Monetizing and Increasing the Intellectual Property of Your Podcast with David Segura

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You're listening to The Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
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If it's radical, we cover it.
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Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
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Hey, guys.
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What's up?
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Welcome to the latest edition of The Radcast, Ryan Alford, your host.
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We're getting radical.
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We're getting radically meta today, talking to the founder, the CEO of Glassbox Media.
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What's up, David Siggura?
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Doing great.
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How are you?
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I'm great, man.
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Appreciate you coming on.
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I'm excited to talk podcasts.
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Hey, anyone that's coming on to tell me that podcasts are exploding.
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It's the smartest decision anyone can make, but it starts to stroke my ego a little.
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So I appreciate it.
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Okay, happy to do it.
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I'm being sincere.
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So it works for both of us.
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I know exactly.
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It's good for you.
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Good for us.
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I know we'll get down that road.
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Here in Manhattan there, I both, we talked pre episode, I both miss it and don't miss
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it a bit.
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Can't deny the energy, but it grows on me.
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I'm glad to be back in a little bit of slower South Carolina, but it probably does fuel
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the energy daily.
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I'm sure that it does.
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New York is unrelenting after seven years or so.
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I still not totally used to it, but I've learned to embrace it.
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You have to.
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It's the only way.
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And I loved it.
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I like the frenetic nature of it, but as you get older, you want to end raising kids.
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It's not the best place to raise a family.
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Not because it's like bad or give it a bad rap about being dangerous or something.
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I never felt and not in at a danger, but these are more green grass and certain things.
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So raising the family here in South Carolina, but it's not about me, David.
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I want to hear.
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And I know I can't wait to get to talk more about glass box and all the stuff that's
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going on there.
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But let's set the table for everybody and tell them a little bit about that backstory
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on you, man.
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Yeah, definitely.
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So I was born in Houston, but I grew up in El Paso, Texas.
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Really enjoyed it.
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Smaller town moved a lot slower, nothing like New York.
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Then I wanted to change a place.
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And I ultimately went to University of Chicago, loved it out there, had a great experience
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good education, but it was too cold for a Hispanic guy at Northwest Texas.
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I just couldn't hack it.
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So the first chance I got, I was out of there.
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So I moved to Los Angeles, really enjoyed it, did some consulting, which was not the
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best fit.
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Hats off to anybody working at a big company, but for me, I learned early on that that
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wasn't really like my bag, and I want to be a little bit more entrepreneurial.
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So started out as a junior employee at several media companies, had a good experience, and
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that all eventually led to me starting this company called Giant Media.
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Giant Media was like this native video exchange, which in plain English, we used to help companies
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in entrepreneurial brands, create videos, and tell stories.
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We would find out essentially the best place to propagate that, whether it was a publisher,
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or alternatively, these apps coming from this new social network that people probably have
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heard of called Facebook.
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Early on in Texas, it's great outcome for us, but we had no other choice.
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We'd get some credit sometimes for being innovative and embracing Facebook early, but
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as a small company, we decided to bet the farm on it, ended up being right.
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So we scaled that out with some amazing help.
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People like Mike Dubin from Dollar Shave Club and others, and as a result of that, had amazing
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clients like Heineken-Loriel, you name it, and eventually got acquired by this big
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holding company called AdMellage.
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That was itself backed by TBG and JMI, so that was an amazing outcome.
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We worked our tails off, but it was almost existential.
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We achieved what we wanted to do, and I was thinking like, what the hell do I do now?
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And so that was the story of Giant basically.
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That's cool, man.
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That's fascinating.
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When you start talking about the video network platform, it was, remind me, it's kind
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of like early programmatic in a way.
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Is that, would that be a good way of summarizing it?
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Very much so.
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It was all built for scale.
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Our biggest clients were all on the demand side, so they were those huge media agencies,
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which I know you're familiar with, the OMDs are the way, the publics, all those guys.
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It was personal, it was strategic, but it was also very transactional.
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It was for the most part automated self-serve, and then we did do some contextual buying
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as well with them.
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So it scaled nicely, we learned a ton, and eventually we got bought by this company
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that had ambitions to scale over the world.
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An amazing set of people, really funny.
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I spent my two years after making sure the integration went through, but then immediately
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after that, decided to take some time off, was mildly burned out, and I felt I needed
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to do that for myself, and glad I did.
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It's good.
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You have to recognize it yourself.
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Too many of us don't get too far all the other into that, and they can go south or further
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south quickly.
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So it hats off to you a lot to be learned out there for entrepreneurs, like knowing
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and understanding how to take care of yourself.
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So would you call, would you classify yourself?
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I have these discussions with clearly an entrepreneur, clearly a marketer on many levels.
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Are you a technical marketer or are you a visual marketer?
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Where's your passion at?
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You seem like you got a little bit of both.
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I would say this, that'd probably be more of the technical marketer camp, but like everybody,
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I think I'm a visual person.
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I'll start by saying, I'm not like a true CTO, like my co-founder, a giant, is that guy.
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He gets to, he's what I consider to be a true technologist.
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That's not me.
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I'm more of a dreamer, like a big thinker.
