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Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gimick person.
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I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
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those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
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to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
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So five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome
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back to the podcast. Very excited to have back at
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Doctor Andrew Hahn. Andrew, welcome, Thank you guy.
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It's really a pleasure. I enjoyed the first one and
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I'm so looking forward to this one.
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Appreciate that.
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So.
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Doctor Han is a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of
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the Life Centered Therapy Institute. Co author of The One
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Hour Miracle, he spent over thirty years developing and teaching
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a mind, body, spirit approach to trauma that integrates Eastern psychology,
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energy work, and mindfulness. A Harvard graduate with a sid
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from Hahnemann University, Doctor Hahn has taught at Leslie and
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Northeastern Universities and now maintains a private practice in Massachusetts.
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His work centers on helping people in suffering and access
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profound healing to unified experiential framework. All right, Andrew, before
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we get going share with the listeners where you're from
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originally and where you are currently, and then we'll dive in.
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Where I'm from originally is Belmont, Massachusetts, which is about
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ten miles west of Boston. And now right now I'm
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in Rockport, Massachusetts, which is on the coast on the
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north shore of Massachusetts, right by the ocean. Okay, but
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my office is in Waltham and I'm there half the week.
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Okay, So let's start out. I want to touch on
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how all this started for you, because when I remember
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first talking to you who it was we were talking
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about energy and its effect on the body and healing.
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But before we get into that, I know we're going
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to talk about intention and healing and consciousness and so forth.
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But before we do, share with the listeners began for
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you in the first place. This interest is passion.
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Well, there's different passions. My passion is that I would
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like to be of service. I'd like this work to
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be of service to help people not be suffering, to
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be free of suffering and free to live a life
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that's in alignment with what I would call soul. And
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in so far as I get to be of service
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in that, you know, by working with people, or training
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people or doing whatever. That's my passion. How I got
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into this is, you know, I'll try to make it
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short because that could take our whole half hour. I'm
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by training a licensed clinical psychologist. I was always kind
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of edgy, and I always had some fairly unusual experiences.
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But I had one that was I will only limit
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myself to one experience. And it was about four years
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after I graduated and got my doctorate. I went and
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visited a friend and she had fallen and hurt herself
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very badly, clearly, and her ankle was swollen and discolored,
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and she was in quite excruciating pain, and she wanted
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to take me to a place that she was on
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spiritual retreat, which was the Self Realization Fellowship in Encinitas, California.
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And after we did this heart vibrational service for about
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an hour and a half, she was walking me around
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the fellowship and we got to these two benches that
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were sort of parallel to each other, and she said,
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I'm just in too much pain. You're going to have
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to carry me out of here. So I helped her
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over to one of the benches, and then I kind
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of circumambulated the whole thing and had to walk through
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some bushes to get so she could elevate her ankle,
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and so I told her to give me her ankle.
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And the second I told her that I was the
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best way I can describe what happened to me was
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I was flooded with light and I knew it wasn't
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the sun, because I knew the sun was off to
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my left, and I knew this was directly overhead, and
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it did not. It was kind of indescribable light, and
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I could feel it coming through me. So I just
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told her I wasn't going to touch her, but I
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just started channeling that light through my hands to our ankle.
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And she said, you know I can read oors, don't you?
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And I said, Roshan, I'm a nice Jewish boy from Boston.
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What do I know from oars? And she said, are
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you aware that there's pure light coming through the crown
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of your head, into the center of your chest and
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out your hands to my ankle? And I said, I
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don't see it the way you're talking about, but I
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know it's true. And she said, you're also sitting in
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a place called the seat of the heeler, where very
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few people actually ever sit, but you happen to sit there.
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And that took about fifteen seconds. And we looked down
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and there was no swelling, there was no discoloration. She
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got up and she walked. There was no pain. And
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I said, we're not in Kansas anymore to myself, and
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that started me onto a journey of studying all kinds
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of everything about energy and depth, psychology and hands on
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healing and everything you could imagine about energy and healing
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and not everything, but I did so many things, and
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that's sort of how things began to shift into where
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I am. Now.
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Wow, I mean we you know, people have heard stories
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like this and it's like it's almost unbelievable, but we
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hear this. But when you, I mean, you experienced that
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we Were you feeling congruent? Were you feeling Okay, this
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is happening, I get or were you like, what the
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hell is going on here? Or both?
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I would say both. It was I had never had
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an experience quite like that, but I had had some
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already very unusual experiences. So it was sort of like,
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if you're talking to Andy, it would be what the
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hell is going on here? But if you were talking
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to a different aspect of me that was this sort
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of there. I'd say, okay, so this is what's happening,
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and I'm going to discover about it. And I even
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knew then what was going on a little bit. I
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knew that if you had any kind of trauma, right
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there would be a symptom that would go with it. Well,
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she had a physical trauma in this case, to wear ankle,
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and I knew that if you could meet that energy
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and totally align with it, like with presence, which is
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all I was doing, was aligning with it, and then
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that would cause it to come back into a healing state.
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And then it was just raising a vibration to whatever
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that light was. So it's like taking a dense energy
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that was crystallized. It was kind of a crystallized consciousness
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which she could feel as dense energy and moving it
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back into its pure form, which was energy. It's like,
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you know, E becomes M and M becomes Z and
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I kind of had a sense of all of that
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even now. This was getting on towards forty years ago,
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and that became the foundation of my work on one level.
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So, as you said, you started involving yourself with this
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study intensely. How soon after that did you found the
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Life Center Therapy Institute.
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Originally we called what I'm calling now Life Center Therapy.
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We called it guided self healing, and I started doing
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guided self healing in nineteen ninety three, and for a
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variety of reasons, I don't exactly know how many years ago,
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we changed the name to Life Centered Therapy, and Guided
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Self Healing now is what we do for anyone who
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wants to come and study it and get the basics
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in one day, and Life Centered Therapy is sort of
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the umbrella that is our intensive training for professionals, and
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also what we call our institute because we're training a
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lot of graduate students, so the whole institute's that. And
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I don't know when we changed the name, but I've
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been doing this for now thirty two years, and the
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foundations of it were there way back when.
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So people hearing this thinking energy maybe reiki. How does
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this differ from something like that?
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Well, what I experienced that day in Encinitas is not
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a lot different from reiki. I would say it was
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a slightly different energy. It felt like to me because
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I'm a reiki master and I'm also a Joe Ray
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master and I would say I could talk about that,
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I don't want to talk about that much, but it's
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not like it at all. So I'm going to tell
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you the foundation of what I believe, which I can
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tell you in a minute. I think there's only one
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reason people suffer, which I think is the same as trauma,
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and I think there's only one reason, and my definition
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of trauma is there's something you can't take in stride
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and handle. That is the only reason I think people
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come for healing, So that's it. And every symptom that
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we have and everything we suffer about, I think is
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just variations of there was something you couldn't take in stride.
