00:00:08
S1: Well, this is it. Steps are live and listen. Every Saturday at this time, we come to you with conversations about culture, about living faithfully, about the good news and more. And today, well, we're going to talk some about culture. We're going to talk some about generations and more. We're excited to have a guest that I've known for a few years. And Hannah Gronowski Barnett is a is the visionary founder and CEO of Generation Distinct. And and she has written she's in the most recent issue of Outreach Magazine, where I have the privilege of serving as general editor. And she works with organizations around the country to better reach and engage the next generation. We're excited about having her on. I'm Ed Stetzer. I'm going to be your host today. I'm the dean of the Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, and I am the dad of some Gen Zers. And so we're going to talk some about that as well and talk some about the generational challenges that maybe Maybe sometimes we we we have some bridges we have to bridge some of those generational gaps. So Hannah, thanks so much for joining us on the program today.
00:01:08
S2: I am so honored to be here. And you know that I deeply respect you. And so I'm I'm honored to be invited on. Thank you so much.
00:01:17
S1: Well, we're glad you're here. And we're we're glad to have this conversation. So so, you know, first, I mean, tell us a little bit about you, how you got into this work. You've got this, uh, you've got generation distinct. You do some consulting company, but tell us about you and how you decided that we needed to engage the next generation. Well, your generation differently.
00:01:34
S2: Sure. Well, it really started when I was a teenager myself. I remember looking around at my generation and starting to see for myself the statistics that I would imagine many of the listeners are somewhat familiar with. I had a lot of, I'll say, unfair advantages in my life. I was given a fantastic church to be a part of. I was raised in a family of people who taught me about Jesus, and by the time I was in my late teens, I had kind of come to this place in my life where I wanted to follow Jesus, and not just in a passive way, but in a really active way. And the more that I studied the stories of Jesus, the more that I started to see that it seemed that the closer people got to Jesus, the more they were invited into this life that was anything but safe. It was, in fact, most of the times risky and sacrificial. And he invited them to really give up their lives to make a lasting impact in the world and read the gospel to the ends of the earth. And that, as a teenager, intrigued me, right? It got me so excited. And I was curious when I noticed a lot of my friends and peers walking away from the church. So I started to ask them some questions of where are you going and why are you leaving? And the common narrative I heard over and over was that they wanted to go change the world, make an impact, fight for justice, do good work in the world. But for some reason, there is this disconnect between them believing that they they couldn't do that within the walls of the church, while at the same time what I had been taught, which is that the only reason we actually want to create change in the world is because we're made in the image of a redemptive, restorative God. And so this started to spark this question of what if the next generation's longing to make an impact could actually be brought to the person of Jesus? How would that change? And so it really developed into something that we now say about generation distinct, which is that we want to use conversations the next generation is already having around passion, purpose and justice to bring them bring them into conversations about Jesus, the gospel, and the Great Commission. Again, what started as a dream when I was 16 then continued to grow. And today. We're a global organization that that we do that. And the way that we do it in the next generation's language is we tell young adults, we're going to help you discover the wrong. You were born to make right with a strategy to set it in motion. And once they go through our experience where we help them identify their purpose. We help them connect that with the mission of Jesus in the world, the most important cause we could ever give our lives to. And then we watch these young adults get sent out. And we call them innovative missionaries, young adults who are going into every sphere of society, but bringing the gospel with them into really in those spaces of really fresh and innovative ways.
00:04:44
S1: So good, so good. And just so you know, to our listeners, though, we actually do hear the background noise and we're working on that. And but we're so glad to have this conversation with Hannah. Also to want to remind you that we are going to take your calls. Maybe you've got questions about the next generation understanding and engaging the next generation. 87754836758775483675. We're talking to Hannah Gronowski Barnett. Excuse me. And Hannah is again working in engaging in the next generation. I mean, I'm, I'm a Gen Xer. We're the generation that nobody cares about. Hannah. Because you go from the boomers. Everyone cared about. Millennials were cool Gen Z and then and then, you know, subsequent generations. But you know, so I'm the age of I mean, I know your mom, you know, I'm the age of your parents, and a lot of people who are listening are probably my age as well. And so we're looking at the next generation and we're like, is there is there hope here? I mean, it's are they dropping out of church? We see some recent data that actually shows that Gen Z are more spiritually interested. This is from the Barna state of the church data. And also young men are now coming to church. Gen Z, young men are coming to church. A higher level in Gen Z young women. Which which is both encouraging because a young man, but discouraging because a lot of women your age are dropping out of church at a higher percentage than any other group right now. So, I mean, what should we look at? The next generation Gen Z and beyond? We're just focused on Gen Z here for a minute. But what what should we look and say and think and feel? Is there hope here? Is there discouraging? Is it a mix or what?
00:06:17
S2: Sure. Well, first of all, I absolutely concur with you. I believe that there is so much hope when it comes to the next generation. And I think if we're not keeping our hope alive, we will move into despair. And over and over in Scripture it Jesus reminds us to actually have the hope and to carry that hope. And if we don't carry hope, we'll start to see the next generation as the problem instead of as a solution. This is something that I am so intrigued by with Jesus when we look at Jesus's strategy to start what is now known as the local church. We notice that he truly didn't go to the religious elite of his day. He didn't go to the, you know, the the wealthy. He didn't go to the influential. But when he was choosing his team of world changers who would go on to create the movement of the local church, he pursued a group of young people. And when he approached them, I think it's so helpful for us to look at his example of his strategy of how he engaged the next generation, how he invited them to follow him. And interestingly enough, in that moment he did not see them as the problems of society. He did not tell them to, uh, be quiet and just watch. He invited them into proximity with him. He discipled them. He challenged them when they needed to be. He corrected them when they needed to be. But he also empowered them. He sent them out to do this work. And oftentimes I look at the next generation. And although there might be differences between generations, to be sure, I see I see a lot of qualities in Gen Z and even in Gen Alpha coming after them that I also see in the early stages of the church, in the very disciples who started this movement, in these young teenagers and 20 somethings, this willing to sacrifice for something bigger than themselves, this, this longing to do something with their lives that matter. This, this grittiness, this resolve, this vision. And I actually believe that the next generation is not the greatest threat to the American church. I believe it can be the greatest invitation back to what the original church was always meant to look like.
00:08:44
S1: Yeah, and I hope that's true. I mean, I do want to. I see signs of hope. I was just I'm actually here in Hawaii. We're broadcasting today, and I just spoke to several hundred pastors yesterday. I'm launching I'm launching a tour. I got a sprinter van, and Don and I are driving around the country doing pastors and leader conferences. It's really I'm now living in a van down by the river. Well, we didn't take the van to Hawaii, to be honest, but, um, but it's it's been sort of fun, but I was just with several hundred pastors. We launched this tour. It's a biola.edu lead the way. If anyone wants to kind of join one of our tour stops. But anyway, we talked a lot about the next generation and a lot of Gen Zers were there. Not so many gen alphas, but a lot of Gen Zers were there and really talked about some of the distinction in difference. But there are I mean, there are similarities. There are differences. You know, we we can and let's talk about some of those as well. Like, for example, we know that digital natives is a thing. We know that diversity is a thing. I mean, just kind of unpack some of the differences that you teach companies and churches and denominations about some of the differences generationally.
