Sam Kaplan

Blackberry Farm: So I started in the vineyards and then realized, you know, I want to become a winemaker. I said to myself one day, I was like, I want to do this. So I put my head down and I was like, you know, I just work my butt off. If you love what you're doing, you wake up every day jazz to jump out of bed and tackle it and learn and do what you're gonna do. Eventually that's where you can take wine to the next level. Welcome to the Blackberry Podcast, where we share stories, wisdom, and insight from the amazing people we get to meet and collaborate with here at Blackberry Farm. I'm Sarah Shabot and today I have ⁓ a co-host back, ⁓ Andy Shabot. He's our senior ⁓ vice president of food and beverage here at Blackberry Farm and Blackberry Mountain. And for those of you newly joining the podcast, ⁓ we share a last name as Andy is my husband. So if there's inside jokes, you'll know where we're going. ⁓ and And today's guest, I'm so excited to sit down and talk to one of the hottest winemakers on the California coast right now, Mr. Sam Kaplan. You really have brought some new energy and some new conversations to how wine is being made in California. And so we're excited to have you dive in with us today. You're here at the Smoky Mountain Table event, and we really sort of celebrate the land. and what it can bring for us. So thank you for being here. Thanks so much for having me. A bit of a a different a atypical journey becoming a winemaker in in California. So let's start back in Oklahoma and go from there. I I don't know that there are that many similarities between Tennessee and Oklahoma. But you know, rolling out here to Blackberry Farm for the first time, I just definitely had that off the beaten path. ⁓ I moved to Oklahoma ⁓ shortly after being born in actually Boston, ⁓ Massachusetts in Belmont and ⁓ moved right to Oklahoma where my dad thought it was a great idea to ⁓ buy a small little farm, if you will. ⁓ he was a doctor. My mother was an attorney at the time while she was, you know, out of law school. She was just getting started. They were young, ⁓ shall I say, like highly educated hippies moving into the heart of Oklahoma. Good group of those people in Boston at the time, I think. Yeah, that's right. There were there were some of those. So they moved out to Oklahoma. We had some had some cousins there. And ⁓ you know, I think a lot of sort of who I am and w what I became later in life was because of my my folks. So my dad, if there was anything that he needed or wanted or want to learn about, he He taught himself and he and he built and made with his hands. I love that. He was, you know, building computers when Hewlett Packard and Apple were making computers in their garage. Like he was doing it in the den. Really. He planted a little over a one acre vegetable garden, you know, farming everything organically. But you know, we grew all of our own food. We had chickens, we had geese, you know, we produced ⁓ all of that in-house. So it's like, you know, when you when you grow up with something, you don't know any different. So that's just how I grew up. He was just an inquisitive person. Yeah. And these days you can do all you know, you can go online and like, you know, go to YouTube university and figure things out. But what is he reading like the Victory Garden book or Yeah. Yeah, exactly. He would get all the early gardening books. ⁓ you know. And computer books. And computer books. ⁓ Computer books. Yeah. He was he you know, he taught him how to program in a couple of different com ⁓ languages and and ⁓ So I sort of, you know, grew up in that world. ⁓ he ⁓ ended up planting with his buddies a mostly French hybrid ⁓ vineyard in really in the clay in Oklahoma. Just hilarious. It wasn't huge, but you know, enough to get a a decent amount of wine off it. ⁓ Oklahoma State University was had planted ⁓ an experimental vinifera vineyard. Really. ⁓ but they had no plans for the fruit, you know. So my dad and all of his, you know, buddies. I don't want to say hippie doctor buddies, but they were all very like, you know, at the time they fit they they stood out in Oklahoma. They were kinda crunchy, you know, ⁓ awesome people. Are you I feel like there could there's some real my upbringing was a little similar to this. I mean ⁓ from New Hampshire, my parents ⁓ were a similar vibe. You know very similar vibe, I think. And my dad also if If he thought he could do it, he would do it. Yeah. You know, and it was very much like that's how I was brought up. And I still think I can do a lot of things that I've never done before. And I have no reason to think I can do them. Like there's no history to prove it, but I think I can. Right. You know, and I feel like you probably have that same sort of mindset. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know. So the Vinifera vineyard that the the Oklahoma University had planted, did your dad and his buddies go like There that's where they got grapes or they got cuttings. Yeah. No, they went they, you know, went, you know, to whoever there, the faculty or whatever, and said, you know, that's great. You have this vineyard, like, what's your plan with the fruit? And they kinda looked at them and I said, What? They're Well, the grapes, are you gonna do with the grapes? And they're ⁓ you can have those. So they would the grapes are like an afterthought. Yeah. No, they really were. They were just looking at, you probably rootstock and seeing how the different varietals would grow. But they, you know, went and picked their own fruit there. They would get some juice ⁓ from Napa. ⁓ which showed up as wine pretty much. I mean, it was like, you know, probably it came by rail. Right. So pretty much wine when it showed up. So they started making wine ⁓ a decent amount and it was all really, really bad wine, I believe. It was pretty undrinkable. Yeah. They would film these little