[00:00:00] Augy: This episode personal, special, uh, someone I really look up to and someone I'm connected to, and for a long time, it's my sister Folami Jones, Shaylin Folami Jones, uh, has done so much work in so many different ways, but everything's centered around community. And as I've seen this strong, intelligent, determined woman grow up, um, I've seen her take on more and more and more.
That includes working with immigrant women that includes running her own cafe. That includes, um, having a midwifery degree and delivering over a hundred babies. And then now she just graduated with her law degree, super talented, super special, Folami Jones.
So welcome everyone to another episode of Empathize Others: The Podcast. And today I've got someone real special to me, uh, someone that I'm connected to, but yet, you know, this is a community person, uh, um, Forget the suspense, my sister, my younger sister Folami, and so happy to have her here. And, and rightly so, when I thought about this podcast, podcast, and I think about people that are passionate about community.
Listen, that's my sister. And we're going to go through, um, her connections to community, why it's so important to her, but there's so many levels in, as I saw my sister grow up as her being. Passionate and connected and actually needing community community was so important to her. So, um, what a perfect guest for us to have today, uh, in order to give her a chance to, to reflect and celebrate, uh, the, that kind of lifeblood that she has.
And, and, you know, we have the same dad and we've got the same kind of upbringing, but I mean, she comes at it, from a, a strong woman point of view. She comes at it from a global international point of view, which I always appreciated. So we want to welcome to the podcast today, my younger sister, uh, Folami Jones.
[00:02:39] Folami: Hello, and thank you. And if the apple don't fall far from the tree,
what can we say?
[00:02:49] Augy: Yeah. So, so Folami, I w I'm so happy to have you here because when I think about. Especially when I think about, you know, the sisterhood community, I really learned a lot from you, uh, around what that support looks like. And, and, and from almost like a matriarchal point of view versus a patriarchal point of view.
And I would say right from the beginning that, you know, our father is Rocky Jones and he was a civil rights lawyer and, and did a lot of things, but he did them and not to take away from it. Patriarchal kind of, point of view. It was an OG he was a guy, there were things that he did that came out of him being a privileged male, you know, uh, but yet he still did the work.
Don't get me wrong. Uh, then I, I see that, that you have a lot of his similarities, but yet you bring an angle that I find is unique. So, um, let, let's go back to, to your first memories, you know, let's go back first. Speaking of community, what, what do identify as your community that you grew up there and you learn from, and that can be, I know that's multifaceted.
So feel free to talk about what do you think is community well, what community brought you up?
[00:04:02] Folami: I, this is a really good question. Um, well automatically what resonates with me, I think that's because of, um, our father is, you know, the African Nova Scotian Community that's the indigenous historic community.
Um, and so. That has definitely shaped a lot of who I am. And if we think about the name, Folami me, um, it's actually, my middle name is, you know, my first name was Shaylin and as a child, um, that name wasn't one that I wanted to carry because it, uh, it sounded different. It, people used to make fun of it. And so it actually means respect and autonomy.
So there's that part of me. Um, that's really connected to community that way, but then there's also my mother who is from Tantallon, St. Margaret's Bay, who's very, um, rich in their history in terms of the Acadian history. Um, and so, part of my life and upbringing that was in Tantallon and in Bedford, that definitely shaped who I am too.
And summers were spent in East Preston and we can't forget our, uh, you know, the, the community that we hail from, uh, the Marsh and Truro. So I would say it's in pockets.
[00:05:16] Augy: Yeah. I like, I liked that though, because there's a real realistic. Viewpoint that you're bringing was at its many communities make up who we are because when we talk about it takes a village, um, you know, for many people that village is various spots, right?
And so as you're transitioning from Tantallon to Bedford, Uh, I know we spoke a little bit earlier about what were your senses of community then from a positive and maybe a negative point of view, not negative, but things that were working for you, community wise, things that weren't working for you community wise or early on in your say pre-teen teen years.
[00:05:55] Folami: Yeah, well, Bedford was, um, actually the, the younger part. And so I would say, as I was thinking, um, as we were talking earlier, I remembered the block parent signs in the windows. And that was the sign that used to be put up to say, this is a safe space where you can go, if you ever feel threatened, or if you fall down and hurt your knee, you know, there was, there was no worry you taught your children go, you know, you can knock on these doors.
And now when I think about my own children that never even existed. So in Bedford, um, you know, there was block parents, there were places that I felt, you know, this is, this is okay. The flip side to that is, um, you know, I lived on a small street on Birch street in Bedford, and I was the only black student in the school.
Um, Yolande Grant, who, who a family friend and a Sister to me. And she was the other, yeah, we were the only two. And so there were many times that that sense of community, um, meant. Who was going to protect you, who was going to laugh with you, um, who was going to let you skip with you? And there was clear definitions of what driveways you could play on and what ones you couldn't.
And so I'd say for me, when I was younger, community really was shaped by the welcomeness of me as a young black child. I would say that in Bedford, And then you fast forward to kind of Tantallon which mapped on and had a lot of similar experiences. Um, but now I'm a teenager, right? And I'm a rebel in my own way.
And, um, Hammonds Plains and Pockwock's there. And so now I'm spending my summers and East Preston. And so this, this identity of what. Our father was bringing into me in terms of being proud to be a young black girl. I could now flourish a bit more. It still wasn't too, too, too safe, you know? Um, because again, there was very few black students, black students at that school, but in where I lived, there was none.
I mean, we lived in the middle of the country, you know, we had a marina and a bunch of fields, so, you know, I would say, yeah, As we came to town and, um, you know, now there's more diversity as much as we have in Nova Scotia. And of course our extended families and, um, our aunts and uncles. So my community definitely I was thinking about it was whoever was the extension of who my family was.
That that's how it happened. Yeah.
[00:08:24] Augy: Well, yeah, and I like it. You're bringing something here too around comfort zone, right? Like, um, community is not a linear thing and it's not like you can define it. It's who you're comfortable with. And likely you said, like you knew which driveways, you could be in which driveways you couldn't be in.
Um, as you start to. Uh, I know that you went to Halifax West high school. And so as that started to, as you blossom, you started being in the city. What were the, some of the things that were new kind of experiences for you? Community-wise like, cause I know some of your history, but there were things that you were attracted to, that you didn't have in Bedford.
You didn't have in Tantallon. Um, and, and these things I thought started to shape who you are now, can you speak to, let's say you're, you're, you're a young adult. And so, um, obviously the African Nova Scotian community was a big piece of it. What would be some of the other things that you thought were starting to, I guess, broaden your community, your sense of community.
[00:09:28] Folami: Well, if you remember Augy in that, I think my, my year, a year afterwards was one of the last few CAYG you know, the cultural awareness youth group was huge. And, um, you know, David Woods would have been your time. Ann Marie his um, his sister was mine, but I became the president of CAYG. Uh, so it was really involved in that I had an opportunity.
That organization to travel to go to Philadelphia, went to Temple University, which was the first black university. I've never been that again since, um, so being involved in school curriculum activities, the debate team. Um, but I also would say my spirituality shifted, uh, I started to connect because, uh, Halifax West.
