00:00:06
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers.com. I am Mike Spofford, joined, as always, by my trusted colleague, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from the Pottawatomie Sportsbook studio inside the walls of Lambeau Field to review, Wes, a 23-13 Green Bay Packers Sunday night football victory over the Dallas Cowboys. And in the discussion of this game, it must start with Green Bay's defense because Jonathan Gannon's crew was nothing short of flying around out there.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Flying around, hunting around, just persistent, tenacious, and it was from the first whistle of the game until the very end. I think, you know, I almost want to turn this question back to you because I talked about this in Insider Inbox for Tuesday's column. Dom Capers had some great defenses during my time here. I did not cover the Super Bowl 45 team. You did. Mike Pettin had a fair amount of success here. I think you look at what Jeff Halfley did the past two seasons, a very creative, flexible, versatile defense that adjusted. In my time, I have never seen this many free runners to a quarterback. And I'm talking untouched here. It's not just, okay, there was a running back to beat. There was a pass protector to beat. There was a chip to beat. The way that Jonathan Gannon has dialed this up, and it was when Edren Cooper was available, and now as we've seen when Edren Cooper is not available, he's using his inside linebackers, his safeties, all these guys together to generate this amount of pressure. the thing I actually enjoyed the most is he has these moments too, where he just spams blitzes. Yeah. In the fourth quarter, there was a, just like with Evan Williams a week earlier, there was a moment where he just, just kept sending Javon Bullard over and over again. Who cares? You know, like it is, he has stressed over and over again. It is about players, not about the plays, but his confidence and his players to fulfill his scheme and to, to get to the quarterback, to generate pressure and ultimately generate takeaways is, I've just been blown away by this so far.
00:02:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, my thought as the game was unfolding, particularly in the second half, and then after the game, you know, we have kind of that extended walk where we take the elevator down from the press box. There's a long catwalk that all the media go along to get to another stairway that then goes down to the locker rooms in the press conference area for those who don't kind of understand what our postgame routine is. And I'm walking along that catwalk after the game and trying to think to myself if I could think of any game that I had covered during which it felt that the Packers' defense was this aggressive from start to finish. And I couldn't think of one. And I went back and looked at some of the film. The very first third down of the game for the Dallas Cowboys, Gannon put seven guys up on the line of scrimmage. and he sent all seven at the quarterback. Now, he didn't do that the rest of the game, but that set the tone for what Dak Prescott and the Cowboys were going to have to be prepared for because then you look at the vast majority of the second and third downs the rest of the game, the Packers had either seven or eight guys up on the line of scrimmage, and sometimes it was rushing four, sometimes it was rushing five. Sometimes it was rushing six and there was another play where he had seven on the line of scrimmage and he sent all seven again. But the point was on the very first third down, he sent everything at Dak Prescott and then the Cowboys had to be ready for anything and everything for the rest of the game. And as you said, then there are times where, you know, it's like Gannon just keeps hitting the button of, okay, I'm going to blitz this guy until they show that they're going to block him or that they're going to do something about it. Um, the aggression defensively from start to finish is, is what blew me away. And this was, I mean, we talked about it all last week, CD lamb, George Pickens, Jake Ferguson, you know, Dak Prescott and all of his accomplishments and 59 plus minutes into the game, they had seven points on the board. I mean, this was, this was the most impressive defensive performance of the season so far for the Packers. And, As I wrote an insider inbox on Monday morning, every game that we see now seems to prove that the Thursday night defensive breakdown against the Atlanta Falcons in the home opener at Lambeau Field is the exception and not the rule with this defense. Because other than that one game, and then of course maybe the fourth quarter when the penalties and crazy stuff happened in Minnesota, other than a couple of those types of blips on the radar... This defense has played really good football.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost makes it a shame what happened against Atlanta because I was looking this morning about statistics. I mean, Green Bay has clawed themselves back up to the middle of the pack and run defense despite that performance against B. John Robinson and Brian Robinson. That was over 200 rushing yards that they gave up that day. And yet, if you take that away, you can't, using the old Dom Capers-ism.
00:05:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, they all count.
00:05:17
Speaker 2: But the fact is that they rank so high in all these different categories. The only thing where Green Bay's defense is still trying to find its footing is situationally. Red zone, third downs, that sort of thing. But for the most part, what they did in this game to keep Dak Prescott uncomfortable, Javante Williams, I think that was a double-edged sort of proposition there. I think Dallas actually started to do some good things with Williams midway through that game. And then they completely abandoned the run at that exact time. He scores the touchdown. I saw that statistic. I think they threw 35 of the next 36 plays after he had his rushing touchdown. So there's that to factor into as well. But the fact is, is that despite it only ever being really a two score game from start to finish, it felt so much more spaced than that. Yeah. And then you were talking about when you're walking down, thinking about the game, how aggressive they were. I was walking down thinking to myself, I've never seen a safety, let alone an all-pro safety like Xavier McKinney in a three-point stance operating out of a three-tech before. I mean, it was just the looks and things that they threw at the Dallas Cowboys front. When you engage that many people individually early on, by the time you got to the second, third, fourth quarter, you didn't know where the pressure was coming from.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and From a statistical standpoint, so the Packers get two interceptions in this game, one from Evan Williams where he's kind of mugged up as a blitzer, and then he drops and Prescott never sees him, and Williams makes a great break on the ball in the red zone, gets the pick that keeps some points off the board there. The other interception, rookie Brandon Cisse gets his first NFL interception. CeeDee Lamp slips on his route, and Cisse makes the catch on the slant pass. Dallas ends up 5 out of 13 on third downs. And the Packers also stopped, I believe it was two fourth-down plays in the game as well. But the biggest thing, really, when you go back to what we were talking about last week, was minimizing the explosive plays. The Dallas Cowboys, for all of the high-poweredness of that offense, they had one completion in the game longer than 17 yards.
00:07:28
Speaker 2: Nuts.
00:07:29
Speaker 1: Crazy. Which is crazy when you think about what Prescott and company– normally do throughout the course of a contest. And I'm with you. It was never more than a two-score, technically never more than a two-possession lead for the Packers. 16 points was the biggest lead. But it felt way more comfortable than that because it just didn't seem like Dallas was ever really going to get anything going.
00:07:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, when you look at this thing, Michael, look at this. CeeDee Lamb was targeted 18 times. He had nine catches for 70 yards.
00:08:00
Speaker 1: Lamb, Lamb and Pickens were targeted. I believe it was 29 of the 29 of the 54 passes. 29 of them were to those two guys and they didn't, they, they had one catch longer than 17 yards.
00:08:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and I made this point inside our inbox as well. Uh, you know, when you think about, okay, you don't have Edger and Cooper, you still are without, uh, Micah Parsons, whom we learned this is not going to practice this week either. And then we're on the short week next week with Carolina. So you never know what happens there.
00:08:27
Speaker 1: Right.
00:08:28
Speaker 2: But they've had to do this without some of their name brand pass rushers, but yet they're still finding a way. You saw Isaiah McDuffie on blitzes. You saw Xavier McKinney, as I talked about. Evan Williams, Javon Bullard, they're sending cornerbacks. And then you also have moments like Cissé' s, which I thought was really important for that guy at this point of his career because, I mean, he's a strong-headed kid. you know, he's mature beyond his years, but for him to just do the right thing and be where you're supposed to be and have the ball end up in your hands and you make the play, that's what playing cornerback is like in the National Football League. You're not just going to get guys throwing things up to you. Sometimes it's going to be a CD lamb falling down and the ball being right in front of you. And Green Bay, to their credit, the one thing I think the Packers have done extremely well from week one to today is when they've gotten takeaways, more often than not, they've converted them into points. Not always touchdowns, but they've converted them into points. That was the difference in the first half, and having a 17-0 lead right out of the gate, it made this game feel like it was 34-0.
