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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Reform and eat in private podcasts and bracing the beauty and brokenness in your journey with God.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, it is episode.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm thankful to be joined by Todd Wormers and Phil Herndon from Tin Man Ministries.
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[SPEAKER_04]: This Tin Man, if you don't know about it, and go to their website, Google Tin Man Ministries, you'll find it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: They do a phenomenal job of walking with leaders to really find their heart, the Tin Man didn't know we had a heart in the story of the Wizard of Oz, but discovered later that he did and actually was able to show up and be himself in relationship.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so Tin Man really, you guys are some of the best in the world that helping people do that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: and I've personally started working with you guys about five years ago and have built on that for many, many years based on the skills of just super thankful for who you are in the kingdom, for the ways you're serving so many people and try to have this conversation.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So today we're going to talk about the experience of gladness.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So some people will look at the eight core emotions and they'll say, hey, that's the only positive one.
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[SPEAKER_04]: All the other ones are really negative.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Why is there only one that's positive?
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[SPEAKER_04]: But that's gladness in their mind, which that's a misconception we could talk about.
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[SPEAKER_04]: But let's start with with you Todd, what am I experiencing when I experience glad?
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[SPEAKER_02]: yeah gladness is an outcome of the other seven feeling so in order to have gladness you must have walked through one are all of the other seven with that without you know that the shame the hurt the sadness the guilt you'll never be able to get to the gladness so it's in essence it's the tip of the iceberg and everything else underneath the waters of the one thing that's pushing this up so
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think so many people, if we're feeling I, combined the number of times we've gotten that quote, like, we would be millionaires who could support your ministry, our ministry, and everyone else has ministry based on that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it really is that place of so many people don't want to do the other seven.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They just want to get to gladness.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this podcast I think will really be helpful to save in.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What are you willing to do and what are you not willing to do in order to?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I would say live fully to have that joy that God offers to us, but you have to do other seven deeply and fully.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's helpful.
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[SPEAKER_04]: How do you define gladness for someone who's trying to put language or to that experience?
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[SPEAKER_01]: really definition of gladness, I think in addition to what Todd says, we need to know what it isn't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness is not a reward.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness really isn't even a goal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness Todd used the word outcome right on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness is an outcome.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness is a result of living fully in relationship.
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[SPEAKER_01]: part of my background is right across about 40 miles from here, I've been a pastor for several years and we had a fairly significant number of senior adults in our church and so I did, I did, and I'll say that we're privileged, I had the privilege doing a lot of funerals.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of visitations around those funerals and I would sit and here's what would happen.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The person who was left behind, so to speak, who Spouse had died, we would go and we would sit in the living room usually and spend about an hour and a half or so just telling stories in one minute we were crying and one minute we were laughing, the next minute we were just in between, but what happened in those, that hour and a half or two hours was running up and down this chart that we have hurt and sadness and
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's an opportunity for some people to make confession of things that had happened in that home that no one else knew about and nor will they ever, because I'm not going to tell it either, but they're, you know, they were, and so all these really just pathos, not just the pathos of the grief they were experiencing, but all the life they had lived together and talking about that out loud.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I can't think of a single time I've ever left a house of someone I've had that they did not say I'm so glad you were here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now part of it is a southern nicety of I'm glad you came pastor.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, there was a depth of that gladness that could have only come from that hour and a half or two hours of water.
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[SPEAKER_01]: walking around in all of these feelings, and then there was a gladness that their heart had been attended to by God for sure, by me, and by them, mostly, telling the story.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so having all those feelings out loud, about sometimes 65 years of life with someone they had lived with, and all the stories that come from that, well, those stories have feelings all over them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Pladness is really this experience that comes out of living life fully, relationally and emotionally.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: That's so helpful.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Is there a wrong way to be glad?
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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we say it's the only positive one that we've been talking about the list of impairments and a broken, unrelational way of processing and experience and emotion.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Most maybe if thought hey that glad is always good.
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[SPEAKER_04]: There's no bad in glad trying to be a cheesy rhyme But what is the impermanent gladness is there is there a broken way to do or derelationize way to do gladness
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the way we would call it sensuality without heart, trying to stimulate the by stimulate the heart, but actually not do it from the heart.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So there's really four waves of doing that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So the first wave to do stimulation of the heart, sensuality without heart skin.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where I get it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not like, I'm never going to jump out of a plane with a parachute or rock climb without a rope, but that's the way we stimulate it to a general junkies as what we used to call them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that would be the first way, like, you were just like, man, pushing push and push and pushing to achieve gladness, but it's really just, you're, like, a door for the least or something extreme.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's like secrets, affairs, you know, excessive working out, anything that
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[SPEAKER_02]: through the general sex.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So again, we'll get this out and let fill share more about this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, you're looking for intensity versus intimacy when you're doing it with sex.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, that was my drug choice.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, man, I had to achieve that intimacy, but I was tricking the brain with intensity through lust, really.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And all these are lust.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, when we think about lust in the Bible, like lust just isn't sex, but for me, that's the primary place.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then there was intellect or the brain, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is the again, the Pharisees.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of theologians like, man, if I can just stimulate my brain, be smarter and read more or just stimulate my brain, that's a way to do it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you're, again, you're bypassing the heart going right to the head and then the last one is stomach.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So like food, those kind of things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll let Phil share, you can also withhold from those things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll let Phil share about the withholding of those pieces.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So all of those, though, are you're seeking pleasure apart from relationship?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Is that kind of what's on the summary?
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're really seeking stimulation that ends up being pleasurable, but it's being pleasurable in those parts of the nervous system and in the brain that speaks to power.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I went through a season, I had morbid obesity due to just the gorging of food for comfort as Todd mentioned, using my belly to make myself okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I found this magical formula to get more attention and more power by not eating at all.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to move this season of Narex, I lost over a hundred pounds and ten months.
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[SPEAKER_01]: due to restrictive eating and so belly doesn't mean just comfort food like this part of the country you know in the south with all the carbs and stuff what we call comfort food or ice cream but it also has to do with using my belly to get power that simulates
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[SPEAKER_01]: it through stimulation simulates gladness pleasure and so it's really important distinction to make around that and we can use our intellects to figure life out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It does include reading and those kind of thing, but it can also be, I'm just going to figure this out and I'm going to restrict my eating or overeat, do that in a sexual expression, a different kind, and then all the skin stimulation, gambling addictions, a big skin stimulation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: for example the rush and so we will often akin to what we're talking about is people will often say you know one way to get to gladness is to find my passion and if I'm looking for my passion I guarantee you we're gonna find our passion in one, two, three or four of those ways of stimulation this passion is what begins living movement clarity toward life
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[SPEAKER_01]: and seeking, finding my passion outside of me is going to end up in one of those four places, and that often is seen as, I'm really glad when I'm hiking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if hiking is used in order to stimulate my skin, the cardio, the sweat, whatever else, if that's being used to get me away from something,
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's the demulation of hiking brings me closer to my recognition of the grandeur of God, my neediness, my dependence on Him.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole another thing, but that's coming from internal, not looking for passion out here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll think it's mistaken for gladness.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah, what happens if I live in that situation without heart for decades?
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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and I never get off that track.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I never process cloudness in a relational way.
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[SPEAKER_04]: How does that end?
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[SPEAKER_01]: We chip coin to phrase called empty tragedy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We've just sometimes called it emptiness.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about that a lot of times we treated a lot of guys and we see a lot of people at 10 Man with this is just kind of like we used to say, you know, I got to the top of the ladder And it was leaving against the wrong building is like, no, man, it's worse.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It is not against a building at all It's just more ladder like nothing up there So empty tragedy is getting to the to the end of life and saying I really don't have anything to show
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[SPEAKER_01]: other than the stimulation of these one, two, three, or four places just empty and it's tragic and now it's over, and I got nothing to show.