Well, actually Clayton Park and Fairview area is the most diverse, uh, community or, uh, you know, hub, if you would, uh, east of Montreal. So I was able to variance, um, you know, other people from all over and I started to study Islam and, uh, you know, definitely dabbled in thought and, and, um, took some time in that space, which was really influential.
And, um, I'm thankful for those moments. So. That was a big shift for me. And then, um, connecting with other young girls who were interested in being a little bit more politicized, um, you know, thinking maybe a bit more around, what does it mean to be a woman? Uh, what does it mean to be a young woman? You know, and I had a child, um, when I was young, I started my family young.
I know lots of different shaping in that way. And so my community grew from this small little Bedford of protective, you know, boundaries to this broadened idea of, oh, you're from a whole different country. You're on the other side of the world. You speak different languages. You pray differently to other mothers who, you know, now there's this culture of women who are breastfeeding and birthing.
And, um, and that started early before I even went to Toronto. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:32] Augy: Yeah. That's and, and, you know, I taught in Halifax West and I really remember that that was a school and this was on Dutch Village Road for those people that know, um, Halifax. And now it's been rebuilt the school, but that school had prayer rooms.
And it's, it's interesting because your, your global perspective and mine as well started to grow at Halifax West in this diversity, because you had Fairview, you had Clayton Park, you had the 'Pubs'. You know, all of these areas were feeding into this school that had this real diversity. Um, but then, then you, you hit on something too around, um, you know, womanhood, right.
And this is what I wanted to get into because as you transitioned from, you know, graduating and finishing up high school, You're starting to be drawn towards Toronto. And so speak about, um, you know, what was it like before we even get into what you started to study? Like moving from the Halifax community into this metropolis?
I
[00:12:40] Folami: literally, to this day, I think I struggled with subways. I remember I got to Toronto, um, number one, it smelled to me, it still smells strong. Smell of the garbage and things like that. But anyway, yeah, the subway, I mean, this train that traveled under the ground and people would just stand so close to it.
I remember literally standing against the wall, thinking this is the most scariest, horrifying thing in the world can you imagine. Uh, yeah, I mean, and then, but there's so there was that the fast pace. But then there was this richness of just everywhere you turned, there was a different nationality. There was different foods.
There were people that were, you know, in their sixties that have been there for 30, 40 years and didn't speak English proudly, you know, it's swallowed me in a good way. Yeah.
[00:13:34] Augy: And so then you start to think about. Uh, career or profession and, and, and, you know, midwifery, which I thought was, were so kind of cool.
You know, I didn't know a whole lot about Moda. Um, can you talk about how you got interested in that the school you went to your experiences? Um, yeah. Talking with, because there's a community in that, right. And supporting women through childbirth after pre during and post. And so talk a little bit about.
[00:14:04] Folami: Yeah, it's funny. When you say, you know, how did you get into that? Cause I asked myself that question about the next career later, but, um, I actually attended a birth, uh, of a friend here in Nova Scotia when I was 15. Who she, she was older, but I was there as a support person. So ever since I saw that birth, I was hungry for it.
I knew that I wanted to support women. I was intrigued by the birth process. So in moving to Toronto. I went to do nursing first. So I did nursing first. Um, and the hopes was so that I could get into the midwifery program. So the midwifery program is very competitive. You know, they take 40 applicants a year.
There's thousands of people that apply. Uh, I didn't even think I was going to get in. And it is also again yet another profession where we don't see racialized people as often, at least in the, um, in the institution itself here. But as we know, midwifery is the oldest practice and one of the oldest practicing professions, women have been birthing from the time we came here to.
Great. Um, and, uh, so. It was interesting to see how, um, I hate to call it industrialized, but it feels much like that how birth became that. So midwifery, uh, tries to safeguard that, but if you put it into an academic setting, it changes. Right. And so I ended up at Ryerson University and, and, um, yeah, I met a whole new group of women and midwifery is adjustable birthing.
It's also about like this feminist thought this, this reshaping the way that we think, the way that we think about our bodies, the way that we understand women's bodies and how we connect with the childbirth experience, or the lack of right. Uh, so yeah, that was another sense of community. And I still stay very close to, uh, my colleagues.
there, yeah.
[00:16:06] Augy: Yeah. And you bring out something that there's a, I wouldn't say there's a viewpoint into the politicizing of, of owning the body and women being. There's so many ways that women are fractured and fragmented around their body and the birth process. And so I, I never thought about it being, not just about the birthing of children, but of empowering women.
Um, you know, to be, um, themselves and, and to appreciate, I think often think like there's a godlike quality to anyone that can, can bring life onto the planet, you know? And so when you think about women, the power that they have, you know, let's be honest, it's, it's been through patriarchy that we've made women feel like your job is to just, you know, work for men and have babies for men.
But yet that goes against the godlike divinity of having the power to make life. Right. And so is that, was there a connection of even a spiritual connection?
[00:17:08] Folami: Uh, yeah, I mean, I was just thinking, I was just saying that, I mean, um, there was many times when I would, um, birth a baby or I was birthing a baby. I was catching a baby and thinking about my hands are the first touch, this, this life and how important it is that I, um, that me, myself am in a good state of mind because you're ushering, you know, a baby into this world.
And, um, yeah, it's a very. Uh, I, I believe it's a very spiritual, um, Opportunity to it's a gift to be able to do something like that to, to, um, share in that, in that process. Um, it's not for everyone for sure, but yeah, and I think there's something that you're also giving to this woman and her family, if she has family or however she sees herself in that circle is the autonomy, you know, you're giving women the right to make choice.
Where and how she births. Um, and it's a political statement too, so yeah, I mean, we could talk there forever. You should do a whole podcast on that.
[00:18:11] Augy: We'll circle back. We'll circle back on that link. Another, um, community. You know, when you were, I was teaching in St. Lucia and, and, um, Rocky and Sharon and you came to visit and I was living in heavy woods, like deep in St.
Lucia. And, and, and there was a kind of an introduction for you to Rastafarianism. And so when you went to Toronto and I know you had long, we'll put a picture up about how long your dreadlocks were, um, you know, can you talk a little bit about what, what Rastafarianism. Um, meant to you and that community. So we're talking about Nyabinghi, which is Rastafarian church.
I know that you were involved in Nyabinghi, too. So, so, so what, what was, what was that community like?
[00:19:04] Folami: Yeah. So it's like this mapping of experiences all at the same time. Um, you're right. I, you actually, and I always, uh, applaud you in terms of that seed that you gave me. Cause that's, um, so coming into Rastafari through your connection and through traveling, um, also really shaped who I am.
And so I think that, yeah. The faith itself, but the community in particularly, um, allowed myself, um, and my partner at the time, um, Firm, to raise our children again, this autonomy, it's a very interesting that that seems to be a common thing that comes up express, um, and to, to live a life that, um, reflected our religious, political, spiritual beliefs.
And it, um, We identified with that. So, um, it, it wasn't actually started, I forgot. I started a homeschooling co-op
homeschool that we started a co-op because we were like, who other, what other community members are like us and who else wants to raise your children with a certain type of curriculum? Well, I do, I do. I said, okay, well, how about this? Cause I can't, I, you know, I can't do it every day, but let's do a co-op and in that way, um, You know, you do Monday.
