38:35.270 --> 01:38:38.720
head of these are the biggest stars. Sabu is better
2033
01:38:38.739 --> 01:38:43.399
than anybody. He is the homicidal suicidal mania ECW fans.
2034
01:38:43.420 --> 01:38:47.289
Cause Paul Heyman was unabashed in saying, these are the
2035
01:38:47.329 --> 01:38:49.449
biggest stars, but he framed them as they're the biggest
2036
01:38:49.470 --> 01:38:51.630
stars because we define that in a different way than
2037
01:38:51.670 --> 01:38:54.869
those other guys do. And AW can do that, but
2038
01:38:54.930 --> 01:38:59.220
don't just go, well, star ratings, you know, they're going
2039
01:38:59.239 --> 01:39:02.300
to win best match. They're higher in the PWI 500.
2040
01:39:02.300 --> 01:39:04.859
MJF is not going to take a backseat to Roman
2041
01:39:04.899 --> 01:39:07.699
Reigns right now. If you promote MJF in the right way,
2042
01:39:08.899 --> 01:39:12.260
I'm sorry. I just, WCW fans during the Jim Crockett
2043
01:39:12.279 --> 01:39:14.119
promotion mid to late 80s, they saw Ric Flair as
2044
01:39:14.140 --> 01:39:16.060
a bigger star than Hulk Hogan. With smaller crowds and
2045
01:39:16.100 --> 01:39:19.039
no WrestleMania, that was their guy. He was the bigger star.
2046
01:39:20.060 --> 01:39:22.140
In Dallas, the Von Eriks were the biggest stars when
2047
01:39:22.180 --> 01:39:26.579
Hulk Hogan was rising. Because world-class promoted him that way.
2048
01:39:27.479 --> 01:39:29.220
They didn't have a defeatist attitude and going, well, we
2049
01:39:29.239 --> 01:39:31.859
have to say that we have the most charismatic family
2050
01:39:31.920 --> 01:39:36.779
or the best feuds. No, they were the biggest stars.
2051
01:39:36.890 --> 01:39:39.010
Every territory did that. Jerry Lawler was the biggest star
2052
01:39:39.029 --> 01:39:45.630
in Memphis. AW can do a better job with that.
2053
01:39:47.029 --> 01:39:49.590
So I don't know. Standard Aviation says, I can buy
2054
01:39:49.609 --> 01:39:51.590
into the idea that Ospreay is better than Roman in
2055
01:39:51.609 --> 01:39:53.590
the category of being the best wrestler, but I'd laugh
2056
01:39:53.630 --> 01:39:55.250
if they tried to sell me that he's a bigger
2057
01:39:55.350 --> 01:39:56.569
star than Roman.
2058
01:39:58.039 --> 01:40:01.260
It's not about saying bigger star. It's about saying we
2059
01:40:01.300 --> 01:40:04.939
have guys that are also, I mean, I've said this
2060
01:40:05.020 --> 01:40:08.630
on this show before, but like, At the beginning of AEW,
2061
01:40:08.670 --> 01:40:10.489
they really missed the boat. And I'm sure this had
2062
01:40:10.510 --> 01:40:12.149
a lot to do with Kenny too, but they really
2063
01:40:12.189 --> 01:40:16.850
missed the boat on making Kenny their kind of Roman,
2064
01:40:16.890 --> 01:40:26.000
their centerpiece. I mean, that entrance at All Out was...
2065
01:40:26.039 --> 01:40:28.479
I mean, when he walked out... I mean, the Ospreay
2066
01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:31.810
entrance was incredible as well. But man, when Kenny walked
2067
01:40:31.859 --> 01:40:34.170
out on that effing stage, I was like, this guy
2068
01:40:34.270 --> 01:40:38.149
is a freaking... He's he's a video game character. I mean,
2069
01:40:38.649 --> 01:40:41.579
it's just like, man, like the aura that he had
2070
01:40:41.640 --> 01:40:46.239
during that entrance was just like you could put that
2071
01:40:46.340 --> 01:40:49.159
against any wrestling entry. I mean, it's just that guy
2072
01:40:49.199 --> 01:40:51.439
is just a star. He just looks like it has
2073
01:40:51.460 --> 01:40:54.239
himself like it. And they really just missed the boat
2074
01:40:54.300 --> 01:40:57.189
at the beginning there of really making him the centerpiece
2075
01:40:57.199 --> 01:40:58.170
of that of that place.
