Altered States with Rahi Chun

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All right.
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I had to pause a very enthusiastic conversation to hit record.
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Uh today I'm really excited to be speaking to you, Rahi.
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Um we are only just getting to know each other a little bit.
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I don't have so much personal history with you, but I am taking your amazing genital dearmoring, genital mapping and genital dearmoring course or three keys.
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And today we're gonna talk about altered states in somatic sex education.
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Um Rahi, I would love to hear you introduce yourself.
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What is it that you that that you do?
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How would you like to be known?
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Yeah, great.
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Um well I would just like to be known as Rahi.
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And um some of my experience uh involves um really learning the art of genital dearmoring from different disciplines.
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And I never like planned it out that way.
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I just kind of followed my curiosity and ended up studying with different uh teachers from different disciplines of genital dearmoring.
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And so, you know, I would learn, go to Thailand, learn, you know, Kar Sai Ne sang or Chineseong, and then come back and interweave that into my sessions.
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And then over a number of years, it just kind of became this tapestry of intersecting uh disciplines around genital dearmoring.
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And I think that's what I'm um known for because I teach it internationally.
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Um yeah, and like yourself, I'm a somatic sex educator, uh sexological body worker, and um just really fascinated by the potential of these modalities to heal all kinds of aspects of our psyche and our bodies and our um, you know, the stories that we carry in our consciousness about what's possible and who we are.
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Yeah, beautiful.
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It really can touch every aspect of how we show up in the world and experience ourselves.
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It's something that's what I love about it too.
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It's sexuality is such a powerful portal.
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It's it's an amazing portal.
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And you know, to your comment before we started recording, I do feel like it is this universal, uh, universally potent portal to really alter consciousness, uh, self-identity, uh, embodiment, like so many things, because it goes to the core of our existence.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Pleasure, pleasure, aliveness, life force, moving.
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Yes, yes, and and embodiment inhabiting, you know, this vessel that, you know, like if you think about it, in the womb, there was just existence, there was no separation.
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Uh, and then if you consider what what it was like, you know, our consciousness before being in the womb, it was just total oneness, you know, or that's my understanding of it.
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And then, you know, as we age, as these, you know, experiences that cause the body to unconsciously guard itself or remember certain experiences that are harmful.
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So we protect ourselps, emotionally, physically, that state of oneness starts to get fractured.
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And I feel like the portal that is our sexuality, because it is so alive and so all-encompassing, it can restore that fragmentation, you know, in the psyche and in the body, you know, much like a lot of psychology psychedelic experiences do, when you get a glimpse of that whole of that universe of that primal wholeness where there is no separation.
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And so I feel like that's you know, that really speaks to the potential of sexual healing, sexual wholeness, sexual medicine as the medicine that that that it really is.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And just hearing you speak like that, I mean, we're really already squarely in the territory of you know, altered states and transformative, transcendent experiences that can be used for healing and learning.
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Um how do you understand the relationship between uh sexuality and and consciousness and and altered states?
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And how does that show up in your practice?
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Yeah, these are great questions.
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Um I believe the more we inhabit our body, the more present, the more safe we can feel being present to the sensations.
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And, you know, it's kind of like if you imagine our body's sensations and the possibility of experiencing it, like the galaxy, you know, what we experience is just like a tiny fraction of it.
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And and, you know, you know, so so as far as sexuality and consciousness uh and and my practice, I feel like um sexuality is the sacred portal of inviting this expansion of consciousness by re-inhabiting or expanding the in the habitation of one's embodiment.
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And I think with that comes this invitation to be with the kind of universal cosmic consciousness that created everything.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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I mean, we're a macrocosm of the micro, we're a microcosm of the macrocosm.
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And so um, yeah, and so as it relates to my practice as a sexological body worker, um, you know, whether it's working with individuals or with couples, the invitation in everything I do and all that I facilitate is creating as safe a space as possible for the client to feel and inhabit more of their body than they're used to.
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So we all have a default state of embodiment, you know, what we need to function in the world.
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And um, you know, I would argue that we are so detached from our natural states of embodiment, you know.
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I mean, just a hundred years ago, you know, before all these this technology and machinery, you know, we were much more active, much more physical.
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We were with our, we were working with our bodies a lot more.
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And so in sessions, that's the aim is to bring people back into their bodies and pleasure and uh erotic consciousness or erotic uh energy is a really powerful and and accelerated way to create new neural pathways in the you know mind, mind-body kind of spectrum and consciousness.
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Yeah, it feels to me like sexuality is such an interesting place when you what I when I was listening to you speaking, I was having this feeling come up of how efficient our neurology can be.
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We do a lot of things again and again and again, and so we have that wiring cemented, and everything outside of that kind of goes a little bit dormant, and we're not needing to feel those parts of our body or feel those parts of the experience where we can be on autopilot, and that can happen in sexuality as well.
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In fact, it's like very common in sexuality.
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Yes, because of maybe the like the cascade of chemicals that are being released with pleasure, it can get really wired in, but that's also where there's so much potential for opening things back up.
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It really does seem like this beautiful kind of like paradox, paradox in there where it can get the most entrenched is also where it can get the most free.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, I feel like you hit it right on the head, and I feel like it's most entrenched.
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Like, I feel like the human ego, it is the human ego's job is to protect itself and to maintain its construct.
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And what altered states of consciousness invite is the an e a death of the ego, yeah, right?
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And so it's kind of like a five MeO experience, or even like an LSD experience, where you really surrender to that which is bigger than you.
