WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to NeuroConnect podcast with myself Steve Fuller.
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I met Kate at a roundtable event that NeuroConnect hosted in 2025.
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The confident approach to sharing insights and ideas was clear to see within the first 20 minutes, and I thought I needed to know more.
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In learning and getting to know Kate, she has a story which is a journey.
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Neurodiversity isn't something that she's an ally of.
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She lives it through herself and her children.
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A professional and author who wants to support others is something that she lives 24-7.
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Her goal is to address frustrations and help improve the system with its approach to neurodiversity.
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Throughout this discussion, we address how and what her approach is.
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I hope you enjoy.
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Hello, Kate Baxton.
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How are you?
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I'm very well, thank you.
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How are you?
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I'm alright, thank you.
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It's the end of the week, and I know that we're both looking forward to an early night and an enjoyable weekend.
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Absolutely.
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Good.
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Kate, with every single guest that we have, we feel it's important to give a little bit of insights as to who you are, the individual.
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So if you don't mind, can you share with our listeners a little bit of an overview as to who you are, more about the upbringing of the early years of Kate?
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The early years of Kate Factson.
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I was born and raised in Rugby, which is a medium-sized town in the Midlands.
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I had a single mum.
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I've got two sisters.
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I'm only in contact with one of my sisters because, yeah, it wasn't the greatest relationship with my other sister.
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We didn't have very many boundaries.
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We used to do what all children in the 80s did, which was get on our bike and disappear for days on end without anyone checking in on us, which was great.
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But as I got older, the boundaries I still didn't have any.
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And my ADHD made me a risk taker.
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I can now see looking back on my life.
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And so I would do anything for dopamine and I would always prioritize my own needs above other people's.
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So I would say my childhood was free and easy, but also I was not the best person when I was a kid.
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I was very much focused around myself having fun rather than helping other people have fun.
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But I'm making up for that now.
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I'm all about helping other people have fun now.
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Absolutely.
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Two things that spiral there.
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You bring back a great memory of what it was like to grow up in the 80s.
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Not to disclose how old we are, but obviously people can work whatever out.
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And that was such a great time.
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We're literally on holidays and whenever.
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Yeah.
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We'll get on to the what you mentioned as well about your ADHD and the impact of what that was back then versus what you know now.
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But I'm curious as to how you were, how Kate developed through her educational journey.
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What was that like?
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Okay, my primary school was a tiny primary school in a village outside Rugby.
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So there were like, I think that when I was there, there were about 30 kids across four years.
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So it was when I grew up, we had first school, middle school, and secondary school.
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And so, yeah, four years split over two classes in a village with a head teacher who was also the class teacher called Mrs.
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Brown, who used to read her stories on the rug.
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And the highlight of my week would be when if I was lucky enough to be chosen to have the special shoe buffer that I could sit and polish her patent leather stiletto heels.
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That was yeah, everything for me.
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Middle school, I was still fine, I think.
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I was getting on, I was doing good projects.
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So second middle school took us to being 12 years old, and then I went to secondary school, and in secondary school, everything became much harder for me.
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I really couldn't focus.
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I was doing okay in my subjects, but I found it hard to sit still, hard to listen.
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I once hid on top of the cupboards in the little entry hall that was in our porter cabins and waited for my form tutor to come in and jumped off the top to scare her.
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And I did a great job.
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I really scared her.
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I scared her so much that she refused to have me in her class ever again.
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And I really genuinely didn't understand what the big deal was.
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But as an adult, I can now see that wasn't particularly great.
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Along with that, I had a much older boyfriend.
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So when I was in year 10, it would be the equivalent of had a much older boyfriend, and I would frequently Skybe school and go and hang out with him instead.
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Okay.
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So, in terms of like how I did, I passed my GCSEs.
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Weirdly, the school didn't want to keep me on for sixth form, like goodness only knows why.
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And so I had to go to a different sixth form and I got my A levels.
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But yeah, there was no joy in it.
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I really was not cut out for learning when I was that age.
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I was cut out for exploring and doing much more exciting things.
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So you really created a very good entertainment picture as to young Kate, scaven teachers, polishing stiletto heels, missing school classes for love at the time, or what you thought might have been love back then.
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When did you identify what direction your career wanted to go in terms of further education?
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Talk to me about that.
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Did you go to university, for example?
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So I did go to university because it was expected.
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There was like there was no choice, that was just what was going to happen.
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But to be honest, I wanted to leave home anyway.
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So that was a good opportunity for me to leave home.
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My mum wanted me to do science.
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I wanted to do something arty.
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I was much more arty than I was academic.
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So I ended up doing a degree called photographic and electronic imaging sciences.
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Yeah, fancy.
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And again, I was not great at university.
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I was all of the things that I was at secondary school and more.
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I used to drink a lot, I used to, yeah, be Larry all the time.
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Yeah, but I got my degree.
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I used to skip classes there as well, but I got my degree, and I with that degree, it's really easy to get a job as a medical photographer.
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And so that was my first job.
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It wasn't that I ever at any point in my life said I want to be a medical photographer.
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It was just because I wanted a job, and that job was really easy to get.
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So was that your first job in an adult world as a medical?
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Well, I wasn't gonna mention it, but I did also work for Red Letter Days briefly before, but I hated that experience.
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I'm not very good, and that's when I stopped loving, I know now, never to work anywhere corporate ever again.
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It's not it's not made for me.
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Um but yeah, so that lasted a year or two, and then I went to to do medical photography.
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I was at the Whittington Hospital, but I was hired by UCL, and UCL has 15,000 members of staff and 50,000 students, so there's a lot of opportunity to do different things.
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It's like its own little town, yeah.
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So that gave me a lot of options.
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So I found that I would obviously I loved being a medical photographer who wouldn't, but yes, it meant that I could change jobs very frequently.
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So I moved from a medical photographer to an illustrator to a web designer to a communications manager to an employee engagement manager, and then into being the head of employee experience, which as you I'm sure you're thinking, is a perfectly linear path.
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But yeah, I just I was very lucky that people were happy to support my strengths, and that's where my strengths took me.
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So you mentioned a few of your job titles, okay, of UCL.
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However, post that some of your job titles are head of HR and OD, head of organizational development, strategic workforce inclusion, strategic talent leadership lead, strategic transformation lead, also a founder and CEO, and also a chief wonderful woman, right?
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Yes.
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I can take the conversation in two different directions now, but they will both link into one.
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Okay.
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My first question to you is why is neurodiversity so important to you?
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Thank you.
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Neurodiversity is important to me because of my children.
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So my children, I've got 15-year-old twins, and they're both neurodivergent.
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My son was diagnosed when he was in year two, so he was about eight.
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He's medicated, he doesn't enjoy being medicated.
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He thinks it makes him boring and he doesn't like being boring.
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He much prefers being chaotic and having fun.
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My daughter is autistic as well as being ADHD, and she has a particular profile of autism called PDA, pathological demand avoidance, which is horrible.
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When I told her, she was like, oh my God, what?
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But yes, basically, she finds it really hard.
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If she has no control over situations, she prefers to have autonomy.
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And that has made school particularly difficult for her.
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So secondary school, uh, since she moved to secondary school, she's had a lot of problems to the point where we are now a year and a half without any formal schooling at all.
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And I'm trying everything within my power to find her a way of accessing an education.
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And so far I've come up, I failed, I failed to do that.