00:09:45
S2: Sure, sure. I think it's really important whenever we're talking about the differences, I recognize as a 20 something myself that sometimes when I walk in a room or I'm sharing, I can I can acknowledge that there might be apprehension in the hearts or minds of the leaders I'm speaking to. And I want to acknowledge that and honor that, because there are some of the negative stereotypes of young people that, let's just be honest, are very well warranted. They've been earned. There are flaky nephews and commitment problems and disrespect and lack of work ethic. Those things are all true. And so I'm certainly not the person coming in here claiming that the next generation is the solution to all things, and that they've got everything figured out. And the next generation needs to learn how to adjust to them by any means. Um, however, I do find that it's helpful to understand, to be able to have some tools in our tool boxes, to be able to recognize the differences when they're popping up. So instead of creating division, they actually can create unity. As we were doing some of our research for the consulting company that we are launching as an arm of our nonprofit, is that we actually found that research is showing that 60% even let's just use the business world for a minute. 60% of workers are experiencing generational conflict, and 70% of older employees are dismissing the abilities of their younger counterparts. But interestingly enough, studies show that in 2025. So as of this year, Gen Z and millennials are now making up 75% of our workforces. So whether you're a pastor or a nonprofit leader, organizational leader, business leader, if you look in your organizations right now, chances are 75% might be made up of Millennials and Gen Z. So therefore, it's really helpful for us to understand some of the biggest differences. The other thing that I think is really helpful for us to understand generational differences, and this is not something that I've come up with, but I really respect the generational experts who identify the best way to differentiate generations is not so much by a year, but rather a moment in history. Right? So if we look at the moment that separated a lot of Gen Z and millennials, many people will say that that was nine over 11. If you can remember where you were on nine over 11, chances are you're a millennial. So for example, I'm the youngest millennial and I was in kindergarten when nine over 11 happened versus Gen Z, who that might not happen. They probably don't remember where they are at. My little brother or some of my young adults that I mentor, so they might not remember. And that's important, right? Because it's it's the reality is the reason that generations are different is not because there were different species, right. Or completely different humans, but rather because we're living in a world that is different, right? Gen Z did grow up in a post nine over 11 world. They did grow up in a world where they could have technology at the touch of a button, that could carry a computer around with them at all times. This has led to certainly some interesting differences, but I'll just share one that I think is really interesting. We see a big trend right now obviously towards individualism, and I think there are some really negative parts of that movement that we have to acknowledge as a church. But I think there's some really interesting parts of it as well, where millennials were often content with attaching themselves to an organization's purpose. Right. Think of Toms shoes as a great example with millennials. Millennials love being able to attach themselves to that cause a shift that we have seen in Gen Z, and this is a phrase that I often use to describe this is we know the quote of, you know, people won't care how much we know until they know how much we care. I would say for Gen Z, they won't care how much. Um, they won't care that much about our purpose until they know that we care about their purpose. And so what this can look like is an opportunity for us to not just invite every Gen Z to attach to our organizational vision or our purpose or our focus as a team, but really taking the time to understand each unique person's purpose and passions, whether it's something as diverse as they love cooking or they have this side business that they're really passionate about, or they're starting up a podcast on the weekend taking an interest in the unique things that they're building and then allowing them to talk about that, even in church or on our teams or in our workplaces, kind of can create this space where they know that they can bring their full self there. And again, a lot of these values are human nature, right? We want to feel known. We want to feel seen. But I do think it's interesting to see the difference between millennials and Gen Z. In that case.
00:14:41
S1: We are going to continue our conversation and your calls with Hannah Barnett in just a minute. You can call us at (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. Maybe you got questions about next generation gen Gen Z. Maybe you got gen alpha questions. Millennial questions. You can call us. Maybe you got questions about engaging your children and your grandchildren again (877) 548-3675. We're going to continue our conversation with your calls in just a moment. Hey. We're back. Its debts are alive. We're having a conversation about, I guess we'd call them young adults. I remember back when I was a young adult in the Stone ages, uh, and, and it was always interesting, Hannah, that that, like every generation seems to think that they're the next generation is is so remarkably different. And in some ways they are. But, you know, I don't know, at the end of the day that the boomers and the Gen Xers were that different. You know, we were, you know, the boomers, you know, and I'm an older boomer, you're a younger millennial. But, you know, basically I'm an older Gen Xer, I should say. And so we're pretty close to you're pretty close to being a Gen Z, and I'm pretty close to being a boomer, but it's it's, um, you know, we, you know, early on, Gen X was like the slacker generation, and that didn't really last. The tech boom came. ET cetera. ET cetera. And and then, you know, I do think, though, that some of the bigger differences have to be around the engagement of technology. I mean, we mentioned earlier the digital generation part and were that's such a driving part of of, you know, younger people's lives, though it is interesting to watch. For example, you know, my daughters don't respond much to texts and um, and I have to like, you know, remind them. And when I call them, it's like, why didn't you just text me? Because you don't respond to texts, you know? So, um, So so it but but there are I mean, I do think of the technology world as such a defining, uh, difference between Gen Gen X in my case and, you know, millennials and Gen Z and others. Is that is that just a is that a 58 year old man just just looking too much into it, or is that just such a big difference?
00:16:58
S2: Absolutely. I mean, I think it would be impossible to avoid acknowledging that difference, right? There's not something that comes into our world that impacts us on every level. That is not going to change how we see the world. And there are certainly some negative things. And I don't necessarily need to even highlight them. Right. It's almost that we we're just so aware of them. It's the comparison traps that we can create. It's the addictions that we have to our phones. It's the lack of connectivity and In true authentic relationship that it can breed. We definitely recognize all that. But on the flip side, I've also identified some positives, and I see this in a lot of ways that the gospel is going forth in really fresh and innovative ways that people can connect across the globe in ways that couldn't happen before. I would imagine Paul could have never dreamed that the gospel could be going over an airwave right now. When he was walking miles and miles just to deliver the news of the gospel. And even with that, in addition, I've also sensed and seen that this opportunity for technology, as we see it today, has created a sense of innovation in the next generation that I find really exciting. So, for example, at Generation Instinct, our organization, the majority of what we do takes place virtually. So we serve young adults all over the world. And the first step that they come into is a four month virtual cohort where we help them identify their purpose, connect that purpose with the mission of Jesus, and help them build a three year strategy to walk out that purpose. And all of that is happening through our app. All of that is happening through content that is being delivered through video or audio podcast style. All of that is happening through coaching zoom calls. That's all happening virtually. And we're seeing young adults in all these different continents coming together and strategizing of how they can each take the gospel back to their generations in fresh and innovative ways. And some of the innovative ways are so brilliant, and many of them use technology. And so, yes, there are so many downfalls, but I truly believe that if we're able to see the positive and coach young adults and how to steward it for good. Um, it can be an incredible, powerful moment for us to encourage young adults to utilize it, really for gospel impact.
00:19:48
S1: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we I think we see what that looks like as well when we look sometimes at the positive views of our next generation as well. Let me remind everybody that our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. We're talking to Hannah Barnette about understanding the next generation Gen Z and beyond. She works at Generation Distinct and really does consulting and coaching for different organizations as well. Again, our number, if you'd like to talk to her and to us is (877) 548-3675. Uh, Merle, if you could select if you could select Raj, we're going to go to Raj for our first call. Raj, you're you're live on the air. Go ahead with your question or your comment.
00:20:32
S3: Thank you. Um, I guess my question is how important is relatability in order to communicate to the next generation? I'll give an example. As a health care provider, I'm responsible for providing health information. But my challenge is how can I package that in a package that's easily digestible so that I can communicate and also get my point across? But I have to have empathy. I have to have relatability. And I guess is that how important is the relatability in the topic?
00:21:10
S1: It's a good question, Hannah. What do you think?
00:21:13
S2: What a fantastic question. And first, I just want to honor Raj. It sounds like you have the right heart posture in this. The fact that you just said those two words empathy and relatability. I just want to thank you for for caring enough about the next generation to want to lean in in those ways. And I would say there's a different way to look at relatability. I think we think we can either look at relatability as you have to be just like them, and that's the only way they'll listen to you. Or you can look at relatability as though you're willing to enter into their world. The first relatability I do not think is required. I don't think they want the people that they're looking up to to be just like them. That's why they're going to you for wisdom, right? So I think especially in the healthcare space, you certainly don't need to talk like them. You don't need to use their slangs. You don't need to dress like them. You don't even need to be cool. I heard recently, um, a leader that I really respect, uh, really be able to share that in this generation. Warm is the new cool, right? Being able to be warm. And that was our mutual friend, Cara Powell. And because of that, we do not need to be like them. Uh, but one of the principles we teach in our consulting company is this idea of relating through relevant language. Again, not speaking like them, but speaking to them in language they'll understand, which is what you touched on, Raj. And I would encourage you, one of the best ways to identify how they'll best receive that information is to ask them. This is something that we're seeing a lot of companies do, and we're encouraging churches, organizations, corporate companies and businesses to all do this. This is something that really large corporations are doing. They're they're creating something called a shadow board, where they create a board of young people. They might be employees, it might be people in the congregation, it might be interns. It might just be young people in your life. And when you're asking a question, is this content going to stick with the next generation? Are they going to understand this offering? Go to them. Ask them. Receive their feedback. And this is this is showing really high returns in fortune 500 companies. And we're also seeing a lot of value rise up in churches and organizations and nonprofits as well. So I would say you have the right heart there, Raj. I would encourage you identify a group of young adults, young people who can be your shadow board, present the information to them and ask them to speak back to you and hear the language that they're using. And that's how you can increase your relatability.