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And that's that's possible in altered erotic states, but it's the very thing that the ego is afraid of letting go of.
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Yeah, because it's like dissolution of that.
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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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So that and that's like a bit like it's quite a big experience.
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I mean, if you're experiencing ego dissolution, at some point you're aware, you're aware of that.
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You need to surrender into it, I suppose, in this context.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So does is that a part when you're doing genital mapping and dearmoring with clients, is that is that part of that process that surrendering and ego dissolution that's happening in your in your practice?
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I would say um it's not happening to the degree that I'm ref referencing now.
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Like when I'm with my partner, you know, we we um we generate certain erotic states where there is a dissolution of of the ego, but with a client, because the intention is to um it's to dissolve the part of the ego that feels like it needs to protect itself that's based on a past experience and no longer uh needed in the present.
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In that way, there's an there's an there's a releasing of this ego that is the protector.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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But that is done it's almost like IFS, almost IFS kind of language.
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Correct.
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Yeah, okay.
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Exactly, exactly.
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Where you know, we're we're we're dissolving the need or the the identity of the protector to be so entrenched.
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But the ego of the human identity is very much there because it needs to be there in order to uh draw on the resources that are necessary to release some of the armoring from past traumatic experiences.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So there's still that that it feels like if we if we use the IFS language, that connection to self is very there.
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And you're you're in that, but we can let go of this protector part, and then perhaps what's happening in a partnered context.
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I'm curious about this because I know you teach this for couples as well.
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Um, and I think and and what I really am curious about here is that I'm speak like to speak to you about this partnered context because a lot of somatic the work that I'm have been talking to people about is about solo practice or within um a practitioner client diet rather than necessarily speaking to somatic sex education that can then be activated in a partnered context.
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Um where was I going with that?
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Well, they're they're all quite yeah, go ahead.
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No, no, it's uh yeah, I'm just kind of doing a little map of of like the different, yeah, the different aspects of this.
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Well, let's so let's look at the map.
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You know, in you can certainly de-armor and guide yourself into altered states solo, you know, very very much so.
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You know, uh you know, you can do it with plant the aid of plant medicines or without.
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I've done it with both.
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And um bringing, you know, generating a certain erotic state, you can use breath, movement, sound, you know, to really disappear, you know.
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Uh you can do it, you know, as I mentioned, in a client practitioner setting.
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And in that setting, there there needs to be very clear boundaries in order for the client to surrender that aspect of the protector.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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So for that to happen, the client's body really needs to be in charge.
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Yeah.
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And the practitioner needs to really uh have the intention of being in service, right?
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For that protector to feel like its role is not needed.
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Yeah.
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And what I what I'm imagining also is that when that person is really A in charge and B conscious and aware, alert to the experience, they can then they learn from it.
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Like it's actually integrated as that happened.
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I was there, this other person's corroborating my experience.
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Whereas in a context, maybe with a partner where you're in an altered state, but there is this real like a letting go of that connection to self, perhaps it's not, there's there's not so much of a learning intention as there is this experiential intention.
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Exactly.
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And that and that's a big distinction.
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It's like, um, yeah, exactly.
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You described it exactly.
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So in a lover context, you really can have the the self or the ego dissolve.
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Because, you know, I mean, assuming that you feel perfectly safe with your partner and your lover.
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Um, and so the the uh altered state takes on something else, more of a full surrender, you know, much like you know, some what some plant plant medicines facilitate.
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Yeah, or like an intense BDSM experience or another context that might happen.
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Exactly, exactly.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, and you know, I mean, uh, I'd love to hear your experiences um of those altered states, because when I came back from uh my five MEO experience, there is a new context or like a new understanding of the place that I have in the universe, you know.
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And I actually it's very freeing.
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Yeah, you know, it's very freeing because all these personal issues and triggers, it's like whatever, you know, it's like it's just seems you know, like so trivial.
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And you know, in in lovership, when we reach those states, you you come out.
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I mean, I've come out of it just feeling like, wow, this is really it.
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You know, it's like everything else is like details and kind of whatever, it's kind of a play.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's the props and the they're they're changeable, and you can change the scene, but it's you know, maybe there's similar stories playing out the similar themes, and you see the ones that you get more attached to, and there can be that more observatory lens.
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Right.
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Maybe it's easier to access from having had an experience like that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you can come back and really be in more of a witness state, yeah.
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Than right, being in the movie, not realizing you're in a movie.
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Yeah.
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I I would love to hear about your altered states of consciousness.
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You mentioned you mentioned BDSM, which is so potent, and people don't realize like what gets released chemically, you know, like it can be like amazing.
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Oh, absolutely.
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I mean, I like I what's what's coming to mind is this is I I had I had an experience with DMT.
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Uh it would have been like eight years ago or something.
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Eight years ago, where there was like uh like I had a whole day of me and two and my partner and a lover were in bed all day, like playing, and then later on took some MDMA, went and danced under the stars, came back.
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I thought, oh, maybe it's time to take DMT.
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And I um took my pants off, as you do.
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We were going to smoke some.
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And we had a fire going because it was cold, it was the middle of winter, and I burnt my I burnt my ass on the fireplace.
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Oh my gosh.
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Oh my gosh.
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Probably touched my ass to the fireplace and was like, whoop, I should do this now because that's gonna really hurt in a moment.
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Oh my gosh.
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And I and I smoked this DMT and for 15 minutes was writhing around on the ground.
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I didn't quite, I didn't like pop out, but I did have what I can only describe as like a cosmic orgasm for 15 minutes just going, wow, wow, wow, oh my god, wow, wow, wow, where every cell in my body was like in orgasmic bliss.
