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Welcome to Exit to Enter, Stay and Gathers podcast where we sit down with hospitality and design leaders to explore the journeys behind the titles, unpacking the pivotal career moves, life lessons, and the quiet art of letting go.
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Because every new chapter begins with an ending.
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I'm your host, Stacey Schumacher Rowan.
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Today's guest is Alia Khan, the recently named Vice President of Architecture, Design and Construction for IHG's Luxury Lifestyle and Managed Hotels, whose path from architecture school in Pakistan to Pratt Institute and into global hospitality is a study in adaptability, curiosity, and courageous choices.
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Alia's story traces childhood moves that taught her how to form new relationships fast, a detour out of industrial design and into a serendipitous role at Starwood, and bold career pivots.
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From New York to Bethesda, from Marriott to a new chapter at Noya House, back to Marriott, and now IHG.
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Along the way, she learned to make smart yes decisions, to lean into immersion and the people around her, and to treat closed doors as invitations to something better.
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In this episode, Alia shares how mentors pushed her to grow, how she builds culture by showing up fully, and how she turns setbacks into lessons to pass on.
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Welcome to Exit to Enter.
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So, hi, welcome to the first episode of Exit to Enter, my new podcast, because everyone should know by now that I was let go of my old uh position.
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And so I want this podcast to be all about the idea that everyone that I've talked to since then has had to let go of something to open another door or find a new opportunity.
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And you never actually sometimes you don't know you have to do it to get to where you are today.
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So that's the basis.
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And my first interviewee is my dear friend Alia Khan.
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So Alia, thanks for being my test subject today.
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I love this.
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I'm so happy to be your guinea pig.
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Um you are, and you actually helped me come up with a name too.
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So it's very fitting that you're number one.
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Well, it's a good one, you know, and it's one of those things also.
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I wonder if you have to be of a certain age or a life experience to be able to even have this conversation because you know, there's just time has so many impacts to everyone's what you let go to what you chose to receive.
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And I mean, it's a pretty good, it's a pretty great thing to be able to stand back and look at, even if at the moment when things happen, you're like, oh my God, this is terrible.
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What is this?
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But you know, time, age, wisdom, we got them all.
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Let's go.
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Great hair.
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So let's start with your childhood.
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You grew you first traveled around a bunch with your dad's job, and then you settled down in Pakistan at age 10.
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How do you think that has influenced you today?
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And was there anything in that essence of letting go, you know, as a child that helped you or made you who you are today?
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It's a good question.
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You know, when I was growing up, and when I was, let's call it fifth grade-ish, I remember being, you know, I just got moved to Karachi, having lived in all these places and going to school around all of these children who'd had the same best friends since kindergarten and the same everything, right?
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They played the same sports, they did the same activities, they had the same friends.
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They even spoke a second language that I still didn't fully know how to speak.
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And, you know, so you arrive as this kid and you're trying to fit in, and you think all I want is to just be a part of that, right?
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And it consumes you for a certain certain moment of time till you stop letting it consume you anymore.
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But now when I look back, I'm like, I kind of feel like that ability to sort of come in and not be a part of a group or a pack and then find my way, and find my way through making these relationships has actually been one of the biggest gifts, in part because, you know, A, I had come there having changed schools so many times and cities so many times.
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It makes you realize, like, I'm also not being very succinct about this, but there's something about like emotional connection and tie, and nothing can change that for you, right?
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How you feel about places, how you feel about things, relationships, and all of those things will always be with you.
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But physical daily, everyday change continues to happen to all of us, right?
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Commutes change, offices change, sometimes job change, tactical things change often.
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And I think if you can remember, like, what are those memories, that emotional um language that you've learned for yourself, that you've accumulated along the way, you actually get comfortable with that ability to change, knowing that the the other stuff is going to change no matter what.
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And you can't control that.
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I don't know if that made sense.
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I made a lot of dance to whole circle in my head.
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But it is about like, you know, for the child for and I and I I think maybe where I'd say it does make sense is oftentimes when I talk to now the people who'd never had those different friends or those different schools, not a lot of them have maybe changed big aspects of their life.
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And that's totally great if that's something that makes them happy and works for them.
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But when I think about myself and the things that I have wanted to do and been lucky enough to do, I think that if I was afraid of change and movement and that constant sort of what is happening now, I don't think I could have been at peace with what I do or been happy because it isn't for everyone.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Well, and speaking of that change, I mean, you went to architecture school in in Pakistan.
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At first in Pakistan and then I came to Pratt.
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And then you came to Pratt.
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I mean, that was a huge change.
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I mean, what made you decide to take the leap to?
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I mean, I know you lived in Houston and Singapore and other places.
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So what made you, though, choose to leave Pakistan after so many years?
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I think it was a couple of things.
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I think it was one, the opportunity to have a different type of an education, which was going to be such a gift.
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And, you know, certainly there was a time in Pakistan where there were more men than women.
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Um, it was just a very different type of industry.
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It does fast forward make me so pleased now when I go back and I teach sometimes at the school that I went to, or I meet like these groups of young emerging architects.
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It is like the balance between men and women, and they are from all over the country, and they speak many different languages, and they have so many different life experiences that enrich the profession.
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That didn't exist when I was there.
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It was a small group, it was a very specific type of group, and there were not a lot of women.
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So now you have this opportunity to come to a place and continue what you think you want to do around different people with more space, with more uh ability to expand your thinking.
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So that was, you know, certainly the gift to come and take that.
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It is funny though, because you know, then you get here and you start to understand that there's so much more than what I thought was the study of architecture.
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And now there's layers to the onion, and you start getting into it.
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And then I was in my fourth, I was like, yeah, I was, I would say eight months away from graduating.
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And I was like, I don't think I want to be an architect.
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And my dad was like, absolutely not.
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You will finish this degree.
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What you choose to do after this is you.
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Right.
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But please do not be in such a hurry to change yet again.
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I love that you were learning these new things and you think you would like to do all these other things, can you please graduate first?
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Right.
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You know, and it is that sort of thing of like the more you learn, the more you see, but you have to be open to it, right?
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If you're not open to it, I think your experience of it could be different.
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Yeah.
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No, and I think that's an an interesting point.
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Like everyone always asks me, like, what's one piece of advice you'd give, you know, your younger self?
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And I'd always say lead with yes, you know, and try try it before saying no.
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I think it changes as you get older, but like I think then, you know, saying yes is super important.
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I had a boss who'd say there's something about like there's stupid yes and smart yes.
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And, you know, a smart yes is one that I think where you ask yourself questions.
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You may not know the answers, but why are you doing this?
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What's driving it, you know, versus I want to be rich tomorrow, you know, and that's a stupid yes.
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And sort of like that ability to really question yourself and your motivations and your desires.
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I think if you are true to yourself and your circumstances, I think that qualifies as a smart yes.
