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[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree, being able to have people who are like-minded and will support you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think about my friends, we have rules.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If we have a phone in the vicinity, while we are spending time together, there's a very big reason.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, I'm waiting for a phone call, and I also, you know, I go back to the rules and and boundaries and things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: something that I have set for myself and it's become just a simple habit if I'm picking up my phone and I'm around people even if I'm at work if I'm whatever scenario I might be in I tell them exactly what I'm doing on my phone so that they know that I am intentionally picking this up I'm not doing it because I'm bored or because I'm you know distracted and I'll say my mom sent me a text message I need to respond to her real quick and then I put it down and I'm back in present you know and
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[SPEAKER_01]: being able to be around people who want to understand and to our supportive of that and are really like-minded, it makes a huge difference.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Huge difference.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Since I am Baudin and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast,
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[SPEAKER_00]: We talk a lot about screen time, how much is too much, how to scroll less, and how to put our phones down.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what if the more important question isn't, how many hours you are spending on your phone?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What if it's what is your phone quietly taking your attention away from?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Today I'm joined by Olivia Yokobanus, known online as Olivia Unplugged, who found herself spending eight or nine hours a day scrolling, even outside of her work in social media and marketing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Her shift didn't begin with deleting every app or swearing off technology, it started with asking herself a much bigger question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What do I actually want my life to feel like when nobody is watching?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Olivia and I talk about why changing our relationship with technology requires more than willpower, and how creating intentional systems and boundaries can help plus her claim some of the attention we've unknowingly handed over.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The goal isn't necessarily less technology, it's having more autonomy over when, where and why we use it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because perhaps intentional phone use isn't about achieving the perfect screen time report.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's about making sure we're still choosing how we want our actual life to feel.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But quickly before we get into this encouraging episode with Olivia, I want to share a minimalist free source with all of you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My resource this week is the cookbook every salad ever by Greta Potoleski.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When she says every salad ever, she really means it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I have loved cooking from the stress people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And as I said, she really does mean every salad ever, meaning grains, greens, pasta, beans, a section called the classics, and much more.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're someone that likes to come up with a bowl or a salad from scratch, but if you want just a little bit more assistance, this is a book you should definitely get from the library and to be honest, that's what I did and enjoyed it so much they actually ended up buying copy for our shelf.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I are trying to be a little bit more intentional with our health this fall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In this cookbook has really helped us prioritize more veggies that actually taste delicious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll be sure to include this in the show notes and let me know if you check it out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then lastly, before we get into the conversation, if you have been enjoying the minimalist mom's content, but if yet to leave a rating review, make sure you hit five stars or share the episode with a friend that can benefit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the best ways to support the show, as I know there is so much content to be listening to today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't go and notice that you're here listening week after week
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[SPEAKER_00]: And with that, let's get into this conversation with Olivia.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to ask you here at the beginning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You have started these accounts to document your journey to being a little bit better with your habits regarding your phone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say, do you find the conundrum that so many of us creators find where your journey started you off to not want to be in that realm and now you find yourself in it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, oh my gosh, it's it's such an oxymoron kind of where you're online and your mission is to get people offline or being more mindful of their their time that they do spend online and the way that I have always said it is you know
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[SPEAKER_01]: I would absolutely be that person out there with a big sign saying, like, get out of your phones if that was effective.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But where am I going to find these people online?
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's just the matter of fact.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's complicated.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there's a lot of nuance that has to be considered because of this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm sure you feel that way, too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, well, this gets me to my next first question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have two first questions for you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you have, I want to say probably at least a million dollars gathered amongst everything that you're doing right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm struck by something that you said.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You said that you started asking yourself what you actually wanted life to feel like when nobody was watching.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm curious to know what was happening in your life at that time that made you ask that question to yourself, yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I have been working in social media in marketing for as long as my career has existed and
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[SPEAKER_01]: One of those things was I was always doing market research.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was always scrolling and trying to find the latest trend and the latest thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I recognized that it was I was no longer working.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was spending so much time on my phone and that led into.
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[SPEAKER_01]: every other area of my life where I would be in bed and I'd be sprawling or be the morning and I'd be getting ready and I'd be brushing my teeth and scrolling and that excuse that I had.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like oh well I work in marketing and I need to know all these things really became null and void at the end when I really looked at my life and what I was doing with it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the question that I had to ask myself, who's like, what am I doing with my life and with the like am I am I actually living the life that I desire and my feeling my emotions and my spending time with people am I actually experiencing like human connection every day or am I just continuing to scroll and scroll and scroll and so.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I had been, you know, spending at least eight hours a day on my phone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now I've cut that well in half.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a lot of rules and parameters and boundaries that I have set for myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk all about those today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But that is what has allowed me to actually feel human again and feel like I am in touch with myself, in touch with my needs, my desires, and actually taking time to do the things that I enjoy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and spend time with the people that I love, and it has completely changed my life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It transformed it in the way that once I recognized that there was really, really a problem, I was able to take a step back and create a game plan for myself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You rewired your relationship with your phone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're not saying that you're perfect with it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to share some of those rules and boundaries certainly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But also, I guess what most surprised you before getting into the rules and boundaries.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What most surprised you during that change of habits?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What most surprised me was realizing how
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[SPEAKER_01]: much autonomy, I had just given up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I work with Opul, and we are whole entire mission is to help people actually take back their time in their autonomy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And once I recognize that eight hours a day, nine hours a day,
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[SPEAKER_01]: can add up to years, like tens of years, decades of your life, that really hit me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I realize that I could be spending 30 years of my life scrolling.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm barely 30.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some thinking like, oh, if I continue this habit,
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[SPEAKER_01]: that this is going to be my life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to be spending a third, well, if I'm lucky, a third of my life, on my phone and on these devices, that was really concerning for me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was maybe kind of like a jolt into reality that caused me to stop and say, hold on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We need to take a step back and and actually change things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Was that harder or easier than you expected?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Transparently.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I would say.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There it was harder the first time I tried it because I didn't have any tools.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of just went cold turkey and I said, oh, I'm deleting these apps.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to stop scrolling on Instagram.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do just, you know, one more video and then I'm done.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And what now after all this research that I've done, what you have to recognize is that these companies Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, they have billions of dollars to put
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[SPEAKER_01]: teaching your phone, your computer to really know you well enough to hook you every single time and for an infinite amount of time and our bodies, our brains are not
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[SPEAKER_01]: Wired to be able to combat something like that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we have to recognize that like this really is not a willpower problem and the first time that I tried to stop my habits.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to do it purely off of willpower and purely off of me like white knuckling it and saying no, I'm going to I'm going to do this and I'm going to succeed and it's going to be fine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I tried, you know, the shame route where I'm like, oh, you're terrible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You need to throw your phone away, like, you know, nobody else is like this when that obviously is not the reality.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, there's what it billion people in the world and six billion of them have a smartphone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't everybody problem just about.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, I was definitely the shame and the white knuckling will power.
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[SPEAKER_01]: attempts that were very unsuccessful, but then once I actually recognize that there are tools and there are rules and systems that I can build around these devices, that is when things really started to change for me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which is the perfect segue into your rules and boundaries.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love for you to share some of them here with the listeners.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because we need all the help we need.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, if you have followed any of my content, you will know that I am a huge advocate for Opal so much so that I now work here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And something that I have always loved.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I started using Opal in 2023.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as I was mentioning before, I had been doing, you know, my social media positions in scrolling and market research code on quote, and being able to actually set these rules and boundaries where at 11 p.m. my phone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: is in lockdown mode.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have Instagram.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have TikTok.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have LinkedIn, which, strangely, you know, you'll notice there will be certain apps if you don't have access to Instagram or TikTok, which might be your apps of choice.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden, you're clicking your Gmail.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're all of a sudden organizing your maps, and you're like, why am I doing this?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What is going on?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I really set these rules, and I now at night read, and I get to you don't spend time with my fiance with my dog, and not be sitting on my phone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: watching content that I don't need to be watching or, you know, getting into people's business that I just, I don't even know that I don't care to know about the insides of their lives, you know?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And, and then from that point, I started stacking more and more.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So now, you know, I have a daily commute to work and
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[SPEAKER_01]: I take the metro so I take public transportation and I notice that there were so many people on their phones and so I said, you know what I'm setting a rule.
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[SPEAKER_01]: During my commute times and mornings and in the evenings and I don't have access to any of those apps so now I know that it exists it's there and I don't even try to get on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: on these apps anymore.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I simply pull out my Kindle and I read my book and you know that was something as a kid.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was a huge reader.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I would read all the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My mom would have to like rip a book out of my hands for me to pay attention and I get to go back to that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I get to go back to something that I absolutely loved and I
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[SPEAKER_01]: I now see people, or I know people who will do, you know, crochet or knit while they're on the metro instead, but they, you set up these very specific systems for yourself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think something that we forget is that our iPhone does not come with
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[SPEAKER_01]: with limits and boundaries.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Our iPhone comes essentially, it's an infinite little rectangle that we can do anything and everything with.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And by default, it is made
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[SPEAKER_01]: as a tool, it's absolutely a tool and it's something that's not inherently good or bad, but there's no limits.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have to set those limits and put things in place for us to be able to actually feel our sense of humanity again instead of just being controlled by what I call a slot machine in our pocket.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I started a new rule.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was just telling someone this the other day, but my new rule for my kids going back to school because my boys have to be in two different schools now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I had much earlier, and I'm like, if I'm gonna get it together for how the structure of this morning looks, especially with my home school daughter.
