Eden:
Hey Audrey.
Audrey:
Hey Eden.
Eden:
How are you doing today? Thanks so much for coming back. We're so lucky to have you again. But more importantly — what’d you have for dinner last night?
Audrey:
Yeah, I’m so happy to be back. Thank you for having me. I'm doing really well. Thanks again for asking. Last night I had one of my favorite dinners, and it’s super simple — a rice noodle, tofu, mushroom stir-fry. It’s one of those meals we call a “kitchen sink” meal — whatever vegetables we need to use, whatever protein we have, plus a starch.
We had rice noodles, tofu, delicious portobello mushrooms, scallions, snow peas — just the whole vegetable drawer. What about you? What did you have for dinner last night?
Eden:
That sounds amazing. We’ve actually been doing a bit of meal prep lately, and I wanted to shout out something we love: Rainbow Plant Life. Every week they send a PDF with a grocery list and meal plan. You meal prep for about an hour on Sunday, and then have three great, easy-to-prep meals for the week.
Last night we had their “rainbow noodles” — not rice noodles, but something similar — with tofu, edamame, cabbage, and carrots, plus this carrot-cabbage slaw with a sunny citrus vinaigrette. The whole plate was so colorful and fresh. Nothing to do with what we're talking about today, but I highly recommend Rainbow Plant Life — super simple and honestly delicious. Not every recipe blows us away, but every single one is tasty, and about half of them really wow us.
Anyway — today, we're not talking about meal prepping with whole food plant-based ingredients. We're talking about processed meats — why we should avoid them, and what we can eat instead. We'll get into lots of swap options — some not-so-healthy, but better than processed meat; and some that are genuinely pretty healthy.
Just to set the stage: we’ve known for a while that processed meats aren’t good for us. In 2015, the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified red meat as a “probable carcinogen,” and processed meat as a known carcinogen. That’s been reaffirmed in multiple studies since.
One review I want to mention is by Gonzalez et al., published in Food Research International. It looked at research from 2010–2020 to determine whether the IARC was right. Spoiler: they were. The data continues to show that processed meats are toxic and carcinogenic — meaning they cause cancer — and cause a lot of other problems too.
I won’t get too into the weeds, but part of the issue is that meats are fatty, and fat is a great storage place for environmental toxins. Even if the meat itself were “clean,” the animals ingest toxins that get stored in their fat and passed on to us.
Wild meat isn’t necessarily safer either — more viruses, less regulation. Especially in countries (ours included) where meat oversight is lacking, the risk of contamination is real.
That same article also highlighted the climate impact: processed meat contributes significantly to greenhouse gas emissions. Their conclusion? Our dietary habits around meat — especially red and wild meats — need to be modified downward, as much and as soon as possible.
So hearing all that, Audrey — what are your thoughts?
Audrey:
It’s pretty alarming. But I do think it’s important to clarify exactly what we mean when we say processed meats.
According to the NOVA food classification system — which has its flaws, but is widely used — there’s a distinction between processed foods and ultra-processed foods. And processed meats fall into their own category.
When I think of processed meats, especially in the school food world where I work, I think of things we see on menus every day: bacon, sausage, those “breakfast corn dogs” that are sausage wrapped in a pancake. Basically any combo of processed meat and a grain.
A lot of people just think bacon — but it's much more than that. What else are you including?
Eden:
Definitely all of those — bacon, sausage, bratwurst, hot dogs, pepperoni, salami. Even some lunch meats. If it's sliced turkey breast and it actually came from a turkey breast, maybe that's better — but a lot of what's sold is processed, reconstituted, and packed with nitrates.
The danger isn’t just the meat itself — it’s what happens to it in processing. Nitrates, preservatives, curing — that’s where the cancer risk really ramps up.
Audrey:
Exactly. And there's also that overlap between processed meat and ultra-processed food. Things like chicken nuggets and patties — even if they’re not nitrate-cured — are heavily processed and come with their own risks.