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Yeah.
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No, I love that.
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I always say like there is the power of yes, and then there's also the power of no and like knowing when to say no.
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But I kind of like the smart yes and the stupid yes better.
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Um, so you fell into hospitality kind of backwards almost.
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You know, it was uh is by luck, right?
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Yeah, there's a lot of there were a few doors that closed.
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Oh, so you know, in keeping.
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Yeah.
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Um, so you know, when I did my undergrad, I um graduated and I moved back to Pakistan.
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And I moved back to Pakistan because I wanted to get married.
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And my, you know, fiance was living there, and that was where life was going to be.
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So, you know, did this degree, packed up, left my beloved New York, and off I went.
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And I had this vision of what my life was going to be, you know, and what 24-year-old doesn't have a vision of what their life is going to be.
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Um, but you know, it was a lot of other things.
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It was different things.
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It was what my how my personal relationship was driving my geographic choice from a career perspective, what that meant.
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Like what were the types of roles I was going to focus on?
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I was teaching, I was traveling, I was doing other things.
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And, you know, the marriage did not work out.
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And yeah, my mother said something to me that I, it's funny, I thought of this often of late in a few different instances of just at some point in the spirit of the smart yes and stupid yes, you can only do what you can do, right?
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And you try to, you give your best to a situation.
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If there's a problem, hopefully you're giving your best to solving the problem.
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But at some point, you can't force it, right?
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And at some point, you kind of just have to say, I did the best I could.
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I am going to step out of this.
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If it is meant to be, it is going to be.
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And let me tell you, fast forward for a type a Virgo control freak.
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I still do live by that.
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And I feel that in the doors that have closed, like, you know, when the marriage did come to an end, like at no point will I ever look back and say, I could have done one more thing.
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No, I did the best I could with what I knew and how I knew it, and it didn't work out, and a door closed, but the door that opened one was one that I got to come back to New York.
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And I got to fall into this world.
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And, you know, if that had stayed, this would not have happened.
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Now that's time and hindsight that's teaching me that, you know, some big doors closed.
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Like I thought I was going to do one thing, and now here I am back.
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And, you know, that was one.
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The second was that, you know, when I was in graduate school, I was just doing industrial design.
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I didn't really have an inclination of where it was going to go.
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I had this incredibly interesting job, but it was at a place that wasn't for me.
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Okay.
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And it was mostly because the discipline of what they were doing was not of interest to me.
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And I think there are people it exhibit design, I think exhibit design is very hard.
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I think people do it beautifully.
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I mean, look at I mean, every time I go to the the Met show at the, you know, uh every summer, I have I'm reminded of just how deceptively simple and yet how difficult it is.
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It wasn't for me.
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And I had this moment of like, I don't think I can do this job.
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I do need a job.
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I want to stay in the country.
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How does this all work?
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And I remember looking at the contents of my bank account and being like, can I wing this?
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And I sort of did the math and I was like, okay, I need to find a job quickly, but I can quit this job.
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And I quit.
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And everyone's like, who quits before they get another job in hand?
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And my thought was, I wasn't happy doing that.
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I was focused on my thesis.
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I knew that I had to finish strong with my thesis in order for me to get a job I loved.
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And it was like I took a gamble.
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And, you know, subsequently that door closed.
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And I was out of class one night and I was talking to my friend, and her boyfriend was like, hey, you know, we need someone to come help at this hotel company.
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Why don't you come work with us for a couple of months?
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And um, I'll help you figure out a job, like, you know, introduce you to people and this sort of thing.
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And you need work, I need help.
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Let's do this.
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And next morning I remember the phone rings, and it was the HR department at Starboard Hotels and Resorts, and they were like, Um, we believe you're joining us in White Plains.
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And I was like, Wait, what?
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You're like, White Plains?
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I live in the Metro North, here we come, you know, and it's just like it's gambles, but things, and you know, you you don't, I didn't really know.
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And maybe when you're younger, you're more fearless, so that the smart yes and the stupid yes, or but all I heard was, okay, this is someone I know.
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It's a job.
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Um, they seem to want me for this duration.
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I have a few months.
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I've gotten a reprieve to figure my life out.
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And I mean, little did I know that it would be this thing that you fall into and then you never want to leave.
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I have maybe this is too personal of a question, but with the door closing with your, you know, with the divorce, were you then able to come back to New York with like a full heart of it?
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Because were you do you think when you were in New York and you had this other life still looming, you weren't fully integrated?
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I always wonder about how present some, you know, you need to be to really be part of things.
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I think it's a great question.
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And I think you don't know it till after.
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Right.
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You know, and sometimes I do believe that when I came back around the second time, my perspective was very different because the second time around, it was like, I'm here left to me, I'm not going back anytime soon.
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And now I need to figure this out.
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And I think that that does alter your perspective and the way you approach things, the way you make decisions.
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Absolutely.
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It's a great question.
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Yeah.
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The safety, what is the thing, right?
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There's something about a safety blanket.
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Yeah, like there's though you have it, your uh ability to push yourself or your desire to push yourself is perhaps a little bit different than when you're like, I have nothing to lose.
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Right.
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Like, and and this is all on me now, right?
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Like there's no one else that can help me get to the end goal, which I think is very scary but very empowering and almost brings out another side or brain function, you know, like something it like motivates you in a different way than you know, the other one does.
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So there's something about like we were talking about this at Thanksgiving, imagine of all things.
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But like, you know, when you and survival is an extreme word, but I think when when you really have to get things done, and you you know, things have had to sort of uh fall down, and things have had to kind of show you where the gaps are, that you can really get into it and start to fix it for yourself in a way that maybe, you know, wasn't even visible before.
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Yeah, a hundred percent.
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No, I think that's a great way to put it.
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Um, and so this one temp job turned into a much longer stint at Star Wid, and then again, you know, then we can get that then yeah, now to Marriott.
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Has there been, you know, going back to this whole letting go?
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Um, has there been throughout your career at Starwood slash Marriott, um you've gone through a lot of different roles.
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Has there been a specific role you let go or that m that made space for your current position?
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Or is there something you kind of had to let go of to advance in your career in the way that you have?
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New York.
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I had to leave New York, right?
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Yep.
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When Marriott offered me this role, originally they had said, you know, we'd like you to come to Bethesda, but then at some point in the conversation, they even said, you know, but you could do it from New York as well.
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And I had this moment for myself, like, okay, if you're going to do this, do it.
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Don't go back and forth on the Amtrak, move.
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Get up and do it and go and immerse yourself in it so that you can stand in line for coffee and do all the things that you're just never going to have time to do before.
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And it was an adjustment.
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I mean, leaving New York was quite hard.
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It was not, you know, the older you get, the more fixed you get in your ways.
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But conversely, now, you know, and it'll be nine years soon since I've moved here.
