David Anderman: Space (Investing) is Big. Really Big. From Lucasfilm's Star Wars to SpaceX to…The Final Frontier

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Kent Lindstrom: Uh, Space the
final frontier. Hey, folks, it's
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Kent Lindstrom, my guest today,
David Anderman, you know, maybe
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a way to think about this
episode is that in technology,
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every so often a new technology
emerges, a new world opens up,
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and everything changes. Think
about the internet. Before the
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internet, you might have dreamed
of a social network, but you
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couldn't build one. But when the
internet emerged, it opened up
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the world, and now there's
social networks that connect
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billions of people. The same
with, for example, mobile.
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Before mobile existed. Now you
might be able to imagine Uber
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but you couldn't build it, but
then mobile came along, and
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transportation changed forever.
So today, there are two
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technologies that are like that,
which means we're living in just
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an extraordinary time. One of
them is AI, that's not the topic
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of this episode, but the other
is space. And while you weren't
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looking SpaceX and other
companies like it made access to
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space cheap, impossible, where
previously it was basically
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expensive and impossible for
anybody who wasn't a government
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today, people with a dream and
an idea and $5 million from a
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venture capitalist can go try to
build a space mining company, a
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hauling company, manufacturing
company in space, a startup, a
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startup just landed a probe on
the moon. I don't think anyone
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has a more interesting
perspective on investing in
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space, or space in general than
my guest today, David Anderman.
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David Anderman were for
Lucasfilm, for George Lucas.
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That's right. Star Wars helped
George Luca sell that company to
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Disney. And then, well, he went
to real space. He went to work
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for Elon Musk as his general
counsel, where he oversaw things
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like the launch of Starlink. And
then, well, you'll find out what
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he does next. He starts a
venture capital company called
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stellar ventures, and we'll tell
you what they do. But I really
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think you're gonna like this
episode. As Douglas Adams said
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in hitchuckers Guide to the
Galaxy, space is big, really
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big. Welcome back to the
something that's your podcast.
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All right. Welcome back to the
something about your podcast.
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I'm Kent Lindstrom. I'm your
host. My guest today is David
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Anderman, how are you doing? I'm
doing great. Thanks so much for
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doing this. David's an attorney.
That's doesn't sound that
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interesting, but hang on,
there's more. This is the week
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for cool careers on on something
ventured. He was at Lucasfilm as
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general counsel and chief
operating officer that wasn't
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enough. He went to SpaceX, where
he was general counsel, and if
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that wasn't enough of a career,
he's now a co founder partner at
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stellar ventures, which is
investing in space and related
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things. This is a heck of a
career you're putting together
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here. Oh, thanks.
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David Anderman: Yeah. I feel
pretty fortunate. My sisters
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like to say that I manifested my
eight year old self into a
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career.
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Kent Lindstrom: That is pretty
accurate. Now, did your eight
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year old self, uh, see Star
Wars? Like, when you came to
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Lucasfilm? Oh yeah, it was like
you saw the thing, like the,
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like, your eight year old, yeah,
the real star wars?
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David Anderman: Oh yeah, yeah.
No. I mean, I had, you know, I
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famously watched Star Wars 17
times in the movie theater when
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I was eight years old. And that
was like the thing that summer
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of 1977 that was the thing you
did as an eight year old. I
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mean, every single weekend we
went to the Nanuet mall and we
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watched Star Wars, yeah, so I
saw it 17 times. Now, of course,
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I didn't tell George that when I
interviewed for the job. In
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fact, I didn't tell George that
until we were on the plane. It
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was he and I on the plane going
down to Disney from Northern
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California to sign the deal. And
I told George I saw Star Wars 17
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times in the movie theater when
I was eight years old, and my
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favorite movie is Empire Strikes
Back. And he was really touched.
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He was It was great. And as a
gift when I ultimately left
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Lucasfilm a few years after,
when we were doing the
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integration with with Disney,
when I left, he gave me a one of
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the original at Acts and snow
speeder from Empire Strikes Back
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as a going away gift.
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Kent Lindstrom: Oh, that's
incredible. It's hard to
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describe to people who weren't
kids in 1977 what that was like
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there? And there's a thing that
I think, if I get this one
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wrong, you know, there's a
moment in the movie where the
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thing comes overhead, it's the
the think it's like an Imperial
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cruiser and a star destroyer,
Star Destroyer, right? It's
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Darth Vader ship, right? Yeah,
comes from, kind of feels like
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behind you and comes over you
and is so enormous, like, you
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just can't believe what you're
seeing. It's so
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David Anderman: the music from
John Williams, since at that
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point, you know, don't it's the
chasing the Tantive for because
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you got to know this. Rebel
blockade runner, and it's
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leaving, and then it rushes off
the distance, and suddenly the
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star destroyer comes behind you,
this ominous president, one of
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the best
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Kent Lindstrom: it's just an
incredible moment when you like,
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I know now people like, oh yeah,
that's like a fortnight, you
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know, I see that all the time,
but back then, at that time, and
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that summer, when you saw that,
it was just, just incredible.
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Yeah, it
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David Anderman: was amazing. It
was, it's an amazing feat of
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movie making. And one of the
things that I'm super proud of
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is, right, right after we did
the deal with Disney, John Noel,
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who's a, you know, Oscar
winning, world famous, you know,
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visual effects artist, but
creative genius, and is now a
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senior role at Lucasfilm, he
came to me afterward, and he
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said, Look, I've had this idea
percolating in my head for a
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long time about, you know, the
the story leading up to that
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scene, right? And that's what
became Rogue One. He said, Do
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you think that Kathy Kennedy, at
that point, became the the
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president of Lucas? Do you think
she'd be interested? And I said,
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Absolutely, you know, do you
think she'd be open to listening
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to this story idea? And I said,
Of course she would. And we, you
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know, brought it over to to
Kathy, and then ultimately,
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that's what became Star Wars
Rogue One, which is one of my
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favorite of the new movies. And
it's that whole story leading up
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to that moment, right? You know,
Darth Vader is chasing Princess
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Leia and trying to get the plans
back to the Death Star, yeah.
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And it shows that moment. It
just, I mean, it just shows how
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iconic that moment is, that you
want to have a whole film just
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about the lead up to that
moment. Yeah,
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Kent Lindstrom: it's such an
incredible world. You're a
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venture capitalist. Now, I had
to bring this all together. Cyan
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Banister on the podcast a couple
weeks ago, and she has a great
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story. If you haven't heard
this, I think you're a character
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in her story, where she was
making films as a kid with her
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buddy, Lucas and they bought the
URL Lucasfilms. And for the next
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couple years, she was receiving
emails inadvertently, from
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people who are trying to email
Lucasfilm. And at some point,
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the lawyer Lucasfilm sent her a
cease and desist, and I think
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she said she settled for a
jacket and a tour of the ranch
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or something like that.
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David Anderman: We, that would
definitely have been me. I mean,
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I was known as the when I was
there. My screen name was Dark
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Lord of the cease and desist. So
the Yeah, we, it was, it was an
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interesting time to be there.
We, we definitely, you know, try
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to get back a lot of domain
names. I mean, I was there
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starting in early 98 I
interviewed 97 started early 98
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and it was really just like, you
know, the heyday of the growth
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of the internet, yeah. And we
were trying to deal with this
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whole thing of domain names, and
how do we deal with that? How do
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we go after them? And what do we
what kind of approach do we
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take? And I'll say while we were
there, you know, George in
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particular. But you know, of
course, myself as well, you
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know, trying to, trying to do
it, had a real change of
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approach with how we were going
to, you know, go after these
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things, and, and, and, you know,
I think we started off pretty
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strident, and then within a few
years, very quickly, George
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realized that, look, you know,
the internet is it's, it's, it's
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here to stay. It's never going
to change. People are going to
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be taking, you know, at first
you kind of thought of people
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taking his art and changing it.
That was something, a real
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problem. And I think, like the
Phantom edit fame, listen, which
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is a film that people created, a
video tape that was like,
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distributed behind the scenes,
where they edited out the scenes
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of Jake Lloyd from Phantom
Menace, right? And, you know, he
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was really upset about that, and
but then he had a real change of
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heart and realized that, you
know, the the fan community is
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one to embrace and embrace the
internet and embrace what we
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decided to call expressions of
fan enthusiasm. And we so we
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stopped really going after, you
know, the people who are just
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creating fan sites and people
who are creating, you know, you
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know, knitting patterns of how
to make, you know, Yoda caps
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with Yoda ears for their babies,
right? And started embracing it.
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And it was a huge flourishing of
the online community for Star
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Wars, right? And it was, it was
pretty amazing. And we really, I
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think, I think we really
created, you know, the this,
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this, the beginnings of this fan
community that's so famous now
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for Star Wars, that thrives
online, and people express
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themselves in so many different
ways. And I'm so proud of, like,
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what we did and how we
approached it. You know, going
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forward from that
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Kent Lindstrom: point, it's kind
of incredible watching that
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happen in people make that move
from, like, fighting it to not.
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It happened in, like, live
concerts. There was a moment
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when the internet and mobile
came and the whole thing was,
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like, put down your phone. Like,
don't, don't record this. You
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know that that kind of thing.
Like, there's even some things
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where they would take your
phones at the door and they had
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some system. And then people
realized, maybe culminating in,
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you know, the Taylor Swift
phenomenon. Wait a minute. Like,
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share what we're doing. Share
this moment with 500 people.
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David Anderman: With like, well,
think about the Grateful Dead,
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right? I mean, the Grateful Dead
famous. They had taper sections
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the in for their whole, you
know, history. And now that's,
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that's every day, right? And
they were way ahead of their
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time. It's, you know. Know,
embracing expressions of fan
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enthusiasm. That's the phrase we
would use at Lucasfilm. And I
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think it's, it's, it's even more
applicable today. I think the
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grateful
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Kent Lindstrom: that that's,
it's a great example of that.