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So I think therapy is simple to describe. It's mastering
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what couldn't be taken in stride. That's all I think
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any kind of healing or psychotherapy is, and I think
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it's very easy to say how to do it, which
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is what I discovered there, although I probably already knew it,
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which is when something can't be taken in stride, in
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that moment, a discomfort is born. So I think every
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discomfort you have, on one level is the exact equivalent
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of a story of something that couldn't be taken in stride,
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and everything that can't be taken in stride has an
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exact equivalent to discomfort. So I would say what happens
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is we unconsciously identify with the discomfort and live out
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echoes of its story over and over again, trying to
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master it, which from our point of view personally, I
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would call it sucks because we keep suffering. I'll give
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you a simple example of what I mean and how
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it works. Let's suppose I'll take a simple PTSD example.
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You're in my office, a motorcycle backfires and you have
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a panic attack. Clearly, you're not having a panic attack
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because a motorcycle backfires. But let's suppose in this case
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we're going to keep it very simple. Twenty years ago,
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you're in Afghanistan. A bomb goes off near you, you
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can't handle it, and you're stuck there. All right, So
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what I'm going to say to you is when you're
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having your panic attack, I'm going to say, what's happening
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in the body. Let's suppose you say, what's happening in
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the body is my heart's pounding fast. Then I'm going
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to say something that's going to sound kind of strange.
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I'm gonna say, guy, you're not having a panic attack.
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Your little toe is just fine. But someone whose name
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is heart pounding Fast is having a panic attack, and
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you're identified with them. So what you're gonna do is
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you're going to choose to become them. You could say
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heart pounding Fast is like crystallized consciousness. It's not free
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flowing consciousness because then you wouldn't feel it. It's like
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energy becoming matter. So it's crystallized consciousness. And what you're
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going to do, and it's a living being. It's not
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a part of you. I do parts work, but this
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isn't a part of you anymore than your child would
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be a part of you. On one level they are,
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but another level they have a life of their own.
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So I'm going to say to you, become heart pounding Fast. Choose.
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You're aware of it, so you're going to allow it.
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You're going to bring all your attention to it, you're
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going to accept it, and you're going to choose to
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become it and embody it in the same way that
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if you were an actor, you're going to fully embody
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a role and the second you do that, you're free
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because instead of uncomm identifying with heartbounding fast, you're now
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going to identify with the one who's choosing to become it,
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and then bearing witness to it with loving kindness and
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with acceptance, almost like you would be you were the
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ideal parent. Or you could say it's an aspect that
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you could say you're bringing soul to matter. And then
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it's going to share its story. And I will tell
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you cannot get re traumatized because it's here right now.
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I'm not regressing you that soldier is here right now,
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and that's soldier could be here or you as a
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two year old who is getting terribly violated. But as
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long as you bear have any witness function, you can
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choose to become it. And then you'll just be with
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it and it will share its story if you know.
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If you're kinesthetic, you'll literally act it out. If you're visual,
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you'll see it like a movie. If you're auditory, you'll
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just know what it is like reading a novel, except
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you'll be with it, and it will share its story,
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and we'll ask it if it needs anything other than
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just sharing its story while you're bearing witness to it.
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And I would say, if the only reason you were
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having your panic attacks was because of what happened in Afghanistan.
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If what you did was you chose to become it right,
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you would remember something that had been dismembered and split
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off and had a life of its own. It would
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go back into its pure form, which you would know
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because heart pounding fast would be gone. And my guarantee
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to you would be, if that's the only reason you
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were having panic attacks, which I could find out, one
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of two things will happen. The next time a motorcycle backfires.
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You would say, I remember what happened to me in Afghanistan,
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but I'm not identified with it. Or if you can
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still have the symptom, you'll have no reaction to it,
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and you'll say, in some way it's serving me, even
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though I don't know yet, maybe know how. And that's
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the guarantee. If you stick around long enough, either the
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symptom will go away or all reactivity will go away.
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And that's essentially what I do. And then it's just
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jazz riffs.
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So sending correctly, you're inviting the client in this case
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the warrior, to identify with become heart pounding fast by choice, Yes,
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by choice. So the intention is to embody that as
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opposed to let's say traditional talk therapy, which is what
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could be what we're talking.
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They would talk to you, they would say guys, my client, right,
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and I would say virtually all somatic therapies would also
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say guys my client. I would not say guys my client.
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I would say guy is someone who is here to
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discover who the client is whose name will be a discomfort.
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So you're not my client. Heart pounding fast is my client,
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or type throat is my client, and it's not you. Your
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job is to discover it and then be in relationship
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with it the way most therapists would be in relationship
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with you, while I'm in relationship with you, in relationship
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with it the way that most therapists would be in
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relationship with you. So the whole different idea is it's
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not your heart pounding fast. I wouldn't say if heart
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pounding Fast could talk, that would be like saying to guy,
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if Guy could talk, what would he say is guy
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would say I can talk? Or it'd be like, you know,
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if the heart pounding fast is here and I'm talking
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to guy, heart pounding fast would say, why are you
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talking to him? He doesn't know what's going on. I
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know what's going on. Have him become me, And that
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little idea has changed everything for me about doing healing work.
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And it has led to things that if you told
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me I would see them literally, I would have said, yeah,
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and pigs fly to the moon, Except now I keep
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looking up because they do. And I've seen things, guy,
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that are so unbelievable to me. I saw a woman,
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for example, who was hospitalized with the sociative identity disorder
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with psychosis year after year for many years, and it
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all went away in forty five minutes. And it now
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I ever came back, which I know because I saw
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her twenty five years later in a doctor's office and
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she told me it never came back after that one session.
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It's a pretty unusual session, but it's built on the
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same principle, which is that her multiple personality and her
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bugs crawling all over her were just a narrative that
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nobody had ever had a sense to say. It all
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makes sense, Every symptom makes sense. It's just we don't
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know what sense it makes. And some of the sense
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it makes. You have to really open your mind to
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every possibility there is, right, But.
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So for that. If I made that example you gave
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of heart pounding fast is one symptom? What about when
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there are multiple symptoms going on?
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I will find out you give me five intentions, I
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use muscle testing to discover what the most important thing
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to work on is if I need a narrative where
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it crystallized, because everything after where it crystallized will not
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be as powerful. You want it as much leverage? And
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does that being need anything other than just sharing its story?
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So if you gave me five things, I'd say I
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can muscle test and that will be suggestive. Is it
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any of the five things you said? Or are all
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of those things symptom of something else that we could discover?
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And I've kind of tried to map the universe about
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what those things might be that tend to be either
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spiritual stories or mythic stories or whatever, and I've tried
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to put all of those into a framework, so I
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could ask, for example, is your story. I'll give you
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a different example. Let's suppose I find out you come
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in with your muscle, you come in with your panic
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attack again, but this time I find out which is
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actually a true story, Also that that wasn't your highest intention,
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and we couldn't even work on it directly. And I
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find out that your highest intention is a story about betrayal,
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which I can because I've kind of mapped out neglect,
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betrayal being taken over by things anything I could imagine
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or my clients teach me, I can map into sort
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of a bigger picture of themes that can hold symptoms.
