#0036 SKETCH AVENUE - ELEVATING IN A CHALLENGE!

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Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Noah Lamb podcast.
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Now, there are always hurdles on any journey, especially on a creative one.
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And some people may fall and simply give up.
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And then there are others who can face challenges however tough, and they just seem to elevate and rise to it.
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They may not know how while they're in it, maybe it's forced upon them, but they just do it.
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And our guest on this episode is a great example of that.
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We're joined by ceramicist Aisha Beebe from Sketch Avenue.
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Now, looking at Aisha's work, you may find it hard to believe that she only began working in ceramics a couple of years ago.
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But she took on the challenge of learning this new skill head on and now creates the most incredible pieces, which are often abstract yet ergonomically designed and inspired by everything from architecture, the Bauhaus movement, and even pop art.
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Now she may be relatively new to ceramics, but Aisha has repeatedly sold out her collections and her work can now be found in locations all over the world, including LA and Dubai.
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But not only that, in 2025 Aisha featured on the UK TV show Be Your Own Boss, where she was mentored by the not on the high street founder Holly Tucker, which helped give Aisha more confidence to push forward and develop Sketch Avenue further as a business and a brand.
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She's definitely been busy.
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Now you might be thinking, okay, so where are the challenges?
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Well, the journey for Aisha to get here is a long one.
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And I could sit and tell you all of the hurdles that she's faced along the way, but surely it's better to hear them from the person who faced them, overcame them, and who elevated in the face of every challenge that was put in front of her.
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So, you can check out the links to Aisha's work while you're listening to the podcast, of course, but for now, let's get into it.
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This seems to be a bit of an underlying thing for you, Aisha.
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Yep.
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But let's talk ceramics.
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Okay.
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You are an Uber creative person, but ceramics is the main thing right now, isn't it?
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Right now, ceramics is the main thing.
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And the brand Sketch Avenue.
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So the Brand Sketch Avenue has been in the background for a long time.
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And when I used to work in interiors and property developments, all my favourite projects were always on an avenue.
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In like a big swanky avenue in like London or whatever.
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Big mansion houses, just really gorgeous buildings to like work in, like a as a blank canvas.
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Because I was going to ask where the name came from, and that's brilliant.
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Yeah, that's where Avenue comes from in Sketch.
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Like I sketch 24 hours a day.
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So Sketch Avenue, what are we kind of calling that?
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Like a the umbrella brand that encompasses you and your whole creativity?
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I think so.
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I think it covers most of what I do.
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And there's an element of branding there.
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Yeah.
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But also it's really open.
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So whatever I do still falls into that.
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But shall we talk ceramics?
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Because this is how we met.
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It is indeed, yes.
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I saw your amazing work and then we had a bit of a chat and we worked out that we've got quite a few little interweaving connections that we didn't know about before we actually had a conversation.
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But ceramics, how would you describe the ceramics that you create?
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I'd say that the ceramics I create are abstract, quite architectural.
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Again, it goes back to my interior architecture background.
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Really bold.
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Yeah, they speak for themselves, I think.
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Ergonomic, because that's where I was heading with tactile and people with motoring difficulties and things like that.
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So that's a big part of my ceramics.
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And it's given me like somewhere to put colour where I didn't always have that advantage when I was in interiors because it's limited by the client and not everyone wants to go wild.
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Yeah.
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And that's how I would describe it.
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I've described it as sort of like pop art in ceramics.
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Yeah, pop art, bauhouse, you know, uh a bit of brutalism, kind of all mushed together.
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But ceramics is quite a new thing for you, isn't it?
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It is.
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It's very new.
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Which is crazy to me when I look at the work because from my naivety, it seems so advanced and you seem so far along that sort of ceramics journey.
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But actually, you only started pottery post-COVID, right?
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Yeah, only about a year and a half ago.
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Which is kind of mad because as we're sat here now, you've got pieces that you've sold in LA, Dubai, you've sold out markets, you've been part of a television show called Be Your Own Boss, which was Holly Tucker, the founder of Not on the High Street.
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Correct, yeah.
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And she sort of acts as like a mentor.
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She has been there.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So there's been this quite fast progression through it.
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There has, strangely.
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I wasn't expecting any of it, or I hadn't really planned for any of it either.
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Just started doing what I love doing, not knowing that I actually loved ceramics.
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And then it just it's just evolved.
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Just got me out of the house, meeting people, talking to people every day, meeting other creatives, and the work just got developed.
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Is this the point where we need to go backwards a bit and talk about the journey to get there?
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Possibly.
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Because you actually studied fine art.
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I did.
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I studied fine art over 25 years ago, I think.
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Did you do any ceramics as part of that?
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I think I did a little bit.
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I made a cup.
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You made a cup?
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I made a cup, I made a giant cup, a giant blue cup and saucer in my degree.
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But I didn't really uh follow that through or anything.
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It was more installation work that I was focused on.
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Can we talk a little bit about that?
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Because like you say, it was lots of installation work experimenting with virtual environments and public spaces.
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And then you said something to me that I wrote down that I didn't let you explain when we spoke.
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What is an intimidation space?
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I knew you were gonna say that.
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So I used to have dreams when I was little, and I'd always be like in this place or this city, and these buildings were so vast and so big they'd just haunt me.
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That's where the intimidation of space came from.
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And I found with my art, I played with that.
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So I'd make sculptures, like spatial sculptures, so like white dental plaster, really shiny bowls would be like placed inside them, or really colour blocky kind of shapes, mainly block bowls I embedded into plaster, and then I'd create these like little videos where there was like people standing on the edge, like almost on the edge that you you could fall off, or people tearing in really uncomfortably, and things like that.
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So that's interesting.
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Why bowls?
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Because obviously, then my my quick thinking that connects to the ceramics later on.
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So you can't climb out of a bowl.
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You can't climb out of a bowl.
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So that was intimidation factor.
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Is that like crabs in a bucket?
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Yeah, but then that's interesting.
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So you did your fine art degree and you were headhunted after your degree show as a result of these kind of spaces, these installations, these that led to essentially a 10-year-plus career working with luxury developments across the world with interior design and spaces.
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And you worked with a an exciting young company in in London.
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Correct.
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I worked for a company in London who had the advantage of a lot of investment, which meant we had a lot of free reign in what we produced as the interiors, or essentially our artworks, and they were show apartments, so we could go all out and source from all over the world and create these really intense, immersive spaces.
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And with that, we could bring in lots of technology that hadn't been used before.
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You spoke about in a pre-sort of Netflix age where you were doing all this stuff and kitting all these places out with these servers that you could just access any film.
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I mean, now that seems like completely normal.
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You just go on Netflix Prime, whatever these, we're not endorsed by any of these, by the way.
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If they want to sponsor us, they can.
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Um But you can just find whatever, can't you?
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But this was a while ago, didn't we?
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Oh, this is a while ago.
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Um, so this is going back 18 years, maybe, maybe longer.
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But we basically had servers that had all the films put on them, depending on whether they wanted 200 films, 300 films, whatever.
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And they'd play out this server, which was in your kind of plant room in your house with all the other electronic gibbons that operated your house.
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So panic rooms, lighting, heating, whatever.
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Oh, they were that extreme.
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There were panic rooms.
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There were panic rooms.
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I can't even imagine having a real panic room.
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What were they kitted out with these panic rooms?
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So everything looks pretty normal, but in case of an emergency, everything shuts down.
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So they're basically in this safe box.
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Yeah, a safe box.
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Yeah.
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So these are these are clients with mega money?
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Yeah, I would say so.
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And could be endangered.
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Oh yeah, I suppose the more money you have, the more likely, I guess.
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Not a world I'm ever gonna be a part of, I don't think.
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But that must be interesting.
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And how was I mean, you weren't putting bowls in these spaces, I'm guessing, but how was the crossover from what you were doing at university in these installations moving into the interiors of these wealthy?
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I think it was the freedom of material use.
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So I was able to source materials from all sorts of places, quarries where I could handpick the marble or the granite or whatever it was.
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I was able to go out to say somewhere in Italy or whatever, and actually handpick the grain, handpick the pattern.
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And that was something really unreal because it's not nothing I imagined I'd be doing in my wildest dream and in my 20s.
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I didn't really appreciate it.
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I just thought, oh, this is just work.
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And looking back now, I'm just like, wow.
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Yeah, I had no concept of what I was actually doing.
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It just seemed like a very unrealistic world looking back now.
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But when you're in it, you just sort of get wrapped up, oh, that's completely normal.
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I'm going to an Italian quarry to pick some marble.
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That's it.
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That's it.
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You don't think about it.
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It's like, right, I need to source this and I need it yesterday, so I need to go now, pick out everything, have everything milled, and put on a boat to ship around the coast.
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Wow.
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That's quite the job though, isn't it?
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Really?
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I mean, when the budgets increase, I guess does creativity increase for you guys?
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I think creative freedom increases.
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Not necessarily creativity, but I think having access to all these components certainly help when you're building something or designing something.
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You know, you can go out and you can look at material, you can touch material, you can experiment with material.
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I think that the developing side of things is funded.
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So then you're able to express what you want using the materials that are right for you, as opposed to being limited to say MDF and it can only go so far.
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Well, budget, budget restrictions.
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Exactly, exactly.
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And it sounds like, from what we've discussed, it sounds like it was quite intense.
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Long hours, very demanding, not many holidays.
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No, not many holidays.
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Burnout on every round every corner by the sound of it.
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Yeah, I don't think I had a holiday for about seven years.
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Really?
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Yeah, yeah.
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It was just constantly on the go.
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And one of the projects that I worked on lasted the best part of five and a half years, so there was no definitely no holidays.
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Wow.
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During that time.
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Yeah.
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I've sold on the promise that you could take as much time off as you needed when you needed it.
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If you had the availability, it turned out we didn't have any availability to take any time off.
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And that puts pressure on, right?
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It puts pressure on.
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It's it becomes your lifestyle, it becomes everything you do.
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Did you feel that when you were in it?
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Was there, I mean, I suppose during the early days of it, it's probably just exciting.
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But what was the point where you got a bit like, oh god, this is so intense?
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I think the moment where I where it started to get really intense was when we had a an A V project for a client who was very well known.
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And that's audio visual project.
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That's audio visual.
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And uh that was my turning point of my and I was just a bit like that's not what I want to do.
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Like, I want to work in audiovisual.
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But it was exciting because it was something I didn't know about and something I actually found interesting, and then just went head first into it all.
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So you were really working across so interior design, sourcing products, and then all down to the technology, the panic rooms, all these.
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It sounds so diverse across the spectrum of ininverted commas interior design.
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Absolutely, down to like plumbing and electrical circuits.
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What was the worst bit of it?
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Funnily enough, right?
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The worst bit was actually the final finishes.
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Because by the time we get to final finishes, I didn't care anymore.
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Oh really?
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I don't care anymore.
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There's just so much coming together.
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It's just towards the end where you've got to do, I don't know, like curtains and cushions.
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Just like soft furnishings on, but you know.
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Listen, let's just get someone to come and do that.
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I just made a panic room.
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I don't care what cushions you can put in it.
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Exactly.
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It was yeah.
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I used to think that final finishes were gonna be the thing that I was gonna be most excited about.
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But I went in there not knowing anything about interior design and interior architecture.
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I learned everything day by day on the job, as and when it came up.
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What do you think they saw in your degree show that made them think, whoa, this person's gonna be brilliant for our young, exciting, up-and-coming design business?
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I think it was really playful without me actually realizing.
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I was creating spaces that could be changed without changing the space, so with lighting or by moving a couple of objects and things, and it could change the environment quite drastically.
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It can make it really cold or really warm or really cozy or whatever, but just by moving a few elements, and I think that's what they saw in my degree show.
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So, yeah, just manipulating space.
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I just asked a question because this idea of the intimidation spaces, it doesn't sound very friendly, welcoming, warm.
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No.
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And I think to myself, oh, what I wonder what that design company thought.
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Oh god, yo, let's let's get the girl that did the really intimidating spaces in to do all these really expensive interior designs.
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I mean, I might be wrong, but I think if they just saw that I wasn't fearful of the project brief, I would just go and push it as far as I could and push myself to the limits and not really have any kind of like reservation about presenting an idea.
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Did you feel quite fearless back then?
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I had no awareness.
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I just had no awareness.
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I was just like, right, this is what I I'm feeling and this is what I'm planning to do.
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And you know, it wasn't even a case of what do you think?
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But a lot of the time, it was like, I really want to do this, it's gonna look like this, it's gonna feel like this, and this is what we need, and blah, blah, blah, whatever.
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And it's just I think my lack of awareness probably um got me up a few steps.
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I think as I've got older, I've become more aware of things, and that limits sort of creativity in some way.
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That's interesting.
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Yeah.
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Because I think that ties into some of the story later.
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But it seems like yeah, the fearlessness of youth.
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I mean, you don't call it fearlessness, but I think there is that maybe that naivety where you say where you just go, no, I really want to do this.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So can we?
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Exactly.
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And if we can't, how can we?
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Yeah, exactly.
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And that's problem solving, isn't it?
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Exactly.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And you move to London?
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I moved down there because I wanted to get into this company.
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:02.240
That's pretty cool.
00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:09.039
And then it went on to lead to panic rooms, sourcing marble, exactly, audio, visual, films on servers, pre-Netflix.
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:09.440
Yeah.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:10.720
That's very cool.
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:11.200
Yeah.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.360
I must have taught you a lot.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:15.519
It absolutely did.
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:16.879
It taught me.
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:31.919
I'm not the best organized person, but it taught me to be sharp on my organization skills and have everything, every document prepared and ready and every answer to every question, because it was going to be questioned by the investors continuously because ultimately they were funding it.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.240
If there's 20 grand on a projector, we want to know whether why is it costing us 20,000 pounds?
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.480
Like what's so special about that projector.
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.279
Exactly.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:40.720
So, yeah.
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:42.320
Had to answer every question.
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:44.000
And you were doing these big projects.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.240
You even did did you do the whole house in?
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.600
Is that where the Beatles used?