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Um, there's also been these really fantastic moments of like being able to ride the elevator with Arnie Sorensen, you know, or just sort of run into people in like the loveliest, most authentic, real ways, where you're literally just saying good morning, but there's sort of this relationship that is created, or there's this awareness of who does what, when, where, and how that you just can't do when you're remote or you're running back and forth, you know, to catch a plane, to get on a plane.
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And so it's again, time the time piece is coming back into all of this of I had to leave that to do this, um, because it was the only way I was going to learn this company and its sort of deep roots of culture and what makes it tick and who the people are, and you have to be in it.
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Yeah, and you have to give it 110%, right?
00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:00.000
Like if you are doing it remotely, you do like 70-75% to your point.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.079
Like it's nice to be fully immersed.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:14.480
And I was watching something the other day that, you know, the you know, I I do think working remote and having that capability is amazing for many different reasons, but today, case in play.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.680
Exactly.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:23.519
Um, but at the same time, they're saying, you know, one in three friendships start at the office, one in five romances start, you know, start in the office.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:38.400
That people are, you know, you're missing like mentors are found there, you know, things are formed in an office space to your point, like just that morning, hello, the you know, the quick meeting, you know, because you need something done, you know, like you have a quick question.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.720
Like, I think that you miss that.
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:53.759
And so I think, you know, you moving down there, especially before COVID when there wasn't a choice, you know, and now after COVID and seeing the two, you know, now that you guys are back in the office, and you got to create that, help create that beautiful office.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:21:02.240
It's it's definitely got this sort of the value of the time spent and the choices made.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:08.480
I think, you know, I now feel that I have my place in the conversation.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:13.200
And, you know, that only comes from what, you know, anything, Stacey.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.200
The more you put in, the more you get back, and you know, the back and forth.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.240
It's funny though, when you were speaking just now, relationships form.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:25.440
I was thinking about the early days of Starwood and uh Metro North and White Plains.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:30.960
Like my first friends in the industry were the friends that I met riding that train to White Plains.
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:31.279
Yeah.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.839
And they are still my friends, and I'm still connected to them.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:46.640
I mean, you know, and it was the people I worked with at Starwood, but then there was that first line of vendor partners like Katie Daly, because sometimes she'd ride the Metro North with us because she had to come call in Starwood, you know.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:54.559
And it's again this this blurring of they are people you work with, but they're so much more than people you work with.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.359
Like, you know, they become like an extended part of your family.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.759
Many people I work with are like, I see more of
00:22:00.160 --> 00:23:38.799
my coworkers and do my you know my family there's something about that that pulls you together yeah you're yes it's your chosen family in a way um has there been anything I guess well let's talk about you did leave Starwood Marriott World for a bit to um go to Noya House you know that was a change that was letting something go to try something else why was that important and how did how do you think that helped your you know your career after um you know that was an interesting one I I now laugh at myself a little bit like I thought I was burnt out from hotels I don't know if I thought I was burnt out or if I was tired or I felt that I needed a new place to like focus my brain and you know the way it all sort of happened I was introduced to the founders and you know they were absolutely lovely um and welcomed me from minute one I think what that it was a couple of things going there I learned new things that I don't think you can ever learn in school you know it's this ability to be sitting in a design meeting one day at Rockle Group and then the next day you're dealing with the fire marshal because you know the sprinkler head is something and I'm like wait what sprinkler head you know wait where is it wait and no no and then I'm like wait who's the consultant who's the engineering person it's like no no we're all of it you know and so it's the becoming resourceful and understanding when to call the experts and how to call the experts and all of that.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:24:06.079
But I think why I like what I take from that time was it I went from corporate America to a startup and it was the reminder of now you're gonna roll up your sleeves and you're gonna do this yourself and you're gonna figure it out and the beauty of Neue House then was it was built on this premise of a community of people coming together, right?
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:27.680
Whether it is to work with together to solve problems with together to socialize with together but this idea of community and people and I think what even working there became very clear was if you didn't know how to figure it out on your own, there was probably someone who could help you.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:35.279
And you could only figure it out if you took the time to get to know the people to find out what you know everyone did.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:57.759
And the lovely thing is fast forward I mean I've been gone now almost 10 years I'm in touch with almost everyone that I worked with and you know we still send recommendations back and forth to people like hey you need a person call so and so you need this try this you know and so that premise of community right still exists still exists.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:19.839
So I was able to one door closes one door opens I was able to take things from it that have stayed with me and then even as the Neue House chapter closed for me people you can't take the people away right they stay and that's something that has stayed with me as I continued into the next thing.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:37.440
Yeah no 100% has there been any mentors along the way that have helped you realize to move on from something or do something different or just has you know given you a piece of advice that's kind of stuck with you?
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:47.039
I think you know the best mentors that I've had um are all grounded very much in the in the in the fine art of tough love.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:26:01.119
And so what I love about that is that they don't judge me and I mean they've seen all kinds of do I do this do I do that and you know I think it's like the people who see you first.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.920
And in the seeing you they sometimes remind you about things that you've forgotten to see in yourself.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:15.200
They will also help you reshape some of what you're trying to do where I wouldn't do it this way.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:55.599
Would you consider it this or I mean I have an old boss who regularly tells me even now he's like feel free to cool your jets a little bit like you know like you get so spun up on an idea and when you hear it from people that you trust and respect immensely who you know have seen your growth I think it is again the value of opportunities change and move on but the those people they're still there they're all you know a text message away and um if you want to have real talk with them and really get into it they'll give you real talk.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:23.279
Yeah which I think is the best type right like we don't need that's why we need them yeah so that and it's why they're not parents they're not siblings they're not your coworkers but they are people who understand aspects of you and have seen you under many different situations of duress maybe and say they know the best of you right they also know when you need help and why you need help.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:44.319
Yep yep exactly has there been so you oversee a bunch of different brands at Marriott um is there talk about process a little bit and how you've had to you know you you were at some of the brands when you started and now you're back you know reevaluating them and you know re-looking at them in a different light.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:29:48.559
So how have you had to kind of almost let go of stuff you did to get the brands to where they are and also how are you looking at what you know the industry needs to let go to you know continue to really evolve these you know these multiple brands the brand thing is almost funnier because like there's so many things right that you look at and you're like oh I did that 20 years ago that's terrible why would I have done that you know and again time right you look at things and you think in that moment you did the right best possible thing with the technology available the the the fabrication or whatever it may be and now you look at certain things you're like oh it's so much easier to do that definitely we should have never done that and but I will say that I I don't have I'm not and maybe this is an opportunity for me I'm not defensive about things I've worked on I get very defensive about things other people have worked on that I might have been watching and I see the beginning to end of it and then I'm like you can't do that you can't remove that that was the core principle of this thing you know and I don't know I find it maybe sometimes it's easier to defend friends it's easier to defend things that you are not in because you're like but I saw it end to end like don't touch that don't change that like no that's no no if you're not following it it's someone's not explaining it to you properly you know and I find that like for all the brands particularly some of the Starwood brands as I'm now seeing them grow up and morph into other things and grow um there are times where I'm like oh I didn't work on that and I'm like oh I guess they don't understand that thing that happened before and maybe someone hasn't told them or maybe someone hasn't explained it properly or then maybe sometimes it was just a good idea in the moment and you know business evolves and customer needs evolve and that's what evolution is you know I think you bring up an interesting point.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:56.000
