WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.759
Someone once told him Delta would never be a big business.
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:14.320
19 years later, he's running a$10 million operation across three markets and is the largest franchisee in the entire network by almost double.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:21.120
No playbook, no shortcuts, just nine acquisitions and two decades of proving everyone wrong.
00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.239
This is Terry Walkerly on the exit plan.
00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.839
Welcome back to another episode of How I Franchise This.
00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:36.399
Today's guest was told by his business coach that Filta could maybe make him a living, but that he'd never build a big business doing it.
00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:42.640
Well, Terry's now at$10 million and the largest franchisee in the network by almost two times.
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.320
19 years with one brand and nine acquisitions.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:48.000
Terry, welcome to the show.
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:49.039
Pumped to have you on.
00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.880
What did you see that that coach didn't see way back in the day?
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:55.759
Well, thanks, Alex, for having me.
00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.600
I don't actually know.
00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:05.359
Uh it's it's interesting because I have these, um, I've had this conversation now a couple times.
00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:14.480
Um, we did we just uh in April, or we're in April and uh March, we just did had our first million dollar month.
00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.000
Um thank you.
00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:25.040
Um it's kind of surreal because it feels grandiose and weird uh that that happens.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.480
And you're like, should I really be celebrating that?
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:29.920
Is it a big milestone?
00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:30.719
Is it not?
00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.439
It it's weird, but it is a big milestone.
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:35.519
We've we've kind of said yes, it is.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:38.319
Um, and we made that happen.
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:47.359
Uh, we are um you know, forecasted it looks like we're gonna have another uh repeat in April, so it's pretty exciting about that.
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:48.079
Let's go.
00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:59.760
And so that that kind of prompted this whole thought that you know um when I was looking at Filta, is this gonna be a big business or can I make this a big business?
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:06.000
And and my my coach was not really saying like you can't do it, Terry.
00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:14.800
It was just more like the business, like this business model at the time, um maybe wasn't gonna get there.
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:30.240
And um, and so you know, I think the thing that I again, my my my process or the way that I thought about the business initially was I thought it was a really good idea.
00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:44.639
And um, and I thought that the you know, I I had some fits and starts because I I thought maybe I was really interested in getting at the oil because I wouldn't wanted that oil to be converted into biodiesel.
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.479
So that's kind of how I found it.
00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:49.840
And for the for the audience, quick, what does Filta do again?
00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:51.759
Sorry, I just realized we didn't cover that.
00:02:52.080 --> 00:03:04.479
Yeah, so uh yeah, so Filta um Filta provides um uh filtering and cleaning services to restaurants, uh food service operators.
00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:16.240
Uh, we do um fresh oil sales that you cook in, clean and maintain and filter that oil and the deep fryers uh so that the oil will last longer.
00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:22.400
Then we take the waste oil away, um, and then that waste oil gets sold into the market.
00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.080
Um, you know, for the most part, it's getting sold into the biodiesel fuel market.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:38.960
So there's people that are manufacturing feeds buying this as a feedstock, they they manufacture it, they make fuel, and then it gets blended into the into the diesel market.
00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:47.919
Um, and then we've we've recently um added a um filter like a uh deep cleaning service.
00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:54.000
So we do ceilings, walls, floors, um, deep cleaning of kitchen equipment.
00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:01.680
Um so pretty much everything in the back of the house uh in a restaurant or you do something with walk-in freezers too, right?
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:02.560
We do.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.000
We have um we have two other smaller products.
00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:21.439
So we have uh a it's a humidification type system um that goes into a walk-in freezer um and it takes moisture and and it helps eliminate mold um that grows in the walk-ins.
00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:26.959
Um keeps you know, a lot of times walk-ins will have moisture on the floor or around.
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:33.519
Um, so that helps uh eliminate that uh um those problems.
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.040
And then we do some drains.
00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.279
So we have a product that um goes into drains.
00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:45.439
You know, typically, I mean, everybody's been in a bar where you're sitting at the bar and you see your fruit fruit flies flying around.
00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.160
Um, those guys are pretty hard to keep get away.
00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:56.319
Uh so we have a product that that'll um go in and clean the drains and then helps uh keep those fruit flies at uh at bay.
00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:06.560
So um those are really the uh the core business is our um oil, selling oil, filtering, cleaning, deep friars, taking the waste away.
00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.560
Um and then those other products are kind of add-ons um uh that we work with.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:20.000
So and so you're saying you were looking for a business that you could get to the oil to sell, you know, essentially to make diesel, right?
00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:24.079
Like this is where like your interest initially sparked and that was yeah.
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.920
So, you know, prior to this, I I I spent 15 years.
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.360
Uh um, I owned a moving and storage business.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:38.959
And um that business uh we um closed in 2006.
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:45.199
Um was looking for something different to do uh and wasn't sure what that was.
00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.879
Um, but at the time they were running cars on vegetable oil.
00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:56.399
It's like people were converting cars and um uh diesel vehicles, and they were you know running on fuel.
00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:03.839
And I thought, oh, well, that's kind of interesting, and maybe I'll get into that business and um, you know, make fuel.
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:09.040
Uh and along the way, I found Filta.
00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:16.879
Um and so that was, you know, the uh Filta at the time was an you know really considered an emerging brand.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:20.560
They were that 2004 they came to the United States.
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.199
Um, it's a UK-based company.
00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:34.319
Uh, the founder had had additionally thought that um, you know, he partnered with a company that built this filtration machine, and they thought, well, we'll just sell this machine.
00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:53.120
And then he uh was at a uh a franchise conference and he met the other co-founder um that said, no, we should make this into a franchise, like sell it as a service, um, have this machine as our proprietary um idea.
00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.360
And uh that's how that that's how FilterGot was born.
00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:02.319
Um, and then they came to the states uh and started franchising.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.560
So we were we were uh 2007.
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:20.560
Um I came in uh and the the story is funny because again, had a coach, we talked about the business, we you know, we did some modeling and and looked at it, and he's like, Yeah, you know what'll be a decent, you'll make a little bit of money.
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.920
May not not likely to be a big business.
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:40.000
Um, because you know, again, we're looking at territory, we're you know, the um what who our customer base was, it was a it's a small sale, like a transaction-wise, it's a lot of transactions, small sale.
00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:46.160
Um, and the uh when I was looking at it, um, I was like, yeah, you know, I don't know.
00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:54.959
It fits my skill set, all the things that you know I had been doing my whole career, managing labor, looking at routes, logistics.
00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.279
Um, you know, it was considered a B2B sale.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.360
I mean, you're selling to restaurateurs, so you're not selling to an individual.
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:12.160
Um, and I kind of wanted to get away from that because we did a lot of uh uh local and and individual homeowners that we were selling to.
00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:16.000
We didn't do a ton of corporate work in our moving business.
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:31.759
Um, so there was a lot of things that kind of checked those boxes, and um so that was really what said, okay, I can do this, and and I I think I can make a decent living at it um and and grow it.
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:51.440
Um and the I think the final decision was, you know, I'm sitting and evaluating options, I'm having coffee at the coffee shop, reading the newspaper, um, and you know, I had always read the classifieds uh in in the moving business because that would tell you who's hiring.
00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:57.120
And then so you get leads and see, you know, companies that are hiring people or moving people in.
00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:04.399
And uh the business opportunities section in the in the paper, there was a filta franchisee for sale.
00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:06.799
And I was like, what in the heck?
00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:20.799
So I'm like, I was in Florida at the Discovery Day, and and they had told me that the territory that I live in, so our where I live in Cleveland, it was broken up into three territories.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:28.080
Um, and the west side, the western, northwestern part of the county was sold, and that's where I live.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.000
Um, and it was this guy.
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:35.039
So I pick up the phone, I call the number, and I'm like, hey, you know, I I was just in Florida, blah, blah, blah.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.960
You know, I thought you guys uh had been in the business for a while.
00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:45.600
He said, Well, no, we just bought it, we just opened like two months ago, and this is not what we signed up for.
00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:47.919
He said, So we gotta get out.
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.679
And I was like, Oh, really?
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:54.240
I said, Well, I was gonna buy the other territory, so let's talk.
00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:00.720
And uh ended up buying his business because I I was like, Well, that it seems like that's what it's supposed to be, right?
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:25.679
Um, he had a couple of accounts, and um uh so that's that was the start of it, and and I I just uh from there um you know, started uh I I spent the first six or eight months uh on the truck learning the business, um, doing the work, just so I understood what was going on and how it was.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:35.519
I had a handful of franchisees that I knew that were in the market, uh, or that were in, you know, there was Ohio actually was interesting.
00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.240
There was um three or four guys.
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:43.919
There was a guy in Dayton in in Columbus, uh and then there was a guy in in Kentucky.
00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:49.759
And these guys had been in for a little bit, so we kind of had a group of people that you know I could lean on.
00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:59.759
Um, and you know, just a another just kind of funny side note on this is it gonna be a big business or or different?
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:11.120
Um about a year or so into the business, and uh, you know, now I had hired a couple guys, I had a couple trucks on the road, and um I'm like, what in the hell did I do?
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:29.919
Like, like I'm doing like you know, ten thousand dollars a month, and I'm not making, you know, I'm I'm putting, I'm not taking a salary, I'm putting everything back into the business, and I'm out there trying not, you know, um educate customers on the service because there's like nobody ever nobody's doing this.
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:39.200
And so I'm calling around and and at the time, you know, Filta never they didn't really, you didn't know where everybody was at.
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:52.399
Like today, you know, they have a scoreboard, they rank, you know, so you know who your top um, who you're ranked against and the top, you know, 50 franchisees, and uh, but then you didn't have it.
00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:53.759
So I'm like, I gotta find out.
00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:55.120
So I just called everybody.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:02.799
Like I was calling people that I I had heard that had been in the system longer than me, and and um, and I was asking.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:08.159
And so I heard this guy in San Francisco, like he was the top guy at the time.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:22.080
And uh so I call him up on the phone, and his name was Julian Yates, and I'm like, hey Julian, I said, you know, I'm Terry, I've been in the business for about a year, and you know, I'm I'm really trying to figure out like, is this good revenue or bad?