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I like strategy.
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I try to feel like the gaps in the market, and then obviously assemble a good team and
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push them really hard, so that's what we did.
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So our whole vision there was just trying to figure out how do we help people scale video?
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How do we do something different from pre-rolls, something more personal and personalized?
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We just happened to capture the trends a little bit quicker than a lot of other folks.
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So we were very fortunate to have our exit in 2014, and obviously, I think the choir did
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really well too, so that's great also.
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That's cool.
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We exit there.
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We take a little break.
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We dabble in a few things.
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When did the podcasting start to hit your radar, and you know, before we have hard down
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the glass box, rabbit hole, talked to me about what you've been seeing, what kind of
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led to the podcast trade for you?
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Yeah.
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So I'll say this is a little bit of cliche, but at least in my experience, it ended
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being true.
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I did want to start another business.
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I know I'm more of an entrepreneur than I am an investor, but it took some time to
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get there.
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Like this whole break, for example, it was like five years.
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It was a long time in between of starting this business and kind of getting started.
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So essentially what I was doing during that time is investing in all sorts of companies
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from like CPG to media.
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The audience has probably heard of some of them.
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Companies like Liquid Death, Hawthorne, the clone company, Grove Collaborative, Ease,
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Cannabis Company, a whole bunch.
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And while it didn't relate, obviously, directly to podcasts, later on, it did.
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And seeing what people did well, what they didn't do well, I just started to get more
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passionate about getting back in the game.
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And then it was almost like having a hard to heart myself.
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I have a lot of interest.
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I'm like, literally ADHD.
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And so at a certain point in time, though, I just thought, you know what, I'm a media nerd.
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That's what I get to get back to.
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That's always been my sweet spot and that's where I can add the most value.
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Let's do this.
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So in 2020, we essentially just got the band back together.
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A lot of folks from the giant media team were interested in doing something.
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It took us about six months to figure out exactly what that was, but multiple members
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of the founding team wanted to focus on podcasting, which I was passionate about.
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But I'll be the first to say not an expert at the time.
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And the reason why we chose it is just that we thought it was a really interesting way
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to improve the lives of creators, essentially the podcast host and figure out a way to invest
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in them, sometimes literally, to increase the value of the IP.
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So our whole vision for a class box is that we're extremely bullish on the concept of
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improving IP really quickly through podcasting.
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We think it's like a foothold or told and to anything.
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It's great at the standalone product, but adaptation opportunities, whether it's books,
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live events or TV.
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We really think it's endless.
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And we're just at the beginning stages of this now.
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Yeah.
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You're saying you're singing from the playbook.
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We're in the choir together.
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I don't know if you're preaching, I'm preaching, but I'm amenin in the back.
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Hallelujah.
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In the good Southern Baptist church, when anybody was literally like vibin with what the
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pastor was saying, wanna make them feel good, they go, amen.
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I gave you some digital and real amans from the pastor in the soapbox, but it's been fascinating
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to me with marketing.
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Everybody is tired of ads.
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Like everybody's aware more of marketing than they've ever been before.
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And they don't want, we're interrupting.
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And so we're podcasting place for me is in this alternative media world for brands and
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opportunities for like how you bring content to life in a way that maybe promotes a person
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of brand of product, but it's kind of like the notion Pepsi's, Pepsi will have a TV station
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one day.
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Like you're seeing this convergence of media and brands and commercialism and all that
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stuff.
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And podcasting to me is like at the forefront of like this alternative media opportunity
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because it has so many arms and legs because once you start creating content and doing
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what we're doing right here, the offshoots of that are endless.
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Like you said, books, other adaptations, but there's just, it is IP, it truly is.
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It's a unique piece of content that can be used in different ways, manipulated different
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ways, and then turned into alternative forms of media things.
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So it's really fascinating time that we're in.
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I'd agree.
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And just to give you another example, I've mostly been a digital guy.
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Obviously, that's what I'm passionate about, your classic startups, but I've also dabbled
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in investing in TV catalogs and probably the most well known is daughter and don't give
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me wrong.
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I'm super biased, but it's a great show who doesn't love season Milan.
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But the fact of the matter is it's been almost 15 years since it's been on TV and even
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with that, we've been able to license that old catalog to Pluto TV overseas, Latin America
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and Europe.
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And here in North America, with at least the right now, Disney plus.
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So the reason I bring that up is that even though it sounds bombastic, impossible, almost
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borderline wrong, I really do think podcasting is evergreen.
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And I really think that the staying power is there.
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So with a straight face, I'll tell you that I think podcast catalogs will eventually rival
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TV and music catalogs as well.
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So I think that realization is a new one, but people with much bigger checkbooks and bigger
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brains and I have started to realize that really recently.
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So I'm excited to see what this goes from here.
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I love that.
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The radcast started five years ago and I always saw it as immediate entity.
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Maybe I had the T-sheet being a marketer and kind of writing that, starting the train.
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But like we've started the radcast podcast network and like we've got three or four new shows
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coming under our umbrella.
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And so I look at it the same way.
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It's like that IP and like it's it.
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The more shows you get under the umbrella, the more opportunities like the high tide raises
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all ships.