2076
01:40:59.470 --> 01:41:01.989
You don't want to have, you know, stretch credulity. You
2077
01:41:02.010 --> 01:41:03.989
don't want fans just be like, oh, you're you're con man.
2078
01:41:04.029 --> 01:41:06.859
You're conning us. We know better. But I'm sorry, you
2079
01:41:06.880 --> 01:41:10.119
put a parade of, and in no particular order, Kenny Omega,
2080
01:41:10.260 --> 01:41:13.920
Adam Copeland, Hangman Page, Swerve Strickland, Jon Moxley, Will Ospreay,
2081
01:41:14.340 --> 01:41:19.920
the Young Bucks, the New Level, Mercedes Monet, when Tony
2082
01:41:19.939 --> 01:41:23.920
Storm is back, MJF. If you feature them in your
2083
01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:27.220
opening of AEW, if you have the announcers, and this
2084
01:41:27.239 --> 01:41:29.020
is what I wrote in the VIP forum during Dynamite
2085
01:41:29.039 --> 01:41:31.340
because I felt so strongly about it, the announcers need
2086
01:41:31.380 --> 01:41:35.550
to make it seem like not everybody's equal. they're at
2087
01:41:35.699 --> 01:41:38.810
different times during different stretches of time. Some people are
2088
01:41:38.850 --> 01:41:41.729
a bigger deal. And I see in the chat, people like, well,
2089
01:41:41.869 --> 01:41:45.369
it'd be crazy to say that. Um, it'd be, I'd
2090
01:41:45.409 --> 01:41:46.909
laugh you out of the, out of the house. Standard
2091
01:41:46.930 --> 01:41:48.670
deviation says, if you said that, that Will Ospreay is
2092
01:41:48.689 --> 01:41:51.609
a bigger star than Roman. Well, Roman has more history
2093
01:41:51.770 --> 01:41:56.149
being a big star, but AEW can make Will Ospreay
2094
01:41:56.189 --> 01:41:58.380
to their audience and casual fans who are looking for
2095
01:41:58.409 --> 01:42:03.930
something different than three facial expression, narcissistic prick roman reigns
2096
01:42:03.949 --> 01:42:07.729
who's getting cheered based on inertia and past accomplishments and
2097
01:42:07.750 --> 01:42:09.649
by the way i love i loved his match at
2098
01:42:09.670 --> 01:42:12.899
money the bank i think he's amazingly charismatic i'm not
2099
01:42:13.199 --> 01:42:15.060
dissing on what i'm saying is how how do you
2100
01:42:15.239 --> 01:42:22.020
frame will osprey with the implication to fans being this
2101
01:42:22.079 --> 01:42:24.739
guy is today's big star he's not living on past
2102
01:42:24.779 --> 01:42:29.560
laurels yeah he and there's nobody like wrestling promoters you
2103
01:42:29.579 --> 01:42:30.800
say all the time, this could be a main event
2104
01:42:30.859 --> 01:42:32.739
anywhere in the world when it was a territory. Every
2105
01:42:32.760 --> 01:42:34.279
announcer in every territory goes, this could be a main
2106
01:42:34.300 --> 01:42:35.880
event anywhere in the world. There's promoters all over the
2107
01:42:35.920 --> 01:42:37.899
world who bid for this match and we got it.