00:09:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, if there was a turning point, so to speak, in this game, it was right after Jordan Love throws the interception. Fortunately, Matthew Golden touched the Winters, the linebacker, down there after he got up and ran it back for a touchdown, but he was ruled down And then it was just a handful of snaps later that Evan Williams gets the interception to keep the Cowboys off the board. The game is still 7-0 at that point. And then when the Packers turn William's interception into a field goal to make it 10-0, it was a two-possession game the rest of the way. The Cowboys never had the ball back again, only down by one score from that point on. On the offensive side of the ball, lots of good and bad here.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: Not much in the middle.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, not much in the middle at all. Jordan Love was on the verge of an absolutely monster night. But unfortunately, Matthew Golden had a couple of potential touchdowns go through his hands. Christian Watson had a potential touchdown go through his hands. But even all that said, the Packers were nine of their first ten on third down, which has been one of the sore spots offensively all season long, has been the low conversion rate on third downs. but they were converting on third downs. Dallas' defenses struggled. We talked about that. They were bottom of the league third down defense and giving up explosive plays and all that, and the Packers took advantage of that to a certain extent. Didn't take advantage of it as fully as they could because of some of those plays that got away.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was funny. Okay, so I got the Wes Hodkowitz glass half full type approach to life, and obviously sometimes in the way I cover things. Here's, okay, let's again start with the positives here. Matthew Golden, six catches for 104 yards and a touchdown, 17.3 yards per catch. Christian Watson, three catches for 64 yards, 21.3 yards per catch. Those two guys together, 168 yards. receiving yards of Jordan Love's 276 passing yards they were exceptional you have this stretch now where both of these guys together 25 plus catches 500 plus receiving yards each and I believe it's three plus receiving touchdowns each that's never been that's never happened before here And they could have had it even bigger, even better in this game, right? So the first thing is you have to get the drops corrected for sure. And you have to get them corrected because this offense is relying so heavily on Golden and Watson right now. Jordan Love is relying so heavily on those two guys right now to move the football, to create points, to have big plays. But the way I also think about it is, These guys have been absolutely extraordinary despite the drops. And my goodness, if you cut those by half right now, we are talking about two all-pro caliber receivers here straight out of the gate. Everything that we have had in terms of the narrative and what we've talked about in these podcasts, these stories, these yearbooks, all these type of things... It's now right before our eyes. What these guys are doing, how impactful they're being, and honestly, how well Christian Watson's skill set lines up with Matthew Golden's skill set. And when you don't have Jaden Reed, you needed those two guys to be the big bucks in the room. And they're doing it, man.
00:12:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say a couple of things with regard to the drops because I'm not one who likes to make excuses for professional football players. And certainly the first one to Matthew Golden, the deep ball over the shoulder, you know, it's right there. You know, Love puts it right in the bread basket, as they say, and it slips through his hands. That's a really tough one. But I also want to say that the back shoulder on the near side end zone, That would have been an absolutely spectacular catch. Now, he had it, and he actually was bringing it into his body so close, and then somehow, I don't know if the skin of the ball was just a little slick or what.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: He knocked it out of his hands. He knocked it out of his own hands.
00:13:33
Speaker 1: And it was, that would have been a, yes, it goes as a drop. I get that. But that would have been a spectacular catch. That was not a routine play by any means. And on the one to Christian Watson in the end zone over the middle, I never got a good look at the replay, but I had multiple people in the live blog telling me that it looked like there was just the slightest deflection by the Dallas Cowboy defender. I can't remember exactly who it was, but somebody who was right in front of Watson and the ball might've, you know, grazed the fingertip. Now it didn't, it wasn't obvious. It didn't necessarily look that way, but I can tell you Wes, And Christian Watson is the last guy who's going to say, yeah, that ball was tipped. I couldn't catch it. I mean, he's still going to say he should catch it. But I don't care how close that ball gets to you. If there's any sort of deflection or change at all in the spin of the ball or anything, that becomes hard to catch. That is not easy. Now, we've seen them make those plays before. Like I say, and those guys are going to say they've got to make those plays. But to me, the last two that I'm talking about here, those are not, in my opinion, garden variety dropped passes. They're not. Um, so, and I think in a lot of ways that this is why there's, there's no reduction or questioning of the confidence in these two guys and what they can do just because of a pass here or there, you know, gets away from them. So I just wanted to clarify that because everybody's throwing out, you know, the Packers lead the league in drops and all this, and I'm not going to argue the statistics. I get it. But when you look at some of these individual plays, I mean, a garden variety receiver doesn't even come close to making that back shoulder catch that Matthew Golden almost made in the end zone. So I just want to keep, I just want people to keep that in perspective.
00:15:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also keep this in perspective too. If the Packers right now, the pace that they're on, Jordan Love's going to throw 640 passes right now on the season with this trajectory, how often they've been throwing the ball. Again, when you get targeted 13 times, you're not going to catch every single one of them. I think what the important thing was, was the conversation I know you talked about, a lot of people have mentioned it, conversation that Love and Golden have, the confidence that they have between each other, keep feeding me, keep doing that. What did that remind you of? I'll tell you what it reminded me of. Devontae Adams and the conversations he had with Aaron Rodgers many years ago. Keep giving me those chances. And I'm going to make it right.
00:16:03
Speaker 1: And eventually that relationship turned to Devontae Adams going to Aaron Rodgers saying, give me a better ball next time. And I will make the catch because that's how their relationship developed. And that may be what happens here as well.
00:16:15
Speaker 2: But the one thing, and it was like, and I'm glad you brought up the golden, the touchdown play, because that was one where it was like, you just wanted to see him to make it because that was going to be played on ESPN. That was going to be played on our highlight films.
00:16:29
Speaker 1: That was going to be such a phenomenal touchdown because- He waited and waited and waited like you're supposed to so that the defender, that's why it's called a back shoulder play, the defender doesn't know the ball is going to be whizzing past him. And you have to wait until the last second to spin your body around and get your hands on it and make the catch. And he did everything right and was so close. to securing that catch in the corner of the end zone, and then it just got away from you.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are the ones, again, that's going to be a high-level difficulty to make them, but if you can make them, that's what separates the really good receivers from the superstars. And I'll just throw in there, too, the ones you want to get back is the drop on the slant, the drop on the ones where it's in your hands, it's in the bucket. You have separation from the receiver. You've earned the right to catch that football clean based on how you've run your route, based on the way that your God-given talents are associated. It's when you're making those more competitive catches you've got to look for. All that being said, I just want to close on this point. And I had some Bears fans for whatever reason, because they don't do anything else, I guess, in their free time other than just find reasons to talk about the Packers. But I had Bears fans in my mentions talking about, you guys will always find excuses for Jordan Love. Watch that game. Watch the condensed version of the game. Watch the performance that Jordan Love had in that. Do not do anything else. Do not look at a box score. And then when it's over and you see a 74 passer rating... You will see why I said this game was, he was so much better in this game than the statistics would show. Wasn't perfect, but he was spectacular.