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Well, I mean, you know, it to be
a fan on this. What is it like
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working for George Lucas that's,
I mean, he's just a larger than
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you think of a thing with
working for larger than life
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figures. But he seems like a
larger than life figure. His
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wife's, you know, one of the
most incredible investors in the
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world, like Melody's
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David Anderman: amazing, yeah,
George, George. George is a
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really incredible, I mean, he's
a, he's a true visionary, I
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mean, and a visionary, not just
on the filmmaking side, you
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know. And he has an incredible,
you know, filmmaker's eye for
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detail and for creating imagery
and envisioning what these
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things are going to look like.
But not just that. He, you know,
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he's a visionary on on on the
technology as well. He's as much
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a technological visionary as he
is a filmmaking visionary. And
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he would joke sometimes, I mean,
he would say to me, you know,
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look, Lucas Films, 50% of film
company, 50% of technology
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company, and 50% of toy company.
So his math wasn't so good, but
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he, you know, depending on the
day it was it was true, and that
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was one of the things that
really attracted me to
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Lucasfilm. Look, I was not an
entertainment lawyer. I was a
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technology lawyer in Silicon
Valley. I was doing IP
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litigation for Apple and Intel
and all these companies and
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exciting stuff, right at the
heart of the Internet age, in
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the internet day. And I went to
Lucasfilm because it's it's as
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much George's. George was way
ahead of his time on technology.
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One of the first things that I
did for George when I came to
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Lucasfilm was they put me on
this thing where we're going to
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make digital cinema. And we were
negotiating deals with Texas
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Instruments and JVC to put in
place the first digital
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projectors ever. This is 1999
and we were doing it to try to
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do it so that when the Phantom
Menace came out in May of 1999
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that we'd be able to project the
films digitally. Because
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George's vision was that all
Star Wars content, and certainly
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the film was going to be
distributed digitally over the
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internet. And it was impossible
at that point. You didn't even
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have, there were no digital
cinemas. Right now, it's
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impossible to think of, because
there's, there's not a single
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celluloid projector left in the
world, pretty much, right? And
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when George did it, you know,
Steven Spielberg came to me and
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said, you know, George, you're
nuts, right? You're you're
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getting rid of the film camera.
You're getting rid of the film
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projector. It's like telling,
you know, telling, you know,
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Michelangelo to get rid of paint
brushes or the chisel, right,
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right? It's just, that's, this
is the that's the art, that's
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the craft. And George like,
Nope, it's, it's, this is how
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it's going to be done. It's all
going to be digital. You're
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going to do the capture it, and
you're going to edit it, and
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you're going to change the
sound, and you're going to do
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visual effects, and you're going
to distribute it digitally. And
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so working for him was amazing,
because you really saw the
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future, and you're actually a
part of doing that future. And
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you know, it's it was really a
privilege to be able to work
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with him, and obviously, as a as
the eight year old kid who saw
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Star Wars 17 times, it was very
personal for me to then be
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entrusted with helping to
preserve his legacy. You know,
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when we were negotiating the
deal with Disney of how we were
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going to preserve this group of
characters in this environment
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where you created this
technology and these stories,
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and make sure that was preserved
for for you know, his children
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were basically sent off in the
right direction. Real, real. It
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was really amazing for me. Did
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Kent Lindstrom: any of it ruin
it for you? Like seeing how it
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was actually made? Did the magic
ever go away? We're like, oh,
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that's what it is. It's just,
no,
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David Anderman: I've never
thought that. It's so funny.
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I've never thought that. It
always amazed me that, like, you
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know, the total company of
Lucasfilm was about 2200 people
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total. And it, you know, 200 of
those were at Lucasfilm, and
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that's where, you know, we're
kind of the people entrusted
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with making the Star Wars films.
And of course, we'd hire lots of
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cast and crew. Of course, you
know, so 1000s of people. But it
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always amazed me that, you know,
these 200 people could
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ultimately touch hundreds of
millions of people that way. I
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mean, that's the power of media,
is that you can make something
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and it just it. You would
viscerally, you'd see the
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people. So even today, I see it
all the time, people just so
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touched by those stories. And
it's amazing to see that now,
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filmmaking is hard, right? I
mean, the thing that most
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surprises me, and most people
don't realize, is just how hard
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it is to make a movie. Yeah,
like, making a great movie is
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really, really, really hard, and
people don't appreciate it,
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right? Thinking, Oh, they just
think, Oh, you get a camera, you
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start filming, and everything it
is, it's incredibly hard. Well,
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you see more of appreciation for
that.
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Kent Lindstrom: You see it at
the end of the movie where
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you're like, Good lord, like,
there's this thing's been
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scrolling people's names.
There's seven people, seven
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accountants. You know, we're
still rolling it's crazy. How
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did it take a lot of people to
make a movie? I know you weren't
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the filmmaker, but did you? My
understanding is the original
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Star Wars was a lot of physical
stuff, like, they really built
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that? Oh, yeah, model. Did you
know how anything changed as it
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became more digital all the
time?
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David Anderman: Yeah, it's
massive. I mean, it's funny me
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and friends of mine, like, I've
some good friends from
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Industrial Light Magic and
things, who went through these
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revolutions while I was there.
You know, we went through the
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digital revolution. I mean, I
was just talking about the
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projector digitally. But, you
know, you. Then we were in the
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midst of the revolution at ILM,
where things were going from
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physical props, like making
models of things, and we were
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making models on Episode One,
like incredible models that you
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just can't believe exist. And I
have lots of stories about that.
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I won't go down that rabbit
hole, but they made these
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incredible physical models
because it wasn't possible to
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make everything digitally. And
they had so many challenges just
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with the things they had to do
digitally and so but, you know,
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it was the right at that period
where the ILM bottle shop was
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becoming, you know, obsolete,
and all of model makers were
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turning from making physical
models to having to make these
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things in CG, in computer
graphics, and that happened
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during between Episode One and
Episode Two. Episode Two was
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almost entirely digital. By
episode three, we even captured
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the film edited. Did everything
digitally, and that's really
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because George was pushing the
state of the art repeatedly. He
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wanted it all done digitally so
he could create anything that
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his mind could imagine. And,
yeah, it's a really amazing and,
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you know, now, right now, with
AI and generative AI and the
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ability to generate, you know,
hyper realistic movies and hyper
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realistic images of humans and
hyper realistic situations very,
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very, very easily, it's another
revolution in filmmaking where
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these new tools are enabling,
you know, people to make things
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that never could have been made
before, much easier, much
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quicker, much more cheaply. So,
and it's, I think it's a real,
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another revolution, especially
for the for the computer
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graphics industry,
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Kent Lindstrom: the future is
cool, you. So at some point this
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chapter comes to an end and it
gets sold to Disney. Was that a
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kind of inevitable, obvious
thing, or how did that come to
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come to pass. I mean, at some
level, it's
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David Anderman: inevitable and
obvious. I mean, talk about any
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venture company, right? Any
company, at some point, in
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almost every case, you know, the
the founder, even if it's a
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single founder who still
controls the company, as was the
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case with Lucasfilm, ultimately
they get to the point where, you
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know, they want to, you know,
liquidate it, like, move away
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from the company, and go on to
the next phase of their life. I
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mean, that point, you know
George had done, you know, been
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at it for 40 solid years. And
you know he had, he had just
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gotten married to melody, and
they wanted to have a child, and
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which they did. And you know, he
was facing the prospect. We knew
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he had to make seven, eight and
nine. We knew how to make these
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new films in order to keep this
is something that George always
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knew about Disney was that Walt
Disney and the Disney company
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were very good at keeping, you
know, characters and stories
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alive for generations of
children better than anyone
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else. There's really no other
company, or, you know, that ever
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has done it the way Disney has
done it. And so George was like,
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I need to, you know, I don't
want to face the prospect of
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another 10 years of doing
episode 789, he says it's
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exhausting, right? For him,
every day was like a final exam.
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It was making films is
difficult. It's not easy, even
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for George Lucas, even for
Steven Spielberg, right? And he
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just was like, you know, I I'm
not ready to do that. I don't
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want to do that. And so he went
and had a conversation with Bob
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Iger, famously, and he came back
to, you know, the the top
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leadership team at Lucasville,
very like three of us, and said,
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hey, you know, I talked to Bob.
I'm ready to sell to Disney. You
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guys go off and start
negotiating this deal. So I went
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off and started doing that.
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Kent Lindstrom: Wow, that's
incredible. Well, before, before
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we move on, I have to ask, Do
you have a preferred order for
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watching the nine films? For
someone who's no you
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David Anderman: know, I just did
it with my my young kids from a
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second marriage, seven and 10.
And we did it a couple years
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ago. We did the we did the we
watched the films and we did it.
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123456789, we did it in the
order that George wanted it in.
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Okay, you know, I of course did
it, 4561239, right? Um, but I
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think watching it, you know, one
through nine makes a lot of
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sense. And it worked really well
with the kids, and they get the
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story. And it does, it flows
incredibly well. So I'm going
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to, I'm going to advocate for
one through nine. I know the
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Star Wars fan boys will kill me
for that. Hey, that's
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Kent Lindstrom: a whole podcast
episodes worth of value, right
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David Anderman: there, no doubt.
So at
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Kent Lindstrom: some point,
okay, so you decide, all right,
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I've had enough with this
imaginary space. Let's go to
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real space.
