1
00:00:01,860 --> 00:00:03,219
Announcer: This is a Getty
2
00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:11,040
Podcast.
3
00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:15,701
[Voices yelling over
sirens, photos snapping.
4
00:00:15,701 --> 00:00:18,538
Voice over radio says
“All units respond”]
5
00:00:18,538 --> 00:00:19,754
[Brass music begins]
6
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,290
George Rodriguez: You could
be somewhere like in East LA
7
00:00:22,630 --> 00:00:26,660
at a school walkout and then
you come back and in a half
8
00:00:26,660 --> 00:00:30,030
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines.
9
00:00:31,580 --> 00:00:33,560
They’re not aware of the
other situation, they’re
10
00:00:33,650 --> 00:00:40,890
totally different worlds.
11
00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:46,820
Jaime Roque: That’s photographer
George Rodriguez, the most
12
00:00:46,849 --> 00:00:50,360
influential Southern California
photographer you likely
13
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,879
haven’t heard of until now.
14
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,700
He is talking about his
experience of shooting Hollywood
15
00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:00,990
on one role of film and the
Latino experience on the next.
16
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,039
Hello, my name is Jaime
and welcome to ReCurrent.
17
00:01:11,340 --> 00:01:14,280
Roque: If you haven’t heard of
George Rodriguez, that’s okay.
18
00:01:14,710 --> 00:01:16,810
Before this story,
I hadn’t either.
19
00:01:19,510 --> 00:01:23,430
Now, I want you to imagine
this—I’m at lunch with Idurre
20
00:01:23,430 --> 00:01:26,110
Alonso, Head of Modern and
Contemporary Art at the Getty.
21
00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:28,599
We’re talking about
possible topics for
22
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,550
ReCurrent’s new season.
23
00:01:30,020 --> 00:01:33,340
In-between bites she asks,
“You know George Rodriguez?”
24
00:01:33,740 --> 00:01:36,910
My first thought was, “Yeah, I
know a couple George Rodriguez’,
25
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,280
but probably not the one you
are talking about.” So, I say:
26
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,580
“No.” Then boom—crash course:
the East LA walkouts, the
27
00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:48,890
Chicano Moratorium, farmworkers
marching with César Chávez and
28
00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:53,320
the UFW… then a hard cut to
Hollywood—red carpets, studio
29
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,339
lots, and faces you might know
and recognize: Michael Jackson,
30
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,979
N.W.A., Janis Joplin, Jimi
Hendrix, even Marilyn Monroe.
31
00:02:01,979 --> 00:02:02,020
I was hooked and
I needed to know
32
00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:05,390
more.
33
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,685
[Percussion music begins]
34
00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:13,440
Rodriguez: My name is George
Rodríguez and I was born here in
35
00:02:13,630 --> 00:02:15,670
LA, actually in South Central.
36
00:02:15,910 --> 00:02:19,209
Roque: George is born in
1937 and not long after
37
00:02:19,210 --> 00:02:22,029
that, his dad opens a shoe
repair shop on Skid Row.
38
00:02:22,510 --> 00:02:24,869
The shop is downstairs and
the family in the back.
39
00:02:25,359 --> 00:02:28,230
By the late ’40s, around
twelve, George is back
40
00:02:28,230 --> 00:02:29,394
in South Central LA.
41
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,880
While attending Fremont
High, George is in
42
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,940
need of an elective.
43
00:02:33,139 --> 00:02:35,390
A friend suggests a
photography course because
44
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,559
he heard it was easy.
45
00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:39,610
And it turns out, George
loves it and begins putting
46
00:02:39,610 --> 00:02:43,149
in hours of practice, getting
as much experience as he can.
47
00:02:43,510 --> 00:02:47,900
Then, one small favor for a
friend changes everything.
48
00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:49,950
Rodriguez: What happened
exactly was a friend of
49
00:02:49,950 --> 00:02:53,680
mine that I was in school
with, he needed a ride to
50
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,590
Hollywood so I gave him a ride.
51
00:02:55,620 --> 00:03:00,910
I had luckily parked in
front of a photo studio and
52
00:03:00,910 --> 00:03:03,400
I saw this guy setting up
to take some photographs.
53
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,519
I went in and talked to him
and that man was Sid Avery.
54
00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:16,289
Roque: Sid Avery was one of
Hollywood’s go-to photographers
55
00:03:16,289 --> 00:03:20,490
in the 1950s and ’60s—famous
for candid, off-set portraits
56
00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:22,950
and photo essays that ran
in magazines that were on
57
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,380
nearly everyone’s coffee
table across the country.
58
00:03:25,970 --> 00:03:29,260
Magazines like LIFE,
Look, Collier’s, and The
59
00:03:29,260 --> 00:03:30,410
Saturday Evening Post.
60
00:03:30,929 --> 00:03:33,310
His subjects spanned
Audrey Hepburn, James
61
00:03:33,310 --> 00:03:36,420
Dean, Humphrey Bogart,
Elizabeth Taylor, and more.
62
00:03:36,460 --> 00:03:39,260
Rodriguez: Coincidentally
he was starting a photo lab
63
00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:43,050
so, I went and applied to
work and I got a job there
64
00:03:43,850 --> 00:03:45,590
working in the Hollywood area.
65
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,050
Roque: Famous Hollywood
names start to stack up
66
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,250
as the work increases.
67
00:03:49,770 --> 00:03:53,370
Rodriguez: I guess he liked
me so he would have me assist
68
00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:54,459
him on shoots he would do.
69
00:03:54,460 --> 00:03:57,540
And he, like I say, we went
to Lucille Ball’s house
70
00:03:57,540 --> 00:04:02,329
and I was only about 18
years old and I loved it.
71
00:04:02,639 --> 00:04:05,809
But then after a while you know
you take it for granted, having
72
00:04:05,809 --> 00:04:09,980
conversations with Michael
Jackson and Jim Morrison.
73
00:04:10,010 --> 00:04:13,220
Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin,
you know, you don't think
74
00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:18,800
about it, until later do you
realize how special that is.
75
00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,329
Roque: The origin story’s
set—a kid from South
76
00:04:21,329 --> 00:04:24,860
Central, trained at Fremont,
hustling in labs and on sets.
77
00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:27,359
But things are about
to change for him.
78
00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:30,599
He doesn’t know it yet but the
frame is starting to shift.
79
00:04:30,910 --> 00:04:33,530
Rodriguez: I remember when
I worked at this law firm
80
00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:37,489
publishing company, if I knew
things were going on I would
81
00:04:37,490 --> 00:04:40,990
leave at lunchtime and go to
East LA and shoot the stuff.