00:17:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. He was darn good. You mentioned the pace that Jordan Love is on in terms of how many pass attempts he could have here by the end of the season, and a lot of that is due to the continued struggles with the running game. We talked about And I wrote about, to a rather large extent, how this was supposed to be the game the Packers get their running game right because the Cowboys were coming in with the worst-ranked run defense in the league. This is where you've got to establish something on the ground, get it going. It didn't happen. The struggles are still there. And whether it was Marshawn Lloyd or Caleb Johnson or whoever, it didn't matter. There was no consistency at all with regard to the running game. Will that change this week? We shall see. Josh Jacobs is going to be back at practice on Wednesday. He's been removed from the commissioner's exempt list. Matt LaFleur not making any promises that Josh Jacobs will be ready to play on Sunday in Detroit, but certainly not ruling out that one good week of practice that Jacobs could be ready to go and be getting the ball against the Lions right away. So we'll see what unfolds there. And if the return of Josh Jacobs can provide a boost to a struggling ground game.
00:19:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Packers certainly need it right now, right? I mean, when you go into this game, I said this too. I mean, Pierre Strong was the Packers' best hand in the backfield in this matchup. And he did some great things, pass catching, did have a drop too. But, you know, as Green Bay has been trying to find ways to win on first and second down, they've had to resort to some of the short game stuff, to some of the flea flickers, some of the screens. And I thought Strong kind of helped out in that capacity. But the overall yards per carry, finding explosive runs, winning and getting four or five yards on first down, that hasn't been there yet this season. The one thing, and not to say I don't want to make any promises for Sunday and what's going to happen, but where Josh Jacobs is different from a lot of these other guys in these ramp-ups, right? Kevin Zeitler had to come in, he had to learn a playbook, and he's been doing that for the last three weeks, was not in a training camp. Josh Jacobs was. He had a little bit of a groin issue, but then work through that was cleared by the end of it. He's had a month and a month and a half now to still being able to work with the training staff, still able to work with the strength and condition coaches, just has not been able and been in the meetings, has not been able to go to practice, has not been able to obviously play in the games. But there have been moments in his career where Josh Jacobs hasn't practiced and yet still played in the games due to injury. It happened the past couple of years with the knee, some of the other things. So Um, it's not a position that he hasn't been in before. Um, this is going to be a big litmus test. If he is out there on Sunday, seeing what he's able to do in what green Bay can build on, because I really truly believe right now, if you can break just a couple big runs and I'm not talking about a 60 yard touchdown, I'm talking about 15, 16, 22 yards to the sideline. Right. That, I think, can be the confidence builder this whole offensive line needs, this offense needs, because in moderation, we saw it against Chicago. What small, successful opportunities can turn into and what that can mean for you if you can have that kind of positive affirmation in your head.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the other thing the Packers need in terms of just getting this running game settled down is not every play is going to be blocked the greatest. There's not going to be huge holes, but whatever crease there is for a running back to find, it's just getting the two or three yards that are there. And I think what we're seeing with the Packers running backs too often is instead of just sticking the head down and getting the two or three yards that are there, they try to do something else and make something else happen. And instead of a plus two or three, you end up with a minus two or three. And then that difference of the four to six yards on a given play is is what puts you behind the sticks and changes everything for the play caller and all of that. The negative runs, the minus twos and the minus threes are the ones that have just added up to too much. And hopefully Josh Jacobs can eliminate that because if those minus twos and threes start turning into plus twos and threes, even when they're not great plays, that's going to change things for Matt LeFleur as the play caller.
00:22:10
Speaker 2: And that's how you average 4.4 yards per carry in the NFL. You're not always getting five yards a carry every single time. Sometimes it is the ones and twos and threes that get balanced out with the tens and the explosive plays. So, yeah, it's a big moment here for Green Bay. Curious to see exactly what the offensive line looks like. This was the third straight game where Green Bay had the same starting five, but we do see Kevin Zeitler continue to ramp up. LaFleur was asked about him again on Monday, mentioned that, yeah, he's getting closer, he's feeling more comfortable in the scheme. Certainly that's a Pro Bowl veteran that the Packers have in their back pocket, in addition to the fact that Aaron Banks also is getting healthier as well. LaFleur mentioning that he looked as good as he's looked in a long time in practice last week, dealing with both the knee injury and also the toe.
00:22:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. We will see what evolves there. One last thing I want to touch on for this game, and I don't want to touch on it for very long, because... The issue is the penalties, and I've been saying for years, just make the safety rules reviewable. Roughing the passer is a safety rule. Make it reviewable. Get the call right. I've been saying it for a decade now. You said on your takeaway video what you thought about the penalties, so check that out as well, folks. I want to make one quick comment with regard to this taunting stuff, okay, because the Packers got burned twice in this game for taunting. And I know Matthew Golden said he was just, he was flexing to the crowd. The defender happened to be between him and the crowd. So the referee, the official who was over there took that as like he was taunting the guy that he just beat on the pass play. Tough break. And I have no reason to doubt that Golden was telling the truth there. But here's the thing that I would say, because we've, I mean, we've seen the segments on NFL Network. There are memos that have gone around. Teams have been told about all about this taunting stuff and how the league wants to crack down on it, that that the league wants there to be a lot more sportsmanship being shown out there on the field. So for me, my message would be, hey, if you want to celebrate. something, find a teammate and celebrate with your teammate. Because if you're doing that, then it's not about the opponent. You're not going to get flagged for any kind of a taunting. It's like when the guys get the takeaway and they all get together and run down to the end zone. If you're going to celebrate, do it with your teammates. Don't celebrate by yourself and don't celebrate anywhere near an opponent. And then you don't have to worry about this stuff. To me, that needs to be the message because these types of penalties are affecting the Not just the Packers, affecting a lot of games around the NFL right now.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: You know, force, I believe the incompletion on that play. There also was a holding penalty on the play. So it actually ended up just getting negated because of that.
00:25:02
Speaker 1: Right. It ended up being the offsetting penalties and they got another crack at the third down because of the offsetting.
00:25:07
Speaker 2: Which they converted.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:25:09
Speaker 2: So it's like, and now Green Bay was able to eventually get the stop. But be that as it may, this is the difficulty that you're faced with with the National Football League right now. Officials are not catching the stuff that what I consider to be the old school, like this is what a referee is there to do. You know, a defensive pass interference, a holding penalty, roughing the passer on Jordan Love. Packers down 6-0 in that category right now. The stuff in which the game is being played, you're seeing officials having a harder and harder time trying to actually get that. What are they getting? Why are flags being thrown? Why are penalties up? because it's all the obvious stuff that when they don't have to track the factual 11 guys on the field anymore, and you have six guys that are all focused on exactly where the ball is, that's getting flagged. Orin Deneye's situation was, I think, right by the ref too. So this is the challenge that teams are facing. And I get it. It is an emotional game. You and I have been at joint practices. We hear what is said between these guys and how there is so much you know, machismo, like just like ego, everything is involved in there because you put yourself out there.
00:26:12
Speaker 1: It's a high intensity environment all the time. And I don't, I don't deny that at all. That is definitely part of what's going on.
00:26:18
Speaker 2: But someplace it comes back to discipline. And I'm not saying you have to do the Barry Sanders, Jordy Nelson thing of just literally going and handing the ref the ball and going back to the huddle. Yeah. But you got to contain it. Yeah. Because otherwise it's going to, like those type of penalties, it wipes out all the good things you did.
00:26:35
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:36
Speaker 2: Matthew Golden made one heck of a play and was able to extend that downfield on that catch. You know, the Packers get that defensive stop. That's so hard. It's so hard to play defense in the National Football League. Ask Carl Brooks. Ask Evan Williams. Ask Lucas Van Ness, I mean, about those calls and how difficult it is to try to attack a quarterback in this league.