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[SPEAKER_00]: For her co-op, there is so much girl.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I can manage it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm capable, but I'm gonna be far less capable of having to have my phone near me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been leaving my phone in my bedroom charging and I'm able to focus because even a 15 second scroll that adds up to minutes that are precious and I think that hearing you I am more inspired to set some more rules around how I regulate my phone I love listening to audio books when I'm on a long drive, but yeah sometimes I also just like a silent ride.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think that that is probably already one of my biggest takeaways is to set the rules and follow them because I'm seeing a weekend in the school year.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How that's already benefited me so much.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you were kind of talking about that 15 second scroll.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You pick up your phone for something.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is a daily experience for absolutely myself, but for so many people you open your phone for one task.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you see Instagram where you see TikTok and you're like let me just check to see if I got a notification and then you end up scrolling and scrolling you forget what you picked your phone up for in the first place and then you have time gone and it's happening over and over and over again all day every day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Opel is really there to be able to set that boundary for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we have all of these different features that are whether it's a time limit or an open limit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Personally, that is my favorite, the open limit because I have five abilities to open these apps.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because of this very issue where you want to go to your phone, you're supposed to go and respond to a text message.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But you click on Instagram and it just opens up to these.
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[SPEAKER_01]: beautiful vibrant colors and you're like, oh, what's next?
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[SPEAKER_01]: When you have Opal set up, it pops up a little screen and it gives you an option and it tells you you have three opens left today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, it's only 12 o'clock.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm going to want to like maybe check my messages later and then it gives you a moment to stop and say, do I really need this or was this an impulse?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Was it because I'm uncomfortable right now?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it because I'm bored?
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[SPEAKER_01]: or did I even mean to do this?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What was I actually doing and then you can make a conscious choice and have that willpower is not the only thing that you're relying on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now you have something that is preventing you from making a choice that you didn't even intend on making in the first place.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the reason that we have to get so intentional whether we're using O-Bull, I know there's brick too, or setting whatever the iPhone settings as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I saw this quote the other day it says, a goal without a deadline is a wish.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that, I need to write it somewhere as a reminder.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's the same thing with our phones.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a serial, oh, it's a goal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have a deadline, but it's like, if I'm not going to take intentional steps towards it, it's a wish.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be better.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to stay the same.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have to actually implement not the deadline, but I have to implement the steps in that it actually,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really curious.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's used it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You have three children.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What has been the hardest thing in your family as you're navigating raising children in this day and age when it comes to technology devices?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What has been the biggest challenge for you?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, that's a, that is a tough one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say a loaded question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a few things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say one, we don't do the iPads here in the hall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is for vacation, specifically.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like we haven't figured that out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to figure that out because I don't want to.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want it to be pseudo random.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would like it to be consistent.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's on our to-do list.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think one of the things that's really frustrating is when you send them to the grandparents house that it is a time for you too.
17:46.379 --> 17:48.801
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't matter how much you express that to someone.
17:48.821 --> 17:52.405
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess ultimately you could not send the kids to the grandparents house.
17:52.585 --> 17:54.246
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I'm that boundary.
17:54.667 --> 17:56.588
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's kind of frustrating.
17:56.949 --> 17:59.971
[SPEAKER_00]: What they have access to in other spaces, I guess I would say.
18:00.832 --> 18:04.494
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, well, I don't really have super strong boundaries around the television.
18:04.534 --> 18:07.555
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband feels he has a lot more opinions about that than I do.
18:07.595 --> 18:09.196
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I watched Nickelodeon.
18:09.436 --> 18:10.256
[SPEAKER_00]: You're having a try.
18:10.456 --> 18:11.397
[SPEAKER_00]: He might have turned up.
18:11.637 --> 18:12.257
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe well.
18:12.677 --> 18:14.898
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess we're not quite to the full conversation.
18:14.918 --> 18:15.918
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that's what you're getting.
18:15.938 --> 18:19.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think my daughter shall be 12 in a couple of months.
18:19.320 --> 18:22.261
[SPEAKER_00]: And she hasn't asked because she knows it's not a thing.
18:22.481 --> 18:23.502
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's amazing.
18:24.282 --> 18:25.902
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she has a 10-canner room now.
18:25.942 --> 18:31.643
[SPEAKER_00]: We just got that recently, but I'm like, the phone is in social media probably won't happen in my house.
18:32.123 --> 18:32.663
[SPEAKER_00]: Not gunwood.
18:33.043 --> 18:33.484
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
18:33.644 --> 18:35.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I didn't really answer.
18:35.404 --> 18:41.025
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, I think that this is a perfect answer, because I have these conversations with parents.
18:41.185 --> 18:52.107
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a parent yet myself, but I have nine nieces and nephews, and that is a constant conversation that I'm having with my siblings about when they're getting phones.
18:54.127 --> 19:09.955
[SPEAKER_01]: She'll be she's almost six tuned and even just having conversations with her and being like, oh well, no I don't want Instagram or oh I finally got Instagram and now I need to the really set these limits because it is so addictive I'm like I tried to tell you
19:11.456 --> 19:15.199
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's very true and I think that's awesome as for you as a household.
19:15.680 --> 19:21.345
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you are setting these these limits and you're allowing your kids to understand the reasons why.
19:21.365 --> 19:31.013
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that you know you've had plenty of conversations because I bet your 12 year old has come back from school or from friends.
19:31.033 --> 19:33.055
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, well, so when so has an iPhone.
19:33.435 --> 19:34.036
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well,
19:34.912 --> 19:45.460
[SPEAKER_00]: too bad, you know, but if you're around like-minded parents, our nature group has been a foundation specifically for my oldest, we have hung schooled her since first grade and she used in sixth.
19:45.960 --> 19:51.405
[SPEAKER_00]: So for the last five years, our foundational core group, I feel like that I'm a part of, even though we only see them once a week.
19:52.178 --> 19:57.801
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, we know that the kids here don't have that ability, even the older kids.
19:57.881 --> 19:59.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they don't have social media.
19:59.201 --> 20:06.025
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that if you can kind of link arms with other people in your life, I mean, they say that you are like those you surround yourself with.
20:06.705 --> 20:08.846
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say that that's helpful.
20:09.506 --> 20:10.527
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's great.
20:10.787 --> 20:15.789
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree being able to have people who are like minded and will support you.
20:15.809 --> 20:18.311
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about my friends, you know, we have rules.
20:22.438 --> 20:30.945
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we have a phone in the vicinity while we are spending time together, there's a very big reason.
20:31.045 --> 20:38.130
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, I'm waiting for a phone call or and and I also go back to like the rules and and boundaries and things.
20:38.591 --> 20:47.898
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that I have set for myself and it's become just a simple habit if I'm picking up my phone and I'm around people even if I'm at work if I'm whatever scenario I might be in.
20:48.398 --> 21:06.039
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell them exactly what I'm doing on my phone so that they know that I am intentionally picking this up I'm not doing it because I'm bored or because I'm you know distracted and I'll say my mom sent me a text message I need to respond to her real quick and then I put it down and I'm back in present, you know, and
21:06.580 --> 21:17.071
[SPEAKER_01]: being able to be around people who want to understand and to our supportive of that and are really like-minded, it makes a huge difference.
21:17.531 --> 21:18.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge difference.
21:31.058 --> 21:35.864
[SPEAKER_00]: I think another one of our struggles, our kids see what we do and they emulate it.
21:36.364 --> 21:41.450
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my son has definitely said to my husband, and myself, we'll wire you on it.
21:41.650 --> 21:44.013
[SPEAKER_00]: If I can't have a screen, why are you doing that right now?
21:44.493 --> 21:48.918
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually our answer is like, we did all the things we've gotten to bring us to this point.
21:49.479 --> 21:54.463
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also like, yeah, you're right, I don't want to have this double standard that exists.
21:54.564 --> 21:58.527
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely don't want to do it in my car because they're getting closer to the driving age.
21:58.907 --> 22:09.557
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, oh, my gosh, I have to knock that off because I desperately don't want that there is a fine line between yes, we need it for the grocery list and the banking and I have my candle on my phone.
22:10.846 --> 22:12.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Announcing it is a really smart role to have.
22:13.007 --> 22:14.387
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I'm doing on my phone.
22:14.527 --> 22:20.809
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also just think for me, it's kind of out of sight out of mind if I don't carry it with me and the other one of my rules these days.
22:20.829 --> 22:24.111
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I have more rules than I think I don't the back or anyone.
22:24.231 --> 22:28.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I guess my bathroom and now I'm like, no, no, not doing it.
22:28.412 --> 22:30.533
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, foods for that.
22:30.653 --> 22:33.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely, that is the bathroom thing.
22:33.814 --> 22:35.254
[SPEAKER_01]: I call them no phone zones.
22:35.574 --> 22:48.339
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the dinner table, the bathroom, the car, if you're driving, all of these things that were you recognizing, oh, 30 years ago, I wouldn't be walking around with this in this specific place.
22:48.679 --> 22:49.699
[SPEAKER_01]: So, do I really need it?
22:50.159 --> 22:55.541
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even I find myself at home, walking around, holding my phone doing something.
22:55.881 --> 22:57.842
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm leaning against like the counter.
22:57.922 --> 23:04.243
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm leaning against a wall or I'm like halfway sitting on the couch when I really don't need to be doing that.
23:04.603 --> 23:10.165
[SPEAKER_01]: And so oftentimes I'll go home and I'll put my phone in a specific place and I'll leave it there.
23:10.505 --> 23:15.726
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I need to get something, I get up, I go grab it, I'm like holding it in the same place.
23:16.266 --> 23:22.488
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I put it back down and I'm far less likely to be scrolling because then, you know, my fiance will be like,
23:22.980 --> 23:23.640
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing?