2108
01:42:38.659 --> 01:42:42.409
Say that about Will Ospreay. Say there's no bigger star
2109
01:42:42.449 --> 01:42:44.590
in wrestling than Will Ospreay. There's nobody he could not
2110
01:42:44.609 --> 01:42:47.550
defeat in the ring. This guy's in his prime. Gush
2111
01:42:47.590 --> 01:42:52.390
about him like Bill Watts gushed about Eric Watts. Just
2112
01:42:52.989 --> 01:42:55.020
be a proud dad who can't shut up about him
2113
01:42:55.029 --> 01:42:58.819
because you know what? He can back it up. I just...
2114
01:42:59.510 --> 01:43:01.510
Same thing with MJF. I mean, you can't pick eight guys,
2115
01:43:01.649 --> 01:43:05.350
but you got to pick a few and one should
2116
01:43:05.380 --> 01:43:07.020
be at the top and that should be your world champion.
2117
01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:10.100
Moxie can be kind of your undertaker-esque, you know, the
2118
01:43:10.140 --> 01:43:13.359
guy who's always there. He's not always a world champ
2119
01:43:13.399 --> 01:43:15.359
in the main events, but he's there and he's a star.
2120
01:43:16.470 --> 01:43:19.229
AW can do a better job with it. Don't give
2121
01:43:19.329 --> 01:43:21.649
up on that is my point. You're the number two company,
2122
01:43:22.569 --> 01:43:25.310
but you have what AW has. Don't go, ah, we're
2123
01:43:25.329 --> 01:43:27.289
going to wave the white flag on having superstars who
2124
01:43:27.329 --> 01:43:30.229
are drawing power. Just come to see good matches, please.
2125
01:43:31.729 --> 01:43:34.050
You're limiting yourself, and you don't need to do it.
2126
01:43:34.109 --> 01:43:36.470
Zach Barber says, for a wrestling forward company, the tagline
2127
01:43:36.510 --> 01:43:37.010
makes sense.
2128
01:43:37.789 --> 01:43:38.050
No.
2129
01:43:39.069 --> 01:43:42.310
It is a wrestling forward company. That's self-evident. Everybody watching
2130
01:43:42.369 --> 01:43:44.630
knows that. You don't need to talk about it. What
2131
01:43:44.670 --> 01:43:46.550
you need to do is frame your guys who are
2132
01:43:46.569 --> 01:43:49.689
having these matches as stars. All right. Anything else you
2133
01:43:49.710 --> 01:43:51.409
want to bring up from your notes around this topic
2134
01:43:51.430 --> 01:43:53.289
or any other topic, Taylor, before we sign off?
2135
01:43:54.289 --> 01:43:56.430
Um, I don't think so. I think we hit, I
2136
01:43:57.470 --> 01:44:02.489
think we hit everything. Um, yeah, no, I hit everything.
2137
01:44:02.510 --> 01:44:04.850
All right. A couple of chat comments to close things
2138
01:44:04.909 --> 01:44:07.380
out then. Uh, Derek says, Wade, you're absolutely preaching the gospel.
2139
01:44:07.420 --> 01:44:08.800
Like you, I lived through the era when Ric Flair
2140
01:44:08.819 --> 01:44:11.859
carried himself as the true world champion of wrestling, never
2141
01:44:11.920 --> 01:44:17.409
adopting a defeatist attitude against the WWF. Standard deviation says,
2142
01:44:17.470 --> 01:44:21.010
I still disagree. To maximize influencing the audience's perception of
2143
01:44:21.069 --> 01:44:24.170
star power, you need to focus more on entrances, video packages, posing,
2144
01:44:24.689 --> 01:44:27.819
and importantly, visual appearance. I don't know who you're disagreeing with,
2145
01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:30.079
but that is what I'm advocating they do for Will Ospreay.
2146
01:44:30.420 --> 01:44:34.640
All of those things. And they're not. They do. I mean, actually,
2147
01:44:34.659 --> 01:44:38.000
when I say they're not, they're not consistently enough. Don't
2148
01:44:38.060 --> 01:44:40.409
lose sight of the fact that when he's on TV... Like,
2149
01:44:40.430 --> 01:44:42.750
they should have a clip of David Crockett going, my God, everybody,
2150
01:44:42.789 --> 01:44:44.369
Dusty Rhodes is going to be on the show later today.