Eden:
Yes! And let’s be honest — they often contain cartilage, blood vessels, bone fragments. So, yeah... not ideal. We’ve talked about ultra-processed foods before, but just as a reminder: it usually means something you couldn’t make at home, even if you tried. That’s the key difference.
I also want to bring up a couple more studies about health risks. One umbrella review by Zang et al., published in the British Journal of Nutrition in 2023, looked at processed meat and non-cancer outcomes — things like Type 2 diabetes, stroke, and heart disease.
They found that just 100 grams a day — about a quarter-pound burger — was associated with:
17% higher risk of Type 2 diabetes
15% higher risk of heart disease
14% higher risk of hypertension
12% higher risk of stroke
That’s not a lot of meat for such a big risk.
There was also a meta-analysis in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health showing that processed meat consumption is linked to depression — likely due to systemic inflammation and the formation of nitrosamines (nitrates that convert into probable carcinogens in the body).
So yeah… we’re adding these things to make meat “tastier,” and it’s literally killing us. Yay, go us.
What are your thoughts, Audrey — especially in terms of how this shows up in schools and hospitals?
Audrey:
It’s tough — these foods are everywhere. They’re built into what we expect at lunch, at games, in cafeterias. And they taste good! They're designed in labs to hit those bliss points. They’re cheap to produce, easy to serve, and familiar.
In schools, students don’t get to opt out of what's on the menu. It's chosen for them. And often, those choices are full of fillers and cheap additives that make these products easy for institutions to buy — but terrible for health.
But change is possible. There are alternatives out there.
Eden:
Absolutely. It’s hard, too, because culturally we’re encouraged to accept this food. I grew up in the South — it’s rude to reject food when it’s offered. So if someone hands you a plate of carcinogens, and you say no thank you… you’re the rude one?
And it’s not just food — it's often served with alcohol, another toxin. So saying no becomes a social minefield.
We need to reimagine how we celebrate, what we normalize. And no, it doesn’t have to be perfect. There’s a huge space between a strip of bacon and eating kale off a plate. We're not saying you need to eat twigs.
What we are saying is: there are better options. Audrey?
Audrey:
Totally agree. And I think this episode is about relativity, not perfection. It’s not about going from a hot dog to optimal health overnight. It’s about shifting along the spectrum.
If you eat one hot dog a year, that’s not what’s hurting you. The issue is that for many people, hot dogs are a daily offering — in schools, in hospitals, in cafeterias.
Eden:
Yes — and the media doesn’t help. It loves to tear down plant-based alternatives for being “processed,” without comparing them to what they’re replacing.
When I first transitioned to plant-based, I leaned heavily on the fake stuff. I wanted the comfort of something familiar. It’s been nearly nine years now, and I’ve shifted a lot — but those products helped me get started.
Audrey:
And when we work with schools, we use this approach: start small, start familiar, keep it manageable. Add one item. Make it recognizable. Build from there.
So Eden, what are some of the small, familiar choices people can start with if they want to cut processed meat but not jump to raw kale?
Eden:
Honestly? Start with what’s in the freezer aisle. Things like Beyond Sausage, Impossible Burgers — they’re not perfect, but they beat processed meat in fiber, sodium, and fat.
I’ll have a Beyond Sausage maybe every other week. I don't feel bad about it — because the rest of my plate is usually pretty healthy.
What about you?
Audrey:
Same. I'm not a great cook, so I lean into things that are easy. Beyond sausages, tempeh bacon in the air fryer — stuff like that. You can also try things like textured vegetable protein (TVP) for DIY alternatives.
Eden:
Yes! I love playing with flavors. Bacon was a tough one for me — I didn’t even like the texture that much, but the flavor? So good.
The good news is that bacon flavor mostly comes from seasoning — smoke, salt, a little sweet. We make a great tempeh bacon bit with liquid smoke, liquid aminos, and maple syrup. There’s also Lightlife Tempeh Bacon, Simple Truth Eggplant Bacon, Sweet Earth Benevolent Bacon — all solid.