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[SPEAKER_01]: A great example, you know, if it's true or not, but his story ends, some historians have reported that Alexander the Great at 33 years old was found in his tent weeping because there were no more empires to conquer, like this kind of peaked and there's nothing else here because everything was outside of him.
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[SPEAKER_04]: as always is to accomplishment and he had accomplished it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's an internship.
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[SPEAKER_04]: No relationship.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's good.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what's the, what's the positive side?
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm experiencing gladness, but I'm willing to do it in relationship.
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[SPEAKER_04]: What's that path look like?
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[SPEAKER_02]: What do I do with it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think this is what we do with it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We bring it to other people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is where the need comes into.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So the need and the gift is about celebration.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Our discussion right before the podcast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So helpful.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thinking about.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There is such a need for celebration yet such a void of that in our society and so being celebrated is the place of most fulfillment and surrounding yourself with people that are willing to celebrate you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's that when I look back in my journey, my story, I had no celebration.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I can't
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[SPEAKER_02]: I have moments of smaller stories of, you know, shame, but my, even my story is not riddle with a shame story.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's big, big moments of shame, but I don't remember one ad a boy.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember one great shot.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember, but I also don't, I don't have the, remember, you should have done better either.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't void of any kind of celebration at all in my life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: uh... that's what drove me to like man i've got to find this place of celebration uh... that that is what sent you out with all without heart will do it will stimulate it did stimulate that place of being celebrated by so on a screen uh... so yeah
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as you say that I'm thinking of one of the, um, one of the descriptors of a, of a mentor is sometimes somebody who's just celebrating the person that they're, um, they're pouring into like they're, they're seeing the winds along the way and they're making a big deal about it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh, you just did it almost like a, a parent with the, the kid that walks for the first time and it's just like, you're
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[SPEAKER_03]: You realize what you just did.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And sometimes the mentors doing that, right?
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[SPEAKER_04]: This like the only person that stopped and actually marked developmental things in my journey or big wins that happened and was actually just celebrating.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody else was like, okay, cool, next.
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[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean, don't formulate, next?
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[SPEAKER_04]: What are you going to do now?
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[SPEAKER_04]: How are you going to build on that?
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[SPEAKER_04]: Or whatever the environment was.
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[SPEAKER_04]: But also on the flip side, we talked about this a little bit before we got started.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes you find out who your friends are by who rejoices with you when you're rejoicing.
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[SPEAKER_04]: right when the good thing happens there's just as excited or more than you are you're like this person is really winning when i'm winning they're winning when i'm winning they're they're happy and then you have a couple of folks maybe when something good happens to you they're actually not happy for you
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[SPEAKER_04]: And even sometimes in our families of origin or something, you might say something good happened.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they weren't happy for me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I found out that maybe we were competing with one another when I thought we were just doing fellowship with one another, and so it could be an exposing emotion when we didn't really can, and to kind of further this understanding for listeners' viewers around how gladness is an outcome, just pay attention to
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[SPEAKER_01]: people who can celebrate well with other people, or people who have a rich emotional life, because much of what happens when this competitive thing comes in is scarcity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like these resources of feeling great are living fully with someone, it's scarce.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so if I'm not taking care of myself,
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[SPEAKER_01]: then no one's going to do it for me or with me and so my friend Duke is celebrating something happened inside of me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I jump over to these impairments and go, I can't join that I'm alone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now Duke's going to be ahead of me, so I'm lonely with him, so I'm apathetic.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We'd self-pity, I start pounding, I'm nothing ever good at my main Duke ship came in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was at the airport, it was awful, you know, and all these down here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm not feeling my own feelings consistently,
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[SPEAKER_01]: it's going to feel like I'm going to have anxiety around something being taken from me because resources are scarce.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The most resources are scarce, so if Duke celebrates, and this is an amazing thing, happen to him, then that necessarily takes away from me if I'm living in this survival place of these impairments.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So there's so many pieces of pie, Duke has got one, so now there's less of a chance that there's going to be enough for me to go around like the right.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but when we think about the gospel and we think about God who has all the resources, who is infinitely generous.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's just a totally different worldview.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Like his love is not limited.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We see visions through that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's we're supposed to know it and yet really know it, but the height that with and breath the love of God is actually unknowable We can't get to the bottom of the resource that is the love of God, and so that's the good news in the gospel We don't and and who our God is is that we don't actually have to play tug of war to see who's gonna get the loves It's like there's more than enough to go around and so we can celebrate all the time
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[SPEAKER_04]: That's not taking away from us to actually see something good and call it good and to celebrate with somebody who's experiencing that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, that's really great.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I was talking about the gift because you guys sometimes will talk about joy with sadness and a lot of people will be like, what's that about?
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[SPEAKER_04]: I thought this was the good one.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Now we're here in sadness, what is joy with sadness, Todd, that we need to understand as we're experiencing gladness.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think goes back to, you know, if you're experiencing all the other ones, like there's a joy in that, but there's going to be a, you know, you couple that with a loss.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember sitting in treatment and being like, when I was talking about, I was still saying joy and sadness.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just want to joy, give me joy, man, give me the joy piece.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like, oh, when I, when I had, I wouldn't, hadn't been able to have kids at the time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I remember having, I didn't have her, obviously, Jenny had her, tennis in our oldest, and I remember holding her for the first time, and, you know, just overwhelmed with joy, but I felt these tears just coming down my face, and I'm like, man, but I remember in that moment, like, man, God's giving me this great gift of a daughter.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And now she's going to live in the scary world.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like all those emotions came over at me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Once I remember thinking to myself, as I held her, I was like, goes back to my dad's.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I wish my dad was here to celebrate with me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm able to hold her with joy and sadness and loneliness that my own dad wasn't able to be a part of the journey with me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, just, again, again, I think for me personally, I want to do the joy piece.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't want to do the sadness piece, and when I get there that, I'm back in the impairment, so it's going back to like, okay, am I willing to feel the other seven?
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[SPEAKER_02]: my will in the sit in the other seven in order to experience something greater than that, which I'm even sitting in, which is the joy piece.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's how I would define it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so something about like I have this good thing, but it's still in an environment that is broken and it maybe has threats that could be harmed or it could be taken, it could be lost.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We said that you said earlier on the sadness episode that every person we love, that relationship will be lost until resurrection.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's a good news that we haven't anywhere.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's in resurrection.
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[SPEAKER_04]: But until then, every baby that we hold will become an adult who will at some point die before or after us.
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[SPEAKER_04]: that it's so good and it can be lost.
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[SPEAKER_04]: There's a, there's a, there's a world we live in that is not perfect.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that goes back, we've mentioned it several of these episodes to do.
18:07.319 --> 18:24.874
[SPEAKER_01]: It goes back to, I think Todd brought it up originally early on, but if he's asked these three, part of eternity in our hearts is painful to say, you know what, maintenance in his borne or these wonderful things happen, and I feel this joy is like, here's what I know internally.
18:24.854 --> 18:27.919
[SPEAKER_01]: It hasn't always been this way, it's not going to stay this way.
18:28.960 --> 18:37.152
[SPEAKER_01]: This broken world we talk about, we're guaranteed to when we experience joy, because all these feelings become operative.
18:37.833 --> 18:38.975
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we talked earlier.