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David Anderman: That's right. I
always say I go from fictional
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space to real space. I mean, it
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Kent Lindstrom: wouldn't be
credible. You know George Lucas
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right? In the story for you, you
end up at SpaceX. How the heck
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does that? Yeah,
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David Anderman: so, yeah. So I,
you know. So I, for about 18
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months, I ran Lucasfilm under
Disney as the COO and, you know,
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which was incredible, right? I
got to work with Kathy Kennedy,
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who's just an amazing producer,
just, just really amazing. Got
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to work with Bob Iger, you know,
Kevin Mayer, who I negotiated
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the deal with at Disney, you
know, Alan horn and Alan Bergman
371
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at the studios. And it was
amazing to be able to work with
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all those people. But it was
also a little soul sucking,
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right? It was like I had, I
personally had to go into a
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screening room and fire. Were
400 of the people at Luca starts
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when we shut it down after the
acquisition, because maybe we're
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better off licensing this stuff.
And that was super painful and
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and, you know, Disney was, you
know, I can't blame them. All of
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the divisions of Disney were
super excited to have Star Wars
379
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as their thing, their play
thing, to be able to exploit and
380
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make them crazy amazing content.
I mean, I just literally, for
381
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the first time, I had not been
to Star Wars, Galaxy edge at
382
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Disney World. I just went
through this past weekend for
383
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the first time. And it's amazing
what the Imagineers did with
384
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Star Wars. So I'm not surprised
what Disney wanted to do that.
385
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But for me personally, it was
like, you know, I was no longer
386
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doing it. I was no longer in
charge. I was no longer the guy
387
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making the deal. So it was time
to leave. So I finally got back
388
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to what I thought I was going to
do three years after I came to
389
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Lucasfilm in the first place, in
1998 I thought I'd go back to
390
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Silicon Valley and start working
with startups and do a startup,
391
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,100
be it a startup, help create a
startup. And I did that. And I
392
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actually ended up at a VR
company called jaunt, which was
393
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the hot VR time company at the
time, and it was super exciting,
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and I just loved it. But it was
five of us. I went from the COO
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of Lucasfilm to being a, first,
an advisor and eventually Chief
396
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Business Officer of this little
startup with five employees. I
397
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was literally on a couch in a
little office above the mattress
398
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store on university half in Palo
Alto, and it was like, I was
399
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like, Yes, I finally did it, and
we were doing the VR stuff at
400
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the point was incredible. Was
just before Oculus was purchased
401
00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:32,300
by Facebook by meta, right? And
it was like the time to be doing
402
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,180
VR was amazing. And I'm still
disappointed that VR hasn't
403
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:37,940
caught on with consumers the way
it really ought to. They
404
00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:40,660
certainly, from an entertainment
perspective, there's nothing
405
00:21:40,660 --> 00:21:44,680
like it. And in fact, I went
back as a side story. I took, I
406
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,680
took John back to Disney and
pitch them on the technology.
407
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:51,700
Showed it to Bob Iger, and in 30
seconds, they decided to invest
408
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and they led our our B round.
But I did that for a while, and
409
00:21:57,220 --> 00:22:01,680
then, you know, I took a break
and for personal reasons, and
410
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,640
decided, Okay, what's next in my
career? And I just thought,
411
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like, who would I want to work
for? What's another visionary
412
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I'd want to work for? And I
said, you know, I'd really love
413
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to work for Elon Musk. You know,
I just really appreciated the
414
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the vision he had for making
life multi planetary, the vision
415
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,260
he had for Tesla, vision he had
for for a lot of the things that
416
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he does. I couldn't have
envisioned Doge, of course, but
417
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,600
that's a whole different story.
But, you know, I was, I said to
418
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,840
myself, look, you know what's
next? I'd love to work for Elon
419
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:36,680
Musk. And I got Elon's email
address from a actually, a co
420
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,400
founder of John the VR company.
He had Elon's email address.
421
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,180
Didn't know him. He met him
once, so he said, Look, I'll
422
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give you his email address, but
you're on your own. So I wrote a
423
00:22:45,940 --> 00:22:50,140
cold email to Elon and said, Hi,
my name is David. I love I love
424
00:22:50,140 --> 00:22:53,440
you. I'm making the heart sign.
I love you. I love what you do,
425
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,860
and here's what I've done, and
I'd love to work together. And
426
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,560
amazingly, Elon responded, and
the next thing you know, on the
427
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,780
General Council of SpaceX, I
mean, you know, it literally was
428
00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:09,840
that. And, I mean, it didn't
hurt. In the end, this happened
429
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,760
after a whole bunch of
interviews. And I met Gwen
430
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,580
Shotwell and Brett Johnson the
CFO, and I met everybody. And,
431
00:23:14,580 --> 00:23:17,100
you know, everyone blessed me.
And then I got in front of Elon
432
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:20,600
at that point. I said, okay, my
reference is George Lucas. And
433
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,720
yeah, Elon was all over that.
That was, that's I for sure, how
434
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,080
I got through that interview. I
think was, you know, he wanted
435
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,200
to get to the interview, the
discussion with George about
436
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,980
about everything. But I think he
talked to George more than he
437
00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:37,460
talked to me during my
interview. But George was really
438
00:23:37,460 --> 00:23:40,660
funny. We talked about working
for visionaries. I went to
439
00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:44,380
George. I sat down with him for
breakfast in San Anselmo was a
440
00:23:44,380 --> 00:23:47,080
town where we both lived, and we
sat down for breakfast, and I
441
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,040
said, Look, George, interviewing
with Elon Musk. I'm thinking of
442
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,660
going to SpaceX, and I would
love if you'd be so kind as to
443
00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:58,720
be a reference for me. And he
said, Oh, it's so exciting. And
444
00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:03,000
SpaceX and going to Mars. And I
wish I was 17 again and I could
445
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,760
do these things. It's
incredible, very excited. But he
446
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,280
and then he turns me, he said,
But, but, David, are you sure
447
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,780
you want to go work for another
nutcase? And I said, George, I
448
00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:15,360
don't, I don't call you a
nutcase. I call you a visionary.
449
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,300
He said, You know, that's just
code word for nutcase. So, you
450
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,700
know, but they're, you're both,
you know, incredible
451
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:26,540
visionaries. And I've got the
opportunity to go work for Elon,
452
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:29,840
which was also really
unbelievable, really amazing.
453
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:30,320
And
454
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,660
Kent Lindstrom: how is this
company possible? I mean, it
455
00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:37,100
goes from, I mean, just, how do
you imagine that you can build a
456
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:42,160
rocket, go to Mars, catch the
rocket backwards on a couple
457
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:48,040
chopstick like, who? I mean,
you've shared it, the engineer
458
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,800
describes what it's like,
catching it like it's catching a
459
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,480
lightsaber. Yeah?
460
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,120
David Anderman: You like, yeah,
Bill Riley said that Bill Riley
461
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,120
was one of the smartest,
loveliest guys, helps run the
462
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:00,720
starship program, has been
designing it. He said that
463
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,540
famously a few months ago. It's
like trying to catch us
464
00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:07,800
lightsaber, you know, falling
through the air with a pair of
465
00:25:07,860 --> 00:25:10,740
chopsticks, right? It's, I love
that. I totally share that I
466
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:13,500
think Bill is and Bill is the
best. He's like, you don't want
467
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:15,900
to be too early. You don't want
to be too late, yeah, no doubt,
468
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,500
no doubt, be careful where it
drops. But, yeah, I mean, it,
469
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:24,800
look, Elon is pretty amazing,
obviously. I mean, it's, it's,
470
00:25:25,220 --> 00:25:28,400
the vision is to make life multi
planetary by colonizing Mars.
471
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,620
You know, you know, he says it
to everyone. He says it. He's
472
00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:33,620
been saying it for 20 years.
Plus, you know, he's, he said it
473
00:25:33,620 --> 00:25:36,500
to me during my interview, like,
I want to die on Mars, just not
474
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,800
on impact, yeah. And what he
means is, like, and he said, you
475
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,920
know, he said during the
interview. He said, Look, I want
476
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,220
to retire in a self sustaining
colony on Mars by age 70, is
477
00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:48,400
what he said. And and he said,
you know, the reason I want to
478
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,860
make Starlink, and the reason
they brought me in primarily,
479
00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:53,740
was to help launch Starlink was
to help, you know, they didn't
480
00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:56,260
need help figuring out how to
launch rockets, obviously, or
481
00:25:56,260 --> 00:25:59,080
even doing contracts for
launching rockets. They really
482
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,900
needed my help thinking about
Starlink primarily. And what he
483
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:04,500
said was, look, I need you to I
need you to go help build this
484
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,340
Starlink thing and set it up so
that we can have enough capital
485
00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:11,220
to go to Mars. And he said it to
them, I was like, I think I need
486
00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:14,520
about $200 billion in capital,
and then I can, I can, I can get
487
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,320
to Mars, yeah. And, um, and so,
you know, that's what we did.
488
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,460
And you know, he just but he
envisions these things and he
489
00:26:22,460 --> 00:26:25,340
has these goals. He's not
motivated by money. I mean,
490
00:26:25,460 --> 00:26:28,700
people say this, but you see it,
he's not. He's motivated by
491
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:31,580
these visions, by these visions
of wanting to cheat us. So with
492
00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:35,120
Tesla, it was, you know, how to
make, you know, save the world
493
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,880
from climate catastrophe. You
know, get rid of climate change
494
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,960
by getting rid of fossil fuels,
getting rid of, certainly, you
495
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,460
know, fossil fuel based engines
for cars and trucks, and, you
496
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:48,280
know, that was his vision for
Tesla, and his vision for SpaceX
497
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,920
is to make life multi planet.
His vision for SpaceX still, is
498
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,200
that that's, that's his goal.
Yeah, that's number one goal in
499
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:53,500
life.
500
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,240
Kent Lindstrom: Yeah, that seems
kind of, I know people
501
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,520
criticize, though, and he's
doing this and that, and he's
502
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,840
trying to make more money. It's
like, on the one hand, what is
503
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,440
more money than he has like, I
think he's not. The only reason
504
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:04,620
he's
505
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:06,840
David Anderman: doing it for the
money is to look like he can use
506
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,540
the money to go to Mars. And
he's been consistent about and
507
00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:11,700
he keeps saying, he says it.
