Source Material #425 - Bruce Wayne Fugitive - Part 1

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Good book around. We're here, Slash and Phil It take
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time down. We're here to dissect a sub material time. Well,
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I guess we could. I don't know.
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After all, after all, this is the source material comics podcast,
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ladies and gentlemen, and we are here to bring an
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end to the Bruce Wayne saga that was Murderer and
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then Fugitive.
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So we talked last time.
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Bruce Wayne Murderer had ended I think like shortly before
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we actually were able to get into further issues in
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the podcast. So basically we had I think Bruce Wayne
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Murderer lasted for like ten issues, maybe eleven or something
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like that, and then Fugitive took over. So we actually
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started Bruce Wayne Fugitive on the last podcast.
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That we did.
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So, Mark, I don't know if you had anything else
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you wanted to add in regards to like, Okay, hey
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you had this second book on your shelf. We're making
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our way through Batman, Bruce Wayne, Fugitive, Murderer, whatever you
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have you there anything else you want to add before
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we get into our first part.
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I don't want to get too far ahead, but I
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will say this, I get aggravated with people. I'm like
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she Holds being a really good example of this. Everyone
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kind of hates shen Walters at the start of that
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show because she's a swat, and I said, give it
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a chance. She's probably on the hero's arc whereage it'll
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be better than she was when she started. And lo
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and behold, it wasn't good enough for people. They were
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determined to hate the show no matter what. But she
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is by the time that show ends, she's better off
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the when she started. It's a big deal in less
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episode about how giving up the Bruce Wayne identity was
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the coward's way out. The second book proved that you
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got to go for the ride. That his decision to
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give up Bruce Wayne. He ends up confronting in this volume,
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and he kind of reconstitutes both sides of his personality
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by the end of this, and I think he gave
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a rational explanation for why he did away with the
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Bruce Wayne identity beyond what I was sort of projecting
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onto him. So I think it's important. It's just a note,
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it's really important to go for the right of your
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main character to see if it's going to resolve itself
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before you condemn their shitty behavior. Because this Dave keeps
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reminding me if everything was cool and worked out, the
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wouldn't be much of a story, true if they think
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they faced no obstacles. This is the conversation we have
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about a lot of modern writing and the women characters,
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where they're fully formed at the beginning and go on
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no journey, they learn nothing, they're not better off.
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By the end.
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I could be accused, I think of in the first
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episode of this podcast, not giving the Bruce Wayne character,
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a Batman character a chance.
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But I can only react to what I saw.
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It's not like they resolved it quickly enough within that
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volume to where I got a satisfactory I think it's
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the problem with comic books overall is that they can
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extend this for so long that you don't feel like
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you have an arc. It's just like, well, it's been
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a few years now and he's we've been shitty for
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a while, so it's time we bring it on home.
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Oh.
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I think there's an argument also that remember we had
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a discussion about the extra books that they had in
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the trade that you have, where there was a trade
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that was I think a few years earlier that was
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released and it was pretty much the core of the story,
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and it's like they took a lot of extra stuff
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that really unnecessarily didn't need to be in the trade
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that you had. So it was quite a journey because
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there was a lot of like rabbit holes and stuff
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we went down, peaking Duck Batman being one of them.
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I'm very excited to see what song tonight show.
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Well, I don't have the objection that I had to
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peaking Duck Batman in this book, Like this book is
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really tamed by comparison, right, I will say this. I'm
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gonna let you lead your own show and discussion here.
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But the only last thing I want to add is murder.
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I think was a much meteor story Fugitive was. It
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resolves the mystery well enough, though I do have one
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complaint about that, but ultimately I don't think it's the
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weaker of the two volumes.
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Okay, we'll get into part one. So I divided this
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up semi equally. This is how we're going to do
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things tonight. So our first part is going to be
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the first six issues for six parts of Bruce Wayne Fugitive.
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That's gonna be Birds of Prey number forty three, Batman
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six oh three, Batman six oh four, Detective Comics number
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seven seventy one, Batgirl number twenty nine, and Batman Gotham
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Knight's number thirty and then our second part they're want
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to be talking about tonight. I'm only doing five issues
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and then third part will be a total of seven issues,
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but it broke those up because when we get into
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the third part, it's almost like those last seven are
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a big epilogue kind of talking about some of the
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stuff that's happening after this has all been resolved.