82
00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:46,525
[Trumpet music begins]
83
00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:48,740
Roque: March of 1968.
84
00:04:49,359 --> 00:04:52,170
George is now working at the
photo lab at Columbia pictures,
85
00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:55,230
which publishes celebrity
pics like Frank Sinatra
86
00:04:55,230 --> 00:04:58,210
and Warren Beatty and movie
premiers like Bye Bye Birdie
87
00:04:58,230 --> 00:04:59,630
and Breakfast at Tiffany’s.
88
00:05:00,130 --> 00:05:03,180
But across town, students
from Wilson, Garfield,
89
00:05:03,370 --> 00:05:06,400
Lincoln, Roosevelt, and
Belmont High Schools walk out.
90
00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:08,160
[Fast-paced guitar music]
91
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,349
They are protesting
overcrowded schools, scarce
92
00:05:14,349 --> 00:05:17,240
resources, and bias against
Mexican American students.
93
00:05:18,020 --> 00:05:21,270
It became a defining action
of the Chicano Movement—which
94
00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:24,429
was a civil-rights wave
led by Mexican Americans to
95
00:05:24,430 --> 00:05:27,260
win better schools, labor
rights, representation, and
96
00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:28,790
control over their own story.
97
00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:31,910
Rodriguez: You could be
somewhere like in East LA
98
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:38,879
at a school walkout and it’s
immersed in 100 percent Chicano
99
00:05:38,889 --> 00:05:44,109
Mexican environment and then
you come back and in a half
100
00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:47,840
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines and
101
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,989
they’re not aware of the other
situation and they really don’t
102
00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:56,249
care and they don’t get it.
103
00:05:56,709 --> 00:05:56,839
[Trumpet music]
104
00:05:57,759 --> 00:05:59,999
Roque: Speaking to George,
something clicks for me:
105
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,150
culture is made and kept
by the people who show up.
106
00:06:04,490 --> 00:06:07,600
George did—and saved what
might’ve been forgotten.
107
00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:11,800
He was there, documenting
the movement, yes, and also
108
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,039
participating by documenting it.
109
00:06:14,650 --> 00:06:17,180
Researching this episode,
I poured through the 2018
110
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,050
monograph “Double Vision”, which
catalogued George’s career.
111
00:06:21,610 --> 00:06:24,000
I was surprised to find
picture after picture that
112
00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:26,820
I recognized—from my old
Chicano Studies textbooks.
113
00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:30,010
Photographs of a requiem
procession for Robert F.
114
00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:32,680
Kennedy the day after he
died that ran down Brooklyn
115
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:34,450
Ave. to East LA College.
116
00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,436
Robert Kennedy was a big
supporter of César Chávez and
117
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,700
the United Farm Workers, or
UFW, so his death was a big
118
00:06:41,710 --> 00:06:43,140
deal for Mexican Americans.
119
00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:46,030
I find photographs of the
Chicano Moratorium—the
120
00:06:46,030 --> 00:06:49,020
anti–Vietnam War protests
led by Mexican Americans.
121
00:06:49,309 --> 00:06:52,260
And photographs of the United
Farm Workers organization, in
122
00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:55,570
Delano, in the Central Valley:
the boycotts, hunger strikes,
123
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,380
and the UFW’s continuous
organizing alongside César
124
00:07:00,410 --> 00:07:00,686
Chávez and Dolores Huerta.
125
00:07:00,686 --> 00:07:03,020
Huerta would go on to say
George’s photos helped bring
126
00:07:03,050 --> 00:07:06,039
people to the cause, and that
he understood it because he
127
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,420
was part of the community.
128
00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:10,790
Rodriguez: Yeah, I realize now
that you know that what I lived
129
00:07:10,790 --> 00:07:13,530
through is actually history.
130
00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:15,940
Roque: He took as many shots
as he could out of fear
131
00:07:15,940 --> 00:07:17,330
that nobody else would.
132
00:07:17,850 --> 00:07:20,400
And he did so with the
same care, attention,
133
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,460
and artistry he used when
taking celebrity portraits.
134
00:07:24,070 --> 00:07:24,840
The originals?
135
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,570
Many are now at the
Getty Research Institute.
136
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,460
[Elevator moves and opens.
137
00:07:36,460 --> 00:07:36,870
Jaime greets someone]
138
00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:38,860
I’m at the Getty
Research Institute with
139
00:07:38,870 --> 00:07:40,940
curator Idurre Alonso.
140
00:07:40,940 --> 00:07:43,909
We’re going through
George Rodríguez’s photos.
141
00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:48,589
We face 30 boxes full of decades
worth of George’s contact
142
00:07:48,590 --> 00:07:50,500
sheets, negatives, and images.
143
00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:52,849
[In background] And then we can
go over all this afterwards…
144
00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:55,350
You can see the craft
in each of his photos.
145
00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:58,969
And that’s part of why
these pictures live here—not
146
00:07:58,969 --> 00:08:01,490
just for what they show,
but how they show it.
147
00:08:02,110 --> 00:08:05,860
Years on sets taught George to
read light fast, to compose in
148
00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:09,100
chaos, to wait for the breath
between action and after.
149
00:08:09,190 --> 00:08:11,650
The same eye that could
flatter a movie star found
150
00:08:11,650 --> 00:08:14,700
the glow on a hand‑painted
sign in a protest and the
151
00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:16,190
anger on a marcher’s face.
152
00:08:16,450 --> 00:08:19,620
He brought studio craft to
the sidewalk—and it shows.
153
00:08:19,980 --> 00:08:23,320
The frames are beautiful,
human, precise.
154
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:26,750
Idurre Alonso: For me, it was
like, everything as a whole.
155
00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:29,230
I think he just wanted
to document what was
156
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:30,719
happening for him.
157
00:08:30,890 --> 00:08:34,430
Or maybe thinking on the
future, but at the time
158
00:08:34,430 --> 00:08:35,490
it was just for him.
159
00:08:36,169 --> 00:08:39,169
Roque: In one photo, white
helmeted police stand over
160
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,739
a teen protestor beaten
with batons in East LA.
161
00:08:42,570 --> 00:08:45,110
Another shows a sign that
says, “Roosevelt Chicanos
162
00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:48,699
Demand Justice.” And in
another, a march led by
163
00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:50,760
Chicano activists Brown Berets.
164
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,260
Alonso: Also the depiction of
East LA and Pico Rivera is, this
165
00:08:54,260 --> 00:08:56,419
is the 60s, this is the 70s.