It's like I think sometimes when we're so ingrained in what we do it becomes very personal.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:06.960
And so almost letting go of that personal, you know, like it is personal but somehow allowing yourself to see it from a different light right not like this was the best you know this was my decision.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:16.319
So like it should have been correct but like oh that was my decision but you know like it you know it needs to change now which is a hard lesson I think to learn.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.599
It's a hard lesson.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:29.039
I also think you know as you're speaking and thinking to myself like what you and I do has a has a lot of similarity in that we're storytellers differently.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:40.559
You absorb the world and you sort of construct you know these tales if you will that tie to one another or help people in telling their story.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:31:07.039
And it's so much easier to do it when you're not talking about yourself but you're you know you're talking about someone else and you can really help them celebrate their success and you know if there are things that didn't go well you can even help them manage that messaging right and it's so much easier and you can do it with such whole heart and transparency when it's someone else versus when you're looking at your own work I'm kind of like yeah I did it it was fine.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:07.599
I liked it.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.200
I loved this part I didn't like this part.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:48.480
I can't afford this this is stupid this was just this was this was less a game we were going to see how long it would last before it would get you know cut out and that's a different approach and maybe it's because you know when it's your own when it's your own narrative you're a little bit more like life I'm gonna take chances I'm gonna try and make smart yeses I'm gonna try and but you're trying to shape it rather than when it's someone else's story, someone else's brand, someone else's project I feel like there's this respect factor that comes into play where I'm like oh don't mistell that story.
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:54.880
That's not how it was you know yeah no that's my own stuff I'm like I can I can defend it.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.559
I can explain why it was a good idea or a bad idea or what I learned.
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:35.599
Yeah no 100% that makes a lot of sense but I do love how you protect other people too I think that's you know something that you've been amazing at in your career is you know really elevating different designers and vendors and collaborators across the board I think it's because look there's so many I mean there's we work with so many amazing people right and if there's one thing that I think we all know it's that inspiration and ideas and talent comes from so many different parts and pieces.
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:48.880
And you know even as I was talking to like recently there's some um young ladies who have been awarded um the NEWH scholarships and talking to them and about their stories and where they've come from and what they want to do.
00:32:49.039 --> 00:33:01.200
And I was thinking like oh your lives are ahead of you and you guys are going to have so much fun and you're gonna experiment and you're gonna learn things about yourself and your work and what you're good at.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:07.759
And I feel that it applies to all of us and whether it's young designers or products, right?
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:16.400
Some of it you figure out together like oh this seemed like a good idea when we were building this and now here we are 20 years later and you're like oh maybe it wasn't such a good idea.
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:32.799
But that's the ability to work with people you respect and who you know what they're good at and they know what you're good at and then you can truly partner and that means that even understanding like you don't know what you don't know.
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.039
I you know like we're not all experts at everything.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:43.680
No we're not and as soon as you learn that then you bring other amazing people to the table and you learn so much.
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:50.720
And some of them you learn the hard way right because you've done certain things and then like something blows up and then you're like oh that was not good.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.640
But right door closing right it is a learning.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:28.719
Yep maybe messy but a learning nonetheless you know not as clean as you'd like it to be I guess layering on what you just said is kind of the last question you know as you said they have their careers ahead of them what looking back at the you know the 10 year old that went to Pakistan you know and had to learn a new language and you know find new friends what what do you think you wish you knew then or what would you tell yourself then that you know now um you know maybe around letting things go or just around a piece of advice?
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:37.440
I think it's I I still think what I'd tell the 10 year old is what I'd say today is that you have to try your best.
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.920
Like actually don't just say you didn't actually from your soul try your best.
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:50.880
You know I watch young kids playing sports and you see how they try like winning is a real thing.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:35:00.800
You see it three times a weekend and then some but it's like there's how do you when you are younger and you are less jaded just try.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:06.079
Do it do it do it but do it properly don't fake yourself do it.
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:42.079
And then over time if you continue that then you learn that the good will be very good the bad will be tragic and you just kind of have to learn how to like learn from it and not make the same mistake twice and share what you've learned with the people who want to learn so that they don't make the mistake protect them teach them just the way people are teaching you it's like it's this whole circle of things but in order to play in that you first have to try everything and really try it.
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.440
Don't just fake try it.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:43.920
Right.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:51.840
And like we said like you said really try it like 100 and something percent I think I yeah joke all the time that my son Jack does everything at 70%.
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:53.599
I'm like can we get to like 85?
00:35:53.840 --> 00:36:04.559
Yeah yeah yeah yeah just get there so and then the other two are probably operating at a collective of 300 yeah so so that's what's happening here every weekend.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:06.320
So I 100% agree.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:11.199
Well thank you so much for being my my guinea pig and first conversation.
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:13.760
I'm happy to thank you for having me.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.119
Well so we'll see I love I I do love it.
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.760
I love it because I think you ask a very good and real question.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.519
You know and sometimes you have to be asked the question to think about it.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.079
But then when you start to think about it you're like oh my God everybody's got the stories.
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.480
It's just what do you remember?
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:33.679
What did you learn from?
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:34.880
What did you grow from?
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:52.960
Yeah and I think that's what has been my biggest takeaway over the last few months is like everyone I've talked to has had a similar story of sorts or had to let some you know so I think that's where I'm really excited about this podcast because it really means a lot in many different ways.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:53.519
Yeah.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:54.239
For sure.
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:57.920
Thank you thank you
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:21.920
Welcome to Exit to Enter, Stay and Gathers podcast where we sit down with hospitality and design leaders to explore the journeys behind the titles, unpacking the pivotal career moves, life lessons, and the quiet art of letting go.
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Because every new chapter begins with an ending.
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I'm your host, Stacey Schumacher Rowan.
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Today's guest is Alia Khan, the recently named Vice President of Architecture, Design and Construction for IHG's Luxury Lifestyle and Managed Hotels, whose path from architecture school in Pakistan to Pratt Institute and into global hospitality is a study in adaptability, curiosity, and courageous choices.
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Alia's story traces childhood moves that taught her how to form new relationships fast, a detour out of industrial design and into a serendipitous role at Starwood, and bold career pivots.
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From New York to Bethesda, from Marriott to a new chapter at Noya House, back to Marriott, and now IHG.