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Yeah, this like undulating, spiraling.
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I was like, oh my goodness, pleasure.
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Like the nature of the universe is pleasure.
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There's pleasure, and I can like I have the capacity to be pleasure.
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Yes, yes, I have the capacity to be bliss, and there and and that was a I mean it was quite a layering of of hormones I can imagine would that were in my system at that moment, having just had like this burn on my butt and the whole day before that.
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But it really was like, whoa, that's possible, that's possible.
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And I've you know had had beautiful other experiences with substances and and without just with with breath.
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Um, I spoke a bit earlier about Gruna Bar Barbara T Barbara Corellis' urban tantra professional training, which blew my mind.
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I mean, speaking about BDSM, there's you know, like impact play and and other kinds of play where I've been like, whoo, really, yeah, really incredible.
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And you're right, I think people don't necessarily think about those as altered state experiences, but they really are.
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They really are, they really are.
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I mean, the thing I want to underscore is, you know, after despite having, you know, your ass burned for 15 minutes, you were in this, you were pleasure, you were it.
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Yeah, your body, your cellular memory remembers that forever.
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You have a context and an understanding of what you are.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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And I think that's the incredible thing about all altered states is yes, we go through them uh, you know, like in real, in real time, they're momentary, but on another, you know, time really isn't linear, it's really experiential.
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And your your the memories in your cells hold on to that forever.
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They have a context for what's possible.
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Yeah, yeah, for what, and I think for what is possible when everything is stripped away in a sense.
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Yes, like that's the substrate, that's actually what everything is made of.
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Exactly.
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And we've got all of this construct layered up that is like you know, quite restrictive, actually.
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Yes, showing up as a person in the world.
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Exactly, exactly.
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I mean, it's so many layers of conditioning and self-identity, and what you know, like we do as children, we learn what strategies get us attention and get us love, and and you know, and that just kind of evolves from there.
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But it is, it's a it's uh I mean, I I'm thinking of like a tapestry of like interwoven, but it's like stitches that keep us from our real, you know, from that, from touching those points of consciousness that is our reality.
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Yeah.
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What I really appreciated, Rahi, if I can just talk just for a moment about the genital mapping and dearmoring training, is how you invite us to go back to childhood and early experience around sexuality um in preparation for doing more physical practice and in um to support, I suppose, metabolizing what might be coming up in the dearmoring process.
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I it strikes me that that kind of preparation is that narrative of preparation isn't something that is necessarily a part of sexological bodywork training, somatic sex education training.
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I'm curious about how that um came up for you because I'm I'm also really interested in this set and setting question and how we do this in somatic sex education.
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It feels like that's a really important part um of that in this process.
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Yeah, um, I think for me, um I've always been, you know, I love children.
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I I don't have children of my own, but you know, I have a niece and nephew, watch them grow up.
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And it's, you know, my I have a master's in psychology, and I had a particular fascination around the developmental influences that we're all shaped by.
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And, you know, the neuroeffective touch training that I'm very fond of and that's influenced my work focuses on how those those experiences of our developmental years create body postures, armors, and that armoring in turn affects our behavior and our intimacy.
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And so, yeah, I've I've always, when I when I work with clients, I always look through that lens of wanting to understand when I thread back their adult issues or obstacles, I can almost always thread it back to something that happened in their childhood.
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And so that's always been a fascination of mine.
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And so it just kind of like naturally evolved in me where I saw the connections and then, you know, like created a body of work that kind that made sense that made that helped make make sense of it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I've I've I spoke, I spoke to Ellen Heed.
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We had a wonderful conversation and she talked about how in her work where she does a lot of this like craniosacral stuff and bone holding, which really can drop people into a more sort of hypnagogic place, she'll be looking for um signs that they're regressing.
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Like going back to an earlier developmental period, perhaps that's a period where there was some kind of rupture that wants to be met by the pro the person's process or the practitioner.
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Um how do you relate to that?
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Do you have experience?
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Is that something that you're mindful of in your work or looking for?
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And yeah.
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Um uh so when it comes to when it comes to genital armor, a lot of the armor is either as a result of an event from childhood or somehow rooted in some sort of childhood conditioning.
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So if it's not like a straight-out violation of boundaries, it may be um messages learned around sexuality, you know, when you're a child, it could be religious conditioning, you know, things of that sort.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:48.079
Um, and so when, you know, oftentimes when a client was on the table and we discover some armor, uh, you know, they might be going through an experience, and sometimes I'll just ask, How old are you?
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:58.480
And that will elicit, you know, the childhood, the, you know, the memory that is associated with that armor, you know, and it's not always explicitly sexual.
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:08.400
It could just be that, you know, their their body was developing, they were getting unwanted looks from a brother or an uncle, you know, a father, something like that.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:15.039
Um, but it often goes back to teenage years and definitely and oftentimes back to childhood.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:21.200
So, you know, I will often say, well, what did she want to say that she couldn't?
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.480
Or what what did he want to do that he couldn't?
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:37.519
And, you know, I'm uh a fan of Peter Levine and Semitic Experiencing, where, you know, so much of it is about um the interrupted defensive response or what was left unspoken or unexpressed.
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.599
So the life force is still feeling stuck from that childhood experience.
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:46.000
So to complete that, to have them say what they needed to say, you know.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:54.160
I mean, some, you know, I I've had instances where I've had a client who wanted to push you know an an older relative off of them.