23:23.660 --> 23:30.485
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just standing back in the corner in our office and I'm just scrolling.
23:30.925 --> 23:33.307
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're kind of acting weird, what's going on?
23:33.827 --> 23:37.289
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it really is helpful to have those zones.
23:37.369 --> 23:39.151
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's true, like you were just saying,
23:39.811 --> 23:43.473
[SPEAKER_01]: you might have more rules than you realize that you do.
23:43.673 --> 23:48.295
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of the times it's just you recognize something and you say, I don't want to do this anymore.
23:48.655 --> 23:54.658
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing that I had to do for myself, of course, apart from Opel, having that already built in.
23:55.238 --> 23:57.839
[SPEAKER_01]: into my days and into my schedules.
23:58.199 --> 24:09.584
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have people hold me accountable and kind of going back to the point that you're making about parents and how it really is, you have to emulate what you want them to see.
24:10.045 --> 24:13.806
[SPEAKER_01]: My hat goes off to all the parents, you know, in this generation, I
24:15.707 --> 24:44.340
[SPEAKER_01]: I was born in 1997 and you know I had like my Nintendo DS that was like the big thing that I would yes and I'm like oh I can't I I'm like you know trying to play it at 10 30 and night when I'm supposed to be going to sleep and then like you know my mom will come in it's you'll peek to see that I'm you know asleep and you'll see this big glowing light and but like I think that nowadays there's so much more that you have to manage and on top of that
24:46.107 --> 24:51.012
[SPEAKER_01]: Having a phone or the internet, it's not just a kids issue.
24:51.092 --> 24:53.154
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is a human issue.
24:53.234 --> 25:06.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we talk about trying to solve these problems for children, but we have to really start and be honest with ourselves and recognize how we have to solve it for ourselves, first and foremost.
25:06.887 --> 25:08.969
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that parents are
25:09.509 --> 25:26.657
[SPEAKER_01]: you're not just managing your children's relationship with technology, you're having to model that and it looks a lot like learning how to regulate without using your phone or learning how to be vocal about, okay, you're right.
25:26.697 --> 25:28.418
[SPEAKER_01]: I was on my phone when I didn't need to be.
25:28.778 --> 25:29.658
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm putting it down.
25:29.778 --> 25:30.739
[SPEAKER_01]: You put yours down too.
25:30.779 --> 25:31.779
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go do something else.
25:32.479 --> 25:32.620
[SPEAKER_01]: And
25:33.800 --> 26:02.108
[SPEAKER_01]: it's complicated because again we all this is a willpower issue this is a or this is not a willpower issue this is a technological issue something that has been designed to capture our attention all day every day and I'm really curious also about your thoughts on the phone bands and things like yonder pouches all of that is coming up as what we assume to be a solution but it doesn't
26:02.908 --> 26:23.033
[SPEAKER_01]: Kids how to regulate their their feelings and their emotions without you know It takes away a problem that will just be given back to them later without a real solution and so yeah I mean I don't know if like in your in your kids schools if they're having these kinds of issues too But I'd love to hear
26:24.647 --> 26:27.089
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't know about that.
26:27.149 --> 26:30.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the yonder patches that way you get when you go to a comedy show or something?
26:31.172 --> 26:32.213
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, they do that.
26:32.253 --> 26:42.842
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they now have them in schools too where you've got these, the phones are being put in there and then, okay, and they're not effective.
26:43.222 --> 26:43.543
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
26:43.723 --> 26:44.043
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
26:45.324 --> 26:55.295
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm always frustrated when they take my phone into place, but I mean, I understand why all that's to say, yeah, I think it's just a muscle that we need to exercise.
26:55.555 --> 26:57.497
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have to learn how to discipline.
26:57.857 --> 27:02.983
[SPEAKER_00]: I think especially in this day and age, because we just have so much that's fighting for our attention and that we do have to
27:03.603 --> 27:12.525
[SPEAKER_00]: It is harder and it's sense to live in this day and age because even with fast food, like we had arrived on the street and there's so many options that I have to say no too.
27:12.605 --> 27:14.406
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like no, no, no.
27:14.686 --> 27:15.266
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds good.
27:15.286 --> 27:16.286
[SPEAKER_00]: It may be no, no.
27:16.787 --> 27:26.529
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then yeah, it's when you're telling yourself no or depriving yourself so to speak all day long, you, I guess you end up, I don't, I don't really know what I'm trying to say.
27:26.549 --> 27:29.190
[SPEAKER_01]: To keep wanting more in the end, right?
27:29.210 --> 27:29.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:30.150 --> 27:37.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just makes you feel more compulsive or impulsive, but yes, I mean, it is, I'm 38.
27:37.377 --> 27:39.139
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm better at it than I used to be.
27:39.660 --> 27:42.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Think the Lord that I did not have a phone in high school.
27:42.923 --> 27:45.966
[SPEAKER_00]: I had Zenga, I had my space, but
27:47.087 --> 27:55.769
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm really grateful that I'm not growing up where I'm having to make my mistakes via cell phone and not to have full control.
27:55.789 --> 27:57.350
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you said, oh, I know what you said.
27:57.370 --> 28:00.511
[SPEAKER_00]: You were talking about regulation, like that we need it to regulate.
28:00.691 --> 28:03.392
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to talk a little bit about board and before we wrapped up.
28:03.832 --> 28:07.513
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that I found myself really bored towards the end of summer.
28:08.353 --> 28:10.033
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's like, we've done all of the things.
28:10.414 --> 28:12.274
[SPEAKER_00]: I planned the summer for them.
28:12.474 --> 28:13.114
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just bored.
28:13.174 --> 28:14.194
[SPEAKER_00]: I need structure.
28:14.294 --> 28:24.057
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm not on my phone to pass if I myself, like I'm having a hard time getting in this book or maybe I don't want to lay here and some of these uncomfortable feelings that I'm having.
28:24.637 --> 28:32.279
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that in setting boundaries around our phone, we've become bored, which is actually, again, using that muscle.
28:32.359 --> 28:33.459
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what our kids need.
28:33.479 --> 28:36.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Our kids need to learn how to be bored and not use them as pacifiers.
28:36.980 --> 28:38.641
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I kind of did a whole circle there.
28:38.761 --> 28:45.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was perfect, I could jump because, and I love the concept of boredom.
28:45.744 --> 28:54.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the root of creativity and your imagination and strategic thinking.
28:54.589 --> 28:57.310
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are not bored enough in our lives.
28:57.851 --> 29:05.474
[SPEAKER_01]: And it even more uncomfortable because we have all of the stimulation that is happening all day
29:06.755 --> 29:16.643
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in order to be able to actually get more comfortable and actually find like that baseline again, we have to do it in small spurts.
29:16.763 --> 29:22.227
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have a timer that I'll set and you know, sometimes I'll just be scrolling and I'm like, I need to stop.
29:22.347 --> 29:23.288
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to stop right now.
29:23.448 --> 29:28.532
[SPEAKER_01]: So I put a timer on and it blocks like all of my apps and I get up and I go and just do something else.
29:28.592 --> 29:29.233
[SPEAKER_01]: I can journal.
29:29.733 --> 29:43.742
[SPEAKER_01]: I can like, I'll sit and just stare at a wall for a couple minutes and I like live across the street from a park and I'll just go and lay there and like look at the sky, look at the clouds and it feels so weird because these are things that like
29:44.599 --> 29:53.528
[SPEAKER_01]: We either now and our minds feel like we don't have time for because we have a million things to do, especially parents, you know, you're like, when have you had a moment alone?
29:53.548 --> 29:58.594
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if you, you can't even shower by yourself without somebody, maybe something.
29:58.694 --> 30:06.382
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the idea of going and spending five minutes doing nothing, you're like, I had a laundry list of things that I could be doing right now.
30:06.822 --> 30:07.322
[SPEAKER_01]: instead.
30:07.722 --> 30:23.728
[SPEAKER_01]: But what happens is instead we spend five minutes growing, ten minutes growing, 15 minutes growing, when really like what our what our nervous system or our brains need is five minutes of silence or five minutes of just not doing anything.
30:23.748 --> 30:23.808
[SPEAKER_01]: And
30:25.128 --> 30:42.040
[SPEAKER_01]: we take the quick fix of, okay, I'm just gonna get that little, that little dopamine hit from my phone real quick and then you feel better for a moment and then you need it again a moment later and when you actually start implementing boredom into your life,
30:42.780 --> 30:51.870
[SPEAKER_01]: you are able to find that baseline again, lower the amount of dopamine that you're needing to function on a daily basis.
30:52.530 --> 30:56.955
[SPEAKER_01]: And you start finding joy in simple things again.
30:57.556 --> 31:03.142
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't feel like it is this big task of living.
31:03.742 --> 31:04.203
[SPEAKER_01]: anymore.
31:04.343 --> 31:13.389
[SPEAKER_01]: When you can really recognize that like boredom is not a negative thing, it's not something that is a threat to you either.
31:14.010 --> 31:20.074
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beneficial and helpful and will help you be able to regulate your emotions and your feelings.
31:20.214 --> 31:27.359
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course in me and your kids too, leading by example, showing them that we don't always have to have a device in our hands.
31:27.499 --> 31:27.959
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't always
31:32.963 --> 31:34.843
[SPEAKER_01]: we can simply just be.
31:36.384 --> 31:37.924
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great word.
31:38.104 --> 31:46.625
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what author I was speaking to, but they said, they had the word count that they wanted to hit each day and they would sit in the chair.
31:46.725 --> 31:48.166
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I wish I could remember who said this.
