WEBVTT
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00:00:03.759These aren't just your typical buildings when we're talking about construction.
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00:00:07.440They are the literal backbone of our digital economy.
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00:00:15.359If you look at the data center capacity out there, there's there's roughly globally 50 gigawatts of capacity that's that's in operation.
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00:00:18.559Uh there's another 15 gigawatts that's currently in construction.
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00:00:26.160Three, four, five, six, seven thousand people that are coming in to build these factories and build these uh data centers.
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00:00:32.960You're seeing some of the hyperscalers are engaging to restart nuclear power plants that have been shut down.
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00:00:40.159This is the Construction Insiders Podcast.
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00:00:46.320I'm Jessica Bush, bringing you the newest trends and strategies in construction, essential to anyone in the industry.
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00:00:54.880Welcome to the Construction Insiders Podcast, where we dive deep into the trends, challenges, and innovations shaping our built environment.
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00:01:05.680So today we are going to explore one of the most rapidly changing, most dynamic sectors in our construction industry today.
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00:01:11.280We are going to be talking all things data centers, semiconductors, advanced technology.
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00:01:19.920Because, as many of you can assume or know, these aren't just your typical buildings when we're talking about construction.
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00:01:29.439They are the literal backbone of our digital economy, empowering everything from AI to cloud computing, and even the devices we use every day.
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00:01:43.920So with demand exploding, increased pressures, we wanted to bring in two of our top experts to really dive into how to successfully deliver these complex high-stakes projects.
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00:02:09.120So joining me today, we have Jeff Leeper, president of Worldwide Professional Solutions, a professional construction services company that really focuses on that advanced technology space from mission critical, energy, and semiconductor, as well as Tom Vinelli, senior director over at Cumming Group, with a focus on the advanced technologies sector as well.
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00:02:12.000So thank you, gentlemen, for taking your time today.
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00:02:13.520I look forward to this discussion.
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00:02:14.639Thanks, Jessica.
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00:02:15.199Thank you.
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00:02:18.719I have quite a few questions for you guys so we can get to the bottom of this.
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00:02:30.319And starting off, for those that really aren't tracking this specific type of build as much as you guys are, can we start with the big picture?
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00:02:34.400The unprecedented growth we're seeing in these facilities.
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00:02:43.840What's driving that growth, the demand, and the significance of this type of scale when we're talking about growth?
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00:02:48.639Can you guys start kind of painting that bigger picture before we jump into too many details here?
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00:02:51.439I'll jump in first from the data center space.
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00:03:04.560There's another 15 gigawatts that's currently in construction.
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00:03:10.560And when we take a step back and we look at what's in the pipeline for delivery right now, it's well over 100 gigawatts.
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00:03:14.400So you can see, and that's between now and the end of 2030.
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00:03:20.319Uh so basically here in the next three to four years, we're expecting to see exponential growth in the data center sector.
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00:03:26.479Uh that's obviously very, very heavily driven by the AI demand that we're all hearing about so much in the news right now.
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00:03:31.280Uh, and then of course, that then ties into where maybe I'll kick it over to Jeff for a little bit.
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00:03:40.240Yeah, the uh semiconductor uh business right now is booming both from a microprocessor perspective as well as from the memory perspective.
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00:03:50.639Both are needed to be deployed into a data center to bring the servers up, to bring up the traffic into a data center so that uh they can meet their customers' needs.
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00:04:02.479These customer needs are uh across the gamut from, again, as mentioned, AI, the cloud compute, banking, every aspect of industry and life down to the personal device you may use at your home.
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00:04:23.040It's a very interesting perspective, having been in the data center world before, and how that compute power is it's under so much demand, but the growth is again stimulating into semiconductor, along with the onshore of manufacturing in the US that's bringing more semiconductor companies into the US.
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00:04:27.279So we're seeing that very rapid expansion and demand in the US right now.
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00:04:33.360So I hate to bring things up that have we've talked about off-camera because we've had a lot of time together for this.