18:39.035 --> 18:42.981
[SPEAKER_01]: This ever-present open app of sadness is like,
18:42.961 --> 19:00.936
[SPEAKER_01]: This is wonderful and fantastic, and we know that ultimately I'm not made since Genesis 3, I'm not made in such a way that all I get to do is feel this because everything in my humanness is lost.
19:00.916 --> 19:02.198
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's so good.
19:02.218 --> 19:08.085
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm on vacation in Colorado and the temperature's perfect in the summer, but I know I'm going to get back in the car and drive back to Texas.
19:08.105 --> 19:10.769
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be 105 in humid and that's coming.
19:10.889 --> 19:11.930
[SPEAKER_04]: That's 11 p.m.
19:14.354 --> 19:15.695
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not going to last forever.
19:16.196 --> 19:20.802
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what does it look like to be a part of a celebrated community or a celebrating family?
19:20.862 --> 19:25.228
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've got a we've got a family that knows how to do cloudness well together in relationship.
19:25.248 --> 19:27.531
[SPEAKER_04]: What does it feel like to be a part of communities like that?
19:28.658 --> 19:47.730
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it starts fundamentally with everyone's willingness to allow all of it to be part of the celebration like some people say not, I know of a situation, there was a really great, I was actually someone graduating medical school and there was a, there was a
19:48.318 --> 20:02.063
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you call it a spoken rule, the grandfather of the graduate from medical school had passed away recently and there was a rule like we're just going to celebrate today and no one's going to talk about him not being your he also was a physician.
20:02.624 --> 20:11.440
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to tell my him being here and like that's really not a real celebration because we've got this rule all of a sudden that I can't celebrate fully.
20:11.420 --> 20:13.865
[SPEAKER_01]: which includes a sadness like man how was she was here.
20:13.925 --> 20:27.572
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a doctor himself and I'm the third doctor in the long line of these physicians in this town and that's an example that like true celebration is a community whether it's a family a community group a church the church universal.
20:27.552 --> 20:30.537
[SPEAKER_01]: to say, we're going to allow for all of this.
20:30.578 --> 20:37.310
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have something in the midst of our celebration that you feel aburden about it, you're sad about it.
20:37.350 --> 20:41.658
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a herd of whatever, like all that's welcome in what we're doing here.
20:41.938 --> 20:45.004
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to eat ice cream and we may cry too.
20:44.984 --> 21:11.098
[SPEAKER_04]: That's beautiful because honestly, as you describe the rules around you can't be sad today because today's a happy day that restrictive controlling environment is a kind of funny positivism like today's are going to be one of those positive days so nobody say anything negative, but what I'm hearing you guys describe is that because gladness sits on the other emotions is the most honest way to express it is this really beautiful things happening and wouldn't grandpa who died who we miss.
21:11.199 --> 21:14.603
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's filled that for a second.
21:14.583 --> 21:37.367
[SPEAKER_04]: first granddaughter and that doesn't diminish the day actually it's like no like we miss him that we're still so glad and then she's reflecting on how much he loved her and celebrate her and so she's not losing something by native noticing and naming that that's just the honest truth of of what's real and what's true and so I love that that's helpful and even instructive for me to say, hey
21:37.347 --> 21:42.892
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't need to come in and that's the only thing of Clark W. Griswald and Christmas vacation.
21:42.912 --> 21:47.337
[SPEAKER_04]: He's trying to craft the perfect Christmas family Christmas and stuff goes wrong.
21:47.697 --> 21:58.287
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like it's the real world and so it's okay that stuff goes wrong while we come together for the celebration and that's just the honest truth about life together.
21:58.367 --> 22:00.129
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not managed and control it.
22:00.169 --> 22:01.210
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's live it.
22:01.230 --> 22:03.152
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's live into the fullness of it.
22:03.132 --> 22:04.454
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what else would you add to that?
22:04.494 --> 22:05.556
[SPEAKER_04]: What does it feel like?
22:05.976 --> 22:12.426
[SPEAKER_04]: Or, or, or talk to other any pathways things that we can do to contribute to a community that knows how to celebrate well?
22:12.707 --> 22:15.531
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's a little sort of what best, right?
22:15.551 --> 22:22.862
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I've got to pay attention to me what's going on in me when I'm noticing what's going on in them for their good.
22:22.842 --> 22:39.349
[SPEAKER_02]: I can remember one of my best friends, closest friends, we'd been texting throughout the 24 hours before we texted and he played professional baseball and I was supposed to be, he was like, man, I want you to come to my first game where you got caught up early.
22:40.139 --> 22:45.709
[SPEAKER_02]: and get caught up early and I'm on a flight between Nashville and Fort Myers.
22:46.490 --> 22:51.900
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm not in the loop to watch his first at bat.
22:51.980 --> 22:53.944
[SPEAKER_02]: So all my friends are gathered in Fort Myers.
22:53.964 --> 22:56.869
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all cheering on our buddy and I'm sitting on a flight.
22:57.630 --> 23:03.160
[SPEAKER_02]: I land in Atlanta, my phone, and my phone, as soon as I opened it,
23:23.930 --> 23:31.865
[SPEAKER_02]: The first thing you ever saw and I had that moment like all of my friends are celebrating and I wanted to go to the selfie that was sitting on a plane Huge phone.
23:31.886 --> 23:37.597
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was yes I was sitting on a plane like I'm not gonna celebrate I'm going to refuse to celebrate.
23:37.617 --> 23:41.905
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna refuse to sit on a tax like and I had the bag
23:41.885 --> 23:43.027
[SPEAKER_02]: and what's going on in me?
23:43.047 --> 23:46.733
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess it was more about me than it was about him.
23:47.294 --> 23:51.402
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and it goes back to like, I've never been celebrate like that before.
23:51.542 --> 23:56.851
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it was ever like blown my phone up or blown everyone's phone up about what Todd's doing.
23:56.871 --> 24:02.962
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, I think it's just really paying attention to what's going on in you when you watch other people be celebrated.
24:03.002 --> 24:04.184
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's so good.
24:04.284 --> 24:06.508
[SPEAKER_04]: You've talked about the scarcity
24:06.488 --> 24:23.367
[SPEAKER_04]: right yeah so if if i'm experiencing the love of god if i'm experiencing his singing over me rejoicing over me with singing his delight in me i can be delighted for others without feeling like it's diminishing me in a process and that kind of a community that kind of a family
24:23.347 --> 24:25.209
[SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, it's more honest.
24:25.870 --> 24:26.851
[SPEAKER_04]: There's more truth there.
24:27.652 --> 24:28.553
[SPEAKER_04]: It's less competitive.
24:28.954 --> 24:29.715
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels safer.
24:29.775 --> 24:36.944
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels like you can actually experience the fullness of the good and the bad in more truth and in more community.
24:37.584 --> 24:44.092
[SPEAKER_04]: And honestly, I had some of the ways in which my friendships have been the deepest is when I can tell somebody really is happy for me.
24:44.493 --> 24:48.758
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody right over there, Nathan Wagner, has been one of those friends to me that I can see on his face.
24:49.078 --> 24:51.261
[SPEAKER_04]: He's excited for me when something good happens.
24:51.241 --> 24:54.767
[SPEAKER_04]: And you just have more together, and I've had other people that, and I don't feel that.
24:55.187 --> 24:56.610
[SPEAKER_04]: And you have less together.
24:56.650 --> 24:59.755
[SPEAKER_04]: And you realize, oh, wow, okay, this isn't what I thought it was.
24:59.815 --> 25:07.808
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you just want to encourage you as a listener to really lean into your gladness, to take it into relationship, to rejoice with those who rejoice.
