WEBVTT
00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:03.200
Hey, I'm your host, Jessica Lynn Lewis.
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.320
Today, I want to introduce you to Emily Cox.
00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.640
Let's do a thing where you don't just have to stare at a stranger and be like, hello, you've come to this new office that you've never met before.
00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.399
Now tell me about the worst thing that's ever happened in your life that you like never want to talk about.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:18.160
That sounds terrible for anyone, right?
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:23.440
Sometimes I describe ADHD or autism as like, everyone else got the handbook, but we didn't.
00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:29.920
If your brain often feels too much, here's a therapist's guide to regulation, connection, and ADHD.
00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:30.719
Teens are great.
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:31.839
They like put up a front.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.159
I love like a 50, 14-year-old girl.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:40.799
But like once you get through that and play Jenga, then they just want to be like accepted and loved like anybody else.
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.320
This is Quick Wins for ADHD moms.
00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.320
We're so excited to have Emily Cox on the show today.
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.159
Thank you so much, Emily, for joining us.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.000
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:52.399
Yeah.
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.039
So we always start our show with a quick win.
00:00:55.280 --> 00:01:03.439
Um, what has worked, you know, a tip or trick or something that has really worked with some of the kids or even parents that you've worked with.
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:04.640
Yeah, totally.
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:12.079
So one thing that I usually recommend is like physically changing our environment when possible, when overstimulated.
00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:20.400
Sometimes when we're kind of overwhelmed, whether we're kid, teen, adult, and we're just like, ah, this is too much information at once.
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.159
Like physically going outside or even going to a different room.
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:34.719
This works a lot too with people who have work from home or do a lot of like computer-based things, whether it's kids with homework or adults with work, that like we feel swamped by emails.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:36.799
Everything's so like abstract, right?
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.719
It's just like in our heads what are keeping track of.
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:39.439
Gotta get this done.
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.040
Sometimes get this done, gotta get this back.
00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.200
Our overwhelm is so abstract.
00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.200
And it just is like this giant mountain that we're like, oh, I can't ever get to the top of that.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:02:01.519
Sometimes just like getting up and going to a different room or like going, and this is not like you don't have to go stare at the sun for however, like it's literally 30 seconds, or just like, I'm going to get a cup of water from the kitchen, or I'm going to like do this thing here.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:10.080
It like physically resets our brain in a way because we're in a different like physical environment that then we're like looking at different things in the room.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:19.120
It can be really helpful, especially for neurodivergent brains, because they get so clogged on to the like abstract things that then it's like, oh wait, here's a concrete setting.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.400
Oh wait, here's like something in front of me that I can focus on.
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:27.039
Like, is this email really gonna come out of my computer and like bite me and attack me?
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:27.680
Maybe not.
00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:28.960
That's what it feels like in the moment.
00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:30.240
It does feel like that a lot.
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.159
Yeah, I've got like 10 of them right now that I'm like, they're eating me right now.
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:34.960
Exactly.
00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.240
It's like, is my boss really going to fire me over this one email?
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.639
Or like, am I okay in the next 30 seconds?
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.680
In the next 60 seconds, is the tiger gonna eat me?
00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:44.639
Probably not.
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.120
But our brain doesn't know that when we're sitting staring at it.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.919
So then it's just like, get up, move, get up, be, and then return back.
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.840
That it's like, okay, I can do this now.
00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.400
All right, I can manage this, I can handle this.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:57.919
Yeah, I know I love that.
00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:58.960
That's such a great tip.
00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:00.879
And it's so easy and it's free.
00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:01.840
Right.
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:03.280
It's not complicated.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.520
Try to be as straightforward as possible.
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:06.879
Yeah, I love it.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:08.879
So, Emily, tell us what you do.
00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:18.639
I know you work with a lot of divergent children and teens and families, but I'd love to hear a little bit of your history, like why you decided to go into this and and what you do.
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:23.680
Yeah, I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor in private practice.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:29.520
Um, and I work mainly with kids and teens and some young adults and like adults in transition as well.
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:33.759
Um, I kind of like tripped and fell into the kid teen space.
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.800
Um, when I was in my educational journey, I was like, children are gross, they're sticky, I don't want to be around them.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:40.479
Ew, don't put me in a school.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:41.439
I'm gonna be miserable.
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.599
I only want to do college kids and adults.
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.280
Like, don't put me around children.
00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:50.479
Um, and then I had an internship opportunity where it was like, you take what you get and you don't get upset.
00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:50.800
Right.
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:57.039
And like whatever walks in the door, like I had a wonderful supervisor who was like, this is the time to learn, this is the time to grow.
00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.479
Like, don't say no to anything.
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:02.159
You have support, you have people here, you're not gonna get out of your depth.
00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:04.240
Like, if you need help, you can access it.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.240
But like, this is the time to learn and grow.
00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:10.479
And like I really took to that advice and it really served me in a powerful way.
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:17.439
Um, so through that, I saw everywhere from like three years old to 83 years old and was an incredible experience.
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:22.319
And then I found out that like kids are fun, uh, especially therapy with kids are fun.
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.480
Um, and they go home at the end of the day.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.519
I think wonderful and go back to your parents.
00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:28.319
Yeah, exactly.
00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.000
I don't have them for eight hours at school.
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.480
I have them for like 45 to 55 minutes.
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:33.360
It's great.
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:41.920
Um, but like I love working with kids and teens just because they're so like adult, sometimes we have plaque.
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.240
We have like defense mechanisms, we have things built up because we've been through a lot.
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.199
We've had experiences, we've been hurt, we've been harmed.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:53.519
Um, things have happened where like safety is not guaranteed a lot of the times.
00:04:53.759 --> 00:05:00.480
So sometimes we have to like break through that plaque to get to the like vulnerability in the soft white underbelly.
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.279
Whereas kids, whatever's going on is directly in the room.
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:04.240
You don't have to dig for it.
00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.839
It's fair, which is like, you know, in some ways can be challenging.
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:16.800
I find it really like refreshing and beautiful in a way of like, especially more of the littles, like five and under, like they're gonna what's happening with them is very apparent.