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So let's appose I find out it's a story of
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betrayal and it's affecting in this case, your panic attacks
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by affecting other things you haven't told me. And I
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find out that that story of betrayal doesn't it's not
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even a story that happened to you. However, you want
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to make sense of it. So if you believe in
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other lifetimes, I could say it was you in another lifetime,
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and in this case it would be not your genealogy,
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because soul can come through blood, but it can also
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come through energy. But I find out it's karmic, so
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that you're stuck in what some people might call a
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past life, except if you don't believe in past lives,
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I'll never mention the word, but I'll say the story
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that you're really experiencing life through is not a story
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that happened to you in Afghanistan. And in fact, I
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can even find out that what happened to you in
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Afghanistan was just an echo of this earlier story. So
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I drop you into betrayal, which is a true story.
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And this time, instead of heart pounding fast, that's there
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a little bit, but your throat starts to close up
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and you have excruciating pain in your right foot. Okay,
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And I say, all right, So we know that there's
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somebody here from another lifetime or imaginal or a myth,
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whatever you want to call it, and we know that
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one of the symptoms of their betrayal story is going
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to be a panic attacks around loud sounds, and so
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we know that must have something to do with the story,
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because everything that you have is a clue to the story,
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every symptom you have, and everything you say literally is
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So I drop you into that and you say, this
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is really weird. I mean, and people do this even
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though they don't believe in any of this stuff, and
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they'll say, oh my god, this is really funny. I
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am like, I can see I'm a general and I
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know I'm in World War One. I'm in Germany, and
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I'm leading a group of soldiers and I get distracted
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by something and they keep walking and they walk into
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an opening and there's an ambush and I'm seeing what's
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happening to them, and bombs are going off in hand
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grenades and they're getting wounded and killed. And I try
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to go and scream to them to turn around, but
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I can't scream anything. So I take out a pistol
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and I I shoot myself in the foot because I
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want people to believe that I was wounded if they
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ever find us, because I'm feeling so ashamed, d et cetera,
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et cetera, et cetera. So I say, all right, so
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you have a problem. Your problem is you believe you
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betrayed all of these men who you were supposed to
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be protecting. Let's go and find their souls and talk
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with them. And basically we have a relatively short time.
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He found their souls and they said, we forgave you
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one hundred years ago for a variety of interesting reasons.
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And then what he says is now this guy actually
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happens to have had panic attacks, he had ADHD, and
375
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he said, and I'm guilty about my ADHD. Like, if
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I get distracted, something terrible is gonna happen, but nobody
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thought to look. In nineteen seventeen in Germany, he had
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OCD and he said, literally said, if I make any mistakes,
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the sky will fall. Same story, he says, every time
380
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I have a leadership, I'm a great leader. Every time
381
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I have a leadership opportunity, I shoot myself in the foot. Right,
382
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And it just so happens, by the way that this
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man dropped a stone on his foot. This is literally
384
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.720
a true story. He dropped a stone in his boot
385
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seven years ago, and people were saying, you should not
386
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.559
still have pain and be limping, and he said, well,
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they tell him, and he went to a lot of specialists,
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but they never considered the possibility that his story about
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what happened to his foot was actually not an accident,
390
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but was an unconscious creation of trying to do something
391
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so that he would echo this story about what happened
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in nineteen seventeen, right, and all that's going on and
393
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in his case, because that was the only reason they
394
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.920
were there. Basically, all those symptoms, including his foot pain
395
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.079
that no one could figure out, went away in forty
396
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.200
five minutes, and the foot pain I know never came back.
397
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.319
So that's a story about lots of symptoms. That's the
398
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.160
quickest one I can tell you in a short time.
399
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:49.319
So I know intention is at the forefront in a
400
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.519
sense of what you do. What is the role of
401
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.079
intention and healing intent?
402
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.839
Well, you come in with an intention, like you'll come
403
00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:02.119
in and say, you know, I have panic attacks, and
404
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.559
my intention is that they will just go away. So
405
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:09.599
you have to start with something, and then you have
406
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.400
to open to the part of you that is a
407
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.200
deeper part of you that still has that intention also
408
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.720
that's in alignment with it, which you can call all
409
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.640
kinds of things. But so intention is a starting place.
410
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:28.079
And all I would say about intentionality is that if
411
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.200
you really have that intention, I can help you find
412
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:32.440
out what's got you stuck. If what's going on is
413
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:34.799
what I would call trauma, which is simply there was
414
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:36.839
something that couldn't be handled, So you have an intention
415
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.599
to master what couldn't be handled, which is playing out
416
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.839
in a symptom. That's going to help us to learn
417
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:44.960
what you were trying to master in all the lessons
418
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.759
you were trying to get from it. So that's what
419
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.920
i'd say, and People come with intentions all the time,
420
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:53.279
and they'll come with you anything from I want to
421
00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.559
start a trauma podcast and it's good, but it could
422
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.119
be better to like I have chronic pain in my
423
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foot and no one knows why it's there, to spiritual
424
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.400
alienation and they say, I know that I want to
425
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.880
give some of my life over to like being in
426
00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:08.920
a different relationship with this, so I'll be free of
427
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:11.880
whatever this suffering is. And that's I guess what I'd
428
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say about intention.
429
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:18.640
And in that example, again, you're inviting the client to
430
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.160
become what to embody, This.
431
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:28.079
Is a sensation to embody, whatever sensation is associated. If
432
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:30.960
you have something that you're reactive to and a symptom,
433
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.839
I will guarantee you that if you scan your body,
434
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.079
you will find a sensation. And what you need to
435
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.640
know is because people say, well, people can't get into
436
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:41.319
their body, and I'll say, what are you talking about,
437
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:43.599
And they'll say, well, I do this and they say
438
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I don't feel anything. And I said, that is the
439
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.960
answer to the question. Have them go and find the feeling.
440
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.359
I don't feel anything. And I have not yet had
441
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.960
one person who couldn't do that. So people are always
442
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.519
answering your question, and you cannot make a common Guy
443
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:01.000
cannot make a commentary on it because who here is
444
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:04.480
the one who's saying, I'm not feeling anything. But that's
445
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the answer to the question. It's not a commentary, So
446
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I don't. I don't. Guy doesn't matter. Guy could say
447
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.599
I can't do this, but I'll say, of course, that's
448
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:17.880
just a trauma structure. If guy says I'm anxious because
449
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I can't do it, I'll say, all right, right now,
450
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.079
you're just living an echo of a story. Let's find it,
451
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find in your body. I can't do this, You'll find
452
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.079
it and we'll find out. Do you need an origin story?
453
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.039
Does it just want to share something? And what does
454
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it need? And at the end of it, k I
455
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will say no, I can't do it.
456
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Everything is as part of the process you had mentioned
457
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parts work, ifs internal family systems, how does this differentiate?
458
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.680
How is this differentiated from that the.
