Seth Holland

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Welcome to the Uni Community Podcast.
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This is a place where our church may look in here.
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We'll discover a lightning to discover how God is working through our many screen and missionaries both here in reality.
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From conversations with our staff and leaders and testimonies from our people, we're coming back to curtain of what God is doing in a green unity company.
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Thanks for listening.
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Let's grow closer to the Lord as we grow closer one to another.
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Welcome, I'm your host, Tim McCreasy.
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Thanks for taking a moment to listen.
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One of the things I love about hearing people's stories is seeing the unique way God works in each life.
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While our journeys are all different, God's faithfulness always remains the same.
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Today's guest has a particularly unique story raised in the Mormon faith.
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Their spiritual journey eventually led them to ask deeper questions, wrestle with important truths, and ultimately place their faith in Jesus Christ.
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Today we're going to hear about that journey, the people God used along the way, and how that experience continues to shape his faith journey today.
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So I want to welcome Seth Holland with us this morning and thank you for joining us.
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I'm so glad that uh we're gonna share this unique journey and get to hear the contrast between uh Mormonism and Christianity, and I think that'll be very enlightening for our listeners.
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I know it will be for me.
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Yeah.
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Um, because my faith is only or my background is only in Baptist, so that's that's pretty much what I know.
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Sure.
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A little bit of Catholic as an Italian, but that's that's that's another story.
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Well, let's just start with um tell us a little bit about yourself.
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How long have you been coming to Unity?
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Yeah, so my family and I have been coming to Unity, uh, I guess almost uh about four years now.
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Um we moved uh back to North Carolina from Georgia in September of uh 2019.
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Uh obviously, you know, you kind of look at that timeline, that's kind of right there before COVID.
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Um so we kind of visited several churches and and ultimately ended up uh coming to Unity after an invite from some friends of ours who we kind of met through you know daycare ultimately.
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So um, but I'm my wife Allison and I have three young children, uh Lily, Gavin, and Rinley.
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Um many of the folks within the church probably you know see our faces within the within the children's ministries here, whether we're helping Ty or working at the kids trek desk.
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Um so yeah, we've we've we've enjoyed Unity, we've loved it, uh, we love the family here, um, and it's been a it's been a great place.
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So in just a little bit, I you know, you and I have been able to talk.
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You know, I found out you were in the Air Force, so we share that same uh connection, although you were much later than my experience.
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Um that's okay.
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I know somebody that uh in our church that was Air Force Two, and they were in before I was born.
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So, you know, it's it kind of works that way.
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Um, well, let's just tell us a little bit about your, and I know there's a connection here, just a little bit you told me, but tell us a little bit about your you know, just growing up and your spiritual background and sure, sure.
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So um my my parents actually, you know, they they kind of split up.
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My mom left when I was young.
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I would have been two.
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I have one sister um who would have been four when my mom left.
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Um, you know, and you know, obviously my my dad was kind of you know left with two young children and trying to raise two young children by himself.
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So ultimately we ended up living with my my grandparents for a good extent of my life, you know, from about two to let's say 10, 11-ish.
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Um and you know, ironically, you know, my father, you know, went to uh Rhema Bible school in Oklahoma, um, was actually in the ministry for a long time, you know, with the you know, primarily with the youth, um, actually was asked to take over a small church in Springfield, Ohio, um, at the time their their pastor had left and since then needed to kind of bring in a temporary pastor.
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So we, you know, we were very involved in a what would have been a Pentecostal church, um, the primary church that we attended in Urbana, Ohio, River of Life.
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Um, their actual the past their pastor Dan Liker actually still uh ministers that church today.
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Um, you know, we were there you know every Sunday.
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Um, you know, we saw my father speak many times.
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Um so you know, we were we were we were highly involved.
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At 11, um, and I would say during that time, you know, my father, you know, it just seems very lonely, right?
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You know, he's raising two young kids by himself without a spouse.
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It's funny, you go back and you watch um, you know, videos from like Christmas, you know, when we were young, and you can just kind of see my father off to the side, and he just doesn't look happy per se.
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But he ultimately ends up meeting a woman um at at work.
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Um, they ended up, you know, they end up getting married, she becomes my stepmother.
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Um and she is her, she is LDS, she's Mormon.
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Uh her family uh is Mormon, and you know, obviously their roots within the LDS church, the Mormon church goes back many generations.
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Um a strong church within the the local LDS church there in Belfountain, Ohio.
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Um, you know, my my dad is you know smitten, if you will, and he ends up converting to Mormonism.
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Obviously, my sister and I are you know um 11 and let's say 1213 at this time.
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Um so we end up converting as well.
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We become members of the LDS Church.
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So from you know, from about let's say you know 11 or 12 all the way up until kind of mid to late 20s, um, you know, I grew up as in you know as a Mormon, if you will, um, with the LDS Church being you know a foundational piece of our of our life.
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Um so that's really kind of where my you know my I guess my my journey kind of begins during that time.
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Um and you know, ironically, you know, I in when I was stationed at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, um, I ended up meeting my my wife um who graduated from ECU.
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She's working at at then Vidant Health Center.
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Um we meet through a local or through a friend.
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Actually, my roommate has had met a girl, and ironically, these two individuals actually nanny's in college together.
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Um so she introduces us together.
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And you know, Alison at the time, well, I say at the time, even still today, uh, was very strong in her faith.
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Um she was you know she was attending church regularly, she was attending a uh a women's Bible study with her mother in Smithfield.
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Um so very grounded.
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And for me, you know, kind of like in my you know in my in my teens, you know, up into my twenties, I had I had fallen away from the church in general, just you know, my my faith.
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Um so you know, I I wasn't grounded into anything, even what I would have been grounded into, you know, the LDS church, the you know, the Mormon doctrine would not have been, you know, truthful anyways, but um I was not very grounded.
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But she had kind of um you know, she had kind of ignited and kind of sparked this um you know, this desire to me to kind of grow closer to God.
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And I was, you know, we were dating at the time, you know, I would go to church with her on Sundays, and God was starting to kind of move and work in my life, and I could feel it.
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Um things that I had kind of enjoyed doing, you know, with the the boys on the weekends was no longer you know attractive to me.
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Um so I end up ironically enough, uh, an individual, uh Staff Sergeant Ward comes to me at Seymour Johnson one night.
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We're we're working kind of our our swing shift or second shift, if you will, and he says, Hey, he's like, I was I saw this like job listing um for a position down at Robbins Air Force Base within the depot unit.
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Um he's like, you should probably apply for it.
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So I I kind of get onto the uh you know the the website, if you will, the military website where you go in and you can actually apply for positions that are open um within the within the Air Force that fall within your kind of job description or your you know your your AFSC code.
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So I get on there and apply, and I'm thinking, like, there's no way I'm gonna get this, right?
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There's probably hundreds of people that have applied for this role.
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You've got to go through an interview process.
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So I apply for the role.
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A few weeks later, my um, you know, my my flight sergeant actually gets a call from Robins Air Force Base and says, Hey, we would like to interview you.
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Seth Holland, you know, has applied for a role.
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We would like to interview you to see if maybe he might be a good fit, and then ultimately interview him.
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So we kind of go through the steps and long and behold, you know, I get I get offered the role.
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Um Allison is you know, Allison and I have just been dating, you know, not very long at the time.
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So here we are kind of, you know, we know we've been dating, you know, several months at this point, and now I'm gonna take a role into Georgia and kind of move away from North Carolina.
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But ultimately, you know, looking back at it, you can kind of see God's hand and what he was trying to accomplish.
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Um so luckily I take this role at Robbins Air Force Base as part of the aircraft battle damage repair program.
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And I'm living by myself at this point, I no longer have a roommate.
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Um, I'm with a new group of guys.
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Um and I have a lot of free time in the evenings, right?
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Um the the job itself, you know, was kind of more of a nine to five type role, if you will.
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And in my evenings, this kind of God, you know, had kind of pricked me and he was kind of drawing me near, and I was spending time kind of I'll just kind of study some stuff in scripture, right?