00:23:49
S1: Yeah. So good, so good. Okay. We're we're going to, uh, we got a little over a minute before the bottom of the hour. And so I want to before before we get to that, I want to just kind of squeeze in one comment for you for about a minute or so long. Um, when you look to the next generation, of course, now you're I mean, you're you're a younger millennial, Gen Zs younger than you. And then Gen Alpha beyond there. Are you seeing I mean, are millennial Z and Alpha. Are they are they tracking similarly or are they continue to be kind of such big changes between generations?
00:24:19
S2: Sure. Like any generation, again, if we're seeing generational differences as a historical shift, every generation will certainly be different. Right. There are Gen Zers years who are living in a different America, a different world than even the one that I grew up in. What they're saying right now, if you can imagine, I'm sure a lot of people would guess, uh, one of the the defining historical moments that will differentiate Gen Z from Gen Alpha is Covid. If you can remember where you were when the Covid pandemic started, then you probably are Gen Z versus Gen Alpha. And so just think Gen Alpha is is coming to age in a world where they can't even remember a world before the pandemic. And then 2025, we just had the first members of Gen Beta be born. And so I certainly think we'll see. Excuse me, differences. Um, but again, those differences are opportunities for us to learn from each other, which has great amounts of excitement for me.
00:25:15
S1: For sure, for sure. Ditto here. And I agree wholeheartedly. We're going to continue our conversation in just a minute with Hannah. And again she leads Generation Distinct. If you go to Ed Stetzer Live.com, you can find a link to Generation Distinct. Find out Find out more about what she does and how you can connect with her as well in her and her important work and her helpful work. And again, our phone number if you'd like to join the conversation talking about next generation younger generations. Our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. We're going to jump right back cause we've got some folks in line. We're going to jump right back to the calls. Again your chances to get online now. (877) 548-3675. Okay. We're back. Um, Ed Stetzer live is the program. And we're having we have today a conversation about young adults, next generation. Our guest is Hannah Barnett. And you can go to live.com through generation Distinct and the good work that she's doing there as well. Uh, we are also taking your calls. Again, we've got several lined up. We're going to jump in in just a second. Again, our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Let's go to Louise in Florida and let her jump in with her question. You're live on the air. Louise, go right ahead.
00:26:43
S4: Hi. Thank you. I have a question. Um, I'm really struggling right now because my faith is being used in my views as a weapon. Um. As a Christian, I've been taught that we lead with love. We. We feed the hope. We feed and we clothe and we care for each other and we love each other. And that's the the lesson that I've taught my daughter. So I'm wondering how we can combat all this negativity and using Christianity as a weapon against people that need our help and deserve to be cared for, with the youth and with the the generations that seem to be buying into this. I'm struggling.
00:27:28
S1: Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough. Let's. Let's have Hanna weigh in. I think it's I mean, this goes back to a little while ago, uh, when David Kinnaman, Gabe Lyons wrote a book called unChristian. And, you know, since then, I think there's been a pretty clear sense that one of the one of the things that younger people feel and of course, that was millennials for a while. And now Gen Z and Gen Alpha and more is that Christianity is, uh, is small minded, is often negative or used as a weapon and more and kind of speaks to, I think, Louisa's question or comment. So how do we how do we address that? I mean, you're trying to cast a positive vision and, you know, talking I like your phrase about about, you know, that you're you're I don't know that you can give the phrase again, discover the wrong they were born to make right with the strategy you set in motion. Um, but talk to us a little bit about how we help people to understand Christianity differently.
00:28:19
S2: Sure. Well, Luis, I first want to just honor and say, I see your heart. And I'm so, um, deeply impacted just to hear your desire. It feels for the next generation to truly experience who Jesus really is. And I believe that that's the opportunity. I notice that when young people are introduced to Jesus, there is this excitement. And I feel that a lot of young people are actually really intrigued to learn more about who Jesus is. I'll share a quick story. I was on a plane back from a conference where I was speaking, and I got on this plane and I was headed back to Chicago, and I happened to sit next to this cool, cool girl. I mean, she was, uh, mid 20s, a snowboarder. She just finished a snowboard trip. She had pink hair. She was just really cool. And I got to start a conversation with her and learn about her. And after a little bit, she asked me about what I do. And so naturally, I told her a little bit about what I do and it came up that I love Jesus and I love the church. I started to share with her my love for Jesus and why I do, and a little bit of what I believe the church is all about. And it was so interesting. Excuse me. She got silent for a minute and she looked back and and she said, you know, that's that vision that you're talking about. That vision of loving people and caring for the poor. That's not really what I've heard about when I've heard about the church. And I was sobered to hear that, but truly not surprised, as you were saying. It's something that we hear often. But what she said next was even more interesting to me. She said, you know, but I've heard about your Jesus. And wasn't he the one? She said that cared for the poor. And wasn't he the one that loved others? And wasn't he the one that spoke? For people being unified. Wasn't that your Jesus? And then she finished with this. She said, you know, I don't think people hate your Jesus. I think people just don't really like your church. Now, we know as Jesus that the church is the bride of Christ, and it is hard to hear it said like that. And yet, I think it's also an opportunity for us to listen to the next generation and hear that maybe they've been told the wrong narrative. And while we cannot fix all of that in one day or one year, even we can start with ourselves. And so I just want to encourage you that even if it feels hopeless, even if it feels frustrating, I would encourage you continue to live in a way that you feel reflects Jesus. Love those around you. Care for the poor. Feed the hungry. Do those things. And it might not be millions of young people, but there might be 1 or 2 young people that witness your life and are more intrigued because of your life and want to learn more about Jesus. One of the things my husband and I say, we live in the city of Chicago. We live in an apartment building with a lot of diverse people, a lot of young people that believe very different things. And one of our goals is in that building. We want our neighbors to know that there is someone in that building that loves Jesus that also loves them. And we want them to feel that and know that and wrestle with what that means for their life. And we've seen it spark questions, and we've got to have amazing conversations with young people about who Jesus is, because they've experienced love from people who also love Jesus.
00:32:20
S1: Yeah. That's so good. It's so good. You know, I do think it's a question. Luis, thank you for your call. Um, I'm trying to figure out to, you know, one of the things that people tend to do, and I think it's a very common thing that people, you know, really are intrigued by Jesus, but turned off by the church. And I get that. I mean, and this goes back, this is a Gen X kind of thing. This is Dan Kimball. They love Jesus, but they don't like the church is a very, very common thing. And so so I think that's a recurring theme. And and for me, I don't really feel the need when I'm sharing the gospel to, to address every thing the church has done wrong. I'm like, hey, let's look more at Jesus. Let's read the Gospel of John, see what he said, see what he taught, see who he was. The challenge is, you know, every everybody, regardless of generation, tends to make Jesus in their own image. And so they like this Jesus who never said some of the hard things that he said, you know, who never you know, I mean, Christians are now outside of mainstream culture on so many issues. So how do you try to navigate that, both acknowledging that you're calling young people. And again you can find out more about what Hannah's doing at go to live.com. We got the link there for Generation Distinct. But you know it's discovered the wrong. They were they were born to make right with a strategy set in motion I love that. So but at the same time, there are things that that Christians believe that now are sort of outside mainstream culture that might be offensive to that, to that Gen Alpha person. Um, how do you how do you get to those hard truths? I'm guessing not at first, but how do you how do you get there? How do you navigate those questions?
00:33:52
S2: Right. Well, what you just said, I think is so important. You said maybe not at first. I do believe that the next generation is so much more interested in what you have to say when they have a relationship with you. And I think there are moments where we try and address certain conversations from a pulpit, when maybe they were more meant to be addressed in discipleship settings. Now, that might not be every conversation, but I have found that I've had some of the most difficult conversations over a coffee shop table with a cup of coffee in my hand with a young woman who I need to say, hey, this life that you're living, there is a there is a spot right here that is not in line with God's best for you. Now, if she would have heard it from somebody that she didn't have a relationship with, who was saying on a stage with lights, or maybe scrolling through Instagram and seeing it on a reel, it might have been received very differently. But because I've been a part of her life, because she knows that there's trust there, because she knows I have watched her grow up and I have celebrated her wins. And because she has seen that I am trustworthy, I will continue to show up. I'm not here for her, only on her perfect days. I have earned this credibility to be able to to call her out and call her higher. And I believe that this is This is a great invitation? I think this is why discipleship is so important in Generation Extinct, our cohorts. We have 15 cohorts per coach or 15 young adults per coach. Excuse me. And so that intimacy creates an opportunity for deeper growth. I think there's a lot of amazing things that can happen when you're a face in a crowd. But I think true transformation happens when you're known, seen and believed in in a community. And it's one of our values that generation instinct is prioritize people. It's our very first value that we teach to our young adults. And it's true of our staff and our organization. And the mantra behind it is we want every person or organization to feel seen, known and believed in. And when they feel those three things, we have this opportunity to call them higher in a way that it might be really difficult to if we don't have that relationship first. So I would just encourage those conversations must happen. It's part of the sanctification process, but I would consider whether it's a pulpit conversation or a discipleship conversation.