459
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Parts works as Dick does, it is archetypal, right, he says,
460
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.240
there are archetypes that are in relationship with each other,
461
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and I can do that work also, so and I
462
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have great respect for parts work, not just Dix. I
463
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.119
like parts work but basically I'm still working with parts
464
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.759
of you. So it can tell me. Muscle testing can
465
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tell me that I have to work on the relationship
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of a protector in an exile or a king and dada,
467
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and then i'd have you find those in the body
468
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and say, all right, they want to say something, they
469
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.319
want to share something, or be in relationship with each
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other or whatever. I can do that. But most of
471
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.279
the time it's not about parts of you. It's more
472
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:28.359
about living beings. Who are you at age three or
473
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:33.640
you in another whatever, you know, whatever, And so in
474
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that way, it wouldn't say it's parts work because I'm
475
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:38.640
not working with parts of you unless it tells me.
476
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.920
Muscle testing will tell me that I have to work
477
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.599
on archetypes, and then I can say, do I have
478
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to work on a trauma around a king archetype? Do
479
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.960
I have to work on a relational dynamic between a
480
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.079
protector and an exile? What do I have to do?
481
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.039
And it will if I can think of a question,
482
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.720
we can find it and we can find out the
483
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.200
relationship they have with each other even and all of that,
484
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.400
and then we drop in in to the relationship and
485
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.599
you'll find out what they have to say to each
486
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.640
other because they'll be saying it.
487
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.480
So as we kind of wind down here, Andrew, how
488
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.599
how are you working? Who are you working with? You'd
489
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:20.400
mentioned you were helping to educate other therapists, talk about that.
490
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.759
I work with anybody who comes to my door. Basically
491
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:29.400
I can't anymore because but we have now fifteen graduate
492
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.680
students who are training with us, so we have an
493
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:34.920
institute and we do that. We've trained over a thousand
494
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.559
people all over the world, but I had no requirement
495
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:39.559
that they come in except that they wanted to learn
496
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:45.240
the work. We're now a little bit more focusing on professionals,
497
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.119
so that's who I work with. That we have our
498
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.160
institute is called Life Centered Therapy, so people can find
499
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:54.599
out all about us at life center therapy dot com.
500
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.359
And we have a book called The One Hour Miracle,
501
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.920
which is I would say, read the first couple chapters
502
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.480
and you'll get a really good sense. And we have
503
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.119
first person accounts. I mean, the beauty of that book
504
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.680
is we have first person accounts in that book, so
505
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:10.400
it's not me writing about them, except that there were
506
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.000
certain patterns like that I wanted to give examples of,
507
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.319
and I didn't have ready access to the clients, but
508
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:21.640
anytime I could, I would say, it's your experience, you're
509
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.599
the expert, and why don't you write about it? And
510
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.240
they are I mean, you know a lot of them
511
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:28.079
use their own names. That was up to them, and
512
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:29.559
I say, you want to use your own name, that's
513
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.559
your choice. Some of them wanted to use a pseudonym.
514
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.759
And we have like one hundred stories in that book
515
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.160
about everything, every kind of symptom you can imagine, and
516
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:39.000
it's fun to read.
517
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.960
And the training for therapists, you know, obviously we have
518
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:47.279
a lot of therapists of various kinds listening to this podcast.
519
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:49.960
Talk a little bit more in depth about that training.
520
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.079
Is it online? Is it in person? Is it both?
521
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.200
It's both. I mean I used to only do it
522
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.559
in person and then COVID came. Now recently, I've been
523
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:01.319
doing it mainly online and we've started to do a
524
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:04.960
mix of online and in person. But if you can't
525
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:07.839
get there in person, because some people are coming from
526
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.680
god knows where, we videotape all the trainings right so
527
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:15.119
you can you can get it, and I give you
528
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.359
twenty seven hours of videotapes about all of these patterns
529
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.720
and how I mean this gets a little bit complicated,
530
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:26.640
but how you know our personality because really what we're
531
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.039
talking they can come and what they learn about is
532
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.759
they learn a foundation, a worldview. They learn a simple
533
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.039
five step protocol. They learn how to distinguish when the
534
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.880
problems are something that you're reliving the trauma versus reliving
535
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.039
the way you cope with it so it never happens again,
536
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.160
which people come in with all the time, and how
537
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.440
to distinguish them and you do different things. And they
538
00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:49.000
learn all of that, and they learn ways of doing
539
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.599
very deep practices around transforming our deepest fears that we
540
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.440
have about ourselves. And the whole training takes about one
541
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.680
hundred hours and most of the our line.
542
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.240
Okay, okay, a little lesson and okay, and once again
543
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.599
give us that your website as we kind of wind down.
544
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.000
Here, it's Life Centered Therapy dot com. And people can
545
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.160
just do the first weekend and they'll get the foundation
546
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:16.559
of everything. You can learn everything you need to know
547
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:22.000
about this simply in a day, because everything, if you know,
548
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.640
I'll teach you how to work with body sensations, which
549
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.039
I think is the extraordinary thing about this, right and
550
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.119
to say they're not me. They have a life of
551
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.079
their own. And if only therapists took from this right
552
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.839
that find the sensation in the body and talk directly
553
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.960
with it like it's a living being who's come to
554
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:48.000
share something, and have your clients just report and I
555
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:53.319
will tell you it's extraordinary just making that one difference
556
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:57.279
what that does, And then you can take everything you know.
557
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.920
I mean, I can muscle test if it's because I'll
558
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.960
teach you all kinds of spiritual practices and energetic interventions,
559
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.480
and then we can and because you can use muscle testing,
560
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.440
if you know E M, D R and e FT,
561
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.880
for example, how are you going to distinguish You'd have
562
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:13.559
to say, well, I'll have to guess. I'd say, well,
563
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:16.359
why would I guess? Your soul knows. I'll just ask
564
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.119
your body which one is? When does your body stay strong?
565
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.000
Is it for either of those? Or is it like
566
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:24.640
channeling light? Or is it something else that you know
567
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:28.119
that I never thought about. And so my job is
568
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:31.119
to say you're the expert, and your life is the
569
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.000
expert as it reveals it to yourself through guy and
570
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.160
my job is to know a framework. And that's what
571
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:39.000
my expertise is, but not my expertise is, and that
572
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.480
I know it's best for you. Right awesome?
573
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:43.759
All right, Andrew. We'll have all this link up here
574
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:46.680
at the show notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast
575
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:53.000
dot com. Andrew, thank you. Don't be a stranger. We'll
576
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:53.519
be in touch.
577
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:54.799
I would love that.
578
00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:01.599
Guy thinks, all right, take ca after Thom of the
579
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:04.599
thing my posible
580
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:08.640
To rep
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Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gimick person.
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I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
3
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those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
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to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
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So five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome
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00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:23.120
back to the podcast. Very excited to have back at
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Doctor Andrew Hahn. Andrew, welcome, Thank you guy.