hilarious commercials. and and ⁓ they would, you know, all take a sip of the wine and then immediately they'd all spit it out at the same time. Like compared it like pretending it was like a a coors commercial. ⁓ so they were making ⁓ wine for fun. They were doing other projects for fun. Like did you start making wine? Well as a kid, you know, winemaking is sticky. Yeah. Things bubble. Yeah. You know, things like that. Pop and explode. And yeah, it's like what what kid doesn't. So, you know, I was helping out with my dad and, you know, my sisters were around. They weren't super interested in it. But my dad and his buddies were just, you know, awesome. So yeah, we just you know, I would start, you know, pressing. And then when it came to filling up bottles and and driving the corks in, which were done, you know, with like a s a hammer. Nice you know, it's like really yeah, mallet, you know, drive ⁓ in. and but my dad bought wine and collected wine. I mean, he was drinking the early wines from Napa. So wine was a part of our life. I mean, you know, in all transparency, like you really couldn't drink this wine. It was not it was not very good. I believe it. ⁓ but outside wine, you know, came to the table. And like I said, you know, my mom was ⁓ she was also a potter, so she was doing a ton of pottery and they're growing food. So, you know, it was a lot of you know, you're at a place like Blackberry Farm and and the ecosystem, the energy here of everything that this place is built on is so great and so cool. And it's so sort of similar to how I grew up, but most of the world doesn't. So, you know, the fact that you can share this with with with people and guests, I think it's just it's just wonderful. It's like Thank you. Yeah. Slice of heaven. So you were you were in Oklahoma and then you you got drawn west. Landed in Oregon. Is that your next move? ⁓ before high school we moved to ⁓ Cherry Hills, Colorado. So basically Denver. Yeah. which is where I ended up going to high school. My grandfather, you know, my grandparents lived there. My grandfather was really into fly fishing. ⁓ actually today I I caught my first trout and hit the river. Good. And so I got really into fly fishing and I it was odd because I showed up in Colorado, you know, kind of this long hair that stuck out or stood out, you know, from everyone else in these really tight shorts. Short shorts. And and you know, Colorado. Yeah, it was like, you know, it was very sort of preppy, but you know, quickly made great friends and settled in the Colorado. It's like there's no place like it in the world. ⁓ just beautiful the mountains and got really outdoorsy skiing and fishing and stuff. And then ended up, yeah, going out to to Oregon, to Portland, Oregon, Lewis and Clark College. ⁓ and I was drawn there really because of the fly fishing. ⁓ I wanted to get to some bigger waters, some salt run. Really? Like fish, steelhead and stuff. And all my friends were saying you know, most of them were going up to see a boulder, but I wanted to explore. It was just in my blood. It was like, you know, from when I was a little kid, it was like I w I just wanted to go to a somewhere new on my own and just explore and and and check it out. And it was a really, really fun time to be in Portland, Oregon. The craft brewing was just starting. So we were, you know, brewing in our college ⁓ garage. ⁓ I instantly planted a huge garden at our college house, growing absolutely everything under the sun. So it just it was it was a great experience. What did you go to college for? Well, ⁓ I thought I understand for fishing. I get you. Yeah. Like right. Now I can say that. Right. ⁓ I went to school. I thought I was gonna be pre med. Like my dad and my grandfather, I thought I was gonna be a doctor and kinda follow in their footsteps. I didn't really my mom was a you know attorney and thought, well, in my life it's like we could be two things, right? Right doctor, lawyer, yeah. Doctor, lawyer and and ⁓ completely burned out after a couple of years. I was just you know, not into wasn't really excited to hang out with the people in the major. ⁓ love the coursework. ⁓ it was very challenging. Yeah. ⁓ but enjoyed it. ⁓ but just it wasn't me. It just wasn't feeling right. And honestly, I was really distracted in college with all the other extracurricular activities. And well, you had a garden. Yeah. We had a garden. I kind of sort of tell my kids this now and and others that I meet, I said, you know, college really is if you can figure out who you are as a person in college, then that's great. Yeah. Like, you know, there's so much pressure in the world of, you know, what are you gonna be and what are you gonna become? And so it's like you think you have to get on this path and now stay on it. And yeah. It really is a good time to as you say, if you can figure out who you are and what you are interested in, yeah. It's a win. Even if that means a change, it is a win. I I agree with that. I think a lot of people do go to college with a lot of pressure to like continue on this path you just started. Yeah, to be s yeah, exactly. To be something. So I dropped out, burned out. ⁓ decided to do a study abroad in southern Spain. So moved to ⁓ Granada, Spain. Mm-hmm. ⁓ studied like Spanish language and Spanish history. Wow. That was it. That was a real pivotal point. I I l stayed at this little ⁓ Cotija, this little farm ⁓ right outside of the city, had to bike back and forth. ⁓ grew like, you know, favas, made local wine, like all the little farmers around just, you know, made a little bit of wine that they drank. And it was just like, you know, wine and people and the community absolutely loved it. Like just that's where I kind of really figured out what made me happy and and you know, I've just became fluent in Spanish. ⁓ ended up You know, staying a little bit longer and then moved back ⁓ to school and called