00:36:17
S1: Yeah, good, good, good. And we're going to continue our conversation as well. And I want to swing back to that as well, because I want to figure out how we have clarity. I think clarity is kindness. How do we have clarity around those issues. But let me just open it up for your calls as well. Our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again that's (877) 548-3675. You go to Live.com. You can click on the link go to Generation Distinct. Didn't mean to rhyme there, but I did. We're going to continue our conversation with Hannah and your calls in just a moment. And we're back. One more segment here of really some, I think, helpful conversations around engaging and understanding the next generation. Your time to get on the line is now (877) 548-3675. Again, that's 3675. Our guest, Hannah Gronowski Barnett, and she leads generation Distinct. Again go to Ed Stetzer Live.com and you can see all the information about what she's doing over there as well. All right. Let's go to Michael in Dayton, Ohio for our next call. Michael, you're live on the air. Go right ahead.
00:37:30
S5: Yes. Thank you for your program. Uh, born in 1949, after World War two. I'm a boomer. And what I wanted to know is what resources are out there where I can read up on the differences of the different generations and what's important to them, and how to reach them.
00:37:52
S1: That's a good question. Hannah, I don't know that I have a bibliography. I know of a couple of books that are sort of famous, um, that and and of course, Cara Powells work and others. But what do you think? What resources do you recommend?
00:38:03
S2: Well, I first want to just say thank you for wanting to learn. I think that's incredibly humble of you. And I really just admire that decision. Absolutely. I would say my favorite resources are absolutely the resources that Barnett has been putting out over the last few years. I think they do a fantastic job of showing different realities for different generations. I would also absolutely recommend the Outreach Magazine column that I'm getting to do in partnership with them. We're sharing a little bit about some of the different generations, but there are there are a lot of unique resources, um, of different people who are kind of leaning in. This is something that we're doing a lot more of at Generation Distinct. You can go to Generation Consulting, and we're releasing more articles specifically around the differences in how you can better understand the next generation. Um, another person that I would, um, connect you to, um, and just encourage you to look into with. Excuse me. Absolutely. be Kara Powell. Um, she has some really great, uh, work as well. Um, but there's also a fantastic resource I would highly recommend. And interestingly enough, I do not have the individual's name. But if you Google this, you'll be able to find it. There's this concept of the four questions that a lot of researchers have found that there are these four primary questions that individuals will ask. And these four questions get rotated every four generations. A questions like what is true? What is good? What is beautiful? And these generations are really cycling through these questions, uh, every, every four generations. And so, uh, that resource I think is really helpful as well.
00:39:54
S1: Yeah, I think that's I think that's the work by Byron Katie, um, is the one that goes through. And the questions are is it true? Can you absolutely know, is it true? How do you react? Do you believe you thought, uh, who would you be without the thought? I think that's that's and again, very, very helpful as well. Also there are I mean, there are several books as well. James Emery White wrote a book that a lot of people read. I had him on the radio program when he did when he did it, and again meet generation Z understanding and reaching the new post-Christian world. But I also think it's worth noting that a lot of these books, you know, I'm not saying this is bad. And again, I thought that that James White's book was good and others were good. They're written by people who are my age or older kind of. And they might maybe PhDs or scholars. There's a there's a book called Leading Gen Z and others. Um, and I also think it's important just to listen to Gen Zers. You listen to young adults, millennials and Gen alphas as well. And and that's part of what we're doing here. And you've done you've been great just on the program, you know, kind of engaging on some of these issues as well. Um, okay. Let me remind people, we got one more segment. And this is the last chance for your calls. I'm going to take Rob's call in just a minute. But but our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again. (877) 548-3675. Rob, you are live on the air with your question or your comment. Go right ahead.
00:41:12
S6: Oh, thanks and blessings to you and your guests and everybody listening. I just have a quick comment. I've been in sales all my life, and one of the things that I attribute to success is keeping things simple. I keep hearing these long dragged out answers where people get a little bit confused and dealing with Gen X. There's a very simple, very, very simple technique. And it's three steps. And I'm going to skip the first step because I don't want to get in the weeds. I know you want to make this quick, but the second step is, you know, Jesus talked in parables. What is a parable? A parable is a story that you can draw a visualization to. Gen X loves visuals. If you can get to their visual mind, you can get to their heart. Okay. And then you simply close. So if there was a resource with, you know, five, ten, 50 or however many parables that you could, you could tell the story and you will see their eyes open and they will swallow it, because the reason they're swallowing it is they're drawing a visual in their own mind and their own heart, and then you just simply close the deal. Um, like I said, there is a first step to all this. Uh, when dealing with Gen X, but quite truthfully.
00:42:43
S1: You said Gen X a couple times. Do you mean gen? Do you mean Gen Z? When you said that, you said Gen X a couple of times.
00:42:48
S6: I'm sorry. The younger generation. The generation. Yes. Yes yes yes. Okay. Um, but but in any case, it's really very, very simple. It's not a long, drawn out answer where they need to sit down over weeks of study or anything like that. Get them into a parable that's going to open their mind that they're going to remember, and perhaps they're going to want to do their own digging from there. And if you can do that, you got them. Jesus has them. We have them. And, um, anyway, I just thought I'd share that with you. Keep it simple. Tell a nice parable. Draw a visual. Close the deal.
00:43:31
S1: I said like a salesman. I appreciate your call, Rob. So let's talk a little bit about that. So, I mean, the the technical term I guess would be narrative. You know, you're telling a parable. You're bringing people into the story. So is this a more narrative driven generation or are these I keep saying generation like we're just talking about Gen Z. You're not even a Gen Z or you're a millennial. Um, so, um, and by the way, you're my daughter's age. And how old were you when I met you? Like I'm trying to remember. How old were you when I met you?
00:43:58
S2: I must have been 23.
00:44:00
S1: Okay. All right, all right. So. So, um. So, so talk to us a little bit about that. Is this a narrative driven generation in a way that others were less so?
00:44:07
S2: Sure. I don't know for sure. I can't tell for sure that we're more narrative than others. And to your point, you know, Ecclesiastes is very clear. There's nothing new under the sun, right? And so, in many ways, I think Jesus was brilliant in that he knew that story was so powerful. I do think story has more opportunity for us to engage with now. I mean, you had books, you had the verbal story. Now you have movies and TV shows and all of these creative ways. And to his point, um, you know, really, I'm seeing a lot of people use really innovative ways to start to tell the story of Jesus in a way that connects with Gen Z. And I think the chosen series is such a fantastic example of that. Really. They're using the power of story, of narrative, bringing it to it to life in a very culturally relevant moment, utilizing the technology that we now have available to reach a generation with the most original, you know, beautiful core story of all time. So of course, I think narrative is is so important. And I think there are so many ways for us to use it to reach the next generation.
00:45:22
S1: Yeah. So good, so good. Okay, good. Hannah, I got less than a minute left. What encouragement did you give us about these next emerging generations?
00:45:30
S2: I would say this is an all hands on deck moment. I would say if there are leaders who are in an older generation who are listening, I want you to know that you are not done, that you are. Uh, your time is not over. We deeply need you to be engaged in what God is doing in the next generation. You are not being replaced. You are not being phased out. I believe the Kingdom of God is a multi-generational experience. We need the older generation. We need your wisdom. We need your guidance. We need your belief in us. And so I want to invite you, if there is a young adult in your life, to go up to them, to shoot them a text, to give them a call, to reach out to them and just remind them that you are for them, that you believe in them, and that you care deeply about who they are. And I would encourage you, if you're not walking with any young adults in their journey towards Jesus, to start doing that, and I believe it will not only increase their faith, but it will end up increasing your faith as well.
00:46:30
S1: So good. Hannah. So it's so fun to connect with you on the radio and to hear your voice again. Let me thank my guest, Hannah Barnett for joining me today. Also, thanks to our behind the scenes team at Moody Radio, my producer Karen Hendren, engineer Merle Saint James, and Titus manning the phones today. To hear today's program again, go to Ed Stetzer Live.com or go to the Moody Radio app. Remember, you can subscribe to this as a podcast as well. Ed Stetzer Live is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Hannah.