I do Tuesday, as long as we, um, have some agreement on the, um, you know, the types of things that we believe in and teach them, we can teach our children. And so we did that. We ran a collective co-op of a homeschooling, uh, of a few families together. And we did that for a year and change. And that was also really amazing.
So the community gave me strength. I mean, what's so beautiful about Rastafari is that. Um, and even if we think about reggae, we think about that political voice, you know, um, even just to resist the system, to have, uh, a counter story to what is the normative. Yeah.
[00:21:08] Augy: Yeah. And you're you, you, yeah, I love
these podcasts discussions, because there's growth in it. Right. And there's even like a Reasoning. That's a word from Rastafarianism is Reasoning, we're Reasoning, and the Reasoning seems to bubble up autonomy. We're going to come back to that. Right? Like, um, how do you feel accepted and valued in atonomous powerful in your space?
And that, that that's part of, that's a big part of the way we grew up. And, and wanting to, to, to feel comfortable wherever we went. And that's one of the things that our dad really talked to us about is, is that, um, so as you talk about you're, you're in Toronto, you're, you're in the big city, there's a calling for you to return to Nova Scotia.
Um, you do come back. Um, how do you, so from the subway story, which is one and going to Toronto, what was it like returning back to Nova Scotia. Yeah. And then did you, did you rethink the community here?
[00:22:16] Folami: Yeah, and it was over a decade and some later. And so, um, for sure, I had grown, you know, my thoughts had grown, my family had grown and, um, I was excited cause I was here, as you said, I was here for family and my family's health.
And so it was really nice to be home and to support. Um, I didn't have the homeschooling, um, community that I had had in Toronto and, um, Things things change, but that's okay. So the children went to public school here and it's interesting, uh, because it was the first time. And again, I'm just coming back to, in terms of the, the idea of community, but where some of those struggles are.
Um, and so it was the first time that children were ever called *expletive* and I remember them coming home and, um, you know, a parent had. Yelling at them or whatever. And they came home and volunteers and things that they didn't see before because they didn't have the same contrast in terms of community. Um, and so that was a big kind of shift.
And so the, and then even, I think some of our community members to it a little bit, um, can be at times small minded. And so this broader sense of. Of who we are and expanding the way that we think and how we socialize. Um, Nova Scotian sometimes, and even specifically in our community, um, too, can be, you know, they're funnel visioned.
And so that took a bit and, uh, anyway, I went on to do my masters, um, which I didn't get to finish the thesis, but I did get to study in a cohort at the Mount and, um, and then ended up.
[00:24:00] Augy: Yeah. And that was an Afrocentric Masters
[00:24:02] Folami: and Masters in Education. Yeah. Yeah. That's just like how many things have we done and then worked at ISANS, as you said, uh, immigration settlement, resettlement agency at the time and, and ADAM, which was the African Diaspora Association in the Maritimes and oh, anyway, all over and then Kwacha House.
Kwacha House. So I was working at ISANS. Happy. I mean, I loved my job and I was working in community. Um, working with, um, my particular role was working with, um, uh, refugees, government assisted refugees. But somehow, because I just happened to be one of those people that move, uh, where were the wind takes her.
And so I'm on my way to Fairview to visit somebody. Little green house at the bottom of Central and Dutch Village. It had a for rent sign in it. So I just parked in front of that little house. And I looked at, I said, I want to start a cafe. And I came home and told my mum was like, you're crazy. There's no way.
I said, oh yeah, I'm going to. And, uh, and so I left my job, put all my buttons, which was not very many. And, um, and this is where it's beautiful in terms of community and decided I'm opening up the restaurant, this cafe, that's going to be, you know, a space where, uh, you know, people from all over can come and talk and you can have these political discussions.
It's going to be a safe space and we're going to really broaden the general conversation is how we engage with the ideas of race and how we talk about gender. And so here, births Kwacha House. And let me tell you Augy there were days that I sat in that cafe. I tell you no word of a lie and random people would come through.
With gifts for the Cafe, not for me, for the cafe and things like statues. And mirrors, I mean, I was starting to lose space and where it was going to put all these things because they had a sense of community, they owned the cafe. Um, but it was to the point where this is interesting, but people felt so connected to it that it became more like a community center.
Um, but it was for profit. And so that's where we struggled. You know, we struggled deeply. I mean, we had repasts of people's funerals there. I remember we had anniversaries of weddings there. Um, birthday parties, dominos tournaments. I mean, you name it drumming sessions. Uh, goodness. Uh, we've had so many things there, but it didn't make any money because it was all .
So.
[00:26:43] Augy: As your brother during that time, you know, I was supportive. I actually loved, I was working in Antigonish at the time and I would love to drive in and come to the cafe. And I'd say, I'd always go, 'Listen, you've got some eclectic people here. Like there was, it was a space, but it was a beautiful space, but it really represented diversity.
Like the people in there were diverse as far as their abilities, as far as. Um, race and gender and all of that sexuality, everything was there. And the interesting part that I do want to let the part that the audience know is that Kwatcha House was, um, the name of a organization and space that our dad had created.
If you Google Kwatcha House. There's a National Film Board clip of my dad, you know, and it was an organizational political space for people to talk. So even though you wanted to sell coffee and food and you had good food, like they were nice, you know, it was like, um, uh, mango cheesecake, and it had a Caribbean, African feel.
But people were so community oriented at the cafe that they wouldn't spend their money. Like it was super beautiful. And then when you had to pay your bills, you just like, so it's interesting that it didn't.
Well, because it still became Kwatcha House. And so you couldn't make it Starbucks. There had to be the Starbucks piece to it that that didn't flip, but it definitely was Kwatcha House. It was definitely a space where people who look interesting, who wouldn't feel comfortable in certain coffee shops felt comfortable in your coffee shop.
[00:28:29] Folami: And you know, like the NDP had their AGM there, there were times where even, its funny. Even if there were some white folks that came in and sat in spaces and said, you know, what is so beautiful Folami about this is we wouldn't normally have engaged, um, perhaps with the community on this level, but because of the way that the tables were set up and the types of people that would come, if things, ideas, conversations were within earshot,
so there was almost like this language, this conversation that was happening across tables, uh, but not necessarily directly. And
[00:29:07] Augy: it was this collective conversation. It was group conversation. Wasn't it. If you were at a table, you couldn't, which happens at some of the coffee shops, it's, it's two people in their own thing was this waves of conversation.
That, and even if you turn from your table and went, Hey, that's interesting. No one told you or gave you that look like mind your business. You were joining the conversation.
So, and we keep circling back to, you know, you know, our dad is really important to us, a lot of levels, but. I remember you, you gave me this idea and you go, I'll get thinking I'm going to apply for law school. So to give a little context to that, um, you know, Rocky Jones was a big part of creating, uh, an indigenous and black space and at the law school and he actually was
the first valedictorian at 50 years old, he was valedictorian of the law class and went on to, to do Supreme Court stuff and things like that. So his picture is up at the DAL Law library. And after the cafes kind of disintegrating a bit, you say to me, I think I'm going to go to law school. So midwifery, ISANS, coffee shop, now in law.