166
00:08:56,579 --> 00:08:59,949
And, and even also these
depictions of kids and
167
00:09:00,090 --> 00:09:01,540
the people in East LA.
168
00:09:01,540 --> 00:09:05,030
In the case of George Rodriguez,
he’s Mexican American and he’s
169
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,170
actually the first Chicano
artist to enter the collection.
170
00:09:10,719 --> 00:09:11,309
Roque: Wow.
171
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:11,579
That’s powerful.
172
00:09:13,109 --> 00:09:14,290
Alonso: Very powerful, yeah.
173
00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:17,719
Roque: Hearing
“first” lands hard.
174
00:09:18,350 --> 00:09:18,910
Really?
175
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:20,300
the first one?
176
00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:22,610
And also: finally.
177
00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:26,270
It’s powerful to stand with
Getty’s first Chicano archive.
178
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,209
In big institutions, it
can be hard to find your
179
00:09:29,210 --> 00:09:30,260
own heritage reflected.
180
00:09:30,710 --> 00:09:33,800
I work here, and even for
me it’s not always obvious
181
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,060
where my culture fits.
182
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,430
But I find resonance
in these boxes.
183
00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:42,060
I ask Idurre why
George’s archive is here.
184
00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:47,140
Alonso: You would encounter in
this archive something that is
185
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,619
not usually found in archives.
186
00:09:49,630 --> 00:09:53,210
So usually when you see
photographs of LA in this
187
00:09:53,230 --> 00:09:55,390
time period, what you
see is the west side.
188
00:09:55,550 --> 00:09:56,739
You don’t see the east.
189
00:09:56,919 --> 00:09:58,319
Two different universes.
190
00:09:58,829 --> 00:10:01,690
Roque: In the archival boxes,
it isn’t just celebrities
191
00:10:01,690 --> 00:10:04,530
and protests—there are
records of daily life.
192
00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:07,290
Kids after school,
storefronts on a Sunday,
193
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,680
neighbors on the block.
194
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,170
As George puts it, you’re
photographing the politics,
195
00:10:12,170 --> 00:10:15,859
sure, but behind the politics,
people live full lives.
196
00:10:16,170 --> 00:10:18,959
George: The people, you
know, they don’t realize
197
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,480
that their heroes are just
trying to make a living.
198
00:10:22,010 --> 00:10:25,910
That’s just like me, you know,
I was taking pictures, some of
199
00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:29,640
this stuff was very powerful,
and that’s what I… I knew that
200
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,150
I had to do it because I thought
nobody else was doing it.
201
00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:37,720
Roque: Culture—images,
stories, memory—is safeguarded
202
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,180
by people long before an
institution gets involved.
203
00:10:41,290 --> 00:10:43,570
George’s approach to
documenting and capturing
204
00:10:43,570 --> 00:10:46,520
his culture and community
is vital and alive today.
205
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,199
[car driving] I drive to
Santa Ana to meet photographer
206
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,350
and educator William Camargo
and see the legacy of
207
00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:53,630
George Rodriguez in action.
208
00:10:53,630 --> 00:10:54,285
Hey!
209
00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:55,020
William Camargo: Hey!
210
00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:55,449
How you doing?
211
00:10:57,999 --> 00:10:58,749
[chatter fades]
212
00:10:59,570 --> 00:11:00,660
Camargo: My name
is William Camargo.
213
00:11:00,730 --> 00:11:03,520
I was born in Santana,
but was raised in Anaheim.
214
00:11:03,610 --> 00:11:05,879
My first introduction to
photography was in high school.
215
00:11:06,930 --> 00:11:10,960
I was just actually trying
to get an easy A, and it just
216
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,840
turned out that I enjoyed
photography quite a bit.
217
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:15,780
Roque: [over chatter] Already,
I hear echoes of Geroge’s
218
00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:19,939
story—chancing into a career
in pursuit of an easy A. And
219
00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:22,969
there are more similarities:
celebrities by day and
220
00:11:22,969 --> 00:11:24,229
social movements by night.
221
00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:26,470
Camargo: I was doing a lot
of music photography too
222
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:30,490
and once in a while I was
stringing for a photo agency.
223
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,150
Like these red carpets
where I would always get
224
00:11:33,150 --> 00:11:35,069
these assignments that are
like the premier of this
225
00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:37,760
movie in the Beverly Hotel
and then the afternoon was
226
00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:41,219
like a protest in downtown.
227
00:11:42,129 --> 00:11:44,920
Roque: But William sees George’s
impact in another project.
228
00:11:45,060 --> 00:11:47,569
Camargo: The book I’m
finishing right now is probably
229
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:51,339
one of the big influences
from George too, right?
230
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:53,080
It’s called Origins
in Displacement.
231
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,670
Roque: It’s a portrait
of Anaheim you don’t
232
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:56,680
see on postcards.
233
00:11:57,349 --> 00:11:59,880
Camargo: A lot of history
was hidden or was not told.
234
00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:03,800
I never really learned
about it until I was reading
235
00:12:03,859 --> 00:12:07,580
all these alternative
newspapers where I first
236
00:12:07,580 --> 00:12:08,720
encountered these archives.
237
00:12:09,309 --> 00:12:13,090
I am just documenting my own
community, right, walking
238
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:14,780
around, photographing
friends, photographing
239
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:18,139
family, photographing folks
I was just meeting as well.
240
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:21,010
You know, people were hitting
me up from Instagram being like,
241
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:22,630
“Hey, come to my neighborhood.
Like, I'll show you
242
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:33,530
around.”
243
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:33,650
[Violin music]
244
00:12:33,650 --> 00:12:36,530
Roque: And the work
continues—William in Anaheim
245
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:38,130
doing work inspired by George.
246
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:40,410
And there are now
countless other Chicano
247
00:12:40,410 --> 00:12:42,670
photographers holding up
their corners of the city.
248
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:47,209
Photographers like Chito,
Banda, Frankie Orozco, Suitcase
249
00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:48,759
Joe, and Estevan Oriol.
250
00:12:49,549 --> 00:12:50,550
We’re in safe hands.
251
00:12:51,059 --> 00:12:54,339
Our culture, our community,
is being recorded by this new
252
00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:55,500
generation of photographers.
253
00:12:56,910 --> 00:12:59,380
In the next few months, George
is preparing to move out of
254
00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:02,580
his downtown studio space,
where he’s been for 25 years.
255
00:13:03,290 --> 00:13:05,069
This is one reason
why his archive is
256
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,389
moving to the GRI now.