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00:04:44.000But Jeff, when we were talking earlier today, you mentioned kind of how data centers, semiconductors, power infrastructure, how they're all interconnected.
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00:04:52.399And I kind of wanted to bring that up on this episode here and talk about, you know, nothing seems to really exist in isolation.
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00:05:00.560Can you explain to us how they're feeding off of each other and what that means for a project from a from a project delivery standpoint?
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00:05:01.120Sure.
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00:05:02.240No, that's a great question.
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00:05:07.519Uh yeah, the semiconductor and data center both consume just massive amounts of power.
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00:05:13.120So as companies are coming in to build, it's all about land permits, power.
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00:05:18.399And in many cases, the semiconductor is a lot of water to a lesser degree within the data center.
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00:05:30.240But everybody's competing for all those resources and infrastructure, uh, both in terms of uh power generation, power distribution, and then power into their data center site or semiconductor site.
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00:05:32.240So they're buying for the same resources.
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00:05:38.160And throughout the US, we're seeing where markets are uh opening up, for example, down in Texas.
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00:05:48.800Uh power and is uh power availability out into more rural areas is driving a demand for projects and which brings in labor into those regions as well, which is a whole different topic by itself.
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00:05:51.360Like, don't jump ahead, we're gonna get there, believe me.
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00:05:53.600Because it is such a hot topic.
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00:05:58.399Um, and so talking about labor, Tom, um I know you're pretty passionate about that.
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00:06:00.399It's been a challenge, let's just say it.
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00:06:01.040Yes, it has.
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00:06:06.000Um, so how are we filling those critical roles as an industry?
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00:06:07.279Um, or how are we not?
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00:06:08.959Or what are we doing about it?
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00:06:19.120Um, because it is a very specialized um piece of knowledge that you have to have to be able to work on these very complex projects.
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00:06:25.680I I think there's several, several ways we're tackling that as a company and and probably by extension as an industry.
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00:06:38.879Um, I would just say first, as as we also talked about earlier today, we have an incredible internal talent acquisition team that is constantly assessing and looking for the right people to come and join our firm.
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00:06:39.360Yes.
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00:06:45.600Um, and I think that that is something we need to highlight uh that we are looking for help.
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00:06:46.319We need help.
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00:06:53.519There's a ton of opportunities out there, and we would highly encourage anybody that's uh interested in joining us to come take a look and get in touch.
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00:06:55.439Um, I would say that first.
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00:07:00.480Uh secondly, we yes, it is a very specialized industry.
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00:07:02.959However, uh at the end of the day, it is construction.
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00:07:06.879And we are a construction management firm and we're providing a professional service.
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00:07:20.800And uh so one thing we are doing is we are looking at internally how we can take people that maybe have not worked in a data center or maybe have not worked in a semiconductor fab, and but they have really good construction management experience.
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00:07:32.160They've been out in the field, they've done these things that uh are very, very important for these projects to be successful and bringing them across and teaching, training, developing.
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00:07:49.920Uh, and it's usually a very, very short ramp up uh to take somebody that has experience in, say, a life sciences project or a power plant or something like that that's very heavy in MEP, and we can bring them across and they can find success very quickly in a data center or a semiconductor fab or anything anything else that's related.
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00:08:01.120Uh, I would also highlight very quickly for folks that you know, we we recognize that the market right now, people have options, is what I'm trying to say.
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00:08:01.439Yeah.
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00:08:06.560And and we recognize that, you know, this is not we we don't own the market.
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00:08:08.319Nobody owns the market.
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00:08:12.240Uh we think though that we offer a wonderful place for people to come work.
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00:08:21.120We were recently certified as a great place to work uh at Cumming Group, and and we think that uh that's that's something everybody should know and and take a strong look at us.
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00:08:26.720And and not to plug us too much, but I have been here for quite a few years.
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00:08:35.360Um I mean it really comes down to the culture and the expertise and the growth and the opportunities um to move in our company.
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00:08:37.360And I think that has been really interesting.
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00:08:45.279And as this sector specifically grows and we need those talented individuals, um it is it's a wonderful place.
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00:08:46.399I'm still here.