00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:23.840
Like, am I where am I at?
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.840
Like, am I on track?
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:30.639
And uh, you know, again, I'm doing like 10 to 12 grand a month or something.
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:37.200
And uh he says, Oh, he says, Well, I'm only doing about eight grand a month.
00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.360
And at that point, I'm like, oh shit, what did I get?
00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.039
Brett was right, you know, what did I get myself into?
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:52.080
Um, so but you know, as time progressed, I mean, obviously things continued to to grow.
00:12:52.240 --> 00:13:00.399
Uh just kind of kept my head down and and um and you know, believed that it was gonna build.
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:24.559
Um and every van that I put on, every next person, and you know, those first probably five years were really, you know, hustling to um get customers, you know, develop the national brands that you know, Filta had had put in some agreements with some of the national food service vendors.
00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.559
And so we were able to have kind of a license to sell into these organizations.
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:54.320
Um, and you know, then you really even then it wasn't much scale, but it was, you know, you started to have, you know, four or five technicians, there were some sales coming in, um, starting to build some systems, and then we were talking um about uh selling fresh oil to the customers um in bulk.
00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:03.759
And so Philta and I worked on that system together and and built uh um a delivery system to to sell in bulk.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:16.720
Uh so you know, as first probably five, five to seven years really was a lot of like them figuring out, you know, what other things can we add on, what other services and products.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:29.039
Um I happened to be the guinea pig because I I you know we were moving along um and growing, and I raised my hand a lot to say, yeah, I'm I'm I'm in to try to figure this out.
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:44.720
Um and you know, one of the things that I I learned from that is um I actually I learned a couple things, but you know, one there is an advantage obviously to being um in the good graces of the franchise ore, right?
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:51.200
And having a good relationship, even though oftentimes you don't agree with everything that they're doing.
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:51.679
Yeah.
00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.559
Um, or you know, how it's going.
00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:15.519
Like it's you know, everybody complains about the royalty and you know, or what what the franchise ore is doing for you, but in the same token, there's there's a I think there's a real advantage to um to playing nice and and then also um uh working together.
00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:28.399
Um not that I got anything really from, you know, and I think it wasn't didn't even have any special favors, but I think that that long term has developed and and grown into a good relationship for us.
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:34.639
Um and then I was gonna say sorry, sorry, some something else you'd said earlier, too.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:35.440
I'm curious about.
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:41.600
So you you'd bought the territory rights to one location, and then out of the gate you do an acquisition, you're like, all right, I'm I'm doing this.
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:43.759
You've proceeded to do eight cents then.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.679
For those listening, you know, how do you go about doing something like that?
00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.480
I mean, at that point you're buying a few customers maybe in a truck.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:59.519
Do you value the business based on the hard assets of the vehicle, or is it on a multiple of revenue, or is each deal a little bit different?
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:08.399
Um, well, so today, now I I there is an easier, not an there's a little bit of a formula, I guess.
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:30.720
Um, you know, in but like then um it was it was significantly less expensive for me to buy his business than to go and buy the franchise or like I would have spent you know with franchise fee and all that, I may call it 180 grand or whatever, and I think I bought it for 50 or something like that.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:39.919
Yeah, I mean it was like I bought the truck and and his you know cut gave him a little bit of money for customers and you know he he wanted to get out.
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:55.919
Um the the second deal that I did was probably a few years, uh I want to say that that guy um I had bought the other all the then the remaining territories um in Cleveland, so Cuyoga County.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:01.440
So I bought that initial one, and then about a year later I bought the other three.
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.840
Um, so I had the whole county.
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:29.839
Um there was a gentleman that was then down south of us, um, it's about four about 30 minutes away from us, that had owned um a territory, and I had just I had been friendly with him uh for a few years, and then uh he got sick and you know wanted to call me up and and so we ended up buying his territory.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.559
And again, that we valued really pretty much on he had a van, he had some customer base.
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:48.960
I think I probably paid him um you know what what he was doing in annual or in um yeah in annual revenue, like one times revenue, I think, at that time.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:18:33.200
Now, today, um you know, most of the deals we look at, because it's again they're small, um they're not like our our our biggest deal um has been around six hundred thousand in revenue, uh so a handful of um you know a handful of uh vans and and technicians, um you know, so um and and those deals that been that you know you really can't look at like sellers discretionary earnings or at EBITDA or anything, because like most people don't have run very good financials.
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:42.400
Um so the way the way that I looked at them, uh all these deals has really been kind of like, you know, what can we do in the market?
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:46.480
What am I really willing to pay for it?
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:55.680
Um, and then recognizing like uh what needs to happen because almost every deal I've gone into, I've had to replace all the equipment.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:23.119
So like vans are you know, um b just because of the I think it's been the kind of the nature of this business where people just um are they're some people have come in and they they built a job for themselves, they add a few more vans, um, they you know then run equipment till it you know and the wheels fall off.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:27.920
And it doesn't have any value at that point because you're you know you're trying to sell that seat.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:34.720
So, you know, like you I look at a deal and say, you know, is this market where can we go with this?
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:44.160
Um they've all landed somewhere between 65% of revenue, um, is really kind of uh interesting.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.240
Like that's that's kind of been where it's at.
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:59.039
65 to 70 on the high end, around 75% of uh of revenue, which would be about three times EBITDA if you were looking or three times SDE, however you want to look at that.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:01.359
And is the math for you on that?
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:13.599
You're saying doing that versus starting over if you're replacing the equipment, especially, is it's really you want the customer list and the territory without you know 20, 30, 40k franchise fee or whatever you know it may be there.
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.599
And that is that the math on it for you?
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:16.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:25.039
I mean, and again, like there's there's value if you have technician, good technicians andor a supervisor or a manager.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:31.519
Um, like we we expanded into Buffalo last year, um, have a super manager there.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.880
Um, I mean, she's turned out to be a superstar.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.519
Um, and uh, you know, we had to replace all the equipment.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:49.759
Like we put put all new V all new vans in there and and um I think we put almost all new filtration equipment in there too.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:21:07.200
Um so you know, we made an investment on top of the um this the uh uh the purchase price, but we you know the we had we're walking in there with half a million dollars worth of revenue right off the bat.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:21.680
Um so you know, you you um it's that is uh you'd probably when I look at the math to to start, I mean like what you call a greenfield, right?
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:33.359
If go into a market, and we have that, like we so we have rights to go into Rochester, so that'll be a different, you know, we'll have to build it out, you know, we'll have to add all the new equipment, we'll have to hire all the people.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:47.759
By the time you look at that, you know, you're probably spending about half of what you would spend on that, um, you know, to uh um to buy it if it ha if it was running at, you know, couple hundred to half a million bucks.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:59.200
So um so it's you know, for us today, um the deals are w what what we are looking at is exactly like you said.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:13.680
I mean it's Customer list or and if there is some of uh service techs in the in there or some leadership potential or people that are in leadership, um, you know, that adds value.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:29.440
Um, and then, you know, the equipment, um, we look less at, you know, we're kind of less concerned about that that's where we're taking discount, is on if we're gonna be, you know, having to buy replace a bunch of vans.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:36.960
Um, and then also if they have um uh a depot already built out.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:49.759
So um, because like again, Buffalo was a location we had to we had to move and kind of re rebuild out the so we had we had a lot more expense there um than what we would have thought.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:55.119
But on the same token, um you know, that was a good deal.
00:22:55.359 --> 00:23:04.160
Um, you know, when we went into Pittsburgh, those are those were markets that were had I bought from two individual operators.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:09.200
Um they were running uh running the business themselves.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:20.160
Um, you know, it's a little challenging because, you know, again, they're they're like, hey, I'm making$150,000 a year, but you're doing all the work, right?
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.000
So if you're the one that does all the work, there's no value technically in the business.
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:35.440
So you have to kind of look at it and say, you know, what's it worth to me um to buy it and kind of get over the fact that I probably overpaid.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:36.640
Right.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:24:00.000
Because you're just, you know, it it it's I think that there's a huge advantage as a franchisee to buy uh from an existing franchisees um because they want to, they want, they they do want to work with somebody that they know and they trust or have a relationship with.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:16.000
Um, but they also just like anybody else that you're going out and buying something from, um, you know, uh overvalues or think it has you know much more value than it it's worth.
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:25.599
Um and you know, they want to um uh they want to kind of ride on your success.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:35.039
I'm like, well, yeah, just because I know I know that I can come in and you know triple this overnight, like doesn't mean that it's anything more.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.640
Yeah.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:43.599
So have there have there been deals your or opportunities within the filter system that you've turned down?
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.319
And if so, why did you turn them down?
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:53.119
Um there hasn't anything that I've there hasn't been anything that I've turned down.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:58.000
Um there's been a couple deals that have not transpired.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:12.480
Um I had a deal up in Michigan uh that the um we were at we were at the finish line and uh um he just decided that he won he was gonna keep it for a little longer.
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:26.960
Um and you know, there was I think we were priced fair, but there was, you know, he is he was trying to figure out how he was gonna come out from under some of the debt.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:35.440
And uh, you know, it's that um, you know, it's that walk away money that you have to decide on, right?
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:52.880
You say, okay, if I'm gonna sell the business, um and what what is it that I'm willing to walk away with uh in this sale and when you're looking at price, and you gotta obviously play into that factor that there's working capital and then there is your debt.
00:25:53.119 --> 00:26:01.839
So when you add all those in, and if your walk-away money is not enough, then you know, I mean, that's not my problem as the buyer.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:10.960
Um but the uh um I think that there's uh you know that's a challenge that people have.
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:32.000
Um I've had two deals, my I had a deal in in uh in Pittsburgh, the one deal in Pittsburgh, and a guy I bought in the um he was in his his location was actually in Akron, but he he covered a a territory um east of there.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:36.960
And uh um, you know, we had two fails on both.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:42.400
I mean we came back to the table, but initially we're like, you know, pretty far apart.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:51.599
And um, and it was really had to do with that understanding of like uh, you know, yeah, you got debt, you gotta pay that.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:04.480
And you like that you that's a real that's a real number that you know if you you gotta figure out it's either gonna come out of your proceeds or you know, or you gotta take it out of your checking account.
