Why Friends Gossip During Your Divorce And How to Heal

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Kind: captions
Language: en
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This episode has been sitting in the
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roster for a while, waiting for me to
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make space for it and make space within
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myself to make it. This definitely hits
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home.
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There is a specific kind of pain that
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happens when you're going through any of
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the hardest things in your life. A
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breakup, a divorce, discovering
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infidelity,
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being in an accident, losing a loved
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one.
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and the person that you thought was
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holding you actually wasn't. They were
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sharing your story. Your most vulnerable
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moment became someone else's
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entertainment.
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Today, we're talking about something I
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don't hear discussed nearly enough. Why
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women gossip about each other,
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especially during crisis.
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We're going to talk about what it
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reveals, what it costs, and how we can
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do better. Both as a person who's been
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betrayed and as someone who might have
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participated in this pattern without
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fully realizing the harm in the past.
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I'm pulling on some threads today that
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might be really uncomfortable,
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but they're necessary and they're
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important
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because we live in a world where we're
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very, very disconnected now.
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And now more than ever, we want to feel
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like the people that we are connected
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with are people we can trust. So, let's
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go.
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Welcome to Pulling Threads, where we
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unravel the patterns that keep us stuck
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and explore what it means to live with
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authenticity,
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alignment, and peace. I'm Lesie, your
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host, a therapist, a former attorney, a
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coach, and the founder of the Loom Life
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and Loom Life Therapy. Today's episode
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is very personal for me. It's about a
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pattern I've witnessed in my own life
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and in the lives of nearly every woman
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I've ever worked with who's gone through
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some major major relationship
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transition.
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It's about what happens when the friend
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or friends that you confided in become
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the person who gossips about you and why
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this particular betrayal, especially
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during a relationship crisis, can be
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more damaging than the relationship
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ending itself. We're going to look at
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research. And I'll be honest, I wanted
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to dig in and do this episode and do the
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research for it for my own good.
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Both so that I could improve as a
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friend, as a woman,
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and so I could understand
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why people did the things they've done
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in the past and why I've experienced
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what I've experienced.
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We're going to look at what gossip
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actually does to our nervous system and
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our ability to trust and what we can do
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when we find ourselves on either side of
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this dynamic. But first, we need to
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define what we're actually talking
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about. And I think that this might be
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the most or one of the most important
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parts of the episode because there is a
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difference between gossip and other
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things. So let's get clear on what
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gossip actually is because there is a
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big difference between healthy
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processing with others and harmful
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betrayal of someone close to you.
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Gossip is sharing someone else's
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personal or vulnerable information
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without their permission, particularly
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when that sharing serves your own needs
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rather than theirs. So, let's break that
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down a little bit further.
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Let's talk about what gossip is not.
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Gossip is not getting support for
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yourself when you're struggling with a
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friend's situation. If your friend is
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going through something difficult and
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it's affecting you, you're allowed to
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process that with your therapist, your
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partner, or another trusted person.
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That's completely totally healthy and
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recommended. Gossip is not seeking
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advice about how to help somebody. If
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you say to another friend, Jane is going
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through something really hard, it's a
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really hard breakup, and I'm not sure
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how to support her. What would you do?
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That's not gossip. That's collaborative
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care.
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If you know that Jane wouldn't want you
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to share that information, that's a
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little different. Gossip is also not
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sharing information that's already
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public or that the person has given you
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explicit permission to share. So, let's
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talk about what gossip is. All right.
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Now, gossip is taking someone else's
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private vulnerable story. Let's say the
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affair they just discovered, the divorce
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they're navigating,
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details about the divorce, how they're
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feeling, what their worries are, the
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breakup they're devastated by, and
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sharing those details with others for
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entertainment, for social bonding, or to
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position yourself as in the know. It's
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saying, "Oh my god, did you hear what
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happened to Sarah?
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Let me tell you everything she told me.
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It's the discussing of someone's pain in
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a way that centers your experience of
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knowing about it rather than their
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experience of living through it. Here's
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the test you can ask yourself. Am I
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sharing this to help them
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or am I sharing this to help me? If
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you're sharing to process your own
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feelings, to feel connected to the
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person you're telling,
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to discharge your discomfort or to feel
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important, that's gossip. And here's the
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other critical piece. If you wouldn't
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feel comfortable with the person finding
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out that you shared their story, you
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probably shouldn't be sharing it. Dr.