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And you know, when you're when you're kind of when you've had this journey in your past where you've been part of a faith, you've been part of of a of a church, if you will, and you kind of fall away a little bit, and then God starts to draw you, you tend to fall back to that which you're comfortable with.
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And ultimately that's what happened, right?
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So I'm the LDS church is what I knew, right?
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Um, so I started to attend the the uh the LDS church there in Robbins in one of Robins, Georgia.
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And I I remember I remember attending the local ward there, and um the first day, and I'm sitting there in the pews, and we sing up, we we stand up, and hymn number 27 in their hymn book um is Praise to the Man.
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And obviously the the praise to the man there is Joseph Smith Jr.
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who's the founder of the LDS Church, and I remember just being like, uh, this place is dead.
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Like this is not uh I'm not being fed.
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Um so I start to just I start to spend my evenings at that point digging into the LDS church, their core beliefs, um which takes me down several rabbit holes, right?
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There's so many ways that you can go down, go through that.
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And uh and as that time just studying scripture, particularly the the you know, the the holy scriptures, the Bible, um I've you know, I I find this passion for for God's word, um, and I'm able to kind of discern that the Book of Mormon, right?
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This Book of Mormon and God's Word, the Holy Bible, are in conflict with each other, right?
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They're not compatible.
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Um so in late 2015, uh, you know, I ultimately make the decision to um I send in a a letter to the LDS church and tell them that, hey, I need you to remove my name from from your records.
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Uh I no longer want to be a member of this church.
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So when you do that, when you send a letter, is that send off sirens to them or is that uh well, I mean, what what is the I guess maybe you were gonna get to that and I cut you off.
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Yeah, so a lot of times what happens is when a member um when a member sends in a letter to remove their name from the church, a lot of times what you'll have is the the local missionaries will kind of visit you, like, hey, what's going on?
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How can we help you?
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Um you seem to be in a a faith crisis, if you will.
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You know, how can we how can we help you through this?
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And um the actual the notification ultimately ends, you know, it makes its way back to my, you know, my I guess my home church, if you will, back in Belfountain, Ohio, where, you know, my my father and my stepmother attend.
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Um so um at that point, you know, folks are aware, you know, my parents are aware that hey, you know, uh Seth is kind of leaving the church.
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Now, lucky luckily for me, um, you know, for many folks who leave the LDS church, right, they've been members of the church for a long time, right?
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They're you know, many of them can track their genealogy all the way back to the beginning of the church in the mid-1800s, um, you know, with Joseph Smith.
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So, you know, you think about like the the LDS members in Utah Um and Idaho.
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Um, when they leave the church, it is it is a big deal.
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Um, you know, you're you're essentially outcasted from your family standpoint.
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Um, because you know, one of the foundational principles of the LDS Church is that the LDS Church, the Mormon church, is the only true church on the face of the earth, right?
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God restored um the church through Joseph Smith, um, because they believe that after Jesus Christ um was crucified and resurrected, you know, we get through the the early church, if you will, the apostles are all gone, um that the church falls into an apostate state.
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And it's not until Joseph Smith that God decides that he's gonna restore the church.
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So, you know, for them to leave the church is you know really an abomination, right?
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You're basically um committing yourself to hell at that point.
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Um so those members are outcasted and you know they lose their friends, they lose their family.
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And I went through a struggle, obviously, particularly with my my stepmother and my father.
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Um but I think they they kind of saw that you know Seth is still attending a church, which is better than nothing, right?
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Um to them.
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So it's um yeah, they try to they try to quickly pull you back in, um, Tim.
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That's that's for sure.
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So what is the um let's kind of back up maybe away from your story a little bit and more into just Mormonism in general.
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Just maybe our listeners are like me, I know very little.
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So um what are there when you say they're drifting away they're in com the core beliefs are in conflict.
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What are those conflicts?
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Yeah, so maybe it's kind of good just to kind of to touch on like how does this, where does this morning Mormon church come from?
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How does this come on the scene?
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Um and it really goes back to the early 1800s, right?
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Um the United States itself, right?
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We've kind of really just got the in the eastern part of the state here.
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Um it's kind of really broken away from from Europe.
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Um the a lot of the folks, you know, in the early 1800s are not necessarily believers, right?
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There are these charismatic um groups um throughout the uh throughout that eastern part of the country that have broken away from Europe.
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Again, it's very, very, very care charismatic, right?
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Um a lot of the discussions and the focus that is going on during that time is about the return of Christ, right, in this millennial reign.
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Um, interestingly enough, also during that time, you know, when you look at the early 1800s, um, a lot of the folks are into kind of treasure hunting, and um, you know, these you've got these folks that are going around and they're you know, they're using sear stones to kind of find treasure, or so they say.
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Um and it's just kind of it's kind of a really kind of a strange time.
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But you know, Joseph Smith is this young boy, and you know, he kind of grows up and you know, he's very uneducated.
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You know, Joseph Smith Jr.
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was a very uneducated person, could barely read or write.
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But he was a very, he was very attractive.
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He was very attracted to this kind of treasure hunting scene, right, where you're finding Native American artifacts.
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Um, and he ultimately, at the age of 14, so the story goes, Joseph Smith walks into a grove of trees in the woods, right?
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And he gets down and he prays with all of his heart.
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Um and you know, he's he's basically asking God, hey, what is the what's the one true church?
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What do I need to do to be to be, you know, which church do I need to join?
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And you know, supposedly the adversary, Satan, kind of comes upon him and he's fighting, you know, kind of with with everything he has, and this bright light appears from this grove of trees.
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Um, and you know, Joseph, you know, in his in his diaries and in his um documentation of what takes place says that this this light is brighter than the sun.
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And in this bright light, there are two individuals who he identifies as the Father and the Son.
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So, you know, God the Father and Jesus Christ.
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And they basically tell him that none of the churches are true, um, that he's not to join any of them, and that in fact, um, when the time is right, when Joseph is a little older, um, they are actually going to restore the true church on the face of the earth through Joseph Smith.
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Um, so fast forward um several years, you know, Joseph is in his early twenties at this point.
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Um he's in his you know humble cabin one night, and an angel appears to him.
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This angel that he calls Moroni.
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And if you actually look on the temples of the LDS church, there's a figure on the top of the temple who's blowing a trumpet pointing east.
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That is the angel Moroni.
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And the angel Moroni tells him about these golden plates that are hidden in this uh Gamorra Hill and um in upstate New York.
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And Joseph Smith is to go find these golden plates, he's to dig them up, and this is going to be that restoration process.
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Again, Joseph Smith, you know, at this point, you know that vision that he had or in the woods, you know, where God the Father and Jesus Christ come to him at the age of 14, he hasn't really told anybody about this.
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And all of a sudden, this angel of light appears to him and tells him about these golden plates.
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Now he starts to tell his family.
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And you would think this would be like odd, right?
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If if your child's coming to you and they're saying, Hey, I've got these visions of angels coming to me, and I'm supposed to go dig up these golden plates.
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Like, what in the world is going on here?
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But rem you gotta remember at the time, um, this was very common.
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And and Joseph, even at a young age, was very attractive or very attracted to this kind of treasure hunting idea.
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So with his so was his father.
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Um, so this really wasn't kind of fringe.
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Um, and it his family his family believes him.
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So, you know, he he uses, you know, ultimately, you know, supposedly, you know, the you know, the father kind of leads him to these golden plates, he digs them up, and he he translates these golden plates into what we know today as the as the Book of Mormon.
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Now, when you start to dig into this and you start to kind of pick it apart and you start to peel back the layers of the onion, what what you know what you understand is that there's only supposedly three people who have seen these plates ever.
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Right?
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Because after Joseph Smith supposedly translates these golden plates, um he the angel Moroni takes these plates back up to heaven, right?
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Um But they only there's only three people that have seen these, um Joseph Smith and then two of the early church uh founders, if you will.