my dad and said, you know, I don't think I want to be a doctor. Like I don't want to do this. I'm not feeling it all feeling it at all. And he said, you know, ⁓ follow your heart. He said, however, college is four years. But follow your heart. You know, he just wanted he was like, Look, you need to figure out something because, you know, you have a year and a half. I ended up with a degree in religious studies. Yeah. I was super into Buddhism and just I think stuff that was easy and interesting. Yeah. You know, it's just like if it is interesting, it's gonna be easy. That's right. It was like it was you have to be into it. Yeah. You know. And you know, s we really want our doctors to be interested in being doctors. So I'd be glad that you changed that path too. Yeah. No, I think ⁓ I think I would have loved being a doctor. Yeah. ⁓ You probably would have loved it when it got to the people part. Yeah, exactly. Taking care of people is much cooler than diving into curriculum. Exactly. Yeah, and I love I love people and I think that's really where, you know, the segue to the wine business. So in college I met my mentor, ⁓ guy named Gary Andrus. ⁓ he had started Pine Ridge Winery in the seventies in in the Napa Valley and a good friend of mine, ⁓ his daughter, you know, grew up in a little cottage where the winery eventually was built. And so, you know, I would have wines at our college ho my our college house was kind of the party house. It was ⁓ a ton of fun always and he came by a couple times and would party with us. He was kind of a larger than life ⁓ character, loved to have a good time and big fly fisherman, so he just kinda hit it off actually talking about fishing and then wines came about and he we would taste wine. He was like, you know, you've got a palate. Like you you actually understand what you're drinking and like you you're really into this. And I said, Yeah, I love wine. You know, I also loved beer and sure and whatever else I was in college and having fun. And he said, Why don't you come work for me in the Napa Valley? And I just didn't really even register. I was kind of like, huh? And I had mentioned it to my dad. I said, Yes, guys got this vineyard down there, winery or something once, you know, offered me a internship to come down and learn about the farming and kind of dig in. And my dad said, Pack your shit up. Like go. Go. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, You I think you would love that. Like you should go do that. And that was it. Drove out there in my nineteen eighty-five Toyota Land Cruiser that still sits in our garage to this day. Awesome. ⁓ the first day in the vineyard, I was down in Carneros. It was ninety-eight, which was actually ⁓ a challenging vintage because it was really wet. And there were sort of two paths winemakers took. You know, they either, you know, picked had to sort of got nervous and picked really early. Or some vineyards were able to sort of ride out the rain and pick after the storm. That was my first vintage in the vineyard. So I thought it was it was really cool, challenging sort of growing season to be able to ⁓ to learn. But my very first day in the vineyard, speaking Spanish all day. I was actually living in Berkeley, sleeping on my sister's couch and driving up every day. But speaking Spanish all day and then, you know, conveniently like eating the crew's lunch with them. Right. You know. That was it. Literally the very first day. It was just like it just took on you. Yeah. It just felt like home. You know, it just felt like just fun and interesting. I loved I could drive a tractor. I did ⁓ did some landscaping for summer work. Yeah. ⁓ really starting in high school. ⁓ I'd put people's lawns in in the neighborhood and like I could always talk my talk my way into, you know. letting somebody work on their house or like trust me, no, this is good. We can do it same in in college. It's awesome. Could drive a tractor and move equipment and stuff. So I loved that side of it. So you made it to to Napa and then you were hooked. but there's ⁓ a long there's a long path from, you know, working in the vines to, you know, where you are today. ⁓ what what ⁓ were you Yeah. How are you starting to actually make the wine? Yeah. So Pine Ridge was a, you know, first internship. Ended up meeting the Deleurs family. They started ⁓ Z D wines in Rutherford in nineteen sixty nine. ⁓ I was really drawn to them. ⁓ their founder was a real pioneer in organic farming. He was ⁓ the first to actually put, you know, organically farmed in sixty nine on their Pinot Noir from from Carnaros. But when I went ⁓ When I went to to go meet with him, ⁓ I pulled into the winery to interview and there was this guy on the side of the road on the side of the Silverado Trail pulling weeds, you know, it's about ninety degrees out. And so I go in and and meet their son, who was a head winemaker at the time and blah blah and he's telling about his dad and I was like, ⁓ well, where's your dad? And he's like, ⁓ he's weeding on the side of the highway. You know, he just blew past what he loves. But you know, it was just this ⁓ again, it had this theme of ⁓ a family. Yeah. ⁓ so I started there doing shipping. You know, they were like, Well, our cellar master of 17 years is retiring. You know, obviously you're not a seller master, ⁓ but you know, we've got a position for you. And so I started packing boxes, shipping when that, you know, what I called the ugly work was done, then I got to go in the cellar and learn how to make wine. And so it was really, ⁓ for me, the whole my whole sort of career path and everything has been about, you know, meeting wonderful people. ⁓ families that have worked hard and love the land and you know farm well organically and and and lift each ⁓ lift you know others around them up so they taught me everything I ended up doing some coursework through UC Davis and at the