He's probably said the last
508
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:15,000
week, I'm pretty sure. And it's,
that's what he wants the money
509
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,120
for us to go to Mars. Yeah,
that's what it's for, even the
510
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,600
Tesla money. Now you want, he
wants to make enough money at
511
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,640
Tesla so you can have enough
money to go to Mars?
512
00:27:22,940 --> 00:27:25,040
Kent Lindstrom: Yeah, you have
to have a vision like that too.
513
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,500
It seems to me, to build
something that incredible. You
514
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:29,660
don't build those things. You
know, George Lucas wasn't like,
515
00:27:29,660 --> 00:27:32,600
Oh, I could make money on toys
if I could come up with a space
516
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,620
story. George had
517
00:27:33,620 --> 00:27:36,680
David Anderman: a vision, a
vision, obviously, a vision.
518
00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:41,320
And, you know, it's a and that's
the, you know, that's the
519
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,480
passion of of great
entrepreneurs and great, you
520
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,700
know, they're not doing it to
make money. They're doing it to
521
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,180
achieve this vision. There's not
even a business plan from Mars,
522
00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:52,720
right? There's no, there's no
grand secret plan of how they're
523
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,060
going to make money by going to
Mars. They're not going to have
524
00:27:55,060 --> 00:27:58,060
a real estate century 21 on Mars
to sell plots of land. They're
525
00:27:58,060 --> 00:28:00,660
not going to, there's no secret.
One time someone asked me,
526
00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:02,880
literally, when I was at SpaceX,
you know, are there secret
527
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,760
diamond mines on Mars, and
that's where they're going? No,
528
00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:08,340
right? There's no money. There's
no plan. There's no, like,
529
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,460
secret strategic document about
how we're going to make money
530
00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:14,460
going to Mars. What do you
realize is, look to get to Mars.
531
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:17,280
He used first principles, and he
figured out, okay, I got to make
532
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,800
reusable rockets. Ah, we could
probably make some money if we
533
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,220
make reusable rockets. Let's
make those. Then you have
534
00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:25,460
reusable rockets. Okay, so what
do we do with that we have we
535
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:27,980
can get to space really easily,
and we can launch things
536
00:28:27,980 --> 00:28:30,560
cheaply. We could launch a bunch
of satellites. What could we do
537
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,360
if we launch a bunch of
satellites? Hey, we could
538
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:35,120
deliver internet service. Let's
make Starlink, and that'll make
539
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:37,580
us a bunch of money, because
then we can get to Mars, right,
540
00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:41,680
right? That's, that's, that's
the thinking, and that's how the
541
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:42,640
business plan worked.
542
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:47,440
Kent Lindstrom: And so what is,
what is next? It's just with
543
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,860
like autonomous cars and with
like rockets being caught and
544
00:28:50,860 --> 00:28:53,980
going up and down to space every
other day, you just always
545
00:28:53,980 --> 00:28:57,220
imagine that being 10 years in
the future, 20 or some, some
546
00:28:57,220 --> 00:29:00,540
weird number in the future, not
being here. And it seems here
547
00:29:00,540 --> 00:29:04,740
with the rockets, what's next?
Like? When do people get like,
548
00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:08,760
What ship goes to is there a
colony ship or a space yacht
549
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,540
involved here?
550
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,020
David Anderman: This is what I
love. So I love one of those.
551
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:16,680
Yes, there is a colony ship.
It's called starship. It is
552
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,480
sitting on the launch pad down
in Boca Chica, Texas. It has
553
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,120
launched now, what eight times?
You know, they're still working
554
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,340
through the home of the bugs.
Obviously, they got to make sure
555
00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:28,100
it can launch and stay in orbit
and not blow up, and that's a
556
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,460
big thing, but that's how SpaceX
does things. But that thing has
557
00:29:31,460 --> 00:29:34,700
successfully reached orbit. It
has successfully gone around the
558
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:39,680
earth and softly touched down in
a test landing. You know, on the
559
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,560
other side of the Earth that is
a Mars colony ship. Starship is
560
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,160
designed to carry 100 colonists
on the six month journey to
561
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:54,100
Mars. And Elon's Elon is is
building the SpaceX is building
562
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:57,340
that wants to build hundreds of
these, and ultimately 1000s of
563
00:29:57,340 --> 00:30:02,460
these down in Boca Chica, Texas.
To send 1000 them at a time to
564
00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:05,460
Mars every two years. That is
the plan, and that's what's
565
00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:08,460
happening. This thing is flying.
This is not the future, right?
566
00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:12,420
This is like right now. I've
seen it twice. I saw the first,
567
00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:15,180
the IFT five when it launched,
and they did the catch of the
568
00:30:15,180 --> 00:30:19,920
booster. I was there. It was
unbelievable. And it is, it's
569
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,260
what people don't realize. And
that's what I feel people from
570
00:30:22,260 --> 00:30:24,380
the venture person, venture
perspective, right? It's like
571
00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:26,660
this is happening right now,
yeah, and the time at which you
572
00:30:26,660 --> 00:30:28,760
can make you know, Elon was
telling me all the time, when I
573
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,700
was at SpaceX, one of the things
he tasked me with was helping to
574
00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:34,400
figure out how to get methane
super cheap and super easily.
575
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,760
And like, he had me studying oil
and gas law, and how do we drill
576
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,800
for methane and Bucha Chica and
drill off shores from these big
577
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,280
oil rigs and be able to fuel
starship directly, you know,
578
00:30:45,340 --> 00:30:48,640
which is, you know, how do I
make the marginal cost of launch
579
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,520
as cheap as possible? And what
he's, what he says, and you've
580
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,860
heard him say it before. He says
it repeatedly. Said it to me
581
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,480
was, if I can get, you know,
fully reusable rockets, I can
582
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,260
reduce the cost to launch up to
250 metric tons to low Earth
583
00:31:04,260 --> 00:31:06,900
orbit. And I can do it for the
cost of a tank of methane and
584
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:09,600
liquid oxygen, which, if he
fully vertically integrates, he
585
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,760
thought he could get down to,
ultimately, about a million
586
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,060
dollars. Wow. That is mind
blowing. Like, if you could
587
00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:17,820
launch 250 metric tons for a
million dollars to low Earth
588
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:21,860
orbit. And that's, by the way,
that's easily within reach. We
589
00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:24,440
can argue, oh, it's going to be
2 million. It's going to be 3
590
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,680
million, whatever we're talking
about, another couple of orders
591
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,800
of magnitude of reduction of the
cost to get to low Earth orbit.
592
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,080
Yeah, knows he can get to Mars,
and that's why you keep hearing
593
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,180
him talking about it all the
time. That was with Trump.
594
00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:38,240
Trump's talking about it. Elon's
talking about it. He knows
595
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,020
they've now solved it. They've
gotten to the point where it's
596
00:31:41,380 --> 00:31:44,080
with some changes, you know,
changing software, changing some
597
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,160
hardware. They have the ship
ready to get to Mars, yeah. And
598
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,760
not only that, it's going to
also make access to space
599
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:55,840
generally. The Fringe Benefit
for everybody else is now you
600
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,440
can get to space easily. Yeah,
you can, you know, you can now
601
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,880
do anything in space. You can go
to the moon, you can do stuff in
602
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640
low Earth orbit. You can go
explore the solar system,
603
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,300
ultimately explore the galaxy,
because now you can get off of
604
00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:13,020
the confines of Earth very
inexpensively. Ultimately, for
605
00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:17,280
the cost of what it's like, it
is the cost of FedEx a kilogram
606
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,560
from Los Angeles to New York.
It'll be the same price to get a
607
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,760
kilogram of payload from earth
to low Earth orbit. And once
608
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,440
you're in low Earth orbit, you
can do anything.
609
00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:29,900
Kent Lindstrom: I mean, viewed
that way, the whole thing with
610
00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:32,540
him and Donald Trump and Doge,
it just seems like it's another
611
00:32:32,540 --> 00:32:35,660
hack for him. There's no doubt
to to get his damn thing to
612
00:32:35,660 --> 00:32:38,180
Mars. He's like, Well, if I
don't get the right faster. And
613
00:32:38,180 --> 00:32:40,540
David Anderman: what he saw was,
absolutely, look, I don't have
614
00:32:40,540 --> 00:32:42,880
any special inside knowledge
into it, but you could just see
615
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,640
he operates the same way every
time. And he says it, he says it
616
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,040
out publicly, and people just
don't believe him. They think
617
00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:51,280
Walter Isaacson recently was in
an interview, I think it was
618
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,100
last year, and he was saying,
you know, you know, Elon, you
619
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,380
know, he would say these things,
like about going to Mars and
620
00:32:56,380 --> 00:32:58,540
these big visions and
everything. And I kept thinking,
621
00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:01,560
Oh, he's just posturing for his
employees, and he's just saying
622
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,320
it to get them motivated. And
then I heard it again and again.
623
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,500
Once I heard it 20 times, I
finally realized, wow, he's
624
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:12,060
serious about this stuff. And I
saw the same thing. He just
625
00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:14,520
repeats these things again and
again and again, and he says it
626
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,040
out loud. He's saying to
everyone what he's planning to
627
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:19,500
do. So with respect to Doge, you
know, it was certainly the
628
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:23,240
support of Trump. It's like I
realized, look, Biden and Harris
629
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,640
weren't going to support me.
They clearly hadn't. They wanted
630
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,100
to, you know, all I was getting
regulatory hassles, and they
631
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:30,560
were using it for political
purposes, because they they for
632
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,920
whatever reason, they hated me.