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:13.039
And when you look into um the early church founders who say that you know they saw these plates, what you actually when you kind of really dig into there um what they say about the golden plates is that they only saw them in vision.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.119
They never actually physically saw them.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:27.279
So Joseph, Joseph, you know, he's in his twenties, he's translating these plates using a kind of a brown egg-size sear stone, right, that he places into a hat.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:34.240
And you know, supposedly Joseph doesn't even have to look at the golden plates, um, he just looks into the sear stone.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:46.160
Uh this stone lights up and he translates the Book of Mormon, which was supposedly written in reformed um hieroglyphics or Egyptian hieroglyphics.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:53.359
Um so he you know, he translates these and he he he he translates he trying we have this Book of Mormon.
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:59.680
And I will say the only thing about the Mor the Book of Mormon that is uh similar to the Bible is just the way.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.759
Broken up into books, right?
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:07.359
Um, so you know, you've got first and second Nephi and Alma and these other books that are within there.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:26.160
And supposedly these golden plates describe a story in which the Israelites or a group of a family of Israelites is kind of led out of you know, led out of Israel before the destruction of the first temple, if you will.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:33.039
Um, and they they end up in, I believe what the church believes is kind of Oman.
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:42.319
They build a ship and they make their way to uh the Americas, somewhere kind of Central North America to um South America.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:54.480
And it's the church's belief that those, you know, those Israelites are, you know, basically are Native Americans that we have in North America descendants from from that group.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:23:06.000
And so you read this Book of Mormon, and as you're reading it, it's talking about the story of these family that ultimately gets divided in in the Americas, and there's these prophets, and there's constant battles.
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:13.680
Um that's where, you know, that's really kind of where the book, the the Mormon church starts.
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.640
Um, is this you know young Joseph Smith Jr.
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.720
who you know is is kind of started this this religion, right?
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:27.519
Um and ultimately, you know, what you realize is that do I believe that an angel appeared to Joseph Smith?
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:29.839
Well, it's it's very possible, right?
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:36.000
Because you know, the Bible tells us that you know even Satan himself and his his demons can appear as angels of light.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:47.519
Um, you know, you when you look at Islam and Mohammed, you know, Muhammad has this very similar kind of experience where he goes up to a mountain and right, and this angel appears to him and tells him to translate and he struggles with this angel.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:56.640
Um, so it's very possible that you know it's uh my personal belief is that it is you know it's this kind of almost satanic experience that Joseph has.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:04.079
Um and he's able to he's able to lead the church, he's able to, you know, kind of pull people into this religion.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:11.359
Um, and it builds and it grows over time, and ultimately, you know, God tells them that they're to move out west, right?
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.720
Because they're getting persecuted on the east coast, people don't want them, right?
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.359
The the early beliefs are strange, right?
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:18.799
They're very polygamistic.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.720
Um, you know, a lot of the early church founders have you know multiple, multiple wives.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.759
Joseph Smith Jr.
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.400
had multiple wives, some of them very young.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:31.519
And as they they kind of move from town to town, city to city, and these folks don't want them there, right?
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:33.759
They don't want anything to do with this, we don't want a part of that.
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.000
So, you know, they're being attacked.
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:46.480
Um Joseph Smith himself, you know, is ultimately you know killed, um, is actually, you know, kind of tarred and feathered, if you will, and burnt.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.160
And um, but the church kind of remains, right?
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:55.759
They move all the way out to Utah, um, where they lay down roots um and they kind of grow.
00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:01.440
And the church today, I believe, has roughly 17 million members worldwide.
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:05.119
Um, so a very it's a very large church.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:16.640
Um, and I think the thing that makes it attractive to some people is that the church is very family-oriented.
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:34.960
Um right, the the Mormon people themselves, and I've tried to make this clear anytime I talk about Mormonism or the LDS church, my goal is to not attack the people, um, but rather the the religion and the beliefs themselves, um, and the fact that you know Joseph Smith Jr.
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.759
was a false prophet who led millions of people astray.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.200
Um, but the the LDS people themselves are, I mean, these are moral people, right?
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:47.839
If you if you're living in a in a community, you want your neighbors to be LDS, right?
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:48.960
Like they're they're just good people.
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.039
They're gonna look after you, they're gonna bring you food, right?
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:56.559
You're not gonna have to worry about you know having a party next door where people are drinking and acting crazy around your children, right?
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.960
These are they're they're very good people from a moral standpoint.
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:12.880
So um, but you know, I think this idea of like this family and one of the core beliefs is that families can live together for eternity for eternal for eternity.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:16.000
Um, but you have to go through certain steps to do it.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:31.119
But, you know, going back to to my journey, you know, I, you know, when I was kind of when I was in Georgia and I'm sitting here studying and I'm attending the local LDS church, but I'm also studying my scriptures and I'm trying to figure out what is going on, right?
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:34.559
You know, I'm just kind of being pulled in direct in multiple directions.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.720
It felt like I start to ask questions, you know, well, what about this?
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.839
The Bible says this, there's this core belief on this.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:51.200
And one of the things that just was kind of the there's two things that are really the nail in the coffin for me that I was like, okay, Joseph Smith is 100% a false prophet.
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.640
I've got to get, I've got to get, I've got to separate myself away from this.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:59.920
And and one of them is found in Isaiah, and I've got my Bible here in front of me.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.640
In Isaiah chapter 11, verse 1.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:17.039
Um, I actually saw a study on this in early uh 2015, and I start to dig into it and I start to pick in, you know, just kind of pick this apart, and this is kind of like, okay, yeah, this this Joseph Smith guy is not who he says he is.
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:24.720
Um in Isaiah chapter 11, it says, A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse, from his roots a branch will bear fruit.
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:36.160
The spirit of the Lord will rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of might, the spirit of the knowledge and the fear of the Lord, and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:54.319
And you kind of skip forward from you know verse one through verse three, and you kind of jump over to verse 10, and it says, In that day the root of Jesse will stand as a banner of the people, the nations will rally on him, and his resting place will be glorious.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:06.720
Now, within you know, Christian commentary, um, there's no question about who this stump is, the stump of Jesse.
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.640
All right, this is 100% talking about David.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:16.160
Um, so you know, we have Jesse, you know, through Jesse's line, we have David.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:31.599
Um, and it says in in Isaiah chapter 11, this stump um is basically, you know, we can read in even Psalms, David identifies himself as this green olive tree that ultimately gets cut down, right?
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.920
God kindles fired against it, and he killed and he and he um he cuts it down.
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:51.599
And you know, we see this through, you know, through the reign of Zedekiah, and obviously, you know, during that time, Nebuchadnezzar, you know, the um you know the the Israelites are cast into Babylon, and this kind of time, this kind of time ends.
00:28:51.839 --> 00:29:06.559
Yeah, this is good stuff because we just this past Monday were talking about that verse in our um Monday night uh Bible study that we do as with Terry Lee Koble and you know going chronologically through the Bible.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.480
So that's where we're at right now.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.599
And uh we had a good discussion about that stump and the root uh sprouting off.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:33.039
Yeah, so it's and so you you kind of you kind of study this, and obviously, you know, David's line, you know, David is planted as this green olive tree, but ultimately gets cut down, and obviously, you know, throughout the line of David, there are um you know, there are good good people during that reign, right?
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.119
Good kings, if you will, you know, think of Josiah and some others.
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:42.559
Obviously, there are very wicked people as well, and and God cuts down the tree, right?
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.359
The the Davidic line, he cuts that down.
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:48.000
But it says that a branch will bear fruit.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:54.160
This there's this branch that sprouts forth from this dead, decaying stump, right?
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:04.400
And um and you look at this, and ultimately the the one of the fountain, one of the things that's so this the Bible is amazing about, right?
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.920
This is the first hyperlinked text ever, I'm convinced, right?
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:14.640
Um, because you can kind of go back, it doesn't matter if you're in the Old Testament or New Testament, there's these things that go back and forth, and it's it's all hyperlinked, right?
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:22.559
Um but in Matthew chapter 2, verse 23, you got to try to identify who is this branch, right?