S1: Well, this is it. Steps are live and listen. Every Saturday at this time, we come to you with conversations about culture, about living faithfully, about the good news and more. And today, well, we're going to talk some about culture. We're going to talk some about generations and more. We're excited to have a guest that I've known for a few years. And Hannah Gronowski Barnett is a is the visionary founder and CEO of Generation Distinct. And and she has written she's in the most recent issue of Outreach Magazine, where I have the privilege of serving as general editor. And she works with organizations around the country to better reach and engage the next generation. We're excited about having her on. I'm Ed Stetzer. I'm going to be your host today. I'm the dean of the Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, and I am the dad of some Gen Zers. And so we're going to talk some about that as well and talk some about the generational challenges that maybe Maybe sometimes we we we have some bridges we have to bridge some of those generational gaps. So Hannah, thanks so much for joining us on the program today.
00:01:08
S2: I am so honored to be here. And you know that I deeply respect you. And so I'm I'm honored to be invited on. Thank you so much.
00:01:17
S1: Well, we're glad you're here. And we're we're glad to have this conversation. So so, you know, first, I mean, tell us a little bit about you, how you got into this work. You've got this, uh, you've got generation distinct. You do some consulting company, but tell us about you and how you decided that we needed to engage the next generation. Well, your generation differently.
00:01:34
S2: Sure. Well, it really started when I was a teenager myself. I remember looking around at my generation and starting to see for myself the statistics that I would imagine many of the listeners are somewhat familiar with. I had a lot of, I'll say, unfair advantages in my life. I was given a fantastic church to be a part of. I was raised in a family of people who taught me about Jesus, and by the time I was in my late teens, I had kind of come to this place in my life where I wanted to follow Jesus, and not just in a passive way, but in a really active way. And the more that I studied the stories of Jesus, the more that I started to see that it seemed that the closer people got to Jesus, the more they were invited into this life that was anything but safe. It was, in fact, most of the times risky and sacrificial. And he invited them to really give up their lives to make a lasting impact in the world and read the gospel to the ends of the earth. And that, as a teenager, intrigued me, right? It got me so excited. And I was curious when I noticed a lot of my friends and peers walking away from the church. So I started to ask them some questions of where are you going and why are you leaving? And the common narrative I heard over and over was that they wanted to go change the world, make an impact, fight for justice, do good work in the world. But for some reason, there is this disconnect between them believing that they they couldn't do that within the walls of the church, while at the same time what I had been taught, which is that the only reason we actually want to create change in the world is because we're made in the image of a redemptive, restorative God. And so this started to spark this question of what if the next generation's longing to make an impact could actually be brought to the person of Jesus? How would that change? And so it really developed into something that we now say about generation distinct, which is that we want to use conversations the next generation is already having around passion, purpose and justice to bring them bring them into conversations about Jesus, the gospel, and the Great Commission. Again, what started as a dream when I was 16 then continued to grow. And today. We're a global organization that that we do that. And the way that we do it in the next generation's language is we tell young adults, we're going to help you discover the wrong. You were born to make right with a strategy to set it in motion. And once they go through our experience where we help them identify their purpose. We help them connect that with the mission of Jesus in the world, the most important cause we could ever give our lives to. And then we watch these young adults get sent out. And we call them innovative missionaries, young adults who are going into every sphere of society, but bringing the gospel with them into really in those spaces of really fresh and innovative ways.
00:04:44
S1: So good, so good. And just so you know, to our listeners, though, we actually do hear the background noise and we're working on that. And but we're so glad to have this conversation with Hannah. Also to want to remind you that we are going to take your calls. Maybe you've got questions about the next generation understanding and engaging the next generation. 87754836758775483675. We're talking to Hannah Gronowski Barnett. Excuse me. And Hannah is again working in engaging in the next generation. I mean, I'm, I'm a Gen Xer. We're the generation that nobody cares about. Hannah. Because you go from the boomers. Everyone cared about. Millennials were cool Gen Z and then and then, you know, subsequent generations. But you know, so I'm the age of I mean, I know your mom, you know, I'm the age of your parents, and a lot of people who are listening are probably my age as well. And so we're looking at the next generation and we're like, is there is there hope here? I mean, it's are they dropping out of church? We see some recent data that actually shows that Gen Z are more spiritually interested. This is from the Barna state of the church data. And also young men are now coming to church. Gen Z, young men are coming to church. A higher level in Gen Z young women. Which which is both encouraging because a young man, but discouraging because a lot of women your age are dropping out of church at a higher percentage than any other group right now. So, I mean, what should we look at? The next generation Gen Z and beyond? We're just focused on Gen Z here for a minute. But what what should we look and say and think and feel? Is there hope here? Is there discouraging? Is it a mix or what?
00:06:17
S2: Sure. Well, first of all, I absolutely concur with you. I believe that there is so much hope when it comes to the next generation. And I think if we're not keeping our hope alive, we will move into despair. And over and over in Scripture it Jesus reminds us to actually have the hope and to carry that hope. And if we don't carry hope, we'll start to see the next generation as the problem instead of as a solution. This is something that I am so intrigued by with Jesus when we look at Jesus's strategy to start what is now known as the local church. We notice that he truly didn't go to the religious elite of his day. He didn't go to the, you know, the the wealthy. He didn't go to the influential. But when he was choosing his team of world changers who would go on to create the movement of the local church, he pursued a group of young people. And when he approached them, I think it's so helpful for us to look at his example of his strategy of how he engaged the next generation, how he invited them to follow him. And interestingly enough, in that moment he did not see them as the problems of society. He did not tell them to, uh, be quiet and just watch. He invited them into proximity with him. He discipled them. He challenged them when they needed to be. He corrected them when they needed to be. But he also empowered them. He sent them out to do this work. And oftentimes I look at the next generation. And although there might be differences between generations, to be sure, I see I see a lot of qualities in Gen Z and even in Gen Alpha coming after them that I also see in the early stages of the church, in the very disciples who started this movement, in these young teenagers and 20 somethings, this willing to sacrifice for something bigger than themselves, this, this longing to do something with their lives that matter. This, this grittiness, this resolve, this vision. And I actually believe that the next generation is not the greatest threat to the American church. I believe it can be the greatest invitation back to what the original church was always meant to look like.
00:08:44
S1: Yeah, and I hope that's true. I mean, I do want to. I see signs of hope. I was just I'm actually here in Hawaii. We're broadcasting today, and I just spoke to several hundred pastors yesterday. I'm launching I'm launching a tour. I got a sprinter van, and Don and I are driving around the country doing pastors and leader conferences. It's really I'm now living in a van down by the river. Well, we didn't take the van to Hawaii, to be honest, but, um, but it's it's been sort of fun, but I was just with several hundred pastors. We launched this tour. It's a biola.edu lead the way. If anyone wants to kind of join one of our tour stops. But anyway, we talked a lot about the next generation and a lot of Gen Zers were there. Not so many gen alphas, but a lot of Gen Zers were there and really talked about some of the distinction in difference. But there are I mean, there are similarities. There are differences. You know, we we can and let's talk about some of those as well. Like, for example, we know that digital natives is a thing. We know that diversity is a thing. I mean, just kind of unpack some of the differences that you teach companies and churches and denominations about some of the differences generationally.
