WEBVTT
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I remember having a conversation with my band and being like, okay, look, like, I get it.
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You know, if you guys are gonna drink or whatever, like that's fine.
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But can you guys please not like do cocainery on me?
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And they're all like, dude, none of us do coke.
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That was only you.
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And I was like, oh yeah, I guess that's true.
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Hi everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast, a production of recovery.com, the number one place for finding mental health or addiction treatment for anyone, anywhere.
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I'm Britney Baynard.
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Sam's out, but he'll be back soon, and we're so excited to welcome him back.
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In the meantime, we're gonna do some fun comments on my own.
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So let's see here.
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So, first comment today is from at Cheyenne Bernard.
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Ooh, similar last name.
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Okay, Cheyenne Bernard, 2689 on AZ's episode.
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That was a great episode.
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Okay, so I'm only halfway in the video, and it scares me how much I can relate to A's story.
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College started it, man dependence, people chasing.
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The actual reason I'm getting sober because I laugh so much harder sober than I do.
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Three sips in.
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Never would have thought that if I didn't watch this.
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Oh my gosh, that's incredible.
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Sharing these stories, honestly, it's like it helps people that are walking through it, have walked through it to relate, but also just like being able to relate to someone's story and doing a lot of self-reflection.
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That's huge.
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Thank you so much for writing in with that.
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That's incredible.
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Um, so today's episode, today we are joined by Matt Mingus, founding drummer of Dance Gavin Dance, the Sacramento band.
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He's held down for 21 years, 11 albums and four vocalists.
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After 17 years of drinking and using, ended with him being pulled off his own stage in Detroit in 2021.
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He got sober, came home, and helped build a band where every single member is now in recovery.
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How cool is that?
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Uh, so he's going to be sharing his story.
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Absolutely amazing guests.
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Really love getting to sit down and chat with him.
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Let's get into it.
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Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast.
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Today we are joined by Matt Mingus, founding member and drummer of Dance Gavin Dance, the Sacramento band he has held down for 21 years and 11 albums.
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After 17 years of drinking and using ended with him being pulled off his own stage in 2021, he got sober and has publicly since shared his recovery journey and encouraged others to find those as well.
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Matt, welcome to Recovery Cast.
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Oh, I thank you.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yes, thank you so much for coming.
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I'm excited.
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Drums.
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How did how did you pick drums?
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Drums.
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So how did those come in your life?
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I started playing drums when I was nine.
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Nice.
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And it was in school band in elementary school.
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And I walked into the cafeteria one morning and they were rehearsing and they were playing the James Bond theme song.
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Okay, yeah.
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And I was like, holy shit, I want to do that.
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So hanging with the dudes, jamming in the band.
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When for you then does alcohol enter the picture?
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So at that point in time, alcohol had already entered the picture.
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I started at a real young age.
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The first time I drank and I smoked pot would have been when I was nine.
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Around the same time I started playing drums, ironically enough.
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How did you get that at nine?
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So I was always really into skateboarding.
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And that was a lot of it happened for me when I was nine.
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Uh that was also, you know, I started skating and I wanted to hang out with older kids.
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Yeah.
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And I lived, I grew up right next to a high school.
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And so all the older high school kids, they would be like skateboarding to go hang out at this park by our house.
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And so I was that little kid that would like show up and be like, Can you teach me how to kick flip?
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You know?
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Yeah.
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And then one thing led to another, and they'd be doing high school boy things, you know, smoking pot or drinking.
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And so I just I wanted to fit in, you know, like that was I kind of saw that as my in to hang out with some older kids and look cool, you know.
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And so the first time, like I really got drunk.
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I don't know, it was it definitely wasn't the first time I like tasted alcohol, but the first time I got drunk, one of the kids had a bottle of Jack Daniels and it was wrapped in tinfoil, and it was oh, and I remember it just tasted so gross, but like I just I loved the effects produced by it, you know.
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Yeah, just instantly.
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No, I get that.
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I felt goofy and like confident, and like we were just messing around and having a good time.
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Yeah.
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Makes you feel like you've connected with like your buddies, big time, yeah.
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Big time.
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You're part of it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And so early on, though, like I so I started to get in trouble.
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My parent, I I would get caught by my parents, like on a regular basis.
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I was like, how does a nine-year-old hide that?
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Yeah.
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And so it it more so around like age 12 is when it was kind of more frequent, you know?
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And um eighth grade, just uh around that time that I admit the bass player for my for my first band Votality, I got caught selling pot in the bathroom.
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And I got not technically expelled, but I got removed from that school to another school.
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And so my parents put me in an outpatient rehab program.
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Really?
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Yeah.
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At 12?
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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I was required to go to one AA or NA meeting a week.
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And so I would, but I I I didn't really take it serious at that.
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Did you even get like what was happening?
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Not really, but but again, I I would walk into these places and there's all these older people there that I wanted to be friends with.
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I just was always seeking this like validation at a really young age, you know, and wanting to fit in.
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And so I had the bright idea well, I'll I'll just like lie to all these people who want to help me about my sobriety and say I'm sober even though I'm not.
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So I wasn't.
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I was more so looking at a a way to get my parents off my back.
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Yeah.
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And then have this new group of friends.
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And so I was living this really strange double life at an extremely young age.
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Yeah.
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Kind of like polar opposites, too.
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Like you're what you're doing experiencing is not what you're telling people to like please both sides.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so I did that for a whole year, and then I had this thing happen um where I I showed up to this event drunk, and I was with some of my friends from that that that circle of recovery.
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And uh I uh I was drunk and blacked out, and I I got called out, and they told me that I hadn't been fooling anybody, and they knew I was full of shit for the last year.
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Wow.
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And so that was kind of the first moment um where I was like, man, maybe I do have a problem.
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Maybe I'm not too young.
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Like maybe this isn't normal.
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And so I I then I did I did take it serious, and I I managed to stay sober for two years at that point in my life.
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Okay, so then how do we get into 1617 is when you start dance, Gavin Dance?
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Yeah.
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Okay, how do we get that band together?
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Well, uh, I met Will, and uh actually I met Will when I was sober for those those couple of years.
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And uh the first time we met, I was at this coffee shop and I was there.
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I was hanging out with you know, people in recovery and stuff, and uh it was kind of like a cool hip place.
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It was called True Love Cafe in downtown Sacramento.
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And I remember I needed a ride home, and and Will was there, and that was the first time I met him, and he was like, I'll give you a ride home.
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Okay, and he gave me a ride home, and then and then that was it.
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Like then we didn't like reconnect, then maybe for another year or so.
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Oh, and our band, he was in another band called Farewell Unknown, and I was in a band right after Votality.
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I uh joined a band called Left Apart.
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Um and we shared a practice space with Will's band, Farewell Unknown, and they needed, they were wanting to get a new drummer.
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Um, so it wasn't like this whole dramatic thing, but I ended up leaving my band Left Apart and joining Will's band Farewell Unknown, and then that didn't really work out.
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And Will was like, uh like I still want to start a band.
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I know this this singer up in Seattle, which who was our first ended up being our first singer, Johnny Craig.
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And he went and picked him up and we started dance, gavin dance.
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I love that, yeah.
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But you're still like a teenager at this time.
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Everything you describe, I'm like, gosh, you're like living the rock star lifestyle at like a young age.
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Yeah, there's just a lot of stuff going on for you.
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Yeah.
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And I think that, you know, kind of played a role and started to get to my head because then around that same time, I started to distance myself from my recovery friends, and I started to have those thoughts like, maybe I am too young to be an alcoholic or a drug addict.
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And essentially I just came to the decision, like, well, I think I'm normal.
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I'm gonna try some controlled drinking.
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Try to negotiate with yourself, yeah.
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And instantly it was like right when I started, it was like, then I did think I was this like rock star, like living this life, house parties every night.
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You know, it's yeah, it feels like you're living like way beyond the years that you were.
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Yeah.
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So where does this band take off?
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And how do we get on like how do you guys start charting on the billboard?
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Oh man, yeah.
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So we spent basically the first two years writing and jamming music and getting drunk and playing for our girlfriends and her practice studio, and then every once in a while playing like a local show.
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But MySpace shout out.
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Shout out MySpace, yeah.
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Uh that's where I got all my music from back then.
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That was the thing.
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And so a couple of the guys in the band realized, like, oh, we could just like stay up all night and just like add people to check out the band.
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And and they would do they would just sit, um, our screamer John and our bass player Eric, they would just sit in their apartment because that they were roommates and just like add people all night long.
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We grew up in a really good area for like this music scene.
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Yeah, and there was a manager there, um, Eric Rushing, who discovered us and and wanted to start managing us.
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He had a buddy who owned a record label that we're actually still on called Rise Records, um back when it was an independent label.
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Now it's owned by uh BMG.
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But he was into us, signed us, um, brought us up to Portland, Oregon to record our first album.
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We started touring shortly after that, and like the rest is history.
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So you're on tour, and I imagine, yeah, you said you're starting to get the little bigger head rock star lifestyle.
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What do these tours look like for you when it comes to partying?
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Oh man.
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Well, in for the first 10 years of the band, we toured in a van and a trailer.
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And so looking back, it wasn't like this uh super glamorous life.
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Yeah.
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Like the quality of life on the road now is like freaking Gucci compared to that, you know?
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Yeah, how we used to do it.
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And uh we would just like stay at people's houses every night and we just party.
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I don't know, we just drank.
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We drank, drank, drank.
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And early on, you know, that was before the horrendous hangovers started to set in.
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So I could just do that every night and and then keep functioning.
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And uh like I thought that's just what I was supposed to do.
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Right.
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Like sex, drugs, rock and roll.
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Everyone around is doing it too.
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Yeah, and it was like all these guys I looked up to in bigger bands and stuff, like that's what they did, you know?
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So I just kind of looked at that as an excuse.
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But early on, I was pretty good about coming home from being on tour and being able to kind of turn that off.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah, and kind of like chill, like, don't get me wrong, like I'd still go out, but it was more of like a on the weekends, you know?
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Yeah.
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And of course, you know, it's for me, it's a super progressive disease.
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So eventually that went out the window, you know, and I I couldn't turn it off when I got home.
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Do you remember uh a particular city or instance where it started like showing up while you're performing?
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Oh yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, there's a lot of shows that I would drink and play really sloppy, but then at the same time, everyone else in the band was kind of on the same page.
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So I wasn't really having consequences for that.
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But I specifically remember this one.
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It wasn't super long ago.
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It was it was a few years before I got sober, but we were on tour in Europe, um, and we were playing in I think it was outside of Milan, Italy, or something.
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But we stayed up all night partying, and then we had to play the next day, and instead of like sleeping and resting, I remember we were just started drinking mimosas, and uh I can't just have like one mimosa.
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Yeah.