00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:02.799
So I will step in as that older relative and they will push just to complete that energy, you know, that life force that wanted to express itself.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:03.519
Yeah.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:08.319
Yeah, that was a gesture that got stuck in on yeah.
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:09.279
Exactly.
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.319
Exactly.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:25.119
So, you know, when the protective gesture that's stuck in the body gets its expression, that aspect of the protector isn't isn't needed so much anymore, you know, because it's followed through and it's in its action.
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:54.480
So, you know, I mean, I've gone through processes where um we've used plant medicines to complete uh interrupted cycles of self-defense or created a new ending to a story that that was traumatic, you know, where we're you know, a group of us are role-playing under the influence of MDMA or socybin or something like that, which can be very powerful because it brings up emotion and it completes what got stuck.
00:25:54.640 --> 00:26:03.119
But that can also happen in um, you know, a session with a practitioner, um, when there's armor to release the armor.
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:03.759
Yes.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:09.279
And this would be without, like I imagine in that context, it's not with plant medicine.
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:10.160
Correct.
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:11.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:19.119
And the other context you're talking about is like more of a um, like you're with peers or with peers, yeah.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.000
Yeah, okay.
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:20.559
Yeah.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:29.119
Uh yeah, like we've had um something we call the Eros lab, you know, for a couple of years now up in in uh on Salt Spring Island.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:35.039
And it's, you know, six or seven peers, you know, mostly somatic sex educators.
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:39.839
So we are we all have like a similar language, you know, understanding of consent.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:42.160
So it's like we all trust each other.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:53.839
And that that container is very powerful because you can really surrender and go into your full-throated emotion or what past experience where you wanted something different.
00:26:53.920 --> 00:27:04.240
And there's other people of different ages who kind of end up being surrogate grandparents, surrogate parents, surrogate children, you know, because of the different because of our nature to project.
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:10.559
And and there's a lot of um, you know, rich metabolizing that can happen in that kind of environment.
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:18.799
Wow, what a beautiful community of practice to be able to immerse yourself in over a course of yeah.
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:23.920
And that's the same six or seven practitioners that have been uh actually people coming in and out.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.079
There's people coming in and out.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:33.119
Um, but there are certain principles that stay the same, which is that this is a peer-to-peer group.
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.319
There's no hierarchy.
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:35.599
Yeah, you know.
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:44.240
And the other big thing is, you know, we've been talking about you know, altered states from plant medicines and altered states from erotic energy.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:46.319
And this actually combines both.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.200
Yeah.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:48.240
Yeah.
00:27:48.319 --> 00:28:03.839
And in a peer-to-peer arrangement, it's feels more possible to be working with touch um and with you know, strong emotion in in those kinds of altered states interactive.
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:04.559
Yes.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:06.240
Yes, yes.
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:18.400
Because it's peer-to-peer, but then to your point on, you know, uh around set and setting, you know, before, you know, at the start of every day, we talk about boundaries, desires, fears.
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:25.119
Before every practice, we again talk about boundaries, desires, and fears because it can change moment to moment, you know.
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:32.480
Um, but what doesn't change is after a process is started, you know, those those agreements stay solid.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:33.279
Yeah.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:33.839
Yeah.
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:43.200
That's a like such an important like umbrella that exists, I think, in somatic sex education really strongly and would be so important for a container like that.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:53.599
The agreements we go in with or that we decide on before we're altered, before we've you know done the practice or taken the thing, they're they're in stone.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:06.720
They're in stone because you know, we we know, you know, we know how um, you know, our decision-making capacity, but also, you know, what erotic energy and desire can be.
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:08.720
Yeah.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.759
Yeah, yes, so it's it's set in stone and it's very important.
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:14.799
Yeah, you can always do less, but don't do more.
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.359
Yeah.
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:21.839
Don't do yeah, because that's that's the um foundation of the the safety in a container.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.680
Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:52.640
Um, what has what's been coming up for me as we've been having this conversation about metabolizing um maybe unprocessed early experiences or experiences where some kind of protective urge was dampened for you know, whatever whatever reason, and and also looping back into this kind of entrenched habit of neurological efficiency piece that can happen around sexuality, where we can get really, you know, stuck in our our ways.
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:58.559
I've had a a few conversations where we've the the concept of critical learning periods has come up.
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:14.640
Um and this idea that psychedelics and particular kinds of altered state experiences can sort of reopen a critical learning period.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.039
Reopen a critical learning period in the wake of the experience.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:36.720
Um so I'm just wondering what what maybe what your personal experience with that is or what you see with with clients or with peers around what is possible um kind of in the wake of these experiences.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:46.720
Yeah, I've never heard it um described as that, but it really is a critical, you know, learning or rewiring or you know, reconditioning period.
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:59.119
So um, you know, like I'm a big uh advocate of creating new neural pathways, you know, between the brain and body.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:10.000
And we know that, for example, there's been so much data on psilocybin and how that plant actually it's known to create new neural pathways in the body and in the psyche.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:11.920
And that's that's what my experience has been.
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:29.119
But I have found that when um you know, we're very Pavlovian, and when it comes to sexual behaviors and patterns and conditioning, uh, you know, and and a lot of that can be wired or created from past traumatic events.
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:35.599
You know, a lot of people's erotic, erotic core themes could be based on, you know, being beaten as a child or something like that.
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:42.559
And, you know, they they may be, it's an erotic charge, but and and there's no judgment about that.