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.400
Like it's one of the two.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:23.839
Um so those are um those are probab those are the only two that that uh had and the Pittsburgh deal came around and and even the the Michigan deal, um I that'll come back around.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:24.799
I know it will.
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:46.079
Uh he and I have a good relationship and and um so you know I think that there's uh for us, you know, we we've the acquisitions since COVID really kind of became a um a part of our growth strategy.
00:27:46.319 --> 00:28:12.319
Um I wouldn't say that our our strategy is to, you know, uh is just to do acquisitions, because we we do have um a lot of uh available opportunity in um in our existing markets, so that our grant organic growth is still a a big part of uh what we're trying to to accomplish to grow the business.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:26.400
But um, you know, I think that the franchise or I think there's value for them to have, you know, um, I mean the 80-20 rule certainly plays a factor in Filta franchise.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:39.599
Um you know, that the majority of the revenues coming from uh the top 20% uh of the franchisees, and it's been that way since I started 19 years ago.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.759
Um, and I don't see that ever changing.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:29:38.160
Um even though they want to bring more people up, there there's it's just I I mean, there's a reason that that Pareto principle exists, and the uh um you know, so they want to make sure that, you know, I think they have a you know um every the franchise probably do get concerned about people that are you know a franchisee that gets too big or is um but in the same token, like, you know, we've been able to perform um and we're a good franchisee, like we we follow the rules, we we're compliant, we we support the system, we're you know, we're willing to help other franchisees, and I think all of that uh goodwill we've been building over the years.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:47.920
So um, you know, so provides opportunities uh for us today to say, hey, if there's something going on and you know we're paying attention.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:54.720
I'm not um we haven't really looked out really far outside of our contiguous markets.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:03.039
So, you know, we're now in Ohio, all of Ohio, um western Pennsylvania, um, and then kind of western New York.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:17.279
So everything's really pretty connected within, you know, um uh let's see, I want to say Buffalo's about three, yeah, everything's about three, the furthest about three and a half hours from our Cleveland location.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.680
Um we haven't got on an airplane yet to go anywhere.
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:24.240
Wow, that's nice.
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:29.680
Well, you you mentioned, you know, early on to you're just investing everything back into the business.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.720
I mean, really for the first eight or nine years you shared with me.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:42.640
And I'm curious, was your thought process there once you started to see, hey, there's this ability to keep you know doing greenfield and adding acquisition and growing.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:48.400
I'm gonna put every dollar back in, or what, what were you, I guess, thinking at the time of every dollar back in?
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.599
And was that an easy decision for you as you as you made it?
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.200
Um it I don't know that it was an easy decision.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:22.960
Some of it was like uh some of it was, you know, I mean, fortunately, my my uh uh my my wife is amazing and it's took care of us those those years, uh um you know, took care of the family and and uh um and got us going so so I had some ability to do that, um, to not have to pull a lot out of the business.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:31.200
But I think the biggest thing was really just thinking about if I'm gonna continue to grow this business, like I can't do it all by myself.
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:38.240
Like I I'm not I need to have, you know, and start to build that infrastructure in the business.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.759
So I've always been a proponent of firing ahead.
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.519
So really kind of looking at what do I need?
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:55.680
If I'm not the guy that's gonna be out talking to the customer and selling and on the street, then I probably need to have somebody selling and on the street.
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:16.480
Um, and you know, so there was a point that that became true where I'm like, I can't, you know, I can't continue to have my hands wrapped around operations and um and understanding the numbers and finance and and then be out there trying to prospect and sell every day.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:25.119
Um so you know, I kind of simultaneously brought in uh I promoted a technician to operations manager.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:29.759
Um, and then you know, I'd I'd started hiring salespeople.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:41.519
Um, and then I kind of you know acted as the um CFO, CEO, if you will, or you know, like I I kind of was hands-on all those things.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.480
Um and that that ops manager, um Ryan, uh, was with me for 10 years.
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.519
Um uh, you know, helped grow the business.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:03.359
Um, you know, and and it just was an example of, you know, that there's just a time as you continue to grow that the business outgrows people.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:08.799
And I think Ryan was ready to move on uh uh into something else as well.
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:16.319
Uh and the same's true with salespeople, like you know, you get some people that work and some people that don't, and and you gotta kind of manage that.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.920
Um, so we've really I've made those investments, even though it sometimes it was painful.
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.119
Like you're spending money on uh you know uh infrastructure.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:36.319
Um, you know, and uh as we've continued to grow, um, you know, now I have fairly senior leaders.
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:42.400
I mean, I have a I have a senior leadership team, and I have another layer of leaders in bel in between there.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:50.160
Um, and you know, uh that's because again, where we're going, you we need that.
00:33:50.480 --> 00:34:02.160
Um I can make a lot more money probably with you know uh having some less people and things wouldn't be moving quite as quickly as they do.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:12.559
Uh but um in the same token, like there's to to continue to scale and grow, like those investments have to be made.
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:18.559
Um, and you need to be thinking about it before you you're there, right?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:31.599
So, and you know, I mean anybody that's opened up a business book will tell you and has and actually read it, would tell you that like these are the things that you need to be paying attention to, right?
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:37.760
Find the people that uh that do the things that you don't want to do and then do them better.
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:45.599
Um and you know, so uh the that's what I've always continued to try to do.
00:34:45.760 --> 00:35:01.599
And um, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but um, and it's an investment, you know, it's not like it's not like I can't spend this or it's an expense, it's more, it's always an investment um in in those people.
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:10.559
Um and then we get better and you know, and then look at the next uh, you know, where the next next opportunity comes from.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.519
Yeah, and I think that's a a a good transition to uh the question I have for you.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.239
I think a lot of people, you know, listening want to get to this point.
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:27.840
You know, they want to be multi-territory operator that if it were up to them, the business might not need them day to day.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:38.079
They could travel more, they have more flexibility because they now have a team, they have a system in place, they've put in the hard work early on, and you're you know, you're you've done it and you're you're living that now if you want.
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:46.480
For those listening, what do you think they need to get right out of the gate or early on to even have a shot at making it this far?
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:51.760
Um I think there's I think there's a few things.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:58.400
Like um mindset is probably 90% of it, right?
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:04.400
There's that there's a decision to say, look, I'm uh this is what I want to do.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:19.760
And and frankly, there's nothing wrong with saying I'm gonna have a million-dollar business, I want to make a you know, 150, 200 grand, you know, and and you know, this thing's going, and I got some people here and and I don't mind doing a little bit of the work or doing this.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.039
Nothing wrong with that.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:41.440
Um and then there's the decision like I want to build this, um, I want to build a bigger business that I can, as you said, I want to be able to not have to be involved in the day-to-day, or I don't want to be doing this, or I, you know, and I want to be able to walk away and uh and have time off and and not be worried about the place burning down.
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:48.559
And um, and I think so there's a decision that has to be made and says, okay, you know, that this is what I want to do.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:55.920
I want to grow this thing, and um, and yet I don't want to be working in the day-to-day.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:58.320
So um, what does that mean?
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.559
What do I have to do to make that happen?
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.400
And for me, what I have to do is I have to invest that in people.
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:15.599
So, you know, I spend a lot of money in I have a um, I have a a COO um in my that runs the day-to-day, she runs the business.
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:21.440
Um, and you know, I have, I mean, I literally have two reports.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:27.679
I have her and I have an outsourced um FPA, you know, finance guy.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:34.079
So he handles all of our IT, and then he's he does all our of our uh financial reporting and planning.
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:46.320
Um and then I guess I have an outsourced accounting firm that um does all our bookkeeping and and accounting uh that I I kind of oversee.
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.039
So um, but that's it.
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:53.920
And then you know, we have 78 people and Melissa is in charge of the rest of them.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:58.960
I mean, ultimately I am, but like she's they don't all report to her.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:11.119
She has you know a handful of folks, but regionals um yeah, so but the but the thing is is that like again, that's a decision that I made when you think about how to go there.
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:26.880
So if you're in and I, you know, talking to somebody that is uh in the three to five million dollar range, you know, um business like our our next kind of level we have people that are three to you know three to five, three to seven.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.639
Um I think there's one guy that's probably close to seven.
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:49.440
Um and you know, they're still like the owners are still doing some part of that day to day, whether it's the sales component, whether it's the you know, that that ops component, um that are then have the reports, you know, those folks reporting to them.
00:38:49.679 --> 00:39:01.840
And if that's a the choice to then scale and grow is you have to make the choice, do you want to stay here, or do you want to make an investment for somebody to come in and take over these roles?
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.000
So now you can really kind of think about where you're gonna go next.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:23.039
Um, and where you're gonna go next can either be like, I'm just gonna go hang out, treat this as you know, an investment, or you know, I'm overseeing the business um and pulling out and it and that's working for me, or I want to continue to grow this.
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:30.159
So I really have to be thinking about the things that are required to to take this business to the next level.
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:41.440
Um, and so that's I think that's a that's a big difference uh where people get stuck is that you know, you're like, okay, well, what am I gonna do next?
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:43.599
Or where do I go next?
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:53.920
And I don't know that I can afford$150,000 or$200,000 for these extra bodies um when I can do the work.
00:39:54.079 --> 00:40:11.440
Like I can absolutely do what Melissa's doing, or um, you know, my regional supervisors, but then that prevents me and it prevent and it it's a bottleneck in the business because it doesn't allow the business to grow.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:19.199
Um and so I think that people have to like you have to one make that decision.
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:30.800
Um you have to make the decision to um to do that and say, you know, am I willing to make this investment?
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:34.000
Where do I fit in this criteria?
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.440
And then, you know, where can I go?
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:45.840
Because I I see the business now, like, you know, I mean, we're we've we've been growing pretty well.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:54.400
Uh, you know, we're we average about 18 to 20 percent a year, um that's where we've been since COVID.
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:57.199
And again, some of that is acquisitions.