257
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:09,540
But even as George prepares
to hang up his camera,
258
00:13:09,929 --> 00:13:11,259
his work isn’t vanishing.
259
00:13:12,049 --> 00:13:12,910
It’s multiplying.
260
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,330
And this is what makes him one
of the most influential Southern
261
00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:19,170
California photographers,
even if this is the first
262
00:13:19,170 --> 00:13:20,130
you’re hearing of his story.
263
00:13:20,130 --> 00:13:23,559
[Alonso in the background] I
set up things so that we can…
264
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:24,820
[over background chatter]
Back at Getty, Idurre and
265
00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:28,079
I return to the boxes of
George’s photographs—thinking
266
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,150
about how images move through
hands, families, and time.
267
00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:34,719
They’re being catalogued not so
that they can be sealed off, but
268
00:13:34,780 --> 00:13:36,280
so that they can be findable.
269
00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:40,520
And if we do this right,
they’re returnable—pop-ups
270
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,130
in schools and rec centers,
library showings, neighborhood
271
00:13:44,139 --> 00:13:47,579
talks, and digitized sets
people can search—ways to
272
00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:50,189
access their own history,
their photos, their culture,
273
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,579
their part of LA’s story.
274
00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:54,910
Preservation is step one.
275
00:13:55,220 --> 00:13:56,690
Circulation is step two.
276
00:13:57,090 --> 00:13:59,330
Inspiring the next
generation is three.
277
00:13:59,599 --> 00:14:02,089
Alonso: The photography
department is putting
278
00:14:02,089 --> 00:14:06,072
together a show on Chicano
photographers and George
279
00:14:06,072 --> 00:14:07,460
is gonna be part of it.
280
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:12,699
So, in my opinion, I would like
to see these photos going back
281
00:14:13,940 --> 00:14:17,870
to East LA, or South LA in many
cases, because there’s a lot of
282
00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:21,770
photographs of the kids in South
LA at different high schools.
283
00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:26,740
And how can you work with the
kids today and show them these
284
00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:30,800
photographs and what happened
and make them think about the
285
00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:34,310
history of what is happening
now or the usage of images
286
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:39,020
today because I think they’re
very powerful and even though
287
00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:43,289
they’re like 60 years old,
they’re still very relevant
288
00:14:43,289 --> 00:14:46,819
today because many of these
issues were never resolved.
289
00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:50,250
[Quick guitar music]
290
00:14:52,090 --> 00:14:52,540
Roque: Knowing that
291
00:14:56,610 --> 00:15:00,329
Getty is preserving George
Rodríguez’s archive—Getty’s
292
00:15:00,359 --> 00:15:03,610
first Chicano archive—means
images of people who
293
00:15:03,610 --> 00:15:06,150
look like my family now
live in Getty’s archives.
294
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:09,300
And George’s photographs
belong here not only because
295
00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:12,030
of what they catalogue
but because of how they’re
296
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:17,469
built—light, line, timing—and
made from inside the community.
297
00:15:18,049 --> 00:15:20,140
He didn’t parachute
in; he belonged.
298
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,349
He knew how to read the
noon sun, how to snap a
299
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:26,610
crowded scene so that it
reads clear and human, and
300
00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:29,110
how to wait for the breath
between chant and silence.
301
00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:34,060
And he knew how to see
people—leaders, workers, kids
302
00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:36,350
after school—as neighbors first.
303
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,109
That’s the human care
you feel in each frame.
304
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,860
Writing this episode,
I kept turning to the
305
00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:44,620
sun-faded photo of my dad
that I keep on my desk.
306
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:47,470
He’s on a break while
working the fields of the
307
00:15:47,470 --> 00:15:50,720
Central Valley—no credit
line, no caption, just him
308
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,900
drinking water, looking
straight into the camera.
309
00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:55,850
That picture is a
treasure in my family.
310
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,170
It reminds us of the sacrifices
made for a better life.
311
00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:03,430
But artistically, I can admit it
leaves something to be desired.
312
00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:07,610
That’s one reason I’ve been so
drawn to George’s story: because
313
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:11,480
of how he brought studio chops
to the street—and the farm.
314
00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:13,980
That craft is the
difference between a
315
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:16,930
snapshot and a photograph
that enters the record.
316
00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:19,310
But history isn’t an either/or.
317
00:16:20,010 --> 00:16:23,180
These images have different
homes and are equally necessary.
318
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:27,129
My dad’s picture is our
private record—family
319
00:16:27,130 --> 00:16:28,699
memory, inherited meaning.
320
00:16:29,109 --> 00:16:32,450
George’s pictures are a
record the public can see—in
321
00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:35,740
Los Angeles and beyond—so
other Chicanos can search,
322
00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:38,380
learn, and recognize
themselves and their heritage.
323
00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:42,229
One keeps a family; the other
helps keep a people visible.
324
00:16:42,929 --> 00:16:45,740
When I ask George about
his legacy, he admits
325
00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:46,899
it’s hard to grasp.
326
00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:50,329
He says it’s only later
that you realize you
327
00:16:50,330 --> 00:16:51,380
did something special.
328
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:55,610
Rodriguez: You know, if I can
do it because my beginnings
329
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:57,450
are very, very minimal.
330
00:16:57,460 --> 00:17:02,649
I mean, like I say, we
lived on Skid Row and I was
331
00:17:02,649 --> 00:17:03,740
raised in South Central.
332
00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:05,659
If I can do it,
anyone can do it.
333
00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:08,310
Don’t let anybody tell
you that you can’t do it.
334
00:17:08,730 --> 00:17:10,760
Because they did tell
me I couldn’t do it.
335
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:14,060
You don't want to listen to
those people because they don’t
336
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:16,000
know you—you might be special.
337
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:16,569
[Music fades out]
338
00:17:19,690 --> 00:17:21,870
Roque: Recurrent is
written and produced by
339
00:17:21,870 --> 00:17:25,310
me, Jaime, with creative
support from Zoe Goldman.
340
00:17:25,849 --> 00:17:28,440
Our executive producer
is Christopher Sprinkle.
341
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,010
To see the photos, head
to getty dot edu slash
342
00:17:32,050 --> 00:17:34,560
podcast slash recurrent
for some of my favorites.
343
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:38,829
The museum has 41 of
George Rodriguez’s images
344
00:17:38,889 --> 00:17:40,170
digitized and viewable.
345
00:17:40,590 --> 00:17:43,470
There’s a link in the show
notes, and for transcripts,
346
00:17:43,490 --> 00:17:47,550
images, and additional
resources, visit getty dot edu
347
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,840
slash podcast slash recurrent.