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So neuroinclusion is important to me because a lot of diversity you can see, but with neurodiversity, it's about how your brain works, so there's no way of seeing it.
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And that's the reason that I went and got diagnosed, because my daughter was so upset with her label that I thought I would be a visible role model for her.
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Because I think you need a label to be able to be a visible role model, or at least it helps.
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So yeah, it's important to me because injustice of any sort now in my older age, and as a kid, I couldn't really understand it.
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I don't think I developed emotional intelligence until I was much older.
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But now it's really important to me.
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And yeah, I'm fighting the system day in, day out, and I just want to do it.
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I want to have as big an impact as possible.
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And I find that in the world of work, I'm able to have a much more significant impact than I am in terms of my kids' schooling.
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What I'd like to say there is you've not failed.
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It's a journey.
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It's a journey because I'm sure that there are other parents, guardians, who are also going through what you're going through.
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They've just not found what it is yet.
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And obviously, circumstance people are able to offer homeschooling or public schooling or private schooling and all these different types of things.
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I say that obviously because I have a background in teaching in special educational needs schools.
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So I'm very much aware myself of what some of the challenges can be.
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Yeah.
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I can't profess or say that I'm standing in your shoes in terms of going what you're going through with my children.
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However, you've not failed.
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It's a continual journey, and you'll find your way.
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What on that though, Kate, what communities are there for your current situation, in particular with your daughter, where children who have autism and neurodiversity are in this cloud or bubble of not being in education, but it's where they need to be because of obviously the system about all these different types of things.
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What support networks are there?
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Have you found any?
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Great question.
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Just so happens, this week I won Neurodiverse Business, Neurodiversity Network of the Year award.
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Thank you, thank you.
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Yeah, so at work, we have set up a network for parents and carers of neurodivergent children.
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We've got 80 members of the group, and we are a group of people who just get it because most people don't get it.
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And most people really want to help, and they do things to help, but that they can feel just incredibly unhelpful to hear.
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Yes, it's great to find a tribe of people who understand you.
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And we've done that at work, but also I am on the leadership panel of my local parent and carers group, which there's a whole every local authority has a recognized parent and carers group that is funded by the DFE and can work in close partnership.
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Actually, not in partnership.
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We basically we provide a voice of parents of send children in our area so that we can support our local authority to make better decisions.
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So there's that.
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But then also I found a couple more networks.
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So there's one that I love going to called Deal Walks, I think we're called, where we just meet up every month or so and go for a walk in it's normally in Lincoln Inn's fields, which is really nice again.
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It's just a group of other professional mums of neurodivergent kids who are fighting the system, and it's nice just to share battle stories and get support where we need it.
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And then I've got another that's an online one that's called Sensational, which again, yeah, it's exactly the same thing, but a different group of people.
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And I absolutely love it because yeah, it's just so great to find people who are going through similar things so that you can support them, but also so that they can support you.
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I was just about to ask, what do you get from these groups?
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Yeah.
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Because as I've said we've said offline, often the parents or guardians are 100% protecting their children, trying to find solutions, alternatives, make them feel happy, make them feel safe, make them feel they're seen and heard for who they are and what they represent.
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But then often, as we all know, the parents and the guardians how what do you get from these community groups?
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So when you go to daffodils, was it daffodils?
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Yeah, daffodils.
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What is it you get from it?
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Mostly validation that what you're going through isn't like something that you've caused, it's and it's real because, like I said, people automatically want to help you.
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And so if you say, Look, I've just had a really bad morning because my child has developed an eating disorder, most people will say, Oh, I'm really sorry.
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Have you tried?
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And they'll suggest something.
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And they suggest it in a really well-meaning thing, but actually it can feel really dismissive and invalidating because, of course, we tried it.
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We've tried everything humanly possible because our most important job is to keep our children safe.
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And it can feel really perilously close to our children not being safe.
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Yeah.
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So, you know, as well with the school, you get people saying things like, the local authority has a legal obligation to provide your old child with a suitable full-time education.
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And we're like, absolutely, I know that doesn't mean they're gonna do it.
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They couldn't care less.
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They drag their heels deliberately because it's more time when they're not paying for my child's education, so they save money, and it can just get you goat up.
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I don't know where that phrase comes from.
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That's a weird phrase, but yes, it can get you go up.
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Yeah, or my or your backup.
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Let's do it.
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Your back or your goats, what are the other but yes, so it's really nice to be in a room of people.
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So when they say, I'm really having trouble with the local authority, you can say, actually, I found this worked for me.
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This would be a nice segue into the fact that I've written a book, wouldn't it?
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I mean, it would be, and you just hold on that for two seconds.
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For full transparency, this is obviously your personal experience.
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Okay, absolutely.
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So to all the listeners, you might have a different journey to what Kate's is.
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However, this is just Kate's experience and her journey to date, all right.
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And I'm a lover of reading, and I understand that you've written a book.
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Tell us more about that, Kate.
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Thank you, Steve.
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I have written a book that is called How to Act the System.
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66 Shortcuts to becoming your neurodivergent child's fiercest advocate.
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So the concept is whenever we've discovered something, I'm writing it with a colleague called Sophie Shaw, who runs the Neurodivergent Care Parent and Carers Network with me.
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And whenever we come up with something that's really helped us, we turn it into a hack.
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So, for example, let's think of one.
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Here's an easy one.
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If you've got a child and you think they might be ADHD, a really good hack is actually if you're going to get an assessment, ask that they're recessed for both ADHD and autism at the same time, because otherwise you have to cue twice.
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And actually, what's really interesting is there's a massive overlap between ADHD and autism.
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And so, as a parent, you're not necessarily going to know that.
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And if someone says to you your child might be ADHD, that's what you focus on.
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You wouldn't necessarily think, but we found that it's really helpful to ask for both at the same time.
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That's brilliant.
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Yeah.
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One of my questions was going to be around what support you'd like to see for parents of children who have a special need, neurodiverse, autism, however, people want to identify with this world per se.
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You've obviously provided, for example, for through your experience a book of hacks of just what to be mindful of, what questions to ask?
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Can you kill two birds with the same stone so that you don't have to cue twice, for example?
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Yeah.
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Going back to when your your twins were born, and as you said, your son was diagnosed at two years of age, or two years of age.
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No, in year two.
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So he's a good one.
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In year two.
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My apologies.
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That's okay.
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What support would you like to have had from back then when this world was new to you in terms of what you and your family are about to embark upon?
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Great question.
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:36.960
I would have loved the school to have noticed it and for them to have led the process rather than me being made to feel like a neurotic mother.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.720
That would have been a help.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:50.319
And I would have really preferred for all of the bits of the system, so navigating assessments, navigating additional support in school and all of these things.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.720
Rather than it feeling like it had to be me.
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.759
For example, medication.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:08.880
To get medication, so my son is medicated, which I told you he doesn't like, but he does it because otherwise he can't survive in school.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:17.440
To get medication, we have to see the psychiatrist at CAMS, which is one side of Mfield where we live.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.119
And they will then say, okay, this is your prescription.
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.759
They will check it and what have you.
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.400
They will then send a letter to the GP.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:31.839
We then have to write to the GP to get the prescription, who then keeps it.