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Along the way, she learned to make smart yes decisions, to lean into immersion and the people around her, and to treat closed doors as invitations to something better.
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In this episode, Alia shares how mentors pushed her to grow, how she builds culture by showing up fully, and how she turns setbacks into lessons to pass on.
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Welcome to Exit to Enter.
00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:37.120
So, hi, welcome to the first episode of Exit to Enter, my new podcast, because everyone should know by now that I was let go of my old uh position.
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And so I want this podcast to be all about the idea that everyone that I've talked to since then has had to let go of something to open another door or find a new opportunity.
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And you never actually sometimes you don't know you have to do it to get to where you are today.
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So that's the basis.
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And my first interviewee is my dear friend Alia Khan.
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So Alia, thanks for being my test subject today.
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I love this.
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I'm so happy to be your guinea pig.
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Um you are, and you actually helped me come up with a name too.
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So it's very fitting that you're number one.
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Well, it's a good one, you know, and it's one of those things also.
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I wonder if you have to be of a certain age or a life experience to be able to even have this conversation because you know, there's just time has so many impacts to everyone's what you let go to what you chose to receive.
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And I mean, it's a pretty good, it's a pretty great thing to be able to stand back and look at, even if at the moment when things happen, you're like, oh my God, this is terrible.
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What is this?
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But you know, time, age, wisdom, we got them all.
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Let's go.
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Great hair.
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So let's start with your childhood.
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You grew you first traveled around a bunch with your dad's job, and then you settled down in Pakistan at age 10.
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How do you think that has influenced you today?
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And was there anything in that essence of letting go, you know, as a child that helped you or made you who you are today?
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It's a good question.
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You know, when I was growing up, and when I was, let's call it fifth grade-ish, I remember being, you know, I just got moved to Karachi, having lived in all these places and going to school around all of these children who'd had the same best friends since kindergarten and the same everything, right?
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They played the same sports, they did the same activities, they had the same friends.
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They even spoke a second language that I still didn't fully know how to speak.
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And, you know, so you arrive as this kid and you're trying to fit in, and you think all I want is to just be a part of that, right?
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And it consumes you for a certain certain moment of time till you stop letting it consume you anymore.
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But now when I look back, I'm like, I kind of feel like that ability to sort of come in and not be a part of a group or a pack and then find my way, and find my way through making these relationships has actually been one of the biggest gifts, in part because, you know, A, I had come there having changed schools so many times and cities so many times.
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It makes you realize, like, I'm also not being very succinct about this, but there's something about like emotional connection and tie, and nothing can change that for you, right?
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How you feel about places, how you feel about things, relationships, and all of those things will always be with you.
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But physical daily, everyday change continues to happen to all of us, right?
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Commutes change, offices change, sometimes job change, tactical things change often.
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And I think if you can remember, like, what are those memories, that emotional um language that you've learned for yourself, that you've accumulated along the way, you actually get comfortable with that ability to change, knowing that the the other stuff is going to change no matter what.
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And you can't control that.
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I don't know if that made sense.
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I made a lot of dance to whole circle in my head.
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But it is about like, you know, for the child for and I and I I think maybe where I'd say it does make sense is oftentimes when I talk to now the people who'd never had those different friends or those different schools, not a lot of them have maybe changed big aspects of their life.
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And that's totally great if that's something that makes them happy and works for them.
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But when I think about myself and the things that I have wanted to do and been lucky enough to do, I think that if I was afraid of change and movement and that constant sort of what is happening now, I don't think I could have been at peace with what I do or been happy because it isn't for everyone.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Well, and speaking of that change, I mean, you went to architecture school in in Pakistan.
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At first in Pakistan and then I came to Pratt.
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And then you came to Pratt.
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I mean, that was a huge change.
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I mean, what made you decide to take the leap to?
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I mean, I know you lived in Houston and Singapore and other places.
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So what made you, though, choose to leave Pakistan after so many years?
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I think it was a couple of things.
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I think it was one, the opportunity to have a different type of an education, which was going to be such a gift.
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And, you know, certainly there was a time in Pakistan where there were more men than women.
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Um, it was just a very different type of industry.
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It does fast forward make me so pleased now when I go back and I teach sometimes at the school that I went to, or I meet like these groups of young emerging architects.
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It is like the balance between men and women, and they are from all over the country, and they speak many different languages, and they have so many different life experiences that enrich the profession.
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That didn't exist when I was there.
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It was a small group, it was a very specific type of group, and there were not a lot of women.
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So now you have this opportunity to come to a place and continue what you think you want to do around different people with more space, with more uh ability to expand your thinking.
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So that was, you know, certainly the gift to come and take that.
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It is funny though, because you know, then you get here and you start to understand that there's so much more than what I thought was the study of architecture.
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And now there's layers to the onion, and you start getting into it.
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And then I was in my fourth, I was like, yeah, I was, I would say eight months away from graduating.
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And I was like, I don't think I want to be an architect.
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And my dad was like, absolutely not.
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You will finish this degree.
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What you choose to do after this is you.
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Right.
00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:31.199
But please do not be in such a hurry to change yet again.
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:37.759
I love that you were learning these new things and you think you would like to do all these other things, can you please graduate first?
00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:38.240
Right.
00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:46.559
You know, and it is that sort of thing of like the more you learn, the more you see, but you have to be open to it, right?
00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:52.559
If you're not open to it, I think your experience of it could be different.
00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:53.360
Yeah.
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:56.240
No, and I think that's an an interesting point.
00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.320
Like everyone always asks me, like, what's one piece of advice you'd give, you know, your younger self?
00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:05.840
And I'd always say lead with yes, you know, and try try it before saying no.
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:11.600
I think it changes as you get older, but like I think then, you know, saying yes is super important.
00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:18.559
I had a boss who'd say there's something about like there's stupid yes and smart yes.
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:24.000
And, you know, a smart yes is one that I think where you ask yourself questions.
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.399
You may not know the answers, but why are you doing this?
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.519
What's driving it, you know, versus I want to be rich tomorrow, you know, and that's a stupid yes.
00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:39.120
And sort of like that ability to really question yourself and your motivations and your desires.
00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:46.240
I think if you are true to yourself and your circumstances, I think that qualifies as a smart yes.
00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:46.639
Yeah.
00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:47.679
No, I love that.
00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:53.840
I always say like there is the power of yes, and then there's also the power of no and like knowing when to say no.
00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.360
But I kind of like the smart yes and the stupid yes better.
00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:02.639
Um, so you fell into hospitality kind of backwards almost.
00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:05.600
You know, it was uh is by luck, right?
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.039
Yeah, there's a lot of there were a few doors that closed.
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.279
Oh, so you know, in keeping.
00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:11.679
Yeah.
00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:17.759
Um, so you know, when I did my undergrad, I um graduated and I moved back to Pakistan.