Napa Valley College. Eventually one day this ⁓ amazingly attractive woman walked into the tasting room and started working there and And I was like, ⁓ who's that? So I ended up meeting ⁓ my wife Nancy there. ⁓ she was cooking professionally. She had ⁓ graduated from the CIA in Hyde Park and came out, swore she was coming to California like for one year to cook. And ⁓ the rest of the one year things turn into yeah, you know, lifetimes. Yeah, one year. So anyway, she was working at the winery ⁓ to make money, you know, as a chef then. It was ⁓ you made, you know, zero dollars. ⁓ ⁓ Yeah and yeah. Exactly. So ended up ⁓ getting married and and so from Z D sort of a big career break for was meeting the Krause family. ⁓ they were you know they had purchased a property up on top of Howl Mountain in the eighties, mid eighties, and sort of their lifelong dream was to build a winery to to make their wine at. Nice. as well to make some of their friends' wine. It's I was in charge of the vineyards. ⁓ I got to work with him and designed the whole winery. So we built we dug the caves, you know, twenty-five thousand square feet of cave, all gravity flow winery, state of the art, gorgeous. But it was working with people that understood I was young but trusted me. Yeah. And we worked as a team and really just built this incredible facility. ⁓ and that's where eventually my consulting business and making wine for others would start. Yeah. It's interesting to me that with all of the gardening and growing of things that you did throughout your entire story that ultimately you went into wine making instead of vineyard management or or wine growing, you might say. ⁓ was that just one of those branches in life where you're like, Well, this is the opportunity, the door that opened, Ed Z D, and then you know, you kind of like stepped through that or At one point did you say I could do this or I could do that or or I don't know. It seems like not that many people do both things. Yeah. You know, you're here at an event with ⁓ you know, another guest is Jim Barber, who's a vineyard manager and been doing that for a long time. That's like his main focus. ⁓ it's interesting to me to know are those two distinct branches? Or do you know anyone that does both really great? Well, so I think that's sort of how You know, winemaking really, I would say around the world, but definitely in the Napa Valley, I think that was sort of a big evolution that started really with sort of my generation. You know, my a a l not all, but a a a chunk of sort of my cohorts, ⁓ colleagues now is that you know, wine is made in the vineyard. And you know, historically throughout, you know, Bordeaux and really early Napa Valley, the winemaker didn't go to the vineyard. ⁓ so I started in the vineyards and then realized, you know, I want to become a winemaker and I'm gonna do I mean, I said to myself one day, I was like, I wanna be like the I wanna try to be like the best winemaker in Apple. Like I really wanna be, you know, I wanna do this. And so I put my head down and I was like, you know, I just worked my butt off. Yeah. You know, just like you guys have done in your career. And it's like, you know. You if if you love what you're doing, you wake up every day jazz to jump out of bed and tackle it and learn and do what you're gonna do. You know, eventually, I got really into the vineyard side of things. So I spend ⁓ the chunk of the growing season really in the vineyard. Yeah. And that's where you make the wine. So now it's you know, now I really have the best of both worlds. I have an incredible crew at the winery. So much of the the seller and production is really streamlined for me. So I'm spending time in the vineyard. And that's I think that's where you can take wine to the next level when you're that involved in the farming. ⁓ to go back to the evolution, you know, in twenty ten I met the ⁓ the three founders that were looking to start ⁓ a wine brand. ⁓ and that was Memento Mori. Right. I actually almost did an interview with them because I found out who they were talking to. And they were talking as you know, some really big name winemakers. And, you know, I had just started Archonstone. Like I we had just I had maybe two releases out and nobody knew who I was. You know, I was just head down making wine. I thought there's no way they're gonna hire me. And Nancy said, just go talk to ⁓ We'd become friends with one of them, yeah. Adriel Larez, one of the founders. He he purchased my first vintage of Arkinstone at a our kids ⁓ little nursery school wine auction. So I had met him there and we'd kind of become friends. We'd hung out together and done some barbecues together. And he was sort of the one that threw my name into the hat. And I went in and interviewed with him and I was kind of a jerk. Yeah. Yeah. I was like I I didn't honest. I was honest. Okay. I w shall we say I was very direct. There you go. you know, they really were learning about wine. They didn't, you know, have this huge background in wine. I think Adriel knew the most about wine. ⁓ and so I was just very honest with them. I was like, you know, well, that's a really dumb question. Let me tell you why. Right. You know, and I think probably others were telling them what they thought they wanted to hear. ⁓ but that was it. So that was my first, you know, they called me back a month and a half later and they said, Hey, remember, you know, remember that time we want to do this, you know, like are you interested? Will you be our winemaker? And I was kinda like, ⁓ yeah. But wait, I kind of feel like I need to You know, ask my boss if they're okay. My bosses if they're okay with this. If we could have another job, is that gonna be this competition or and I went and I told them, and I'll never forget, I was so nervous. And I called this meeting, you know, I need to talk to you guys about something, you know. And ⁓ and