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Bnee Brown puts it in this way in her
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work on trust. If you're not the person
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who's experiencing the struggle or
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you're not the person who's been asked
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to help with the struggle, you shouldn't
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be talking about the struggle. That's
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the line. So when I talk about gossip in
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this episode, I'm talking about sharing
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of someone else's vulnerable
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information,
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particularly during a crisis like a
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breakup, infidelity, a divorce, without
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their permission, and in a way that
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serves the gossiper more than the person
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being discussed.
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Now that we're clear on what we're
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talking about in this episode, I want to
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explore why it matters so much because
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it truly does.
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I want to start with something that I
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believe deeply. Women need other women.
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This isn't a romanticized idea. It's
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backed by decades of research. A
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landmark UCLA study on stress responses
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found that women have a unique stress
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response called tend and befriend.
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We respond to stress by seeking out
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social connection particularly with
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other women.
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Men have the classic fight or flight
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response. Women we also fight or flight
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but we have this additional pathway. We
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tend and befriend. We reach out. We
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connect. We process through
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relationship.
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This is why when a woman is going
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through a relationship crisis like a
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breakup, infidelity, separation,
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divorce, her first instinct is often to
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call another woman. Not because men
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can't be supportive, but because women
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are neurologically wired to process
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stress through female connection. It's
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been studied over and over again. Dr.
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Shelley Taylor, the psychologist who led
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this research, found that oxytocin, the
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bonding hormone, plays a critical role
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in this. When women are stressed,
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oxytocin is released, which prompts us
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to nurture and affiliate with others,
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especially other women. This literally
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calms our nervous system, and it's why
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we need each other, and it's why we need
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to be able to trust each other. So
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female friendship isn't just nice to
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have during a crisis. It's
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physiologically regulating.
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Which is why the betrayal of that
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friendship, specifically through gossip,
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is so devastating.
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When the person whose role is to help
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regulate your nervous system, instead
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activates it through betrayal, the harm
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is profound.
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You're not just losing a friend. You're
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losing access to a primary coping
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mechanism.
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And the loss in these situations often
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comes at a time when you need that
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mechanism more than ever.
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So, let's talk about why this happens
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and use some research. Why do women
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gossip about each other, especially
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during vulnerable times? I want to be
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clear.
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Understanding why does not excuse it,
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but it does help us recognize the
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pattern and then hopefully we interrupt
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it.
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From an evolutionary perspective, gossip
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served a survival function.
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Anthropologist Robin Dunar found that
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gossip, which he calls social grooming,
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uh, helped early humans build alliances,
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share information about who's
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trustworthy, and navigate complex social
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hierarchies in their system. For women
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specifically, who often had less
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physical power, social intelligence and
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coalition building were critical
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survival skills. Sharing information
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about others created bonds and helped
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women protect themselves and their
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children. The problem is what once
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served as a protective function has
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become and in a lot of cases harmful.
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When you share someone else's vulnerable
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story, not to protect, not to problem
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solve, but to bond with a third party,
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you're using old wiring in a way that
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betrays trust for your friends and the
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people that might matter to you most.
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There's actually a dopamine hit from
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this. Neuroscience shows us something
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really, really important. Gossip
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activates the brain's reward system.
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When you share information that others
00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:05.910
don't have, your brain releases
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dopamine.
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Powerful drug.
00:11:09.839 --> 00:11:12.710
We all want dopamine. It makes you feel
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:16.470
important, connected, valuable. A study
00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:18.389
published in the Journal of
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:20.310
Psychological Science found that people
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experience pleasure when they share
00:11:22.959 --> 00:11:24.949
social information,
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particularly information that makes them
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appear knowledgeable or well-connected.
00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:32.949
So, when your friend gossips about your
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relationship crisis, part of what's
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happening is they're getting a
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neurochemical reward. They feel closer
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to the person they're gossiping with.
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They feel like I have social currency
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and you, the person whose story is being
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shared are the cost of that transaction.
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Discomfort and emotional offloading are
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also issues.
00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.790
Here's another piece. Sometimes people
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gossip because they genuinely cannot
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hold the weight of what you're sharing.