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Right.
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And so those synergies with sponsors with content with the interplay of guests and hosts
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and different things, even if they're not exactly down the same line or vertical, there's
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just so much there.
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And I think there's, you saw this trend with like COVID and things like that where podcast
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can went high because a lot of people had maybe more time and it started to level off
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a bit.
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But I think now we're probably just what we've done is we're just kind of back now on
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that natural growth plane for the media.
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And I like, I both like and don't like, but that it's cool a bit with just new players
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coming in because it takes a lot to build a show.
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It's a lot of work.
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That's it.
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It's just complex and it's easy to get started.
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It's hard to have longevity.
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Yeah.
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And all things in life, you gotta be consistent.
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And I will tell you at the risk of annoying you, I was that guy working with like really
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star creators, our team and myself, especially just underestimated how many mad hours
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goes into doing it from research to practice, to production, to editing, it's just like
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mind blowing.
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So my hands off to anybody who does it like a year over year, much less like five years.
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That's amazing.
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Yeah.
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I was hit three, it's gonna be like episode three, 50 somewhere in that range.
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We did two week for and look, I started, I worked for others for 17 years and this started
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radical already at agency, I started the rad cast and started really going heavy with
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my personal brand.
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Those three things all started really about the same time five years ago, most of the
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day, like right here, March, April, May of 2018.
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If you put them on an axis of time and growth, they all three are almost identical.
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The revenue of the agency, the growth popularity, listenership and sponsor opportunities at
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the show.
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And then the popularity of my personal brand, because we've interplayed all three and
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leveraged one against the other.
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And so it, but it takes that consistency, I had one client, and I was recording two
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podcast weeks, which in some ways made no sense at all.
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It wasn't like impacting, but people as well as freaking crazy, but five years later,
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they don't.
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But people have to, but it's still early.
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And I think people just need to realize the opportunities there.
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I agree.
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I agree.
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And that's a big part of our vision.
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So just taking a step back, because a lot of people do ask us like, what is glass blocks?
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There's a lot of folks in this space.
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People even use like the saturated words sometimes, especially those that are involved in media.
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And I'll just take a step back and just say that we model this company, essentially almost
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like a record label, like personal heroes of myself and my co-founder, include folks
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like David Geffen, Boston, folks like that.
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So the way we see yourselves and the way we see ourselves operating in the world is
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that for the most part, we're not building a tech platform from scratch, whether it's
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a riverside, a megaphone or a twist.
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Instead, we're trying to sign up star creators across multiple thematic genres, comedy,
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exciting culture, business, and financing name it.
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And what we try to do is figure out ways to grow their audience where it's helpful, we'll
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actually make an investment in them to become a minority partner in the whole franchise.
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And then of course, we're also executing on large-scale brand partnerships, whether
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it's like people that just are already spreading the gospel, the podcasting like athletic
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greens and better help, but also our former clients that giant, which to us, surprisingly,
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even though they like the space, they don't know a lot about it yet.
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And they need more education than we thought.
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But the good news is that behind the skins and the on days of the world are not only
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buying through glassbox, but they're waking up to the idea that, yeah, you're right.
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There is a lot of data and third party analytics that can gather from podcasting.
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It should complement my social media and video investment, which is obviously already long
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since established.
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So we're getting there.
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We just think we entered this market as a company, maybe more soon than we did with giant
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and video.
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We honestly thought we were going to recreate that whole experience, but we found out actually
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for the biggest brands in the world, brand awareness, things like that, we're evangelists.
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And we're happy to put on that hat.
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We think we're well equipped to do that, and we're well on our way towards accomplishing
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that.
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Yeah, it's so interesting, fascinating, and talking with David Segura, CEO of Founder
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of Glassbox Media, glassxmedia.com.
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So a lot to unpack there with the platform.
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I have a lot of questions as a podcast, producer, owner, et cetera, and trying to, with
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the best interest of the leaders of the listenership, it's not all selfish here, folks.
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We're thinking about you, but in all seriousness, David, like, how does, when a show, when you
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identify a show or you're adding, do you guys own the IP or does the original of the show
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on the IP?
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Are you just sharing profits or are you taking ownership of the entire IP of the show?
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Great question.
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And there's no perfect answer in terms of like, how do you structure versus how you don't,
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but I'll just tell you at a high level what we do.
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Part of the reason we've been able to grow so quickly, like literally January 2021 is
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when we've really started focusing on podcasting.
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We've gone from obviously having zero podcasts with zero monthly listeners to having just
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under 80, under exclusive multi-year contract.
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And we collectively reached just under 12 million monthly listeners.
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So it's scaled up pretty nicely.
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The way we've organized the businesses that we're targeting folks that already have a passion,
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have been doing this maybe for years in most cases, and have an audience, not always,
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but typically of at least 150,000 listeners or downloads every single month.
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In some cases, much more than that, like almost 2 million with Chris, fit, and and sleep
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but to get to the point what we're typically doing is we are actually offering a revenue
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share.
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But the big catch and a positive way is that we're giving you the greater of that revenue
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share or a minimum guarantee.
