speaker-1: welcome to the Every Third Saturday podcast. I'm here with Eric as
speaker-2: as always.
speaker-1: always, and I'm Tom and Trey. Do you want to start off by introducing yourself?
speaker-0: Sure, Trey Lashcott. I started off in military, did 21 years in the military. I was an infantry officer and then went over to be a Green Beret. I retired in 21, I guess early 22. Moved here in 21, had a little bit of overlap there as I retired. Married three kids, 15, 13, 10, and now I'm fully immersed in the community. So I get to help out awesome organizations like yours, help out some other military nonprofits as well, work, dad coach, all those fun things I never really got to do while was in the service.
speaker-1: You're in the teenage years, so.
speaker-0: I'm deep in the teenage years.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-1: I do not envy you, my friend.
speaker-0: It's it's fun. It's it's fun to watch them progress and grow and get older, you know, my oldest was 10 when we moved out here and he's 15 now and and watch all all the the evolution of what it is to from being a little kid to growing into a teenager to now he's prepared to be an adult and getting ready to get kicked out of the house and Go to college and do what he's got to do
speaker-1: My dad used to say that kids are like boomerangs. The harder you throw them away, the faster they come back. And I've found that to be true.
speaker-0: It's a gentle toss. So that way it'd be like a frisbee. You gently toss it and then it hits the ground and it just stays out there.
speaker-1: So, so you you native Minnesotan?
speaker-0: No, Nashville, Tennessee is where I grew up. Wife is from Minnesota. She did 16 of my 21 years with me. OK, that was our deal. Yeah. Is it was time for us to move back here. And I old old stats now, I don't know where they are, but, you know, probably late teens. stats were about 89 percent divorce rate in my tribe and so we're the 11th percentile that stayed married. Nice. First marriage. got an excellent as a green bray you got to say that it's only it's only one marriage
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: and we've been lucky enough to stay together so
speaker-1: Beautiful. So I saw you went to the University of Tennessee. Okay.
speaker-0: I did. did. 96, 2000, uh, two of Peyton Manning's years, a national championship in there. It's three Pete by the girls basketball team. So some glorious years spent at the university tennis.
speaker-1: Things are fun on campus.
speaker-0: Uh, I remember about 50 % of it. So it was, it was fine. It was a lot of fun.
speaker-1: What did you study there?
speaker-0: Uh, I started off, uh, aeronautical engineering. That was way too hard. Uh, So then I quickly pivoted to accounting, which was also hard and a little bit miserable, but I stuck with that and then I figured if I'm gonna get out, accounting's not what I wanna do, so I picked up a second degree in finance and double majored there.
speaker-2: Nice.
speaker-1: Eric isn't accounting me.
speaker-2: I am currently an accounting major at Concordia, but looking at actuarial science now too.
speaker-1: I don't know what that means.
speaker-2: It's it's kind of like finance but with a little bit of accounting like making predictions about I mean finance does that too, but it's I don't know either really I have to learn more about it Sounds like a nice mix
speaker-0: Yeah, it's it takes a unique person to do accounting. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And because then it's not just accounting. Then you got to go for your CPA and then you either join a practice, you get a bill to practice much like a lawyer. So right. It's it's tough. And I was like, that's not a road I want to go down.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: how I look at it though is like all the ambiguity that we have in the military, like accounting has to make sense. Your columns have to match or you did something wrong. You can go back and find it. Or if they don't match, you have to go back and find what went wrong. And if you don't have the right answer, it's either somebody's doing something funny or, or your calculator broke. It
speaker-1: pretty black and white.
speaker-2: is.
speaker-0: Very. Assets, liabilities, gotta balance, Yeah.
speaker-2: That's right, assets equal liabilities and equity.
speaker-1: And so, did you know you were going to go in the service when you started college?
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, I had My my family is Navy predominantly So my grandfather's was a naval aviator in World War two flew Pacific Uncle was a seal I think UDT back then Vietnam era and then I had distant uncles cousins everything my dad was in air force for a years and they got out so we count that one as an anomaly but my my family was was vastly navy and so i had aimed for the naval academy uh... didn't get there And then I went to University of and they don't have a Navy ROTC and nobody was joining Air Force. Sorry for those Air Force listeners out there. So I said, let's see what the Army has. And I went over to one of the students and was like, hey, trying to join ROTC, you know, what's one of the toughest things you guys got? And I said, well, we have this Ranger Challenge team. I don't know what that is. Sounds you sound confident. So maybe I'll try that out and I just kind of I threw myself right into it right into Ranger challenge right onto that team and and then kind of I mean I just fell in love with the the pushing yourself to new limits It's almost like a little competition and and getting those little wins along the way Also just just being a part of a group of individuals who had to pass something tough because there's like little milestones along the way. Okay. Especially at Tennessee. We had a we have a organization called Military Order of Tennessee Rangers or motor for short. And yeah, I don't know if I'm mean it's just college. Right. So you can talk about whatever you want. Right. It's you go through a series of early warnings and it's just a lot of stress and Getting stressed and then you go up to the mountains in Gatlinburg and you get tested and I think my food going up There was 1 13th of a fry. How do I remember that because we had to split it 13 ways one fry Wow, then your Road marching for 12 14 15 miles, whatever that was and snow uphill both ways not a lie And if somebody dropped equipment, you picked up the equipment and that had to go and they dropped out. And you just went. And then that was kind of solidified it for me to say, once I got through that and completed it, it was like, I think this is for me. Pushing that limit, taking those next levels, being a part of that group who went through that elite stage, if you will, at that time in life. being a part of that group and I was like, yeah, let's just keep it rolling. And I'll stay in. Once I got into service, I was like, I'll stay in as long as I'm having fun. And I kept having fun. That's right.
speaker-1: So were you a good athlete as a kid?
speaker-0: No, I was I was fat and slow really oh I In fact, I was cleaning up the basement this weekend and I had found some pictures, you and because my kids had always asked Yeah, and I said, all right, me pick them up. So I had one it was a little kid Like I was at the beach or something and then as I was in the middle school was in a baseball uniform and I had gotten fat And then I had another one of when I was already in the service and I was cut up and, you know, lean again. And I was like, yeah, look at this arc of what your dad went through. And goes, look at his, well, you weren't fat when you were little. What happened? I was like, well, probably not enough, you know, discipline on what I ate and probably too many sodas. And when I got into ninth grade, I just mentally made that shift. I was like, I'm, this isn't going to happen. So I, no more sodas, no more bad food. I'd self-disciplined and then started working out. And then, and I also had a growth spurt. So I shut up and then leaned out all in like my ninth grade here.
speaker-1: So there was, even as a young man, there was a recognition that you wanted to be a better version of yourself.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, there was there was a kind of a deep seated drive that hey, I can I can I can be better and then and it doesn't come overnight, right? It's just do am I seeing something and it was the faith in keeping honest to the process and will it pay off? And you know, and back then, you know, we don't have social media. We didn't have any of this stuff. So we're, we're breaking out like muscle and fitness max. And then ripping out like a workout in there and going, Hey, let's just do this. And so you and your buddies are going in and working out and, know, pushing it and, and to see what you're made of and, you know, pushing each other, which is kind of the advice I give the kids now is like, if you're going to try to get in a gym and start lifting, go with a buddy. because you're gonna keep each other accountable.
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: If you just go by yourself, you're gonna fall short probably every time. You're gonna have those workouts where you don't push as hard. Whereas you do it with a buddy and you've got that extra person there to help push and drive you.
speaker-1: So right after graduation from college, you go into the Army?
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's just the way it works with ROTC, right, or Academy. You graduate, you get commissioned, you get your butter bar, and then you go off to your version of Officer Basic. So when I went, it was, I have a series in my career of first. I went in... the first class of what they call basic officer leadership course where they were trying to just take all the officers that come out and put them through a basic course before they went to their military occupational specialty or their MOS before they went to go learn to be a signal officer, infantry officer. So I got thrown into that very first class so there was no mix in branches, there was no mix in genders, you just... You just went to that one, did it, and it was evaluators the whole time. And then when you got done with that, you went over and did your infantry officer basic, which was oddly enough, a repeat of Pollock. So there's not, there's a lot of anger and why are we doing this again? And the class after us, they had, they mixed branches in the class after that, they had mixed genders and branches. And then that, that, that went on for, I think versions of it exist today, but you kind of just do that. just, bullet, and then for an infantry officer, it's a very deliberate pipeline. Is you
speaker-2: Right, so...
speaker-0: come in and did that extra bullet thing, I went to infantry officer basic. If you weren't airborne at the time, you were going to airborne school. And so you get thrown out of a plane five times. And then you went to Ranger school. And so then I did Ranger School. And when I was in Florida is when 9-11 happened. So I went through this pipeline and went in and the world was one way. And when I graduated, the world was completely different.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: Literally, I was in the swap phase in Florida and come out of that and I was like, wow. It is definitely different. There are checkpoints in airports now. It was wild.
speaker-1: Yeah, things change that day for sure. And it's always interesting when you look at like motivations, more so enlisted, I think, you know, getting access to the GI Bill and stuff like that. there's different reasons people go into the service. And so if we went in pre 9-11, it was like. It your motivation may not have been the same as the post 9-eleven Sure entrant and just wondering how your mind shifts from What you thought your career was going to look like to what it now was apparent was going to happen
speaker-0: It was no longer You know, I'm gonna practice and practice and never play in a game. It was well, I'm gonna get to play in the game Yeah, you know it
speaker-1: Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at.