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:28.319
Who is this branch that sprouts forth from this dead, decaying stump, right?
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.880
And obviously for Christians, this is obvious, right?
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.799
This this branch that sprouts forth is ultimately Jesus Christ.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:45.279
Um but in in Matthew chapter 2, verse 23, it says that um it says that he went and lived in a town called Nazareth.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:50.559
So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets that they would that he would be called a Nazarene.
00:30:50.799 --> 00:31:13.039
Well, when you go through the Old Testament and you look at prophetic, you know, all the all the prophecy, there's only one place that really that kind of hints that the Messiah is going to be is going to become from Nazareth or be called a Nazarene, and it's from Isaiah chapter 11, because that branch, that word, that word in Hebrew, that word branch there is Netzer, uh Netzeret.
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:20.079
And you know, we know that you know the lineage of David, you know, you can continue all the way, all that down.
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:27.200
Um, you know, they kind of, I guess if you will, found this area that they call Naz Nazareth.
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:31.039
Um that's derived from the word Netzer, the word branch.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.799
Um Revelation 22, verse 16, right?
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:39.920
So what how do we make this clear who this who this branch is?
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:46.559
Well, there's we could spend a whole hour 10 probably talking about this, but we'll kind of keep it.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:47.680
Well it's fascinating.
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:49.599
Yeah, we're we'll keep it short.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:51.440
So Revelation 22.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.759
We needed we needed you Monday night.
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:55.839
Revelation 22.
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.640
Jesus says, this is this is Jesus speaking um to John.
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:07.839
He says, I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright and morning star.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:15.039
All right, and we can read in Romans uh chapter 15, verses 8 through 9, verse 12, that kind of even kind of expand on this.
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.880
Paul talks about this even more.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:25.359
Um there's no question biblically who this branch is.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:51.440
And the thing that kind of threw me off, and I remember, I remember being in Belfoun um as a teenager early in the morning, we go to church before school, and we're um we're in what like what they call like their seminary, if you will, you know, and we're we we like we have our sun, we have our early morning teachings, and I kind of pulled up a few things just uh right, if you're gonna if you're gonna say something about the church, right, you gotta bring receipts.
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:55.119
Um so I kind of kind of brought a few things here.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:10.000
But one of the things they teach is a core principle of the LDS Church within their within their Mormon doctrine, like common, you know, their Bible, if you will, excluding the the Old Testament, New Testament.
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.599
They they call it like a three-pack.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:16.319
So it's comprised of the Book of Mormon, the Doctor of Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:27.519
Um, but in Doctrine and Covenants, um, again, this is like this is doctrinal beliefs taught by Joseph Smith and the early church um fathers, if you will.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:40.079
But in section 11 uh or sec, sorry, section 113, uh, one through six, um, Joseph Smith answers some questions with regards to Isaiah chapter 11.
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:57.279
And one of the questions in Doctrine and Covenants, again, this is directly from from Mormon scripture, it says, Who is the stem, the stump of Jesse, spoken of in first, second, third, fourth, and fifth verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:10.159
All right, so we know, all right, we can prove it without a shadow of a doubt that the stump, the dead, decaying stump in Isaiah chapter 11 is David.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:10.639
Right?
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:12.079
It's the Davidic line.
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:18.159
Um there could be obviously, you know, you could consider that Israel itself, if you will.
00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:29.199
Um Joseph Smith, his answer in Doctrine and Covenants, verily, thus saith the Lord.
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:30.239
Oh, okay.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:31.760
So this has got some weight behind it, right?
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:32.719
Buckle up, right?
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.000
He's he's speaking, he's speaking as a prophet now, right?
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.559
God is speaking through him at this point.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:44.320
Um, I don't know about you, Tim, but I've never in my past, and I hope I never do in the future.
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:49.039
If somebody asks me a question, say, Thus saith the Lord, because that's a big weight to hold.
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.280
Yeah, unless I'm quoting scripture.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.480
Yeah, exactly, unless I'm quoting scripture directly.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:11.199
Um He says, What is so that he basically says that the dead decaying stump in Isaiah, thus saith the Lord, is Jesus Christ.
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:13.519
And you're thinking, What?
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:19.840
The dead decaying stump in eleven is Jesus Christ.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:20.800
Okay.
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:22.320
Alright.
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:26.400
And then it says, you preaching in Doctor Covenants, it gets interesting, right?
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:30.159
He says, the next question posed is, what is the rod?
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:35.119
And now the rod is kind of King's, you know, kind of King Jamian language, if you will.
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:42.880
Um, you know, and you know, depending on your translation of scripture, rod, branch are kind of are kind of interchanged there.
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:44.800
Um, but what is the rod spoken of?
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:51.440
So that shoot that springs forth from the from the roots of that um that felled tree.
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:57.119
Um what is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the eleventh chapter of Isaiah that should come of the stem of Jesse?
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:14.800
Again, behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse, as well as Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on where there is laid much power.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:21.920
And again, anybody who knows their scriptures has to question this, right?
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:28.559
Isaiah chapter 11 is talking about the Messiah coming forth through the line of David.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:41.199
And somehow Joseph Smith has tied in the Davidic line through Jesse David and also kind of blended in the house of Joseph, right, through Ephraim.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:44.320
Right, there's these are two separate groups, right?
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:49.199
You know, Jesus is from the house of Judah, he's not from the house of Ephraim, right?
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.119
This doesn't make any sense.
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:59.360
But ultimately, what Joseph Smith gets at, um, and he says this in his JST Bible, all right.
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.000
This is Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible.
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:14.000
He says, I, Joseph of Egypt, the son of Jacob, have obtained a promise of the Lord that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins.
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:18.079
Um in his name, and I kind of skip down here, I won't read this whole thing.
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:24.400
He says, and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father.
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:27.760
Well, Joseph Smith Jr., right?
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:29.360
His father was named Joseph.
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:38.719
Ultimately, what Joseph Smith does here, he says that the dead decaying stump is Jesus Christ, and this branch that shoots forth is Joseph Smith.
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.239
And I'm like, it's like a gut punch at this point.
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:44.480
I'm like, this is like, this is blasphemy.
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:45.360
There's no other way around it.
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.360
Is this stuff that uh, you know, you were learning in Sunday school as a kid?
00:37:49.840 --> 00:38:16.960
Um, you know, ultimately, um, so there's a what the what the church has like in October of 2017, which is one of their earliest kind of manuscripts that they use for like their training in Sunday school, um, there's actually a section in there where it asks these questions and it asks the the teacher, the class teacher to actually draw and sketch out this stump, and it points to the stump and says, Who is this?
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:19.360
And this is this is Jesus Christ.
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:21.119
This dead decaying stump is Jesus Christ.
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.559
Who is a sprout that that that kind of goes forth?
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.880
Um, you know, this is Joseph Smith.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.960
He's the man, he's the man, right?
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.840
Um so this is what they teach, right?
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.480
This is a foundational doctrine of of theirs.
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:52.320
And it's at that point that I'm just like, wow, this like this guy is so bold and embraced and to say that you know my savior, Jesus Christ, is this dead decaying stump, and somehow this branch that shoots forth is himself.
00:38:52.719 --> 00:39:07.679
Um and and you see that even you know, even today, you know, the church, you know, kind of their hierarchy is God the Father, Jesus Christ, and then right, I mean, right below Jesus Christ is Joseph Smith.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:18.960
Um so anyways, this is kind of one of the one of the nails in the coffin for me where I'm like, yeah, I can't can't partake of this anymore.
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:34.960
And I remember being in my apartment by myself um during this time, and basically, you know, kind of getting getting down and asking God, like, I don't like I don't just there's a lot I have to figure out.
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:38.239
Um I'm gonna trust that you're gonna help me through this.
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:45.840
But um ultimately what I know is that I need I need Jesus Christ.
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.960
I need uh salvation that only He can provide.
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:53.440
Um and that's kind of where my salvation starts at that point.
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:57.679
And you know, I'm you know, I'm like I'm like crying at this point, right?
