INFORMAZIONI SU QUESTO EPISODIO
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Episode Description:
Librarian Robin Thompson (Crazy Mrs. T) breaks down Melissa Stewart’s Five Kinds of Nonfiction: active, browsable, traditional, expository, and narrative. She explains how she reorganized her elementary nonfiction collection for better student findability, including chronological history and grouping military transportation with military books.
She also shares hands-on strategies that increased circulation: nonfiction book tastings, a March Madness-style bracket to engage readers, and outreach tips.
MOSTRA NOTE 🔗
TRASCRIZIONE 🔗
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We'll dive into our profession with interviews and meaningful content to inspire you.
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We're not experts, but we're pretty close.
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The ideas and opinions shared by any host, guest, or listener are their own
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and do not represent those of any respective school district.
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Welcome to Library Exchange.
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This episode is sponsored by Macken. For over 40 years, Macken has provided
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pre-K through 12th grade libraries and classrooms with access to over 4 million
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printed and digital, fiction, and nonfiction titles.
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The 26-time multi-award-winning digital content management system, MackinVIA,
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along with divisionsMackinLibrary, MackinClassroom, MackinMaker,
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MackinLearning, and the brand-new whole-school resource management system, MackinVision,
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helped to create a truly unique and robust educational resource company that
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schools and educators have relied on year after year.
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For more information, visit Mackin.com today.
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Hi, everyone. You may be feeling a little sluggish today since Daylight's Saving
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Time began this past weekend, but it's time to wake up and pay attention.
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Well, we may have lost an hour of sleep, but we are all about to gain a plan
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for the nonfiction collection.
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That's a pretty good one, Julie. Thanks. Today, we're joined by librarian Robin Thompson.
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Robin is a former high school language arts teacher and former high school librarian,
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tech integrator, who switched to the elementary level at McAllister Elementary School in 2020.
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So when you switch levels like that, is that springing forward or falling back?
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It is springing forward. It was time for new things. All right, I like it.
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She's also the chair for the Georgia Library Media Association Summer Institute,
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which is a professional learning conference held in June each year.
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On social media, you may know her as Crazy Mrs. T. Welcome to Library Exchange, Robin.
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Thank y'all. I'm super excited. I've been waiting to be on here with y'all and
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I can't wait to share all of our cool things. Yeah, we're looking forward to it.
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So, Robin, let's go ahead and get started. Will you share information about
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your school and district?
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Absolutely. So we are a suburban school system right outside of Savannah,
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Georgia, down on the coast.
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Richmond Hill, Bryan County School System. We are the fastest growing county in Georgia. Wow.
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Yeah, and the sixth fastest in the country. Wow. We are surrounded by an army
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base, a major army base, and we also have a Gulfstream. We have a Hyundai Megaplant.
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We have lots of businesses, and our school system seems to be really on top,
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and the parents want their kids in our school system. I am at a pre-K through five elementary.
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It is its 11th year being open. And so our media center is huge and beautiful and new, which I love.
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And but I've just been able to give my little twist to it and make it what we
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have. And we have right now our enrollment grows really fast.
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So we are at 1075 kids right now.
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And we have 51 classes pre-K through five.
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But then additional staff puts us maybe right around 78.
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Okay, great. That place is hopping. It is. It is hopping.
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Very much so. Yeah. So for this episode's topic, we're going to discuss information
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from the book, Five Kinds of Nonfiction by Melissa Stewart and Marlon Correa.
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Robin, we understand that you hit the jackpot at AASL 2023.
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You attended a session on highlighting elementary nonfiction and then attended
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Melissa's session later.
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You've really taken nonfiction to a new height in your library Good.
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So shout out to that presentation and to the authors of five kinds of nonfiction
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All right, so to set the stage, Robin, would you walk us through those five
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types with a quick description of each?
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Yes, absolutely. So that I'd never really thought about nonfiction having different
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types. I mean, I kind of recognized it myself.
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But going to this conference in one of the very first sessions,
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that's what they were talking about.
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And I thought I can go to this session and walk away feeling like I've got new things for the library.
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And so that was the one area in our elementary library that I felt needed,
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just some love and weeding, but just knowing how to make it more accessible to our students.