31:48.226 --> 31:54.247
[SPEAKER_00]: They would sit in their chair until they hit it and not be allowed to touch their phone to do anything else.
31:54.267 --> 31:58.647
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to sit in the chair and remain bored because that's where creativity grows.
31:58.687 --> 32:00.628
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where it's like who knows where this
32:02.548 --> 32:15.172
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just thought that was probably really painful a little bit like sitting there, but again, what a great way to practice boredom patients and just allowing for it to come.
32:15.532 --> 32:19.773
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, absolutely in that pain in the end, it gets easier and easier.
32:19.793 --> 32:20.813
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like exercising.
32:21.113 --> 32:29.536
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to actually put that muscle under tension and there is pain momentarily, but then you get stronger and stronger and things get easier and easier.
32:29.956 --> 32:31.258
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's the same with boredom.
32:31.618 --> 32:33.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Your brain is going to panic.
32:33.660 --> 32:35.703
[SPEAKER_01]: For some it's going to be like, what am I doing?
32:36.023 --> 32:36.624
[SPEAKER_01]: I need help.
32:36.984 --> 32:38.106
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be moved.
32:38.206 --> 32:40.068
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be taken care of and feel better.
32:40.509 --> 32:43.512
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, oh, I actually don't need to be panicking right now.
32:43.552 --> 32:44.593
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm okay.
32:44.854 --> 32:45.474
[SPEAKER_01]: This is nice.
32:45.635 --> 32:45.915
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:45.955 --> 32:46.876
[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually feels good.
32:46.896 --> 32:47.457
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be right now.
32:48.090 --> 32:48.810
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes.
32:49.570 --> 32:51.771
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Olivia, where can listeners?
32:51.811 --> 32:55.752
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we're talking about being online, but for the five times the Opal gives us to be online.
32:55.812 --> 32:58.153
[SPEAKER_00]: Where can I find when they yes?
32:58.413 --> 32:58.933
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
32:59.013 --> 33:02.134
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find me on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
33:02.294 --> 33:05.895
[SPEAKER_01]: My handles are Olivia.unplugged, except for Instagram.
33:05.935 --> 33:08.316
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Olivia.unplugged.it.
33:08.956 --> 33:14.578
[SPEAKER_01]: And I make long-form videos, short-form videos, and all of my videos are really focused on
33:15.198 --> 33:28.353
[SPEAKER_01]: neuroscience and psychology and really understanding why we do what we do and making it understandable for people where it doesn't have to be this big complicated thing.
33:28.453 --> 33:34.560
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's really practical and I just simply meet people where they are, which is on social media.
33:35.020 --> 33:38.404
[SPEAKER_01]: And oftentimes I do tell you I'm like, okay, it's time for you to get offline now.
33:38.604 --> 33:39.946
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for you to unplug.
33:40.406 --> 33:48.675
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's always an amazing conversation and my goal is always to leave people with something rather than feeling like they've been that something's been taken from them.
33:49.580 --> 33:50.601
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so good.
33:50.962 --> 33:55.847
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just quickly as we wrap things up, I asked my guests two questions here at the very end of every episode.
33:55.967 --> 34:01.853
[SPEAKER_00]: And the first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life, outside of Opel, that you would recommend to the listeners?
34:02.213 --> 34:03.074
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, there's no such thing.
34:03.134 --> 34:05.077
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, what is a beneficial resource?
34:05.877 --> 34:06.938
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I got to say this.
34:07.338 --> 34:08.119
[SPEAKER_01]: This is crazy.
34:08.139 --> 34:10.881
[SPEAKER_01]: I love PubMed.
34:10.901 --> 34:26.773
[SPEAKER_01]: I love PubMed, which is, you know, it's an entire database of medical journals and research and so you are able to go in and have access to all of these different studies and that is where I have done so much.
34:27.253 --> 34:31.737
[SPEAKER_01]: research of, you know, the things that I talk about on my channels.
34:31.778 --> 34:40.326
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll see, as you watch my videos, I'm always crediting and coding, you know, where I found this, what this research is.
34:40.926 --> 34:46.492
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's so fun because it's not just about neuroscience or, you know, you think about, like,
34:47.032 --> 34:52.116
[SPEAKER_01]: medical journals or studies and you think of this, you know, really complex, complicated thing.
34:52.736 --> 35:04.224
[SPEAKER_01]: I read a study that happened in the UK about people who knit and how, you know, their lives are benefited by sitting and doing something with their hands.
35:04.744 --> 35:11.449
[SPEAKER_01]: It was written in like playing English was not too complicated and I learned something and I then was able to tell somebody else about it.
35:16.252 --> 35:18.194
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool.
35:18.254 --> 35:21.657
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be sure to check it out and I'll be on the show on its full listeners last question.
35:21.697 --> 35:23.459
[SPEAKER_00]: What is something you can't stop talking about?
35:28.667 --> 35:30.368
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I can't stop talking about this.
35:30.728 --> 35:45.473
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, it really truly is the center of so many conversations and I can't stop talking about how social media phones technology, it is a tool and
35:46.033 --> 35:52.338
[SPEAKER_01]: we can harness it as a tool, learn how to use it in a beneficial way.
35:52.418 --> 35:55.340
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Diane, I think that you're a great example of that.
35:55.780 --> 36:02.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Having a podcast being able to use it to amplify different conversations and teach people things.
36:02.525 --> 36:10.610
[SPEAKER_01]: And there there's always a good side of things and being able to lean more into that and believe the best and work towards the best.
36:11.291 --> 36:11.931
[SPEAKER_01]: That is something
36:14.890 --> 36:15.230
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:15.330 --> 36:15.650
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:16.010 --> 36:17.231
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you for saying that.
36:17.451 --> 36:19.972
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I just really appreciate the work that you're doing.
36:20.012 --> 36:23.133
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, kind of full circle to the question I asked you at the beginning.
36:23.273 --> 36:27.074
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that you do do a really good balance there of encouraging people.
36:27.134 --> 36:32.355
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this is where we are, we aren't outside holding those signs because you're only going to reach a handful of people.
36:32.455 --> 36:39.097
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just appreciate the balance that you're taking and the intentionality that you're taking here while being in this wrong.
36:39.257 --> 36:40.098
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for joining me.
36:46.098 --> 36:47.339
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of the episode?
36:47.519 --> 36:49.059
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
36:49.079 --> 37:07.748
[SPEAKER_00]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
37:08.408 --> 37:19.813
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
37:20.454 --> 37:29.718
[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.
00:00.131 --> 00:05.097
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree, being able to have people who are like-minded and will support you.
00:05.117 --> 00:07.820
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about my friends, we have rules.
00:08.000 --> 00:14.006
[SPEAKER_01]: If we have a phone in the vicinity, while we are spending time together, there's a very big reason.
00:14.106 --> 00:21.715
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, I'm waiting for a phone call, and I also, you know, I go back to the rules and and boundaries and things.
00:22.015 --> 00:49.167
[SPEAKER_01]: something that I have set for myself and it's become just a simple habit if I'm picking up my phone and I'm around people even if I'm at work if I'm whatever scenario I might be in I tell them exactly what I'm doing on my phone so that they know that I am intentionally picking this up I'm not doing it because I'm bored or because I'm you know distracted and I'll say my mom sent me a text message I need to respond to her real quick and then I put it down and I'm back in present you know and
00:49.727 --> 00:59.379
[SPEAKER_01]: being able to be around people who want to understand and to our supportive of that and are really like-minded, it makes a huge difference.
00:59.860 --> 01:00.480
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge difference.
01:01.181 --> 01:04.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Since I am Baudin and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast,
01:05.086 --> 01:10.410
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk a lot about screen time, how much is too much, how to scroll less, and how to put our phones down.
01:10.930 --> 01:15.013
[SPEAKER_00]: But what if the more important question isn't, how many hours you are spending on your phone?
01:15.493 --> 01:18.995
[SPEAKER_00]: What if it's what is your phone quietly taking your attention away from?
01:19.536 --> 01:30.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Today I'm joined by Olivia Yokobanus, known online as Olivia Unplugged, who found herself spending eight or nine hours a day scrolling, even outside of her work in social media and marketing.
01:31.043 --> 01:37.725
[SPEAKER_00]: Her shift didn't begin with deleting every app or swearing off technology, it started with asking herself a much bigger question.
01:38.245 --> 01:41.526
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I actually want my life to feel like when nobody is watching?
01:42.387 --> 01:52.470
[SPEAKER_00]: Olivia and I talk about why changing our relationship with technology requires more than willpower, and how creating intentional systems and boundaries can help plus her claim some of the attention we've unknowingly handed over.
01:52.930 --> 01:59.414
[SPEAKER_00]: The goal isn't necessarily less technology, it's having more autonomy over when, where and why we use it.
01:59.814 --> 02:03.836
[SPEAKER_00]: Because perhaps intentional phone use isn't about achieving the perfect screen time report.
02:04.257 --> 02:08.439
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about making sure we're still choosing how we want our actual life to feel.
02:09.060 --> 02:14.303
[SPEAKER_00]: But quickly before we get into this encouraging episode with Olivia, I want to share a minimalist free source with all of you.
02:15.123 --> 02:19.808
[SPEAKER_00]: My resource this week is the cookbook every salad ever by Greta Potoleski.
02:20.208 --> 02:23.331
[SPEAKER_00]: When she says every salad ever, she really means it.
02:23.712 --> 02:26.014
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I have loved cooking from the stress people.
02:26.274 --> 02:34.963
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I said, she really does mean every salad ever, meaning grains, greens, pasta, beans, a section called the classics, and much more.