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It's really a pleasure. I enjoyed the first one and
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I'm so looking forward to this one.
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Appreciate that.
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So.
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Doctor Han is a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of
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the Life Centered Therapy Institute. Co author of The One
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Hour Miracle, he spent over thirty years developing and teaching
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a mind, body, spirit approach to trauma that integrates Eastern psychology,
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energy work, and mindfulness. A Harvard graduate with a sid
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from Hahnemann University, Doctor Hahn has taught at Leslie and
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Northeastern Universities and now maintains a private practice in Massachusetts.
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His work centers on helping people in suffering and access
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profound healing to unified experiential framework. All right, Andrew, before
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we get going share with the listeners where you're from
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originally and where you are currently, and then we'll dive in.
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Where I'm from originally is Belmont, Massachusetts, which is about
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ten miles west of Boston. And now right now I'm
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in Rockport, Massachusetts, which is on the coast on the
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north shore of Massachusetts, right by the ocean. Okay, but
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my office is in Waltham and I'm there half the week.
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Okay, So let's start out. I want to touch on
29
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how all this started for you, because when I remember
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first talking to you who it was we were talking
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about energy and its effect on the body and healing.
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But before we get into that, I know we're going
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to talk about intention and healing and consciousness and so forth.
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But before we do, share with the listeners began for
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you in the first place. This interest is passion.
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Well, there's different passions. My passion is that I would
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like to be of service. I'd like this work to
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be of service to help people not be suffering, to
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be free of suffering and free to live a life
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that's in alignment with what I would call soul. And
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in so far as I get to be of service
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in that, you know, by working with people, or training
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people or doing whatever. That's my passion. How I got
44
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into this is, you know, I'll try to make it
45
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short because that could take our whole half hour. I'm
46
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by training a licensed clinical psychologist. I was always kind
47
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of edgy, and I always had some fairly unusual experiences.
48
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But I had one that was I will only limit
49
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myself to one experience. And it was about four years
50
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after I graduated and got my doctorate. I went and
51
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visited a friend and she had fallen and hurt herself
52
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very badly, clearly, and her ankle was swollen and discolored,
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and she was in quite excruciating pain, and she wanted
54
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to take me to a place that she was on
55
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spiritual retreat, which was the Self Realization Fellowship in Encinitas, California.
56
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And after we did this heart vibrational service for about
57
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an hour and a half, she was walking me around
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the fellowship and we got to these two benches that
59
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were sort of parallel to each other, and she said,
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I'm just in too much pain. You're going to have
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to carry me out of here. So I helped her
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over to one of the benches, and then I kind
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of circumambulated the whole thing and had to walk through
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some bushes to get so she could elevate her ankle,
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and so I told her to give me her ankle.
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And the second I told her that I was the
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best way I can describe what happened to me was
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I was flooded with light and I knew it wasn't
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the sun, because I knew the sun was off to
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my left, and I knew this was directly overhead, and
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it did not. It was kind of indescribable light, and
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I could feel it coming through me. So I just
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told her I wasn't going to touch her, but I
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just started channeling that light through my hands to our ankle.
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And she said, you know I can read oors, don't you?
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And I said, Roshan, I'm a nice Jewish boy from Boston.
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What do I know from oars? And she said, are
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you aware that there's pure light coming through the crown
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of your head, into the center of your chest and
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out your hands to my ankle? And I said, I
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don't see it the way you're talking about, but I
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know it's true. And she said, you're also sitting in
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a place called the seat of the heeler, where very
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few people actually ever sit, but you happen to sit there.
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And that took about fifteen seconds. And we looked down
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and there was no swelling, there was no discoloration. She
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got up and she walked. There was no pain. And
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I said, we're not in Kansas anymore to myself, and
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that started me onto a journey of studying all kinds
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of everything about energy and depth, psychology and hands on
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healing and everything you could imagine about energy and healing
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and not everything, but I did so many things, and
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that's sort of how things began to shift into where
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I am. Now.
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Wow, I mean we you know, people have heard stories
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like this and it's like it's almost unbelievable, but we
97
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hear this. But when you, I mean, you experienced that
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we Were you feeling congruent? Were you feeling Okay, this
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is happening, I get or were you like, what the
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hell is going on here? Or both?
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I would say both. It was I had never had
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an experience quite like that, but I had had some
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already very unusual experiences. So it was sort of like,
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if you're talking to Andy, it would be what the
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hell is going on here? But if you were talking
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to a different aspect of me that was this sort
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of there. I'd say, okay, so this is what's happening,
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and I'm going to discover about it. And I even
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knew then what was going on a little bit. I
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knew that if you had any kind of trauma, right
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there would be a symptom that would go with it. Well,
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she had a physical trauma in this case, to wear ankle,
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and I knew that if you could meet that energy
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and totally align with it, like with presence, which is
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all I was doing, was aligning with it, and then
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that would cause it to come back into a healing state.
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And then it was just raising a vibration to whatever
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that light was. So it's like taking a dense energy
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that was crystallized. It was kind of a crystallized consciousness
120
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which she could feel as dense energy and moving it
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back into its pure form, which was energy. It's like,
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you know, E becomes M and M becomes Z and
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I kind of had a sense of all of that
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even now. This was getting on towards forty years ago,
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and that became the foundation of my work on one level.
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So, as you said, you started involving yourself with this
127
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study intensely. How soon after that did you found the
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Life Center Therapy Institute.
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Originally we called what I'm calling now Life Center Therapy.
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We called it guided self healing, and I started doing
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guided self healing in nineteen ninety three, and for a
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variety of reasons, I don't exactly know how many years ago,
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we changed the name to Life Centered Therapy, and Guided
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Self Healing now is what we do for anyone who
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wants to come and study it and get the basics
136
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in one day, and Life Centered Therapy is sort of
137
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the umbrella that is our intensive training for professionals, and
138
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also what we call our institute because we're training a
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lot of graduate students, so the whole institute's that. And
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I don't know when we changed the name, but I've
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been doing this for now thirty two years, and the
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foundations of it were there way back when.
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So people hearing this thinking energy maybe reiki. How does
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this differ from something like that?
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Well, what I experienced that day in Encinitas is not
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a lot different from reiki. I would say it was
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a slightly different energy. It felt like to me because
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I'm a reiki master and I'm also a Joe Ray
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master and I would say I could talk about that,
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I don't want to talk about that much, but it's
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not like it at all. So I'm going to tell
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you the foundation of what I believe, which I can
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tell you in a minute. I think there's only one
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reason people suffer, which I think is the same as trauma,
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and I think there's only one reason, and my definition
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of trauma is there's something you can't take in stride
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and handle. That is the only reason I think people
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come for healing, So that's it. And every symptom that
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we have and everything we suffer about, I think is
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just variations of there was something you couldn't take in stride.