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And so learning about the five types from Melissa Stewart and Marlene Correa
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really helped. So the first one that they mentioned is called Active Nonfiction,
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and that teaches like how-to books.
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So the cookbooks, the origami books, you know, it's anything that where you can learn a new skill.
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So the kids can, I mean, in our cookbook section, it's so funny because elementary,
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you don't think about them doing that.
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But they love our cookbook section.
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Also, it would include even like our gaming books. So like Minecraft,
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the Pokemon, the Fortnite, Roblox, any of those books that teach them the skills
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on playing their video games are also considered active. So, active is teaching.
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Browsable is what we think, like Guinness Book of World Records.
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It is going to be the facts.
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Factastic nonfiction is kind of what we tell it. It's going to have the charts.
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It's going to have photos. You're going to jump around.
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Browsable means you can skip pages. You don't have to read it from cover to
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cover because I don't think many of the kids do read the Guinness Book of World
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Records. It's pretty chock full of information.
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And so, any of those where you can skip around, that's going to be your browsable.
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Traditional is all about. So that's where you're going to kind of an overview of a topic.
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I learned that there are like 50-something breeds of cats when I came to the
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elementary. I had no idea.
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So there's like all these breeds, you know, so those, all the dog books and
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all my cat books, you know, the Persians, the, all those. So those are your
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traditional. They've got pictures.
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They've got the basic facts about the topic. So right now we're doing Winter Olympics.
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And so they're going to talk about, you know, figure skating and,
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you know, whatever it may be. It's all about.
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Expository Explains. So these are some of, these are going to be the ones that
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make really good read-aloud.
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Expository is a literary style. It's going to be written in expository style.
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And it kind of dives down into a little deeper.
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So there's one called Tree Hole Homes, and it's about animals that live in holes in a tree.
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And that's their homes. We also do the whole series by Kate Mesner called Over and Under.
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So over and under the snow, over and under the coral reef, over and under the dirt.
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So you see the animals, you learn about how they habitat, but it's a much more
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interesting read aloud than like a traditional or a browsable nonfiction.
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And then the other one is narrative nonfiction.
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And my kids love this one. It tells a story.
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So it's just like narrative writing, but it looks like a picture book,
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but it's nonfiction. A lot of biographies, important events.
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So we have hidden figures about the ladies who helped at NASA.
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We have Trombone Shorty, which is also a really cool one because he played in
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the Super Bowl last year.
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So we were talking about him the next week during Black History Month,
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and he had just played at the Super Bowl. And the kids were like,
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so that book became major checked out.
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So those are the five types of nonfiction in a nutshell.
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Great. Thank you. That was a great overview. Yeah, go ahead. What did you say?
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Factastic for Browsable? Yes, for Browsable. Yes.
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So Tom Bober, who's also a librarian in Missouri, he was a part of that conference
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when I learned about the five types.
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And he made his kids do an anchor chart when he introduces it to them.
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And I have a picture of that anchor chart because it was out beside Browsable.
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He had the kids describe the different types of nonfiction.
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And one of the kids wrote factastic. Like, it's just chock full of facts.
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And I always said those are also the really good ones to take on road trips
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because you can just read things out loud or like those weird but true facts.
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Any of those that are like just, oh, my gosh, I can't believe that. But it's true.
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And so they're just fun to, those are kind of good to do. When you say read
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aloud, those are good for like road trips.
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It's almost like magazine style, right? Where you can just pick and choose what you want.
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And so that's a fun, fun one to have definitely when you're traveling.
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So thank you for that again. With this framework in mind, you began rethinking
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how nonfiction is organized.
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Can you describe that? Tell us a little bit more.
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Yes. So, you know, I have to remind myself there are no Dewey police.
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They're not going to come get us. And we still have the numbers on our books
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because it's already genre-fied, but it needs to be a little updated.
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Some of the numbers don't always make sense to our students,
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especially elementary. When I first started working there and the kids,
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we study history in 4th and 5th chronologically.
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But I can't remember exactly the order, but when I would go over there to look,
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I'm like, why Civil War after World War II?
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They were in a really weird order. And this doesn't make sense.
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And is anybody going to come get me for changing the order?
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No. because the kids just want, they are used to seeing it chronologically.
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They were even like, why is Civil War way over here when, you know,
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World War II is on the shelf before it?