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.200
Um yeah, where the Beatles used to hang out back in their heyday.
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.360
That's quite a cool claim to fame as well.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:54.639
Yeah, it is pretty cool.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.919
But again, in my twenties, I had no concept.
00:16:58.399 --> 00:16:59.519
No, you don't though, do you?
00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:00.159
You just do.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.399
You just do it and go, yep, this is the stuff I'm doing.
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000
And then I guess with hindsight, you go back and go, God, that was That was pretty spectacular.
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:06.960
Pretty cool.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:07.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:08.319
Totally.
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:15.759
So we've spoken about the pressures of the job, but you also said it it felt quite a lot of pressure being a woman in that job.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:16.960
Absolutely.
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:17.599
Why?
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.680
Can we talk a little bit more about that?
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:24.400
Well, I was definitely the youngest in the team, which was already notable.
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.160
And there just wasn't many women in that industry at all.
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:29.839
I mean, ultimately it was construction.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:38.799
You say interiors, but ultimately you're on a building site day in, day out, measuring and working things out, and that comes away before any design work goes in.
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:40.720
There was never any women on site.
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.279
There were builders, surveyors, architects, and very few women.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.880
I think we had one girl who was the health and safety officer.
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:49.680
That was it.
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:53.440
I think I was the only female in a team of 170 people.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:54.160
Wow.
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:54.640
Yeah.
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:55.680
Okay, yeah.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:58.640
That's not a very diverse group of people, really, is it?
00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.680
No, no.
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.680
Did you feel like you had to prove yourself in that male-dominated world?
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:04.160
Yeah.
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:16.480
I mean, I don't think I realised at the time, but I looking back now, definitely I was constantly like trying to elevate and prove myself to be like the same as everybody else, where we shouldn't have to be.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:29.279
But yeah, definitely felt the pressure from like the male design team of this like young girl coming in and wanting to do XYZ and like really ambitious plans to change things.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.000
And there was a lot of sort of like, well, we don't do that.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.000
And it's like, well, why not?
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.039
It was like, why not?
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:36.079
And why can't we?
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.519
Or let's just try it.
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.039
How I maybe look at like younger people now going, Well, are you sure?
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:42.079
Right, okay.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:47.440
Yeah, I suppose you've got some young buck coming in and going, they want to do it this way, but we've never done it that way.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:48.640
Exactly.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.440
And then as a woman, you met a partner.
00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:54.240
Yep.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.279
And your boss at the time didn't really like that.
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:04.079
He sort of future thought the process and was like, Oh, this one woman in 170 people, she's got a womb.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:05.440
She's gonna want to get pregnant.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.200
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:14.160
I called him on the Sunday before I was coming back to London to say that I'd got some news and he said I don't want to hear it.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:15.200
Really?
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:16.960
Because he'd already preempted what that was.
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.160
Yeah, he was like, No, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to know.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:25.200
You're just gonna leave and have a baby and have a family, and that's gonna be your most important thing in your life.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.640
And I was like, Yeah, I still want to do my job.
00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:29.039
Right.
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.599
You know, that shouldn't alienate me from my work.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:32.799
Um did it.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.599
It did.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.480
It did.
00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:40.079
It pushed me into a corner and I was treated very differently after I announced that.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.200
It actually meant that I ended up handing in my notice.
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.160
Oh, is that bad?
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:45.839
Yeah, yeah, it got really silly.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:46.480
Yeah.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.039
Yeah.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:53.920
I went completely freelance, moved up to Warwickshire and worked on the areas of the project.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.559
I said you almost felt like you were just starting again.
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.799
Yeah, it was, but it was also, I think it was the right time to make that move as well.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.440
Did you feel like you were burning out a little bit?
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:04.480
I was burnt out.
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:10.000
I was definitely burnt out and uh yeah, I needed a change of scenery, I needed a new challenge.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:17.759
And I think that was a time where I started to evaluate how the longevity in actually doing what I was doing was going to be.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.119
Because it you couldn't do that.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.880
It's like traders, they burn out, you know, it's intense, it's 18-hour days.
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.000
You can't sustain that for any kind of normal life.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.519
Sounds like it's 18-hour days travelling, demanding clients.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.359
So then you meet your ex-partner, you're pregnant.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.160
Yeah.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:35.680
Do we want to discuss?
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.640
Should we go down this way?
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.160
I mean, we we started by saying, you know, elevating a challenge.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.480
Yes.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.759
And I want to sort of express that life hasn't always been the easiest for you, has it, Aisha?
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.359
No, sometimes some of the challenges I take on aren't the right challenges.
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.160
But due to my naivety, I take them on nonetheless.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.240
Okay, should we talk a little bit more about that?
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.400
Yeah, so my boss was absolutely right when he said this guy is gonna run you to the ground.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:01.920
And he was talking about my partner that got with, and he did.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.000
Do you want to say a bit more?
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:05.119
What in what way?
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:18.319
He was abusive and controlling, and tried to dis dictate every element of my life and having got pregnant, he actually announced that he owns me.
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.599
I beg your pardon?
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:20.240
Yes.
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.319
He actually said that out loud.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:22.720
Yeah.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.599
He got very violent and physically abusive.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.240
So that had to come to a head in the end.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.279
Yeah.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.039
And what did that feel like for you?
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:40.400
But bearing in mind you'd sort of had your boss tell you that this guy was gonna do this.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:46.319
And I guess my question is what is your mental state when you've got a baby?
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:53.039
You've split up from this abusive partner when you're a single parent, you've got to kind of process like that?
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:54.559
Absolutely.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.079
My entire life plan turned itself on its head.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.279
Well, that's what I sort of mean.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:16.319
This high-flying world of jetting around choosing marbles and yeah, you know, doing locations up where the Beatles have stayed, just suddenly being, oh, I've got a baby and I'm back in the Midlands and what the hell do I do?
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.440
And this is my whole point.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.039
Elevating a challenge.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.799
You are in a challenging spot now.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:21.279
Yeah.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.960
What's your mindset like at that point when you're I was a mess.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:25.440
Really?
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:28.880
Yeah, I was I could not think for the life of me.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.680
Like everything felt like it was moving so fast around me.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.119
But I couldn't get on that train.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.000
I couldn't figure out which door to take or anything.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.920
You know, do I move back to London?
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:39.920
Do I go back into the same industry?
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:41.440
But then what do I do with my child?
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.359
I'm a single parent, his father wants nothing to do with him, so I'm going to be bringing him up on my own.
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:46.960
Can I afford to do that in London?
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.920
How safe would I feel in London bringing up a child of my own?
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.920
Do I need to be around friends and family?
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.519
Do I need to move to the countryside?
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:54.400
What do I need to do?
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.079
It was lots and lots of choices.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.400
I came to Birmingham because one of my best friends lived in Birmingham.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:11.200
And I ended up moving in with my best friend, and he helped me with knowing the sort of early kind of stages while we got settled, found a new home.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:21.759
But it was just, I think it was like three to four years of absolute chaos and handing my son around to people so I could do a little bit of freelance work here, a bit of photography here, a bit of this here, a bit of that here.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.559
This is where your overall creativity comes in, isn't it?
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:31.519
You're literally just using all of these skill sets to try and support a young baby that's.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:32.799
Should we talk about Noah?
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:33.119
Yeah.
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:34.880
He's not a young baby anymore, is he?
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.200
No, he's 15, he's going to be 16 this year.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:37.680
It's nuts.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.480
But Noah had some challenges, didn't he, when he was younger?
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:41.680
Noah did have some challenges.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.759
Noah still has the challenges, but we just we manage those challenges differently.
00:23:45.839 --> 00:24:05.119
So Noah is autistic, he's ADHD, and he has developmental coordination disorder, which means he struggles with like spaces and gripping things and managing his kind of surrounding spaces and which seems a bit interrelated to what you were doing at university, what you've done for a long time.
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:09.599
Yeah, I think Noah's shed a huge spotlight on me.
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:16.559
You know, the whole thing about apples and trees, and Noah's challenges have taught me a lot about myself.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:22.400
And some of the things that I struggled with as a kid that weren't seen when we were younger.
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:25.839
Whose challenges have taught me to be an adult.
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:27.359
Can you say more about that?
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:28.160
What do you mean?
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.279
I know you know what you mean, but I'd like to try and expand on that if we can.
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:35.519
I think before I was mum, I was kind of naive to the world.
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:48.319
And I thought everybody was like really lovely and really supportive, and you just bounce like a bouncy ball through life, and you get the results you want, and you have a nice time along the way.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:54.000
But having got together with his dad and having Noah, it really turned everything on its head.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:25:00.160
It took me to a really dark place where I could not understand how anybody could be so unkind.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:05.440
And actually, I had not planned to bring up a child on my own.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:15.519
And having thought about when I do have a child, the kind of life I'd want to give my child was very different to what I was able to offer him at that point, and it made me really upset.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:29.039
And I was constantly sort of resentful to myself for not being able to provide what I wanted to provide for him, and that was the absolute basics, you know, which you would expect food and a roof.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.359
There was a point where I couldn't provide that for him, and I had to seek help.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:40.240
And growing up as the sixth child to my parents, I always learnt to fend for myself.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:46.000
I was always last in line, so I always figured it out and worked it out and never had to go to my parents for anything.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:48.720
Are you thankful for that now with Time Slow?
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:56.079
Absolutely, absolutely, because I think that taught me so much resilience and so much like troubleshooting, problem solving.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.319
Okay, we've got this situation, what we're gonna do.
00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:59.599
It didn't come easy.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.440
Which is what creativity is, isn't it?
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:02.240
Problem solving.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:02.559
Yeah.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.759
And can we just talk to me a little bit about the family?
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:11.920
Because I remember we had a conversation about obviously the creative path is not one that parents like us to pursue.
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.799
No, they want you to be a I don't know, academic.
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.160
Academic of some sort.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:16.960
Yeah, no.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:18.799
So my siblings are all academics.
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:19.839
And that's what I mean.
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:20.640
That's kind of interesting.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.039
Yeah, the sixth child that's had to do all the problem solving.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:23.279
Yeah.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:24.640
No wonder you're the creative one.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:25.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:26.400
No, totally.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:31.920
When it came to going to university, my parents were adamant that I was going to do an academic degree.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:37.039
They wanted me to study law and get a proper job and able to support myself.
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.759
And how did they feel when you said I want to do fine art?
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:44.640
Um, they they didn't take it too well to the point that I lied to them for about a year.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.359
Really?
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.680
And you actually lied to them for a year and they thought you were doing something a different degree.
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.359
It took a while to uh convince.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:54.559
It took a few um exposed life drawings to bring it to light.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:55.200
Really?
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:55.839
Yeah.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.359
It took it took a while.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:03.519
But then it wasn't accepted until I got my first job after university, really, because it was like, well, what are you gonna do?
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.160
You're gonna paint walls?
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:04.799
What are you gonna do?
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:06.079
You're gonna what are you gonna do with this?
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:06.240
Right.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.279
Fine art degree.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.880
You know, you're gonna do some pictures in your sketchbook, they're not gonna earn you any money.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:12.480
There was a lot of that.
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.960
I mean, you lied to them for a year, so you really I was scared.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:25.119
I understand that, but what I'm also trying to get at with the listeners is that you made certain sacrifices to follow your creative dream.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:25.839
I did.
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:26.559
I did.
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:32.400
And when you were very much under pressure to follow that like your siblings, that academic route.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:32.720
Yeah.
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:34.240
When you had to lie about it.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.880
But but everything works out for the best in the end.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.559
So this time with Noah, you're on your own.
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:45.519
The challenges are there, you're doing anything you can.
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:46.400
Yep.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:50.400
To put food on the table, keep a roof over his head.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.039
Yeah.
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.519
Keep yourselves healthy, sane.
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:53.920
Yeah.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.359
All of those things.
00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:00.079
So whilst I didn't know about all of his neurodiversities at this stage, I knew nothing about it.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.759
How did you end up noticing those things within?
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.079
I didn't really notice so much.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:11.440
So when he went to nursery in Birmingham, they pulled me to the side and said, Look, we think he's got some challenges.
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:21.599
And because I was so overwhelmed by moving to Birmingham, not having a home, not having any of the kind of basics, I was literally like, Look, I need to go to work for the two days that you have him.
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:22.960
I can't cope with anything else.
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:24.400
You do what you need to do, kind of thing.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:32.160
And left it to the nursery, who then handed it over to the school, and they started to seek sort of diagnosis or assessment for his autism.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.839
That was the first thing that they picked up on.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.119
Were they explaining to you how it was manifesting within him?
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:38.960
No, there was nothing.
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:40.799
I didn't know anything about autism.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.279
I didn't know anything about neurodiversities.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.880
It was just completely new to me.
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:48.000
I just thought this child doesn't speak and he's just a boy.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.519
Maybe he's just going to take a bit longer.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.200
How long was he non-verbal for?
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.039
About five years, maybe five years and a half.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:53.200
Yeah.
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:54.720
That must have been quite concerning.
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.000
It was upsetting.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:56.880
It was upsetting.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:01.519
I had a three-year-old nephew that could speak and do everything, but my son couldn't.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.079
And I was looking for reasons why he couldn't.
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.720
And it was like, oh, maybe it's because he's not around other children.
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:12.079
Maybe it's because he's always with me and other adults, that he doesn't feel like he needs to play with other kids.
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:13.839
And he wasn't very good at playing with children.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.039
He was always quite engaging with adults, but not so much with children.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.240
I didn't think anything of it.
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.279
I thought it was just, I don't know, I've got no comparable.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:26.240
So and not another sort of not a partner that you can bounce things off, talk about your child together.
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.519
That's a lot of pressure, isn't it?
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:27.920
Yeah.
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:29.200
For you, I'm talking about.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.759
I mean, I'm I wonder how Noah must have been coping, but for yourself, that must be.
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:38.720
It was hard, but looking back, I didn't realise it was hard because I just thought that's what you did.
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:39.599
So I just did it.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.960
I suppose hindsight's such a crazy thing, isn't it?