And a congratulations to you because you recently, you know, I watched its COVID, I've watched your graduation online, but I can proudly say that you've now graduated from law school. So let's talk about the beginning and the middle of the end of that from a community perspective. So going into law school, in the IB and M program, talk about that going through it, and then how you feel at this point, having achieved a law degree.
[00:30:51] Folami: I think I'd love to start with the IB and M. Because one of the things that I left with is what I started with, which is the sense of family and community the Indigenous, Black and Mi'kmaq Initiative, um, is of its own type of initiative. There is nothing else like it in the world. Um, it is intentional about trying to diversify, um, specifically.
Uh, historic African Nova Scotians, um, and, uh, um, you know, First Nations People, uh, from the Maritimes into Dal. So that's how the program started because there wasn't enough, um, all of us in the program and in the justice system. And so, uh, as of just a few years ago, we had our 200th graduate student from the IB and M initiative.
And, uh, it's changed the face of justice. And, uh, for that, I am so proud to be a part of, uh, the initiative. And so from that, you know, there's your sense of community. There's your sense of family, but I would say that, yeah, going to law school, I mean, it's definitely, dad was a huge influence. Of course, you know, you see it here.
Dad, sit there and burn midnight oil over a case. I've seen him in burn midnight oil, getting ready for a protest. I started seeing him burn midnight oil playing poker. So
burning midnight oil, many a nights as you know, on many things. Justice was always as, as we started the conversation. And as you said, it was a part of who we were in, in any form or fashion. I mean, I did toy drives with them. I mean, I had to give up all my toys to give to the community. I mean, sitting at the employment center and laid off anyway, I mean, many of our experiences with math on, and there were others too, who had those things that I just had the privilege to be able to get into, to, um, the IB and M program.
And, and for that, uh, has changed my life. But, um, the justice system has failed our communities deeply and it's, it's, uh, it's not unknown. And, uh, if I think about that, I, um, for example, even if I thought recently I was working on a community clinic and was doing a, you know, a case in the child welfare area.
And it was a young black mom. And then I looked over to the other students and the rest of my particular class in clinic was all white, except for one other, um, student. But anyhow, as I started to survey the students to say, Hm, how many other black clients are there in this particular area, which is in child welfare area and the student next to me, she goes, you know, Folami now that you think about it, all my four cases are black moms.
And so as the conversation went on, you start to see the intersections of race and gender and how that plays out in the justice system. It's not just by chance. Um, and so socio-
[00:34:03] Augy: economics too. Socio-economics.
[00:34:06] Folami: Yeah. Yeah. And so this is 2021. We're still looking at these. Are there any stats on these things?
No. So my hope is, um, you know, now I'm graduating, I'm with the amazing firm McInnes Cooper and, um, still got lots of work to do, and we're going to school, we've got lots of work to do, and they named that and they own that, which is great. And so they're trying to increase their own equity and diversity.
But, uh, you know, the justice system needs needs us, but they need us in the corporate world, too. This is not just to say for representation in terms of the over-criminalization of black and brown bodies. But also because we make business, we have businesses, we bring money, we bring money to the economy.
Um, and so all around, uh, things I think are going to change, um, and slowly but surely, but we just have to keep agitating as daddy would say, keep agitating. Yeah.
[00:35:02] Augy: Yeah. And this brings me to what a great reflection on I'm really proud of you, you know, as your, as your brother, um, in the, the things that you've taken risks, I think it's high risk, high reward.
Like you've done things that are just, people are personal, are you crazy? But then you make it work. So I really applaud you for that. So now let's, let's talk about future. I know I was listening to your graduation. Uh, when they did a profile on you and you said that there's a community piece to what you ultimately want to do.
Um, when you think about that, that utopian kind of best case scenario, law firm, talk a little about that. And that also speaks to again, being there for community. What, what, what is that, that vision that you have of your law firm?
[00:35:50] Folami: Oh, of my law firm. Yeah. I mean, it it's, it's kind of, I hate to say like a running joke, but it is, but it is true.
It should be actualized and I should actualize it at some point. And I hope to, I mean, look at me, I'm, I'm at a firm and many other people are at the, if you're in a, a larger firm in Nova Scotia, there are very few racialized people and very few, um, uh, black lawyers, wouldn't it be great to have a firm, um, that had a stronger sense of human rights and equity and diversity.
You know, we're seeing a niche firms pop up. Um, I don't want to necessarily be pigeonholed, but I, but I do want to shift, um, policy. And so I think there's many ways of how we can understand the way that the law works and how it can influence, um, good things to come about. And that is through corporate that's through business that's through policy that's through who in human rights, that's through all kinds of various, but a firm that had, um, a commitment,
and accountability. And that's seen in the membership of just not, not just the lawyers themselves, but also the community that they serve and the things. But when you say what next, I actually say Me. I am excited to hit pause for just a moment. People don't realize law school is. I mean, it's, it's when you go back older and in the context of today for me, and I'm a mom and I'm a mom of three, I'm taking a moment to pause and, um, gather parts of me back and, um, you know, uh, get ready to enter back into a workforce that doesn't look like me.
So I need a minute and I think that's where the allyship comes into place. I think that's where Empathize Others:. Um, you know, I'm very thankful that my firm has an, um, you know, allow me to have a little bit of space to put myself back together with all this, this work to do. And that has been done. Uh, and just breathe and take it in for a minute.
So that, that's what I'm up to next is the me-time. Yep.
[00:38:05] Augy: I love that. I love that you, that you brought that up as a concluding thought because as we do this podcast and we speak to people who are giving energy to community, right. Not everybody does that. Um, and then you can get on one bar, you can get on a half a bar, right.
And so if you don't have that self care piece, Then you don't get the four bars, and there's no way you can serve other people if you're down and out. And, and, and oftentimes when we're in one bar, there's also this thing around being really irritable. Like you're, you know, you don't have the capacity to deal with some of the microaggressions or roadblocks or things that come up in your way when you're agitating for change.
And so I love that you bring that up as a closing thought around, you know what Augy, yeah. My thing is a lot jumping into this vision of a law school or law, a law firm, et cetera. I need to recharge my batteries. So then in this next phase, I'm energized enough to do the work that I, that I'd want to do.
And I think that's a really beautiful thought Folami. When we think about the concept of Empathize Others: you can't Empathize Others: if you don't take care of yourself. So I really appreciate that, that piece. Yeah. So, so I, I wanna, I wanna thank you, but what a great, you know, um, conversation and, and, uh, I, my idea for having this podcast was to celebrate and promote and highlight people like yourself and, and get to.
The the other side of why you do it, why do you get out of it? And hopefully to motivate our listeners, the audience, to think about giving, right? Cause you give a lot, you give I'm amazed at the amount of people that come in and out of your heart. Like I can net, I'll tell you I'm more introverted than that.
But as my sister, like there's so many people, Hey, just going in and out and help because you have that real sense of community. I applaud you for that because yes, it's part of your DNA, but it's also a real giving of yourself and I love you for that. And, um, and uh, I'm really looking forward to see what you do once you get on your four bars.
So, thank you very much.