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.400
I have to go and physically pick it up from them.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.079
Once I've picked it up from them, I have to take it to a pharmacy.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:42.000
And then the pharmacist will do their best to find the medication.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:46.480
So just that is monthly housekeeping.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:53.759
Although we don't have to see the psychiatrist every month, we see her every six months now, unless we need a change to medication.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:59.599
But it just takes a phenomenal amount of executive functioning.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:04.640
And I am ADHD and I find executive functioning really hard.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.000
And so I put it off.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:12.319
But then if I put it off too long, I end up not having medication for him because something goes wrong.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.680
I could tell you very boring stories about how many times it's gone wrong.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.480
I won't do that because it is very boring.
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:28.319
But the point is, it's so important for him to be medicated in order to not get into trouble at school, but it's so easy for that part of the system just to fail.
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:30.640
Okay.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:38.559
Education, that's a whole new discussion and topic point, which we can discuss in another discussion.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:48.000
So you mentioned that you yourself decided to get a diagnosis to see actually how you were operating.
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:58.880
The catalyst being for your daughter in particular, to have a someone who she looks up to, she can see is also going through things, and this is how you're dealing with whatnot.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:07.759
Why is neurodiversity getting attraction so much now compared to a few years ago, from your perspective, Kate?
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.680
Because I'll be honest with you.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.640
I'm not as familiar with this space as others.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:27.119
Yes, I've taught, I'm aware, even when I was in education, I'd have students come to me and tell me they are ADHD, they are dyspraxic, have dyslexia.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:38.960
I would have information from the school in regards to children who have medical conditions where they might be mute or they can only do converse via sign language, for example.
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:53.599
Neurodiversity in the 80s, 90s, the perception was for a number of different cultures and countries that okay, if this is how you are, then you're just not built mentally the same like me.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:55.759
Get over it, find a way.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.960
Why is it getting the traction so much now in this day and age, do you think?
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.720
It's all to do with the timeline.
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:09.519
I was trying to quickly search it discreetly because I can't remember the dates.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:16.880
But basically, ADHD has been diagnosable for a little while, not actually for as long as many people think.
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:29.440
And then even when it was first made into a diagnosable condition, the symptoms that they described as having ADHD were based on white boys.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:39.759
And so it made it hard to diagnose people of different ethnicities and people of different ages and genders from diagnosing white boys.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.480
And so then they've been improving it steadily.
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:53.440
So that's one aspect because now they have a way of diagnosing adult women, which before wouldn't we wouldn't have shown up because it wouldn't have been possible.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:00.960
I think the other thing is there's this knock-on effect of our children being diagnosed.
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:05.039
I'm neurodiversity tends to run in families.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:12.079
It's not the only reason that someone might end up to be neurodivergent, but it's one of the greatest links is genetics.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:18.000
So it's likely that if you're neurodivergent, then your children will be neurodivergent.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:26.079
So if you don't know you're neurodivergent and you have children and you see them struggling in school, you probably struggle from school as well.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:32.960
And so then you're going to have this justice feeling coming into it, and you're thinking, it's not fair.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.839
I remember how unfair it was that I struggled in school.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.240
I'm going to want, I want to help my child.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:43.440
And so you do whatever you can to find out what support your child needs.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:47.200
Along that journey, chances are you find out they're neurodivergent.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:53.519
At which point, little flag appears, and you're like, hang on a minute.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.039
I really relate to their experience in school.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.039
Maybe I was neurodivergent.
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:10.559
And so there's a, I think there's a whole wave of parents going through the process because when they recognize it in their children, they recognize it in themselves.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.559
And then they want a diagnosis.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.920
There are so many people who don't want a diagnosis.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:25.599
And I find that really troubling because by not wanting a diagnosis, it adds to the stigma that the labels are a bad thing.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:32.079
So that's like our own community of neurodivergent people basically adding to the stigma.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.079
And there's so much stigma coming from everyone in the world, it's coming from the manosphere, Steve.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:43.359
It's coming from politicians, it's coming from everywhere.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:45.920
We don't need our own community adding to it.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:47.200
Interesting.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.920
You uh you touched on a number of points there.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:26:13.119
I recently was offered to do a do-it profiler, okay, to see whether I had any traits or whether it's not because I think I act in a certain way, shape, or form, but I was offered to do it to see who I am, and I put it off for a good couple of months.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.240
Do you know why?
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:20.400
I have to I'll be honest with you.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.799
I don't know if I wanted to know.
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:31.920
What benefit would have been to me because I have a way about me that's working.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:45.039
I don't see anything forgive me for I don't see anything which is challenging me in a way for me to consider, oh, am I in any way part of the neuro world in general.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.640
However, a friend of mine who's a coach said, just do it.
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:52.319
So I did it last week.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:59.759
And nothing of I'm glad I did it because I shouldn't have been nervous to begin with.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:00.480
Yeah.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:05.519
However, the general phrase that people say, everybody's on the spectrum.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.759
Oh my gosh, that annoys me so much.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:08.319
But carry on.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.799
Everybody's on the spectrum is what you hear.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.640
Everyone's got something of something.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.599
Okay, whether you believe that or not, who knows?
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:22.480
But they said traits of this, traits of that, but it never says you are or you are not.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:29.680
And I thought that some of the wording in how it was phrased was very important to actually make me feel at ease.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:30.480
Yeah.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:40.640
And I think for people who, in my experience, anyway, I wasn't sure, but I had to make that leap of faith into actually just doing it.
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:41.119
Yeah.
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:46.319
And in doing it, I felt very comfortable in answering the questions, honestly, obviously.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.079
So it was very interesting experience for me doing that.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:51.839
What was it like for you?
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.799
What was the process like for you, Kate, when you decided to get diagnosed?
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.759
Was it fairly easy?
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:58.720
Was it challenging?
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:00.400
Was it through the NHS?
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.359
Was it private?
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:10.720
Because obviously there are many adults in particular who are in a working environment who are able to afford a house, car, etc.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.880
But then there are others who aren't.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.119
So what was that process like for you?
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:25.119
And again, you have people saying that everyone's overdiagnosed and that we're putting this huge pressure on the NHS by us all being neurodivergent and what have you.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:27.920
So, yeah, it's not an ideal situation.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.839
You're made to feel like a burden before you even take the first step.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:35.279
The way I did it using something called Right to Choose.
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:51.440
So, right to choose is funded by the NHS, but you don't have to go to an NHS clinic with a psychiatrist and a psychologist and the other services, you can do it via approved providers that you can find online.
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:53.839
And so that's what I did.
00:28:54.079 --> 00:29:04.319
It meant that instead of waiting, I'm still on the NHS waiting list, but when I was on it, after a few months, they sent me an email to say you're on the NHS waiting list.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.119
What we can't tell you how long you'll be on it for.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:13.279
However, we're currently seeing people from, and they gave me a date that was five years before where we were.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.039
I could be on that for a long time.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:20.480
Right to choose, I chose a company who did it, who did the assessment online.
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:24.400
It was very quick, which probably isn't an amazing thing.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:37.279
It would have been better to have a more detailed thorough thing, but it meant that I had a diagnosis within seven months, which was much better for me because all I really actually wanted two things.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:42.559
I wanted my diagnosis, but I also wanted to try medication.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.759
I'm still waiting for the medication bit.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:52.559
So even though I got my diagnosis, I've not come to the front of the queue for medication yet.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.279
So I'm still waiting for that aspect of it.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:04.559
I did get access to some psychoeducation, which was really helpful, learning a bit more about how your brain works and how you might regulate, which was really helpful.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.119
Yeah.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:08.240
Can we go back to the bit about everyone's on the spectrum?