And so I realized, if I go with
633
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,100
Trump, he was very clear, if I
spent a couple 100 million
634
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:40,240
dollars supporting this guy,
he's going to make it much
635
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,420
easier for me to get to Mars. Lo
and behold, the President of the
636
00:33:43,420 --> 00:33:46,660
United States, in his inaugural
address, talks about going to
637
00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:51,400
Mars, yeah, is it just repeated
it again last week. That's just
638
00:33:51,580 --> 00:33:55,360
he fully achieved his goal, and
all you had to do is spend a
639
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,280
couple 100 million bucks. Yeah?
That's
640
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,840
Kent Lindstrom: incredible. And
so you survive as I mean,
641
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,740
working for him cannot be an
easy thing. I think in the time
642
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,460
you were there for However, my
time, I think Tesla went through
643
00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:09,540
four general counsels,
644
00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:11,940
David Anderman: four general
counsels while I was at SpaceX,
645
00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:14,340
yeah, there's no doubt I had
started. Right when I started,
646
00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:17,220
he had just fired the General
Counsel of Tesla after two
647
00:34:17,220 --> 00:34:20,160
weeks. Oh, yeah. And then
proceeded to fire, like, while I
648
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,700
was there. I mean, I was
interviewing GCS at Tesla, like
649
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,060
all the time, because he kept
firing the GCS of Tesla. I was
650
00:34:26,060 --> 00:34:30,200
there. He's, he's tough on
lawyers. I will say that he's
651
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,280
tough on lawyers. And I was one
I had to send, you know, I
652
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,060
reported to Elon and Gwen. I had
to send Elon my weekly update
653
00:34:38,060 --> 00:34:40,820
every week with at least five
points of what I achieved that
654
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,320
week. And, oh, man,
655
00:34:42,619 --> 00:34:45,639
Kent Lindstrom: the president of
SpaceX? Everyone forgets
656
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,319
David Anderman: shot well. Glenn
Shotwell is the long time
657
00:34:47,319 --> 00:34:50,079
president, one of the first 10
employees at SpaceX. Still
658
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,479
there. Incredible, incredible
leader.
659
00:34:53,019 --> 00:34:54,879
Kent Lindstrom: Because when
NASA talks about SpaceX, and
660
00:34:54,879 --> 00:34:57,099
they want to avoid Elon, they
talk about how great she is.
661
00:34:57,279 --> 00:34:57,819
Yeah, right.
662
00:34:58,180 --> 00:35:01,200
David Anderman: She has fabulous
relationships. With, with NASA.
663
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,420
You know, she has fabulous
relationships with the
664
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:06,120
Department of Defense and the
intelligence community. She's,
665
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,640
you know, she's been in the
space business, or long before
666
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,400
she came to SpaceX, and has
really built it up, and has
667
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,220
incredible credibility, and has
the complete trust of Elon,
668
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,140
right? That's so she's super
credible and manage that stuff
669
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,940
unbelievable, and also knows how
not to get in Elon's way, right?
670
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Like, don't get between him and
Mars. Like he's smart. Make sure
671
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,200
you enable him. It's the same
thing that I, you know, did it
672
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,860
Lucas film, which is like, make
sure George can create whatever
673
00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:37,760
films and television and, you
know, digital and technology,
674
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,380
whatever he wants to do. We're
Our job is to make sure he can
675
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:44,980
do that, yeah. And that's what
Gwen's job is at SpaceX, right?
676
00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:48,520
And, and she's built an
incredible business doing just
677
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:48,760
that.
678
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,040
Kent Lindstrom: So it's not
enough of a career yet you move
679
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,740
on again. What is, tell me, Red
Rock media, I
680
00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:56,619
David Anderman: yeah, I think
this is, well, I had to finally
681
00:35:56,619 --> 00:35:59,919
merge the streams, right, right?
Like straight out of
682
00:35:59,919 --> 00:36:07,919
Ghostbusters, you know, when I
left SpaceX, you know, I I knew
683
00:36:07,919 --> 00:36:09,959
at that point, first of all, I
knew where launch costs were
684
00:36:09,959 --> 00:36:12,599
going, and I knew that, you
know, you could build these
685
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:16,079
constellations of satellites
incredibly inexpensively, and
686
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:18,599
you could do just about anything
in space, the things I'm talking
687
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:21,059
about. So I said, I want to
start a venture fund, because
688
00:36:21,059 --> 00:36:23,239
people are going to take
advantage of this. And advantage
689
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,179
of this and and so I met up with
couple partners, and we put
690
00:36:26,179 --> 00:36:28,399
together a fund, and launched
that fund, and now we're
691
00:36:28,399 --> 00:36:31,639
launching our second fund. We're
raising we're targeting 75 to
692
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:34,219
100 million dollars. We already
did our first close. It's going
693
00:36:34,219 --> 00:36:41,019
really well, so, but I never
lost that itch of the space
694
00:36:41,019 --> 00:36:45,879
media stuff. And while I was at
SpaceX, I got there, and again,
695
00:36:45,879 --> 00:36:48,579
when I first got there, I
thought to myself, Okay, I'm
696
00:36:48,579 --> 00:36:51,099
never doing another producer
deal or agent. I don't have to
697
00:36:51,099 --> 00:36:53,859
deal with agents. I have to deal
with distribution deals. Never
698
00:36:53,859 --> 00:36:56,979
gonna have to deal with any of
that stuff again. And literally,
699
00:36:56,979 --> 00:37:00,599
two weeks later, a guy named PJ
van Sanjay comes in with Tom
700
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:03,419
Cruise and Doug Lyman, and they
want to flight to space so they
701
00:37:03,419 --> 00:37:06,479
can make a space movie on the
ISS like, two weeks after I got
702
00:37:06,479 --> 00:37:09,839
to SpaceX, and I'm like, oh my
god, this is crazy, right? It
703
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:12,539
just just, you know, I try to
get out. They keep pulling me
704
00:37:12,539 --> 00:37:17,519
back in. And I realized very
quickly, and you know, that the
705
00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:20,479
media opportunities in space are
just massive, right? People love
706
00:37:20,479 --> 00:37:23,119
space content, science fiction
is almost always the most
707
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:26,479
profitable films that are made
because people love space. They
708
00:37:26,479 --> 00:37:30,559
love science fiction. And also
realize, you know, look, this
709
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:33,679
opportunity to go to Mars is
going to be massive, right? And
710
00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:38,059
that, and I went to Elon, and I
said, Look, when, when we land
711
00:37:38,059 --> 00:37:42,039
the first human on Mars, that
will be the biggest media event
712
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:45,279
in human history when Apollo
astronauts landed, you know,
713
00:37:45,279 --> 00:37:48,459
when, when Neil Armstrong took
the first step on the moon. At
714
00:37:48,459 --> 00:37:52,599
that point, it was a 93% Nielsen
share, which means that 93% of
715
00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:56,019
the televisions in the world
were tuned in to watch him. Do
716
00:37:56,019 --> 00:38:00,039
that live, right? If 93% of the
people, the 8 billion people on
717
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:04,199
the planet watch, you know, the
first human take a step on Mars,
718
00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:06,959
probably going to be a woman, is
my guess. But you know, whoever
719
00:38:06,959 --> 00:38:09,539
it is, everyone's going to watch
that. It's going to be the
720
00:38:09,539 --> 00:38:12,299
biggest media event in human
history. And so Elon agreed.
721
00:38:12,299 --> 00:38:14,399
He's like, Oh, that's huge. I
said we should take advantage of
722
00:38:14,399 --> 00:38:17,159
that opportunity. That's a multi
billion dollar opportunity all
723
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:21,019
by itself. And he had me, put me
in touch with Ari Emmanuel at
724
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:26,899
WME, you know, obviously a very,
very famous talent agent and and
725
00:38:26,899 --> 00:38:29,839
we with at WME, and a lot of
people there, and also even
726
00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:32,779
worth working with CAA as well,
another big agency, we just
727
00:38:32,779 --> 00:38:35,779
worked out, you know, the
opportunity, and I worked on it
728
00:38:35,779 --> 00:38:37,879
while I was there, and when I
left, you know, there's really
729
00:38:37,879 --> 00:38:40,479
Elon doesn't have, there's Not
like, marketing and media
730
00:38:40,479 --> 00:38:44,079
people. There's not filmmakers.
There's barely anybody at SpaceX
731
00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:46,659
or at Tesla. The dude does those
things. He doesn't believe in
732
00:38:46,659 --> 00:38:49,059
advertising. He doesn't believe
in doing those stuff, those
733
00:38:49,059 --> 00:38:53,199
things. And so when I left, it
kind of died and but I couldn't
734
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:57,759
get out of my head. And so I ran
into a guy I worked with a long
735
00:38:57,759 --> 00:39:00,759
time at Lucasfilm, who ran
distribution, and we started
736
00:39:00,759 --> 00:39:02,979
talking about it. I said, You
know what? We should just start
737
00:39:02,979 --> 00:39:05,339
what? We should just start a
company to do this and start,
738
00:39:05,339 --> 00:39:08,879
not only try to document the
human mission to Mars, but just
739
00:39:08,879 --> 00:39:11,819
make content about humanity's
expansion of cosmos. And that's
740
00:39:11,819 --> 00:39:14,939
what became red rock media. So
Red Rock referring to Red Rock
741
00:39:14,999 --> 00:39:20,419
as in Mars, right? And we formed
that and raised some money for
742
00:39:20,419 --> 00:39:22,639
it, and have been working on
content. We've been in
743
00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:24,919
discussions with SpaceX for a
long time about a lot of
744
00:39:24,919 --> 00:39:28,339
different content. We've filmed
a short film about the starship
745
00:39:28,339 --> 00:39:31,099
launch, which is available on
our website, about one of the
746
00:39:31,099 --> 00:39:34,639
starship launches from the
perspective of a welder. We're
747
00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:37,279
working on a TV show right now.