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We'll get to it. So let me go ahead and
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start with the synopsis here for Part one.
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In the issues, we follow multiple threads tied to the
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Bruce Wayne fugitive storyline, showing both the effort to prove
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Bruce's innocence and the psychological toll the ordeal has taken
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on him and his allies. Oracle, night Wing, Alfred and
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others quietly build a strong case suggesting Bruce was framed,
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pointing to tampered evidence and suspicious intrusions, but lack proof
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that can hold up publicly. Meanwhile, Batman's investigation uncovers a
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conspiracy that stretches from organized crime into government agencies, including
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an nsa operative tied to the White House, reinforcing that
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Bruce's framing is part of something far bigger than a
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simple setup. On a more personal level, Bruce is struggling
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with his identity as both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Encounters
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with figures like dying Detective Gary Sloane and moments in
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crime Alley forced him to confront the meaning of his
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mission in his parents' legacy. His actions, such as taking
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bullets to save a criminal, ultimately lead him to reaffirm
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his moral code and accept that Batman and Bruce are
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not separate identities but one unified purpose. However, this clarity
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comes alongside darker behavior, as his increasingly violent methods and
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emotional detachment start to alarm those around them. At the
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same time, the bat family wrestles with doubt and loyalty.
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Night Wing and Batgirl attempt to reconstruct desper fair Child's murder,
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finding evidence of a highly skilled killer, but nothing that
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definitively clears Bruce, forcing them to choose trust over certainty.
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Elsewhere, Jean Paul Valley unstable. His unstable return.
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Is Asrael creates further chaos, culminating in a brutal confrontation
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in the Batcave that highlights just how close Bruce is
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to losing control. Across all these threads, the story builds
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a sense of convergence, multiple players, hidden agendas, and deepening mysteries,
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all circling a truth that remains just.
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Out of reach.
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So where we stop is just before Azrael the Asrael
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issues kick in.
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He realized kicking around like it was a big part
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of Nightfall. But Nightfall was what twenty years ago?
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Yeah, and dude, this is like the two parts that
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we get here, and the next thing that we want
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to talk about is Azrael.
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Agent of the Bat number ninety one and ninety two.
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So that means that that book has been around for
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a good bit going into two thousand and two.
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So Nightfall was like ninety two.
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I want to say, let me know if I'm awfu
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on that, but I want to say Nightfall is ninety
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two or ninety three.
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All right, So the Nightfall saga. By the way, if
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you ever picked up the trade of the night Fall saga,
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it is a fucking weighty too.
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I was going to say pick it up. I don't
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know if I can.
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Yeah, it's about the size of a goddamn phone Book.
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So that's nineteen ninety three through nineteen ninety five. No
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Man's Land is ninety eight to ninety nine. Brus Wayne
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Murder a Fugitive is two thousand and two. Okay, So
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this whole saga is basically nineteen ninety three to two
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thousand and three. It's a ten year Batman saga. And
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it's one of my problems with not knowing that going
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into this, because it's the third part of a Batman trilogy.
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When you think about it, there's Nightfall, then there's No
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Man's Land, then there's this. This is the conclusion, and
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we're gonna find out that events in Nightfall directly played
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into this storyline. And I'm bringing up and like, why
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do you keep bringing him Nightfall because Asrael is still around. Yeah,
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I don't think we've ever talked about Nightfall. I think
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the thing that most people think about Nightfall is it's
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the breaking of the bat But the whole story is
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Asrael takes over for Batman for a while, and in
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the year that he takes over Batman, he beats the
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crap out of people like y and he's also like schizophrenic.
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So eventually Dick Grayson while Batman is like healing and
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going through.
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That whole process.
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Elsewhere, Dick Grayson finally has to like confront Asriel and
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beat the fuck out him and take back the mantle.
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So like the second and third year of that storyline
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is Dick Grayson as Batman and then Bruce coming home
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and reclaiming the mantle.
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Yeah, I was gonna say, so we got Nightfall, I
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think Night's Quest and then Night's End if I remember correctly, still.
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Have it up.
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Yeah, it's prelude to Nightfall, Nightfall and night Quest and
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Night's End.