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:52.079
When you look back and now we live in a time of neurodivergence, information is quite readily available for people and it's out there.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:57.599
So creativity and all of that sort of stuff just takes a complete side note.
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.799
And the focus for the next what 10 years is Noah.
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:11.680
So what are you what are you doing in that time yourself when you're focused on Noah and trying to raise him with his challenges?
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:25.920
I think I came to the point where I very slowly and resentfully, I'll put my hand up to that, realised that I was going to be his like sole parent, and I was completely responsible for everything that went into him.
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.200
And then I just, it was like, nah, this is my mission.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:35.119
This is my 100% mission to make sure that this little boy has all the nutrients that he needs.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:38.319
And I don't mean, you know, things he eats a bit like the way he's brought up.
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:39.680
All the inputs are possibly.
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.920
Noah drove me to do what I was doing.
00:30:48.160 --> 00:31:01.039
I struggled for so long with I just want to go back to my industry, I want to go back to my career, but I've got to be responsible for this little guy who I want to be responsible for, but quite rightly I should have some help in this, but I don't.
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.240
So I was quite resentful for our relationship for a long period of time.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:11.680
That's like there was this love-hate thing going on for this guy, this little thing is stopping me doing the career that I love, all these creative things that I love.
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:13.279
Yeah, which was bizarre.
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:20.880
And then it got to the stage where I think no was about seven, and he started getting really upset and saying, Mummy, I'm stopping from doing what you love doing.
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.240
And I'm he was picking up.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:23.519
He was picking up on this.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:28.799
And I it took a couple of times, and I was like, Hold on, I'm doing this all completely wrong.
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.559
He should never feel like that.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:32.480
He should not feel this at all.
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.359
What am I doing that's making him feel like this?
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:39.440
What was it that you felt that you were doing that he might have been picking up on?
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:52.240
I just think maybe conversations I was having quite openly with friends and family and things, not considering that he was actually taking this in and not realizing the impact it was having on him because he was starting to understand.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.160
I think he's always understood, but wasn't as vocal or verbal.
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:02.000
And seeing him upset, saying, I really want you to do what you want to do and you have to look after me.
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:04.480
It was God, that must have been heartbreaking.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:05.920
Yeah, really hard.
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.359
And we're so close.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.000
We would be naturally because we're all always together.
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.400
That was probably the turning point of I realised.
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.440
I was like, no, this guy should never feel like this.
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:23.119
I am everything to him, and I need to be, you know, until he's old enough, until sort of the tables turn, so to speak.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.160
He needs to be made to feel like he's wanted and loved.
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:32.319
He's already feeling like he's not wanted and loved by his father, and I can't also reflect that on him.
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.720
That's just awful, and that's not what I'm about at all.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:41.440
And that's that was never my intention, but somehow it was showing and I wasn't aware.
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.960
So was that then the catalyst for you to go right?
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.759
What is it that I want to be doing?
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.480
That must have had a massive impact on you.
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:51.119
Yeah.
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:58.400
So from that moment on, did you want to sort of change that to set an example to him almost as well?
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:10.160
Yeah, I wanted to show him that as a parent, you do whatever you need to do to protect your child and set them up for a good future, or the best of what you can do, because that's all we can do.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:14.000
So I had to rethink what I was going to do with work and stuff like that again.
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:20.160
And at this point, are you still just dipping into freelance things to sort of get money essentially?
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:21.680
Yeah, essentially pay the way.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.119
Essentially, yeah.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.720
And then I looked at another option.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.720
I was at a friend's dinner party and I was just talking about what I was doing and stuff.
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:34.400
She's like, sounds really demanding, but what have you as soon as you're multilingual, have you thought about doing a bit of translation work?
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.319
Because it's literally on your doorstep.
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.640
And I was sort of like, What do you mean?
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:46.079
It's like something I can do as another extra activity, which meant I didn't have to take any homework home or finish things at home.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:47.519
This was quite important, right?
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:53.680
So you used your multilingualists, um were a Bengali translator and interpreter, right?
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:54.240
Exactly.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:58.160
And that's something like you say, it's not defined by anything, it's a skill.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:33:59.440
Leave it at work, yeah.
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.000
It's a skill, you leave it at work at the end of the day.
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:02.480
Yeah.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:05.519
And then the focus can be on the child.
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:06.240
On your child.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:07.680
And my home life, yeah.
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.239
So that was a gate absolute game changer.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:20.719
Because with the photography work, I was going out to do a wedding or a shoot, and then I was editing all night, and then I was tired for the next day, and it was just like that constant vicious cycle.
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:26.159
Again, in hindsight, though, looking backwards, did Noah see you doing that translation job?
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:33.039
Did he consider that creative as what you wanted to do, or was that again just he sees it now as it was a means to an end?
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:44.079
I thoroughly enjoy doing translation work and interpreting work, and I was always really excited about it, meeting different people every day and helping them sort of understand medical language.
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.679
Was that the environment you were working in?
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.159
Yeah, I worked in the medical environment.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.280
So again, it was an environment I was not used to, no idea.
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:56.719
And it taught me a lot about the other kind of side of life.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:14.559
Like I worked in luxury interiors, luxury lifestyles, people, private medical care without any thought, and then working with patients are relying on the NHS and relying on someone to explain that they're dying or whatever it is.
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:16.320
Um Did you have to do stuff like that?
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:17.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:26.000
One of my first jobs, the very first one I took, literally had to explain to the guy that he'd been in a car crash and he didn't have long to live.
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:27.280
Oh my god.
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.119
That must leave its mark emotionally on you as well.
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:31.840
100%.
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:33.360
I don't think I'd ever forget that day.
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:37.360
I thought, oh, this is gonna be really I mean, I didn't know what I was going into.
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:44.000
But I thought, you know, it's an hour booking and I'm gonna go in, interpret some language, and leave.
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:49.760
Not thinking actually the depths of emotions that are involved in the situation like that.
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:59.760
There's a reason why you need a legal interpreter because they don't leave it up to the family because the family don't always want to tell the relative uncomfortable kind of news.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.840
But I remember leaving the hospital and phoning my sister going, I don't think I can do this.
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:05.679
They're just like just the first one.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:12.960
Maybe you need to like offload and speak to the company you're working for, but they'll I'm sure they'll have someone that you can speak to, because this must happen every day.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.760
And then I thought, no, you know what, I'm not gonna be defeated by this.
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.559
This is so weak of me to just throw the towel in after the first job.
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.920
Did you feel that you're weak?
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:21.760
Yeah, I felt like I couldn't do it.
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:28.400
But then I also felt, hold on, I've got this unique skill, and this vulnerable person is lying there.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.400
And if I hadn't been there, he wouldn't have known what was happening.
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.599
And he has a hundred percent right to know what's happening to him.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.599
It took a couple of weeks, and I then started to feel really passionate about it.
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:47.039
And like filling that gap where I've been in a foreign country when I don't understand what somebody's saying, and I just need to get to a destination.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:55.599
And I I know how vulnerable that makes you feel when you're in a space or environment and you don't know how things work and you don't understand what's going on.
00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:02.400
And that sort of reflecting back on myself and reflecting on the work I used to do before, I was like, oh my god, I this is my calling.
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.519
This is a hundred percent what I need to be doing right now, and I just threw myself into it.
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:15.280
It was that rewarding that you Yeah, I still do it in little bits and pieces up to now because it just always feels like I'm giving something back.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:23.840
It keeps you kind of like regulated with the real world, with like real things that are happening, and it's not all, like I say, fancy mountains.
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.440
That's what you say, as I say, fancy houses, luxury living, yeah.
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.039
To come back to tell some poor guy that they're about to pass away.
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:31.840
Yeah.
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.000
Is quite the balance, quite the leveling experience, right?
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:36.480
Yeah.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.079
And I think I needed it.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:39.039
Why?
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.840
Because that there was that part of me who just wanted to get back into my industry because I knew how it worked.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:49.199
I was comfortable, I knew what I was doing, I knew it was easy, I could earn money and I could be really comfortable.
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:55.920
But then with all these things that were happening in my home life, and then that just wasn't realistic though, was it?
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:58.960
You can't get back into initial 80 nowadays and all those sorts of places.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:37:59.840
Not at all.
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.159
And this job was like really super flexible.
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:08.559
Work around my child, around other creative work I was doing, and just the kind of emotional grounding it gave me.
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:14.960
It was just like this is perfect, this is the right time for this because it's actually going to teach me a lot about me being a parent as well.
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:22.079
Was there something about your lifestyle previously that how do I word this correctly?
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:29.440
That perhaps felt a bit selfish, and now this idea of giving back, it sort of feels a bit more balanced.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:30.639
Totally.
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:32.559
The timing was impeccable.
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:39.760
Like it just psychologically as well, f did it feel like something you needed to give you that some balance time.
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:40.719
That quiet time.
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:41.280
Yeah.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:44.719
Some I've got some purpose, I'm doing Yeah, yeah.
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.800
Does Noah speak Bengal?
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.079
He understands uh maybe five words.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:50.719
Really?
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:58.559
But then I guess I mean, if you're not growing up surrounded by it the whole time, I guess in your household everyone was speaking.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:00.400
Or parents, grandparents.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:06.159
Yeah, so for me, we went on a trip and stayed in Bangladesh for 18 months, and that's when I learned.
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.800
So before I went there, I didn't speak a word of Bangalore.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:16.239
My siblings who are older than me don't speak it as well as I do because they hadn't got that kind of lived-in experience of the language.
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:17.280
So yeah, it's funny.
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.679
And I as a creative, I love anything creative, so language.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:21.360
I'm just like, you know, give me a lot of things.
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.639
Do you think you found that easier as a creative to pick up the language?
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:29.280
Because there I can only anecdotally speak, I speak a little bit of Spanish.
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:29.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:39.519
But my stepfather, who is an academic, has tried to learn Spanish, and it and he it's very difficult for him because he wants to learn every single verb ending, wants to learn every single structure.
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:40.079
Yeah.
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:48.800
And there's something about an academic that's like you can learn all that, but it doesn't be making mistakes, having conversations, throwing yourself into them without a bit of fear.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:49.599
Yeah.
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:50.000
Yeah.
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:51.280
That's interesting.
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:54.639
Yeah, no, I love language, and I'll try and pick up bits and pieces.
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:59.199
I know bits of Spanish and French and lots of other countries where I've been to, I'll try and pick up something.
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:04.000
And I think having the kind of baseline of knowing Bangla, it's so similar to so many other languages.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:12.159
And when you go to the countries that are surrounding that country, you always recognize words and phrases and even like mannerisms and whatever.
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:13.199
Is that how it works?
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.760
The structure of those languages in that region.
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:21.119
I mean, on I know French, Italian, Spanish, it's all romantic, there's based in Latin and all those things.
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:22.960
And that's similar in that region.
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:34.480
Yeah, so Bang was based on Sanskrit, so it's like very close to like Hindi, but also relates to like some Thai and Burmese, and it's all kind of a blur.
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:40.719
And I think if you know baseline or for language really well, then you can grapple the surrounding languages.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.639
Yeah, no, it is cool.
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.519
And like you say, rewarding for you to find.
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:56.960
I don't want to say your purpose because I feel like you've found that later with creativity, but if you were feeling a bit lost in the world, I think, like you say, that that grounding element to it is pretty cool.
00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:57.840
Yeah, it is.
00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:58.719
It's definitely cool.
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:04.239
I just felt every time I went to meet a patient, like they somehow became part of my family or something.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:09.519
Like I didn't have a chance to use my mother tongue anywhere else until I had this got this job.
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:14.559
And it was like, hold on a second, because even to my brothers and sisters never speaking Bengali, they always speak in English.
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.000
Or we banglish.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.440
It was like a bit of both.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:19.519
Banglish and banglish, yeah, I like that.
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:27.199
So yeah, but I never really had the chance to like exercise it properly, and that gave me that opportunity, and I used to absolutely love it.
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.840
Like, I'd go to my parents and saying all these words, I'm like, You're actually talking to him.
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:35.840
But really, yeah, I know it is cool.
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.440
What's your creative practice looking like at this point then?
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.840
Because you said that creativity almost took a it did take a back seat.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.920
Noah surviving, putting food on the table, roof over the head, clothes on your back.
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:49.199
That was the priority.
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:50.960
What are you feeling at this?
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:52.960
Because you are inherently a creative person.
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:53.440
Yeah.
00:41:54.639 --> 00:42:02.320
Going back to that conversation that Noah had, because I'm trying to get to the grips of what your creative practice around that time looked like.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:11.039
I mean, you said you found a grounding, you found a purpose, but after that conversation you had with Noah about mummy's not doing what she wants to do.
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.079
Do you think he maybe saw a shift in that?
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:16.239
Or did you start creating a little bit more?
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:17.760
Yeah, I think definitely.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:27.599
I think I started to take on more local residential projects with doing so back using the design skills that you design you using the design skills, but having the balance of having the interpreting work.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:34.480
And I felt like that was probably in more of my recent years, the more kind of like balanced life.
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:47.280
So I was still working on really high-end residential properties, but I had this interpreting work to balance it out, and the connections that I was making with having that kind of in my soul were different to how it was 10 years before that.
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:52.320
Where it is very fast-paced and very like, you know, um I don't know.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.519
What do you mean by that?
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:59.360
The the translation interpreter job almost slowed you down a bit in terms of your design work as well?
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:11.280
Yeah, it slowed me down and actually made me appreciate the skills and the connections that I'd made from being in interiors previously.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:21.440
And it made me realise that I didn't work want to work for a certain type of client, that I actually wanted to work for people that were nice and grounded in themselves.
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:22.239
I see.
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:28.719
So it wasn't just about oh, this Russian billionaire's come to me with their money, but he's actually a war criminal, so I don't want to work for a lot of people.
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.840
Well, yeah, yeah, there was there there was some of that.
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.639
Oh, yeah.
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:33.679
There was some of that.
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.880
We won't go too far into that in case we end up on a list of some sort.
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:38.000
Exactly.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:41.199
It taught me to be more selective about the people that I work with.
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:43.199
It was almost like less is more.