I told them, and they were like, ⁓ my god, that is so cool. You have to do it. Yeah. ⁓ And I think that was really, you know, and to this day they're like that. And everyone that I've worked with has sort of always had that. that energy and that, you know, that sort of we all rise together. Yeah. And that's really how I've that's the energy that I carry in winemaking and in farming. Yeah. And everyone that I work with. And I think that's, you know there's room for for others here. There's room for others, you know, it's a and it's just, you know, it's like if you're passionate about stuff in life, like hopefully everyone around you is as well. And we're all, you know, you're interested in the same sort of End goal. Right. And everyone can do this. Right. Well, and also like within that community, there's so many things that impact everyone, whether it's climate or, you know, fires or tourism. I mean, like there's so many challenges that, you know, you know, when we have a bottle in front of us, we don't necessarily see, you know, we see this beautiful product at the end, but you guys have a collective struggle as a community. Of a lot of things. Yeah. I mean Napa, we are a really tight farming community. You know, it might seem like this large valley with a ton of tourism and and wealth and everything, but at the end of the day, you know, we're a tight community when we've gone through earthquakes and fires and you know, everyone comes together and helps each other out. And so, you know, it's home to us. Yeah. It's a rainy season. Everybody's got a rainy season, right? It's exactly right. Yeah. It's like, you know, we're we're all getting through this together. Yeah. ⁓ so it's just it's been a really, really fun journey. Why did the three founders of Memento Mori want to start a winery? So they're, you know, childhood friends. Adriel Laris grew up on a border town, Alvin, Texas. His real big break was ⁓ getting into Stanford University. Wow. Adriel, I think I think he was it was a Boy Scout who was he had a little bit of a break. That showed him ⁓ you know, kind of a glimpse in the outside world and he worked his butt off. Yeah. And he ended up getting an academic full ride to Stanford University. When he was in Alvin, he ⁓ met Hayes Drumwright, who was there, you know, or Hayes would come and visit him and they were they were childhood friends. And and then Hayes and Adam, there's three of them, Adrian Hayes and Adam, they they met in Boston at college when Hayes was at Boston University. He was a captain of the swim team. He was an incredible athlete and he was diagnosed with cancer. Right. Ultimately that diagnosis for him that, you know, when you can walk into a doctor's office and in the first couple of minutes, you know, they'll somebody can, you know, completely change your outlook on life and like ⁓ flip everything on his head. You know, he had to stop swimming immediately and and you know, everything stopped and ended. That was really It for him. He made it out fine. They were able to, you know, remove the tumor and and ⁓ he was cancer free. but it was that moment for him that you know, shortly after college, he said, you know, they've they've always wanted to do something together in business. And Adrian really loved wine, and they were coming up to the Napa Valley exploring, and they knew they they wanted to do something together, so they were like, Screw it, we should try to make wine together. ⁓ and Hayes came up with a name. ⁓ memento mori which he means you know remember your mortality remember you know we all will die eventually and his translation was remember to live right so use that when it's in your face like that then you you remember that like you know live every day to its fullest because you never know what's gonna happen. Sure. So they just went after it. Ultimately memento mori was doing things totally different than most wineries because you know we didn't have a winery We were making the wine up at Arkenstone. And they were all about having fun. It wasn't like an ego project. You know, for me as the winemaker, they told me from the very beginning, you make the best wine possible. Do whatever you need to do. Get whatever you need. Like we'll figure out how to do it. But just like you make the best wine possible. So our first vintage was ⁓ 2010. And I I had about 12 barrels. And I created a Blend of the barrels and did a tasting with them, and they were three wines. And the clear winner was wine three. And I was like, you know, we'll see if they even like the wine. I was so nervous. They all tasted it and blind, and they all chose wine number three, and I freaked out because wine number three was only using five barrels. But it was a clear winner. So five barrels out of 13. And I was like. This is not good. They're gonna kill me like the other ones. Like they're just not as solid of a wine. Like, what are what's gonna happen? Yeah. And I told them and they were just ecstatic. They're like, We did it. Like we've had a wine. Like we all love this. And I was like, guys, not the bet. And they were like, ⁓ we don't care about that. We want the best wine possible. So I've always sort of gone through the mentality, which you have to in wine. It's like, you know, in tough seasons and everything, we've always put the best wine in a bottle. Nice. Period. Nice. So that first release was 125 cases. Yeah, it was just tiny. And the wine's still like awesome to this day. And really, I mean, you obviously made the right choices because it sort of exploded onto the the wine scene as like this super wine that you can't get was kind of I remember hearing, you know, if you've seen or like people haven't even asked, like, did you try it? They're like, Have you ever seen one of these? Yeah. You know? Like this. So if you've seen it. And I honestly like I wasn't even aware of that. A lot of that earlier. Like I was just