speaker-0: was a hundred percent like it's real now, you know, in fact we were the day it happened You jump into Florida you do a little road march to get to your barracks you lay down your rocks and then you Take your boots and socks off and Doc's have to come by and check your feet because you're getting ready to go into swamp water So if you've already got bad feet or something's wrong They're gonna do a quick evaluation and determine if you can keep going so we're all sitting out in front of the barracks and There's a what we call the fallout van for all the people who failed they're sitting in the van getting ready to to take it to the airport before they go home and one kid pokes his head out the The wind down goes hey, I'm listening to the radio and they said a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center like it's a radio gag Yeah, it is what it is. Then he poked his head out again. It's like hey another plane hit the other building It was like it's definitely a radio And then Finally one of the instructors comes out because you're sitting there for a while. Maybe that's real Instructor comes out and says hey anybody's got any friends family in New York City come with us right now. That's real and You get a couple what we call bat boys or Ranger battalion guys sir and immediately a couple of them are like We're going to war we're out we quit And we're no it's like you're like in the last phase just suck it up. It's like you'll be able to join them And, you know, fast forward to come out, we put Constantine O'Wire around the thing. We go back to training and we finished training and we come back. I think like two or three of those bad boys actually did quit. Wow. To go to get, cause they did not want to miss the opportunity of getting back to their battalion and strapping up and then getting a combat jump in. Now that never happened, so it was an unwise decision, but I can respect it too. You you just want to get back. You want to be with the guys when if we do, yeah, they do launch.
speaker-1: And then you got a master's degree.
speaker-0: A pair of them, Yeah, you know, I went through the career. So I got in. My first duty station was actually Hawaii, which is not a bad duty station, by the way. And so I got out there. I had you got a certain timeline, a certain path as an officer, and you got to make some decisions pretty quick. So got a live platoon and it was an XO for a little bit and then had applied to go to Ranger regiment and got. You got to think of this as kind of being conditionally hired. So, you know, I was told, Hey, yep, you're accepted. You got your, your rope date. think they call it raspa now. Um, but it was a ranger officer preparation course, think. Um, and that conditional hire is, Hey, this is the battalion you're to go to, but you got to go pass rope first. And then you can go, well, at that same time that I got that letter, um, A mentor had told me, go try out for LURS, which is on the island. It's a long range reconnaissance detachment. You're the eyes and ears for the division commander or the two star. And I said, okay, I'll throw my name in the hat. So I went, interviewed for that and got the job. And so I opted out of rope, stayed with LURS because I knew the 25th was about to go to combat. And so I did that first time that we're gonna go to combat since Vietnam. Well, so I wanted to be on that deployment. I did 13 months down range, came back, the SF thing. A few years as SF team leader. And then about your tenure mark is where you go to grad school. And so for me, I got into a program. The university of kansas, socom fully funded it 20 individuals again a selection process Well, I guess my life's a series of selections. But you go through that many selection and it's like three letter agencies everything gets can kind of throw their name in a hat got picked up did that masters was too young to go back to the unit. So I I applied for a second master's program, through the united states army command and general staff college It's called the School of Advanced Military Studies. It nicknamed the Jedi Knight course. So it basically teaches you strategy and how to write strategy and operationalize it, how to do operational design. So two back to back, two most miserable years of my career because it was... first degree was about an average of 150 pages reading a night and the second one was about 120. Wow. Geez. Yeah, so two years of just reading and jamming the books and writing and yeah, it was brutal.
speaker-1: And so You know I was in the Marine Corps in the 90s I'd prefer blue, but
speaker-0: What's your favorite color crayon? Okay.
speaker-1: I'll eat a red But
speaker-2: But...
speaker-1: There was there was not a lot of Combat veterans and it was mainly leftovers from Vietnam. So they were like E8s and and and there was some some from the first Gulf War, but You know, we know that that one that was over quick. So, there was a mentality, where you didn't have a lot of combat experience leadership. I was wondering in the SF community or in your units, was, was that an obstacle you had to climb? Like who do you who do you really pull that experience from if everyone, if you've gone long enough without, I know that it was, I'm sure there was operations around the world and people, guys were doing stuff, but.
speaker-0: That first deployment I mean I Think nobody so when I was with Lurs and we went to 25th I'm trying to and You and I may be missing it, but I don't recall it our first company commander Because that was the XO there's only two officers in Lurs He had experience We were hoping he would get extended and go with us. didn't, they replaced him right before we had to go into deployment. So we had a new guy. He did not have any experience in combat. So I don't recall anybody having experience. So it was us going over there. And those days were different. As you've heard of like PDSS's, pre-deployment site
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: site surveys, you would go over the process. You go over for a week or two, you learn from the unit, you come back, you finalize your packing list, your training, whatever you need to do, do your final prep and then come back. Early days was not like that. Early days was myself, my supply sergeant flew over a month early. and we were with 10th Mountain Lurse at the time. I'd go on missions with them. I was learning from them. I was learning how to train. I was learning the Intel. I was literally learning all that. And then I would call back on the sat phone and be like, OK, guys, bring this, bring that. Don't bring that. Leave that home. We don't need it. So you're real time telling them how to pack. And then they're packing it over there, you know, or back on the island to get ready to ship. And the whole time I'm running ops and taking notes and doing all those things. So you're, you're learning on the fly. Sure. and it's just, yeah. So to your, answer your question is there wasn't a whole, there wasn't like really any experience combat wise for us to pull from. So we had built good training. We were all kind of synchronizing what we wanted to do. we got over there. was providing information and then when they hit the ground and 25th took over the CG set of command position, that all changed anyway. Hey, go this direction, do this. And I think we, we changed locations seven times, within that year in Afghanistan. So it was, hey, go up here and do this mission for a little while. Go up here and do this mission. Go over there and do that. And so it was very, very different. And then we got to some really cool stuff at the end.
speaker-1: And You know we We got a little waiting. I wouldn't say train with we trained adjacent to the seals a little bit and To be frank, they were assholes
speaker-0: cleaned up a lot out of seals.
speaker-1: And I mentioned that because the army we while we were never up to any kind of a Threshold where we could train with actual SF We did train with some Rangers and stuff like that and they were totally different totally different attitude and I'm wondering if you ever Over your course of your career if you had you know, whether it's JSAW commissions or whatever it was did you experience that kind of difference within say tier one units or tier two units?
speaker-0: a thousand percent. Yeah, it's, we were fortunately enough at when I even I was in Lurs and was talking about some of those cool missions, we were re-task organized into what was then called Task Force Talon. The basic mission where IEDs were starting to bleed over into Afghanistan. We were given like a tier two ROE at the time. taught how to do crisis action planning through CAG or Delta. And then we've got three helicopters with three rotating crews, essentially. So we had an attack platform, we had a signal platform, and then we had a lift platform. And we got to go hunt the hunters. so that's essentially what we were built to do. So I got indoctrinated into that world early in my career. then we, so SEAL or Delta consummate professionals, awesome guys. They could have been a holes to us. They came in, they trained us. They were awesome. They truly were. And as I've gone throughout my career, I would say that's pretty consistent throughout my career and working with them. We got pulled right into, unfortunately, a first group team had taken an IED in Assadabad and that team was pretty much decimated. So we did a couple test runs with our unit, Task Force Talon. it proved successful. So we got pulled over and put into that spot where that ODA was and an ABAD. And so that was that was a unique experience just because you felt what it was like to kind of be on the verge of being a Green Beret for a little bit. I was like, this is a world I like. And so I would say as I go through it, ODAs depends on the guys on the team. You get really good ones, you get really bad ones. You get, you know, but I would say on the whole and for the most part.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: Of I'm a little bit biased, but I think we're pretty professional. a little bit more mature in our band level, because we bring guys in later in life. Seals, we'll bring them right off the street or right out of college for the officers. Obviously they've got to get through the pipeline. There's probably a maturity level issue there. Physical fitness, I would say probably Seals on average are more physically fit. But there's definitely a maturity aspect there. And so they get in trouble a lot, especially downrange. And to your point, they could be a-holes. And there's an arrogance about it. There's probably an arrogance with all the youth.
speaker-1: As there has to be to go out the tip of the spear like.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think there has to be Marsok was one of the ones that was I was Truly kind of impressed with over the years, you know, they were modeled after us mean literally as I went to lassoon they had pulled off our pipeline and their their Operations guy had their pipeline pasted on his cubicle and you know, they built a new cool building I don't know you ever get a chance to go see it, but it's really awesome They K bars for handles. it's kind of cool. That's cool. It is kind of cool. They built a really good model and made some improvements on what we had. And then downrange, mean, they're built to take over the foreign internal defense or FID missions, the UW, unconventional warfare type operations too. So they're built to kind of help augment that. And it's not like, think of it like a nonprofit. There's so much work out there to do. that are they competition? I guess it's to a certain extent, but not really because there's so much work that we can't fill all the requirements on the globe. We just can't do it. I mean, we're turning down missions and operations all the time. And so they came in and they were truly impressive as they got organized and designed and matured over the years.
speaker-2: Yeah, because when did they even come back? Because our our the Marine Corps elite, right, was recon for the longest time. When did Marsok get stood back up? I don't even think I remember.
speaker-0: I was visiting the schoolhouse, given lessons learned probably 2010. So I want to say maybe eight or seven is when they first started getting the funding and started, I would say probably right around then.
speaker-2: Okay, so still before I went in, mean, you guys are older core than I am. But that's, think, one of the biggest, it's a stark contrast. You're talking about not having really any combat experience. I felt almost bulletproof going into Afghanistan because my seniors had just rotated out, right? They had just come back from a deployment when I showed up. to my first unit and then we were deployed again six months later. So it's really interesting to hear your guys' take on it because I was in a totally different world when I was in deploying.
speaker-0: There's good and there's bad to that, right? Because if you're doing multiple deployments, there's a huge risk there that you get complacent.
speaker-2: For sure.
speaker-0: or that you compare your deployment going in to what you just went through. And I had to remind the guys, as we get subsequent deployments, once I got into SF, I was like, hey, I understand that some of the players might be the same, some of the terrain's gonna look a little bit the same, but there's one major factor that changes and it's time.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: And so how things interact, shape of
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: that, how the enemy's relating to other forces, not just us, all that dynamic's changing. So if we've been gone for like half a year or a year, understand that we should come back in our pre-trained up, should be methodical. And we should really not hand wave some of this stuff and Intel development and how things are done or techniques used. Like we've got to dig into it a little bit. And fortunately, and I think that's where that maturity level comes in. So, you know, I've been, was really, really fortunate to have some really awesome teams when I was in SF and be a part of those teams. And those guys are really mature that I worked with and they would put their heart and souls into preparation and really took. you know, kind of onus to the fact that you can't just make shortcuts because it's a huge risk. our number one goal is getting everybody back. Right. Right. So it you didn't want to take that risk, not for yourself, not for your family, not for for the guys around you. So I was fortunate enough. And I think when you when you don't have that level of maturity on the team, you would you just like, hey, man, we've done this before.