We're calling go for launch,
748
00:39:37,279 --> 00:39:40,359
which is kind of like, think
about like, imagine like, f1
749
00:39:40,659 --> 00:39:43,719
drive to survive. But with space
companies, these, all these
750
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,239
space thump companies that I
deal with, spice startups that I
751
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,179
deal with all the time, they're
really interesting characters,
752
00:39:49,179 --> 00:39:51,879
right? There's lots of elons and
people who are visionary, and,
753
00:39:51,879 --> 00:39:54,399
you know, lots of people working
in the trenches and people who
754
00:39:54,399 --> 00:39:56,679
have become passionate about
space. You see that in this
755
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:59,079
little movie we made about this
welder didn't know anything
756
00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:01,499
about space has now. Become
passionate about making life
757
00:40:01,499 --> 00:40:04,499
multi planetary. And there's all
these kinds of stories. So
758
00:40:04,499 --> 00:40:07,319
that's the stories you want to
tell and go for launches, about
759
00:40:07,319 --> 00:40:10,259
these companies all competing
with each other and cooperating
760
00:40:10,259 --> 00:40:12,359
with each other and working with
each other and against each
761
00:40:12,479 --> 00:40:15,599
other, constantly fighting with
each other and trying to achieve
762
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:17,759
these incredible things in
space. And so we're we've
763
00:40:17,819 --> 00:40:20,299
started production on that as
our first show. So
764
00:40:20,299 --> 00:40:22,099
Kent Lindstrom: who's, does
someone have the rights to the
765
00:40:22,099 --> 00:40:26,359
the 100 people on the starship
like, filming that SpaceX does?
766
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,639
Oh, wow. That's, I mean, that's
going
767
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,560
David Anderman: to be a show,
yeah, right. No doubt, that's
768
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,100
what I'm
769
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:33,620
Kent Lindstrom: excited about.
Real Housewives in space. Like,
770
00:40:33,620 --> 00:40:34,220
that's, yeah,
771
00:40:34,220 --> 00:40:35,960
David Anderman: it's like, I
sometimes joke. It's like, it's
772
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,600
like, you know, big brother,
it's gonna be covered with
773
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,600
cameras, right? Yeah, it's
everywhere the ship, of course.
774
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,720
You know, it's going to be like,
big brother meets survivor,
775
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:46,180
hopefully, meets love Island,
right? I mean, it's going to be,
776
00:40:46,180 --> 00:40:48,820
of course, right, love and drama
in space, because the the
777
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:50,740
journey, like, you're going to
have incredible things
778
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:52,780
happening. You're going to have
the launch, right? Amazing.
779
00:40:52,780 --> 00:40:55,240
Everyone's going to watch that.
Then you have this six months,
780
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:57,100
and you have the build up,
right? You have who's going to
781
00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,260
get selected, who's going to go,
and, you know, why are they
782
00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:02,520
going to go, and why would they
want to be there? And then you
783
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,460
they launch, and then you have a
six month journey to Mars,
784
00:41:05,460 --> 00:41:07,800
right? So you're going to really
get to know these people, right?
785
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:10,380
You're going to, you're going to
live broadcast every day, but
786
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:12,840
it's got to be great, right? It
can't just be turn on the camera
787
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,940
and see what they're doing and
right? Why don't we float around
788
00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:17,640
in space? It's got to be like a
you got to have someone who
789
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,360
helps create a story. You know,
among it, I'm not saying are
790
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,540
officially created story. I'm
saying the best non scripted
791
00:41:23,540 --> 00:41:28,520
television has a story as a plot
that they pull out of the things
792
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,460
that are really happening. And
so you make that kind of a story
793
00:41:31,460 --> 00:41:33,920
of that six month journey, and
then you're really going to
794
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,820
care. Do they live or die when
they land? Yeah. Is the landing
795
00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:40,280
going to be successful? That's
why everyone's going to watch
796
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,660
it. Yeah. Be successful, you
know? And then even better,
797
00:41:43,660 --> 00:41:47,620
they're going to live on Mars,
right? And you have endless
798
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:50,800
stories to tell about what life
on Mars is going to be like,
799
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,760
right? And that's why I'm so
excited about Red Rock media. I
800
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,700
mean, our goal is to make it
like the discovery media for
801
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,680
Humanity's expansion of the
cosmos. That's our goal. And so
802
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,140
it's not as big as, you know,
Elon's goal, but it's a pretty
803
00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:09,720
big goal. And I think we can do
it because it's, it's, you know,
804
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,400
adventure is kind of dead on
Earth. If you could pay someone
805
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,240
$15,000 to take you to the top
of Mount Everest, and you can
806
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:22,280
take a beautiful cruise on a
four season ship, to the edge of
807
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,920
the Antarctic shelf. And they'll
literally put, literally have
808
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,380
pictures of this. They'll put a
table with a white tablecloth
809
00:42:27,380 --> 00:42:30,380
down next to the penguins, right
where Shackleton died. And
810
00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:32,600
they'll put, and they'll and
they'll put champagne on your
811
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,780
table and caviar. And you can
have, you know, brunch on the
812
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,800
Antarctic ice shelf like there's
no adventure. There's only a few
813
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,640
things. And you can do some base
jumping, and, you know, try to
814
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,920
get into, you know, a
submersible, to go down to see
815
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,340
the Titanic, if you want to.
But, you know, it's, it's,
816
00:42:49,060 --> 00:42:51,820
there's no adventure left on
earth. And that's why, I think
817
00:42:51,820 --> 00:42:54,040
the, you know, one of the
biggest things about going to
818
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,380
Mars is it's going to be the
biggest adventure in human
819
00:42:56,380 --> 00:42:59,500
history. People will die, and
it'll be like going into the
820
00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:01,860
wild west. It'll be like, just
like people who went on the
821
00:43:01,860 --> 00:43:04,800
wagon trains, or people who got
on the Mayflower and came, came
822
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,520
to, came to the Americas, and,
you know, they're probably going
823
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,160
to die, right? But it grand
adventure. And you write a lot
824
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,620
of stories about it's going to
be people want to hear those
825
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:16,140
stories, and people want to
participate in those stories.
826
00:43:16,140 --> 00:43:18,780
They want to do it. And that's
what I think is so exciting, and
827
00:43:18,780 --> 00:43:21,560
something I want to, you know,
make content, man, I
828
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,260
Kent Lindstrom: can't wait for
the future. So we come, at long
829
00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:28,640
last, you're now a venture
capitalist investing in these
830
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,220
space companies. This thing has
opened up now, making the
831
00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:34,880
future, that's right, and you
have these points in history
832
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,460
where the internet comes and a
bunch of companies emerge, and
833
00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:41,080
the mobile comes and a bunch of
companies emerge, and now I
834
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,720
guess access to space comes and
a bunch of companies emerge. And
835
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:46,180
is this what you're investing
in? 100, 100%
836
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:51,100
David Anderman: so I started as
a lawyer 1993 1994 in Silicon
837
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:53,920
Valley, right? Just as the
internet was starting, I got my
838
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,000
first email address, right then,
you know, and you know, all
839
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,320
these companies I remember, you
know, I remember going to the
840
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,900
partner at the law firm who was
the former general counsel of
841
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:06,540
Intel, and as a partner at my
law firm. And I went to him, and
842
00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:08,820
I said, you know, I really want
to try to get some IPO shares.
843
00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:11,340
This company called Netscape.
It's doing this incredible
844
00:44:11,340 --> 00:44:13,620
stuff, and you'll be able to
browse the internet. It's going
845
00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:15,900
to be amazing. This guy, Mark
Andreessen, he knows what he's
846
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:18,420
doing, and he's talking about
that's not a real business. It's
847
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:20,780
going to go away. Blah, blah,
blah. And then there's these
848
00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:23,720
company like Cisco, right? Like
making these routers that are
849
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,180
connect people in space. Now
these pipes exist. Now we have
850
00:44:26,180 --> 00:44:28,580
to connect people with these
boxes that are connect people.
851
00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:31,280
And then, you know, there's
these crazy guys who are saying,
852
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,740
I'm gonna sell books on the
internet, right? It's gonna be
853
00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:35,780
great. And you're gonna start,
ultimately, you'll buy
854
00:44:35,780 --> 00:44:38,180
everything on the internet, you
know, okay, let's go forget that
855
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:41,540
wacko, right? And that's what it
was like in the mid 90s, going
856
00:44:41,540 --> 00:44:44,320
into late 90s. And then 90s. And
then obviously we know what's
857
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,220
happened. You know, most of the
Fortune 50 are these internet
858
00:44:48,220 --> 00:44:51,580
companies. Now you have the same
thing happening with space. We
859
00:44:51,580 --> 00:44:55,120
now the pipes are there, the
reusable rockets are the pipes,
860
00:44:55,540 --> 00:44:59,500
and the access to space is
there, and it's cheap. Okay?
861
00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:03,360
Done. Now that now that's today.
Now you're seeing all these
862
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,660
companies that are going to be
the Ciscos and the Amazons and
863
00:45:06,660 --> 00:45:09,420
the, you know, the the companies
like Netscape, you know,
864
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:12,300
ultimately, you know, browsers
that the huge browser wars
865
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,320
that's happening right now. And
you can invest in those
866
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,620
companies because they exist.
They're being formed right now.