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And the reason we're doing that is that we have to put our money where our mouth is.
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If you're independent, you enjoy that, you're your own boss, you're a control of your editorial
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vision.
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If you want to take on a partner, it's a risk of some sort, and so to justify that,
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you want to show you that we're going to be able to accelerate your earnings and at
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the same time, respect and leave you in control of your editorial vision.
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So that's like the core of the business.
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The compliment is that in the tackle of the IP question, that's literally top concern
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for every single creator that what you just jumped to immediately is like what they're
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most concerned about.
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And it's straightforward, but their biggest anxiety is that they're going to lose control
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somehow.
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So the way we structure our deals is they're twofold.
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We have our exclusive multi-year agreements that are rev shares with them, G's, that
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doesn't involve any IP participation.
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But we also offer typically a development deal, which is this entertainment, Lingo, of course,
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for an investment.
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And we try to structure it so that we give you X dollars.
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And that basically entitles us to anywhere from five to as much as 30% stake.
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We try to keep things aligned.
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We want you to be incentivized.
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We also don't want to alter the direction of the show.
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But we want to mutual incentive to work together to develop opportunities, whether it's in
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book publishing, live events, TV, or all the above.
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And there's a risk here.
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So in other words, it's creator friendly clearly to be in the minority position.
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But some of our investors have like rightly been critical, at least in some extent.
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And they've said stuff like when push comes to shove, if you're the minority partner,
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let's say that you zealously argue that they should do something or not do something.
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You ultimately can't make them if you're a minority partner.
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They're right.
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Our bet here is that running a portfolio with many podcasters is going to be over the
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long term financially a lot more valuable than pretending we have the best taste and that
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we should do everything from the ground up and with less shows.
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That's our vision.
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And that's why we're comfortable taking the risk and trusting creators and ultimately
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leaving them in control.
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Really interesting there.
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And hats off to you for seeing that vision and what would work with ultimately what makes
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it all run, which is the creators and the shows themselves.
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Congrats there.
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And I can understand the risk side of it with the investors too.
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I totally can't see both.
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But let's let's explain a little bit, get underneath what glatz box is and what it isn't.
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I think you've described what it is.
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But when people think about distribution of shows now today, and let's just let's focus
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on audio just for the sake of simplicity.
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You've got all the distribution channels, Apple podcasts being probably number one, number
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two.
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You've got Google's.
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You've got I heart radio.
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You've got all the Spotify, obviously.
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So this is where shows get distributed, listening to and depending on the audience and depending
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on whatever apps people have on their phone or computers or whatever for listening.
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Glassbox is not some platforms.
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Try to keep all the listens and watches happening on their platform.
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I'm not hearing that from you.
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What I'm hearing from you is you're fine with it's being seen and viewed and getting
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as much distribution on all those channels as much as possible.
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It's more everything around it.
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The ads and sponsors, the inter service here, am I understanding that correctly?
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You're exactly correct and it's a deliberate choice of the team made, including myself,
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but also we tried to pattern match with other industries and what we think they're going.
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But one comment I'll make that I'm sure you know is that podcast discovery is hella hard.
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That's still the central issue I think of the whole industry and I met a lot of really
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talented people, whether they're producers or hosts, that know they're going to produce
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a kick-ass show.
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They know they're going to do a good job.
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And so they rightly assume that they're going to blow it out in terms of audience.
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So whether they find out is that no, maybe not actually, it's very difficult, takes years
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of work, some luck, momentum, you name it.
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So we decided that we wanted to be in the content game, but we wanted to basically pick
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you back off existing distribution and it's exactly those places you talked about.
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So an eye heart, it's on Apple, it's on Spotify.
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So we signed someone up, I mean to give you an example, we signed a show called Practical
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Stoisa with Tanner Campbell, Tanner's great that shows about philosophy.
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But the message within the message is essentially that it appeals for a reason mostly to young
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men, that's 90% of the audience, that want to figure out ways to level up, whether it's
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the personal life or their career and apply these lessons of Stoisa to that.
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Obviously, probably generously inspired by Ryan Holliday's, like Daily Stone Show as
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well.
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So starting with 200,000, which is material, we were able to grow that to almost triple
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that in a period of just three months.
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So we make a deliberate decision that we're going to get in business with folks that have
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got some traction, have a relationship with the audience, and then we'll think of ways
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to make that more scalable, both on the marketing and monetization side.
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And that's the business decision we've made.
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We're seeing now though that other industries are exploring this as well, as an example,
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Bob Iger at Disney, now that he's back there, he was the first to admit that look in
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a perfect world, all our Disney IP, which he argues is the best in the world, would just
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stay here and use it, we'll use it to grow Disney plus and maybe the other property
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museum.
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What they figured out now, and he's very tactful, he's very professional, a fortune
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500 CEO about it, but what he's really saying is that if someone wants to overpay for
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something and license it for peacock, maybe, or paramount plus, we'll do it.
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In other words, our content should live wherever we can get the highest return for ourselves
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and shareholders.
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And I think it just goes back to that classic marketing conundrum.