speaker-2: Yeah, which is really good. I mean, I hate to say it, but that's really what it felt like. You know, now that you explain it that way, you know, they were like, we've been here, done that. think looking back, you can see a lot of corners that were cut, especially sweeping, right? With, you know, hey, we've been here, we've done this. Like they don't put IDs here. We're not going to sweep that. Like.
speaker-0: And who's to say they can't come in and put IEDs? And a new type of IED. And you have to go through your checks and make sure you're methodical. And it sucks, right? PCC's, PSA's. You
speaker-2: yeah. Yeah, it's like, you got what you need? Good, okay.
speaker-0: get out of the vehicle, you're checking around, you're checking your steps. Yeah, it's slow, it's methodical. It sometimes puts you in harm's way when you're doing that. Because somebody has a chance to draw a beat on you. Yeah, you do it though. You got to.
speaker-1: And so I grew up in New York as a Catholic. And so if you're a Catholic and grew up in New York, you are a Notre Dame fan. And
speaker-0: I heard.
speaker-1: so I love Notre Dame. And so you were a professor at Notre Dame. That is awesome.
speaker-0: Yes It was it was a great way to end my career it was I had And honestly, I have I have done everything that I've wanted to do in my career except for one job. was a general's aide for about a year, which I did not want. I did end up getting fired from it because I was not a good aide because I didn't want it, but I was taken care of and actually got a specialty battalion and had awesome fun with that job because I was in charge of all of our special schools.
speaker-2: Wow.
speaker-0: And so I had a battalion commander at the time, but I was what we call an X3 because I was filling the S3 role and the XO. We didn't have both.
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-0: So I got to, that was a really fun job. But to answer your question, Notre Dame, they, officers compete on a board just like we do for command. At least this is the army way of doing it.
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: And then they are our version of HR, right? We call HRC is they allow two special forces officers per per year to compete and then four on their alternate list. And so I got one of the or two slots. and I ended up having my alma mater Tennessee. but My kid at the time was I think he had 39 different allergies and one of those was If like the pollen I have this yellow crap that's coming off the trees right now It gets into his pores. He would itch real bad and he would Like so his knees and elbows would literally start bleeding and cracking so And now he's outgrown that we've gone through specialty care so he can he's you know, he can have peanuts now I can have eggs now he didn't used to be able to have that but we've gone some cool treatments to help him get through that. So I called command and it's like here's my situation our specialists told me don't go to Knoxville because it's the fourth highest city with pollen and you'll have to limit your outdoor activities and so said well he's playing football on the cross so that's gonna be hard. So we had to make a decision. And I was like, hey, I'm jammed up. I was like, I don't want to give away this opportunity. And my second school was close second with Notre Dame. Very close second. And they said, OK. You got it. And that conversation was on a Friday. And I had orders cut Monday. Wow. And I was like, lights out, this is awesome. And so we moved up to Notre Dame and stepped in and I was, sometimes just luck, right? And that's a lot of it happens to your career. I was, so they had just kind of recently opened up the ability for SF officers to go do these ROTC jobs. And on that first wave was an SF guy. And then that's who I was replacing at Notre Dame was another SF guy. And he was getting out and retiring and. There was a six month waiting period before you can come back in as a government service employee or GS employee. And
speaker-2: thing.
speaker-0: so I went through the process or rehired him back as my recruiting officer. And so he's sharing all the, this is what we couldn't do. This was the, of the roadblocks. This is a, it's okay. I'm gonna start knocking down walls. And then I got one clear goal. I'm going to be the number one program in the nation. And so we took it in several categories, but we didn't get the one overall one that I wanted. The guy there now, Kobe is awesome. And he finally got there. I think their third year in a row, they're number one. So, but they're
speaker-2: Bang. There.
speaker-0: crushing it right now. And it's good to see that university, but it was awesome being there to your point about being a Notre Dame fan. Kids were spoiled. All the sports, going lacrosse games, picking out lacrosse balls underneath the pine trees, going to football games. COVID ended up being a blessing for us because everybody else got kicked off campus, students, faculty got to go to the game.
speaker-1: Nice.
speaker-0: So we're 50 yard line sitting behind Clemson's bench when we upset number one team in the nation, Clemson, during COVID. And so it's just, in just the history of that campus. And for those of who've never been, put it on your bucket list, because there's something about when you walk onto that campus, like you just feel it. You can't see it.
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: Even on TV, it doesn't come out. But when you're there, it's pretty special place. Yeah. It is. So put it on your bucket.
speaker-1: Yeah, I've experienced that. It's a very cool place.
speaker-2: I'll have to I I felt the same way about Iowa State. You know, I went there for a while. And it's it's it's weird now to go into Concordia, smaller private school and it was like, oh, you're to the football game. Oh, yeah, I season tickets. I was like, you guys have no idea. Like you get to a big 10 or whatever. You get to a D1 school and just that energy is electric. What is the big 10? OK.
speaker-0: Is that like the number two?
speaker-2: All right. All right. OK. All right.
speaker-1: So
speaker-0: the top DSP.
speaker-1: the kids kids at Notre Dame It seems like it would be very intentional if they wanted to go in the military because they do have maybe more options than Say University of Minnesota even just because they went to Notre Dame but So was there an intention there or were they still spoiled perhaps that you had to kind of
speaker-0: Not at all. I mean you can't build a good program without good character from kids. So when we recruit, my recruiting is, I mean it's what we call the tier one kind of university band. So service academies, Ivy Leagues, know, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vandy. And so that's my, that's the recruiting band that I'm... all these kids are competing in. Kids, I mean, they're adults, right? Young adults. And so when they come in, I'm doing national scholarships too, so Culver Academy, which is a boarding school about an hour and a half south of Notre Dame, they would bus up their kids and I would program a whole day and I would go through interviews for a whole day. And I had the interim system, rank them, do all this other stuff. And I'd sit on the national board too at the end of the year and pick some of these kids out. So I knew the importance of it and I can spot character pretty well. One of the questions I would always kind of ask is especially if they went to like boarding schools or anything was you know Why did you decide to go to boarding school? I think I have only had out of all those I think I only get one answer where it was My parents forced me to go type situate everything else was self-driven. she's amazing. Yeah amazing like who is an eighth grader pulling up documentation off the internet and going I want to go to this boarding school. And I want to set myself up for getting into a good college and or doing this.
speaker-1: Not little Tom McKenna,
speaker-0: And these kids are running their own businesses. got nonprofits. They're doing, and like legit ones, not like lawn service. And it's amazing. Some of these kids that are out there. So you look at that character, what they're doing, the energy that they're putting in. And you kind of recruit in that same fashion too. And our model was very, very different. It was, you go to a state school and it was cheeks and seats type model. So you put as many people as you can in a seat and then it trits over time until you get to senior class and then you graduate. Ours is very different because we're a smaller program. was a retention rate had to be high and these kids are getting four year national scholarships. And so you, you want to make sure that's not wasted as well. And so. And you're trying to recruit to become the number one program in the nation, right? So there's a little bit of this person's got this this and this and I and we kind of have like a little formula going on that we we can pick out kids to as
speaker-2: long.
speaker-0: And then that SF guy I told you about that brought back on and he's my recruiting officer. So we would compare notes all the time What do you think about what? And the university is very, helpful. And that's the other thing I'll say is, is a quick math on Notre Dame, 20,000 applicants per year. Um, 7,000 meet Notre Dame standards. can only take two. How do you cut 5,000 kids? How do you cut 5,000 kids that meet your state? They got to stand out.
speaker-2: Right? Yeah.
speaker-0: And so I carved out a little piece of that pie and go, Hey, look, I'm going to make sure they meet your standards off that. But I need I need you to give me grace on like 40 because 40 is going to get me 25 if that makes sense. So I'm going to get 40 that I'm going to we're going to say get accepted and do the ROTC program only about 20 25. We're going to show up because they're going to they'll take the service academy because it's completely debt free. Right. They'll go to you know George for some reason Georgetown was high competition for us for a couple of years and then Princeton too. Just we had a weird competition. with those two schools.
speaker-2: Thank
speaker-0: But yeah, it's just, it's all about relationships. It's about, you know, building good programs. And I did make a joke that, and it's still a joke for those who are listening, my hardest thing was trying to turn nerds into warriors. they, at the end of day, it's just about adulting. They were all good kids. They came from good families. Mom and dad did a good job of putting good character into those kids and building that up over time. So by the time they got to Notre Dame, I didn't have any of the issues that other school does. Nothing. I mean, you got kids down in state schools that are selling drugs and have a drug ring or whatever the charges are, right? It goes far and wide. kids was just hey let's maybe take a break from studying so much let's find a balance in life and trying to teach them how to adult
speaker-1: Sure.
speaker-0: and so which wasn't hard because they were receptive and listening right
speaker-2: Do you think, you talk about turning nerds into warriors, because I was a recruiter for the Marine Corps, enlisted side obviously, do you think you, when you look to an applicant, you say, yeah, they'll do well in the Army, or yes, their Army material, they'll benefit the whole, or, because I'm thinking about me, these literal kids, right, they're 16, 17, 18 when they're talking to you. Questioning some of my some of my decisions about sending kids down to medicine put them in the core Do you feel like you kind of? could kind of train that into them or or out of them or Well, I guess where did that sit with you?
speaker-0: I think the first year was a bit of a question mark, but once I got through the first full year in cycle, I would say call it arrogance, call it what you want to, but I had confidence not only in me, but the cadre, right? And the seniors. Seniors play a huge part in training too. But once I built that confidence within that first year with the program itself, I had confidence that these individuals that we were recruiting were going to come in and we were going to, you know, they were going to come out the other side and they were going to be competent officers getting in front of people. there, and there were, there were quite a few that were question marks that complete introverts, a
speaker-2: Okay. Yeah.