And if I’m feeling ambitious, I’ll make my own with mushrooms or eggplant.
Audrey:
Love those. And for hot dogs — honestly, there’s a ton of vegan options out there now. Even deli slices. Brands like Jack & Annie’s use jackfruit, which is high in fiber and gluten-free. And I’ve seen everything from vegan breakfast sausage to plant-based Spam. (I haven’t tried it — but people swear by it!)
Back in the day, hot dogs and black bean burgers were basically it. Now we’ve got so many better options.
Eden:
Totally. And even if you’re stuck with limited choices — cookouts, ballparks, potlucks — there’s almost always something. A grain salad, a fruit plate, a veggie side. You can bring something too.
In schools and hospitals, we’ve got more work to do. We see things like Uncrustables as the “vegetarian option” — which, okay, it's a PB&J. Not the worst. But we can do better, especially for people who are sick or recovering.
Audrey:
Yes — and for people who need to go all-in for health reasons, like after a heart attack or cancer diagnosis, there are great whole-food alternatives. Think: carrot bacon, carrot hot dogs, smoked carrot lox — some of them are shockingly good!
Eden:
Yes! Rainbow Plant Life does a lot of whole-food, plant-based recipes too. And if you're not into the slow transition — you can dive in with both feet. There are tons of resources and communities out there.
Just Google “whole food plant-based [insert food]” and you'll find so many recipes.
If one doesn’t taste great? Try another. That’s how we learn to cook, right?
Audrey:
Absolutely. And over time, your taste buds adjust. You stop craving the same things, and start appreciating new flavors. It’s a journey — and it can actually be fun.
My husband always says, “I gave up five things — beef, pork, chicken, eggs, dairy — and got 30 or 40 new things in my diet.”
So it’s not about what you’re giving up — it’s about what you’re gaining.
Eden:
Couldn’t agree more. Thanks so much for being here today.
Audrey:
Thanks for having me! I hope we get to talk again soon.
Hey Audrey.
Audrey:
Hey Eden.
Eden:
How are you doing today? Thanks so much for coming back. We're so lucky to have you again. But more importantly — what’d you have for dinner last night?
Audrey:
Yeah, I’m so happy to be back. Thank you for having me. I'm doing really well. Thanks again for asking. Last night I had one of my favorite dinners, and it’s super simple — a rice noodle, tofu, mushroom stir-fry. It’s one of those meals we call a “kitchen sink” meal — whatever vegetables we need to use, whatever protein we have, plus a starch.
We had rice noodles, tofu, delicious portobello mushrooms, scallions, snow peas — just the whole vegetable drawer. What about you? What did you have for dinner last night?
Eden:
That sounds amazing. We’ve actually been doing a bit of meal prep lately, and I wanted to shout out something we love: Rainbow Plant Life. Every week they send a PDF with a grocery list and meal plan. You meal prep for about an hour on Sunday, and then have three great, easy-to-prep meals for the week.
Last night we had their “rainbow noodles” — not rice noodles, but something similar — with tofu, edamame, cabbage, and carrots, plus this carrot-cabbage slaw with a sunny citrus vinaigrette. The whole plate was so colorful and fresh. Nothing to do with what we're talking about today, but I highly recommend Rainbow Plant Life — super simple and honestly delicious. Not every recipe blows us away, but every single one is tasty, and about half of them really wow us.
Anyway — today, we're not talking about meal prepping with whole food plant-based ingredients. We're talking about processed meats — why we should avoid them, and what we can eat instead. We'll get into lots of swap options — some not-so-healthy, but better than processed meat; and some that are genuinely pretty healthy.
Just to set the stage: we’ve known for a while that processed meats aren’t good for us. In 2015, the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified red meat as a “probable carcinogen,” and processed meat as a known carcinogen. That’s been reaffirmed in multiple studies since.