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:02.639
Um, you know, our organic growth is about 10 and 10 or 11 percent.
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:22.880
Um, and so you know, we've had good growth, and um, you know, uh, but we've also made lots of infrastructure um and people additions that because as you grow and we've spread out, you have these extra layers, and we're still trying to figure that out and learn like what does that look like?
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:24.000
How does that work?
00:41:24.559 --> 00:42:02.079
Uh when you have you know, you have supervisors on the field in seven different locations, and then how do you manage this, you know, this whole group, and um who's in charge of that, and uh, and how you know bringing everybody together uh virtually um is something I think we've been good at because we've been virtual from day one, but it's also difficult as you continue to scale and have more people, um, because you really got to be focused on you know where you want to go and and how how you're gonna how you're gonna get there.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:03.119
Yeah.
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.480
Well, that's a good good segue into my last couple of questions.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:23.920
And these are it's kind of a segment we do towards the end where it's kind of quick hitters, couple sentence answers, and I think I might know the answer to this first one, but it's you know, what is what is one hire that's made it possible for you to leave for a month if you wanted to and nothing breaks.
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:32.800
I mean, that was our operations uh uh really but each time.
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:39.599
Uh so Ryan, there was a point um that we got to where you know um I do that.
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:44.800
I actually I leave for the month of July, so I'm I'm up to eight weeks now.
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:47.119
So there you go.
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:58.000
And uh um so and of course, you know, Melissa um is our COO, and uh she's in that role.
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.360
Like I I don't really need to be there.
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:07.920
So um, and I frankly I do, I mean, I I only I participate in a handful of meetings.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:29.519
Um I'm on a handful of calls uh with uh senior leadership team uh that has some supervisors and then uh executive leadership team, and then have a couple one-on-ones with with them, uh with Melissa and and uh and my um FPA guy.
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:34.639
But the uh um, you know, for the most part, like they're involved.
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:48.239
And that that is, I think, the that's the biggest um uh hire, at least for me personally, to be out and and be able to focus on the business and how to how to how to grow this.
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:55.360
Um you could also say that sales is a big component if if you want to grow too, because you need to have that.
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:17.760
But you know, the uh uh for me personally you know, having that right person that uh can really kind of act and and operate in the way that I was operating by having a sales team, by having an ops team and and managing them so I can focus on the higher level stuff.
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:18.400
Yeah.
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:21.760
Sounds like ops was really that that unlock at first.
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:27.920
And from there you chase the bottleneck and you figure out what other you know what the next next level or the next unlock is.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:46:12.880
My next question is you so you mentor ETA students at Case Western what do you think the biggest gap between what they think franchising is and what it actually is is um well so yeah a lot of people don't uh and especially at at um case we have a they have an award that they don't actually award franchise businesses so they have like an upstart and a weatherhead long-term business so they have this view that franchises aren't real businesses for whatever reason um but the um um you know people in ETA I think are coming around to the idea of um of franchises as a as a real opportunity um but what people do see is they're like hey you know you got this um kind of overlord or you have this you know like uh um this group that's you know telling you everything that you need to do and some of that is true like there's there is the truth to the like yeah you gotta follow the you gotta follow the rules or you gotta follow the and be compliant right but um it's not as uh it's not as restrictive even when I started like that was a concern for me um because you know I don't necessarily color well inside the lines um and and so the but in the same token like they put together this system and and Filta at the time when they were they're emerging so they still were trying to figure out what the heck they were doing.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:21.760
And so we you know it allowed for a lot of flexibility for me to to just do my thing and and grow and develop.
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:34.079
I think the the what I've talked to people about is you know the advantages are that there's it's it's maybe even less the franchise or and more the system.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:49.840
So um it allows for franchises allows for you uh to to just pick up the phone and call somebody and say ask them what's going on and how they do things because one you're not competing against each other.
00:46:50.079 --> 00:47:09.119
So there's no reason for me not to tell you what's going on in my world um and and you can learn so much from that um and it's also just a way to commiserate too like if you if you are having a problem like it's it's a good you know that there's there aren't other opportunities out there.
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:33.920
You go buy a manufacturing business from you know Jim who's 75 and has run this business for 50 years um and he's competing with all these other you know there's no you don't have that opportunity right you have to create your own peer network or you got to join other peer networks to to get kind of that uh ability to talk to people about how things are going.
00:47:34.079 --> 00:49:05.599
We're franchising um that I I think you know that's been one of the big um taken advantage of that a lot from day one you know like just calling people when even before due diligence I called a ton of people and then you know once I got in I was calling people and and you know I've I've had tried my hand a few times at creating some benchmarking groups and you know so I have a group of people that we talk to and but I that that's a that's a huge benefit um to the system and then some of it is you know like today now guys can come into this um or guys and gals can come into the system and you know it's not McDonald's you know that you do it exactly this way every time and you know but it is um you know the framework's there and you follow this framework um and you know we have some uh corporate business that you know gives you a a license to sell and you know you go out and do what you're supposed to do you're gonna get that business and and you can ramp up pretty quickly a lot quicker than when I started um and so I think that those are those are the advantages and you know um to be in this in a in a franchise system and the misconception is I think more that you know you're you're really only going to do what they tell you to do.
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:17.599
And um I think depending on the brand but I know at least for Filta you know there's been a lot more flexibility than you know I would I would think there's been in other brands.
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:18.800
Yep.
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:31.840
Well then my last question for you too before we uh we wrap up is what do you think one I guess what's one thing most new franchisees get wrong in the first year?
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.760
That's an interesting question.
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:47.360
What they get wrong um I don't think that people at least what I see in our system is um I don't think people have come in with enough working capital.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:50:45.119
I was I you know in and it was true for me um as we continue to expand um not really uh um you know when I I talk to people about uh you know the opportunity to to come into the network um you know I do talk about that like making sure you have enough extra cash and understand that there's gonna be this you know a ramp up period so I think there's like people don't really take into account you know if you're gonna spend 150 grand or whatever then I don't even know what the fee is let's but if it's that and then you probably need another 50 to 100 sitting and available to you to to um to get yourself going.
00:50:45.280 --> 00:51:05.440
And then the the second thing I think is um people I don't know that people really um think through what their skill set is um and and then are willing to rep willing to hire and make the investment in what is not their skill set.
00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:13.039
So I mean like initially when you're in this in in this business you're talking about operations and sales.
00:51:13.199 --> 00:53:44.079
I mean it and I would argue that filter is more of an operational business than it is a sales business even though it's a chicken and the egg kind of scenario um because you really got to do operations really well um and that will because of the nature of the industry you know there'll be a lot of referral and there'll be a lot of you know um uh opportunities to just come to you but you do need to be out there selling to grow the business and so if you're not a good salesperson then you you need to you need to figure out how to bring that person in or bring somebody in to get you some some business and understand how to manage them if you're strong in operations and the same is true on the other side if you're if you are a good salesperson um and you know you're um you're okay at ops or you know you understand how to manage people um then uh you know get that operations person and then lastly I don't think I think in every business um you know you're never gonna get away from people right but I think pe I think everybody underestimates how difficult it is to manage um and uh um coach and build a culture um in a team uh even if you've come out a corporate and you know I've never worked outside of working for myself so I you know I I'm sure that if you'd ran a team in a in a corporate environment you understand that but it's still different when now it's your dollar right and um trying to figure out how to bring in blue collar workers how to motivate them how to treat them right how to get them to do what they got to do and I think people underestimate how um uh how challenging that is um and and I think it continues to get more challenging so you have to um goes kind of back to that mindset right you say you can't sit here and say nobody wants to work because if you sit here and say nobody wants to work you're never gonna find anybody you know you have to actually believe that 100% which I do that there's people want to people are out there um and you know you got to create a great environment for them to be at and then uh support them and then then you find them.
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:51.199
So I think those are kind of the those are I mean and and that encompasses the whole business right that's people, sales and ops.
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:52.239
Yep.
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:56.960
I agree with you too often too often I get asked you know how do I do this?
00:53:57.039 --> 00:53:57.599
How do I do that?
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:07.280
And it's it's typically you know there's people that see problems instead of solutions and I feel like you have to be solution oriented to like anything you know we're not going to Mars or anything.
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:12.239
So what we're doing there's likely a solve for there's likely some sort of answer.
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:18.559
It might not be the best answer but there's an answer and there's options and as long as you have that attitude of I'm gonna go figure this problem out.
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:24.239
I'm gonna go work the problem nine times out of 10 you work the problem and you figure it out and you get there.
00:54:24.639 --> 00:55:57.760
But too often I think people think oh well there's this and there's that and I don't have enough people I don't have enough customers I don't have enough money how did you do that you had all this money you were lucky and it's just like oh you're just okay fine live live the rest of your life that way because I can't help you yeah and you know again I'm not a I I'm not a believer that everybody is cut out for this right I mean you know there's it's the it the opportunity is for everybody sure you but to your point you can't like um not everybody's cut out to be an entrepreneur or to own their own business um and because of that because there's there's there's a it's not easy and you know um the there's lots of you know lots of sacrifice and lots of tough nights and and and problems um but you know it's really how you deal with them and and you know work through the solution to say okay you know we're we're gonna figure this shit out um and the alternative is you don't and you say okay well I don't want to do this anymore and you go do something else but but I think that that's like it is really um you know I think there's something people having that resilience um and really being willing to not quit and just you know tough it out and know that you know um I mean that it's it's it's gonna get better um you know and and there's gonna be bumps in the road.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:00.400
So you gotta be a cockroach.
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:01.760
That's right.
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:12.079
Yeah absolutely absolutely well Terry I I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your journey I mean you should be incredibly proud of what you've built.
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:21.840
I mean it's it's no easy feat um to get to the stage that you've gotten to and um hats off to you for that and thank you again for sharing for sharing in everything.
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.679
I think there's a lot of people that listen that's aspire to get here or you know just want to get started and everything in between.
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:36.559
So thank you for coming on and giving your time this way and giving your your feedback and your your advice yeah no thank you I appreciate you having me awesome
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.759
Someone once told him Delta would never be a big business.