speaker-0: little bit different. then You just as long as you have people that care like good cadre that care and had a great great Enlisted counterpart, I mean, that's what we do it in the army. We have an officer and then unless it's to help balance each other out, and that's critical and and He he was awesome he had a way of connecting with the students that I didn't and then But then I had different ways to look at things that he did And then we just, the whole intent was to build these, you know, young adults into future leaders when they step in front of their platoon, they can take charge. And yeah, there was a few that were question marks for sure. And then, but we just kept at it and kept going and kept pushing them. Like when they thought they had reached their ceiling, like, yeah, let's push a little harder. Let's
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: get them past their comfort.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: Some didn't need it. Some were like, yep, got it. Put a challenge in front of them and they crush it. Do it again, do it again. And those are the ones that you're gonna put in as a senior, you're gonna put as your battalion commander, your ops
speaker-2: Thanks,
speaker-0: officer, so you're gonna put into your major leadership positions. For sure.
speaker-1: So that was your last assignment.
speaker-0: That was it. hung up the spurs and said, here's the, gave it to the next generation and said, let's go.
speaker-1: So that's kind of a, maybe, well you tell me, is it a less jarring off-ramp than just being in your SF unit one day and not the next?
speaker-0: It's definitely an easier glide path. But when it's time to take off that uniform and everything for the last time, I thought I was pretty well prepared. And I guess to a certain extent I was. I mean moved here, I got a job right away. But that was a year worth of conversation. And that only really happened because COVID hit us while it was at Notre Dame. It allowed me the time to start reaching out and making conversation and figuring out like, what does it mean a network on the civilian world? And so, but when it came time, was different. Minnesota is a unique place. It is it's a you're New Yorker. So I mean Yeah,
speaker-1: transplant
speaker-0: so you understand this it's it's one of those ones where And I see it I kind of empathize with my wife a little bit like we're moving every few years and But I'm going to places where I know people like I'm gonna go to
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: this unit Hey, I know like, you know five or six people and we get along really well It's awesome and we're right back into it and And she may know him but not really but she's kind of off on her own, right? She's got kids and she's starting to meet neighbors and by the time we make real good friends It's year two or three and we got a move again
speaker-1: Right.
speaker-0: But here she she grew up in Minnesota. So now the roles are reversed. I'm coming here. I don't know a single soul besides family and then It and a few of her friends, but we're not really close, you know that I hadn't met from her childhood, but she gets to come right back into it and reconnect with old friends, do all that. And I'm kind of just, okay, well, I guess I'll go start a job and military things gone. this is awkward. All right, guess it's a little bit like that cartoon, the old Bugs Money cartoons where you got Fred and Ralph that pass each other as they're going into and out of work. And they just click the check and keep going. they're like, hello Ralph, hello Fred.
speaker-2: Religious matter.
speaker-0: And so it was a little bit like that. And so yeah, it wasn't fun. Over the years, one of pieces of advice I got going out was, don't be like a vet that sticks their head in the sand. Like getting, stay involved, do something. I immediately kind of threw my hat, name in the hat to help coach. That built a lot of our friendships and relationships over the years, being, being a head coach in lacrosse and then, uh, helping out coach with football and being on the football board. So I kind of my name in the hat and a few things, uh, you know, a USA, which is a, you know, association, United States army had, you know, got involved with that. Actually got, wanted told to pull into that one, but, uh, glad I was. And then I had a couple other things like you know a couple of nonprofits that are around I just kind of help out here and there you know ETS is one of those two where I'll come in and Once John's got his hooks in you I can't get rid of
speaker-2: You can.
speaker-0: them so And I come in and help out with the cohort once a quarter. You know, which is fine and it's this little taste that helped me stay connected and I also pick up a contract with the human performance company and I go every now and then I'll get pulled Once or twice a year, it's not very often. I'll get pulled to go be a lead where we bring in like specialists, like sleep, know, sleep, scientists, five time CrossFit champ for strength and conditioning, you know, Olympic level nutritionist, all these experts that get brought in and I'll go lead that for like a three letter agency in DC. And so I'll go do that for a day or two or three days at most. and then that, so little things like that. kept helped me stay in touch and helped me hold on to that little community and made that transition a little easier but it I mean and it's just again, have faith that you're gonna make friends and be a part of the community and do everything else. Because going back to the Minnesota is weird. I people around here are, they grew up with each other.
speaker-1: Right.
speaker-0: They're connected for like 30, 40, 50 years, multi-generation, and they have their set traditions and routines. And you just, you know.
speaker-2: just happened this weekend as the opener. Yeah.
speaker-0: the fifth take off for that and and because I didn't grow up here it's
speaker-2: .
speaker-0: like I'm not a part of those traditions or anything or get pulled in and certainly I've got some close friends here now but You're still on the outside. You're still an outsider. Whereas like if I settled in Tampa, it wouldn't, like I wouldn't blink an eye. I know probably 10 people down there right now and I'm jumping right back into old friends and we're gonna go doing what we're gonna go do. So
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: yeah, it's just different.
speaker-1: So and then and you went on to Cargill
speaker-0: I did.
speaker-1: And was that well Cargill is a sponsor of ours and They've been great to us and so but it's not Cargill specific question. The question would be Was the corporate environment difficult to adapt to?
speaker-0: It is different. I think I was very open-minded in going into a world where I didn't know anything and I'm just gonna learn. Like I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna see if I can survive outside the military. So that was my first question, right? Can I even make it? think it's, mean, correct me if I'm but. 60, 70 percent of veterans don't make it past the first year on their first job.
speaker-2: I didn't.
speaker-0: It's something, yeah, it's something crazy. It's a crazy stat like that. And not that I was looking to beat the stat or anything, but I was just like, I just wanted to get in and learn and had some... first bosses at Cargill that took that time to, well, I I really take the time. I was in an accelerator program, so they took time away from me, but they put pressure on me to see if I could make it, and they had faith in me that I could endure and handle the stress. Was that the best at it? No, but I was coming in with... you know, late to the game where other people had 10, 15 years experience, maybe longer, learning how to do some of stuff I was doing. so I just had leadership under my belt and management under my belt and I had a high level of common sense that I can apply, which actually goes farther than I thought it did, a lot further. But it's... So yeah, was long answer to your question. It was more difficult than I thought. Was it miserable like other people say? No, but I think that's very dependent on the company and culture you go into. It
speaker-1: Sure, yes.
speaker-0: is. And I was deliberate about asking the question of... What is culture like at your company? When I was talking to companies before I committed to Cargill. So
speaker-2: you
speaker-0: I was getting a read on the culture more than I was the job or the position itself. And there was a couple of companies that stood out, Cargill being one of those. it just happened that the timing for the position opened up a little sooner than maybe some other companies were willing to open up. And so I took that.
speaker-1: Cool. So what does it look like for you today? What does the next five years, 10 years look like?
speaker-0: It's a great question.
speaker-1: Sometimes that's not even a fair question.
speaker-0: If I had a crystal ball man, I would I would literally just go play at the stock market and be a millionaire right now and that would and that would it and then I would Give money to the organizations that I really want to give to you like, you know ETS but it's because you guys do some great stuff here for veterans, but it I Don't know I am Out of Cargill I'm having conversations with a couple different companies now and hoping to wrap those up within the next couple weeks and get some direction on what I'm going to do. it's really, I think for me, I've kind of, I deliberately shifted away from the defense industry. But after not being there, and then getting and having some of these conversations with some of the companies I'm talking to now, I've realized that maybe I missed it more than I thought. And then stuff comes back to me really, really fast too, whenever we're conversations and I'm like, I actually do know some stuff. So I'm kind of excited about that. whatever I get, I'm hoping to do that for the next 10 years or so until the kids get out. and they go to college, maybe longer, if I really like it. Still helping out with nonprofits, which I really like. AUSA, I'll take over as president this summer.
speaker-1: Nice.
speaker-0: And so I'll do that for about two years. And it's it's a volunteer position, but it's fun. And one of my goals there is to kind of build it back up. We got that Norwegian Foot March, which we've talked about before in the past, and that's a good one. And that's one of the ones that we're intentionally going to really open up the doors next year to have nonprofits like ETS come out there and set up a booth and talk to soldiers. I mean, we're close to 1,000 participants at this thing. And
speaker-1: That's nice.
speaker-0: so plus family and friends on top of that. So it's really to connect the community to the military a little bit better. I really want to organizations like this and into that as well. So that's kind of that as far as coaching for the kids. The oldest was the lacrosse and so I'm retired from that. The middle one still got one more year in middle school. So if he goes back to football, I'll. do one more year there. My youngest decided she was gonna jump into lacrosse as a 10 year old. So then I got pulled out of retirement in coaching her. But it's like learning a whole new sport. Girls and men's lacrosses are totally, they're totally two different sports. So I've had to relearn a lot there. I've been coaching this
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: season. So I'll still do a little bit of that, but that's my way of staying connected with the kids too.
speaker-1: Yeah. Well, Eric, you got it.
speaker-2: I don't, I don't, I learned a lot Trey. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks a lot man.
speaker-0: Yeah, thank you for having me. hope it didn't bore you. No.
speaker-2: I don't know. I'm just sitting over here still soaking some of it.
speaker-1: Great conversation and you know, thank you for all you've done. That's it's It's worthy of thanks to go into the military but to take those steps to go into those those units where you you know where you're end up and to do that voluntarily and to do that intentionally is is Take some take some balls
speaker-0: It was all selfish. 100%. I wanted to be in those units, right? Because I knew what they were. And you want to push yourself and see if you are the best. And see if you can make that selection. If you can make that next ridge line. And so it was, I got more out of it than it probably got out of me.
speaker-2: There you go.
speaker-1: Well, like Eric said, thank you. thank you for what you do for the veterans that go through water's return. You're always well received and they really, you you come in with all the experience without the arrogance and that's not always easy to do. So we appreciate what you do for us very much.
speaker-0: I threatened them all to give me five stars at the end. That's my secret.
speaker-1: You
speaker-0: No, it truly has been an honor. Every time I come here and I talk to the veterans and sit down with them for a couple hours, sometimes I go over. Sorry. I feel better leaving. Hopefully I helped them. I think maybe I do sometimes. Think you do. But I definitely feel better when I leave knowing that maybe some of them, their eyes got opened a little bit and they're heading down a better path.
speaker-2: Yep.