[00:40:20] Folami: You. Thank you. Agassou Jones, it's been a pleasure.
Empathize Others: The Podcast ©2021 Strongcoffee Media Group - Horizon Line Films Ltd.
That includes working with immigrant women that includes running her own cafe. That includes, um, having a midwifery degree and delivering over a hundred babies. And then now she just graduated with her law degree, super talented, super special, Folami Jones.
So welcome everyone to another episode of Empathize Others: The Podcast. And today I've got someone real special to me, uh, someone that I'm connected to, but yet, you know, this is a community person, uh, um, Forget the suspense, my sister, my younger sister Folami, and so happy to have her here. And, and rightly so, when I thought about this podcast, podcast, and I think about people that are passionate about community.
Listen, that's my sister. And we're going to go through, um, her connections to community, why it's so important to her, but there's so many levels in, as I saw my sister grow up as her being. Passionate and connected and actually needing community community was so important to her. So, um, what a perfect guest for us to have today, uh, in order to give her a chance to, to reflect and celebrate, uh, the, that kind of lifeblood that she has.
And, and, you know, we have the same dad and we've got the same kind of upbringing, but I mean, she comes at it, from a, a strong woman point of view. She comes at it from a global international point of view, which I always appreciated. So we want to welcome to the podcast today, my younger sister, uh, Folami Jones.
[00:02:39] Folami: Hello, and thank you. And if the apple don't fall far from the tree,
what can we say?
[00:02:49] Augy: Yeah. So, so Folami, I w I'm so happy to have you here because when I think about. Especially when I think about, you know, the sisterhood community, I really learned a lot from you, uh, around what that support looks like. And, and, and from almost like a matriarchal point of view versus a patriarchal point of view.
And I would say right from the beginning that, you know, our father is Rocky Jones and he was a civil rights lawyer and, and did a lot of things, but he did them and not to take away from it. Patriarchal kind of, point of view. It was an OG he was a guy, there were things that he did that came out of him being a privileged male, you know, uh, but yet he still did the work.
Don't get me wrong. Uh, then I, I see that, that you have a lot of his similarities, but yet you bring an angle that I find is unique. So, um, let, let's go back to, to your first memories, you know, let's go back first. Speaking of community, what, what do identify as your community that you grew up there and you learn from, and that can be, I know that's multifaceted.
So feel free to talk about what do you think is community well, what community brought you up?
[00:04:02] Folami: I, this is a really good question. Um, well automatically what resonates with me, I think that's because of, um, our father is, you know, the African Nova Scotian Community that's the indigenous historic community.
Um, and so. That has definitely shaped a lot of who I am. And if we think about the name, Folami me, um, it's actually, my middle name is, you know, my first name was Shaylin and as a child, um, that name wasn't one that I wanted to carry because it, uh, it sounded different. It, people used to make fun of it. And so it actually means respect and autonomy.
So there's that part of me. Um, that's really connected to community that way, but then there's also my mother who is from Tantallon, St. Margaret's Bay, who's very, um, rich in their history in terms of the Acadian history. Um, and so, part of my life and upbringing that was in Tantallon and in Bedford, that definitely shaped who I am too.
And summers were spent in East Preston and we can't forget our, uh, you know, the, the community that we hail from, uh, the Marsh and Truro. So I would say it's in pockets.
[00:05:16] Augy: Yeah. I like, I liked that though, because there's a real realistic. Viewpoint that you're bringing was at its many communities make up who we are because when we talk about it takes a village, um, you know, for many people that village is various spots, right?
And so as you're transitioning from Tantallon to Bedford, Uh, I know we spoke a little bit earlier about what were your senses of community then from a positive and maybe a negative point of view, not negative, but things that were working for you, community wise, things that weren't working for you community wise or early on in your say pre-teen teen years.
[00:05:55] Folami: Yeah, well, Bedford was, um, actually the, the younger part. And so I would say, as I was thinking, um, as we were talking earlier, I remembered the block parent signs in the windows. And that was the sign that used to be put up to say, this is a safe space where you can go, if you ever feel threatened, or if you fall down and hurt your knee, you know, there was, there was no worry you taught your children go, you know, you can knock on these doors.
And now when I think about my own children that never even existed. So in Bedford, um, you know, there was block parents, there were places that I felt, you know, this is, this is okay. The flip side to that is, um, you know, I lived on a small street on Birch street in Bedford, and I was the only black student in the school.
Um, Yolande Grant, who, who a family friend and a Sister to me. And she was the other, yeah, we were the only two. And so there were many times that that sense of community, um, meant. Who was going to protect you, who was going to laugh with you, um, who was going to let you skip with you? And there was clear definitions of what driveways you could play on and what ones you couldn't.
And so I'd say for me, when I was younger, community really was shaped by the welcomeness of me as a young black child. I would say that in Bedford, And then you fast forward to kind of Tantallon which mapped on and had a lot of similar experiences. Um, but now I'm a teenager, right? And I'm a rebel in my own way.
And, um, Hammonds Plains and Pockwock's there. And so now I'm spending my summers and East Preston. And so this, this identity of what. Our father was bringing into me in terms of being proud to be a young black girl. I could now flourish a bit more. It still wasn't too, too, too safe, you know? Um, because again, there was very few black students, black students at that school, but in where I lived, there was none.
I mean, we lived in the middle of the country, you know, we had a marina and a bunch of fields, so, you know, I would say, yeah, As we came to town and, um, you know, now there's more diversity as much as we have in Nova Scotia. And of course our extended families and, um, our aunts and uncles. So my community definitely I was thinking about it was whoever was the extension of who my family was.
That that's how it happened. Yeah.
[00:08:24] Augy: Well, yeah, and I like it. You're bringing something here too around comfort zone, right? Like, um, community is not a linear thing and it's not like you can define it. It's who you're comfortable with. And likely you said, like you knew which driveways, you could be in which driveways you couldn't be in.
Um, as you start to. Uh, I know that you went to Halifax West high school. And so as that started to, as you blossom, you started being in the city. What were the, some of the things that were new kind of experiences for you? Community-wise like, cause I know some of your history, but there were things that you were attracted to, that you didn't have in Bedford.
You didn't have in Tantallon. Um, and, and these things I thought started to shape who you are now, can you speak to, let's say you're, you're, you're a young adult. And so, um, obviously the African Nova Scotian community was a big piece of it. What would be some of the other things that you thought were starting to, I guess, broaden your community, your sense of community.
[00:09:28] Folami: Well, if you remember Augy in that, I think my, my year, a year afterwards was one of the last few CAYG you know, the cultural awareness youth group was huge. And, um, you know, David Woods would have been your time. Ann Marie his um, his sister was mine, but I became the president of CAYG. Uh, so it was really involved in that I had an opportunity.
That organization to travel to go to Philadelphia, went to Temple University, which was the first black university. I've never been that again since, um, so being involved in school curriculum activities, the debate team. Um, but I also would say my spirituality shifted, uh, I started to connect because, uh, Halifax West.
Well, actually Clayton Park and Fairview area is the most diverse, uh, community or, uh, you know, hub, if you would, uh, east of Montreal. So I was able to variance, um, you know, other people from all over and I started to study Islam and, uh, you know, definitely dabbled in thought and, and, um, took some time in that space, which was really influential.