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:14.320
19 years later, he's running a$10 million operation across three markets and is the largest franchisee in the entire network by almost double.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:21.120
No playbook, no shortcuts, just nine acquisitions and two decades of proving everyone wrong.
00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.239
This is Terry Walkerly on the exit plan.
00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.839
Welcome back to another episode of How I Franchise This.
00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:36.399
Today's guest was told by his business coach that Filta could maybe make him a living, but that he'd never build a big business doing it.
00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:42.640
Well, Terry's now at$10 million and the largest franchisee in the network by almost two times.
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.320
19 years with one brand and nine acquisitions.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:48.000
Terry, welcome to the show.
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:49.039
Pumped to have you on.
00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.880
What did you see that that coach didn't see way back in the day?
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:55.759
Well, thanks, Alex, for having me.
00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.600
I don't actually know.
00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:05.359
Uh it's it's interesting because I have these, um, I've had this conversation now a couple times.
00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:14.480
Um, we did we just uh in April, or we're in April and uh March, we just did had our first million dollar month.
00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.000
Um thank you.
00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:25.040
Um it's kind of surreal because it feels grandiose and weird uh that that happens.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.480
And you're like, should I really be celebrating that?
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:29.920
Is it a big milestone?
00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:30.719
Is it not?
00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.439
It it's weird, but it is a big milestone.
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:35.519
We've we've kind of said yes, it is.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:38.319
Um, and we made that happen.
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:47.359
Uh, we are um you know, forecasted it looks like we're gonna have another uh repeat in April, so it's pretty exciting about that.
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:48.079
Let's go.
00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:59.760
And so that that kind of prompted this whole thought that you know um when I was looking at Filta, is this gonna be a big business or can I make this a big business?
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:06.000
And and my my coach was not really saying like you can't do it, Terry.
00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:14.800
It was just more like the business, like this business model at the time, um maybe wasn't gonna get there.
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:30.240
And um, and so you know, I think the thing that I again, my my my process or the way that I thought about the business initially was I thought it was a really good idea.
00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:44.639
And um, and I thought that the you know, I I had some fits and starts because I I thought maybe I was really interested in getting at the oil because I wouldn't wanted that oil to be converted into biodiesel.
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.479
So that's kind of how I found it.
00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:49.840
And for the for the audience, quick, what does Filta do again?
00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:51.759
Sorry, I just realized we didn't cover that.
00:02:52.080 --> 00:03:04.479
Yeah, so uh yeah, so Filta um Filta provides um uh filtering and cleaning services to restaurants, uh food service operators.
00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:16.240
Uh, we do um fresh oil sales that you cook in, clean and maintain and filter that oil and the deep fryers uh so that the oil will last longer.
00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:22.400
Then we take the waste oil away, um, and then that waste oil gets sold into the market.
00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.080
Um, you know, for the most part, it's getting sold into the biodiesel fuel market.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:38.960
So there's people that are manufacturing feeds buying this as a feedstock, they they manufacture it, they make fuel, and then it gets blended into the into the diesel market.
00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:47.919
Um, and then we've we've recently um added a um filter like a uh deep cleaning service.
00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:54.000
So we do ceilings, walls, floors, um, deep cleaning of kitchen equipment.
00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:01.680
Um so pretty much everything in the back of the house uh in a restaurant or you do something with walk-in freezers too, right?
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:02.560
We do.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.000
We have um we have two other smaller products.
00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:21.439
So we have uh a it's a humidification type system um that goes into a walk-in freezer um and it takes moisture and and it helps eliminate mold um that grows in the walk-ins.
00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:26.959
Um keeps you know, a lot of times walk-ins will have moisture on the floor or around.
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:33.519
Um, so that helps uh eliminate that uh um those problems.
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.040
And then we do some drains.
00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.279
So we have a product that um goes into drains.
00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:45.439
You know, typically, I mean, everybody's been in a bar where you're sitting at the bar and you see your fruit fruit flies flying around.
00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.160
Um, those guys are pretty hard to keep get away.
00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:56.319
Uh so we have a product that that'll um go in and clean the drains and then helps uh keep those fruit flies at uh at bay.
00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:06.560
So um those are really the uh the core business is our um oil, selling oil, filtering, cleaning, deep friars, taking the waste away.
00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.560
Um and then those other products are kind of add-ons um uh that we work with.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:20.000
So and so you're saying you were looking for a business that you could get to the oil to sell, you know, essentially to make diesel, right?
00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:24.079
Like this is where like your interest initially sparked and that was yeah.
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.920
So, you know, prior to this, I I I spent 15 years.
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.360
Uh um, I owned a moving and storage business.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:38.959
And um that business uh we um closed in 2006.
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:45.199
Um was looking for something different to do uh and wasn't sure what that was.
00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.879
Um, but at the time they were running cars on vegetable oil.
00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:56.399
It's like people were converting cars and um uh diesel vehicles, and they were you know running on fuel.
00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:03.839
And I thought, oh, well, that's kind of interesting, and maybe I'll get into that business and um, you know, make fuel.
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:09.040
Uh and along the way, I found Filta.
00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:16.879
Um and so that was, you know, the uh Filta at the time was an you know really considered an emerging brand.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:20.560
They were that 2004 they came to the United States.
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.199
Um, it's a UK-based company.
00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:34.319
Uh, the founder had had additionally thought that um, you know, he partnered with a company that built this filtration machine, and they thought, well, we'll just sell this machine.
00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:53.120
And then he uh was at a uh a franchise conference and he met the other co-founder um that said, no, we should make this into a franchise, like sell it as a service, um, have this machine as our proprietary um idea.
00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.360
And uh that's how that that's how FilterGot was born.
00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:02.319
Um, and then they came to the states uh and started franchising.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.560
So we were we were uh 2007.
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:20.560
Um I came in uh and the the story is funny because again, had a coach, we talked about the business, we you know, we did some modeling and and looked at it, and he's like, Yeah, you know what'll be a decent, you'll make a little bit of money.
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.920
May not not likely to be a big business.
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:40.000
Um, because you know, again, we're looking at territory, we're you know, the um what who our customer base was, it was a it's a small sale, like a transaction-wise, it's a lot of transactions, small sale.
00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:46.160
Um, and the uh when I was looking at it, um, I was like, yeah, you know, I don't know.
00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:54.959
It fits my skill set, all the things that you know I had been doing my whole career, managing labor, looking at routes, logistics.
00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.279
Um, you know, it was considered a B2B sale.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.360
I mean, you're selling to restaurateurs, so you're not selling to an individual.
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:12.160
Um, and I kind of wanted to get away from that because we did a lot of uh uh local and and individual homeowners that we were selling to.
00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:16.000
We didn't do a ton of corporate work in our moving business.
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:31.759
Um, so there was a lot of things that kind of checked those boxes, and um so that was really what said, okay, I can do this, and and I I think I can make a decent living at it um and and grow it.
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:51.440
Um and the I think the final decision was, you know, I'm sitting and evaluating options, I'm having coffee at the coffee shop, reading the newspaper, um, and you know, I had always read the classifieds uh in in the moving business because that would tell you who's hiring.
00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:57.120
And then so you get leads and see, you know, companies that are hiring people or moving people in.
00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:04.399
And uh the business opportunities section in the in the paper, there was a filta franchisee for sale.
00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:06.799
And I was like, what in the heck?
00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:20.799
So I'm like, I was in Florida at the Discovery Day, and and they had told me that the territory that I live in, so our where I live in Cleveland, it was broken up into three territories.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:28.080
Um, and the west side, the western, northwestern part of the county was sold, and that's where I live.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.000
Um, and it was this guy.
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:35.039
So I pick up the phone, I call the number, and I'm like, hey, you know, I I was just in Florida, blah, blah, blah.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.960
You know, I thought you guys uh had been in the business for a while.
00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:45.600
He said, Well, no, we just bought it, we just opened like two months ago, and this is not what we signed up for.
00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:47.919
He said, So we gotta get out.
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.679
And I was like, Oh, really?
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:54.240
I said, Well, I was gonna buy the other territory, so let's talk.
00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:00.720
And uh ended up buying his business because I I was like, Well, that it seems like that's what it's supposed to be, right?
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:25.679
Um, he had a couple of accounts, and um uh so that's that was the start of it, and and I I just uh from there um you know, started uh I I spent the first six or eight months uh on the truck learning the business, um, doing the work, just so I understood what was going on and how it was.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:35.519
I had a handful of franchisees that I knew that were in the market, uh, or that were in, you know, there was Ohio actually was interesting.
00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.240
There was um three or four guys.
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:43.919
There was a guy in Dayton in in Columbus, uh and then there was a guy in in Kentucky.
00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:49.759
And these guys had been in for a little bit, so we kind of had a group of people that you know I could lean on.
00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:59.759
Um, and you know, just a another just kind of funny side note on this is it gonna be a big business or or different?
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:11.120
Um about a year or so into the business, and uh, you know, now I had hired a couple guys, I had a couple trucks on the road, and um I'm like, what in the hell did I do?
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:29.919
Like, like I'm doing like you know, ten thousand dollars a month, and I'm not making, you know, I'm I'm putting, I'm not taking a salary, I'm putting everything back into the business, and I'm out there trying not, you know, um educate customers on the service because there's like nobody ever nobody's doing this.
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:39.200
And so I'm calling around and and at the time, you know, Filta never they didn't really, you didn't know where everybody was at.
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:52.399
Like today, you know, they have a scoreboard, they rank, you know, so you know who your top um, who you're ranked against and the top, you know, 50 franchisees, and uh, but then you didn't have it.
00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:53.759
So I'm like, I gotta find out.
00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:55.120
So I just called everybody.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:02.799
Like I was calling people that I I had heard that had been in the system longer than me, and and um, and I was asking.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:08.159
And so I heard this guy in San Francisco, like he was the top guy at the time.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:22.080
And uh so I call him up on the phone, and his name was Julian Yates, and I'm like, hey Julian, I said, you know, I'm Terry, I've been in the business for about a year, and you know, I'm I'm really trying to figure out like, is this good revenue or bad?