02:35.303 --> 02:47.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're someone that likes to come up with a bowl or a salad from scratch, but if you want just a little bit more assistance, this is a book you should definitely get from the library and to be honest, that's what I did and enjoyed it so much they actually ended up buying copy for our shelf.
02:47.915 --> 02:50.978
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I are trying to be a little bit more intentional with our health this fall.
02:51.378 --> 02:55.661
[SPEAKER_00]: In this cookbook has really helped us prioritize more veggies that actually taste delicious.
02:55.701 --> 02:58.543
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll be sure to include this in the show notes and let me know if you check it out.
02:59.004 --> 03:09.231
[SPEAKER_00]: And then lastly, before we get into the conversation, if you have been enjoying the minimalist mom's content, but if yet to leave a rating review, make sure you hit five stars or share the episode with a friend that can benefit.
03:09.532 --> 03:14.675
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the best ways to support the show, as I know there is so much content to be listening to today.
03:14.715 --> 03:17.397
[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't go and notice that you're here listening week after week
03:21.120 --> 03:23.942
[SPEAKER_00]: And with that, let's get into this conversation with Olivia.
03:23.962 --> 03:32.827
[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to ask you here at the beginning.
03:33.628 --> 03:41.672
[SPEAKER_00]: You have started these accounts to document your journey to being a little bit better with your habits regarding your phone.
03:42.113 --> 03:49.617
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say, do you find the conundrum that so many of us creators find where your journey started you off to not want to be in that realm and now you find yourself in it?
03:49.937 --> 04:06.337
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, oh my gosh, it's it's such an oxymoron kind of where you're online and your mission is to get people offline or being more mindful of their their time that they do spend online and the way that I have always said it is you know
04:07.398 --> 04:14.184
[SPEAKER_01]: I would absolutely be that person out there with a big sign saying, like, get out of your phones if that was effective.
04:14.505 --> 04:17.127
[SPEAKER_01]: But where am I going to find these people online?
04:17.688 --> 04:19.329
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just the matter of fact.
04:19.849 --> 04:22.392
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's complicated.
04:22.732 --> 04:27.737
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there's a lot of nuance that has to be considered because of this.
04:27.957 --> 04:29.818
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm sure you feel that way, too.
04:29.838 --> 04:30.039
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:31.326 --> 04:32.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
04:32.546 --> 04:36.308
[SPEAKER_00]: And, well, this gets me to my next first question.
04:36.328 --> 04:38.388
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two first questions for you.
04:38.408 --> 04:43.710
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have, I want to say probably at least a million dollars gathered amongst everything that you're doing right now.
04:43.810 --> 04:45.511
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm struck by something that you said.
04:45.571 --> 04:51.913
[SPEAKER_00]: You said that you started asking yourself what you actually wanted life to feel like when nobody was watching.
04:52.733 --> 04:58.577
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm curious to know what was happening in your life at that time that made you ask that question to yourself, yes.
04:58.737 --> 04:59.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
04:59.417 --> 05:06.662
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I have been working in social media in marketing for as long as my career has existed and
05:07.963 --> 05:11.327
[SPEAKER_01]: One of those things was I was always doing market research.
05:11.367 --> 05:16.133
[SPEAKER_01]: I was always scrolling and trying to find the latest trend and the latest thing.
05:16.353 --> 05:20.618
[SPEAKER_01]: And I recognized that it was I was no longer working.
05:20.798 --> 05:24.042
[SPEAKER_01]: I was spending so much time on my phone and that led into.
05:25.183 --> 05:35.549
[SPEAKER_01]: every other area of my life where I would be in bed and I'd be sprawling or be the morning and I'd be getting ready and I'd be brushing my teeth and scrolling and that excuse that I had.
05:35.629 --> 05:45.055
[SPEAKER_01]: Like oh well I work in marketing and I need to know all these things really became null and void at the end when I really looked at my life and what I was doing with it.
05:45.735 --> 06:08.087
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question that I had to ask myself, who's like, what am I doing with my life and with the like am I am I actually living the life that I desire and my feeling my emotions and my spending time with people am I actually experiencing like human connection every day or am I just continuing to scroll and scroll and scroll and so.
06:08.927 --> 06:12.888
[SPEAKER_01]: I had been, you know, spending at least eight hours a day on my phone.
06:13.428 --> 06:16.009
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I've cut that well in half.
06:16.189 --> 06:21.930
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a lot of rules and parameters and boundaries that I have set for myself.
06:22.010 --> 06:23.851
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk all about those today.
06:24.311 --> 06:37.694
[SPEAKER_01]: But that is what has allowed me to actually feel human again and feel like I am in touch with myself, in touch with my needs, my desires, and actually taking time to do the things that I enjoy.
06:38.366 --> 06:43.209
[SPEAKER_01]: and spend time with the people that I love, and it has completely changed my life.
06:43.510 --> 06:52.736
[SPEAKER_01]: It transformed it in the way that once I recognized that there was really, really a problem, I was able to take a step back and create a game plan for myself.
06:53.765 --> 06:56.646
[SPEAKER_00]: You rewired your relationship with your phone.
06:56.766 --> 06:58.387
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not saying that you're perfect with it.
06:58.807 --> 07:01.849
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to share some of those rules and boundaries certainly.
07:02.269 --> 07:06.851
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, I guess what most surprised you before getting into the rules and boundaries.
07:06.891 --> 07:09.412
[SPEAKER_00]: What most surprised you during that change of habits?
07:12.434 --> 07:14.455
[SPEAKER_01]: What most surprised me was realizing how
07:17.571 --> 07:21.255
[SPEAKER_01]: much autonomy, I had just given up.
07:21.276 --> 07:30.266
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I work with Opul, and we are whole entire mission is to help people actually take back their time in their autonomy.
07:30.907 --> 07:35.412
[SPEAKER_01]: And once I recognize that eight hours a day, nine hours a day,
07:36.333 --> 07:44.499
[SPEAKER_01]: can add up to years, like tens of years, decades of your life, that really hit me.
07:44.819 --> 07:49.723
[SPEAKER_01]: And I realize that I could be spending 30 years of my life scrolling.
07:49.823 --> 07:51.084
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm barely 30.
07:51.564 --> 07:54.747
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some thinking like, oh, if I continue this habit,
07:55.127 --> 07:56.889
[SPEAKER_01]: that this is going to be my life.
07:57.449 --> 08:07.018
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to be spending a third, well, if I'm lucky, a third of my life, on my phone and on these devices, that was really concerning for me.
08:07.658 --> 08:13.363
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was maybe kind of like a jolt into reality that caused me to stop and say, hold on.
08:13.743 --> 08:17.547
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to take a step back and and actually change things.
08:18.373 --> 08:21.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that harder or easier than you expected?
08:21.320 --> 08:21.981
[SPEAKER_00]: Transparently.
08:22.001 --> 08:23.144
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
08:23.264 --> 08:24.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I would say.
08:25.352 --> 08:29.355
[SPEAKER_01]: There it was harder the first time I tried it because I didn't have any tools.
08:29.675 --> 08:33.418
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of just went cold turkey and I said, oh, I'm deleting these apps.
08:33.458 --> 08:35.819
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to stop scrolling on Instagram.
08:35.959 --> 08:38.961
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do just, you know, one more video and then I'm done.
08:39.262 --> 08:53.371
[SPEAKER_01]: And what now after all this research that I've done, what you have to recognize is that these companies Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, they have billions of dollars to put
08:55.335 --> 09:10.363
[SPEAKER_01]: teaching your phone, your computer to really know you well enough to hook you every single time and for an infinite amount of time and our bodies, our brains are not
09:10.823 --> 09:14.426
[SPEAKER_01]: Wired to be able to combat something like that.
09:14.447 --> 09:23.134
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have to recognize that like this really is not a willpower problem and the first time that I tried to stop my habits.
09:23.815 --> 09:33.964
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to do it purely off of willpower and purely off of me like white knuckling it and saying no, I'm going to I'm going to do this and I'm going to succeed and it's going to be fine.
09:34.644 --> 09:34.884
[SPEAKER_01]: And then.
09:35.765 --> 09:38.747
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried, you know, the shame route where I'm like, oh, you're terrible.
09:38.767 --> 09:44.569
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to throw your phone away, like, you know, nobody else is like this when that obviously is not the reality.
09:44.609 --> 09:49.972
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, there's what it billion people in the world and six billion of them have a smartphone.
09:50.432 --> 09:53.113
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't everybody problem just about.
09:54.094 --> 09:58.296
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, I was definitely the shame and the white knuckling will power.
09:59.117 --> 10:13.417
[SPEAKER_01]: attempts that were very unsuccessful, but then once I actually recognize that there are tools and there are rules and systems that I can build around these devices, that is when things really started to change for me.
10:14.628 --> 10:17.489
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which is the perfect segue into your rules and boundaries.
10:17.529 --> 10:19.550
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love for you to share some of them here with the listeners.
10:19.570 --> 10:20.611
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we need all the help we need.
10:20.651 --> 10:21.491
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
10:21.551 --> 10:31.356
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, if you have followed any of my content, you will know that I am a huge advocate for Opal so much so that I now work here.
10:31.616 --> 10:34.758
[SPEAKER_01]: And something that I have always loved.
10:34.998 --> 10:36.438
[SPEAKER_01]: I started using Opal in 2023.
10:38.040 --> 10:55.300
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I was mentioning before, I had been doing, you know, my social media positions in scrolling and market research code on quote, and being able to actually set these rules and boundaries where at 11 p.m. my phone.
10:56.081 --> 10:57.584
[SPEAKER_01]: is in lockdown mode.