00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.279
Like they're gonna tell you and it's gonna be very present.
00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:27.680
And then they're also like so open to trying things and changing and like having that neuroplasticity, but also like expressing their needs.
00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:29.839
If they don't want to do something, they're gonna tell you.
00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.040
If they are liking something or enjoying something, they're gonna tell you.
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.959
So it's not this like digging and having to go through the subtext, like it's there.
00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:37.839
Even with teens.
00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:38.639
Teens are great.
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:39.680
They like put up a front.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:41.920
I love like a pissy 14-year-old girl.
00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:48.079
But like once you get through that and play Jenga, then they just want to be like accepted and loved like anybody else.
00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:49.759
I love how you said play Jenga.
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:52.079
I was on your website and there was a picture of you with like Jenga.
00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:54.319
And I was like, oh, so that makes sense.
00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:54.879
Right.
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:55.600
Yeah.
00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:56.160
Yeah.
00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:03.680
We try to do things that aren't just like, hi, let's stare at a stranger across a couch for 45 minutes and let me stare you down and like ask questions.
00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:12.160
Um, a lot of the time in the kid field, it was like the training is more adult specific, and there weren't a lot of like children-specific training.
00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.439
So then when people would have kids for like intakes or therapy sessions, they would just like try the adult tactics.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.560
And I'm like, no.
00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:20.319
Like, do we have Play-Doh?
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.199
Do we have Jenga?
00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:28.079
You don't have to have the whole thing in primary colors, but like, especially with neurodivergent kids, like you gotta have something they can do with their hands.
00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.279
We can't just like stare and expect them to have eye contact the whole time.
00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.879
Like, that's unreasonable and like not okay and appropriate.
00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:41.199
So it's like, let's do a thing where you don't just have to stare at a stranger and be like, hello, you've come to this new office you've never met before.
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.959
Now tell me about the worst thing that's ever happened in your life that you like never want to talk about.
00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:46.720
That sounds terrible for anyone, right?
00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:47.519
Especially for kids.
00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:48.720
Sounds traumatic.
00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:49.120
Right.
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:49.519
Right?
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.680
Yeah, yeah, just just add that to the list.
00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:52.720
Yeah.
00:06:53.120 --> 00:07:07.360
So I thought that was interesting when you, you know, even like as as moms or parents talking with our children, um, instead of like sitting down and having this lecture, we need to talk about this, have them get their Legos out, get their play-doh out.
00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:15.120
Um I heard someone say advice like if you really want to talk to your teen, like talk to them in the car because it's not like face to face.
00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.839
It's like you're kind of an environment that you're you're shoulder to shoulder, right?
00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:23.839
Well, and like eye contact can be really confrontational in a lot of ways.
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:32.879
So, like, especially in like Western cultures, we're very like socialized to like make it's a sign of respect of like maintaining eye talk and staying connected.
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:44.000
But like for a lot of kids, neurodivergent folks, other folks, it's perceived as a threat or it's perceived as like something that's uncomfortable or as like an expectation that is like too much or too hard.
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.959
So that's why like driving in the car or like riding in the car is great because those like they can focus on other things.
00:07:49.120 --> 00:08:01.839
If they have something to do with their hands, if they're, you know, coloring or drawing or painting or like you're in a pottery class together, then it kind of takes off that pressure or that expectation of like we're having a serious talk, come talk to me right now.
00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:02.079
Right.
00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:06.240
And it's more of like, okay, like it kind of activates their brain in a different way.
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:09.279
It's another thing, like we're socialized of like you need to be paying attention.
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.120
Look at they're paying attention.
00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:17.920
They are sometimes, especially with neurodivergent or ADHD brains, like that multitasking helps with attention and focus.
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:38.960
It helps to happen have a fidget, have a tool, have something instead of like if you're just totally if you're taking it and putting it in a sterile blank room, like then the nervous system is going into overdrive and like things are not paying attention or like penetrating as well, versus if we have some like adaptive, accessible tools that can actually help us with like connection and communication.
00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:40.639
That's wonderful.
00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:45.600
So, what kind of things do you see, especially related to um some of your clients, like ADHD?
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:54.000
What are some of the problems that you've that you've seen that are really common um that just like a little thing made a big difference for them?
00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:55.039
Yeah.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.799
A big thing I see, especially with kids in ADHD, is the social piece.
00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:04.960
So the main thing that the referrals usually come in for is like attention and focus or like school or things.
00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:15.919
But usually, like once we kind of dig underneath that a little bit, um sometimes I describe ADHD or autism of like everyone else got the handbook, but we didn't.
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.159
So it's like everyone else has all the answers and the rules, and then it's like, how do I make friends?
00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:21.360
How do I maintain friends?
00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.399
Like I thought we were friends, but like I didn't get invited to the birthday party.
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:33.200
Like I thought we were friends, but like they're making me do things and like they're asking me to do stuff and I don't know if I'm okay with it, but I don't want to lose them as my friend because they're my only friend.
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:34.399
So I guess I'm gonna do it.
00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:44.080
It's all of those pieces, or that like I keep making friends and they keep going away or they keep leaving me and like these relationships keep breaking and I don't understand why.
00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:47.039
So clearly I'm broken, or like there's something wrong with me.
00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:58.960
So it's kind of getting into that, that like the social piece of you know, caving away from the internalization of like I'm broken, I'm weird, I'm bad, and more of like I connect differently and that's okay.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:07.919
And like finding the people that connect similarly to me or that are supportive in the ways that I connect and not like aversive or awful.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:15.360
So that like if we need to do a hyperfixation, if all we want to do is talk about with trains, then finding people that are cool with us talking about trains.
00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:24.159
If all we want to do is like talk about Roblox games endlessly, like finding that crew that wants to do that with us instead of like that's weird, that's monkey, I don't know.
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.279
And then being able to like communicate boundaries around that.
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:34.399
That shows up with teens a lot of like, especially with texting communications, ADHD brains like process that differently.