00:31:42.720 --> 00:32:11.839
But there are to create other possibilities of other erotic charges, um uh erotic energy, because it is so uh it involves you know certain chemicals in the body that can create new um patterns, you know, because pleasure is something we aliveness is something as a human species we gravitate towards, it's very, very potent for creating new neuropathways, new habits, new um new behaviors.
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:23.519
And when someone, you know, when a client comes in and they say, I can only orgasm when my hair is pulled, or I can only, you know, get off when I'm having sex with a stranger, you know, there's no judgment about that.
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:36.000
But if the client themselves want other ways that are you know not dangerous or harmful, then I think it's really, really important to uh, you know, provide those possibilities.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:33:03.759
And erotic energy is a so when I talk about erotic energy, what I mean to say is if I have a client who can only orgasm when her hair is being pulled, then if they discover erogenous possibilities within their body that is even more pleasurable than what they're used to, that will often create a new neural pathway in the body because it's more pleasurable and more erotic.
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:12.400
So it's come it's coupling or wiring that new state of heightened arousal with, let's say, tenderness or safety.
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:14.880
And then they have a choice, you know.
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:22.400
So it's it's really potent in that way to create new new uh behaviors in the body by creating new neural pathways.
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:29.119
Okay, and the process by which you're doing that is let's get nitty-gritty.
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:31.359
Yeah, let's let's get nitty-gritty.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:40.319
So one key is uh making sure their nervous system is downregulated to a point where it feels safe.
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:45.599
And the more safe it feels, the more open it's gonna be to sensation, right?
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:53.279
And I would argue to neuroplasticity, because the more upregulated a nervous system is, the more protective, the more defensive it's and so on.
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.000
Um, so that's that's one big point.
00:33:56.240 --> 00:34:11.920
Then, you know, whether it's full body mapping or genital mapping, most I find that most bodies or most clients are just kind of stretching the surface as far as what they've experienced in regards to their erotic potential.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:27.039
So once they have a full-body um act of consent session where the erogenous zones of the full body are now online, and they can combine them, mix and match, and start to experience new sensations that they didn't know was possible.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:34.079
And then you bring in genital mapping where that can start to expand their capacity.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:43.039
Then you've got a downregulated nervous system that's open to sensation and that is really expanding its capacity for erotic charge.
00:34:43.199 --> 00:35:25.679
And, you know, it's not as easy as I'm describing it, A, B, C, because as the erotic charge capacity is expanding, you are bumping up against every experience that um, you know, that that caused and that wisely caused the resistance to feel more vulnerable, you know, whether that's like developmental, you know, issues with the biological family or relationship patterns or whatever it is, you know, and so all of that emotion gets metabolized, and then they, you know, ideally get to a state where they can create these new associations where it's not just the hair being pulled, but maybe it's the hair being stroked, and that gets wired with a higher erotic state.
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.800
Yeah, beautiful.
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:36.000
This um foundation of down regulation feels so important.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:42.079
I love this idea that it creates more bandwidth, that there's room for more movement.
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:48.159
It's greater like amplif, like the amplification of pleasure and arousal.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:53.920
Otherwise, you're only really working, you know, up here becoming insympathetic and then trying to build arousal on top of that.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:21.760
It's kind of peaky rather than yes, yes, and and and when you have the full waves, then you can be at peace, like having extended lower states of arousal is really important because it it trains the body to really luxuriate and feel the pleasure in that, so it doesn't always need you know this this limited bandwidth.
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.760
And then the love making could really go on for days and weeks.
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:31.440
There's no it doesn't have to kind of be on these train tracks towards climax all the time.
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:32.239
Yeah.
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:33.280
Yeah.
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:42.000
And and I would argue that that expands the capacity for different altered states.
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:55.599
Yeah, there is that, there's some interesting literature um around what uh what factors make it more likely that someone will experience a sexually induced altered state.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:06.239
And this is an idea that like absorption, absorption and and like downregulation capacity for that is a really is a really important factor.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:08.800
Yes, yes, I would agree.
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:39.360
I mean, just in in my experience, I have found that, you know, if we if me and my partner are making love, uh neither of us climax, you know, we bring it to a gentle close, and the next morning we make love again, we kind of pick up where we left off, you know, and then it does expand the capacity for the erotic energy to kind of go into new terrain.
00:37:40.000 --> 00:38:00.719
And so, you know, we really love playing with that because then when you get to on a pleasure scale of zero to ten, then when you get to a nine, you know, and you kind of sustain that enjoying the nine states, it really does start to um create, generate an altered state.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:10.079
And you know, like you know, we love that where it just becomes primal energy and it gets kind of like an ego dissolution.
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:12.320
Yeah, that's beautiful.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:20.960
You've really picked up this other pace that's come through in a couple of conversations too, which is getting rid of the orgasm agenda or like the pake orgasm agenda.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:25.119
Yes, it's very limiting, it ends up being very, very limiting.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:36.320
Now, you know, you know, I want to speak to listeners who, you know, who who may have never had an orgasm, you know, then of course they're they're wanting to experience that.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:57.679
But if you're if you've had if you've experienced that, I you know, a lot of couples we work with are chasing the orgasm, and it's actually a way to not feel as vulnerable, yeah, to short circuit the intimacy, yeah, you know, and to kind of feed the sexual ego, saying, Oh, good job, okay, we did that.
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:23.599
Yeah, and and if we're thinking about embodiment as this occupying the whole body and bringing awareness to all the subtleties within that experience, having such a focus on what's happening in a part of the genitals or you know, focusing energy or your attention there is really taking away from your embodiment.
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:36.239
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't allow for the moment-to-moment expansion, contraction, dance, you know, like unknown, you know.