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.239
Because I'm just kind of I'm kind of overwhelmed.
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:08.400
And you know, I can I know that God is kind of pricking my heart and He's kind of opened my ears and He's softened my heart to kind of to His Word.
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:33.760
Um so I'm kind of overwhelmed with you know happiness and joy and also frustration that you know um you know here's my my stepmother and my father are members of this of this church and I was for this long time and here it's led by you know a false prophet or was led by a false prophet, and it's they still have what they call uh prophets, uh a prophet today who leads the church, they're their president.
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:43.519
So it was a confusing time, but also um you know, a time where you know God ultimately led to me, led me to salvation salvation.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:41:00.400
So when you have this um awakening, I don't know, it may or not be the wrong word, uh, but when you come to this realization that, hey, uh this no way, do you call your dad, call your girlfriend here?
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:02.480
What are you doing with that information?
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:06.400
So it's yes, so Alison and I are, you know, we're still dating at the time.
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:12.320
We're not in we haven't been in, you know, we haven't I haven't asked her to marry me, so we're not engaged at this time.
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:32.239
And I told her, and I was going through this initially, like my thought was I'm gonna go back to the LDS church, and I told Allison, hey, like she knew I was like studying my scriptures a lot and I was doing a lot of studying, and I tell her, like, hey, I've you know, I started to attend the LDS church here, and I think I'm gonna get really back into the you know the the Mormon church.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:39.760
And for her, that was like a big red flag, like it almost ended our um our relationship at that point, right?
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.679
Because she was very grounded in her faith.
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:45.920
Uh her parents were very, you know, she grew up in church, her parents were very grounded.
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:50.400
Um, this was kind of a uh this was kind of a the line in the sand for her.
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:55.199
Um she kind of she kind of stuck with me through this journey.
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:01.840
Um as I continued to kind of dig in, and I'm sure, you know, I know she was praying, her parents were praying hard for me.
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:07.920
Um But I have conversations, but but at the same time, I'm having conversations with my dad.
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Um, and he's like, What is going on?
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:10.639
Like, what?
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.360
I mean, this my son's going crazy, right?
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:20.000
So he kind of pulls in some other folks from the church that you know, the the branch that he attends in Bellfoun, Ohio.
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:24.639
And I remember one night he pulls an individual, um, I remember brother Rajeri.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.679
I remember him.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.400
He's actually a uh he was a surgeon at the local uh hospital there in Bellfoun.
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.679
Um, just a very, very kind individual.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:43.840
Um, you know, his him and his family go back way through the church, and you know, he served a mission, and um, I think he's like was one of the first or second counselors at the branch there in Bellfoun.
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:51.280
My dad pulls me into a phone conversation with him, and I'm having a conversation, and I'm asking him these questions, right?
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.280
Like, what about this?
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:56.000
You know, I don't I don't understand, I don't understand this.
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:59.199
This seems to be in conflict with the Bible.
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:03.920
And I remember those conversations being on the phone with him.
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:19.840
Instead of like when you ask somebody a question related to scripture or rated related to you know um beliefs and theology, you expect that they're going to open up God's word to kind of explain themselves.
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:27.039
And he opens up, he's like, Well, let's go and see what the uh what if the what does the church fathers have said about this?
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:32.639
And he opens up like an enzyme, which is like their it's like a magazine that goes out that the church sends out.
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:50.320
And this is this is important about the LDS Church is that they ex explicitly tell their members that they're not to go out searching and they're not to use material to study biblical um topics unless they're church approved.
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:50.719
Right?
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:55.360
So much like um the like the Jehovah Witnesses, right?
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:57.679
And they're kind of very similar in that aspect.
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:13.760
So he's like he opens up, you know, he's like Like teaching from this enzyme, in which, like, you know, um, you know, one of the early counselors or the twelve of the apostles, like the twelve apostles, because they, you know, that the church is broken into you have a president, a first and second counselor of the church.
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:17.599
The pre the the president is a prophet, right?
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:23.440
Below those, um, the first and second counselor, you have the quorum of the twelve or twelve apostles, right?
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:30.079
That they think is a parallel to the twelve apostles that you know that that that God chose.
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:31.920
I can assure you they're not.
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:36.800
But anyway, so he's like pulling stuff, he's like, Well, this is what they say, and this is what they say.
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:42.719
And in my mind, I'm thinking all he can do is point to something that man said, right?
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:52.960
The whole church, its belief system, the religion is built on the ever shaking sands of man's word and not God's word, right?
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.199
And that's where they get themselves into trouble.
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:59.440
Um, and every false religion out there is the same, you know.
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:13.760
Um, I don't care if it's you know Mormonism, I don't care if it's Islam, you know, Catholicism has the same problem where their beliefs are founded on early church fathers and those doctrines of man and not the doctrines of God's word.
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:20.239
Um we see this even in, you know, Jesus is combating this during his ministry on earth with the Pharisees, right?
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:36.000
Um surely they hold to, you know, the Old Testament and the Torah, but they also hold to uh the Takenot and the man-made religion or their man-made rules and regulations that they created, right?
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.199
Um and you can't do that.
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.079
Uh it doesn't last, uh, it doesn't hold up.
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:59.519
Um so he's, you know, this this individual that my my dad has kind of connected me with is all we can do is just kind of teach what church members and church fathers have have said, and I'm I'm just kind of you know, in the back of my mind, I'm kind of rolling my eyes saying that this is just nonsense at the end of the day.
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:07.920
Um but so I you know ultimately I ended up I ended up joining a a church in Warner Robbins, Georgia, a Makato Baptist.
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:11.119
Um, and I kind of got plugged in real quick, right?
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:13.679
I'm sure I'm joining every Sunday morning.
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.360
We had a Sunday night service.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:25.039
When you when you join before you I'm sorry to cut you off, but when you join that church, after you're having those phone calls, you just say, Dad, forget it.
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:33.679
Yeah, so um at some point, you know, I think my dad was like, Well, we're just not gonna talk about this anymore, right?
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.039
Because he's getting frustrated, right?
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:38.159
Because he feels like I'm attacking him and his beliefs.
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:41.199
And then my stepmother certainly felt attacked, right?
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:48.400
Because her parents were members, her parents' parents were members, and this is um, so he felt attacked.
00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:53.360
And so, but I continue to have biblical conversations with my father, regardless.
00:46:53.679 --> 00:47:01.920
Now, I kind of shifted it away from this LDS belief or this Mormon doctrine versus what the Bible says.
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:07.679
We just have general Bible conversations, and that's today, still today.
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:08.880
Uh even today.
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:11.440
Oh, my dad and I have a lot of Bible discussions.
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:19.280
But and and I'm just kind of like, you know, because at this point, like I've got to kind of ground myself in God's word.
00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:23.039
So I start, I start reading from Genesis forward, right?
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:30.000
And I'm kind of reading, you know, um, the Old Testament and I'm digging in, I'm asking questions, and I'm kind of doing my due diligence.
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:45.119
And one of the things that kind of intrigued me earlier, just reading the Bible and you know, reading the Old Testament in general, you get to Leviticus chapter 23, and it's talking about the uh this there's this Hebrew word Moadim, the appointed times of God, where it talks about the feast and festivals, you know.
00:47:45.599 --> 00:48:09.199
So you have these four feasts in the spring, you know, Passover, first fruits, or Passover unleavened bread, first fruits, and then Shava, or what we know as Pentecost in the New Testament, these three feasts and the uh in the fall, you got Yomchurah, the Feast of Trumpets, um, you've got the the Day of Atonement, and then um the the Feast of Tabernacles.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.599
And I've like, I'm intrigued by these.
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:19.760
Like, I I still I love talking about those feasts today and their prophetic um shadow picture that they point to Christ ultimately.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.800
Um, but I'm having conversations with my dad about that, and he's like, Oh, this is really interesting.
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:32.000
And we have other conversations about about scriptures, um, you know, things, and this goes on for years.