10:57.684 --> 10:58.825
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have Instagram.
10:58.946 --> 11:00.288
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have TikTok.
11:00.328 --> 11:09.341
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have LinkedIn, which, strangely, you know, you'll notice there will be certain apps if you don't have access to Instagram or TikTok, which might be your apps of choice.
11:09.601 --> 11:11.564
[SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden, you're clicking your Gmail.
11:12.285 --> 11:18.007
[SPEAKER_01]: You're all of a sudden organizing your maps, and you're like, why am I doing this?
11:18.067 --> 11:18.827
[SPEAKER_01]: What is going on?
11:19.407 --> 11:30.050
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I really set these rules, and I now at night read, and I get to you don't spend time with my fiance with my dog, and not be sitting on my phone.
11:30.650 --> 11:41.577
[SPEAKER_01]: watching content that I don't need to be watching or, you know, getting into people's business that I just, I don't even know that I don't care to know about the insides of their lives, you know?
11:41.757 --> 11:46.680
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and then from that point, I started stacking more and more.
11:46.800 --> 11:51.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So now, you know, I have a daily commute to work and
11:51.803 --> 12:00.666
[SPEAKER_01]: I take the metro so I take public transportation and I notice that there were so many people on their phones and so I said, you know what I'm setting a rule.
12:01.606 --> 12:11.369
[SPEAKER_01]: During my commute times and mornings and in the evenings and I don't have access to any of those apps so now I know that it exists it's there and I don't even try to get on.
12:11.989 --> 12:12.989
[SPEAKER_01]: on these apps anymore.
12:13.329 --> 12:19.631
[SPEAKER_01]: I simply pull out my Kindle and I read my book and you know that was something as a kid.
12:20.171 --> 12:21.652
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a huge reader.
12:21.692 --> 12:22.912
[SPEAKER_01]: I would read all the time.
12:22.952 --> 12:29.494
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom would have to like rip a book out of my hands for me to pay attention and I get to go back to that.
12:29.554 --> 12:32.295
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to go back to something that I absolutely loved and I
12:32.675 --> 12:44.642
[SPEAKER_01]: I now see people, or I know people who will do, you know, crochet or knit while they're on the metro instead, but they, you set up these very specific systems for yourself.
12:44.742 --> 12:50.045
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think something that we forget is that our iPhone does not come with
12:50.803 --> 12:52.826
[SPEAKER_01]: with limits and boundaries.
12:53.387 --> 13:01.439
[SPEAKER_01]: Our iPhone comes essentially, it's an infinite little rectangle that we can do anything and everything with.
13:01.719 --> 13:04.884
[SPEAKER_01]: And by default, it is made
13:05.905 --> 13:12.671
[SPEAKER_01]: as a tool, it's absolutely a tool and it's something that's not inherently good or bad, but there's no limits.
13:12.911 --> 13:27.123
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have to set those limits and put things in place for us to be able to actually feel our sense of humanity again instead of just being controlled by what I call a slot machine in our pocket.
13:29.022 --> 13:29.822
[SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely.
13:30.382 --> 13:31.463
[SPEAKER_00]: I started a new rule.
13:31.483 --> 13:39.185
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just telling someone this the other day, but my new rule for my kids going back to school because my boys have to be in two different schools now.
13:39.665 --> 13:47.108
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I had much earlier, and I'm like, if I'm gonna get it together for how the structure of this morning looks, especially with my home school daughter.
13:47.148 --> 13:48.768
[SPEAKER_00]: For her co-op, there is so much girl.
13:48.888 --> 13:49.789
[SPEAKER_00]: I can manage it.
13:49.909 --> 13:53.510
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm capable, but I'm gonna be far less capable of having to have my phone near me.
13:54.070 --> 14:16.989
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been leaving my phone in my bedroom charging and I'm able to focus because even a 15 second scroll that adds up to minutes that are precious and I think that hearing you I am more inspired to set some more rules around how I regulate my phone I love listening to audio books when I'm on a long drive, but yeah sometimes I also just like a silent ride.
14:17.329 --> 14:25.758
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think that that is probably already one of my biggest takeaways is to set the rules and follow them because I'm seeing a weekend in the school year.
14:25.898 --> 14:27.720
[SPEAKER_00]: How that's already benefited me so much.
14:27.740 --> 14:28.140
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
14:28.380 --> 14:29.041
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
14:29.442 --> 14:31.964
[SPEAKER_01]: And you were kind of talking about that 15 second scroll.
14:32.004 --> 14:33.486
[SPEAKER_01]: You pick up your phone for something.
14:34.026 --> 14:40.152
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is a daily experience for absolutely myself, but for so many people you open your phone for one task.
14:40.933 --> 14:58.883
[SPEAKER_01]: And you see Instagram where you see TikTok and you're like let me just check to see if I got a notification and then you end up scrolling and scrolling you forget what you picked your phone up for in the first place and then you have time gone and it's happening over and over and over again all day every day.
14:59.543 --> 15:04.205
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Opel is really there to be able to set that boundary for you.
15:04.525 --> 15:09.407
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have all of these different features that are whether it's a time limit or an open limit.
15:09.607 --> 15:16.389
[SPEAKER_01]: Personally, that is my favorite, the open limit because I have five abilities to open these apps.
15:16.509 --> 15:22.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of this very issue where you want to go to your phone, you're supposed to go and respond to a text message.
15:22.271 --> 15:24.692
[SPEAKER_01]: But you click on Instagram and it just opens up to these.
15:25.212 --> 15:27.992
[SPEAKER_01]: beautiful vibrant colors and you're like, oh, what's next?
15:28.553 --> 15:37.114
[SPEAKER_01]: When you have Opal set up, it pops up a little screen and it gives you an option and it tells you you have three opens left today.
15:37.534 --> 15:39.434
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, it's only 12 o'clock.
15:39.735 --> 15:48.596
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm going to want to like maybe check my messages later and then it gives you a moment to stop and say, do I really need this or was this an impulse?
15:49.016 --> 15:51.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it because I'm uncomfortable right now?
15:51.657 --> 15:53.657
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it because I'm bored?
15:54.197 --> 15:56.239
[SPEAKER_01]: or did I even mean to do this?
15:56.539 --> 16:04.407
[SPEAKER_01]: What was I actually doing and then you can make a conscious choice and have that willpower is not the only thing that you're relying on.
16:04.467 --> 16:11.033
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you have something that is preventing you from making a choice that you didn't even intend on making in the first place.
16:12.020 --> 16:21.254
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the reason that we have to get so intentional whether we're using O-Bull, I know there's brick too, or setting whatever the iPhone settings as well.
16:21.735 --> 16:26.402
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw this quote the other day it says, a goal without a deadline is a wish.
16:27.600 --> 16:31.621
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that, I need to write it somewhere as a reminder.
16:32.182 --> 16:34.442
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's the same thing with our phones.
16:34.682 --> 16:36.703
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a serial, oh, it's a goal.
16:36.903 --> 16:44.245
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have a deadline, but it's like, if I'm not going to take intentional steps towards it, it's a wish.
16:45.086 --> 16:46.186
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be better.
16:46.326 --> 16:47.546
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to stay the same.
16:47.967 --> 16:53.788
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to actually implement not the deadline, but I have to implement the steps in that it actually,
16:56.049 --> 16:57.530
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
16:57.670 --> 16:58.931
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really curious.
16:58.951 --> 16:59.432
[SPEAKER_01]: He's used it.
16:59.452 --> 17:00.273
[SPEAKER_01]: You have three children.
17:00.433 --> 17:00.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
17:00.993 --> 17:01.353
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
17:01.774 --> 17:02.014
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
17:02.374 --> 17:12.563
[SPEAKER_01]: What has been the hardest thing in your family as you're navigating raising children in this day and age when it comes to technology devices?
17:12.603 --> 17:14.924
[SPEAKER_01]: What has been the biggest challenge for you?
17:15.705 --> 17:17.528
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, that's a, that is a tough one.
17:17.648 --> 17:19.230
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say a loaded question.
17:19.770 --> 17:20.051
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:20.111 --> 17:21.132
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a few things.
17:21.232 --> 17:25.738
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say one, we don't do the iPads here in the hall.
17:25.958 --> 17:28.121
[SPEAKER_00]: That is for vacation, specifically.
17:28.141 --> 17:30.624
[SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like we haven't figured that out.
17:30.684 --> 17:32.647
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to figure that out because I don't want to.
17:33.748 --> 17:35.229
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want it to be pseudo random.
17:35.350 --> 17:36.551
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like it to be consistent.
17:36.671 --> 17:37.812
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's on our to-do list.
17:38.272 --> 17:45.979
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think one of the things that's really frustrating is when you send them to the grandparents house that it is a time for you too.
17:46.379 --> 17:48.801
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't matter how much you express that to someone.
17:48.821 --> 17:52.405
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess ultimately you could not send the kids to the grandparents house.
17:52.585 --> 17:54.246
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I'm that boundary.
17:54.667 --> 17:56.588
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's kind of frustrating.
17:56.949 --> 17:59.971
[SPEAKER_00]: What they have access to in other spaces, I guess I would say.
18:00.832 --> 18:04.494
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, well, I don't really have super strong boundaries around the television.
18:04.534 --> 18:07.555
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband feels he has a lot more opinions about that than I do.
18:07.595 --> 18:09.196
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I watched Nickelodeon.
18:09.436 --> 18:10.256
[SPEAKER_00]: You're having a try.
18:10.456 --> 18:11.397
[SPEAKER_00]: He might have turned up.
18:11.637 --> 18:12.257
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe well.