25:08.048 --> 25:09.411
[SPEAKER_04]: And invite others to rejoice with you.
25:10.192 --> 25:12.996
[SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, don't diminish the good things that are happening.
25:14.058 --> 25:18.345
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, don't celebrate them in a central way as an isolated heat.
25:18.325 --> 25:28.015
[SPEAKER_01]: and just one more thing that you say, that Romans 12, like, what makes the rejoicing with those who rejoice so much sweeter is weeping when they weep?
25:28.876 --> 25:30.958
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what a backdrop for rejoicing.
25:31.138 --> 25:31.819
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I do both.
25:32.260 --> 25:33.140
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got to do both.
25:33.301 --> 25:35.323
[SPEAKER_04]: That's honest, anthropology.
25:35.343 --> 25:37.365
[SPEAKER_04]: That's being a real human being in the real world.
25:37.425 --> 25:39.807
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's really what this whole series has been about.
25:39.827 --> 25:40.628
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to thank you guys.
25:40.648 --> 25:42.010
[SPEAKER_04]: We wrap up the last episode.
25:42.390 --> 25:48.096
[SPEAKER_04]: So I've really fitting in to everything we've talked about
25:48.076 --> 25:51.340
[SPEAKER_04]: in the real stuff of life with what you're experiencing in your interior life.
25:51.520 --> 25:56.706
[SPEAKER_04]: Let someone else show up and as you do that together, the deep fellowship and relationship that you have.
25:57.107 --> 25:58.849
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we do that with God.
25:59.249 --> 26:00.831
[SPEAKER_04]: It looks a lot like praying the Psalms.
26:01.111 --> 26:05.316
[SPEAKER_04]: It looks a lot like Jesus in Gistemony, who knew how to show up with his father and tell the truth.
26:05.356 --> 26:09.101
[SPEAKER_04]: Even when it was pretty messy, even when he's asking to change the plan.
26:09.161 --> 26:11.604
[SPEAKER_04]: He's on the cross saying, why have you forsaken me?
26:12.425 --> 26:14.827
[SPEAKER_04]: He's still showing up and showing us as a model.
26:14.867 --> 26:17.931
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what you
26:17.911 --> 26:19.495
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not exceptional.
26:19.676 --> 26:20.398
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not rare.
26:20.458 --> 26:21.000
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not weird.
26:21.060 --> 26:21.621
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not weak.
26:21.822 --> 26:22.684
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just human.
26:23.647 --> 26:25.532
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're made this way and we're made for this.
26:25.632 --> 26:28.641
[SPEAKER_04]: And so this podcast is just an invitation to that for you.
26:28.661 --> 26:33.895
[SPEAKER_04]: I have healthy anger for everyone in the audience to experience the things we've been talking about.
26:33.875 --> 26:38.941
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot more coming around every present in this entire theme at the Eden Project.
26:39.502 --> 26:42.966
[SPEAKER_04]: I think some of you may have said, hey, I think I might need to check in with ten man.
26:43.006 --> 26:48.733
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to take a step towards really finding my heart, because I, my family of origin maybe didn't train me to do this.
26:48.853 --> 26:49.674
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how to do this.
26:49.694 --> 26:51.757
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe the church I've been a part of doesn't know how to do this.
26:52.297 --> 26:55.441
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just want to say, hey, you are a human being, you were made for this.
26:55.841 --> 26:58.785
[SPEAKER_04]: And there is a path forward for you to live in deep connection.
26:58.765 --> 27:00.147
[SPEAKER_04]: we've got self and others.
27:00.728 --> 27:13.124
[SPEAKER_04]: The in-project 10 man ministries were all about this together in collaboration and as ministries getting after this in the world and we believe it's important we believe that there's so much here for people that were excited about that.
27:13.544 --> 27:20.453
[SPEAKER_04]: The community fellowship, the good experiences they courageous, takes emotional courage, that benefits us.
27:20.922 --> 27:23.567
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Reformed Podcast.
27:24.088 --> 27:26.894
[SPEAKER_00]: If you like what you heard, hit that subscribe button.
27:27.195 --> 27:28.357
[SPEAKER_00]: Share it with your friends.
27:28.618 --> 27:29.540
[SPEAKER_00]: Leave us a rating.
27:29.800 --> 27:33.668
[SPEAKER_00]: And check out our other resources at theeatenproject.com.
27:34.570 --> 27:35.151
[SPEAKER_00]: Peace!
00:10.021 --> 00:17.949
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Reform and eat in private podcasts and bracing the beauty and brokenness in your journey with God.
00:18.872 --> 00:19.896
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it is episode.
00:21.867 --> 00:25.871
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm thankful to be joined by Todd Wormers and Phil Herndon from Tin Man Ministries.
00:26.592 --> 00:32.598
[SPEAKER_04]: This Tin Man, if you don't know about it, and go to their website, Google Tin Man Ministries, you'll find it.
00:33.299 --> 00:45.872
[SPEAKER_04]: They do a phenomenal job of walking with leaders to really find their heart, the Tin Man didn't know we had a heart in the story of the Wizard of Oz, but discovered later that he did and actually was able to show up and be himself in relationship.
00:45.912 --> 00:50.457
[SPEAKER_04]: And so Tin Man really, you guys are some of the best in the world that helping people do that.
00:50.437 --> 01:02.597
[SPEAKER_04]: and I've personally started working with you guys about five years ago and have built on that for many, many years based on the skills of just super thankful for who you are in the kingdom, for the ways you're serving so many people and try to have this conversation.
01:02.697 --> 01:07.365
[SPEAKER_04]: So today we're going to talk about the experience of gladness.
01:07.835 --> 01:12.201
[SPEAKER_04]: So some people will look at the eight core emotions and they'll say, hey, that's the only positive one.
01:12.261 --> 01:13.483
[SPEAKER_04]: All the other ones are really negative.
01:14.164 --> 01:15.646
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is there only one that's positive?
01:15.686 --> 01:20.072
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's gladness in their mind, which that's a misconception we could talk about.
01:20.994 --> 01:25.540
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's start with with you Todd, what am I experiencing when I experience glad?
01:25.705 --> 01:48.793
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah gladness is an outcome of the other seven feeling so in order to have gladness you must have walked through one are all of the other seven with that without you know that the shame the hurt the sadness the guilt you'll never be able to get to the gladness so it's in essence it's the tip of the iceberg and everything else underneath the waters of the one thing that's pushing this up so
01:48.773 --> 02:02.073
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so many people, if we're feeling I, combined the number of times we've gotten that quote, like, we would be millionaires who could support your ministry, our ministry, and everyone else has ministry based on that.
02:02.173 --> 02:06.680
[SPEAKER_02]: But it really is that place of so many people don't want to do the other seven.
02:06.740 --> 02:08.142
[SPEAKER_02]: They just want to get to gladness.
02:08.703 --> 02:10.005
[SPEAKER_02]: And so
02:09.985 --> 02:13.470
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this podcast I think will really be helpful to save in.
02:13.490 --> 02:17.496
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you willing to do and what are you not willing to do in order to?
02:17.516 --> 02:25.688
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say live fully to have that joy that God offers to us, but you have to do other seven deeply and fully.
02:25.968 --> 02:27.090
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's helpful.
02:27.130 --> 02:31.977
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you define gladness for someone who's trying to put language or to that experience?
02:31.957 --> 02:39.990
[SPEAKER_01]: really definition of gladness, I think in addition to what Todd says, we need to know what it isn't.
02:40.851 --> 02:42.554
[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness is not a reward.
02:42.594 --> 02:44.798
[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness really isn't even a goal.