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:42.240
So it's like if you're not texting me back, it means that you hate me and that I'm awful, and I'm terrible, and you never want to like none of that is happening, but like that's what the narrative is.
00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:43.440
That's what's going on in your head.
00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.799
Yeah, I think even as adults, we we can feel that too.
00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:47.279
Right.
00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:55.279
And we like make up this whole narrative that like is in fantasy land, but it's like I'm terrible and awful, and they just don't, and it's like, did anyone say that to us?
00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:05.919
And it's like working with them on communicating, like setting boundaries of what is helpful for us, of like, I struggle with communicating this way, but I can communicate this.
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.519
This is the best way for me to communicate in relationships.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.279
Like, is that going to are we going to be able to work with that moving forward?
00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.480
Like, I'm not going to be able to text you back 100% consistently.
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.200
That doesn't mean I like ignore you or hate you.
00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.440
I just like don't have access to my phone all the time.
00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:23.600
That is what I have, I bring to the table.
00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:25.279
Can we work with that?
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.279
Or like, is that going to be a deal breaker?
00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:33.039
And then, like, especially with teens getting over the hump of like, if I set a boundary, they're gonna run away.
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.639
They're gonna leave me, they're gonna abandon me.
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:40.240
And it's like, no, like if we set a boundary, we're like connecting and honoring ourselves and showing respect for ourselves.
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.799
And most of the time, people are going to honor and respect that.
00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.720
And if they don't, they're not great like supports to have in our lives anyway.
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:47.279
Right.
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.039
And that's something that you're helping people understand, you know, as teens and kids.
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:57.440
And I know as adults, like we become people pleasers because we don't want to offend anybody.
00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:01.279
And we we know that that past relationships are trauma.
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.840
You know, you work with a lot of people with trauma as well.
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.360
I find that fascinating.
00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.720
Um, and I was reading on your website about um you do EMDR.
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:09.519
Is that right?
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:10.000
EMDR.
00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:11.440
I always get those letters mixed up.
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:13.279
We love acronyms in therapy.
00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.879
It's like the military of like, why ABB, B, B, T, D, all things.
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.600
Yes, C B T R B Yeah.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:24.320
So my my cousin has has done this and gone through it, and he's like, Jess, it's amazing.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.080
Like it really, it's fascinating.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:33.759
And and I've done a little bit, I know there's some like YouTube videos or something where like you watch like a ball go back and forth.
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.320
Um, and I'm like, this is so calming.
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.159
Just watch this and like resetting.
00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.320
But I don't understand, you know, how that works.
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:46.080
Is that something for an ADHD brain that that you've seen like really works and reconnects?
00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:47.279
I think so.
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:47.679
Yeah.
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.320
So EMDR, eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing.
00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.559
It was developed by Francine Shapiro, and how she did her little story of how she developed it is just so fascinating to me.
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:09.360
She was like in her education of um social work and like psychology and was like sitting on a park bench and was looking off into the trees, and she started moving her eyes back and forth.
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:14.879
And as she was moving her eyes back and forth, what she was anxious about, like the intensity started to decrease.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.279
So she was like, huh?
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:20.879
And then she kind of developed the protocol around the EMDR.
00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:25.519
It's focused on that eye movement, but there's some adaptive things we can do with it as well.
00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:34.320
So a lot of times when I have ADHD clients or neurodivergent clients, um, sometimes the eye movement can be challenging for some folks.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.240
Some folks love it and really respond.
00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:46.320
The eye movement is kind of like the golden standard of the protocol, but I do some adaptive things of like it's the bilateral stimulation, is what is kind of encoding things differently in the brain.
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:48.960
Okay, so explain that the bilateral stimulation.
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:49.200
Yeah.
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:58.000
So bilateral stimulation is basically just like either sides of our body and activating across the meridians or across our midline and doing like right, left, right, left.
00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:21.679
Um, and so the theory behind it is it's part of the somatic experience, which is basically like more body focused treatments and techniques, um, that it's kind of like activating our body in a way that it's getting past all of the like um abstract things and abstract thoughts and like really getting into kind of like a deeper layer because we're activating kind of our body awareness around it.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:34.320
So, what can be really helpful when the bilateral stimulation is kind of activating and you're kind of whether it's the eye moving back and forth, the tapping, um, where you can like tap on your shoulders or tap on your either sides of your knees.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:42.399
For some kids, sometimes I take like a makeup brush and like tap either side on the back of their palms because you know, peak textures and things, some things are hard.
00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.200
Kids too can do like marching or drumming, it's a whole thing.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:50.799
Um, but what it does is it kind of like as we're tapping, like our body kind of relaxes into things.
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.320
And then sometimes like different cognitions or things will pop up.
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.960
So sometimes it's like I'm bad, I'm not okay.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.200
This happened, I'm not safe, things are not happy, like things are not great.
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.279
And with EMDR, you just like notice that and like keep tapping.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.360
So just notice it and move forward.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.840
Um, and as you do that, like kind of it kind of unpeels the layers around those thoughts.
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:26.399
Then it kind of the reprocessing piece is then we look at kind of um like alternate cognitions of like I am safe, I am okay, I did my best.
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:33.039
So it's not affirmations of like I am the most amazing, I am incredible, I do everything wonderful all the time.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:42.480
Safety is kind of a difficult one because, like, especially folks that have like car accidents or living things, like we can't guarantee every time you get in a car, we can't say that we're safe.
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.159
Like, we just it's totally out of our control.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:50.080
But it's like, I do my best, I try, I do what I can, I go forward with this.
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:58.799
So it's kind of doing more adaptive um thought processes instead of the maladaptive ones that are like, I'm terrible and awful and everything is bad always.
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:08.399
Um, and what is really like powerful about it is like when it clicks, there can be this big like emotional release and a lot of like intensity release.
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:15.919
So um France Angel Firo developed it more for like trauma treatment and kind of like single incident trauma of one thing.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:27.279
It can be really helpful with like um more complex trauma of like things happening and kind of releasing all of like the shame and intensity around things that people sometimes carry for decades.