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:53.280
And I got And balancing that with a little bit of financial security from the interpreting and all those sorts of things means it gives you that little bit of more freedom.
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:54.000
Exactly.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:59.599
And being able to work with a with the right type of client, you can work at a different pace in a different style.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.519
And it can be more almost a bit more family-like.
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:08.960
So yeah, that was like COVID when I worked on a couple of bigger projects.
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:10.719
Before we get to COVID.
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:11.280
Yeah.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:16.079
Before COVID, you went through again elevating in a challenge.
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:21.360
You had some sort of battle about wanting to homeschool Noah that you had to go through.
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.280
Yeah, I realised the school that Noah was in wasn't serving him very well.
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:26.800
Due to his neurodivergence.
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:39.280
Due to his neurodiversity, and you know, completely appreciate funding at schools and what resources I have in the mainstream schools is really challenging for the teachers and sort of how everyone's managed.
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:45.440
It wasn't until we had lockdown that I realised that I was doing something massively wrong for Noah in terms of education.
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.599
Say more, what do you mean what made you feel like it was wrong?
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:55.360
So we had our challenges and it was going back and forth from school, but nothing was actually being resolved.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:57.440
And I was turning a blind eye to it a little bit.
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:03.199
And I was kind of putting my trust into the system, thinking it's a school, and they're gonna want the best for my child.
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:15.920
But it turned out that wasn't the case, and they may not have had all the resources that they needed, but they were actually just dimming this little boy and leaving him outside the classroom and saying that he wasn't able to learn.
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:21.599
Where I did know different because I brought him up, but I know what he's able to do and what he's not able to do.
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:30.719
And it's when I started, when we started the sort of the first period of COVID where it was locked down and the kids were being sent work from school to do at home.
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:33.760
They'd have like bronze, silver, and gold to do.
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.320
And I just thought it meant you do bronze, silver, and gold.
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.480
You start with the bronze to do the stuff and then you do the gold.
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.000
So I just handed it to him and said, Oh, here you go, this is your work for the day.
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:46.239
And we'd both start like nine o'clock and by a quarter past ten and be like, I've finished everything.
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.000
And I was like, What do you mean you've finished everything?
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:48.639
There's loads of work.
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:50.880
And he's like, I've done the bronze and the gold and the silver.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.079
And I was like, Oh.
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:54.639
And I check it through and I was like, There's nothing wrong with it.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:56.639
Why are they saying that he can't learn?
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.559
Why he's not grappling any of it?
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:00.239
Well, what's actually going on here?
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.199
So I spoke to a few people at school, Zenko, etc.
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:06.960
And I was like, This is his work, this is what he's done.
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:08.880
And she sort of said, Well, are you helping him?
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:11.199
I was like, I haven't got a clue what this is.
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:13.360
You know, like it's taught so differently.
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.519
I don't I don't know what half of this stuff is.
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.039
And they were like, Well, he's not able to do it at school, blah blah blah, whatever.
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:25.360
And I was like, Well, he seems to be perfectly capable of doing it at home, so there is something missing in this equation.
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.760
And I was like, right, I want to have him assessed for his autism.
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:33.280
And she just point blank went, No, he doesn't need an assessment.
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.679
No, but you're also telling me that you're leaving him outside the classroom so he's not able to learn.
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:41.199
So there's something here that's not been dealt with.
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.960
Cut long story short, I had to go through all the assessment process myself.
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.920
It kept getting rejected, had to keep appealing.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.079
It went to court, it went to tribunal.
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:56.400
We had to represent ourselves through this to get him removed from that school to then put him into another school.
00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:59.920
But in that interim period, he had to be homeschooled because he had no school to go to.
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:00.320
Right.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:03.440
So yeah, that COVID was another challenge then.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:07.599
COVID was intense, like not a seven-day week work.
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:08.320
Wow.
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:17.840
There was no sort of furlough, there was no anything, and I'd got this huge project I was working on at the same time, and this legal battle to fight online because nobody was face to face with anything.
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:19.519
Did you feel overwhelmed?
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:20.639
Incredibly.
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:22.639
I think that's the most overwhelmed I've been in my life.
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:23.199
Really?
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:24.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:28.239
Even past having the new baby and being on your own.
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:29.679
That was something else.
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.599
That was literally something else.
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:32.320
Wow.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.800
Yeah.
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:35.199
That sounds pretty, pretty intense.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:37.840
But COVID's also an interesting time, isn't it?
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:42.079
Because among the other challenges, didn't you get quite ill?
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:42.639
I did.
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:44.400
I got COVID and I didn't recover.
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:51.360
I had long COVID for a long time and then developed an autoimmune disease and a a little problem with my heart and stuff.
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:53.599
But I survived COVID, is the way I look at it now.
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:54.400
I was like, you know what?
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.840
It could have taken me and it didn't.
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.760
I fought through it and I'm working on still getting better and improving.
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:02.239
But it meant I had to change what I was doing in terms of career.
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:02.960
I wasn't going to go back.
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:05.280
You were bedbound and everything, weren't you?
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:05.840
I was.
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah, I couldn't get out of bed, couldn't feel my legs, couldn't function, couldn't do things with my hands.
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:22.480
It was just my whole body was And as a mum trying to raise a young man in the world, trying to go through all this stuff in courts and tribunals to get him homeschooled or put into a different school that suits his needs more.
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:23.119
Yeah.
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:24.400
Yeah, intense.
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.360
I mean, you are swimming through the shit.
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:32.960
Yeah, but again, shows once again to our listeners the elevation during these challenges.
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:35.679
None of these challenges have ever beaten you.
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:36.159
No.
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:37.199
They might feel obviously.
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.079
They've come close.
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:41.360
Yeah, but hindsight again, you can look back and go, shit, I did that.
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:41.519
Yeah.
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:42.559
I did that, and I got to do that.
00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:43.199
We do though.
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:44.159
I think we do that.
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:50.639
I think when we're faced with a challenge and there's no there's no other way to get through, you you get through, you find the strength and the attitude.
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:52.079
Yeah, exactly.
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:52.639
Exactly.
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:54.960
It's fight or flight, and you've just got to do it.
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.519
You never dream of being in these any of these situations.
00:48:57.599 --> 00:48:58.639
You never think it's gonna happen to you.
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.039
Things that happen in domestic violence, it happens to somebody else.
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:02.880
You read it in the papers, never happens to you.
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.199
Yeah, you know, it's somebody else's kid that's struggling with a school link, not yours.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:08.159
It's never you, is it?
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.440
Yeah, it's always somebody else until it's you, it's on your doorstep.
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.679
So bedbound, an autoimmune disease, you can't move your legs.
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:17.440
I mean pretty buggered.
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:23.599
I didn't want to say, but that sounds like, oh my god, that's so intense.
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:24.320
Yeah.
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:33.840
But yet, through all of this, through the challenge, there's something inside you that's saying, God, I'm not being as creative as I want to be here.
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:34.639
Yeah.
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.679
So with a bit of recovery and a bit of time, yeah.
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.639
Am I right in thinking this is where this is where ceramics.
00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:42.400
This is where we found ceramics.
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:43.039
It is.
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:50.000
I was sat in my living room with two of my friends, and they said, like, you can't sit at home doing nothing because it's not who you are.
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:55.119
It's not good for Noah to see you like this and feeling sorry for yourself and not being able to function.
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:57.039
We've booked a ceramic course.
00:49:57.199 --> 00:49:58.159
We just start next.
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:01.119
So it was actually a friend that booked it for you.
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:01.519
Yeah.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:02.559
That's very cool.
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.679
Yeah, it is very cool.
00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:09.280
Because that means you've got wonderful people in your life that are looking out for you and going, no, Aisha's not happy.
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:09.519
Yeah.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:10.480
Let's do something.
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:12.480
Rather than just going, meh.
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:13.039
Yeah.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.320
And it was that whole thing of like, I can't do that for myself.
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.280
I felt guilty.
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:19.840
It's like ceramic courses are quite expensive.
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.760
I can't spend that on me.
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:22.960
I need to spend it on my child.
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.039
And it, I'm not even earning that much at the moment.
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.559
So I need to, I can't, I can't possibly do that for me.
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.159
It's that whole like parental guilt, which I'm sure lots of parents feel.
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.159
It's a luxury to go and do something for yourself as a parent.
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:38.239
But it sounds like it was very needed.
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:39.119
It was needed.
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:40.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:43.119
And I'm very grateful for having amazing friends.
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:46.159
And yeah, they're literally like, no, it's done.
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:48.159
You know, no one's gonna be out of school.
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:52.000
So you've got zero excuse not to turn up and just get on with it.
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:54.639
I think for the first session, I was like, this is awful.
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:55.280
Oh, really?
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:56.719
It's so hard.
00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:02.800
I can't, you know, I can't wedge the clay because of the rheumatoid in my hands, let alone throw a pot.
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:05.920
And then everything was just flying off everywhere, and I was like, this is horrific.
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.719
Second session, I was sort of like, I'm not even gonna go.
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:11.599
And then I was like, no, come on, pull yourself together.
00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:13.119
Just take the pressure off.
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:15.519
It's not, you're not looking for an end product here.
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:16.719
Just go and have a play.
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.320
And I think it was like six weeks.
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.199
I kept going and I was just absolutely horrendous.
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.679
I thought I was creative and it was beating up my sort of sculptural background.
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:27.519
I was like, I can't, I just can't do it.
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:28.639
What is wrong?
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:35.920
So I said to my my tutor, I was like, look, this isn't gonna work for me, but I I don't want to leave the course without anything, so I'm just gonna hand build something.
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:37.440
She was like, Oh, yeah, sure.
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:38.320
All right, why not?
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:43.119
So I hand built this like monster cookie jar, which didn't fit together very well.
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:46.639
But I was like, I've got something, I've got I've achieved something from this six weeks.
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:49.119
Nothing else comes to this and I've got a cookie jar.
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:50.559
I've got it, yeah, exactly.
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:57.920
And then I was like, no, either I wasn't listening to her, or I'm just like so set in my ways and determined to learn everything by myself.
00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:59.280
Um did you feel that?
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:03.360
Did you think that you'd almost put some barriers up for yourself?
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:07.840
I think I got to like week four, and I was like, I don't think I'm even listening to her.
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.119
I think I'm just so cross with myself that I can't do it, that I'm just just trying to figure it out for myself.
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.280
And I was like, that's so silly.
00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:17.840
You know, she's you're sort of spoiling it for yourself.
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:18.559
Exactly.
00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:21.199
Giving you like IKEA instructions on how to do it.
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.559
And I'm just going, no, because I've never used a packet of Ikea instructions.
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:26.719
I build where it is without looking at anything.
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:31.360
So yeah, I was really frustrated and I was sitting online and I was like, I'm just gonna have a look at how much they are.
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.199
I was like, wow, they're like£5,000.
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:34.400
I can't afford that.
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:35.840
Sorry, what is five pounds?
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:36.159
The wheels.
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:37.840
Oh, sorry, the Potter's wheel is five.
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:41.360
And I was like, Oh, I can't afford one, I've got nowhere to put it either in my tiny little house.
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:52.400
And I went on the interesting, even after that sort of militantness of like, oh, I can't do this, but I'm gonna look for a potter's wheel until I can do this.
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:54.719
Yeah, but I hadn't even thought about doing it.
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.920
I was just like, oh, just gonna have a look to see how much they are kind of thing.
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:05.760
And then I found one on eBay for like chips, basically, and it wasn't like a professional one, it was like a Chinese bootleg version.
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:06.320
Okay.
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:10.880
Like what we would call like a Timu Potter's wheel or something like that back in the day.
00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:12.559
Yeah, and second hand on top of that.
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:14.079
So I was like, it might not even work.
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:14.639
Right.
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:20.480
But the impulse was still there to Yeah, I think it's that whole if I can't do it, why can't I do it?
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.039
And I need to be able to do it, I need to figure out how to do it.
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:24.880
Somewhere in the background.
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:30.239
So anyway, this wheel turned up, I bought some clay and I just started playing with clay in my living room.
00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:35.519
And Noah being the way he is, absolutely detested me being in even in my in our own houses.
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:36.239
It was like this is disgusting.
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.480
The change of space, the dirtiness, all those things.
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:39.360
This is disgusting.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:40.639
He stayed upstairs for two days.
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:41.440
Oh blessing.
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:45.920
Despite me saying I've cleaned everything, it's no, I'm not coming downstairs because it's disgusting.
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:47.119
So yeah.
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.880
And I was like, okay, I need to figure out how I'm gonna do this.
00:54:27.550 --> 00:54:34.349
Again, it's so interesting to me because you're sort of I see elements for myself, the creative in me.
00:54:34.429 --> 00:54:36.349
It's like the stubbornness.
00:54:36.909 --> 00:54:37.949
You don't want to be beaten.
00:54:38.110 --> 00:54:41.949
No, I can't do something, but I'll bloody learn how to do that.
00:54:42.429 --> 00:54:46.429
So you don't know that's the creative, the problem solver in you, I think.
00:54:46.590 --> 00:54:48.429
The only way out is through all of these things.
00:54:48.670 --> 00:54:49.070
Yeah.
00:54:49.389 --> 00:54:52.349
So you're making stuff at home, it's causing chaos.
00:54:52.510 --> 00:54:53.550
Noah's not very happy.
00:54:53.789 --> 00:54:54.510
Not at all.
00:54:54.750 --> 00:54:56.829
So is this where you find Sun Dragon?
00:54:56.909 --> 00:54:57.150
Yes.
00:54:57.389 --> 00:55:02.110
The membership and they've got kilns, they've got wheels, they've got all the stuff that you can use.
00:55:02.190 --> 00:55:03.150
It's away from Noah.
00:55:03.230 --> 00:55:10.110
So yeah, yeah, it's away from our home, away where I can just go off and have my few hours a week or day, whatever.
00:55:10.349 --> 00:55:13.550
And yeah, I just begged and pleaded until they let me become a member.
00:55:13.630 --> 00:55:24.990
Because I think you're supposed to have X amount of courses behind you before they let you loose in their member studio where everything, all the chemicals are out, and it's you need to have a bit of knowledge that I begged and pleaded.