02:45.439 --> 02:47.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness Todd used the word outcome right on.
02:47.582 --> 02:48.904
[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness is an outcome.
02:49.004 --> 02:53.712
[SPEAKER_01]: Gladness is a result of living fully in relationship.
02:53.692 --> 03:07.062
[SPEAKER_01]: part of my background is right across about 40 miles from here, I've been a pastor for several years and we had a fairly significant number of senior adults in our church and so I did, I did, and I'll say that we're privileged, I had the privilege doing a lot of funerals.
03:07.763 --> 03:13.135
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of visitations around those funerals and I would sit and here's what would happen.
03:13.115 --> 03:40.776
[SPEAKER_01]: The person who was left behind, so to speak, who Spouse had died, we would go and we would sit in the living room usually and spend about an hour and a half or so just telling stories in one minute we were crying and one minute we were laughing, the next minute we were just in between, but what happened in those, that hour and a half or two hours was running up and down this chart that we have hurt and sadness and
03:40.756 --> 04:01.498
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an opportunity for some people to make confession of things that had happened in that home that no one else knew about and nor will they ever, because I'm not going to tell it either, but they're, you know, they were, and so all these really just pathos, not just the pathos of the grief they were experiencing, but all the life they had lived together and talking about that out loud.
04:01.478 --> 04:08.569
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can't think of a single time I've ever left a house of someone I've had that they did not say I'm so glad you were here.
04:08.609 --> 04:12.796
[SPEAKER_01]: Now part of it is a southern nicety of I'm glad you came pastor.
04:13.237 --> 04:13.938
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that.
04:14.058 --> 04:20.989
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, there was a depth of that gladness that could have only come from that hour and a half or two hours of water.
04:20.969 --> 04:31.328
[SPEAKER_01]: walking around in all of these feelings, and then there was a gladness that their heart had been attended to by God for sure, by me, and by them, mostly, telling the story.
04:31.529 --> 04:42.990
[SPEAKER_01]: And so having all those feelings out loud, about sometimes 65 years of life with someone they had lived with, and all the stories that come from that, well, those stories have feelings all over them.
04:43.090 --> 04:44.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
04:44.172 --> 04:51.260
[SPEAKER_01]: Pladness is really this experience that comes out of living life fully, relationally and emotionally.
04:52.141 --> 04:52.281
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
04:52.301 --> 04:52.401
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
04:52.542 --> 04:53.162
[SPEAKER_04]: That's so helpful.
04:54.003 --> 04:54.504
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
04:54.524 --> 04:55.745
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there a wrong way to be glad?
04:55.765 --> 05:06.197
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we say it's the only positive one that we've been talking about the list of impairments and a broken, unrelational way of processing and experience and emotion.
05:06.177 --> 05:08.466
[SPEAKER_04]: Most maybe if thought hey that glad is always good.
05:08.486 --> 05:17.419
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no bad in glad trying to be a cheesy rhyme But what is the impermanent gladness is there is there a broken way to do or derelationize way to do gladness
05:18.007 --> 05:26.261
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the way we would call it sensuality without heart, trying to stimulate the by stimulate the heart, but actually not do it from the heart.
05:26.903 --> 05:29.627
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's really four waves of doing that.
05:29.768 --> 05:36.259
[SPEAKER_02]: So the first wave to do stimulation of the heart, sensuality without heart skin.
05:36.279 --> 05:38.563
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where I get it.
05:38.543 --> 05:47.951
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not like, I'm never going to jump out of a plane with a parachute or rock climb without a rope, but that's the way we stimulate it to a general junkies as what we used to call them.
05:47.971 --> 05:58.140
[SPEAKER_02]: So that would be the first way, like, you were just like, man, pushing push and push and pushing to achieve gladness, but it's really just, you're, like, a door for the least or something extreme.
05:58.220 --> 06:08.449
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's like secrets, affairs, you know, excessive working out, anything that
06:08.429 --> 06:10.612
[SPEAKER_02]: through the general sex.
06:10.632 --> 06:14.717
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, we'll get this out and let fill share more about this.
06:14.777 --> 06:20.043
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, you're looking for intensity versus intimacy when you're doing it with sex.
06:20.063 --> 06:22.286
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, that was my drug choice.
06:22.306 --> 06:29.375
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, man, I had to achieve that intimacy, but I was tricking the brain with intensity through lust, really.
06:29.395 --> 06:30.716
[SPEAKER_02]: And all these are lust.
06:30.737 --> 06:36.023
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, when we think about lust in the Bible, like lust just isn't sex, but for me, that's the primary place.
06:36.003 --> 06:39.087
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there was intellect or the brain, right?
06:39.427 --> 06:41.209
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is the again, the Pharisees.
06:41.850 --> 06:49.980
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of theologians like, man, if I can just stimulate my brain, be smarter and read more or just stimulate my brain, that's a way to do it.
06:50.381 --> 06:54.846
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're, again, you're bypassing the heart going right to the head and then the last one is stomach.
06:55.186 --> 06:58.170
[SPEAKER_02]: So like food, those kind of things.
06:58.691 --> 07:02.035
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll let Phil share, you can also withhold from those things.
07:02.195 --> 07:05.419
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll let Phil share about the withholding of those pieces.
07:05.399 --> 07:09.027
[SPEAKER_04]: So all of those, though, are you're seeking pleasure apart from relationship?
07:09.147 --> 07:10.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that kind of what's on the summary?
07:11.091 --> 07:11.552
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
07:11.572 --> 07:23.678
[SPEAKER_01]: You're really seeking stimulation that ends up being pleasurable, but it's being pleasurable in those parts of the nervous system and in the brain that speaks to power.
07:23.658 --> 07:35.932
[SPEAKER_01]: I went through a season, I had morbid obesity due to just the gorging of food for comfort as Todd mentioned, using my belly to make myself okay.
07:36.692 --> 07:42.118
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I found this magical formula to get more attention and more power by not eating at all.
07:42.439 --> 07:46.223
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to move this season of Narex, I lost over a hundred pounds and ten months.
07:46.203 --> 08:02.457
[SPEAKER_01]: due to restrictive eating and so belly doesn't mean just comfort food like this part of the country you know in the south with all the carbs and stuff what we call comfort food or ice cream but it also has to do with using my belly to get power that simulates
08:02.437 --> 08:13.871
[SPEAKER_01]: it through stimulation simulates gladness pleasure and so it's really important distinction to make around that and we can use our intellects to figure life out.
08:14.131 --> 08:27.988
[SPEAKER_01]: It does include reading and those kind of thing, but it can also be, I'm just going to figure this out and I'm going to restrict my eating or overeat, do that in a sexual expression, a different kind, and then all the skin stimulation, gambling addictions, a big skin stimulation.
08:27.968 --> 08:55.107
[SPEAKER_01]: for example the rush and so we will often akin to what we're talking about is people will often say you know one way to get to gladness is to find my passion and if I'm looking for my passion I guarantee you we're gonna find our passion in one, two, three or four of those ways of stimulation this passion is what begins living movement clarity toward life
08:55.087 --> 09:04.843
[SPEAKER_01]: and seeking, finding my passion outside of me is going to end up in one of those four places, and that often is seen as, I'm really glad when I'm hiking.
09:04.883 --> 09:15.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if hiking is used in order to stimulate my skin, the cardio, the sweat, whatever else, if that's being used to get me away from something,
09:15.961 --> 09:22.917
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the demulation of hiking brings me closer to my recognition of the grandeur of God, my neediness, my dependence on Him.
09:22.957 --> 09:27.147
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole another thing, but that's coming from internal, not looking for passion out here.