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So that was one of our first big changes. It's like changing the order of the
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wars of our history section.
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So in those 900s, it is now chronological and that's okay.
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Then I realized because we're in a big military community, our kids' dads drive tanks.
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They drive different jets and airplanes, Chinooks, those type of things.
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And they love military transportation.
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Transportation is in the 600s. Where's my military? Way down here in the 300s.
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And so I took those transportation books and plopped them right in the middle of my military.
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Why? Because those kids know where all the military is.
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They can check out a book about the Marine Corps along with a book about F-15 fighter jets.
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And if one of those military transportation books is missing in the series or
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has been damaged, they will not stop asking me till it's been replaced because
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they want to read every single one. And I've learned a lot about it.
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You shifted the books to respect how they look for the books and changing the
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organization. It's a game changer.
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It is. I mean, it's why we genre-fy, to make it easier for our kids to find things.
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So, in the nonfiction, it's just a bunch of numbers. And even though we have
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tags and, like, pictures, like, here's where this is, it just makes sense to them.
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And that's what they are to make, like, make it easier for them.
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It's a different mindset, right?
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And I think those out there that are still doing the traditional,
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there's nothing wrong with doing the traditional organization with Dewey Decimal
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or even using a combination, right?
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But you're ultimately trying to get books in the hands of kids.
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And so if that makes sense for you, then you should do it. Yes.
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Great. And with as many kids as we have, I can't always, you know,
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now I can just, they know where to go and they can help their friends.
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I'm like, so-and-so, you know where they are. Go show new student where these are.
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So it's, yeah, I mean, nonfiction the first year, I could probably pull data,
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but it was never even looked at except for like the browsable,
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the Guinness Book of World Records, which they love.
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After that second, third year, when I started realizing the differences that
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needed to happen, And now we focus on it so much that, I mean,
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that's probably at least 30 to 40% of the books that are checked out. Wow, great.
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forward slash library exchange. you
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To take it a step further, Robin,
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I know you have book tastings to get the nonfiction in a student's hands.
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So what does that look like in your program?
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Yes, we do book tastings in the fall for our genres, for our fiction section.
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And so when I'm trying to get the kids to understand the five different types
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of nonfiction, I'm like, I might as well go ahead and do book tasting with it as well.
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As soon as we get back from Christmas break, I have tables on our big area that
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I set up with poster that kind of are a sign that kind of explains what each nonfiction is.
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And every day, the kids know they can check books off those tables.
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So when we got back from Christmas, I introduced the five kinds,
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even though I kind of talked about them all year.
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But they are staying there. And I will constantly put new books off the nonfiction
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section on our back wall onto those tables so they can see constantly see,
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okay, here's a narrative nonfiction. This is what she's talking about.
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And I try to also pull the books that don't always get a lot of love because,
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you know, they don't, you know, may not always see them.
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And so they love that we've been pulling those out there, which,
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of course, now between us talking about doing this podcast and now I'm like,
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do I, I mean, I don't want you. And I've talked to other people like Tom Bober from Missouri.
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I was like, do I make a whole, like, do I just make my nonfiction section?
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He said, no, you still want to keep, because they may want a traditional nonfiction
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right beside the expository or the narrative one.
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And you still want them by their category. So in my plants and nature section, that kind of thing.
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But it just gets me thinking about, you know, just new ways to get our kids
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to see these books because they, I'm like, it's okay if you want to read nonfiction.
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We're not, we're not all not, you know, our fiction junkies.
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And I even had a parent the other
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day who asked me, how do I get my son to read more fiction? I'm like,
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Why are you complaining? And I was like, because he just brings home this nonfiction stuff.
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And I'm like, it is not just stuff. It's like the most amazing stuff. It's information.
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Like his little brain is just going to absorb it all. So like,
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don't fight them trying to read fiction.
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I have the whole reason I have, I didn't realize I didn't have enough fishing
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and hunting and survival camping books until I have a boy who's now in middle school.
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But my first year there, he was in first grade.
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And I looked and saw we had nothing. So I quickly, my very first order,
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found a series about different types of saltwater and freshwater fishing and
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different types of hunting and then camping and survival books.
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And I could literally name it the Sawyer Walker section because that's the reason
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we have it. It's because of him.