And, um, I'm thankful for those moments. So. That was a big shift for me. And then, um, connecting with other young girls who were interested in being a little bit more politicized, um, you know, thinking maybe a bit more around, what does it mean to be a woman? Uh, what does it mean to be a young woman? You know, and I had a child, um, when I was young, I started my family young.
I know lots of different shaping in that way. And so my community grew from this small little Bedford of protective, you know, boundaries to this broadened idea of, oh, you're from a whole different country. You're on the other side of the world. You speak different languages. You pray differently to other mothers who, you know, now there's this culture of women who are breastfeeding and birthing.
And, um, and that started early before I even went to Toronto. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:32] Augy: Yeah. That's and, and, you know, I taught in Halifax West and I really remember that that was a school and this was on Dutch Village Road for those people that know, um, Halifax. And now it's been rebuilt the school, but that school had prayer rooms.
And it's, it's interesting because your, your global perspective and mine as well started to grow at Halifax West in this diversity, because you had Fairview, you had Clayton Park, you had the 'Pubs'. You know, all of these areas were feeding into this school that had this real diversity. Um, but then, then you, you hit on something too around, um, you know, womanhood, right.
And this is what I wanted to get into because as you transitioned from, you know, graduating and finishing up high school, You're starting to be drawn towards Toronto. And so speak about, um, you know, what was it like before we even get into what you started to study? Like moving from the Halifax community into this metropolis?
I
[00:12:40] Folami: literally, to this day, I think I struggled with subways. I remember I got to Toronto, um, number one, it smelled to me, it still smells strong. Smell of the garbage and things like that. But anyway, yeah, the subway, I mean, this train that traveled under the ground and people would just stand so close to it.
I remember literally standing against the wall, thinking this is the most scariest, horrifying thing in the world can you imagine. Uh, yeah, I mean, and then, but there's so there was that the fast pace. But then there was this richness of just everywhere you turned, there was a different nationality. There was different foods.
There were people that were, you know, in their sixties that have been there for 30, 40 years and didn't speak English proudly, you know, it's swallowed me in a good way. Yeah.
[00:13:34] Augy: And so then you start to think about. Uh, career or profession and, and, and, you know, midwifery, which I thought was, were so kind of cool.
You know, I didn't know a whole lot about Moda. Um, can you talk about how you got interested in that the school you went to your experiences? Um, yeah. Talking with, because there's a community in that, right. And supporting women through childbirth after pre during and post. And so talk a little bit about.
[00:14:04] Folami: Yeah, it's funny. When you say, you know, how did you get into that? Cause I asked myself that question about the next career later, but, um, I actually attended a birth, uh, of a friend here in Nova Scotia when I was 15. Who she, she was older, but I was there as a support person. So ever since I saw that birth, I was hungry for it.
I knew that I wanted to support women. I was intrigued by the birth process. So in moving to Toronto. I went to do nursing first. So I did nursing first. Um, and the hopes was so that I could get into the midwifery program. So the midwifery program is very competitive. You know, they take 40 applicants a year.
There's thousands of people that apply. Uh, I didn't even think I was going to get in. And it is also again yet another profession where we don't see racialized people as often, at least in the, um, in the institution itself here. But as we know, midwifery is the oldest practice and one of the oldest practicing professions, women have been birthing from the time we came here to.
Great. Um, and, uh, so. It was interesting to see how, um, I hate to call it industrialized, but it feels much like that how birth became that. So midwifery, uh, tries to safeguard that, but if you put it into an academic setting, it changes. Right. And so I ended up at Ryerson University and, and, um, yeah, I met a whole new group of women and midwifery is adjustable birthing.
It's also about like this feminist thought this, this reshaping the way that we think, the way that we think about our bodies, the way that we understand women's bodies and how we connect with the childbirth experience, or the lack of right. Uh, so yeah, that was another sense of community. And I still stay very close to, uh, my colleagues.
there, yeah.
[00:16:06] Augy: Yeah. And you bring out something that there's a, I wouldn't say there's a viewpoint into the politicizing of, of owning the body and women being. There's so many ways that women are fractured and fragmented around their body and the birth process. And so I, I never thought about it being, not just about the birthing of children, but of empowering women.
Um, you know, to be, um, themselves and, and to appreciate, I think often think like there's a godlike quality to anyone that can, can bring life onto the planet, you know? And so when you think about women, the power that they have, you know, let's be honest, it's, it's been through patriarchy that we've made women feel like your job is to just, you know, work for men and have babies for men.
But yet that goes against the godlike divinity of having the power to make life. Right. And so is that, was there a connection of even a spiritual connection?
[00:17:08] Folami: Uh, yeah, I mean, I was just thinking, I was just saying that, I mean, um, there was many times when I would, um, birth a baby or I was birthing a baby. I was catching a baby and thinking about my hands are the first touch, this, this life and how important it is that I, um, that me, myself am in a good state of mind because you're ushering, you know, a baby into this world.
And, um, yeah, it's a very. Uh, I, I believe it's a very spiritual, um, Opportunity to it's a gift to be able to do something like that to, to, um, share in that, in that process. Um, it's not for everyone for sure, but yeah, and I think there's something that you're also giving to this woman and her family, if she has family or however she sees herself in that circle is the autonomy, you know, you're giving women the right to make choice.
Where and how she births. Um, and it's a political statement too, so yeah, I mean, we could talk there forever. You should do a whole podcast on that.
[00:18:11] Augy: We'll circle back. We'll circle back on that link. Another, um, community. You know, when you were, I was teaching in St. Lucia and, and, um, Rocky and Sharon and you came to visit and I was living in heavy woods, like deep in St.
Lucia. And, and, and there was a kind of an introduction for you to Rastafarianism. And so when you went to Toronto and I know you had long, we'll put a picture up about how long your dreadlocks were, um, you know, can you talk a little bit about what, what Rastafarianism. Um, meant to you and that community. So we're talking about Nyabinghi, which is Rastafarian church.
I know that you were involved in Nyabinghi, too. So, so, so what, what was, what was that community like?
[00:19:04] Folami: Yeah. So it's like this mapping of experiences all at the same time. Um, you're right. I, you actually, and I always, uh, applaud you in terms of that seed that you gave me. Cause that's, um, so coming into Rastafari through your connection and through traveling, um, also really shaped who I am.
And so I think that, yeah. The faith itself, but the community in particularly, um, allowed myself, um, and my partner at the time, um, Firm, to raise our children again, this autonomy, it's a very interesting that that seems to be a common thing that comes up express, um, and to, to live a life that, um, reflected our religious, political, spiritual beliefs.
And it, um, We identified with that. So, um, it, it wasn't actually started, I forgot. I started a homeschooling co-op
homeschool that we started a co-op because we were like, who other, what other community members are like us and who else wants to raise your children with a certain type of curriculum? Well, I do, I do. I said, okay, well, how about this? Cause I can't, I, you know, I can't do it every day, but let's do a co-op and in that way, um, You know, you do Monday.