09:27.608 --> 09:27.708
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
09:27.728 --> 09:29.312
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll think it's mistaken for gladness.
09:29.377 --> 09:34.146
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah, what happens if I live in that situation without heart for decades?
09:34.386 --> 09:35.849
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and I never get off that track.
09:35.869 --> 09:38.534
[SPEAKER_04]: I never process cloudness in a relational way.
09:39.015 --> 09:39.596
[SPEAKER_04]: How does that end?
09:40.858 --> 09:45.006
[SPEAKER_01]: We chip coin to phrase called empty tragedy.
09:45.066 --> 09:47.470
[SPEAKER_01]: We've just sometimes called it emptiness.
09:47.450 --> 10:00.806
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about that a lot of times we treated a lot of guys and we see a lot of people at 10 Man with this is just kind of like we used to say, you know, I got to the top of the ladder And it was leaving against the wrong building is like, no, man, it's worse.
10:00.967 --> 10:12.681
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not against a building at all It's just more ladder like nothing up there So empty tragedy is getting to the to the end of life and saying I really don't have anything to show
10:12.661 --> 10:21.214
[SPEAKER_01]: other than the stimulation of these one, two, three, or four places just empty and it's tragic and now it's over, and I got nothing to show.
10:21.234 --> 10:38.820
[SPEAKER_01]: A great example, you know, if it's true or not, but his story ends, some historians have reported that Alexander the Great at 33 years old was found in his tent weeping because there were no more empires to conquer, like this kind of peaked and there's nothing else here because everything was outside of him.
10:38.885 --> 10:40.847
[SPEAKER_04]: as always is to accomplishment and he had accomplished it.
10:41.067 --> 10:41.948
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an internship.
10:42.148 --> 10:42.909
[SPEAKER_04]: No relationship.
10:42.989 --> 10:43.669
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's good.
10:44.030 --> 10:45.451
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what's the, what's the positive side?
10:45.471 --> 10:49.555
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm experiencing gladness, but I'm willing to do it in relationship.
10:49.715 --> 10:51.116
[SPEAKER_04]: What's that path look like?
10:51.136 --> 10:51.977
[SPEAKER_02]: What do I do with it?
10:52.678 --> 10:55.801
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think this is what we do with it.
10:55.821 --> 10:56.922
[SPEAKER_02]: We bring it to other people.
10:57.162 --> 10:58.803
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is where the need comes into.
10:58.884 --> 11:01.906
[SPEAKER_02]: So the need and the gift is about celebration.
11:02.227 --> 11:04.829
[SPEAKER_02]: Our discussion right before the podcast.
11:04.849 --> 11:05.430
[SPEAKER_02]: So helpful.
11:06.130 --> 11:06.951
[SPEAKER_02]: Thinking about.
11:06.931 --> 11:23.790
[SPEAKER_02]: There is such a need for celebration yet such a void of that in our society and so being celebrated is the place of most fulfillment and surrounding yourself with people that are willing to celebrate you.
11:24.351 --> 11:30.758
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's that when I look back in my journey, my story, I had no celebration.
11:30.778 --> 11:36.465
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't
11:36.445 --> 11:44.475
[SPEAKER_02]: I have moments of smaller stories of, you know, shame, but my, even my story is not riddle with a shame story.
11:44.515 --> 11:50.803
[SPEAKER_02]: There's big, big moments of shame, but I don't remember one ad a boy.
11:50.823 --> 11:52.665
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember one great shot.
11:52.705 --> 11:57.471
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember, but I also don't, I don't have the, remember, you should have done better either.
11:57.491 --> 12:01.356
[SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't void of any kind of celebration at all in my life.
12:01.336 --> 12:16.695
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... that's what drove me to like man i've got to find this place of celebration uh... that that is what sent you out with all without heart will do it will stimulate it did stimulate that place of being celebrated by so on a screen uh... so yeah
12:16.777 --> 12:32.820
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as you say that I'm thinking of one of the, um, one of the descriptors of a, of a mentor is sometimes somebody who's just celebrating the person that they're, um, they're pouring into like they're, they're seeing the winds along the way and they're making a big deal about it.
12:32.840 --> 12:38.008
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh, you just did it almost like a, a parent with the, the kid that walks for the first time and it's just like, you're
12:38.309 --> 12:39.491
[SPEAKER_03]: You realize what you just did.
12:40.312 --> 12:42.094
[SPEAKER_04]: And sometimes the mentors doing that, right?
12:42.115 --> 12:51.007
[SPEAKER_04]: This like the only person that stopped and actually marked developmental things in my journey or big wins that happened and was actually just celebrating.
12:51.027 --> 12:52.590
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody else was like, okay, cool, next.
12:52.770 --> 12:54.192
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean, don't formulate, next?
12:54.212 --> 12:55.033
[SPEAKER_04]: What are you going to do now?
12:55.053 --> 12:55.935
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you going to build on that?
12:56.035 --> 12:58.318
[SPEAKER_04]: Or whatever the environment was.
12:59.179 --> 13:02.224
[SPEAKER_04]: But also on the flip side, we talked about this a little bit before we got started.
13:02.885 --> 13:08.012
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes you find out who your friends are by who rejoices with you when you're rejoicing.
13:07.992 --> 13:23.065
[SPEAKER_04]: right when the good thing happens there's just as excited or more than you are you're like this person is really winning when i'm winning they're winning when i'm winning they're they're happy and then you have a couple of folks maybe when something good happens to you they're actually not happy for you
13:23.045 --> 13:26.911
[SPEAKER_04]: And even sometimes in our families of origin or something, you might say something good happened.
13:26.931 --> 13:28.213
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they weren't happy for me.
13:28.593 --> 13:48.023
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found out that maybe we were competing with one another when I thought we were just doing fellowship with one another, and so it could be an exposing emotion when we didn't really can, and to kind of further this understanding for listeners' viewers around how gladness is an outcome, just pay attention to
13:48.003 --> 13:57.761
[SPEAKER_01]: people who can celebrate well with other people, or people who have a rich emotional life, because much of what happens when this competitive thing comes in is scarcity.
13:58.482 --> 14:03.411
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these resources of feeling great are living fully with someone, it's scarce.
14:03.451 --> 14:06.096
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if I'm not taking care of myself,
14:06.076 --> 14:13.127
[SPEAKER_01]: then no one's going to do it for me or with me and so my friend Duke is celebrating something happened inside of me.
14:13.147 --> 14:17.754
[SPEAKER_01]: I jump over to these impairments and go, I can't join that I'm alone.
14:17.834 --> 14:21.139
[SPEAKER_01]: Now Duke's going to be ahead of me, so I'm lonely with him, so I'm apathetic.
14:21.680 --> 14:25.867
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd self-pity, I start pounding, I'm nothing ever good at my main Duke ship came in.
14:25.927 --> 14:29.973
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at the airport, it was awful, you know, and all these down here.
14:30.033 --> 14:34.480
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm not feeling my own feelings consistently,
14:34.460 --> 14:41.209
[SPEAKER_01]: it's going to feel like I'm going to have anxiety around something being taken from me because resources are scarce.
14:41.249 --> 14:51.723
[SPEAKER_01]: The most resources are scarce, so if Duke celebrates, and this is an amazing thing, happen to him, then that necessarily takes away from me if I'm living in this survival place of these impairments.
14:52.404 --> 14:59.674
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's so many pieces of pie, Duke has got one, so now there's less of a chance that there's going to be enough for me to go around like the right.
14:59.654 --> 15:07.713
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but when we think about the gospel and we think about God who has all the resources, who is infinitely generous.