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So it you know, I probably had like two or three bottles of champagne before we played, and I just played like crap.
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And I I think that was kind of maybe around the time where my band was starting to maybe get kind of concerned that, you know, I I was kind of not they're seeing a difference.
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So like, yeah, we party, but like this seems to be a little bit much for you.
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Yeah, it's because there were there there was a period of time too where I was kind of aware of my drinking and that that I played like crap and uh if I was drunk.
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So I would I was pretty good about being able to have like two beers before I played.
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Like that was kind of the magic level.
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That was the number in your head, yeah.
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Yeah, like okay, that takes the edge off.
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I could still perform good, and then I'll party hard afterward, you know, work hard, play hard.
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And uh, but again, like that just it just went away.
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All these rules and boundaries I set for myself eventually just went out the window.
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Once you cross the threshold, it's like you can only negotiate with yourself so long before it's just like, what's the why are we trying to do this every single time?
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Was there ever when you would get off tour, are the people around you, your family people not in your band and that are on tour with you, do they ever notice anything?
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, definitely.
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You know, my my mom, um, she found her way into recovery.
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She is an alcoholic as well.
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And so she got sober.
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And we we have this thing in recovery, as I'm sure you heard, you know, attraction, not promotion.
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Yeah.
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Meaning, like if there's someone in your life you're worried about or you think might benefit from recovery, it's better to just instead of like forcing it on them.
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Yep.
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Yeah.
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Because you could lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
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Yeah.
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And the second you try and push its head down, it's gonna buck and try and back off of you.
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Absolutely.
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And I think that my mom did a really good job with that.
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Um, because she would just remind me, uh, you know, if I if I ever want to come back into the rooms, there's a seat.
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She was letting you watch her live it and like showing you that there's hope.
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She was being kind of like this like silent hope for you that like, you know, this is real, like this is a thing.
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And and it worked because I I did see the big massive change in her in her life.
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Um had you experienced that her life prior to her in recovery.
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Oh, well, yeah, yeah.
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And don't get me wrong, she was an amazing, awesome mom.
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But um, yeah, you know, in in my teen years, or you, you know, uh, she and I started to put things together.
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It's like, oh yeah, my mom.
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Right.
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:04.240
It's not as obvious.
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:05.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:06.240
Yeah.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.799
And you know, I came, my family was just kind of like that, like social family.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:17.039
Like did you talk about drinking in your family outside of like getting in trouble, like for something?
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:18.720
Yeah, no, not really.
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:19.519
No.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.039
Um the drinking wasn't really a thing.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.119
I, you know, uh more so like the pot.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.960
They would they would get really upset with me, you know, for for smoking pot.
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.079
The devil's lettuce.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.359
Yeah, the devil's lettuce.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:33.200
And I was a huge donor.
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:33.920
Same.
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.559
Um, but god, I don't miss that at all.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:37.839
But yeah, I don't know.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.240
We would we would never no one else in my family was in recovery.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:51.279
There, there were people like my um my grandpa, who's technically my step-grandpa, but uh this is the only grandpa I knew.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:57.440
He put down the bottle, you know, like 30 years ago before he passed or something.
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.559
So but he was he like white knuckled it.
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.480
He didn't do recovery, you know.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.559
Um which is like, I feel like it's like half the thing.
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:13.359
It's like, yeah, you're there, but there's this whole piece inside, like you can also like fix that part that was grabbing for it too.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.279
Like it's so important to address that part.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:26.160
Yeah, because I like for me, the alcohol and the drugs, they were the solution to those feelings and and and problems in my life.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.839
So now I take that solution away, so I gotta replace that with something.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.319
Yeah.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:42.319
So it's like, I don't know, we always say it's like, you know, I I I came into recovery for the drinking and I stay in recovery for the thinking.
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:42.880
Yeah.
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:43.440
You know?
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:44.720
Yeah, that's huge.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:45.839
I've never heard that.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.720
I like that.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:58.559
Do you feel like there was a a rock bottom moment for you, or did it just kind of for you become a point that you felt it was too hard or didn't want to manage anymore?
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:03.440
Ooh, man, I I think I had a few rock bottoms.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.559
They you could always dig yourself deeper.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:07.440
Always, yeah.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.319
If we're still here, there's always a deeper, yeah.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.119
Yeah.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:19.680
And it was during COVID, is when just things started to get really shitty.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.799
A lot of my rock bottoms were like very mental and emotional.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:31.200
I didn't necessarily, I'm not someone who uh who lost a lot of things, you know.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:37.680
Like there's a lot of people you meet in recovery that have lost their houses, lost their families, and things like that.
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.480
Um, luckily I didn't, but I do have to remember that to yet.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.839
I very well could if I go back to that lifestyle.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:54.640
But COVID happened and we stopped touring, obviously, because of the lockdowns.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.799
And I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I didn't know how to get through that.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.519
Yeah.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.680
And my solution for that was to just drink and use.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:13.359
I I haven't even mentioned like the other pro underlying problem and substance that's always been here through all this was cocaine.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:13.839
Okay.
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:15.839
When did you start using cocaine?
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:19.279
Uh around like 18 years old.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.200
Yeah, shows up at parties, otherwise.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:32.160
Yeah, yeah, and of of course, for the first several years, it you know, it was just like uh out with the boys, yeah, share a little baggie, you know, do a couple bumps.
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:33.359
It's fine, I'm not buying it.
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.599
Like we're just like out here on like a Saturday night.
00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:36.880
Yeah, you know, yeah.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:45.759
And then it it it then I started partying every night, and then around COVID is when I just went crazy with it.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.039
And I wasn't even drinking, I would just do cocaine.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:51.759
Really?
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.000
And it was I would get psychosis and I was like going insane.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:57.440
Like not sleeping.
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:12.480
And on top of it, um about a year or two prior to COVID, I when my alcoholism was getting like a lot more serious and apparent, and like I'm thinking maybe something's wrong.
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.279
But then I had this brilliant idea where it was like, oh, I know what the problem is.
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.880
I'm depressed.
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:21.920
I need to be on medication for depression.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.400
So I got on medication and then I continued to drink and use.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.119
Yeah.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.599
And drinking on that stuff contributed to the insanity for sure.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:34.079
Yeah.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.279
And it made my drinking way more extreme.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.640
Like my black I no matter what, I'd have two drinks and I'd be blacked out.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.000
And I would just do all sorts of like crazy and weird things.
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:57.039
And my wife, I had gotten married or no, we were engaged still at that time, but because we got married during COVID, uh, she was starting to get really concerned and worried.
00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.759
And I thought I was doing this really good job of like hiring.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.599
Hiding all this stuff from her.
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:04.240
Um you gotta learn you're bad at hiding things.
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:05.599
Oh, so bad.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.200
And I thought I was so good.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.960
I thought I I thought nobody knows.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:09.920
No one knows, man.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:10.720
Nobody knows.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.039
Yeah.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.000
Everybody knows.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:12.640
Everybody.
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.680
Everybody knows.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.680
Um, but yeah, so she started to get worried.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.160
And then so back to where wait, I have a question about her though.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:29.599
So in your relationship, how did you launch your use or did you try hiding it for a while?
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:35.039
So with the drinking and pot, that was pretty accepted by her.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.279
Um not so much the drinking.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.200
She well, I should say not so much like whiskey and stuff.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.559
Yeah, the excessive drinking.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:52.799
Yeah, like if she saw that, it was like, no, but you know, if I if I had a couple beers, like that was okay with her, which was rare because I had never had a couple beers, you know.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.680
And uh but the cocaine she absolutely hated and was disgusted.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.359
So I just I would hide it.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.640
And I think for a little while, I think I was successful.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:12.480
Like, I don't I don't think that she really knew because I wasn't getting like yeah, you're not doing it so much, yeah.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:21.279
But then around COVID, when that really progressed and kind of became like the main substance.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:21.759
Yeah.
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.000
I mean, she knew, and I and you're in lockdown together, like it's hard to hide something.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:32.160
I go like sit in the bathroom for like an hour thinking, oh, she just thinks I've gone to the bathroom.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.559
That man takes the longest movies, yeah.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:43.759
And then she knows she'd come in and it was like this just weird cat and mouse game that I put her through, and she'd come in and like look at the counter, be like, What's this?
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.279
Yeah, I don't know.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.920
Yeah, and it was just uh, I don't know, it was just gross.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.119
And um, I used to be embarrassed when I talked about it.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.440
Like, I've definitely gotta remove the shame.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.200
I removed the shame.
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:01.039
I don't regret the past, but I also can't shut the door on it.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.519
Um, I'm just lucky that she's still with me after everything that I put her through.
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:06.480
That's awesome.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:11.279
You guys, so you guys ended up getting married during COVID or after during COVID.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:20.400
We went from 150-person wedding at a whole at a venue to a 15-person wedding in our plague, man.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.680
It knocked everybody out.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:22.480
Wow.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:22.960
Yeah.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:24.319
Oh, that's tough.
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:25.839
But it was a blessing.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.160
Yeah.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.640
And it was it was cool and kind of special.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:29.119
Yeah.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:29.519
Yeah.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.200
I'm very curious about like the relationships like in recovery too.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.720
What was it like for you guys navigating your recovery post treatment?
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.759
Yeah, I mean, it was new territory.
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:52.000
I know she was, she could sleep better at night, um, certainly, knowing that I was was trying um to make a change and to be sober.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:59.440
But when I got out, we did do a few rounds of like marriage counseling to help navigate this new territory.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.319
And I do think that was really beneficial.
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:10.720
But then we kind of realized we were like, oh, well, now that the drinking and the drugs are out of the equation, like we're we don't really have any problems.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.640
I'm not lying to you about anything else.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.359
Like, yeah, like the whole issue was like the lying and like the sneaking around and the drugs and alcohol.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:18.480
Now that those are gone.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.119
Yeah.
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.079
Okay, like as long as you're good there, we should be good here.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:23.359
Yeah, so we only did a few.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.559
We didn't continue that very long, but it but it was beneficial.
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:31.440
And um, I mean, she's like my number one supporter, you know.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:33.680
That's awesome.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.759
And and it's funny too, because uh she's she's a normal person, she's not an alcoholic or a drug addict.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:47.440
But when I first got sober and we'd like go out, I'd be like, you know, like you can have a drink, like just because I don't doesn't mean you can't.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.039
And she's like, I only drank because you did.
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.359
And so she's actually been sober as long as I have.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:54.960
Oh, that's maybe sooner.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:56.160
Uh I think she got sober.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.119
Unintentionally, yeah.