head down making great wine. ⁓ like the the rumblings were starting, you know. The rumblings were starting, you know. The brand got pretty serious. You know, we we ⁓ sort of were the the top lot at Premier Napa Valley. So we had a couple of big things that really sort of put us on the map. ⁓ our first hire ⁓ was Genevieve Veshivari, ⁓ who's ⁓ our general manager now, and she really did an incredible job of taking sort of ⁓ the energy that the brand had, the spirit of this, you know, remember to live, but just really having fun with the goal of making the best wine possible. And like, don't worry about how others are building and making wine in the value. Like just do what's right for us. And she built a team. And it's really been that team that she's built, you know, all with that collective energy that has really just taken the brand to the next level. You know, people wanna be around us. Yeah. And work with us. Yeah. So but also give being ⁓ having someone give their faith in you, but also the freedom to to not worry about making the most I mean, well, essentially making the most of of what you have in front of you. That that's gotta be, I mean, that's a treasure. It really is. And it's like ⁓ I would imagine it's probably been a similar history here at Blackberry. You know, that's how great things are built. They're built on trust with good people and great energy with the, you know, hopefully the common end goal and exploring and doing things. ⁓ so it's it's yeah, it's been a really fun ride, you know, definitely. And with Arkansone too. I mean, just starting that brand. So where did ⁓ the success with Arkenstone and then ⁓ with Memento Mori, where did that like catapult you catapult it took it some different directions. So literally the year after starting Memento Mori, it was ⁓ sort of I was approached by David Abrew. Yeah. ⁓ to start this project on Pritchard Hill. ⁓ it was called Nine Sons. It was a lot of fun. I helped them also sort of design a winery and launch their brand with the family. Things just started falling align and I just had the support from everyone around me, like, let's let's do this. And I was, you know, ⁓ just kind of working working my butt off and trying to make the best wine possible. ⁓ and then ⁓ twenty fourteen, ⁓ another, you know, wonderful family. ⁓ had a vineyard set ⁓ right up above rector dam. This project's called Van Gone. Incredible site for Cabernet. During this whole process, Nancy had tr had decided to ⁓ not cook professionally anymore. ⁓ the n the next sort of step in her career would have been to have her own restaurant. And ⁓ she you know she made the really tough decision of of wanting to, you know, stay home and and raise the kids. ⁓ she loved cooking, but she had cooked professionally for fifteen years and and the restaurant world was just crazy and weekends and holidays and all consuming. And she decided, you know what? I love it. I'm done with it for now. Wanna raise the kids. And we knew eventually that we were gonna make wine together. Like that was it was obviously like our our goal. And people always said to us, you know, when are you when are you guys gonna do something? Yeah. And, you know, we'd been working on it. We we love Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. We drink a l a ton of burgundy. You know, very often ⁓ when we get home it's a it's a killer bottle of Chivouli or something. You know, for us it's when you're you know, making Napa and drinking Napa all the time. It's like, you know, we get home, we drink something different. ⁓ so I had my eyes on a farmer ⁓ that my ⁓ vineyard consultant worked with a lot out on the coast, Ulysses Valdez. Yeah. And his UV Vineyard was ultimately like where I had my well I had my eyes set on, which was impossible. I mean, it was completely tied up by, you know, Marco Bear and Paul Hobbes and these, you know, legends in California, Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. ⁓ but I wasn't gonna give up. And so for over three years I worked on him and, you know, lunches where we got to know each other and, you know, laughed and cried, you know, breaking bread together and sort of his story and history just it blew me away. I loved ⁓ that that That story of of you know, coming from, you know, nothing to becoming sort of the top, like like the top, the top grower, great grower on the coast. So a couple of years down in, one lunch, we're sitting there, and he just said to me, He said, I think I have a little fruit for you, amigo. And I was just like, Huh? Like where? And he was like, Let's go. It's right here. So we left lunch, went out to the vineyard, and ⁓ it was UV. So it was the site I wanted and the best blocks. Wow. And he had had a little falling out with a relationship and and wanted me to to move in and take over and start making wine there. So I called up ⁓ Nancy on the drive home and I just said, We got UV. She's like, What do you mean we got UV? I was like, We're doing this, like we're gonna start a project and she's like, you know, thinking about the kids and yeah and college life and like how are we gonna do this, you ⁓ so that was it. We started with the UV Vineyard in twenty fifteen, about a hundred cases of each. Each Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. Yeah, both yeah, Pinot and Chardonnay. And then we ⁓ you made it at Arkansas? Made it at Arkansas and I make all my wines at Arkansas. Still, okay still, yeah, to this day. ⁓ and it's incredible. Like it's like a winemakers playground and the best people on my staff. ⁓ my assistant Roberto Alfaro has been with me for twenty years. Amazing. ⁓ He started his own brand, Orador, which is really cool too. So ⁓ for people who have never driven from, say, the Sonoma Coast, like the true Sonoma Coast to Howl Mountain. ⁓ what is that like for the grapes? I mean, so you they're picking on in the UV vineyard. It's pretty far