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00:08:47.519We're all still here.
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00:08:48.720And Jeff, what about for you?
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00:08:55.039Because I know coming with WWPS from your perspective, labor, how is that how is that being managed or what are your pain points?
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00:08:56.639That's great, it's a great question.
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00:09:07.600Um internally, obviously we're we're newer to the newer to the cubby group, uh, but the the culture of the people is what uh at its core, it is who we are.
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00:09:13.919Um and it's it bringing people in who have a passion to learn and want to learn in new markets.
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00:09:16.159Uh we can teach construction, to be honest.
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00:09:21.120It's uh it's what I've been doing for more than 35 years, and I have a huge passion for it.
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00:09:24.559But how do we teach and grow that next generation of leaders in this space?
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00:09:29.440Project managers, uh construction managers, cost managers, and so forth.
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00:09:36.320Uh it's a it's an incredible opportunity for all of us as leaders uh in this space, and um it's uh an exciting time.
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00:09:44.559So the challenges that exist in this space um and the demand uh right now with this space, what makes somebody successful?
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00:09:47.519Because we do need new individuals coming into the space.
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00:09:50.720And what are the what are those success points look like as it risk management?
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00:09:51.679Is it creativity?
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00:09:56.799What are you guys looking for to have these these really high-stakes projects across the finish line?
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00:10:03.919For me, the ability to communicate is obviously one of the most important things uh that that's out there.
00:10:04.159 -->
00:10:07.759Uh, we are interfacing with multiple people on a daily basis.
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00:10:10.559You're working with a contractor, you're working with an owner.
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00:10:14.480Uh, everybody at the end of the day has a common goal to deliver a project.
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00:10:21.440However, there's slightly different, you know, uh uh goals when it comes to that and and how to get there.
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00:10:27.440And so that communication is super, super important to be able to connect the dots and drive a project forward.
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00:10:32.399Uh, I would also say very quickly before I hand it off to Jeff, uh, work ethic.
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00:10:43.759Honestly, I I've never claimed to be the smartest person in the room, but and I definitely don't think I am today sitting next to Jeff, but um uh but I am willing to work and I'll work very hard.
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00:10:57.440And and I think that the people that are on our team that come in and and join our team, if they're able to communicate, they're able to put the the time and the effort in and they're willing to learn and they're coachable and they're teachable, uh, there's tremendous opportunities out there for them right now.
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00:10:59.039Yeah, I I would agree.
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00:11:09.440I think that uh folks who are are coming in who just truly want to be a part of a great team and understanding that we want to value every voice in the room.
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00:11:12.639That is someone who's junior, who's never been exposed.
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00:11:21.360To be honest, I've often found that those are ones that bring the the best ideas because they've not been exposed and they're exploring, they're asking the question, why do you do it that way?
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00:11:23.200And it's it becomes a real powerful.
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00:11:26.320It's not I have 20 years of experience and you don't know yet.
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00:11:27.759So listen to me.
00:11:28.240 -->
00:11:29.759Conversely, you got to look at the other side.
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00:11:32.639That that individual's coming in really truly doesn't know.
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00:11:34.159How do I approach this problem?
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00:11:35.279Help me understand.
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00:11:42.960You know, candidly, I hired somebody in my previous life who had no construction experience and she only wanted to learn, wanted to be a project manager.
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00:11:45.440And I hired her and she soaked it up.
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00:11:48.960She just came in and she said, walked in the field, what's this?
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00:11:50.000That's rebar.
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00:11:51.200Okay, explain.
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00:12:00.080And it was so basic, but she was our biggest and and brightest, you know, bright spot if you own the group, because she was asking the questions.
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00:12:03.279And a lot of times the team would be like, I actually I'm not sure.
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00:12:05.279Yeah, and so I see the passion for learning.
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00:12:06.639Powerful, powerful.
00:12:06.879 -->
00:12:14.799So passion for learning, uh coming in a culture that embraces that and really empowers the team to think differently and bring solutions.
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00:12:18.240Because oftentimes we find where owners, this is the way we do it.