00:09:45
S2: Sure, sure. I think it's really important whenever we're talking about the differences, I recognize as a 20 something myself that sometimes when I walk in a room or I'm sharing, I can I can acknowledge that there might be apprehension in the hearts or minds of the leaders I'm speaking to. And I want to acknowledge that and honor that, because there are some of the negative stereotypes of young people that, let's just be honest, are very well warranted. They've been earned. There are flaky nephews and commitment problems and disrespect and lack of work ethic. Those things are all true. And so I'm certainly not the person coming in here claiming that the next generation is the solution to all things, and that they've got everything figured out. And the next generation needs to learn how to adjust to them by any means. Um, however, I do find that it's helpful to understand, to be able to have some tools in our tool boxes, to be able to recognize the differences when they're popping up. So instead of creating division, they actually can create unity. As we were doing some of our research for the consulting company that we are launching as an arm of our nonprofit, is that we actually found that research is showing that 60% even let's just use the business world for a minute. 60% of workers are experiencing generational conflict, and 70% of older employees are dismissing the abilities of their younger counterparts. But interestingly enough, studies show that in 2025. So as of this year, Gen Z and millennials are now making up 75% of our workforces. So whether you're a pastor or a nonprofit leader, organizational leader, business leader, if you look in your organizations right now, chances are 75% might be made up of Millennials and Gen Z. So therefore, it's really helpful for us to understand some of the biggest differences. The other thing that I think is really helpful for us to understand generational differences, and this is not something that I've come up with, but I really respect the generational experts who identify the best way to differentiate generations is not so much by a year, but rather a moment in history. Right? So if we look at the moment that separated a lot of Gen Z and millennials, many people will say that that was nine over 11. If you can remember where you were on nine over 11, chances are you're a millennial. So for example, I'm the youngest millennial and I was in kindergarten when nine over 11 happened versus Gen Z, who that might not happen. They probably don't remember where they are at. My little brother or some of my young adults that I mentor, so they might not remember. And that's important, right? Because it's it's the reality is the reason that generations are different is not because there were different species, right. Or completely different humans, but rather because we're living in a world that is different, right? Gen Z did grow up in a post nine over 11 world. They did grow up in a world where they could have technology at the touch of a button, that could carry a computer around with them at all times. This has led to certainly some interesting differences, but I'll just share one that I think is really interesting. We see a big trend right now obviously towards individualism, and I think there are some really negative parts of that movement that we have to acknowledge as a church. But I think there's some really interesting parts of it as well, where millennials were often content with attaching themselves to an organization's purpose. Right. Think of Toms shoes as a great example with millennials. Millennials love being able to attach themselves to that cause a shift that we have seen in Gen Z, and this is a phrase that I often use to describe this is we know the quote of, you know, people won't care how much we know until they know how much we care. I would say for Gen Z, they won't care how much. Um, they won't care that much about our purpose until they know that we care about their purpose. And so what this can look like is an opportunity for us to not just invite every Gen Z to attach to our organizational vision or our purpose or our focus as a team, but really taking the time to understand each unique person's purpose and passions, whether it's something as diverse as they love cooking or they have this side business that they're really passionate about, or they're starting up a podcast on the weekend taking an interest in the unique things that they're building and then allowing them to talk about that, even in church or on our teams or in our workplaces, kind of can create this space where they know that they can bring their full self there. And again, a lot of these values are human nature, right? We want to feel known. We want to feel seen. But I do think it's interesting to see the difference between millennials and Gen Z. In that case.
00:14:41
S1: We are going to continue our conversation and your calls with Hannah Barnett in just a minute. You can call us at (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. Maybe you got questions about next generation gen Gen Z. Maybe you got gen alpha questions. Millennial questions. You can call us. Maybe you got questions about engaging your children and your grandchildren again (877) 548-3675. We're going to continue our conversation with your calls in just a moment. Hey. We're back. Its debts are alive. We're having a conversation about, I guess we'd call them young adults. I remember back when I was a young adult in the Stone ages, uh, and, and it was always interesting, Hannah, that that, like every generation seems to think that they're the next generation is is so remarkably different. And in some ways they are. But, you know, I don't know, at the end of the day that the boomers and the Gen Xers were that different. You know, we were, you know, the boomers, you know, and I'm an older boomer, you're a younger millennial. But, you know, basically I'm an older Gen Xer, I should say. And so we're pretty close to you're pretty close to being a Gen Z, and I'm pretty close to being a boomer, but it's it's, um, you know, we, you know, early on, Gen X was like the slacker generation, and that didn't really last. The tech boom came. ET cetera. ET cetera. And and then, you know, I do think, though, that some of the bigger differences have to be around the engagement of technology. I mean, we mentioned earlier the digital generation part and were that's such a driving part of of, you know, younger people's lives, though it is interesting to watch. For example, you know, my daughters don't respond much to texts and um, and I have to like, you know, remind them. And when I call them, it's like, why didn't you just text me? Because you don't respond to texts, you know? So, um, So so it but but there are I mean, I do think of the technology world as such a defining, uh, difference between Gen Gen X in my case and, you know, millennials and Gen Z and others. Is that is that just a is that a 58 year old man just just looking too much into it, or is that just such a big difference?
00:16:58
S2: Absolutely. I mean, I think it would be impossible to avoid acknowledging that difference, right? There's not something that comes into our world that impacts us on every level. That is not going to change how we see the world. And there are certainly some negative things. And I don't necessarily need to even highlight them. Right. It's almost that we we're just so aware of them. It's the comparison traps that we can create. It's the addictions that we have to our phones. It's the lack of connectivity and In true authentic relationship that it can breed. We definitely recognize all that. But on the flip side, I've also identified some positives, and I see this in a lot of ways that the gospel is going forth in really fresh and innovative ways that people can connect across the globe in ways that couldn't happen before. I would imagine Paul could have never dreamed that the gospel could be going over an airwave right now. When he was walking miles and miles just to deliver the news of the gospel. And even with that, in addition, I've also sensed and seen that this opportunity for technology, as we see it today, has created a sense of innovation in the next generation that I find really exciting. So, for example, at Generation Instinct, our organization, the majority of what we do takes place virtually. So we serve young adults all over the world. And the first step that they come into is a four month virtual cohort where we help them identify their purpose, connect that purpose with the mission of Jesus, and help them build a three year strategy to walk out that purpose. And all of that is happening through our app. All of that is happening through content that is being delivered through video or audio podcast style. All of that is happening through coaching zoom calls. That's all happening virtually. And we're seeing young adults in all these different continents coming together and strategizing of how they can each take the gospel back to their generations in fresh and innovative ways. And some of the innovative ways are so brilliant, and many of them use technology. And so, yes, there are so many downfalls, but I truly believe that if we're able to see the positive and coach young adults and how to steward it for good. Um, it can be an incredible, powerful moment for us to encourage young adults to utilize it, really for gospel impact.
00:19:48
S1: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we I think we see what that looks like as well when we look sometimes at the positive views of our next generation as well. Let me remind everybody that our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. We're talking to Hannah Barnette about understanding the next generation Gen Z and beyond. She works at Generation Distinct and really does consulting and coaching for different organizations as well. Again, our number, if you'd like to talk to her and to us is (877) 548-3675. Uh, Merle, if you could select if you could select Raj, we're going to go to Raj for our first call. Raj, you're you're live on the air. Go ahead with your question or your comment.
00:20:32
S3: Thank you. Um, I guess my question is how important is relatability in order to communicate to the next generation? I'll give an example. As a health care provider, I'm responsible for providing health information. But my challenge is how can I package that in a package that's easily digestible so that I can communicate and also get my point across? But I have to have empathy. I have to have relatability. And I guess is that how important is the relatability in the topic?
00:21:10
S1: It's a good question, Hannah. What do you think?
00:21:13
S2: What a fantastic question. And first, I just want to honor Raj. It sounds like you have the right heart posture in this. The fact that you just said those two words empathy and relatability. I just want to thank you for for caring enough about the next generation to want to lean in in those ways. And I would say there's a different way to look at relatability. I think we think we can either look at relatability as you have to be just like them, and that's the only way they'll listen to you. Or you can look at relatability as though you're willing to enter into their world. The first relatability I do not think is required. I don't think they want the people that they're looking up to to be just like them. That's why they're going to you for wisdom, right? So I think especially in the healthcare space, you certainly don't need to talk like them. You don't need to use their slangs. You don't need to dress like them. You don't even need to be cool. I heard recently, um, a leader that I really respect, uh, really be able to share that in this generation. Warm is the new cool, right? Being able to be warm. And that was our mutual friend, Cara Powell. And because of that, we do not need to be like them. Uh, but one of the principles we teach in our consulting company is this idea of relating through relevant language. Again, not speaking like them, but speaking to them in language they'll understand, which is what you touched on, Raj. And I would encourage you, one of the best ways to identify how they'll best receive that information is to ask them. This is something that we're seeing a lot of companies do, and we're encouraging churches, organizations, corporate companies and businesses to all do this. This is something that really large corporations are doing. They're they're creating something called a shadow board, where they create a board of young people. They might be employees, it might be people in the congregation, it might be interns. It might just be young people in your life. And when you're asking a question, is this content going to stick with the next generation? Are they going to understand this offering? Go to them. Ask them. Receive their feedback. And this is this is showing really high returns in fortune 500 companies. And we're also seeing a lot of value rise up in churches and organizations and nonprofits as well. So I would say you have the right heart there, Raj. I would encourage you identify a group of young adults, young people who can be your shadow board, present the information to them and ask them to speak back to you and hear the language that they're using. And that's how you can increase your relatability.