2151
01:44:44.609 --> 01:44:46.449
Jim Ross, Stone Cold is going to be here tonight.
2152
01:44:47.020 --> 01:44:50.279
We got Goldberg tonight. Willie Extended Street. There are time. Eric,
2153
01:44:50.340 --> 01:44:51.760
just listen to Eric Bischoff go, this is where the
2154
01:44:51.859 --> 01:44:55.060
big boys play. And it redefined Nitro. This is where
2155
01:44:55.079 --> 01:44:58.180
the big boys play. The WBF had the lead. They
2156
01:44:58.199 --> 01:45:02.119
were the bigger brand. And sometimes you got to say
2157
01:45:02.159 --> 01:45:03.829
what you want to be before you, you know, it's
2158
01:45:03.850 --> 01:45:06.109
sort of dress for the job you want. Like, tout
2159
01:45:06.149 --> 01:45:09.689
your wrestlers ahead of their perception so that it seems
2160
01:45:09.710 --> 01:45:12.939
like they They could be, uh, Ducky D just says, um,
2161
01:45:13.579 --> 01:45:15.939
what makes the most money is not in my wheelhouse
2162
01:45:15.979 --> 01:45:18.460
or my concern, but I think there is money in marketing.
2163
01:45:18.520 --> 01:45:22.220
AW is a purist alternative to the giant soulless number
2164
01:45:22.340 --> 01:45:28.079
one company. Um, well, my, it's not a concern that
2165
01:45:28.119 --> 01:45:30.520
AW make the most money, but I want AW fans to,
2166
01:45:31.210 --> 01:45:33.569
who liked the product and the wrestlers who are sacrificing
2167
01:45:34.649 --> 01:45:36.869
to put on these great matches, to have the biggest
2168
01:45:36.909 --> 01:45:38.890
crowds possible and the most energy. I think that that
2169
01:45:38.930 --> 01:45:41.460
serves things and, and, So it's not about Tony Khan
2170
01:45:41.500 --> 01:45:42.970
making money. It's just about what's the best way to
2171
01:45:43.010 --> 01:45:46.270
present the assets that AW has. And I think we
2172
01:45:46.289 --> 01:45:49.029
can all share that as viewers of investing and watching
2173
01:45:49.050 --> 01:45:51.050
this product. Just want the most people to see it
2174
01:45:51.189 --> 01:45:52.810
and get the most out of what you have and
2175
01:45:52.829 --> 01:45:58.979
the efforts being made. Awesome. PWTorch, VIPinfo.com. Go VIP. Taylor,
2176
01:45:59.000 --> 01:46:00.779
thanks so much. Good to have you back. And we
2177
01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:01.619
look forward to your next call.
2178
01:46:02.260 --> 01:46:06.189
Yeah, happy to be back. Thanks to the chat. Nice
2179
01:46:06.229 --> 01:46:08.829
to be back. And look out for my article. It'll
2180
01:46:08.850 --> 01:46:10.350
be after every pay-per-view.
2181
01:46:10.829 --> 01:46:13.390
And go check it out if you haven't yet. PWTorch.com.
2182
01:46:13.850 --> 01:46:17.340
So much good writing. I'm so proud of the team.
2183
01:46:17.350 --> 01:46:20.180
We have articles every day that are new and original.
2184
01:46:20.680 --> 01:46:24.720
That'll get you thinking. And check it out. PWTorch.com. We've
2185
01:46:24.760 --> 01:46:28.880
got cool flashbacks and live coverage, breaking news, exclusive interviews,
2186
01:46:28.960 --> 01:46:33.659
and more. PWTorch.com. Or go VIP and get the ad-free
2187
01:46:33.699 --> 01:46:37.810
version of it, PWTorchVIPinfo.com. So much else comes with it.