00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:21.519
And I moved back to Pakistan because I wanted to get married.
00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:27.360
And my, you know, fiance was living there, and that was where life was going to be.
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:33.120
So, you know, did this degree, packed up, left my beloved New York, and off I went.
00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:41.679
And I had this vision of what my life was going to be, you know, and what 24-year-old doesn't have a vision of what their life is going to be.
00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.039
Um, but you know, it was a lot of other things.
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.080
It was different things.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:53.279
It was what my how my personal relationship was driving my geographic choice from a career perspective, what that meant.
00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.440
Like what were the types of roles I was going to focus on?
00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.279
I was teaching, I was traveling, I was doing other things.
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.399
And, you know, the marriage did not work out.
00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:19.919
And yeah, my mother said something to me that I, it's funny, I thought of this often of late in a few different instances of just at some point in the spirit of the smart yes and stupid yes, you can only do what you can do, right?
00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.000
And you try to, you give your best to a situation.
00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.639
If there's a problem, hopefully you're giving your best to solving the problem.
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:32.559
But at some point, you can't force it, right?
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:37.200
And at some point, you kind of just have to say, I did the best I could.
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.279
I am going to step out of this.
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:42.480
If it is meant to be, it is going to be.
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:49.600
And let me tell you, fast forward for a type a Virgo control freak.
00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:51.759
I still do live by that.
00:11:51.840 --> 00:12:00.720
And I feel that in the doors that have closed, like, you know, when the marriage did come to an end, like at no point will I ever look back and say, I could have done one more thing.
00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:12.559
No, I did the best I could with what I knew and how I knew it, and it didn't work out, and a door closed, but the door that opened one was one that I got to come back to New York.
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.159
And I got to fall into this world.
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.600
And, you know, if that had stayed, this would not have happened.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:26.960
Now that's time and hindsight that's teaching me that, you know, some big doors closed.
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.879
Like I thought I was going to do one thing, and now here I am back.
00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:33.200
And, you know, that was one.
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:39.200
The second was that, you know, when I was in graduate school, I was just doing industrial design.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.399
I didn't really have an inclination of where it was going to go.
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:50.000
I had this incredibly interesting job, but it was at a place that wasn't for me.
00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:50.559
Okay.
00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:55.200
And it was mostly because the discipline of what they were doing was not of interest to me.
00:12:55.279 --> 00:13:00.240
And I think there are people it exhibit design, I think exhibit design is very hard.
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.559
I think people do it beautifully.
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:13.919
I mean, look at I mean, every time I go to the the Met show at the, you know, uh every summer, I have I'm reminded of just how deceptively simple and yet how difficult it is.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.039
It wasn't for me.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.399
And I had this moment of like, I don't think I can do this job.
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:19.519
I do need a job.
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.960
I want to stay in the country.
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.559
How does this all work?
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:28.000
And I remember looking at the contents of my bank account and being like, can I wing this?
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:35.120
And I sort of did the math and I was like, okay, I need to find a job quickly, but I can quit this job.
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:36.399
And I quit.
00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:40.320
And everyone's like, who quits before they get another job in hand?
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.440
And my thought was, I wasn't happy doing that.
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:45.360
I was focused on my thesis.
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:50.720
I knew that I had to finish strong with my thesis in order for me to get a job I loved.
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.440
And it was like I took a gamble.
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.279
And, you know, subsequently that door closed.
00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:07.200
And I was out of class one night and I was talking to my friend, and her boyfriend was like, hey, you know, we need someone to come help at this hotel company.
00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:10.320
Why don't you come work with us for a couple of months?
00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:16.399
And um, I'll help you figure out a job, like, you know, introduce you to people and this sort of thing.
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.960
And you need work, I need help.
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.080
Let's do this.
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:29.440
And next morning I remember the phone rings, and it was the HR department at Starboard Hotels and Resorts, and they were like, Um, we believe you're joining us in White Plains.
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:30.559
And I was like, Wait, what?
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:31.840
You're like, White Plains?
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:44.080
I live in the Metro North, here we come, you know, and it's just like it's gambles, but things, and you know, you you don't, I didn't really know.
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:53.279
And maybe when you're younger, you're more fearless, so that the smart yes and the stupid yes, or but all I heard was, okay, this is someone I know.
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.960
It's a job.
00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:58.639
Um, they seem to want me for this duration.
00:14:58.799 --> 00:14:59.919
I have a few months.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.799
I've gotten a reprieve to figure my life out.
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:08.879
And I mean, little did I know that it would be this thing that you fall into and then you never want to leave.
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:20.320
I have maybe this is too personal of a question, but with the door closing with your, you know, with the divorce, were you then able to come back to New York with like a full heart of it?
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:26.639
Because were you do you think when you were in New York and you had this other life still looming, you weren't fully integrated?
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:32.559
I always wonder about how present some, you know, you need to be to really be part of things.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:34.320
I think it's a great question.
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:38.639
And I think you don't know it till after.
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:39.200
Right.
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:56.480
You know, and sometimes I do believe that when I came back around the second time, my perspective was very different because the second time around, it was like, I'm here left to me, I'm not going back anytime soon.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.759
And now I need to figure this out.
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:09.039
And I think that that does alter your perspective and the way you approach things, the way you make decisions.
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:09.759
Absolutely.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:10.960
It's a great question.
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:11.440
Yeah.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.000
The safety, what is the thing, right?
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:15.919
There's something about a safety blanket.
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:27.200
Yeah, like there's though you have it, your uh ability to push yourself or your desire to push yourself is perhaps a little bit different than when you're like, I have nothing to lose.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:27.759
Right.
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.279
Like, and and this is all on me now, right?
00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:46.960
Like there's no one else that can help me get to the end goal, which I think is very scary but very empowering and almost brings out another side or brain function, you know, like something it like motivates you in a different way than you know, the other one does.
00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:53.679
So there's something about like we were talking about this at Thanksgiving, imagine of all things.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:17:21.039
But like, you know, when you and survival is an extreme word, but I think when when you really have to get things done, and you you know, things have had to sort of uh fall down, and things have had to kind of show you where the gaps are, that you can really get into it and start to fix it for yourself in a way that maybe, you know, wasn't even visible before.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.640
Yeah, a hundred percent.
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.880
No, I think that's a great way to put it.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:35.359
Um, and so this one temp job turned into a much longer stint at Star Wid, and then again, you know, then we can get that then yeah, now to Marriott.
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.960
Has there been, you know, going back to this whole letting go?
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:45.680
Um, has there been throughout your career at Starwood slash Marriott, um you've gone through a lot of different roles.
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:51.200
Has there been a specific role you let go or that m that made space for your current position?
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:57.519
Or is there something you kind of had to let go of to advance in your career in the way that you have?