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:09.440
Absolutely.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.319
Thank you.
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:22.240
So it's really problematic because everyone has traits that can be seen as ADHD or autistic traits, and that's absolutely fine.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:28.720
The problem is when people say that everyone's a bit on the spectrum, it really belittles our experience.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:35.359
And it comes down to the word disability, which I hate the word disability, but this is why the word is so important.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:47.279
You can only be ADHD or autistic if the combination of traits that you experience is significant enough to impact your daily tasks, how you carry out your daily tasks.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:52.799
So to be on the spectrum, like the spectrum only starts like when you're disabled.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:59.759
But also, I don't think a linear spectrum is really that helpful either, because I think it's more of a three-dimensional space.
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:06.079
And yes, like the umbrella term neurodiversity includes everyone.
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.000
So everyone is under the umbrella of neurodiversity.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.400
Neurotypical people are under there too.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:18.559
But to be on the spectrum, you have to be disabled, yeah, by your condition.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:21.519
It comes down to the education, doesn't it?
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:21.920
Yeah.
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:23.599
And thorough understanding.
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:28.400
We spoke at a round table which I hosted this week about.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.200
And which I was gutted to miss, and I'm sorry.
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.279
Don't be sorry at all.
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.079
It was for good reason, as we both know.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:44.319
But there's a fear factor of people saying and doing the wrong thing if they're not aware.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:45.759
Yeah.
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:52.960
That's a good and a bad thing because obviously you don't want to offend, but at the same time, you want people to understand.
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:55.599
So, yeah, how do you approach conversation?
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:56.559
Forgive me.
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.319
I'm not sure how to approach this.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.680
So, can you educate me as we belong in the conversation?
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:08.400
But it actually is a nice segue, actually, into something which I said earlier on in regards to the conversation going two different directions.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:14.799
Because you've done fantastic work in your nine-to-five winning awards.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:22.960
What is it from your perspective that companies and employees should be mindful of when it comes to this space?
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.839
That we're all completely different.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:32.880
So it's really hard to put into place systemic changes, but that is where we need changes.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.799
We need changes at the systemic level, not just a person-by-person level.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:45.039
And to see the whole picture, like I've mentioned, if you're neurodivergent, it's likely that when you have children, your children will be neurodivergent.
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.799
And as a neurodivergent person, uh parenting neurodivergent children is perfectly natural.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:58.000
However, parenting neurodivergent children to fit into the neurotypical norm is very difficult.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.839
It requires a lot of executive functioning, which we are challenged in.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.519
And so it can make for a very difficult experience.
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:16.880
And so what I would say is to see the whole picture and not just focus on the person, but on their whole ecosystem of their life and recognize, validate.
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:29.279
Gave a speech last night, and the best thing about it, apart from meeting, was the number of people who came up afterwards and said how seen they feel for the first time and how validated they were.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:42.079
And that's why I do it, because um my whole mission in life now is to help as many neurodivergent people as possible because I can I'm so limited in how I can help my daughter.
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.920
And I put in, I'm ADHD, I can do a thousand things at once.
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:53.920
So I am putting all of the support I possibly can in around my daughter, but I need to be doing something else that's actually making an impact.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.000
And so the way that I do that is by helping other people wherever possible.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:00.000
That's good.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:08.400
Look, we've come to the end of our time, but I do have one last question which I'd like your input on, please.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:14.000
What's a message you can share to those that don't understand neurodiversity?
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.519
Okay, maybe it's this.
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:25.599
So for people who don't understand neurodiversity, empathizing with neurodivergent people can be difficult.
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:33.360
Like you would never say to someone who's wearing glasses, try harder to see, instead of wearing glasses.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:38.239
However, we're always doing that with neurodivergent people.
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:46.000
Try harder to focus, try harder to sit still, try harder to pay attention, to remember what you're meant to, all of those things.
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:47.360
We're doing it all the time.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:58.960
So, what I would say is in the work context, if someone who has a different neurotype to you, whose brain works differently, tells you that they've experienced something in a way and you think that doesn't make any sense.
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:07.519
Just take a breath, take a moment and think, actually, everyone experiences things in a different way and just accept the way that they're saying it.
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.039
No one makes it up.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.840
I just don't know where the purpose for that would be.
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:21.599
So instead of saying you're overreacting or don't be so silly or whatever, actually just accept it and see where that takes you.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:23.599
It's gonna take a lot of patience for many.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:24.800
Yeah, absolutely.
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:32.880
But hopefully, with the growth mindset, it's gonna help you like in so many ways, not just with neurodiversity, it's a really inclusive way of thinking.
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:36.000
It's a great way to think about it, inclusive way of thinking.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.320
Kate, thank you so much for having this discussion with me.
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:58.239
I look forward to hearing and developing our relationship, the NeuroConnect relationship with you and your platforms, and continue to support you on your own personal journey with further books, further meets and greets, and everything you're doing.
00:35:58.400 --> 00:35:59.599
So thank you so much.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.480
Thank you so much.
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:03.440
Is it okay to give a plug to the website as well?
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.360
You've said it, I can't say no.
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:06.079
Absolutely.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.119
That would be me.
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:10.800
The website is neuroxtraordinary.co.uk.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:17.039
So it's got my services on there, but also I'm trying to build that online community where there's information.
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:21.199
Some of the things that didn't fit into the book are on there.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:33.199
And that's what this is all about community supporting communities, not communities blocking other communities because there's one goal, which is better insights for everybody to be able to move forward in one way, shape, or form.
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.719
Thank you for the plug.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:35.440
Thank you.
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:44.159
Part of the in group communities, NeuroConnect is a community dedicated to supporting and empowering neurodiverse talent in the workplace.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:49.599
If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, we'd love it if you could rate, review, and subscribe.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.599
It helps more people find these stories and be part of the conversation.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:56.159
Thanks for listening and see you next time.
00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:05.919
Hello and welcome to NeuroConnect podcast with myself Steve Fuller.
00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:11.519
I met Kate at a roundtable event that NeuroConnect hosted in 2025.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:19.920
The confident approach to sharing insights and ideas was clear to see within the first 20 minutes, and I thought I needed to know more.
00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:24.719
In learning and getting to know Kate, she has a story which is a journey.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:28.160
Neurodiversity isn't something that she's an ally of.
00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:31.120
She lives it through herself and her children.
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:36.880
A professional and author who wants to support others is something that she lives 24-7.
00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:43.119
Her goal is to address frustrations and help improve the system with its approach to neurodiversity.
00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.759
Throughout this discussion, we address how and what her approach is.
00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.359
I hope you enjoy.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.119
Hello, Kate Baxton.
00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:51.840
How are you?
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:53.359
I'm very well, thank you.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:53.920
How are you?
00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:55.039
I'm alright, thank you.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:59.600
It's the end of the week, and I know that we're both looking forward to an early night and an enjoyable weekend.
00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:00.640
Absolutely.
00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:01.359
Good.
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:09.280
Kate, with every single guest that we have, we feel it's important to give a little bit of insights as to who you are, the individual.
00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:17.680
So if you don't mind, can you share with our listeners a little bit of an overview as to who you are, more about the upbringing of the early years of Kate?
00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:19.840
The early years of Kate Factson.
00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:26.560
I was born and raised in Rugby, which is a medium-sized town in the Midlands.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:28.000
I had a single mum.