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:33.919
It also can be helpful for like anxiety and ADHD in terms of the like the self-internalizations.
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.440
So like I'm broken, I'm bad, I'm wrong, and kind of like rewiring those in a different way.
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:47.679
So it's not like a single thing that happened of like, okay, this incident, but more of like these are the things I feel about this and I feel about myself.
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:48.159
Yeah.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.879
And I know there's a lot of things that that build up over time.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:57.600
There's, you know, the big T, big trauma things, but there's also like these little trauma things that add up here, like you mentioned, like over time.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.639
Um, and it's interesting because um, I think there's a book out, like the body keeps the score.
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:05.119
You know, like your body holds on to that.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:10.400
And and I feel like with ADHD, we're really good at separating our mind from our body.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:11.759
Like they're two separate things.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:12.079
Right.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.920
That's what I say with kids all the time.
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:29.920
But I think for ADHD or like neurodivergent brains, sometimes it can be a really helpful reframe of like, like you mentioned, like sometimes our bodies and our minds are separated, and like this because how the brain is processing information, like it makes more sense for the brain to like categorize things that way.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:43.200
Um, but sometimes instead of like overwhelm the stress, it's like more focusing on the body regulation pieces and the like reinforcing of like in the next 30 to second 60 seconds, I am okay.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.599
Like in the next 60 seconds, I am safe.
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:53.039
So sometimes, especially because we're stuck on all these like abstract thoughts and big things and fantasies and oh no, no, no, no, no, they hate me and da-da-da.
00:17:53.279 --> 00:18:12.880
That then it's like, you know, the grounding tools of like the 54321 or 321 of like three things I can see, two things I can hear, one thing I can smell, or whatever it might be, of like focusing in our physical environment and what's around us and getting us back into our body that like our body can be regulated and be okay.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.079
Um, there's also this thing called community resiliency model.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.359
The acronym is CRIM, CRM, uh, because we love acronyms.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.480
Of course it has an acronym.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:20.960
Of course.
00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:21.200
Yeah.
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:27.519
They have this thing um called like flipping your lid if your lid is flipped with the like hand model.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:38.319
But part of the focus of it talks about like window of tolerance and like staying within our regulation zone and that you can get bumped out of your window of tolerance of like overstimulated, understimulated.
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:47.200
Um, so over is like stress, things happening, feeling overwhelmed, understimulated is like kind of we're sick, we're feeling down, we're just feeling slow, like disconnected.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.960
Um, but the goal is like not to stay within the window of tolerance at all times.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:19:01.279
It's just like noticing and having awareness of like when we're bumped out of it and what helps us get us like kind of back into that regulation zone or back into that like optimal functioning zone.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.759
So it's not like I have to be in 100%, but just like I am overwhelmed, this is too much.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.119
I need like a 30-second dance party.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.839
I need something here to like regulate me.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:17.839
And then like I might be bumped out again in five minutes, but like what is going to be helpful to me in this current moment?
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:18.319
Yeah.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.160
And I like that it's a concrete something instead of just I feel overwhelmed.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:22.960
I don't know what to do.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.759
It's like, okay, let's call this the window of tolerance.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:31.440
Here's when to notice I'm over here's here are the things that make me feel overstimulated.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:37.119
Here are the things that I don't have enough stimulation about, and then I just get bored or tired or whatever.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.480
I love that visual is really helpful.
00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:41.440
That's amazing.
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:46.000
So, Emily, tell me um, you know, how do people find you?
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.200
Where, you know, how who do you who do you love working with?
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.200
And where can people find you?
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.079
Yeah.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.799
I love working with neurodivergent folks.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:56.079
I love working with ADHD.
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.960
I'm neurodivergent, so it just is like we speak similar languages.
00:19:59.119 --> 00:19:59.839
It's like, oh right.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.559
And then like I explain things sometimes and they're like, what?
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.200
How did you know?
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:04.400
Because I've lived it.
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:07.039
Um so love working with neurodivergent folks.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.160
And neurodivergent folks also like have an amazing creativity.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:16.000
So like a lot of times people focus as on the challenges of like the world is built for neurotypicals.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:20.160
It's not designed for neurodivergents in mind, like it's the minority of the population.
00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:28.480
Um, so like it's on the like we put the responsibility on the individual to like find systems and tools that help them manage.
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:34.079
But like it's just unfair that like the world is not designed to support or manage the needs in the same way.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:45.440
So like we focus on the challenges a lot, but then like the way they do problem solving or the way like that neurodivergence processes things, like is just so fascinating and amazing and creative.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:53.200
And like how we'll find like different solutions to things is like things that wouldn't show up anyway, but it's like great.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:54.960
If that works for you, great, wonderful.
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.240
Okay, never thought of that.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:56.960
Wonderful.
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.519
Um, so yeah, love working with neurodivergence.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.359
The best way to find me is website larkspurtherapy.com.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.680
It's L-A-R-K-S-P-U-R-Therapy.com.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:09.119
It's a flower, it's a whole thing.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.319
Well, I was gonna wonder, yeah.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.480
Lark, so lark spur is a flower.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.000
Yeah, it's named I have so many of them around.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:22.000
It's uh named because the like petal of the flower looks like the foot of the lark bird.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:22.559
Okay.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:23.920
So it's a lark spur.
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.319
Do you have that in your your uh logo?
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:27.519
Too as well.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:28.079
Okay, yeah.
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:29.279
It all makes sense now.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:29.680
Yeah.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.799
Flowers, we bloom, we create, it's the whole thing.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:33.519
And we're growing.
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:34.880
We love metaphors.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.440
Right.
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:36.319
Metapores.
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:37.519
Yeah, awesome.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:42.960
We'll link to all of that, of course, in the show notes so people can connect with you and find you.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:45.920
Um yeah, thank you so much for joining us.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.640
I appreciate you.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.400
Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:49.680
Don't miss a show.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.279
Sign up for our newsletter at the adhdmom.com.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:58.319
Thanks so much for spending time with us today on quick wins for ADHD moms.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.119
Have a beautiful week, and I'll see you next time.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:02.240
Keep design.