00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:23.840
Like, am I where am I at?
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.840
Like, am I on track?
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:30.639
And uh, you know, again, I'm doing like 10 to 12 grand a month or something.
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:37.200
And uh he says, Oh, he says, Well, I'm only doing about eight grand a month.
00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.360
And at that point, I'm like, oh shit, what did I get?
00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.039
Brett was right, you know, what did I get myself into?
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:52.080
Um, so but you know, as time progressed, I mean, obviously things continued to to grow.
00:12:52.240 --> 00:13:00.399
Uh just kind of kept my head down and and um and you know, believed that it was gonna build.
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:24.559
Um and every van that I put on, every next person, and you know, those first probably five years were really, you know, hustling to um get customers, you know, develop the national brands that you know, Filta had had put in some agreements with some of the national food service vendors.
00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.559
And so we were able to have kind of a license to sell into these organizations.
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:54.320
Um, and you know, then you really even then it wasn't much scale, but it was, you know, you started to have, you know, four or five technicians, there were some sales coming in, um, starting to build some systems, and then we were talking um about uh selling fresh oil to the customers um in bulk.
00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:03.759
And so Philta and I worked on that system together and and built uh um a delivery system to to sell in bulk.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:16.720
Uh so you know, as first probably five, five to seven years really was a lot of like them figuring out, you know, what other things can we add on, what other services and products.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:29.039
Um I happened to be the guinea pig because I I you know we were moving along um and growing, and I raised my hand a lot to say, yeah, I'm I'm I'm in to try to figure this out.
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:44.720
Um and you know, one of the things that I I learned from that is um I actually I learned a couple things, but you know, one there is an advantage obviously to being um in the good graces of the franchise ore, right?
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:51.200
And having a good relationship, even though oftentimes you don't agree with everything that they're doing.
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:51.679
Yeah.
00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.559
Um, or you know, how it's going.
00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:15.519
Like it's you know, everybody complains about the royalty and you know, or what what the franchise ore is doing for you, but in the same token, there's there's a I think there's a real advantage to um to playing nice and and then also um uh working together.
00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:28.399
Um not that I got anything really from, you know, and I think it wasn't didn't even have any special favors, but I think that that long term has developed and and grown into a good relationship for us.
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:34.639
Um and then I was gonna say sorry, sorry, some something else you'd said earlier, too.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:35.440
I'm curious about.
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:41.600
So you you'd bought the territory rights to one location, and then out of the gate you do an acquisition, you're like, all right, I'm I'm doing this.
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:43.759
You've proceeded to do eight cents then.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.679
For those listening, you know, how do you go about doing something like that?
00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.480
I mean, at that point you're buying a few customers maybe in a truck.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:59.519
Do you value the business based on the hard assets of the vehicle, or is it on a multiple of revenue, or is each deal a little bit different?
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:08.399
Um, well, so today, now I I there is an easier, not an there's a little bit of a formula, I guess.
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:30.720
Um, you know, in but like then um it was it was significantly less expensive for me to buy his business than to go and buy the franchise or like I would have spent you know with franchise fee and all that, I may call it 180 grand or whatever, and I think I bought it for 50 or something like that.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:39.919
Yeah, I mean it was like I bought the truck and and his you know cut gave him a little bit of money for customers and you know he he wanted to get out.
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:55.919
Um the the second deal that I did was probably a few years, uh I want to say that that guy um I had bought the other all the then the remaining territories um in Cleveland, so Cuyoga County.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:01.440
So I bought that initial one, and then about a year later I bought the other three.
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.840
Um, so I had the whole county.
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:29.839
Um there was a gentleman that was then down south of us, um, it's about four about 30 minutes away from us, that had owned um a territory, and I had just I had been friendly with him uh for a few years, and then uh he got sick and you know wanted to call me up and and so we ended up buying his territory.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.559
And again, that we valued really pretty much on he had a van, he had some customer base.
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:48.960
I think I probably paid him um you know what what he was doing in annual or in um yeah in annual revenue, like one times revenue, I think, at that time.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:18:33.200
Now, today, um you know, most of the deals we look at, because it's again they're small, um they're not like our our our biggest deal um has been around six hundred thousand in revenue, uh so a handful of um you know a handful of uh vans and and technicians, um you know, so um and and those deals that been that you know you really can't look at like sellers discretionary earnings or at EBITDA or anything, because like most people don't have run very good financials.
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:42.400
Um so the way the way that I looked at them, uh all these deals has really been kind of like, you know, what can we do in the market?
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:46.480
What am I really willing to pay for it?
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:55.680
Um, and then recognizing like uh what needs to happen because almost every deal I've gone into, I've had to replace all the equipment.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:23.119
So like vans are you know, um b just because of the I think it's been the kind of the nature of this business where people just um are they're some people have come in and they they built a job for themselves, they add a few more vans, um, they you know then run equipment till it you know and the wheels fall off.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:27.920
And it doesn't have any value at that point because you're you know you're trying to sell that seat.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:34.720
So, you know, like you I look at a deal and say, you know, is this market where can we go with this?
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:44.160
Um they've all landed somewhere between 65% of revenue, um, is really kind of uh interesting.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.240
Like that's that's kind of been where it's at.
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:59.039
65 to 70 on the high end, around 75% of uh of revenue, which would be about three times EBITDA if you were looking or three times SDE, however you want to look at that.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:01.359
And is the math for you on that?
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:13.599
You're saying doing that versus starting over if you're replacing the equipment, especially, is it's really you want the customer list and the territory without you know 20, 30, 40k franchise fee or whatever you know it may be there.
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.599
And that is that the math on it for you?
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:16.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:25.039
I mean, and again, like there's there's value if you have technician, good technicians andor a supervisor or a manager.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:31.519
Um, like we we expanded into Buffalo last year, um, have a super manager there.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.880
Um, I mean, she's turned out to be a superstar.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.519
Um, and uh, you know, we had to replace all the equipment.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:49.759
Like we put put all new V all new vans in there and and um I think we put almost all new filtration equipment in there too.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:21:07.200
Um so you know, we made an investment on top of the um this the uh uh the purchase price, but we you know the we had we're walking in there with half a million dollars worth of revenue right off the bat.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:21.680
Um so you know, you you um it's that is uh you'd probably when I look at the math to to start, I mean like what you call a greenfield, right?
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:33.359
If go into a market, and we have that, like we so we have rights to go into Rochester, so that'll be a different, you know, we'll have to build it out, you know, we'll have to add all the new equipment, we'll have to hire all the people.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:47.759
By the time you look at that, you know, you're probably spending about half of what you would spend on that, um, you know, to uh um to buy it if it ha if it was running at, you know, couple hundred to half a million bucks.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:59.200
So um so it's you know, for us today, um the deals are w what what we are looking at is exactly like you said.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:13.680
I mean it's Customer list or and if there is some of uh service techs in the in there or some leadership potential or people that are in leadership, um, you know, that adds value.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:29.440
Um, and then, you know, the equipment, um, we look less at, you know, we're kind of less concerned about that that's where we're taking discount, is on if we're gonna be, you know, having to buy replace a bunch of vans.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:36.960
Um, and then also if they have um uh a depot already built out.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:49.759
So um, because like again, Buffalo was a location we had to we had to move and kind of re rebuild out the so we had we had a lot more expense there um than what we would have thought.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:55.119
But on the same token, um you know, that was a good deal.
00:22:55.359 --> 00:23:04.160
Um, you know, when we went into Pittsburgh, those are those were markets that were had I bought from two individual operators.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:09.200
Um they were running uh running the business themselves.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:20.160
Um, you know, it's a little challenging because, you know, again, they're they're like, hey, I'm making$150,000 a year, but you're doing all the work, right?
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.000
So if you're the one that does all the work, there's no value technically in the business.
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:35.440
So you have to kind of look at it and say, you know, what's it worth to me um to buy it and kind of get over the fact that I probably overpaid.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:36.640
Right.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:24:00.000
Because you're just, you know, it it it's I think that there's a huge advantage as a franchisee to buy uh from an existing franchisees um because they want to, they want, they they do want to work with somebody that they know and they trust or have a relationship with.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:16.000
Um, but they also just like anybody else that you're going out and buying something from, um, you know, uh overvalues or think it has you know much more value than it it's worth.
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:25.599
Um and you know, they want to um uh they want to kind of ride on your success.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:35.039
I'm like, well, yeah, just because I know I know that I can come in and you know triple this overnight, like doesn't mean that it's anything more.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.640
Yeah.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:43.599
So have there have there been deals your or opportunities within the filter system that you've turned down?
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.319
And if so, why did you turn them down?
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:53.119
Um there hasn't anything that I've there hasn't been anything that I've turned down.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:58.000
Um there's been a couple deals that have not transpired.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:12.480
Um I had a deal up in Michigan uh that the um we were at we were at the finish line and uh um he just decided that he won he was gonna keep it for a little longer.
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:26.960
Um and you know, there was I think we were priced fair, but there was, you know, he is he was trying to figure out how he was gonna come out from under some of the debt.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:35.440
And uh, you know, it's that um, you know, it's that walk away money that you have to decide on, right?
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:52.880
You say, okay, if I'm gonna sell the business, um and what what is it that I'm willing to walk away with uh in this sale and when you're looking at price, and you gotta obviously play into that factor that there's working capital and then there is your debt.
00:25:53.119 --> 00:26:01.839
So when you add all those in, and if your walk-away money is not enough, then you know, I mean, that's not my problem as the buyer.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:10.960
Um but the uh um I think that there's uh you know that's a challenge that people have.
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:32.000
Um I've had two deals, my I had a deal in in uh in Pittsburgh, the one deal in Pittsburgh, and a guy I bought in the um he was in his his location was actually in Akron, but he he covered a a territory um east of there.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:36.960
And uh um, you know, we had two fails on both.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:42.400
I mean we came back to the table, but initially we're like, you know, pretty far apart.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:51.599
And um, and it was really had to do with that understanding of like uh, you know, yeah, you got debt, you gotta pay that.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:04.480
And you like that you that's a real that's a real number that you know if you you gotta figure out it's either gonna come out of your proceeds or you know, or you gotta take it out of your checking account.