I do Tuesday, as long as we, um, have some agreement on the, um, you know, the types of things that we believe in and teach them, we can teach our children. And so we did that. We ran a collective co-op of a homeschooling, uh, of a few families together. And we did that for a year and change. And that was also really amazing.
So the community gave me strength. I mean, what's so beautiful about Rastafari is that. Um, and even if we think about reggae, we think about that political voice, you know, um, even just to resist the system, to have, uh, a counter story to what is the normative. Yeah.
[00:21:08] Augy: Yeah. And you're you, you, yeah, I love
these podcasts discussions, because there's growth in it. Right. And there's even like a Reasoning. That's a word from Rastafarianism is Reasoning, we're Reasoning, and the Reasoning seems to bubble up autonomy. We're going to come back to that. Right? Like, um, how do you feel accepted and valued in atonomous powerful in your space?
And that, that that's part of, that's a big part of the way we grew up. And, and wanting to, to, to feel comfortable wherever we went. And that's one of the things that our dad really talked to us about is, is that, um, so as you talk about you're, you're in Toronto, you're, you're in the big city, there's a calling for you to return to Nova Scotia.
Um, you do come back. Um, how do you, so from the subway story, which is one and going to Toronto, what was it like returning back to Nova Scotia. Yeah. And then did you, did you rethink the community here?
[00:22:16] Folami: Yeah, and it was over a decade and some later. And so, um, for sure, I had grown, you know, my thoughts had grown, my family had grown and, um, I was excited cause I was here, as you said, I was here for family and my family's health.
And so it was really nice to be home and to support. Um, I didn't have the homeschooling, um, community that I had had in Toronto and, um, Things things change, but that's okay. So the children went to public school here and it's interesting, uh, because it was the first time. And again, I'm just coming back to, in terms of the, the idea of community, but where some of those struggles are.
Um, and so it was the first time that children were ever called *expletive* and I remember them coming home and, um, you know, a parent had. Yelling at them or whatever. And they came home and volunteers and things that they didn't see before because they didn't have the same contrast in terms of community. Um, and so that was a big kind of shift.
And so the, and then even, I think some of our community members to it a little bit, um, can be at times small minded. And so this broader sense of. Of who we are and expanding the way that we think and how we socialize. Um, Nova Scotian sometimes, and even specifically in our community, um, too, can be, you know, they're funnel visioned.
And so that took a bit and, uh, anyway, I went on to do my masters, um, which I didn't get to finish the thesis, but I did get to study in a cohort at the Mount and, um, and then ended up.
[00:24:00] Augy: Yeah. And that was an Afrocentric Masters
[00:24:02] Folami: and Masters in Education. Yeah. Yeah. That's just like how many things have we done and then worked at ISANS, as you said, uh, immigration settlement, resettlement agency at the time and, and ADAM, which was the African Diaspora Association in the Maritimes and oh, anyway, all over and then Kwacha House.
Kwacha House. So I was working at ISANS. Happy. I mean, I loved my job and I was working in community. Um, working with, um, my particular role was working with, um, uh, refugees, government assisted refugees. But somehow, because I just happened to be one of those people that move, uh, where were the wind takes her.
And so I'm on my way to Fairview to visit somebody. Little green house at the bottom of Central and Dutch Village. It had a for rent sign in it. So I just parked in front of that little house. And I looked at, I said, I want to start a cafe. And I came home and told my mum was like, you're crazy. There's no way.
I said, oh yeah, I'm going to. And, uh, and so I left my job, put all my buttons, which was not very many. And, um, and this is where it's beautiful in terms of community and decided I'm opening up the restaurant, this cafe, that's going to be, you know, a space where, uh, you know, people from all over can come and talk and you can have these political discussions.
It's going to be a safe space and we're going to really broaden the general conversation is how we engage with the ideas of race and how we talk about gender. And so here, births Kwacha House. And let me tell you Augy there were days that I sat in that cafe. I tell you no word of a lie and random people would come through.
With gifts for the Cafe, not for me, for the cafe and things like statues. And mirrors, I mean, I was starting to lose space and where it was going to put all these things because they had a sense of community, they owned the cafe. Um, but it was to the point where this is interesting, but people felt so connected to it that it became more like a community center.
Um, but it was for profit. And so that's where we struggled. You know, we struggled deeply. I mean, we had repasts of people's funerals there. I remember we had anniversaries of weddings there. Um, birthday parties, dominos tournaments. I mean, you name it drumming sessions. Uh, goodness. Uh, we've had so many things there, but it didn't make any money because it was all .
So.
[00:26:43] Augy: As your brother during that time, you know, I was supportive. I actually loved, I was working in Antigonish at the time and I would love to drive in and come to the cafe. And I'd say, I'd always go, 'Listen, you've got some eclectic people here. Like there was, it was a space, but it was a beautiful space, but it really represented diversity.
Like the people in there were diverse as far as their abilities, as far as. Um, race and gender and all of that sexuality, everything was there. And the interesting part that I do want to let the part that the audience know is that Kwatcha House was, um, the name of a organization and space that our dad had created.
If you Google Kwatcha House. There's a National Film Board clip of my dad, you know, and it was an organizational political space for people to talk. So even though you wanted to sell coffee and food and you had good food, like they were nice, you know, it was like, um, uh, mango cheesecake, and it had a Caribbean, African feel.
But people were so community oriented at the cafe that they wouldn't spend their money. Like it was super beautiful. And then when you had to pay your bills, you just like, so it's interesting that it didn't.
Well, because it still became Kwatcha House. And so you couldn't make it Starbucks. There had to be the Starbucks piece to it that that didn't flip, but it definitely was Kwatcha House. It was definitely a space where people who look interesting, who wouldn't feel comfortable in certain coffee shops felt comfortable in your coffee shop.
[00:28:29] Folami: And you know, like the NDP had their AGM there, there were times where even, its funny. Even if there were some white folks that came in and sat in spaces and said, you know, what is so beautiful Folami about this is we wouldn't normally have engaged, um, perhaps with the community on this level, but because of the way that the tables were set up and the types of people that would come, if things, ideas, conversations were within earshot,
so there was almost like this language, this conversation that was happening across tables, uh, but not necessarily directly. And
[00:29:07] Augy: it was this collective conversation. It was group conversation. Wasn't it. If you were at a table, you couldn't, which happens at some of the coffee shops, it's, it's two people in their own thing was this waves of conversation.
That, and even if you turn from your table and went, Hey, that's interesting. No one told you or gave you that look like mind your business. You were joining the conversation.
So, and we keep circling back to, you know, you know, our dad is really important to us, a lot of levels, but. I remember you, you gave me this idea and you go, I'll get thinking I'm going to apply for law school. So to give a little context to that, um, you know, Rocky Jones was a big part of creating, uh, an indigenous and black space and at the law school and he actually was
the first valedictorian at 50 years old, he was valedictorian of the law class and went on to, to do Supreme Court stuff and things like that. So his picture is up at the DAL Law library. And after the cafes kind of disintegrating a bit, you say to me, I think I'm going to go to law school. So midwifery, ISANS, coffee shop, now in law.