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Yeah, yeah, I have.
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I read a little bit of Nightfall, and I never
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got into I kind of stopped like shortly there after that,
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so I knew some of the big stuff that you
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were just talking about happened, but I've never read those issues.
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But yeah, this is if we're getting into the issues,
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the issue ninety of like as bats. Shoot, that's if
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you're doing twelve issues a year, ten years would be
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one hundred and twenty, so you're thirty shy of that.
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So Asrael, Yeah, just like you said, still kicking around.
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This has been so this this continues on. That's one
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of my second notes here was like seeing Azrael at
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the end of this arc here before where we get
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to chasing him in his story, watching him show up,
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and then Nightwing be like, oh, what what the hell
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is this guy doing? And he is like he is
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brutal just like you said, He's still like beating the
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crap out of people.
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He is still having like active hallucination of like Saint Dumas, yeah,
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like some like Knights Templar as a skeleton, telling him
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like kill the batman, kill, take back.
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The take back the cowl, take back the cowl, yeah.
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And telling him like, oh, he killed that woman. That
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was the other thing.
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It was like this hallucination was telling him that Bruce
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the Batman was guilty.
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And it's almost like he's got an associative situation, right,
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Like he will wake up from these visions and not
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know what he's done, right like that. There's a point
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where I think in the next books where he wakes
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up and he doesn't know how he got there yet.
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That is the feature just associative identity or so it's
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not completely schizophrenia. It's definitely that because he's blacking out
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and an entirely other personality is taking over.
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The only other note I had here is probably something
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that you definitely wanted to speak on, and that's we
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have two great issues that happen in these six. One
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of the stories is called Turning Point and the other
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one is called Reasons. Turning Point is the one where
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he gets to go and he goes back to crime alley.
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He goes and talks to the cop that is about
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about to die and his cop that this this cop
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doesn't know because Batman goes and talks to him. Bruce
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doesn't because Batman is not Bruce and he will not
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take It's like he sleeps with the mask on, but
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he goes into it mankind, but Batman stinks.
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It's a very good possibility.
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But anyway, he shows up there as Batman and he
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talks to this guy and he talks about how this
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detective was one of the first detectives to show up
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after Martha and Jonathan had gotten killed. So it's at
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that point where there's some cracks finally in the whole
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accepting Batman, accepting Bruce Wayne again. And then I think
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the Reasons is where he shows up and I think
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he's hanging out with Catwoman and they're chasing down this criminal,
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and this is after he had this conversation, and he
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goes to save Tony the Turk Rayonchek, who is a
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mobster who had been abducted by one of Jokers goons, and.
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He actually jumps in front of a bullet for this guy.
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And Calvin's like, what are you doing?
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Why would you do this for a criminal that you
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shouldn't even waste movement on, You shouldn't even waste your
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breath on. And that's where Batman says, well, Okay, I
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am a product of Thomas Wayne, who was a surgeon
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who was somebody who would.
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Save lives no matter what. Batman is not that Bruce is.
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And I think that's where he finally accepted the fact that, Okay,
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I am Bruce Wayne. Cannot separate the two. Batman would
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not be who they are if it wasn't for Bruce
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Wayne living and having the values that Bruce Wayne had.
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So so yeah, those those are the two big issues
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because most of what we saw and murderer was you getting.
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You were getting aggravated about the fact that he was
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just like completely just disowning the fact that he is
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Bruce Wayne and throwing a hissy fit and not talking
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to anybody and not accepting help. Now things have finally changed,
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and these first six so I'll give you the floor.
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Yeah, it's a good first start, like the stuff with
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talking to the detective and he was like, here I
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finished this case for me. I was like craving an
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answer to this mystery by this point, like I'm gonna
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get to it already. I really want to know what
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the whole story is behind the framing.
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We got to work through Bruce's stuff first, though.
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Yeah, I was thinking I always think about things in
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terms of movies.
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I was like, oh, we're up to the part now
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where the reconciliation happens his conversation with Dick into Batmobile
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where he's like I'm sorry.
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He was just like it's fine. I deserve to be punched.
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But he was like, I don't feel great about punching
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my dad figure and he was like, I deserved it fine.
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Yeah.