00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:29.599
I've got two sisters.
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:37.040
I'm only in contact with one of my sisters because, yeah, it wasn't the greatest relationship with my other sister.
00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:39.040
We didn't have very many boundaries.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:48.879
We used to do what all children in the 80s did, which was get on our bike and disappear for days on end without anyone checking in on us, which was great.
00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.719
But as I got older, the boundaries I still didn't have any.
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.760
And my ADHD made me a risk taker.
00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.000
I can now see looking back on my life.
00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:05.280
And so I would do anything for dopamine and I would always prioritize my own needs above other people's.
00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:12.879
So I would say my childhood was free and easy, but also I was not the best person when I was a kid.
00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:18.560
I was very much focused around myself having fun rather than helping other people have fun.
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:20.159
But I'm making up for that now.
00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:22.800
I'm all about helping other people have fun now.
00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:24.240
Absolutely.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.159
Two things that spiral there.
00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:29.759
You bring back a great memory of what it was like to grow up in the 80s.
00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:33.840
Not to disclose how old we are, but obviously people can work whatever out.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:35.840
And that was such a great time.
00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:38.400
We're literally on holidays and whenever.
00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:47.680
Yeah.
00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:58.800
We'll get on to the what you mentioned as well about your ADHD and the impact of what that was back then versus what you know now.
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:05.599
But I'm curious as to how you were, how Kate developed through her educational journey.
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:06.879
What was that like?
00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:11.840
Okay, my primary school was a tiny primary school in a village outside Rugby.
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:17.280
So there were like, I think that when I was there, there were about 30 kids across four years.
00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:22.240
So it was when I grew up, we had first school, middle school, and secondary school.
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:32.080
And so, yeah, four years split over two classes in a village with a head teacher who was also the class teacher called Mrs.
00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:35.280
Brown, who used to read her stories on the rug.
00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:46.080
And the highlight of my week would be when if I was lucky enough to be chosen to have the special shoe buffer that I could sit and polish her patent leather stiletto heels.
00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:48.719
That was yeah, everything for me.
00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:52.960
Middle school, I was still fine, I think.
00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.680
I was getting on, I was doing good projects.
00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:08.400
So second middle school took us to being 12 years old, and then I went to secondary school, and in secondary school, everything became much harder for me.
00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:10.159
I really couldn't focus.
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:18.160
I was doing okay in my subjects, but I found it hard to sit still, hard to listen.
00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:32.480
I once hid on top of the cupboards in the little entry hall that was in our porter cabins and waited for my form tutor to come in and jumped off the top to scare her.
00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:33.680
And I did a great job.
00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:34.879
I really scared her.
00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.720
I scared her so much that she refused to have me in her class ever again.
00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.879
And I really genuinely didn't understand what the big deal was.
00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.600
But as an adult, I can now see that wasn't particularly great.
00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:50.399
Along with that, I had a much older boyfriend.
00:04:50.480 --> 00:05:01.040
So when I was in year 10, it would be the equivalent of had a much older boyfriend, and I would frequently Skybe school and go and hang out with him instead.
00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:01.680
Okay.
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:06.959
So, in terms of like how I did, I passed my GCSEs.
00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:12.959
Weirdly, the school didn't want to keep me on for sixth form, like goodness only knows why.
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.800
And so I had to go to a different sixth form and I got my A levels.
00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:19.120
But yeah, there was no joy in it.
00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:22.720
I really was not cut out for learning when I was that age.
00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:28.079
I was cut out for exploring and doing much more exciting things.
00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:45.839
So you really created a very good entertainment picture as to young Kate, scaven teachers, polishing stiletto heels, missing school classes for love at the time, or what you thought might have been love back then.
00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:54.000
When did you identify what direction your career wanted to go in terms of further education?
00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:55.199
Talk to me about that.
00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:57.120
Did you go to university, for example?
00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.560
So I did go to university because it was expected.
00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.839
There was like there was no choice, that was just what was going to happen.
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.480
But to be honest, I wanted to leave home anyway.
00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:10.800
So that was a good opportunity for me to leave home.
00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:13.360
My mum wanted me to do science.
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:15.439
I wanted to do something arty.
00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.639
I was much more arty than I was academic.
00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:24.319
So I ended up doing a degree called photographic and electronic imaging sciences.
00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:25.680
Yeah, fancy.
00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.959
And again, I was not great at university.
00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:32.959
I was all of the things that I was at secondary school and more.
00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:40.000
I used to drink a lot, I used to, yeah, be Larry all the time.
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.800
Yeah, but I got my degree.
00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:51.120
I used to skip classes there as well, but I got my degree, and I with that degree, it's really easy to get a job as a medical photographer.
00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:52.800
And so that was my first job.
00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:58.319
It wasn't that I ever at any point in my life said I want to be a medical photographer.
00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:03.680
It was just because I wanted a job, and that job was really easy to get.
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:10.000
So was that your first job in an adult world as a medical?
00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:18.079
Well, I wasn't gonna mention it, but I did also work for Red Letter Days briefly before, but I hated that experience.
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:24.879
I'm not very good, and that's when I stopped loving, I know now, never to work anywhere corporate ever again.
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:26.720
It's not it's not made for me.
00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:33.519
Um but yeah, so that lasted a year or two, and then I went to to do medical photography.
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:45.920
I was at the Whittington Hospital, but I was hired by UCL, and UCL has 15,000 members of staff and 50,000 students, so there's a lot of opportunity to do different things.
00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.319
It's like its own little town, yeah.
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.199
So that gave me a lot of options.
00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:59.680
So I found that I would obviously I loved being a medical photographer who wouldn't, but yes, it meant that I could change jobs very frequently.
00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:21.439
So I moved from a medical photographer to an illustrator to a web designer to a communications manager to an employee engagement manager, and then into being the head of employee experience, which as you I'm sure you're thinking, is a perfectly linear path.
00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:30.560
But yeah, I just I was very lucky that people were happy to support my strengths, and that's where my strengths took me.
00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:36.080
So you mentioned a few of your job titles, okay, of UCL.
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:58.320
However, post that some of your job titles are head of HR and OD, head of organizational development, strategic workforce inclusion, strategic talent leadership lead, strategic transformation lead, also a founder and CEO, and also a chief wonderful woman, right?
00:08:58.879 --> 00:08:59.279
Yes.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:05.360
I can take the conversation in two different directions now, but they will both link into one.
00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:06.159
Okay.
00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:13.279
My first question to you is why is neurodiversity so important to you?
00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:14.639
Thank you.
00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:18.320
Neurodiversity is important to me because of my children.
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:25.679
So my children, I've got 15-year-old twins, and they're both neurodivergent.
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.639
My son was diagnosed when he was in year two, so he was about eight.
00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.600
He's medicated, he doesn't enjoy being medicated.
00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:36.559
He thinks it makes him boring and he doesn't like being boring.
00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:40.399
He much prefers being chaotic and having fun.
00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:50.639
My daughter is autistic as well as being ADHD, and she has a particular profile of autism called PDA, pathological demand avoidance, which is horrible.
00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:53.440
When I told her, she was like, oh my God, what?
00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.960
But yes, basically, she finds it really hard.
00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:01.279
If she has no control over situations, she prefers to have autonomy.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.639
And that has made school particularly difficult for her.