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Do you want to use your IP to basically grow this and only this, or in some cases doesn't
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make sense to propagate that in multiple places and take in the licensing fees or the
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additional audience, which converts into revenue.
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We've made our choice, and so we very much believe in the fragmented model, the distributed
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model, and that's why when investors tell us rightly, maybe we should explore building
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a listening app, etc.
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I'm like, we could, maybe we can gather some really interesting audience data, but from
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a consumption standpoint, a revenue driver, it's not the strategy.
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We want to piggyback off of the existing distribution, and that's elsewhere.
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I'm going to be real transparent right here.
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David, the reason I wanted you on the show once your team had reached out was of what
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you just said.
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I think it's smart.
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I think it's the way to go.
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I think these walled gardens that seem to make sense, don't make sense for how the
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audience listens and scattered.
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And so why not tap into all that audience to build the IP because look for a show to
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grow more sponsors, more things that needs more audience.
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If you put it behind a walled garden, it's just limiting the opportunity.
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Period.
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I think it's brilliant, and I think it's the smart way to be doing it.
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You don't need me to tell you that.
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But as a creator and a podcast host, that's the way it's got to be.
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I'm just going to make no sense.
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See these guys, like a couple of like peers and things like that.
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They go, I'm going to go over here on whatever it is because they get lured by some of
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these platforms.
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I won't name any of them.
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I'm not trying to badmouth like one person or platform, but I'm just like, dude, why
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are you going to cut your legs off?
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You're just going to, you're alienating the audience that you've built, whatever it is,
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you think they're going to follow you.
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They're not all going to fall.
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Maybe 10% will.
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And you have to start all over again.
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And so it's fascinating to me.
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I'd agree.
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And I think this trend will accelerate because the thing that's happening behind the scenes
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is that it's awesome as podcasting is, it's growing week over week, year over year.
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A big driver is also radio.
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Radio is still huge.
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It's almost a $40 billion a year industry.
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And obviously that's slowly atrophies and comes to podcasting as it should.
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But those advertisers, they want performance.
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They immediately, hence the promo codes and everything like that.
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We love those advertisers.
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We're not trying to be disrespectful in any way.
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But I'll say that increasingly, the Johnson and Johnson's, the Heineken's, the Palatins
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of the World.
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Those are the folks that are going to dominate.
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00:25:17.260 --> 00:25:19.740
And they're very preoccupied with reach.
467
00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:23.260
So even if you have a good incentive, financial otherwise to regulate your distribution to
468
00:25:23.260 --> 00:25:26.780
one simple listening platform, it's going to hurt you in terms of where the world is
469
00:25:26.780 --> 00:25:27.780
going.
470
00:25:27.780 --> 00:25:30.460
Because once they say yes to you, they say yes on everything.
471
00:25:30.460 --> 00:25:34.980
They want your back catalog, they want your current episodes, and they want to maximize
472
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:35.980
reach.
473
00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:41.940
So if you just have your audience or worse, you literally just have your revenue opportunity.
474
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:49.340
And you started to go real close, I'm going to take you one step further, is what people
475
00:25:49.340 --> 00:25:54.420
are realizing is, and it's going to be crazy, like we get approached with, we have four
476
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:55.420
title sponsors.
477
00:25:55.420 --> 00:26:00.820
I do all live reads, we have no other ads ever laid, all individually negotiated.
478
00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:05.140
And I only do brand of ad deals, what I mean by that.
479
00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:08.260
I do know, we want to do your show for two weeks.
480
00:26:08.260 --> 00:26:13.340
And we want to run this, we'll put a code if we sell something, and look, they want
481
00:26:13.340 --> 00:26:18.580
the podcast to generate something that marketing can't do, which is someone hearing an ad
482
00:26:18.580 --> 00:26:21.380
one time and taking an action.
483
00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:22.380
Come on, man.
484
00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:25.460
If it worked that way, it would be too simple.
485
00:26:25.460 --> 00:26:30.400
You got to build brand and you need reach and frequency, and that's where I want to see
486
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:35.180
more of the bigger brands come in to seeing the exposure opportunity.
487
00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:40.060
We all know impressions aren't all in all created equal, but I can tell you this, a two
488
00:26:40.060 --> 00:26:44.100
minute live read, which is where sometimes I go to, because I just get into whatever
489
00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:46.540
we're talking about and I build it into the storyline.
490
00:26:46.540 --> 00:26:53.380
The impact of that versus your 30 second pre-recorded, whatever, I would put it at 100X, the impression
491
00:26:53.380 --> 00:26:58.740
level, and what it does, and that doesn't mean that my audience goes and buys X product,
492
00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:05.380
but it's the level of the authenticity, and it's the frequency, and there's just not
493
00:27:05.380 --> 00:27:07.460
all impressions are created equal.
494
00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:12.560
I'd agree with that, and the market's evolving, like you're obviously in a great position,
495
00:27:12.560 --> 00:27:15.220
if brands will embrace that, they obviously believe in your show, so they're willing
496
00:27:15.220 --> 00:27:16.220
to do it.
497
00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:19.460
But the experience for most podcasts is a little different, and they're going to be in
498
00:27:19.460 --> 00:27:20.460
that test bucket.