afield, and then you have to come up over the I mean yeah, you don't want to be the truck driver driving. I've seen those trucks on those roads. I wouldn't want to be the truck driver. Honestly, it's like ⁓ it's kind of this triangle from the coastar house to Arkinstone and it's it's ⁓ I mean the truck loaded is about an hour drive. Is that it? Okay. So it's really not bad and it's that we pick at night. So the fruit shows up at cool six AM cold and ready to go. ⁓ so we that's that's how we do it. And it's really it's it's better having all your wines in one winery than multiple wineries because I'm a control freak. So your winery that you started, I guess with the the fruit From the UV Vineyard that you and Nancy started. What's it called? Maxim. Okay. Yeah, it's called Maxim, named after our kids, Max and Emma. Maxim in Latin also means best of the best. There you go. Actually, Susan Krause, the owner of Arkansan, came up with the name when I approached her and I said, you know, we got UV. Like and she was like, ⁓ my God, it's incredible. She said, You have to call it Maxim. She's like, I've been thinking about this. Obviously. And Nancy and I had been thinking for years, what are we gonna call? And we were I was just like, ⁓ my god, how did we not come up with that? Instantly Googled the name, everything wine, no no one was doing anything. Amazing. ⁓ so we were able to do it. We we then expanded the portfolio after a couple years of just UV ⁓ into his estate vineyard, Silver Eagle. Mm-hmm. ⁓ right next door to Silver Eagle is a vineyard called ⁓ Lucky Well. Right. So we moved UV UV Lucky Well now, I guess. Yeah, UV Lucky Well. Some people call it UV S L. Okay. ⁓ the S L stands for Stotes Lane. So his estate is on Stoates Lane. Then in twenty twenty one I got a call from a an old friend and he said this old man had passed away and had a house in this old vineyard on Stoates Lane. ⁓ you should check it out if you're interested. And so I zipped right over and drove up into the property and was just like blown away and was like, okay, this needs a lot of work, but I know this dirt here is perfect. So Nancy and I got a, you know, a small business loan, SBA loan, scraped everything together and purchased our estate in 2021, ⁓ just up the street from Silver Eagle. And ⁓ because I was always terrified, you know, building our whole brand off UV and other people's vineyards. Like what if they sold or something happened? ⁓ so I was really worried about, you know, building all this, you know, sort of brand around this great fruit. Around this great fruit and and I love to farm and I would want to do things my way anyways. So we did it. And it's just this still, you know, big work in progress, but now we're releasing the wines and they're insane from your estate. From our estate. Yeah, they're incredible. So it's really been, you know, the journey has just been sort of one step at a time. You know, doing maxim was very calculated, thought out. We've always had helps from from so many people, and this we really want to do just on our own. It seems like like throughout, I mean, you had very supportive parents, and then ⁓ all the people that you've worked with along the way are just like, yeah, go do it. It sound there's there's an obvious theme of great people and and fun. And and your hard work. Hard work. Yeah. Yeah. And Nancy's hard work. I decided pretty early in life to like kind of only want to surround yourself with people that you want to be around. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I'll never I'll never forget, you know, Hayes, Hayes Drumright. We ended up starting the Vita Valiente ⁓ wine brand together, which we can talk about next. I think he said when they ended up hiring me, he said, you know, we wanted somebody that you could sit next to on like a three hour flight. Yeah. And kind of want to talk to and hang out the whole time. And I think that's it's kinda you think about that, you know. Sometimes you get on an airplane, you're like, I don't know. You know, nothing I'm putting on my fence with. Yeah, I said valiente, you we've mentioned it now a couple of times. How did that come about? Shortly after Nancy and I had started Maxim, we had a couple maybe I think we maybe had like two releases out. A's, you know, were you know, we were thick as thieves. We really started hanging out a lot and he said, you know, keep your eye out for a piece of property. He said, You I've always I'd I'd love to do something sort of just us. Memento was really sort of taking off and, you know, going to the moon. He said, I would love to see you develop a vineyard, you know, find it, plant it, develop it, and we make wine from it. And so I looked for about I looked for, you know, about three years. at a lot of different sites. ⁓ and eventually via my vineyard consultant and another friend, ⁓ we caught wind of this property that was gonna be coming up for sale. So, you know, in Napa when, you know, the market is a little bit different now, but really all the great places are word of mouth in via relationship. You know, it's not a real estate it's not online. Like I buy a vineyard. ⁓ the best vineyard so we found out about this property and it was an old walt walnut orchard. not produce anymore, but totally flat. And ⁓ the soil in that area is tremendous. It's at the base of Glass Mountain and it's all Cortina soil, which is ⁓ you know, think best vineyards in St. Helena, Dr. Crane, Las Piedras. It's a really rocky, sandy, like, you know, A plus plus site. And we bought it. Nice. And then ⁓ you know, ⁓ I thought, well, okay. I want to develop a vineyard. I want the best of the best. And ⁓ I thought about Jim Barber, who I'd been working with, and I just, you know, we ⁓ had always hit it off. He was really had so much experience farming and growing in the Napa Valley. And so I brought Jim over and I had told him where it was, the