00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:15.679
So secondary school, uh, since she moved to secondary school, she's had a lot of problems to the point where we are now a year and a half without any formal schooling at all.
00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:22.000
And I'm trying everything within my power to find her a way of accessing an education.
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.720
And so far I've come up, I failed, I failed to do that.
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:38.399
So neuroinclusion is important to me because a lot of diversity you can see, but with neurodiversity, it's about how your brain works, so there's no way of seeing it.
00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:47.440
And that's the reason that I went and got diagnosed, because my daughter was so upset with her label that I thought I would be a visible role model for her.
00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:53.679
Because I think you need a label to be able to be a visible role model, or at least it helps.
00:10:53.919 --> 00:11:02.879
So yeah, it's important to me because injustice of any sort now in my older age, and as a kid, I couldn't really understand it.
00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.039
I don't think I developed emotional intelligence until I was much older.
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.159
But now it's really important to me.
00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:15.039
And yeah, I'm fighting the system day in, day out, and I just want to do it.
00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:17.600
I want to have as big an impact as possible.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:26.000
And I find that in the world of work, I'm able to have a much more significant impact than I am in terms of my kids' schooling.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:32.320
What I'd like to say there is you've not failed.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:33.600
It's a journey.
00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:43.679
It's a journey because I'm sure that there are other parents, guardians, who are also going through what you're going through.
00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:45.919
They've just not found what it is yet.
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:54.639
And obviously, circumstance people are able to offer homeschooling or public schooling or private schooling and all these different types of things.
00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:00.159
I say that obviously because I have a background in teaching in special educational needs schools.
00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.519
So I'm very much aware myself of what some of the challenges can be.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:04.080
Yeah.
00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:09.679
I can't profess or say that I'm standing in your shoes in terms of going what you're going through with my children.
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:11.440
However, you've not failed.
00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.440
It's a continual journey, and you'll find your way.
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:42.799
What on that though, Kate, what communities are there for your current situation, in particular with your daughter, where children who have autism and neurodiversity are in this cloud or bubble of not being in education, but it's where they need to be because of obviously the system about all these different types of things.
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:44.639
What support networks are there?
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:46.000
Have you found any?
00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:47.519
Great question.
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:54.000
Just so happens, this week I won Neurodiverse Business, Neurodiversity Network of the Year award.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:54.960
Thank you, thank you.
00:12:55.200 --> 00:13:01.840
Yeah, so at work, we have set up a network for parents and carers of neurodivergent children.
00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:09.919
We've got 80 members of the group, and we are a group of people who just get it because most people don't get it.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:17.200
And most people really want to help, and they do things to help, but that they can feel just incredibly unhelpful to hear.
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:20.960
Yes, it's great to find a tribe of people who understand you.
00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:39.919
And we've done that at work, but also I am on the leadership panel of my local parent and carers group, which there's a whole every local authority has a recognized parent and carers group that is funded by the DFE and can work in close partnership.
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.279
Actually, not in partnership.
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:53.039
We basically we provide a voice of parents of send children in our area so that we can support our local authority to make better decisions.
00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:54.320
So there's that.
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.600
But then also I found a couple more networks.
00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:11.120
So there's one that I love going to called Deal Walks, I think we're called, where we just meet up every month or so and go for a walk in it's normally in Lincoln Inn's fields, which is really nice again.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:22.399
It's just a group of other professional mums of neurodivergent kids who are fighting the system, and it's nice just to share battle stories and get support where we need it.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:30.399
And then I've got another that's an online one that's called Sensational, which again, yeah, it's exactly the same thing, but a different group of people.
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:40.639
And I absolutely love it because yeah, it's just so great to find people who are going through similar things so that you can support them, but also so that they can support you.
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.559
I was just about to ask, what do you get from these groups?
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:45.360
Yeah.
00:14:45.600 --> 00:15:02.879
Because as I've said we've said offline, often the parents or guardians are 100% protecting their children, trying to find solutions, alternatives, make them feel happy, make them feel safe, make them feel they're seen and heard for who they are and what they represent.
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:10.159
But then often, as we all know, the parents and the guardians how what do you get from these community groups?
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.799
So when you go to daffodils, was it daffodils?
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.600
Yeah, daffodils.
00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:21.279
What is it you get from it?
00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:36.720
Mostly validation that what you're going through isn't like something that you've caused, it's and it's real because, like I said, people automatically want to help you.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:46.159
And so if you say, Look, I've just had a really bad morning because my child has developed an eating disorder, most people will say, Oh, I'm really sorry.
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:47.120
Have you tried?
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:48.879
And they'll suggest something.
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:58.720
And they suggest it in a really well-meaning thing, but actually it can feel really dismissive and invalidating because, of course, we tried it.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.919
We've tried everything humanly possible because our most important job is to keep our children safe.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.399
And it can feel really perilously close to our children not being safe.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:08.960
Yeah.
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:20.080
So, you know, as well with the school, you get people saying things like, the local authority has a legal obligation to provide your old child with a suitable full-time education.
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:24.559
And we're like, absolutely, I know that doesn't mean they're gonna do it.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.320
They couldn't care less.
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:35.200
They drag their heels deliberately because it's more time when they're not paying for my child's education, so they save money, and it can just get you goat up.
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.440
I don't know where that phrase comes from.
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.000
That's a weird phrase, but yes, it can get you go up.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:42.080
Yeah, or my or your backup.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:42.480
Let's do it.
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:47.759
Your back or your goats, what are the other but yes, so it's really nice to be in a room of people.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:54.399
So when they say, I'm really having trouble with the local authority, you can say, actually, I found this worked for me.
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:58.320
This would be a nice segue into the fact that I've written a book, wouldn't it?
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.279
I mean, it would be, and you just hold on that for two seconds.
00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.960
For full transparency, this is obviously your personal experience.
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:09.839
Okay, absolutely.
00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.920
So to all the listeners, you might have a different journey to what Kate's is.
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.240
However, this is just Kate's experience and her journey to date, all right.
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.920
And I'm a lover of reading, and I understand that you've written a book.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.440
Tell us more about that, Kate.
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:26.799
Thank you, Steve.
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.799
I have written a book that is called How to Act the System.
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:37.680
66 Shortcuts to becoming your neurodivergent child's fiercest advocate.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:47.759
So the concept is whenever we've discovered something, I'm writing it with a colleague called Sophie Shaw, who runs the Neurodivergent Care Parent and Carers Network with me.
00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:53.359
And whenever we come up with something that's really helped us, we turn it into a hack.
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.680
So, for example, let's think of one.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.039
Here's an easy one.
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:10.720
If you've got a child and you think they might be ADHD, a really good hack is actually if you're going to get an assessment, ask that they're recessed for both ADHD and autism at the same time, because otherwise you have to cue twice.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.440
And actually, what's really interesting is there's a massive overlap between ADHD and autism.
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.680
And so, as a parent, you're not necessarily going to know that.
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:24.000
And if someone says to you your child might be ADHD, that's what you focus on.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:29.680
You wouldn't necessarily think, but we found that it's really helpful to ask for both at the same time.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.279
That's brilliant.
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:33.599
Yeah.
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:50.480
One of my questions was going to be around what support you'd like to see for parents of children who have a special need, neurodiverse, autism, however, people want to identify with this world per se.
00:18:51.920 --> 00:19:00.559
You've obviously provided, for example, for through your experience a book of hacks of just what to be mindful of, what questions to ask?