00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:03.200
Hey, I'm your host, Jessica Lynn Lewis.
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.320
Today, I want to introduce you to Emily Cox.
00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.640
Let's do a thing where you don't just have to stare at a stranger and be like, hello, you've come to this new office that you've never met before.
00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.399
Now tell me about the worst thing that's ever happened in your life that you like never want to talk about.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:18.160
That sounds terrible for anyone, right?
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:23.440
Sometimes I describe ADHD or autism as like, everyone else got the handbook, but we didn't.
00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:29.920
If your brain often feels too much, here's a therapist's guide to regulation, connection, and ADHD.
00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:30.719
Teens are great.
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:31.839
They like put up a front.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.159
I love like a 50, 14-year-old girl.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:40.799
But like once you get through that and play Jenga, then they just want to be like accepted and loved like anybody else.
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.320
This is Quick Wins for ADHD moms.
00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.320
We're so excited to have Emily Cox on the show today.
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.159
Thank you so much, Emily, for joining us.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.000
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:52.399
Yeah.
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.039
So we always start our show with a quick win.
00:00:55.280 --> 00:01:03.439
Um, what has worked, you know, a tip or trick or something that has really worked with some of the kids or even parents that you've worked with.
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:04.640
Yeah, totally.
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:12.079
So one thing that I usually recommend is like physically changing our environment when possible, when overstimulated.
00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:20.400
Sometimes when we're kind of overwhelmed, whether we're kid, teen, adult, and we're just like, ah, this is too much information at once.
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.159
Like physically going outside or even going to a different room.
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:34.719
This works a lot too with people who have work from home or do a lot of like computer-based things, whether it's kids with homework or adults with work, that like we feel swamped by emails.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:36.799
Everything's so like abstract, right?
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.719
It's just like in our heads what are keeping track of.
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:39.439
Gotta get this done.
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.040
Sometimes get this done, gotta get this back.
00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.200
Our overwhelm is so abstract.
00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.200
And it just is like this giant mountain that we're like, oh, I can't ever get to the top of that.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:02:01.519
Sometimes just like getting up and going to a different room or like going, and this is not like you don't have to go stare at the sun for however, like it's literally 30 seconds, or just like, I'm going to get a cup of water from the kitchen, or I'm going to like do this thing here.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:10.080
It like physically resets our brain in a way because we're in a different like physical environment that then we're like looking at different things in the room.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:19.120
It can be really helpful, especially for neurodivergent brains, because they get so clogged on to the like abstract things that then it's like, oh wait, here's a concrete setting.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.400
Oh wait, here's like something in front of me that I can focus on.
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:27.039
Like, is this email really gonna come out of my computer and like bite me and attack me?
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:27.680
Maybe not.
00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:28.960
That's what it feels like in the moment.
00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:30.240
It does feel like that a lot.
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.159
Yeah, I've got like 10 of them right now that I'm like, they're eating me right now.
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:34.960
Exactly.
00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.240
It's like, is my boss really going to fire me over this one email?
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.639
Or like, am I okay in the next 30 seconds?
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.680
In the next 60 seconds, is the tiger gonna eat me?
00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:44.639
Probably not.
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.120
But our brain doesn't know that when we're sitting staring at it.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.919
So then it's just like, get up, move, get up, be, and then return back.
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.840
That it's like, okay, I can do this now.
00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.400
All right, I can manage this, I can handle this.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:57.919
Yeah, I know I love that.
00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:58.960
That's such a great tip.
00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:00.879
And it's so easy and it's free.
00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:01.840
Right.
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:03.280
It's not complicated.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.520
Try to be as straightforward as possible.
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:06.879
Yeah, I love it.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:08.879
So, Emily, tell us what you do.
00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:18.639
I know you work with a lot of divergent children and teens and families, but I'd love to hear a little bit of your history, like why you decided to go into this and and what you do.
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:23.680
Yeah, I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor in private practice.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:29.520
Um, and I work mainly with kids and teens and some young adults and like adults in transition as well.
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:33.759
Um, I kind of like tripped and fell into the kid teen space.
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.800
Um, when I was in my educational journey, I was like, children are gross, they're sticky, I don't want to be around them.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:40.479
Ew, don't put me in a school.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:41.439
I'm gonna be miserable.
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.599
I only want to do college kids and adults.
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.280
Like, don't put me around children.
00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:50.479
Um, and then I had an internship opportunity where it was like, you take what you get and you don't get upset.
00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:50.800
Right.
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:57.039
And like whatever walks in the door, like I had a wonderful supervisor who was like, this is the time to learn, this is the time to grow.
00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.479
Like, don't say no to anything.
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:02.159
You have support, you have people here, you're not gonna get out of your depth.
00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:04.240
Like, if you need help, you can access it.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.240
But like, this is the time to learn and grow.
00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:10.479
And like I really took to that advice and it really served me in a powerful way.
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:17.439
Um, so through that, I saw everywhere from like three years old to 83 years old and was an incredible experience.
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:22.319
And then I found out that like kids are fun, uh, especially therapy with kids are fun.
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.480
Um, and they go home at the end of the day.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.519
I think wonderful and go back to your parents.
00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:28.319
Yeah, exactly.
00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.000
I don't have them for eight hours at school.
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.480
I have them for like 45 to 55 minutes.
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:33.360
It's great.
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:41.920
Um, but like I love working with kids and teens just because they're so like adult, sometimes we have plaque.
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.240
We have like defense mechanisms, we have things built up because we've been through a lot.
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.199
We've had experiences, we've been hurt, we've been harmed.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:53.519
Um, things have happened where like safety is not guaranteed a lot of the times.
00:04:53.759 --> 00:05:00.480
So sometimes we have to like break through that plaque to get to the like vulnerability in the soft white underbelly.
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.279
Whereas kids, whatever's going on is directly in the room.
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:04.240
You don't have to dig for it.
00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.839
It's fair, which is like, you know, in some ways can be challenging.
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:16.800
I find it really like refreshing and beautiful in a way of like, especially more of the littles, like five and under, like they're gonna what's happening with them is very apparent.