speaker-1: deal well thank you and yeah that's all we got
speaker-2: as always.
speaker-1: always, and I'm Tom and Trey. Do you want to start off by introducing yourself?
speaker-0: Sure, Trey Lashcott. I started off in military, did 21 years in the military. I was an infantry officer and then went over to be a Green Beret. I retired in 21, I guess early 22. Moved here in 21, had a little bit of overlap there as I retired. Married three kids, 15, 13, 10, and now I'm fully immersed in the community. So I get to help out awesome organizations like yours, help out some other military nonprofits as well, work, dad coach, all those fun things I never really got to do while was in the service.
speaker-1: You're in the teenage years, so.
speaker-0: I'm deep in the teenage years.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-1: I do not envy you, my friend.
speaker-0: It's it's fun. It's it's fun to watch them progress and grow and get older, you know, my oldest was 10 when we moved out here and he's 15 now and and watch all all the the evolution of what it is to from being a little kid to growing into a teenager to now he's prepared to be an adult and getting ready to get kicked out of the house and Go to college and do what he's got to do
speaker-1: My dad used to say that kids are like boomerangs. The harder you throw them away, the faster they come back. And I've found that to be true.
speaker-0: It's a gentle toss. So that way it'd be like a frisbee. You gently toss it and then it hits the ground and it just stays out there.
speaker-1: So, so you you native Minnesotan?
speaker-0: No, Nashville, Tennessee is where I grew up. Wife is from Minnesota. She did 16 of my 21 years with me. OK, that was our deal. Yeah. Is it was time for us to move back here. And I old old stats now, I don't know where they are, but, you know, probably late teens. stats were about 89 percent divorce rate in my tribe and so we're the 11th percentile that stayed married. Nice. First marriage. got an excellent as a green bray you got to say that it's only it's only one marriage
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: and we've been lucky enough to stay together so
speaker-1: Beautiful. So I saw you went to the University of Tennessee. Okay.
speaker-0: I did. did. 96, 2000, uh, two of Peyton Manning's years, a national championship in there. It's three Pete by the girls basketball team. So some glorious years spent at the university tennis.
speaker-1: Things are fun on campus.
speaker-0: Uh, I remember about 50 % of it. So it was, it was fine. It was a lot of fun.
speaker-1: What did you study there?
speaker-0: Uh, I started off, uh, aeronautical engineering. That was way too hard. Uh, So then I quickly pivoted to accounting, which was also hard and a little bit miserable, but I stuck with that and then I figured if I'm gonna get out, accounting's not what I wanna do, so I picked up a second degree in finance and double majored there.
speaker-2: Nice.
speaker-1: Eric isn't accounting me.
speaker-2: I am currently an accounting major at Concordia, but looking at actuarial science now too.
speaker-1: I don't know what that means.
speaker-2: It's it's kind of like finance but with a little bit of accounting like making predictions about I mean finance does that too, but it's I don't know either really I have to learn more about it Sounds like a nice mix
speaker-0: Yeah, it's it takes a unique person to do accounting. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And because then it's not just accounting. Then you got to go for your CPA and then you either join a practice, you get a bill to practice much like a lawyer. So right. It's it's tough. And I was like, that's not a road I want to go down.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: how I look at it though is like all the ambiguity that we have in the military, like accounting has to make sense. Your columns have to match or you did something wrong. You can go back and find it. Or if they don't match, you have to go back and find what went wrong. And if you don't have the right answer, it's either somebody's doing something funny or, or your calculator broke. It
speaker-1: pretty black and white.
speaker-2: is.
speaker-0: Very. Assets, liabilities, gotta balance, Yeah.
speaker-2: That's right, assets equal liabilities and equity.
speaker-1: And so, did you know you were going to go in the service when you started college?
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, I had My my family is Navy predominantly So my grandfather's was a naval aviator in World War two flew Pacific Uncle was a seal I think UDT back then Vietnam era and then I had distant uncles cousins everything my dad was in air force for a years and they got out so we count that one as an anomaly but my my family was was vastly navy and so i had aimed for the naval academy uh... didn't get there And then I went to University of and they don't have a Navy ROTC and nobody was joining Air Force. Sorry for those Air Force listeners out there. So I said, let's see what the Army has. And I went over to one of the students and was like, hey, trying to join ROTC, you know, what's one of the toughest things you guys got? And I said, well, we have this Ranger Challenge team. I don't know what that is. Sounds you sound confident. So maybe I'll try that out and I just kind of I threw myself right into it right into Ranger challenge right onto that team and and then kind of I mean I just fell in love with the the pushing yourself to new limits It's almost like a little competition and and getting those little wins along the way Also just just being a part of a group of individuals who had to pass something tough because there's like little milestones along the way. Okay. Especially at Tennessee. We had a we have a organization called Military Order of Tennessee Rangers or motor for short. And yeah, I don't know if I'm mean it's just college. Right. So you can talk about whatever you want. Right. It's you go through a series of early warnings and it's just a lot of stress and Getting stressed and then you go up to the mountains in Gatlinburg and you get tested and I think my food going up There was 1 13th of a fry. How do I remember that because we had to split it 13 ways one fry Wow, then your Road marching for 12 14 15 miles, whatever that was and snow uphill both ways not a lie And if somebody dropped equipment, you picked up the equipment and that had to go and they dropped out. And you just went. And then that was kind of solidified it for me to say, once I got through that and completed it, it was like, I think this is for me. Pushing that limit, taking those next levels, being a part of that group who went through that elite stage, if you will, at that time in life. being a part of that group and I was like, yeah, let's just keep it rolling. And I'll stay in. Once I got into service, I was like, I'll stay in as long as I'm having fun. And I kept having fun. That's right.
speaker-1: So were you a good athlete as a kid?
speaker-0: No, I was I was fat and slow really oh I In fact, I was cleaning up the basement this weekend and I had found some pictures, you and because my kids had always asked Yeah, and I said, all right, me pick them up. So I had one it was a little kid Like I was at the beach or something and then as I was in the middle school was in a baseball uniform and I had gotten fat And then I had another one of when I was already in the service and I was cut up and, you know, lean again. And I was like, yeah, look at this arc of what your dad went through. And goes, look at his, well, you weren't fat when you were little. What happened? I was like, well, probably not enough, you know, discipline on what I ate and probably too many sodas. And when I got into ninth grade, I just mentally made that shift. I was like, I'm, this isn't going to happen. So I, no more sodas, no more bad food. I'd self-disciplined and then started working out. And then, and I also had a growth spurt. So I shut up and then leaned out all in like my ninth grade here.
speaker-1: So there was, even as a young man, there was a recognition that you wanted to be a better version of yourself.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, there was there was a kind of a deep seated drive that hey, I can I can I can be better and then and it doesn't come overnight, right? It's just do am I seeing something and it was the faith in keeping honest to the process and will it pay off? And you know, and back then, you know, we don't have social media. We didn't have any of this stuff. So we're, we're breaking out like muscle and fitness max. And then ripping out like a workout in there and going, Hey, let's just do this. And so you and your buddies are going in and working out and, know, pushing it and, and to see what you're made of and, you know, pushing each other, which is kind of the advice I give the kids now is like, if you're going to try to get in a gym and start lifting, go with a buddy. because you're gonna keep each other accountable.
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: If you just go by yourself, you're gonna fall short probably every time. You're gonna have those workouts where you don't push as hard. Whereas you do it with a buddy and you've got that extra person there to help push and drive you.
speaker-1: So right after graduation from college, you go into the Army?
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's just the way it works with ROTC, right, or Academy. You graduate, you get commissioned, you get your butter bar, and then you go off to your version of Officer Basic. So when I went, it was, I have a series in my career of first. I went in... the first class of what they call basic officer leadership course where they were trying to just take all the officers that come out and put them through a basic course before they went to their military occupational specialty or their MOS before they went to go learn to be a signal officer, infantry officer. So I got thrown into that very first class so there was no mix in branches, there was no mix in genders, you just... You just went to that one, did it, and it was evaluators the whole time. And then when you got done with that, you went over and did your infantry officer basic, which was oddly enough, a repeat of Pollock. So there's not, there's a lot of anger and why are we doing this again? And the class after us, they had, they mixed branches in the class after that, they had mixed genders and branches. And then that, that, that went on for, I think versions of it exist today, but you kind of just do that. just, bullet, and then for an infantry officer, it's a very deliberate pipeline. Is you
speaker-2: Right, so...
speaker-0: come in and did that extra bullet thing, I went to infantry officer basic. If you weren't airborne at the time, you were going to airborne school. And so you get thrown out of a plane five times. And then you went to Ranger school. And so then I did Ranger School. And when I was in Florida is when 9-11 happened. So I went through this pipeline and went in and the world was one way. And when I graduated, the world was completely different.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: Literally, I was in the swap phase in Florida and come out of that and I was like, wow. It is definitely different. There are checkpoints in airports now. It was wild.
speaker-1: Yeah, things change that day for sure. And it's always interesting when you look at like motivations, more so enlisted, I think, you know, getting access to the GI Bill and stuff like that. there's different reasons people go into the service. And so if we went in pre 9-11, it was like. It your motivation may not have been the same as the post 9-eleven Sure entrant and just wondering how your mind shifts from What you thought your career was going to look like to what it now was apparent was going to happen
speaker-0: It was no longer You know, I'm gonna practice and practice and never play in a game. It was well, I'm gonna get to play in the game Yeah, you know it
speaker-1: Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at.
speaker-0: was a hundred percent like it's real now, you know, in fact we were the day it happened You jump into Florida you do a little road march to get to your barracks you lay down your rocks and then you Take your boots and socks off and Doc's have to come by and check your feet because you're getting ready to go into swamp water So if you've already got bad feet or something's wrong They're gonna do a quick evaluation and determine if you can keep going so we're all sitting out in front of the barracks and There's a what we call the fallout van for all the people who failed they're sitting in the van getting ready to to take it to the airport before they go home and one kid pokes his head out the The wind down goes hey, I'm listening to the radio and they said a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center like it's a radio gag Yeah, it is what it is. Then he poked his head out again. It's like hey another plane hit the other building It was like it's definitely a radio And then Finally one of the instructors comes out because you're sitting there for a while. Maybe that's real Instructor comes out and says hey anybody's got any friends family in New York City come with us right now. That's real and You get a couple what we call bat boys or Ranger battalion guys sir and immediately a couple of them are like We're going to war we're out we quit And we're no it's like you're like in the last phase just suck it up. It's like you'll be able to join them And, you know, fast forward to come out, we put Constantine O'Wire around the thing. We go back to training and we finished training and we come back. I think like two or three of those bad boys actually did quit. Wow. To go to get, cause they did not want to miss the opportunity of getting back to their battalion and strapping up and then getting a combat jump in. Now that never happened, so it was an unwise decision, but I can respect it too. You you just want to get back. You want to be with the guys when if we do, yeah, they do launch.