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:04.960
Can you kill two birds with the same stone so that you don't have to cue twice, for example?
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:05.839
Yeah.
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:15.119
Going back to when your your twins were born, and as you said, your son was diagnosed at two years of age, or two years of age.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.759
No, in year two.
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:16.240
So he's a good one.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:16.880
In year two.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:17.920
My apologies.
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:18.559
That's okay.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:28.319
What support would you like to have had from back then when this world was new to you in terms of what you and your family are about to embark upon?
00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:29.519
Great question.
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:36.960
I would have loved the school to have noticed it and for them to have led the process rather than me being made to feel like a neurotic mother.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.720
That would have been a help.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:50.319
And I would have really preferred for all of the bits of the system, so navigating assessments, navigating additional support in school and all of these things.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.720
Rather than it feeling like it had to be me.
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.759
For example, medication.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:08.880
To get medication, so my son is medicated, which I told you he doesn't like, but he does it because otherwise he can't survive in school.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:17.440
To get medication, we have to see the psychiatrist at CAMS, which is one side of Mfield where we live.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.119
And they will then say, okay, this is your prescription.
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.759
They will check it and what have you.
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.400
They will then send a letter to the GP.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:31.839
We then have to write to the GP to get the prescription, who then keeps it.
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.400
I have to go and physically pick it up from them.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.079
Once I've picked it up from them, I have to take it to a pharmacy.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:42.000
And then the pharmacist will do their best to find the medication.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:46.480
So just that is monthly housekeeping.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:53.759
Although we don't have to see the psychiatrist every month, we see her every six months now, unless we need a change to medication.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:59.599
But it just takes a phenomenal amount of executive functioning.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:04.640
And I am ADHD and I find executive functioning really hard.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.000
And so I put it off.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:12.319
But then if I put it off too long, I end up not having medication for him because something goes wrong.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.680
I could tell you very boring stories about how many times it's gone wrong.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.480
I won't do that because it is very boring.
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:28.319
But the point is, it's so important for him to be medicated in order to not get into trouble at school, but it's so easy for that part of the system just to fail.
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:30.640
Okay.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:38.559
Education, that's a whole new discussion and topic point, which we can discuss in another discussion.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:48.000
So you mentioned that you yourself decided to get a diagnosis to see actually how you were operating.
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:58.880
The catalyst being for your daughter in particular, to have a someone who she looks up to, she can see is also going through things, and this is how you're dealing with whatnot.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:07.759
Why is neurodiversity getting attraction so much now compared to a few years ago, from your perspective, Kate?
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.680
Because I'll be honest with you.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.640
I'm not as familiar with this space as others.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:27.119
Yes, I've taught, I'm aware, even when I was in education, I'd have students come to me and tell me they are ADHD, they are dyspraxic, have dyslexia.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:38.960
I would have information from the school in regards to children who have medical conditions where they might be mute or they can only do converse via sign language, for example.
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:53.599
Neurodiversity in the 80s, 90s, the perception was for a number of different cultures and countries that okay, if this is how you are, then you're just not built mentally the same like me.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:55.759
Get over it, find a way.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.960
Why is it getting the traction so much now in this day and age, do you think?
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.720
It's all to do with the timeline.
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:09.519
I was trying to quickly search it discreetly because I can't remember the dates.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:16.880
But basically, ADHD has been diagnosable for a little while, not actually for as long as many people think.
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:29.440
And then even when it was first made into a diagnosable condition, the symptoms that they described as having ADHD were based on white boys.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:39.759
And so it made it hard to diagnose people of different ethnicities and people of different ages and genders from diagnosing white boys.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.480
And so then they've been improving it steadily.
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:53.440
So that's one aspect because now they have a way of diagnosing adult women, which before wouldn't we wouldn't have shown up because it wouldn't have been possible.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:00.960
I think the other thing is there's this knock-on effect of our children being diagnosed.
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:05.039
I'm neurodiversity tends to run in families.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:12.079
It's not the only reason that someone might end up to be neurodivergent, but it's one of the greatest links is genetics.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:18.000
So it's likely that if you're neurodivergent, then your children will be neurodivergent.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:26.079
So if you don't know you're neurodivergent and you have children and you see them struggling in school, you probably struggle from school as well.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:32.960
And so then you're going to have this justice feeling coming into it, and you're thinking, it's not fair.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.839
I remember how unfair it was that I struggled in school.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.240
I'm going to want, I want to help my child.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:43.440
And so you do whatever you can to find out what support your child needs.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:47.200
Along that journey, chances are you find out they're neurodivergent.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:53.519
At which point, little flag appears, and you're like, hang on a minute.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.039
I really relate to their experience in school.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.039
Maybe I was neurodivergent.
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:10.559
And so there's a, I think there's a whole wave of parents going through the process because when they recognize it in their children, they recognize it in themselves.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.559
And then they want a diagnosis.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.920
There are so many people who don't want a diagnosis.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:25.599
And I find that really troubling because by not wanting a diagnosis, it adds to the stigma that the labels are a bad thing.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:32.079
So that's like our own community of neurodivergent people basically adding to the stigma.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.079
And there's so much stigma coming from everyone in the world, it's coming from the manosphere, Steve.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:43.359
It's coming from politicians, it's coming from everywhere.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:45.920
We don't need our own community adding to it.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:47.200
Interesting.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.920
You uh you touched on a number of points there.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:26:13.119
I recently was offered to do a do-it profiler, okay, to see whether I had any traits or whether it's not because I think I act in a certain way, shape, or form, but I was offered to do it to see who I am, and I put it off for a good couple of months.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.240
Do you know why?
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:20.400
I have to I'll be honest with you.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.799
I don't know if I wanted to know.
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:31.920
What benefit would have been to me because I have a way about me that's working.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:45.039
I don't see anything forgive me for I don't see anything which is challenging me in a way for me to consider, oh, am I in any way part of the neuro world in general.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.640
However, a friend of mine who's a coach said, just do it.
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:52.319
So I did it last week.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:59.759
And nothing of I'm glad I did it because I shouldn't have been nervous to begin with.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:00.480
Yeah.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:05.519
However, the general phrase that people say, everybody's on the spectrum.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.759
Oh my gosh, that annoys me so much.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:08.319
But carry on.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.799
Everybody's on the spectrum is what you hear.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.640
Everyone's got something of something.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.599
Okay, whether you believe that or not, who knows?
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:22.480
But they said traits of this, traits of that, but it never says you are or you are not.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:29.680
And I thought that some of the wording in how it was phrased was very important to actually make me feel at ease.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:30.480
Yeah.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:40.640
And I think for people who, in my experience, anyway, I wasn't sure, but I had to make that leap of faith into actually just doing it.
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:41.119
Yeah.
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:46.319
And in doing it, I felt very comfortable in answering the questions, honestly, obviously.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.079
So it was very interesting experience for me doing that.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:51.839
What was it like for you?
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.799
What was the process like for you, Kate, when you decided to get diagnosed?
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.759
Was it fairly easy?
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:58.720
Was it challenging?
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:00.400
Was it through the NHS?
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.359
Was it private?
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:10.720
Because obviously there are many adults in particular who are in a working environment who are able to afford a house, car, etc.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.880
But then there are others who aren't.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.119
So what was that process like for you?