499
00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:25.180
In other words, anywhere from 1X to 3X, that's what they're going to test, and on the basis
500
00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:28.700
of that quick test, they're literally going to get a renewal for the rest of the year,
501
00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:29.700
or they're not.
502
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:32.100
So it's crazy, but that's usually the model.
503
00:27:32.100 --> 00:27:35.260
The one nice thing that we're pushing back on, and I think other people are, too, to
504
00:27:35.260 --> 00:27:39.940
be fair, is that we've come to recognize, in most cases, we can't get them to switch off
505
00:27:39.940 --> 00:27:40.940
that model.
506
00:27:40.940 --> 00:27:41.940
That's fine.
507
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:45.060
But what we do tell them is that we're going to serve the spots dynamically.
508
00:27:45.060 --> 00:27:48.740
So to clarify, it's not going to be, like, randomly in mid-sentence or anything, but we
509
00:27:48.740 --> 00:27:54.020
do pre-record the host's red ads, so that when, let's say, sponsorship is over, whether
510
00:27:54.020 --> 00:27:58.700
it's one month or 12 months, we reserve the right then, at that point, to maybe switch
511
00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:00.700
out a Heineken for a Budweiser.
512
00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:04.100
And that's one of the ways that we're able to keep things ever green, and keep that revenue
513
00:28:04.100 --> 00:28:05.580
potential going.
514
00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:10.140
We've had some pushback, but that's because I think, to your point about reaching frequency,
515
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:13.740
I think they know that, but they know that even if they decide not to move forward
516
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:17.340
with you, if something is baked in or there forever, they're probably going to get a few
517
00:28:17.340 --> 00:28:21.340
more hits on that, and then that might actually serve their needs.
518
00:28:21.340 --> 00:28:23.380
But it may not serve the podcast or the audience's needs.
519
00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:27.420
So we're trying to bounce that, and to be fair, we found that most brands, they're
520
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:29.540
willing to play ball, mediates these two.
521
00:28:29.540 --> 00:28:30.540
They just want to be successful.
522
00:28:30.540 --> 00:28:34.740
So if you can convince them, they're willing to try things at scale.
523
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:35.740
Yep.
524
00:28:35.740 --> 00:28:41.260
And the secret sauce is in the middle, like, the big brands they want, the dynamic, they
525
00:28:41.260 --> 00:28:42.260
want all that.
526
00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:44.220
The ones at the bottom probably can't afford it.
527
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:49.300
The middle brands, people, brands that are new, but already successful, and have seen
528
00:28:49.300 --> 00:28:53.340
the success they can have podcast, they'll play a little bit longer game and understand
529
00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:58.300
some of the values of the impressions over just pure volume.
530
00:28:58.300 --> 00:29:03.780
And I'm going to look, I think we have 130, 40,000, that was a month or something like
531
00:29:03.780 --> 00:29:04.780
that.
532
00:29:04.780 --> 00:29:05.780
So we're up there.
533
00:29:05.780 --> 00:29:10.260
But it's, you've got, I don't know, mine's a big authenticity thing.
534
00:29:10.260 --> 00:29:14.100
I think the next phase for you guys, which is what I've done is I get a lot of leverage
535
00:29:14.100 --> 00:29:17.500
because my personal brand, I'm verified on every platform, I have a million followers
536
00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:19.100
across all channels.
537
00:29:19.100 --> 00:29:21.540
So when you buy the show, you buy me.
538
00:29:21.540 --> 00:29:26.660
And so it's leveraging all those things and getting your creators behind that would
539
00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:27.660
be a up-shoot.
540
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:28.660
I'm sure.
541
00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:29.660
And that's what folks want.
542
00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:33.660
At the end of the day, whether it's a personal endorsement or not, it is.
543
00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:37.300
Like when you agreed to select something and you put it on the show, people do read
544
00:29:37.300 --> 00:29:38.300
into that.
545
00:29:38.300 --> 00:29:40.740
And so I think the brands are just to be fair getting a great deal.
546
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:44.940
So that's why when we're going after some of these new folks, so we haven't not signed
547
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:48.460
yet, but not going to what we do, kind of aggro folks like that.
548
00:29:48.460 --> 00:29:49.460
I think they get it.
549
00:29:49.460 --> 00:29:52.980
They understand that it's a special relationship and it's a great way to promote whatever they're
550
00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:56.380
trying to do, whether it's Annie's popcorn or Slim J.
551
00:29:56.380 --> 00:29:57.380
Yeah.
552
00:29:57.380 --> 00:30:05.380
But your platform makes a lot of sense for people that have a good product or they're
553
00:30:05.380 --> 00:30:10.180
a good show, but maybe they're not, the marketing acumen is not there and you're willing
554
00:30:10.180 --> 00:30:11.180
to invest in it.
555
00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:14.340
It's again, I read through it and once I understood it, I'm like, this is a no brainer.
556
00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:18.540
If you're like a show and you got a little traction, but you just need some ammunition
557
00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:24.580
behind you, this just makes a lot of sense for that sweet spot of shows and that.