speaker-1: And then you got a master's degree.
speaker-0: A pair of them, Yeah, you know, I went through the career. So I got in. My first duty station was actually Hawaii, which is not a bad duty station, by the way. And so I got out there. I had you got a certain timeline, a certain path as an officer, and you got to make some decisions pretty quick. So got a live platoon and it was an XO for a little bit and then had applied to go to Ranger regiment and got. You got to think of this as kind of being conditionally hired. So, you know, I was told, Hey, yep, you're accepted. You got your, your rope date. think they call it raspa now. Um, but it was a ranger officer preparation course, think. Um, and that conditional hire is, Hey, this is the battalion you're to go to, but you got to go pass rope first. And then you can go, well, at that same time that I got that letter, um, A mentor had told me, go try out for LURS, which is on the island. It's a long range reconnaissance detachment. You're the eyes and ears for the division commander or the two star. And I said, okay, I'll throw my name in the hat. So I went, interviewed for that and got the job. And so I opted out of rope, stayed with LURS because I knew the 25th was about to go to combat. And so I did that first time that we're gonna go to combat since Vietnam. Well, so I wanted to be on that deployment. I did 13 months down range, came back, the SF thing. A few years as SF team leader. And then about your tenure mark is where you go to grad school. And so for me, I got into a program. The university of kansas, socom fully funded it 20 individuals again a selection process Well, I guess my life's a series of selections. But you go through that many selection and it's like three letter agencies everything gets can kind of throw their name in a hat got picked up did that masters was too young to go back to the unit. So I I applied for a second master's program, through the united states army command and general staff college It's called the School of Advanced Military Studies. It nicknamed the Jedi Knight course. So it basically teaches you strategy and how to write strategy and operationalize it, how to do operational design. So two back to back, two most miserable years of my career because it was... first degree was about an average of 150 pages reading a night and the second one was about 120. Wow. Geez. Yeah, so two years of just reading and jamming the books and writing and yeah, it was brutal.
speaker-1: And so You know I was in the Marine Corps in the 90s I'd prefer blue, but
speaker-0: What's your favorite color crayon? Okay.
speaker-1: I'll eat a red But
speaker-2: But...
speaker-1: There was there was not a lot of Combat veterans and it was mainly leftovers from Vietnam. So they were like E8s and and and there was some some from the first Gulf War, but You know, we know that that one that was over quick. So, there was a mentality, where you didn't have a lot of combat experience leadership. I was wondering in the SF community or in your units, was, was that an obstacle you had to climb? Like who do you who do you really pull that experience from if everyone, if you've gone long enough without, I know that it was, I'm sure there was operations around the world and people, guys were doing stuff, but.
speaker-0: That first deployment I mean I Think nobody so when I was with Lurs and we went to 25th I'm trying to and You and I may be missing it, but I don't recall it our first company commander Because that was the XO there's only two officers in Lurs He had experience We were hoping he would get extended and go with us. didn't, they replaced him right before we had to go into deployment. So we had a new guy. He did not have any experience in combat. So I don't recall anybody having experience. So it was us going over there. And those days were different. As you've heard of like PDSS's, pre-deployment site
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: site surveys, you would go over the process. You go over for a week or two, you learn from the unit, you come back, you finalize your packing list, your training, whatever you need to do, do your final prep and then come back. Early days was not like that. Early days was myself, my supply sergeant flew over a month early. and we were with 10th Mountain Lurse at the time. I'd go on missions with them. I was learning from them. I was learning how to train. I was learning the Intel. I was literally learning all that. And then I would call back on the sat phone and be like, OK, guys, bring this, bring that. Don't bring that. Leave that home. We don't need it. So you're real time telling them how to pack. And then they're packing it over there, you know, or back on the island to get ready to ship. And the whole time I'm running ops and taking notes and doing all those things. So you're, you're learning on the fly. Sure. and it's just, yeah. So to your, answer your question is there wasn't a whole, there wasn't like really any experience combat wise for us to pull from. So we had built good training. We were all kind of synchronizing what we wanted to do. we got over there. was providing information and then when they hit the ground and 25th took over the CG set of command position, that all changed anyway. Hey, go this direction, do this. And I think we, we changed locations seven times, within that year in Afghanistan. So it was, hey, go up here and do this mission for a little while. Go up here and do this mission. Go over there and do that. And so it was very, very different. And then we got to some really cool stuff at the end.
speaker-1: And You know we We got a little waiting. I wouldn't say train with we trained adjacent to the seals a little bit and To be frank, they were assholes
speaker-0: cleaned up a lot out of seals.
speaker-1: And I mentioned that because the army we while we were never up to any kind of a Threshold where we could train with actual SF We did train with some Rangers and stuff like that and they were totally different totally different attitude and I'm wondering if you ever Over your course of your career if you had you know, whether it's JSAW commissions or whatever it was did you experience that kind of difference within say tier one units or tier two units?
speaker-0: a thousand percent. Yeah, it's, we were fortunately enough at when I even I was in Lurs and was talking about some of those cool missions, we were re-task organized into what was then called Task Force Talon. The basic mission where IEDs were starting to bleed over into Afghanistan. We were given like a tier two ROE at the time. taught how to do crisis action planning through CAG or Delta. And then we've got three helicopters with three rotating crews, essentially. So we had an attack platform, we had a signal platform, and then we had a lift platform. And we got to go hunt the hunters. so that's essentially what we were built to do. So I got indoctrinated into that world early in my career. then we, so SEAL or Delta consummate professionals, awesome guys. They could have been a holes to us. They came in, they trained us. They were awesome. They truly were. And as I've gone throughout my career, I would say that's pretty consistent throughout my career and working with them. We got pulled right into, unfortunately, a first group team had taken an IED in Assadabad and that team was pretty much decimated. So we did a couple test runs with our unit, Task Force Talon. it proved successful. So we got pulled over and put into that spot where that ODA was and an ABAD. And so that was that was a unique experience just because you felt what it was like to kind of be on the verge of being a Green Beret for a little bit. I was like, this is a world I like. And so I would say as I go through it, ODAs depends on the guys on the team. You get really good ones, you get really bad ones. You get, you know, but I would say on the whole and for the most part.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: Of I'm a little bit biased, but I think we're pretty professional. a little bit more mature in our band level, because we bring guys in later in life. Seals, we'll bring them right off the street or right out of college for the officers. Obviously they've got to get through the pipeline. There's probably a maturity level issue there. Physical fitness, I would say probably Seals on average are more physically fit. But there's definitely a maturity aspect there. And so they get in trouble a lot, especially downrange. And to your point, they could be a-holes. And there's an arrogance about it. There's probably an arrogance with all the youth.
speaker-1: As there has to be to go out the tip of the spear like.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think there has to be Marsok was one of the ones that was I was Truly kind of impressed with over the years, you know, they were modeled after us mean literally as I went to lassoon they had pulled off our pipeline and their their Operations guy had their pipeline pasted on his cubicle and you know, they built a new cool building I don't know you ever get a chance to go see it, but it's really awesome They K bars for handles. it's kind of cool. That's cool. It is kind of cool. They built a really good model and made some improvements on what we had. And then downrange, mean, they're built to take over the foreign internal defense or FID missions, the UW, unconventional warfare type operations too. So they're built to kind of help augment that. And it's not like, think of it like a nonprofit. There's so much work out there to do. that are they competition? I guess it's to a certain extent, but not really because there's so much work that we can't fill all the requirements on the globe. We just can't do it. I mean, we're turning down missions and operations all the time. And so they came in and they were truly impressive as they got organized and designed and matured over the years.
speaker-2: Yeah, because when did they even come back? Because our our the Marine Corps elite, right, was recon for the longest time. When did Marsok get stood back up? I don't even think I remember.
speaker-0: I was visiting the schoolhouse, given lessons learned probably 2010. So I want to say maybe eight or seven is when they first started getting the funding and started, I would say probably right around then.
speaker-2: Okay, so still before I went in, mean, you guys are older core than I am. But that's, think, one of the biggest, it's a stark contrast. You're talking about not having really any combat experience. I felt almost bulletproof going into Afghanistan because my seniors had just rotated out, right? They had just come back from a deployment when I showed up. to my first unit and then we were deployed again six months later. So it's really interesting to hear your guys' take on it because I was in a totally different world when I was in deploying.
speaker-0: There's good and there's bad to that, right? Because if you're doing multiple deployments, there's a huge risk there that you get complacent.
speaker-2: For sure.
speaker-0: or that you compare your deployment going in to what you just went through. And I had to remind the guys, as we get subsequent deployments, once I got into SF, I was like, hey, I understand that some of the players might be the same, some of the terrain's gonna look a little bit the same, but there's one major factor that changes and it's time.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: And so how things interact, shape of
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: that, how the enemy's relating to other forces, not just us, all that dynamic's changing. So if we've been gone for like half a year or a year, understand that we should come back in our pre-trained up, should be methodical. And we should really not hand wave some of this stuff and Intel development and how things are done or techniques used. Like we've got to dig into it a little bit. And fortunately, and I think that's where that maturity level comes in. So, you know, I've been, was really, really fortunate to have some really awesome teams when I was in SF and be a part of those teams. And those guys are really mature that I worked with and they would put their heart and souls into preparation and really took. you know, kind of onus to the fact that you can't just make shortcuts because it's a huge risk. our number one goal is getting everybody back. Right. Right. So it you didn't want to take that risk, not for yourself, not for your family, not for for the guys around you. So I was fortunate enough. And I think when you when you don't have that level of maturity on the team, you would you just like, hey, man, we've done this before.