15:08.094 --> 15:10.479
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's just a totally different worldview.
15:10.499 --> 15:12.504
[SPEAKER_04]: Like his love is not limited.
15:12.564 --> 15:15.030
[SPEAKER_04]: We see visions through that.
15:15.010 --> 15:38.470
[SPEAKER_04]: It's we're supposed to know it and yet really know it, but the height that with and breath the love of God is actually unknowable We can't get to the bottom of the resource that is the love of God, and so that's the good news in the gospel We don't and and who our God is is that we don't actually have to play tug of war to see who's gonna get the loves It's like there's more than enough to go around and so we can celebrate all the time
15:38.450 --> 15:44.699
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not taking away from us to actually see something good and call it good and to celebrate with somebody who's experiencing that.
15:45.279 --> 15:46.301
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, that's really great.
15:46.621 --> 15:51.929
[SPEAKER_04]: I was talking about the gift because you guys sometimes will talk about joy with sadness and a lot of people will be like, what's that about?
15:52.349 --> 15:53.411
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought this was the good one.
15:53.451 --> 15:58.838
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we're here in sadness, what is joy with sadness, Todd, that we need to understand as we're experiencing gladness.
15:59.273 --> 16:07.708
[SPEAKER_02]: I think goes back to, you know, if you're experiencing all the other ones, like there's a joy in that, but there's going to be a, you know, you couple that with a loss.
16:07.748 --> 16:12.977
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember sitting in treatment and being like, when I was talking about, I was still saying joy and sadness.
16:12.997 --> 16:16.784
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just want to joy, give me joy, man, give me the joy piece.
16:16.844 --> 16:23.155
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like, oh, when I, when I had, I wouldn't, hadn't been able to have kids at the time.
16:23.135 --> 16:42.004
[SPEAKER_02]: But I remember having, I didn't have her, obviously, Jenny had her, tennis in our oldest, and I remember holding her for the first time, and, you know, just overwhelmed with joy, but I felt these tears just coming down my face, and I'm like, man, but I remember in that moment, like, man, God's giving me this great gift of a daughter.
16:41.984 --> 16:44.449
[SPEAKER_02]: And now she's going to live in the scary world.
16:44.629 --> 16:47.715
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like all those emotions came over at me.
16:47.976 --> 16:51.763
[SPEAKER_02]: Once I remember thinking to myself, as I held her, I was like, goes back to my dad's.
16:51.803 --> 16:53.787
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish my dad was here to celebrate with me.
16:54.328 --> 17:01.883
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm able to hold her with joy and sadness and loneliness that my own dad wasn't able to be a part of the journey with me.
17:01.863 --> 17:07.416
[SPEAKER_02]: So, just, again, again, I think for me personally, I want to do the joy piece.
17:07.957 --> 17:16.817
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't want to do the sadness piece, and when I get there that, I'm back in the impairment, so it's going back to like, okay, am I willing to feel the other seven?
17:17.725 --> 17:25.421
[SPEAKER_02]: my will in the sit in the other seven in order to experience something greater than that, which I'm even sitting in, which is the joy piece.
17:25.541 --> 17:26.864
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how I would define it.
17:27.465 --> 17:37.506
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so something about like I have this good thing, but it's still in an environment that is broken and it maybe has threats that could be harmed or it could be taken, it could be lost.
17:37.486 --> 17:44.683
[SPEAKER_04]: We said that you said earlier on the sadness episode that every person we love, that relationship will be lost until resurrection.
17:44.883 --> 17:45.204
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
17:45.465 --> 17:46.808
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a good news that we haven't anywhere.
17:46.828 --> 17:47.570
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in resurrection.
17:47.670 --> 17:55.849
[SPEAKER_04]: But until then, every baby that we hold will become an adult who will at some point die before or after us.
17:55.829 --> 17:59.292
[SPEAKER_04]: that it's so good and it can be lost.
17:59.372 --> 18:02.675
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a, there's a, there's a world we live in that is not perfect.
18:02.875 --> 18:07.259
[SPEAKER_01]: And that goes back, we've mentioned it several of these episodes to do.
18:07.319 --> 18:24.874
[SPEAKER_01]: It goes back to, I think Todd brought it up originally early on, but if he's asked these three, part of eternity in our hearts is painful to say, you know what, maintenance in his borne or these wonderful things happen, and I feel this joy is like, here's what I know internally.
18:24.854 --> 18:27.919
[SPEAKER_01]: It hasn't always been this way, it's not going to stay this way.
18:28.960 --> 18:37.152
[SPEAKER_01]: This broken world we talk about, we're guaranteed to when we experience joy, because all these feelings become operative.
18:37.833 --> 18:38.975
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we talked earlier.
18:39.035 --> 18:42.981
[SPEAKER_01]: This ever-present open app of sadness is like,
18:42.961 --> 19:00.936
[SPEAKER_01]: This is wonderful and fantastic, and we know that ultimately I'm not made since Genesis 3, I'm not made in such a way that all I get to do is feel this because everything in my humanness is lost.
19:00.916 --> 19:02.198
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's so good.
19:02.218 --> 19:08.085
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm on vacation in Colorado and the temperature's perfect in the summer, but I know I'm going to get back in the car and drive back to Texas.
19:08.105 --> 19:10.769
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be 105 in humid and that's coming.
19:10.889 --> 19:11.930
[SPEAKER_04]: That's 11 p.m.
19:14.354 --> 19:15.695
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not going to last forever.
19:16.196 --> 19:20.802
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what does it look like to be a part of a celebrated community or a celebrating family?
19:20.862 --> 19:25.228
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've got a we've got a family that knows how to do cloudness well together in relationship.
19:25.248 --> 19:27.531
[SPEAKER_04]: What does it feel like to be a part of communities like that?
19:28.658 --> 19:47.730
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it starts fundamentally with everyone's willingness to allow all of it to be part of the celebration like some people say not, I know of a situation, there was a really great, I was actually someone graduating medical school and there was a, there was a
19:48.318 --> 20:02.063
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you call it a spoken rule, the grandfather of the graduate from medical school had passed away recently and there was a rule like we're just going to celebrate today and no one's going to talk about him not being your he also was a physician.
20:02.624 --> 20:11.440
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to tell my him being here and like that's really not a real celebration because we've got this rule all of a sudden that I can't celebrate fully.
20:11.420 --> 20:13.865
[SPEAKER_01]: which includes a sadness like man how was she was here.
20:13.925 --> 20:27.572
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a doctor himself and I'm the third doctor in the long line of these physicians in this town and that's an example that like true celebration is a community whether it's a family a community group a church the church universal.
20:27.552 --> 20:30.537
[SPEAKER_01]: to say, we're going to allow for all of this.
20:30.578 --> 20:37.310
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have something in the midst of our celebration that you feel aburden about it, you're sad about it.
20:37.350 --> 20:41.658
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a herd of whatever, like all that's welcome in what we're doing here.
20:41.938 --> 20:45.004
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to eat ice cream and we may cry too.
20:44.984 --> 21:11.098
[SPEAKER_04]: That's beautiful because honestly, as you describe the rules around you can't be sad today because today's a happy day that restrictive controlling environment is a kind of funny positivism like today's are going to be one of those positive days so nobody say anything negative, but what I'm hearing you guys describe is that because gladness sits on the other emotions is the most honest way to express it is this really beautiful things happening and wouldn't grandpa who died who we miss.
21:11.199 --> 21:14.603
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's filled that for a second.