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:48.639
And I feel like this is, you know, I feel like a lot of, I mean, at least in my practice, a lot of men tend to be kind of like directional and they want to get things right, quote unquote.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:59.519
And so they kind of like, you know, if something happened, you know, with a certain partner, they kind of get fixated on that, yeah, you know, on that pattern.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:06.159
And it really limits it to that train track when there are a million other train tracks to explore.
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.119
Yes.
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:08.559
Yeah, absolutely.
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:12.159
I work a lot with men and I can see that as well.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:19.760
And I I mean, I see that I think sexual scripts are very habituated and there's a safety in sexual scripts.
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:27.679
Um, you know, working as a sex worker, I've had a chat with a peer of mine who said, Oh, uh, the role is really to hold the script.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:42.880
Most people just want you to hold the script for them if they're coming for an experience that's you know, maybe more fantasy-based or for entertainment, it's uh great, there's a script, they're in charge of it.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.960
Right, right, right, yeah, yeah.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:47.840
Yeah.
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:58.800
Um, but coming back to altered states, it's like there's there are so many scripts that lead to altered states that that are just waiting.
00:40:59.360 --> 00:40:59.840
Yeah.
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:00.639
Yeah.
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:02.960
And there's this real unfolding.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:15.280
Um, and you can set this set the set and setting, create the groundwork for an altered set experience, but they're not the same experience.
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:17.760
Exactly.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:18.239
Yeah.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:28.159
The nature of it, it can't be, you know, like the nature of it is a a a living, changing organism, dynamic.
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:28.880
Yeah.
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:30.239
Yeah.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:31.679
Beautiful.
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:44.320
So I I'm really curious about I'm really curious about how altered states have featured in your personal journey into this work.
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.960
I know we started to touch on it before, and I went, let's start recording.
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.239
But I think we sort of worked our way our way back there.
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:53.280
Yeah, we did.
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:53.840
We did.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:42:10.559
Yeah, I mean, in my personal work, um, you know, the there's, you know, I know what I know, or I I know what I think I know, and that's probably less than one percent of what's possible to know.
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:10.960
Yeah.
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:15.440
And so, you know, like there's so much more to know.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:25.519
And, you know, like I'm very blessed to be in relationship with a partner who's also very much about altered states of consciousness and you know, evolving consciousness.
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:40.880
And so in in our partnership and in our intimacy, um, you know, every Friday we have a love lab where we are exploring different states of intimacy, pleasure, erotic states, and consciousness.
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.039
And sometimes we bring in plant medicines.
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:47.039
Uh, you know, more times than not, we don't.
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:50.639
And we're both somatic sex educators, we're kind of sex geeks.
00:42:50.719 --> 00:43:06.960
And so, you know, we're always exploring different things, and then, you know, sometimes I'll go and at the end of the day take notes, you know, because like, you know, a part of me is like, oh my god, there's so many courses we can create from you know our Friday Love Labs.
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:07.440
Yeah.
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:16.320
Um, but as far as altered states, we enjoy riding the nines, that's what we call them.
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:22.880
It's riding the nines on that scale, and all because uh it is like an ego dissolution.
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:40.159
Um, and what we have found is when we ride the nines and we explore those erotic states for extended periods of time, we touch into a lot of childhood wounds that come up to be metabolized.
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:40.639
Yeah.
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:58.880
And I think it's there's something around the sense of safety in a very vulnerable state that brings out aspects that uh have been socialized out of our adulthood that feel safe now to come to the surface.
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:07.840
And Your stuff gets material gets metabolized in a really um beautiful and I would say even efficient way.
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:22.320
Yeah, within a loving relationship where there I mean it does help, I think, that you both seem to have this real curiosity for exploring and and kind of really riding the the edge.
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:30.239
I mean, the frontier of combining sexuality with you know plant plant medicine.
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:53.679
There's it does feel like I like I I have this um real curiosity about it, and then there's also trepidation because it does feel like that's that's like really vulnerable exposed territory where there's also it feels like there's there's risk, there's something that comes up in me around around that.
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:03.760
But it feels like you've both have so much experience personally and professionally, and it's like you've been able to come together so beautifully in this relationship.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.800
Um take me back, take me back to the beginning.
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.239
Where did where did this curiosity start for you?
00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:17.360
Um uh I was probably 20 years old.
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:21.440
I was in college and I was living in Japan.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.599
I was a I was a foreign exchange student.
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:26.800
Japan, Japanese language and literature was one of my majors.
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:32.079
And um I I essentially was fascinated with Zen meditation.
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:38.800
Um, I found a temple in the north of Thailand that taught uh Vipassana meditation.
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:42.320
And I I went, I saved some money teaching English in Japan.
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:44.000
I went there for the summer.
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:49.679
And long story short, by like the seventh or eight, it was a 21-day retreat.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:56.079
By the seventh or eighth day, we were doing like nine or 10 hours of meditation a day.
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.440
An hour walking, an hour sitting, an hour walking, an hour sitting.
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:02.320
And maybe it was the 13th or 14th day.
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:16.000
I was I was in the middle of a walking meditation where all of a sudden I was no longer just the physical form that I was.
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:25.760
I became the the temple that I was meditating in, I became the walls watching my body, but I became the ceiling and the floor.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:29.360
And everything there was to know was known.
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:59.679
I don't know how that happened, and it never happened again, but I feel like my life's journey since then is like trying to understand or replicate in some way that experience of total surrender where the ego dissolves, and even my physical uh um like proprioceptive understanding of what I was dissolved.