00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:57.599
Yeah.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.799
Oh, I'd love to then hear about when it is you did choose to get sober.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:03.440
Yeah.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:05.839
If you don't mind telling us that story, absolutely.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:20.720
So the pandemic went by, and all these horrible things happened, and the emotional bottoms just kept like your livelihood was like social being out, performing, being in groups of people, thousands of people, and it just gets just shut down.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:30.400
And so I just isolated, but for some reason, uh well, not for some reason, my alcoholism and addiction was started to enjoy the isolation.
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:31.519
That's what it wants.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.799
Because yeah, then no one could judge me from the whole, yeah, from the whole thing.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.240
You can just do whatever I want.
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.079
And uh, and things just got so bad, and I I would like look at myself in the mirror and just like be disgusted.
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:54.400
And I would like have like a little bit of coke left over from the night before, and I'd I'd be like, Oh, this I can't do this anymore, and I'd flush it down the toilet, and then like a few hours later, like calling my guy.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.359
And it was just this cycle I was just stuck in.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.400
And I I just I knew what I was doing was wrong.
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:05.200
And I had this moment where I was leaving.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:10.960
Uh, we had we had band practice because we were still kind of getting together once in a while to play to do something.
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:16.079
And I was leaving and I was like, I'm not gonna call, I'm not gonna call my guy.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.279
Like, I can't do this.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:20.960
And I sat there for like 10 minutes and I was like, I gotta get it.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.039
And I called him and I went and picked up.
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.759
And that was kind of a moment where it was like, I'm I'm beholden to this thing.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.880
Yeah, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.160
This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com.
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:47.039
Recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them.
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You can filter by location, price, insurance, coverage, therapy type, mental health condition, levels of care, and so much more.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:02.400
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00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.039
And so then um things started to open back up.
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:19.119
We had a tour booked, and I really was convinced that going on tour was gonna like pull me out of the dark place I'd been in and give me as my sense of purpose in life again.
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:26.400
Um, at that time I thought playing in music in Dance Gavin Dance was my sense of purpose, you know, and my identity.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:33.519
And uh, and so I went on the road and it was it was just it was worse, you know.
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.720
Like now I didn't have my wife there.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:45.680
I could thought I could do whatever I wanted, and this all the guys in my band, they had all kind of sobered up.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:46.400
Yeah.
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:59.759
And they were really concerned, and I had a few warnings, if you want to call it that, like basically light interventions, like get it together, yeah.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:12.160
Like I remember it's a little blurry because I was not sober, but our guitar player Will pulled me aside and he was really, really worried and kind of pleading with me like that I need to stop.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:19.279
And uh, but I kind of like took all that as like I'll show these guys, you know?
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:30.799
And so we were playing in Detroit, and uh I've a lot of our fans you know this story, but um for those who don't, we're playing a show in Detroit.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.160
I was up for like a couple days on a bender.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:44.240
Yeah, and even though cocaine, alcohol, and and weed were like my main substances, there was other a lot of other stuff that I participated in.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:45.359
You're on the road, yeah.
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.880
Yeah, I mean, I was a dumpster for drugs, you know.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.279
I just if you had it, I'll I'll try it.
00:29:52.079 --> 00:30:03.119
And so I took some Xanax, some ketamine shrooms, and I was going hard, and uh my band told me I need to sober up.
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.119
I said, no, I'll be fine.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.640
And I went out to perform.
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.119
It was a sold-out show at the Masonic Temple in Detroit, which holds like 5,000 people.
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:18.319
We were headlining, and I walk out to play, and I was like, Oh yeah, I got this.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.359
Like, it was like fucking crazy.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:27.440
I was tripping, I ate a bunch of mushrooms, and first song goes by, went okay.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.720
It was a little sloppy.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:36.160
Second song, a little more sloppy, third song, uh, I think is when it all kind of hit me, and I couldn't play.
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.920
I physically couldn't play.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.359
I I'd like stopped like during a song, and they my drum tech came up on stage and like ushered me off.
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:54.160
And uh at this point, up until then, I really thought I was like irreplaceable in Dance Gavin Dance.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:31:05.440
Um, but then my drum tech got up and finished the set for me and ended up finishing that whole tour for me, and that was a really humbling experience that I needed.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.839
Did it feel that way in the moment?
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:12.480
No, in the moment it was like, what the hell did I just do?
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:14.319
I just threw away everything.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:16.079
I just threw it all away.
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:22.880
And I went back and I like broke down and I had like kind of a mental breakdown.
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:34.480
Um, but I finally had that moment and like gift of desperation where it was like, I need help and I can't do this anymore.
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.079
And I don't know what to do, but I'll find someone who can help me and figure out what to do.
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:40.799
That's huge.
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:56.319
So I reached out to our manager, and he was like, All right, I'm gonna call Music Cares, um, which is an organization that um helps musicians and people in the entertainment industry um get into rehabs, they offer all sorts of services.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:56.880
That's cool.
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.160
I've never heard of that before.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:06.240
Yeah, their own um they're partners with like the Grammys and uh a really, really good organization.
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:10.319
And I know they've saved a lot of people and they've definitely helped save me.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:18.000
And sure enough, they've they were able to find me um a bed in a treatment facility the next day.
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:19.279
Oh, wow.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:24.640
So I woke up the next morning and my wife was not on the tour with me.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.039
She was not in Detroit with me that night.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:38.720
And I woke up the next morning and my wife was there, and I came to, and I didn't really have much of a recollection other than like that feeling of like it's all coming.
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.720
The doom of call it waking up at the crack of doom.
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.880
Like I just knew whatever I did, I fucked up.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.240
And uh, and my wife told me what had happened.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.799
She told me I agreed to go to treatment.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:33:00.000
So, of course, I spent like an hour pleading and saying, No, I I I'll I'll go after the tour.
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.039
Like, I I'm not ready.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.079
Um, I I need the income from this tour.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:13.039
And um, and basically essentially I came to the realization like it was now or never.
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.359
And I didn't know what that meant with my band.
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:20.400
I didn't know if that meant me giving that up.
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.160
Um, but I knew that I just had to go.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.400
That's a lot to be feeling.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:26.960
Yeah.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.359
And I was I was scared shitless.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:29.759
Yeah.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.279
I couldn't stop crying.
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:39.119
I called my parents, they couldn't they were really emotional, but at the same time, like this time.
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:39.920
Happy.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:40.400
Yeah.
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.920
You know, and like it was just, yeah.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:56.799
It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but also I had this feeling of like hope and ease that like I'm done.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.359
Yeah.
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.039
I I I don't I don't want to do this anymore, you know?
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.039
It was like in that moment, like something changed, you know?
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:23.199
And uh and so yeah, so I flew to Pasadena, checked into treatment, and right when I sat down, it was like they had all this recovery slogans and things on the wall, and uh it was just like was like oh I'm home for real, you know.
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:32.559
And um they could they like give you give you a few days to like detox, and I was like, no, like I want to get right in it.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.239
So uh next day participated in all the things and just like got right to work.
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.880
Like we were talking about before, no rest when you get there.
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:42.320
You gotta just like roll into it.
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:43.519
Just roll with it, yeah.
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:44.400
Yeah, just roll with it.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:45.599
Wow, that's huge.
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:55.199
Um, what if you don't mind like telling us a few things that you got out of that treatment that have helped you maintain your sobriety?
00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.559
Yeah, I think um one of the big things I got out of that, you know, was accountability.
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:08.800
Um halfway through, it was it was a 30-day facility, and halfway through I was like, I got this.
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.880
Like, I know what to do.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.079
Yeah, I know how to connect with other people in recovery.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:14.880
Bye, guys.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:26.559
Yeah, and and I called a new friend of mine that I had met down there, and he was helping me a lot and and taking me through, you know, literature and things.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:31.039
And uh I told him, and he was like, dude, you don't got shit.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:36.880
You committed to yourself and to your family that you're gonna stay there for 30 days.
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.360
So I don't think you should leave.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:39.760
Yeah.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.159
And I was like, oh, he's right.
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.000
And it was so stupid when I looked back.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:51.440
The reason that I wanted to leave too was like I thought that the food sucked and like all this just yeah, the trivial thing.
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:52.480
Yeah.
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:58.000
No, I mean, I I will the website we work for, recovery.com.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:05.760
Like, I work with providers to make sure that we show and feature their facility on our site 100% accurate.
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.280
Cause I'm like, I don't want one little speed bump.
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.840
Like, hey, I saw this pool in the backyard and it's not here.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.480
And I got here, like, no, we are not yeah, I'm out.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.800
Sorry, no pickleball by no, like we are that was.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.159
I'm not even joking.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:21.920
Yep, I knew, I knew one of the issues.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:22.559
I know it is.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.679
There is a freaking swimming pool on the brochure, and there is not one in the backyard, but there was one around the corner that they would take us to.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.840
So uh they made up for it there.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:33.840
But yes, it's like a very real thing.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:40.239
Like, whatever little roadblock is there, someone's gonna try and grab that for like a reason to leave.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:41.199
Yeah, well, yeah.
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:46.239
And before I went in, I was talking on the phone with them, you know, because they're making sure.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.159
I was like, Well, can I smoke cigarettes in there?
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.440
You're like, Yeah.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.400
Like, will I be able to watch Netflix?
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.320
It's just like the stupidest.
00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:56.960
I know.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.519
It's like when someone's like, so we're about to do this whole life-changing thing.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.960
It's gonna be 30 days where we're gonna take you out of your lifestyle and put you here.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:06.079
Do you have any questions?
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:07.280
Is there Netflix?
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.320
Like, yeah, it's like, but like, I don't blame you.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:11.519
We need some of our comforts.
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:12.400
I just need to know.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:20.000
Yeah, but so yeah, so I got yeah, a lot of accountability out of impatient.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:26.159
I know for me, it was like nice to have that safe space.
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:32.079
Um, but the real test is, you know, when you get out.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:38.000
And they made or they didn't make us, but one of the assignments, because they didn't make us do anything.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:39.199
I wasn't forced to any of this.
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:40.559
The front door was unlocked.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:40.880
Yeah.
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.280
You know, you could leave jail you want.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:52.320
Um, but I took all this stuff serious and I they had us make an exit plan, exit strategy.
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.440
And when I got out, sure enough, I mean, I did everything on that list.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:58.079
Good for you.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.679
And I stayed accountable to myself.
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:00.480
Good for you.
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.519
And the first thing on the list was right when I got home, was you know, to connect with other people in recovery.
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:10.159
And uh, and I did that right away.
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:10.960
Good.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:26.320
And all those guys that I met on that day when I got out, and some of them remet because I had been sober before, um, are like my best friends and my group of guys like still nearly five years later.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.760
That's amazing.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.480
Uh, when you got out of treatment, was there a moment like that first two weeks in where you're like, I got this?
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.400
Or did you catch yourself and you're like, like, stay humble?
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:40.000
No, I was I was good.
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:48.320
I like when I got out, I I knew um, you know, every day I have to do this, I have to do that, and I and I stuck with it.