00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.319
New York.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:17:59.759
I had to leave New York, right?
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:00.160
Yep.
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:12.160
When Marriott offered me this role, originally they had said, you know, we'd like you to come to Bethesda, but then at some point in the conversation, they even said, you know, but you could do it from New York as well.
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:18.160
And I had this moment for myself, like, okay, if you're going to do this, do it.
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.480
Don't go back and forth on the Amtrak, move.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:35.200
Get up and do it and go and immerse yourself in it so that you can stand in line for coffee and do all the things that you're just never going to have time to do before.
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:37.599
And it was an adjustment.
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.680
I mean, leaving New York was quite hard.
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.359
It was not, you know, the older you get, the more fixed you get in your ways.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:48.640
But conversely, now, you know, and it'll be nine years soon since I've moved here.
00:18:49.039 --> 00:19:24.799
Um, there's also been these really fantastic moments of like being able to ride the elevator with Arnie Sorensen, you know, or just sort of run into people in like the loveliest, most authentic, real ways, where you're literally just saying good morning, but there's sort of this relationship that is created, or there's this awareness of who does what, when, where, and how that you just can't do when you're remote or you're running back and forth, you know, to catch a plane, to get on a plane.
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:51.200
And so it's again, time the time piece is coming back into all of this of I had to leave that to do this, um, because it was the only way I was going to learn this company and its sort of deep roots of culture and what makes it tick and who the people are, and you have to be in it.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.960
Yeah, and you have to give it 110%, right?
00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:00.000
Like if you are doing it remotely, you do like 70-75% to your point.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.079
Like it's nice to be fully immersed.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:14.480
And I was watching something the other day that, you know, the you know, I I do think working remote and having that capability is amazing for many different reasons, but today, case in play.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.680
Exactly.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:23.519
Um, but at the same time, they're saying, you know, one in three friendships start at the office, one in five romances start, you know, start in the office.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:38.400
That people are, you know, you're missing like mentors are found there, you know, things are formed in an office space to your point, like just that morning, hello, the you know, the quick meeting, you know, because you need something done, you know, like you have a quick question.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.720
Like, I think that you miss that.
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:53.759
And so I think, you know, you moving down there, especially before COVID when there wasn't a choice, you know, and now after COVID and seeing the two, you know, now that you guys are back in the office, and you got to create that, help create that beautiful office.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:21:02.240
It's it's definitely got this sort of the value of the time spent and the choices made.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:08.480
I think, you know, I now feel that I have my place in the conversation.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:13.200
And, you know, that only comes from what, you know, anything, Stacey.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.200
The more you put in, the more you get back, and you know, the back and forth.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.240
It's funny though, when you were speaking just now, relationships form.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:25.440
I was thinking about the early days of Starwood and uh Metro North and White Plains.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:30.960
Like my first friends in the industry were the friends that I met riding that train to White Plains.
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:31.279
Yeah.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.839
And they are still my friends, and I'm still connected to them.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:46.640
I mean, you know, and it was the people I worked with at Starwood, but then there was that first line of vendor partners like Katie Daly, because sometimes she'd ride the Metro North with us because she had to come call in Starwood, you know.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:54.559
And it's again this this blurring of they are people you work with, but they're so much more than people you work with.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.359
Like, you know, they become like an extended part of your family.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.759
Many people I work with are like, I see more of
00:22:00.160 --> 00:23:38.799
my coworkers and do my you know my family there's something about that that pulls you together yeah you're yes it's your chosen family in a way um has there been anything I guess well let's talk about you did leave Starwood Marriott World for a bit to um go to Noya House you know that was a change that was letting something go to try something else why was that important and how did how do you think that helped your you know your career after um you know that was an interesting one I I now laugh at myself a little bit like I thought I was burnt out from hotels I don't know if I thought I was burnt out or if I was tired or I felt that I needed a new place to like focus my brain and you know the way it all sort of happened I was introduced to the founders and you know they were absolutely lovely um and welcomed me from minute one I think what that it was a couple of things going there I learned new things that I don't think you can ever learn in school you know it's this ability to be sitting in a design meeting one day at Rockle Group and then the next day you're dealing with the fire marshal because you know the sprinkler head is something and I'm like wait what sprinkler head you know wait where is it wait and no no and then I'm like wait who's the consultant who's the engineering person it's like no no we're all of it you know and so it's the becoming resourceful and understanding when to call the experts and how to call the experts and all of that.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:24:06.079
But I think why I like what I take from that time was it I went from corporate America to a startup and it was the reminder of now you're gonna roll up your sleeves and you're gonna do this yourself and you're gonna figure it out and the beauty of Neue House then was it was built on this premise of a community of people coming together, right?
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:27.680
Whether it is to work with together to solve problems with together to socialize with together but this idea of community and people and I think what even working there became very clear was if you didn't know how to figure it out on your own, there was probably someone who could help you.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:35.279
And you could only figure it out if you took the time to get to know the people to find out what you know everyone did.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:57.759
And the lovely thing is fast forward I mean I've been gone now almost 10 years I'm in touch with almost everyone that I worked with and you know we still send recommendations back and forth to people like hey you need a person call so and so you need this try this you know and so that premise of community right still exists still exists.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:19.839
So I was able to one door closes one door opens I was able to take things from it that have stayed with me and then even as the Neue House chapter closed for me people you can't take the people away right they stay and that's something that has stayed with me as I continued into the next thing.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:37.440
Yeah no 100% has there been any mentors along the way that have helped you realize to move on from something or do something different or just has you know given you a piece of advice that's kind of stuck with you?