00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.279
Like they're gonna tell you and it's gonna be very present.
00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:27.680
And then they're also like so open to trying things and changing and like having that neuroplasticity, but also like expressing their needs.
00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:29.839
If they don't want to do something, they're gonna tell you.
00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.040
If they are liking something or enjoying something, they're gonna tell you.
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.959
So it's not this like digging and having to go through the subtext, like it's there.
00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:37.839
Even with teens.
00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:38.639
Teens are great.
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:39.680
They like put up a front.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:41.920
I love like a pissy 14-year-old girl.
00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:48.079
But like once you get through that and play Jenga, then they just want to be like accepted and loved like anybody else.
00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:49.759
I love how you said play Jenga.
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:52.079
I was on your website and there was a picture of you with like Jenga.
00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:54.319
And I was like, oh, so that makes sense.
00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:54.879
Right.
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:55.600
Yeah.
00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:56.160
Yeah.
00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:03.680
We try to do things that aren't just like, hi, let's stare at a stranger across a couch for 45 minutes and let me stare you down and like ask questions.
00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:12.160
Um, a lot of the time in the kid field, it was like the training is more adult specific, and there weren't a lot of like children-specific training.
00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.439
So then when people would have kids for like intakes or therapy sessions, they would just like try the adult tactics.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.560
And I'm like, no.
00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:20.319
Like, do we have Play-Doh?
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.199
Do we have Jenga?
00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:28.079
You don't have to have the whole thing in primary colors, but like, especially with neurodivergent kids, like you gotta have something they can do with their hands.
00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.279
We can't just like stare and expect them to have eye contact the whole time.
00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.879
Like, that's unreasonable and like not okay and appropriate.
00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:41.199
So it's like, let's do a thing where you don't just have to stare at a stranger and be like, hello, you've come to this new office you've never met before.
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.959
Now tell me about the worst thing that's ever happened in your life that you like never want to talk about.
00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:46.720
That sounds terrible for anyone, right?
00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:47.519
Especially for kids.
00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:48.720
Sounds traumatic.
00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:49.120
Right.
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:49.519
Right?
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.680
Yeah, yeah, just just add that to the list.
00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:52.720
Yeah.
00:06:53.120 --> 00:07:07.360
So I thought that was interesting when you, you know, even like as as moms or parents talking with our children, um, instead of like sitting down and having this lecture, we need to talk about this, have them get their Legos out, get their play-doh out.
00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:15.120
Um I heard someone say advice like if you really want to talk to your teen, like talk to them in the car because it's not like face to face.
00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.839
It's like you're kind of an environment that you're you're shoulder to shoulder, right?
00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:23.839
Well, and like eye contact can be really confrontational in a lot of ways.
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:32.879
So, like, especially in like Western cultures, we're very like socialized to like make it's a sign of respect of like maintaining eye talk and staying connected.
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:44.000
But like for a lot of kids, neurodivergent folks, other folks, it's perceived as a threat or it's perceived as like something that's uncomfortable or as like an expectation that is like too much or too hard.
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.959
So that's why like driving in the car or like riding in the car is great because those like they can focus on other things.
00:07:49.120 --> 00:08:01.839
If they have something to do with their hands, if they're, you know, coloring or drawing or painting or like you're in a pottery class together, then it kind of takes off that pressure or that expectation of like we're having a serious talk, come talk to me right now.
00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:02.079
Right.
00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:06.240
And it's more of like, okay, like it kind of activates their brain in a different way.
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:09.279
It's another thing, like we're socialized of like you need to be paying attention.
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.120
Look at they're paying attention.
00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:17.920
They are sometimes, especially with neurodivergent or ADHD brains, like that multitasking helps with attention and focus.
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:38.960
It helps to happen have a fidget, have a tool, have something instead of like if you're just totally if you're taking it and putting it in a sterile blank room, like then the nervous system is going into overdrive and like things are not paying attention or like penetrating as well, versus if we have some like adaptive, accessible tools that can actually help us with like connection and communication.
00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:40.639
That's wonderful.
00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:45.600
So, what kind of things do you see, especially related to um some of your clients, like ADHD?
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:54.000
What are some of the problems that you've that you've seen that are really common um that just like a little thing made a big difference for them?
00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:55.039
Yeah.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.799
A big thing I see, especially with kids in ADHD, is the social piece.
00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:04.960
So the main thing that the referrals usually come in for is like attention and focus or like school or things.
00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:15.919
But usually, like once we kind of dig underneath that a little bit, um sometimes I describe ADHD or autism of like everyone else got the handbook, but we didn't.
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.159
So it's like everyone else has all the answers and the rules, and then it's like, how do I make friends?
00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:21.360
How do I maintain friends?
00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.399
Like I thought we were friends, but like I didn't get invited to the birthday party.
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:33.200
Like I thought we were friends, but like they're making me do things and like they're asking me to do stuff and I don't know if I'm okay with it, but I don't want to lose them as my friend because they're my only friend.
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:34.399
So I guess I'm gonna do it.
00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:44.080
It's all of those pieces, or that like I keep making friends and they keep going away or they keep leaving me and like these relationships keep breaking and I don't understand why.
00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:47.039
So clearly I'm broken, or like there's something wrong with me.
00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:58.960
So it's kind of getting into that, that like the social piece of you know, caving away from the internalization of like I'm broken, I'm weird, I'm bad, and more of like I connect differently and that's okay.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:07.919
And like finding the people that connect similarly to me or that are supportive in the ways that I connect and not like aversive or awful.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:15.360
So that like if we need to do a hyperfixation, if all we want to do is talk about with trains, then finding people that are cool with us talking about trains.
00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:24.159
If all we want to do is like talk about Roblox games endlessly, like finding that crew that wants to do that with us instead of like that's weird, that's monkey, I don't know.
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.279
And then being able to like communicate boundaries around that.
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:34.399
That shows up with teens a lot of like, especially with texting communications, ADHD brains like process that differently.