00:55:25.150 --> 00:55:27.710
And I was like, I just need to just need let me in.
00:55:29.470 --> 00:55:31.070
I need to be creative, and that was it.
00:55:31.230 --> 00:55:31.630
That was it.
00:55:31.710 --> 00:55:33.789
I created some stuff, started posting on Instagram.
00:55:34.030 --> 00:55:47.869
But is this where you feel like your ceramic work took a bit of a leap forward because you're getting that hands-on experience, you're saying beating out those frustrations of oh, I couldn't do this before, but now I can do this.
00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:49.710
Yeah, and now you're practicing it.
00:55:49.789 --> 00:55:52.510
Yeah, the skill sets coming in much further.
00:55:52.750 --> 00:55:56.030
And and we're quite late on, we're so it's what's that, 2020.
00:55:56.269 --> 00:55:56.909
23?
00:55:57.150 --> 00:55:57.630
After COVID.
00:55:58.750 --> 00:56:00.349
Yeah, so 2023 after COVID.
00:56:00.510 --> 00:56:00.990
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:01.150 --> 00:56:02.030
So not long ago.
00:56:02.269 --> 00:56:02.829
Not at all.
00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:05.710
And like you say, you start making some stuff, right?
00:56:05.949 --> 00:56:10.110
Start making some stuff, and doing what people do, putting a bit on social media here and there.
00:56:10.590 --> 00:56:11.710
Look at my little cup.
00:56:11.949 --> 00:56:18.670
Did you feel a bit like that at the moment, putting it out there going still feel like a bit of an imposter, but look at my ceramics that I'm working on.
00:56:19.070 --> 00:56:22.829
I think joining the community studio gave me some confidence.
00:56:22.990 --> 00:56:26.750
There's a shared amount of skills there, and like you could you could ask anybody, like, how do I do this?
00:56:26.829 --> 00:56:27.389
How do I do that?
00:56:27.550 --> 00:56:34.670
And somebody always wants to help you or wants to give you some information, even if you haven't asked for it because they know that you know that it's gonna help you.
00:56:34.829 --> 00:56:35.070
Yeah.
00:56:35.309 --> 00:56:42.269
And I started talking to more and more creative people, and it was the first time since being in Birmingham that actually come in contact with creatives.
00:56:42.590 --> 00:56:52.590
I guess because your focus had been you, Noah, family, roof overhead, all those things until you open yourself up to that creativity within a region.
00:56:52.829 --> 00:56:53.309
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:53.550 --> 00:56:54.349
You don't find it.
00:56:54.429 --> 00:57:04.510
Yeah, and spin, like I say, being surrounded by people in the in the uh community space, you pick you're picking up all those little bits which will the the doing.
00:57:04.670 --> 00:57:14.670
You are the classic example of what's that famous thing where the one class is asked to make one pot at the end of the semester, but then another class is asked to make as many different pots as they possibly can.
00:57:14.750 --> 00:57:15.389
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:15.550 --> 00:57:16.750
And they'll be graded at the end of it.
00:57:16.909 --> 00:57:22.190
And it's always the people that have made a hundred pots because they've ironed out mistakes, they've learned the technique.
00:57:22.269 --> 00:57:29.070
They're going, oh, yeah, the clay went flying off the potter's wheel at that point, or I didn't use the right wire to pull it off.
00:57:29.389 --> 00:57:31.150
All of those things because they're learning.
00:57:31.309 --> 00:57:31.789
Yeah.
00:57:32.030 --> 00:57:39.630
Yeah, that just opened me up to the creatives locally and just friendship groups that I couldn't have dreamt of.
00:57:39.789 --> 00:57:43.389
And that community, did that give you encouragement to start sharing the work you're doing?
00:57:43.710 --> 00:57:44.269
Yeah, absolutely.
00:57:44.429 --> 00:57:47.389
Because there is some trepidation behind that, especially for something that's new.
00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:48.110
Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:57:48.429 --> 00:57:54.750
Did you feel that trepidation about oh god, I'm putting my first like you said, my first little pot, even a bit patronizing around it with yourself.
00:57:54.909 --> 00:57:58.030
You don't mean that, but no, but it's quite daunting, I think.
00:57:58.190 --> 00:58:01.230
I think lots of artists feel like this, like sharing their work is really personal.
00:58:01.470 --> 00:58:02.429
Well, we've spoken about that.
00:58:02.670 --> 00:58:07.949
Making making and creating is an act of bravery in itself, especially if you you're going to share it.
00:58:08.269 --> 00:58:08.750
Exactly.
00:58:08.829 --> 00:58:17.389
And I think there was a huge element of that, like showing something, but not feeling sure about it and not really not even knowing that much about the medium or what you were actually doing.
00:58:17.550 --> 00:58:26.750
So there was little bits sort of coming through, and then uh someone I didn't actually know very well at the time sort of reached out and said, Oh, we do like a community market at Christmas.
00:58:26.829 --> 00:58:29.230
Um, you should bring your stuff along and sell it.
00:58:29.309 --> 00:58:30.190
And I was like, Sell it?
00:58:30.269 --> 00:58:30.990
You must be joking.
00:58:31.070 --> 00:58:31.710
I don't know what I'm doing.
00:58:31.789 --> 00:58:32.510
She's like, Oh, I love it.
00:58:32.670 --> 00:58:33.630
I want to buy some pieces.
00:58:34.110 --> 00:58:36.190
Did you feel like a hobby to you at that point?
00:58:36.349 --> 00:58:37.630
Well, I didn't know what it was, to be honest.
00:58:37.869 --> 00:58:40.990
It felt like mental healing and therapy.
00:58:41.150 --> 00:58:41.789
Yeah.
00:58:42.269 --> 00:58:48.110
I think that's why I got so into it because it was giving me quiet time and time to process my thoughts and just relax.
00:58:48.429 --> 00:58:54.030
Had you got past the fact of you worried earlier about it being this selfish act, doing something for yourself?
00:58:54.349 --> 00:58:54.429
Yeah.
00:58:54.670 --> 00:58:55.389
Are you sort of I mean?
00:58:55.789 --> 00:58:58.030
I realised how important it was for us as a family.
00:58:58.190 --> 00:58:58.429
Yeah.
00:58:58.590 --> 00:58:59.630
I realised how important it was.
00:59:00.030 --> 00:59:02.269
Well, if mum's not happy, Noah's never going to be happy.
00:59:02.510 --> 00:59:08.990
And what it was reflecting back to him, I was so happy and so engrossed in this new thing that I'd found, and there was no pressure.
00:59:09.070 --> 00:59:11.630
And did that feel like a great example to set him?
00:59:11.949 --> 00:59:16.750
Look, after the conversation we had about not doing the thing that I'm passionate about, look how passionate I am about this.
00:59:16.990 --> 00:59:17.789
Exactly, exactly.
00:59:17.869 --> 00:59:18.829
And he saw that straight away.
00:59:18.909 --> 00:59:19.150
Yeah.
00:59:19.309 --> 00:59:20.269
He saw that straight away.
00:59:20.429 --> 00:59:22.990
So much so that didn't he get involved with you with the markets?
00:59:23.150 --> 00:59:23.710
Yes, he did.
00:59:24.110 --> 00:59:25.070
It's quite big, right?
00:59:25.230 --> 00:59:25.550
It is.
00:59:25.630 --> 00:59:31.470
So I did my first market and I think I sold out 90% of the stuff, but the stuff we forgot to take out the suitcase.
00:59:31.710 --> 00:59:36.429
And going back to that imposterism that we speak about, did that just go, oh my god.
00:59:36.670 --> 00:59:37.389
I was stunned.
00:59:37.470 --> 00:59:39.070
I was like, these people must be crazy.
00:59:39.150 --> 00:59:39.710
What are they doing?
00:59:39.949 --> 00:59:41.550
It must have elevated your confidence, right?
00:59:41.710 --> 00:59:42.429
Yeah, no, totally.
00:59:42.510 --> 00:59:46.590
And I had Noah by my side doing kind of all the payments and things like that, because he likes all the techie bits.
00:59:46.670 --> 00:59:49.309
So he was like setting up the card machine, doing all the payments, you know.
00:59:49.630 --> 00:59:58.670
So great for both of you in a way, really feel confidence in creating, but also Noah in social skills, his confidence being in spaces that he probably doesn't know or would never been before.
00:59:58.909 --> 00:59:59.869
Exactly, exactly.
01:00:00.030 --> 01:00:12.429
But he could almost hide in the behind the table where he's doing these calculating bits, but he's also out and he's also now learning to speak to somebody who doesn't know and to even if to say, Oh, you know, it's£20 or whatever it is.
01:00:12.750 --> 01:00:13.949
Was that nice to watch for you?
01:00:14.030 --> 01:00:14.590
Yeah as a mum.
01:00:14.909 --> 01:00:15.630
It was really nice.
01:00:15.710 --> 01:00:22.590
And it was that this stage it became less about me wanting to make and sell stuff that actually, if I do this, then he's gonna do this.
01:00:22.829 --> 01:00:23.869
Because he actually said, didn't he?
01:00:23.949 --> 01:00:24.909
He said, Can we do that again?
01:00:25.070 --> 01:00:25.150
Yeah.
01:00:25.389 --> 01:00:27.710
And you're like, better make some more stuff then, right?
01:00:28.269 --> 01:00:29.949
It was it was him that said, Oh, let's do it again.
01:00:30.030 --> 01:00:30.429
That was really fun.
01:00:30.670 --> 01:00:35.470
That's so cool after those early conversations that he's seeing you, inspired, creative.
01:00:35.710 --> 01:00:38.670
He was part of it, and you're both part of it doing it together.
01:00:38.829 --> 01:00:40.429
Yeah, and he has been since.
01:00:40.590 --> 01:00:41.550
That's very cool.
01:00:41.710 --> 01:00:43.550
Yeah, yeah, it's really nice.
01:00:43.630 --> 01:00:45.470
It's really um warming.
01:00:45.869 --> 01:00:47.869
You didn't overthink it then at that point.
01:00:48.110 --> 01:00:51.470
It's just feeling, well, this is good for me, this is good for Noah.
01:00:51.630 --> 01:00:52.030
Yeah.
01:00:52.349 --> 01:00:56.110
Should we just apply for more stuff, do more markets, make more stuff?
01:00:56.349 --> 01:00:56.909
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:57.309 --> 01:00:59.869
I was just I wasn't making to any kind of like brief.
01:00:59.949 --> 01:01:04.429
I was just making whatever came out, whatever I felt like making, and just playing.
01:01:04.510 --> 01:01:12.909
And I hadn't played with material since like being at university in the first year, where you play and find out what materials you want to work with, what mediums you want to work with.
01:01:13.230 --> 01:01:19.150
So this first art market, was it the sort of stuff you're producing now, or was it a bit more basic?
01:01:19.550 --> 01:01:21.309
It's still quite similar.
01:01:21.470 --> 01:01:24.590
I mean, it was a lot smaller, and I was creating small pieces.
01:01:24.909 --> 01:01:28.909
And what I call them straight away was um objects of desire.
01:01:29.070 --> 01:01:34.190
So small, pocket-sized things, affordable, but desirable and usable.
01:01:34.349 --> 01:01:42.750
So I want them to be functional, look really cute on your table or your shelf or whatever, and be at a price point that anyone could accessible.
01:01:42.909 --> 01:01:44.510
Yeah, accessible, exactly.
01:01:44.829 --> 01:01:53.630
And that was always really important to me in art because as we know, art is often perceived for the elite, and it's like, no, I'm absolutely against that.
01:01:53.789 --> 01:01:55.550
That's not what it's for everybody.
01:01:55.710 --> 01:01:55.949
Yeah.
01:01:56.110 --> 01:02:03.389
And I suppose that was my first dabble after so many years of not producing any art, of going, this is art, and I want you to have that.
01:02:03.470 --> 01:02:07.949
I don't want that to be in a box somewhere, I want that to be in your home or want you to be using it.
01:02:08.590 --> 01:02:25.470
So even from the early stages, a lot of the work that I was making was architecturally inspired, very Bauhausy, very kind of modernist, with natural, the natural colour of the clay exposed, as well as all the kind of bright bold shapes and colours.
01:02:25.710 --> 01:02:27.710
And I think it's developed since then.
01:02:27.789 --> 01:02:31.230
Um I guess because you're still experimenting at that point as well.
01:02:31.550 --> 01:02:33.630
So essentially you might not know what's going to come out.
01:02:33.789 --> 01:02:34.190
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:34.269 --> 01:02:36.670
And I and I don't know what's going to come out in the next six months.
01:02:36.750 --> 01:02:37.550
I'm still playing.
01:02:37.789 --> 01:02:43.230
But within that, you've got that experience and you've developed a little bit of a style.
01:02:43.389 --> 01:02:43.630
Yes.
01:02:43.869 --> 01:02:48.190
I would I'd say you've developed a lot of a style in the work that you produce, which is very cool.
01:02:48.429 --> 01:02:48.590
Yeah.
01:02:48.829 --> 01:02:49.550
But let's go back.
01:02:49.710 --> 01:02:51.789
Your confidence must have grown during this time.
01:02:51.869 --> 01:02:59.070
You're doing more art markets, you're being surrounded by now a community of other creatives, must be helpful, lifting you up.
01:02:59.470 --> 01:02:59.949
Definitely.
01:03:00.110 --> 01:03:03.309
And you had this attitude of, I'm just gonna sort of apply to anything.
01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:04.190
Yeah.
01:03:04.590 --> 01:03:08.990
And I did, I just applied to anything that would come up just to see what happens.
01:03:09.230 --> 01:03:13.949
And more times than not, I'd get accepted, which then put the pressure on me.
01:03:14.030 --> 01:03:15.710
It's like, oh no, I've got to produce more artwork.
01:03:15.869 --> 01:03:17.869
Like, I've got to produce more work to be able to sell.
01:03:18.030 --> 01:03:19.309
Can we talk a little bit about that?
01:03:19.470 --> 01:03:25.789
Was that open calls or was it more just craft markets and things where you could be in your space with all of your own product?