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:04.239
Yeah, and so honestly, I think that's where it started, Sam.
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:11.519
Yeah, I think that experience, it just planted a seed where I'm like, well, how else can I experience that?
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:21.280
And, you know, uh altered states of consciousness, you know, it can come in in erotic intimacy, it can come with plant medicines, you know.
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:29.440
I mean, a dance is another, like, I like I've I never did a rave, you know, I wasn't part of the rave generation, but ecstatic dance.
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:40.079
I mean, I used to go three three times a week here, and just like you get to a state where you're physically like it's kind of beyond exhaustion, yeah.
00:47:40.480 --> 00:48:07.280
You know, yeah, and and and sometimes I would even like take um like a gram of psilocybin and then go to ecstatic dance and watch my body move in new patterns and in new ways that it never moved before, based on the music, and it's almost like the music is dancing my body, yeah, you know, but these are states that I'm fascinated with because of that early, you know, uh transpersonal experience.
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:11.519
And how did sexuality come into the mix?
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.840
Well, um wow.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:22.800
I mean, I would say I've always been a very sexual person.
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:30.239
You know, I was the one who got caught playing doctor with his neighbors, you know, when I was five, six, seven years old.
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:33.519
You know, I was always just fascinated with the body.
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:43.599
And and I kind of wonder like, I came out of my mom's womb with crooked legs, and so she lotioned and massaged my legs every day for three years, so they grew out straight.
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.559
So my body was very stimulated by touch.
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:55.280
And I think that that planted seeds to wanting to explore the body and exploring touch and exploring these ecstatic states.
00:48:55.519 --> 00:49:03.119
And so, you know, there was that, and then I mentioned, you know, the body electric when I was 24, you know, going into it.
00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:05.599
I had no idea what I was getting myself into.
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:11.920
It was three days of using erotic energy um to for for rebirthing experience.
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:14.880
And I was the only I think I was the only cis hetero guy.
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:16.639
It was three, 30 gay men.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:18.400
I was definitely the youngest.
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:23.920
And I was just electric for a week after that.
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:29.440
And I just wanted to know, like, what is this and how what can I learn about it?
00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:37.039
Yeah, and that led me to Taoist exercises and Master Montak Chia, and and then kind of evolved from there.
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:37.760
Yeah.
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:41.760
Okay, so this body electric experience was body electric.
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:46.480
You were charged up, charged up, and it was so simple.
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:53.840
Breath, touch, you know, movement, sounding just those keys, and it was electric.
00:49:55.440 --> 00:50:01.679
Yeah, yeah, beautiful, it was nice, beautiful, beautiful, yeah.
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:23.920
Yeah, and to go from these early experiences of like feeling altered in this meditation retreat, like completely beyond yourself, like and then so in your body, this other maybe all it's almost like the other end of the spectrum, it feels like so in your body, so alive, so charged up.
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:25.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:31.519
I mean, it's fascinating because it's I think it's almost like a circle, like they're on opposite ends of the spectrum, but somehow they mirror each other.
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:48.079
I mean, they're both highly ecstatic states, but one is an fully embodied, the ecstasies coming from within, and the other, you know, at the at the Buddhist temple was almost like like I was the galaxy, I was the universe.
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:48.960
Yeah.
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:50.800
It was wild.
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:51.599
Yeah.
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:53.119
Yeah, wow.
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:53.840
Wow.
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:54.320
Yeah.
00:50:54.400 --> 00:51:02.320
So that's, I mean, that these are the altered states that are possible, you know, as human, as a human being.
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:12.159
And I believe they touch into some remembrance of our core existence, whether that's in the womb or beyond the womb.
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:14.400
Yeah.
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:39.760
Um, I have a I have a question about because I this this project is intended to be supportive of practitioners who are working with sexuality, so somatic sex educators or sexological body workers who maybe recognize that altered states are a part of the work or who are interested in doing more exploration as a practitioner and personally as well.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:52.559
Um what if you could offer like a piece of wisdom to practitioners who are working with altered states or want to, what what would you say?
00:51:53.840 --> 00:52:19.280
Um well, you know, I mean the journey is so personal, but the journey really does involve um uh inviting your vessel to be as embodied as possible, you know, as embodied with with your life force as possible.
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:28.320
And so we do that, we can we can do that with sexual energy, um uh, you know, using the breath to get there.
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:54.800
But in answer to your question, I would really encourage sex bods and and somatic sex educators to explore your body like a lab of altered states, you know, and this requires like you know, a certain level of discipline and you know, your your what you eat and what you consume, and you know, being emotional toxicity and all that.
00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:20.639
But then it also involves, you know, the kinds of practices that expand your consciousness, like breath work, you know, like erotic erotic states, you know, receiving, you know, uh uh ecstatic erotic state massages and things of that sort, uh, and and really expanding your your capacity for those erotic states and to bring in plant medicines if that if that's your path, you know.
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:28.239
I mean, psilocybin uh is is known to create new neuropathways and you know it's it's all natural.
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:40.159
And so there are ways of combining them safely as well, but explore your body, like the lab that it is for these altered states, and erotic energy is is a really beautiful way.
00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:45.920
You know, we have our own pharmacological resource in our own bodies for that.
00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:52.400
Yeah, open up the pharmacy, open up the pharmacy, go to the lab, open up the pharmacy.
00:53:52.639 --> 00:54:03.199
I love that you have that you have a couple of labs that you've mentioned in this conversation, Love Lab with your beautiful partner, Ariel, and um Eros Lab.
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.079
Eros lab.