00:00:01,860 --> 00:00:03,219
Announcer: This is a Getty
2
00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:11,040
Podcast.
3
00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:15,701
[Voices yelling over
sirens, photos snapping.
4
00:00:15,701 --> 00:00:18,538
Voice over radio says
“All units respond”]
5
00:00:18,538 --> 00:00:19,754
[Brass music begins]
6
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,290
George Rodriguez: You could
be somewhere like in East LA
7
00:00:22,630 --> 00:00:26,660
at a school walkout and then
you come back and in a half
8
00:00:26,660 --> 00:00:30,030
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines.
9
00:00:31,580 --> 00:00:33,560
They’re not aware of the
other situation, they’re
10
00:00:33,650 --> 00:00:40,890
totally different worlds.
11
00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:46,820
Jaime Roque: That’s photographer
George Rodriguez, the most
12
00:00:46,849 --> 00:00:50,360
influential Southern California
photographer you likely
13
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,879
haven’t heard of until now.
14
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,700
He is talking about his
experience of shooting Hollywood
15
00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:00,990
on one role of film and the
Latino experience on the next.
16
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,039
Hello, my name is Jaime
and welcome to ReCurrent.
17
00:01:11,340 --> 00:01:14,280
Roque: If you haven’t heard of
George Rodriguez, that’s okay.
18
00:01:14,710 --> 00:01:16,810
Before this story,
I hadn’t either.
19
00:01:19,510 --> 00:01:23,430
Now, I want you to imagine
this—I’m at lunch with Idurre
20
00:01:23,430 --> 00:01:26,110
Alonso, Head of Modern and
Contemporary Art at the Getty.
21
00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:28,599
We’re talking about
possible topics for
22
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,550
ReCurrent’s new season.
23
00:01:30,020 --> 00:01:33,340
In-between bites she asks,
“You know George Rodriguez?”
24
00:01:33,740 --> 00:01:36,910
My first thought was, “Yeah, I
know a couple George Rodriguez’,
25
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,280
but probably not the one you
are talking about.” So, I say:
26
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,580
“No.” Then boom—crash course:
the East LA walkouts, the
27
00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:48,890
Chicano Moratorium, farmworkers
marching with César Chávez and
28
00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:53,320
the UFW… then a hard cut to
Hollywood—red carpets, studio
29
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,339
lots, and faces you might know
and recognize: Michael Jackson,
30
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,979
N.W.A., Janis Joplin, Jimi
Hendrix, even Marilyn Monroe.
31
00:02:01,979 --> 00:02:02,020
I was hooked and
I needed to know
32
00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:05,390
more.
33
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,685
[Percussion music begins]
34
00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:13,440
Rodriguez: My name is George
Rodríguez and I was born here in
35
00:02:13,630 --> 00:02:15,670
LA, actually in South Central.
36
00:02:15,910 --> 00:02:19,209
Roque: George is born in
1937 and not long after
37
00:02:19,210 --> 00:02:22,029
that, his dad opens a shoe
repair shop on Skid Row.
38
00:02:22,510 --> 00:02:24,869
The shop is downstairs and
the family in the back.
39
00:02:25,359 --> 00:02:28,230
By the late ’40s, around
twelve, George is back
40
00:02:28,230 --> 00:02:29,394
in South Central LA.
41
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,880
While attending Fremont
High, George is in
42
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,940
need of an elective.
43
00:02:33,139 --> 00:02:35,390
A friend suggests a
photography course because
44
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,559
he heard it was easy.
45
00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:39,610
And it turns out, George
loves it and begins putting
46
00:02:39,610 --> 00:02:43,149
in hours of practice, getting
as much experience as he can.
47
00:02:43,510 --> 00:02:47,900
Then, one small favor for a
friend changes everything.
48
00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:49,950
Rodriguez: What happened
exactly was a friend of
49
00:02:49,950 --> 00:02:53,680
mine that I was in school
with, he needed a ride to
50
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,590
Hollywood so I gave him a ride.
51
00:02:55,620 --> 00:03:00,910
I had luckily parked in
front of a photo studio and
52
00:03:00,910 --> 00:03:03,400
I saw this guy setting up
to take some photographs.
53
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,519
I went in and talked to him
and that man was Sid Avery.
54
00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:16,289
Roque: Sid Avery was one of
Hollywood’s go-to photographers
55
00:03:16,289 --> 00:03:20,490
in the 1950s and ’60s—famous
for candid, off-set portraits
56
00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:22,950
and photo essays that ran
in magazines that were on
57
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,380
nearly everyone’s coffee
table across the country.
58
00:03:25,970 --> 00:03:29,260
Magazines like LIFE,
Look, Collier’s, and The
59
00:03:29,260 --> 00:03:30,410
Saturday Evening Post.
60
00:03:30,929 --> 00:03:33,310
His subjects spanned
Audrey Hepburn, James
61
00:03:33,310 --> 00:03:36,420
Dean, Humphrey Bogart,
Elizabeth Taylor, and more.
62
00:03:36,460 --> 00:03:39,260
Rodriguez: Coincidentally
he was starting a photo lab
63
00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:43,050
so, I went and applied to
work and I got a job there
64
00:03:43,850 --> 00:03:45,590
working in the Hollywood area.
65
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,050
Roque: Famous Hollywood
names start to stack up
66
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,250
as the work increases.
67
00:03:49,770 --> 00:03:53,370
Rodriguez: I guess he liked
me so he would have me assist
68
00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:54,459
him on shoots he would do.
69
00:03:54,460 --> 00:03:57,540
And he, like I say, we went
to Lucille Ball’s house
70
00:03:57,540 --> 00:04:02,329
and I was only about 18
years old and I loved it.
71
00:04:02,639 --> 00:04:05,809
But then after a while you know
you take it for granted, having
72
00:04:05,809 --> 00:04:09,980
conversations with Michael
Jackson and Jim Morrison.
73
00:04:10,010 --> 00:04:13,220
Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin,
you know, you don't think
74
00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:18,800
about it, until later do you
realize how special that is.
75
00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,329
Roque: The origin story’s
set—a kid from South
76
00:04:21,329 --> 00:04:24,860
Central, trained at Fremont,
hustling in labs and on sets.
77
00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:27,359
But things are about
to change for him.
78
00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:30,599
He doesn’t know it yet but the
frame is starting to shift.
79
00:04:30,910 --> 00:04:33,530
Rodriguez: I remember when
I worked at this law firm
80
00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:37,489
publishing company, if I knew
things were going on I would
81
00:04:37,490 --> 00:04:40,990
leave at lunchtime and go to
East LA and shoot the stuff.