21:14.583 --> 21:37.367
[SPEAKER_04]: first granddaughter and that doesn't diminish the day actually it's like no like we miss him that we're still so glad and then she's reflecting on how much he loved her and celebrate her and so she's not losing something by native noticing and naming that that's just the honest truth of of what's real and what's true and so I love that that's helpful and even instructive for me to say, hey
21:37.347 --> 21:42.892
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't need to come in and that's the only thing of Clark W. Griswald and Christmas vacation.
21:42.912 --> 21:47.337
[SPEAKER_04]: He's trying to craft the perfect Christmas family Christmas and stuff goes wrong.
21:47.697 --> 21:58.287
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like it's the real world and so it's okay that stuff goes wrong while we come together for the celebration and that's just the honest truth about life together.
21:58.367 --> 22:00.129
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not managed and control it.
22:00.169 --> 22:01.210
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's live it.
22:01.230 --> 22:03.152
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's live into the fullness of it.
22:03.132 --> 22:04.454
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what else would you add to that?
22:04.494 --> 22:05.556
[SPEAKER_04]: What does it feel like?
22:05.976 --> 22:12.426
[SPEAKER_04]: Or, or, or talk to other any pathways things that we can do to contribute to a community that knows how to celebrate well?
22:12.707 --> 22:15.531
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's a little sort of what best, right?
22:15.551 --> 22:22.862
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I've got to pay attention to me what's going on in me when I'm noticing what's going on in them for their good.
22:22.842 --> 22:39.349
[SPEAKER_02]: I can remember one of my best friends, closest friends, we'd been texting throughout the 24 hours before we texted and he played professional baseball and I was supposed to be, he was like, man, I want you to come to my first game where you got caught up early.
22:40.139 --> 22:45.709
[SPEAKER_02]: and get caught up early and I'm on a flight between Nashville and Fort Myers.
22:46.490 --> 22:51.900
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm not in the loop to watch his first at bat.
22:51.980 --> 22:53.944
[SPEAKER_02]: So all my friends are gathered in Fort Myers.
22:53.964 --> 22:56.869
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all cheering on our buddy and I'm sitting on a flight.
22:57.630 --> 23:03.160
[SPEAKER_02]: I land in Atlanta, my phone, and my phone, as soon as I opened it,
23:23.930 --> 23:31.865
[SPEAKER_02]: The first thing you ever saw and I had that moment like all of my friends are celebrating and I wanted to go to the selfie that was sitting on a plane Huge phone.
23:31.886 --> 23:37.597
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was yes I was sitting on a plane like I'm not gonna celebrate I'm going to refuse to celebrate.
23:37.617 --> 23:41.905
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna refuse to sit on a tax like and I had the bag
23:41.885 --> 23:43.027
[SPEAKER_02]: and what's going on in me?
23:43.047 --> 23:46.733
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess it was more about me than it was about him.
23:47.294 --> 23:51.402
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and it goes back to like, I've never been celebrate like that before.
23:51.542 --> 23:56.851
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it was ever like blown my phone up or blown everyone's phone up about what Todd's doing.
23:56.871 --> 24:02.962
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, I think it's just really paying attention to what's going on in you when you watch other people be celebrated.
24:03.002 --> 24:04.184
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's so good.
24:04.284 --> 24:06.508
[SPEAKER_04]: You've talked about the scarcity
24:06.488 --> 24:23.367
[SPEAKER_04]: right yeah so if if i'm experiencing the love of god if i'm experiencing his singing over me rejoicing over me with singing his delight in me i can be delighted for others without feeling like it's diminishing me in a process and that kind of a community that kind of a family
24:23.347 --> 24:25.209
[SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, it's more honest.
24:25.870 --> 24:26.851
[SPEAKER_04]: There's more truth there.
24:27.652 --> 24:28.553
[SPEAKER_04]: It's less competitive.
24:28.954 --> 24:29.715
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels safer.
24:29.775 --> 24:36.944
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels like you can actually experience the fullness of the good and the bad in more truth and in more community.
24:37.584 --> 24:44.092
[SPEAKER_04]: And honestly, I had some of the ways in which my friendships have been the deepest is when I can tell somebody really is happy for me.
24:44.493 --> 24:48.758
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody right over there, Nathan Wagner, has been one of those friends to me that I can see on his face.
24:49.078 --> 24:51.261
[SPEAKER_04]: He's excited for me when something good happens.
24:51.241 --> 24:54.767
[SPEAKER_04]: And you just have more together, and I've had other people that, and I don't feel that.
24:55.187 --> 24:56.610
[SPEAKER_04]: And you have less together.
24:56.650 --> 24:59.755
[SPEAKER_04]: And you realize, oh, wow, okay, this isn't what I thought it was.
24:59.815 --> 25:07.808
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you just want to encourage you as a listener to really lean into your gladness, to take it into relationship, to rejoice with those who rejoice.
25:08.048 --> 25:09.411
[SPEAKER_04]: And invite others to rejoice with you.
25:10.192 --> 25:12.996
[SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, don't diminish the good things that are happening.
25:14.058 --> 25:18.345
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, don't celebrate them in a central way as an isolated heat.
25:18.325 --> 25:28.015
[SPEAKER_01]: and just one more thing that you say, that Romans 12, like, what makes the rejoicing with those who rejoice so much sweeter is weeping when they weep?
25:28.876 --> 25:30.958
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what a backdrop for rejoicing.
25:31.138 --> 25:31.819
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I do both.
25:32.260 --> 25:33.140
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got to do both.
25:33.301 --> 25:35.323
[SPEAKER_04]: That's honest, anthropology.
25:35.343 --> 25:37.365
[SPEAKER_04]: That's being a real human being in the real world.
25:37.425 --> 25:39.807
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's really what this whole series has been about.
25:39.827 --> 25:40.628
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to thank you guys.
25:40.648 --> 25:42.010
[SPEAKER_04]: We wrap up the last episode.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So I've really fitting in to everything we've talked about
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[SPEAKER_04]: in the real stuff of life with what you're experiencing in your interior life.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Let someone else show up and as you do that together, the deep fellowship and relationship that you have.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And then we do that with God.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It looks a lot like praying the Psalms.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It looks a lot like Jesus in Gistemony, who knew how to show up with his father and tell the truth.
26:05.356 --> 26:09.101
[SPEAKER_04]: Even when it was pretty messy, even when he's asking to change the plan.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He's on the cross saying, why have you forsaken me?
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[SPEAKER_04]: He's still showing up and showing us as a model.
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[SPEAKER_04]: This is what you
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's not exceptional.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's not rare.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's not weird.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's not weak.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's just human.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And we're made this way and we're made for this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so this podcast is just an invitation to that for you.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I have healthy anger for everyone in the audience to experience the things we've been talking about.
26:33.875 --> 26:38.941
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot more coming around every present in this entire theme at the Eden Project.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I think some of you may have said, hey, I think I might need to check in with ten man.
26:43.006 --> 26:48.733
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to take a step towards really finding my heart, because I, my family of origin maybe didn't train me to do this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how to do this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe the church I've been a part of doesn't know how to do this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And I just want to say, hey, you are a human being, you were made for this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And there is a path forward for you to live in deep connection.
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[SPEAKER_04]: we've got self and others.
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[SPEAKER_04]: The in-project 10 man ministries were all about this together in collaboration and as ministries getting after this in the world and we believe it's important we believe that there's so much here for people that were excited about that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: The community fellowship, the good experiences they courageous, takes emotional courage, that benefits us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Reformed Podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you like what you heard, hit that subscribe button.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Share it with your friends.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Leave us a rating.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And check out our other resources at theeatenproject.com.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Peace!