00:26:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:26:54
Speaker 2: In the instances where you do get the stops, where you do get off the field, you got to stay there.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. We'll run a little bit behind, so we've got to pay some bills right away here and hear a quick word from our sponsors. Sirius XM NFL Radio delivers hard-hitting analysis and up-to-the-minute NFL news that true football fanatics need 24-7, 365. Did you know Lambeau Field is just one of our state's many wonders? Start making unforgettable memories on your next vacation. Discover the Apostle Islands and more at TravelWisconsin.com slash wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted. All right, Wes, quick glance at the NFC North. Vikings and Lions were off last week, so Minnesota still on top of the division at 5-0. The Lions actually on the bottom of the division at 3-2, having not played. The Bears beat the Falcons and the Packers beat the Cowboys, so both the Packers and the Bears now tied for second place at 4-2 in the division. I think there's... There's a lot to be said for the NFC North and the AFC North to be through week six. Not everybody has played six games, but to be through week six and have everybody in your division above 500. Because when you look at the NFC, the rest of the NFC, so everybody in the NFC North is above 500. The rest of the NFC, only the first place team in the other three divisions is above 500. Everybody else in those divisions is is 500 or below. Some of this is going to even out. Six games in, we've got a long way to go here. But the way this has evolved early on, I think we're seeing that the NFC North is a pretty darn... competitive bunch because when NFC North teams have gone outside the division, they've fared pretty well.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't get what the hate has been on the North in recent years. I understood it like when Detroit really struggled, when Chicago went through some lean years and Minnesota kind of was always in this weird bumpy patch where They'd be super competitive one year and then not another. That you'd have these teams that end up losing double-digit games and then they just kind of people forget about it. But the North has been so competitive here the last few years, while a division like the West has actually had teams like the Rams just randomly one year were a 12-loss team. The Cardinals have struggled for years now. But yet they still kind of get that type of hype. But all that being said, as it comes back to the actual X's and O's and then us charting out a season to see, okay, what is the path to the playoffs? Well, the fact that the West has fallen behind the way that they have, the fact that the Rams are dealing with this number of injuries now, Devontae Adams collected into that, it just does show you pick up the ball. wins and see what all happens at the end of the season because now the Rams find themselves, not only are they in a deep hole here trying to catch up to the 49ers, they're now suddenly finding themselves in a deep hole in the NFC and how hyper-competitive it's been for that seventh seed. You're needing double-digit wins or you're at least needing to not have eight losses and to really be able to grab onto that.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting what's evolving elsewhere because the Seattle Seahawks, the defending Super Bowl champs, are 3-3. The 2026 Super Team, the LA Rams, are 2-4. And as you said, dealing with a ton of injuries. The San Francisco 49ers are dealing with a ton of injuries too, and they're 6-0. They are clearly the class of the NFC. I know the Vikings are still undefeated, but they have not played the schedule that the San Francisco 49ers have. I give the Niners a lot of credit for what they've done. And I mean, and with some of this, who knows where it's headed, right? Because that Atlanta Falcons team that came into Lambeau Field on that Thursday and looked like world beaters, suddenly they've hit the skids and they're two and four. They were, I mean, they played three quarters of absolutely terrible football against the Bears. And, you know, they had a nice fourth quarter rally to make it interesting there. at the end where they, they had a chance, but, but man, they were at home. And I mean, the place was 60% Chicago fans in, in the dome in Atlanta, but they were at home and just was like, they didn't even show up until the fourth quarter. So the Falcons are a hard team to figure out.
00:31:09
Speaker 2: I don't know what the game plan was for the Falcons in that one. Like, for example, here, like, cause I was, I was, I watched clips of it and I watched parts of the game, but then I went back and look at the box square afterwards. So like, get this, They go three and out on the first possession, but Bijan Robinson had a six-yard carry on first down. Now they had a negative yardage play on second down, but second series, Penix to Drake London, five yards, then a negative yardage play on second down. Third series, Bijan Robinson, nine-yard run to start things off. The fact that Bijan Robinson in this game only touched the ball, well, he had a couple catches. He only carried the ball nine times for 61 yards. Brian Robinson was a complete non-factor. They lost this game and fell behind. So I guess they felt like they needed to pass a little bit more, but to finish with only 12 carries for 63 yards, but average over five yards per carry and still get walked out of the building like they did against the bears. Very, very odd. And by the way, credit to Chicago though, came out from the get go, did Ben Johnson ball, put points on the board and use that leverage.
00:32:03
Speaker 1: The bears got Caleb Williams back and they took, they took control of that game from the beginning. I mean, Williams completed his first like 12 passes in a row and, and they were rolling on offense. But to your point about the Falcons, I mean, It's one of those games that just got away from them because at halftime, the time of possession was like 22 minutes to eight minutes. They only had the ball for eight minutes in the first half. And then you're going into a second half down by multiple scores and trying to figure out, okay, how do we, it's not about the game plan anymore at that point. It's like, how do you get back into the game and give yourself a chance? So, but yeah, I mean this, this NFC North and here, you know, on our next show, we're going to be previewing Packers against the Lions. The Packers are four and two, the Lions are three and two. They're going to go head to head here. And, you know, while the Vikings are sitting at 5-0 and the Bears are at 4-2, I mean, any loss in this division in the NFC North can be really painful because this division... is so competitive and, uh, and we'll talk about it on our next show, but man, Sunday at Ford field is going to be a, it's going to be a big clash.
00:33:08
Speaker 2: And ask the bears this because it was those losses in the division. Yes, they won the division with the losing record. Um, but the fact was, is that that hurt them then the standings, the seating for the playoffs. And, and it just, it's tough, man. Like it is difficult to work out of these holes. And, you know, I think there was a lot of years. I don't think it was so much in the building because Mike McCarthy and especially Matt LaFleur, they, they made it quite clear. It's winning the North. It's running the North. but I think in a lot of times fans just looked at it as, okay, we are predestined to win the division. So we're hosting. Is it just that we're going to host in the wild card or are we going to host in the divisional round? We should host in the division around. We should have the buy. And then what ends up happening is like, no, you start seeing how difficult it is to actually claim those division titles. Um, especially when a division like the North has been as competitive as it's been now for the past few years. Yeah.
00:33:52
Speaker 1: And, uh, um, it's, and for the teams, you know, whether it's when the year the Vikings rise up and win the division or the bears rise up and win the division, um, or the Lions do it, you know, the same team doesn't win the NFC North in back-to-back years very often. It's certainly not anymore. And, you know, some of those streaks the Packers have had in the past of those division titles, like you say, it sort of gets fans thinking, okay, this is just what the Packers are going to do. It's not like that in the North anymore. It's super competitive.
00:34:21
Speaker 2: And it's not like the Packers were just beating all these, like, you know, jabroni teams. I mean, like Matthew Stafford was a lot to deal with. The Chicago Bears, they had to beat them to go to a Super Bowl, right? In the year in which they won the North. Minnesota, again, as I was saying, they've had years, the Kirk Cousin years, where they were super competitive since Kevin O'Connell's been there. They've been, you know, every single year, you know you're going to have a tough out against them. Mike Zimmer went to Minnesota because they wanted him to run his defense against Aaron Rodgers. So, like, it's not easy to do this thing. But the fact is, is Green Bay at that time was just head and shoulders above everybody else. And right now, in this Jordan Love era, they are trying to establish themselves as that team once again.
00:35:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about it. Well, with that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team all week long on Packers.com. For Wes, I'm Mike. Thank you for tuning in.