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.400
Like it's one of the two.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:23.839
Um so those are um those are probab those are the only two that that uh had and the Pittsburgh deal came around and and even the the Michigan deal, um I that'll come back around.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:24.799
I know it will.
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:46.079
Uh he and I have a good relationship and and um so you know I think that there's uh for us, you know, we we've the acquisitions since COVID really kind of became a um a part of our growth strategy.
00:27:46.319 --> 00:28:12.319
Um I wouldn't say that our our strategy is to, you know, uh is just to do acquisitions, because we we do have um a lot of uh available opportunity in um in our existing markets, so that our grant organic growth is still a a big part of uh what we're trying to to accomplish to grow the business.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:26.400
But um, you know, I think that the franchise or I think there's value for them to have, you know, um, I mean the 80-20 rule certainly plays a factor in Filta franchise.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:39.599
Um you know, that the majority of the revenues coming from uh the top 20% uh of the franchisees, and it's been that way since I started 19 years ago.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.759
Um, and I don't see that ever changing.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:29:38.160
Um even though they want to bring more people up, there there's it's just I I mean, there's a reason that that Pareto principle exists, and the uh um you know, so they want to make sure that, you know, I think they have a you know um every the franchise probably do get concerned about people that are you know a franchisee that gets too big or is um but in the same token, like, you know, we've been able to perform um and we're a good franchisee, like we we follow the rules, we we're compliant, we we support the system, we're you know, we're willing to help other franchisees, and I think all of that uh goodwill we've been building over the years.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:47.920
So um, you know, so provides opportunities uh for us today to say, hey, if there's something going on and you know we're paying attention.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:54.720
I'm not um we haven't really looked out really far outside of our contiguous markets.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:03.039
So, you know, we're now in Ohio, all of Ohio, um western Pennsylvania, um, and then kind of western New York.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:17.279
So everything's really pretty connected within, you know, um uh let's see, I want to say Buffalo's about three, yeah, everything's about three, the furthest about three and a half hours from our Cleveland location.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.680
Um we haven't got on an airplane yet to go anywhere.
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:24.240
Wow, that's nice.
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:29.680
Well, you you mentioned, you know, early on to you're just investing everything back into the business.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.720
I mean, really for the first eight or nine years you shared with me.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:42.640
And I'm curious, was your thought process there once you started to see, hey, there's this ability to keep you know doing greenfield and adding acquisition and growing.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:48.400
I'm gonna put every dollar back in, or what, what were you, I guess, thinking at the time of every dollar back in?
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.599
And was that an easy decision for you as you as you made it?
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.200
Um it I don't know that it was an easy decision.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:22.960
Some of it was like uh some of it was, you know, I mean, fortunately, my my uh uh my my wife is amazing and it's took care of us those those years, uh um you know, took care of the family and and uh um and got us going so so I had some ability to do that, um, to not have to pull a lot out of the business.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:31.200
But I think the biggest thing was really just thinking about if I'm gonna continue to grow this business, like I can't do it all by myself.
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:38.240
Like I I'm not I need to have, you know, and start to build that infrastructure in the business.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.759
So I've always been a proponent of firing ahead.
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.519
So really kind of looking at what do I need?
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:55.680
If I'm not the guy that's gonna be out talking to the customer and selling and on the street, then I probably need to have somebody selling and on the street.
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:16.480
Um, and you know, so there was a point that that became true where I'm like, I can't, you know, I can't continue to have my hands wrapped around operations and um and understanding the numbers and finance and and then be out there trying to prospect and sell every day.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:25.119
Um so you know, I kind of simultaneously brought in uh I promoted a technician to operations manager.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:29.759
Um, and then you know, I'd I'd started hiring salespeople.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:41.519
Um, and then I kind of you know acted as the um CFO, CEO, if you will, or you know, like I I kind of was hands-on all those things.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.480
Um and that that ops manager, um Ryan, uh, was with me for 10 years.
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.519
Um uh, you know, helped grow the business.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:03.359
Um, you know, and and it just was an example of, you know, that there's just a time as you continue to grow that the business outgrows people.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:08.799
And I think Ryan was ready to move on uh uh into something else as well.
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:16.319
Uh and the same's true with salespeople, like you know, you get some people that work and some people that don't, and and you gotta kind of manage that.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.920
Um, so we've really I've made those investments, even though it sometimes it was painful.
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.119
Like you're spending money on uh you know uh infrastructure.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:36.319
Um, you know, and uh as we've continued to grow, um, you know, now I have fairly senior leaders.
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:42.400
I mean, I have a I have a senior leadership team, and I have another layer of leaders in bel in between there.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:50.160
Um, and you know, uh that's because again, where we're going, you we need that.
00:33:50.480 --> 00:34:02.160
Um I can make a lot more money probably with you know uh having some less people and things wouldn't be moving quite as quickly as they do.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:12.559
Uh but um in the same token, like there's to to continue to scale and grow, like those investments have to be made.
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:18.559
Um, and you need to be thinking about it before you you're there, right?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:31.599
So, and you know, I mean anybody that's opened up a business book will tell you and has and actually read it, would tell you that like these are the things that you need to be paying attention to, right?
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:37.760
Find the people that uh that do the things that you don't want to do and then do them better.
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:45.599
Um and you know, so uh the that's what I've always continued to try to do.
00:34:45.760 --> 00:35:01.599
And um, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but um, and it's an investment, you know, it's not like it's not like I can't spend this or it's an expense, it's more, it's always an investment um in in those people.
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:10.559
Um and then we get better and you know, and then look at the next uh, you know, where the next next opportunity comes from.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.519
Yeah, and I think that's a a a good transition to uh the question I have for you.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.239
I think a lot of people, you know, listening want to get to this point.
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:27.840
You know, they want to be multi-territory operator that if it were up to them, the business might not need them day to day.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:38.079
They could travel more, they have more flexibility because they now have a team, they have a system in place, they've put in the hard work early on, and you're you know, you're you've done it and you're you're living that now if you want.
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:46.480
For those listening, what do you think they need to get right out of the gate or early on to even have a shot at making it this far?
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:51.760
Um I think there's I think there's a few things.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:58.400
Like um mindset is probably 90% of it, right?
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:04.400
There's that there's a decision to say, look, I'm uh this is what I want to do.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:19.760
And and frankly, there's nothing wrong with saying I'm gonna have a million-dollar business, I want to make a you know, 150, 200 grand, you know, and and you know, this thing's going, and I got some people here and and I don't mind doing a little bit of the work or doing this.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.039
Nothing wrong with that.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:41.440
Um and then there's the decision like I want to build this, um, I want to build a bigger business that I can, as you said, I want to be able to not have to be involved in the day-to-day, or I don't want to be doing this, or I, you know, and I want to be able to walk away and uh and have time off and and not be worried about the place burning down.
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:48.559
And um, and I think so there's a decision that has to be made and says, okay, you know, that this is what I want to do.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:55.920
I want to grow this thing, and um, and yet I don't want to be working in the day-to-day.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:58.320
So um, what does that mean?
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.559
What do I have to do to make that happen?
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.400
And for me, what I have to do is I have to invest that in people.
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:15.599
So, you know, I spend a lot of money in I have a um, I have a a COO um in my that runs the day-to-day, she runs the business.
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:21.440
Um, and you know, I have, I mean, I literally have two reports.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:27.679
I have her and I have an outsourced um FPA, you know, finance guy.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:34.079
So he handles all of our IT, and then he's he does all our of our uh financial reporting and planning.
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:46.320
Um and then I guess I have an outsourced accounting firm that um does all our bookkeeping and and accounting uh that I I kind of oversee.
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.039
So um, but that's it.
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:53.920
And then you know, we have 78 people and Melissa is in charge of the rest of them.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:58.960
I mean, ultimately I am, but like she's they don't all report to her.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:11.119
She has you know a handful of folks, but regionals um yeah, so but the but the thing is is that like again, that's a decision that I made when you think about how to go there.
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:26.880
So if you're in and I, you know, talking to somebody that is uh in the three to five million dollar range, you know, um business like our our next kind of level we have people that are three to you know three to five, three to seven.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.639
Um I think there's one guy that's probably close to seven.
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:49.440
Um and you know, they're still like the owners are still doing some part of that day to day, whether it's the sales component, whether it's the you know, that that ops component, um that are then have the reports, you know, those folks reporting to them.
00:38:49.679 --> 00:39:01.840
And if that's a the choice to then scale and grow is you have to make the choice, do you want to stay here, or do you want to make an investment for somebody to come in and take over these roles?
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.000
So now you can really kind of think about where you're gonna go next.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:23.039
Um, and where you're gonna go next can either be like, I'm just gonna go hang out, treat this as you know, an investment, or you know, I'm overseeing the business um and pulling out and it and that's working for me, or I want to continue to grow this.
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:30.159
So I really have to be thinking about the things that are required to to take this business to the next level.
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:41.440
Um, and so that's I think that's a that's a big difference uh where people get stuck is that you know, you're like, okay, well, what am I gonna do next?
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:43.599
Or where do I go next?
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:53.920
And I don't know that I can afford$150,000 or$200,000 for these extra bodies um when I can do the work.
00:39:54.079 --> 00:40:11.440
Like I can absolutely do what Melissa's doing, or um, you know, my regional supervisors, but then that prevents me and it prevent and it it's a bottleneck in the business because it doesn't allow the business to grow.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:19.199
Um and so I think that people have to like you have to one make that decision.
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:30.800
Um you have to make the decision to um to do that and say, you know, am I willing to make this investment?
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:34.000
Where do I fit in this criteria?
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.440
And then, you know, where can I go?
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:45.840
Because I I see the business now, like, you know, I mean, we're we've we've been growing pretty well.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:54.400
Uh, you know, we're we average about 18 to 20 percent a year, um that's where we've been since COVID.
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:57.199
And again, some of that is acquisitions.