00:23:49
S1: Yeah. So good, so good. Okay. We're we're going to, uh, we got a little over a minute before the bottom of the hour. And so I want to before before we get to that, I want to just kind of squeeze in one comment for you for about a minute or so long. Um, when you look to the next generation, of course, now you're I mean, you're you're a younger millennial, Gen Zs younger than you. And then Gen Alpha beyond there. Are you seeing I mean, are millennial Z and Alpha. Are they are they tracking similarly or are they continue to be kind of such big changes between generations?
00:24:19
S2: Sure. Like any generation, again, if we're seeing generational differences as a historical shift, every generation will certainly be different. Right. There are Gen Zers years who are living in a different America, a different world than even the one that I grew up in. What they're saying right now, if you can imagine, I'm sure a lot of people would guess, uh, one of the the defining historical moments that will differentiate Gen Z from Gen Alpha is Covid. If you can remember where you were when the Covid pandemic started, then you probably are Gen Z versus Gen Alpha. And so just think Gen Alpha is is coming to age in a world where they can't even remember a world before the pandemic. And then 2025, we just had the first members of Gen Beta be born. And so I certainly think we'll see. Excuse me, differences. Um, but again, those differences are opportunities for us to learn from each other, which has great amounts of excitement for me.
00:25:15
S1: For sure, for sure. Ditto here. And I agree wholeheartedly. We're going to continue our conversation in just a minute with Hannah. And again she leads Generation Distinct. If you go to Ed Stetzer Live.com, you can find a link to Generation Distinct. Find out Find out more about what she does and how you can connect with her as well in her and her important work and her helpful work. And again, our phone number if you'd like to join the conversation talking about next generation younger generations. Our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. We're going to jump right back cause we've got some folks in line. We're going to jump right back to the calls. Again your chances to get online now. (877) 548-3675. Okay. We're back. Um, Ed Stetzer live is the program. And we're having we have today a conversation about young adults, next generation. Our guest is Hannah Barnett. And you can go to live.com through generation Distinct and the good work that she's doing there as well. Uh, we are also taking your calls. Again, we've got several lined up. We're going to jump in in just a second. Again, our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Let's go to Louise in Florida and let her jump in with her question. You're live on the air. Louise, go right ahead.
00:26:43
S4: Hi. Thank you. I have a question. Um, I'm really struggling right now because my faith is being used in my views as a weapon. Um. As a Christian, I've been taught that we lead with love. We. We feed the hope. We feed and we clothe and we care for each other and we love each other. And that's the the lesson that I've taught my daughter. So I'm wondering how we can combat all this negativity and using Christianity as a weapon against people that need our help and deserve to be cared for, with the youth and with the the generations that seem to be buying into this. I'm struggling.
00:27:28
S1: Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough. Let's. Let's have Hanna weigh in. I think it's I mean, this goes back to a little while ago, uh, when David Kinnaman, Gabe Lyons wrote a book called unChristian. And, you know, since then, I think there's been a pretty clear sense that one of the one of the things that younger people feel and of course, that was millennials for a while. And now Gen Z and Gen Alpha and more is that Christianity is, uh, is small minded, is often negative or used as a weapon and more and kind of speaks to, I think, Louisa's question or comment. So how do we how do we address that? I mean, you're trying to cast a positive vision and, you know, talking I like your phrase about about, you know, that you're you're I don't know that you can give the phrase again, discover the wrong they were born to make right with the strategy you set in motion. Um, but talk to us a little bit about how we help people to understand Christianity differently.
00:28:19
S2: Sure. Well, Luis, I first want to just honor and say, I see your heart. And I'm so, um, deeply impacted just to hear your desire. It feels for the next generation to truly experience who Jesus really is. And I believe that that's the opportunity. I notice that when young people are introduced to Jesus, there is this excitement. And I feel that a lot of young people are actually really intrigued to learn more about who Jesus is. I'll share a quick story. I was on a plane back from a conference where I was speaking, and I got on this plane and I was headed back to Chicago, and I happened to sit next to this cool, cool girl. I mean, she was, uh, mid 20s, a snowboarder. She just finished a snowboard trip. She had pink hair. She was just really cool. And I got to start a conversation with her and learn about her. And after a little bit, she asked me about what I do. And so naturally, I told her a little bit about what I do and it came up that I love Jesus and I love the church. I started to share with her my love for Jesus and why I do, and a little bit of what I believe the church is all about. And it was so interesting. Excuse me. She got silent for a minute and she looked back and and she said, you know, that's that vision that you're talking about. That vision of loving people and caring for the poor. That's not really what I've heard about when I've heard about the church. And I was sobered to hear that, but truly not surprised, as you were saying. It's something that we hear often. But what she said next was even more interesting to me. She said, you know, but I've heard about your Jesus. And wasn't he the one? She said that cared for the poor. And wasn't he the one that loved others? And wasn't he the one that spoke? For people being unified. Wasn't that your Jesus? And then she finished with this. She said, you know, I don't think people hate your Jesus. I think people just don't really like your church. Now, we know as Jesus that the church is the bride of Christ, and it is hard to hear it said like that. And yet, I think it's also an opportunity for us to listen to the next generation and hear that maybe they've been told the wrong narrative. And while we cannot fix all of that in one day or one year, even we can start with ourselves. And so I just want to encourage you that even if it feels hopeless, even if it feels frustrating, I would encourage you continue to live in a way that you feel reflects Jesus. Love those around you. Care for the poor. Feed the hungry. Do those things. And it might not be millions of young people, but there might be 1 or 2 young people that witness your life and are more intrigued because of your life and want to learn more about Jesus. One of the things my husband and I say, we live in the city of Chicago. We live in an apartment building with a lot of diverse people, a lot of young people that believe very different things. And one of our goals is in that building. We want our neighbors to know that there is someone in that building that loves Jesus that also loves them. And we want them to feel that and know that and wrestle with what that means for their life. And we've seen it spark questions, and we've got to have amazing conversations with young people about who Jesus is, because they've experienced love from people who also love Jesus.
00:32:20
S1: Yeah. That's so good. It's so good. You know, I do think it's a question. Luis, thank you for your call. Um, I'm trying to figure out to, you know, one of the things that people tend to do, and I think it's a very common thing that people, you know, really are intrigued by Jesus, but turned off by the church. And I get that. I mean, and this goes back, this is a Gen X kind of thing. This is Dan Kimball. They love Jesus, but they don't like the church is a very, very common thing. And so so I think that's a recurring theme. And and for me, I don't really feel the need when I'm sharing the gospel to, to address every thing the church has done wrong. I'm like, hey, let's look more at Jesus. Let's read the Gospel of John, see what he said, see what he taught, see who he was. The challenge is, you know, every everybody, regardless of generation, tends to make Jesus in their own image. And so they like this Jesus who never said some of the hard things that he said, you know, who never you know, I mean, Christians are now outside of mainstream culture on so many issues. So how do you try to navigate that, both acknowledging that you're calling young people. And again you can find out more about what Hannah's doing at go to live.com. We got the link there for Generation Distinct. But you know it's discovered the wrong. They were they were born to make right with a strategy set in motion I love that. So but at the same time, there are things that that Christians believe that now are sort of outside mainstream culture that might be offensive to that, to that Gen Alpha person. Um, how do you how do you get to those hard truths? I'm guessing not at first, but how do you how do you get there? How do you navigate those questions?
00:33:52
S2: Right. Well, what you just said, I think is so important. You said maybe not at first. I do believe that the next generation is so much more interested in what you have to say when they have a relationship with you. And I think there are moments where we try and address certain conversations from a pulpit, when maybe they were more meant to be addressed in discipleship settings. Now, that might not be every conversation, but I have found that I've had some of the most difficult conversations over a coffee shop table with a cup of coffee in my hand with a young woman who I need to say, hey, this life that you're living, there is a there is a spot right here that is not in line with God's best for you. Now, if she would have heard it from somebody that she didn't have a relationship with, who was saying on a stage with lights, or maybe scrolling through Instagram and seeing it on a reel, it might have been received very differently. But because I've been a part of her life, because she knows that there's trust there, because she knows I have watched her grow up and I have celebrated her wins. And because she has seen that I am trustworthy, I will continue to show up. I'm not here for her, only on her perfect days. I have earned this credibility to be able to to call her out and call her higher. And I believe that this is This is a great invitation? I think this is why discipleship is so important in Generation Extinct, our cohorts. We have 15 cohorts per coach or 15 young adults per coach. Excuse me. And so that intimacy creates an opportunity for deeper growth. I think there's a lot of amazing things that can happen when you're a face in a crowd. But I think true transformation happens when you're known, seen and believed in in a community. And it's one of our values that generation instinct is prioritize people. It's our very first value that we teach to our young adults. And it's true of our staff and our organization. And the mantra behind it is we want every person or organization to feel seen, known and believed in. And when they feel those three things, we have this opportunity to call them higher in a way that it might be really difficult to if we don't have that relationship first. So I would just encourage those conversations must happen. It's part of the sanctification process, but I would consider whether it's a pulpit conversation or a discipleship conversation.