And a congratulations to you because you recently, you know, I watched its COVID, I've watched your graduation online, but I can proudly say that you've now graduated from law school. So let's talk about the beginning and the middle of the end of that from a community perspective. So going into law school, in the IB and M program, talk about that going through it, and then how you feel at this point, having achieved a law degree.
[00:30:51] Folami: I think I'd love to start with the IB and M. Because one of the things that I left with is what I started with, which is the sense of family and community the Indigenous, Black and Mi'kmaq Initiative, um, is of its own type of initiative. There is nothing else like it in the world. Um, it is intentional about trying to diversify, um, specifically.
Uh, historic African Nova Scotians, um, and, uh, um, you know, First Nations People, uh, from the Maritimes into Dal. So that's how the program started because there wasn't enough, um, all of us in the program and in the justice system. And so, uh, as of just a few years ago, we had our 200th graduate student from the IB and M initiative.
And, uh, it's changed the face of justice. And, uh, for that, I am so proud to be a part of, uh, the initiative. And so from that, you know, there's your sense of community. There's your sense of family, but I would say that, yeah, going to law school, I mean, it's definitely, dad was a huge influence. Of course, you know, you see it here.
Dad, sit there and burn midnight oil over a case. I've seen him in burn midnight oil, getting ready for a protest. I started seeing him burn midnight oil playing poker. So
burning midnight oil, many a nights as you know, on many things. Justice was always as, as we started the conversation. And as you said, it was a part of who we were in, in any form or fashion. I mean, I did toy drives with them. I mean, I had to give up all my toys to give to the community. I mean, sitting at the employment center and laid off anyway, I mean, many of our experiences with math on, and there were others too, who had those things that I just had the privilege to be able to get into, to, um, the IB and M program.
And, and for that, uh, has changed my life. But, um, the justice system has failed our communities deeply and it's, it's, uh, it's not unknown. And, uh, if I think about that, I, um, for example, even if I thought recently I was working on a community clinic and was doing a, you know, a case in the child welfare area.
And it was a young black mom. And then I looked over to the other students and the rest of my particular class in clinic was all white, except for one other, um, student. But anyhow, as I started to survey the students to say, Hm, how many other black clients are there in this particular area, which is in child welfare area and the student next to me, she goes, you know, Folami now that you think about it, all my four cases are black moms.
And so as the conversation went on, you start to see the intersections of race and gender and how that plays out in the justice system. It's not just by chance. Um, and so socio-
[00:34:03] Augy: economics too. Socio-economics.
[00:34:06] Folami: Yeah. Yeah. And so this is 2021. We're still looking at these. Are there any stats on these things?
No. So my hope is, um, you know, now I'm graduating, I'm with the amazing firm McInnes Cooper and, um, still got lots of work to do, and we're going to school, we've got lots of work to do, and they named that and they own that, which is great. And so they're trying to increase their own equity and diversity.
But, uh, you know, the justice system needs needs us, but they need us in the corporate world, too. This is not just to say for representation in terms of the over-criminalization of black and brown bodies. But also because we make business, we have businesses, we bring money, we bring money to the economy.
Um, and so all around, uh, things I think are going to change, um, and slowly but surely, but we just have to keep agitating as daddy would say, keep agitating. Yeah.
[00:35:02] Augy: Yeah. And this brings me to what a great reflection on I'm really proud of you, you know, as your, as your brother, um, in the, the things that you've taken risks, I think it's high risk, high reward.
Like you've done things that are just, people are personal, are you crazy? But then you make it work. So I really applaud you for that. So now let's, let's talk about future. I know I was listening to your graduation. Uh, when they did a profile on you and you said that there's a community piece to what you ultimately want to do.
Um, when you think about that, that utopian kind of best case scenario, law firm, talk a little about that. And that also speaks to again, being there for community. What, what, what is that, that vision that you have of your law firm?
[00:35:50] Folami: Oh, of my law firm. Yeah. I mean, it it's, it's kind of, I hate to say like a running joke, but it is, but it is true.
It should be actualized and I should actualize it at some point. And I hope to, I mean, look at me, I'm, I'm at a firm and many other people are at the, if you're in a, a larger firm in Nova Scotia, there are very few racialized people and very few, um, uh, black lawyers, wouldn't it be great to have a firm, um, that had a stronger sense of human rights and equity and diversity.
You know, we're seeing a niche firms pop up. Um, I don't want to necessarily be pigeonholed, but I, but I do want to shift, um, policy. And so I think there's many ways of how we can understand the way that the law works and how it can influence, um, good things to come about. And that is through corporate that's through business that's through policy that's through who in human rights, that's through all kinds of various, but a firm that had, um, a commitment,
and accountability. And that's seen in the membership of just not, not just the lawyers themselves, but also the community that they serve and the things. But when you say what next, I actually say Me. I am excited to hit pause for just a moment. People don't realize law school is. I mean, it's, it's when you go back older and in the context of today for me, and I'm a mom and I'm a mom of three, I'm taking a moment to pause and, um, gather parts of me back and, um, you know, uh, get ready to enter back into a workforce that doesn't look like me.
So I need a minute and I think that's where the allyship comes into place. I think that's where Empathize Others:. Um, you know, I'm very thankful that my firm has an, um, you know, allow me to have a little bit of space to put myself back together with all this, this work to do. And that has been done. Uh, and just breathe and take it in for a minute.
So that, that's what I'm up to next is the me-time. Yep.
[00:38:05] Augy: I love that. I love that you, that you brought that up as a concluding thought because as we do this podcast and we speak to people who are giving energy to community, right. Not everybody does that. Um, and then you can get on one bar, you can get on a half a bar, right.
And so if you don't have that self care piece, Then you don't get the four bars, and there's no way you can serve other people if you're down and out. And, and, and oftentimes when we're in one bar, there's also this thing around being really irritable. Like you're, you know, you don't have the capacity to deal with some of the microaggressions or roadblocks or things that come up in your way when you're agitating for change.
And so I love that you bring that up as a closing thought around, you know what Augy, yeah. My thing is a lot jumping into this vision of a law school or law, a law firm, et cetera. I need to recharge my batteries. So then in this next phase, I'm energized enough to do the work that I, that I'd want to do.
And I think that's a really beautiful thought Folami. When we think about the concept of Empathize Others: you can't Empathize Others: if you don't take care of yourself. So I really appreciate that, that piece. Yeah. So, so I, I wanna, I wanna thank you, but what a great, you know, um, conversation and, and, uh, I, my idea for having this podcast was to celebrate and promote and highlight people like yourself and, and get to.
The the other side of why you do it, why do you get out of it? And hopefully to motivate our listeners, the audience, to think about giving, right? Cause you give a lot, you give I'm amazed at the amount of people that come in and out of your heart. Like I can net, I'll tell you I'm more introverted than that.
But as my sister, like there's so many people, Hey, just going in and out and help because you have that real sense of community. I applaud you for that because yes, it's part of your DNA, but it's also a real giving of yourself and I love you for that. And, um, and uh, I'm really looking forward to see what you do once you get on your four bars.
So, thank you very much.
[00:40:20] Folami: You. Thank you. Agassou Jones, it's been a pleasure.
Empathize Others: The Podcast ©2021 Strongcoffee Media Group - Horizon Line Films Ltd.