address, and he said, What? Old Paul Cornell, Paul Cornell Cornell grew up? Yeah. I said, Yeah, that's a site. ⁓ And he grew up on that property, ⁓ taking care of the horses when he was in high school. ⁓ Had an old horse barn and it was perfect. So it was just kind of meant to be. He's like, I know this place. I know this place. So he ⁓ so we did it. We developed the vineyard there and and that was really the start of of Vita Valiente. Do you sleep? I sleep. I mean, there's a lot of work that's going on. A lot of work. ⁓ I do. Actually Nancy's always like, you've got anarchy. Yeah, because I get into and I'm like, I'm I'm done. I understand that. ⁓ keeps you out of trouble though, right? Keeps me out of trouble. I you know, this story seems like, you know, wow, you've done so much. It's it's it's a team. Yeah. I mean, it's not just me. It's like I've got incredible staff and crew and ⁓ but we had sort of this dream with Vita Valiente, which really translates to a brave life. Okay. And so Hayes' concept, you know, he's the mastermind of of so much of this sort of the the direction of brand feel and the marketing and it's like remember to live Vita Valiente, remember to live a brave life. Mm-hmm with Vita Valiente connect the two. Yeah, so it's pretty fun. It was like, you know, really older vineyards with Vita Valiente and then ⁓ or sorry with Memento Mori and then Vita Valiente is, you know, the newer sort of, you know, virgin sites, if you will. Can we produce, you know, Grand Cru esque. you know, top wines and you are from these doing single site bottlings at Vita Valiente. We are. Yeah. But like with most of my projects, ⁓ like with Memento Mori, which was unique is we're blending those. So the flagship is a blend of all the sites. And then with Vita Valiente we have a bottling called the movement where I blend the sites because I love to blend. And I think it's really cool, you know, our collectors love to sort of experience and taste the the terroir of each of the sites. And then to be able to taste what the blend is of that ⁓ is pretty. So you're doing like single sites and the blend. And the blend. Nice. And for people out there that might not realize how just how special that is, these were elite sites that you were that if you had done the single bottling you would have put like the vineyard name on, right? But when you're blending them, is it You can you do that? So we were allowed to, you know, contractually do do a bit of it. And people thought we were crazy in the beginning when Memento starts like Caplan, why would you blend Dr. Crane? Why would you blend away Las Piedras? And the answer is I truly believe as a winemaker that the sum of all the parts makes a better wine. Yeah. And the reason is multifold, but really, you know, every year isn't the same. Right. Each vintage tells a story, the weather, what the growing season was like. And so sites perform differently. Mm-hmm. So when you have the ability to blend, then I can I feel like I have ⁓ sort of more control to make the best wine possible every year. Cause I mean, wine make winemakers would be lying if they told you that the top site every year was their top site. You know, there are years where it comes and it doesn't mean it's not the top, it just it could be different from that vintage. Right. I love the whole motto of the company and your approach to it. It's just like we're gonna we're gonna create what's best and we're gonna defy what's normal. So what's next? We're always cooking on new things for ⁓ say for Maxim. ⁓ you know the concept of blending ultimately led us to our newest bottling which is just tiny. ⁓ it's just two barrels. ⁓ it's called knuckle bones. Yeah. I'm in love with this name. The Maxim logo is ⁓ it looks like a Jaxers four circles. X with four circles, like the game jacks. And when we were trademarking ⁓ the logo and the name, our trademark attorney came and he said, Well, I did some research on knucklebones. And it turns out, you know, they used to play, you know, the game originated with human knucklebones. And and it was called, you know, or whatever it's called knucklebones. And Nancy and I kinda looked at each other and we were like I was like Trademark that. Yeah. Let's get knucklebones. And we knew at some point we were gonna do something with it. You know, when we purchased our estate, it was like, well, should we call that knucklebones? And it just felt like ⁓ it was maybe gonna be a little confusing, you know. And we always wanted like our an estate, you know, like just in the wine world, your estate is like, you know, really what you're most proud of, right? It's your kind of like your home site. ⁓ so we want a name of the estate, and then we you know, kind of came up with the idea like, you know, with all my other projects I'm blending, why am I not trying to produce the our best bottle of Pinot Warm, best bottle of Chardonnay with blending each of the sites from the Sonoma Coast? So that's what it is a teeny teeny 'cause our our production is tiny. We're just over a thousand cases total production total with all the wines. ⁓ so knuckle bones is so you do make a knucklebones Pinot and a knucklebones Chardonnay? And fifty case coupe of each. Yeah. So ⁓ a lot of these wines are are hard to find. Yep. Even hard to see. Hard to find, hard to get a glimpse of get a glimpse of. ⁓ but how can people follow your journey? Like Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Maximwine dot com. Yeah. That's one. Mementumori, York and Stone. ⁓ come to the Napa Valley. You know, I'm I'm pretty busy, but when I'm around, I'd love to hang out and nice. Share a glass of wine. You heard it from him. We will ⁓ we'll let you handle those requests. ⁓ well thank you so much for being with us. It was a delight to hear your story today. And thank you for coming to Blackberry Farm. Thanks for having me. It's a treat. Yeah. A lot of fun.