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And I personally have experienced that.
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Your pain is activating something in
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.790
them. Maybe their own unexamined
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relationship struggles.
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Maybe their fear about their own
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.710
marriage. Maybe shame about something
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that they haven't dealt with.
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Instead of saying, "I care about you,
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but I'm not equipped to hold this." They
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stay in the conversation. They listen.
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In the case of divorce, sometimes often,
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maybe daily, but they can't metabolize
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the discomfort. So then they offload it
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by ta talking about you to someone else.
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Dr. Bnee Brown talks about this in her
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work on trust. She references the
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concept of hot gossip. Gossip that comes
00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:58.870
from our own discomfort. We're so
00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:01.750
activated by what someone shares that we
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discharge it by sharing it with others.
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:08.629
It's not malicious in intent, but it's
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:12.230
still extremely harmful in impact. And
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that's why it's important to talk about
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it and to think about how we're sharing
00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:21.110
other people's vulnerable information.
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Then there's this really uncomfortable
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truth. Sometimes women gossip about each
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other out of competition.
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Research on relational aggression shows
00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:33.590
that women more than men tend to use
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social exclusion and reputation damage
00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:40.470
as forms of competition. Gossip can be a
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way to position yourself as better than
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or more stable than somebody who's
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.629
struggling. If you're going through a
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.990
messy breakup and your friend is in a
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.110
marriage she's insecure about, gossiping
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.509
about your situation might make her feel
00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.829
safer about her own. It creates
00:13:59.839 --> 00:14:03.030
distance. I'm not like her. My
00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:05.030
relationship is solid. Even if we're
00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:08.870
struggling, this is painful to name, but
00:14:08.880 --> 00:14:12.470
it's real. And to be honest, it's
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.949
happening all the time.
00:14:14.959 --> 00:14:18.870
It's still harmful.
00:14:18.880 --> 00:14:21.430
So, let's talk about what gossip
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.949
actually does to the person on the
00:14:24.959 --> 00:14:26.949
receiving end.
00:14:26.959 --> 00:14:30.790
I think it's safe to say
00:14:30.800 --> 00:14:32.790
anyone listening,
00:14:32.800 --> 00:14:34.629
especially females, like anyone
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.389
listening
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.550
is going to be able to relate to being
00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:43.910
on the receiving end of gossip and being
00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:45.750
hurt by that.
00:14:45.760 --> 00:14:49.829
um if not in your stage of adulthood
00:14:49.839 --> 00:14:52.310
you're in now, probably when you were
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.470
young.
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:59.509
It erodess trust in all relationships.
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.750
When someone gossips about you during a
00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:04.710
vulnerable time, it doesn't just end the
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.949
friendship, it changes your relationship
00:15:06.959 --> 00:15:09.910
to vulnerability itself. A study in the
00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:12.230
journal of personality and social
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.790
psychology found that betrayal by a
00:15:14.800 --> 00:15:16.710
close friend, particularly when trust
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.910
was very high, leads to what researchers
00:15:19.920 --> 00:15:22.710
call generalized
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:24.470
distrust.
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:26.870
You don't just stop trusting that
00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:29.509
person, you start questioning whether
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.389
anybody is safe.
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.310
For women who are going through
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.910
relationship crisis, this is
00:15:35.920 --> 00:15:38.310
particularly damaging.
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:39.590
You're already questioning your
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.150
judgment. You may have missed signs of
00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:44.870
infidelity or stayed too long in a
00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:47.350
harmful relationship or stayed too long
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.470
in an unhappy relationship.
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.749
Now, in addition to the stress of going
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.910
through a breakup, a separation, a
00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:59.670
divorce, and all
00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:03.030
of the stress and terrible things that
00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:05.990
happen in that process, now you're also
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.910
questioning your ability to choose safe
00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:10.069
friends.
00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:13.110
And there's a lot of blame on yourself
00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.310
and questioning yourself and who you
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:17.670
are.
00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:20.069
The betrayal compounds the original
00:16:20.079 --> 00:16:21.910
crisis
00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:24.710
and activates a trauma response.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.030
Dr. Bessel Vanderolk, one of my
00:16:27.040 --> 00:16:29.110
favorites, trauma researcher and the
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.350
author of Body Keep Score, explains that
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.550
betrayal trauma, especially by someone
00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:39.990
who you trusted deeply, can activate the
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.870
same neural pathways as physical threat.