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So I think therapy is simple to describe. It's mastering
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what couldn't be taken in stride. That's all I think
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any kind of healing or psychotherapy is, and I think
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it's very easy to say how to do it, which
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is what I discovered there, although I probably already knew it,
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which is when something can't be taken in stride, in
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that moment, a discomfort is born. So I think every
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discomfort you have, on one level is the exact equivalent
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of a story of something that couldn't be taken in stride,
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and everything that can't be taken in stride has an
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exact equivalent to discomfort. So I would say what happens
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is we unconsciously identify with the discomfort and live out
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echoes of its story over and over again, trying to
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master it, which from our point of view personally, I
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would call it sucks because we keep suffering. I'll give
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you a simple example of what I mean and how
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it works. Let's suppose I'll take a simple PTSD example.
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You're in my office, a motorcycle backfires and you have
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a panic attack. Clearly, you're not having a panic attack
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because a motorcycle backfires. But let's suppose in this case
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we're going to keep it very simple. Twenty years ago,
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you're in Afghanistan. A bomb goes off near you, you
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can't handle it, and you're stuck there. All right, So
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what I'm going to say to you is when you're
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having your panic attack, I'm going to say, what's happening
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in the body. Let's suppose you say, what's happening in
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the body is my heart's pounding fast. Then I'm going
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to say something that's going to sound kind of strange.
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I'm gonna say, guy, you're not having a panic attack.
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Your little toe is just fine. But someone whose name
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is heart pounding Fast is having a panic attack, and
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you're identified with them. So what you're gonna do is
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you're going to choose to become them. You could say
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heart pounding Fast is like crystallized consciousness. It's not free
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flowing consciousness because then you wouldn't feel it. It's like
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energy becoming matter. So it's crystallized consciousness. And what you're
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going to do, and it's a living being. It's not
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a part of you. I do parts work, but this
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isn't a part of you anymore than your child would
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be a part of you. On one level they are,
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but another level they have a life of their own.
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So I'm going to say to you, become heart pounding Fast. Choose.
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You're aware of it, so you're going to allow it.
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You're going to bring all your attention to it, you're
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going to accept it, and you're going to choose to
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become it and embody it in the same way that
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if you were an actor, you're going to fully embody
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a role and the second you do that, you're free
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because instead of uncomm identifying with heartbounding fast, you're now
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going to identify with the one who's choosing to become it,
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and then bearing witness to it with loving kindness and
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with acceptance, almost like you would be you were the
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ideal parent. Or you could say it's an aspect that
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you could say you're bringing soul to matter. And then
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it's going to share its story. And I will tell
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you cannot get re traumatized because it's here right now.
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I'm not regressing you that soldier is here right now,
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and that's soldier could be here or you as a
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two year old who is getting terribly violated. But as
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long as you bear have any witness function, you can
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choose to become it. And then you'll just be with
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it and it will share its story if you know.
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If you're kinesthetic, you'll literally act it out. If you're visual,
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you'll see it like a movie. If you're auditory, you'll
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just know what it is like reading a novel, except
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you'll be with it, and it will share its story,
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and we'll ask it if it needs anything other than
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just sharing its story while you're bearing witness to it.
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And I would say, if the only reason you were
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having your panic attacks was because of what happened in Afghanistan.
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If what you did was you chose to become it right,
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you would remember something that had been dismembered and split
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off and had a life of its own. It would
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go back into its pure form, which you would know
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because heart pounding fast would be gone. And my guarantee
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to you would be, if that's the only reason you
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were having panic attacks, which I could find out, one
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of two things will happen. The next time a motorcycle backfires.
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You would say, I remember what happened to me in Afghanistan,
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but I'm not identified with it. Or if you can
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still have the symptom, you'll have no reaction to it,
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and you'll say, in some way it's serving me, even
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though I don't know yet, maybe know how. And that's
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the guarantee. If you stick around long enough, either the
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symptom will go away or all reactivity will go away.
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And that's essentially what I do. And then it's just
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jazz riffs.
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So sending correctly, you're inviting the client in this case
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the warrior, to identify with become heart pounding fast by choice, Yes,
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by choice. So the intention is to embody that as
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opposed to let's say traditional talk therapy, which is what
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could be what we're talking.
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They would talk to you, they would say guys, my client, right,
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and I would say virtually all somatic therapies would also
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say guys my client. I would not say guys my client.
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I would say guy is someone who is here to
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discover who the client is whose name will be a discomfort.
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So you're not my client. Heart pounding fast is my client,
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or type throat is my client, and it's not you. Your
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job is to discover it and then be in relationship
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with it the way most therapists would be in relationship
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with you, while I'm in relationship with you, in relationship
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with it the way that most therapists would be in
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relationship with you. So the whole different idea is it's
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not your heart pounding fast. I wouldn't say if heart
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pounding Fast could talk, that would be like saying to guy,
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if Guy could talk, what would he say is guy
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would say I can talk? Or it'd be like, you know,
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if the heart pounding fast is here and I'm talking
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to guy, heart pounding fast would say, why are you
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talking to him? He doesn't know what's going on. I
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know what's going on. Have him become me, And that
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little idea has changed everything for me about doing healing work.
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And it has led to things that if you told
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me I would see them literally, I would have said, yeah,
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and pigs fly to the moon, Except now I keep
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looking up because they do. And I've seen things, guy,
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that are so unbelievable to me. I saw a woman,
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for example, who was hospitalized with the sociative identity disorder
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with psychosis year after year for many years, and it
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all went away in forty five minutes. And it now
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I ever came back, which I know because I saw
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her twenty five years later in a doctor's office and
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she told me it never came back after that one session.
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It's a pretty unusual session, but it's built on the
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same principle, which is that her multiple personality and her
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bugs crawling all over her were just a narrative that
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nobody had ever had a sense to say. It all
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makes sense, Every symptom makes sense. It's just we don't
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know what sense it makes. And some of the sense
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it makes. You have to really open your mind to
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every possibility there is, right, But.
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So for that. If I made that example you gave
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of heart pounding fast is one symptom? What about when
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there are multiple symptoms going on?
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I will find out you give me five intentions, I
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use muscle testing to discover what the most important thing
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to work on is if I need a narrative where
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it crystallized, because everything after where it crystallized will not
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be as powerful. You want it as much leverage? And
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does that being need anything other than just sharing its story?
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So if you gave me five things, I'd say I
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can muscle test and that will be suggestive. Is it
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any of the five things you said? Or are all
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of those things symptom of something else that we could discover?
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And I've kind of tried to map the universe about
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what those things might be that tend to be either
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spiritual stories or mythic stories or whatever, and I've tried
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to put all of those into a framework, so I
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could ask, for example, is your story. I'll give you
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a different example. Let's suppose I find out you come
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in with your muscle, you come in with your panic
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attack again, but this time I find out which is
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actually a true story, Also that that wasn't your highest intention,
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and we couldn't even work on it directly. And I
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find out that your highest intention is a story about betrayal,
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which I can because I've kind of mapped out neglect,
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betrayal being taken over by things anything I could imagine
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or my clients teach me, I can map into sort
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of a bigger picture of themes that can hold symptoms.