82
00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:46,525
[Trumpet music begins]
83
00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:48,740
Roque: March of 1968.
84
00:04:49,359 --> 00:04:52,170
George is now working at the
photo lab at Columbia pictures,
85
00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:55,230
which publishes celebrity
pics like Frank Sinatra
86
00:04:55,230 --> 00:04:58,210
and Warren Beatty and movie
premiers like Bye Bye Birdie
87
00:04:58,230 --> 00:04:59,630
and Breakfast at Tiffany’s.
88
00:05:00,130 --> 00:05:03,180
But across town, students
from Wilson, Garfield,
89
00:05:03,370 --> 00:05:06,400
Lincoln, Roosevelt, and
Belmont High Schools walk out.
90
00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:08,160
[Fast-paced guitar music]
91
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,349
They are protesting
overcrowded schools, scarce
92
00:05:14,349 --> 00:05:17,240
resources, and bias against
Mexican American students.
93
00:05:18,020 --> 00:05:21,270
It became a defining action
of the Chicano Movement—which
94
00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:24,429
was a civil-rights wave
led by Mexican Americans to
95
00:05:24,430 --> 00:05:27,260
win better schools, labor
rights, representation, and
96
00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:28,790
control over their own story.
97
00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:31,910
Rodriguez: You could be
somewhere like in East LA
98
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:38,879
at a school walkout and it’s
immersed in 100 percent Chicano
99
00:05:38,889 --> 00:05:44,109
Mexican environment and then
you come back and in a half
100
00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:47,840
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines and
101
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,989
they’re not aware of the other
situation and they really don’t
102
00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:56,249
care and they don’t get it.
103
00:05:56,709 --> 00:05:56,839
[Trumpet music]
104
00:05:57,759 --> 00:05:59,999
Roque: Speaking to George,
something clicks for me:
105
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,150
culture is made and kept
by the people who show up.
106
00:06:04,490 --> 00:06:07,600
George did—and saved what
might’ve been forgotten.
107
00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:11,800
He was there, documenting
the movement, yes, and also
108
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,039
participating by documenting it.
109
00:06:14,650 --> 00:06:17,180
Researching this episode,
I poured through the 2018
110
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,050
monograph “Double Vision”, which
catalogued George’s career.
111
00:06:21,610 --> 00:06:24,000
I was surprised to find
picture after picture that
112
00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:26,820
I recognized—from my old
Chicano Studies textbooks.
113
00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:30,010
Photographs of a requiem
procession for Robert F.
114
00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:32,680
Kennedy the day after he
died that ran down Brooklyn
115
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:34,450
Ave. to East LA College.
116
00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,436
Robert Kennedy was a big
supporter of César Chávez and
117
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,700
the United Farm Workers, or
UFW, so his death was a big
118
00:06:41,710 --> 00:06:43,140
deal for Mexican Americans.
119
00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:46,030
I find photographs of the
Chicano Moratorium—the
120
00:06:46,030 --> 00:06:49,020
anti–Vietnam War protests
led by Mexican Americans.
121
00:06:49,309 --> 00:06:52,260
And photographs of the United
Farm Workers organization, in
122
00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:55,570
Delano, in the Central Valley:
the boycotts, hunger strikes,
123
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,380
and the UFW’s continuous
organizing alongside César
124
00:07:00,410 --> 00:07:00,686
Chávez and Dolores Huerta.
125
00:07:00,686 --> 00:07:03,020
Huerta would go on to say
George’s photos helped bring
126
00:07:03,050 --> 00:07:06,039
people to the cause, and that
he understood it because he
127
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,420
was part of the community.
128
00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:10,790
Rodriguez: Yeah, I realize now
that you know that what I lived
129
00:07:10,790 --> 00:07:13,530
through is actually history.
130
00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:15,940
Roque: He took as many shots
as he could out of fear
131
00:07:15,940 --> 00:07:17,330
that nobody else would.
132
00:07:17,850 --> 00:07:20,400
And he did so with the
same care, attention,
133
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,460
and artistry he used when
taking celebrity portraits.
134
00:07:24,070 --> 00:07:24,840
The originals?
135
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,570
Many are now at the
Getty Research Institute.
136
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,460
[Elevator moves and opens.
137
00:07:36,460 --> 00:07:36,870
Jaime greets someone]
138
00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:38,860
I’m at the Getty
Research Institute with
139
00:07:38,870 --> 00:07:40,940
curator Idurre Alonso.
140
00:07:40,940 --> 00:07:43,909
We’re going through
George Rodríguez’s photos.
141
00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:48,589
We face 30 boxes full of decades
worth of George’s contact
142
00:07:48,590 --> 00:07:50,500
sheets, negatives, and images.
143
00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:52,849
[In background] And then we can
go over all this afterwards…
144
00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:55,350
You can see the craft
in each of his photos.
145
00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:58,969
And that’s part of why
these pictures live here—not
146
00:07:58,969 --> 00:08:01,490
just for what they show,
but how they show it.
147
00:08:02,110 --> 00:08:05,860
Years on sets taught George to
read light fast, to compose in
148
00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:09,100
chaos, to wait for the breath
between action and after.
149
00:08:09,190 --> 00:08:11,650
The same eye that could
flatter a movie star found
150
00:08:11,650 --> 00:08:14,700
the glow on a hand‑painted
sign in a protest and the
151
00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:16,190
anger on a marcher’s face.
152
00:08:16,450 --> 00:08:19,620
He brought studio craft to
the sidewalk—and it shows.
153
00:08:19,980 --> 00:08:23,320
The frames are beautiful,
human, precise.
154
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:26,750
Idurre Alonso: For me, it was
like, everything as a whole.
155
00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:29,230
I think he just wanted
to document what was
156
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:30,719
happening for him.
157
00:08:30,890 --> 00:08:34,430
Or maybe thinking on the
future, but at the time
158
00:08:34,430 --> 00:08:35,490
it was just for him.
159
00:08:36,169 --> 00:08:39,169
Roque: In one photo, white
helmeted police stand over
160
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,739
a teen protestor beaten
with batons in East LA.
161
00:08:42,570 --> 00:08:45,110
Another shows a sign that
says, “Roosevelt Chicanos
162
00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:48,699
Demand Justice.” And in
another, a march led by
163
00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:50,760
Chicano activists Brown Berets.
164
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,260
Alonso: Also the depiction of
East LA and Pico Rivera is, this
165
00:08:54,260 --> 00:08:56,419
is the 60s, this is the 70s.