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Right. So, Robin, I know that one of your biggest hits that you talked about
00:15:09.306 --> 00:15:12.066
before with us is using that March Madness theme.
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You bring the five types of nonfiction to life during that March Madness.
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For our listeners outside of the U.S., could you explain what March Madness
00:15:21.586 --> 00:15:26.726
actually is and why it's such a popular way to get kids excited about reading every spring?
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Yes, I can. So March is when our college basketball teams in the United States
00:15:31.843 --> 00:15:33.683
are finishing up their season.
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And it's the way to find the best college basketball team in the U.S.
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And so it's this big tournament. It always kicks off in March.
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There's 68 teams. The selection process is a big deal because you want to be one of those 68 teams.
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And it's a single elimination bracket down to one winner. the first weekend
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is just like game after game after game.
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And you just constantly are watching it. So it's a really big deal here.
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It's high energy. If you're a 16 seed versus a first seed and the 16 upsets
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that first seed, it's like, wow, your bracket's busted is what we call it.
00:16:05.703 --> 00:16:07.643
Like you fill out brackets ahead of time.
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Bracket busting. Yes. And so with us, instead of college teams, we use books.
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And I'd seen this with a couple other schools that did it. And we had done it
00:16:17.303 --> 00:16:21.523
earlier with our Georgia Children's Book Award nominees, but we actually have
00:16:21.523 --> 00:16:25.483
to vote on those before the end of February, I think, like that first week of March.
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And I was like, okay, well, by the time March ends, we're already,
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you know, we were supposed to have already voted. So, we chose to do nonfiction last year.
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I want to draw more attention to those. And I think the kids got
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They just seemed like it was their favorite. I felt like we had more voting.
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So I picked 16 and I did a mix of all five types.
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And it was some that we had read aloud during the school year.
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And some were just ones I knew that were kind of favorites already.
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I printed out pictures of the covers of the books. And I have a glass window
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crossed from us with some awards and stuff in it.
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So I set up the bracket with 16 books. So I send it off to the teachers in a Google form.
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And the bracket's posted. and each book that's listed either as myself reading
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it or I found a YouTube read aloud. So if they haven't read it, they can hear it.
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And the teachers know that morning to go ahead and play the two read alouds
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if they haven't. And then there's a Google form. The whole class has to vote.
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They choose which one that they want out of their classroom.
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Otherwise, I mean, well, it'd probably be bad to have like a thousand people voting.
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But anyway, every morning I make the announcement from the day before which one won.
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And they are all waiting at the end of announcement. And of course,
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I'm getting on there like riling them up. And my principal's like, they've got to study.
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And I know they do, but we're going to just do this. Just for a few weeks.
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Okay, just give me these few weeks.
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And so last year, Trombone Shorty won. And I think a lot of it had to do with
00:17:47.510 --> 00:17:52.890
the fact that we tied into that he was at the Super Bowl. We played the little bit where he played.
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I think it was America the Beautiful. But anyway, they just,
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I mean, they could spit facts about him.
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I need to know what happens when you get to the final book.
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When the final book. So then we just have this huge like, whoa,
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and we just, I don't know, we just celebrate.
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And I usually will reach out to the authors because when I post about it on
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social media, if the author and or illustrator are in the,
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March Madness bracket, I'll always tag the author and illustrator.
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So they know that we're doing this. Do they ever respond?
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Oh, gosh, yeah. So one year before we did the March Madness,
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Selena Yoon, Penguin and Pinecone is one of her books. She has a penguin series.
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I don't know what happened. But one year we read that book, Penguin and Pinecone.
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And even my older kids would hear me read it. And they were like,
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it's the sweetest story ever.
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I mean, it's so simple and sweet. And we, I don't know.
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And so that was one of the ones I put in that year when we were still just doing
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fiction and it won like unanimously.
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And so we, I kept her informed about it. She hand drew this big letter thanking
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us and like drew all the penguins and all the illustrations on it.
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And we had her as an author visit the next year because the kids were so obsessed
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with her. Oh, I love that.
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Yeah. They usually will respond. If you're an author, You would love to know
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that kids are just thrilled about your book and voting for you. I would love it.
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This is great timing since March Madness selections are on March 15th,
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and the tournament starts on March 17th.