00:35:11
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers.com. I am Mike Spofford, joined, as always, by my trusted colleague, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from the Pottawatomie Sportsbook studio inside the walls of Lambeau Field to review, Wes, a 23-13 Green Bay Packers Sunday night football victory over the Dallas Cowboys. And in the discussion of this game, it must start with Green Bay's defense because Jonathan Gannon's crew was nothing short of flying around out there.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Flying around, hunting around, just persistent, tenacious, and it was from the first whistle of the game until the very end. I think, you know, I almost want to turn this question back to you because I talked about this in Insider Inbox for Tuesday's column. Dom Capers had some great defenses during my time here. I did not cover the Super Bowl 45 team. You did. Mike Pettin had a fair amount of success here. I think you look at what Jeff Halfley did the past two seasons, a very creative, flexible, versatile defense that adjusted. In my time, I have never seen this many free runners to a quarterback. And I'm talking untouched here. It's not just, okay, there was a running back to beat. There was a pass protector to beat. There was a chip to beat. The way that Jonathan Gannon has dialed this up, and it was when Edren Cooper was available, and now as we've seen when Edren Cooper is not available, he's using his inside linebackers, his safeties, all these guys together to generate this amount of pressure. the thing I actually enjoyed the most is he has these moments too, where he just spams blitzes. Yeah. In the fourth quarter, there was a, just like with Evan Williams a week earlier, there was a moment where he just, just kept sending Javon Bullard over and over again. Who cares? You know, like it is, he has stressed over and over again. It is about players, not about the plays, but his confidence and his players to fulfill his scheme and to, to get to the quarterback, to generate pressure and ultimately generate takeaways is, I've just been blown away by this so far.
00:02:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, my thought as the game was unfolding, particularly in the second half, and then after the game, you know, we have kind of that extended walk where we take the elevator down from the press box. There's a long catwalk that all the media go along to get to another stairway that then goes down to the locker rooms in the press conference area for those who don't kind of understand what our postgame routine is. And I'm walking along that catwalk after the game and trying to think to myself if I could think of any game that I had covered during which it felt that the Packers' defense was this aggressive from start to finish. And I couldn't think of one. And I went back and looked at some of the film. The very first third down of the game for the Dallas Cowboys, Gannon put seven guys up on the line of scrimmage. and he sent all seven at the quarterback. Now, he didn't do that the rest of the game, but that set the tone for what Dak Prescott and the Cowboys were going to have to be prepared for because then you look at the vast majority of the second and third downs the rest of the game, the Packers had either seven or eight guys up on the line of scrimmage, and sometimes it was rushing four, sometimes it was rushing five. Sometimes it was rushing six and there was another play where he had seven on the line of scrimmage and he sent all seven again. But the point was on the very first third down, he sent everything at Dak Prescott and then the Cowboys had to be ready for anything and everything for the rest of the game. And as you said, then there are times where, you know, it's like Gannon just keeps hitting the button of, okay, I'm going to blitz this guy until they show that they're going to block him or that they're going to do something about it. Um, the aggression defensively from start to finish is, is what blew me away. And this was, I mean, we talked about it all last week, CD lamb, George Pickens, Jake Ferguson, you know, Dak Prescott and all of his accomplishments and 59 plus minutes into the game, they had seven points on the board. I mean, this was, this was the most impressive defensive performance of the season so far for the Packers. And, As I wrote an insider inbox on Monday morning, every game that we see now seems to prove that the Thursday night defensive breakdown against the Atlanta Falcons in the home opener at Lambeau Field is the exception and not the rule with this defense. Because other than that one game, and then of course maybe the fourth quarter when the penalties and crazy stuff happened in Minnesota, other than a couple of those types of blips on the radar... This defense has played really good football.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost makes it a shame what happened against Atlanta because I was looking this morning about statistics. I mean, Green Bay has clawed themselves back up to the middle of the pack and run defense despite that performance against B. John Robinson and Brian Robinson. That was over 200 rushing yards that they gave up that day. And yet, if you take that away, you can't, using the old Dom Capers-ism.
00:05:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, they all count.
00:05:17
Speaker 2: But the fact is that they rank so high in all these different categories. The only thing where Green Bay's defense is still trying to find its footing is situationally. Red zone, third downs, that sort of thing. But for the most part, what they did in this game to keep Dak Prescott uncomfortable, Javante Williams, I think that was a double-edged sort of proposition there. I think Dallas actually started to do some good things with Williams midway through that game. And then they completely abandoned the run at that exact time. He scores the touchdown. I saw that statistic. I think they threw 35 of the next 36 plays after he had his rushing touchdown. So there's that to factor into as well. But the fact is, is that despite it only ever being really a two score game from start to finish, it felt so much more spaced than that. Yeah. And then you were talking about when you're walking down, thinking about the game, how aggressive they were. I was walking down thinking to myself, I've never seen a safety, let alone an all-pro safety like Xavier McKinney in a three-point stance operating out of a three-tech before. I mean, it was just the looks and things that they threw at the Dallas Cowboys front. When you engage that many people individually early on, by the time you got to the second, third, fourth quarter, you didn't know where the pressure was coming from.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and From a statistical standpoint, so the Packers get two interceptions in this game, one from Evan Williams where he's kind of mugged up as a blitzer, and then he drops and Prescott never sees him, and Williams makes a great break on the ball in the red zone, gets the pick that keeps some points off the board there. The other interception, rookie Brandon Cisse gets his first NFL interception. CeeDee Lamp slips on his route, and Cisse makes the catch on the slant pass. Dallas ends up 5 out of 13 on third downs. And the Packers also stopped, I believe it was two fourth-down plays in the game as well. But the biggest thing, really, when you go back to what we were talking about last week, was minimizing the explosive plays. The Dallas Cowboys, for all of the high-poweredness of that offense, they had one completion in the game longer than 17 yards.
00:07:28
Speaker 2: Nuts.
00:07:29
Speaker 1: Crazy. Which is crazy when you think about what Prescott and company– normally do throughout the course of a contest. And I'm with you. It was never more than a two-score, technically never more than a two-possession lead for the Packers. 16 points was the biggest lead. But it felt way more comfortable than that because it just didn't seem like Dallas was ever really going to get anything going.
00:07:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, when you look at this thing, Michael, look at this. CeeDee Lamb was targeted 18 times. He had nine catches for 70 yards.
00:08:00
Speaker 1: Lamb, Lamb and Pickens were targeted. I believe it was 29 of the 29 of the 54 passes. 29 of them were to those two guys and they didn't, they, they had one catch longer than 17 yards.
00:08:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and I made this point inside our inbox as well. Uh, you know, when you think about, okay, you don't have Edger and Cooper, you still are without, uh, Micah Parsons, whom we learned this is not going to practice this week either. And then we're on the short week next week with Carolina. So you never know what happens there.
00:08:27
Speaker 1: Right.
00:08:28
Speaker 2: But they've had to do this without some of their name brand pass rushers, but yet they're still finding a way. You saw Isaiah McDuffie on blitzes. You saw Xavier McKinney, as I talked about. Evan Williams, Javon Bullard, they're sending cornerbacks. And then you also have moments like Cissé' s, which I thought was really important for that guy at this point of his career because, I mean, he's a strong-headed kid. you know, he's mature beyond his years, but for him to just do the right thing and be where you're supposed to be and have the ball end up in your hands and you make the play, that's what playing cornerback is like in the National Football League. You're not just going to get guys throwing things up to you. Sometimes it's going to be a CD lamb falling down and the ball being right in front of you. And Green Bay, to their credit, the one thing I think the Packers have done extremely well from week one to today is when they've gotten takeaways, more often than not, they've converted them into points. Not always touchdowns, but they've converted them into points. That was the difference in the first half, and having a 17-0 lead right out of the gate, it made this game feel like it was 34-0.