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:25.119
And again, you have people saying that everyone's overdiagnosed and that we're putting this huge pressure on the NHS by us all being neurodivergent and what have you.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:27.920
So, yeah, it's not an ideal situation.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.839
You're made to feel like a burden before you even take the first step.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:35.279
The way I did it using something called Right to Choose.
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:51.440
So, right to choose is funded by the NHS, but you don't have to go to an NHS clinic with a psychiatrist and a psychologist and the other services, you can do it via approved providers that you can find online.
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:53.839
And so that's what I did.
00:28:54.079 --> 00:29:04.319
It meant that instead of waiting, I'm still on the NHS waiting list, but when I was on it, after a few months, they sent me an email to say you're on the NHS waiting list.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.119
What we can't tell you how long you'll be on it for.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:13.279
However, we're currently seeing people from, and they gave me a date that was five years before where we were.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.039
I could be on that for a long time.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:20.480
Right to choose, I chose a company who did it, who did the assessment online.
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:24.400
It was very quick, which probably isn't an amazing thing.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:37.279
It would have been better to have a more detailed thorough thing, but it meant that I had a diagnosis within seven months, which was much better for me because all I really actually wanted two things.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:42.559
I wanted my diagnosis, but I also wanted to try medication.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.759
I'm still waiting for the medication bit.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:52.559
So even though I got my diagnosis, I've not come to the front of the queue for medication yet.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.279
So I'm still waiting for that aspect of it.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:04.559
I did get access to some psychoeducation, which was really helpful, learning a bit more about how your brain works and how you might regulate, which was really helpful.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.119
Yeah.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:08.240
Can we go back to the bit about everyone's on the spectrum?
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:09.440
Absolutely.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.319
Thank you.
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:22.240
So it's really problematic because everyone has traits that can be seen as ADHD or autistic traits, and that's absolutely fine.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:28.720
The problem is when people say that everyone's a bit on the spectrum, it really belittles our experience.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:35.359
And it comes down to the word disability, which I hate the word disability, but this is why the word is so important.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:47.279
You can only be ADHD or autistic if the combination of traits that you experience is significant enough to impact your daily tasks, how you carry out your daily tasks.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:52.799
So to be on the spectrum, like the spectrum only starts like when you're disabled.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:59.759
But also, I don't think a linear spectrum is really that helpful either, because I think it's more of a three-dimensional space.
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:06.079
And yes, like the umbrella term neurodiversity includes everyone.
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.000
So everyone is under the umbrella of neurodiversity.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.400
Neurotypical people are under there too.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:18.559
But to be on the spectrum, you have to be disabled, yeah, by your condition.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:21.519
It comes down to the education, doesn't it?
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:21.920
Yeah.
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:23.599
And thorough understanding.
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:28.400
We spoke at a round table which I hosted this week about.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.200
And which I was gutted to miss, and I'm sorry.
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.279
Don't be sorry at all.
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.079
It was for good reason, as we both know.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:44.319
But there's a fear factor of people saying and doing the wrong thing if they're not aware.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:45.759
Yeah.
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:52.960
That's a good and a bad thing because obviously you don't want to offend, but at the same time, you want people to understand.
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:55.599
So, yeah, how do you approach conversation?
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:56.559
Forgive me.
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.319
I'm not sure how to approach this.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.680
So, can you educate me as we belong in the conversation?
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:08.400
But it actually is a nice segue, actually, into something which I said earlier on in regards to the conversation going two different directions.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:14.799
Because you've done fantastic work in your nine-to-five winning awards.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:22.960
What is it from your perspective that companies and employees should be mindful of when it comes to this space?
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.839
That we're all completely different.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:32.880
So it's really hard to put into place systemic changes, but that is where we need changes.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.799
We need changes at the systemic level, not just a person-by-person level.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:45.039
And to see the whole picture, like I've mentioned, if you're neurodivergent, it's likely that when you have children, your children will be neurodivergent.
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.799
And as a neurodivergent person, uh parenting neurodivergent children is perfectly natural.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:58.000
However, parenting neurodivergent children to fit into the neurotypical norm is very difficult.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.839
It requires a lot of executive functioning, which we are challenged in.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.519
And so it can make for a very difficult experience.
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:16.880
And so what I would say is to see the whole picture and not just focus on the person, but on their whole ecosystem of their life and recognize, validate.
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:29.279
Gave a speech last night, and the best thing about it, apart from meeting, was the number of people who came up afterwards and said how seen they feel for the first time and how validated they were.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:42.079
And that's why I do it, because um my whole mission in life now is to help as many neurodivergent people as possible because I can I'm so limited in how I can help my daughter.
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.920
And I put in, I'm ADHD, I can do a thousand things at once.
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:53.920
So I am putting all of the support I possibly can in around my daughter, but I need to be doing something else that's actually making an impact.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.000
And so the way that I do that is by helping other people wherever possible.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:00.000
That's good.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:08.400
Look, we've come to the end of our time, but I do have one last question which I'd like your input on, please.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:14.000
What's a message you can share to those that don't understand neurodiversity?
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.519
Okay, maybe it's this.
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:25.599
So for people who don't understand neurodiversity, empathizing with neurodivergent people can be difficult.
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:33.360
Like you would never say to someone who's wearing glasses, try harder to see, instead of wearing glasses.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:38.239
However, we're always doing that with neurodivergent people.
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:46.000
Try harder to focus, try harder to sit still, try harder to pay attention, to remember what you're meant to, all of those things.
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:47.360
We're doing it all the time.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:58.960
So, what I would say is in the work context, if someone who has a different neurotype to you, whose brain works differently, tells you that they've experienced something in a way and you think that doesn't make any sense.
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:07.519
Just take a breath, take a moment and think, actually, everyone experiences things in a different way and just accept the way that they're saying it.
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.039
No one makes it up.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.840
I just don't know where the purpose for that would be.
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:21.599
So instead of saying you're overreacting or don't be so silly or whatever, actually just accept it and see where that takes you.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:23.599
It's gonna take a lot of patience for many.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:24.800
Yeah, absolutely.
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:32.880
But hopefully, with the growth mindset, it's gonna help you like in so many ways, not just with neurodiversity, it's a really inclusive way of thinking.
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:36.000
It's a great way to think about it, inclusive way of thinking.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.320
Kate, thank you so much for having this discussion with me.
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:58.239
I look forward to hearing and developing our relationship, the NeuroConnect relationship with you and your platforms, and continue to support you on your own personal journey with further books, further meets and greets, and everything you're doing.
00:35:58.400 --> 00:35:59.599
So thank you so much.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.480
Thank you so much.
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:03.440
Is it okay to give a plug to the website as well?
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.360
You've said it, I can't say no.
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:06.079
Absolutely.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.119
That would be me.
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:10.800
The website is neuroxtraordinary.co.uk.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:17.039
So it's got my services on there, but also I'm trying to build that online community where there's information.
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:21.199
Some of the things that didn't fit into the book are on there.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:33.199
And that's what this is all about community supporting communities, not communities blocking other communities because there's one goal, which is better insights for everybody to be able to move forward in one way, shape, or form.
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.719
Thank you for the plug.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:35.440
Thank you.
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:44.159
Part of the in group communities, NeuroConnect is a community dedicated to supporting and empowering neurodiverse talent in the workplace.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:49.599
If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, we'd love it if you could rate, review, and subscribe.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.599
It helps more people find these stories and be part of the conversation.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:56.159
Thanks for listening and see you next time.