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00:12:21.440We've done it this way for 20 years, it's always gotten results.
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00:12:22.320The market's different.
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00:12:23.519And the market's very different.
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00:12:26.879100%.
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00:12:27.600100%.
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00:12:33.919And we're gonna get there, but I also wanted to talk about as we're kind of moving into the build discussion here, site planning.
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00:12:41.759So the critical elements involved with that in this space um schedule, costs, procurement.
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00:12:47.440I just I assume that site master planning is quite essential in this space.
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00:12:49.679Um what do you think about that?
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00:12:54.480Kind of what your Yeah, I think I site master planning starts very early.
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00:13:06.080It it starts with site selection and what in the industry you'll call site due diligence and looking at a piece of property that allows you to maximize the footprint of the facility that you're trying to build.
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00:13:14.960That site master plan carries through the entire evolution of that of that build, whether it be a data center or multiple data centers on a campus.
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00:13:23.600Uh, but having a team to come in and look at that, think about site logistics, where you're gonna put cranes, where you're gonna put a uh lunch tent for the craft.
00:13:23.679 -->
00:13:36.799And oftentimes these craft are numbering three, four, five, six, seven thousand people that are coming in to build these these factories and build these uh data centers, and things are running in parallel, which only adds to the the complexity.
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00:13:39.600You're building a mini city in these rule, essentially.
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00:13:47.679And in many cases, frankly, the number of craft that we and people we have on the site actually outnumbers the number of people in the town or the city, quite literally.
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00:13:49.039That paints quite a picture.
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00:13:50.080It does.
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00:13:53.840Okay, and so what about you know, what's impacting?
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00:13:57.840So we get the site, we get set, um, we get our mini-city developed.
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00:13:59.519What about the schedule?
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00:14:03.279Um, I mean, I'm assuming job safety in these more remote areas.
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00:14:06.960What is that all looking like in this space right now?
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00:14:22.879From a from a job safety perspective, uh, what we're seeing is that uh people are coming to the job site who may not have been on a semiconductor project, may not have been on a data center, and frankly, may not have worked for companies that value safety the way that we do.
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00:14:27.840The coming group, WWPS, and all of our affiliates, you know, safety is at its core.
00:14:27.919 -->
00:14:28.879It's the highest value.
00:14:28.960 -->
00:14:33.279We're talking about people who we want them, need them to go home safely every single day.
00:14:33.759 -->
00:14:41.360So the at its core, our programs and our leadership are focused on ensuring that just that they do go home safely every day.
00:14:41.759 -->
00:14:49.120I I would I would add, I mean, I've um prior to joining coming group, I spent 15 years roughly with a general contractor.
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00:14:52.080Um, and it really is it's zero accidents.
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00:14:54.159That that is the only acceptable number.
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00:14:59.360Uh, everybody goes home, everybody comes to work, there's no injuries, there's no accidents.
00:14:59.679 -->
00:15:06.879Uh you have to have that philosophy and you have to believe that that's attainable because if you don't believe that's attainable, then you're doing a disservice to to everyone out there.
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00:15:07.279Right.
00:15:07.360 -->
00:15:08.159And then it's not gonna happen.
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00:15:09.039And it's not gonna happen.
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00:15:10.639No, you have to strive for it.
00:15:11.360 -->
00:15:20.320So when we're we've got site selection, how about these this this space requires a lot of power, as we've talked about briefly?
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00:15:39.600What comes down to when we're talking about power planning and what creative solutions are you, the owners, how are we getting to these these places um with the the power needs that are just so critical I'll I'll jump in on this one.
00:15:39.759 -->
00:15:43.039Um I I we're seeing several things right now.
00:15:43.200 -->
00:15:48.639Um, and I'll touch on some different uh different avenues, and maybe maybe Jeff will chime in as well.
00:15:48.799 -->
00:15:50.559But uh nuclear is first.
00:15:50.799 -->
00:15:57.600Uh we're seeing some of the hyperscalers are engaging to restart nuclear power plants that have been shut down.