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:02.639
Um, you know, our organic growth is about 10 and 10 or 11 percent.
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:22.880
Um, and so you know, we've had good growth, and um, you know, uh, but we've also made lots of infrastructure um and people additions that because as you grow and we've spread out, you have these extra layers, and we're still trying to figure that out and learn like what does that look like?
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:24.000
How does that work?
00:41:24.559 --> 00:42:02.079
Uh when you have you know, you have supervisors on the field in seven different locations, and then how do you manage this, you know, this whole group, and um who's in charge of that, and uh, and how you know bringing everybody together uh virtually um is something I think we've been good at because we've been virtual from day one, but it's also difficult as you continue to scale and have more people, um, because you really got to be focused on you know where you want to go and and how how you're gonna how you're gonna get there.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:03.119
Yeah.
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.480
Well, that's a good good segue into my last couple of questions.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:23.920
And these are it's kind of a segment we do towards the end where it's kind of quick hitters, couple sentence answers, and I think I might know the answer to this first one, but it's you know, what is what is one hire that's made it possible for you to leave for a month if you wanted to and nothing breaks.
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:32.800
I mean, that was our operations uh uh really but each time.
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:39.599
Uh so Ryan, there was a point um that we got to where you know um I do that.
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:44.800
I actually I leave for the month of July, so I'm I'm up to eight weeks now.
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:47.119
So there you go.
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:58.000
And uh um so and of course, you know, Melissa um is our COO, and uh she's in that role.
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.360
Like I I don't really need to be there.
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:07.920
So um, and I frankly I do, I mean, I I only I participate in a handful of meetings.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:29.519
Um I'm on a handful of calls uh with uh senior leadership team uh that has some supervisors and then uh executive leadership team, and then have a couple one-on-ones with with them, uh with Melissa and and uh and my um FPA guy.
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:34.639
But the uh um, you know, for the most part, like they're involved.
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:48.239
And that that is, I think, the that's the biggest um uh hire, at least for me personally, to be out and and be able to focus on the business and how to how to how to grow this.
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:55.360
Um you could also say that sales is a big component if if you want to grow too, because you need to have that.
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:17.760
But you know, the uh uh for me personally you know, having that right person that uh can really kind of act and and operate in the way that I was operating by having a sales team, by having an ops team and and managing them so I can focus on the higher level stuff.
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:18.400
Yeah.
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:21.760
Sounds like ops was really that that unlock at first.
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:27.920
And from there you chase the bottleneck and you figure out what other you know what the next next level or the next unlock is.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:46:12.880
My next question is you so you mentor ETA students at Case Western what do you think the biggest gap between what they think franchising is and what it actually is is um well so yeah a lot of people don't uh and especially at at um case we have a they have an award that they don't actually award franchise businesses so they have like an upstart and a weatherhead long-term business so they have this view that franchises aren't real businesses for whatever reason um but the um um you know people in ETA I think are coming around to the idea of um of franchises as a as a real opportunity um but what people do see is they're like hey you know you got this um kind of overlord or you have this you know like uh um this group that's you know telling you everything that you need to do and some of that is true like there's there is the truth to the like yeah you gotta follow the you gotta follow the rules or you gotta follow the and be compliant right but um it's not as uh it's not as restrictive even when I started like that was a concern for me um because you know I don't necessarily color well inside the lines um and and so the but in the same token like they put together this system and and Filta at the time when they were they're emerging so they still were trying to figure out what the heck they were doing.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:21.760
And so we you know it allowed for a lot of flexibility for me to to just do my thing and and grow and develop.
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:34.079
I think the the what I've talked to people about is you know the advantages are that there's it's it's maybe even less the franchise or and more the system.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:49.840
So um it allows for franchises allows for you uh to to just pick up the phone and call somebody and say ask them what's going on and how they do things because one you're not competing against each other.
00:46:50.079 --> 00:47:09.119
So there's no reason for me not to tell you what's going on in my world um and and you can learn so much from that um and it's also just a way to commiserate too like if you if you are having a problem like it's it's a good you know that there's there aren't other opportunities out there.
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:33.920
You go buy a manufacturing business from you know Jim who's 75 and has run this business for 50 years um and he's competing with all these other you know there's no you don't have that opportunity right you have to create your own peer network or you got to join other peer networks to to get kind of that uh ability to talk to people about how things are going.
00:47:34.079 --> 00:49:05.599
We're franchising um that I I think you know that's been one of the big um taken advantage of that a lot from day one you know like just calling people when even before due diligence I called a ton of people and then you know once I got in I was calling people and and you know I've I've had tried my hand a few times at creating some benchmarking groups and you know so I have a group of people that we talk to and but I that that's a that's a huge benefit um to the system and then some of it is you know like today now guys can come into this um or guys and gals can come into the system and you know it's not McDonald's you know that you do it exactly this way every time and you know but it is um you know the framework's there and you follow this framework um and you know we have some uh corporate business that you know gives you a a license to sell and you know you go out and do what you're supposed to do you're gonna get that business and and you can ramp up pretty quickly a lot quicker than when I started um and so I think that those are those are the advantages and you know um to be in this in a in a franchise system and the misconception is I think more that you know you're you're really only going to do what they tell you to do.
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:17.599
And um I think depending on the brand but I know at least for Filta you know there's been a lot more flexibility than you know I would I would think there's been in other brands.
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:18.800
Yep.
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:31.840
Well then my last question for you too before we uh we wrap up is what do you think one I guess what's one thing most new franchisees get wrong in the first year?
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.760
That's an interesting question.
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:47.360
What they get wrong um I don't think that people at least what I see in our system is um I don't think people have come in with enough working capital.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:50:45.119
I was I you know in and it was true for me um as we continue to expand um not really uh um you know when I I talk to people about uh you know the opportunity to to come into the network um you know I do talk about that like making sure you have enough extra cash and understand that there's gonna be this you know a ramp up period so I think there's like people don't really take into account you know if you're gonna spend 150 grand or whatever then I don't even know what the fee is let's but if it's that and then you probably need another 50 to 100 sitting and available to you to to um to get yourself going.
00:50:45.280 --> 00:51:05.440
And then the the second thing I think is um people I don't know that people really um think through what their skill set is um and and then are willing to rep willing to hire and make the investment in what is not their skill set.
00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:13.039
So I mean like initially when you're in this in in this business you're talking about operations and sales.
00:51:13.199 --> 00:53:44.079
I mean it and I would argue that filter is more of an operational business than it is a sales business even though it's a chicken and the egg kind of scenario um because you really got to do operations really well um and that will because of the nature of the industry you know there'll be a lot of referral and there'll be a lot of you know um uh opportunities to just come to you but you do need to be out there selling to grow the business and so if you're not a good salesperson then you you need to you need to figure out how to bring that person in or bring somebody in to get you some some business and understand how to manage them if you're strong in operations and the same is true on the other side if you're if you are a good salesperson um and you know you're um you're okay at ops or you know you understand how to manage people um then uh you know get that operations person and then lastly I don't think I think in every business um you know you're never gonna get away from people right but I think pe I think everybody underestimates how difficult it is to manage um and uh um coach and build a culture um in a team uh even if you've come out a corporate and you know I've never worked outside of working for myself so I you know I I'm sure that if you'd ran a team in a in a corporate environment you understand that but it's still different when now it's your dollar right and um trying to figure out how to bring in blue collar workers how to motivate them how to treat them right how to get them to do what they got to do and I think people underestimate how um uh how challenging that is um and and I think it continues to get more challenging so you have to um goes kind of back to that mindset right you say you can't sit here and say nobody wants to work because if you sit here and say nobody wants to work you're never gonna find anybody you know you have to actually believe that 100% which I do that there's people want to people are out there um and you know you got to create a great environment for them to be at and then uh support them and then then you find them.
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:51.199
So I think those are kind of the those are I mean and and that encompasses the whole business right that's people, sales and ops.
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:52.239
Yep.
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:56.960
I agree with you too often too often I get asked you know how do I do this?
00:53:57.039 --> 00:53:57.599
How do I do that?
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:07.280
And it's it's typically you know there's people that see problems instead of solutions and I feel like you have to be solution oriented to like anything you know we're not going to Mars or anything.
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:12.239
So what we're doing there's likely a solve for there's likely some sort of answer.
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:18.559
It might not be the best answer but there's an answer and there's options and as long as you have that attitude of I'm gonna go figure this problem out.
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:24.239
I'm gonna go work the problem nine times out of 10 you work the problem and you figure it out and you get there.
00:54:24.639 --> 00:55:57.760
But too often I think people think oh well there's this and there's that and I don't have enough people I don't have enough customers I don't have enough money how did you do that you had all this money you were lucky and it's just like oh you're just okay fine live live the rest of your life that way because I can't help you yeah and you know again I'm not a I I'm not a believer that everybody is cut out for this right I mean you know there's it's the it the opportunity is for everybody sure you but to your point you can't like um not everybody's cut out to be an entrepreneur or to own their own business um and because of that because there's there's there's a it's not easy and you know um the there's lots of you know lots of sacrifice and lots of tough nights and and and problems um but you know it's really how you deal with them and and you know work through the solution to say okay you know we're we're gonna figure this shit out um and the alternative is you don't and you say okay well I don't want to do this anymore and you go do something else but but I think that that's like it is really um you know I think there's something people having that resilience um and really being willing to not quit and just you know tough it out and know that you know um I mean that it's it's it's gonna get better um you know and and there's gonna be bumps in the road.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:00.400
So you gotta be a cockroach.
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:01.760
That's right.
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:12.079
Yeah absolutely absolutely well Terry I I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your journey I mean you should be incredibly proud of what you've built.
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:21.840
I mean it's it's no easy feat um to get to the stage that you've gotten to and um hats off to you for that and thank you again for sharing for sharing in everything.
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.679
I think there's a lot of people that listen that's aspire to get here or you know just want to get started and everything in between.
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:36.559
So thank you for coming on and giving your time this way and giving your your feedback and your your advice yeah no thank you I appreciate you having me awesome