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So librarians still have time to maybe decide on their book brackets,
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especially if you just do eight on each side to get students excited.
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Yeah, it's good timing. For sure.
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And I mean, you can do it in even high school. I mean, you can do it with different genres.
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I mean, there's no right or wrong. But 16 just seems the easier number to deal with.
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I don't think I've ever seen anybody go beyond that.
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You're welcome to try that. But 16 is what we usually kind of start with.
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And the kids just love it.
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And they feel like their voice has been heard when they get the vote and it's
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picked. And I love that it was a nonfiction focus, too. That's fun.
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We're going to do that again. It's nice. I like it.
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All right. Well, great. Well, Robin, thank you so much for sharing such great
00:20:02.757 --> 00:20:06.537
information today. In the episode notes, we're going to include links to Melissa
00:20:06.537 --> 00:20:11.737
Stewart's website and NCTE's position statement about the role of nonfiction literature.
00:20:12.077 --> 00:20:15.617
As we wrap up, please remind everyone how they can contact or follow you.
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:20.060
Yes, I am at Crazy Mrs. T on Instagram and TikTok.
00:20:20.740 --> 00:20:24.140
I really love Instagram now. After Twitter, we just kind of all left there. Sorry.
00:20:24.580 --> 00:20:27.280
Instagram is where I usually post a ton of my library ideas,
00:20:27.300 --> 00:20:30.260
as well as my Caroline shenanigans on TikTok.
00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:35.080
So I love to do Caroline in the morning with my dogs and parents and kids, of course, too.
00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:42.400
And then you can always reach me at rthompson at bryan.k12.ga.us.
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.320
If you've got questions, I will be happy to help you with anything you've got.
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:51.480
Well, Robin, this discussion has been a slam dunk. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks again.
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:55.680
I loved it. Thank y'all so much for having me. I love sharing ideas.
00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:59.720
We've exchanged ideas. It's time for the recap, Julie.
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And let me start by saying that many people may be familiar with Robin on social media as Crazy Mrs.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.060
T. She dresses in costumes for car line duty.
00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:16.220
You've seen them, right? She plays music. Yeah. She gives treats to dogs in the car.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.380
She's really building community by connecting with students and their parents.
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Everyone knows that she's a librarian.
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And I love every minute of this, but don't let her outgoing personality and
00:21:29.060 --> 00:21:34.100
humor overshadow her knowledge because sometimes people assume that if you're
00:21:34.100 --> 00:21:37.180
funny, there's no way you're smart too, right?
00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:44.100
Julie, I'm dropping a bone. Are you picking out what I'm putting down?
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.600
I think I'm catching on here.
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:53.200
Because someone once said, Julie, you're the smart one in G and you're funny. Okay, anyway.
00:21:55.100 --> 00:22:00.940
Anyway, I'm so glad this interview is highlighting her expertise on nonfiction. Me too.
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Attending that five types of nonfiction session really got Robin's wheels turning
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about her nonfiction sections.
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She knew that nonfiction section needed a focus on collection development.
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So what better way than to align this different way to categorize nonfiction?
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In order to take a closer look at her nonfiction, she also teaches her students
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what that means through book tasting activities and the March Madness Brackets,
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which are just more examples of providing engaging activities to promote a love of reading.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.480
Yeah, you know, and those activities, the March Madness Bracket and book tasting,
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allow her to showcase or highlight her collection. So I wish librarians would
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do more book tastings with their staff.
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That's just my idea. Not my idea. I'm sure many people have it.
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But anyway, as she stated, the Dewey Police don't exist, people.
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So don't be afraid to break traditional Dewey rules if it makes the library
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more accessible and helps put books into kids' hands, period.
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Or actually, exclamation point,
00:23:07.080 --> 00:23:11.800
Julie. Do what you need to do to help students select books they like.
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Period! Exclamation point. Yes, I agree.
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It really seems that questioning and analyzing the way nonfiction is categorized
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has been trending in these last few years.
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Similar to the findability model that we talked about last season,
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Robin mentions how reorganizing the nonfiction really exposed gaps in the collection also.
00:23:34.201 --> 00:23:38.661
Yeah, on top of that, Julia, the author of the book, Five Types of Nonfiction,
00:23:38.981 --> 00:23:44.801
Melissa Stewart, She has the anchor charts that Robin talked about and activities
00:23:44.801 --> 00:23:47.901
on her website at MelissaStewart.com.