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:04.480
Yeah.
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:19.679
I feel that a community of practice and being in touch with other practitioners and being able to explore with other practitioners would be such a rich field for that kind of exploration.
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.280
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:31.840
Um yeah, when you have colleagues who are on the same page and have the similar skill sets, it's it's like gold.
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:33.840
Yeah.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:49.440
Um a question's just come up for me, which is that we're talking about kind of venturing into these ecstatic, ecstatic realms, um, experiences that are you know really expansive.
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:56.639
And it strikes me that just like we can go up on the wave, we're coming down on the wave is also important.
00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:05.840
What are you what are you looking for that tells you like, oh, maybe I need to, you know, take more time for grounding?
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:11.440
It's a time for integration, either in yourself or in your in your clients.
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:12.960
Where's the yeah?
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.599
I'm I'm curious to hear about your approach to that.
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:40.400
Yeah, that's really that's such an important question because um, you know, I used to be like a workshop junkie, you know, in a certain age of my life where I just couldn't get enough and wanted to, and you know, when I so with clients and sessions, it's so so critical that uh the emotional material that gets stirred up or touched into during a session fully integrates before there's another session.
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:42.559
And it's different for everyone, you know.
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:45.920
Some clients, you know, maybe there's not a lot of emotional material.
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:49.280
So they receive a session, you know, like later on in the week.
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:52.719
Someone else might need a month to integrate what's come up.
00:55:52.960 --> 00:56:06.719
Um yeah, I had a client recently who realized, you know, it was their father's um uh it was their father's conditional uh attention that has created all this havoc in her life.
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:13.039
And, you know, she just needs a lot of time to like, you know, like put the pieces together and and address that.
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:27.679
So integration between sessions, it really, it's really, really important to make sure that the emotional material is is that's come up is is integrated, it's metabolized, it's there, you know, there's a piece around it.
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:32.960
Um, so that's you know, I would say that's the essential for session work.
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:50.159
Um uh and for for you know personal work as well, like if there's a wound, and I think this is I think when it comes to couples, like it's it can be challenging because you know, issues people will get triggered in couples.
00:56:50.480 --> 00:57:02.239
And you know, there's a desire to make up, you know, if there's been a trigger, but a lot of times what's really needed is just space to be with those feelings, you know.
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:09.599
I think a lot of people are quick and eager to get flowers and make dinner and then, you know, like make up.
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.079
But maybe that's not the medicine.
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:36.719
You know, maybe the medicine is just to be with those the feelings of grief or sadness or anger, whatever it is, and just explore it like a lab, you know, and give space to those emotions so that it can actually be met, you know, and seen fully instead of being uh you know overridden by a a night on the town and thinking everything's hunky-dory.
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:43.039
Because obviously we all we've all had you know conflict where it just keeps recurring because it's never metabolized.
00:57:43.280 --> 00:58:13.199
So, you know, whether it's session work or you know, personal work with yourself or you know, like just having the spaciousness to integrate and knowing that the process is the journey, you know, it's not getting to a destination, it's actually dealing with and being with, you know, whatever material that it was too overwhelming to deal with when you were a kid or a teenager.
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:20.079
Now's the opportunity to be with it, you know, and that takes a lot of courage and a lot of tenderness and a lot of patience.
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:22.400
But that's really the medicine that's needed.
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:23.199
Yeah.
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:24.960
It's being with it.
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:26.559
Being with it.
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:27.280
Yeah.
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:33.280
So being mindful of where you know these practices can be really useful for bringing up material to work with.
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:38.320
But if there's material already there that wants to be worked with, it's probably not another ecstatic experience.
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.599
It's actually just being with it.
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:41.119
That is needed.
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:42.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:43.119 --> 00:58:49.840
And knowing what you need in aftercare and support, you know, to l really land gracefully.
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:51.519
That's going to be different for everyone.
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:52.559
Yeah.
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:54.320
Beautiful.
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:55.840
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:02.239
Is there anything that we haven't spoken about today that feels important to name or speak about?
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:06.719
Well, I feel like we've covered some good ground.
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:39.920
Um yeah, I would just say to piggyback on that last point, Sam, uh, know what you need in aftercare, whether it's with a personal process with your lover or a friend, or certainly if you've explored plant medicines before, and you you know what you need, both in rest, and you know, nutritionally and emotionally to make sure that you create the aftercare before you step into the process.
00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:40.480
Yeah.
00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:44.480
Because you will be so grateful, you know, that you did that for yourself.
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:45.119
Yeah.
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:45.679
Yeah.
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:46.320
Yeah.
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:50.719
Create the container that can hold the experience you're moving into.
00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:51.920
Mm-hmm.
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:53.920
Absolutely.
00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:55.360
Yeah, beautiful.
00:59:55.519 --> 01:00:01.760
Yeah, you can't if you try to pour pour a liquid into and you haven't built the container, it's just runs.
01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:02.719
Exactly.
01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:04.719
Yeah, and it creates a mess.
01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:05.039
Yeah.
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:05.440
Yeah.
01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:06.320
Yeah.
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:07.840
So it's so important.
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:08.480
It's so important.
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:09.519
Beautiful.
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:11.679
Rahi, thank you so much.
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:13.280
This is so welcome.
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.320
Has been such a beautiful conversation.
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:24.559
I've so enjoyed getting to hear more about your work and more about your life and get yeah, just get this beautiful time with you.
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:31.119
Um, you're so welcome, Sam.
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:31.920
This was a pleasure.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:33.280
I really enjoyed it as well.