00:09:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, if there was a turning point, so to speak, in this game, it was right after Jordan Love throws the interception. Fortunately, Matthew Golden touched the Winters, the linebacker, down there after he got up and ran it back for a touchdown, but he was ruled down And then it was just a handful of snaps later that Evan Williams gets the interception to keep the Cowboys off the board. The game is still 7-0 at that point. And then when the Packers turn William's interception into a field goal to make it 10-0, it was a two-possession game the rest of the way. The Cowboys never had the ball back again, only down by one score from that point on. On the offensive side of the ball, lots of good and bad here.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: Not much in the middle.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, not much in the middle at all. Jordan Love was on the verge of an absolutely monster night. But unfortunately, Matthew Golden had a couple of potential touchdowns go through his hands. Christian Watson had a potential touchdown go through his hands. But even all that said, the Packers were nine of their first ten on third down, which has been one of the sore spots offensively all season long, has been the low conversion rate on third downs. but they were converting on third downs. Dallas' defenses struggled. We talked about that. They were bottom of the league third down defense and giving up explosive plays and all that, and the Packers took advantage of that to a certain extent. Didn't take advantage of it as fully as they could because of some of those plays that got away.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was funny. Okay, so I got the Wes Hodkowitz glass half full type approach to life, and obviously sometimes in the way I cover things. Here's, okay, let's again start with the positives here. Matthew Golden, six catches for 104 yards and a touchdown, 17.3 yards per catch. Christian Watson, three catches for 64 yards, 21.3 yards per catch. Those two guys together, 168 yards. receiving yards of Jordan Love's 276 passing yards they were exceptional you have this stretch now where both of these guys together 25 plus catches 500 plus receiving yards each and I believe it's three plus receiving touchdowns each that's never been that's never happened before here And they could have had it even bigger, even better in this game, right? So the first thing is you have to get the drops corrected for sure. And you have to get them corrected because this offense is relying so heavily on Golden and Watson right now. Jordan Love is relying so heavily on those two guys right now to move the football, to create points, to have big plays. But the way I also think about it is, These guys have been absolutely extraordinary despite the drops. And my goodness, if you cut those by half right now, we are talking about two all-pro caliber receivers here straight out of the gate. Everything that we have had in terms of the narrative and what we've talked about in these podcasts, these stories, these yearbooks, all these type of things... It's now right before our eyes. What these guys are doing, how impactful they're being, and honestly, how well Christian Watson's skill set lines up with Matthew Golden's skill set. And when you don't have Jaden Reed, you needed those two guys to be the big bucks in the room. And they're doing it, man.
00:12:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say a couple of things with regard to the drops because I'm not one who likes to make excuses for professional football players. And certainly the first one to Matthew Golden, the deep ball over the shoulder, you know, it's right there. You know, Love puts it right in the bread basket, as they say, and it slips through his hands. That's a really tough one. But I also want to say that the back shoulder on the near side end zone, That would have been an absolutely spectacular catch. Now, he had it, and he actually was bringing it into his body so close, and then somehow, I don't know if the skin of the ball was just a little slick or what.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: He knocked it out of his hands. He knocked it out of his own hands.
00:13:33
Speaker 1: And it was, that would have been a, yes, it goes as a drop. I get that. But that would have been a spectacular catch. That was not a routine play by any means. And on the one to Christian Watson in the end zone over the middle, I never got a good look at the replay, but I had multiple people in the live blog telling me that it looked like there was just the slightest deflection by the Dallas Cowboy defender. I can't remember exactly who it was, but somebody who was right in front of Watson and the ball might've, you know, grazed the fingertip. Now it didn't, it wasn't obvious. It didn't necessarily look that way, but I can tell you Wes, And Christian Watson is the last guy who's going to say, yeah, that ball was tipped. I couldn't catch it. I mean, he's still going to say he should catch it. But I don't care how close that ball gets to you. If there's any sort of deflection or change at all in the spin of the ball or anything, that becomes hard to catch. That is not easy. Now, we've seen them make those plays before. Like I say, and those guys are going to say they've got to make those plays. But to me, the last two that I'm talking about here, those are not, in my opinion, garden variety dropped passes. They're not. Um, so, and I think in a lot of ways that this is why there's, there's no reduction or questioning of the confidence in these two guys and what they can do just because of a pass here or there, you know, gets away from them. So I just wanted to clarify that because everybody's throwing out, you know, the Packers lead the league in drops and all this, and I'm not going to argue the statistics. I get it. But when you look at some of these individual plays, I mean, a garden variety receiver doesn't even come close to making that back shoulder catch that Matthew Golden almost made in the end zone. So I just want to keep, I just want people to keep that in perspective.
00:15:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also keep this in perspective too. If the Packers right now, the pace that they're on, Jordan Love's going to throw 640 passes right now on the season with this trajectory, how often they've been throwing the ball. Again, when you get targeted 13 times, you're not going to catch every single one of them. I think what the important thing was, was the conversation I know you talked about, a lot of people have mentioned it, conversation that Love and Golden have, the confidence that they have between each other, keep feeding me, keep doing that. What did that remind you of? I'll tell you what it reminded me of. Devontae Adams and the conversations he had with Aaron Rodgers many years ago. Keep giving me those chances. And I'm going to make it right.
00:16:03
Speaker 1: And eventually that relationship turned to Devontae Adams going to Aaron Rodgers saying, give me a better ball next time. And I will make the catch because that's how their relationship developed. And that may be what happens here as well.
00:16:15
Speaker 2: But the one thing, and it was like, and I'm glad you brought up the golden, the touchdown play, because that was one where it was like, you just wanted to see him to make it because that was going to be played on ESPN. That was going to be played on our highlight films.
00:16:29
Speaker 1: That was going to be such a phenomenal touchdown because- He waited and waited and waited like you're supposed to so that the defender, that's why it's called a back shoulder play, the defender doesn't know the ball is going to be whizzing past him. And you have to wait until the last second to spin your body around and get your hands on it and make the catch. And he did everything right and was so close. to securing that catch in the corner of the end zone, and then it just got away from you.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are the ones, again, that's going to be a high-level difficulty to make them, but if you can make them, that's what separates the really good receivers from the superstars. And I'll just throw in there, too, the ones you want to get back is the drop on the slant, the drop on the ones where it's in your hands, it's in the bucket. You have separation from the receiver. You've earned the right to catch that football clean based on how you've run your route, based on the way that your God-given talents are associated. It's when you're making those more competitive catches you've got to look for. All that being said, I just want to close on this point. And I had some Bears fans for whatever reason, because they don't do anything else, I guess, in their free time other than just find reasons to talk about the Packers. But I had Bears fans in my mentions talking about, you guys will always find excuses for Jordan Love. Watch that game. Watch the condensed version of the game. Watch the performance that Jordan Love had in that. Do not do anything else. Do not look at a box score. And then when it's over and you see a 74 passer rating... You will see why I said this game was, he was so much better in this game than the statistics would show. Wasn't perfect, but he was spectacular.