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:49.199
That's awesome.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.400
And because like I felt good, yeah.
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.599
You know, like we we call it the pink cloud, yeah.
00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:02.400
And I was definitely riding one, and it was like, you know, those first 90 days, it was like, oh my god, this is amazing.
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.719
This new life is awesome.
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:10.400
And uh, but it's like life is still in session.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:21.760
I was gonna say it's just until life happens, and then you know, things things started to happen, and then I had to, you know, learn how to navigate through that stuff sober.
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:26.400
A buddy of mine just just the other night said something that really resonated with me.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.719
It's like when you get sober, you're gonna feel better, but that doesn't mean you're gonna feel better, yeah, like feel good, you're gonna feel your feelings better.
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:37.679
Yeah, yep.
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.960
Um and be able to walk with those feelings, yeah.
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:56.960
So we, you know, I started to have life happen, and and right around six months sober, um, our bass player who struggled with addiction, he overdosed on fentanyl and died.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:58.480
Oh my gosh.
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:05.920
And he he was a really close friend of mine, and he he had been struggling to for a while.
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:10.400
Um, and he had agreed to go to the same rehab that I went to.
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:21.119
And he went and he ended up, he excused himself two days early and left, and then went home and overdosed that night.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:30.159
And it was it rocked like my whole world and everybody, you know, and the band and around me.
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:42.320
And um, and that was rough, but I just like utilized the tools that I was taught here, and I just leaned on people, you know.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:52.239
And um, like I would just remind myself that you know, getting loaded or drinking, it's not gonna solve anything.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.880
No, it's not, and it's like, okay, I got this really big, awful problem.
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.920
Well, now let me just introduce this other huge and awful problem into my life and drink over it.
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:03.599
It's not gonna fix anything.
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.159
Right.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.119
Especially considering how he passed.
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.239
Absolutely.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.760
He yeah, he would want you to remain in recovery.
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:12.400
Yeah.
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:14.400
I would imagine there are a lot.
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:19.199
I'm just my brain was going wild when you said that because it's like you had gotten out of treatment.
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:20.719
It's like six months out.
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:26.559
You're just starting to be able to like, I'm feeling my feelings now for the first time in decades.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:32.960
What were your thoughts then as somebody who got out of treatment and is maintaining sobriety?
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:37.360
And then to have a friend pass from an accidental overdose.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.559
What are the thoughts going through your head at that time?
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:42.239
I mean, it was hard.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:58.719
It, you know, I'd spent the six months before that, you know, learning all about my disease and and addiction and alcoholism, and and so watching him still be active in that before he passed.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.239
It's like I said earlier, it's attraction, not promotion.
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:02.800
Yeah.
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:08.639
So there's the big part of me that wanted to say, there's another way of life, you know, but we can't do that.
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:09.440
Just show him.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:16.079
I can just show up and and live my life and be there for him if he was interested.
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:28.079
But then it becomes a matter of uh there's one there's on one hand good friends, but then on the other hand, there's business and work partners.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:34.480
And so if you're slacking at your job, yeah, then so it was kind of hard.
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.760
It was it was a gray area, but we were all really concerned about him.
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:45.199
Um, you know, we'd have like band calls and he'd be like nodding off, and it was just it it was really hard to watch.
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:51.360
So finally we kind of had to give him an ultimatum, yeah, similar to the same one that was presented to me.
00:42:52.079 --> 00:43:09.119
And uh and when he passed, it was like it was just a reminder too of how serious this issue of and disease or whatever you want to call it, of alcoholism and addiction, it it it is so serious.
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.360
It's taking life, it's taking so many lives.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:12.960
It takes lives.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:18.239
Me, myself, and anyone else in recovery or sobriety, like we're the lucky ones.
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.800
Like we got out because not everybody does.
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:22.159
Not everyone does.
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:22.880
Yeah.
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.719
Um, and before we move on, just thank you for sharing about that.
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.840
And I'm just really sorry for the loss of him.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:40.320
You get out of treatment, and in as you went in, you did mention, like, I go in and I don't even know like where I am with the band anymore.
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:45.360
Like, I'm going in here because like I I feel like like I am I don't have a choice right now.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.119
Like I have to do this for me.
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:54.400
And you get out and you get to go back in the band, and we're creating uh the sober lifestyle for yourself.
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:57.760
But like the lifestyle itself is still there.
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.719
How did you in sobriety and navigate like the music life?
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:03.519
Yeah.
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:12.480
Um first of all, I was beyond grateful that I didn't get kicked out from the band.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:12.719
Yeah.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:13.280
You know?
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:23.039
Um they were all really, you know, proud of me for getting sober and um the band was just it's always been so important to me.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:26.159
But um I didn't know what that was going to look like.
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:26.880
Yeah.
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:29.599
And I definitely know I had a little bit of fear.
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:39.920
But when I was in in treatment, I got hooked up with a group of guys on Zoom who were all musicians and people in the entertainment industry.
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:41.920
I love that finding groups within the group.
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:42.400
That's cool.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:53.280
And a lot of those guys had been sober for a really long time and still toured and lived this cool rock and roll lifestyle sober.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.199
And that gave me a lot of hope.
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.280
It was like okay I can do this.
00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.639
Yeah I it can be done.
00:44:58.800 --> 00:44:59.280
Yep.
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:08.239
Um and then as I continue my journey I hook up with so many others like there's a lot of us a lot of us are sober especially nowadays.
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:14.880
But I did have fear you know going into my first tour sober.
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:25.920
It was different but I remember having a conversation with my band and being like okay look like I get it you know if you guys are gonna drink or whatever like that's fine.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:33.679
But can you guys please not like do cocaine around me and they're all like dude none of us do coke.
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:38.079
That was only you and I was like oh yeah I guess that's true.
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:50.559
So um but uh yeah so I quickly learned like okay a lot of this type of behavior it was all me.
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:51.519
Was I the problem?
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:59.679
It was me yeah it was me and so I got lucky in a sense where I and still you know I don't really have to be around it.
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:00.159
Yeah.
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.119
Like we're back stage just hanging out.
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:03.920
That's awesome.
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:12.559
Yeah I play a show and then I wind down for a little bit watch TV and go to bed you know and guess what I get to wake up in the morning and feel pretty good.
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:17.199
I remember so yeah I I thought I once I got sober I was gonna like feel great.
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:30.400
No but then age crept up a little yeah so I'll get you I feel good definitely better but yeah I don't have that guilt or shame or remorse or like wondering what happened the night before or just like feel so sick.
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:38.559
Um like I feel good on tour you know and and I get to be there for the purpose that we're there.
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:49.360
Yeah and that is to like play music give our fans a cool experience and have fun and like that's that's the only drug that I need you get to show up.
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:50.800
Yeah yeah that's awesome.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:47:35.360
Yeah so the band has seen uh tons of changes in the past few years one of which being that the entire band is sober that is so cool how does this happen uh I think like every and I don't want to front there you know there's there's a guy that that does smoke pot but he's not one of us and he has every right to do that you know um but nobody drinks there's no alcohol and there's no other drugs for that matter um I think everyone just got older people had kids yeah and they take the job serious you know and they they weren't like me where you know they're able to just decide I don't want to do this anymore.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:40.719
Um and it has just completely changed the dynamic of our band.
00:47:40.880 --> 00:48:01.760
It's unbelievable like rarely any drama I say rarely because we're living together for months at a time of course and you're creating there's always different of course stuff's gonna happen but it's not like the it's not like drama drama it's not substance fueled yeah it's just like okay man I woke up on the wrong side of the bed I kind of accidentally snapped at this guy.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:03.199
You know things like that happen.
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:04.480
We're we're human.
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:20.159
Um but it's like I don't know we all just get along we're good like everyone really gives it their all to perform and just like I feel like we're just better than we've ever been and we've been a band for 21 years.
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:25.119
So that's pretty crazy that I could say that now at this point you know two decades.
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.000
Wow I've been in the band longer than I haven't been in the band.
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:33.519
That's so cool to say about yeah yeah that's awesome.
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:38.800
So I feel like a ton of people listening to this are scared to get sober.
00:48:39.039 --> 00:49:59.199
Some people if they are musicians or creatives, what if that kills my creativity or just the fear of what is on the other side of getting clean what do you have to say to them or what advice would you give them oh man there's so much I could say um one of the most important things is you don't have to do this alone you know I couldn't it's a it's a we it's a we program deal you know um and as far as the creativity goes I wasn't sure how that was going to work either and I feel like I'm far more creative when when we write I like everything comes quicker and uh I'm just more present in the creative process and that in itself for me is like a drug you know and uh there's just anywhere I go there's recovery it's all over the world you know it's 2026 so even if that's just on on Zoom if it's just a text on my phone it or if it's something in person you know it's recovery is everywhere.
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:05.920
And uh it's one of those things like we mentioned, you know, this is a life or death deal.
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:18.159
Um unfortunately some of us have to die for others to get it but I would you know rather be on the other side of that and I want to live and I want to continue to play music.
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:25.119
I want to continue to help others find their way into this lifestyle if they're interested.
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:28.239
And uh I know that it's scary.
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:36.639
It was so scary to make this change but it at the end of the day for me I can only speak for myself like was all worth it.
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:38.559
You know that's awesome.
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:41.039
Matt, thank you so much for sharing your story.
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:47.760
Yeah we're really really grateful to have you here and thank you all for joining and listening um what do you got coming up?
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.679
Where can people follow you?
00:50:49.920 --> 00:51:27.360
Share yeah yeah yeah uh we're really busy um we are playing the Aftershock music festival in Sacramento California on October 3rd or 4th but uh and then we got a tour in uh Australia coming up in November and we're in the process we finished recording a new album and that'll be out hopefully spring of next year um and we'll coincide with a US tour so just keep your eyes and ears out for that stuff and I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be here.
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:43.199
We appreciate you so much uh thank you all and we'll catch you next time on Recovery Cast this episode was hosted by Brittany Bahnard produced by Sam Roberts production assistance and editing by Max Olmsted and booking and travel by Riley Whalen.
00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:46.320
Recoverycast is a production of recovery.com
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.799
I remember having a conversation with my band and being like, okay, look, like, I get it.
00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:07.759
You know, if you guys are gonna drink or whatever, like that's fine.
00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:11.119
But can you guys please not like do cocainery on me?
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:14.320
And they're all like, dude, none of us do coke.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:15.519
That was only you.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:18.399
And I was like, oh yeah, I guess that's true.
00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:36.479
Hi everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast, a production of recovery.com, the number one place for finding mental health or addiction treatment for anyone, anywhere.
00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:37.840
I'm Britney Baynard.
00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:42.000
Sam's out, but he'll be back soon, and we're so excited to welcome him back.
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:47.679
In the meantime, we're gonna do some fun comments on my own.