One review I want to mention is by Gonzalez et al., published in Food Research International. It looked at research from 2010–2020 to determine whether the IARC was right. Spoiler: they were. The data continues to show that processed meats are toxic and carcinogenic — meaning they cause cancer — and cause a lot of other problems too.
I won’t get too into the weeds, but part of the issue is that meats are fatty, and fat is a great storage place for environmental toxins. Even if the meat itself were “clean,” the animals ingest toxins that get stored in their fat and passed on to us.
Wild meat isn’t necessarily safer either — more viruses, less regulation. Especially in countries (ours included) where meat oversight is lacking, the risk of contamination is real.
That same article also highlighted the climate impact: processed meat contributes significantly to greenhouse gas emissions. Their conclusion? Our dietary habits around meat — especially red and wild meats — need to be modified downward, as much and as soon as possible.
So hearing all that, Audrey — what are your thoughts?
Audrey:
It’s pretty alarming. But I do think it’s important to clarify exactly what we mean when we say processed meats.
According to the NOVA food classification system — which has its flaws, but is widely used — there’s a distinction between processed foods and ultra-processed foods. And processed meats fall into their own category.
When I think of processed meats, especially in the school food world where I work, I think of things we see on menus every day: bacon, sausage, those “breakfast corn dogs” that are sausage wrapped in a pancake. Basically any combo of processed meat and a grain.
A lot of people just think bacon — but it's much more than that. What else are you including?
Eden:
Definitely all of those — bacon, sausage, bratwurst, hot dogs, pepperoni, salami. Even some lunch meats. If it's sliced turkey breast and it actually came from a turkey breast, maybe that's better — but a lot of what's sold is processed, reconstituted, and packed with nitrates.
The danger isn’t just the meat itself — it’s what happens to it in processing. Nitrates, preservatives, curing — that’s where the cancer risk really ramps up.
Audrey:
Exactly. And there's also that overlap between processed meat and ultra-processed food. Things like chicken nuggets and patties — even if they’re not nitrate-cured — are heavily processed and come with their own risks.
Eden:
Yes! And let’s be honest — they often contain cartilage, blood vessels, bone fragments. So, yeah... not ideal. We’ve talked about ultra-processed foods before, but just as a reminder: it usually means something you couldn’t make at home, even if you tried. That’s the key difference.
I also want to bring up a couple more studies about health risks. One umbrella review by Zang et al., published in the British Journal of Nutrition in 2023, looked at processed meat and non-cancer outcomes — things like Type 2 diabetes, stroke, and heart disease.
They found that just 100 grams a day — about a quarter-pound burger — was associated with:
17% higher risk of Type 2 diabetes
15% higher risk of heart disease
14% higher risk of hypertension
12% higher risk of stroke
That’s not a lot of meat for such a big risk.
There was also a meta-analysis in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health showing that processed meat consumption is linked to depression — likely due to systemic inflammation and the formation of nitrosamines (nitrates that convert into probable carcinogens in the body).
So yeah… we’re adding these things to make meat “tastier,” and it’s literally killing us. Yay, go us.
What are your thoughts, Audrey — especially in terms of how this shows up in schools and hospitals?
Audrey:
It’s tough — these foods are everywhere. They’re built into what we expect at lunch, at games, in cafeterias. And they taste good! They're designed in labs to hit those bliss points. They’re cheap to produce, easy to serve, and familiar.
In schools, students don’t get to opt out of what's on the menu. It's chosen for them. And often, those choices are full of fillers and cheap additives that make these products easy for institutions to buy — but terrible for health.
But change is possible. There are alternatives out there.
Eden:
Absolutely. It’s hard, too, because culturally we’re encouraged to accept this food. I grew up in the South — it’s rude to reject food when it’s offered. So if someone hands you a plate of carcinogens, and you say no thank you… you’re the rude one?
And it’s not just food — it's often served with alcohol, another toxin. So saying no becomes a social minefield.
We need to reimagine how we celebrate, what we normalize. And no, it doesn’t have to be perfect. There’s a huge space between a strip of bacon and eating kale off a plate. We're not saying you need to eat twigs.