00:17:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. He was darn good. You mentioned the pace that Jordan Love is on in terms of how many pass attempts he could have here by the end of the season, and a lot of that is due to the continued struggles with the running game. We talked about And I wrote about, to a rather large extent, how this was supposed to be the game the Packers get their running game right because the Cowboys were coming in with the worst-ranked run defense in the league. This is where you've got to establish something on the ground, get it going. It didn't happen. The struggles are still there. And whether it was Marshawn Lloyd or Caleb Johnson or whoever, it didn't matter. There was no consistency at all with regard to the running game. Will that change this week? We shall see. Josh Jacobs is going to be back at practice on Wednesday. He's been removed from the commissioner's exempt list. Matt LaFleur not making any promises that Josh Jacobs will be ready to play on Sunday in Detroit, but certainly not ruling out that one good week of practice that Jacobs could be ready to go and be getting the ball against the Lions right away. So we'll see what unfolds there. And if the return of Josh Jacobs can provide a boost to a struggling ground game.
00:19:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Packers certainly need it right now, right? I mean, when you go into this game, I said this too. I mean, Pierre Strong was the Packers' best hand in the backfield in this matchup. And he did some great things, pass catching, did have a drop too. But, you know, as Green Bay has been trying to find ways to win on first and second down, they've had to resort to some of the short game stuff, to some of the flea flickers, some of the screens. And I thought Strong kind of helped out in that capacity. But the overall yards per carry, finding explosive runs, winning and getting four or five yards on first down, that hasn't been there yet this season. The one thing, and not to say I don't want to make any promises for Sunday and what's going to happen, but where Josh Jacobs is different from a lot of these other guys in these ramp-ups, right? Kevin Zeitler had to come in, he had to learn a playbook, and he's been doing that for the last three weeks, was not in a training camp. Josh Jacobs was. He had a little bit of a groin issue, but then work through that was cleared by the end of it. He's had a month and a month and a half now to still being able to work with the training staff, still able to work with the strength and condition coaches, just has not been able and been in the meetings, has not been able to go to practice, has not been able to obviously play in the games. But there have been moments in his career where Josh Jacobs hasn't practiced and yet still played in the games due to injury. It happened the past couple of years with the knee, some of the other things. So Um, it's not a position that he hasn't been in before. Um, this is going to be a big litmus test. If he is out there on Sunday, seeing what he's able to do in what green Bay can build on, because I really truly believe right now, if you can break just a couple big runs and I'm not talking about a 60 yard touchdown, I'm talking about 15, 16, 22 yards to the sideline. Right. That, I think, can be the confidence builder this whole offensive line needs, this offense needs, because in moderation, we saw it against Chicago. What small, successful opportunities can turn into and what that can mean for you if you can have that kind of positive affirmation in your head.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the other thing the Packers need in terms of just getting this running game settled down is not every play is going to be blocked the greatest. There's not going to be huge holes, but whatever crease there is for a running back to find, it's just getting the two or three yards that are there. And I think what we're seeing with the Packers running backs too often is instead of just sticking the head down and getting the two or three yards that are there, they try to do something else and make something else happen. And instead of a plus two or three, you end up with a minus two or three. And then that difference of the four to six yards on a given play is is what puts you behind the sticks and changes everything for the play caller and all of that. The negative runs, the minus twos and the minus threes are the ones that have just added up to too much. And hopefully Josh Jacobs can eliminate that because if those minus twos and threes start turning into plus twos and threes, even when they're not great plays, that's going to change things for Matt LeFleur as the play caller.
00:22:10
Speaker 2: And that's how you average 4.4 yards per carry in the NFL. You're not always getting five yards a carry every single time. Sometimes it is the ones and twos and threes that get balanced out with the tens and the explosive plays. So, yeah, it's a big moment here for Green Bay. Curious to see exactly what the offensive line looks like. This was the third straight game where Green Bay had the same starting five, but we do see Kevin Zeitler continue to ramp up. LaFleur was asked about him again on Monday, mentioned that, yeah, he's getting closer, he's feeling more comfortable in the scheme. Certainly that's a Pro Bowl veteran that the Packers have in their back pocket, in addition to the fact that Aaron Banks also is getting healthier as well. LaFleur mentioning that he looked as good as he's looked in a long time in practice last week, dealing with both the knee injury and also the toe.
00:22:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. We will see what evolves there. One last thing I want to touch on for this game, and I don't want to touch on it for very long, because... The issue is the penalties, and I've been saying for years, just make the safety rules reviewable. Roughing the passer is a safety rule. Make it reviewable. Get the call right. I've been saying it for a decade now. You said on your takeaway video what you thought about the penalties, so check that out as well, folks. I want to make one quick comment with regard to this taunting stuff, okay, because the Packers got burned twice in this game for taunting. And I know Matthew Golden said he was just, he was flexing to the crowd. The defender happened to be between him and the crowd. So the referee, the official who was over there took that as like he was taunting the guy that he just beat on the pass play. Tough break. And I have no reason to doubt that Golden was telling the truth there. But here's the thing that I would say, because we've, I mean, we've seen the segments on NFL Network. There are memos that have gone around. Teams have been told about all about this taunting stuff and how the league wants to crack down on it, that that the league wants there to be a lot more sportsmanship being shown out there on the field. So for me, my message would be, hey, if you want to celebrate. something, find a teammate and celebrate with your teammate. Because if you're doing that, then it's not about the opponent. You're not going to get flagged for any kind of a taunting. It's like when the guys get the takeaway and they all get together and run down to the end zone. If you're going to celebrate, do it with your teammates. Don't celebrate by yourself and don't celebrate anywhere near an opponent. And then you don't have to worry about this stuff. To me, that needs to be the message because these types of penalties are affecting the Not just the Packers, affecting a lot of games around the NFL right now.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: You know, force, I believe the incompletion on that play. There also was a holding penalty on the play. So it actually ended up just getting negated because of that.
00:25:02
Speaker 1: Right. It ended up being the offsetting penalties and they got another crack at the third down because of the offsetting.
00:25:07
Speaker 2: Which they converted.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:25:09
Speaker 2: So it's like, and now Green Bay was able to eventually get the stop. But be that as it may, this is the difficulty that you're faced with with the National Football League right now. Officials are not catching the stuff that what I consider to be the old school, like this is what a referee is there to do. You know, a defensive pass interference, a holding penalty, roughing the passer on Jordan Love. Packers down 6-0 in that category right now. The stuff in which the game is being played, you're seeing officials having a harder and harder time trying to actually get that. What are they getting? Why are flags being thrown? Why are penalties up? because it's all the obvious stuff that when they don't have to track the factual 11 guys on the field anymore, and you have six guys that are all focused on exactly where the ball is, that's getting flagged. Orin Deneye's situation was, I think, right by the ref too. So this is the challenge that teams are facing. And I get it. It is an emotional game. You and I have been at joint practices. We hear what is said between these guys and how there is so much you know, machismo, like just like ego, everything is involved in there because you put yourself out there.
00:26:12
Speaker 1: It's a high intensity environment all the time. And I don't, I don't deny that at all. That is definitely part of what's going on.
00:26:18
Speaker 2: But someplace it comes back to discipline. And I'm not saying you have to do the Barry Sanders, Jordy Nelson thing of just literally going and handing the ref the ball and going back to the huddle. Yeah. But you got to contain it. Yeah. Because otherwise it's going to, like those type of penalties, it wipes out all the good things you did.
00:26:35
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:36
Speaker 2: Matthew Golden made one heck of a play and was able to extend that downfield on that catch. You know, the Packers get that defensive stop. That's so hard. It's so hard to play defense in the National Football League. Ask Carl Brooks. Ask Evan Williams. Ask Lucas Van Ness, I mean, about those calls and how difficult it is to try to attack a quarterback in this league.