18:12.677 --> 18:14.898
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess we're not quite to the full conversation.
18:14.918 --> 18:15.918
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that's what you're getting.
18:15.938 --> 18:19.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think my daughter shall be 12 in a couple of months.
18:19.320 --> 18:22.261
[SPEAKER_00]: And she hasn't asked because she knows it's not a thing.
18:22.481 --> 18:23.502
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's amazing.
18:24.282 --> 18:25.902
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she has a 10-canner room now.
18:25.942 --> 18:31.643
[SPEAKER_00]: We just got that recently, but I'm like, the phone is in social media probably won't happen in my house.
18:32.123 --> 18:32.663
[SPEAKER_00]: Not gunwood.
18:33.043 --> 18:33.484
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
18:33.644 --> 18:35.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I didn't really answer.
18:35.404 --> 18:41.025
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, I think that this is a perfect answer, because I have these conversations with parents.
18:41.185 --> 18:52.107
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a parent yet myself, but I have nine nieces and nephews, and that is a constant conversation that I'm having with my siblings about when they're getting phones.
18:54.127 --> 19:09.955
[SPEAKER_01]: She'll be she's almost six tuned and even just having conversations with her and being like, oh well, no I don't want Instagram or oh I finally got Instagram and now I need to the really set these limits because it is so addictive I'm like I tried to tell you
19:11.456 --> 19:15.199
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's very true and I think that's awesome as for you as a household.
19:15.680 --> 19:21.345
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you are setting these these limits and you're allowing your kids to understand the reasons why.
19:21.365 --> 19:31.013
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that you know you've had plenty of conversations because I bet your 12 year old has come back from school or from friends.
19:31.033 --> 19:33.055
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, well, so when so has an iPhone.
19:33.435 --> 19:34.036
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well,
19:34.912 --> 19:45.460
[SPEAKER_00]: too bad, you know, but if you're around like-minded parents, our nature group has been a foundation specifically for my oldest, we have hung schooled her since first grade and she used in sixth.
19:45.960 --> 19:51.405
[SPEAKER_00]: So for the last five years, our foundational core group, I feel like that I'm a part of, even though we only see them once a week.
19:52.178 --> 19:57.801
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, we know that the kids here don't have that ability, even the older kids.
19:57.881 --> 19:59.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they don't have social media.
19:59.201 --> 20:06.025
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that if you can kind of link arms with other people in your life, I mean, they say that you are like those you surround yourself with.
20:06.705 --> 20:08.846
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say that that's helpful.
20:09.506 --> 20:10.527
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's great.
20:10.787 --> 20:15.789
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree being able to have people who are like minded and will support you.
20:15.809 --> 20:18.311
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about my friends, you know, we have rules.
20:22.438 --> 20:30.945
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we have a phone in the vicinity while we are spending time together, there's a very big reason.
20:31.045 --> 20:38.130
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, I'm waiting for a phone call or and and I also go back to like the rules and and boundaries and things.
20:38.591 --> 20:47.898
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that I have set for myself and it's become just a simple habit if I'm picking up my phone and I'm around people even if I'm at work if I'm whatever scenario I might be in.
20:48.398 --> 21:06.039
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell them exactly what I'm doing on my phone so that they know that I am intentionally picking this up I'm not doing it because I'm bored or because I'm you know distracted and I'll say my mom sent me a text message I need to respond to her real quick and then I put it down and I'm back in present, you know, and
21:06.580 --> 21:17.071
[SPEAKER_01]: being able to be around people who want to understand and to our supportive of that and are really like-minded, it makes a huge difference.
21:17.531 --> 21:18.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge difference.
21:31.058 --> 21:35.864
[SPEAKER_00]: I think another one of our struggles, our kids see what we do and they emulate it.
21:36.364 --> 21:41.450
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my son has definitely said to my husband, and myself, we'll wire you on it.
21:41.650 --> 21:44.013
[SPEAKER_00]: If I can't have a screen, why are you doing that right now?
21:44.493 --> 21:48.918
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually our answer is like, we did all the things we've gotten to bring us to this point.
21:49.479 --> 21:54.463
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also like, yeah, you're right, I don't want to have this double standard that exists.
21:54.564 --> 21:58.527
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely don't want to do it in my car because they're getting closer to the driving age.
21:58.907 --> 22:09.557
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, oh, my gosh, I have to knock that off because I desperately don't want that there is a fine line between yes, we need it for the grocery list and the banking and I have my candle on my phone.
22:10.846 --> 22:12.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Announcing it is a really smart role to have.
22:13.007 --> 22:14.387
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I'm doing on my phone.
22:14.527 --> 22:20.809
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also just think for me, it's kind of out of sight out of mind if I don't carry it with me and the other one of my rules these days.
22:20.829 --> 22:24.111
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I have more rules than I think I don't the back or anyone.
22:24.231 --> 22:28.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I guess my bathroom and now I'm like, no, no, not doing it.
22:28.412 --> 22:30.533
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, foods for that.
22:30.653 --> 22:33.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely, that is the bathroom thing.
22:33.814 --> 22:35.254
[SPEAKER_01]: I call them no phone zones.
22:35.574 --> 22:48.339
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the dinner table, the bathroom, the car, if you're driving, all of these things that were you recognizing, oh, 30 years ago, I wouldn't be walking around with this in this specific place.
22:48.679 --> 22:49.699
[SPEAKER_01]: So, do I really need it?
22:50.159 --> 22:55.541
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even I find myself at home, walking around, holding my phone doing something.
22:55.881 --> 22:57.842
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm leaning against like the counter.
22:57.922 --> 23:04.243
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm leaning against a wall or I'm like halfway sitting on the couch when I really don't need to be doing that.
23:04.603 --> 23:10.165
[SPEAKER_01]: And so oftentimes I'll go home and I'll put my phone in a specific place and I'll leave it there.
23:10.505 --> 23:15.726
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I need to get something, I get up, I go grab it, I'm like holding it in the same place.
23:16.266 --> 23:22.488
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I put it back down and I'm far less likely to be scrolling because then, you know, my fiance will be like,
23:22.980 --> 23:23.640
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing?
23:23.660 --> 23:30.485
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just standing back in the corner in our office and I'm just scrolling.
23:30.925 --> 23:33.307
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're kind of acting weird, what's going on?
23:33.827 --> 23:37.289
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it really is helpful to have those zones.
23:37.369 --> 23:39.151
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's true, like you were just saying,
23:39.811 --> 23:43.473
[SPEAKER_01]: you might have more rules than you realize that you do.
23:43.673 --> 23:48.295
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of the times it's just you recognize something and you say, I don't want to do this anymore.
23:48.655 --> 23:54.658
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing that I had to do for myself, of course, apart from Opel, having that already built in.
23:55.238 --> 23:57.839
[SPEAKER_01]: into my days and into my schedules.
23:58.199 --> 24:09.584
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have people hold me accountable and kind of going back to the point that you're making about parents and how it really is, you have to emulate what you want them to see.
24:10.045 --> 24:13.806
[SPEAKER_01]: My hat goes off to all the parents, you know, in this generation, I
24:15.707 --> 24:44.340
[SPEAKER_01]: I was born in 1997 and you know I had like my Nintendo DS that was like the big thing that I would yes and I'm like oh I can't I I'm like you know trying to play it at 10 30 and night when I'm supposed to be going to sleep and then like you know my mom will come in it's you'll peek to see that I'm you know asleep and you'll see this big glowing light and but like I think that nowadays there's so much more that you have to manage and on top of that
24:46.107 --> 24:51.012
[SPEAKER_01]: Having a phone or the internet, it's not just a kids issue.
24:51.092 --> 24:53.154
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is a human issue.
24:53.234 --> 25:06.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we talk about trying to solve these problems for children, but we have to really start and be honest with ourselves and recognize how we have to solve it for ourselves, first and foremost.
25:06.887 --> 25:08.969
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that parents are
25:09.509 --> 25:26.657
[SPEAKER_01]: you're not just managing your children's relationship with technology, you're having to model that and it looks a lot like learning how to regulate without using your phone or learning how to be vocal about, okay, you're right.
25:26.697 --> 25:28.418
[SPEAKER_01]: I was on my phone when I didn't need to be.
25:28.778 --> 25:29.658
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm putting it down.
25:29.778 --> 25:30.739
[SPEAKER_01]: You put yours down too.
25:30.779 --> 25:31.779
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go do something else.
25:32.479 --> 25:32.620
[SPEAKER_01]: And
25:33.800 --> 26:02.108
[SPEAKER_01]: it's complicated because again we all this is a willpower issue this is a or this is not a willpower issue this is a technological issue something that has been designed to capture our attention all day every day and I'm really curious also about your thoughts on the phone bands and things like yonder pouches all of that is coming up as what we assume to be a solution but it doesn't
26:02.908 --> 26:23.033
[SPEAKER_01]: Kids how to regulate their their feelings and their emotions without you know It takes away a problem that will just be given back to them later without a real solution and so yeah I mean I don't know if like in your in your kids schools if they're having these kinds of issues too But I'd love to hear
26:24.647 --> 26:27.089
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't know about that.
26:27.149 --> 26:30.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the yonder patches that way you get when you go to a comedy show or something?
26:31.172 --> 26:32.213
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, they do that.
26:32.253 --> 26:42.842
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they now have them in schools too where you've got these, the phones are being put in there and then, okay, and they're not effective.
26:43.222 --> 26:43.543
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
26:43.723 --> 26:44.043
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
26:45.324 --> 26:55.295
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm always frustrated when they take my phone into place, but I mean, I understand why all that's to say, yeah, I think it's just a muscle that we need to exercise.