867
00:45:20,220 --> 00:45:22,760
And if you put money in them,
are going to succeed. There's
868
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,640
plenty of examples of internet
companies to succeed, but some
869
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,700
of them are going to be the next
SpaceX, the most valuable
870
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,360
private company in the world
today. SpaceX is a space company
871
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,940
that nobody thought was going to
be successful and doesn't have a
872
00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:38,120
business plan for their mission,
right? Yep, there's going to be
873
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,440
a lot more like that. And so now
is the time to invest in those
874
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,800
and that's why I got into making
a venture fund to invest in
875
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,140
those companies. And it's super
exciting, right? What could be
876
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:50,560
more exciting want to invest in,
you know, SAS middleware, or
877
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,660
for, you know, financial
transactions, or whatever the
878
00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:55,000
hell it is. Or do you want to
invest in a company that's
879
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,020
making cool rocket thrusters,
you know? And go, you know, one
880
00:45:59,020 --> 00:46:03,540
of the last some months ago, I
went and drove a moon rover in a
881
00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:06,000
parking lot, and this company's
actually going to bring that
882
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,700
rover. It's called astrolab, is
bringing that rover to the moon
883
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:12,360
the next year. Wow. And, you
know, I work with Firefly, like
884
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,180
Firefly just landed all its own
lander on the moon. They just
885
00:46:15,180 --> 00:46:20,460
yesterday, last night, took the
first picture of a eclipse of
886
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,620
the earth, of the Sun by the
Earth from a moon rover. And
887
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:27,800
they just posted, it's amazing
photo. That's incredible. We
888
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,720
actually helped them. We
actually went out there last
889
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:32,660
March, me and a film producer
friend, helped them kind of
890
00:46:32,660 --> 00:46:35,240
figure out, where do you want to
put the cameras, and what angles
891
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:37,940
do you want on your rover, on
the lander, so that you get
892
00:46:37,940 --> 00:46:40,900
great shots. And, you know, they
took the advice, and they got
893
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:43,960
some incredible shots. They've
been publishing in the last few
894
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,320
weeks. And, you know, it's,
again, it's amazing. You get to
895
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,740
do this stuff that you get to,
you know, invest and help these
896
00:46:50,740 --> 00:46:54,820
entrepreneurs that are going to
change the course of Humanity.
897
00:46:54,820 --> 00:46:57,880
That's, that's, if you can't get
excited about that, yeah, what
898
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,360
you're going to get excited
about. So that's why we do the
899
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,760
venture foot. Successful venture
900
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,800
Kent Lindstrom: capitalists say
they try to be helpful. It's
901
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,460
kind of a cliche. I'm not sure
I've heard the I bring Lucas
902
00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:12,720
Film, sort of advice to how to
take a picture of Earth from the
903
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,900
moon. Yeah, value add, yeah.
904
00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:18,060
David Anderman: You know, like,
I have to say, no, look, I bring
905
00:47:18,060 --> 00:47:22,340
the value it's, you know, for
what it is. You know, I've had
906
00:47:22,340 --> 00:47:24,920
some experiences that are that
are helpful, certainly to, you
907
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,280
know, big visionaries who want
to do things but, and I
908
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,680
certainly saw how things are
done at SpaceX, and learned a
909
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,780
lot in a very short time there.
But, you know, I bring the
910
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:38,480
SpaceX mafia to the table, which
is helpful as well, right? You
911
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,660
know, like this company is worth
three, $50 billion there's a lot
912
00:47:41,660 --> 00:47:44,560
of engineers there who are now
have enough money to go take the
913
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,900
risk of starting their own
companies, and there's a lot of
914
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:49,780
them doing it. We invested in
one company called Argo. Three
915
00:47:49,780 --> 00:47:53,440
brothers from SpaceX, the
Carlyle brothers, who all left
916
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,200
SpaceX at the same time. They
grew up together in Houston,
917
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,840
dreaming of running their own
space company. They ended up as
918
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,640
engineers and at SpaceX, you
know, one ran government sales,
919
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,820
one ran launch operations. One
was working on reusability of
920
00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:09,540
the Falcon nine and Falcon
Heavy. And they left at the same
921
00:48:09,540 --> 00:48:12,240
time and started a company. They
want to be the ice truckers of
922
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:14,820
space. They want to be the guys,
remember, from the expanse, that
923
00:48:14,820 --> 00:48:17,700
transport the ice around the
galaxy, around the solar system.
924
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,500
They want to be those guys who
collect the ice, and then
925
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:24,380
transport around the world. And
they're started by making these
926
00:48:24,380 --> 00:48:27,380
incredible water based
thrusters, two types of water
927
00:48:27,380 --> 00:48:29,840
based thrusters. And they're
building an orbital Transfer
928
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,020
Vehicle, basically a space tug
that can move things around in
929
00:48:33,020 --> 00:48:35,840
space at high, high delta V.
It's called very hot, very
930
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,620
quickly. And you know, that's a
great example of the SpaceX
931
00:48:39,620 --> 00:48:42,160
mafia. And it's just no
different than the PayPal Mafia,
932
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,800
which Elon was part of, and, you
know, Peter Thiel was part of.
933
00:48:45,220 --> 00:48:48,640
All of these guys are, you know,
Reid Hoffman, all of these guys
934
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,700
left after the great success of
PayPal and started these
935
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:54,460
incredible other companies. And
that is absolutely happening
936
00:48:54,460 --> 00:48:57,100
right now in the space business.
Yeah. And my partner, Celeste
937
00:48:57,100 --> 00:48:59,980
Ford, she's kind of a legend in
the aerospace business. She
938
00:48:59,980 --> 00:49:02,520
won't tell you because she has
to kill you, but it's, it's out
939
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,640
there on the internet that she
actually helped run the military
940
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,760
space shuttle program in the 80s
and 90s, and then, when she left
941
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,140
the military, started a 300
person aerospace engineering
942
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:16,620
firm called stellar solutions.
And you know, that's our secret
943
00:49:16,620 --> 00:49:19,500
sauce. Like we have access to
unbelievable technical
944
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:22,880
diligence, unbelievable access
to markets, market information,
945
00:49:23,060 --> 00:49:25,820
unbelievable access to to, you
know, the people who are
946
00:49:25,820 --> 00:49:28,400
spending the money in the
government in particular, but
947
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,940
also the big primes on space
programs, and we bring that to
948
00:49:31,940 --> 00:49:35,180
our entrepreneurs. So it's
proved to be a very great
949
00:49:35,180 --> 00:49:39,020
combination. Our first fund was
25 million. It's up. It's TV. Pi
950
00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:42,460
is now 1.49 which is great. No,
J curve. I don't even know what
951
00:49:42,460 --> 00:49:46,420
a J curve is, but we don't have
one and and now that we're we're
952
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:48,820
raising our second fund, hoping
to be $100 million
953
00:49:49,539 --> 00:49:51,399
Kent Lindstrom: you're also spot
not supposed to know what a
954
00:49:51,819 --> 00:49:54,039
military space shuttle is as I
understand it. Yeah,
955
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:55,899
David Anderman: exactly. That's
what the selection said. She
956
00:49:55,899 --> 00:49:58,359
keeps telling me she's going to
have to kill me, but I keep
957
00:49:58,359 --> 00:50:00,839
telling it's on the internet. I
said. Celeste, it's on the
958
00:50:00,839 --> 00:50:04,139
internet, and she's like, No, I
can't confirm or deny that
959
00:50:04,139 --> 00:50:06,359
that's what I did or did not do.
So
960
00:50:06,359 --> 00:50:09,119
Kent Lindstrom: the space lady's
name is Celeste. Is that Celeste
961
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:09,359
Ford?
962
00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:11,399
David Anderman: Yeah,
appropriately, no. She insisted
963
00:50:11,399 --> 00:50:13,679
we're it's, we're separate from
stellar solutions. But she
964
00:50:13,679 --> 00:50:17,099
insisted on sticking she loves
the name stellar. She uses it in
965
00:50:17,099 --> 00:50:19,259
conversation all the time. So
she said, we have to call this
966
00:50:19,259 --> 00:50:21,919
stellar ventures, because
that's, good luck for me. And I
967
00:50:21,919 --> 00:50:24,379
said we were me and my other
partner, Matt, who's the finance
968
00:50:24,379 --> 00:50:26,119
guy. He was like, we're like,
okay, fine, let's do it.
969
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:28,280
Kent Lindstrom: It is so
fortuitous that her name is
970
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,560
totally I'm on season two of the
expanse. Should I keep going?
971
00:50:33,860 --> 00:50:36,320
David Anderman: Oh my god, yeah.
Better and better and better.
972
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,380
Less zombies, you know, and
more, you know, sort of the
973
00:50:39,380 --> 00:50:42,520
drama of like the politics,
politics and the drama of space,
974
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,420
but done really, really well. I
think, I think the expanse is
975
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,540
fantastic. It's maybe one of
those rare examples where the
976
00:50:49,540 --> 00:50:52,120
show is even slightly better
than the books. The books are
977
00:50:52,180 --> 00:50:54,760
great. I've read all the books,
but the show is really
978
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,940
fantastic, and absolutely you
should keep watching it.
979
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:02,100
Kent Lindstrom: Let me I'll wrap
up on this. This is just someone
980
00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:05,520
personally curious about, do you
want, like, the Drake Equation?
981
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,660
Like, what that is? As I
understand the Drake Equation,
982
00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:13,560
people are like, Well, if
there's alien life, like, why
983
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,580
has it in time? Why hasn't, why
haven't they shown up here? Yep,
984
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:20,720
it's a Fermi paradox. Yeah,
exactly. And so the drink
985
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:23,540
equations is kind of this long
equation. It's like, well, you
986
00:51:23,540 --> 00:51:26,000
know, what's the probability
that there's a planet that works
987
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,520
and then that someone could live
on the planet, and that they can
988
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,460
build, they don't kill? I don't
know something like that.