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:42.240
So it's like if you're not texting me back, it means that you hate me and that I'm awful, and I'm terrible, and you never want to like none of that is happening, but like that's what the narrative is.
00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:43.440
That's what's going on in your head.
00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.799
Yeah, I think even as adults, we we can feel that too.
00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:47.279
Right.
00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:55.279
And we like make up this whole narrative that like is in fantasy land, but it's like I'm terrible and awful, and they just don't, and it's like, did anyone say that to us?
00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:05.919
And it's like working with them on communicating, like setting boundaries of what is helpful for us, of like, I struggle with communicating this way, but I can communicate this.
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.519
This is the best way for me to communicate in relationships.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.279
Like, is that going to are we going to be able to work with that moving forward?
00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.480
Like, I'm not going to be able to text you back 100% consistently.
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.200
That doesn't mean I like ignore you or hate you.
00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.440
I just like don't have access to my phone all the time.
00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:23.600
That is what I have, I bring to the table.
00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:25.279
Can we work with that?
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.279
Or like, is that going to be a deal breaker?
00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:33.039
And then, like, especially with teens getting over the hump of like, if I set a boundary, they're gonna run away.
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.639
They're gonna leave me, they're gonna abandon me.
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:40.240
And it's like, no, like if we set a boundary, we're like connecting and honoring ourselves and showing respect for ourselves.
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.799
And most of the time, people are going to honor and respect that.
00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.720
And if they don't, they're not great like supports to have in our lives anyway.
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:47.279
Right.
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.039
And that's something that you're helping people understand, you know, as teens and kids.
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:57.440
And I know as adults, like we become people pleasers because we don't want to offend anybody.
00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:01.279
And we we know that that past relationships are trauma.
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.840
You know, you work with a lot of people with trauma as well.
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.360
I find that fascinating.
00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.720
Um, and I was reading on your website about um you do EMDR.
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:09.519
Is that right?
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:10.000
EMDR.
00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:11.440
I always get those letters mixed up.
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:13.279
We love acronyms in therapy.
00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.879
It's like the military of like, why ABB, B, B, T, D, all things.
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.600
Yes, C B T R B Yeah.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:24.320
So my my cousin has has done this and gone through it, and he's like, Jess, it's amazing.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.080
Like it really, it's fascinating.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:33.759
And and I've done a little bit, I know there's some like YouTube videos or something where like you watch like a ball go back and forth.
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.320
Um, and I'm like, this is so calming.
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.159
Just watch this and like resetting.
00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.320
But I don't understand, you know, how that works.
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:46.080
Is that something for an ADHD brain that that you've seen like really works and reconnects?
00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:47.279
I think so.
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:47.679
Yeah.
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.320
So EMDR, eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing.
00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.559
It was developed by Francine Shapiro, and how she did her little story of how she developed it is just so fascinating to me.
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:09.360
She was like in her education of um social work and like psychology and was like sitting on a park bench and was looking off into the trees, and she started moving her eyes back and forth.
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:14.879
And as she was moving her eyes back and forth, what she was anxious about, like the intensity started to decrease.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.279
So she was like, huh?
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:20.879
And then she kind of developed the protocol around the EMDR.
00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:25.519
It's focused on that eye movement, but there's some adaptive things we can do with it as well.
00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:34.320
So a lot of times when I have ADHD clients or neurodivergent clients, um, sometimes the eye movement can be challenging for some folks.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.240
Some folks love it and really respond.
00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:46.320
The eye movement is kind of like the golden standard of the protocol, but I do some adaptive things of like it's the bilateral stimulation, is what is kind of encoding things differently in the brain.
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:48.960
Okay, so explain that the bilateral stimulation.
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:49.200
Yeah.
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:58.000
So bilateral stimulation is basically just like either sides of our body and activating across the meridians or across our midline and doing like right, left, right, left.
00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:21.679
Um, and so the theory behind it is it's part of the somatic experience, which is basically like more body focused treatments and techniques, um, that it's kind of like activating our body in a way that it's getting past all of the like um abstract things and abstract thoughts and like really getting into kind of like a deeper layer because we're activating kind of our body awareness around it.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:34.320
So, what can be really helpful when the bilateral stimulation is kind of activating and you're kind of whether it's the eye moving back and forth, the tapping, um, where you can like tap on your shoulders or tap on your either sides of your knees.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:42.399
For some kids, sometimes I take like a makeup brush and like tap either side on the back of their palms because you know, peak textures and things, some things are hard.
00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.200
Kids too can do like marching or drumming, it's a whole thing.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:50.799
Um, but what it does is it kind of like as we're tapping, like our body kind of relaxes into things.
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.320
And then sometimes like different cognitions or things will pop up.
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.960
So sometimes it's like I'm bad, I'm not okay.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.200
This happened, I'm not safe, things are not happy, like things are not great.
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.279
And with EMDR, you just like notice that and like keep tapping.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.360
So just notice it and move forward.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.840
Um, and as you do that, like kind of it kind of unpeels the layers around those thoughts.
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:26.399
Then it kind of the reprocessing piece is then we look at kind of um like alternate cognitions of like I am safe, I am okay, I did my best.
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:33.039
So it's not affirmations of like I am the most amazing, I am incredible, I do everything wonderful all the time.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:42.480
Safety is kind of a difficult one because, like, especially folks that have like car accidents or living things, like we can't guarantee every time you get in a car, we can't say that we're safe.
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.159
Like, we just it's totally out of our control.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:50.080
But it's like, I do my best, I try, I do what I can, I go forward with this.
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:58.799
So it's kind of doing more adaptive um thought processes instead of the maladaptive ones that are like, I'm terrible and awful and everything is bad always.
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:08.399
Um, and what is really like powerful about it is like when it clicks, there can be this big like emotional release and a lot of like intensity release.
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:15.919
So um France Angel Firo developed it more for like trauma treatment and kind of like single incident trauma of one thing.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:27.279
It can be really helpful with like um more complex trauma of like things happening and kind of releasing all of like the shame and intensity around things that people sometimes carry for decades.
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:33.919
It also can be helpful for like anxiety and ADHD in terms of the like the self-internalizations.