00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:48.960
So let's see here.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.240
So, first comment today is from at Cheyenne Bernard.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:53.359
Ooh, similar last name.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.119
Okay, Cheyenne Bernard, 2689 on AZ's episode.
00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:58.560
That was a great episode.
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:04.879
Okay, so I'm only halfway in the video, and it scares me how much I can relate to A's story.
00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:08.159
College started it, man dependence, people chasing.
00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:12.480
The actual reason I'm getting sober because I laugh so much harder sober than I do.
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:13.599
Three sips in.
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:16.560
Never would have thought that if I didn't watch this.
00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.040
Oh my gosh, that's incredible.
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:31.280
Sharing these stories, honestly, it's like it helps people that are walking through it, have walked through it to relate, but also just like being able to relate to someone's story and doing a lot of self-reflection.
00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:32.000
That's huge.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:34.000
Thank you so much for writing in with that.
00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:35.359
That's incredible.
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Um, so today's episode, today we are joined by Matt Mingus, founding drummer of Dance Gavin Dance, the Sacramento band.
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He's held down for 21 years, 11 albums and four vocalists.
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After 17 years of drinking and using, ended with him being pulled off his own stage in Detroit in 2021.
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He got sober, came home, and helped build a band where every single member is now in recovery.
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How cool is that?
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Uh, so he's going to be sharing his story.
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Absolutely amazing guests.
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Really love getting to sit down and chat with him.
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Let's get into it.
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Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast.
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Today we are joined by Matt Mingus, founding member and drummer of Dance Gavin Dance, the Sacramento band he has held down for 21 years and 11 albums.
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After 17 years of drinking and using ended with him being pulled off his own stage in 2021, he got sober and has publicly since shared his recovery journey and encouraged others to find those as well.
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Matt, welcome to Recovery Cast.
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Oh, I thank you.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yes, thank you so much for coming.
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I'm excited.
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Drums.
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How did how did you pick drums?
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Drums.
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So how did those come in your life?
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I started playing drums when I was nine.
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Nice.
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And it was in school band in elementary school.
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And I walked into the cafeteria one morning and they were rehearsing and they were playing the James Bond theme song.
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Okay, yeah.
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And I was like, holy shit, I want to do that.
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So hanging with the dudes, jamming in the band.
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When for you then does alcohol enter the picture?
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So at that point in time, alcohol had already entered the picture.
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I started at a real young age.
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The first time I drank and I smoked pot would have been when I was nine.
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Around the same time I started playing drums, ironically enough.
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How did you get that at nine?
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So I was always really into skateboarding.
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And that was a lot of it happened for me when I was nine.
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Uh that was also, you know, I started skating and I wanted to hang out with older kids.
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Yeah.
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And I lived, I grew up right next to a high school.
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And so all the older high school kids, they would be like skateboarding to go hang out at this park by our house.
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And so I was that little kid that would like show up and be like, Can you teach me how to kick flip?
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You know?
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Yeah.
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And then one thing led to another, and they'd be doing high school boy things, you know, smoking pot or drinking.
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And so I just I wanted to fit in, you know, like that was I kind of saw that as my in to hang out with some older kids and look cool, you know.
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And so the first time, like I really got drunk.
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I don't know, it was it definitely wasn't the first time I like tasted alcohol, but the first time I got drunk, one of the kids had a bottle of Jack Daniels and it was wrapped in tinfoil, and it was oh, and I remember it just tasted so gross, but like I just I loved the effects produced by it, you know.
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Yeah, just instantly.
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No, I get that.
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I felt goofy and like confident, and like we were just messing around and having a good time.
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Yeah.
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Makes you feel like you've connected with like your buddies, big time, yeah.
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Big time.
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You're part of it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And so early on, though, like I so I started to get in trouble.
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My parent, I I would get caught by my parents, like on a regular basis.
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I was like, how does a nine-year-old hide that?
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Yeah.
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And so it it more so around like age 12 is when it was kind of more frequent, you know?
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And um eighth grade, just uh around that time that I admit the bass player for my for my first band Votality, I got caught selling pot in the bathroom.
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And I got not technically expelled, but I got removed from that school to another school.
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And so my parents put me in an outpatient rehab program.
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Really?
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Yeah.
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At 12?
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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I was required to go to one AA or NA meeting a week.
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And so I would, but I I I didn't really take it serious at that.
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Did you even get like what was happening?
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Not really, but but again, I I would walk into these places and there's all these older people there that I wanted to be friends with.
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I just was always seeking this like validation at a really young age, you know, and wanting to fit in.
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And so I had the bright idea well, I'll I'll just like lie to all these people who want to help me about my sobriety and say I'm sober even though I'm not.
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So I wasn't.
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I was more so looking at a a way to get my parents off my back.
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Yeah.
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And then have this new group of friends.
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And so I was living this really strange double life at an extremely young age.
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Yeah.
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Kind of like polar opposites, too.
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Like you're what you're doing experiencing is not what you're telling people to like please both sides.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so I did that for a whole year, and then I had this thing happen um where I I showed up to this event drunk, and I was with some of my friends from that that that circle of recovery.
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And uh I uh I was drunk and blacked out, and I I got called out, and they told me that I hadn't been fooling anybody, and they knew I was full of shit for the last year.
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Wow.
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And so that was kind of the first moment um where I was like, man, maybe I do have a problem.
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Maybe I'm not too young.
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Like maybe this isn't normal.
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And so I I then I did I did take it serious, and I I managed to stay sober for two years at that point in my life.
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Okay, so then how do we get into 1617 is when you start dance, Gavin Dance?
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Yeah.
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Okay, how do we get that band together?
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Well, uh, I met Will, and uh actually I met Will when I was sober for those those couple of years.
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And uh the first time we met, I was at this coffee shop and I was there.
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I was hanging out with you know, people in recovery and stuff, and uh it was kind of like a cool hip place.
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It was called True Love Cafe in downtown Sacramento.
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And I remember I needed a ride home, and and Will was there, and that was the first time I met him, and he was like, I'll give you a ride home.
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Okay, and he gave me a ride home, and then and then that was it.
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:14.480
Like then we didn't like reconnect, then maybe for another year or so.
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Oh, and our band, he was in another band called Farewell Unknown, and I was in a band right after Votality.
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I uh joined a band called Left Apart.
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Um and we shared a practice space with Will's band, Farewell Unknown, and they needed, they were wanting to get a new drummer.
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Um, so it wasn't like this whole dramatic thing, but I ended up leaving my band Left Apart and joining Will's band Farewell Unknown, and then that didn't really work out.
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And Will was like, uh like I still want to start a band.
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I know this this singer up in Seattle, which who was our first ended up being our first singer, Johnny Craig.
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And he went and picked him up and we started dance, gavin dance.
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I love that, yeah.
00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:08.480
But you're still like a teenager at this time.
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Everything you describe, I'm like, gosh, you're like living the rock star lifestyle at like a young age.
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Yeah, there's just a lot of stuff going on for you.
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Yeah.
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And I think that, you know, kind of played a role and started to get to my head because then around that same time, I started to distance myself from my recovery friends, and I started to have those thoughts like, maybe I am too young to be an alcoholic or a drug addict.
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And essentially I just came to the decision, like, well, I think I'm normal.
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I'm gonna try some controlled drinking.
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Try to negotiate with yourself, yeah.
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And instantly it was like right when I started, it was like, then I did think I was this like rock star, like living this life, house parties every night.
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.759
You know, it's yeah, it feels like you're living like way beyond the years that you were.
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Yeah.
00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.279
So where does this band take off?
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:14.000
And how do we get on like how do you guys start charting on the billboard?
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Oh man, yeah.
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:32.080
So we spent basically the first two years writing and jamming music and getting drunk and playing for our girlfriends and her practice studio, and then every once in a while playing like a local show.
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But MySpace shout out.
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Shout out MySpace, yeah.
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Uh that's where I got all my music from back then.
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That was the thing.
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And so a couple of the guys in the band realized, like, oh, we could just like stay up all night and just like add people to check out the band.
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And and they would do they would just sit, um, our screamer John and our bass player Eric, they would just sit in their apartment because that they were roommates and just like add people all night long.
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:04.559
We grew up in a really good area for like this music scene.
00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:11.759
Yeah, and there was a manager there, um, Eric Rushing, who discovered us and and wanted to start managing us.
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He had a buddy who owned a record label that we're actually still on called Rise Records, um back when it was an independent label.
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Now it's owned by uh BMG.
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But he was into us, signed us, um, brought us up to Portland, Oregon to record our first album.
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We started touring shortly after that, and like the rest is history.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:45.120
So you're on tour, and I imagine, yeah, you said you're starting to get the little bigger head rock star lifestyle.
00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.879
What do these tours look like for you when it comes to partying?
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.080
Oh man.
00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:59.279
Well, in for the first 10 years of the band, we toured in a van and a trailer.
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And so looking back, it wasn't like this uh super glamorous life.
00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:06.159
Yeah.
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:12.639
Like the quality of life on the road now is like freaking Gucci compared to that, you know?
00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:14.399
Yeah, how we used to do it.
00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:19.919
And uh we would just like stay at people's houses every night and we just party.
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.200
I don't know, we just drank.
00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:23.360
We drank, drank, drank.
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:29.279
And early on, you know, that was before the horrendous hangovers started to set in.
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:33.279
So I could just do that every night and and then keep functioning.
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And uh like I thought that's just what I was supposed to do.
00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:39.600
Right.
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:41.360
Like sex, drugs, rock and roll.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:42.799
Everyone around is doing it too.
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:49.360
Yeah, and it was like all these guys I looked up to in bigger bands and stuff, like that's what they did, you know?
00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.960
So I just kind of looked at that as an excuse.
00:12:53.200 --> 00:13:00.720
But early on, I was pretty good about coming home from being on tour and being able to kind of turn that off.
00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:01.519
Oh, really?
00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:08.159
Yeah, and kind of like chill, like, don't get me wrong, like I'd still go out, but it was more of like a on the weekends, you know?
00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:08.879
Yeah.
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.919
And of course, you know, it's for me, it's a super progressive disease.
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:18.960
So eventually that went out the window, you know, and I I couldn't turn it off when I got home.
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:29.840
Do you remember uh a particular city or instance where it started like showing up while you're performing?
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:30.960
Oh yeah.
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:31.679
Yeah.
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:44.080
I mean, there's a lot of shows that I would drink and play really sloppy, but then at the same time, everyone else in the band was kind of on the same page.
00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:47.440
So I wasn't really having consequences for that.
00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:50.159
But I specifically remember this one.
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:51.840
It wasn't super long ago.
00:13:51.919 --> 00:14:01.759
It was it was a few years before I got sober, but we were on tour in Europe, um, and we were playing in I think it was outside of Milan, Italy, or something.