speaker-2: Yeah, which is really good. I mean, I hate to say it, but that's really what it felt like. You know, now that you explain it that way, you know, they were like, we've been here, done that. think looking back, you can see a lot of corners that were cut, especially sweeping, right? With, you know, hey, we've been here, we've done this. Like they don't put IDs here. We're not going to sweep that. Like.
speaker-0: And who's to say they can't come in and put IEDs? And a new type of IED. And you have to go through your checks and make sure you're methodical. And it sucks, right? PCC's, PSA's. You
speaker-2: yeah. Yeah, it's like, you got what you need? Good, okay.
speaker-0: get out of the vehicle, you're checking around, you're checking your steps. Yeah, it's slow, it's methodical. It sometimes puts you in harm's way when you're doing that. Because somebody has a chance to draw a beat on you. Yeah, you do it though. You got to.
speaker-1: And so I grew up in New York as a Catholic. And so if you're a Catholic and grew up in New York, you are a Notre Dame fan. And
speaker-0: I heard.
speaker-1: so I love Notre Dame. And so you were a professor at Notre Dame. That is awesome.
speaker-0: Yes It was it was a great way to end my career it was I had And honestly, I have I have done everything that I've wanted to do in my career except for one job. was a general's aide for about a year, which I did not want. I did end up getting fired from it because I was not a good aide because I didn't want it, but I was taken care of and actually got a specialty battalion and had awesome fun with that job because I was in charge of all of our special schools.
speaker-2: Wow.
speaker-0: And so I had a battalion commander at the time, but I was what we call an X3 because I was filling the S3 role and the XO. We didn't have both.
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-0: So I got to, that was a really fun job. But to answer your question, Notre Dame, they, officers compete on a board just like we do for command. At least this is the army way of doing it.
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: And then they are our version of HR, right? We call HRC is they allow two special forces officers per per year to compete and then four on their alternate list. And so I got one of the or two slots. and I ended up having my alma mater Tennessee. but My kid at the time was I think he had 39 different allergies and one of those was If like the pollen I have this yellow crap that's coming off the trees right now It gets into his pores. He would itch real bad and he would Like so his knees and elbows would literally start bleeding and cracking so And now he's outgrown that we've gone through specialty care so he can he's you know, he can have peanuts now I can have eggs now he didn't used to be able to have that but we've gone some cool treatments to help him get through that. So I called command and it's like here's my situation our specialists told me don't go to Knoxville because it's the fourth highest city with pollen and you'll have to limit your outdoor activities and so said well he's playing football on the cross so that's gonna be hard. So we had to make a decision. And I was like, hey, I'm jammed up. I was like, I don't want to give away this opportunity. And my second school was close second with Notre Dame. Very close second. And they said, OK. You got it. And that conversation was on a Friday. And I had orders cut Monday. Wow. And I was like, lights out, this is awesome. And so we moved up to Notre Dame and stepped in and I was, sometimes just luck, right? And that's a lot of it happens to your career. I was, so they had just kind of recently opened up the ability for SF officers to go do these ROTC jobs. And on that first wave was an SF guy. And then that's who I was replacing at Notre Dame was another SF guy. And he was getting out and retiring and. There was a six month waiting period before you can come back in as a government service employee or GS employee. And
speaker-2: thing.
speaker-0: so I went through the process or rehired him back as my recruiting officer. And so he's sharing all the, this is what we couldn't do. This was the, of the roadblocks. This is a, it's okay. I'm gonna start knocking down walls. And then I got one clear goal. I'm going to be the number one program in the nation. And so we took it in several categories, but we didn't get the one overall one that I wanted. The guy there now, Kobe is awesome. And he finally got there. I think their third year in a row, they're number one. So, but they're
speaker-2: Bang. There.
speaker-0: crushing it right now. And it's good to see that university, but it was awesome being there to your point about being a Notre Dame fan. Kids were spoiled. All the sports, going lacrosse games, picking out lacrosse balls underneath the pine trees, going to football games. COVID ended up being a blessing for us because everybody else got kicked off campus, students, faculty got to go to the game.
speaker-1: Nice.
speaker-0: So we're 50 yard line sitting behind Clemson's bench when we upset number one team in the nation, Clemson, during COVID. And so it's just, in just the history of that campus. And for those of who've never been, put it on your bucket list, because there's something about when you walk onto that campus, like you just feel it. You can't see it.
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: Even on TV, it doesn't come out. But when you're there, it's pretty special place. Yeah. It is. So put it on your bucket.
speaker-1: Yeah, I've experienced that. It's a very cool place.
speaker-2: I'll have to I I felt the same way about Iowa State. You know, I went there for a while. And it's it's it's weird now to go into Concordia, smaller private school and it was like, oh, you're to the football game. Oh, yeah, I season tickets. I was like, you guys have no idea. Like you get to a big 10 or whatever. You get to a D1 school and just that energy is electric. What is the big 10? OK.
speaker-0: Is that like the number two?
speaker-2: All right. All right. OK. All right.
speaker-1: So
speaker-0: the top DSP.
speaker-1: the kids kids at Notre Dame It seems like it would be very intentional if they wanted to go in the military because they do have maybe more options than Say University of Minnesota even just because they went to Notre Dame but So was there an intention there or were they still spoiled perhaps that you had to kind of
speaker-0: Not at all. I mean you can't build a good program without good character from kids. So when we recruit, my recruiting is, I mean it's what we call the tier one kind of university band. So service academies, Ivy Leagues, know, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vandy. And so that's my, that's the recruiting band that I'm... all these kids are competing in. Kids, I mean, they're adults, right? Young adults. And so when they come in, I'm doing national scholarships too, so Culver Academy, which is a boarding school about an hour and a half south of Notre Dame, they would bus up their kids and I would program a whole day and I would go through interviews for a whole day. And I had the interim system, rank them, do all this other stuff. And I'd sit on the national board too at the end of the year and pick some of these kids out. So I knew the importance of it and I can spot character pretty well. One of the questions I would always kind of ask is especially if they went to like boarding schools or anything was you know Why did you decide to go to boarding school? I think I have only had out of all those I think I only get one answer where it was My parents forced me to go type situate everything else was self-driven. she's amazing. Yeah amazing like who is an eighth grader pulling up documentation off the internet and going I want to go to this boarding school. And I want to set myself up for getting into a good college and or doing this.
speaker-1: Not little Tom McKenna,
speaker-0: And these kids are running their own businesses. got nonprofits. They're doing, and like legit ones, not like lawn service. And it's amazing. Some of these kids that are out there. So you look at that character, what they're doing, the energy that they're putting in. And you kind of recruit in that same fashion too. And our model was very, very different. It was, you go to a state school and it was cheeks and seats type model. So you put as many people as you can in a seat and then it trits over time until you get to senior class and then you graduate. Ours is very different because we're a smaller program. was a retention rate had to be high and these kids are getting four year national scholarships. And so you, you want to make sure that's not wasted as well. And so. And you're trying to recruit to become the number one program in the nation, right? So there's a little bit of this person's got this this and this and I and we kind of have like a little formula going on that we we can pick out kids to as
speaker-2: long.
speaker-0: And then that SF guy I told you about that brought back on and he's my recruiting officer. So we would compare notes all the time What do you think about what? And the university is very, helpful. And that's the other thing I'll say is, is a quick math on Notre Dame, 20,000 applicants per year. Um, 7,000 meet Notre Dame standards. can only take two. How do you cut 5,000 kids? How do you cut 5,000 kids that meet your state? They got to stand out.
speaker-2: Right? Yeah.
speaker-0: And so I carved out a little piece of that pie and go, Hey, look, I'm going to make sure they meet your standards off that. But I need I need you to give me grace on like 40 because 40 is going to get me 25 if that makes sense. So I'm going to get 40 that I'm going to we're going to say get accepted and do the ROTC program only about 20 25. We're going to show up because they're going to they'll take the service academy because it's completely debt free. Right. They'll go to you know George for some reason Georgetown was high competition for us for a couple of years and then Princeton too. Just we had a weird competition. with those two schools.
speaker-2: Thank
speaker-0: But yeah, it's just, it's all about relationships. It's about, you know, building good programs. And I did make a joke that, and it's still a joke for those who are listening, my hardest thing was trying to turn nerds into warriors. they, at the end of day, it's just about adulting. They were all good kids. They came from good families. Mom and dad did a good job of putting good character into those kids and building that up over time. So by the time they got to Notre Dame, I didn't have any of the issues that other school does. Nothing. I mean, you got kids down in state schools that are selling drugs and have a drug ring or whatever the charges are, right? It goes far and wide. kids was just hey let's maybe take a break from studying so much let's find a balance in life and trying to teach them how to adult
speaker-1: Sure.
speaker-0: and so which wasn't hard because they were receptive and listening right
speaker-2: Do you think, you talk about turning nerds into warriors, because I was a recruiter for the Marine Corps, enlisted side obviously, do you think you, when you look to an applicant, you say, yeah, they'll do well in the Army, or yes, their Army material, they'll benefit the whole, or, because I'm thinking about me, these literal kids, right, they're 16, 17, 18 when they're talking to you. Questioning some of my some of my decisions about sending kids down to medicine put them in the core Do you feel like you kind of? could kind of train that into them or or out of them or Well, I guess where did that sit with you?
speaker-0: I think the first year was a bit of a question mark, but once I got through the first full year in cycle, I would say call it arrogance, call it what you want to, but I had confidence not only in me, but the cadre, right? And the seniors. Seniors play a huge part in training too. But once I built that confidence within that first year with the program itself, I had confidence that these individuals that we were recruiting were going to come in and we were going to, you know, they were going to come out the other side and they were going to be competent officers getting in front of people. there, and there were, there were quite a few that were question marks that complete introverts, a
speaker-2: Okay. Yeah.