00:16:42.880 --> 00:16:45.030
Your nervous system registers it as
00:16:45.040 --> 00:16:46.949
danger.
00:16:46.959 --> 00:16:49.430
You may experience hypervigilance,
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:51.670
constantly monitoring who might be
00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:54.629
talking about you. Um, monitoring
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:57.189
everything that you say and do and
00:16:57.199 --> 00:16:59.829
questioning it afterward.
00:16:59.839 --> 00:17:01.910
Withdrawal, pulling away from social
00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:04.230
connection completely,
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.789
or even emotional numbing just because
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.150
it's so painful.
00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.510
When you find out that someone who's
00:17:13.520 --> 00:17:16.390
your person, the person you tell
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:19.350
everything to, has been sharing that
00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:20.870
everything
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.350
with other people who barely know you.
00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:28.950
In some cases,
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:32.470
there really are no words
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:33.990
for
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.909
all of the feelings, questioning,
00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:42.710
doubt, and distrust that you have.
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.029
Not just for that person, but for
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:46.950
anybody.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.350
For women who are already navigating the
00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:51.990
stress of a breakup or divorce, this
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.590
adds another layer of dysregulation.
00:17:55.600 --> 00:17:58.070
You're trying to heal and instead you're
00:17:58.080 --> 00:18:00.630
in survival mode
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.870
from your friend who put you there.
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.830
This increases shame and isolation.
00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:10.630
Researcher Dr. Jennifer Frerieded coined
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.870
the term betrayal trauma to describe
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.789
what happens when someone we depend on
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.950
for safety violates our trust. When a
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.750
friend gossips about you, especially
00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:24.549
about something as tender as a
00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:26.870
relationship crisis,
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.549
it often triggers really deep shame in
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.110
you. Even though you're not the one
00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:35.590
who's doing it, you start wondering
00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:38.710
like, "What did I do wrong? Why wasn't I
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.029
worth protecting?
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.390
What's wrong with me that this person
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.390
couldn't hold my story?
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.070
In addition to all of the worries about
00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:54.870
how these people that you may or may not
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:59.270
even know are judging you in this
00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:02.549
horrible time of your life.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:05.830
The shame is what drives isolation and
00:19:05.840 --> 00:19:08.950
makes you want to block out everyone.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.070
You stop reaching out. You stop sharing.
00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:13.909
You convince yourself it's safer to
00:19:13.919 --> 00:19:17.029
handle everything alone.
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.590
And isolation, as we know from decades
00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:21.830
of research, is one of the most
00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:24.310
significant predictors of poor mental
00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:25.909
health outcomes during major life
00:19:25.919 --> 00:19:27.590
transition.
00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:30.470
It's actually going to delay your
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.310
healing.
00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:34.470
Here's what many, many, many women don't
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.950
realize. The betrayal by a friend during
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.909
a relationship crisis can actually take
00:19:39.919 --> 00:19:42.630
longer to heal from than the
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.190
relationship itself. And I can attest to
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.549
that with my own personal relationship
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.430
and my own personal experience.
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.909
Why? Because the relationship that
00:19:53.919 --> 00:19:56.870
ended, you saw that coming. Even if you
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.430
didn't want to admit it, you had some
00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:01.270
preparation,
00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:04.230
however inadequate it was. But the
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.710
friend betrayal
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:08.789
completely blindsides you. You trusted
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.070
this person. You didn't see it coming.
00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:13.830
you trusted them or you wouldn't have
00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:18.150
shared. And now you have to grieve not
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.710
one but two losses, the relationship and
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:22.710
the friendship.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.190
Research on complicated grief shows that
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.510
betrayal significantly extends the
00:20:27.520 --> 00:20:29.750
grieving process. You're not just
00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:31.270
grieving what you lost. You're grieving
00:20:31.280 --> 00:20:35.350
the fact that someone you trusted
00:20:35.360 --> 00:20:37.909
hurt you and made it worse in your
00:20:37.919 --> 00:20:39.510
worst,
00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:42.710
most vulnerable time of your life. Cuz
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.430
let's face it, breakups and divorce
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.190
bring out this tremendous pain that's
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.270
just indescribable.