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:40.719
I mean years, you know, so from you know, 2015 up until um, I guess it would have been late 2024.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:47.199
All right, I'm just having conversations with my father, and sometimes these conversations would go like two hours, and my wife's like, What in the world are you doing?
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:48.480
Like, can you can you wrap up?
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:50.159
Like, I'd like to spend a little time with you.
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:50.480
Right.
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.199
But um I'm doing the Lord's work here, honey.
00:48:53.360 --> 00:49:07.599
Um, you know, and he's in my dad at some point during that, probably early 2024, late 2023, my dad is like really asking questions.
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:15.199
Um, and he's starting to do his own studies and investigation into the church, and there are things for him that aren't lining up.
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:33.039
And part of the problem is that a lot of these foundational doctrines of the LDS church that the church itself in this modern era has kind of gotten away from because they know they're a little bit fringe, or you know, it's a little bit, oh, this isn't taken, this isn't going to be taken too well by the Christian community.
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:39.840
Um, so you don't, you know, every Sunday, if you will, they're not being taught these types of things.
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:41.920
They kind of stay on the surface level.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:47.840
But my dad starts to dig deep into these foundational truths that the church that was founded on.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:51.840
And again, my dad has a Bible background, right?
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:58.239
You know, he went to Bible school and he, you know, he was doing some ministry work for a while, and all of a sudden, like lights are going off.
00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.519
You know, ooh, ooh, ooh, like, what is this about?
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.239
He starts to dig and dig and dig, and he starts to ask questions.
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:08.320
And again, my dad is highly involved.
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.320
Like, he is the second counselor uh of the branch at this time.
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:17.440
He's you know, he's served in multiple roles within the church at a fairly high level.
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:22.559
And he's going to like some of his friends of the church and he's asking them these questions, like, What is this?
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:23.599
Like, what is this doctrine?
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:25.760
He's like, This is the first time I've heard about this.
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:27.440
Um, what is this?
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:33.360
And they're like explaining things to him, and he's just like, Oh, this is something's not right here.
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:39.039
And during his journey, you know, my stepmother is very angry at this point, right?
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:41.599
Like, this is this is a no-go for her.
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:55.119
Um, and ultimately, you know, in early 2025 or late 2024 time frame, I can't remember exactly, but my dad, my dad leaves the church.
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:55.760
Wow.
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.679
Um, and cost him his marriage.
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:03.119
Um, my you know, my mother and uh my stepmother and my father have since divorced.
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:10.559
Um, you know, my stepmother basically said that I'm not, I can't be married to an individual who's not a part of the priesthood of the church and and so forth.
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:12.639
So I mean it cost him his marriage.
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:21.840
Um, but my I mean my bad my dad today, you know, he's he know he attends a a local church in Urbano, Ohio, um is in the scriptures every single day.
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:23.360
Um Praise the Lord.
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:26.800
And it's uh it was a it was a journey for us both.
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:40.000
And I, you know, you know, ultimately God kind of worked on me first and then you know he kind of used me just to have some simple conversations at night um with my father that would you know ultimately lead him back to truth.
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:51.360
So now we can I would say fast forward, but it's really rewind back to you're in Georgia um attending a new church, Baptist Church.
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:53.440
Yeah, yeah, I'm a Cotto Baptist.
00:51:53.599 --> 00:52:01.440
Um and I'm you know I'm plugged in, I'm attending regularly, I'm attending the uh you know, every Wednesday, they have these small group sessions that you could join.
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:05.280
And I'm you know, I'm I'm kind of kind of sold out.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:13.920
Um and you know, ultimately, you know, I Alice and I get engaged, we get married, um, she moves down to Georgia, we we attend Mikado.
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:20.800
Um and man, it's it was it was kind of uh it was an adventure.
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:36.639
Um it was tough at times, but uh gosh, to see God's hand move in my life, um, to kind of connect me with Allison, who was strong in her faith, to kind of start to soften my heart, to say, hey Seth, you've got to make some changes here.
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:52.239
Um, and to allow me to get a a a role within the military where I was gonna be by myself and I was gonna have ample amount of time to start to dig into some of the questions I had, um is is remarkable.
00:52:52.559 --> 00:53:03.440
That goes back to uh you know, God will search us out, and uh He loves us that much, he's gonna put us, you know, where we can find him.
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:05.119
So that's that's awesome.
00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:06.880
That's really incredible story.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.320
So you all get married, and then why do you come to Greenville?
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:13.440
Yeah, so um I I get out of the military.
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:22.400
Ironically, um I get orders to Koonsan Air Force Base Um in South Korea, and obviously it's an unaccompanied tour.
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:32.880
My report no, I'm at the end of my enlistment, so I'm gonna have to either re-enlist or extend to take the orders because my enlistment would have would have ended during the the year tour there in Koonsan.
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:36.320
Um Allison's pregnant.
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:44.639
My report no later than date to Koonsan Air Force Base is to the very day that my first child's gonna be born.
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.119
And I'm like wrestling this within my mind.
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:56.800
Um, you know, luckily I I was I was blessed to be able to complete my all of my schooling in military um to get my degree through Embry Riddle.
00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:01.360
And I'm kind of like, what do I do here?
00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:04.079
Like I'm gonna miss the first year of my child.
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:15.280
So I put in a request to the base commander in Coonsan Um through my leadership at Robbins to basically ask, hey, can I skip this rotation and pick up the next?
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:24.880
Based on my job code AFSC, you know, I'm a you know, for a tactical aircraft maintenance technician, I'm going to go to Coonsan at some point.
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:26.079
There's no way around it.
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:27.280
That's the path, right?
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:28.559
You've got to do that tour.
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:33.039
But I asked them if I could skip this rotation, pick up the next, and ultimately they deny it.
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:35.360
So Allison and I are kind of praying about this.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:36.800
Hey, what do we do?
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.719
Um, Allison's honestly ready to get back to North Carolina.
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:45.280
You know, she's a her and her family, her mother are extremely close.
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:46.800
Um, she wants to get back home.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:50.079
She wants to get back home to her family, to her friends.
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:54.079
Um, so I decide to deny the orders.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.159
Once you deny orders in the military, you know, that's that's basically it.
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:01.360
And once you hit the end of your enlistment, there's no re-enlistment at that point.
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:02.960
Um, so that's what happens.
00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:04.400
I deny the orders.
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:07.840
Um in September of 2019.
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:10.800
Um my time in the Air Force ends.
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:13.199
We've moved back to Greenville.
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:23.440
Um, and we meet, you know, some friends through through daycare, um, and they invite us to to come to Unity Church.
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:28.079
Like, hey, you know, they knew that we were kind of searching out multiple churches within the local area.
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:34.639
I never found one that I was kind of like, ah, this is it, this is where we should attend.
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:44.239
Um, but you know, the Ware family, um, you know, Justin and his wife Ashley, Ashley Ware, they invite us to come to Unity.
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:53.760
We come and, you know, we kind of, you know, you know, you know when you kind of walk into a church, um, you know, you listen to Pastor Jeff preach.
00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:58.800
Um, you kind of meet the folks, and you just like, okay, this is home.
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:02.000
Okay, this is where this is where we need to be.
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:08.239
Um, so we attend for a while and ultimately decide that, yeah, we need to, we need to join.
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:14.880
Um and you you know, the funny thing is, like, we're you know, we're going through the discussions with Pastor Jeff.
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:22.079
Um, you know, we take the new members class and you know, it gets to the question about being baptized.
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:27.280
Well, you know, I was I was baptized into the LDS church as a young, you know, young kid.
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:32.320
And I never really talked about my LDS background when I was in Georgia at Makato.
00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:51.119
Um, because there's this when you tell it seems to me that like when you tell somebody that, hey, this individual's from the Mormon church or he comes from the LDS, you like there's this like stigmatism, you know, you know, about you, and people are like, Oh, okay, we've got to be a little bit weary about maybe some things that he believes and so forth.
00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:54.079
So I never really told any told told anybody at Mikado.
00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:00.400
And um, but I was a member of that church I joined, you know, and they asked me, Hey, have you been baptized?