26:55.555 --> 26:57.497
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have to learn how to discipline.
26:57.857 --> 27:02.983
[SPEAKER_00]: I think especially in this day and age, because we just have so much that's fighting for our attention and that we do have to
27:03.603 --> 27:12.525
[SPEAKER_00]: It is harder and it's sense to live in this day and age because even with fast food, like we had arrived on the street and there's so many options that I have to say no too.
27:12.605 --> 27:14.406
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like no, no, no.
27:14.686 --> 27:15.266
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds good.
27:15.286 --> 27:16.286
[SPEAKER_00]: It may be no, no.
27:16.787 --> 27:26.529
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then yeah, it's when you're telling yourself no or depriving yourself so to speak all day long, you, I guess you end up, I don't, I don't really know what I'm trying to say.
27:26.549 --> 27:29.190
[SPEAKER_01]: To keep wanting more in the end, right?
27:29.210 --> 27:29.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:30.150 --> 27:37.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just makes you feel more compulsive or impulsive, but yes, I mean, it is, I'm 38.
27:37.377 --> 27:39.139
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm better at it than I used to be.
27:39.660 --> 27:42.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Think the Lord that I did not have a phone in high school.
27:42.923 --> 27:45.966
[SPEAKER_00]: I had Zenga, I had my space, but
27:47.087 --> 27:55.769
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm really grateful that I'm not growing up where I'm having to make my mistakes via cell phone and not to have full control.
27:55.789 --> 27:57.350
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you said, oh, I know what you said.
27:57.370 --> 28:00.511
[SPEAKER_00]: You were talking about regulation, like that we need it to regulate.
28:00.691 --> 28:03.392
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to talk a little bit about board and before we wrapped up.
28:03.832 --> 28:07.513
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that I found myself really bored towards the end of summer.
28:08.353 --> 28:10.033
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's like, we've done all of the things.
28:10.414 --> 28:12.274
[SPEAKER_00]: I planned the summer for them.
28:12.474 --> 28:13.114
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just bored.
28:13.174 --> 28:14.194
[SPEAKER_00]: I need structure.
28:14.294 --> 28:24.057
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm not on my phone to pass if I myself, like I'm having a hard time getting in this book or maybe I don't want to lay here and some of these uncomfortable feelings that I'm having.
28:24.637 --> 28:32.279
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that in setting boundaries around our phone, we've become bored, which is actually, again, using that muscle.
28:32.359 --> 28:33.459
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what our kids need.
28:33.479 --> 28:36.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Our kids need to learn how to be bored and not use them as pacifiers.
28:36.980 --> 28:38.641
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I kind of did a whole circle there.
28:38.761 --> 28:45.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was perfect, I could jump because, and I love the concept of boredom.
28:45.744 --> 28:54.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the root of creativity and your imagination and strategic thinking.
28:54.589 --> 28:57.310
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are not bored enough in our lives.
28:57.851 --> 29:05.474
[SPEAKER_01]: And it even more uncomfortable because we have all of the stimulation that is happening all day
29:06.755 --> 29:16.643
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in order to be able to actually get more comfortable and actually find like that baseline again, we have to do it in small spurts.
29:16.763 --> 29:22.227
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have a timer that I'll set and you know, sometimes I'll just be scrolling and I'm like, I need to stop.
29:22.347 --> 29:23.288
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to stop right now.
29:23.448 --> 29:28.532
[SPEAKER_01]: So I put a timer on and it blocks like all of my apps and I get up and I go and just do something else.
29:28.592 --> 29:29.233
[SPEAKER_01]: I can journal.
29:29.733 --> 29:43.742
[SPEAKER_01]: I can like, I'll sit and just stare at a wall for a couple minutes and I like live across the street from a park and I'll just go and lay there and like look at the sky, look at the clouds and it feels so weird because these are things that like
29:44.599 --> 29:53.528
[SPEAKER_01]: We either now and our minds feel like we don't have time for because we have a million things to do, especially parents, you know, you're like, when have you had a moment alone?
29:53.548 --> 29:58.594
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if you, you can't even shower by yourself without somebody, maybe something.
29:58.694 --> 30:06.382
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the idea of going and spending five minutes doing nothing, you're like, I had a laundry list of things that I could be doing right now.
30:06.822 --> 30:07.322
[SPEAKER_01]: instead.
30:07.722 --> 30:23.728
[SPEAKER_01]: But what happens is instead we spend five minutes growing, ten minutes growing, 15 minutes growing, when really like what our what our nervous system or our brains need is five minutes of silence or five minutes of just not doing anything.
30:23.748 --> 30:23.808
[SPEAKER_01]: And
30:25.128 --> 30:42.040
[SPEAKER_01]: we take the quick fix of, okay, I'm just gonna get that little, that little dopamine hit from my phone real quick and then you feel better for a moment and then you need it again a moment later and when you actually start implementing boredom into your life,
30:42.780 --> 30:51.870
[SPEAKER_01]: you are able to find that baseline again, lower the amount of dopamine that you're needing to function on a daily basis.
30:52.530 --> 30:56.955
[SPEAKER_01]: And you start finding joy in simple things again.
30:57.556 --> 31:03.142
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't feel like it is this big task of living.
31:03.742 --> 31:04.203
[SPEAKER_01]: anymore.
31:04.343 --> 31:13.389
[SPEAKER_01]: When you can really recognize that like boredom is not a negative thing, it's not something that is a threat to you either.
31:14.010 --> 31:20.074
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beneficial and helpful and will help you be able to regulate your emotions and your feelings.
31:20.214 --> 31:27.359
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course in me and your kids too, leading by example, showing them that we don't always have to have a device in our hands.
31:27.499 --> 31:27.959
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't always
31:32.963 --> 31:34.843
[SPEAKER_01]: we can simply just be.
31:36.384 --> 31:37.924
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great word.
31:38.104 --> 31:46.625
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what author I was speaking to, but they said, they had the word count that they wanted to hit each day and they would sit in the chair.
31:46.725 --> 31:48.166
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I wish I could remember who said this.
31:48.226 --> 31:54.247
[SPEAKER_00]: They would sit in their chair until they hit it and not be allowed to touch their phone to do anything else.
31:54.267 --> 31:58.647
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to sit in the chair and remain bored because that's where creativity grows.
31:58.687 --> 32:00.628
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where it's like who knows where this
32:02.548 --> 32:15.172
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just thought that was probably really painful a little bit like sitting there, but again, what a great way to practice boredom patients and just allowing for it to come.
32:15.532 --> 32:19.773
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, absolutely in that pain in the end, it gets easier and easier.
32:19.793 --> 32:20.813
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like exercising.
32:21.113 --> 32:29.536
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to actually put that muscle under tension and there is pain momentarily, but then you get stronger and stronger and things get easier and easier.
32:29.956 --> 32:31.258
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's the same with boredom.
32:31.618 --> 32:33.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Your brain is going to panic.
32:33.660 --> 32:35.703
[SPEAKER_01]: For some it's going to be like, what am I doing?
32:36.023 --> 32:36.624
[SPEAKER_01]: I need help.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be moved.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be taken care of and feel better.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, oh, I actually don't need to be panicking right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is nice.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually feels good.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Olivia, where can listeners?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know we're talking about being online, but for the five times the Opal gives us to be online.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Where can I find when they yes?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You can find me on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My handles are Olivia.unplugged, except for Instagram.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's Olivia.unplugged.it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I make long-form videos, short-form videos, and all of my videos are really focused on
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[SPEAKER_01]: neuroscience and psychology and really understanding why we do what we do and making it understandable for people where it doesn't have to be this big complicated thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's really practical and I just simply meet people where they are, which is on social media.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And oftentimes I do tell you I'm like, okay, it's time for you to get offline now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for you to unplug.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's always an amazing conversation and my goal is always to leave people with something rather than feeling like they've been that something's been taken from them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just quickly as we wrap things up, I asked my guests two questions here at the very end of every episode.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life, outside of Opel, that you would recommend to the listeners?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, there's no such thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: OK, what is a beneficial resource?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I got to say this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is crazy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love PubMed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love PubMed, which is, you know, it's an entire database of medical journals and research and so you are able to go in and have access to all of these different studies and that is where I have done so much.
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[SPEAKER_01]: research of, you know, the things that I talk about on my channels.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll see, as you watch my videos, I'm always crediting and coding, you know, where I found this, what this research is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's so fun because it's not just about neuroscience or, you know, you think about, like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: medical journals or studies and you think of this, you know, really complex, complicated thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I read a study that happened in the UK about people who knit and how, you know, their lives are benefited by sitting and doing something with their hands.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was written in like playing English was not too complicated and I learned something and I then was able to tell somebody else about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be sure to check it out and I'll be on the show on its full listeners last question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What is something you can't stop talking about?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I can't stop talking about this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, it really truly is the center of so many conversations and I can't stop talking about how social media phones technology, it is a tool and
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[SPEAKER_01]: we can harness it as a tool, learn how to use it in a beneficial way.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like Diane, I think that you're a great example of that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Having a podcast being able to use it to amplify different conversations and teach people things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And there there's always a good side of things and being able to lean more into that and believe the best and work towards the best.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That is something
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you for saying that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I just really appreciate the work that you're doing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, kind of full circle to the question I asked you at the beginning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that you do do a really good balance there of encouraging people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this is where we are, we aren't outside holding those signs because you're only going to reach a handful of people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I just appreciate the balance that you're taking and the intentionality that you're taking here while being in this wrong.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for joining me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of the episode?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
37:08.408 --> 37:19.813
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
37:20.454 --> 37:29.718
[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.