2188
01:46:37.859 --> 01:46:40.119
We'd love to have you be a VIP member and
2189
01:46:40.159 --> 01:46:43.939
jump in the wrestling forum. Also, the PWTorch VIP forum
2190
01:46:44.380 --> 01:46:48.130
and join in a conversation and a close-knit, great community
2191
01:46:48.170 --> 01:46:51.130
of wrestling fans talking like we do on this show. Thanks, everybody.
2192
01:46:51.270 --> 01:46:54.390
And we'll talk to you Friday night after SmackDown here
2193
01:46:54.409 --> 01:46:55.890
on the YouTube channel or on the Wade Keller Post
2194
01:46:55.909 --> 01:46:58.390
Show feed. If you haven't yet, check out the Blue
2195
01:46:58.430 --> 01:47:01.350
Logo Show. Our flagship Greg Parks joined me for over
2196
01:47:01.369 --> 01:47:03.920
an hour and a half of discussion on many things
2197
01:47:03.960 --> 01:47:43.060
going on in WBW. Your time is valuable. Go VIP
2198
01:47:43.180 --> 01:47:48.420
and listen to our shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com
2199
01:47:48.699 --> 01:47:52.439
slash govip for full details on a commercial-free listening experience.
2200
01:47:52.810 --> 01:47:55.329
And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom
2201
01:47:55.390 --> 01:47:58.210
feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme
2202
01:47:58.529 --> 01:48:01.729
and also unlock nearly four decades of archives and access
2203
01:48:01.810 --> 01:48:07.590
our ad-free website with VIP-exclusive content. pwtorch.com slash govip Your
2204
01:48:07.609 --> 01:48:09.239
time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we
2205
01:48:09.319 --> 01:48:14.960
offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. You can participate in
2206
01:48:14.979 --> 01:48:18.390
the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast by emailing your question
2207
01:48:18.430 --> 01:48:23.220
or topic to wadekeller.com. at gmail.com. You can also participate
2208
01:48:23.260 --> 01:48:27.619
in the Wade Keller Post Shows by emailing wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com
2209
01:48:27.819 --> 01:48:31.560
during or right after Raw, Dynamite, or SmackDown. Let your voice,
2210
01:48:31.600 --> 01:48:34.199
let your opinions be heard on our shows via email,
2211
01:48:34.359 --> 01:48:39.250
wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com for the flagship and wadekellerpodcast postshow at gmail.com
2212
01:48:39.409 --> 01:48:42.890
for our post shows. It's next level coverage that you
2213
01:48:42.930 --> 01:48:46.210
come to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI,
2214
01:48:46.289 --> 01:48:51.699
no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines,
2215
01:48:51.939 --> 01:48:55.619
just high quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every
2216
01:48:55.640 --> 01:48:59.359
day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social
2217
01:48:59.380 --> 01:49:01.460
media experience that I know many of you regret once
2218
01:49:01.500 --> 01:49:04.079
you get lost in it for minutes if not hours
2219
01:49:04.119 --> 01:49:07.479
at a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded
2220
01:49:07.520 --> 01:49:11.350
wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he
2221
01:49:11.390 --> 01:49:13.430
co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well,
2222
01:49:13.470 --> 01:49:15.350
now you can listen to him every week on the
2223
01:49:15.399 --> 01:49:19.090
Nicky's Club, a VIP-exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
2224
01:49:19.210 --> 01:49:21.649
Hey, wrestling fans, it's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
2225
01:49:21.670 --> 01:49:23.750
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
2226
01:49:23.789 --> 01:49:26.710
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
2227
01:49:26.789 --> 01:49:29.710
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
2228
01:49:29.869 --> 01:49:32.069
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
2229
01:49:32.090 --> 01:49:32.609
club in town.
2230
01:49:32.869 --> 01:49:34.670
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
2231
01:49:34.710 --> 01:49:36.789
life every week, so why not let him?