00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:15.759
But we stayed up all night partying, and then we had to play the next day, and instead of like sleeping and resting, I remember we were just started drinking mimosas, and uh I can't just have like one mimosa.
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:16.320
Yeah.
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:24.799
So it you know, I probably had like two or three bottles of champagne before we played, and I just played like crap.
00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:34.799
And I I think that was kind of maybe around the time where my band was starting to maybe get kind of concerned that, you know, I I was kind of not they're seeing a difference.
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.720
So like, yeah, we party, but like this seems to be a little bit much for you.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:49.440
Yeah, it's because there were there there was a period of time too where I was kind of aware of my drinking and that that I played like crap and uh if I was drunk.
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:54.159
So I would I was pretty good about being able to have like two beers before I played.
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.679
Like that was kind of the magic level.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.519
That was the number in your head, yeah.
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:01.679
Yeah, like okay, that takes the edge off.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:07.360
I could still perform good, and then I'll party hard afterward, you know, work hard, play hard.
00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.360
And uh, but again, like that just it just went away.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.320
All these rules and boundaries I set for myself eventually just went out the window.
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:25.919
Once you cross the threshold, it's like you can only negotiate with yourself so long before it's just like, what's the why are we trying to do this every single time?
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:35.360
Was there ever when you would get off tour, are the people around you, your family people not in your band and that are on tour with you, do they ever notice anything?
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:36.399
Oh, yeah.
00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:37.759
Yeah, definitely.
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:44.080
You know, my my mom, um, she found her way into recovery.
00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.399
She is an alcoholic as well.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.440
And so she got sober.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:55.679
And we we have this thing in recovery, as I'm sure you heard, you know, attraction, not promotion.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:55.919
Yeah.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:08.559
Meaning, like if there's someone in your life you're worried about or you think might benefit from recovery, it's better to just instead of like forcing it on them.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:09.039
Yep.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.440
Yeah.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:13.360
Because you could lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:13.759
Yeah.
00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:18.399
And the second you try and push its head down, it's gonna buck and try and back off of you.
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:19.120
Absolutely.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.399
And I think that my mom did a really good job with that.
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:30.240
Um, because she would just remind me, uh, you know, if I if I ever want to come back into the rooms, there's a seat.
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.480
She was letting you watch her live it and like showing you that there's hope.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:39.679
She was being kind of like this like silent hope for you that like, you know, this is real, like this is a thing.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.440
And and it worked because I I did see the big massive change in her in her life.
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.639
Um had you experienced that her life prior to her in recovery.
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:52.000
Oh, well, yeah, yeah.
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.039
And don't get me wrong, she was an amazing, awesome mom.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:01.519
But um, yeah, you know, in in my teen years, or you, you know, uh, she and I started to put things together.
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:02.799
It's like, oh yeah, my mom.
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:03.440
Right.
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:04.240
It's not as obvious.
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:05.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:06.240
Yeah.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.799
And you know, I came, my family was just kind of like that, like social family.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:17.039
Like did you talk about drinking in your family outside of like getting in trouble, like for something?
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:18.720
Yeah, no, not really.
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:19.519
No.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.039
Um the drinking wasn't really a thing.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.119
I, you know, uh more so like the pot.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.960
They would they would get really upset with me, you know, for for smoking pot.
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.079
The devil's lettuce.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.359
Yeah, the devil's lettuce.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:33.200
And I was a huge donor.
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:33.920
Same.
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.559
Um, but god, I don't miss that at all.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:37.839
But yeah, I don't know.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.240
We would we would never no one else in my family was in recovery.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:51.279
There, there were people like my um my grandpa, who's technically my step-grandpa, but uh this is the only grandpa I knew.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:57.440
He put down the bottle, you know, like 30 years ago before he passed or something.
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.559
So but he was he like white knuckled it.
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.480
He didn't do recovery, you know.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.559
Um which is like, I feel like it's like half the thing.
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:13.359
It's like, yeah, you're there, but there's this whole piece inside, like you can also like fix that part that was grabbing for it too.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.279
Like it's so important to address that part.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:26.160
Yeah, because I like for me, the alcohol and the drugs, they were the solution to those feelings and and and problems in my life.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.839
So now I take that solution away, so I gotta replace that with something.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.319
Yeah.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:42.319
So it's like, I don't know, we always say it's like, you know, I I I came into recovery for the drinking and I stay in recovery for the thinking.
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:42.880
Yeah.
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:43.440
You know?
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:44.720
Yeah, that's huge.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:45.839
I've never heard that.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.720
I like that.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:58.559
Do you feel like there was a a rock bottom moment for you, or did it just kind of for you become a point that you felt it was too hard or didn't want to manage anymore?
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:03.440
Ooh, man, I I think I had a few rock bottoms.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.559
They you could always dig yourself deeper.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:07.440
Always, yeah.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.319
If we're still here, there's always a deeper, yeah.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.119
Yeah.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:19.680
And it was during COVID, is when just things started to get really shitty.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.799
A lot of my rock bottoms were like very mental and emotional.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:31.200
I didn't necessarily, I'm not someone who uh who lost a lot of things, you know.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:37.680
Like there's a lot of people you meet in recovery that have lost their houses, lost their families, and things like that.
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.480
Um, luckily I didn't, but I do have to remember that to yet.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.839
I very well could if I go back to that lifestyle.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:54.640
But COVID happened and we stopped touring, obviously, because of the lockdowns.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.799
And I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I didn't know how to get through that.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.519
Yeah.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.680
And my solution for that was to just drink and use.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:13.359
I I haven't even mentioned like the other pro underlying problem and substance that's always been here through all this was cocaine.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:13.839
Okay.
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:15.839
When did you start using cocaine?
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:19.279
Uh around like 18 years old.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.200
Yeah, shows up at parties, otherwise.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:32.160
Yeah, yeah, and of of course, for the first several years, it you know, it was just like uh out with the boys, yeah, share a little baggie, you know, do a couple bumps.
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:33.359
It's fine, I'm not buying it.
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.599
Like we're just like out here on like a Saturday night.
00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:36.880
Yeah, you know, yeah.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:45.759
And then it it it then I started partying every night, and then around COVID is when I just went crazy with it.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.039
And I wasn't even drinking, I would just do cocaine.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:51.759
Really?
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.000
And it was I would get psychosis and I was like going insane.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:57.440
Like not sleeping.
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:12.480
And on top of it, um about a year or two prior to COVID, I when my alcoholism was getting like a lot more serious and apparent, and like I'm thinking maybe something's wrong.
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.279
But then I had this brilliant idea where it was like, oh, I know what the problem is.
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.880
I'm depressed.
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:21.920
I need to be on medication for depression.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.400
So I got on medication and then I continued to drink and use.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.119
Yeah.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.599
And drinking on that stuff contributed to the insanity for sure.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:34.079
Yeah.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.279
And it made my drinking way more extreme.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.640
Like my black I no matter what, I'd have two drinks and I'd be blacked out.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.000
And I would just do all sorts of like crazy and weird things.
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:57.039
And my wife, I had gotten married or no, we were engaged still at that time, but because we got married during COVID, uh, she was starting to get really concerned and worried.
00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.759
And I thought I was doing this really good job of like hiring.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.599
Hiding all this stuff from her.
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:04.240
Um you gotta learn you're bad at hiding things.
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:05.599
Oh, so bad.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.200
And I thought I was so good.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.960
I thought I I thought nobody knows.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:09.920
No one knows, man.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:10.720
Nobody knows.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.039
Yeah.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.000
Everybody knows.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:12.640
Everybody.
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.680
Everybody knows.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.680
Um, but yeah, so she started to get worried.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.160
And then so back to where wait, I have a question about her though.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:29.599
So in your relationship, how did you launch your use or did you try hiding it for a while?
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:35.039
So with the drinking and pot, that was pretty accepted by her.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.279
Um not so much the drinking.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.200
She well, I should say not so much like whiskey and stuff.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.559
Yeah, the excessive drinking.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:52.799
Yeah, like if she saw that, it was like, no, but you know, if I if I had a couple beers, like that was okay with her, which was rare because I had never had a couple beers, you know.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.680
And uh but the cocaine she absolutely hated and was disgusted.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.359
So I just I would hide it.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.640
And I think for a little while, I think I was successful.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:12.480
Like, I don't I don't think that she really knew because I wasn't getting like yeah, you're not doing it so much, yeah.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:21.279
But then around COVID, when that really progressed and kind of became like the main substance.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:21.759
Yeah.
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.000
I mean, she knew, and I and you're in lockdown together, like it's hard to hide something.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:32.160
I go like sit in the bathroom for like an hour thinking, oh, she just thinks I've gone to the bathroom.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.559
That man takes the longest movies, yeah.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:43.759
And then she knows she'd come in and it was like this just weird cat and mouse game that I put her through, and she'd come in and like look at the counter, be like, What's this?
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.279
Yeah, I don't know.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.920
Yeah, and it was just uh, I don't know, it was just gross.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.119
And um, I used to be embarrassed when I talked about it.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.440
Like, I've definitely gotta remove the shame.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.200
I removed the shame.
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:01.039
I don't regret the past, but I also can't shut the door on it.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.519
Um, I'm just lucky that she's still with me after everything that I put her through.
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:06.480
That's awesome.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:11.279
You guys, so you guys ended up getting married during COVID or after during COVID.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:20.400
We went from 150-person wedding at a whole at a venue to a 15-person wedding in our plague, man.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.680
It knocked everybody out.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:22.480
Wow.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:22.960
Yeah.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:24.319
Oh, that's tough.
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:25.839
But it was a blessing.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.160
Yeah.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.640
And it was it was cool and kind of special.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:29.119
Yeah.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:29.519
Yeah.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.200
I'm very curious about like the relationships like in recovery too.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.720
What was it like for you guys navigating your recovery post treatment?
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.759
Yeah, I mean, it was new territory.
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:52.000
I know she was, she could sleep better at night, um, certainly, knowing that I was was trying um to make a change and to be sober.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:59.440
But when I got out, we did do a few rounds of like marriage counseling to help navigate this new territory.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.319
And I do think that was really beneficial.
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:10.720
But then we kind of realized we were like, oh, well, now that the drinking and the drugs are out of the equation, like we're we don't really have any problems.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.640
I'm not lying to you about anything else.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.359
Like, yeah, like the whole issue was like the lying and like the sneaking around and the drugs and alcohol.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:18.480
Now that those are gone.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.119
Yeah.
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.079
Okay, like as long as you're good there, we should be good here.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:23.359
Yeah, so we only did a few.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.559
We didn't continue that very long, but it but it was beneficial.