989
00:51:31,460 --> 00:51:33,440
David Anderman: Well, just add
up a number of it's really just
990
00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:37,220
an equation that was created
that that said, Okay, if we
991
00:51:37,220 --> 00:51:40,280
assume there's X number of stars
and X number of planets and X
992
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,660
number of habitable planets, and
that life was created in X
993
00:51:43,660 --> 00:51:46,600
percentage of those. It was all
tiny fractions. And think about
994
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,000
this. They were doing this. They
did this on the time in the in
995
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,180
the 30s and 40s, where they
didn't even know that there were
996
00:51:52,180 --> 00:51:54,760
so many planets. Now we know
there's planets everywhere
997
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,460
because we found them 1000s and
1000s of everywhere. Look, we
998
00:51:57,460 --> 00:52:02,400
see planets so and then the the
Fermi Paradox. Enrico Fermi
999
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,500
famously asked at a lunch, you
know, I don't think it was, I
1000
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:06,840
don't know if it was at the
Manhattan Project or something
1001
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,260
in the 40s, 50s, asked at a
lunch, you know, in Los Alamos
1002
00:52:10,260 --> 00:52:12,840
or something, where he said, you
know, okay, well, if it's so
1003
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,300
obvious that it's gonna there's,
there's, there's aliens, where
1004
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:18,180
are they? You know, why are they
not here? And then a lot of
1005
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:19,980
things have come up with,
theories have come up about
1006
00:52:19,980 --> 00:52:23,120
that, which I particularly kind
of subscribe to, which is that,
1007
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,560
well, the time scale is so long,
right? It's billions and
1008
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,200
billions and billions of years
to use, you know, to quote Carl
1009
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,640
Sagan, billions and billions.
It's such a long time scale.
1010
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,400
Humans have only been around for
a few 100,000 years, and we've
1011
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,280
only been writing for 5000 and
we've only been going to space
1012
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,640
for 75 right? Not even. And so
think about that time scale of
1013
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,060
humanity. You know, 75 years,
100 years, even if you say 1000
1014
00:52:49,540 --> 00:52:53,140
years, it's such a tiny fraction
of the scale of the universe
1015
00:52:53,380 --> 00:52:56,620
that it's very unlikely we
actually overlap with any of
1016
00:52:56,620 --> 00:53:00,600
these other intelligent species,
even if it's 100% guaranteed
1017
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,140
obvious that there are other
intelligent beings probably in
1018
00:53:04,140 --> 00:53:07,800
our galaxy, much less in the
universe. And so that's the big
1019
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,320
question, right? And I was
literally, we were just me and
1020
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,440
some friends were talking about
this at dinner. Max, how is a
1021
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,100
good friend? He's the CEO of
vast which is trying to build a
1022
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,180
space station, the first
commercial space station, and
1023
00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:22,940
they're doing a great job, and
he's a good friend, and we were
1024
00:53:22,940 --> 00:53:26,360
literally last night at dinner
with our kids and our wives,
1025
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,460
talking about this exact issue.
And, you know, I think you know,
1026
00:53:31,580 --> 00:53:34,820
one possibility is time horizon
too long. Another possibility is
1027
00:53:34,820 --> 00:53:37,700
that, you know, people destroy
themselves. Civilizations
1028
00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:40,600
destroy themselves. It's called
The Great the Great Wall, right,
1029
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,980
right, the great filter, yeah,
that civilizations end up
1030
00:53:44,980 --> 00:53:47,800
destroying themselves through
nuclear war, you know,
1031
00:53:47,980 --> 00:53:52,960
pandemics, or what have you.
And, and, you know, again, I
1032
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,720
think that's possible. But I
think one of the programs I'm
1033
00:53:55,720 --> 00:54:00,960
on, I'm on the board of a group
called the Galileo Project out
1034
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,600
of Harvard. It's run by a guy
named Avi Loeb. He's the, he's
1035
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,120
the, he's the head of the
Astronomy Department. I've had
1036
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,740
Kent Lindstrom: him on the
podcast. Oh, there you go.
1037
00:54:07,740 --> 00:54:11,340
Obviously, great. So I talked
about a muammua, that thing.
1038
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,320
Well, there you go. So his
1039
00:54:13,319 --> 00:54:15,959
David Anderman: hypothesis, and
I look, I believe it, I'm I sit
1040
00:54:15,959 --> 00:54:18,839
in on his our general meetings
every month. You know his
1041
00:54:18,839 --> 00:54:21,679
hypothesis is that the best way
to look for Intelligent Life in
1042
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:24,619
the Universe is by looking for
their artifacts. In the same way
1043
00:54:24,619 --> 00:54:27,379
that we look for artifacts of
ancient civilizations on Earth.
1044
00:54:27,379 --> 00:54:29,659
People ask, Well, why aren't we
seeing them all? We can barely.
1045
00:54:29,659 --> 00:54:32,659
I mean, we didn't even find the
Mayan temples on these little
1046
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,419
1000 years after they'd been
lost in the jungles. Like we
1047
00:54:35,419 --> 00:54:37,879
can't even find it on earth. How
do you think we're going to find
1048
00:54:37,879 --> 00:54:42,279
it in space? But we can look for
their technological detritus, as
1049
00:54:42,279 --> 00:54:45,339
it were, like the junk, the
space junk, like the Voyager
1050
00:54:45,339 --> 00:54:50,259
craft, is just like that, that
Star Trek movie where Voyager
1051
00:54:50,259 --> 00:54:53,319
goes off and gets captured by
the aliens, and they return it,
1052
00:54:53,319 --> 00:54:55,779
they bring it back, and that's
the whole lot. It's that's
1053
00:54:55,779 --> 00:54:57,639
exactly the story, right? It's
exactly the
1054
00:54:57,639 --> 00:54:59,559
Kent Lindstrom: thing, yeah,
should we be broadcasting into
1055
00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:00,899
space? Well, we
1056
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:02,280
David Anderman: are, doesn't
matter, right? You know, you
1057
00:55:02,340 --> 00:55:06,300
watch contact, right? I mean,
the Nazis are, are here, right?
1058
00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:09,600
That's the first broadcast
aliens. God, we heard you. Yeah,
1059
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,480
right. We're doing it. So we are
broadcasting space. I don't
1060
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,060
think it matters, whether we're
specifically pointing it in a
1061
00:55:15,060 --> 00:55:18,360
particular direction or not. I'm
not sure about that, but it's
1062
00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:21,240
it. We are. We're announcing our
presence to the universe. It's
1063
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:24,560
probable that whoever's
listening is dead, right, right?
1064
00:55:24,620 --> 00:55:26,780
Or their AIS, and then they're
going to come and, you know,
1065
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,240
come, take over whatever, or
they don't care, or they don't
1066
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:32,960
care, right? You know, or we're
like, in the in, you know,
1067
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,720
anthill, in, in the desert,
right? We do they don't care.
1068
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,980
Um, but so I don't think that's
an issue, but I think we should
1069
00:55:39,980 --> 00:55:42,160
be looking, I mean, it is the
fundamental question of
1070
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,740
humanity. Peter Beck just
posted. There was an article
1071
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:46,780
posted about Peter back the
interview. I read it this
1072
00:55:46,780 --> 00:55:48,940
morning, and Peter Beck was
talking about that either
1073
00:55:48,940 --> 00:55:51,580
sending a probe both to Mars,
but also sending them to Venus
1074
00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:55,060
to look for signs of life on
Venus. I think one of my
1075
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:58,720
hypothesis, I said, I'll leave
you with this. I think when we
1076
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:02,340
go to Mars, there's a decent
chance that what we find there
1077
00:56:02,340 --> 00:56:06,840
is basically DNA, you know, not
human DNA, but you know the
1078
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:11,340
earliest forms of DNA, bacterial
DNA, and that, what that will
1079
00:56:11,340 --> 00:56:16,740
prove to us is a couple of
things, right? Either life is
1080
00:56:16,740 --> 00:56:19,500
ubiquitous, right? It grows.
It's easy to for it. The
1081
00:56:19,500 --> 00:56:22,340
Lightning in a Bottle can happen
on if it happens on two planets
1082
00:56:22,340 --> 00:56:24,980
in one solar system, and if it
be finding on Venus, even more
1083
00:56:24,980 --> 00:56:28,700
so three planets in our solar
system. All three have evidence
1084
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:32,000
of life. That means that life is
ubiquitous in the universe,
1085
00:56:32,060 --> 00:56:36,260
okay? Or it means that it got
transferred from one planet to
1086
00:56:36,260 --> 00:56:38,660
another. Maybe a meteor hit it
and a rock came up and it had
1087
00:56:38,660 --> 00:56:41,120
DNA on it, and boom, it went to
the other planet. Still don't
1088
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,780
know where it came from,
ultimately, but who knows. But
1089
00:56:43,780 --> 00:56:48,760
the third option is that someone
seeded it. The panspermia theory
1090
00:56:48,940 --> 00:56:53,560
is that some intelligent life
sent out automated, self
1091
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,700
replicating probes that contain
DNA, and intentionally were
1092
00:56:57,700 --> 00:57:01,680
Johnny Appleseed for the whole
galaxy, and not on this, on the
1093
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,660
planets that could support life,
life bloomed. All three are
1094
00:57:06,660 --> 00:57:09,900
super interesting, and I would
love to explore that further.
1095
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,260
Kent Lindstrom: The future is
cool. Thank you. Thank you for
1096
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:17,100
doing this. What? How do people
find you? Your firm? Easy.
1097
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:20,159
David Anderman: Just Google.
David Anderman, you'll find me.
1098
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:22,699
It's pretty easy. There's a
couple others, but not many.
1099
00:57:23,179 --> 00:57:27,439
David Anderman, Lucasfilm, David
Anderman, stellar ventures. You
1100
00:57:27,439 --> 00:57:31,699
can see our website, svc.vc, you
can find Red Rock Media Group,
1101
00:57:31,879 --> 00:57:36,439
net. You can look me up on
LinkedIn. I'm pretty easy
1102
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,000
Kent Lindstrom: to find.
Alright. Thanks so much for
1103
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:38,600
doing this.
1104
00:57:39,019 --> 00:57:41,239
David Anderman: This is awesome.
I really enjoyed talking about
1105
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:42,519
it. This is cool. This is
1106
00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:44,079
Kent Lindstrom: cool. This has
been the something Metro
1107
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:49,479
podcast, David Ander With my
guests, talk to you next
1108
00:58:02,679 --> 00:58:02,979
time you