What we are saying is: there are better options. Audrey?
Audrey:
Totally agree. And I think this episode is about relativity, not perfection. It’s not about going from a hot dog to optimal health overnight. It’s about shifting along the spectrum.
If you eat one hot dog a year, that’s not what’s hurting you. The issue is that for many people, hot dogs are a daily offering — in schools, in hospitals, in cafeterias.
Eden:
Yes — and the media doesn’t help. It loves to tear down plant-based alternatives for being “processed,” without comparing them to what they’re replacing.
When I first transitioned to plant-based, I leaned heavily on the fake stuff. I wanted the comfort of something familiar. It’s been nearly nine years now, and I’ve shifted a lot — but those products helped me get started.
Audrey:
And when we work with schools, we use this approach: start small, start familiar, keep it manageable. Add one item. Make it recognizable. Build from there.
So Eden, what are some of the small, familiar choices people can start with if they want to cut processed meat but not jump to raw kale?
Eden:
Honestly? Start with what’s in the freezer aisle. Things like Beyond Sausage, Impossible Burgers — they’re not perfect, but they beat processed meat in fiber, sodium, and fat.
I’ll have a Beyond Sausage maybe every other week. I don't feel bad about it — because the rest of my plate is usually pretty healthy.
What about you?
Audrey:
Same. I'm not a great cook, so I lean into things that are easy. Beyond sausages, tempeh bacon in the air fryer — stuff like that. You can also try things like textured vegetable protein (TVP) for DIY alternatives.
Eden:
Yes! I love playing with flavors. Bacon was a tough one for me — I didn’t even like the texture that much, but the flavor? So good.
The good news is that bacon flavor mostly comes from seasoning — smoke, salt, a little sweet. We make a great tempeh bacon bit with liquid smoke, liquid aminos, and maple syrup. There’s also Lightlife Tempeh Bacon, Simple Truth Eggplant Bacon, Sweet Earth Benevolent Bacon — all solid.
And if I’m feeling ambitious, I’ll make my own with mushrooms or eggplant.
Audrey:
Love those. And for hot dogs — honestly, there’s a ton of vegan options out there now. Even deli slices. Brands like Jack & Annie’s use jackfruit, which is high in fiber and gluten-free. And I’ve seen everything from vegan breakfast sausage to plant-based Spam. (I haven’t tried it — but people swear by it!)
Back in the day, hot dogs and black bean burgers were basically it. Now we’ve got so many better options.
Eden:
Totally. And even if you’re stuck with limited choices — cookouts, ballparks, potlucks — there’s almost always something. A grain salad, a fruit plate, a veggie side. You can bring something too.
In schools and hospitals, we’ve got more work to do. We see things like Uncrustables as the “vegetarian option” — which, okay, it's a PB&J. Not the worst. But we can do better, especially for people who are sick or recovering.
Audrey:
Yes — and for people who need to go all-in for health reasons, like after a heart attack or cancer diagnosis, there are great whole-food alternatives. Think: carrot bacon, carrot hot dogs, smoked carrot lox — some of them are shockingly good!
Eden:
Yes! Rainbow Plant Life does a lot of whole-food, plant-based recipes too. And if you're not into the slow transition — you can dive in with both feet. There are tons of resources and communities out there.
Just Google “whole food plant-based [insert food]” and you'll find so many recipes.
If one doesn’t taste great? Try another. That’s how we learn to cook, right?
Audrey:
Absolutely. And over time, your taste buds adjust. You stop craving the same things, and start appreciating new flavors. It’s a journey — and it can actually be fun.
My husband always says, “I gave up five things — beef, pork, chicken, eggs, dairy — and got 30 or 40 new things in my diet.”
So it’s not about what you’re giving up — it’s about what you’re gaining.
Eden:
Couldn’t agree more. Thanks so much for being here today.
Audrey:
Thanks for having me! I hope we get to talk again soon.