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:02.559
in my mind at the time, I was like, Yeah, I've been baptized.
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:04.960
You know, I was baptized when I was you know 11.
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:07.360
Um, but I didn't really talk about it.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:14.559
And so we're going through the new members class and we're talking to Pastor Jeff, and he gets to this, hey, you know, have you been, you know, what's your salvation story?
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:15.360
Have you been saved?
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:16.239
Are you baptized?
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:17.440
You know, have you been baptized?
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:26.079
And then we get to the baptism question, and I'm like, okay, yeah, we gotta probably probably talk about this uh cesspast, you know, thing.
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:27.599
And so we kind of get into it.
00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:35.599
I kind of explained to him my salvation story, and you know, we both agree that yeah, you probably need to be you need to be baptized again.
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:37.360
Um so I'm baptized here at Makato.
00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:39.599
You know, I was able to be baptized here at Mikato.
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:43.199
And um You were baptized at Makato or at Unity.
00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:46.559
I'm sorry, at Unity, sorry, at Unity, sorry, um, at Unity.
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:57.119
Um so yeah, and I've I've since been able to kind of open up a lot more about you know the the Mormon church and you know my my beliefs.
00:57:57.199 --> 00:58:06.800
And I I hope that folks when they when they have conversations with me about topics that you know they say, you know, that they're like, okay, this guy is actually pretty well grounded in scripture.
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:11.280
Um because I I am passionate about it and I I love it, I enjoy it.
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:14.960
But um, so but I've kind of changed that mindset.
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:18.000
Like, hey, this is a salvation story that's probably worth sharing.
00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:22.159
Well, you've done an excellent job of kind of sharing your story.
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.440
I didn't even um, you know, I sent you a question sheet.
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:29.760
Uh we never we didn't go through it, uh, but that's okay.
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:32.079
Uh, but I do have a question.
00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:40.639
I mean, in my head, I'm thinking, you know, people hear stuff and now, you know, I've heard this our podcast, I'm an expert.
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:53.280
You know, if I get a knock on the door this afternoon, you know, how am I gonna want, and it's uh two Mormons wanting to, you know, bring me into the faith.
00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:59.360
I don't think I want to breach this subject of Isaiah 11.
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:00.000
No.
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:02.239
It's it's tough.
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:29.599
Ultimately, from my experience, those who are like really grounded in the LDS church, like this is their this is their faith, um, they are they're hard to have a conversation with because for the simple fact that you know that they use a lot of the same words and the terminology that we use, and they believe, you know, ultimately the church does believe that there's a saving, saving faith through Jesus Christ.
00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:32.800
But there's all these other things that you have to do, right?
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:35.840
You have to be a member of the church, you have to be baptized in the church.
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:44.400
The church actually gifts you through the laying on of hands by the by the priesthood, the gift of what they call the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit.
00:59:44.719 --> 00:59:54.239
And then in order to ultimately reach salvation at the highest level for them, right, you've got to go through these ordinances at the temple.
00:59:54.559 --> 01:00:01.360
Um so it's faith in Jesus Christ plus all of these things.
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:18.559
So when I when I tell people like, hey, if you're gonna have a conversation with the uh the um the missionaries who come to your door, like the two young men or two young women who knock on your door, keep it focused on the salvation of through Jesus Christ and through Jesus Christ alone, right?
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:25.840
We are saved through Christ and Christ alone, not through works lest any man should boast, right?
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:33.039
So this idea that we have to do all of these additional things to receive salvation is not biblical.
01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:38.800
And it's easy to prove anyone who's grounded in their faith um could can easily prove it, you know.
01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:45.440
You know, you can take them through the uh through Romans, of course, and um and kind of show them this.
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:53.599
But for those that are really grounded in the LDS church, obviously they're gonna push back and they're gonna tell you, well, this we believe that same thing, right?
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:58.239
Um we believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, that he came to die for our sins.
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:08.559
But ultimately it's really when you kind of really pick it apart and dig into it, it's a little bit of a different version of Jesus Christ than what um the pictures the the scriptures point to.
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:15.119
So So if I were just to ask the question to them, like we're you know, they're saying, Oh yeah, through Jesus.
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.119
Could I just ask the simple question, is it through Jesus and Joseph?
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:24.880
I would say, I would say the the best question to ask them is how how is it that you know you're saved?
01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:29.440
What's your how do you know that you have salvation and that you're gonna make it to heaven one day?
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:43.360
And they're gonna tell you that, well, hey, I've put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ, but they're also going to have to explain to you their other beliefs about um being baptized into the church and that they're obedient, right?
01:01:43.519 --> 01:01:58.400
And then they they obey God and they do all these good works and all these good things that ultimately God will judge them on, and at the end he's gonna tell them, Yeah, you you good and faithful servant, you may enter into my kingdom because you've done A, B, C, D, and E.
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:02.559
Um, and then you can say, Hmm, that's interesting, right?
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:06.719
Um, actually, you know, I'm I'm a saved individual.
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:14.800
Um, I also believe that I'm saved through the atonement of Jesus Christ, but I believe that I'm saved through through grace and faith in Him alone.
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:19.840
Uh, you know, um and you can kind of point them to scripture and you can have a conversation around around it.
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:27.760
And it's not that you're necessarily gonna change their minds, but perhaps what you ultimately do is plant seeds.
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:37.599
Um now, if you ever come across the a Mormon who appears to be questioning things, um I'm gonna give them your number.
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:39.760
Yeah, then you can start to have some conversations, right?
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:41.760
You can have the Isaiah conversation.
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.440
Um, you can kind of dig into some of the deeper thoughts.
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:53.360
Um, you can dig into this the book of Abraham within the book of the Book of Mormon that Joseph Smith uh feels like he translated.
01:02:53.440 --> 01:03:09.679
Um you can have all these different types of conversations, and um, but for those that are for the missionaries and those that are grounded, uh I I find it best just to keep the conversation around salvation um and then hope that at least at a minimum you can plant a seed.
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:15.679
Um so but there are a lot of folks that have come out of the LDS church.
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:26.400
Um I will tell you statistically speaking, though, over 70% of the folks that leave the LDS church become atheist or agnostic, though.
01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:26.960
All right.
01:03:27.039 --> 01:03:43.760
Um they they it's I you know it's the uh jump out of the frying pan into the fire kind of and it's because again, the the church teaches that it's the one true church on earth, that all other churches are are not true.
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.039
Um, you know, they're an abomination, if you will.
01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:56.800
So for them, when they come out of the LDS church and they realize that, hey, this Joseph Smith is a false prophet and the church is not true, their whole world collapses.
01:03:56.880 --> 01:03:57.599
Everything they believe.
01:03:58.079 --> 01:03:59.599
If I can't trust them, who can I trust?
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:00.400
Yes, right.
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:03.840
And again, you know, yes, they believe the Bible, right?
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:14.639
One of their um, one of their key principles, if you will, their articles of faith is that you know, we believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, but we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God.
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:29.199
And the key there is that they say that if the Bible is translated correctly, what the church teaches is that over time, what they quote unquote um precious truths have been taken away from the Bible.
01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:41.599
And um, you know, Joseph Smith he had what he called the the JST, the Joseph Smith translation, where he attempts to what he says goes back and corrects some translations and he adds certain things to the Bible.
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:59.440
When you look at the JST, the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible, if you look at just the the the Torah, if you will, the first five books, you know, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, Joseph Smith adds entire sections to this, to this, this scripture, uh, to the to those books.
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:08.960
And um obviously, you know, we can read in Deuteronomy, you know, that gives us three tests to know somebody's a false prophet, and one of them is, you know, do not add or subtract from God's word.
01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:15.599
And I think that's where the um I just heard this not that long ago uh with the Dead Sea scrolls.
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:27.840
That would they when when they found those, it was exact when they compared the Dead Sea Scrolls to what we our modern day scripture, it meant exactly.
01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:29.440
It is remarkable.