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.440
So like I'm broken, I'm bad, I'm wrong, and kind of like rewiring those in a different way.
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:47.679
So it's not like a single thing that happened of like, okay, this incident, but more of like these are the things I feel about this and I feel about myself.
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:48.159
Yeah.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.879
And I know there's a lot of things that that build up over time.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:57.600
There's, you know, the big T, big trauma things, but there's also like these little trauma things that add up here, like you mentioned, like over time.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.639
Um, and it's interesting because um, I think there's a book out, like the body keeps the score.
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:05.119
You know, like your body holds on to that.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:10.400
And and I feel like with ADHD, we're really good at separating our mind from our body.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:11.759
Like they're two separate things.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:12.079
Right.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.920
That's what I say with kids all the time.
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:29.920
But I think for ADHD or like neurodivergent brains, sometimes it can be a really helpful reframe of like, like you mentioned, like sometimes our bodies and our minds are separated, and like this because how the brain is processing information, like it makes more sense for the brain to like categorize things that way.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:43.200
Um, but sometimes instead of like overwhelm the stress, it's like more focusing on the body regulation pieces and the like reinforcing of like in the next 30 to second 60 seconds, I am okay.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.599
Like in the next 60 seconds, I am safe.
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:53.039
So sometimes, especially because we're stuck on all these like abstract thoughts and big things and fantasies and oh no, no, no, no, no, they hate me and da-da-da.
00:17:53.279 --> 00:18:12.880
That then it's like, you know, the grounding tools of like the 54321 or 321 of like three things I can see, two things I can hear, one thing I can smell, or whatever it might be, of like focusing in our physical environment and what's around us and getting us back into our body that like our body can be regulated and be okay.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.079
Um, there's also this thing called community resiliency model.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.359
The acronym is CRIM, CRM, uh, because we love acronyms.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.480
Of course it has an acronym.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:20.960
Of course.
00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:21.200
Yeah.
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:27.519
They have this thing um called like flipping your lid if your lid is flipped with the like hand model.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:38.319
But part of the focus of it talks about like window of tolerance and like staying within our regulation zone and that you can get bumped out of your window of tolerance of like overstimulated, understimulated.
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:47.200
Um, so over is like stress, things happening, feeling overwhelmed, understimulated is like kind of we're sick, we're feeling down, we're just feeling slow, like disconnected.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.960
Um, but the goal is like not to stay within the window of tolerance at all times.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:19:01.279
It's just like noticing and having awareness of like when we're bumped out of it and what helps us get us like kind of back into that regulation zone or back into that like optimal functioning zone.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.759
So it's not like I have to be in 100%, but just like I am overwhelmed, this is too much.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.119
I need like a 30-second dance party.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.839
I need something here to like regulate me.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:17.839
And then like I might be bumped out again in five minutes, but like what is going to be helpful to me in this current moment?
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:18.319
Yeah.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.160
And I like that it's a concrete something instead of just I feel overwhelmed.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:22.960
I don't know what to do.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.759
It's like, okay, let's call this the window of tolerance.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:31.440
Here's when to notice I'm over here's here are the things that make me feel overstimulated.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:37.119
Here are the things that I don't have enough stimulation about, and then I just get bored or tired or whatever.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.480
I love that visual is really helpful.
00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:41.440
That's amazing.
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:46.000
So, Emily, tell me um, you know, how do people find you?
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.200
Where, you know, how who do you who do you love working with?
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.200
And where can people find you?
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.079
Yeah.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.799
I love working with neurodivergent folks.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:56.079
I love working with ADHD.
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.960
I'm neurodivergent, so it just is like we speak similar languages.
00:19:59.119 --> 00:19:59.839
It's like, oh right.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.559
And then like I explain things sometimes and they're like, what?
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.200
How did you know?
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:04.400
Because I've lived it.
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:07.039
Um so love working with neurodivergent folks.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.160
And neurodivergent folks also like have an amazing creativity.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:16.000
So like a lot of times people focus as on the challenges of like the world is built for neurotypicals.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:20.160
It's not designed for neurodivergents in mind, like it's the minority of the population.
00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:28.480
Um, so like it's on the like we put the responsibility on the individual to like find systems and tools that help them manage.
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:34.079
But like it's just unfair that like the world is not designed to support or manage the needs in the same way.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:45.440
So like we focus on the challenges a lot, but then like the way they do problem solving or the way like that neurodivergence processes things, like is just so fascinating and amazing and creative.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:53.200
And like how we'll find like different solutions to things is like things that wouldn't show up anyway, but it's like great.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:54.960
If that works for you, great, wonderful.
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.240
Okay, never thought of that.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:56.960
Wonderful.
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.519
Um, so yeah, love working with neurodivergence.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.359
The best way to find me is website larkspurtherapy.com.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.680
It's L-A-R-K-S-P-U-R-Therapy.com.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:09.119
It's a flower, it's a whole thing.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.319
Well, I was gonna wonder, yeah.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.480
Lark, so lark spur is a flower.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.000
Yeah, it's named I have so many of them around.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:22.000
It's uh named because the like petal of the flower looks like the foot of the lark bird.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:22.559
Okay.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:23.920
So it's a lark spur.
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.319
Do you have that in your your uh logo?
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:27.519
Too as well.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:28.079
Okay, yeah.
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:29.279
It all makes sense now.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:29.680
Yeah.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.799
Flowers, we bloom, we create, it's the whole thing.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:33.519
And we're growing.
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:34.880
We love metaphors.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.440
Right.
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:36.319
Metapores.
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:37.519
Yeah, awesome.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:42.960
We'll link to all of that, of course, in the show notes so people can connect with you and find you.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:45.920
Um yeah, thank you so much for joining us.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.640
I appreciate you.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.400
Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:49.680
Don't miss a show.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.279
Sign up for our newsletter at the adhdmom.com.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:58.319
Thanks so much for spending time with us today on quick wins for ADHD moms.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.119
Have a beautiful week, and I'll see you next time.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:02.240
Keep design.