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:31.440
And um, I mean, she's like my number one supporter, you know.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:33.680
That's awesome.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.759
And and it's funny too, because uh she's she's a normal person, she's not an alcoholic or a drug addict.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:47.440
But when I first got sober and we'd like go out, I'd be like, you know, like you can have a drink, like just because I don't doesn't mean you can't.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.039
And she's like, I only drank because you did.
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.359
And so she's actually been sober as long as I have.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:54.960
Oh, that's maybe sooner.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:56.160
Uh I think she got sober.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.119
Unintentionally, yeah.
00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:57.599
Yeah.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.799
Oh, I'd love to then hear about when it is you did choose to get sober.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:03.440
Yeah.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:05.839
If you don't mind telling us that story, absolutely.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:20.720
So the pandemic went by, and all these horrible things happened, and the emotional bottoms just kept like your livelihood was like social being out, performing, being in groups of people, thousands of people, and it just gets just shut down.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:30.400
And so I just isolated, but for some reason, uh well, not for some reason, my alcoholism and addiction was started to enjoy the isolation.
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:31.519
That's what it wants.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.799
Because yeah, then no one could judge me from the whole, yeah, from the whole thing.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.240
You can just do whatever I want.
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.079
And uh, and things just got so bad, and I I would like look at myself in the mirror and just like be disgusted.
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:54.400
And I would like have like a little bit of coke left over from the night before, and I'd I'd be like, Oh, this I can't do this anymore, and I'd flush it down the toilet, and then like a few hours later, like calling my guy.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.359
And it was just this cycle I was just stuck in.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.400
And I I just I knew what I was doing was wrong.
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:05.200
And I had this moment where I was leaving.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:10.960
Uh, we had we had band practice because we were still kind of getting together once in a while to play to do something.
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:16.079
And I was leaving and I was like, I'm not gonna call, I'm not gonna call my guy.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.279
Like, I can't do this.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:20.960
And I sat there for like 10 minutes and I was like, I gotta get it.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.039
And I called him and I went and picked up.
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.759
And that was kind of a moment where it was like, I'm I'm beholden to this thing.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.880
Yeah, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.160
This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com.
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:47.039
Recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them.
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You can filter by location, price, insurance, coverage, therapy type, mental health condition, levels of care, and so much more.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:02.400
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00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.039
And so then um things started to open back up.
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:19.119
We had a tour booked, and I really was convinced that going on tour was gonna like pull me out of the dark place I'd been in and give me as my sense of purpose in life again.
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:26.400
Um, at that time I thought playing in music in Dance Gavin Dance was my sense of purpose, you know, and my identity.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:33.519
And uh, and so I went on the road and it was it was just it was worse, you know.
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.720
Like now I didn't have my wife there.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:45.680
I could thought I could do whatever I wanted, and this all the guys in my band, they had all kind of sobered up.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:46.400
Yeah.
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:59.759
And they were really concerned, and I had a few warnings, if you want to call it that, like basically light interventions, like get it together, yeah.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:12.160
Like I remember it's a little blurry because I was not sober, but our guitar player Will pulled me aside and he was really, really worried and kind of pleading with me like that I need to stop.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:19.279
And uh, but I kind of like took all that as like I'll show these guys, you know?
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:30.799
And so we were playing in Detroit, and uh I've a lot of our fans you know this story, but um for those who don't, we're playing a show in Detroit.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.160
I was up for like a couple days on a bender.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:44.240
Yeah, and even though cocaine, alcohol, and and weed were like my main substances, there was other a lot of other stuff that I participated in.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:45.359
You're on the road, yeah.
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.880
Yeah, I mean, I was a dumpster for drugs, you know.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.279
I just if you had it, I'll I'll try it.
00:29:52.079 --> 00:30:03.119
And so I took some Xanax, some ketamine shrooms, and I was going hard, and uh my band told me I need to sober up.
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.119
I said, no, I'll be fine.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.640
And I went out to perform.
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.119
It was a sold-out show at the Masonic Temple in Detroit, which holds like 5,000 people.
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:18.319
We were headlining, and I walk out to play, and I was like, Oh yeah, I got this.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.359
Like, it was like fucking crazy.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:27.440
I was tripping, I ate a bunch of mushrooms, and first song goes by, went okay.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.720
It was a little sloppy.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:36.160
Second song, a little more sloppy, third song, uh, I think is when it all kind of hit me, and I couldn't play.
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.920
I physically couldn't play.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.359
I I'd like stopped like during a song, and they my drum tech came up on stage and like ushered me off.
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:54.160
And uh at this point, up until then, I really thought I was like irreplaceable in Dance Gavin Dance.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:31:05.440
Um, but then my drum tech got up and finished the set for me and ended up finishing that whole tour for me, and that was a really humbling experience that I needed.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.839
Did it feel that way in the moment?
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:12.480
No, in the moment it was like, what the hell did I just do?
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:14.319
I just threw away everything.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:16.079
I just threw it all away.
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:22.880
And I went back and I like broke down and I had like kind of a mental breakdown.
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:34.480
Um, but I finally had that moment and like gift of desperation where it was like, I need help and I can't do this anymore.
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.079
And I don't know what to do, but I'll find someone who can help me and figure out what to do.
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:40.799
That's huge.
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:56.319
So I reached out to our manager, and he was like, All right, I'm gonna call Music Cares, um, which is an organization that um helps musicians and people in the entertainment industry um get into rehabs, they offer all sorts of services.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:56.880
That's cool.
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.160
I've never heard of that before.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:06.240
Yeah, their own um they're partners with like the Grammys and uh a really, really good organization.
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:10.319
And I know they've saved a lot of people and they've definitely helped save me.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:18.000
And sure enough, they've they were able to find me um a bed in a treatment facility the next day.
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:19.279
Oh, wow.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:24.640
So I woke up the next morning and my wife was not on the tour with me.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.039
She was not in Detroit with me that night.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:38.720
And I woke up the next morning and my wife was there, and I came to, and I didn't really have much of a recollection other than like that feeling of like it's all coming.
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.720
The doom of call it waking up at the crack of doom.
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.880
Like I just knew whatever I did, I fucked up.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.240
And uh, and my wife told me what had happened.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.799
She told me I agreed to go to treatment.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:33:00.000
So, of course, I spent like an hour pleading and saying, No, I I I'll I'll go after the tour.
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.039
Like, I I'm not ready.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.079
Um, I I need the income from this tour.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:13.039
And um, and basically essentially I came to the realization like it was now or never.
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.359
And I didn't know what that meant with my band.
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:20.400
I didn't know if that meant me giving that up.
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.160
Um, but I knew that I just had to go.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.400
That's a lot to be feeling.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:26.960
Yeah.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.359
And I was I was scared shitless.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:29.759
Yeah.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.279
I couldn't stop crying.
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:39.119
I called my parents, they couldn't they were really emotional, but at the same time, like this time.
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:39.920
Happy.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:40.400
Yeah.
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.920
You know, and like it was just, yeah.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:56.799
It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but also I had this feeling of like hope and ease that like I'm done.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.359
Yeah.
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.039
I I I don't I don't want to do this anymore, you know?
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.039
It was like in that moment, like something changed, you know?
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:23.199
And uh and so yeah, so I flew to Pasadena, checked into treatment, and right when I sat down, it was like they had all this recovery slogans and things on the wall, and uh it was just like was like oh I'm home for real, you know.
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:32.559
And um they could they like give you give you a few days to like detox, and I was like, no, like I want to get right in it.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.239
So uh next day participated in all the things and just like got right to work.
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.880
Like we were talking about before, no rest when you get there.
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:42.320
You gotta just like roll into it.
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:43.519
Just roll with it, yeah.
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:44.400
Yeah, just roll with it.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:45.599
Wow, that's huge.
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:55.199
Um, what if you don't mind like telling us a few things that you got out of that treatment that have helped you maintain your sobriety?
00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.559
Yeah, I think um one of the big things I got out of that, you know, was accountability.
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:08.800
Um halfway through, it was it was a 30-day facility, and halfway through I was like, I got this.
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.880
Like, I know what to do.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.079
Yeah, I know how to connect with other people in recovery.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:14.880
Bye, guys.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:26.559
Yeah, and and I called a new friend of mine that I had met down there, and he was helping me a lot and and taking me through, you know, literature and things.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:31.039
And uh I told him, and he was like, dude, you don't got shit.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:36.880
You committed to yourself and to your family that you're gonna stay there for 30 days.
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.360
So I don't think you should leave.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:39.760
Yeah.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.159
And I was like, oh, he's right.
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.000
And it was so stupid when I looked back.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:51.440
The reason that I wanted to leave too was like I thought that the food sucked and like all this just yeah, the trivial thing.
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:52.480
Yeah.
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:58.000
No, I mean, I I will the website we work for, recovery.com.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:05.760
Like, I work with providers to make sure that we show and feature their facility on our site 100% accurate.
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.280
Cause I'm like, I don't want one little speed bump.
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.840
Like, hey, I saw this pool in the backyard and it's not here.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.480
And I got here, like, no, we are not yeah, I'm out.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.800
Sorry, no pickleball by no, like we are that was.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.159
I'm not even joking.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:21.920
Yep, I knew, I knew one of the issues.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:22.559
I know it is.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.679
There is a freaking swimming pool on the brochure, and there is not one in the backyard, but there was one around the corner that they would take us to.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.840
So uh they made up for it there.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:33.840
But yes, it's like a very real thing.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:40.239
Like, whatever little roadblock is there, someone's gonna try and grab that for like a reason to leave.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:41.199
Yeah, well, yeah.
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:46.239
And before I went in, I was talking on the phone with them, you know, because they're making sure.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.159
I was like, Well, can I smoke cigarettes in there?
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.440
You're like, Yeah.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.400
Like, will I be able to watch Netflix?
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.320
It's just like the stupidest.
00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:56.960
I know.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.519
It's like when someone's like, so we're about to do this whole life-changing thing.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.960
It's gonna be 30 days where we're gonna take you out of your lifestyle and put you here.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:06.079
Do you have any questions?
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:07.280
Is there Netflix?
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.320
Like, yeah, it's like, but like, I don't blame you.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:11.519
We need some of our comforts.
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:12.400
I just need to know.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:20.000
Yeah, but so yeah, so I got yeah, a lot of accountability out of impatient.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:26.159
I know for me, it was like nice to have that safe space.
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:32.079
Um, but the real test is, you know, when you get out.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:38.000
And they made or they didn't make us, but one of the assignments, because they didn't make us do anything.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:39.199
I wasn't forced to any of this.
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:40.559
The front door was unlocked.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:40.880
Yeah.
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.280
You know, you could leave jail you want.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:52.320
Um, but I took all this stuff serious and I they had us make an exit plan, exit strategy.
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.440
And when I got out, sure enough, I mean, I did everything on that list.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:58.079
Good for you.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.679
And I stayed accountable to myself.