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So let's appose I find out it's a story of
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betrayal and it's affecting in this case, your panic attacks
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by affecting other things you haven't told me. And I
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find out that that story of betrayal doesn't it's not
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even a story that happened to you. However, you want
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to make sense of it. So if you believe in
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other lifetimes, I could say it was you in another lifetime,
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and in this case it would be not your genealogy,
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because soul can come through blood, but it can also
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come through energy. But I find out it's karmic, so
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that you're stuck in what some people might call a
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past life, except if you don't believe in past lives,
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I'll never mention the word, but I'll say the story
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that you're really experiencing life through is not a story
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that happened to you in Afghanistan. And in fact, I
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can even find out that what happened to you in
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Afghanistan was just an echo of this earlier story. So
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I drop you into betrayal, which is a true story.
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And this time, instead of heart pounding fast, that's there
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a little bit, but your throat starts to close up
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and you have excruciating pain in your right foot. Okay,
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And I say, all right, So we know that there's
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somebody here from another lifetime or imaginal or a myth,
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whatever you want to call it, and we know that
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one of the symptoms of their betrayal story is going
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to be a panic attacks around loud sounds, and so
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we know that must have something to do with the story,
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because everything that you have is a clue to the story,
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every symptom you have, and everything you say literally is
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So I drop you into that and you say, this
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is really weird. I mean, and people do this even
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though they don't believe in any of this stuff, and
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they'll say, oh my god, this is really funny. I
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am like, I can see I'm a general and I
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know I'm in World War One. I'm in Germany, and
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I'm leading a group of soldiers and I get distracted
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by something and they keep walking and they walk into
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an opening and there's an ambush and I'm seeing what's
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happening to them, and bombs are going off in hand
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grenades and they're getting wounded and killed. And I try
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to go and scream to them to turn around, but
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I can't scream anything. So I take out a pistol
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and I I shoot myself in the foot because I
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want people to believe that I was wounded if they
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ever find us, because I'm feeling so ashamed, d et cetera,
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et cetera, et cetera. So I say, all right, so
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you have a problem. Your problem is you believe you
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betrayed all of these men who you were supposed to
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be protecting. Let's go and find their souls and talk
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with them. And basically we have a relatively short time.
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He found their souls and they said, we forgave you
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one hundred years ago for a variety of interesting reasons.
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And then what he says is now this guy actually
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happens to have had panic attacks, he had ADHD, and
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he said, and I'm guilty about my ADHD. Like, if
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I get distracted, something terrible is gonna happen, but nobody
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thought to look. In nineteen seventeen in Germany, he had
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OCD and he said, literally said, if I make any mistakes,
379
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.680
the sky will fall. Same story, he says, every time
380
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.519
I have a leadership, I'm a great leader. Every time
381
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.799
I have a leadership opportunity, I shoot myself in the foot. Right,
382
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.519
And it just so happens, by the way that this
383
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:03.759
man dropped a stone on his foot. This is literally
384
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.720
a true story. He dropped a stone in his boot
385
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.440
seven years ago, and people were saying, you should not
386
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.559
still have pain and be limping, and he said, well,
387
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.640
they tell him, and he went to a lot of specialists,
388
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.599
but they never considered the possibility that his story about
389
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:17.960
what happened to his foot was actually not an accident,
390
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.519
but was an unconscious creation of trying to do something
391
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:23.720
so that he would echo this story about what happened
392
00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.400
in nineteen seventeen, right, and all that's going on and
393
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.200
in his case, because that was the only reason they
394
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.920
were there. Basically, all those symptoms, including his foot pain
395
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.079
that no one could figure out, went away in forty
396
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.200
five minutes, and the foot pain I know never came back.
397
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.319
So that's a story about lots of symptoms. That's the
398
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.160
quickest one I can tell you in a short time.
399
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:49.319
So I know intention is at the forefront in a
400
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.519
sense of what you do. What is the role of
401
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.079
intention and healing intent?
402
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.839
Well, you come in with an intention, like you'll come
403
00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:02.119
in and say, you know, I have panic attacks, and
404
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.559
my intention is that they will just go away. So
405
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:09.599
you have to start with something, and then you have
406
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.400
to open to the part of you that is a
407
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.200
deeper part of you that still has that intention also
408
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.720
that's in alignment with it, which you can call all
409
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.640
kinds of things. But so intention is a starting place.
410
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:28.079
And all I would say about intentionality is that if
411
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.200
you really have that intention, I can help you find
412
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:32.440
out what's got you stuck. If what's going on is
413
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:34.799
what I would call trauma, which is simply there was
414
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:36.839
something that couldn't be handled, So you have an intention
415
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.599
to master what couldn't be handled, which is playing out
416
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.839
in a symptom. That's going to help us to learn
417
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:44.960
what you were trying to master in all the lessons
418
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.759
you were trying to get from it. So that's what
419
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.920
i'd say, and People come with intentions all the time,
420
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:53.279
and they'll come with you anything from I want to
421
00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.559
start a trauma podcast and it's good, but it could
422
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.119
be better to like I have chronic pain in my
423
00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:00.960
foot and no one knows why it's there, to spiritual
424
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.400
alienation and they say, I know that I want to
425
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.880
give some of my life over to like being in
426
00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:08.920
a different relationship with this, so I'll be free of
427
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:11.880
whatever this suffering is. And that's I guess what I'd
428
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.680
say about intention.
429
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:18.640
And in that example, again, you're inviting the client to
430
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.160
become what to embody, This.
431
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:28.079
Is a sensation to embody, whatever sensation is associated. If
432
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:30.960
you have something that you're reactive to and a symptom,
433
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.839
I will guarantee you that if you scan your body,
434
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.079
you will find a sensation. And what you need to
435
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.640
know is because people say, well, people can't get into
436
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:41.319
their body, and I'll say, what are you talking about,
437
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:43.599
And they'll say, well, I do this and they say
438
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:46.240
I don't feel anything. And I said, that is the
439
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.960
answer to the question. Have them go and find the feeling.
440
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.359
I don't feel anything. And I have not yet had
441
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.960
one person who couldn't do that. So people are always
442
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.519
answering your question, and you cannot make a common Guy
443
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:01.000
cannot make a commentary on it because who here is
444
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:04.480
the one who's saying, I'm not feeling anything. But that's
445
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.799
the answer to the question. It's not a commentary, So
446
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.759
I don't. I don't. Guy doesn't matter. Guy could say
447
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.599
I can't do this, but I'll say, of course, that's
448
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:17.880
just a trauma structure. If guy says I'm anxious because
449
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.799
I can't do it, I'll say, all right, right now,
450
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.079
you're just living an echo of a story. Let's find it,
451
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.640
find in your body. I can't do this, You'll find
452
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.079
it and we'll find out. Do you need an origin story?
453
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.039
Does it just want to share something? And what does
454
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:30.759
it need? And at the end of it, k I
455
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.599
will say no, I can't do it.