00:23:48.321 --> 00:23:50.101
And, you know, I did a little research.
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Melissa also made a guest post about this topic on the Mac and Community website,
00:23:57.441 --> 00:24:00.441
MacandCommunity.com, if you want to check that out. Great.
00:24:00.721 --> 00:24:04.741
Also, it sounds like for Robin, when she made all these organizational changes,
00:24:05.061 --> 00:24:08.941
that circulation increased in the nonfiction section, which is always a nice
00:24:08.941 --> 00:24:13.561
data point to use to advocate for the methods librarians use to encourage a
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love of reading for the students.
00:24:15.561 --> 00:24:19.821
That's the data that really does tell a story, which is the goal of using data
00:24:19.821 --> 00:24:21.781
to advocate for your program. Yeah.
00:24:22.261 --> 00:24:27.661
Also, beyond that framework, she talked about how important it is to organize
00:24:27.661 --> 00:24:32.101
your collection to reflect your students, to reflect the community.
00:24:32.381 --> 00:24:38.761
And two examples, she reorganized her history section to be chronological because
00:24:38.761 --> 00:24:40.741
that's how students learn it.
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I mean, maybe I would be better at history too.
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That were the case, but the Dewey Decimal System doesn't have anything to do
00:24:47.864 --> 00:24:49.664
with my lack of history knowledge.
00:24:50.504 --> 00:24:55.164
But I also liked that because she serves a large military community,
00:24:55.524 --> 00:25:01.384
Robin moved military transportation books to the military section so that students
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could find their favorite tank or jet books along with the other military topics.
00:25:06.704 --> 00:25:08.244
It's kind of common sense.
00:25:08.504 --> 00:25:13.184
It is, but in a sense. It's a little bit genius to do that, to be able to meet
00:25:13.184 --> 00:25:14.264
the needs of your students. Yeah.
00:25:14.404 --> 00:25:19.864
I didn't mean that to sound condescending, Robin, if you're listening to it. That was genius.
00:25:22.344 --> 00:25:25.804
Robin's focus was on the five types of nonfiction book.
00:25:25.984 --> 00:25:30.224
But I want to remind our listeners that in season one, we had two episodes that
00:25:30.224 --> 00:25:33.804
talk about reorganizing nonfiction using the findability model.
00:25:34.004 --> 00:25:37.904
If you would like a copy of the standard nonfiction categories that were used
00:25:37.904 --> 00:25:39.264
in the district that moved to the
00:25:39.264 --> 00:25:44.624
findability model, just email us at libraryexchangepodcast at gmail.com.
00:25:44.744 --> 00:25:47.624
Yeah, that's good. I'm glad you pointed that out.
00:25:47.884 --> 00:25:52.564
So everyone, you can follow Robin at Crazy Mrs.
00:25:52.964 --> 00:25:59.164
T on both Instagram and TikTok, and she invites you to email her at rthompson,
00:25:59.164 --> 00:26:01.344
that has the letter P in it, Thompson,
00:26:01.824 --> 00:26:08.804
at bryan.k12.ga.us with questions or collaboration ideas.
00:26:09.204 --> 00:26:13.004
We hope your week is absolutely fact-tastic.
00:26:13.624 --> 00:26:15.864
See what I did there, Julie? It was good.
00:26:16.524 --> 00:26:21.384
We'll be back to talk about why branding your library is both necessary and
00:26:21.384 --> 00:26:23.784
important on March 23rd.
00:26:24.164 --> 00:26:30.464
Make sure to visit our website at www.libraryexchangepodcast.com.
00:26:30.544 --> 00:26:32.824
You'll find episode notes and links.
00:26:32.924 --> 00:26:36.644
You can even submit your questions or inspiring stories that may be.
00:26:38.562 --> 00:26:42.442
If you're looking for some swag for your library or book-loving friends,
00:26:42.802 --> 00:26:45.822
visit libraryexchange.etsy.com.
00:26:46.122 --> 00:26:49.842
That's a lot of URLs, so I'm glad you had to say all of that, Julie.
00:26:51.542 --> 00:26:56.402
Thanks for joining us. We can't wait to have you back for our next episode of Booking.