00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:57.350
And other than the death of loved ones,
00:20:57.360 --> 00:21:00.710
there's not a lot worse.
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.270
If you listen to this and you recognize
00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:05.990
yourself, if you've been betrayed by a
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.510
friend during a breakup, separation, or
00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:11.430
divorce, here's what I want you to know.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.750
Your reaction and everything you're
00:21:13.760 --> 00:21:17.190
feeling is valid. You're not being
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.310
dramatic. You're not overreacting. This
00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:22.630
is real betrayal and it deserves to be
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.070
named and grieved.
00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:29.750
It says more about them than you. That
00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:31.510
gossip happened because of something
00:21:31.520 --> 00:21:34.630
lacking in them. Emotional capacity,
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:36.470
self-awareness,
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:38.950
the ability to sit with discomfort, even
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.590
if it's not their own.
00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:43.590
It doesn't mean you were wrong to trust
00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:45.990
them. It means they just weren't
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.029
equipped to be trustworthy in that
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.070
moment. And obviously, you did not know
00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:54.950
that.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:58.070
You get to protect yourself. You don't
00:21:58.080 --> 00:22:00.230
owe anyone continued access to your
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.110
story. If someone has shown you that
00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:05.990
they can't hold your vulnerability with
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.470
care, it's okay to pull back. It's okay
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:09.990
to end the friendship. It's okay to
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.029
grieve and move on. It's also okay to
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.590
tell them what they've done and tell
00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:17.830
them that you they are no longer a safe
00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.549
person for you.
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:24.390
Not all friends are unsafe either, but
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.510
you have to learn discernment.
00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:29.990
This experience of going through this
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.669
might teach you something really
00:22:31.679 --> 00:22:36.070
valuable. What safe actually looks like.
00:22:36.080 --> 00:22:37.669
Safe people don't share your story
00:22:37.679 --> 00:22:40.470
without permission. Safe people say,
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:42.950
"I'm not equipped for this if they can't
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.230
hold it." Safe people check in before
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.029
repeating anything you shared. You're
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.110
not becoming cynical, you're becoming
00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:53.990
wiser. And this is an opportunity to
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.870
learn from uncomfortable and a terrible
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.789
situation.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:00.630
But rebuilding trust is going to take
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.950
time. And that's okay, too. Be patient
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.350
with yourself. It's okay if you're more
00:23:05.360 --> 00:23:07.110
guarded now. It's okay if you're slower
00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:10.870
to open up. You're recalibrating. And
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.350
that recalibration is protection. It's
00:23:13.360 --> 00:23:17.190
not pathology. And it's not forever.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:19.909
I do encourage people who've gone
00:23:19.919 --> 00:23:22.230
through this to work with a therapist or
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.990
a coach.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.470
If betrayals layering on top of your
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.789
relationship crisis in ways that feel
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.789
overwhelming,
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.630
professional support can really help you
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.149
process both the losses and rebuild your
00:23:36.159 --> 00:23:39.590
capacity, trust.
00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:42.789
In my situation, having access to my
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.190
therapist in EMDR
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.190
helped me not only process the grief
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.270
from losing the friendship and
00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:56.470
the trust issues that came from the
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.390
betrayal,
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.310
but additionally
00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:03.190
it helped me identify
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:08.230
trait and things that I had been
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.390
calling into my life and
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.789
characteristics of people who were
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:16.470
untrustworthy
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.430
that I was allowing in and why I was
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.470
doing that kind of this self- sabotage
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.789
type reasons that I was allowing
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:28.630
relationships and friendships that
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:30.630
didn't have the boundaries in place that
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:32.310
would protect me from something like
00:24:32.320 --> 00:24:34.070
this happening.
00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:36.630
So, we can always learn. We can always
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.430
get curious. And we can always process
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.789
with a professional to figure out
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:48.310
why and how to avoid it in the future.
00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:49.990
Now, I want to talk about if you've been
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.230
the one who gossiped. All right? Cuz
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.230
let's face it, we've all done this.
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:57.830
That's part of the reason we're making
00:24:57.840 --> 00:25:01.350
this episode is we've all done this.