01:03:25.949 --> 01:03:31.070
Because how does that work with ceramics as such with an open call as a piece of art?
01:03:31.309 --> 01:03:34.110
There's a mixture of stuff that I did.
01:03:34.269 --> 01:03:40.670
So everything that's happened has happened in 12 months, so it's been really intense and there's been lots and lots of different things.
01:03:40.909 --> 01:03:46.909
I'd apply for residences, the one I applied for at Sturchley Printworks and received that was a print one.
01:03:47.070 --> 01:03:57.630
And I wanted to involve my print with my ceramics as imprint onto the clay, the kind of architectural shapes and drawings that I used to do, or still do, onto clay, and mix those two mediums together.
01:03:57.789 --> 01:04:04.030
Because often screen print is considered as a flat 2D medium, and yet you've got ceramics, and I wanted to marry them both together.
01:04:04.190 --> 01:04:20.349
And then all my degree work was around the grey area between painting and sculpture, and where it actually meets in the middle, and where it's still viable and still considered as fine art, because you probably know paintings are considered as fine art, but sculpture is somewhere down that hierarchy.
01:04:20.750 --> 01:04:22.110
Same with yeah, photographies.
01:04:22.429 --> 01:04:24.750
Yeah, yeah, it's like second rate almost, isn't it?
01:04:24.909 --> 01:04:26.429
And like I've always had that.
01:04:27.230 --> 01:04:30.429
And there's definitely a sculptural element to the pieces that you create as well.
01:04:30.670 --> 01:04:31.869
Yeah, absolutely.
01:04:33.150 --> 01:04:36.670
So you're applying to all these different things, your confidence has grown.
01:04:37.230 --> 01:04:42.030
And this is where you saw a call out for small businesses in the UK, right?
01:04:42.269 --> 01:04:44.269
Right and again, like, oh, I'll just apply for this.
01:04:44.429 --> 01:04:45.550
Yeah, no thought given.
01:04:46.190 --> 01:04:47.550
Yeah, no thought given.
01:04:48.110 --> 01:04:54.750
And the next thing, you're approached by ITV's production staff to be a part of the TV show, yeah.
01:04:54.990 --> 01:05:00.829
Be your own boss, yeah, which we spoke about earlier with Holly Tucker, who is the founder of Not on the High Street.
01:05:01.070 --> 01:05:01.309
Correct.
01:05:01.389 --> 01:05:02.670
Yeah, but what's that like?
01:05:03.230 --> 01:05:03.789
Intense.
01:05:03.869 --> 01:05:04.670
It was really intense.
01:05:04.909 --> 01:05:09.789
And I suppose we should say when you got accepted for that, the filming started.
01:05:10.269 --> 01:05:11.150
Imminently, yeah.
01:05:11.389 --> 01:05:15.309
But not long after, was it literally a couple of days after your father had passed away?
01:05:15.470 --> 01:05:16.990
Yeah, literally a couple of days after my father passed away.
01:05:17.230 --> 01:05:19.389
There was quite a big inspiration in your life.
01:05:19.789 --> 01:05:21.389
Huge inspiration in my life.
01:05:21.949 --> 01:05:29.070
What on earth are you feeling in those moments where you're going through grief but yet you're still like shit?
01:05:29.309 --> 01:05:35.150
I've got this opportunity to be on a I honestly couldn't put it into words what was going through my mind and my heart.
01:05:35.470 --> 01:05:43.470
It was just it was like making the choice of do I crumble or do I roll over and fall?
01:05:43.869 --> 01:05:46.510
Or do you elevate in a challenge?
01:05:46.750 --> 01:05:47.550
I elevating a challenge.
01:05:47.789 --> 01:05:53.869
People are gonna get bored of me saying that, but you said it to me, and I I think it's so poignant for your story.
01:05:54.429 --> 01:06:06.510
In this situation of grief, you're still setting this incredible example to Noah, you're elevating yourself within a challenge, you're not being beaten, you're using all that resilience of all this stuff that's been in the past.
01:06:06.990 --> 01:06:14.750
You see the opportunity that comes with this TV show, and you called it a high-intensity distraction from grief.
01:06:15.070 --> 01:06:16.510
Yeah, it really was.
01:06:16.829 --> 01:06:26.030
And I am uh so grateful for when that landed because it was the right level of distraction that I needed.
01:06:26.429 --> 01:06:35.470
My father passed away, uh, could have just uh finished me because I was so close to my dad, and my dad has always been a huge inspiration and a huge kind of chilly.
01:06:36.110 --> 01:06:42.429
For me, in that no matter how ridiculous an idea I came up with, he was like, You need to go for it, you need to just do it.
01:06:42.590 --> 01:06:45.070
If it all falls apart, I'm gonna be there to catch you, don't worry.
01:06:45.150 --> 01:06:46.110
Just throw yourself at it.
01:06:46.190 --> 01:06:50.429
And if you believe in it yourself, you're gonna be able to make everybody else believe it.
01:06:50.670 --> 01:06:52.750
That was the crux of what he always taught me.
01:06:52.909 --> 01:07:01.869
If you 100% hand on your heart believe in something, you're gonna be able to make other people buy into that or believe it, but always stay true to yourself.
01:07:02.269 --> 01:07:14.429
And this ITV production company and Holly Tucker clearly saw something in your work which let's remind everyone, it's a matter of year and a half, a couple of years old of you doing ceramics.
01:07:14.590 --> 01:07:14.909
Yeah.
01:07:15.150 --> 01:07:19.550
They must have seen something within your work that they were like, yes, we wanna.
01:07:19.869 --> 01:07:22.829
Yeah, which I'm again I'm really super grateful for.
01:07:23.070 --> 01:07:25.550
And I had no idea where it was going.
01:07:25.789 --> 01:07:29.470
I saw a call out and I was like, fine, I'll just I think my card broken down.
01:07:29.550 --> 01:07:30.190
I was on the bus.
01:07:30.349 --> 01:07:34.429
I had the time to apply from my phone while on this bus journey to it.
01:07:34.750 --> 01:07:36.750
The universe is a strange one, so yeah.
01:07:36.990 --> 01:07:38.829
I mean, ordinarily, I wouldn't have seen it probably.
01:07:38.909 --> 01:07:42.750
I don't when I'm driving, I'm not scrolling through my Instagram, kind of being like, Oh, wasn't that so?
01:07:42.990 --> 01:07:43.470
What's this?
01:07:43.630 --> 01:07:44.990
Let's just have a little whatever.
01:07:45.150 --> 01:07:50.349
And when I got the call back from them saying, I would really like you to be on the show, or like we'd like to just have a chat with you.
01:07:50.429 --> 01:07:51.789
And I was like, Oh, yeah, it's just a chat.
01:07:52.030 --> 01:07:53.470
Next day they had a chat with me.
01:07:53.550 --> 01:07:56.510
And then two days later, it's like, oh, you did great on the screen test.
01:07:56.590 --> 01:07:57.550
And I was like, What screen test?
01:07:57.710 --> 01:07:59.710
They were like, Oh, that that chat we had, that was a screen test.
01:07:59.789 --> 01:08:01.869
And I was like, Oh, I thought that was just a chat.
01:08:02.269 --> 01:08:04.030
Like, you know, for the best.
01:08:04.190 --> 01:08:17.470
I was just like, Yeah, if you'd have known that was a test, I mean put a test on anything, you might have put too much pressure on yourself and been like I was yeah, it was bonkers because I was on my way to a festival and I was already like ready in my festival gear, and I was just like, This is really awkward, but anyway, it's just a quick chat.
01:08:17.550 --> 01:08:21.149
And they were like, Oh yeah, we think you like I said, you'd be great on TV.
01:08:21.229 --> 01:08:25.309
And I'm just like your festival gear, hell, because you're like, Wow, she's quirky, isn't she?
01:08:25.470 --> 01:08:26.989
This one, and it's bonkers.
01:08:27.389 --> 01:08:28.189
That's brilliant.
01:08:28.670 --> 01:08:30.349
Absolutely bonkers, but yeah, it's great.
01:08:30.590 --> 01:08:34.189
They just they were so supportive through the whole process.
01:08:34.429 --> 01:08:41.949
As soon as I started speaking to them, I'd said that my father was really poorly and there's a chance I might lose him, and I might need to pull out from this.
01:08:42.029 --> 01:08:46.109
And I just wanted to be upfront with them and tell them that anything can happen.
01:08:46.269 --> 01:08:49.470
I might need to leave the country to go be with my dad, all these things.
01:08:49.710 --> 01:08:51.789
So I was completely transparent with them about everything.
01:08:51.869 --> 01:08:58.270
And they were like, at any point, you don't want to do it or you feel uncomfortable, just say, and it's fine, we will take care of it.
01:08:58.590 --> 01:09:04.270
Throughout the whole process, they were absolutely amazing with me, checked in on with checked in on me every day.
01:09:04.430 --> 01:09:05.550
They were just so kind.
01:09:05.789 --> 01:09:08.989
And what does that process of being on a television show look like?
01:09:09.630 --> 01:09:12.350
God, intense, really intense.
01:09:12.510 --> 01:09:14.109
I've never done anything like that before.
01:09:14.270 --> 01:09:19.230
I'm not comfortable with being on camera, and there was just so many elements to it.
01:09:19.310 --> 01:09:28.189
It was yes, being on TV, but also the actual amount of work that needed to be produced for this TV show that we only we were only gonna shoot over one or two days.
01:09:28.510 --> 01:09:40.590
So all the different stages of my pottery had to be kind of staggered, so you staggered to film it, but also it all needed all need to be done ahead because we were only going to be filming on those two days.
01:09:40.750 --> 01:09:52.350
So it was immense amount of work I had to produce in say two weeks, and getting it all fired and glazed and painted and finished and designed and thought happened in such a short period of time.
01:09:52.510 --> 01:09:55.550
It was literally like while dealing with grief.
01:09:55.789 --> 01:09:56.989
While dealing with grief.
01:09:57.310 --> 01:10:01.869
And at this point I was losing my dad while I was doing a lot of this.
01:10:02.189 --> 01:10:04.270
Oh no, sorry, I had just left lost him.
01:10:04.350 --> 01:10:07.470
But like the prep before was me losing my dad.
01:10:07.869 --> 01:10:13.869
But if I hadn't had that as my distraction, I still haven't I'm not sure I've completely processed it now.
01:10:14.829 --> 01:10:17.550
But what would I be doing?
01:10:17.949 --> 01:10:20.909
It was like they said they were gonna start filming up our house.
01:10:21.310 --> 01:10:25.069
Like the day after my dad died, I was like, we need to deck the garden.
01:10:25.149 --> 01:10:34.909
So I just went into the garden, went to Celco, got all the like timber and started decking the garden on the way to my pottery studio so it all looked nice and tidy kind of thing.
01:10:34.989 --> 01:10:39.789
I mean, it was on my plan to do, but it wasn't my plan to do the day after my father passed away.
01:10:40.029 --> 01:10:56.989
But again, even that I found really grounding because my dad taught me carpentry skills, and while I was making the decking, I was constant thought, you know, about my dad and reminding myself of what he would say about how to cut an angle and we're safe and all this kind of stuff.
01:10:57.149 --> 01:10:58.829
He was with me through the whole process.
01:10:59.069 --> 01:11:01.470
So yeah, that it really helped me.
01:11:02.109 --> 01:11:05.550
And what do you think the TV show has done for you moving forward?
01:11:05.789 --> 01:11:08.829
Because we've spoken about it, you still haven't watched it, have you?
01:11:08.989 --> 01:11:09.230
No.
01:11:09.390 --> 01:11:10.829
It aired in November.
01:11:11.149 --> 01:11:11.550
November.
01:11:11.869 --> 01:11:12.989
And you still haven't watched it?
01:11:13.069 --> 01:11:13.230
No.
01:11:13.390 --> 01:11:14.189
And that's fine.
01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:14.670
Yeah.
01:11:14.829 --> 01:11:17.710
But Holly Tucker, can we talk a little bit about her?
01:11:17.869 --> 01:11:19.230
What have you learned from her?
01:11:19.470 --> 01:11:21.869
Someone who is a very successful businesswoman.
01:11:22.189 --> 01:11:28.989
She's incredibly resilient and powerful in the strength that she brings.
01:11:29.310 --> 01:11:35.470
She's a massive believer of small businesses, and she actually started her career.
01:11:35.630 --> 01:11:38.590
Her work was making wreaths from fruit.
01:11:38.670 --> 01:11:39.710
That's how she started.
01:11:40.029 --> 01:11:47.630
She took part in those markets that I've been doing the last year or so, and then obviously developed her business and strategized what she does.
01:11:47.710 --> 01:11:53.230
And that's what makes her good at what she does because she also started from the very, very first step.
01:11:53.470 --> 01:11:54.750
It wasn't given to her.
01:11:54.989 --> 01:11:57.789
She worked hard, she works hard every day for what she does.
01:11:57.949 --> 01:12:00.510
She believes in me and other small businesses.
01:12:00.829 --> 01:12:08.510
She's the first person to shout about you and remind you that you're brilliant and that she believes in you, and that doesn't matter.
01:12:10.750 --> 01:12:11.149
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:12:11.310 --> 01:12:11.789
Exactly.
01:12:11.949 --> 01:12:12.430
Exactly.
01:12:12.750 --> 01:12:13.710
Quite reassuring.
01:12:13.869 --> 01:12:14.909
Very reassuring.
01:12:15.149 --> 01:12:17.470
And what was it like after the show?
01:12:17.630 --> 01:12:19.630
Because there is that level of comparison.
01:12:19.789 --> 01:12:27.949
You're looking around at the other businesses on the show, yeah, and they're all branded up, and you see they've got all boxes and all this packaging and this, that, and the other.
01:12:28.029 --> 01:12:31.390
And at this point, Sketch Avenue wasn't Sketch Avenue, was it?
01:12:31.550 --> 01:12:33.069
You hadn't really done much branding.
01:12:33.149 --> 01:12:34.109
It was just you making it.