558
00:30:24.580 --> 00:30:28.300
And I think that's a good number because it's just a messy world out there.
559
00:30:28.300 --> 00:30:32.740
And a lot of creators spend a lot of time doing things and they let the art of the craft.
560
00:30:32.740 --> 00:30:36.020
But this stuff isn't, is natural to them.
561
00:30:36.020 --> 00:30:39.980
And so there's a lot of great shows out there that don't get the following that they should.
562
00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:45.500
I think it's exactly it and in my experience, most people have the chops to do it if they
563
00:30:45.500 --> 00:30:46.500
needed to.
564
00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:48.780
They're just not staffed or like really executed.
565
00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:53.340
So most of the creators we've talked to have been doing sporadic, let's say, host red
566
00:30:53.340 --> 00:30:57.140
ads with like shows that they respect and they're thematically relevant, but inevitably
567
00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:58.500
there's only so much time for that.
568
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:00.580
It falls off and it's not consistent.
569
00:31:00.580 --> 00:31:04.260
So one of the things that we do is we make sure to not only continue that for them, but
570
00:31:04.260 --> 00:31:07.460
we also record trailers and then we swap those.
571
00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:12.020
In an automated way, we basically track very carefully what they contribute versus what
572
00:31:12.020 --> 00:31:16.740
other people contribute, how much of those listens basically turn into either downloads
573
00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:19.180
or subscriptions to the RSS feed.
574
00:31:19.180 --> 00:31:22.620
And then the crazy part that blows people's minds is that we literally trade millions of
575
00:31:22.620 --> 00:31:26.260
impressions every single month with we jokingly call frenemies.
576
00:31:26.260 --> 00:31:31.300
So whether it's milk or flatwalls, push in media or cast media in LA, they're doing
577
00:31:31.300 --> 00:31:34.780
deals where literally no money is changing hands, but literally we're mutually lifting
578
00:31:34.780 --> 00:31:38.620
each other's boat and increasing revenue simply by swapping relevant audience.
579
00:31:38.620 --> 00:31:41.660
And I think it works out really well for us.
580
00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:47.700
So let's give some value out there to our listeners because we do, we have a good number
581
00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:51.140
of people that have started or have podcasts.
582
00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:56.300
And obviously first selection would be let's get on glass box media or at least talk to
583
00:31:56.300 --> 00:31:58.060
you see if it's right fit.
584
00:31:58.060 --> 00:32:03.180
But how can podcasters out there promote their show better?
585
00:32:03.180 --> 00:32:04.180
How can they get?
586
00:32:04.180 --> 00:32:10.940
Obviously, some of the tools and technologies you guys have, but what are the any like at
587
00:32:10.940 --> 00:32:15.020
home tactics for people that have a show they're trying to get some popularity, any things
588
00:32:15.020 --> 00:32:16.020
in your checklist?
589
00:32:16.020 --> 00:32:17.020
Sure.
590
00:32:17.020 --> 00:32:21.860
What I'd recommend for most people is to like go out and identify like mine did hosts
591
00:32:21.860 --> 00:32:25.420
that you think you like and you respect that are relevant.
592
00:32:25.420 --> 00:32:28.860
And if you start basically swapping host reads for each other that are sincere and
593
00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:31.340
enthusiastic in nature, that'll help.
594
00:32:31.340 --> 00:32:35.860
The other thing too is to create trailers and what they could do in theory is automate
595
00:32:35.860 --> 00:32:37.300
some of these swaps.
596
00:32:37.300 --> 00:32:42.700
So if you have let's say a mid row with three ad breaks on that, probably not all of them
597
00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:46.220
are sold out between host red ads and programmatic.
598
00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:49.860
Instead what you'll do is just use some of that to basically swap with other people.
599
00:32:49.860 --> 00:32:53.380
And if you want to track conversions, what we use internally is chartable, which was
600
00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:58.020
recently acquired by Spotify and we're able to track in real time like how well you know
601
00:32:58.020 --> 00:32:59.820
that these spots are actually performing.
602
00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:04.580
So we treat them like marketing needs advertising, no money changes hands, but it's really critical
603
00:33:04.580 --> 00:33:06.220
to growing the audience.
604
00:33:06.220 --> 00:33:10.100
And then not everybody has the capacity or time, but PR.
605
00:33:10.100 --> 00:33:14.020
One of the things that we'll do is leverage not only our PR team, but we'll even reach
606
00:33:14.020 --> 00:33:19.580
out to Apple Spotify and while sometimes we don't get a response, it's nature of the business.
607
00:33:19.580 --> 00:33:23.820
On a very regular basis, we've been able to get some of our podcasts featured as top
608
00:33:23.820 --> 00:33:27.860
category like in philosophy, society and culture you name it.
609
00:33:27.860 --> 00:33:30.340
And the podcasters I think can do that too.
610
00:33:30.340 --> 00:33:33.220
It's just difficult because at the end of the day, it's easier for them sometimes to
611
00:33:33.220 --> 00:33:36.340
build a relationship with a company that works with multiple podcasters that they choose
612
00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:37.340
from.