456
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.599
Everything is as part of the process you had mentioned
457
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:43.079
parts work, ifs internal family systems, how does this differentiate?
458
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.680
How is this differentiated from that the.
459
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:50.359
Parts works as Dick does, it is archetypal, right, he says,
460
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.240
there are archetypes that are in relationship with each other,
461
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.559
and I can do that work also, so and I
462
00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:59.640
have great respect for parts work, not just Dix. I
463
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.119
like parts work but basically I'm still working with parts
464
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.759
of you. So it can tell me. Muscle testing can
465
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:07.799
tell me that I have to work on the relationship
466
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.160
of a protector in an exile or a king and dada,
467
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:13.920
and then i'd have you find those in the body
468
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.720
and say, all right, they want to say something, they
469
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.319
want to share something, or be in relationship with each
470
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:21.559
other or whatever. I can do that. But most of
471
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.279
the time it's not about parts of you. It's more
472
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:28.359
about living beings. Who are you at age three or
473
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:33.640
you in another whatever, you know, whatever, And so in
474
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.720
that way, it wouldn't say it's parts work because I'm
475
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:38.640
not working with parts of you unless it tells me.
476
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.920
Muscle testing will tell me that I have to work
477
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.599
on archetypes, and then I can say, do I have
478
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.000
to work on a trauma around a king archetype? Do
479
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.960
I have to work on a relational dynamic between a
480
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.079
protector and an exile? What do I have to do?
481
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.039
And it will if I can think of a question,
482
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.720
we can find it and we can find out the
483
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.200
relationship they have with each other even and all of that,
484
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.400
and then we drop in in to the relationship and
485
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.599
you'll find out what they have to say to each
486
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.640
other because they'll be saying it.
487
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.480
So as we kind of wind down here, Andrew, how
488
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.599
how are you working? Who are you working with? You'd
489
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:20.400
mentioned you were helping to educate other therapists, talk about that.
490
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.759
I work with anybody who comes to my door. Basically
491
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:29.400
I can't anymore because but we have now fifteen graduate
492
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.680
students who are training with us, so we have an
493
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:34.920
institute and we do that. We've trained over a thousand
494
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.559
people all over the world, but I had no requirement
495
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:39.559
that they come in except that they wanted to learn
496
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:45.240
the work. We're now a little bit more focusing on professionals,
497
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.119
so that's who I work with. That we have our
498
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.160
institute is called Life Centered Therapy, so people can find
499
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:54.599
out all about us at life center therapy dot com.
500
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.359
And we have a book called The One Hour Miracle,
501
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.920
which is I would say, read the first couple chapters
502
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.480
and you'll get a really good sense. And we have
503
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.119
first person accounts. I mean, the beauty of that book
504
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.680
is we have first person accounts in that book, so
505
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:10.400
it's not me writing about them, except that there were
506
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.000
certain patterns like that I wanted to give examples of,
507
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.319
and I didn't have ready access to the clients, but
508
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:21.640
anytime I could, I would say, it's your experience, you're
509
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.599
the expert, and why don't you write about it? And
510
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.240
they are I mean, you know a lot of them
511
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:28.079
use their own names. That was up to them, and
512
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:29.559
I say, you want to use your own name, that's
513
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.559
your choice. Some of them wanted to use a pseudonym.
514
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.759
And we have like one hundred stories in that book
515
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.160
about everything, every kind of symptom you can imagine, and
516
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:39.000
it's fun to read.
517
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.960
And the training for therapists, you know, obviously we have
518
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:47.279
a lot of therapists of various kinds listening to this podcast.
519
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:49.960
Talk a little bit more in depth about that training.
520
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.079
Is it online? Is it in person? Is it both?
521
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.200
It's both. I mean I used to only do it
522
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.559
in person and then COVID came. Now recently, I've been
523
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:01.319
doing it mainly online and we've started to do a
524
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:04.960
mix of online and in person. But if you can't
525
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:07.839
get there in person, because some people are coming from
526
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.680
god knows where, we videotape all the trainings right so
527
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:15.119
you can you can get it, and I give you
528
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.359
twenty seven hours of videotapes about all of these patterns
529
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.720
and how I mean this gets a little bit complicated,
530
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:26.640
but how you know our personality because really what we're
531
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.039
talking they can come and what they learn about is
532
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.759
they learn a foundation, a worldview. They learn a simple
533
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.039
five step protocol. They learn how to distinguish when the
534
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.880
problems are something that you're reliving the trauma versus reliving
535
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.039
the way you cope with it so it never happens again,
536
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.160
which people come in with all the time, and how
537
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.440
to distinguish them and you do different things. And they
538
00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:49.000
learn all of that, and they learn ways of doing
539
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.599
very deep practices around transforming our deepest fears that we
540
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.440
have about ourselves. And the whole training takes about one
541
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.680
hundred hours and most of the our line.
542
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.240
Okay, okay, a little lesson and okay, and once again
543
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.599
give us that your website as we kind of wind down.
544
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.000
Here, it's Life Centered Therapy dot com. And people can
545
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.160
just do the first weekend and they'll get the foundation
546
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:16.559
of everything. You can learn everything you need to know
547
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:22.000
about this simply in a day, because everything, if you know,
548
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.640
I'll teach you how to work with body sensations, which
549
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.039
I think is the extraordinary thing about this, right and
550
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.119
to say they're not me. They have a life of
551
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.079
their own. And if only therapists took from this right
552
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.839
that find the sensation in the body and talk directly
553
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.960
with it like it's a living being who's come to
554
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:48.000
share something, and have your clients just report and I
555
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:53.319
will tell you it's extraordinary just making that one difference
556
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:57.279
what that does, And then you can take everything you know.
557
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.920
I mean, I can muscle test if it's because I'll
558
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.960
teach you all kinds of spiritual practices and energetic interventions,
559
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.480
and then we can and because you can use muscle testing,
560
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.440
if you know E M, D R and e FT,
561
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.880
for example, how are you going to distinguish You'd have
562
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:13.559
to say, well, I'll have to guess. I'd say, well,
563
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:16.359
why would I guess? Your soul knows. I'll just ask
564
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.119
your body which one is? When does your body stay strong?
565
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.000
Is it for either of those? Or is it like
566
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:24.640
channeling light? Or is it something else that you know
567
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:28.119
that I never thought about. And so my job is
568
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:31.119
to say you're the expert, and your life is the
569
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.000
expert as it reveals it to yourself through guy and
570
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.160
my job is to know a framework. And that's what
571
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:39.000
my expertise is, but not my expertise is, and that
572
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.480
I know it's best for you. Right awesome?
573
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:43.759
All right, Andrew. We'll have all this link up here
574
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:46.680
at the show notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast
575
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:53.000
dot com. Andrew, thank you. Don't be a stranger. We'll
576
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:53.519
be in touch.
577
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:54.799
I would love that.
578
00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:01.599
Guy thinks, all right, take ca after Thom of the
579
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:04.599
thing my posible
580
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:08.640
To rep