01:12:34.350 --> 01:12:35.149
It was sketchy.
01:12:35.230 --> 01:12:40.189
It was still, you know, it was still in sort of like initial stages.
01:12:40.590 --> 01:12:43.470
I was nowhere near an established business.
01:12:43.710 --> 01:12:49.069
I did a few markets and a few bits and pieces here and there, and that was that's all I'd been doing.
01:12:49.310 --> 01:12:57.789
So we only got introduced to the other businesses just before the program aired because they wanted to keep everything separate and exclusive.
01:12:58.029 --> 01:13:04.430
And it was literally like, oh my god, these people have been business for 20 years or 10 years, and they've got like 100,000 followers already.
01:13:04.510 --> 01:13:05.550
And you know, what on earth?
01:13:05.630 --> 01:13:12.350
I've got there's me with my thousand followers, not knowing, not even buying a branded cardboard box to put my stuff in.
01:13:12.590 --> 01:13:14.350
Didn't even have, I think had stickers.
01:13:14.430 --> 01:13:15.550
That was the only branding I had.
01:13:15.630 --> 01:13:19.149
I haven't got a website, and then having to do all that overnight.
01:13:19.390 --> 01:13:24.670
And that comparison of yourself to the rest of these businesses, did you feel like, oh my god, I'm so far behind?
01:13:24.909 --> 01:13:26.189
I felt so intimidated by it.
01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:38.829
I felt so it's also interesting to me that the production company in Holly Tucker saw something within you, the work that was like, oh, it doesn't matter that she hasn't got a brand, it doesn't matter that she hasn't got 100,000 followers.
01:13:39.069 --> 01:13:39.869
We want this person.
01:13:40.189 --> 01:13:45.789
Yeah, I think they definitely saw something in the product and their story behind the product and my belief in what I'm doing.
01:13:46.029 --> 01:13:56.909
I think it's really interesting that they picked people from all different stages of their business and showed how you can grow a business at different stages and how business develops at different stages.
01:13:56.989 --> 01:13:58.909
So you don't do the same thing consistently.
01:13:59.149 --> 01:14:05.390
You have to evolve and you have to change and you have to meet your market needs or your business needs or your family needs, whatever it might be.
01:14:05.789 --> 01:14:07.550
I think they they did that really well.
01:14:08.510 --> 01:14:26.430
And at this point of the TV show, had you developed this because we spoke very briefly at the beginning about how you saw that there was a bit of a gap in the market, or there wasn't ceramic stuff being built around neurodivergence and some of the issues that you'd realised with NOAA.
01:14:26.829 --> 01:14:27.069
Yeah.
01:14:27.390 --> 01:14:32.670
So you started designing these products that were a bit more ergonomically based, right?
01:14:32.989 --> 01:14:33.310
That's right.
01:14:33.470 --> 01:14:36.989
So is this the work that you were doing before the show?
01:14:37.310 --> 01:14:39.470
This was work before I was doing the show.
01:14:39.630 --> 01:14:42.670
And the ergonomic side of things developed quite quickly.
01:14:42.829 --> 01:14:48.670
But after the first market or so that I did, I looked at what we had in our cupboards and I was like, we don't even have any mugs.
01:14:48.829 --> 01:14:50.670
We don't have mugs because they're so awkward to hold.
01:14:50.829 --> 01:14:53.390
And I've got RA, Noah's got dyspraxia.
01:14:53.630 --> 01:14:54.350
Sorry, what's RA?
01:14:54.510 --> 01:14:55.470
Rheumatoid arthritis.
01:14:55.710 --> 01:14:56.430
Apologies, yeah.
01:14:56.590 --> 01:15:00.829
And we struggle with grip, comfort, and you just get a bowl or something because it's more convenient.
01:15:00.989 --> 01:15:04.670
I hate eating off a plate, I'd rather eat out of a big bowl, nothing's falling out, that kind of thing.
01:15:04.750 --> 01:15:08.510
And it was like I started to look at those elements of everyday life.
01:15:08.670 --> 01:15:14.109
And I wanted to create something for Noah initially that he would feel comfortable drinking out of.
01:15:14.270 --> 01:15:26.109
That wasn't a plastic cup or got a straw in it or something, something he could feel confident about and really appreciate the design element of it and just it be accessible for everybody.
01:15:26.270 --> 01:15:30.189
We don't have to have a sippy cup, a blue beaker with a white handle or whatever you get at the hospital.
01:15:30.350 --> 01:15:32.270
It's like, what why are we still in that era?
01:15:32.590 --> 01:15:33.470
What are we doing?
01:15:33.630 --> 01:15:34.989
It's insulting.
01:15:35.310 --> 01:15:38.750
But this is where those style elements of your work come in.
01:15:38.909 --> 01:15:39.550
Yeah.
01:15:39.789 --> 01:15:44.670
Because as as we say, we're not just throwing a mug with a bang average handle.
01:15:44.909 --> 01:15:45.949
No, we're altering the form.
01:15:46.270 --> 01:15:48.909
Altering the form, these look like mini sculptures.
01:15:48.989 --> 01:15:53.550
As we say, your background in sculpture, installation, architectural design.
01:15:53.949 --> 01:15:56.029
They're beautiful pieces of work.
01:15:56.270 --> 01:15:56.750
Thank you.
01:15:56.989 --> 01:16:01.470
Like you say, they're accessible pieces of artwork, but still usable ceramics.
01:16:01.789 --> 01:16:03.230
Yeah, that's always important.
01:16:03.390 --> 01:16:06.909
Having art that you can access, having art that you can use, you know.
01:16:07.230 --> 01:16:14.590
But having developed this style, essentially off the back of Noah, your room at all items, grip, all these different things.
01:16:14.750 --> 01:16:15.069
Yeah.
01:16:15.550 --> 01:16:17.310
You see a million different mugs.
01:16:17.630 --> 01:16:17.869
Yeah.
01:16:18.109 --> 01:16:19.630
But they weren't solving our problem.
01:16:20.029 --> 01:16:20.430
Exactly that.
01:16:20.670 --> 01:16:21.710
They weren't solving our problem.
01:16:21.949 --> 01:16:24.590
And that shows your creativity, which is the problem solving.
01:16:24.670 --> 01:16:24.829
Yeah.
01:16:25.069 --> 01:16:33.390
But as a result, has developed this style of work that just seems to set you apart from a lot of the other ceramicists that I've seen in the past.
01:16:33.630 --> 01:16:33.789
Yeah.
01:16:33.949 --> 01:16:35.550
There's a lot of talented people out there.
01:16:35.789 --> 01:16:36.829
Yeah, of course.
01:16:37.310 --> 01:16:37.869
Of course.
01:16:37.949 --> 01:16:42.909
And this is where you're trying to play it down a little bit, and I understand that, but I'm trying to big you up.
01:16:43.230 --> 01:16:43.710
Thank you.
01:16:44.029 --> 01:16:50.109
The show certainly shed light on what I was doing, and I have to say, it's been an amazing experience.
01:16:50.350 --> 01:16:54.350
Holly's advice has been to create a commercial product from the business side.
01:16:54.750 --> 01:16:57.710
I was going to ask how much because presumably the show's done now.
01:16:57.949 --> 01:16:59.149
Yeah, the show's done now.
01:16:59.390 --> 01:17:01.149
But do you still have contact with Holly?
01:17:01.230 --> 01:17:02.670
Is she still sort of a mentor?
01:17:02.829 --> 01:17:03.069
Yeah.
01:17:03.310 --> 01:17:05.230
And what have you this was my next question.
01:17:05.390 --> 01:17:09.710
What have you learned on what are the things you're taking forward from learning from the show?
01:17:10.029 --> 01:17:14.270
Like I say, I was an unestablished business, so to speak, last year.
01:17:14.510 --> 01:17:34.109
And what I have learnt from Holly, and I was going that way anyway, but I needed a bit of a push and guidance and someone to actually say, no, that's right, carry on doing this, or do this slightly differently, and to develop a more kind of commercial product, so to speak, that's accessible to everybody, not just the neurodiverse, not just the people that are into art, but even anybody.
01:17:34.270 --> 01:17:38.270
So we developed a line for Valentine's Day with classic song lyrics.
01:17:38.510 --> 01:17:40.350
I wasn't overly keen to start off with.
01:17:40.430 --> 01:17:42.909
But as did it feel too simplistic for you?
01:17:43.069 --> 01:17:43.550
It did.
01:17:44.029 --> 01:17:49.069
Because they're beautiful pieces, but they are, shall we say, more traditional ceramics.
01:17:49.230 --> 01:17:49.550
Yeah.
01:17:49.789 --> 01:17:52.189
But with elements of your quirkiness in, right?
01:17:52.350 --> 01:17:52.510
Yeah.
01:17:53.069 --> 01:17:54.109
Song lyrics you like.
01:17:54.350 --> 01:17:54.590
Yeah.
01:17:54.909 --> 01:17:57.310
Did the project a little bit about feminism?
01:17:57.390 --> 01:17:59.949
You'd talking about celebrated being called a MILF.
01:18:00.270 --> 01:18:01.789
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:18:02.029 --> 01:18:02.430
Exactly.
01:18:02.590 --> 01:18:07.550
So they're different things that have happened at different stages of developing what I'm doing.
01:18:08.109 --> 01:18:08.750
Yeah.
01:18:09.550 --> 01:18:12.829
The idea around that, that that these things sort of connect.
01:18:12.989 --> 01:18:16.989
Song lyrics, fun little things, laughter connects.
01:18:17.470 --> 01:18:22.909
Can we talk a little bit about some of the stuff you did around the MILF and the Yeah, I think there's a lot.
01:18:23.069 --> 01:18:27.310
So that all started last year for International Women's Day.
01:18:27.470 --> 01:18:31.310
So again, another gig I applied for, which I gratefully received.
01:18:31.470 --> 01:18:36.109
And I wanted to do something specifically for International Women's Day as part of my ceramics.
01:18:36.189 --> 01:18:45.069
And what I decided to do was just put words out there that were related to women that are often sometimes regarded as a negative.
01:18:45.470 --> 01:18:46.670
Such as, can you give us some advantage?
01:18:49.789 --> 01:18:52.270
Or things to do with HRT, we don't talk about it.
01:18:52.430 --> 01:18:56.590
And I wanted to, there's I'm perimenopausal and I don't know anything about it.
01:18:56.670 --> 01:18:58.590
There's nothing out there to support me.
01:18:58.750 --> 01:19:07.789
And in doing this, I was starting to have conversations with other women that were coming to my market store and saying, Oh, yeah, I'm a HRT champion because I've sussed it.
01:19:07.869 --> 01:19:08.829
I was like, How have you sussed it?
01:19:08.909 --> 01:19:09.470
What have you done?
01:19:09.550 --> 01:19:10.829
You know, why aren't we talking about this?
01:19:10.909 --> 01:19:11.550
Let's talk about this.
01:19:11.630 --> 01:19:17.149
And that's brought a whole load of friendships and conversations and collaborations, which has been great.
01:19:17.550 --> 01:19:22.750
And it's like, we don't talk about neurodiversity, we don't talk about the dopamine we need, dopamine we seek.
01:19:22.989 --> 01:19:25.149
It's not for everybody, but there's so many of us out there.
01:19:25.230 --> 01:19:26.909
It's like constantly seeking dopamine.
01:19:27.149 --> 01:19:28.270
Let's just put that out there.
01:19:28.430 --> 01:19:31.470
Let's just put that word out there and see what conversation it brings.
01:19:32.189 --> 01:19:38.510
Did you find that when you were doing our markets with this style of work, that it was perhaps starting more conversation?
01:19:38.829 --> 01:19:39.710
Absolutely.
01:19:39.949 --> 01:19:43.789
And I just loved it from the first collection I did.
01:19:43.949 --> 01:19:55.550
It just got people talking, it got people sharing, it got people starting to build communities where we're like, hold on, there's a new WhatsApp group about HRT and how it's affecting us and how to actually get it and how who we need to speak to.
01:19:55.630 --> 01:19:59.069
And it's this has all come from a little dish where it started a conversation.
01:19:59.149 --> 01:20:00.430
But that's how lots of things start.
01:20:00.590 --> 01:20:01.550
That's what art does, isn't it?
01:20:01.789 --> 01:20:04.510
Yeah, it starts conversations, brings people together.
01:20:05.390 --> 01:20:11.069
But did you get any opportunities off the back of the show that say weren't directly related?
01:20:11.390 --> 01:20:16.430
I have had a few people contact me about the accessibility side of my ceramics.
01:20:17.069 --> 01:20:19.390
In terms of the ergonomic nature of the ergonomic nature.
01:20:21.230 --> 01:20:21.710
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:20:21.789 --> 01:20:22.109
No, no.
01:20:22.189 --> 01:20:23.390
So absolutely, yes.
01:20:23.550 --> 01:20:29.869
So the ergonomic side, and obviously that's the heart of my ceramics, how we adapt to our objects every day.
01:20:30.029 --> 01:20:36.350
But I've had some really nice contacts and people kind of seeking out to have things custom made.
01:20:36.510 --> 01:20:50.270
And I think from the show, that's probably like the winner that I feel that has been the best thing for me, where I've developed a whole new range for a couple of clients who have MS and things and specifically designed for them to cope with their needs.
01:20:50.430 --> 01:20:50.989
Yeah, with MS.
01:20:51.630 --> 01:20:53.069
Exactly, exactly.
01:20:53.310 --> 01:20:54.270
And that fills my heart.
01:20:54.670 --> 01:20:56.750
I was gonna say, does that feel slightly more rewarding?
01:20:56.909 --> 01:20:57.789
Yeah, that's rewarding.
01:20:57.949 --> 01:21:00.909
That's what I want to be doing, that's what I love doing.
01:21:01.149 --> 01:21:02.510
It's time consuming.
01:21:02.670 --> 01:21:10.189
There's a lot of maths involved and weighing things up, measuring things out, sizes, grips, making sure it fits the person.
01:21:10.430 --> 01:21:14.350
Because we're all different, but you know, they've got a few more challenges than you and I.