2232
01:49:36.930 --> 01:49:37.710
GoVIP.
2233
01:49:37.850 --> 01:49:41.890
PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're
2234
01:49:41.909 --> 01:49:45.399
compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any
2235
01:49:45.420 --> 01:49:47.460
other iOS or Android app out there. You can also
2236
01:49:47.479 --> 01:49:50.520
stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club,
2237
01:49:50.560 --> 01:49:55.279
waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Did you
2238
01:49:55.319 --> 01:49:58.720
know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of
2239
01:49:58.760 --> 01:50:02.739
your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just
2240
01:50:02.779 --> 01:50:07.640
go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP
2241
01:50:07.680 --> 01:50:09.979
membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by the way,
2242
01:50:10.310 --> 01:50:11.649
to kick the tires a bit and see if you
2243
01:50:11.670 --> 01:50:14.390
like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and
2244
01:50:14.409 --> 01:50:17.130
you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows
2245
01:50:17.149 --> 01:50:19.630
like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
2246
01:50:19.989 --> 01:50:23.020
our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup online. Again,
2247
01:50:23.260 --> 01:50:27.000
all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
2248
01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:30.420
you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything
2249
01:50:30.439 --> 01:50:32.159
with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that
2250
01:50:32.180 --> 01:50:34.460
I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News
2251
01:50:34.500 --> 01:50:39.729
Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts
2252
01:50:39.750 --> 01:50:42.770
with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.
2253
01:50:43.149 --> 01:50:47.569
Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync
2254
01:50:47.609 --> 01:50:50.350
it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
2255
01:50:50.810 --> 01:50:54.130
Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day
2256
01:50:54.210 --> 01:50:57.470
free trial. If you're listening to us on the Apple
2257
01:50:57.489 --> 01:51:00.029
Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows
2258
01:51:00.069 --> 01:51:01.909
you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to
2259
01:51:01.930 --> 01:51:04.279
give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in
2260
01:51:04.319 --> 01:51:07.420
the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us
2261
01:51:07.560 --> 01:51:09.420
to others. Just look for a place to rate the
2262
01:51:09.460 --> 01:51:11.920
show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening
2263
01:51:11.960 --> 01:51:14.390
to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And
2264
01:51:14.399 --> 01:51:18.340
of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch
2265
01:51:18.380 --> 01:51:20.659
VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these
2266
01:51:20.699 --> 01:51:23.609
shows and a ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week,
2267
01:51:23.810 --> 01:51:26.789
but you also gain access to our unmatched, vast library
2268
01:51:26.829 --> 01:51:30.130
of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro
2269
01:51:30.170 --> 01:51:33.159
Wrestling Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late 1980s,
2270
01:51:33.529 --> 01:51:36.729
along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro
2271
01:51:36.770 --> 01:51:39.609
radio shows from the 1990s, including some of my interviews
2272
01:51:40.029 --> 01:51:43.199
with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s. And also our
2273
01:51:43.420 --> 01:51:47.140
podcast library dating back to the year 2003. There's no larger,
2274
01:51:47.579 --> 01:51:51.579
longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
2275
01:51:51.619 --> 01:51:55.689
a PWTorch VIP membership now approaching 20 years of podcasting.
2276
01:51:55.899 --> 01:51:59.529
Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage
2277
01:51:59.569 --> 01:52:03.470
of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews,
2278
01:52:03.930 --> 01:52:08.619
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. pwtorch.com
2279
01:52:08.720 --> 01:52:12.159
slash govip. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and you
2280
01:52:12.180 --> 01:52:14.479
can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card
2281
01:52:14.579 --> 01:52:17.220
or debit card in one or two minutes. From right now,
2282
01:52:17.279 --> 01:52:20.909
you can be a VIP member and diving into our library, pwtorch.com
2283
01:52:20.970 --> 01:52:21.989
slash govip.