166
00:08:56,579 --> 00:08:59,949
And, and even also these
depictions of kids and
167
00:09:00,090 --> 00:09:01,540
the people in East LA.
168
00:09:01,540 --> 00:09:05,030
In the case of George Rodriguez,
he’s Mexican American and he’s
169
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,170
actually the first Chicano
artist to enter the collection.
170
00:09:10,719 --> 00:09:11,309
Roque: Wow.
171
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:11,579
That’s powerful.
172
00:09:13,109 --> 00:09:14,290
Alonso: Very powerful, yeah.
173
00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:17,719
Roque: Hearing
“first” lands hard.
174
00:09:18,350 --> 00:09:18,910
Really?
175
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:20,300
the first one?
176
00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:22,610
And also: finally.
177
00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:26,270
It’s powerful to stand with
Getty’s first Chicano archive.
178
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,209
In big institutions, it
can be hard to find your
179
00:09:29,210 --> 00:09:30,260
own heritage reflected.
180
00:09:30,710 --> 00:09:33,800
I work here, and even for
me it’s not always obvious
181
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,060
where my culture fits.
182
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,430
But I find resonance
in these boxes.
183
00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:42,060
I ask Idurre why
George’s archive is here.
184
00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:47,140
Alonso: You would encounter in
this archive something that is
185
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,619
not usually found in archives.
186
00:09:49,630 --> 00:09:53,210
So usually when you see
photographs of LA in this
187
00:09:53,230 --> 00:09:55,390
time period, what you
see is the west side.
188
00:09:55,550 --> 00:09:56,739
You don’t see the east.
189
00:09:56,919 --> 00:09:58,319
Two different universes.
190
00:09:58,829 --> 00:10:01,690
Roque: In the archival boxes,
it isn’t just celebrities
191
00:10:01,690 --> 00:10:04,530
and protests—there are
records of daily life.
192
00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:07,290
Kids after school,
storefronts on a Sunday,
193
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,680
neighbors on the block.
194
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,170
As George puts it, you’re
photographing the politics,
195
00:10:12,170 --> 00:10:15,859
sure, but behind the politics,
people live full lives.
196
00:10:16,170 --> 00:10:18,959
George: The people, you
know, they don’t realize
197
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,480
that their heroes are just
trying to make a living.
198
00:10:22,010 --> 00:10:25,910
That’s just like me, you know,
I was taking pictures, some of
199
00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:29,640
this stuff was very powerful,
and that’s what I… I knew that
200
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,150
I had to do it because I thought
nobody else was doing it.
201
00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:37,720
Roque: Culture—images,
stories, memory—is safeguarded
202
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,180
by people long before an
institution gets involved.
203
00:10:41,290 --> 00:10:43,570
George’s approach to
documenting and capturing
204
00:10:43,570 --> 00:10:46,520
his culture and community
is vital and alive today.
205
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,199
[car driving] I drive to
Santa Ana to meet photographer
206
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,350
and educator William Camargo
and see the legacy of
207
00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:53,630
George Rodriguez in action.
208
00:10:53,630 --> 00:10:54,285
Hey!
209
00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:55,020
William Camargo: Hey!
210
00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:55,449
How you doing?
211
00:10:57,999 --> 00:10:58,749
[chatter fades]
212
00:10:59,570 --> 00:11:00,660
Camargo: My name
is William Camargo.
213
00:11:00,730 --> 00:11:03,520
I was born in Santana,
but was raised in Anaheim.
214
00:11:03,610 --> 00:11:05,879
My first introduction to
photography was in high school.
215
00:11:06,930 --> 00:11:10,960
I was just actually trying
to get an easy A, and it just
216
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,840
turned out that I enjoyed
photography quite a bit.
217
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:15,780
Roque: [over chatter] Already,
I hear echoes of Geroge’s
218
00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:19,939
story—chancing into a career
in pursuit of an easy A. And
219
00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:22,969
there are more similarities:
celebrities by day and
220
00:11:22,969 --> 00:11:24,229
social movements by night.
221
00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:26,470
Camargo: I was doing a lot
of music photography too
222
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:30,490
and once in a while I was
stringing for a photo agency.
223
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,150
Like these red carpets
where I would always get
224
00:11:33,150 --> 00:11:35,069
these assignments that are
like the premier of this
225
00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:37,760
movie in the Beverly Hotel
and then the afternoon was
226
00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:41,219
like a protest in downtown.
227
00:11:42,129 --> 00:11:44,920
Roque: But William sees George’s
impact in another project.
228
00:11:45,060 --> 00:11:47,569
Camargo: The book I’m
finishing right now is probably
229
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:51,339
one of the big influences
from George too, right?
230
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:53,080
It’s called Origins
in Displacement.
231
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,670
Roque: It’s a portrait
of Anaheim you don’t
232
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:56,680
see on postcards.
233
00:11:57,349 --> 00:11:59,880
Camargo: A lot of history
was hidden or was not told.
234
00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:03,800
I never really learned
about it until I was reading
235
00:12:03,859 --> 00:12:07,580
all these alternative
newspapers where I first
236
00:12:07,580 --> 00:12:08,720
encountered these archives.
237
00:12:09,309 --> 00:12:13,090
I am just documenting my own
community, right, walking
238
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:14,780
around, photographing
friends, photographing
239
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:18,139
family, photographing folks
I was just meeting as well.
240
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:21,010
You know, people were hitting
me up from Instagram being like,
241
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:22,630
“Hey, come to my neighborhood.
Like, I'll show you
242
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:33,530
around.”
243
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:33,650
[Violin music]
244
00:12:33,650 --> 00:12:36,530
Roque: And the work
continues—William in Anaheim
245
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:38,130
doing work inspired by George.
246
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:40,410
And there are now
countless other Chicano
247
00:12:40,410 --> 00:12:42,670
photographers holding up
their corners of the city.
248
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:47,209
Photographers like Chito,
Banda, Frankie Orozco, Suitcase
249
00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:48,759
Joe, and Estevan Oriol.
250
00:12:49,549 --> 00:12:50,550
We’re in safe hands.
251
00:12:51,059 --> 00:12:54,339
Our culture, our community,
is being recorded by this new
252
00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:55,500
generation of photographers.
253
00:12:56,910 --> 00:12:59,380
In the next few months, George
is preparing to move out of
254
00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:02,580
his downtown studio space,
where he’s been for 25 years.
255
00:13:03,290 --> 00:13:05,069
This is one reason
why his archive is
256
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,389
moving to the GRI now.