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:00.480
Good for you.
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.519
And the first thing on the list was right when I got home, was you know, to connect with other people in recovery.
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:10.159
And uh, and I did that right away.
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:10.960
Good.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:26.320
And all those guys that I met on that day when I got out, and some of them remet because I had been sober before, um, are like my best friends and my group of guys like still nearly five years later.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.760
That's amazing.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.480
Uh, when you got out of treatment, was there a moment like that first two weeks in where you're like, I got this?
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.400
Or did you catch yourself and you're like, like, stay humble?
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:40.000
No, I was I was good.
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:48.320
I like when I got out, I I knew um, you know, every day I have to do this, I have to do that, and I and I stuck with it.
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:49.199
That's awesome.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.400
And because like I felt good, yeah.
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.599
You know, like we we call it the pink cloud, yeah.
00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:02.400
And I was definitely riding one, and it was like, you know, those first 90 days, it was like, oh my god, this is amazing.
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.719
This new life is awesome.
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:10.400
And uh, but it's like life is still in session.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:21.760
I was gonna say it's just until life happens, and then you know, things things started to happen, and then I had to, you know, learn how to navigate through that stuff sober.
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:26.400
A buddy of mine just just the other night said something that really resonated with me.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.719
It's like when you get sober, you're gonna feel better, but that doesn't mean you're gonna feel better, yeah, like feel good, you're gonna feel your feelings better.
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:37.679
Yeah, yep.
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.960
Um and be able to walk with those feelings, yeah.
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:56.960
So we, you know, I started to have life happen, and and right around six months sober, um, our bass player who struggled with addiction, he overdosed on fentanyl and died.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:58.480
Oh my gosh.
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:05.920
And he he was a really close friend of mine, and he he had been struggling to for a while.
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:10.400
Um, and he had agreed to go to the same rehab that I went to.
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:21.119
And he went and he ended up, he excused himself two days early and left, and then went home and overdosed that night.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:30.159
And it was it rocked like my whole world and everybody, you know, and the band and around me.
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:42.320
And um, and that was rough, but I just like utilized the tools that I was taught here, and I just leaned on people, you know.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:52.239
And um, like I would just remind myself that you know, getting loaded or drinking, it's not gonna solve anything.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.880
No, it's not, and it's like, okay, I got this really big, awful problem.
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.920
Well, now let me just introduce this other huge and awful problem into my life and drink over it.
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:03.599
It's not gonna fix anything.
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.159
Right.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.119
Especially considering how he passed.
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.239
Absolutely.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.760
He yeah, he would want you to remain in recovery.
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:12.400
Yeah.
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:14.400
I would imagine there are a lot.
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:19.199
I'm just my brain was going wild when you said that because it's like you had gotten out of treatment.
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:20.719
It's like six months out.
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:26.559
You're just starting to be able to like, I'm feeling my feelings now for the first time in decades.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:32.960
What were your thoughts then as somebody who got out of treatment and is maintaining sobriety?
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:37.360
And then to have a friend pass from an accidental overdose.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.559
What are the thoughts going through your head at that time?
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:42.239
I mean, it was hard.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:58.719
It, you know, I'd spent the six months before that, you know, learning all about my disease and and addiction and alcoholism, and and so watching him still be active in that before he passed.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.239
It's like I said earlier, it's attraction, not promotion.
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:02.800
Yeah.
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:08.639
So there's the big part of me that wanted to say, there's another way of life, you know, but we can't do that.
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:09.440
Just show him.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:16.079
I can just show up and and live my life and be there for him if he was interested.
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:28.079
But then it becomes a matter of uh there's one there's on one hand good friends, but then on the other hand, there's business and work partners.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:34.480
And so if you're slacking at your job, yeah, then so it was kind of hard.
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.760
It was it was a gray area, but we were all really concerned about him.
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:45.199
Um, you know, we'd have like band calls and he'd be like nodding off, and it was just it it was really hard to watch.
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:51.360
So finally we kind of had to give him an ultimatum, yeah, similar to the same one that was presented to me.
00:42:52.079 --> 00:43:09.119
And uh and when he passed, it was like it was just a reminder too of how serious this issue of and disease or whatever you want to call it, of alcoholism and addiction, it it it is so serious.
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.360
It's taking life, it's taking so many lives.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:12.960
It takes lives.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:18.239
Me, myself, and anyone else in recovery or sobriety, like we're the lucky ones.
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.800
Like we got out because not everybody does.
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:22.159
Not everyone does.
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:22.880
Yeah.
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.719
Um, and before we move on, just thank you for sharing about that.
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.840
And I'm just really sorry for the loss of him.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:40.320
You get out of treatment, and in as you went in, you did mention, like, I go in and I don't even know like where I am with the band anymore.
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:45.360
Like, I'm going in here because like I I feel like like I am I don't have a choice right now.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.119
Like I have to do this for me.
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:54.400
And you get out and you get to go back in the band, and we're creating uh the sober lifestyle for yourself.
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:57.760
But like the lifestyle itself is still there.
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.719
How did you in sobriety and navigate like the music life?
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:03.519
Yeah.
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:12.480
Um first of all, I was beyond grateful that I didn't get kicked out from the band.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:12.719
Yeah.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:13.280
You know?
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:23.039
Um they were all really, you know, proud of me for getting sober and um the band was just it's always been so important to me.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:26.159
But um I didn't know what that was going to look like.
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:26.880
Yeah.
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:29.599
And I definitely know I had a little bit of fear.
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:39.920
But when I was in in treatment, I got hooked up with a group of guys on Zoom who were all musicians and people in the entertainment industry.
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:41.920
I love that finding groups within the group.
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:42.400
That's cool.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:53.280
And a lot of those guys had been sober for a really long time and still toured and lived this cool rock and roll lifestyle sober.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.199
And that gave me a lot of hope.
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.280
It was like okay I can do this.
00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.639
Yeah I it can be done.
00:44:58.800 --> 00:44:59.280
Yep.
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:08.239
Um and then as I continue my journey I hook up with so many others like there's a lot of us a lot of us are sober especially nowadays.
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:14.880
But I did have fear you know going into my first tour sober.
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:25.920
It was different but I remember having a conversation with my band and being like okay look like I get it you know if you guys are gonna drink or whatever like that's fine.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:33.679
But can you guys please not like do cocaine around me and they're all like dude none of us do coke.
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:38.079
That was only you and I was like oh yeah I guess that's true.
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:50.559
So um but uh yeah so I quickly learned like okay a lot of this type of behavior it was all me.
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:51.519
Was I the problem?
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:59.679
It was me yeah it was me and so I got lucky in a sense where I and still you know I don't really have to be around it.
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:00.159
Yeah.
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.119
Like we're back stage just hanging out.
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:03.920
That's awesome.
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:12.559
Yeah I play a show and then I wind down for a little bit watch TV and go to bed you know and guess what I get to wake up in the morning and feel pretty good.
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:17.199
I remember so yeah I I thought I once I got sober I was gonna like feel great.
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:30.400
No but then age crept up a little yeah so I'll get you I feel good definitely better but yeah I don't have that guilt or shame or remorse or like wondering what happened the night before or just like feel so sick.
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:38.559
Um like I feel good on tour you know and and I get to be there for the purpose that we're there.
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:49.360
Yeah and that is to like play music give our fans a cool experience and have fun and like that's that's the only drug that I need you get to show up.
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:50.800
Yeah yeah that's awesome.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:47:35.360
Yeah so the band has seen uh tons of changes in the past few years one of which being that the entire band is sober that is so cool how does this happen uh I think like every and I don't want to front there you know there's there's a guy that that does smoke pot but he's not one of us and he has every right to do that you know um but nobody drinks there's no alcohol and there's no other drugs for that matter um I think everyone just got older people had kids yeah and they take the job serious you know and they they weren't like me where you know they're able to just decide I don't want to do this anymore.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:40.719
Um and it has just completely changed the dynamic of our band.
00:47:40.880 --> 00:48:01.760
It's unbelievable like rarely any drama I say rarely because we're living together for months at a time of course and you're creating there's always different of course stuff's gonna happen but it's not like the it's not like drama drama it's not substance fueled yeah it's just like okay man I woke up on the wrong side of the bed I kind of accidentally snapped at this guy.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:03.199
You know things like that happen.
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:04.480
We're we're human.
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:20.159
Um but it's like I don't know we all just get along we're good like everyone really gives it their all to perform and just like I feel like we're just better than we've ever been and we've been a band for 21 years.
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:25.119
So that's pretty crazy that I could say that now at this point you know two decades.
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.000
Wow I've been in the band longer than I haven't been in the band.
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:33.519
That's so cool to say about yeah yeah that's awesome.
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:38.800
So I feel like a ton of people listening to this are scared to get sober.
00:48:39.039 --> 00:49:59.199
Some people if they are musicians or creatives, what if that kills my creativity or just the fear of what is on the other side of getting clean what do you have to say to them or what advice would you give them oh man there's so much I could say um one of the most important things is you don't have to do this alone you know I couldn't it's a it's a we it's a we program deal you know um and as far as the creativity goes I wasn't sure how that was going to work either and I feel like I'm far more creative when when we write I like everything comes quicker and uh I'm just more present in the creative process and that in itself for me is like a drug you know and uh there's just anywhere I go there's recovery it's all over the world you know it's 2026 so even if that's just on on Zoom if it's just a text on my phone it or if it's something in person you know it's recovery is everywhere.
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:05.920
And uh it's one of those things like we mentioned, you know, this is a life or death deal.
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:18.159
Um unfortunately some of us have to die for others to get it but I would you know rather be on the other side of that and I want to live and I want to continue to play music.
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:25.119
I want to continue to help others find their way into this lifestyle if they're interested.
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:28.239
And uh I know that it's scary.
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:36.639
It was so scary to make this change but it at the end of the day for me I can only speak for myself like was all worth it.
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:38.559
You know that's awesome.
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:41.039
Matt, thank you so much for sharing your story.
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:47.760
Yeah we're really really grateful to have you here and thank you all for joining and listening um what do you got coming up?
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.679
Where can people follow you?
00:50:49.920 --> 00:51:27.360
Share yeah yeah yeah uh we're really busy um we are playing the Aftershock music festival in Sacramento California on October 3rd or 4th but uh and then we got a tour in uh Australia coming up in November and we're in the process we finished recording a new album and that'll be out hopefully spring of next year um and we'll coincide with a US tour so just keep your eyes and ears out for that stuff and I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be here.
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:43.199
We appreciate you so much uh thank you all and we'll catch you next time on Recovery Cast this episode was hosted by Brittany Bahnard produced by Sam Roberts production assistance and editing by Max Olmsted and booking and travel by Riley Whalen.
00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:46.320
Recoverycast is a production of recovery.com