speaker-0: little bit different. then You just as long as you have people that care like good cadre that care and had a great great Enlisted counterpart, I mean, that's what we do it in the army. We have an officer and then unless it's to help balance each other out, and that's critical and and He he was awesome he had a way of connecting with the students that I didn't and then But then I had different ways to look at things that he did And then we just, the whole intent was to build these, you know, young adults into future leaders when they step in front of their platoon, they can take charge. And yeah, there was a few that were question marks for sure. And then, but we just kept at it and kept going and kept pushing them. Like when they thought they had reached their ceiling, like, yeah, let's push a little harder. Let's
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: get them past their comfort.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: Some didn't need it. Some were like, yep, got it. Put a challenge in front of them and they crush it. Do it again, do it again. And those are the ones that you're gonna put in as a senior, you're gonna put as your battalion commander, your ops
speaker-2: Thanks,
speaker-0: officer, so you're gonna put into your major leadership positions. For sure.
speaker-1: So that was your last assignment.
speaker-0: That was it. hung up the spurs and said, here's the, gave it to the next generation and said, let's go.
speaker-1: So that's kind of a, maybe, well you tell me, is it a less jarring off-ramp than just being in your SF unit one day and not the next?
speaker-0: It's definitely an easier glide path. But when it's time to take off that uniform and everything for the last time, I thought I was pretty well prepared. And I guess to a certain extent I was. I mean moved here, I got a job right away. But that was a year worth of conversation. And that only really happened because COVID hit us while it was at Notre Dame. It allowed me the time to start reaching out and making conversation and figuring out like, what does it mean a network on the civilian world? And so, but when it came time, was different. Minnesota is a unique place. It is it's a you're New Yorker. So I mean Yeah,
speaker-1: transplant
speaker-0: so you understand this it's it's one of those ones where And I see it I kind of empathize with my wife a little bit like we're moving every few years and But I'm going to places where I know people like I'm gonna go to
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: this unit Hey, I know like, you know five or six people and we get along really well It's awesome and we're right back into it and And she may know him but not really but she's kind of off on her own, right? She's got kids and she's starting to meet neighbors and by the time we make real good friends It's year two or three and we got a move again
speaker-1: Right.
speaker-0: But here she she grew up in Minnesota. So now the roles are reversed. I'm coming here. I don't know a single soul besides family and then It and a few of her friends, but we're not really close, you know that I hadn't met from her childhood, but she gets to come right back into it and reconnect with old friends, do all that. And I'm kind of just, okay, well, I guess I'll go start a job and military things gone. this is awkward. All right, guess it's a little bit like that cartoon, the old Bugs Money cartoons where you got Fred and Ralph that pass each other as they're going into and out of work. And they just click the check and keep going. they're like, hello Ralph, hello Fred.
speaker-2: Religious matter.
speaker-0: And so it was a little bit like that. And so yeah, it wasn't fun. Over the years, one of pieces of advice I got going out was, don't be like a vet that sticks their head in the sand. Like getting, stay involved, do something. I immediately kind of threw my hat, name in the hat to help coach. That built a lot of our friendships and relationships over the years, being, being a head coach in lacrosse and then, uh, helping out coach with football and being on the football board. So I kind of my name in the hat and a few things, uh, you know, a USA, which is a, you know, association, United States army had, you know, got involved with that. Actually got, wanted told to pull into that one, but, uh, glad I was. And then I had a couple other things like you know a couple of nonprofits that are around I just kind of help out here and there you know ETS is one of those two where I'll come in and Once John's got his hooks in you I can't get rid of
speaker-2: You can.
speaker-0: them so And I come in and help out with the cohort once a quarter. You know, which is fine and it's this little taste that helped me stay connected and I also pick up a contract with the human performance company and I go every now and then I'll get pulled Once or twice a year, it's not very often. I'll get pulled to go be a lead where we bring in like specialists, like sleep, know, sleep, scientists, five time CrossFit champ for strength and conditioning, you know, Olympic level nutritionist, all these experts that get brought in and I'll go lead that for like a three letter agency in DC. And so I'll go do that for a day or two or three days at most. and then that, so little things like that. kept helped me stay in touch and helped me hold on to that little community and made that transition a little easier but it I mean and it's just again, have faith that you're gonna make friends and be a part of the community and do everything else. Because going back to the Minnesota is weird. I people around here are, they grew up with each other.
speaker-1: Right.
speaker-0: They're connected for like 30, 40, 50 years, multi-generation, and they have their set traditions and routines. And you just, you know.
speaker-2: just happened this weekend as the opener. Yeah.
speaker-0: the fifth take off for that and and because I didn't grow up here it's
speaker-2: .
speaker-0: like I'm not a part of those traditions or anything or get pulled in and certainly I've got some close friends here now but You're still on the outside. You're still an outsider. Whereas like if I settled in Tampa, it wouldn't, like I wouldn't blink an eye. I know probably 10 people down there right now and I'm jumping right back into old friends and we're gonna go doing what we're gonna go do. So
speaker-2: Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: yeah, it's just different.
speaker-1: So and then and you went on to Cargill
speaker-0: I did.
speaker-1: And was that well Cargill is a sponsor of ours and They've been great to us and so but it's not Cargill specific question. The question would be Was the corporate environment difficult to adapt to?
speaker-0: It is different. I think I was very open-minded in going into a world where I didn't know anything and I'm just gonna learn. Like I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna see if I can survive outside the military. So that was my first question, right? Can I even make it? think it's, mean, correct me if I'm but. 60, 70 percent of veterans don't make it past the first year on their first job.
speaker-2: I didn't.
speaker-0: It's something, yeah, it's something crazy. It's a crazy stat like that. And not that I was looking to beat the stat or anything, but I was just like, I just wanted to get in and learn and had some... first bosses at Cargill that took that time to, well, I I really take the time. I was in an accelerator program, so they took time away from me, but they put pressure on me to see if I could make it, and they had faith in me that I could endure and handle the stress. Was that the best at it? No, but I was coming in with... you know, late to the game where other people had 10, 15 years experience, maybe longer, learning how to do some of stuff I was doing. so I just had leadership under my belt and management under my belt and I had a high level of common sense that I can apply, which actually goes farther than I thought it did, a lot further. But it's... So yeah, was long answer to your question. It was more difficult than I thought. Was it miserable like other people say? No, but I think that's very dependent on the company and culture you go into. It
speaker-1: Sure, yes.
speaker-0: is. And I was deliberate about asking the question of... What is culture like at your company? When I was talking to companies before I committed to Cargill. So
speaker-2: you
speaker-0: I was getting a read on the culture more than I was the job or the position itself. And there was a couple of companies that stood out, Cargill being one of those. it just happened that the timing for the position opened up a little sooner than maybe some other companies were willing to open up. And so I took that.
speaker-1: Cool. So what does it look like for you today? What does the next five years, 10 years look like?
speaker-0: It's a great question.
speaker-1: Sometimes that's not even a fair question.
speaker-0: If I had a crystal ball man, I would I would literally just go play at the stock market and be a millionaire right now and that would and that would it and then I would Give money to the organizations that I really want to give to you like, you know ETS but it's because you guys do some great stuff here for veterans, but it I Don't know I am Out of Cargill I'm having conversations with a couple different companies now and hoping to wrap those up within the next couple weeks and get some direction on what I'm going to do. it's really, I think for me, I've kind of, I deliberately shifted away from the defense industry. But after not being there, and then getting and having some of these conversations with some of the companies I'm talking to now, I've realized that maybe I missed it more than I thought. And then stuff comes back to me really, really fast too, whenever we're conversations and I'm like, I actually do know some stuff. So I'm kind of excited about that. whatever I get, I'm hoping to do that for the next 10 years or so until the kids get out. and they go to college, maybe longer, if I really like it. Still helping out with nonprofits, which I really like. AUSA, I'll take over as president this summer.
speaker-1: Nice.
speaker-0: And so I'll do that for about two years. And it's it's a volunteer position, but it's fun. And one of my goals there is to kind of build it back up. We got that Norwegian Foot March, which we've talked about before in the past, and that's a good one. And that's one of the ones that we're intentionally going to really open up the doors next year to have nonprofits like ETS come out there and set up a booth and talk to soldiers. I mean, we're close to 1,000 participants at this thing. And
speaker-1: That's nice.
speaker-0: so plus family and friends on top of that. So it's really to connect the community to the military a little bit better. I really want to organizations like this and into that as well. So that's kind of that as far as coaching for the kids. The oldest was the lacrosse and so I'm retired from that. The middle one still got one more year in middle school. So if he goes back to football, I'll. do one more year there. My youngest decided she was gonna jump into lacrosse as a 10 year old. So then I got pulled out of retirement in coaching her. But it's like learning a whole new sport. Girls and men's lacrosses are totally, they're totally two different sports. So I've had to relearn a lot there. I've been coaching this
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: season. So I'll still do a little bit of that, but that's my way of staying connected with the kids too.
speaker-1: Yeah. Well, Eric, you got it.
speaker-2: I don't, I don't, I learned a lot Trey. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks a lot man.
speaker-0: Yeah, thank you for having me. hope it didn't bore you. No.
speaker-2: I don't know. I'm just sitting over here still soaking some of it.
speaker-1: Great conversation and you know, thank you for all you've done. That's it's It's worthy of thanks to go into the military but to take those steps to go into those those units where you you know where you're end up and to do that voluntarily and to do that intentionally is is Take some take some balls
speaker-0: It was all selfish. 100%. I wanted to be in those units, right? Because I knew what they were. And you want to push yourself and see if you are the best. And see if you can make that selection. If you can make that next ridge line. And so it was, I got more out of it than it probably got out of me.
speaker-2: There you go.
speaker-1: Well, like Eric said, thank you. thank you for what you do for the veterans that go through water's return. You're always well received and they really, you you come in with all the experience without the arrogance and that's not always easy to do. So we appreciate what you do for us very much.
speaker-0: I threatened them all to give me five stars at the end. That's my secret.
speaker-1: You
speaker-0: No, it truly has been an honor. Every time I come here and I talk to the veterans and sit down with them for a couple hours, sometimes I go over. Sorry. I feel better leaving. Hopefully I helped them. I think maybe I do sometimes. Think you do. But I definitely feel better when I leave knowing that maybe some of them, their eyes got opened a little bit and they're heading down a better path.
speaker-2: Yep.
speaker-1: deal well thank you and yeah that's all we got