00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:03.909
If you are listening to this and you
00:25:03.919 --> 00:25:07.029
recognize yourself on the other side, if
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:08.710
you've gossiped about a friend going
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:10.870
through a hard time, this is your
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:14.710
invitation to pause and reflect and ask
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.549
yourself, what was I getting from
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.590
sharing their story?
00:25:21.600 --> 00:25:23.430
Was I trying to feel closer to the
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.310
person I was gossiping with?
00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:29.830
Was I discharging my own discomfort
00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:33.430
about what they were going through?
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:35.669
Was I afraid of being vulnerable myself,
00:25:35.679 --> 00:25:39.590
so I shared their vulnerability instead?
00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:42.710
There's no shame in recognizing
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.549
these patterns, but there is
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.470
responsibility
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.909
in changing it. If you realize you've
00:25:49.919 --> 00:25:52.549
betrayed someone's trust or you do this
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.870
often, consider
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.269
apologizing genuinely without
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.110
defensiveness,
00:25:59.120 --> 00:26:03.350
repairing where possible,
00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:06.230
examining what internal work that you
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.110
need to do so this doesn't happen again.
00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:12.230
And moving forward, practice this. When
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.549
someone shares something vulnerable, ask
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.590
yourself, is this mine to share?
00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:20.950
If the answer is no, then hold it or
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.830
tell them honestly. I care about you,
00:26:23.840 --> 00:26:26.149
but I don't think I can hold this right
00:26:26.159 --> 00:26:28.390
now.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.510
Honesty, even if it's uncomfortable, is
00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:34.230
kinder than betrayal.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.029
I in the past was in a situation where a
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.750
friend was sharing
00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:42.549
really terrible things that were
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.630
happening to her during her divorce.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.950
And this was way before my divorce and
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.870
way before I was in my own therapy.
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:57.669
And I did share
00:26:57.679 --> 00:27:00.230
some of her information with another
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.510
friend who didn't know her.
00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:05.990
And now I can recognize that I did that
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:07.909
because I did not have the capacity. It
00:27:07.919 --> 00:27:09.510
was very upsetting what she was going
00:27:09.520 --> 00:27:13.190
through. Um it was egregious. Like
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:16.470
terrible things were happening to her.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.630
I felt so bad for her,
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.750
but I also
00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:25.669
just didn't have the ability to hold it
00:27:25.679 --> 00:27:29.990
in and have the space. So, there was a
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.350
point in time when I took distance
00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:36.149
and I stopped being the sounding board.
00:27:36.159 --> 00:27:38.149
I I
00:27:38.159 --> 00:27:40.390
stopped having contact
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:42.470
so that I didn't have to take it all in
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.909
because I recognized I couldn't hold it.
00:27:45.919 --> 00:27:49.430
And I think that that is a life skill. I
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.990
think there's a reason why
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:54.630
teenagers and people in their 20s
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.549
probably probably gossip more. As we get
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:02.470
older, we can learn to hold more space
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.070
for people and hold people's truths and
00:28:06.080 --> 00:28:09.750
vulnerabilities more. But we can also
00:28:09.760 --> 00:28:12.789
learn to set boundaries and speak up
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:18.630
when we don't have the ability.
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.950
Some of the things that were shared
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:24.549
during the time of my divorce
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.389
were shared
00:28:28.399 --> 00:28:34.070
in a way that put me and my kids' future
00:28:34.080 --> 00:28:37.590
and financial stability at risk.
00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:40.789
And I don't think that the person who
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.029
did it
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.669
did it for that reason.
00:28:45.679 --> 00:28:47.190
But
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.269
that happened and that was part of the
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.870
most hurtful part like that it was
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.630
putting me and my kids' future at risk
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:02.310
at a time when I needed so much to feel
00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:05.990
safe and secure especially financially.
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:07.510
So,
00:29:07.520 --> 00:29:11.750
I guess this message is for
00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:14.149
this episode is not only for the people
00:29:14.159 --> 00:29:15.430
who've been through this and who've had
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:17.350
it happen to them and just saying, "I
00:29:17.360 --> 00:29:20.870
see you and I understand."
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:22.710
But it's also for the people that I know
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.909
it's hard to hold space when someone is
00:29:25.919 --> 00:29:28.470
going through these really big life
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.190
transitions. Getting fired,
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.430
getting divorced, losing a loved one.