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:47.039
I think you know the best mentors that I've had um are all grounded very much in the in the in the fine art of tough love.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:26:01.119
And so what I love about that is that they don't judge me and I mean they've seen all kinds of do I do this do I do that and you know I think it's like the people who see you first.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.920
And in the seeing you they sometimes remind you about things that you've forgotten to see in yourself.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:15.200
They will also help you reshape some of what you're trying to do where I wouldn't do it this way.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:55.599
Would you consider it this or I mean I have an old boss who regularly tells me even now he's like feel free to cool your jets a little bit like you know like you get so spun up on an idea and when you hear it from people that you trust and respect immensely who you know have seen your growth I think it is again the value of opportunities change and move on but the those people they're still there they're all you know a text message away and um if you want to have real talk with them and really get into it they'll give you real talk.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:23.279
Yeah which I think is the best type right like we don't need that's why we need them yeah so that and it's why they're not parents they're not siblings they're not your coworkers but they are people who understand aspects of you and have seen you under many different situations of duress maybe and say they know the best of you right they also know when you need help and why you need help.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:44.319
Yep yep exactly has there been so you oversee a bunch of different brands at Marriott um is there talk about process a little bit and how you've had to you know you you were at some of the brands when you started and now you're back you know reevaluating them and you know re-looking at them in a different light.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:29:48.559
So how have you had to kind of almost let go of stuff you did to get the brands to where they are and also how are you looking at what you know the industry needs to let go to you know continue to really evolve these you know these multiple brands the brand thing is almost funnier because like there's so many things right that you look at and you're like oh I did that 20 years ago that's terrible why would I have done that you know and again time right you look at things and you think in that moment you did the right best possible thing with the technology available the the the fabrication or whatever it may be and now you look at certain things you're like oh it's so much easier to do that definitely we should have never done that and but I will say that I I don't have I'm not and maybe this is an opportunity for me I'm not defensive about things I've worked on I get very defensive about things other people have worked on that I might have been watching and I see the beginning to end of it and then I'm like you can't do that you can't remove that that was the core principle of this thing you know and I don't know I find it maybe sometimes it's easier to defend friends it's easier to defend things that you are not in because you're like but I saw it end to end like don't touch that don't change that like no that's no no if you're not following it it's someone's not explaining it to you properly you know and I find that like for all the brands particularly some of the Starwood brands as I'm now seeing them grow up and morph into other things and grow um there are times where I'm like oh I didn't work on that and I'm like oh I guess they don't understand that thing that happened before and maybe someone hasn't told them or maybe someone hasn't explained it properly or then maybe sometimes it was just a good idea in the moment and you know business evolves and customer needs evolve and that's what evolution is you know I think you bring up an interesting point.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:56.000
It's like I think sometimes when we're so ingrained in what we do it becomes very personal.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:06.960
And so almost letting go of that personal, you know, like it is personal but somehow allowing yourself to see it from a different light right not like this was the best you know this was my decision.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:16.319
So like it should have been correct but like oh that was my decision but you know like it you know it needs to change now which is a hard lesson I think to learn.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.599
It's a hard lesson.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:29.039
I also think you know as you're speaking and thinking to myself like what you and I do has a has a lot of similarity in that we're storytellers differently.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:40.559
You absorb the world and you sort of construct you know these tales if you will that tie to one another or help people in telling their story.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:31:07.039
And it's so much easier to do it when you're not talking about yourself but you're you know you're talking about someone else and you can really help them celebrate their success and you know if there are things that didn't go well you can even help them manage that messaging right and it's so much easier and you can do it with such whole heart and transparency when it's someone else versus when you're looking at your own work I'm kind of like yeah I did it it was fine.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:07.599
I liked it.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.200
I loved this part I didn't like this part.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:48.480
I can't afford this this is stupid this was just this was this was less a game we were going to see how long it would last before it would get you know cut out and that's a different approach and maybe it's because you know when it's your own when it's your own narrative you're a little bit more like life I'm gonna take chances I'm gonna try and make smart yeses I'm gonna try and but you're trying to shape it rather than when it's someone else's story, someone else's brand, someone else's project I feel like there's this respect factor that comes into play where I'm like oh don't mistell that story.
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:54.880
That's not how it was you know yeah no that's my own stuff I'm like I can I can defend it.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.559
I can explain why it was a good idea or a bad idea or what I learned.
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:35.599
Yeah no 100% that makes a lot of sense but I do love how you protect other people too I think that's you know something that you've been amazing at in your career is you know really elevating different designers and vendors and collaborators across the board I think it's because look there's so many I mean there's we work with so many amazing people right and if there's one thing that I think we all know it's that inspiration and ideas and talent comes from so many different parts and pieces.
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:48.880
And you know even as I was talking to like recently there's some um young ladies who have been awarded um the NEWH scholarships and talking to them and about their stories and where they've come from and what they want to do.
00:32:49.039 --> 00:33:01.200
And I was thinking like oh your lives are ahead of you and you guys are going to have so much fun and you're gonna experiment and you're gonna learn things about yourself and your work and what you're good at.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:07.759
And I feel that it applies to all of us and whether it's young designers or products, right?
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:16.400
Some of it you figure out together like oh this seemed like a good idea when we were building this and now here we are 20 years later and you're like oh maybe it wasn't such a good idea.
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:32.799
But that's the ability to work with people you respect and who you know what they're good at and they know what you're good at and then you can truly partner and that means that even understanding like you don't know what you don't know.
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.039
I you know like we're not all experts at everything.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:43.680
No we're not and as soon as you learn that then you bring other amazing people to the table and you learn so much.
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:50.720
And some of them you learn the hard way right because you've done certain things and then like something blows up and then you're like oh that was not good.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.640
But right door closing right it is a learning.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:28.719
Yep maybe messy but a learning nonetheless you know not as clean as you'd like it to be I guess layering on what you just said is kind of the last question you know as you said they have their careers ahead of them what looking back at the you know the 10 year old that went to Pakistan you know and had to learn a new language and you know find new friends what what do you think you wish you knew then or what would you tell yourself then that you know now um you know maybe around letting things go or just around a piece of advice?
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:37.440
I think it's I I still think what I'd tell the 10 year old is what I'd say today is that you have to try your best.
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.920
Like actually don't just say you didn't actually from your soul try your best.
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:50.880
You know I watch young kids playing sports and you see how they try like winning is a real thing.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:35:00.800
You see it three times a weekend and then some but it's like there's how do you when you are younger and you are less jaded just try.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:06.079
Do it do it do it but do it properly don't fake yourself do it.
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:42.079
And then over time if you continue that then you learn that the good will be very good the bad will be tragic and you just kind of have to learn how to like learn from it and not make the same mistake twice and share what you've learned with the people who want to learn so that they don't make the mistake protect them teach them just the way people are teaching you it's like it's this whole circle of things but in order to play in that you first have to try everything and really try it.
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.440
Don't just fake try it.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:43.920
Right.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:51.840
And like we said like you said really try it like 100 and something percent I think I yeah joke all the time that my son Jack does everything at 70%.
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:53.599
I'm like can we get to like 85?
00:35:53.840 --> 00:36:04.559
Yeah yeah yeah yeah just get there so and then the other two are probably operating at a collective of 300 yeah so so that's what's happening here every weekend.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:06.320
So I 100% agree.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:11.199
Well thank you so much for being my my guinea pig and first conversation.
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:13.760
I'm happy to thank you for having me.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.119
Well so we'll see I love I I do love it.
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.760
I love it because I think you ask a very good and real question.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.519
You know and sometimes you have to be asked the question to think about it.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.079
But then when you start to think about it you're like oh my God everybody's got the stories.
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.480
It's just what do you remember?
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:33.679
What did you learn from?
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:34.880
What did you grow from?
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:52.960
Yeah and I think that's what has been my biggest takeaway over the last few months is like everyone I've talked to has had a similar story of sorts or had to let some you know so I think that's where I'm really excited about this podcast because it really means a lot in many different ways.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:53.519
Yeah.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:54.239
For sure.
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:57.920
Thank you thank you