613
00:33:37.340 --> 00:33:41.020
But ultimately, I will say, I know a lot of Indies get routinely selected for things
614
00:33:41.020 --> 00:33:42.020
like that.
615
00:33:42.020 --> 00:33:45.300
And if they're just after it, they believe in their show when it hits, it'll hit.
616
00:33:45.300 --> 00:33:48.980
So I think that's another tactical way of creating value for yourself.
617
00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:49.980
I love that.
618
00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:53.340
I love the shared shows of that one in that.
619
00:33:53.340 --> 00:33:57.420
And I'm doing a middle check like I need to do that more because I know I've met a lot.
620
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:58.420
And you're in the business.
621
00:33:58.420 --> 00:34:02.860
You just start to meet the same people like they're like what I'm doing shows or whatever
622
00:34:02.860 --> 00:34:03.860
it seems to gravitate.
623
00:34:03.860 --> 00:34:05.940
You're in the same spaces and all that.
624
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:11.860
And it tends to also bring like the listeners and to always to somewhat gravitate to the
625
00:34:11.860 --> 00:34:12.860
audiences.
626
00:34:12.860 --> 00:34:14.340
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
627
00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:15.340
That's good.
628
00:34:15.340 --> 00:34:16.340
That's good tactical advice.
629
00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:23.020
David, what's the process for people learning more interested in the platform or just
630
00:34:23.020 --> 00:34:24.020
in general?
631
00:34:24.020 --> 00:34:30.420
Yeah, apart from visiting us at GlassboxMedia.com or on social media, LinkedIn or Instagram,
632
00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:35.700
you can just send us an email directly, whether it's me at David at Glassbox Media or Matthew
633
00:34:35.700 --> 00:34:37.420
at Glassbox Media.
634
00:34:37.420 --> 00:34:39.820
He's our director at a Nashville.
635
00:34:39.820 --> 00:34:43.700
Even though we're in Soho, New York, he's at a Nashville former A&R guy, which I think
636
00:34:43.700 --> 00:34:46.460
actually is an incredible skill set fit.
637
00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:49.900
And he goes out and identifies amazing podcasters with his team.
638
00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:52.900
They're constantly like listening, doing their homework.
639
00:34:52.900 --> 00:34:55.580
That obviously a lot of people reach out to us, too.
640
00:34:55.580 --> 00:34:58.820
And what we find is that even if we feel like it may not make sense for us to enter into
641
00:34:58.820 --> 00:35:03.540
a relationship and one where we financially guarantee things to you, we could still potentially
642
00:35:03.540 --> 00:35:06.980
work with you as a marketer, figuring out swaps and different ways to like promote
643
00:35:06.980 --> 00:35:10.180
you to show and more importantly, keep the lines open.
644
00:35:10.180 --> 00:35:15.020
And if a show does cross into that territory where it goes from a very kind of intriguing
645
00:35:15.020 --> 00:35:21.580
like passion project, too, holy shit overnight, I have a real business here, then we're happy
646
00:35:21.580 --> 00:35:25.140
to step in and really help and accelerate that.
647
00:35:25.140 --> 00:35:26.140
That's awesome, man.
648
00:35:26.140 --> 00:35:29.060
I really like your demeanor and personality.
649
00:35:29.060 --> 00:35:33.380
I think it makes it, I don't know, you deal with a lot of CEOs, founders, and have success
650
00:35:33.380 --> 00:35:34.380
like you.
651
00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:36.500
I don't know, there's just a really good energy from you.
652
00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:39.500
And I think it's going to resonate with our listeners, so I really appreciate you coming
653
00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:40.500
on, David.
654
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:44.060
I'm just happy to be here, and I'm glad they come across because part of reason I'm
655
00:35:44.060 --> 00:35:46.460
entrepreneur, I'm just a curious person, and I love learning.
656
00:35:46.460 --> 00:35:50.860
And I'm continuously learning from literally our team, but also the podcasters themselves.
657
00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:53.820
So it just makes for just an awesome experience for everybody.
658
00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:54.820
That's great.
659
00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:59.500
Hey guys, you're going to find us the radcast.com search for Glassbox Media.
660
00:35:59.500 --> 00:36:03.100
You'll find all the highlight clips from today and the full episode as well as the 10 minute
661
00:36:03.100 --> 00:36:06.580
short episode for all UAD people out there like me.
662
00:36:06.580 --> 00:36:07.580
We got all of it.
663
00:36:07.580 --> 00:36:11.300
David Secura, CEO, founder of Glassbox Media.
664
00:36:11.300 --> 00:36:15.540
You know where I'm at Ryan Alford on all the social media platforms, just Google me.
665
00:36:15.540 --> 00:36:21.740
I'll come up and you'll learn about marketing, podcasting, and who knows what else we'll
666
00:36:21.740 --> 00:36:22.740
see next time.
667
00:36:22.740 --> 00:36:24.220
All right, cast.
668
00:36:24.220 --> 00:36:30.580
To listen or watch full episodes, visit us on the web at the radcast.com or follow us
669
00:36:30.580 --> 00:36:38.420
on social media at our Instagram account v dot rad dot cast or at Ryan Alford.
670
00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:39.020
Stay radical.