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.190
like there's they need so much, right?
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.190
And there's so much sharing.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.510
It's okay to say I can't hold space.
00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:48.310
There are ways to do that. There are
00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:52.470
ways to do that kindly. It is not kind
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.710
to take the juicy details
00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:59.029
and the pain of what someone is going
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.669
through and telling people who are
00:30:01.679 --> 00:30:05.909
essentially strangers to that person
00:30:05.919 --> 00:30:09.269
to just share.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:13.110
Like that's not okay ever.
00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:15.669
So here's what I want to leave you with.
00:30:15.679 --> 00:30:18.389
Women need each other. It's not
00:30:18.399 --> 00:30:20.389
sentimental. It's biological. It's
00:30:20.399 --> 00:30:23.990
backed by research. I need other women.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.909
It has taken a long time
00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:31.269
and a lot of work for me to trust other
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:33.590
women again.
00:30:33.600 --> 00:30:35.669
But our nervous systems regulate through
00:30:35.679 --> 00:30:38.310
connection with other women.
00:30:38.320 --> 00:30:41.430
That connection has to be safe.
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:43.990
Gossip, especially during crisis,
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.190
fractures safety. It makes us less
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:49.269
likely to reach out to others, less
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.269
likely to be vulnerable, less likely to
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.830
trust. And when we lose our ability to
00:30:53.840 --> 00:30:57.110
trust each other, we lose access to one
00:30:57.120 --> 00:30:59.430
of the most powerful resources for
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.789
healing, each other.
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.590
And often times, we're exposing our
00:31:05.600 --> 00:31:08.389
daughters and our sons to it. And
00:31:08.399 --> 00:31:11.510
they're learning to do the same thing to
00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:14.389
their friends.
00:31:14.399 --> 00:31:17.669
So, let's do better.
00:31:17.679 --> 00:31:21.029
Let's name it. And if we do it, let's
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:24.389
apologize for it. Or let's recognize
00:31:24.399 --> 00:31:27.909
when we do it and stop.
00:31:27.919 --> 00:31:30.389
Let's name gossip for what it is. It's
00:31:30.399 --> 00:31:33.750
not harmless venting. It's betrayal.
00:31:33.760 --> 00:31:35.110
Let's build friendships where
00:31:35.120 --> 00:31:38.549
vulnerability is sacred.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:42.310
Where stories are held with care.
00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:45.110
where trust is earned,
00:31:45.120 --> 00:31:47.029
protected,
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.310
and kept sacred. Because the women going
00:31:50.320 --> 00:31:52.310
through breakups, infidelity, divorce,
00:31:52.320 --> 00:31:54.630
and separation that I work with, they
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:58.789
deserve friends who can hold them,
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.350
who can witness their pain without
00:32:01.360 --> 00:32:04.549
turning it into entertainment.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:10.470
And I promise you that if you're sharing
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.789
someone else's pain
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:14.870
with friends,
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.549
you're also losing those friends trust
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.190
because people recognize it when you do
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:26.070
this. So if you're sharing Jane's pain
00:32:26.080 --> 00:32:28.950
with Amy and Mary,
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:33.190
Amy and Mary are not going to trust you.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:35.110
They're going to look at you and say, "I
00:32:35.120 --> 00:32:38.630
saw what she just did."
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:40.470
So,
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.549
who can say, "I see you. I'm here. Your
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.509
story is safe with me."
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:48.950
That's the kind of friendship that
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.590
actually heals.
00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:54.549
That's the kind of friendship we want to
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:56.870
provide to the women that we care about,
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:01.190
who love us, and support us back.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:03.590
So,
00:33:03.600 --> 00:33:07.509
I hope this helps someone out there
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:11.029
avoid being in this same situation.
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.190
I know that this is geared toward a
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.110
population near and dear to my heart.
00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:17.110
Women going through these really
00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:19.350
terrible things,
00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:22.789
but it applies to others as well. people
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:25.669
who lose a child, lose a husband, lose
00:33:25.679 --> 00:33:27.590
parents,
00:33:27.600 --> 00:33:29.430
get fired, go through anything
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.430
controversial,
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.909
like if they confide in you, put it in a
00:33:35.919 --> 00:33:41.190
lock box and hold it safe and sacred.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.320
Till next time, thank you.