00:36:17
S1: Yeah, good, good, good. And we're going to continue our conversation as well. And I want to swing back to that as well, because I want to figure out how we have clarity. I think clarity is kindness. How do we have clarity around those issues. But let me just open it up for your calls as well. Our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again that's (877) 548-3675. You go to Live.com. You can click on the link go to Generation Distinct. Didn't mean to rhyme there, but I did. We're going to continue our conversation with Hannah and your calls in just a moment. And we're back. One more segment here of really some, I think, helpful conversations around engaging and understanding the next generation. Your time to get on the line is now (877) 548-3675. Again, that's 3675. Our guest, Hannah Gronowski Barnett, and she leads generation Distinct. Again go to Ed Stetzer Live.com and you can see all the information about what she's doing over there as well. All right. Let's go to Michael in Dayton, Ohio for our next call. Michael, you're live on the air. Go right ahead.
00:37:30
S5: Yes. Thank you for your program. Uh, born in 1949, after World War two. I'm a boomer. And what I wanted to know is what resources are out there where I can read up on the differences of the different generations and what's important to them, and how to reach them.
00:37:52
S1: That's a good question. Hannah, I don't know that I have a bibliography. I know of a couple of books that are sort of famous, um, that and and of course, Cara Powells work and others. But what do you think? What resources do you recommend?
00:38:03
S2: Well, I first want to just say thank you for wanting to learn. I think that's incredibly humble of you. And I really just admire that decision. Absolutely. I would say my favorite resources are absolutely the resources that Barnett has been putting out over the last few years. I think they do a fantastic job of showing different realities for different generations. I would also absolutely recommend the Outreach Magazine column that I'm getting to do in partnership with them. We're sharing a little bit about some of the different generations, but there are there are a lot of unique resources, um, of different people who are kind of leaning in. This is something that we're doing a lot more of at Generation Distinct. You can go to Generation Consulting, and we're releasing more articles specifically around the differences in how you can better understand the next generation. Um, another person that I would, um, connect you to, um, and just encourage you to look into with. Excuse me. Absolutely. be Kara Powell. Um, she has some really great, uh, work as well. Um, but there's also a fantastic resource I would highly recommend. And interestingly enough, I do not have the individual's name. But if you Google this, you'll be able to find it. There's this concept of the four questions that a lot of researchers have found that there are these four primary questions that individuals will ask. And these four questions get rotated every four generations. A questions like what is true? What is good? What is beautiful? And these generations are really cycling through these questions, uh, every, every four generations. And so, uh, that resource I think is really helpful as well.
00:39:54
S1: Yeah, I think that's I think that's the work by Byron Katie, um, is the one that goes through. And the questions are is it true? Can you absolutely know, is it true? How do you react? Do you believe you thought, uh, who would you be without the thought? I think that's that's and again, very, very helpful as well. Also there are I mean, there are several books as well. James Emery White wrote a book that a lot of people read. I had him on the radio program when he did when he did it, and again meet generation Z understanding and reaching the new post-Christian world. But I also think it's worth noting that a lot of these books, you know, I'm not saying this is bad. And again, I thought that that James White's book was good and others were good. They're written by people who are my age or older kind of. And they might maybe PhDs or scholars. There's a there's a book called Leading Gen Z and others. Um, and I also think it's important just to listen to Gen Zers. You listen to young adults, millennials and Gen alphas as well. And and that's part of what we're doing here. And you've done you've been great just on the program, you know, kind of engaging on some of these issues as well. Um, okay. Let me remind people, we got one more segment. And this is the last chance for your calls. I'm going to take Rob's call in just a minute. But but our phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again. (877) 548-3675. Rob, you are live on the air with your question or your comment. Go right ahead.
00:41:12
S6: Oh, thanks and blessings to you and your guests and everybody listening. I just have a quick comment. I've been in sales all my life, and one of the things that I attribute to success is keeping things simple. I keep hearing these long dragged out answers where people get a little bit confused and dealing with Gen X. There's a very simple, very, very simple technique. And it's three steps. And I'm going to skip the first step because I don't want to get in the weeds. I know you want to make this quick, but the second step is, you know, Jesus talked in parables. What is a parable? A parable is a story that you can draw a visualization to. Gen X loves visuals. If you can get to their visual mind, you can get to their heart. Okay. And then you simply close. So if there was a resource with, you know, five, ten, 50 or however many parables that you could, you could tell the story and you will see their eyes open and they will swallow it, because the reason they're swallowing it is they're drawing a visual in their own mind and their own heart, and then you just simply close the deal. Um, like I said, there is a first step to all this. Uh, when dealing with Gen X, but quite truthfully.
00:42:43
S1: You said Gen X a couple times. Do you mean gen? Do you mean Gen Z? When you said that, you said Gen X a couple of times.
00:42:48
S6: I'm sorry. The younger generation. The generation. Yes. Yes yes yes. Okay. Um, but but in any case, it's really very, very simple. It's not a long, drawn out answer where they need to sit down over weeks of study or anything like that. Get them into a parable that's going to open their mind that they're going to remember, and perhaps they're going to want to do their own digging from there. And if you can do that, you got them. Jesus has them. We have them. And, um, anyway, I just thought I'd share that with you. Keep it simple. Tell a nice parable. Draw a visual. Close the deal.
00:43:31
S1: I said like a salesman. I appreciate your call, Rob. So let's talk a little bit about that. So, I mean, the the technical term I guess would be narrative. You know, you're telling a parable. You're bringing people into the story. So is this a more narrative driven generation or are these I keep saying generation like we're just talking about Gen Z. You're not even a Gen Z or you're a millennial. Um, so, um, and by the way, you're my daughter's age. And how old were you when I met you? Like I'm trying to remember. How old were you when I met you?
00:43:58
S2: I must have been 23.
00:44:00
S1: Okay. All right, all right. So. So, um. So, so talk to us a little bit about that. Is this a narrative driven generation in a way that others were less so?
00:44:07
S2: Sure. I don't know for sure. I can't tell for sure that we're more narrative than others. And to your point, you know, Ecclesiastes is very clear. There's nothing new under the sun, right? And so, in many ways, I think Jesus was brilliant in that he knew that story was so powerful. I do think story has more opportunity for us to engage with now. I mean, you had books, you had the verbal story. Now you have movies and TV shows and all of these creative ways. And to his point, um, you know, really, I'm seeing a lot of people use really innovative ways to start to tell the story of Jesus in a way that connects with Gen Z. And I think the chosen series is such a fantastic example of that. Really. They're using the power of story, of narrative, bringing it to it to life in a very culturally relevant moment, utilizing the technology that we now have available to reach a generation with the most original, you know, beautiful core story of all time. So of course, I think narrative is is so important. And I think there are so many ways for us to use it to reach the next generation.
00:45:22
S1: Yeah. So good, so good. Okay, good. Hannah, I got less than a minute left. What encouragement did you give us about these next emerging generations?
00:45:30
S2: I would say this is an all hands on deck moment. I would say if there are leaders who are in an older generation who are listening, I want you to know that you are not done, that you are. Uh, your time is not over. We deeply need you to be engaged in what God is doing in the next generation. You are not being replaced. You are not being phased out. I believe the Kingdom of God is a multi-generational experience. We need the older generation. We need your wisdom. We need your guidance. We need your belief in us. And so I want to invite you, if there is a young adult in your life, to go up to them, to shoot them a text, to give them a call, to reach out to them and just remind them that you are for them, that you believe in them, and that you care deeply about who they are. And I would encourage you, if you're not walking with any young adults in their journey towards Jesus, to start doing that, and I believe it will not only increase their faith, but it will end up increasing your faith as well.
00:46:30
S1: So good. Hannah. So it's so fun to connect with you on the radio and to hear your voice again. Let me thank my guest, Hannah Barnett for joining me today. Also, thanks to our behind the scenes team at Moody Radio, my producer Karen Hendren, engineer Merle Saint James, and Titus manning the phones today. To hear today's program again, go to Ed Stetzer Live.com or go to the Moody Radio app. Remember, you can subscribe to this as a podcast as well. Ed Stetzer Live is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Hannah.