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:45.280
Um, there's over forty thousand uh either manuscripts or sections of manuscripts of of the Bible out there, and all of them are in agreement with each other, which is how we know that the Bible is true, right?
01:05:45.440 --> 01:05:52.800
Not only that, you know, Joseph Smith he gets these golden plates that only you know, really he's only ever seen.
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:57.760
So he says, and the angel takes him back up to up to heaven, right?
01:05:58.000 --> 01:05:59.519
We don't have that with the Bible, right?
01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:16.400
This is Is like, you know, you can go to parts of Israel, you can go to areas within the Middle East that point to the archaeological evidence of the truth of the Bible, right?
01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:17.039
It's there.
01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:21.519
We don't, we're not, we're not fine, we're not, we're not following a blind faith, right?
01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:22.960
There's evidence for it all over.
01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:28.320
And I, you know, ironically, there's there's so much evidence that's coming forth, um, archaeological evidence.
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:36.559
And the Bible says that, you know, tells us that, you know, in the in the end days, right, the the earth itself is going to speak forth.
01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:43.039
It's gonna it's gonna speak about the truthfulness of God's word, and we see it with all the evidence that's buried.
01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:46.719
Um, but Joseph Smith, you know, he you can't do that with the Book of Mormon, right?
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:48.960
It doesn't hold up, nobody's seen the golden plates.
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:54.239
Um, you know, he translated this ancient hieroglyphic Egypt, right?
01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:56.239
That's a whole nother story.
01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:58.800
Um an interesting one.
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:07.199
But um, you're like, how in the world is this uneducated individual in the United States translate Egyptian hieroglyphics?
01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:14.159
But you think about that, that would be, you know, kind of like Moses saying that, you know, where you know, I can't speak.
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:18.480
And, you know, so some of those stories are kind of relate, you know.
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:31.360
So for us as a Christian to say, and I'm not defending Joseph Smith by any means, you know, uh, man, he had these golden plates, we had these Ten Commandments, you know, those but we have the Ten Commandments.
01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:39.920
We we have them, and you know, when when Moses comes down from the mountain, right, he's holding the tablets to have the Ten Commandments written on them, you know, that God wrote with his finger.
01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:42.239
Um, you know, they're there.
01:07:42.559 --> 01:07:47.440
I guess my point was it's not that far of a jump for Joseph Smith to say, Oh, I'm gonna do this tablet thing.
01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:54.960
Yeah, and that's and you and you and you know that the the Mormons make those kind of arguments about a lot of things where you say, Well, like, well, what about this in the Bible?
01:07:55.119 --> 01:08:05.119
Like, what you know, and you're like, So unless you unless someone is like really, really, really they know their scriptures, they have a hard time having a conversation with them.
01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:14.719
But well, as we close this up, if you had to summarize the biggest truth that God showed you, you know, during that journey, you know, what would it be?
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:28.000
I think the biggest truth is that um we are one our salvation is one hundred percent in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone and what he did for us on the cross.
01:08:28.239 --> 01:08:36.800
Um and his his word, his holy scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is one hundred percent true.
01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:51.920
Um and uh anyone who attempts to say anything otherwise or attempts to build a doctrine, a church on man's word is is false and it will fail.
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:58.079
Um only the foundation, the true foundation of Christ and God's word um can uphold you.
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:00.000
So I think that that's it.
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:10.640
Um and I I've I've because of my past experience with the LDS church, right, and have to dig myself out of it and kind of disprove things.
01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:16.880
And um I I'm one of those that I I love the like the Bereans, right?
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:22.479
Where you kind of they went, you know, yeah, they they heard Paul, but they also went back and said, okay, well we've got to verify this with scripture.
01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:23.600
So I'm like that.
01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:32.640
Um obviously, you know, Pastor Jeff does a wonderful job, you know, to the best of his ability, teaching truth from God's Word um, you know, every Sunday.
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:36.319
Um, but I'm one of those that just oh follow-up, right?
01:09:36.399 --> 01:09:43.119
Let's just look, let's just see, let's dig into the scriptures, let's verify for ourselves, um, kind of trust but verify type of mentality.
01:09:43.199 --> 01:09:44.880
Um, I take that with me today.
01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:50.079
Um, it doesn't matter if I'm listening to a you know a sermon on YouTube that I like or a teaching.
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:52.159
You think that comes from your background?
01:09:52.399 --> 01:09:53.199
It does, 100%.
01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:56.800
It's one of those is kind of like uh, you know, you you got me once, right?
01:09:57.039 --> 01:10:03.279
Shame on me if you get me twice, you know, you know, or if you got me once, shame on you, you get me twice, shame on me, um, kind of mentality.
01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:08.319
Or I just kind of dig in and I'm like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna search this from some for myself.
01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:13.039
Um and it's important for me, especially when you look at when you're studying scripture, right?
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:14.720
To look at the original language, right?
01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:23.359
When you're studying the Old Testament, you know, look at you know, look at the Hebrew, you know, um, when the New Testament, let's look at the Greek, how does that translate back to the Hebrew?
01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:26.239
What's the context of who you who they're speaking to?
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:32.319
Um, time, place, language, culture, all those things matter to make sure you get an accurate understanding.
01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:37.760
So um, yeah, I always try to trust but verify now.
01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:41.359
Um so well, Seth, this has been phenomenal.
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.880
I've thoroughly enjoyed it, especially not having that background.
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.079
Just uh I learned a lot uh through this episode.
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:50.399
So I appreciate your time and sharing.
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:53.119
Definitely in my head, my wheels are spinning.
01:10:53.199 --> 01:11:03.279
Like, oh, we need to do a follow-up, you know, at some point, let this digest, and you know, maybe uh next year have you back and uh you know dive a little bit deeper.
01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:04.319
Yeah, absolutely.
01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:06.079
Yeah, there's so many things we could touch on.
01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:12.319
Um the what the first one that comes to mind is the uh the book of Abraham uh that Joseph Smith says he translates.
01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:13.840
Um it's an interesting story.
01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:22.560
Well, yeah, I mean to you know, you know, to be able to defend when somebody knocks on your door, you gotta know what it is you're fighting against.
01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:31.119
So I would love to have you back and uh you know put those tools in our in our toolkit so we can have those conversations.
01:11:31.439 --> 01:11:31.680
Sure.
01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:32.880
Yeah, no, thanks, Tim.
01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:33.840
No, it's been a pleasure.
01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:40.560
Well, before I let you go, let me uh pray for you and uh you and Allison and um and then we'll close up.
01:11:41.039 --> 01:11:44.880
Dearly Father, just thank you so much for the story that we shared today.
01:11:45.039 --> 01:12:02.239
Thank you for your faithfulness in pursuing us and pursuing Seth and putting him in a situation that he could um dive into your word and uh listen for your voice and ultimately um hear it and receive it, Lord.
01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:13.840
And so it's just been a fascinating story the way that you have worked in his life, and I thank you for uh bringing Alice into into his life and their children and bringing them to unity.
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:20.399
And I ask that you continue to bless their family and um help build them up in the way that they should go.
01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:34.880
And uh, we just thank you for all that you do for us and for the uh the opportunity to uh better equip us in the knowledge of of you and um those things that we fight against.
01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:39.680
And so I just ask that you continue to be with Seth and with our church and with our listeners.
01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:40.720
In that name I pray.
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:41.279
Amen.
01:12:42.159 --> 01:12:45.359
Well, thank you so much, and I appreciate you telling your story.
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:50.079
And as I tell our listeners each week, as God is writing the story in your life, go and tell.
01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:54.560
Thanks so much for listening to the Unity Community Podcast.
01:12:54.720 --> 01:13:00.479
If today's conversation encouraged you, we'd love for you to take one or more next steps.
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.840
Join us this Sunday morning for worship at 9 or 1030.
01:13:04.079 --> 01:13:07.840
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01:13:08.079 --> 01:13:13.359
You can learn more about Unity and how to get plugged in by visiting the links in the show notes.
01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:18.640
So until next time, let's grow closer to the Lord as we grow closer, one to a