01:21:14.590 --> 01:21:21.869
And working with a client like that to design things for them that change their life is just it's the most amazing feeling for me.
01:21:22.029 --> 01:21:29.470
It's just last week was amazing because I was getting pictures back of like them holding the cups and like how they're using it every day, and then things like that.
01:21:29.630 --> 01:21:31.550
This is what I want to be doing for the rest of my life.
01:21:31.630 --> 01:21:32.670
I don't need to retire from this.
01:21:32.989 --> 01:21:37.230
Amazing, and again, back to that amazing example that you're setting Noah as well now.
01:21:37.310 --> 01:21:48.750
Yeah, he's seeing his mum doing this thing that's inspiring him, yeah, helping others, yeah, using her creativity, and chopping and changing, like changing things up.
01:21:49.069 --> 01:21:50.989
Yeah, no, never stagnant.
01:21:51.149 --> 01:21:55.470
No, and is this a nice place to lead us on to some of your future plans?
01:21:55.869 --> 01:21:57.630
Uh what are my future plans?
01:21:59.869 --> 01:22:05.230
Getting these commissions, there's more markets, you're doing work with galleries now.
01:22:05.470 --> 01:22:06.350
Yeah, yeah.
01:22:06.590 --> 01:22:16.590
Are you feeling much more confident in your work, in yourself, as a result of this undeniable evidence that you've given yourself that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing?
01:22:16.829 --> 01:22:21.069
Yeah, I think this has definitely been the timing-wise the right time to be doing this.
01:22:21.149 --> 01:22:22.829
I don't think I'd be able to do this 20 years ago.
01:22:22.989 --> 01:22:25.869
I wouldn't have the knowledge and experience of life to be able to do this.
01:22:25.949 --> 01:22:29.149
I think there's a huge element of that in what I'm doing.
01:22:29.390 --> 01:22:41.550
A lot of my work is research intense in terms of learning about the different diversities, the different physical health problems people have and things like that.
01:22:41.789 --> 01:22:49.390
And I recently applied for a job at a school where they've got challenging needs for children.
01:22:49.710 --> 01:22:54.590
And this is now gonna form a huge part of my research and access to that research.
01:22:54.670 --> 01:23:12.590
And again, I think I don't know what's gonna happen in the future because anything can happen and it can take a diversion, but it all feels like it's steady at the moment and it's taking the right steps in the three or four things that I'm doing, and it's all kind of related and it comes together, and I'm really looking forward to what's gonna happen next.
01:23:13.069 --> 01:23:14.270
And what happens next?
01:23:14.430 --> 01:23:19.550
As I say, off the back of working with Holly Tucker, maybe perhaps some slightly more commercial ranges.
01:23:20.109 --> 01:23:26.029
I think there needs to be the balance, and because I like to have 20 things to work on at the same time, that's not gonna be a problem, hopefully.
01:23:26.430 --> 01:23:32.909
I think we need to have the commercial side because it's like the backbone of the business and it brings in a certain regular income.
01:23:33.149 --> 01:23:43.470
I think the art products that go into galleries have their own place too, and that gives me the time and the space to explore that exclusively without the pressure of that work needing to sell.
01:23:43.630 --> 01:23:46.270
So that work can go into exhibitions, etc.
01:23:46.670 --> 01:23:54.750
And then the kind of the middle product, which is specific to the ergonomic and people with health struggles or challenges.
01:23:54.989 --> 01:23:59.149
So I suppose there's three bits to it currently.
01:24:00.029 --> 01:24:03.550
And this new job's gonna help facilitate more of that, isn't it?
01:24:03.710 --> 01:24:07.390
Again, a bit like the translation was back in the day.
01:24:07.550 --> 01:24:23.470
It gives you that bit of stability, but you're within a world where you can do the research, it can help supplement, and I'm guessing they're gonna have lots of equipment and stuff that you can explore using, and and again, goes back to that nature of you helping these young people.
01:24:23.710 --> 01:24:25.949
Yeah, I think that's gonna be really lovely.
01:24:26.109 --> 01:24:31.069
And I think that is a little bit selfish as well, because it gives me so much back by helping these.
01:24:31.470 --> 01:24:35.069
Well, we talk there's there's no there's no selfless acts, but that's all right.
01:24:35.310 --> 01:24:35.869
That's all right.
01:24:35.949 --> 01:24:37.949
You're allowed to feel good for helping people.
01:24:38.189 --> 01:24:39.230
Yeah, I guess so.
01:24:39.390 --> 01:24:42.189
But I yeah, I think it's gonna be a really good experience.
01:24:42.350 --> 01:24:53.789
I think it's really gonna support my research really well, and having that hands-on experience day in, day out is I wouldn't be able to access that in any other way.
01:24:54.109 --> 01:24:56.270
How much time is that gonna take up for you?
01:24:56.510 --> 01:24:57.390
The teaching?
01:24:57.630 --> 01:25:00.430
So it'll be a couple of days, two or three days a week.
01:25:00.590 --> 01:25:01.069
Oh, that's cool.
01:25:01.149 --> 01:25:03.550
So you're still gonna have time to be able to do your own personal practices.
01:25:04.109 --> 01:25:04.829
Exactly, exactly.
01:25:04.909 --> 01:25:06.750
And I need that balance because otherwise it wouldn't work.
01:25:06.989 --> 01:25:07.310
Perfect.
01:25:07.470 --> 01:25:08.189
Yeah, it wouldn't work.
01:25:08.350 --> 01:25:10.189
And now Noah's a bit older.
01:25:10.590 --> 01:25:12.189
I mean, I know his challenges.
01:25:12.510 --> 01:25:14.989
Is he throwing a few pots or is it still too messy?
01:25:15.470 --> 01:25:16.189
Yeah, it's too messy for him.
01:25:16.590 --> 01:25:17.949
Does one everything too messy for him?
01:25:18.189 --> 01:25:19.710
Leave him in the accounts department, though.
01:25:19.789 --> 01:25:20.750
It sounds like he's good with the money.
01:25:20.989 --> 01:25:21.550
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:25:21.630 --> 01:25:23.710
He's good with money, he's definitely better with money than I am.
01:25:25.230 --> 01:25:27.149
Yeah, no, he's happy in the accounts department.
01:25:27.230 --> 01:25:28.510
He's also quite good at photography.
01:25:28.590 --> 01:25:29.230
So cool.
01:25:29.470 --> 01:25:36.750
I think the plan is over the summer he can do a lot more of the photos and edits and some of the kind of styled shoots and things like that.
01:25:36.909 --> 01:25:38.029
So very cool.
01:25:38.189 --> 01:25:38.989
Getting him involved.
01:25:39.310 --> 01:25:40.590
Yeah, in the art side of things.
01:25:40.670 --> 01:25:41.789
I think that'll be good.
01:25:42.109 --> 01:25:45.710
Is Noah showing any sort of creative aspirations?
01:25:46.590 --> 01:25:54.350
So at the moment, he's studying photography at school and creative media, as well as computer science and all the other kind of the ones you have to do.
01:25:54.750 --> 01:26:00.510
He's leaning more towards creative stuff at the moment, which is quite scary for me.
01:26:00.829 --> 01:26:02.350
Have the roles reversed now.
01:26:02.510 --> 01:26:02.829
Exactly.
01:26:03.069 --> 01:26:03.789
You're your parents.
01:26:03.949 --> 01:26:07.470
Don't go into that craving, it's not stable, you need to get a proper job.
01:26:07.789 --> 01:26:10.989
I find it so frightening that I'm turning into my parents.
01:26:11.069 --> 01:26:14.029
I'm like, no, just do computer science, be a computer programmer, you know.
01:26:14.189 --> 01:26:15.630
Um, and it's like, no, it's not fun.
01:26:15.710 --> 01:26:20.109
I'd rather be doing graphic design, it's more whatever, and it's scoring really high only is creative subjects.
01:26:20.270 --> 01:26:21.470
I'm just like, do you know what?
01:26:21.630 --> 01:26:25.310
You're gonna find what you love doing at the end of the day, and I'll always support that.
01:26:25.390 --> 01:26:25.710
Yeah.
01:26:25.949 --> 01:26:28.909
And if you when you don't love it, you find something else.
01:26:29.149 --> 01:26:30.109
Exactly.
01:26:30.430 --> 01:26:32.670
Any challenge, we always eliminate.
01:26:32.989 --> 01:26:37.149
Aisha, is there anything we haven't spoken about that you think we should?
01:26:37.390 --> 01:26:38.029
I don't know.
01:26:38.109 --> 01:26:39.789
I think we've spoken about quite a lot.
01:26:40.109 --> 01:26:47.149
I just it's one of those questions I always ask because I can only research people so much, and there might be some major element that I've missed out.
01:26:47.470 --> 01:26:49.390
No, I think we've covered quite a lot.
01:26:49.630 --> 01:26:55.149
I think creative communities are so important and creatives sharing other creatives.
01:26:55.390 --> 01:27:03.710
I used to feel like people are really quite reluctant to share other people's work out out of some sort of fear or something.
01:27:03.949 --> 01:27:08.590
To create communities and learn and continue to develop makes us better at what we do.
01:27:09.230 --> 01:27:10.829
There's a sound bite for you, people.
01:27:10.989 --> 01:27:12.750
Lovely, brilliant.
01:27:13.310 --> 01:27:16.670
So we do have a closing tradition on the Creative Noel Lamb podcast.
01:27:16.909 --> 01:27:27.149
We ask our guests to give us some sort of quote that resonates with you, and also someone in your world, someone in your network who you think might be an interesting guest to come on the podcast.
01:27:27.390 --> 01:27:30.590
So, over to you in any order you like.
01:27:30.909 --> 01:27:31.230
Okay.
01:27:31.710 --> 01:27:37.630
I think my closing quote will be she believed she could, so she did.
01:27:38.029 --> 01:27:40.670
Because I think that resonates well with what I've been doing.
01:27:40.989 --> 01:27:41.630
Certainly does.
01:27:41.789 --> 01:27:45.869
And do you always believe I don't think I stopped to consider believing anything.
01:27:45.949 --> 01:27:48.029
I just think I just rummage my way through it.
01:27:48.270 --> 01:27:49.710
The only way out is through, right?
01:27:49.789 --> 01:27:50.029
Yeah.
01:27:50.350 --> 01:27:50.430
Right.
01:27:50.829 --> 01:27:51.550
But that's pretty cool.
01:27:51.789 --> 01:27:53.630
That's that's yeah, maybe that should be the quote.
01:27:53.789 --> 01:27:54.750
The only way out is through.
01:27:55.069 --> 01:27:58.670
Either one is great and work specifically for your story.
01:27:58.829 --> 01:27:58.989
Yeah.
01:27:59.230 --> 01:28:03.869
And what about someone in your network that you think could be an interesting guest to come on a podcast?
01:28:04.189 --> 01:28:06.989
I think Natasha Tahim would be an interesting person.
01:28:07.230 --> 01:28:07.949
What does Natasha?
01:28:08.350 --> 01:28:16.829
She's an illustrator, primarily, but she's been hosting a queer Mendy night for about a year and a half or so and has brought together a lot of community.
01:28:18.189 --> 01:28:19.230
Mendy's like the henna.
01:28:19.710 --> 01:28:20.029
Oh, okay.
01:28:20.270 --> 01:28:22.350
South Asian henna that's applied on the hands.
01:28:22.510 --> 01:28:23.390
She's pretty cool.
01:28:23.550 --> 01:28:27.149
I think she'd bring some interesting dynamics to the podcast.
01:28:27.470 --> 01:28:28.189
Sounds interesting.
01:28:28.430 --> 01:28:32.750
And then there's another friend which you might consider, Sophie Chandler.
01:28:32.909 --> 01:28:35.550
She's a decorator and hairdresser.
01:28:36.350 --> 01:28:41.390
And she would bring a really interesting, both creative dynamic, both very creative powerhouse women.
01:28:41.630 --> 01:28:45.789
Have you two done work together with your interior skills and her interior skills?
01:28:46.029 --> 01:28:48.109
Not yet, but we've talked about collaborating in the future.
01:28:48.350 --> 01:28:48.750
There you go.
01:28:48.909 --> 01:28:49.869
Yeah, there you go.
01:28:50.270 --> 01:28:56.510
Well, Aisha, I guess all that's left to say is thank you so much for coming and telling your story on the podcast.
01:28:57.069 --> 01:28:57.949
Thank you for having me, Matt.
01:28:58.109 --> 01:28:58.670
It's been amazing.
01:28:58.909 --> 01:28:59.710
It's my absolute pleasure.
01:28:59.869 --> 01:29:07.789
And I hope everyone can be inspired through some of the challenges that you faced to just keep pushing forward.
01:29:08.109 --> 01:29:08.989
Yeah, absolutely.
01:29:09.390 --> 01:29:11.149
You believed you could, and you did.
01:29:11.310 --> 01:29:11.949
And I did.
01:29:12.109 --> 01:29:13.789
And yeah, keep doing what you're doing.
01:29:13.949 --> 01:29:14.430
Thank you so much.
01:29:14.670 --> 01:29:17.949
Sharing the spotlight on us the artist is all we're trying to do.
01:29:18.109 --> 01:29:18.670
Shine alive.
01:29:19.630 --> 01:29:21.390
Amazing, interesting, inspiring humans.
01:29:21.630 --> 01:29:23.390
So once again, Aisha, thank you.
01:29:23.470 --> 01:29:25.149
Everyone go and check out her work.
01:29:25.550 --> 01:29:26.590
Thanks very much, Matt.
01:29:26.670 --> 01:29:27.470
Thank you.
01:29:28.989 --> 01:29:32.109
Thanks for listening to the Creative Noahland podcast.
01:29:32.350 --> 01:29:39.789
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01:29:40.029 --> 01:29:47.869
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01:29:49.710 --> 01:29:57.230
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01:30:02.350 --> 01:30:07.149
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01:30:07.390 --> 01:30:14.350
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01:30:15.230 --> 01:30:21.149
Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way.
01:30:22.109 --> 01:30:24.590
And so, therefore, it's so important.