257
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:09,540
But even as George prepares
to hang up his camera,
258
00:13:09,929 --> 00:13:11,259
his work isn’t vanishing.
259
00:13:12,049 --> 00:13:12,910
It’s multiplying.
260
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,330
And this is what makes him one
of the most influential Southern
261
00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:19,170
California photographers,
even if this is the first
262
00:13:19,170 --> 00:13:20,130
you’re hearing of his story.
263
00:13:20,130 --> 00:13:23,559
[Alonso in the background] I
set up things so that we can…
264
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:24,820
[over background chatter]
Back at Getty, Idurre and
265
00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:28,079
I return to the boxes of
George’s photographs—thinking
266
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,150
about how images move through
hands, families, and time.
267
00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:34,719
They’re being catalogued not so
that they can be sealed off, but
268
00:13:34,780 --> 00:13:36,280
so that they can be findable.
269
00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:40,520
And if we do this right,
they’re returnable—pop-ups
270
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,130
in schools and rec centers,
library showings, neighborhood
271
00:13:44,139 --> 00:13:47,579
talks, and digitized sets
people can search—ways to
272
00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:50,189
access their own history,
their photos, their culture,
273
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,579
their part of LA’s story.
274
00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:54,910
Preservation is step one.
275
00:13:55,220 --> 00:13:56,690
Circulation is step two.
276
00:13:57,090 --> 00:13:59,330
Inspiring the next
generation is three.
277
00:13:59,599 --> 00:14:02,089
Alonso: The photography
department is putting
278
00:14:02,089 --> 00:14:06,072
together a show on Chicano
photographers and George
279
00:14:06,072 --> 00:14:07,460
is gonna be part of it.
280
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:12,699
So, in my opinion, I would like
to see these photos going back
281
00:14:13,940 --> 00:14:17,870
to East LA, or South LA in many
cases, because there’s a lot of
282
00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:21,770
photographs of the kids in South
LA at different high schools.
283
00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:26,740
And how can you work with the
kids today and show them these
284
00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:30,800
photographs and what happened
and make them think about the
285
00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:34,310
history of what is happening
now or the usage of images
286
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:39,020
today because I think they’re
very powerful and even though
287
00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:43,289
they’re like 60 years old,
they’re still very relevant
288
00:14:43,289 --> 00:14:46,819
today because many of these
issues were never resolved.
289
00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:50,250
[Quick guitar music]
290
00:14:52,090 --> 00:14:52,540
Roque: Knowing that
291
00:14:56,610 --> 00:15:00,329
Getty is preserving George
Rodríguez’s archive—Getty’s
292
00:15:00,359 --> 00:15:03,610
first Chicano archive—means
images of people who
293
00:15:03,610 --> 00:15:06,150
look like my family now
live in Getty’s archives.
294
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:09,300
And George’s photographs
belong here not only because
295
00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:12,030
of what they catalogue
but because of how they’re
296
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:17,469
built—light, line, timing—and
made from inside the community.
297
00:15:18,049 --> 00:15:20,140
He didn’t parachute
in; he belonged.
298
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,349
He knew how to read the
noon sun, how to snap a
299
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:26,610
crowded scene so that it
reads clear and human, and
300
00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:29,110
how to wait for the breath
between chant and silence.
301
00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:34,060
And he knew how to see
people—leaders, workers, kids
302
00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:36,350
after school—as neighbors first.
303
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,109
That’s the human care
you feel in each frame.
304
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,860
Writing this episode,
I kept turning to the
305
00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:44,620
sun-faded photo of my dad
that I keep on my desk.
306
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:47,470
He’s on a break while
working the fields of the
307
00:15:47,470 --> 00:15:50,720
Central Valley—no credit
line, no caption, just him
308
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,900
drinking water, looking
straight into the camera.
309
00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:55,850
That picture is a
treasure in my family.
310
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,170
It reminds us of the sacrifices
made for a better life.
311
00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:03,430
But artistically, I can admit it
leaves something to be desired.
312
00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:07,610
That’s one reason I’ve been so
drawn to George’s story: because
313
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:11,480
of how he brought studio chops
to the street—and the farm.
314
00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:13,980
That craft is the
difference between a
315
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:16,930
snapshot and a photograph
that enters the record.
316
00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:19,310
But history isn’t an either/or.
317
00:16:20,010 --> 00:16:23,180
These images have different
homes and are equally necessary.
318
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:27,129
My dad’s picture is our
private record—family
319
00:16:27,130 --> 00:16:28,699
memory, inherited meaning.
320
00:16:29,109 --> 00:16:32,450
George’s pictures are a
record the public can see—in
321
00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:35,740
Los Angeles and beyond—so
other Chicanos can search,
322
00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:38,380
learn, and recognize
themselves and their heritage.
323
00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:42,229
One keeps a family; the other
helps keep a people visible.
324
00:16:42,929 --> 00:16:45,740
When I ask George about
his legacy, he admits
325
00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:46,899
it’s hard to grasp.
326
00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:50,329
He says it’s only later
that you realize you
327
00:16:50,330 --> 00:16:51,380
did something special.
328
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:55,610
Rodriguez: You know, if I can
do it because my beginnings
329
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:57,450
are very, very minimal.
330
00:16:57,460 --> 00:17:02,649
I mean, like I say, we
lived on Skid Row and I was
331
00:17:02,649 --> 00:17:03,740
raised in South Central.
332
00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:05,659
If I can do it,
anyone can do it.
333
00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:08,310
Don’t let anybody tell
you that you can’t do it.
334
00:17:08,730 --> 00:17:10,760
Because they did tell
me I couldn’t do it.
335
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:14,060
You don't want to listen to
those people because they don’t
336
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:16,000
know you—you might be special.
337
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:16,569
[Music fades out]
338
00:17:19,690 --> 00:17:21,870
Roque: Recurrent is
written and produced by
339
00:17:21,870 --> 00:17:25,310
me, Jaime, with creative
support from Zoe Goldman.
340
00:17:25,849 --> 00:17:28,440
Our executive producer
is Christopher Sprinkle.
341
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,010
To see the photos, head
to getty dot edu slash
342
00:17:32,050 --> 00:17:34,560
podcast slash recurrent
for some of my favorites.
343
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:38,829
The museum has 41 of
George Rodriguez’s images
344
00:17:38,889 --> 00:17:40,170
digitized and viewable.
345
00:17:40,590 --> 00:17:43,470
There’s a link in the show
notes, and for transcripts,
346
00:17:43,490 --> 00:17:47,550
images, and additional
resources, visit getty dot edu
347
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,840
slash podcast slash recurrent.