00:15:57.759 -->
00:16:06.399Uh so we're looking at creative solutions, or we're seeing the industry look at creative solutions like that to make sure that we are utilizing power as effectively as we can.
00:16:06.639 -->
00:16:13.919Uh I think the second piece of this is uh honestly, you you have now folks looking to build their own power plants.
00:16:14.320 -->
00:16:20.320Uh you have owners and developers that say, hey, we cannot go to the grid and get power.
00:16:20.559 -->
00:16:22.480We need to build our own power plant.
00:16:22.639 -->
00:16:27.279And we're gonna do it either, you know, we'll probably do it behind the meter, it may be off the grid.
00:16:27.600 -->
00:16:32.480But that is another way that is uh we're helping to ensure there's enough power out there.
00:16:32.559 -->
00:16:41.679Because if you look quite frankly, and I mentioned it earlier, uh, roughly 100 gigawatts at least that's in development right now, that number probably changes daily.
00:16:41.759 -->
00:16:44.399Uh, there's not that amount of power out there, right?
00:16:44.480 -->
00:16:46.000So there has to be a solution somewhere.
00:16:46.080 -->
00:16:59.679And the solutions are coming in the form of uh restarting nuclear power plants, uh, you know, doing your own bespoke, if you will, solutions on uh whether it be renewables, whether it be natural gas on your own, on your own property.
00:16:59.759 -->
00:17:03.279And like I said, maybe that's behind the meter, maybe that's off the grid.
00:17:03.440 -->
00:17:06.640Um, and you know, there's also renewables that play into that.
00:17:06.720 -->
00:17:09.359Uh, and maybe maybe I'll let Jeff touch on the renewable space.
00:17:09.440 -->
00:17:11.119I know that's close to his heart.
00:17:11.680 -->
00:17:12.559Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:12.880 -->
00:17:16.079I think all of what you touched on are 100% spot on.
00:17:16.240 -->
00:17:28.079Um, the sustainable energy, i.e., you know, wind turbines, um, solar, those two alone right there, you can see their solar farms are coming up all over the place, but they're still a very small amount.
00:17:28.160 -->
00:17:36.160The number of solar panels required, number of wind turbines required to generate the kind of power that Tom spoke about, you know, it's really astonishing.
00:17:36.240 -->
00:17:50.160You start to think about, you know, you're powering cities, the equivalent of cities, you know, major cities, you know, Seattle, start talking about LA or other, you know, cities where the amount of power that's being consumed by data center by semiconductor is off the charts.
00:17:50.240 -->
00:17:52.880So I think it's going to be a combination of all the above.
00:17:53.039 -->
00:17:56.640And uh the industry term right now is bring your own power, BYOP.
00:17:56.880 -->
00:17:59.680And uh seeing that pop up all over the place, actually.
00:17:59.839 -->
00:18:13.599And so uh where there isn't reliable power, uh, certainly in semiconductor or data center, both require a reliable, stable power supply that doesn't vary because it will affect the operation of the facilities.
00:18:13.839 -->
00:18:23.839And so each of those um uh companies that are out there are looking for and trying to secure the power, both from a developer's perspective or from an owner's perspective.
00:18:24.000 -->
00:18:30.160And again, as I said earlier, it's it's all about land power permits and in many cases water as well.
00:18:30.319 -->
00:18:32.559So having that secured is essential.
00:18:32.880 -->
00:18:44.079So I'm gonna stop you guys right there because the next kind of area I want to touch is about third-party developers and that land power permits topic because it is a pretty big one.
00:18:44.240 -->
00:18:49.920So let's take a pause right here, if that's okay, and we'll pick this conversation back up for part two.
00:18:50.559 -->
00:18:51.039Sure.
00:18:52.240 -->
00:19:00.400Check back in a few weeks as we continue our deep dive into data centers, semiconductors, and advanced technologies with insights from Jeff Lieber and Tom Finelli.
00:19:00.640 -->
00:19:07.200And don't forget to subscribe to the Construction Insiders Podcast so you're notified as soon as new episodes go live.