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You know, like there's definitely a father son dynamic between
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the two of them, but it's not a father child dynamic.
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This is something I crave with my own father and
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I'll probably never have, but I wish my father respected
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me as an adult. And Bruce Batman respects Dick night
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Wing as an adult, as a fully formed person, as
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a colleague, but also his son, and he's managing to
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at this point in the book. He manages to juggle
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all of those things pretty handily. And like I said,
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I wish, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
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I think a lot of adult men wish their parent
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would see them as an adult and not like my baby.
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My daughter is he was twenty about to be twenty one.
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I realized a lot of times when I talked to her,
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I talked to her like she's twelve. I'm not condescending
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in any way. I'm just joking around, but to me,
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she's just never going to be any more than twelve
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years old, and it's hard to look at her and
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hear talk like an adult. Colton who is thirteen, Well,
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he's going to be thirteen in November.
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Dude.
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I've called him baby Colton since he was two years old,
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and he is twelve. I call the dude baby Colton.
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I think I told you about a couple of weeks ago,
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before I went to New Orleans, I had a really
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bad week with my kids. Not that they were bad,
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but like they had to become more vocal than usual
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about not wanting to do everything that the general wants
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them to do.
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Oh yeah, yeah, I.
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Talked about this. I don't need to go back through
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all that again. I basically was lamenting and mourning the
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change in the relationship between my kids where they were
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growing up. They were demanded a bit more autonomy from
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me than I was ready to give them. It was like,
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we're gonna watch this movie or we're gonna go to
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this movie. And Jonas just kept saying over and over
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like I don't want to do this. I don't want
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to do that, Like why do you make us do this?
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And my daughter is more of a people pleaser and
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just kind of like I'm just here, I don't fight.
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But even she like like, oh gosh, I wish I
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had some saying what we're doing. And I was saying
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at the time, I was like, golly, I thought I
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had more time. They're not babies anymore. They're out of
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the stage where they'll just do anything I want to
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do because they're so happy to be with dad. It's
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like no, sometimes they're just not into it and they
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would prefer to just be on the phone with their friends.
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I remember when I was that way, Like, there was
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a point when I was a teenager where I was
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on the phone with my friends all the time.
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This is before cell phones, So I remember the cord Jesse. Yeah,
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it was in the kitchen. Years later.
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It was about twelve feet long, and you're just walking
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around in the house with it. You want some privacy, right,
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and you'd have a phone in your room because you're
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not a fuck an animal. So yeah, I gotta get
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the kitchen phone with a twelve foot cord and go
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sit underneath an end table or some shit, a coffee
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table and talk to your friends and people could find
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you because the cord was all over the house. You
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kids don't know nothing about that. But yeah, I didn't
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want talk to my parents either. I still don't. But
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I wanted to talk to my friends. I wanted to
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go out with my friends. I wanted to be away
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from my family, and I also didn't want to go
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to family functions or stuff.
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That my parents.
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We're gonna go see do Wop in the park, it's
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saying at this Maundry post. And I would be like,
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I would rather kill myself than go with you.
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They were like, you can stay home then it's fine.
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I thought I had more time before my kids would
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get to that point because I feel like I was
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older when that was going on, but maybe I wasn't.
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Who knows I want to go see Ready or not today?
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And I asked them of you guys want to go,
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They're like nope, and I'm like, okay, then I will pick.
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So this is the transition from their mom's weekend to
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my weekend. And I was like, all right, then I'm
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not getting you at twelve. Then I'm gonna get you
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at like three or four o'clock when my movie's over
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and I'm done doing what I got to do for
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the day. They're like whatever, no, okay with that, they
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didn't have to go Weirdly enough, this week, I said,
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the movies I gotta watch for Thursday are Pirates of Penzance,
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The Lovely and a Pery Home Companion, Like, do you
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guys want to watch Pirates of Penzance? And they were
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I was expecting to say, no, I don't want to
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watch your favorite Les Jonas was the first one.
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He was like, yeah, no, I want to watch that one.
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So anyway, getting back to Bruce and Dick, like there's
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a mutual respect while still acknowledging the power disparity between
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them that is inherent in a father son relationship, which
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was nice and I think it was handled well in
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the book.
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Thanks for joining us. All of this would not be
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