00:26:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:26:54
Speaker 2: In the instances where you do get the stops, where you do get off the field, you got to stay there.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. We'll run a little bit behind, so we've got to pay some bills right away here and hear a quick word from our sponsors. Sirius XM NFL Radio delivers hard-hitting analysis and up-to-the-minute NFL news that true football fanatics need 24-7, 365. Did you know Lambeau Field is just one of our state's many wonders? Start making unforgettable memories on your next vacation. Discover the Apostle Islands and more at TravelWisconsin.com slash wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted. All right, Wes, quick glance at the NFC North. Vikings and Lions were off last week, so Minnesota still on top of the division at 5-0. The Lions actually on the bottom of the division at 3-2, having not played. The Bears beat the Falcons and the Packers beat the Cowboys, so both the Packers and the Bears now tied for second place at 4-2 in the division. I think there's... There's a lot to be said for the NFC North and the AFC North to be through week six. Not everybody has played six games, but to be through week six and have everybody in your division above 500. Because when you look at the NFC, the rest of the NFC, so everybody in the NFC North is above 500. The rest of the NFC, only the first place team in the other three divisions is above 500. Everybody else in those divisions is is 500 or below. Some of this is going to even out. Six games in, we've got a long way to go here. But the way this has evolved early on, I think we're seeing that the NFC North is a pretty darn... competitive bunch because when NFC North teams have gone outside the division, they've fared pretty well.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't get what the hate has been on the North in recent years. I understood it like when Detroit really struggled, when Chicago went through some lean years and Minnesota kind of was always in this weird bumpy patch where They'd be super competitive one year and then not another. That you'd have these teams that end up losing double-digit games and then they just kind of people forget about it. But the North has been so competitive here the last few years, while a division like the West has actually had teams like the Rams just randomly one year were a 12-loss team. The Cardinals have struggled for years now. But yet they still kind of get that type of hype. But all that being said, as it comes back to the actual X's and O's and then us charting out a season to see, okay, what is the path to the playoffs? Well, the fact that the West has fallen behind the way that they have, the fact that the Rams are dealing with this number of injuries now, Devontae Adams collected into that, it just does show you pick up the ball. wins and see what all happens at the end of the season because now the Rams find themselves, not only are they in a deep hole here trying to catch up to the 49ers, they're now suddenly finding themselves in a deep hole in the NFC and how hyper-competitive it's been for that seventh seed. You're needing double-digit wins or you're at least needing to not have eight losses and to really be able to grab onto that.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting what's evolving elsewhere because the Seattle Seahawks, the defending Super Bowl champs, are 3-3. The 2026 Super Team, the LA Rams, are 2-4. And as you said, dealing with a ton of injuries. The San Francisco 49ers are dealing with a ton of injuries too, and they're 6-0. They are clearly the class of the NFC. I know the Vikings are still undefeated, but they have not played the schedule that the San Francisco 49ers have. I give the Niners a lot of credit for what they've done. And I mean, and with some of this, who knows where it's headed, right? Because that Atlanta Falcons team that came into Lambeau Field on that Thursday and looked like world beaters, suddenly they've hit the skids and they're two and four. They were, I mean, they played three quarters of absolutely terrible football against the Bears. And, you know, they had a nice fourth quarter rally to make it interesting there. at the end where they, they had a chance, but, but man, they were at home. And I mean, the place was 60% Chicago fans in, in the dome in Atlanta, but they were at home and just was like, they didn't even show up until the fourth quarter. So the Falcons are a hard team to figure out.
00:31:09
Speaker 2: I don't know what the game plan was for the Falcons in that one. Like, for example, here, like, cause I was, I was, I watched clips of it and I watched parts of the game, but then I went back and look at the box square afterwards. So like, get this, They go three and out on the first possession, but Bijan Robinson had a six-yard carry on first down. Now they had a negative yardage play on second down, but second series, Penix to Drake London, five yards, then a negative yardage play on second down. Third series, Bijan Robinson, nine-yard run to start things off. The fact that Bijan Robinson in this game only touched the ball, well, he had a couple catches. He only carried the ball nine times for 61 yards. Brian Robinson was a complete non-factor. They lost this game and fell behind. So I guess they felt like they needed to pass a little bit more, but to finish with only 12 carries for 63 yards, but average over five yards per carry and still get walked out of the building like they did against the bears. Very, very odd. And by the way, credit to Chicago though, came out from the get go, did Ben Johnson ball, put points on the board and use that leverage.
00:32:03
Speaker 1: The bears got Caleb Williams back and they took, they took control of that game from the beginning. I mean, Williams completed his first like 12 passes in a row and, and they were rolling on offense. But to your point about the Falcons, I mean, It's one of those games that just got away from them because at halftime, the time of possession was like 22 minutes to eight minutes. They only had the ball for eight minutes in the first half. And then you're going into a second half down by multiple scores and trying to figure out, okay, how do we, it's not about the game plan anymore at that point. It's like, how do you get back into the game and give yourself a chance? So, but yeah, I mean this, this NFC North and here, you know, on our next show, we're going to be previewing Packers against the Lions. The Packers are four and two, the Lions are three and two. They're going to go head to head here. And, you know, while the Vikings are sitting at 5-0 and the Bears are at 4-2, I mean, any loss in this division in the NFC North can be really painful because this division... is so competitive and, uh, and we'll talk about it on our next show, but man, Sunday at Ford field is going to be a, it's going to be a big clash.
00:33:08
Speaker 2: And ask the bears this because it was those losses in the division. Yes, they won the division with the losing record. Um, but the fact was, is that that hurt them then the standings, the seating for the playoffs. And, and it just, it's tough, man. Like it is difficult to work out of these holes. And, you know, I think there was a lot of years. I don't think it was so much in the building because Mike McCarthy and especially Matt LaFleur, they, they made it quite clear. It's winning the North. It's running the North. but I think in a lot of times fans just looked at it as, okay, we are predestined to win the division. So we're hosting. Is it just that we're going to host in the wild card or are we going to host in the divisional round? We should host in the division around. We should have the buy. And then what ends up happening is like, no, you start seeing how difficult it is to actually claim those division titles. Um, especially when a division like the North has been as competitive as it's been now for the past few years. Yeah.
00:33:52
Speaker 1: And, uh, um, it's, and for the teams, you know, whether it's when the year the Vikings rise up and win the division or the bears rise up and win the division, um, or the Lions do it, you know, the same team doesn't win the NFC North in back-to-back years very often. It's certainly not anymore. And, you know, some of those streaks the Packers have had in the past of those division titles, like you say, it sort of gets fans thinking, okay, this is just what the Packers are going to do. It's not like that in the North anymore. It's super competitive.
00:34:21
Speaker 2: And it's not like the Packers were just beating all these, like, you know, jabroni teams. I mean, like Matthew Stafford was a lot to deal with. The Chicago Bears, they had to beat them to go to a Super Bowl, right? In the year in which they won the North. Minnesota, again, as I was saying, they've had years, the Kirk Cousin years, where they were super competitive since Kevin O'Connell's been there. They've been, you know, every single year, you know you're going to have a tough out against them. Mike Zimmer went to Minnesota because they wanted him to run his defense against Aaron Rodgers. So, like, it's not easy to do this thing. But the fact is, is Green Bay at that time was just head and shoulders above everybody else. And right now, in this Jordan Love era, they are trying to establish themselves as that team once again.
00:35:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about it. Well, with that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team all week long on Packers.com. For Wes, I'm Mike. Thank you for tuning in.
00:35:11
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.
